From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com Wed Jan 1 00:41:05 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 16:41:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: 'Tis the season for awards...
Message-ID: <20030101004105.27439.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com>
'Tis the season for awards and the ads aimed at
those whose votes count. Companies that would
benefit from the wins run these ads as part of
their publicity campaigns.
>From it's ads for HPCoS, below is Warner Bros.'
list of people to be considered for awards (such
as the Academy Awards/Oscars, the Golden Globes,
BAFTA, etc).
What I don't get is just WHOM is Daniel Radcliffe
"supporting." He DOES play the title character
after all and should be considered a lead actor,
not supporting...even if he doesn't have much of
a chance in that category, it's the proper one
for him.
In contrast, Warner Bros. suggests in another
"For Your Consideration" ad (this one for
SCOOBY-DOO), that voters consider
nominating/voting for Matthew Lillard (Shaggy)
for Best Performance by an Actor in a leading
role, comedy or musical.
Petra, wishing her votes count
a
n :)
BEST PICTURE
HARRY POTTER AND THE CHAMBER OF SECRETS
Produced by DAVID HEYMAN
BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR
DANIEL RADCLIFFE
RUPERT GRINT
EMMA WATSON
KENNETH BRANAGH
ROBBIE COLTRANE
RICHARD HARRIS
MAGGIE SMITH
JASON ISAACS
ALAN RICKMAN
RICHARD GRIFFITHS
FIONA SHAW
JULIE WALTERS
MARK WILLIAMS
DAVID BRADLEY
BEST DIRECTOR
CHRIS COLUMBUS
BEST SCREENPLAY
Adapted Screenplay
STEVE KLOVES
BEST ART DIRECTION
Production Designer
STUART CRAIG
Set Decorator
STEPHENIE McMILLAN
BEST CINEMATOGRAPHY
ROGER PRATT, B.S.C.
BEST COSTUME DESIGN
LINDY HEMMING
BEST FILM EDITING
PETER HONESS, A.C.E.
BEST MAKE-UP
Key Make-up Artist
AMANDA KNIGHT
Creature and
Make-up Effects
NICK DUDMAN
Hair Designer
EITHNE FENNELL
BEST ORIGINAL DRAMATIC SCORE
JOHN WILLIAMS
BEST SOUND
Production Mixer
JOHN MIDGLEY
Re-Recording Mixers
RAY MERRIN
GRAHAM DANIEL
RICK KLINE
BEST SOUND EDITING
RANDY THOM
DENNIS LEONARD
BEST VISUAL EFFECTS
JIM MITCHELL
NICK DAVIS
JOHN RICHARDSON
BILL GEORGE
__________________________________________________
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From bboy_mn at yahoo.com Wed Jan 1 03:53:45 2003
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve )
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 03:53:45 -0000
Subject: Slightly OT but Movie Related: Rupert as Charlie & Chocolate Factory
Message-ID:
This is slightly off topic but it does deal with movies and the cast
of the HP movies.
"Rupert Grint?s new Film: Charlie and the Chocolate Factory"
http://www.rupertgrint.net/rumours/gossip_4.htm
OK so Rupert is in a new film. I'm very very happy for him. But there
is more. Not only is Rupert in the movie but so is....
Emma Watson as Veruca Salt
Harry Melling (Dudley) as Augustus Gloop
Tom Felton as Mike Tevee
Elenor Columbus (presumably Chris Columbus's Daughter) as Violet
Beureguard
Michelle Pfeiffer as young Charlie's mum
Jim Carrey playing the top man himself Wonka
Also joining the star packed cast will be Meg Ryan and Daniel
Radcliffe as the famous Umpa Lumpas
Meg Ryan and Michelle Pfeiffer ....? ...really?
Now for the clincher. The release date for this movie is...
April 1, 2003.
Is that even possible?
If it's true, I say GREAT, this time Rupert gets to play the Hero, but
, as much as I like the idea, it sound almost impossible given the
schedule with PoA.
Just thought I would throw that in.
bboy_mn
From siskiou at earthlink.net Wed Jan 1 04:00:24 2003
From: siskiou at earthlink.net (Susanne)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 20:00:24 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Slightly OT but Movie Related: Rupert as Charlie & Chocolate Factory
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <182281606810.20021231200024@earthlink.net>
Hi,
Tuesday, December 31, 2002, 7:53:45 PM, bboy_mn at yahoo.com wrote:
> Now for the clincher. The release date for this movie is...
> April 1, 2003.
> Is that even possible?
Uh, it sounds like an early April Fool's joke to me, with
that ensemble and the release date .
Happy New Year!
--
Best regards,
Susanne mailto:siskiou at earthlink.net
From purple_801999 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 1 04:00:17 2003
From: purple_801999 at yahoo.com (purple_801999 )
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 04:00:17 -0000
Subject: Casting news?
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "c_voth312 "
wrote:
> >
Christi wrote-
> I've personally never gotten all swoony at the mention of Oldman's
> name, but I think he does have a certain charisma about him--one
> which has more to do with attitude rather than physical
appearance.
> And I think attitude is the primary reason why Sirius (and Lupin
too,
> for that matter) has such a following in the first place.
>
> I'd also like to recant my earlier comment about Oldman not being
the
> right type for Peter. I had "Dracula" firmly in my mind at the
time--
> Oldman's versitale enough that he could probably pass for the
> sniveling rat as well.
>
I see Gary Oldman as Lupin myself. Well, him or Ralph Fiennes. But he
is a VERY versatile actor so he could probably go either way. I
always thought Richard E. Grant would make a good Sirius, he's got
the thin frame, intensity, and blue eyes. Alan Cummings would be my
pick for Pettigrew.
I would like to see Gary Olman as a nice guy,it must get boring to be
typecast as the evil psycho killer all the time. Look at how funny
John Malkovich was in 'Being John Malkovich'.
And since this is my first post here I thought I'd throw my pick for
Ludo Bagman out. Has anyone suggested Eddie Izzard? I alsways thought
he'd be perfect for the role since I first read GoF.
Olivia Grey
From bboy_mn at yahoo.com Wed Jan 1 04:09:05 2003
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve )
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 04:09:05 -0000
Subject: RUMOR Only: Rupert as Charlie & Chocolate Factory
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Steve "
wrote:
> This is slightly off topic but it does deal with movies and the cast
> of the HP movies.
>
> "Rupert Grint?s new Film: Charlie and the Chocolate Factory"
> http://www.rupertgrint.net/rumours/gossip_4.htm
>
I just want to add that this is listed and an internet RUMOR,
althought it appears to read like a news article of press release. The
RupertGrint.net sight is not claiming it's true; just a rumor.
Given the film schedule they are already on, it seems almost
impossible. I was just wondering if anyone else had come across this
from a more reliable source.
bboy_mn
From lita at sailordom.com Wed Jan 1 05:23:28 2003
From: lita at sailordom.com (Lita)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:23:28 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] RUMOR Only: Rupert as Charlie & Chocolate Factory
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <20021231221426.B48431-100000@nightwing.sailordom.com>
On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Steve wrote:
> Given the film schedule they are already on, it seems almost
> impossible. I was just wondering if anyone else had come across this
> from a more reliable source.
I think this is simply a rumor--AFAIK (and according to the
film's status at Corona), the Willy Wonka movie is still in
development hell. I don't think there's been news on
the project for a *long* time. There was a director attached
to it over a year ago, but it doesn't have a cast attached,
let alone be ready for a release in 2003.
What's most suspicious, however is that "April 1st" release
date. :) April 1, 2003 is a Tuesday--movies in the US are
usually released on a Friday (and occasionally a Wednesday).
I'm with whoever said it sounds like an early April Fool's
joke. :)
Lita
-----------------------------------------------
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From myphilosophy2001 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 1 05:30:18 2003
From: myphilosophy2001 at yahoo.com (Moonstruck)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 21:30:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] 'Tis the season for awards...
In-Reply-To: <20030101004105.27439.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030101053018.76446.qmail@web20804.mail.yahoo.com>
Petra wrote:
> What I don't get is just WHOM is Daniel Radcliffe
> "supporting." He DOES play the title character
> after all and should be considered a lead actor,
> not supporting...even if he doesn't have much of
> a chance in that category, it's the proper one
> for him.
My response:
I'm in complete agreement about Dan being the clear
lead in the HP movies, but I suspect it's a strategic
move on WB's part. Often times, the studios will
submit an leading actor as a supporting actor,
particularly when the movie in question is a
reletively ensemble piece, when they consider the
competition for "lead actor" category too stiff.
I believe they did the same thing to Elijah Wood for
"LOTR:FOTR" last year. Fan were a bit put off by it as
well, if I remember correctly.
I'm at a COMPLETE loss to explain the Matthew
Lilliard/Scooby-Doo lead actor bid, however!
-Jess :) (Happy New Year!)
=====
"One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star." - Friedrich Neitzsche
http://www.livejournal.com/users/moonstruck4rjl/
Nimbus_2003-A Harry Potter Symposium:
http://www.hp2003.org/index.html
__________________________________________________
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From buffyeton at yahoo.com Wed Jan 1 05:31:23 2003
From: buffyeton at yahoo.com (Tamara )
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 05:31:23 -0000
Subject: Casting Questions
Message-ID:
Okay, as I feel I should cast all the HP movies from now on (I should
have started at the beginning with Harry et.al but oh well), I have a
few questions. Now I've read the books, over and over and over, but
still can't get a total grasp on some of the characters. So please
answer these:
Remus Lupin:
How old:
Looks:
Personality traits:
Sirius Black:
How old:
Looks:
Personality traits:
Thanks as always!
Tamara
From lupinesque at yahoo.com Wed Jan 1 11:52:13 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z )
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 11:52:13 -0000
Subject: poll re: all-British cast
In-Reply-To: <20021231213041.41291.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID:
Petra Pan wrote:
> > What are your thoughts on maintaining
> > an all-British cast
>
> Sorry to reply to this message instead of just
> voting but none of the choices reflect my
> opinion: as long as JKR prefers an all-Brit cast,
> then I hope the filmmakers respect her wishes.
My thoughts exactly. Thank you, Petra!
A peaceful and happy 2003 to all,
Amy Z
From two_c_cs at yahoo.com Wed Jan 1 14:30:22 2003
From: two_c_cs at yahoo.com (two_c_cs )
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 14:30:22 -0000
Subject: New to group
Message-ID:
Hello! My name is Toni. I'm 26 years old, and I love the Harry Potter books and movies! I am wondering... does anyone know where I can find a movie still of Hogwarts? The castle is gorgeous! I am especially looking for the clip between "Who's Nicolas Flamel?" and Hadrid dragging the Christmas tree. There is about a 2 second clip of the outside of Howarts in the snow and it reminds me of a snowglobe. If anyone knows where I can find any pictures of the outside of the castle, please let me know. I can't wait to jump into the discussions of this group!
Toni
From sholden at flash.net Wed Jan 1 16:25:05 2003
From: sholden at flash.net (SHolden)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 10:25:05 -0600
Subject: Question????
Message-ID:
Hi!
I'm relatively new here. I'm on HPforGrownUps list, so I know my way around
here. Anyway, I was hoping someone could help me, it deals with the PoA
movie. I read somewhere that Warner Bros. has put in an order for three
sets to be built. I remember one of those from memory because it was very
odd, it was a sun dial garden. I'm just curious about the other two
sets?????
Like I said, I just remember reading somewhere. I do hope someone can help
OR correct me.
Thanks!
Sara
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From rvotaw at i-55.com Wed Jan 1 18:08:55 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:08:55 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] 'Tis the season for awards/ New to Group/ Question???
References: <20030101053018.76446.qmail@web20804.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00bb01c2b1c0$de732340$ae9ecdd1@RVotaw>
Petra wrote:
> What I don't get is just WHOM is Daniel Radcliffe
> "supporting." He DOES play the title character
> after all and should be considered a lead actor,
> not supporting...even if he doesn't have much of
> a chance in that category, it's the proper one
> for him.
This blew my mind as well. I really don't think any HP actors will have a shot regardless of the categories, simply because that's the way Hollywood works, but anyway, Daniel Radcliffe is a lead actor without a doubt. I mean the kid is in almost every scene in the entire movie. How can you have any supporting actors at all without a lead actor anyway?
Toni writes:
> Hello! My name is Toni. I'm 26 years old, and I love the Harry Potter books and > movies! I am wondering... does anyone know where I can find a movie still of
> Hogwarts? The castle is gorgeous! I am especially looking for the clip between > "Who's Nicolas Flamel?" and Hadrid dragging the Christmas tree. There is about > a 2 second clip of the outside of Howarts in the snow and it reminds me of a
> snowglobe. If anyone knows where I can find any pictures of the outside of the > castle, please let me know. I can't wait to jump into the discussions of this
> group!
Welcome aboard! As for the Hogwarts image, that depends. Are you looking for a digital image or a print? The best place for a print would probably be Ebay, though I haven't seen one, but that doesn't mean there won't be. A digital image I could send via email offlist. I'm 26 too, by the way.
Sara writes:
> I'm relatively new here. I'm on HPforGrownUps list, so I know my way around
> here. Anyway, I was hoping someone could help me, it deals with the PoA
> movie. I read somewhere that Warner Bros. has put in an order for three
> sets to be built. I remember one of those from memory because it was very
> odd, it was a sun dial garden. I'm just curious about the other two
> sets?????
> Like I said, I just remember reading somewhere. I do hope someone can help
> OR correct me.
I believe you're referring to the sets WB wants to build in Glencoe, Scotland. There was the sun dial garden, stone cottages, and a gatehouse. This sounds like Hogsmeade to me. The article was on BBC here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2594093.stm
Richelle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From bboy_mn at yahoo.com Wed Jan 1 19:39:59 2003
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve )
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 19:39:59 -0000
Subject: Casting Questions
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Tamara "
wrote:
> Okay, as I feel I should cast all the HP movies from now on (I
> should have started at the beginning with Harry et.al but oh well),
> I have a few questions. Now I've read the books, over and over and
> over, but still can't get a total grasp on some of the characters.
> So please answer these:
bboy_mn fills in the blanks:
My responses relate to the characteristics of the actor who should
play the character and how the character should be represented.
>
> Remus Lupin: (actors? - really don't know.)
> How old:
An actor between an old 30 and a young 45 could play this character.
There are repeated references to him being young, but at the same time
looking weathered, worn, and weary.
> Looks:
Average height, slightly underweight (5'7" to 5'9"; 125 to 145
pounds); dark blond to brown hair with slight but noticable grey (grey
which could be make-up). Attractive but not devistatingly handsome;
cute in a very manish sort of way.
> Personality traits:
Lupin is a savage, he is a werewolf; a monster, therefore his normal
personality will be gentle and intelligent, but with an unmistakable
underlying inner strength. This is a man who has lived a torturous
hell of a life since he was a little boy, and it's taken it's toll; at
great toll in both physical and psychological stress. At the sametime,
he has weathered this with great strength of character and little
bitterness and resentment. Lupin is a gentle soul, quiet and
unassuming, but at the sametime, he has an unmistakable inner strength
that no wise man would dare to test.
>
> Sirius Black: (actors? - I think both Jason Carter or Viggo
Mortensen have the perfect look)
> How old:
Again, anyone from an old 30 to a young 45 or perhaps even as old as 50.
> Looks:
Above average height (5'9" to 6'0") and strongly built when he is at
his full health. Although, due to being in prison, he would have to be
slightly underweight (130 to 150 pound). Absolutely must have dark or
preferrably black hair, beard (but not a full beard (one like Jason
Carter or Viggo Mortensen)), has a very powerful presents, charismatic
(people's attention is instantly drawn to him), high cheekbones and
hollow cheeks to emphasis how underweight he his, but at the same time
given him a very handsome manly look when his is at a health weight.
During the best of times, unmistakably a ladies man.
> Personality traits:
Srtong presents, attractive, handsome, charismatic (duende), impulsive
even now, although more so when he was younger, stronge emotions,
passionate, but not necessarily hot headed (remember we see him at an
unusual time in his life - PoA), showing both a physical strength even
in his weakened state as well as great strength of character. A
strength of character that is mixed with an element of danger that you
don't see in Lupin. Sirius is a very powerful wizard, something you
know from your first glimpse. Being loyal and having strong emotions
combined with an element of danger tell everyone who comes near that
this is one wizard you do not want to cross. Sirius is strong, dark,
charismatic, handsome, exuding an umistakable aura of danger but at
the same time, the unmistakable essence of an honorable man.
>
> Thanks as always!
>
> Tamara
Of course, that's just my opinion. But I do think it's important for
Lupin to have a gentleness to him that contradicts the werewolf
aspects. Just as I think it is important for Black to have an
unmistakable element of danger combined with the sense that he is an
honorable and trustworth man.
Lupin is the guy your mother wants you to marry (in terms of
personality); and Black is the kind of guy you father absolutely will
not allow you to associate with.
bboy_mn
From irene_mikhlin at yahoo.com Wed Jan 1 21:25:26 2003
From: irene_mikhlin at yahoo.com (irene_mikhlin )
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 21:25:26 -0000
Subject: latest casting rumor
In-Reply-To: <3E111917.8DE37856@pacificpuma.com>
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, jazmyn wrote:
>
> I could see him as Peter maybe, but not Sirius. At least from what
I
> remember of his acting. Need someone a little more imposing for
Sirius.
> I mean, he rides a motorcycle and is supposed to be 'dangerous'
looking
> and all.
OMG, Gary Oldman is not dangerously looking enough for you? And here
I thought they don't make them more dangerous than he is. ;-)
I'd have problems with the other side of Sirius's personality - happy
laughter and Gary Oldman don't sit well together in my mind.
Irene
From boredchocobo at attbi.com Wed Jan 1 10:21:23 2003
From: boredchocobo at attbi.com (Chocobo)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 05:21:23 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Slightly OT but Movie Related: Rupert as Charlie & Chocolate Factory
References:
Message-ID: <000001c2b1f4$3f424740$82647d18@Compuhon>
Heh... pretty good joke. Read the small text at the bottom of the page:
"Rupert's? Rumours. Best Rumours on the Internet. Don't believe a bit of it."
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve
To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 10:53 PM
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Slightly OT but Movie Related: Rupert as Charlie & Chocolate Factory
This is slightly off topic but it does deal with movies and the cast
of the HP movies.
"Rupert Grint?s new Film: Charlie and the Chocolate Factory"
http://www.rupertgrint.net/rumours/gossip_4.htm
OK so Rupert is in a new film. I'm very very happy for him. But there
is more. Not only is Rupert in the movie but so is....
Emma Watson as Veruca Salt
Harry Melling (Dudley) as Augustus Gloop
Tom Felton as Mike Tevee
Elenor Columbus (presumably Chris Columbus's Daughter) as Violet
Beureguard
Michelle Pfeiffer as young Charlie's mum
Jim Carrey playing the top man himself Wonka
Also joining the star packed cast will be Meg Ryan and Daniel
Radcliffe as the famous Umpa Lumpas
Meg Ryan and Michelle Pfeiffer ....? ...really?
Now for the clincher. The release date for this movie is...
April 1, 2003.
Is that even possible?
If it's true, I say GREAT, this time Rupert gets to play the Hero, but
, as much as I like the idea, it sound almost impossible given the
schedule with PoA.
Just thought I would throw that in.
bboy_mn
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From jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com Thu Jan 2 02:52:15 2003
From: jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com (Haggridd )
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 02:52:15 -0000
Subject: More Shrieking in the Shack: WAS: Re: Casting news? Oldman
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Amy Z "
wrote:
> I never thought of him because I was under the misapprehension that
he
> was American (I think the only thing I've seen him in is JFK). I
> can't see him as Sirius, but as Peter, yes. That's probably
because
> he is so thoroughly Lee Harvey Oswald in my head.
>
> Amy
> very very glad that Ben Affleck is ruled out on the basis of
> nationality
What a passel of Marauders: Sirius Black-- Sean Bean
Remus Lupin-- Ralph Fiennes
Peter Pettigrew-- Gary Oldman
Can you just imagine the Shrieking Shack scene with them and Alan
Rickman? Nirvana!
Ben Affleck cannot hold any of the above four actors' makeup cases
when it comes to acting, whatever his nationality. Hasn't anybody
here had the misfortune to see Pearl Harbor?
Haggridd
From buffyeton at yahoo.com Thu Jan 2 05:03:45 2003
From: buffyeton at yahoo.com (Tamara )
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 05:03:45 -0000
Subject: Casting Questions
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Steve "
wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Tamara "
> wrote:
> > Okay, as I feel I should cast all the HP movies from now on (I
> > should have started at the beginning with Harry et.al but oh
well),
> > I have a few questions. Now I've read the books, over and over
and
> > over, but still can't get a total grasp on some of the
characters.
> > So please answer these:
>
> bboy_mn fills in the blanks:
>
> My responses relate to the characteristics of the actor who should
> play the character and how the character should be represented.
>
> >
> > Remus Lupin: (actors? - really don't know.)
>
> > How old:
> An actor between an old 30 and a young 45 could play this character.
> There are repeated references to him being young, but at the same
time
> looking weathered, worn, and weary.
> > Sirius Black: (actors? - I think both Jason Carter or Viggo
> Mortensen have the perfect look)
>
> > How old:
> Again, anyone from an old 30 to a young 45 or perhaps even as old
as 50.
>
> > Looks:
> Above average height (5'9" to 6'0") and strongly built when he is at
> his full health. Although, due to being in prison, he would have to
be
> slightly underweight (130 to 150 pound). Absolutely must have dark
or
> preferrably black hair, beard (but not a full beard (one like Jason
> Carter or Viggo Mortensen)), has a very powerful presents,
charismatic
> (people's attention is instantly drawn to him), high cheekbones and
> hollow cheeks to emphasis how underweight he his, but at the same
time
> given him a very handsome manly look when his is at a health weight.
> During the best of times, unmistakably a ladies man.
> Lupin is the guy your mother wants you to marry (in terms of
> personality); and Black is the kind of guy you father absolutely
will
> not allow you to associate with.
>
> bboy_mn
Steve, that is freaky deaky! One of my top two actors for Sirus
Black was Jason Carter! I was watching a rerun of 90210 the other
day that he was in and I immeditely went "that should be Sirius
Black!" lol. My other picks are James Callis, Jason Flemyng and Max
Beesley.
As for Lupin, it's a bit more complicated. It is much harder to find
an actor that has that sort of natural sensitivty to him that Lupin
has. I think maybe James Purefoy, or Damian Lewis. Or, and don't
laugh here, because I am serious, Hugh Grant. Of course my favorite
pick for Lupin would be Anthony Stewart Head, but he is most likely
too old for the role. Ioan Gruffudd may be another, but he may be
too young.
Tamara
From plumeski at yahoo.com Thu Jan 2 05:05:17 2003
From: plumeski at yahoo.com (GulPlum )
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 05:05:17 -0000
Subject: Casting Questions
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
Steve (bboy_mn)wrote:
> Lupin is the guy your mother wants you to marry (in terms of
> personality); and Black is the kind of guy you father absolutely
> will not allow you to associate with.
I'd add a few further attributes to each of them which I consider
just as important (in some ways related to the above quote).
Apart from Lupin's gentleness which Steve underlined so much, I see
him as having a very distinguished bearing, despite his external
shabinness. His poor appearance is due to lack of funds rather than
as a direct result of his lycanthropy (his condition makes it
difficult for him to find work and thus feed or dress himself
properly). He's very aware of his talents and abilities (as a human
being, if not necessarily as a wizard) but is also permanently aware
of the limitations imposed by being "ill" regularly for about a week
in every four. I see him as a man who, despite his shabby appearance,
immediately commands respect, but not fear. More than just about any
other character in the Potterverse, I see him as representing the
best of the British middle classes.
This is perhaps very idiosyncratic, but the way I see his eyes is
very important to me. They should be warm and non-threatening, but at
the same time world-weary and tired.
One thing which is very important to me is the way people speak; I
appreciate that for people unattuned to the diversity of British
speech patterns this might be irrelevant or not discernable, but one
thing about the casting to date which has impressed me the most has
been the care taken with that aspect. The kind of voices and the way
the actors speak has been spot on.
The way I hear (rather than see) Lupin is therefore quite important
to me, and further to above, I hear him very much with an educated
middle-class accent and all that goes with it. Not quite as clipped
as Emma Watson's Hermione, perhaps, and not quite as populistically
West London as Alan Rickman's Snape, but somewhere in the middle.
As I've said many times before, Jeremy Irons is one actor who
immediately springs to my mind as representing the attributes I've
listed (if he downgrades his natural accent just a little). Others
(of whom non-Brits may not have heard) are Simon Williams (no pics on
IMDB, but I found a fairly recent one here:
http://www.bigevent.co.uk/live/home/news/simon/sw1.jpg - he's on the
right; or a hard closeup of his face on this page:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/womanshour/07_01_02/tuesday/info3.shtml)
or Nigel Havers (again, no pics on IMDB, but there are several on
this site which is about his stance on a particular UK political
issue rather than his acting talent; his father was a prominent
figure in British legal and political life:
http://www.nigelhaversalliance.com).
Sirius, on the other hand, I see as quite the opposite of Lupin in
many ways. Though obviously physically emaciated after a dozen years
in Azkaban, he's very physically imposing - he should have something
of the boxer's build about him (no, I don't necessarily mean a
heavyweight!) and a physical certainty about himself. He's very "in
your face", and the kind of person whose apparance you don't forget
very quickly. He's a very intimidating presence. Unlike Lupin, not
someone you immediately feel compelled to respect, but if not fear,
then at least feel anxious around. Quite clearly from canon, he's got
a short temper, and doesn't mind people knowing it. I actually
wouldn't like for him to played by yet another middle class actor
with a typical middle class British accent. I see a definite
roughness in his speech, though not necessarily a regional accent.
To be perfectly honest, the kind of actor I'd think of is Jason
Isaacs, if he wasn't already engaged elsewhere in the Potter
series. :-)
I was going to comment on the ongoing conversation (which I had to
interrupt for the last week or so) about their being believable as
Alan Rickman's contemporaries, but I'll leave that for a separate
post as it's already gone 5am... :-)
From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com Thu Jan 2 06:31:30 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 22:31:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: 'Tis the season for awards...
In-Reply-To: <20030101053018.76446.qmail@web20804.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030102063130.21285.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com>
Yours truly:
> What I don't get is just WHOM is Daniel
> Radcliffe "supporting." He DOES play the title
> character after all and should be considered a
> lead actor, not supporting...even if he doesn't
> have much of a chance in that category, it's
> the proper one for him.
Jess replied:
> I'm in complete agreement about Dan being the
> clear lead in the HP movies, but I suspect it's
> a strategic move on WB's part. Often times, the
> studios will submit an leading actor as a
> supporting actor, particularly when the movie
> in question is a reletively ensemble piece,
> when they consider the competition for "lead
> actor" category too stiff.
Yes, differentiating between a lead and a
supporting role can often be difficult. But in
this case? Not so much. IMO, in wedging Daniel
into a category that doesn't apply, Warner Bros.
has called attention to their lack of belief in
Daniel's chances of competing in his rightful
category.
There's no call for this: Daniel has no reason to
be ashamed if he doesn't get a nomination for his
work as a lead actor at this point in his career.
I just don't think this improves Daniel's
chances - the competition in the supporting
category is pretty stiff too - and hedging their
bets this way is rather obvious as a bit of a
cheat. This just doesn't seem like the
Gryffindor thing to do, does it?
As much as I think those who played Vernon,
Petunia, Mr. & Mrs. Weasley and Filch did
admirable jobs with the tiny parts they had, the
fact that they were part of this "For Your
Consideration" ad may be key. Perhaps the ad is
not so much to remind the voters of outstanding
performances as it is to avoid offending any of
the cast by leaving them out of the ad. Putting
everyone in the same category could also serve
that purpose, I suppose.
If I am right, then Warner Bros. must have
thought Christian Coulson unlikely to take
offense at being left out despite playing the key
role of the film's villain, a part that is more
significant than that of Vernon, Petunia, Mr. &
Mrs. Weasley and Filch. Or, perhaps burning
their bridge with Coulson is considered to be of
little matter...but what if the young Riddle
makes an appearance in the not-yet-written books?
Petra
a
n :)
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From bloubet at incanmonkey.com Thu Jan 2 08:31:42 2003
From: bloubet at incanmonkey.com (bloubet at incanmonkey.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 01:31:42 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Casting
In-Reply-To: <1041429823.1957.43504.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <1041496301.9974@incanmonkey.com>
I'm afraid that there are 2 problems with Viggo Mortensen and Hugh Jackman. First, neither is British. Second, both are busy. (And I'll certainly be glad to see them on the big screen again soon. )
Jackman is still working on X-Men 2 (yes? I don't think they're done with it yet...) and Mortensen starts filming later this month for The Alamo, with Dennis Quaid and Billy Bob Thornton.
I think there are still several good choices there for casting Remus and Sirius, though. Enough that I just can't decide who I'd prefer. What a dilemma -- too many good-looking men!
Cummings as Pettigrew is a LOVELY idea, though. I do like that.
bel
From saitaina at wizzards.net Thu Jan 2 13:27:45 2003
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 05:27:45 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: 'Tis the season for awards...
References: <20030102063130.21285.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <02a401c2b262$bd2a4b80$54bbefd8@p2x5n9>
Petra wrote:
< What I don't get is just WHOM is
Daniel
Radcliffe "supporting." He DOES play
the title
character after all and should be
considered a
lead actor, not supporting...even if he
doesn't
have much of a chance in that category,
it's
the proper one for him.>
Daniel IS the title character but he is
also a part of three person ensamble
lead. A lot of the voters may not have
read the books and see it as such. I
think WB's move to shove them into
supporting cast might actually be a
smart move to ensure a Harry Potter win
that will help them rather then a loss
if they had entered him into the lead
catagory.
As for some of the other actors
mentioned in the same catagory, while I
loved the movie and adored performances
I think the list should have been
wittled down severly. There are certain
performances that just arent' memerable
enough to be included.
I think the WB has to high of hopes for
how many awards they can win for this
movie though. As a Harry Potter fan I
will always love it, but on it's own
merrits, it fell flat compaired to a
great many movies out this year. Many
of the catagories they wish to compete
in have far more movies to fill the
slots.
On the other and completly related not
of scooby doo-
While Scooby-Doo WAS a complete and full
ensamble lead, I left the movie feeling
rather put out by the acting and the
only shining spot WAS Matthew Lillard
who was Shagggy through and through. I
wouldn't mind seeing him nominated and
win because he carried a lot of the
movie when most of the audiance was
bored or tuning out. I would also like
to see this movie up for special effects
for Scooby and Scrappy but that's just
my opinion.
Saitaina
From renati at link.net.id Thu Jan 2 13:33:08 2003
From: renati at link.net.id (Renati Adriani)
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 20:33:08 +0700
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Gary Oldman (was: latest casting rumor)
In-Reply-To:
References: <3E111917.8DE37856@pacificpuma.com>
Message-ID:
>> I could see him as Peter maybe, but not Sirius. At least from what I
>> remember of his acting. Need someone a little more imposing for
>Sirius.
>> I mean, he rides a motorcycle and is supposed to be 'dangerous'
>looking
>> and all.
>
>OMG, Gary Oldman is not dangerously looking enough for you? And here
>I thought they don't make them more dangerous than he is. ;-)
>
>I'd have problems with the other side of Sirius's personality - happy
>laughter and Gary Oldman don't sit well together in my mind.
I agree with that last bit. Plus I don't think he'd make a very convincing
father figure either. He doesn't strike me as the kind of persona who'd be
transformed by the idea of taking care of a kid - the very reason I fell in
love with Sirius, as it happens - much less take that responsibility very
seriously.
On the other hand, I can easily picture him as Moody. Might be too young
for that one though.
Tituk
From renati at link.net.id Thu Jan 2 13:47:57 2003
From: renati at link.net.id (Renati Adriani)
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 20:47:57 +0700
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] 'Tis the season for awards...
In-Reply-To: <20030101004105.27439.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID:
>BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR
(snip)
Whoa - they left out Christian Coulson??!! But he was one of the strong
points of the film! Indeed, he and Jason Isaacs would get my vote for best
actors out of the lot. Maybe his agent lacked clout? :(
Tituk
From urbana at charter.net Thu Jan 2 15:18:30 2003
From: urbana at charter.net (Anne )
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:18:30 -0000
Subject: Casting Questions
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "GulPlum "
wrote:
>
> This is perhaps very idiosyncratic, but the way I see [Lupin's]
eyes is
> very important to me. They should be warm and non-threatening, but
at
> the same time world-weary and tired.
RALPH FIENNES!! RALPH FIENNES!! RALPH FIENNES!! (Did I suggest Ralph
Fiennes yet??) Thanks, Richard, for the absolutely perfect
description of *Ralph's* eyes ... even if you perhaps didn't know you
were describing them :-)
> One thing which is very important to me is the way people speak; I
> appreciate that for people unattuned to the diversity of British
> speech patterns this might be irrelevant or not discernable, but
one
> thing about the casting to date which has impressed me the most has
> been the care taken with that aspect. The kind of voices and the
way
> the actors speak has been spot on.
>
> The way I hear (rather than see) Lupin is therefore quite important
> to me, and further to above, I hear him very much with an educated
> middle-class accent and all that goes with it. Not quite as clipped
> as Emma Watson's Hermione, perhaps, and not quite as populistically
> West London as Alan Rickman's Snape, but somewhere in the middle.
>
Well there you go ... Ralph again! :-)
Others
> (of whom non-Brits may not have heard) are Simon Williams (
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/womanshour/07_01_02/tuesday/info3.shtml)
Is this James from Upstairs Downstairs? Yikes. Probably too old (but
he's still handsome).
> or Nigel Havers
Hmmm. Hadn't thought of Nigel ... but he could do too (he's certainly
a contemporary of Alan Rickman!)
Anne U
(still lobbying for Ralph For Lupin though I realize it's not likely)
From rvotaw at i-55.com Thu Jan 2 16:34:28 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:34:28 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Casting/ Tis the season for awards
References: <1041496301.9974@incanmonkey.com>
Message-ID: <00d001c2b27c$d26e0670$3aa2cdd1@RVotaw>
bel writes:
> I'm afraid that there are 2 problems with Viggo Mortensen and Hugh Jackman.
> First, neither is British. Second, both are busy. (And I'll certainly be glad
> to see them on the big screen again soon. )
Details, details. :) Still, I think Viggo Mortensen could blend well. There is the problem of filming elsewhere, however, whoever is cast as Sirius Black won't be needed that much. One big scene in the Shrieking Shack and on the way back to Hogwarts, a scene over Ron in Gryffindor dorms, and a brief follow up scene later (where he escapes). The rest is just his picture on wanted posters and Snuffles. Lupin will need to be more readily available, though, I would think.
Saitaina writes:
> Daniel IS the title character but he is also a part of three person ensamble
> lead. A lot of the voters may not have read the books and see it as such. I
> think WB's move to shove them into supporting cast might actually be a
> smart move to ensure a Harry Potter win that will help them rather then a loss
> if they had entered him into the lead catagory.
On a side note regarding Daniel's lead/supporting role, I was going through my HP weekly 2003 planner last night naming off the characters in each week's picture. I was nearly finished when my mom said jokingly (after innumerable "Harry" pictures), "But he's just a supporting actor, right? He's not the star or anything."
> As for some of the other actors mentioned in the same catagory, while I
> loved the movie and adored performances I think the list should have been
> wittled down severly. There are certain performances that just arent'
> memerable enough to be included.
I personally would've had it this way:
Lead actor:
Daniel Radcliffe (regardless of whether he stands a chance or not, I mean really, does anyone actually expect him to get a nomination as a supporting actor? I'm crazy about him, but Hollywood and I don't generally agree).
Supporting actors:
Rupert Grint
Emma Watson
Tom Felton
Jason Isaacs
Alan Rickman
Miriam Margoyles
Maggie Smith
Richard Harris
Kenneth Branagh
Christian Coulson
There. I'd have left it at that and been done with it. I don't think I left anyone too major off.
> I think the WB has to high of hopes for how many awards they can win for this
> movie though.
Myself, I don't anticipate many at all. It's too clean for one thing. I would think the most nominations would be possibly Musical score, set design, possibly costume design?
Richelle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From two_c_cs at yahoo.com Thu Jan 2 16:50:21 2003
From: two_c_cs at yahoo.com (two_c_cs )
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 16:50:21 -0000
Subject: 'Tis the season for awards/ New to Group/ Question???
In-Reply-To: <00bb01c2b1c0$de732340$ae9ecdd1@RVotaw>
Message-ID:
Richelle,
A digital image would be great, if you have one. I really appreciate it! Thanks!
Toni
From splinched at hotmail.com Thu Jan 2 17:40:46 2003
From: splinched at hotmail.com (eudaemonia_splinched )
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 17:40:46 -0000
Subject: Casting/ Tis the season for awards
In-Reply-To: <00d001c2b27c$d26e0670$3aa2cdd1@RVotaw>
Message-ID:
> bel writes:
>
> Daniel Radcliffe (regardless of whether he stands
> a chance or not, I mean really, does anyone actually
> expect him to get a nomination as a supporting actor?
> I'm crazy about him, but Hollywood and I don't
> generally agree).
>
I agree... which is why I'm not even betting that ANY of the Harry
Potter actors get nods although I'd be pleasantly surprised if they
do. Too much politics, in my opinion (in the overall industry, not
just the awards). The all-Brit cast requirement may have left a bad
taste in their mouths (if so, how childish of them!) and, to be quite
frank, I don't think the majority of the Academy voters were big fans
of this sequel -- it's doing better overseas than in the US -- as
indicated by Box Office numbers which I think is a factor. Just look
at the Titanic. Not the ONLY factor, mind you. If Hollywood thought
it shocking, thought-provoking, emotionally riveting, etc. it'd get
the Academy's attention. However, it's still considered a kids movie
(hmph!) -- they were marketing it towards kids from what I can
perceive in their advertisements (posters and commercial slots) and
the movie previews shown before the actual movie ("What A Girl
Wants?" and that Nickelodeon cartoon movie? *shiver*). And I've
noticed lately that the only kids movies that get serious attention
are those done completely in computer animation.
After the Sorcerer's Stone Chris Columbus seemed to focus mainly on
getting the visual effects right on for this sequel, and he did, so
he may get those people nominated.
I'd rather watch the BAFTA awards. It's being held on the same night
isn't it? I wonder if it'll be televised...
Eu
From splinched at hotmail.com Thu Jan 2 17:43:05 2003
From: splinched at hotmail.com (eudaemonia_splinched )
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 17:43:05 -0000
Subject: Casting/ Tis the season for awards
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
--- I wrote:
> > bel writes:
> >
> > Daniel Radcliffe (regardless of whether he stands
> > a chance or not, I mean really, does anyone actually
> > expect him to get a nomination as a supporting actor?
> > I'm crazy about him, but Hollywood and I don't
> > generally agree).
> >
>
> I agree...
oops! the person I was quoting was "Richelle", not "bel" sorry about
that...
Eu
From itzregina at hanson.net Thu Jan 2 19:08:16 2003
From: itzregina at hanson.net (Regina )
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 19:08:16 -0000
Subject: POA release rumor
Message-ID:
http://www.moviehole.net/news.php?newsid=814 June 04.
A summer movie? I guess that will work. I'm just used to November
releases :-)
Gina
From heidit at netbox.com Thu Jan 2 19:30:29 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:30:29 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] POA release rumor
Message-ID:
They've been saying this would be a summer release for a few months now - they're not even starting filming until september. And in November 03 the matrix's final will be released as well as lotr. Too much competition.
-----Original Message-----
From: "Regina "
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 19:08:16
To:HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] POA release rumor
Real-To: "Regina "
http://www.moviehole.net/news.php?newsid=814 June 04.
A summer movie? I guess that will work. I'm just used to November
releases :-)
Gina
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From rvotaw at i-55.com Thu Jan 2 21:26:42 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:26:42 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] POA release rumor
References: <200301021942.h02Jgnq31808@mx.i-55.com>
Message-ID: <004a01c2b2a5$a592e250$d89fcdd1@RVotaw>
Heidi Tandy wrote:
> They've been saying this would be a summer release for a few months now
> they're not even starting filming until september. And in November 03 the
> matrix's final will be released as well as lotr. Too much competition.
Err, what did I miss? I thought they were starting filming in February? If they don't start filming until September, there's no way they could make it a summer release. That's only 9 months, and isn't it generally 10 months filming plus editing, etc.? What with the limited hours and all.
Richelle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From timregan at microsoft.com Thu Jan 2 22:55:14 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan )
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:55:14 -0000
Subject: HP and the Chamber of Nepotism
Message-ID:
Hi All,
I watched the film again over Christmas (third time only ? I know
I'm slacking) and stayed for the extra scene after the credits. One
thing that struck me was the number of times Columbus pops up as a
surname. IMDB lists three of them http://us.imdb.com/Credits?0295297
though it felt like there were more:
Eleanor Columbus .... Susan Bones
Violet Columbus .... Girl with Flowers
Brendan Columbus .... Boy in Study Hall 1
Is this just coincidence?
Cheers,
Dumbledad.
PS They've still got JKR down as "Knockturn Alley Witch #1
(uncredited)", I thought that was firmly denied now.
From divaclv at aol.com Thu Jan 2 23:28:55 2003
From: divaclv at aol.com (c_voth312 )
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 23:28:55 -0000
Subject: HP and the Chamber of Nepotism
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Tim Regan "
wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I watched the film again over Christmas (third time only ? I know
> I'm slacking) and stayed for the extra scene after the credits. One
> thing that struck me was the number of times Columbus pops up as a
> surname. IMDB lists three of them http://us.imdb.com/Credits?
0295297
> though it felt like there were more:
>
> Eleanor Columbus .... Susan Bones
> Violet Columbus .... Girl with Flowers
> Brendan Columbus .... Boy in Study Hall 1
>
> Is this just coincidence?
We know for certain that it isn't in Eleanor's case--she's Chris'
daughter. The others, I'm not sure.
Casting one's relatives in small (or even not-so-small) roles is not
uncommon among directors. Peter Jackson's kids show up in both LOTR
films (and I'm guessing they'll get the hat trick), and most of Ron
Howard's extended family pops up during the course of "Apollo 13"
(Clint's in Mission Control, dad's a priest, and mom plays Lovell's
mother).
>
> PS They've still got JKR down as "Knockturn Alley Witch #1
> (uncredited)", I thought that was firmly denied now.
Weird...they took the tidbit of the "trivia" page, so I'd assumed it
was denied (or at least, questionable) as well.
~Christi
From timregan at microsoft.com Fri Jan 3 00:30:06 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan )
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 00:30:06 -0000
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Enormous_hole_in_the_ground_=96_how_secret_is_that=3F?=
Message-ID:
Hi All,
On my third watching of CoS three things struck me as odd:
Exit from the Chamber:
When they all fly out of the chamber they fly through an enormous
hole in the ground with the mist shrouded castle in the background,
not into a bathroom. When the various great wizards and witches have
searched for the CoS over the years I wonder why they didn't look in
the big hole.
I can't remember the other two ? I'll have to see it again :-)
Cheers,
Dumbledad.
From heidit at netbox.com Fri Jan 3 01:55:06 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 21:55:06 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: HP and the Chamber of Nepotism
Message-ID:
Chris wrote:
**Weird...they took the tidbit of the "trivia" page, so I'd assumed it
was denied (or at least, questionable) as well.**
It's inaccurate. She's not in the movie. We at Leaky Cauldron got confirmation from On High about that.
And I apologize for my typo about poa before. March is the scheduled start date for principal photography, at this point. I'd been up since 2am and was clearly not thinking and typing at the same time.
Heidi
Follow me to Nimbus - 2003!
Http://www.hp2003.org
From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com Fri Jan 3 04:05:40 2003
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora )
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 04:05:40 -0000
Subject: HP and the Chamber of Nepotism
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Tim Regan "
wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I watched the film again over Christmas (third time only ? I know
> I'm slacking) and stayed for the extra scene after the credits.
One
> thing that struck me was the number of times Columbus pops up as a
> surname. IMDB lists three of them http://us.imdb.com/Credits?
0295297
> though it felt like there were more:
>
> Eleanor Columbus .... Susan Bones
> Violet Columbus .... Girl with Flowers
> Brendan Columbus .... Boy in Study Hall 1
>
> Is this just coincidence?
I had noticed that, too. I think those are his children. Doesn't
he have four? I was wondering why the fourth one was left out ;)
Alora
From lilac_bearry at yahoo.com Fri Jan 3 08:57:40 2003
From: lilac_bearry at yahoo.com (Lilac)
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 00:57:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: COS Puppet Theatre and some Behind-the-Scenes COS pics
Message-ID: <20030103085740.27958.qmail@web40301.mail.yahoo.com>
Jerry the Frog Production's newest release...
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets Puppet Theatre
or "Should Have Used Duct Tape"
http://www.jerrythefrogproductions.com/ChamberOfSecrets.html
best lines (imo)...
Harry: Hagrid, what are you doing here (in Knockturn Alley)?
Hagrid: I'm, um...getting flesh-eating slug repellent. Yeah.
Harry: ...You're selling drugs, aren't you?
Hagrid: Go play with Ron and Hermione, Harry.
Oh, and Dumbledore has more in common with Nearly Headless Nick than we thought (wink wink, nudge nudge)...
Dumbledore (in re: to Fawkes burning): Don't worry...he's not dead, he's just pinin'. He's got lovely plumage.
Also, a ton of behind the scene pictures at http://www.rupertgrint.org/index2.htm , including Rupert getting slugs put *into* his mouth...kind of gross, but interesting all the same.
Just so's ya know...
~Lilac~
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"Professor, can you show me that blocking thing again?"
Lockhart cuffed Harry merrily on the shoulder. "Just do what I did, Harry!"
"What, drop my wand?"
--Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From siskiou at earthlink.net Fri Jan 3 09:30:19 2003
From: siskiou at earthlink.net (Susanne)
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:30:19 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] COS Puppet Theatre and some Behind-the-Scenes COS pics
In-Reply-To: <20030103085740.27958.qmail@web40301.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20030103085740.27958.qmail@web40301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <13540354234.20030103013019@earthlink.net>
Hi,
Friday, January 03, 2003, 12:57:40 AM, lilac_bearry at yahoo.com wrote:
> including Rupert getting slugs
> put *into* his mouth...kind of gross, but interesting all the same.
I loved looking through all the pictures and now officially
want some HP movie bloopers.
Interesting to see a smiling Snape, too! ;)
--
Best regards,
Susanne mailto:siskiou at earthlink.net
From saitaina at wizzards.net Fri Jan 3 12:14:27 2003
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 04:14:27 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] POA release rumor
References: <200301021942.h02Jgnq31808@mx.i-55.com> <004a01c2b2a5$a592e250$d89fcdd1@RVotaw>
Message-ID: <006a01c2b321$aa22df60$0dbaefd8@oemcomputer>
Richelle wrote:
Depends on the movie but for most special
effects laden ones they have to have a year
to complete everything from primary shots to
final editing and insertion of effects.
Unless they have quite a bit of footage in
the can already they couldn't pull off a
summer release. Not even filming in
February. I'm looking towards the 2004
release date we first heard about as the
actual release and actually quite happy with
that because it cuts down on rushes and let's
the film makers take a bit more time tweaking
this one.
Saitaina
****
http://www.livejournal.com/users/saitaina
James: "Option One is that we go back into
the jail cell and pretend we have no idea how
the couch came to be lying in the hall when
he comes back."
Giles: "Xander don't speak Latin in front of
the books."
Phoebe: We're rescuing you from the tall
dark, and naked man"
From potterfan23 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 3 16:33:31 2003
From: potterfan23 at hotmail.com (Emily F)
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 10:33:31 -0600
Subject: Awards for CoS - Seriously?! (was: Casting/ Tis the season for awards)
Message-ID:
Does it really matter what category Daniel is entered into? Does anyone
seriously think he has a chance??? No offense meant to Daniel, because he's
off to a great start, but he still has plenty of room to grow as an actor.
When stacked against seasoned actors (including Daniel Day Lewis, Leonardo
diCaprio, Jack Nicholson, Michael Caine, and Tom Hanks - who probably
wouldn't win, but at least deserved a GG nomination!) for the Oscars, he
doesn't stand a chance. When it comes to the supporting actors, all of the
best actors have such small roles that I would be utterly amazed if they
won. I adore Alan Rickman and Maggie Smith, but how long are they actually
on screen in CoS? Needless to say that Rupert Grint and Emma Watkins still
have a long way to go before they deserve an Oscar, or any other acting
award (again, no offense meant to either of them!).
OT: I'm not sure whether Daniel Day Lewis will fall under Best Actor or Best
Supporting Actor, but I haven't seen a performance like that in a long time!
Gangs of New York is worth seeing - at full price - just for him. :-)
As for the other categories, I can't think of any in which CoS deserves to
win. The closest they could come is in the special effects categories, but
Two Towers has CoS beaten, hands down. I'm sure CoS gave it the ol' college
try, but Jackson & team had a whole lot more time (and money, I think) to
craft the effects for TT.
All in all, there were some really excellent films released this year. CoS
was definitely not one of them. I would toss it, and not even gently, into
the mediocre pile. Mediocre movies don't deserve awards, even if they
sometimes end up with them. ;-)
Emily
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From sophiamcl at hotmail.com Fri Jan 3 17:48:14 2003
From: sophiamcl at hotmail.com (sophia mclaughlin)
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 17:48:14 +0000
Subject: Enourmous hole in the ground--how secret is that?
Message-ID:
Dumbledad wrote:
On my third watching of CoS three things struck me as odd:
Exit from the Chamber:
When they all fly out of the chamber they fly through an enormous
hole in the ground with the mist shrouded castle in the background,
not into a bathroom. When the various great wizards and witches have
searched for the CoS over the years I wonder why they didn't look in
the big hole.
Me: Typically uncanonical slip-up of the movie-makers. I suppose they felt
it made a more impressive shot, and they've got a point (however lacking in
logic).
Sophia
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From timregan at microsoft.com Fri Jan 3 18:13:02 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan )
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 18:13:02 -0000
Subject: Who opened the CoS to zapJustin and NHN?
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
Hi All,
--- I wrote:
> On my third watching of CoS three things struck me as odd:
> I can't remember the other two ? I'll have to see it again
I've remembered number two :-)
Ginny's Alibi
Harry is sat in some kind of homework session with everybody working
away. We see Ginny writing in her diary and various other people
working. Harry gets fed up with all the suspicious glances he's
getting and tells Ron and Hermione he'll see them later in the
common room. Having left the homework room Harry hears the Basilisk
again and follows its voice until he discovers a petrified Justin
and Nearly Headless Nick. But who led the Basilisk out and back into
the Chamber this time? It cannot be Ginny since we saw her in the
homework club with the diary.
Cheers,
Dumbledad.
PS I'm not very good with the search-engine-that-should-not-be-
named, so if this has been discussed to death already, please just
point me at the message number.
From sholden at flash.net Fri Jan 3 18:48:48 2003
From: sholden at flash.net (SHolden)
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:48:48 -0600
Subject: SS/PS Movie
Message-ID:
Hey guys,
I was just rewatching Socerer's Stone and we know that Percy is a perfect
during Harry's first year. However, I noticed that in the scene after
Harry's flying lesson. Y'all know the one with McGonagall, Harry, & Oliver
Wood. Wood comes out from the Defense Against the Darks Arts class to see
what McGonagall wants. Anyway, I noticed that Wood is wearing a Prefects
badge like Percy's.
Is this just a fluke or is this something?????
Sorry if this has been talked about already! I haven't had time to search
the archives.
Sara
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From divaclv at aol.com Fri Jan 3 23:20:35 2003
From: divaclv at aol.com (c_voth312 )
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 23:20:35 -0000
Subject: Enourmous hole in the ground--how secret is that?
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "sophia mclaughlin"
wrote:
> Me: Typically uncanonical slip-up of the movie-makers. I suppose
they felt
> it made a more impressive shot, and they've got a point (however
lacking in
> logic).
Nevertheless, some suggestions:
1.) The hole was somehow caused during the cave-in.
2.) The hole is only visible from the inside of the Chamber, and not
the outside (kind of like a two-way mirror).
~Christi, who always wondered how a bird with Fawkes' wingspan was
supposed to fly up that pipe in the first place...
From jazmyn at pacificpuma.com Sat Jan 4 00:05:33 2003
From: jazmyn at pacificpuma.com (jazmyn)
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 18:05:33 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re:Re:Enourmous hole in the ground--how secret is
that?
References:
Message-ID: <3E16254D.E7E3B45A@pacificpuma.com>
"c_voth312 " wrote:
>
> --- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "sophia mclaughlin"
> wrote:
> > Me: Typically uncanonical slip-up of the movie-makers. I suppose
> they felt
> > it made a more impressive shot, and they've got a point (however
> lacking in
> > logic).
>
> Nevertheless, some suggestions:
>
> 1.) The hole was somehow caused during the cave-in.
>
> 2.) The hole is only visible from the inside of the Chamber, and not
> the outside (kind of like a two-way mirror).
>
> ~Christi, who always wondered how a bird with Fawkes' wingspan was
> supposed to fly up that pipe in the first place...
Maybe the hole would have been in the forest and noone would brave the
giant spiders to get near enough to see it as the entrance to anything?
Would YOU enter any cave in the Forbidden Forest? Its insane to even go
into the forest, let alone a CAVE in that forest.
Jazmyn
From lita at sailordom.com Sat Jan 4 08:33:11 2003
From: lita at sailordom.com (Lita)
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:33:11 -0700 (MST)
Subject: More on Dumbledore casting
Message-ID: <20030104012534.W57695-100000@nightwing.sailordom.com>
According to Corona, reports on Entertainment Tonight and TV
Guide on Friday say that WB has officially denied that
Michael Gambon has been cast as Dumbledore for PoA.
http://www.corona.bc.ca/films/details/harrypotter3.html
Lita
-----------------------------------------------
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From geri510 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 4 21:45:36 2003
From: geri510 at yahoo.com (geri510 )
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 21:45:36 -0000
Subject: PoA Casting Idea
Message-ID:
Just thought of this - how about Tim Roth (he is British) for Peter
Pettigrew? I recently saw him in Planet of the Apes & think that he
would make a great Peter (from what I've read) & I don't think I've
read his name anywhere.
What do you think?
From urbana at charter.net Sat Jan 4 23:22:31 2003
From: urbana at charter.net (Anne )
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 23:22:31 -0000
Subject: PoA Casting Idea
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "geri510 "
wrote:
> Just thought of this - how about Tim Roth (he is British) for Peter
> Pettigrew? I recently saw him in Planet of the Apes & think that he
> would make a great Peter (from what I've read) & I don't think I've
> read his name anywhere.
>
> What do you think?
OMG .. Tim Roth as Peter??? How perfect. He's a terrific villain
(see "Rob Roy" for a great example) and wonderful at sniveling. And
he's even British.
Has anyone besides me seen the "news item" online that Gary Oldman
has been cast for *the next 2* HP films, meaning PoA and GoF?? To me
that means he's been cast as either Sirius or Peter. I wish I could
find the link to where I saw that.
Anne U
(who thinks Gary could handle Voldie pretty well too ;-)
From SusanXG at hotmail.com Sun Jan 5 01:49:06 2003
From: SusanXG at hotmail.com (Susan XG)
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 19:49:06 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: PoA Casting Idea
Message-ID:
>>>>>>Has anyone besides me seen the "news item" online that Gary Oldman
has been cast for *the next 2* HP films, meaning PoA and GoF?? To me
that means he's been cast as either Sirius or Peter. I wish I could
find the link to where I saw that.<<<<<<<
I know what you're talking about! Gary Oldman WOULD NOT WORK as Sirius
Black. Maybe as Peter Pettigrew...though I always picture PP as a short,
dumpy sort of man..err rat! :o) As far as Voldemort goes, I always thought
Christopher Walken with a dubbed voice...maybe that guy who did it in the
first movie.
For Lupin, Ralph Fiennes would be PERFECT!
-Susan
_________________________________________________________________
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From editor at texas.net Sun Jan 5 03:15:40 2003
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Geist)
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 21:15:40 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] COS Puppet Theatre and some Behind-the-Scenes COS pics
References: <20030103085740.27958.qmail@web40301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c2b468$bbb9a720$0904a6d8@texas.net>
Lilac posted, eons ago, and I just got to look at it (sorry):
> Jerry the Frog Production's newest release...
>
> Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets Puppet Theatre
>
> or "Should Have Used Duct Tape"
>
> http://www.jerrythefrogproductions.com/ChamberOfSecrets.html
>
> best lines (imo)...
Best line of all:
Ron: I think the irony is blocking the tunnel.
~Amanda
From divaclv at aol.com Sun Jan 5 05:15:44 2003
From: divaclv at aol.com (c_voth312 )
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 05:15:44 -0000
Subject: COS Puppet Theatre and some Behind-the-Scenes COS pics
In-Reply-To: <20030103085740.27958.qmail@web40301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Lilac wrote:
> Oh, and Dumbledore has more in common with Nearly Headless Nick
than we thought (wink wink, nudge nudge)...
>
> Dumbledore (in re: to Fawkes burning): Don't worry...he's not
dead, he's just pinin'. He's got lovely plumage.
A bit of a running gag (reference?) in that:
"That's a DEAD CAT!"
"She's not dead, she's resting!"
Or something like that :-)
~Christi
From jmmears at comcast.net Sun Jan 5 19:12:01 2003
From: jmmears at comcast.net (serenadust )
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 19:12:01 -0000
Subject: COS Puppet Theatre and some Behind-the-Scenes COS pics
In-Reply-To: <20030103085740.27958.qmail@web40301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Lilac wrote:
>
> Jerry the Frog Production's newest release...
>
> Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets Puppet Theatre
>
> or "Should Have Used Duct Tape"
>
> http://www.jerrythefrogproductions.com/ChamberOfSecrets.html
>
Really, really funny; thanks Lilac! BTW, am I the only person who
doesn't know what the word "bish" means? Any enlightenment would be
appreciated.
Jo Serenadust, feeling old & unhip
From heidit at netbox.com Sun Jan 5 19:17:16 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 15:17:16 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: COS Puppet Theatre and some Behind-the-Scenes COS pics
Message-ID:
Bish is short for bishuonen, which is a Japanese term for, iirc, "cute boy." It's used in anime circles a lot and through artists who do anime style drawings of Harry Potter characters, it's moved into the hp fandom, although not incredibly widespread.
-----Original Message-----
From: "serenadust "
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 19:12:01
To:HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: COS Puppet Theatre and some Behind-the-Scenes COS pics
Real-To: "serenadust "
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Lilac wrote:
>
> Jerry the Frog Production's newest release...
>
> Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets Puppet Theatre
>
> or "Should Have Used Duct Tape"
>
> http://www.jerrythefrogproductions.com/ChamberOfSecrets.html
>
Really, really funny; thanks Lilac! BTW, am I the only person who
doesn't know what the word "bish" means? Any enlightenment would be
appreciated.
Jo Serenadust, feeling old & unhip
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From jmchik246 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 5 21:41:34 2003
From: jmchik246 at yahoo.com (Kate )
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 21:41:34 -0000
Subject: PoA Casting Idea
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Susan XG" wrote:
>
> >>>>>>Has anyone besides me seen the "news item" online that Gary
Oldman
> has been cast for *the next 2* HP films, meaning PoA and GoF?? To
me
> that means he's been cast as either Sirius or Peter. I wish I could
> find the link to where I saw that.<<<<<<<
>
> I know what you're talking about! Gary Oldman WOULD NOT WORK as
Sirius
> Black. Maybe as Peter Pettigrew...though I always picture PP as a
short,
> dumpy sort of man..err rat! >
> -Susan
OoOoOo.....Gary Oldman would be perfect for Pettigrew! He's such a
wonderful character actor that I really thing he could pull off
playing a man that had been a rat for 12 years. The man can
completely tranform himself in any role. I didnt even really know
what the real Gary Oldman looked like until recently, because
everything I had seen him in, he looked very different.
I'm at such a loss for who would play Sirius. I think I'm going to
let the people at Warner Bro.'s do thier job and I'll just sit back
and wait to see what happens. Lets pray they don't screw up TOO
badly.
~Kate, who will be very, VERY unhappy if they do a bad job casting
Lupin.
From jmmears at comcast.net Sun Jan 5 22:17:55 2003
From: jmmears at comcast.net (serenadust )
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 22:17:55 -0000
Subject: COS Puppet Theatre and some Behind-the-Scenes COS pics
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Heidi Tandy"
wrote:
> Bish is short for bishuonen, which is a Japanese term for,
iirc, "cute boy." It's used in anime circles a lot and through
artists who do anime style drawings of Harry Potter characters, it's
moved into the hp fandom, although not incredibly widespread.
Thanks, Heidi. I'm glad to hear the term's not incredibly
widespread rendering me *not* totally clueless. I'm constantly
amazed at the width and breadth of the hp fandom, as well as how
steadily it's growth continues in spite of the absence of new canon.
Jo S., feeling enlightened and educated
From heidit at netbox.com Sun Jan 5 22:41:09 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (heiditandy)
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 17:41:09 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: COS Puppet Theatre and some Behind-the-Scenes COS pics
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <01dc01c2b50b$8b928be0$0301a8c0@Frodo>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: serenadust [mailto:jmmears at comcast.net]
> I'm constantly
> amazed at the width and breadth of the hp fandom, as well as how
> steadily it's growth continues in spite of the absence of new canon.
>
P'shaw, Jo! :) This is the movie list! We just had new canon 6 weeks ago
- and we'll have more when the first stills from PoA start showing up
online in a few months.
Actually, to be honest, in a clinical way, we the fans of the books did
have new canon less than two years ago, in the form of the two
schoolbooks, which newcomers to the Harry Potter books often don't even
know about until they delve into discussion lists like HpfGU or the
practise of writing fanfic, which (if you want to make it as
canon-accurate as possible) requires close knowledge of things like
Quidditch fouls or the precise traits of certain animals.
Since this is the movie list, though, let me make this post fully on
topic by asking a question - those of you who came to the HP series and
the fandom through the books - do you consider the films to be
canonical, and if so, why?
Heidi, asking questions on HP lists since 2000
From risako at nexusanime.com Sun Jan 5 23:18:18 2003
From: risako at nexusanime.com (Melissa McCarthy)
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 19:18:18 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: COS Puppet Theatre and some Behind-the-Scenes COS pics
References: <01dc01c2b50b$8b928be0$0301a8c0@Frodo>
Message-ID: <01c201c2b510$bbe75780$63a694d1@vaio>
> Since this is the movie list, though, let me make this post fully on
> topic by asking a question - those of you who came to the HP series and
> the fandom through the books - do you consider the films to be
> canonical, and if so, why?
I consider the films to be their own canon and the books to be a completely
separate canon. I'm not overly fond of the alternate-universes theory, but
in this case, it's the only way I can enjoy both without having my head
explode trying to reconcile the two. This also eliminates the "gosh, I
would never have cast that actor for that character" difficulty, because in
a way it's not the same character at all. I don't have any logical
explanation for this theory; basically I choose to believe it because it
makes me happy ^^
Melissa
From Ali at zymurgy.org Sun Jan 5 23:21:08 2003
From: Ali at zymurgy.org (Ali )
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 23:21:08 -0000
Subject: films as canon was
In-Reply-To: <01dc01c2b50b$8b928be0$0301a8c0@Frodo>
Message-ID:
Heidi asked:-
Since this is the movie list, though, let me make this post fully on
topic by asking a question - those of you who came to the HP series
and the fandom through the books - do you consider the films to be
canonical, and if so, why?
In general, I would have to say, that no, the films are not
canonical. For me, they are somebody elses representation of canon,
albeit an informed person. There are slightly grey areas though.
The "extra scene" in PS/SS was written by JKR especially for the
film. This is sufficient for me to think that Voldemort (or one
person) went to the Potter's House, by himself, at night. In fact
though, what we actually see is very limited so it could be even here
that only part of the events that night are being shown giving us a
false understanding.
I do understand that Robbie Coltrane and Richard Harris were given an
insight into their characters, but to take this into account when
looking at their portrayals could be dangerous. Supposing they
misinterpreted? Hagrid's pause over the Flesh-eating slug repellent
is perhaps a scenario where much could be read into his somewhat
shifty appearance which I for one did not get when reading the book.
Is this because the film makers are trying to show Hagrid in a
different light, or was he just having difficulty trying to recall
what he was doing?
Whilst the directors and producers may well have extra information,
they also use their own "artistic licence" - I cannot think what that
syrupy scene at the end of CoS means for example. Perhaps they are
trying to foreshadow the end of Hagrid, or show us the developing
relationship between Ron and Hermione, but the whole scene seems at
odds with the scene I thought I had read in the book.
Another problem with viewing the films as canon is when they
contradict the books. The book Hermione does not say, and presumably
would not say "Voldemort", but the film one does and provides us with
Dumbledore's explanation. That to me is a canonical error of which
there are several, and is more than canon explanation or artistic
licence, it's actually character development.
In short, I believe that the films are a (usually) fairly faithful
interpretation of canon, but can be no more without JKR writing the
screenplay and directing the actors.
Ali
From thalia at aokp.org Mon Jan 6 00:14:19 2003
From: thalia at aokp.org (chanteuse thalia chaunacy)
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 16:14:19 -0800
Subject: a new side (maybe) of ye old topic of canon
In-Reply-To: <01dc01c2b50b$8b928be0$0301a8c0@Frodo>
References: <01dc01c2b50b$8b928be0$0301a8c0@Frodo>
Message-ID:
depends on whether one worships canon or simply enjoys it. i enjoy the
movies as much as the books, and am not as deeply involved as some here
(that was diplomatic of me, eh?) in absolutism of canon. so. yes, to me
the movies are canon. but to others, such is blasphemy. guess it also
makes a difference that i am a highly visual learner--events from the
movies stick out far more starkly in my mind than ones from the book.
make any sense?
thalia 'attempting to step gingerly around sensitive toes' chaunacy
"Ah, music. A magic beyond all we do here!" -Albus Dumbledore
Heidi oh-so-patiently wrote: "Since this is the movie list, though, let
me make this post fully on-topic by asking a question - those of you who
came to the HP series and the fandom through the books - do you consider
the films to be canonical, and if so, why?"
From sarah at mcfarland.co.uk Mon Jan 6 01:05:24 2003
From: sarah at mcfarland.co.uk (S)
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 01:05:24 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: COS Puppet Theatre and some
Behind-the-Scenes COS pics
In-Reply-To: <01c201c2b510$bbe75780$63a694d1@vaio>
References: <01dc01c2b50b$8b928be0$0301a8c0@Frodo>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030106010406.02f5ffc0@pop.ntlworld.com>
> > Since this is the movie list, though, let me make this post fully on
> > topic by asking a question - those of you who came to the HP series and
> > the fandom through the books - do you consider the films to be
> > canonical, and if so, why?
>
>I consider the films to be their own canon and the books to be a completely
>separate canon. I'm not overly fond of the alternate-universes theory, but
>in this case, it's the only way I can enjoy both without having my head
>explode trying to reconcile the two. This also eliminates the "gosh, I
>would never have cast that actor for that character" difficulty, because in
>a way it's not the same character at all. I don't have any logical
>explanation for this theory; basically I choose to believe it because it
>makes me happy ^^
I look at it like this.
Somewhere "out there" Harry Potter is real - call it an alternative
universe or whatever you like. The books and movies are both very close
representations of the "real" HP, but neither of them is necessarily
exactly spot on.
~Say
From rvotaw at i-55.com Mon Jan 6 03:01:29 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:01:29 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: COS Puppet Theatre/ films as canon
References: <200301051929.h05JTkq11831@mx.i-55.com>
Message-ID: <00ec01c2b52f$e98d09e0$739ecdd1@RVotaw>
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Lilac wrote:
> Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets Puppet Theatre
>
> or "Should Have Used Duct Tape"
>
> http://www.jerrythefrogproductions.com/ChamberOfSecrets.html
This was hilarious. Completely hilarious. My favorite quote:
Harry: It's okay Fawkes, I'm going to a better place...
Fawkes: I'm HEALING you, idiot.
Ali writes:
> In general, I would have to say, that no, the films are not
> canonical. For me, they are somebody elses representation of canon,
> albeit an informed person. There are slightly grey areas though.
> The "extra scene" in PS/SS was written by JKR especially for the
> film. This is sufficient for me to think that Voldemort (or one
> person) went to the Potter's House, by himself, at night. In fact
> though, what we actually see is very limited so it could be even here
> that only part of the events that night are being shown giving us a
> false understanding.
And we have a limited view of what happens. Once Voldemort's in the house, we only see Lily and Harry. And some green light. There could easily have been a DE (or two or more) following at a distance behind Voldemort as a sort of, I don't know, guard? Just in case something went wrong? Or to watch for muggles? Or good wizards and witches?
That said, I do think that the film is a rather lose canon. I think anything that happens in the film that is not true to the books is something that won't really matter in the scope of things. Like whether James played seeker or chaser. That sort of thing. Steve Kloves mentioned something in the press conferences that he had wanted to do something in SS/PS and JKR told him nope, can't do that. Later on you'll find it can't be that way. Something like that. I think she keeps a close enough watch on it to prevent them totally getting off track at least.
Richelle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From jmmears at comcast.net Mon Jan 6 04:26:18 2003
From: jmmears at comcast.net (serenadust )
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 04:26:18 -0000
Subject: Movies as canon? (was CoS Puppet Theater)
In-Reply-To: <01dc01c2b50b$8b928be0$0301a8c0@Frodo>
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "heiditandy" wrote:
> P'shaw, Jo! :) This is the movie list! We just had new canon 6
weeks ago
> - and we'll have more when the first stills from PoA start showing
up
> online in a few months.
Has it *only* been six weeks? Time sure flies when you're having
fun! (I sure hope you're right about PoA stills; already I can't
wait.)
Heidi again:
> Actually, to be honest, in a clinical way, we the fans of the
books did
> have new canon less than two years ago, in the form of the two
> schoolbooks, which newcomers to the Harry Potter books often don't
even
> know about until they delve into discussion lists like HpfGU or the
> practise of writing fanfic, which (if you want to make it as
> canon-accurate as possible) requires close knowledge of things like
> Quidditch fouls or the precise traits of certain animals.
>
> Since this is the movie list, though, let me make this post fully
on
> topic by asking a question - those of you who came to the HP
series and
> the fandom through the books - do you consider the films to be
> canonical, and if so, why?
That's an interesting question. My first thought was that there are
two separate canons: movie and book, but that's probably not really
accurate either. While there is, of course, a great deal of overlap
between the books and movies, there are instances where (As Ali
pointed out in her post which makes most of the points I wanted to
make ) there are direct contradictions between the two. In the
part where we see the plaque with James listed as Seeker, the first
film even contradicts a statement JKR herself made.
Personally, I consider statements made directly by JKR to be
*almost* as canonical as the books, although there is certainly a
range of differing opinions on that point. However, I don't really
think she was as closely involved in the first movie as we were led
to believe, and was even less involved in the CoS movie. There are
just too many different layers of interpretation between the books
and the movies for me to consider them as canon. In addition, since
there will be different directors, actors, and possibly (I hope)
screenwriters as the entire series of films are made, I don't even
think we can expect the movies to be consistent with one another.
This will make it very difficult for there to really be such a thing
as "movie canon" as a separate entity apart from "book canon".
All that aside, I still enjoy the movies for the most part and can
set aside the discrepancies, but I still try hard to remember the
differences, if for no other reason to avoid making embarrassing
movie/book mistakes on the main list .
I wonder if this makes as much difference to people who came to know
Harry Potter through the movies first, before reading any of the
books?
Jo Serenadust, in a relative posting frenzy
From holymotherofgod at hotmail.com Mon Jan 6 05:56:38 2003
From: holymotherofgod at hotmail.com (skyw1ngs )
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 05:56:38 -0000
Subject: Out-of-character moments (was Misc. on CoS)
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Amy Z "
wrote:
It was a small matter, but one that
> irked. I think they could've accomplished what they needed to
with a
> zoom/cut to a cuff that was pushed up enough to show that he was,
in
> fact, barefoot. I.e., we need to see it; Lucius needs to see it;
> Harry doesn't need to show it off.
I totally agree with this and many of your other comments. And
although I too immensely enjoyed the film, there were many things
about it that seemed to be there just for the laughs, this being one
of them.
It's been out in Australia for about 5 weeks now, my bro tells me,
and when we went to see it a few days ago, there was still a queue
to see it. Granted, the theatre was not nearly as full as in the
opening day, but it was comfortably full, and mostly full of grown
ups who laughed in all those right places.
Even if I do cringe a little at all those for-the-laughs scenes, I
still somewhat appreciate them because not-so-obsessed watchers of
the movie seem to enjoy them. I can't say why the general people's
opinion of the movie is important to me, but it is.
> DOBBY's little folding of the arms and cute "harumpf" nod at the
end
> also seemed anachronistic to me, as though I was in the vaguely
> medieval world of Hogwarts and Roger Rabbit suddenly came bounding
> down the hall. This is hard to explain, because part of the humor
of
> the books is the anachronistic tensions among quills and parchment
> and flying cars and MegaMutilation III; all I can say is that IMO,
> JKR always gets the balance right, whereas this little bit seemed
> Disneyish in a way that yanked me unceremoniously into 2002.
Absolutely right. Another moment that was there to please the
general audience with a clich?. Even if I think HP is full of
clich?s, and practically based on them (come on, wizards in pointy
hats and dusty robes, wands and cauldrons?), there is always that
little twist of originality in it that makes it seem new.
I think JKR has blasted that age old stigma of only witches ride
broomsticks out of the air. A few years ago, boys wouldn't think to
ride a broomstick, but now, everyone does!
> HERMIONE. But the
> welling-up tears were bad, bad, bad. Hermione, with rare
exceptions,
> is the kind of person who reacts to having her feelings hurt by
> getting angry, not by going all quiet and teary. The dynamic with
> Draco through the books is definitely one where she's more ticked-
off
> than wounded by his bigotry.
> They gave her one of Dumbledore's lines too ("Fear of the
name
> increases fear of the thing itself"), which stood out mostly
because
> I thought it was badly acted,
I just didn't like her saying it because it was one of Dumbledore's
wise lines. The tears I didn't mind so much, really, since she gets
tearful in the future with the stress and all. I mean, she _is_ just
a kid and it is hard to put up with verbal and emotional abuse.
> RON. .
> They blew a great opportunity to lay the groundwork for Ron's
> insecurity about his poverty and Harry's wealth, too. It's right
> there in the Burrow, and it's very simple: instead of having him
> say, "It's not much, but it's home," have him say "It's not
much..."
> and trail off and look at Harry. Or have him say the things he
says
> in the book, if they can spare the seconds. But the point is,
he's
> nervous about whether his friend will like his home and thrilled
when
> said friend does. Why the hell did they turn it around?
This is a point I really wanted them to get as well. Ron's
insecurity about his family's poverty is such a constant factor in
the books it only makes sense to at least continue referring to it.
In PS/SS they had the "No thanks. I'm all set." in the train scene
but none in CoS. Sure, the Lucius comments and "We'll manage" in the
Burrow were referring to their financial status, but not to Ron's
insecurities. I really really wanted to have him be nervous about
what Harry might think about the Burrow. People should've brushed up
on their HP before each scene, methinks.
>
> DUMBLEDORE, or whoever was responsible for the Hagrid lovefest.
That
> was awful. But I could go on in curmudgeonly style for paragraphs
> about filmmakers who think the best possible ending to a movie is
> some kind of big graduation scene where we all get to clap, like
Star
> Wars or Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country (they just saved
the
> universe! Let's *clap,* everyone!). It's as if they can't think
of
> anything more richly emotional than a bunch of people applauding--
> whereas, if they wanted to end on a We Love Hagrid note, IMO
they'd
> have done much better to cut immediately after Harry's hugging
him.
> Anyway, the whole thing is not only dumb, it's OOC. Harry
wouldn't
> declare his feelings in front of the whole school if he could
mutter
> them privately to the person concerned; Dumbledore wouldn't listen
in
> and then start clapping. Just ugh.
Yes. That was completely and utterly cringe-worthy. I suppose the
only good thing was that it was just applause and didn't start as a
SLOW clap. OMG.
Also, as far as we know, only the 3 kids care about Hagrid! Neville
didn't even say hi to him as he passed. Now, Hagrid's "Hi Neville"
might've been added post which may be why Neville didn't answer, but
then maybe it shouldn't have been added in the first place. Perhaps
a few references to how important Hagrid is to the students wouldn't
have gone astray.
Speaking of which, Hagrid's appreciation for being taken out of
Azkaban would also have meant more if we were told about the gaol
and the Dementors.
> The whole thing is making me worry about PoA, because PS/SS had
fewer
> OOC moments than CoS,
Don't worry. Maybe the new director will pick up on those moments. I
had always considered HP a grown up kids movie; not talking down to
kids, being a drama rather than a comedy... Hopefully it will live
up to that expectation and be a serious film as it should be. I'm
not saying not funny, just made seriously. There is too much thought
and talk about HP being a kid's book or movie. I really cannot stand
it when I hear that, or when 14 year olds say that they're
embarrassed about liking HP because they're afraid that they're too
old. Please!
All I want is faithfulness to the books, the abolishment of the
assumption that the audience is 5 years old or too dumb to read
subtext, and not resorting to cheap gags in order to secure some
audience satisfaction. As long as it is made seriously, it will be a
great movie and definitely satisfactory!
skywings.
From bboy_mn at yahoo.com Mon Jan 6 08:47:29 2003
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve )
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 08:47:29 -0000
Subject: Film as Canon.
In-Reply-To: <01dc01c2b50b$8b928be0$0301a8c0@Frodo>
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "heiditandy" wrote:
>
> ...edited...
>
> Since this is the movie list, though, let me make this post fully on
> topic by asking a question - those of you who came to the HP series
> and the fandom through the books - do you consider the films to be
> canonical, and if so, why?
>
> Heidi, asking questions on HP lists since 2000
bboy_mn:
Hummmm..... thought provoking question.
I think the difference between the two (book vs film) is like the
difference between and example and an illustration. Or perhaps, I can
create a better analogy by saying it is like the difference between a
photograph and an illustration.
A photograph is a real life representation of a person. An
illustration is an artistic representation of a person. It's possible
for the artistic representation of the person to by so fabulously
artistic as to be better than the person themselves, and while it may
be fantasically better, it is not a true life representation.
The book is the real thing, it is the true to life representation. The
movie is the artistic representation; the illustration, and as
fabulous as it may be on it's own merit, it is still not the real
thing. It's someone else's impression of the real thing.
There... I think that should serve as an excellent illustration of my
point... or wait... was that an example of my point. Hummm... now I'm
confused.
Just some thoughts.
bboy_mn
From itzregina at hanson.net Mon Jan 6 15:57:34 2003
From: itzregina at hanson.net (Regina )
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 15:57:34 -0000
Subject: Sean Biggerstaff not signed for COS?
Message-ID:
In an article linked at TLC
http://www.seanbiggerstaff.com/shots/ignite2.jpg
Sean is quoted as saying he has not been signed to COS yet. Surely
he is needed for some quidditch scenes. OK, is isn't "needed" but I
sure would miss him.
Gina
From heidit at netbox.com Mon Jan 6 16:02:03 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (heiditandy)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:02:03 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Sean Biggerstaff not signed for COS?
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <02af01c2b59c$f5518040$0301a8c0@Frodo>
That interview was published over 8 weeks ago, so it shouldn't be
considered a statement of current events.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Regina [mailto:itzregina at hanson.net]
> Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 10:58 AM
> To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Sean Biggerstaff not signed for COS?
>
>
> Real-To: "Regina "
>
> In an article linked at TLC
>
> http://www.seanbiggerstaff.com/shots/ignite2.jpg
>
> Sean is quoted as saying he has not been signed to COS yet. Surely
> he is needed for some quidditch scenes. OK, is isn't "needed" but I
> sure would miss him.
>
> Gina
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> WARNING! This group contains spoilers!
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's
> Admin Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20File
s/
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From bkdelong at pobox.com Mon Jan 6 16:00:12 2003
From: bkdelong at pobox.com (B.K. DeLong)
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 11:00:12 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Sean Biggerstaff not signed for COS?
In-Reply-To: <02af01c2b59c$f5518040$0301a8c0@Frodo>
References:
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030106105944.0263c1e0@ceci.mit.edu>
At 11:02 AM 1/6/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>That interview was published over 8 weeks ago, so it shouldn't be
>considered a statement of current events.
Not to mention the fact that he was talking about PoA and not CoS... ;)
--
B.K. DeLong
bkdelong at pobox.com
617.877.3271
http://ocw.mit.edu Work.
http://www.brain-stream.com Play.
http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org Potter.
http://www.attrition.org Security.
From tinajgr at yahoo.com Mon Jan 6 16:18:48 2003
From: tinajgr at yahoo.com (Tina)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 08:18:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: COS Puppet Theatre/ films as canon
In-Reply-To: <1041861782.1105.90621.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030106161848.1095.qmail@web12903.mail.yahoo.com>
HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com wrote:
Message: 10
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:01:29 -0600
From: "Richelle Votaw"
Subject: Re: Re: COS Puppet Theatre/ films as canon
Ali writes:
> In general, I would have to say, that no, the films are not
> canonical. For me, they are somebody elses representation of canon,
> albeit an informed person. There are slightly grey areas though.
> The "extra scene" in PS/SS was written by JKR especially for the
> film. This is sufficient for me to think that Voldemort (or one
> person) went to the Potter's House, by himself, at night. In fact
> though, what we actually see is very limited so it could be even here
> that only part of the events that night are being shown giving us a
> false understanding.
And we have a limited view of what happens. Once Voldemort's in the house, we only see Lily and Harry. And some green light. There could easily have been a DE (or two or more) following at a distance behind Voldemort as a sort of, I don't know, guard? Just in case something went wrong? Or to watch for muggles? Or good wizards and witches?
Richelle
I have a two (sorta) questions about that scene: 1) Is it completely accurate to what JKR wrote originally, then scrapped? I mean, was LV really alone, or did he have his followers with him but placed somewhere else? 2) I heard that JKR was "ADAMANT" with not having James showing up in that scene also... meaning she didn't want him to be there or seen at all... can anyone speculate why? I'm so curious as to why we didn't get to see James fight LV to his death... Thanks in advance. :)
~Tina
I Love to Read, Write, and Listen to Silent Music...
http://geocities.com/tinajgr
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From deidre at panix.com Mon Jan 6 16:28:36 2003
From: deidre at panix.com (Deidre)
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 11:28:36 -0500
Subject: Movies as canon?
In-Reply-To: <1041861782.1105.90621.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20030106105604.04a8bec0@pop.panix.com>
At 02:03 PM 1/6/03 +0000, Jo Serenadust wrote:
>I wonder if this makes as much difference to people who came to know
>Harry Potter through the movies first, before reading any of the
>books?
I like the idea that has been set forth, that of the movies being an
alternative canon. That being said, I am one who came to the Potterverse
through the first movie. As a life-long fantasy fan I should have read the
novels long ago, but hadn't, mostly because the over-hyping, esp. from
well-meaning friends, had about placed me in a corner on the whole issue,
esp. when they would claim that JKR was a better writer than Tolkien.
(Please note that I am a rabid Tolkien fan and have been most of my life.
) After reading both Tolkien and JKR, I found that comparing their books
is like comparing apples and oranges--they have completely different styles
(Tolkien is very formal, and JKR rather contemporary), and vastly different
subject matters. (He was trying to create a new mythology for Britain, and
she has concentrated on a few kids in a boarding school--very different
points of view.)
Having seen SS as a movie, I rushed out and got the book. Upon reading it,
I realized, that as lovely as the first movie is, it's mostly a highlights
of the novel. I still think, however, that it is a more faithful adaptation
of the book than the movie CoS was of that novel.
I do see the books as canon, and was quite steamed up about all the things
I thought were wrong with the movie version of CoS. I do see the
movies and books as very separate things, and can't imagine how the next
two books are going to be filmed in any fashion that I, or most other book
fans, consider proper. I've read all four novels several times this past
year, and see vast differences between them and the two movies that have
been made so far. Had CoS been a better movie (IMHO, and YMMV), I could
have forgiven the changes. I have probably ranted about those already.
However, if I can forgive Peter Jackson for his changes to LOTR in his
movies, then I ought to be able to do the same for any directors of HP
movies, or so one would think. I think what must be kept in mind is
that these films are *based* upon the books, and aren't going to ever be
straight adaptions of the novels. Pity about that, but that's how things
often work when translating from one media to another. I suppose that is
why it is so hard for me to get over the changes in the HP movies, since
JKR already did such a good job in her books of *showing* us the whole
story, up to this point. Tolkien did more telling of his story, and in
making a visual adaptation of a told story, as opposed to a shown story,
more changes have to be made, in order to have one of the basic concepts of
drama: that the characters grow and change throughout the story--they are
not static. In the end, this is what steams me about the HP movies, we
already had the showing, and it just needed to be translated to the screen
better than it has been, esp in CoS. *shrugs* Oh well, I could go on this
point all day.
Deidre, who likes canon as well
From urbana at charter.net Mon Jan 6 17:44:05 2003
From: urbana at charter.net (Anne )
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 17:44:05 -0000
Subject: Movies as canon?
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20030106105604.04a8bec0@pop.panix.com>
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Deidre wrote:
>I think what must be kept in mind is
> that these films are *based* upon the books, and aren't going to
ever be
> straight adaptions of the novels. Pity about that, but that's how
things
> often work when translating from one media to another. I suppose
that is
> why it is so hard for me to get over the changes in the HP movies,
since
> JKR already did such a good job in her books of *showing* us the
whole
> story, up to this point....In the end, this is what steams me about
the HP movies, we
> already had the showing, and it just needed to be translated to the
screen
> better than it has been, esp in CoS. *shrugs* Oh well, I could go
on this
> point all day.
>
> Deidre, who likes canon as well
This is something I noticed right away - JRK's writing style is
very "cinematic". She has a great way of describing things so that
you can visualize them happening on screen. I read both SS and CoS
before seeing TMTMNBN(1) and in both cases I really could imagine how
the scenes played out. Thus I've been a tad disappointed with (though
not aghast at) at both HP movies. I hope Alfonso Cuaron is able to
capture more of that cinematic quality in PoA than Chris Columbus did
in SS and CoS. Or maybe I just hope Cuaron will make fewer seemingly
random changes than Columbus did. Maybe I should hope that Steve
Kloves writes a better screenplay...
Anne U
(let's hope the third time *is* the charm for HP movies)
From ruhgozler at yahoo.com Tue Jan 7 00:11:30 2003
From: ruhgozler at yahoo.com (Linda Williams )
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 00:11:30 -0000
Subject: Ian Brown casting rumor
Message-ID:
>From TLC via "Ain't It Cool News":
I got in a rumor over the weekend that Ian Brown (of the Stone Roses)
has signed on for a small part in the film [TLC: Cedric? He seems
older than fifteen, but you never know. He looks like a Sirius, but
that's not a small part, even if he only comes in at the end. Rumour
rumour rumour.]
My guess is that he would get the part of the executioner. What do
you think?
From dkewpie at pacbell.net Tue Jan 7 01:30:24 2003
From: dkewpie at pacbell.net (Kewpie )
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 01:30:24 -0000
Subject: Ian Brown casting rumor
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Linda Williams "
wrote:
> From TLC via "Ain't It Cool News":
>
> I got in a rumor over the weekend that Ian Brown (of the Stone
Roses)
> has signed on for a small part in the film [TLC: Cedric? He seems
> older than fifteen, but you never know. He looks like a Sirius, but
> that's not a small part, even if he only comes in at the end. Rumour
> rumour rumour.]
>
> My guess is that he would get the part of the executioner. What do
> you think?
How about the Knight bus?! No one ever speculate about them?! (at
least two small new roles there)
Joan
From jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com Tue Jan 7 03:01:16 2003
From: jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com (Haggridd )
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 03:01:16 -0000
Subject: COS Puppet Theatre and some Behind-the-Scenes COS pics
In-Reply-To: <01dc01c2b50b$8b928be0$0301a8c0@Frodo>
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "heiditandy" wrote:
>
> Since this is the movie list, though, let me make this post fully on
> topic by asking a question - those of you who came to the HP series
and
> the fandom through the books - do you consider the films to be
> canonical, and if so, why?
>
Heidi, I have posted before my deeply felt opinion that the movies,
however entertaining, are not and cannot be canon. They are
derivative works, collaborative works in which JKR has not had
complete creative control. True, Columbus has tried to be faithful
to the books-- though what that last scene in CoS was supposed to be
is beyond me-- but all the creative choices that are absolutely
necessary in order to make a three hour movies out of books that
would film for far longer if filmed page by page and word for word,
perforce produce different works from the books upon which they are
based.
Even so, Columbus has shifted words from one character in the book to
another, which profoundly changes our perceptions of each character
and their respective personalities, and have had plot implications as
well. The net effect of these dialogue changes have been to "simpify"
the personalties into two-dimensional "types", which are not at all
the rich complexities of character to be found in the book.
On the simple level of facts: what is located where? do the Malfoys
sell dark magical objects in Knockturn Alley or not? was the snake
from Brazil or from Burma? was it an Irish fellow or a Geek who gave
Hagrid his "pet"? which is true and which is not? If the movies are
canon, then we have ourselves a heresy forming, with two antithetical
truths. I see no practical alternative to havcing the books prevail
in case of conflict, and if this be the case, the books are canon and
the movies not. Q.E.D.
Hagridd
"Beta Readers do it to perfection."
From rvotaw at i-55.com Tue Jan 7 03:26:03 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:26:03 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] films as canon
References: <20030106161848.1095.qmail@web12903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <01bd01c2b5fc$828ab670$d8a1cdd1@RVotaw>
Tina writes:
> I have a two (sorta) questions about that scene: 1) Is it completely accurate
> to what JKR wrote originally, then scrapped? I mean, was LV really alone, or
> did he have his followers with him but placed somewhere else?
I don't know. I mean, we don't have anything to compare the movie footage with. And we don't really see that far behind Voldemort. At all. A little when he's walking up to the house, once he's in there someone could be standing right beside him and we'd never know it.
> 2) I heard that JKR was "ADAMANT" with not having James showing up in that
> scene also... meaning she didn't want him to be there or seen at all... can
> anyone speculate why? I'm so curious as to why we didn't get to see James fight
> LV to his death... Thanks in advance. :)
At the risk of getting close to book discussion (but I guess I'm safe with movie discussion above), I, again, don't know. But my wildest speculation is that Snape was standing with or near Voldemort and James when he died. Thus JKR didn't want us to see that bit of spoiler. Or not. :) One way or another, I am convinced there was a missing spell in the priori incantatum from Voldemort's wand. The bounced AK should have shown up as something. A lightning bolt? A flash of light? But there's nothing between Bertha Jorkins and Lily Potter (in the corrected version, of course). There were screams of pain (cruciatus?) and so on. Okay, I'll stop now.
Deidre writes:
> I like the idea that has been set forth, that of the movies being an
> alternative canon. That being said, I am one who came to the Potterverse
> through the first movie. As a life-long fantasy fan I should have read the
> novels long ago, but hadn't, mostly because the over-hyping, esp. from
Me too. Although I was half way through Sorcerer's Stone when I saw the movie. It had taken me maybe two weeks to get half way. Then after the movie it took me two weeks to read all the rest of the books!
Anyway, that aside, I have a friend at school who's in her late forties, who couldn't stand hearing my friend and I rave over the HP books without finding out what it was all about. She read them all, I gave her the schoolbooks for Christmas. Loved them. Over the holidays she saw the first movie for the first time. She came to me today and told me she'd watched it. "Then I watched it again. And again." She loved it, loved the kids, etc. I was actually surprised at such a positive view of it from someone who started with the books. All of them, not just the first half of the first book like me. :)
Richelle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From lupinesque at yahoo.com Tue Jan 7 12:16:00 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z )
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 12:16:00 -0000
Subject: COS Puppet Theatre and some Behind-the-Scenes COS pics
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
Haggridd wrote:
> Heidi, I have posted before my deeply felt opinion that the movies,
> however entertaining, are not and cannot be canon. They are
> derivative works, collaborative works in which JKR has not had
> complete creative control. True, Columbus has tried to be faithful
> to the books-- though what that last scene in CoS was supposed to
be
> is beyond me
It was for you, Haggs.
Amy
who agrees with you
From mad_about_harrypotter at hotmail.com Tue Jan 7 16:23:01 2003
From: mad_about_harrypotter at hotmail.com (mad_about_harrypotter )
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 16:23:01 -0000
Subject: Cedric Diggory cut from PoA
Message-ID:
Hi guys.
Yes, I'm afraid to say Hufflepuff stud-muffin and original "spare"
boy Cedric Diggory will NOT appear in the forthcoming movie PoA.
How do I know this? Well, a very good friend of mine is an actor, and
his casting agents were liasing with WB to secure an audition for the
role of Cedric. It looked all systems go until about a week ago, when
his casting agency was told that a Cedric would not be required for
PoA, only GoF, when it's made. It was a late cut from the cast list.
I trust my mate, it wouldn't bullsh*t me on this, he knows how
obsessed I am about his slight (very slight) potential role in the HP
films, so I take it as 99% definite there's no Cedric in PoA.
What do you guys think of this? It was only a small part in PoA, but
I think it's important to establish Ced's existence in order to get
the full impact of his death in GoF.
Peace,
C x
From Audra1976 at aol.com Tue Jan 7 18:58:18 2003
From: Audra1976 at aol.com (Audra1976 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:58:18 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Cedric Diggory cut from PoA
Message-ID:
In a message dated 07/01/2003 11:23:59 Eastern Standard Time,
mad_about_harrypotter at hotmail.com writes:
> What do you guys think of this? It was only a small part in PoA, but
> I think it's important to establish Ced's existence in order to get
> the full impact of his death in GoF.
Me:
Look at it this way: it's going to be REALLY difficult to fit PoA into even a
3-1/2-hour movie, and I don't know how long the movie is going be, but they
are going to have to cut a lot. It IS important to establish Cedric's
character to get the full impact of his death in GoF, but remember, GoF is
going to be TWO movies. His character will be established in the first
movie, and he will die in the second.
Audra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From dfrankiswork at netscape.net Tue Jan 7 19:02:46 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David )
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 19:02:46 -0000
Subject: Movie as canon
In-Reply-To: <01dc01c2b50b$8b928be0$0301a8c0@Frodo>
Message-ID:
Heidi asked:
> Since this is the movie list, though, let me make this post fully
on
> topic by asking a question - those of you who came to the HP
series and
> the fandom through the books - do you consider the films to be
> canonical, and if so, why?
I think this question is deeper than some of the answers have
allowed.
If you take it literally, then of course only the books are JKR's
canon: the films are part of Columbus's (and Cuaron's) canon. Or
you can define canon slightly differently and say they are Kloves's
canon. Or you can *define* canon to include the movies. But, to be
honest, I don't think that's the point.
I think there is an issue: in what sense can the Potterverse be
considered to have a coherent existence, other than strictly in
JKR's canon?
I remember there was a very interesting post about eighteen months
ago to the main list raising essentially this question in regard to
fanfic, and drawing comparison with oral traditions pre-printing
such as the Arthurian romances or the Iliad. (And, Heidi, pointing
out the cultural relativism of the notion of copyright). There were
virtually no replies IIRC. I will see if I can dig it out.
I don't know the answer to the question, but I don't think it will
go away, particularly once Book 7 has been published. The desire to
maintain and extend the illusion will spawn variant universes and by
some mysterious process some will be considered more 'canonical'
than others in the fandom.
More later on OT on the notion of reality in the Potterverse
David
From dom-blokey at supanet.com Tue Jan 7 19:17:53 2003
From: dom-blokey at supanet.com (Dom McDermott)
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:17:53 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Cedric Diggory cut from PoA
References:
Message-ID: <004601c2b681$7ae8aaa0$7abf28d5@Blokey>
Sorry, did I miss something?
I didn't realise that GOF was going to be two movies.
Was that not just one of those rumours / suggestions floating around the
web, or has someone in an official capacity actually confirmed that a) they
will be filming it, and b) it will be in two parts...?
Dom
> Look at it this way: it's going to be REALLY difficult to fit PoA into
even a
> 3-1/2-hour movie, and I don't know how long the movie is going be, but
they
> are going to have to cut a lot. It IS important to establish Cedric's
> character to get the full impact of his death in GoF, but remember, GoF is
> going to be TWO movies. His character will be established in the first
> movie, and he will die in the second.
>
> Audra
>
From rvotaw at i-55.com Wed Jan 8 01:03:22 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:03:22 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Cedric Diggory cut from PoA
References:
Message-ID: <00ec01c2b6b1$c3053440$9ea1cdd1@RVotaw>
In a message dated 07/01/2003 11:23:59 Eastern Standard Time,
mad_about_harrypotter at hotmail.com writes:
>> What do you guys think of this? It was only a small part in PoA, but
>> I think it's important to establish Ced's existence in order to get
>> the full impact of his death in GoF.
Audra writes:
>Look at it this way: it's going to be REALLY difficult to fit PoA into even a
>3-1/2-hour movie, and I don't know how long the movie is going be, but they
>are going to have to cut a lot. It IS important to establish Cedric's
>character to get the full impact of his death in GoF, but remember, GoF is
>going to be TWO movies. His character will be established in the first
>movie, and he will die in the second.
The way I see it, if Cedric has been cut, that means the Hufflepuff team as a whole has been cut. Harry's got to fall off the broom in Quidditch, so they must have changed it to have them play Slytherin. The way I see it they've GOT to have two Quidditch games. One for Harry to fall off the broom and Gryffindor to lose. And the other for them to win the Quidditch cup. So I think they'll perhaps combine the fake dementor game and the Quidditch cup game. Have Crabbe and Goyle dress up as dementors and have Harry Expecto Patronus them and catch the Snitch out from under Malfoy at the same time.
David Heyman (or Steve Kloves, can't remember which) said PoA would be the same length as or slightly shorter than CoS. So they've got to cut a lot.
As for GoF being two movies, I believe it was Steve Kloves who said they were looking at it and as the script writing went along would determine whether it would be one or two movies. But the way they were talking sounded like they were leaning toward two. Maybe WB is waiting to see how the two Matrix movies do (May and November).
Richelle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From siskiou at earthlink.net Wed Jan 8 07:07:11 2003
From: siskiou at earthlink.net (Susanne)
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 23:07:11 -0800
Subject: Sirius casting?
Message-ID: <117463830467.20030107230711@earthlink.net>
Hi,
Oldman as Sirius?
Have no idea how accurate Hollywoodreporter is, but I just
came across this:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hollywoodreporter/film/index.jsp
--
Best regards,
Susanne mailto:siskiou at earthlink.net
From sophiamcl at hotmail.com Wed Jan 8 14:59:28 2003
From: sophiamcl at hotmail.com (sophia mclaughlin)
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 14:59:28 +0000
Subject: Quidditch in PoA (was: Sean Biggerstaff not signed...)
Message-ID:
Gina said:
..surely he is needed for some quidditch scenes. OK, it isn't "needed,"
but I sure would miss him.
I'd miss him too. Now did you mean Biggerstaff wasn't needed, or Wood wasn't
needed or quidditch wasn't needed? I first interpreted your post to mean
quidditch wasn't needed. Even if that's not what you meant, I'd like to
comment on it. I've been wondering what Cuaron will make of the set pieces
that are emerging as part and parcel of the Potter movie experience, such as
the quidditch. Of course, it has to be there somewhere in the background,
but can there be a Potter-film without a spectacular quidditch game? (OK,
number four will be, of course, but I mean, if you approach PoA from the
franchise point of view--number three in the series...) And if so, could it
be the next one, considering Cuaron is expected to be a mover and shaker in
Potterland? Or would he not have a say in it? Is it all up to Kloves and the
producers?
As for me, quidditch is terrific, but as the plot thickens and our hero
seems to be growing emotionally more complex, there could be so many other
aspects of Harry's schoolyear worthy of screen time--and I know there are
many of you out there who thought the CoS quidditch-game was a tad long when
the minutes are such a precious commodity for telling a complex story.
Then again, there's Cho. She's got to be there of course, and quidditch is
Harry's and Cho's first encounter, which I'm looking forward to, so let the
games begin, eh? I'd love to get some feedback on these ramblings. What say
you?
Sophia
_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
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From itzregina at hanson.net Wed Jan 8 15:18:25 2003
From: itzregina at hanson.net (Regina )
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:18:25 -0000
Subject: Quidditch in PoA (was: Sean Biggerstaff not signed...)
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "sophia mclaughlin"
wrote:
>
> Gina said:
> ? ? ..surely he is needed for some quidditch scenes. OK,
it isn't "needed,"
> but I sure would miss him.
>
> I'd miss him too. Now did you mean Biggerstaff wasn't needed, or
Wood wasn't
> needed or quidditch wasn't needed? >
Sorry about that. Typo. I meant HE isn't "needed". He barely got
any time in the last movie.
> As for me, quidditch is terrific, but as the plot thickens and our
hero
> seems to be growing emotionally more complex, there could be so
many other
> aspects of Harry's schoolyear worthy of screen time-->
I personally would prefer more time spent on the growing complexity
of Harry's character, but I do enjoy the Quidditch sequences.
Harry's and Cho's first encounter, >
> Sophia
But they wouldn't HAVE to meet on the Quidditch field (pitch). When
he sees her at school someone could just tell Harry she plays Seeker
for Ravenclaw.
Gina
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
From bboy_mn at yahoo.com Wed Jan 8 21:00:16 2003
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve )
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 21:00:16 -0000
Subject: Cedric Diggory cut from PoA
In-Reply-To: <00ec01c2b6b1$c3053440$9ea1cdd1@RVotaw>
Message-ID:
Richelle wrote:
>
> ...big edit...
>
> David Heyman (or Steve Kloves, can't remember which) said PoA would
be the same length as or slightly shorter than CoS. So they've got to
cut a lot.
>
> As for GoF being two movies, I believe it was Steve Kloves who said
they were looking at it and as the script writing went along would
determine whether it would be one or two movies. But the way they
were talking sounded like they were leaning toward two. Maybe WB is
waiting to see how the two Matrix movies do (May and November).
>
> Richelle
bboy_mn:
Regarding the Quidditch part I cut from this post. I think they need
to have Quidditch. It's expected. What's a Harry Potter movie without
Quidditch?
Regarding the length of the HP movies. I still don't understand why
2.7hrs for HP is 'butt numbing' but +3 hrs for Lord of the Rings
doesn't even rate a comment. I think it is a crime to make any of
these movies less than 3 hrs long. That extra 20 minute would allow so
much more plot and character developement. It would also allow a lot
smoother transitions between scenes, and make the movie a lot less
hurried, but still excitint pace.
Chamber of Secrets on the big screen; the truth is, they can't
effectively squeeze any of the first three books into one movie; at
least not when they are shooting for a 2.5 hr target running time. It
would be impossible to make CoS in one movie even if it was stretched
to 3hrs. Given Warner Bro's desire to keep thier movies short, I doubt
they would try to squeeze it into 3.5 hrs. Even 3.5 hours would have a
hard time doing it justice.
It's going to be very interesting to see what a new director can do
with this story. I've already heard rumors that he is challenging the
status quo, and planning to approach the movie differently. I hope the
first thing he does is makes it longer.
Just a few thoughts.
bboy_mn
From purple_801999 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 8 21:42:49 2003
From: purple_801999 at yahoo.com (purple_801999 )
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 21:42:49 -0000
Subject: Cedric Diggory cut from PoA
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Steve "
wrote:
> Richelle wrote:
> > As for GoF being two movies, I believe it was Steve Kloves who
said
> they were looking at it and as the script writing went along would
> determine whether it would be one or two movies. But the way they
> were talking sounded like they were leaning toward two. Maybe WB is
> waiting to see how the two Matrix movies do (May and November).
> >
Sounds like a good plan to me considering the amount of action and
subplots involved. I do not envy Mr. Kloves the task before him.
> bboy_mn wrote:
>
> Regarding the length of the HP movies. I still don't understand why
> 2.7hrs for HP is 'butt numbing' but +3 hrs for Lord of the Rings
> doesn't even rate a comment. I think it is a crime to make any of
> these movies less than 3 hrs long. That extra 20 minute would allow
so
> much more plot and character developement. It would also allow a lot
> smoother transitions between scenes, and make the movie a lot less
> hurried, but still excitint pace.
The Harry Potter movies are directed more towards children than to
adults, unlike Lord of the Rings. An adult can handle a three hour
plus movie, but an adult trying to rangle two or three children who
have to go to the bathroom, asking questions about the movie may not
have the stamina to keep them still and quiet for more than two
hours. And God help you if they lose interest!
As popular as Harry Potter is it is still considered a children's
novel and will be adapted as one. Thank God for DVD extras. I wonder
if the two movie plan would be a good idea for the rest of the book
to movie adaptaions.
Olivia Grey
From deidre at panix.com Thu Jan 9 00:21:18 2003
From: deidre at panix.com (Deidre)
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 19:21:18 -0500
Subject: yet another casting idea
In-Reply-To: <1042035940.247.2540.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20030108191437.04d63e10@pop.panix.com>
Forgive if someone has mentioned this before, but a good friend who is also
quite Buffy-verse obsessed like me suggested that Anthony Stewart Head
might be a good choice for either Sirius or Lupin. I hadn't thought of ASH
myself (at least I don't think so ), and so I offer this as yet another
choice in the Ever-Floating-Casting-Game-Party.
Deidre
From chiflipgrl at aol.com Thu Jan 9 00:39:23 2003
From: chiflipgrl at aol.com (chiflipgrl at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 19:39:23 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] yet another casting idea
Message-ID: <7E8F943D.4DCAC91A.0ACCE7BC@aol.com>
Hola, everyone!
Wouldn't Anthony Stewart Head be a tad bit too old to play Sirius or Lupin? I mean, I myself am a total Giles-lover/appreciator. However, I just envisioned Lupin and Sirius to be in their early to late 40s, at the most. ASH looks very much like a man in his 50s. (No offense meant. It's just for the sake of saying it.)
Besides... Maybe it would be slightly traumatic for us Buffy-Verse inhabitors to see Giles with a wig? ::giggle::
Sorry... I'm being stupid.
Back to lurking!
*~*Janice*~*
- who just envisioned Giles with a hairstyle such as LOTR's Aragorn... ROFL :)
From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com Thu Jan 9 01:40:47 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:40:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Gary Oldman [was] Sirius casting?
In-Reply-To: <117463830467.20030107230711@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20030109014047.34953.qmail@web21103.mail.yahoo.com>
Susanne:
> Oldman as Sirius?
>
> Have no idea how accurate Hollywoodreporter is,
> but I just came across this:
>
> http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/
> hollywoodreporter/film/index.jsp
Note: this site is subscription-based. Access to
"old" articles become subscribers-only very
quickly so go...go now...if you want to read it.
Since the print publication of the above site is
one of the top two trade papers for Hollywood,
it's usually pretty accurate. Not the most
perfect of track records, not the fastest source,
but usually pretty accurate.
Though, the Reporter's primary rival, Variety,
hasn't got this news item on its site the last
time I checked. Of course, "in negotiations" is
NOT confirmation that all parties will sign on
the dotted lines.
So, since we're speaking of Oldman, I've been
meaning to ask this of those who has had
less-than-positive reactions to the idea of
Oldman as Sirius: in forming your opinion on this
matter, have you contemplated Oldman's
performance as Beethoven (no, not the St.
Bernard!) the composer in Immortal Beloved
(1994)? Not that I think Beethoven and Sirius
are one and the same...it's just that Oldman
showed a side of him in that film not seen in all
the other films mentioned so far on this list,
IIRC.
Petra
a
n :)
__________________________________________________
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From divaclv at aol.com Thu Jan 9 04:23:34 2003
From: divaclv at aol.com (c_voth312 )
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 04:23:34 -0000
Subject: yet another casting idea
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20030108191437.04d63e10@pop.panix.com>
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Deidre wrote:
> Forgive if someone has mentioned this before, but a good friend who
is also
> quite Buffy-verse obsessed like me suggested that Anthony
Stewart Head
> might be a good choice for either Sirius or Lupin. I hadn't thought
of ASH
> myself (at least I don't think so ), and so I offer this as yet
another
> choice in the Ever-Floating-Casting-Game-Party.
I "hear" ASH when I read Lupin's dialogue, so the idea definitely
appeals to me. He could definitely pull of the quiet strength and
guilty-secrets part of the character very well.
~Christi
From SusanXG at hotmail.com Thu Jan 9 06:50:00 2003
From: SusanXG at hotmail.com (Susan XG)
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 00:50:00 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] yet another casting idea
Message-ID:
>>>>>>>Wouldn't Anthony Stewart Head be a tad bit too old to play Sirius or
>>>>>>>Lupin?<<<<<<
I couldn't agree more. However, I also envisioned ASH as someone like Barty
Crouch, Sr. Come on, he could be "severe-looking"!
>>>>>Besides... Maybe it would be slightly traumatic for us Buffy-Verse
>>>>>inhabitors to see Giles with a wig? ::giggle::<<<<
You are TOO funny. Well, we did have to suffer through Angel's various wigs.
;o)
Susan :o)
_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8 is here: Try it free* for 2 months
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From SusanXG at hotmail.com Thu Jan 9 07:05:50 2003
From: SusanXG at hotmail.com (Susan XG)
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 01:05:50 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Cedric Diggory cut from PoA
Message-ID:
>>>>>Regarding the Quidditch part I cut from this post. I think they need to
>>>>>have Quidditch. It's expected. What's a Harry Potter movie without
>>>>>Quidditch?<<<<<<
I totally agree. They can't cut Quidditch. Not only because it's a
reoccuring thing in the books, but the games in PoA are very important. When
Harry plays Hufflepuff he is terrorized by the Dementors and loses the
Snitch for the first time ever to Cedric Diggory (who wanted to call it
off...showing very early what kind of guy he is). This leads him to studying
with Lupin about conjuring a Patronus (which is important to the climax of
the book). Then when he plays Ravenclaw, we are introduced to Cho Chang,
Harry's crush, for the first time...and we see his first "successful"
Patronus on Malfoy and company. Then, they play Slytherin and take the
Quidditch cup! The first time they win in 7 years! Plus, all that hoopla
with the Firebolt and how it causes a rift between Ron/Harry and Hermione?
Besides, I need to see Oliver try to "drown himself" in the showers.
Qudditch is a very important storytelling device and they can't cut it from
the film.
Also, even if GoF becomes two films (which is a great idea!), Cedric plays
an important role in PoA because early on in GoF, his "victory" over Harry
is mentioned by Amos Diggory!
>>>>>Regarding the length of the HP movies. I still don't understand why
2.7hrs for HP is 'butt numbing' but +3 hrs for Lord of the Rings doesn't
even rate a comment. I think it is a crime to make any of
these movies less than 3 hrs long. That extra 20 minute would allow so
much more plot and character developement. It would also allow a lot
smoother transitions between scenes, and make the movie a lot less
hurried, but still excitint pace.<<<<
It is SUCH a double standard. I think the whole "Well, HP is a children's
book" is a such a lame excuse! Practically everyone I know that's a HP fan
is 18 or over. I've seen CoS 5 times (I'm 22) and I loved every minute of
it. My sister (who's 18) saw it four times. I only saw "Fellowship" and "The
Two Towers" once each in the theaters. What does that tell you? If you are
going to adapt a "much beloved" piece of literature, you have to do it
right. Besides, AOL Time Warner produces LotR AND HP, which is VERY
interesting.
The fans of Harry Potter (who aren't just children or are no longer
children...) have just as much right to get a "faithful" adaptation as the
LotR fans do.
Susan
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From myphilosophy2001 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 9 09:33:31 2003
From: myphilosophy2001 at yahoo.com (Moonstruck)
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 01:33:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Quidditch is important in PoA (was: Quidditch in PoA)
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <20030109093331.60154.qmail@web20804.mail.yahoo.com>
Gina wrote:
> I personally would prefer more time spent on the
> growing complexity
> of Harry's character, but I do enjoy the Quidditch
> sequences.
Actually, if you're reading for subtext, the Quidditch
squences in PoA -- far more so than PS/SS or CoS
--have *EVERYTHING* to do with the growing complexity
of Harry's character. I'm working on a paper I hope to
present at the Nimbus-2003 regarding the subtext of
adolescent depression in PoA, and I've found the
Quidditch matches offer a very compelling glimpse not
only into Harry's state of mind, but his growing sense
strength and self.
I could go into greater detail about the symbolism of
the matches, of the meaning of both Harry's "failures"
and successes on the Quidditch field, of how his two
broomsticks -- the Nimbus and the Firebolt -- are
representative of Harry's spiritual decline and
rebirth, but I'll spare you my overzealous analysis.
In short, while I could have argued going light on
Quidditch in the PS/SS and CoS movies, I have trouble
with the thought or marginalizing them in PoA.
-Jess :)
=====
"One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star." - Friedrich Neitzsche
http://www.livejournal.com/users/moonstruck4rjl/
Nimbus_2003-A Harry Potter Symposium:
http://www.hp2003.org/index.html
__________________________________________________
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From sophiamcl at hotmail.com Thu Jan 9 10:33:51 2003
From: sophiamcl at hotmail.com (sophia mclaughlin)
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 10:33:51 +0000
Subject: Quidditch in PoA
Message-ID:
Me:
Harry's and Cho's first encounter, > Sophia
Gina:
But they wouldn't HAVE to meet on the Quidditch field (pitch). When
he sees her at school someone could just tell Harry she plays Seeker
for Ravenclaw.
Me: Yes of course he could hear about her that way, but I'd like to see
Harry being polite to her on the field and her teasing him--you know, their
little interaction there. (in a really whiny voice): I want to see it acted!
It'd be sooooo cute!
Sophia
_________________________________________________________________
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From dfrankiswork at netscape.net Thu Jan 9 13:07:02 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David )
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 13:07:02 -0000
Subject: Movie as canon
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
I half-promised:
> I remember there was a very interesting post about eighteen months
> ago to the main list raising essentially this question in regard
to
> fanfic, and drawing comparison with oral traditions pre-printing
> such as the Arthurian romances or the Iliad. (And, Heidi,
pointing
> out the cultural relativism of the notion of copyright). There
were
> virtually no replies IIRC. I will see if I can dig it out.
I found it, by frantyck (Rrishi). It's message 29349 on the main
list.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/29349
The whole thing is worth reading, but I note especially:
> The way we discuss the HP books on this list and elsewhere shows
that more than the stories, the characters and the HP world itself
are what attract interest and loyalty. If Rowling is opening up a
new world for our literary and imaginative exploration -- and
yearning, for a forbidden continent -- then she does not have the
right to the last word. The discoverer must ultimately yield to the
developer.
and
> The purpose is also to point out that the definition of 'canon'
must be undertaken with an eye to this potential future. For
instance, if what is shown in the HP movies does not contradict the
fundamental principles of Rowling's vision, it should be treated as
canonical.
David
From rose590 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 9 19:40:43 2003
From: rose590 at yahoo.com (rose590 )
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 19:40:43 -0000
Subject: Gary Oldman [was] Sirius casting?
In-Reply-To: <20030109014047.34953.qmail@web21103.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Petra Pan
wrote:
> Susanne:
> > Oldman as Sirius?
> >
> > Have no idea how accurate Hollywoodreporter is,
> > but I just came across this:
> >
> > http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/
> > hollywoodreporter/film/index.jsp
>
Hi
My first post here. I've been lurking around since this group first
started. As a die hard, card carrying member of the I want to marry
Sirius Black club, I have particular interest in who is going to be
cast. I don't think there's a man alive that could live up to my
mental image of Black. I had to comment on this rumor.
If you haven't had the chance, check out this web site:
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~halle/oldman/images.html
Scroll down to the pictures of Oldman in the Scarlet Letter. Long,
scraggly hair and a little more worn down and I could definitely
handle Oldman as Sirius :)
Still holding out hope for Jason Carter, however. He definitely has
my number 1 vote !!!!!!!!! He comes the closest to the mind's eye so
far.
RoBro :)
From voicelady at mymailstation.com Fri Jan 10 00:45:19 2003
From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady)
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 20:45:19 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Rapture's posts
Message-ID:
Hey mods? While I'm all in favor of people having the freedom to believe in whatever religious beliefs they choose, this is not why I suscribe to this list. Can these posts please be moderated?
Thanks.
From penumbra10 at ameritech.net Fri Jan 10 03:13:27 2003
From: penumbra10 at ameritech.net (Nia )
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 03:13:27 -0000
Subject: Sean Biggerstaff rumors quashed
Message-ID:
This just came up on Counting Down. It's a reference to a bit which
appears here on Sean's web site:
http://www.seanbiggerstaff.com/article.asp?id=44
It seems to be quite an emphatic denial of the rather pervasive web
rumor that claims Sean will not be appearing in PoA. Of course we
will have to wait for a "solid confirmation," but it might put at
least a few of our fears to rest for a while, don't you think? ;-)
--Nia
From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 10 03:31:42 2003
From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny Linsenmayer)
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 21:31:42 -0600
Subject: ADMIN: Spam will happen......
Message-ID: <084501c2b858$cb61c3d0$4f5ffea9@cq5hs01>
Hi guys --
We've received a fair number of on-list and off-list comments about the spam
posts that hit the Movie list earlier today. Please be assured that we
always act quickly to remove offending posts, ban the account that sent the
spam and take any other necessary action.
We certainly apologize for the inconvenience or offense it may have caused
some of you, but without placing some restrictions on new members that would
become a fairly heavy burden on the list moderators and administrators, we
may have to live with the occasional spam post. The Moderators have
recently deliberated about the pros and cons of setting up list membership
in ways that might avoid spam and decided against those measures at this
time. Again, we apologize for the spam that hit the list today, but we did
take quick action against it. As always, you may email the Mods offlist if
you have some specific thoughts or suggestions.
Penny
for the Mods
From penny_rabey at hotmail.com Fri Jan 10 03:36:46 2003
From: penny_rabey at hotmail.com (pennyspace )
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 03:36:46 -0000
Subject: yet another casting idea
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
> --- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Deidre wrote:
> > Forgive if someone has mentioned this before, but a good friend
who
> is also
> > quite Buffy-verse obsessed like me suggested that Anthony
> Stewart Head
> > might be a good choice for either Sirius or Lupin.
Christi replied:
> I "hear" ASH when I read Lupin's dialogue, so the idea definitely
> appeals to me. He could definitely pull of the quiet strength and
> guilty-secrets part of the character very well.
>
> ~Christi
I think ASH could definitely do the quiet strength of Lupin. He is
older than I imagined Lupin, but then Alan Rickman is in his 50s too,
IIRC. The only problem for me is, after watching Buffy for so many
years, he *is* Giles. But I am sure I would get over that , he is
a very talented actor.
I must say though, that my personal preference for Lupin is Ewan
McGregor, although I didn't really think of him until I had seen
Moulin Rouge. He is such a versatile actor, I think he would be
great as Lupin. I also think Ralph Fiennes would make a good Lupin.
All IMHO of course :)
PennyR
(who spends waaay too much time casting POA in her lil head)
From julia at thequiltbug.com Fri Jan 10 14:00:19 2003
From: julia at thequiltbug.com (Julia McCallum)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 06:00:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Gary Oldman [was] Sirius casting?
Message-ID: <20030110060020.21204.h012.c011.wm@mail.thequiltbug.com.criticalpath.net>
On Fri, 10 Jan 2003 05:55:12 -0800 (PST), "rose590 " wrote:
>>>As a die hard, card carrying member of the I want to marry
Sirius Black club, I have particular interest in who is going to be
cast.? I don't think there's a man alive that could live up to my
mental image of Black.
I agree. When JKR said he was "dead sexy," I just got this picture in my head
that no one has been able to match. *sigh*
>>>>Scroll down to the pictures of Oldman in the Scarlet Letter.? Long,
scraggly hair and a little more worn down and I could definitely
handle Oldman as Sirius :)
I had forgotten that he was in that and also in "Immortal Beloved". Very close,
but almost "too" harsh looking. When I think Sirius, I see someone really
deranged looking - but underneath you can see how good looking he'd be after
some home-cooked meals, a bath, and a haircut, and some TLC...I can't see the
"underneath" part with Oldman.
>>>>Still holding out hope for Jason Carter, however.? He definitely has
my number 1 vote !!!!!!!!!? He comes the closest to the mind's eye so
far.
I am not sure I know who Jason Carter is. What's he been in?
Julia
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From rose590 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 10 14:57:08 2003
From: rose590 at yahoo.com (rose590 )
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:57:08 -0000
Subject: Gary Oldman [was] Sirius casting?
In-Reply-To: <20030110060020.21204.h012.c011.wm@mail.thequiltbug.com.criticalpath.net>
Message-ID:
--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Julia McCallum"
wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Jan 2003 05:55:12 -0800 (PST), "rose590 " wrote:
>
>
> >>>>Still holding out hope for Jason Carter, however.? He
definitely has
> my number 1 vote !!!!!!!!!? He comes the closest to the mind's eye
so
> far.
>
> I am not sure I know who Jason Carter is. What's he been in?
>
> Julia
>
He was in Babylon 5. Not perfect for the part, but pretty durn good.
RoBro
From natmichaels at hotmail.com Fri Jan 10 19:26:35 2003
From: natmichaels at hotmail.com (lorien_eve )
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:26:35 -0000
Subject: Gary Oldman [was] Sirius casting?
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
Hey! This, too, is my first post in this group. I've been a lurker
for a couple of months now. When I saw some of the pictures of Gary
Oldman, he didn't fit as my ideal Sirius, either. BUT THEN I saw
that picture that you mentioned--the one from The Scarlet Letter--
and now he's definitely one of my picks for Sirius, if they give him
that same look. I was a die-hard Jason Carter fan until I saw this
picture. IMO, either one of these guys would be a great Sirius.
Lorien_Eve
> >
>
>
> Hi
>
> My first post here. I've been lurking around since this group
first
> started. As a die hard, card carrying member of the I want to
marry
> Sirius Black club, I have particular interest in who is going to
be
> cast. I don't think there's a man alive that could live up to my
> mental image of Black. I had to comment on this rumor.
>
> If you haven't had the chance, check out this web site:
>
> http://www.csh.rit.edu/~halle/oldman/images.html
>
> Scroll down to the pictures of Oldman in the Scarlet Letter.
Long,
> scraggly hair and a little more worn down and I could definitely
> handle Oldman as Sirius :)
>
> Still holding out hope for Jason Carter, however. He definitely
has
> my number 1 vote !!!!!!!!! He comes the closest to the mind's eye
so
> far.
>
> RoBro :)
From kechelsen at aol.com Fri Jan 10 21:56:18 2003
From: kechelsen at aol.com (kathye_c )
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 21:56:18 -0000
Subject: Harris family speaks about replacement for Richard
Message-ID:
Over on the InternetMovie Data Base on Thursday, there was a short
article which stated that the Harris family has said they would like
to see Peter O'Toole take over the Dumbledore role. They felt
O'Toole would do well in the role.
Kathy
From rvotaw at i-55.com Sat Jan 11 03:28:03 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 21:28:03 -0600
Subject: Casting questions and comments
Message-ID: <004201c2b921$73891c20$26a2cdd1@RVotaw>
Okay, I've been thinking. Since it seems that the Gary Oldman as Sirius Black rumors are at least possible. The latest seems fairly possible and since WB hasn't denied it, that makes me think it's true. Anyway, at first I was worried about height. I always pictured Sirius around 6' or a bit more. With Lupin a little shorter. And Gary Oldman is (according to the IMDB) 5'9" which is (currently) only five inches taller than Daniel Radcliffe. I know, height can be added with shoes and all if needed but it seems like a nuisance. Since I'd pictured Lupin smaller, that limits the height range. But then I thought, why do I think this? Do we have a basis for this?
My point is, why do I have those heights fixed in my mind? Is there anything that ever gives a hint about Lupin and Sirius's heights? That one is taller than another? Or is it all in my head and could Lupin actually be taller than Sirius?
Richelle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From dan1575 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 11 07:18:23 2003
From: dan1575 at yahoo.com (dan1575 )
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 07:18:23 -0000
Subject: Cedric Diggory cut from PoA
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
Hello everyone, I'm new on this board so bear with me.
I'd just like to say that I quite agree with Susan on this. The three
quidditch matches in PoA are very important. If not, why JK Rowling
wrote three separate chapters on it? By far, they were the most
thrilling quidditch matches that Ms Rowling had written. It truly
saddens me to hear this news that they will be cut, especially since
I reread the Hufflepuff match and the Ravenclaw match in PoA last
night. I can only hope that this isn't true.
> I totally agree. They can't cut Quidditch. Not only because it's a
> reoccuring thing in the books, but the games in PoA are very
important. When
> Harry plays Hufflepuff he is terrorized by the Dementors and loses
the
> Snitch for the first time ever to Cedric Diggory (who wanted to
call it
> off...showing very early what kind of guy he is). This leads him to
studying
> with Lupin about conjuring a Patronus (which is important to the
climax of
> the book). Then when he plays Ravenclaw, we are introduced to Cho
Chang,
> Harry's crush, for the first time...and we see his first
"successful"
> Patronus on Malfoy and company. Then, they play Slytherin and take
the
> Quidditch cup! The first time they win in 7 years! Plus, all that
hoopla
> with the Firebolt and how it causes a rift between Ron/Harry and
Hermione?
From dan1575 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 11 07:29:32 2003
From: dan1575 at yahoo.com (dan1575 )
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 07:29:32 -0000
Subject: Ian McKellen as Dumbledore?
Message-ID:
Hello, I'm new here so pardon me if this is old news. But, I'd just
opened imdb.com and looked if the cast of PoA had been updated or
not. Well, it stated Sir Ian McKellen as Dumbledore. Is this true? I
think he'd be perfect! What you guys think?
From rvotaw at i-55.com Sat Jan 11 16:56:51 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 10:56:51 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Cedric Diggory cut from PoA
References:
Message-ID: <002101c2b992$70d53560$19a2cdd1@RVotaw>
dan1575 writes:
> I'd just like to say that I quite agree with Susan on this. The three
> quidditch matches in PoA are very important. If not, why JK Rowling
> wrote three separate chapters on it? By far, they were the most
> thrilling quidditch matches that Ms Rowling had written. It truly
> saddens me to hear this news that they will be cut, especially since
> I reread the Hufflepuff match and the Ravenclaw match in PoA last
> night. I can only hope that this isn't true.
First of all, let me say I hope the rumors that Sean Biggerstaff is not resigned for PoA aren't true. I understand that the magazine the article where he said he'd not yet been signed (or asked even, can't quite remember) is a couple of months old. Which means that it's possible the interview is a couple of months older than that. He comments in the article about having seen Alan Rickman's Private Life on Broadway. That started in the summer, anyone know how long it ran? Anyway, basically I'm saying if it's been as much as four months, he could easily have signed on in those four months.
However, if he's not signed, what does that mean for Quidditch in PoA? You can hardly have Harry playing Quidditch by himself. Or with just the twins. You've got to have the whole team. Is it possible to cut Quidditch entirely? To the story line in general, I mean? It would be a butchering of the story as a whole. As dan1575 wrote above, why would JKR include three separate Quidditch matches/chapters if it weren't important? Just logically speaking for a minute, if Harry isn't playing Quidditch, the dementors can't come to the match and he can't fall off the broom. If he doesn't fall off the broom, he won't know how desperately he needs a defence against the dementors. If he doesn't know that, he won't ask Lupin for help. If he doesn't ask Lupin for help, he won't have dementor lessons, won't know how to produce a patronus, won't save himself, Hermione, etc. Well, there goes the whole story. So he's got to fall off the broom. What else would it be? I think I've successfully convinced myself they can't cut Quidditch entirely.
Now, unfortunately, I do think they'll narrow it to two (please, not just one) Quidditch games. Which means no Hufflepuff, no Ravenclaw, no Cho Chang or Cedric Diggory. Which pretty much guarantees they've just about decided to make GoF two movies. One for character development, one for the rest of the story. I guess, theoretically, they could have just one match against Slytherin in which Harry falls off the broom and Malfoy catches the Snitch (ugh). But I can't see them not having that priceless scene with the fake dementors where Harry first produces a patronus of some sort. It's needed. I need it. I need to see McGonagall yelling at Malfoy and co. Or at the very least at Crabbe and Goyle, if they make it the Quidditch final against Slytherin.
Richelle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From ilovelucius at yahoo.com Sat Jan 11 22:55:02 2003
From: ilovelucius at yahoo.com (Robin Van Dusen)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:55:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Digest Number 449
In-Reply-To: <1042295769.2241.43244.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030111225502.29018.qmail@web41408.mail.yahoo.com>
>Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 07:29:32 -0000
> From: "dan1575 "
>Subject: Ian McKellen as Dumbledore?
>Hello, I'm new here so pardon me if this is old news. But, I'd just
>opened imdb.com and looked if the cast of PoA had been updated or
>not. Well, it stated Sir Ian McKellen as Dumbledore. Is this true? I
>think he'd be perfect! What you guys think?
I wrote:
I think Sir Ian McKellen is perfect! He is a Gemini (same birthday as me, May 25 ;-)) and Geminis have that *sparkle* that Dumbledore should have. A MOST excellent and my first choice! Ever since I saw him portray Gandalf in LotR, I felt he would be an even better Dumbledore!
Robin V. (HP and Lotr maniac!)
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From feliciarickmann at dsl.pipex.com Sun Jan 12 15:57:58 2003
From: feliciarickmann at dsl.pipex.com (Felicia Rickmann )
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 15:57:58 -0000
Subject: Ian McKellen as Dumbledore?
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
Does not seem promising as he is now forever Gandalf in the eyes of many.
Leaky Cauldron has a report that Michael Gambon (fine actor and not an
international *superstar*) has been asked. He is, I think tall enough
and can cover the character pretty well. Still my hope is thta Peter
O'Toole will get the job.
Felicia
> Hello, I'm new here so pardon me if this is old news. But, I'd just
> opened imdb.com and looked if the cast of PoA had been updated or
> not. Well, it stated Sir Ian McKellen as Dumbledore. Is this true? I
> think he'd be perfect! What you guys think?
From tinkerbell634 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 12 18:11:52 2003
From: tinkerbell634 at yahoo.com (pixie_tink_sweetart )
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 18:11:52 -0000
Subject: Extra Scene in CoS
Message-ID:
I've just watched CoS for the umpteenth time and at the very end,
after the credits, there is a short clip of Flourish and Blotts in
Diagon Ally; we see a book in the window titled "Who Am I?" and
there's a moving picture of Gilderoy Lockhart in a straightjacket.
I've sat through the credits before, and it wasn't there, so it has
to be new. Check it out, it's really cute!
~Pixie Tink
From Audra1976 at aol.com Sun Jan 12 18:22:00 2003
From: Audra1976 at aol.com (Audra1976 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 13:22:00 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Extra Scene in CoS
Message-ID: <6d.6fc3f30.2b530c48@aol.com>
In a message dated 1/12/03 1:12:52 PM, tinkerbell634 at yahoo.com writes:
<< I've sat through the credits before, and it wasn't there, so it has
to be new. >>
Nope, it's always been there. It just takes a really long time because the
credits are so long.
Audra
From illyana at mindspring.com Sun Jan 12 19:48:06 2003
From: illyana at mindspring.com (illyana delorean)
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 12:48:06 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Extra Scene in CoS
In-Reply-To: <6d.6fc3f30.2b530c48@aol.com>
References: <6d.6fc3f30.2b530c48@aol.com>
Message-ID:
yah, it was there when i saw the movie on opening day. however, i've
heard from some people who knew about the scene that their movie
theater did not show it (or stopped the movie right at the end of the
credits, so that it was not included). that might have been what
happened to you - your theater just did not show the scene.
illyana
>
>
><< I've sat through the credits before, and it wasn't there, so it has
>to be new. >>
>
>Nope, it's always been there. It just takes a really long time because the
>credits are so long.
>
>Audra
--
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2F13, 3F02, 3F05, 4F01, 4F08, 4F11, 4F19 F1980
HPGCv1
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GG-- CD+ VK++ SS+++& PT--- AF-- MM++ RL++ O+m FAo F- Sl FHo SfD
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Superintendent Chalmers
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From illyana at mindspring.com Sun Jan 12 19:50:19 2003
From: illyana at mindspring.com (illyana delorean)
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 12:50:19 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Extra Scene in CoS
In-Reply-To: