{groups} [HPFGU-Catalogue] Heidi's comments

[Paul Kippes]

Can you elaborate on "I can go through the membership records to
determine people's join and leave dates?"  The join & leave dates for
the Yahoo HPFGU Group are not relevant, right?  And the join & leave
dates for the Yahoo Club have long been lost.

Just to clarify one of your comments: We do not have a list
associating Yahoo club IDs to email addresses.  The email addresses
used on all Club messages were faked.  However, there may be a remote
chance that an included post has a current Yahoo ID profile containing
an email address.

To me, this helps to justify the capability of being able to split and
edit posts.


----- Original Message -----
From: Kelley <kelleythompson at gbronline.com>
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 18:38:35 -0000
Subject: {groups} [HPFGU-Catalogue] Heidi's comments
To: hpfgu-catalogue at yahoogroups.com

>From Heidi; her comments are in quotes, my own to you all are in 
brackets:

Heidi:
"Yahoo's t&c is irrelevant for the content of the posts; we cannot
replicate the interface of yahoomort, though.

Club posts - there was no implied or express permission, so those 
can't be used without permission *unless* the club member was a 
yahoogroup member on or after September 30, 2000 (maybe the 15th - 
not sure when the faq project was announced but I know it was within 
that month). Post Sept 30 (or 15) all posts are usable, except for 
that little bit from may-or-june of 2003 until the tou was remedied. 
Posts made then can be used if the listie was still on the list in 
jan 2004, when the revised terms were put into place."

[Kelley: I believe I've found the message she means, #1025 on main by 
Penny on Sept 5, 2000. There was plenty of discussion about it before 
this, mainly in the archives from the old club, which y'all have no 
doubt seen, so I'm assuming she's going by this September message as 
it's the first to "officially" announce the FAQs (FPs).

Re "*unless* the club member was a yahoogroup member on or after 
September 30, (5th) 2000," for our purposes, if a post we want to use 
for the Catalogue was posted by someone who left the club/group prior 
to this date, we'd have to try to obtain their permission.  Any posts 
made before Sept 5th are fair game if the member was still a list 
member as of Sept 5th.

And, re "that little bit from may-or-june of 2003 until the tou was
remedied," for our purposes, if the person joined during that time, 
posted and left before the tou (HBF) was remedied, *and* we want to 
use their post in the Catalogue, permission must be obtained or the 
post must be left out. If the person stayed on the list after the HBF 
was edited, the posts are okay.

I can go through the membership records to determine people's join 
and leave dates; what's the easiest way for me to find which of the 
first 8800 or so messages are being used for the catalogue?  Just 
start at message #1 in the catalogue and go forward?  Is there a way 
to just get a list of the email addresses / Yah ids of the people 
whose posts will be used from those first 8800?  Certainly many of 
the posts used from that time will be from lots of the same people.

I can also find the dates re "May or June of '03 to whenever the TOU 
was remedied," and determine which posters are applicable here, too.  
I'm also intending to try to obtain permission from any of the 
posters in question, as well, though I'm guessing it may be more 
sensible to wait and see which posts are going to be used from that 
period.]

Heidi:
"Legally, it will make no difference if the catalogue is inacessable 
or accessable, but I suggest it not be google-able or otherwise robot-
able. 'Socially', though people might be pissed if their real name 
was on the post, and that was publicly accessable + googleable. If 
the names of the posters aren't anywhere but within the yahoogroup, 
it's no problem at all."

[Kelley: So, long as it's not publicly accessible, shouldn't be any 
problem. Re "real name" being on the post somewhere, I'm thinking 
that since it was apparently okay with folks to have this info go to 
the list in the first place, and again, as long as the Catalogue 
isn't 'public', we shouldn't have too many problems here, either.]

Heidi:
"If a post has been deleted, or if a member whose post was posted 
during the 'no permission' times in 99-2000 and 2003, the post 
content cannot be used anonymously, but the facts contained in it 
(ie "This post is about Snape and his loff for Lily") can be. But the 
post itself can't be in any database.

Same with the content quoted in another's post; it has to be removed 
or summarized without using the original words. Per copyright, the 
subject line, post number and author names do not have to be used, 
but equal numbers might get upset if their names are used, or aren't. 
There is nothing preventing highlighting relevant parts of posts."
<end relevant comments from Heidi>

[Kelley: Okay; this answers my question (kills my idea <g>) of using 
Paul's archives for cataloguing, re deleted posts -- deleted posts 
will just be left out.  As far as summarizing / paraphrasing, this is 
more applicable to the FPs.  Perhaps if a post we want to use for the 
catalogue is quoting material from a deleted post, paraphrasing could 
be done then.  An option, at least.]


Just some posts I noted while searching:
#69 on main -- Penny:
"4. You may notice that I've added some legal mumbo-jumbo to the
group description since yesterday. Heidi & I (both lawyers) had been
discussing the need to have this language so that we can create the
FAQs. We also thought we needed it over on Yahoo and were about to
discuss the issue when we made the call to move over here. We needed
it even more at Yahoo because we needed to be able to legally move
the messages over from Yahoo to a separate site. Hopefully, noone will
have any real concerns with this, but if you do, Heidi stands at the
ready to answer your questions."

(Kelley: When she says "over on Yahoo", she's referring to the Club; 
at this point we'd migrated to egroups, and they'd not been taken 
over by Yahoo yet.)

Archive:
"Topics/FAQs"
Aug 1, 2000, #5551
July 31, 2000, #5487 + replies

--Kelley




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