Esteemed HPfGU list muggle:

This posting tutorial is designed to teach you how to correctly format your responses to other messages. As you will see, there is more than one acceptable way to indicate who said what: angle brackets, labels, and blank lines.

When determining whether your post formatting passes muster, the List Elves will apply the following criteria: "Is it clear who said what?",  "Is the quotage-to-comment ratio too high?", and "Do the comments follow the quotage?"

The thread you are about to read is fictitious.  No acromantulae, legilimens, or puffskeins were harmed in the making of this tutorial.
Original Message
From: "le miz" <les miserables77@x...>
Date: Tue Jun 8, 2004  2:35 pm
Subject: Harry's Sympathy for Snape

I was thinking about Snape's Worst Memory and I realized something important: Harry sympathizes with Snape.

That might not seem very earth-shattering, because we readers clearly see who's the bully and who's the victim, but how many times has Harry fantasized about torturing Snape?  You'd think that he'd be delighted to see his father, the hero, doing to Snape what Harry's wanted to do for so many years -- and probably doing it better than Harry could at this point -- but instead, he identifies with *Snape*.

Why is that?  I mean, it's true that Harry has spent many years being Dudley's punching bag, but he's also been tormented by Snape.  In the first chapter of OoP, in fact, Harry gets a real kick out of goading Dudley, who he knows won't retaliate while he's got his wand. 

What happened in the interim to change Harry's mind?  Why didn't he cheer on his idolized Father, beloved Sirius, and admired Lupin?  What led Harry to identify with the victim instead of the torturer when Harry himself isn't above cutting a bully down to his own size? (Remember the final train scenes of GoF and OoP with Draco et al.)

--Le Miz, who doesn't add a tag line unless she can think of something clever to say
Response 1
From: "livianwarrior" <lasmith33@y...>
Date: Tue Jun 8, 2004  4:57 pm
Subject: Re: Harry's Sympathy for Snape [1]

[2] --- In HPforGrownups@yahoogroups.com, le miz <les_miserables77@x...> wrote:

> I was thinking about Snape's Worst Memory and I realized something
> important: Harry sympathizes with Snape.

> That might not seem very earth-shattering, because we readers clearly
> see who's the bully and who's the victim, but how many times has Harry
> fantasized about torturing Snape?  You'd think that he'd be delighted
> to see his father, the hero, doing to Snape what Harry's wanted to do
> for so many years -- and probably doing it better than Harry could at
> this point -- but instead, he identifies with *Snape*.

> Why is that?  I mean, it's true that Harry has spent many years being
> Dudley's punching bag, but he's also been tormented by Snape.  In the
> first chapter of OoP, in fact, Harry gets a real kick out of goading
> Dudley, who won't retaliate while he's got his wand. 

> What happened in the interim to change Harry's mind?  Why didn't he
> cheer on his idolized Father, beloved Sirius, and admired Lupin?  What
> led Harry to identify with the victim instead of the torturer when
> Harry himself isn't above cutting a bully down to his own size?
> (Remember the final train scenes of GoF and OoP with Draco et al.)

> --Le Miz, who doesn't add a tag line unless she can think of
> something clever to say [3]

Has anyone gone back and counted the times Harry wanted to torture Snape?  Just wondering. [4]

Livia
Response 1 Comments
  1. This subject line might need to be changed if the body of the message does not match.
  2. Original post is quoted in its entirety.
  3. Sig line should be stripped out.
  4. Comments are *much* smaller than quotage. (A short question is OK as long as the quoted material does not overwhelm it.)
Response 1 Corrected
From: "livianwarrior" <lasmith33@y...>
Date: Tue Jun 8, 2004  4:57 pm
Subject: Harry Torturing Snape (WAS: Harry's Sympathy for Snape)

--- In HPforGrownups@yahoogroups.com, le miz <les_miserables77@x...> wrote:

> how many times has Harry fantasized about torturing Snape? 

Has anyone gone back and counted the times Harry wanted to torture Snape?  Just wondering.

Livia

Notice that Livia changed the subject line but included the old subject line to indicate that it is part of the same thread.  She also left in the attribution line of the person she's quoting.
Response 2
From: "JC Pinnock" <45jcp54@h...>
Date: Tue Jun 8, 2004  5:21 pm
Subject: Re: Harry Torturing Snape (WAS: Harry's Sympathy for Snape)


Go look in the Lexicon. rabidsnapefan [1][2]

[3]
--- In HPforGrownups@yahoogroups.com, livianwarrior <lasmith33@y...> wrote:
>--- In HPforGrownups@yahoogroups.com, le miz <les_miserables77@x...> wrote:

> > I was thinking about Snape's Worst Memory and I realized something
> > important: Harry sympathizes with Snape.

> > That might not seem very earth-shattering, because we readers clearly
> > see who's the bully and who's the victim, but how many times has Harry
> > fantasized about torturing Snape?  You'd think that he'd be delighted
> > to see his father, the hero, doing to Snape what Harry's wanted to do
> > for so many years -- and probably doing it better than Harry could at
> > this point -- but instead, he identifies with *Snape*.

> > Why is that?  I mean, it's true that Harry has spent many years being
> > Dudley's punching bag, but he's also been tormented by Snape.  In the
> > first chapter of OoP, in fact, Harry gets a real kick out of goading
> > Dudley, who won't retaliate while he's got his wand. 

> > What happened in the interim to change Harry's mind?  Why didn't he
> > cheer on his idolized Father, beloved Sirius, and admired Lupin?  What
> > led Harry to identify with the victim instead of the torturer when
> > Harry himself isn't above cutting a bully down to his own size?
> > (Remember the final train scenes of GoF and OoP with Draco et al.)

> > --Le Miz, who doesn't add a tag line unless she can think of
> > something clever to say

> Has anyone gone back and counted the times Harry wanted to torture Snape?
> Just wondering.

> Livia

[4]
Response 2 Comments
  1. The comments are overwhelmed by the quotage; further, it borders on rude.
  2. Though this is technically correct, it looks better if the sig is on a separate line.
  3. Both previous posts are quoted in their entirety.
  4. Comments must follow the quotage. 
Response 2 Corrected
From: "JC Pinnock" <45jcp54@h...>
Date: Tue Jun 8, 2004  5:21 pm
Subject: Re: Harry Torturing Snape (WAS: Harry's Sympathy for Snape)

--- In HPforGrownups@yahoogroups.com, livianwarrior <lasmith33@y...> wrote:
>--- In HPforGrownups@yahoogroups.com, le miz <les_miserables77@x...> wrote:

> > but how many times has Harry fantasized about torturing Snape? 

> Has anyone gone back and counted the times Harry wanted to torture Snape?
> Just wondering.

I just went to the Lexicon (www.hp-lexicon.org) and couldn't find anything.

rabidsnapefan

Notice the "nested attribution" style, wherein Le Miz's attribution line and her words are framed by Livia's attribution line and words. The number of angle brackets (>) indicates which words belong to whom.  The words always have one more angle bracket than their corresponding attribution line.  Also, instead of being abrupt (which some could interpret as rude), rabidsnapefan provided a link for those interested (a courtesy, not a requirement).
Response 3
From: "loony_loopy_lupin" <jasmineperfume79@r...>
Date: Tue Jun 8, 2004  5:29 pm
Subject: Re: Harry Torturing Snape (WAS: Harry's Sympathy for Snape)

Le Miz, who can't think of something clever to say, wondered: [1]

> how many times has Harry fantasized about torturing Snape? [2]

In Book 1, he thinks about it X times, ....

.... [Loon-worthy list of examples] [3]

In fact, Harry thinks about torturing Snape more than he thinks about Quidditch.

Loony Loopy Lupin
Response 3 Comments
  1. It is perfectly acceptable to move the sig line plus the tag to the top and convert it into an attribution line.  It is not a requirement, however.
  2. Notice how the angle bracket sets off the quoted text.
  3. The Elf who created this example was too lazy to go look it up herself.
Response 3 Alternate
From: "loony_loopy_lupin" <jasmineperfume79@r...>
Date: Tue Jun 8, 2004  5:29 pm
Subject: Re: Harry Torturing Snape (WAS: Harry's Sympathy for Snape)

Le Miz:
How many times has Harry fantasized about torturing Snape?


In Book 1, he thinks about it X times, ....

.... [Loon-worthy list of examples]

In fact, Harry thinks about torturing Snape more than he thinks about Quidditch.

loony_loopy_lupin

Notice the shortened attribution line and the missing angle bracket.  This could lead to confusion, but there are two blank lines before the comments to distinguish it from the quotage.
Response 4
From: "PotterSux.die.die.die" <22irc456@r...>
Date: Tue Jun 8, 2004  5:29 pm
Subject: Re: Harry Torturing Snape (WAS: Harry's Sympathy for Snape)

You went through all 5 books and *counted* the times?  Don't you people have anything better to do?  Sheez. [1]

[2]
> Le Miz, who can't think of something clever to say, wondered:

> > how many times has Harry fantasized about torturing Snape?

> In Book 1, he thinks about it X times, ....

> .... [Loon-worthy list of examples]

> In fact, Harry thinks about torturing Snape more than he thinks about
> Quidditch.

> loony_loopy_lupin
Response 4 Comments
  1. This is obviously a troll.  We don't know how he got in here. Such a post would be returned if it were moderated or Howlered if not.
  2. Not only is he rude, he didn't sign his post, he quoted the previous post in its entirety, and he put the quotage last.  Bad listie.
Response 5
From: "strangerdanger11011" <agent004@y...>
Date: Tue Jun 8, 2004  9:16 pm
Subject: Digest Number 9546 [1]

--- In HPforGrownups@yahoogroups.com, le miz <les_miserables77@x...> wrote:
I was thinking about Snape's Worst Memory and I realized something
important: Harry sympathizes with Snape.

That might not seem very earth-shattering, because we readers clearly
see who's the bully and who's the victim, but how many times has Harry
fantasized about torturing Snape?  You'd think that he'd be delighted
to see his father, the hero, doing to Snape what Harry's wanted to do
for so many years -- and probably doing it better than Harry could at
this point -- but instead, he identifies with *Snape*. [2]

Now me: [3]
Well, I think that Harry felt sorry for Snape because Snape was like a nerd in school and James and Sirius were like jocks.  Harry was probably a nerd in school, and he was always getting beat up in school by Dudley and his jock friends.

[4]
Response 5 Comments
  1. If you use the digest feature, you must remember to change the subject line.
  2. The snippage on this post is passable, but not ideal.  There is slightly less comment than quotage.
  3. The dread "Now Me" is a bad habit that many people pick up from other posters who don't know or don't care that it makes attribution less clear instead of more.
  4. Missing sig makes it difficult to know the identity of the post's author — or at least what to call him/her ("strangerdanger" or "agent004"?).
Response 5 Corrected
From: "strangerdanger11011" <agent004@y...>
Date: Tue Jun 8, 2004  9:16 pm
Subject: Re: Harry's Sympathy for Snape

--- In HPforGrownups@yahoogroups.com, le miz <les_miserables77@x...> wrote:
You'd think that he'd be delighted to see his father, the hero, doing to Snape what Harry's wanted to do for so many years -- and probably doing it better than Harry could at this point -- but instead, he identifies with *Snape*.



Well, I think that Harry felt sorry for Snape because Snape was like a nerd in school and James and Sirius were like jocks.  Harry was probably a nerd in school, and he was always getting beat up in school by Dudley and his jock friends.

strangerdanger

Notice that the quotage has been cut down to a sentence that summarizes the idea that strangerdanger responds to.  Extra spaces set off the comments from the quotage.
Response 6
From: "k3rry" <morefriendsplease@a...>
Date: Tue Jun 8, 2004  11:02 pm
Subject: Re: Harry's Sympathy for Snape

>--- In HPforGrownups@yahoogroups.com, le miz <les_miserables77@x...> wrote:

I was thinking about Snape's Worst Memory and I realized something
important: Harry sympathizes with Snape.

That might not seem very earth-shattering, because we readers clearly
see who's the bully and who's the victim, but how many times has Harry
fantasized about torturing Snape?  You'd think that he'd be delighted
to see his father, the hero, doing to Snape what Harry's wanted to do
for so many years -- and probably doing it better than Harry could at
this point -- but instead, he identifies with *Snape*.

Now me: [1]
Well, I think that Harry felt sorry for Snape because Snape was like a
nerd in school and James and Sirius were like jocks.  Harry was probably a
nerd in school, and he was always getting beat up in school by Dudley and
his jock friends.
[2]
Did Sirius play Quidditch? [3]

one-line-wonder
Response 6 Comments

  1. Notice how the identity of "Now Me" is no longer the author of the current post. Because the attribution line is missing, there's no way to know who said this.
  2. The previous message was quoted in its entirety, mistakes and all. Because one-line-wonder's e-mail program doesn't add angle brackets, it's difficult to tell the difference between the quotage and the comments.
  3. This one-liner would be fine (it's a short question) but unless people read all the quotage — and they probably won't — this question appears to come out of nowhere.
Response 6 Corrected
From: "k3rry" <morefriendsplease@a...>
Date: Tue Jun 8, 2004  11:02 pm
Subject: Re: Harry's Sympathy for Snape

strangerdanger:
Well, I think that Harry felt sorry for Snape because Snape was like a
nerd in school and James and Sirius were like jocks.


Did Sirius play Quidditch?

one-line-wonder

Notice that all of Le Miz's message has been snipped out because it doesn't relate to this latest question.
Response 7
From: "scurvy_cur99" <cranderson@y...>
Date: Tue Jun 8, 2004  11:02 pm
Subject: Re: Harry's Sympathy for Snape

Le Miz:
> I was thinking about Snape's Worst Memory and I realized something
> important: Harry sympathizes with Snape.

<snip> [1]

> Why is that?  I mean, it's true that Harry has spent many years being
> Dudley's punching bag, but he's also been tormented by Snape.  In the
> first chapter of OoP, in fact, Harry gets a real kick out of goading
> Dudley, who won't retaliate while he's got his wand. 

That really bothered me.  Harry was being just plain vindictive, so he was no better than Dudley.

> What happened in the interim to change Harry's mind?  [2]

I think that the intensified bullying from Umbridge, who was much worse than Snape, might have given Harry an increased sensitivity to injustice.  It's to his credit that he turns this into compassion intead of vengeance.

OTOH, after seeing the Pensieve scene, Harry tries to take revenge on Bella after she kills Sirius.  He even tries to use an Unforgivable Curse!  I guess he hasn't learned to completely control his vengeful instincts.

Scurvy Cur
Response 7 Comments
  1. It's good form to show where edits have been made.
  2. Because only one person is being quoted, it's not necessary to label this line. Using a label would not be incorrect, however.
Response 8
From: "human_stain_rox" <the_human_stain2003@y...>
Date: Wed Jun 9, 2004  00:32 am
Subject: Re: Harry's Sympathy for Snape

> Le Miz:
> > What happened in the interim to change Harry's mind?  [1]

> I think that the intensified bullying from Umbridge, who was much worse
> than Snape, might have given Harry an increased sensitivity to injustice.
> It's to his credit that he turns this into compassion intead of vengeance.

> OTOH, after seeing the Pensieve scene, Harry tries to take revenge on
> Bella after she kills Sirius.  He even tries to use an Unforgivable Curse!
> I guess he hasn't learned to completely control his vengeful instincts.
[2]

> Scurvy Cur [3]

human_stain says: [4]
I wonder if Harry would flip Snape upside down now?  After all, Snape is older, more powerful magically, and in a position of authority.  It's not the same as two popular kids against one greasy loner.
Response 8 Comments
  1. Only the second part of Scurvy Cur's message is quoted here because the first part is not relevant to the original material.
  2. Because the comment is so short, this paragraph should probably be eliminated. It's less relevant, anyway.
  3. This sig line needs to be removed and converted into an attribution line.
  4. This attribution line can serve as the sig ONLY because the comment is short, making it easy for the reader to see who wrote this post.  However, it would be better to put a sig at the bottom in addition to (or instead of) this attribution line.  If there were more comments, especially if they consisted of multiple paragraphs, the sig must go at the bottom, and the attribution line would be optional as long as it was still clear who said what.
Response 8 Corrected
From: "human_stain_rox" <the_human_stain2003@y...>
Date: Wed Jun 9, 2004  00:32 am
Subject: Re: Harry's Sympathy for Snape

> Le Miz:
> > What happened in the interim to change Harry's mind?

Scurvy Cur:
> I think that the intensified bullying from Umbridge, who was much worse
> than Snape, might have given Harry an increased sensitivity to injustice.
> It's to his credit that he turns this into compassion intead of vengeance.

human_stain says:
I wonder if Harry would flip Snape upside down now?  After all, Snape is older, more powerful magically, and in a position of authority.  It's not the same as two popular kids against one greasy loner.
Response 9
From: "carolinabelle" <lauren.a.foundling@u...>
Date: Wed Jun 9, 2004  03:47 am
Subject: Re: Harry's Sympathy for Snape

> Le Miz, who can't think of something clever to say, wondered:
> > how many times has Harry fantasized about torturing Snape?

Loony Loopy Lupin:

> In Book 1, he thinks about it X times, ....

> .... [Loon-worthy list of examples]

First of all, congratulations on that bit of research.  I wish *I* had time to do that. :-)

Second, did you find any examples of Harry thinking less-than-vengeful thoughts about Snape?  I don't mean warm fuzzy thoughts, just doubts about whether Snape is all that bad.

Carolina Belle
Response 9 Comments

This post is correctly formatted.