From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed Dec  1 20:06:12 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 20:06:12 -0000
Subject: whoo..cold shivers
Message-ID: <col87k+kmal@eGroups.com>


Post 31284

Grey Wolf as a newbie.

They are all stepping out  of the shadows..






From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Wed Dec  1 20:15:48 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 20:15:48 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] whoo..cold shivers
In-Reply-To: <col87k+kmal@eGroups.com>
References: <col87k+kmal@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <CA8A4584-43D5-11D9-A83D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>

Good.
But is the site up and running?

Barry



On 1 Dec 2004, at 20:06, carolynwhite2 wrote:

>
>  Post 31284
>
>  Grey Wolf as a newbie.
>
>  They are all stepping out? of the shadows..
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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> Service.
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>  
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From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed Dec  1 21:31:44 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 21:31:44 -0000
Subject: site
In-Reply-To: <CA8A4584-43D5-11D9-A83D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <cold80+76fu@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> Good.
> But is the site up and running?
> 
> Barry
> 
> 

Erm.., it's as well as can be expected, I suppose. Paul was calling  
his ISP again today. It still slows to cold porridge whenever it 
feels like it. Wasn't too bad this evening, comparatively speaking.

Carolyn






From willsonkmom at msn.com  Wed Dec  1 21:31:07 2004
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (Kathy Willson)
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 16:31:07 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] whoo..cold shivers
In-Reply-To: <CA8A4584-43D5-11D9-A83D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <BAY5-F103EB2147A8E5215490B0ADBF0@phx.gbl>

I managed to code some this week.  Not sure if the site is slow or if my 
computer is slow...or both.

Gray Wolf's newbie post was a heck of a post!  Dare I ask where he is now?  
I haven't seen too many familiar names yet. And I'm seeing a lot I don't 
recognise from our current site.

Kathy

>From: Barry Arrowsmith <arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com>
>Reply-To: HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com
>To: HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [HPFGU-Catalogue] whoo..cold shivers
>Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 20:15:48 +0000
>
>Good.
>But is the site up and running?
>
>Barry
>
>
>
>On 1 Dec 2004, at 20:06, carolynwhite2 wrote:
>
>>
>>  Post 31284
>>
>>  Grey Wolf as a newbie.
>>
>>  They are all stepping out of the shadows..
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>>
>>ADVERTISEMENT
>><111704_1104_g_300250a.gif>
>><l.gif>
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>	 	To visit your group on the web, go to:
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Catalogue/
>>
>>	 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>HPFGU-Catalogue-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
>>
>>	 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>>
>>





From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed Dec  1 21:40:31 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 21:40:31 -0000
Subject: whoo..cold shivers
In-Reply-To: <BAY5-F103EB2147A8E5215490B0ADBF0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <coldof+ilnt@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Kathy Willson" 
<willsonkmom at m...> wrote:
> I managed to code some this week.  Not sure if the site is slow or 
if my 
> computer is slow...or both.
> 
> Gray Wolf's newbie post was a heck of a post!  Dare I ask where he 
is now?  
> I haven't seen too many familiar names yet. And I'm seeing a lot I 
don't 
> recognise from our current site.
> 
> Kathy
> 


Yep, way to start..and he only got better.

He did put two or three posts up in August or September, I think, and 
has been begged on bended knees by all and sundry to return..

Controversially, I would put it down to the (low) quality of the 
current debate, coupled with a certain personal burn-out factor. 
Probably goes for a lot of the major posters of 2002/2003.

Care to comment? Or to suggest what might attract people of this 
quality back in again?

Carolyn






From willsonkmom at msn.com  Thu Dec  2 01:50:26 2004
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (Kathy Willson)
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 20:50:26 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: whoo..cold shivers
In-Reply-To: <coldof+ilnt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <BAY5-F5BCE429628D32880EA963ADB00@phx.gbl>

It would help if some of us would quit arguing over who was the bigger berk: 
James or Snape   Sirius or Snape  Harry or Snape ... Although sometimes I do 
it just to jerk chains. A lot of us (myself included) are as bad as the soap 
opera fans who go on and on about their favorite soap characters.
Kathy

>From: "carolynwhite2" <carolynwhite2 at aol.com>
>Reply-To: HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com
>To: HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: whoo..cold shivers
>Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 21:40:31 -0000
>

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From annemehr at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  2 05:31:19 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 05:31:19 -0000
Subject: whoo..cold shivers
In-Reply-To: <BAY5-F5BCE429628D32880EA963ADB00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <com9b7+pe03@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Kathy Willson"
<willsonkmom at m...> wrote:
> It would help if some of us would quit arguing over who was the
bigger berk: 
> James or Snape   Sirius or Snape  Harry or Snape ... 

This wasn't Snape vs anybody, but I just coded (woohoo! coded!) a set
of posts, one wondering why be a Snape fan, and the other answering
that it's the mystery, and each one fit into Paul's little post box
without having to scroll -- 25577 and 25584. I suggest <evil grin>
that we keep these as the Snape "standard" and reject all others on
the subject.

I also apparently coded the first C.R.A.B. post, and it turns out that
most of it would have caused it to be rejected under "mistakes," only,
like I said, it was the first CRAB one! Post 25575.

Anne







From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Sat Dec  4 04:54:42 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (kippesp)
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2004 04:54:42 -0000
Subject: My god awful ISP
Message-ID: <corfui+mi7g@eGroups.com>


Tonight I was at my parent's house thinking I could actually get 
some work done with their network connection.  But it wasn't to be.  
They use the same ISP and have similar, but not as bad of a 
problem.  So I'll be switching their ISP first to DSL.

For me to switch would require also changing local phone service and 
probably $50 in switching & setup fees.  So my parent's place will 
be a dry run.

The sad thing is my cable provider knows there is a problem.  But 
the California/India call center can't do anything with respect to 
feedback.  And even more frustraiting, they gave me a street address 
for me to visit.  I guess they don't have phones here.

We probably looking at three weeks if a switch to DSL happens.







From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sat Dec  4 11:09:55 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2004 11:09:55 -0000
Subject: My god awful ISP
In-Reply-To: <corfui+mi7g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cos5u3+p1op@eGroups.com>


I hardly dared ask again Paul, thought you might kill me.

FWIW, I switched to DSL a few weeks ago, and have not had any 
problems with it. However, although it downloads at a quite speedy 
512Kbps, if I had cable, for the same price (?22 per month/$43 at 
today's rate of 1.92) I could download at 750Kbps.

But, the major cable provider in our area is ntl, and having once had 
an account with them, all I can say is never again, like never, ever. 
So, my next option if I want more speed is to spend another ?5.00/
$9.6 per month and get the next level up, which downloads at a whizzy 
1Mbps.

Don't quite have the need for that at the moment, though might get 
tempted next year.

Sounds like all cable companies are as bad as each other, the world 
over. Sinister thought..maybe they are actually all the same company, 
operating out of a sweatshop in Bangalore. Would explain a lot.

Carolyn




--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "kippesp" <paul-groups at w...> 
wrote:
> 
> Tonight I was at my parent's house thinking I could actually get 
> some work done with their network connection.  But it wasn't to 
be.  
> They use the same ISP and have similar, but not as bad of a 
> problem.  So I'll be switching their ISP first to DSL.
> 
> For me to switch would require also changing local phone service 
and 
> probably $50 in switching & setup fees.  So my parent's place will 
> be a dry run.
> 
> The sad thing is my cable provider knows there is a problem.  But 
> the California/India call center can't do anything with respect to 
> feedback.  And even more frustraiting, they gave me a street 
address 
> for me to visit.  I guess they don't have phones here.
> 
> We probably looking at three weeks if a switch to DSL happens.






From annemehr at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  4 20:31:19 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2004 20:31:19 -0000
Subject: My god awful ISP
In-Reply-To: <cos5u3+p1op@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cot6qn+2eb8@eGroups.com>


Around here, if you have cable internet, you *might* get the top
speed.  Then again, you might not.  I love my DSL.

Anne


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "carolynwhite2"
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
> 
> I hardly dared ask again Paul, thought you might kill me.
> 
> FWIW, I switched to DSL a few weeks ago, and have not had any 
> problems with it. However, although it downloads at a quite speedy 
> 512Kbps, if I had cable, for the same price (?22 per month/$43 at 
> today's rate of 1.92) I could download at 750Kbps.
> 
> But, the major cable provider in our area is ntl, and having once had 
> an account with them, all I can say is never again, like never, ever. 
> So, my next option if I want more speed is to spend another ?5.00/
> $9.6 per month and get the next level up, which downloads at a whizzy 
> 1Mbps.
> 
> Don't quite have the need for that at the moment, though might get 
> tempted next year.
> 
> Sounds like all cable companies are as bad as each other, the world 
> over. Sinister thought..maybe they are actually all the same company, 
> operating out of a sweatshop in Bangalore. Would explain a lot.
> 
> Carolyn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "kippesp" <paul-groups at w...> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > Tonight I was at my parent's house thinking I could actually get 
> > some work done with their network connection.  But it wasn't to 
> be.  
> > They use the same ISP and have similar, but not as bad of a 
> > problem.  So I'll be switching their ISP first to DSL.
> > 
> > For me to switch would require also changing local phone service 
> and 
> > probably $50 in switching & setup fees.  So my parent's place will 
> > be a dry run.
> > 
> > The sad thing is my cable provider knows there is a problem.  But 
> > the California/India call center can't do anything with respect to 
> > feedback.  And even more frustraiting, they gave me a street 
> address 
> > for me to visit.  I guess they don't have phones here.
> > 
> > We probably looking at three weeks if a switch to DSL happens.






From willsonkmom at msn.com  Sun Dec  5 03:21:24 2004
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (Kathy Willson)
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2004 22:21:24 -0500
Subject: It's working
Message-ID: <BAY5-F8DE62A41975923B989CA4ADB30@phx.gbl>

The site is up and working. (10:30 pm  EST) I managed to finish through 
31100. Even if it was a little confusing to go from a thread on the current 
site to an identical one in the archives. Nothing new under the sun!
Kathy





From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sun Dec  5 18:11:53 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2004 18:11:53 -0000
Subject: UPDATE, Sunday Dec 5th
Message-ID: <covj19+ja83@eGroups.com>


PROGRESS
We have now coded/allocated for coding 39615 posts. Of the 39615, we 
have actually coded 37510 posts, and rejected 21984 of these (58.6%).

Over the last two weeks we have managed to code 1575 posts, with five 
people coding quite a lot, and a further five making a small effort
(!).

Just have to struggle on till Paul shoots someone I guess.

NEW CATEGORIES
1.5.12.3 (1127) Twelve
2.2.5.1 (1126) ESE!Lupin

Please note that last one - it's for Pippin, of course, but you need 
to watch out when those posts started. It would be interesting if 
anyone else was getting suspicious about him as well.







From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Mon Dec  6 08:24:23 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (Paul Kippes)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 02:24:23 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: My god awful ISP
In-Reply-To: <cot6qn+2eb8@eGroups.com>
References: <cos5u3+p1op@eGroups.com> <cot6qn+2eb8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c89e39d504120600241d7d0f23@mail.gmail.com>

For two years it was great.  Then last month something happened.  It
also messes up how pages are checked.  It appears that some pages are
cached and I see old data.  Sort of like what I think AOL does.  Plus
the technicians have been "surprised" we get anything and describe how
their meter bounces all over the place.

They're getting the boot. I've given you more than enough changes and time.


On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 20:31:19 -0000, annemehr <annemehr at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Around here, if you have cable internet, you *might* get the top
> speed.  Then again, you might not.  I love my DSL.
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
> --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "carolynwhite2"
> 
> 
> <carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
> > 
> > I hardly dared ask again Paul, thought you might kill me.
> > 
> > FWIW, I switched to DSL a few weeks ago, and have not had any 
> > problems with it. However, although it downloads at a quite speedy 
> > 512Kbps, if I had cable, for the same price (?22 per month/$43 at 
> > today's rate of 1.92) I could download at 750Kbps.
> > 
> > But, the major cable provider in our area is ntl, and having once had 
> > an account with them, all I can say is never again, like never, ever. 
> > So, my next option if I want more speed is to spend another ?5.00/
> > $9.6 per month and get the next level up, which downloads at a whizzy 
> > 1Mbps.
> > 
> > Don't quite have the need for that at the moment, though might get 
> > tempted next year.
> > 
> > Sounds like all cable companies are as bad as each other, the world 
> > over. Sinister thought..maybe they are actually all the same company, 
> > operating out of a sweatshop in Bangalore. Would explain a lot.
> > 
> > Carolyn
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "kippesp" <paul-groups at w...> 
> > wrote:
> > > 
> > > Tonight I was at my parent's house thinking I could actually get 
> > > some work done with their network connection.  But it wasn't to 
> > be.  
> > > They use the same ISP and have similar, but not as bad of a 
> > > problem.  So I'll be switching their ISP first to DSL.
> > > 
> > > For me to switch would require also changing local phone service 
> > and 
> > > probably $50 in switching & setup fees.  So my parent's place will 
> > > be a dry run.
> > > 
> > > The sad thing is my cable provider knows there is a problem.  But 
> > > the California/India call center can't do anything with respect to 
> > > feedback.  And even more frustraiting, they gave me a street 
> > address 
> > > for me to visit.  I guess they don't have phones here.
> > > 
> > > We probably looking at three weeks if a switch to DSL happens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> 
> ADVERTISEMENT
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Catalogue/
>   
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> HPFGU-Catalogue-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
>   
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Mon Dec  6 17:03:16 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 17:03:16 -0000
Subject: Hostages to fortune...
Message-ID: <cp23ck+fchd@eGroups.com>


Now here's an interesting comment or two (from post 31937). Looks 
like it kicked off a long thread, which I shall look forward to 
coding.


In message 28600, Pippin made the comment:
>We can't rely on deduction because we can't assume that the 
Potterverse is logically consistent, in fact we know it is not. It 
is "catastrophic": subject to the whims of its creator rather than to 
natural law.

I regard this as the most profound statement that I am aware of on 
this list - in theory it deprives us of any rational way to interpret 
the books at all. This post is my personal attempt to say when we can 
say things - and when we are misleading ourselves in what we deduce.







From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Tue Dec  7 06:23:42 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (kippesp)
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 06:23:42 -0000
Subject: Server update
Message-ID: <cp3i9e+bu7l@eGroups.com>


My cable service will be canceled soon.  The process will begin 
tomorrow.  Even if DSL doesn't work out, there is little reason to 
pay for something I can't even use.  Right now, I'm using my 
neighbor's wireless network with my laptop.  But DSL looks like it 
may be okay in my area--that's why my neighbor is on.

So I expect the catalog to be down by the weekend and stay down 
while I await phone installation, DSL installation, and my DSL kit.







From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Tue Dec  7 11:29:36 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 11:29:36 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Hostages to fortune...
In-Reply-To: <cp23ck+fchd@eGroups.com>
References: <cp23ck+fchd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4692F195-4843-11D9-87A5-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>


>
>  Now here's an interesting comment or two (from post 31937). Looks
>  like it kicked off a long thread, which I shall look forward to
>  coding.
>
>
>  In message 28600, Pippin made the comment:
>  >We can't rely on deduction because we can't assume that the
>  Potterverse is logically consistent, in fact we know it is not. It
>  is "catastrophic": subject to the whims of its creator rather than to
>  natural law.
>
>  I regard this as the most profound statement that I am aware of on
>  this list - in theory it deprives us of any rational way to interpret
>  the books at all. This post is my personal attempt to say when we can
>  say things - and when we are misleading ourselves in what we deduce.
>
>

Hum. Not sure I agree with either statement.
IMO the Potterverse is logically consistent *within itself* - and 
Pippin also treats it as such. Why else spend years scouring canon for 
evidence of Vampire!Snape and ESE!Lupin?

It's the difference say, between commonsense classical physics and the 
weirdness of Quantum Theory. Each is logical within it's own terms, but 
each is a bugger to explain by reference to the other.

Barry
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From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Tue Dec  7 11:46:58 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 11:46:58 -0000
Subject: Hostages to fortune...
In-Reply-To: <4692F195-4843-11D9-87A5-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <cp457i+4atl@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> 

> Hum. Not sure I agree with either statement.
> IMO the Potterverse is logically consistent *within itself* - and 
> Pippin also treats it as such. Why else spend years scouring canon 
for 
> evidence of Vampire!Snape and ESE!Lupin?
> 
> It's the difference say, between commonsense classical physics and 
the 
> weirdness of Quantum Theory. Each is logical within it's own terms, 
but 
> each is a bugger to explain by reference to the other.
> 
> Barry


Yes, this was precisely my thought! I toyed with the idea of 
reposting it on the main list, to see how she'd wriggle out of it... 
but she's hard-pressed enough anyway, so I nobly refrained.

Carolyn






From willsonkmom at msn.com  Tue Dec  7 12:26:26 2004
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (Kathy Willson)
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 07:26:26 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Hostages to fortune...
In-Reply-To: <cp457i+4atl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <BAY5-F27041972B1B6657C48337ADB50@phx.gbl>

It isn't fair!  You get posts like that I get Herminone shipping...with 
Mad-Eye Moody!!!!
Yech!
Kathy

>From: "carolynwhite2" <carolynwhite2 at aol.com>
>Reply-To: HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com
>To: HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Hostages to fortune...
>Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 11:46:58 -0000
>

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From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Tue Dec  7 13:23:44 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 13:23:44 -0000
Subject: (Tied up) Hostages to fortune...
In-Reply-To: <BAY5-F27041972B1B6657C48337ADB50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <cp4at0+up8a@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Kathy Willson" 
<willsonkmom at m...> wrote:
> It isn't fair!  You get posts like that I get Herminone 
shipping...with 
> Mad-Eye Moody!!!!
> Yech!
> Kathy
> 


Ah, David's post did actually include a bit of SHIPping, but they 
have got to the stage of putting ring fences around it, people object 
so much.

Hermione with Mad-Eye Moody, eh? An early outing for Madam Whiplash 
it seems...according to Kneasy, Grawp's her most recent client.

(Though what Mr K was doing in the wine cellar of that particular 
bordello, we can only speculate).








From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Tue Dec  7 15:59:37 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 15:59:37 -0000
Subject: Dark mark code
Message-ID: <cp4k19+5251@eGroups.com>


Question:

I am using 3.9.4 Dark mark interchangeably for both the mark that DEs 
have on their forearms and for the skull head put up over the wood in 
the QWC - is this ok, or should we differentiate, and if so, how?

Carolyn






From annemehr at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  7 17:34:42 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 17:34:42 -0000
Subject: Dark mark code
In-Reply-To: <cp4k19+5251@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cp4pji+s547@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "carolynwhite2"
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
> 
> Question:
> 
> I am using 3.9.4 Dark mark interchangeably for both the mark that DEs 
> have on their forearms and for the skull head put up over the wood in 
> the QWC - is this ok, or should we differentiate, and if so, how?
> 
> Carolyn

I don't think the wizards differentiate, they call them both "the dark
mark," so we may as well.  From the end user's point of view, it makes
sense -- that's the first place they'd look either way.  It may be
possible to sort the two in phase II if it looks like we need to.

Sometimes I wish there was a category called "The Marauders," but
where would we put it?  Rename Family Dynamics to Family/Group
Dynamics and stick it there?  Maybe I'm just too lazy to code to each
Marauder individually.

Anne

P.S. Coded one up the other day to 20 categories. *pant, pant*
It was a multiple post by Amy Z and all the points were good.  There'd
just been a big Admin. notice about combining posts, so I got a bunch
of 'em.






From kkearney at students.miami.edu  Tue Dec  7 17:43:48 2004
From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum)
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 17:43:48 -0000
Subject: add IP
Message-ID: <cp4q4k+jo1g@eGroups.com>


Paul,

I've finally gotten around to trying to access the new catalogue site 
from work.  Just tried, could you unblock my IP when you get the 
chance?

Thanks,
Kelly






From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Tue Dec  7 19:44:05 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 19:44:05 -0000
Subject: add IP
In-Reply-To: <cp4q4k+jo1g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cp5165+ohl2@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "corinthum" <kkearney at s...> 
wrote:
> 
> Paul,
> 
> I've finally gotten around to trying to access the new catalogue 
site 
> from work.  Just tried, could you unblock my IP when you get the 
> chance?
> 
> Thanks,
> Kelly


Kelly
Paul says, to help him sort out cataloguers from spammers could you 
hit this address from your work computer. It will automatically send 
him a message identifying you and that particular computer. He can 
then pick it out and unblock it:

 http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/myip.php


Carolyn
PS Anyone can do this - it gives Paul a definitive message 
identifying a particular machine; helps in sorting out ongoing 
connection problems.








From willsonkmom at msn.com  Thu Dec  9 13:26:29 2004
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (Kathy Willson)
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 08:26:29 -0500
Subject: codes
Message-ID: <BAY5-F5474B39DA2BBCD1A3866CADB70@phx.gbl>

I'm slowly, slowly working through my posts this week. And as usual I have 
questions.

The whomping willow is coming up a lot, some of it concerning the symbolism 
of willow.  I remember some recent posts about yews and holly as trees not 
as wand material particularly.  I've coded the willow under wood as well as 
old myths, but I wonder if we need a code for trees?

Also have run into detailed discussion of the Arthur legends, which I put 
under myths and legends.  Does it need its own or is it too late to bother 
sorting it out?

And as for the new post started today, do we have a code that covers 
sexuality as a topic?

Kathy





From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Thu Dec  9 14:24:34 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 14:24:34 -0000
Subject: codes
In-Reply-To: <BAY5-F5474B39DA2BBCD1A3866CADB70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <cp9n72+bvhd@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Kathy Willson" 
<willsonkmom at m...> wrote:
> I'm slowly, slowly working through my posts this week. And as usual 
I have 
> questions.
> 
> The whomping willow is coming up a lot, some of it concerning the 
symbolism 
> of willow.  I remember some recent posts about yews and holly as 
trees not 
> as wand material particularly.  I've coded the willow under wood as 
well as 
> old myths, but I wonder if we need a code for trees?

Carolyn:
I think the different woods for wands can continue to go under the 
existing 'wood' category (as well as code them to wands), however, I 
will add the whomping willow to the magical plants category in 
section 3.

> 
> Also have run into detailed discussion of the Arthur legends, which 
I put 
> under myths and legends.  Does it need its own or is it too late to 
bother 
> sorting it out?

Carolyn:
Old myths & legends will do for now I think. We could sort out that 
section at a later date into particular groups if it seems useful.

> 
> And as for the new post started today, do we have a code that 
covers 
> sexuality as a topic?
> 
> Kathy

Carolyn:
Tricky this. Olivier is really taking a particular sort of  lit crit 
approach, more about symbolism than sex per se, in the same sense 
that people are reading alchemical symbolism into the books.

As you saw, I thought it was interesting - and one of those areas 
where it is very difficult to guess what JKR might or might not have 
intended. Deliciously ambiguous.

When we talked about whether to have a code for sex before, what we 
were referring to was teenage fumblings, and whether they should go 
under one of a variety of headings, such as:

one of the SHIPping codes
1.1.3 Friendship, love & loyalty
1.4.3 Portrayal of Males, Females & Gays
3.4.5 Sexual orientation

Olivier's post doesn't fit any of these, it belongs under lit crit of 
some sort probably. On the other hand, this is probably an area we 
should sort out - and maybe add some new ones or fold one or two 
existing ones together. Any thoughts anyone?

Carolyn

PS I notice the site is back up - are we on DSL now, Paul ??










From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Fri Dec 10 21:12:44 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 21:12:44 -0000
Subject: Catalogue connection
Message-ID: <cpd3gc+nlvu@eGroups.com>


Paul - are you now on DSL ?

I've just done a run of posts, and the connection seems better, but 
not brilliant - the category list still takes a while to load.

Carolyn

PS - Posts 32565, 32587 - the first from Dicentra, I think






From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Sat Dec 11 04:30:26 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (Paul Kippes)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 22:30:26 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Catalogue connection
In-Reply-To: <cpd3gc+nlvu@eGroups.com>
References: <cpd3gc+nlvu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c89e39d504121020307baaf843@mail.gmail.com>

No.  Mine should be switched by next weekend.


On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 21:12:44 -0000, carolynwhite2 <carolynwhite2 at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> Paul - are you now on DSL ?
> 
> I've just done a run of posts, and the connection seems better, but 
> not brilliant - the category list still takes a while to load.
> 
> Carolyn
> 
> PS - Posts 32565, 32587 - the first from Dicentra, I think
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> 
> ADVERTISEMENT
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Catalogue/
>   
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> HPFGU-Catalogue-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
>   
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



From annemehr at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 11 15:38:44 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 15:38:44 -0000
Subject: Forbidden Forest
Message-ID: <cpf4a4+j5ns@eGroups.com>


Post 32376 begins a thread on what the FF may be like.  I can't find a
good place to code for it.  The FF is listed under the
Geography/Location category whose definition requests only to code
posts about location. I could code it under Layout of Hogwarts, but it
doesn't seem to fit there, either.

Just checked the actual posts (only three) coded under FF in
Geography/Location of WW Places, and they're all about
characteristics, not location, so I'm sticking mine in there for the
time being...

Anne






From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sun Dec 12 15:19:09 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 15:19:09 -0000
Subject: UPDATE Sunday 12th December
Message-ID: <cphnhd+50n6@eGroups.com>


PROGRESS
To date we have coded/allocated for coding 40627 posts, and actually 
coded 38787 of these. We have rejected 22463 (57.9%).

This week, with 7.5 people coding (!), we managed 1277 posts, despite 
connection problems.

CODING ERRORS
Could you look at the reject/code status on:

23480 (Laurasia)
31328 (Doug)
30731, 30747 (Debbie)

(For newer members - all this means is that somehow a post has ended 
up with a tick in the reject section as well as in another section. 
Actually this is quite easy to do with the delay in loading the 
category list - you need to watch it has re-loaded before starting 
coding, or you add to your previous post coding decisions..grr).

GROUP MEMBERS
Pleased to welcome Ginger (Quigonginger) to the group. She has some 
other assignments to finish until Christmas, but will join us in 
coding after New Year.

NEW CATEGORIES
2.15.18 (1128) Weasels
2.15.19 (1129) Stags/Deer
3.12.3 (1130) Whomping Willow

And Anne - yes, I think it is fine to use the Forbidden Forest 
category as you suggest.

STATISTICAL TRIVIA
Haven't had a look at these for a while, so here's a selection for 
you.

Most discussed meta-themes -

Good v evil (270)
Friendship, love & loyalty (244)
Freewill, choice & fate (130)
Death & immortality (115)
Maturity, immaturity (108)
Religious influences (104)

Most discussed chapter in each book -

SS - Ch 1 The Boy Who Lived (80)
CoS - Ch 4 Flourish & Blotts & Ch 17 The Heir of Slytherin (34 each)
PoA - Ch 21 The Dementor's Kiss (95)
GoF - Ch 34 Priori Incantatum (130)

Most discussed characters -

Harry (1590)
Snape (1429)
Hermione (830)






From annemehr at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 12 22:57:41 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 22:57:41 -0000
Subject: UPDATE Sunday 12th December
In-Reply-To: <cphnhd+50n6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cpiid5+krpe@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "carolynwhite2"
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:

> STATISTICAL TRIVIA
> Haven't had a look at these for a while, so here's a selection for 
> you.
> 
> Most discussed meta-themes -
> 
> Good v evil (270)
> Friendship, love & loyalty (244)
> Freewill, choice & fate (130)
> Death & immortality (115)
> Maturity, immaturity (108)
> Religious influences (104)
> 
> Most discussed chapter in each book -
> 
> SS - Ch 1 The Boy Who Lived (80)
> CoS - Ch 4 Flourish & Blotts & Ch 17 The Heir of Slytherin (34 each)
> PoA - Ch 21 The Dementor's Kiss (95)
> GoF - Ch 34 Priori Incantatum (130)
> 
> Most discussed characters -
> 
> Harry (1590)
> Snape (1429)
> Hermione (830)

It's encouraging to see that most of these so far are reasonably small
numbers.  I see that some of the characters will have to receive
subdivisions in phase II, but after this coding, doing those
relatively little chunks is going to seem like a piece of cake.

Anne







From willsonkmom at msn.com  Mon Dec 13 15:32:27 2004
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (Kathy Willson)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:32:27 -0500
Subject: SHAMEFUL
Message-ID: <BAY5-F4092D99F67052EC79B463ADAB0@phx.gbl>

I guess it's some consolation that I have to read shipping posts that I was 
the very first to code a post to SHAMEFUL.  It was, of course, the post that 
named it. Couldn't decide whether to code to Mad-eye or to Barty Jr so did 
both.  :-)

I've also come upon posts about Narcissa being an Evans sister/Petunia being 
a Black sister but I've coded them under rejected: mistakes. I don't think 
there's a great interest in that line of debate?

Kathy





From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Mon Dec 13 18:30:04 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 18:30:04 -0000
Subject: Dicentra says it all [33097]
Message-ID: <cpkn3c+sjq1@eGroups.com>


If only comments such as this could be re-posted at weekly intervals..

> Dumbledore might have had a reason for tolerating the closet. 

Remember, though, that we're talking about a work of fiction. JKR has
no intention of making the Dursleys in any way real. Their actions are
exaggerated for the sake of comedy--poking fun at unimaginative people
in general and making an enjoyable story. It's not unlike Charlie's
miserable but fictional poverty in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

The very idea of keeping a kid in the cupboard under the stairs is
ludicrous--and hilarious. So is the way in which they spoil Dudley,
and their reaction to all things magic (the letters, etc.). JKR wrote
Harry as a kid who survives it all and keeps his humanity intact,
which would not happen if the fictional HP world were meant to
function the same as the real world.

Dicentra, who thinks the Dursleys are a scream.






From sevenhundredandthirteen at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 14 00:42:26 2004
From: sevenhundredandthirteen at yahoo.com (sevenhundredandthirteen)
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 00:42:26 -0000
Subject: HP and Theoretical Physics
Message-ID: <cplcti+4m6v@eGroups.com>


If this isn't the single most thought-provoking post I've ever read, 
I don't know what is.

>From 32283
-----------------------------------------------------------
I had wondered about the wizarding world being real too, daydreaming 
about the possibilities and how frightening it might be. Theoretical 
Physics is a non-fiction subject I am interested in.If you take the 
chaos theory and other newly discovered properties of matter that 
scientist's are proposing exist, then the wizarding world could very 
well be real. Think of all the strange stories throughout history of 
people who supposedly had unusual abilities. Could it be that they 
were wizards? Rowling talks about suddenly conceiving the idea of 
the 
Potter series while riding on a train. Anyone who reads Jungian 
psychology might wonder where this entertaining epiphany came 
from...Obviously, muggles outnumber the wizard population and are a 
threat, therefore the wizards found it necessary to hide their 
existance to prevent extinction. Also, Hagrid refers to the wizard 
population as nearly dying out at one time, and that being one of 
the 
reasons Dumbledore allows muggle born wizards into the school and as 
an explaination for squibs. Who knows? But its an interesting 
possibility that the wizarding world could actually exist if you 
base 
your supposition on theoretical physics. Einstein was horrified at 
some of theories that his discoveries led him to conclude. I'm sure 
you remember his comment that" God does not play dice with the 
universe". Hey, but what if he does?

Jo Ellen
> --------------------------------------------------------

~<(Laurasia)>~ 
Who has a real interest in theoretical physics and is plotting a way 
to revive this thread. Any tips on where the hell I code this are 
also welcome. I can't find any real 'philosophy' category.






From annemehr at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 14 03:56:33 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 03:56:33 -0000
Subject: HP and Theoretical Physics
In-Reply-To: <cplcti+4m6v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cplo9h+csvg@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "sevenhundredandthirteen"
<sevenhundredandthirteen at y...> wrote:
> 
> If this isn't the single most thought-provoking post I've ever read, 
> I don't know what is.
> 
> From 32283
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> I had wondered about the wizarding world being real too, daydreaming 
> about the possibilities and how frightening it might be. Theoretical 
> Physics is a non-fiction subject I am interested in.If you take the 
> chaos theory and other newly discovered properties of matter that 
> scientist's are proposing exist, then the wizarding world could very 
> well be real.
<snip etc.>
> Jo Ellen
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ~<(Laurasia)>~ 
> Who has a real interest in theoretical physics and is plotting a way 
> to revive this thread. Any tips on where the hell I code this are 
> also welcome. I can't find any real 'philosophy' category.



I KNEW IT!!!!

ahem.

I guess I'd use:
1.3.1 Parameters set by JKR/Authorial intent
1.3.1.2 Reader response & subversive readings
3.8 Magic
5.2 Fantastic Post

I'll be looking for your reply on the main list, then.

Anne







From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Tue Dec 14 10:05:39 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:05:39 -0000
Subject: HP and Theoretical Physics
In-Reply-To: <cplcti+4m6v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cpmdtj+ieq9@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "sevenhundredandthirteen" 
<sevenhundredandthirteen at y...> wrote:
> 
But its an interesting possibility that the wizarding world could 
actually exist if you base your supposition on theoretical physics. 
Einstein was horrified at some of theories that his discoveries led 
him to conclude. I'm sure you remember his comment that" God does not 
play dice with the universe". Hey, but what if he does?
> 
> Jo Ellen
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ~<(Laurasia)>~ 
> Who has a real interest in theoretical physics and is plotting a 
way to revive this thread. Any tips on where the hell I code this are 
> also welcome. I can't find any real 'philosophy' category.

Anne
I guess I'd use:
1.3.1 Parameters set by JKR/Authorial intent
1.3.1.2 Reader response & subversive readings
3.8 Magic
5.2 Fantastic Post


Carolyn:
Well, if you subscribe to the Douglas Adams theory of life, you will 
know that our entire world is an experiment run by mice from another 
planet ...

There's actually been a fair amount of scientific 
comparison/speculation about the WW and the muggle world. I tend to 
use a selection from the codes below, to capture it. Maybe 3.2.2 gets 
closest for this post? If you are going to get into philosophy & 
what's-God's-purpose (if he exists) arguments, then probably some of 
the meta-themes such as 'Freewill, choice & fate' etc come into play ?


3.2.2 Relationship with muggle world
3.8.2 General properties and types of magic
3.4.7 WW lifespans, genetics & population estimates
3.7.3 Wireless & other WW technologies
3.8.1 Magical ability






From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Tue Dec 14 22:03:26 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 22:03:26 -0000
Subject: Talisman returns...
Message-ID: <cpnnve+3s85@eGroups.com>


No one, on any account should miss this completely priceless post 
that has just gone up on OTC:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/25335

All I can say is wow....what a comeback. Trust it answered imamommy's 
idle enquiry !


Carolyn








From annemehr at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 15 04:36:25 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 04:36:25 -0000
Subject: Talisman returns...
In-Reply-To: <cpnnve+3s85@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cpof09+o9p1@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "carolynwhite2"
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
> 
> No one, on any account should miss this completely priceless post 
> that has just gone up on OTC:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/25335
> 
> All I can say is wow....what a comeback. Trust it answered imamommy's 
> idle enquiry !
> 
> 
> Carolyn

Fortunately I read it before; unfortunately it's disappeared (as has
the one right before or right after).

Anne







From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed Dec 15 09:11:00 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:11:00 -0000
Subject: Talisman returns...
In-Reply-To: <cpof09+o9p1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cpov34+3rti@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
wrote:
> 
> --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "carolynwhite2"
> <carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
> > 
> > No one, on any account should miss this completely priceless post 
> > that has just gone up on OTC:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/25335
> > 
> > All I can say is wow....what a comeback. Trust it answered 
imamommy's 
> > idle enquiry !
> > 
> > 
> > Carolyn
> 
> Fortunately I read it before; unfortunately it's disappeared (as has
> the one right before or right after).
> 
> Anne


What a pity...I suppose the Elves thought it was libellous or 
something. Probably was, but *what* an analysis - wish I'd copied it 
to my hard drive. Rats and double rats. Sorry folks, if you didn't 
catch it, you missed a spectacular literary rubbishing.

Carolyn






From timregan at microsoft.com  Wed Dec 15 11:33:18 2004
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:33:18 -0000
Subject: Talisman returns...
In-Reply-To: <cpov34+3rti@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cpp7dv+dlbu@eGroups.com>



Hi All,

Carolyn recommended:
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/25335 <<<

Anne replied:
>>> Fortunately I read it before; unfortunately it's disappeared <<<

Carolyn postulated:
>>> I suppose the Elves thought it was libellous or something. [
] 
wish I'd copied it to my hard drive <<<

I don't think so. I'm not the most observant elf but I have not seen 
any notice or discussion about removing that post on any of the 
elves' lists. I did save it in my mail-file, so here's a copy for 
those who missed it :-)

Cheers,

Dumbledad.

--------------------------------------------------

From: Talisman [mailto:talisman22457 at yahoo.com]
Sent: Tue 14/12/2004 18:35 
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Books about Harry Potter

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "elady25" <imamommy at s...> 
wrote:
 I was at Borders today and saw a book entitled "Harry Potter and 
Philosophy (If Aristotle ran Hogwarts) edited by David Bagget and 
Shawn E. Klein. I was wondering if anyone out there had read it (or 
written it!) and if you thought it was any good. Also, are there any 
other books *about* the Harry Potter series that deserve a good read 
(other than those by Galadriel Waters). Thanks! > > imamommy

Talisman, shaking off a layer of dust, responds:

If you found any of the Waters books meaningful, which I have not, 
then I cannot speak to how you would enjoy _Harry Potter and 
Philosophy_ . 

FWIW, based on the excert available at Amazon.com, I'd call it a 
mediocre effort, put out by academics of questionable talent, who, 
feeling the old professorial pressure to publish, decided to ride 
the HP train and slapped together some slop, garnished, of course, 
with notable names in philosophy.

The Amazon site offers a "look inside" where a good bit of an essay 
entitled "The Courageous Harry Potter," by Tom Morris (whoever he 
may be, is available for review.

I found the ideas expressed in this "teaser" rather tepid. If it 
were an freshman essay, and I were feeling sympathetic, I might give 
it a "C minus," adding some advice on how to do better next time. 
Otherwise I'd chuck it in the trash.

The premise itself is such a snore that it's tiresome to read the 
title. We all know how important bravery is to Rowling and her 
series. We are quite well acquainted with the prerequisites of 
Gryffindor, and it would be difficult to find readers who do not 
think Harry exhibits courage on a routine basis. 

The tread-bare idea that courage is not equivalent to fearlessness, 
but rather entails the ability to move forward in spite of fear, is 
the stuff of Sesame Street skits, please wake me up when Mr. Morris 
is done talking about it.

Morris presses the point, in hopes of wedging Aristotle into the 
mix, and tries to make Harry an exemplar of the golden mean-- 
requiring that his courage be equipoise between fearlessness and 
recklessness. This is not a successful argument.

Now perhaps we could--if anyone actually thought it profitable-- 
argue about just where on the fearless/reckless continuum Harry 
belongs in any given situation. And I would allow that recklessness 
is a relative thing, acknowledging that one does not always have the 
luxury of prudent rumination when Dark Wizards are about. 
Nonetheless, Harry's "plan" usually consists of 1) grab wand 2) jump 
down dark gaping abyss.

Mistakenly believing that Aristotle has his back, Morris goes on to 
take an even more untenable stance, proposing what he calls 
Harry's "Recipe For Courage." 

At this point the moldering aroma of stale pop-psychology, gleaned 
from an old paper Mr. Morris had lying about in a dog-eared manila 
folder, begins to permeate the air. While we all hold our noses, he 
attempts to resuscitate the corpse with liberal sprinkles of Harry 
Potter juice. 

The Recipe requires that one:

1) Prepare for the challenge;  2) Surround one's self with support; 
3) Engage in positive self talk; 4) Focus on what is at stake; and 
then 5) Engage in appropriate action.

(I will not be at all surprised to find that Morris is some sort of 
wanky guidance counselor.)

Harry doesn't prepare for challenges. The fact that he has any 
preparation relevant to a challenge is attributable either to luck 
or DD's plan (depending on your theoretical stance). He thinks Snape 
has slipped past Fluffy, so he jumps through the trap door; he hears 
Ginny has been taken, so he jumps down the pipe; a big dog grabs his 
friend, so he gives chase.

 Morris tries to pin this together with quotes from GoF, where Harry 
is feeling more confident about the third challenge, having actually 
practiced some hexes and defensive spells. 

It's true that Harry did put more work into the third challenge--in 
stark contrast to the lackadaisical attitude he exhibited for number 
two-- but, he certainly didn't prepare to meet Voldemort in the 
graveyard. 

Moreover, the spell he used on Voldemort was not shown to be one he 
practiced particularly for the maze. In fact, I think it unlikely 
that he planned to use the Expelliarmus spell, at all, that night.  
And, once again, his salvation came from unexpected (at least to 
Harry) sources: Priori Incantatum and helpful shadow people.

Harry is closest to the reckless line in Book 5, where Hermione 
warns--what Snape has already cautioned Harry about, and what turns 
out to be true--that Voldmort is using the mind connection to 
manipulate Harry for his own ends. Harry only checks at Grimmauld 
place because Hermione insists, and even then, he is so hot-headed 
he relies on the taunt of a hostile house elf, forgets that Snape is 
in the Order, and takes off for the MoM as soon as he can, with no 
real idea what he will do when he gets there. 

The weakness of the argument follows on for Step 2: Surround one's 
self with support.

 Harry doesn't ask Ron and Hermione to follow him through the trap 
door, they insist. Ron goes with Harry in CoS because it's Ginny who 
has been taken. But, Ron is only helpful because Harry also asks 
Lockheart to come along--which turns out to be a rather bad idea. 
Ron's wand action effectively takes both of them out of the 
equation, and Harry proceeds into the CoS just as alone as if he 
hadn't started out with anyone at all. Etc., etc. Look at any of the 
books. Harry's courage simply is not shown to be the product of 
external influence.

Harry does engage in some (Step 3) positive self talk, but just as 
often his inner speech is fatalistic or even unnecessarily 
pessimistic.

Take for instance his mental process before dueling LV: "Harry 
crouched behind the headstone and knew the end had come. There was 
no hope . . . No help to be had. . . . He knew one thing only and it 
was beyond fear or reason (hmmm, sounds like Morris's definition of 
fearlessness, which HE considers the opposite of courage) 
 he was 
going to die trying to defend himself, even if no defense was 
possible." (GoF 662)

I just don't think Morris read the books.

As for Step 4, I'm sure Harry always focuses on what he thinks is a 
stake, so what?

Whether (Step 5) Harry's actions are always the appropriate ones can 
be debated, but, even if Morris finds adequate support for this 
point (which we won't know unless we read the actual book) his essay 
is without value. Morris's construct doesn't further the reader's 
understanding of the series. It simply isn't germane.

Morris's recipe is a recipe for a great big yawn.

All meaningful subtext emerges from philosophy. I would love to read 
a worthy examination of the philosophy undergirding the series. But, 
unless the rest of the book is of much higher caliber than what we 
are shown, this isn`t it. Personally, I advice waiting for the local 
library's copy. Or be one of those people who sit in Borders and 
read before you buy.

Eventually, I will probably leaf through it, though. After all, 
someone quotes Martha Nussbaum on pages 168-169, so there is a bit 
of hope . . .

And, it's only $12.95 plus S &H, so if your willing to blow a little 
mad money, go ahead. But, if it all turns out to be as lame as Mr. 
Morris's offering, don't say I didn't warn you.

Suggesting you contemplate the Hegelian dialectic, instead. At least 
until the library acquisition is complete.

Talisman






From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed Dec 15 12:04:29 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:04:29 -0000
Subject: Talisman returns...
In-Reply-To: <cpp7dv+dlbu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cpp98d+6pvh@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Tim Regan" <timregan at m...> 
wrote:
> I don't think so. I'm not the most observant elf but I have not 
seen 
> any notice or discussion about removing that post on any of the 
> elves' lists. I did save it in my mail-file, so here's a copy for 
> those who missed it :-)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Dumbledad.
> 


Tim - thank you, thank you! It is just as good as I remembered it. 
This is known as quality posting, IMNVHO...

For anyone not familiar with Talisman's style, all I can say is you 
have a treat in store in the archives ahead. And I say that even 
though she sliced me up in my first week as a newbie. It's the Snape 
approach - it works, you know.

Carolyn






From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Wed Dec 15 16:15:29 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:15:29 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Talisman returns...
In-Reply-To: <cpp98d+6pvh@eGroups.com>
References: <cpp98d+6pvh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <89A53DEC-4EB4-11D9-B246-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>

>
>  Tim - thank you, thank you! It is just as good as I remembered it.
>  This is known as quality posting, IMNVHO...
>
>  For anyone not familiar with Talisman's style, all I can say is you
>  have a treat in store in the archives ahead. And I say that even
>  though she sliced me up in my first week as a newbie. It's the Snape
>  approach - it works, you know.
>
>  Carolyn
>
>
>

Agreed. Quality stuff.

I'm trying to find out why it was removed (if, as it seems, it wasn't 
somebody in Admin getting the vapours). Will report back if/when I hear 
something.

Personally,  I'm all for site heavyweights  taking it upon themselves 
to put whippersnappers firmly in their place - you had Talisman, I had 
Amanda. You don't half learn quickly just what is acceptable and what 
isn't. You lick your wounds and get on with it -  or leave.

Maybe somebody should write a paper - Public Humiliation in the 
Evolution of a Message Board: Get Fit or Die.

Barry


  
  
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From kkearney at students.miami.edu  Wed Dec 15 20:28:19 2004
From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 20:28:19 -0000
Subject: Talisman returns...
In-Reply-To: <89A53DEC-4EB4-11D9-B246-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <cpq6p3+dc4f@eGroups.com>


Barry wrote:

> Maybe somebody should write a paper - Public Humiliation in the 
> Evolution of a Message Board: Get Fit or Die.

Perhaps all message boards should have an RTFM equilvalent...works 
well on programming boards to stop stupid comments.

-Kelly 






From kkearney at students.miami.edu  Wed Dec 15 20:57:21 2004
From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 20:57:21 -0000
Subject: title and date speculation/new set
Message-ID: <cpq8fh+l03f@eGroups.com>


I just completed a slew of posts discussing a time frame for 
publication of OoP as well as some future titles of books 6 and 7 
(based on trademarks).  I rejected them all as off topic... any 
objections?

Also, Carolyn, I need a new set of posts.

-Kelly






From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed Dec 15 21:17:39 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:17:39 -0000
Subject: title and date speculation/new set
In-Reply-To: <cpq8fh+l03f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cpq9lj+8b1r@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "corinthum" <kkearney at s...> 
wrote:
> 
> I just completed a slew of posts discussing a time frame for 
> publication of OoP as well as some future titles of books 6 and 7 
> (based on trademarks).  I rejected them all as off topic... any 
> objections?
> 
> Also, Carolyn, I need a new set of posts.
> 
> -Kelly

No objections whatever, sounds the right thing to do. I seem to 
recall one of the lawyers, Heidi or someone did a comprehensive 
analysis of what the trademarked titles did and did not signify. I 
think it came down to movie discussions, not books, in the end.

Some new posts: 33501-33700 

Carolyn






From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed Dec 15 21:27:07 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:27:07 -0000
Subject: Talisman returns...
In-Reply-To: <cpq6p3+dc4f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cpqa7b+m3l3@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "corinthum" <kkearney at s...> 
wrote:
> 
> Barry wrote:
> 
> > Maybe somebody should write a paper - Public Humiliation in the 
> > Evolution of a Message Board: Get Fit or Die.
> 
> Perhaps all message boards should have an RTFM equilvalent...works 
> well on programming boards to stop stupid comments.
> 
> -Kelly


Kelly, this is a fine, but sadly subversive comment which I would 
personally like to email to a large number of posters with my best 
wishes for the festive season. Take as many catalogue team points as 
you like...

Carolyn
who needed a laugh..






From annemehr at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 16 03:24:58 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 03:24:58 -0000
Subject: Talisman returns...
In-Reply-To: <cpqa7b+m3l3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cpqv6a+sv8m@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "carolynwhite2"
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
> 
> --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "corinthum" <kkearney at s...> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > Barry wrote:
> > 
> > > Maybe somebody should write a paper - Public Humiliation in the 
> > > Evolution of a Message Board: Get Fit or Die.
> > 
> > Perhaps all message boards should have an RTFM equilvalent...works 
> > well on programming boards to stop stupid comments.
> > 
> > -Kelly
> 
> 
> Kelly, this is a fine, but sadly subversive comment which I would 
> personally like to email to a large number of posters with my best 
> wishes for the festive season. Take as many catalogue team points as 
> you like...
> 
> Carolyn
> who needed a laugh..

*sadly doesn't get it*

What's RTFM?

I wondered if Talisman hadn't removed it herself for some reason, like
maybe she realised she'd made a mistake somewhere (she doesn't often,
but I bet she'd hate that).  Geez, I hope she wasn't getting flamed.

Does anyone know what was the other post that was removed?  Maybe it
relates.

Anne







From timregan at microsoft.com  Thu Dec 16 09:26:17 2004
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 09:26:17 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Talisman returns...
Message-ID: <502C27106D99DB478C13DEDBFD185E1501488E5B@EUR-MSG-12.europe.corp.microsoft.com>

Hi All,

Anne wondered:
>>> I wondered if Talisman hadn't removed it herself for some reason <<<

>From the logs it looks like that is exactly what happened. I feel a bit
bad now, if Talisman didn't want her post public any longer then it was
a tad naughty of me to forward it to here :-(

Cheers,

Dumbledad




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Thu Dec 16 09:40:42 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 09:40:42 -0000
Subject: Talisman returns...
In-Reply-To: <cpqv6a+sv8m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cprl6q+gue5@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
wrote:

> 
> *sadly doesn't get it*
> 
> What's RTFM?

Ah, apologies, computer-geek-speak for 'read the f*** manual'. Lots 
of people on the IT help desk where I used to work had it printed on 
their T-shirts. Their secret revenge on the cretins they had to deal 
with, I fear...


> 
> I wondered if Talisman hadn't removed it herself for some reason, 
like
> maybe she realised she'd made a mistake somewhere (she doesn't 
often,
> but I bet she'd hate that).  Geez, I hope she wasn't getting flamed.
> 
> Does anyone know what was the other post that was removed?  Maybe it
> relates.
> 

Erm..it would be a brave person that tried to flame Talisman, 
methinks. The other post removed was the one she was replying to & 
was included in the bit Tim copied for us - and someone else has also 
replied to it on OTC - looked fairly innocuous to me. You could be 
right, maybe there's some glaring error we haven't spotted. The thick 
plottens..

Carolyn






From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Fri Dec 17 11:44:00 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:44:00 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re:
In-Reply-To: <cprl6q+gue5@eGroups.com>
References: <cprl6q+gue5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <F1449660-5020-11D9-869D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>


Run into a thread discussing the Hogwarts Quill (notes births of all 
magical children) and JKR's clue re: the 'late' developer.
Strangely enough there doesn't seem to be a category for Wizard/Witch 
in the abstract as opposed to the particular either.

How to catalogue?

Barry




From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Fri Dec 17 12:47:03 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:47:03 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re:
In-Reply-To: <F1449660-5020-11D9-869D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
References: <cprl6q+gue5@eGroups.com> <F1449660-5020-11D9-869D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <C0207E58-5029-11D9-869D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>

Good post on Lupin - 28648

Barry




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Fri Dec 17 13:24:14 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:24:14 -0000
Subject: No subject
In-Reply-To: <F1449660-5020-11D9-869D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <cpumlu+1rnt@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> 
> Run into a thread discussing the Hogwarts Quill (notes births of 
all 
> magical children) and JKR's clue re: the 'late' developer.
> Strangely enough there doesn't seem to be a category for 
Wizard/Witch 
> in the abstract as opposed to the particular either.
> 
> How to catalogue?
> 

I've been using
3.2.5 Medals, awards, titles for warlock-definition posts

but 3.8.1 magical ability might be more relevant here?

or we could have a new sub-category.


>Good post on Lupin - 28648

As Pippin says, the truth is out there...

Re Harry thread, you probably shouldn't read 33764.

Carolyn










From willsonkmom at msn.com  Fri Dec 17 13:32:17 2004
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (Kathy Willson)
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 08:32:17 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re:
In-Reply-To: <C0207E58-5029-11D9-869D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <BAY5-F44A45388940786730B51BADAF0@phx.gbl>

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From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Fri Dec 17 15:36:01 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 15:36:01 -0000
Subject: Talisman returns... to join us
In-Reply-To: <cprl6q+gue5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cpuud1+e6is@eGroups.com>


Very pleased to welcome Talisman to the group, following various 
offlist exchanges and explanations...

Carolyn, nervous <g>






From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Fri Dec 17 15:33:44 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 15:33:44 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re:
In-Reply-To: <cpumlu+1rnt@eGroups.com>
References: <cpumlu+1rnt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <099E9556-5041-11D9-869D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>

>
>  Re Harry thread, you probably shouldn't read 33764.
>
>  Carolyn
>
>

You're right, I shouldn't.
Sanctimonious claptrap combined with a total ignorance of what great 
literature is.

Barry
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From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Fri Dec 17 17:16:50 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 17:16:50 -0000
Subject: No subject
In-Reply-To: <099E9556-5041-11D9-869D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <cpv4a2+hoo7@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> >
> >  Re Harry thread, you probably shouldn't read 33764.
> >
> >  Carolyn
> >
> >
> 
> You're right, I shouldn't.
> Sanctimonious claptrap combined with a total ignorance of what 
great 
> literature is.
> 
> Barry


*However*...I have just been lucky enough to encounter Elkin's first 
post [33804]. Things are looking up...although interestingly, as yet, 
she sees no shades of grey with Peter. Maybe later - I forget what 
her eventual position was on him.

Carolyn






From severelysigune at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Dec 18 18:00:50 2004
From: severelysigune at yahoo.co.uk (severelysigune)
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:00:50 -0000
Subject: Noble Lord Thingy
Message-ID: <cq1r8i+htbv@eGroups.com>


Maybe I have a twisted sense of humour (I'm quite sure I do), but 
here is something I thought rather funny:

Someone reasonably wonders:
> What I was wondering about is why V. hesitated to
> kill Lily in the first 
> place. Why would he yell at her "Stand aside, stupid
> girl!"? In GoF we were 
> demonstrated that his usual position is "kill the
> spare". Why didn't he 
> regard Lily as a spare? My guess is she must have
> been special to him in 
> some way.

Someone else replies:
>Not necessarily. I have suggested before that
possibly Voldemorte simply prefers not to kill witches
unless absolutely necessary, (out of respect for his
mother's memory perhaps?).<

Basically, Voldy is a gentleman. Why haven't I noticed before?

Yours severely,

S.








From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sat Dec 18 22:37:09 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 22:37:09 -0000
Subject: Never mind Noble Lord Thingy...
In-Reply-To: <cq1r8i+htbv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cq2bel+dsfs@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "severelysigune" 
<severelysigune at y...> wrote:
> 
<snip>
> 
> Basically, Voldy is a gentleman. Why haven't I noticed before?
> 
> Yours severely,
> 
> S.

Can trump you from 34006:

>>I wonder if I was a little at fault for this discussion by saying 
that Frank Longbottom somehow reminded me of Donald Rumsfeld. That 
seems to have been taken in two separate ways. :-) <<<


This is Eileen, but oh boy, are things hotting up now Elkins has 
arrived...
Carolyn






From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Sun Dec 19 10:23:09 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 10:23:09 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re:
In-Reply-To: <cpv4a2+hoo7@eGroups.com>
References: <cpv4a2+hoo7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <FAD4D4AF-51A7-11D9-8F25-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>

>
>
>  *However*...I have just been lucky enough to encounter Elkin's first
>  post [33804]. Things are looking up...although interestingly, as yet,
>  she sees no shades of grey with Peter. Maybe later - I forget what
>  her eventual position was on him.
>
>  Carolyn
>
>


I like it.
The sub-text that the Longbottoms might be cold-eyed killers who 
deserved everything they got, with a hint that the Lestranges were 
risking life and limb by nobly revenging their fallen friends when they 
could have run away and hidden - plus a soupcon of Sevvy angst in 
betraying those he admires - hmm! Can we re-post it?
I do enjoy it when the righteous (or self-righteous) start foaming at 
the mouth.

Alternatively, I  feel an historical allusion coming on..... my old 
mate Cromwell. Maybe in a few days I'll have something fit to post.

Oh, and I've finished my current batch. Though it's questionable how 
much I'll be able to do, what with this outbreak of the totally 
unnatural 'goodwill to all men' attitude that I'm expected to adopt for 
the coming week.

Barry
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From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sun Dec 19 13:31:29 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 13:31:29 -0000
Subject: No subject
In-Reply-To: <FAD4D4AF-51A7-11D9-8F25-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <cq3vrh+gdq7@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> 
> Oh, and I've finished my current batch. Though it's questionable 
how much I'll be able to do, what with this outbreak of the totally 
> unnatural 'goodwill to all men' attitude that I'm expected to adopt 
for the coming week.
> 
> Barry


I have every confidence you will be able to ruin everyone's fun.

Here's some more: 34051-34250

Also, an interesting point from 34025 which I hadn't considered 
before - who bit Lupin?



Finally, Kneasy eat your heart out:

>From 34041 (Elkins, who else):

Hi, Bobby. I'm glad we're still on speaking terms.

You wrote:

> 1) I knew that I was making assumptions and stereotypes 
> about your political beliefs while I was writing the post 
> and really regretted doing so because that was what had 
> annoyed me about your post (lumping law-enforcement, etc 
> under the "Law-and-Order Fascist"... I do very much 
> appreciate that you recognized the stereotype).

Well, my characterization of Moody there *was* bigoted and offensive, 
and your retaliation in kind *did* prove a highly effective means of
leading me to recognize that fact. The rebuke was warranted, and 
while the tone may have been a bit flamey for the prevailing standards
of this particular forum, it did have its desired effect. 

I'm accustomed to a much harsher mode of debate than that found here, 
actually, and can take a _lot_ without flinching. So I wouldn't feel 
too regretful, if I were you (although for the sake of the Mods, we 
should definitely try to keep it genteel in the future, and not scare 
too many horses).

In short: no harm, no foul.

On to the topics... 







From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sun Dec 19 14:37:51 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 14:37:51 -0000
Subject: UPDATE, Sunday 19th December
Message-ID: <cq43nv+k7uv@eGroups.com>


PROGRESS

To date we have coded/allocated for coding 41865 posts, of which 
39881 have actually been coded, and of these 22810 have been rejected 
(57%).

This week, with 10 people coding, we have managed 1094 posts, and 
reached post 34050 on the main list.

CODING ERRORS
Doug: 31319
Talisman: 33957

(Talisman - all this means is that somehow a post has acquired both a 
reject code and another code - easy to do & correct - it needs to be 
one or the other).

TECH STUFF
Paul - could you add Talisman to the list of names ? Thanks for 
adding Ginger.

Tim, Paul - could we fix a time for that call to discuss the screen 
designs, maybe the week after New Year, if you have time ? Or between 
Xmas and New Year if either of you are around ?

CHRISTMAS
Such is my enthusiasm for British Christmas, I'll be leaving the 
country Thursday 23rd - Tuesday 28th, and won't have Internet access 
in the fabulous converted monastry in Italy where I am being wined 
and dined on serious local cooking, and walking off the excess on 
strenuous walks through frosted vineyards, in the company of 
interesting adults..

So, those of you seeking respite in cataloguing from Xmas TV 
scheduling, hordes of kids and tinsel, contact me by Wednesday 
evening (UK time) for an allocation of posts if you need them...

Chortle, chortle.

(& still boggling at the Uncle Barry image...)

NEW CATEGORIES
Have had a bit of a go at these, so listen-up; objections dutifully 
listened to:

1.1.1.5.1 (1131) Following/breaking rules 
1.4.6 (1133) Political stereotypes

2.17.4 (1134) Sex in the WW

[The following are intended to sort out some, but not all, of the 
Snape acronyms]:
2.3.7.0 ESE!Snape
2.3.7.1 Snape & love
2.3.7.2 Snape transfigured [for bat, lethifold & dementor allegations)
2.3.7.3 Vampire!Snape
2.3.7.4 Good!Snape

3.2.2.1 (1137) Political comparisons [with Muggle world]
3.2.3.1 (1138) MoM depts
3.5.2.1 (1136) Definitions of witch/wizard/warlock
3.8.6.9 (1132) Put-outer

Finally, re Lupin and lycanthropy. We have a myriad of codes all over 
the place at the moment. I was considering creating a special section 
which brought together:

2.14.6 Werewolves [currently a subset of 'Beings']
3.4.4 Lycanthropy [currently a subset of 'Health & Physiology']
3.8.4.2 Wolfsbane Potion [currently in spells, potions etc]
3.8.4.9 Homorphus Charm [ditto]
and added Werewolf Register, Werewolf Capture Unit & Werewolf Support 
Services

What do you think? Where should it live?







From talisman22457 at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 19 16:40:52 2004
From: talisman22457 at yahoo.com (Talisman)
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 16:40:52 -0000
Subject: UPDATE, Sunday 19th December
In-Reply-To: <cq43nv+k7uv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cq4auk+etb7@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "carolynwhite2" 
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
> 
>> CODING ERRORS
> Doug: 31319
> Talisman: 33957
> 
> (Talisman - all this means is that somehow a post has acquired 
both a reject code and another code - easy to do & correct - it 
needs to be one or the other).
> 
>Hey Carolyn, you're pretty fast.  I believe I corrected 33957 
before ending my cataloguing session Sunday night. Went to double 
check after reading your post and found I'm back outside the 
firewall.  

Talisman






From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sun Dec 19 17:22:48 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:22:48 -0000
Subject: Paul - access problem for Talisman/& maybe Ginger
In-Reply-To: <cq4auk+etb7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cq4dd8+mm57@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Talisman" 
<talisman22457 at y...> wrote:
> 

> > 
> >Hey Carolyn, you're pretty fast.  I believe I corrected 33957 
> before ending my cataloguing session Sunday night. Went to double 
> check after reading your post and found I'm back outside the 
> firewall.  
> 
> Talisman


Ah - I cheat slightly on the Sunday updates, Paul has written me an 
analysis tool which enables me to track this particular type of error 
very quickly. For anything else I have to go through the posts one by 
one. (See post 609 for further details).

Alas, I knew you'd had too easy a time of it getting access ! It 
might be worth visiting [http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/myip.php] again just 
to be sure that Paul has the right computer details. Also worth going 
back to the site and seeing if the fault still happens a few hours 
later. We are having constant problems at the moment, which will be 
resolved by Paul moving over to a DSL connection rather than cable. I 
don't think that has happened just yet unfortunately.

Paul - did you unblock both Talisman and Ginger's IPs yesterday ?? 
Just wondering if the two got mixed up? Or this might be another 
variable IP..

Hoping it can be sorted...

Carolyn






From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Mon Dec 20 15:55:53 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:55:53 -0000
Subject: OT: Can there be Magic?
Message-ID: <cq6sm9+al26@eGroups.com>


Hm, Steve (Bboy_mn)....

I am in a quandry about whether to keep post 34404 and associated 
thread.

It is pure speculation, of course. No canon in sight.

What do people think?

If I kept it, I'd code to:

3.8.2 General properties and types of magic

Carolyn







From willsonkmom at msn.com  Mon Dec 20 16:19:23 2004
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (Kathy Willson)
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:19:23 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] OT: Can there be Magic?
In-Reply-To: <cq6sm9+al26@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <BAY5-F1442EEBDF2EDC7074CF3DAADA20@phx.gbl>

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From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Mon Dec 20 16:38:07 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:38:07 -0000
Subject: OT: Can there be Magic? & beginning of ESE!Lupin
In-Reply-To: <BAY5-F1442EEBDF2EDC7074CF3DAADA20@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <cq6v5f+88uv@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Kathy Willson" 
<willsonkmom at m...> wrote:
> Well how about post 32283 which is sort of the same thing?  On the 
other hand, all the posts you mention do indentify themselves as OT.

Kathy


True, it's similar - and Laurasia used the code I want to use, so 
people will pick it up, I hope.


And I think I have identified the very first Pippin ESE!Lupin post - 
see 34420. She had hopes for him back then, which I believe have 
evaporated since!

Carolyn








From willsonkmom at msn.com  Tue Dec 21 04:20:06 2004
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 04:20:06 -0000
Subject: Christmas Cheer
Message-ID: <cq889m+r964@eGroups.com>


Stop whatever you are doing and go read post 120223! Even Barry 
should enjoy this one.
And according to JKR's site, her manuscript is at the editor's 
office and a publishing date should be announced within 24 hours.
Kathy W.






From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Tue Dec 21 13:25:23 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 13:25:23 -0000
Subject: Christmas Cheer/July 16th target date...
In-Reply-To: <cq889m+r964@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cq9883+gfff@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" 
<willsonkmom at m...> wrote:
> 
> Stop whatever you are doing and go read post 120223! Even Barry 
> should enjoy this one.
> And according to JKR's site, her manuscript is at the editor's 
> office and a publishing date should be announced within 24 hours.
> Kathy W.

Very good post, I agree. Says it all!

But...how far can we get by July 16th? I am not going to do the 
maths, not before Christmas..

Carolyn







From willsonkmom at msn.com  Tue Dec 21 13:36:00 2004
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (Kathy Willson)
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 08:36:00 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Christmas Cheer/July 16th target date...
In-Reply-To: <cq9883+gfff@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <BAY5-F6602EDDA79C3893BCE953ADA30@phx.gbl>

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From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Tue Dec 21 17:57:01 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 17:57:01 -0000
Subject: New database - anyone understand Yahoo?
Message-ID: <cq9o5d+jr8g@eGroups.com>


I was trying to put the list of post allocations into a Yahoo 
database (see databases in menu on left), so that anyone could check 
where we were.

I thought maybe we could use this for people to enter their own 
groups of posts, as and when they needed them, rather than having to 
email me. Usually I can respond quickly, but not so useful if I am 
away.

However, I have run into a problem. I can't get the database to rank 
the numbers numerically - so stupid.

Basically it does this

1-xxx
1000- xxx
10000-xxx

2-xx
2000 - xxx
20000 - xx

This is incredibly un-useful. Can anyone figure a way of tricking it 
to rank in a normal numerical sequence?

Carolyn, fuming.








From timregan at microsoft.com  Tue Dec 21 18:07:50 2004
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 18:07:50 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] New database - anyone understand Yahoo?
Message-ID: <502C27106D99DB478C13DEDBFD185E15014C36C5@EUR-MSG-12.europe.corp.microsoft.com>

Hi Carolyn and all,

Off the top of my head you could try filling in the leading zeros so
that numeric and alphabetic ordering coincide. E.g. 

1-xxx
1000- xxx
10000-xxx
2-xx
2000 - xxx
20000 - xx

become

00001 - xxx
00002 - xxx
01000 - xxx
02000 - xxx
10000 - xxx
20000 - xxx

There may be some other setting that will do it without this, but I'm no
Yahoomort expert.

Cheers,

Dumbledad / Tim



From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Tue Dec 21 21:06:01 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 21:06:01 -0000
Subject: New database/lateral thinking solution
In-Reply-To: <502C27106D99DB478C13DEDBFD185E15014C36C5@EUR-MSG-12.europe.corp.microsoft.com>
Message-ID: <cqa37p+4hqo@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Tim Regan" <timregan at m...> 
wrote:
> Hi Carolyn and all,
> 
> Off the top of my head you could try filling in the leading zeros so
> that numeric and alphabetic ordering coincide. E.g. 
> 


Tim, thanks for this idea. I started to try this, but then I realised 
that it wasn't really very important to record all the past 
assignments. All we need to know is the current assignments, and 
where to pick up from. Past records can be deleted once they are done 
(I'll continue keeping a written note of them all).

So, I've re-done the table to show those numbers only. Take a look at 
it everyone - it's easy to fill in, and to add/edit a record. [Click 
on Database - there is only one database there, called, 
imaginatively, 'Current Post Allocation'; note that it only shows 
about 10 records at a time on a page, click next page if you can't 
see your name].

Would this be a useful tool to have? The only thing that argues 
against it is that I might not hear from you all so often (you might 
think this is a good thing!).

The way it would work is that you just fill in a group of post 
numbers following immediately on from the last completed assignment, 
choosing any number you feel you want to work on at a time - 100, 200 
or whatever. 

Perhaps just a useful thing to have if I am away?

RSVP

Carolyn

PS An Excel file would be an even better solution, but lots of you 
don't have the software. If we used Word files, two of you are on Mac 
and would have difficulty converting tables I think.






From timregan at microsoft.com  Wed Dec 22 13:53:24 2004
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 13:53:24 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: New database/lateral thinking solution
Message-ID: <502C27106D99DB478C13DEDBFD185E15014C3997@EUR-MSG-12.europe.corp.microsoft.com>

Hi All,

Carolyn pointed out that:
>>> An Excel file would be an even better solution, but lots of you
don't have the software <<<

Most platforms have spreadsheet or database programs that will import
and export comma separated variables (CSV) files, so you could use that.
You'll loose any complex formatting but keep the column data and the
column headings. If the Yahoomort DB doesn't work you could swap to CSV
files.

Cheers,

Tim.



From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Wed Dec 22 14:00:41 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 14:00:41 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: New database/lateral thinking solution
In-Reply-To: <cqa37p+4hqo@eGroups.com>
References: <cqa37p+4hqo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <DD93E1E1-5421-11D9-B7B9-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>

>
>  PS An Excel file would be an even better solution, but lots of you
>  don't have the software. If we used Word files, two of you are on Mac
>  and would have difficulty converting tables I think.
>
>

Excel? Spreadsheets? Not in my  opinion; they're very limited compared 
to a database.

Barry
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From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed Dec 22 14:22:39 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 14:22:39 -0000
Subject: New database/lateral thinking solution
In-Reply-To: <DD93E1E1-5421-11D9-B7B9-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <cqbvvf+uu09@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> >
> >  PS An Excel file would be an even better solution, but lots of 
you
> >  don't have the software. If we used Word files, two of you are 
on Mac
> >  and would have difficulty converting tables I think.
> >
> >
> 
> Excel? Spreadsheets? Not in my  opinion; they're very limited 
compared 
> to a database.
> 
> Barry



Nothing like as limited as a Yahoo database that can't even rank 
numbers in numerical order !

Maybe it's a bad idea .. I should keep a fiendish grip on it all, the 
better to berate people. All this pansy liberal DIY approach..pah. Do 
as I tell you, the old ways are the best ....

Carolyn
Who probably should go back to packing.






From kkearney at students.miami.edu  Wed Dec 22 15:30:47 2004
From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum)
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 15:30:47 -0000
Subject: blame
Message-ID: <cqc3v7+hm3e@eGroups.com>


Came across a few posts discussing who to blame for Crouch Jr getting 
kissed, and the general nature of blame.  Coded it to the chapter and 
the characters; any ideas for the blame aspect?

-Kelly






From willsonkmom at msn.com  Wed Dec 22 15:45:01 2004
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (Kathy Willson)
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:45:01 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] blame
In-Reply-To: <cqc3v7+hm3e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <BAY5-F515D11090267769D0DAF5ADA40@phx.gbl>

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From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed Dec 29 13:42:52 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:42:52 -0000
Subject: Hi..
Message-ID: <cquc8s+j68a@eGroups.com>


This is to let you know I am back and will be catching up with all 
your emails as soon as possible today.

Also, most of you will be aware by now that Barry has pulled out of 
the main group. He has, however, decided to stay with this project 
for the time being, and will also be posting in future on an 
invitation-only board called The Old Crowd, which many of us here 
already belong to. 

Those who are not members of TOC, and who would like to continue to 
enjoy his quite brilliant analyses of HP (not that I am biased or 
anything) should contact Kelley Thompson for further info - she is a 
moderator of the group.

He also says email him offlist if you have an interesting idea or 
theory that you want to kick around.

Carolyn






From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Thu Dec 30 17:22:30 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 17:22:30 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Hi..
In-Reply-To: <cquc8s+j68a@eGroups.com>
References: <cquc8s+j68a@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <62B5F9BE-5A87-11D9-B0D9-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>


On 29 Dec 2004, at 13:42, carolynwhite2 wrote:

>
>  This is to let you know I am back and will be catching up with all
>  your emails as soon as possible today.
>
>  Also, most of you will be aware by now that Barry has pulled out of
>  the main group. He has, however, decided to stay with this project
>  for the time being, and will also be posting in future on an
>  invitation-only board called The Old Crowd, which many of us here
>  already belong to.
>
>  Those who are not members of TOC, and who would like to continue to
>  enjoy his quite brilliant analyses of HP (not that I am biased or
>  anything) should contact Kelley Thompson for further info - she is a
>  moderator of the group.
>
>  He also says email him offlist if you have an interesting idea or
>  theory that you want to kick around.
>
>  Carolyn
>
>

Um.
Still around the catalogue, yes.
Posting on TOC? Chance would be a fine thing. I never realised that 
dropping off the main board would involve composing so many emails. I 
should have kept my mouth shut and just vanished.

And I'm pretty  sure that this bunch of cut-throat posters  scarcely 
need the responses of a doddering old fart in order to bask in the 
glory of universal approbation that befits their station as subtle 
disputants. Still... if you do come up with an interesting idea..... 
it's bound to be better than watching day-time TV, isn't it?

Barry
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From dk59us at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 31 04:59:09 2004
From: dk59us at yahoo.com (Eustace_Scrubb)
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 04:59:09 -0000
Subject: Hello, all
Message-ID: <cr2mat+qqvl@eGroups.com>


Since I've been lurking about for around a month now, getting a feel
for the cataloging, I suppose I should discard the invisibility cloak
for a moment and say, "Hi!"

I've been following the main list since sometime shortly after OoP
came out.  I come to the Potterverse having progressed from Narnia to
Middle-earth in my formative years (a long time ago in a galaxy known
as the 70s) and also taking in the fantasies of William Morris and
Lord Dunsany.  I grew up (at least some think so) to become a museum
curator, so I've spent a lot of time cataloging 3-dimensional
objects--it remains to be seen whether that's an advantage or
disadvantage on this project.       

My son, now 9 1/2, was given SS by a family friend when he was about
6.  He's always been a pretty avid reader and started into the book on
his own but got through about 9 chapters a couple of times and
stopped.  I think he got to Fluffy and couldn't take anymore at that
stage.  Instead he had me read him The Hobbit and then all of LOTR,
which took about a year.  Meantime, he'd been given CoS and the SS
video.  We'd told him he couldn't watch the video until he'd read the
book and finally the floodgates opened.  Between about Christmas 2002
and May 2003 he'd read the first four books and dragged me into it. 
So unlike those who'd gotten an earlier start on the series we only
had to wait about a month for OoP--which makes the current interregnum
a new experience, and following HPfGU's been part of that.  (I
probably shouldn't admit it, but just for my own interest and my
son's, I've been writing something that's not quite fanfiction--it's
set in the WW during the same year that OoP unfolds but is set on my
side of the pond, (upstate New York, that is) and doesn't involve any
of JKR's characters directly--mostly just as fiction-writing practice
and entertainment--on the other hand, it's rather long now and my
audience (both of us) is going to insist it gets finished.)

I've not been an overly prolific poster (especially in the last month
or so), but you may have seen me under the pen name Eustace_Scrubb.

Anyway, I'm glad to join you all and hope to make a modest
contribution to the project!  Happy New Year!

Cheers,

Doug






From dk59us at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 31 05:08:50 2004
From: dk59us at yahoo.com (Eustace_Scrubb)
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 05:08:50 -0000
Subject: Graveyards, WW Death and Burial Practices
Message-ID: <cr2mt2+cqob@eGroups.com>


And now time for a question:

In 32603 (Jan.2002)  and a fairly long thread that follows, which I'm
trying to catalog, we get a discussion of the WW's practices in
regards to disposal of the deceased--among the topics touched on are 
--burial and graveyards, including whether they are magically
protected;
--use of body parts in (mostly, but not exclusively Dark) Magic;
--location of the Potter's graves if such exist.

I can't find a category that seems to fit.  But it's clearly an
important subject and one that saw quite a lot of related posts
earlier this year due to the Cuaron-Rowling conversation about the
location of a graveyard at Hogwarts and subsequent speculation about
the role this location might play in Book 6 or Book 7.

I'd be happy for any advice--did I miss the correct category or is
this something that needs to be added?

Thanks!

Doug






From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Fri Dec 31 20:27:57 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2)
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 20:27:57 -0000
Subject: LOTR/Narnia/Graveyards, Death, Burial Practices/& Happy New Year
In-Reply-To: <cr2mt2+cqob@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <cr4cod+65oo@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Eustace_Scrubb" 
<dk59us at y...> wrote:

I come to the Potterverse having progressed from Narnia to Middle-
earth in my formative years (a long time ago in a galaxy known as the 
70s) and also taking in the fantasies of William Morris and Lord 
Dunsany. 

Carolyn:
I was a fully-paid up Tolkie in my teens as well, but sadly it has 
lost its magic for me. I re-read it about a year ago after a gap of 
about 20 years, and the boys-own aspect of the story really irritated 
me, never having been much good at the handmaiden bit. Similarly for 
Narnia. Once I found out the religious gunk I was being fed, I'm 
afraid I threw them away. I just looked for 'The King of Elfland's 
Daughter' on the shelf, and found a bookmark halfway through it from 
a few year's back. Ah well..

However, E.R.Eddison (The Worm Ouroboros etc) has survived the 
years..and I love a new author, Eoin Colfer (Artemis Fowl series). 
Jury is currently out on the Potterverse.


Doug:
So unlike those who'd gotten an earlier start on the series we only
had to wait about a month for OoP--which makes the current 
interregnum a new experience, and following HPfGU's been part of 
that. 

Carolyn:
As a relative newbie, be curious to know how you have used the HPfGU 
site - have you explored the archives much ? Are the old theories of 
interest, did you spend a lot of time reading up??


Doug:
In 32603 (Jan.2002) and a fairly long thread that follows, which I'm 
trying to catalog, we get a discussion of the WW's practices in
regards to disposal of the deceased--among the topics touched on are
--burial and graveyards, including whether they are magically
protected;
--use of body parts in (mostly, but not exclusively Dark) Magic;
--location of the Potter's graves if such exist.

I can't find a category that seems to fit. But it's clearly an
important subject and one that saw quite a lot of related posts
earlier this year due to the Cuaron-Rowling conversation about the
location of a graveyard at Hogwarts and subsequent speculation about 
the role this location might play in Book 6 or Book 7.

I'd be happy for any advice--did I miss the correct category or is
this something that needs to be added?

Carolyn:
I think this is a good topic to add, and I have put in a new category 
as a subset of 'Death & Immortality' -
1.1.5.1 Graveyards & Burial Practices

Strictly speaking, probably this should be in section 3, and not in 
meta themes, but we can always move it around later.


Doug:
Anyway, I'm glad to join you all and hope to make a modest
contribution to the project! Happy New Year!

Carolyn:
Yes, Happy New Year to everyone, even Grumpy Old Men residing in 
caves on the Welsh Border, planning to see in 2005 with the hour-long 
ABBA special on Channel 5...






From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Fri Dec 31 21:06:24 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 21:06:24 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: LOTR/Narnia/Graveyards, Death, Burial Practices/& Happy New Year
In-Reply-To: <cr4cod+65oo@eGroups.com>
References: <cr4cod+65oo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <D4012426-5B6F-11D9-8CFC-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>

>
>  Carolyn:
>  Yes, Happy New Year to everyone, even Grumpy Old Men residing in
>  caves on the Welsh Border, planning to see in 2005 with the hour-long
>  ABBA special on Channel 5...
>
>


Damn good.
Glad you reminded me.
Hope they show the one where she's wearing that white skin-tight outfit.
It makes an old man very happy.

And a Good New Year to you  all.

Barry
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