Another country heard from... (was: Thoughts on exclusion and culture) LONG

[joywitch_m_curmudgeon]

--- In HPFGU-Feedback at yahoogroups.com, "gwendolyngrace" 
<gwendolyngrace at y...> wrote:
> It's Gwen, making a very rare guest appearance on an HPFGU list. 

Guest appearance?  Doesn't that imply that someone has expressly 
invited you for a particular reason?  Considering that your post 
consists of the same old prententious, elitist, self-centered blather 
you always spew, I find that hard to believe.

> My, 
> this has been an interesting discussion, and I mean that in a very 
> Chinese sense. 

Chinese sense? What does that mean?

> Okay, so on the subjects of TBAY, FILK, and similar things.
> 
> First off, those folks who are on the Admin Team (whatever the heck 
> you call it now): 

I'm pretty sure it's called the Admin Team.

> So when you asked here about TBAY, and within a few posts, people 
> were asking why it should be allowed, please, remember that no 
> decision needs to be final forever. If there's a compelling reason 
to 
> revisit the question, please, don't be afraid to do so.

> Because I think there are still compelling reasons, the same sorts 
of 
> reasons I and a couple others tried to argue in April and November. 

What you are really saying is that Gwen still doesn't like TBAY, 
therefore the admin team has a compelling reason to reconsider 
banning it.

> "I feel quite 
> uncomfortable with the idea of posting a non TBAY reply to a TBAY 
> post - but it seems to me that TBAY posters have little problem 
with 
> the idea of taking a thread that is being discussed in a 
> straightforward fashion and TBAYing it."

Why?  What could possibly happen if you took an idea you've read in a 
TBAY post and discussed it in a non-TBAY manner?  Would the list 
explode?

> I honestly blame TBAY for much of the downward slide list quality 
has 
> taken over the last 2 years – from the moment people started 
> inserting themselves into the action, instead of remaining 
observers.

Is there any evidence at all to back this up, or any evidence that 
more than maybe 1/1000 of 1% of our membership feels that way?

> I have no problem with cleverness, but 
> being clever for the sake of being clever is
well, it's smug.

Are you sure you're not just jealous?

> Now, the question has come up here and before as to whether or not 
> TBAY should be splintered to its own list. While a few people 
believe 
> that it might flourish there on its own, where its devotees can 
spin 
> their webs of theory to their hearts' content, most everyone – 
> detractors and supporters alike – feel that to move TBAY would kill 
> it.
> 
> You know what? I agree.

I'm not surprised.

> What am I saying here? I'm saying that TBAY was preserved because 
> moderators on the mod team wanted it to stick around, and because 
> they defended it maniacally, almost to the point of hysteria, when 
it 
> was attacked. 

Oh, please.  Some people defended it and some didn't.  It was allowed 
to remain because a lot of people enjoy it.

 I said I'd talk about FILK, so I'll talk about FILK briefly (well, 
> more briefly than I did TBAY). I'm a freelance songwriter, 
including 
> many filks, mostly for an organization called the SCA, along with a 
> few other sci-fi con type songs. I have enough written and they're 
> well-enough liked that I am working on putting together a CD of my 
> songs for sale in that organization. I am an unembarrassed filk 
snob.

At least you admit it.
 
> Most HP filks make me break out in hives.

Gwen thinks they're bad, therefore the rest of humanity should not be 
allowed to exhibit them anywhere near Gwen.

> If I 
> *ever* write another HP filk, she has standing orders to kill me 
> where I stand.

We can only hope.

> You might think that all this is leading up to another diatribe on 
> why filk shouldn't be allowed. Wrong. I detest HP filk because so 
> much of it, forgive me Caius, absolutely stinks. 

Oh, puhleeze.  What makes you an authority?

> It's the same reason 
> that although I help run FictionAlley, I hardly ever read fanfic.

The fanfic isn't good enough for you either.  Not surprising.

> Most people cannot write anything worth the cyberspace it's 
published 
> in. 

You are such an elitist it's unbelievable.  You know what, Gwen?  
You're right that there's a lot of poor quality writing out there.  
There are a lot of bad filks and a lot of lousy fanfiction and 
probably some lousy TBAY posts, too.  But there's an easy solution to 
that problem -- don't read it.

That's what I do.  I don't read TBAY because I can't get into it.  I 
read filks sometimes; if the first few lines don't scan, I stop 
reading it.  I rarely read fanfic.  I follow that rule with other 
stuff I read.  If I buy a book and it doesn't hold my interest after 
the first few pages, I stop reading it and then I don't buy anything 
by that author again.  But what I don't do is get on a soapbox and 
rant about the poor quality of everything that I don't like and whine 
about how it should be banned, banned, banned, so I don't have to 
dirty my hands with the filthy droppings of the unwashed masses.

And yes, I know I'm being extremely rude and intolerant and I'll 
probably get howlered.  But I hate the way you prance onto center 
stage once in a blue moon, make your divisive, ill-tempered little 
pronouncements, and then flounce back into your dressing room.  Your 
diatribe against TBAY is ridiculous.  If you don't like it, don't 
read it.  End of story.

--Joywitch, grumpily