From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Tue Nov  1 16:48:46 2005
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 16:48:46 -0000
Subject: Review from advance screening
Message-ID: <dk869e+cvdp@eGroups.com>

If you're interested in seeing a review from someone who's seen the 
finished GoF product, here 'tis:

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=21652

It's only "spoilerish" in the sense of telling things like which adult 
characters are hardly present, how much Fleur & Viktor speak, what from 
the book is missing, why the reviewer believes the movie is decidedly 
NOT for small children, etc.  

One big disappointment for me:  hearing we get a bit more Super!
Hermione and a bit more Secondary!Ron. :-(

Siriusly Snapey Susan








From sherriola at earthlink.net  Tue Nov  1 17:28:11 2005
From: sherriola at earthlink.net (Sherry Gomes)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 09:28:11 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Review from advance screening
In-Reply-To: <dk869e+cvdp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <002101c5df09$a313ca10$0400a8c0@pensive>

If you're interested in seeing a review from someone who's seen the 
finished GoF product, here 'tis:

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=21652

It's only "spoilerish" in the sense of telling things like which adult 
characters are hardly present, how much Fleur & Viktor speak, what from 
the book is missing, why the reviewer believes the movie is decidedly 
NOT for small children, etc.  

One big disappointment for me:  hearing we get a bit more Super!
Hermione and a bit more Secondary!Ron. :-(

Siriusly Snapey Susan


sherry

Wow, that review makes it sound very disappointing.  no Sirius?  no hug from
Molly and no support from Sirius.  more super girl Hermione and more
secondary Ron.  i think I might have to pass on this movie.  the last one
was really disappointing for me.  i can wait till it comes out on DVD, I
think.  Or at least wait to hear what people here think.

Sherry




From lizzy1933 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  2 22:58:09 2005
From: lizzy1933 at yahoo.com (lizzie_snape)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 22:58:09 -0000
Subject: Review from advance screening
In-Reply-To: <002101c5df09$a313ca10$0400a8c0@pensive>
Message-ID: <dkbga1+47du@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Sherry Gomes" <sherriola at e...> 
wrote:

> 
> Wow, that review makes it sound very disappointing.  no Sirius?  no 
hug from
> Molly and no support from Sirius.  more super girl Hermione and more
> secondary Ron.  i think I might have to pass on this movie.  the 
last one
> was really disappointing for me.  i can wait till it comes out on 
DVD, I
> think.  Or at least wait to hear what people here think.
> 
> Sherry
>

My sentiments exactly, Sherry.  I'm fortunate to have a second-run 
theatre nearby and I've pretty much made up my mind to wait till GoF 
is shown there.  On the other hand, my sister says we really need to 
see it on the large screen so I don't know what to do.  Just as you 
said a lot will depend on what I read on the Internet.

LizzieLilly








From glcherry at bellsouth.net  Thu Nov  3 01:06:09 2005
From: glcherry at bellsouth.net (glcherry at bellsouth.net)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 19:06:09 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Review from advance screening
References: <dkbga1+47du@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <43696281.80507@bellsouth.net>

While I haven't read the review myself, PC problems (blah), I'm really 
beginning to worry about this movie (as much as I look forward to seeing 
it).

 How is the thing supposed to end then? Have they eliminated the 
'meeting' in Dumbledores office where Harry explains everything that 
happened in the Graveyard? How can they NOT have that scene  which 
includes Sirius? Whats next? HP5 and *no* Sirius at all? Just a "oh by 
the way he disappeared at the DoM we have no idea where the mutt ran off 
to?"

Lorrie (Katrina survivor who is being kept up-to-date on  HP4 by this 
group) :)
lizzie_snape wrote:

>--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Sherry Gomes" <sherriola at e...> 
>wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Wow, that review makes it sound very disappointing.  no Sirius?  no 
>>    
>>
>hug from
>  
>
>>Molly and no support from Sirius.  more super girl Hermione and more
>>secondary Ron.  i think I might have to pass on this movie.  the 
>>    
>>
>last one
>  
>
>>was really disappointing for me.  i can wait till it comes out on 
>>    
>>
>DVD, I
>  
>
>>think.  Or at least wait to hear what people here think.
>>
>>Sherry
>>
>>    
>>
>
>My sentiments exactly, Sherry.  I'm fortunate to have a second-run 
>theatre nearby and I've pretty much made up my mind to wait till GoF 
>is shown there.  On the other hand, my sister says we really need to 
>see it on the large screen so I don't know what to do.  Just as you 
>said a lot will depend on what I read on the Internet.
>
>LizzieLilly
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
>Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying!
>
>Any questions or problems - contact the List Elves at HPforGrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com
>____________________________________________________________
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>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>  
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Thu Nov  3 04:39:04 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 23:39:04 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Review from advance screening
In-Reply-To: <43696281.80507@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <BF8EFE98.13DB%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>

OK guys...to play the devil?s advocate here (and because I can?t wait for
the movie to come out!) I just want to remind you all that GOF is the
biggest HP book. They talked about splitting it into 2 films, then decided
not to. We therefore knew going into this that much would be deleted. I?m
the first to admit that I was (and still am) highly disappointed that the
marauders story was left out of the POA movie. If JKR is consulted by Steven
Kloves how could that have happened???
GOF is so incredibly action packed that there is bound to be some good stuff
left out. I?m not so bummed about the SPEW storyline going by the wayside.
Though I?d like to see Dobby again, that girl elf was obnoxious! I?m
wondering how they will change the whole
Winky-hiding-in-the-bush-when-the-dark-mark-appears?? I?ve heard they?ve
already changed the beginning so that Crouch Jr. is at the Riddle house when
Bryce gets killed. The director thought it was too vague to introduce him in
the pensieve. 
I do wish they had left the touching Molly scene in...and Sirius is my
favorite character, so they?d better feature him aplenty in OOP!!!
That said, I think we need to go into this one expecting a really good show,
great special effects, improved acting, some interesting new characters, but
realize it will be an ?abbreviated? version of the GOF book. I intentionally
did not re-read GOF before the movie because I don?t want to be bummed at
how much they leave out.

Valerie

On 11/2/05 8:06 PM, "glcherry at bellsouth.net" <glcherry at bellsouth.net> wrote:

> While I haven't read the review myself, PC problems (blah), I'm really
> beginning to worry about this movie (as much as I look forward to seeing
> it).
> 
>  How is the thing supposed to end then? Have they eliminated the
> 'meeting' in Dumbledores office where Harry explains everything that
> happened in the Graveyard? How can they NOT have that scene  which
> includes Sirius? Whats next? HP5 and *no* Sirius at all? Just a "oh by
> the way he disappeared at the DoM we have no idea where the mutt ran off
> to?"
> 
> Lorrie (Katrina survivor who is being kept up-to-date on  HP4 by this
> group) :)
> lizzie_snape wrote:
> 
>> >--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Sherry Gomes" <sherriola at e...>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >  
>> >
>>> >>Wow, that review makes it sound very disappointing.  no Sirius?  no
>>> >>    
>>> >>
>> >hug from
>> >  
>> >
>>> >>Molly and no support from Sirius.  more super girl Hermione and more
>>> >>secondary Ron.  i think I might have to pass on this movie.  the
>>> >>    
>>> >>
>> >last one
>> >  
>> >
>>> >>was really disappointing for me.  i can wait till it comes out on
>>> >>    
>>> >>
>> >DVD, I
>> >  
>> >
>>> >>think.  Or at least wait to hear what people here think.
>>> >>
>>> >>Sherry
>>> >>
>>> >>    
>>> >>
>> >
>> >My sentiments exactly, Sherry.  I'm fortunate to have a second-run
>> >theatre nearby and I've pretty much made up my mind to wait till GoF
>> >is shown there.  On the other hand, my sister says we really need to
>> >see it on the large screen so I don't know what to do.  Just as you
>> >said a lot will depend on what I read on the Internet.
>> >
>> >LizzieLilly
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>> >
>> >Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material
>> from posts to which you're replying!
>> >
>> >Any questions or problems - contact the List Elves at
>> HPforGrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com
>> >____________________________________________________________
>> > 
>> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >  
>> >
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
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> 
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> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Harry+potter&w1=Harry+potter&w2=Entertain
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> =Entertainment+new+york&c=2&s=46&.sig=OQZoMcttoRd7gZ0olzJseA>
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From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Thu Nov  3 13:20:57 2005
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 13:20:57 -0000
Subject: Review from advance screening
In-Reply-To: <BF8EFE98.13DB%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <dkd2rp+rl2d@eGroups.com>

Valerie Flowe wrote:

> I do wish they had left the touching Molly scene in...and Sirius is my
> favorite character, so they?d better feature him aplenty in OOP!!!
> That said, I think we need to go into this one expecting a really 
> good show, great special effects, improved acting, some interesting 
> new characters, but realize it will be an ?abbreviated? version of 
> the GOF book. 


SSSusan:
I'm with you totally, Valerie.  I read the review and passed it along 
here so you all could get a heads-up on what kinds of things concerned 
this reviewer, but I guess after I read the review, I was still psyched 
to see the movie.  I mean, the review was GLOWING, in terms of this 
being an exciting, well-crafted film.  Yes, Molly's hug has been left 
out (wah!), as well as the Snape-Sirius forced handshake in the 
hospital wing (damn it!), but it still sounds like the movie will be a 
lot of fun and filled with thrills.

I have no doubts whatsoever about where she'll be on November 18.

Siriusly Snapey Susan, *thrilled* to see Dan's had a good haircut 
recently!









From artsylynda at aol.com  Thu Nov  3 15:25:23 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 10:25:23 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] GoF movie
Message-ID: <23d.437579.309b85e3@aol.com>

Yeah, they're leaving a lot out, and yeah, I'm bummed that Sirius  is 
relegated to being a glowing pile of embers (that's just a waste of good CGI  budget, 
IMO -- the head floating in the fire would have been just fine and they  
could have used that money elsewhere!).  BUT. . .I've viewed a lot of the  clips 
and trailers and I am blown away by how truly scary this film is (and I'm  
mid-50's, no kid here!).  Last night I saw the one from the DE attack on  the tent 
city -- I was SHOCKED at how it turned out!  (I won't spoil it for  you if 
you haven't seen it.)  It had me with my nose nearly on the puter  screen, I was 
so tense and worried about what was going to happen!!  This  is an 
action-packed, Harry-based film, which is how it should be, since all the  books are 
"Harry Potter and. . ." -- the fact that Winky and Dobby and SPEW and  Ludo 
Bagman are left out -- I can live with that.  I also saw the clip  where they pull 
their dragons out of the bag -- OH MY!  That's  AWESOME!  And now I understand 
why there are pictures of Hermione in the  tent when she wasn't supposed to 
be there -- that's a really touching  scene.  So while it's not the book, it 
was never INTENDED to be the  book.  The acting I've seen so far is incredibly 
good.  Harry trying  to ask Cho to the ball had ME cringing, remembering how 
horribly uncomfortable  it was to be a teenager trying to start dating (I got up 
the nerve to ask a boy  to the Sadie Hawkins Dance -- where girls ask the 
boys, in case you've never  heard of it -- and I waited too late and had exactly 
the same experience as  Harry did when he asked Cho, argh.)  Dan Radcliffe's 
acting, in every scene  I've watched so far, is INCREDIBLY good, as is Emma's 
-- I haven't seen enough  of Rupert's to tell, but his scene when he looks in 
the mirror at himself in  those horrible dress robes and he says, "Murder me, 
Harry" -- that's  wonderful!  :-)  I just wish they weren't so into "Super 
Hermione" and  "Lamebrain Sidekick Ron" -- but as long as they keep Harry as the 
hero he's  supposed to be, I'll keep going to the films.
 
Can't WAIT to see this one!
 
Lynda

"The cat's among the pixies now." Mrs. Figg,  OoP


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From heidi at heidi8.com  Thu Nov  3 18:36:18 2005
From: heidi at heidi8.com (Heidi)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 13:36:18 -0500
Subject: GOFIMAXINTL
Message-ID: <5913e6f80511031036x6bc05ab4yc998fd740df49ef9@mail.gmail.com>

We've just posted to The Leaky Cauldron about GOFIMAXINTL, a series of
imax showings in Houston, NYC, South Florida, Lansing, Seattle and
Irvine on Saturday afternoon, November 19. You can learn more here at
TLC: http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MTarchives/007861.php or on our
livejournal at gofimaxintl.livejournal.com.

Hope to see you there!

Best,
Heidi


Win a replica of The Goblet of Fire: http://www.fictionalley.org/contest



From bethbryant at optonline.net  Thu Nov  3 12:30:20 2005
From: bethbryant at optonline.net (Nona Bryant)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 07:30:20 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Review from advance screening
References: <BF8EFE98.13DB%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <005c01c5e072$5b492120$640fa8c0@emachine>

yay! got my tix got my tix got my tix!! I took the day off on the 18th to go with hubby. I read the review and it really does not scare me. I am trying to keep an open mind, and reminding myself that movies are ALWAYS different from the books, and to try to enjoy it no matter how much stuff is left out. I actually loved movie 3--I think that Cuaron perfectly captured to darkness of the book and despite the huge gaps in plotline and character development, I thought it was quite beautiful. I will be interested in seeing what Mike Newell has done with movie 4--he's also done a lot of directing for television, so maybe he is good at putting a lot of plot into less time. It will be good to see what my hubby thinks of the movie, since he's only read through book 3. cheers everyone,
-beth

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Valerie Flowe 
  To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 11:39 PM
  Subject: Re: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Review from advance screening


  OK guys...to play the devil?s advocate here (and because I can?t wait for
  the movie to come out!) I just want to remind you all that GOF is the
  biggest HP book. They talked about splitting it into 2 films, then decided
  not to. We therefore knew going into this that much would be deleted. I?m
  the first to admit that I was (and still am) highly disappointed that the
  marauders story was left out of the POA movie. If JKR is consulted by Steven
  Kloves how could that have happened???
  GOF is so incredibly action packed that there is bound to be some good stuff
  left out. I?m not so bummed about the SPEW storyline going by the wayside.
  Though I?d like to see Dobby again, that girl elf was obnoxious! I?m
  wondering how they will change the whole
  Winky-hiding-in-the-bush-when-the-dark-mark-appears?? I?ve heard they?ve
  already changed the beginning so that Crouch Jr. is at the Riddle house when
  Bryce gets killed. The director thought it was too vague to introduce him in
  the pensieve. 
  I do wish they had left the touching Molly scene in...and Sirius is my
  favorite character, so they?d better feature him aplenty in OOP!!!
  That said, I think we need to go into this one expecting a really good show,
  great special effects, improved acting, some interesting new characters, but
  realize it will be an ?abbreviated? version of the GOF book. I intentionally
  did not re-read GOF before the movie because I don?t want to be bummed at
  how much they leave out.

  Valerie

  On 11/2/05 8:06 PM, "glcherry at bellsouth.net" <glcherry at bellsouth.net> wrote:

  > While I haven't read the review myself, PC problems (blah), I'm really
  > beginning to worry about this movie (as much as I look forward to seeing
  > it).
  > 
  >  How is the thing supposed to end then? Have they eliminated the
  > 'meeting' in Dumbledores office where Harry explains everything that
  > happened in the Graveyard? How can they NOT have that scene  which
  > includes Sirius? Whats next? HP5 and *no* Sirius at all? Just a "oh by
  > the way he disappeared at the DoM we have no idea where the mutt ran off
  > to?"
  > 
  > Lorrie (Katrina survivor who is being kept up-to-date on  HP4 by this
  > group) :)
  > lizzie_snape wrote:
  > 
  >> >--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Sherry Gomes" <sherriola at e...>
  >> >wrote:
  >> >
  >> >  
  >> >
  >>> >>Wow, that review makes it sound very disappointing.  no Sirius?  no
  >>> >>    
  >>> >>
  >> >hug from
  >> >  
  >> >
  >>> >>Molly and no support from Sirius.  more super girl Hermione and more
  >>> >>secondary Ron.  i think I might have to pass on this movie.  the
  >>> >>    
  >>> >>
  >> >last one
  >> >  
  >> >
  >>> >>was really disappointing for me.  i can wait till it comes out on
  >>> >>    
  >>> >>
  >> >DVD, I
  >> >  
  >> >
  >>> >>think.  Or at least wait to hear what people here think.
  >>> >>
  >>> >>Sherry
  >>> >>
  >>> >>    
  >>> >>
  >> >
  >> >My sentiments exactly, Sherry.  I'm fortunate to have a second-run
  >> >theatre nearby and I've pretty much made up my mind to wait till GoF
  >> >is shown there.  On the other hand, my sister says we really need to
  >> >see it on the large screen so I don't know what to do.  Just as you
  >> >said a lot will depend on what I read on the Internet.
  >> >
  >> >LizzieLilly
  >> >
  >> >
  >> >
  >> >
  >> >
  >> >
  >> >
  >> >
  >> >________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
  >> >
  >> >Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material
  >> from posts to which you're replying!
  >> >
  >> >Any questions or problems - contact the List Elves at
  >> HPforGrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com
  >> >____________________________________________________________
  >> > 
  >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
  >> >
  >> >
  >> >
  >> > 
  >> >
  >> >
  >> >
  >> >  
  >> >
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > 
  > 
  > 
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  > 
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  > from posts to which you're replying!
  > 
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  > HPforGrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com
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From emrsing at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  3 20:38:28 2005
From: emrsing at yahoo.com (Beth MotherBear)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 12:38:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] GoF movie
In-Reply-To: <23d.437579.309b85e3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20051103203828.95616.qmail@web81008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I too am anxiously awaiting seeing GOF on the big screen (and hopefully on the realllllly big screen at IMAX).  I was seriously disappointed with movie 3, but had read and reread book 3 several times just before the movie.  But I added the DVD to my collection anyway and have come to enjoy it as it is.  This time I've wised up.  I haven't reread book 4 in over a year.  Hopefully, that will help.  My biggest disappointment is in what they have done to Dumbledore's character.  Instead of the most powerful wizard ever, however eccentric, they have turned him into a buffoon who is just plain weird, and certainly doesn't inspire confidence (IMO).  The review seems that this characterization is continued.  Knowing that in advance, I will be expecting it, and hopefully it won't ruin the movie for me this time.

artsylynda at aol.com wrote: Yeah, they're leaving a lot out, and yeah, I'm bummed that Sirius  is 
relegated to being a glowing pile of embers (that's just a waste of good CGI  budget, 
IMO -- the head floating in the fire would have been just fine and they  
could have used that money elsewhere!).  BUT. . .I've viewed a lot of the  clips 
and trailers and I am blown away by how truly scary this film is (and I'm  
mid-50's, no kid here!).  Last night I saw the one from the DE attack on  the tent 
city -- I was SHOCKED at how it turned out!  (I won't spoil it for  you if 
you haven't seen it.)  It had me with my nose nearly on the puter  screen, I was 
so tense and worried about what was going to happen!!  This  is an 
action-packed, Harry-based film, which is how it should be, since all the  books are 
"Harry Potter and. . ." -- the fact that Winky and Dobby and SPEW and  Ludo 
Bagman are left out -- I can live with that.  I also saw the clip  where they pull 
their dragons out of the bag -- OH MY!  That's  AWESOME!  And now I understand 
why there are pictures of Hermione in the  tent when she wasn't supposed to 
be there -- that's a really touching  scene.  So while it's not the book, it 
was never INTENDED to be the  book.  The acting I've seen so far is incredibly 
good.  Harry trying  to ask Cho to the ball had ME cringing, remembering how 
horribly uncomfortable  it was to be a teenager trying to start dating (I got up 
the nerve to ask a boy  to the Sadie Hawkins Dance -- where girls ask the 
boys, in case you've never  heard of it -- and I waited too late and had exactly 
the same experience as  Harry did when he asked Cho, argh.)  Dan Radcliffe's 
acting, in every scene  I've watched so far, is INCREDIBLY good, as is Emma's 
-- I haven't seen enough  of Rupert's to tell, but his scene when he looks in 
the mirror at himself in  those horrible dress robes and he says, "Murder me, 
Harry" -- that's  wonderful!  :-)  I just wish they weren't so into "Super 
Hermione" and  "Lamebrain Sidekick Ron" -- but as long as they keep Harry as the 
hero he's  supposed to be, I'll keep going to the films.

Can't WAIT to see this one!

Lynda

"The cat's among the pixies now." Mrs. Figg,  OoP





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From sherriola at earthlink.net  Thu Nov  3 20:45:03 2005
From: sherriola at earthlink.net (Sherry Gomes)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 12:45:03 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] GoF movie
In-Reply-To: <20051103203828.95616.qmail@web81008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <008f01c5e0b7$784741e0$0400a8c0@pensive>

I hope that growing up right now, is some kid who will be a great movie
director someday and will take on a project of redoing all the HP movies.
somewhat in the way Jackson did LOTR.  sure, those weren't perfect for
everything, but in general, he did a wonderful job because he wanted to
honor Tolkien's work.  Maybe, someday, someone will feel like that about the
Potter books and we might get some truly fine movies.  POA movie was so
disappointing to me, and I actually fell asleep during the DVD!  I think
I'll skip GOF so as not to feel so disappointed.

Sherry




From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Fri Nov  4 03:28:35 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 22:28:35 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] RE: Dan's good haircut
In-Reply-To: <dkd2rp+rl2d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <BF903F93.143A%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>

> 
> 
> Siriusly Snapey Susan, *thrilled* to see Dan's had a good haircut
> recently!
> 
> Isn?t he a cutie!?! Did you see the MTV promo for a chance to win a trip to
> the HP studios? (access through LeakyCauldron). He looked especially adorable.
> What about that interview (also on Leaky) where he stated that now that he is
> 16 he is ?of legal age for sex, so bring on the towel girls?!!!!!! Goodness!
> Seems like only yesterday our l?il Harry was setting off for his first year at
> Hogwarts! :-)
> Valerie



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  4 08:41:03 2005
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 00:41:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: for Jason Isaacs fans
Message-ID: <20051104084118.52385.qmail@web51903.mail.yahoo.com>

I saw a Craigslist ad ( http://www.craigslist.org/eby/cwg/108347156.html ) 
about the film "Tennis, Anyone...?" ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0413356
).  
As always, be cautious about answering ads but should this turn out to
really 
be Donal Logue, the showings at Berkeley, CA may be one of the few times 
die-hard Jason Isaacs fans can catch this movie of his, which doesn't have
a 
major distribution deal.

Petra
a
n  :)


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com



From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Fri Nov  4 12:58:40 2005
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 12:58:40 -0000
Subject: Dan's good haircut
In-Reply-To: <BF903F93.143A%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <dkflu0+gkj2@eGroups.com>

> > Siriusly Snapey Susan, *thrilled* to see Dan's had a good haircut
> > recently!

Valerie:
> Isn?t he a cutie!?! Did you see the MTV promo for a chance to win a 
> trip to the HP studios? (access through LeakyCauldron). He looked 
> especially adorable.


SSSusan:
Indeed I did, and hollered for my 9-year-old daughter [who--shhhhh!!--
has a big crush on him] to come watch it, too.  He cracked me up when 
he said, at the end, "Coming!!" and dashed off.








From juli17 at aol.com  Fri Nov  4 18:38:05 2005
From: juli17 at aol.com (juli17 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 13:38:05 EST
Subject: GoF movie
Message-ID: <259.2e9ffa.309d048d@aol.com>

 
Sherry wrote:

I hope  that growing up right now, is some kid who will be a great movie
director  someday and will take on a project of redoing all the HP movies.
somewhat  in the way Jackson did LOTR.  sure, those weren't perfect  for
everything, but in general, he did a wonderful job because he wanted  to
honor Tolkien's work.  Maybe, someday, someone will feel like that  about the
Potter books and we might get some truly fine movies.  POA  movie was so
disappointing to me, and I actually fell asleep during the  DVD!  I think
I'll skip GOF so as not to feel so  disappointed.

Sherry



You know JKR might still be alive in the 30 years or so you're  looking
toward, and she might have something to say about whether the movies
are remade again. Just noting that fact, as she's expressed  satisfaction 
with the current movies and actors. We all have a right to like or  not
like how the movies have turned out, but it's not really our opinion  that
matters so much as JKR's, at least during her lifetime. 
 
That said, whether they are ever remade (and probably will be at some
point), I still like the experience of seeing places and characters  realized
on the screen, even if I like some of the realizations better than  others.
I'm going full tilt and seeing it on IMAX--got the tickets already! I  hope
I'm not too overwhelmed by the special effects, especially during the 
graveyard scene :-0
 
Julie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From thebigapplecon at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  4 15:18:57 2005
From: thebigapplecon at yahoo.com (thebigapplecon)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 15:18:57 -0000
Subject: Hogwarts Boys Come To New York For Opening!
Message-ID: <dkfu51+i9ae@eGroups.com>

Three boys from Hogwarts are coming to New York City for the opening 
of Goblet of Fire!

To celebrate the opening weekend of the latest installment of the 
Harry Potter movie series, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, this 
November 18, 19, and 20, (Friday, Saturday, and Sunday), Devon 
Murray (Seamus Finnigan), Matthew Lewis (Neville Longbottom), and 
Jamie Walett (Vincent Crabbe) will be present at the Big Apple 
Convention annual National Expo, the largest comic book/sci-
fi/fantasy/pop-culture convention on the East Coast. This is a rare 
opportunity for fans to meet this many cast members from the popular 
movie series in New York City. They will be signing autographs and 
cheerfully greeting their fans all weekend.

Other guests at the convention include Carrie Fisher (Star Wars), 
Ray Park (Star Wars, Ep. I), Daniel Logan (Star Wars, Ep. II), 
Richard Hatch (Battlestar Galactica), Debbie Rochon (Troma Films), 
the Monkees' Peter Tork, and comic book writers and artists Neal 
Adams, Harvey Pekar, Dick Giordano, Adam Hughes, Michael Kaluta, 
Walter Simonson, and many, many more! This is looking to be the 
biggest National Expo ever!

The Big Apple Convention is located at the Penn Plaza Pavilion, at 
401 7th Ave and 33rd St, right across the street from Penn Station 
in New York City. Tickets are $15 per day or $40 for all three days 
(with early admission on Friday).

For tickets, directions, and further information, go to 
http://www.bigapplecon.com

Captain Zorikh
zorikh at juno.com










From anmsmom333 at cox.net  Fri Nov  4 19:49:21 2005
From: anmsmom333 at cox.net (Theresa)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 19:49:21 -0000
Subject: GoF movie
In-Reply-To: <008f01c5e0b7$784741e0$0400a8c0@pensive>
Message-ID: <dkge01+okh7@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Sherry Gomes" <sherriola at e...> 
wrote:
>
> I hope that growing up right now, is some kid who will be a great 
movie
> director someday and will take on a project of redoing all the HP 
movies.
> somewhat in the way Jackson did LOTR.  sure, those weren't perfect 
for
> everything, but in general, he did a wonderful job because he 
wanted to
> honor Tolkien's work.  Maybe, someday, someone will feel like that 
about the
> Potter books and we might get some truly fine movies.  POA movie 
was so
> disappointing to me, and I actually fell asleep during the DVD!  I 
think
> I'll skip GOF so as not to feel so disappointed.
> 
> Sherry
>
Though there have been some things I have thought could have been 
done better or wondered why something was left out. I really have 
been impressed that the films IMHO do reflect the "spirit" of the 
books. Yes, Hermione is a bit of a heroine and Ron is sort of a comic 
relief but the films have been good. I think my only real issue is 
that sometimes they cut out a scene but then but something else in 
that was not in the book. I will say however, that everything I have 
read in interviews with JKR and the filmmakers they have reiterated 
that she reads each version of the script. Since she wrote the books 
and is happy with the films - why shouldn't I be.

Yes Peter Jackson did a good job with LOTR BUT...
1. True LOTR fans can pick apart his changes (I have a friend who is 
a die-hard Tolkien fan and said several of the key things changed but 
I read the books too long ago to remember)
2. The LOTR storyline takes place over a couple of years not 7 and 
the characters are mostly grown up. I think it would be difficult to 
use the same actors for the children and make the movies in a 2 year 
timespan where the kids go from 11 year olds to 18 year olds. 
Children just change so much in that time period that I personally 
don't think it would work. As it is they are filming them pretty 
close to being back to back and if all 7 are made with Daniel, Emma 
and Rupert - I think that will be so cool as it will be like watching 
Harry, Hermione and Ron grow up.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Don't get me wrong I LOVED the LOTR films 
and have probably watched them close to if not more than the HP 
series DVDs but after #1 I forced myself to repeat over and over 
during the trailers prior to say "this is not the book and JKR loved 
it". It works for me. Anyway, sorry so many folks are going to not 
see this one. I think it will be truly exciting and have my tickets, 
am pulling the boys out of school and going to watch it with an open 
mind.

Theresa







From sherriola at earthlink.net  Fri Nov  4 20:15:00 2005
From: sherriola at earthlink.net (Sherry Gomes)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 12:15:00 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: GoF movie
In-Reply-To: <dkge01+okh7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <003a01c5e17c$70af5420$0400a8c0@pensive>

I guess I watch movies very differently.  because i can't see them, they are
still all about story to me.  Plot and character.  i am a die hard Tolkien
fan by the way, and there were several things that disturbed me about the
movies, though after listening to the commentaries, I can understand them
from a film maker's perspective. Well, except for one of them.  But I feel
like the story in the HP movies gets lost to the look and the effects.  As
to the idea that if JKR likes them why shouldn't I ... well, everyone views
or reads an art form differently.  many HP fans don't like what JKR did with
things in her books.  i may not like the way they end.  We have that right
to feel that way about the books or the movies.  So far, JKR has never
disappointed me, so I'm positive the end of her series won't disappoint
either.  But the movies, for me, have steadily gotten away from what I read
as the spirit of the books.  maybe it's just the difference in that I don't
have a visual image of the story at all.

sherry


-----Original Message-----
From: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Theresa
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 11:49 AM
To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: GoF movie


--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Sherry Gomes" <sherriola at e...> 
wrote:
>
> I hope that growing up right now, is some kid who will be a great 
movie
> director someday and will take on a project of redoing all the HP 
movies.
> somewhat in the way Jackson did LOTR.  sure, those weren't perfect 
for
> everything, but in general, he did a wonderful job because he 
wanted to
> honor Tolkien's work.  Maybe, someday, someone will feel like that 
about the
> Potter books and we might get some truly fine movies.  POA movie 
was so
> disappointing to me, and I actually fell asleep during the DVD!  I 
think
> I'll skip GOF so as not to feel so disappointed.
> 
> Sherry
>
Though there have been some things I have thought could have been 
done better or wondered why something was left out. I really have 
been impressed that the films IMHO do reflect the "spirit" of the 
books. Yes, Hermione is a bit of a heroine and Ron is sort of a comic 
relief but the films have been good. I think my only real issue is 
that sometimes they cut out a scene but then but something else in 
that was not in the book. I will say however, that everything I have 
read in interviews with JKR and the filmmakers they have reiterated 
that she reads each version of the script. Since she wrote the books 
and is happy with the films - why shouldn't I be.

Yes Peter Jackson did a good job with LOTR BUT...
1. True LOTR fans can pick apart his changes (I have a friend who is 
a die-hard Tolkien fan and said several of the key things changed but 
I read the books too long ago to remember)
2. The LOTR storyline takes place over a couple of years not 7 and 
the characters are mostly grown up. I think it would be difficult to 
use the same actors for the children and make the movies in a 2 year 
timespan where the kids go from 11 year olds to 18 year olds. 
Children just change so much in that time period that I personally 
don't think it would work. As it is they are filming them pretty 
close to being back to back and if all 7 are made with Daniel, Emma 
and Rupert - I think that will be so cool as it will be like watching 
Harry, Hermione and Ron grow up.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Don't get me wrong I LOVED the LOTR films 
and have probably watched them close to if not more than the HP 
series DVDs but after #1 I forced myself to repeat over and over 
during the trailers prior to say "this is not the book and JKR loved 
it". It works for me. Anyway, sorry so many folks are going to not 
see this one. I think it will be truly exciting and have my tickets, 
am pulling the boys out of school and going to watch it with an open 
mind.

Theresa







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From DANCERWH86 at aol.com  Sat Nov  5 15:48:56 2005
From: DANCERWH86 at aol.com (Lindsay!!)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 15:48:56 -0000
Subject: GoF movie
In-Reply-To: <259.2e9ffa.309d048d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <dkik98+pkne@eGroups.com>

 As a filmmaker and screenwriter (aspiring at least), I thought I 
would throw my two cents into this. Adaptations are perhaps the 
hardest things in the world to do mainly because they're are always 
people who want one thing or another left in or taken out. Everyone's 
always going to have a different perception of what is going to make 
the movie as good as the book. I personally think that adaptations 
are best realized when the writer of the screenplay is the writer of 
the book.

For example look at the film version of Interview with the Vampire. 
Anne Rice wrote the screenplay herself. This does not mean that it 
was one hundred percent true to the book (she cut out a lot of 
subplots and enhanced some other ones). But the fact that she wrote 
it did add some credence for fans. It would be hard for her to screw 
up her own characters. Now JKR has expressed satisfaction with the 
films as some other people said so clearly she agrees with the 
changes and what's cut out and what's added (we all know she objected 
to some of Cuaron's suggestions on PoA). She cannot be expected to 
write the screenplays herself between the time table of writing the 
books and I Don't know that she has ever expressed an interest in 
doing so. I'm sure if she did want to write them herself then she 
could have waited to sell the rights of the books until after they 
were all written (also I have a feeling  she has script approval 
anyway)

This brings up another issue that I know has been discussed here 
before, but I do wish to reiterate it and add my own two cents once 
more to it. Books are not films and films are not books. The film 
medium is never going to capture a book one hundred percent. In film 
things are meant to be shown and not described. You can't just have 
characters on screen describing what's going on and talking non-stop. 
So rather than Ron saying I'm mad for example it has to be shown by 
him pouting (this is a random example I'm not really taking it from a 
specific movie). It takes longer to show and emotion or anything 
really than to write about it so when you have a very large book it's 
inevitable that things are going to need to be cut out.

I doubt it will ever be any better than it is now. If it is made 
again I would bet even money that to put in what people have qualms 
about would lead to cutting out other details. Sure GOF could be made 
four hours long, but then there would be tedious moments that while 
fun to read are not fun to watch. Also, it would be quite hard to 
make a film that long with children because the shooting schedule 
would be a nightmare and the same with breaking it into two movies. 

Yes, things have been cut out of PoA and GoF, but it's nothing that 
can't be rectified in the future. It seems as if they have treated 
the Mauraders in a pretty low key way (it was very subtle, but Remus 
made it pretty well known that he knew about the map and what it was 
at the end of PoA), but they can insert that later possibly in OotP 
with the Penseive or Harry could even reference it on screen without 
it having to go into great detail (it is still possible stuff 
happened off screen--He could be like oh Remus or SIrius told me 
about whne the were in school). It isn't the detail that most fans of 
the books want, but the details in movies are meant to be in the 
shots so other stuff has to be cut out.

Lindsay
> Sherry wrote:
> 
> I hope  that growing up right now, is some kid who will be a great 
movie
> director  someday and will take on a project of redoing all the HP 
movies.
> somewhat  in the way Jackson did LOTR.  sure, those weren't 
perfect  for
> everything, but in general, he did a wonderful job because he 
wanted  to
> honor Tolkien's work.  Maybe, someday, someone will feel like that  
about the
> Potter books and we might get some truly fine movies.  POA  movie 
was so
> disappointing to me, and I actually fell asleep during the  DVD!  I 
think
> I'll skip GOF so as not to feel so  disappointed.
> 
> Sherry








From sherriola at earthlink.net  Sat Nov  5 16:00:59 2005
From: sherriola at earthlink.net (Sherry Gomes)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 08:00:59 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: GoF movie
In-Reply-To: <dkik98+pkne@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <004a01c5e222$1e6295f0$0400a8c0@pensive>

Those are very good points, and I do understand them.  But to use your own
points, it would have taken two lines of dialog for Sirius and Lupin to
explain how they became animagi and why.  of course, most likely in the end,
it won't be important to the overall series, but it was disappointing,
because it leaves out so many people's motivations even for things later in
the series.

I think one of the best adaptations of a book to movie ever was to Kill a
Mockingbird.  there were things left out, but the true story was there, the
characters beautifully done, the wisdom and nobility of Atticus portrayed
exceptionally well.  So, it can be done.  oh well.  I guess a fantasy series
is meant to be a visual movie anyway, not really a story.  But I won't miss
anything by missing the movie, because I want story and character.

sherry




From DANCERWH86 at aol.com  Sat Nov  5 16:18:40 2005
From: DANCERWH86 at aol.com (Lindsay!!)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 16:18:40 -0000
Subject: GoF movie
In-Reply-To: <004a01c5e222$1e6295f0$0400a8c0@pensive>
Message-ID: <dkim10+of86@eGroups.com>

Sherry wrote:
<<<<> it would have taken two lines of dialog for Sirius and Lupin to
> explain how they became animagi and why.  of course, most likely in 
the end,
> it won't be important to the overall series, but it was 
disappointing,
> because it leaves out so many people's motivations even for things 
later in
> the series.>>>>
 
 As far as the motivations for later, I think that is exactly why it 
was left out. Just like Peter Jackson moved the "proper" end of two 
towers to the third movie so that it would he fresh in the viewers 
mind, I have a feeling the Mauraders will be brought up when it is 
more relevant to "current events." When these motivations come up 
that's when they'll be explained. It's just the nature of cinema. 
Theoretically each film needs to be stand alone or earlier events 
need to be reference when necessary. The studios want viewers who 
haven't read the books. That's their target audience really becuase 
they know the general fan base is a given to go. So they want people 
who aren't going to sit through all the little details that aren't 
relevant until let's say the 5th movie. 

> >>>I think one of the best adaptations of a book to movie ever was 
to Kill a
> Mockingbird.  there were things left out, but the true story was 
there, the
> characters beautifully done, the wisdom and nobility of Atticus 
portrayed
> exceptionally well.  So, it can be done.  oh well.  I guess a 
fantasy series
> is meant to be a visual movie anyway, not really a story.  But I 
won't miss
> anything by missing the movie, because I want story and 
character.>>>

This is definitely true and Horton Foote is one of the best 
adapatationists that probably ever existed. I'll make no argument 
there. But while it wasn't probably completely obvious because it 
isn't as "big" and action-y of a movie, Mockingbird did change to be 
much more showing and not telling. Things that are spelled out in the 
book are shown in much greater verbal detail (Scout does not narrate 
the movie nearly as much as the book)are shown with much subtler 
images but are still perceived the same way. The scale of Harry 
Potter and the length of the books (Mockingbird is relatively short) 
make it much more difficult. Even with the things left in, 
Mockingbird could have still fit in the two hour time frame (most 
things cut from that movie were cut because of censors and what have 
you not time). But all movies are meant to be primarily visual so if 
they can wait to the pensieve moment in OotP to show what the 
Marauders were about I bet they will. There is still developed story 
and character in the films, in my opinion, it's just presented 
differently. 

Trust me I hate big movies as a rule, HP is the only series of films 
aside from Star Wars I've ever followed (I haven't even seen all of 
LotR). I'm definitely one for the quiet drama of it all...But I 
personally wish Cauron had continued directing because with him you 
have a good chance of getting those tender, dramatic moments captured 
well because he is a master at that. 

Lindsay







From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sat Nov  5 23:07:23 2005
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 23:07:23 -0000
Subject: GoF movie
In-Reply-To: <dkge01+okh7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dkjdvb+a72h@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Theresa" <anmsmom333 at c...> wrote:

Theresa:
> Yes Peter Jackson did a good job with LOTR BUT...
> 1. True LOTR fans can pick apart his changes (I have a friend who 
is 
> a die-hard Tolkien fan and said several of the key things changed 
but 
> I read the books too long ago to remember)

Geoff:
I am a diehard LOTR fan - I first read the book about 1955-56 and 
have read it upwards of 30 times in total. Initially, I was taken 
aback by one or two of the changes Peter Jackson wrought but after 
hearing him talk about the reasoning on the DVD background discs and 
watching the films several times, I'm giving them the thumbs up. 
After the cartoon version debacle in 1978, I always said that I would 
never watch a film verison; I have lived to eat my words.

Theresa:
> 2. The LOTR storyline takes place over a couple of years not 7 and 
> the characters are mostly grown up. 

Geoff:
Actually, the LOTR storyline spreads over 18 years. The Birthday 
Party is in the year 3001 Third Age and the fall of Barad-dur in 3019 
so there is no real comparison with date ranges.....






From artsylynda at aol.com  Sun Nov  6 17:19:45 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 12:19:45 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] GoF Movie
Message-ID: <22c.83fda5.309f9531@aol.com>

I would have LOVED to have a 4 hour (with intermission) GoF movie,  or two 
movies, BUT. . .the problem is, they're dealing with growing kids.   I read an 
interview recently where David Heyman said Dan changed so much during  this 
film that the first scenes they filmed, which took place in the middle of  the 
film, have him round-faced and young looking, and then his face suddenly  became 
more angular, so the beginning of the film, you have "old" Dan, then  "young" 
Dan, then "old" Dan, then "young" Dan, etc.  Filming the scenes "in  order" 
would make so much more sense when working with growing kids, but it just  
isn't logistically possible.  Filming two films at once, as they're doing  for 
"Pirates of the Caribbean" would be nice, but you'd have the same problem,  the 
kids aging erratically.  It just can't be done with kids.  I read  somewhere 
that they had to change the size of some sets/props because the kids  grew 
between shots on that set or with that prop (whichever -- I can't remember  at the 
moment).  Dan's overdue for a growth spurt -- he's only 5'5" tall  right now, 
and he's 16 and hasn't really had a big growth spurt yet that I know  of.  OoP 
could be interestingly difficult to film if he suddenly  shoots up as Matt 
Lewis did, fortunately BETWEEN films, apparently.  With  Harry in nearly every 
scene, a growth spurt of Dan's could cause a lot of  problems!  But I hope he 
gets one soon anyway!  :-D
 
I have my tickets already for two showing of GoF and am going to  check into 
the IMAX schedule -- can't wait to see this movie!!


Lynda

"The cat's among the pixies now." Mrs. Figg,  OoP



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From sherriola at earthlink.net  Sun Nov  6 17:24:11 2005
From: sherriola at earthlink.net (Sherry Gomes)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 09:24:11 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] GoF Movie
In-Reply-To: <22c.83fda5.309f9531@aol.com>
Message-ID: <004701c5e2f6$e802b190$0400a8c0@pensive>

I remember in one of the first two movies, noticing Dan's voice changing
back and forth too.  In some parts he'd sound older, and in other parts
younger.  I'd think, oh they filmed that part later than that other part,
just going on his voice.

Sherry


-----Original Message-----
From: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of artsylynda at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 9:20 AM
To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [HPFGU-Movie] GoF Movie


I would have LOVED to have a 4 hour (with intermission) GoF movie,  or two 
movies, BUT. . .the problem is, they're dealing with growing kids.   I read
an 
interview recently where David Heyman said Dan changed so much during  this 
film that the first scenes they filmed, which took place in the middle of
the 
film, have him round-faced and young looking, and then his face suddenly
became 
more angular, so the beginning of the film, you have "old" Dan, then
"young" 
Dan, then "old" Dan, then "young" Dan, etc.  Filming the scenes "in  order" 
would make so much more sense when working with growing kids, but it just  
isn't logistically possible.  Filming two films at once, as they're doing
for 
"Pirates of the Caribbean" would be nice, but you'd have the same problem,
the 
kids aging erratically.  It just can't be done with kids.  I read  somewhere

that they had to change the size of some sets/props because the kids  grew 
between shots on that set or with that prop (whichever -- I can't remember
at the 
moment).  Dan's overdue for a growth spurt -- he's only 5'5" tall  right
now, 
and he's 16 and hasn't really had a big growth spurt yet that I know  of.
OoP 
could be interestingly difficult to film if he suddenly  shoots up as Matt 
Lewis did, fortunately BETWEEN films, apparently.  With  Harry in nearly
every 
scene, a growth spurt of Dan's could cause a lot of  problems!  But I hope
he 
gets one soon anyway!  :-D
 
I have my tickets already for two showing of GoF and am going to  check into

the IMAX schedule -- can't wait to see this movie!!


Lynda

"The cat's among the pixies now." Mrs. Figg,  OoP



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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From Mhochberg at aol.com  Sun Nov  6 21:58:32 2005
From: Mhochberg at aol.com (Mhochberg at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 16:58:32 EST
Subject: GoF movie
Message-ID: <23a.886a25.309fd688@aol.com>

 
 
In a message dated 11/6/2005 3:14:11 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, "Geoff  
Bannister" <gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk>
writes:

Initially, I was taken aback by one or two of the changes Peter Jackson  
wrought but after 
hearing him talk about the reasoning on the DVD  background discs and 
watching the films several times, I'm giving them the  thumbs up. 


I love those DVDs! I've watched and listened to all the commentaries at  
least once and am working my way through them again.
 
I'd love to have the same treatment for the Harry Potter films! I've  already 
started designing my own Dark Detectors based on the photos I've seen of  
Moody's classroom. What fun!

 
~~~Mary
It's kinda fun to do the impossible.    --Walt  Disney


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Mon Nov  7 04:49:33 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 23:49:33 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] GOF Premiere
In-Reply-To: <BF8EFE98.13DB%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <BF94470D.1488%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>

I am still working my way through the Leicester Square premiere of GOF. How
exciting! The dragon is great! Wish I was there.
Dan seemed soooooo hyped up and excited to be there. He?s such a great
interview. You can tell he?s so well versed in it now.
I love the comments from Mike Newell about Dan ?the rat? poking fun at  him.
And how he breaks out into giggling fits on set and isn?t able to stop. His
?handler? has to take him aside and give him a ?talking to?.
And Rupert?s comment about looking calm on the outside but inside is
crapping himself!!!!!! He must be petrified. One always hears how shy and
quiet he is.
I guess everyone was tired of their long hair in GOF because all the guys
seem to have at least trimmed back their hair. :-)
I didn?t realize that Tom Felton wears a wig as Draco!?! Although in the
clips I?ve seen of GOF his hair looked a bit less natural. It seemed like
his real hair in POA.
The live feed I was watching was kind of small so I couldn?t tell who was
accompanying who. I was hoping to catch a glimpse of the trios parents.
It must be pretty amazing for the actors (and behind-the-scenes crew) to see
the film in it?s entirety for the first time tonight. There is so much
post-production/CG involved in this type of film, it must just blow their
minds to see how it comes together in the end.

So when does the film actually come out in theatres in England? Tonight?
In the US we have to wait  until the 18th! I?ll be counting the days!

Valerie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From tkimel at mail.rochester.edu  Mon Nov  7 05:07:01 2005
From: tkimel at mail.rochester.edu (Taryn Kimel)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 00:07:01 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] GOF Premiere
In-Reply-To: <BF94470D.1488%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>
References: <BF94470D.1488%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <436EE0F5.4040905@mail.rochester.edu>

Tom doesn't wear a wig.  His hair is dyed.

Valerie Flowe wrote:

>I didnt realize that Tom Felton wears a wig as Draco!?! Although in the
>clips Ive seen of GOF his hair looked a bit less natural. It seemed like
>his real hair in POA.
>  
>




From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Mon Nov  7 05:34:17 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 00:34:17 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] GOF Premiere
In-Reply-To: <BF94470D.1488%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <BF945189.148A%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>

OK, so not to be catty, but WHAT was UP with Robert Pattinson?s hair at the
premiere?!!! Give it a comb, dude!
And surely Rupert could?ve found a nicer pair o? jeans and shoes?! :-)
Dan looked rather dapper in that long green velvet coat.
And Emma looked adorable in her vintage dress...why did she change it to the
black one later, I wonder?
Clemence...quite lovely in her vintage dress...and Katie...the look was
definitely ankle length and chiffon-y for the girls and velvet for the guys.
Interesting!

Valerie, with her unsolicited Joan Rivers commentary :-)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Mon Nov  7 05:49:34 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 00:49:34 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] GOF Premiere
In-Reply-To: <436EE0F5.4040905@mail.rochester.edu>
Message-ID: <BF94551E.1490%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>

At the premiere the interviewer asked him about his short-cropped hair and
if he has to start growing it out for OoP. He said ?No; luckily I get to
wear a wig, so can keep my hair short?  That?s why I?m thinking in the first
3 movies he dyed it and in this last one wore a wig.
Val

On 11/7/05 12:07 AM, "Taryn Kimel" <tkimel at mail.rochester.edu> wrote:

> Tom doesn't wear a wig.  His hair is dyed.
> 
> Valerie Flowe wrote:
> 
>> >I didn?t realize that Tom Felton wears a wig as Draco!?! Although in the
>> >clips I?ve seen of GOF his hair looked a bit less natural. It seemed like
>> >his real hair in POA.
>> >  
>> >
> 
> 
> 
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From joxy at inet.karoo.co.uk  Mon Nov  7 20:14:48 2005
From: joxy at inet.karoo.co.uk (joxy)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 20:14:48 -0000
Subject: No subject
In-Reply-To: <BF94470D.1488%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <dkocjo+m88q@eGroups.com>

I don't think it is at all likely that R Grint really described, in
the way you quote, his internal feelings while looking calm on the
outside; but whether he did or not you should not have reported the
word here.
In case anyone now thinks that English people regularly use that
expression - they don't!






From mailbox1 at toughguy.net  Mon Nov  7 06:40:13 2005
From: mailbox1 at toughguy.net (mailbox1 at toughguy.net)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 06:40:13 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Formatting was GOF Premiere
References: <BF94470D.1488%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <005901c5e366$5da9b6e0$758687d9@gateway>


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Valerie Flowe 

  >>interview. You can tell he?s so well versed in it now.
  I love the comments from Mike Newell about Dan ?the rat? poking fun at  him.
  And how he breaks out into giggling fits on set and isn?t able to stop. His
  ?handler? has to take him aside and give him a ?talking to?.
  And Rupert?s comment about looking calm on the outside but inside is
  crapping himself!!!!!! He must be petrified. One always hears how shy and
  quiet he is.

  What are the little 1s, 2s and 3s ??  Please?




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






From robert at robertgoodman.net  Tue Nov  8 03:42:10 2005
From: robert at robertgoodman.net (Robert Goodman)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 22:42:10 -0500
Subject: first 2 GoF movie reviews i've seen online
Message-ID: <20051108034211.SSRG17682.ibm60aec.bellsouth.net@MOBILEROBERT>

2 early reviews for GoF, one obviously a muggle teen, one a fully grown
muggle. Links to them here:
 
http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=21652
http://moviesonline.ca/movienews_4746.html
 
 
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







From swartell at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  8 11:48:28 2005
From: swartell at yahoo.com (Sue Wartell)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 03:48:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Formatting was GOF Premiere
In-Reply-To: <005901c5e366$5da9b6e0$758687d9@gateway>
Message-ID: <20051108114828.64623.qmail@web53201.mail.yahoo.com>


They are Quotation marks and apostrophes.  Apparently
Valerie's mail package encodes those characters in
ways that your mailer (and mine) recognize as
superscripted numbers rather than the punctuation
marks she typed.

It looks like the superscript 1 is an apostrophe ('),
super 2 is closing double quotes (") and super 3 is
opening double quotes (").  (That may look funny
because the keyboard doesn't distinguish between the
open and close on double quotes - the software of the
word processer makes the guess about what you intend.)

Sue

--- mailbox1 at toughguy.net wrote:

>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Valerie Flowe 
> 
>   >>interview. You can tell hes so well versed in
> it now.
>   I love the comments from Mike Newell about Dan
> the rat poking fun at  him.
>   And how he breaks out into giggling fits on set
> and isnt able to stop. His
>   handler has to take him aside and give him a
> talking to.
>   And Ruperts comment about looking calm on the
> outside but inside is
>   crapping himself!!!!!! He must be petrified. One
> always hears how shy and
>   quiet he is.
> 
>   What are the little 1s, 2s and 3s ??  Please?
> 
> 
> 



		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com



From kesa101 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  8 14:26:48 2005
From: kesa101 at yahoo.com (Carolyn)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 06:26:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Formatting was GOF Premiere
In-Reply-To: <005901c5e366$5da9b6e0$758687d9@gateway>
Message-ID: <20051108142649.19813.qmail@web50105.mail.yahoo.com>

I noticed those, too!  I think they're suppoes to be "quotes" - what font are you using, Val?

mailbox1 at toughguy.net wrote:
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Valerie Flowe 

  >>interview. You can tell he?s so well versed in it now.
  I love the comments from Mike Newell about Dan ?the rat? poking fun at  him.
  And how he breaks out into giggling fits on set and isn?t able to stop. His
  ?handler? has to take him aside and give him a ?talking to?.
  And Rupert?s comment about looking calm on the outside but inside is
  crapping himself!!!!!! He must be petrified. One always hears how shy and
  quiet he is.

  What are the little 1s, 2s and 3s ??  Please?




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From thekrenz at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  8 16:20:15 2005
From: thekrenz at yahoo.com (thekrenz)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 16:20:15 -0000
Subject: No subject
In-Reply-To: <dkocjo+m88q@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dkqj7v+c0ic@eGroups.com>

Actually, he did describe his feelings exactly the way it was quoted 
in an interview at the premiere.  It was on the live feed I saw on AOL.


-- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "joxy" <joxy at i...> wrote:
>
> I don't think it is at all likely that R Grint really described, in
> the way you quote, his internal feelings while looking calm on the
> outside; but whether he did or not you should not have reported the
> word here.
> In case anyone now thinks that English people regularly use that
> expression - they don't!
>







From kesa101 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  8 16:44:22 2005
From: kesa101 at yahoo.com (Carolyn)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:44:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] (unknown)
In-Reply-To: <dkqj7v+c0ic@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051108164422.7719.qmail@web50110.mail.yahoo.com>

Yeah, I saw it streamed on WB's site (via a link from Mugglenet) and I heard it as well.  I found it quite amusing, actually.  

thekrenz <thekrenz at yahoo.com> wrote:Actually, he did describe his feelings exactly the way it was quoted 
in an interview at the premiere.  It was on the live feed I saw on AOL.


-- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "joxy" <joxy at i...> wrote:
>
> I don't think it is at all likely that R Grint really described, in
> the way you quote, his internal feelings while looking calm on the
> outside; but whether he did or not you should not have reported the
> word here.
> In case anyone now thinks that English people regularly use that
> expression - they don't!
>






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From thekrenz at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  8 18:04:22 2005
From: thekrenz at yahoo.com (thekrenz)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 18:04:22 -0000
Subject: (unknown)
In-Reply-To: <20051108164422.7719.qmail@web50110.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dkqpb6+jlc5@eGroups.com>

I found it amusing as well, but I suppose that speaks loudly that we 
all have very different senses of humor!


--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Carolyn <kesa101 at y...> wrote:
>
> Yeah, I saw it streamed on WB's site (via a link from Mugglenet) 
and I heard it as well.  I found it quite amusing, actually.  
> 
> thekrenz <thekrenz at y...> wrote:Actually, he did describe his 
feelings exactly the way it was quoted 
> in an interview at the premiere.  It was on the live feed I saw on 
AOL.
> 
> 
> -- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "joxy" <joxy at i...> wrote:
> >
> > I don't think it is at all likely that R Grint really described, 
in
> > the way you quote, his internal feelings while looking calm on 
the
> > outside; but whether he did or not you should not have reported 
the
> > word here.
> > In case anyone now thinks that English people regularly use that
> > expression - they don't!
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
> 
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary 
material from posts to which you're replying!
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From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Thu Nov 10 06:18:17 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 01:18:17 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Formatting was GOF Premiere
In-Reply-To: <20051108142649.19813.qmail@web50105.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BF985059.14F2%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>

Hmmm..not sure. Some sort of generic font that my computer defaults to.
Sorry for the confusion with the characters switching!
Val

On 11/8/05 9:26 AM, "Carolyn" <kesa101 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I noticed those, too!  I think they're suppoes to be "quotes" - what font are
> you using, Val?
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Thu Nov 10 06:26:17 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 01:26:17 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] (unknown)
In-Reply-To: <20051108164422.7719.qmail@web50110.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BF985239.14F5%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>

Sorry if some took offense at my reportage! I found it amusing as well...he
is after all a teenager. Typical teenage-speak, in my opinion.
I was just impressed at how much he was speaking. I?ve never heard him say
so much! Usually Dan and Emma take over the trio interviews, and he just
says ?Yeah, it was cool!?
Val

On 11/8/05 11:44 AM, "Carolyn" <kesa101 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Yeah, I saw it streamed on WB's site (via a link from Mugglenet) and I heard
> it as well.  I found it quite amusing, actually.
> 
> thekrenz <thekrenz at yahoo.com> wrote:Actually, he did describe his feelings
> exactly the way it was quoted
> in an interview at the premiere.  It was on the live feed I saw on AOL.
> 
> 
> -- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "joxy" <joxy at i...> wrote:
>> >
>> > I don't think it is at all likely that R Grint really described, in
>> > the way you quote, his internal feelings while looking calm on the
>> > outside; but whether he did or not you should not have reported the
>> > word here.
>> > In case anyone now thinks that English people regularly use that
>> > expression - they don't!
>> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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From joj at rochester.rr.com  Thu Nov 10 12:56:30 2005
From: joj at rochester.rr.com (joj)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 07:56:30 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] (unknown)
References: <BF985239.14F5%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <001101c5e5f6$2bbe3b50$783fcc45@bumbargey3ogmz>

Well, I don't see why you should have to apologize.  Rupert said it, not
you, and it was very harmless regardless.
Joj



Sorry if some took offense at my reportage! I found it amusing as well...he
is after all a teenager. Typical teenage-speak, in my opinion.
I was just impressed at how much he was speaking. Ive never heard him say
so much! Usually Dan and Emma take over the trio interviews, and he just
says Yeah, it was cool!
Val


 "joxy" <joxy at i...> wrote:
>> > I don't think it is at all likely that R Grint really described, in
>> > the way you quote, his internal feelings while looking calm on the
>> > outside; but whether he did or not you should not have reported the
>> > word here.
>> > In case anyone now thinks that English people regularly use that
>> > expression - they don't!




From faura2002 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 10 22:25:45 2005
From: faura2002 at yahoo.com (faura2002)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 22:25:45 -0000
Subject: GOF Premiere
In-Reply-To: <BF94470D.1488%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <dl0hd9+775l@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Valerie Flowe <valerie.flowe at v...>
wrote:
 
> So when does the film actually come out in theatres in England? Tonight?
> In the US we have to wait  until the 18th! I?ll be counting the days!
> 
> Valerie
> 
> 



i'm in the philippines, and the movie comes out on wednesday, nov 16! yay!







From bonbonjm at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 11 03:47:04 2005
From: bonbonjm at yahoo.com (Bonnie)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 03:47:04 -0000
Subject: Hello from Tampa
Message-ID: <dl147o+o82t@eGroups.com>

I can't believe that GoF is only a week away.  I still have one set of 
school robes to finish.  Anyone else here from around the Tampa area?  
Do you know of any local line parties?









From bunniqula at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 10:11:11 2005
From: bunniqula at gmail.com (Dina Lerret)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 02:11:11 -0800
Subject: Hello from Tampa
In-Reply-To: <dl147o+o82t@eGroups.com>
References: <dl147o+o82t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1a2738400511110211y5144c969lb532b5455649445f@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/10/05, Bonnie <bonbonjm at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I can't believe that GoF is only a week away.  I still have one set of
> school robes to finish.  Anyone else here from around the Tampa area?
> Do you know of any local line parties?

Clearwater.  Hm, POA had a gathering at Channelside's IMAX, over by
the Florida Aquarium and St. Pete Times Forum, if anything, then
Channelside would be your best bet.  Personally, I'll probably just
end up at TriCity Plaza because it's closest.

Heh, gotta love all the street construction work [how many *years*
still going on] in parts of downtown Tampa, a combination of detours
and one-way streets.

Dina



From bonbonjm at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 11 12:07:43 2005
From: bonbonjm at yahoo.com (Bonnie)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:07:43 -0000
Subject: Hello from Tampa
In-Reply-To: <1a2738400511110211y5144c969lb532b5455649445f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dl21if+itsh@eGroups.com>

> Heh, gotta love all the street construction work [how many *years*
> still going on] in parts of downtown Tampa, a combination of detours
> and one-way streets.
> 
> Dina
>

ha, no kidding.  And just when you have it figured out, they change it.






From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Sat Nov 12 17:52:46 2005
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 17:52:46 -0000
Subject: "Making of GoF" from Tribute TV
Message-ID: <dl5a5e+dqkd@eGroups.com>

If you all haven't seen this, I'd suggest RUNNING to do so!!

http://www.tribute.ca/player/enhancePlayer.asp?
isWM=1&isQT=0&filePath=Trailers&fileName=gobletoffiresf

This is a 16-minute segment from TributeTV, a "Making of GoF" thing 
which has numerous clips from the film and fantastic interviews with 
D/R/E as well as Mike Newell, Katie Leung, Robert Pattinson, Clemence 
Poesey, and the guy who plays Krum.  

It has me really psyched to see the film Friday.

(If the link doesn't work, go to TLC and check under Nov. 11.)

Siriusly Snapey Susan







From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Sat Nov 12 23:57:22 2005
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 23:57:22 -0000
Subject: On-line GOF review
Message-ID: <dl5vh2+jlgd@eGroups.com>

There is now a review online plus a gallery of photos etc. at 
the "Empire" magazine website:

www.empireonline.co.uk

with a link from the home page.






From saundradj at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 14 01:06:59 2005
From: saundradj at hotmail.com (Saundra)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 01:06:59 -0000
Subject: The US Premiere of GoF in NYC
Message-ID: <dl8nvj+mtqh@eGroups.com>

Hey Gang,

Well I made it to the premiere yesterday. It was wild as you could
imagine. Having only seen movie premieres on the telly, I did'nt know
quite what to expect but crowds of screaming teenagers. There were
folks there from all over (China, Austrailia, Connecticut,
Pittsburgh, Atlanta just to name a few).

I wasn't in the very front (I was about 3-4 rows back in a crowd that
was probably 15 deep). I was standing with two moms that had come
with their teens. One said I could also claim her daughter if
something happened where I needed a child.

Of course the media was all over the event inciting the fans to
scream and scream for HP. Emmerson from MuggleNet was there working
the crowds as well.

Thank goodness we had great weatherin fact the more crowded it got
the warmer I became. Just when you couldn't stand the wait a minute
longer, here comes Jamie Wyatt(Crabbe)! It actually takes quite a
long while for the actors to make their way through the press line
before they are brought across the street to the fans. So for a long
time all we really see is their backs unless they briefly turn
around and wave.

So who did I get to see.... in oder of appearance: Jamie Waylett, 
David Gleeson (Mad Eye Moody), Katie Leung (Cho Chang), James and 
Oliver Phelps (Fred & George), Matthew Lewis (Neville), Emma Watson
(Hermione), Rupert Grint (Ron), Daniel Radcliff (Harry) and Jason
Issacs (Mr Malfoy).

I was on the look out for Alan Rickman for but didn't see him
and I later learned that he didn't attend the premiere. The actors
that played Cedric, Krum and Voldemort were there but I didn't see
them, they didn't walk the line.

I managed to get Katie's signature but they rushed Emmma, Rupert and
Dan by so quickly that only a few fans in the very front was able to
get Emma & Rupert's signature's. Getting near Dan was impossible.

Then it was all over as "quickly" as it had began. I give my email
address to a few fellow fans with digital cameras and will share
photos with you all.

I decided not to go the Live MuggleNet/Leaky Cauldron Podcast at the
Union Square Barns & Noble. I was happy with the actors I saw at the
theater and I was very tired so home sounded real good to me.

That's it until the Order of the Phoenix US Premiere.

Saundra (determinedflygirl)









From CMeehan1 at aol.com  Mon Nov 14 02:21:54 2005
From: CMeehan1 at aol.com (CMeehan1 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 21:21:54 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] The US Premiere of GoF in NYC
Message-ID: <237.12ed38f.30a94ec2@aol.com>

thanks for the report!  It would have been fun to be there!
 
Caroline


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From thekrenz at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 14 18:06:25 2005
From: thekrenz at yahoo.com (thekrenz)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 18:06:25 -0000
Subject: The US Premiere of GoF in NYC
In-Reply-To: <dl8nvj+mtqh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlajn2+6egm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Saundra" <saundradj at h...> wrote:
> I was on the look out for Alan Rickman for but didn't see him
> and I later learned that he didn't attend the premiere. 


I looked for Alan Rickman in the photos and footage from the UK 
premiere and didn't see him there either.  Is he filming another 
movie, or is there something else keeping him away from the premieres 
(like -heaven forbid- illness)?  Does anyone know?
Cyndi






From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Nov 14 18:38:34 2005
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 18:38:34 -0000
Subject: The US Premiere of GoF in NYC
In-Reply-To: <dlajn2+6egm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlalja+kb2u@eGroups.com>

Saundra wrote:
> > I was on the look out for Alan Rickman for but didn't see him

Cyndi:
> I looked for Alan Rickman in the photos and footage from the UK 
> premiere and didn't see him there either.  Is he filming another 
> movie, or is there something else keeping him away from the premieres 
> (like -heaven forbid- illness)?  Does anyone know?

SSSusan:
At least as far as I saw, Alan Rickman was never on the lists of 
confirmed attendees for either the London or NYC premieres, so it isn't 
as if he was a surprise no-show.  (IOW, I mean I know he's attended 
these in the past, but he was never listed as planning to attend this 
time.)

According to IMDB, he is currently filming "Nobel Son" with shooting 
having begun on Oct. 6th.  I don't know what his part is about, though, 
nor how sizable it is (or isn't).  He also just finished "Perfume" 
and "Snow Cake," so maybe he just wanted a break?

Siriusly Snapey Susan







From thebigapplecon at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 14 15:43:03 2005
From: thebigapplecon at yahoo.com (Zorikh Lequidre)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 07:43:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: US opening huge, Big Apple Expo expecting great turnout for Hogwarts boys!
Message-ID: <20051114154304.38738.qmail@web36312.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


The US Premiere of Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire at the Zifield Theater in New York City was a huge success and a front page news item. With Harrymania sweeping the city, the news from the Big Apple National Expo is bigger than ever!

 

Three boys from Hogwarts are coming to New York City for the opening of Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire!

 

To celebrate the opening weekend of the latest installment of the Harry Potter movie series, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, this November 18, 19, and 20, (Friday, Saturday, and Sunday), Devon Murray (Seamus Finnigan), Matthew Lewis (Neville Longbottom), and Jamie Waylett (Vincent Crabbe) will be present at the Big Apple Convention?s annual National Expo, the largest comic book/sci-fi/fantasy/pop-culture convention on the East Coast. This is a rare opportunity for fans to meet this many cast members from the popular movie series in New York City. They will be signing autographs and cheerfully greeting their fans all weekend.

 

Other guests at the convention include Carrie Fisher (Star Wars), Ray Park (Star Wars, Ep. I), Daniel Logan (Star Wars, Ep. II), Richard Hatch (Battlestar Galactica), Debbie Rochon (Troma Films), the Monkees? Peter Tork, and comic book writers and artists Neal Adams, Harvey Pekar, Dick Giordano, Adam Hughes, Michael Kaluta, Walter Simonson, and many, many more! 

 

There will also be the famous Big Apple Costume Contest on Sunday hosted by Captain Zorikh. This is looking to be the biggest National Expo ever!

 

The Big Apple Convention is located at the Penn Plaza Pavilion, at 401 7th Ave and 33rd St, right across the street from Penn Station in New York City. Tickets are $15 per day or $40 for all three days (with early admission on Friday).

 

For tickets, directions, and further information, go to http://www.bigapplecon.com

 

To contact the Big Apple Convention send e-mail to thebigapplecon at yahoo.com

 

Captain Zorikh
zorikh at juno.com

		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






From Mhochberg at aol.com  Wed Nov 16 02:28:49 2005
From: Mhochberg at aol.com (Mhochberg at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 21:28:49 EST
Subject: The US Premiere of GoF in NYC
Message-ID: <210.e36c6a1.30abf361@aol.com>

 
 
Congratulations, Saundra! You are so lucky to have been able to attend.  What 
fun!
 


~~~Mary
It's kinda fun to do the impossible.    --Walt  Disney


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From hp at plum.cream.org  Wed Nov 16 03:38:46 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 03:38:46 +0000
Subject: Admin-type reminder ahead of Friday
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051116024005.00b2e990@plum.cream.org>

The Mods don't pay too much attention to what goes on this list, mainly 
because it's fairly low-trafffic. However, this will definitely change 
quite dramatically over this weekend, when large numbers of infrequent 
posters will turn up and everyone will want to give their opinion on the 
new movie.

While I am not a Mod, but as a user who reads almost every message posted 
here (even though I've not posted anything for ages), I would like to 
request that everyone really should follow the fairly straightforward rules 
for posting.

I have no intention of getting personal or embarrassing anyone, but several 
recent messages (and indeed, almost all messages from at least one poster I 
can think of) have fallen foul of one or more of the most basic, simple 
rules set out in the Netiquette Tips which everyone here received when they 
first joined.

Here's a link (which will, of course, break up for most - if not all - 
people):
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Movie/files/Admin%20Files/Text-Ne 
tiquette-movie.txt (alternatively, from the font page, go to Files -> Admin 
Files -> netiquetteTIPS-Movie.htm for the HTML version).

In particular, I would like to remind members of the following (within the 
last week alone, there have been contraventions of each of these):

- No one-line posts please (e.g. posts which don't go beyond "metoo", or 
"LOL") - if you have nothing more to add, then an email  direct to the 
poster is usually a good idea (as there may be no other indication that 
anyone's read the original text), without clogging up the list and making 
life impossible for Digest readers;

- Use clear attributions (i.e. identify the poster by name or screen-name) 
of text to which you are responding, and trim the quoted text to the 
MINIMUM required for someone new to the thread to be able to understand 
what you mean;

- In particular, cut out the "signatures" at the end of posts to which 
you're replying (unless, of course, it's the .sig you're commenting 
upon...) AND the huge Yahoo-generated sig at the bottom of every post;

- Corollary of above: Don't "agree"/"disagree" with what someone else has 
said without making it clear with WHOM you're (dis)agreeing and WHAT 
statement you are (dis)agreeing with;

- DO NOT top-post! In other words, do not add your own comments at the top 
of a "reply" post: intersperse the original comments with your replies, 
making it clear in one way or another which is which. This way, you should 
naturally comply with the above rules by reading/deleting/typing as you go 
along;

- Read what other people have said before posting your own comments: this 
list (like all others) has a habit of having exactly the same comments 
coming up time and time and time again. It's boring, it's a waste of time 
and bandwidth and it's downright rude because it implies that some people 
really don't care what other people think - in particular, before posting a 
reply (especially factual corrections), please ensure that someone else 
hasn't already made the point you intend to make;

(There is one specific exception to the above: as each of the previous 
movies have been released, some of us - I can immediately think of at least 
three people - have posted our own detailed and complete reviews here; of 
course, these are likely to cover similar ground and so a certain amount of 
duplication is inevitable, but part of the point with our reviews is to 
write completely fresh perspectives, untainted by other opinions. For 
instance, I have kept myself as unspoiled as possible in terms of clips, 
interviews, etc, and haven't read a single review of the finished movie. I 
won't do that until after I've written my own some time on Friday. 
Incidentally, a suggestion: when posting a review, perhaps it would be a 
good idea to include (y)our name/identifier in the subject line, so that if 
discussion ensues, people can easily tell which one's which, rather than 
having a dozen different threads all entitled "GOF Review".)

Finally, before posting messages, please do two things; firstly, browse 
through your text for obvious typos, etc, and try to ensure that the text 
makes sense. Secondly, please make sure that the "Subject" is appropriate. 
In particular, Digest readers please change the title from "Digest #XYZ" to 
something more descriptive.  Not everyone is interested in all aspects of 
the movies, so please make the subject line clear enough to allow a certain 
amount of pre-filtering.

If we all follow these fairly simple rules of co-existence, the list will 
flow smoothly, and we can all enjoy the cut and thrust of exchanging 
opinions, however deep and meaningful or "fannish" as they may be, with a 
minimum of fuss and nastiness, and hopefully no misunderstandings.

I hope everyone enjoys the film whenever they see it, and I look forward to 
reading everyone's views, staring in, um, about 48 hours!

--
Richard, previously AKA GulPlum, who won't have time/opportunity to read 
this list until after the movie



From little_blue_pupooh at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 16 10:57:27 2005
From: little_blue_pupooh at yahoo.com (little_blue_pupooh)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 10:57:27 -0000
Subject: GOP Review
Message-ID: <dlf3an+jo08@eGroups.com>

The GOP opens in the Philippines today (Nov. 16) with a General 
Patronage rating. Personally, I think that the book is far better to 
its movie adaptation. I would like to point specific instances wherein 
the changes to the movie plot destroyed the spirit of the book though 
not entirely but significantly. These changes, though would not have 
much bearing on the movie, would have consequences or lapses in the 
next installment.








From little_blue_pupooh at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 16 11:14:05 2005
From: little_blue_pupooh at yahoo.com (little_blue_pupooh)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:14:05 -0000
Subject: GOP Review
Message-ID: <dlf49t+9tmb@eGroups.com>

The GOP opens in the Philippines today (Nov. 16) with a General 
Patronage rating. Personally, I find the book far better than its 
movie adaptation. Listed below are significant changes in the movie 
plot that had destroyed the book's spirit somewhat and that has 
possible consequences in the next movie.

1. Barty Crouch Jr's identity is also introduced though not divulged 
in the first part of the movie. In the book, his identity is slowly 
developed and introduced thus a spirit of suspense and thrill on how 
who Barty Crouch Jr is. 
2. The movie fails to mention important characters in the movie like 
Dobby, who helped Harry get the gilliweed, the elf of Barty Crouch 
and Percy, who replaced Crouch. Due to Percy's disappearance in the 
movie, it would be hard for the next installment to point out that 
Percy would not believe and support his own family and Dumbledore.

Here are some of my comments regarding the story line.

1.	The Crouches' characters were undeveloped
2.	Daniel is still a poor actor, though a cute and sexy one 
(especially when he was figuring out the message of the egg in the 
bathroom)
3.	I hate Dumbledore's acting ? he seems to be too energetic
4.	The movie is not as dark as the book
5.	It would be best if Hermione was ugly at the start and would 
become beautiful during the ball
6.	There was no mention of who won and what happened to the 
money afterwards
7.	There was no mention of Fudge's (or was it Barty) deals with 
the Weasley and goblins
8.	There was no mention of the missing ministry woman and how 
Arthur went to Moody's house before the start of the term

Any reactions
.










From sgarfio at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 16 18:54:57 2005
From: sgarfio at yahoo.com (Sherry Garfio)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 10:54:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] GOP Review
In-Reply-To: <dlf49t+9tmb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051116185457.95206.qmail@web53213.mail.yahoo.com>

--- little_blue_pupooh <little_blue_pupooh at yahoo.com> wrote:

> 6.	There was no mention of who won and what happened to the 
> money afterwards

Oooh, that one's going to be difficult to explain in a later film.  I assume
the twins are going to be in full production mode in OotP as they were in the
book.  Their inventions aren't much more than a fun diversion in OotP and will
probably be downplayed or ignored in the film, but they do become important in
HBP.  I suppose Harry could give them a startup loan/grant from his own funds,
with no need to clarify that his funds were increased by winning the
tournament, although I don't know where in the story that would occur since it
didn't happen in this film.  My guess is they'll just ignore the entrepreneur
subplot altogether and leave the twins as undeveloped comic relief.  Yet
another example of why the books are better.  The consequences of Harry giving
his winnings to the twins are too complex for these films, and we don't even
know yet where they're going to lead in the end.

> 7.	There was no mention of Fudge's (or was it Barty) deals 
> with the Weasley and goblins

It was Ludo Bagman, who I'm told is not in the film, so this makes sense (or at
least as much sense has not having Bagman in the film in the first place).

Sherry Garfio


"Differences of habit and language are nothing at all if our aims are identical and our hearts are open."
    -- Albus Dumbledore, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire





	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com



From faura2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 16 22:16:44 2005
From: faura2002 at yahoo.com (faura2002)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 22:16:44 -0000
Subject: WARNING: SPOILERS [was:  GOP Review]
In-Reply-To: <dlf49t+9tmb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlgb4c+gvr0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "little_blue_pupooh"
<little_blue_pupooh at y...> wrote:
>
> The GOP opens in the Philippines today (Nov. 16) with a General 
> Patronage rating. Personally, I find the book far better than its 
> movie adaptation. Listed below are significant changes in the movie 
> plot that had destroyed the book's spirit somewhat and that has 
> possible consequences in the next movie.
> 
> <large snip>

> Any reactions...


Yes, kabayan, you should have put "SPOILER" in your subject line and
SPOILER SPACE before your post proper. We were the first ones to watch
the film and should allow the others to have a go-see before we
inflict our comments on them. Newbie?

now, my random thoughts....


s
p
o
i
l
e
r

s
p
a
c
e


s
p
a
c
e

s
p
o
i
l
e
r

I like this movie better than all the others. However, it is not for
kids, especially the last part from the maze until the graveyard
scene. It is something that might give young children nightmares
afterwards...

The first 30-minutes or so is a roller coaster ride on hyperspeed. If
you have not read the book, you'll be confused. And I wish the
dialogue was tighter. I got the feeling sometimes that it was hanging
and needed a bit more additional lines to it.

I really don't like this Dumbledore. Sorry for Michael Gambon fans,
but his portrayal lacks the "presence" it should have, especially in
the light of Books 5 and 6. He seems so weak as a headmaster.

Yes, they deviated a bit from the book to show the connection of Barty
Crouch Jr. to Voldemort since there was not to be any Winky side of
the story. Barty Crouch Sr. also seems to be a weak character, in
complete contrast to his portrayal in the book.

I love the special effects, especially the mini-dragons. They seem so
real! And the "magic" at the beginning of the movie [during the
Quidditch World Cup] sets the mood so right. As Harry said "I really
love magic!"

Surprise! Surprise! Where was Hermione? She is no longer
Heroine!Hermione and Ron finally got his fair share of the story. And
funny, I think most of Hermione's scenes were with the twins. Hehe.

The comic relief? It's Filch. Whatever they did with Filch? But hey,
it works for me! And Snape? They really had to think of a scene for
him, did they? What was it, study hall? I can't believe it was a
Potions class since the twins were there too.

And what was Padma the other twin doing in the Gryffindor's common
room? She came from Ravenclaw right? And Flitwick? I like the
appearance of the original one better.

Yes. They corrected the gravestone. And the cinematography was
fabulous. Correct setting, correct lighting, correct mood.

Moody was creepy all throughout. He frightened me, I wouldn't want to
meet him. More so with Barty Crouch Jr., he is maniacal, a psycho.
Ralph Fiennes did a good job with Voldemort. He is physical yet still
seemed to be spirit, even during the battle. And he is luminous,
marble white. Just like in the book.

The dead Cedric gives me the chills. I like this Neville --- he loved
to dance! 

Of the trio, it still is Rupert who is tops when it comes to acting.
Emma at first was "acting" but as the movie progressed, her acting
became more relaxed and natural. I liked the scene at the conclusion
of the Yule Ball. Ron is just so full of angst. And the twins? They
were having the time of their lives.

Daniel was ok. He did show some skin in the prefect's bathroom. Myrtle
was hilarious! 

Anyway, I will watch it again. And hopefully I will have a better
review of it.

All in all, it was a movie worth watching. I just hoped they made it
longer for it to have unfolded better and not seemed rushed.

my two cents.

faura

----------------

"No dragons were harmed in the making of this movie."  - GOF Credits






From little_blue_pupooh at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 17 02:43:59 2005
From: little_blue_pupooh at yahoo.com (little_blue_pupooh)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 02:43:59 -0000
Subject: WARNING: SPOILERS [was:  GOP Review]
In-Reply-To: <dlgb4c+gvr0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlgqpf+ljer@eGroups.com>

Im sorry, I am new here.

Anyway I just want to add the fact that after watching the movie, I did 
not feel the excitement and desire to watch the next installment 
immediately compared to reading the book. There was no sense of hanging 
in the end but rather a sense of contentment.

Here are few questions left unanswered by the movie because they 
deleted some part of the movie....
1. How did Voltemort know of the Triwizard Tournament?
2. How did Barty Crouch Jr escape Azkaban?
3. How did Crouch Jr able to put Harry's name in the Goblet?


And I miss Dobby and the Blast Ended Skwert!







From kelley_thompson at sbcglobal.net  Fri Nov 18 01:30:09 2005
From: kelley_thompson at sbcglobal.net (Kelley)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 01:30:09 -0000
Subject: Admin-type reminder ahead of Friday
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20051116024005.00b2e990@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <dljar1+cgr0@eGroups.com>

Hi, everyone--

First thing, thanks for including spoiler warnings in your posts, 
guys!  Please continue this, everyone. 

Okay, now on to this.  I'm not going to comment point-by-point 
on Richard's post, but I wanted to make sure it was addressed.  
For those who don't know, we have a group called HPfGU-Feedback 
that was created for precisely this sort of discussion:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Feedback/

Please, anyone who's interested, consider joining -- it's the 
best means the elves have for geting a real sense of how list 
members feel about group matters (plus list members can see how 
other list members feel). :-)  

So, even though our policy is strict about keeping policy 
/ administrative discussions off of main, OTC, Movie, I want to 
post a reply to what Richard has said.

I'm one of the elves here, and while I don't read every message, 
I do read most, though I often can get behind.  I spend most of 
my Movie list attention on keeping out spam and sending through
the messages from real list members and demodding those folks so 
they can post freely.  A couple other list elves do the same, 
including following the discussions here.

It has indeed been a while since the elves have done any strong 
moderating over here, as plenty of you are aware.  Richard's 
right that it's mainly because Movie is considerably slower, 
though there's a little more to it.  Here's a sort of boiled-down 
explanation:

Back when OoP was released (late June, '03), the elves were 
prepared for it to be really bad, but it was at least 50% worse 
than what I was expecting. <g>  For many weeks the elves were 
spending hours and hours each day just attending to main.  Of 
course, Movie and OTC were considerably neglected through all of 
that.  Once things settled down a bit, we began keeping a better 
eye on them.

A big thing we noticed (and it continues) is that so many people 
top-post (happens on all the groups, though main is the only place 
we have been strictly enforcing the rule against).  The elves 
grumbled about it amongst themselves (along with grumbles about 
lack of snipping, lack of capitalization, lack of attribution, 
lack of sigs, etc., etc., etc.).  But, one thing was different -- 
we weren't hearing the usual complaints from listies that we'd 
always heard before.

Now, surely there are a million reasons for this, the main one 
being, "*You guys* are the mods, you've got your rules -- do your 
jobs!"  Absolutely right.  Thing was, for me at any rate, absent 
the independent confirmation we'd always gotten from list members 
before, I began to wonder if maybe the regular posters on Movie 
(and OTC) just weren't bothered by those things very much.  I 
wondered if maybe people liked things better this way, if list 
members liked the 'hands-off' atmosphere more, if they were glad 
the rules Nazis were leaving this group alone. :-)

So, basically, I was hesitant to fix anything if no one seemed to 
feel it was broken.

Now, I have a pretty good idea that feelings on this fall into 
the usual categories -- some people hate the lack of adherence to 
the rules and want the elves to crack down and clean things up; 
some won't care one way or the other; and some will be strongly 
against anything that changes how things have been recently.  

Regardless, I'd still love to hear everyone's thoughts on any 
of this.  My apologies to anyone who doesn't want to see this 
discussion here (that's the primary reason we keep discussions 
like this on Feedback), and also my apologies for delving into 
this so close to GoF Day, <g> but this is really important to 
us.  Of course, if anyone would rather just comment to the elves 
directly, that'd be great, too, or if y'all would indeed rather 
have this discussion on FB -- any of these options would be good.  

We just want everyone to know that not only is it okay to contact 
us about things like this, we *encourage* it, and that certainly 
doesn't get said often enough.  Input from list members is the 
greatest way we have of knowing what issues matter most to you 
all, what things need more attention from us, and so on.  It 
helps us to do our jobs *so* much better.

Last thing I'll say here is that we want to reassure folks that 
we want to do better by this group, so again, if you have any 
specific concerns you want to see addressed, we'd love to hear 
from you.


--Kelley Elf






From hp at plum.cream.org  Fri Nov 18 02:54:37 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 02:54:37 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Admin-type reminder ahead of Friday
In-Reply-To: <dljar1+cgr0@eGroups.com>
References: <4.2.0.58.20051116024005.00b2e990@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051118021359.00b3cd60@plum.cream.org>

At 01:30 18/11/2005 , Kelley wrote:

<HUGE snip>

First of all, apologies to Kelley and the admin team for perhaps giving the 
impression in what I said before that I might have been criticising the 
team for not being strict with the posts/members on this list. I've just 
re-read what I wrote and must admit that such a reading was possible. 
However, I want to make it absolutely clear that this was NOT my intent in 
any way, shape or form.

I am well aware that the team has more than enough work looking after the 
other, much busier lists, and the few posts on this list for 51 weeks of 
the year don't warrant a heavy-handed approach. It is precisely because I 
wanted to AVOID it that I felt it appropriate for the plea for sticking to 
the list's conventions (I much prefer that word to "rules", because we 
really are talking about common-sense conventions which exist for valid and 
fairly obvious reasons rather than being rules imposed from "on high") to 
come as a gentle reminder from a poster whom many people here might 
recognise rather than be some kind of order from the admin team. The List 
Elves do a terrific job and I never thought it necessary to make a big 
song-and-dance about this issue.

Sorry for any possible embarrassment.

>A big thing we noticed (and it continues) is that so many people
>top-post (happens on all the groups, though main is the only place
>we have been strictly enforcing the rule against).  The elves
>grumbled about it amongst themselves (along with grumbles about
>lack of snipping, lack of capitalization, lack of attribution,
>lack of sigs, etc., etc., etc.).  But, one thing was different --
>we weren't hearing the usual complaints from listies that we'd
>always heard before.

My own view on the matter (and the reason why I've not contacted the Admins 
about this) is that whilst I care for people sticking to the established 
conventions (quite simply because it makes life *reading* the list so much 
easier!), for most of the time it really isn't a big issue on this list 
because there are so few posts, and long threads are rare. One of the 
reasons I gave up the Main and OT lists some years ago was because 
flaunting the conventions was rife and keeping up with the lists had simply 
become impossible.

On this list, top-posting, lack of trimming, etc, are manageable - both to 
people like me who get individual messages delivered by email as well as 
people reading the digest (not to mention people using the web interface).

However, within the next 24 hours and for the next week or so, traffic on 
this list is going to explode (if the movie releases to date are any 
indication) and so, for that time, people sticking to the conventions (most 
of which are geared to keeping posts as short as possible) becomes an 
issue. In a couple of weeks' time, this will, again, no longer be so 
important, even if the odd post might irritate me on technical grounds.

I would submit that more of the old hands probably feel the way I do, and 
this is the reason why the admin team hasn't been troubled by a flood of 
complaints about various posts/posters.

Thankfully, the members of this list generally do a pretty good job of 
self-moderation and the odd gentle nudge is enough to correct any minor 
deviations. My only concern is that a lot of people will turn up here out 
of the blue over the course of the next few days and not see this thread 
but there's not a lot we can do about that anyway, regardless of whether 
it's gentle reminders or heavy-handed orders. :-) I do hope, however, that 
those who *have* read this thread will create examples for the others to 
follow, even if their first posts might not be quite up to scratch.

BTW Kelley: be prepared to hear from me by the end of the day about setting 
up some new items in the polls section, and perhaps to close some old ones 
(I'm sure I shall think of at least one original one). :-)

--
Richard, previously AKA GulPlum, a bit cheesed off that there are no 
midnight screenings around here. :-(






From kelley_thompson at sbcglobal.net  Fri Nov 18 05:03:59 2005
From: kelley_thompson at sbcglobal.net (Kelley)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 05:03:59 -0000
Subject: Admin-type reminder ahead of Friday
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20051118021359.00b3cd60@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <dljnbv+vnhh@eGroups.com>

Richard:
> First of all, apologies to Kelley and the admin team for 
> perhaps giving the impression in what I said before that I 
> might have been criticising the team for not being strict 
> with the posts/members on this list. I've just re-read what 
> I wrote and must admit that such a reading was possible. 
> However, I want to make it absolutely clear that this was 
> NOT my intent in any way, shape or form.

Oh goodness, not at all, Richard!  Heh, I should have made the 
point in my own message that I was basically 'me too'-ing 
everything you'd said.  Honestly, nothing in your post felt like 
criticism at all; you see, I've been feeling quite guilty about
not doing more over here, so that's where my post was coming 
from. ;-)
 
> I am well aware that the team has more than enough work 
> looking after the other, much busier lists, and the few posts 
> on this list for 51 weeks of the year don't warrant a heavy-
> handed approach. 

Of course.  And really, that's just what we want to avoid here, 
being heavy-handed.  (On OTC, as well.)

> It is precisely because I wanted to AVOID it that I felt it 
> appropriate for the plea for sticking to the list's conventions 

Yes; I should have said also that I, for one, very much 
appreciated your post.

> (I much prefer that word to "rules", because we really are 
> talking about common-sense conventions which exist for valid 
> and fairly obvious reasons rather than being rules imposed from
> "on high") 

Absolutely agreed.  I belong to a couple groups for mods (to help
each other out) and it was an interesting revelation for me that 
most of our rules/conventions/guidelines/etc. are the same as 
those used in just tons of other groups, too.  They really are 
just basic 'netiquette,' common sense, good courtesy, and so on.

> to come as a gentle reminder from a poster whom many people 
> here might recognise rather than be some kind of order from the 
> admin team. 

Agreed.

> The List Elves do a terrific job and I never thought 
> it necessary to make a big song-and-dance about this issue.

Haha!  Aw, thanks (and yes, no song-and-dance needed, lol.)
 
> Sorry for any possible embarrassment.

Lol, no, none at all. :-)
 
> > Kelley, earlier:  But, one thing was different -- we 
> > weren't hearing the usual complaints from listies that 
> > we'd always heard before.

Richard:
> My own view on the matter (and the reason why I've not 
> contacted the Admins about this) is that whilst I care for 
> people sticking to the established conventions (quite simply 
> because it makes life *reading* the list so much easier!), 
> for most of the time it really isn't a big issue on this list 
> because there are so few posts, and long threads are rare. 

Right, exactly.  Fwiw, as some folks might remember, back when 
Penny Linsenmayer was modding this group, she never found a need
for anything more than a gentle reminder posted onlist now and 
again, whatever the issue was.  That's really all I've ever 
felt should be done, here and on OTC, myself.

> One of the reasons I gave up the Main and OT lists some years
> ago was because flaunting the conventions was rife and keeping
> up with the lists had simply become impossible.

Indeed.  Main's a daily and never-ending battle; OTC has been 
neglected in the just the same way as Movie, really, and we'd 
like to get that group a little more on-track again, too.

> On this list, top-posting, lack of trimming, etc, are 
> manageable - both to people like me who get individual messages 
> delivered by email as well as people reading the digest (not to 
> mention people using the web interface).

Yes; I mainly read by digest and scrolling through unsnipped 
material, both posts that I've already read and footers that have
been left in, is a bit frustrating, and if this group were busier
I'd certainly be less inclined to follow.

> However, within the next 24 hours and for the next week or so, 
> traffic on this list is going to explode (if the movie releases 
> to date are any indication) and so, for that time, people 
> sticking to the conventions (most of which are geared to keeping 
> posts as short as possible) becomes an issue. In a couple of 
> weeks' time, this will, again, no longer be so important, even 
> if the odd post might irritate me on technical grounds.

Exactly, yes.

> I would submit that more of the old hands probably feel the way 
> I do, and this is the reason why the admin team hasn't been 
> troubled by a flood of complaints about various posts/posters.

Yeah, I'd suspect that that's probably the case.

> Thankfully, the members of this list generally do a pretty good 
> job of self-moderation and the odd gentle nudge is enough to 
> correct any minor deviations. 

Oh yes!  And that is such a blessing, too.

> My only concern is that a lot of people will turn up here out 
> of the blue over the course of the next few days and not see 
> this thread but there's not a lot we can do about that anyway, 
> regardless of whether it's gentle reminders or heavy-handed 
> orders. :-) 

Heh, I hear you.  Fwiw, the plan is the occasional 'gentle 
reminder'. ;-)

> I do hope, however, that those who *have* read this thread will 
> create examples for the others to follow, even if their first 
> posts might not be quite up to scratch.

Absolutely; I hope people appreciate how very much that does help.

> BTW Kelley: be prepared to hear from me by the end of the day 
> about setting up some new items in the polls section, and 
> perhaps to close some old ones (I'm sure I shall think of at 
> least one original one). :-)

Lol, I'm tickled that you mentioned this -- when I read your post 
the other day, I got it in mind to look at both the polls and the 
settings; it's now set so that list members can freely set up 
polls if they like.  An elf will have to close any still-open-but-
outdated ones, so I'll be glad to close out any that folks think 
should go. :-)

> --
> Richard, previously AKA GulPlum, a bit cheesed off that there 
> are no midnight screenings around here. :-(

Oh, drat!  It'll actually be sometime next week before I get to 
see it.  (A few elves/ex-elves will be coming to my city for the 
T'giving holiday, so I'm glad at least that I'll get to see it 
with actual HPfGU folks.) :-D

Happy viewing, everyone!

--Kelley







From luckdragon64 at yahoo.ca  Fri Nov 18 08:23:08 2005
From: luckdragon64 at yahoo.ca (Bee chase)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:23:08 -0000
Subject: discuss the movie (spoilers)
Message-ID: <dlk31c+9e48@eGroups.com>

I couldn't wait to see it and I really enjoyed it. It was two and a 
half hours long and there were many changes and many things left out, 
but it did not seem butchered like POA. I felt the effects were well 
done. Now I'm looking forward to seeing it again after the crowds die 
down. We went to the first showing in our area at 11:59 p.m. and 
although we arrived one hour early their was already a huge line up. 
The majority of the audience were teens, some young children, and 
several adults. A few people did arrive in costume. It was a good 
night.








From daughterofthedust at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 18 09:27:10 2005
From: daughterofthedust at yahoo.com (daughterofthedust)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 09:27:10 -0000
Subject: GOP Review
In-Reply-To: <dlf49t+9tmb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlk6pe+9up9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "little_blue_pupooh"
<little_blue_pupooh at y...> wrote:
>
> The GOP opens in the Philippines today (Nov. 16) with a General 
> Patronage rating. Personally, I find the book far better than its 
> movie adaptation. Listed below are significant changes in the movie 
> plot that had destroyed the book's spirit somewhat and that has 
> possible consequences in the next movie.
> 
> 1. Barty Crouch Jr's identity is also introduced though not divulged 
> in the first part of the movie. In the book, his identity is slowly 
> developed and introduced thus a spirit of suspense and thrill on how 
> who Barty Crouch Jr is. 
> 2. The movie fails to mention important characters in the movie like 
> Dobby, who helped Harry get the gilliweed, the elf of Barty Crouch 
> and Percy, who replaced Crouch. Due to Percy's disappearance in the 
> movie, it would be hard for the next installment to point out that 
> Percy would not believe and support his own family and Dumbledore.
> 
> Here are some of my comments regarding the story line.
> 
> 1.	The Crouches' characters were undeveloped
> 2.	Daniel is still a poor actor, though a cute and sexy one 
> (especially when he was figuring out the message of the egg in the 
> bathroom)
> 3.	I hate Dumbledore's acting ? he seems to be too energetic
> 4.	The movie is not as dark as the book
> 5.	It would be best if Hermione was ugly at the start and would 
> become beautiful during the ball
> 6.	There was no mention of who won and what happened to the 
> money afterwards
> 7.	There was no mention of Fudge's (or was it Barty) deals with 
> the Weasley and goblins
> 8.	There was no mention of the missing ministry woman and how 
> Arthur went to Moody's house before the start of the term
> 
> Any reactions
.
>


Here's a reaction: How about instead of pointing out areas where the
movie divulges from the book, actually REVIEWING the film for what it is??

Newsflash: All movies based on books "short" the source material. 

They have to. 

All those things you mention, did not need to be in the film.

Now...

The film, I thought flowed well...and hit all the high and low points
of emotion appropriately.

As for what I especially liked...

More Weasley Twins! And very true to the source material. :-)

Energetic Dumbledore....For someone so stuck on source, you would
forget that Dumbledore is described as surprisingly strong
(paraphrasing, of course) at the right moments. He has to be scary to
Voldemort. A frail old man would not scare him.

Viktor Krum...looked and acted right out of my imagination. :-)

Brendan Glesson, ROCKED Mad Eye!! :-)

As did Miranda Richardson's Rita Skeeter...

Neville!! Was sooo cute, especially in relation to the ball. :-D

--------------------
Now, I didn't like...

Ralph Fiennes' Voldemort, I found him a bit too serpentine/femme.

The Dragon sequence, once they left the stadium. I simply found it
more intense, more believable, and frighteningly, claustophobic, in
the stadium.

Emma Watson's acting...She was waaay too dramatic, throughout the film. 

Overall, I thought Mike directed with a sure hand, giving the world
the same comfortable "this is what we are" feel that Cuaron gave.

I still think Kloves is the "tell-not-show" king and doesn't know how
to develop a story to save his life, but...This one WAS well done.

One more little quibble...The flying horses pulling Beaubatons'
carriage...Arrrgh!! Now, this of course, doesn't hurt the flow of the
film, however, it wouldn't have been much trouble to keep the
invisable creatures, either. 








From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Fri Nov 18 13:23:56 2005
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 13:23:56 -0000
Subject: Admin-type reminder ahead of Friday
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20051118021359.00b3cd60@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <dlkkld+evgi@eGroups.com>

Richard:
> First of all, apologies to Kelley and the admin team for perhaps 
> giving the impression in what I said before that I might have been 
> criticising the team for not being strict with the posts/members on 
> this list. 
<snip>
> I am well aware that the team has more than enough work looking 
> after the other, much busier lists, and the few posts on this list 
> for 51 weeks of the year don't warrant a heavy-handed approach. It 
> is precisely because I wanted to AVOID it that I felt it 
> appropriate for the plea for sticking to the list's conventions (I 
> much prefer that word to "rules"....


SSSusan:
Another Mod weighing in here.  Richard, I was the one who first saw 
your post and brought it to the attention of the elves.  Like Kelley, 
I also did not see it as criticism at all.  Rather, I saw it as an 
attempt by a list member to remind folks, as we head into what's 
likely to be a busy-busy time at the Movie list, to please be 
considerate of readers by attending to common courtesy conventions 
(like your use of that word over "rules" as well!).  So no problem 
there!  I agreed with Kelley that it would be helpful to invite Movie 
list members to let us know how they feel about this group as opposed 
to the main group (which Kelley has nicely done already).


Richard: 
> My own view on the matter (and the reason why I've not contacted 
> the Admins about this) is that whilst I care for people sticking to 
> the established conventions (quite simply because it makes life 
> *reading* the list so much easier!), for most of the time it really 
> isn't a big issue on this list because there are so few posts, and 
> long threads are rare. 

SSSusan:
I think this is an excellent point.  Occasionally at OTC the top-
posting and lack of snipping does get annoying, but as you say, here 
at Movie, most of the time it's easy to work through because there 
are so few posts.

OTOH, I'm one who *really* finds it much, much easier to follow the 
flow of a discussion when posters take care with their editing -- 
snipping out extraneous stuff (points they're not going to respond 
to, sig lines, Yahoo-generated stuff), clearly identifying their own 
words, and placing those words *after* quoted material so that the 
discussion FLOWS for the reader.  All of that -- readability, 
understandability -- is why we *are* such sticklers about no top-
posting and about snipping at Main.  And so, frankly, when I saw your 
post, asking people to please attend to these matters as the Movie 
list heads into (likely) a period of post explosion, I personally 
applauded you.
 

Richard:
> My only concern is that a lot of people will turn up here out 
> of the blue over the course of the next few days and not see this 
> thread but there's not a lot we can do about that anyway, 
> regardless of whether it's gentle reminders or heavy-handed 
> orders. :-) I do hope, however, that those who *have* read this 
> thread will create examples for the others to follow, even if their 
> first posts might not be quite up to scratch.

SSSusan:
And, yep, that is about all we can ask for and the best we can do.  
As Kelley mentioned, a few of us elves are hoping to find more time 
for the Movie (and eventually OTC) lists, so that those gentle 
reminders (as opposed to heavy-handed orders ;-)) can go out more 
often than they have been.


> Richard, previously AKA GulPlum, a bit cheesed off that there are 
> no midnight screenings around here. :-(

SSSusan:
Yep, me, too.  Would've had to have driven 45 miles for a midnight 
showing, and I just didn't think driving home at 3:00 am on a "school 
night" would be so wise for me!  So 3:45 pm it is for me today!

Siriusly Snapey Susan/Shorty Elf (I'm not quite sure in which 
capacity I've most posted ;-))







From anita_hillin at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 18 13:58:30 2005
From: anita_hillin at yahoo.com (AnitaKH)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 05:58:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Admin-type reminder ahead of Friday
In-Reply-To: <dlkkld+evgi@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051118135834.46796.qmail@web30312.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


[snipping lots of good advice about proper posting guidelines - yea, Richard!]
  
  > Richard, previously AKA GulPlum, a bit cheesed off that there are 
  > no midnight screenings around here. :-(
  
akh:
  That is a bummer.  I live in Chicago, where there were quite a few  theatres running midnight showings.  That said, my usual theatre  initially offered two times, both of which sold out days before the  opening.  They added a third, which sold out in less than a  day.  Yesterday they added a fourth show, and by 10:30 last night,  it had sold out!  (All the today's evening performances are sold  out too.)
  
  I'm an old lady, so I couldn't go to a midnight show on a work day, but  I have my tickets purchased already for the Sunday matinee.  
  
  akh, who just realized talking about a "matinee" made her sound even older than she really is!


		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From verosomm at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 18 14:30:15 2005
From: verosomm at yahoo.com (verosomm)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 14:30:15 -0000
Subject: GOP Review
In-Reply-To: <dlk6pe+9up9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlkohn+jiuq@eGroups.com>

> Newsflash: All movies based on books "short" the source material. 
> 
> They have to. 
> 
> All those things you mention, did not need to be in the film.
> 
> Now...
> 
> The film, I thought flowed well...and hit all the high and low 
points
> of emotion appropriately.
> 
> As for what I especially liked...
> 
> More Weasley Twins! And very true to the source material. :-)
> 
> Energetic Dumbledore....For someone so stuck on source, you would
> forget that Dumbledore is described as surprisingly strong
> (paraphrasing, of course) at the right moments. He has to be scary 
to
> Voldemort. A frail old man would not scare him.
> 
> Viktor Krum...looked and acted right out of my imagination. :-)
> 
> Brendan Glesson, ROCKED Mad Eye!! :-)
> 
> As did Miranda Richardson's Rita Skeeter...
> 
> Neville!! Was sooo cute, especially in relation to the ball. :-D
> 
> --------------------


I completely agree with your comments on all of your likes, was 
going to put a post up to the same effect but you beat me to it; my 
opinion on the dislikes, however...


> Now, I didn't like...
> 
> Ralph Fiennes' Voldemort, I found him a bit too serpentine/femme.


Actually, I thought this was very true to the book (the serpentine 
part is obvious and I've always gotten the idea that his new body 
was thin, sort of feminine, but that his quiet voice commands more 
fear (or respect, depending what side you're on) than a loud, 
thunderous one would... and he totally creeped me out, so I thought 
that was believable 


> The Dragon sequence, once they left the stadium. I simply found it
> more intense, more believable, and frighteningly, claustophobic, in
> the stadium.


Completely agree here, although when Harry's falling, it reminds me 
very much of the end of Book 6 with DD, so foreshadowing, maybe?

 
> Emma Watson's acting...She was waaay too dramatic, throughout the 
film. 


I was an overly emotional 14-year-old girl once, and I can imagine 
that if a) my best friend was in mortal danger (scary) b) my other 
best friend (who I was secretly in love with) was acting like an 
idiot (infuriating) and c) an older, cute, famous guy was smitten 
with me (cool, but intimidating at the same time) I'd be an 
emotional wreck and acting super dramatic most of the time as well...


> Overall, I thought Mike directed with a sure hand, giving the world
> the same comfortable "this is what we are" feel that Cuaron gave.


yep


> I still think Kloves is the "tell-not-show" king and doesn't know 
how
> to develop a story to save his life, but...This one WAS well done.


I don't necessarily agree that he's a "tell-not-show" king per se, 
but I agree that this was definitely the tightest screenplay, and 
shown extremely well... the best written thus far


> One more little quibble...The flying horses pulling Beaubatons'
> carriage...Arrrgh!! Now, this of course, doesn't hurt the flow of 
the
> film, however, it wouldn't have been much trouble to keep the
> invisable creatures, either.


Actually, the Beaxbatons horses are NOT invisible, so this was true 
to the book.  You are thinking of the ones that pull the Hogwarts 
carriages when the kids get off the train at the start of the year.

Veronica






From artsylynda at aol.com  Fri Nov 18 14:43:56 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 09:43:56 EST
Subject: Abraxans
Message-ID: <237.1b37bec.30af42ac@aol.com>

 
 
In a message dated 11/18/2005 6:43:52 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com writes:

One more  little quibble...The flying horses pulling Beaubatons'
carriage...Arrrgh!!  Now, this of course, doesn't hurt the flow of the
film, however, it  wouldn't have been much trouble to keep the
invisable creatures, either.  



Those are Abraxans, not thestrals, so they are NOT  invisible!!  I'm excited 
to see them (going to the 11:50 AM showing today,  YAY!)
 
Lynda, whose HP pen name is "Abraxan" (which are, in the HP world,  giant 
palomino flying horses -- in the "real" world, they are legendary flying  Arabian 
horses, of ancient Arabian legend, so I've been told by people who have  
Arabians and are "into" their history)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From artsylynda at aol.com  Fri Nov 18 14:39:46 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 09:39:46 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie]  Admin-type reminder ahead of Friday
Message-ID: <1ea.47e9459e.30af41b2@aol.com>

 
Hi -- I have no problem with you guys being so hands-off on this  list.  I 
prefer that, by far, to the Nazi-ish feeling of a strictly run  board.  That's 
one reason I only read this one now, rather than reading the  others I've 
signed on to.  (The other reason is that the HP4GU list goes so  fast that I can't 
keep up with it with all the reviews I have to deal with for  my stories and 
my business email).  So keep up the good work, keep the spam  off of here as 
well as you've been doing, and just let us muddle through on our  own -- we seem 
to manage ourselves pretty well here!  Thanks a lot for  trusting us to be 
grownups!!

Lynda
(and you can read my two novel-length HP fics here:  
_http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/) )



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From bethbryant at optonline.net  Fri Nov 18 15:13:32 2005
From: bethbryant at optonline.net (Nona Bryant)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:13:32 -0500
Subject: HP movie today at 11:50 (mohegan lake, NY)
References: <237.1b37bec.30af42ac@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001401c5ec52$a408a2f0$640fa8c0@emachine>

It may be a long shot, but if anyone is planning on attending the 11:50 HP 
movie at the UA Cortlandt Town Center in Mohegan Lake, NY, give me a call at 
914-426-2417. I preordered 2 tix and my husband had to go into the city 
today. I would be glad to give the other one away. I am leaving my house now 
so will not get an email.
cheers,
-beth

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <artsylynda at aol.com>
To: <HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 9:43 AM
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Abraxans


>
>
> In a message dated 11/18/2005 6:43:52 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com writes:
>
> One more  little quibble...The flying horses pulling Beaubatons'
> carriage...Arrrgh!!  Now, this of course, doesn't hurt the flow of the
> film, however, it  wouldn't have been much trouble to keep the
> invisable creatures, either.
>
>
>
> Those are Abraxans, not thestrals, so they are NOT  invisible!!  I'm 
> excited
> to see them (going to the 11:50 AM showing today,  YAY!)
>
> Lynda, whose HP pen name is "Abraxan" (which are, in the HP world,  giant
> palomino flying horses -- in the "real" world, they are legendary flying 
> Arabian
> horses, of ancient Arabian legend, so I've been told by people who have
> Arabians and are "into" their history)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material 
> from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Any questions or problems - contact the List Elves at 
> HPforGrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> 




From sherriola at earthlink.net  Fri Nov 18 15:19:48 2005
From: sherriola at earthlink.net (Sherry Gomes)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 07:19:48 -0800
Subject: movie opinions
In-Reply-To: <dljar1+cgr0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <003e01c5ec53$8505d5c0$0400a8c0@pensive>

I won't be going to the movie till next week, if then.  i have to find out
if it's playing in a local theater equipped with Descriptive video service,
since this seems to be a very visual movie.  However, i will be interested
to hear opinions from everyone who gets to it sooner.  Especially from those
who didn't particularly like the POA movie because of changes to plot or
things left out.  POA was so disappointing to me, and so far, all i've read
sounds like those who liked that one, like this one.  i can't wait to read
what you all think!

Sherry




From gailw73 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 18 15:12:19 2005
From: gailw73 at yahoo.com (Gail)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 15:12:19 -0000
Subject: 2 Words for movie
Message-ID: <dlkr0j+nvej@eGroups.com>

Bloody Marvelous !  late middle age fem here, got home at 3:30 and 
still went to work ! (much coffee this am.)
   Absolutely loved Dumbledore (a wizard warrior, strong enough to do 
physical battle,  concerned for his world, and kind to growing boys) , 
the twins, Neville's character development (so important for future 
movies), Hagrid's wandering hands while dancing, the bouncing 
ferret !, Hermione's "Boys!"   etc etc.  Did not mind at all , did not 
miss, the absent Dobby, Winkie, details of Crouch problems ... IMO, 
the movie held the story together well on its own. 
I'm hoping to see it again in theatre 2-3 more times.
  re putting "spoiler" lines, as of today, really, wouldnt anyone 
coming here have to expect to read about the movie????









From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 18 19:26:17 2005
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora67)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 19:26:17 -0000
Subject: Saw GOF
Message-ID: <dll9sp+a9ps@eGroups.com>

Okay, I am de-lurking.  I haven't posted in forever, but I thought 
some of you might want some first impressions.

Beautiful visuals!  Amazing costumes.  Ron:  Rupert Grint just 
continues to get better and better. Loved him!  Hermione:  growing 
up so fast.  Not as big a part as in POA, which is sad, but some 
lovely moments with Harry.  Cedric:  how could you not love this 
guy, the golden boy?  When Harry brings him back to the maze it's 
heartbreaking.   Krum:  not nearly as "grumpy"  as in the novels, 
but I liked him, I really did.  Yule Ball is fantastic visually, and 
the there are some really good dance moments.  Harry looks 
dashing!!  Ron is hysterical about those robes - that's his best 
moment.  QWC was awesome!  And scarier than I imagined.  

I won't say anymore, I don't want to ruin it.  But, let me say, now 
that the graveyard scene has been played out on the big screen, you 
have a new respect for the terror Harry went through.  Raplh Fiennes 
was unrecognizable, thank goodness.  I didn't want to think 
Voldemort was sexy, and I didn't ;).  

Alora






From hp at plum.cream.org  Fri Nov 18 20:18:50 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 20:18:50 +0000
Subject: Richard's detailed GOF review
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051118155537.00b074c0@plum.cream.org>

Just to differentiate this thread from those already started, I've included 
my name in the subject...

A few preliminaries. I've not touched the book for over two years (since 
OotP came out) so my memory of specific scenes is a little hazy. I'll 
probably see the movie again after I've leafed through the book (I doubt 
I'm up to re-reading it in full). I've just come back from watching it once 
through to the end of the credits, and again from the middle of the first 
task to the beginning of the end credits (the second, incomplete, viewing 
allowed me to notice a few more things). This review will probably be a 
little different to the comments already posted (not that I've read any - I 
won't do so until after I've finished writing this), as firstly I'd like to 
review the movie in some detail *as a movie* (as I've done with the 
previous three), before making some of the nitpicky comments more typical 
of this list... I will try to keep the review as spoiler-free as most 
professional reviews are, but will then get VERY spoilery, so you've all 
been warned!

Overall, as the pre-release hype and the few interviews I've seen have 
insisted, this is definitely the best of the movies so far. For one thing, 
the passage of time  and the feeling that the story happens over a whole 
school year has been done better than any of the previous three. 
Regrettably, however, Dan Radcliffe remains more wooden than his Firebolt - 
as I've said about the previous movies, the expressiveness of his eyes is 
his one redeeming feature and there are plenty of ultra-closeups to show 
them to best effect. My impression is that he's probably got less dialogue 
than in any of the other movies to date, which is perhaps a recognition by 
Kloves and Newell that line delivery is perhaps where he is weakest. 
Strangely enough, in my view, his best scene is in the Prefects' bathroom. 
Perhaps this worked best because he needed to concentrate so much more, 
acting against Shirley Henderson, added in post-production as an extremely 
frisky Moaning Myrtle. The audience at my two showings were all adults (one 
of the reasons I went to morning shows, while the kids are at school) and 
the scene  generated plenty of embarrassed laughs.

On the subject of acting, Brendan Gleeson as Mad Eye Moody simply steals 
the show, dominating every single scene in which he's present, even if he 
has nothing but a glance or a grimace to produce. The rest of the adult 
cast acquit themselves admirably, although most of them are relegated to 
little more than cameos. Alan Rickman's Snape as comic relief comes as a 
bit of a surprise, skulking around Harry and Ron (talking about girl 
problems) while invigilating a homework session, but strangely remains very 
much in character.

Michael Gambon  seems to be settling into the Dumbledore role, playing his 
part very differently from Richard Harris but including a little homage by 
adopting a distinctly Oirish (yes, the "O" was deliberate) :-) accent here 
and there. His reaction to Harry's name coming out of the Goblet could have 
been played in so many different ways, but the way he does it, with a 
believable combination of incredulity, surprise, dread and just a little 
anger, is spot on - just the kind of reaction one would expect from a 
concerned parent.

I have myself to blame for having a problem with Ralph Fiennes' Voldemort: 
I had hoped I could get over it, but regrettably I saw The Constant 
Gardener yesterday in which he provided a practical masterclass playing the 
titular character, on his journey from fairly stereotypical 
stiff-upper-lipped to passionate, but always sympathetic. (Forget GoF, go 
see The Constant Gardener. Now.) Despite the makeup and CGI nose,  he 
remained recognisable, and, in a rare occurence for me, I had trouble 
accepting him as the embodiment of evil. One of the reasons I have to see 
GoF again is to be able to appreciate Voldemort without the other movie's 
ending still playing in my mind. On a more technical note, the makeup and 
whole "birthing" was magnificently done, and apart from the eyes (which I 
had expected to be more serpentine - I assume Fiennes has a problem with 
contacts?), his appearance was straight out of the book (at least as I 
remember it).

On to other aspects of the movie. Much as I liked and admired PoA, one of 
its shortcomings for me was the overuse of the rather gimmicky "iris" 
fade-out, which I took to be Cuaron's little homage to the films of the 
French New Wave in the 60s (in particular Truffaut's  400 Blows, which 
totally coincidentally I saw again just last week) to get over some rather 
dodgy editing. No sign of that here: editor  Mick Audsley did a magnificent 
job with Roger Pratt's cinematography. I was particularly impressed with 
going from the World Cup match about to start to the Weasleys enthusing 
over the result, and even more by the transition from Harry about to grab 
the golden egg to the Gryffindor common room. Movie publicity doesn't make 
a big deal about editors and unlike directors or cinematographers, their 
names don't usually make it through to the public consciousness other than 
at awards ceremonies. Audsley is definitely a master of his craft and 
deserves a lot more recognition (and, I would hope, several nominations for 
this movie).

Of course, a lot of credit is also due to Mike Newell for keeping 
everything tight. There are a few difficulties with the adaptation, more on 
which in a moment, but there are plenty of little touches which lift this 
movie from Columbus's painting-by-numbers approach. I think he got the pace 
just right, which to a certain extent is more down to the plot, which gave 
him a fairly clear "5 act plus prologue and epilogue" structure, always 
easier to work with than the rather rambling middle acts to date.

Newell has a reputation as an "actor's director", and it shows. As I said 
above, despite his usual tree impression, Radcliffe manages to shine a few 
times, Rupert Grint is much better than he has been, and Emma is showing 
some true talent (and increasing beauty). Her appalling attempt at tears in 
CoS (on which I commented ad nauseam 3 years ago) is a distant memory, 
compared to her terrific performance after the Ball. Regardless of whether 
her girlie giggle on entering the Hall on Krum's arm was her idea or 
Newell's, it was perfectly done and a wonderful touch. A bit weaker, 
however, was the last scene, with the "everything's going to change" 
conversation - the Trio seem to be *amused* by the subject, rather than 
scared or worse!

Before I end by commenting on the adaptation, a short note on the music. 
I've been an admirer of Patrick Doyle's for some years and was glad to hear 
he was taking over from John Williams. I've had the soundtrack for a little 
over a week and have listened to it a lot, without referring to the sleeve 
notes (I wanted to let the music speak for itself during the movie rather 
than have any preconceptions about which musical cues went where). 
Immediately noticeable was the "darkening" of the few John Williams themes 
which were retained, in particular "Hedwig's Theme" and parts of "Harry's 
Wondrous World" (not quite so wondrous any more: this could be "Harry's 
Dangerous World"). Despite liking the music so much, I was grateful that 
the sound mix put it in its proper place, supporting the action on the 
screen, rather than dominating it, as it did for the first two movies, and 
still, although to a lesser extent, for the third.

I was overjoyed to learn a year ago that Steven Kloves was handing over 
screenwriting duties for the OotP movie to Michael Goldenberg. Apart from 
having actively enjoyed his work on Peter Pan and Contact, we've  all had 
our reservations about Kloves over the last five years. This time, he's 
used the book as much less of a source of dialogue, replacing much more of 
it with his own (and his own sense of humour). He has also, famously, had 
to do much more adapting of the plot to bring the movie in at a manageable 
running length. What surprised me was that, with just a couple of 
exceptions, the movie actually made more sense than the book, so perhaps 
Kloves is finally on the right track. Before going on to the two problems I 
can see, there are LOADS of adaptational touches for which I would like to 
heartily commend Mr Kloves. Here are a few which I can remember.

I never expected the final showdown scene in the hospital wing to be 
included, and this was confirmed to me when the title of the last chapter 
and one of the last lines in the book became one of the first lines in the 
film: instead of "parting of the ways" being a sad and perhaps angry 
statement about Dumbledore and the MoM, it becomes a lighthearted farewell 
between Mr Weasley and Mr Diggory at the QWC.

The brand new dialogue for Harry and Ron's reconciliation after the first 
task (in the book it works brilliantly as completely unspoken) and Ron's 
convoluted logic ("I told you about the dragons"), together with the 
earlier scene to which it refers with Hermione as go-between, was a master 
touch and a real understanding of teenage communication. I can't wait for 
the DVD to play both scenes over and over again.

Cutting out the whole SPEW sub-plot (and, indeed, Dobby & Winky themselves) 
was a great idea (personally, I'm hoping that whole race - including 
Kreacher! -is dropped from the rest of the movies unless Book Seven gives 
them some kind of important role in the final denouement), as was expanding 
Neville's role (inter alia by his getting the Gillyweed clue from 
crouch-Moody, despite missing it in the book) and having Ginny around a lot 
more.

I'm *extremely* glad that the movie skipped having the winner of the 
tournament get a sack of gold - it made it about glory and recognition, not 
money, which was in keeping with the theme of the movie - and indeed the 
book - without diluting it. Ron's problems with Harry were that he's 
*famous* enough, not *rich* enough - in fact, the whole Weasleys-are-poor 
thread was dropped completely. The twins getting the money to start the 
shop will need another explanation, but there are several I can think of.

However, a big problem with the re-plotted storyline is the whole Crouch 
family plot getting lost. The conversation Harry has with Crouch Sr. after 
the second task and Crouch's statement about losing one's family was a nod 
to the book readers, but wasn't explained for movie viewers' benefit. The 
fact that Crouch Jr. was meant to have (presumably quite recently) "escaped 
from Azkaban" was incongruous: in the background chronology, Sirius Black, 
"the only person ever to have escaped", did so a year earlier and is 
(presumably, unstated) still on the run. One would therefore expect that 
Azkaban is on the lookout for other dodgy activities.

In particular, when Harry tells Dumbledore that he's been seeing Barty Jr. 
in his dreams, Dumbledore presumably would have made enquiries about his 
status and discovered that he'd escaped. I really don't see a problem with 
keeping the "dead man dunnit" plot from the book, and I would've preferred 
a nod towards PoA: when Harry tells Dumbledore about his dreams, Dumbledore 
replies that "Barty Jr died in Azkaban"; "that's what everyone thought 
about Peter Pettigrew" is the immediate response. This also gives an 
immediate reason for Barty Sr. being killed - he'd have been the first port 
of call for an explanation. As things stand, the whole thing is a mess.

Not so good on the dialogue front are the "Cedric's memorial speech" scene, 
segueing into the Harry-Dumbledore explanation towards the end. I 
particularly couldn't see where the "choose what's easy/what's hard" bit 
came from in the private conversation - it really belonged in the speech to 
the whole school. Furthermore, non-book reading viewers will have been 
mystified by the priori incantantem reference: this needed an extra couple 
of sentences (no more!) to rmind viewers about the wand cores and the 
"apparitions": Dumbledore's dialogue as it stands seems to focus on 
entirely the wrong thing.

OK, four hours after I started writing this, I'm pretty much out of things 
to say (at least until I see the movie again and remember things I've 
forgotten to mention - next time I'll be taking notes!).

Two short items from the credits on which to finish:

Is William Melling ("Nigel": why on earth did Kloves have to invent a new 
character? Why not bring back the Creeveys?) any relation to Harry Melling 
(Dudley)?

"No dragons were harmed during the making of this film"

LOL!

--
Richard, previously AKA GulPlum, who was expecting someone to say "*DOCTOR* 
Who?" when Harry's asks "who's he?" regarding Barty Crouch Jr., i.e. David 
Tennant, AKA The Tenth Doctor (OK, how many non-Brits understand what I 
mean?) :-)

Off to read what other people have said now that I can no longer be spoiled...




From krussell98 at comcast.net  Fri Nov 18 20:54:21 2005
From: krussell98 at comcast.net (Kathi Russell)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 15:54:21 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Admin-type reminder ahead of Friday
References: <dljar1+cgr0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <041f01c5ec82$40d93ed0$6401a8c0@Dude>

Hi Kelly Elf,
I'm sure you are noticing that I am top-posting :) This gives you a clue as to my thoughts on the subject. In the main list, the conversation is so varied with such a high volume, that is truly necessary for the rules to be strictly enforced. If they weren't it would be chaos over there and it would be nearly impossible to have an intelligent discussion. As it is, it can still be difficult to follow some threads.
However, HPFGU-Movie is a much smaller group with less traffic.  Sure, it will be busy for the next week or so, but it will quiet down again quickly. While I agree it is important to be sure to credit the correct person with their comments, I don't think it is crucial that everything be bottom-posted. It would be nice if posts were snipped properly - but that's an art unto itself :)
Whatever the mods decide will be fine. You guys do so much work as it is - I don't think this should be a huge issue :)
Thanks for keeping this a pleasant, spam-free zone!
K

I've learned that whenever I decide something with an open heart, I
usually make the right decision.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Kelley 
  To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 8:30 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Admin-type reminder ahead of Friday


  Hi, everyone--

  <snip>


  So, basically, I was hesitant to fix anything if no one seemed to 
  feel it was broken.

  Now, I have a pretty good idea that feelings on this fall into 
  the usual categories -- some people hate the lack of adherence to 
  the rules and want the elves to crack down and clean things up; 
  some won't care one way or the other; and some will be strongly 
  against anything that changes how things have been recently.  

  Regardless, I'd still love to hear everyone's thoughts on any 
  of this. 

  <snip>


  --Kelley Elf



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From ctmikki at sbcglobal.net  Fri Nov 18 21:01:24 2005
From: ctmikki at sbcglobal.net (Mik)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 13:01:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: movie opinions/sherry
In-Reply-To: <003e01c5ec53$8505d5c0$0400a8c0@pensive>
Message-ID: <20051118210124.8154.qmail@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



Sherry Gomes <sherriola at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> I won't be going to the movie till next week, if then.  i 
have to find out if it's playing in a local theater equipped 
with Descriptive video service, since this seems to be a very 
visual movie.  However, i will be interested to hear opinions 
from everyone who gets to it sooner.  Especially from those who 
didn't particularly like the POA movie because of changes to 
plot or things left out.  POA was so disappointing to me, and 
so far, all i've read sounds like those who liked that one, 
like this one.  i can't wait to read what you all think! <<


One thing I do have to say-the director of POA really ruined it 
in my opinion, but GOF, that was awesome!!!  Kudos to the new 
director.  I think he made it a little less dark than they could 
have, which was a smart move for what is really in essence a kids 
movie.  I actually cried when Harry brought back Cedric's body.  
The jokes are cute, and it's serious when it needs to be.  I 
think all in all this will bring back everyone who was 
dissappointed in the last one.  I can't wait to see it again, 
and again, and again....
 
Anywho, I don't care what anyone thinks, those kids are great 
actors, and the twins are getting sooo cute.....and Daniel and 
Emma are really striking teenagers.
 
I hope everyone else enjoys it as much as I did, I was 
disappointed in one thing though, that they didn't break it up 
into 2 movies, lots were missing, but this time I don't think 
it affected the story line, like in did in POA....so not a bad 
thing thank goodness.
 
Another thing, they let the kids out a half day here, I have no 
idea why, so I didn't have the theater to myself like I had 
originally thought.  But it was ok.
 
mik





From HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com  Fri Nov 18 22:58:26 2005
From: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 18 Nov 2005 22:58:26 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-Movie 
Message-ID: <1132354706.303.77007.w105@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-Movie group:

Overall, what was your impression of the GoF Movie?
 

  o Loved it!  
  o It was OK, but I have small reservations 
  o It was OK, but I have major reservations 
  o Disliked it,  despite a few neat touches  
  o Hated it! 


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Movie/surveys?id=12191275 

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 









From HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com  Fri Nov 18 23:00:00 2005
From: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 18 Nov 2005 23:00:00 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-Movie 
Message-ID: <1132354800.68.58311.w119@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-Movie group:

Which is your favourite HP Movie? 

  o Philosopher's/Sorcerer's Stone 
  o Chamber of Secrets 
  o Prisoner of Azkaban 
  o Goblet of Fire 


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Movie/surveys?id=12191277 

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 








From hickengruendler at yahoo.de  Fri Nov 18 23:04:14 2005
From: hickengruendler at yahoo.de (hickengruendler)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 23:04:14 -0000
Subject: movie opinions
In-Reply-To: <003e01c5ec53$8505d5c0$0400a8c0@pensive>
Message-ID: <dllmle+b6lp@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Sherry Gomes" <sherriola at e...> 
wrote:
>
> I won't be going to the movie till next week, if then.  i have to 
find out
> if it's playing in a local theater equipped with Descriptive video 
service,
> since this seems to be a very visual movie.  However, i will be 
interested
> to hear opinions from everyone who gets to it sooner.  Especially 
from those
> who didn't particularly like the POA movie because of changes to 
plot or
> things left out.  POA was so disappointing to me, and so far, all 
i've read
> sounds like those who liked that one, like this one.  i can't wait 
to read
> what you all think!
> 
> Sherry
>

Hickengruendler:

I liked PoA, therefore I might not be the right person to answer you 
here, but in spite of the fact that several scenes were cut (due to 
the length of the book), I think it is closer to the books than the 
PoA movie was. IMO; everything they cut in GoF were things they could 
cut or simplify, while the biggest flaw in PoA was that they cut the 
Marauders explanation, of all things. 

S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S 

I think the biggest change was, that Crouch senior seemed much nicer 
than in the book. You can't really call him a sympathetic, but he was 
not unlikeable in the movie either (despite of looking like Hitler). 
Everyone else was pretty much in character, and that includes 
Dumbledore, for the most part. There was only one scene, where he 
acted OOC, which was after the Champions were chosen. I find it a bit 
unfair, that many fans seem to judge movie Dumbledore solely by that 
scene currently, because I think it's the exception rather than the 
rule. The houseleves were gone, Rita was there, but the Beetle 
storyline wasn't. The Crouch family tragedy was simplified a bit. 
Molly and the older Weasley sons are missing, as are the Dursleys. 
These were the biggst changes, and I can't say that I really minded 
any of them.

Very good movie. 







From HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com  Fri Nov 18 23:06:52 2005
From: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 18 Nov 2005 23:06:52 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-Movie 
Message-ID: <1132355212.192.45936.w123@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-Movie group:

Which is your favourite sequence in Goblet of Fire? 

  o First Task 
  o Bath scene 
  o Second Task 
  o Yule Ball 
  o Third Task 
  o Cemetary Scene 
  o Any scene with the Weasley Twins 
  o Any Ron/Harry/Hermione scene (or any combination) 
  o Something else 


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Movie/surveys?id=12191289 

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 








From HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com  Fri Nov 18 23:12:27 2005
From: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 18 Nov 2005 23:12:27 -0000
Subject: Poll results for HPFGU-Movie 
Message-ID: <1132355547.83.46554.w123@yahoogroups.com>


The following HPFGU-Movie poll is now closed.  Here are the 
final results: 


POLL QUESTION: Overall, did you like the PoA Movie? 

CHOICES AND RESULTS
- Loved it!, 45 votes, 34.88%  
- Yes, with small reservations, 49 votes, 37.98%  
- Yes, with large reservations, 21 votes, 16.28%  
- No, despite a few neat touches, 10 votes, 7.75%  
- Not at all! , 4 votes, 3.10%  



For more information about this group, please visit 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Movie 

For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ 

 








From HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com  Fri Nov 18 23:12:08 2005
From: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 18 Nov 2005 23:12:08 -0000
Subject: Poll results for HPFGU-Movie 
Message-ID: <1132355529.174.25628.w116@yahoogroups.com>


The following HPFGU-Movie poll is now closed.  Here are the 
final results: 


POLL QUESTION: In what order do you rate the first 
three HP movies (favourite first)? 

CHOICES AND RESULTS
- Philosopher's/Sorcerer's Stone, Chamber of Secrets, Prisoner of Azkaban, 14 votes, 11.76%  
- Philosopher's/Sorcerer's Stone, Prisoner of Azkaban, Chamber of Secrets, 7 votes, 5.88%  
- Chamber of Secrets, Philosopher's/Sorcerer's Stone, Prisoner of Azkaban, 5 votes, 4.20%  
- Chamber of Secrets, Prisoner of Azkaban, Philosopher's/Sorcerer's Stone, 1 votes, 0.84%  
- Prisoner of Azkaban, Philosopher's/Sorcerer's Stone, Chamber of Secrets, 45 votes, 37.82%  
- Prisoner of Azkaban, Chamber of Secrets, Philosopher's/Sorcerer's Stone, 47 votes, 39.50%  



For more information about this group, please visit 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Movie 

For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ 

 








From tallcarabians at sbcglobal.net  Fri Nov 18 23:43:37 2005
From: tallcarabians at sbcglobal.net (Rae Callaway)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:43:37 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: movie opinions (POA)
In-Reply-To: <dllmle+b6lp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.21.1576048065.5049.hpfgu-movie@archive.hpfgu.org>



-----Original Message-----
I liked PoA, therefore I might not be the right person to answer you 
here, but in spite of the fact that several scenes were cut (due to 
the length of the book), I think it is closer to the books than the 
PoA movie was. IMO; everything they cut in GoF were things they could 
cut or simplify, while the biggest flaw in PoA was that they cut the 
Marauders explanation, of all things. 



Me:  I guess I really don't see why leaving the Marauders explanation out of
POA was such a big thing.  I haven't seen anything in the following books
that hinges on James et al creating that map.  Sure, it's a fun little plot
item that everyone seems to love, but I don't see it being so important to
the overall Harry vs. Voldemort plot.

Rae





From mike4521daron at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 19 00:10:15 2005
From: mike4521daron at yahoo.com (mike4521daron)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 00:10:15 -0000
Subject: Join me
Message-ID: <dllqh7+5rjk@eGroups.com>



Hiya!

Come join me at 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hogwort-wizardette.
you won't regret it.

Mike Daron (owner)






From mike4521daron at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 19 00:16:00 2005
From: mike4521daron at yahoo.com (mike4521daron)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 00:16:00 -0000
Subject: Join me
In-Reply-To: <dllqh7+5rjk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dllqs0+db0h@eGroups.com>


Spelling correction: hogwart



--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "mike4521daron" 
<mike4521daron at y...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> Hiya!
> 
> Come join me at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hogwort-wizardette.
> you won't regret it.
> 
> Mike Daron (owner)
>








From hp at plum.cream.org  Sat Nov 19 00:50:08 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 00:50:08 +0000
Subject: PoA/Marauders (was Re: GOF movie opinions)
In-Reply-To: <dllmle+b6lp@eGroups.com>
References: <003e01c5ec53$8505d5c0$0400a8c0@pensive>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051118232221.00b37dd0@plum.cream.org>

At 23:04 18/11/2005 , hickengruendler wrote:

>I liked PoA, therefore I might not be the right person to answer you
>here, but in spite of the fact that several scenes were cut (due to
>the length of the book), I think it is closer to the books than the
>PoA movie was. IMO; everything they cut in GoF were things they could
>cut or simplify, while the biggest flaw in PoA was that they cut the
>Marauders explanation, of all things.

<snip GoF discussion>

I can't find it right now, but I defended the decision not to name the 
Marauders in PoA at the time by saying that it could have come up in GoF 
during one of many possible Harry/Sirius bonding scenes, especially as the 
"motivation" behind so much of the GoF plot is about fathers and sons. For 
anyone who needs an explanation, the Diggorys, the Riddles, the Crouches, 
Harry and James via the Priori Incantatem, and to a lesser extent the 
Weasleys (inasmuch as the QWC was partially a bonding exercise). And in a 
very subtle way, we have the Longbottoms to top it off, and a few 
non-biological parental relationships, which could be summed up as Harry's 
search for a father figure: Dumbledore? Sirius? Moody? Voldemort (he'd want 
it!)?

Of course, there were no bonding scenes and so the whole thing is academic. 
Some of the comments I've read since seeing GoF (I've been working my way 
through a LONG list of bookmarks which I've been keeping instead of 
reading/watching stuff over the last month or so) from Heyman and Columbus 
in particular, indicate that removing the Marauders explanation wasn't a 
universally popular decision, but it seems that that had been the plan 
pretty much from the start of Cuaron's involvement.

Even so, if anyone involved in the movie-making process (notably, Heyman - 
he is, after all the producer, and the buck stops with him!) wants to 
re-insert the information into the plot at any future point, they can do 
so. There are plenty of opportunities in OotP to include that information, 
seeing as Lupin and Black are (or at least should be) pretty actively 
involved in the plot. Whilst adapting OotP might be a little difficult, my 
personal view is that whole swathes of the book can be dismissed out of 
hand and I predict that the movie could actually be considerably better 
than the book, if done properly.

On the other hand, the team managed to tell the story of GoF (more or 
less...) without using the Map at all, and off the top of my head, it isn't 
REALLY significant in the two books we've had since, so they might just 
drop the whole thing, and this will be the one thing which PoA leaves 
unexplained - each of the movies to date has left at least one gaping hole 
in the middle of the plot, and this is PoA's (see my review for my view on 
GoF).

The interesting thing is that the "MWPP=RPSJ" appears to have caused 
considerably more fan discontent than any other missing element from any of 
the films (well, we're not yet able to generalise about GoF) - could this 
be because so many fans have such a connection with Sirius and/or Remus? :-)

So whilst I can understand that attachment to the characters leads to a 
major disappointment with that missing explanation, what I can't understand 
is the number of people for whom that element is sufficient to dismiss the 
entire movie out of hand.

As people may have noticed, I've closed down the polls I started 18 months 
ago about rating PoA and the fact remains that of the approx. 120 people 
who voted (c'mon, this list has got almost 3,500 members - why so few 
votes?), over 70% rated the movie highly in one poll (versus around 25% 
disliking it, and only 4 people going so far as to hate it); at the same 
time, in the other poll, closer to 80% of people named it as their 
favourite of the 3 movies to date.

I'm not entirely sure what conclusions I'm actually drawing from this 
juxtaposition, apart from the fact that those who actively detested PoA 
seem to be considerably more vocal than those who actively liked it, 
despite being a tiny minority. Or, putting it the other way, liking PoA 
isn't the "minority sport" that some people seem to believe it is: the 
majority of people seem to be able to forgive the one (if considerable) 
lapse of omitting the Map's authorship and see other values in the movie 
and its adaptation - although I must admit that GoF has done an even better 
job.

I don't believe anyone should feel the need to apologise for liking PoA - 
the numbers certainly indicate that we're far from being alone! :-)

--
Richartd AKA GulPlum, who's beginning to ramble and had better shut up



From sherriola at earthlink.net  Sat Nov 19 01:52:53 2005
From: sherriola at earthlink.net (Sherry Gomes)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:52:53 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] POA/Marauders (was Re: GOF movie opinions)
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20051118232221.00b37dd0@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <00ab01c5ecab$f59a2590$0400a8c0@pensive>

I don't believe anyone should feel the need to apologise for liking POA - 
the numbers certainly indicate that we're far from being alone! :-)

--
Richartd AKA GulPlum, who's beginning to ramble and had better shut up



Sherry:

i absolutely agree with you.  i did not like it, and I don't apologize for
that, so why should people who do like it feel the need to apologize.  Yes,
for me, it was the MWPP primarily, but not only that.  As to why leaving out
the marauders back story bugs people, maybe it's the whole connection with
Harry's father.  The book really gives a feeling of the depth of the bond of
those four friends, and for me, at least, beyond the fact of just really
liking Sirius and Lupin, i loved the way it gave Harry some sense of family.
That's hard to explain.  But I felt closer to James, by reading the history
of the marauders.  I loved the idea of the friends working to learn how to
do something that would help their friend during his werewolf
transformations.  i used to wish that at least one of my friends would learn
Braille, when I was in high school, mild I know compared to becoming an
animagus to help your werewolf friend, but perhaps it's that same kind  of
thing.  friendship is just about the most important thing in the world to
me, and for some reason, the marauders seemed to show the depth of what it
means, even more than the friendship between Harry and his two best friends.
Not till the end of HBP, did I feel that same sense of depth with the trio.

As for the POA movie, well, it bored me.  Ok, I am blind, so all the things
that have been praised about it visually, don't do a thing for me.  But
though I've often been asked how I can enjoy movies, i've been a movie nut
since as far back as I can remember.  I just love them.  i didn't like the
Aunt Marge scene, because first of all, there wasn't enough build up to how
rotten she really was, so Harry's losing control didn't have the same punch.
But then the whole scene went on soooo long and got boring.  I didn't like
the Knight bus with the weird driver or a few of the other things i couldn't
really understand since i couldn't see it.  The boggart scene though funny
didn't really mean much in the movie, because we never saw Snape threaten
Neville's toad.  so why was Snape Neville's greatest fear?  Well, and then
of course, super girl Hermione, and that ridiculous werewolf call and more
taking of the lines that belonged to other characters like Harry and Ron.
In fact, after every movie, I have to go back and read the book to remind
myself why I like Hermione, because the movies make me dislike her.  I admit
that sometimes, it's simple sentiment.  I didn't like them changing Sirius'
last line to be a compliment to Hermione instead of telling Harry he truly
was his father's son.  Oh, and Quidditch.  though I thoroughly sympathize
with JKR about being glad she's not going to write another Quidditch game,
and I've gotten pretty tired of them in the books, too, Quidditch was very
important in POA, winning the house Cup and the Quidditch Cup.  Each
Quidditch game was significant in the story as well--the real dementors, the
fake ones and the final win.  The whole Firebolt plot, while I suppose not
necessary to the story brought some good tension between the trio.  

Oh, and one big one for me, which may not have mattered to sighted people
was the dementors.  In the book, Harry hears his parents when Voldemort
attacks.  He hears his mother begging, hears his father telling her to run.
That was incredibly powerful imagery for me when reading the books.  It made
the dementors frightening, made their effect on Harry very real and
believable for me.  The movie version didn't raise so much as a hair on the
back of my neck and left me thinking, ... gee, is that all?

Sherry




From bethz1 at rcn.com  Sat Nov 19 01:53:15 2005
From: bethz1 at rcn.com (Ms. Found in a Bottle)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 20:53:15 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] movie opinions
In-Reply-To: <003e01c5ec53$8505d5c0$0400a8c0@pensive>
References: <003e01c5ec53$8505d5c0$0400a8c0@pensive>
Message-ID: <437E858B.3070502@rcn.com>

I went to the midnight show with my sister and one of our friends.  When 
it came to what they decided to leave out and what they kept in, my 
first reaction when the movie ended was that I was least disappointed 
with this movie .  I thought it flowed well, and was afraid that it was 
going to be just 'task - task - task', but was glad that there was 
more.  The only thing I was slightly disappointed with was Harry and the 
dragon leaving the stadium during the 1st task, but I found the 3rd task 
and the grave yard scenes thrilling; I knew how it ended and I was still 
on the edge of my seat.

Of course, I just realized that I'm not sure if I'm qualified to answer 
this post.  I did like POA (saw it in the theatre more times than the 
first two films), but I was disappointed with it.  POA is my favorite of 
the books, so I had very high hopes for that movie, but then decided to 
just enjoy it as a movie rather than an interpretation of a book.  I 
thought that POA also flowed quite well; I don't think the past two 
films (POA & GOF) seemed as rushed as the first two.

Beth

Sherry Gomes wrote:

>However, i will be interested
>to hear opinions from everyone who gets to it sooner.  Especially from those
>who didn't particularly like the POA movie because of changes to plot or
>things left out.  POA was so disappointing to me, and so far, all i've read
>sounds like those who liked that one, like this one.  i can't wait to read
>what you all think!
>  
>



From daughterofthedust at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 19 02:36:51 2005
From: daughterofthedust at yahoo.com (daughterofthedust)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 02:36:51 -0000
Subject: Why The Lack of Padfoot, Prongs, etc...Explanation  (GOF SPOILERS) Sucked
Message-ID: <dlm343+l9in@eGroups.com>

---note to admin: this is a double post. the first was full of errors
please, delete it--


 Okay, so I was one of the folks who defended the lack of any
explanation about Padfoot, Prongs, etc...

I said the fact that it wasn't in the film actually, enriched it, in
that I prefer to discover new things with every viewing. An
intelligent novice might realize the connection after his/her second or
third viewing.

It didn't condescend, by spelling it out. The director trusted his
audience to make the connections....

...HOWEVER, having seen GOF, I think I finally understand the REAL rub.

I had a problem with the excision of the explanation about Neville's
parents' torture because that was a REAL opportunity to explore some
complex deep-seated emotions. It could have made for a very engaging
scene...And not in the "We'll see this from the book, FINALLY!" way
that much of the Potter franchise has.

It could've created POWERFUL empathy for Neville's character, beyond
confusion about "Why does a spider being tortured, make him make
funny faces?" and his awkwardness...

Sure...much like Azkaban his parents' names (as the alias' Padfoot
etc..) are mentioned but the connection wasn't made at the point of
the most optimal time for emotional resonance!!

And isn't that the point of making a movie in the first place??

I think THAT is the problem with the Marauder's Map thing. Just think
of all the potential for geniuine, emotional, pull, they 86ed. The
potential to get real tears. For the audience would then realize, that
*gasp!* his father WAS there. There's also the solidified notion
of JUST who was in Jame's clique, and the realization that the elder
Potter and friends WERE indeed trouble-makers.

Had both been included they would've been great examples of "show
don't tell", which ironically, is the exact opposite thought I'd
initially had about it.


...Ain't that sumthin'?






From evilemperorcassandra at gmail.com  Sat Nov 19 03:38:57 2005
From: evilemperorcassandra at gmail.com (Cassandra Wladyslava)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 22:38:57 -0500
Subject: GOF Movie : My Thoughts
Message-ID: <bafa0f350511181938j6ffbf42bofa83bbd3db44a53a@mail.gmail.com>

Well, like many people on this list I went and saw the GOF movie today. I
have to admit, I had mixed feelings about it.
 I thought some of the movie was a bit too jumpy. They seemed to just gleen
the important points, which I suppose worked for time. But there were times
when I think they should've slowed down. Like in the Pensieve scene. I
would've liked to see Harry reaction to the torture of Neville's parents (or
his putting two and two together) and his reaction to Snape being a former
DE. Just a simple reaction shot would've sufficed.
 Krum was a lot different from what I expected. I don't think it took away
from the film, though.
 Filch...my my....that's all I have to say on that.
 Snape. Little part, but I loved him. I would still like to see more of the
hate/hate relationship between Snape and Harry...but at this stage in the
game I don't think that's going to happen. Maybe later they'll grow to hate
each other...
 I miss the old Flitwick.
 Hagrid and Madame Maxime were so cute! hehehe. Loved the dancing and the
'wandering hands'. And Hagrid stabbing Flitwick.
 I'm sorry, but I do not like Gambon's Dumbledore. Especially in the scene
where he gives Harry the 3rd degree about his name being in the goblet. I
really don't think Gambon was the best choice for Dumbledore. To me,
Dumbledore is like Hannibal Lector. Most of the time he's quiet and reserved
and then BAM! He bites your face!
 The whole Crouch storyline was very weak, which made the death of Crouch
Sr. seem very weak as well. There wasn't any explaination for it.
  Moody! I loved him! Great Great GREAT performance! I think a favorite
scene of mine was the one where he looked at Crouch (his father).
Moody/Crouch Jr's reaction to seeing his father was brilliant.
 The twins! lol!
 And Neville...I was surprised he got a larger role in this one. I'm happy,
though. I enjoyed his scenes. the 'practicing for the dance' was cute ^^
 Voldemort...you could definately tell it was Fiennes. Not that that's bad.
I have mixed feelings about the birthing seen. I have a feeling that someone
who hadn't read the books might be like. "The Hell?" because it seemed to
pop out of nowhere. I thought he had too much energy. I wanted him to stop
moving around. I don't know why this bothered me. I just always imagined
Voldy as being very dark and serious.
 My favorite scene was when Harry brought Cedric's body back. There was
something a lot more powerful and disturbing about that happy, triumphant
music playing and everyone cheering than if there had been an automatic
panic. And then the realization of what had happened...the whole thing made
the emotion of the scene much more powerful. I actually cried.
 Nigel...why?
 I liked McGonagall.
  Ok...those are my thoughts. I may have more..but...I don't...yet.
 ~Cassie~


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From evilemperorcassandra at gmail.com  Sat Nov 19 03:45:50 2005
From: evilemperorcassandra at gmail.com (Cassandra Wladyslava)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 22:45:50 -0500
Subject: GOF Movie : My Thoughts
In-Reply-To: <bafa0f350511181938j6ffbf42bofa83bbd3db44a53a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bafa0f350511181938j6ffbf42bofa83bbd3db44a53a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bafa0f350511181945uf6977i3a409bdde4a69c4c@mail.gmail.com>

Oh! One more thing!
 The Death Eater costumes! Those were great. Did anyone else think KKK? I've
never had a clear picture of what they would look like....now I'd be
absolutely terrified if I saw them walking down the street.

 On 11/18/05, Cassandra Wladyslava <evilemperorcassandra at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well, like many people on this list I went and saw the GOF movie today. I
> have to admit, I had mixed feelings about it.
>  I thought some of the movie was a bit too jumpy. They seemed to just
> gleen the important points, which I suppose worked for time. But there were
> times when I think they should've slowed down. Like in the Pensieve scene. I
> would've liked to see Harry reaction to the torture of Neville's parents (or
> his putting two and two together) and his reaction to Snape being a former
> DE. Just a simple reaction shot would've sufficed.
>  Krum was a lot different from what I expected. I don't think it took away
> from the film, though.
>  Filch...my my....that's all I have to say on that.
>  Snape. Little part, but I loved him. I would still like to see more of
> the hate/hate relationship between Snape and Harry...but at this stage in
> the game I don't think that's going to happen. Maybe later they'll grow to
> hate each other...
>  I miss the old Flitwick.
>  Hagrid and Madame Maxime were so cute! hehehe. Loved the dancing and the
> 'wandering hands'. And Hagrid stabbing Flitwick.
>  I'm sorry, but I do not like Gambon's Dumbledore. Especially in the scene
> where he gives Harry the 3rd degree about his name being in the goblet. I
> really don't think Gambon was the best choice for Dumbledore. To me,
> Dumbledore is like Hannibal Lector. Most of the time he's quiet and reserved
> and then BAM! He bites your face!
>  The whole Crouch storyline was very weak, which made the death of Crouch
> Sr. seem very weak as well. There wasn't any explaination for it.
>   Moody! I loved him! Great Great GREAT performance! I think a favorite
> scene of mine was the one where he looked at Crouch (his father).
> Moody/Crouch Jr's reaction to seeing his father was brilliant.
>  The twins! lol!
>  And Neville...I was surprised he got a larger role in this one. I'm
> happy, though. I enjoyed his scenes. the 'practicing for the dance' was cute
> ^^
>  Voldemort...you could definately tell it was Fiennes. Not that that's
> bad. I have mixed feelings about the birthing seen. I have a feeling that
> someone who hadn't read the books might be like. "The Hell?" because it
> seemed to pop out of nowhere. I thought he had too much energy. I wanted him
> to stop moving around. I don't know why this bothered me. I just always
> imagined Voldy as being very dark and serious.
>  My favorite scene was when Harry brought Cedric's body back. There was
> something a lot more powerful and disturbing about that happy, triumphant
> music playing and everyone cheering than if there had been an automatic
> panic. And then the realization of what had happened...the whole thing made
> the emotion of the scene much more powerful. I actually cried.
>  Nigel...why?
>  I liked McGonagall.
>   Ok...those are my thoughts. I may have more..but...I don't...yet.
>  ~Cassie~
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 19 05:15:19 2005
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora67)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 05:15:19 -0000
Subject: GOF Movie : My Thoughts
In-Reply-To: <bafa0f350511181945uf6977i3a409bdde4a69c4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dlmcd7+71ol@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Cassandra Wladyslava 
<evilemperorcassandra at g...> wrote:
>
> Oh! One more thing!
>  The Death Eater costumes! Those were great. Did anyone else think 
KKK? I've
> never had a clear picture of what they would look like....now I'd be
> absolutely terrified if I saw them walking down the street.
> 


I thought they were very KKK also, and very scary!

Alora :)







From hickengruendler at yahoo.de  Sat Nov 19 09:11:34 2005
From: hickengruendler at yahoo.de (hickengruendler)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 09:11:34 -0000
Subject: movie opinions (POA)
Message-ID: <dlmq86+e9h1@eGroups.com>

 
> Me:  I guess I really don't see why leaving the Marauders explanation 
out of
> POA was such a big thing.  I haven't seen anything in the following 
books
> that hinges on James et al creating that map.  Sure, it's a fun 
little plot
> item that everyone seems to love, but I don't see it being so 
important to
> the overall Harry vs. Voldemort plot.
> 
> Rae

Hickengruendler:

Yes, I should have made my meaning cleaner. What I meant was, that they 
should have explained the nicknames and the real importance of the 
stag. The whole story was not necessary, but the explanation of why it 
is that significant, that Harry's patronus was a stag, had to be there. 







From dianasdolls at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 19 09:47:18 2005
From: dianasdolls at yahoo.com (Diana)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 09:47:18 -0000
Subject: Initial review by Diana L.
Message-ID: <dlmsb6+os10@eGroups.com>

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E

G
O
E
S

H
E
R
E
!

Saw it for the first time tonight and have come home with mixed 
feelings.  Overall, I like the movie, but there are several 'huh?' 
moments which bothered me after the fact, though a couple bugged 
during the movie.  I'll get what bothered me about the movie out of 
the way first.  

The major 'huh?' for me was the vastly abbreviated life and death of 
Barty Crouch Sr.  No mad babbling?  No explanation or even mention 
that Crouch Sr was under the imperious curse?  No mysterious 
disappearance?  Just him dead on the ground and a jump cut to Harry 
going to Dumbledore's office (how long?) after the fact for some 
unknown reason?  No reactions at all from students, teachers and the 
visiting schools to the murder of a Tri-Wizard judge on Hogwarts 
grounds?  To me, this entire important sub-story was botched.  This 
one bothered me as I was watching the movie.

More moments that defied explanation were:

Barty Crouch Jr. wasn't presumed dead in Azkaban years ago in the 
movie like he was in the book.  Why change this from the book?  
Couldn't Dumbledore have inquired about Crouch Jr.'s status at the 
prison once Harry had revealed to him that he'd seen this guy in his 
dreams?  This exremely important plot point was THE reason behind 
Crouch Sr.' being murdered by his son.  Can't have dad spill the 
beans that son wasn't really dead, could he, so he had to be 
eliminated.  Without it, there was no motivation to immediately kill 
Crouch Sr. because he could spill the beans.  

Krum's eyes were clouded over due to the Imperious curse?  HUH?  
Then why was this curse such a problem for the Ministry if the 
victim's eyes cloud over while in effect?  Was this a red herring 
for the five audience members who didn't know that Voldemort, 
through Moody!Barty Jr. was controlling Krum?  The red herring 
planted in plain site was Dumbledore's plainly bizarre comments at 
the beginning of the maze telling the contestants that the "maze 
changes people".  What in the heck was that nonsense about?  If his 
words were just to set up Cataract!Krum, then why bother to 
introduce the Imperious curse earlier in the movie?  The whole point 
in the book of having Cedric and Harry bewildered as to why Krum, 
who both thought was a good guy, would attack them just to win the 
Tri-Wizard tournament was because it tied in nicely with the 
problems that the Ministry had with the Imperious curse - who's 
lying and who's really a victim?   

Dumbledore practically tackling Harry after his name came out of the 
Goblet threw me for a loop.  Dramatics is one thing, but his near 
assault of Harry is not in character.  DD burned Umbridge's hands 
when she shook a student, so him backing Harry into a table full of 
trophies and grabbing him by the shoulders and lightly shaking him 
just does not fit DD's style.  

No confrontation between Dumbledore and Fudge about what Harry says 
happened and what Fudge wants to pretend didn't happen?  Kind of an 
important thing to cut.  The beginning of the dispute between the 
Voldemort's-back-half and the no-he's-not-half of the WW at the end 
sets up the uneasiness building in books five and six.  In fact, the 
entire fifth book is about the consequences of that disagreement. 

The shortened and de-monsterfied maze was an interesting choice.  
While I can understand they didn't want to overshadow the graveyard 
scenes, a few magic beasties and mystical spells that turned the 
world upside down would have been nice.  Killer zipper-closing 
hedges and people-eating roots were a strange replacement.   

I'll probably think of more after I've seen it a second time.  Now 
on to some things I really liked about the movie.

The first task was awesome!  Loved the dragon, the close calls and 
the derring do!  I acknowledge it was much longer than as presented 
in the book, but as it's own piece in the movie, I enjoyed it 
tremendously.  

The second task was also very well done with the floating hostages, 
Fleur and Cedric's bubble-head charms, Krum's half-formed shark and 
eerie undersea plants and creatures.  I liked all of it, though 
Harry's shooting himself out of the water like a rocket before he 
drowned will need a re-watching before I decide on that one.

Hermione coming down the steps to meet Krum at the ball and the 
entire fight between her and Ron were excellent.  True to the spirit 
of the book while equally funny and painful to watch.  

Harry's bringing Cedric's body back to Hogwarts.  Appropriately gut-
wrenching and sad.  Made me feel sad about Cedric dying all over 
again.  And I felt a great deal of sympathy for what Harry had just 
gone through.  The scene was well-scripted and acted.

Neville's practicing dancing alone in his dormroom was a very nice 
character moment.  His joy at being one of the last to return to his 
room after the ball made me smile.  The writer removing Ginny's 
earlier disappointment at not being able to go with Harry because 
she had already agreed to go with Neville added to the Neville-love 
present in this movie.  It was nice to see his character get, well, 
some character!

Harry's frantic bubble-scooping in the bath was wonderfully amusing -
 a great addition to his encounter with Moaning Myrtle in the 
prefect's bathroom.  Myrtle did help him after all and should get 
some *reward* for that, even if it to purposely embarass him in the 
tub.  LOL  

The twins were great all the way around.  Their betting business, 
allowed to flourish with the missing Ludo Bagman not taking all 
their gold at the QWC, was quite funny.

Yay, more Ginny!  Since she'll be a major character in book six it's 
nice to see them beefing up her part now and not cramming it all 
into movie five, or worse, movie six.   

Now, onto plot changes and omissions I didn't really have a problem 
with as well stuff I was glad to see made the movie.  I'm sure some 
will have major problems with a few of these.

I don't miss Ludo Bagman as much as I thought I would.  In fact I 
didn't miss him at all.  I also didn't miss Molly Weasley, either, 
but then she's been little more than a cameo in the last couple 
movies.  

I didn't miss Voldemort's long, drawn-out 'pity-me-villian-monologue-
that-explains-everything' speech.  I had a few problems with 
Voldemort, but it was his speaking voice and spryness I wasn't fond 
of, not his lack of lengthy speeches.  I picture Voldemort as having 
a deeper voice and a more quiet/still demeanor.  I didn't realize it 
until just now, but when reading the books I pictured the demeanor 
and voice of Jafar from the Disney Aladdin movie!  Sure, it's 
animated, but the demeanor and voice were spot on for my vision of 
Voldemort.  Fiennes voice was too breathy and he was too boyouant 
for my vision, though he was definitely creepy and over-confident 
like in the books.  

All of SPEW was missing and I was grateful.  Those were always the 
least enjoyable sections of the book for me as I was more anxious to 
read the advances in the main plot-lines instead.  While several of 
Dobby's scenes in the books were fun, they didn't need to be in the 
movie.  

I liked that the "Potter Stinks" buttons made it into the movie!  It 
shows how rough Harry was having it with only a few lines.  

No fight between Hagrid and Olympe.  Surprisingly I didn't miss it 
at all once I realized we weren't going to see any of it.  

I did miss the scene where Harry's leg gets caught in the stair and 
he nearly gets discovered by Snape, but only a little bit and I can 
understand why it was cut.  

Greatly enjoyed the amazing bouncing ferret scene!  If it had only 
had lasted a little bit longer.  LOL 

Harry's dreamy looks after seeing/talking to Cho were amusing and 
well-done.  They made me think of my childhood crushes.  

Some scenes I did miss were:

Percy being called Weatherby by Crouch Sr. in front of the twins.

Krum confronting Harry about Hermione because he regarded Harry as 
competition for her affections....and Harry's reaction when he 
realizes this.  

Harry throwing off Voldemort's Imperious curse at the graveyard and 
Voldie's surprise at this.  

That's all I can think of at the moment.  It'll be interesting to 
read what others think of the movie.

Diana L.









From tonks_op at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 19 07:28:11 2005
From: tonks_op at yahoo.com (Tonks)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 07:28:11 -0000
Subject: movie opinions
In-Reply-To: <003e01c5ec53$8505d5c0$0400a8c0@pensive>
Message-ID: <dlmk6b+jodq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Sherry Gomes" <sherriola at e...> 
wrote:
>
 i will be interested to hear opinions from everyone who gets to it 
sooner.  Especially from those who didn't particularly like the POA 
movie because of changes to plot or things left out.  POA was so 
disappointing to me, and so far, all i've read sounds like those who 
liked that one, like this one.  i can't wait to read what you all think!


Tonks here:

I did not like POA all that much, but I liked this one. What I didn't 
like about POA was that they wore Muggle clothes most of the time. I 
didn't pay much attention to clothes this time which I think must mean 
that they were in robes more. 

There were a lot of special effects that were good. The twins were 
great. I never really cared for the twins one way or the other before, 
but I really liked them in this movie. They are cute kids too. And 
Neville can dance! Ron and Harry were sitting like wallflowers and 
Neville was really 'cutting a rug' as they say. Madam Maxima is taller 
than Hagrid, which was a shock. Guess they did that to point up the 
fact that she was half giant.

Snape didn't have much of a part, to my disappointment. And DD was a 
total jerk. That man can not act, if you ask me. He just doesn't "get 
it" when it comes to the person of DD. He grabbed Harry and shook him 
like you would expect from Uncle Vernon, not from our kind, loving, all 
knowing, and therefor forgiving DD. I am really bothered about the 
image that this actor is giving the world. DD is, other than Harry, the 
central character in the series. He represents all that is good, all 
that is holy. I wish JKR had something to say about that, because I am 
sure that she would not like to see DD shown in that way.

Having said all of this, I did like the movie. My favorite is the first 
movie and GOF is my second favorite. POA was my least favorite.

The graveyard scene was well done (not too much blood and gore that 
would have scared younger kids) and Cedric's death was very moving. The 
heartwrenching screams and crying of his father was the most touching 
scene in the movie. It took the place of the scene with Harry in the 
hospital and the hug from Molly. It has a simular impact on the 
audience.

Another problem with the movie is that it did not give any lead-in to 
some of the scenes. Someone who had not read the books (and there are 
many who only see the movies) would be rather lost. There wasn't the 
proper setup for some things and it left folks saying "what was 
that?" "Who is that?" and so on. If you had read the books you would be 
OK, but not everyone has.
 
I am going to see it again tomorrow. I like to look at the costumes the 
second time. Oh, and I went dressed as a death eater (Bella). Felt a 
bit sheepish at the end, fearful that some would hate me, but I got 
back to my car OK. ;-)

Tonks_op








From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Sat Nov 19 14:45:44 2005
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 14:45:44 -0000
Subject: Random ramblings on GoF
Message-ID: <dlndqo+sh2o@eGroups.com>

Re: missing scenes, good and bad.

GLAD Winky & Dobby were gone (though it made some adjustments to the 
story necessary, which probably made the story harder for non-fans 
to follow).

GLAD S.P.E.W. was eliminated.

DISAPPOINTED there was no "Snape shows Fudge his Dark Mark" scene

DISAPPOINTED there was no Molly hug nor Sirius-Snape handshake in 
the hospital wing.  I mean, I *knew* there would be no Molly hug, 
and I knew Gary Oldman's only "appearance" was in the flames, so I'd 
guessed the entire hospital wing scene would be eliminated, but it 
still bummed me out.  Yes, the "replacement" scene of DD with Harry 
in his dorm room was *excellent,* imo (Gambon felt very canon!DD to 
me in that scene), but still....

MISSED the actual "tasks within the task" of the maze.  I do 
understand why they eliminated them, and the way it was done was 
striking, visually, but I did so enjoy all of that in the book.

(Loved, btw, Diana's "cataract!Krum" -- hee!  A reasonable 
complaint, too, Diana.  Wasn't there another way to let the audience 
know that he was under the imperius?  Esp. after Mad-Eye's class 
lecture, talking about the difficulty of distinguishing the liars 
from those who had been imperioed.)

I'll second those who felt that it was a little "jumpy," especially 
at the start.  I remember thinking right as it happened that non-
fans would have a difficult time knowing what was even going ON at 
some points within the first 20 minutes or so.  Now, *I* enjoyed 
them very much -- the Quidditch stadium was AWESOME! -- but I 
figured there would be a lot of whispering going on for those Big 
Fans who came with Casual (or non-) Fans.

I also didn't quite get why they had the Beauxbatons carriage and 
the Durmstrang ship arrive *before* there was any explanation of why 
they were coming, or even any mention that guests were arriving.

I've seen a lot of criticism of the scene where DD grabs Harry and 
shakes him, seems angry with him, after his name emerged from the 
Goblet.  It *was* OOC for DD, absolutely.  But I definitely blame 
the Newell-Kloves team over Gambon for that.  It's the writer & 
director whose responsibility it is to make sure the characters they 
portray make sense, you know?

How did others react to the pensieve scene?  For some reason, I 
pictured the Wizengamot as being inside a CAVERNOUS, spacious 
area... and this scene made me feel very claustrophobic, very 
frantic about things.  That's probably what Newell *wanted* us to 
feel, but it didn't match my image at all.

Overall, I really enjoyed the film very much.  It was engrossing, 
entertaining, exciting, humorous, emotional, just all kinds of 
things.  It was an Experience, iow.  Dan & Rupert each did an 
excellent job, I thought.  Rupert was very convincing with venomous 
& hateful looks aimed at Dan when he believed he had betrayed him.  
Emma was a bit of a disappointment in some scenes (the DADA class, 
for instance, where she seemed inexplicably *too* upset and worried 
before Neville even got upset), but she did a very nice job, I 
thought, in confronting Ron after the ball and showing how "you 
ruined it all, Ron!"

I thought Ralph Fiennes was incredible.  I was, personally, grateful 
that the rebirthing wasn't drawn out at all.  OTOH, this made 
Wormtail end up looking more strong and stable than he was portrayed 
in the book.  He should've been writhing in agony, moaning and 
screaming and begging and whimpering.  Instead, he stood there like 
his arm didn't even hurt and like he was totally "together."  But 
Fiennes as Voldemort was truly creepy, I thought.  

There were two scenes with Dan, in particular, that I loved for how 
they spoke to Harry's character.  One, when he *thought* about going 
on towards the cup (and admitted it) but changed his mind and went 
back to help Cedric.  I think that spoke to Harry's being, at heart, 
Noble and True (capitalized on purpose).  And I think when he 
screwed up his face and stepped out from behind the gravestone, 
facing Voldy and saying, "Have it your way, then," it spoke to 
Harry's Bravery.  

Dan did a pretty horrible job of "crying" in PoA, imho.  This time, 
with Cedric, he truly contributed to the emotional whallop that that 
scene packed.  He was very believable, and that was a very difficult 
scene to endure (probably especially for any parents in the 
audience).

I loved the twins, I howled at some of McGonagall's scenes & lines, 
I enjoyed Mad-Eye, and I cherished every moment of the Snape 
appearances.  (They were too few, of course, but I think Rickman 
made the most of them, esp. the one when he confronted Harry in his 
potions store cupboard.)

I *almost* went back for my second show at 10:00 last night, but I 
figured I needed sleep!  I will definitely see it again this 
weekend, where I hope I feel a more strong "overall impression" than 
I do right now.  I mean, I know that I liked it very much, but I'm 
struggling to assimilate it all.

Siriusly Snapey Susan








From evilemperorcassandra at gmail.com  Sat Nov 19 17:17:18 2005
From: evilemperorcassandra at gmail.com (Cassandra Wladyslava)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:17:18 -0500
Subject: What happened to Karkaroff?
Message-ID: <bafa0f350511190917s1c073f1bl4e3f1213f07b1972@mail.gmail.com>

No one seems to have mentioned this, so I thought I would. It didn't really
bother me that they didn't explain that Karkaroff was running away so he
could hide from LV. I just thought there could've been a little more
recognition of his absence. I would've also been a great way to play up
Krum's character...had they done the whole "Durmstrang produces lots of Dark
Wizards" storyline, at least. I've always loved Krum's contempt towards his
headmaster when he finds out he used to be a DE. And the whole "Karkaroff
didn't steer the ship...he stayed in the cabin and we did all the work" (or
something like that...don't have the book on hand)
  On another note...while not canonical, I did enjoy the first Port Key
landing ^^
 ~Cassie~


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From rh64643 at appstate.edu  Sat Nov 19 19:14:36 2005
From: rh64643 at appstate.edu (truthbeauty1)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 19:14:36 -0000
Subject: The Movie
Message-ID: <dlntis+ng14@eGroups.com>

 
S
P
O
I
L
E
R














This was by far the best movie in the series. The way the world cup
was handled was brilliant. There were a lot of changes throuhout the
whole movie, but they were much more satisfying than the changes made
in P.O.A. The only dissapointing things for me was the lack of the hug
from Molly and the no show from Sirius in the end. The acting of the
trio and other school kids has improved like 200% from the last movie.
I almost cried when the portkey took Harry and Cedrics body back to
Hogarts. The acting in that scene was great from everyone. Fred and
George are amazing in this one. I laughed out loud at them. McGonagall
has some really great scenes as well. Everyone seems upset about the
DD manhadleing Harry scene. While it is not cannon, I think it was
used to show DD's growing fear about Voldemort and for Harry. I don't
get angry from DD, I get fear. The study hall scene was really funny.
The post Yule ball scene was excellent. It felt just like the book.
You wanted to laugh, but at the same time you felt soo bad for
Hermione. The most encouraging thing about this movie, is that they
are beginning to give more screen time to minor characters who are
soon to become, not so minor. For example, Ginny is definitely
featured more and Neville gets soo much more on screen time, which is
excellent. Draco had like very little screen time, but I didn't really
miss him. The bath scene with Myrtle was hilarious. Very pervy haha.
While it obvious in this movie that the main cast is growing up, they
do not look too mature for the parts. I mean, to me, they look like 14
year old kids. I loved this movie soo much. It was incrdible and eerie
and kind of scary. I was on the edge of my seat, and I have read the
book at least 7 times. 
truthbeauty1









From saundradj at hotmail.com  Sat Nov 19 20:27:28 2005
From: saundradj at hotmail.com (Saundra)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 20:27:28 -0000
Subject: GoF Experience
Message-ID: <dlo1rg+fm7r@eGroups.com>

Hey Gang,

I too saw GoF at 11:59 Thursday night. The Theater I went had 14
auditoriums playing HP and they were all sold out. I was on line at
8:30pm in falling temps simply to secure a good seat. But I wouldn't
have missed all this for the world.

I loooooved this film. Flaws and all. The acting was delicious. I
thought they did a great job of melding plotlines. I felt that they
told us which characters wouldn't be there up front so we would not
be too suprised and dissapointed when watching the film.

I tried not to let my knowledge of the book temper my enjoyment of
the movie, but I guess that's really impossible conscious or not.
When something unexplained was presented I probably just mentally
filled in the blanks.

Favorite scenes: Too many to reiterate here. But heres some (not in
any order):

1. Harry entering the Weasley tent at QWC the look on his face and
the quote "I love magic!"

2. Harry and Cho in the owlry

3. Ron's jealousy getting the better of him in the dorm

4. Hermione coming down the steps at the Yule Ball. That little wave
she gave Harry was darling

5. Harry in the Bath (the audience gave wolf whistles...sorry Connie)

6. The Dragon (I knew what was going to happen and I was still afraid
for Harry)

7. Of Course "The Incredible Bouncing Ferret)...Priceless

8. The Maze (wasn't it creepy even sans creatures)

9. Voldemort being born (WOW!!!)

10. Harry holding on to Cedric's body (I ckoed up)

11. Neville coming in from the dance (Could you help smiling with him)

12. The ending (the best ending since SS)

The people in my auditorium contained not one young child and 
everyone there was a joy to be around. One of my friends has become a 
new HP fan because of this movie. He said he loved the movie and 
can't wait to see it again and now wants to listen to the books (he's 
not a reader...oh well).

My only fear is that this movie set a bar so high that the 
expectations for next film will be impossible to meet. Because the 
5th & 6th books/movies are more drama acting vehicles than action 
flicks. Let me stop worrying about what's next and enjoy what's here.

determinedflygirl









From dk59us at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 19 23:37:14 2005
From: dk59us at yahoo.com (Eustace_Scrubb)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 23:37:14 -0000
Subject: Random ramblings on GoF
In-Reply-To: <dlndqo+sh2o@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlocva+mknl@eGroups.com>

Siriusly Snapey Susan wrote:
>
> Re: missing scenes, good and bad.
> 
> GLAD Winky & Dobby were gone (though it made some adjustments to the 
> story necessary, which probably made the story harder for non-fans 
> to follow).

Eustace_Scrubb:
Well, one resulting adjustment was considerable added presence for
Neville, which I liked a lot.  In the POA film, the other Gryffindor
boys were nearly invisible.  They weren't overshadowed by unnamed
"Gryffindor boy" this time.  I think Mathew Lewis _can_ act this part
and hope that they'll keep most of his parts in OoP.

Siriusly Snapey Susan:  > I'd 
> guessed the entire hospital wing scene would be eliminated, but it 
> still bummed me out.  Yes, the "replacement" scene of DD with Harry 
> in his dorm room was *excellent,* imo (Gambon felt very canon!DD to 
> me in that scene), but still....

Eustace_Scrubb:
I continue to like Gambon as DD.  I agree they had him a bit too
agitated when he confronted Harry after the selection snafu, but
otherwise he's done very well IMHO.

Siriusly Snapey Susan:
> MISSED the actual "tasks within the task" of the maze.  I do 
> understand why they eliminated them, and the way it was done was 
> striking, visually, but I did so enjoy all of that in the book.

Eustace_Scrubb:
The whole maze scene was one of my biggest peeves with the movie and
those I attended with as well.  Was a CG sphinx and another giant
spider just too boring for them?  The constantly changing pattern of
vegetation made me feel that an Ent or maybe Old Man Willow should
have been in the middle of the maze.  This was a change for which I
could see no good reason.  (The over-the-top handling of Harry's duel
with the Horntail didn't bother me nearly as much because that just
seemed like the typical movie-version exaggeration of the actual
scene--like Harry hanging out of the Anglia by one hand instead of
just getting bored eating candy with nothing to drink.)
 
Siriusly Snapey Susan:
> How did others react to the pensieve scene?  For some reason, I 
> pictured the Wizengamot as being inside a CAVERNOUS, spacious 
> area... and this scene made me feel very claustrophobic, very 
> frantic about things.  That's probably what Newell *wanted* us to 
> feel, but it didn't match my image at all.

Eustace_Scrubb:
Actually this matched my vision pretty well; it _was_ cavernous, but
the space all seemed to be _up_ above.  Although I did kinda think
that Crouch and the other judges looked a bit like "Q" from the Star
Trek TNG pilot and finale with those hats.

Siriusly Snapey Susan:
> Overall, I really enjoyed the film very much.  It was engrossing, 
> entertaining, exciting, humorous, emotional, just all kinds of 
> things.  It was an Experience, iow.  Dan & Rupert each did an 
> excellent job, I thought.  Rupert was very convincing with venomous 
> & hateful looks aimed at Dan when he believed he had betrayed him. 

Eustace_Scrubb:
I thought Rupert got Sullen-pouty-jealous!Ron just right.
I could go on, but I'll wait until I see it again...I hope to get to
an Imax before it disappears!

Cheers,

Eustace_Scrubb 
 






From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 20 00:35:37 2005
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 00:35:37 -0000
Subject: GOF Movie : My Thoughts
In-Reply-To: <bafa0f350511181945uf6977i3a409bdde4a69c4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dlogcp+9jib@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Cassandra Wladyslava
<evilemperorcassandra at g...> wrote:
>
> Oh! One more thing!
> The Death Eater costumes! Those were great. Did anyone else 
> think KKK? I've never had a clear picture of what they would 
> look like....now I'd be absolutely terrified if I saw them 
> walking down the street.
> 

bboyminn:

While I never worried about the Death Eater costumes, I assumed they
would get that right; if nothing else then just plain hooded robes,
but I did worry about the masks. I've never been able to accurately
picture the mask clearly in my mind, which is rare because I think I
have a very clear picture of everything else. I thought Lone Ranger
Masks, Phantom of the Opera masks, Batman masks, but nothing quite
fit. But I was awestruck when I saw the DE masks; brilliantly done,
and very scary. 

My quess is that they went away from specter-of-death hooded robes,
which in more what I though of, to the more KKK-like because the
specter-of-death robe hides so much of the face you wouldn't have been
able to see the masks. Really, those masks were really freaky, and it
look as if each one was different.

Overal an very good movie with brilliant performances by the primary
characters. Dan, Emma, and Rupurt really are tremendously more
engaging and believable. Further I was especially impressed with
Vikror/Stan, I though he had trememdous stage presents, and captured
Viktor very well. Lastly, I was very pleased (and scared) with Ralph
Finnes portrayal of Voldemort. We very much sense his underlying
frustration, and more so, his underlying evil.

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bboyminn








From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 20 01:12:26 2005
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 01:12:26 -0000
Subject: Initial review by Diana L. - Krum Bewitched.
In-Reply-To: <dlmsb6+os10@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dloihq+ufus@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Diana" <dianasdolls at y...> wrote:
>
> S
> P
> O
> I
> L
> E
> R
> 
> S
> P
> A
> C
> E
> 
> ...edited... 
> 
> Krum's eyes were clouded over due to the Imperious curse?  HUH?  
> Then why was this curse such a problem for the Ministry if the 
> victim's eyes cloud over while in effect?  Was this a red herring 
> for the five audience members who didn't know that Voldemort, 
> through Moody!Barty Jr. was controlling Krum?  ... why bother to 
> introduce the Imperious curse earlier in the movie?  ...edited...
> 
> Diana L.
>


bboyminn:

Just a quick explanation of this one point. True the Imperios Curse is
introduced earlier in the movie, but no where in the maze or after is
it said or implied that Krum was Imperioed. Harry merely says that
Krum was 'bewitched', and we are presumably to accept that he wasn't
responsible for his actions. But it seems to be left at that. 

WE ALL logically assume he was Imperioed because we read the books,
but the movie doesn't establish that fact. 

Just one small thought.

Steve/bboyminn






From scribbuluskat at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 01:21:06 2005
From: scribbuluskat at gmail.com (Kathrine)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 01:21:06 -0000
Subject: Spoiler Warning!!
Message-ID: <dloj22+jb5c@eGroups.com>

Okay, I've now read through all the posts that have been made, 
simply to make sure that this haven't been raised before.

I could easily rant on and on and on about how much I enjoyed this 
movie, because I did. It was pure eyecandy, with great pictures, 
adorable twins, wonderfully jealous Ron, nicely developed Neville 
and all that, but
 I'm not going to.

However!

I would like to know, why it is, that nobody seems overly concerned 
with the fact that there wasn't even the slightest hint at a 
possible resistance to the DE (ie the Order)? I mean, the way the 
movie ended gave me the idea that, oh well, there's a raving lunatic 
who's about to make life miserable for pretty much everybody, yet 
it's more important that Ron and Harry promises Hermione to write 
over the summer, and everything is light and breezy because we all 
know how neither of them are going to *insert light, yet hearty 
laughter*

I've almost come to terms with the fact that they've cut out Molly, 
Bill and Charlie (the other champions got to have their family at 
the last task, but Harry was left alone with Moody
 who didn't tell 
him he would make an excellent Auror
 another lack I find 
disturbing), but to cut out the Order? Does that mean that it won't 
appear in the next movie, in which case I guess it'll just be 
called "Harry Potter &"?

Nah, that doesn't really have a ring to it, does it?

Thought not.

Kathrine









From bob.oliver at cox.net  Sun Nov 20 03:04:03 2005
From: bob.oliver at cox.net (lupinlore)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 03:04:03 -0000
Subject: Snape and DD in GoF
Message-ID: <dlop33+n2hn@eGroups.com>

Did anyone else notice that Snape's part was relatively small?  I
particularly noticed the lack of the final scene in the hospital wing,
i.e. the "show our Dark Mark to Fudge and return to spy on Voldemort"
scene.

Now, I wonder why that scene was left out?  My own thought is that the
film makers are unsure what JKR intends to do with Snape, and
therefore have decided to play it safe by keeping his part minimal. 
That way they don't risk inadvertantly taking him in the "wrong"
direction.

Of course we DID have that interesting insert of DD, Snape, and McG
talking about Harry's name coming out of the GoF.  I did wonder about
what Kloves/Newell were trying to do there.  Were they trying to make
DD's actions/attitudes clearer?  I have to say the people I saw the
movie with didn't care for the scene much, as they thought it made DD
look uncaring and manipulative, as well as thinking it was unnecessary
given the "magically binding contract".  On the other hand was the
whole purpose of the scene to underscore that Snape was the one who
brought up the idea of allowing Harry to continue in the tournament?

<Shrug.>  I don't really know.  My own sense was that it was simply a
Kloves insert to try and explain some things that inadvertantly made
DD look bad.  A couple of more lines of explanation, e.g. that going
ahead was the best way to protect Harry because otherwise the enemy
would just try again from a direction no one could predict, would
probably have cleared up the problem.


Lupinlore









From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 20 03:35:06 2005
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 03:35:06 -0000
Subject: Random ramblings on GoF
In-Reply-To: <dlndqo+sh2o@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dloqta+sd2r@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "cubfanbudwoman" 
<susiequsie23 at s...> wrote:
> I've seen a lot of criticism of the scene where DD grabs Harry and 
> shakes him, seems angry with him, after his name emerged from the 
> Goblet.  It *was* OOC for DD, absolutely.  But I definitely blame 
> the Newell-Kloves team over Gambon for that.  It's the writer & 
> director whose responsibility it is to make sure the characters 
they 
> portray make sense, you know?


Alla:

You know, actually after watching this scene I did not find it being 
THAT OOC for Dumbledore. I mean sure Dumbledore does not grab 
people, BUT he was obviosly frustrated and probably scared for Harry 
and maybe thought that Harry did not realise how dangerous the 
Tournament could be and he let himself be human. I think I am more 
or less OK with this scene.

Gambon's Dumbledore growed on me very significantly today. I still 
that the ideal one would be Harris' serenity and Gambon's quirkiness 
together, but we cannot have that unfortunately. :-)

I LOVED his last scene with Harry where he apologises for putting 
Harry in danger. Loved it.


SSSusan:
> Dan & Rupert each did an 
> excellent job, I thought.  
<SNIP>

> Dan did a pretty horrible job of "crying" in PoA, imho.  This 
time, 
> with Cedric, he truly contributed to the emotional whallop that 
that 
> scene packed.  He was very believable, and that was a very 
difficult 
> scene to endure (probably especially for any parents in the 
> audience).

Alla:

OK, yes to everything you said about Rupert and Dan. I thought they 
were very good and did not think that Dan is wooden at all. I think 
he improved SO much, but I just have to say big YES to this scene.

Dan's distress was SO believable, so well done. Bravo!


--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Kathrine" <scribbuluskat at g...> 
wrote:
<SNIP>
>> I would like to know, why it is, that nobody seems overly 
concerned 
> with the fact that there wasn't even the slightest hint at a 
> possible resistance to the DE (ie the Order)? I mean, the way the 
> movie ended gave me the idea that, oh well, there's a raving 
lunatic 
> who's about to make life miserable for pretty much everybody, yet 
> it's more important that Ron and Harry promises Hermione to write 
> over the summer, and everything is light and breezy because we all 
> know how neither of them are going to *insert light, yet hearty 
> laughter*


Alla:

Yes, I also enjoyed many, many things about this movie, in fact it 
is absolutely my favorite one now, BUT I completely agree with you.

I am not even sure I need the introduction of the Order, I am sure 
there is a way to introduce in OOP, but  the lighthearted good bye 
after heartrenchinh scene of bringing Cedric back seemed wierd to me.

I would have loved to see something else acknowledging that 
everything is changes, not just Hermione saying it in vacuum, IMO.

Yes, I did not "feel" the ending at all.

Alla






From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 20 04:29:25 2005
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora67)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 04:29:25 -0000
Subject: Random ramblings on GoF
In-Reply-To: <dloqta+sd2r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlou35+q7dh@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" > 
> 
> 
> Alla:

> Yes, I did not "feel" the ending at all.


*de-lurking*

I have to agree.  I disliked the ending.  I think they were trying to 
end it on a "high" note, but how can you?  The Dark Lord is back.  I 
wanted to hear Hagrid say, "What's comin will come and we'll face it 
when it does"  thing.  I really wanted it to stay true to the feeling 
that everything is not going to go well, even if they did leave out 
the hospital scene.  Somewhere, that feeling of impending doom could 
have been snuck in.  Oh well, I can't have it all....

Alora 






From dianasdolls at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 20 09:25:30 2005
From: dianasdolls at yahoo.com (Diana)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 09:25:30 -0000
Subject: Initial review by Diana L. - Krum Bewitched.
In-Reply-To: <dloihq+ufus@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlpfea+ahan@eGroups.com>

Diana wrote: <snipped by bboyminn>
> > Krum's eyes were clouded over due to the Imperious curse?  HUH?  
> > Then why was this curse such a problem for the Ministry if the 
> > victim's eyes cloud over while in effect?  Was this a red 
herring for the five audience members who didn't know that 
Voldemort, through Moody!Barty Jr. was controlling Krum?  ... why 
bother to introduce the Imperious curse earlier in the movie?  

 Diana L.

 
Steve/bboyminn wrote:
 
> Just a quick explanation of this one point. True the Imperios 
Curse is introduced earlier in the movie, but no where in the maze 
or after is it said or implied that Krum was Imperioed. Harry merely 
says that Krum was 'bewitched', and we are presumably to accept that 
he wasn't responsible for his actions. But it seems to be left at 
that. 

> WE ALL logically assume he was Imperioed because we read the books,
> but the movie doesn't establish that fact. 
> 
> Just one small thought.

Diana replies:

I understand what you're saying and it's reasonable. Yet, I have 
problems with the movie makers doing that.  While it is not 
specifically mentioned in the movie what spell was used on Krum, the 
earlier explanation, by Moody, of the Imperious curse and the 
difficulty it has caused (in telling liars from victims) was the 
perfect set up for what happened to Krum.  Readers of the book did 
not know Krum had been imperio'd by Moody!Barty Jr. until well after 
the fact.  We were allowed to wonder if Krum wasn't as good a person 
as we'd been led to believe, even if it was idle wondering because 
we didn't truly believe that Hermione could be that bad of a judge 
of people.  Why deny us that same suspense in the movie?  Especially 
when the filmmakers purposely left in a red herring scene showing 
Karkaroff closing the doors with him alone in the room with the 
Goblet of Fire before the names were chosen?

Why bother to throw out bizarre red herrings that cataract!Krum was 
the result of some spell cast by the maze (DD's comments about the 
maze changing people) when the Imperious curse had already been 
perfectly, and carefully, set up to be the reason for his actions?  
Especially when Moody!Barty Jr. later admits to Harry that he had 
Krum get rid of Fleur and Cedric.  I've only seen the movie once so 
far, so I'm not even sure of the wording, but I'm positive Moody!
Barty Jr. made some comment to Harry about Krum's actions in the 
maze being his doing.  Please correct me if I'm wrong on this point.

Why change the spell that made Krum do what he did?  It doesn't make 
sense because no other spell that could make others do a wizard's 
bidding (even when removed a considerable distance from the 
spellcaster) had been mentioned or implied throughout the movie or 
in the books.  And having DD's comments thrust in there just set up 
the explanation that the maze did it to Krum for the sake of non-
book readers is just silly, IMO, since Krum saw Harry and purposely 
ignored him.

Unfortunatley, I have a feeling that the filmmakers, thinking that 
children in the audience wouldn't understand that Krum isn't really 
a bad guy, added those cataract lens to show them that Krum was 
under a spell when he attacked the others, but, by default, left the 
spell used on Krum remain the Imperious curse as cast by Barty Jr. 
(as in the book).  I wonder if someone somewhere realized that the 
clouded lens didn't jibe with Moody's comments regarding the 
Imperious curse and had shoepicked in DD's ridiculous warning to the 
champions about the maze changing them to get us to discuss exactly 
what we're discussing - what spell or enchantment was actually used 
on Krum in the maze?  LOL    

I think their logic in this case was the same logic that ended up 
with the polyjuice potion in CoS just changing Harry's and Ron's 
appearances into Goyle and Crabbe, yet not their voices.  They must 
have though children wouldn't understand that Goyle and Crabbe were 
actually Harry and Ron unless something remained the same so 
children could tell who they really were.  

Diana L.








From dianasdolls at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 20 09:37:01 2005
From: dianasdolls at yahoo.com (Diana)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 09:37:01 -0000
Subject: Random ramblings on GoF
In-Reply-To: <dlou35+q7dh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlpg3t+r9q5@eGroups.com>

Alla expressed:
> 
> > Yes, I did not "feel" the ending at all.
> 

Alora added:

> I have to agree.  I disliked the ending.  I think they were trying 
to end it on a "high" note, but how can you?  The Dark Lord is 
back.  I wanted to hear Hagrid say, "What's comin will come and 
we'll face it when it does"  thing.  I really wanted it to stay true 
to the feeling that everything is not going to go well, even if they 
did leave out the hospital scene.  Somewhere, that feeling of 
impending doom could have been snuck in.  Oh well, I can't have it 
all....


Diana replies:
 
I didn't get the line reading that Hermione gave at the end 
either.  "Everything is going to change now, isn't it?" has been 
playing in the trailers consistently, yet it's set up to imply she's 
either talking about their inerpersonal relationships or perhaps 
Harry's being entered in the tournament or maybe even after the 
reconcilliation of Harry and Ron.  I was quite surprised to see it 
pop up at the end in reference to the impending gloom that is 
inevitable due to the return of Lord Voldemort!  

Why say the line with a suppressed smile?  It makes no sense.  I 
suppose it could be an example of gallows humor, but that's 
defnitely Ron's forte, not Hermione's.  I'll be interested to see 
that scene again when I see the movie a second time.  Hagrid's 
dialog in the book about facing what's coming would have been a 
great ending scene, I agree.  

Still this ending was inifinitely better than the ending of CoS with 
the inexplicable Hagrid love-fest during the Hogwart's feast.  That 
ending still really, really bothers me.   

Diana L.








From ctx27547 at centurytel.net  Sun Nov 20 13:16:28 2005
From: ctx27547 at centurytel.net (Brenda)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 07:16:28 -0600
Subject: Random ramblings on GoF
References: <dlou35+q7dh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c5edd4$9e019280$0301a8c0@brendao3i7xg3n>

Alora:
> I have to agree.  I disliked the ending.  I think they were trying to
> end it on a "high" note, but how can you?  The Dark Lord is back.  I
> wanted to hear Hagrid say, "What's comin will come and we'll face it
> when it does"  thing.  I really wanted it to stay true to the feeling
> that everything is not going to go well, even if they did leave out
> the hospital scene.  Somewhere, that feeling of impending doom could
> have been snuck in.  Oh well, I can't have it all....


I agree.  I think Dan did a good job of portraying the sense of a boy who 
finds himself on the outside knowing so much more than his peers during the 
scene when he is standing on the other side of the wall watching everyone 
else say good-bye.  It just broke my heart and I think it added a lot. 


Brenda





From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 20 14:56:17 2005
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora67)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 14:56:17 -0000
Subject: Random ramblings on GoF
In-Reply-To: <dlpg3t+r9q5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlq2qh+9a5l@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Diana" <dianasdolls at y...> wrote:
> Still this ending was inifinitely better than the ending of CoS with 
> the inexplicable Hagrid love-fest during the Hogwart's feast.  That 
> ending still really, really bothers me.   
> 
> Diana L.


Oh my gosh, I HATED that ending in CoS!  What was the point of that?  
I was actually watching that last night with my kids on regular 
television and rolling my eyes.  I thought after that he might be the 
one to die in OoP.  I guess I am one of those people that want the 
filmmakers to stay as close to the book as possible.  I know it's not 
possible in every scene, but why do they add random things?  The "you 
tell those spiders, Ron"  scene was good in PoA, added a little humor 
and I don't mind that.  But, why the last scene in GoF?  Why change 
something that sets the tone or is at least somewhat important?  I 
suppose the writers aren't interested in my opinion :D, so, oh well!  
Just me being nitpicky.  Overall, I enjoyed the film very much and 
will definitely go back many more times.  Anytime my favorite wizard 
is on the big screen, I'll see it over and over!  

Alora :)









From artsylynda at aol.com  Sun Nov 20 15:04:34 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 10:04:34 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Karkaroff
Message-ID: <245.1cbe8d1.30b1ea82@aol.com>

Spoiler
 
Space
 
Is
 
Required
 
for
 
How
 
Long
 
after 
 
Gof

opens???
 
I've seen the film twice now and loved it both times!!!  I do  have a 
question (well, several, actually).  
 
1.  Why did Karkaroff sneak into the room where the Goblet of  Fire was?  No 
reason was ever given that I could see, and it's not  canonical.  He couldn't 
mess with the age line, nor would he need to, since  Krum was of age.  I did 
miss the whole "Viktor has a cold.  Do you  want some wine?" and the other boy 
saying HE'd like some wine bit, as well as  many others, particularly the bit 
about him not being the one who drives the  ship.  And when did he run off?  
In two viewings, I missed that.   I'll look for it the next time I see it.
 
2.  What possible logic was there for having the schools  arrive before the 
announcement (except compression of time, I suppose, for the  film's length's 
sake, but it wasn't LOGICAL since all the Hogwarts students SAW  them arrive!)
 
3.  Why do you suppose Newell was so "into" having boys in the  trees?  16-18 
year olds don't spend time climbing trees like little boys  do.  Draco and 
Cedric being up in those lovely big trees -- that just  seemed odd, although 
attractive visually, I suppose.
 
4.  I loved the Portkey scene (especially the "behind the  scenes" shot from 
the HBO special showing Dan being hoisted horizontally on his  wires with a 
huge grin on his face -- LOL!  I'd love a picture of that --  if anyone has a 
screen cap of that shot, let me know!)  But we've never  heard that they had to 
"let go" of the Portkey.  The adults and Cedric  "bicycling" (or walking?) out 
of the sky was weird.  And do you have to be  over 17 to know how to do that? 
 All the Weasley kids, Harry and Hermione  crashed to earth.  You'd think 
Arthur would have warned them!  Ah  well, I suppose there's no answer to that one 
at all.
 
Anyway, I loved it the second time as much as the first.  I  particularly 
loved the Second Task (my fav. part of the book) and the way they  changed it, 
with Harry heroically somehow "shoving" Ron and Gabrielle toward the  surface to 
fight off the Grindylows, and then nearly drowning before he thought  to 
shoot himself out of the water (what was that spell?  Anyone catch the  
incantation?)  And his struggle underwater while growing gills -- oh,  my!!  If Dan 
doesn't get nominated for some SERIOUS awards this year,   I'll be EXTREMELY 
annoyed!   His bringing Cedric back broke my  heart -- he did that scene so 
convincingly!  And his "hesitation" about  whether to help Cedric in the maze or not 
-- you could really see how torn he  was, and the moment the decision was made 
to do the right thing.  And when  he steeled himself to come out from behind 
the gravestone -- wow!
 
Lynda AKA "Abraxan"

Read my Harry Potter fics here:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From artsylynda at aol.com  Sun Nov 20 15:21:33 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 10:21:33 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Dumbledore
Message-ID: <22e.1ecd4a7.30b1ee7d@aol.com>

Spoiler
 
Space
 
for
 
the
 
two
 
HP
 
fans
 
in 
 
the 
 
world
 
who 
 
haven't
 
seen 
 
the 
 
film yet!  :-D
 
 
I did not like Michael Gambon in PoA, but in this film, he filled  DD's shoes 
admirably, I thought.  And the scene in the trophy room, where  he seemed to 
"attack" Harry, goes along with what we've been told in interviews  -- DD in 
the films is being shown as an old man who is not in control of his  powers the 
way he used to be (which I think is not in agreement with canon, but  maybe I 
just read DD as still being strong until HBP because that's how I want  to 
read him???).  
 
One scene that didn't make it into the final cut of the movie that  I think 
should have been kept was the one (shown on the "making of" specials,  etc.) 
where DD tells Harry he can no longer protect him, and Harry said, "If you  
can't, then who can?" (or words to that effect).  That bit explains DD's  actions 
in the trophy room and his uneasiness at other times -- he was terrified  
because Harry was being made a pawn in some kind of game.  This fact was  shown in 
the "decision making" scene where Snape said they should let it all  play 
out, and Dumbledore agreed with him.  So how much did Snape know about  what was 
happening?  Apparently a lot!  
 
There are a lot of things in this film that, unlike normal films,  require 
you to put two-and-two together yourself, rather than just sitting there  and 
watching it.  Hint and clues are dropped here and there and not  explained.  
Heaven help those who only know the series through the movies  -- I can't imagine 
how lost they might be!  But maybe it's easier for them  -- we have to try to 
separate our book knowledge from the film in order to  understand what's 
being presented.  Maybe it's easier the other way, I  don't know.
 
I loved how maternal McGonagall was toward Harry, patting his  shoulder 
supportively when he was first named, then trying to get him out of the  Tournament 
altogether.  Maggie Smith had a lot of good stuff in this film,  and did it 
all admirably.  And they gave her better makeup this time (and  she smiled 
more), so she actually looked pretty, unlike in past HP  films.
 
Another question I had that I forgot to include on my previous  list:
 
"Priori Incantatum" -- that doesn't happen from wands "linking" --  it's an 
actual spell that's said.   The wands linked because of their  common core, 
which brings about the "brother wand effect."  So the films  have actually set it 
up so Dan Radcliffe's prediction is wrong (he thinks Harry  has to die to 
kill Voldemort, and that this will happen when his and Voldemort's  wands link 
again).  That's fine with me!  If JKR kills off Harry,  there will be a shout of 
rage and anguish heard round the world, IMO!   ;-)  Anyway -- my question is, 
how would DD come up with the Priori  Incantatum idea, and know the ghosts 
came out of Voldie's wand, from Harry  saying they linked?  I guess there's no 
real answer to that,  though.
 
Lynda AKA "Abraxan"

Read my Harry Potter fics here:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From artsylynda at aol.com  Sun Nov 20 15:31:56 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 10:31:56 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Digest Number 1326
Message-ID: <227.1ec6530.30b1f0ec@aol.com>

 
 
In a message dated 11/20/2005 6:16:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com writes:

Alla:

Yes, I also enjoyed many, many things about this movie, in  fact it 
is absolutely my favorite one now, BUT I completely agree with  you.

I am not even sure I need the introduction of the Order, I am sure  
there is a way to introduce in OOP, but  the lighthearted good bye  
after heartrenchinh scene of bringing Cedric back seemed wierd to  me.

I would have loved to see something else acknowledging that  
everything is changes, not just Hermione saying it in vacuum,  IMO.

Yes, I did not "feel" the ending at  all.


I read a post somewhere (or a review?  I can't remember) that  said the film 
ended with an unsettled, open-ended feeling, and that's true --  and very, 
very creepy.  And that kind of ending suits the truly creepy  feeling evoked when 
Harry tells Hermione a very simple and heartfelt "Yes" when  she says 
"Everything's going to change now, isn't it?"  His eyes said it  all, despite the 
slight, comforting big-brother-ish smile on his face.  His  eyes were haunted, 
dead, pain-filled, seeing things other people haven't and  shouldn't have to 
see.  It was a wonderfully done bit.  And then they  tried to get back to 
normality, which is how people really act during trying  times.  At funerals, people 
laugh despite their grief as they share stories  about the deceased or catch 
up on news with people they haven't seen since the  last funeral.  It seems 
disrespectful, but in all reality, it's life  "moving on" because in the face of 
tragedy, the survivors must find a way to  move on or collapse in despair, 
y'know?  Been there, done that, and I think  it was a truly brilliant way to end 
it.  

I did miss the cute little thing I saw Mike Newell showing the kids for  the 
very end of that scene, which was cut out for some reason -- Hermione took  
each boy's hand as they stood by that wall watching the other schools  leave.  I 
think that could have been a very sweet scene, but for whatever  reason, it 
was cut out.  Oh well.
 

Lynda AKA "Abraxan"

Read my Harry Potter fics here:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From artsylynda at aol.com  Sun Nov 20 15:37:11 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 10:37:11 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] the ending
Message-ID: <23b.1ea38e1.30b1f227@aol.com>

 
 
In a message dated 11/20/2005 6:16:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com writes:

Diana  replies:

I didn't get the line reading that Hermione gave at the end  
either.  "Everything is going to change now, isn't it?" has been  
playing in the trailers consistently, yet it's set up to imply she's  
either talking about their inerpersonal relationships or perhaps  
Harry's being entered in the tournament or maybe even after the  
reconcilliation of Harry and Ron.  I was quite surprised to see it  
pop up at the end in reference to the impending gloom that is  
inevitable due to the return of Lord Voldemort!  

Why say the  line with a suppressed smile?  It makes no sense.  I 
suppose it  could be an example of gallows humor, but that's 
defnitely Ron's forte,  not Hermione's.  I'll be interested to see 
that scene again when I  see the movie a second time.  Hagrid's 
dialog in the book about  facing what's coming would have been a 
great ending scene, I agree.   


Have you ever noticed that it's hard to tell from a distance  sometimes if 
someone is laughing or crying hard?  The face twists the same  way for both.  I 
saw her grimace, not do a suppressed smile.  She  looked uneasy to me.  And 
Dan did an absolutely masterful job of conveying  a world of pain in Harry's sad 
eyes while he gave her that slight, supportive  smile when he said "Yes" to 
her question.  I thought it a very powerful  scene, but that's just me.
 

Lynda AKA "Abraxan"

Read my Harry Potter fics here:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From sherriola at earthlink.net  Sun Nov 20 15:46:52 2005
From: sherriola at earthlink.net (Sherry Gomes)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 07:46:52 -0800
Subject: ending question
In-Reply-To: <227.1ec6530.30b1f0ec@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c5ede9$a17bdfa0$0400a8c0@pensive>


 read a post somewhere (or a review?  I can't remember) that  said the film 
ended with an unsettled, open-ended feeling, and that's true --  and very, 
very creepy.  And that kind of ending suits the truly creepy  feeling evoked
when 
Harry tells Hermione a very simple and heartfelt "Yes" when  she says 
"Everything's going to change now, isn't it?"  His eyes said it  all,
despite the 
slight, comforting big-brother-ish smile on his face.  His  eyes were
haunted, 
dead, pain-filled, seeing things other people haven't and  shouldn't have to

see.  It was a wonderfully done bit.  And then they  tried to get back to 
normality, which is how people really act during trying  times.  At
funerals, people 
laugh despite their grief as they share stories  about the deceased or catch

up on news with people they haven't seen since the  last funeral.  It seems 
disrespectful, but in all reality, it's life  "moving on" because in the
face of 
tragedy, the survivors must find a way to  move on or collapse in despair, 
y'know?  Been there, done that, and I think  it was a truly brilliant way to
end 
it.  

Lynda AKA "Abraxan"



Sherry asks:

Ok, I'm one of the two remaining HP fans who haven't seen the movie yet!
Still trying to find someone to go with, in case there are visual things I
need to have explained.  Aren't there any adult HP fans in the Seattle area?
Sniffle.

Anyway, how does this somewhat lighter seeming ending--just going on the
descriptions here so far--set up the scene for Harry's mindset and mood at
the beginning of OOTP?  He's in pretty bad shape at the beginning of that
one.  I'm just curious if people think this ending really gives us that kind
of preparation.

Oh, a comment about Dan's acting.  Unlike many apparently, I always thought
Dan was a pretty good Harry.  Well, except for that dreadful crying scene in
POA.  But since I can't see him, i thought his verbal delivery was really
good, kind of hesitant and unsure of himself, as Harry was in the beginning
of the series.  I think Dan's acting has improved and strengthened, as Harry
as gained confidence and become a stronger person through the series.  Of
course, Harry's a strong person, but his confidence has grown throughout the
first four books, as he matured and developed.  i just always thought Dan's
acting really gave me that impression of the kid stepping into this new
world where everyone knows his name and admires him, from the world of the
Dursleys where he has been abused and unloved.  I thought Dan gave me that
confusion and growing confidence quite well.

Sherry
Probably the last remaining HP fan who hasn't been to the movie!




From illyana at mindspring.com  Sun Nov 20 15:49:01 2005
From: illyana at mindspring.com (illyana delorean)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 10:49:01 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Dumbledore
In-Reply-To: <22e.1ecd4a7.30b1ee7d@aol.com>
References: <22e.1ecd4a7.30b1ee7d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3F6DD9A2-EC36-403F-8B3E-74C87399CF0A@mindspring.com>


On Nov 20, 2005, at 10:21 AM, artsylynda at aol.com wrote:

> Spoiler
>
> Space
>
> for
>
> the
>
> two
>
> HP
>
> fans
>
> in
>
> the
>
> world
>
> who
>
> haven't
>
> seen
>
> the
>
> film yet!  :-D
>
>
> There are a lot of things in this film that, unlike normal films,   
> require
> you to put two-and-two together yourself, rather than just sitting  
> there  and
> watching it.  Hint and clues are dropped here and there and not   
> explained.
> Heaven help those who only know the series through the movies  -- I  
> can't imagine
> how lost they might be!  But maybe it's easier for them  -- we have  
> to try to
> separate our book knowledge from the film in order to  understand  
> what's
> being presented.  Maybe it's easier the other way, I  don't know.

before seeing the movie last night, i told my boyfriend that i had  
heard how this movie was a bit confusing for non-readers of the  
books. i said that i wondered if we, the readers, felt this way  
because we knew all of the extra information that was provided in the  
book. after we saw the movie, the only thing he was confused about  
was why barty crouch sr. had been killed - that was never explained  
in the movie. i thought they did a good job of putting two-and-two  
together for non-readers (making it obvious that crouch jr. was  
crouch sr.'s son during the scene in the pensieve, flashing back to  
show that crouch jr. was also the man with voldie and wormtail in the  
old house).

illyana



From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 20 16:32:23 2005
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 16:32:23 -0000
Subject: Initial review by Diana L. - Krum Bewitched.
In-Reply-To: <dlpfea+ahan@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlq8en+od3a@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Diana" <dianasdolls at y...> wrote:
>
> Diana wrote: <snipped by bboyminn>
> > > Krum's eyes were clouded over due to the Imperious curse?  HUH?  
> > > Then why was this curse such a problem for the Ministry if the 
> > > victim's eyes cloud over while in effect?  ...
> 
>  Diana L.
> 
>  
> Steve/bboyminn wrote:
>  
> > Just a quick explanation of this one point. True the Imperios 
> Curse is introduced earlier in the movie, but no where in the maze 
> or after is it said or implied that Krum was Imperioed. ...

> 
> Diana replies:
> 
> I understand what you're saying and it's reasonable. Yet, I have 
> problems with the movie makers doing that.  While it is not 
> specifically mentioned in the movie what spell was used on Krum, the 
> earlier explanation, by Moody, of the Imperious curse and the 
> difficulty it has caused (in telling liars from victims) was the 
> perfect set up for what happened to Krum.  ...
> 
> Diana L.
>

bboyminn:

Well, I can sum up my answer in three easy words... hurry, hurry,
hurry. One of my biggest complaints about the movies is that they are
so dead set on the movies being no longer than 2.5 hours. So, many
scenes would have played so much better if they had taken a very short
bit of time to allow some dramatic tension to develop.

Cataract!Krum was simply a way for them to make the point and get past
is as quickly as possible. By simply saying Krum was 'bewitched' they
didn't have to stop and make the connection to the Imperius Curse.
They could simply say 'bewitched', we'd know he wasn't responsible,
and move on to the next scene. So, really it's just a matter of time
and story compression.

I found this in many scenes where the dramatic tension and level of
emotion could have been so much higher if they has taken a few seconds
to let the story and the mood develop. To some extent, the emotional
flaws in the various performances, I blame on pace rather than any
lack of talent on the part of the actors.

Just a thought. 

Steve/bboyminn






From lodonne4 at twcny.rr.com  Sun Nov 20 18:16:05 2005
From: lodonne4 at twcny.rr.com (Lorie J. O'Donnell)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 13:16:05 -0500
Subject: Spoiler Warning!!
In-Reply-To: <dloj22+jb5c@eGroups.com>
References: <dloj22+jb5c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <96a4e2924f22e2d96683353e0b039f82@twcny.rr.com>



On Nov 19, 2005, at 8:21 PM, Kathrine wrote:

> I would like to know, why it is, that nobody seems overly
> concerned with the fact that there wasn't even the slightest
> hint at a possible resistance to the DE (ie the Order)? <snip>
>
> <snip> but to cut out the Order? Does that mean that it won't
> appear in the next movie, in which case I guess it'll just be
> called "Harry Potter &"?


Hi.  First of all, I saw it, I loved it!

To your question, JKR doesn't bring the order into the series 
until the 5th installment.   I never assumed that there would 
be advance mention of them in GOF.  The movie mentions extra 
security, as does the book, at Hogwarts.  When reading it for 
the first time, I assumed it was simply because of the Tourney. 
 After reading the rest of them, I guess they are the Order.

Lorie






From lodonne4 at twcny.rr.com  Sun Nov 20 18:42:16 2005
From: lodonne4 at twcny.rr.com (Lorie J. O'Donnell)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 13:42:16 -0500
Subject: DVD? (was Re:  Dumbledore)
In-Reply-To: <22e.1ecd4a7.30b1ee7d@aol.com>
References: <22e.1ecd4a7.30b1ee7d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <18692949f7f7f2cd0e891200a4d6c7b1@twcny.rr.com>



On Nov 20, 2005, at 10:21 AM, artsylynda at aol.com wrote:

> One scene that didn't make it into the final cut of the movie 
> that I think should have been kept was the one (shown on the 
> "making of" specials, etc.) where DD tells Harry he can no 
> longer protect him, and Harry said, "If you can't, then who
> can?" (or words to that effect).


This brings to mind a question I have had.  Has anyone hard when 
the DVD is scheduled to release?  I am hoping they are going to 
do an "extended" DVD (as was done with the LOTR ones) and put a 
lot of the missing scenes back in.

Lorie





From chariot313 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 20 19:39:59 2005
From: chariot313 at yahoo.com (Melissa)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 19:39:59 -0000
Subject: hp rpg anyone?
Message-ID: <dlqjef+sdqb@eGroups.com>

hey everyone... my name is melissa and im 17 and im one of the biggest 
harry potter fans out there. i just saw harry potter and the goblet of 
fire the other day and i thought it was amazing

ive been role playing for 6 years now
and i was jsut wondering if anyone is interested in STARTING A HARRY 
POTTER AND THE GOBLET OF FIRE RPG. it would be the movie plus anything 
lef tout from the book plus whatever we want to put it in. any plots 
can change and basically we can just turn it into our ideas. so if 
anyone is interested in starting up a group with me EMAIL me or IM ME 
ON AIM. my screen name for aim is FALSEMORTALITY13

IF YOU ARE INTERESTED OR KNOW ANYONE WHO IS OR ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO 
HELP OUT OR JOIN... please inform me. thanks! hope to hear from you all 
soon.

-melissa









From alexpie at aol.com  Sun Nov 20 21:59:17 2005
From: alexpie at aol.com (alexpie at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 16:59:17 EST
Subject: Gambondore
Message-ID: <14.51ee3bd0.30b24bb5@aol.com>

Cassandra W. wrote:
>I'm sorry, but I do not like Gambon's Dumbledore. Especially in the  scene
>where he gives Harry the 3rd degree about his name being in the  goblet. I
>really don't think Gambon was the best choice for Dumbledore.  To me,
>Dumbledore is like Hannibal Lector. Most of the time he's quiet  and reserved
>and then BAM! He bites your face!
 
That's Kloves's writing and Newell's direction, not Gambon.  Of  course, 
actors have some input, but think about the vaguely hippyish Dumbledore  of PoA 
that was stated to be Cuaron's vision.  This version is Newell's,  and I don't 
like it either.  I keep remembering DD telling Umbridge not to  "manhandle his 
students."  Ahem.
Ba



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From AntaresCheryl at aol.com  Mon Nov 21 00:06:34 2005
From: AntaresCheryl at aol.com (antarestch)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 00:06:34 -0000
Subject: ??Barty Jr??Initial review by Diana L. - Krum Bewitched.
In-Reply-To: <dlpfea+ahan@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlr32a+r6cu@eGroups.com>

>>>>I've only seen the movie once so
far, so I'm not even sure of the wording, but I'm positive Moody!
Barty Jr. made some comment to Harry about Krum's actions in the
maze being his doing. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this point.<<<<

I've seen the movie twice and I do not recall Barty Jr. telling anyone 
that Harry's success was due to his interference.
Cheryl









From isilvalacirca at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 21 00:47:26 2005
From: isilvalacirca at yahoo.com (Sara)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 16:47:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Pacing of GoF [was: GOF Movie : My Thoughts]
In-Reply-To: <1132404257.285.83982.m16@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051121004726.56872.qmail@web53509.mail.yahoo.com>

Cassandra Wladyslava <evilemperorcassandra at gmail.com>
wrote:

"... But there were times when I think they should've
slowed down. Like in the Pensieve scene. I would've
liked to see Harry reaction to the torture of
Neville's parents (or his putting two and two
together) and his reaction to Snape being a former DE.
Just a simple reaction shot would've sufficed."

I couldn't agree more, Cassie. While I enjoyed the
film for the most part - the relationship between the
kids was especially well done, as were the comic
elements - there were a few plot points that needed to
be emphasized for the sake of the development of the
whole story, yet were passed over as if totally
irrelevant. The scene at the trial could have been a
bit longer, or could at least have been followed by a
scene between Harry and Neville or Harry and
Dumbledore further exploring the connection between
Neville's parents, Crouch Jr., and the Curses that so
upset Neville in the earlier DADA class. I agree with
another poster (forgive me for not being able to name
you or quote you at the moment) - why bother having
Neville get upset about the Curses if you don't go on
and spend a little more time on that plot? 

Secondly, having Harry show no reaction to the news
that Snape was indeed a Death Eater (confirmed by
Dumbledore, no less) was unforgivable, especially in
light of Snape's forthcoming role in the series. I
suppose that the filmmakers may have considered
establishing Barty Crouch Jr.'s evil credentials at
the trial the main point of that scene in the context
of the film, but how they are going to stuff all these
important pieces of foreshadowing into a later movie
is beyond me. Besides, as I said, we know now how
important a role Snape has to play. You would think it
would be more of a concern to each filmmaker to give
some hint of that in each film.

In agreement with you, Cassie, I think the scene that
really went too fast for my liking was that of Harry's
confrontation with Voldemort in the graveyard.
Everything happened too fast, and the speed of all the
events prevented there from being the really profound
emotional payoff there could have been. It was a
moment that the whole film had been building up to -
and all three previous films, in a way. It was the
great return of the arch villain, a moment when Harry
is faced with the real possibility of death, a
terrifying situation that he is aided in escaping by
the "ghosts" of his parents, no less. I thought Ralph
Fiennes was wonderful, but I also thought the whole
scene could have been so much more powerful, so much
more terrifying and sad, if it had just been set at a
slower, more menacing pace. It didn't bother me that
we sped through the World Cup, the second and third
tasks, and even the Yule Ball to some extent. But the
graveyard scene was the big one, the one I'd been
waiting to see, and they might have at least let that
one play out at a more leisurely pace.

Sara
 


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com



From juli17 at aol.com  Mon Nov 21 01:54:11 2005
From: juli17 at aol.com (juli17 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 20:54:11 EST
Subject: Snape and DD in GoF /Random ramblings on GoF
Message-ID: <d1.349c25a0.30b282c3@aol.com>

 
Lupinlore:

Did anyone else notice that Snape's part was relatively  small?  I
particularly noticed the lack of the final scene in the  hospital wing,
i.e. the "show our Dark Mark to Fudge and return to spy on  Voldemort"
scene.

Now, I wonder why that scene was left out?  My  own thought is that the
film makers are unsure what JKR intends to do with  Snape, and
therefore have decided to play it safe by keeping his part  minimal. 
That way they don't risk inadvertantly taking him in the  "wrong"
direction.

 
Julie:
Part of the reason it was left out might have been because  Karkaroff
accuses Snape in the Pensieve scene, and Dumbledore gives his 
"Snape is now no more a Death Eater than I am" speech. Thus those
who haven't read the books are given this important exposition. (I 
don't think it was mentioned earlier.)
 
Also, it's going to come up again in OotP, when the Order takes 
a prominent role, and Snape is part of the Order. So maybe they
decided it was redundant on both points to include that scene--
even though it was a great one, and I wanted to see it!
 



Diana:
I didn't get the line reading that Hermione gave at the end  
either.  "Everything is going to change now, isn't it?" has been  
playing in the trailers consistently, yet it's set up to imply she's  
either talking about their inerpersonal relationships or perhaps 
Harry's  being entered in the tournament or maybe even after the 
reconcilliation of  Harry and Ron.  I was quite surprised to see it 
pop up at the end in  reference to the impending gloom that is 
inevitable due to the return of  Lord Voldemort!  

Why say the line with a suppressed smile?  It  makes no sense.  I 
suppose it could be an example of gallows humor, but  that's 
defnitely Ron's forte, not Hermione's.  I'll be interested to  see 
that scene again when I see the movie a second time.  Hagrid's  
dialog in the book about facing what's coming would have been a 
great  ending scene, I agree.
 
Julie:
I thought Hermoine's smile was very wry. She looked quite  anxious
and a bit sad. It was kind of "our childhood's gone, and it won't  come
again" moment. At least it came across that way to me. 
 
Sherry:
Anyway, how does this somewhat lighter seeming ending--just going on  the
descriptions here so far--set up the scene for Harry's mindset and mood  at
the beginning of OOTP? He's in pretty bad shape at the beginning of  that
one. I'm just curious if people think this ending really gives us that  kind
of preparation.
 
Julie:
Harry wasn't really taking part in the lighter bit though, as I recall.  The
first shot we get of him is standing on the bridge staring out over  the
water, looking pensive. Though he did smile a bit at the Durmstrang
ship departing. Still, he seemed a bit melancholy to me, except when
Hermoine said "Everything's going to change now, isn't it?" and he
smiled deliberately to comfort her when he replied "Yes."
 
So I can see the end leading into Harry's dark mood in OotP, as 
long as they allude to his bad dreams after he's returned to Privet
Drive. Post-traumatic stress (as I think Harry displayed in OotP)
does take a while to manifest, as the person affected often tries to
ignore or "shoulder" the stress first, without actually facing it. 
 
Julie 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From bree4378 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 21 02:53:29 2005
From: bree4378 at yahoo.com (Sabrina)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 02:53:29 -0000
Subject: my opinion/Sherry
Message-ID: <dlrcr9+jm88@eGroups.com>

Okay, 

I finally saw the film today. I liked it a lot, and can say that it 
is my favorite film of the series.  However, there were a few things 
that were disappointing and few things that were better than I 
expected it to be.  

I'll start with the good points.  I loved the scenes introducing the 
foreign students, the Weasley twins attempt to enter the tournament, 
and the Harry/Ron fall out.  I was beyond impressed with the first 
task scene and the Dragon in particular. I was equally impressed with 
the Yule Ball and the Second Task.  I was greatful that the ferret 
scene and Harry in the bath with Myrtle were included, and new scenes 
(Ron and McGonagall dancing) which brought comic relief. The one 
thing that was better than I anticipated were the performances by not 
only the trio, but twins and Matt (neville).  Mad Eye was also 
perfectly cast.  I liked Dan in the Dragon, and Voldemort scenes, and 
Emma did well in the Yule Ball scenes, showing real emotion and 
frustration.  I think Rupert gave the best performance of the trio, 
able to show his range,  showing anger, frustration, jealousy, and 
humor.  His comedic timing is perfect, and I'm glad that he was given 
the chance to shine in this film, as he was brushed off in PoA.  

Now for the disappointments.  The speed of the first few scenes.  I 
felt bad for anyone who was watching, and who hadn't read the books.  
The opening started off well enough, with the Riddle house, and then 
Harry waking up, having dreamt it, and then the kids off to the World 
Cup by Port Key.  Then, I actually felt my heart sink a little, when 
there was NO Quidditch.  I would have preferred they skipped the 
whole port key and tent scene, just to have five minutes worth of 
Quidditch.  After that the riots took a second, and then the kids 
were suddenly on the train to Hogwarts.  My second disappointment was 
that certain characters and storylines were not emphasized.  
Neville's parents, Barty Jr., Snape being a deatheater years ago.  
Finally, I was disappointed that there was not one encounter in the 
maze.  No spider, skrewt, sphinx, nothing.  I could have sworn Cedric 
and Harry were going to encounter the spider when they were running 
for the cup, but there was NOTHING.  I wish we'd seen the skrewts as 
well.  













From bree4378 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 21 03:16:30 2005
From: bree4378 at yahoo.com (Sabrina)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 03:16:30 -0000
Subject: Random Ramblings of GOF
Message-ID: <dlre6e+df26@eGroups.com>

Siriusly Snapey Susan:
I thought Ralph Fiennes was incredible. I was, personally, grateful
that the rebirthing wasn't drawn out at all. OTOH, this made
Wormtail end up looking more strong and stable than he was portrayed
in the book. He should've been writhing in agony, moaning and
screaming and begging and whimpering. Instead, he stood there like
his arm didn't even hurt and like he was totally "together." But
Fiennes as Voldemort was truly creepy, I thought.

Sabrina: 
I agree that Ralph Fiennes was fantastic as Voldy.  I'm glad that his 
rebirth was not drawn out as well.  I would have liked to see more of 
reaction from both Voldy and Harry, after their wands had connected, 
and see some shock on their faces as to what was happening. Also, 
when Harry saw his mom and dad come out of Voldy's wand.

Siriusly Snapey Susan:
There were two scenes with Dan, in particular, that I loved for how
they spoke to Harry's character. One, when he *thought* about going
on towards the cup (and admitted it) but changed his mind and went
back to help Cedric. I think that spoke to Harry's being, at heart,
Noble and True (capitalized on purpose). And I think when he
screwed up his face and stepped out from behind the gravestone,
facing Voldy and saying, "Have it your way, then," it spoke to
Harry's Bravery.

Sabrina:

I also cried in the scene when Harry returned with Cedric's body.  
Everyone was cheering, and there was festive music playing because 
everyone thought they made it back and Harry won.  Dan did a great 
job in that scene, crying over Cedric and not wanting to leave him.  
(He'll be an expert by the time Half-Blood Prince comes around and he 
has to cry over DD).  Once people realized what had happened and 
Cedric's dad started crying for his dead son, I lost it, and cried.  








From laurenmcoakley at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 21 03:31:54 2005
From: laurenmcoakley at yahoo.com (laurenmcoakley)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 03:31:54 -0000
Subject: The Movie
In-Reply-To: <dlntis+ng14@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlrf3a+vsi5@eGroups.com>

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E


Truthbeauty,
I agree with you 2000% on all accounts!  I was very impressed with 
the movie- I have already seen it twice this weekend!  The trio were 
better than they have ever been before!  I even liked the scene with 
Sirius in the embers...much different than I imagined from the book, 
but once I saw Mr. Newells adaptation, I was quite impressed.  I also 
enjoyed the British director this time around.  There was a very 
distinct feeling that this was a "british" movie, something I never 
felt from the others, despite the accents.  Maybe it was something 
about Harry calling Ron "a git" when they were fighting.  The twins 
were WONDERFUL- I enjoyed them so much that I, too, laughed out loud 
in the theatre. Both times!  The only negative that I feel IMHO is 
the music.  I truly felt the new composer's pieces were prety bland 
and just too much classical.  Mr. Williams, I feel, has such a 
distinct flair that he knows how to create music to portray a mood 
that, though the trio in earlier films acted out, his music really 
made you fell it as well, if their performances weren't the most 
convincing.  Thank goodness this time around their acting was what it 
was!   

Great movie!  I loved it completely!





--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "truthbeauty1" <rh64643 at a...> 
wrote:
>
>  
> S
> P
> O
> I
> L
> E
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was by far the best movie in the series. The way the world cup
> was handled was brilliant. There were a lot of changes throuhout the
> whole movie, but they were much more satisfying than the changes 
made
> in P.O.A. The only dissapointing things for me was the lack of the 
hug
> from Molly and the no show from Sirius in the end. The acting of the
> trio and other school kids has improved like 200% from the last 
movie.
> I almost cried when the portkey took Harry and Cedrics body back to
> Hogarts. The acting in that scene was great from everyone. Fred and
> George are amazing in this one. I laughed out loud at them. 
McGonagall
> has some really great scenes as well. Everyone seems upset about the
> DD manhadleing Harry scene. While it is not cannon, I think it was
> used to show DD's growing fear about Voldemort and for Harry. I 
don't
> get angry from DD, I get fear. The study hall scene was really 
funny.
> The post Yule ball scene was excellent. It felt just like the book.
> You wanted to laugh, but at the same time you felt soo bad for
> Hermione. The most encouraging thing about this movie, is that they
> are beginning to give more screen time to minor characters who are
> soon to become, not so minor. For example, Ginny is definitely
> featured more and Neville gets soo much more on screen time, which 
is
> excellent. Draco had like very little screen time, but I didn't 
really
> miss him. The bath scene with Myrtle was hilarious. Very pervy haha.
> While it obvious in this movie that the main cast is growing up, 
they
> do not look too mature for the parts. I mean, to me, they look like 
14
> year old kids. I loved this movie soo much. It was incrdible and 
eerie
> and kind of scary. I was on the edge of my seat, and I have read the
> book at least 7 times. 
> truthbeauty1
>








From laurenmcoakley at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 21 03:43:38 2005
From: laurenmcoakley at yahoo.com (laurenmcoakley)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 03:43:38 -0000
Subject: Random ramblings on GoF
In-Reply-To: <dlocva+mknl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlrfpa+fg0g@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Eustace_Scrubb" <dk59us at y...> 
wrote:

Just wanted to add my 2 cents to this subject...


> 
> Siriusly Snapey Susan:
> > MISSED the actual "tasks within the task" of the maze.  I do 
> > understand why they eliminated them, and the way it was done was 
> > striking, visually, but I did so enjoy all of that in the book.
> 
> Eustace_Scrubb:
> The whole maze scene was one of my biggest peeves with the movie and
> those I attended with as well.  Was a CG sphinx and another giant
> spider just too boring for them?  The constantly changing pattern of
> vegetation made me feel that an Ent or maybe Old Man Willow should
> have been in the middle of the maze.  This was a change for which I
> could see no good reason.  (The over-the-top handling of Harry's 
duel
>with the Horntail didn't bother me nearly as much because that just
> seemed like the typical movie-version exaggeration of the actual
> scene--like Harry hanging out of the Anglia by one hand instead of
> just getting bored eating candy with nothing to drink.)
>  
>  
Lauren:
I have to say, though I DID enjoy reading the 3rd task in the book, I 
completely understand why they cut it out for the movie.  By the time 
the movie finally got 'round to the 3rd task, I had been sitting on 
my butt so long it was numb!  And they really couldn't have taken out 
very much before that (ok, maybe trimmed the 1st task down a bit, but 
then what? It still wouldn't have been enough time, IMHO, to do a 
good job of the 3rd task bit.)  And though, there are alot of 
faithful book readers and fans that watch these films, there are MANY 
people who are not so into the book, and I think this was something 
that they felt they could trim.  Which, again, IMHO, was not such a 
bad decision at that particular point in the movie.







From vincentjh at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 21 04:59:08 2005
From: vincentjh at yahoo.com (vincentjh)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 04:59:08 -0000
Subject: Steve Kloves Interview
Message-ID: <dlrk6s+v720@eGroups.com>

Sorry for interrupting the discussion on GOF. Just thought I'd bring
this interview with Steve Kloves to your attention.

http://www.calendarlive.com/movies/cl-ca-kloves20nov20,2,1245118.story

I am a little surprised by what he said about Grint, seeing that the
character was diminished so much in CoS and PoA. (I am not talking
about the amount of time he has on screen but the way Ron has been
turned into no more than a comic relief.) Could be interesting to see
how he interprets the characters for HBP.






From rdas at facstaff.wisc.edu  Mon Nov 21 12:25:12 2005
From: rdas at facstaff.wisc.edu (susanbones2003)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:25:12 -0000
Subject: Random Ramblings of GOF
In-Reply-To: <dlre6e+df26@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlseb8+e113@eGroups.com>


> Sabrina:
> 
> I also cried in the scene when Harry returned with Cedric's body.  
> Everyone was cheering, and there was festive music playing because 
> everyone thought they made it back and Harry won.  Dan did a great 
> job in that scene, crying over Cedric and not wanting to leave him.  
> (He'll be an expert by the time Half-Blood Prince comes around and he 
> has to cry over DD).  Once people realized what had happened and 
> Cedric's dad started crying for his dead son, I lost it, and cried.
>
Sabrina,
I thought it spoke so well of Dan's growing talent how easily he 
displayed emotion this time round. I felt so awful for him in POA when 
he was sitting on that rock, under the invisibililty cloak and this 
terribly unnatural sound was coming out. I thought he did a fabulous 
job this time at showing all kinds of emotions. The fear in his face 
before the first task was palpable! My fists were clenched the whole 
time. When he brought Cedric back, I was blown away at the tragedy and 
irony as you all mentioned. People cheering and bands playing and lots 
of merriment and no one understanding (until Fleur) that Harry's 
sobbing and Cedric is dead. Dan's performance was so true, so honest, I 
was crying and didn't realize it. Dan rose to the challenge of this 
movie so manfully. I am so proud!
Jen







From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Nov 21 13:43:31 2005
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:43:31 -0000
Subject: Snape and DD in GoF
In-Reply-To: <dlop33+n2hn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlsiu3+97km@eGroups.com>

lupinlore wrote:
> Of course we DID have that interesting insert of DD, Snape, and McG
> talking about Harry's name coming out of the GoF.  I did wonder 
> about what Kloves/Newell were trying to do there.  Were they trying 
> to make DD's actions/attitudes clearer?  I have to say the people I 
> saw the movie with didn't care for the scene much, as they thought 
> it made DD look uncaring and manipulative, as well as thinking it 
> was unnecessary given the "magically binding contract".  On the 
> other hand was the whole purpose of the scene to underscore that 
> Snape was the one who brought up the idea of allowing Harry to 
> continue in the tournament?
> 
> <Shrug.>  I don't really know.  


SSSusan:
I've seen the film three times, and the scene really *is* a puzzle in 
some ways.  While I loved how McGonagall came across in that scene, 
because her concern for Harry was palpable, the rest is hard to 
grasp, imo.  

I think we're supposed to see a DD who's *not* totally in control and 
knows it, a DD who's confused and flustered beyond his comfort zone.  
But Snape is (how appropriate ;-)) an enigma.  When he suggests that, 
in light of these recent activities, they let events, for the time 
being at least, simply unfold, what IS behind that?  A hatred of 
Potter?  A desire to help Voldy?  A chance to discover who, within 
Hogwarts, is introducing the danger?  We don't know.  

But what also struck me was the feeling I got, somehow, that Snape & 
DD had *discussed* things before this little conversation.  Not 
necessarily the GoF and what happened with it, but certainly the 
ugliness at the QWC, the Dark Mark in the sky, and what it all might 
mean.  Somehow, when Snape suggested letting things unfold, I just 
had a feeling that DD knew what he meant (whatever that was!).

As for how this scene portrayed DD, I do think that in going along 
with Snape's suggestion, especially in light of McGonagall's *firm* 
suggestion that doing so meant using Harry as bait, DD knew he was 
manipulating more than a little bit.  I think we get his 
*acknowledgment* of that in the dormitory-with-Harry scene near the 
end.  DD there states, "I put you in *terrible* danger this year, 
Harry."  Not exactly an apology, but definitely an admission.  He did 
not say, "This magical binding contract put you in terrible danger;" 
he said, "*I* put you in terrible danger."

Anyway, I think this scene -- DD's response to McGonagall & Snape -- 
is at least part of why I was a little upset that I didn't get the 
sense from Gambon!DD that he truly loved & cared about Harry (esp. in 
contrast to MM) *at this point.*  Now, later in the movie, especially 
in the dormitory scene, I felt that Gambon!DD matched *my* (may not 
be others') sense of a DD who cares about & loves Harry very much.

My two knuts.
Siriusly Snapey Susan
  






From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Nov 21 13:50:18 2005
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:50:18 -0000
Subject: The ending of GoF (was: Random ramblings on GoF)
In-Reply-To: <dlou35+q7dh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlsjaq+p7pg@eGroups.com>

Alla:
> > Yes, I did not "feel" the ending at all.
 
Alora: 
> I have to agree.  I disliked the ending.  I think they were trying to 
> end it on a "high" note, but how can you?  The Dark Lord is back.  I 
> wanted to hear Hagrid say, "What's comin will come and we'll face it 
> when it does"  thing.  I really wanted it to stay true to the feeling 
> that everything is not going to go well, even if they did leave out 
> the hospital scene.  Somewhere, that feeling of impending doom could 
> have been snuck in.  Oh well, I can't have it all....


SSSusan:
As I admitted in my last post, I've seen it 3 times now, and I have to 
agree that the ending is... not quite enough.  

Not that I object to Hermione's saying, "Everything's going to change 
now, isn't it?" and Dan's response, "Yes."  Because that's the honest 
answer.  

But it was abrupt.  I felt the scene started fine, with Rupert 
asking, "Are we ever going to have just a slow [? - what was the word?] 
year at Hogwarts?" and grinning.  But without, as others have stated, 
any mention of the Order, any discussion about what might happen now, 
without any Snape-shows-Fudge-the-Dark-Mark scene, without DD's sending 
Snape on his mission, it was just kinda of BOOM! the year's over.

As to whether they were attempting to make this a high note kind of 
ending, if that was the goal, I think it failed!  On the three viewings 
I sat through, the theater was in *total silence* at the end of each.  
I thought it was a *sobering* ending.

Well, either that or people were puzzled, thinking, "Huh.  THAT'S the 
end?" ;-)

Siriusly Snapey Susan







From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Nov 21 14:07:33 2005
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:07:33 -0000
Subject: ??Barty Jr??Initial review by Diana L. - Krum Bewitched.
In-Reply-To: <dlr32a+r6cu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlskb5+2t3i@eGroups.com>

Diana:
> I've only seen the movie once so far, so I'm not even sure of the 
> wording, but I'm positive Moody!Barty Jr. made some comment to 
> Harry about Krum's actions in the maze being his doing. Please 
> correct me if I'm wrong on this point.

Cheryl:
> I've seen the movie twice and I do not recall Barty Jr. telling 
> anyone that Harry's success was due to his interference.



He said, "You won because I made it so.  You were in the graveyard 
because it was meant to be so."  (Or something very near to that.)  
And he did give examples of ways he'd stepped in -- showing Hagrid 
the dragons, telling Cedric to take the egg under water.  I don't 
*think* he came right out and said anything specific to manipulating 
Krum, only that line I included in my first sentence.

Siriusly Snapey Susan







From dontask2much at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 21 15:19:23 2005
From: dontask2much at yahoo.com (Charme)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:19:23 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] The ending of GoF (was: Random ramblings on GoF)
References: <dlsjaq+p7pg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <010a01c5eeae$f4c1d0f0$6701a8c0@MITRE.ORG>

Alla:
>> > Yes, I did not "feel" the ending at all.

Alora:
>> I have to agree.  I disliked the ending.  I think they were trying to
>> end it on a "high" note, but how can you?  The Dark Lord is back.

<snip>

>>  Somewhere, that feeling of impending doom could
>> have been snuck in.  Oh well, I can't have it all....


SSSusan:
>As I admitted in my last post, I've seen it 3 times now, and I have to
a>gree that the ending is... not quite enough.

>Not that I object to Hermione's saying, "Everything's going to change
> now, isn't it?" and Dan's response, "Yes."  Because that's the honest
>answer.

>But it was abrupt. <snip>

Charme, finally caught up from her ARC disaster efforts, waving to Alla and 
SSSusan, and about to go on vacation:

I think why you feel odd about the ending is that this time, there's really 
"closure" lesson Harry learns from DD, albeit a very serious "you are not 
alone." One did not come away from this film feeling as though Harry "won" 
with that warm and fuzzy we're used to in the ending of prior Potter movies; 
on the contrary, Harry is just beginning the battle for what ultimately will 
be the final conflict with Voldemort. This is much more in-your-face 
presentation of that fact (made me feel odd until I figured out why) which 
only half succeeds in the actual book - a book that doesn't truly manage to 
hammer home to most readers (be they young or old) just how awful a position 
in which Harry is placed, nor the magnitude of the evil he'll fight.

Some reviews you might be interested in including my own:
http://www.i66.com/index.php/2005/11/19/harry-potter-gof-movie-review/

And for the love of God, you simply must read movie critic Rex Reed's column 
in the New York Observer, as it is apparent that HE has issues requiring 
therapy as he notices (and prints) that Dan has hairy legs, an Adam's apple, 
and a "buldge in his pants"  and Emma Watson has "cleavage." (no, these are 
not my words - they are his.)
http://www.newyorkobserver.com/culture_rexreed-2.asp

Much Potter Thanksgiving Love -
Charme









From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 21 18:04:19 2005
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora67)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:04:19 -0000
Subject: Rex Reed article
Message-ID: <dlt273+unad@eGroups.com>

Wow, I read that article, Charme, and was it harsh.

He said he couldn't find any humor in it.  ????!  I thought it had 
many funny bits.  But, I suppose that is the sort of interview you get 
from someone that isn't a die-hard fan.  Maybe he is and I don't know 
it?  But I thought it was a really harsh review.  

Of course, he's right about not bringing small children this time.  I 
left my 6 yr old at home, although she has seen LOTR and Pirates of 
the Caribbean (the hazards of having three older brothers), I'm going 
to wait on GoF for her.  I think the only scene that might bother her 
would be the graveyard one.  We all know that things are getting 
scarier and darker...

I hate to see reviews like that. :(

Alora 






From artsylynda at aol.com  Mon Nov 21 18:23:49 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:23:49 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Digest Number 1327
Message-ID: <1a8.4451f901.30b36ab5@aol.com>

 
 
In a message dated 11/21/2005 8:29:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com writes:

To your  question, JKR doesn't bring the order into the series 
until the 5th  installment.   I never assumed that there would 
be advance  mention of them in GOF.  The movie mentions extra 
security, as does  the book, at Hogwarts.  When reading it for 
the first time, I assumed  it was simply because of the Tourney. 
After reading the rest of them, I  guess they are the Order.

Lorie


At the end of GoF, DD has Sirius and somebody else go and gather  the "old 
crowd" -- Arabella Figg, etc.  This is mentioned specifically, as  is DD's 
comment to Fudge that they've reached "the parting of the ways."   DD asks the 
Weasleys if he can depend on them, and Bill goes off to do an errand  for him (on 
Order business, we know now that we know about the Order).  So  the Order is 
not mentioned by name, but it is certainly talked about in the end  of GoF -- 
as I recall, and I haven't read it in a while.
 
Lynda AKA "Abraxan"

Read my Harry Potter fics here:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From artsylynda at aol.com  Mon Nov 21 18:26:51 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:26:51 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] DVD
Message-ID: <6b.51d61143.30b36b6b@aol.com>

 
 
In a message dated 11/21/2005 8:29:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com writes:


This  brings to mind a question I have had.  Has anyone hard when 
the DVD  is scheduled to release?  I am hoping they are going to 
do an  "extended" DVD (as was done with the LOTR ones) and put a 
lot of the  missing scenes back in.

Lorie


David Heyman (the producer) has said there will never be extended  
("director's cut") versions of the HP films because what hits the theaters IS  the 
"director's cut."  *sigh*  If he had a clue, he could sell a LOT  more DVDs by 
releasing first the theatrical version, then the extended version,  as they did 
for Lord of the Rings.  Then again, I resented LotR for trying  to milk so much 
money out of the buying public and refused to buy the  extended versions once 
my hubby had gifted me with the theatrical  ones.  *sigh*  

Lynda AKA "Abraxan"

Read my Harry Potter fics here:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From artsylynda at aol.com  Mon Nov 21 18:31:48 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:31:48 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Barty Jr??
Message-ID: <cf.34a5a2eb.30b36c94@aol.com>

 
 
In a message dated 11/21/2005 8:29:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com writes:


I've  seen the movie twice and I do not recall Barty Jr. telling anyone 
that  Harry's success was due to his  interference.
Cheryl





Barty Jr (Mad-Eye) tells Harry himself that he was the  one who engineered 
Harry's success.  Harry probably told DD and others  later (if asked -- we all 
know Harry doesn't volunteer information all that  often. . .)  

Lynda AKA "Abraxan"

Read my Harry Potter fics here:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From bob.oliver at cox.net  Mon Nov 21 16:59:14 2005
From: bob.oliver at cox.net (lupinlore)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:59:14 -0000
Subject: Snape and DD in GoF/missing scene/setup for OOTP
In-Reply-To: <dlsiu3+97km@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlsud2+411e@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "cubfanbudwoman" 
<susiequsie23 at s...> wrote:

<SNIP>
> 
> As for how this scene portrayed DD, I do think that in going along 
> with Snape's suggestion, especially in light of McGonagall's 
*firm* 
> suggestion that doing so meant using Harry as bait, DD knew he was 
> manipulating more than a little bit.  I think we get his 
> *acknowledgment* of that in the dormitory-with-Harry scene near 
the 
> end.  DD there states, "I put you in *terrible* danger this year, 
> Harry."  Not exactly an apology, but definitely an admission.  He 
did 
> not say, "This magical binding contract put you in terrible 
danger;" 
> he said, "*I* put you in terrible danger."

Well, there is also the factor of the "missing scene" mentioned by 
artslynda in post# 11476.

Artslynda:

One scene that didn't make it into the final cut of the movie that I 
think should have been kept was the one (shown on the "making of" 
specials, etc.) where DD tells Harry he can no longer protect him, 
and Harry said, "If you can't, then who can?" (or words to that 
effect). That bit explains DD's actions in the trophy room and his 
uneasiness at other times -- he was terrified because Harry was 
being made a pawn in some kind of game.

Now Lupinlore:

This is a very interesting point.  I wonder where that scene was 
supposed to go?  If it went sometime BEFORE the "decision" scene 
with Snape, McGonagall, and Dumbledore (and by the way, did anybody 
else think that Newell was trying to give an eerie echo of the trio 
with having those three together having a heart-to-heart?) then it 
might indicate that Dumbledore, in addition to talking things over 
with Snape, had also talked things over with *Harry*.  Dumbledore 
could easily have had such a talk with Harry at any point between 
the arrival of the Hogwarts Express and the name coming out of the 
goblet, i.e. he could have been warning Harry that Voldemort and his 
followers were accelerating their plans and that events might well 
slip out of Dumbledore's control.  That would reduce the level of 
manipulation involved, since he would not be using Harry as a pawn 
but would be going ahead, very reluctantly, with a policy he had 
already warned Harry he might have to pursue.

I would point out that the "decision" scene also contrasts somewhat 
with the later scene where Harry overhears Dumbledore trying to 
browbeat Fudge into calling off the tournament.  I mean, if letting 
Harry compete is totally a ploy by Dumbledore, why is he trying to 
get the tournament called off?  I understand that he wants to 
protect all of the participants, but if he has control over Harry's 
(and for that matter, Cedric's) participation why would he not just 
defy the rules as Minerva wishes him to and announce that things 
have become much too dangerous and murky and that he is withdrawing 
the Hogwarts participants and urging Karkaroff and Madam Maxime to 
follow suit?

Maybe (and I'm spinning my wheels wildly here) we are supposed to 
believe that Dumbledore is concerned about Harry's (and Cedric's) 
feelings and he's worried that if he just forbids Harry to 
participate without providing some face-saving device that Harry 
will be permanently ostracized from the student body (i.e. he'll 
forever afterwards be the big baby who snuck his name into the 
Goblet and then had to be rescued by Dumbledore overriding the 
rules).  He may also be concerned that if the ministry insists upon 
the "binding contract" they might try to persecute Harry for 
embarassing them if some face-saving device can't be found (and 
after all subsequent events prove he would be right in his reading 
of the Ministry's likely reaction).

And maybe Kloves and Newell, in a tradition to which JKR herself is 
not a stranger, just weren't being completely coherent.




> 
> Anyway, I think this scene -- DD's response to McGonagall & Snape -
- 
> is at least part of why I was a little upset that I didn't get the 
> sense from Gambon!DD that he truly loved & cared about Harry (esp. 
in 
> contrast to MM) *at this point.*  Now, later in the movie, 
especially 
> in the dormitory scene, I felt that Gambon!DD matched *my* (may 
not 
> be others') sense of a DD who cares about & loves Harry very much.
> 

True.  I do think, by the way, that Dumbledore's "I'm sorry," in the 
dormitory was in way of an apology.  I mean, he could easily have 
said "I'm sorry, but I had no choice."  By leaving it simply at "I'm 
sorry," I think an apology is being offered, rather awkwardly (and 
one of the nicest things about the scene is that Dumbledore seems 
rather awkward and unsure of himself, even to the point of starting 
the conversation with a pointless comment about the bed curtains).  
I think the rather tentative caress he gives Harry at the end of the 
scene is also meant to convey an awkward sense of apology.

But the other reason I think the "I'm sorry" is an awkward apology 
is that it sets things up so nicely for OOTP.  Taking Dumbledore 
altogether as he's presented in GoF (the puzzling matter of 
the "decision" scene aside), we have a man who has watched, 
fearfully, as Harry has been put in danger.  By the end of the movie 
he is unnerved by events and sorry for his decisions.  The stage is 
now set for fifth year, where Dumbledore will be fiercely determined 
to keep Harry safe (i.e. NOT to have a repeat of last year, thank 
you very much) and to protect Harry from emotional burdens (i.e. to 
make up for letting him bear so much last year).  I think that 
Dumbledore's specific emphasis on "this year" in the scene (i.e. 
NOT "I put you in terrible danger" but "I put you in terrible danger 
THIS YEAR") may be a subtle bit of foreshadowing, as well.  In that 
sense, I think Kloves has helped JKR out quite a bit, in that he has 
prepared the way for OOTP!Dumbledore much better than JKR herself 
did.


Lupinlore








From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Nov 21 20:11:59 2005
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 20:11:59 -0000
Subject: Snape and DD in GoF/missing scene/setup for OOTP
In-Reply-To: <dlsud2+411e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlt9mf+s3ca@eGroups.com>

Lupinlore:
> Well, there is also the factor of the "missing scene" mentioned by 
> artslynda in post# 11476.

Artslynda:
> One scene that didn't make it into the final cut of the movie that 
> I think should have been kept was the one (shown on the "making of" 
> specials, etc.) where DD tells Harry he can no longer protect him, 
> and Harry said, "If you can't, then who can?" (or words to that 
> effect). That bit explains DD's actions in the trophy room and his 
> uneasiness at other times -- he was terrified because Harry was 
> being made a pawn in some kind of game.

Lupinlore:
> This is a very interesting point.  I wonder where that scene was 
> supposed to go?  If it went sometime BEFORE the "decision" scene 
> with Snape, McGonagall, and Dumbledore ...then it might indicate 
> that Dumbledore, in addition to talking things over with Snape, had 
> also talked things over with *Harry*.  Dumbledore could easily have 
> had such a talk with Harry at any point between the arrival of the 
> Hogwarts Express and the name coming out of the goblet, i.e. he 
> could have been warning Harry that Voldemort and his followers were 
> accelerating their plans and that events might well slip out of 
> Dumbledore's control.  That would reduce the level of manipulation 
> involved, since he would not be using Harry as a pawn but would be 
> going ahead, very reluctantly, with a policy he had already warned 
> Harry he might have to pursue.

SSSusan:
Hmmmm.  "Where was this scene supposed to go?" is a good question.  
Lynda, if you're around, could you tell from the context when you saw 
the "Making of" special at what point in the story this would have 
come?

When I read Lynda's description earlier, I know that I *imagined* it 
as at some point *into* the tournament, or even after the graveyard 
scene -- you know, once Voldy was BACK.  But now that I think about 
it, that latter possibility wouldn't make sense, because of the 
dormitory speech, when DD told Harry he was *not* alone, that his 
friends were with him.  (Ack, I'm paraphrasing badly, but hopefully 
you know what I mean.)  

I wonder if that bit wasn't part of the immediate aftermath of the 
GoF name-spitting?  I'm trying to imagine how the scene could have 
fit *before* that happened, and I just can't think of how the topic 
of his safety would've come up logically before then.  The GENERAL 
issue of safety, because of the QWC events, yes, but not Harry 
specifically.


Lupinlore:
> I would point out that the "decision" scene also contrasts somewhat 
> with the later scene where Harry overhears Dumbledore trying to 
> browbeat Fudge into calling off the tournament.  I mean, if letting 
> Harry compete is totally a ploy by Dumbledore, why is he trying to 
> get the tournament called off?  I understand that he wants to 
> protect all of the participants, but if he has control over Harry's 
> (and for that matter, Cedric's) participation why would he not just 
> defy the rules as Minerva wishes him to and announce that things 
> have become much too dangerous and murky and that he is withdrawing 
> the Hogwarts participants and urging Karkaroff and Madam Maxime to 
> follow suit?

SSSusan:
I definitely saw DD's decision to go with Snape's suggestion as 
a "Let's *see* how it goes" kind of thing, as opposed to a ploy to 
see that Harry would stick out the whole tournament.  (Didn't Snape 
phrase it in such a way that it would be a "for the time being" kind 
of thing?)  But yet, you make a good point when you ask why DD didn't 
just PULL Cedric & Harry if he thought the whole thing should be 
called off after BCS's death?  Unless we're back to the idea that it 
really *is* a bindng magical contract and DD really couldn't have 
pulled Harry even if he wanted to.  But why wouldn't he have answered 
thusly to Minerva??  See?  It's muddled!


Lupinlore: 
> Maybe (and I'm spinning my wheels wildly here) we are supposed to 
> believe that Dumbledore is concerned about Harry's (and Cedric's) 
> feelings and he's worried that if he just forbids Harry to 
> participate without providing some face-saving device that Harry 
> will be permanently ostracized from the student body (i.e. he'll 
> forever afterwards be the big baby who snuck his name into the 
> Goblet and then had to be rescued by Dumbledore overriding the 
> rules).  He may also be concerned that if the ministry insists upon 
> the "binding contract" they might try to persecute Harry for 
> embarassing them if some face-saving device can't be found (and 
> after all subsequent events prove he would be right in his reading 
> of the Ministry's likely reaction).

SSSusan:
I do like that first possibility, of DD's thinking what the effect 
would be upon Harry if he did let him withdraw before even starting --
 how much he'd be ostracized and made fun of and all.  That would 
make me feel a little better about DD's decision to have Harry 
participate, but I still have to admit that I think a part of him 
appeared to want to let Harry serve as a "sussing out" agent for 
whoever might be behind the nastiness which was occurring.


Lupinlore:
> And maybe Kloves and Newell, in a tradition to which JKR herself is 
> not a stranger, just weren't being completely coherent.

SSSusan:
I'm thinking this just might be part of it.  I mean, *is* it a 
binding contract or not?  If it is, then DD didn't HAVE any decision 
he could make.  If Minerva was right that "the hell with Barty" was 
an option, then DD was manipulating some, I think.  Frustrating.  I 
think I need to get back to the BOOK and see what actually occurred 
there, because this movie scene (while fascinating to watch) doesn't 
mesh very well with canon.

 
Lupinlore:
> I think the rather tentative caress he gives Harry at the end of 
> the scene is also meant to convey an awkward sense of apology.

SSSusan:
Agreed.  An apology and an attempt to comfort a little, as well, I 
think.

Lupinlore: 
> But the other reason I think the "I'm sorry" is an awkward apology 
> is that it sets things up so nicely for OOTP.  Taking Dumbledore 
> altogether as he's presented in GoF (the puzzling matter of 
> the "decision" scene aside), we have a man who has watched, 
> fearfully, as Harry has been put in danger.  By the end of the 
> movie he is unnerved by events and sorry for his decisions.  The 
> stage is now set for fifth year, where Dumbledore will be fiercely 
> determined to keep Harry safe (i.e. NOT to have a repeat of last 
> year, thank you very much) and to protect Harry from emotional 
> burdens (i.e. to make up for letting him bear so much last year).  
<snip> In that sense, I think Kloves has helped JKR out quite a bit, 
> in that he has prepared the way for OOTP!Dumbledore much better 
> than JKR herself did.

SSSusan:
It *is* a nice lead-in to why DD tried to hard to keep Harry out of 
the (in his mind too dangerous) loop in OOTP.  OTOH, the OOTP!DD we 
see in canon is also *distant* from Harry, and I think the movie left 
me thinking that the DD we saw at the end of Harry's 4th year would 
try hard to be there for Harry.

I don't have any answers or insights (obviously!), but I do think 
this whole discussion of what these two or three scenes might have 
been about, might have been trying to convey, is a fascinating way of 
looking at what a screenwriter does.  I just wish I knew more of 
the "why" of what Kloves did with that "decision" scene and what he & 
Newell were trying to tell us concerning what DD is all about.

Or is this just one of those times when it's easier to take the movie 
at face value if you're not a huge fan of the books?

Siriusly Snapey Susan







From dontask2much at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 21 20:57:55 2005
From: dontask2much at yahoo.com (Charme)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:57:55 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Rex Reed article
References: <dlt273+unad@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <050c01c5eede$403f5550$6701a8c0@MITRE.ORG>

>alora:

>Wow, I read that article, Charme, and was it harsh.

>He said he couldn't find any humor in it.  ????!  I thought it had
>many funny bits.  But, I suppose that is the sort of interview you get
>from someone that isn't a die-hard fan.  Maybe he is and I don't know
>it?  But I thought it was a really harsh review.

<snip>.

>I think the only scene that might bother her
>would be the graveyard one.  We all know that things are getting
> scarier and darker...

>I hate to see reviews like that. :(

Charme now:

Hi alora! You're absolutely correct it was harsh - and obviously the windbag 
never read the books. Some things I just don't think you're going to *get* 
if you don't, know what I mean? :)  What bothered me most is his description 
of Daniel Radcliffe - I had to read it twice, then again out loud to my 
significant other to make sure my astonishment was warranted. Rex Reed 
usually doesn't get so...sooo...detailed about someone's appearance that 
way. Especially not a youngster.

I can see why you wouldn't take your daughter - in fact, the guy next to me 
in the theater said quietly to me during the graveyard scene (we'd chatted 
before the movie started and he'd professed to be an HP junkie too) "Wow. 
Look at my son's eyes. He's not liking this at ALL." His son was 7 years old 
and almost on queue said, "Daddy, Voldemort is scary. I don't like 
cemetaries.  I'm going to cover my eyes." So, I can totally see your point. 
Scarier and darker, indeed.

Charme









From bob.oliver at cox.net  Mon Nov 21 22:07:02 2005
From: bob.oliver at cox.net (lupinlore)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:07:02 -0000
Subject: Snape and DD in GoF/missing scene/setup for OOTP
In-Reply-To: <dlt9mf+s3ca@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dltge6+i930@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "cubfanbudwoman" 
<susiequsie23 at s...> wrote:
<SNIP>
> 
> SSSusan:
> It *is* a nice lead-in to why DD tried to hard to keep Harry out 
of 
> the (in his mind too dangerous) loop in OOTP.  OTOH, the OOTP!DD 
we 
> see in canon is also *distant* from Harry, and I think the movie 
left 
> me thinking that the DD we saw at the end of Harry's 4th year 
would 
> try hard to be there for Harry.
> 
> I don't have any answers or insights (obviously!), but I do think 
> this whole discussion of what these two or three scenes might have 
> been about, might have been trying to convey, is a fascinating way 
of 
> looking at what a screenwriter does.  I just wish I knew more of 
> the "why" of what Kloves did with that "decision" scene and what 
he & 
> Newell were trying to tell us concerning what DD is all about.
> 


The task of the screenwriter seems, in some ways, rather like that 
of an editor.  A good friend of mine had a pretty successful career 
as an editor before being crippled by MS.  She often opines (whether 
fairly or not I can't say) on the decline of the editing profession, 
saying that most editors now act as acquisition and administration 
agents for publishers, really doing nothing except sniffing out 
marketable manuscripts and arranging for them to be spell-checked 
and type-set.  In her view the editor is supposed to be the 
author's "friend," pointing out where they have mistakes and 
problems and trying to find ways to solve those difficulties.

Perhaps in reading GoF Kloves and Newell felt that JKR had problems 
in the text when it came to explaining Dumbledore's motivations and 
doing an appropriate setup for the next book, so they tried to "help 
her out."  Whether they did a good job or not is a matter of debate, 
particularly with regard to the "decision" scene.

I think if they are indeed trying to help in the setup for OOTP, it 
will be crucial to see how that book is handled (I believe by a new 
screenwriter/director team).  Kloves and Newell actually had a great 
advantage with GoF, as it is easily the most inherently cinematic of 
the books.  The Tri-Wizard Tournament is by its very nature a 
cinematic event, as are the Quidditch World Cup and Harry's 
confrontation with Voldemort in the graveyard, and the costumes and 
accents brought in by the contingents from Durmstrang and 
Beauxbatons are a film maker's dream .  OOTP, on the other hand, 
isn't nearly so cinematic, at least not until the very end with the 
fight at the MoM -- although some things such as the thestrals and 
the DA have a lot of potential.  I would think adapting it to a 
movie, particularly a movie that would not test the patience of the 
audience, would be quite a challenge.  Let's face it, much of the 
criticism of OOTP comes from the fact that people find it a murky, 
frustrating, plodding, and difficult story even as a *book* that you 
can put down, much less as a movie you have to sit through and 
watch. And I'm not sure that the device of withholding everything 
until the end and then having DD do a grand revelation would work as 
well in a movie (and it is of course not at all clear that it works 
that well in the book). 

The question of DD's behavior and attitude is one of the most 
controversial of the issues that plague OOTP.  How the director and 
screenwriter handle it will, I think, largely determine people's 
reaction.  Perhaps they will "play up" DD's belief in the inherent 
danger of him getting too close to Harry, and his determination not 
to put Harry in danger again.  If that is what they plan to do (and 
I think that would be far from the worst strategy), I wonder if one 
of two scenes similar to the "decision" sequence might help out.  
Granted, that would be a different approach than JKR tried in the 
book -- but a movie might require a very different strategy.  A 
scene or two along the way where Dumbledore explains his beliefs and 
motivations to the viewers, if not to Harry, would probably help 
keep the viewers engaged as well as preserving the image of DD we 
get at the end of GoF.  That is we might have a scene like:

MINERVA:  Albus, you know that horrible woman is trying to bring 
Harry down.  Don't you think you had better speak to him?

ALBUS: Voldemort is attempting to subvert Harry's mind, Minerva.  I 
would be putting him in horrible danger if I let him get close to 
me.  I put him in terrible danger last year, I will not do so 
again.  Just keep an eye on him.  I have every confidence that we 
can handle the likes of Dolores Umbridge. 

MINERVA:  But Albus...

ALBUS:  We are all worried, Minerva.  But I must protect Harry - I 
must.

MINERVA:  <Purses lips and looks very worried>

We probably won't see any such, but it *is* a way that they 
could "help JKR out" by making the whole thing more palatable as a 
movie while preserving the image of DD they seem to have been 
projecting in the later part of GoF and being reasonably faithful to 
canon in terms of DD's behavior.  Otherwise I'm afraid we'll have an 
entire movie of Angry!Harry and Frustrated!Harry and Untrustworthy!
Dumbledore and Distant!Minerva that will leave a bad taste in 
viewers' mouths (particularly after the portrayal of Minerva and DD 
in GoF) not much palliated by Dumbledore's big revelation at the end 
(as indeed was the case with the book).


Lupinlore








From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 21 22:55:56 2005
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:55:56 -0000
Subject: The ending of GoF (was: Random ramblings on GoF)/ Reed's review
In-Reply-To: <010a01c5eeae$f4c1d0f0$6701a8c0@MITRE.ORG>
Message-ID: <dltj9s+am2f@eGroups.com>


Charme:
> And for the love of God, you simply must read movie critic Rex 
Reed's column 
> in the New York Observer, as it is apparent that HE has issues 
requiring 
> therapy as he notices (and prints) that Dan has hairy legs, an 
Adam's apple, 
> and a "buldge in his pants"  and Emma Watson has "cleavage." (no, 
these are 
> not my words - they are his.)
> http://www.newyorkobserver.com/culture_rexreed-2.asp
> 
> Much Potter Thanksgiving Love -
> Charme
>

Alla:

Charme, you are back. :-) Please don't disappear on us any more. :-)

As to this review, you know I am a great believer in the idea that 
we could say any things positive or negative about books or movies, 
BUT such criticism only carries any weight for me if the person 
actually saw the movie or read the books and I have a lot of doubt 
that this guy actually saw the movie.

It is what Heidi said on OTC - bodies in every scene?  Wierd....

And of course you are right, he does seem to have  the issues.

Alla,

who is very happy to hear from Charme.






From anita_hillin at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 21 23:15:10 2005
From: anita_hillin at yahoo.com (AnitaKH)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:15:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: The ending of GoF (was: Random ramblings on GoF)/ Reed's review
In-Reply-To: <dltj9s+am2f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051121231510.33214.qmail@web30310.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

  Charme started it all with:
  > And for the love of God, you simply must read movie critic Rex  Reed's column in the New York Observer, as it is apparent that HE has  issues requiring therapy as he notices (and prints) that Dan has hairy  legs, an Adam's apple, and a "buldge in his pants"  and Emma  Watson has "cleavage." (no, these are not my words - they are his.)
  > http://www.newyorkobserver.com/culture_rexreed-2.asp
    
  Alla continued with:
  
As to this review, you know I am a great believer in the idea that 
  we could say any things positive or negative about books or movies, 
  BUT such criticism only carries any weight for me if the person 
  actually saw the movie or read the books and I have a lot of doubt 
  that this guy actually saw the movie.
  
  akh chimes in with:
  
  I finally broke down and read the review, although I find Rex Reed's  vitriol tiresome.  Once again, Rex is straining to toss witty  barbs at material he feels is beneath him.  Unfortunately, Rexie  baby, you just sound like a cranky old man.  (I'm actually  thinking of a more pejorative term, but we'll let that pass...)   It helps when the barbs are actually based on the movie in question,  too.  I read it to my office partner who asked the question we all  asked: just what movie did he see?
  
  On anther movie front, my office partner saw GOF this weekend, and  although she's surrounded by HP readers including her younger son and  her mother, they don't tell her the plot, in hopes she'll finally read  the books.  She had no trouble following it and declared the movie  "pretty wonderful."  Joan's a smart cookie, so she may not be  typical, but at least one non-reader had as good a time as us fanatics.
  
  akh, who'd better get cracking on her chapter discussion for the Other List...


		
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 Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From sgarfio at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 22 00:48:25 2005
From: sgarfio at yahoo.com (Sherry Garfio)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:48:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Random ramblings on GoF
In-Reply-To: <dlpg3t+r9q5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051122004826.75132.qmail@web53215.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Diana <dianasdolls at yahoo.com> wrote:

Regarding Hermione's "Everything is going to change now, isn't it?" line: 
> Why say the line with a suppressed smile?  It makes no sense.  
> I suppose it could be an example of gallows humor, but that's 
> defnitely Ron's forte, not Hermione's.

I actually liked this.  I didn't take it as a humorous smile at all, gallows or
otherwise.  I thought it was extreme uneasiness, and reluctance to bring up
Harry's role in what is to come.  She's smiling, but at the same time almost
crying (which she'd been doing a lot of; a person can only cry so much, after
which other expressions of sorrow crop up).  She looks very much like she's
trying desperately to hold herself together in her last few moments with her
best friends before the summer holidays.  Harry's response implies that he
alone has somewhat come to terms with what's coming.  In the books, this really
didn't happen until the end of OotP.  His reaction is much like Hagrid's
"what's coming will come and we'll deal with it" line from the book.  Pity
Hagrid wasn't there to deliver it, but that's how this scene felt to me.

Sherry Garfio


"Differences of habit and language are nothing at all if our aims are identical and our hearts are open."
    -- Albus Dumbledore, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire





		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com



From bree4378 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 22 01:01:56 2005
From: bree4378 at yahoo.com (Sabrina)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 01:01:56 -0000
Subject: Best Character Scenes
Message-ID: <dltqm4+78cm@eGroups.com>

I thought it would be fun to see what everyone's favorite character 
scenes were for each actor/actress.  

Dan - Cedric's Death Scene
Emma - Yule Ball Argument
Rupert - Telling Harry to "Piss Off"/ Yule Ball (its  a toss up)
Gleeson - DADA class
Rickman - not much to choose from here, but I liked when he smacked 
Harry and Ron around for talking in class.

Gambon - Ending Dormitory scene with Harry
Coltrane - Stabbing Flitwick with the fork
Matthew - i was so glad Neville got to do some more in this film, 
hopefully setting up for OOTP.  "I killed Harry Potter!"  The look 
on his face was priceless. 

I just loved all the scenes with the twins.

All the "newbies" were good with what they got.  However, i did not 
Clemensy's portrayal of Fleur at all. 

Sabrina







From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 22 01:27:30 2005
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 01:27:30 -0000
Subject: Best Character Scenes
In-Reply-To: <dltqm4+78cm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlts62+kti0@eGroups.com>

Sabrina  wrote:
>
> I thought it would be fun to see what everyone's favorite 
character 
> scenes were for each actor/actress.  
> 
> Dan - Cedric's Death Scene
> Emma - Yule Ball Argument
> Rupert - Telling Harry to "Piss Off"/ Yule Ball (its  a toss up)
> Gleeson - DADA class
> Rickman - not much to choose from here, but I liked when he 
smacked 
> Harry and Ron around for talking in class.
<SNIP>


Alla:

I think I agree with you picks, but I just want to add another one 
of Dan's scenes to the list of my favorites. I LOVED his performance 
in Cedric's death scene, but I also adored him when he tried to ask 
Cho to the ball. I think his awkwardness was perfect - spot on and 
Cho's " I did not catch that" was too funny.


I also have a hard time choosing favorite Rupert's scene. I think he 
was so good throughout the movie.

Alla






From bree4378 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 22 02:04:46 2005
From: bree4378 at yahoo.com (Sabrina)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 02:04:46 -0000
Subject: DVD
Message-ID: <dltubu+7j9k@eGroups.com>

I read the following on HPANA.com  This is not a confirmed date 
though as you can see in the paragraph.

'Goblet of Fire' DVD to be released in April?  
Posted by GERI
Source: VideoETA.com via Veritaserum 

With Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire just hitting movie theatres 
this weekend, a report from VideoETA.com, states that the DVD will 
be released on April 4, 2006.

During the New York premiere, Mike Newell said that there is about 
15 minutes from the movie that may be added to the DVD as well as a 
director's commentary.

It is not unusual for a DVD to be released 5 months after the movie 
has hit screens, but as of now this information needs to be 
confirmed by Warner Bros., and as soon as we hear officially that 
this is the date, we will inform everyone. 

Sabrina







From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 22 05:01:28 2005
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora67)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 05:01:28 -0000
Subject: Best Character Scenes
In-Reply-To: <dltqm4+78cm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlu8n8+jf87@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Sabrina" <bree4378 at y...> wrote:
>
> I thought it would be fun to see what everyone's favorite 
character 
> scenes were for each actor/actress.  
> 
> Dan - Cedric's Death Scene
> Emma - Yule Ball Argument
> Rupert - Telling Harry to "Piss Off"/ Yule Ball (its  a toss up)
> Gleeson - DADA class
> Rickman - not much to choose from here, but I liked when he 
smacked 
> Harry and Ron around for talking in class.
> 
> Gambon - Ending Dormitory scene with Harry
> Coltrane - Stabbing Flitwick with the fork
> Matthew - i was so glad Neville got to do some more in this film, 
> hopefully setting up for OOTP.  "I killed Harry Potter!"  The look 
> on his face was priceless. 
> 
> I just loved all the scenes with the twins.
> 
> All the "newbies" were good with what they got.  However, i did 
not 
> Clemensy's portrayal of Fleur at all. 
> 
> Sabrina


Ah, this is good!

Dan - dribbling juice all over himself while staring at Cho
Ron - the freak out scene when he's in the dress robes
Emma - ditto on the argument w/ Ron at the ball
Gleeson - the face he makes at McG after the ferret incident!
Rickman - ditto on the book/head whacking episode.  He looked as 
though he enjoyed it

Gambon - not sure yet, need to see the movie again
Coltran -  gettin' all handsy with Madame Maxine
Matthew - Neville dancing, and being excited about coming in late!  
ANd the "I killed HP!"  scream.  Great stuff.

Twins - Whichever one asked Angelina to the ball, can't remember.  
Loved how he did the dancing motion.  Also, loved them heckling Ron 
while he was dancing with McG

Alora :)








From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Tue Nov 22 13:56:52 2005
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 13:56:52 -0000
Subject: Snape and DD in GoF/missing scene/setup for OOTP
In-Reply-To: <dltge6+i930@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlv834+no6e@eGroups.com>

Lupinlore:
> I think if they are indeed trying to help in the setup for OOTP, it 
> will be crucial to see how that book is handled (I believe by a new 
> screenwriter/director team). 

SSSusan:
Indeed -- David Yates directing and Michael Goldenberg doing the 
screenwriting.


Lupinlore:
> Kloves and Newell actually had a great advantage with GoF, as it is 
> easily the most inherently cinematic of  the books.  The Tri-Wizard 
> Tournament is by its very nature a cinematic event, as are the 
> Quidditch World Cup and Harry's confrontation with Voldemort in the 
> graveyard, and the costumes and accents brought in by the 
> contingents from Durmstrang and Beauxbatons are a film maker's 
> dream .  OOTP, on the other hand, isn't nearly so cinematic, at 
> least not until the very end with the fight at the MoM ....

SSSusan:
I totally agree, and I don't envy at ALL the task facing Goldenberg & 
Yates!  Just sitting and thinking about OotP and which parts I would 
bring in is difficult.  It's LONGER than GoF and yet, as you say, 
there's much LESS that's easily adaptable cinematically (or at least 
so it seems to this non-expert/only-a-fan).


Lupinlore:
> The question of DD's behavior and attitude is one of the most 
> controversial of the issues that plague OOTP.  How the director and 
> screenwriter handle it will, I think, largely determine people's 
> reaction.  Perhaps they will "play up" DD's belief in the inherent 
> danger of him getting too close to Harry, and his determination not 
> to put Harry in danger again. 

SSSusan:
I hope that they do.  And they can still do it in a way which clues 
the *audience* in while leaving Harry frustratedly in the dark.  
Because that seems to me to be a key element of the story -- the 
misunderstanding between them, the way Harry feels betrayed by 
DD's "lack of interest."


Lupinlore proposed: 
> MINERVA:  Albus, you know that horrible woman is trying to bring 
> Harry down.  Don't you think you had better speak to him?
> 
> ALBUS: Voldemort is attempting to subvert Harry's mind, Minerva.  I 
> would be putting him in horrible danger if I let him get close to 
> me.  I put him in terrible danger last year, I will not do so 
> again.  Just keep an eye on him.  I have every confidence that we 
> can handle the likes of Dolores Umbridge. 
> 
> MINERVA:  But Albus...
> 
> ALBUS:  We are all worried, Minerva.  But I must protect Harry - I 
> must.
> 
> MINERVA:  <Purses lips and looks very worried>

SSSusan:
Yep, that would do it... and in a very short sequence as well (which 
I'm sure will be key when they've got 800+ pages to "translate" onto 
screen).


Lupinlore:
> Otherwise I'm afraid we'll have an entire movie of Angry!Harry and 
> Frustrated!Harry and Untrustworthy!Dumbledore and Distant!Minerva 
> that will leave a bad taste in viewers' mouths (particularly after 
> the portrayal of Minerva and DD in GoF) not much palliated by 
> Dumbledore's big revelation at the end (as indeed was the case with 
> the book).

SSSusan:
Right.  This is what I don't want to see.  I mean, I *do* think it 
would be "correct" to see a lot of Angry!Harry and Frustrated!Harry, 
but I want us the audience to be clued in to DD's true feelings and 
motivations so that we don't have to feel as Harry does, if that 
makes sense.

Siriusly Snapey Susan







From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Tue Nov 22 14:09:42 2005
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:09:42 -0000
Subject: Best Character Scenes
In-Reply-To: <dlu8n8+jf87@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dlv8r6+7jhp@eGroups.com>

Sabrina wrote:
> > I thought it would be fun to see what everyone's favorite 
> > character scenes were for each actor/actress.  
> > 
> > Dan - Cedric's Death Scene
> > Emma - Yule Ball Argument
> > Rupert - Telling Harry to "Piss Off"/ Yule Ball (its  a toss up)
> > Gleeson - DADA class
> > Rickman - not much to choose from here, but I liked when he 
> > smacked Harry and Ron around for talking in class.
> > Gambon - Ending Dormitory scene with Harry
> > Coltrane - Stabbing Flitwick with the fork
> > Matthew - "I killed Harry Potter!"  The look on his face was 
> > priceless. 

Some of Alora's choices: 
> Ron - the freak out scene when he's in the dress robes
> Gleeson - the face he makes at McG after the ferret incident!
> Coltran -  gettin' all handsy with Madame Maxine
> Matthew - Neville dancing, and being excited about coming in late!  
> Twins - Whichever one asked Angelina to the ball, can't remember.  
> Loved how he did the dancing motion.  Also, loved them heckling Ron 
> while he was dancing with McG


SSSusan:
Dan - The Cedric scene... and his "NOBODY could figure that out, it's 
totally mental" to Ron. 
Emma - Another vote for her after-the-ball encounter with Ron
Rupert - The whole dormitory scene from "How did you do it?" to "Piss 
off."
Gleeson - The look for McGonagall after the ferret incident
Rickman - The potions store cupboard scene with Harry ["DON'T lie to 
me."]
Gambon - The dormitory scene with Harry
Coltrane - His reminder to Harry that *he* would do well to comb his 
hair, too, on occasion
Matthew - When he stood up first among the boys to learn to dance
Twins - Repeating McGonagall's "bumbling babbling bunch of baboons" 
(or whatever she said ;-))  Actually, this is subject to change, 
every time I remember another twins scene.

And I'll add:  
Maggie Smith - The "decision" scene with Snape & DD, when she 
argues "To hell with Barty!"

Siriusly Snapey Susan







From artsylynda at aol.com  Tue Nov 22 15:27:46 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 10:27:46 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Rex Reed's review
Message-ID: <68.61aa6fd7.30b492f2@aol.com>

 
 
In a message dated 11/22/2005 6:41:15 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com writes:

http://www.newyorkobserver.com/culture_rexreed-2.asp

Oh my.  Who put a twist in HIS knickers???  Did he see  the same movie we 
saw???  Yes, Dan is 16 NOW, but he was 14 and 15 when he  made the film.  SHEESH, 
he doesn't do his research!  Nor does he  remember how teenagers grow in 
spurts.  Yes, Dan's legs are hairy (and was  that a wee bit on his chest in the 
bathtub scene?  Dan says he was 14 when  he did that scene and he doesn't look 
like that now, and HE "knows what to look  for" -- chest hair?  heehee.  Our 
kids are growing up!).    Of COURSE Emma has cleavage!  Sheesh, she's 15 now, 
and has had  cleavage since PoA!  argh.  And the entire audience laughed out 
loud  many, many times during the film.  Whoever Reed saw the movie with must  
have been a bunch of old fogies (and I'm nearly 56, but I'm not old fogie!)  who 
never read the books and don't enjoy fantasy films!!  argh.  He  needs to 
retire!!!   

Lynda AKA "Abraxan" who isn't opinionated at all on this  topic!

Read my Harry Potter fics here:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/





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From artsylynda at aol.com  Tue Nov 22 15:33:53 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 10:33:53 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] the deleted DD scene
Message-ID: <1eb.46958d14.30b49461@aol.com>

 
 
In a message dated 11/22/2005 6:41:15 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com writes:

SSSusan:
Hmmmm.  "Where was this scene supposed to go?" is a  good question.  
Lynda, if you're around, could you tell from the  context when you saw 
the "Making of" special at what point in the story  this would have 
come?



They were in his office, with the Pensieve cabinet  open.  That's all I know. 
 It's possible it was part of the Pensieve  scene.  It wouldn't have been 
after the GoF gave out the names - it wasn't  in the Trophy Room.   

Lynda AKA "Abraxan"

Read my Harry Potter fics here:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Tue Nov 22 15:54:12 2005
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 15:54:12 -0000
Subject: the deleted DD scene
In-Reply-To: <1eb.46958d14.30b49461@aol.com>
Message-ID: <dlvev4+frpp@eGroups.com>

SSSusan:
> Hmmmm.  "Where was this scene supposed to go?" is a  good 
> question.  Lynda, if you're around, could you tell from the  
> context when you saw the "Making of" special at what point in the 
> story  this would have come?

Lynda: 
> They were in his office, with the Pensieve cabinet open.  That's 
> all I know. It's possible it was part of the Pensieve scene.  It 
> wouldn't have been after the GoF gave out the names - it wasn't  in 
> the Trophy Room.    

SSSusan:
Thanks much, Lynda, that's very helpful.  

Let's see.  If it was just after Harry emerged from the Pensieve, 
having seen the Karkaroff testimony and realized that the man he'd 
seen in his dreams was Barty Crouch, Jr., then how would that have 
fit with the scene which didn't make it?  

I wonder what DD *did* think when Harry told him BCJ had been in his 
dream, along with Voldy & Wormtail?  DD should have believed, as the 
rest of the WW did, that BCJ was dead, but....  See? This is where 
tinkering with the storyline, to get Winky & the house elves out, and 
to shorten things, messed things up a bit.  They inserted BCJ into 
the scene Harry sees in his dream when he hadn't really been there in 
the book, so the audience would know BCJ was a DE and loyal Voldy 
follower.  (I guess otherwise it would have taken too much 
explanation to get the whole Mrs. Crouch pretended she was BCJ and it 
was SHE who was buried....) But it doesn't really FIT with what we 
readers know to be the real story.  

So, given the scenario they painted for themselves in the film, what 
WOULD DD have been thinking when Harry told him, after the pensieve, 
that he recognized BCJ as the man in his dream?  And would the scene 
Lynda described make sense after that?

On a totally unrelated matter, I was watching a "Making of" special 
on A&E last night and realized there was another scene we'd been 
given stills from and snippets of which didn't make it in: the trio 
in their jammies discussing something or other in the Gryffindor 
common room.  Wonder what that would have contained?

Siriusly Snapey Susan, scratching her head and pondering....









From artsylynda at aol.com  Tue Nov 22 15:54:44 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 10:54:44 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Best character scenes
Message-ID: <289.21f30d.30b49944@aol.com>

Sorry, I have WAY more than one fav per actor!  below. .  .

Dan: Standing up to face Voldemort; Bringing Cedric's body back; asking  Cho 
to the ball; dribbling juice; jumping away from Myrtle in the bathtub and  all 
his embarrassment at her trying to peek!  heeheehee  Oh, and him  teasing Ron 
about the "bonnet" with his dress robes, and asking the twins if  they'll 
ever let Ron live down dancing with McG, and Harry's total teenage  sports hero 
thing of being on the Gryff's shoulders and asking repeatedly if  they want him 
to open the egg.  This "confident Harry" was TOTALLY new in  many ways, and 
one I LOVED!
 
Rupert (isn't it funny how most of us, and even Dan in some interviews,  call 
him "Ron" while everyone calls Dan and Emma "Dan" and "Emma"?  I guess  
Rupert really does embody Ron even to those who know him!  LOL!)   Definitely him 
getting the dress robes; him asking Harry to murder him when he  sees the two 
of them in their robes; his resentful "piss off" comment -- really,  
everything.  Rupert really came into his own in this film, and I'm SO  relieved the 
screenwriter finally let Ron be Ron and made Hermione NOT be  "super!Hermione" and 
have so many of the boys' lines anymore!
 
Emma:  Definitely the angry scene after the ball with Ron; her cute  little 
giggle and wave at Harry when she and Viktor are coming into the ball;  there 
were others, but those are the ones I liked best.
 
Alan Rickman:  Shooting his cuffs before bopping the boys on the  head!  
heeheehee
 
Gleeson:  The ferret scene and his wink at Harry afterwords (and his  "he 
might have said something" when McG reprimanded him).  Really, the  *energy* he 
brought to the part was wonderful!  I loved his portrayal of  Mad-Eye!  I'm 
glad Mad-Eye is in OoP as well!
 
Gambon:  Ending scene with Harry.  I liked him "needing" to make  that 
comment about the curtains before he could apologize to Harry, and the  tenderness 
he showed to Harry there.
 
Coultrane:  The blissful look when he's dancing with Madam Maxime, and  gets 
in trouble for his wandering hand.  heehee
 
Matt Lewis:  "I killed Harry Potter!" and "I stayed out to midnight --  ME!" 
both were precious, as was he dancing by himself in the dorm.  I'm  glad he 
got more screen time.  I like Neville a lot!
 
ANYTHING with the twins, but Fred (?) asking Angelina was so cute, and them  
saying that phrase five times fast in the dance class was very funny, and 
their  antics around the GoF were hysterical!  Those two are so cute and funny --  
I hope they find good parts after the HP franchise runs out!
 
I loved Cedric and was surprised by how much I liked Viktor, but I didn't  
like Fleur.  She simply wasn't at all like I envisioned her.  I  expected 
butt-length platinum hair, always worn loose (we read about her "sheet"  of hair, 
and this girl simply didn't have it -- why not give her a wig or  extensions, 
for pete's sake??).  Malfoy's wig looked funny (that  wasn't  his real hair -- 
couldn't have been -- it looked too different from  his own hair).  I guess 
they were trying to make him look like his dad  (whose wig is gorgeous!)  I'm SO 
GLAD they got rid of that anonymous  strange black boy from Gryffindor who was 
in PoA!!!!  It creeped me out  that he got lines that could easily have been 
given to Dean or Seamus!  
 
I guess that's my list for now, after two viewings.  Maybe my opinion  will 
change after I see it more times, time will tell!
 
Lynda AKA "Abraxan"

Read my Harry Potter fics here:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/



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From ctmikki at sbcglobal.net  Tue Nov 22 16:09:32 2005
From: ctmikki at sbcglobal.net (Mik)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 08:09:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Rex reed
In-Reply-To: <20051121231510.33214.qmail@web30310.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20051122160932.6192.qmail@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

i sent this to him, since i couldn't bear letting him get away with his idiosyncrasies:

********************
I think you are WAY off your rocker sir.  First off, yes it's dark, hence the PG13 rating, which as a movie critic i would think you would know about, but obviously you have no clue about any part of your job.  Therefore, as if you didnt know, no one under the age of 13 should see it!!  Duh!!  Secondly, it was very easy to follow, whether you have read the books (which you obviously have not) or not.  And everyone who has seen it so far thinks it's the best of the four movies out.  And to have mainly focused on 'bulges' and 'cleavage' of underage actors is a disgusting thing on your part.  Everyone who has regrettably read your review thinks you are definitely smoking something, and should obviously choose another career, and soon.
*************************
 
 
 
too off base???
 

mik
 
 
 
 

AnitaKH <anita_hillin at yahoo.com> wrote: 
  Charme started it all with:
  > And for the love of God, you simply must read movie critic Rex  Reed's column in the New York Observer, as it is apparent that HE has  issues requiring therapy as he notices (and prints) that Dan has hairy  legs, an Adam's apple, and a "buldge in his pants"  and Emma  Watson has "cleavage." (no, these are not my words - they are his.)
  > http://www.newyorkobserver.com/culture_rexreed-2.asp
    
  Alla continued with:
  
As to this review, you know I am a great believer in the idea that 
  we could say any things positive or negative about books or movies, 
  BUT such criticism only carries any weight for me if the person 
  actually saw the movie or read the books and I have a lot of doubt 
  that this guy actually saw the movie.
  
  akh chimes in with:
  
  I finally broke down and read the review, although I find Rex Reed's  vitriol tiresome.  Once again, Rex is straining to toss witty  barbs at material he feels is beneath him.  Unfortunately, Rexie  baby, you just sound like a cranky old man.  (I'm actually  thinking of a more pejorative term, but we'll let that pass...)   It helps when the barbs are actually based on the movie in question,  too.  I read it to my office partner who asked the question we all  asked: just what movie did he see?
  
  On anther movie front, my office partner saw GOF this weekend, and  although she's surrounded by HP readers including her younger son and  her mother, they don't tell her the plot, in hopes she'll finally read  the books.  She had no trouble following it and declared the movie  "pretty wonderful."  Joan's a smart cookie, so she may not be  typical, but at least one non-reader had as good a time as us fanatics.
  
  akh, who'd better get cracking on her chapter discussion for the Other List...


            
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.  

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From sharon8880 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 22 18:56:41 2005
From: sharon8880 at yahoo.com (sharon)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:56:41 -0000
Subject: Rex reed
In-Reply-To: <20051122160932.6192.qmail@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dlvpl9+cii3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Mik <ctmikki at s...> wrote:

SNIP SNIP SNIP 
>   akh chimes in with:
>   
>   I finally broke down and read the review, although I find Rex 
Reed's  vitriol tiresome.  Once again, Rex is straining to toss witty  
barbs at material he feels is beneath him.  Unfortunately, Rexie  baby, 
you just sound like a cranky old man.

SNIP SNIP SNIP

Yeah, Rex is really old man who's always been cranky.  I remember, as a 
kid, seeing him on television alot in the 1970's during the height of 
his popularity (along with that other great Hollywood know-it-all Rona 
Barret). I think he was in his 40s back then. He always had this 
superior arrogance about him.  I didn't know he was still working.  I
thought he was either retired or dead.  He's old enough to be either, so
I would take his reviews with a grain of salt.  He's not worth the 
effort of getting distressed by his so-called review.
Sharon







From juli17 at aol.com  Tue Nov 22 22:17:54 2005
From: juli17 at aol.com (juli17 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 17:17:54 EST
Subject: Best Character Scenes
Message-ID: <232.22a0d9a.30b4f312@aol.com>

 
Sabrina wrote:


>
> I thought it would be fun to see what everyone's  favorite 
character 
> scenes were for each actor/actress.   



Yes, great idea! For me it would be:
 
Dan: Harry refusing to be pulled away from Cedric's body. I really
felt Harry's anguish. Nice going, Dan :-)
 
Rupert: Every scene! But if I have to pick one, the scene where 
Ron agreed with Fleur that he helped saved Gabrielle. The look  on
his face when she kissed him was priceless. 
 
Emma: Coming into the ball and the way Hermoine was *so* happy
she was almost giddy. I felt Emma really channeled how bookworm
Hermoine must have felt here, coming to the ball with the most 
eligible bachelor, and looking truly beautiful for the first time.  (Though
Emma is actually beautiful all the time.)
 
Matthew: When Neville comes back to the Gryffindor boys dorm 
and tells Harry he stayed out till midnight--"Me!" He's so excited
and proud ;-)
 
Gleeson: He was great all 'round, but I agree that the look he gave
McGonagall after the ferret incident was hilarious.
 
Rickman: Loved Snape pulling up his cuffs, preparing to, er, cuff
Harry  and Ron for talking again! LOL! But my favorite was probably
the scene between him and Harry at the Potions closet, because
in this scene Rickman was *Snape*, the acid-tongued, enigmatic
professor who has a strange tormentor/protector relationship with 
Harry that both would prefer didn't exist. 
 
Gambon: The final scene between Harry and Dumbledore in the
Gryffindor dorm. 
 
Maggie Smith: Nailing Ron, and making him dance first!
 
Coltrane: His reaction to Harry's "Hagrid, you combed your hair!" 
(Which I couldn't tell, BTW!)
 
The twins: Loved the scene around the Goblet, and the twin asking
the girl across the tables to the ball with hand gestures. (Though 
one gets the feeling life is just a little too easy for those two!)
 
Felton: His "My father will hear about this!" after McGongall  restores
Draco to his body. 
 
Isaacs: He doesn't have to say anything. Just that icy cold look in
his eyes, combined with that patrician face and fall of white-blond
hair. It freezes you. 
 
Fiennes: I can't point out one moment, since the final scene went so
fast (and I've only seen the movie once), but his whole demeanor as
Voldemort was spot on. 
 
Julie 
 
 
 


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From ichangeling at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 23:37:43 2005
From: ichangeling at gmail.com (Indigo Changeling)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 17:37:43 -0600
Subject: Neville and the Cruciatus Curse
Message-ID: <b1edf4000511221537j2aeb5a48n383c4e073b60db53@mail.gmail.com>

In many reviews I have read covering GOF, there has been disappointment that
we don't get an explanation of Neville's reaction to Moody using the
Cruciatus Curse on the spider. However, Harry and co, don't learn about that
until the 5th book when they are at Mungo's visiting Authur Weasley. We only
had Hermione pointing out that Neville was really disturbed, and Moody DID
take him aside after class in the book.
 Thanks to all the reviewers; I have enjoyed reading everyone's opinions.
 Indra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






From bethz1 at rcn.com  Wed Nov 23 03:18:42 2005
From: bethz1 at rcn.com (Ms. Found in a Bottle)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:18:42 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Neville and the Cruciatus Curse
In-Reply-To: <b1edf4000511221537j2aeb5a48n383c4e073b60db53@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b1edf4000511221537j2aeb5a48n383c4e073b60db53@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4383DF92.1030700@rcn.com>


Indigo Changeling wrote:

>In many reviews I have read covering GOF, there has been disappointment that
>we don't get an explanation of Neville's reaction to Moody using the
>Cruciatus Curse on the spider. However, Harry and co, don't learn about that
>until the 5th book when they are at Mungo's visiting Authur Weasley. We only
>had Hermione pointing out that Neville was really disturbed, and Moody DID
>take him aside after class in the book.
> 
>
Me:  I thought Harry knew before OOTP, but the rest of the crew found 
out at Mungo's.  I kind of remember Harry feeling bad for Neville in GOF 
and realizing that it was bad enough not to have your parents living, 
but even worse to have your parents living, but not know who you are.  I 
just reread OOTP over the summer and I'm almost positive after the group 
that goes to visit Mr. Weasley at Mungo's finds Neville and Gran 
visiting his parents, that Harry has already known about what happened 
to Neville's parents.  I thought DD told him after Harry comes out of 
the Pensieve after seeing Barty Jr. being sentenced to Azkaban.

Well, I could talk in circles all night (I have a tendency to do that), 
but I'll stop, because you guys probably have better posts to read and 
my memory could be failing me on this one.

Beth



From ichangeling at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 03:56:30 2005
From: ichangeling at gmail.com (Indigo Changeling)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 21:56:30 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Neville and the Cruciatus Curse
In-Reply-To: <4383DF92.1030700@rcn.com>
References: <b1edf4000511221537j2aeb5a48n383c4e073b60db53@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4383DF92.1030700@rcn.com>
Message-ID: <b1edf4000511221956u2d52798md48bd967e5c371f6@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Beth wrote:
> visiting his parents, that Harry has already known about what happened
> to Neville's parents.  I thought DD told him after Harry comes out of
> the Pensieve after seeing Barty Jr. being sentenced to Azkaban.
>
> Well, I could talk in circles all night (I have a tendency to do that),
> but I'll stop, because you guys probably have better posts to read and
> my memory could be failing me on this one.
>
> No, your absolutely right.  I was wrong.  Guess I should have double
checked, how embarasing!
Still, I don't think it was necessary to show that in the movie as some have
argued.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 23 05:27:42 2005
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora67)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 05:27:42 -0000
Subject: Fred & George singing
Message-ID: <dm0uke+psnd@eGroups.com>

Anyone know what song that was the twins/Harry were singing in the 
test after the QWC?  The "my heart beats for you" one?  Is that a real 
song, or one just for the movie?  Thanks! :)

Alora 






From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 23 05:41:41 2005
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora67)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 05:41:41 -0000
Subject: Fred & George singing
In-Reply-To: <dm0uke+psnd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dm0vel+m3gf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "alora67" <chrisnlorrie at y...> 
wrote:
>
> Anyone know what song that was the twins/Harry were singing in the 
> test after the QWC?  The "my heart beats for you" one?  Is that a 
real 
> song, or one just for the movie?  Thanks! :)
> 
> Alora




*sigh*  Misspell!  I meant to say in the "TENTS" after QWC!  It's 
close to midnight and I am tired.  Sorry!

Alora :)








From eggplant107 at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 23 06:49:29 2005
From: eggplant107 at hotmail.com (eggplant107)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 06:49:29 -0000
Subject: Movie length
Message-ID: <dm13dp+il5g@eGroups.com>

Like most Potter fans I wish the Goblet movie was longer and they'd
cut out less stuff from the book, but I still enjoyed it, I enjoyed it
a lot, and I think it's only justice to show the movie makers some
mercy. Goblet is already the most expensive movie ever made, if it
were any longer it would cost more than the Gross National Product of
Brazil.

But there is a way to slip another 10 minutes of story into a movie
without making it any longer, just make the closing credits flash by
in 20 seconds. True, at that speed you couldn't read anything, but
nobody is watching anyway; by the time the credits stop most patrons
have exited the theater, walked to their car, started the engine and
are half way home. I mean, look at some old movies, even some very
very good old movies, the closing credits aren't longer than 20
seconds. Why was it necessary for things change? If you have a burning
desire to know who the third assistant caterer for the second unit was
you can always look it up on the web.

Eggplant
 
 









From rdas at facstaff.wisc.edu  Wed Nov 23 12:55:53 2005
From: rdas at facstaff.wisc.edu (susanbones2003)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:55:53 -0000
Subject: Rex Reed article
In-Reply-To: <050c01c5eede$403f5550$6701a8c0@MITRE.ORG>
Message-ID: <dm1osp+6e0g@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Charme" <dontask2much at y...> 
wrote:
>
> Charme now:
> 
> Hi alora! You're absolutely correct it was harsh - and obviously 
the windbag 
> never read the books. Some things I just don't think you're going 
to *get* 
> if you don't, know what I mean? :)  What bothered me most is his 
description 
> of Daniel Radcliffe - I had to read it twice, then again out loud 
to my 
> significant other to make sure my astonishment was warranted. Rex 
Reed 
> usually doesn't get so...sooo...detailed about someone's 
appearance that 


Charme,
I was very troubled by Rex Reed's description of Daniel Radcliffe. 
Is nothing beyond the pale? His words were disgusting,ignorant, 
crude not to mention totally inappropriate. This is a kid we are 
talking about! I wouldn't even know how to respond except that I 
will never read anything that vile old crank ever writes again. Same 
with Emma! She looked like a fairy princess, sweet and innocent and 
beautiful. Why must someone who doesn't even care about Harry Potter 
put his two completely worthless cents in?
I feel better now.
JenD






From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Wed Nov 23 13:12:49 2005
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:12:49 -0000
Subject: Movie length
In-Reply-To: <dm13dp+il5g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dm1psh+cr0p@eGroups.com>

eggplant107 wrote:
> But there is a way to slip another 10 minutes of story into a movie
> without making it any longer, just make the closing credits flash by
> in 20 seconds. True, at that speed you couldn't read anything, but
> nobody is watching anyway; by the time the credits stop most patrons
> have exited the theater, walked to their car, started the engine and
> are half way home. I mean, look at some old movies, even some very
> very good old movies, the closing credits aren't longer than 20
> seconds. Why was it necessary for things change? If you have a burning
> desire to know who the third assistant caterer for the second unit was
> you can always look it up on the web.


SSSusan:
Hee.  I'm not sure what you'll think of my family when I admit this, 
Eggplant, but we often sit through the closing credits. ;-)  I'm often 
interested in seeing not just who played whom but the 
music/soundtrack/who sang that? info.  

And with two of the previous HPs, there were little "bonuses" for those 
fans who waited:

1) At the end of the CoS credits, there was a bonus clip of a 
bewildered-looking Gilderoy Lockhart in a bookstore window;
2) The entire closing credits for PoA took place "on" the Marauders' 
Map, and there were all kinds of fun things to see -- rooms identified 
on the map, places where the footprints changed to bare feet or 
pawprints.  Then at the very end, you hear Dan saying, "Mischief 
managed. Nox." and the lights go out.

We're probably just weird, but we get a kick out of that kind of 
thing. ;-)

We did stay for all of the credits on our first viewing of GoF, but 
alas, the only fun thing to see what a line near the end stating "No 
dragons were harmed in the filming of this movie."  

So in this case, yeah, speed 'em up and give us more!

Siriusly Snapey Susan







From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 23 14:35:11 2005
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora67)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 14:35:11 -0000
Subject: Movie length
In-Reply-To: <dm13dp+il5g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dm1umv+dd2d@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "eggplant107" <eggplant107 at h...> 
wrote:
>
> Like most Potter fans I wish the Goblet movie was longer and they'd
> cut out less stuff from the book, but I still enjoyed it, I 
enjoyed it
> a lot, and I think it's only justice to show the movie makers some
> mercy. Goblet is already the most expensive movie ever made, if it
> were any longer it would cost more than the Gross National Product 
of
> Brazil.
> 
> But there is a way to slip another 10 minutes of story into a movie
> without making it any longer, just make the closing credits flash 
by
> in 20 seconds. True, at that speed you couldn't read anything, but
> nobody is watching anyway; by the time the credits stop most 
patrons
> have exited the theater, walked to their car, started the engine 
and
> are half way home. I mean, look at some old movies, even some very
> very good old movies, the closing credits aren't longer than 20
> seconds. Why was it necessary for things change? If you have a 
burning
> desire to know who the third assistant caterer for the second unit 
was
> you can always look it up on the web.
> 
> Eggplant
>


Here's another credit freak over here, raising her hand.  :D

I love to watch credits, but I did have to get up and leave toward 
the end of GoF.  My bottom was just too numb.  I do like knowing all 
the music info, as the other poster stated, the who sang that?  
stuff.  I don't know why, but I like it.  Could they have sped them 
up and done the hospital scene instead?  Oh, yeah, I would have 
loved that.  Very much so.  I'm just hoping there's some good 
deleted scenes when I get my DVD. ;)  Speaking of DVD, I wish there 
was a way we could integrate cut/deleted scenes into the movie 
instead of having to watch them separately.  With all the technology 
available to work with, you would think they would give us the 
option to do that. 

Alora 






From swartell at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 23 14:39:33 2005
From: swartell at yahoo.com (Sue Wartell)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 06:39:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Movie length
In-Reply-To: <dm1psh+cr0p@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051123143933.9239.qmail@web53209.mail.yahoo.com>



--- cubfanbudwoman <susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> eggplant107 wrote:
> > But there is a way to slip another 10 minutes of
> story into a movie
> > without making it any longer, just make the
> closing credits flash by
> > in 20 seconds. True, at that speed you couldn't
> read anything, but
> > nobody is watching anyway
>
>
> SSSusan:
> Hee.  I'm not sure what you'll think of my family
> when I admit this, 
> Eggplant, but we often sit through the closing
> credits. ;-)  

now Sue:

We do too.  There are usually one or two other people
left, as well.  I too look for the music credits, and
for the little odd bits that get stuck in.  I also
enjoy seeing how international all of these
enterprises are.  (I know - seriously weird! - but I'm
harmless.)  Our son is particularly interested in
movie production, and so he actually wants to read all
the extra stuff.

And the Marauder's Map at the end of PoA was
absolutely wonderful - I have the DVD and have
actually watched it several times.


	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com



From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 23 15:18:05 2005
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora67)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:18:05 -0000
Subject: Movie length
In-Reply-To: <20051123143933.9239.qmail@web53209.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dm217d+9nq3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Sue Wartell <swartell at y...> 
wrote:

> now Sue:
> 
> We do too.  There are usually one or two other people
> left, as well.  I too look for the music credits, and
> for the little odd bits that get stuck in.  I also
> enjoy seeing how international all of these
> enterprises are.  (I know - seriously weird! - but I'm
> harmless.)  Our son is particularly interested in
> movie production, and so he actually wants to read all
> the extra stuff.
> 
> And the Marauder's Map at the end of PoA was
> absolutely wonderful - I have the DVD and have
> actually watched it several times.


Don't you love it when you see several people in the area 
marked "dungbombs"  and then they suddenly scatter?  I love that 
one.  

Alora 
> 
> 
> 	
> 		
> __________________________________ 
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>







From tmarends at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 23 15:20:59 2005
From: tmarends at yahoo.com (Tim)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:20:59 -0000
Subject: Movie length
In-Reply-To: <dm13dp+il5g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dm21cr+ttvl@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "eggplant107" <eggplant107 at h...> 
wrote:
>
> > 
> But there is a way to slip another 10 minutes of story into a movie
> without making it any longer, just make the closing credits flash by
> in 20 seconds. True, at that speed you couldn't read anything, but
> nobody is watching anyway; by the time the credits stop most patrons
> have exited the theater, walked to their car, started the engine and
> are half way home. I mean, look at some old movies, even some very
> very good old movies, the closing credits aren't longer than 20
> seconds. Why was it necessary for things change? If you have a burning
> desire to know who the third assistant caterer for the second unit was
> you can always look it up on the web.
> 
> Eggplant
>

If you watch old movies, like I do, then you'll notice that most of the 
credits are actually at the beginning of the films.  I think Star Wars 
was one of the early films that got straight to the story and put all 
the credits at the end.  Films have been doing that now for the better 
part of 30 years.

Tim A






From artsylynda at aol.com  Wed Nov 23 15:47:06 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:47:06 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Rex Reed
Message-ID: <27b.35fbc0.30b5e8fa@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 11/23/2005 8:02:15 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com writes:


i  sent this to him, since i couldn't bear letting him get away with his  
idiosyncrasies:

********************
I think you are WAY off your  rocker sir.  First off, yes it's dark, hence 
the PG13 rating, which as a  movie critic i would think you would know about, 
but obviously you have no  clue about any part of your job.  Therefore, as if 
you didnt know, no one  under the age of 13 should see it!!  Duh!!  Secondly, it 
was very  easy to follow, whether you have read the books (which you 
obviously have not)  or not.  And everyone who has seen it so far thinks it's the best 
of the  four movies out.  And to have mainly focused on 'bulges' and 
'cleavage'  of underage actors is a disgusting thing on your part.  Everyone who has  
regrettably read your review thinks you are definitely smoking something, and  
should obviously choose another career, and  soon.
*************************



too off  base???


mik



Oh well done!  I'm glad you did that!  I was too angry to  look for a link to 
write to him.  I'll have to have another go at  that.  He needs to hear from 
LOTS of us!  

Lynda AKA "Abraxan"

Read my Harry Potter fics here:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From new_grange at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 23 15:02:01 2005
From: new_grange at yahoo.com (JaC)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 07:02:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Movie length
In-Reply-To: <20051123143933.9239.qmail@web53209.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20051123150201.46109.qmail@web33107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


> > eggplant107 wrote:
> > > But there is a way to slip another 10 minutes of
> > story into a movie

> > > nobody is watching anyway

> > SSSusan:
> > Hee.  I'm not sure what you'll think of my family
> > when I admit this,  Eggplant, but we often sit through the 
> >closing credits. ;-)  
> 
> now Sue:

> We do too.  There are usually one or two other people

I'd be one of those other people. If you leave before the credits finish you
miss things like the note that "No dragons were harmed during the making of
this film" or sometimes a tag scene like the one in Ferris Bueller or more
importantly Young Sherlock Holmes. Or in both of the Chris Columbus HP films. 

JaC 

Think where man's glory most begins and ends, and say my glory was I had such friends.  W.B. Yeats


	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com





From laurenmcoakley at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 23 18:00:42 2005
From: laurenmcoakley at yahoo.com (laurenmcoakley)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 18:00:42 -0000
Subject: Best Character Scenes
In-Reply-To: <232.22a0d9a.30b4f312@aol.com>
Message-ID: <dm2aoa+ld7l@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, juli17 at a... wrote:
>
>  
> Sabrina wrote:
> 
> 
> >
> > I thought it would be fun to see what everyone's  favorite 
> character 
> > scenes were for each actor/actress.   
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, great idea! For me it would be:
>  
> Dan: Harry refusing to be pulled away from Cedric's body. I really
> felt Harry's anguish. Nice going, Dan :-)
>  
> Rupert: Every scene! But if I have to pick one, the scene where 
> Ron agreed with Fleur that he helped saved Gabrielle. The look  on
> his face when she kissed him was priceless. 
>  
> Emma: Coming into the ball and the way Hermoine was *so* happy
> she was almost giddy. I felt Emma really channeled how bookworm
> Hermoine must have felt here, coming to the ball with the most 
> eligible bachelor, and looking truly beautiful for the first 
time.  (Though
> Emma is actually beautiful all the time.)
>  
> Matthew: When Neville comes back to the Gryffindor boys dorm 
> and tells Harry he stayed out till midnight--"Me!" He's so excited
> and proud ;-)
>  
> Gleeson: He was great all 'round, but I agree that the look he gave
> McGonagall after the ferret incident was hilarious.
>  
> Rickman: Loved Snape pulling up his cuffs, preparing to, er, cuff
> Harry  and Ron for talking again! LOL! But my favorite was probably
> the scene between him and Harry at the Potions closet, because
> in this scene Rickman was *Snape*, the acid-tongued, enigmatic
> professor who has a strange tormentor/protector relationship with 
> Harry that both would prefer didn't exist. 
>  
> Gambon: The final scene between Harry and Dumbledore in the
> Gryffindor dorm. 
>  
> Maggie Smith: Nailing Ron, and making him dance first!
>  
> Coltrane: His reaction to Harry's "Hagrid, you combed your hair!" 
> (Which I couldn't tell, BTW!)
>  
> The twins: Loved the scene around the Goblet, and the twin asking
> the girl across the tables to the ball with hand gestures. (Though 
> one gets the feeling life is just a little too easy for those two!)
>  
> Felton: His "My father will hear about this!" after McGongall  
restores
> Draco to his body. 
>  
> Isaacs: He doesn't have to say anything. Just that icy cold look in
> his eyes, combined with that patrician face and fall of white-blond
> hair. It freezes you. 
>  
> Fiennes: I can't point out one moment, since the final scene went 
so
> fast (and I've only seen the movie once), but his whole demeanor as
> Voldemort was spot on. 
>  
> Julie 
>  
>  

My personal favorites have already been mentioned (some a few 
times!)  But one I really loved was when the boys were in the tent 
after the Quidditch World Cup, singing and laughing at Ron.  It gave 
me the same great feeling as that scene in POA where the boys are 
hanging out in their rooms, eating those candies that let them make 
animals noises.  Sooo cute!

Great job to Dan, Rupert and Emma- the trio really outperformed 
themselves this time!  Of course though, now I have high hopes for 
the next installment!

And the twins- EVERY scene they were in was my favorite!  They are 
my favorite characters in the books and I was so happy to see them 
shine out a bit as well!







From juli17 at aol.com  Wed Nov 23 18:15:47 2005
From: juli17 at aol.com (juli17 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:15:47 EST
Subject: Rex Reed article
Message-ID: <27c.3a957a.30b60bd3@aol.com>

 


Jen wrote: 
I was very troubled by Rex Reed's description of  Daniel Radcliffe. 
Is nothing beyond the pale? His words were  disgusting,ignorant, 
crude not to mention totally inappropriate. This is a  kid we are 
talking about! I wouldn't even know how to respond except that I  
will never read anything that vile old crank ever writes again. Same  
with Emma! She looked like a fairy princess, sweet and innocent and  
beautiful. Why must someone who doesn't even care about Harry Potter 
put  his two completely worthless cents in?
I feel better  now.
JenD





Julie:
When it comes to Rex Reed and his movie reviews the key word
for me is "worthless." I've never thought much of him, I don't read
his reviews, and even when I read his comments somewhere in
passing (like on this list) they just pass right by me. 
 
Now, if a reviewer I respect as someone who reasonably understands
movies had very negative things to say--Roger Ebert, for instance--
then I might give it a second thought. (OTOH, if Roger Ebert focused
on the bulge in Dan's pants, I'd figure he'd slipped into serious  mental
illness and could only hope for immediate hospitalization  and eventual
recovery!)
 
But Rex Reed? I don't care enough to even be offended. The man's
just not worth the words that have already been expended on him
here. 
 
IMO,
Julie  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From sgarfio at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 23 20:14:53 2005
From: sgarfio at yahoo.com (Sherry Garfio)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:14:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Movie length
In-Reply-To: <dm21cr+ttvl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20051123201453.43124.qmail@web53209.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Tim <tmarends at yahoo.com> wrote:

> If you watch old movies, like I do, then you'll notice that 
> most of the credits are actually at the beginning of the 
> films.  I think Star Wars was one of the early films that got 
> straight to the story and put all the credits at the end.  
> Films have been doing that now for the better part of 30 years.

I actually heard that Lucas got in big trouble with the guilds for not doing
opening credits on Star Wars.  It must not have fazed him, though, since he
continued to do it with the rest of the SW films, and now it's the norm.  I
like the new way.  Whenever I watch an old film that has several minutes of
credits before the film starts (except of course Monty Python and the Holy
Grail - those are hilarious), it just seems wrong.  A lot of films now call out
the director, producer, and main actors while the opening action is going on,
and that's fine too.

I watch the PoA credits every time I watch my DVD.  There's also a couple
dancing, a cat chasing the owls in the owlery, and somebody tapping their foot
to the music!  I like the fact that they had the main people's credits in GoF
on slips of smouldering paper, but we all had to pee too bad to stay and watch
the rest of the credits ;-).

Sherry Garfio


"Differences of habit and language are nothing at all if our aims are identical and our hearts are open."
    -- Albus Dumbledore, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire





		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com



From gardengirlgarden at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 23 20:18:59 2005
From: gardengirlgarden at yahoo.com (Michelle Chandler)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:18:59 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Movie length
References: <20051123150201.46109.qmail@web33107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00fa01c5f06b$2402b010$660aa8c0@GARDENROOM>

Let's also remember the end of the Muppet Movie when Animal shouted "GO HOME! GO HOME!" I loved that.

Michelle

"He who follows truth too closely at the heels might get kicked in the teeth."
-Sir Walter Ralegh 1552-1618
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JaC 

  I'd be one of those other people. If you leave before the credits finish you
  miss things like the note that "No dragons were harmed during the making of
  this film" or sometimes a tag scene like the one in Ferris Bueller or more
  importantly Young Sherlock Holmes. Or in both of the Chris Columbus HP films. 

  JaC 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From sgarfio at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 23 20:31:08 2005
From: sgarfio at yahoo.com (Sherry Garfio)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:31:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Neville and the Cruciatus Curse
In-Reply-To: <b1edf4000511221956u2d52798md48bd967e5c371f6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051123203109.37921.qmail@web53212.mail.yahoo.com>

Beth wrote:
> visiting his parents, that Harry has already known about what 
> happened to Neville's parents.  I thought DD told him after 
> Harry comes out of the Pensieve after seeing Barty Jr. being 
> sentenced to Azkaban.

Indigo replied:
> No, your absolutely right.  I was wrong.  Guess I should have 
> double checked, how embarasing!
> Still, I don't think it was necessary to show that in the movie 
> as some have argued.

Yes, Beth is correct, DD told Harry in the book GoF, and Harry agonized over it
but kept the information to himself until the St Mungo's scene in OotP.  But
they do address it in the film if you are paying close attention.  In the
Pensieve scene, Karkaroff's last piece of info to try to get himself released
is that he knows who tortured the Auror Frank Longbottom and his wife.  There
is lots of information thrown out there very quickly, and most of it has to be
put together with other pieces of information from various parts of the movie
to make sense.

Also, somebody asked about the motivation for Crouch Sr's murder in the film. 
The second time I watched the film, I saw Moody flick out his tongue after
telling Crouch that "The last boy who went into the Department of Mysteries
never came out" or words to that effect, and then Crouch Sr gets this weird
look of recognition on his face.  That's why Jr killed him, because he
recognized that Moody is really Jr.  This is a bit confusing for those of us
who have read the book, since Crouch Sr already knows a lot more in the book
(like the fact that Jr is neither dead nor in Azkaban), and he is killed
because he's starting to throw off the Imperious Curse and might reveal
everything, not because he discovers any new information.  In the film, Jr
isn't believed to be dead, and Sr hasn't been hiding him.  Everybody, including
Sr, believes he's in Azkaban.

Sherry Garfio


"Differences of habit and language are nothing at all if our aims are identical and our hearts are open."
    -- Albus Dumbledore, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire





		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com



From eggplant107 at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 23 21:54:41 2005
From: eggplant107 at hotmail.com (eggplant107)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:54:41 -0000
Subject: Rex Reed article.
In-Reply-To: <27c.3a957a.30b60bd3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <dm2of1+hje8@eGroups.com>

I've seen Rex Reed and he is an EXTREALY effeminate man, I'm talking
about the elephant in the living room, you just can't ignore it. I
hope I don't come off sounding like a bigot but to hear a 66 year old
mincing queen like Rex Reed talk about the bulge in a 14 year old
boy's pants creped me out a little. 

Eggplant  







From eggplant107 at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 23 22:28:25 2005
From: eggplant107 at hotmail.com (eggplant107)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:28:25 -0000
Subject: Movie length
In-Reply-To: <00fa01c5f06b$2402b010$660aa8c0@GARDENROOM>
Message-ID: <dm2qe9+6jgu@eGroups.com>

Ok you convinced me, some people (a tiny minority I think you will
agree) like credits, but let me ask a question of the credits fans:
If you had to choose between credits and a extra 10 minutes of story,
enough time to reactivate an entire subplot that you would otherwise
never see, what would you chose? And remember you can always find out
all there is to know about a movie on the web.

  Eggplant  








From nicholas at adelanta.co.uk  Tue Nov 22 23:08:39 2005
From: nicholas at adelanta.co.uk (nicholas dean)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 23:08:39 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Movie length
In-Reply-To: <20051123150201.46109.qmail@web33107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051123150201.46109.qmail@web33107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06110402bfa94aa57b33@[217.154.255.24]>

Talking about credit-watching, JaC said:-

>I'd be one of those other people. If you leave before the credits finish you
>miss things like the note that "No dragons were harmed during the making of
>this film" or sometimes a tag scene like the one in Ferris Bueller or more
>importantly Young Sherlock Holmes. Or in both of the Chris Columbus HP films.
>

Or 'Pirates of the Caribbean', where the post-credit scenelet paves 
the way for the next movie...

Cheers,
Nicholas
who enjoyed the PoA credits, not just for the visuals, but also for 
Williams's really excellent music, heard here in full where there 
were just snippets in the movie itself.



From kerstin8555 at yahoo.de  Thu Nov 24 08:13:16 2005
From: kerstin8555 at yahoo.de (kerstin8555)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 08:13:16 -0000
Subject: GOF
Message-ID: <dm3sms+4n5u@eGroups.com>

What I really want to have is an extended version of GOF on DVD.
I miss the magic(like movie 1 and 2) in this film.

Have a nice day.
Kerstin









From dianasdolls at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 24 09:38:18 2005
From: dianasdolls at yahoo.com (Diana)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 09:38:18 -0000
Subject: Saw it a second time tonight
Message-ID: <dm41ma+7hqs@eGroups.com>

I saw GoF a second time tonight (with Sherry from this list) and 
liked it even more the second time!  I'd already gotten over 
my "but, where's the scene where...." moments and I'd put the 
mangling of the Barty Jr./Barty Sr. subplot behind me so I could 
enjoy the movie for what it it did contain.

The dragon scene was just terrific, again.  Ralph Fiennes' Voldemort 
was a much better fit on this viewing, especially since I wasn't 
sitting only three rows from the screen like during the first 
viewing.  

Voldemort telling Harry that he was 'merciful' because he was going 
to make Harry beg for death and then he'd grant his wish was 
chilling.  Harry, flat on his back on the ground at Voldie's feet 
during this scene, barely whispering 'no, no' while shaking his head 
was horrifying.  Seeing these scenes struck me again how absolutely 
awful Harry's ordeal was at the end of GoF.  No wonder the poor 
kid's still having frequent nightmares about it as OotP starts. 
<shudder>  Powerful scenes.  Voldemort didn't seem as jumpy this 
time, which helped the scenes as well. 

After posting my confusion with Hermione's line reading 
of "Everything's going to change now, isn't it?" earlier on the 
list, and then reading all the replies about it, I paid close 
attention to her face this time when she said it and to Harry's 
reaction to her.  This time I saw the sort-of wince on her face and 
her serious demeanor when she said it.  Harry's reaction was 
just...perfect.  It was so matter-of-fact and showed great strength 
of will and acceptance that are hints of the Harry to come in HBP.  

My favorite movie so far, though I still love CoS as a very close 
second.  I'll be seeing it a third time this Sunday and a fourth 
time in IMAX sometime the following weekend.  I hope I'll be able to 
see this in IMAX at least twice before it leaves theaters.  

Diana L.








From tripchick at rogers.com  Thu Nov 24 12:41:31 2005
From: tripchick at rogers.com (TripChick)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 07:41:31 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] movie length
In-Reply-To: <1132834668.476.56316.m16@yahoogroups.com>
References: <1132834668.476.56316.m16@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <6BBF2EA8-4CA6-45BC-A15D-28AE91F1A50B@rogers.com>


On Nov 24, 2005, at 7:17 AM, HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com wrote:

> If you watch old movies, like I do, then you'll notice that most of  
> the
> credits are actually at the beginning of the films.  I think Star Wars
> was one of the early films that got straight to the story and put all
> the credits at the end.  Films have been doing that now for the better
> part of 30 years.
>
> Tim A


While I don't remember all the exact particulars about that, it was  
Star Wars and several other movies in 1977 that started this (I think  
Apocalypse Now was another one). What happened was that Lucas didn't  
want all the 'directed by', 'written by', 'produced by' stuff right  
at the beginning of the movie. He felt it would interrupt the flow of  
the story. (Apparently, according to the various unions involved,  
certain credits are supposed to be shown before the movie, and in a  
particular order) The Directors Guild of America wouldn't allow him  
to have "Starring<Hamill, Fisher, Ford, etc>" pre-movie unless  
"Directed by" was also included. Lucas, in order to get his way, just  
decided to nix it all, leaving only the studio credit and the movie  
title in the beginning. And Coppola even one-upped Lucas by leaving  
ALL the credits off the celluloid in the original run of Apocalypse- 
the credits were all printed out in a booklet you received when you  
entered the theatre.

Frankly, I prefer the credits afterwards. Answers my questions better  
when I know what to look for ("Who wrote that song? Who played the  
little boy?" etc)

tc



From louisemccabe88 at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 24 15:02:39 2005
From: louisemccabe88 at hotmail.com (louisemccabe88)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 15:02:39 -0000
Subject: Voldemort
Message-ID: <dm4kmf+obbt@eGroups.com>

Not sure how much you have discussed he who must not be named in GOF 
but I thought he was fantastic.  It was one of the things I was most 
looking forward to, seeing how they portrayed him.  He was much 
scarier than I was expecting and stronger.  I was worried he would 
turn out as some sort of cartoon villian but this just didn't happen.

Also wanted to agree with those of you who were saying how good 
Ron/Rupert was.  I thought he was just the best person on screen 
throughout.

I saw GOF on IMAX and would recommend it.  The dragon chase is amazing.

Lou








From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 24 15:37:34 2005
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora67)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 15:37:34 -0000
Subject: Ginny's dress
Message-ID: <dm4mnu+b8d1@eGroups.com>

Did anyone else notice how simple Ginny's dress was compared to 
everyone else's?  I think she looked precious in it, and it suited 
her, and I thought maybe they were trying to remind us that the 
Weasley's don't have a lot of money.  It looked like a doll dress :).

Happy Thanksgiving, all!

Alora 






From sherriola at earthlink.net  Thu Nov 24 16:51:25 2005
From: sherriola at earthlink.net (Sherry Gomes)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 08:51:25 -0800
Subject: my GOF impressions
In-Reply-To: <dm41ma+7hqs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001501c5f117$4f71d850$0400a8c0@pensive>

Well, i've finally seen the movie!  Thanks so much to Diana, who responded
to my "Aren't there in HP fans in the Seattle area?" and volunteered to go
with me and be my movie describer.  Great job, Diana!  I didn't miss a
thing.  

Now for my movie impressions.

Well, first of all WOW!  I agree with all who said that it is the best of
the four.  It seemed like the perfect blend of making things more
interesting for a movie, visually, and keeping true to the spirit of the
story.  I was quite blown away and hope to be able to go again.  I won't
need description a second time.

Here are some likes and dislikes in no particular order.

Dan was wonderful!  Especially in the graveyard and returning with Cedric's
body.  His emotion when he proclaimed that Voldemort is back and his sobbing
was realistic and very moving.  What a difference from that horrible crying
episode in the last movie.  I just loved him all the way through.  I agree,
love the, I love magic, line.

Rupert again, he is just excellent.  I've always thought he was the best
natural actor of the trio, and he still was, though Dan's performance due to
the emotional things he was dealing with was the best overall.  But Rupert
is just natural on the screen.  His lines never sound forced.

Emma seemed over the top in everything.  It seemed that every single line of
dialog she had was a pronouncement and melodramatic.  But she wasn't super
girl this time and I'm very grateful for that.  I wish I could have seen her
all dressed up for the ball.

I have a lot of mixed feeling about Gambon's portrayal of Dumbledore in this
film.  Most of the time, I really dislike him.  Perhaps it is that his voice
is very nasally.  There were times in the first half or so of the movie in
which he seemed to be almost slurring his words as well, running them all
together with not much emotion.  But from the time, Harry returns with
Cedric, he was great!  Loved his anger and grief and the dorm scene with
Harry.

I didn't like the changes in how Harry learned about the dragons.  If Ron
knew about the dragons in advance, then it kind of diminished the impact
when he sees that Harry has to face dragons in the first task.  That's when
he realizes someone is out to get Harry killed and gets over his anger.  The
movie way made it seem like Ron knew there were dragons but was still mad
enough not to end the fight.  I don't know; it just didn't work as well for
me as the way it happens in the book.  But I did love Hermione's uttering
Boys! When they stop fighting.  Beautiful.

The first task.  I can imagine it was great visually.  But it seemed that
through the whole thing Harry was just trying to stay out of reach of the
dragon.  Well, of course, but I didn't get the sense that getting his
broomstick gave him that sense of confidence that he has in the book, when
he gets on his Firebolt.  He didn't become the one on the offensive in the
movie; he was just still trying to stay away.  It took an accident to the
dragon--if I understood the scene correctly--for Harry to be able to
succeed, instead of his own skill and cunning.

Will I get a howler if I say I still wish they'd eliminated the Yule ball
and kept the hospital scene?  I suppose that for a film, the ball was fun,
but even though I'm somewhat of a hopeless romantic, it doesn't really add
to the story.  If they had to cut things for the movie, getting rid of SPEW
was a blessed cut.  But I'd have rather had the hospital with Molly and
Sirius, Snape and fudge and the whole mood it sets up for the next
book/movie.  However, having said that, Hermione was wonderful in that
scene.  Well, both she and Ron.  They really got that right.

Ah the graveyard scene!  Fabulous.  Voldemort's return was great.  Ralph
Fiennes--spelling?--really nailed that.  I really felt the fear as he
returned.  He did a great evil Voldemort in the really only terrifying
Voldemort scenes we seem to have in the series.  Harry's fear and pain were
great.  I mean, how Dan played it!  Loved the wands linking and the echoes
of the dead.  I began to cry when James spoke to Harry.  Harry hasn't had
his dad knocked off the pedestal yet, and it was very touching to hear James
telling him what to do.  I'm partial to fathers anyway, having been raised
by mine.  I really, really liked that moment, in spite of the fear.

Ok, here's what I missed.  How did Dumbledore know moody wasn't Moody?  In
the book, he tells Harry to stay there, and doesn't let Fudge send him up to
the school.  This is after the return from the graveyard with Cedric's body.
He tells Harry later that the real moody would never have disobeyed that
order and taken him away, and that's how he knew the truth.  But how did he
know in the movie? 

Loved Snape and Harry in the scene with the Veritaserum!  I thought that was
one of the best Snape scenes in any of the films.  The whole sneering way he
spoke to Harry, the way he talks about his hand just slipping with Harry's
pumpkin juice.  It was just Snape.  Was there ever a better job of casting
than Alan Rickman as Snape?

Loved Neville in this movie.  The twins were great as ever.  not much
Draco--no loss really.

Moody was fantastic!  Oh wow, what a great job he did in that role.  What
can I say?  It was just great.

I didn't like Crouch senior.  He seemed too fumbling and wimpy.  I could see
it if they'd followed the book story line more on that and he'd gradually
gone from tough to fumbling, but it just felt off this way.  The Crouches
story line didn't make a lot of sense to me even yet.  Also, it sure seemed
like the outcome was being telegraphed all along.  If anyone who didn't know
the story hadn't figured out about poly juice potion by the end, I don't
know what they were doing.  The clues were so big they could knock you out
if they hit you over the head.  All the talk of poly juice; the constant
showing of Moody drinking from his flask.  Maybe it's just because I knew
what was going on, but I still felt that anyone paying attention to the
clues would have guessed it way before the end.  Well, I guessed the ending
of the movie the Sixth Sense long before the end too.  Do you think the fact
that I'm not distracted by the visual stuff makes me pick up on clues like
that?  Did anyone go with someone who hadn't read the book, and did they
figure it out in advance?

I did not like the ending.  Of course, I've read all the comments here.  But
Emma actually sounded like she was trying not to laugh as she gave her line
about everything changing.  It really felt off, too positive and happy
almost.  None of the sense of impending trouble.  Maybe that needs a second
viewing, but it didn't work for me at all.

So, those are my instant impressions, anyway.  Again, thank you Diana, for
going with me and being such a great describing person!  In spite of knowing
the story so well, this movie is all about visuals, and it would have been
hard to follow the first time without someone to watch it with me.  I can't
wait to get this one on DVD and expect it to become one of those movies I
watch repeatedly!

Love, love, love it!

Sherry





From ladypensieve at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 24 18:23:51 2005
From: ladypensieve at yahoo.com (Kathy)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 18:23:51 -0000
Subject: my GOF impressions
In-Reply-To: <001501c5f117$4f71d850$0400a8c0@pensive>
Message-ID: <dm50fn+e2vn@eGroups.com>


Sherry:

Agree that Dan was wonderful! 
Agree that Rupert is just excellent.  My opinion is that Harry has 
to be so unemotional most of the time that Ron makes up for all of 
that.  Does anyone realize how difficult it had to be for Ron to go 
into the forbidden forest and face his worse fear ? spiders
and not 
just any spiders, but huge beasts capable of lifting him off the 
ground?  That's courage. Harry had lived with spiders most of his 
life in the cupboard under the stairs...not to mention all the rest 
of the abuse.
 
I didn't think that Emma seemed over the top in everything. Some of 
the silent moments were wonderful.  Peeking out to see who was at 
the bottom of the staircase, then making her appearance and walking 
down so regally.  Her little wave at Harry, then looking down and 
slowly up as Krum offered his arm.  Hermione's face glowed as she 
accepted his arm and walked her to the ball. She was just precious.

Totally agree with Gamon's portrayal of Dumbledore. He's just not my 
Dumbledore, then again, Gary Oldman is just not my Sirius.  Have to 
say that David Thewlis wasn't what I imagined for Lupin, nor Gleason 
for Moody...but those actors won me over.  Not so with Oldman.  Want 
to talk whiney?  Ew!

I think the idea about Ron keeping up the pretense of hating Harry 
was okay.  The movie Ron couldn't just run up and tell Harry ? first 
because his brother would kill him,and second because his pride was 
still bruised. Harry had called him some kind of a git as well.  

Agree about the first task.  Yes, it was great visually, only they 
never really showed what happened to the dragon.  It fell?  Where 
did it go?  Why couldn't it fly away?  What happened? Big lead in to 
a non-climactic ending of the dragon fight.

No howler, but I understand why you wanted to keep the scene in the 
hospital with Mrs. Weasley.  So did I.  It was the most touching 
moment in the book, and the only thing I can think of is that Dan is 
getting older and ? what works well in the book - such as Moody 
carrying Harry to his office ? just doesn't cut it in the movie.  As 
for the Yule ball
I loved it.  It looked like a crystal palace.  The 
dancing
well, there wasn't much of that, unfortunately.  I really 
wanted to see Harry a bit more
but it was not to be.  The flowing 
red capes against all the icy colors was spectacular
then 2 seconds 
later you have rock and roll
okay, okay
they are kids and that was 
probably more fun for them, but I really had hoped the waltz would 
have gone on longer.  

Wow, no SPEW ? yes, that was a great cut.

The first time I saw the graveyard scene ? this is going to sound so 
stupid ? but it felt as though Harry didn't go through near enough.  
Reading the passages in the book was painful - I had to put it down 
a few times just to catch my breath. The book had him go through so 
much.  The I saw the movie a second time, and I felt stupid for 
thinking that. The movie is so quick paced that you don't have a lot 
of time to think...you just react.

Dan did do a great job.  I also loved the fact that Mom & Dad came 
at almost the same exact moment.  The second time I realized that 
Dad actually came a bit behind Mom
so that threw me a bit.

I think Dumbledore knew about Moody only because it was Moody who 
had been told to put the cup somewhere in the maze.  When Harry 
arrived back with Cedric, and then was quickly whisked away by the 
very same man who had put the cup in the maze
Dumbledore must have 
realized only Moody could have turned it into a portkey.  A big 
leap, I guess, but it's how my mind filled in the blanks. Either 
that, or Dumbledore didn't know anything except that he wanted to 
find Harry and when he wasn't in the hospital, and they found 
Moody's door locked tight...time to put wands at the ready!

I know you loved the Veritaserum scene ? but the way Snape kept 
hitting Ron and Harry in the study hall was great.  I think Alan 
Rickman might have enjoyed that scene a bit too much.  And no
there 
is no one as good as he for Snape.  

The joy of having the books before the movie is that the film makers 
can forecast things
because they know what's going to happen.  
Giving Neville a bit more of a part, and keeping the twins is a 
blessing.  Draco's importance ? until this last book ? has been 
minimal, and with each book seemed to be less important.  

As for the Polyjuice, etc., I think that after POA, they wanted to 
make sure that everyone was on the same page.  They got so much crap 
from not explaining the Marauder's Map and Lupin/Sirius/Pettigrew's 
relationship with Harry's Dad, that they probably wanted to make 
sure they covered all the bases in this movie.

The ending doesn't change with a second viewing.  It still sounds 
very upbeat when Hermione says that everything is changing. 

I'm glad you got someone to go with ? I'd hate to think of someone 
who loves this series as much as you do, missing out.

KathyO 

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Sherry Gomes" <sherriola at e...> 
wrote:
>
> Well, i've finally seen the movie!  Thanks so much to Diana, who 
responded
> to my "Aren't there in HP fans in the Seattle area?" and 
volunteered to go
> with me and be my movie describer.  Great job, Diana!  I didn't 
miss a
> thing.  
> 
> Now for my movie impressions.
> 
> Well, first of all WOW!  I agree with all who said that it is the 
best of
> the four.  It seemed like the perfect blend of making things more
> interesting for a movie, visually, and keeping true to the spirit 
of the
> story.  I was quite blown away and hope to be able to go again.  I 
won't
> need description a second time.
> 
> Here are some likes and dislikes in no particular order.
> 
> Dan was wonderful!  Especially in the graveyard and returning with 
Cedric's
> body.  His emotion when he proclaimed that Voldemort is back and 
his sobbing
> was realistic and very moving.  What a difference from that 
horrible crying
> episode in the last movie.  I just loved him all the way through.  
I agree,
> love the, I love magic, line.
> 
> Rupert again, he is just excellent.  I've always thought he was 
the best
> natural actor of the trio, and he still was, though Dan's 
performance due to
> the emotional things he was dealing with was the best overall.  
But Rupert
> is just natural on the screen.  His lines never sound forced.
> 
> Emma seemed over the top in everything.  It seemed that every 
single line of
> dialog she had was a pronouncement and melodramatic.  But she 
wasn't super
> girl this time and I'm very grateful for that.  I wish I could 
have seen her
> all dressed up for the ball.
> 
> I have a lot of mixed feeling about Gambon's portrayal of 
Dumbledore in this
> film.  Most of the time, I really dislike him.  Perhaps it is that 
his voice
> is very nasally.  There were times in the first half or so of the 
movie in
> which he seemed to be almost slurring his words as well, running 
them all
> together with not much emotion.  But from the time, Harry returns 
with
> Cedric, he was great!  Loved his anger and grief and the dorm 
scene with
> Harry.
> 
> I didn't like the changes in how Harry learned about the dragons.  
If Ron
> knew about the dragons in advance, then it kind of diminished the 
impact
> when he sees that Harry has to face dragons in the first task.  
That's when
> he realizes someone is out to get Harry killed and gets over his 
anger.  The
> movie way made it seem like Ron knew there were dragons but was 
still mad
> enough not to end the fight.  I don't know; it just didn't work as 
well for
> me as the way it happens in the book.  But I did love Hermione's 
uttering
> Boys! When they stop fighting.  Beautiful.
> 
> The first task.  I can imagine it was great visually.  But it 
seemed that
> through the whole thing Harry was just trying to stay out of reach 
of the
> dragon.  Well, of course, but I didn't get the sense that getting 
his
> broomstick gave him that sense of confidence that he has in the 
book, when
> he gets on his Firebolt.  He didn't become the one on the 
offensive in the
> movie; he was just still trying to stay away.  It took an accident 
to the
> dragon--if I understood the scene correctly--for Harry to be able 
to
> succeed, instead of his own skill and cunning.
> 
> Will I get a howler if I say I still wish they'd eliminated the 
Yule ball
> and kept the hospital scene?  I suppose that for a film, the ball 
was fun,
> but even though I'm somewhat of a hopeless romantic, it doesn't 
really add
> to the story.  If they had to cut things for the movie, getting 
rid of SPEW
> was a blessed cut.  But I'd have rather had the hospital with 
Molly and
> Sirius, Snape and fudge and the whole mood it sets up for the next
> book/movie.  However, having said that, Hermione was wonderful in 
that
> scene.  Well, both she and Ron.  They really got that right.
> 
> Ah the graveyard scene!  Fabulous.  Voldemort's return was great.  
Ralph
> Fiennes--spelling?--really nailed that.  I really felt the fear as 
he
> returned.  He did a great evil Voldemort in the really only 
terrifying
> Voldemort scenes we seem to have in the series.  Harry's fear and 
pain were
> great.  I mean, how Dan played it!  Loved the wands linking and 
the echoes
> of the dead.  I began to cry when James spoke to Harry.  Harry 
hasn't had
> his dad knocked off the pedestal yet, and it was very touching to 
hear James
> telling him what to do.  I'm partial to fathers anyway, having 
been raised
> by mine.  I really, really liked that moment, in spite of the fear.
> 
> Ok, here's what I missed.  How did Dumbledore know moody wasn't 
Moody?  In
> the book, he tells Harry to stay there, and doesn't let Fudge send 
him up to
> the school.  This is after the return from the graveyard with 
Cedric's body.
> He tells Harry later that the real moody would never have 
disobeyed that
> order and taken him away, and that's how he knew the truth.  But 
how did he
> know in the movie? 
> 
> Loved Snape and Harry in the scene with the Veritaserum!  I 
thought that was
> one of the best Snape scenes in any of the films.  The whole 
sneering way he
> spoke to Harry, the way he talks about his hand just slipping with 
Harry's
> pumpkin juice.  It was just Snape.  Was there ever a better job of 
casting
> than Alan Rickman as Snape?
> 
> Loved Neville in this movie.  The twins were great as ever.  not 
much
> Draco--no loss really.
> 
> Moody was fantastic!  Oh wow, what a great job he did in that 
role.  What
> can I say?  It was just great.
> 
> I didn't like Crouch senior.  He seemed too fumbling and wimpy.  I 
could see
> it if they'd followed the book story line more on that and he'd 
gradually
> gone from tough to fumbling, but it just felt off this way.  The 
Crouches
> story line didn't make a lot of sense to me even yet.  Also, it 
sure seemed
> like the outcome was being telegraphed all along.  If anyone who 
didn't know
> the story hadn't figured out about poly juice potion by the end, I 
don't
> know what they were doing.  The clues were so big they could knock 
you out
> if they hit you over the head.  All the talk of poly juice; the 
constant
> showing of Moody drinking from his flask.  Maybe it's just because 
I knew
> what was going on, but I still felt that anyone paying attention 
to the
> clues would have guessed it way before the end.  Well, I guessed 
the ending
> of the movie the Sixth Sense long before the end too.  Do you 
think the fact
> that I'm not distracted by the visual stuff makes me pick up on 
clues like
> that?  Did anyone go with someone who hadn't read the book, and 
did they
> figure it out in advance?
> 
> I did not like the ending.  Of course, I've read all the comments 
here.  But
> Emma actually sounded like she was trying not to laugh as she gave 
her line
> about everything changing.  It really felt off, too positive and 
happy
> almost.  None of the sense of impending trouble.  Maybe that needs 
a second
> viewing, but it didn't work for me at all.
> 
> So, those are my instant impressions, anyway.  Again, thank you 
Diana, for
> going with me and being such a great describing person!  In spite 
of knowing
> the story so well, this movie is all about visuals, and it would 
have been
> hard to follow the first time without someone to watch it with 
me.  I can't
> wait to get this one on DVD and expect it to become one of those 
movies I
> watch repeatedly!
> 
> Love, love, love it!
> 
> Sherry
>







From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 24 21:15:00 2005
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 21:15:00 -0000
Subject: my GOF impressions
In-Reply-To: <001501c5f117$4f71d850$0400a8c0@pensive>
Message-ID: <dm5agk+115e0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Sherry Gomes" <sherriola at e...> 
wrote:
> Now for my movie impressions.
> 
> Well, first of all WOW!  I agree with all who said that it is the 
best of
> the four.  It seemed like the perfect blend of making things more
> interesting for a movie, visually, and keeping true to the spirit 
of the
> story.  I was quite blown away and hope to be able to go again.  I 
won't
> need description a second time.


Alla:


Heee! I am glad you did it , Sherry. I went to see it for  the 
second time yesterday.

Sherry: 
> Here are some likes and dislikes in no particular order.
> 
> Dan was wonderful!  Especially in the graveyard and returning with 
Cedric's
> body.  His emotion when he proclaimed that Voldemort is back and 
his sobbing
> was realistic and very moving.  What a difference from that 
horrible crying
> episode in the last movie.  I just loved him all the way through.  
I agree,
> love the, I love magic, line.

Alla:

He was wonderful, wasn't he?


Sherry:
> Emma seemed over the top in everything.  It seemed that every 
single line of
> dialog she had was a pronouncement and melodramatic.  But she 
wasn't super
> girl this time and I'm very grateful for that.  I wish I could 
have seen her
> all dressed up for the ball.

Alla:

I thought Emma was a bit over ther top in some episodes, especially 
when Moody was demonstrating Unforgivables. Her being distressed, 
especially more distressed than Neville did not make much sense to 
me. But I thought she was brilliant in Yule ball scene,especially in 
her argument with Ron. I thought " you ruined everything" was a 
great line and her sitting on the stairs and looking like lost 
Cinderella... Nice. I enjoyed it very much.

As to her gown, I was not very impressed. I wish they would dressed 
her up in more evening look gown, I think black dress would have 
suited her nicely.

I am saying it NOT because I did not like her lilac gown, but 
because I did not get a scence of transformed Hermione, you know 
that shock and awe when narrator looks through Harry eyes and sees 
how plain looking Hermione suddenly changed. Emma is a beatiful 
young woman, no question about it, but that is why I was not 
impressed with her appearance. So she pulled her hair up and put on 
the beatiful dress, I still got  the sense of beatiful young woman 
looking a bit more beatiful, you know.

But this is I think what happens when filmmakers pick beatiful woman 
to play the heroine which is supposed to look plain, initially at 
least.

I am reminded of some adaptations of Jane Eyre, and I had seen 
several ( love this book), where actress who plays Jane is very very 
pretty and when other characters talk about how plain she looks, it 
always makes me laugh.

I have a same feeling about Emma. It is not a major dislike, just 
minor irritation, because Emma is certainly a delight to watch, but 
I just find it funny.


Ooops, I started talking about Emma's acting and spent two 
paragraphs discussing her looks. :)


Sherry;
 Will I get a howler if I say I still wish they'd eliminated the 
Yule ball
> and kept the hospital scene? 

Alla:

LOL! No howler from me, but I would not want Yule Ball 
illumination , because Hermione and Ron's arguing was so great, 
IMO. :-)

I did miss Hospital scene of course, how could I not, but I was more 
Okay with it than I thought I would be.

Sherry;
> Moody was fantastic!  Oh wow, what a great job he did in that 
role.  What
> can I say?  It was just great.

Alla:

He was a scene stealer, I loved him. I wish they would keep him in  
the next movie.



Sherry:
 I can't
> wait to get this one on DVD and expect it to become one of those 
movies I
> watch repeatedly!
> 
> Love, love, love it!


Alla:

Yeah, me too.






From eggplant107 at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 24 22:34:27 2005
From: eggplant107 at hotmail.com (eggplant107)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 22:34:27 -0000
Subject: my GOF impressions
In-Reply-To: <001501c5f117$4f71d850$0400a8c0@pensive>
Message-ID: <dm5f5j+44rv@eGroups.com>

"Sherry Gomes" <sherriola at e...> wrote:

> Emma actually sounded like she was 
> trying not to laugh as she gave her
> line about everything changing. It
> really felt off, too positive 
> and happy almost.   

I very strongly disagree, I don't think Emma looked one bit happy, she
looked like somebody trying desperately to keep people's spirits up
and not to show the deep despair she felt and not being entirely
successful. In fact I'd say that was the best acting Emma has ever
done, I'd say that line was the second best bit of acting in the
entire movie; the best happened a few seconds later when Dan uttered a
single word, "Yes". Congratulations Dan, I didn't think you had it in
you.    

Eggplant








From nicholas at adelanta.co.uk  Wed Nov 23 23:05:50 2005
From: nicholas at adelanta.co.uk (nicholas dean)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 23:05:50 +0000
Subject: Review of GoF; spoilers
Message-ID: <p06110401bfaa99a63357@[217.154.252.166]>

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E
I saw the film twice over the weekend; once with BW (beloved wife) 
who isn't a big HP fan but is in luuurve with David Tennant and Ralph 
Fiennes; and once with our eleven-year old, whom we thought would be 
the only one of our kids who could cope with the material.

I found GoF very much of a mixed bag. Yes, the special effects were 
great; the tasks were spectacular, it was action-packed; yet, halfway 
through my first viewing, I found myself wondering whether I really 
wanted to see it again the following day. Bad sign.

The pluses:-

- The second task; brilliantly done, flawless special effects, and, 
as a diver (amateur, of course), I take my hat off to young Radcliffe 
for what he went through in filming the sequence.

- Moody; Gleason was excellent, and although I had never imagined 
Moody with an Irish accent,  it worked very well.

- The greater emphasis on Neville and Ginny; presumably after OoP was 
published  the writers saw where things were heading...

- Ron given a greater range of emotion; no longer just comic relief, 
this time around he was played much closer to his character in the 
books.

- The scene where Ron had asked Fleur to the Yule Ball. Brilliantly acted.

- The graveyard scene.

- The snake-like facial tic which clearly identified the fake Moody 
with Barty Crouch Jr.

- The editing (in agreement with Richard), particularly the cut from 
the end of the first task to the Gryffindor Common Room. I smiled to 
think of what Chris Columbus would have done with the end of the 
first task; at least three laps of the stadium on the Firebolt, with 
everyone cheering (even the Slytherins and Durmstrangs).

However, I really disliked the camerawork in the Yule Ball sequence. 
Way too choppy.

-The acting; I thought all of the kids did well; Emma Watson a bit 
OTT on occasion.

- The first task until the dragon broke loose; then it just got silly.

Neutral;
- The script. I find Kloves very uneven; in some scenes he does 
excellent work; in others I wondered whether he had flunked the 
George Lucas School of Scriptwriting. Cases in point; both of 
Dumbledore's final scenes, and, toe-curlingly bad, the scene in the 
dormitory when Harry and Ron first fall out.

Minuses;

- The ending was very weak. It was never going to be an easy thing to 
film,  as a sense of anti-climax, combined with grief and foreboding, 
is not a great way to end a movie. What they came up with was just 
too wishy-washy. I would have preferred to see Hagrid's (book) speech 
about 'what will come will come', and the jinxing of Malfoy and Co by 
Harry and his supporters (on the train in the book, but it could just 
as well have been done at Hogwarts), which  would have added a 
lighter touch while at the same time illustrating that Harry is 
indeed 'not alone'.

-The maze. I thought it was incredibly badly done.  To get through 
the movie's maze, you didn't have to have much wizarding talent; all 
that was needed was a good sense of direction and the ability to run 
fast. I found the moving hedges faintly ridiculous. Was Fleur 
supposed to have been caught by Devil's Snare?  What was that wind? 
And why was the maze so large? It was said that the teachers would 
patrol around the outside...hopefully on Firebolts, as they would 
have taken a week to walk around. I didn't really expect there to be 
all of the challenges of the book, but a few would have been nice. A 
boggart /dementor would have been a useful bridge between PoA and 
OoP, and we really needed to see Harry casting some familiar spells 
at that stage.

A related point; we see throughout the books that the kids are 
learning spells in their classes at Hogwarts, and then Harry puts 
them into practice in the various challenges he faces. There was none 
of that in GoF, and there really should have been. Harry used 'Accio' 
twice during the film, both at really significant points; it would 
have been nice to see him learning Summoning charms, as we did in the 
book, to appreciate the spell when it was cast in the first task and 
in the graveyard.

But my main objection to GoF is with the storytelling.

The plot of GoF is considerably more complex than that of the 
previous novels, because there are two main plot strands interwoven 
throughout; the primary focus of the Triwizard tournament ,  and the 
secondary, but crucial, 'Voldemort's threat to Harry' plotline which 
comes to fruition in the graveyard. Of course, both plotlines are 
interlinked, and the book does a good job of letting the reader know 
that things are going on behind the scenes and that Voldemort is 
indeed closing in on Harry. The movie, however, fails to do this, to 
such an extent that the graveyard scene explodes like a deus ex 
machina into the action. If the intent is to shock the audience, then 
it works spectacularly; but there has to be sufficient foreshadowing 
of this kind of surprise to make the final showdown logical. Two 
references to Polyjuice Potion are not enough.

This is the reason why it was a mistake to all but write out Sirius 
from the movie; because in the book, it is he alone who keeps his 
focus firmly on Harry, and it is Sirius who keeps reminding the 
reader that something else is going on.

Bizarrely, more of the foreshadowing does seem to have been filmed; 
on one of the 'making of' programmes, and on one of the trailers 
currently being shown on British television, there is a voiceover 
with Harry saying 'Something's getting closer...I can feel it'; but, 
as far as I remember, that didn't make the final edit into the movie 
itself.

Quite apart from the damage to the internal logic of the story, how 
in the world are they going to explain Harry's devastation at the 
loss of Sirius at the end of OoP? They have done nothing to show the 
ongoing relationship and to persuade us that Sirius has become a 
father-figure to Harry.

A film adaptation basically needs to achieve two things; a competent 
telling of the story, and the same emotional journey for the 
protagonist *and the viewer* as was achieved through the book. I have 
explained my concerns about the story-telling above; and with the 
emotional journey GoF also falls short, as did PoA before it.

It is bad enough that  the backstory of the Marauders' Map, 
particularly the identity of Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot and Prongs, was 
omitted from PoA. No, it doesn't add to the story, but it does add 
immeasurably to the emotional satisfaction gained by Harry and the 
reader in knowing that Prongs rode again that night. Did the director 
perchance think that Oldman (Oldman!) wouldn't be able to get that 
line across? It would have had far more impact than 'You really are 
the brightest witch of your age, Hermione'.

But to fail to give more information on 'Priori Incantatem' in GoF is 
unforgivable. The fact that Harry's and Voldemort's wands cannot act 
against each other is crucial to the plot of GoF and, unless I am 
much mistaken, will probably reappear in HP7. Why wasn't it 
explained? The groundwork for it was laid by Ollivander's speech way 
back in PS/SS; why not give Dumbledore thirty seconds more dialogue 
to bring that to completion in GoF?

These may seem like minor points; but again, it's all about the 
important sense of completeness for the audience at the end of the 
films. Take that away and you leave a huge hole in the heart of the 
movies.

When one first views a film adaptation of a favourite book, there is 
always a tiny worm of disappointment that it is not, and never can 
be, one's own personal vision. With a good adaptation, however, one 
usually gets over that and can appreciate the movie for what it is. 
With GoF the lack of build-up towards the climax of the film meant 
that, for me at least, the worm assumed 'Tremors'-type proportions. 
Unless you have the coherence of the underlying threat to Harry shown 
throughout the movie, you end up with five setpieces strung together 
with a lot of teenage angst.

So did I enjoy the second showing of GoF after all? Yes; by ignoring 
the holes in the plot and concentrating on the special effects.
Shame.

Cheers,
Nicholas
(also posted on D'warts)

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From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Fri Nov 25 05:15:01 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 00:15:01 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Initial review by Diana L. - Krum Bewitched.
In-Reply-To: <dloihq+ufus@eGroups.com>
References: <dloihq+ufus@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4bd6f9e922677736ab3f7bce23bc02f6@verizon.net>

>  bboyminn:
>
>  Just a quick explanation of this one point. True the Imperios Curse is
>  introduced earlier in the movie, but no where in the maze or after is
>  it said or implied that Krum was Imperioed. Harry merely says that
>  Krum was 'bewitched', and we are presumably to accept that he wasn't
>  responsible for his actions. But it seems to be left at that.
>
>  WE ALL logically assume he was Imperioed because we read the books,
>  but the movie doesn't establish that fact.

I thought at first that his eyes were clouded over by his own doing. 
The maze was dark so he gave himself cat or night vision eyes in order 
to be able to see in the dark.
Valerie


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From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Fri Nov 25 05:33:45 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 00:33:45 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Hermione's ending speech
In-Reply-To: <dlpg3t+r9q5@eGroups.com>
References: <dlpg3t+r9q5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <7689a17665455ff974eea3777ad77c6b@verizon.net>

>  Diana replies:
>
>  I didn't get the line reading that Hermione gave at the end
>  either.? "Everything is going to change now, isn't it?" has been
>  playing in the trailers consistently, yet it's set up to imply she's
>  either talking about their inerpersonal relationships or perhaps
>  Harry's being entered in the tournament or maybe even after the
>  reconcilliation of Harry and Ron.? I was quite surprised to see it
>  pop up at the end in reference to the impending gloom that is
>  inevitable due to the return of Lord Voldemort!?
>
>  Why say the line with a suppressed smile?? It makes no sense.? I
>  suppose it could be an example of gallows humor, but that's
>  defnitely Ron's forte, not Hermione's.?

Yes, that was different from the book. I've thought about that end 
scene where Harry is walking and watching all the other kids hug and 
say goodbye. His face is somber (he does, of course, carry the weight 
of the wizarding world on his shoulders!) I thought that was well done, 
but then didn't get it when he gives a little smile. Maybe that was to 
show his dawning comprehension of what DD and Hermione had previously 
stated - that bringing the 3 different wizarding worlds together was a 
good thing that would strengthen the resolve and resistance against 
Voldemort/Evil.
I loved the way Ron hopped over the stone wall and Hermione rounded the 
corner. I think she definitely was referring to their budding sexuality 
when she spoke of things changing.
When Harry replied "yes", I believe he was talking more of the 
impending repercussions of Voldie's return. That said, perhaps he 
should've had a bit more of a frown on his face??
I didn't mind the fading into the sunset ending...it wrapped up the 
story nicely and let the audience leave without that gutwrenching 
feeling of death and evil.
It did remind me more of the end of Half Blood Prince though!
Valerie


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From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Fri Nov 25 06:11:41 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 01:11:41 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Random Ramblings of GOF
In-Reply-To: <dlseb8+e113@eGroups.com>
References: <dlseb8+e113@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a34ea90e5832a90d3f0dbecbcb52a041@verizon.net>

On Nov 21, 2005, at 7:25 AM, susanbones2003 wrote:

>
>  > Sabrina:
>  >
>  > I also cried in the scene when Harry returned with Cedric's body.?
>  > Everyone was cheering, and there was festive music playing because
>  > everyone thought they made it back and Harry won.? Dan did a great
>  > job in that scene, crying over Cedric and not wanting to leave him.?
>  > (He'll be an expert by the time Half-Blood Prince comes around and 
> he
>  > has to cry over DD).? Once people realized what had happened and
>  > Cedric's dad started crying for his dead son, I lost it, and cried.
>  >
>  Sabrina,
>  I thought it spoke so well of Dan's growing talent how easily he
>  displayed emotion this time round. I felt so awful for him in POA when
>  he was sitting on that rock, under the invisibililty cloak and this
>  terribly unnatural sound was coming out. I thought he did a fabulous
>  job this time at showing all kinds of emotions. The fear in his face
>  before the first task was palpable! My fists were clenched the whole
>  time. When he brought Cedric back, I was blown away at the tragedy and
>  irony as you all mentioned. People cheering and bands playing and lots
>  of merriment and no one understanding (until Fleur) that Harry's
>  sobbing and Cedric is dead. Dan's performance was so true, so honest, 
> I
>  was crying and didn't realize it. Dan rose to the challenge of this
>  movie so manfully. I am so proud!
>  Jen

Ditto!!! I was so impressed with his much improved crying. I heard much 
sniffling in the theatre!! Even the 50 year old guy-friend I was with 
was crying (though he claimed it was just popcorn in his throat. Ha!)
Yay Dan, Rupert, Emma et al!!!! I thought the acting was so strong in 
GOF and have heard that Newell really pushed them all. It showed.
Valerie
>
>
>
>
>
>
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From artsylynda at aol.com  Fri Nov 25 06:43:08 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 01:43:08 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] movie length
Message-ID: <254.20d9b79.30b80c7c@aol.com>

I sat through nearly all the credits, then finally gave up when  they got to 
the ILM credits, which I knew would take ANOTHER ten minutes (I'd  already sat 
through ten minutes of credits, I think).  There are many  movies that give 
you fun little things at the end if you're patient.   "Pirates of the 
Caribbean" has a fun scene where the monkey shows up and grabs a  gold coin and makes 
off with it, looking quite gleeful.  I was hoping for  something fun like that 
at the end of this, but this wasn't a "fun ending" kind  of film.  I loved the 
Marauder's Map and Dan saying "Mischief  managed.  Nox" at the end of PoA.  
And the fun little things they put  in some films' credits -- the credits of 
"Airplane!" for instance include a  brownie recipe (if I recall correctly) and 
identify Hitler as a real creepy guy  (they used some funnier terminology that 
identified him as a monster, but I  can't think what it was right now).  The 
Police Squad movies all have funny  credits too.  We laughed when we saw 
"Sideways" (not that funny or good a  film, IMO, but the credits had a funny line) 
and they had a credit line that  said "No California Oaks were harmed in the 
making of this motion  picture."  (A car had run into a tree in the film.)   

Lynda AKA "Abraxan"

Read my Harry Potter fics here:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From artsylynda at aol.com  Fri Nov 25 06:47:13 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 01:47:13 EST
Subject: what was that line??
Message-ID: <238.24c899b.30b80d71@aol.com>

Okay, now that a bunch of us have seen the film more than once,  there are 
several lines that are nearly unintelligible in the film.  The  one that bothers 
me the most is when Moody throws something (chalk?) at Seamus  and yells 
something about class rules, but I can't understand it.  It seems  that he's 
saying "these are the class rules" and then he never gives any class  rules.  And 
why is he writing on the board, when other teachers tap the  board with a wand 
and the lesson appears on it??  (McG and Snape, as I  recall).  

Lynda AKA "Abraxan"

Read my Harry Potter fics here:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Fri Nov 25 07:16:18 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 02:16:18 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Best Character Scenes
In-Reply-To: <dlv8r6+7jhp@eGroups.com>
References: <dlv8r6+7jhp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <492dd1dfff48cff8983e892190983092@verizon.net>


On Nov 22, 2005, at 9:09 AM, cubfanbudwoman wrote:

> Sabrina wrote:
>  > > I thought it would be fun to see what everyone's favorite
>  > > character scenes were for each actor/actress.?
>  > >
>  > > Dan - Cedric's Death Scene
>  > > Emma - Yule Ball Argument
>  > > Rupert - Telling Harry to "Piss Off"/ Yule Ball (its? a toss up)
>  > > Gleeson - DADA class
>  > > Rickman - not much to choose from here, but I liked when he
>  > > smacked Harry and Ron around for talking in class.
>  > > Gambon - Ending Dormitory scene with Harry
>  > > Coltrane - Stabbing Flitwick with the fork
>  > > Matthew - "I killed Harry Potter!"? The look on his face was
>  > > priceless.
>
>  Some of Alora's choices:
>  > Ron - the freak out scene when he's in the dress robes
>  > Gleeson - the face he makes at McG after the ferret incident!
>  > Coltran -? gettin' all handsy with Madame Maxine
>  > Matthew - Neville dancing, and being excited about coming in late!?
>  > Twins - Whichever one asked Angelina to the ball, can't remember.?
>  > Loved how he did the dancing motion.? Also, loved them heckling Ron
>  > while he was dancing with McG
>
>
>  SSSusan:
>  Dan - The Cedric scene... and his "NOBODY could figure that out, it's
>  totally mental" to Ron.
>  Emma - Another vote for her after-the-ball encounter with Ron
>  Rupert - The whole dormitory scene from "How did you do it?" to "Piss
>  off."
>  Gleeson - The look for McGonagall after the ferret incident
>  Rickman - The potions store cupboard scene with Harry ["DON'T lie to
>  me."]
>  Gambon - The dormitory scene with Harry
>  Coltrane - His reminder to Harry that *he* would do well to comb his
>  hair, too, on occasion
>  Matthew - When he stood up first among the boys to learn to dance
>  Twins - Repeating McGonagall's "bumbling babbling bunch of baboons"
>  (or whatever she said ;-))? Actually, this is subject to change,
>  every time I remember another twins scene.
>
>  And I'll add:?
>  Maggie Smith - The "decision" scene with Snape & DD, when she
>  argues "To hell with Barty!"
>
>  Siriusly Snapey Susan

Ah this is hard! So many good ones...
Dan: All those close-up shots of his gorgeous eyes. What a handsome guy!
Also loved the "EW, YUCK!" look he gave Hagrid/Mme. Maxine from under 
the cloak! :-)
Emma: The wonderfully convincing way she portrayed a young girl on her 
first date. The little giggle as she walked into the ball with Krum. 
How she spun around after she danced with Krum, almost dizzy with 
excitement.
Ron: The gesture he throws at his buddies when they are jeering at him 
having to dance with McGonagall. So realistic!
The Twins: all their scenes were laugh-out-loud funny! Especially love 
the asking Angelina to the ball wink.
Gleeson: "Only one has been know to survive the killing curse; and he's 
right here in this room". That gave me chills! And the intense look 
Harry gives him in response.
Snape: The head-smacking and rolling up of the sleeves. Comical; 
Snape?! Loved it!
Krum: Loved how he strode angrily into the great hall. To me that was 
the most canon-like Krum.
Filch: dancing w/Mrs. Norris who was purring!!! Don't know who decided 
to make Filch comical, but it was funny (hopping into the great hall; 
fumbling with the grammaphone; shooting off the canon at the count of 
one!
Valerie
>


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From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Fri Nov 25 07:27:25 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 02:27:25 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Best character scenes
In-Reply-To: <289.21f30d.30b49944@aol.com>
References: <289.21f30d.30b49944@aol.com>
Message-ID: <f9a2506faff3a259a4503fcb18016361@verizon.net>

Harry: This is a broom closet.
Rita Skeeter: Well then you should feel right at home!

Can you BELIEVE she said THAT?!?! What an evil, hateful wench!

And "Young love! So.......stirring!"

MIranda really was great. Too bad they didn't throw in Hermione 
catching her in a jar. I thought that was great.

Valerie




From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Fri Nov 25 07:50:56 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 02:50:56 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] actors teeth and tongues!
In-Reply-To: <20051123203109.37921.qmail@web53212.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051123203109.37921.qmail@web53212.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <53179c3e7fbab0dfae842cd2a1827388@verizon.net>

>  Also, somebody asked about the motivation for Crouch Sr's murder in 
> the film.
>  The second time I watched the film, I saw Moody flick out his tongue 
> after
>  telling Crouch that "The last boy who went into the Department of 
> Mysteries
>  never came out" or words to that effect, and then Crouch Sr gets this 
> weird
>  look of recognition on his face.? That's why Jr killed him, because he
>  recognized that Moody is really Jr.

> Sherry Garfio

OK. I was wondering about that...why does Barty Jr. flick out his 
tongue like a serpent? Has he been hanging around Nagini too long?!?!? 
I saw the film twice and noticed how he does that several times 
throughout the film. Odd...
Also, why is it that Sirius and Karkaroff have nasty Azkaban teeth but 
Barty Jr. does not???
Somehow it seemed as though Voldemort should have cobra fangs or 
something, instead of those tiny teeth.
Valerie


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From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Fri Nov 25 08:03:34 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 03:03:34 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Voldemort
In-Reply-To: <dm4kmf+obbt@eGroups.com>
References: <dm4kmf+obbt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <759f74e7b9981011c97cd6ebb35c95fe@verizon.net>


On Nov 24, 2005, at 10:02 AM, louisemccabe88 wrote:

> Not sure how much you have discussed he who must not be named in GOF
>  but I thought he was fantastic.? It was one of the things I was most
>  looking forward to, seeing how they portrayed him.? He was much
>  scarier than I was expecting and stronger.? I was worried he would
>  turn out as some sort of cartoon villian but this just didn't happen.
>
Did you see that close-up shot of him on Leaky? How creepy!!! The 
translucent skin; that nasty slit nose. No wonder the poor guy had to 
sit in makeup 1/2 the day! I thought he was even scarier when he was 
that tiny shriveled up creature in Wormtail's arms. Then he threw him 
in the cauldron. Ewwww!!!!! What I really appreciated was that when he 
was that creature  his voice was high and raspy, very similar to how it 
was in SS/PS when he was on Quirrel's head. I was hoping they wouldn't 
completely change that look, as that was our only previous viewing of 
present day Voldie. And they didn't.
I thought that V's billowing black robes were very cool. Somehow all 
his talking and strutting around made him less scary/threatening to me 
though. Until he pressed on poor Harry's scar, making him scream in 
agony. That poor kid; what he must endure!!!
Great job Ralph! And Dan!
Valerie


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From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Fri Nov 25 08:23:40 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 03:23:40 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] what was that line??
In-Reply-To: <238.24c899b.30b80d71@aol.com>
References: <238.24c899b.30b80d71@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5c662ebd1bdd7c76e9f368520b7153f2@verizon.net>


On Nov 25, 2005, at 1:47 AM, artsylynda at aol.com wrote:

> Okay, now that a bunch of us have seen the film more than once,? there 
> are
>  several lines that are nearly unintelligible in the film.? The? one 
> that bothers
>  me the most is when Moody throws something (chalk?) at Seamus? and 
> yells
>  something about class rules, but I can't understand it.? It seems? 
> that he's
>  saying "these are the class rules" and then he never gives any class? 
> rules...

As I recall Moody says something to the effect of "...and find another 
place to put your gum Mr. Finnegan!" who replies
"The old codger can see out of the back of his head!"
Moody: "AND hear from across the room!"

(I think that's pretty close)

I have another Moody question. During the ferret scene when Draco takes 
out  his wand to hex Harry as he turns away, what does Moody yell at 
Draco???
Valerie


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From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Fri Nov 25 09:11:39 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 04:11:39 -0500
Subject: GOF feedback/special effects
In-Reply-To: <dlsiu3+97km@eGroups.com>
References: <dlsiu3+97km@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1383fa3baffd092e56a6772b0c635bad@verizon.net>

OK, I've finally caught up on all the posts since last week's opening.
My overall reaction to GOF was WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was a non-stop ride from start to finish that left me completely 
drained. My friend and I were covering our mouths in terror during the 
dragon and Voldemort scenes. Of course I knew the plot but the movie 
just took me on that emotional roller coaster ride.
I intentionally did not re-read GOF, as I knew some things would be 
changed. And they were. But, as many posters mentioned, I had less 
problem with these omissions than I did in POA.
The only thing that bugged me was the Crouch storyline. The fact that 
Crouch Jr. was at the Riddle house in the beginning. Such a big change 
from the book. But really, he could've showed up there after his escape 
from Azkaban, no?
But why in the world was he hanging out with the Wizengamott at the MOM 
during the Pensieve scene? That made absolutely no sense. I know they 
did it for the sake of time, but it was silly. I believe in the book 
Harry goes into the Pensieve several times, no? The Karkaroff scene was 
different from the Crouch Jr/Bella scene. ( And where WAS Bellatrix? 
They'd better not leave her out of OotP!! Though I heard they've cast 
her, so I think we're safe there). Wasn't that cage Karkaroff was in 
wicked?! Talk about torture chamber! I pictured him more sitting in an 
electric chair kind of thing.

Anyway, aside from that, and maybe the omissions of the Skrewt/Sphinx 
in the maze, I thought the movie was fantastic.

The special effects were incredible and should win awards. And you have 
to commend the actors for doing so well when many of their scenes were 
obviously filmed on blue screen!
- The dragon scrambing down the slate roof was soooo very real and 
threatening!
- The World Cup stadium was more awesome than I'd ever imagined. 
Would've enjoyed at least 5 minutes of the Quidditch match tho!
- The mermaids were hideous and the grindylows were horrifying! [That 
scene and Voldemort definitely made  me decide not to take my 8 year 
olds to see this film. Even my extremely mature 9 year old nephew said 
GOF was way too scary for him. And his dad's been reading HP to him 
since he was 3!]
- The priori incantatem was precisely as I had envisioned it while 
reading. Harry's fear was palpable as his mom urged him to let go, that 
he was ready.
- The devils' snare swallowing up Fleur was very creepy!
- The crazy moving hedges were quite frightening and actually built up 
a much more intense scene than in the book. Movie: Cedric is being 
violently dragged off by the devil's snare. Harry having to face giving 
up the eternal glory that he claimed to not have wanted, but in the 
fervor of seeing the gleaming, glowing cup, was definitely tempted. 
When he turned to help Cedric I couldn't help cry out "Oh Harry, you 
are SO GOOD!" That really showed Harry's true character.
What happens in the book again? A spider attacks Cedric and Harry saves 
him? Doesn't he get bit in the leg or mess up his ankle somehow? Or am 
I getting this confused with Ron in POA or Frodo in ROTK?!?!?!?!?
-Another incredible special effect was the Durmstrang ship rising up 
from the lake, sails unfurling, water gushing out.  What a beautiful 
image (and CG nightmare!)
- The dark mark; both in the sky and on the skin. SCARY!!!

I still thought that POA was much more artistically filmed with the 
camera angles, the misty, almost melancholy feel to it.I'm assuming a 
lot of that was Cuaron's direction.

I thought the Williams soundtracks were MUCH stronger. I missed some of 
the traditional HP themes that have gone through some subtle 
reincarnations in the first 3 films. I am also a "credit nerd" and 
really enjoyed all the music and visuals after POA. I wasn't that 
impressed with the music during the GOF credits.

But all-in-all I think the director and co. did a fantastic job of 
taking a hefty, high-action, detail-laden book and translating it into 
an exciting, funny, emotionally charged, visually stunning adaptation.
IMO this is the tightest, best HP film yet!

Valerie





From artsylynda at aol.com  Fri Nov 25 14:41:20 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 09:41:20 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Ginny's dress
Message-ID: <281.5fee5a.30b87c90@aol.com>

Ginny's clothes in general looked much more "poor" and out of style  than I 
remember them looking before, and Ron was shown in more poor-looking  "Weasley 
sweaters" etc.  Since so many folks over there wear sweaters and  Molly loves 
to knit and she knits with MAGIC, not her hands (!), you'd think she  could 
get her needles to copy the STYLISH patterns in Witch Weekly,  y'know?  Poor 
kids.
 
I've always hated Ginny's hair when they had her hair braided in  the front 
(from a center part) and the braids just falling down both sides on  top of her 
hair.  This time, she looked much better with her hair loose,  and at the 
ball, the simple look of the two braids pulled back with the rest of  her hair 
down looked nice on her.  And I much prefer her with longer  hair.  I hope she 
lets it keep growing so it becomes the "long red mane"  Harry notices in Book 6 
when he sees her in the dining hall, etc.
 
Did anyone else notice that the wax dummy of Hermione that was the  "captive" 
in the water had hair at least 3-4 times as long as  Hermione's???  Emma's 
hair barely brushes her shoulders, yet there was a  long dark cloud around that 
dummy, longer than even Ginny's or Cho's hair!   I thought that was strange.  

Lynda AKA "Abraxan"

Read my Harry Potter fics here:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 25 14:43:30 2005
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora67)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 14:43:30 -0000
Subject: what was that line??
In-Reply-To: <5c662ebd1bdd7c76e9f368520b7153f2@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <dm77ui+jpic@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Valerie Flowe <valerie.flowe at v...> 
wrote:
> 
> I have another Moody question. During the ferret scene when Draco 
takes 
> out  his wand to hex Harry as he turns away, what does Moody yell at 
> Draco???
> Valerie


I think he says something that's almost word for word from the book, 
like, "You're not gonna curse someone when behind their back!"  or 
something to that effect.  I can't remember, my book is not around.

Speaking of lines, just before the penseive scene, when DD is walking 
Fudge out, what does he say to him just before he picks up his hat?  
He says something, then "you." I haven't caught that at any of my 
viewings yet.

Alora 







From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Fri Nov 25 14:49:17 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 09:49:17 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: The US Premiere of GoF in NYC
In-Reply-To: <dlajn2+6egm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <BFAC8E9D.15DA%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>

On 11/14/05 1:06 PM, "thekrenz" <thekrenz at yahoo.com> wrote:

> --- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Saundra" <saundradj at h...> wrote:
>> > I was on the look out for Alan Rickman for but didn't see him
>> > and I later learned that he didn't attend the premiere.
> 
> Was JKR at any of the premieres? I didn?t see or hear anything about her.
> Valerie



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From hp at plum.cream.org  Fri Nov 25 14:59:30 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 14:59:30 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] what was that line??
In-Reply-To: <5c662ebd1bdd7c76e9f368520b7153f2@verizon.net>
References: <238.24c899b.30b80d71@aol.com>
 <238.24c899b.30b80d71@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051125143732.00b666c0@plum.cream.org>

There are several threads I want to comment upon, but here's a couple of 
short answers in the meantime (following my fifth-and-a-half viewing...)

At 08:23 25/11/2005 , Valerie Flowe wrote:

>As I recall Moody says something to the effect of "...and find another
>place to put your gum Mr. Finnegan!" who replies
>"The old codger can see out of the back of his head!"
>Moody: "AND hear from across the room!"
>
>(I think that's pretty close)

Almost, but to be precise, "And hear across classrooms".

>I have another Moody question. During the ferret scene when Draco takes
>out  his wand to hex Harry as he turns away, what does Moody yell at
>Draco???

It's *really* mumbled, but I understood it as "Hold it there, sonny".

Alora:

>Speaking of lines, just before the penseive scene, when DD is walking
>Fudge out, what does he say to him just before he picks up his hat?
>He says something, then "you." I haven't caught that at any of my
>viewings yet.

"Minister, after you" (rather obvious, really). :-)

And elsewhere (sorry, can't find the post right now to quote), someone 
asked about incantations. There are two new incantations created for this 
movie not in the book:

"Ascendo" (Harry coming out of the water after the Second Task) - 
translation unneeded as it's where English "ascend" comes from.

" Periculum" (sending up red sparks in the maze over Fleur), which means 
"danger" (source of English "peril"). With my Latin hat on, I'm surprised 
that Kloves (perhaps with JKR's input) uses a noun rather than the usual 
source of their  inctantations, the first person singular form of verb.

--
Richard, who's almost caught up with all the posts



From hp at plum.cream.org  Fri Nov 25 15:10:54 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 15:10:54 +0000
Subject: A couple of answers
In-Reply-To: <BFAC8E9D.15DA%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>
References: <dlajn2+6egm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051125150017.00b74460@plum.cream.org>

At 14:49 25/11/2005 , Valerie Flowe wrote:

> > Was JKR at any of the premieres? I didn?t see or hear anything about her.

No. Apparently, hubby Neil was laid up sick (I think I read somewhere that 
he had appendicitis, but I could be wrong), so she stayed at home.

Elsewhere:

>Why does Barty Jr. flick out his tongue like a serpent? Has he been 
>hanging around Nagini too long?!?!?  I saw the film twice and noticed how 
>he does that several times  throughout the film. Odd...

As far as I'm concerned, it's just a nervous tick - the reason for 
including it several times is that not only does David Tenant do it, but so 
does Brendan Gleeson: it's a cinematic hint that a correspondence should be 
drawn between the two characters.

>Also, why is it that Sirius and Karkaroff have nasty Azkaban teeth but
>Barty Jr. does not???

He was younger when he was incarcerated? :-)

>Somehow it seemed as though Voldemort should have cobra fangs or
>something, instead of those tiny teeth.

That would have made him look more like a stereotypical movie vampire, 
which whilst an appropriate image per se, would have been a little 
misleading if you ask me. Personally, I was hoping for more serpentine eyes 
(as I think I've already mentioned). I also suspect that fangs would make 
talking a little difficult (although long teeth would tend to accentuate 
sibilants, which would be more than appropriate...).





From artsylynda at aol.com  Fri Nov 25 15:08:21 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 10:08:21 EST
Subject: Maze/graveyard scenes
Message-ID: <2b2.84763e.30b882e5@aol.com>

 
 
Valerie  wrote:  A spider attacks Cedric and Harry saves 
him? Doesn't he get  bit in the leg or mess up his ankle somehow?

Yeah, and I was always impressed/horrified that Harry had to duel  Voldemort 
with one leg not working well (in the book) because it was not only  badly 
cut, but had spider poison in it (I guess that's what you'd call it --  venom, 
maybe?) so it was making him ill in general in addition to the pain and  the 
blood loss.  All that, and then he had blood taken from his arm, and  then he 
suffered all that debilitating scar pain, and THEN he had to fight  the most evil 
wizard of all time, and Harry's only 14!  I really missed the  spider attack 
because it injured Harry and made his graveyard battle that much  more 
horrible.  (It also shows how noble Cedric truly was, not taking  advantage of the 
fact that Harry was injured, so he couldn't possibly beat him  to the cup -- so 
Cedric helped him to the cup.  Cedric was a really good  guy, and well played 
by Robert Pattinson -- he was very much "book!Cedric" in  the way he portrayed 
the character, IMO.)  There was an awesome power in  the "grabbing the cup" 
scene in the book because Harry had saved Cedric, and  then Cedric tried to let 
Harry take the cup because of that, and then they  shared the win.
 
Maybe the producers/director/writer thought the very  unfairness of it, the 
inequality of Harry being inexperienced, not fully  trained, only 14 and alone 
AND INJURED versus Voldie with a fresh new body and a  gang to back him up, 
was more than a PG-13 film could handle??
 
Lynda AKA "Abraxan"

Read my Harry Potter fics here:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Fri Nov 25 15:54:05 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 10:54:05 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] GoF Experience
In-Reply-To: <dlo1rg+fm7r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <BFAC9DCD.16DF%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>

On 11/19/05 3:27 PM, "Saundra" <saundradj at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hey Gang,
> 
> I too saw GoF at 11:59 Thursday night. The Theater I went had 14
> auditoriums playing HP and they were all sold out. I was on line at
> 8:30pm in falling temps simply to secure a good seat. But I wouldn't
> have missed all this for the world.
> 
> 14 theatres sold out for the midnight showing. WOW!!! Where do you live, out
> of curiosity?
> Valerie



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 25 16:27:38 2005
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora67)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 16:27:38 -0000
Subject: what was that line??
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20051125143732.00b666c0@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <dm7e1q+mtsg@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Richard <hp at p...> wrote:
> Alora:
> 
> >Speaking of lines, just before the penseive scene, when DD is 
walking
> >Fudge out, what does he say to him just before he picks up his 
hat?
> >He says something, then "you." I haven't caught that at any of my
> >viewings yet.
> 
> "Minister, after you" (rather obvious, really). :-)



Richard, 

thank you for the interpretation.  As an American, I sometimes have 
to listen doubly close to catch what British folk are saying.  It's 
especially hard when your children are with you, so it wasn't 
obvious to me!  But thank you very much.

Alora 







From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Fri Nov 25 16:31:32 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 11:31:32 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] A couple of answers
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20051125150017.00b74460@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <BFACA694.16E1%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>

> [Valerie]
>> >Somehow it seemed as though Voldemort should have cobra fangs or
>> >something, instead of those tiny teeth.
> 
> [Richard]
> That would have made him look more like a stereotypical movie vampire,
> which whilst an appropriate image per se, would have been a little
> misleading if you ask me. Personally, I was hoping for more serpentine eyes
> (as I think I've already mentioned). I also suspect that fangs would make
> talking a little difficult (although long teeth would tend to accentuate
> sibilants, which would be more than appropriate...).
> 
> [Valerie]
> Ahh, yes, that?s what was missing. The drawn out sssssssss-es when canon
> Voldemort speaks. I thought he did that well when he was ?tiny Voldemort? and
> ?Quirrel parasite Voldemort? but lost a little of the insideous evilness in
> his tone when he was brought back to life by Ralph Fiennes. I do think having
> a dark hood over his head would?ve been effective too. (as in the flashbacks
> in PS/SS when he went to kill Harry/parents in Godric?s Hollow.). The bald
> head was a bit distracting!
> Not sure why they didn?t colorize his eyes as they do for Mrs. Norris?? If I
> recall correctly when Voldemort is being resurrected he has snake eyes, no?
> Then they turn normal.
> I still think Fiennes did a terrific job. What a big task to bring one of
> contemporary literature?s most evil characters to life!
> 
> PS. What did Nagini say to Voldemort in the first scene? Was she speaking
> parseltongue or English? I couldn?t catch it both times I saw it.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From eggplant107 at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 25 21:34:05 2005
From: eggplant107 at hotmail.com (eggplant107)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 21:34:05 -0000
Subject: Amos Diggory
Message-ID: <dm800d+7smm@eGroups.com>

I think one of the unsung heroes of the movie was Jeff Rawle, the
actor who played Amos Diggory. This is a very rare example of the
movie makers making a change from the books that is a change for the
better. Unlike the book Amos who was obnoxious the movie Amos was a
slightly goofy, very likable and a very very cheerful man; it was
clear that he loved his son a great deal and was enormously proud of
him; and that meant that the total devastation and hideous grief he
felt when he discovered that his son had been murdered all the more
poignant.

Mr. Rawle sir, you are one fine actor.

Eggplant    







From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 25 21:43:14 2005
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora67)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 21:43:14 -0000
Subject: Amos Diggory
In-Reply-To: <dm800d+7smm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dm80hi+it0a@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "eggplant107" <eggplant107 at h...> 
wrote:
>
> I think one of the unsung heroes of the movie was Jeff Rawle, the
> actor who played Amos Diggory. This is a very rare example of the
> movie makers making a change from the books that is a change for 
the
> better. Unlike the book Amos who was obnoxious the movie Amos was a
> slightly goofy, very likable and a very very cheerful man; it was
> clear that he loved his son a great deal and was enormously proud 
of
> him; and that meant that the total devastation and hideous grief he
> felt when he discovered that his son had been murdered all the more
> poignant.
> 
> Mr. Rawle sir, you are one fine actor.
> 
> Eggplant


I totally agree with you.  He was amazing.  As a parent myself, he 
had me in tears when he was sobbing over Cedric.  Between him and 
Harry, I was a mess in the theater! 

Alora 






From gardengirlgarden at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 25 21:47:56 2005
From: gardengirlgarden at yahoo.com (Michelle Chandler)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 16:47:56 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Amos Diggory
References: <dm800d+7smm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <090501c5f209$e6812d20$660aa8c0@GARDENROOM>

Hear, hear. He portrayed a parent's grief exquisitely.

Michelle

"He who follows truth too closely at the heels might get kicked in the teeth."
-Sir Walter Ralegh 1552-1618
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: eggplant107 
  To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 4:34 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Amos Diggory


  I think one of the unsung heroes of the movie was Jeff Rawle, the
  actor who played Amos Diggory. This is a very rare example of the
  movie makers making a change from the books that is a change for the
  better. Unlike the book Amos who was obnoxious the movie Amos was a
  slightly goofy, very likable and a very very cheerful man; it was
  clear that he loved his son a great deal and was enormously proud of
  him; and that meant that the total devastation and hideous grief he
  felt when he discovered that his son had been murdered all the more
  poignant.

  Mr. Rawle sir, you are one fine actor.

  Eggplant    






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From hp at plum.cream.org  Sat Nov 26 01:15:35 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 01:15:35 +0000
Subject: GoF highlights (and OotP observations)
In-Reply-To: <dlo1rg+fm7r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051125154120.00afe860@plum.cream.org>

Saundra wrote:

>Favorite scenes: Too many to reiterate here. But heres some (not in
>any order):
>
>1. Harry entering the Weasley tent at QWC the look on his face and the 
>quote "I love magic!"

I wasn't so keen on that line the first time I saw the movie, and cringe at 
every subsequent viewing when it comes up. One of the things not only I, 
but several others, liked about PoA was that magic had become "normal": we 
didn't have a huge explosion (notably in the music, but also visually) 
almost every time something magical happened.

Harry's got used to being around magic and accepts it as part of his life. 
This movie undoes that achievement, not only with that line (completely 
OOC, IMO), but also every time we have a bit of magic, we have an explosion 
of music and cinematography to let us know something "special" is 
happening. I would've preferred the explosions to be reserved for the 
character moments, which as things are, get a little lost in the spectacle. 
The movie makers are going to have to play close attention to this  with 
the next two movies, because they are very much character pieces rather 
than a series of spectacular moments.

>8. The Maze (wasn't it creepy even sans creatures)

It was creepy, but it wasn't particularly *dangerous* in and of itself. 
Dulbleore's "the maze changes people" line was a bit strange as well, under 
the circumstances.

>12. The ending (the best ending since SS)

As I've said before, I wasn't all that keen on the scene. The last *shot* 
was fairly standard for this kind of movie, but the last conversation 
between the Trio was handled wrongly and (IMO) badly performed. Whilst I 
appreciate the idea behind taking out Hagrid's input and leaving the kids 
to realise what awaits them, I would've liked Draco and his posse to have 
been there, to underline that their enmity is now about the big picture, 
not personal dislike (bookending the scene at the QWC).

>My only fear is that this movie set a bar so high that the expectations 
>for next film will be impossible to meet. Because the 5th & 6th 
>books/movies are more drama acting vehicles than action flicks. Let me 
>stop worrying about what's next and enjoy what's here.

I just flicked through OotP and I feel that the only way to put the heart 
of the book onto the screen is to re-write the plot structure. And I don't 
see how the GoF ending can possibly lead into Angry!Harry, given that it's 
meant to be barely a few weeks later.

Movie!Harry is a little different from Book!Harry in a few subtle ways, 
implied rather than stated. For instance, several people have bemoaned the 
cutting of Harry's Accio practice from GoF. Obviously, the movies can't 
really spend too much of their precious running time dwelling on how 
average (if not sub-average!) Harry is at picking up new skills, but this 
means that the DA plotline in OotP will resonate slightly differently, as 
Movie!Harry doesn't have Book!Harry's issues with new spells - his doubts 
over teaching the DA can appear somewhat petulant.

In fact, whilst the DA *should* be the middle act of a five-act OotP 
adaptation, I suspect that it'll more like the romance angle in GoF, as an 
incidental element to the other events.

Several people (here and elsewhere) have commented that GoF is the most 
cinematic of the books, but this isn't just because it is punctuated by 
spectacular set pieces - as I've already noted,  it also has a structure 
that naturally divides itself into five acts. OotP is nowhere so clear, 
going in all kinds of directions. Not to mention that it's possibly the 
most episodic of the books, and episodic stories do not generally make good 
movies. Furthermore, GoF has the clearest central question: who's 
responsible for Harry's participation in the tournament (it's fairly 
obvious that Voldemort's behind it, so the final showdown is just a part of 
that). The "who/why/how dunnit" aspects of OotP are so varied and not 
really connected so it's difficult to keep track, and thus building a 
linear narrative is going to be tricky. We all have to be prepared for some 
*significant* trimming of various storylines to streamline the plot, never 
mind cut down the running order. Otherwise, Movie!OotP might well fall 
between stools and be little more than a mess with some occasional fancy 
visuals.

The four movies to date have already made it clear that it's difficult to 
show what's needed for the immediate story WHILE paving the ground for 
further developments, as testified to by several professional reviewers, 
who have expressed surprise at the introduction of certain sub-plot 
elements, which are only apparent to book readers. And the fact that the 
movies are being made one at a time rather than planned as a series (with 
the adaptors working with one hand tied behind their backs because 
apparently JKR is unwilling to give away the end-game, never mind its 
result) doesn't make life any easier.

OotP doesn't really stand up on its own as a story, and despite his stated 
reasons for bowing out (work on "Curious Incident..."), I suspect that 
Kloves is simply at a loss how to adapt it. Ultimately, for book readers, 
it's all about confirming the content of the first prophecy (which, 
incidentally, came as no great surprise to anyone, given that we had been 
mulling it over for three years and most people got the gist, if not the 
exact wording, right) - Movie!PoA included the second prophecy but didn't 
make enough of a deal about it to make people realise it was Important 
(with a capital "I").

On the other hand, the uninitiated viewer (i.e. non-book readers) should 
assume that every smallest scene is included in the movies for a Reason 
(capital "R") which means that the pacing suffers, because scenes or 
sequences have to be included which aren't necessarily germane to the 
immediate plot of the movie being watched. You can fill a book with all 
kinds of stuff that  isn't going to have a pay-off until two or three books 
down the line, but you can't really do that with a movie which has to tell 
a self-contained tale and shouldn't really concern itself  with what is to 
come (especially as the adapters don't know for a fact what will come).

So we have Dobby's introduction in CoS, paving the way for Winky (and, 
indeed, SPEW) in GoF (plus Kreacher, of course, in OotP) but there are no 
Elves in Movie!GoF at all, and IMO unless JKR is hiding something, OotP can 
be more easily adapted without Kreacher.

A common complaint has been cutting Harry's sick-bed scene at the end of 
GoF, largely (if I understand most comments correctly) either because 
people miss Snape chewing the scenery, or the touching scene with Molly. Of 
course, itm also sets up the "parting of the ways" between DD and Fudge, 
but IMO, DD and Fudge not seeing eye to eye (plus Crouch!Moody describing 
himself as a "Ministry malcontent") have been set up well enough for OotP 
to make sense introducing the whole storyline on its own, especially as 
that IS one of OotP's storylines, and doesn't actually belong to GoF.

One of the things I really enjoyed about GoF was the fact that so much of 
it was in the sub-text and in hints, rather than being explained (although 
I maintain that Priori Incantantem should have been properly explained - as 
it stands, it makes a mockery of the concept of duelling as it gives the 
impression that this is a common occurence). The only way to bring OotP 
successfully to the screen will be to do more of the same.

I realise that most people here won't have seen Peter Yates's main claim to 
fame, last year's "State of Play" TV series 
(http://www.bbcshop.com/invt/bbcdvd1493&source=583), but I would say that 
it does have similarities with OotP as it presented a whole series of 
apparently disparate storylines which eventually all came together, much as 
OotP does. The big difference is that Yates had (if memory serves) 6 x 1 
hour episodes on State of Play to tell it (note that these are *real* 1 
hour episodes, not the usual US TV "hours" which only last 40 minutes to 
allow for commercials).  The other big difference, as far as I was 
concerned, having religiously followed the series, was that the final 
denouement was a serious cop-out which demeaned the whole exercise, but 
that was a problem with the script, not the direction. And, to come full 
circle, OotP potentially has the same problem, ending rather 
anti-climactically (in terms of discovering who/why/how dunnit), and the 
big emotional payoff - Sirius's demise - suffering from a serious lack of 
under-development of the Harry-Sirius relationship, which is going to have 
to come pretty much from nowhere given the way GoF glossed over the issue.

--
Richard AKA GulPlum, who's been going on for far too long and doesn't have 
the energy to proof-read, so apologies for any lack of sense in the above



From hp at plum.cream.org  Sat Nov 26 01:45:40 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 01:45:40 +0000
Subject: Voldemort
In-Reply-To: <BFACA694.16E1%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>
References: <4.2.0.58.20051125150017.00b74460@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051126011804.00b25670@plum.cream.org>

At 16:31 25/11/2005 , Valerie Flowe wrote:

> > PS. What did Nagini say to Voldemort in the first scene? Was she speaking
> > parseltongue or English? I couldn't catch it both times I saw it.

It was Parseltongue (hence the need for Voldy to translate...). Do you need 
a transcript of what he said, as well? :-)

Besides, the end credits (which have been the topic of a separate thread) 
include a credit for "Parseltongue by Dr. Francis Nolan", and it doesn't 
appear at any other point in the film. (Although, considering Harry 
understands Parseltongue and we see the scenes from his dream persepective, 
it *should* have been comprehensible, but then CoS had the same dilemma 
when Riddle spoke to the Basilisk). :-)

Incidentally, to those who said in that other thread "if you want to know 
who did XYZ on the movie, look it up on IMDB", Dr. Nolan isn't listed, so 
the credits do have a valid function.

And on the subject of credits, a short anecdote: while 1977 was the the 
first year I can recall that Hollywood movies eschewed opening credits, 
Star Wars was far from the first modern commercial film not to have any 
(Apocalypse now, two years later, had no writing at all, not even the title).

A famous incident was one of Jean-Luc Godard's big films (I *think* it was 
Weekend, 1967) and the actors got into a major argument about who would get 
top billing, so instead of a credit sequence, Godard left the 
classification certificate (the "Visa de controle" number, equivalent to 
the the BBFC or MPAA rating, although it has different connotations I won't 
go into) up on screen for 2 minutes at the beginning of the film instead 
(normally, it appears in tiny, tiny print underneath the film's title or 
under the producer/director credit). At the end of the film, there is a 
single shot of all the names and jobs they did in tiny little print, just 
flashed up on the screen for a moment - apparently that was enough to 
satisfy the requirements of the various guilds at the time. When the movie 
was released internationally, Godard stipulated that the credit sequence 
should stay the same (with each country replacing the visa de controle with 
its own equivalent for the specified time).

Regrettably, nowadays the guilds wouldn't let a director get away with 
something like that, and certainly Hollywood studios wouldn't allow it either.

--
Richard, previously AKA GulPlum, credit nerd and proud of it, who only got 
around to making a note of Dr. Nolan's surname upon his fifth viewing of 
the end credits



From eggplant107 at hotmail.com  Sat Nov 26 05:57:32 2005
From: eggplant107 at hotmail.com (eggplant107)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 05:57:32 -0000
Subject: Future Casting
Message-ID: <dm8tgc+cu05@eGroups.com>

I think Bob Hoskins would be the perfect actor to play Slughorn in the
HBP movie. As for who to play Dolores Umbridge in the OOP movie that's
obvious, Danny DeVito would be absolutely perfect, he has every single
qualification for the job that I can think of except one, he's not
British.

Eggplant  







From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 26 08:11:19 2005
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 08:11:19 -0000
Subject: Neville and the Gillyweed
Message-ID: <dm95b7+vm9j@eGroups.com>

I'm not sure where I read about this controversy, but there seems to
be some 'believability' conflict with Neville giving Harry the
Gillyweed instead of Dobby in the most recent GoF movie. Chiefly that
conflict hinges around the very great unlikelihood of Neville having
the courage to steal from Snape's private stores.

The problem actually stems from book readers making assumptions about
the movie. Since Dobby stole the Gillyweed, we naturally assume
Neville did the same, but the actual movie doesn't support that.

Snape confronts Harry about stealing from his private stores AFTER
Harry has already used the Gillyweed in the second task. In that
scene, Snape says something to the effect, 'Gillyweed is
[unintelligable], but Broomslang and lacewing are...etc...polyjuice'.
While I couldn't make out exactly what Gillyweed is, it seems that it
is inconsequential or irrelevant since Snape's focus is on the
production of Polyjuice. 

Which I took to mean that Neville either gathered the Gillyweed from
some other source like Prof. Sprout, or it came from the students
communal potions stores. Gillyweed, from the perspective of the books,
seems unlikely to be in the students communal stores, but this is the
movie and they need quick and easy explanations. So, Snape seems to
imply that he is unconcerned about the Gillyweed.

I just saw the movie for the third time, and I watched and listened
very carefully for exactly how the movie dealt with the issue of the
Gillyweed. No where does it imply that Neville /stole/ the weed from
Snape. My sense is that the movie makers anticipated this conflict,
and used Snape's speech as a quick and easy way to gloss over it.

Just passing it along.

Steve.bboyminn

By the way, even my third viewing of the movie was an exciting and
powerful experience. 








From ladypensieve at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 26 08:19:42 2005
From: ladypensieve at yahoo.com (Kathy)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 08:19:42 -0000
Subject: movie length
In-Reply-To: <254.20d9b79.30b80c7c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <dm95qu+p5k6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, artsylynda at a... wrote:
>
> I sat through nearly all the credits, then finally gave up when  
they got to the ILM credits.There are many  movies that give 
> you fun little things at the end if you're patient.   > 
> 

Actually there was one funny line - it said "No dragons were hurt 
during the making of this film" or something like that...not much, and 
certainly not worth wading through 10 minutes or more of credits.

KathyO






From eggplant107 at hotmail.com  Sat Nov 26 14:18:18 2005
From: eggplant107 at hotmail.com (eggplant107)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:18:18 -0000
Subject: Neville and the Gillyweed
In-Reply-To: <dm95b7+vm9j@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dm9qra+4e5l@eGroups.com>

 "Steve" <bboyminn at y...> wrote:

> Neville either gathered the Gillyweed
> from some other source like Prof.
> Sprout, or it came from the students
> communal potions stores.

In the book Neville learns about Gillyweed from a book called "Magical
Water Plants of the Mediterranean", in the movie he says he learned
about it from a book called "Magical Water Plants of the Highland
Locks".  As Neville says this he is standing in a highland lock
gathering magical water plants. Then he looks at one particular plant
and says "Amazing!".  

Eggplant 







From hp at plum.cream.org  Sat Nov 26 16:43:58 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 16:43:58 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Neville and the Gillyweed
In-Reply-To: <dm95b7+vm9j@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051126161531.00b24c30@plum.cream.org>

At 08:11 26/11/2005 , Steve wrote:
>I'm not sure where I read about this controversy, but there seems to
>be some 'believability' conflict with Neville giving Harry the
>Gillyweed instead of Dobby in the most recent GoF movie. Chiefly that
>conflict hinges around the very great unlikelihood of Neville having
>the courage to steal from Snape's private stores.

Certainly not here, and I've not seen anyone questioning it in anything 
I've read anywhere.

>Snape confronts Harry about stealing from his private stores AFTER
>Harry has already used the Gillyweed in the second task. In that
>scene, Snape says something to the effect, 'Gillyweed is
>[unintelligable],

"Innocuous", not unintelligible at all. :-)

>but Broomslang and lacewing are...etc...polyjuice'.
>While I couldn't make out exactly what Gillyweed is, it seems that it
>is inconsequential or irrelevant since Snape's focus is on the
>production of Polyjuice.

The point being (mainly to observant non-book-readers) that Snape is a 
miserable suspicious git who'll accuse Harry of stealing his Gillyweed 
without checking his supplies if any is missing. As for Boomslang, etc, of 
course, the serial movie-viewer knows that Snape isn't a million miles off 
the mark considering events of a couple of years/movies ago...

>I just saw the movie for the third time, and I watched and listened
>very carefully for exactly how the movie dealt with the issue of the
>Gillyweed. No where does it imply that Neville /stole/ the weed from
>Snape. My sense is that the movie makers anticipated this conflict,
>and used Snape's speech as a quick and easy way to gloss over it.

The movie makes a (very good) change in that Neville's book is "Magical 
Water Plants of the Highland Lochs" rather than "... Mediterranean", and 
considering we see him earlier in the movie fishing stuff out of the lake, 
we can assume that this is where he got it (loch being Scottish for lake).

I must admit that after my first viewing, I was a bit incredulous about 
Neville stealing from Snape. I thought (or rather, assumed) that 
Crouch!Moody had told Harry outright that Neville had stolen it from Snape, 
or that Crouch!Moody had stolen it on Neville's behalf (book preconceptions 
in action), but on my second viewing, I paid attention to Moody's speech, 
and what he said was "... if I hadn't given him the book that led him 
straight to it". Now, this *could* be understood to mean "where he found 
out about Gillyweed", but I prefer to understand it as "where he found out 
where it grows".

--
Richard previously AKA GulPlum, who'll be seeing the movie for the sixth 
full time tomorrow, but with friends rather than alone for a change.



From myrrhmyrrh at netzero.net  Sat Nov 26 17:04:38 2005
From: myrrhmyrrh at netzero.net (myrrh321)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:04:38 -0000
Subject: GoF highlights (and OotP observations)
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20051125154120.00afe860@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <dma4j6+h2ri@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Richard <hp at p...> wrote:
>
> Saundra wrote:
> 
> >Favorite scenes: Too many to reiterate here. But heres some (not in
> >any order):
> >
> >1. Harry entering the Weasley tent at QWC the look on his face and 
the 
> >quote "I love magic!"
> 
> I wasn't so keen on that line the first time I saw the movie, and 
cringe at 
> every subsequent viewing when it comes up. One of the things not 
only I, 
> but several others, liked about PoA was that magic had 
become "normal": we 
> didn't have a huge explosion (notably in the music, but also 
visually) 
> almost every time something magical happened.
> 
> Harry's got used to being around magic and accepts it as part of 
his life. 
> This movie undoes that achievement, not only with that line 
(completely 
> OOC, IMO), 

Hello...gotta add my 2c

The line of  Harry saying " I love Magic" is not completely OOC. In 
the book, the corresponding line is: 'Harry bent down, ducked under 
the tent flap, and *felt his jaw drop.*' Yes, Harry is used to magic 
but he is not beyond being put in awe or suprised by it, and that is 
what that movie line conveyed and translated from the book line very 
nicely IMO. I like that the line was spoken instead of what could 
have been done, such as some goofy bug eyed mouth gaped mugging...

I didn't notice the soundtrack as much as I did POA's (which I loved) 
so I don't know if I agree that every magical moment was met with an 
explosion of music.(Time for another viewing!...lol) In POA, I think 
that Harry certainly was not so used to/passe about magic that he 
viewed the hippogriff, monster book of monsters,dementors, werewolf 
Lupin, the knight bus, time turner, the maurader's map etc, 
as 'normal'. Too, remember his line to Hermione after seeing his past 
self, before being told about the time turner "That's not Normal!"  
And the music introducing each of those elements was quite 
distinctive...and wonderful IMHO.  Come to think of it, I don't think 
I would like the books/movies so much if they ever started making 
magic seem "normal"...

End of my 2c transmission
DeNece






From artsylynda at aol.com  Sat Nov 26 18:45:37 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:45:37 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Digest Number 1332
Message-ID: <29c.410369.30ba0751@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 11/26/2005 8:14:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com writes:


Which I took to mean that Neville either gathered the Gillyweed  from
some other source like Prof. Sprout, or it came from the  students
communal potions stores. Gillyweed, from the perspective of the  books,
seems unlikely to be in the students communal stores, but this is  the
movie and they need quick and easy explanations. So, Snape seems  to
imply that he is unconcerned about the  Gillyweed.



I didn't think he was unconcerned about it.  I thought he was  lumping it in 
with other things that were missing from his stores (lace wing  flies, 
boomslang skin -- Polyjuice Potion ingredients).
 
What I'd like to know is what Harry meant when he said "Neville,  you're 
doing it again" when Neville was standing in the lake looking at weeds  and saying 
"Amazing!"  What's wrong with Neville being amazed at finding  plants?  What 
did I miss?  And then Harry's looking at the book Moody  gave Neville HIMSELF! 
 Nice clue, and Harry was too thick to know he was  holding the answer to his 
problem right there.  (Then again, this was  BEFORE he knew about the dragons 
or what the second task would require!   hmmmm. . .the moviemakers got things 
a bit out of order there!)  

Lynda AKA "Abraxan"

Read my Harry Potter fics here:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From artsylynda at aol.com  Sat Nov 26 18:40:56 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:40:56 EST
Subject: Snape's unintelligible line in the cupboard
Message-ID: <25b.230bf73.30ba0638@aol.com>

 
 
In a message dated 11/26/2005 8:14:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com writes:

Snape  says something to the effect, 'Gillyweed is
[unintelligable], 



he says it's "not your everyday garden herb" or something like  that.  

Lynda AKA "Abraxan"

Read my Harry Potter fics here:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From schumar1999 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 26 21:57:27 2005
From: schumar1999 at yahoo.com (Marianne S.)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 21:57:27 -0000
Subject: Future Casting
In-Reply-To: <dm8tgc+cu05@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dmalo7+umoi@eGroups.com>

Eggplant <eggplant107 at h...> wrote:
> I think Bob Hoskins would be the perfect actor to play Slughorn 
> in the HBP movie. As for who to play Dolores Umbridge in the OOP 
> movie that's obvious, Danny DeVito would be absolutely perfect,
> he has every single qualification for the job that I can think 
> of except one, he's not British.


I have long felt that Bob Hoskins would make a great Slughorn. The 
only British Actress I can think of thus far to do Dolores Umbridge 
justice would be perhaps Brenda Blethyn... she's great all around 
and could probably do that simpering hateable frog like woman well. 

Marianne S.






From gardengirlgarden at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 26 22:44:14 2005
From: gardengirlgarden at yahoo.com (Michelle Chandler)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:44:14 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Future Casting
References: <dmalo7+umoi@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <003f01c5f2da$ede7f040$6402a8c0@GARDENROOM>

I'm thinking Kathy Bates for Umbridge....

Michelle

"He who follows truth too closely at the heels might get kicked in the teeth."
-Sir Walter Ralegh 1552-1618
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Marianne S. 
  To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 4:57 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Future Casting


  Eggplant <eggplant107 at h...> wrote:
  > I think Bob Hoskins would be the perfect actor to play Slughorn 
  > in the HBP movie. As for who to play Dolores Umbridge in the OOP 
  > movie that's obvious, Danny DeVito would be absolutely perfect,
  > he has every single qualification for the job that I can think 
  > of except one, he's not British.


  I have long felt that Bob Hoskins would make a great Slughorn. The 
  only British Actress I can think of thus far to do Dolores Umbridge 
  justice would be perhaps Brenda Blethyn... she's great all around 
  and could probably do that simpering hateable frog like woman well. 

  Marianne S.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From schumar1999 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 27 05:00:24 2005
From: schumar1999 at yahoo.com (Marianne S.)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 05:00:24 -0000
Subject: Future Casting
In-Reply-To: <003f01c5f2da$ede7f040$6402a8c0@GARDENROOM>
Message-ID: <dmbeh8+okvi@eGroups.com>


--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Michelle Chandler" <gardengirlgarden at y...> wrote:
>
> I'm thinking Kathy Bates for Umbridge....
> 
> Michelle
> 


Marianne S: 
One problem here -- Kathy Bates is not British. :) 








From dianasdolls at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 27 05:40:27 2005
From: dianasdolls at yahoo.com (Diana)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 05:40:27 -0000
Subject: Future Casting
In-Reply-To: <003f01c5f2da$ede7f040$6402a8c0@GARDENROOM>
Message-ID: <dmbgsb+g9n8@eGroups.com>

> I'm thinking Kathy Bates for Umbridge....
> 
> Michelle
 

The only British Actress I can think of thus far to do Dolores 
Umbridge justice would be perhaps Brenda Blethyn
> 
>   Marianne S.
 

>From what I've heard, Imelda Staunton has been cast as Dolores 
Umbridge in OotP.  She's not listed in the credits for the movie on 
IMDB (yet) but Daniel Radcliffe told an interviewer (in an online 
interview) that she'd been cast in the role.  Since the movie begins 
filming in just three months I'd be shocked if Radcliffe had been 
given the wrong information on this.  She was in the same production 
of David Copperfield that Daniel Radcliffe had done in 1999.  She 
played Mrs. Micawber.  

I don't remember which interview it was, but I know the link to it 
was on www.danielradcliffe.co.uk.  

As a side note, I still find it highly amusing that Maggie Smith had 
played Daniel Radcliffe's aunt in David Copperfield and gave him a 
bath in the movie!  LOL  

Diana L.
dianasdolls






From vincentjh at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 27 05:46:54 2005
From: vincentjh at yahoo.com (vincentjh)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 05:46:54 -0000
Subject: GoF highlights (and OotP observations)
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20051125154120.00afe860@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <dmbh8e+k2q5@eGroups.com>

Saundra:
> >Harry entering the Weasley tent at QWC the look on his face and the 
> >quote "I love magic!"

Richard: 
> I wasn't so keen on that line the first time I saw the movie, and
cringe at 
> every subsequent viewing when it comes up. One of the things not
only I, 
> but several others, liked about PoA was that magic had become
"normal": we 
> didn't have a huge explosion (notably in the music, but also visually) 
> almost every time something magical happened.

VJ: 

I wouldn't say that magic has become "normal" per se but agree that
it's a bit odd for Harry to proclaim "I love magic." It's as if the
audience needed to be told to know that there's magic in the film. The
beauty of Cuaron's adaptation is that magic has blended into every
scene and, as a result, there is no need to remind the audience that
they're in a magical world. 

For all the good work that Newell has done, I just don't feel that GoF
can approach the magical quality, the style, and the fluency of PoA.
It lacks the kind of emotional pull and a clear purpose. (I am not
quite sure how to phrase this. It just seems to me that I had no idea
why I should be concerned about Harry's fate or where the story was
going.) Therefore, even though the scenes went by quickly, I could
feel the length of the film and was having a hard time sitting through
the last 1/3 of it. 

That said, Newell did an admirable job trimming down the story to the
bones and rebuilding it. The plot is clear and it focuses on *Harry
Potter* instead of drifting everywhere like PS & CoS did or becoming
Hermione Granger's Advanture. (I love Cuaron and do feel that,
cinematically, PoA is still the best HP films out there. But its
interpretation of the trio's dynamic is so wrong that the reader in me
simply cannot stand it.) Newell also did a great job in bringing out
the acting abilities of the young cast and giving the recurring
characters something to do. The "character moments" blend into the
storyline effortlessly so we actually got to know the characters while
watching the movie progress. 

The trio has stepped up more in this film. Radcliff and Grint can
really make a comic duo. Watson has some good scenes but still
overacts in other scenes. It seems to me that sometimes she did not
know on how to gradually build up her emotion. (For example, the DADA
class.) At times, I also wonder if Newell made it clear to her where
the scene might fit into the entire story. She seems to be always
under very intense emotion.

Richard:

> >12. The ending (the best ending since SS)
> 
> As I've said before, I wasn't all that keen on the scene. The last
*shot* 
> was fairly standard for this kind of movie, but the last conversation 
> between the Trio was handled wrongly and (IMO) badly performed.
Whilst I 
> appreciate the idea behind taking out Hagrid's input and leaving the
kids 
> to realise what awaits them, I would've liked Draco and his posse to
have 
> been there, to underline that their enmity is now about the big
picture, 
> not personal dislike (bookending the scene at the QWC).

VJ:
I also feel that it was badly performed. I can more or less understand
what Newell is trying to do there but it just didn't come across the
right way. IMHO, if the actors cannot convey the message, it's better
to change the script instead of forcing it.

Richard:
> I just flicked through OotP and I feel that the only way to put the
heart 
> of the book onto the screen is to re-write the plot structure. And I
don't 
> see how the GoF ending can possibly lead into Angry!Harry, given
that it's 
> meant to be barely a few weeks later.

VJ:
Well, I am not as concerned about continuity between movies in terms
of character development. After all, I don't see how wimpy Ron becomes
laid-back Ron in a few weeks' time but apparently he's gone through
dramatic personality change between PoA and GoF. :-) 

Richard:
> In fact, whilst the DA *should* be the middle act of a five-act OotP 
> adaptation, I suspect that it'll more like the romance angle in GoF,
as an 
> incidental element to the other events.

VJ:
It really depends on what you think is *the* story of OotP. (The novel
itself, as you have mentioned, is not very suitable for movie
adaptation. Too many things are jumbled together and too many new
characters are introduced. It reads more like a work that builds the
fundation for the next book, answers questions from previous books,
and sketches out the politics of the magical world instead of an
independent story with clear structure.) The purpose of the entire
story, as you have mentioned, is to establish Harry as the "chosen
one" (chosen by Voldmort, not by fate). But that alone is not enough
to fill the screen time. So the question is how to make the story
progress toward that end. If, say, the filmmakers decide to focus on
Harry's transition into adulthood, growing independence, and emergence
as a worthy rival of Voldmort, I can see how DA can play a larger part
in the movie. I can also see OotP as the "middle act" of the entire
series where the filmmakers build up the supporting cast for Harry.
However, if this is the direction where OotP is going, the movie
audiences are going to be mighty disappointed about HBP when they find
out Harry and Co. are back at school instead of heading to the battle
field.... 

VJ

PS. It's getting late here and I am hopeless when it comes to
spelling. Please forgive my spelling errors, typos..etc.






From dianasdolls at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 27 05:45:38 2005
From: dianasdolls at yahoo.com (Diana)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 05:45:38 -0000
Subject: Favorite scene amongst all four movies?
Message-ID: <dmbh62+4ffo@eGroups.com>

My husband and I were talking about this earlier today and it made me 
wonder what others would choose, so here's the question.

What is your favorite scene amongst all four movies.  If you can't 
narrow it down to just one scene from all of the four movies, then 
favorite scene per movie is fine.

I'm still deliberating about my favorite scene as there's just too 
many to choose from!  Anyone have their's picked out already?

Diana L.







From gardengirlgarden at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 27 05:50:35 2005
From: gardengirlgarden at yahoo.com (Michelle Chandler)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 00:50:35 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Future Casting
References: <dmbeh8+okvi@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <01c401c5f316$7d3b1020$6402a8c0@GARDENROOM>

I know, but after Misery, she'd just be too perfect as creepy old Umbridge....

Michelle

"He who follows truth too closely at the heels might get kicked in the teeth."
-Sir Walter Ralegh 1552-1618
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Marianne S. 
  To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 12:00 AM
  Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Future Casting



  --- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Michelle Chandler" <gardengirlgarden at y...> wrote:
  >
  > I'm thinking Kathy Bates for Umbridge....
  > 
  > Michelle
  > 


  Marianne S: 
  One problem here -- Kathy Bates is not British. :) 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From paulined at optushome.com.au  Sun Nov 27 06:59:53 2005
From: paulined at optushome.com.au (Pauline)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:59:53 +1100
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Future Casting
In-Reply-To: <dmbeh8+okvi@eGroups.com>
References: <003f01c5f2da$ede7f040$6402a8c0@GARDENROOM>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20051127174916.0216d058@mail.optushome.com.au>


> > I'm thinking Kathy Bates for Umbridge....
> >
> > Michelle
>
>Marianne S:
>One problem here -- Kathy Bates is not British. :)

Exactly.   I thought they had already cast Imelda Staunton.  I think she is 
a fantastic choice.  Wasn't she that horrible woman married to Hugh Laurie 
in Sense and Sensibility?  So plenty of practice with Snape, Sprout, Fudge 
and Trelawney already.

Here you go: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001767/
and a pic, showing suitable height for the role
http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0383694/Ss/0383694/veradrake_2643.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Staunton,%20Imelda

Love Pauline


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 27 14:26:03 2005
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora67)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:26:03 -0000
Subject: More future casting
Message-ID: <dmcflr+is0h@eGroups.com>

As long as we are on the subject of casting, has anyone read this 
article?  I found it over at Mugglenet.   It's very funny, and has 
some really good ideas as who to cast for OotP.  

http://www.cinematical.com/2005/11/20/cinematical-seven-brits-to-cast-
in-harry-potter/

If you have already seen this, I apologize!

Alora :)







From rdas at facstaff.wisc.edu  Sun Nov 27 15:45:57 2005
From: rdas at facstaff.wisc.edu (susanbones2003)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 15:45:57 -0000
Subject: A couple of answers
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20051125150017.00b74460@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <dmckbl+9fk5@eGroups.com>

Gulplum,
This is slightly off-topic, (please list elves forgive me) but is there 
a web site that does what you do, when you compare dvd versions of 
Harry Potter for us so very nicely? I am now wanting to buy a specific 
dvd and several sites have different versions. How does one know what's 
what?
Thanks,
JenD






From schumar1999 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 27 16:00:04 2005
From: schumar1999 at yahoo.com (Marianne S.)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 16:00:04 -0000
Subject: Future Casting
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20051127174916.0216d058@mail.optushome.com.au>
Message-ID: <dmcl64+ocvm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Pauline <paulined at o...> wrote:
 
> Exactly.   I thought they had already cast Imelda Staunton.  I think she is 
> a fantastic choice.  Wasn't she that horrible woman married to Hugh Laurie 
> in Sense and Sensibility?  So plenty of practice with Snape, Sprout, Fudge 
> and Trelawney already.
> 
> Here you go: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001767/
> and a pic, showing suitable height for the role
> http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0383694/Ss/0383694/veradrake_2643.jpg?
path=pgallery&path_key=Staunton,%20Imelda
> 
> Love Pauline

Marianne S: 

Now that I see the name Imelda Staunton, I think she IS a perfect choice. I not
only remember her as Mrs. Palmer in Sense and Sensibility (love that you
pointed out the connection to the actors) but I also remember her in Shakespeare
In Love, and more recently Vera Drake, in which she was outstanding. I look 
forward to loving hating her in OotP. I'd still like to see Brenda Blethyn do 
some kind of role though... after seeing her in P&P, maybe she could be a Mrs.
Figg or something. 







From artsylynda at aol.com  Sun Nov 27 17:08:23 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 12:08:23 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Neville and Gillyweed
Message-ID: <1f1.47e03d01.30bb4207@aol.com>

 
 
In a message dated 11/27/2005 6:05:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com writes:


In  the book Neville learns about Gillyweed from a book called "Magical
Water  Plants of the Mediterranean", in the movie he says he learned
about it from  a book called "Magical Water Plants of the Highland
Locks".  As  Neville says this he is standing in a highland lock
gathering magical water  plants. Then he looks at one particular plant
and says "Amazing!".   

Eggplant 


"The Highland Lochs"???  I didn't hear that -- Harry must have  said it, 
right?  I'll have to listen for that next time I see it.   That would explain the 
"amazing" comment Neville made, but I still don't see why  Harry said "You're 
doing it again, Neville" to which Neville replied,  "Sorry."  I suppose his 
enthusiasm was just annoying Harry???  

Lynda AKA "Abraxan"

Read my Harry Potter fics here:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From G3_Princess at MailCity.com  Sun Nov 27 17:19:16 2005
From: G3_Princess at MailCity.com (rowena_grunnionffitch)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:19:16 -0000
Subject: GoF Experience
In-Reply-To: <BFAC9DCD.16DF%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <dmcpqk+4qjn@eGroups.com>

  Personally I waited till yesterday to see GOF for the first time, I 
don't stay up past midnight for nothing!

  I thought they did a fine job of condensing the key plotline into a
reasonable length for a movie. Of course sub-plots fell like flies to 
the wayside but they *did* include the 'incredible bouncing ferret 
scene' which I loved.

  Mad-eye doesn't look the way I imagined him, but I'm used to that. 
Poor Ron, the Third Doctor wouldn't have worn those robes! And 
Hermione did indeed look beautiful and Ron's jealously was palpable.






From hp at plum.cream.org  Sun Nov 27 18:10:51 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:10:51 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Neville and Gillyweed
In-Reply-To: <1f1.47e03d01.30bb4207@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051127180640.00b62740@plum.cream.org>

At 17:08 27/11/2005 , artsylynda at aol.com wrote:

>"The Highland Lochs"???  I didn't hear that -- Harry must have  said it,
>right?  I'll have to listen for that next time I see it.   That would 
>explain the
>"amazing" comment Neville made, but I still don't see why  Harry said "You're
>doing it again, Neville" to which Neville replied,  "Sorry."  I suppose his
>enthusiasm was just annoying Harry???

How about because they've been sitting at the lakeside for a while, and 
that the plant we see Neville pulling out of the water isn't the first? Or 
perhaps because, having spent three years in each others' company, Harry 
knows that Neville has a habit of calling plants "amazing"?

BTW, yes, Harry reads the title from the book's cover during that scene.





From heathwitch at heathwitch.com  Sun Nov 27 14:29:15 2005
From: heathwitch at heathwitch.com (Heathwitch)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:29:15 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Future Casting
In-Reply-To: <dmbgsb+g9n8@eGroups.com>
References: <003f01c5f2da$ede7f040$6402a8c0@GARDENROOM>
 <dmbgsb+g9n8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20051127142721.04664a50@vilya.visn.co.uk>

Hi there,

I'm a long-time (several year) lurker; I hope folks don't mind me 
popping my head up now.

At 05:40 27/11/2005, Marianne S wrote:
>The only British Actress I can think of thus far to do Dolores
>Umbridge justice would be perhaps Brenda Blethyn

I was talking about this with a friend of mine the other day. The 
idea we came upon was that someone who could do Umbridge, in a 
delightfully evil way, would be Dame Judi Dench ;-)

Best --

Heather

--
Heathwitch
http://www.heathwitch.com
mailto:heathwitch at heathwitch.com

Also at: http://www.heatherkward.com






From darkchylde_18 at hotmail.com  Sun Nov 27 18:51:34 2005
From: darkchylde_18 at hotmail.com (darkchylde_18)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:51:34 -0000
Subject: GOF Review
In-Reply-To: <20051116185457.95206.qmail@web53213.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dmcv7m+ekqd@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Sherry Garfio <sgarfio at y...> 
wrote:
>
> --- little_blue_pupooh <little_blue_pupooh at y...> wrote:
> 
> > 6.	There was no mention of who won and what happened to the 
> > money afterwards
> 
> Oooh, that one's going to be difficult to explain in a later film.  
I assume
> the twins are going to be in full production mode in OotP as they 
were in the
> book.  Their inventions aren't much more than a fun diversion in 
OotP and will
> probably be downplayed or ignored in the film, but they do become 
important in
> HBP.  I suppose Harry could give them a startup loan/grant from his 
own funds,
> with no need to clarify that his funds were increased by winning the
> tournament, although I don't know where in the story that would 
occur since it
> didn't happen in this film.  My guess is they'll just ignore the 
entrepreneur
> subplot altogether and leave the twins as undeveloped comic 
relief.  Yet
> another example of why the books are better.  The consequences of 
Harry giving
> his winnings to the twins are too complex for these films, and we 
don't even
> know yet where they're going to lead in the end.



The money won't be difficult to explain at all.  The twins were 
taking bets through out the tournament.  Betting on Harry of course.  
I think you're right however, and they'll ignore the twins and 
Weasley's Wizard Wheezes (sp?).  I think they'll become more 
important in the last book.  (only speculation, sorry)

-Darkchylde








From joj at rochester.rr.com  Sun Nov 27 19:23:43 2005
From: joj at rochester.rr.com (joj)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:23:43 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Favorite scene amongst all four movies?
References: <dmbh62+4ffo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001301c5f388$149afa90$4a36cc45@bumbargey3ogmz>



> What is your favorite scene amongst all four movies.  If you can't
> narrow it down to just one scene from all of the four movies, then
> favorite scene per movie is fine.
>
>
> Diana L.


SS- The chess scene
CoS- Harry getting the best of Lucius with the sock
PoA-Harry saving himself from the Dementors
GoF-Harry deciding to come out from behind the gravestone and face Voldemort
like a man

Joj




From thekrenz at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 27 21:20:15 2005
From: thekrenz at yahoo.com (thekrenz)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:20:15 -0000
Subject: Favorite scene amongst all four movies?
In-Reply-To: <dmbh62+4ffo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dmd7uf+2cvb@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Diana" <dianasdolls at y...> wrote:

> What is your favorite scene amongst all four movies.  If you can't 
> narrow it down to just one scene from all of the four movies, then 
> favorite scene per movie is fine.

> Diana L.


I hesitate to admit this is my favorite scene of all the movies
because so many on these lists have said the hate it, but here goes....
I absolutely love the scene in PoA with Harry riding Buckbeak over the
lake.  I think it screams of Harry's love of flying and his desire to
be free of all the awful things that have occured in his life.  The
first time I saw PoA in the theater, I was a little let down, except
for that scene.  It gave me chills.  I have since bought the
soundtrack for PoA, and each time I get to that portion of the music I
get chills yet again.

So that takes care of POA.  Now for the other 3:

SS-I would have to say when Harry and Ron meet on the Hogwart's
Express.  Ron is one of my favorite characters in both book and movie,
and I love the friendship between the two of them.

CoS-My least favorite of the movies, so this is tough...hm.. I'll go
with the "practice duel" between Snape and Lockhart. Snape is so
nasty, but played so brilliantly by Alan Rickman!

GoF-I really enjoyed the First Task.  Although it strayed far away
from the book, the effect of the Hungarian Horntail grappling along
the roof of the tower was terrifying!  I loved it.

Ok, so there is my few knuts worth.
Cyndi 






From gardengirlgarden at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 27 23:39:20 2005
From: gardengirlgarden at yahoo.com (Michelle Chandler)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:39:20 -0500
Subject: Call for help!
Message-ID: <044b01c5f3ab$cb448630$6402a8c0@GARDENROOM>

Friends,

If any of you are in New Jersey, please email me off list - gardengirlgarden at yahoo.com. There is a sister Potterphile who is in need, and I'm too far from NJ to scope out resources for her.

Thanks in advance,
Michelle

"He who follows truth too closely at the heels might get kicked in the teeth."
-Sir Walter Ralegh 1552-1618

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From bob.oliver at cox.net  Sun Nov 27 19:35:11 2005
From: bob.oliver at cox.net (lupinlore)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 19:35:11 -0000
Subject: Inconsistency and Incoherence/GOF!Movie!DD/JKR's input to the script
Message-ID: <dmd1pf+qri5@eGroups.com>

I posted some of these thoughts over on HPfGU, but they apply very 
much to GoF as well, so I thought I'd put it here.

Some of us have talked about the problem of the "decision" scene in 
GoF and the light it throws on Dumbledore, particularly with regard 
to his actions and attitudes in the rest of the movie.  I think the 
problem is one of CONSISTENCY and COHERENCE. Now, these
are related things, but not identical things. Consistency is the
tendency of a character (or a real person, for that matter) to react
in similar ways to similar situations, or in the same way to the same
situation whenever it is presented. It is also a measure of how much
a character's behavior matches what we have been assured to be that
character's personality. Coherence is a basic question of whether or
not a character is believable, i.e. if that character "makes sense"
as a real person on some quasi-intuitive level. Both of these
issues come into play with Harry Potter characters, particularly the
adults, and particularly, probably, Dumbledore.

Now, like I say, consistency and coherence are not the same thing,
or, more exactly, an INCONSISTENT character is not the same as an
INCOHERENT character. The reason for this is that humans are, in
fact, somewhat inconsistent creatures. We react differently to
similar situations, because of any number of factors. We often behave
in ways that are at least slightly at variance with what appears to
be our general personality patterns. I guess a good test is the "real
person test." Would this behavior be believable, more or less, for a
real person?

But, being INCONSISTENT, even though it is not the same as being
INCOHERENT, is related to that state. That is, even though humans
aren't totally consistent in any way, they do tend to be largely
consistent, especially if they are reacting honestly. If a person is
wildly inconsistent in dealing with situations or in their
presentation, or in the way their behavior fits with their supposed
personality, the immediate assumption they get from most observers is
that they are being dishonest and/or manipulative. If we are asked
to accept very inconsistent behavior as being honest, then the
character moves into incoherence.

Here is where JKR and/or the Kloves get into trouble with a lot of 
the adults, and most particularly with Dumbledore.  We have a 
Dumbledore who acts in the decision scene at odds with how he 
professes in the rest of the film to feel about Harry, and at 
somewhat odds with the character as we've been led to view him.   
Now, that, I think is what has led to a lot of Manipulative!
Dumbledore speculation on this and other issues, since I think a very 
natural reaction to that kind of inconsistency is to preserve 
coherence of the character by assuming dishonesty and manipulative 
behavior.  Indeed, unlike the case with JKR's book, we are flat out 
invited to believe that by Kloves' screenplay.

The problem is very difficult.  We have a Dumbledore in  
the "decision" scene (and to an extent in his final conversation with 
Harry) who seems to deliberately decide to leave Harry in the 
tournament as bait.  That runs against the picture we've been given 
of Dumbledore.  It also runs against Dumbledore's seeming feelings 
for Harry.  Finally, it cuts across some of the other speeches 
Dumbledore gives in the movie - most especially the scene where he 
tries to browbeat Fudge into calling off the tournament.  Why?  If it 
has become too dangerous, and he IS able to withdraw Harry and 
Cedric, why does he not do so?  If he isn't able to withdraw Harry 
and Cedric because of a magical contract, why on earth doesn't he 
just say that in the "decision" scene?

Given that inconsistency, the natural reaction is to preserve the
coherence of his character by postulating that he is sometimes being
dishonest and manipulative. This is, I think, an instinctive
application of the "real person" standard. That is, if faced with
this behavior in a real person, almost all of us would immediately
assume we are dealing with manipulative and dishonest policies.  But 
who is he trying to manipulate?  Why is he trying to browbeat Fudge?  
Fudge isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, but he can easily find out 
the actual standing of the situation from the experts at the 
Ministry.  If Dumbledore could withdraw Harry (i.e. if it is his 
decision and not a magical contract), Fudge could simply inform him 
of that fact.  Are we to infer that "magically binding contract" is 
actually "legally binding contract?"  Is Dumbledore trying to 
avoid "legal" or "political" problems with the ministry?  Are we 
being set up for the problems in OOTP by being given a scene where it 
is inferred that Dumbledore's power to defy the ministry's rulings is 
much more limited than Minerva supposes?  But if that is the case, 
why didn't DD just say THAT?  Why not say "You heard Barty Crouch's 
ruling, Minerva.  Distasteful as it is, I have no power to defy a 
ministry decision."  In fact, he DID say something of the sort but 
then proceeded to muddy the waters by implying that he COULD have 
defied the ministry the way Minerva wanted.  Is he trying to 
manipulate Minerva?  Is he, to give it a real conspiracy edge, aware 
that Harry is listening at the door to his conversation with Fudge 
and wants to manipulate Harry is some way?  Why?

To add further mud to the waters, we are of course dealing with 
Kloves' interpretation of the book, and we have no real idea how much 
input JKR has into the process.  My own sense has been up to now that 
she doesn't have all that much input, but we know she has told 
Rickman something about Snape while at the same time refusing to give 
away the final outcome to either Kloves or any of the directors.  
Which of course leaves them crippled in certain areas, especially in 
knowing how to deal with Snape (which is, I think, a large reason his 
part in the last two movies has been drained of some of its most 
powerful scenes -- not knowing where Snape will come out, and with 
JKR refusing to help, a director might well think it foolish to 
attempt staging either Snape's final scene from PoA or his final 
scene from GoF).

Perhaps, however, she DID have some major input into the script.  If 
so, this raises some interesting questions, and would explain part of 
the inconsistencies in GoF!Movie!Dumbledore.  We would basically have 
a screenplay with three sets of fingerprints -- Kloves, JKR, and 
Newell (and I'm assuming that Newell follows the standard director's 
policy of having heavy input into the screenwriting process, which I 
would bet good money is a safe assumption). Perhaps how DD comes out 
in a given scene is directly related to whose fingerprints that scene 
bears.  One interesting possibility is to remember that the final 
draft of the screenplay would have been worked out while JKR was 
making crucial decisions about HBP.  Many people, me included, have 
pointed out that parts of HBP seemed written for the express purpose 
of driving home DD's feelings for/about/concerning Harry.  I'm just 
speculating here, but I think it's possible JKR might have wanted to 
use the GoF movie to help make the same point, thus the parts of the 
screenplay where DD goes out of his way to act 
concerned/affectionate/fearful over Harry might be those parts most 
heavily coated with JKR's fingerprints.  

However, and here, at last, is the rub.  If we do have three authors 
at work, then maybe DD is pulled different ways by three different 
ideas about what is needed in the GoF movie.  However, under pressure 
of time constraints and partially incompatible demands, and faced 
with the fact that JKR, at least, does, bless her heart, have some 
problems with consistency, editing, and detail anyway, the poor 
character of DD gets pulled in very different directions, or to put 
it more starkly is serving different masters in different scenes.  If 
no man can serve two masters, no character can serve three.  And 
there, faced with such wild inconsistency, the character bids 
strongly to become incoherent.


Lupinlore










From hp at plum.cream.org  Sun Nov 27 23:45:28 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 23:45:28 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] More future casting
In-Reply-To: <dmcflr+is0h@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051127181133.00b1a420@plum.cream.org>

At 14:26 27/11/2005 , alora67 wrote:

>As long as we are on the subject of casting, has anyone read this
>article?  I found it over at Mugglenet.   It's very funny, and has
>some really good ideas as who to cast for OotP.
>
>http://www.cinematical.com/2005/11/20/cinematical-seven-brits-to-cast-in-ha 
>rry-potter/

I don't normally participate in fantasy casting, but I am absolutely 
astonished at the lack of imagination shown by some of the participants in 
that thread.

I don't have to look further than today's British TV schedules to find a 
multitude of major names not jet associated with the HP bandwagon - heck, 
forget today's schedules, let's talk *ONLY* about the BBC Bleak House which 
I'm watching with one eye as I type. I won't bother citing names, as 
there's a fairly complete run-down of the cast on the BBC website:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/bleakhouse/characters_actors.shtml

I know there are those here who want the entire cast of Sense and 
Sensibility and/or the BBC Great Expectations to appear in the HP movies, 
but at present, only one of the Bleak House cast has made a showing. :-)

Of the people mentioned on the original link, though, I think that one of 
the suggestions is completely inspired: Kris Marshall for one of the older 
Weasley sons (OK, so he's blond rather than ginger, but nobody ever 
realised that the Phelps twins had their hair dyed until the GoF premiere...).

The link also mentions Colin Salmon (most famous for the Brosnan Bond 
films), for Kingsley Shacklebolt, but he's about a decade too young (he'd 
be fine if the MWPP generation hadn't been cast so old). When reading the 
book, I thought about Tom Warrington, who has a great screen presence (and 
is in a similar age range to the other main adult parts).

For those who do enjoy fantasy casting, I would remind you that Slughorn 
presents a problem, because he has to be believable both in the "present" 
as an old, fat guy, and in the "past" as his 50 years younger self, and has 
major scenes in both periods (not to mention, he has to be instantly 
recognisable as the same character).

--
Richard AKA GulPlum, who wrote the above nearly 5 hours ago but went off to 
do something else leaving the message unsent



From poppytheelf at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 28 00:24:22 2005
From: poppytheelf at hotmail.com (Phyllis)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 00:24:22 -0000
Subject: My GoF Review
Message-ID: <dmdinm+lftc@eGroups.com>

I finally saw the GoF movie for the first time today and have to 
completely agree with everyone who has complained about the pace.  I 
got the impression that the moviemakers felt compelled to squeeze 
almost the entirety of the 600+ page book into two and a half hours, 
and the whole thing felt extremely rushed as a result.  I also 
thought that if I hadn't read the book, I would have been lost (my 
son, who hasn't read the book, was asking me basic questions 
afterward such as "Who was the old man in the beginning?" and "Why 
did the wands connect?"). 

Much like the Shrieking Shack scene in PoA, I thought the way they 
rushed the scene where the fake Moody turns back into Barty Jr., and 
the short Harry-Dumbledore debriefing scene at the end wound up 
leaving out a lot of crucial information - where was the look of 
triumph?  Where was Fawkes?  Do non-readers remember that Voldemort 
is named Tom Riddle after his father?  Why weren't we told that the  
house in Harry's "dream" was the Riddle House?  Why didn't they 
explain that the wands were twins and that's why they connected?  Why 
have Barty Jr. in the Riddle House in the beginning and not explain 
how he escaped from Azkaban (especially after taking the time to 
throw a potion that was never stated to be Veritaserum down his 
throat)?  Why bother to show Hagrid and Maxime talking intimately if 
we're not going to learn they're both part-giants?  Why were there no 
obstacles in the maze?  And on, and on ...  yet they spent screen 
time that could have been used to explain some of the basics by 
adding that scene about learning to dance (which, while neat to see 
that it was filmed in the Bodlein Library's Divinity School in Oxford 
that I visited this past summer, wasn't necessary).  And all of the 
time that was wasted while Harry chased the dragon - yuck!  Why not 
spend some of that showing how Harry isn't Superman and has to 
struggle to learn how to use the summoning charm. 
 
I also agree that the actor who played Amos Diggory was excellent.  I 
thought they way they showed Amos' reaction to Cedric's death was 
very moving, and I actually liked that portrayal better than the 
chaos in the book when Harry returns with Cedric's body, although I 
think the book's version is probably more realistic that having the 
students stand in silence while Amos cries. 

I loved the QWC stadium (it truly looked as enormous as it was 
supposed to), but after all the time spent getting them there, they 
didn't show any of the game! And then it's never explained why the 
Hogwarts students won't be playing Quidditch that year.  And why 
couldn't Krum have talked more?  Did Hermione really need to intimate 
that she and Krum spend all of their time in non-verbal pursuits?

I also liked the way Ralph Fiennes portrayed Voldemort, although his 
eyes needed to be red and I would have preferred to see him hooded 
rather than bald (the slit-like nostrils were very well done, 
though).  Harry needed to be gagged in the graveyard scene, though, 
and the way it was rushed left a lot of the dramatic tension out of 
the scene.  It all happened so fast, it wasn't at all clear to me 
that the "shades" of Voldemort's past victims were actually emerging 
from his wand - they just seemed to appear from nowhere.  And why, oh 
why, does Harry have to say "Have it your way" - that line reminded 
me of the old Burger King commercials!  

To me, the fundamental flaw with all of the films is that they fail 
to tell the story from Harry's perspective.  I think this could be 
easily done - show some scenes from Harry's eyes; "hear" him thinking 
what he's feeling, etc.  Showing Harry's perspective - his fears and 
the way in which he decides how to deal with his fears - would have 
helped to create more tension during the 3 tasks and in the graveyard 
scene, IMO.

I still loved the movie, though.  And I didn't mind missing the 
elves, the skrewts or Bagman.

Just my two knuts :)

~Phyllis







From gardengirlgarden at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 28 00:27:17 2005
From: gardengirlgarden at yahoo.com (Michelle Chandler)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 19:27:17 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: GOF Review
References: <dmcv7m+ekqd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <04e901c5f3b2$7dd77e50$6402a8c0@GARDENROOM>

If they leave out the portable swamp in OotP, I'll demand my money back! That's too perfect to skip!!!

Michelle, crossing fingers hopefully

"He who follows truth too closely at the heels might get kicked in the teeth."
-Sir Walter Ralegh 1552-1618
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: darkchylde_18 

  The money won't be difficult to explain at all.  The twins were 
  taking bets through out the tournament.  Betting on Harry of course.  
  I think you're right however, and they'll ignore the twins and 
  Weasley's Wizard Wheezes (sp?).  I think they'll become more 
  important in the last book.  (only speculation, sorry)

  -Darkchylde

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From gardengirlgarden at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 28 00:30:22 2005
From: gardengirlgarden at yahoo.com (Michelle Chandler)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 19:30:22 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Future Casting
References: <003f01c5f2da$ede7f040$6402a8c0@GARDENROOM> <dmbgsb+g9n8@eGroups.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20051127142721.04664a50@vilya.visn.co.uk>
Message-ID: <051101c5f3b2$ec9f7a90$6402a8c0@GARDENROOM>

OOH, she can be so scary! That's fantastic!!!

Michelle

"He who follows truth too closely at the heels might get kicked in the teeth."
-Sir Walter Ralegh 1552-1618
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Heathwitch 

  I was talking about this with a friend of mine the other day. The 
  idea we came upon was that someone who could do Umbridge, in a 
  delightfully evil way, would be Dame Judi Dench ;-)

  Best --

  Heather

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From hp at plum.cream.org  Mon Nov 28 00:43:16 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 00:43:16 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Inconsistency and
  Incoherence/GOF!Movie!DD/JKR's input to the script
In-Reply-To: <dmd1pf+qri5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051128001126.00b02260@plum.cream.org>

Just a few short comments on an interesting post...

At 19:35 27/11/2005 , lupinlore wrote:

>Given that inconsistency, the natural reaction is to preserve the
>coherence of his character by postulating that he is sometimes being
>dishonest and manipulative.

Except DD is not only a fictional character, he's a mythic one (or, at 
least, in a mythic/archetypal role). JKR earned more than a few guffaws 
when she said with some degree of naive pride that she was "subverting" the 
(fantasy) genre, so perhaps DD's mythic status is one of the conventions 
she's trying to subvert? :-)

>Are we to infer that "magically binding contract" is actually "legally 
>binding contract?"  Is Dumbledore trying to avoid "legal" or "political" 
>problems with the ministry?

I suspect that JKR's (inasmuch as it's a term taken from the book, rather 
than a Kloves invention) intent in using that term is to imply that it is 
much, much more than a "legal" contract: after all, legal contracts are 
just a matter of convention and agreement (by very definition!). My feeling 
has always been that the consequences of braking a "magical" pact are 
stronger and deeper than everyday laws, and not only with regard to the 
GoF, as we have concepts like "*unbreakable* vows", "*unforgivable* 
curses", "magic at its very deepest" (among others).

Dumbledore seems to be the one character who seems to grasp the 
implications of the "old, deep, magic" more than most, and his choices at 
the moment of the GOF's decision are partially determined by that. I 
do  agree that the script muddies the water a bit, but I suspect that the 
*intention* of the various authors of the scene was along those lines.

>Perhaps, however, she DID have some major input into the script.  If
>so, this raises some interesting questions, and would explain part of
>the inconsistencies in GoF!Movie!Dumbledore.  We would basically have
>a screenplay with three sets of fingerprints -- Kloves, JKR, and
>Newell <snip>.

You're forgetting another very important set of fingerprints: that of the 
actor. Michael Gambon, by his own admission, has not read the books, and 
expects the script to convey everything he needs to know (with, of course, 
a little input from the director - whose job, after all, is to *direct*!). 
:-) To my knowledge, neither Gambon nor Harris had any direct contact with JKR.

I think I also caught a production comment somewhere that another 
controversial moment, DD grabbing Harry's shoulders during that same scene, 
was Gambon's idea, and Newell let him run with it. from what I've seen, 
more electronic ink has been generated in the HP fandom because of that one 
act than any other aspect of the movie. :-)

The fact that the movie-going public has had two very, very different 
"kinds" of Dumbledore from two very different actors (not to mention three 
directors) has more to do with any conceived instability/inconsistency than 
anything else anyway, so my own view is not to worry about it, and 
certainly not to try to draw any conclusions of Book!Dumbledore's 
motivations from his movie counterpart - in particular because the movies 
can at best sketch the character (and the world he inhabits), compared to 
what the book can do. 



From rdas at facstaff.wisc.edu  Mon Nov 28 02:06:46 2005
From: rdas at facstaff.wisc.edu (susanbones2003)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 02:06:46 -0000
Subject: Inconsistency and Incoherence/GOF!Movie!DD/JKR's input to the script
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20051128001126.00b02260@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <dmdonm+nlo4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Richard <hp at p...> 
> 
> You're forgetting another very important set of fingerprints: that 
of the 
> actor. Michael Gambon, by his own admission, has not read the 
books, and 
> expects the script to convey everything he needs to know (with, of 
course, 
> a little input from the director - whose job, after all, is to 
*direct*!). 
> :-) To my knowledge, neither Gambon nor Harris had any direct 
contact with JKR.
> 
> I think I also caught a production comment somewhere that another 
> controversial moment, DD grabbing Harry's shoulders during that 
same scene, 
> was Gambon's idea, and Newell let him run with it. from what I've 
seen, 
> more electronic ink has been generated in the HP fandom because of 
that one 
> act than any other aspect of the movie. :-)
> 
> The fact that the movie-going public has had two very, very 
different 
> "kinds" of Dumbledore from two very different actors (not to 
mention three 
> directors) has more to do with any conceived 
instability/inconsistency than 
> anything else anyway, so my own view is not to worry about it, and 
> certainly not to try to draw any conclusions of Book!Dumbledore's 
> motivations from his movie counterpart - in particular because the 
movies 
> can at best sketch the character (and the world he inhabits), 
compared to 
> what the book can do.

Richard,
By implication you bring up a very, perhaps, depressing idea, that  
the film versions of Harry Potter can only be crude approximations 
of JKR's books and that to expect them to be more is unrealistic. Is 
that a fair statement?
JenD 
>







From hp at plum.cream.org  Mon Nov 28 02:10:01 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 02:10:01 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Phyllis's GoF Review
In-Reply-To: <dmdinm+lftc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051128005259.00b077d0@plum.cream.org>

At 00:24 28/11/2005 , Phyllis wrote:

><...> basic questions  afterward such as "Who was the old man in the 
>beginning?" and "Why did the wands connect?").

As to the first, the answer was given in Voldemort's translation of 
Nagini's message: "The old Muggle caretaker...". As to the second, I agree 
that this was a serious deficiency in the script, which has been raised by 
others.

>where was the look of triumph?

Do you know what a gleam of triumph in someone's eye looks like? I sure 
don't. Something like that is much easier to write than it is to portray on 
screen. How do we know that there *wasn't* a triumphant gleam?

(Completely incidentally, one of my objections to the book is that, as any 
psychiatrist/psychologist will tell you, one of the side-effects of raging 
hormones in adolescent boys is that between the ages of about 13 and 16, 
almost all boys have a great deal of difficulty correctly identifying 
fairly basic facial expressions such as fear, surprise or sympathy - I know 
of at least 3 statistical studies which prove it beyond a doubt. So how 
Harry is able to identify something as nebulous as *triumph* in someone's 
eyes is, frankly, bewildering.)

>Where was Fawkes?

Why did he need to be there? What was he going to add to the scene? 
Especially as we weren't in DD's office.

>Do non-readers remember that Voldemort is named Tom Riddle after his father?

One of things I really admired about this film was that the adaptors make 
absolutely no concessions to those who hadn't followed the story to date. 
At least for the first five, JKR made some attempts at summarising the 
story and characters to date, but 1) she had the page space to do so, and 
2) she admitted herself at one point that it was tedious both to write and 
to read. Voldemort's identity had been established in the second movie, and 
the producers deemed this sufficient. And I applaud them for having the 
courage to do so.

>Why weren't we told that the  house in Harry's "dream" was the Riddle House?

Did we need to be told? We had the Riddle tomb at the very beginning, and 
the camera move up to the house said all that needed to be said, IMO. 
(People I've spoken to who've not read the books, but have seen the movies 
- once each - made the connection, so it's not just in my mind.)

>Why didn't they explain that the wands were twins and that's why they 
>connected?

Whilst it wasn't made clear that there is a causal relationship between 
these two facts (see above), the "weighing of the wands" in the book was a 
particularly crude way of reminding readers of the wand cores, and I'm sort 
of glad that the movie eliminated it. But again, this should have been 
dealt with during the Harry-DD conversation at the end of the movie.

>Why have Barty Jr. in the Riddle House in the beginning and not explain
>how he escaped from Azkaban

My issue with that is slightly different. Read my full review (msg #11437) 
for more.

>(especially after taking the time to throw a potion that was never stated 
>to be Veritaserum down his throat)?

Well, Snape had shown us/Harry the Veritaserum bottle and it was the same 
bottle, so most attentive viewers would make the connection. Never mind the 
reaction...

>Why bother to show Hagrid and Maxime talking intimately if  we're not 
>going to learn they're both part-giants?

Because, well, it's obvious that they're at least half-gaints, innit? :-) 
Secondly, the fact doesn't come into its own until OotP, and we know that 
Grawp will be included, because David Heyman has already let it be known 
that he'll be an entirely CGI character. As the fact will need to be 
mentioned then, why bother mentioning it now?

(Incidentally, the same goes for a comment someone else has made, regarding 
Neville, his parents and the Cruciatus - there is no real reason why 
we/Harry need to find out *why* Neville had such a strong reaction until 
it's included in OotP.)

>Why were there no obstacles in the maze?

Because they changed the very concept of what the maze challenge was about. 
It was no longer about conquering scary creatures, but about conquering 
one's own fears, as (sort-of, not particularly well) explained by 
Dumbledore when the contestants went in. I don't think they pulled it off 
particularly well, but personally, I'm glad that we didn't have yet 
*another* "fight off the scary monster" sequence, seeing as that had been 
the core of the first two tasks.

<snip>

>Why not  spend some of that showing how Harry isn't Superman and has to
>struggle to learn how to use the summoning charm.

As I said in another post, that isn't really a problem with this movie 
alone, as the whole series to date hasn't got across the idea that Harry is 
at best average at picking up new skills. This is just one of the ways in 
which Movie!Harry is a little different to Book!Harry.

>I loved the QWC stadium (it truly looked as enormous as it was supposed 
>to), but after all the time spent getting them there, they didn't show any 
>of the game!

A decision for which I am personally thankful! Apart from the fact that it 
would be fairly boring (inasmuch as it would just be a variation on all the 
Quidditch matches we've seen to date), it kept the movie as *Harry's* story 
and even though it's a little unfair, it kept Harry being the only one 
doing really impressive feats on-screen. Again, it's a slightly different 
Harry from the books, but it is in keeping with the rest of the movie series.

>And then it's never explained why the Hogwarts students won't be playing 
>Quidditch that year.

Did we really need an explanation? Most non-book-reading members of the 
audience probably didn't even notice that there was no Quidditch in the movie.

>And why couldn't Krum have talked more?  Did Hermione really need to intimate
>that she and Krum spend all of their time in non-verbal pursuits?

Well, Book!Krum *is* a man of few words and I actually liked the fact that 
the only time we heard him speak on-screen was when he threw Rita out of 
the tent (I might be mistaken, he may have grunted one or two words much 
later on).

>Harry needed to be gagged in the graveyard scene, though,

Sorry, why? To what dramatic purpose? (And please don't say "because that's 
the way it was in the book".)

>It all happened so fast, it wasn't at all clear to me that the "shades" of 
>Voldemort's past victims were actually emerging from his wand - they just 
>seemed to appear from nowhere.

It was clear, but like so many movies nowadays, for better or worse, this 
one has been made to be watched more than once. I currently stand at 7 full 
viewings and I notice some new detail every time. I do agree, however, as 
said above, that the *reason* for the apparitions was something lacking 
from the final DD-Harry conversation, which would have cleared up any 
ambiguity.

>And why, oh why, does Harry have to say "Have it your way" - that line 
>reminded me of the old Burger King commercials!

That's not the only Harry line to which I object, but this one is really a 
minor objection, as Harry needed to say *something* to show that he was 
prepared to meet Voldemort on his own terms, rather than cower behind a 
headstone. "Have it your way" is as good as anything else, I suppose. 
(Although the phrase does, I agree, have connotations with not just BK's 
advertising slogan.)

>To me, the fundamental flaw with all of the films is that they fail to 
>tell the story from Harry's perspective.  I think this could be easily 
>done - show some scenes from Harry's eyes; "hear" him thinking what he's 
>feeling, etc.

Heck, NO! Doing first-person narrated movies that way is lazy and nine 
times out of ten falls flat on its face. Hearing characters think is one of 
the worst ways to tell a story, and should be used only in vary limited 
circumstances, none of which apply to HP. I would submit that by and large, 
Harry's POV is maintained, even if Cuaron and Newell refuse to take the 
easy way - the Columbus way - of achieving that by filming most of the 
scenes from a child's height. The movies restrict "seeing through Harry's 
eyes" in the almost literal (i.e. technical) sense to dreams, etc, of which 
we have more to come.

>Showing Harry's perspective - his fears and the way in which he decides 
>how to deal with his fears - would have helped to create more tension 
>during the 3 tasks and in the graveyard scene, IMO.

Except that the actors should be able to show that without the need for 
trickery of that sort. I've always maintained that young Master Radcliffe 
has severe limitations as an actor, and that scene is a perfect example.

>Just my two knuts :)

And that's mine in the pot as well. Sorry if any of the above sounds harsh 
or curt, but I'm trying to keep my comments short (I'm sure some people 
must be tired of hearing from me) but I disagree with you about so much 
that I had to pipe up. I apologise in advance for any perceived offence: 
none is intended. I welcome any counter-attacks. :-)

--
Richard AKA GulPlum, who's falling behind on replying to posts again





From hp at plum.cream.org  Mon Nov 28 02:55:42 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 02:55:42 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Inconsistency and
  Incoherence/GOF!Movie!DD/JKR's input to the script
In-Reply-To: <dmdonm+nlo4@eGroups.com>
References: <4.2.0.58.20051128001126.00b02260@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051128021213.00b00560@plum.cream.org>

At 02:06 28/11/2005 , JenD wrote:

>Richard,
>By implication you bring up a very, perhaps, depressing idea, that  the 
>film versions of Harry Potter can only be crude approximations of JKR's 
>books and that to expect them to be more is unrealistic. Is that a fair 
>statement?

Not entirely. I wouldn't use the word "crude" (well, except perhaps for 
Columbus's efforts) :-) but I would submit that, as currently produced, 
they should be thought of as simplified, or abbreviated, versions. The time 
constraints are actually just a minor element in that. Of much greater 
significance is the fact that, as I have said on many, many occasions 
before and will continue to repeat, the adapters don't know where the story 
is going and thus cannot make the important editorial decisions they need 
to be able to make.

An additional constraint is that film-makers are aware that they have this 
huge fandom which they need to satisfy: most of the fandom (as far as I can 
tell) simply will not accept any deviation from the books in any way 
whatsoever, and so the production team has to play very, very safe - 
considerably safer than they would otherwise. The fans know MUCH more about 
the minutest details of each and every turn in every chapter than the 
film-makers (or even JKR) ever can. Not to mention that we get complaints 
that such-and-such a favourite scene or such-and-such a piece of dialogue 
which will have repercussions two movies down the line has been cut, even 
though it's not necessarily important to the immediate plot.

I am a little concerned, though, that the script for each of the movies to 
date has made one expositional dialogue cut too many, leaving one plot 
element unexplained. And this is particularly annoying, because otherwise, 
I for one would be entirely happy.

And last but not least is the fact that they're making the movies 
child-friendly. I don't mean in terms of blood-and-gore, but the emotional 
(and cinematic!) complexity they feel they can put up on screen. They are, 
instead, making action movies, and the action scenes will always be the 
driving force behind each chapter. I think they've got the balance right 
*for the kind of movie that they're making*, but I'm not sure that's the 
kind of movie most adult fans want. Ultimately though, they don't really 
care what the adult fans want because it's the kids they want coming back 
for more - I am convinced that Warners are rubbing their hands with glee at 
the PG13/12A ratings GoF got, because for every child ticket they sell, 
they'll have to sell at least one adult one (and perhaps a second, as many 
parents will want to pre-watch the film for themselves to decide whether to 
take their kids along).

At least the one thing the HP movies have in their favour is that, for 
better or worse, they are still telling the same story as the books 
(albeit, as I say above, a simplified version). I remember being utterly 
disappointed with The Bourne Identity a few years ago because they'd 
changed the core story of one of my favourite books as a teenager into 
something unrecognisable. That really *was* a crude adaptation, taking a 
complex, interesting story as something on which to hang a fairly ordinary 
action movie (even if the action sequences were well done for what they 
were), and removing all traces of the original complexity. And that was an 
*adult* movie!

--
Richard, off to bed




From poppytheelf at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 28 03:42:38 2005
From: poppytheelf at hotmail.com (Phyllis)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 03:42:38 -0000
Subject: Phyllis's GoF Review
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20051128005259.00b077d0@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <dmdube+uvkg@eGroups.com>

Richard:

<<As to the first, the answer was given in Voldemort's translation of 
Nagini's message: "The old Muggle caretaker...".>>

I didn't catch that - in fact, I found it very difficult to hear what 
Voldemort was saying in that scene.

Richard:

<<Do you know what a gleam of triumph in someone's eye looks like? I 
sure don't. Something like that is much easier to write than it is to 
portray on screen. How do we know that there *wasn't* a triumphant 
gleam?>>

My issue was more with the lack of an indication of the significance 
of Voldemort using Harry's blood to regenerate.  Because of the yet-
to-be-defined reason for the "gleam," there is apparently some 
significance with the use of Harry's blood.  The fact that there was 
no discussion at all between Dumbledore and Harry about Voldemort 
using Harry's blood and some sort of indication that this was 
meaningful to Dumbledore (whether through a gleam or some sort of 
other look) is what troubled me.

Richard:
 
<<(Completely incidentally, one of my objections to the book is that, 
as any psychiatrist/psychologist will tell you, one of the side-
effects of raging hormones in adolescent boys is that between the 
ages of about 13 and 16, almost all boys have a great deal of 
difficulty correctly identifying fairly basic facial expressions such 
as fear, surprise or sympathy - I know of at least 3 statistical 
studies which prove it beyond a doubt.>>

Were these studies done on *wizard* adolescent boys? ;-)
 
Me:

<<Where was Fawkes?>>

Richard:

<<Why did he need to be there? What was he going to add to the scene? 
Especially as we weren't in DD's office.>>

Again, I didn't explain myself fully - while if perhaps a non-reader 
would be expected to remember that, three movies ago, Ollivander told 
Harry that Harry's and Voldemort's wand cores came from the same 
phoenix, it's only in GoF that we find out that phoenix was Fawkes.  
I was objecting to this not being mentioned, as I can't see why 
Rowling would bother having the feathers come from Fawkes if that 
doesn't prove to become meaningful in some way before the series is 
over.

Richard:

<<Voldemort's identity had been established in the second movie, and 
the producers deemed this sufficient.>>

True, but it's not mentioned at all in the third movie (or book, for 
that matter), so I don't think it would be out of order for Voldemort 
to make some reference to his being named after his father at some 
point during the graveyard scene (perhaps when he admits that he 
killed him, which isn't mentioned at all in the movie).

Richard:

<<Did we need to be told? We had the Riddle tomb at the very 
beginning, and the camera move up to the house said all that needed 
to be said, IMO.>>

Is the Riddle name clear on the tomb at the beginning?  The only time 
I noticed it was in the graveyard scene.

Richard:

<<Well, Snape had shown us/Harry the Veritaserum bottle and it was 
the same bottle, so most attentive viewers would make the 
connection.>>

Apparently, my attentiveness was waning at that point - but given 
that Dumbledore didn't interrogate Barty Jr. anyway, I don't see why 
they bothered with the Veritaserum.  Things like this make me wonder 
just how much filming actually winds up on the cutting room floor.

Richard:

<<Sorry, why? To what dramatic purpose? (And please don't 
say "because that's the way it was in the book".)>>

I would personally be quite pleased if the movie followed the book in 
every respect, but that wasn't my reason for thinking that Harry 
should have been gagged in the graveyard scene.  It just seemed to me 
that a gag would have been a good way of keeping Harry quiet - as it 
was, Harry only said one thing ("Don't touch Cedric" or something to 
that effect) and it just struck me as strange that he would have kept 
so quiet without a gag (if it had been me, I would have been 
screaming).

Richard:

<<That's not the only Harry line to which I object, but this one is 
really a minor objection, as Harry needed to say *something* to show 
that he was prepared to meet Voldemort on his own terms, rather than 
cower behind a headstone. "Have it your way" is as good as anything 
else, I suppose.>>

I think the reason why this particular line bugged me so much is that 
I feel a very powerful rush of emotion every time I read the part 
about Harry's thinking behind his decision to emerge from behind the 
gravestone and fight Voldemort face-to-face.  Without dragging out my 
book, it's something like "...it was beyond fear or reason ... he was 
going to fight Voldemort, straight-backed and proud, like his father 
did ..."  Boiling all of that down to "Have it your way" didn't 
convey any of that thought process at all, which is why I think it 
bothered me so much.  It's the same thought process Harry goes 
through in HBP when Dumbledore is trying to get him to understand the 
difference between finishing Voldemort off because the prophecy is 
making him do it vs. because it's the right thing to do.   I think 
it's a distinction that's important to the series.

Richard:

<<I've always maintained that young Master Radcliffe has severe 
limitations as an actor, and that scene is a perfect example.>>

I guess that's it - I knew something was missing!  I also think POV 
is a lot easier to get across in writing than on-screen.

Richard:

<<I apologise in advance for any perceived offence: none is 
intended.>>

I'm not at all offended, you have been a perfect gentleman and I 
welcome the discussion:)

~Phyllis








From lodonne4 at twcny.rr.com  Mon Nov 28 04:07:56 2005
From: lodonne4 at twcny.rr.com (Lorie J. O'Donnell)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 23:07:56 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Digest Number 1327
In-Reply-To: <1a8.4451f901.30b36ab5@aol.com>
References: <1a8.4451f901.30b36ab5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <f9f54b08665f031c2e76fa32419636fe@twcny.rr.com>

Yes, at the end.   But they cut a lot of the end of the movie, in 
saving time most likely.  We didn't really KNOW any more after the book 
than after the movie, and the movie fans are as prepared for movie 5 as 
we were for book five.

Lorie

On Nov 21, 2005, at 1:23 PM, artsylynda at aol.com wrote:

>
>
> In a message dated 11/21/2005 8:29:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com writes:
>
> To your  question, JKR doesn't bring the order into the series
> until the 5th  installment.   I never assumed that there would
> be advance  mention of them in GOF.  The movie mentions extra
> security, as does  the book, at Hogwarts.  When reading it for
> the first time, I assumed  it was simply because of the Tourney.
> After reading the rest of them, I  guess they are the Order.
>
> Lorie
>
>
> At the end of GoF, DD has Sirius and somebody else go and gather  the 
> "old
> crowd" -- Arabella Figg, etc.  This is mentioned specifically, as  is 
> DD's
> comment to Fudge that they've reached "the parting of the ways."   DD 
> asks the
> Weasleys if he can depend on them, and Bill goes off to do an errand  
> for him (on
> Order business, we know now that we know about the Order).  So  the 
> Order is
> not mentioned by name, but it is certainly talked about in the end  of 
> GoF --
> as I recall, and I haven't read it in a while.
>
> Lynda AKA "Abraxan"
>
> Read my Harry Potter fics here:  
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary 
> material from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Any questions or problems - contact the List Elves at 
> HPforGrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
"Good communication is as stimulating as black coffee and just as hard 
to sleep after."
--Anne Morrow Lindbergh





From dragonjcndm2 at aol.com  Mon Nov 28 02:59:12 2005
From: dragonjcndm2 at aol.com (jade76_2000)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 02:59:12 -0000
Subject: New to the list.
Message-ID: <dmdrq0+e60c@eGroups.com>

Greetings. My name is Jade. I'm a "first year" to this list as well as 
the sister list and wanted to briefly introduce myself. The Goblet of 
Fire film has now trapped me into the HP world and I am delighted to 
see so many of the same interests. Thank you for allowing me this 
small introduction.

Jade










From artsylynda at aol.com  Mon Nov 28 14:44:18 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 09:44:18 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Dan's acting
Message-ID: <26e.b97267.30bc71c2@aol.com>

 
 
In a message dated 11/28/2005 8:16:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com writes:

<<I've always maintained that young Master Radcliffe has severe  
limitations as an actor, and that scene is a perfect  example.>>


I just can't let this go unchallenged.  Dan has done a  credible job in all 
the films, IMO.  Given the scripts and direction he's  had, he's done very well 
with the material at hand.  I DID see tears in the  PoA crying scene (they 
showed up clearly in IMAX), but I grant you, it didn't  SOUND as convincing as 
it should have.  But how many 13 year old  boys can "pretend" to cry that hard 
and sound convincing, particularly if  they're generally happy people who 
haven't suffered much in their lives (which  seems to be true of Dan), and 
probably haven't spend a lot of time crying?  
 
I give Newell full marks, as well as Dan Radcliffe himself, for the  
tremendous improvement in Dan's acting.  He's matured, he embodies the  character I've 
been reading about absolutely perfectly, and he touched my heart  many times 
in this film, at all the right spots.  His tension and shock  when everyone's 
calling him a cheat when his name comes out of the Goblet of  Fire are 
perfect.  I could feel how hurt and scared he was.  His  solemn face as he's walking 
down that corridor while the students are all saying  goodbye to each other, 
and the gradual shift in his expression from solemn to  slight smile, is 
lovely.  His "weight of the world on his shoulders"  expression when he says "yes" 
so simply to Hermione's "Everything's going to  change now, isn't it?" was spot 
on.  His fear was palpable in many scenes,  and the resolve in his face and 
body language as he stood up to face Voldemort  -- I was so impressed with his 
courage.  And I LOVED seeing the  playfulness and "cheekiness" in his 
character that I've always thought was there  (but it wasn't shown much in the films)  
during the scene when Ron had  to dance with McG.  It was nice to see him 
acting like a normal "sports  hero" teenager, too, when asking if the Gryffindors 
wanted him to open the egg  -- it may have seemed a bit OOC to some people, 
but you have to realize  that he's been the center of many a celebration after 
winning Quidditch  games and he's used to that kind of thing now.  That was a 
fun scene.   And his tension while dancing -- perfect!  One of the best things 
I've seen  in film lately, that both touched my heart, made me laugh and made 
me remember  the "not so good-old-days" of being a teenager, was Harry's 
discomfort in asking  Cho to the ball.  They could not have done that scene any 
more  convincingly.  And Cho was quite charming, as well.  For her  first-ever 
role, I was impressed with how she handled that scene in  particular.
 
I've rarely been impressed with child actors (it requires a GREAT  director 
to get a good performance out of most of them), but I've always been  impressed 
with Dan, and not just because he was a cute little boy and is a  handsome 
young man.  He fits into Harry's skin so well  and makes you  see the "magic" of 
the magical world through his eyes, as well as the horrors of  Harry's own 
life.  When Harry brought Cedric's body back, his body language  and heartbroken 
tears were perfect.  Newell did a marvelous job of  direction and of teaching 
the kids how to reach down inside themselves and pull  out those extreme 
emotions they needed to show in this one, as well as the  subtle ones.  Dan and 
Rupert were simply fabulous.  Emma was way  over the top at times, and sometimes 
her reactions were just illogical to  me.  She's been pretty good in all the 
films, but this was her worst  performance in many scenes.  Her scenes in the 
ball sequence were  wonderful, though.
 
That's enough of a rant for now.  I'm excited to see Dan in  "December Boys" 
to see how well he can portray a different character, but I  think he'll be 
fine.  Harry and Dan are very different people, with  different looks and body 
language -- Dan has potential as a great character  actor as well as a leading 
man, I think, simply because he can look so different  with only the addition 
of glasses and the proper attitude, at such an early age.   

Lynda AKA "Abraxan"

Read my Harry Potter fics here:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From ladypensieve at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 28 15:59:43 2005
From: ladypensieve at yahoo.com (Kathy)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:59:43 -0000
Subject: Dan's acting
In-Reply-To: <26e.b97267.30bc71c2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <dmf9hf+4b4m@eGroups.com>


I want to add to Lynda's rant.  The incredible thing about JKR's 
books is that she allows her characters to grow - to mature 
throughout their Hogwarts years.

Harry is someone who has been abused for at least eleven years.  
People who are abused learn to get abused as little as possible...by 
not showing their emotions.  

Harry/Dan not showing emotion, or even crying (for the first time in 
Harry's life) is going to be difficult. When we read the books, we 
put our own spin on that scene...but in the movie...and I agree with 
Lynda about IMAX...you could see the tears, but the sound of it was 
horrible...again...as it should be with a boys first tears.

Ron/Rupert is the exact opposite.  He reacts because if he doesn't, 
his brothers will keep at him until he does. If he doesn't over 
react, they'll keep pestering him.  He's in a safe environment, 
therefore able to let his emotions out. 

Each of these actors are doing a marvelous job, because they've got 
their characters spot on.

As the characters get older, we see more coming from Harry/Dan, and 
less from Ron/Rupert.  Why, because Harry is feeling 'safe' within 
Hogwarts and his circle of friends, where Ron is learning that there 
are unsafe places, and that maybe he cannot trust everyone around 
him.  

And for anyone who wants to say that Ron/Rupert is still over-
reacting because of the spider scene...remember that this is how he 
was tortured by his brothers.  Spiders are his weakness and he 
reacts from habit, not from choice.  I personally think of Ron as 
quite the hero - not just for the chess game, but for going into the 
Forbidden Forest with Harry because of this childhood fear.  

Harry was raised with spiders in the cupboard under the stairs.  Ron 
had his favorite stuffed animal turned into a spider in his bed.  
With this giant phobia, Ron still went with his best friend into a 
place riddled with his worst nightmare.  Hooray for Ron!!!!!

KathyO

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, artsylynda at a... wrote:
>
>  
>  
> In a message dated 11/28/2005 8:16:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
> HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com writes:
> 
> <<I've always maintained that young Master Radcliffe has severe  
> limitations as an actor, and that scene is a perfect  example.>>
> 
> 
> I just can't let this go unchallenged.  Dan has done a  credible 
job in all 
> the films, IMO.  Given the scripts and direction he's  had, he's 
done very well 
> with the material at hand.  I DID see tears in the  PoA crying 
scene (they 
> showed up clearly in IMAX), but I grant you, it didn't  SOUND as 
convincing as 
> it should have.  But how many 13 year old  boys can "pretend" to 
cry that hard 
> and sound convincing, particularly if  they're generally happy 
people who 
> haven't suffered much in their lives (which  seems to be true of 
Dan), and 
> probably haven't spend a lot of time crying?  
>  
> I give Newell full marks, as well as Dan Radcliffe himself, for 
the  
> tremendous improvement in Dan's acting.  He's matured, he embodies 
the  character I've 
> been reading about absolutely perfectly, and he touched my heart  
many times 
> in this film, at all the right spots.  His tension and shock  when 
everyone's 
> calling him a cheat when his name comes out of the Goblet of  Fire 
are 
> perfect.  I could feel how hurt and scared he was.  His  solemn 
face as he's walking 
> down that corridor while the students are all saying  goodbye to 
each other, 
> and the gradual shift in his expression from solemn to  slight 
smile, is 
> lovely.  His "weight of the world on his shoulders"  expression 
when he says "yes" 
> so simply to Hermione's "Everything's going to  change now, isn't 
it?" was spot 
> on.  His fear was palpable in many scenes,  and the resolve in his 
face and 
> body language as he stood up to face Voldemort  -- I was so 
impressed with his 
> courage.  And I LOVED seeing the  playfulness and "cheekiness" in 
his 
> character that I've always thought was there  (but it wasn't shown 
much in the films)  
> during the scene when Ron had  to dance with McG.  It was nice to 
see him 
> acting like a normal "sports  hero" teenager, too, when asking if 
the Gryffindors 
> wanted him to open the egg  -- it may have seemed a bit OOC to 
some people, 
> but you have to realize  that he's been the center of many a 
celebration after 
> winning Quidditch  games and he's used to that kind of thing now.  
That was a 
> fun scene.   And his tension while dancing -- perfect!  One of the 
best things 
> I've seen  in film lately, that both touched my heart, made me 
laugh and made 
> me remember  the "not so good-old-days" of being a teenager, was 
Harry's 
> discomfort in asking  Cho to the ball.  They could not have done 
that scene any 
> more  convincingly.  And Cho was quite charming, as well.  For 
her  first-ever 
> role, I was impressed with how she handled that scene in  
particular.
>  
> I've rarely been impressed with child actors (it requires a GREAT  
director 
> to get a good performance out of most of them), but I've always 
been  impressed 
> with Dan, and not just because he was a cute little boy and is a  
handsome 
> young man.  He fits into Harry's skin so well  and makes you  see 
the "magic" of 
> the magical world through his eyes, as well as the horrors of  
Harry's own 
> life.  When Harry brought Cedric's body back, his body language  
and heartbroken 
> tears were perfect.  Newell did a marvelous job of  direction and 
of teaching 
> the kids how to reach down inside themselves and pull  out those 
extreme 
> emotions they needed to show in this one, as well as the  subtle 
ones.  Dan and 
> Rupert were simply fabulous.  Emma was way  over the top at times, 
and sometimes 
> her reactions were just illogical to  me.  She's been pretty good 
in all the 
> films, but this was her worst  performance in many scenes.  Her 
scenes in the 
> ball sequence were  wonderful, though.
>  
> That's enough of a rant for now.  I'm excited to see Dan 
in  "December Boys" 
> to see how well he can portray a different character, but I  think 
he'll be 
> fine.  Harry and Dan are very different people, with  different 
looks and body 
> language -- Dan has potential as a great character  actor as well 
as a leading 
> man, I think, simply because he can look so different  with only 
the addition 
> of glasses and the proper attitude, at such an early age.   
> 
> Lynda AKA "Abraxan"
> 
> Read my Harry Potter fics here:  
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>







From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 28 16:10:32 2005
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora67)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:10:32 -0000
Subject: Dan's acting
In-Reply-To: <dmf9hf+4b4m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dmfa5o+ts72@eGroups.com>

At the risk of saying, "Me too!"  I have to agree with Lynda and 
Kathy.  I look at him as an abused boy also, and how Dan portrays 
Harry is spot on for me.  There were moments in PoA that he was 
phenomenal, as in the scene where he conjures the patronus to save 
himself and Sirius.  You can see him waiting for his Dad to come, then 
his eyes get big, and he realizes what he must do.  I thought that was 
amazing, that  he could do so much with his expressions.  And in GoF?  
Behind the tombstone when V wants to kill him?  That fear turned into 
resolution and we saw it all happen on his face.  I think he's 
outstanding for a young man, and I can't wait to see this new film 
he's working on in Australia. :)

Alora :)








From dragonjcndm2 at aol.com  Mon Nov 28 16:21:42 2005
From: dragonjcndm2 at aol.com (dragonjcndm2 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:21:42 -0500
Subject: GoF Review
Message-ID: <8C7C24EF3BA98DB-9A4-D7C4@FWM-R21.sysops.aol.com>

The money won't be difficult to explain at all.  The twins were 
taking bets through out the tournament.  Betting on Harry of course.  
I think you're right however, and they'll ignore the twins and 
Weasley's Wizard Wheezes (sp?).  I think they'll become more 
important in the last book.  (only speculation, sorry)

-Darkchylde

 
The more I think about it, the more they'll make themselves more complicated by ignoring that bit. I don't know why, it is just sort of creeping up on me. Harry's lending of the money reveals later on the Weasely twin's confident move to leave Hogwart's during the defying Umbridge scene. I'm just thinking if they're not careful, they might put too many holes in what is seemingly an important part about the twins in OOTF and HBP. Just my thoughts.
 
Jade


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dragonjcndm2 at aol.com  Mon Nov 28 16:32:25 2005
From: dragonjcndm2 at aol.com (dragonjcndm2 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:32:25 -0500
Subject: Favorite scene amongst all four movies?
Message-ID: <8C7C250734DAC4F-9A4-D8FF@FWM-R21.sysops.aol.com>

What is your favorite scene amongst all four movies.  If you can't
> narrow it down to just one scene from all of the four movies, then
> favorite scene per movie is fine.
>
>
> Diana L.

Sourcer's Stone: Trickery of Voldermort and the mirror
Chamber of Secrets: Realization of Voldermort's horror when Harry stabs the diary with the Basilisk's tooth.
Prisoner of Azkaban: The family moment between Harry and Sirius/fending off the Dementors at the lake/Hermione punching Malfoy/Harry overcoming his new book of creatures.
Goblet of Fire: Weasley twin showing Ron how to get a date/Snape's continuous backhanding of Harry and Ron/facing Voldermort/emotional scene upon returning Cedric's body back to the tournament crowd.
 
Man, this deciding with one from each film is just too hard for me.
 
Jade


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From hp at plum.cream.org  Mon Nov 28 16:44:35 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:44:35 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Phyllis's GoF Review
In-Reply-To: <dmdube+uvkg@eGroups.com>
References: <4.2.0.58.20051128005259.00b077d0@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051128144519.00b88830@plum.cream.org>

At 03:42 28/11/2005 , Phyllis replied to my previous comments, inter alia:

>The fact that there was no discussion at all between Dumbledore and Harry 
>about Voldemort using Harry's blood and some sort of indication that this was
>meaningful to Dumbledore (whether through a gleam or some sort of other 
>look) is what troubled me.

As I've said before (am I already sounding like a broken record?), the 
movies have enough problems telling the story of each individual book 
without going to the trouble of presaging future events.

In any event... I have gone to the trouble of seeing the movie again (well, 
not in its entirety, just the end) to check exactly what happens in that 
scene, and I could swear there was a slight nod and quizzical look on 
Gambledore's face when he looked up from  Harry's wound to Crouch when 
they're comparing arms. I got a perverse kick out of the fact that we don't 
see a close-up of Gambledore at that point, him, Harry and Crouch in 
profile. (Incidentally, I'd like to point out that my local cinema is in 
walking distance of where I'm sitting and it doesn't cost me to go in - 
completely legitimately, I might add! - , which is one reason why I spend 
so much of my time there and tend to pop over to check out any issues which 
are raised here).

>While if perhaps a non-reader  would be expected to remember that, three 
>movies ago, Ollivander told  Harry that Harry's and Voldemort's wand cores 
>came from the same phoenix, it's only in GoF that we find out that phoenix 
>was Fawkes.  I was objecting to this not being mentioned, as I can't see why
>Rowling would bother having the feathers come from Fawkes if that doesn't 
>prove to become meaningful in some way before the series is over.

Ah, sorry. Thanks. That explains the drift of your original point, which I 
had misunderstood. I would refer you to my first comment above - when the 
significance of Harry's and Voldy's wand cores being *Fawkes's* feathers 
comes into its own in Book Seven (if it is truly significant, as that could 
potentially just be JKR tying up a detail with a pretty bow) I'm sure the 
movie will address it. For the time being, there's no real significance in 
identifying Fawkes as seemingly the only phoenix in the Potterverse (of 
course, there is the speculation that Dumbledore changes into one at the 
end of HBP...).


>True, but it's not mentioned at all in the third movie (or book, for
>that matter), so I don't think it would be out of order for Voldemort
>to make some reference to his being named after his father at some
>point during the graveyard scene (perhaps when he admits that he
>killed him, which isn't mentioned at all in the movie).

The story of Voldy's boyhood and his transformation from Tom Riddle is one 
of the parallel plots of HBP: the fact that Riddle murdered his parents is 
an important element of that particular thread, and again, there is no need 
for the movie series to establish that at this particular point.


>Is the Riddle name clear on the tomb at the beginning?  The only time
>I noticed it was in the graveyard scene.

Sorry, I made a bit of a jump there. No, the name isn't visible in any of 
the dream sequences, but when we see it again towards the end, Harry 
running his hands over the names underlines that this is an Important Plot 
Point. Something I've neglected to say thus far in all my comments about 
this movie is that another one of the things for which I admire it is that 
it requires the viewer to think just a little bit, and add elements from 
different points in the movie together to draw conclusions, rather than 
having them all spelt out in what would have been REALLY tedious exposition 
scenes, either from Voldy or Dumbledore. In all the pre-release hoop-la, 
all the participants kept going on about how much darker and grown-up the 
tone of the film is. I wish at least *someone* (Kloves, Newell, Heyman...) 
would have added that little self-congratulatory comment.

><...> given that Dumbledore didn't interrogate Barty Jr. anyway, I don't 
>see why
>they bothered with the Veritaserum.  Things like this make me wonder just 
>how much filming actually winds up on the cutting room floor.

According to Newell, there's about 15 minutes of material he wants to add 
on the DVD. Even so, I doubt there's much extra material form the 
interrogation scene available. One of the biggest expenses in filming the 
movies to date is the limited amount of time the kids can be in front of 
the cameras (thankfully, British laws being what they are, this is no 
longer an issue when it comes to Dan) so I would expect that they're quite 
tight on scheduling and very little extra footage is actually filmed; any 
"extra scenes" we might get to see are usually editorial decisions (i.e. 
scenes which the director/editor decide don't add anything to the finished 
movie) rather than anything inherently important.

As far as the interrogation scene goes, there isn't really anything to add, 
so I can't imagine there's anything on the cutting-room floor to see. My 
own problem with the interrogation scene is with the dialogue (as per usual 
for me, most of my complaints about the HP movies are about clunky bits of 
dialogue) - Dumbledore's first question is "are you Moody": by that stage, 
it should have been obvious, and the question to ask was, in fact, "who are 
you?" A small re-edit could have left it a valid question, with the answer 
being Crouch's transformation. Yet another example of Kloves falling down 
on his job, and the actors not picking up on it.

>I would personally be quite pleased if the movie followed the book in
>every respect, but that wasn't my reason for thinking that Harry
>should have been gagged in the graveyard scene.  It just seemed to me
>that a gag would have been a good way of keeping Harry quiet - as it
>was, Harry only said one thing ("Don't touch Cedric" or something to
>that effect) and it just struck me as strange that he would have kept
>so quiet without a gag (if it had been me, I would have been
>screaming).

As for screaming, the scream needed to be kept back for when Voldy touches 
him; as for silence in general, Movie!Harry is quite stoical (just a little 
more so than Book!Harry), so between the shock and the curiosity of hearing 
what Voldy had to say, I think that the fact that he broke his silence only 
to protect Cedric (however feebly) was perfectly well done, and completely 
in character.

>Without dragging out my book, it's something like "...it was beyond fear 
>or reason ... he was going to fight Voldemort, straight-backed and proud, 
>like his father did ..."  Boiling all of that down to "Have it your way" 
>didn't
>convey any of that thought process at all, which is why I think it
>bothered me so much.

Having watched the scene again today, I was a little unkind to Dan with my 
previous comment, as he did a *fairly* good job of providing all of that in 
his looks and movement from behind the gravestone. As usual (and as, again, 
I've said several times) it's in his dialogue delivery that he needs most 
improvement: his facial expressions and body language did quite well until 
he got the tone of the line a bit off (sounding blas? rather than determined).

>It's the same thought process Harry goes through in HBP when Dumbledore is 
>trying to get him to understand the difference between finishing Voldemort 
>off because the prophecy is making him do it vs. because it's the right 
>thing to do.   I think it's a distinction that's important to the series.

I agree, and I hope that between now and filming OotP, Dan gets some help 
with his dialogue because he's going to have a heck of a lot of it in OotP 
(my impression is that he doesn't actually say much in HBP) and has some 
difficult lines to deliver with all kinds of sub-texts. I don't think he's 
going to have too much trouble with reaction shots (especially when he can 
do them over and over again and they can edit in seconds-worth of reaction 
shots much more easily than dialogue).

>I'm not at all offended, you have been a perfect gentleman and I
>welcome the discussion:)

*Phew*. When I re-read what I had written, I felt it came across a bit 
harshly, so I'm glad that you took it in the spirit in which it was 
intended. :-)

--
Richard



From dragonjcndm2 at aol.com  Mon Nov 28 17:08:11 2005
From: dragonjcndm2 at aol.com (dragonjcndm2 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:08:11 -0500
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <8C7C255728FD280-1C20-10D8@MBLK-M34.sysops.aol.com>

Richard:

<<Voldemort's identity had been established in the second movie, and 
the producers deemed this sufficient.>>

True, but it's not mentioned at all in the third movie (or book, for 
that matter), so I don't think it would be out of order for Voldemort 
to make some reference to his being named after his father at some 
point during the graveyard scene (perhaps when he admits that he 
killed him, which isn't mentioned at all in the movie).

Irrelevant. Most fans who have seen the previous films can undoubtedly update themselves by watching Chamber of Secrets to be reminded. I don't see how every film has to be reminded when a detail has already been mentioned (unless it's really extremely important). In fact, I find that kind of annoying. As it is, I haven't found any movie watcher question Tom Riddle on the tombstone just yet. Then again, the DVD has yet to reveal extra cut scenes.
 
Jade


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From lillithowl at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 28 17:14:06 2005
From: lillithowl at yahoo.com (lillithowl)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 17:14:06 -0000
Subject: Dan's acting
In-Reply-To: <dmfa5o+ts72@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dmfdsu+o74r@eGroups.com>

Hi.  I rarely post here but had to add a Hear, hear! to  the defense 
of Dan's acting.  Yes he is growing up to be an attractive young man, 
but he's also really grown into his performances.  I largely fault 
Colombus for his early performances.  I never thought he was awful but 
could have been better.  But in this fourth film I think he really hit 
all of his marks.  His reactions and expressions were just perfect.  
And his delivery is so vastly improved.  The way he said:  "He's 
back!" was just heartrending  and chilling.

 Rupert and Emma have also really grown in my opinion and as they 
continue to grow and learn their craft I have high hopes for all of 
them.  And they still seem so well adjusted so lets just hope they 
stay out of Hollywood and don't get warped!  






From starjackson1 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 28 15:14:14 2005
From: starjackson1 at yahoo.com (starjackson1)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:14:14 -0000
Subject: Dan's acting
In-Reply-To: <26e.b97267.30bc71c2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <dmf6s6+368o@eGroups.com>

Sometimes I wonder if we are all watching the same movie! Our 
interpretations are so different.

I actually thought Emma Watson's acting in this film was 
*wonderful*.  She really shined in this role and I love her!

Rupert Grint is the strongest actor of the trio. He has always been 
spot on - from the earliest days.  

Dan is the weakest link, HOWEVER - he has steadily improved over the 
life of this films, and he gave a fine performance in GOF (Dan is 16 
years old by the way.  In the film Harry is 14 years old).  

I think the acting all around was very good in this move.

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, artsylynda at a... wrote:
>
>  
>  
> In a message dated 11/28/2005 8:16:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
> HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com writes:
> 
> <<I've always maintained that young Master Radcliffe has severe  
> limitations as an actor, and that scene is a perfect  example.>>
> 
> 
> I just can't let this go unchallenged.  Dan has done a  credible 
job in all 
> the films, IMO.  Given the scripts and direction he's  had, he's 
done very well 
> with the material at hand.  I DID see tears in the  PoA crying 
scene (they 
> showed up clearly in IMAX), but I grant you, it didn't  SOUND as 
convincing as 
> it should have.  But how many 13 year old  boys can "pretend" to 
cry that hard 
> and sound convincing, particularly if  they're generally happy 
people who 
> haven't suffered much in their lives (which  seems to be true of 
Dan), and 
> probably haven't spend a lot of time crying?  
>  
> I give Newell full marks, as well as Dan Radcliffe himself, for 
the  
> tremendous improvement in Dan's acting.  He's matured, he embodies 
the  character I've 
> been reading about absolutely perfectly, and he touched my heart  
many times 
> in this film, at all the right spots.  His tension and shock  when 
everyone's 
> calling him a cheat when his name comes out of the Goblet of  Fire 
are 
> perfect.  I could feel how hurt and scared he was.  His  solemn 
face as he's walking 
> down that corridor while the students are all saying  goodbye to 
each other, 
> and the gradual shift in his expression from solemn to  slight 
smile, is 
> lovely.  His "weight of the world on his shoulders"  expression 
when he says "yes" 
> so simply to Hermione's "Everything's going to  change now, isn't 
it?" was spot 
> on.  His fear was palpable in many scenes,  and the resolve in his 
face and 
> body language as he stood up to face Voldemort  -- I was so 
impressed with his 
> courage.  And I LOVED seeing the  playfulness and "cheekiness" in 
his 
> character that I've always thought was there  (but it wasn't shown 
much in the films)  
> during the scene when Ron had  to dance with McG.  It was nice to 
see him 
> acting like a normal "sports  hero" teenager, too, when asking if 
the Gryffindors 
> wanted him to open the egg  -- it may have seemed a bit OOC to 
some people, 
> but you have to realize  that he's been the center of many a 
celebration after 
> winning Quidditch  games and he's used to that kind of thing now.  
That was a 
> fun scene.   And his tension while dancing -- perfect!  One of the 
best things 
> I've seen  in film lately, that both touched my heart, made me 
laugh and made 
> me remember  the "not so good-old-days" of being a teenager, was 
Harry's 
> discomfort in asking  Cho to the ball.  They could not have done 
that scene any 
> more  convincingly.  And Cho was quite charming, as well.  For 
her  first-ever 
> role, I was impressed with how she handled that scene in  
particular.
>  
> I've rarely been impressed with child actors (it requires a GREAT  
director 
> to get a good performance out of most of them), but I've always 
been  impressed 
> with Dan, and not just because he was a cute little boy and is a  
handsome 
> young man.  He fits into Harry's skin so well  and makes you  see 
the "magic" of 
> the magical world through his eyes, as well as the horrors of  
Harry's own 
> life.  When Harry brought Cedric's body back, his body language  
and heartbroken 
> tears were perfect.  Newell did a marvelous job of  direction and 
of teaching 
> the kids how to reach down inside themselves and pull  out those 
extreme 
> emotions they needed to show in this one, as well as the  subtle 
ones.  Dan and 
> Rupert were simply fabulous.  Emma was way  over the top at times, 
and sometimes 
> her reactions were just illogical to  me.  She's been pretty good 
in all the 
> films, but this was her worst  performance in many scenes.  Her 
scenes in the 
> ball sequence were  wonderful, though.
>  
> That's enough of a rant for now.  I'm excited to see Dan 
in  "December Boys" 
> to see how well he can portray a different character, but I  think 
he'll be 
> fine.  Harry and Dan are very different people, with  different 
looks and body 
> language -- Dan has potential as a great character  actor as well 
as a leading 
> man, I think, simply because he can look so different  with only 
the addition 
> of glasses and the proper attitude, at such an early age.   
> 
> Lynda AKA "Abraxan"
> 
> Read my Harry Potter fics here:  
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>









From starjackson1 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 28 15:31:21 2005
From: starjackson1 at yahoo.com (starjackson1)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:31:21 -0000
Subject: GOF - My View!
Message-ID: <dmf7s9+caf5@eGroups.com>

For what it's worth:

I have seen the movie twice now, and I simply *adore* it. It is 
certainly the best one so far, and it will be a hard one to live up 
to when they do the remaing three films in the series. 

I have read a lot of fan reviews of GOF - and the main complaint 
seems to be that it did not follow the book - left tons of important 
stuff out - and made stuff up in some cases.

I am fortunate I guess, in the fact that I have not read GOF in a 
couple of years. So I am a bit sketchy on some of the plot. For that 
reason, the inconsistancies in this movie did not bother me at all.  

I just feel that if fans are going to be upset because so much of 
the books are left out of the films, and plot lines altered, they 
had better not go to the films anymore.  My own opinon is that 
people should enjoy the films for what they are and stop wishing for 
something else.  I can guarentee you that if you don't try to do 
that, you are going to be disappointed again and again.

The films will never do justice to the books. They can only be 
appoximations to the book, and nothing more.  That is the nature of 
film making.  Having said that, I am pleased with the way the films 
have indeed captured the spirit, and to a large extent the intention 
of the books. 

There are some things I don't like.  I don't like Michael Gambon as 
Dumbledore.  Richard Harris was wonderful in the role, and Gambon 
just doesn't get it right.  I think it's a lapse on his part, as an 
actor, that he did not do some research on his part and at least 
talked to JKR or read some of the books. 

Regarding characters, I don't think we will be seeing more of Flur 
in the movies. In the movie version of GOF, she does not meet Ron's 
brother Bill, so she can't fall in love with him and be engaged to 
him by "Half-Blood Prince".  So I think that whole story arch will 
be shut out.  

Regarding the *books* themselves, I found it odd that Victor Krum 
never made another apperance in a HP book after GOF.  Usually JKR 
doesn't introduce a character and then not bring them back sometime 
later.  

My two cents...








From hp at plum.cream.org  Mon Nov 28 19:01:32 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:01:32 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Dan's acting
In-Reply-To: <26e.b97267.30bc71c2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051128182112.00b61100@plum.cream.org>

At 14:44 28/11/2005 , Lynda wrote:

<VERY reluctantly, self-confessed "rant" snipped>

I was quite amused reading that (and the other contributions to this 
thread), because despite professing to disagree with me, not a single one 
of the examples proffered went against anything I've ever said (or thought, 
even if I'd not said it).

Let me repeat, for the record, something that I've said more than once, not 
only over the last few days about GoF, but in one way or another over the 
last five years, since the HP movies first appeared. Dan has incredibly 
expressive eyes, and if acting was all about looking 
scared/delighted/worried/etc./etc., he'd be getting Oscars (TM) for his 
performances.

Regrettably (for him), acting is about more. Dan has made tremendous 
strides forward (pun intended) with his physical acting since PS/SS and 
there's not really much I can fault him for overall in Gof (unlike CoS in 
particular, in which other than in action scenes, he walked like an 
automaton and his body movements were anything but naturalistic). And I 
have said several times how much this has improved.

However (and nothing in your "rant" disproved this), he still has a great 
deal of work to do to get dialogue delivery right. Most of his lines in GoF 
(although thankfully, not all) are spoken as if he's read them for the 
first time and is trying to work out what they mean. Sure, he's getting a 
LOT better than some of his cringe-worthy deliveries in PS/SS and CoS, but 
he still has a lot to learn.

Emma has an annoying tendency to over-act her lines, but because she's on 
screen for so much less of the time, it isn't quite as obvious (and for a 
lot of the stuff Hermione has to say, she is anxious or otherwise 
heightened, so it's not so bad).

>I've rarely been impressed with child actors (it requires a GREAT  director
>to get a good performance out of most of them),

Because most child actors depend on charm rather than acting ability to get 
by, any rational and dispassionate view of child performances must admit 
that they are, overall, "limited" (to be generous). There is good reason 
why child actors VERY rarely manage to get nominated alongside adults for 
major awards of any kind.

Haley Joel Osment's string of nominations and awards for The Sixth Sense 
several years ago was utterly deserved: although (like Dan), his doleful 
eyes did a lot of the work to make his character believable, he did a 
terrific job with every other aspect of his performance. The same goes for 
Jamie Bell in "Billy Elliott" or, indeed, the ensemble cast in "Stand By 
Me" (which is, for fear of getting boring, one of my favourite movies of 
all time, and one of the best examples of acting by 14 year olds in the 
history of cinema). Or, for that matter, current darling Dakota Fanning - 
whilst acting Tom Cruise off the screen  is no big deal (hehe), doing it to 
Denzel Washington (Man on Fire) or Robert de Niro (Hide and Seek) takes a 
LOT of doing!

Sorry, but none of the HP leads are anywhere in the same league as those 
other kids, so let's please have a bit of perspective when heaping on the 
praise.

>That's enough of a rant for now.  I'm excited to see Dan in  "December Boys"
>to see how well he can portray a different character, but I  think he'll be
>fine.

I sincerely hope so. Although it seems that Dan does seem to be making a 
speciality of playing downtrodden but spirited orphans. :-)




From rdas at facstaff.wisc.edu  Mon Nov 28 20:47:33 2005
From: rdas at facstaff.wisc.edu (susanbones2003)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:47:33 -0000
Subject: Dan's acting
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20051128182112.00b61100@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <dmfqd5+v93t@eGroups.com>

Richard,
You speak with tremendous authority about acting and the quality of 
acting we have seen from the trio and your points are well taken, 
but it seems this group, representing the characters that they do, 
are under a very unfair bunch of expectations. Just from reading 
your recent posts I just don't think the HP series of films belongs 
anywhere in serious film-making. Has there ever been a film made, or 
a series of films made from such a beloved and popular series of 
books? How could anyone (even Haley Joel Osment, for goodness 
sakes!) escape the pressure of bringing something as big as Harry 
Potter to life? Dan wasn't an actor. Maybe I have a tolerance for 
wooden delivery, but I found him very fresh. He did have child-like 
expressions and that came across very well in the first two movies. 
But I digress. Coming to the screen after such anticipation, how 
could the adaptations satisfy? I think my point, (not sure I have 
one at this juncture) is that just as we can not expect the films to 
include all the plot machinations, pershaps we have taken Dan, Emma 
and Rupert to our hearts and don't expect a "professional" 
performance from them. For me, honestly, I feel like I am watching 
my kid up there. I am so wanting him to be good that truthfully, any 
growth is a huge deal to me. I did see much to be proud of this 
time. He is coming along. It seems to fit that we have an amateur 
giving it his all. After all, itsn't that the British way? 
Pluckiness wins the day. And Dan gets my vote for plucking up his 
courage and doing this gig, even when really brilliant people tell 
lots of other folks he isn't really any good at it. 
JenD 






From poppytheelf at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 28 21:00:06 2005
From: poppytheelf at hotmail.com (Phyllis)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 21:00:06 -0000
Subject: GOF - Starjackson's View and some additional thoughts on GoF!Snape
In-Reply-To: <dmf7s9+caf5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dmfr4m+769e@eGroups.com>

starjackson wrote:

<<I don't like Michael Gambon as Dumbledore.  Richard Harris was 
wonderful in the role, and Gambon just doesn't get it right.  I 
think it's a lapse on his part, as an actor, that he did not do some 
research on his part and at least talked to JKR or read some of the 
books.>>

I much preferred Harris to Gambon as Dumbledore as well.  I think 
it's the same thing I've experienced in comparing Stephen Fry's 
audiotapes to Jim Dale's - Fry just seems to have so thoroughly 
absorbed the books, while Dale (despite his wonderful varied voices) 
just seems to be reading the text.  Harris struck me as having 
completely absorbed what it means to be Dumbledore, while Gambon (to 
me) is just acting the part.

The lack of the Harry-Dumbledore debriefing at the end of the last 2 
movies may be contributing to this, however.  There was only a short 
debrief in GoF, and none whatsoever in PoA, so Gambon has never had 
the one-on-one Harry debriefing opportunity Harris had in the first 
two movies.  To me, it's these sessions that form the bond that 
exists between Harry and Dumbledore - the bond that then becomes the 
reason why Dumbledore can't bring himself to tell Harry about the 
prophecy and the reason why Harry becomes so incensed when Snape 
kills Dumbledore.  I suspect the moviemakers cut them out in an 
attempt to keep things moving along and to not repeat information, 
but (IMO) this omission is going to come back to haunt them in the 
last 3 movies.

starjackson:

<<Regarding the *books* themselves, I found it odd that Victor Krum 
never made another apperance in a HP book after GOF.  Usually JKR 
doesn't introduce a character and then not bring them back sometime 
later.>>

I don't think Krum will be back in Book 7 - I think JKR just used 
him as a way to make Ron jealous and wake Ron up to his true 
feelings about Hermione.  Now that he's recognized this, and now 
that they're finally together at the end of HBP, I think Krum will 
remain a distant memory.

***

I had a few thoughts on GOF!Snape that I wanted to share.  I found 
it very out of character for Snape to say that Harry should try 
competing in the tournament after his name came out of the Goblet, 
rather than saying something akin to "Potter has been crossing lines 
ever since he came to this school."  I think if they had stuck with 
the book's version, the scene where Snape accused Harry of stealing 
ingredients from him and his threat to use Veritaserum would have 
been more understandable and believable.

Also, I know I can't expect the movie to follow the book in all 
respects, but I missed seeing Rickman blasting the rose bushes apart 
during the Yule Ball (wouldn't that have been more interesting than 
watching him hit Harry and Ron over the head repeatedly in study 
hall?) and not hearing his commentary on the Trio's "tangled love 
lives" during Potions class.  

~Phyllis







From laurenmcoakley at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 28 21:28:35 2005
From: laurenmcoakley at yahoo.com (laurenmcoakley)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 21:28:35 -0000
Subject: The Music
Message-ID: <dmfsq3+l5pt@eGroups.com>

Hello,

We've all been choosing one subject of the movie and have been hashing 
it out, but no one has (that I've noticed) mentioned what they thought 
of the music for GoF.  I have to say that I really DID miss Mr. 
Williams music in this film.  I enjoyed the film immensely, but felt 
the the musical themes were a little too flat...to bland for my 
taste.  

Your thoughts?  I'd love to hear them!






From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 28 21:35:36 2005
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora67)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 21:35:36 -0000
Subject: On Dan's acting
Message-ID: <dmft78+b0qt@eGroups.com>

I guess we are all going to see things differently on the subject of 
his acting.  There's no way around that, but that's what makes this 
such a great place for discussion! :D  

There's been very few child actors out there that I have ever really 
liked.  Okay, Macaulay Culkin was good in an impish sort of way, and 
so was Elijah Wood.  Again, he had/had that "expressive eyes" thing 
going on like Dan does.  Let's face it, Elijah Wood has done well as 
an actor, so there's time for Dan, too.  But how many have I really 
liked?  Not a lot.  And, unfortunately, Dakota Fanning I find a 
little annoying, but that's mostly because I think she is 
overexposed right now.  JMO, of course.

I like the way Dan brings Harry to life.  I see Harry as someone 
that stays in the background most of the time, just like he tried to 
stay out of the Dursley's way so as not to anger them.  So, I like 
the understated way he plays Harry.  Of course, Harry isn't destined 
to stay in the background all the time, we know that, and as the 
movies are progressing, I think Dan is getting better and much more 
at ease in front of the camera than in the first two.  But mostly I 
see Harry as someone that just wants to get on with life, but keeps 
getting thrust into the limelight, which he doesn't enjoy. I'm so 
horrible trying to put things on paper, which is why I lurk most of  
the time.  As an only child with very little family, I see a lot of 
myself in the character of Harry, and maybe that's why I like Dan's 
portrayal.  He's a little hesitant, tries to go through life without 
getting into too much trouble, but determined and strong when he 
needs to be, not to mention loyal.  I can't think of another actor I 
would rather see play Harry.  *LOL*  Does it sound like I am 
biased?  I guess I am ;).  

I thought Emma was good in most scenes, but not the classroom scene 
with Moody.  Why did they have her near to tears in that scene?  I 
suppose I just read that scene differently in the book.  I really 
think she was good, though, especially in the ball scenes.

As for Rupert Grint?  He gets better with every movie!  Great 
comedic timing, always.  He's working on another movie with Laura 
Linney that I want to see.  

My only hope for all the Harry Potter actors is that they get a 
chance to get past this point in their lives and do other acting 
jobs after this is all over.  I'd hate to see them stuck forever 
as "the Harry Potter kids", but, you know, there are worse things in 
life than that. 

Okay, this is quite a lengthy post so I will close it.  Thanks for 
listening. :)

Alora 






From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 28 21:43:03 2005
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora67)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 21:43:03 -0000
Subject: The Music
In-Reply-To: <dmfsq3+l5pt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dmftl7+gq68@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "laurenmcoakley" 
<laurenmcoakley at y...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> 
> We've all been choosing one subject of the movie and have been 
hashing 
> it out, but no one has (that I've noticed) mentioned what they 
thought 
> of the music for GoF.  I have to say that I really DID miss Mr. 
> Williams music in this film.  I enjoyed the film immensely, but felt 
> the the musical themes were a little too flat...to bland for my 
> taste.  
> 
> Your thoughts?  I'd love to hear them!

Yikes, I am posting a lot in one day! :O

I have listened to the soundtrack several times, and my son (almost 14)
has been blaring it for days from his room (yes, I am programming them 
into HP).  I like pretty much all of it,  yet I did miss that touch of 
John Williams, too.  I'm not sure what I expected, but it wasn't what 
I got.  I'm not saying I don't like it, because I do.  Does any of 
this make sense? o_O  

I like the Irish music a lot, and loved the part where he gets the 
golden egg.  Love the "Do the Hippogriff" song from the ball, too. 
Also, the music where Harry asks Cho to the ball seemed to fit well, 
and when we see him back in the common room, holding the egg on his 
chest, he looks so forlorn.  But where was that lovely haunting music 
from PoA?  I couldn't get enough of that soundtrack.  The music was so 
moving.  I guess we can say that since each of the movies is 
different, the soundtracks are different, too.  I wonder how much 
input the directors have when it comes to the music?  

I liked the GoF soundtrack, but not as much as PoA.  So much for my 
mixed up opinions! :D

Alora 







From hp at plum.cream.org  Mon Nov 28 22:17:36 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:17:36 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Dan's acting (with serious deviation)
In-Reply-To: <dmfqd5+v93t@eGroups.com>
References: <4.2.0.58.20051128182112.00b61100@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051128205905.00b884e0@plum.cream.org>

At 20:47 28/11/2005 , JenD replied to my previous:

>I just don't think the HP series of films belongs anywhere in serious 
>film-making.

The first two, maybe not (but then, Columbus isn't a serious film-maker of 
serious films, and I don't mean that disrespectfully). But Cuaron and 
Newell have shown that it's possible to make serious movies from this 
material which require the audience to use their grey cells and not just be 
passive onlookers, allowing the experience to wash over them. In some ways, 
this is similar to reactions to the books themselves: they can be analysed 
as deeply as one wants to.

The one thing that surprises (and, frankly, shocks) me about some elements 
in the online HP fandom is that sometimes the very people who are prepared 
to analyse the books with amazing literary precision and insight, dismiss 
people like myself who try to apply the same level of cinematic analysis to 
the movies. Am I wrong to consider the movies seriously?

I'm going to go a bit OT here with something I feel passionate about. 
However and wherever we're educated, we all spend a certain amount of our 
formal education learning literary analysis at some level or another, but 
very few people have any kind of introduction to analysing moving pictures 
(TV, cinema) in the same way, learning the grammar and structure of films 
so as to be able to discuss them rationally, the way we're all expected to 
be able to do with the written word. For various reasons, western culture 
has decided that the written word, including plays, are Important (capital 
"I")  to our heritage, but the moving image, being an extremely young art 
form, isn't seen as worthy of genuine, detailed study as part of a general 
education. Considering it is the dominant art form of our generation, I 
find this saddening and even troubling.

We end up with a self-selecting group of cinephiles who end up discussing 
this or that movie while the world looks on and considers them (well, us... 
:-) as somewhat strange. Yet sitting around classrooms discussing one 
sentence of a book is seen as "intellectually valid". While some sections 
of the literary establishment consider adult HP fans as something of an 
aberration, that the material doesn't *deserve* the degree of analysis to 
which we submit it, are some sections of HP fandom not doing exactly the 
same thing by accusing cinephiles of taking the movies "too seriously"?

And then, of course, there's the core question: despite my comments last 
night about the movies being an "abbreviated" version of the books, does 
that necessarily make them less worthwhile? I assume that my answer to that 
question is obvious, but everyone should ask that question of themselves.

As far as GoF goes, I found the book meandering, unfocussed and 
under-edited (even moreso when it comes to OotP) and it doesn't pain me in 
the slightest to admit that I MUCH prefer the movie to the book (despite 
the couple of reservations I've raised before), and as IMO OotP is even 
more meandering, etc than GoF, I'm hoping that a better job still will be 
made of it.

>Has there ever been a film made, or a series of films made from such a 
>beloved and popular series of books?

Yes, actually. For just one example, although I wasn't around at the time, 
Gone With The Wind was considered an aberration on its release, despite now 
being considered a classic (and the book was amazingly popular, arguably an 
even bigger hit in relative terms in its time than the HP books are now). 
There was a backlash against the Bond books being made into the movies 
until they took off, as well.

<snip>

>It seems to fit that we have an amateur giving it his all. After all, 
>itsn't that the British way?

The definition of "amateur" (in this context) with which I was brought up 
was "someone who is not paid to do a job for which others are paid". He is 
being paid very handsomely to do a job. I think we're entitled to expect 
that he does it well. In any case, four movies in, he's hardly an amateur 
anymore.

>Pluckiness wins the day. And Dan gets my vote for plucking up his courage 
>and doing this gig, even when really brilliant people tell lots of other 
>folks he isn't really any good at it.

I have no problems with Dan's courage (though personally, I am more 
impressed by the courage of an unarmed police officer who enters a 
dangerous situation, or a firefighter who kicks people out of a burning 
building only to run in himself). :-)

I have problems with people saying he's something he isn't. Namely: a great 
actor. At least, not yet. Although I have every hope he has it inside him 
to become one.





From hp at plum.cream.org  Mon Nov 28 22:21:44 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:21:44 +0000
Subject: PS: The British Way
In-Reply-To: <dmfqd5+v93t@eGroups.com>
References: <4.2.0.58.20051128182112.00b61100@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051128221934.00b135b0@plum.cream.org>

Sorry for the on-liner. I couldn't refuse myself. :-)

At 20:47 28/11/2005 , Jen wrote:
>It seems to fit that we have an amateur giving it his all. After all, 
>isn't that the British way?

The British way is for the amateur to give it all *AND FAIL*. :-)

--
Richard, always happy to poke fun at stereotypes. ;-)





From laurenmcoakley at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 28 22:48:40 2005
From: laurenmcoakley at yahoo.com (laurenmcoakley)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:48:40 -0000
Subject: Favorite scene amongst all four movies?
In-Reply-To: <dmd7uf+2cvb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dmg1g8+pcid@eGroups.com>

>
> --- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Diana" <dianasdolls at y...> wrote:
> 
> > What is your favorite scene amongst all four movies.  If you can't 
narrow it down to just one scene from all of the four movies, then 
favorite scene per movie is fine.
> 
> > Diana L.

Let's see if I can do this...

SS: I really liked the wizard's chess obstacle.  I thought this whole 
scene was great.

CoS: Quidditch.  How much do I wish this game really exisited?!

PoA: Hmm...scene?  How about segment?  I just really enjoyed how they 
did the time travel piece beginning with Hermione using the Time 
Turner with Harry.  If I were to have to turn that book into a script, 
I don't think I could've done a better job of it.

GoF: This is the hardest to decide on, because I just can't convey how 
much I loved this entire movie, but the scene I got a huge kick out of 
was when Fred (or George?) asked (well, gestured anyway) Angelina to 
the Yule Ball, and then winked at Ron.  I adore the twins in the 
books, and I just loved how they got to shine in this film so much!  






From rdas at facstaff.wisc.edu  Mon Nov 28 23:28:01 2005
From: rdas at facstaff.wisc.edu (susanbones2003)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 23:28:01 -0000
Subject: Dan's acting (with serious deviation)
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20051128205905.00b884e0@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <dmg3q1+ekph@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Richard <hp at p...> wrote:
Okay Richard,
I'd just finished watching "Chariots of Fire" (a good movie?) and 
that's what got me thinking of the amateur vs. the professional. I 
do agree with you that our education in the art of film is sorely 
lacking. I guess that's what leads us to spend so much money seeing 
so many bad films these days. I am glad you pointed out the two 
previous films/series of films that were as well known and perhaps 
as beloved. I plowed my way through "GWTW" as a younger person and 
believe me, the film adaptation was amazing. The novel was over-long 
and the cuts made for a wonderful film. I wouldn't have wanted all 
the little side bits in. As for Dan and his acting ability, I love 
him and therefore will stop talking about him. 

What I'd really like to talk with you about is the art and nature of 
adaptation. It's long been a very keen interest of mine. 
What makes an adaptation work? I got called a literalist because I 
didn't think POA had enough plot in it to say grace over. Isn't plot 
important? And my point about these films in the earlier post was, 
with so many threads in each book, how can HP ever be adequately 
adapted? I am very happy about a lot of things in GOF, but so 
many things had to be left out, how will the next film stand without 
the deep connection to Serius that was formed in GOF? That 
connection changed so completely from GOF to OOTP. I know there are 
plenty of ways to suggest things but at some point, don't we need a 
little depiction of things? Was Chris Columbus' major fault that he 
was a literalist? That he made little set pieces put together with 
soaring music? He was unimaginative? Or slavishly devoted to JKR's 
work as it stood? Cuaron was lyrical but perhaps he could have cut 
out one or two little vanities to include a bit more time in the 
Shrieking Shack? I will be the first to admit I do not know how to 
evaluate these films if I am not supposed to care about the plot. 
Tell me if you can, how important is it?
JenD






From gardengirlgarden at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 29 02:42:34 2005
From: gardengirlgarden at yahoo.com (Michelle Chandler)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 21:42:34 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] The Music
References: <dmfsq3+l5pt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <0cf801c5f48e$8e53b0f0$6402a8c0@GARDENROOM>

I did NOT care for the soundtrack when I saw the movie in the theater, which I've only done once so far. However, I have been listening to it at home and it's really growing on me. That last Weird Sisters tune is SO melancholy! :::sniffle:::

Did anyone else notice a strong similarity to the LOTR theme in the music from the opening credits?

Michelle

"He who follows truth too closely at the heels might get kicked in the teeth."
-Sir Walter Ralegh 1552-1618
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: laurenmcoakley 
  To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 4:28 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] The Music


  Hello,

  We've all been choosing one subject of the movie and have been hashing 
  it out, but no one has (that I've noticed) mentioned what they thought 
  of the music for GoF.  I have to say that I really DID miss Mr. 
  Williams music in this film.  I enjoyed the film immensely, but felt 
  the the musical themes were a little too flat...to bland for my 
  taste.  

  Your thoughts?  I'd love to hear them!





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From 12499 at msn.com  Tue Nov 29 04:07:09 2005
From: 12499 at msn.com (pitaprh)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 04:07:09 -0000
Subject: Voldemort
Message-ID: <dmgk5d+i77i@eGroups.com>

Was anyone else disappointed in the end?  I in no way felt the evil 
that Voldemort should ooze.  That was the only part that I was worried 
about my kids seeing. I was the movie at midnight and then took them 
that weekend because I thought his scene was weak.  I agree with one 
poster that he would have been better hooded.  

Don't like Michael Gambon as Dumbledore either.  What is with him 
grabing Harry and yelling at him after his name is spit from the 
goblet.  That is so not Dumbledore !

Overall awesome movie ! 

 






From dk59us at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 29 04:32:12 2005
From: dk59us at yahoo.com (Eustace_Scrubb)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 04:32:12 -0000
Subject: GOF - My View!
In-Reply-To: <dmf7s9+caf5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dmglkc+evdi@eGroups.com>

starjackson1 wrote:

> I have read a lot of fan reviews of GOF - and the main complaint 
> seems to be that it did not follow the book - left tons of important 
> stuff out - and made stuff up in some cases.

Eustace_Scrubb:
I don't mind the tons of left-out stuff too much (see below), but I
don't especially like it when they take something out and make up
something else that fills the same function but is no better...in this
movie the "living" maze replacing the sphinx and the spider, for example.

starjackson1:
> My own opinon is that 
> people should enjoy the films for what they are and stop wishing for 
> something else.  I can guarentee you that if you don't try to do 
> that, you are going to be disappointed again and again.
> 
> The films will never do justice to the books. They can only be 
> appoximations to the book, and nothing more.  That is the nature of 
> film making.  Having said that, I am pleased with the way the films 
> have indeed captured the spirit, and to a large extent the intention 
> of the books. 

Eustace_Scrubb:
Hear, hear (for the most part)!  Having now seen three LOTR and four
HP movies, I have come to view the relationship between the books and
the movies as something similar to two manifestations of the same oral
tradition.  I do have to remind myself of that every time I go to the
theatre and will be repeating it regularly as The Lion The Witch and
the Wardrobe's opening approaches.

I don't think that the first two HP movies were as successful as POA
and GOF in capturing the books' spirit.  I think I'd attribute that to
the differing approaches of the directors involved more than anything
else.


starjackson1:
> There are some things I don't like.  I don't like Michael Gambon as 
> Dumbledore.  Richard Harris was wonderful in the role, and Gambon 
> just doesn't get it right.  I think it's a lapse on his part, as an 
> actor, that he did not do some research on his part and at least 
> talked to JKR or read some of the books. 

Eustace_Scrubb:
I have to differ here.  Harris was alright in PS/SS, though a bit too
nice for my taste.  He must already have been quite ill when they were
filming CoS; he seemed frail in a way I never envisioned Dumbledore
until reading HBP this past summer.  Gambon gives the character a
harder edge that definitely appears more in the later
books--Dumbledore hasn't made it to 150 (or whatever) just by being
kindly and slightly wacky, though those are important parts of his
character.  I don't think his performance is definitive...he really
didn't appear enough in POA and the post-selection scene in GOF where
he pounces on Harry is definitely over the top--but I quite like him
overall.  I rather hope that they include the OoP scene in DD's office
where he escapes from Fudge and Umbridge after the D.A. is
discovered--I think Gambon should be able to pull that off well, while
I really couldn't see Harris in that scene.

Just my own 2 cents...

Cheers,

Eustace_Scrubb






From richlauraelaina at sbcglobal.net  Tue Nov 29 05:06:24 2005
From: richlauraelaina at sbcglobal.net (richandlaura1)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 05:06:24 -0000
Subject: Favorite scene amongst all four movies?
In-Reply-To: <dmbh62+4ffo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dmgnkg+fvl1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Diana" <dianasdolls at y...> wrote:
> What is your favorite scene amongst all four movies.  If you can't 
> narrow it down to just one scene from all of the four movies, then 
> favorite scene per movie is fine.
> 
Hi there,
Coming out of lurkdom to give my opinion of the best scene.  I 
believe - the portkey return to Hogwarts with everyone 
applauding/standing (happy as can be) and Cedric flat on his back, 
eyes wide open with Harry colapsed on top of him (with extreme 
grief) - was THE most brilliant scene in any of the Harry Potter 
films.  The great contrast between emotional states and then the 
slow disintegration of the crowd from elated to confused to shock 
and sorrow, gave me goosebumps all over.  I was drawn in; living the 
movie as though it were really happening in front of me.  That's the 
first time I wasn't able to watch with a analytical point of view.  
A lump swelled in my throat as I listened to Cedric's father mourn 
the loss of his son.  IMO this scene in GoF is the best by far!
Thanks for letting me put in my 2 cents,
Laura









From hp at plum.cream.org  Tue Nov 29 12:28:14 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:28:14 +0000
Subject: Adaptation
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051129120714.00b16ae0@plum.cream.org>

I wrote this last night, but it doesn't seem to have turned up on Yahoo, so 
I'm sending it again. (I've also corrected a couple of significant factual 
mistakes in the original for which I blame attempting to think straight at 
after 4am.)

At 23:28 28/11/2005 , Jen wrote:

>I'd just finished watching "Chariots of Fire" (a good movie?)

(Sorry about the OT moment, but you asked for it.) :-)

For fear of being dubbed an iconoclast (in the original meaning of the 
word...), I found it a load of pretentious twaddle. Maybe it's just because 
I can't STAND the music and it really turned me off the whole film. 
Furthermore,  sportsmen beating the odds has been the subject of far too 
many movies (most of them better than CoF) and as I find athletics in 
particular utterly boring, there is very little about CoF that would entice 
me to watch it again.

Just an opinion. :-)

>What makes an adaptation work? I got called a literalist because I didn't 
>think POA had enough plot in it to say grace over. Isn't plot important?

Depends on what you mean by "plot". As it happens, while the fandom was 
always very pre-occupied with how GoF might be made into a single movie, I 
was always much more concerned about PoA: it's the most tightly-plotted of 
the books and, partially because of that, my favourite. I had reservations 
about how Kloves might unravel the various elements and then re-combine 
them to make a movie of bearable length, given that about half of the book 
would have to be cut.

Cuaron made his choices of what the movie was about and Kloves (apparently) 
went about re-writing the script to make it fit that vision. To paraphrase 
what I've said recently, for most fans, PoA is about WMPP and because 
Cuaron saw it differently, many fans consider the plot slight, because 
well, it's not about what they want it to be about. I have some problems 
with the adaptation, but unlike many, that doesn't cause me to dismiss the 
film out of hand. Again, as I've said recently, one of the things I admire 
about both PoA and GoF is that the directors have tried to tell the 
cinematically (regrettably, on occasion let down by Kloves's klunky 
writing) rather than attempting to retell the same story in the same linear 
fashion.

More in a moment.

>And my point about these films in the earlier post was, with so many 
>threads in each book, how can HP ever be adequately adapted?

By choosing which threads to include, and which to overlook. Much of the 
pleasure in reading the books is what the fandom terms "foreshadowing" (a 
term I generally don't like when it's used nine times out of ten, but 
that's a different discussion) - with the movies, that's a bit difficult, 
because from one movie to the next, the team doesn't know exactly what's 
going to get dropped. For instance, Kloves apparently didn't start working 
on the script for OotP until last Christmas, when GoF was 2/3 into its 
shoot and no director had been chosen yet. It's fairly difficult to work on 
a movie serial in such circumstances.

To take a very specific example, I can think of several ways to tell the 
story of CoS without having Dobby there at all. The character annoys the 
hell out of me, and his cinematic representation even more so. At the time 
of writing the script, nobody had any idea that the entire House-Elf 
sub-plot would be cut from GoF, while Dobby's presence (and his journey) 
was largely set up in the book to pave the way for Winky and SPEW. I have a 
niggling suspicion at the back of my mind that Kreacher will be cut from 
OotP as well. Under the circumstances, Dobby's presence in CoS makes no 
sense at all in terms of the whole series. Ditto for the Map (which has 
caused oh-so-many-arguments) in PoA.

As most of us have said, on this list or elsewhere (and I assume ALL of us 
think), that attempting to adapt an series which involves this many 
characters and events before the source material has been completed is pure 
lunacy. I don't have a problem with individual instalments being handled by 
different directors (I am hugely in favour of it, actually), but I do have 
a problem directly with JKR for not having the basic decency to let Kloves, 
Heyman and the directors know what they need to know about the series' end 
game.

To answer your question most directly, though, five years ago, I said that 
the way to adapt the Potter books is to make a TV series, one season per 
book, with each season as long as it needs to be. I stand by that statement.

Not, I have always said, primarily because it offers more screen time, but 
because of the episodic nature of the plots - this requires an episodic 
adaptation. The main advantage in terms of time is that because it would be 
*shown* over a period of months, the adaptation would have an easier way 
with what is one of the most difficult things to convey in the movies' 
limited running time: the passage of the school year.

>I am very happy about a lot of things in GOF, but so many things had to be 
>left out, how will the next film stand without the deep connection to 
>Serius that was formed in GOF? That connection changed so completely from 
>GOF to OOTP.

Well, I had a problem with the Harry-Sirius relationship in the *book* 
anyway, mainly between the end of PoA and the start of GoF. Why Harry 
considers Sirius a more important correspondent for advice than Dumbledore 
is something which always baffled me. How they became so close (as far as 
Harry is concerned) despite spending just a few moments together feels 
strained to me. Their relationship in GoF was pretty fully formed at the 
beginning, and didn't really undergo any change or deepening by the end of 
that book. Their interactions at the beginning of OotP were on more or less 
on the same level as they were at the end of PoA.

I therefore see no problem with Movie!OotP taking off where we left the 
relationship, with Sirius' only GoF appearance.

>I know there are plenty of ways to suggest things but at some point, don't 
>we need a little depiction of things? Was Chris Columbus' major fault that 
>he was a literalist? That he made little set pieces put together with 
>soaring music? He was unimaginative? Or slavishly devoted to JKR's work as 
>it stood?

A bit of all of the above, but I suspect that his main problem was that he 
was simply terrified of the fans' reactions if he'd changed too much. He 
needed the fans on his side to sell not only the movie, but the concept of 
the franchise, because obviously the core audience would be the books' 
readers. Once the franchise was under way, the fans would have made up 
their minds about whether or not to see further movies. In that respect, he 
did the job Warners expected of him.

>Cuaron was lyrical but perhaps he could have cut out one or two little 
>vanities to include a bit more time in the Shrieking Shack? I will be the 
>first to admit I do not know how to evaluate these films if I am not 
>supposed to care about the plot.

Like I said above, the issue is, to an extent, that what you think is the 
plot isn't what Cuaron thinks the plot is. Cuaron told the story he wanted 
to tell in the way he wanted to tell it, and I'm more than satisfied with 
both. I have no problem with you (and others) not sharing that view, but I 
will continue to enthuse about mine. :-)

A more general comment on adaptation on which to finish and think about. 
When adapting a popular or well-known text, there is the possibility of 
borrowing the concept of "negative space"  from the representational arts 
(which consists of representing not the object in question, but by 
representing *everything else*, so for instance, rather than drawing a 
table, you draw, in precise detail, the space around it, leaving a perfect 
table-shaped hole - it still a table, but by inference rather than reference).

In cinematic terms, there are several approaches. In a simplistic 
understanding, for instance, you don't show your main protagonist at all - 
the whole movie is seen "though his eyes", fairly literally. (Several 
movies have been made that way; I can't think of any which have been 
successful.)

In a more complex understanding of the concept, you *assume* that your 
audience knows the source material, and rather than attempt to tell the 
same story, you tell a side-story, or just a sketch of the main story, 
focusing on smaller elements which aren't so big in the original story: you 
leave the audience to make up the plot for themselves and fill in the gaps 
according to their own understanding of the source material.

Alternatively, you do what Charlie Kaufman did a couple of years ago: when 
tasked with adapting the book "The Orchid Thief" (about which the word 
"unadaptable" was used quite freely), he wrote a movie about the process of 
adapting the book, which nevertheless presents the story of the book in 
"negative space", by very pointedly NOT presenting the story... And thus I 
come full circle, changing the subject title of this message to the movie's 
title.

--
Richard, who was only drawn to thinking about "Adaptation" because he's 
just been watching an interview/acting masterclass with Nicolas Cage on TV, 
which went into some detail about that movie.



From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Tue Nov 29 13:26:32 2005
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 13:26:32 -0000
Subject: Review of GoF; spoilers
In-Reply-To: <p06110401bfaa99a63357@[217.154.252.166]>
Message-ID: <dmhku8+rc43@eGroups.com>

nicholas dean wrote:
> I found GoF very much of a mixed bag. 
<snip>
> The pluses:-
<snip>
> - Ron given a greater range of emotion; no longer just comic 
> relief, this time around he was played much closer to his character 
> in the books.
> 
> - The scene where Ron had asked Fleur to the Yule Ball. Brilliantly 
> acted.
> 
> - The editing (in agreement with Richard), particularly the cut 
> from the end of the first task to the Gryffindor Common Room. I 
> smiled to think of what Chris Columbus would have done with the end 
> of the first task; at least three laps of the stadium on the 
> Firebolt, with everyone cheering (even the Slytherins and 
> Durmstrangs).

SSSusan:
LOL!!  Isn't this the truth?  I'd not considered this, but you've 
nailed it. :-)


nicholas:
> However, I really disliked the camerawork in the Yule Ball 
> sequence. Way too choppy.
>
> Minuses;
> 
> - The ending was very weak. It was never going to be an easy thing 
> to film,  as a sense of anti-climax, combined with grief and 
> foreboding, is not a great way to end a movie. What they came up 
> with was just too wishy-washy. 
> 
> -The maze. I thought it was incredibly badly done.  <snip> I didn't 
> really expect there to be all of the challenges of the book, but a 
> few would have been nice. 
<snip>
> But my main objection to GoF is with the storytelling.  ... the 
> book does a good job of letting the reader know that things are 
> going on behind the scenes and that Voldemort is indeed closing in 
> on Harry. The movie, however, fails to do this....
<snip> 
> This is the reason why it was a mistake to all but write out Sirius 
> from the movie; because in the book, it is he alone who keeps his 
> focus firmly on Harry, and it is Sirius who keeps reminding the 
> reader that something else is going on.
> 
> Quite apart from the damage to the internal logic of the story, how 
> in the world are they going to explain Harry's devastation at the 
> loss of Sirius at the end of OoP? They have done nothing to show 
> the ongoing relationship and to persuade us that Sirius has become 
> a father-figure to Harry.


SSSusan:
Fascinating review.  I had been annoyed by a couple of the same 
things you were (choppy Yule Ball scene, leaving *no* tasks inside 
the maze), impressed by many of the same things (Rupert in the post-
asking-Fleur scene, Dan underwater), and concerned about some of what 
was left out.  

However, you've made it exceedingly clear WHY leaving out Oldman so 
drastically may make the OOP movie very difficult to pull off 
indeed.  Not to mention that it's a new *screenwriter* (Michael 
Goldenberg) for OOP as well.  Was he privvy to what Kloves was/wasn't 
doing in GoF?  Did he trust Kloves/Newell to set up the Sirius-Harry 
closeness for him?  You're right that this could be problematic, or 
could force the Goldenberg/Yates team to have to spend some serious 
time (and where will they get *that*?) demonstrating to us... 
somehow... that Harry & Sirius are very close.  Not only would that 
take some time, it might not "fit" well with the OOP story, because 
by the start of OOP, Harry's in CAPSLOCK! mode, and Sirius is surly 
and mopey about being stuck at 12GP.  

I was already worried about OOP translating to film... now I'm even 
more worried.

Siriusly Snapey Susan







From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Tue Nov 29 13:35:03 2005
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 13:35:03 -0000
Subject: Best character scenes
In-Reply-To: <f9a2506faff3a259a4503fcb18016361@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <dmhle7+o0v4@eGroups.com>

Valerie Flowe wrote:
> Harry: This is a broom closet.
> Rita Skeeter: Well then you should feel right at home!
> 
> Can you BELIEVE she said THAT?!?! What an evil, hateful wench!
 

SSSusan:
Well, d'oh!!  I just now GOT that!  I was thinking she was referring to 
his feeling at home because of his *flying* skills and all the time he 
spends on a broom.  Of course *now* I see that she meant his having 
lived in a closet!  (Sometimes I'm truly dense. ::shakes head at self::)

What I couldn't believe was what Rita said just before that -- 
something like "It's COZY in here, isn't it?" with her chest about 2 
inches from Harry's face!  Very much a come-on kind of line.

Siriusly Snapey Susan







From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Tue Nov 29 13:59:29 2005
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 13:59:29 -0000
Subject: More future casting
In-Reply-To: <dmcflr+is0h@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dmhms1+ihet@eGroups.com>

Alora wrote:
> As long as we are on the subject of casting, has anyone read this 
> article?  I found it over at Mugglenet.   It's very funny, and has 
> some really good ideas as who to cast for OotP.  
> 
> http://www.cinematical.com/2005/11/20/cinematical-seven-brits-to-cast-
> in-harry-potter/


SSSusan:
Thanks for the link -- that was fun.

I enjoyed reading the comments and finding additional suggestions.  My 
two favs were:  Helen Mirren as Mrs. Black and Daniel Day-Lewis as 
Fenrir Greyback.  Both seem inspired to me.

Siriusly Snapey Susan, still holding out for Anjelica Huston as 
Bellatrix, by virtue of her having lived in Ireland so long!








From artsylynda at aol.com  Tue Nov 29 14:49:31 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 09:49:31 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Phyllis's GoF Review
Message-ID: <6d.527ea091.30bdc47b@aol.com>

 
 
In a message dated 11/29/2005 7:30:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com writes:

One of  the biggest expenses in filming the 
movies to date is the limited amount  of time the kids can be in front of 
the cameras (thankfully, British laws  being what they are, this is no 
longer an issue when it comes to Dan)  

Dan has said several times in interviews that he plans to stay on  the same 
schedule he's been on, because he's still going to school (tutoring)  and he 
likes the way he's been working.  So the extra hours they're ABLE to  have him 
may not happen for a while yet.  Just FYI.  

Lynda AKA "Abraxan"

Read my Harry Potter fics here:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From artsylynda at aol.com  Tue Nov 29 14:51:45 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 09:51:45 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Dan's acting
Message-ID: <279.ba5cbb.30bdc501@aol.com>

 
 
In a message dated 11/29/2005 7:30:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com writes:

Dan is  the weakest link, HOWEVER - he has steadily improved over the 
life of this  films, and he gave a fine performance in GOF (Dan is 16 
years old by the  way.  In the film Harry is 14 years old).   


Dan was 14 when they started filming, 15 when they finished. He  turned 16 
this summer while the film was in post-production.  

Lynda AKA "Abraxan"

Read my Harry Potter fics here:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 29 16:33:00 2005
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora67)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:33:00 -0000
Subject: Worried about OoP
In-Reply-To: <dmhku8+rc43@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dmhvrs+5ts1@eGroups.com>

> However, you've made it exceedingly clear WHY leaving out Oldman 
so 
> drastically may make the OOP movie very difficult to pull off 
> indeed.  Not to mention that it's a new *screenwriter* (Michael 
> Goldenberg) for OOP as well.  Was he privvy to what Kloves 
was/wasn't 
> doing in GoF?  Did he trust Kloves/Newell to set up the Sirius-
Harry 
> closeness for him?  You're right that this could be problematic, 
or 
> could force the Goldenberg/Yates team to have to spend some 
serious 
> time (and where will they get *that*?) demonstrating to us... 
> somehow... that Harry & Sirius are very close.  Not only would 
that 
> take some time, it might not "fit" well with the OOP story, 
because 
> by the start of OOP, Harry's in CAPSLOCK! mode, and Sirius is 
surly 
> and mopey about being stuck at 12GP.  
> 
> I was already worried about OOP translating to film... now I'm 
even 
> more worried.
> 
> Siriusly Snapey Susan

Susan, you're not the only worried one!  I've been going over  this 
in my mind, trying to figure out how they are going to set all this 
up (quickly) in OoP.  My guess is they are going to chop up the 
story as they did for GoF.  Nooooooo!  But what choice do we have?  
There are days when I wish they would let a RABID HP fan write the 
script ;D

Alora 







From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Tue Nov 29 17:04:18 2005
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 17:04:18 -0000
Subject: Favorite scene amongst all four movies?
In-Reply-To: <dmd7uf+2cvb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dmi1mi+kruh@eGroups.com>

Diana:
> > What is your favorite scene amongst all four movies.  

Cyndi:
> I hesitate to admit this is my favorite scene of all the movies
> because so many on these lists have said the hate it, but here 
> goes.... I absolutely love the scene in PoA with Harry riding 
> Buckbeak over the lake.  I think it screams of Harry's love of 
> flying and his desire to be free of all the awful things that have 
> occured in his life.  The first time I saw PoA in the theater, I 
> was a little let down, except for that scene.  It gave me chills.  
> I have since bought the soundtrack for PoA, and each time I get to 
> that portion of the music I get chills yet again.


SSSusan:
Hey, call me sappy, but I LOVED that scene in PoA, too.  In fact, I 
love that *whole* Hagrid's CoMC class scene, not just the flight over 
the lake.  What I especially notice about it every time I watch it is 
the beauty of the lighting -- dappled sunlight coming through the 
leaves -- as well as the greeness of things in contrast to the white 
tree trunks, the way the kids know they can be informal with their 
uniforms in Hagrid's class, then the soaring over the lake.  It's 
such a visual treat.  So the sunlight in the clearing doesn't match 
the very grey & cloudy bit while Harry & Buckbeak fly over the lake, 
so what? ;-)  I still love the way the clearing in the forest looks.  
And that piece of music is my favorite of the soundtrack, as well, 
and adds greatly to the moment.

I'm still thinking about my favorite scenes from the other three 
movies.  

Siriusly Snapey Susan







From surreal_44 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 29 17:58:22 2005
From: surreal_44 at yahoo.com (Krissy)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 17:58:22 -0000
Subject: Worried about OoP
In-Reply-To: <dmhvrs+5ts1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dmi4ru+8dpp@eGroups.com>

>>Susan, you're not the only worried one!  I've been going over  this 
in my mind, trying to figure out how they are going to set all this 
up (quickly) in OoP.  My guess is they are going to chop up the 
story as they did for GoF.  Nooooooo!  But what choice do we have?  
There are days when I wish they would let a RABID HP fan write the 
script ;D

Alora <<


I haven't seen GoF yet, so I don't know how much they've chopped up
the book, although I understand why they would do such a thing.
However, I do think people are highly over-estimating the absolute
need for Sirius to have appeared in GoF.


He writes to Harry what...four or five times in GoF, and speaks to him
once in the fire, right? That would barely be enough to have Harry be
completely bonded to Sirius. I think alot of the bonding happens in
OoP when they stay together.









From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Tue Nov 29 18:08:10 2005
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:08:10 -0000
Subject: Inconsistency and Incoherence/GOF!Movie!DD/JKR's input to the script
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20051128001126.00b02260@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <dmi5ea+t0c3@eGroups.com>

Lupinlore wrote:
Here is where JKR and/or the Kloves get into trouble with a lot of
the adults, and most particularly with Dumbledore. We have a
Dumbledore who acts in the decision scene at odds with how he
professes in the rest of the film to feel about Harry, and at
somewhat odds with the character as we've been led to view him.
Now, that, I think is what has led to a lot of Manipulative!
Dumbledore speculation on this and other issues, since I think a very
natural reaction to that kind of inconsistency is to preserve
coherence of the character by assuming dishonesty and manipulative
behavior. Indeed, unlike the case with JKR's book, we are flat out
invited to believe that by Kloves' screenplay.

The problem is very difficult. We have a Dumbledore in the "decision" 
scene (and to an extent in his final conversation with Harry) who 
seems to deliberately decide to leave Harry in the tournament as 
bait. That runs against the picture we've been given of Dumbledore. 
It also runs against Dumbledore's seeming feelings for Harry. 
Finally, it cuts across some of the other speeches Dumbledore gives 
in the movie - most especially the scene where he tries to browbeat 
Fudge into calling off the tournament. Why? If it has become too 
dangerous, and he IS able to withdraw Harry and Cedric, why does he 
not do so? If he isn't able to withdraw Harry and Cedric because of a 
magical contract, why on earth doesn't he just say that in 
the "decision" scene?

Given that inconsistency, the natural reaction is to preserve the
coherence of his character by postulating that he is sometimes being
dishonest and manipulative. This is, I think, an instinctive
application of the "real person" standard.
<snip>
To add further mud to the waters, we are of course dealing with
Kloves' interpretation of the book, and we have no real idea how much
input JKR has into the process.

Richard responded:
I do agree that the script muddies the water a bit, but I suspect 
that the *intention* of the various authors of the scene was along 
those lines.


SSSusan:
This was a fabulous summary of where the problem lies for the "die-
hard" HP fan trying to grapple with what we've been presented in 
Movie!DD in GoF, I really believe.  If a person isn't all that 
familiar with canon!DD (who, while not *the* most straightforward in 
fans' minds, given the Puppetmaster!DD interpretation of him vs. the 
EpitomeOfGoodness!DD interpretation, is still more CONSISTENT as LL's 
defines that), there's a bit to puzzle over in the GoF movie.  If, 
however, the person *is* very familiar with canon!DD, no matter 
his/her interpretation of him, the INCONSISTENCY we see in GoFmovie!
DD is more than a *bit* puzzling ? it's downright head-scratching and 
brow-furrowing.

It's the attempt to *reconcile* the two DDs ? movie and book ? which 
makes things difficult.

As to Kloves' interpretation muddying the waters, I personally think 
this is exactly what's happened.  I don't believe Jo has a whole lot 
of input, frankly.  She might step in and say, "Oh my goodness, no!" 
if someone wanted to insert something totally UNfactual (e.g., 
Cuaron's proposed Hogwarts graveyard in PoA), but I've never read 
anything which indicates that she's done much by way of "interfering" 
(or assisting!) with interpretation of a character.  (Hence the 
problem for directors/screenwriters re: Snape, as Lupinlore 
mentioned.)  So I think Kloves himself painted a DD which is not only 
not exactly a match to canon but which is inconsistent *within* the 
screenplay.  And more...

Lupinlore wrote:
Perhaps, however, she DID have some major input into the script. If
so, this raises some interesting questions, and would explain part of
the inconsistencies in GoF!Movie!Dumbledore. We would basically have
a screenplay with three sets of fingerprints -- Kloves, JKR, and
Newell <snip>.

Richard added:
You're forgetting another very important set of fingerprints: that of 
the actor. Michael Gambon, by his own admission, has not read the 
books, and expects the script to convey everything he needs to know 
(with, of course, a little input from the director - whose job, after 
all, is to *direct*!).  :-) To my knowledge, neither Gambon nor 
Harris had any direct contact with JKR.

I think I also caught a production comment somewhere that another
controversial moment, DD grabbing Harry's shoulders during that same 
scene, was Gambon's idea, and Newell let him run with it. 


SSSusan:
Yes.  I think, as I said above, that Kloves must have been less than 
perfectly careful with his drawing of DD here, though perhaps it is 
the presence of the other sets of fingerprints which has made it 
difficult, too.  From what I've read, not only has Gambon not read 
the books, Newell has not read the full series.  If they had 
much "say" in how to present DD in GoF, then it's even more 
understandable why what we get doesn't "fit" for what I'd call the 
Careful Fan. ;-)  In this scenario, with Newell and Gambon having 
less base for drawing an "accurate" DD, I'd put more of the blame for 
inconsistency or incoherence upon Kloves, who certainly has read all 
of the books and loves them.  I'm puzzled why he'd have not 
recognized the problems inherent in the "decision" scene, the issue 
of the binding magical contract, and (to a lesser extent, because I 
think more of this comes from Gambon) of DD's feelings towards Harry.


Richard wrote:
The fact that the movie-going public has had two very, very different
"kinds" of Dumbledore from two very different actors (not to mention 
three directors) has more to do with any conceived instability/ 
inconsistency than anything else anyway, so my own view is not to 
worry about it, and certainly not to try to draw any conclusions of 
Book!Dumbledore's motivations from his movie counterpart - in 
particular because the movies can at best sketch the character (and 
the world he inhabits), compared to what the book can do.

SSSusan:
You're right, of course, about not *worrying* about it, but I'm 
actually in agreement with Lupinlore here when he called this a "very 
difficult problem."  As I said, it might give the casual fan a small 
pause as s/he notes DD being a little inconsistent within the movie.  
But for the Die-Hard or Careful Fans <g> who have read and read the 
books, it may well feel like they're being confronted with BIG 
inconsistencies within the character and within the storyline.  It 
doesn't *worry* me so much as just *bug* me, you know?

Siriusly Snapey Susan








From sherriola at earthlink.net  Tue Nov 29 18:22:24 2005
From: sherriola at earthlink.net (Sherry Gomes)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:22:24 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Worried about OoP
In-Reply-To: <dmi4ru+8dpp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <006001c5f511$d959b030$0400a8c0@pensive>

Alora <<


I haven't seen GoF yet, so I don't know how much they've chopped up
the book, although I understand why they would do such a thing.
However, I do think people are highly over-estimating the absolute
need for Sirius to have appeared in GoF.


He writes to Harry what...four or five times in GoF, and speaks to him
once in the fire, right? That would barely be enough to have Harry be
completely bonded to Sirius. I think alot of the bonding happens in
OoP when they stay together.


Sherry:

actually, there's quite a bit more to it than that.  In fact, some of the
most moving things in GOF, the book, are with Harry and Sirius.  One is that
he comes to Hogsmeade and lives as Padfoot in a cave to be near Harry.  the
trio spends a day there with him.  and during the third task, he is waiting
as Padfoot on the grounds.  Dumbledore has him brought up to the school, and
he is with Harry as Harry tells Dumbledore the story of what happened in the
graveyard.  his presence helps Harry get through it and is very touching.
He is also in the hospital wing as padfoot, till Dumbledore tells him to
show himself.  there's a great moment with Sirius and Snape shaking hands,
under protest but at Dumbledore's will.  And then he's sent off by
Dumbledore to go round up some of the old crowd,  Lupin, Mrs. Figg.

Anyway, they aren't a lot of scenes, compared to what else is going on in
that book, but they show the bond between Sirius and Harry, and Harry's
feelings of being able to trust in Sirius as a parental figure.  For me,
they are some of the most memorable and precious moments in GOF.  they lay
the foundation for OTTP, and the eventual reason Voldemort could trick Harry
into believing Sirius was being tortured and rushing out to rescue him.  i
agree with others that not showing this closeness in the movie makes it hard
to set up the essential scene for much of OOTP.

Sherry




From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Tue Nov 29 19:12:29 2005
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 19:12:29 -0000
Subject: Gambledore (to steal Richard's term) (was: GOF - My View!)
In-Reply-To: <dmglkc+evdi@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dmi96t+ccjb@eGroups.com>

starjackson1:
> > There are some things I don't like.  I don't like Michael Gambon 
> > as Dumbledore.  Richard Harris was wonderful in the role, and 
> > Gambon just doesn't get it right.  

Eustace_Scrubb:
> I have to differ here. <snip> Gambon gives the character a harder 
> edge that definitely appears more in the later books--Dumbledore 
> hasn't made it to 150 (or whatever) just by being kindly and 
> slightly wacky, though those are important parts of his character.  
> I don't think his performance is definitive...he really didn't 
> appear enough in POA and the post-selection scene in GOF where
> he pounces on Harry is definitely over the top--but I quite like him
> overall.  I rather hope that they include the OoP scene in DD's 
> office where he escapes from Fudge and Umbridge after the D.A. is
> discovered--I think Gambon should be able to pull that off well, 
> while I really couldn't see Harris in that scene.


SSSusan:
While I think I could envision Harris in the "Escape from Fudge & 
Umbridge" scene, I'm in agreement with you, Eustace, that Gambon 
should be able to do so as well.  The OotP scene I'm most uncertain 
he'll be able to pull off is the trickling tear scene at the end.  
I'm just not sure I can picture him with that kind of emotion.  I 
*hope* I'm wrong -- I'd love to see it done well -- because I think 
it would bring some of the softness/kindness that Harris displayed 
back into the DD character.

Siriusly Snapey Susan, afraid she's posting way too much today! 






From rdas at facstaff.wisc.edu  Tue Nov 29 19:55:42 2005
From: rdas at facstaff.wisc.edu (susanbones2003)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 19:55:42 -0000
Subject: Gambledore (to steal Richard's term) (was: GOF - My View!)
In-Reply-To: <dmi96t+ccjb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dmibnu+d6sd@eGroups.com>

--- <SSSusan:
While I think I could envision Harris in the "Escape from Fudge &
Umbridge" scene, I'm in agreement with you, Eustace, that Gambon
should be able to do so as well. The OotP scene I'm most uncertain
he'll be able to pull off is the trickling tear scene at the end.
I'm just not sure I can picture him with that kind of emotion. I
*hope* I'm wrong -- I'd love to see it done well -- because I think
it would bring some of the softness/kindness that Harris displayed
back into the DD character.

Siriusly Snapey Susan, afraid she's posting way too much today!

I think someone put it well when they said that the Gambon DD does not 
twinkle ever. He was a little playful in POA, but he has never been 
able to capture the light-heartedness that DD did have. This whole 
discussion of Gambon reminds me that it is the job of actors to listen 
to and work with directors, not writers. He probably didn't want to 
know much about the books. It would be wrong somehow to cater to them 
when this is a film and film is a different medium. But it troubles me 
to see a story lose its internal logic when it comes to screen. I do 
not think it would have damaged the film to maintain the logic of the 
story. Otherwise we are saying that the story as written really doesn't 
matter that much.
JenD







From bob.oliver at cox.net  Tue Nov 29 19:22:55 2005
From: bob.oliver at cox.net (lupinlore)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 19:22:55 -0000
Subject: Setup for OOTP
In-Reply-To: <dlv834+no6e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dmi9qf+fath@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "cubfanbudwoman" 
<susiequsie23 at s...> wrote:
>
<SNIP>
> 
> SSSusan:
> Right.  This is what I don't want to see.  I mean, I *do* think it 
> would be "correct" to see a lot of Angry!Harry and Frustrated!Harry, 
> but I want us the audience to be clued in to DD's true feelings and 
> motivations so that we don't have to feel as Harry does, if that 
> makes sense.
> 

This brings up a very good point.  You want your audience to stay in 
the seats and pay attention.  Thus, when the movie characters are 
joyful, the audience should be joyful.  When the characters are 
fearful, the audience should be fearful.  But when the characters are 
bored, frustrated, and in pain you DON'T want your audience to be 
bored, frustrated, and in pain.

That brings up a very big challenge, which many reviewers point out 
was exemplified by the recent movie "Jarhead."  Jarhead is a movie 
about a Marine Sniper in the Gulf War.  As the Marine Snipers did 
essentially nothing in the Gulf War, it is a movie where the 
characters are bored, frustrated, annoyed, and weary through almost 
the entire thing.  Now, I think the movie did an excellent job of 
capturing the essence of what this unit of Marines went through, and I 
liked it because I have personal ties with the subject, but I 
sympathize with other viewers who say, "Yeah, it did a great job of 
making me feel like the Snipers did, but who wants to feel that way?"  
In other words, "Jarhead" had the problem of how to tell a story about 
a bored, frustrated, angry young man without making its audience 
bored, angry, and frustrated.  The fact that "Jarhead," despite a fine 
cast, a big budget,  a tie in with a non-fiction bestseller, and very 
good screenwriting, could not pull this off with a lot of viewers does 
not speak well for the challenge of adapting OOTP successfully.


Lupinlore









From nonnymouse_X at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 29 18:22:56 2005
From: nonnymouse_X at hotmail.com (ereshkigal_doom)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:22:56 -0000
Subject: Worried about OoP
In-Reply-To: <dmi4ru+8dpp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dmi6a1+pjob@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Krissy" <surreal_44 at y...> wrote:
> He writes to Harry what...four or five times in GoF, and speaks to 
him
> once in the fire, right? That would barely be enough to have Harry be
> completely bonded to Sirius. I think alot of the bonding happens in
> OoP when they stay together.
>
I think you are right. 

My personal feeling is that the movie makers are anxious to have each 
movie stand on its own, without moviegoers needing to have seen or 
remembered previous movies. Even if they had done plenty establishing 
Sirius's relationship with Harry in GOF, they would have still needed 
to re-establish it in in OOP. So this would have been time wasted in a 
movie that is already a little long.

The movies are primarily aimed at the general public rather than keen 
HP fans. Considering that, I think they are remarkably faithful to the 
source material.








From CMeehan1 at aol.com  Tue Nov 29 20:34:19 2005
From: CMeehan1 at aol.com (CMeehan1 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:34:19 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Voldemort and What I Loved
Message-ID: <bd.65838189.30be154b@aol.com>

I was disappointed in the Voldemort scene too.  I thought it moved way  too 
fast and it definitely was NOT SCARY enough for me!  My 2 kids ages 8  and 6 
were not scared at all!That is probably my favorite scene from all of the  HP 
books so I was bound to be disappointed.
 
What I did love...
-The greater presence of the Weasley Twins, Ginny and Neville
-Rupert Grint was fantastic!
-I loved when Ron tells everyone how he asked Fleur to the ball and then  
Hermione gets scared that "she said yes?"!
-I thought Daniel Radcliffe's acting was great!  It definitely helps  that he 
looks so much like Harry!
 
Caroline


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From rdas at facstaff.wisc.edu  Tue Nov 29 21:29:57 2005
From: rdas at facstaff.wisc.edu (susanbones2003)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:29:57 -0000
Subject: Setup for OOTP
In-Reply-To: <dmi9qf+fath@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dmih8l+se38@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "lupinlore" <bob.oliver at c..
wrote (major snippage here)

  Now, I think the movie did an excellent job of 
> capturing the essence of what this unit of Marines went through, 
and I 
> liked it because I have personal ties with the subject, but I 
> sympathize with other viewers who say, "Yeah, it did a great job 
of 
> making me feel like the Snipers did, but who wants to feel that 
way?"  
> In other words, "Jarhead" had the problem of how to tell a story 
about 
> a bored, frustrated, angry young man without making its audience 
> bored, angry, and frustrated.  The fact that "Jarhead," despite a 
fine 
> cast, a big budget,  a tie in with a non-fiction bestseller, and 
very 
> good screenwriting, could not pull this off with a lot of viewers 
does 
> not speak well for the challenge of adapting OOTP successfully.
> 
> 
> Lupinlore

I think the obvious answer to this can be found in GOF. Newel looked 
at the great sprawling mass of a story that it is and he found the 
narrative thread that he could empathize with, the "thriller" 
aspect. Then it was easy to sublimate all other non-thriller 
elements. I've already read that the new director of OOTP is having 
trouble getting all the permits he needs to film a wild chase scene 
through certain parts of London. The new writer will find a 
cinematic story amidst the clutter of OOTP and provide us with 
something that can keep us in the seats. It may only look a bit like 
the novel but that in itself could be an improvement.
JenD
>







From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 29 22:27:54 2005
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:27:54 -0000
Subject: Setup for OOTP
In-Reply-To: <dmih8l+se38@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dmikla+6d74@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "susanbones2003" <rdas at f...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "lupinlore" <bob.oliver at c..
> wrote (major snippage here)
> 
> > ... The fact that "Jarhead," despite a  fine  cast, a big 
> > budget,  a tie in with a non-fiction bestseller, and very 
> > good screenwriting, could not pull this off with a lot of 
> > viewers does not speak well for the challenge of adapting 
> > OOTP successfully.
> > 
> > 
> > Lupinlore

> JenD:
> 
> .... Newel looked at the great sprawling mass of a story ...
> and he found the narrative thread that.. empathize ..., the 
> "thriller" aspect. Then it was easy to sublimate all other 
> non-thriller elements. 
>
> I've already read that the new director of OOTP is having 
> trouble getting all the permits he needs to film a wild chase
> scene through certain parts of London. 
> 

bboyminn:

Wild Chase Scene???? Already I'm feeling worried. Not only don't I
recall a 'wild chase scene' in OotP, but I don't even recall anything
that could be converted into a 'wild chase scene'. I think there is
more than enough story there already to start wasting time with 'wild
chase scenes'.

> JenD continues:
> The new writer will find a cinematic story amidst the clutter
> of OOTP and provide us with something that can keep us in the
> seats. ...
>
> JenD

bboyminn:

I'm not sure that people in general realize what a monumental task it
is to effectively condense a long book into a coherent movie. Try it
yourself, in a very simple way, look at OotP and try and find the
central thread; the central theme of the book. Then try and combine
elements of the story around the central theme and blend them together
in a coherent flow. I'm very confident that you will not find it an
easy task.

How important is the time at Privet Drive? 

It seems important since that is where Harry is attacked by Dementors.
But does he have to be attacked there at Privet Drive with the added
distractions of Dudley, Mundungus, and Mrs. Figg, or would it be
better to have it happen at the Weasley's or, more likely, at or near
the Black House. 

But then again, while it is true that the Dementor attack leads to the
Black house which leads to Harry's hearing which introduces Umbridge
which leads to the school, is it really all that important? Couldn't
we just skip the Dementor attack, start right out with the Order
taking Harry to Grimmauld Place and introduce Umbridge at school? Or,
could we even skip the Order taking Harry to Grimmauld Place, and just
start out at Grimmauld Place? -no Dementor attack -no Dusley's/Privet
Drive -no Dudley attack -no Figg/Mundungus -no rescue by the Order

So really when you get right down to it, is Privet Drive and the
Dementor attack really of any significants at all to the central
story? Does it serve any real purpose in the movie? Further
complicating matters, will the movie fans let you get away with not
including it? 

It's a very tough decision, and one I'm glad I don't have to make.

Just trying to add some perspective.

Steve/bboyminn








From lorelei3dg at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 29 23:38:25 2005
From: lorelei3dg at yahoo.com (lorelei3dg)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 23:38:25 -0000
Subject: The Music
In-Reply-To: <0cf801c5f48e$8e53b0f0$6402a8c0@GARDENROOM>
Message-ID: <dmioph+meam@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Michelle Chandler" 
<gardengirlgarden at y...> wrote:
>
> 
> Did anyone else notice a strong similarity to the LOTR theme in the 
music from the opening credits?
> 
> Michelle
> 

Yes! In fact, I was taken out of the movie several times with similar 
moments. One was during a long shot of the exterior of Hogwarts 
during a rainstorm: I said on another messageboard that I was so 
forcibly reminded of the score for Helm's Deep that I half expected 
to see the camera close in on Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli staring 
grimly out over a battlement. Another time (I think it was the 
graveyard but can't remember clearly), the music made me think of 
Shelob's Lair. After seeing the film four times and noticing this 
every time, I actually found myself wondering if Howard Shore might 
have a legal case here. Needless to say, I was not inspired with 
GOF's soundtrack.

Lorel






From joj at rochester.rr.com  Tue Nov 29 23:50:43 2005
From: joj at rochester.rr.com (joj)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:50:43 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Best character scenes
References: <dmhle7+o0v4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000d01c5f53f$b621a450$4a36cc45@bumbargey3ogmz>





> Valerie Flowe wrote:
> > Harry: This is a broom closet.
> > Rita Skeeter: Well then you should feel right at home!
> >
> > Can you BELIEVE she said THAT?!?! What an evil, hateful wench!

Joj writes:  That was definitely an ouch moment.  So cruel.


> SSSusan:
> What I couldn't believe was what Rita said just before that -- 
> something like "It's COZY in here, isn't it?" with her chest about 2
> inches from Harry's face!  Very much a come-on kind of line.


If I hadn't read the book, I would have thought at first she was going to
hit on him in that closet.  She stood very close to him.  Then to follow
with that horrid line.

Some people wondered why she was even in the film, but I liked her in it.
I'm disappointed she won't be in the fifth movie.  It's one of the only
times Harry gets the best of Umbridge. (The article)  I'm hoping they change
that part, not leave out entirely.

Joj




From rdas at facstaff.wisc.edu  Wed Nov 30 00:37:05 2005
From: rdas at facstaff.wisc.edu (susanbones2003)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 00:37:05 -0000
Subject: Setup for OOTP
In-Reply-To: <dmikla+6d74@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <dmis7h+p99i@eGroups.com>

SNIP
> So really when you get right down to it, is Privet Drive and the
> Dementor attack really of any significants at all to the central
> story? Does it serve any real purpose in the movie? Further
> complicating matters, will the movie fans let you get away with not
> including it? 
> 
> It's a very tough decision, and one I'm glad I don't have to make.
> 
> Just trying to add some perspective.
> 
> Steve/bboyminn
>
Steve,
I can empathize with you completely. I want to see the entire book up 
there somehow but now after 4 movies, I am finally getting the point. 
The point is to get people into the theater and from what I can see, 
the film people aren't after the die hard fan. They want the (as 
someone else put it) casual fan who knows the general lines of the 
story. They don't want to be tied to the plot in a slavish way and they 
want to make sure that the kids will come so it can't get overly heavy. 
Plus, some of the film makers are considered serious so they want to 
put their artistic touches on it as well. Richard aptly pointed out 
that the last film probably had 3 writers. That doesn't seem to help 
when creating a central vision. Who knows when all is said and done how 
many fingers go into the pie. We as consumers of these films aren't in 
a position to make our feelings known. We just have to hope for the 
best.
JenD







From juli17 at aol.com  Wed Nov 30 03:20:01 2005
From: juli17 at aol.com (juli17 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:20:01 EST
Subject: Acting vs Embodying (was Re: Dan's acting)
Message-ID: <5b.7671eb23.30be7461@aol.com>

 
Richard wrote:

I have  problems with people saying he's something he isn't. Namely: a great  
actor. At least, not yet. Although I have every hope he has it inside him  
to become one.


Julie:
I don't mind agreeing with you here. Dan had limited experience, but I've 
seen his skills grow throughout each movie. Furthermore, I'm not sure  it
really *matters* for the purposes of HP movies whether he's a  "great" actor.
What matters (and probably why he was chosen out of many thousands
to take on the Harry role) is whether he can embody the imaginary boy
wizard, Harry Potter. And at that, he shines, IMO.
 
Dan's calm nature, his natural reticence and occasional hesitancy, his 
innocence (especially in the first movie) all *fit* Harry Potter  perfectly.
There may be more technically skilled child actors--Haley Joel Osment
of a few years ago comes to mind--but skill is naught if the actor  doesn't
fit the part. And great as Haley Joel was in movies like The Sixth  Sense,
could you see him as Harry Potter?
 
If roles were filled based only on technical acting skill and  experience,
then the very central role of Harry Potter might have gone to Rupert
Grint, a child actor we probably all agree was naturally skilled from
the beginning. But again, could Rupert believably embody the role  of
Harry Potter? I don't think so, because even while acting some of
the actor's natural personality shines through, and Rupert wasn't
"right" for the role of Harry Potter. 
 
The final test for me with any movie role is if the actor *becomes*
the character. And Dan passes that test. He has become Harry
Potter to me. Just as Rupert has become Ron, and Alan Rickman
has become Snape. When I read the books, I see them in my mind.
(Admittedly, I sometimes see Hermoine differently than as Emma 
Watson, perhaps partly because her character is the most changed
from book to movie.)
 
So Dan's acting skill is generally a moot point for me. I'm thrilled
he got the role, I love how he's embodied Harry Potter, and I am
extremely grateful he will again do so in OotP and HBP. And I  await
those future performances eagerly.
 
Julie 
 
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Wed Nov 30 06:46:03 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 01:46:03 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Future Casting
In-Reply-To: <01c401c5f316$7d3b1020$6402a8c0@GARDENROOM>
Message-ID: <BFB2B4DB.1779%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>

On 11/27/05 12:50 AM, "Michelle Chandler" <gardengirlgarden at yahoo.com>
wrote:

> I know, but after Misery, she'd just be too perfect as creepy old Umbridge....
> 
> Michelle
> 
> I know this is more book-than-movie speculation, but if JKR kills off Harry in
> Book 7, she had better watch her back or SHE might just get hobbled in some
> snowy mountain cabin by a rabid HP fan!!! LOL and in jest, of course!
> Valerie



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Wed Nov 30 08:08:11 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 03:08:11 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Dan's acting
In-Reply-To: <26e.b97267.30bc71c2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BFB2C81B.177C%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>

On 11/28/05 9:44 AM, "artsylynda at aol.com" <artsylynda at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> <<I've always maintained that young Master Radcliffe has severe
> limitations as an actor, and that scene is a perfect  example.>>
> 
> 
> I just can't let this go unchallenged. <snip>
>  
> I give Newell full marks, as well as Dan Radcliffe himself, for the
> tremendous improvement in Dan's acting. <snip>
> 
> Thanks for that wonderful commentary/praise on Dan Radcliffe?s acting
> (particularly in GOF). I was also highly impressed with the leap in his acting
> ability in this installment. I thought his facial expressions and line
> delivery were very well executed. This was quite a challenging movie for a
> lead actor, and I think Dan deserves kudos for a job well done!
> Valerie 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Wed Nov 30 08:14:11 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 03:14:11 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Dan's acting
In-Reply-To: <dmf6s6+368o@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <BFB2C983.177E%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>

On 11/28/05 10:14 AM, "starjackson1" <starjackson1 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Sometimes I wonder if we are all watching the same movie! Our
> interpretations are so different.
> 
> I actually thought Emma Watson's acting in this film was
> *wonderful*.  She really shined in this role and I love her!
> 
> Rupert Grint is the strongest actor of the trio. He has always been
> spot on - from the earliest days.
> 
> Dan is the weakest link, HOWEVER - he has steadily improved over the
> life of this films, and he gave a fine performance in GOF (Dan is 16
> years old by the way.  In the film Harry is 14 years old).
> 
> I think the acting all around was very good in this move.
> 
> The only scene that bugged me with Hermione was when she said ?It?s not going
> to work!!? to the twins when they were trying to fool the goblet. For some
> reason that line seemed forced. But then again, so did Draco?s few lines when
> he jumped down from the tree. Very rehearsed, imo.
> But Hermione?s ball scenes (both verbal and non-verbal expressions) were
> terrific. 
> I thought Cedric and Cho did awesome jobs for being new to acting.
> Fleur was a disappointment. Not Veela-like, at all!
> Victor was great (though I missed him saying Hermioninny!)
> Valerie



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Wed Nov 30 08:27:38 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 03:27:38 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Moody's comment
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20051128144519.00b88830@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <BFB2CCAA.1780%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>

One line that bugged me was when Moody/Barty says to Harry ?I?ll show you
mine if you show me yours?.
Whaaat??!?!! Aside from sounding like a sexual innuendo, it seemed to imply
that V had given Harry the dark mark in the cemetery. Weird, I thought.
Valerie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Wed Nov 30 08:40:31 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 03:40:31 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: GOF - Starjackson's View and some	additional
 thoughts on GoF!Snape
In-Reply-To: <dmfr4m+769e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <BFB2CFAF.1783%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>


> starjackson wrote:
> 
> <<I don't like Michael Gambon as Dumbledore.  Richard Harris was
> wonderful in the role, and Gambon just doesn't get it right.  I
> think it's a lapse on his part, as an actor, that he did not do some
> research on his part and at least talked to JKR or read some of the
> books.>>
> 
I much preferred Harris to Gambon as Dumbledore as well.

I was missing the Harry/Dumbledore debriefings as well. Aside from being an
obvious tie-it-all-up-in-a-neat-bow literary ploy, it does solidify the
grandfather/son type relationship between the two. I liked the way in GOF
that D said that he was sorry that he put Harry in great danger. That was
the closest that Gambon has come to showing the sensitivity that Harris did
so well. I so miss the performances such as ?alas, earwax!!? The twinkle,
the knowing looks that he would give Harry. Gambon needs to soften his
portrayal a little, imo.
Val


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Wed Nov 30 09:02:26 2005
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 04:02:26 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Worried about OoP
In-Reply-To: <dmi4ru+8dpp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <BFB2D4D2.1786%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>

> 
> He writes to Harry what...four or five times in GoF, and speaks to him
> once in the fire, right? That would barely be enough to have Harry be
> completely bonded to Sirius. I think alot of the bonding happens in
> OoP when they stay together.
> 
> Don?t forget that Harry (plus Ron/Hermione?) visit Sirius in his cave several
> times, bringing him food from the Hogwarts kitchens so that he doesn?t have to
> eat rats. This also gives the opportunity for a lot of the story details. I
> think it was a nice continuation of the Sirius/Harry storyline. And I do think
> that they have missed the opportunity to keep that storyline flowing from POA
> to GOF to OoP. But then again Sirius is one of my favorite characters so I?m
> biased! :-)
> Val



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From hp at plum.cream.org  Wed Nov 30 12:28:51 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 12:28:51 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Setup for OOTP
In-Reply-To: <dmikla+6d74@eGroups.com>
References: <dmih8l+se38@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051130114000.00b292f0@plum.cream.org>

At 22:27 29/11/2005 , Steve wrote:

> > JenD:
> >
> > I've already read that the new director of OOTP is having
> > trouble getting all the permits he needs to film a wild chase
> > scene through certain parts of London.
> >
>
>bboyminn:
>
>Wild Chase Scene???? Already I'm feeling worried. Not only don't I
>recall a 'wild chase scene' in OotP, but I don't even recall anything
>that could be converted into a 'wild chase scene'. I think there is
>more than enough story there already to start wasting time with 'wild
>chase scenes'.

That piece of news is several months old, and it was discussed here at the 
time. I'm too busy to battle the Yahoo! search facility to find it, but I 
would remind people that there there are two sequences in/over London in 
OotP: the race to get to the MoM at the end, and getting to 12GP at the 
beginning. The words "wild chase scene" can mean a multitude of things and 
while the scenes in the book are in the air (and thus presumably will be 
filmed on blue-screen), the film-makers still need to get permissions to 
film back plates of the city.

<snip>

>But then again, while it is true that the Dementor attack leads to the
>Black house which leads to Harry's hearing which introduces Umbridge
>which leads to the school, is it really all that important? Couldn't
>we just skip the Dementor attack, start right out with the Order
>taking Harry to Grimmauld Place and introduce Umbridge at school? Or,
>could we even skip the Order taking Harry to Grimmauld Place, and just
>start out at Grimmauld Place? -no Dementor attack -no Dusley's/Privet
>Drive -no Dudley attack -no Figg/Mundungus -no rescue by the Order

You're forgetting that the Dementor attack (and the subsequent hearing) 
leads to something much more important than introducing us to Umbridge: the 
whereabouts of the Ministry and how to get in. Seeing as the climax of the 
movie happens at the MoM, we need a pretext for Harry to get that 
information, and to see the layout.

Ultimately, while Goldberg *could* write an entirely new pretext for 
Harry's visit to the depths of the MoM, it would all be a bit pointless. 
I'm having trouble envisioning Harry having a different reason to get a 
guided tour of the Ministry at this point in the story, not to mention that 
we need to set up the friction between the powers that be and him (and the 
Order) - any other reason to get Harry to the MoM would take up just as 
much screen time (and I can't imagine Goldberg dreaming up anything more 
dramatic).

For the record, I can see the movie opening in the street with the Dementor 
attack happening fairly quickly, and getting rid of the next several dozen 
pages, to have an immediate hearing and *then* going to 12GP. Heck, we 
could even have a fairly serious departure from the book's plot to have a 
certain big black dog skulking around the shadows, and introduce Sirius 
much earlier than the book.

We don't necessarily need Mundungus or Mrs Figg (seeing as she's never been 
introduced before, and there's no reason for Harry to have any reason to 
trust her), although I'd prefer her to be around if only to testify.

--
Richard, playing catch-up again 



From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Wed Nov 30 13:00:44 2005
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:00:44 -0000
Subject: Moody's comment
In-Reply-To: <BFB2CCAA.1780%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <dmk7ps+3puu@eGroups.com>

Valerie:
> One line that bugged me was when Moody/Barty says to Harry ?I?ll show 
> you mine if you show me yours?.  Whaaat??!?!! Aside from sounding 
> like a sexual innuendo, it seemed to imply that V had given Harry the 
> dark mark in the cemetery. Weird, I thought.

SSSusan: 
And when I heard that line, I thought it was Barty speaking to *Snape,* 
knowing he, too, would have had a Dark Mark on his arm.  I didn't 
quite "get" why he said that to Harry, either.

Siriusly Snapey Susan








From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Wed Nov 30 13:07:03 2005
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:07:03 -0000
Subject: More on Gambledore + the score (was: GOF - Starjackson's View)
In-Reply-To: <BFB2CFAF.1783%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <dmk85n+33i1@eGroups.com>

starjackson wrote:
<<I don't like Michael Gambon as Dumbledore.>> 

Valerie:
> I liked the way in GOF that D said that he was sorry that he put 
> Harry in great danger. That was the closest that Gambon has come to 
> showing the sensitivity that Harris did so well. I so miss the 
> performances such as ?alas, earwax!!? The twinkle, the knowing 
> looks that he would give Harry. Gambon needs to soften his 
> portrayal a little, imo.


SSSusan:
I've stated here and elsewhere that I preferred Harris' portrayal to 
Gambon's, as well.  However, I have to say after watching GoF for the 
4th time last night (and I was the ONLY person in the theater -- 
*that* was a wacky feeling!), that Gambon is growing on me.  I 
thought, not just the comment about being sorry he'd put Harry in 
terrible danger, was good, but the whole dormitory scene was good.  
He seemed quite believable to me when he touched Harry on the side of 
the head and reinforced to Harry that he has *friends* at Hogwarts.

I also liked his Cedric speech very much, and a few other random 
moments, such as when he said, "Miss Granger, what are YOU doing 
here?" <g>

The other surprise for me is that the score is also growing on me.  
I've purchased & loved each John Williams score (esp. the innovative-
in-spots PoA score) but 'til now had felt no compulsion to buy the 
Doyle score.  Now I'm thinking I just might....

Siriusly Snapey Susan








From hp at plum.cream.org  Wed Nov 30 13:14:58 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:14:58 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Moody's comment
In-Reply-To: <BFB2CCAA.1780%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>
References: <4.2.0.58.20051128144519.00b88830@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051130123507.00b16cf0@plum.cream.org>

At 08:27 30/11/2005 , Valerie Flowe wrote:
>One line that bugged me was when Moody/Barty says to Harry ?I?ll show you
>mine if you show me yours?.
>Whaaat??!?!! Aside from sounding like a sexual innuendo, it seemed to imply
>that V had given Harry the dark mark in the cemetery. Weird, I thought.

At one of my recent viewings, I paid a little more attention to that line 
(following discussion here about the "gleam") - I agree that seemed a 
little odd.

Its very oddness (and Gambon's ever odder reaction shot) made me wonder 
just what it was meant to mean, and despite my earlier comments about not 
drawing conclusions about the books from the movies, I have a feeling that 
some kind of conclusion should be drawn from Voldemort's "marking" HP: was 
"mark as his equal" from the first prophecy not about the famous scar, but 
about the wound, as a result of which he was reborn? The way it's shown 
(and the dialogue) certainly invites comparisons between the Dark Mark and 
the wound.

"Just an idea"...

--
Richard, out of .sig ideas



From sherriola at earthlink.net  Wed Nov 30 14:15:02 2005
From: sherriola at earthlink.net (Sherry Gomes)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 06:15:02 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Setup for OOTP
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20051130114000.00b292f0@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <000f01c5f5b8$7594f0d0$0400a8c0@pensive>

For the record, I can see the movie opening in the street with the Dementor 
attack happening fairly quickly, and getting rid of the next several dozen 
pages, to have an immediate hearing and *then* going to 12GP. Heck, we 
could even have a fairly serious departure from the book's plot to have a 
certain big black dog skulking around the shadows, and introduce Sirius 
much earlier than the book.

We don't necessarily need Mundungus or Mrs Figg (seeing as she's never been 
introduced before, and there's no reason for Harry to have any reason to 
trust her), although I'd prefer her to be around if only to testify.

--
Richard, playing catch-up again 


sherry:

Not to mention in the scene after the dementor attack, we learn that Petunia
knows a lot more about the WW than she has let on even to her husband.  and
we learn that someone has been in touch with her before.  If it's true that
there is more to this story line to come in book seven, it would seem
important to keep the dementors and the aftermath in the movie.  

Sherry




From hp at plum.cream.org  Wed Nov 30 14:21:41 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 14:21:41 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Acting vs Embodying (was Re: Dan's acting)
In-Reply-To: <5b.7671eb23.30be7461@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051130132706.00b06390@plum.cream.org>

At 03:20 30/11/2005 , Julie replied to my previous:

<snip>

>So Dan's acting skill is generally a moot point for me. I'm thrilled he 
>got the role, I love how he's embodied Harry Potter, and I am extremely 
>grateful he will again do so in OotP and HBP. And I  await those future 
>performances eagerly.

Let me repeat again, and for fear of appearing patronising, I think I need 
to make a distinction crystal clear: I do not object in any way to Dan 
playing HP, and I doubt that the casting people could have found anyone 
better. What I object to is people extrapolating that just because Dan is 
the perfect Harry, that he is a great (or even good) actor. Some people 
around here just don't seem to be able to understand that distinction.

I have nothing against Dan - on the contrary, I think he's a terrific young 
man, a wonderful role model, and a perfect example of how it's possible to 
be probably the best-known teenager on the planet and the most 
independently-wealthy teenager in Britain while remaining "normal". As he 
himself is the first to admit, though, and without diminishing his 
qualities, a considerable amount of the credit for that goes to his 
parents. More than his being  a perfect role model, I think his parents 
(along with those of Haley Osment - I don't think it's coincidental that 
both the Radcliffes and the Osments Senior are connected to show business, 
know the pitfalls and are able to avoid them) are a perfect example of how 
to raise and nurture teenage celebrities.

The thing is, child casting is not about finding great actors (great adult 
actors are few and far between; great child actors are rarer that 
gold-dust). Child roles are filled by kids who are very much like their 
characters for one reason or other, and who don't actually *need* to "act" 
in any of the miriad technical meanings of the term. So many child actors 
have failed precisely because they (and those managing their careers) fail 
to appreciate that fact, and put them up for roles for which are simply not 
suited, in other words, where they have to *act*, rather than *be*. Just 
because a child plays a particular character well, it doesn't mean that 
they are capable of playing anything else.

I'm not surprised that in the film Dan is making right now (from all I've 
heard about it), he's another plucky orphan: he's playing to his strengths, 
but at the same time, is attempting to expand his repertoire by doing 
something most *adult* actors do badly: adopting a foreign accent (in this 
case, Australian): considering there are all kinds of variables (there 
isn't a "single" Australian "accent", and most people probably wouldn't be 
able to tell the difference anyway), he can probably get away with a fair 
approximation.

Yet more interesting (and he's already admitted that it's far more of a 
challenge) is the fact that the film is on a more typical movie schedule: 
six weeks of intensive filming, all day and going through scenes with a 
minimum of fuss and repetition, with a single camera. Earlier this morning, 
I watched Clemence Poesy on French TV in a round-table discussion about GoF 
(the film was released in France today), talking about how strange making a 
HP movie is, with generous schedules, three or four cameras rolling 
simultaneously for most scenes, and take after take after take. (I might 
make that discussion available somewhere - I recorded the programme, and 
some bits of it were fairly interesting - I might relay a few more comments 
from it later on, and I might find a way to make the video available online.)

I reserve judgment about Dan's "acting" abilities until after I've seen 
that film. In the meantime, by all means, let's all agree that he *is* 
Harry Potter, and along with everyone else, I can't imagine anyone else 
taking over from him. But let's also agree that he is NOT a great actor! At 
least, as I said before, not *yet*.

--
Richard. who's not going to participate in any more "How great is Dan" 
threads because this is beginning to get boring.



From hp at plum.cream.org  Wed Nov 30 14:54:22 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 14:54:22 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Setup for OOTP
In-Reply-To: <000f01c5f5b8$7594f0d0$0400a8c0@pensive>
References: <4.2.0.58.20051130114000.00b292f0@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051130143807.00b18e30@plum.cream.org>

At 14:15 30/11/2005 , Sherry Gomes wrote:

>Not to mention in the scene after the dementor attack, we learn that Petunia
>knows a lot more about the WW than she has let on even to her husband.  and
>we learn that someone has been in touch with her before.  If it's true that
>there is more to this story line to come in book seven, it would seem
>important to keep the dementors and the aftermath in the movie.

As I've said before, the movies aren't too concerned with setting up future 
plotlines unless absolutely necessary to the immediate plot. Petunia's 
reaction isn't vitally important *at this stage* and if it has a payoff in 
Book Seven, movie seven is where it'll be have to be introduced anyway, as 
that's where it'll be resolved.

In any case, it's hardly the most pressing reason to keep the Dementor 
attack in Movie!OotP, and even if my projected summary of a potential first 
scene didn't mention it, the Dursleys would be involved (Vernon and Petunia 
are probably more memorable to the audience than Dudley, especially as they 
didn't appear in GoF and Dudley will have changed over the last two years 
within the story, not to mention Harry Melling will have changed even more 
over the last three years in the real world).

I wouldn't bother with the flurry of owls, apart from certainly one to 
Harry to inform him of the hearing, and *perhaps* one to Petunia from 
Dumbledore, to set up the Harry-Dumbledore distancing: during a 12GP scene 
with Ron & Hermione, Harry could ask rhetorically: "why did he send a 
message to HER and not ME?"

--
Richard, still waiting for his owl



From artsylynda at aol.com  Wed Nov 30 15:20:00 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 10:20:00 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Dan's acting
Message-ID: <d4.34989b2b.30bf1d20@aol.com>

 
 
In a message dated 11/30/2005 3:16:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com writes:

I  thought Cedric and Cho did awesome jobs for being new to acting.
> Fleur  was a disappointment. Not Veela-like, at all!
> Victor was great (though  I missed him saying Hermioninny!)
>  Valerie




Robert Pattinson isn't new to acting - he's been in several other  films 
already.  I did enjoy him as Cedric, though.  I thought Katie  and Stan were both 
marvelous, especially for first-time actors (neither had EVER  acted before, 
nor had any training).  Fleur has been in other films too,  but you're right, 
she's no Veela.  Where was her "long silvery sheet of  hair"?  That could have 
been accomplished with a wig, like the Malfoys  (didn't Draco's wig look silly 
at the Quidditch World Cup?  Not at all like  his hair texture.  Wonder why 
they did that?)  Ah well, there are tons  of things we can pick at.  Overall, I 
still loved the movie and can't wait  to see it again!  

Lynda AKA "Abraxan"

Read my Harry Potter fics here:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From artsylynda at aol.com  Wed Nov 30 15:15:22 2005
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 10:15:22 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] acting vs. embodying
Message-ID: <2b4.fd1e43.30bf1c0a@aol.com>

 
 
In a message dated 11/30/2005 3:16:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com writes:

So Dan's  acting skill is generally a moot point for me. I'm thrilled
he got the  role, I love how he's embodied Harry Potter, and I am
extremely grateful he  will again do so in OotP and HBP. And I  await
those future  performances eagerly.

Julie 


Exactly!  And what a GIFT the producers got in that young  man!  He is the 
most articulate and most entertaining interview of any  young person I've seen 
in years.  He is genuinely excited despite five  years of working on the same 
role, with the same cast and crew, and his  excitement translates into 
excellent interviews.  And, as David Heyman has  said, Dan's a "very responsible boy" 
so he does his own stunts even when they  terrify him (such as sliding down 
the roof) or make him ill (he had two ear  infections during the underwater 
tasks).  The kid is the best kind of  trooper and remains cheerful throughout.  I 
can't see Haley Joel or many  other child actors being as "gee whiz" as Dan 
still is, or as innocently  charming as he is.  Thank goodness he lives in 
England and hasn't been  "ruined" by the Hollywood "child actor mill" that ruins so 
many children's  lives.  Dan does embody Harry Potter, and he's a joy to 
interview.   What more could a producer want?  I hope he gets to do all seven 
films!  

Lynda AKA "Abraxan"

Read my Harry Potter fics here:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPRefinersFire/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From rdas at facstaff.wisc.edu  Wed Nov 30 17:11:09 2005
From: rdas at facstaff.wisc.edu (susanbones2003)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:11:09 -0000
Subject: Setup for OOTP
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20051130143807.00b18e30@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <dmkmfd+vnrk@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Richard <hp at p...> wrote:
>Snip!
> > As I've said before, the movies aren't too concerned with setting 
up future 
> plotlines unless absolutely necessary to the immediate plot. 
Petunia's 
> reaction isn't vitally important *at this stage* and if it has a 
payoff in 
> Book Seven, movie seven is where it'll be have to be introduced 
anyway, as 
> that's where it'll be resolved.
>snip--
> Richard, still waiting for his owl

Richard,
I've wanted to ask you, concerning the continuity, do you feel the 
movies stand alone since they are being written and directed as stand 
alones? I know you mentioned it's very possible Jo had her mitts on the 
GOF script but was it simply to protect future plot lines and then 
hands off?  I mean in your opinion of course...I am beginning to wonder 
if she is in some way distancing herself from the films. I saw nothing 
of her during all the opening hoopla and I know her hubby was ill, but 
still, it seemed unnaturally quiet from her. I do understand the forces 
that move film-making may be too strong even for her to sway one way or 
another. What do you think?
J






From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 30 18:23:54 2005
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:23:54 -0000
Subject: Setup for OOTP-Finding the Central Thread
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20051130114000.00b292f0@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <dmkqnq+mccf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Richard <hp at p...> wrote:
>
> At 22:27 29/11/2005 , Steve wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> > bboyminn:
> > 
> >But then again, while it is true that the Dementor attack leads
> > to the Black house which leads to Harry's hearing which 
> > introduces Umbridge which leads to the school, is it really 
> > all that important? ...

> Richard:
> 
> You're forgetting that the Dementor attack (and the subsequent
> hearing) leads to something much more important than introducing
> us to Umbridge: the whereabouts of the Ministry and how to get 
> in. Seeing as the climax of the movie happens at the MoM, we need
> a pretext for Harry to get that  information, and to see the layout.
> 

bboyminn:

Of course, I was only using the Dementor attack to illustrate the
difficulty of creating a screenplay. 

To counter your argument, Umbridge can be introduced at school, the
conflict with the Ministry (mentioned elsewhere) doesn't have to be
introduced at all, and since the Thestrals know how to get anywhere,
the location of the Ministry can be left off and Harry can just tell
them 'Ministry of Magic' and off the Thestrals will go. To make this
work, we simply have to change the phone box entrance with it's
'm-a-g-i-c' phone number to a normal 'front door' entrance. I think
that eliminates about a fourth of the book; that's pretty good
condensing. 

Keep in mind I'm not saying this is a good thing. Just pointing out
that somethings that seem obvious and important to the books aren't
necesarily important to constructing a screen play.

So, the condense story could be Harry's war with a mean teacher
(Umbridge), the dreams, and a Thestral trip to the Ministry of Magic
for the final confrontation. 

Again, the core question is, where is the central thread of the story,
and what is just peripheral 'fill'? It's not an easy thing to determine.

Just passing it alone.

Steve/bboyminn








From hp at plum.cream.org  Wed Nov 30 19:12:38 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 19:12:38 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Setup for OOTP
In-Reply-To: <dmkmfd+vnrk@eGroups.com>
References: <4.2.0.58.20051130143807.00b18e30@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051130171647.00b04da0@plum.cream.org>

At 17:11 30/11/2005 , susanbones2003 wrote:

>Richard,
>I've wanted to ask you, concerning the continuity, do you feel the
>movies stand alone since they are being written and directed as stand
>alones? I know you mentioned it's very possible Jo had her mitts on the
>GOF script but was it simply to protect future plot lines and then
>hands off?  I mean in your opinion of course...I am beginning to wonder
>if she is in some way distancing herself from the films. I saw nothing
>of her during all the opening hoopla and I know her hubby was ill, but
>still, it seemed unnaturally quiet from her. I do understand the forces
>that move film-making may be too strong even for her to sway one way or
>another. What do you think?

Before I say what *I* think (for what it's worth - my opinion is 
objectively no more valid than anyone else's), a few things from those who 
know.

I listened to (some of) the latest Leaky Cauldron podcast earlier today, 
which included an interview with Mike Newell. He said (and I think I quote 
correctly) that Warners had encouraged him to treat the movie as a 
standalone entity without worrying about continuing plotlines, but without 
being "irresponsible". I really liked that word in this context. As long as 
the movies don't actively *contradict* each other, anything goes.

 From what was said at the time Columbus was making the first film, I got 
the distinct impression that JKR was most concerned about how things *look* 
- both from what she said, and from what Columbus et al said about her, she 
didn't care too much about what was left in and left out of the script, as 
long as it didn't mess up the continuing story. But it seems that she was 
most adamant about placing various elements in their "right place" 
visually, rather than the "right place" in the story.

I mentioned in another message that I saw Clemence Poesy going on at some 
length this morning about her experiences on the set. She underlined again 
that, as far as she knew, JKR made one visit to the set to check how things 
looked, but otherwise left Newell and his team to their own devices.

One surprising thing she mentioned though, which I don't think we've heard 
before, is that JKR was present at the first script read-through by as much 
of the assembled cast as was possible (given everyone's other commitments). 
The next day, Newell made a few changes.

OK, on to my opinions. I'm not sure I'd agree that JKR is "distancing" 
herself from the movies, but I do think she's deliberately taking a 
hands-off approach, having gained confidence in the production team. She 
was much more involved in the first film because, apart from having to 
consult on her world's general look and feel, let's remember that there 
were only four books out at the time, and we knew a lot less about the 
various threads underlining the individual plots than we do now.

Furthermore, as regards the "hoopla", she involved herself more deeply with 
the first one simply because it *was* the first one, and clearly required 
her imprimatur for all kinds of reasons. I get the impression she doesn't 
enjoy the rigmarole surrounding the premieres, etc., and that she's glad 
that the GoF roller-coaster didn't need her help in any way.

Each of the three directors to date (and certainly Kloves and Heyman) have 
acknowledged JKR's assistance when required, and it seems to me that both 
she and they feel at ease with the amount of input she has. At the same 
time, I think a deliberate and concerted effort has been made by both sides 
to make it clear that the movies are the movies, the books are the books, 
and neither should be considered a replacement for the other.

The movies *have* to stand alone, and in particular PoA, GoF and OotP, 
which are/were released at 18-month intervals, with an attendant drop in 
hype between releases, and the valuable teenage demographic getting older 
and potentially losing interest. I suspect that Heyman & Co would like to 
release the last three movies as close to each other as possible, with no 
more than a year between them. Partially to keep up the momentum, partially 
to avoid the Trio getting too old and partially (being realistic rather 
than cynical) wanting to avoid the possibility of some of the older adult 
actors meeting Richard Harris's fate before the series is done.

At the same time, though, the movies should not waste time or internal 
coherence reiterating plot elements from earlier in the series or setting 
up for the future unless strictly necessary. The movies don't need to lay 
down the same clues, or in the same order, as the books, although I'm sure 
that if (my eternal gripe) the adapters  knew the details of what was 
coming up, they could write something more appropriate to the different 
medium from the outset - although even the smallest deviations from JKR's 
plotting have met with derision from some part of the fandom or another.

Overall, given the constraints under which the movies are being made, I 
think they are doing an admirable job of keeping the whole thing 
homogenous, despite, for instance, the changes in visuals (e.g. uniforms 
and Hogwarts geography), not to mention a very different 
Dumbledore,  between the first two movies and what follows: it'll be 
interesting to see if Peter Yates changes anything more (although I'd 
expect not).

--
Richard, who's beginning to ramble (again...)



From hp at plum.cream.org  Wed Nov 30 20:02:01 2005
From: hp at plum.cream.org (Richard)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:02:01 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Setup for OOTP-Finding the Central Thread
In-Reply-To: <dmkqnq+mccf@eGroups.com>
References: <4.2.0.58.20051130114000.00b292f0@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20051130191751.00b04450@plum.cream.org>

At 18:23 30/11/2005 , Steve wrote:

<lots snipped>

>Again, the core question is, where is the central thread of the story,
>and what is just peripheral 'fill'? It's not an easy thing to determine.

Well, Heyman's on record saying that the central thread (and the reason for 
engaging Peter Yates, based entirely on his TV series, "State of Play" - I 
could go on forever just how apt the parallels are) is a political battle 
between the Ministry and the Order, with Harry caught up in the middle.

The hearing, and the events surrounding it, is required to show just how 
corrupt the political powers-that-be are. We have to see the Ministry as it 
operates normally. Before Harry (and the rest of Hogwarts) can do battle 
with Umbridge on *their* ground, we need to see Umbridge and the Ministry 
on *theirs*. And then, of course, the final showdown at the Ministry to 
show just how shallow the Ministry's power is.

It simply wouldn't work for the structure of a political thriller that the 
first time we see the Ministry, it's deserted and in darkness. This 
building and what it stands for is what the whole story is about: we need 
to see what it does.

The conflict in OotP isn't between Harry and Umbridge, it's between The 
Ministry and the Order (including Hogwarts). If we're going to see the 
Order HQ (which we will - there has been talk of JKR's input into the Black 
family tapestry), we have to see the Ministry's HQ as well: we need to set 
up our antagonists.

Everything in the story has to be subsumed into that duality: the 
officiousness, corruption and blinkered outlook of the Ministry and its 
personnel (PLEASE bring back Percy!) -v- the integrity, courage and honesty 
of Hogwarts and the Order. The pristine life inside the Ministry -v- the 
chaos at 12GP; the "agents" inside each working for the other (Arthur, 
Kingsley & Tonks -v- Malfoy & his gang); in the middle, 
Emerging-Proactive!Harry (rather than Capslock!Harry, please!) trying to 
work out why nobody wants to believe him, but being ordered to trust Snape.

So, Steve, the hearing (and the Dementor attack which leads to it) is 
anything but peripheral to the story. It IS the story!

... at least how I see it, and how I hope Goldberg and Yates see it, too.

--
Richard, swamped in spam




From HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com  Wed Nov 30 21:04:53 2005
From: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 30 Nov 2005 21:04:53 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-Movie 
Message-ID: <1133384693.218.81630.w119@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-Movie group:

Did you/will you watch the previous movies on DVD before going to see GoF in the cinema?
 

  o Yes 
  o No 


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Movie/surveys?id=12200992 

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 








From rdas at facstaff.wisc.edu  Wed Nov 30 21:18:21 2005
From: rdas at facstaff.wisc.edu (susanbones2003)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 21:18:21 -0000
Subject: Setup for OOTP
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20051130171647.00b04da0@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <dml4ut+4kmr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Richard <hp at p...> wrote:
>
Richard wrote (and I snipped)>> 
The movies *have* to stand alone, and in particular PoA, GoF and 
OotP, which are/were released at 18-month intervals, with an 
attendant drop in hype between releases, and the valuable teenage 
demographic getting older and potentially losing interest. I suspect 
that Heyman & Co would like to  release the last three movies as 
close to each other as possible, with no  more than a year between 
them. Partially to keep up the momentum, partially  to avoid the 
Trio getting too old and partially (being realistic rather than 
cynical) wanting to avoid the possibility of some of the older adult 
actors meeting Richard Harris's fate before the series is done At 
the same time, though, the movies should not waste time or internal 
> coherence reiterating plot elements from earlier in the series or 
setting up for the future unless strictly necessary. The movies 
don't need to lay down the same clues, or in the same order, as the 
books, although I'm sure that if (my eternal gripe) the adapters  
knew the details of what was coming up, they could write something 
more appropriate to the different medium from the outset - although 
even the smallest deviations from JKR's plotting have met with 
derision from some part of the fandom or another.
> 
> Overall, given the constraints under which the movies are being 
made, I 
> think they are doing an admirable job of keeping the whole thing 
> homogenous, despite, for instance, the changes in visuals (e.g. 
uniforms and Hogwarts geography), not to mention a very different 
> Dumbledore,  between the first two movies and what follows: it'll 
be interesting to see if Peter Yates changes anything more (although 
I'd expect not).
> 
> --
> Richard, who's beginning to ramble (again...)

Richard,

Of all the books, this next one is the least able to stand alone in 
as a novel, at least that's how it strikes me. There's a million 
things going on, with lots of preparing for things and tying up 
loose ends. (and with FULLCAPS Harry, he isn't as cuddly as he used 
to be) How is this going to affect the adaptation? Is this why, 
(again in your humble opinion:))treating the films as stand alones 
is not just an option but perhaps the only option? If you can't get 
Jo to tell you what matters most (just what shouldn't happen) you 
have no compass and you have to fly blind. Make the best story with 
what you've got, I meant to say... And did I read that this too is 
going to be treated in the "thriller" mode? It makes sense, of 
course. Maybe there are only 3 main threads that have to be worked 
in to make this a reasonable story. Umbridge/Harry, Harry's 
dreams/legilmens with Snape to stop LV and then the build-up to the 
showdown at the MOM, resulting in Sirius'death. Does that sound 
workable?
J
>







From mike4521daron at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 30 23:41:45 2005
From: mike4521daron at yahoo.com (Mike Daron)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:41:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Moody's comment
In-Reply-To: <BFB2CCAA.1780%valerie.flowe@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <20051130234145.34358.qmail@web52901.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello Valerie. this mike4521daron at yahoo.com my favorite line is when moody
    change malfoy into a ferrit and started bouncing around when mrs mcgongall anyhoo
  she said what are you doing? he said teaching..........

Valerie Flowe <valerie.flowe at verizon.net> wrote:
  One line that bugged me was when Moody/Barty says to Harry ?I?ll show you
mine if you show me yours?.
Whaaat??!?!! Aside from sounding like a sexual innuendo, it seemed to imply
that V had given Harry the dark mark in the cemetery. Weird, I thought.
Valerie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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