It's Not A TBAY Problem

[lucky_kari at lucky_kari.yahoo.invalid]

--- In HPFGU-Feedback at yahoogroups.com, "Doriane" <delwynmarch at y...> wrote:
> Somebody please quote a snippet of TBAY here and point out the 
> > other-than-English words for me. (I *understand* this "foreign-
> > language" argument is metaphor. Somewhat like TBAY is sometimes. 
> > Isn't *that* ironic?)
> 
> LOL ! Yep, it is :-)
> Anyway. To explain my problem, I'll quote Pippin who wrote :
> "Consider the end of CoS. Diary!Tom, a man of letters, literally
> literal-minded and prosaic, can not be defeated by the sword of
> Gryffindor. The pen is mightier. But he underestimates the
> power of symbols, and so he is destroyed by a songbird (faith),
> a sleeping virgin(hope) and old clothes (charity)."
> Well, when I read that, my mind just went blank. I do recognize that 
> she's speaking English, I know all the words here, but I don't get 
> the concepts at all. I have so many questions I don't even know where 
> to start ! Why would a songbird represent faith ? Why would a 
> sleeping virgin represent hope, or old clothes charity ? What's the 
> relationship between "a man of letters, literally literal-minded and 
> prosaic" and the fact that he can't be defeated by the sword of 
> Gryffindor ??
> Don't you see ? She's using a whole background of concepts and 
> symbols I've never even heard of. Which is exactly the same as using 
> words I don't know, as far as I am concerned.

Well, well well.

This just confirms to my mind that this isn't a TBAY problem. Because
that post of Pippin's wasn't an example of TBAY. It was an example of
a regular type post that uses the same idea as TBAY. 

And Pippin's got a point. Would people who don't understand TBAY
necessarily understand us TBAY-posters *outside* of TBAY? I rather
suspect they wouldn't. The things that make TBAY difficult to
understand sometimes are not the traditions and such (there really are
less than people think, and the background's *always* changing, which
is why a map of the place would be counterproductive and make TBAY
*harder* to do).... The things that make TBAY difficult are the leaps
of the intellect in the land of metaphors. Some people, believe it or
not, follow along quite nicely without any previous introduction to
the Bay. For example, I gave the Crouch Novenna to a friend to read
with no background about HPFGU, the Bay etc. and he understood it all
perfectly. He thought that the symbols and such were completely
self-evident. I must admit that I work along the same lines. I haven't
read every TBAY post myself, and lately very few, but I can *always*
understand TBAY. It's not *about* having a key, *about* having the
history. It's about having a mind that thinks that way. 

Sure some history wouldn't hurt for those who'd a) like it, b) have
just been introduced to this style of discourse and aren't sure
whether it suits them yet, but if one doesn't think that way, a primer
isn't exactly going to help.

And this would be the same for posts on the main list. Let it be noted
that whenever Elkins posted in non-TBAY format, there were an awful
lot of people who immediately proved that they didn't *follow* her. In
fact, one of the reasons I like posting on TBAY is that it thins out
the responses that go along the lines, "I have no idea what you just
said," or "You said X" when I thought it was clear I said nothing of
the sort. 

Of course, TBAY probably takes things further than the main-list
might, which is why some people who appreciate TBAYers' posts off the
Bay might be upset to miss them when they're on the Bay.

But it might not be that TBAYers could make more sense off the Bay
proposing the same theories. I rather suspect that the reason someone
feels inclined to take one's theory to the Bay (in most cases - some
people obviously just find the format fun) is that they can express
themselves better there, that they *couldn't* explain things to their
satisfaction off the Bay. I know this was the genesis of the Crouch
Novenna, for example. There were issues there to be addressed that
Elkins *couldn't* take on off-Bay, and if she had, believe it or not,
it would have been *longer* and more confusing. Someone said the
Novenna would have better if it had just stated its theories flatly.
Well, this is to get rid of half of what the Novenna said. Just for
one example, it would infuriate me, since the Novenna was a curiously
self-undermining text. It's meant to make you emotionally involved
with the HP Crouch subplot, and for countless people, it does. And not
into rabid Crouch Sr. haters either, curiously enough. I've referred
plenty of people to the novenna, who have come out absolutely besotted
with the elder Crouch as a flawed but very sympathetic character, and
plenty who come out the other way. TBAY often addresses the issue of
reader response - which is completely on topic on the list, btw - and
how it works.

And to prove my point, I'm sure the above made little sense to some
people reading this post, 

Eileen, who commented to her beta reader once, "It's not *my* fault I
think like Robert Browning!"