The Humongous Bigfile: all you need to know about HPforGrownups VERSION 1.3.2 -- 5 Jan 03 Latest update (further NW edits in JW's absence) includes: 2.5 Updated Hypothetic Alley links 2.6: Edit to note on message combining 3.3: Updated weekly chat information. 6.3 Updated FAQ/FA link 7.3 Deleted link to Jenna's website (now dead) 1. INTRODUCTION [GO] 1.1 Welcome Message [GO] 1.2 Getting Started: Finding Your Way Around HPFGU [GO] 1.3 How to Receive Messages [GO] 1.4 Default settings and spam [GO] 1.5 Legal issues [GO] 1.6 The Moderators, List Elves and Poltergeists [GO] 1.7 On-list Messages from the HPFGU Mods, Elves and Geists [GO] 1.8 Off-list messages to individuals from the HPFGU Mods, Elves and Geists [GO] 1.9 List Discipline [GO] 1.10 What not to do in your first post [GO] 1.11 How to get help [GO] 2. GENERAL COURTESY, "NETIQUETTE" AND HPFGU-SPECIFIC CONVENTIONS/POLICIES [GO] 2.1 General behaviour notes so you don't look like a Death Eater [GO] 2.2 Use the right list for the right kind of post (OT posting) [GO] 2.3 Proper Subject Headers [GO] 2.4 Quoting and snipping extraneous material from quoted replies [GO] 2.5 Subject-specific Prefixes for certain topics [GO] 2.6 Combining multiple short posts [GO] 2.7 Distinguish opinion & fact; If stating canon fact, give references [GO] 2.8 Banned Topics [GO] 2.9 Spelling, Punctuation and Grammar (and Proofreading!) [GO] 3. HOW TO PARTICIPATE FULLY IN HPFGU [GO] 3.1 HPFGU-OTChatter, our off-topic and chat list [GO] 3.2 Regional HPFGU groups [GO] 3.3 Weekly Sunday Chat [GO] 3.4 HPFGU Contests [GO] 3.5 Ongoing Polls [GO] 4. COMMON ABBREVIATIONS & SHORTHAND [GO] 4.1 General internet [GO] 4.2 HP fandom-specific [GO] 4.3 Fanfiction-specific [GO] 4.4 HPFGU-specific [GO] 5. VERY FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (VFAQ) [GO] 6. GROUP RESOURCES, FILES AND ARCHIVES [GO] 6.1 The Files Section [GO] 6.2 The Archives Group [GO] 6.3 HPFGU's accumulated wisdom: Fantastic Posts and where to Find Them [GO] 7. OTHER AREAS OF ONLINE HARRY POTTER FANDOM [GO] 7.1 The HP Lexicon [GO] 7.2 Other Grownup YahooGroups [GO] 7.3 Websites [GO] 7.4 Fanfiction Websites [GO] 7.5 Fanfiction YahooGroups [GO] 8. ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS [GO] _______________________THE HUMONGOUS BIGFILE_______________________ 1. INTRODUCTION 1.1 Welcome Message To ensure that new members adjust quickly to our rules, and to prevent the possible embarrassment of violating a list rule in their very first post, posts from all new HPFGU members must be approved by a Moderator, List Elf or List Poltergeist (for a list of them, [GO] here) before being released to the list at large. This approval or rejection process is accomplished very quickly as we have a large number of people approving and rejecting messages. When a post is rejected, Yahoo sends it back to the author for revision in accordance with our list rules. This system of Moderated Status has been a resounding success, and has kept our standards high and list volume manageable. The feedback we receive about this system from our members, new and old, is overwhelmingly positive. We encourage all of our new members to keep an eye on the email accounts they used to register with HPFGU, as this is where you will receive notification of any problems concerning any of your posts. Also, remember that if your post does not appear right away, you should give it time, then check your email account. Do not simply keep sending your message over and over. Please note that our other lists, HPFGU-Movie, -OTChatter and -Announcements, do not have this introductory period, though all messages to HPFGU-Announcements must be approved as it is a Moderated List. Please understand that this policy is by no means designed to discourage our new members from participating in our group. Each new member brings his or her unique point of view to the community, and it is this diversity of perspective, experience and personality that keeps the list exciting, interesting and fresh. We hope all of you will offer your insights and contribute to our discussions. 1.2 Getting Started: Finding Your Way Around HPFGU HPforGrownups is a YahooGroup-based community. Yahoo! Groups was formed when Yahoo took over eGroups in March 2001, and is a mailing list service -- but with a twist. Unlike traditional listserves, you can read YahooGroups messages on the web as well. HPFGU has four main groups -- HPforGrownups (the "Main List") is for book-related discussion only; HPFGU-Movie, for all things movie-related; HPFGU-Announcements for announcements of new sites, merchandise, etc.; and HPFGU-OTChatter for off-topic discussion of just about anything. We also have the HPFGU-Convention list, which is planning our first conference, various regional groups such as HPFGU-NewYork, HPFGU-London, HPFGU-Germany, HP4GU-GreatLakes, HP4GU-Florida and many others. HPforGrownups-Chatscripts contains the transcripts of some of our older Sunday Chat sessions plus chat instructions, and HPforGrownups-Archives contains the searchable archived messages prior to our move to eGroups (YahooGroups' predecessor). All these groups can be found through the HPFGU homepage, at http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/. You'll note that some of the groups have "HPFGU-" at the front, while others have "HP4GU-" or even "HPforGrownups-". We're sorry -- they were created by a variety of people and are not standardised. Oops. Our bad. Links to these groups can be found at the group's homepage, http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/. 1.3 How to Receive Messages You can read group messages in several different ways. A) By email: messages are sent to your inbox and the subjects are prefixed "[HPforGrownups]" (or [HPFGU-OTChatter] for OTChatter, etc.). You can probably sort them into folders if you're using a decent email application which supports this function -- notably, AOL Mail does not. You hit "reply" or send email to "HPforGrownups@yahoogroups.com" to post. Remember, we often generate more than 100 mails a day. Be warned! B) Digest: you can also opt to receive digests of list discussion. Each digest is a long email containing 25 posts. The subject heading of each digest email will be something like "Digest Number 432134." Replying to something contained in a digest email is identical to replying to a regular email, except that you MUST change the subject heading from "Digest Number 432134" to "Lupin's underwear" (or whatever), or you will receive bubotuber pus through your email. C) Web View: many people like to read the messages on the individual list websites. This has the advantage of not clogging up your inbox, but the disadvantage that you can't download all the posts and then go off-line to read them. You go to "Messages" on each individual site and read them from there. It's fairly self-explanatory. However, if you are *particularly* irritated by pop-up and banner advertising, text-only email might be better for you. D) Special Announcements: This is like webview, except with the advantage that we can send emergency emails to your mailbox. Actually, the Mods prefer that people are on "Special Announcements", and will sometimes work their way through the list, turning people from Web View to Special Announcements. The Moderators will use the Special Announcements feature responsibly. We will only send messages as Special Announcements in the case of critically important ADMIN messages. Examples of this would be if a flame war erupts on the list, if we receive a cease-and-desist order from Warner Bros., Yahoo or someone else and have to move the group, or in a similar emergency. E) A Quick Note About Posts Disappearing Into The Ether: Please note that sometimes posts sent to the lists disappear into the ether. We call these posts "Eaten By Yahoomort". If your post does not appear within 24 hours (and, if you are on Moderated Status, if you do not receive a note to edit it) please re-send it. Unfortunately, at this time, there is no way to retrieve a post sent from webview that has been Eaten By Yahoomort. Sorry. *burp/cackle* F) Bouncing Ferrets/Members: If you suddenly stop getting email from the lists, and/or you receive an unsubscription message from YahooGroups, you may be "bouncing", which here means "email being sent to your account is being returned to sender". Apart from yelling at your email provider, the only thing you can do is to email the Mods at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/mods@hpfgu.o rg.uk and ask them to send out an automated reactivation message for your Yahoo account. 1.4 Default settings and spam The default setting on YahooGroups allows people to add you to their groups without your permission. This is being abused by owners of lists of disrepute, if you catch our meaning. To change this setting: 1) Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/myprefs 2) Click on the [Email Preferences] box, which is roughly in the middle of the page (if this doesn't show up as a link, you're already there). Click "Options" (far-right), and then uncheck the top box. You can uncheck the bottom box as well, but then you'll never get any group invitations and people will be unable to invite you to groups if you're having difficulty adding yourself. If you have any questions, feel free to email the Moderators directly at HPforGrownups-Owner@yahoogroups.com -- Yahoo Support is not the most accessible or responsive of support areas. 1.5 Legal Issues By posting on any of the HPFGU lists, you agree to adhere to the Yahoo Terms of Use located at http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. As part of that agreement, you grant Yahoo certain licenses as regards your posts. Further, in so posting, you also grant the HPFGU Mods the license to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt and publicly display such post(s) for the purposes of providing and promoting the various HP4GU groups and sites. It is a violation of U.S. law and the Yahoo TOU (http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/) to upload, post, email, transmit or otherwise make available any Content that infringes any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright or other proprietary rights ("Rights") of any party; The HPFGU Mods have determined that links to electronic texts (etexts) of any Harry Potter book and any file containing the audio versions of the books or the movie(s) may violate the Yahoo TOU, and have banned uploading or posting any such links on all HPFGU lists; any individual who posts such a link (without prior permission from the Mods, at hpforgrownups-owner@yahoogroups.com) will be placed on moderated status on the list where the link is posted. Further, any post which contains substantial portions of any article or book is likewise banned; links to any article, picture, book or journal are permitted. If you have any questions, please contact the Moderators at hpforgrownups-owner@yahoogroups.com. 1.6 The Moderators, List Elves and Poltergeists These labels are not interchangeable. They refer to three different types of person serving the HPFGU community in administrative positions, and each type fulfils a different administrative role. 1) The Moderators -- You may find references to "the Moderators", "the Mods", "the Mod Squad" and "the Moderator Team" around this document and the group. These refer to a group of eight people: Cindy C, Catherine Coleman, Elkins, Kelley Thompson, Parker Brown-Nesbit, Penny Linsenmayer, Neil Ward (Flying Ford Anglia) and Queer as John. These eight, as a group, make the list rules and administrative and policy decisions which govern the entire HPFGU community. They merge into a many-headed dragon when they speak as the Moderator Team, and the list members should tremble and obey. As the Moderator Team, they issue ADMIN messages and other policy clarifications from their Hexquarters. You can tell these messages apart from others as they are signed "For the (Magical) Moderator Team" and, if posted to the lists, usually contain the ADMIN subject header. Further, as Moderators, they send Howler messages to individual list members in situations where rules or policies have been broken. Howlers are discussed below in section 1.8 [GO]. 2) List Elves -- These are individuals who, for reasons best known to themselves, have agreed to help run the list. Their primary function is to welcome new members (or "Elflings") by sending them personal welcome messages and introduce them to the group and how it runs. They also approve posts from members on Moderated Status and help enforce list policies. Our current Elves are: Heidi Tandy (Heidy Elf), Sheryll (Rylly Elf), Jen Faulkner (Jenny Elf), David Frankis (Davey Elf), Luke (Lukey Elf), Gwendolyn Grace (Gwenny Elf), Dana Mahoney (Honey Elf), Dicentra Spectabilis (Dicey Elf), Judy Shapiro (Judey Elf), Pippin (Peppy Elf), Saitaina (Saity Elf), Tabouli (Tooly Elf), Mary Ann (Dizzy Elf, The Birthday Elf), Porphyria Ash (Ashey Elf), Kimberly Moon (Moony Elf), Pip Downs (Pippy Elf), Debbie Duncan (Debby Elf), Ali Hewison (Merry Elf) and Marina Frants (Filky Elf) List Elves never speak as a group on-list. They do not, in general, send ADMIN messages, although if the Mods are unavailable or have asked an Elf to send an ADMIN, they can do so. They interact one-on-one with their own Elfling (or if an Elf is unavailable, another Elf might step in to help out a new member by reminding them of list policies or rules or offering to answer their questions). This interaction is always conducted off-list and can range from a polite email to a full-blown Howler. C) Poltergeists -- Geists are former Mods or Elves who have remained as advisors to the admin team on the basis of past contribution to the HPFGU community. Geists step in on rare occasions when a situation arises where no real policy or rule has *technically* been broken, but the need for a response is felt by an individual Geist. "Water balloon" communications from them are not official but are instead useful pieces of advice from long-standing, respected members of the community and act to reinforce the community's atmosphere, operation and traditions. They can also approve pending messages. The Geists are: Steve Vander Ark (Steve, Keeper of the Lexicon), Paul Kippes (technoGeist), Carole Estes (Carolegeist), Joywitch M. Curmudgeon (Contestmeister), Amanda (Amandageist), Amy Z (Amygeist, The Mod Formerly Known As Amy Z), Jen Piersol (ex-Jenny Elf), Jenny from Ravenclaw (ex-Smarty Jenny Elf), Jim Ferer (ex-Jimmy Elf), Michelle Apostolides (ex-Shelly Elf), Simon (ex-Simey Elf, Dr. Branford), Joy (ex-Joysie Elf and Disability Diva), Barb Purdom (ex Babs Elf), Ebony AKA AngieJ (ex-Ebby Elf), Jim Flanagan (Moderator Emeritus) and Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, and erstwhile Moderator) D) All of these administrators are approachable and welcome comments, questions, and chocolate. You can contact the Mods and Elves together at HPforGrownups-Owner@yahoogroups.com. 1.7 On-list Messages from the HPFGU Mods, Elves and Geists 1) ADMIN messages are issued from the Moderator Team. They always have the prefix "ADMIN" in the subject line. ADMINs must be obeyed. When the Moderator Team says in an ADMIN that something is off-topic, a banned topic, or should be on another list, listen to them. As stated above, the rules are the foundations on which HPFGU is built and abiding by them allows everyone to concentrate on the real reason we're here: our love for the books. Members should not query an ADMIN message on-list. HPFGU, like many communities, discourages making community policy in a public forum as this tends to be divisive. If you have a question, comment, complaint or criticism of an ADMIN message or any policy, please contact the Mods and Elves at HPforGrownups-owner@yahoogroups.com. At times, Elves may step in on behalf of the Mods to deal with time-critical issues (like flame wars, copyright infringement, and so forth). These messages will contain the ADMIN header and should be obeyed as if the Mods themselves were sending them. 2) "Water balloons" are informal communications from Geists which are *not* individually approved by the Moderator Team and should therefore not be deemed "official communications". Geists throw these when they feel that an unofficial note would be more appropriate than an official elf note or Howler. Situations where this would occur include when a member does something not technically in violation of the letter of list rules, but contradictory to their spirit, or where the Geist can see that someone is heading down a road which could lead to an on-list gaffe. Think of them as admonishments from a kindly grandmother or a quick tap on the shoulder and whisper in the ear from a good friend. 3) Remember that Moderators, List Elves and Poltergeists are also list members themselves, and can and do post on list threads of interest to them. When they are speaking as themselves and not in an official capacity, their theories and threads are fair game for debate. When they are speaking for themselves, they will usually sign off with their own name and not (in the case of the Mods) "For the (Magical) Moderator Team", (in the case of the Elves) using their Elf Name. Geists are a special situation as their "-geist" status is worn as a badge of pride -- but Geists will rarely post on behalf of the list administration team, and will make it very clear if they do. 1.8 Off-list messages to individuals from Mods, Elves and Geists Most times when a rule is broken, the perpetrator of the heinous crime will receive an off-list personal email from a member of the HPFGU staff. Here are the different types of personal messages you may get from the Mods, Elves and Geists. 1) Howlers are issued by one Moderator on behalf of the Moderator Team. They are formal official reprimands to a list member when policy has been broken or disregarded. They are sent offlist. 2) "Elf notes" are sent offlist by List Elves, and are not as severe or as formal as Howlers. These are used in situations where the policy infraction was neither glaring nor dangerous, and a Howler would have been excessive. 3) As above, an off-list water balloon is not a formal communication of list policy; it is *not* the same as a Howler. But, like any piece of advice, it's a good idea to heed it. 1.9 List Discipline We have a fairly simple policy of list discipline. If you violate one of our list rules, you will probably get a polite reminder, unless there has been an ADMIN message about that on the same day, in which case you may get a Howler. Common mistakes include: * Subject: "Digest Number 263" * Subject: "Snape's Cape" if it's actually about Hermione's teeth * Sending multiple short replies (in which case you will be asked to combine your messages) * Purely introductory messages ("Hi, my name is MonoMione and I'm new here!") * Asking a question which is in the VFAQ ([GO]), like "When is the next book coming out?". * Asking if we know when Book 5 is coming out. The answer is "no". Trust us, when it's announced, you'll *know*. So will the VFAQ [GO]. * Posting OT messages to the main list. If you persist in your naughtiness, and you are not in the introductory Moderated Status period, you may be placed on Moderated Status. This means that all of your posts must be approved by the Mods before they are released to the list. This works through a semi-automated Yahoo process. You will be notified if you are placed on Moderated Status. Once on Moderated Status, you can get off it again if you post for a reasonable length of time in a consistent, considerate manner, following the list rules. Immediate Howlers and/or Moderated Status can be achieved by sending spam to the lists, being particularly abusive or doing anything which could be construed as "illegal". If you accidentally or unknowingly send viruses to the list, we will place you on Moderated Status until you have the problem under control, and will attempt to contact you about the virus. 1.10 What not to do in your first post In your first post, you should keep in mind the following things: * Never, ever, *ever* send a solely introductory post to the main list. (We really mean this.) These are OT and, as such, should go to OTChatter. If one person jumps in with a "Hey, I'm Hermione2164 and I'm from Wisconsin!", it will (trust us, we've seen it) descend into "Hey, Hermione2164, my cousin Phyllida lives in Madison, do you know her?" and equal OTness and e-Howlers start to fly. However, you are welcome to tack a small "Hi, I'm Hermione2164 and I'm new! Love this group!" or something similar onto the bottom of a more substantial post. We really do want to get to know you. Heck, we'd love to meet up with you somewhere. But we want to do the getting-to-know you over on OTChatter and leave the main list free for book discussion. * Do not ask a straightforward and obvious canon question like "What is the name of Harry's fat cousin?" (the term "canon" refers to anything published by J.K. Rowling, and to a slightly lesser extent online chats or other sources where JKR has publicly stated something). Our members like to discuss interesting and thought-provoking ideas about canon, not serve as research assistants. Please consult your copies of the books for easy answers. If your books were accidentally used as kindling at the local book-burning festival, consult the HP Lexicon, (http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon). The search box in the back messages section (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hpforgrownups/messages) can also be helpful as another new member may have asked a similar question. Also, the VFAQ has many commonly-answered questions (http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/vfaq). If you still can't find the answer, please ask your List Elf. If s/he doesn't know the answer, go ahead and ask on-list. Please request that replies be sent to you privately off-list, however, as lots of us love to answer people's factual questions but very few of us like to read the other 499 answers which would make the list look like this: Message 42345 "Dudley." Message 42346 "His name is Dudley." Message 42350 "Dudley." Message 42351 "Dudley. Oops, I'd better not write a one-liner or the Moderators will come and turn me into a toad. Well, it's two lines now. Hahahahaha!" Message 42355 "Dudley." Message 42356 "Dudley, aka Diddydums, aka A Pig in a Wig." Message 42358 "Petunia." Message 42359 "Dudley." Message 42361 "Harry's fat cousin is named Dudley." Message 42362 "Dudley, you twit. Haven't you even read the books?" * HPFGU has been around for several years. We have analysed almost every aspect of every book. That means that, yes, we noticed the gleam in Dumbledore's eye at the end of GoF, and yes, we know JKR said that Mrs Figg who looked after Harry is Arabella Figg from the end of GoF. The VFAQ (Very Frequently Asked Questions file [GO]) deals with many of these incontrovertibly-answered questions, and if you ask them again, people and even goats may respond with funny, snide posts which may embarrass you. That said, we encourage people to bring up questions which have been discussed in the past. For substantive questions where there is no really incontrovertible evidence ("I think Harry is right for Hermione and not Ron, and here's why" or "I think there can only be 200 students at Hogwarts"), you should post to the list ONLY after reading the VFAQ [GO] and our substantive Fantastic Posts and Where To Find Them [GO] documents on the topic concerned. * Always sign your post at the bottom, even if it is with a pseudonym or pen-name, so people know whom they are quoting. * Please don't be offended if your post is returned to you for editing. This is quite normal, as we realise that there are many rules to keep in mind. Similarly, your post may be approved but a Mod may add a "Mod Note" at the bottom. This doesn't mean it's a Bad Post -- just that the Mod wanted to make a note of something (like "An older thread on this can be found starting at message number 346343" or "Though this post is on-topic, please remember when replying that OT subject matter should be sent to HPFGU-OTChatter"). 1.11 How to get help Simple. Email your personal List Elf, who will have contacted you within a couple of days after you joined. If you're an older member or you somehow slipped through the cracks, email us to request an Elf. The Mods and Elves can be reached at HPforGrownups-Owner@yahoogroups.com. If you have a question which you feel is for only the Moderators, they can be reached at mods@hpfgu.org.uk. Please, *use* these resources. The List Elves love getting mail. Contact them with *anything* you're not sure about. Technical problems. Book questions. Legal issues. If they don't know, they can find out for you. The Mods are the same. Really, email us! 2. GENERAL COURTESY, "NETIQUETTE" AND HPFGU-SPECIFIC CONVENTIONS/POLICIES HPFGU is a community of adults. Keep this in mind and you'll see that our rules make sense. We observe common netiquette, but also have a few quirks that we think make our community particularly worthwhile. If you want to be a valued member of the community, you'll need to observe them. 2.1 General behaviour notes so you don't look like a Death Eater This should be obvious: no flaming, no obscenity, no defamation, no netspeak (using "2" for "to", "4" for "for", etc.) no doing anything illegal. This includes copyright violations such as posting (or posting a link to) the text of the books, claiming someone else's work as your own, etc. If in doubt, *ask* the Mods. The Mods will have to step in and call a halt to the whole thread. 2.2 Use the right list for the right kind of post (OT posting) We have four main lists. Each of them is for a different kind of post: 1) HPforGrownups: the book-discussion ONLY list. 2) HPFGU-Movie: for any movie discussion, even if comparing it to the books. 3) HPFGU-Announcements: for announcements of new sites, merchandise, et al. 4) HPFGU-OTChatter: for off-topic and all other posts. There are quite a few other subsidiary lists, like regional lists, the HPFGU-Convention list, the Archives list and others, which can be found at the HPFGU home page, http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/. Please note that HPforGrownups is not affiliated in any way with the "Harry Potter for Grownups" YahooGroup. 2.3 Proper Subject Headers We are a high-volume list. It is imperative that people are able to skim through topics, choosing what they want to read and what they want to skip. Therefore, all posts to all lists must have accurate, descriptive subject headers. Sometimes a thread will veer away from its original subject -- a conversation about Harry's eyes and their significance could easily move on to how important Lily will be in the series. So, change the subject line: Original thread: "Harry's green eyes" New thread: "Lily's importance (was: Harry's green eyes)". This way, everyone can follow the threading pattern and move threads with you. 2.4 Quoting and snipping extraneous material from quoted replies Another result of being a high-volume list is that sometimes it's hard to figure out which message people are replying to unless they quote a bit of it above their own comments. See the example below (note that you don't have to type "From, Subject, Message" in the body of your message, and that points of interest are numbered in [square brackets]): ________________________ From: Vevelia Experienced-Listie Subject: Harry's eyes Message: Anal P. Lardbottom said, [1] > Harry's eyes are irrelevant. They are, after all, only eyes. > Let's not forget that JKR said, in the 13 Dec Scholastic Chat, > that there was no significance in them. [2] I agree. Harry's eyes have *nothing* to do with the plot, and are, in fact, a sign that he is a troll. I base this on GoF, chapter 65, where Hagrid says "'Arry, your eyes is like a troll's." (Ch. 64, p. 813, US hardback ed.) [3] Anal also said, [4] > Another example of this is in PoA Chapter 47, where Snape tells > Harry that "green is the colour of Slytherin, Potter." I think this means > that Harry is going to have to deal with the Slytherins before long. I agree to an extent. Since the Slytherins are supposed to be all evil anyway, though, I don't think his eyes have much to do with this. Just my two knuts. Dirk Hardslab said (paraphrase), [5] [Harry's eyes are irrelevant -- see 13 Dec Scholastic chat] I agree. In fact, this is a particularly strong argument because not only is it in canon (despite Hagrid's questionable reliability as a source) but in a chat as well. ~ Vevelia Experienced-Listie [6] ________________________ Notes: [1] See how Vevelia handily shows that the post she is replying to is Anal's. [2] Note her use of those pointy brackets (the > marks) at the beginning of each line to signify quoted text. Some email programs also use <> or "quoted material". [3] Vevelia has kindly referenced a chapter and page number. While this is not always necessary, it is often useful and good form. [4] Showing that she's still responding to Anal's post [5] Since Vevelia is paraphrasing, Dirk has probably been excessively wordy, and Vevelia could find no other way to concisely quote Dirk's message. Note also how she has shown that she's now replying to Dirk's post. [6] It's always good form to sign your messages with your name or pseudonym. Remember -- do NOT leave the entire message you are replying to as quoted material. This is likely to get you hit with an Avada Kedavra. 2.5 Subject-specific Prefixes for certain topics Because many members wish to skip certain types of discussion or material entirely, we have four subject-specific prefixes, which are placed in front of the subject of a message. They are: SHIP: (relation)shipping material, which deals with romantic relationships between the characters. You may only discuss SHIPs on the main list if you are using canon to support your arguments. If you want to say "I hope Harry and Ginny get together in the end," you should post this on OTChatter. FF: Fan Fiction (fanfic), stories written by fans in the HP universe. Discrete quotes, plotline summaries or other references from fanfic may be used to support a canon point on the main list, with a FF: prefix, provided the post otherwise complies with our posting rules. Discussion of fan fiction as a concept (relationship to canon, legality and so forth) in relation to HP is also permitted on the main list, with the FF: prefix, but note that discussion of fanfic in general or of particular fan fiction stories should go to OTChatter (or, preferably, an appropriate non-HPFGU fan fiction list or site [GO]). TBAY: Theory Bay (TBAY) is a presentation style for canon-based posts using fictionalized settings or extended metaphors. Such messages must remain on the whole rooted in canon and must be marked with the TBAY prefix. It's all explained in detail in the Hypothetic Alley document ( http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/faq/hypotheticalley.html) and in an administrative message (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/41876). FILK: A filk is a humorous set of words (canon-related) set to a well-known (we hope!) song. They are allowed on the main list, and examples abound at the HP Filks homepage, run by group member Caius Marcius. http://home.att.net/~coriolan/hpfilks.htm So, some possible subjects could read: SHIP: Canon justifications for L/S FF: Redeemable Draco of Fanfic: Why it works in Canon TBAY: George and LOLLIPOPS FILK: It's a Jolly Holiday With Harry See the "Common Abbreviations & Shorthand" section for a full explanation of fandom terminology. [GO] 2.6 Combining multiple short posts In order to keep post numbers down, please combine several shorter messages into one larger one. Obviously, the subject line will have to change, so you may end up with something like: "[HPforGrownups] SHIP: N/P forever! - Hagrid's coat - McGonagall's bra - The importance of goats in HP" This is just fine -- but remember, if you're replying to only one of the topics contained in such a post, you should make sure the subject reflects that! 2.7 Distinguish opinion & fact; If stating canon fact, give references It's very important to distinguish between your own opinions and canon fact. For instance, "Bagman is *such* a Death Eater", stated in a factual manner, appears like it is actually said somewhere in the books or by JKR somewhere, when in fact it's just an opinion. If you are stating fact from the canon or from an interview, you should say where it is from -- something as simple as "GoF, chapter 15" or a URL to an interview. We also very much encourage people to "speak from the I" when stating their opinions. This means that you should use phrases like "I think", "I feel", "I believe" rather than making outright statements. For example, instead of writing "Draco will be a Death Eater", write "I feel that Draco's background and actions so far in canon show that he is likely to become a Death Eater". This not only encourages people to challenge others' opinions rather than the person themself, but also makes people remember that there is a real live person sitting behind that computer screen and email address. 2.8 Banned Topics Certain topics just have something about them that stirs up the blood of many on our lists. Muggle politics is one of them, and is frequently reached by talking about Wizard politics. Parallels are fine (Ministries, Departments, etc.) but comparisons of, say, Ann Widdecombe/Laura Bush/Hillary Clinton/Clare Short and Voldemort are not permitted. Discussion s about the Holocaust often arise from discussions about Voldemort's reign of terror. Discussion of historical parallels is perfectly fine, including historical parallels to WWII in the HP series, but please avoid discussion of the Holocaust alone and specifically. Similarly, talking about religion is often a flashpoint -- particularly Richard Abanes' book "Harry Potter and the Bible" (discussion of which is banned on HPFGU). Book-banning is of course on-topic, as are discussions about religion as it pertains to HP canon, but just be careful. Avoid blanket statements like "Christians believe"/"Pagans believe"/"Witches believe"/"HP fans believe". It's simply not fair or accurate to generalise about groups like that, and it's inevitable that the Mods will have to step in and call a halt to it. If you have a question based on some of these topics, please contact the Mods or your List Elf, ideally before sending your question or comment to the lists -- HPforGrownups-Owner@yahoogroups.com contacts all Mods and List Elves, so please feel free to use that address. 2.9 Spelling, Punctuation and Grammar (and Proofreading!) This is the section where we sound like a bunch of compulsive, boring English teachers. Ha. We're not -- some of us have even been known to misspell a word every now and again. However, please write in an adult style. Bear in mind that HPFGU members come from many countries, and some speak English as a second or third language, making it imperative that all members use correct English. This includes using capital letters at the beginning of sentences, periods at the end, and commas in the middle to show phrasing. Question marks end questions, don't they? Oh, and please restrain yourself from using too many exclamation marks. They make you look overly-excitable. And there's NEVER a need for more than one exclamation mark at the end of a sentence. "!!!!!!!" will get you smacked very hard by a large broomstick. * Never use all lower case letters or, worse still, all CAPITAL LETTERS. It is a major no-no, visually jarring and using all caps is considered SHOUTING! * There are several conventions to give emphasis to your words. Some people LIKE to capitalise the odd word, some *far* prefer asterisks, others _much_ prefer underlining (bear in mind some people use underlines for _Book_Titles_). It's entirely up to you. * NEVER, EVER, *EVER* use netspeak. Some common abbreviations (see below [GO]) are fine (the BTW, IIRC, AFAIK type) but using numbers for words ("2" for "to", "4" for "for", "l8r" for later) and single letters for words ("u" for "you", "r" for "are", "b" for "be") are not. They make you look exceedingly juvenile. Don't do it. * Spell characters' names correctly. It's "Hermione" not "Hermoine", "McGonagall" not "McGonagal" or "McGongle" or anything else. Nothing (apart from netspeak) makes you look sillier faster than repeatedly misspelling characters' names. * On a similar theme, feel free to abbreviate long names to a single letter (i.e. HRH or HHR for Harry, Hermione and Ron, or SS for Severus Snape) but make sure we can guess from the context whether your D stands for Dumbledore or Draco, etc. Unless you mean to be derogatory about the characters, please don't use "Dumble", "D'dore" or "Voldy"...some people believe that they can look silly and juvenile if used in an otherwise serious post. * If you're used to forums where speed is important (chat rooms, role playing games, etc.), it's easy to fall out of the habit of proofreading. Here, however, your post will be as relevant in five minutes (or, usually, even in five hours) as it is now. * Please write with paragraphs, separating each of them with an empty line (like this section). This "white space" makes it so much easier on the eyes, as it is exceedingly straining to read long blocks of unbroken text. However, please do not include large amounts of unbroken white space at the top of your emails -- this wastes time and bandwidth for everyone. * Consider how your post will be viewed by others. Is the tone of the post angry -- or could it be perceived that way by others? Bear in mind that sarcasm is *extremely* difficult to convey in a text-based medium like email. If you are at all dubious about the tone of your post, leave it overnight and come back to it in the morning. Before hitting the 'send' button, please take a few minutes to look over your post and correct any typos, spelling/punctuation errors, or problems with sentence structure or capitalization. This will make it much easier to read and help in getting across your point. An automated spell checker might be of assistance to some people; while this catches some errors, it will not catch the difference between "form" and "from", "walking" and "waking", etc. If you have a disability which makes either formatting or posting difficult for you, we have a volunteer Disability Team who are happy to help work out the best and easiest way for you to participate in our community. If you think you could benefit from their help, please contact them via the Mods at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/mods@hpfgu.o rg.uk. 3. HOW TO PARTICIPATE FULLY IN HPFGU HPforGrownups really *is* a fully-fledged community of users. Many of us have even met up in real life! We find a wonderful sense of community in our members, and here's how to join it in force: 3.1 HPFGU-OTChatter, our off-topic and chat list When OTChatter was created, there were almost as many OT posts going to the main list as there were actual book discussion posts. Hence, OTChatter, the off-topic and fandom list, was born. It's for talking about *anything* (be wary of banned or controversial topics above, though -- [GO] to a list of them), from the Lord of the Rings to ill relatives to car crashes to food and drink. It is almost as high-volume as the main list, though, so make sure you are prepared for the email onslaught :) 3.2 Regional HPFGU groups We have various regional groups such as HPFGU-NewYork, HPFGU-London, HP4GU-GreatLakes, HP4GU-Florida and many others. Check the List of Regional Groups for a complete list (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/links/Regional_HPfGU_Lists_0009 99973547/) 3.3 Weekly Sunday Chat We have a weekly chat on Sundays from roughly 2pm US Eastern (7pm GMT, 11am Left Coast). To get to the party, go to any Yahoo Chat Room (for example the one on our main list), then type "/join hp:1" (without the quotation marks). You can also use CheetaChat (for PCs) or miChat (for Macs). Upgrades for these programs can be found here. 3.4 HPFGU Contests Keep an eye out for list announcements from Joywitch about our regular quizzes and contests. You can view past Contests (Logic Puzzles, Crosswords, etc.) by going to the Contest Page. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/HP4GU%20Contest Please remember that all contest entries *must* be sent to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/HPSmarty@aol .com and not posted to the list. 3.5 Ongoing Polls We almost always have member polls in progress, so please take a look at the Polls section on both the Main List and OTChatter: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/polls http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/polls 4. COMMON ABBREVIATIONS & SHORTHAND 4.1 General internet BTW: By the way LOL: Laughing out loud ROFL: Rolling on the floor laughing ROFLMAO: Rolling on the floor laughing my ass off LMAO: Laughing my ass off IMO: In my opinion IMHO: In my humble opinion IMNSHO: In my not so humble opinion AFAIK: As far as I know JK or J/K: Just kidding IIRC: If I recall correctly OTOH: On the other hand FILK: Song parodies using words/scenes from HP's world PoV or POV: Point of view {g}: Grin (note: the curly brackets shown here are often replaced with triangular ones or ::double colons::) {bg}: Big grin {eg}: Enormous/evil grin {vbg}: Very big grin {vbeg}: Very big evil grin ! as in Evil!Draco, Dead!Ron, Clever!Neville: From the early days of the internet, the exclamation mark is sometimes pronounced "bang", and used to attribute a characteristic to a character. Evil!Draco is evil, Dead!Ron is, surprisingly, dead. Many people use emoticons/smilies to show emotions. To properly read these, tilt your head to the left as you come to them. This list is by no means exhaustive, as people are constantly coming up with new symbols. Smiling :) :-) Frowning :( :-( Winking ;) ;-) Laughing :D :-D Sticking tongue out :P :-P Japanese/anime style smilies (read the right way up) are also popular, and include O_O (eyes bugging out in shock), ^_^ (smiling), o_O (one eye bugging out in bewilderment), and ;_; (crying). 4.2 HP fandom-specific HP: Harry Potter PS: Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (the British title for the first book in the series) SS: Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (the American title for the first book in the series) PS/SS: Used to refer to both PS and SS at the same time when the specific edition is not important. CoS or COS or CS: Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (the second book in the series) PoA or POA or PA: Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (the third book in the series) GoF or GOF or GF: Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (the fourth book in the series) OoP or OOP or OP: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (the fifth book in the series) FB or FBAWTFT: Fantastic Beasts And Where To Find Them (one of the Comic Relief schoolbooks from 2001) QTTA or QTA: Quidditch Through The Ages (the other Comic Relief schoolbook from 2001) Jo or JKR: Joanne Kathleen Rowling (better known as J.K. Rowling, the author of the Harry Potter series) DADA: Defence against the Dark Arts MoM or MOM: Ministry of Magic CoMC or COMC: Care of Magical Creatures MWPP: Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot & Prongs (The Marauders) 4.3 Fanfiction-specific terms [NB: The fanfiction works listed below can all be found at Schnoogle, one of FictionAlley's "houses".] PoU or POU: Harry Potter and the Paradigm of Uncertainty, (fanfic) by Lori Summers ASA: A Sirius Affair (fanfic), by Penny Linsenmayer and Carole Estes TSTNE: The Show That Never Ends, (fanfic) by Lori Summers DD: Draco Dormiens, (fanfic) by Cassandra Claire DS: Draco Sinister, (fanfic) by Cassandra Claire DV: Draco Veritas, (fanfic) by Cassandra Claire TIP: Trouble In Paradise, (fanfic) by Ebony Thomas, AKA AngieJ PL: Paradise Lost, (fanfic) by Ebony Thomas, AKA AngieJ SOT: Harry Potter and the Song of Time, (fanfic) by Queer as John, AKA Crazy Ivan SOC: A Surfeit of Curses, (fanfic) by Heidi Tandy DDO: Dracaena Draco, (fanfic) by Al TOT: Time of Trial (fanfic) by Al PS: Not Philosoper's Stone here, but Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, (fanfic) by Barb Purdom ToGI or TOGI: Harry Potter and the Time of Good Intentions, (fanfic) by Barb Purdom Canon: JKR's work: comprises all the books, including the schoolbooks, and sometimes online chats with JKR herself. Fanon: Common conventions in the fanfiction community -- for instance, redeemable Draco, or gay Justin Finch-Fletchley. Shipper: This term (from fanfiction) stands for "relationshipper". It means a fan who hopes to see a romantic relationship between two particular characters. It is accompanied by the characters' names or initials, separated by a slash. For example, an H/H or Harry/Hermione shipper is a fan who wants Harry and Hermione to get together. R/H is for Ron and Hermione; H/G is for Harry and Ginny. D/H is usually Draco/Hermione, while H/D is Harry/Draco. Slash: Another fanfiction term, which refers to romantic relationships between two characters of the same sex Het: The opposite of slash: romantic relationships between characters of the opposite sex. FITD: 'Farmer in the Dell' theory: A loves B, but B loves C, but C loves D… OBHWF: One big, happy Weasley family HGTG: Hero (or Harry) gets the girl. OC: Original Character: i.e. one created by a fanfic author OOC: Out Of Character: a character acting in a way not supported by canon. Some people think this applies to Slut!Draco and Gangster!Harry. (Weirdos. -Ed.) AU: Alternate Universe: a story taking place in an alternate Potterverse: for instance, one where Harry was sorted into Slytherin and not Gryffindor. Mary Sue: A blatant self-insertion into a character by the author. In HP, often the bubbly vivacious blonde American Transfer student who is so perfect and outdoes everyone and redeems Draco and wins Harry and defeats Voldemort and who everybody wants to Avada Kedavra. 4.4 HPFGU-specific For a complete list of the various acronyms like L.O.O.N., S.C.H.A.B.B., C.R.A.B. and L.O.L.L.I.P.O.P.S., see our Inish Alley file. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/database?method=reportRows&tbl=1 3 5. VERY FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (VFAQ) HPforGrownups has put together a list of Very Frequently Asked Questions. Please read them before posting, and especially before saying "look what I found in this book!" They can be found at www.hpfgu.org.uk/vfaq 6. GROUP RESOURCES, FILES AND ARCHIVES 6.1 The Files Section Many things can be found in the Files Section, which is larger than Mad-Eye Moody's trunk. (20MB, to be exact.) These include pictures, photos of various things, including list members, film locations and possible geographic locations for places in the books. There is also some assorted material in the OTChatter Files Section. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/files 6.2 The Archives Group HPforGrownups-Archives contains all the messages which would not fit in the Messages Section of YahooGroups, including messages from our old Yahoo Club. Thanks to Paul Kippes for the wwwizardry involved :) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups-Archives 6.3 HPFGU's accumulated wisdom: Fantastic Posts and where to Find Them HPFGU's Fantastic Posts series of FAQ-based topical essays can be found at http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/faq They cover a wide range of topics, from JKR to the HP world to the characters, books and fans. All members should read them -- they're witty, entertaining and informative (low-calorie too! -Ed.). 7. OTHER AREAS OF ONLINE HARRY POTTER FANDOM The online HP fandom is wide and mainly child-focussed. However, we at HPFGU know of many places where Grownups And Other Mature People are in the majority. You may find some names you recognise! 7.1 The HP Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/ The Lexicon is produced by a member of HPFGU and is perhaps the most complete resource to the Harry Potter books apart from JK Rowling. It deals only with facts from the books and interviews, and not speculation. It's a truly fantastic work and should be read by every fan. 7.2 Other YahooGroups SnapeFans (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SnapeFans) -- for fans of everyone's favourite Potions Master. (Note: is not currently accepting new members) Harry Potter Anonymous (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hpanonymous) -- General discussion list; has recently become active with new members. 7.3 Websites The Leaky Cauldron http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/ A news site for everything HP, contributed to by various HPFGUers including Melissa A. and Heidi Tandy. The Goat Pad http://www.geocities.com/aberforths_goat/ A great tool for searching all the transcripts of JKR interviews that are posted online, by everybody's favorite Typing Poltergoat. What's In A Name http://www.theninemuses.net/hp/ Harry Potter name etymology by the wonderful Priscilla Spencer Warner Bros Official HP Site http://harrypotter.warnerbros.com/home.html The Official Site: get randomly assigned a wand and semi-randomly Sorted into a House. Requires a high-end browser and Flash plugin. 7.4 Fanfiction Websites * Fanfiction.net (http://www.fanfiction.net/) is one of the largest fanfiction archives available. It houses all genres of fan fiction, and has a very large HP section, including many quality stories. However, be warned: it is a large archive and there is no provision in place there to screen out the many stories of dubious quality. * FictionAlley (http://www.fictionalley.org/) is the largest HP fanfiction site on the internet. FictionAlley screens submitted stories so that quality is what you would expect of fanfiction written by adults, and includes fanfic of all pairings, unlike some other sites, which only host Harry/Ginny, Ron/Hermione, Sirius/Remus, etc. There is also the excellent FictionAlley Park, a message board where you will probably find quite a few HPFGU people. * SugarQuill (http://www.sugarquill.net/) is primarily for fics pairing Ron with Hermione and Harry with Ginny, though adamantly *not* Harry/Hermione or Draco/Hermione. They also have some non-Harry-Hermione-Ron-Ginny fics, including ones based on Sirius Black and Remus Lupin. * Azkaban's Lair: (http://www.slashcity.org/~nezad/AzkabanLair.htm) This is an adult-only site dedicated to collecting stories pairing Remus Lupin with Sirius Black. Stories range from all-audience fics to stories with explicit scenes, and occur along any point in the timeline. * Werewolf Registry: (http://www.werewolfregistry.net/) This is a primarily adult-oriented site collecting all manner of stories starring or featuring Remus Lupin. The Werewolf Registry also features a linked EZBoard system to review stories or discuss the books, characters, and off-topic issues. 7.5 Fanfiction YahooGroups * HP_Fanfiction (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP_Fanfiction) -- run by HPFGUers Shay and Yael, HP_FF is a great place to go for beta readers (who proofread your fic before you post it), comments, and some great fics! * HP_Paradise (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP_Paradise) -- Paradise is a list dedicated to fics by several HPFGU listies, and fics are often released there before they are put up elsewhere. * ParadigmOfUncertainty (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ParadigmOfUncertainty) -- a list for discussion of fics by HPFGUers (past and present) Lori Summers, Cassandra Claire, Penny Linsenmayer and Carole Estes. * Cassie_and_Rhysenn (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cassie_and_rhysenn) -- a list for discussion of fics by HPFGUers Cassandra Claire and Rhysenn. * HP_Psych (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP_Psych) -- for discussion of "Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent" and its sequel, "The Time of Good Intentions", by HPFGUer Barb Purdom. * hpslash (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hpslash) and its sister, hpslash-fic, is for discussion and distribution of stories about same-sex pairings within the HP universe. Members must verify they are over 18 before joining, as the fics range greatly in terms of tastes, ratings and types of pairings. Note that while hpslash and Azkaban's Lair are the only dedicated slash groups/sites on this brief list, many other sites and groups we list here are slash-friendly, including Fanfiction.net, FictionAlley, HP_Paradise and Cassie_and_Rhysenn. 8. ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS The principal author and editor of this document is Queer as John of the HPFGU Moderator Team, who can be reached at HPforGrownups-Owner@yahoogroups.com. Many contributions and blatant nickings (and edits...) have come from various sources, including the wonderful HPFGU Mods, List Elves, Poltergeists and Members Like You. This file has been brought to you by the letter ÿ and the number 8. Do you have comments, questions or criticism about this file? Do you have a question not answered here? Email the Moderator Team at HPforGrownups-Owner@yahoogroups.com.