Fanfic vs. TBAY

[heiditandy]

--- In HPFGU-Feedback at yahoogroups.com, Dicey wrote: 

> TBAY draws on past HPfGU discussions and on the HP canon -- 5 
novels,
> 2 schoolbooks, numerous JKR interviews.  Fanfic discussion would 
draw
> on the thousands upon thousands of fanfics that exist on the 
Internet.  

Arguably, TBAY draws on a larger "body" of work than a discussion of 
fanfic, IMO. And here's why I think so:

TBAY draws on those past HPfGU discussions that Dicey mentions. 
Thousands of them. Pushing 90,000 posts, on the main list, plus the 
few thousand in the Archive from the Yahoo Club - but it 
particularly draws on all the prior TBAY posts. However, it is 
possible to discuss fanfic per the current list rules (it is fine to 
post "... cites to or short excerpts from derivative works or 
ficlets used to illustrate canon points, or the relationship of 
fanfiction to canon...") and draw on only, say, one story, or to 
write a brief bit of fanfic to specifically illustrate a post 
onlist. 

I don't think that there needs to be any wholesale discussion of 
fanfics in general on the Main List; it's good that people can ask 
about fanfics they may enjoy, or recommend stories on OTC, or plug 
their own stuff on Announcement. What was banned from the Main List 
for a long while (about 18 months-plus) was any use of fanfic to 
illustrate a canon point. But that's now allowable, so while I don't 
want to sound like I'm quashing a discussion if anyone wants to 
continue to engage in it, there really isn't, imho, any problem with 
the list rules' current take on fanfic. But that's just me.  

> 
> When fanfic discussion was eliminated from HPfGU, those who wished 
to
> discuss fanfic went elsewhere to discuss it -- to FictionAlley,
> SugarQuill, and the dozens of other sites dedicated to posting and
> evaluating fanfic.  

Actually, FictionAlley didn't exist then. FictionAlley was created 
to give HP fanficcers a way to have their fics hosted, and to have 
discussions about the books, the films, the fanfic, etc., outside of 
FFN, which was annoying, and HPfGU, where it was not permissible on 
the main list, and could have overwhelmed OTC. 

> 
> If TBAY were taken off HPfGU, where would those who enjoy it go? 
> There are no existing sites dedicated to posting and analyzing 
TBAY. 
> To form such a site would cut TBAY off from its source: it would be
> the equivalent of forbidding HP fanfic from using the Potterverse 
as
> its starting point.

I'm not saying that this should happen, mind, but I am saying that 
it's not quite an equivalent. First of all, I don't think anyone's 
said that it should be wholly separated from HPfGU, although there 
have been a few people saying that it should be off the main list. 
That would, I'd think, presuppose the creation of HPFGU-TBAY, which 
would be promoted on the Welcome Message, on the front page of the 
other groups, perhaps in the "sig message", even with the occasional 
ADMIN on the other lists, reminding people about the TBAY list. 
People would be able to give a summary of a canon-based reply 
without CARP on the main list and say, "and btw, I'm posting my tbay-
reply over on HPFGU-TBAY - you can find it there!" so their fellows 
would know where to find it. 

I think it would be a shame if TBAY were to be cut off from the 
ability to spark off Main List discussions, but I don't forsee that 
happening, as I don't think anyone's suggested it at all. 

> 
> If we assert that "if fanfic is banned from HPfGU, TBAY should 
also,"
> it assumes that they are roughly equivalent.  That being the case,
> should TBAY move to FictionAlley?  Would the Crouch Novenna or the
> Assassin!Snape threads be welcome over there?
> 
> I should hope not.  They're not fanfic.

What has that got to do with anything? We have over 750,000 
discussion posts on FA; some of them discuss writing, or other 
authors' books, or stuff that's 100% off topic, like Lord of the 
Rings, but there's almost 1900 threads with over 45,000 posts about 
Order of the Phoenix itself, plus over a hundred thousand character 
discussion posts in the Characters section. Those are *discussion 
posts*, not fanfic. 

However, FA doesn't allow role-playing to take place on the Park 
forums themselves, because it was becoming a bandwith problem. We've 
moved things of that style over to LiveJournal, and we're giving 
away codes to registered users and authors, who then give us one 
back, so they can have roleplaying in LJ format, which really seems 
to work better than a threaded discussion for what it is. So yeah, 
Assassin!Snape threads and the Crouch Novenna would be more than 
welcome in the FA family of sites. Why wouldn't you think it would 
be?

Heidi