This message is a Special Notice for all members of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups In addition to being published onlist (available in webview), this post is also being delivered offlist (to email in boxes) to those whose "Message Delivery" is set to "Special Notices." If this is problematic or if you have any questions, contact the List Elves at (minus that extra space) HPforGrownups-owner @yahoogroups.com ---------------------------------------------------------- After last chapter's discussion led by special guest Harry himself, this week we will, regrettably, be turning back to our listmembers to lead the discussion. (For the record, Ron Weasley was asked to stand in, but he refused, muttering under his breath about being "second best, always, eternally overshadowed"). --------------------------------------------------------- CHAPTER DISCUSSION: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Chapter 19, The Silver Doe The chapter opens at midnight, December 26th, with Hermione taking over the watch. Harry sleeps fitfully, convinced that he heard voices outside the tent, and finally suggests to Hermione that they leave early. Hermione, who also thought she had heard voices, agrees. Under cover of the Invisibility Cloak, they decamp to the Forest of Dean. After huddling around Hermione's blue flames all day for warmth, Harry takes the evening watch. He is unable to shake the feeling that something is different tonight. Harry dozes and awakes several times to velvety blackness. While searching for his hand in the inky blackness, Harry spots a bright silver light, moving soundlessly through the trees toward him. Stepping out from the trees, the light reveals itself as a silver doe. Harry finds the doe, inexplicably, familiar, and strongly believes the doe has come for him. The doe turns away and walks through the trees. Harry, instinctively deciding the doe is not Dark Magic, follows as the doe leads him into the forest. Finally, the doe stops and vanishes. Momentarily fearful, Harry lights his wand and notices a small frozen pool. Looking through the ice, he realizes that the sword of Gryffindor is at the bottom of the pool. After scanning the forest in a futile attempt to discern who could have brought the sword, Harry realizes he must retrieve it himself. Harry removes his sweaters, breaks the ice and dives in with, he supposes, true Gryffindor daring, nerve and (perhaps) chivalry. He manages to grab the sword despite the agony of the icy cold water, but at that moment the chain of the Horcrux begins to strangle him, and, expecting Death, he loses consciousness. . . . Harry comes to lying face down in the snow. The Horcrux is gone. He hears another person panting and coughing. When the person asks, "Are you mental?" Harry recognizes Ron's voice. Ron is holding the locket in one hand and the sword, which he had evidently retrieved from the pool, in the other. Ron explains that he had been looking for Harry for hours when he saw the doe, followed by Harry. Ron also tells Harry he thought he saw someone move between two tree trunks while he was running to the pool to rescue Harry. Harry looks but sees no footprints or other signs. The Horcrux is twitching and Harry concludes that the sword's presence has agitated it. He tells Ron that he should destroy the Horcrux because he retrieved the sword. Ron demurs, asserting that he can't do it because he's too susceptible to the locket's powers, but Harry insists. Harry opens the locket using Parseltongue. Ron holds the sword ready, but backs away as the Horcrux taunts Ron with his worst fears -- that he is nothing, that his mother would have preferred a daughter, or Harry, that Hermione prefers Harry to him. As the images inside the locket transform to an embracing Ron and Hermione, Ron, his eyes now traced with scarlet, finally plunges the sword through the locket and the images disappear. Ron falls to his knees, shaking, and drops the sword. Harry reassures Ron that Hermione is a sister to him, and reveals that she cried for days when Ron left. Ron responds by apologizing for leaving. Harry tells Ron he has made up for it by saving Harry's life, and they hug. Together Harry and Ron go back to the tent, where they wake up Hermione. Hermione responds to Ron's presence by punching him, prompting Harry to cast a Shield Charm to keep them apart. Ron is finally able to explain that he tried to return right away, but encountered a gang of Snatchers rounding up Muggle-borns. Ron escaped the Snatchers (with a spare wand), but by the time he returned to the riverbank, Harry and Hermione had decamped. Hermione expresses derision at Ron's tale of woe. Ron then explains how he heard Hermione's voice through the Deluminator on Christmas Day and used it to find their location, and followed them to the Forest of Dean. Only after a full explanation for Hermione's benefit of the destruction of the Horcrux (minus the locket's tormenting of Ron), does Harry remove the Shield Charm. Ron gives Harry his spare wand to replace the one broken at Godric's Hollow, Hermione goes back to bed, and Ron concludes that his return has been received as well as he could have hoped for. Harry reminds him of the birds Hermione set on him in HBP. Hermione shouts from her bed that she hasn't ruled it out, but Ron is smiling. --------------------------------------------- Questions 1. Phineas Nigellus learns critical information about Harry's location, which Hermione carelessly provides while the beaded bag is open. Has Phineas really been hanging out in that cramped bag all this time? Why is he willing to do this? 2. What did you think initially of the appearance of the silver doe? Did you perceive clues (either on initial reading or rereading) pointing to the identity of the doe? Was it intended, in your view, as misdirection? Was it effective? Does it seem odd that Harry did not attempt to identify the doe? 3. How long do you think Snape stayed behind the trees to watch? Did he leave when the sword was recovered, or might he have seen the destruction of the locket? How might Snape have interpreted this action, given that he was unaware of the nature of the Trio's mission? 4. The sword at the bottom of the lake is reminiscent of Arthurian legend. JKR is known for borrowing the stuff of legends and reworking those legends for her own purposes. Is that what happened here? Is Harry at all comparable to King Arthur? If so, how? And what about Ron's Arthurian connections, since it was Ron who succeeded in retrieving the sword of Gryffindor? 5. Why did it have to be Ron who destroyed the Horcrux? Wouldn't Harry have been able to destroy it just as effectively? If Harry had wielded the sword, do you think the locket would have found a way to torment him instead? 6. The locket tortures Ron, but it begins with an observation and a prophecy of sorts: "I have seen your dreams, Ronald Weasley, and I have seen your fears. All you desire is possible, but all that you dread is also possible." What does this statement tell us about Ron's character? And why didn't the locket just get on with the torturing? 7. What is the significance of the scarlet in Ron's eye just before he destroys the locket Horcrux? 8. What, if anything, do you make of the fact that the sword of Gryffindor was used only to destroy Horcruxes with a significant Slytherin connection (the locket, the ring and Nagini)? 9. As Harry comforts Ron after the destruction of the locket, he finally realizes, now that Ron is back, "how much his absence had cost them." What was the cost? How did Ron's absence affect their progress? How does his return change things? 10. Harry concludes that Ron's return went about as well as possible, despite Hermione's reaction. Do you agree? Why? What purpose did that exchange serve? 11. This chapter is outwardly about Ron, but in retrospect the subtext is all Snape. Is there a connection between these two characters? How are they alike. To what extent are their differences the result of circumstances rather than character? Debbie with thanks to zgirnius for her review and very helpful comments