CASTING - Lupin, Sirius / Rickman

[Petra Pan]

Petra Pan (yours truly):
> Does the sadder-but-now-wiser John Hannah fit
> anybody else's mental image of Lupin?  He 
> played Matthew (the bereaved one at the 
> funeral service) in Four Weddings and a
> Funeral.

Dom: 
> I was thinking also James Purefoy, but that's
> possibly more a Sirius thing.
> I was watching Resident Evil today, he is
> (the bad guy) Spence, and also
> played the jousting king in A Knight's Tale.

Don't remember him in Resident Evil but yes,
Purefoy's performance as Sir Thomas
Colville/Edward, the Black Prince of Wales, in A
Knight's Tale did remind me of Sirius.

http://us.imdb.com/Name?Purefoy,+James

Speaking of Sirius, Angus MacFadyen's performance
as Robert the Bruce in Braveheart also reminded
me of aspects of Sirius.

http://us.imdb.com/Name?MacFadyen,%20Angus

Hmm...has anyone mentioned these two before?

Wait - what's that I hear?  I should consider
just one person per role?  But why?

After all, until an actor actually tackles the
material in auditions and screen tests, no one
can be truly certain of the viability of that
particular combination of actor and role.  So why
nix ANY mix?  We have seen the character types
that are reminiscent of Sirius and of Lupin many
times in the past and undoubtedly will many times
henceforth.  Surely there are more than just one
actor who can meet the requirements of each of
these roles and therefore worthy of
consideration.

Having said that...

I must admit to strong doubts about that rumor in
regards to Richard O'Brien.  Even I find it
difficult imagining Mr. Riff Raff as Sirius - I
mean really, won't he be too busy playing Filch
already?

<beg>

http://us.imdb.com/Name?O%27Brien,%20Richard%20(I)

John Hannah as Lupin would not be NEARLY as much
of a stretch as O'Brien as Sirius, for an
example.  Not only is the task of molding Hannah
into Lupin a do-able one (meaning the role is
within Hannah's range in a way the role of Sirius
is not in O'Brien's), I also have enough regard
for his abilities as an actor to think Hannah
capable of carrying out such a task.

I have that same regard for MANY other British
actors - some have even been mentioned on this
list.  I can't pick just one out of the throng
without seeing them work with the materials.  And
that is just never going to happen...pity...

Back to Dom:
> I think John Hannah is great, I
> especially liked him in the Mummy (+Mummy
> Returns) but I'm still not overly
> sure on whether i think he'd fit the role,
> although his range is rather good.

It was his performance in Four Weddings and a
Funeral that put him in my mind for Lupin.

GulPlum AKA Richard replied to my original query:
> In brief, not in the slightest.
> 
> Sorry for the short post, but the suggestion
> *really* made me shudder.

More in the spirit of exploring this issue than
challenging a personal opinion, I ask "Why the
shudder?"  Just his age (or lack of thereof)
isn't a good enough reason.

GulPlum:
> still holding out for a 
> Jeremy Irons type (if not the man himself).

I have a high enough opinion of Irons to hope
that if he had wanted a shot at the role, that he
got his shot.  He would do well.

OT aside: Just saw Irons in The Man in the Iron
Mask and it occurred to me that the Marauders and
the Musketeers have a lot in common...though I
can't imagine this hasn't already been discussed
on the main list.

Rrishi:
> As for Jeremy Irons...<snip>...the 
> actor's palpable intensity on-screen makes him
> an odd choice, IMO, 
> for an apparently mild and unprepossessing
> Professor Lupin. Even if he were 
> sprinkled with dust and dressed shabbily.

Irons has successfully done non-intense roles in
his career...such roles do not make as visceral 
of impressions as do the intense ones, though.

Princess Peanut:
> I'm still holding out 
> for Colin Firth as Lupin - he's exactly as I'd
> imagined Remus.  But, if Firth is busy,
> Hannah's my second choice.

I'd have no problems with Firth as the
quintessential lone wolf.  Though, it'd be harder
to believe that no woman on the British Isle
would have him, werewolf or not.  :)

Jessica's comments on Irons:
> He's also far, far too old.  <snip>  
> He's certainly not believable as
> someone who is PREMATURELY graying.

prompted this response (in part) from GulPlum,
asserting that since Snape is:
> meant to be Lupin's (younger-looking, by
> your admission) contemporary, the movie
> casting has already thrown the importance
> of that single mention of "young" with
> regard to Lupin out of the window.
>
> The logic of the story DEMANDS that he actor
> should be someone who is 
> believably the same age as Alan Rickman,
> but appears older (the same goes for Sirius).
> 
> As a result, surely it would make sense to
> cast someone *older* than 
> Rickman, NOT younger? Or at the VERY least,
> someone of approximately the same age?
> 
> The logic of casting someone *considerably*
> younger than him (around 
> 15 years in the case of Firth or Hannah,
> or 30 in the case of Farrell!) quite
> simply makes no sense whatsoever.

Creating the impression that Lupin is a man whose
physical body is aged beyond his years will be no
small task, no matter WHO they cast.  The match
should be between the on-screen characters NOT
between the real life actors.  Rickman's Snape is
not meant to be Rickman's peer in RL now is he?

So, would casting older with youthful make-up
better bring about the appearance of a man who
should be in his prime but instead is physically
"over the hill" or would casting younger with
aging make-up be better?  I don't know.  The
actual age of the actor contributes only in part
to how successful he might be in conveying the
sense of being both old AND young at the same
time.

GulPlum:
> when we first meet him, Lupin is described
> as "quite young", but this description is
> simply there to underline the fact that his
> condition has had an adverse effect on his
> appearance

Perhaps here's where we most differ.  Lupin's
tragedy in this lifetime is his becoming a
werewolf.  I've always consider this a part of
the theme of choice.  Lupin is one of the most
sympathetic characters in the series because
though no choice of his own (that we know about),
his life must be conducted around becoming a
full-fledged monster once every month.

More than just a detriment to his appearance,
looking older than his years says more about
Lupin's tragedy than the stoic man would ever
consider uttering in dialogue.  It's an extremely
subtle detail but one that resonates.  Because
this detail is much easier to type than show,
casting Lupin is undoubtedly one helluva headache
and why I find it fascinating.

GulPlum:
> The insistence of some fans to give
> these parts to 30-something 
> actors actually makes me angry. I
> can understand kids insisting on 
> it, but surely adults can be just a
> LITTLE more objective? I really, 
> sincerely, would suggest that people
> take this matter on board when 
> imagining who might be cast. Start
> with Rickman and work around him, 
> NOT the (scant) age indications in the books.

Couple of things to consider here:

To use the actual age of an actor as the
make-or-break factor for his suitability for a
role is to stand on shaky grounds.  We are
talking about a medium that bases its
effectiveness on illusions after all...illusions
that, when done right, reflect the reality with
more truth than a mirror.  What is the function
of age in this discussion but how the physical
appearance of Lupin will strike the audience?

Perhaps I speak only for myself, but I am under
the impression that actors are being nominated
for consideration (so to speak) to play certain
characters on this list for showing promise...for
conveying aspects of such characters' souls and
essences in previous work.

I find such qualities just as important in the
portrayals of our beloved fictional personalities
as the physical and quantifiable qualities (such
as age, height, etc.) that are so often modified
by the arts applicable in the making of films.

Or, as Rrishi puts it:
> the age of the actors chosen
> to play Lupin or Sirius (given 
> that the casting people stay away
> from extremes of youth or age) 
> does not seem as important as their
> apparent fittingness for the parts.

Even disregarding the above point, the
age-appropriate casting of Lupin and Sirius to
match the rest of those who attended Hogwarts at
the same time cannot depend wholly on Rickman and
his on-screen visage as Snape.

As Jessica puts it:
> As far as casting according to Rickman's age
> range, I'd ask you to consider the actors who
> play in James and Lily Potter in the movie.
> Do they necessarily look like contemporaries
> of Rickman's Snape? Not really.

Lily and James, even aged up 10+ years to make up
for the fact that the images of them are from
over a decade ago, still seems much younger than
Rickman's Snape to me.  GulPlum's approach that
"start with Rickman and work around him" does not
address the need to match up with Lily and James,
as far as those of my ilk are concerned.

But if GulPlum can fashion a convincing argument
advocating a switch of opinion to that which he
holds - without calling into question the
maturity of those who hold the differing
viewpoint - I am listening.

Can't promise a prompt reply, but I would be
happy to consider the stance arguing that Lupin,
Sirius, and Peter should look closer to the age
of Rickman as Snape than to the age of Lily &
James as they appeared in the movies plus 10+
years.

Jessica also wrote, in reply to GulPlum:
> I get just as irritated with people who refuse
> to acknowledge that fact as you are with people
> who you seem to think are letting their
> immature, starstruck tendencies guide their
> casting opinions.  <snip>  I don't appreciate
> having your issues superimposed on my views.
>  <snip>  Please don't talk down to us like
> we're ignorant and juvenile.

I second that, adding just this: I rarely post
and even more rarely on casting.  Objectively
speaking, only when I am lumped in with those
(from other forums too or just here?) who make
GulPlum angry can my rare casting suggestion be
considered part of the persistent pestilence. 
And FWIW GulPlum, I am not as offended as Jessica
by your recent spurt of...uhm...grumpiness. 
Truth be told, I am rather used to your style by
now. <beg>

Though I must confess to missing your usual
cut-to-the-chase manner of posting;
cut-to-the-quick is just not the same.  Must be
that toxic cloud of oven cleaning fumes...you
know, the one that, even as we tap away on the
keyboards, is hopefully dissipating?

Rrishi on how suitable the adult cast members
are:
> Rickman has always looked a little brittle.

Or, as Emma Thompson puts it: "Sometimes Alan
reminds me of the owl in Beatrix Potter's
'Squirrel Nutkin.'  If you took too many
liberties with him I'm sure he'd have your tail
off in a trice."

No, I don't think I would trade Rickman for an
age-appropriate Snape.

Petra, the Late & Long-winded
a
n  :)

Also from Emma Thompson's published diary +
screenplay of "Sense & Sensibility" -

overheard on set -

Kate Winslet: 
"Oh God, my knickers have gone up my arse."

Alan Rickman: 
"Ah. Feminine mystique strikes again."

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