[HPFGU-Feedback] Re: What Price Success? Improving Posting Quality on HPfGU

[elfundeb]

Thanks to everyone who posted comments.  So many people have commented on the same things that instead of quotes, I'll just address each topic.  I tried to touch on everything, but I'm sure I missed something.  I'm speaking for myself, of course.

POSTING LIMITS

I was initially uncomfortable with posting limits, but have come around to thinking that a voluntary posting limit (essentially a rule of thumb) is a good idea in the sense that it should motivate people to want to make their posts count, so that they will be more likely to (a) read the entire thread before posting, (b) post only if they have something new to say, and (c) combine all responses on the same topic into a single post.  (I tend to find that the longer, combined posts often are more thoughtful and analytical.)  In addition to the posting limit itself, amendments to the Humongous Bigfile to encourage (or require) these things would also help improve list quality.  

I imagine that the 24 hours would be a rolling limit (i.e., has the poster posted more than 3 times in the last 24 hours).  And while the elves don't have enough manpower to count everyone's posts, frequent posters are easy to spot.

HOW TO COMBINE POSTS

Someone mentioned that a "how to" would be very helpful.  As someone who was on the list for months before I figured out how to combine, I agree.  I have drafted up some language, but it's not quite ready for prime time.  

BURIAL OF GREAT POSTS IN THE DELUGE

One of the motivating factors for establishing a posting limit is to slow the pace at which these posts disappear from the front page.  Once that happens, it's not likely to get as much response.

Until the catalogue is ready for prime time, there are also two potentially helpful databases in the Database section of the list, which list posts that have been recommended as good reading by a member.   It has just come to my attention that Humongous Bigfile does not mention these databases; we're going to fix this in the next revision.

More importantly, I would welcome recommendations to add to the databases -- especially well written posts and/or humorous posts containing in-depth analysis, addressing unique theories, etc.  I have a list of some of these (which I culled from various sources -- they're not based on my own opinion) that I just haven't been able to add yet, so yours may be on the list, but please contact me or the list owner's mailbox if you have suggestions.

CLOSING LIST TO NEW MEMBERSHIP AT HBP RELEASE

I understand the concern that newbies can overwhelm the list at peak times.  However, probably a lot of us wouldn't be members if the list stopped accepting new members during peak times, as a very high percentage of us joined during peak periods.  I'd rather focus on controlling the quality of the posts that do appear (at least the technical quality -- we can't make people write great posts!).

For those who weren't around for OOP release, the list was closed for 45 hours, from midnight in the UK on Friday night until Sunday evening.  We did not close the list to new members:  100 speedreaders joined on Saturday and an equal number on Sunday before the list reopened.  (Our normal join rate is 10-20 per day.)  As I recall, 45 hours was selected instead of 48 so that members in Europe would not all be asleep when the list reopened.
 
Among the tools we didn't use at OOP release that we could use more aggressively this time for those who ignore posting rules:  remoderating old members (too many people don't read the email account of record for their membership, so they don't see Howlers); withdrawing posting privileges from moderated members until they send us an email confirming that they've read the posting rules and the FAQ.  

READ-ONLY PERIOD FOR NEWBIES

I personally think this is a great idea (though no more than a week, or until they have sent an email confirming that they've read the HBFile and VFAQs).  To make this work, though, all members would have to be automatically set to "no posting" and I understand (I do not know this for a fact because I am a Luddite), that Yahoo does not allow this setting to be changed, so that we'd have to migrate to a new list.  I do know that new Yahoogroups don't have all the space etc. as the old groups.

POSTING  HIATUS

A two-week no-posting period has been proposed to follow HBP release.  A VFAQ would be prepared and released before reopening.

I believe such a long hiatus would be a bad thing, for a number of reasons.   We would lose some excellent new members, and possibly some excellent old members, to other lists.  While HPFGU would certainly thrive with fewer members than it has, fresh members with fresh ideas are the lifeblood of our discussions.

I also don't think it would do anything to solve for list volume and repetitiveness.  What if everyone prepared 2-3 posts on their most significant thoughts about HBP and they all posted when the list reopened?  Instead of members being disappointed because someone has already posted their thought, we might have hundreds of near-simultaneous posts on the same topic.  Everyone would instantly be thousands of posts behind, possibly with little inclination to wade through the repetition.  

It was bad enough when the list reopened last time, even though the slow readers and those that must juggle RL (including myself) had not yet finished reading.  I think it's better if the quick readers are allowed to post right away.

POSTING AN FAQ BEFORE REOPENING THE LIST

The OOP FAQ was published within 3-4 days, and was written for us for someone who was not on the admin team.  (We were too busy handling the hundreds of new members each day and the 300 or so pending messages from moderated members.)
If we could get a HBP FAQ out within a day or so of reopening the list (otherwise we would strip some sharp-eyed member of the glory of discovering the HBP equivalent of the thestrals!), and insist that people read it, that might be a big help.  We can also insist that people do a quick search on Yahoomort before posting their thestral-like questions; it's cumbersome, but not overly so if you're only going back a few hundred posts or so.  I remember doing this before making my first post-OOP post.

There's also the problem that some of the elves might totally miss some of the big issues, so that whatever we did, the FAQ might be deficient.  I had never given a moment's thought to Dumbledore's gleam before I read it in the FAQs here.  We would need much help from listmembers to spot things, and even more help to brave Yahoomort and search for previous relevant posts.

Many people enjoyed the post-OOP posting frenzy.  I admit that I couldn't keep up with the volume, but that was partly because I was spending a lot of my limited spare time on messages from new moderated members, many of whom clearly had not read the posting rules in advance.  I wouldn't want to put a damper on everyone's excitement.  For those who can't wait even 48 hours to discuss the books, we could allow discussion on OTC.  

POLLING THE LIST

This is definitely an option.  I believe we polled the list on closing for OOP.

SOLICITING GOOD ANALYSIS

One of the suggestions was for (1) tasking some rabble-rousers to post a piece of well-researched analysis each week, (2) special guest posts by HP authors etc., (3) revisiting some old Fantastic Posts, and (4) digests of off-list discussions.

Yes, these are good ideas.  Anyone want to sign up for #1 or #3?  Actually, the listmembers are doing #3 on their own, and adding new questions to refocus the discussion in light of new canon.  This has been a very good development, I think.  Regarding #2, posting links to provocative articles would also be good, even if we can't drag someone in.  We could also ask members to write reviews of new HP articles and books, something that has sometimes sparked discussion in the past.  Obviously, #4 would be welcome on the list, too, except we'll have to rely on the people having those discussions to get permission from the participants before posting.

And, we are planning new structured discussions now that the Chapter Discussions are finished, to begin very shortly.

Finally, I want to thank Kjirstem for directing us to

<<Theresa
Nielsen Hayden's blog regarding conversations on the internet, 
http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/006036.html#006036
>>

There were a couple of excellent points in this post:

"2. Once you have a well-established online conversation space, with enough regulars to explain the local mores to newcomers, they'll do a lot of the policing themselves.
7. Things to cherish: Your regulars. A sense of community. Real expertise. Genuine engagement with the subject under discussion. Outstanding performances. Helping others. Cooperation in maintenance of a good conversation. All these things should be rewarded with your attention and praise.>>
I think these are quite applicable to HPFGU.  For example, many times a thread threatening to get out of hand has been brought back within the rules by a well-placed comment by a regular poster.  At the same time, all members can help maintain the sense of community; for example, if you see a great post and have something to add to it, don't forget to compliment the poster.  I've often read a post because of a positive downthread reference, even if I wasn't originally interested in the topic.  It can get awkward for the elves to highlight great posts on a current basis (except to respond, which is hard to do if we agree) because it might look like favoritism, but other members have no such constraints.

Thoughts?  More ideas?  Rotten tomatoes?  All are welcome.

Debbie 


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