[HPFGU-Feedback] The Debate Around TBAY, Etc.

[Kathryn Cawte]

(I've snipped Sandy quite heavily because she wrote an awful lot - I *think*
I've managed to keep the points I want to respond to, as she intended them
and not changed the meaning by the editing, but you never know - feel free
to yell at me if I changed your meaning Sandy)

Sandy

(Personal note: the issue of whether or not TBAY is "resilient"
enough to handle a move to its own area: is this a trick question?
It's a "heads I win, tails you lose" for those wanting to move it:
whether it survives or not, they win; even if it survives, its
supporters can hardly do more than break even. As there seems to be
little actual impetus for moving it, its ostensible resilience is
moot. Again, strictly my opinion.)

K

That's a little unfair - at least two people, Shaun and one of the
pro-TBAYers (I apologise to whoever it was but I didn't feel the need to
reply to your message so I didn't make a note) thave suggested that TBAY
might *benefit* from the suggestion of an independent list, in which case
both the people who don't like TBAY *and* the TBAYers would win. TBAY does,
in my totally uninformed opinion, seem to be dying of late anyway - I don't
seem to be deleting as many meesages as usual anyway - so maybe it does need
something drastic done to revitalise it.

Sandy again
I was just trying to make some sense out of the
antipathy that I personally find so disproportionate. Not the, "Oh, I
don't like it," or the "I wish it would go away," but the "IT MUST
DIE!" sentiment I've heard about and thought I was sensing here.

I *really* don't understand. I am and have been trying to.

K

I haven't seen that attitude anywhere so I don't really see a need to try an
understand it - no one has expressed a wish to destroy or damage it in
anyway.

Sandy once more
Considering the obvious emotional (and otherwise) investment that
*some* list members have in TBAY (not to mention the enjoyment of
those who just like having it on the main list), I cannot help but
think that any intense antipathy towards it *which manifests in any
actual attempt remove it and/or do it damage* has to be based on
something beyond anything I've read here.

K

I'm beginning to understand your earlier comment - you're trying to ascribe
deeper darker motives to people who don't seem to exist on this list. No
wonder we were confused - since there doesn't seem to be anyone who wished
to destroy TBAY those of us who are simply irritated by it and would be
perfectly happy if it vanished assumed you were talking to us. While there
are a few people who would like it to be removed, most of us who've said we
couild live with that idea don't really care all that much, the proposer
suggested it as an offhand suggestion to benefit TBAY and at least one
TBAYer thinks it's a good ide - I think you need to seperate the idea of
removing it and trying to damage it in your mind as they are not the same
thing at all.

Yes I agree - were someone expessing that kind of opinion I too would have
to wonder why they were getting so worked up over it - still no one has so I
guess there's no problem.


On reflection, unless the TBAYers decide to try a seperate list to see if
they can get more interest in the format, I don't think that this problem is
going to exist in a few months anyway. If the TBAYers really want it to
continue then I think they might need to try and revamp the format somewhat
anyway because, from an outsiders pov, it seems to be petering out anyway.
(does anyone know if the number of TBAY posts is actually decreasing out of
interest, or does it just seem that way?)

K
(reading this back I sound sarcastic in a couple of places, I really don't
mean too but it's been a long week and I can't think how to rephrase it to
make it sound more sincere - maybe it's just that my inner voice is
permanently in sarcastic mode and not the post *shrugs*)
"The Loudest Noise Comes From The Electric Minerva."