From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Sat May  1 12:54:17 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (arrowsmithbt)
Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 12:54:17 -0000
Subject: More categories?
In-Reply-To: <c6u7qs+8ntf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c706lp+i9gn@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "a_reader2003" <carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
> <arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I think you looked that up. That's cheating.
> > 
> 
> I had to re-check, I admit - its a while since I researched it last!
> 
> BTW, take a look at post 3551..
> 
> Carolyn
> Who often looks like Hel

I looked, but it's not HP I'm brushing up on before my Jury service.
Torquemada, De Sade, Koestler and Orwell seem more suitable.

BTW -  my mail service is down. Server problems. Fortunately I
can still post, so the techno-demons assigned to my case haven't
won yet.

Barry 




From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Sat May  1 12:58:02 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (kippesp)
Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 12:58:02 -0000
Subject: ISP change
Message-ID: <c706sq+sh3c@eGroups.com>

My Internet connection will be down for a bit while the phone 
company does some stuff.  The IP address may be changing as well.  
Today will probably be a low-productive day until this gets sorted 
out.




From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Sat May  1 14:03:05 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (kippesp)
Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 14:03:05 -0000
Subject: ISP change
In-Reply-To: <c706sq+sh3c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c70amp+j186@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "kippesp" <paul-groups at w...> 
wrote:
> My Internet connection will be down for a bit while the phone 
> company does some stuff.  The IP address may be changing as well.  
> Today will probably be a low-productive day until this gets sorted 
> out.

All done.  IP is same.




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sat May  1 21:42:18 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 21:42:18 -0000
Subject: New group member
Message-ID: <c715jq+nj75@eGroups.com>

Paul: Just to let you know that Kelly Kearney is about to join our 
group and will shortly need access to the catalogue site - I have 
given her the instructions; hope there are no problems.

Carolyn




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Sun May  2 02:56:38 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 02:56:38 -0000
Subject: Can't get in
Message-ID: <c71o16+d23k@eGroups.com>

I tried to get into the site tonight, and I get a message that the
address cannot be found.  It worked for me last week.  Help?

Anne





From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Sun May  2 06:32:10 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (kippesp)
Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 06:32:10 -0000
Subject: Can't get in
In-Reply-To: <c71o16+d23k@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c724la+1h3b@eGroups.com>

I've not been home tonight.  But when I got back at 11 (an hour 
after your message), my Internet connection seemed slow.  This was 
the case on Friday and on Tuesday.  (Even now it seems slow.)  
Saturday afternoon (mid evening UK, 9ish) things were fine.

So your problem may be related to this.  Try to at least "get in" on 
Sunday and post your results.  I'll evaluate my connection in the 
morning.

This is not normal.  Before Tuesday I've never had problems like 
this.



--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
wrote:
> I tried to get into the site tonight, and I get a message that the
> address cannot be found.  It worked for me last week.  Help?
> 
> Anne




From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Sun May  2 06:53:46 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 07:53:46 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue]
In-Reply-To: <c6tsk1+2fb6@eGroups.com>
References: <c6tsk1+2fb6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <75805F33-9C05-11D8-A5AF-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>


Which batch of posts do you  want me to tackle next?

I can probably find an hour or so  a day in between casting malefactors 
into durance vile.

Barry




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sun May  2 07:36:52 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 07:36:52 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue]
In-Reply-To: <75805F33-9C05-11D8-A5AF-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <c728ek+6sd9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> 
> Which batch of posts do you  want me to tackle next?
> 
> I can probably find an hour or so  a day in between casting 
malefactors 
> into durance vile.
> 
> Barry



Ok, do you want to take 4001-4500.. you will be pleased to know that 
GOF is at last published and they are beginning to settle down to 
some analysis. I followed through 3761, but so far can't find anyone 
building on that interesting idea of Tom as DD's first protege.

..and I have this vision of bemused barristers and court 
officials..'but he was only in for parking on double yellows..how did 
he get life for that ??'

Carolyn




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sun May  2 07:41:50 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 07:41:50 -0000
Subject: Very slow for me too
Message-ID: <c728nu+boki@eGroups.com>

Just to report that the connection is pretty sludgy this morning too, 
UK time. I thought it might be connected with increased traffic when 
the US woke up, but it would seem not.

Carolyn




From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Sun May  2 09:19:37 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 10:19:37 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue]
In-Reply-To: <c728ek+6sd9@eGroups.com>
References: <c728ek+6sd9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <D522CFE2-9C19-11D8-A5AF-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>

>
>  Ok, do you want to take 4001-4500.. you will be pleased to know that
>  GOF is at last published and they are beginning to settle down to
>  some analysis. I followed through 3761, but so far can't find anyone
>  building on that interesting idea of Tom as DD's first protege.
>
>  .and I have this vision of bemused barristers and court
>  officials..'but he was only in for parking on double yellows..how did
>  he get life for that ??'
>
>  Carolyn


OK; will do.

Yeah, I tried to  follow that thread myself, but no-one seems to have 
followed up on it. Maybe there were too many other goodies in GoF that 
grabbed the headlines first.

As for my eagerly awaited 'sitting in judgement' role, I see myself as 
one of the later Roman Emperors - capricious,  devious, vicious.... 
peel me a grape, somebody.

Barry
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From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Sun May  2 15:39:42 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (kippesp)
Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 15:39:42 -0000
Subject: Very slow for me too
In-Reply-To: <c728nu+boki@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c734nu+gd4m@eGroups.com>

Right now it is as good as it ever is.  I've never had a morning 
where I found it unusually slow--yet.

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "a_reader2003" 
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
> Just to report that the connection is pretty sludgy this morning 
too, 
> UK time. I thought it might be connected with increased traffic 
when 
> the US woke up, but it would seem not.
> 
> Carolyn




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Sun May  2 16:43:55 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 16:43:55 -0000
Subject: Can't get in
In-Reply-To: <c724la+1h3b@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c738gb+gni3@eGroups.com>

Nope, still can't get in, and the notice that the site can't be found
is immediate, by the way (i.e., no noticeable time spent searching for
it).  This is so frustrating; I haven't done anything yet!  :(  Sorry,
guys.

Anne


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "kippesp" <paul-groups at w...>
wrote:
> I've not been home tonight.  But when I got back at 11 (an hour 
> after your message), my Internet connection seemed slow.  This was 
> the case on Friday and on Tuesday.  (Even now it seems slow.)  
> Saturday afternoon (mid evening UK, 9ish) things were fine.
> 
> So your problem may be related to this.  Try to at least "get in" on 
> Sunday and post your results.  I'll evaluate my connection in the 
> morning.
> 
> This is not normal.  Before Tuesday I've never had problems like 
> this.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
> wrote:
> > I tried to get into the site tonight, and I get a message that the
> > address cannot be found.  It worked for me last week.  Help?
> > 
> > Anne




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sun May  2 18:22:42 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 18:22:42 -0000
Subject: UPDATE, Sunday 2nd May
Message-ID: <c73e9i+mrp4@eGroups.com>

Hm.. site got busy this week, here's what we seem to have done:

1. We are now up to 5000 posts either coded or allocated to someone. 
There are only about 7500 posts in the Yahoo club, so we are nearly 
out of there and into the main list. Butterbeers all round.

2. Some additions which have been made to the categories list:

Section 0 (rejects): 'illiterate posts' for the really unreadable
Section 1: Prophecy; Astrology 
Section 2: Patil sisters plus lots of other Hogwarts kids; Boggarts; 
Basilisk
Section 3: Sorting Hat
Section 4:
- 'just for a laugh' box: tick this after you have picked yourself up 
off the floor, even if you had to reject the post for other reasons - 
other people might enjoy too
- a text box to make comments in, primarily for the FAQ group, but 
also to explain a coding decision if you feel like it

3. Theory acronyms
Currently I have put all the acronyms from Inish Alley onto the 
categories list. However, most only ever attracted one or two posts, 
and we have decided to downgrade those ones to ordinary post status. 
Question: do you want me to take all the acronyms off now, in order 
to shorten the category list ?

4. Technical stuff
Paul's ISP has been at variable speeds all week, and he is 
investigating alternative hosts for the site to see if we can improve 
this. 

Also, the site won't be available next Friday (7th) through Sunday 
(9th). Paul is proposing an tickbox method of continuing on 
spreadsheets and will post details of this for anyone who wants to 
use it for those few days.

Alas, Anne is still locked out it seems..hope it can be resolved 
(wrings hands helplessly !)....

5. Finally, welcome to Kelly, no doubt already regretting her madness 
getting involved.

Carolyn









From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Sun May  2 20:51:31 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (Paul Kippes)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 13:51:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: {groups} [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Can't get in
In-Reply-To: <c738gb+gni3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040502205131.59664.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>

I've not seen you access the site since 23 April.  I would have seen
a log entry someplace if I was communicating.

For reference: http://24.0.225.196:8888

--- annemehr <annemehr at yahoo.com> wrote:

---------------------------------
Nope, still can't get in, and the notice that the site can't be found
is immediate, by the way (i.e., no noticeable time spent searching
for
it).  This is so frustrating; I haven't done anything yet!  :( 
Sorry,
guys.

Anne


--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "kippesp" <paul-groups at w...>
wrote:
> I've not been home tonight.  But when I got back at 11 (an hour 
> after your message), my Internet connection seemed slow.  This was 
> the case on Friday and on Tuesday.  (Even now it seems slow.)  
> Saturday afternoon (mid evening UK, 9ish) things were fine.
> 
> So your problem may be related to this.  Try to at least "get in"
on 
> Sunday and post your results.  I'll evaluate my connection in the 
> morning.
> 
> This is not normal.  Before Tuesday I've never had problems like 
> this.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
> wrote:
> > I tried to get into the site tonight, and I get a message that
the
> > address cannot be found.  It worked for me last week.  Help?
> > 
> > Anne


Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
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"http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12972rr47/M=295196.4901138.6050264.3001176/D=groups/S=1705019509:HM/EXP=1083602642/A=1894285/R=0/id=flashurl/SIG=118tuuldn/*http://companion.yahoo.com/?.cpdl=srch";var
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---------------------------------
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http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover 



From annemehr at yahoo.com  Sun May  2 21:01:44 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 21:01:44 -0000
Subject: {groups} [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Can't get in
In-Reply-To: <20040502205131.59664.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c73njo+k5jr@eGroups.com>

I got in!

After very carefully comparing the link below to what was in my
drop-down Netscape window thingy (a little technical lingo there), I
found the stupid mistake:  I had typed the address in with a period
instead of a colon before the 8888 at the end.  *sigh*

Anne

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Paul Kippes <paul-groups at w...>
wrote:
> I've not seen you access the site since 23 April.  I would have seen
> a log entry someplace if I was communicating.
> 
> For reference: http://24.0.225.196:8888
> 
> --- annemehr <annemehr at y...> wrote:
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Nope, still can't get in, and the notice that the site can't be found
> is immediate, by the way (i.e., no noticeable time spent searching
> for
> it).  This is so frustrating; I haven't done anything yet!  :( 
> Sorry,
> guys.
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
> --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "kippesp" <paul-groups at w...>
> wrote:
> > I've not been home tonight.  But when I got back at 11 (an hour 
> > after your message), my Internet connection seemed slow.  This was 
> > the case on Friday and on Tuesday.  (Even now it seems slow.)  
> > Saturday afternoon (mid evening UK, 9ish) things were fine.
> > 
> > So your problem may be related to this.  Try to at least "get in"
> on 
> > Sunday and post your results.  I'll evaluate my connection in the 
> > morning.
> > 
> > This is not normal.  Before Tuesday I've never had problems like 
> > this.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
> > wrote:
> > > I tried to get into the site tonight, and I get a message that
> the
> > > address cannot be found.  It worked for me last week.  Help?
> > > 
> > > Anne
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> var lrec_target="_top";var lrec_URL = new Array();lrec_URL[1] =
>
"http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12972rr47/M=295196.4901138.6050264.3001176/D=groups/S=1705019509:HM/EXP=1083602642/A=1894285/R=0/id=flashurl/SIG=118tuuldn/*http://companion.yahoo.com/?.cpdl=srch";var
> link="javascript:LRECopenWindow(1)";var lrec_flashfile =
>
'http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/yahoo_companion/piano_lrec.swf?clickTAG='+link+'';var
> lrec_altURL =
>
"http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12972rr47/M=295196.4901138.6050264.3001176/D=groups/S=1705019509:HM/EXP=1083602642/A=1894285/R=1/id=altimgurl/SIG=118tuuldn/*http://companion.yahoo.com/?.cpdl=srch";var
> lrec_altimg =
> "http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/yahoo_companion/lrec.gif";var
> lrec_width = 300;var lrec_height = 250;
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
>    To visit your group on the web, go to:
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>  
>    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>  
>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 	
> 		
> __________________________________
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> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
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From annemehr at yahoo.com  Sun May  2 22:19:08 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 22:19:08 -0000
Subject: Finally, I've begun
Message-ID: <c73s4s+d7pm@eGroups.com>

I've been able to do posts 1001 - 1049, with a bit of trepidation.

Trivia contests are generally Off Topic, right?  I did accept one that
contained a discussion point, but the others I've been rejecting.

I've also been rejecting speculation about whether there will be more
than 7 books.

Posts in the same thread often seem to call for different category
numbers, which I've been giving them.  There's one about Lily
beginning at 1031 that does this -- I give the various replies the
numbers I deem appropriate for each individual post.  Is this all
right, or should I try to give the whole thread the same set of numbers?

Anne, being tentative but having fun all the same





From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sun May  2 22:50:51 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 22:50:51 -0000
Subject: Finally, I've begun
In-Reply-To: <c73s4s+d7pm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c73u0b+lbqr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
wrote:
> I've been able to do posts 1001 - 1049, with a bit of trepidation.
> 
> Trivia contests are generally Off Topic, right?  I did accept one 
that contained a discussion point, but the others I've been rejecting.
> 
> I've also been rejecting speculation about whether there will be 
more than 7 books.
> 
> Posts in the same thread often seem to call for different category
> numbers, which I've been giving them.  There's one about Lily
> beginning at 1031 that does this -- I give the various replies the
> numbers I deem appropriate for each individual post.  Is this all
> right, or should I try to give the whole thread the same set of 
numbers?
> 
> Anne, being tentative but having fun all the same

Carolyn:
Hooray, I am so relieved. Glad it was something simple.

Trivia contests absolutely OT.

Depends what the speculation is about - there is a box for 
speculation post Book 7 if it is at all interesting - your call! Our 
hindsight helps a lot here.

Yes, give posts as many category numbers as you want. It depends on 
how the thread wanders about whether you always use the same set. If 
a post halfway through is patently not about the core subject, it is 
quite ok to code it up differently. The thing to bear in mind is 
which posts you might want to read in a sequence to understand an 
argument. I usually choose one core code (eg Lily) and ensure that at 
least that is checked on a thread, but then follow its wanderings 
with the rest of the codes. But, as you know, its certainly not 
unknown for a thread to depart altogether from its original theme 
<g>. In which case, you abandon even that continuity of coding. 

And don't worry if you reject hundreds - there really is a lot of 
stuff which is not book discussion.

Carolyn




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Mon May  3 05:08:05 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 05:08:05 -0000
Subject: What do I do with these?
Message-ID: <c74k3l+f8pa@eGroups.com>

What do I do with posts that list HP rumors?  To me, they are
different from predictions based on the post author's plot analyses,
although many rumors may well reflect *somebody's* plot analysis. 
Others seem to be pulled out of thin air or somewhere worse.  Though I
am tempted to reject them, I believe they are allowed under modern
HPfGU rules and probably ought to be coded up under "Predictions." 
How have you been handling them?

Anne, seriously appreciating the modern list rules







From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Mon May  3 08:05:09 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 08:05:09 -0000
Subject: What do I do with these?
In-Reply-To: <c74k3l+f8pa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c74ufl+kdsm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
wrote:
> What do I do with posts that list HP rumors?  

Carolyn:
Mainly I would reject them. Just occasionally they are accompanied by 
an interesting nugget of info (perhaps an interview with JKR) which 
makes them worth coding, but not often. Also, so much of it has been 
overtaken by events (eg who is to die in the books), so it is of no 
interest to later readers. However, do check the 'just for a laugh' 
box if they are spectacularly funny or wrong !




From kkearney at students.miami.edu  Mon May  3 15:57:57 2004
From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum)
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 15:57:57 -0000
Subject: Hello, and may I have some posts?
Message-ID: <c75q65+qni0@eGroups.com>

Hello all.  Just thought I'd say hi before I got started.  You 
probably know me by my HPfGU handle, Corinth, but I'm going to stick 
to my real name around here (just to add confusion with Kelley).

Caroline, may I have my first batch of posts?  Sorry to take up space 
on the board with this, but I left your e-mail address at home.

-Kelly




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Mon May  3 16:32:26 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 16:32:26 -0000
Subject: Hello, and may I have some posts?
In-Reply-To: <c75q65+qni0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c75s6q+u557@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "corinthum" <kkearney at s...> 
wrote:

> 
> Caroline, may I have my first batch of posts?  

Hi Kelly

Here's your first batch of posts: 5001-5500. Let us know what you 
think of the system !

Carolyn




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Tue May  4 01:11:51 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 01:11:51 -0000
Subject: A coding question
Message-ID: <c76qkn+ker5@eGroups.com>

Post 1319 on the old Club makes predictions for book 4 and in general.
 So far, so good.  It also theorises that Snape had been in love with
Lily.  Now, since this is not a LOLLIPOPS post per se (as LOLLIPOPS
hadn't even been acronymed yet), I don't code it as a LOLLIPOPS post,
do I?  It would be impossible to do that sort of coding consistently,
since I don't have InishAlley memorised.

Just checking...

Anne





From kkearney at students.miami.edu  Tue May  4 03:13:43 2004
From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum)
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 03:13:43 -0000
Subject: When in doubt...?
Message-ID: <c771p7+bqrt@eGroups.com>

How conservative or liberal are we being when accepting or rejecting a
post?  

For example, I just looked at a post that introduces the "Lily's
family might have all been wizards, and Petunia a squib" theory.  It
doesn't provide any real canon for the idea (just comments that
Petunia seemed jealous of Lily).  I don't know if this was the first
time the idea was presented, but I know it's been discussed in much
more detail since; this post wouldn't be very useful to someone
looking into this theory in detail.

So, accept, since it does suggest a valid theory?  Or reject, since it
doesn't really contribute anything significant to said theory?

Thanks,
Kelly




From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Tue May  4 03:53:29 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (kippesp)
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 03:53:29 -0000
Subject: IWIKTAB
Message-ID: <c7743p+akvf@eGroups.com>

I wish I knew the acronyms better.  Post 4533's last paragraph needs 
a category, but I didn't find one.

How are the various speculation questions being handled?  All 
those, "I wonder if ...." posts.





From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Tue May  4 07:36:38 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 07:36:38 -0000
Subject: A coding question
In-Reply-To: <c76qkn+ker5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c77h66+qt2l@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
wrote:
> Post 1319 on the old Club makes predictions for book 4 and in 
general.
>  So far, so good.  It also theorises that Snape had been in love 
with
> Lily.  Now, since this is not a LOLLIPOPS post per se (as LOLLIPOPS
> hadn't even been acronymed yet), I don't code it as a LOLLIPOPS 
post,
> do I?  It would be impossible to do that sort of coding 
consistently,
> since I don't have InishAlley memorised.
> 
> Just checking...
> 
> Anne

Carolyn:
No, only actually LOLLIPOPS goes on that code..and its interesting 
how often the idea had come up before that acronym was invented !




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Tue May  4 07:48:20 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 07:48:20 -0000
Subject: When in doubt...?
In-Reply-To: <c771p7+bqrt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c77hs4+u9gu@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "corinthum" <kkearney at s...> 
wrote:
> How conservative or liberal are we being when accepting or 
rejecting a
> post?  
> 
> For example, I just looked at a post that introduces the "Lily's
> family might have all been wizards, and Petunia a squib" theory.  It
> doesn't provide any real canon for the idea (just comments that
> Petunia seemed jealous of Lily).  I don't know if this was the first
> time the idea was presented, but I know it's been discussed in much
> more detail since; this post wouldn't be very useful to someone
> looking into this theory in detail.
> 
> So, accept, since it does suggest a valid theory?  Or reject, since 
it
> doesn't really contribute anything significant to said theory?
> 
> Thanks,
> Kelly

Carolyn:
Yes, this is where it gets tricky. What I have been doing whenever 
this sort of thing comes up is decide how interesting the point 
is..where I know its been done to death later, with canon, I reject 
and code to 'nothing new'. But, for instance, there was a short 
little post I found speculating that Tom Riddle was an early proto-
type for Harry, but went bad. Nothing to support it, but it was such 
an interesting idea, and IIRC not widely discussed, that I coded it 
into Voldie, Harry & Dumbledore.

I think the perspective to take is to think of trawling back through 
the posts coded to a particular topic and anticipate what you, 
personally, might hope to find. This might consist of long threads 
thrashing out a particular point, with loads of canon; examinations 
of set-piece theories; plus lots of little short, sharp ideas that 
stand on their own, have no back-up, but could just be true, 
especially with hindsight.

Do you agree ?

Carolyn





From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Tue May  4 07:59:36 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 07:59:36 -0000
Subject: IWIKTAB
In-Reply-To: <c7743p+akvf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c77ih8+d13q@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "kippesp" <paul-groups at w...> 
wrote:
> I wish I knew the acronyms better.  Post 4533's last paragraph 
needs 
> a category, but I didn't find one.
> 
> How are the various speculation questions being handled?  All 
> those, "I wonder if ...." posts.

Carolyn:
I would probably code this post Ginny/TRIOshipping/speculationOOP.

There are a set of boxes for forward speculation at the end of the 
book/chapter listings in section 1. Essentially, by this point (ie 
post 4533), nothing more is likely to go into GOF speculation as the 
book is published, so it has to be speculation for Book 5 and 
onwards. 

On the theory acronyms, they don't matter yet, as they didn't really 
start happening until about post 20000 onwards. We shouldn't code any 
thing to them except the posts coining them, and subsequent related 
posts. I think we are also agreed that if the acronym only generated 
one or two posts, then we will downgrade it from its heading status 
and just code it up like any other post.

However, if we do this, and the acronyms are not all listed on our 
menu, this is why Barry asked earlier whether a hotbutton link to the 
Inish Alley listing might be useful on the finished site for members.

Thoughts ?
Carolyn




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Tue May  4 10:56:58 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 10:56:58 -0000
Subject: Anne - more posts for you
Message-ID: <c77stq+ba85@eGroups.com>

Anne

I replied to your email last night, but it bounced so here is my 
reply again. Would you like to take posts 5501-6000 ?

Cheers
Carolyn




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Tue May  4 13:01:40 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 13:01:40 -0000
Subject: Anne - more posts for you/"Nothing new"/acronyms
In-Reply-To: <c77stq+ba85@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7847k+aad7@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "a_reader2003"
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
> Anne
> 
> I replied to your email last night, but it bounced so here is my 
> reply again. Would you like to take posts 5501-6000 ?
> 
> Cheers
> Carolyn

Thanks!  Hmmm, don't know why I bounced, my inbox isn't full, and I
received one from Barnes and Noble this morning...

Based on your answer to Kelly, I think I've been accepting a few too
many posts -- so I can be a little quicker with the "Nothing new"
category, eh?  This suggests a second stage to the project (why do I
hear screaming?) -- after all the coding is done, combing through the
categories to cull them even further.  After all, we're bound to get
thousands of, say, "Harry Potter" posts, but how are you *really*
going to know what to keep until you can see them all together? 
Especially since each of us has no idea what the others have coded up?  

On the acronym categories:  while their presence does make scrolling
more tedious, won't it be easier to decide which to remove in
hindsight?  Or do you actually know already which ones only have one
or two posts?  If you already know which ones to get rid of, I think
I'd vote for doing so now because they certainly slow me down,
especially scrolling through the character names.  All those extra
seconds will add up over thousands of posts.

Anne





From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Tue May  4 14:39:35 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 14:39:35 -0000
Subject: Anne - more posts for you/"Nothing new"/acronyms
In-Reply-To: <c7847k+aad7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c789v7+a27j@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 

>This suggests a second stage to the project (why do I hear 
screaming?) -- after all the coding is done, combing through the 
categories to cull them even further.  

Carolyn:
No, you are absolutely right, this has to be stage two, and has 
always been my intention (although I cannily didn't tell anyone !). I 
was thinking only this morning on how best to organise it. The chief 
difficulty is that at present you can click on the 's' (=show) after 
each category, and see a list of the posts coded there, but it is not 
a live link showing the full texts of those posts.

If it were possible to run through a live list of those actual posts, 
as we are doing during the coding process, we could quickly edit or 
change those which (on second thoughts) shouldn't be in that 
category, or were just endless repetition of the same point.

The reason we can't do this yet is that Paul is still pondering on 
how to write this routine, which will be essentially how club members 
eventually get to see the posts. (Although it will be locked, and not 
editable, obviously). I suspect that we will additionally have to 
break strings of posts into separate threads (arranged in date 
order), just to keep the thing managable.

PAUL: any comments here ? I know the essential problem is about the 
number and size of entries which might be called up by any search. On 
another commercial database I worked on, we had a similar problem, 
which I gather was solved by creating 'temporary' pages for every 
search you did using multiple criteria. I believe the technical term 
is 'record set' (but don't quote me !).

Another reason for starting to work on this problem now is that there 
is a long way to go, and I think we'd all find it quite useful (dare 
I say exciting ?), to see this edited list building up behind us as 
we go on. If necessary, we could even launch part of it to the 
startled membership as we continue to work on the project..



> On the acronym categories:  while their presence does make scrolling
> more tedious, won't it be easier to decide which to remove in
> hindsight?  Or do you actually know already which ones only have one
> or two posts?  If you already know which ones to get rid of, I think
> I'd vote for doing so now because they certainly slow me down,
> especially scrolling through the character names.  All those extra
> seconds will add up over thousands of posts.
> 

Carolyn:
I don't know which ones off-hand, but Dicey does - she posted about 
this a week or so ago. I've been dithering over it - on balance, I'd 
rather take the whole lot off rather than leave some, I think. 

What does everyone else think ? Happy to do it in the interests of 
speed.




From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Tue May  4 16:19:58 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (kippesp)
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 16:19:58 -0000
Subject: Project development
Message-ID: <c78fre+hkqk@eGroups.com>

Alternative 1: Heidi would permit us to use the fictionalley.org 
server with a donation to compensate FA for the bandwidth.  That 
would solve bandwidth issues.  But during prime time US (4pm-8pm), 
the server can sometimes become slow.  For this project, we probably 
wouldn't notice.

Alternative 2: Sourceforge.net provides many services that would may 
allow this project to be hosted there.  I don't know how much disk 
quota we'd get.  For the database, we need 400 MB now and probably a 
spare 600 MB of slack.

Alternative 3: Get our own server.  (maybe someday, but not now.)

Alternative 4: Stick with my server.

Issues with alternative 2: 

1) Full email addresses are in the database.  You may not see them, 
but they are there.  I did this on purpose since an archive is an 
archive of everything.  This shouldn't be a problem since the 
display can be controlled.

2) Post contents would need to be restricted from public view.  We'd 
be in loads of trouble otherwise.

3) The PHP could would need to be open source.  Not a big deal.  
It's sloppy anyway.

4) Access rights would need to be implements.  This means we'd need 
individual passwords and such.  

Benefits of 2:

1) I'd really, really like to bring on Mr. P to help develop.  Going 
with sourceforge would help to do that.  He has a high interest 
level and probably higher than mine in seeing this through to 
completion.  This really is my main motivation for finding hosting 
alterntatives.

2) It would be easier to access.  No more firewall hoops.

We really do need another developer.  I don't expect anyone other 
than Mr. P to volunteer.  Mr. P doesn't know PHP, but he seems 
enthusiastic about learning.  My only contact with him has been via 
email.

Services provided by sourceforge:
http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=753&group_id=1


Issues with alternatives 1 & 2:

1) We could have multiple developers.  But each person would be 
responsible to configure his or her PC.  A total mess.  FA's server 
is a production server and not available for development.  I think 
we all see the problems with planning on developing on my home PC.





From annemehr at yahoo.com  Wed May  5 04:51:39 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 04:51:39 -0000
Subject: New categories needed?
Message-ID: <c79rsr+kgt7@eGroups.com>

There was no category for "Veela," might we need one (under Beings, I
suppose)?

Also, under the general category of "Magic" (3.8), should we have
something for "Life Debts" or "Ancient Magic?"  I had a post touching
on life debts, and just coded it under "General magic, types of magic"
(IIRC), category 3.8.2 .

Anne





From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed May  5 07:49:27 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 07:49:27 -0000
Subject: New categories needed?
In-Reply-To: <c79rsr+kgt7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7a6a7+2fd3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
wrote:
> There was no category for "Veela," might we need one (under Beings, 
I
> suppose)?
> 
> Also, under the general category of "Magic" (3.8), should we have
> something for "Life Debts" or "Ancient Magic?"  I had a post 
touching
> on life debts, and just coded it under "General magic, types of 
magic"
> (IIRC), category 3.8.2 .
> 
> Anne

Carolyn:

I have added 'Veela' to Beings, and 'Ancient Magic'. Life debts..hm.. 
will think more on that, not feeling incisive this morning !




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Wed May  5 14:46:00 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 14:46:00 -0000
Subject: What IS a Life Debt?  Was:Re: New categories needed?
In-Reply-To: <c7a6a7+2fd3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7aun8+10mp1@eGroups.com>

 
> Carolyn:
> 
> I have added 'Veela' to Beings, and 'Ancient Magic'. Life debts..hm.. 
> will think more on that, not feeling incisive this morning !

Does anyone remember if a Life Debt is actually a form of ancient
magic?  Because if it is, it codes up under that category.

Anne
finding coding kind of addictive





From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed May  5 15:55:03 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 15:55:03 -0000
Subject: What IS a Life Debt?  Was:Re: New categories needed?
In-Reply-To: <c7aun8+10mp1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7b2on+1npv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
wrote:

> 
> Does anyone remember if a Life Debt is actually a form of ancient
> magic?  Because if it is, it codes up under that category.
> 
> Anne
> finding coding kind of addictive




<g> I know what you mean, I work from home and I'm on the web a 
lot..its a bit too easy to nip in to the catalogue for half an hour!

>From memory, I don't think it is ancient magic exactly. People have 
*interpreted* it that way, but it seems to me more a sort of moral 
code or cultural obligation within the WW. Would it be possible to 
code it to either Snape or Pettigrew (assume the discussion refers to 
one of them) ? Or possibly we should have a more explicit category 
within section 1 somewhere ? Want to suggest a category somewhere?

Carolyn
still dithering




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Wed May  5 19:51:40 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 19:51:40 -0000
Subject: What IS a Life Debt?  Was:Re: New categories needed?
In-Reply-To: <c7b2on+1npv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7bgkc+pv3l@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "a_reader2003"
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Does anyone remember if a Life Debt is actually a form of ancient
> > magic?  Because if it is, it codes up under that category.
> > 
> > Anne
> > finding coding kind of addictive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <g> I know what you mean, I work from home and I'm on the web a 
> lot..its a bit too easy to nip in to the catalogue for half an hour!
> 
> From memory, I don't think it is ancient magic exactly. People have 
> *interpreted* it that way, but it seems to me more a sort of moral 
> code or cultural obligation within the WW. Would it be possible to 
> code it to either Snape or Pettigrew (assume the discussion refers to 
> one of them) ? Or possibly we should have a more explicit category 
> within section 1 somewhere ? Want to suggest a category somewhere?
> 
> Carolyn
> still dithering

It's just that I know there will be posts discussing the nature of
life debts, which won't necessarily fit under people's names.  Still,
I am perfectly happy to put them where I did the first one: under
category 3.8.2: General properties and types of magic.  After all,
there probably won't be so many of them so as to swamp the category. 
I am glad you added the "Ancient Magic" category, though.

Anne
who came across a post yesterday speculating that LV attacked Harry
because he'd heard the first part of ST's first prophecy, but failed
because he didn't know the rest of it.  O.o   It was #5574; I flagged
under "Admin Flags" 




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed May  5 20:29:16 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 20:29:16 -0000
Subject: Messages in a bottle (was What IS a Life Debt?)
In-Reply-To: <c7bgkc+pv3l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7biqs+uvj2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
wrote:

> who came across a post yesterday speculating that LV attacked Harry
> because he'd heard the first part of ST's first prophecy, but failed
> because he didn't know the rest of it.  O.o   It was #5574; I 
flagged
> under "Admin Flags"

Carolyn:
?? Had a quick look at this one - are we talking the same post ? Its 
actually very funny (to us), as its someone speculating on how 
difficult it will be to code up their post at some point in the 
future, and feeling sorry for people tasked with the job !

Actually, shortly I shall be able to talk *directly to the 
manufacturers*...as I am going with the London group to one of the 
first showings of POA, and it seems Neil (aka Flying Ford Anglia) 
will be there..hah !




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed May  5 20:39:07 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 20:39:07 -0000
Subject: Project development/ weekend access to site
Message-ID: <c7bjdb+ragm@eGroups.com>

Paul

Just wondered if you were able to update us at all on which way you 
had decided to go with the systems development/site hosting issues?

Also, re Friday 7th through Sunday 9th - probably not a good idea for 
us to try using spreadsheets. I have just remembered the early 
discussions about this, and the lack of compatibility between 
people's systems. We'll just have to take a break for a few days 
while you are out of town. Oh no, I shall have to do some housework 
after all.. :(

Carolyn




From kkearney at students.miami.edu  Wed May  5 20:48:51 2004
From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum)
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 20:48:51 -0000
Subject: What IS a Life Debt?  Was:Re: New categories needed?
In-Reply-To: <c7aun8+10mp1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7bjvj+qg5s@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
wrote:
>  
> > Carolyn:
> > 
> > I have added 'Veela' to Beings, and 'Ancient Magic'. Life 
debts..hm.. 
> > will think more on that, not feeling incisive this morning !
> 
> Does anyone remember if a Life Debt is actually a form of ancient
> magic?  Because if it is, it codes up under that category.
> 
> Anne
> finding coding kind of addictive

I'm pretty sure the idea of a "life debt" is a reader creation, 
rather than stated canon fact.  Dumbledore mentions the idea, but it 
is never defined or even confirmed to exist (outside a persons' mind).

That said, it is an idea that is discussed quite often, so I vote for 
it having its own category, but not as a subset of ancient magic.

-Kelly




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Wed May  5 21:11:03 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 21:11:03 -0000
Subject: Messages in a bottle (was What IS a Life Debt?)
In-Reply-To: <c7biqs+uvj2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7bl97+3lqj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "a_reader2003"
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
> wrote:
> 
> > who came across a post yesterday speculating that LV attacked Harry
> > because he'd heard the first part of ST's first prophecy, but failed
> > because he didn't know the rest of it.  O.o   It was #5574; I 
> flagged
> > under "Admin Flags"
> 
> Carolyn:
> ?? Had a quick look at this one - are we talking the same post ? Its 
> actually very funny (to us), as its someone speculating on how 
> difficult it will be to code up their post at some point in the 
> future, and feeling sorry for people tasked with the job !

Anne:
Oops.  Accidentally gave you the Id number (whatever that is) instead
of the post number.  It's actually post #5575!

And, yes, it was fun reading about their plans to categorise posts and
begin the FAQ!
> 
> Actually, shortly I shall be able to talk *directly to the 
> manufacturers*...as I am going with the London group to one of the 
> first showings of POA, and it seems Neil (aka Flying Ford Anglia) 
> will be there..hah !

Lucky, lucky you!  I coded his very first post; it was off-topic, but
I flagged it anyway, with an Admin flag, because it was his first. 
Those "manufacturers" seem to be long gone -- I wonder if he lurks
anymore, even, though I seem to remember him posting when I was new,
in Autumn '02.

Anne





From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed May  5 21:16:27 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 21:16:27 -0000
Subject: What IS a Life Debt?  Was:Re: New categories needed?
In-Reply-To: <c7bjvj+qg5s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7bljb+ujc7@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "corinthum" <kkearney at s...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > Does anyone remember if a Life Debt is actually a form of ancient
> > magic?  Because if it is, it codes up under that category.
> > 
> > Anne
> > finding coding kind of addictive
> 

> I'm pretty sure the idea of a "life debt" is a reader creation, 
> rather than stated canon fact.  Dumbledore mentions the idea, but 
it is never defined or even confirmed to exist (outside a persons' 
mind).
> 
> That said, it is an idea that is discussed quite often, so I vote 
for it having its own category, but not as a subset of ancient magic.
> 
> -Kelly

Carolyn:
I have just looked up the key quote in POA, which is as follows (Ch 
22):

(DD)'Pettigrew owes his life to you. You have sent Voldemort a deputy 
who is in your debt. When one wizard saves another wizard's life, it 
creates a certain bond between them.. and I am much mistaken if 
Voldemort wants his servant in the debt of Harry Potter.'
.. 'This is magic at its deepest, its most impenetrable, Harry'.

I don't think 'deepest, most impenetrable' is necessarily quite the 
same thing as 'ancient', so on the basis of this I have put in 'life 
debt' as a new category as a subset of types of magic.

Ok ??




From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Wed May  5 21:26:32 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (Paul Kippes)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 14:26:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: {groups} [HPFGU-Catalogue] Project development/ weekend access to site
In-Reply-To: <c7bjdb+ragm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040505212632.7988.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com>

I won't be able to know for certain until I go through the steps of
putting the project on Sourceforge.  I can't spend the time until
after I get back.  I told Mr. P we should have a solution in one
month.




--- a_reader2003 <carolynwhite2 at aol.com> wrote:

---------------------------------
Paul

Just wondered if you were able to update us at all on which way you 
had decided to go with the systems development/site hosting issues?

Also, re Friday 7th through Sunday 9th - probably not a good idea for

us to try using spreadsheets. I have just remembered the early 
discussions about this, and the lack of compatibility between 
people's systems. We'll just have to take a break for a few days 
while you are out of town. Oh no, I shall have to do some housework 
after all.. :(

Carolyn


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From dicentra at xmission.com  Wed May  5 21:33:54 2004
From: dicentra at xmission.com (Dicentra spectabilis)
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 21:33:54 -0000
Subject: Various comments
Message-ID: <c7bmk2+soco@eGroups.com>

I've been offline for a few weeks, so sorry to pipe up so late.

Barry:
BTW - you've a category for 'humour in the books' - how about one for
humour in posts? They can be entertaining in their own right but may
otherwise be rejected as adding nothing new to the discussion.

Carolyn:
No kidding ? Too funny. I think we should simply have a category
called 'just for a laugh' or some such...

Dicey:
"Just for a laugh" would be good for posts that don't contain canon
discussion.  There are, however, other posts that do contain canon
discussion AND are hilarious (notably TBAY posts).  If there's a
category called "Funny" or something like that, we could flag HPFGU
humor and in-jokes.

Barry:
Got to ask, is 1.3.4. intended for the sort of thing you've come up
against, or is it intended to be used for retrospective analysis - as
in "if we look back it's obvious that...? 'Cos I've been using it in
the former case - as in " Here's something we ought to take notice of
- bet it means something, but I'm not sure what." 

Dicey:
I don't think there's any need to differentiate between discussing
possible clues (whose meaning we don't know yet) and known clues
(whose meaning we do know).

Carolyn:
Returning to my problem, I was wondering whether to add a category
called 'prophecy' to the section on free-will, determinism etc. There
have been a lot of spot-on predictions about what both Trelawny's
prophecies were about; it might be useful to pull them out to read
separately. I have been linking them into the last-but-one chapter in
OOP where DD finally 'reveals' what it was all about, or the prophecy
chapter in POA so far.

Dicey:
"Prophecy" is definitely a separate category.  The issue itself is
dealt with in the books.  If a post speculates on what a Prophecy
means, you tick both "Prophecy" and 1.3.4.  If the post speculates on
how prophecy affects free will or whether Ron is a seer, you tick
"Prophecy" only.  If the post speculates on what happened to Sirius's
motorcycle, it's 1.3.4.

Barry:
Hate to keep doing this, but is it worthwhile listing the Sorting Hat
as a magical object in it's own right as a Magical Item?

Dicey:
I recommend that the Sorting Hat be in the Magical Items list. 
There's plenty of speculation on how its magic works.

Barry:
The problem is, the list is enormous already - if it gets much longer
we might as well give 'em the damn files and tell 'em it's all in
there somewhere.

Dicey:
Having a buttload of categories is a good thing -- or at least an
inevitable thing -- on HPfGU.  The more categories we have, the better
the search engine.  We also get bragging rights on how complex and
deep our discussions are, and the number of categories supports
arguments that HP is indeed worthy of academic study.

Barry:
Newer posters have independently developed many of the same thought
paths but probably haven't bothered to give them titles. Hopefully, by
defining every post by category, you won't need to know the acronym to
access the general theory, though it could be a useful shortcut *if*
you know the acronym. How many do?

Dicey:
I hesitate to key Snaped-loved-Lily theories under LOLLIPOPS if they
were written before the acronym was coined.  Maybe under "Snape/Lily"
ships (when the user selects the category) LOLLIPOPS is a subcategory.
 People can either see *all* the Snape/Lily ship posts or just the
LOLLIPOPS ships or just the pre-LOLLIPOPS ships.  Or not. :D

Barry:
The implications of this are exercising the minds on site - quite
entertaining. But since it's all based on inaccurate information
coupled with pre-publication hysteria I'm rejecting them all as "off
topic".

Dicey:
Would a "False Rumors" category be worthwhile?

Carolyn:
Ah, now we differ here. I think that provid[ed] TBAY posts are
identified as such in their subject line, as a warning to the
squeamish, they should take their place amongst the other posts, and
be coded up the same way. I wouldn't want them shuffled off anywhere
obscure. 

Dicey:
The problem is that TBAY was alive and well for a couple of months
before the TBAY prefix was implemented (the result of the first TBAY
war [TBacle] on the admin list).  The term "Theory Bay" didn't exist
until Tabouli coined it at the beginning of TBacle I.  I'm certain
that some readers will want to be able to call up *all* TBAY-style
posts, not just those that have the prefix.  I know I would.  TBAY
developed gradually and spontaneously.  I'd like to see how it did that.

So, when a thread is mixed TBAY and essay style, we should key posts
as TBAY when the writer uses the TBAY style but not if the writer uses
essay style (even though it has TBAY-style quotage or a TBAY prefix).

As for the mixed threads being listed as a complete thread, yes, I
think they should be kept together.  The Stoned!Harry thread, for
example, was a brilliant mix of TBAY- and essay-style posts.

Anne:
Those "manufacturers" seem to be long gone -- I wonder if
[flyingfordanglia] lurks anymore, even, though I seem to remember him
posting when I was new, in Autumn '02.

Dicey:
Neil was a Moderator until 17 Apr 03: I don't know the extent of his
lurkage, but sometimes he pops in on OTC.

--Dicey




From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Thu May  6 06:30:43 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 07:30:43 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Project development/ weekend access to site
In-Reply-To: <c7bjdb+ragm@eGroups.com>
References: <c7bjdb+ragm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <E6EE0EBA-9F26-11D8-9D1E-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>


On 5 May 2004, at 21:39, a_reader2003 wrote:

> Paul
>
>  Just wondered if you were able to update us at all on which way you
>  had decided to go with the systems development/site hosting issues?
>
>  Also, re Friday 7th through Sunday 9th - probably not a good idea for
>  us to try using spreadsheets. I have just remembered the early
>  discussions about this, and the lack of compatibility between
>  people's systems. We'll just have to take a break for a few days
>  while you are out of town. Oh no, I shall have to do some housework
>  after all.. :(
>
>  Carolyn
>
>


Have I missed something important?

I've been short of time over the past few days and have tended to do a 
quick scans on the messages. Maybe I've been too cavalier in my 
readings.
I  did read Paul's post listing various options re: servers etc. but as 
a technological barbarian most of it went over my head.
What's  happening from the 7th - 9th? I was hoping  to get stuck in 
over this coming weekend.
Can it be that my keyboard will be torn from my (un)resisting
fingers?

Barry

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From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Thu May  6 06:36:54 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (Paul Kippes)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 23:36:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: {groups} Re: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Project development/ weekend access to site
In-Reply-To: <E6EE0EBA-9F26-11D8-9D1E-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <20040506063654.42386.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>

I'll be out of town.  I have a fear about leaving my computer on for
extended periods when I'll be hundreds of miles away.

The only backup solution I could come up with was to save the
categories (vertical) into an Excel spreadsheet.  Then with post
numbers across the top, people would just mark off the category's of
the various posts.  Once I get back, all the data would need to be
entered.  (Could be automatic, but I wasn't thinking low-tech.)

Or we could just call it a vacation for everyone!


--- Barry Arrowsmith <arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com> wrote:
> 
> On 5 May 2004, at 21:39, a_reader2003 wrote:
> 
> > Paul
> >
> >  Just wondered if you were able to update us at all on which way
> you
> >  had decided to go with the systems development/site hosting
> issues?
> >
> >  Also, re Friday 7th through Sunday 9th - probably not a good
> idea for
> >  us to try using spreadsheets. I have just remembered the early
> >  discussions about this, and the lack of compatibility between
> >  people's systems. We'll just have to take a break for a few days
> >  while you are out of town. Oh no, I shall have to do some
> housework
> >  after all.. :(
> >
> >  Carolyn
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Have I missed something important?
> 
> I've been short of time over the past few days and have tended to
> do a 
> quick scans on the messages. Maybe I've been too cavalier in my 
> readings.
> I  did read Paul's post listing various options re: servers etc.
> but as 
> a technological barbarian most of it went over my head.
> What's  happening from the 7th - 9th? I was hoping  to get stuck in
> 
> over this coming weekend.
> Can it be that my keyboard will be torn from my (un)resisting
> fingers?
> 
> Barry
> 
> 



	
		
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From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Thu May  6 08:23:07 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 08:23:07 -0000
Subject: Various comments
In-Reply-To: <c7bmk2+soco@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7cslb+uh3t@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Dicentra spectabilis" 
<dicentra at x> wrote:

> "Just for a laugh" would be good for posts that don't contain canon
> discussion.  There are, however, other posts that do contain canon
> discussion AND are hilarious (notably TBAY posts).  If there's a
> category called "Funny" or something like that, we could flag HPFGU
> humor and in-jokes.
> 
Carolyn: this category has been added in section 4 of the list.

> 
> Dicey:
> "Prophecy" is definitely a separate category.  

Carolyn: I added it as a sub-category under 'Free will' in section 1
> 
> Dicey:
> I recommend that the Sorting Hat be in the Magical Items list. 
> There's plenty of speculation on how its magic works.

Carolyn: Sorting hat has been added as sub-section within Hogwarts 
School/sorting processes
> 

> Dicey:
> I hesitate to key Snaped-loved-Lily theories under LOLLIPOPS if they
> were written before the acronym was coined.  Maybe 
under "Snape/Lily" ships (when the user selects the category) 
LOLLIPOPS is a subcategory. People can either see *all* the 
Snape/Lily ship posts or just the LOLLIPOPS ships or just the pre-
LOLLIPOPS ships.  Or not. :D

Carolyn: yes, this is very much what I envisaged. Posts should only 
be coded to the theory acronym if it is actually about that named 
theory.

> 
> Barry:
> The implications of this are exercising the minds on site - quite
> entertaining. But since it's all based on inaccurate information
> coupled with pre-publication hysteria I'm rejecting them all as "off
> topic".
> 
> Dicey:
> Would a "False Rumors" category be worthwhile?

Carolyn: I have a reject category called 'mistakes/perpetrating 
mistakes', plus there are the speculation boxes just after the 
listings of the books/chapters at the end of section 1. Enough ??


>> 
> Dicey:
> The problem is that TBAY was alive and well for a couple of months
> before the TBAY prefix was implemented (the result of the first TBAY
> war [TBacle] on the admin list).  
> 
Carolyn: thanks for this insight.. I have added 'TBAY' as a box under 
Admin at the end. This we can tick when a post is obviously TBAY, but 
hasn't been given that prefix in its post title.

> 
> 
> Dicey:
> Neil was a Moderator until 17 Apr 03: I don't know the extent of his
> lurkage, but sometimes he pops in on OTC.
> 
Carolyn: I'll see if I can entice him on to the catalogue team when 
we meet in June !




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Thu May  6 08:50:52 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 08:50:52 -0000
Subject: New member - Severely Sigune
Message-ID: <c7cu9c+qfc1@eGroups.com>

Paul

Could you set up Sigune for access to the catalogue site ? She has 
just joined our team.

Thanks
Carolyn




From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Thu May  6 18:24:46 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 19:24:46 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: others
In-Reply-To: <c7cslb+uh3t@eGroups.com>
References: <c7cslb+uh3t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <A71F6276-9F8A-11D8-908D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>

I suspect that a category  "Criticism and Evaluation'  may be useful.
Have a look at 4029.

Barry




From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Thu May  6 19:08:57 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 20:08:57 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: others
In-Reply-To: <A71F6276-9F8A-11D8-908D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
References: <c7cslb+uh3t@eGroups.com> <A71F6276-9F8A-11D8-908D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <D3255A31-9F90-11D8-908D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>


On 6 May 2004, at 19:24, Barry Arrowsmith wrote:

> I suspect that a category? "Criticism and Evaluation'? may be useful.
>  Have a look at 4029.
>
>  Barry
>
>


....then add in post 4071....  with a mention of the dreaded plot 
holes, social satire and  JKR's response to reader feedback.....


Barry
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From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Thu May  6 19:33:36 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 19:33:36 -0000
Subject: others
In-Reply-To: <D3255A31-9F90-11D8-908D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <c7e3ug+2a6s@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> 
> On 6 May 2004, at 19:24, Barry Arrowsmith wrote:
> 
> > I suspect that a category? "Criticism and Evaluation'? may be 
useful.
> >  Have a look at 4029.

> ....then add in post 4071....  with a mention of the dreaded plot 
> holes, social satire and  JKR's response to reader feedback.....
> 





Hm.. the heart of the matter & after OOP what drew me in to seek the 
company of other concerned nutters..er, HP readers & critics. Trust 
Joywitch to begin on it early in the club.

I've coded earlier stuff like this to three different places, 
depending on the slant:
1.3.2 narrative style
4.1.1/2/3 Children or adult books/genre, reading level & controversies
4.5 JKR interviews

These ones I would tentatively say are 1.3.2, but with some other 
coding depending on the examples that are quoted.

However, I am happy to add in some more categories if you like, that 
might nail the themes more neatly - what do you suggest ?. NB the 
various theory acronyms hanging around near 1.3.2, which later 
express similar discontent. Also, remember the splendid rants from 
feetmadeofclay back last summer. There will be a lot of this stuff, 
best to anticipate it.

BTW, I have been putting a lot of religious book-banning stuff, and 
the row about taking HP off adult best-seller lists under 4.1 sub-
sections - do other people agree ??

Carolyn




From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Thu May  6 19:57:41 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 20:57:41 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: others
In-Reply-To: <c7e3ug+2a6s@eGroups.com>
References: <c7e3ug+2a6s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <A1F0F8F8-9F97-11D8-908D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>

Huh.
Well, criticism (in the literary sense of evaluation)  is a recurring 
theme that posters sometimes resort to. Usually it's not so easy to 
link it to just one or two threads or theories.
Plot holes and (possible) flints often get discussed too...

A couple of posts I've looked at in this batch started to get very 
close to other 'themes'  - think of words like 'trust' and 'evil'.
These are now so common that they could warrant their own check boxes - 
after all, isn't that generally what their matching acronyms are 
short-hand for? Overall, if you're  chasing
ESE!DD threads for example, it'd be nice if they were readily 
identifiable rather than have to wade through acres of irrelevance.

Just maybe, this weekend when Paul closes his site, it's a useful time 
to reflect on what, if any, changes to the list would be useful bearing 
in mind our struggles with the first 5000 posts or so. Whaddaya think?

Barry


On 6 May 2004, at 20:33, a_reader2003 wrote:

> --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith
>  <arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
>  >
>  > On 6 May 2004, at 19:24, Barry Arrowsmith wrote:
>  >
>  > > I suspect that a category? "Criticism and Evaluation'? may be
>  useful.
>  > >? Have a look at 4029.
>
>  > ....then add in post 4071....? with a mention of the dreaded plot
>  > holes, social satire and? JKR's response to reader feedback.....
>  >
>
>
>
>
>
>  Hm.. the heart of the matter & after OOP what drew me in to seek the
>  company of other concerned nutters..er, HP readers & critics. Trust
>  Joywitch to begin on it early in the club.
>
>  I've coded earlier stuff like this to three different places,
>  depending on the slant:
>  1.3.2 narrative style
>  4.1.1/2/3 Children or adult books/genre, reading level & controversies
>  4.5 JKR interviews
>
>  These ones I would tentatively say are 1.3.2, but with some other
>  coding depending on the examples that are quoted.
>
>  However, I am happy to add in some more categories if you like, that
>  might nail the themes more neatly - what do you suggest ?. NB the
>  various theory acronyms hanging around near 1.3.2, which later
>  express similar discontent. Also, remember the splendid rants from
>  feetmadeofclay back last summer. There will be a lot of this stuff,
>  best to anticipate it.
>
>  BTW, I have been putting a lot of religious book-banning stuff, and
>  the row about taking HP off adult best-seller lists under 4.1 sub-
>  sections - do other people agree ??
>
>  Carolyn
>
>
>
>
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From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Thu May  6 20:25:10 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 20:25:10 -0000
Subject: others/reviewing Category list
In-Reply-To: <A1F0F8F8-9F97-11D8-908D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <c7e6v6+30ej@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:

> Just maybe, this weekend when Paul closes his site, it's a useful 
time to reflect on what, if any, changes to the list would be useful 
bearing in mind our struggles with the first 5000 posts or so. 
Whaddaya think?

> 
Carolyn:
I think that would be a really good idea, if people can stand it. 
Slight health warning - I printed the list off the site last night 
and it ran to 26 pages !! Might be best to do that this evening if 
you want to, as it might not be available tomorrow. Must be a way of 
saving it electronically, but not sure how..

PAUL: if you read this, any chance of putting the current category 
list in a file for us before you go away, so people don't have to 
print it out ?? Ta ever so..




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Thu May  6 21:02:20 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 21:02:20 -0000
Subject: others/reviewing Category list
In-Reply-To: <c7e6v6+30ej@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7e94s+p8nv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "a_reader2003"
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
> <arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> 
> > Just maybe, this weekend when Paul closes his site, it's a useful 
> time to reflect on what, if any, changes to the list would be useful 
> bearing in mind our struggles with the first 5000 posts or so. 
> Whaddaya think?
> 
> > 
> Carolyn:
> I think that would be a really good idea, if people can stand it. 

Anne:
Actually, I logged in here intending to post just that idea.  I'm 
sure we've had our individual coding styles, and it'd be nice to
compare notes and make sure we have enough consistency.  Maybe tonight
we should each take a look at some posts the others have coded up, to
get an idea of what we're discussing?

By the way, as a general feeling, I see no problem with giving a post
multiple codes, e.g. a prophecy post might code up under:
1.1.2.1 Prophecy discussions
1.3.4   Foreshadowing, clues and misdirection
_____   Characters involved, and
_____   A certain book chapter

because different users will have different ideas on where to search.
 There's no disadvantage to this, is there?

I realise it's getting late for you, Barry and Carolyn; it's been that
kind of a day.  Actually, I probably wouldn't have coded much this
weekend anyway...

Anne





From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Thu May  6 21:33:05 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 21:33:05 -0000
Subject: Saving Category list & reviewing categories
In-Reply-To: <c7e6v6+30ej@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7eauh+r9f2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "a_reader2003" 
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
 
> Slight health warning - I printed the list off the site last night 
> and it ran to 26 pages !! Might be best to do that this evening if 
> you want to, as it might not be available tomorrow. Must be a way 
of saving it electronically, but not sure how..
> 

Carolyn again:
Sorry, I was just being thick - just click on 'save' in whatever 
browser you are using and choose something compatible. I captured it 
ok as an HTML file within AOL.

I started to click through what we had done under each category, but 
it proved too big a task for tonight. You might like to know, 
however, that OT (0.4) was our most popular reject category, with 
2252 items coded there so far. In all, we have rejected 3505 posts 
(or ticked one of those codes) out of approx 4500-4700 posts coded up 
so far.




From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Thu May  6 21:45:26 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (kippesp)
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 21:45:26 -0000
Subject: Saving Category list & reviewing categories
In-Reply-To: <c7eauh+r9f2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7eblm+eegp@eGroups.com>

I did the same and placed the list in an Excel file and then into 
a .txt file.  See the folder "category_list" in the files area.

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "a_reader2003" 
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "a_reader2003" 
> <carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
>  
> > Slight health warning - I printed the list off the site last 
night 
> > and it ran to 26 pages !! Might be best to do that this evening 
if 
> > you want to, as it might not be available tomorrow. Must be a 
way 
> of saving it electronically, but not sure how..
> > 
> 
> Carolyn again:
> Sorry, I was just being thick - just click on 'save' in whatever 
> browser you are using and choose something compatible. I captured 
it 
> ok as an HTML file within AOL.
> 
> I started to click through what we had done under each category, 
but 
> it proved too big a task for tonight. You might like to know, 
> however, that OT (0.4) was our most popular reject category, with 
> 2252 items coded there so far. In all, we have rejected 3505 posts 
> (or ticked one of those codes) out of approx 4500-4700 posts coded 
up 
> so far.




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Fri May  7 10:29:52 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 10:29:52 -0000
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?QUESTIONS_ON_CATEGORY_0_=96_REJECTS?=
Message-ID: <c7fof0+rhkd@eGroups.com>

I am starting off our Category list discussion with a series of 
posts, divided up by the sections of the list for convenience. Look 
forward to your responses!
Carolyn

CATEGORY 0 - REJECTS


(0.5) Listings of personal favourite topics/characters etc
I have been using this for much unsupported `I wish' type posts, 
eg `I hope Harry/Hermione/Ron etc get it together in the end', as 
well as `I love xxx in the books'. The only exception here where 
someone is appreciating the humour in the series, where I have been 
coding under 1.3.6 (if I agree!).

(0.8) Mere agreement/adding nothing new 
This category is likely to be increasingly important as we move 
forwards. Should it be split in two? What should our criteria be 
for `adding nothing new'? I have been using it for both factual 
queries like `Where did the twins get the Marauders' Map?/ (answer) 
>From Filch's cabinet', and repetitions of common theories like `I 
think Voldemort and Harry are related' (unaccompanied by any detailed 
analysis). However, using it like this will depend on constant review 
of what has already come up.





From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Fri May  7 10:31:29 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 10:31:29 -0000
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?QUESTIONS_ON_CATEGORY_2_=96_CHARACTER_ANALYSIS?=
Message-ID: <c7foi1+83fc@eGroups.com>


A major question is should we remove the theory acronyms?
Arguments for removal: (a) it will speed up scrolling down the list; 
(b) many of the theories only ever had one or two posts associated 
with them and they are likely to be removed eventually because of 
this.
Arguments for keeping them at the moment: (a) we don't know how many 
posts will be attached to each until we get to them; (b) its kind of 
useful to know which theory relates to which character, as its hard 
to remember what they stand for otherwise.

Related to the theory acronym question is what do we do about posts 
which have a consistent theme, but are not specifically linked to 
named theories? Would it be useful to have sub-headings under each 
character, in order to be able to follow streams of ideas? Eg should 
we move 1.2.2 (Dumbledore's agenda) to a sub-category under 
Dumbledore? Should we have a box under Snape called `Is he a spy?', 
and another one to track his many hypothetical romantic 
entanglements? Would it be too difficult at this stage to anticipate 
the many convoluted propositions that have been put forward about 
each character? If we did this, would it cause mega-confusion with 
the text themes listed in Category 1?

Also, I have a pretty complete list of all the characters in the 
books ? I could expand the names on this list exponentially if anyone 
thought it was useful. In the short term I tried to make a selection 
of the most commonly discussed characters.

(2.14) RelationSHIPPING
Are there enough options here? I have been a bit cavalier and have 
been putting some non-Trio speculation (eg Harry/Cho) under 2.14.7 
(Trio ships), although also under Cho (or whoever), if it blossomed 
into a wider analysis of character and motivations.

How are these different from predictions about what will happen in 
the books ?





From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Fri May  7 10:33:01 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 10:33:01 -0000
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?QUESTIONS_ON_CATEGORY_4_=96_OTHER_TOPICS?=
Message-ID: <c7fokt+aond@eGroups.com>


(4.1) Children or adult's books
I have been putting the religious banning controversies under 4.1.3, 
but this is not really a children/adults question ? should we have a 
new sub-head here, or should this sort of discussion be moved back up 
to category 1 under 1.1.1 (Good vs evil/religious influences etc).

I have also put all the Stouffer case here, but again, it is not 
really children/adult's discussion. Probably should also be separated 
from the other types of controversies.

Discussion about splitting the NY Times bestseller lists into 
children and adults, however, does belong here I think.

(4.3) Differences between editions
This gets very extensive. I was wondering if the category should be 
split up at all? Also, where it starts to call into question what the 
text means (the ancestor/descendent discussion for instance), I have 
also coded back to the relevant chapters or characters.

I notice we don't have a category for FLINTS, which we probably 
should have ? but when does something become a FLINT, as opposed to a 
difference between editions?





From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Fri May  7 10:33:46 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 10:33:46 -0000
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?QUESTIONS_ON_CATEGORY_5_=96_ADMIN_FLAGS?=
Message-ID: <c7foma+krqu@eGroups.com>


(5.1) Multiple Posts
I probably have not been clicking this as often as I should, and 
judging by the relatively few number of hits, nor has anyone else. 
Really, we should click this every time a post addresses more than 
one topic in a formal way (as opposed to talking about many things in 
relation to one point). However, not sure yet what we are going to do 
about all these ? ie how they are to be pulled apart.

(5.4) TBAY
Is everyone clear to tick this if you think a post is TBAY style, but 
this tag has not been used in the post header.





From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Fri May  7 10:32:28 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 10:32:28 -0000
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?QUESTIONS_ON_CATEGORY_3_=96_THE_WIZARDING_WORLD?=
Message-ID: <c7fojs+jgcv@eGroups.com>


(3.8.6.8/3.10.1) Time-turner/Time travel
Should they be together under travel or magic?

(3.16/3.4.6) Washing and sanitation
Posts express a perennial interest in the cleanliness (or otherwise) 
of the kids. I have put a sub-heading under 3.16.1 called `Bathrooms 
& loos'..does this cater for the theme ?

(3.16.4/2.9) Sorting process/school houses/founders
I sometimes find it hard to decide whether to put stuff about the 
nature/character of the houses under the house codes or the 
historical character codes. Should they be amalgamated?





From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Fri May  7 10:30:36 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 10:30:36 -0000
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?QUESTIONS_ON_CATEGORY_1_=96_TEXT_ANALYSIS?=
Message-ID: <c7fogc+b37l@eGroups.com>


(1.1) Meta-themes
Are these working for people? Personally, I have not used them very 
much so far. They evolved from the boiling down I did of the FAQ 
topic list way back. They may be too vague to be useful.

(1.2) Military strategy
See question under character's ? maybe 1.2.1 & 1.2.2 should be moved 
to DD and Voldie categories. 1.2.3 (Hogwart's defences) could go 
under Hogwarts in section 4; 1.2.4 (spying, espionage & betrayal) 
could become a subset of 1.1.3 (friendship, love & loyalty).

(1.3.2) Narrative style
Do we need more categories for arguments about whether the books are 
well-written or not? Ie, separate from whether or not they are 
children's books (which belongs in section 4).

(1.3.4) Foreshadowing, clues & misdirection
How are people using this? I have not used it yet, as have not come 
across posts overtly discussing how she uses this technique in the 
books.

(1.8 ? 1.12) Book/chapter contents
I have been trying to code as much as possible to individual chapter 
discussions, where arguments have raged as to why, how, where things 
happened. But I also code the discussion to the main characters as 
well. However, have had to look up the chapters a lot to ensure I put 
posts in the right place !

(1.13) Predictions
Do we need sub-categories within any of the book categories listed 
here? Whilst 1.13.1 Book 4/GOF is likely to be fairly finite, as the 
predicting had to end as soon as the book was published, mid-way in 
the Yahoo Club postings, the number of predictions put into the other 
categories are likely to be huge.

Second question is what is the difference between a prediction and 
just pure speculation on what might happen in future books? A 
particular difficulty I have had is speculation on what might happen 
at the end of the series. I have been coding this to 1.13.4 (Book 7), 
plus other codes depending on the nature of the theory. A further 
complication is when this includes discussion of plot development in 
a literary sense, ie what is likely from the POV of are the books for 
children or not, meta-themes of good/evil.






From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Fri May  7 15:07:20 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (Paul Kippes)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 08:07:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: {groups} [HPFGU-Catalogue] QUESTIONS_ON_CATEGORY_2_?_CHARACTER_ANALYSIS
In-Reply-To: <c7foi1+83fc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040507150720.86193.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com>

Before we go off and delete them only to create them again 40,000
posts later, I can add an active/inactive flag to the category. 
Those category names with only uppercase letters can be set to
inactive.

--- a_reader2003 <carolynwhite2 at aol.com> wrote:

---------------------------------

A major question is should we remove the theory acronyms?
Arguments for removal: (a) it will speed up scrolling down the list; 
(b) many of the theories only ever had one or two posts associated 
with them and they are likely to be removed eventually because of 
this.
Arguments for keeping them at the moment: (a) we don't know how many 
posts will be attached to each until we get to them; (b) its kind of 
useful to know which theory relates to which character, as its hard 
to remember what they stand for otherwise.

Related to the theory acronym question is what do we do about posts 
which have a consistent theme, but are not specifically linked to 
named theories? Would it be useful to have sub-headings under each 
character, in order to be able to follow streams of ideas? Eg should 
we move 1.2.2 (Dumbledore's agenda) to a sub-category under 
Dumbledore? Should we have a box under Snape called `Is he a spy?', 
and another one to track his many hypothetical romantic 
entanglements? Would it be too difficult at this stage to anticipate 
the many convoluted propositions that have been put forward about 
each character? If we did this, would it cause mega-confusion with 
the text themes listed in Category 1?

Also, I have a pretty complete list of all the characters in the 
books  I could expand the names on this list exponentially if anyone

thought it was useful. In the short term I tried to make a selection 
of the most commonly discussed characters.

(2.14) RelationSHIPPING
Are there enough options here? I have been a bit cavalier and have 
been putting some non-Trio speculation (eg Harry/Cho) under 2.14.7 
(Trio ships), although also under Cho (or whoever), if it blossomed 
into a wider analysis of character and motivations.

How are these different from predictions about what will happen in 
the books ?



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From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Fri May  7 19:24:18 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 19:24:18 -0000
Subject: New group members
Message-ID: <c7gnp2+lqfh@eGroups.com>

Just to let everyone know that, in addition to Sigune, Arya and The 
Sergeant Majorette have also agreed to join the group.

Carolyn




From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Fri May  7 20:16:22 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 21:16:22 +0100
Subject: Questions
Message-ID: <686365CD-A063-11D8-A73D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>

Hell's teeth!
I was hoping for a leisurely stroll among the unconsidered aspects of 
HP; giving a judicious nod here, a frown there, sipping a G&T 
between-times. This looks like hard work.

I've combined your mails into one; yes, it's big, but makes 
interpolation easier -  for me anyway.


CATEGORY 0 - REJECTS

 >
(0.5) Listings of personal favourite topics/characters etc
I have been using this for much unsupported `I wish' type posts, eg `I 
hope Harry/Hermione/Ron etc get it together in the end', as well as `I 
love xxx in the books'. The only exception here where someone is 
appreciating the humour in the series, where I have been coding under 
1.3.6 (if I agree!).
 >

I've  rarely used this category so far. The example that you use of "I 
wish.." I tend to mark as Off-Topic. Not that it matters - a reject is 
a reject. Unless you intend to add the Reject categories into the 
eventual Search list. (Not something that would be particularly useful 
IMO.
It would just add thousands of useless posts that are better off culled.

 >
(0.8) Mere agreement/adding nothing new
This category is likely to be increasingly important as we move 
forwards. Should it be split in two? What should our criteria be for 
`adding nothing new'? I have been using it for both factual queries 
like `Where did the twins get the Marauders' Map?/ (answer) From 
Filch's cabinet', and repetitions of common theories like `I think 
Voldemort and Harry are related' (unaccompanied by any detailed 
analysis). However, using it like this will depend on constant review 
of what has already come up.
 >

I concur.

 >
(1.1) Meta-themes
Are these working for people? Personally, I have not used them very 
much so far. They evolved from the boiling down I did of the FAQ topic 
list way back. They may be too vague to be useful.
 >

They probably will be used once the excitement of GoF has subsided and 
posters settle down to the long 3 years of drought that follows. Once 
specifics have been picked to bits it's likely some of these more 
metaphysical considerations will become more popular.
Worth holding on for a while longer and see what happens.

 >
(1.2) Military strategy
See question under character's ? maybe 1.2.1 & 1.2.2 should be moved to 
DD and Voldie categories. 1.2.3 (Hogwart's defences) could go
under Hogwarts in section 4; 1.2.4 (spying, espionage & betrayal) could 
become a subset of 1.1.3 (friendship, love & loyalty).
 >

Yes, they can be moved without losing anything, except 1.2.4.
Betrayal and spying are massive themes in the books and the potential 
for various characters to indulge in them seems to occur in every fifth 
post. Is there a named individual in the texts that has not been 
accused at some time? Can't think of one.
Harking back to my post of yesterday, why not  re-vamp  the whole 
section to take into account the popularity of the subjects? Maybe 
thus:
1.2 ........Treason, betrayal
1.2.1 ......Spying, deception, disguise
1.2.2 ......ESE
1.2.3 ......Trust
1.2.4 ......FEATHERBOAS
1.2.5 ......FLYING HEDGEHOGS

 >
(1.3.2) Narrative style
Do we need more categories for arguments about whether the books are 
well-written or not? Ie, separate from whether or not they are 
children's books (which belongs in section 4).
 >

Probably not. Literary criticism can be nailed into this without too 
much angst.

 >
(1.3.4) Foreshadowing, clues & misdirection
How are people using this? I have not used it yet, as have not come 
across posts overtly discussing how she uses this technique in the 
books.
 >

Mostly I've used it when the posters suspect a foreshadowing or clue 
rather than it's other use in retrospective analysis. Works for both 
IMO. Under some circumstances 1.3.3 Plot development is  almost 
indistinguishable.

 >
(1.8 ? 1.12) Book/chapter contents
I have been trying to code as much as possible to individual chapter 
discussions, where arguments have raged as to why, how, where things 
happened. But I also code the discussion to the main characters as 
well. However, have had to look up the chapters a lot to ensure I put 
posts in the right place !
 >

Yes, so have I (but see Multiple posts)

 >
(1.13) Predictions
Do we need sub-categories within any of the book categories listed 
here? Whilst 1.13.1 Book 4/GOF is likely to be fairly finite, as the 
predicting had to end as soon as the book was published, mid-way in the 
Yahoo Club postings, the number of predictions put into the other 
categories are likely to be huge.

Second question is what is the difference between a prediction and just 
pure speculation on what might happen in future books? A particular 
difficulty I have had is speculation on what might happen at the end of 
the series. I have been coding this to 1.13.4 (Book 7), plus other 
codes depending on the nature of the theory. A further complication is 
when this includes discussion of plot development in a literary sense, 
ie what is likely from the POV of are the books for children or not, 
meta-themes of good/evil.
 >

Most posters have staunchly held ideas of what happens next but tying 
them to particular volumes is pretty much guesswork.
Speculation without evidence borders on wishful thinking and we've seen 
an awful lot of that posted in the past year - mostly of the fluffy 
bunny persuasion. Theory and speculation should be based on something 
capable of interpretation and discussion. If there's no canon backing, 
extrapolation from canon or argument based on character traits / 
unexplained behaviour or the like, it shouldn't be classed as 
Prediction IMO. Are my prejudices showing? Good. Posts that arbitrarily 
assume that "this must have  happened" to substantiate some belief or 
other with *no* evidence irritate particularly. I'll not name names. 
Category - sloppy thinking.
As to the finale, why not have a category The End? Theory or pure 
guesswork  are the same when there is so much that has yet to be 
revealed.

 >
A major question is should we remove the theory acronyms? Arguments for 
removal: (a) it will speed up scrolling down the list; (b) many of the 
theories only ever had one or two posts associated with them and they 
are likely to be removed eventually because of this.
Arguments for keeping them at the moment: (a) we don't know how many 
posts will be attached to each until we get to them; (b) its kind of
useful to know which theory relates to which character, as its hard to 
remember what they stand for otherwise.
 >

Best to keep them. How they will be dealt with in the Search programme 
is worth thinking about though.

 >
Related to the theory acronym question is what do we do about posts 
which have a consistent theme, but are not specifically linked to named 
theories? Would it be useful to have sub-headings under each character, 
in order to be able to follow streams of ideas? Eg should we move 1.2.2 
(Dumbledore's agenda) to a sub-category under Dumbledore? Should we 
have a box under Snape called `Is he a spy?', and another one to track 
his many hypothetical romantic entanglements? Would it be too difficult 
at this stage to anticipate the many convoluted propositions that have 
been put forward about each character? If we did this, would it cause 
mega-confusion with the text themes listed in Category 1?
 >

For a very few characters it might be useful. For example Dumbledore's 
agenda is obviously linked to DD. Spying is a more general topic (see 
1.2 above).
The acronyms nail the theories quite well, those that say the same 
without the capital letters can be categorised as any other post. No  
sweat.

 >
Also, I have a pretty complete list of all the characters in the books 
? I could expand the names on this list exponentially if anyone
thought it was useful. In the short term I tried to make a selection of 
the most commonly discussed characters.
 >

Best only to add them as and when it becomes necessary.

 >
(2.14) RelationSHIPPING
Are there enough options here? I have been a bit cavalier and have been 
putting some non-Trio speculation (eg Harry/Cho) under 2.14.7 (Trio 
ships), although also under Cho (or whoever), if it blossomed into a 
wider analysis of character and motivations.
 >

Hm. SHIPping is a sad affliction. Poor sods. Let them suffer in peace - 
and whatever you do, don't encourage them. If I had my way they'd be 
classed under Mental aberrations.

 >
How are these different from predictions about what will happen in the 
books ?

(3.8.6.8/3.10.1) Time-turner/Time travel
Should they be together under travel or magic?
 >

Magic.

 >
(3.16/3.4.6) Washing and sanitation
Posts express a perennial interest in the cleanliness (or otherwise) of 
the kids. I have put a sub-heading under 3.16.1 called `Bathrooms
  & loos'..does this cater for the theme ?
 >

Should be OK.

 >
(3.16.4/2.9) Sorting process/school houses/founders I sometimes find it 
hard to decide whether to put stuff about the nature/character of the 
houses under the house codes or the historical character codes. Should 
they be amalgamated?
 >

I wouldn't - but that's because IMO there's going to be a lot more 
about Slytherin and Gryffindor the persons in future books. But what do 
I know?

 >
(4.1) Children or adult's books
I have been putting the religious banning controversies under 4.1.3, 
but this is not really a children/adults question ? should we have a
new sub-head here, or should this sort of discussion be moved back up 
to category 1 under 1.1.1 (Good vs evil/religious influences etc).
 >

Keep it in section 4. There haven't been that many controversies that 
they need sub-divisions. Anyway, I'd assumed that 1.1.1 was more for 
philosophical discussions on the nature of evil etc. than for RW 
nutters.

 >
I have also put all the Stouffer case here, but again, it is not really 
children/adult's discussion. Probably should also be separated
from the other types of controversies.

Discussion about splitting the NY Times bestseller lists into children 
and adults, however, does belong here I think.
 >


Yeah, that's how I've classified them as well.

 >
(4.3) Differences between editions
This gets very extensive. I was wondering if the category should be 
split up at all? Also, where it starts to call into question what the 
text means (the ancestor/descendent discussion for instance), I have 
also coded back to the relevant chapters or characters.
 >

Tell  me.  I had an enormous thread discussing the minutiae of cover 
art around the world. (Are you fascinated that Harry's eyes are slanted 
on the Icelandic cover? Neither am I.) They got labeled as Off Topic. 
They'd be treated differently if the translation of the text showed 
something different though.

 >
I notice we don't have a category for FLINTS, which we probably should 
have ? but when does something become a FLINT, as opposed to a
difference between editions?
 >

When JKR admits to perpetrating a cock-up.

 >
(5.1) Multiple Posts
I probably have not been clicking this as often as I should, and 
judging by the relatively few number of hits, nor has anyone else.
Really, we should click this every time a post addresses more than one 
topic in a formal way (as opposed to talking about many things in 
relation to one point). However, not sure yet what we are going to do 
about all these ? ie how they are to be pulled apart.
 >


Open to interpretation this one.
When a post starts to resemble CatLady's weekly missives, that I think 
is a multiple post. When it covers different actions, persons, 
whatever, no mmatter  how diverse that are contained in one chapter, 
then I check it as a chapter discussion; if it is a post on say, how  
Hagrid got to the Rock, discussing various modes of travel, magic or 
otherwise, it gets Hagrid and travel. To get a Multiple post  from me 
it has had to contain a series of unconnected ideas or actions not 
found in one chunk of text.

 >
(5.4) TBAY
Is everyone clear to tick this if you think a post is TBAY style, but 
this tag has not been used in the post header.
 >

Understood.

3.5.4 Blood protection. The GoF readers are aware of Harry's 
protection, but not what it consists of.
They  are under the impression that 'Privet Drive protection' is 
different from his blood protection that V overcomes at the end of the 
book.
How do you want to handle that?
Place Protection (unspecified) directly under Harry 2.4.3?

Privet Drive deserves a check box too.

I may be back with more.




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From kkearney at students.miami.edu  Fri May  7 21:00:17 2004
From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum)
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 21:00:17 -0000
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_QUESTIONS_ON_CATEGORY_0_=96_REJECTS?=
In-Reply-To: <c7fof0+rhkd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7gtd1+b9ac@eGroups.com>

Since I've only been at this a week, I don't have much perspective 
yet.  But my two cents...

> CATEGORY 0 - REJECTS

> (0.8) Mere agreement/adding nothing new 
> This category is likely to be increasingly important as we move 
> forwards. Should it be split in two? What should our criteria be 
> for `adding nothing new'? I have been using it for both factual 
> queries like `Where did the twins get the Marauders' Map?/ (answer) 
> From Filch's cabinet', and repetitions of common theories like `I 
> think Voldemort and Harry are related' (unaccompanied by any 
detailed 
> analysis).

I've been using this one for any type of question (factual or asking 
opinions/theories).  The resulting replies to said questions are 
often relevant and coded as such, but the initial query I throw out 
unless the poster puts forth his or her own ideas.

-Kelly  




From kkearney at students.miami.edu  Fri May  7 21:07:57 2004
From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum)
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 21:07:57 -0000
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_QUESTIONS_ON_CATEGORY_2_=96_CHARACTER_ANALYSIS?=
In-Reply-To: <c7foi1+83fc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7gtrd+khai@eGroups.com>



> Related to the theory acronym question is what do we do about posts 
> which have a consistent theme, but are not specifically linked to 
> named theories? Would it be useful to have sub-headings under each 
> character, in order to be able to follow streams of ideas? Eg 
should 
> we move 1.2.2 (Dumbledore's agenda) to a sub-category under 
> Dumbledore? Should we have a box under Snape called `Is he a spy?', 
> and another one to track his many hypothetical romantic 
> entanglements? Would it be too difficult at this stage to 
anticipate 
> the many convoluted propositions that have been put forward about 
> each character? If we did this, would it cause mega-confusion with 
> the text themes listed in Category 1?

I don't think there's any need to move categories to their related 
people.  If I were to come across a post discussing Dumbledore's 
agenda, I'd check both the theme here and Dumbledore in the 
characters section.  


> Also, I have a pretty complete list of all the characters in the 
> books ? I could expand the names on this list exponentially if 
anyone 
> thought it was useful. 

No, I think that would just make the cataloguing process more 
difficult, without much benefit since minor characters are very 
rarely discussed in and of themselves (not related to one of the 
other categories).


> (2.14) RelationSHIPPING
> Are there enough options here? I have been a bit cavalier and have 
> been putting some non-Trio speculation (eg Harry/Cho) under 2.14.7 
> (Trio ships), although also under Cho (or whoever), if it blossomed 
> into a wider analysis of character and motivations.

I haven't actually coded any ships yet, but I would consider a "Trio 
Ship" to be one that included at least one of the trio.

-Kelly




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sat May  8 12:48:37 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 12:48:37 -0000
Subject: Questions
In-Reply-To: <686365CD-A063-11D8-A73D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <c7ikv5+7vuk@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
Hell's teeth!
I was hoping for a leisurely stroll among the unconsidered aspects of
HP; giving a judicious nod here, a frown there, sipping a G&T
between-times. This looks like hard work.

Carolyn:
Well, the gin seems to have worked anyway..an unusual level of 
agreement ! I was fearing for a dyspeptic diatribe generated by a 
week's gloom in the British courts, but I see that was reserved for 
the main list...<g> 


CATEGORY 0 - REJECTS
(0.5) Listings of personal favourite topics/characters etc

I've rarely used this category so far. The example that you use of "I
wish.." I tend to mark as Off-Topic. Not that it matters - a reject is
a reject. Unless you intend to add the Reject categories into the
eventual Search list. (Not something that would be particularly useful
IMO.It would just add thousands of useless posts that are better off 
culled.

Carolyn:
No, I hadn't intended any of the Reject categories to be searchable. 
The Movie list might be interested in the 0.2 Movie-related category 
I suppose. At the moment we are rejecting approx 75% of posts, which 
is great. If the ratio held throughout the list, we'd only end up 
indexing about 30 000 posts in the end, but I think it will be more 
than that.
>
CATEGORY 1 - TEXT ANALYSIS
(1.2) Military strategy
See question under character's ? maybe 1.2.1 & 1.2.2 should be moved 
to
DD and Voldie categories. 1.2.3 (Hogwart's defences) could go
under Hogwarts in section 4; 1.2.4 (spying, espionage & betrayal) 
could
become a subset of 1.1.3 (friendship, love & loyalty).
>

Yes, they can be moved without losing anything, except 1.2.4.
Betrayal and spying are massive themes in the books and the potential
for various characters to indulge in them seems to occur in every 
fifth
post. Is there a named individual in the texts that has not been
accused at some time? Can't think of one.
Harking back to my post of yesterday, why not re-vamp the whole
section to take into account the popularity of the subjects? Maybe
thus:
1.2 ........Treason, betrayal
1.2.1 ......Spying, deception, disguise
1.2.2 ......ESE
1.2.3 ......Trust
1.2.4 ......FEATHERBOAS
1.2.5 ......FLYING HEDGEHOGS

Carolyn:
Ok - are other people happy with this ? I think ESE is a particularly 
good addition, although we must remember to code also to the relevant 
character. (I'm also assuming that the ESE theory acronyms would also 
stay with the character and not go here? Eg, Pippin's long and 
redoubtable case against Lupin).
>
>
(1.13) Predictions
Most posters have staunchly held ideas of what happens next but tying
them to particular volumes is pretty much guesswork.
Speculation without evidence borders on wishful thinking and we've 
seen
an awful lot of that posted in the past year - mostly of the fluffy
bunny persuasion. Theory and speculation should be based on something
capable of interpretation and discussion. If there's no canon backing,
extrapolation from canon or argument based on character traits /
unexplained behaviour or the like, it shouldn't be classed as
Prediction IMO. Are my prejudices showing? Good. Posts that 
arbitrarily
assume that "this must have happened" to substantiate some belief or
other with *no* evidence irritate particularly. I'll not name names.
Category - sloppy thinking.
As to the finale, why not have a category The End? Theory or pure
guesswork are the same when there is so much that has yet to be
revealed.

Carolyn:
Oh I really love the idea of a reject category called 'sloppy 
thinking' ! However, like Snape being prevented from teaching DADA, 
perhaps we should not give you the temptation. But there is a serious 
point here, which this group might want to consider. At what point 
does un-supported prediction, fluffy bunny or otherwise, become 
acceptable? I have already come across some pretty accurate posts 
about future events, which take the form of totally unsupported 
hunches. With the benefit of hindsight, I am able to click them into 
predictions and give them their due place in posterity. I am also 
doing this with the spectacularly wrong, just for a laugh. The more 
deeply-argued posts I don't click into predictions as a core code, 
but more into the character, chapter or whatever.

>(Carolyn):
A major question is should we remove the theory acronyms? 
>
Barry:
Best to keep them. How they will be dealt with in the Search programme
is worth thinking about though.

Carolyn:
It seems Paul can suppress their appearance on the list, which might 
be useful for the next 20 000 posts or so, until we need to start 
using them.

CATEGORY 2 - CHARACTER ANALYSIS
>
(2.14) RelationSHIPPING
Are there enough options here? 
>

Hm. SHIPping is a sad affliction. Poor sods. Let them suffer in 
peace -
and whatever you do, don't encourage them. If I had my way they'd be
classed under Mental aberrations.

Carolyn:
Ah, but what about LOLLIPOPS etc ? You have to concede that if any of 
the currently adult characters had romantic entanglements, it might 
really impact the plot. We reserve 2.14 entirely for the kids 
presently at school then ?

CATEGORY 3 - WW
Barry:
3.5.4 Blood protection. The GoF readers are aware of Harry's
protection, but not what it consists of. They are under the 
impression that 'Privet Drive protection' is
different from his blood protection that V overcomes at the end of the
book. How do you want to handle that? Place Protection (unspecified) 
directly under Harry 2.4.3? Privet Drive deserves a check box too.

Carolyn:
Privet Drive has a sort-of box, in the form of 3.15.5 Little 
Whinging, although its a geography category really. I put 3.5.4 
(Blood Protection) under 3.5 (Bloodlines and Inheritance) because of 
what we now know about the family aspect of the protection, but could 
be argued into having it under 3.8.2 (General properties and types of 
magic), if you like. There isn't really any such thing as 'place 
protection' is there ? The protection Harry gets at Privet Drive is 
surely that of being in his aunt's house, and presumably would 
operate wherever Petunia was living ?
>
CATEGORY 4 - OTHER TOPICS
(4.3) Differences between editions
This gets very extensive. I was wondering if the category should be
split up at all? Also, where it starts to call into question what the
text means (the ancestor/descendent discussion for instance), I have
also coded back to the relevant chapters or characters.
>
Barry:
Tell me. I had an enormous thread discussing the minutiae of cover
art around the world. (Are you fascinated that Harry's eyes are 
slanted
on the Icelandic cover? Neither am I.) They got labeled as Off Topic.
They'd be treated differently if the translation of the text showed
something different though.

Carolyn:
I've been a bit kinder..I've tried to retain the more detailed, 
interesting analyses of the differences on the grounds that whatever 
appears in or on the books could be construed as canon.

Hm.. Saturday lunchtime & tipping down; time I poured a glass of 
something myself.....
Cheers






	
	







From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Sat May  8 18:15:29 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 19:15:29 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Questions
In-Reply-To: <c7ikv5+7vuk@eGroups.com>
References: <c7ikv5+7vuk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <AFCF39D2-A11B-11D8-81CF-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>

>
>  Yes, they can be moved without losing anything, except 1.2.4. 
> Betrayal and spying are massive themes in the books and the potential 
> for various characters to indulge in them seems to occur in every 
> fifth post. Is there a named individual in the texts that has not been 
> accused at some time? Can't think of one.
> Harking back to my post of yesterday, why not re-vamp the whole 
> section to take into account the popularity of the subjects? Maybe
>  thus:
>  1.2 ........Treason, betrayal
>  1.2.1 ......Spying, deception, disguise
>  1.2.2 ......ESE
>  1.2.3 ......Trust
>  1.2.4 ......FEATHERBOAS
>  1.2.5 ......FLYING HEDGEHOGS
>
> Carolyn:
> Ok - are other people happy with this ? I think ESE is a particularly 
> good addition, although we must remember to code also to the relevant 
> character. (I'm also assuming that the ESE theory acronyms would also 
> stay with the character and not go here? Eg, Pippin's long and  
> redoubtable case against Lupin).
>

Just remembered - FLYING HEDGEHOGS was the origin of ESE.
Eloise and her merry band scoured canon for dubious or even ridiculous 
'evidence' to point the finger of accusation at the most unlikely of 
suspects, who they then labeled as ESE. And FLYING HEDGEHOGS isn't an 
acronym, it's derived from some weird middle-European saying. These two 
could be combined.

>
>  Carolyn:
>  Oh I really love the idea of a reject category called 'sloppy 
> thinking' ! However, like Snape being prevented from teaching DADA, 
> perhaps we should not give you the temptation. But there is a serious 
> point here, which this group might want to consider. At what point 
> does un-supported prediction, fluffy bunny or otherwise, become
>  acceptable? I have already come across some pretty accurate posts 
> about future events, which take the form of totally unsupported 
> hunches. With the benefit of hindsight, I am able to click them into 
> predictions and give them their due place in posterity. I am also
>  doing this with the spectacularly wrong, just for a laugh. The more 
> deeply-argued posts I don't click into predictions as a core code, but 
> more into the character, chapter or whatever.

Hm. Hardly fair to those addicted to skull-work, don't you think?
I remember first asking about the compilation of a list specifically as 
a way of keeping track of predictions, to be eventually classified as 
'Golden Balls' or 'A load of Balls'. (The shape being derived from a 
prophesy orb.)
To my mind the deeply argued posts are the predictions, the others are 
hunches or guess-work, yet only the guesses will appear in the search 
mode when calling for 'Predictions'. Someone searching for an analysis 
predicting say, the eventual revelations regarding Snapes memories will 
be presented with thousands of posts to search through, most 
irrelevant. (Only one can be linked to the Pensieve.)
Sorry, I don't agree.
Yes link to character, chapter etc. but also prediction.



>
>  Carolyn:
>  Ah, but what about LOLLIPOPS etc ? You have to concede that if any of 
> the currently adult characters had romantic entanglements, it might 
> really impact the plot. We reserve 2.14 entirely for the kids 
> presently at school then ?
>

LOLLIPOPS? LOLLIPOPS? Deviant perversity, nothing more. A blatant 
attempt to sully Snape's good name by linking him to the WW equivalent 
of Esther Rantzen

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From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sat May  8 21:23:33 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 21:23:33 -0000
Subject: Questions
In-Reply-To: <AFCF39D2-A11B-11D8-81CF-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <c7jj4l+hssg@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> 
> Just remembered - FLYING HEDGEHOGS was the origin of ESE.
> Eloise and her merry band scoured canon for dubious or even 
ridiculous 'evidence' to point the finger of accusation at the most 
unlikely of suspects, who they then labeled as ESE. And FLYING 
HEDGEHOGS isn't an acronym, it's derived from some weird middle-
European saying. These two could be combined.
> 
> >
Carolyn:
I couldn't remember, so looked it up - apparently it stands 
for 'Fearful League Yabbering "Innocent Narratives Generally Harbour 
Enemies, Death-eaters, Grim Henchmen or Gangsters" (!), but I haven't 
checked the post where it started (36235) yet for ME etymology. 
Suggest we leave it in for the time being till we get there.


> >  Carolyn:
 At what point does un-supported prediction, fluffy bunny or 
otherwise, become acceptable? > 

Barry:
> To my mind the deeply argued posts are the predictions, the others 
are hunches or guess-work, yet only the guesses will appear in the 
search mode when calling for 'Predictions'. Someone searching for an 
analysis predicting say, the eventual revelations regarding Snapes 
memories will be presented with thousands of posts to search through, 
most irrelevant. (Only one can be linked to the Pensieve.)
> Sorry, I don't agree.
> Yes link to character, chapter etc. but also prediction.
> 
> 

Carolyn:
Hm. This is a useful one to have come up. I have certainly been using 
the predictions codes for (mostly accurate) guesses as well as longer 
length analyses.

Perhaps the best approach would be to have two options under the 
predictions for future books as follows:

1.13 Predictions
1.13.1 Book 4/GOF
1.13.1.1 With canon
1.13.1.2 No canon

Would this work? Is it clear enough?

Carolyn

BTW came across a long and convoluted piece on WW politics just now, 
following through a HPfGU post:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/pharnabazus

Only glanced at it; may not stand up to much analysis





From annemehr at yahoo.com  Sun May  9 14:51:00 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 14:51:00 -0000
Subject: Questions
In-Reply-To: <686365CD-A063-11D8-A73D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <c7lggk+tr7b@eGroups.com>

 
> CATEGORY 0 - REJECTS
> 
Carolyn:
> (0.5) Listings of personal favourite topics/characters etc
> I have been using this for much unsupported `I wish' type posts, eg `I 
> hope Harry/Hermione/Ron etc get it together in the end', as well as `I 
> love xxx in the books'. The only exception here where someone is 
> appreciating the humour in the series, where I have been coding under 
> 1.3.6 (if I agree!).
>  >
Barry:
> I've  rarely used this category so far. The example that you use of "I 
> wish.." I tend to mark as Off-Topic. Not that it matters - a reject is 
> a reject.

Anne:
I've been using it much as Carolyn has; at first the word "Listings"
made me wonder if I was right (thinking along the lines of "favorite
quotes" threads), but there's really no where else to put them.


Carolyn:
> (0.8) Mere agreement/adding nothing new
> This category is likely to be increasingly important as we move 
> forwards. Should it be split in two? What should our criteria be for 
> `adding nothing new'? I have been using it for both factual queries 
> like `Where did the twins get the Marauders' Map?/ (answer) From 
> Filch's cabinet', and repetitions of common theories like `I think 
> Voldemort and Harry are related' (unaccompanied by any detailed 
> analysis). However, using it like this will depend on constant review 
> of what has already come up.
>  >
Barry:
> I concur.

Anne:
I might rename it "Mere (dis)agreement/adding nothing new.  I've been
using it also for for some very short, unsubstantiated posts when I
know the idea contained therein is covered in much more detail
elsewhere.  I once came upon quite a long reply that basically
rephrased the post it was agreeing to: that went here as well.
> 

Carolyn:
> (1.1) Meta-themes
> Are these working for people? Personally, I have not used them very 
> much so far. They evolved from the boiling down I did of the FAQ topic 
> list way back. They may be too vague to be useful.
>  >
Barry:
> They probably will be used once the excitement of GoF has subsided and 
> posters settle down to the long 3 years of drought that follows. 

Anne:
I agree: in the titles themselves I recognise many of the themes I
know were covered more recently.
> 

Carolyn:
> (1.2) Military strategy
> See question under character's ? maybe 1.2.1 & 1.2.2 should be moved to 
> DD and Voldie categories. 1.2.3 (Hogwart's defences) could go
> under Hogwarts in section 4; 1.2.4 (spying, espionage & betrayal) could 
> become a subset of 1.1.3 (friendship, love & loyalty).
>  >
Barry:
> Yes, they can be moved without losing anything, except 1.2.4.
> Betrayal and spying are massive themes in the books and the potential 
> for various characters to indulge in them seems to occur in every fifth 
> post. Is there a named individual in the texts that has not been 
> accused at some time? Can't think of one.
> Harking back to my post of yesterday, why not  re-vamp  the whole 
> section to take into account the popularity of the subjects? Maybe 
> thus:
> 1.2 ........Treason, betrayal
> 1.2.1 ......Spying, deception, disguise
> 1.2.2 ......ESE
> 1.2.3 ......Trust
> 1.2.4 ......FEATHERBOAS
> 1.2.5 ......FLYING HEDGEHOGS

Anne:
I thought FEATHERBOAS was just the wish on the part of the adherent to
see as much blood and mayhem as possible.  I don't think it belongs
here.  Treason, begrayal and Spying, deception, disguise seem as
though they are going to blend into each other; I imagine I'd have a
lot of posts coded into both.

As far as 1.2.1 and 1.2.2, I like them just where they are.

>  >
> (1.3.2) Narrative style
> Do we need more categories for arguments about whether the books are 
> well-written or not? Ie, separate from whether or not they are 
> children's books (which belongs in section 4).
>  >
> 
> Probably not. Literary criticism can be nailed into this without too 
> much angst.
> 
Carolyn:
> (1.3.4) Foreshadowing, clues & misdirection
> How are people using this? I have not used it yet, as have not come 
> across posts overtly discussing how she uses this technique in the 
> books.
>  >
Barry:
> Mostly I've used it when the posters suspect a foreshadowing or clue 
> rather than it's other use in retrospective analysis. Works for both 
> IMO. Under some circumstances 1.3.3 Plot development is  almost 
> indistinguishable.

Anne:
I've used it once, and I thought it would come up much more later.  It
might be more useful for discussions of how JKR uses them per se, as
opposed to checking it every time someone makes a canon-based
prediction (which you could do for each of these, technically).  For
example, I'd check it for a post discussing whether Mark Evans is a
clue or a red herring, but not for a post noting that his surname was
Lily's and guessing he'll be receiving a Hogwarts letter, which I'd
put as a book 6 prediction only.  Otherwise, this category would
become so full as to be useless, don't you think?
> 
Carolyn:
> (1.8 ? 1.12) Book/chapter contents
> I have been trying to code as much as possible to individual chapter 
> discussions, where arguments have raged as to why, how, where things 
> happened. But I also code the discussion to the main characters as 
> well.
>  >
Barry:
> Yes, so have I (but see Multiple posts)

Anne:
I hope I haven't been remiss in this area.  I *have* been coding posts
into one or two individual chapters where I recognised them (i.e.
discussing one or two discrete events), but where a post ranged over
wider areas of a book, I haven't.  Come to think of it, I could have
coded those under simply "GoF" or "PoA."

Carolyn:
> (1.13) Predictions
> Do we need sub-categories within any of the book categories listed 
> here? Whilst 1.13.1 Book 4/GOF is likely to be fairly finite, as the 
> predicting had to end as soon as the book was published, mid-way in the 
> Yahoo Club postings, the number of predictions put into the other 
> categories are likely to be huge.
> 
> Second question is what is the difference between a prediction and just 
> pure speculation on what might happen in future books? A particular 
> difficulty I have had is speculation on what might happen at the end of 
> the series. I have been coding this to 1.13.4 (Book 7), plus other 
> codes depending on the nature of the theory. A further complication is 
> when this includes discussion of plot development in a literary sense, 
> ie what is likely from the POV of are the books for children or not, 
> meta-themes of good/evil.
>  >
Barry:
> Most posters have staunchly held ideas of what happens next but tying 
> them to particular volumes is pretty much guesswork.

Anne:
Yes, that's been my problem. Perhaps we need a category called
"General predictions" after the book 7 category.  I also think "after
book seven" predictions just belong under book 7, as the epilogue will
be part of the book.

Barry:
> Speculation without evidence borders on wishful thinking and we've seen 
> an awful lot of that posted in the past year - mostly of the fluffy 
> bunny persuasion. Theory and speculation should be based on something 
> capable of interpretation and discussion. If there's no canon backing, 
> extrapolation from canon or argument based on character traits / 
> unexplained behaviour or the like, it shouldn't be classed as 
> Prediction IMO.

Anne:
There's also prediction based on "what JKR would do" (in the poster's
opinion of course).  "Harry won't die because these are children's
books" could be coded under predictions and also childrens/adult
books.  Although they are very often seemingly valuless as actual
predictions, I think 1)some people are more perceptive than others,
and 2)whether wide of the mark or not, the various varieties of these
will be interesting to people after we've read book 7.

This might also be a good place to point out that some of the
obviously wrong and illogical stuff *will* end up being of interest to
future users, and shouldn't all be rejected.  It's part of HPfGU
culture, especially the stuff that occurs over and over. Which brings
me to:

Barry:
Posts that arbitrarily 
> assume that "this must have  happened" to substantiate some belief or 
> other with *no* evidence irritate particularly. I'll not name names. 
> Category - sloppy thinking.

Anne:
Oh, how I wish we had this category!  Fortunately, I can code most of
these into "nothing new," since the idea involved will get dealt with
more logically elsewhere.  Still, widely held assumptions are going to
need to be recorded somewhere for posterity, aren't they?  What about
all the post GoF posts dealing with the "witch" Arabella Figg?  We
can't code them only as "misdirection" until after we've read book 7
when we know what *all* the misdirections are, otherwise we'll be
inconsistent.

Barry:
> As to the finale, why not have a category The End? Theory or pure 
> guesswork  are the same when there is so much that has yet to be 
> revealed.

Anne:
To me, these are just "book 7," which will not be a very full category
at all until we've read book 6.  What we'll have most of is general
predictions which can't be tied to a particular future book until
then, IMO.

Carolyn:
> A major question is should we remove the theory acronyms?
>  >
Barry:
> Best to keep them. How they will be dealt with in the Search programme 
> is worth thinking about though.

Anne:
I'd agree we should keep them, for safety's sake.  If Paul could
temporarily suppress them, that'd be great, though.

Carolyn:
> Related to the theory acronym question is what do we do about posts 
> which have a consistent theme, but are not specifically linked to named 
> theories? Would it be useful to have sub-headings under each character, 
> in order to be able to follow streams of ideas? Eg should we move 1.2.2 
> (Dumbledore's agenda) to a sub-category under Dumbledore? Should we 
> have a box under Snape called `Is he a spy?', and another one to track 
> his many hypothetical romantic entanglements? Would it be too difficult 
> at this stage to anticipate the many convoluted propositions that have 
> been put forward about each character? If we did this, would it cause 
> mega-confusion with the text themes listed in Category 1?
>  >
Barry:
> For a very few characters it might be useful. For example Dumbledore's 
> agenda is obviously linked to DD. Spying is a more general topic (see 
> 1.2 above).
> The acronyms nail the theories quite well, those that say the same 
> without the capital letters can be categorised as any other post. No  
> sweat.

Anne:
I'm not sure what Barry meant in that next to last sentence,
but...Yes, I think some of the main characters should have
sub-headings besides just the acronyms to split up their categories.
This will take some thinking.  BTW, if, say, book 6 makes it clear we
need a new subheading for someone, that wouldn't be a problem to add a
couple of years down the road, will it?

>  >
> Also, I have a pretty complete list of all the characters in the books 
> ? I could expand the names on this list exponentially if anyone
> thought it was useful. In the short term I tried to make a selection of 
> the most commonly discussed characters.
>  >
> 
> Best only to add them as and when it becomes necessary.

Anne:
Agreed.

Carolyn:
>  >
> (2.14) RelationSHIPPING
> Are there enough options here? I have been a bit cavalier and have been 
> putting some non-Trio speculation (eg Harry/Cho) under 2.14.7 (Trio 
> ships), although also under Cho (or whoever), if it blossomed into a 
> wider analysis of character and motivations.
>  >
Anne:
I agree with Kelly's answer, that any SHIP that involves at least one
of the Trio goes here.
> 
Carolyn:
> (3.8.6.8/3.10.1) Time-turner/Time travel
> Should they be together under travel or magic?
>  >
Barry:
> Magic.

Anne:
Yes, magic.

Carolyn:

> (3.16.4/2.9) Sorting process/school houses/founders I sometimes find it 
> hard to decide whether to put stuff about the nature/character of the 
> houses under the house codes or the historical character codes. Should 
> they be amalgamated?
>  >
Barry:
> I wouldn't - but that's because IMO there's going to be a lot more 
> about Slytherin and Gryffindor the persons in future books. But what do 
> I know?

Anne:
I put that stuff under the school houses, and save the founders'
categories for discussions of those people themselves.
>  >
> (4.1) Children or adult's books
> I have been putting the religious banning controversies under 4.1.3, 
> but this is not really a children/adults question ? should we have a
> new sub-head here, or should this sort of discussion be moved back up 
> to category 1 under 1.1.1 (Good vs evil/religious influences etc).
>  >
> 
> Keep it in section 4. There haven't been that many controversies that 
> they need sub-divisions. Anyway, I'd assumed that 1.1.1 was more for 
> philosophical discussions on the nature of evil etc. than for RW 
> nutters.

Anne:
I might just rename section 4 as "Public reaction," and subheads for
Children/adult, Banning/religious controversy, etc.  Then we can add
more subheads as we see fit.

Carolyn:

> (5.1) Multiple Posts
> I probably have not been clicking this as often as I should, and 
> judging by the relatively few number of hits, nor has anyone else.
> Really, we should click this every time a post addresses more than one 
> topic in a formal way (as opposed to talking about many things in 
> relation to one point). However, not sure yet what we are going to do 
> about all these ? ie how they are to be pulled apart.
>  >
> 
> 
> Open to interpretation this one.
> When a post starts to resemble CatLady's weekly missives, that I think 
> is a multiple post. When it covers different actions, persons, 
> whatever, no mmatter  how diverse that are contained in one chapter, 
> then I check it as a chapter discussion; if it is a post on say, how  
> Hagrid got to the Rock, discussing various modes of travel, magic or 
> otherwise, it gets Hagrid and travel. To get a Multiple post  from me 
> it has had to contain a series of unconnected ideas or actions not 
> found in one chunk of text.

Anne:
I'm with Barry.  Usually, the Multiples I've run across contain a bit
of Reject material and then one on-topic section, which I code for. 
That will change after they create the OT list, of course.

>  >
> (5.4) TBAY
> Is everyone clear to tick this if you think a post is TBAY style, but 
> this tag has not been used in the post header.
>  >
> 
> Understood.

Anne:
ditto.


> 3.5.4 Blood protection. The GoF readers are aware of Harry's 
> protection, but not what it consists of.
> They  are under the impression that 'Privet Drive protection' is 
> different from his blood protection that V overcomes at the end of the 
> book.
> How do you want to handle that?
> Place Protection (unspecified) directly under Harry 2.4.3?
> 
> Privet Drive deserves a check box too.
> 
> I may be back with more.

Anne:
I'd code that under Dumbledore's agenda, Lily, and Harry.  Privet
Drive might be a good check box.

Sorry I got a little sloppy with attributions at the end, I'm right
out of time -- I knew I'd be having a busy weekend.





From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sun May  9 17:02:46 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 17:02:46 -0000
Subject: UPDATE, Sunday 9th May
Message-ID: <c7lo7m+du0e@eGroups.com>

Rather a major update this one as a lot has been discussed. I can't 
implement any of the proposed changes until tomorrow as the site is 
closed, so respond immediately if you don't agree with anything.

CODING PROGRESS:
To date, 6100 posts have been either coded or allocated to someone 
for coding. Out of these 6100, I think about 4700 have actually been 
done, and of these 4700, we seem to have rejected 75%. 

NEW MEMBERS:
Sigune, Arya & The Sergeant Majorette have joined - welcome to this 
mad project. Paul should be able to set up your access to the coding 
site on Monday. Please email Paul with any problems. The category 
list which is being discussed here is available in the meantime as a 
text file in the File section, but you will also see it just as soon 
as you get access to the coding site.

TECHNICAL STUFF:
Paul is going for option 2 in his post 167 because he wants help in 
further developing the site. This will mean some site access changes 
in due course. If you (a) understand what he is talking about (!) and 
have some technical suggestions; or (b) have had any thoughts on how 
the results of our coding should eventually be displayed for search 
by the members, please post.

PROPOSED CHANGES TO CATEGORY LIST:
Ok, I will attempt to summarise.

CATEGORY 0 - REJECT CODES

Trivia contests are definitely OT
HP rumours are OT

0.8 (Mere agreement/adding nothing new)
I am going to split this into the two headings, and add another 
head 'FAQ' so it looks like this:

0.8 Adds nothing new
0.8.1 Mere agreement
0.8.2 FAQs & their answers

CATEGORY 1 TEXT ANALYSIS

1.2 (War & military strategy)
Although there is a logic to it, there seemed no strong feeling that 
we should move 1.2.1 (Voldemort's agenda) and 1.2.2 (Dumbledore's 
agenda) to sub-heads under those characters, so for the time being I 
will leave them here.
1.2.4 (Spying, espionage & betrayal) should have two additional sub-
heads: 1.2.4.1 ESE! and 1.2.4.2 Trust. NB, ESE! posts should also be 
coded to relevant characters
1.2.5 (FEATHERBOAS) does not belong here, as it is really an attitude 
to plot development (!). Suggest it is moved to a sub-category under 
1.3.3.
1.2.6 (FLYING HEDGEHOGS) is really a sub-set of 1.2.4

1.3 (Literary techniques)
Suggest a new sub-category under 1.3.1 (Magical parameters set by 
JKR): 1.3.1.1 (Constraints due to genre). This is for all those 
people who say she can/can't do XYZ because of the type of books they 
are supposed to be. Perhaps this category should be re-named 
just 'Parameters set by JKR' ?

1.3.4 (Foreshadowing, clues & misdirection)
Suggest breaking this into two sections:
1.3.4.1 As literary technique
1.3.4.2 Examples

1.13 Predictions
Big discussion about what goes in these sections, boiling down to 
unsupported hunches vs detailed predictions. Proposal is to add two 
categories under each of the book headings as follows:
1.13.1 Book 4/GOF
1.13.1.1 Predictions/with canon
1.13.1.2 Predictions/no canon

1.13.4 (Book 7) general feeling not to add another heading to this 
(eg 'The End'), as it should be covered already.

CATEGORY 2 CHARACTER ANALYSIS
General decision not to remove theory acronyms for now, but to ask 
Paul to suppress them for the next 20 000 posts or so until we get 
into Theory Bay.

CATEGORY 3 THE WIZARDING WORLD

3.8.2 (General properties & types of magic)
3.8.2.2 Life debts added
3.8.6.8 Add (Time Travel - was 3.10.1) to Time turner & NOT REALLY 
theory acronym & remove time travel from travel section 3.10.

3.15.5 Rename Little Whinging: 'Privet Drive'.

3.16.1 (Layout of Hogwarts) A subsection has been added 'Bathrooms & 
loos' for all those debates about whether anyone ever uses a 
toothbrush.

3.16.10 Note new section on pets allowed at Hogwarts

CATEGORY 4 OTHER TOPICS

4.1 (Childrens' or adults' books ?) Going to rename this section 
simply 'Controversies' and make 'Childrens' or adults' books?' a sub-
section.
4.1.3 (Controversies, banning etc) Going to rename this 
section 'religious book banning' and add a new section 4.1.4 
(Stouffer legal case)

AOB
What this debate has reinforced is the need to be able to quickly 
check what has gone into a section already, ie be able to scroll down 
those posts, not just see their headings (which usually mean 
nothing). I think the ability to do this should be a technical 
priority for Paul, as it will mean we can edit as we go along.

Phew..
Going to find more alcohol..
Carolyn












From annemehr at yahoo.com  Mon May 10 01:30:52 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 01:30:52 -0000
Subject: UPDATE, Sunday 9th May
In-Reply-To: <c7lo7m+du0e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7mm0c+jalh@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "a_reader2003"
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:

> NEW MEMBERS:
> Sigune, Arya & The Sergeant Majorette have joined - welcome to this 
> mad project.

<Anne waves>

The following are some of my comments/remaining questions, though
generally I'm glad of the changes. Thanks for all the hard work, Carolyn!
 

> CATEGORY 1 TEXT ANALYSIS
[...]
> 
> 1.13 Predictions
> Big discussion about what goes in these sections, boiling down to 
> unsupported hunches vs detailed predictions. Proposal is to add two 
> categories under each of the book headings as follows:
> 1.13.1 Book 4/GOF
> 1.13.1.1 Predictions/with canon
> 1.13.1.2 Predictions/no canon
> 
> 1.13.4 (Book 7) general feeling not to add another heading to this 
> (eg 'The End'), as it should be covered already.

I still have a question about how to code predictions that can't be
pinned to a certain book.  For instance, after GoF we got a lot of
"Ron will betray Harry" posts.  Some of those placed the predicted
event in book 7, but others left the time wide open.  For those with
no projected book, are they coded as 1.13 and left at that as far as
the prediction category goes?


> CATEGORY 3 THE WIZARDING WORLD
> 
[...]
> 3.15.5 Rename Little Whinging: 'Privet Drive'.

I haven't used the Geography section yet.  My impression was that it
was for discussions on where places are located, local landscape,
customs, characteristics, etc., e.g. a post about Surrey as an
affluent suburb of London would go here.  I have not been using it for
discussions of the Dursleys' treatment of Harry; those I have been
coding under Harry, Petunia, Vernon, and sometimes Dudley. Do you
agree with that?

> 
> CATEGORY 4 OTHER TOPICS
> 
> 4.1 (Childrens' or adults' books ?) Going to rename this section 
> simply 'Controversies' and make 'Childrens' or adults' books?' a sub-
> section.
> 4.1.3 (Controversies, banning etc) Going to rename this 
> section 'religious book banning' and add a new section 4.1.4 
> (Stouffer legal case)

Uh oh. Most Stouffer posts I've rejected as off-topic (although really
most were, just assessments of the personal character of Nancy
Stouffer). The few more serious ones I did code, but I forget where. 
I guess it just points out that we are going to have to review our
work so far and make adjustments, eh?

I got some decent posts about the similarities between HP and some of
Diana Wynn Jones (sp?) works, which seemed to fit under literary
influences as all seemed to agree that the similarities were due to
the "fairy tale" format.


> Phew..
> Going to find more alcohol..
> Carolyn

Too...many...parties;...too...many...drinks;...must...drink...water...

Anne






From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Mon May 10 08:12:40 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 08:12:40 -0000
Subject: UPDATE, Sunday 9th May
In-Reply-To: <c7mm0c+jalh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7ndho+bqml@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "a_reader2003"
> <carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
> 
> > CATEGORY 1 TEXT ANALYSIS
> > 1.13 Predictions

> 
> I still have a question about how to code predictions that can't be
> pinned to a certain book.  For instance, after GoF we got a lot of
> "Ron will betray Harry" posts.  Some of those placed the predicted
> event in book 7, but others left the time wide open.  For those with
> no projected book, are they coded as 1.13 and left at that as far as
> the prediction category goes?

Carolyn:
If we code just to the main category number, we lose the distinction 
between unsupported hunches/closely argued predictions. I think I 
would tend to put such posts into Book 6 predictions, on the grounds 
that we will find out so much more when that is published, and the 
goalposts will move again. Mostly, I am only putting definite 'The 
End' predictions into the Book 7 slot at the moment.
> 
> 
> > CATEGORY 3 THE WIZARDING WORLD
> > 3.15.5 Rename Little Whinging: 'Privet Drive'.
> 
> I haven't used the Geography section yet.  My impression was that it
> was for discussions on where places are located, local landscape,
> customs, characteristics, etc., e.g. a post about Surrey as an
> affluent suburb of London would go here.  I have not been using it 
for discussions of the Dursleys' treatment of Harry; those I have been
coding under Harry, Petunia, Vernon, and sometimes Dudley. Do you
agree with that?

Carolyn:
Yes, you are quite right, it is supposed to be a geography category, 
and that is how I have used it. Maybe I should call it 'Little 
Whinging/Privet Drive'.

IIRC, Barry's original query was where to put stuff about the nature 
of the protection offered to Harry at Privet Drive, especially as at 
the point of GOF we did not know about the family blood protection 
angle. Its not really a good idea to put these in 3.15.5, and I guess 
what we do is use the benefit of hindsight and code these sort of 
posts to 3.5.4 (Blood Protection) under the heading 3.5 (Bloodlines & 
Inheritance). That will make sense to later readers, even if it would 
not have done at the time they were written.
> 
> > 
> > CATEGORY 4 OTHER TOPICS
4.1 (Childrens' or adults' books ?)  
Going to add a new section 4.1.4 Stouffer legal case
> 
> Uh oh. Most Stouffer posts I've rejected as off-topic (although 
really most were, just assessments of the personal character of Nancy
> Stouffer). The few more serious ones I did code, but I forget 
where. I guess it just points out that we are going to have to review 
our work so far and make adjustments, eh?

Carolyn:
Ok, what we can do is run up and down the threads when this section 
gets sorted out into its own Stouffer section, and see if any of 
those posts need reinstating to make sense of a run of comments. 
There were some good legal opinions put forward by members that I 
particularly coded there.
> 

Anne:
> I got some decent posts about the similarities between HP and some 
of Diana Wynn Jones (sp?) works, which seemed to fit under literary
influences as all seemed to agree that the similarities were due to
the "fairy tale" format.

Carolyn:
Yes, that's exactly what that section is for - especially children's 
classics in this instance. Have to say I was so disappointed with 
Diana Wynn Jones, when I bought a couple to see what people were on 
about. Gave them to a charity shop in disgust! 





From jdr0918 at hotmail.com  Mon May 10 19:07:10 2004
From: jdr0918 at hotmail.com (jdr0918)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 19:07:10 -0000
Subject: Accessing catalog site
In-Reply-To: <c67gja+oqiu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7ojsu+jmg1@eGroups.com>

<<<In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "kippesp" wrote: Be sure that 
you attempt to browse to http://24.0.225.196:8888 either just before 
or just after emailing me for the site username and password...>>>

I attempted and got "This page cannot be displayed..."

Oh, and I'm in New York City, Verizon DSL, if you need to know that.

--jayne




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Mon May 10 22:28:42 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 22:28:42 -0000
Subject: Accessing catalog site
In-Reply-To: <c7ojsu+jmg1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7ovmq+a5mg@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "jdr0918" <jdr0918 at h...> wrote:
> <<<In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "kippesp" wrote: Be sure that 
> you attempt to browse to http://24.0.225.196:8888 either just before 
> or just after emailing me for the site username and password...>>>
> 
> I attempted and got "This page cannot be displayed..."
> 
> Oh, and I'm in New York City, Verizon DSL, if you need to know that.
> 
> --jayne

I just tried to connect, and got the message that "The connection was
refused..."   Perhaps Paul has not turned his computer back on yet? 
Anyway, it's not just you.

Anne
at ~6:30 Eastern time





From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Tue May 11 04:33:08 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (Paul Kippes)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 21:33:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: {groups} [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Accessing catalog site
In-Reply-To: <c7ovmq+a5mg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040511043308.74331.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>

I can't remember where you are.  But if you're in Pittsburgh, the IP
address you are using now changed slightly from what you had last
week.  I've added this new range of IP numbers to solve this.


--- annemehr <annemehr at yahoo.com> wrote:

---------------------------------
--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "jdr0918" <jdr0918 at h...>
wrote:
> <<<In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "kippesp" wrote: Be sure
that 
> you attempt to browse to http://24.0.225.196:8888 either just
before 
> or just after emailing me for the site username and password...>>>
> 
> I attempted and got "This page cannot be displayed..."
> 
> Oh, and I'm in New York City, Verizon DSL, if you need to know
that.
> 
> --jayne

I just tried to connect, and got the message that "The connection was
refused..."   Perhaps Paul has not turned his computer back on yet? 
Anyway, it's not just you.

Anne
at ~6:30 Eastern time



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From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Tue May 11 07:50:29 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:50:29 -0000
Subject: Changes done
Message-ID: <c7q0k5+fn9a@eGroups.com>

Just to let everyone know, I made all the changes to the category 
list last night as per the Sunday update post.

I had no problem accessing the site, BTW. 

Judging by the names added to the access list, the only person who 
has not yet been set up is Arya (visit the site with your browser 
Arya & email Paul..). Everyone else should be able to get in now I 
hope.

Paul: we agreed at the weekend not to delete the theory acronyms for 
now, but would like to take you up on your suggestion of suppressing 
the acronyms in caps for the time being, until we get to Theory Bay. 
Will save a bit of scrolling time for the next 20 000 or so posts 
maybe.

Thanks
Carolyn






From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Tue May 11 09:45:25 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:45:25 -0000
Subject: Re-allocating posts/predictions section
Message-ID: <c7q7bl+cdia@eGroups.com>

As you will see, I have now added a with canon/no canon option to 
each of the 1.13 Book predictions sections.

Although we can start using these straight away, the posts we have 
done so far will not be split between these codes, and remain on 
1.13.1/1.13.2/1.13.3/1.13.4 respectively. Probably we should dive in 
and re-allocate them, to make sense of the section. Could I suggest 
that we each do our own posts?

Its quite easy - just click 's' to show what is there, make a note of 
your own post numbers, and then re-visit them, deleting the previous 
check mark and putting in a new one & saving again.

I think its worth taking the time to do this on this section. The 
only other place this problem occurred was the change I made to 0.8, 
but since these are all rejects, its not a priority to clean up the 
coding.

Normally, Paul could move a whole section of posts to a new heading 
for us, but this will be a judgement call on what goes in each of the 
new sub-categories, and can't be done en masse.

Carolyn




From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Tue May 11 19:29:13 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 20:29:13 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Changes done
In-Reply-To: <c7q0k5+fn9a@eGroups.com>
References: <c7q0k5+fn9a@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <7BED77DB-A381-11D8-8A9E-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>

I've run into a thread discussing the differences (if any) between 
wizards and warlocks.

Suggestions for a suitable category welcomed.

Barry




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Tue May 11 21:25:37 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 21:25:37 -0000
Subject: Changes done
In-Reply-To: <7BED77DB-A381-11D8-8A9E-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <c7rgch+pplu@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> I've run into a thread discussing the differences (if any) between 
> wizards and warlocks.
> 
> Suggestions for a suitable category welcomed.
> 
> Barry


Perhaps 3.4.3 (Physical types & wizard metabolism) ? 
Or 3.5.2 (Purebloods & half bloods) ?

I can add a category if neither of these are suitable.

Carolyn




From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Tue May 11 21:47:44 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (kippesp)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 21:47:44 -0000
Subject: Changes done
In-Reply-To: <c7q0k5+fn9a@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7rhm0+qc0v@eGroups.com>

I'll see about getting this in place on Sunday or soon thereafter

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "a_reader2003" 
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
> Just to let everyone know, I made all the changes to the category 
> list last night as per the Sunday update post.
> 
> I had no problem accessing the site, BTW. 
> 
> Judging by the names added to the access list, the only person who 
> has not yet been set up is Arya (visit the site with your browser 
> Arya & email Paul..). Everyone else should be able to get in now I 
> hope.
> 
> Paul: we agreed at the weekend not to delete the theory acronyms 
for 
> now, but would like to take you up on your suggestion of 
suppressing 
> the acronyms in caps for the time being, until we get to Theory 
Bay. 
> Will save a bit of scrolling time for the next 20 000 or so posts 
> maybe.
> 
> Thanks
> Carolyn




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Wed May 12 02:18:31 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 02:18:31 -0000
Subject: Changes done
In-Reply-To: <c7rgch+pplu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7s1hn+ubtk@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "a_reader2003"
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
> <arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> > I've run into a thread discussing the differences (if any) between 
> > wizards and warlocks.
> > 
> > Suggestions for a suitable category welcomed.
> > 
> > Barry
> 
> 
> Perhaps 3.4.3 (Physical types & wizard metabolism) ? 
> Or 3.5.2 (Purebloods & half bloods) ?
> 
> I can add a category if neither of these are suitable.
> 
> Carolyn

Except, I think it just as well might be either of these:

3.2.3	"????Political structure, MoM, WW govt [s]"

1.3.1  Magical parameters set by JKR

I always felt it may be a governmental thing since Warlock is part of
one of Dumbledore's titles.

Anne





From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Wed May 12 03:27:20 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (kippesp)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 03:27:20 -0000
Subject: power outtage
Message-ID: <c7s5io+adtu@eGroups.com>

Power had a blib 6 hours ago.  So the test site was down for 6 hours.




From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Wed May 12 04:47:28 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (kippesp)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 04:47:28 -0000
Subject: Priori Incantatum
Message-ID: <c7sa90+sjtp@eGroups.com>

post 4575 seems to need a category for Priori Incantatum.  If it is 
added, would you adjust the categories I've set?





From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed May 12 07:55:47 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 07:55:47 -0000
Subject: Priori Incantatum
In-Reply-To: <c7sa90+sjtp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7sla3+49tl@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "kippesp" <paul-groups at w...> 
wrote:
> post 4575 seems to need a category for Priori Incantatum.  If it is 
> added, would you adjust the categories I've set?

Carolyn:

Yes, I think so. I have added 3.8.4.3 Priori Incantatum under 3.8.4 
Spells, potions & incantations. I also added the code to one or two 
other posts in that thread.




From severelysigune at yahoo.co.uk  Wed May 12 09:00:57 2004
From: severelysigune at yahoo.co.uk (severelysigune)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:00:57 -0000
Subject: Priori Incantatum
In-Reply-To: <c7sla3+49tl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7sp49+kq79@eGroups.com>

Er - I have no access to the site yet (Dark magic working against me, 
I think) so I couldn't check the spelling there; and I seem to be 
making my d?but on his list with a pedantic remark - but I think
it 
is 'Priori IncantatEm' not '-tUm' (makes more sense in Latin, though 
I am aware that isn't a guarantee; in any case the Lexicon has -tEm).






From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed May 12 10:27:07 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 10:27:07 -0000
Subject: Priori Incantatum
In-Reply-To: <c7sp49+kq79@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7su5r+8bur@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "severelysigune" 
<severelysigune at y...> wrote:
> Er - I have no access to the site yet (Dark magic working against 
me, 
> I think) so I couldn't check the spelling there; and I seem to be 
> making my d?but on his list with a pedantic remark - but I think
> it 
> is 'Priori IncantatEm' not '-tUm' (makes more sense in Latin, 
though 
> I am aware that isn't a guarantee; in any case the Lexicon has -
tEm).

Carolyn:
Whoops, just checked my copy of GOF..you are quite right..will go in 
and change. Thanks!

On the access front, suggest you send Paul an email direct. You are 
definitely on the list on the site, but I think it is something to do 
with ID addresses changing constantly. But also, do double check the 
site address you are going to..Anne found she was out by just one 
full stop I think, and that fixed it..sorry for the problems: 
everyone gets in eventually.




From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Wed May 12 14:02:47 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (kippesp)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:02:47 -0000
Subject: Priori Incantatum
In-Reply-To: <c7su5r+8bur@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c7taq7+ru3j@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "a_reader2003" 
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
> Carolyn:
> Whoops, just checked my copy of GOF..you are quite right..will go 
in 
> and change. Thanks!
> 
> On the access front, suggest you send Paul an email direct. You 
are 
> definitely on the list on the site, but I think it is something to 
do 
> with ID addresses changing constantly. But also, do double check 
the 
> site address you are going to..Anne found she was out by just one 
> full stop I think, and that fixed it..sorry for the problems: 
> everyone gets in eventually.

If anyone is still having trouble seeing the site, try browsing 
there again http://24.0.225.196:8888 and letting me know you've done 
so.  I've seen no failed attempts since the 10th.

I'll look into the Sourceforge thing no earlier than Sunday.





From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Wed May 12 15:38:44 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:38:44 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] BTW
In-Reply-To: <c7su5r+8bur@eGroups.com>
References: <c7su5r+8bur@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <73D8CB87-A42A-11D8-805C-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>


BTW - the warlock dilemma I shuffled under 4.1 Characterisation in case 
anyone else runs into the same discussion.

Original idea posted 4331 - Nagini is Mrs Voldemort. I like it!

Barry




From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Wed May 12 16:52:44 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:52:44 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] BTW
In-Reply-To: <73D8CB87-A42A-11D8-805C-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
References: <c7su5r+8bur@eGroups.com> <73D8CB87-A42A-11D8-805C-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <CA72C6F0-A434-11D8-805C-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>

We need a category for the Riddle family.

It would also help if Ancestors/Descendants were split from 
Heirs/Inheritance -  I've  been ploughing through a massive thread on 
Harry's Family History and now it looks like the same thing is 
happening with Tom - and they  aren't talking about Slytherin or 
Gryffindor - it's Marvelo, Potter and guesses about Lily's maiden name.

Barry




From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Wed May 12 19:26:35 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 20:26:35 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] BTW
In-Reply-To: <CA72C6F0-A434-11D8-805C-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
References: <c7su5r+8bur@eGroups.com> <73D8CB87-A42A-11D8-805C-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com> <CA72C6F0-A434-11D8-805C-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <483739A8-A44A-11D8-805C-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>

Is it me?

Check posts 4464, 4469, 4471.

Let no-one say that  HP doesn't attract the cream.


Barry




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed May 12 19:47:06 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 19:47:06 -0000
Subject: BTW/Riddle family
In-Reply-To: <CA72C6F0-A434-11D8-805C-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <c7tuvq+hhke@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> We need a category for the Riddle family.
> 
> It would also help if Ancestors/Descendants were split from 
> Heirs/Inheritance -  I've  been ploughing through a massive thread 
on 
> Harry's Family History and now it looks like the same thing is 
> happening with Tom - and they  aren't talking about Slytherin or 
> Gryffindor - it's Marvelo, Potter and guesses about Lily's maiden 
name.
> 
> Barry

Carolyn:
Right, you've got the lot - grandparents, father, mother. NB mother & 
maternal grandfather under 'Other wizard characters' not muggles. 

Also split Ancestors & descendents off for you.




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed May 12 19:53:55 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 19:53:55 -0000
Subject: BTW
In-Reply-To: <483739A8-A44A-11D8-805C-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <c7tvcj+v6f9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> Is it me?
> 
> Check posts 4464, 4469, 4471.
> 
> Let no-one say that  HP doesn't attract the cream.
> 
> 
> Barry


Oh I needed this..I laughed so much I had to come back here to see 
what I supposed to be doing with the Riddles for you..

Carolyn




From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Thu May 13 17:41:42 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 18:41:42 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: BTW
In-Reply-To: <c7tvcj+v6f9@eGroups.com>
References: <c7tvcj+v6f9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <CBC76D32-A504-11D8-AF29-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>

I'm just going back sorting out canon/non canon predictions. Got 
confused at first -  I automatically assumed that the number in the 
first (ID) column was the relevant post not the one further in. 
Wondered why all those rejected posts were coming up as predictions.

Well, there's a thread of predictions based on a rumour (yes, I know it 
should be rejected) starting  at 2903. It seems a shame to throw it in 
the bin - the predictions are entertaining but based on a falsehood. Do 
these get counted as valid predictions (remembering that at the time 
no-one had a clue what was coming) or are they apocrypha, to be cast 
into the outer darkness?

Barry




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Thu May 13 19:44:36 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 19:44:36 -0000
Subject: BTW
In-Reply-To: <CBC76D32-A504-11D8-AF29-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <c80j74+if1a@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> > Well, there's a thread of predictions based on a rumour (yes, I 
know it should be rejected) starting  at 2903. It seems a shame to 
throw it in the bin - the predictions are entertaining but based on a 
falsehood. Do these get counted as valid predictions (remembering 
that at the time no-one had a clue what was coming) or are they 
apocrypha, to be cast into the outer darkness?
> 

Carolyn:
I'd put it in non-canon predictions..why not, its quite fun, and in a 
way, not totally wrong as he nearly did get expelled in OOP. Maybe at 
the time this rumour happened that plotline was still in GOF.




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Thu May 13 19:49:18 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 19:49:18 -0000
Subject: Butterbeer
Message-ID: <c80jfu+l0tu@eGroups.com>

Hm.. slightly losing my grip here. Do speculative recipes for 
butterbeer count ? I'll go and de-check them if there is a collective 
groan.

Carolyn




From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Thu May 13 20:00:01 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 21:00:01 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Butterbeer
In-Reply-To: <c80jfu+l0tu@eGroups.com>
References: <c80jfu+l0tu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1E457C60-A518-11D8-AF29-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>


It's  non-canon speculative analysis of Food and Drink canon.
Check the appropriate Prediction box, plus The Three Broomsticks plus 
St Mungo's. That should cover it.

Barry


On 13 May 2004, at 20:49, a_reader2003 wrote:

> Hm.. slightly losing my grip here. Do speculative recipes for
>  butterbeer count ? I'll go and de-check them if there is a collective
>  groan.
>
>  Carolyn
>
>
>
>
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From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Thu May 13 20:54:22 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 20:54:22 -0000
Subject: Butterbeer
In-Reply-To: <1E457C60-A518-11D8-AF29-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <c80n9u+t4ns@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> 
> It's  non-canon speculative analysis of Food and Drink canon.
> Check the appropriate Prediction box, plus The Three Broomsticks 
plus 
> St Mungo's. That should cover it.
> 
> Barry
> 
> 
> On 13 May 2004, at 20:49, a_reader2003 wrote:
> 
> > Hm.. slightly losing my grip here. Do speculative recipes for
> >  butterbeer count ? I'll go and de-check them if there is a 
collective
> >  groan.
> >
> >  Carolyn
> >

Erm..right, thanks... Just for you - posts 6514 &6522..
Carolyn




From kkearney at students.miami.edu  Fri May 14 03:51:06 2004
From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum)
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 03:51:06 -0000
Subject: list management vs off topic
Message-ID: <c81fna+ne6d@eGroups.com>

This probably doesn't matter much, since both categories are rejects.
 But I'm wondering how people are dealing with things such as chapter
summary setup (who wants to volunteer, what should we discuss, etc.).
 I've been a bit inconsistent, switching between 0.1 ADMIN/list
management and .4 Off Topic.

-Kelly, who is ever so grateful to the geniuses who decided to create
HPFGU-OTChatter

...and who was very amused by post 5091.  Seems we're a bit late.   




From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Fri May 14 05:59:17 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (Paul Kippes)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 22:59:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: {groups} [HPFGU-Catalogue] list management vs off topic
In-Reply-To: <c81fna+ne6d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040514055917.6359.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm glad you like the post.  I wrote it.


--- corinthum <kkearney at students.miami.edu> wrote:

---------------------------------
This probably doesn't matter much, since both categories are rejects.
 But I'm wondering how people are dealing with things such as chapter
summary setup (who wants to volunteer, what should we discuss, etc.).
 I've been a bit inconsistent, switching between 0.1 ADMIN/list
management and .4 Off Topic.

-Kelly, who is ever so grateful to the geniuses who decided to create
HPFGU-OTChatter

...and who was very amused by post 5091.  Seems we're a bit late.   


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From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Fri May 14 09:14:51 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:14:51 -0000
Subject: list management vs off topic
In-Reply-To: <c81fna+ne6d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c822mb+9kqm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "corinthum" <kkearney at s...> 
wrote:
 how people are dealing with things such as chapter summary setup 
(who wants to volunteer, what should we discuss, etc.).I've been a 
bit inconsistent, switching between 0.1 ADMIN/list management and .4 
Off Topic.
> 
> 
> ...and who was very amused by post 5091.  Seems we're a bit late.

Carolyn:
I suppose 0.1 Admin for preference. On the actual chapter summaries, 
I not only code them to the relevant chapter, but often highlight 
them in the text box at the end of the category list. Also, code them 
to relevant characters if there is extended discussion eg to Gred & 
Forge for Chap 5 GOF.

Ah.. so Paul is Smitster (post 5091).. this would explain a later 
reference I came across to a searchable database that 
(intermittently) no one could get into :)




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Fri May 14 14:18:29 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:18:29 -0000
Subject: Elkins' posts
Message-ID: <c82kfl+sdd4@eGroups.com>

I picked up this on the main list today and commend it to you all - 
what a joy to read all these posts in one place..

http://elkins.theennead.com




From dicentra at xmission.com  Fri May 14 18:32:41 2004
From: dicentra at xmission.com (Dicentra spectabilis)
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 18:32:41 -0000
Subject: Elkins' posts
In-Reply-To: <c82kfl+sdd4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c833c9+vmt7@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "a_reader2003"
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
> I picked up this on the main list today and commend it to you all - 
> what a joy to read all these posts in one place..
> 
> http://elkins.theennead.com

Actually, you'll need to go to

http://elkins.theennead.com/hp/

Her non-existent home page doesn't have a link.  :D

--Dicentra, who is also thrilled that Elk compiled her posts so that
she wouldn't have to




From kkearney at students.miami.edu  Sat May 15 01:16:05 2004
From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum)
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 01:16:05 -0000
Subject: Handwriting analysis
Message-ID: <c83r0l+5pmu@eGroups.com>

I came across a short series of posts discussing the handwriting of
various characters and what it shows.  Right now I've coded the one
response that discussed specific characters in the respective
categories, but I'm unsure what to do with the others.  Suggestions?

-Kelly




From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Sat May 15 09:32:22 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 10:32:22 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Handwriting analysis
In-Reply-To: <c83r0l+5pmu@eGroups.com>
References: <c83r0l+5pmu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <C4893F9E-A652-11D8-B7D9-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>

Why not 1.4 Characterisation?

Yeah, I know it's intended for JKR's characterisations but it's 
possible  to argue that handwriting is an aspect of just that that 
posters  are uncovering.

Barry


On 15 May 2004, at 02:16, corinthum wrote:

> I came across a short series of posts discussing the handwriting of
>  various characters and what it shows.? Right now I've coded the one
>  response that discussed specific characters in the respective
>  categories, but I'm unsure what to do with the others.? Suggestions?
>
>  -Kelly
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <lrec_companion_043004.gif>
> <l.gif>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> 	? 	To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Catalogue/
> ?
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From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sat May 15 11:44:28 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 11:44:28 -0000
Subject: Handwriting analysis
In-Reply-To: <C4893F9E-A652-11D8-B7D9-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <c84vqs+j2ta@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> Why not 1.4 Characterisation?
> 
> Yeah, I know it's intended for JKR's characterisations but it's 
> possible  to argue that handwriting is an aspect of just that that 
> posters  are uncovering.
> 
> Barry
> 
> 
> On 15 May 2004, at 02:16, corinthum wrote:
> 
> > I came across a short series of posts discussing the handwriting 
of various characters and what it shows.? Right now I've coded the one
response that discussed specific characters in the respective
categories, but I'm unsure what to do with the others.? Suggestions?
> >

Carolyn:
Yes, 1.4 Characterisation is probably the best bet for now. There is 
some stuff that comes up later on applying Myers-Brigg type 
indicators as well. If it these professional approaches (graphology 
etc) get extensive, we could create a category for them under 1.4 if 
you like. 




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sat May 15 15:30:07 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 15:30:07 -0000
Subject: Cleaning up predictions categories
Message-ID: <c85d1v+gqlr@eGroups.com>

Can I just remind you all about this one..there are still some posts 
under the general book titles, rather than allocated to canon/non 
canon categories.

Sorry, its a fiddly task, but better to clean up at this stage than 
dealing with thousands later.

Also, I thought I had done mine, but when I went back, I found there 
was another page more..worth checking.

Carolyn




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sun May 16 11:34:20 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 11:34:20 -0000
Subject: UPDATE Sunday 16th May
Message-ID: <c87jjs+somb@eGroups.com>

PROGRESS

Pleased to say we have now got to the end of the Yahoo Club posts, 
which finish at 7815. All are now either coded or allocated to 
someone to work on.

As far as I can see 6276 of the posts have actually been coded out of 
the 7815, and of the 6276, 4510 have been rejected. This is a rate of 
71%, which is great from the point of view of sorting out the 
resulting threads later.

We now leave the sheltered waters of the club and set sail for the 
shark-infested waters of Theory Bay...

CATEGORY CHANGES/DECISIONS

SECTION 1
1.3.5 Back history
A new category 1.3.5.1 (Death of Lily & James) has been added to put 
all the discussions of what happened at Godric's Hollow. This is 
because there are several different variations at different places in 
the books, and it makes sense to put all the theories in one place 
(?).

1.4 Characterisation
Both wizard/warlock discussions and handwriting analysis are 
currently being coded here. We may need some sub-categories to cater 
for this.

1.5 Symbolism
A new section 1.5.12 (Numbers) has been added with three sub-
categories: 
1.5.12.1 (Three)
1.5.12.2 (Four)
1.5.12.3 (Thirteen)
to take care of those posts which address things which appear to have 
a numerical significance (eg 13 at the table, repeated groups of 3 or 
4 characters etc)

1.13 Predictions
We shouldn't code anything to either the general category heading 
(1.13) or the general book codes (1.13.1, 1.13.2, 1.13.3, 1.13.4). 
Its important to use the sub-categories (with canon/no canon) and to 
pick a book for the prediction.

SECTION 2
2.8 Other Wizard characters
The following have been added:
2.8.16 Voldemort's mother
2.8.17 Tom Marvolo Riddle (Voldemort's maternal grandfather)

2.10 Muggles
The following have been added:
2.10.5 Mr & Mrs Riddle (Voldemort's paternal grandparents)
2.10.6 Tom Riddle (Voldemort's father)

SECTION 3
3.5 Bloodlines & inheritance
This has been split and 3.5.3.1 (Ancestors/descendants) is now a sub-
category. This should also be used for the discussions about whether 
the changing use of the words in the books was a FLINT or not.

Also, the protection offered to Harry by Privet Drive goes under 
3.5.4 (Blood protection)rather than 3.15.5 (Privet Drive/Little 
Whinging), which is meant as a geography section.

3.8.4 Spells, potions & incantations
Three sub-categories have been added:
3.8.4.3 Priori incantatem
3.8.4.5 Occlumency
3.8.4.6 Legilimency

That's it for this week I think.
Carolyn






From jdr0918 at hotmail.com  Sun May 16 15:54:14 2004
From: jdr0918 at hotmail.com (jayne reed)
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 11:54:14 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Elkins' posts
Message-ID: <BAY16-F78o7OhSOkzE500025459@hotmail.com>

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From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sun May 16 16:31:53 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 16:31:53 -0000
Subject: Elkins' posts
In-Reply-To: <BAY16-F78o7OhSOkzE500025459@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <c8851p+7gqf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "jayne reed" <jdr0918 at h...> 
wrote:
> 

Jayne - see Dicey's message following mine - apparently it needs to 
have '.hp' on the end to get to the site. I snipped it off, thinking 
it was unnecessary !

Carolyn




From kkearney at students.miami.edu  Sun May 16 18:20:16 2004
From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum)
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 18:20:16 -0000
Subject: UPDATE Sunday 16th May
In-Reply-To: <c87jjs+somb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c88bd0+3rlb@eGroups.com>

Caroline wrote:

> SECTION 2
> 2.8 Other Wizard characters
> The following have been added:
> 2.8.16 Voldemort's mother
> 2.8.17 Tom Marvolo Riddle (Voldemort's maternal grandfather)


The only part of Voldemort's maternal grandfather's name that we know
is "Marvolo" (which I've always assumed was his first name although
there's no canon to support or refute this).  Certainly his last name
was not Riddle, or we'd have an incestuous situation on our hands, and
"Tom" would be a bit too coincidental, don't you think?

-Kelly  




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sun May 16 19:20:45 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:20:45 -0000
Subject: UPDATE Sunday 16th May
In-Reply-To: <c88bd0+3rlb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c88eud+pi88@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "corinthum" <kkearney at s...> 
wrote:

> > 2.8.17 Tom Marvolo Riddle (Voldemort's maternal grandfather)
> 
> 
> The only part of Voldemort's maternal grandfather's name that we 
know is "Marvolo" (which I've always assumed was his first name 
although there's no canon to support or refute this).  Certainly his 
last name was not Riddle, or we'd have an incestuous situation on our 
hands, and "Tom" would be a bit too coincidental, don't you think?
> 
> -Kelly

Carolyn:
Good point..didn't think it through! I'll correct it. Thanks.




From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Mon May 17 14:08:04 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 15:08:04 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: UPDATE Sunday 16th May
In-Reply-To: <c88eud+pi88@eGroups.com>
References: <c88eud+pi88@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9D0736A4-A80B-11D8-AE5D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>

Available for work -  sort of.

What batch of numbers would you like me to tackle next?

Is there liable to be any hiatus when Paul  switches servers?

Barry





From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Mon May 17 14:13:22 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (Paul Kippes)
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 07:13:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: {groups} Re: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: UPDATE Sunday 16th May
In-Reply-To: <9D0736A4-A80B-11D8-AE5D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <20040517141322.14336.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com>

Switching servers, if it happens, would only take about 30 minutes. 
I doubt anyone would noticed.


--- Barry Arrowsmith <arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com> wrote:

---------------------------------
Available for work -  sort of.

What batch of numbers would you like me to tackle next?

Is there liable to be any hiatus when Paul  switches servers?

Barry



	
		
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From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Mon May 17 15:15:32 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 15:15:32 -0000
Subject: UPDATE Sunday 16th May
In-Reply-To: <9D0736A4-A80B-11D8-AE5D-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <c8akuk+pu9k@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> Available for work -  sort of.
> 
> What batch of numbers would you like me to tackle next?
> 
> Is there liable to be any hiatus when Paul  switches servers?
> 
> Barry


Ah good..can you take 101-600 on the main list (we've finished the 
Yahoo club)? There's a lot of chat going on about admin issues, so 
hopefully quite a quick batch to do.

Thanks
Carolyn




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Tue May 18 16:17:41 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:17:41 -0000
Subject: Things you find: apology due to Kneasy!
Message-ID: <c8dcv5+918f@eGroups.com>

Hm, Barry, have a look at posts 690 and 738.

I seem to remember you recently took Catlady to task for not knowing 
all this stuff about the UK, and I posted something to the effect of 
no-one knew it except you (!) as I thought you were being just a 
*bit* rough on a West coast resident (and I wanted her to join 
us..which she subsequently charmingly declined).

Alas, here is prime facie evidence that she had it all explained to 
her long ago..

Carolyn
grovel..apologies etc 




From dicentra at xmission.com  Tue May 18 18:27:47 2004
From: dicentra at xmission.com (Dicentra spectabilis)
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 18:27:47 -0000
Subject: Updated Magical Spreadsheet?
Message-ID: <c8dkj3+a0hk@eGroups.com>

Paul:

Now that our Call for Elves has gone out, we need to find what our
candidates have posted.  Do you have an updated version of the Magical
Spreadsheet that we can use (or something similar)?  A tab-delimited
text file would be fine.

--Dicentra




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Tue May 18 19:09:39 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 19:09:39 -0000
Subject: Peg Kerr's essays
Message-ID: <c8dn1j+d9s1@eGroups.com>

I have just come to the first of Peg's essays (post 788)on loyalty. 
What do people feel about the coding on these? She covers so many 
characters and so many scenes I could tick dozens of categories. On 
the other hand, I could just code to 1.1.3 (Friendship, love & 
loyalty).

Carolyn




From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Tue May 18 19:12:01 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (Paul Kippes)
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:12:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: {groups} [HPFGU-Catalogue] Updated Magical Spreadsheet?
In-Reply-To: <c8dkj3+a0hk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040518191201.32350.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com>

In the files section, yclub.csv.zip and ygroup.csv.zip should be
fine.  The second file may be too large and required splitting, but
other than that...  


--- Dicentra spectabilis <dicentra at xmission.com> wrote:

---------------------------------
Paul:

Now that our Call for Elves has gone out, we need to find what our
candidates have posted.  Do you have an updated version of the
Magical
Spreadsheet that we can use (or something similar)?  A tab-delimited
text file would be fine.

--Dicentra


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From dicentra at xmission.com  Tue May 18 20:14:07 2004
From: dicentra at xmission.com (Dicentra spectabilis)
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 20:14:07 -0000
Subject: {groups} [HPFGU-Catalogue] Updated Magical Spreadsheet?
In-Reply-To: <20040518191201.32350.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c8dqqf+rd27@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Paul Kippes <paul-groups at w...>
wrote:
> In the files section, yclub.csv.zip and ygroup.csv.zip should be
> fine.  


Dur. They're on MEG, too, and have been for some time.

--Dicey, slapping forehead




From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Tue May 18 20:36:23 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 21:36:23 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Things you find: apology due to Kneasy!
In-Reply-To: <c8dcv5+918f@eGroups.com>
References: <c8dcv5+918f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <06EDBA80-A90B-11D8-A1DB-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>



> Hm, Barry, have a look at posts 690 and 738.
>
>  I seem to remember you recently took Catlady to task for not knowing
>  all this stuff about the UK, and I posted something to the effect of
>  no-one knew it except you (!) as I thought you were being just a
>  *bit* rough on a West coast resident (and I wanted her to join
>  us..which she subsequently charmingly declined).
>
>  Alas, here is prime facie evidence that she had it all explained to
>  her long ago..
>
>  Carolyn
>  grovel..apologies etc


No need for apologies.

For some reason I suspected at the time that she had a good idea of the 
local geo-politics and was being just a wee bit provocative, sort of 
"let's see how sensitive the locals are" which is why I framed my 
response the way I did.

Can't  remember taking her to task, though; I seem to recall it was 
"more in sorrow than in anger," with a concise break-down of the 
relationships as follow-up.

I didn't  expect an answer - I've responded to quite a few of her posts 
over the past year and never got anything back - not that it bothers me 
particularly.

Oh, and  in response to the post you made - I've never been in a pub 
quiz in my life; never even seen one. I just have a mind like 
fly-paper, things stick.

Barry
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From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Tue May 18 21:04:11 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (Paul Kippes)
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:04:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: {groups} [HPFGU-Catalogue] Peg Kerr's essays
In-Reply-To: <c8dn1j+d9s1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040518210411.9911.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com>

I think these should also be given their own category.  I remember at
the time that these were a fairly big deal and well regarded.  At one
point there was also talk of making them into a book.

--- a_reader2003 <carolynwhite2 at aol.com> wrote:

---------------------------------
I have just come to the first of Peg's essays (post 788)on loyalty. 
What do people feel about the coding on these? She covers so many 
characters and so many scenes I could tick dozens of categories. On 
the other hand, I could just code to 1.1.3 (Friendship, love & 
loyalty).

Carolyn


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From kkearney at students.miami.edu  Wed May 19 03:30:49 2004
From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 03:30:49 -0000
Subject: {groups} [HPFGU-Catalogue] Peg Kerr's essays
In-Reply-To: <20040518210411.9911.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c8ekd9+6eg4@eGroups.com>

Regarding Peg Kerr's posts, Paul wrote:

> I think these should also be given their own category.  I remember at
> the time that these were a fairly big deal and well regarded.  At one
> point there was also talk of making them into a book.


I disagree.

In our final product, will there be a way to search by post author?

Although there are certainly certain people whose entire collection of
posts is worth reading, I don't feel there should be individual
categories dedicated to said people.  My impression was that this
project exists to help people sort through the thousands of posts for
relevant material, but not to specifically highlight the best posts. 
That, I think, should be reserved for "Fantastic Posts" or the like.

However, an author search (by yahoo id or e-mail address or whatever
info identifies a poster in Yahoo land) would be extremely helpful. 
That way, people could find all the posts written by their favorite
posters, regardless of whether we cataloguers felt those posters were
great or not.

As far as categorizing the more in-depth posts, I say choose as many
categories as seem applicable.  I don't think future
catalogue-browsers will be too upset if they are directed to a
comprehensive essay, even if it wasn't what they were looking for in
the first place.   

-Kelly




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed May 19 09:19:44 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:19:44 -0000
Subject: {groups} [HPFGU-Catalogue] Peg Kerr's essays
In-Reply-To: <c8ekd9+6eg4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c8f8rg+51rl@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "corinthum" <kkearney at s...> 
wrote:
> Regarding Peg Kerr's posts, Paul wrote:
> 
> > I think these should also be given their own category.  > 
> 
> I disagree.
> In our final product, will there be a way to search by post author?
> Although there are certainly certain people whose entire collection 
of posts is worth reading, I don't feel there should be individual
> categories dedicated to said people.  


Carolyn:
I think Kelly is right, it would be a mistake to start giving 
individual posters their own category (as we decided earlier with 
Ivan the Terrible). Anyway, where do you stop? It would be too 
difficult to justify exclusions IMO.

We haven't yet discussed searching by named author on this particular 
catalogue, having focused on the subjects so much. I am sure it is 
easy-enough to do if we wanted it (?Paul -what do you think?). I 
certainly like the idea of being able to pull out all an author's 
posts in one place, having made this tremendous effort to sort the 
wheat from the chaff. It would mean we had the cream of that person's 
work all together - very useful.

On the coding of Peg..I will go back and add some key ones. But not 
dozens probably. At the time, she actually got relatively few 
responses to the posts, which is a pity. I am sort of using the 
resulting threads to guide me on what aspects of the original posts 
people found most interesting. Tricky; they are very broad in their 
scope.

Carolyn




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Thu May 20 14:36:23 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:36:23 -0000
Subject: I'm still here!
Message-ID: <c8ifp7+5i3e@eGroups.com>

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to do a thing around here in a
couple of weeks!  In fact, I'm also a full week behind reading the
current HPfGU messages.  I've just been pretty swamped lately --
though naturally I checked out JKR's website and hopped into OT-C and
the Leaky, but nobody's going to blame me for that!

Anyway, hope to be back within a few days and begin catching up...

Anne







From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Thu May 20 15:11:32 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:11:32 -0000
Subject: I'm still here!
In-Reply-To: <c8ifp7+5i3e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c8ihr4+pja3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
wrote:

> 
> Anyway, hope to be back within a few days and begin catching up...
> 
> Anne

I was about to send out a search party! I noticed you weren't posting 
on the main list..glad you are back.

Carolyn




From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Sat May 22 14:42:44 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 15:42:44 +0100
Subject: Can...?
Message-ID: <49046341-ABFE-11D8-8FCF-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>

I've run into a thread on the real, actual geographical location of the 
Leaky Cauldron.

It's not in the current geography/location category.

Can it be added, please? Or do you think Diagon Alley is near enough?


Barry




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sat May 22 19:12:56 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 19:12:56 -0000
Subject: Can...?
In-Reply-To: <49046341-ABFE-11D8-8FCF-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <c8o8no+nspe@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> I've run into a thread on the real, actual geographical location of 
the 
> Leaky Cauldron.
> 
> It's not in the current geography/location category.
> 
> Can it be added, please? Or do you think Diagon Alley is near 
enough?
> 
> 
> Barry

Sure, why not. I've added it.
Carolyn




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sat May 22 19:55:33 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 19:55:33 -0000
Subject: Where to put pride & ambition
Message-ID: <c8ob7l+7ceo@eGroups.com>

Another extended Peg Kerr analysis of various character's -this time 
on pride and ambition (1209). Apart from noting the characters 
mentioned, is 1.4 (Characterisation) enough to capture this topic, or 
should it be a new meta theme (or two) ?

Carolyn




From kkearney at students.miami.edu  Sat May 22 22:24:19 2004
From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 22:24:19 -0000
Subject: (for Paul) A database, please?
Message-ID: <c8ojuj+rbg7@eGroups.com>

Paul,

Sorry to keep harping on this, but I would really like to be able to
work on this project while I'm away, and this is my last weekend
before I leave.  Could you please e-mail me?

Thanks,
Kelly




From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Sun May 23 01:52:52 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (Paul Kippes)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 18:52:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: {groups} [HPFGU-Catalogue] (for Paul) A database, please?
In-Reply-To: <c8ojuj+rbg7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040523015252.31711.qmail@web13802.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm going to see what I can get done with this tonight.  No promises.


--- corinthum <kkearney at students.miami.edu> wrote:

---------------------------------
Paul,

Sorry to keep harping on this, but I would really like to be able to
work on this project while I'm away, and this is my last weekend
before I leave.  Could you please e-mail me?

Thanks,
Kelly


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From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Sun May 23 07:31:35 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (kippesp)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 07:31:35 -0000
Subject: (for Paul) A database, please?
In-Reply-To: <c8ojuj+rbg7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c8pk0n+32tr@eGroups.com>

I'm getting ready to upload the database to the FA server.  
Otherwise it will take hours to pull from my house.

I've finished the changes so that we can determine from a local 
database copy, the category changes from a particular date/time.

Can you confirm again what operating system this will be?  I'll need 
to do a dry run, so I'll use that to know what to aim for.

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "corinthum" <kkearney at s...> 
wrote:
> Paul,
> 
> Sorry to keep harping on this, but I would really like to be able 
to
> work on this project while I'm away, and this is my last weekend
> before I leave.  Could you please e-mail me?
> 
> Thanks,
> Kelly




From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Sun May 23 07:45:45 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (kippesp)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 07:45:45 -0000
Subject: Having two databases
Message-ID: <c8pkr9+u323@eGroups.com>

If everything works with installing the DB on Kelly's computer, 
we'll need to adjust how a few things are done.

I've added some place holder categories (see end of cateogy list).  
Since all the database relations are kept using a numeric ID, there 
is the potential for problems if the two databases get out of sync.

This should be the basic scenerio for adding a category:

Reviewer: "I need a category 'confusing issues'"
Carolyn: "Okay, TBD1 will be renamed 'confusing issues' and moved to 
be a sub category of TEXT ANALYSIS"
Carolyn: "Kelly, you need to update your category list!"
Kelly: "Okay, TBD1 will be renamed 'confusing issues' and moved to 
be a sub category of TEXT ANALYSIS"

The important thing to not is that neither database will have added 
a category, only renamed an existing one.  If 9 is not enough, its 
too late unless I make a copy for Kelly again--possible, just 
worried about having enough time.





From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Sun May 23 07:46:14 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (kippesp)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 07:46:14 -0000
Subject: (for Paul) A database, please?
In-Reply-To: <c8pk0n+32tr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c8pks6+515v@eGroups.com>

When should we do this?

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "kippesp" <paul-groups at w...> 
wrote:
> I'm getting ready to upload the database to the FA server.  
> Otherwise it will take hours to pull from my house.
> 
> I've finished the changes so that we can determine from a local 
> database copy, the category changes from a particular date/time.
> 
> Can you confirm again what operating system this will be?  I'll 
need 
> to do a dry run, so I'll use that to know what to aim for.
> 
> --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "corinthum" 
<kkearney at s...> 
> wrote:
> > Paul,
> > 
> > Sorry to keep harping on this, but I would really like to be 
able 
> to
> > work on this project while I'm away, and this is my last weekend
> > before I leave.  Could you please e-mail me?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Kelly




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sun May 23 08:53:40 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 08:53:40 -0000
Subject: Having two databases
In-Reply-To: <c8pkr9+u323@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c8poqk+v9f2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "kippesp" <paul-groups at w...> 
wrote:
> If everything works with installing the DB on Kelly's computer, 
> we'll need to adjust how a few things are done.
> 
> I've added some place holder categories (see end of cateogy list).  
> Since all the database relations are kept using a numeric ID, there 
> is the potential for problems if the two databases get out of sync.
> 
> This should be the basic scenerio for adding a category:
> 
> Reviewer: "I need a category 'confusing issues'"
> Carolyn: "Okay, TBD1 will be renamed 'confusing issues' and moved 
to 
> be a sub category of TEXT ANALYSIS"
> Carolyn: "Kelly, you need to update your category list!"
> Kelly: "Okay, TBD1 will be renamed 'confusing issues' and moved to 
> be a sub category of TEXT ANALYSIS"
> 
> The important thing to not is that neither database will have added 
> a category, only renamed an existing one.  If 9 is not enough, its 
> too late unless I make a copy for Kelly again--possible, just 
> worried about having enough time.

Carolyn:
Um..no, not sure I entirely follow what I am supposed to do. However, 
if the nine place holder categories at the end of the list are some 
kind of temporary stand-ins to help reconcile Kelly's dbase and ours 
when she gets back from her trip, I would guess that they would not 
be enough. For example, there are 6 new categories this week alone, 
and its a quiet week! But I have probably misunderstood their purpose.

BTW Kelly, are you ok with me emailing the weekly update to you, or 
would you like that text shortened or changed in any way. Don't want 
to embarass you if the text can be read by the whole ship ! (On the 
other hand, you could recruit the whole crew to help..)





From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Sun May 23 16:10:04 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (Paul Kippes)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 09:10:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: {groups} [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Having two databases
In-Reply-To: <c8poqk+v9f2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040523161004.46032.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com>

Alright, I've worked out a way that should be fine assuming there is
very good communication between Carolyn and Kelly.  Carolyn must
always communicate the ID of the new category to Kelly.  And Kelly
must always use that ID when creating a new category.

Kelly's computer will show an extra field when creating categories to
allow her to override the category ID.  This is only during the
creation phase.  So once the category has been created, the IDs must
match.  If not, the best thing would be for Kelly to delete the newly
created--yet incorrect--category and create again (with the correctly
ID).

I'll remove those TBD categories, redump the database, and reupload
the new dump.  No sense having several procedures to do this.


--- a_reader2003 <carolynwhite2 at aol.com> wrote:

---------------------------------
--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "kippesp" <paul-groups at w...> 
wrote:
> If everything works with installing the DB on Kelly's computer, 
> we'll need to adjust how a few things are done.
> 
> I've added some place holder categories (see end of cateogy list). 

> Since all the database relations are kept using a numeric ID, there

> is the potential for problems if the two databases get out of sync.
> 
> This should be the basic scenerio for adding a category:
> 
> Reviewer: "I need a category 'confusing issues'"
> Carolyn: "Okay, TBD1 will be renamed 'confusing issues' and moved 
to 
> be a sub category of TEXT ANALYSIS"
> Carolyn: "Kelly, you need to update your category list!"
> Kelly: "Okay, TBD1 will be renamed 'confusing issues' and moved to 
> be a sub category of TEXT ANALYSIS"
> 
> The important thing to not is that neither database will have added

> a category, only renamed an existing one.  If 9 is not enough, its 
> too late unless I make a copy for Kelly again--possible, just 
> worried about having enough time.

Carolyn:
Um..no, not sure I entirely follow what I am supposed to do. However,

if the nine place holder categories at the end of the list are some 
kind of temporary stand-ins to help reconcile Kelly's dbase and ours 
when she gets back from her trip, I would guess that they would not 
be enough. For example, there are 6 new categories this week alone, 
and its a quiet week! But I have probably misunderstood their
purpose.

BTW Kelly, are you ok with me emailing the weekly update to you, or 
would you like that text shortened or changed in any way. Don't want 
to embarass you if the text can be read by the whole ship ! (On the 
other hand, you could recruit the whole crew to help..)




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From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Sun May 23 16:14:38 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (kippesp)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 16:14:38 -0000
Subject: Having two databases (Again)
Message-ID: <c8qile+f6rm@eGroups.com>

I'm dumping now.  Any category ID greater than 1009 must be 
duplicated in Kelly's local database.  




From kkearney at students.miami.edu  Sun May 23 18:39:07 2004
From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 18:39:07 -0000
Subject: {groups} [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Having two databases
In-Reply-To: <20040523161004.46032.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c8qr4b+rheu@eGroups.com>

Paul wrote:

> Alright, I've worked out a way that should be fine assuming there is
> very good communication between Carolyn and Kelly.  Carolyn must
> always communicate the ID of the new category to Kelly.  And Kelly
> must always use that ID when creating a new category.
> 
> Kelly's computer will show an extra field when creating categories to
> allow her to override the category ID.  This is only during the
> creation phase.  So once the category has been created, the IDs must
> match.  If not, the best thing would be for Kelly to delete the newly
> created--yet incorrect--category and create again (with the correctly
> ID).

Okay, I think I'm on the same page with you so far.  Tomorrow I'll
send Caroline the e-mail address where I can be reached; weekly
e-mails should be no problem.  

My computer has a Windows XP operating system.  I've downloaded Apache
(the Windows Installer package, apache_2.0.49_win32-x86-no_ssl.msi),
PHP (php_4.3.6-Win32), and MySQL (mysql-4.0.18-win), but haven't
installed any of these yet.  I'll likely need some guidance to do so.
 Also, how do I access the FA server (or do I need to)?

Thanks Paul.

- Kelly




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sun May 23 19:32:22 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 19:32:22 -0000
Subject: UPDATE, Sunday 23rd May
Message-ID: <c8qu86+ksv1@eGroups.com>

PROGRESS

We have currently coded, or allocated 9115 posts (7815 in the Yahoo 
club, 1300 on the main list). Of these 9115, 7804 have actually been 
done, and of the 7804, 5409 have been rejected - a continuing healthy 
reject rate of 69%.

Great -  thanks for putting in the effort this week. Jayne has 
requested that I check over the first set of coded posts that she has 
done - would anyone else like me to do this? Its obviously important 
we all have the same concept of what the categories are about.

TECH STUFF
Paul has found out that the Sourceforge solution won't work, as they 
won't permit a database greater than 100 MB, and ours is already 
greater than 300 MB. Not sure what our next move is - Paul ?

Kelly is shortly off for a couple of months on the ocean wave, which 
is what all these technical emails are about. As she has only limited 
access to email while on board ship, we are hoping she can work on a 
duplicate copy of the database. A quick question on this Kelly/Paul: 
when you say I must supply the correct ID for every post change, do 
you mean the displayed number on the category list, or some other 
number? If I send the details as shown below, is this enough?

Additional categories are probably quite simple but what does Kelly 
do if we change or delete a category?

CATEGORY ADDITIONS this week:

1.6.9 Fantasy fiction

2.10.7 Mr & Mrs Evans (Lily & Petunia's parents)

3.3.6 Rules & ethics for using magic

3.8.4.3 Veritaserum

3.8.6.8 Mirror of Erised

3.15.2.3 Leaky Cauldron

You nearly got 3.7.9 Wizard porn, but alas the thread wandered off 
into a discussion of Voldemort's erm, capabilities before being 
vapourised and after re-birth... conclusion: he'd really need that 
wand to attract (read Imperio) the girls..






From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Sun May 23 19:48:03 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (Paul Kippes)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 12:48:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: {groups} [HPFGU-Catalogue] UPDATE, Sunday 23rd May
In-Reply-To: <c8qu86+ksv1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040523194803.80626.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com>

--- a_reader2003 <carolynwhite2 at aol.com> wrote:
A quick question on this Kelly/Paul: 
when you say I must supply the correct ID for every post change, do 
you mean the displayed number on the category list, or some other 
number? If I send the details as shown below, is this enough?

paul:
No. You'd need to say for "Leaky Cauldron":
3.15.2.3,  id=994, "The Leaky Cauldron"

Kelly would use all three pieces in creating the category on her end.

As far as changing or deleting, nothing special.  Just clearly
indicate the categories to Kelly.



	
		
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From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Tue May 25 13:05:35 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:05:35 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Someone please tell me this is a joke ?
In-Reply-To: <c8tnkt+74db@eGroups.com>
References: <c8tnkt+74db@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <36086EDE-AE4C-11D8-860E-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>



> As a profoundly cynical Brit, this person's list-name seems to me to
>  be a joke too far.. "(Mrs.) Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force)"
>
>  One of you Americans out there agree with me..please ? (& Kneasy I'm
>  counting on you..)
>
>  Carolyn
>  Feeling more than usually dismayed


Yep, I saw it too - with feelings of foreboding.
And I don't think  it's a joke.

To those west  of the water I should explain that back here religion is 
a private matter. If questioned - which is highly unlikely to happen - 
your answer will reflect your  attitudes to privacy as much as to 
religion. (When I'm asked I respond that  it's none of the questioner's 
damn business what I  believe.) But to advertise your religious beliefs 
unasked is a very bad sign. It's a storm warning if someone does so and 
is usually a precursor to aggressive proselytising. Expect trouble as 
hackles are raised. Someone who feels particularly strongly about it 
could make a pre-emptive strike. Bad news.

Barry


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From jdr0918 at hotmail.com  Tue May 25 17:33:27 2004
From: jdr0918 at hotmail.com (jdr0918)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:33:27 -0000
Subject: Someone please tell me this is a joke ?
In-Reply-To: <36086EDE-AE4C-11D8-860E-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com>
Message-ID: <c90017+ati3@eGroups.com>

<<<In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith  wrote:
Yep, I saw it too - with feelings of foreboding. And I don't think  
it's a joke.
... to advertise your religious beliefs unasked is a very bad sign. 
It's a storm warning if someone does so and is usually a precursor to 
aggressive proselytising.>>>

She sounds spooky to me, too. I'm from New York, which is different 
from the rest of the country; most of the US is a little more open to 
effusive religiosity.

I got an e-mail from her -- completely inoffensive: apparently she's 
also from New York, so maybe she has more self control that her 
screen-name indicates.

I will issue a warning order if I get any communication from her that 
sounds pre-preachy.

--jayne (aka The Sergeant Majorette) 




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed May 26 08:24:14 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:24:14 -0000
Subject: Someone please tell me this is a joke ?
In-Reply-To: <c90017+ati3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c91k7e+rul1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "jdr0918" <jdr0918 at h...> 
wrote:
> <<<In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith  wrote:
> Yep, I saw it too - with feelings of foreboding. And I don't think  
> it's a joke.
> ... to advertise your religious beliefs unasked is a very bad sign. 
> It's a storm warning if someone does so and is usually a precursor 
to 
> aggressive proselytising.>>>
> 
Jayne:
> She sounds spooky to me, too. I'm from New York, which is different 
> from the rest of the country; most of the US is a little more open 
to 
> effusive religiosity.
>


Carolyn:
I was so fed up about it I even asked Geoff Bannister what he 
thought, and he agreed it was unwise to be so upfront, although in 
his opinion the actual content of her posts was more New Age than 
Bible belt. 

Well, either way, she's gone on my 'ignore' list, which is currently 
rather extensive..




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed May 26 10:15:10 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:15:10 -0000
Subject: Begonias! (was Re: Someone please tell me this is a joke? )
In-Reply-To: <c91k7e+rul1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c91qne+i2l7@eGroups.com>


> Carolyn:
> I was so fed up about it I even asked Geoff Bannister what he 
> thought, and he agreed it was unwise to be so upfront, although in 
> his opinion the actual content of her posts was more New Age than 
> Bible belt. 
> 
> Well, either way, she's gone on my 'ignore' list, which is 
currently rather extensive..


Carolyn, later:
Sense of humour 150% restored by Barry's suggestion that Voldie grows 
begonias (99349).. thank you kindly, sir.. I shall treasure that one 
for a long time.

(I spent the day at the Chelsea flower show yesterday carefully 
avoiding these monstrous floral objects, but swear I saw Vernon & 
Petunia heading for the stands....a new, and failsafe ESE! indicator 
methinks).






From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com  Wed May 26 15:17:08 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (arrowsmithbt)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 15:17:08 -0000
Subject: Locked out
Message-ID: <c92cdk+i50o@eGroups.com>


Has the password been changed without my noticing?

Tried half a dozen times with the usual one but it keeps
being rejected.

Barry





From paul-groups at wibbles.org  Wed May 26 15:19:54 2004
From: paul-groups at wibbles.org (Paul Kippes)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:19:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: {groups} [HPFGU-Catalogue] Locked out
In-Reply-To: <c92cdk+i50o@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040526151954.51992.qmail@web13811.mail.yahoo.com>

My error.  Fixing now and should be working in 10 min.


--- arrowsmithbt <arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com> wrote:

---------------------------------

Has the password been changed without my noticing?

Tried half a dozen times with the usual one but it keeps
being rejected.

Barry



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From kkearney at students.miami.edu  Wed May 26 16:37:19 2004
From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:37:19 -0000
Subject: Someone please tell me this is a joke ?
In-Reply-To: <c91k7e+rul1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c92h3v+2cjb@eGroups.com>

Barry:

> > Yep, I saw it too - with feelings of foreboding. And I don't 
think  
> > it's a joke.
> > ... to advertise your religious beliefs unasked is a very bad 
sign. 
> > It's a storm warning if someone does so and is usually a 
precursor 
> to 
> > aggressive proselytising.>>>

Jayne: 

> > She sounds spooky to me, too. I'm from New York, which is 
different 
> > from the rest of the country; most of the US is a little more 
open 
> to 
> > effusive religiosity.

Carolyn:

> I was so fed up about it I even asked Geoff Bannister what he 
> thought, and he agreed it was unwise to be so upfront, although in 
> his opinion the actual content of her posts was more New Age than 
> Bible belt. 


I'm sorry, am I missing something here?  I haven't had time to keep 
up with the main board lately, but I just went back and read Lee's 
last few posts.  Other than the verbose handle and a little poem in 
her signature, I see absolutely nothing to distinguish the content of 
her posts from the hundreds of other posters.  She hasn't preached, 
she hasn't tried to convert anyone, she hasn't even presented 
anything remotely controversial in her posts.  Suddenly she's an 
aggressive proselytizer, spooky, and unwise, all due to a harmless, 
pretty generic phrase?  Come on.

At the very least, could this be taken to OT-Chatter, where Lee could 
have the chance to defend herself?  All this has nothing to do with 
the catalogue.

-Kelly
 




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed May 26 21:31:36 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 21:31:36 -0000
Subject: Someone please tell me this is a joke ?
In-Reply-To: <c92h3v+2cjb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c932bo+55n7@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "corinthum" <kkearney at s...> 
wrote:
> At the very least, could this be taken to OT-Chatter, where Lee 
could have the chance to defend herself?  All this has nothing to do 
with the catalogue.
> 

Carolyn:
I agree, its nothing to do with the catalogue and I probably 
shouldn't have posted it at all, sorry. It was just a personal 
dislike of my own which, rather late at night when I was tired and 
irritated I just put up to see what other people thought.

As to taking it to OT chatter, I don't have the energy or the time 
for the ensuing debate, which I know I would just find depressing. 
The list is an organic and democratic entity and she's not doing 
anything wrong within the rules. Its for me to put up with, whether I 
like it or not. 

There is no way it will affect the coding of her posts when we get to 
them, they will just be reviewed on merit, same as anyone else's. As 
you point out, the actual content of what she has written is somewhat 
different from the assertive (and to me, somewhat offensive) name she 
has chosen to use.




From dicentra at xmission.com  Wed May 26 23:55:10 2004
From: dicentra at xmission.com (Dicentra spectabilis)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 23:55:10 -0000
Subject: Someone please tell me this is a joke ?
In-Reply-To: <c932bo+55n7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c93aou+qu9h@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "a_reader2003"
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:

> As 
> you point out, the actual content of what she has written is somewhat 
> different from the assertive (and to me, somewhat offensive) name she 
> has chosen to use.

Would it help to understand her if you knew she was blind?  Sometimes
the visually or hearing-impaired don't pick up on all of the
subtleties of socially acceptable behavior, such as the way Stevie
Wonder moves his head and smiles wildly.  He can't tell that he's the
only one who does that.  Or maybe he just doesn't care what others
think. :D

--Dicey, who found that tidbit of info in our Good Posters database,
to which y'all don't have access and so couldn't know




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Thu May 27 08:58:07 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:58:07 -0000
Subject: Someone please tell me this is a joke ?
In-Reply-To: <c93aou+qu9h@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c94aiv+jnht@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Dicentra spectabilis" 
<dicentra at x> wrote:
> 
> Would it help to understand her if you knew she was blind?  

Sometimes the visually or hearing-impaired don't pick up on all of the
> subtleties of socially acceptable behavior, 
> 
> --Dicey, who found that tidbit of info in our Good Posters database,
> to which y'all don't have access and so couldn't know

Carolyn:
With the greatest respect, I think this is bringing an entirely 
different issue to the table. My understanding and knowledge of 
disabled people is that their primary desire is to be treated as far 
as possible in the same way as the able-bodied. An on-line discussion 
group obviously gives good scope for this, and she seems to have 
found a way of successfully overcoming her disability in order to 
debate with us. 

Naturally, anyone would have the greatest sympathy with the extra 
effort which this involves, but as she has not chosen to make her 
blindness public, I can only infer she prefers us to take her 
contributions on merit in the same way as anyone else's.

The only respect in which it may have a bearing is if she has no idea 
what names other people are using on the list, and only knows the 
posts by their numbers, for instance. She is replying using people's 
list names in the body of her posts, so that doesn't appear to be the 
case.

I think it is more a question of cultural dissonance than anything 
else. The public avowal of faith seems to be far more acceptable in 
the US than in the UK. Just a whiff of it makes our toes curl, 
borderline likely to make us very angry. We have an almost visceral 
determination to think what we *** well like, and to reject any 
attempt to suggest there is a common orthodoxy to which everyone 
generally subscribes. 

In a discussion group of this type, where one of the central themes 
is the battle between good and evil in the books, a chosen name like 
this creates an immediate prejudice in the Brit mind, at least, as to 
where she is coming from in her arguments. It may not be correct, but 
it raises the hackles.





From dicentra at xmission.com  Fri May 28 05:38:00 2004
From: dicentra at xmission.com (Dicentra spectabilis)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 05:38:00 -0000
Subject: Someone please tell me this is a joke ?
In-Reply-To: <c94aiv+jnht@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c96j7o+qulr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "a_reader2003"
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:

> I think it is more a question of cultural dissonance than anything 
> else. The public avowal of faith seems to be far more acceptable in 
> the US than in the UK. Just a whiff of it makes our toes curl, 
> borderline likely to make us very angry. We have an almost visceral 
> determination to think what we *** well like, and to reject any 
> attempt to suggest there is a common orthodoxy to which everyone 
> generally subscribes. 

I think you're exactly right: it's a cultural thing.  Perhaps because
in the U.S. we've never had a state religion?  I can see how that
could explain the different sensitivities.

--Dicentra




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sat May 29 20:34:47 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 20:34:47 -0000
Subject: Site on go-slow?
Message-ID: <c9as57+i7nh@eGroups.com>

Is it just my computer or are we having a go-slow on the site again??

Carolyn




From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Sun May 30 19:42:36 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 19:42:36 -0000
Subject: UPDATE, Sunday 30th May
Message-ID: <c9ddfc+u7s8@eGroups.com>

PROGRESS
Somewhat slow progress this week. A total of 9345 posts have now been 
coded/allocated. Of these 9345, 8138 have actually been done, and of 
the 8138, 5599 have been rejected - a rate of 68%.

NEW MEMBERS
Pleased to welcome Dan (DarkThirty) to the group. Arya decided she 
had too many RL committments to work on the project, and has left for 
now. After a discussion with Kelley on Friday, I am putting together 
a further list of people to approach - please email me with any 
suggestions.

CATEGORY CHANGES THIS WEEK
The following new categories have been added:
2.13.1.4 (ID:1010) The Fat Friar
2.13.1.5 (ID:1011) The Grey Lady
3.8.4.7 (ID:1012) Patronus
3.11.3 (ID:1013) Cameras