Fictional plot holes.

[Carol]

Eggplant wrote:
> OK you're right. Unless Sirius was very late sending his gift or Lilly very late responding with a thank you letter or both, then that is a plot hole. <snip>

Carol responds:
The problem with that sort of plot hole is that it makes the already problematic matter of a plausible tiem sequence even more problematic. Of course, the movies don't have that problem (not even the "missing twenty-four hours"), so it's probably best not to discuss it here. 

Eggplant: 
> In my opinion by far the most serious plot hole in the entire series is Harry deciding not to use the Elder Wand, and wise characters who should know better agreeing that it is a smart thing to do; but even that egregious error could be rectified by changing just a couple of dozen words. This is one time where I really hope the movie makers DEPART from the book!

Carol:
And I hope they don't! That sort of thinking got Boromir into serious trouble in LOTR. :-) Seriously, though; I wouldn't call it a plot hole. It's not "a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot" (as Wikipedia defines "plot hole": it's just an ending that you as a reader find unsatisfactory (and I find perfectly sensible, in character for Harry and consistent with the themes of the book, in particular the importance of love and self-sacrifice).

Eggplant: 
> It's not a plot hole but the biggest flaw in the series is Percy turning out to be a good guy after all, what a colossally boring thing to happen. Here we have a great opportunity and it's completely wasted! Why on Earth did JKR invent Percy? What is his purpose in life? I have absolutely no idea.

Carol responds:
Again, it's not a plot hole but a personal preference. Now if Wormtail had been welcomed back by the Marauders . . . .

I rather like pompous, wrong-headed Percy though I'd get tired of his talk about the Ministry and cauldron bottoms rather quickly. We see in GoF when he runs into the water to make sure that Ron is safe (looking younger than usual, probably because he's not playing a man twice his age for a change) that he really cares about his family (he also expresses concern for Ginny in CoS, too, which Ron and Harry dismiss but which I think is genuine--no one else even seemed to notice that she was pale and not herself). In OoP, he gets a promotion (after surviving the interrogation regarding Mr. Crouch) and expects his parents to be excited and proud. Instead, Mr. Weasley suggests that they've only hired him to spy on his family (which, IMO, is only partly true--surely, they can't have overlooked his devotion to the Ministry). Naturally, in the face of distrust from his father and antagonism from his brothers, he shouts all the things he's been holding back all those years and storms out, going back to the only place where his talents appear to be appreciated, the Ministry. (I wonder if there's supposed to be a vague parallel with the young Severus rejected by Lily and joining the DEs for acceptance and a hope of achieving his ambitions.) Percy faces the antagonism of his brothers and Ginny when he comes home for Christmas. He's already aware that he's made a big mistake (or several) regarding Voldemort and Umbridge on the one hand and Harry and DD on the other (he shows up for DD's funeral). In the face of real danger to everyone in his family at the Battle of Hogwarts, he swallows his pride and apologizes, and Fred, of all people, readily accepts his apology. The two brothers actually find a moment of cameraderie, fighting and joking side by side, before Fred dies with his laughter on his lips, and we see Percy's anguish at his death. For me, that's one of the most painfully ironic moments in the book (along with Fred and George's "We're identical!" when they're Polyjuiced as Harry, only to have George lose his ear a short time later).

Obviously, no two readers will agree, but I think Percy is important to the motif of family that runs through all the books. In the long run, he overcomes his own pride and joins his family, finally, after all these years, getting his priorities straight (but still the same old Ministry-loving Percy once *it* gets its priorities straight). So you find it boring; I find it moving. (I find Quidditch boring and a waste of paper, but I'm sure that other people love it.)

Eggplant: 
> Imagine if Harry and the gang didn't get dragged off to Malfoy Manor because of some silly slip of the tongue by Harry but because of Percy's treachery. Wonderful dramatic stuff could ensue, including brother on brother homicide. It doesn't get much better than that. But to accomplish that noble goal you'd have to change many thousands of words. If the moviemakers can pull that off then my respect for them would increase about twenty thousand percent. 

Carol:
Somehow, I don't think brother-on-brother homicide quite fits with the themes JKR had in mind (even Sirius and Regulus end up on the same side, though Sirius never knows it, and Aberforth and Albus work together without ever understanding each other. Albus's anguish in the cave shows that he does love Aberforth, and maybe Aberforth understands that at last in the end.) As for the "silly slip of the tongue," I agree that having the name Voldemort suddenly taboo (as if those who feared to speak it were right all along) is a bit of a deus ex machina in reverse. Coincidence at work, anyway--if they hadn't been kidnapped, they'd never have found out that Bellatrix has a Horcrux in her Gringotts vault. (Good coming out of evil once again.)

Eggplant:  
> By the way, the cliffhanger of Harry and friends being lead away in chains to torture and certain death at the Malfoy Manor is the break point between part 1 and part 2 of the DH movie. 

Carol:
Are you sure? (Chains?) I read that the filmmakers had decided to end DH1 with a cliffhanger but no specifics. Do you happen to have a link?

Carol, thanking Eggplant for getting us back onto the topic of films