From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Sat Jan 1 21:02:28 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2005 21:02:28 -0000 Subject: UPDATE, 1st Jan 2005 & Summary for MEG Message-ID: I am doing this update a day early because of the date, and also incorporating a short summary for MEG, which I have promised to provide every month [Kelley can you copy the following paragraph to them?] ****************************************************************** PROGRESS ON CATALOGUING PROJECT AS AT 1st Jan 2005 The group has now catalogued 42815 posts in total, including the old Yahoo Club. We have reached post 35000 on the main list. In the process, we have rejected 23001 posts - 56.5% of the total coded. There are therefore 19814 posts currently in the catalogue. The group currently has 23 members, of which 14 are actively coding. On the technical front the most pressing issue at the moment is a projected change of server from Paul's personal computer to a hosted service. We anticipate that this will happen in the first few weeks of January, and hopefully resolve a number of problems ranging from a slow connection to security issues for Paul. The second technical priority is to push forward with the screen designs for the user interface, and to scope out the technical details for that part of the project. Tim Regan has begun to sketch out these proposals. The plan is to have the search screens up and working by April/May 05. The date at which the catalogue can be launched depends on a decision as to how much of the list needs to be catalogued before it becomes a useful resource for the members. ******************************************************************* Back to normal service: PROGRESS OVER LAST TWO WEEKS In the two weeks since I last did an update, we have coded 784 posts, with 8 people putting in some time over Christmas and New Year. CODING ERRORS: Could you check the following and decide on the reject/non-reject status? 33998, 33993 (Talisman) 32878, 32881 (Debbie) 29280, 29277, 29273, 29256 (Eva) NEW CATEGORIES: See Snape and Lupin acronyms for new sub-heads 1.1.1.2 Redemption (no longer an acronym but a normal sub-head) 1.1.5.1 Graveyards & Burial Practices From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Sun Jan 2 12:45:56 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 12:45:56 -0000 Subject: The priceless Eric Oppen [from 35002] Message-ID: After all, we don't know what Lily Evans looked like as a young girl, do we? Just because Harry thought she was beautiful in the Mirror of Erised, doesn't mean she was always beautiful. Until she got her growth spurt, which could have come in her last couple of years at Hogwarts, she could have been "Miss Shorty-Greasy-Spot-Spot" to all and sundry. Or, more prosaically, who's to say that Snape even goes for redheads? According to Sydney Biddle Barrows, the so-called "Mayflower Madam," men divide into two camps on the subject of redheads---Love 'Em and Can't Stand 'Em. If Snape is in the second category, he could be _friends_ with Lily Evans, while feeling no great attraction for her, and, again for all we know, breaking the hearts (and certain other things) of half the girls in Slytherin House. Severus' girlfriend-of-the-moment is never particularly threatened by Lily's presence in his life, because they're _known_ to only be platonic friends---who'd want to snog Miss Shorty-Greasy-Spot-Spot, anyway?--- and she's got enough to worry about keeping her trophy-boyfriend away from those other cows in Slytherin House, who'd steal him right out from under her if they saw an opening. From willsonkmom at msn.com Mon Jan 3 15:09:41 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (Kathy Willson) Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 10:09:41 -0500 Subject: Fortescue Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From willsonkmom at msn.com Mon Jan 3 15:29:50 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (Kathy Willson) Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 10:29:50 -0500 Subject: recorded books Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Mon Jan 3 15:42:12 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 15:42:12 -0000 Subject: Fortescue/HP tapes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Kathy Willson" wrote: > [a message which does not come up when I click reply, who knows why] but anyway, have added Fortescue to list of misc wizard characters. Click Diagon Alley for stuff about his ice cream parlour. Kathy: >Two questions in one day! I've come across posts comparing the two >recorded versions of the books. Mostly it's which narrator does a >better job or using one of the versions to determine pronunciations >of names. I've rejected them as OT, other ideas? Yes, I would mark them OT unless there is a shred of anything interesting, in which case, I'd tend to put them under 'Differences between editions'. Carolyn Who would like to congratulate KathySnow on finding anything civil to say in reply to Lupinlore. I was going to recommend a film version of Tom Brown's Schooldays, which I saw at the weekend. I know he'd have enjoyed Tom's bum being roasted over a fire by Flashman, and another kid being dropped down a well, leading to him dying of a heart attack. Really, JKR is remarkably restrained, as British author's go. From kkearney at students.miami.edu Tue Jan 4 18:34:59 2005 From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum) Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 18:34:59 -0000 Subject: Fortescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just curious... Am I the only one having problems with Kathy's emails? I receive daily digest from this group, and her messages are always cut out due to the formatting. Kathy, would it be possible for you to send your messages in plain text rather than html? -Kelly From willsonkmom at msn.com Tue Jan 4 19:34:23 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (Kathy Willson) Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 14:34:23 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Fortescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "corinthum" Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Fortescue Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 18:34:59 -0000 Size: 2390 URL: From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Tue Jan 4 19:44:32 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 19:44:32 -0000 Subject: Kathy's emails In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have the same problem as Kelly with your emails. I have to copy the text of your original before hitting reply, and then paste it down in order for it to appear here. Just to try Kelly's suggestion, go to 'Edit My Membership' top right of screen and look for the section where it offers you HTML or plain text, and see what yours is set to. Click HTML if it isn't, then save changes at the bottom of the screen. Lets see if it makes a difference. Other than that, I dunno. Carolyn --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Kathy Willson" wrote: > Erm...I don't know, can I? To be honest I don't have the foggiest idea what plain text or html are. I type, I point I l click. I've just learned I'm not supposed to double space after punctuation. Any advice? Kathy From: "corinthum" Just curious... Am I the only one having problems with Kathy's emails? I receive daily digest from this group, and her messages are always cut out due to the formatting. Kathy, would it be possible for you to send your messages in plain text rather than html? -Kelly From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Tue Jan 4 20:10:52 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 20:10:52 -0000 Subject: The Future Mrs Lestrange... Message-ID: Could I just issue a word of warning about coding Florence and Bellatrix prior to OOP... It's difficult to remember now, but there used to be a lot of theories about who Mrs Lestrange was, somewhat memorably summarised by CatLady below [35381]. Because of all this, it is often necessary to decide whether, when they say 'Florence', they really mean Bellatrix. And be careful, Florence can also be Mrs Norris's first name, too. Nearly any female character, whether human or not, can also be having simultaneous affairs with Filch, Snape and Sirius. Oh for the good old days. Someone tell Lupinlore. Carolyn ********************************* I don't think Mrs. Lestrange's first name was Florence, unless JKR had a vicious personal enemy named Florence who gave her all kinds of bad connotations on the name, and I don't think Sirius was involved with the future Mrs. Lestrange (okay, maybe for a quicky, as I'm one of those who consider her Dead(ly) Sexy), but it *could* be that Mrs. Lestrange didn't care about purity of blood and wasn't especially into physical sadism, but simply became addicted to the pursuit of immortality, and believed that a good bit of killing was needed for that goal. If someone kissing Florence behind the greenhouses has to be essential to the plot (and I admit that JKR does drop Clues), and the way in which she must be essential is to explain The Prank, she could have been Sirius's KID SISTER, sneaking around behind Sirius's back with Sirius's enemy Severus. When Sirius heard from Bertha, he would have had words with Sis (he would start by telling her that she's too young and innocent to recognise a Bad Man who intends to harm her, and end up roughly washing her so she can learn the value of cleaniness and not touch anything so GREASY) and fisticuffs with Severus. Then when he soon (days) after ran into Severus trying to get into the Whomping Willow tunnel, they were all primed to have a quarrel in which Sirius became angry enough to tell him which bump to press to quiet the Whomping Willow. From willsonkmom at msn.com Tue Jan 4 20:12:18 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (Kathy Willson) Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 15:12:18 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Kathy's emails Message-ID: Well, my yahoo groups was already html at least for in-coming. I just turned off "rich text" let's see if that has made a difference. I can already read it better. Can't wait till my new glasses get in and I can really see what I've written. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "carolynwhite2" Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Kathy's emails Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 19:44:32 -0000 Size: 3356 URL: From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Tue Jan 4 20:14:46 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 20:14:46 -0000 Subject: Kathy's emails In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Kathy Willson" wrote: > Well, my yahoo groups was already html at least for in-coming. I just > turned off "rich text" let's see if that has made a difference. I can > already read it better. Can't wait till my new glasses get in and I can > really see what I've written. That worked ! Carolyn From willsonkmom at msn.com Tue Jan 4 20:21:00 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (Kathy Willson) Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 15:21:00 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Kathy's emails In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK...that's good, but now I don't have your email text on the page I'm using... Back to Mrs. LeStrange, what's her name, Florence? Are you coding that to predictions or ignoring it? I recall seeing some posts about Mrs. Figg, the next DADA teacher. ( I don't know what I did with those.) Kathy >From: "carolynwhite2" >Reply-To: HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com >To: HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com >Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Kathy's emails >Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 20:14:46 -0000 > -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "carolynwhite2" Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Kathy's emails Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 20:14:46 -0000 Size: 2495 URL: From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Tue Jan 4 21:14:52 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 21:14:52 -0000 Subject: Kathy's emails/Mrs Lestrange In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Kathy Willson" wrote: > OK...that's good, but now I don't have your email text on the page I'm > using... No kidding ? I give up - anyone have a theory? Yours work fine now. > > Back to Mrs. LeStrange, what's her name, Florence? Are you coding that to > predictions or ignoring it? I recall seeing some posts about Mrs. Figg, the > next DADA teacher. ( I don't know what I did with those.) > > Kathy > Oh, no, can't ignore them - these posts are just priceless, and very complex to code. Best to click both Bella and Florence, plus the bevy of other characters and millions of acronyms now in use. All very entertaining. Mrs Figg was another one where it is easy to forget the excitable speculation as to who she really was. Posts that were just short (but wrong) predictions about her teaching DADA I tend to reject, but posts involving Mrs F in all sorts of other weird theories, I tend to keep for posterity. Carolyn From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Wed Jan 5 21:28:41 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 21:28:41 -0000 Subject: TBAY alert.. Message-ID: Just to remind you that we are really entering TBay territory now - see post 35577 - but they are not labelled as such. Please remember to click code 5.4 when you come across these posts. Thanks Carolyn From timregan at microsoft.com Thu Jan 6 11:01:18 2005 From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 11:01:18 -0000 Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] UPDATE, 1st Jan 2005 & Summary for MEG Message-ID: <502C27106D99DB478C13DEDBFD185E150153BAFF@EUR-MSG-12.europe.corp.microsoft.com> Hi All, I passed on the summary to the MEG. Cheers, Tim / Dumbledad. From willsonkmom at msn.com Fri Jan 7 15:09:36 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (Kathy Willson) Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 10:09:36 -0500 Subject: send chocolate Message-ID: Whoa! I just fell into the bay...the T-Bay and the water is very cold! I picked up a hexed portkey (35187) and found myself smack in the middle of a thread about a theory(ies) I've never heard of before {and boy, people used to be very long winded even if it was interesting} I was tossed this way and that trying to understand the little "in-jokes" that were flying around. To make it worse, none of the eariler postsin this thread had been coded yet. And to further complicate the issue, I wasn't sure how the arrivial of OoP would affect all the theories because it was one (or more) of those damned complicated conspiracy theories that I can never really follow..... Potioncat pauses to gasp for air. ...anyway, I used up 27 (twenty-seven) codes and I just realised I forgot T-Bay, so it's really 28. And when I hit the button I got a very funny message that looked like the whole coding event was going away (but it took hold at last) (possibly due to the Muggle curses I was casting at the monitor.) Potioncat looking around at everyone staring at her as if she's mad (crazy) Erm, I just met Elkins. And my question is: Is "Ambush" a long standing theory that will need a code? Got chocolate? Potioncat, going off to make a cup of hot chocloate and to purhcase a life vest for her next trip into T-Bay. From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Fri Jan 7 17:38:29 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:38:29 -0000 Subject: send chocolate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Kathy Willson" wrote: > Whoa! I just fell into the bay...the T-Bay and the water is very cold! > And to further complicate the issue, I wasn't sure how the arrivial of OoP would affect all the theories because it was one (or more) of those damned complicated conspiracy theories that I can never really > follow..... > > Potioncat pauses to gasp for air. > > ...anyway, I used up 27 (twenty-seven) codes and I just realised I forgot T-Bay, so it's really 28. > > Potioncat looking around at everyone staring at her as if she's mad (crazy) > > Erm, I just met Elkins. > > And my question is: Is "Ambush" a long standing theory that will need a code? > > Got chocolate? > > Potioncat, going off to make a cup of hot chocloate and to purhcase a life vest for her next trip into T-Bay. Carolyn (giggling madly): You've never read Elkins before?? Shame on you.. must admit, I'm handing out the post allocations pretty jealously at the moment. The whole lot of them are well out of control, no doubt about it...extremely funny, to be sipped and savoured slowly, concentrating hard, with supplies of medicinal choc and/or alcohol to hand. Personally, I can happily bear with anyone who comes up with lines like this: >>Winter's good, because (a) sickly people tend to die in the wintertime, and (b) the weather in the Potterverse is often driven on the principle of pathetic fallacy, and so there really *ought* to have been a cold hard driving rain when Sirius watched the dementors burying Crouch through the bars of his cell.<< But I thought you did pretty well in the circs. How about adding Imperius, Timing Controversies & Crouch Sr ? By the way, confusingly, I'm not sure this one is TBay in style, really. It is just concentrated theory analysis really, though with fleeting refs to the Bay. But tending that way, I agree. I would strongly recommend that people new to all this nonsense should print out the InishAlley and HypotheticAlley files - all this stuff will make a (little) bit more sense then. Email me if you are not sure where to find them and I'll send you the links. On Ambushes, this is not really a theory but a favoured style of plot development similar to banginess (anyone disagree ??). I had already put in a Bang code, but I have now amended it to read: 1.3.3.5 Bangs and Ambushes Also, does anyone think that SYCOPHANTS should be moved elsewhere than a sub-set of Karkaroff - it is being used pretty loosely now ? If so, where ? By the way, on the Bleeding Hearts stuff, Elkins is using it here as a metaphor for her wildly liberal values, which cause her much anguish within the Potterverse, as you will discover. [Current soppy morality debate going on on main just is nothing compared to her agonies; if only they would read up]. I mention this because it occasionally gets into long RL political comparisons, and there are some codes to pick this up which people might like to use if they seem relevant: 1.4.6 Political stereotypes 3.2.2.1 Political comparisons The arrival of OoP certainly sunk a lot of the ships in Theory Bay - the event is referred to as Hurricane Jo - but that's certainly no reason not to keep the posts; we are talking HPfGU history and posterity here. Also, they are very interwoven, it is hard to reject one theory without damaging a thread of another, and many still float. There has been nothing to disprove LOLLIPOPS, for instance. And, ahem, a lot of us think OoP *proved* MD... Avery/Fourth Man is a bit more difficult. As you saw from this post, there are many options, ranging from an innocent duped to a weak man forced to act. He was in the MoM attack and has now been chucked back into Azkaban, but one of my theories is that he might be acting with Lucius and Rookwood to delay Voldemort's return, and for that reason bravely tried to mislead V about who could pick up the prophecy orbs (for which he was punished). This does not put him on DD's side, far from it, just in Lucius's crowd, who are doing ok without V, thankyou very much. I'd also like to point out that no one has yet accounted for Travers whereabouts. He escaped from Azkaban, but was not in the MoM attack. Along with batty Bella and gormless Goyle, he's the third DE at V's disposal (plus Peter, that enigma..). Carolyn Realising this is the first time she has had the heart to do any theorising since before Christmas. Will you quit snoozing on that sofa, Kneasy, and start winding up up the TOC residents ? From willsonkmom at msn.com Fri Jan 7 18:36:07 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (Kathy Willson) Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 13:36:07 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: send chocolate Message-ID: Well, whatever I did before, to fix my email, means I have to cut and paste to answer my email...So I hope this works out... > Carolyn replied: But I thought you did pretty well in the circs. How about adding Imperius, Timing Controversies & Crouch Sr ? Kathy answers: Done, left in T-Bay out of confusion, but will follow your guidence if it should be removed. C: Also, does anyone think that SYCOPHANTS should be moved elsewhere than a sub-set of Karkaroff - it is being used pretty loosely now ? If so, where ? K: Looking at how it was used in the post, and then looking it up on line, it seems it could go under Death Eaters in general???? Would that make sense? As it was, I just scanned down the list of DEs on the catalogue until I found it. I didn't know what it was, but I was sure it had to do with that group. Printing all that out would make sense. It's about a 3 step evolution for me with my current "borrowed/shared" computer. C: By the way, on the Bleeding Hearts stuff, Elkins is using it here as a metaphor for her wildly liberal values, which cause her much anguish within the Potterverse, as you will discover. [Current soppy morality debate going on on main just is nothing compared to her agonies; if only they would read up]. K: Good, I'm not the only one who can't handle that current thread. Although there are several posters that I like who are participating, I finally convinced myself not to open any more. And I can highly recommend everyone go read post 35193, by one of our own. (I think) I laughed quite a bit and afterward thought about asking for an update...and realized a new version would be bittersweet. Kathy -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "carolynwhite2" Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: send chocolate Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:38:29 -0000 Size: 7146 URL: From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com Fri Jan 7 19:25:51 2005 From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 19:25:51 +0000 Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: send chocolate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Carolyn > Realising this is the first time she has had the heart to do any > theorising since before Christmas. Will you quit snoozing on that > sofa, Kneasy, and start winding up up the TOC residents ? > Sofa? Bloody cheek. I'm up to my armpits reviewing the lab specs for an 800 bed hospital project - and they want them by the day before yesterday. And after that there's a headless chicken panicking about an ultra-microtomy lab. If I work through the weekend I might be able to post something next week. I am not happy. Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 625 bytes Desc: not available URL: From willsonkmom at msn.com Fri Jan 7 19:33:45 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (Kathy Willson) Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 14:33:45 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: send chocolate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >I am not happy. > >Barry Barry's not happy? Then it'll be a humdinger of a post! Kathy ( who really isn't trying to turn this into another HP discussion group. No, I'm not, really.) From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Fri Jan 7 20:59:56 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 20:59:56 -0000 Subject: send chocolate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Kathy Willson" wrote: > > > > > >I am not happy. > > > >Barry > > > Barry's not happy? Then it'll be a humdinger of a post! > > Kathy ( who really isn't trying to turn this into another HP discussion group. No, I'm not, really.) Carolyn: Feel free, post anything you like. Probably as much chance of getting a decent discussion here as anywhere else... And yes, 35193 was v.clever - JKR spinning Sirius a fast one, him not being quite candid either. Thanks, hadn't seen that before [it's from Dicentra]. From willsonkmom at msn.com Sat Jan 8 16:46:30 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (Kathy Willson) Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 11:46:30 -0500 Subject: plot theories Message-ID: Potioncat stumbles in wearing an orange life vest and clutching an industrial grade thermos of something. It must be hot chocolate, judging by the arotmatic steam that issues out when she opens it to take a gulp. She is very damp, but not drenched, and she lacks the look of desparation she had earlier. "Number 35194. Cindy responded to Elkins' post," Potioncat says. "That was a golden age, wasn't it?" (17 or 18 codes) Cindy and Elkins are tossing around different plot theories: such as Neville Has a Memory Charm vrs Neville Has a Reverse Memory Charm. It doesn't look like T-Bay, but I'm not sure how to code them. Nor do I know if I'd code someone else's comment of "I think Neville had a memory performed on him because..." to the same theory. Kathy From stevejjen at earthlink.net Sat Jan 8 17:36:00 2005 From: stevejjen at earthlink.net (Jen Reese) Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 17:36:00 -0000 Subject: Hi all.... Message-ID: Reviewed 900+ posts and 44 pages of category lists last night...I had no idea the scope of this project but hey, count me in. I recognize everyone here, but for anyone who doesn't know me, I've been part of HPFGU since July 2003. My taste in posts varies wildly depending on the day, and for some masochistic reason, I'm drawn to posts that disturb me as often as anything else. You might say it's a case of preparing for the worst ;). Anyway, let me figure out the database thingy Carolyn, and I'll let you know when I'm ready to give it a go! Jen Reese From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Sat Jan 8 18:38:16 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 18:38:16 -0000 Subject: plot theories/welcome to Jen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Kathy Willson" wrote: > Potioncat stumbles in wearing an orange life vest and clutching an > industrial grade thermos of something. It must be hot chocolate, judging by the arotmatic steam that issues out when she opens it to take a gulp. She is very damp, but not drenched, and she lacks the look of desparation she had earlier. Carolyn: You know what, Kathy...you should have a go at TBAY yourself, it sucks people in.. (deep underwater currents though, mind how you go). > > "Number 35194. Cindy responded to Elkins' post," Potioncat says. "That was a golden age, wasn't it?" > Cindy and Elkins are tossing around different plot theories: such as Neville Has a Memory Charm vrs Neville Has a Reverse Memory Charm. It doesn't look like T-Bay, but I'm not sure how to code them. Nor do I know if I'd code someone else's comment of "I think Neville had a memory performed on him because..." to the same theory. > Carolyn: Well, a lot of people truly hated it, so golden age or not is a matter of taste, I suppose. Personally, I love it.. This one has a TBAY beginning, though it doesn't maintain it throughout, but ok to code as such. I thought your codes were fine, but you could add: 3.3.1/3.3.3, Alice & Frank Longbottom, Timing controversies plus memory charms (3.8.4.1). There is no need to worry about coding to theories is they are not actually named in the post. This one was mainly about Avery & the Fourth Man, which you picked up. The Neville/memory theories do have acronyms, but they weren't mentioned by name, so ok to tick 'memory charms' down in section 3 instead. Jen: Reviewed 900+ posts and 44 pages of category lists last night...I had no idea the scope of this project but hey, count me in. I recognize everyone here, but for anyone who doesn't know me, I've been part of HPFGU since July 2003. My taste in posts varies wildly depending on the day, and for some masochistic reason, I'm drawn to posts that disturb me as often as anything else. You might say it's a case of preparing for the worst ;). Anyway, let me figure out the database thingy Carolyn, and I'll let you know when I'm ready to give it a go! Carolyn: Hi...yes, it's a monumental project. We are quite mad, I fear. I do try and warn people beforehand, but nothing prepares for the reality (evil mad cackle, red light shines in her eyes...), er..sorry, where was I? We'll have to draw you out on what posts you find 'disturbing' - could be an interesting discussion. Posts that subvert canon? Or posts that worry that JKR might not be sticking to so-called genre rules? Or some other kind? Do tell. I can think of some posts which disturb me, but mainly because I worry about the authors' grip on reality, ahem. Carolyn Who has just been forced to add a code for her most-disliked TBAY personification, Faith (1.3.1.4). From stevejjen at earthlink.net Sat Jan 8 20:06:10 2005 From: stevejjen at earthlink.net (Jen Reese) Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 20:06:10 -0000 Subject: plot theories/welcome to Jen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Carolyn: > Hi...yes, it's a monumental project. We are quite mad, I fear. I do > try and warn people beforehand, but nothing prepares for the reality > (evil mad cackle, red light shines in her eyes...), er..sorry, where > was I? > > We'll have to draw you out on what posts you find 'disturbing' - > could be an interesting discussion. Posts that subvert canon? Or > posts that worry that JKR might not be sticking to so-called genre > rules? Or some other kind? Do tell. Jen: Ah, but you already know, oh ye of little FAITH. Disturbing as in anything that rocks the foundations of my self-created HP world, as in MD, as in ESE!Lupin, as in Guilty!Dumbledore....as in everything the opposite of you, hehe. But that won't interfere with our working relationship, eh? Carolyn: > I can think of some posts which disturb me, but mainly because I > worry about the authors' grip on reality, ahem. Jen: Oh, those are the best. The stranger the better and if they're funny to boot.... That's why I'm actually looking forward to reading all these posts because my guess is the greater the vacuum, the more fantastic the theories that got generated out of it. With JKR answering questions left and right, there's very little room to move anymore. Ok, Ok, I'm an odd mix of Faith and speculation, can't seem to find my niche. Jen, trying to get up and running before we run out of pre-OOTP posts to read. From annemehr at yahoo.com Sat Jan 8 21:13:06 2005 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr) Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 21:13:06 -0000 Subject: Tangled threads Message-ID: *Enters by doing a flying-tackle hug on Jen Reese* :D Anyway, what with the threads getting so involved, and lots of them broken anyway, I was wondering how much we should try to code consistently through them? For instance, if there is a DE thread in which most of the posts have been coded into "Voldemort's Agenda" among other things, and one comes up that really doesn't call for that coding, are we checking that category anyway to keep the posts of the thread together? Or are we coding each post individually regardless of threading? I used to keep threads together pretty much, until they veered completely off the subject, but I've found trying to do that getting more and more complicated as the list evolves. I was still doing that to a "reasonable" extent, but not being anal about it. *gets ready to plunge back into coding for the first time since before Christmas -- sorry, y'all* Anne From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Sat Jan 8 22:00:14 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 22:00:14 -0000 Subject: welcome to Jen/& Anne post questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Jen Reese" wrote: > > Jen: Ah, but you already know, oh ye of little FAITH. Disturbing as > in anything that rocks the foundations of my self-created HP world, > as in MD, as in ESE!Lupin, as in Guilty!Dumbledore....as in > everything the opposite of you, hehe. > > But that won't interfere with our working relationship, eh? Carolyn: Don't be daft! Wouldn't have invited you otherwise. Besides, I seem to remember we more or less agreed with each other on one thread (about Voldemort's wand, as I recall). Anyway, you've wobbled too much in the posts I've seen. Like the wretched FAITH, unbelievers fascinate you ...tee hee. > > Carolyn: > > I can think of some posts which disturb me, but mainly because I > > worry about the authors' grip on reality, ahem. > > Jen: Oh, those are the best. The stranger the better and if they're > funny to boot.... That's why I'm actually looking forward to reading all these posts because my guess is the greater the vacuum, the more fantastic the theories that got generated out of it. With JKR answering questions left and right, there's very little room to move anymore. Ok, Ok, I'm an odd mix of Faith and speculation, can't seem to find my niche. > > Jen, trying to get up and running before we run out of pre-OOTP > posts to read. Carolyn: Slippery slope you know. These are Very Bad People posting at the moment, you'll get entangled in their coils before you know it. Elkins is particularly seductive - her moral scruples, well, we are talking world-class angst... Right now, they are about as far out from GOF as we presently are from OoP, and you are right, there is everything to play for still. And the odd thing is (don't know if anyone else agrees), there is so much that is still valid. It points up how little OoP answered about backstory. Some stuff about the Black family, really, not much else. The prophecy anyone could guess (and many did, very accurately). Don't worry about running out of posts - we are currently at about Feb 2002, nearly 18 months to go before OoP comes out. Anne: *Enters by doing a flying-tackle hug on Jen Reese* :D Carolyn: Anne and the rest are so grateful to have a *nice* person join the list...these black-hearted conspiracists are a bit tiring... Anne: ..are we checking that category anyway to keep the posts of the thread together? Or are we coding each post individually regardless of threading? I used to keep threads together pretty much, until they veered completely off the subject, but I've found trying to do that getting more and more complicated as the list evolves. I was still doing that to a "reasonable" extent, but not being anal about it. Carolyn: It is getting difficult. I try and remember what I did on previous similar threads and try and include a consistent category. A useful rule of thumb is 'what would I expect to find under this heading?'.. Anne: *gets ready to plunge back into coding for the first time since before Christmas -- sorry, y'all* Carolyn: [reviewing cattle-prod collection and other instruments of medieval torture brought back from Italy]..hm, was just going to come after you... From dk59us at yahoo.com Sat Jan 8 22:40:56 2005 From: dk59us at yahoo.com (Eustace_Scrubb) Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 22:40:56 -0000 Subject: Other Fantasy series/Use of List/Medieval Italian Torture Devices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carolyn: > I was a fully-paid up Tolkie in my teens as well, but sadly it has > lost its magic for me. I re-read it about a year ago after a gap of > about 20 years, and the boys-own aspect of the story really irritated > me, never having been much good at the handmaiden bit. Similarly for > Narnia. Once I found out the religious gunk I was being fed, I'm > afraid I threw them away. I just looked for 'The King of Elfland's > Daughter' on the shelf, and found a bookmark halfway through it from > a few year's back. Ah well.. > > However, E.R.Eddison (The Worm Ouroboros etc) has survived the > years..and I love a new author, Eoin Colfer (Artemis Fowl series). > Jury is currently out on the Potterverse. Doug: Well, I read _The King of Elfland's Daughter_...it wasn't a life-changing experience or anything, though. The Morris stuff is more interesting, but that may be because it was one small aspect of an amazingly diverse career. Never read Eddison, though I probably should. And for some reason I missed Susan Cooper's The Dark is Rising sequence when I was a teen...which was just when most of that series was being published. I read it last year, I think based on a recommendation from HPfGU. I like some aspects of it, though she never really conveys a sense that the "Dark" actually have a chance to triumph--and therefore Will Stanton and the other heroes never seem to be in genuine danger. And if anyone has trouble with Time Turning, well, let's just say that time travel is crucial to the series. Carolyn: > As a relative newbie, be curious to know how you have used the HPfGU > site - have you explored the archives much ? Are the old theories of > interest, did you spend a lot of time reading up?? Doug: Well, I can't say I have an encyclopedic knowledge of the TBAY and other "old theories" (is that sort of like "ancient magic"?). I mostly read HPfGU to see what other folks were thinking about in the series. I _tried_ to explore the Archives (I am on the various archives lists too), but like so many others, I ended up cursing under my breath trying to find things. When someone who actually keeps track of at least their own posts (Geoff Bannister, e.g.) referenced an older discussion, I usually went and had a look. That's really why I'm interested in this project. Speaking of which...I've muddled through my next 50 posts and wanted to report that ASAP (apprehensively eyeing the various medieval Italian torture devices strapped to Carolyn's jetski as it it skips away from the yawing Coast Guard cutter towards the beach full of unsuspecting catalogers). So take a look and hand me some more...wading into the TBAY will probably be better than trying to decide whether to read more posts about Marietta's betrayal (I wonder if Marietta is any relation to Florence?) I missed Abba, but now I'm going to watch either the end of the Fawlty Towers marathon on BBC America _or_ the NFL playoffs! Cheers, Doug Kendall From annemehr at yahoo.com Sat Jan 8 23:41:57 2005 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr) Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 23:41:57 -0000 Subject: Other Fantasy series/Use of List/Medieval Italian Torture Devices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Eustace_Scrubb" wrote: > I missed Abba, but now I'm going to watch either the end of the Fawlty > Towers marathon on BBC America _or_ the NFL playoffs! > > Cheers, > > Doug Kendall Since I won't pay for digital cable, I don't *have* BBC America. *fume* Geez, the Beeb is only one of the biggest English-language networks in the WORLD, you'd think we'd get in on our cable... -- Italian torture devices, Carolyn? Can I see? Can I...? Oh, all *right,* I'll get coding again... Anne picturing the "rack," and the "comfy chair"... From dk59us at yahoo.com Sun Jan 9 01:53:53 2005 From: dk59us at yahoo.com (Eustace_Scrubb) Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 01:53:53 -0000 Subject: Our chief weapon is fear..and surprise(was re: Medieval Italian Torture Device In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Anne fumed: > > Since I won't pay for digital cable, I don't *have* BBC America. >*fume* > Geez, the Beeb is only one of the biggest English-language networks in > the WORLD, you'd think we'd get in on our cable... > > -- Italian torture devices, Carolyn? Can I see? Can I...? > > Oh, all *right,* I'll get coding again... > > Anne > picturing the "rack," and the "comfy chair"... Doug: I won't pay for digital cable, either...but Time Warner just added BBC to "Standard Cable" here, so I won't complain (of course they simultaneously raised the rate for aforesaid Standard Cable). Now if only they'd add Wizarding Wireless... Cheers, Doug From elfundeb at comcast.net Sun Jan 9 02:19:55 2005 From: elfundeb at comcast.net (Debbie) Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 02:19:55 -0000 Subject: send chocolate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Kathy Willson" wrote: > I picked up a hexed portkey (35187) and found myself smack in the middle of > a thread about a theory(ies) I've never heard of before {and boy, people > used to be very long winded even if it was interesting} I was tossed this > way and that trying to understand the little "in-jokes" that were flying > around. To make it worse, none of the eariler postsin this thread had been > coded yet. And to further complicate the issue, I wasn't sure how the > arrivial of OoP would affect all the theories because it was one (or more) > of those damned complicated conspiracy theories that I can never really > follow..... ::intense feelings of deja vu:: This brings back memories of those days, when I was a new member still trying to figure out how to use Yahoo. I'd come home from work and log on after putting the kids to bed and find enormous numbers of very long posts espousing ever-wilder theories, citing canon I could not recall. As it took forever for each post to load on my antiquated dial-up connection (I had not discovered "expand messages" or realized I could receive the list via email), I simply gave up trying to read them. Mostly I remember feelings of amazement at their ability to call up obscure facts from canon and even more at the time they must have spent on these long posts. How could a working girl even hope to keep up? Geez, it took me 20 minutes just to load and read *one* of these posts. Realizing that I needed a better grasp of canon to play with this crowd, I opted for a careful reread of the books and a promise to revisit these posts at a later date. I finally got smart and *printed* all of Elkins' posts because they were impossible to digest on a quick online scan. > And my question is: Is "Ambush" a long standing theory that will need a > code? Wasn't that a Snapetheory? Something about Snape being required to ambush some DEs to prove his loyalty to Dumbledore? > Got chocolate? > > Potioncat, going off to make a cup of hot chocloate and to purhcase a life > vest for her next trip into T-Bay. ::makes note to owl Kathy some chocolate; dark or milk chocolate?:: Carolyn: > Who has just been forced to add a code for her most-disliked TBAY > personification, Faith (1.3.1.4). Ah, ye of little FAITH! FAITH is a sweet denizen of the Bay, whom I love dearly, and regularly trot out to defend against such nefarious theories as ESE!Lupin, though she can be an uncomfortable escort when I start spinning bloody theories about what happened at the Longbottoms. Debbie who wonders just what constitutes MD these days, as she remembers it as a theory about a flawed potion From annemehr at yahoo.com Sun Jan 9 03:41:29 2005 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr) Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 03:41:29 -0000 Subject: Our chief weapon is fear..and surprise(was re: Medieval Italian Torture Devi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Now if only they'd add Wizarding Wireless... > > Cheers, > > Doug That would be Sirius satellite radio. They only *say* it's from a satellite for the Muggles' sake; really, it comes direct from the Dog Star... Anne From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Sun Jan 9 19:10:07 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 19:10:07 -0000 Subject: UPDATE, Sunday 9th January Message-ID: PROGRESS To date we have coded, or allocated for coding 44015 posts. We have actually coded 41997 posts, and rejected 23537 of these (56%). We have reached post number 36200 on the main list, and this week, with 10 people coding, we managed 1332 posts. CODING ERRORS Can people investigate the reject status on the following: Boyd: 24714 Eva: 29280, 29273, 29277, 29256 (from last week, not new ones) Laurasia: 33186 Debbie: 32910 Kelly K: 33533 GROUP MEMBERS Very pleased to welcome three new people to the group: Jen Reese, Dot (Dungrollin) and Petra (aka PenapartElf). NB. Petra runs the chapter summaries/questions project for Admin, and is interested in what we have been filing away under the chapter headings so far. TECHNOSTUFF Paul has resurfaced today and informs me: <> So there you have it! The connection is indeed a nightmare; hopefully for not much longer. Paul: Jen, Dot and Petra will be most likely visiting your firewall sometime soon, if you could look out for them. NEW CATEGORIES 1.3.1.4 Faith 1.3.3.5 Bangs & Ambushes 2.2.1.6 Cupid's Snitch 2.2.8.2 Too EWW & variants 2.4.1.0 Harry's eyes 2.10.5.2 Sycophants 2.11.21 Florean Fortescue 3.16.1.3 Library <> What ???! Detention for you.... From stevejjen at earthlink.net Mon Jan 10 03:54:17 2005 From: stevejjen at earthlink.net (Jen Reese) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 03:54:17 -0000 Subject: Category definition updates--Questions (Re: UPDATE, Sunday 9th January) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm updating my printout of the Category definitions back to Nov. 10th, and found the Dec. 19th update confusing. Here's the link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Catalogue/message/892 Either I'm missing something because I haven't accessed the Catalogue yet or we have a couple of categories with the same numbers: 1.4.6 Political stereotypes and 1.4.6 Family Dynamics 2.17.4 Sex in the WW and 2.17.4 OBHWF (One big happy Weasley family) LOL! Also, are the new Snape codes meant to replace the acronyms, like replacing BELA LUGOSI with Vampire!Snape? ***************************************************************** Finally, in the update on Dec. 5th: 1.5.12.3 Twelve (update) and 1.5.12.3 Thirteen (current code) Looks like the code should be 1.5.12.4 for Twelve? Jen, already hassling the Admin after one day on the job... From elfundeb at comcast.net Mon Jan 10 04:53:33 2005 From: elfundeb at comcast.net (Debbie) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 04:53:33 -0000 Subject: UPDATE, Sunday 9th January In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "carolynwhite2" wrote: > < who wonders just what constitutes MD these days, as she remembers it > as a theory about a flawed potion>> > > What ???! Detention for you.... No detention, please! I didn't imagine the flawed potion debate. I offer you the following -- >From post #39662 (Pip's original Spying Game post): > Misinformation includes letting known enemy agents escape because > they either have a weakness you will later be able to use or because > they have been given false information. One of the main subjects of > this post will be the idea that Dumbledore and Snape intended Peter > Pettigrew to escape back to Voldemort. > >From #39705: Pip: > I believe Pettigrew was 'allowed' to make contact with Voldemort, and > Voldemort was 'allowed' to return to his father's old home. > Dumbledore, IMO, took every effort to make sure Voldemort didn't > resurrect *until* Dumbledore had some control over the circumstances. > > The spell Voldemort uses requires a servant's flesh and an enemy's > blood, which are both rather widely available. It also requires the > bone of Voldemort's father, which is much more limited in supply and > could have been destroyed. The fact that it wasn't suggests that > Dumbledore was deliberately trying to make sure Voldemort only had > one resurrection option open to him. > > Once you realise that Voldemort has used Harry for the enemy (pretty > easy guess that he might well do that, especially after you've fed > Voldemort-via-Harry all that guff about his mother's protection in > his blood), a servant Dumbledore effectively provided, and has not > been prevented from obtaining his father's body then you really, > really start to wonder about that potion. >From #39711: Pip: > >> And what did Voldemort use to create a new body? Which area is the > >> one where Dumbledore is most likely to receive superb advice on how > >> to create built-in problems? What subject is Snape most expert in? > >> Potions. Marina: > >Okay, I'm confused now. Are you arguing that the Dumbledore and Snape > >manipulated events at the end of PoA in order to ensure that Voldemort > >uses Harry's blood to resurrect himself, thus becoming potentially > >vulnerable? But there's no indication of a connection between the > >events in the Shrieking Shack and Voldemort's choice of ressurection > >spells. They're two unrelated variables. If Wormtail hadn't escaped, > >Voldemort would've either used someone else to cast the same spell, or > >he wouldn't have been resurrected at all. Eloise: > There's no indication of a connection, sure. > But....I do find it interesting that he's resurrected via a *potion*. And I > do wonder if Voldemort, believing Snape still loyal to himself, sent Wormtail > to him for advice. And naturally Snape, now being on the side of right, > engineered, along with Dumbledore for there to be a fatal flaw (hence the > gleam of triumph, when Dumbledore realised the plot had succeeded). Ok, I'd forgotten that it wasn't part of the original post, but there was definitely a flawed potion involved. *Before* it involved a magic dishwasher. Debbie From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Mon Jan 10 12:32:52 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 12:32:52 -0000 Subject: MD detention looms/updating definitions list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Debbie" wrote: > No detention, please! I didn't imagine the flawed potion debate. I offer you the following -- > Ok, I'd forgotten that it wasn't part of the original post, but > there was definitely a flawed potion involved. *Before* it involved a magic dishwasher. > Carolyn (currently writing a Theory exam syllabus for List Elves): Huh. Flawed potion is indeed a very important thread within MD, and explained in mind-boggling depth as part of Spying Games I & II - but is only one of a great many complex propositions within the theory. BTW, for those struggling with what any of this has to do with kitchen appliances (answer, not a lot), see posts 39823 and 39854. The coding up of MD is going to need massive concentration on everyone's part. The huge number of diverse threads, and hundreds of posts related to it are a real challenge, but very important to hold together. IMNVHO it is one of the best things on HPfGU, though we are still waiting for further updates ::peers hopefully into the members' list, but decides against prodding Pip:: As it is, some us (eh, Kelly ?/me guilty of this too..) have acquired a habit of handing out MD to unsuspecting enquirers wondering if there is a bit more to the plot than meets the eye . Jen: I'm updating my printout of the Category definitions back to Nov. 10th, and found the Dec. 19th update confusing. Also, are the new Snape codes meant to replace the acronyms, like replacing BELA LUGOSI with Vampire!Snape? Finally, in the update on Dec. 5th: Jen, already hassling the Admin after one day on the job... Carolyn: Not a problem Jen, great that anyone takes this amount of interest in my lists. The reason for these anomalies is that the hard copy of the catalogue in our files is not fully up to date at present with some quite big numbering changes I have made recently on the category list online. I reconcile the two of them from time to time, and I will try and bring the definitions list back up to date this weekend, sorry for any confusion caused. I assure you that there is no duplication of numbers in reality. Re the Snape sub-heads, the answer is no, they don't replace. They were just providing group headings for some of the myriad Snape theories. It also enables you tick something like 'Snape & love' when the post is about that, but doesn't refer to eg LOLLIPOPS specifically. A policy decision we should make is whether we should also tick the main head 'Snape' as well every time. We are pursuing a policy of only ticking the acronym if the theory is actually mentioned by name in the post, or if the post is a very detailed discussion of/response to a specific theory but carelessly just doesn't happen to mention the name. That way you don't actually have to try and remember the fine print of what every theory is about, fortunately. Besides, it would be a nightmare, as they overlap, diverge and duplicate so much, as you may know . Carolyn From willsonkmom at msn.com Mon Jan 10 15:01:38 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (Kathy Willson) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 10:01:38 -0500 Subject: questions Message-ID: How is it I went from reviewing things like "who is your favorite character?" or "Ship Mad-eye Moody---Hermione" to things like this: (35208, Marina) See, there's cruelty and there's cruelty. A predilection for reducing people to quivering globs of jelly through dark threats, deadly insults and viciously clever mind games is not the same as a predilection for reducing people to quivering globs of jelly through pulling their intestines out through their left nostril. Snape goes for the first, while Voldy and most of the DEs lean toward the second. Most people don't bother to make the distinction though, and I suspect that young Severus himself didn't bother, which is why he signed up at the DE membership drive, blithely assuming that torturing the occassional helpless muggle would be as much fun as goading Sirius Black into a temper tantrum during breakfast in the Great Hall. Just assigned one post 31 codes! (and I most likely missed one or two) question 1: I couldn't find "Serpensortia" in the codes. Should it be added? question 2: Do I code for T-Bay accronyms if they seem to be more fluff than discussion. "Waving from the good ship LOLLIPOPS..." and such. question 3: Just where can I find the Draught of Dreamless Sleep? And with a nod toward Rickman!Snape, take a look at "Closet Land" sometime, for some real torture. (And the real reason I have doubts about canon!Snape.) Kathy From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Mon Jan 10 16:11:44 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 16:11:44 -0000 Subject: questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Kathy Willson" wrote: > How is it I went from reviewing things like "who is your favorite > character?" or "Ship Mad-eye Moody---Hermione" to things like this: Carolyn: Just the mental gym that is HPfGU ... > question 1: I couldn't find "Serpensortia" in the codes. Should it be added? A: If you like, I'll put it in. It does come up for discussion. > > question 2: Do I code for T-Bay accronyms if they seem to be more fluff than discussion. "Waving from the good ship LOLLIPOPS..." and such. A: No, I'd ignore it in these cases. > > question 3: Just where can I find the Draught of Dreamless Sleep? A: wouldn't we all like to know. Do we need a separate category, or wouldn't 3.8.4 'spells, potions & incantations' not do? > > And with a nod toward Rickman!Snape, take a look at "Closet Land" sometime, for some real torture. (And the real reason I have doubts about canon!Snape.) I haven't seen this movie, but it looks thought-provoking [I found the review below on an Internet site, sorry, lost the URL]. Are you saying that it's just not remotely ok to find Snape acceptable, when you see a film like this, which shows what it might actually be like to be on the receiving end of his particular brand of nastiness? Or are you making a comment about what JKR might be trying to show with the books? And what is the message in that case if he does go and save Harry in the end ? Can such monsters also do good? How would FAITH come to terms with that? My immediate thought, only having read this review, was that the film could also be seen as a comment about the many furious rows about the HP series and what JKR thought she was up to. The analogy would appear intended. Carolyn REVIEW: The Plot: A children's bookwriter (Madeleine Stowe) has been abducted and subjected to torture by a nameless interrogator (Alan Rickman). She strongly protests her innocence as the interrogator tries to get her to admit to conveying political messages in her books which are in collusion with conspirators trying to bring the government down. Comment: This film was made in response to a comment in a report made by Amnesty International in 1990, that over the the world's countries still torture their own citizens. Needless to say, this is an uncomfortable and unpleasant film to watch as Stowe is tortured in an attempt to make her confess to something she clearly isn't. It ultimately becomes a test of wills between torturer's desire to break the victim and get her to admit to her underlying political intent, and the victim's strength of her convictions that she is innocent and will not confess to something she is not. The stark but modern room where the interrogations take place all adds to the evil atmosphere (although one imagines a true 'torture chamber' would be less artistic...). Alan Rickman is truly disturbing as the nameless interrogator. Despite the films dark content, this is obviously the type of role Rickman can excel in. For his victim, he is not one person, but three, and he plays all three against eachother with menacing intent. He slips effortlessly from one character to the next (watch for the scene 50 minutes into the film where he blindfolds Stowe and plays both a victim and torturer himself! Magnificent!), playing not only for the benefit of the victim but us, the unseen audience whose hearts go out to the victim as she is terrorized first psychologically and then physically... The victim is played with conviction by Madeleine Stowe. No matter what horrors are inflicted upon her by her interrogator, she quietly exhibits the strength to hang on to her belief in her innocence. As the interrogation continues, Stowe stoically delivers dignified strength and vulnerability as more and more of her identity is stripped away from her character. It is a fascinating thing to watch. Not for the faint hearted is Closet Land; the psychological terror will no doubt affect some viewers of this film. Whether the situation is true or not, Closet Land is an interesting and disturbing drama. But, it you want the same scenario jazzed up 10 years later, with us against the nameless "They,' then I recommend the film, Cube, over this one... From willsonkmom at msn.com Mon Jan 10 17:10:22 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (Kathy Willson) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 12:10:22 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carolyn answered: >question 3: Just where can I find the Draught of Dreamless Sleep? A: wouldn't we all like to know. Do we need a separate category, or wouldn't 3.8.4 'spells, potions & incantations' not do? Kathy says: Oops. I meant for myself to drink, after reading about having intestines pulled out of left nostril. Well, Carolyn, you wrote a very thought provoking answer to my question about "Closet Land", which, as you show in the review has some parallels to the HP series. I've actually only seen a short (10 or 15 min) clip from the movie and I knew much less about the plot. My rather flip question was from a much more shallow view point, (I hate to admit) that if Rickman can do such a blood chilling performance in this sort of role, what's he going to be up to as Snape? (Sorry, fired the wrong cannon while trying to get clues.) Kathy -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "carolynwhite2" Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: questions Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 16:11:44 -0000 Size: 6900 URL: From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Mon Jan 10 23:17:48 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 23:17:48 -0000 Subject: Updated definitions file Message-ID: I have just brought the text file containing the definitions in line with what is currently on the catalogue site. (See new doc in files section dated 10th Jan). I discovered it was much more out of date than I thought - sorry about that. The only real change people should note is that I have put the two Comic Relief books - Quidditch Through the Ages and Fantastic Beasts after the Books 1-7 rather than leaving them lost in the other sections (something Anne asked for ages ago) - now 1.15 and 1.16. I have also started a new section ready for HBP (1.13), and, alas for Book 7 (1.14). These are not for predictions, but for the actual books when we have them. The End is nearly in sight :( Carolyn From kkearney at students.miami.edu Tue Jan 11 13:57:14 2005 From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 13:57:14 -0000 Subject: UPDATE, Sunday 9th January In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carolyn wrote: > Boyd: 24714 > Eva: 29280, 29273, 29277, 29256 (from last week, not new ones) > Laurasia: 33186 > Debbie: 32910 > Kelly K: 33533 I'm out of town this week, but I'll take a look at that one when I get back. -Kelly From willsonkmom at msn.com Wed Jan 12 14:14:02 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:14:02 -0000 Subject: FLIRTIAC Message-ID: I finished my last set...at last...and I am dead serious, the last post was "Who is your favorite non-Magical character?" What a range of posts were in this batch!! I came across FLIRTIAC but didn't see a heading for it in the codes. Coded to all the appropriate characters but had the feeling from the post that it didn't catch on. Does it need a code number? Send more. Kathy From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 14:57:59 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:57:59 -0000 Subject: FLIRTIAC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" wrote: > > I finished my last set...at last...and I am dead serious, the last > post was "Who is your favorite non-Magical character?" What a range > of posts were in this batch!! > > I came across FLIRTIAC but didn't see a heading for it in the > codes. Coded to all the appropriate characters but had the feeling > from the post that it didn't catch on. Does it need a code number? > > Send more. > Kathy Hi Kathy A perennial bore of a topic...hope you whacked that reject button. FLIRTIAC is a Mrs Norris theory - Filch's wife transfigured for ever until he learns magic..all very tragic, as you can imagine. A popular one, with many variations - as you will see if you click on 'p' next to the acronym. Here's another batch: 36451-36550. Carolyn From willsonkmom at msn.com Wed Jan 12 15:56:43 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:56:43 -0000 Subject: FLIRTIAC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Hi Kathy > > A perennial bore of a topic...hope you whacked that reject button. So hard I nearly broke the keyboard! > > FLIRTIAC is a Mrs Norris theory Well no wonder I couldn't find it! Never mind where I was looking. I have the same problem with my glasses. > Here's another batch: 36451-36550. > OK, I'll start as soon as I find my glasses...here kitty, kitty Kathy From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Wed Jan 12 21:47:09 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 21:47:09 -0000 Subject: A crisis of nerves... Message-ID: The beginning of Elkins' historic defence of Avery [34811] ..priceless. Now, I do realize that to many people all Grovelling Coward types look exactly alike, but I assure you that we members of S.Y.C.O.P.H.A.N.T.S recognize a great range of diversity within our ranks, and while such distinctions may seem insignificant to others, they matter a great deal to *us.* So. Avery is *not* a toady. *Nott* is a "Toady." What Avery is is a "Nerveless Hysteric." When you obsequiously declare yourself to be prostrating yourself at someone's feet -- while all the while remaining in a steadfastly upright position -- *that* is being a Toady. When you *literally* prostrate yourself at someone's feet, while simultaneously shrieking for forgiveness at the top of your lungs and shaking so violently that even a tightly-bound fourteen-year-old boy with some rather serious problems of his own to contend with can still detect the motion from all the way across a darkened graveyard, on the other hand... Well, that's not "toadying," precisely. That's...er... That's what we here in S.Y.C.O.P.H.A.N.T.S. prefer to refer to as a "crisis of nerves." From sevenhundredandthirteen at yahoo.com Thu Jan 13 11:36:01 2005 From: sevenhundredandthirteen at yahoo.com (sevenhundredandthirteen) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 11:36:01 -0000 Subject: Naked Wizards Message-ID: In a serious thread pondering whether animagi retain their clothes when they transform, Mike Gray adds a bit of humour: >>>> 36260 Actually, Animagi *never* wear clothing: the most difficult part of becoming one is not the (relatively simple) transformation into an animal form but the skull drudgery involved in creating the illusion of clothing on an otherwise naked wizard. This also explains why so few animagi are registerd. The magic involved requires extensive coaching, which, it would seem, Hogwarts staff give with generosity, enthusiasm - and blackmail. Hence, only the cleverest students are able to register. BTW, it should be noted that the evanscent 70s phenomenon of "streaking" was due to large numbers of rebellious young wizards who figured they could learn the technique on their own ... Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) <<<<< ~<(Laurasia)>~ From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Thu Jan 13 12:42:42 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 12:42:42 -0000 Subject: Coding policy/ some Q&A.. Message-ID: Dot posed me some good questions this morning, and with her permission I am re-posting the Q&A as I thought other people might be interested as well. PS Loved the naked wizards, Laurasia! And BTW, I got the Avery post number wrong a few posts back - it was 34911, not 34811...sorry. ******************************************* Dot: My first thread confused me a little (36401, All things green), it's a list of references to the word `green', canon quoted, but not discussed, and though there are a lot of posts the list is far from exhaustive. I coded it simply as `green', but having gone through to the end of the thread there's absolutely no discussion at all, so I'm now tempted to reject the lot, what should I do? Carolyn: This is a LOON-type thread, a listing of all mentions of 'green' in the first four books. (LOON = League of Obsessed Nitpickers..). Although there is no discussion, I would keep it on a 'for-the-record- basis, because I know this is just the kind of the thing people like to look up, and who knows, it may eventually be relevant to some future plot development. In past coding, I have also kept various long lists of biblical references, vampire-references and so on for the same reason. Dot: Secondly ? how do you deal in general with threads that start before the batch of posts you're looking at, and/or end after? For example there's part of a discussion on how Hogwarts pays for itself which is interesting, but the more interesting and well-thought-out posts are later on, after the batch that I'm looking at. Should I reject the two that come within my remit on the basis that there's little canon in them and better stuff which repeats those arguments later on, and write notes at the bottom in the hope that whoever gets those posts checks to see why I excluded them? Carolyn: This depends on how much time you want to spend on it. It is great to look up and down thread, but sometimes those threads are very long. After you have done quite a bit of coding, I find a compromise approach usually evolves. There are themes which come up a lot and you are personally quite *certain* that you have saved numerous, and possibly better posts on a particular subject. This prompts you to hit that reject button rather tartly. OTOH, if it feels like a newish topic or at least an original or newish take on an old topic and you have landed in the middle of it, then yes, it is worth taking a bit of time to check up thread, particularly if there are big-hitter posters engaged in one of their entertaining debates. Best to keep the thread in it's entirety then - although, even so, exclude 'I agree' or really silly OT/adds totally nothing new posts. Hard to legislate... On balance, I would err in favour of saving rather than rejecting if you can't decide. We will be going through a second-edit stage, and can reject unnecessary duplication then, if we wish. Dot: Thirdly, how much coding is enough? Should every character that is mentioned in the post be checked? Every theory acronym? Or only those that are significantly discussed? Carolyn: I try to go for elegant minimalism, to capture the essence of the thread. However, that said, yes, every acronym mentioned should be ticked (unless it is just a passing wave from one dinghy to another), and the key characters mentioned. For example, if the thread discusses Snape's teaching style, I would not necessarily tick Harry, Neville and so on, unless there was a lot of talk about how they felt about it. But on the big theory threads we are now encountering, it is really not uncommon to be ticking 20-30 categories sometimes. Dot: Fourthly, multiple posts where some parts are FAQ/adds nothing new, but other parts are worthy of coding - should only the interesting bits be coded, or should the whole post (including the uniteresting bits) get codes too? For example post 36422 is a TBAY summary for newbies of a lot of theories that were washing around at the time - there's a lot that's not new at all. However, there are a couple of short responses to posts hidden in there, so what should get coded? (I ended up coding the lot as it's quite a nice introduction, but I don't know if that's right.) Carolyn: Oo..nice post that, very useful. A post like this I would tick everything relevant in sight. The problem comes on multi-posts like CatLady's where some things should be coded, others are potentially reject candidates, but you can't mix reject and non-reject codes in the same post, so you end up just coding some of it. Eventually, the way we plan to deal with multi-posts is to have the parts relevant to codes highlighted when people do a search and retrieve on the catalogue, so the non-relevant parts don't stand out. So, the short answer is, if a post has even only one small part that is worth keeping, code that and ignore the rest. Dot: Fifthly, I'm worried about how many posts I should be rejecting (I want to reject more). Where there's a small paragraph with a question that is repeated in the replies I'm rejecting them. But then there's (for example) post 36430 has a paragraph about Rita Skeeter (which I'd count as 'adds nothing new' in the context of the thread) but then some speculation about Harry being a snake animagus, which we now know is not possible as JKR said none of the trio will be animagi. Should that go under 'mistakes/perpetrating mistakes'? Carolyn: Yes, I'd like to keep our reject rate as high as possible, consistent with fairness. It has now slipped down to 56% from our initial high of 70%, alas. Rejecting initial questions that get repeated later in replies is good, and you should always do this if possible. What constitutes a 'mistake' is a tricky one, however. You may have seen earlier discussion on the catalogue site as to whether we should now reject all previous posts about the Weasley's ages, as JKR has now 'confirmed' them on her site (allegedly). We decided not to do that, on the grounds that this would remove too many posts that should be kept for posterity (the Florence/Bellatrix confusion is another example). The example you quote is also difficult [36430], as although the trio are not going to be animagi, apparently, it is speculating in a general way as to what might happen if a person in animagi form got killed or eaten by an animal. I would therefore keep this one and code to animagi, and probably also Rita Skeeter and Hermione. Probably no one should remind the protagonists on the current Marietta thread as to this further instance of Hermione's moral dubiousness ! From quigonginger at yahoo.com Thu Jan 13 12:52:22 2005 From: quigonginger at yahoo.com (quigonginger) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 12:52:22 -0000 Subject: Greetings and a question Message-ID: I suppose I ought to introduce myself to any who don't know me. I am Ginger, yeah, the one who writes the corny filks. I have only catalogued 50 posts so far as I had a project to finish (see the Harry Potter Filks site-index). Then my computer died and I had to get a new one. I am now ready to start cataloguing in earnest. So on to the question: Is there a spot for the Foe Glass? I have started my next set, and it is about that. I hope I didn't overlook it and am now making an idiot out of myself my first time posting publicly. I'll hold off on that thread until I know what to do with it. I did the first one in my set (35751), but I'll wait on the rest. BTW, saying "Here, Kitty" does help find one's glasses. I tried it. Smiles, Ginger From spotthedungbeetle at hotmail.com Thu Jan 13 13:19:49 2005 From: spotthedungbeetle at hotmail.com (dungrollin) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:19:49 -0000 Subject: Greetings Message-ID: Oh yes, greetings all. I'm Dungrollin on the main list (though I'll be Dot here), and I'm still rather new. Quite awed by the scale of this project, and not a little nervous about how useful I'm going to be. But I shall do my best, and probably ask lots of painfully obvious questions. Dot (Who dropped her recently acquired second copy of GoF in the bath this morning.) From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Thu Jan 13 13:22:07 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:22:07 -0000 Subject: Foe glass In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "quigonginger" wrote: > > So on to the question: Is there a spot for the Foe Glass? I have > started my next set, and it is about that. I hope I didn't overlook it and am now making an idiot out of myself my first time posting publicly. > Hi Ginger No, you didn't overlook it, but I would use 3.9.3 Dark Detectors for now, unless we feel the need to add a new sub category there - as we did for Sneakoscope. Carolyn Apologies, not a FILKer, my bad.. From willsonkmom at msn.com Thu Jan 13 13:32:44 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (Kathy Willson) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:32:44 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Greetings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Dot! All your questions that Carolyn posted were very good, (several had me whispering,"oh good, I'm glad she asked that.") (Except for the one that caused me to have to go back and re-code...) Now I have a question...Did the book begin to recite a poem about someone taking what you'd sorely miss? Kathy (Potioncat) >From: "dungrollin" >Reply-To: HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com >To: HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com >Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Greetings >Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:19:49 -0000 > -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "dungrollin" Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Greetings Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:19:49 -0000 Size: 2454 URL: From spotthedungbeetle at hotmail.com Thu Jan 13 14:21:24 2005 From: spotthedungbeetle at hotmail.com (dungrollin) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 14:21:24 -0000 Subject: Greetings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No, I don't think it was feeling very poetic, it just let fly a volley of abuse, questioning my ability to perform two (even very simple) activities at the same time. I told it in no uncertain terms that if it tried flinging itself into any other non-bookshelf related medium I would have it summarily shot, and go back to using my hardback copy. Upon which it replied that I should curse the day that I was born, and go play in some traffic. I think I'll put off the idea of balancing the laptop on the soap- rack. Dot --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Kathy Willson" wrote: > Hi Dot! > All your questions that Carolyn posted were very good, (several had me > whispering,"oh good, I'm glad she asked that.") (Except for the one that > caused me to have to go back and re-code...) > > Now I have a question...Did the book begin to recite a poem about someone > taking what you'd sorely miss? > > Kathy (Potioncat) > > >From: "dungrollin" > >Reply-To: HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com > >To: HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com > >Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Greetings > >Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:19:49 -0000 > > From annemehr at yahoo.com Thu Jan 13 20:45:49 2005 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 20:45:49 -0000 Subject: Greetings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "dungrollin" wrote: > > Oh yes, greetings all. > > I'm Dungrollin on the main list (though I'll be Dot here), and I'm > still rather new. Quite awed by the scale of this project, and not > a little nervous about how useful I'm going to be. But I shall do > my best, and probably ask lots of painfully obvious questions. > > Dot > (Who dropped her recently acquired second copy of GoF in the bath > this morning.) Dropping your GoF was probably symptomatic of your apprehension over being roped into this project -- we just toss you in the deep end and let you sink or swim. Anne hates baths; takes showers From stevejjen at earthlink.net Fri Jan 14 05:42:57 2005 From: stevejjen at earthlink.net (Jen Reese) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 05:42:57 -0000 Subject: Greetings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Anne: > Dropping your GoF was probably symptomatic of your apprehension over > being roped into this project -- we just toss you in the deep end and > let you sink or swim. > > Anne > hates baths; takes showers I would laugh except it's TRUE! I just finished my first 100 posts and...it's harder than I expected. Oh, the reject button is easy enough to hit because you can assume after 36,000 posts that the origin of the name Weasley has been thoroughly discussed, as well as the possibilities for Hogwart's tuition or lack thereof. But then you hit a post, medium length with a few good points that may or may not be new--you're a little unsure even after following the thread a few posts in each direction. Then, say, there's a canon error, but only because the post came pre-OOTP, and it's really a fairly minor point. What to do? Jen, waving a welcome to Dot and idly watching the printer churn out 40 pages of Acronyms from Inish Alley. P.S. Bath and shower person, depending on the day. From quigonginger at yahoo.com Fri Jan 14 07:50:16 2005 From: quigonginger at yahoo.com (Ginger) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 23:50:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Foe glass In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050114075016.810.qmail@web60501.mail.yahoo.com> AAAARGH! Dark detectors, Why didn't I think of that? Ginger, shower person due to the lack of a proper sized plug. Yeah, I know, They cost about a dollar. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page Try My Yahoo! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From willsonkmom at msn.com Fri Jan 14 14:46:42 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 14:46:42 -0000 Subject: SHIP with a smile Message-ID: Finally, a ship with some merit. Here's the signature line from a unrelated post: Cindy (who desperately wants Professor Trelawney and her Inner Eye to start dating Moody and his Magical Eye) From quigonginger at yahoo.com Fri Jan 14 16:54:26 2005 From: quigonginger at yahoo.com (quigonginger) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 16:54:26 -0000 Subject: groaner Message-ID: In a post that I rejected due to lack of anything new, there was a great line that I wanted to share with you guys. Kelly Hurt, signing off as Kelly the Yarn Junkie, responded to a question about why the wizards that Harry saw in his younger years didn't say anything to him or tell him that he was a wizard. Kelly thought that they were there only as a guard and not to give him information. "To sum up my theory, they came to barrier Harry, not to apprise him." Is that a groaner or what? Silly question: Is there any way one can look at all the posts in one's assigned group to make sure none have been skipped? As opposed to repeated clicking? Aside to Carolyn: assuming I have skipped none of my last set, I am done and ready for review/suggestions/new assignment/chocolate bunnies. Smiles, Ginger From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Fri Jan 14 19:37:58 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 19:37:58 -0000 Subject: groaner/viewing posts/Paul:question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "quigonginger" wrote: > > Is that a groaner or what? Yep, it is.. > Silly question: Is there any way one can look at all the posts in > one's assigned group to make sure none have been skipped? As opposed to repeated clicking? No, not a silly question, but alas, no there is no alternative at present, not absolutely sure why. Paul: have forgotten the reason why we can't scroll up and down the post numbers, remind me if you see this message... > Aside to Carolyn: assuming I have skipped none of my last set, I am done and ready for review/suggestions/new assignment/chocolate bunnies. I'll take a look at them, but in the meantime, here is a new assignment: 36951-37050 Carolyn Who thinks everyone deserves unlimited choc & butterbeer for the progress this week From willsonkmom at msn.com Sat Jan 15 13:54:41 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:54:41 -0000 Subject: PINK FLAMINGOES Message-ID: The door of the Catalogue office opens and Potioncat steps in, peering around. She strides over to the coat rack and begins to speak. Slowly, other staff members begin to look from her to each other, shaking their heads sadly. "I've looked all over the place and I can't find any. None. You'd think something that outrageous would stand out. I know, I've probably looked in the wrong places. And maybe I've looked right at them and not seen them. But I can't find one! Where is the PINK FLAMINGO? And has anyone turned in my missing glasses?" To translate, I can't find the code for PINK FLAMINGO. Kathy From quigonginger at yahoo.com Sat Jan 15 15:08:55 2005 From: quigonginger at yahoo.com (quigonginger) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 15:08:55 -0000 Subject: possession Message-ID: As long as everyone is here looking for the flamingos (check the Gothic cathedral), I'll raise the question on my mind. Do we have anything for possession? We have a set for possessions, as in personal possessions, as in possessions belonging to a person, but what about a person being possessed? I would imagine that it is a very personal possession, indeed, but not like a watch or a sock. I haven't come across any personally, but between Quirrell, Ginny and Harry, I'm sure time of possession will come into play.* How do we code them? Ginger, getting a little possessive. *That's an American football joke. From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Sat Jan 15 15:48:23 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 15:48:23 -0000 Subject: TBAY: Re: PINK FLAMINGOES In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" wrote: > The door of the Catalogue office opens and Potioncat steps in, >peering around. She strides over to the coat rack and begins to >speak. Slowly, other staff members begin to look from her to each >other, shaking their heads sadly. >"I've looked all over the place and I can't find any. None. You'd >think something that outrageous would stand out. I know, I've >probably looked in the wrong places. And maybe I've looked right at them and not seen them. But I can't find one! Where is the PINK >FLAMINGO? Carolyn peers over her glasses and sighs. The place always gets rowdy on a Friday night. Demob happy for the weekend..binge coding, it's a constant problem. Potioncat's always been a troublemaker, of course..but just look at the astonishing FEATHERBOA tendencies of that new girl, Jen. You'd have thought butter wouldn't melt in her mouth, supposed friend of FAITH, all that jazz - then what do you find, posts all over the floor, pools of blood, gnashings and weepings from great figures from the past...and she just stands there, wiping her knife on her sleeve, grinning. Really; it's not nice. And as for Him up on the top floor, of course, laughing like mad ..mayhem, his favourite pastime. Thinks it funny to hang 'drago dormiens nunquam titillandus' on his door. Poke in the.. with a sharp stick, if he's not careful... Pursing her lips rather more firmly than usual, Carolyn sits down at her keyboard. MEMO TO: ALL CATALOGUE STAFF SUBJECT: FLAMINGOs, various Further to cataloguing decree #931 I note that the InishAlley and HypotheticAlley files have evidently not yet been read and inwardly digested. This has now become a hanging offence, which saves me the time and trouble of having to carry out punishments more than once. Flamingo's, pink, were only ever a memorable turn of phrase; see [34843]: >>Also, the characters involved have all been already presented to us as nice folks capable of sentimental feelings, so adding another bit of warm fuzzies to them doesn't really change anything. Adding it to Snape, however, would be like putting a single pink flamingo in the >middle of a Gothic cathedral.<<< Our dear departed, however, couldn't possibly leave it at that though, could they ? Oh no, there had to be more flamingoes [36422]: >>(Eileen): UGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! I bought into the flamingo in the Gothic Cathedral idea, but two flamingos? Are we redecorating the ship in flamingos? Should we bring in Captain Charis to do some colour co-ordination? If you and Elkins want to do it, I'll leave it to you. But I'm begging leave to pack up and visit Cindy on her "Big Bang Destroyer" for a bit. I'm taking George, the fair-faced cabin boy, with me. (golden-eyed face indeed?) Captain Tabouli pauses, a frown congealing under her hat. While she is of course happy for her crew to take leave, she feels that Eileen's rationale is somewhat against the inclusive atmosphere she is trying to foster aboard LOLLIPOPS. As Captain, she secretly thinks Elkins' S.E.C.O.N.D. F.L.A.M.I.N.G.O... (Snape Eternally Covets Ogleworthy Norris' Damsel Form, Like Argus: Mrs "Inaccessible" Norris Generates Obsession!) ... deserves to be stripped and converted into pretty pink FEATHERBOAS, but then, she also secretly thinks that Pippin's LOVESLAVEs deserve to succumb to the deadly S.I.A.M.E.S.E. V.I.R.U.S... (Snape Is Already Mysterious Enough, So Extra Vampiricism Is Rendered Utterly Superfluous) ...along with all the other theories proclaiming *more* half- blood/unregistered Animagi. Perhaps when Eileen returns from the Big Bang Destroyer, she needs to have a little interview with her Captain about her attitudes. Nodding grimly to herself, Captain Tabouli >signs the peace treaty with Elkins, and ascends once more to the deck of her Ship.<<< Carolyn (having much sympathy with Capn Tabouli) would therefore like to point out that we only have the one flamingo theory category (albeit for two flamingos, probably pink): 2.3.7.1.5 SECOND FLAMINGO Trusting that everyone is keeping up. EDITOR-IN-CHIEF Potioncat: >And has anyone turned in my missing glasses?" Carolyn: Owing to the unfortunate use of the phrase 'kitty, kitty', my three evil and dedicated furry mobsters, who accompany me everywhere, have, er.. inspected them. What was that fixing spell again.. From willsonkmom at msn.com Sat Jan 15 16:54:09 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 16:54:09 -0000 Subject: TBAY: Re: PINK FLAMINGOES In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Potioncat walks carefully to her desk and sits down. Oop, sorry, Sigune, my desk must be over there. Potioncat moves to correct desk, rifles through a drawer and pulls out old, very old, pair of glasses. Now she can distinguish the blurry shapes a little better. She is muttering to herself. "American football joke! Like I would ever get it! I understand just enough football to be confused that Filch would hate punting students across the swamp. Punting students is something he should enjoy." She picks up the scap of paper that begins: > MEMO > > TO: ALL CATALOGUE STAFF > SUBJECT: FLAMINGOs, various > > > Further to cataloguing decree #931 I note that the InishAlley and > HypotheticAlley files have evidently not yet been read and inwardly > digested. This has now become a hanging offence, which saves me the > time and trouble of having to carry out punishments more than once. "READ and digested? We were supposed to READ them before inwardly digesting them? I must have missed that step! Somehow I doubt it would have made the second step much easier. Hanging offence? Hanging around here is offensive enough!" She returns to the memo, > Carolyn (having much sympathy with Capn Tabouli) would therefore like > to point out that we only have the one flamingo theory category > (albeit for two flamingos, probably pink): > > 2.3.7.1.5 SECOND FLAMINGO Potioncat pulls out the coding scroll and lets her eyes scan down..."Oh there it is!" Makes mental note to read list much more carefully in future before asking for help and understands why Carolyn's office has black smoke billowing from under the door. Potioncat continues old habit of muttering to self, "Hmmm, better just overlook the unfortunate incident with the glasses. And I'd better come up with something else...baking didn't really work too well last time. OK, if chocolate isn't the answer, alcohol is...Oh, two birds with one stone!" She jumps and runs to Carolyn's office door, swings it open and begins to speak rapidly. "Boss, boss, I've got it! Let's get a bottle of Ogden's Old Firewhiskey and a bunch of shot glasses. We'll fill each shot glass with the whiskey. The first one will be set outside Kneasy's door, the second a little farther away. The next on the first step, the next on the second step the next..." "I get the idea!" Carolyn roars, but she has a gleam in her eye. One of the other staff members shakes her head, "Better put some pillows on the floor at the foot of the stairs in case he passes out and falls..." From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com Sat Jan 15 18:47:45 2005 From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 18:47:45 +0000 Subject: Possession In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 15 Jan 2005, at 15:59, CarolynWhite2 at aol.com wrote: > > ..stop chewing on bones in your cave for 5 min and give us your > thoughts on cataloguing possession (see Ginger's question).. > I'm not chewing bones, just savouring a nicely structured Tim Adams Shiraz. Good bloke, I met him back in '89 when I descended on Claire Valley like a devouring flame, determined to taste everything that hadn't already been poured down somebody else's gullet. He had a fine bumper sticker - "Life is too short to drink bad wine" - a philosophy I heartily endorse. Um. Possession. Surprised it hasn't come up before. In fact it must have, what with Quirrell and Ginny in the first two books, theories about Sybill and prophesying in book 3 and various other bits 'n pieces that might have worked a fan or two into a momentary frenzy of speculation. And I'd be down-right gob-smacked if there aren't posts that pre-date my Sally-Tom-Harry possession threads. Being heavily unbiased on one side of the argument (in a totally prejudiced way) I think it deserves a major category all to itself with sub-sections such as The Chamber, Godric's Hollow, Sally nails Tom, Split!Voldy, etc. etc. Nothing contentious. Barry Oh, BTW - having major problems with the site, so I'll twiddle me thumbs until Paul upgrades next week. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1379 bytes Desc: not available URL: From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Sat Jan 15 19:14:04 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 19:14:04 -0000 Subject: Possession In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith wrote: He had a fine bumper sticker - "Life is too short to drink bad wine" - a philosophy I heartily endorse. And another good one - 'never cook with wine you wouldn't drink'. Tried and tested on many occasions. > > Um. Possession. Surprised it hasn't come up before. In fact it must > have, what with Quirrell and Ginny in the first two books, theories > about Sybill and prophesying in book 3 and various other bits 'n > pieces that might have worked a fan or two into a momentary frenzy of speculation. And I'd be down-right gob-smacked if there aren't posts that pre-date my Sally-Tom-Harry possession threads. Being heavily unbiased on one side of the argument (in a totally prejudiced way) I think it deserves a major category all to itself with sub- sections such as The Chamber, Godric's Hollow, Sally nails Tom, Split! Voldy, etc. etc. Nothing contentious. So, straightforward then. For starters, I am putting a code in under Voldemort: 2.10.0 TR/Voldemort possession We can use this interchangeably for Tom/Voldy being possessed, but also for him possessing other people. I will also add other codes or move theory acronyms around that seem to be related to this theme as we trip over them. > > Barry > Oh, BTW - having major problems with the site, so I'll twiddle me > thumbs until Paul upgrades next week. Yes, site is down. Reason unknown. Hopefully find out for tomorrow's update. From stevejjen at earthlink.net Sat Jan 15 20:37:01 2005 From: stevejjen at earthlink.net (Jen Reese) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 20:37:01 -0000 Subject: TBAY: Re: PINK FLAMINGOES In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jen pauses for a moment, blinking at the pool of blood surrounding her and searching for a whetstone to sharpen the still-warm blade of her sword. "Aye, Cap'n, I did as ye wished. Slash and burn; the dead were all 'round me and the rest, they were beggin' for mercy, they were! Even the mighty fell at the sight of me sword. You won't see another day like this one, mind ye!" Chuckling evilly to herself at the memory of all the bloodshed, Jen turns to find Carolyn staring sharply at the blade, her face a delicate shade of ash, her lips pursed firmly in a gray line. "That is quite enough bloodshed for the moment, thank you." Carolyn spat out, her sinister voice barely above a whisper. "Do you realize the great figures from the past who barely escaped your blade? Elkins, Tabouli....have you no shame? Bah!" Suddenly Carolyn's voice turns to a roar, loud enough to make Potioncat jump and forget her muttering for the moment; loud enough for the door at the top of the stairs to creak slightly and two beady eyes to poke out; loud enough for Jen to forget her whetstone and allow the sword to drop limply at her side. "HANGINGS!" Carolyn roared with a force that shook the entire building and perhaps one or two others on the street. "I WILL NOT REPEAT THIS AGAIN..." Carolyn's voice drops a few levels, back to a sinister hiss. She thrusts a pointy talon in the direction of Jen, "there will be no more bloodshed...and YOU," Carolyn thrusts her editing pencil toward the towering stack of paper on Potioncat's desk, "My orders were to 'read and inwardly digest', weren't they now. And...." *Click* Carolyn turns suddenly at the sound of a door clicking softly into place at the top of the stairs, mounts the first step, then evidently thinks better of it. Muttering to herself about poking sticks and sleeping dragons, she spins into her office and slams the door. The muffled sound of tapping keys is the only thing breaking the utter stillness descending in Carolyn's wake. Potioncat stares at the wall for a moment, grumbling, "READ and digest? Who READS and digests, I ask you." Jen carefully measures the sharpness of her blade, realization dawning that perhaps the Captain's orders were more along the lines of a discriminate hatchet job than all-out warfare. She speaks softly to no one in particular, "we can fix this right up, we can. By daybreak, the bloodshed will be long forgotten...but..." Jen sheaths her sword and chuckles in a slightly sinister way, "but if the Captain thinks she can ever catch me for a hangin' why she's mistaken. Aye, the FEATHERBOAS have tried to lure me in, and FAITH sways me like a gentle breeze at times, but none of 'em can ever pin me down, no...." Jen walks over to her office door, more of a cramped cupboard than an actual room, and disappears inside. From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Sat Jan 15 21:36:40 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 21:36:40 -0000 Subject: TBAY: Re: PINK FLAMINGOES/Site's back up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Jen Reese" wrote: > >>>Jen sheaths her sword and chuckles in a slightly sinister way, "but if the Captain thinks she can ever catch me for a hangin' why she's mistaken. Aye, the FEATHERBOAS have tried to lure me in, and FAITH sways me like a gentle breeze at times, but none of 'em can ever pin me down, no...." Jen walks over to her office door, more of a cramped cupboard than an actual room, and disappears inside.<<< Carolyn removes her ear from the door with a satisfied smile. The new recruit had yet to realise the beauty of the softly simmering conspiracy theory with its shimmering fumes, the delicate power of subversive ideas that creep through human veins, bewitching the mind, ensnaring the senses...and remembered the snarl of the Grand Master on the top floor: 'I can teach you how to write great posts, brew sedition and calumny, even stopper List Elves - if you aren't as big a bunch of cataloguers as I usually have to teach.' What was that fine English saying..'might as well hang for a sheep as for a lamb'... oh what a den of iniquity you have entered, Jen me girl... Abruptly coming out of her reverie, Carolyn barked over the tannoy: SERVER FIXED! CATALOGUE BACK UP! There was a sound of scurrying feet, and the sound of hesitant tapping again filled the air, interspersed with tuts of irritation and intermittent groaning. From stevejjen at earthlink.net Sun Jan 16 03:02:21 2005 From: stevejjen at earthlink.net (Jen Reese) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 03:02:21 -0000 Subject: TBAY: Re: PINK FLAMINGOES/Site's back up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "SERVER FIXED! CATALOGUE BACK UP!" There was a sound of scurrying feet, and the sound of hesitant tapping again filled the air, interspersed with tuts of irritation and intermittent groaning. The sudden movement in the building causes Jen to lift her head, bleary-eyed from a nap and cold medication. She glances at her in- box and grins. "Done!" she exclaims, dropping her head back on her desk, her limbs going slack. Carolyn, sensing a drop in production, flexes her fingers above the keyboard and ponders Jen's fate. "Let's keep that one busy, shall we?" Carolyn chortles, sending Jen her next batch of posts. From annemehr at yahoo.com Sun Jan 16 07:27:31 2005 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 07:27:31 -0000 Subject: Rats/Site's back up Message-ID: The site is indeed back up, and zipping along like a Ferrari (so far, knock wood)! Anyway, I was looking under 2.15 Beasts for "rats," but it's not there. Do we want one for rats, and a subcode for Scabbers? In the post I was coding, Peter Pettigrew worked fine to handle the Scabbers/Peter discussion, but a later post was a discussion about how well Ron treated Scabbers and whether magical rats could stand rougher treatment than the muggle ones we're used to. It'd seem strange to code it to Pettigrew. I'm rejecting that particular post, though, since its logic was a bit mangled. Hasn't this come up for anyone before, or are you all happily coding all Rat posts to Pettigrew? Anne not posting TBAY style at 2:27 a.m., sorry From annemehr at yahoo.com Sun Jan 16 08:45:42 2005 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 08:45:42 -0000 Subject: anagrams Message-ID: By the way, how are we treating posts about anagrams? Coding them under Foreshadowing, clues and misdirection? I only hesitate to do that because I don't believe Jo had any intention of making meaningful anagrams out of most of these. Post #35981: potions master --> I am Potters son (no wonder he wants to switch to DADA) One other thought: under the Characterisation section, I wouldn't mind seeing a code for "believability/exaggeration" or something like that. Anne From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Sun Jan 16 09:23:34 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 09:23:34 -0000 Subject: Rats/acronyms/characterisation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" wrote: > > Anyway, I was looking under 2.15 Beasts for "rats," but it's not > there. Do we want one for rats, and a subcode for Scabbers? In the > post I was coding, Peter Pettigrew worked fine to handle the > Scabbers/Peter discussion, but a later post was a discussion about how well Ron treated Scabbers and whether magical rats could stand rougher treatment than the muggle ones we're used to. It'd seem strange to code it to Pettigrew. I'm rejecting that particular post, though, since its logic was a bit mangled. > > Hasn't this come up for anyone before, or are you all happily coding > all Rat posts to Pettigrew? Carolyn: Mm, I thought about this, the solution I have been using is: - when it is a Scabbers/Peter discussion, click animagi as well as Pettigrew - when it is a discussion about rats & pets, use 3.16.10 Pets allowed at school However, this is slightly illogical as I also have stags, cats and dogs under beasts. I will bow to argument and add 'rats' to the beasts list if you like (?) Anne: By the way, how are we treating posts about anagrams? Coding them under Foreshadowing, clues and misdirection? I only hesitate to do that because I don't believe Jo had any intention of making meaningful anagrams out of most of these. Carolyn: Got a whole section for them! See 1.5.9 - it's even got three theory acronyms of its own. Not sure we can let her off all that lightly - she started the whole business, after all, with 'Tom Marvolo Riddle/I am Lord Voldemort'. Anne: One other thought: under the Characterisation section, I wouldn't mind seeing a code for "believability/exaggeration" or something like that. Carolyn: Is this to capture Naama-style arguments about whether a character could- or could not do XYZ? I'm coding to 1.3.1 & 1.3.1.2 when these threads come up. From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Sun Jan 16 09:32:44 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 09:32:44 -0000 Subject: Posts for Jen/& correction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Jen Reese" wrote: > > The sudden movement in the building causes Jen to lift her head, > bleary-eyed from a nap and cold medication. She glances at her in- > box and grins. "Done!" she exclaims, dropping her head back on her > desk, her limbs going slack. > > Carolyn, sensing a drop in production, flexes her fingers above the > keyboard and ponders Jen's fate. "Let's keep that one busy, shall > we?" Carolyn chortles, sending Jen her next batch of posts. Slightly guiltily because she didn't realise Jen had a cold, Carolyn hands her her new assignment: 37051-37150 Have some hot chocolate, and maybe a croissant..'tis Sunday after all. Erm, and I meant anagrams not acronyms in the heading of that last post. Oh well. Carolyn Going back to researching gibbets on Google.. From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Sun Jan 16 11:50:24 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 11:50:24 -0000 Subject: UPDATE, Sunday 16th January Message-ID: PROGRESS: To date, we have coded or allocated for coding 44965 posts. Of the 44965, we have actually coded 43335 posts, and rejected 24118 of these (55.6%). Currently, we have reached post 37150 on the main list, and with 9 people coding this week, we did 1338 posts. CODING ERRORS: Could people check the following posts for reject/non-reject status. Some of them are just uncoded, so have slipped through. Apologies for chasing them if you are waiting on a reply from me as to where they should be coded. Debbie: 32983, 30877 Kathy (Potioncat): 36529 Kathy (Snow): 36589, 36592 Dot: 36772, 36765 Ginger: 37027, 29, 33, 36, 41, 46, 47 TECHNOSTUFF: The connection problem seems to have solved earlier than expected. Despite temporary crash yesterday, which was due to Paul's server going down, the site is now ripping along, a really noticeable difference. So, um, no excuses then. STATISTICAL TRIVIA: Hey, I'm pleased to announce that my prediction has come true - Snape now more popular than Harry ! And this is just on hits to the main character code, never mind subsidiary theory codes. Probably it's only JKR who imagines she is writing a story about a boy wizard.. here's the top ten, as of today: Snape: 1934 Harry: 1928 Hermione: 1014 Sirius: 983 Voldemort: 939 Dumbledore: 923 Ron: 903 Lupin: 742 Draco: 690 Peter: 541 NEW CATEGORIES: 1.1.2.1 Contrition & forgiveness (a re-titling rather than new) 2.1.3.14 FIRE 2.10.0 TR/Voldemort possession 3.8.4.14 Serpensortia From elfundeb at comcast.net Sun Jan 16 19:02:53 2005 From: elfundeb at comcast.net (Debbie) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 19:02:53 -0000 Subject: TBAY: Re: PINK FLAMINGOES/Site's back up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Debbie taps softly on the door to the Catalogue Office, and the door swings open. The office is quite spacious, with a large desk at one end of the room where Cap'n Carolyn sits in her dress whites, brandishing a shiny new SYCOPHANTS badge. A single pink flamingo peeks out of the trash can, but a SECOND PINK FLAMINGO holds an honored position on the desk. Jen, a a razor-sharp sword between her teeth, is examining a collection of FEATHERBOAS draped over a coat rack in a far corner. In between, various Catalogue staffers are sitting on squashy armchairs, sipping hot chocolate and butterbeer. Others are down on the floor, murmuring "kitty, kitty" as they inspect a basket of FLIRTIAC badges. Debbie stands quietly by the door, shaking her head. "Don't they know it's addictive?" she thinks. "Should I stop them before they sink in too deep?" Suddenly, out of the din, Cap'n Carolyn barks: "SERVER FIXED! CATALOGUE BACK UP!" The conversation ceases instantly, as the staff whip out their laptops and cataloguing hatchets, and proceed to decide the fate of bygone posts. Debbie, still at the doorway, shuts the door behind her before stopping by the coat rack for a pair of FEATHERBOAS, which she drapes over her shoulders as she rummages through the basket looking for her long-lost FLIRTIAC badge. The Captain gives her a questioning look. Debbie shrugs and mumbles, "I didn't like the 12-step program anyway." Finally, she settles in an armchair to finish her latest assignment. After an hour's hard work, and after deciding that a post about Ron's treatment of Scabbers could not be coded to "Pettigrew", she approaches the Captain's desk. "I'm finished," she whispers, to avoid disturbing the other cataloguers. "I need more posts. And I need to sharpen my hatchet. It's not cutting very well." Debbie back on the road to TBAY perdition From kkearney at students.miami.edu Sun Jan 16 19:39:23 2005 From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 19:39:23 -0000 Subject: Blame, again Message-ID: Carolyn, Regarding post 33533, which you asked me to review, I was holding off on this one to see if "Blame and Responsibility" might require a category of its own. Did we decide no? -Kelly, holding off on TBAY-style posting because, well, I'm really, really bad at it. :) From annemehr at yahoo.com Mon Jan 17 02:57:45 2005 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 02:57:45 -0000 Subject: /characterisation/new batch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Anne: > One other thought: under the Characterisation section, I wouldn't mind > seeing a code for "believability/exaggeration" or something like that. > > Carolyn: > Is this to capture Naama-style arguments about whether a character > could- or could not do XYZ? I'm coding to 1.3.1 & 1.3.1.2 when these > threads come up. Anne: Yes, that fits, and we can also code to the example characters themselves, and to 1.4.2 Effect of PoV narration. But sometimes the discussion is about the way JKR writes characters in general (even when specific examples are included), such as this excerpt from #36000: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I think the main problem with our debate here is that we're not talking about the same thing when we say "change." What *I* meant by it, is a deep shift in our perception of the character's character; that we find that s/he is not as s/he seems. *You* seem to use "change" in the sense of "develop." In order to reach semantic agreement, I'd like to distinguish between two two kinds of developement (or change). One is the development that the characters go through as real people. That is, they develop as they grow up or because of experiences they go through or because other people influence them, etc. The examples you give of Hermione and Ginny fall under this category. A different kind of developement is the development of the character as a fictional character - that is, the gradual (or otherwise) revelation of his/her personality by the author. IMO, Crouch and Bagman fall under this category. During the period of time we "know" them (that is, GoF) they dont' change in themselves. What changes is our knowledge and understanding of them. Of course, during four years the young characters do change and develop as young people do and should. In this sense, we can talk of whether their development is in character or not. Is 14 year old Harry a reasonable "extension" of 11 year old Harry? Is Ron? Is Hermione? Etc. But I think that this discussion is much more about the second category of development/change - that of the change in *our perception* of the character. It is in regard of this that I claim that characters do not change (besides those shifts and twists in the guilty/red-herring characters involved in the mystery plots of each book). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I'm thinking of this from the end-user's point of view. Someone who was looking for a general discussion of the way JKR writes characters would probably first look in the Characterisation section, don't you think? On further thought, "believablility/exaggeration" is probably much too specific. Maybe something like "effectiveness of character development"... I don't know, I can't think when I can't breathe! Something that can hold both definitions of change from the quoted post, anyway. No? And as you may have noticed, this post (#36000) is the last in my batch. I'm coding it up as you suggested, so I'm ready for some more. Anne From spotthedungbeetle at hotmail.com Mon Jan 17 11:10:02 2005 From: spotthedungbeetle at hotmail.com (dungrollin) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:10:02 -0000 Subject: Query Message-ID: Well, queries, rather. I'm delighted to find I've got Still Life With Memory Charm (36772), but it's proving a bit tricky to code. Firstly there's quite a bit about the Robertses at the QWC, and Mr. Roberts's memory by the end of all the memory charms, and they're not under Muggles - should they be? Secondly there's nothing under back history for speculation about Bella and co. torturing the Longbottoms - have I missed it somewhere else? Thirdly, later on in the thread there's a lot of talk about ugly secrets about supposedly good characters coming out. Doesn't seem to fit under Spying Espionage and Betrayal, nor exactly under ESE. Any ideas? Bit stuck. Cheers, Dot From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 11:20:19 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:20:19 -0000 Subject: Responsibility/character development/Ffording the BAY Message-ID: Kelly: Regarding post 33533, which you asked me to review, I was holding off on this one to see if "Blame and Responsibility" might require a category of its own. Did we decide no? Carolyn: I think this question got lost, sorry, my fault. I have added: 1.1.1.5.3 Responsibility as a sub-category of morality/immorality. Hope this helps. Anne: On further thought, "believablility/exaggeration" is probably much too specific. Maybe something like "effectiveness of character development"... I don't know, I can't think when I can't breathe! Something that can hold both definitions of change from the quoted post, anyway. No? And as you may have noticed, this post (#36000) is the last in my batch. I'm coding it up as you suggested, so I'm ready for some more. Carolyn: Ok, take your point. I have added: 1.4.1 Character development (and re-numbered the previous category to keep these two together at the top of this section). Here's a new allocation: 37251-37350 (you are all catching this cold off each other at that pub, y'know...) >>Debbie, still at the doorway, shuts the door behind her before stopping by the coat rack for a pair of FEATHERBOAS, which she drapes over her shoulders as she rummages through the basket looking for her long-lost FLIRTIAC badge. The Captain gives her a questioning look. Debbie shrugs and mumbles, "I didn't like the 12-step program anyway." Finally, she settles in an armchair to finish her latest assignment. After an hour's hard work, and after deciding that a post about Ron's treatment of Scabbers could not be coded to "Pettigrew", she approaches the Captain's desk. "I'm finished," she whispers, to avoid disturbing the other cataloguers. "I need more posts. And I need to sharpen my hatchet. It's not cutting very well." Debbie back on the road to TBAY perdition<< Carolyn looks up as the repentent Elf approaches, and Debbie is startled to see that what she took to be dress whites is nothing of the kind. Instead..she looks in disbelief at the yellowing, torn lace, scuffed satin slippers and tarnished jewellry. 'Miss Haversham?' she whispers..'but *which* Miss Haversham?' In the strong winter sunshine streaming through the window, it is difficult to tell who or what is real in this virtual world. 'A final mission...I had a word with the Chronoguard. It seemed an emergency situation. Valuable plot devices, powerful theories and lost dialogue all over the place. At this stage, unfortunately we can't save many lives, but a search-and-retrieve operation is bringing in the bodies. At least relatives and friends will have a chance to grieve and move on.' She gave a final polish to Elkin's SYCOPHANT badge, and put it carefully away in a box on her desk. Beside her on the floor was a sea-chest full of salt-stained pirate outfits, rusting cutlasses and Captain's hats. On the wall hung a huge paddle. 'I understand you are a survivor?' she said, eyeing the tangled pink and brown FEATHERBOAS. Debbie whispered something incoherent, her eyes darting to the door. There was a heavy step on the stairs; somewhere on the top floor a door banged. 'Well, stronger people than yourself have succumbed to the Control Centre...a regular daily dose of old posts will set you up in no time.' She scrawled a new prescription with her gnarled old hands on a bit of parchment: 37351 - 37450. 'Must go....lunch in Muggleland beckons.' Cramming an out-dated tiara on her head, Miss Carolyn Haversham whisked out the office. Debbie watched in astonishment as, with an agility that belied her years and strange assortment of garments, the old crone leapt on a giant motorbike and roared out of sight, spraying mud and filthy water all over a righteous crowd protesting against the use of runes in the Potterverse, indeed in any books. She turned to go. At least it explained where Sirius's bike had gone. From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 13:16:38 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 13:16:38 -0000 Subject: Query/Memory Charmed Neville In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "dungrollin" wrote: > > Well, queries, rather. > > I'm delighted to find I've got Still Life With Memory Charm (36772), > but it's proving a bit tricky to code. > > Firstly there's quite a bit about the Robertses at the QWC, and Mr. > Roberts's memory by the end of all the memory charms, and they're > not under Muggles - should they be? > > Secondly there's nothing under back history for speculation about > Bella and co. torturing the Longbottoms - have I missed it somewhere > else? > > Thirdly, later on in the thread there's a lot of talk about ugly > secrets about supposedly good characters coming out. Doesn't seem > to fit under Spying Espionage and Betrayal, nor exactly under ESE. > Any ideas? Bit stuck. > > Cheers, > Dot Hi Dot What a great Elkins post - she's on top form in this one. The extra codes I would add are as follows: 1.3.1 Authorial intent 1.3.4 Foreshadowing etc 1.4.0 Characterisation 1.4.8 Psychological assessments Plus Trevor, Granny Longbottom, Crouch Sr & Jr To answer your specific points: Robertses - in this case, it's a bit of canon evidence being cited rather than a discussion of Robertses, ie, they are not the main point of the reference, so no need to try and code them in. However, I will add them to the list of muggles if we do get a discussion of them as characters. I've been wondering whether to add a back history code for the Longbottom incident and have now decided to do so - there are a lot of posts about it: 1.3.5.4 Longbottom torture For the ugly secrets, I think it is ok just to code to the characters concerned for now. Anyone else have any comments - my word is not law you know! Carolyn/aka Miss Havisham who's literary jokes would be more effective if she could only spell the character's names.. From willsonkmom at msn.com Mon Jan 17 14:06:15 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:06:15 -0000 Subject: More questions Message-ID: As much as I wanted to post T-BAY style, I have too many questions to make it work. I'm coming across a number of posts (here and on main list) that use psychological theories to discuss HP. I've seen Freud, Maslov, Erikson...where should we put that sort of post? It's not really the same as "I think so-and-so is depressed." Does the heading for T-BAY only apply if the style is T-BAY or also if the topics have to do with the theories? (I think we've touched on that before?)I've seen posts that are straight discussion but use the T-BAY acronyms. Also, I came across a pretty good T-BAY post that sort of explained some of the theories, but had more to do with T-BAY than with HP. I wasn't sure whether to keep it since a person looking into T-BAY might want to read it, or to reject it as OT. I made a decision (just don't ask me what it was.) but I was wondering if we should code those type of posts in the same way we do FILKS? Carolyn, would you double check the rejected posts to be double checked? I don't show 36529 as rejected. Also please send me a new batch quickly, before I get caught up in yet another "Snape is good, no he isn't" thread on the Main List. Kathy (Potioncat) From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 15:22:09 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:22:09 -0000 Subject: More questions/about TBAY & psychology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" wrote: > > As much as I wanted to post T-BAY style, I have too many questions > to make it work. It can get too much of a good thing... > I'm coming across a number of posts (here and on main list) that use psychological theories to discuss HP. I've seen Freud, Maslov, > Erikson...where should we put that sort of post? It's not really > the same as "I think so-and-so is depressed." Well, I would code to 1.4.8 quite a lot (it isn't just for PTSD), but also use categories such as 2.17.4 Sex in the WW, 1.1.6 Parenting & child development etc etc, as seemed appropriate. > > Does the heading for T-BAY only apply if the style is T-BAY or also > if the topics have to do with the theories? (I think we've touched > on that before?)I've seen posts that are straight discussion but use the T-BAY acronyms. Theories don't necessarily = TBAY. The prefix TBAY refers more to the style in which they are written, when it (arguably) becomes ficcy - memorably discussed, I believe, in a row that became known as TBacle 1. Many opposed the writing style and wanted to keep to straight analysis, and it was then that the prefix was first introduced, so that the squeamish could avert their eyes (but everyone else could make a beeline for them). Someone who was there at the time might care to elaborate further. > > Also, I came across a pretty good T-BAY post that sort of explained > some of the theories, but had more to do with T-BAY than with HP. I > wasn't sure whether to keep it since a person looking into T-BAY > might want to read it, or to reject it as OT. I made a decision > (just don't ask me what it was.) but I was wondering if we should > code those type of posts in the same way we do FILKS? This sounds like something that should be kept - can you possibly dig out the post number and let me take a look? > > Carolyn, would you double check the rejected posts to be double > checked? I don't show 36529 as rejected. Yes, this seems to be fine (ironically, someone else confused by pink flamingoes!). Sorry about that, maybe misread a number..(cats got my glasses..). > > Also please send me a new batch quickly, before I get caught up in > yet another "Snape is good, no he isn't" thread on the Main List. > Kathy (Potioncat) Remember what they taught you at school: just say no. Hastily: 37451 -37550. From willsonkmom at msn.com Mon Jan 17 16:36:24 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 16:36:24 -0000 Subject: More questions/about TBAY & psychology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Also, I came across a pretty good T-BAY post that sort of explained > > some of the theories, but had more to do with T-BAY than with HP. I > > wasn't sure whether to keep it since a person looking into T-BAY > > might want to read it, or to reject it as OT. I made a decision > > (just don't ask me what it was.) but I was wondering if we should > > code those type of posts in the same way we do FILKS? > > This sounds like something that should be kept - can you possibly dig > out the post number and let me take a look? It was 36538, which I did code. Take a look and see what you think. I rejected 36539, because it talked about why the poster took certain approaches, but wasn't really connected to canon. It was a pretty good post. See what you think there too. Potioncat, eyeing Jen's sword with some envy. From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Mon Jan 17 18:30:03 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:30:03 -0000 Subject: 36538/36539 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" wrote: > > It was 36538, which I did code. Take a look and see what you > think. I rejected 36539, because it talked about why the poster > took certain approaches, but wasn't really connected to canon. It > was a pretty good post. See what you think there too. > > Potioncat, eyeing Jen's sword with some envy. 36538 - I would add Avery, and possibly SECOND FLAMINGO if you were feeling good tempered (!) 36539 - yes, tricky. Probably on balance it should be rejected as merely personal feeling about SYCOPHANT on-list allegiances...but you could argue the thread should be kept intact for posterity. Hope someone cares, some day, all these anxious judgements we are making. Carolyn From annemehr at yahoo.com Mon Jan 17 18:50:18 2005 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:50:18 -0000 Subject: 36538/36539 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "carolynwhite2" wrote: ...but you > could argue the thread should be kept intact for posterity. > O.o Wait, we keep certain posts merely for keeping threads intact? Once they start going in circles, I start rejecting merrily, but when a fresh idea comes up I code it even if it's *about* theorising rather than actually theorising itself. *thinks of all those Snape vs Harry threads that go on for weeks and then pop up again as if an original thought two weeks later* *sharpens machete* Yes, machete. The axe and sword were taken. Anne not exactly TBAY but I can see it from here From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 09:04:12 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:04:12 -0000 Subject: 36538/36539 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" wrote: > > --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "carolynwhite2" > wrote: > ...but you > > could argue the thread should be kept intact for posterity. > > > > O.o Wait, we keep certain posts merely for keeping threads intact? > > Once they start going in circles, I start rejecting merrily, but when a fresh idea comes up I code it even if it's *about* theorising rather than actually theorising itself. > > Anne > not exactly TBAY but I can see it from here Carolyn: Well, sometimes, if it's a lively thread I keep stuff that's not strictly canon-related, because it builds up the larger picture, particularly if the post comes from a well-known poster. This one we are looking at (36539) sort of fits that - not really germane to the argument, but kind of interesting as to one poster's particular position about something. But, yes, slash and chop away once they start going round in circles. From willsonkmom at msn.com Tue Jan 18 13:05:41 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 13:05:41 -0000 Subject: Missing Weasley Children Message-ID: Potioncat steps into the office proudly holding her new dagger. "What have you been up to?" Captain Carolyn asks, nervously. "Never you mind, Captain," she grins. I landed in the middle of a thread about the "missing Weasley child (ren)". I coded it to several appropriate codes, but wonder if we need a code for that theory? This one is tied more to Molly's reaction to the Dark Mark at the World Cup than to why there is an age gap. I also hit a very funny post(in retrospect), about how badly women are portrayed and being excited that the next DADA teacher would be a woman. And a post where some poor seer was being slammed for suggesting that Mrs. Figg could be a squib. From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Tue Jan 18 19:39:02 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 19:39:02 -0000 Subject: Missing Weasley Children In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" wrote: > > I landed in the middle of a thread about the "missing Weasley child > (ren)". I coded it to several appropriate codes, but wonder if we > need a code for that theory? This one is tied more to Molly's > reaction to the Dark Mark at the World Cup than to why there is an > age gap. > Yeah, we could have a code for this..question is, should it be under 1.4.7 Family dynamics/Weasleys or is the existing code 1.7.4.1 Weasley age gaps sufficient to code this to ? Carolyn From willsonkmom at msn.com Tue Jan 18 19:54:18 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (Kathy Willson) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 14:54:18 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Missing Weasley Children In-Reply-To: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "carolynwhite2" Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Missing Weasley Children Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 19:39:02 -0000 Size: 2803 URL: From annemehr at yahoo.com Wed Jan 19 01:40:59 2005 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 01:40:59 -0000 Subject: That sudden feeling of dread Message-ID: Just noticed my new batch starts at April 1, 2002. Which means it's less than six months before my debut on the list. Just don't forget - I'm armed, too, and can give as good as I get. You've been warned. Anne From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Wed Jan 19 12:04:47 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:04:47 -0000 Subject: dread/Snape fray/today's new word/SYCOPHANTS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" wrote: > > Just noticed my new batch starts at April 1, 2002. Which means it's > less than six months before my debut on the list. > > Just don't forget - I'm armed, too, and can give as good as I get. > > You've been warned. > > Anne 'Wouldn't dream of it,' said Fred, who was looking as if his birthday had come early. 'Definitely not,' said George, sniggering. Kathy (Potioncat): Aren't you proud of me? I stayed out of the Snape fray! (Except to discuss amimagus theory.) Pippin's continuing defence of ESE!Lupin is far better entertainment, and a model in how to conduct a relentless argument. Carolyn Who came across a new word 'prosopopoeia' in her dictionary this morning, and thought how apt a list name it would be for someone indulging in TBAY. PS For anyone searching for SYCOPHANTS, I moved it last night from being a Karkaroff sub-category to section 1, reader response. Hope that's ok. From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 12:13:58 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 12:13:58 -0000 Subject: Talking of grinning... Message-ID: Get thee over to TOC for a Kneasy rumination on Uncle Vernon. Those not members, kick at Kelley's door - she'll let you in. Carolyn From quigonginger at yahoo.com Thu Jan 20 14:10:03 2005 From: quigonginger at yahoo.com (quigonginger) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:10:03 -0000 Subject: getting in to code Message-ID: Ok, am I a real dufus? Or am I the only one who hasn't been able to get in to code. I have the thingie-to-click-on saved as a favourite, but when I click on it, it just says page can not be displayed. Is it me? Or is the server having trouble? I have been trying every morning for the last couple of days. Any advise? Thanks, Ginger From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 14:47:39 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:47:39 -0000 Subject: getting in to code In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "quigonginger" wrote: > > Ok, am I a real dufus? Or am I the only one who hasn't been able to > get in to code. I have the thingie-to-click-on saved as a favourite, > but when I click on it, it just says page can not be displayed. > Is it me? Or is the server having trouble? I have been trying every > morning for the last couple of days. > > Any advise? Thanks, Ginger Hi Ginger The site seems to be ok (just checked) and has been all week. You could try clearing up your URL cache, in case that's a factor. If not, it could be that you have a variable IP address, like some others in the group. The thing to do is go through the sign-up routine again, ie first click http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/myip.php just to make Paul aware of your computer, then visit the site address: http://24.0.253.65:443 a few times, then cross fingers and hope to get in a bit later in the day. (Worth re-checking you have correct site address saved too!). Unfortunately I can't get hold of Paul at work by YM anymore, and anyway he can't access his home computer from work either at his new job, so may have to wait until the evening US-time, before it gets resolved. Sorry you are having problems. Carolyn From willsonkmom at msn.com Thu Jan 20 17:07:14 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:07:14 -0000 Subject: TRASHY SLIMEBALL Message-ID: Guess what? I was the first one to code TRASHY SLIMEBALL and CRAB CUSTARD! What a funny post. I was laughing so hard!! You should all read Post number 37498. You'll have a ball! Potioncat/Kathy From kkearney at students.miami.edu Thu Jan 20 17:50:26 2005 From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:50:26 -0000 Subject: Missing Weasley Children In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Potioncat wrote: > > I landed in the middle of a thread about the "missing Weasley child > > (ren)". I coded it to several appropriate codes, but wonder if we > > need a code for that theory? This one is tied more to Molly's > > reaction to the Dark Mark at the World Cup than to why there is an > > age gap. And Carolyn replied: > Yeah, we could have a code for this..question is, should it be under > 1.4.7 Family dynamics/Weasleys > > or is the existing code 1.7.4.1 Weasley age gaps sufficient to code > this to ? I also just coded a few posts discussing this topic, and the symbolism associated with a seventh son (with Ron as Seer implications). I used th 1.4.7 Family dynamics/Weasleys and also 1.5.11 Numbers. -Kelly From kkearney at students.miami.edu Thu Jan 20 19:52:25 2005 From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:52:25 -0000 Subject: Narative style Message-ID: I've been working through a pretty substantial thread, beginning with post 33582, entitled "Harry Potter- A Worthwhile Series?". The thread began with a criticism of JKR's writing ability as compared to Tolkien and C.S. Lewis, and includes some very thorough responses regarding the quality of the HP series. I've been coding them all to 1.3.2 Narrative style. However, perusing some of the later posts, I've noticed that Carolyn has been a bit more liberal in her coding, including all of the following: 1.3.1 Parameters set by JKR/Authorial intent 1.3.2 Narrative style 1.6.1 Tolkein 1.6.2 CS Lewis 1.6.5 Children's classics 1.3.1.2 Reader response & subversive readings I hadn't been including any of the 1.6 categories, since the posts aren't discussing influences but rather differences/similarities between the HP series and other authors. Do you think I should go back and add these, or should I just leave my batch as is? -Kelly From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Thu Jan 20 21:55:29 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 21:55:29 -0000 Subject: Narrative style/good vs evil in HP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "corinthum" wrote: > > I've been working through a pretty substantial thread, beginning with > post 33582, entitled "Harry Potter- A Worthwhile Series?". The > thread began with a criticism of JKR's writing ability as compared to > Tolkien and C.S. Lewis, and includes some very thorough responses > regarding the quality of the HP series. I've been coding them all to > 1.3.2 Narrative style. However, perusing some of the later posts, > I've noticed that Carolyn has been a bit more liberal in her coding, > including all of the following: > > 1.3.1 Parameters set by JKR/Authorial intent > 1.3.2 Narrative style > 1.6.1 Tolkein > 1.6.2 CS Lewis > 1.6.5 Children's classics > 1.3.1.2 Reader response & subversive readings > > I hadn't been including any of the 1.6 categories, since the posts > aren't discussing influences but rather differences/similarities > between the HP series and other authors. Do you think I should go > back and add these, or should I just leave my batch as is? > > -Kelly Kelly I took a look at the beginning of this thread, and have to confess that the first post (33582) is the kind of thing which causes a red mist to descend over my eyes and makes me truly wonder if I am on the same planet as other readers. By the time I had picked up the thread and started coding later on, some more thoughtful discussion had evidently set in. However, several points: - by 'quality', I believe the author is initially referring to moral quality more than written style, although narrative style and writing ability is also cited, therefore you need a broader coding. - the codes under 'other influences' should be clicked whenever there is an extended discussion/comparison of HP with other genres or specific authors - here CS Lewis. The central point of the initial post is that Rowling's view of good and evil is simplistic, vs the apparently superior moral outlook of the Narnia books [pause to choke..]. - the discussion quickly becomes religious (inevitably), so 'religious influences' should be clicked, and most probably 'good vs evil', 'morality/immorality' etc. - as some people (fortunately) put up some spirited responses, I think 'reader response/subversive readings' is useful for some posts down the line. Any other views from people with a higher tolerance level than me for this sort of stuff? Carolyn Facing a birthday tomorrow, so extra grumpy, apologies. From kkearney at students.miami.edu Fri Jan 21 14:20:31 2005 From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:20:31 -0000 Subject: Narrative style/good vs evil in HP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carolyn wrote: > I took a look at the beginning of this thread, and have to confess > that the first post (33582) is the kind of thing which causes a red > mist to descend over my eyes and makes me truly wonder if I am on the > same planet as other readers. By the time I had picked up the thread > and started coding later on, some more thoughtful discussion had > evidently set in. > > However, several points: > > - by 'quality', I believe the author is initially referring to moral > quality more than written style, although narrative style and writing > ability is also cited, therefore you need a broader coding. > > - the codes under 'other influences' should be clicked whenever there > is an extended discussion/comparison of HP with other genres or > specific authors - here CS Lewis. The central point of the initial > post is that Rowling's view of good and evil is simplistic, vs the > apparently superior moral outlook of the Narnia books [pause to > choke..]. > > - the discussion quickly becomes religious (inevitably), > so 'religious influences' should be clicked, and most probably 'good > vs evil', 'morality/immorality' etc. > > - as some people (fortunately) put up some spirited responses, I > think 'reader response/subversive readings' is useful for some posts > down the line. Okay, I'll keep that in mind for the rest of the thread, an I'll go back and revise the ones I've already done once I finish the set I'm working on. And I agree, the initial post was ill-informed and close-minded (Can you imagine a parent who makes you proofread everything you read? That's why I disliked reading for school; took all the fun out of it) but it provoked some excellent responses. I'm curious to see if the original poster ever rejoined the debate, or if he just dropped the first post without any intent to discuss. -Kelly From quigonginger at yahoo.com Fri Jan 21 18:35:48 2005 From: quigonginger at yahoo.com (Ginger) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 10:35:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: getting in to code In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050121183548.2205.qmail@web60502.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Ginger The site seems to be ok (just checked) and has been all week. You could try clearing up your URL cache, in case that's a factor. Thanks, Carolyn. Blush time. What is a URL cache, and how does one go about clearing it? I kept the rest of your post and have tried clicking on the links you provided. No luck yet, but I'll try it a few more times. If the problem continues, I'll let you know. Thanks again, Ginger --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! Get yours free! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 19:36:38 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 19:36:38 -0000 Subject: getting in to code In-Reply-To: <20050121183548.2205.qmail@web60502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Ginger wrote: > > > > Hi Ginger > The site seems to be ok (just checked) and has been all week. You > could try clearing up your URL cache, in case that's a factor. > > Thanks, Carolyn. Blush time. What is a URL cache, and how does one go about clearing it? I kept the rest of your post and have tried clicking on the links you provided. No luck yet, but I'll try it a few more times. If the problem continues, I'll let you know. > > Thanks again, Ginger > > Hi Ginger The URL cache is where your computer remembers all the the website pages you have visited. It can get so full that it slows down or stops you accessing pages after a while if it isn't regularly emptied. I've got Norton Utilities installed on my PC and use that to run various clean-up routines every week to keep my computer running smoothly. I'm by no means a computer expert, though, so you probably need to ask someone how best to do it on your machine, there are so many packages and different options depending on your browser and type of computer. However, I have also emailed Paul and asked him to look in to what the problem is - most likely something to do with the IP address and his firewall. Hopefully he will get back to you today or tomorrow. Carolyn From willsonkmom at msn.com Fri Jan 21 20:02:37 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 20:02:37 -0000 Subject: Narrative style/good vs evil in HP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The door busts open and Potioncat bounds in yelling "Surpise!". Everyone looks up, and even the door at the head of the stairs can be heard squeaking open. Potioncat lifts the lid off a plate to reveal a rather lop-sided cake decorated around the edges in what must be golden snitches and on the top, no candles, but instead four sections, each with an unidentifiable blob: one green and silver, one red and yellow, one blue and yellow, and one yellow and black. "The four Houses?" someone suggests, uncertainly. Potioncat grins proudly.She doesn't notice Carolyn's stunned expression. "I didn't know what to get you. What you want most is for the reject numbers to go up, and for the coing to go faster. So I've come up with a new coding technique. Everyone should automatically reject the first 6 posts, without reading them. Then read the next four, coding or rejecting appropriately. Repeat for the next ten. Brilliant?" Carolyn stood, speechless, tears in her eyes. Potioncat took it to be gratitude. Fortunately a wiser staff member knew better, and provided a diversion,"Let's cut the cake!" And the room echoed with yells of: HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! > Carolyn > Facing a birthday tomorrow, so extra grumpy, apologies. From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Fri Jan 21 20:53:27 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 20:53:27 -0000 Subject: Potioncat's big idea... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Miss Carolyn Havisham had only dropped into the office on her way back from the restaurant out of a sense of duty. Considerably mellowed by a lazy afternoon in the local French bistro, she weaved along the pavement trying to decide on the age she would be for the coming year, the truth being too depressing to contemplate. She was looking forward to putting her feet up this evening and beginning the new biography of Machiavelli, so thoughtfully given to her by a friend, who on reflection probably knew her a little too well, and may have to be eliminated... But these pleasant stirrings of paranoia were rudely interrupted: > The door busts open and Potioncat bounds in yelling "Surpise!". > Everyone looks up, and even the door at the head of the stairs can > be heard squeaking open. > > > "I didn't know what to get you. What you want most is for the > reject numbers to go up, and for the coing to go faster. So I've > come up with a new coding technique. Everyone should automatically > reject the first 6 posts, without reading them. Then read the next > four, coding or rejecting appropriately. Repeat for the next ten. > Brilliant?" > > Carolyn stood, speechless, tears in her eyes. Potioncat took it to > be gratitude. Fortunately a wiser staff member knew better, and > provided a diversion,"Let's cut the cake!" > > And the room echoed with yells of: > > HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! > > 'How did she guess?' muttered Carolyn to herself, 'my secret technique..thought none of them would ever find out how I managed to stay so effortlessly ahead..' Considerably shaken, she took the proffered slice of cake, and munched..it was really quite good. She would have to think of a new cataloguing decree, of course, to try and head off discovery for a bit longer, but for now she simply beamed at them all. The wiser staff members feared the worst. xxC From spotthedungbeetle at hotmail.com Sat Jan 22 09:19:25 2005 From: spotthedungbeetle at hotmail.com (dungrollin) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 09:19:25 -0000 Subject: Bias Message-ID: Does anybody else find themselves biased against certain posters? I'm trying ever so hard not to be, but it's turning out to be more difficult than I imagined. It's got nothing to do with the opinions or arguments in the posts, it's more to do with style. I'm ending up coding a lot of posts from one person in particular to FAQ/adds nothing new, because (although they're not FAQs) they're mostly opinions (occasionally wild speculation) with no canon, and although they may be phrased differently to previous posts in the thread they... well, they don't add much, and wouldn't really help anybody searching for something useful. Or rather, they wouldn't help me if I were looking for something useful (but then I'd pass over all posts by this particular poster anyway). I think I'm being fair in the context of individual posts, but I'm a little concerned that I'm being unfair in a more general way, (I only suspect this bias because I find myself muttering under my breath every time I come across this person's posts) and it's possible that I'm overlooking significant points that they do make simply because the majority of what's written are opinions that have (surely) previously been expressed. But is it worth coding a post if there's only one decent sentence in it? The alternative in this particular case would (I think) generally be 'predictions, no canon' (since there's no 'opinions, no canon' category). Does anyone else find themselves biased against a particular person or style of post, and if so, how do you make sure you're being fair? While I'm at it - the distinction between 'mere agreement' and 'adds nothing new' has got me a mite confused. And do we code 'mere disagreement' under the former or the latter? Or, since they're all being rejected anyway, does it not matter? Dot Argh ? two very small children in the house so been up since 5. Unfortunately they're related to me so I can't demand they be removed. From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Sat Jan 22 17:11:07 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 17:11:07 -0000 Subject: Bias In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "dungrollin" wrote: > > Does anybody else find themselves biased against certain posters? > I'm trying ever so hard not to be, but it's turning out to be more > difficult than I imagined. < But is it worth coding a post if there's only one decent sentence in it? The alternative in this particular case would (I think) generally be 'predictions, no canon' (since there's no 'opinions, no canon' category). Does anyone else find themselves biased against a particular person or style of post, and if so, how do you make sure you're being fair? Carolyn: It is certainly tricky. To look at it another way, I know I give some people the benefit of the doubt because I'm amused, not because they are on-topic. There are also some people who repeatedly post runs of short, uninformed points to a series of posts as they come across them. I give them short shrift most of the time, whatever they are posting on. As I think I said someplace, the best perspective is to think how useful the reply is in the context of the thread. I am fairly hard on embedded itty-bitty reply posts that are very hard to read and don't yield very much value for the effort. The other thing to bear in mind is that since we are dealing with posts in quite small chunks at the moment (100 at a time mostly), there is a constant change of reviewer all the time. Another person down thread might be more lenient. That said, as Kelly has just raised here (and Jen has raised with me offlist), there is sometimes a big discrepancy in how things are getting coded; it would be best to bring that up if you come across examples, so we can discuss what the best approach is. > > While I'm at it - the distinction between 'mere agreement' and > 'adds nothing new' has got me a mite confused. And do we code 'mere disagreement' under the former or the latter? Or, since they're all being rejected anyway, does it not matter? Carolyn: Well, obviously it doesn't matter enormously, in the scheme of things, but I'd say the distinction was that 'mere agreement' was exactly that eg 'I agree'/'you said it'..type of comment, whereas 'adds nothing new' is more for posts which add no new ideas to the thread being coded, and probably also repeat points that have been made many times before. > > Dot > Argh ? two very small children in the house so been up since 5. > Unfortunately they're related to me so I can't demand they be > removed. I find my cats are very useful in these situations. They. Don't. Like. Babies. In reply to anxious enquiries from mothers about whether they will bite or scratch, I just say 'yes', unhelpfully, possibly also suggesting that they might have fleas. Result, horrified mother has to hang around protecting babies from potential molestation, and I can go and sit with the cats, usually somewhere warm and comfortable, and read the paper... From kkearney at students.miami.edu Sun Jan 23 04:40:35 2005 From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 04:40:35 -0000 Subject: Bias In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dot wrote: > Does anybody else find themselves biased against certain posters? > I'm trying ever so hard not to be, but it's turning out to be more > difficult than I imagined. It's got nothing to do with the opinions > or arguments in the posts, it's more to do with style. I'll take this moment to rant against a poster named Harriet... She doesn't seem to know how to use any punctuation except elipses ....... it's as though she's writing unrelated.. stream-of-conciuosness fragments... but she's not.. really... she just replaces all normal punctuation with strings of dots...... no single periods ... no commas ......... no semicolons.... horrible to read.... Luckily.. she hasn't posted anything of worth that I've seen... so I haven't had to worry that I was rejecting her posts for the wrong reasons............. -Kelly From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 13:30:30 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:30:30 -0000 Subject: UPDATE, Sunday January 23rd Message-ID: PROGRESS We have now coded/allocated for coding 46135 posts, and of these have actually coded 44516, and rejected 24549 (55%). This week, with 11 people coding, we did 1181 posts. CODING ERRORS Could you take a look at the reject status on: 36640, 36603 - Kathysnow 36831, 36834 - Dot 29256, 29280, 29273, 29277 - Eva 37135, 37077 - Jen 37431, 37432, 37422 - Debbie 37608, 37609 - Ginger NEW CATEGORIES 1.1.1.5.3 Responsibility 1.3.1.2.1 ANTITHESIS 1.3.5.4 Longbottom torture 1.4.1 Character development From willsonkmom at msn.com Sun Jan 23 14:21:59 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:21:59 -0000 Subject: batch done Message-ID: Darn the time difference! I'd hoped to have my complete batch done before the update. It's done now. Send more. I've come across several posts that deal with authority and characters respect of/disrespect for authority. Mostly it has to do with Snape, but also with Percy. So far I coded it under respect, (I think) but I was wondering if we needed another code. Also came across a few posts that had to do with Ern and Stan, but Ern doesn't have his own code. Also marrige in general, which I coded to households. I've also hit upon a poster I hate to read and often reject, but I've found the responses to her posts are generally very good. So in once way, her ideas are saved. Kathy (Potioncat) From quigonginger at yahoo.com Sun Jan 23 16:20:02 2005 From: quigonginger at yahoo.com (quigonginger) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 16:20:02 -0000 Subject: the world spins the other way Message-ID: I too tried to get my batch done before the update, but I was thinking that the world spins the other way, and that Carolyn would have be up before the cows had even left to beat me. (In other words, I figured the time difference backwards.) Please, miss, may I have some more? Re: bias. I admit there are certain posts that I have seen recently that I hope I never have to code. Mostly because I don't have a clue what they are about as they are so far above my head. I hope to be fair should the time come. But I know what you mean! Take care everyone! Ginger PS to Carolyn: There were a few Tabouli posts that didn't really add anything, but I kept them for posterity as they were TAGS. Is that OK? From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Sun Jan 23 18:30:36 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 18:30:36 -0000 Subject: Bias/More posts for Potioncat and Ginger In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "quigonginger" wrote: > > Please, miss, may I have some more? Of course! Here you go: 38401-38500 Kathy (Potioncat): >Darn the time difference! I'd hoped to have my complete batch done >before the update. It's done now. Send more. And another helping for you too: 38501-38600 Such enthusiasm on a Sunday morning, very heartening... Kathy: I've come across several posts that deal with authority and characters respect of/disrespect for authority. Mostly it has to do with Snape, but also with Percy. So far I coded it under respect, (I think) but I was wondering if we needed another code. Carolyn: Maybe 1.1.1.5.1 Following/breaking rules would be useful? >Also came across a few posts that had to do with Ern and Stan, but >Ern doesn't have his own code. Carolyn: Ok, will add Ern.. >Also marrige in general, which I coded to households. >I've also hit upon a poster I hate to read and often reject, but >I've found the responses to her posts are generally very good. So in >once way, her ideas are saved. Carolyn: That's what I tend to find, that there is no need to save some tiresome posts, when they are widely quoted in much better replies. One way round it. > > PS to Carolyn: There were a few Tabouli posts that didn't really add anything, but I kept them for posterity as they were TAGS. Is that > OK? Sounds Ok, I let Tabouli get away with a lot myself! From willsonkmom at msn.com Sun Jan 23 20:45:11 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:45:11 -0000 Subject: Bias/More posts for Potioncat and Ginger In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Kathy: > I've come across several posts that deal with authority and > characters respect of/disrespect for authority. Mostly it has to do > with Snape, but also with Percy. So far I coded it under respect, > (I think) but I was wondering if we needed another code. > > Carolyn: > Maybe 1.1.1.5.1 Following/breaking rules would be useful? > > > Well, that didn't fit in these two cases. 37540 and 37541. Here's a bit from 37540 written by Porphyria: "But he doesn't care about any of that a bit, he's just trying to make a point about how little they know about werewolves so he can justify assigning the essay. And he expects to be obeyed. So when Hermione again takes him literally as if he really misunderstood where they were in the book and as if he really wanted a demonstration of her own knowledge, this he interprets as an interruption and an undermining of his authority. Every time he snaps at her for being a know-it-all it's always in a charged situation in which he experiences it as a rejection of his authority. She doesn't respond to him in the way he expects to be treated." The other post had to do with whether or not a particular character respected authority and why or why not. Between the two posts I used: trust/mistrust, teaching methods, and character development. From stevejjen at earthlink.net Mon Jan 24 05:16:28 2005 From: stevejjen at earthlink.net (Jen Reese) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 05:16:28 -0000 Subject: TBAY: How were the TBAYs chosen? Message-ID: Carolyn Havisham is sitting quietly at her desk, pumps off and feet resting on her enormous antique desk. She reads from a book by Machiavelli, sniggering occasionally and reaching for leftover birthday sweets between the turning of pages. What plans she has in store after reading Machiavelli are unclear at present, but she certainly appears delighted by the content. The door opens quietly, so quietly Carolyn jumps a little when she notices Jen out of the corner of her eye. "Hmm..my senses must be dulled by the sugar..I didn't even hear her approach," Carolyn murmers to herself. Swinging her legs off the desk and assuming her usual regal posture, Carolyn quirks an eyebrow up in response to Jen's presence. "Yes?" "Well, you see...it's our TBAY. Mine and Boyd's. It appears to be, well, missing from the list. Surely this is only an error! I mean, BADD ANGST isn't LOLLIPOPS or MAGIC DISHWASHER material to say the least, but certainly we deserve a mention? If DARRIN GET A LIFE, DUDE and SIDS (Sirius Is Dead Sexy) get their day in the sun, BADD ANGST should be allowed to rest on the beach under the Dumbledore umbrella!" Jen finishes at least an octave higher than she started, her eyes flashing a bit in Carolyn's direction. "Oh, and while we're at it, I participated in DRIBBLE as well to a certain extent, a damn fine theory, if not completely filled out. Well, what say you?" Carolyn stares at Jen, noticing that her scabbard is thankfully empty, the sword undoubtedly lying in Jen's closet until an emergency arises. As to whether this would constitute an emergency or not, Carolyn is unsure. "Ahem, yes...." Jen, who will understand if her own TBAY contributions need to be axed, but is curious how the TBAYs were chosen nonetheless. From boyd.t.smythe at fritolay.com Mon Jan 24 15:06:21 2005 From: boyd.t.smythe at fritolay.com (Smythe, Boyd T {FLNA}) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 09:06:21 -0600 Subject: Moldy Cake & Happily Rejecting Posts Message-ID: Happy (Belated) Birthday, Carolyn! And Potioncat, that was some terrific cake, even if it was sitting out all weekend! That light layer of purple frosting was just *bliss*. Wait a sec, there's no purple in the school colors.... Um, better wrap up this post quickly, then. Carolyn wrote: >There are also some people who repeatedly post runs of short, uninformed points to a series of posts as they come across them. I give them short shrift most of the time, whatever they are posting on. As I think I said someplace, the best perspective is to think how useful the reply is in the context of the thread. I am fairly hard on embedded itty-bitty reply posts that are very hard to read and don't yield very much value for the effort.< Me too! Also, I agree. It's tough to reject a borderline post, but personally I'd like the Catalogue much better for research if fewer marginal posts are included. Should we cater more to researchers' needs or posters' potential feelings of rejection? I think the former. Besides, most of those stringy posts are from frequent posters, so they'll be included occasionally anyway. While I rarely reject a good post, I think we should be finding more rejects as we continue, since most topics have been well-dissected by the 30,000th post. The greatest exceptions, of course, would be the growing populations of alternative/subversive readings and discussions of new materials (OoP, JKR quotes, et al). So I'm consciously trying to improve my reject rate. How's that for a birthday gift, Mistress Carolyn? --boyd Penicillin comes from mold, I'm told, so will old cake cure my cold? From boyd.t.smythe at fritolay.com Mon Jan 24 15:23:50 2005 From: boyd.t.smythe at fritolay.com (Smythe, Boyd T {FLNA}) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 09:23:50 -0600 Subject: How were the TBAYs chosen? Message-ID: Jen wrote: >"Well, you see...it's our TBAY. Mine and Boyd's. It appears to be, well, missing from the list. Surely this is only an error! I mean, BADD ANGST isn't LOLLIPOPS or MAGIC DISHWASHER material to say the least, but certainly we deserve a mention? If DARRIN GET A LIFE, DUDE and SIDS (Sirius Is Dead Sexy) get their day in the sun, BADD ANGST should be allowed to rest on the beach under the Dumbledore umbrella!"< Um, yeah! What Jen said, except louder and from ME! I'm so angry I could just stop coding for a while today, which, while it would have no discernible effect on the Catalogue, would be an appropriately vain and senseless way to demonstrate my level of mortification over this outrageous discombobulation of my scruples, or some such. Actually, I just figured that either: A) you don't like us, or B) you don't like Jen. I prefer B, but I feel that there might be another option...tough to pin down, for some reason. Oh! there it is. Clearly, it is option C) you didn't get to it yet. Right? I'm right, right? Seriously, I can take it. Just give it to me straight. --boyd Actually feeling very little BADD ANGST over this, since an author can merely put the idea out there, but can't control the reaction of the uninformed (MD-philic) masses. :) From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Mon Jan 24 17:26:38 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 17:26:38 -0000 Subject: How were the TBAYs chosen? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Jen ranted: "Well, you see...it's our TBAY. Mine and Boyd's. It appears to be, well, missing from the list. Surely this is only an error! I mean, BADD ANGST isn't LOLLIPOPS or MAGIC DISHWASHER material to say the least, but certainly we deserve a mention? "Oh, and while we're at it, I participated in DRIBBLE as well to a certain extent, a damn fine theory, if not completely filled out. Well, what say you?" Boyd agonised: > Actually, I just figured that either: A) you don't like us, or B) you don't like Jen. I prefer B, but I feel that there might be another option...tough to pin down, for some reason. > > Oh! there it is. Clearly, it is option C) you didn't get to it yet. Right? I'm right, right? > Carolyn (giggling helplessly, despite a bad Monday) replies: Oh, the explanation is simple enough - sort of option C). When I put the theory categories on to the list, I was working from a version of Inish Alley that I printed off on 28th August 2003. Since then it's been updated a lot with BADD ANGST, DRIBBLE and a great deal of other nonsense...er, insightful and *very important* contributions. I have just printed off the current version, and will now comb through it for new acronyms, and put them ALL on the list... you knew there'd be a catch. When we've done coding [what, there is an end sometime?], the idea is that we'll go through the list and those theories which sink without trace, ie only get one or two citations will get folded back into some relevant category, to try and keep the search criteria manageable. (People will still be able to find them by typing the name into a free text search box, they just won't be dignified by their own heading). So you have been warned! Stomps off, muttering...all these Americans, right to free speech, be quoting the whotsit Amendment next...boil 'em in oil over here in the UK, no questions asked.. From willsonkmom at msn.com Mon Jan 24 18:33:08 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 18:33:08 -0000 Subject: How were the TBAYs chosen? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Carolyn stomps off, muttering...all these Americans, right to free speech, be quoting the whotsit Amendment next...boil 'em in oil over here in the UK, no questions asked.. Potioncat looks up from her squinty eyed search of the dusty spines in the bookcase, and watches as the door to the office closes. "Americans? Free Speech? whosit Amendment?...this isn't Kansas is it? I don't "have" to let every crazy poster have their say?! Yippee! I can reject without guilt!" She does a little dance, sees the entire room of coders are staring at her, and goes back to reading the book titles. "Not in America, well that explains why I can't understand a thing anyone says in T-BAY." she mutters. And continues looking for a book by Philip Nell...or was it Kell? My batch of codes begins with a thread about Philip Nell (or was it Kell? I was distracted in T-BAY) Does anyone know anything about that? It looks pretty extensive, and I thought I'd ask before I got too far. Code 38502 (Oh, yeah, Ginger, it actually starts in your batch.) Kathy From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Mon Jan 24 19:58:28 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 19:58:28 -0000 Subject: Free speech/more TBAYS/Philip Nel/authority In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" wrote: > >>this isn't Kansas is it? I don't "have" to let every crazy poster have their say?! Yippee! I can reject without guilt!" She does a little dance, sees the entire room of coders are staring at her, and goes back to reading the book titles. << Carolyn couldn't possibly comment. Wouldn't dare. Not At All. >>"Not in America, well that explains why I can't understand a thing anyone says in T-BAY." she mutters. << Carolyn hates to point out that most of these TBAYs were invented by Americans. Go figure, as I think the saying goes. Anyway, you can now blame Jen and Boyd for the following being added to the list: (SHH) JAM TAKES BIBS AIRSHIP FANCY BADD ANGST BADD ANGST - Part II BARKEEP BB GUN DRIBBLE GRIMS KITTENS & RAINBOWS MAD OCELOTS another version of PACMAN PINESAP PS I LOVE ME LETS KISS SINAS SSHARP OWW TOUCHE WARPS WINCH WINDOW SILLS BTW (purely for reference, you understand), could one of you tell me whether a US 'slap upside the head' might mean the same thing as a UK 'clip round the ear' ? I've always wondered. Does the US phrase sort of equate to 'doh, what an idiot' or something tougher ? The English phrase is a bit sharper, as in 'that lad deserves a clip round the ear', ie a pretty sharp (actual) slap (before they banned it). >And continues looking for a book by Philip Nell...or was it Kell? > My batch of codes begins with a thread about Philip Nell (or was it > Kell? I was distracted in T-BAY) Does anyone know anything about > that? It looks pretty extensive, and I thought I'd ask before I got > too far. Code 38502 (Oh, yeah, Ginger, it actually starts in your > batch.) Ah, now, Philip Nel is from, erm, Kansas is he not, a professor of English I believe. He asked the list a lot of good questions at one point, which they had a fine time answering. I think the elvish folk would find it helpful to have these marked up, so I am going to add a Philip Nel code down in the Admin section. (They have a plan to revive some of the questions I think for the main list). Ginger could you note this too.. I've only just thought of it, sorry. > Kathy: > I've come across several posts that deal with authority and > characters respect of/disrespect for authority. Mostly it has to do > with Snape, but also with Percy. So far I coded it under respect, > (I think) but I was wondering if we needed another code. > > Carolyn: > Maybe 1.1.1.5.1 Following/breaking rules would be useful? > >Kathy: >Well, that didn't fit in these two cases. 37540 and 37541. Here's a bit from 37540 written by Porphyria: >Between the two posts I used: trust/mistrust, teaching methods, and >character development. Still thinking about this one. Here's some metaphysics for those that fancy it. Is the notion of respecting or disrespecting authority a moral question, perhaps even a sin or a virtue? Or might you classify it under freewill, choice and fate ? And what would you call it anyway, if you had a new heading? Carolyn Who doesn't see why she has to do all the thinking... From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com Mon Jan 24 20:18:46 2005 From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 20:18:46 +0000 Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Free speech/more TBAYS/Philip Nel/authority In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26C9AC5D-6E45-11D9-9869-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com> > > Still thinking about this one. Here's some metaphysics for those that > fancy it. Is the notion of respecting or disrespecting authority a > moral question, perhaps even a sin or a virtue? Or might you classify > it under freewill, choice and fate ? And what would you call it > anyway, if you had a new heading? > > Carolyn > Who doesn't see why she has to do all the thinking... > > It's moral. T'ain't even metaphysics, it's derived from legal precedent. Respect presupposes an ethical/moral behaviour by the one respected. One has a moral obligation to ignore or disobey an illegal or immoral/unethical order. If you don't you can be prosecuted. Free will is not accepted, only the obligation to do right. That's what the Nuremberg Trials were about. And so, perhaps were the trial scenes in the Pensieve. But Bagman slid out from under. Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 989 bytes Desc: not available URL: From spotthedungbeetle at hotmail.com Tue Jan 25 01:48:00 2005 From: spotthedungbeetle at hotmail.com (dungrollin) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 01:48:00 -0000 Subject: Finished Message-ID: The cataloguing office was quiet. The muted chatter of mouse-clicks played a delicate (though rather avant-garde) duet with the crickets outside. Occasionally someone would snort, and mutter "Reject..." One of the new members of staff had barricaded herself into a dark corner. Arranged along the edges of her desk and piled several feet high, was a collection of cages, populated by an assortment of small creeping things. A lone imp sat mournfully in a tank on the corner, munching half-heartedly on a moth. The new woman stood up and yawned and stretched. She had something indescribably unpleasant under her fingernails, which no amount of scrubbing would dislodge, and she gave off an aroma faintly reminiscent of silage, almost (but not quite) masked by the scent of ashtray. "Crikey, is that the time?" She turned back to her desk, swept up the remnants of the cockroach clusters she'd been dissecting, and threw them into the Imp's tank. Then scribbled "Mostly Blaberus discoidalis" on a scrap of paper for future reference. Clutching a water and bubblebath damaged paperback that she had been attempting to iron back into shape, she stumbled over to Miss Havisham's desk, where she scrawled the words "Finished; corrections/more please, Dung." on the back of something she hoped wasn't important. Miss would find it in the morning. She gazed around blearily at the assorted weaponry in the office, hoping that she'd soon have mastered enough of the basics to upgrade her toothpick to something a little more dramatic. It was far too slow and inefficient. With a tuberculitic-sounding cough, she began to roll yet another cigarette, and walk slowly to the door. Pausing briefly, to admire the FEATHERBOAS on the hat stand and wish you didn't have to prove yourself in combat to get one, she ambled out and headed for home. Seconds later, the door swung open again, and she re-entered, to say "By the way, thanks for the reassurance on the subject of bias, I'm glad it's not just me," to the office at large. Before staring into space for a moment, remembering that she was meant to be going home, patting her pockets in search of a lighter, and finally making it out of the door. From elfundeb at comcast.net Tue Jan 25 11:43:08 2005 From: elfundeb at comcast.net (Debbie) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 11:43:08 -0000 Subject: Free speech/more TBAYS/Philip Nel/authority In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carolyn: > BTW (purely for reference, you understand), could one of you tell me > whether a US 'slap upside the head' might mean the same thing as a > UK 'clip round the ear' ? I've always wondered. Does the US phrase > sort of equate to 'doh, what an idiot' or something tougher ? The > English phrase is a bit sharper, as in 'that lad deserves a clip > round the ear', ie a pretty sharp (actual) slap (before they banned > it). You mean that's not an English phrase? > Ah, now, Philip Nel is from, erm, Kansas is he not, a professor of > English I believe. He asked the list a lot of good questions at one > point, which they had a fine time answering. I think the elvish folk > would find it helpful to have these marked up, so I am going to add a > Philip Nel code down in the Admin section. (They have a plan to > revive some of the questions I think for the main list). Professor of Children's Lit, who has taught a course on HP and written a study guide, which is where the questions came from, though he did post to the list for awhile in late 2001. The plan is to revive the questions with an OOP/HBP twist, As you code these, if you remember and could point me to any good post-OOP threads on the same topic, I would be greatly appreciative. We'll also be looking for discussion leader volunteers. > Still thinking about this one. Here's some metaphysics for those that > fancy it. Is the notion of respecting or disrespecting authority a > moral question, perhaps even a sin or a virtue? Or might you classify > it under freewill, choice and fate ? And what would you call it > anyway, if you had a new heading? >From my corner of the universe, it's a moral question. Not a sin or virtue because the circumstances and degree of disrespect that would be considered virtuous depends on which corner of the universe you happen to be in. And not under free will, choice or fate because we can always choose to respect or disrespect, whether or not the choice is right or ethical or virtuous. And I'm finished with my last batch as well. I, too, tried to finish before the update, but discovered that attempting to finish an assignment at midnight on Saturday after a pleasant evening enjoying delicious food, good conversation and fine wine, followed by a walk home through fresh-fallen snow, is not a good thing. Debbie who can't have a piece of birthday cake until she improves her reject rate From stevejjen at earthlink.net Tue Jan 25 15:26:25 2005 From: stevejjen at earthlink.net (Jen Reese) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:26:25 -0000 Subject: Finished In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Hmmmm... what IS this? Must be one of Hagrid's, erm, *special* creatures." Jen pokes around the high wall of cages surrounding Dung's desk while Potioncat the Fearless attempts to make friends with a suspcious looking toad. "HAHAHAHA--- look at this! Must be Dung's favorite reject code, 'Mostly Blaberus Discoidalis'....say, you think Carolyn would add this one?" Dung said: > "By the way, thanks for the reassurance on the subject of bias, > I'm glad it's not just me," to the office at large." Just putting my two-knuts in here. So far I haven't run across a particular poster who shows up with irritating regularity, but then I've only coded 200 posts. But it does seem hard to avoid favoritism, you know? Even if I haven't read the name at the top of the post, and I try not to for the most part, certain posters just ring true for me. The problem is sorting out whether the content would ring true for most posters or just me. Generally I then try to determine whether the argument is solid, with canon, even for a person who wouldn't necessarily agree with the personal slant of the piece. But cream rises to the top--there's no stopping that! Some people consistently craft beautiful, solid arguments, and even though I may not agree with a whit of it, those posters end up getting almost every post coded. I guess that's my bias, now that I think it through, posts that are personal opinion only. It took me awhile to get the "canon arguments only" part down as a poster, so I give people benefit of the doubt if they include any canon to back up a point. But yeah, if it's purely personal opinion....'Mostly Blaberus Discoidalis'. Jen, thanking Carolyn for her mercy with BADD ANGST and Captain Remnant for his vote of confidence ('she does *too* like me' ). From willsonkmom at msn.com Tue Jan 25 15:29:33 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:29:33 -0000 Subject: Free speech/more TBAYS/Philip Nel/authority In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >Kathy: > >Well, that didn't fit in these two cases. 37540 and 37541. > Here's a bit from 37540 written by Porphyria: > > >Between the two posts I used: trust/mistrust, teaching methods, and > >character development. > > Still thinking about this one. Here's some metaphysics for those that > fancy it. Is the notion of respecting or disrespecting authority a > moral question, perhaps even a sin or a virtue? Or might you classify > it under freewill, choice and fate ? And what would you call it > anyway, if you had a new heading? > > Carolyn > Who doesn't see why she has to do all the thinking... Kathy here: Well, after those two posts I didn't have any more that addressed authority. Would adding a new code make coding easier or more difficult? Would it make the catalogue better, or not? I would think we'll run into authority issues in OoP when Harry goes to his hearing and when we meet Umbridge. But if that sort of situation already fits another code, I don't know that it would be helpful to add authority. I don't know if others have this happen, but I'll finish one post, and move on. Then a post or two later run across a code that would have fit that earlier one, but I hadn't thought of at the time. It's hard to keep them all in mind. Thoughts? Kathy From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Tue Jan 25 16:19:50 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 16:19:50 -0000 Subject: Strange smells/more posts for everyone/morals & authority Message-ID: There was an odd smell in the office this morning; very odd. Carolyn sniffed suspiciously..wasn't Kneasy, definitely, though the ashtray could've been him. However, she knew for definite that he was up to no good ridiculing Jo's pathetic baddies over on TOC, and she could wait as long as she pleased for *his* posting assignment, like that was anything new. What's more he'd left a cryptic message overnight, pinned to the front door with a dagger <>>.. a fine expert on respecting/disrespecting authority he was... With a snort of annoyance she looked at her desk. On her very best de luxe copy of 'MAGIC DISHWASHER, the complete works, more to come eventually, promise. MDDT 2003' was written "Finished; corrections/more please, Dung." Surely the silly girl hadn't really attempted to bring MD up to date all by herself...enthusiasm was one thing; foolhardy bravery another. Hastily, Carolyn turned through the hallowed pages, which fortunately seemed intact, despite a number of rude comments inserted by Bad!Boyd one idle day in the office when she wasn't looking. She looked over at Dot's desk, where her cats were looking in fascination at the collection of crawling things, "Mostly Blaberus discoidalis" said a note..Carolyn paused, and smiled. Dot had a real future here, she felt (they'd have to negotiate over the fingernail situation, obviously). She wrote underneath: "Interesting, a tropical species then? How do they source them at Honeydukes? Do you reckon it's another dodgy import/export deal dreamt up by Mundungus? New assignment: 38601-38700". Carolyn picked up another note from Debbie: (on 'slap upside the head'): >>You mean that's not an English phrase?<< Erm..new to me if it is..could be wrong.. (suspects trap..) (on respect for authority): >>From my corner of the universe, it's a moral question. << Ok, capitalising quickly on an unusual level of agreement between Kneasy and an Elf, I will hastily create a sub-category on respecting authority under 1.1.1.5 Morality vs immorality. Irony duly noted by all parties I hope. Then, having invoked these two mighty authorities, Potioncat, if you please says: >>Well, after those two posts I didn't have any more that addressed authority. Would adding a new code make coding easier or more difficult?<< Carolyn fixed Potioncat with her best McGonagall expression, and considered whether to make her go back over all the posts she had so far done... Jen rightly said >>('she does *too* like me' ).>> and not just for the flashing wit inherent in DRIBBLE, my dear. You will find this comment rather relevant in due course, and I thank you for it: >>But cream rises to the top--there's no stopping that! Some people consistently craft beautiful, solid arguments, and even though I may not agree with a whit of it, those posters end up getting almost every post coded.<< Here's some more: 38801-38900. Finally, Debbie concluded: >>And I'm finished with my last batch as well. I, too, tried to finish before the update, but discovered that attempting to finish an assignment at midnight on Saturday after a pleasant evening enjoying delicious food, good conversation and fine wine, followed by a walk home through fresh-fallen snow, is not a good thing.>> < Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "carolynwhite2" wrote: > > > There was an odd smell in the office this morning; very odd. Carolyn > sniffed suspiciously..wasn't Kneasy, definitely, though the ashtray > could've been him. Huh! Now if yoy want to know why Kneasy adds atmosphere, that certain 'tone', read Kiplings poem "The Betrothed" - it tells of someone else who got his priorities right.... From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Tue Jan 25 20:16:54 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 20:16:54 -0000 Subject: The HBP? Elkins does it again... Message-ID: In a completely exceptional post [38398], in which Elkins surpasses even herself [warning - very long], she eventually reasons her way to this point, which has suddenly made me think he could be the HBP after all, but for quite the reverse reasons suggested by most people. Powerful stuff: Would Neville with a restored memory become more like Harry? Would this necessarily be a Good Thing? People who believe that Neville has a memory charm often speculate that this charm will eventually be removed, and that when it does, Neville will "come into his own." He will be able to access previously-suppressed reservoirs of magical power; he will gain self- confidence; he will become SUPER-Neville. He will go out and kick DE butt. He will bring honor to the family name; he will exhibit Proper Pure-blooded Wizarding Pride. He will become at last a True Warrior- Spirited Gryffindor. I lie awake sometimes at night, fearing that something like this might indeed be the author's intent. Because if it is, then I won't view it as a triumph for the forces of Good at all. I will view it as a horrible horrible tragedy. In terms of their respective coming-of-age stories, Harry and Neville seem to me to represent mirrored archetypes. Harry's story is that of the orphan boy revealed to be the heir to the throne. His adoptive family had denied him the knowledge of the potency of his legacy: his magical power, his financial wealth, the social status that he holds by default within the wizarding world. His story then, the coming of age story that accompanies his own particular archetype, is one of acceptance, of "coming into ones own" by proving oneself worthy of the legacy that one has inherited, and by learning to accept that legacy's negative aspects along with its positive ones. Neville, on the other hand, I tend to read as a representation of the opposing archetype: the prince renunciate, the abdicator or the apostate. Neville has always known that he is (or that he is "supposed to be") a wizard. He has always known that his family is old and proud and well-respected, that they are "pureblood." He has always known that his father was a kind of a war hero, albeit a martyred one. And he has always been aware -- far too well aware, I'd say -- of the role that he is expected to play within his society. And he's running away from it just as fast as he can. His story, the coming of age story that accompanies Neville's type, is one of renunciation, rather than of acceptance, of "coming into ones own" by finding the strength to *reject* the legacy and to forge instead a new destiny of ones own choosing. From kakearney at comcast.net Wed Jan 26 04:59:56 2005 From: kakearney at comcast.net (corinthum) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 04:59:56 -0000 Subject: Another request for posts Message-ID: All these new people are being far too productive... making me look bad. But I finally finished my batch of posts (and corrected all those Worthwhile Series posts). So, a new set, if you please. -Kelly, who needs to move "Great Expectations" to the top of her "Classics She Should Have Read By Now But Hasn't" list so she can figure out exactly why Carolyn has taken on this new persona (that is its source, isn't it?) From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Wed Jan 26 09:52:12 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 09:52:12 -0000 Subject: Another request for posts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "corinthum" wrote: > > All these new people are being far too productive... making me look > bad. But I finally finished my batch of posts (and corrected all > those Worthwhile Series posts). So, a new set, if you please. > > -Kelly, who needs to move "Great Expectations" to the top of her > "Classics She Should Have Read By Now But Hasn't" list so she can > figure out exactly why Carolyn has taken on this new persona (that is > its source, isn't it?) Hi Kelly Here's a new batch: 38901-39000 I'm handing out batches of 100 at a time at the moment, as they are sometimes complicated and long - that one of Elkins' last night took me 45 min to read and code alone! (Not that I minded). Now, fellow MD enthusiast, can you watch out for early signs of MDDT getting going and alert me? I am in the process of trying to write a guide to coding it.. Carolyn - definitely more Fforde than Dickens in inspiration, but the spoof makes no sense without reading the original. From stevejjen at earthlink.net Wed Jan 26 17:26:52 2005 From: stevejjen at earthlink.net (Jen Reese) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:26:52 -0000 Subject: Another request for posts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carolyn: > I'm handing out batches of 100 at a time at the moment, as they are > sometimes complicated and long - that one of Elkins' last night took > me 45 min to read and code alone! (Not that I minded). > > Now, fellow MD enthusiast, can you watch out for early signs of MDDT > getting going and alert me? I am in the process of trying to write a > guide to coding it.. I coded a great post from Grey Wolfe yesterday, #38213, that was almost Trelawney-like in its vision of what would happen in OOTP. Anyway, there were undercurrents of Spying Game philosophy in it. And wasn't Grey Wolfe part of the original MD team? I marked it as my first Fanatastic Post because some of his predictions were so right on the money. Jen, who wouldn't exactly call herself an MD enthusiast but who admires the genius of Pip!Squeak et. al., nonetheless. From talisman22457 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 26 18:55:08 2005 From: talisman22457 at yahoo.com (Talisman) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 18:55:08 -0000 Subject: Strange smells/more posts for everyone/morals & authority In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "arrowsmithbt" wrote:> > Huh! Now if yoy want to know why Kneasy adds atmosphere, that >certain 'tone', read Kiplings poem "The Betrothed" - it tells of >someone else who got his priorities right.... "Poppycock," quips Talisman, opening a window and pumping the Febreze bottle strenuously. "Old Rudyard was merely illuminating the debasing nature of tobacco addiction. I'll see your Kipling and raise you an Edna St. Vincent Millay, `I Being Born a Woman and Distressed.'" Your Carolyness: I'm back at Chez Talisman and resuming duties. From arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com Wed Jan 26 19:20:02 2005 From: arrowsmithbt at btconnect.com (Barry Arrowsmith) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 19:20:02 +0000 Subject: [HPFGU-Catalogue] Re: Strange smells/more posts for everyone/morals & authority In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47406B3B-6FCF-11D9-9203-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com> On 26 Jan 2005, at 18:55, Talisman wrote: > > --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "arrowsmithbt" > wrote:> > > Huh! Now if yoy want to know why Kneasy adds atmosphere, that > >certain 'tone', read Kiplings poem "The Betrothed" - it tells of > >someone else who got his priorities right.... > > "Poppycock," quips Talisman, opening a window and pumping the > Febreze bottle strenuously.? "Old Rudyard was merely illuminating > the debasing nature of tobacco addiction.? I'll see your Kipling and > raise you an Edna St. Vincent Millay, `I Being Born a Woman and > Distressed.'"? > > Your Carolyness: I'm back at Chez Talisman and resuming duties. > > "A fool there was and he made his prayer (Even as you and I!) To a rag and a bone and a hank of hair (We called her the woman who did not care), But the fool he called her his lady fair (Even as you and I!) Oh the years we waste and the tears we waste And the work of our head and hand, Belong to the woman who did not know (And now we know she could never know) And did not understand." With apt applicability it's entitled "The Vampire" Good old Kipples! Sadly neglected, but it seems his verse is making a come-back. So far as I'm concerned it's never been away. Kneasy sniffs the gin bottle and rolls another gasper. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1510 bytes Desc: not available URL: From talisman22457 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 26 23:28:05 2005 From: talisman22457 at yahoo.com (Talisman) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 23:28:05 -0000 Subject: Strange smells/more posts for everyone/morals & authority In-Reply-To: <47406B3B-6FCF-11D9-9203-000A9577CB94@btconnect.com> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith wrote: > With apt applicability it's entitled "The Vampire" > > Good old Kipples! > Kneasy sniffs the gin bottle and rolls another gasper. Ah, The Vampire. Well, at least our Kippy has stopped bellowing about his preference for sucking on turgid, weedy, lingams (something he apparently confused with a stingy assessment of women) and now he simply bemoans the fate common to all megalomaniacs--of whatever gender--gross under appreciation. Okay, he was never properly appreciated. I'll bet she had a great set of "fangs," though, and that he got a good few compensatory nibbles along the way. Hey,when he needed to bask in paeans of praise, or at least some sort of shouting, he could always whip out his superlative cigar. So, to your poor, misused Kipling, I'll play another Millay. Let's try "An Ancient Gesture." Not as fun as the prior offering, but a tiresome little cautionary tale about what the "understanding woman, gets. You know, the one who thinks he's some sort of...well...epic hero, while he's off shagging Circe. And to think she had a whole room packed with suitors just waiting for her whistle. I thought, as I wiped my eyes on the corner of my apron: Penelope did this too. And more than once: you can't keep weaving all day And undoing it all through the night; Your arms get tired, and the back of your neck gets tight; And along towards morning, when you think it will never be light, And your husband has been gone, and you don't know where, for years. Suddenly you burst into tears; There is simply nothing else to do. And I thought, as I wiped my eyes on the corner of my apron: This is an ancient gesture, authentic, antique, In the very best tradition, classic, Greek; Ulysses did this too. But only as a gesture, -a gesture which implied To the assembled throng that he was much too moved to speak. He learned it from Penelope... Penelope, who really cried. Sniff. Still, we'll agree that--sprinkled here and there among the vasty throngs--there are some individuals of rare pressing; some delightfully sinister ambrosias requiring a peculiar palate to penetrate and enjoy the full bouquet of dusky spice and fetid backwash, sweetened by noble rot, that rounds the aging fruit. I'll give Kipling that. Just not his claim of masculine exclusivity. In any event, I have a nicely inappropriate theory to slap up against your TOC "Best of Enemies" series. So, I'm off to derogate whatever duties assail me in favor of another libelous attack. Current working Title: D.E.C.E.I.V.E. M.E. A.G.A.I.N., P.O.O.K.I.E., you do it so well. Talisman, who has things she likes to sniff and roll, too. From kakearney at comcast.net Wed Jan 26 23:42:33 2005 From: kakearney at comcast.net (corinthum) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 23:42:33 -0000 Subject: Another request for posts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carolyn wrote: > Now, fellow MD enthusiast, can you watch out for early signs of MDDT > getting going and alert me? I am in the process of trying to write a > guide to coding it.. The official beginning of MD isn't until post 39662, so I won't be hitting it in this batch of posts (darn). But I'll let you know if I encounter any precursors. -Kelly, who will take any snow you don't want; I haven't seen any in person for two years From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Thu Jan 27 01:07:22 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 01:07:22 -0000 Subject: Coding up the Dishwasher & new hanging offence... Message-ID: Right, I've just spent an exhaustive time in the real archives, ie the horror that is Yahoo!Mort, and I have forced it to yield up a lot of numbers relating to MD. What follows isn't complete probably, in terms of sub-threads, but nevertheless gives due warning of the scale of the thing. A lot of people here know a lot about MD, so I won't over-introduce, but the key things to grasp if you have never descended into the depths of this theory are: - it wasn't called Magic Dishwasher at first, or for some time - it is a theory in (at least) three parts, the first two published before OoP, the third after - the authors are Pip (Bluesqueak), Grey Wolf and (later) Melody (malady579), often known as MDDT (the MD defence team) - the central theme is that Dumbledore is organising an immense undercover war against Voldemort, hence the main acronyms are under DD Beyond this, you simply have to get to grips with it by reading (at a minimum) the following four posts: - 39662 (Spying Game I) - 39854 (a recap of arguments so far by Grey Wolf) - 40044 (Spying Game II) - 81010 (post-OoP update) I'm really not joking about this, because not only do the first two parts of the theory dominate the list between 39662-40894, with over 100 posts directly discussing the theory itself, but the theory had a huge impact on many other theories from then on. No one will be able to escape the thread, best to get to grips from the start. Arguments and counter-arguments about it continually break out in all sorts of places from then to the present. In some senses, the current repetitive arguments going on even now about Snape and Dumbledore's alleged child abuse are a legacy, in that they continue to argue whether end justifies means, and mostly don't dispute any more whether or not Dumbledore has a plan that has been in play for many years. So, to save money on time-wasting trials, and get maximum value out of the length of rope I have purchased, cataloguing edict #20708938397983 is that everyone will sit down with a nice cup of tea and a biscuit (as recommended by Pip), and read....and read (they are, erm, very long posts, but hey, you've all done some Elkins by now, you are in training, so no whinging..). You will thank me when you parachute into the middle of one of the arcane arguments and need a compass. Now, as to the coding. It is sort of simple and not so simple. All I really want to make sure is that anything in the sequence gets the MD code (2.3.1.7), so always click that, in addition to whatever other codes you think appropriate. This will enable someone to find the entire thing in one category - a miracle in itself. BTW, I have removed the Spying Game headings that were on the category list as they are not acronyms, and only add confusion. However, I have made LECARRE SPYGAMES a subset of MD - and there may be others to move as well, eg DARK LADLES and SUNLIGHT ULTRA (arguable). The slightly more difficult part is that I think it probably useful to identify major sub-themes within it. Whether we should try and do this as we go along, or subsequently in a second edit is worth discussing. One big meta-argument that continually breaks out is whether or not there is/should be this sort of complex plot in books of these sort, plus all sorts of related garbage, I mean interesting discussion, about Dumbledore's sainted character and What Would The Children Think if the story hinged on something as dark as this etc etc. Let's see how confusing it gets. Anyway, here are the post numbers I have identified so far, I doubt that it is the final tally, and doesn't yet include the OoP update. 39662 (Spying Game I) 39679, 39685, 39686, 39688, 39692, 39694, 39695, 39697, 39698, 39699 39700, 39701, 39702, 39703, 39705, 39710, 39728, 39731, 39736, 39738, 39744, 39749, 39750, 39751, 39758, 39759, 39763, 39766, 39774, 39780, 39802, 39806, 39837, 39849, 39854, 39878, 39880, 39900, 39908, 39951, 39962, 39972, 39976, 39983, 40026, 40030, 40038, 40041 40044 (Spying Game II) 40046, 40049, 40050, 40055, 40056, 40059, 40060, 40061, 40064, 40069, 40077, 40085, 40091, 40103, 40142, 40162, 40164, 40271, 40370, 40386, 40389, 40390, 40412, 40414, 40421, 40439, 40489, 40490, 40544, 40559, 40830, 40891, 40894, 51990, 52129 Carolyn Who is extremely pleased to see Talisman back, and to read her excellent explanation of why a cigar is sometimes just a cigar.. Will it stop Barry putting his boots up on the desk and blowing smoke rings? Not for a moment.. 'He's every other inch a gentleman..' (Rebecca West) From kakearney at comcast.net Thu Jan 27 03:49:00 2005 From: kakearney at comcast.net (corinthum) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 03:49:00 -0000 Subject: Being oneself, or not, and Magic Dishwasher Message-ID: Having a bit of trouble deciding where to put #38904, which takes note of the fact that many of Voldemort's supporters willingly disguise themselves and their personalities for extended periods of time, while Dumbledore's do the opposite. I was thinking maybe 1.1.2 Freewill, choice, and fate, or maybe character development. Any better ideas? Also, hope you don't mind, I uploaded my saved copy of the three main MD posts, in Word format, to the files section, in case anyone would like easy access or a printable copy (but beware, it prints to 43 pages). -Kelly From kking0731 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 27 05:35:18 2005 From: kking0731 at hotmail.com (snow15145) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 05:35:18 -0000 Subject: Coding up the Dishwasher & new hanging offence... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh good, a great deal of intelligent reading material! Although I have read many of these posts before, because the main list can become overly opinionated, to put it politely, I will defiantly enjoy a second journey. In fact a few of these posts authors are the reason I am even here. The Potter series was intriguing enough to allow me to search and find this site but it was these posters plus some that made me *think* and become obsessed. In my personal favorite fantastic posts folder, I told you I became fanatical, I have Marina as the originator of the actual acronym MAGIC DISHWASHER post 39751. When we come across these posts that we code under MD, would we also code them to DD's agenda? But then again it may not be DD's agenda after all. Hey who just smacked me up along side my head. That hurt, I was just kidding! I know the boy (150 year old) has a plan. Snow Oops KathySnow From talisman22457 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 27 15:16:55 2005 From: talisman22457 at yahoo.com (Talisman) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 15:16:55 -0000 Subject: Coding up the Dishwasher & new hanging offence... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "carolynwhite2" wrote: > Right, I've just spent an exhaustive time in the real archives, ie > the horror that is Yahoo!Mort, and I have forced it to yield up a >lot of numbers relating to MD. So, to save money on time- >wasting trials, and get maximum value out of the length of rope I >have purchased, cataloguing edict #20708938397983 is that everyone >will sit down with a nice cup of tea and a biscuit (as recommended >by Pip), and read....and read Say Carolyn, those are some fetching Y-shaped scars you've got there. Congrats on surviving the curses of the Archive. And, my, my, my, what a lot of rope. Did I mention a gypsy once warned me of death on the gallows? Seems to have something to do with these little x's at the base of my middle fingers. I've never really cared for slip knots, since. So then, we'll just set the rope down, shall we? And allow me to thank you properly for organizing this MD review. Obviously it's a great theory and worthy of special consideration. I've occasionally recognized that I should reread it, specifically with regard to it's legacy impact, and I welcome the chance to do so now. I'm not quite sure I give it credit for every "DD has a plan" post. After all, the Trio suspected as much by the end of book one--albeit with a rather smaller "p." Still, there is no doubt that most readers felt DD was losing control as the series progressed, and MD, especially in it's early iterations, snapped him right back into the thick of things, with an expanded view of his reach. As you've shown, it generated an enormous flood of responsive posts and energized the list for months. Indeed, a fair portion of the nostalgia folks feel for the "good old days" can probably be laid at it's feet. But, if I recall correctly, there are any number of qualifications, and even a change of course in part the third, that may leave MD with palpable limitations, after all. The question of whether MD is the mother of all things after, or more a step in a progression, is obviously relevant to the scope of posts that will be coded to the theory as we move forward. I'll enjoy taking a closer look at this, along with other reviewers, and coming to conclusions, joint or several. Whatever I decide, I will, of course, defer to the will of the Catalogue, for coding purposes. So you see...heh...there's really no need to coil it like that. As for Kneasy's alternating inches, why he's a perfectly lovely scoundrel. That's why we like to play with him. Talisman, grinning and offering to light the gasper. From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Thu Jan 27 17:43:57 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:43:57 -0000 Subject: More on MD.. Message-ID: Some responses to various MD points: PRE-MD POSTS & POSTS ON MD THEMES Jen: >>I coded a great post from Grey Wolfe yesterday, #38213, that was almost Trelawney-like in its vision of what would happen in OOTP. Anyway, there were undercurrents of Spying Game philosophy in it. And wasn't Grey Wolfe part of the original MD team? I marked it as my first Fanatastic Post because some of his predictions were so right on the money.<< Kelly: >>Having a bit of trouble deciding where to put #38904, which takes note of the fact that many of Voldemort's supporters willingly disguise themselves and their personalities for extended periods of time, while Dumbledore's do the opposite. I was thinking maybe 1.1.2 Freewill, choice, and fate, or maybe character development. Any better ideas?<< Carolyn: Up to now, I have been saying don't try and code stuff to acronyms unless the acronym is actually mentioned (or as good as) in the reply part of the post you are dealing with. For MD, this approach is much more difficult than usual, as the theory went under threads with many different titles, even after it acquired the MD acronym. If I were trying to understand the theory from scratch, I would personally find it extremely useful to have precursor posts like Grey Wolf's 38213 (agree, FP definitely) to read, before the main theory hit. I would like to suggest, therefore, that early posts (before 39662) by either Pip or Grey that you think fit this bill are coded to the MD acronym. I don't think we should consider any other author's posts for this treatment, however. Just to take Kelly's question about 38904, as an example. This is from Amanda, and should probably be coded to 'Voldemort's agenda', 'spying & betrayal', maybe 'morality/ immorality', 'good & evil' - all codes likely to be in active use in coding MD. However, this doesn't make it an MD post (not that Kelly was suggesting it was). I propose to take the same line with coding ESE!Lupin, which is why I have been saying watch out for Pippin's posts on the theme - she took agin him a long time before the official launch of the theory at 39362. Kelly: >>Also, hope you don't mind, I uploaded my saved copy of the three main MD posts, in Word format, to the files section, in case anyone would like easy access or a printable copy (but beware, it prints to 43 pages).<< Carolyn: Really useful! Thanks. I have it on my hard disk to lob at unsuspecting enquirers too, but didn't think of this. CODING MD: Snow: >>When we come across these posts that we code under MD, would we also code them to DD's agenda? But then again it may not be DD's agenda after all.<<< Carolyn: Oh yes, code them up as you would any other post, just remember to add the MD acronym code, that's all. I think I might be terribly mean and go in and code up Spying Game I in advance, just as a reference - but that doesn't mean you use all the same codes all the time for every post in the thread, just code as appropriate. If it's not clear by now, this is a central principle of coding - keeping one or two categories as 'backbones' as you pick up different posts in a thread, and only abandoning the 'backbone' codes once the thread has wandered well and truly away from the original subject. IS IT A VALID THEORY? Talisman: >>As you've shown, it generated an enormous flood of responsive posts and energized the list for months. Indeed, a fair portion of the nostalgia folks feel for the "good old days" can probably be laid at it's feet. But, if I recall correctly, there are any number of qualifications, and even a change of course in part the third, that may leave MD with palpable limitations, after all. The question of whether MD is the mother of all things after, or more a step in a progression, is obviously relevant to the scope of posts that will be coded to the theory as we move forward. I'll enjoy taking a closer look at this, along with other reviewers, and coming to conclusions, joint or several.>> Carolyn: I'm not such a mad supporter not to agree with this. I think the first two parts are quite brilliant insights as to what POA and GOF are all about (indeed, the series up to that point). The third (post- OoP) part leaves a lot of questions, was a bit disappointing, and left us all hanging back in 2003. We are still waiting for the next installment. If people are interested, some very good posts to read about responses to part III are: 81046 from Tom Wall 81067 from: >>Jen, who wouldn't exactly call herself an MD enthusiast but who admires the genius of Pip!Squeak et. al., nonetheless.<<< 81074 from Kneasy Plus 81097 and 81104 from Pip and Melody respectively, explaining their intentions a little more. There is also more merit in the meta-arguments against than I like to admit; Boyd recently wrote to me offlist: >>>Perhaps the real question is whether the fact that such a complex theory as MD is possible indicates 1) that it is true, 2) that herself has been remarkably adept at intentionally providing us no useful information about anything important for some other reason central to the plot, or 3) that her style has remained _too_ spare at times when more exposition was called for. If the denouement is as straightforward as most expect, then I'm afraid we may have a #3 on our hands. Of course, she still writes circles around most authors....<<< But Laurasia thinks JKR might still surprise us: >>>That's the problem with unifying theories, I reckon. If you want to explain them you have to stop all the action for a few pages/minutes and explain them- eg, Backstory in PoA. I used to be of the opinion that JKR could *never* include one, but once I started to think that she already has- werewolf, animagi, prank, etc, etc, etc I figure that she might. Although, ones that rely on Voldemort spilling the beans (eg Changeling) still seem less likely than ones than rely on Dumbledore or, even better, Snape after DD's death!<<< Me? Well, no surprises here - I will be disappointed if the fantastic complexity she has written in just turns out to be window dressing for a heart-warming children's tale of a boy who conquers all through love. I mean, yick or what. What does worry me is that she has no such intentions, but isn't a good enough writer to resolve all the fiendish plotting at the same time as delivering moving, more-or-less adult novels to end the series. After PoA, her finest hour, GoF started out on that path, and kind of wobbled on the plot front, but pulled it together emotionally with the graveyard scene. Personally, I still find it difficult to know what she intended with OoP. Lots of plot information, over-written Harry teenage tedium.. small, rather puzzling bangs as Sirius dies and DD 'confesses' nothing very amazing. Not memorable. 'Must try harder' is my verdict, even after all the oceans of analysis. One of the things I'd like to do if we ever get this catalogue in some sort of shape, and after the end of the series, is to put together a selection of our finest posts, bound up together in some kind of sensible sequence. We could send it to her to as a memento of what people thought might be really going on in the books - in many instances, so much more interesting than what is there! A kind of festschrift with attitude, you could say. Carolyn From sevenhundredandthirteen at yahoo.com Fri Jan 28 02:54:04 2005 From: sevenhundredandthirteen at yahoo.com (sevenhundredandthirteen) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 02:54:04 -0000 Subject: The most bizarre post ever... Message-ID: According to a post I just catalogued (38197), in GoF Voldemort was possessing the prematurely born foetus/love-child of Peter Pettigrew and Bertha Jorkins... Can anyone trump me for utter weirdness and general perversion? ~<(Laurasia)>~ From stevejjen at earthlink.net Fri Jan 28 13:50:21 2005 From: stevejjen at earthlink.net (Jen Reese) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 13:50:21 -0000 Subject: The most bizarre post ever... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "sevenhundredandthirteen" wrote: > > According to a post I just catalogued (38197), in GoF Voldemort was > possessing the prematurely born foetus/love-child of Peter Pettigrew > and Bertha Jorkins... > > Can anyone trump me for utter weirdness and general perversion? > > ~<(Laurasia)>~ I have the end of that thread and it gets weirder. In GOF when Wormtail is "displaying a presence of mind I would never have expected from him" and "convinced Bertha Jorkins to accompany him on a nighttime stroll...where he 'overpowered' her"--well, someone offered this as the point of conception instead of the Love Child version. I coded it up for posterity. Jen, wondering if a powerful Obliviate could wipe this mercifully brief thread from her memory. From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Fri Jan 28 20:35:06 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 20:35:06 -0000 Subject: Opinion..Big Bang Destroyer... Message-ID: Do you think that TBAYs taking place on the Big Bang Destroyer should always be coded to 1.3.3.5 Bangs & ambushes ? Even if the theory being discussed is not necessarily very bangy? How should one determine degree of banginess?? Carolyn ..beginning to lose her grip From stevejjen at earthlink.net Fri Jan 28 23:57:43 2005 From: stevejjen at earthlink.net (Jen Reese) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:57:43 -0000 Subject: Opinion..Big Bang Destroyer... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "carolynwhite2" wrote: > > Do you think that TBAYs taking place on the Big Bang Destroyer should > always be coded to 1.3.3.5 Bangs & ambushes ? Even if the theory > being discussed is not necessarily very bangy? > > How should one determine degree of banginess?? > > Carolyn > ..beginning to lose her grip You're not the only one. My coding rate is about 20/hour at the moment and each post must be averaging 8-10 categories. People wrote some *long* suckers in the good ol' days. Those posts are stimulating a few neurons though, there might be a couple of areas still open for the odd theory or two... So, I'm finally finished with 38201-38300 and you already assigned me 38801-38900 in your post #1035. It will probably be next week on those. Some old TBay'ers will probably know best about Bangy, but I think it should only be used for a particular kind of theory and not the Big Bang Destroyer in general. Cindy could make anything sound bangy though, eh? Jen, too tired for TBAY tonight and sending a belated 'thanks' to Kelly for copying the MD posts to the files. From annemehr at yahoo.com Sat Jan 29 03:36:45 2005 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 03:36:45 -0000 Subject: Opinion..Big Bang Destroyer... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "Jen Reese" wrote: > > --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "carolynwhite2" > wrote: > > > > Do you think that TBAYs taking place on the Big Bang Destroyer > should > > always be coded to 1.3.3.5 Bangs & ambushes ? Even if the theory > > being discussed is not necessarily very bangy? > > > > How should one determine degree of banginess?? > > > > Carolyn > > ..beginning to lose her grip > > > You're not the only one. My coding rate is about 20/hour at the > moment and each post must be averaging 8-10 categories. People wrote > some *long* suckers in the good ol' days. Those posts are > stimulating a few neurons though, there might be a couple of areas > still open for the odd theory or two... > > So, I'm finally finished with 38201-38300 and you already assigned > me 38801-38900 in your post #1035. It will probably be next week on > those. > > Some old TBay'ers will probably know best about Bangy, but I think > it should only be used for a particular kind of theory and not the > Big Bang Destroyer in general. Cindy could make anything sound bangy > though, eh? > > Jen, too tired for TBAY tonight and sending a belated 'thanks' to > Kelly for copying the MD posts to the files. My eyes are glazed, not from anything interesting to drink, but from this virus, and my mind's in a similar state, so that I'm almost afraid to start coding again. Thought I'd ease into it by reading the group, but you're not helping! Anyway, I'd guess a TBAY scene merely located on the Destroyer without really being about Big Bangs, can be regarded as being located in TBAY in general. Meaning I'd probably not use 1.3.3.5 for location only, but for subject matter. After all, there are thousands of posts where George the bartender appears which are not remotely about the theory called "George." *takes deep breath* All right, I'm going in. Anne From kakearney at comcast.net Sat Jan 29 03:56:56 2005 From: kakearney at comcast.net (corinthum) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 03:56:56 -0000 Subject: The Aeneid and Jobberknolls Message-ID: Two quick questions... 1) Found a post comparing plot lines of HP and The Aeneid; would you consider The Aeneid a literary classic or myth/legend? Both? 2) I got dropped into the middle of the Neville Memory Charm Symposium, and just read Cindy's MATCHING ARMCHAIR with Jobberknoll variant. Do Jobberknolls need their own category under beasts? I don't remember whether they were ever discussed outside of this context, but they do appear several times in this thread. -Kelly From elfundeb at comcast.net Sat Jan 29 05:52:02 2005 From: elfundeb at comcast.net (Debbie) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 05:52:02 -0000 Subject: The Aeneid and Jobberknolls In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "corinthum" wrote: > > Two quick questions... > > 1) Found a post comparing plot lines of HP and The Aeneid; would you > consider The Aeneid a literary classic or myth/legend? Both? And the Bible, for a post discussing JKR's use of biblical symbolism? Neither really fits, at least from my perspective. Though I accept that there are those who would happily consign the Bible to the myth/legend category, I can't bring myself to do it. Debbie From elfundeb at comcast.net Sat Jan 29 14:15:53 2005 From: elfundeb at comcast.net (elfundeb) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 09:15:53 -0500 Subject: More on MD/ Elkins does it again/Bangs References: Message-ID: <002901c5060d$0af66ab0$3c02a8c0@TOSHIBALAPTOP> I've had a lovely time revisiting the MAGIC DISHWASHER, and all the thoughts posted here, since I've been puzzled for quite some time about what the current MD enthusiasts see as the essence of the theory. I did get a bit carried away here, using up valuable coding time but this fascinates me, and it's relevant (or at least I think it is) to the breadth of posts that get assigned the MD tag. KathySnow wrote: > Hey who just smacked me up along side my head. That hurt, I was just > kidding! I know the boy (150 year old) has a plan. Is this it? As someone who went through the original MD debate in real time, I didn't see that as the essence of MD. I have always put myself in the MD opposition camp, yet I never doubted that Dumbledore has a plan. My MD objection was that Pip's original Spying Game post posited a very specific plan in which Pettigrew was intentionally permitted to escape (with or without a flawed potion recipe). While I thought her theories were quite ingenious, and I marvelled at her skill in weaving the threads together, in the end I found that endorsing it required me to believe just a few too many impossible things before breakfast. Talisman wrote: > The question of whether MD is the mother of all things after, or > more a step in a progression, is obviously relevant to the scope of > posts that will be coded to the theory as we move forward. I'll > enjoy taking a closer look at this, along with other reviewers, and > coming to conclusions, joint or several. Certainly MD engendered a lot of discussion about Dumbledore and his agenda, but I believe that most listmembers at the time would have argued that MD referred to Pip's two Spying Game posts and the embellishments and variations on her theories, even though the OOP update broadened (some will say superseded) the original focus of MD. I will go with the flow, but think there are so many MD-specific posts in the archives we should be wary of over-coding to the theory for fear that the *true* MD posts will become lost in the forest. > Carolyn: > I'm not such a mad supporter not to agree with this. I think the > first two parts are quite brilliant insights as to what POA and GOF > are all about (indeed, the series up to that point). The third (post- > OoP) part leaves a lot of questions, was a bit disappointing, and > left us all hanging back in 2003. We are still waiting for the next > installment. I find it intriguing to read this from an MD fan, since my original objections to MD were based on the *specific* agenda that was proposed. I was quite baffled to discover that the MDDT were quite chuffed over OOP because it proved that Dumbledore has *a* plan. I thought Tom Wall's response summed up my reaction to the OOP update quite nicely: "The old theory used to revolve around several basic precepts: one, that Snape was in the Shrieking Shack as an agent, acting on behalf of Dumbledore, in order to: two) ensure that Pettigrew escaped to Voldemort, thereby: three) facilitating (via his severed hand) a flaw in the potion "Flesh, Blood, and Bone," which Voldemort used to bring himself back to life, therefore: four) this flaw in the potion would enable Harry to ultimately triumph over the Dark Lord. But this latest post doesn't address these at all. . . . My point is that the prophecy mentions nothing about a flaw in the potion engineered by Dumbledore. And unless we take it very liberally and with much salt, the Prophecy seems to nullify a great deal of the old MAGIC DISHWASHER in the same fashion that it's hobbled 'Heir of Gryffindor.'" KathySnow: I have Marina as the originator of the actual acronym > MAGIC DISHWASHER post 39751. But Grey Wolf was the creator of the dishwasher, in 39744: "I believe that there are many options available to recuperate Voldemort's body. They come in a variable degree of dificulty, but several do exist. Most of them will give back Voldemort enough power to start winning again, and some will not, being flawed in one way or another. Unicorn blood, for example, is flawed, since he has to drink it continually. The PS was NOT flawed, and that was why the Unicorn's blood was only interim preparation. Let's suppose *for the sake of an example* that other perfectly valid forms include an enchanted dishwasher and the egg of some odd bird (pick one at random form FB, if you want). Now, Dumbledore and the old gang had a long talk after Voldemort's fall and put together as many heads as possible trying to now what his enemy would do. They came up with a number of possible solutions to his problems, both flawed and not flawed. But they were greatly amazed to discover one method that, while indeed flawed, at first glance it did not seem to be so: the infamous potion." On a different topic, Miss Carolyn Havisham has commended the following: > In a completely exceptional post [38398], in which Elkins surpasses > even herself [warning - very long], she eventually reasons her way to > this point, which has suddenly made me think he could be the HBP > after all, but for quite the reverse reasons suggested by most > people. This is IMO (along with Still Life with Memory Charm) the best post ever written. If many of you are MD adherents, I am a Memory adherent, and must insist that you read this as well. But, why would Neville be the HBP, unless the statements that he's a pureblood are lies? Jen wrote: > Some old TBay'ers will probably know best about Bangy, but I think > it should only be used for a particular kind of theory and not the > Big Bang Destroyer in general. Cindy could make anything sound bangy > though, eh? I agree. To take a different example, we don't code all of Tabouli's posts to LOLLIPOPS just because that's where she kept the TAGS machine. OTOH, there was a point when it became de rigeur to assert that one's theory was *bangy* as though that was additional canon in its favor. I wasn't thinking that every assertion that a theory was bangy should be coded to the Big Bang, but maybe it should. Miss Havisham, could you give us a ruling? Debbie who promises to get back to work now -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spotthedungbeetle at hotmail.com Sat Jan 29 16:04:28 2005 From: spotthedungbeetle at hotmail.com (dungrollin) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 16:04:28 -0000 Subject: The Aeneid and Jobberknolls In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > > Two quick questions... > > > > 1) Found a post comparing plot lines of HP and The Aeneid; would > you > > consider The Aeneid a literary classic or myth/legend? Both? > > And the Bible, for a post discussing JKR's use of biblical > symbolism? Neither really fits, at least from my perspective. > Though I accept that there are those who would happily consign the > Bible to the myth/legend category, I can't bring myself to do it. > > Debbie Yeah, I've got some of those posts, too. If Alchemy's under symbolism, I suppose the Bible should be too, though for the moment I'm ticking religious influences and symbolism. A separate box for the Bible under symbolism would mean fewer posts coded to these general themes. Or should we still tick religious influences? Since The Adenoid has a named author I would put it under 'literary classics', reserving myth/legend for unattributed traditional stories. At least, if I were specifically looking for it, I'd look under Literary Classics first. Dot From quigonginger at yahoo.com Sat Jan 29 17:18:36 2005 From: quigonginger at yahoo.com (quigonginger) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 17:18:36 -0000 Subject: request for more posts clouded in babbling Message-ID: Ginger swoops into the office, plops in her chair, bums a light from Dot, lights up and faces the assembly, who, realizing that this is written in TBAY style, wait for her to speak. "Did you ever have one of those days?" she asks rhetorically. "I came up with the perfect acronym to the hottest topic on the list. I looked it up in the dictionary to make sure it was a word, and that I had spelled it correctly, and went to my computer only to find that it wouldn't work. So I called the repairman, giving myself a headache trying to remember the acronym, and waited until he arrived. He started fixing the computer, asking me to help, and then informed me that my kids, who were *supposed* to be snowblowing a path to the barn, had taken the snowmobiles into town for a night of partying. So there I was, torn between maternal duty and a desire to post. Then I woke up and realized: My computer is fine. Repairmen don't fix computers with needles and thread, nor do they ask you to hold their bobbins. It's not snowing. I live in town. I don't have a barn. I don't have snowmobiles. I don't have children. The acronym wouldn't work because ANTIREPO4TSSISESSUS isn't a real word. And-we don't *need* an acronym for the theory about how MemoryCharmed! Neville has been placed under a time-delayed Imperious by Bella when she tortured his parents, which causes him to make odd noises in his sleep so that Harry can't get any rest and clear his mind, which is the real reason the Harry failed Occlumency. And I was so distraught, because I knew *exactly* how to code it up for the catalogue." Ginger pauses, looks at the gaping faces of her cohorts, and asks Miss Carolyn, "May I have another batch of posts, or do you think I'm off my bat? Or both?" From annemehr at yahoo.com Sat Jan 29 19:43:33 2005 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 19:43:33 -0000 Subject: Philip Nel/Other Sources and Influences Message-ID: I was coding in a thread with the subject: "Re: Official Discussion Questions for the next Few Months: Question #1" and there was no indication that the original question was indeed one of those from Philip Nel until I had gone about six posts along my part of the thread. Since we are coding these to the Philip Nel category at the very bottom, I just thought I'd remind people to look out for these "official discussion questions" as being from him (though Penny Linsenmayer added a *lot* more to think about in her original post, which I went back to find). In fact, IIRC from when I checked back, the beginning of the thread, post #37242 (and I forget who coded it, sorry, but it wasn't me or Carolyn) was not coded to Philip Nel and should be. Another possible category we might need (sorry, Carolyn) is under Other Sources and Influences. Every possibility underneath is a literary one, except maybe for "old myths and legends". Wouldn't we like to have one called "history/current events" for coding up such things as how purebloods look at blood purity or how Lupin's lycanthropy may be a reflection of how people with AIDS are treated? I realise these also code up to other categories, but as RL history seems to have *influenced* JKR's writing, I do so much want to code them here, too. Anne From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Sun Jan 30 00:22:19 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 00:22:19 -0000 Subject: Lots of replies... Message-ID: Carolyn Havisham staggers back to the catalogue office late at night, and slams the Prose Portal shut behind her. Enough of so-called reality for one day. If she *ever* catches the little ....who slashed the tyres of all the cars in the street last night...well, crucio would be a bit too good for them. A couple of months as extras in Nicholas Nickelby with Mr Squeers would soon sort 'em out; easily arranged with her contacts. She looked down in some surprise at the tottering pile of papers on her desk.. this was turning into quite some management job. A good deal more complex than sorting out Wuthering Heights.. although that had had its moments, she thought, remembering the time she'd held a gun to Heathcliff's head; Jurisfiction's Rage Counselling classes really were extremely effective... But the Council of Genres would certainly raise their eyebrows over what was going on here; renegade readers interacting with live characters, alternate Potterverses existing side by side. Private armies, pitched battles with canon. Mr Fforde couldn't have made it up if he'd tried. Ah! Let's start with this sensible answer from Anne, who, despite a raging cold thought: >>Anyway, I'd guess a TBAY scene merely located on the Destroyer without really being about Big Bangs, can be regarded as being located in TBAY in general. Meaning I'd probably not use 1.3.3.5 for location only, but for subject matter. After all, there are thousands of posts where George the bartender appears which are not remotely about the theory called "George."<< Debbie agreed: >>>there was a point when it became de rigeur to assert that one's theory was *bangy* as though that was additional canon in its favor. I wasn't thinking that every assertion that a theory was bangy should be coded to the Big Bang, but maybe it should. Miss Havisham, could you give us a ruling?<<< Carolyn: well, it seemed clear to me temporarily, and I was all ready to go back and take bangs & ambushes off some of the Destroyer TBAY posts then. But wait a minute... George is not so clear cut, what about 39590, where he is asked his opinion as a Snape theory, but whilst sipping martinis in the bar? And what about the games of Flying Hedgehog, played with the one remaining flamingo ? And all the lifts Stoned!Harry gives people across the Bay.. When to code to an acronym, and when not, that is the question...erm... Feeling one of her heads coming on, Miss Havisham turned quickly to the next item: Kelly: >>1) Found a post comparing plot lines of HP and The Aeneid; would you consider The Aeneid a literary classic or myth/legend? Both?<<< Dot said: Since The Adenoid has a named author I would put it under 'literary classics', reserving myth/legend for unattributed traditional stories. At least, if I were specifically looking for it, I'd look under Literary Classics first. Carolyn: I might have gone for myth/legend first, but either category is correct really. One of those ones where we will have to make a final decision at second edit stage, and sort all refs into one group or another. Debbie further queried the myth/legend category: >>And the Bible, for a post discussing JKR's use of biblical symbolism? Neither really fits, at least from my perspective. Though I accept that there are those who would happily consign the Bible to the myth/legend category, I can't bring myself to do it.<< Dot said rebelliously, puffing on her cigarette: Yeah, I've got some of those posts, too. If Alchemy's under symbolism, I suppose the Bible should be too, though for the moment I'm ticking religious influences and symbolism. A separate box for the Bible under symbolism would mean fewer posts coded to these general themes. Or should we still tick religious influences? Carolyn, deeply tempted by the idea of putting the Bible on a par with alchemy, regretfully advises: Anything to do with The Bible goes first of all under 1.1.1.1 Religious influences. If they are talking about biblical symbolism, eg animals, plants, whatever, additionally tick those boxes plus 'symbolism' generally. Meanwhile, the acronyms are beginning to give other people nightmares too: Kelly: >>>2) I got dropped into the middle of the Neville Memory Charm Symposium, and just read Cindy's MATCHING ARMCHAIR with Jobberknoll variant. Do Jobberknolls need their own category under beasts? I don't remember whether they were ever discussed outside of this context, but they do appear several times in this thread.<<< Carolyn: Aagh, damn her. My thoughts are NO, on the basis that Jobberknolls are the product of Cindy's excitable imagination and not Potterverse creations. Ticking MATCHING ARMCHAIRS will be *quite sufficient*. Ginger, well and truly ensnared, woke up with a start claiming she had a new acronym: >>>The acronym wouldn't work because ANTIREPO4TSSISESSUS isn't a real word. And I was so distraught, because I knew *exactly* how to code it up for the catalogue." Ginger pauses, looks at the gaping faces of her cohorts, and asks Miss Carolyn, "May I have another batch of posts, or do you think I'm off my bat? Or both?"<<< Carolyn: Alas, you obviously haven't yet encountered TNRAMCNTSHPBTAFASETUDWOIT. I like to think this one is a tongue-in- cheek joke, but there is the possibility that it isn't. Your sleeping nightmares may yet become reality. Of course you can have some more - always best to get straight back on your bike after falling off you know: 39701-39800. This is post- Spying Game I, BTW, so you are now officially in MD-territory. Take rations and a gun. Anne made a good point about the Philip Nel posts: >>>I just thought I'd remind people to look out for these "official discussion questions" as being from him (though Penny Linsenmayer added a *lot* more to think about in her original post, which I went back to find). In fact, IIRC from when I checked back, the beginning of the thread, post #37242 (and I forget who coded it, sorry, but it wasn't me or Carolyn) was not coded to Philip Nel and should be.<<< Carolyn: This is my fault, I should have thought to add the Philip Nel code earlier. We better check forward from 37242 onwards, to make sure we haven't missed any. If I have a moment I will go into the real Yahoo archives and see if I can pick up the post numbers by following threads. Anne went on: Another possible category we might need (sorry, Carolyn) is under Other Sources and Influences. Every possibility underneath is a literary one, except maybe for "old myths and legends". Wouldn't we like to have one called "history/current events" for coding up such things as how purebloods look at blood purity or how Lupin's lycanthropy may be a reflection of how people with AIDS are treated? I realise these also code up to other categories, but as RL history seems to have *influenced* JKR's writing, I do so much want to code them here, too. Carolyn: I code these types of issue using a selection from these codes: 1.1.4.1 Inequality, bullying & discrimination 1.4.3 Portrayal of males/females/gays 1.4.5 Racial & cultural diversity 3.2.2 Relationship with the muggle world 3.2.6 Class system, racism & bigotry 3.4.4 Lycanthropy Do people want more options, if so what do you suggest? The other sources & influences section is really for comparisons with other sorts of books, rather than RL things, so I wouldn't want to put the codes there anyway. Carolyn, feeling quite proud of herself for having dealt with all these queries so efficiently, was about to pour herself a well-earned nightcap when she noticed a rather lengthy document underneath all the others entitled 'More on MD/ Elkins does it again/Bangs'. Debbie said: >>I find it intriguing to read this from an MD fan, since my original objections to MD were based on the *specific* agenda that was proposed. I was quite baffled to discover that the MDDT were quite chuffed over OOP because it proved that Dumbledore has *a* plan. <<< Carolyn: Well, I entirely agree with them that OOP proved he had a plan, and that he had been running a huge clandestine undercover war. You cannot deny that MDDT were spot on there. The bit I was disappointed over was Pip's theory as to why DD was doing it all - a sort of altruistic trying to change the world through the minds of children number. That I found rather soppy to be honest, and as our trusty Arrowsmith pointed out, with a poor likelihood of working out in reality. I also agree with you that Tom Wall's points were valid - there needed to be another post working through the plot detail to a third level. It's that one we are still waiting for. Doesn't mean MD is invalid - just that MDDT have taken a long time off ! On coding MD, Debbie said: << Certainly MD engendered a lot of discussion about Dumbledore and his agenda, but I believe that most listmembers at the time would have argued that MD referred to Pip's two Spying Game posts and the embellishments and variations on her theories, even though the OOP update broadened (some will say superseded) the original focus of MD. I will go with the flow, but think there are so many MD-specific posts in the archives we should be wary of over-coding to the theory for fear that the *true* MD posts will become lost in the forest.<< Carolyn: This is a discussion worth having as we get beyond, say, post 85000. There are specific outbreaks of MD discussion after this, which do definitely belong under the MD code. Others broaden out more generally into what Dumbledore's is doing. However, the list of 100+ posts I made this week do directly relate to the original two Spying Game posts and should all be considered for coding under this heading (if they are worth keeping in themselves, of course). At one point they drift off into a time- travel discussion, for instance, so that's the kind of cut-off we are looking for. Pausing for a swig, Carolyn stopped and exclaimed, 'take a team point Debbie!' >>But, why would Neville be the HBP, unless the statements that he's a pureblood are lies?<< Carolyn couldn't believe no one else had picked her up on this. She'd expected about 14 rather cutting posts the next morning, putting her right and making none-too-veiled suggestions about her suitability for doing this cataloguing job if she couldn't remember something this obvious. Lucky then that she had kept the rebuttal to hand. JKR's own definition on her website reads: 'Therefore Harry would be considered only half wizard because of his mother's grandparents'. Apart from the fact she *presumably* meant his mother's parents, half- blood just seems to indicate some admixture of muggle down the line - speculation is that you are not considered pureblood until you have had no muggles for at least nine generations (according to Ernie Macmillan). What Neville says is in PS is: 'my gran brought me up and she's a witch...but the family thought I was all Muggle for ages...nothing happened till I was eight' What Ron says in CS is: 'Look at Neville Longbottom, he's a pureblood and he can hardly stand a cauldron the right way up' I don't think there is any other statement anywhere from an adult confirming Ron's remark, which is a sort of sweeping statement that he could easily have assumed and not know the truth of - after all, he knows nothing about the torture of Neville's parents, so the Longbottom family is evidently not much discussed at the Weasleys. We are told the Longbottoms were much loved and their torture caused great anger, and we can perhaps guess that Frank is pure wizard family because we have seen the grandmother and heard about great uncle Algy, but we don't know for sure that Alice Longbottom's ancestry, in particular, had no muggles in it. Perhaps Neville didn't make a mistake in his remark. And in checking all this, I found another little contradiction. She says 'everyone who shows magical ability before their eleventh birthday will automatically gain a place at Hogwarts: there is no question of not being 'magical enough'; you are either magical or you are not'. Yet in PS, Neville says (of his family): 'they thought I might not be magical enough to come, you see..' Make up your mind, Jo. From talisman22457 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 30 01:28:10 2005 From: talisman22457 at yahoo.com (Talisman) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 01:28:10 -0000 Subject: Idle Hands Are The Devil's Workshop Message-ID: It's late, but what with the Jobberknoll lobby, gratuitous Destroyer usage, raging MD disorder, and the Sunday Update looming, Carolyn's burning the candles low. That's not the only thing running low, from the look of the empty bottles lying around. She takes a sip from her mug and pads back through the parlor. Coffee needs a little something. A little...she pauses to look up into the dark recesses of the staircase. Was that a snore or a snort of derision? Hmmm, mightn't be too late to borrow a spot of gin, at that. She turns toward the stairs, but--what's this? Bloody footprints lead across the Axminster and disappear into an old armchair. Swinging her mug like a cudgel, Carolyn leaps to the front of the chair. Two eyes blink up from a pile of raw liver; no...make that a gore-spattered creature, frozen in the process of licking its fingers. "Evening," it says, flashing a sticky smile. "I've, um, finished those posts you gave me before I left town. Come to see if you've got a few more." "Talisman?" "Indeed," it murmurs, bobbing its head so that a blob of something slips from the blood-matted hair to the floor, with a soft plop. "Well...that's...just...fine," Carolyn nods vaguely, surveying the ruined upholstery. A realization that the Chesterfield will forever bear a rusty silhouette sizzles through her beleaguered neurons. "Right," she snarls. "I thought you were off composing prurient limericks, or something. Really, I'd given up hope of getting anything useful out of you this month." "I know, I'm dreadful," Talisman says earnestly, rising from the chair and reaching for Carolyn's quickly retracted arm. "First it was that trip, and then I DID get distracted by Kneasy...." (This time, a definite *Snort* from above.) "But," she continues giddily, "I realized last night that you'd given me work the first part of January, and here it was the last weekend, so I felt I owed you at least an hour or so... And, guess what? That's all it took! 150 posts just like that!" Talisman beams at Carolyn and tries to snap her fingers, but succeeds only in a slippery flap that flecks the wallpaper with ruddy droplets. "I think about 45 made it through." "Oh God," Carolyn closes her eyes, shuddering inwardly. "It's doomed. It`s all doomed." Keeping her eyes shut, and barely moving her lips over barred teeth, she hisses, "Weren't you paying attention AT ALL, when I went over this with Jen? Didn't I show you my ROPE?" Her eyes snap open. She begins to move feverishly through the room. "Where is it...where...oh,just you...you...by your scrawny effing neck..." "No, really," Talisman sputters, "it's all legit... Listen, first there were all these 'when will OOP be released?' speculations. OT, right? Sliced and diced. Then someone started a 'who is the most pitiable character' chain. I really did look to see if anything probative bubbled up, but it was all 'it's worse to have a happy life cut short. Huh-uh, it's worse to have a long sucky one.' I considered them species of O.2 (Personal Fav?). Ran the first few through with a pike, and then just started ripping heads off like spent blossoms. After a bit, they switched to 'who do you think is most enviable? people who have short but happy lives? or long ones that suck?' I think that's when I started using my teeth." Carolyn leans back against the wall, breathing steam through flared nostrils, and fixes Talisman in a beady stare. Can't trust this one out of your sight. Encouraged, Talisman presses on. "And, there is a certain from-the- rear poster who keeps trying to launch theories based on clearly flawed premises, like 'we don't know how old Sirius was when he played the prank.' These were gutted and feed to 0.7. A flurry of responses citing canon, like 'duh, try this page where it says he's 16,' would follow. Just popped `em like bubble wrap. It was all buy-one-get-four, you know?" Carolyn rubs her temples; somewhere in the background she can hear Talisman nattering on.... "And, then there was a series of posts about Draco's upbringing-- WHICH I KEPT. Which. I. kept. But, by a few posts in, the Malfoys were left behind and the thread turned into: 'I didn't say Americans make wussy parents, I just said inconsistency is as bad as abuse. Oh really? Well,what do you know? I don't care to take parenting advice from the childless. No, you misunderstood me. No, YOU misunderstood ME.' Followed by apologies all around. I felt some draw and quarter coming on...." Carolyn rifles the pocket of her Brunhilde negligee for a pencil and a scrap of paper. Someone's going to have to clean up the mess; and then it's plastic slipcovers and newspapers on the floor until this lot leave. "We'll see," She sighs wearily. "Next time, a simple note will suffice. Now get out of here and hose off. Better yet, burn those things; and don`t come back until you look relatively human." "Gottcha," Talisman winks. "Hey, I don't expect a treat like this every day. I've got my MD biscuits, a monitor head rest, and a 2- posts-per-hour speed limit sign all set up and ready to go. So, I'll wait to hear from you on the next batch...right?" Carolyn manages a stiff nod. Talisman squelches toward the door, pausing as she fumbles with the knob, "Oh, and thanks for the ##1017,1022 rejection encouragements, I may slip back into the old wood to slit a few throats." Carolyn dumps her coffee into the potted sneezewort and vaults up the stairs, "I know where he keeps the bottles," she mutters. "HEY, KNEASY--open up and gimme some of that hooch, NOW!" From kakearney at comcast.net Sun Jan 30 03:08:38 2005 From: kakearney at comcast.net (corinthum) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:08:38 -0000 Subject: Lots of replies... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Me: > >>>2) I got dropped into the middle of the Neville Memory Charm > Symposium, and just read Cindy's MATCHING ARMCHAIR with Jobberknoll > variant. Do Jobberknolls need their own category under beasts? I > don't remember whether they were ever discussed outside of this > context, but they do appear several times in this thread.<<< Carolyn: > Aagh, damn her. My thoughts are NO, on the basis that Jobberknolls > are the product of Cindy's excitable imagination and not Potterverse > creations. Ticking MATCHING ARMCHAIRS will be *quite sufficient*. What's this? I thought one of the prerequisites for this job was the ability to recite all Harry Potter books verbatim. Schoolbooks included, Miss Havisham. "JOBBERKNOLL M.O.M. Classification: XX The Jobberknoll (northern Europe and America) is a tiny blue, speckled bird which eats small insects. It makes no sound until the moment of its death, at which point it lets out a long scream made up of every sound it has ever heard, regurgitated backwards. Jobberknoll feathers are used in Truth Serums and Memory Potions." FBAWTFT p. 22-23 While I begin a debate on Cindy and her excitable imagination, Jobberknolls come from JKR. Now, if you want to start a debate on the canonicity of the schoolbooks... -Kelly Can viruses be transmitted through the internet? If so, Anne, I blame you for spending today on my couch rather than in New Orleans watching Mardi Gras parades. :) From willsonkmom at msn.com Sun Jan 30 13:00:29 2005 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:00:29 -0000 Subject: Crouch family dynamics Message-ID: I've come across a thread that talks about the Crouches...the father's treatment of Barty Jr., the mother's sacrifice. I coded to the general heading of family dynamics and to the three individuals. Agreed? Kathy From quigonginger at yahoo.com Sun Jan 30 13:43:28 2005 From: quigonginger at yahoo.com (quigonginger) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:43:28 -0000 Subject: quick query Message-ID: In my new batch, there is a new poll. Since polls are in their own section, recorded for posterity already, I assume it is to be rejected, correct? Is it to be rejected under Admin or OT/personal... or does it really matter, just so long as it gets rejected? No, I haven't gotten that far in coding; I have taken to going to the main list and just reading the posts first before coding as the print is bigger and I can get my bearings better. You were right, Carolyn, I'll bring rations. Lots of them! Thanks, Ginger From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Sun Jan 30 14:48:03 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:48:03 -0000 Subject: Mayhem, sex & gore/Crouches/OT polls Message-ID: Miss Havisham blearily stumbled back into the catalogue office at lunchtime GMT. It had been a bad night, no doubt about it. She surveyed the devastation. >>the empty bottles lying around<< >>Bloody footprints lead across the Axminster and disappear into an old armchair.<< >>a blob of something slips from the blood-matted hair to the floor, with a soft plop.<<< >>the Chesterfield will forever bear a rusty silhouette << >>a slippery flap that flecks the wallpaper with ruddy droplets.<< She closes her eyes for a moment. How the heck is she going to reassure the more nervous members of the cataloguing group that this is not a conspiracy theorists' hideout? With some difficulty. 'Evanesco !' Instantly, the cataloguing main office is scourgified. The windows spring open, and instead of the smell of stale blood and alcohol, the room is filled with sea breezes and the welcome aroma of fresh ground coffee. With arms folded, Miss Havisham surveys the culprits, who it has to be said, don't look very contrite. Talisman, although showered and wearing an odd assortment of nearly- new clothes continues to grin wickedly, and fits the bloody shadow on the Chesterfield exactly. Kneasy, insouciantly smoking a cigar, is pinning up pictures of Bella threatening Harry with her wand, up beside his ABBA posters, admitting: <<'Even that makes me break out in a light sweat.'<<< "You do realise you two are lowering the tone? Don't you.." she began, rather hopelessly, trying not to smile. "That there are all these nice people out there who are just thrilled by these magical books, and like to read them to their children ? Clean, family entertainment, right?" "It really matters to them to discuss whether Americans make wussy parents, or not; and issues such as 'it's worse to have a happy life cut short..[no].. it's worse to have a long sucky one.' are really crucial in their lives. It wasn't nice to start 'ripping heads off like spent blossoms', you know." "And as for you".. Miss Havisham glared at Kneasy. "..I think you know perfectly well that this kind of thing can't be republished on public information websites: >>> One of my more whimsical observations on life is that what every 17 year old boy needs is Tina Turner. If she's not available, Bella will make a damn good substitute. Less imaginative posters hypothesise a show-down between her and Neville. How mundane can you get? Have you no soul, is there no fire in your belly? *This* could be epic. Ginny will be Burger-King after Michellin 3 star; Hermione boiled cabbage after fois gras. Lucky, lucky Harry. La Belle Dame Sans Merci. And if she finds Harry alone and palely loitering, his goose is cooked.<<< Kneasy looked even more smug than usual, in fact, he was so pleased with himself that he even overlooked the fact that his gin cupboard had been raided overnight. Cramming a battered fedora on his head, he banged out the office on his way down to The George for a pick-me-up. Talisman was halfway out the door to join him, when Miss Havisham called her back. "Waaait a minute! Not quite so fast.." She scribbled some numbers on a piece of paper: 39801-39900. "Now, just you take care of these..they are our heritage you know..I'll be checking up on you." Nervously she watched Talisman tuck them into her cartridge belt. Still, any hanky panky with that lot, and Talisman would have Pip, Pippin and Grey Wolf to deal with. She could try gutting and feeding them to 0.7 and see what happened. Comforted by this pleasant thought, Carolyn turned to Kelly, who was standing smartly to attention by her desk. "Permission to speak, ma'am". Kelly launched quickly into a gabble: "I thought one of the prerequisites for this job was the ability to recite all Harry Potter books verbatim. Schoolbooks included, Miss Havisham. "JOBBERKNOLL M.O.M. Classification: XX The Jobberknoll (northern Europe and America) is a tiny blue, speckled bird which eats small insects. It makes no sound until the moment of its death, at which point it lets out a long scream made up of every sound it has ever heard, regurgitated backwards. Jobberknoll feathers are used in Truth Serums and Memory Potions." FBAWTFT p. 22-23 Jobberknolls come from JKR. Now, if you want to start a debate on the canonicity of the schoolbooks...<<< Rats! The girl was right. Forcing an awful smile to her face, Miss Havisham acknowleged defeat. It didn't do to muck with anyone who could recite the books verbatim, sight unseen, from the middle of the Pacific Ocean. She reached in her desk for a bar of Honeydukes best, and presented it to Kelly. "You shall have your wish..Jobberknoll's will be added to the categories list. They could come in handy after all; we are running low on truth serum." Feeling in need of a pick-me-up herself, she quickly dealt with two further overnight queries from Kathy and Ginger: >>>I've come across a thread that talks about the Crouches...the father's treatment of Barty Jr., the mother's sacrifice. I coded to the general heading of family dynamics and to the three individuals.<< >>In my new batch, there is a new poll. Since polls are in their own section, recorded for posterity already, I assume it is to be rejected, correct? Is it to be rejected under Admin or OT/personal... or does it really matter, just so long as it gets rejected?>>> saying she would add 'Crouch's' as an extra sub-category to the family dynamics list, and that ALL quizzes and polls were to be mercilessly rejected to OT without exception. At last, she could leave. A little unfinished writing business awaited her, which required more silence and concentration than was possible in the noisy Catalogue office. Carolyn From annemehr at yahoo.com Sun Jan 30 17:05:49 2005 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 17:05:49 -0000 Subject: TBAY/Other Sources peevishness/Done with batch Message-ID: The door of the broom cupboard opens, and a figure emerges with a machete dangling from her limp hand. The atmosphere resembles nothing so much as a book she once jumped into for a while (_The Eyre Affair_; pleasant to read, yet once put down never seemed to insist on being picked up again; after being got halfway through and the library fine mounting to $11.21, it was duly returned). That trail of blood, now -- puts her right in mind of a man(?) called "Hades"... Except she recognises those bloody footprints to belong to Talisman. With a slight shudder, Anne realises how fortunate she is that Talisman never turned her weapon on *her*, even though she used to like to argue with Talisman every chance she could get - after all, it's much more fun to wrestle with someone stronger than yourself, and much more fun to cross keyboards with a nimble mind than be patiently reminding new young theorists that it is not at all surprising and certainly not a FLINT that the MoM looked to be deserted when Harry & co. arrived... Carolyn's office also appears deserted, so Anne leaves a note: ___________________________________________________________________ Re: coding up small mentions of the Big Bang, George, Stoned!Harry and the like in TBAYs -- isn't it just like coding passing mentions of other people and things in regular posts? It's often a difficult decision to make. I try to look at it as one of our users might, and think if the post in question would be worth wading through for the mention of George, or whatever, in it. Not that a very short comment may not be quite thought provoking, or a long on merely an "Adds nothing new"... You just have to suck it up and use your best judgement. Here, have a cup of tea, dear. Re: Other Sources and Influences -- all right, I accept your vision of the category. You *might* just want to rename it "Literary Sources and Influences" then. I just coded up a post (by Dicentra, IIRC) speculating on how the Weasleys may in part be based on the Mitford family (you know, Jessica Mitford's family), and it had nothing to do with the books any of them wrote except to mention Jo giving Jessica's to Jessica. I was *so* itching to code it there, but I restrained myself. I feel all virtuous now; fitting, since it's Sunday. Re: my batch -- I'm done. ~Anne ___________________________________________________________________ Anne leaves the office to check on the delivery of a package; she's expecting the arrival of a Salvador Dali to grace the largest wall of her broom cupboard in lieu of a window. From annemehr at yahoo.com Sun Jan 30 17:14:46 2005 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 17:14:46 -0000 Subject: Argh Message-ID: 1. Why do typographical errors, which are completely invisible through three proofreads of an unsent message, jump out at you and laugh in your face the first time you read your posted message? 2. Why don't we have an "edit" button? 3. Yeah, I know, you all have heard all this before. Deal. From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Sun Jan 30 20:05:34 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:05:34 -0000 Subject: UPDATE, Sunday Jan 30th Message-ID: PROGRESS To date, we have coded/allocated for coding 47815 posts. Of these, we have actually coded 46205, and rejected 25247 (54.6%) - continuing to slide, despite Talisman's best efforts. This week, with a record 15 people coding, we managed 1689 posts, and have reached post 40 000 on the main list. NEW CATEGORIES 1.1.1.5.3 Respect/disrespect for authority 1.1.1.6.4 Revenge 1.3.1.2.3 WARPS 1.3.2.4 TOUCHE 1.4.7.6 Crouches 1.5.2.1.1 GRIMS 2.1.6.9 PINESAP 2.2.1.15 AIRSHIP FANCY 2.2.2.3 MAD 2.2.7.3 (SHH) JAM TAKES BIBS 2.2.9.2 BBGUN 2.2.14.1 BARKEEP 2.3.1.7.1 LECARRE SPYGAMES 2.3.1.7.2 BADD ANGST I & II 2.3.1.7.3 OCELOTS 2.3.7.1.9 WINDOW SILLS 2.3.7.4.16 SINAS 2.4.1.16 DRIBBLE 2.4.4.17 WINCH 2.10.1.9 KITTENS & RAINBOWS 2.10.1.10 PS I LOVE ME LETS KISS 2.11.22 Ernie Prang 2.12.4.1 SSHARP OWW 2.15.19 Jobberknoll 2.16.6 Banshee 3.2.3.2 PACMAN 3.7.5.1 Howlers 3.8.4.15 Shield charm 5.5 Philip Nel From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Sun Jan 30 20:13:53 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:13:53 -0000 Subject: TBAYS/lit influences In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" wrote: >>Re: coding up small mentions of the Big Bang, George, Stoned!Harry and the like in TBAYs -- isn't it just like coding passing mentions of other people and things in regular posts? Yes, I think so. Just the same principle..it just gets extremely difficult to decide sometimes. >>You *might* just want to rename it "Literary Sources and Influences" then. I just coded up a post (by Dicentra, IIRC) speculating on how the Weasleys may in part be based on the Mitford family (you know, Jessica Mitford's family), and it had nothing to do with the books any of them wrote except to mention Jo giving Jessica's to Jessica. I was *so* itching to code it there, but I restrained myself. I feel all virtuous now; fitting, since it's Sunday. Ok, I'll change the title of the section. ?But she must have admired Jessica Mitford initially for her published work? Re: my batch -- I'm done. Ok - here you go: 39901-40000. MD now in full swing, but often not called that at all.. From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Sun Jan 30 20:26:15 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:26:15 -0000 Subject: Summary for MEG, for 1st February Message-ID: Would one of you passing elves pick this up and take over to MEG? ****************************************************************** PROGRESS ON CATALOGUING PROJECT AS AT 1st February 2005 The group has now catalogued 46205 posts in total, including the old Yahoo Club. We have reached post 40000 on the main list - meaning we have coded 5000 posts in January. In the process, we have rejected 25247 posts - 54.6% of the total coded. There are therefore 20958 posts currently in the catalogue. The group currently has 25 members, of which 15 are actively coding. On the technical front, Paul has been successfully in solving the connection problems we were having with his server, having switched from a cable to a new DSL provider. This has improved coding speeds very considerably, and meant less errors in coding due to slow loading of the category list. However, other than that, Paul, Tim & Carolyn have not yet had time to push forward with the screen designs for the user interface. This is now a priority for February. We also still need to investigate alternative servers to host the catalogue long term. The issue of funding this needs to be discussed quite soon. ******************************************************************* From zanelupin at yahoo.com Mon Jan 31 16:44:20 2005 From: zanelupin at yahoo.com (KathyK) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 16:44:20 -0000 Subject: Hello! and More Posts, Please Message-ID: Hi Everyone! I've been lurking in the shadows for the past several months. I thought it might be time I said a quick greeting to all. I joined the catalogue back in....oh, September, maybe? I've coded a few posts here and there but owing to unforseen circumstances, the past few months I have been pretty darn useless. But now things outside Harry Potter are settling a bit and I'm ready to jump back in. I just finished up my last batch. Carolyn, if you please, may I have some more? KathyK, who may be settled into her new job but still hates every minute of it and wouldn't bother at all if not for the pay and medical beneifts From carolynwhite2 at aol.com Mon Jan 31 17:23:59 2005 From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (carolynwhite2) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:23:59 -0000 Subject: More Posts for KathyK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-Catalogue at yahoogroups.com, "KathyK" wrote: > > I just finished up my last batch. Carolyn, if you please, may I > have some more? > > KathyK, who may be settled into her new job but still hates every > minute of it and wouldn't bother at all if not for the pay and > medical beneifts Hi Kathy, glad you've been able to settle into it at last. Here's a new batch: 40101-40200 Health warning: you are parachuting into the middle of the Magic Dishwasher arguments, so do read up on some posts here last week about how to code it! Carolyn Who has to invent her own pay and medical benefits, and isn't that enthusastic about it either..