From rkdas at susanbones2003.yahoo.invalid  Thu Jan  7 23:43:06 2010
From: rkdas at susanbones2003.yahoo.invalid (jennifer)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 23:43:06 -0000
Subject: A suggestion to the Elves and Moderators
In-Reply-To: <hh5vhv+r105@...>
Message-ID: <hi5ria+daj9@...>



--- In HPFGU-Feedback at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince" <catlady at ...> wrote:
>
> As you recall, the reason that fanfic and recipes and movies and everything were exiled to their own lists is because this Main List was getting too crowded and people wanted to hold it down to approximately 500 posts a week. I believe that at this time, the other lists could be rolled back in to this one and the limit of 5 posts per person per day could be dropped. Because we would still be under 500 posts a week. Maybe even the ban on 'ROTFL' and 'I agree' posts could be dropped.

Personally, I think we could roll everything but "off-topic" into one. I don't want to wade through recipes and chat to get to Harry stuff. But, I'd love to have a place to do those things and not feel completely inane. I don't think we should drop the ban on "me too" posts. That was a good ban. Even with far fewer posts, we still need quality posts only. 
Many thanks,
Jennifer 
>





From adragh at adragh.yahoo.invalid  Fri Jan  8 01:08:37 2010
From: adragh at adragh.yahoo.invalid (Patricia C Vener)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 20:08:37 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Feedback] Re: A suggestion to the Elves and Moderators
In-Reply-To: <hi5ria+daj9@...>
References: <hh5vhv+r105@...> <hi5ria+daj9@...>
Message-ID: <c3e5e90d1001071708i40bb8e97lecf1eec26af2c8ef@...>

I agree that all HP related posts could be folded into the main group again.
Definitely keep the ban on "me too" and other superfluous posts unless
something of substance is added somewhere within. And very definitely keep
the ban on OT posts as those can easily grow too numerous with additions.

I have no opinion on the number of posts per day limit as in some cases a
poster can have a lot of relevant things to say one day and very little to
add another day. Maybe if things get out of hand a limit per week could be
imposed?

Patricia
Patricia C. Vener -- Dancer, Artist, Rogue Astronomer
Receive my Newsletter: http://tinyurl.com/q9tw79
http://vener-art.com/
and http://vener-art.com/beadblog/
http://SilverDragon.etsy.com/
http://www.1000markets.com/users/silverdragon/
http://twitter.com/AgDrgn/
?Art Is Nutrition for the Soul? -- Patricia C Vener


On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 6:43 PM, jennifer <rkdas at ...> wrote:

>
>
> --- In HPFGU-Feedback at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince" <catlady at ...>
> wrote:
> >
> > As you recall, the reason that fanfic and recipes and movies and
> everything were exiled to their own lists is because this Main List was
> getting too crowded and people wanted to hold it down to approximately 500
> posts a week. I believe that at this time, the other lists could be rolled
> back in to this one and the limit of 5 posts per person per day could be
> dropped. Because we would still be under 500 posts a week. Maybe even the
> ban on 'ROTFL' and 'I agree' posts could be dropped.
>
> Personally, I think we could roll everything but "off-topic" into one. I
> don't want to wade through recipes and chat to get to Harry stuff. But, I'd
> love to have a place to do those things and not feel completely inane. I
> don't think we should drop the ban on "me too" posts. That was a good ban.
> Even with far fewer posts, we still need quality posts only.
> Many thanks,
> Jennifer
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From willsonkmom at potioncat.yahoo.invalid  Fri Jan  8 15:08:52 2010
From: willsonkmom at potioncat.yahoo.invalid (potioncat)
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 15:08:52 -0000
Subject: A suggestion to the Elves and Moderators
In-Reply-To: <hh5vhv+r105@...>
Message-ID: <hi7hq4+tq2m@...>



I wasn't here when this was one list. So how would it work? Would there be something in the subject line to identify a post as canon-based, move-based or OT? Or would it be a jumble of posts about anything? 

Potioncat




From n2fgc at lee_storm.yahoo.invalid  Fri Jan  8 16:15:05 2010
From: n2fgc at lee_storm.yahoo.invalid (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 11:15:05 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Feedback] Re: A suggestion to the Elves and Moderators
In-Reply-To: <hi7hq4+tq2m@...>
References: <hh5vhv+r105@...> <hi7hq4+tq2m@...>
Message-ID: <6416FE9FB4334C35912F20EE72CE31F6@FRODO>

Hi All,

Personally, I like having an OTChat list.  Yes, I know it's been quiet of
late, but it is a great place for more intimacy, I think.  Perhaps two
lists: one for all HP-related topics and one for a place to "let your hair
down," as McGonagall would say.  When the next movie comes out, this may
need to be re-toold to three lists again, but, for now, I'm happy with the
OT list.

Smiles,

Lee




From bboyminn at bboyminn.yahoo.invalid  Fri Jan  8 16:58:23 2010
From: bboyminn at bboyminn.yahoo.invalid (bboyminn)
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 16:58:23 -0000
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One
Message-ID: <hi7o7f+aou7@...>

I can see blending the HP-Movie (HPFGU-Moive) and the HP-Books 
(HPforGrownUps)into one group, especially now that the discussion
count is pretty low. 

But, I think it would be nice to keep the HPFGU-OTChatter as
a separate entity. We have discussed a wide range of completely
unrelated to HP things there, and it is nice to have that 
forum of friends to ask questions and discuss things at random
that I wouldn't feel quite right posting in the main group. 

I do think that, now that the post count is more reasonable,
that discussing the books and movie together in one group is
appropriate, but I would really miss the OTChatter if it was
gone.

As I said, we discuss things in OTChatter that really can't
be discussed in the main group even if the rule did tolerate
it. Also, I think if you allow OTChatter in the main group
eventually it just becomes a general discussion group that
has little to do with HP.

I'm also all for allowing some tangential discussion in the
main group. In some cases incidences that occur in the books
lead us to discussion of life in general, and as the general
discussion goes on, it touches less and less on HP specifically,
but is non-the less spawned by HP.

However, if the discussion get way too far off the beam, it
could and should then be move to OTChatter. 

Just one man's opinion.

Steve/bboyminn




From bonsaikathy at ac4lb.yahoo.invalid  Fri Jan  8 18:10:30 2010
From: bonsaikathy at ac4lb.yahoo.invalid (ac4lb)
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 18:10:30 -0000
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One
In-Reply-To: <hi7o7f+aou7@...>
Message-ID: <hi7sem+nlp3@...>


I think it's a good idea combining the lists. 

Kathy




From gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid  Fri Jan  8 20:03:45 2010
From: gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid (Geoff)
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 20:03:45 -0000
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One
In-Reply-To: <hi82v0+n6vr@...>
Message-ID: <hi8331+2ve2@...>


Geoff:
I am repeating this post which I sent to OT as well.

I incline to the same view as have several other contributors,
I know that many of us visit both groups; I spent many years
just posting to Main but more recently have spent a lot more
time on OT. It is also true that there are often Main-related
posts because a thread goes OT but we want to follow it up.

I know that the suggestion partly because of the low posting
rate. During December, OTC went for a fortnight with only two
posts - and these were weekly chat reminders - but the most
noticeable was Movie which did not have a single post between
20th September and 9th December.

I think that this compromise suggestion does carry a lot of weight.





From kelley_thompson at kelleyscorpio.yahoo.invalid  Fri Jan  8 21:14:34 2010
From: kelley_thompson at kelleyscorpio.yahoo.invalid (kelleyscorpio)
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 21:14:34 -0000
Subject: A suggestion to the Elves and Moderators
In-Reply-To: <hi7hq4+tq2m@...>
Message-ID: <hi877q+kn19@...>

> Potioncat:
> I wasn't here when this was one list. So how would 
it work? Would there be something in the subject line 
to identify a post as canon-based, move-based or OT? 
Or would it be a jumble of posts about anything? 
> 

Kelley:
If you look at the first few pages of messages on main, 
it was pretty much like that, minus the egroups-into-yahoo
stuff.  So yeah, jumble of posts about anything, that's 
kind of what it was.  But it was only like that for a few 
months after main was moved to Yahgroups because there was 
enough off-topic discussion on main that it seemed a good 
idea to go ahead and create OTC.

Fwiw, in my mind, what it boils down to is 'what will we
allow on main?'  Meaning I can't see us actually closing
Movie or Announcements, but rather letting them be as 
they are and allowing posts that would go to Announcements, 
discussions from Movie to happen on main.  I was already
thinking that we'd all want OTC to remain for the non-HP
stuff, and it seems like most of us feel that way from
what people are saying, so that's good.

For those who aren't on Announcements, you can see it here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Announcements/messages

That's basically the whole past year's worth of posts right
there, so guess we can figure 30 or so posts added to main
if we allow.

And Movie, discussion there comes and goes; if it seemed
necessary we could always have folks put a prefix in the
subject line, though I doubt we really need that.

Aside from the above, we could also begin allowing intro 
posts on main, too.  Because of how easily those can start
an o-t thread, we'd always asked people to send those to 
OTC or add their intro to their first discussion post. But
it feels really unfriendly and unwelcoming to return those
posts, so my preference would be for us to allow them and
to just post an admin reminder if the thread gets carried
away.  (Don't get me wrong, there *should* be replies when
a post like that is made, I'd hate for no one to respond
to an intro post.  It's just when the thread threatens to
go beyond the 'welcomes' into "Omg, you live in Unionville?
I went to school there!  Is that diner on the corner of 3rd
and Main still there?" that some people can start to get 
annoyed.)  What does everyone think about that?

One other occasional type of post are the ones from people
doing their thesis or whatever on fandoms or adult fans of
HP and they want to ask people on main to go answer their
questionnaire.  Right now we send those to Announcements 
and OTC.  Main seems like the best place for the person
making the request, but for list members who've seen a few
of those requests they start to feel spammy after a while.
So, I'd like to know how people feel about this sort of
thing, too.

--Kelley




From brian at brigrove.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jan  9 11:09:23 2010
From: brian at brigrove.yahoo.invalid (Brian)
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 08:09:23 -0300
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One
Message-ID: <4B4863E3.8080604@...>

My personal opinion is that it makes sense to merge the HP lists into 
one list, but keep OffTpoic separate.
But Off Topic should BE nothing to do with HP

At the moment, if I am correct Off Topic includes HP fanfics which 
doesn't seem very Off Topic to me.
Perhaps allow fanfics into main or have a separate group for fanfics?

Just my 2c

Brian



From n2fgc at lee_storm.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jan  9 12:35:47 2010
From: n2fgc at lee_storm.yahoo.invalid (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 07:35:47 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Feedback] Re: A suggestion to the Elves and Moderators
In-Reply-To: <hi877q+kn19@...>
References: <hi7hq4+tq2m@...> <hi877q+kn19@...>
Message-ID: <B7F021E647D9491FA6F2C26B890CF044@FRODO>

Hi,

I'm not going to cut-&-paste on Kelly's post, just express my thoughts.

When I first started, I started on the Main List, so I did intro there, but
with a topical post, I believe.  Perhaps there might be something added to
the Main List Rules about how to intro and/or how to respond to intro posts?

As far as requests to answer surveys or other types of questions for papers,
etc., I somehow think that kind of thing should stay on OTChat or
announcements, INHO.  My feeling is that answering some of these requests
can lead to OT threads, often times.

Peace,

Lee :-)

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at ... (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at ...
Walk beside me, and be my friend.




From catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jan  9 18:10:53 2010
From: catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid (Catlady (Rita Prince)
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 18:10:53 -0000
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One
In-Reply-To: <4B4863E3.8080604@...>
Message-ID: <hiagrd+rhns@...>

--- In HPFGU-Feedback at yahoogroups.com, Brian <brian at ...> wrote:
>
> My personal opinion is that it makes sense to merge the HP lists into 
> one list, but keep OffTpoic separate.
> But Off Topic should BE nothing to do with HP
> 
> At the moment, if I am correct Off Topic includes HP fanfics which 
> doesn't seem very Off Topic to me.
> Perhaps allow fanfics into main or have a separate group for fanfics?

I vote for allowing Fanfic discussion into Main List.





From willsonkmom at potioncat.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jan  9 18:28:31 2010
From: willsonkmom at potioncat.yahoo.invalid (Kathy Willson)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 13:28:31 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Feedback] Re: Consolidating All the Groups into One
In-Reply-To: <hiagrd+rhns@...>
References: <4B4863E3.8080604@...>,<hiagrd+rhns@...>
Message-ID: <SNT131-w1162603529799F90AA4509AD6F0@...>


I realise this is somewhat OT to this discussion....but IS there any fanfic now?

Potioncat
 


To: HPFGU-Feedback at yahoogroups.com
From: catlady at wicca.net
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 18:10:53 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Feedback] Re: Consolidating All the Groups into One

  



--- In HPFGU-Feedback at yahoogroups.com, Brian <brian at ...> wrote:
>
> My personal opinion is that it makes sense to merge the HP lists into 
> one list, but keep OffTpoic separate.
> But Off Topic should BE nothing to do with HP
> 
> At the moment, if I am correct Off Topic includes HP fanfics which 
> doesn't seem very Off Topic to me.
> Perhaps allow fanfics into main or have a separate group for fanfics?

I vote for allowing Fanfic discussion into Main List.




 		 	   		  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jan  9 19:01:33 2010
From: gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid (Geoff)
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 19:01:33 -0000
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One
In-Reply-To: <SNT131-w1162603529799F90AA4509AD6F0@...>
Message-ID: <hiajqd+m0fj@...>

--- In HPFGU-Feedback at yahoogroups.com, Kathy Willson <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:

Potioncat:
> I realise this is somewhat OT to this discussion....but IS there any fanfic now? 

Geoff:
Stacks of it. If you go to www.fanfiction.net just to mention one s
ite, it is swimming in Harry Potter stuff and there's plenty of 
up-to-date postings.




From n2fgc at lee_storm.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jan  9 19:15:03 2010
From: n2fgc at lee_storm.yahoo.invalid (Lee Storm (God Is The Healing Force))
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 14:15:03 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Feedback] Re: Consolidating All the Groups into One
In-Reply-To: <hiagrd+rhns@...>
References: <4B4863E3.8080604@...> <hiagrd+rhns@...>
Message-ID: <3EB14986BDF6499E814B418068888331@FRODO>

[Catlady]:
| I vote for allowing Fanfic discussion into Main List.

[Lee]:
Perhaps we can opt to put serious HP fic (the type that is true to the
story) on Main, all the other fic on the OT list (parodies, etc.)
Personally, I don't have any specific thoughts on the fic issue, but that's
one compromise I can think of implementing.

Cheers,

Lee

Do not walk behind me,    | Lee Storm
I may not care to lead;   | N2FGC
Do not walk before me,    | n2fgc at ... (or)
I may not care to follow; | n2fgc at ...
Walk beside me, and be my friend.




From ingridbirgitta at angelfish_se.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jan  9 18:46:03 2010
From: ingridbirgitta at angelfish_se.yahoo.invalid (Birgitta Karlsson)
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 19:46:03 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-Feedback] Re: Consolidating All the Groups into One
In-Reply-To: <hiagrd+rhns@...>
References: <hiagrd+rhns@...>
Message-ID: <4B48CEEB.3070200@...>


Brian <brian at ...> wrote:
> My personal opinion is that it makes sense to merge the 
HP lists into one list, but keep OffTpoic separate.
> But Off Topic should BE nothing to do with HP
>
> At the moment, if I am correct Off Topic includes HP 
fanfics which doesn't seem very Off Topic to me.
Perhaps allow fanfics into main or have a separate 
group for fanfics?
>     

 
 Birgitta:
Please don't allow fanfic discussion on the main list. 
Personally I like that there are different groups and 
I hope that it stays that way.






From susiequsie23 at cubfanbudwoman.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jan 10 05:14:09 2010
From: susiequsie23 at cubfanbudwoman.yahoo.invalid (Susan Albrecht)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 21:14:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-Feedback] Re: Consolidating All the Groups into One
In-Reply-To: <hiagrd+rhns@...>
References: <hiagrd+rhns@...>
Message-ID: <801502.49303.qm@...>

Brian:
> > My personal opinion is that it makes sense to merge the HP lists into 
> > one list, but keep OffTpoic separate.
> > But Off Topic should BE nothing to do with HP
> > 
> > At the moment, if I am correct Off Topic includes HP fanfics which 
> > doesn't seem very Off Topic to me.
> > Perhaps allow fanfics into main or have a separate group for fanfics?

Catlady:
> I vote for allowing Fanfic discussion into Main List.
> 

SSSusan:
Personally, I would detest having fanfic discussion at Main.

Siriusly Snapey Susan




From ceridwennight at ceridwennight.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jan 10 12:19:45 2010
From: ceridwennight at ceridwennight.yahoo.invalid (Ceridwen)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 12:19:45 -0000
Subject: A suggestion to the Elves and Moderators
In-Reply-To: <hi877q+kn19@...>
Message-ID: <hicgl1+41lk@...>

> Kelley:
> Fwiw, in my mind, what it boils down to is 'what will we
> allow on main?'  Meaning I can't see us actually closing
> Movie or Announcements, but rather letting them be as 
> they are and allowing posts that would go to Announcements, 
> discussions from Movie to happen on main.  I was already
> thinking that we'd all want OTC to remain for the non-HP
> stuff, and it seems like most of us feel that way from
> what people are saying, so that's good.
> 
> Aside from the above, we could also begin allowing intro 
> posts on main, too...
> 
> One other occasional type of post are the ones from people
> doing their thesis or whatever on fandoms or adult fans of
> HP and they want to ask people on main to go answer their
> questionnaire...

Ceridwen:
Announcements and movie discussions could easily go to Main, I think.  Announcements are usually HP related or no one would want to post at this group; movie stuff is directly related to canon.  I like the idea of keeping Off-Topic Chatter separate.  The research and thesis posts could be announced on Main but followed up on OTC since some of the discussion could get OT from canon discussion as the student or researcher gets deeper into the study.  Members might feel more inclined to "let their hair down" as Lee put it, on OTC because it is a more informal board.

I'm of two minds about fanfic.  Referencing it to show how others have interpreted the books and movies, in other words, some canon connection, would be interesting to everyone on the lists, I think, but discussion solely about a particular fanfic or posting fanfic itself might be better off on OTC since some fics tend to stray pretty wide of either the books or the movies, think alternate pairings.  I would still see discussion about a subgroup of fics, say Snape-Mentors-Harry fics in general, or Evil Dumbledore fics in general, would have connection to canon as the clues were picked up on from the books or movies.  Why these clues were picked up, what made the authors see these things, IMO would be legitimate canon-style discussion.

In other words, I like the separation, I just think we don't need as much separation with the lists so quiet.  Just my opinion.

Ceridwen.




From marchrpea at marchrpea.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jan 10 16:39:37 2010
From: marchrpea at marchrpea.yahoo.invalid (marchrpea)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 16:39:37 -0000
Subject: Combining groups
Message-ID: <hicvs9+119io@...>

I hope they stay seperate. I didn't like the movies.
~Christie 




From puduhepa98 at nikkalmati.yahoo.invalid  Mon Jan 11 03:40:45 2010
From: puduhepa98 at nikkalmati.yahoo.invalid (nikkalmati)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 03:40:45 -0000
Subject: Consolidating all the groups into one
Message-ID: <hie6jt+ddo3@...>

Are we sure the slowdown is permanent?  It seemed to happen very suddenly over the holiday.  I would rather keep the movies and fanfic separate.  Nikkalmati




From gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid  Tue Jan 12 20:47:36 2010
From: gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid (Geoff)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 20:47:36 -0000
Subject: How have the posts moved?
Message-ID: <hiin58+aln8@...>

Geoff:
An interesting exercise for me has been to look 
at how the posting totals have moved.

For the last 6 months of 2009, the three groups 
mainly concerned showed the following:

              Jul   Aug   Sep   Oct    Nov   Dec
Main    280  195   210   436   234   120
OTC     182    91   147   124     41     10
Movie   475  218    12        0       0     27

The average totals per month for the year 2009 are:

Main   289
OTC    156
Movie 119

OTC, to an extent is a maverick because, as many 
of you have pointed out, threads go off all over the 
place at random, hence there are likely to be fluctuations.

Main showed some highs and lows, the surge in October 
being interesting and probably helping to shove the 
average up.

But the intriguing result is the collapse in the Movie 
figures. There was the probably to be expected surge in 
posts when HBP hit the cinemas in July but this seemed 
to tail off quickly and the complete hiatus for two months
looks completely inexplicable. My only conclusion would 
be that this does seem to support the frequently voiced 
opinion that a merger between Main and Movie appears
a reasonable way forward to consider - if we finally decide 
that we need to dismantle the existing structure - leaving
OTC to dwell in its own little world.









From tonks_op at tonks_op.yahoo.invalid  Wed Jan 13 07:48:52 2010
From: tonks_op at tonks_op.yahoo.invalid (Tonks)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 07:48:52 -0000
Subject: A suggestion to the Elves and Moderators
In-Reply-To: <hi5ria+daj9@...>
Message-ID: <hijtt4+umcq@...>



--- In HPFGU-Feedback at yahoogroups.com, "jennifer" <rkdas at ...> wrote:
> Personally, I think we could roll everything but "off-topic" into one. I don't want to wade through recipes and chat to get to Harry stuff. But, I'd love to have a place to do those things and not feel completely inane. I don't think we should drop the ban on "me too" posts. That was a good ban. Even with far fewer posts, we still need quality posts only. 


Tonks_op

I agree with the idea of two list. The main one for canon things about Harry Potter books, movies and the like. The Off Topic one for everything else.

Tonks_op




From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Wed Jan 13 15:14:51 2010
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com (kenadams705@...)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 15:14:51 -0000
Subject: Consolidation
Message-ID: <hiko1b+hitd@...>

Just to add my vote. I agree with most mailers that argue for combining
Main and Movies. Movies is in any case unlikely to survive much beyond DHII, so a decision is inevitable in the foreseeable future.
I would argue for the retention of chatter because it allows many interesting, if not strictly related topics, to be aired.
KEN




From roulston112131 at roulston112131.yahoo.invalid  Wed Jan 13 18:17:34 2010
From: roulston112131 at roulston112131.yahoo.invalid (Ruth Roulston)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 10:17:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Combine Groups
Message-ID: <958916.4900.qm@...>

Yes, combine the groups to the main list.? We don't want to lose each other!??? RR


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From Mhochberg at techmom236.yahoo.invalid  Wed Jan 13 18:46:24 2010
From: Mhochberg at techmom236.yahoo.invalid (Mhochberg at techmom236.yahoo.invalid)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 13:46:24 -0500
Subject: A suggestion to the Elves and Moderators
Message-ID: <8CC6297D70D8686-4398-10B22@...>


 I agree with Tonks. One list for canon (Main, Movies) and another list for everything else (OTC). I may not post much but I do want to keep reading from people I admire.

 

---Mary
http://techmom236.wordpress.com/
?The clash of ideas is the sound of freedom.?   -- Lady Bird Johnson




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid  Wed Jan 13 21:07:19 2010
From: gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid (Geoff)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 21:07:19 -0000
Subject: Consolidation
In-Reply-To: <hiko1b+hitd@...>
Message-ID: <hilcm7+i2vm@...>

--- In HPFGU-Feedback at yahoogroups.com, "kenadams705 at ..." <kenadams705 at ...> wrote:

KEN:
> Just to add my vote. I agree with most mailers that argue for combining
> Main and Movies. Movies is in any case unlikely to survive much beyond DHII, so a decision is inevitable in the foreseeable future.
> I would argue for the retention of chatter because it allows many interesting, if not strictly related topics, to be aired.

Geoff:
My only observation to that would be that it is two and a half years 
since DH came out and Main is still surviving and is apparently 
disgustingly fit and well...








From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Thu Jan 14 12:01:06 2010
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com (KEN ADAMS)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:01:06 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [HPFGU-Feedback] Re: Consolidation
In-Reply-To: <hilcm7+i2vm@...>
References: <hilcm7+i2vm@...>
Message-ID: <275964.40959.qm@...>

My response being that there is so much more worth discussing in books than in the very modified films which seem to me to be open and shut.
My views incidentally on films align themselves so closely with Carols that I havn't said so before because it would have constituted an I agree mailing.
KEN




________________________________
From: Geoff <gbannister10 at ...>
To: HPFGU-Feedback at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 13 January, 2010 21:07:19
Subject: [HPFGU-Feedback] Re: Consolidation

? 
--- In HPFGU-Feedback@ yahoogroups. com, "kenadams705@ ..." <kenadams705@ ...> wrote:



Geoff:
My only observation to that would be that it is two and a half years 
since DH came out and Main is still surviving and is apparently 
disgustingly fit and well...




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From bboyminn at bboyminn.yahoo.invalid  Thu Jan 14 17:55:49 2010
From: bboyminn at bboyminn.yahoo.invalid (bboyminn)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 17:55:49 -0000
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One - Fan Fiction
In-Reply-To: <801502.49303.qm@...>
Message-ID: <hinlr5+2cic@...>



--- Susan Albrecht <susiequsie23 at ...> wrote:
>
> Brian:
> > > ...
> > > 
> > > At the moment, if I am correct Off Topic includes HP 
> > > fanfics which doesn't seem very Off Topic to me.
> > > Perhaps allow fanfics into main or have a separate group
> > > for fanfics?
> 
> Catlady:
> > I vote for allowing Fanfic discussion into Main List.
> > 
> 
> SSSusan:
> Personally, I would detest having fanfic discussion at Main.
> 
> Siriusly Snapey Susan
>


Just my opinion.

I don't think any HPFGU groups should allow the PUBLICATION of
fan fiction. I think at best, any fan fictions being discussed
should be hosted somewhere else and only linked to. 

I think, even though JKR tolerates it, there are some issues
around copyright and trademark, and while JKR may be tolerant
Warner is not. 

Warner threatened to sue a woman because she was hosting a
Harry Potter party in her home. Many fan groups have been
forbidden to advertise anything having to do with Harry
Potter. They are still allowed to have the fan gatherings
and conventions, but they can't directly reference 'Harry
Potter' or advertise any Harry Potter trademarked or 
copyrighted names...such as Slytherin. 

I assume once the convention is underway, in the internal 
seminars and discussion, they can say what they like. 

I think for any of our groups to allow the actual publication
of fan fiction would lead to trouble down the road. One simple
unsubstantiated complaint from Warner would have the offending
group deleted without warning, and the complete historical
archive of discussions would be lost.

I think brief quotes within the bounds of 'fair use' should be
allowed to help clarify a point of discussion. Just as we
would allow a brief quote from the original books. 

But I think, in the long run, it would be a mistake of our
groups to allow the publication of fan fiction. 

Just thought I would through that out there. 

Steve/bluewizard




From gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid  Thu Jan 14 23:36:14 2010
From: gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid (Geoff)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:36:14 -0000
Subject: Consolidation
In-Reply-To: <275964.40959.qm@...>
Message-ID: <hio9pe+9d1n@...>



--- In HPFGU-Feedback at yahoogroups.com, KEN ADAMS <kenadams705 at ...> wrote:

KEN:
> My views incidentally on films align themselves so closely with Carols that I havn't said so before because it would have constituted an I agree mailing.

Geoff:
I think an "I agree" post is permissible on Feedback since we 
are trying to sound out the feeling of the group.




From brian at brigrove.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jan 16 00:03:35 2010
From: brian at brigrove.yahoo.invalid (Brian)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 21:03:35 -0300
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One - Fan Fiction
Message-ID: <4B510257.1000902@...>

Replying to...

"I don't think any HPFGU groups should allow the PUBLICATION of
fan fiction. I think at best, any fan fictions being discussed
should be hosted somewhere else and only linked to.
I think, even though JKR tolerates it, there are some issues
around copyright and trademark, and while JKR may be tolerant
Warner is not. "


Whether Warner is tolerant of not is irrelevant, they do NOT own the 
rights to the written works, merely a license to adapt them.
While they may use their muscle to bully people for things like Harry 
Potter parties, something which is clearly an adaption of the BOOKS and 
in a written form, falls well outside of their legal rights, which is 
why there are hundreds of thousands of Harry Potter fanfics.
Even if they wanted to try and stop them, they could hardly do so when 
JKR has given fanfics her blessing repeatedly and has received many 
compliments not only on getting a whole generation into reading, but 
encouraging hundreds of thousands of new writers as well.

Brian



From gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jan 16 21:42:11 2010
From: gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid (Geoff)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 21:42:11 -0000
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One - Fan Fiction
In-Reply-To: <hinlr5+2cic@...>
Message-ID: <hitbrj+eg9s@...>

--- In HPFGU-Feedback at yahoogroups.com, "bboyminn" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:

Steve/bluewizard:
 
> I don't think any HPFGU groups should allow the PUBLICATION of
> fan fiction. I think at best, any fan fictions being discussed
> should be hosted somewhere else and only linked to. 
> 
> I think, even though JKR tolerates it, there are some issues
> around copyright and trademark, and while JKR may be tolerant
> Warner is not. 

Geoff:
I've rather got the impression that we have not been advocating 
the publication of fanfic, rather discussion about the genre which 
I think falls safely into the orbit of critical evaluation.




From dumbledore11214 at dumbledore11214.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jan 16 23:00:55 2010
From: dumbledore11214 at dumbledore11214.yahoo.invalid (dumbledore11214)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 23:00:55 -0000
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One - Fan Fiction
In-Reply-To: <hitbrj+eg9s@...>
Message-ID: <hitgf7+gg0n@...>



> Steve/bluewizard:
>  
> > I don't think any HPFGU groups should allow the PUBLICATION of
> > fan fiction. I think at best, any fan fictions being discussed
> > should be hosted somewhere else and only linked to. 
> > 
> > I think, even though JKR tolerates it, there are some issues
> > around copyright and trademark, and while JKR may be tolerant
> > Warner is not. 
> 
> Geoff:
> I've rather got the impression that we have not been advocating 
> the publication of fanfic, rather discussion about the genre which 
> I think falls safely into the orbit of critical evaluation.
>


Alla:

Hm, personally whether it is publication or discussion of fanfic, I am not feeling that main list, whatever it will end up being is a good place for it. I dunno, I love fanfic, but to me discussing books that prompted fanfic is better done separately.

JMO of course.




From bboyminn at bboyminn.yahoo.invalid  Mon Jan 18 00:21:20 2010
From: bboyminn at bboyminn.yahoo.invalid (bboyminn)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 00:21:20 -0000
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One - Fan Fiction
In-Reply-To: <hitbrj+eg9s@...>
Message-ID: <hj09i0+v5eq@...>

--- "Geoff" <gbannister10 at ...> wrote:
>
> ---  "bboyminn" <bboyminn@> wrote:
> 
> Steve/bluewizard:
>  
> > I don't think any HPFGU groups should allow the PUBLICATION of
> > fan fiction. I think at best, any fan fictions being discussed
> > should be hosted somewhere else and only linked to. 
> > 
> > I think, even though JKR tolerates it, there are some issues
> > around copyright and trademark, and while JKR may be tolerant
> > Warner is not. 
> 
> Geoff:
> I've rather got the impression that we have not been advocating 
> the publication of fanfic, rather discussion about the genre which 
> I think falls safely into the orbit of critical evaluation.
>

bboyminn:

Sorry, I wasn't intending to suggest publication was specifically
allowed. I was simply making the side point that when it came to 
fan fiction, there are some perils. 

Discussing fiction which has been linked to, I can't see how 
that would get the group into trouble. But, in saying we are 
allowing 'fan fiction', which is how it was stated several 
times, I wanted make sure we were all on the same page. 

As to Warner, they have bought the rights to a lot of aspects
of Harry Potter. It is, so far, not the publishing company 
that is going after people. It was Warner that stopped fan
groups from using any direct Harry Potter terminology in the
names of their fan gatherings and conventions. It was Warner
who tired to sue a house wife, because she sent out open
invitations to a 'Harry Potter' Halloween Party. They have
only limited objection to the party, but they strongly object
to her using the name 'Harry Potter'. Even though this was
a small gathering in her house. 

Also, Yahoo doesn't engage in diplomacy when they get a 
complaint. They deal with countless thousands of complaints,
and they deal with them in a cut-and-run fashion. If a 
complaint is lodged, the offending group is delete with little
or no debate or discussion. I've had several user names deleted
with no explanation, and no room for appeal or re-enstatement, 
which is why I always have a back up name registered. And if 
the complaint comes from a big company like Warner, one with 
lots of lawyers, I don't see our chances as being good. 

I also don't think JKR has given approval to fan fiction,
she simply hasn't objected. She tolerates it. But she hasn't
flat out said it is OK. I think she will continue to tolerate
it, for as long as no one tries to make any money, and for as
long as it doesn't effect her. 

She does have an advantage in that she isn't really writing
any more Harry Potter stories. There was another author, 
though I can't remember who, who was tolerant of fan fiction
until she wrote another books and a fan sued her for stealing
the plot from the fan. That ended her tolerance of fan fiction. 

So, I'm simply saying that long before it becomes an issue,
let's start out saying clearly, no fan fiction publication.

Steve/bboyminn





From willsonkmom at potioncat.yahoo.invalid  Fri Jan 22 14:03:09 2010
From: willsonkmom at potioncat.yahoo.invalid (potioncat)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 14:03:09 -0000
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One
In-Reply-To: <801502.49303.qm@...>
Message-ID: <hjcb6t+u82f@...>


> 
> Catlady:
> > I vote for allowing Fanfic discussion into Main List.
> > 
> 
> SSSusan:
> Personally, I would detest having fanfic discussion at Main.
> 
> Siriusly Snapey Susan
>

Potioncat:
I only dart into OT from time to time, so maybe I've just missed it. But I've  never seen much discussion of fanfic at all. It might be interesting to discuss it; I'd always like to hear of recommendations and we have some excellent writers from our own little HP4GU family. I'm just not sure I'd want that discussion to be at main. I'm concerned that main will become a hodgepodge if all things HP are allowed.

If we combined main and movie and would ONLY canon and movie be at main and everything else go to OT? Would news about a HP actor go to main/movie or to OT? Where would discussion about the HP park go?

I'd like to keep things the way they are, but I think we may be past that option. I'm just trying to imagine what the list will become.




From susiequsie23 at cubfanbudwoman.yahoo.invalid  Fri Jan 22 19:34:29 2010
From: susiequsie23 at cubfanbudwoman.yahoo.invalid (Susan Albrecht)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 11:34:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-Feedback] Re: Consolidating All the Groups into One
In-Reply-To: <hjcb6t+u82f@...>
References: <hjcb6t+u82f@...>
Message-ID: <720754.9915.qm@...>

Catlady:
>?> I vote for allowing Fanfic discussion into Main List.
?
SSSusan:
> Personally, I would detest having fanfic discussion at Main.

Potioncat:
> I only dart into OT from time to time, so maybe I've just missed it. But I've? never seen much discussion of fanfic at all. It might be interesting to discuss 
> it; I'd always like to hear of recommendations and we have some excellent writers from our own little HP4GU family. I'm just not sure I'd want that 
> discussion to be at main. I'm concerned that main will become a hodgepodge if all things HP are allowed.


SSSusan:
I realize now I probably should've done a little more by way of explaining what I meant.

I don't have a problem at all with someone saying something along the lines of, "Oh, I read this great fanfic one time that really opened up a new way of looking at _____ for me" and then naming it.? No problem with that kind of thing at all.

What I don't like -- and what I'd worry about happening if we said we allowed "fanfic discussion" at Main -- is when people want to talk about their OWN fanfic.? We've all run into people who reference their own fanfic...?like, ALL the time... and provide?detailed synopses or?replays of?scenes.? This is what I'd never want to see on Main.? 

In my?experience with reading ff, there is precious little out there that's of great quality and a whole lot that's drivel, or at least extremely poorly done.? The authors themselves, of course, don't always recognize when they're in the latter category. I would never want to come to Main, only to have to face seeing bits and pieces of people's actual fics, you know?? That's all I'm saying.? If I had to see, "Well, one time I wrote this fic, and it was all about Hermione and Snape, and it went like this..." well, then, blurgh, I'd just want to run away screaming.? 

There are folks who LOVE fanfic -- reading and writing and analyzing -- but I've always loved the sort of "sacredness" of Main, its being reserved for discussion of the actual JKR-produced canon.


Potioncat:
> If we combined main and movie and would ONLY canon and movie be at main and everything else go to OT? Would news about a HP actor go to 
> main/movie or to OT? Where would discussion about the HP park go?
>
> I'd like to keep things the way they are, but I think we may be past that option. I'm just trying to imagine what the list will become.

SSSusan:
I guess if we actually *closed* Movie, then all that talk would probably end up at Main.? Even though I'm very interested in the movies, I'm not sure I would enjoy that too much.? I'd almost rather just see the lifting of the "No discussion of the movies at Main!" ban lifted, so that people would no longer have to *avoid* bringing in questions or examples from the movies as they talk about the books.? But if *all* someone wanted to do was talk about the movies -- particularly stuff about the actors that doesn't really even relate to the storyline or characters -- my personal preference would be that that happen elsewhere.? Which I guess would mean OTC if Movie were closed.

I'd be curious what others think about this.? 

Siriusly Snapey Susan


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid  Fri Jan 22 23:51:00 2010
From: gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid (Geoff)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 23:51:00 -0000
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One
In-Reply-To: <720754.9915.qm@...>
Message-ID: <hjddl4+11k8@...>

--- In HPFGU-Feedback at yahoogroups.com, Susan Albrecht <susiequsie23 at ...> wrote:

SSSusan:
> I guess if we actually *closed* Movie, then all that talk would probably end up at Main.? Even though I'm very interested in the movies, I'm not sure I would enjoy that too much.? I'd almost rather just see the lifting of the "No discussion of the movies at Main!" ban lifted, so that people would no longer have to *avoid* bringing in questions or examples from the movies as they talk about the books.? But if *all* someone wanted to do was talk about the movies -- particularly stuff about the actors that doesn't really even relate to the storyline or characters -- my personal preference would be that that happen elsewhere.? Which I guess would mean OTC if Movie were closed.
> 
> I'd be curious what others think about this.? 

Geoff:
If we were to merge Main and Movie, perhaps a similar situation could 
be introduced as on Main at the moment where we say that posts should 
be linked to canon; in other words material being posted about the films 
should be just that - about the films. Hence the doings of the actors etc. 
and side tracks should go to OTC as it sometimes does with items from 
Main.

OTC would cover matters from the books and films which did not directly 
impact on the stories. Further to that, I don't recall much comment about 
fanfic appearing on the groups but, as I think someone else has said, unless 
fanfic references are being compared or linked with canon writing in some 
way, they should go to OTC.




From dumbledore11214 at dumbledore11214.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jan 23 22:16:55 2010
From: dumbledore11214 at dumbledore11214.yahoo.invalid (dumbledore11214)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 22:16:55 -0000
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One
In-Reply-To: <hjcb6t+u82f@...>
Message-ID: <hjfsgn+2nbu@...>

Potioncat:
<SNIP>

> I'd like to keep things the way they are, but I think we may be past that option. I'm just trying to imagine what the list will become.
>


Alla:

May I ask what do you know that I don't? :) I mean it in the nicest possible way. I do not think we are past any options, I think we are just discussing all of them and desire to keep the things as they are is IMO just as valid option as any.

Personally I can see that quite a few of list members commented that they would like movies and main merged together, so I feel an obligation to seriously consider this option, but no, personally I am not hundred percent convinced that closing the movie would be the  best way to go.

I think I really like what Susan suggested - lift the ban on discussing the movies on main, and that maybe at least will insure that if we discuss it on main we will discuss it in connection with canon but maybe keep movie separate for all the things purely movies - technical aspects and all of that.

JMO,

Alla




From gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jan 24 18:58:34 2010
From: gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid (Geoff)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 18:58:34 -0000
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One
In-Reply-To: <hjfsgn+2nbu@...>
Message-ID: <hji58q+6ojt@...>

--- In HPFGU-Feedback at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" <dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:

Alla:
 
> I think I really like what Susan suggested - lift the ban on discussing the movies on main, and that maybe at least will insure that if we discuss it on main we will discuss it in connection with canon but maybe keep movie separate for all the things purely movies - technical aspects and all of that.

Geoff:
This effectively mirrors what I said in the immediately preceding post to yours.
Movie seems to be almost moribund at the moment; there have been only seven 
posts this year, between the 4th-7th January. Presumably the discussion on HBP 
has wound down. 

I imagine there will be a return to life which will spark  more messages when the 
final two films appear. So, as both Alla and I seem to be suggesting, if "non-canon"
film discussion (if you see what I mean) is shunted off to OTC, that would seem to 
be a workable outcome.




From justcarol67 at justcarol67.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jan 24 19:06:32 2010
From: justcarol67 at justcarol67.yahoo.invalid (justcarol67)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 19:06:32 -0000
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One
In-Reply-To: <801502.49303.qm@...>
Message-ID: <hji5no+9fq7@...>

> SSSusan:
> Personally, I would detest having fanfic discussion at Main.
> 
> Siriusly Snapey Susan
>

Carol responds:

A resounding "I agree!" Next, we'll start allowing "I agree" and "Me, too" posts that add nothing, or we'll relax the rules about not top posting and have a disorganized jumble. If it works, don't fix it! The set-up that we have now is logical and well-organized. If people want to talk fanfic, they can do it on OT Chatter. Let's leave Main for people who like to talk about the books and support their posts with canon and leave the other groups (Movies, OT, Admin, and whatever else for their specific topics.

I don't want to have to skip a bunch of OT or fanfic posts on Main.

Please, please, please leave things as they are.

Carol, noting that even when our groups are slow, they're more active than many other Yahoo groups




From justcarol67 at justcarol67.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jan 24 19:23:47 2010
From: justcarol67 at justcarol67.yahoo.invalid (justcarol67)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 19:23:47 -0000
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One
In-Reply-To: <hjddl4+11k8@...>
Message-ID: <hji6o3+pbi9@...>

> SSSusan:
> > I guess if we actually *closed* Movie, then all that talk would probably end up at Main.? Even though I'm very interested in the movies, I'm not sure I would enjoy that too much.? I'd almost rather just see the lifting of the "No discussion of the movies at Main!" ban lifted, so that people would no longer have to *avoid* bringing in questions or examples from the movies as they talk about the books.? But if *all* someone wanted to do was talk about the movies -- particularly stuff about the actors that doesn't really even relate to the storyline or characters -- my personal preference would be that that happen elsewhere.? Which I guess would mean OTC if Movie were closed.
> > 
> > I'd be curious what others think about this.? 
> 
> Geoff:
> If we were to merge Main and Movie, perhaps a similar situation could be introduced as on Main at the moment where we say that posts should be linked to canon; in other words material being posted about the films should be just that - about the films. Hence the doings of the actors etc. and side tracks should go to OTC as it sometimes does with items from Main. <snip>
>
Carol responds:

Wasn't the whole point of having a separate Movie group in the first place to avoid "film contamination"? I don't want to have to distinguish between Rickman!Snape and Book!Snape, for example, and I don't want to encounter posts that talk about Harry "killing" Quirrell with his bare hands, for example, and have to point out in my response that that happened only in the movie version.

*If* we close the Film list, and I see no necessity for doing so, please, please, please don't lift the ban against discussing the films on the Main list. And, above all, don't make Main an anything goes list combining the books, the films, and, erm, the fuse that blew in my house yesterday leaving me without heat.

Honestly, we'll just make a mess of things if we mix up the list. We might as well have Hagrid teaching Potions and Trelawney as headmistress.

Carol, who thinks that the dwindling number of posts on all lists is to be expected and is not sufficient cause for undoing the advantages of separate groups for separate topics




From gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jan 24 21:02:23 2010
From: gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid (Geoff)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 21:02:23 -0000
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One
In-Reply-To: <hji6o3+pbi9@...>
Message-ID: <hjicgv+qmrq@...>

--- In HPFGU-Feedback at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

Carol:
 
> Wasn't the whole point of having a separate Movie group in the first place to avoid "film contamination"? I don't want to have to distinguish between Rickman!Snape and Book!Snape, for example, and I don't want to encounter posts that talk about Harry "killing" Quirrell with his bare hands, for example, and have to point out in my response that that happened only in the movie version.

Geoff:
I came to the HP books via the films andso  am familiar with both. There 
have been times in the past when I have tried to bring forward comparisons 
for the sake of pointing up canon and having to resort to the hackneyed 
phrasing"If I might be allowed to refer to 'the medium which dare not 
speak its name'.

I agree that some of the film "modifications" are questionable. For example, 
what has considerably irritated me in HBP is the elevation of Ginny to a kind of 
Wonderwoman figure leaping to Harry's aid which on occasions makes the 
latter guy look a bit of a wuss as well as creating storyline distortions out of
which the last two films will have to wriggle. Plus the pointless extra scenes 
such as the well-discussed attack on The Burrow and the episode at the 
railway station when Dumbledore appears to take Harry to Slughorn's.

However, I would think that in a combined group, context would indicate to 
the well-rounded HP fan which medium was being referred to. As I have said 
more than once, anything which does not refer to canon of the actual films 
should be passed to OTC.

Changing tack slightly, it has been suggested that there might be a poll of
members about this. If there was such an event, we wold then have to decide
whether sufficient of the membership had voted to give a clear view and 
whether any such poll, if it were to take place, would be mandatory or 
merely advisory. So, we have a number of different and conflicting paths 
to consider.

"Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes",
(Frodo, "Three is Company" LOTR:FOTR)
:-(




From willsonkmom at potioncat.yahoo.invalid  Mon Jan 25 02:51:55 2010
From: willsonkmom at potioncat.yahoo.invalid (potioncat)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 02:51:55 -0000
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One
In-Reply-To: <hjicgv+qmrq@...>
Message-ID: <hjj10b+rvk9@...>


>Geoff: 
> Changing tack slightly, it has been suggested that there might be a poll of
> members about this. If there was such an event, we wold then have to decide
> whether sufficient of the membership had voted to give a clear view and 
> whether any such poll, if it were to take place, would be mandatory or 
> merely advisory. So, we have a number of different and conflicting paths 
> to consider.

Potioncat:
Don't rock the boat.
Don't move my cheese.
I like things just the way they are.


But I am open minded. My main question is--What are the advantages to combining lists? 

I thought we could always reference TMTMNBN as long as we were making a canon related point. Remember when we wondered if something in the movie was a clue about something to come in a later book?

I was active at movie for a short time before HBP came out. At that time was a bit of tension between movies-only fans and canon-based fans. I'm not sure how that tension would work itself out at main where we have a strong canon-supported discussion format.

Just thinking out loud.

Potioncat

 





From lunalovegood at lunalovegoodrules.yahoo.invalid  Mon Jan 25 03:03:42 2010
From: lunalovegood at lunalovegoodrules.yahoo.invalid (lunalovegoodrules)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 03:03:42 -0000
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One
In-Reply-To: <hi7o7f+aou7@...>
Message-ID: <hjj1me+n0l4@...>

Steve announced:

> I can see blending the HP-Movie (HPFGU-Moive) and the HP-Books 
> (HPforGrownUps)into one group, especially now that the discussion
> count is pretty low. 

Well, if this were to happen, and finding a post about something interesting to me were increased, I might start actually checking the main list again.

For example, I've always been interested in cross contamination between HP books and movies as a phenomenon, subtle, and not so subtle, differences in the ethical questions presented in each, and so forth.

Dan




From siskiou at siskiou97405.yahoo.invalid  Mon Jan 25 04:06:15 2010
From: siskiou at siskiou97405.yahoo.invalid (Susanne)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 20:06:15 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-Feedback] Re: Consolidating All the Groups into One
In-Reply-To: <hjj10b+rvk9@...>
References: <hjicgv+qmrq@...> <hjj10b+rvk9@...>
Message-ID: <378553000.20100124200615@...>



Hi,

Sunday, January 24, 2010, 6:51:55 PM, willsonkmom at ... wrote:

> My main question is--What are the advantages to combining lists?

What I wondered is: what happens to the years of messages archived for each list?
Would they be deleted and forever gone, or can they be moved to the main list (or whichever one would be appropriate), if lists do get combined.

-- 
 
Best regards,
 Susanne                           mailto:siskiou at ...




From brian at brigrove.yahoo.invalid  Mon Jan 25 14:09:13 2010
From: brian at brigrove.yahoo.invalid (Brian)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:09:13 -0300
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One
Message-ID: <4B5DA609.9080106@...>

Closing a group will mean losing all the archived messages for that 
group.  There is no way to combine them.
That is probably a good enough reason NOT to close the group on its own.

Apart from that, as I've said previously, I wouldn't mind movies going 
to main, but WHY?

We are halfway between two movies, it is to be expected that things will 
be slower.
This seems to be searching for an answer to something that isn't a problem.
It's not like we get inundated with non existent messages about the movies.

After due reconsideration, my vote is - it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Brian



From bboyminn at bboyminn.yahoo.invalid  Tue Jan 26 08:14:00 2010
From: bboyminn at bboyminn.yahoo.invalid (bboyminn)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:14:00 -0000
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One
In-Reply-To: <4B5DA609.9080106@...>
Message-ID: <hjm888+60el@...>



---  Brian <brian at ...> wrote:
>
> Closing a group will mean losing all the archived messages 
> for that group.  There is no way to combine them.
>
> That is probably a good enough reason NOT to close the group
> on its own.
> 
> ...
> 
> After due reconsideration, my vote is - it ain't broke, don't fix it.
> 
> Brian
>

bboyminn:

I've considered this too, but I don't think the movie group
would have to be deleted, it could just be closed to new postings
and have a note on the front page directing new discussion to 
the main group.

In a sense, the movie group would become a 'Read Only' with
new discussion directed to the main group. That would allow 
us access to old discussions which are sometimes needed for
reference. 

Can the moderators confirm that this is true? 

Steve/bboyminn





From gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid  Tue Jan 26 23:46:17 2010
From: gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid (Geoff)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 23:46:17 -0000
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One
In-Reply-To: <hjm888+60el@...>
Message-ID: <hjnus9+2b95@...>

--- In HPFGU-Feedback at yahoogroups.com, "bboyminn" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:

bboyminn:
> 
> I've considered this too, but I don't think the movie group
> would have to be deleted, it could just be closed to new postings
> and have a note on the front page directing new discussion to 
> the main group.
> 
> In a sense, the movie group would become a 'Read Only' with
> new discussion directed to the main group. That would allow 
> us access to old discussions which are sometimes needed for
> reference. 
> 
> Can the moderators confirm that this is true? 

Geoff:
In the case of the "HPforGrownups-Archives" which I quoted a day 
or so ago, it is indeed closed to extra postings except that there 
seemed to be a routine message at about three or four month 
intervals sent to indicate that the group was still in existence 
although this seems to have stopped about 2003.

Can anyone add to this?





From zanelupin at zanelupin.yahoo.invalid  Wed Jan 27 02:31:43 2010
From: zanelupin at zanelupin.yahoo.invalid (zanelupin)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 02:31:43 -0000
Subject: Consolidating All the Groups into One
In-Reply-To: <hjnus9+2b95@...>
Message-ID: <hjo8if+b1cf@...>



bboyminn:

> > I've considered this too, but I don't think the movie group
> > would have to be deleted, it could just be closed to new postings
> > and have a note on the front page directing new discussion to 
> > the main group.
> > 
> > In a sense, the movie group would become a 'Read Only' with
> > new discussion directed to the main group. That would allow 
> > us access to old discussions which are sometimes needed for
> > reference. 
> > 
> > Can the moderators confirm that this is true? 
 
Geoff:

> In the case of the "HPforGrownups-Archives" which I quoted a day 
> or so ago, it is indeed closed to extra postings except that there 
> seemed to be a routine message at about three or four month 
> intervals sent to indicate that the group was still in existence 
> although this seems to have stopped about 2003.
> 
> Can anyone add to this?

KathyK:

Yes, the group settings for who can post messages and who has access to the group archives are separate.  So, we could turn off posting but still allow members access to the archive.  It's also what we used to to do on the Main list in the "shutdown" time at the release of a new book.  If Main and Movie were combined, we could still keep Movie open to new posts, if we choose.  Other than forcing the Movie and Main people to play together, there's really no reason to turn off posting, is there?

As far as the activity posts are concerned, if you're interested, I believe Yahoo! used to delete inactive groups after X number of days, so the moderators set up those automatic messages to keep the group from going inactive.  I don't believe that's a problem anymore, though.




From kelley_thompson at kelleyscorpio.yahoo.invalid  Thu Nov 11 19:29:35 2010
From: kelley_thompson at kelleyscorpio.yahoo.invalid (kelleyscorpio)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 19:29:35 -0000
Subject: New Yahoo Groups Experience
Message-ID: <ibhg6v+ud0a@...>

As lots of you probably know, Yahoo is trying to change the 
design of groups.  They began rolling it out a few months 
ago, but lots of people really disliked it and were having
considerable problems with it.  They halted the roll out 
and started trying to fix the things people didn't like.

They set up a group so people can try out the new design for
themselves and give Yahoo feedback on it, and it's occurred 
to me that perhaps some folks here might be interested in 
trying it out:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/y_groups_team/

--Kelley