The Importance of Being Flint

[Susan Atherton]

Firstly, my apologies to Amy Z. I think it was my post that started off most of the arguing you were referring to; although I was trying to write it in a friendly debate sense, I can see some of my sarcastic comments may have come off as hostile arguing. It's my sense of humour, and I have enough trouble IRL with people miscontruing what I say - I should know better than to push it in text, where I don't have body language and tone of voice to soften the blow. Sorry anyone else who was offended by my comments - the majority of the reasoning behind my argument is simply playing devil's advocate to Kyle, I like discussing stuff like this and it wasn't intended to get nasty.

Secondly, Felicia, you didn't half make me giggle when you said Petra Pan's (in my opinion very good) post was too long when it was about a quarter of the length of my original Importance of Being Flint one!!

Disclaimer in place, I must dust off my soap box and share the wonder of my opinion with you all again :)

Kyle said:
Now I think we can make a difference but why do you 
say we can't when if we have our voices heard then they will bend over 
backwards for us!!    I just don't want to see harry potter go the way of 
Terminator with Arnold Scazanagger, Alien and the rest of the movies that 
have sequals!!

Now, as I keep saying, I do admire your gusto - to quote a wise man, I completely disagree with what you say but would fight to the death for your right to say it - and it's nice to see you are such a fan of the HP movies (to me, they really are just an enhancement of the books, not a separate and equally good series), but some of your arguments confound me. Especially since you've picked here Terminator 2 and Aliens, Alien 3, and Alien Resurrection (I know T3 is being made, but since no-one's seen it yet, I don't count it). T2 and Aliens are, along with the Godfather part II, generally agreed to be some of the very few sequels that are far better than their predecessors. You don't want the HP series to get better as time goes on?? ~scratches head in confusion~

I said:
That said, I *really* hope they don't cut the Boggart lesson...
Kyle replied:
First response they could!!!

~pulls out hair~

Gah! I know that, sweetie! I'm well aware that they could cut all my favourite scenes, and I'm starting to feel I should get "I WANT TO KEEP QUIDDITCH" tattooed on my forehead, I've said it so often. I'm just pointing out the fact that they can do more or less everything they want.

I said:
 I have faith in him that it will be a 
> worthwhile film - I'm just doubtful as to how well it well stand up to my 
> vision of PoA in my head.
He said:
Me too but remember the director also wants to be faithful to the loyal 
fanbase as well.

You say "the director". I'm taking that as one of three interpretations:
a) Chris Columbus wants to be faithful to the loyal fanbase.
b) Alfonso Cuaron wants to be faithful to the loyal fanbase.
c) Directors in general want to be faithful to the loyal fanbase of any sequels to beloved movies.

a) Columbus DID say that remaining faithful to the book was very important to him, but Columbus isn't directing PoA (how sad... ~vbg~)
b) Cuaron made no such promise. He's just here to make a good movie.
c) It's not an unwritten rule. Or a written rule. It was Columbus' own principals that came into play - we cannot reasonably expect Cuaron to play by Columbus' rules.

He said:
True but it seems its becoming more and more a kids film!!  Which is 
baaaaaadddddd !!!
I say:
Well, to be honest, "becoming" brings to mind the words "horse" "door" "after" and "bolted". The books were just written by JKR for JKR - if anyone else wanted to buy them, more power to them. She never intended them as books for adults or kids - they were just seen as kids books by Scholastic and Bloomsbury, and marketed thus. WB, knowing the majority of the fanbase lay in the under 16 demographic, marketed the films similarly. I think this is why a lot of adults have trouble with the movies - they are really made for the kids. It bothers us the way everything is slapdash and the delightful strands of plot are squished up - kids for the most part couldn't care less, they want the more the better. I mean, the entire Polyjuice thing in CoS is pointless when you look at it - they found out NOTHING, except that Malfoy wasn't behind it. (Or did they find out the Chamber had been opened before? No, they learned that in the hospital. That Myrtle had died, maybe? Oh, I can't remember.) But simply by introducing it, she'd set up a little mention of boomslang skin in GoF that could be slipped in innocently enough and set up the Polyjuice ending. This is just one random example of the sneakiness in the books that is lost in the films.


Anyway.

<<snip stuff about Pee Wee Herman, which Meliss9900 at aol.com answered much better than me>>

Kyle said:
No but I still want the same cast!!!  I think the Goblet will do better then 
the rest but by that time the movies will have sucked (tom the innkeeper is 
being played by someone else now!!)
I say:
I don't really understand why you are backing these particular horses. I can see your point on the HRHD thing, because I agree, I want them to stay too - but Tom the one line Innkeeper? Marcus "Look at my teeth not my acting" Flint? Do you seriously believe that the change of actor from "whoever played him in PS" to "Whoever's playing him in PoA" will affect the film that badly? Maybe the actor who played Tom didn't want to do it again. Maybe he died. Maybe he's busy. We can't blame WB for EVERYTHING. (Tempting though, huh?!)

I said:
(which I don't think woudl be SUCH a bad thing - PS and CoS sucked compared to the books, but they weren't unwatchable)
Kyle said:
You thought the movies sucked!!  I loved the movies and  I thought the 
chamber wasnt going to be a good one but it was excellent!!
I say:
Don't get me wrong, as movies they are okay, but they aren't a very good representation of the books, nor are they a very good ambassador to the non-HP world.


Kyle said:
I dont think they are different but I think its like  Luke Skyewalker can't 
spell it!  Okay now in the middle of filming lets change the cast since  
Radcliffe and company are leaving and there really not happy anymore.  
Remember this is a business!  Your not always going to be happy in what you 
do!  I don't think the kids  are our personal property but just think what 
would happen if Rupert, Dan or Emma decided to quit???

I say:
Luke Skywalker? Huh? Do you mean that Mark Hamill hasn't done much acting since Star Wars, or that they changed Luke Skywalker? Because they didn't change him... ~confused~
If you're referring to the current trilogy, they are prequels. Luke hasn't been born yet. And if you mean that they changed *Anakin* Skywalker from Jake Lloyd to Hayden Christiansen in Ep2, they kinda had to - the films are set ten years apart, he had to become 19 in two or three years.

As far as "remembering this is a business" - well, I'm sorry, but you are really starting to worry me now. They're just children. How on earth can you say they should be miserable to entertain us for a couple of hours? 

If they don't want to do it, they shouldn't have to. You are essentially talking about denying them the right to choose just to make you happy. And that's a horrible attitude to have. I'm not trying to be harsh, here, I just want you to hear what you're saying.

I said:
> " they have to stay or we won't go see the film!"
> Hmmm. Do you really think they'll care if they aren't in it? Not *their* 
> problem. 
He said:
No its not but on the other hand do you really think the last film is going 
to be as hot as the first and 2nd one???  If they care about there fans they 
will still.  
I say:
One might say if their fans care about them, they'd support their decisions... What exactly do you mean by "hot", by the way? I mean, are we talking Hansel ("he's so hot right now" hehe)?


He said:
Well I think it does becuase Harry Potter is a runaway train but if they hear 
enough voices they will bend over backwards for us!!  Since  people think 
there isnt going to be much we can do okay I am resigned to the fact Harry 
Potter is going to sh(t in a  hand basket! 

They will bend over backwards? No offence, but I think you are being a little naive. They might shift a little if the fandom really DID go into action, but the WB execs are rich, powerful men. They don't bend over backwards for their mothers, never mind us.

Re: McKellen
He said:
I think he was since a article said he was shooting X-Men one day and off the 
to the Lord of the Rings the next!!  Its stressful being in the entertainment 
business.

Perhaps it meant he was shooting X2 and follow-up reshoots for TTT or ROTK at the same time? I'm pretty sure he was in NZ for all the time he was shooting LOTR. Or maybe it meant he finished shooting X-Men and hopped on a plane to NZ and started on LOTR the next day, or vice-versa? As I said, NZ and California are a good eleven hours from each other. To make one of your principals fly back and forth two and three times a week isn't good business sense for either production - I really think you should double-check that. Common sense dictates they wouldn't work that way.

Kyle said:
Well I do admit that sequels can do good but I am very worried about Harry 
Potter and company!!  If the recast Tom the innkeeper is Dudley next???

You missed my point somewhat. I was saying that on the whole sequels DO suck, but it's because the original idea that made the first film so sh*t-hot is subverted over the series. In the case of adaptations, it can be that the original book has no sequel - hence Jurassic Park and The Lost World doing ridiculously well at the box office and JPIII more or less sinking without trace (although the fact that we're used to amazing CGI now could have something to do with it - maybe one of those mad Stephen King spin-offs might have been a better example).

As far as comparing Tom and Dudley - check your books. How many canon mentions does Tom have compared to little Duddikins? You really can't put the two together.


Kyle said re WB and the powers that be:
I think there more interested in the money not our the loyal fanbase
I throw up my hands in joy and shout:
He sees the light!!

Kyle said:
> <<Why have the same cast for Lord of the Rings but not Harry 
> Potter???  Why is that a problem???  >>
I said:
> Because LOTR was shot back to back. Harry is being shot, released, shot, 
> released, shot...etc. The cast all signed up for 1 long movie cut into 
> three parts - the HP cast didn't.
He said:
Well they should of done it that way but didnt!!
I shrug and say:
Tough nuggies, really. Too late now.

He said:
why then is Elijah wood still recognized as a child actor???  He was a 
nominaee for a kids award and his now 23 or 24 maybe younger but an adult! 

I take it you are referring to a Kids Choice award or something? They are chosen by kids, not specifically for children only. One might argue that the Oscars are an "adult" award, so what business did Haley Joel Osment have being nominated for Best Supporting Actor? What about Beauty and the Beast for Best Picture? etc etc.

Kyle said:
I would stay in Harry Potter until the end!! 

Bully for you. I'd do the same. They don't want to - maybe, just maybe they know better than we do? Since they are actually living it, and we're just imagining?

Kyle said:
Why does the director think or Steve Kloves think having the same cast 
will be not good!!!!!!  

Oh lordy. They do! They want to keep them! It's the kids themselves who want to leave, not the directors! And Steve Kloves? He's a writer - they rank just above coffee boy on a film set.

Kyle then said something I found pretty amusing:
If Harry Potter gets to be real big I think the adults will be stuck as well 
but again you never know!!

Sorry, I just had to mention this bit. IF HARRY POTTER GETS TO BE REAL BIG??? Are you kidding me?!?! :) 


Susan
wondering if we'll have WB-sponsored clothes and HP bread when Harry gets to be real big, if he's currently quite small - unless you meant height-wise :D
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
"Help me Jebus!" --Homer Simpson
"Shame on you! Ugly baby judges you!" --Ross Geller
"Oh yeah, and did I mention I've got a baby?" --Stuart Alan Jones
"You know, I telephoned my grandparents the other day, and my grandfather said to me, 'We saw your movie.' 'Which one?' I said, and he shouted, 'Betty, what was the name of that movie I didn't like?'" --Brad Pitt


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