[HPFGU-Feedback] Attribution problems

[Przemyslaw Plaskowicki]

Dicentra spectabilis wrote:
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> --- In HPFGU-Feedback at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun Hately" <drednort at a...>
> wrote:
> > On 21 Nov 2003 at 1:40, Hebby Elf wrote:
>
> > > If you could change one thing about HPfGU, what would it be?
> >
> [...]
>
> Shaun is describing "nested attribution," which is indeed a very old,
> established way of doing things online.
>
This illustrates another problem with nesting. See below for further 
discussion.

[...]

> Generally speaking, in business it's
> considered good form to leave the quotage intact because you don't
> have to look at it unless you want to.  It also leaves a record of the
> conversation so that people can backtrack through it without having to
> search their in-boxes for all of the messages in a thread.

I was sure, that happens because some people would not read the response 
thinking that someone had in mistake sent them back their original message.

[...]

> KathyK:
>
> > [I]n the last couple days there's been an
> > increase in the number of posters using the "Now Me" approach in
> > their responses rather than using their name.  This could be a cause
> > for some of the improper attributions going on lately. 
>
> Ah, the infamous "now me".  Ironically, it's the unintended
> consequence of a crackdown on bad attribution.  Because so many e-mail
> apps don't add the brackets, it can be difficult to tell where the
> quotage ends and the original material begins.  Someone started using
> "now me" to clarify things, and other newbies followed suit.  Despite
> many ADMINS begging list members to cease and desist, the habit
> persists.  It's the down side of using other messages as an example.
>
> KathyK is right: it messes up attribution because the identity of "now
> me" changes as soon as someone replies.
>
>
As evidenced at the top of this message nested quoting have a 
disadvantage of doing things like:

Ron wrote:
 >Harry wrote:
 >>Malfoy wrote:
 >>>Hermione wrote:
 >>>>Dumbledore wrote:

Which creates additional chaos in proper attributing. When people 
attributes by

Malfoy:
 >What actually Malfoy wrote

this header nonsense with multiple names at the beginning can be simply 
omitted.

> Any suggestions on how to rid list members of this bad habit?


Perhaps by agreeing to use one way of attributing,  and using it on all 
messages. Also if Elfs would like to correct attributing to agreed 
format other listees should follow.

Best solution would be adding 'Pshemekan's response'/'Pshemekan thinks' 
or similar at the beginning of _own_ response (as this takes of problem 
of attributing from responder's shoulders). Naturally that won't work 
when responding in quote-then-relevant-response format (as in this mail) 
--  such responses are, however, rather rare.

>
> Susan:
>
> [...]

> > I finally just gave up and decided to
> > not post anymore. 
>
> If it's any comfort at all, I got *seven* messages bounced back to me
> before I got off moderated status, each for a different infraction.
> IOW, I feel your pain.  As for Elves giving you contradictory
> instructions, would you mind writing me offlist and sending me those
> messages?  I'd like to see what happened.
>
Well, I must confess that none of my posts was bounced back to me, when 
I was in a moderated status -- spring this year. I'm sure that is 
because I use mailing lists and Usenet since 1998.  It takes literally 
years (well, it took me that time) to instinctively use proper way of 
Internet posting, so don't worry.

-- 
Przemyslaw 'Pshemekan' Plaskowicki
It is the duty of every citizen according to his best capacities to give validity to his convictions in political affairs. (Albert Einstein, 'Treasury for the Free World,' 1946)