[HPFGU-Feedback] Stuffs from everyone replied to-

[Shaun Hately]

On 22 Nov 2003 at 15:44, Saitaina wrote:

> Shaun wrote:
> 
> <Because an increasing number of people are now using e-mail
> programs that don't have a plain text setting (a lot of aol users, for example,
> are in
> this situation now) or where the plain text setting is difficult to set (way too
> difficult
> for the average casual user?).>
> 
> Yes but as a Yahoo!Group we can change the group settings so that HTML is
> stripped out and just text is left.  I have my own personal settings that way on
> every list I belong to and every list I own (not HPfGU as I don't 'own' it),
> mostly because my computer freaks out at HTML emails.

No you can't. Not unless yahoogroups has seriously changed the way it operates 
over the last few months.

You can set a list to *BLOCK* all html posts simply by telling it to exclude 
attachments. There is no mechanism at yahoogroups to strip out html. I have 
friends who code for them - this is a commonly requested feature but one which 
(of of mid-October) YG had no intention of implementing because it would cost 
them advertising revenue.

You can tinker with a setting at YG which many people think strips HTML - but it 
doesn't. What it does is ensures that *as a default* you are sent messages as 
plain text. Any message sent to a list you are on in plain text will be distributed to  
you as plain text. Any message however that is sent in html will be distributed in 
html (unless totally blocked because the list doesn't allow attachments).

If you don't set that setting to plain text, YG will *convert* any plain text message 
to html (and they get paid more for distributing html ads) - so you can choose to 
have html added to plain text messages - but YG does not have the facility to 
have html stripped out of html messages converting them to plain text.

Now it's possible that's changed in the last few weeks - but it's something I've had 
to look at before myself, so I do know how its functioned for a few years. I've even 
set up test groups at times to try and find funky ways of getting around this 
limitation.
 
> I'm not saying HPfGU will suddenly change this setting (if we haven't already,
> woudln't know about that) but I'm saying it's an option of HTML is the only way
> people can post and lots of list members are complaining about colours and or
> whatever.

As far as I know, it *isn't* an option. I'm going to do some tests on my tests lists in 
a fewq minutes just to check that hasn't changed.
 
> <If they are allowed, I think you will lose a lot of members.>
> 
> I don't really see people losing the right to use pretty colours as a reason to
> jump ship...unless your already annoyed with us and are looking for any excuse.
> As I stated above, this can be changed for the whole list, which means no matter
> how someone posts, it all shows up uniform.  Concidering our demographic...I
> think a lot of people would be happy with the whole non squinting factor.

Other way around - I don't think the people who want to receive html will jump 
ship. I think people who only want to receive plain text will - because a lot of 
people still use e-mail programs that can't handle anything but plain text, and 
there are still people who have to pay volume charges and for whom html e-mail 
costs extra money.

Basically I think HPFGU is going to have to make a choice - allow HTML e-mail  
or limit the list to plain text only. The former will exclude those whose e-mail 
systems give them no choice but to post in html (primarily AOL users using up to 
date software at the moment). The latter will lead to unsubscriptions by those who 
cannot handle html or who object to it.

YG currently does *not* have a facility to strip html from messages - it only has a 
facility to block it completely - I'm going to check that in a few minutes and I'll 
report back if I'm right or wrong on that. So a choice is going to have to be made.

In my view, that choice should be to exclude html - because plain text *is* the 
internet standard for e-mail (resisting the urge to post RFC numbers...) - just as 
nested attribution is - personally I think e-mail lists should generally expect people 
to adhere to the basic e-mail standards - even if that makes it difficult for some 
people, and even if some people wind up falling victim to companies and software 
that ignore those standards.


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at ... | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia