[HPFGU-Movie] Re: SB/RL ship in OOtP- was: Oldman and Thewlis

[Karen]

From: "chintz22" <chintz22 at yahoo.com>

I don't remember much in the POA book that made me wonder about ship
issues, but in POA the film I thought the few scenes we were given of
SB and RL were open to interpretation-how Black and Lupin interacted
in the Shack, how concerned Black was for Lupin during the
transformation, Lupin's comments as he was packing.  I absolutely
think someone could interpret those scenes as SB and RL just being
good friends and the werewolf issue but I think the potential that
they could be seen as something more is there as well.

kchupis:
I suppose so, but it seems - well, not far-fetched but the fact is the "big
secret" in PoA is that Remus is a werewolf. That secret is the crux of the
entire plot, and to much of the history of the entire arch. Why there would
be an underriding relationship theme (outside of brotherhood) seems to me to
be trying to make something of nothing. I suppose one could parallel
werewolfism to homosexuality but it would apply to *any* issue that is not
universally regarded as "acceptable" by *general* society measures. I'm not
sure why any movie portraying close male relationships always cause a
certain segment to make this jump. I also find it tends to be a more
"American" point of view than otherwise, but that is just an anecdotal
observation from my experience but it was the same with LOTR. Sam and Frodo
simply had to be more than close friends (when actually in the books even
the class separation never really went away. Sam *always* considered Frodo
"Mr. Frodo"). It almost seems like a homophobic symptom to me. Close
relationships seem to make people uncomfortable, as though it is an
embarassment. Don't people have close friends?

chintz22
The main
thing that made me think a bit deeper about the ship issue in the
film was Snape's "old married couple" comment.  Film Snape had used
a "throwaway" comment to try and tell the viewer something before
("out for a stroll in the moonlight?").  But then again, I could make
a valid case for seeing it as a jibe and nothing more too.

kchuplis:
To me it is more of the same of what I mentioned above. Certainly "a stroll
in the moonlight" was a veiled clue as well as jibe. People often are
described as "behaving like an old married couple" when they snark at each
other. Snape was definitely trying to "out" Remus as a werewolf to the
students without coming right out about it. Same reason he jumped right into
the study of werewolves when he was subbing for Remus.

chintz22
I wonder about the ship issue in the film of OOP because of the
history with the film of POA but more because of the book OOP.
Again, I don't think anything is blatantly said but I think there are
many more incidents in OOP the book that could be interpreted as ship-
the interactions between SB and RL, the fact that the RL moves into
#12 when nobody else does so, SB and RL giving Harry a joint present,
RL's grief when SB goes beyond the veil, etc.  I was musing on how
this will be handled in the film and just wanted to get the input of
other folks on the matter.

kchuplis:
No other members of the order were without a home as Remus is. How is that
indicative of anything else? Very old school chums, what else would he do?
"Sorry, old chum, you'll have to remain underground. I know I have all this
room, all alone, in a place I utterly detest, but it wouldn't be seemly". Of
course Remus moves into #12.  I mean, absolutely none of that can be
presumed differently other than to underscore Remus very poor state unless
the viewer/reader simply wishes it to be that way. Homeless, every time we
see Remus it is emphasized that his clothes are more tattered and patched
than the last time. Where is Remus to get money for a gift? One could almost
say that if there was a different relationship, Sirius could delve into his
fortune and at least buy Remus some new clothes once in a while. In fact, if
that had happened, I'd be much more likely to say "huh, maybe it is
Remus/Sirius".  I'm just saying it really is mystifying to me that this
should indicate anything else. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And just
in case you think I have something against this view, it is just that I am
against "reading into things" that don't have a greater basis for support. I
have plenty of homosexual friends and I think Brokeback Mountain is perhaps
the greatest love story on film. I just can't see reading it into these
particular characters.