From willsonkmom at msn.com  Mon Mar  2 03:45:19 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 03:45:19 -0000
Subject: Fun at the Movies
Message-ID: <gofkof+4mqk@eGroups.com>

A few questions, just for fun.

Do you have any favorite scenes in any of the movies? Ones that you 
just particularly like, and why? 

Are there any scenes in the movies that you actually like better than 
the books? Again, why. Or, did you like any characters better in the 
movies than the books?

Do you have any funny stories about going to the HP movies?

Potioncat, weary from the family night of Lord of the Rings, but really 
liked the line, "Kill the troll!"






From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Mon Mar  2 04:33:09 2009
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 23:33:09 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <gofkof+4mqk@eGroups.com>
References: <gofkof+4mqk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <431ba0d66d33990b1a5c2f5502d67dba@verizon.net>

- I like Snape and Lucius better in the movies than in the books.
Also Luna. She's more spacy/adorable than batty.
- I really love the "You tell those spiders Ron!" when Ron is having a 
nightmare about spiders. Cute!
- And also the added scene of the boys clowning around in their dorms 
eating the candy. Nice touch.
- I thought the Ministry of Magic scene with the death-eaters in OotP 
was much more visually exciting in the movie than was described in the 
book. Much more dramatic and grandiose. And the effects of the DE's 
flying like black smoke and the Order flying like white smoke, was 
quite cool.
The Dumbledore/Voldemort scene was quite powerful with all the 
shattering glass, though I still hate that they left out the line in 
the book where Voldemort, speaking through Harry, tells Dumbledore to 
kill him. Much more poignant in the the book version, IMO.
Gosh, I could go on, but now I will have to go back and see all the 
movies again!
Today I came across OotP in Spanish on cable...I watched it for awhile 
(I don't speak Spanish, lol) but because I've seen the American version 
25x, I knew what they were saying. Hermione sounded just like herself. 
As did Luna! Very weird to hear Spanish coming out of Harry's mouth, 
though. And Umbridge was just as hideous and evil in Spanish as she was 
in English!

On Mar 1, 2009, at 10:45 PM, potioncat wrote:

> A few questions, just for fun.
>
>  Do you have any favorite scenes in any of the movies? Ones that you
>  just particularly like, and why?
>
>  Are there any scenes in the movies that you actually like better than
>  the books? Again, why. Or, did you like any characters better in the
>  movies than the books?
>
>  Do you have any funny stories about going to the HP movies?
>
>  Potioncat, weary from the family night of Lord of the Rings, but 
> really
>  liked the line, "Kill the troll!"
>
> 




From CatMcNulty at comcast.net  Mon Mar  2 20:33:42 2009
From: CatMcNulty at comcast.net (Cat)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:33:42 -0000
Subject: The HP moments that always makes me smile... .
In-Reply-To: <gofkof+4mqk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gohfr6+6rko@eGroups.com>


Moment .... 
The first and most impressive moment was in "Harry Potter and the 
Sorcerer's Stone"... the moment that Harry saw Diagon Alley for the 
first time. His wonder and awe matched my own when I "saw" my 
imagination come to life on screen. 
In that moment was just the beginning of a marvelous moment for Harry 
and me.  

Line ...
From...Goblet of Fire...Harry enters the tent and says, "I love Magic"


What's yours?

Cat >^-.-^<




From sartoris22 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  2 23:18:35 2009
From: sartoris22 at yahoo.com (sartoris22)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 23:18:35 -0000
Subject: Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <gohlif+8vth@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gohpgb+8tbt@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "cubfanbudwoman" <susiequsie23 at ...> 
wrote:
>
> Potioncat:
> > A few questions, just for fun.
> > 
> > Do you have any favorite scenes in any of the movies? Ones that you 
> > just particularly like, and why? 
> 

sartoris22:

I'm a Ron fan, and he has some great moments such as saying "I'm 
hungry" when Hermoine asks "Don't you ever stop eating?" The scene when 
he says "Hey, Hermione, you're a girl" when he's about to ask her to 
the Yule Ball. When he turns toward the twins when he's dancing with 
Minerva. When he tells Harry to "piss off" after learning Harry has 
been chosen for the Triwiard Tournament. Those are just a few great Ron 
moments, and I can't wait until HBP because Ron's role has been 
enlarged.





From siskiou at gmail.com  Tue Mar  3 00:53:41 2009
From: siskiou at gmail.com (Susanne)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:53:41 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <gofkof+4mqk@eGroups.com>
References: <gofkof+4mqk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <786244998.20090302165341@gmail.com>



Hi,

Sunday, March 1, 2009, 7:45:19 PM, willsonkmom at msn.com wrote:

> Do you have any favorite scenes in any of the movies? Ones that you
> just particularly like, and why?

Even after all the movies, the stand out for me is
still the chess game scene in HP and the SS!
It was the start of my admiration for Rupert
Grint's acting skills.
He was outstanding!

> Are there any scenes in the movies that you
> actually like better than 
> the books? Again, why. Or, did you like any
> characters better in the 
> movies than the books?

Hm, not sure. I don't think so. It's usually the
opposite! :)

> Do you have any funny stories about going to the HP movies?

I was determined to never watch the movies or read
the books, because it was such a hype, but my
husband and daughter made me go to see SS with
them for my birthday! It was a "gift" and I
couldn't refuse.
If only they'd known what they would start! :D


-- 
 
Best regards,
 Susanne                           mailto:siskiou at gmail.com




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Tue Mar  3 01:52:33 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:52:33 -0000
Subject: Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <gohlif+8vth@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <goi2h1+amt9@eGroups.com>


> Potioncat: 
> > Do you have any funny stories about going to the HP movies?
> 
> SSSusan:
  When we arrived, not only wasn't there a 
> crowd, the doors weren't even unlocked. ;)
> Thanks, Potioncat, for keeping the discussion going.


Potioncat:

You're welcomed!

For some reason I couldn't see OoP right away. I'd encouraged my sons 
to see the movie earlier. As soon as I could, I went by myself. It 
seemed to me the movie had been out a while, so I was surprised the 
theater was so full. Granted, it wasn't the biggest one in the house.

I was there alone, and I was anticipating a certain scene. I don't 
even remember which one it was, but I was actively thinking, how are 
they going to...

Well it happened and one quarter of the audiance gasped, obviously 
non-readers not expecting it at all. I burst out in laughter at their 
reaction---there I sat, laughing away in an otherwise silent theater.




From Mhochberg at aol.com  Tue Mar  3 03:26:44 2009
From: Mhochberg at aol.com (Mhochberg at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:26:44 -0500
Subject: Fun at the Movies
Message-ID: <8CB69C703300528-DE8-1E6C@webmail-db17.sysops.aol.com>

Valerie wrote:


            - I like Snape and Lucius better in the movies than in the books.


Also Luna. She's more spacy/adorable than batty.


- I really love the "You tell those spiders Ron!" when Ron is having a 


nightmare about spiders. Cute!


- And also the added scene of the boys clowning around in their dorms 


eating the candy. Nice touch.


- I thought the Ministry of Magic scene with the death-eaters in OotP 


was much more visually exciting in the movie than was described in the 


book. Much more dramatic and grandiose. And the effects of the DE's 


flying like black smoke and the Order flying like white smoke, was 


quite cool.


The Dumbledore/Voldemort scene was quite powerful with all the 


shattering glass, though I still hate that they left out the line in 


the book where Voldemort, speaking through Harry, tells Dumbledore to 


kill him. Much more poignant in the the book version, IMO.


Gosh, I could go on, but now I will have to go back and see all the 


movies again!


Today I came across OotP in Spanish on cable...I watched it for awhile 


(I don't speak Spanish, lol) but because I've seen the American version 


25x, I knew what they were saying. Hermione sounded just like herself. 


As did Luna! Very weird to hear Spanish coming out of Harry's mouth, 


though. And Umbridge was just as hideous and evil in Spanish as she was 


in English!

 

Mary wrote back:

You picked many of my favorite scenes also! I had not thought about
Snape, Lucius, & Luna in the way you had but I agree about Lucius
& Luna. I'm not sure about Snape. While I like Rickman, movie Snape
is too two dimensional, especially in the later movies.



>From the first movie, I have several favorite scenes: what chocolate
frogs do (jump, sometimes out windows), Hermione fixing Harry's glasses
(I wondered how he learned to repair them), and why Hagrid jinxed
Dudley and not Vernon (he was eating Harry's cake).



I've tried watching the movies in other languages but my ear is not
good enough to distinguish accents and the movies lost some of their
flavor. After the first two movies, I stopped trying as everyone
sounded alike to me.



---Mary 

 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Tue Mar  3 04:05:29 2009
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 23:05:29 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <gohpgb+8tbt@eGroups.com>
References: <gohpgb+8tbt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcb5e1cb1b6e49977aec2212c64738d7@verizon.net>

>  sartoris22:
>
>  I'm a Ron fan, and he has some great moments such as saying "I'm
>  hungry" when Hermoine asks "Don't you ever stop eating?"

I was just watching that movie again and the only thing that bugged me 
about that scene was how Ginny was staring at Ron pigging out somewhat 
in disbelief. Hello?! She's his sister...I'm sure she's seen him pig 
out many a time. Unless the Weasleys are so poor and their family so 
large that she's never seen Ron having the opportunity to pig out so 
much?




From captainjackswomen at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  3 04:11:41 2009
From: captainjackswomen at yahoo.com (Lady of Imladris)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 20:11:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] The HP moments that always makes me smile... .
In-Reply-To: <gohfr6+6rko@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <820571.6807.qm@web59808.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

My favorite scenes are when Sirius Black is introduced and Harry found out
he had family. 

I also like it in Chamber of Secrets when Fawkes comes to help Harry I think
that is so touching. 



Love,
Red

--- On Mon, 3/2/09, Cat <CatMcNulty at comcast.net> wrote:
From: Cat <CatMcNulty at comcast.net>
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] The HP moments that always makes me smile... .
To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 12:33 PM

Moment .... 
The first and most impressive moment was in "Harry Potter and the 
Sorcerer's Stone"... the moment that Harry saw Diagon Alley for the 
first time. His wonder and awe matched my own when I "saw" my 
imagination come to life on screen. 
In that moment was just the beginning of a marvelous moment for Harry 
and me.  

Line ...
From...Goblet of Fire...Harry enters the tent and says, "I love
Magic"


What's yours?

Cat >^-.-^<



------------------------------------


Remember to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying!

Any questions or problems - contact the List Elves at
HPforGrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Tue Mar  3 04:10:59 2009
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 23:10:59 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] The HP moments that always makes me smile... .
In-Reply-To: <820571.6807.qm@web59808.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <820571.6807.qm@web59808.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <87e5c23d7110ba52cc14858d7b081adb@verizon.net>

Oh and one that always makes me laugh and I have to quote aloud with 
the movie is in POA.
Stan Shunpike "What you fell over for?"
Harry "I didn't do it on purpose!"
Stan: "Well c'mon then! Let's not wait for the grass to grow......move 
on, move on. move ON!"
He did such a great job that guy!




From smrtblnde at hotmail.com  Tue Mar  3 01:58:43 2009
From: smrtblnde at hotmail.com (smart blonde)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 20:58:43 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <gofkof+4mqk@eGroups.com>
References: <gofkof+4mqk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <BAY131-W489F5F1DAF6336FFFB1EE3B6A60@phx.gbl>






            A few questions, just for fun.



Do you have any favorite scenes in any of the movies? Ones that you

just particularly like, and why?

I absolutely adore the Quidditch explanation scene In the Sorcerer's Stone.  Sean Biggerstaff and Daniel have great chemistry and were incredibly believable.  (To me, obviously.)  Daniel's wonder and awe and Sean's obssession as Oliver.

Do you have any funny stories about going to the HP movies?
I had just gotten a new job when OOTP came out.  So I fibbed a little and took the afternoon off to go see it the day after the premier.  Feeling pretty safe, I enjoyed the movie only to walk out of the theater and into my new boss and her children.  Thankfully, she's as big a fan as I am so I got to keep my job and I've never fibbed to her since!

smart blonde



From lizzy1933 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  4 03:51:51 2009
From: lizzy1933 at yahoo.com (Lizzie Mae Lilly)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 03:51:51 -0000
Subject: Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <8CB69C703300528-DE8-1E6C@webmail-db17.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <goktsn+lsbb@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Mhochberg at ... wrote:
> 
> You picked many of my favorite scenes also! I had not thought about
> Snape, Lucius, & Luna in the way you had but I agree about Lucius
> & Luna. I'm not sure about Snape. While I like Rickman, movie Snape
> is too two dimensional, especially in the later movies.
> <snip>
> 

You can hardly blame Snape's lack of dimension on AR; he does the best he can with the material he's given! ;-)

Lizzie 




From montavilla47 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  4 08:38:33 2009
From: montavilla47 at yahoo.com (montavilla47)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 08:38:33 -0000
Subject: Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <gofkof+4mqk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <golem9+lqni@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:
>
> A few questions, just for fun.
> 
> Do you have any favorite scenes in any of the movies? Ones that you 
> just particularly like, and why? 

Montavilla47:

Definitely.  I love the dueling club scene in CoS.  When I found out that
Kenneth Branagh was cast as Lockhart, the thought of Alan Rickman
and Branagh fighting each other with little sticks filled me with delight.

The moment did not disappoint.

Likewise, I was looking forward to the confrontation in the Shrieking
Shack in PoA and that was also a great scene.  

I also love the flying scene in PoA--mainly because the music is truly
wonderful.  And the closing credits are so fun to watch!  I tend to watch
them, even having seen the film probably a dozen times.  

I like the Diagon Alley scene in PS/SS.  It's a moment when the Wizarding 
World really comes alive.  That whole sequence, from the alley to Harry's
first day at Hogwarts is--well--magical.

It's harder to think of scenes I really, really like from GoF or OotP.  I 
guess my favorite scenes from GoF are the one where Harry asks 
Cho to the Yule Ball and the Ball itself.  I love (again with the music)
the transition from the dance lesson (which is very funny) into that
lovely waltz--oh, especially the way Neville is the bravest boy in 
class when he stands up! Incidentallly, Patrick Doyle is my 
favorite movie composer.  

I like seeing the kids in their good clothes--Cho is so pretty in
that white dress.  I like the way the "formal" part of the ball
turns into a screaming and pogo dancing when the Weird Sisters
sing.  I love that closing shot with all the girls sitting on the 
stairs crying. 

I can't really say that I really enjoyed any particular scene in
OotP.  Maybe that one where Harry tells Hermione and Ron
about kissing Cho.  

Potioncat:
> Are there any scenes in the movies that you actually like better than 
> the books? Again, why. Or, did you like any characters better in the 
> movies than the books?

It's funny, because I hated the "blowing up Aunt Marge" scene the 
first time I saw it, but now I really like it.  Much more than the 
book version.  I also like Aunt Marge more, because the actress
was really good at being horrible.  

Hmm.  Why do I like it better?  It just seems very exotic in the way
it's staged and filmed.  It's really unnecessary that it be so long
and drawn out, but it works.  And it gets better the more I see it.

The Trelawney scenes are pretty good, too, especially as they are
short.  Oh, and I'll probably get hate mail for this, but I like
the scene where Harry runs off after hearing about Sirius being
his godfather.  It's not so much that Dan yells out the line (I don't
mind, but I don't love it).  What I love is the way Emma reaches out
to pull off the cloak.  It's so gentle.

I love the Shrieking Shack confrontation.  That's a really well-written
scene between three outstanding actors.  They manage to convey 
everything we need to know about the relationships between these
characters.  It's amazing to me that the screenwriter managed to 
boil down three chapters into maybe half a dozen lines.

And I love the scene when they all emerge from the tunnel, 
Lupin transforms, and Snape throws out his arms to protect
the children.  It's not just that Snape is being protective and
that seems so in character (to me).  It's the colors and the 
black and the pink of Hermione's jacket that make the scene
incredible.  I also love that little whispered moment between
Hermione and Ron as Harry and Sirius move away to have 
their conversation.  

As far as characters go.  I think that I starting liking Draco more 
in the movies, and definitely liking Lucius more.  In the books, 
Draco has a bit of  appeal if you look for it, while Lucius is plain nasty. 
But both theactiors manage to make the characters a bit more interesting 
and fun.  At least, they both dress really well, and it's surprising how
that adds to the appeal.

Potioncat:
> Do you have any funny stories about going to the HP movies?

Not really.  Sorry.







From VimesLady at comcast.net  Wed Mar  4 13:52:30 2009
From: VimesLady at comcast.net (VimesLady)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 13:52:30 -0000
Subject: Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <BAY131-W489F5F1DAF6336FFFB1EE3B6A60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <gom12u+sa0o@eGroups.com>

Snape's very first appearance, the "Stopper death" introductory speech, was what first hooked me on Harry Potter, so it's always the first that comes to mind.

The twins' fireworks display during the exam in OotP always makes me feel like standing up and cheering.



--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, smart blonde <smrtblnde at ...> wrote:

>             A few questions, just for fun.
> 
> Do you have any favorite scenes in any of the movies? Ones that you
> just particularly like, and why?
> 





From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  4 19:42:35 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 19:42:35 -0000
Subject: DH actors
In-Reply-To: <go6pjd+r3cb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gomljb+iu4d@eGroups.com>

It seems that they cast an actress to play Hermione's mother in DH. Didn't we already see Hermione's parents in CoS? Does anyone know if it's the same actress or a different one?

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2009/3/4/mrs-granger-cast-for-harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows


zanooda




From joeydebs at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  4 20:43:40 2009
From: joeydebs at yahoo.com (Debi)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 20:43:40 -0000
Subject: DH actors
In-Reply-To: <gomljb+iu4d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gomp5s+u5v2@eGroups.com>

zanooda:
<snip>
> Didn't we already see Hermione's parents in CoS? Does anyone know if
> it's the same actress or a different one?


I looked it up and the actress who played Hermione's mother in CoS was Heather Bleasdale. This time it's Michelle Fairley.

Debi



From md at exit-reality.com  Wed Mar  4 22:23:56 2009
From: md at exit-reality.com (Cabal)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 17:23:56 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <gom12u+sa0o@eGroups.com>
References: <BAY131-W489F5F1DAF6336FFFB1EE3B6A60@phx.gbl> <gom12u+sa0o@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <003c01c99d17$e9077b00$bb167100$@com>

But his whole "no wand waving or silly incantations" was a real misfire,
since he waves his wand and does silly incantations constantly!

 

md

 

From: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of VimesLady
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:53 AM
To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Fun at the Movies

 

Snape's very first appearance, the "Stopper death" introductory speech, was
what first hooked me on Harry Potter, so it's always the first that comes to
mind.

The twins' fireworks display during the exam in OotP always makes me feel
like standing up and cheering.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From md at exit-reality.com  Wed Mar  4 22:26:15 2009
From: md at exit-reality.com (Cabal)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 17:26:15 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: DH actors
In-Reply-To: <gomp5s+u5v2@eGroups.com>
References: <gomljb+iu4d@eGroups.com> <gomp5s+u5v2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <004101c99d18$3bbfeee0$b33fcca0$@com>

Her parents where mere background. They don't talk and if you aren't looking
for them you don't even notice them I COS.

 

If anyone wants research on who plays who the best tool is imdb.com

 

md

 

From: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Debi
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 3:44 PM
To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: DH actors

 

zanooda:
<snip>
> Didn't we already see Hermione's parents in CoS? Does anyone know if 
> it's the same actress or a different one?

I looked it up and the actress who played Hermione's mother in CoS was
Heather Bleasdale. This time it's Michelle Fairley. 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From lizzy1933 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  5 06:40:18 2009
From: lizzy1933 at yahoo.com (Lizzie Mae Lilly)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 06:40:18 -0000
Subject: DH actors
In-Reply-To: <gomljb+iu4d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gons4i+pjpr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:
>
> It seems that they cast an actress to play Hermione's mother in DH. Didn't we already see Hermione's parents in CoS? Does anyone know if it's the same actress or a different one?
> 
> http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2009/3/4/mrs-granger-cast-for-harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows
> 
> 
> zanooda
>

Huh, so they've had to invent three or four scenes to fill out two movies?  Do you suppose the Grangers will finally be gifted with first names?  One would hope so!

Lizzie





From lizzy1933 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  5 06:43:29 2009
From: lizzy1933 at yahoo.com (Lizzie Mae Lilly)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 06:43:29 -0000
Subject: DH actors
In-Reply-To: <gons4i+pjpr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gonsah+o46u@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Lizzie Mae Lilly" > 
> Huh, so they've had to invent three or four scenes to fill out two movies?  Do you suppose the Grangers will finally be gifted with first names?  One would hope so!
> 
> Lizzie
>

And she really doesn't need to bother reading the books or seeing the movies, considering Hermione's parents don't appear enough to even have first names (see above post). /sarcasm

Lizzie







From charober at sympatico.ca  Fri Mar  6 00:24:16 2009
From: charober at sympatico.ca (Charlotte Roberts)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 00:24:16 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: DH actors
In-Reply-To: <gons4i+pjpr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F34175453C64069DD2DA040B3A50@phx.gbl>

I was disappointed that it was never revealed what the Grangers' (parents) 
first names were, let alone any other information other than their 
occupations being dentists.  :(

That doesn't seem typical of JKR, putting in knowledgeable characters but 
not being able to fill in any information to add another flavour to the 
dynamic book series.  Just because they're Muggles doesn't mean we can't get 
to know them... unless anyone came up with any information on their own as 
to what her parents would be like if more was revealed about them?  
(Especially first names!  lol.)

Charlotte


>From: "Lizzie Mae Lilly" <lizzy1933 at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
>To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: DH actors
>Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 06:40:18 -0000
>
>--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:
> >
> > It seems that they cast an actress to play Hermione's mother in DH. 
>Didn't we already see Hermione's parents in CoS? Does anyone know if it's 
>the same actress or a different one?
> >
> > 
>http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2009/3/4/mrs-granger-cast-for-harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows
> >
> >
> > zanooda
> >
>
>Huh, so they've had to invent three or four scenes to fill out two movies?  
>Do you suppose the Grangers will finally be gifted with first names?  One 
>would hope so!
>
>Lizzie
>
>





From willsonkmom at msn.com  Fri Mar  6 12:58:44 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:58:44 -0000
Subject: Names. was DH actors
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F34175453C64069DD2DA040B3A50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <gor6m4+f1pt@eGroups.com>

 "Charlotte Roberts" wrote:
>
> I was disappointed that it was never revealed what the Grangers' (parents) 
> first names were, let alone any other information other than their 
> occupations being dentists.  :(

Potioncat:
It's very obvious what their names are. The Grangers' first names were Rose and Hugo. 


Yes, they were! Look at it, Ginny's kids are named after Harry's "family" and Bill's daughter has a French name. It appears Fred and George were named for Molly's brothers. So the Weasley naming tradition is to name children after the family-in-law.

Rose and Hugo have been bugging me ever since the book came out! Can't imagine why I didn't figure this out sooner.




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  6 16:40:24 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 16:40:24 -0000
Subject: Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <gohlif+8vth@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gorjlo+lquq@eGroups.com>


SSSusan wrote:
><big snip>
> What I *didn't* like as well as the book, though, was the 1st task in GoF.  I didn't care for the liberties the director took with Harry & his dragon. <another big snip--sorry!>

Carol responds:

I agree completely. They overdid the dragon scene (completely ignoring the fact that it was a female guarding its eggs, not to mention all that superfluous damage to the Hogwarts building and grounds that seems to magically repair itself) when it was already sufficiently exciting in the book. 

The second task, I thought, was well done (though I missed having Percy wade out to Ron, showing just how worried he'd been about his little brother), but the third task was really strange, with the maze itself having some sort of Dark magical desire to strangle people and a sinister influence on their minds. Where were the Sphinx and the Acromantulas and the Blast-Ended Skrewts? I guess the special effects had wasted their budget and their talents on the Hungarian horntail.

Carol, still trying to think of a scene that she likes better in the movies than the books





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  6 17:26:42 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 17:26:42 -0000
Subject: Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <golem9+lqni@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gormci+frv5@eGroups.com>

Montavilla47 wrote:
> <snip> It's funny, because I hated the "blowing up Aunt Marge" scene the first time I saw it, but now I really like it.  Much more than the book version.  I also like Aunt Marge more, because the actress was really good at being horrible.  

Carol responds:
I laughed out loud at that scene in the theater, which is odd because I don't like it all that much in the book. But Aunt Marge "blowing up" like a balloon with all her buttons popping off and her stockings running and floating out into the garden and Vernon trying to hold her, letting go and yelling "Sorry!" as she floats off into the air and Ripper the bulldog is attacking Vernon as if it's his fault is just so well orchestrated that I really enjoy it. 

And, as you say, the actress, Pam Ferris, is, as you say, "really good at being horrible." In fact, if they hadn't already cast her as Aunt Marge, she'd have been perfect as Umbridge, at least as far as looks are concerned. I don't know if she could have pulled off the sickly sweet act, though. Imelda Staunton had the personality down; she just didn't look the part (short, dumpy, and toad-faced). Merge the two and you have the perfect Umbridge--but, then, Pam Ferris was the perfect Aunt Marge.

I also liked some of the other special effects in that film, especially the Dementors, which seemed more loathsome and terrifying than they did in OoP, and the scene with Harry flying over the lake on Buckbeak that SSS mentioned, which is both beautiful and believable. But the werewolf is all wrong, and I don't like the line they give to Snape about the difference between a werewolf and an Animagus. I suppose it was their way of foreshadowing the transformations of Sirius Black into a dog and Scabbers into the travesty of a man, but I didn't care for it. Still, any line or scene that they assign to Rickman!Snape is a bonus just because it's so much fun to watch him.

Carol, who just discovered that Pam Ferris has appeared in half a dozen film adaptations of nineteenth-century novels and that she was the horrible Mrs. Squeers in "Nicholas Nickleby." Who knew?




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  6 17:55:58 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 17:55:58 -0000
Subject: DH actors
In-Reply-To: <gomljb+iu4d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <goro3e+c18u@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:
>
> It seems that they cast an actress to play Hermione's mother in DH. Didn't we already see Hermione's parents in CoS? Does anyone know if it's the same actress or a different one?
> 
> http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2009/3/4/mrs-granger-cast-for-harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows
> 
> 
> zanooda
>
Carol responds:

Not only that, they've cast an actress, Melanie Slade, as Hermione's friend who watches a Quidditch game with her!

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/sports/theo-walcotts-girlfriend-lands-role-in-harry-potter-film_100161618.html

http://tinyurl.com/betpvk

They've made the book into two movies only to add uncanonical scenes? 

Maybe the Quidditch game substitutes for Bill and Fleur's wedding as the scene of the DEs' attack? How will they handle that?

Besides, the kids aren't a Hogwarts, so Ron and Harry won't be playing and Hermione, no Quidditch fan, has no reason to attend a game. But presumably, the boys will be with her. It would be impossible to get them to Tottenham Court Road with her if they were playing.

OTOH, after the Seven Potters scene, they'd have no reason to go to a Quidditch game (did the teams even play after the DE takeover of the Ministry?) and before that, Harry has to stay safely at 4 Privet Drive.

It sounds as if they're really taking unnecessary liberties with the story.

Potioncat wrote:
> It's very obvious what their names are. The Grangers' first names were Rose and Hugo.

> Yes, they were! Look at it, Ginny's kids are named after Harry's "family" and Bill's daughter has a French name. It appears Fred and George were named for Molly's brothers. So the Weasley naming tradition is to name children after the family-in-law. <snip>

Carol responds:
Well, not exactly. Molly's brothers were Fabian and Gideon Prewett, so Molly gave their first initials to Fred and George but not their names. Some of the middle names are for relatives, though. I think that JKR said in an interview that Ginny's middle name is Molly (after her mother) and Ron's is Bilius, after his uncle (presumably Arthur's unfortunately named brother).

I always figured that Rose and Hugo were named on the same principle as Fred and George, with the boy being given his mother's first initial (H) and the daughter her father's (R). 

And there's always the possibility that the Grangers' first names are Wendell and Monica, the names that Book!Hermione gave them when she sent them to Australia as the Wilkinses. (I hope that they still remember how to set up a dental practice and fill cavities!)

Carol, who feels that DH is off to a very unpromising start and wishes that they'd follow the book more closely!





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  6 18:02:32 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 18:02:32 -0000
Subject: The HP moments that always makes me smile... .
In-Reply-To: <87e5c23d7110ba52cc14858d7b081adb@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <gorofo+vd1v@eGroups.com>

Valerie Flowe wrote:
>
> Oh and one that always makes me laugh and I have to quote aloud with  the movie is in POA.
> Stan Shunpike "What you fell over for?"
> Harry "I didn't do it on purpose!"
> Stan: "Well c'mon then! Let's not wait for the grass to grow......move on, move on. move ON!"
> He did such a great job that guy!
>
Carol responds:
And the make-up department did a great job on him, too, making him look appropriately pimply. Here's what the actor, Lee Ingleby, really looks like:

http://us.imdb.com/media/rm1127845888/nm0408846

So he has the right build and features but the wrong complexion in real life. Great casting, and he has the accent down, too.

Carol, who wants to see the same guy playing Stan in DH but doesn't have her hopes up at this point with all the nonsensical script changes




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  6 21:55:10 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 21:55:10 -0000
Subject: DH actors
In-Reply-To: <goro3e+c18u@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gos63u+d33p@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

> they've cast an actress, Melanie Slade, as Hermione's friend who 
> watches a Quidditch game with her!
 
> http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/sports/theo-walcotts-girlfriend-lands-role-in-harry-potter-film_100161618.html
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/betpvk


zanooda:

This is really puzzling. There is no Quidditch in DH, and I can't imagine any scene involving Quidditch for this movie :-). I really don't understand why they have to invent something like this. There is enough material in this book for two movies, no need to add non-existing Quidditch :-). As for Hermione's parents - I think that maybe the movie-makers decided to include a scene where Hermione modifies their memories?





From montavilla47 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  7 04:50:02 2009
From: montavilla47 at yahoo.com (montavilla47)
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 04:50:02 -0000
Subject: Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <gormci+frv5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gosudq+rqj0@eGroups.com>

> Montavilla47 wrote:
> > <snip> It's funny, because I hated the "blowing up Aunt Marge" scene the first time I saw it, but now I really like it.  Much more than the book version.  I also like Aunt Marge more, because the actress was really good at being horrible.  
> 
> Carol responds:
> And, as you say, the actress, Pam Ferris, is, as you say, "really good at being horrible." In fact, if they hadn't already cast her as Aunt Marge, she'd have been perfect as Umbridge, at least as far as looks are concerned. I don't know if she could have pulled off the sickly sweet act, though. Imelda Staunton had the personality down; she just didn't look the part (short, dumpy, and toad-faced). Merge the two and you have the perfect Umbridge--but, then, Pam Ferris was the perfect Aunt Marge.

Montavilla47:
I had this secret hope that they would cast Judi Dench as Umbridge, because...
well, don't tell her I said this, but she looks a bit toad-like to me.  I think she 
would have been terrifying as Umbridge and it would have been great to see her 
and Maggie Smith go at it in that counseling session with Harry.

That said, I felt that the next-best choice would definitely have been 
Imelda Staunton.  I've loved her ever since seeing her in Emma Thompson's
comedy show (which also had appearances by Robbie Coltrane and Kenneth
Branagh, of course).


Carol:
> I also liked some of the other special effects in that film, especially the Dementors, which seemed more loathsome and terrifying than they did in OoP, and the scene with Harry flying over the lake on Buckbeak that SSS mentioned, which is both beautiful and believable. 

Montavilla47:
I feel like PoA is the most "magical" of the films. They did a lot more with the 
portraits, for example.  In the scene where the Fat Lady is hiding, you can see
the figures in the pictures running all over the walls.  

There's a scene that was cut out of the film where Ron and Hermione tell 
Harry about Hogsmeade, and there are about a dozen kids in the background
doing magic tricks.  And there are those floating planets and the candles
that light and go out magically in Lupin's office.... all wonderful details.

Carol:
But the werewolf is all wrong, and I don't like the line they give to Snape about the difference between a werewolf and an Animagus. I suppose it was their way of foreshadowing the transformations of Sirius Black into a dog and Scabbers into the travesty of a man, but I didn't care for it. Still, any line or scene that they assign to Rickman!Snape is a bonus just because it's so much fun to watch him.

Montavilla47:
So true! :)  Plus, Snape looked really good in that film.  Again, I think it had
to do with the color palette of the film (something I almost never notice).  
Another favorite moment for me is when Snape appears out of the darkness
while Harry is searching for Peter.  That whole scene is great.






From willsonkmom at msn.com  Sat Mar  7 14:37:20 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 14:37:20 -0000
Subject: Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <gosudq+rqj0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gou0r0+sfcr@eGroups.com>

 
> Montavilla47:
> I had this secret hope that they would cast Judi Dench as Umbridge, because...
> well, don't tell her I said this, but she looks a bit toad-like to me.  I think she 
> would have been terrifying as Umbridge and it would have been great to see her 
> and Maggie Smith go at it in that counseling session with Harry.

Potioncat:
Me too! But I don't think she looks frog-like. I didn't think they'd find anyone to fit the description. So the two top contenders in my mind were Dench and Staunton. Actually, I thought of Pam Ferras (sp) and Miriam Margoiles (sp) but they had both been cast in the movies already.

The interesting thing is that Staunton has played both plain and unattractive characters so I was surprised that the movie made her so attractive as Umbridge. It went againt the book, but it worked.

 
> Montavilla47:
> So true! :)  Plus, Snape looked really good in that film.  Again, I think it had
> to do with the color palette of the film (something I almost never notice).  
> Another favorite moment for me is when Snape appears out of the darkness
> while Harry is searching for Peter.  That whole scene is great.

Potioncat:
I didn't think Snape looked good at all. Especially in the Shrieking Shack. Foreshaddowing? But I liked the hallway scene too. And I liked the interaction between Snape and the portrait.

My son is already anticipating a trip to Universal Studios and the Harry Potter section. I keep repeating my mantra, "I'm not going into the Shrieking Shack."






From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Sat Mar  7 14:59:09 2009
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 09:59:09 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: The HP moments that always makes me smile... .
In-Reply-To: <gorofo+vd1v@eGroups.com>
References: <gorofo+vd1v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <e9506a1f9e310f9877336181cce4d185@verizon.net>

WoW! I really thought the poor guy had that horrific of a complexion! 
Lucky for him he doesn't.  :-)
Yes, I hope the director doesn't go crazy thinking he has to add in all 
these additional scenes and people, when the whole point is that DH is 
so rich in detail that it required 2 movies.
Valerie

On Mar 6, 2009, at 1:02 PM, Carol wrote:
>  And the make-up department did a great job on him, too, making him 
> look appropriately pimply. Here's what the actor, Lee Ingleby, really 
> looks like:
> http://us.imdb.com/media/rm1127845888/nm0408846
>  So he has the right build and features but the wrong complexion in 
> real life. Great casting, and he has the accent down, too.
>  Carol, who wants to see the same guy playing Stan in DH but doesn't 
> have her hopes up at this point with all the nonsensical script 
> changes




From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Sat Mar  7 15:16:32 2009
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 10:16:32 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <gosudq+rqj0@eGroups.com>
References: <gosudq+rqj0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <28e22a1406720593d28a745f846f97b3@verizon.net>

Cuaron really is an artist. The color palette in POA was so visibly 
different from the first 2 films. It helped shift the movies/books from 
kiddie movies to the darker, more sinister direction that JKR was 
heading into, and continued throughout the rest of the books.
If you've seen Children of Men, which was also directed by Cuaron, and 
I believe he won an award for(?), the palette is very grey and cool, 
which gives that feeling of apocalyptic despair. He's a genius (even 
though, yeah, he seemed more interested in visual details than 
following the story that JKR had laid down)
Valerie

On Mar 6, 2009, at 11:50 PM, montavilla47 wrote:
>  Montavilla47:
>  So true! :) Plus, Snape looked really good in that film. Again, I 
> think it had
>  to do with the color palette of the film (something I almost never 
> notice).
>  Another favorite moment for me is when Snape appears out of the 
> darkness
>  while Harry is searching for Peter. That whole scene is great.
>




From siskiou at gmail.com  Sat Mar  7 17:39:54 2009
From: siskiou at gmail.com (Susanne)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 09:39:54 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <28e22a1406720593d28a745f846f97b3@verizon.net>
References: <gosudq+rqj0@eGroups.com> <28e22a1406720593d28a745f846f97b3@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <1349913007.20090307093954@gmail.com>



Hi,

Saturday, March 7, 2009, 7:16:32 AM, valerie.flowe at verizon.net wrote:

> He's a genius (even 
> though, yeah, he seemed more interested in visual details than
> following the story that JKR had laid down)

Exactly! PoA was a feast for the eyes, but it's my
least favorite of the movies, because of what he
did with the content and characterization in the
film.

-- 
 
Best regards,
 Susanne                           mailto:siskiou at gmail.com




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  7 19:11:27 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 19:11:27 -0000
Subject: DH actors
In-Reply-To: <gos63u+d33p@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gougsv+9ie9@eGroups.com>

There is a rumor about an actor (Brendan Gleeson's son, actually) being considered for the role of Bill. It's just a rumor for now, but interesting anyway :-). He is red-haired, and he is OK, I guess, although I imagined Bill much more handsome. You know, *really-really* handsome ... :-).

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2009/3/7/rumblings-on-a-return-of-bill-weasley-for-deathly-hallows-and-more


zanooda




From lizzy1933 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  8 01:02:58 2009
From: lizzy1933 at yahoo.com (Lizzie Mae Lilly)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 01:02:58 -0000
Subject: Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <gou0r0+sfcr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gov5g2+uco5@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:

> I didn't think Snape looked good at all. Especially in the Shrieking Shack. Foreshaddowing? But I liked the hallway scene too. And I liked the interaction between Snape and the portrait.
> 

Snape looked worse at the Yule Ball in GoF!

Foreshadowing of what?  No one knew he was going to die there.  Well, except for Jo of course, but I doubt she'd give _that_ away.

Lizzie





From sartoris22 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  8 02:39:43 2009
From: sartoris22 at yahoo.com (sartoris22)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 02:39:43 -0000
Subject: DH actors
In-Reply-To: <gougsv+9ie9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <govb5f+46fl@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:
>
> There is a rumor about an actor (Brendan Gleeson's son, actually) being considered for the role of Bill. It's just a rumor for now, but interesting anyway :-). He is red-haired, and he is OK, I guess, although I imagined Bill much more handsome. You know, *really-really* handsome ... :-).
>zanooda
>


sartoris22:

In the film, In Bruges, Colin Farrell is paired with Clemence Poesy, and they have a nice chemistry. I know that Farrell is Irish and doesn't have red hair, but with a dye job and some extensions, I think he'd make a pretty cool Bill, and Poesy could just revive her role as Fleur.




From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Sun Mar  8 03:59:55 2009
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 22:59:55 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: DH actors
In-Reply-To: <govb5f+46fl@eGroups.com>
References: <govb5f+46fl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <792bdb40dff96acec66bc71162f23557@verizon.net>

Was that a bizarre film or what?! The ending...ick!
But interesting to see Brendan Gleeson in another role.

>  sartoris22:
>  In the film, In Bruges, Colin Farrell is paired with Clemence Poesy, 
> and they have a nice chemistry. I know that Farrell is Irish and 
> doesn't have red hair, but with a dye job and some extensions, I think 
> he'd make a pretty cool Bill, and Poesy could just revive her role as 
> Fleur.




From juli17 at aol.com  Sun Mar  8 19:12:14 2009
From: juli17 at aol.com (juli17 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 15:12:14 EDT
Subject: DH actors
Message-ID: <d23.3877bbdc.36e5728e@aol.com>

 

Zanooda wrote:
 
There is a rumor about an actor (Brendan Gleeson's son, actually) being  
considered for the role of Bill. It's just a rumor for now, but interesting  
anyway :-). He is red-haired, and he is OK, I guess, although I imagined Bill  much 
more handsome. You know, *really-really* handsome ... :-).

_http://www.the-http://www.the-http://wwhttp://www.thehttp://www.thttp://www.t
he-http://www.thttp://www.thttp_ 
(http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2009/3/7/rumblings-on-a-return-of-bill-weasley-for-deathly-hallows-and-more) 





Julie: 
I don't know, this picture just screams "Weasley" to me, though that  
mischievous look
in his eyes brings a twin to mind! It is a bit of a mussy-looking  photo of 
younger Gleeson,
but I think he might clean up well enough to make a dashing and  
piratical-looking Bill
Weasley, once you add his signature earring and all ;-)
 
Direct link to the photo: 
_http://www.broadway.com/Domhnall-Gleeson/broadway_news/530262_ (http://www.broadway.com/Domhnall-Gleeson/broadway_news/530262) 
 
Julie, wondering how to pronounce younger Gleeson's first  name...
**************Check all of your email inboxes from anywhere on the web.  Try 
the new Email Toolbar now! 
(http://toolbar.aol.com/mail/download.html?ncid=txtlnkusdown00000027)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  8 20:27:23 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 20:27:23 -0000
Subject: DH actors
In-Reply-To: <d23.3877bbdc.36e5728e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <gp19nb+100m9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, juli17 at ... wrote:
 
> It is a bit of a mussy-looking  photo of younger Gleeson,
> but I think he might clean up well enough to make a dashing and  
> piratical-looking Bill Weasley, once you add his signature 
> earring and all ;-)


zanooda:

I agree that Bill's looks wouldn't mean much for the movie. Movie!Fleur is not exactly beautiful herself, I must say :-).





From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Mon Mar  9 01:53:41 2009
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 21:53:41 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: DH actors
In-Reply-To: <d23.3877bbdc.36e5728e@aol.com>
References: <d23.3877bbdc.36e5728e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a1f08c69fc3bbbb7535e4ffd74464ee2@verizon.net>

> Oh yeah! He definitely looks Weasley-ish to me! With long hair, and 
> earring...plus  he'll get maimed soon enough. :-0
Have they talked about bringing back Clemence yet?


>  Julie:
>  I don't know, this picture just screams "Weasley" to me, though that
>  mischievous look
>  in his eyes brings a twin to mind! It is a bit of a mussy-looking 
> photo of
>  younger Gleeson,
>  but I think he might clean up well enough to make a dashing and
>  piratical-looking Bill
>  Weasley, once you add his signature earring and all ;-)
>





From Mhochberg at aol.com  Mon Mar  9 03:04:04 2009
From: Mhochberg at aol.com (Mhochberg at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 23:04:04 -0400
Subject: Fun at the Movies
Message-ID: <8CB6E7AD7040E82-A9C-C9F@WEBMAIL-MC18.sysops.aol.com>

 
      "montavilla47" wrote:


Snape throws out his arms to protect

the children.  It's not just that Snape is being protective and

that seems so in character (to me).  It's the colors and the 

black and the pink of Hermione's jacket that make the scene

incredible.  I also love that little whispered moment between

Hermione and Ron as Harry and Sirius move away to have 

their conversation.  



As far as characters go.  I think that I starting liking Draco more 

in the movies, and definitely liking Lucius more.  In the books, 

Draco has a bit of  appeal if you look for it, while Lucius is plain nasty. 

But both theactiors manage to make the characters a bit more interesting 

and fun.  At least, they both dress really well, and it's surprising how

that adds to the appeal.

Mary writes back:
I liked the scene with Snape protecting the kids so much, I used it as my desktop for many years. I often wondered if it was simply the lighting or that it showed a hidden aspect of Snape. 

Lucius's costuming played a big part in my interest in him.? Book|Lucius doesn't have half the appeal Movie|Lucius does. Mind you, I dont' want to meet either of them but I can at least admire Movie|Lucius's style. I am grateful to Jason Isaacs for insisting that he NOT dress like Barty Crouch. 

---Mary


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  9 04:53:06 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 04:53:06 -0000
Subject: DH actors
In-Reply-To: <a1f08c69fc3bbbb7535e4ffd74464ee2@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <gp27bi+tb5n@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, Valerie Flowe <valerie.flowe at ...> wrote:

> Have they talked about bringing back Clemence yet?


zanooda:

I didn't hear anything about it yet :-). Even about Bill it's just a rumor, which may be false :-).





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  9 16:00:05 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 16:00:05 -0000
Subject: Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <gov5g2+uco5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gp3ee5+5mtm@eGroups.com>

potioncat" wrote:
> 
> > I didn't think Snape looked good at all. Especially in the Shrieking Shack. Foreshaddowing? But I liked the hallway scene too. And I liked the interaction between Snape and the portrait.
> > 
Lizzie replied: 
> Snape looked worse at the Yule Ball in GoF!
<snip>
>
Carol responds:

Funny. the only scene where I think Rickman!Snape looks really bad (as in old, ill, ghastly, not as in evil) is the OoP scene where Umbridge is interrogating him about his background. Don't know whether it's lighting or make-up or simply being too old for the role. Anyway, yes, he looks older in each film, and, yes, he looked best in the first two, but I don't think he looks all that bad in the Shrieking Shack or at the Yule Ball. He looks fine in the PoA scene where he spreads his arms to protect HRH from the werewolf.

And I use the staff at the Yule Ball as my wallpaper at Christmastime. Wouldn't use it if I didn't like the way Snape looked in it.

BTW, he looks pretty good in the DH scene where he's examining (countercursing?) the opal necklace (my current wallpaper). Maybe they filmmakers finally realized how young he's supposed to be (not quite 37 at that point in the story)--or maybe they had to worry about lighting because Maggie Smith was also in the scene.

Carol, who hadn't thought about the Shrieking Shack as Snape's death scene till Potioncat brought it up and now will probably never feel the same way about it




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  9 16:03:06 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 16:03:06 -0000
Subject: DH actors
In-Reply-To: <gougsv+9ie9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gp3ejq+oelp@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:
>
> There is a rumor about an actor (Brendan Gleeson's son, actually) being considered for the role of Bill. It's just a rumor for now, but interesting anyway :-). He is red-haired, and he is OK, I guess, although I imagined Bill much more handsome. You know, *really-really* handsome ... :-).
> 
> http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2009/3/7/rumblings-on-a-return-of-bill-weasley-for-deathly-hallows-and-more
> 
> 
> zanooda
>
Carol responds:

Thanks for the link. It's true that he's not handsome, but he looks likable, and, more important, he looks like a Weasley. Wonder if they'll finally cast Charlie, too. Probably not.

Carol, really hoping that the wedding takes place in the Burrow, complete with the Lovegoods




From joeydebs at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  9 17:11:33 2009
From: joeydebs at yahoo.com (Debi)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 17:11:33 -0000
Subject: DH actors
In-Reply-To: <d23.3877bbdc.36e5728e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <gp3ik5+4dkg@eGroups.com>

> Julie:
> I don't know, this picture just screams "Weasley" to

joeydebs:
I agree with you there - I thought when I first saw him he'd make a good Weasley - though the first one to my mind is actually Charlie!


> Julie, wondering how to pronounce younger Gleeson's first  name...

joeydebs:
doe-nall with emphasis on the doe, it's a Scottish Gaelic name from which Donald is derived.




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  9 17:58:48 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 17:58:48 -0000
Subject: DH actors
In-Reply-To: <gp3ejq+oelp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gp3lco+ohnj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

> Thanks for the link. 


zanooda:

Don't forget it's just a rumor, no official confirmation :-). And there is another rumor, also from Leaky, about Mundungus being cast for DH. Here is the photo:

http://www.bfi.org.uk/lff/sites/bfi.org.uk.lff/files/images/20081026_05_0.jpg

This one I like, only if he is not too tall :-).




From lizzy1933 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 10 01:51:36 2009
From: lizzy1933 at yahoo.com (Lizzie Mae Lilly)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 01:51:36 -0000
Subject: Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <gp3ee5+5mtm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gp4h38+mh25@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> Funny. the only scene where I think Rickman!Snape looks really bad (as in old, ill, ghastly, not as in evil) is the OoP scene where Umbridge is interrogating him about his background. Don't know whether it's lighting or make-up or simply being too old for the role.
>

I didn't recall his appearance in that scene, but overall I thought he looked fine.  Yeah, older, but that happens to all of us!

> Anyway, yes, he looks older in each film, and, yes, he looked best in the first two, but I don't think he looks all that bad in the Shrieking Shack or at the Yule Ball.
>

Snape was unusually pale at the Ball and I thought he looked older than Alan Rickman, if you get my drift!


> He looks fine in the PoA scene where he spreads his arms to protect HRH from the werewolf.
>

I really, really like that scene, used it as wallpaper too.  

> And I use the staff at the Yule Ball as my wallpaper at Christmastime. Wouldn't use it if I didn't like the way Snape looked in it.
> 
> BTW, he looks pretty good in the DH scene where he's examining (countercursing?) the opal necklace (my current wallpaper). Maybe they filmmakers finally realized how young he's supposed to be (not quite 37 at that point in the story)--or maybe they had to worry about lighting because Maggie Smith was also in the scene.
> 
> Carol, who hadn't thought about the Shrieking Shack as Snape's death scene till Potioncat brought it up and now will probably never feel the same way about it
>

Personally I'm convinced they 'uglify' AR for Snape.  Even when he's playing an older man such as Judge Turpin in Sweeney Todd, AR looks better than Snape.  And definitely better looking in his latest movie, Bottle Shock.  'Course the facial hair probably helps!

Lizzie





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 10 18:01:51 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 18:01:51 -0000
Subject: Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <gp4h38+mh25@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gp69uf+b1me@eGroups.com>

Lizzie wrote: 
> Personally I'm convinced they 'uglify' AR for Snape.  Even when he's playing an older man such as Judge Turpin in Sweeney Todd, AR looks better than Snape.  And definitely better looking in his latest movie, Bottle Shock.  'Course the facial hair probably helps!

Carol responds:
"Uglify"? How? They give him a black wig and dark contact lenses, and they cover his naturally ruddy complexion with what looks like (but can't be!) lead-based make-up to make it pale, but that's his own nose. And sometimes, even in OoP, he looks just fine (but, of course, older than snape should be):

http://www.whysnape.net/images/hp5/hp5_snape04.jpg

When he looks ugly, IMO it's either the lighting (I still think he looks ghastly in the scene where Umbridge is asking him whether he applies every year for the DADA position--

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/harrypotter/images/3/3d/Umbridge_inspecting_Snape.jpg
or
http://tinyurl.com/bn8l3g

not to be confused with the scene near the end where he tells her that she's used up all the Veritaserum) or his facial expression, for example, when he's yelling at Harry and Ron because of the flying car in COS:

http://spetsnaz.fateback.com/slytherin/pictures/images/severus_snape-cos-03.jpg
or
http://tinyurl.com/cwotop

Carol, who thinks that if the moviemakers wanted to "uglify" Snape, they'd have followed Mary Grandpre's lead and given him a devilish goatee and a prosthetic hooked nose
    




From HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com  Tue Mar 10 18:15:47 2009
From: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 10 Mar 2009 18:15:47 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-Movie 
Message-ID: <1236708947.123.79334.w3@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-Movie group:

POLL ON LIST RULES

The following is an ADVISORY ONLY poll for the members of HPfGU-Movie, from the List Elves. It will be open for a week, closing on March 17, 2009.

Note:  If you have never looked through the posting guidelines at HPfGU or would like to refresh your memory about them, you may see them here:  http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/PostingRules25Mar07.html

THE QUESTION:  
When it comes to the posting and formatting rules for the HPfGU-Movie list, I prefer:
 

  o that posts to Movie be allowed to be more lax than those made at Main and OTC re: top-posting, signing/attributing and snipping 
  o that Movie members be held to the same standards & expectations as expressed in the posting guidelines for the Main list re: top-posting, signing/attributing and snipping 


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Movie/surveys?id=12883842 

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 






From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Tue Mar 10 18:21:08 2009
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 18:21:08 -0000
Subject: Announcing a poll on list guidelines
Message-ID: <gp6b2k+qqu6@eGroups.com>

Hello, HPfGU-Movie fans!

The HPfGU list elves have been having some discussion about the fact that we have a set of posting & formatting guidelines in place for the Main HPfGU group & for the Off-Topic Chatter group that we have always been lax about "enforcing" at the Movie group.  The discussion we've been having pertains to whether it would be a better thing to have consistent rules & expecations for all of our sister lists (e.g., not top-posting, signing posts, snipping out extraneous material) or to leave things as they are.  Please know that the elves who are promoting the institution of the same rules at Movie are less interested in "policing" the membership and being super strict than they are in consistency and readability/enjoyability of posts.

Keeping in mind that the poll is only ADVISORY in nature, we have set up a poll so that any of you with a preference on this matter can express your opinion. 

http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Movie/surveys?id=12883842

We'd like to make a decision in about a week, so we hope you'll vote in the poll soon.  If you have questions or comments to make in addition to taking the poll, please do so by either writing to us at one of the owner addresses [HPFGU-Movie-owner@ yahoogroups.com or HPFGU-owner@ yahoogroups.com, minus the space in there] or by posting to our Feedback list:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Feedback/ , and *not* by posting about it to Movie.

Thank you!
Shorty Elf for the HPfGU List Elves





From susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net  Tue Mar 10 18:31:51 2009
From: susiequsie23 at sbcglobal.net (cubfanbudwoman)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 18:31:51 -0000
Subject: Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <gp69uf+b1me@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gp6bmn+30cf@eGroups.com>

Lizzie wrote: 
> > Personally I'm convinced they 'uglify' AR for Snape.  Even when 
> > he's playing an older man such as Judge Turpin in Sweeney Todd, 
> > AR looks better than Snape.  And definitely better looking in his 
> > latest movie, Bottle Shock.  'Course the facial hair probably 
> > helps!
 
Carol responds:
> "Uglify"? How? They give him a black wig and dark contact lenses, 
> and they cover his naturally ruddy complexion with what looks like 
> (but can't be!) lead-based make-up to make it pale, but that's his 
> own nose. And sometimes, even in OoP, he looks just fine (but, of 
> course, older than snape should be):

SSSusan:
LOL.  Lizzie, I thought in Bottle Shock he looked a little dopey, although that was more about the '70s fashions than about AR. :)  

I'm actually with Carol on this.  I just watched him in Perfume: The Story of a Murderer, and I find it MUCH harder to take him when he's got a wig such as that worn by Judge Turpin in Sweeney or Richis in Perfume than when he's wearing his Snape wig.  

He *is* too old for the character, but I don't think he's been uglified.  In fact, he's allowed to have a *non-greasy* black wig and to look a little pasty, rather than yellow & oily... and to have regular teeth, rather than yellowing teeth.  (Not that AR's teeth are particularly attractive -- especially the bottom ones -- but that's pure AR, not uglifying him for the Snape role.)


Carol:
> When he looks ugly, IMO it's either the lighting (I still think he 
> looks ghastly in the scene where Umbridge is asking him whether he 
> applies every year for the DADA position--

SSSusan: 
The one time I thought he looked bad in the HP movies was in CoS, when his face looks puffy.  (The scene when Harry & Ron are getting in trouble for the crashing the Flying Ford Anglia into the Whomping Willow.)  Then I read that he had a terrible sinus infection when he filmed that scene, which explained the puffiness a bit.  

Siriusly Snapey Susan






From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 10 19:30:48 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 19:30:48 -0000
Subject: Rickman!Snape
In-Reply-To: <gp69uf+b1me@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gp6f58+bps1@eGroups.com>

Carol earlier:
><snip> 
> 
> (I still think he looks ghastly in the scene where Umbridge is asking him whether he applies every year for the DADA position--
> 
> http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/harrypotter/images/3/3d/Umbridge_inspecting_Snape.jpg
> or
> http://tinyurl.com/bn8l3g

Carol again:
Oops.
That Tinyurl took you to the wrong page.

Try this one:

http://tinyurl.com/bxdbgv

Carol earlier: 
> <snip> or his facial expression, for example, when he's yelling at Harry and Ron because of the flying car in COS:
 http://spetsnaz.fateback.com/slytherin/pictures/images/severus_snape-cos-03.jpg
> or
> http://tinyurl.com/cwotop

Carol again:

Messed up that one up completely! Try this URL:

http://moviesmedia.ign.com/harrypotter/image/harry_ron_snapesoffice.jpg

It's not the shot I wanted, which is full-faced rather than profile and somehow jowly, but it's from the same scene.

Carol, hoping that the links work this time







From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 10 20:11:28 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 20:11:28 -0000
Subject: Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <gp6bmn+30cf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gp6hhg+u4js@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "cubfanbudwoman" <susiequsie23 at ...> wrote:
>
> Lizzie wrote: 
> > > Personally I'm convinced they 'uglify' AR for Snape.  Even when 
> > > he's playing an older man such as Judge Turpin in Sweeney Todd, 
> > > AR looks better than Snape.  And definitely better looking in his 
> > > latest movie, Bottle Shock.  'Course the facial hair probably 
> > > helps!
>  
> Carol responds:
> > "Uglify"? How? They give him a black wig and dark contact lenses, 
> > and they cover his naturally ruddy complexion with what looks like 
> > (but can't be!) lead-based make-up to make it pale, but that's his 
> > own nose. And sometimes, even in OoP, he looks just fine (but, of 
> > course, older than snape should be):
> 
> SSSusan:
> LOL.  Lizzie, I thought in Bottle Shock he looked a little dopey, although that was more about the '70s fashions than about AR. :)  
> 
> I'm actually with Carol on this.  I just watched him in Perfume: The Story of a Murderer, and I find it MUCH harder to take him when he's got a wig such as that worn by Judge Turpin in Sweeney or Richis in Perfume than when he's wearing his Snape wig.  
> 
> He *is* too old for the character, but I don't think he's been uglified.  In fact, he's allowed to have a *non-greasy* black wig and to look a little pasty, rather than yellow & oily... and to have regular teeth, rather than yellowing teeth.  (Not that AR's teeth are particularly attractive -- especially the bottom ones -- but that's pure AR, not uglifying him for the Snape role.)
> 
> 
> Carol:
> > When he looks ugly, IMO it's either the lighting (I still think he 
> > looks ghastly in the scene where Umbridge is asking him whether he 
> > applies every year for the DADA position--
> 
> SSSusan: 
> The one time I thought he looked bad in the HP movies was in CoS, when his face looks puffy.  (The scene when Harry & Ron are getting in trouble for the crashing the Flying Ford Anglia into the Whomping Willow.)  Then I read that he had a terrible sinus infection when he filmed that scene, which explained the puffiness a bit.  
> 
> Siriusly Snapey Susan
>
Carol responds:

That's the shot I had in mind. I've seen it online a zillion times, but, of course, when I'm looking for it I can't find it. I't's not in my own collection of Snape photos because I hate it. I checked Google images (not all the images because there are too many) using various search terms. I also tried Leaky, but the CoS shots are in a random sequence and the thumbnails are so small that they hurt my eyes, and Mugglenet, but for some reason, that site takes forever to load on my computer. If anyone has a link to that "puffy shot" (where R!S also looks exceptionally angry) please let me know.

I agree that he looks really good (despite being too old for the part) in most of the CoS and SS/PS shots. Oddly, most of the Snape fansites have all sorts of stills from both those films but not so many from PoA, GoF, and OoP. Surely, his role wasn't reduced that much in the later films. Maybe the fans just gave up because loading all those shots was too much work.

Carol, wishing she had a faster Internet connection and bigger monitor




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Wed Mar 11 12:41:09 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:41:09 -0000
Subject: Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <gp6bmn+30cf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gp8bh5+ihd2@eGroups.com>


> SSSusan
> I'm actually with Carol on this.  I just watched him in Perfume: The Story of a Murderer, and I find it MUCH harder to take him when he's got a wig such as that worn by Judge Turpin in Sweeney or Richis in Perfume than when he's wearing his Snape wig.

Potioncat:
What did you think of the movie? I haven't worked up the courage to watch it. It took me forever to get the nerve to watch Sweeny Todd.

Potioncat:
It just seems to me that Snape looks different in some movies than others. He looks very different after CoS. I agree somewhat with Lizzy about "uglifying"--in that it isn't Rickman who has changed, but the make-up. He looked dopey in Bottleshock, and pretty good in Snowcake. He ages like a Southern gentleman should in "Something the Lord made."  But post-Cos-Snape looks sickly, to my mind. Now, maybe that's the look they wanted to fit their interpretation of the books.  
> 
 
> Carol:
> > When he looks ugly, IMO it's either the lighting (I still think he 
> > looks ghastly in the scene where Umbridge is asking him whether he 
> > applies every year for the DADA position--

Potioncat:
I agree, but they chose the lighting and the make-up for a reason. I don't get it.
> 
> SSSusan: 
> The one time I thought he looked bad in the HP movies was in CoS, when his face looks puffy.  (The scene when Harry & Ron are getting in trouble for the crashing the Flying Ford Anglia into the Whomping Willow.)  Then I read that he had a terrible sinus infection when he filmed that scene, which explained the puffiness a bit.  

Potioncat:
I thought he looked sick. (not the same as sickly) I thought perhaps it was the first scene that was filmed after he and Branaugh had been out all night drinking with Harris. In one interview Rickman talks about being out to the wee hours with them and that Harris shows up the next morning just fine.




From eggplant107 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 12 05:55:17 2009
From: eggplant107 at hotmail.com (eggplant107)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 05:55:17 -0000
Subject: Fun at the Movies.
In-Reply-To: <gp6hhg+u4js@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gpa845+4fi0@eGroups.com>

When "Die Hard" came out in 1988 nobody had heard of Alan Rickman and some critic who's name I've forgotten said he played the part of super villain Hans Gruber as if he were a homicidal male model. I'm not sure if he was being complementary or not but back then I can sort of see him modeling $10,000 designer Italian suites.

 Eggplant





From eggplant107 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 12 06:21:50 2009
From: eggplant107 at hotmail.com (eggplant107)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 06:21:50 -0000
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Dumbledore=92s_funeral?=
Message-ID: <gpa9lu+oike@eGroups.com>

I'm not religious it's not in the book and I hate bagpipes, nevertheless I think it would be cool if a bagpiper played "Amazing Grace" at Dumbledore's funeral. 

 Eggplant





From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 12 06:56:05 2009
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 06:56:05 -0000
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_Dumbledore=92s_funeral?=
In-Reply-To: <gpa9lu+oike@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gpabm5+soqp@eGroups.com>

> Eggplant:
> I'm not religious it's not in the book and I hate bagpipes, nevertheless I think it would be cool if a bagpiper played "Amazing Grace" at Dumbledore's funeral. 


Kemper now:
I thought the funeral wasn't going to be in the movie?  Did they change that?
But yeah, that would be cool.  I like that it suggests spirituality subtly...  or maybe that would collapse the suspension of disbelief (assuming it's amazing). 

Kemper




From md at exit-reality.com  Thu Mar 12 16:59:07 2009
From: md at exit-reality.com (Nightbreed)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:59:07 -0400
Subject: =?us-ascii?Q?RE:_=5BHPFGU-Movie=5D_Re:_Dumbledore's_funeral?=
In-Reply-To: <gpabm5+soqp@eGroups.com>
References: <gpa9lu+oike@eGroups.com> <gpabm5+soqp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000301c9a333$db8d7430$92a85c90$@com>

Dan talked about all the extras in the funeral scene in EW a couple months
ago. It seems large chunks of the final battle and the entire funeral where
not in the early screening. They probably wanted to see if they could drop
the extra time and get away with it, then got a resounding "no" and put them
in - or the effects just weren't done yet.

 

As for Bagpipes, maybe, Amazing Grace. No. Need to keep a clean separation
of Church and Potter.

 

md

 

From: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of kempermentor
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 2:56 AM
To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Dumbledore's funeral

 

> Eggplant:
> I'm not religious it's not in the book and I hate bagpipes, nevertheless I
think it would be cool if a bagpiper played "Amazing Grace" at Dumbledore's
funeral. 

Kemper now:
I thought the funeral wasn't going to be in the movie? Did they change that?
But yeah, that would be cool. I like that it suggests spirituality subtly...
or maybe that would collapse the suspension of disbelief (assuming it's
amazing). 

Kemper





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From captainjackswomen at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 12 19:03:46 2009
From: captainjackswomen at yahoo.com (Lady of Imladris)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:03:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Fun at the Movies.
In-Reply-To: <gpa845+4fi0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <32326.4917.qm@web59807.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

wasn't that the point though Alan Rickman being homicidal ? that's one of my favorite roles
of Alan. 

Love,
Red

--- On Wed, 3/11/09, eggplant107 <eggplant107 at hotmail.com> wrote:
From: eggplant107 <eggplant107 at hotmail.com>
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Fun at the Movies.
To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, March 11, 2009, 10:55 PM

When "Die Hard" came out in 1988 nobody had heard of Alan Rickman and
some critic who's name I've forgotten said he played the part of super
villain Hans Gruber as if he were a homicidal male model. I'm not sure if he
was being complementary or not but back then I can sort of see him modeling
$10,000 designer Italian suites.

 Eggplant




------------------------------------


Remember to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying!

Any questions or problems - contact the List Elves at
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From eggplant107 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 12 19:44:58 2009
From: eggplant107 at hotmail.com (eggplant107)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:44:58 -0000
Subject: Dumbledore's funeral
In-Reply-To: <000301c9a333$db8d7430$92a85c90$@com>
Message-ID: <gpbonq+1f0t@eGroups.com>

> "Nightbreed" <md at ...> wrote:

> As for Bagpipes, maybe, Amazing Grace. No.
> Need to keep a clean separation of Church and Potter.

Yea you're probably right, although I seem to recall that they
used it (no words just the tune) in one of the Star Trek movies
and it worked out great. Amazing Grace is the only tune that
Bagpipes can play that doesn't make you want to stick your
fingers in your ears. It's become sort of traditional for policeman's funerals, no words just bagpipes.   

 Eggplant 









From lizzy1933 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 12 21:09:17 2009
From: lizzy1933 at yahoo.com (Lizzie Mae Lilly)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:09:17 -0000
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_Dumbledore=92s_funeral?=
In-Reply-To: <gpa9lu+oike@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gpbtlt+p5f3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "eggplant107" <eggplant107 at ...> wrote:
>
> I'm not religious it's not in the book and I hate bagpipes, nevertheless I think it would be cool if a bagpiper played "Amazing Grace" at Dumbledore's funeral. 
> 
>  Eggplant
>

To tell the truth I love the bagpipe version of "Amazing Grace", but it's such a cliche.  As I recall it was played when Spock 'died' in one of the Star Trek movies.

No, no funeral in the HBP movie unless they added it after last fall's screening.

Lizzie









From md at exit-reality.com  Thu Mar 12 21:21:19 2009
From: md at exit-reality.com (Nightbreed)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:21:19 -0400
Subject: =?us-ascii?Q?RE:_=5BHPFGU-Movie=5D_Re:_Dumbledore's_funeral?=
In-Reply-To: <gpbtlt+p5f3@eGroups.com>
References: <gpa9lu+oike@eGroups.com> <gpbtlt+p5f3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001401c9a358$7cea4ff0$76beefd0$@com>

One must presume if Radcliff mentioned shooting the scene, that it'll be
there - it's too big a scene to shoot and snip.

 

md

 


To tell the truth I love the bagpipe version of "Amazing Grace", but it's
such a cliche. As I recall it was played when Spock 'died' in one of the
Star Trek movies.

No, no funeral in the HBP movie unless they added it after last fall's
screening.

Lizzie





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From charober at sympatico.ca  Thu Mar 12 23:26:17 2009
From: charober at sympatico.ca (charober at sympatico.ca)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 23:26:17 +0000
Subject: =?Windows-1252?Q?RE:_[HPFGU?= =?Windows-1252?Q?-Movie]_Du?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?mbledore=92s?= =?Windows-1252?Q?_funeral?=
In-Reply-To: <gpa9lu+oike@eGroups.com>
References: <gpa9lu+oike@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <SNT101-W706EC24F52A62DCB9A4A38B39F0@phx.gbl>


But then the question that comes to my mind is: would the wizarding world be familiar with that tune?  My guess would be no, though it probably would be cool if they played that tune in the funeral scene, even if it was just background music.

 

As for the other "Church vs. Potter" thread, I think that tune would be fine in that scene.  I don't see any reason for avoiding the "church."  

 

Charlotte
 


To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
From: eggplant107 at hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 06:21:50 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Dumbledore?s funeral





I'm not religious it's not in the book and I hate bagpipes, nevertheless I think it would be cool if a bagpiper played "Amazing Grace" at Dumbledore's funeral. 

Eggplant










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From sartoris22 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 12 23:45:57 2009
From: sartoris22 at yahoo.com (sartoris22)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 23:45:57 -0000
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_Dumbledore=92s_funeral?=
In-Reply-To: <gpbtlt+p5f3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gpc6rl+hgoa@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Lizzie Mae Lilly" <lizzy1933 at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "eggplant107" <eggplant107@> wrote:
> >
> > I'm not religious it's not in the book and I hate bagpipes, nevertheless I think it would be cool if a bagpiper played "Amazing Grace" at Dumbledore's funeral. 
> > 
> >  sartoris22:

I agree with Charlotte--Amazing Grace, bagpipes or not, would violate the unstated rules of the Hary Potter universe. The Muggle and Wizard worlds are quite separate. Consider the music they danced to at the Yule Ball. Was any of it music that existd in the Muggle world? Besides, the whole point to Wiards is that they do things differently from Muggles. Funnily enough, there is no mention of any Muggle art or artist in either the books or movies, right? Oh yes, Hermione mentions a Cinderella in Deathly Hallows when Ron is explaining Beedle the Bard.






From willsonkmom at msn.com  Fri Mar 13 02:15:51 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 02:15:51 -0000
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_Dumbledore=92s_funeral?=
In-Reply-To: <gpc6rl+hgoa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gpcfkn+e8dv@eGroups.com>

 
> > >  sartoris22:
> 
> I agree with Charlotte--Amazing Grace, bagpipes or not, would violate the unstated rules of the Hary Potter universe. The Muggle and Wizard worlds are quite separate. Consider the music they danced to at the Yule Ball. Was any of it music that existd in the Muggle world? Besides, the whole point to Wiards is that they do things differently from Muggles. Funnily enough, there is no mention of any Muggle art or artist in either the books or movies, right? Oh yes, Hermione mentions a Cinderella in Deathly Hallows when Ron is explaining Beedle the Bard.


Potioncat:
But there is mention of Christmas carols, and of Sirius singing "God rest ye, merry hippogriffs." (though I don't remember where the comma was.) And the Fat Friar had some connection to a Muggle Christian organization.(Unless there was a strictly wizarding order.) So there is some mixing of cultures. Having said that, I think "Amazing Grace" would sound out of place.





From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 13 05:07:42 2009
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kempermentor)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 05:07:42 -0000
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_Dumbledore=92s_funeral?=
In-Reply-To: <SNT101-W706EC24F52A62DCB9A4A38B39F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <gpcpmu+1271@eGroups.com>

> Charlote:
> But then the question that comes to my mind is: would the wizarding world be familiar with that tune?  My guess would be no, though it probably would be cool if they played that tune in the funeral scene, even if it was just background music.
> As for the other "Church vs. Potter" thread, I think that tune would be fine in that scene.  I don't see any reason for avoiding the "church."  


Kemper now:
I think the tune would be familiar in the US wizarding schools.

How popular is the tune within the UK christian Muggle community?

Kemper




From joeydebs at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 13 17:14:34 2009
From: joeydebs at yahoo.com (Debi)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 17:14:34 -0000
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_Dumbledore=92s_funeral?=
In-Reply-To: <gpcpmu+1271@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gpe49q+6knu@eGroups.com>

<snip>
> Kemper:
> How popular is the tune within the UK christian Muggle community?

Debi:
Very, but I think it is just generally very popular amongst even the non-religious especially in relation to funerals etc.




From lizzy1933 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 13 19:34:45 2009
From: lizzy1933 at yahoo.com (Lizzie Mae Lilly)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 19:34:45 -0000
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_Dumbledore=92s_funeral?=
In-Reply-To: <gpe49q+6knu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gpecgl+k4tu@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Debi" <joeydebs at ...> wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > Kemper:
> > How popular is the tune within the UK christian Muggle community?
> 
> Debi:
> Very, but I think it is just generally very popular amongst even the non-religious especially in relation to funerals etc.
>

Amazing Grace was written by an English clergyman, John Newton, who participated in the slave trade before converting to Christianity.  There was a recent movie by the same time.

Lizzie





From roulston112131 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 13 21:34:10 2009
From: roulston112131 at yahoo.com (Ruth Roulston)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:34:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dumbledores funeral
Message-ID: <275563.38927.qm@web52208.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Ruth:
As Hagrid carries Dumbledore's draped body to the bier, a bagpipe playing Amazing Grace in the background would bring tears even to the eyes of Dolores Umbridge.


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From roulston112131 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 13 21:53:16 2009
From: roulston112131 at yahoo.com (Ruth Roulston)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:53:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dumbledores funeral
Message-ID: <681544.42345.qm@web52206.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

?
Ruth:
There are two melodies of Amazing Grace, the first written in 1762 by Thomas A. Arne.? The second and most familiar is credited as an Early American melody.? The original words are used?with both tunes, written in 1779 by John Newton.
?
And how can we separate the church from the Potterverse when the students celebrate Halloween, Easter and Christmas?


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From charober at sympatico.ca  Sat Mar 14 17:43:47 2009
From: charober at sympatico.ca (charober at sympatico.ca)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:43:47 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Dumbledores funeral
In-Reply-To: <681544.42345.qm@web52206.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <681544.42345.qm@web52206.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SNT101-W23013C328BD9C01DAA8DDEB39D0@phx.gbl>


Oh, of course!  The "religious" holidays... You said it bang on there, Ruth!  Even if the wizarding world may not completely acknowledge the reasons behind the statutory holidays (at least in anything we ever read in the books or saw live at Hogwarts), they're still acknowledging the Christian church by celebrating Christmas and Easter!  ;)

 

Charlotte
 


To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
From: roulston112131 at yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:53:16 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Dumbledores funeral





 
Ruth:
There are two melodies of Amazing Grace, the first written in 1762 by Thomas A. Arne.  The second and most familiar is credited as an Early American melody.  The original words are used with both tunes, written in 1779 by John Newton.
 
And how can we separate the church from the Potterverse when the students celebrate Halloween, Easter and Christmas?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From wildirishrose at fiber.net  Sat Mar 14 23:54:41 2009
From: wildirishrose at fiber.net (wildirishrose01us)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 23:54:41 -0000
Subject: DH actors
In-Reply-To: <govb5f+46fl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gphg41+rcu9@eGroups.com>

I know all the Weasley kids have red hair, but I've always had this picture in my mind of Bill having black hair.  He would be very handsome, a no-nonsense manner, and the most responsible of the 7 kids.

Marianne 

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "sartoris22" <sartoris22 at ...> wrote:



> --- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2@> wrote:
> >
> > There is a rumor about an actor (Brendan Gleeson's son, actually) being considered for the role of Bill. It's just a rumor for now, but interesting anyway :-). He is red-haired, and he is OK, I guess, although I imagined Bill much more handsome. You know, *really-really* handsome ... :-).
> >zanooda
> >
> 
> 
> sartoris22:
> 
> In the film, In Bruges, Colin Farrell is paired with Clemence Poesy, and they have a nice chemistry. I know that Farrell is Irish and doesn't have red hair, but with a dye job and some extensions, I think he'd make a pretty cool Bill, and Poesy could just revive her role as Fleur.
>





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 15 17:04:20 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 17:04:20 -0000
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_Dumbledore=92s_funeral?=
In-Reply-To: <gpc6rl+hgoa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gpjcek+rojd@eGroups.com>

sartoris22 wrote:
 
> I agree with Charlotte--Amazing Grace, bagpipes or not, would violate the unstated rules of the Hary Potter universe. The Muggle and Wizard worlds are quite separate. Consider the music they danced to at the Yule Ball. Was any of it music that existd in the Muggle world? Besides, the whole point to Wiards is that they do things differently from Muggles. Funnily enough, there is no mention of any Muggle art or artist in either the books or movies, right? Oh yes, Hermione mentions a Cinderella in Deathly Hallows when Ron is explaining Beedle the Bard.
>
Carol responds:
OTOH, they celebrate Christmas, they have the concept of saints (St. Mungo's), and Sirius Black parodies "God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen" with "God Rest Ye, Merry Hippogriffs" (either JKR or her copyeditor doesn't know where the comma goes). The WW also had monks and friars at some point--and they still have godfathers. I think that the WW and the Muggle world shared the same traditions until the Statute of Secrecy was passed in 1692 (or 1687, if we accept the date given in DH--where is the consistency editor when you need her?).

Carol, who nevertheless thinks that we'd be better off with an eerie, mournful, and unintelligible chorus from the merpeople than with bagpipes playing anything in the DD funeral scene







From md at exit-reality.com  Sun Mar 15 17:45:46 2009
From: md at exit-reality.com (Nightbreed)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 13:45:46 -0400
Subject: =?US-ASCII?Q?RE:_=5BHPFGU-Movie=5D_Re:_Dumbledore's_funeral?=
In-Reply-To: <gpjcek+rojd@eGroups.com>
References: <gpc6rl+hgoa@eGroups.com> <gpjcek+rojd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000901c9a595$ded08f10$9c71ad30$@com>

I figure, if they include the Phoenix Lament when he dies they might do an
orchestration of that over the funeral scene to tie it together
thematically.

 

md

 

From: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Carol
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:04 PM
To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Dumbledore's funeral



Carol, who nevertheless thinks that we'd be better off with an eerie,
mournful, and unintelligible chorus from the merpeople than with bagpipes
playing anything in the DD funeral scene





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Mon Mar 16 05:00:52 2009
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 01:00:52 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: DH actors
In-Reply-To: <gp3lco+ohnj@eGroups.com>
References: <gp3lco+ohnj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a12a35909075d65ecedfa780dc1984c7@verizon.net>

I can see that, with him having long, scraggly hair and acting all  
whacko like Mundungus does.

On Mar 9, 2009, at 1:58 PM, zanooda2 wrote:

>  Don't forget it's just a rumor, no official confirmation :-). And  
> there is another rumor, also from Leaky, about Mundungus being cast  
> for DH. Here is the photo:
>
> http://www.bfi.org.uk/lff/sites/bfi.org.uk.lff/files/images/ 
> 20081026_05_0.jpg




From valerie.flowe at verizon.net  Mon Mar 16 05:08:42 2009
From: valerie.flowe at verizon.net (Valerie Flowe)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 01:08:42 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: Fun at the Movies
In-Reply-To: <gp69uf+b1me@eGroups.com>
References: <gp69uf+b1me@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <77fa4b166dd7f40ee45d8035b0141dfb@verizon.net>

I think he looked very ill in that one scene in COS when he's yelling  
at Harry/Ron.  I remember being worried about him when I saw that  
scene. I think he's looked much better since.

On Mar 10, 2009, at 2:01 PM, Carol wrote:
<snip> not to be confused with the scene near the end where he tells  
her that she's used up all the Veritaserum) or his facial expression,  
for example, when he's yelling at Harry and Ron because of the flying  
car in COS:
>
> http://spetsnaz.fateback.com/slytherin/pictures/images/severus_snape- 
> cos-03.jpg
>  or
> http://tinyurl.com/cwotop




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Mon Mar 16 18:47:58 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:47:58 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSION
Message-ID: <gpm6su+766s@eGroups.com>



Early in the movie Harry learns that a prisoner has escaped Azkaban. Over most of the movie, he learns more and more about Sirius Black till he is ready to take on the man who betrayed his parents. When he does get his chance, he learns that it was Pettigrew who betrayed his family. He and Hermione use a Time Turner to save Sirius and Buckbeak. The movie ends with Harry flying triumphantly into the sky on his new broom.

Parts of PoA have been discussed lately. So I may be repeating some ideas here. Not sure if we discussed them here or somewhere else. Feel free to add questions of your own!

1. We have a new director for movie 3. Did you know of his work before? How do you think he did on this movie? Do you think he read any of the HP books? 

2. John Williams wrote this music, as he did for the 1st two. What did you think of it? Any favorite tunes from this movie?

3. What do you think of PoA as a stand-alone movie?

4. The opening scene, with the somber music and Warner's symbol in a worn gray seemed to set a dark tone to this movie. What did you think of the sudden switch to the scene of Harry practicing magic and Vernon trying to catch him? What did you think of the movie's mix of darkness and humor?

5. Practicing magic over the summer? How many un-canonical scenes can you identify in this movie?  That is, a scene that contradicts canon, as opposed to noncanonical scenes that are additions? Count them too, if you like. Or just comment on the more glaring ones. Did you like the changes, or not?

6. We've discussed the Aunt Marge scene recently. Could anyone tell what Dudley was watching on the TV (or is that telly?) with such great interest? Does anyone know if it is a real show, or a made-up one?

7. What about the changes to familiar characters like Tom of the Leaky Cauldron, or Professor Flitwick or the Fat Lady? Or the changes to costumes--even Arthur looked like a Muggle! Did the changes work?
 
8. Lupin's description of Lily created a lot of comment at main. Now that we've read all the books, was movie!Lupin correct? Do you think Snape would agree with Lupin's opinion of Lily?

9. Harry tells Lupin he's used a memory of his parents talking to him, and says something like, "I don't even know if it's real." Does that remind you of anything?

10. For the first time I heard Hermione say something along the line of "I heard Snape telling DD that it would take a powerful wizard to conjure that Patronus." Where was Snape supposed to be that he saw the Patronus? Did anyone catch sight of him in the "rewinding of time" when Hermione and Harry used the TT to go back.

11. We get an abbreviated version of the Marauders, and only a touch on the Snape/Marauder animosity during this movie. How do you think that will play out in later movies?

12. Do you think the newer movies will have to explain the Patronus again? Will it be clear that a Patronus is an animal shape?
 
13. Buckbeak attacks Lupin in the movie.  Do you think the movie will repeat that action in HBP when he should attack Snape?

14. There were lots of clocks in this movie, Lupin's solar system, his floating time candles in the shape of spines, the pendulum, the clock and its gears in a tower. Do you think Cuaron thought the time turning sequence was the crux of the movie?

15. There are lots of special effects in this movie--Aunt Marge, Dementors, and the werewolf, to name a few. Did you like the way they were done? Were the Dementors and their effect what you expected? 

16. Any scenes in particular that you'd like to discuss? Was anything missing from the movie? Did the plot make sense? Was anything better in the movie than the book?

17. And the first question that really just popped into my head--Did anyone ever say who the manufacturers of the map were? Did we ever get the nicknames?

18. Would anyone like to volunteer for a GoF discussion? 

Potioncat







From sartoris22 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 16 22:01:33 2009
From: sartoris22 at yahoo.com (sartoris22)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:01:33 -0000
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_Dumbledore=92s_funeral?=
In-Reply-To: <gpjcek+rojd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gpmi7t+k0qu@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> sartoris22 wrote:
>  
> > I agree with Charlotte--Amazing Grace, bagpipes or not, would violate the unstated rules of the Hary Potter universe. 
> >
> Carol responds:
> OTOH, they celebrate Christmas, they have the concept of saints (St. Mungo's), and Sirius Black parodies "God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen" with "God Rest Ye, Merry Hippogriffs" (either JKR or her copyeditor doesn't know where the comma goes). The WW also had monks and friars at some point--and they still have godfathers. I think that the WW and the Muggle world shared the same traditions until the Statute of Secrecy was passed in 1692 (or 1687, if we accept the date given in DH--where is the consistency editor when you need her?).
> 
sartoris22:

Tradiions are a funny thing. How do we know that Muggles didn't get those traditions from wizards then claimed them as their own? Because there is no overt mention of Christianity, perhaps Christmas and saints mean something very different in the wizard world. While lingistically, Christmas might hold the greater problem, whose to say that, for wizards, (and I'm not trying blaspheme) Christ isn't considered a wizard of sorts. Perhaps wizardry is a religion of sorts. After all,  Harry is a Christ-figure, including going to a knowing death to sacrifice himself for the good of humanity. 
>





From vand195550 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 17 02:04:01 2009
From: vand195550 at yahoo.com (Stephen Vandecasteele)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:04:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] PoA MOVIE DISCUSION
Message-ID: <744847.32869.qm@web59414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>





--- On Mon, 3/16/09, potioncat <willsonkmom at msn.com> wrote:

 
> 18. Would anyone like to volunteer for a GoF discussion? 
> 
> 
> 
> Potioncat

The GOF was a rather interesting film in my opinion insofar as it opened the door for the return of the dark lord. HP learned a valuable but terrible lesson here which was people do die as matter of reality and who could be next.

Steve 


      




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 17 03:54:08 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 03:54:08 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION
In-Reply-To: <gpm6su+766s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gpn6t0+5trb@eGroups.com>

potioncat wrote:
<snip> 
> 1. We have a new director for movie 3. Did you know of his work before? How do you think he did on this movie? Do you think he read any of the HP books? 

Carol responds:
I've never seen anything else by Cuaron and am not particularly interested in doing so. A few things are well done (the Dementor opening the train compartment, Harry flying on Buckbeak, Hermione reaching for Ron's hand and the two pulling away from each other in embarrassment), but he got a lot of things wrong, and one glitch is particularly annoying: We start to see Harry's Dementor Boggart in the DADA lesson, but two scenes or so later, Lupin tells Harry that he stopped him from having his turn because he thought it would turn into Lord Voldemort. The nonbook-reading audience must have thought, "Huh?") I don't know whether he read the book or not, but he certainly allowed, encouraged, or required omissions of crucial elements in the script (Snape brewing the Wolfbane potion, for example) that should not have been left out. (Pettigrew asking if Lupin has had his potion is one of those annoying moments.) And having Harry cry when he hears about Sirius Black's supposed betrayal (which may or may not be in the script--I don't know how much leeway a director has) is completely out of character. And don't get me started on the Muggle casual clothes (as opposed to official school uniforms under the robes, which have always been there), toy trains, shrunken heads, or Tom the Barman. And what, exactly, was Snape doing while Harry was running after Sirius? Still protecting Ron and Hermione when Harry was in danger? It makes no sense.

> 
> 2. John Williams wrote this music, as he did for the 1st two. What did you think of it? Any favorite tunes from this movie?

Carol:
His music is really catchy and memorable, especially "Double, double, toil, and trouble." Yes, it's uncanonical, and we have the altered Flitwick as director, but I still like it as opening banquet entertainment. (Wonder how Book!Snape would have liked the Shakespearean potion references?) I also like the Buckbeak theme, or whatever it's called (the music that's played as Harry rides Buckbeak over the lake.)
> 
> 3. What do you think of PoA as a stand-alone movie?

I suppose that it stands alone better than some of the others. It feels as if all the plot ends have been resolved (moving the Firebolt to the end of the film actually worked) and you forget that the servant will rejoin his master. It does weave several plots together (the "Grim"/Sirius Black; Buckbeak; the Time Turner) rather neatly. It's just that, knowing the book, I see gaping holes in the film. (They never explain how Lupin knew that the Marauder's Map was a map or how to work it, for one. I suppose we're meant to think that because DADA is "his area of expertise," he can look at it and know how to work it? Harry never questions that in the book, either, but at least the reader finds out later that he's Moony!)
> 
> 4. The opening scene, with the somber music and Warner's symbol in a worn gray seemed to set a dark tone to this movie. What did you think of the sudden switch to the scene of Harry practicing magic and Vernon trying to catch him? What did you think of the movie's mix of darkness and humor?

Carol:
It did seem odd, but it sets us up for that same symbol and a dark opening in GoF--not that the filmmakers did that intentionally. I don't really care for the opening scene with Uncle Vernon (though it does introduce the Lumos spell), but I suppose it puts the viewer in familiar territory. I do like the scene with Aunt Marge, though. Very well done, including Harry storming out of the house and then suddenly realizing that Uncle Vernon's "You've no place to go" is the exact truth. The mix of darkness and humor is a good strategy, mirroring one of JKR's strengths. (I don't like the way Harry talks back to Snape, though. I'd have deducted some points there!)
> 
> 5. Practicing magic over the summer? How many un-canonical scenes can you identify in this movie?  That is, a scene that contradicts canon, as opposed to noncanonical scenes that are additions? Count them too, if you like. Or just comment on the more glaring ones. Did you like the changes, or not?

Carol:
I've already mentioned Harry cry, which I hate. I have absolutely no idea why they included the scene with the cleaning witch being nearly blown away and saying, "I'll come back later," and the shrunken heads are so uncanonical and unEnglish that I really don't see why JKR allowed them. I rather liked the two instances of the Headless Hunt members showing up out of nowhere (were they even mentioned in POA?). I didn't care for the Fat Lady singing ("It ain't over till the fat lady sings"????) or for Ron's dream of tapdancing spiders, a poor substitution indeed for Sirius Black slashing the bedcurtains. (Maybe that scene would have made the film too scary?) Having Hermione sock rather than slap Draco was probably effective. At least she squealed in terror when they were flying, which undoes the SuperGirl image a bit. For the most part, I find the additions annoying simply because adding them means cutting or altering the canon. And the shrunken heads are annoying in and of themselves. (Even if the film were set in Jamaica instead of England, I'd have hated them.)
> 
> 6. We've discussed the Aunt Marge scene recently. Could anyone tell what Dudley was watching on the TV (or is that telly?) with such great interest? Does anyone know if it is a real show, or a made-up one?

Carol:
It looked to me like an old-fashioned Ed Sullivan-style variety show, nothing a modern thirteen-year-old boy would watch. Maybe he was so conditioned to TV watching that he didn't care what was on TV (unless, of course, Aunt Marge was being blown up and hitting him in the head with buttons). As for Aunt Marge floating away, he obviously doesn't care in the least.
> 
> 7. What about the changes to familiar characters like Tom of the Leaky Cauldron, or Professor Flitwick or the Fat Lady? Or the changes to costumes--even Arthur looked like a Muggle! Did the changes work?

Carol responds:
I thought that Arthur's costume was odd (a red muffler on September 1?), so it wasn't *exactly* how a Muggle would dress, and I did notice a witch in the background with a witch hat, but over all, I thought it was just uncanonical to have the teachers (Lupin and Flitwick) in suits (Lupin's, at least, was appropriately shabby--BTW, did he pick up the clothes that he split down the back after he transformed and repair them magically? Both he and Peter Pettigrew left their clothes behind and would have been naked when they transformed back into human form.) Even Draco was wearing Muggle clothes after hours, which Book!Draco wouldn't be caught dead doing. I didn't like having Tom turned into some character out of a bad Frankenstein movie--might as well change his name to Igor and be done with it. I can see changing the costume of the Fat Lady a little since she's been recast as a very different actress, but the glass incident is just silly. The Muggle clothes have been transported into all the subsequent films, so I guess we just have to live with them--and with DD's monotonous wardrobe and beard tie. But if the series is redone in ten years or so, I hope they'll follow the books more closely. Cuaron wanted to make it *his* film. Columbus, for all his faults, at least wanted to make it JKR's.
>  
> 8. Lupin's description of Lily created a lot of comment at main. Now that we've read all the books, was movie!Lupin correct? Do you think Snape would agree with Lupin's opinion of Lily?

Carol:
Snape idealized Lily, so, yes, he'd have agreed with it. But I think it was made prematurely, and it doesn't fit the Lily we meet in the books.
> 
> 9. Harry tells Lupin he's used a memory of his parents talking to him, and says something like, "I don't even know if it's real." Does that remind you of anything?

Carol:
I thought that it referred to the Mirror of Erised.
> 
> 10. For the first time I heard Hermione say something along the line of "I heard Snape telling DD that it would take a powerful wizard to conjure that Patronus." Where was Snape supposed to be that he saw the Patronus? Did anyone catch sight of him in the "rewinding of time" when Hermione and Harry used the TT to go back.

Carol responds:
I keep asking myself the same question (and I did slow down the action to try to see what he was doing in the background). Since he was there protecting the kids, why didn't he chase after Harry rather than (apparently) staying with Ron and Hermione, who were in no immediate danger? He must have followed at some point but arrived too late to do anything himself (what could have delayed him that long?) He didn't take the kids to the hospital wing until *after* they were saved by the Patronus, or Hermione couldn't have overheard him talking about the Patronus. Essentially, his part makes no sense. He goes from heroic to absent. I think it's implied that he got the kids to the hospital wing (no one else could have done it), but IMO, it's very bacly handled. (Clearly, the writers didn't know that he could cast a powerful Patronus of his own, and it had to be Harry who saved the day through the Time Turning.) JKR's version is better--but I do like the scene of Snape standing protectively in front of the kids rather than being bounced along with his head hitting the tunnel wall by Black. (On a side note, I almost like the movie version of Sirius Black once they get past the intended murder. He's a much more sympathetic character than Book!Sirius. I could do without the line about Remus living in his heart, though. Gah! That was saccharine and corny--and politically charged.) 
> 
> 11. We get an abbreviated version of the Marauders, and only a touch on the Snape/Marauder animosity during this movie. How do you think that will play out in later movies?

Carol:
Well, we James as "swine" in the OoP version of SWM. I think they're just focusing on the James Potter/Severus Snape angle and ignoring the rest. we may get a lengthier replay of SWM, complete with Lily, in DH, but I think that's as far as it will go. (The movies have never made the Marauder/James and company connection explicit.)
> 
> 12. Do you think the newer movies will have to explain the Patronus again? Will it be clear that a Patronus is an animal shape?

Carol:
Well, they did show Luna's hare and Ginny's horse(?) in OoP. They could use Kingsley's lynx and/or Mr. Weasley's weasel early in DH to show Patronuses sending messages to foreshadow the doe Patronus. I have a feeling that they've left the Patronuses (and much else) out of HBP. 
>  
> 13. Buckbeak attacks Lupin in the movie.  Do you think the movie will repeat that action in HBP when he should attack Snape?

Carol:
I think they'll leave that out. People will wonder why Buckbeak is back in the movie for that one scene--and it wouldn't be worth the CGI effects just for that. Snape has reason enough to want out of there without an undignified exit pursued by a hippogriff.
> 
> 14. There were lots of clocks in this movie, Lupin's solar system, his floating time candles in the shape of spines, the pendulum, the clock and its gears in a tower. Do you think Cuaron thought the time turning sequence was the crux of the movie?

Carol:
I hadn't thought about the candles in the shape of spines in that connection, and the clock and gears just seemed ominous, rather like the complicated locking mechanism on the doors. I thought that he was emphasizing that it was the Cinderella hour and they had to get back to the hospital wing or they'd turn into pumpkins. Or, well, something equally bad would happen if they didn't somehow miraculuously run up several flights of stairs (I forget which floor the hospital wing is on) in twelve strokes of the clock. But, yeah, I do think he thought that the time-turning sequence was the crux of the movie, and he made it blatantly obvious that Hermione was showing up out of nowhere in her classes. (Funny that no one but Ron noticed.)
> 
> 15. There are lots of special effects in this movie--Aunt Marge, Dementors, and the werewolf, to name a few. Did you like the way they were done? Were the Dementors and their effect what you expected?

Carol:
I thought that the bald, anthropomorphic werewolf was pathetic, but the Dementors were scary and horrible, especially their hands and mouths. I didn't like the way they seemed to be sucking souls rather than happiness all the time, though. The soul-sucking needs to be its own (unshown) special effect, the "kiss" of worse than death. And they're not supposed to fly, only glide near the ground, but I suppose that works well enough in the film that I can let it go.
> 
> 16. Any scenes in particular that you'd like to discuss? Was anything missing from the movie? Did the plot make sense? Was anything better in the movie than the book?

Carol:
I think I've answered all those questions already. I do want to mention another minor annoyance, Harry's gratuitous meanness in grabbing (stealing) Neville's lollipop. That was an action worthy of James at his worst, or Draco in an invisibility cloak, but it was wholly unworthy of Harry and just plain petty. The only things I liked better were Aunt Marge as hot air balloon and Snape guarding the kids from the werewolf (even though he seems to evaporate into incompetence the moment Harry runs off).
> 
> 17. And the first question that really just popped into my head--Did anyone ever say who the manufacturers of the map were? Did we ever get the nicknames?

Carol:
We got the nicknames twice: from Harry reading the map before he opens it (Fred or George says, "We owe them so much") and again when the four present their compliments to Professor Snape and then insult him, but they're never identified. (I wonder if any sharp moviegoers who hadn't read the books connected "Moony" with Lupin's moon Boggart and realized that he must have been one of the makers because he knew how to work the map?) There's no clue to the other three, though, except the distant shot of Prongs, which is insufficiently connected to the Patronus Harry is casting and completely unexplained.
> 
> 18. Would anyone like to volunteer for a GoF discussion? 

Carol:
Er, maybe. If so, I'll offlist you.

Carol, who actually rewatched the movie before answering the questions this time 





From heidi at heidi8.com  Tue Mar 17 14:58:06 2009
From: heidi at heidi8.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:58:06 -0400
Subject: Special Guest Announcement: Chris Rankin (Percy) Will Be Kickin' Az!
Message-ID: <5913e6f80903170758t57dc0627g5accf735e0d1bdfb@mail.gmail.com>

HPEF is excited to announce that Chris Rankin (Percy Weasley) will be
joining us at Azktraz*! Mr. Rankin will be at Azkatraz throughout the
weekend and will be presenting us with a Q&A session at *A Dessert with
Chris Rankin*.  This will take place on either Saturday or Sunday (exact
date and time to be announced in April). Tickets can be purchased by anyone
holding a full registration, a Merlin's Circle registration or a single-day
registration, and only 125 tickets are available! Enjoy a chocolate fountain
and mounds of other sweets, plus coffee, tea and lemonade, while
participating in a Q&A with Chris. After he speaks, he'll visit all the
tables as well.  Tickets are $65 through April 1, and go up to $75 through
June 30. If tickets are available at the door, they will cost $100 each.

In addition, Mr. Rankin will be participating in many more events at
Azkatraz, including autograph and photograph sessions on Saturday and
Sunday. More details will be announced in the near future; visit our website
at http://www.hp2009.org for more information about Azkatraz.

Be sure to register! Basic registration for Azkatraz is currently $145 and
will increase to $165 on April 15; we're also having a special Weasley Sale
on Masters of Potter Administration registrations, and you can visit
http://www.hp2009.org/?q=node/13 for more information.


See you in San Francisco in July!


- Team Azkatraz


* All special guest appearances are subject to filming requirements; in the
unlikely event of cancellation of this guest, all monies paid for tickets to
the dessert and for photographs will be refunded within 30 days.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 17 15:35:49 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:35:49 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION
In-Reply-To: <001201c9a6ff$ffd0b8f0$ff722ad0$@com>
Message-ID: <gpog0l+h93r@eGroups.com>

Cabal wrote:
>
> Well, if you're okay with subtitles I recommend Cuaron's other works, he's a character not a plot director and it seems like most of your issues are plot ones (Harry's tears being the exception).

Carol responds:
Yes, and plot is crucial to the books. I wouldn't call my complaints "issues," BTW. They're matters of taste and preference. I'd prefer "more matter with less art," as Gertrude says to Polonius. And, of course, I don't like plot holes. (What *was* Snape supposed to be doing while Harry ran after Padfoot and Werewolf!Lupin? At least, in the book, there's a reason why he didn't cast his own Patronus. He was out cold. Ditto for Lupin and the map.) 

The Dementor Boggart "issue" (problem?) is not a question of plot. It's a question of the special effects people not paying attention to the script. Either that or Lupin, seeing the Dementor Boggart in the earlier scene and expecting it to turn into Voldemort, is seriously in need of glasses. And did he somehow think that the other students didn't see that Dementor (which is just as terrifying as Voldemort, frankly). At least, in the book, Harry never has a chance to step in front of the Boggart. The moment Lupin realizes that it's Harry's turn, he banishes the Boggart, which never has a chance to sense his fear and transform.
> 
Cabal:> 
> Here's the thing about what Cuaron did, he moved the films from being plot driven to being character driven and the from the boring, limp visual style of Columbus (my nominee for the lifetime Razzy award!) and made it a cinematic experience. The first two movies looked like Hollywood  cash-in films but POA looks like a work of art.

Carol responds:
You're expressing a perfectly legitimate preference--film as art over film as canonical retelling of JKR's story. I'd have preferred a little less gratuitous art (the Fat Lady singing, the "talking heads") and fewer plot holes. And there was no reason to make the kids dress like Muggles beyond giving them school uniforms under their robes. (We wouldn't have wanted to see Ron dragged by "the Grim" wearing nothing but a school robe and underwear.) But where does Harry get Muggle clothes other than Dudley's castoffs? Where does Ron, whose parents are wizards with no idea how Muggles dress and not much money, get them? And what about Draco, who never steps outside the WW and wouldn't be caught dead dressing like a Muggle? "Art" should not replace the consistency and logic of JKR's world (where that logic exists--I realize that she has inconsistencies of her own). And that includes foreign elements like shrunken heads with very un-English accents. (Can you link me to an article stating JKR's approval of that uncanonical and unnecessary addition to the story? Why not leave Stan and Ernie as they're written? BTW, the shrunken heads seem to me like an intrusion by the director into the scriptwriter's territory. I doubt that Steve Kloves would have added shrunken heads with Jamaican accents had he not been asked to--and, possibly, he didn't write those lines himself.) You like it. I don't. No point in arguing because neither of us will change the other's mind. You might as well try to argue me into liking caviar. It's hopeless. (JKR insisted on British actors. Maybe she should have insisted on British directors, too. Then you wouldn't be complaining about Columbus and I wouldn't be complaining about Cuaron.)
> 
Cabal: 
> I wish the film was longer because I liked the it but did want a couple of things like the map explained in the film.
> 
Carol:
Yes, it should have been longer and the map should have been explained, particularly Lupin's connection to it. At least they could have shown him discovering that it was a map or Harry confessing it and telling him how it worked. Otherwise, we jump from a supposed Zonko's product (do filmgoers even know what Zonko's is) insulting Snape to Lupin holding the still folded map and knowing what it is and how to work it--and Harry not raising an eyebrow.

BTW, I do understand why they had Harry see Pettigrew on the map and telling Lupin about it. It simplified matters. Lupin would have been watching the map and would have seen what he saw in the book. But Snape's presence is unexplained. He should have been bringing Lupin the potion as he did in the book. Either make the film longer to include those important details or cut some of the silliness (Madam Rosmerta lecturing Fudge about Dementors, shrunken heads, Fat Lady singing) for "matter" over "art."  

Cabal: 
> Rowling loved the shrunken head and the inclusion of the clock-tower (not in the book) so it's her world, I accept any change / addition so long as she's on board and she was.

Carol responds:
I have no complaint about the clock tower, which was an effective addition. And even if JKR accepted the shrunken heads, for some fans, including me, they're a distracting and *un-English* intrusion into JKR's world. (Yes, I know that Hogwarts is in Scotland, but most of the teachers and students are English.)
> 
Cabal: 
> I thought Cuaron made the time-turner ending work in ways the book didn't, it begs you to watch a second time. 
> 
Carol responds:
If only what happened in the background had been clearer and more easily interpreted, especially in a theater where you can't slow the action down. What's going on with the other guy (a student?) in pajamas and other, unrecognizable adults (faculty members who never appear anywhere in the books or the film???) after Snape and Dumbledore leave? Why isn't that patient still in the hospital wing, which is deserted except for Ron and their departing selves when Hermione and Harry return? 

Do you have any specific complaints about the way the scene was written and any specific improvements to note in the filming? (The rock throwing seems pointless to me. Hermione knows that they left. Also, the Patronus is not clearly the same as the shining stag, which doesn't return to Harry as in the book. I think that a filmgoer would be confused and think that the Patronus is just a shining light shield.) 

Cabal: 
> The only complaints I ever hear about POA are from book fans, where I think the one film to complain about from the POV of  book fan is GOF, that's the butcher job! <snip>

Carol responds:
Book fans are the ones who know what's missing! I do wonder, though, whether people who didn't read the books were confused by some of the details, including the glitch with the Dementor Boggart, which is or ought to be evident to any viewer. (Huh? Lupin *saw* the Dementor Boggart. How could he think it would turn into Lord Voldemort?)

BTW, I agree with you that GoF is " butcher job," but I assume that we'll be discussing that film in a week or two. PoA (and OoP and probably HBP) also sacrifices or alters important plot elements, just not so obviously because the plot elements are more neatly interwoven.

Carol, who had high hopes for PoA based on the trailer and still likes parts of it, including the music and some of the CGI





From md at exit-reality.com  Tue Mar 17 16:42:31 2009
From: md at exit-reality.com (Nightbreed)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:42:31 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION
In-Reply-To: <gpog0l+h93r@eGroups.com>
References: <001201c9a6ff$ffd0b8f0$ff722ad0$@com> <gpog0l+h93r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000901c9a71f$5dd5fea0$1981fbe0$@com>

 

 

From: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Carol
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 11:36 AM
To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION

 

Cabal wrote:
>
> Well, if you're okay with subtitles I recommend Cuaron's other works, he's
a character not a plot director and it seems like most of your issues are
plot ones (Harry's tears being the exception).

Carol responds:
Yes, and plot is crucial to the books. I wouldn't call my complaints
"issues," BTW. They're matters of taste and preference. I'd prefer "more
matter with less art," as Gertrude says to Polonius. And, of course, I don't
like plot holes. (What *was* Snape supposed to be doing while Harry ran
after Padfoot and Werewolf!Lupin? At least, in the book, there's a reason
why he didn't cast his own Patronus. He was out cold. Ditto for Lupin and
the map.) 
He took Ron & Hermione to the hospital wing, Ron's leg was broken.


The Dementor Boggart "issue" (problem?) is not a question of plot. It's a
question of the special effects people not paying attention to the script.
Either that or Lupin, seeing the Dementor Boggart in the earlier scene and
expecting it to turn into Voldemort, is seriously in need of glasses. And
did he somehow think that the other students didn't see that Dementor (which
is just as terrifying as Voldemort, frankly). At least, in the book, Harry
never has a chance to step in front of the Boggart. The moment Lupin
realizes that it's Harry's turn, he banishes the Boggart, which never has a
chance to sense his fear and transform.

Lupin moved to get between Harry and the boggart before it changed, as if it
suddenly occurred to Lupin that the boggart might become Voldy, not as if he
saw it and then was just too stupid to realize the difference. The point was
that Harry feared, fear worse than anything else and that Lupin was wrong
thinking it would be Voldy.


> 
Cabal:> 
> Here's the thing about what Cuaron did, he moved the films from being plot
driven to being character driven and the from the boring, limp visual style
of Columbus (my nominee for the lifetime Razzy award!) and made it a
cinematic experience. The first two movies looked like Hollywood cash-in
films but POA looks like a work of art.

Carol responds:
You're expressing a perfectly legitimate preference--film as art over film
as canonical retelling of JKR's story. I'd have preferred a little less
gratuitous art (the Fat Lady singing, the "talking heads") and fewer plot
holes. And there was no reason to make the kids dress like Muggles beyond
giving them school uniforms under their robes. (We wouldn't have wanted to
see Ron dragged by "the Grim" wearing nothing but a school robe and
underwear.) But where does Harry get Muggle clothes other than Dudley's
castoffs? Where does Ron, whose parents are wizards with no idea how Muggles
dress and not much money, get them? And what about Draco, who never steps
outside the WW and wouldn't be caught dead dressing like a Muggle? "Art"
should not replace the consistency and logic of JKR's world (where that
logic exists--I realize that she has inconsistencies of her own). And that
includes foreign elements like shrunken heads with very un-English accents.
(Can you link me to an article stating JKR's approval of that uncanonical
and unnecessary addition to the story? Why not leave Stan and Ernie as
they're written? BTW, the shrunken heads seem to me like an intrusion by the
director into the scriptwriter's territory. I doubt that Steve Kloves would
have added shrunken heads with Jamaican accents had he not been asked
to--and, possibly, he didn't write those lines himself.) You like it. I
don't. No point in arguing because neither of us will change the other's
mind. You might as well try to argue me into liking caviar. It's hopeless.
(JKR insisted on British actors. Maybe she should have insisted on British
directors, too. Then you wouldn't be complaining about Columbus and I
wouldn't be complaining about Cuaron.)

In the books they wear "jumpers" (sweaters) and "trainers" (sneakers)
obviously Muggle attire. Plus, with a good deal of the children not being
"pure blood" it stands to reason that a good deal have at least one muggle
parent. Since Columbus did not address the Dudley clothes early-on it
couldn't suddenly be an issue in the third film. Also, it stands to reason
that since there is a way to trade wizard gold/silver/bronze from muggle
cash that Harry would buy his own damn clothes, actually annoyed me that JKR
didn't have him do that, why wouldn't he??? The people that wouldn't be
caught dead dressing like a muggle are usually older wizards, plus Harry is
raised by muggles, Hermoine is born to muggles and Ron's dad is obsessed
with muggles, so at least on those three it makes sense. Plus the "school
uniforms" under the robes are MUGGLE CLOTHES!!! If anything I think it was
JKR that was inconsistent and the films made things a little more logical.

 

As for JKR I believe it's on a behind-the-scenes on a DVD for the film that
she talks about the heads. It was YEARS ago when the film came out now, I
read articles all over the place at the time you can't expect me to remember
where I read everything I read several years ago. Either way, I'm certainly
not lying, thanks for respecting that if I say I read something I'm not full
of BS.


> 
Cabal: 
> I wish the film was longer because I liked the it but did want a couple of
things like the map explained in the film.
> 
Carol:
Yes, it should have been longer and the map should have been explained,
particularly Lupin's connection to it. At least they could have shown him
discovering that it was a map or Harry confessing it and telling him how it
worked. Otherwise, we jump from a supposed Zonko's product (do filmgoers
even know what Zonko's is) insulting Snape to Lupin holding the still folded
map and knowing what it is and how to work it--and Harry not raising an
eyebrow.

BTW, I do understand why they had Harry see Pettigrew on the map and telling
Lupin about it. It simplified matters. Lupin would have been watching the
map and would have seen what he saw in the book. But Snape's presence is
unexplained. He should have been bringing Lupin the potion as he did in the
book. Either make the film longer to include those important details or cut
some of the silliness (Madam Rosmerta lecturing Fudge about Dementors,
shrunken heads, Fat Lady singing) for "matter" over "art." 

Cabal: 
> Rowling loved the shrunken head and the inclusion of the clock-tower (not
in the book) so it's her world, I accept any change / addition so long as
she's on board and she was.

Carol responds:
I have no complaint about the clock tower, which was an effective addition.
And even if JKR accepted the shrunken heads, for some fans, including me,
they're a distracting and *un-English* intrusion into JKR's world. (Yes, I
know that Hogwarts is in Scotland, but most of the teachers and students are
English.)

 

Who gives a crap about whether it's "English?" Not me.


> 
Cabal: 
> I thought Cuaron made the time-turner ending work in ways the book didn't,
it begs you to watch a second time. 
> 
Carol responds:
If only what happened in the background had been clearer and more easily
interpreted, especially in a theater where you can't slow the action down.
What's going on with the other guy (a student?) in pajamas and other,
unrecognizable adults (faculty members who never appear anywhere in the
books or the film???) after Snape and Dumbledore leave? Why isn't that
patient still in the hospital wing, which is deserted except for Ron and
their departing selves when Hermione and Harry return? 

Are you talking about the blur of people as they time-travel? It's all stuff
that happened in the three hours before they got there, so who cares what it
is. Also, it stands to reason there is more faculty than even JKR writes
about.

Do you have any specific complaints about the way the scene was written and
any specific improvements to note in the filming? (The rock throwing seems
pointless to me. Hermione knows that they left. Also, the Patronus is not
clearly the same as the shining stag, which doesn't return to Harry as in
the book. I think that a filmgoer would be confused and think that the
Patronus is just a shining light shield.) 

I don't have complaints about how it was written, I just liked that the
movie made everything they did relevant and by showing the scenes from
different perspective, I think it's the sort of thing that works better
visually than in writing and I think Cuaron made that visual experience
clear and interesting. I like the rock-throwing because it's funny, and
Hermoine's "is that really what my hair looks like from the back" comment. I
felt that in the book it was just the next chapter where in the film the
overlap was obvious and it showed that them in the future had effect on
several moments in the past.



Cabal: 
> The only complaints I ever hear about POA are from book fans, where I
think the one film to complain about from the POV of book fan is GOF, that's
the butcher job! <snip>

Carol responds:
Book fans are the ones who know what's missing! I do wonder, though, whether
people who didn't read the books were confused by some of the details,
including the glitch with the Dementor Boggart, which is or ought to be
evident to any viewer. (Huh? Lupin *saw* the Dementor Boggart. How could he
think it would turn into Lord Voldemort?)

BTW, I agree with you that GoF is " butcher job," but I assume that we'll be
discussing that film in a week or two. PoA (and OoP and probably HBP) also
sacrifices or alters important plot elements, just not so obviously because
the plot elements are more neatly interwoven.

Carol, who had high hopes for PoA based on the trailer and still likes parts
of it, including the music and some of the CGI

The only thing I took issue with CGI is the werewolf looks nothing like man
or beast, but some third bastard offshoot. Don't understand why? In the book
they "ran" with him, but in the movie he's not very animal at all.

 

md





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From eggplant107 at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 17 20:34:14 2009
From: eggplant107 at hotmail.com (eggplant107)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:34:14 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <gpn6t0+5trb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gpp1g6+lt0d@eGroups.com>

Carol wrote a very interesting post:

> having Harry cry when he hears about
> Sirius Black's supposed betrayal [
]
> is completely out of character. 

Yea that's true, Harry doesn't cry a lot, but on the other hand sadness and anger are similar emotions and for me the scene is salvaged when Harry says "I hope he finds me because when he does I'm going to kill him". That is in character. 

> toy trains, shrunken heads, or Tom the Barman. 

I had no problem with any of that. I think you need to distinguish between stuff that isn't in the book from stuff that couldn't be
in the book. For example, there isn't a Hogwarts Clock tower
in the book, but there should have been. 

By the way, in CoS I thought it was a great line when Ron said "Spiders, why did it have to spiders? Why couldn't it have been follow the butterflies?" JKR didn't write that but I'll bet she wishes she had.  

> exactly, was Snape doing while Harry 
> was running after Sirius? Still protecting 
> Ron and Hermione when Harry was in danger?

In a word yes. Snape knew that Sirius had protected people 
from Lupin in the past and no reason to think he couldn't
do it again. Anyway, did you expect Snape to abandon 
Ron and Hermione with a werewolf running around who knows where?

> They never explain how Lupin knew that 
> the Marauder's Map was a map or how to
> work it, for one. 

I agree, the very important Marauder's subplot was given
very little time.

> I have absolutely no idea why they included 
> the scene with the cleaning witch being 
> nearly blown away and saying, "I'll come back later," 

I loved that scene and it got a big laugh in the theater I was in. It's not in the book but no reason it couldn't be; I don't know
what she saw but I'll bet a lot of weird stuff was going on 
in that place and that cleaning witch had seen it all. 

> Ron's dream of tap dancing spiders, a poor 
> substitution indeed for Sirius Black slashing
> the bed curtains. 

I agree.

> it's uncanonical, and we have the altered Flitwick 

At no point does JKR say that Flitwick is not interested in music
and it makes no contradictions to the story if he was. 

The problem I have with Azkaban is not what is on the screen,
in that regard I think it is the most skillful of all the movies;
my problem is in what they decided not to put on screen and in
that they were the most incompetent. If the movie was 20 minutes longer it would have been great, and if they then just cut out
the closing credits the total running time could have been the same.

 Eggplant 

 












From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 17 21:47:01 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:47:01 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION
In-Reply-To: <000901c9a71f$5dd5fea0$1981fbe0$@com>
Message-ID: <gpp5ol+cai6@eGroups.com>

Carol earlier:
<snip> And there was no reason to make the kids dress like Muggles beyond giving them school uniforms under their robes. (We wouldn't have wanted to see Ron dragged by "the Grim" wearing nothing but a school robe and underwear.) But where does Harry get Muggle clothes other than Dudley's castoffs? Where does Ron, whose parents are wizards with no idea how Muggles dress and not much money, get them? And what about Draco, who never steps outside the WW and wouldn't be caught dead dressing like a Muggle? 

Cabal or md (not sure what to call you, sorry!) wrote: 
> In the books they wear "jumpers" (sweaters) and "trainers" (sneakers) obviously Muggle attire. Plus, with a good deal of the children not being "pure blood" it stands to reason that a good deal have at least one muggle
> parent.

Carol responds:
Good point about the "jumpers" and "trainers." However, in the books, we never see the kids changing out of their robes into anything except pajamas at school (never into Muggle clothes that I recall), and witches and wizards in or out of school wear robes unless they're trying unsuccessfully to dress as Muggles. (Muggle-borns, as you say, are an exception to that rule.)

Cabal (md):
>  Since Columbus did not address the Dudley clothes early-on it couldn't suddenly be an issue in the third film.

Carol responds:
Nevertheless, Harry does seem to be wearing something like hand-me-downs in the first film when he's still at the Dursleys'--not as exaggerated as in the books, of course, but obviously Dudley doesn't *really* take up the whole side of a table and isn't *really* as wide as he is tall (yes, I know he's a fictional character, but the narrator is engaging in comic hyperbole nonetheless). I can't recall how Harry dresses at home in CoS, but suddenly in PoA he's dressing normally at home and the kids at school are suddenly wearing normal (to us) Muggle clothes outside of school. It takes away from the "wizardliness" of the WW (IMO) to have everything about their life the same as ours except wands (and Animagi and werewolves and hippogriffs). Even Potions class has disappeared from the films by CoS. (Okay, the candies that the boys eat are a nice touch.) Instead of Wizard robes and Witch hats we get shrunken heads and electric(?) trains and Victrolas. Instead of a vaguely medieval WW, we have a vaguely 1920s version. Where did it come from? Cuaron's imagination, apparently. It has nothing to do with the WW as JKR depicts it--and yet some of those details, including professors in Muggle clothes (Umbridge, anyone?) and Victrolas (McGonagall teaching the Gryffindors how to dance) are continued into later films. 

Cabal/md:
> Also, it stands to reason that since there is a way to trade wizard gold/silver/bronze from muggle cash that Harry would buy his own damn clothes, actually annoyed me that JKR didn't have him do that, why wouldn't he??? 

Carol responds:
Because he has no opportunity to do so. He's either at home or at Hogwarts most of the time. Besides, don't you think that the Dursleys would wonder where he got the money to buy the clothes and take it--and the clothes--away from him?

Cabal/md:
> The people that wouldn't be caught dead dressing like a muggle are usually older wizards, plus Harry is raised by muggles, Hermoine is born to muggles and Ron's dad is obsessed with muggles, so at least on those three it makes sense. 

Carol:
What about Draco and his friends, who are obsessed with being Pure-Bloods who look down on Muggle-borns--and, by extension, Muggles? They wouldn't be caught dead in Muggle clothes. As for Ron, his parents don't have enough money to buy him decent dress robes and they don't know how Muggles dress. Where are they supposed to get decent Muggle clothes for five kids (not counting Bill and Charlie, who earn their own living).

Cabal:
> Plus the "school uniforms" under the robes are MUGGLE CLOTHES!!! If anything I think it was JKR that was inconsistent and the films made things a little more logical.

Carol responds:
I already conceded that the uncanonical school uniforms are Muggle clothes. Apparently, Columbus et al. didn't want to follow JKR in having the kids wear only underwear under the robes, or they didn't know what they wore. (Columbus also had the robes indicate the different Houses through insignias. How the first years knew to buy the right robes is not addressed.) IMO, the robes should look more like academic gowns, closed front and back, not long coats that reveal Muggle-style school uniforms underneath, and the kids should wear them even when they're out of school because that's how people dress in the WW. If medieval people and people in biblical times and even some modern-day Arabs can live without trousers, so can Witches and Wizards. But, say that we concede the point about modern kids being awkward and uncomfortable in such clothes and need school uniforms under their robes. At least let them wear the school uniforms on evenings and weekends and not uncanonical Muggle clothes. They're not us.
> 
Carol earlier:
<snip>(Can you link me to an article stating JKR's approval of that uncanonical and unnecessary addition to the story? Why not leave Stan and Ernie as they're written? BTW, the shrunken heads seem to me like an intrusion by the director into the scriptwriter's territory. I doubt that Steve Kloves would have added shrunken heads with Jamaican accents had he not been asked to--and, possibly, he didn't write those lines himself.) You like it. I don't. No point in arguing because neither of us will change the other's mind. <snip>


Cabal/md: 
> As for JKR I believe it's on a behind-the-scenes on a DVD for the film that she talks about the heads. It was YEARS ago when the film came out now, I read articles all over the place at the time you can't expect me to remember where I read everything I read several years ago. Either way, I'm certainly not lying, thanks for respecting that if I say I read something I'm not full of BS. <snip>

Carol responds:
Of course, I'm not accusing you of lying or inventing the remark. I just asked whether you could provide the link. (I can try Googling it, but I thought you might have it bookmarked.) Please don't take offense where none is intended. :-)

Carol earlier:
> I have no complaint about the clock tower, which was an effective addition. And even if JKR accepted the shrunken heads, for some fans, including me, they're a distracting and *un-English* intrusion into JKR's world. (Yes, I know that Hogwarts is in Scotland, but most of the teachers and students are English.)
 
Cabal: 
> Who gives a crap about whether it's "English?" Not me.
>
Carol responds:
*I* care. The setting of the books is specifically the Britain and most of the characters are specifically English. (Seamus is specifically Irish, McGonagall specifically Scottish.) Just as Beauxbatons has a French flavor and Durmstrang (despite its German name) a Slavic one, Hogwarts is very, very English, as is the WW as we see it represented in the books and onscreen. The Shrunken heads are a foreign intrusion, as foreign as if an American school started serving bouillabaisse to its students. (And please watch your tone. I would never phrase a question to you in that way.)
> 
Carol earlier:
> <snip> Do you have any specific complaints about the way the scene was written and any specific improvements to note in the filming? (The rock throwing seems pointless to me. Hermione knows that they left. Also, the Patronus is not clearly the same as the shining stag, which doesn't return to Harry as in the book. I think that a filmgoer would be confused and think that the Patronus is just a shining light shield.) 

Cabal/md: 
> I don't have complaints about how it was written, I just liked that the movie made everything they did relevant and by showing the scenes from different perspective, I think it's the sort of thing that works better visually than in writing and I think Cuaron made that visual experience clear and interesting. I like the rock-throwing because it's funny, and Hermoine's "is that really what my hair looks like from the back" comment. I felt that in the book it was just the next chapter where in the film the overlap was obvious and it showed that them in the future had effect on several moments in the past.
> 
Carol responds:
It did work well visually, I agree, but I'm not so sure that they *changed* the future. I think the point JKR made was that it always only happened that way because the present and future were simultaneous. (Of course, if they hadn't gone back, it wouldn't have happened that way, but nothing was actually *changed.* Hermione's rock throwing made no difference. She *knew* that they had left! (I didn'tn't care for the girly-girl comment about her hair, either--out of character for Hermione and the last thing she should have been thinking about. Again, it's just a matter of taste. You like it. I don't. It's Hermione, not Hermoine, BTW. 

Carol earlier:
> <snip> Carol, who had high hopes for PoA based on the trailer and still likes parts of it, including the music and some of the CGI

Cabal/md: 
> The only thing I took issue with CGI is the werewolf looks nothing like man or beast, but some third bastard offshoot. Don't understand why? In the book they "ran" with him, but in the movie he's not very animal at all.

Carol:
Hooray! A point we can agree on.

Carol, who is finally reconciled to Lupin's funny little mustache, at least




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 17 22:48:19 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:48:19 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <gpp1g6+lt0d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gpp9bj+g5rn@eGroups.com>

Eggplant wrote:
>
> Carol wrote a very interesting post:

Carol responds:
Thanks!

Carol earlier: 
> > having Harry cry when he hears about Sirius Black's supposed betrayal [
] is completely out of character. 

Eggplant: 
> Yea that's true, Harry doesn't cry a lot, but on the other hand sadness and anger are similar emotions and for me the scene is salvaged when Harry says "I hope he finds me because when he does I'm going to kill him". That is in character. 

Carol responds:
I agree that sadness and anger are similar emotions, or maybe closely related emotions, but I think that many people (mostly men and boys and Harry in particular) express sadness *through* anger. (Book!Harry's reaction to Sirius Black's death in OoP is one example.) I agree that the line you quoted is in character, but I don't think that the tears are. And Dan Radcliffe at that point was starting to become a pretty good child actor, but he couldn't cry convincingly and I think it was a mistake to force him to attempt it.

Carol earlier: 
> > toy trains, shrunken heads, or Tom the Barman. 

Eggplant: 
> I had no problem with any of that. I think you need to distinguish between stuff that isn't in the book from stuff that couldn't be in the book. For example, there isn't a Hogwarts Clock tower in the book, but there should have been. 

Carol again:
As I said earlier, I do like the clock tower. But Tom the Barman had already been played by a different actor without any of the "Igor" nonsense, and toy trains have nothing to do with the story or with Lupin as a character or with DADA. Why the 1920s atmosphere? I don't see the need. Art for art's sake? And leave the shrunken heads with their Jamaican accents out of the film, please. (Again, as I said upthread, it's a matter of taste.) I did like the way that the *portraits* were handled for the most part, Fat Lady aside, even the giraffe, which took up no more than half a second of screen time and was mercifully silent, unlike the stupid "talking heads." And I was glad to see that PoA continued the motif of moving stairways from the earlier films even though it played no role in the plot this time around. 

Eggplant: 
> By the way, in CoS I thought it was a great line when Ron said "Spiders, why did it have to spiders? Why couldn't it have been follow the butterflies?" JKR didn't write that but I'll bet she wishes she had.  

Carol:
Yes, that's a memorable film moment, geared to Rupert Grint's comic talent. 

Carol earlier: 
> > exactly, was Snape doing while Harry was running after Sirius? Still protecting Ron and Hermione when Harry was in danger?

Eggplant: 
> In a word yes. Snape knew that Sirius had protected people from Lupin in the past and no reason to think he couldn't do it again. 

Carol responds:
How could he know that? He didn't know that Black was an Animagus until that moment. (In the books, he still didn't know it until Black transformed in front of him in CoS.) But I suppose he thought that Black had it covered and since he couldn't be in two places at once, he'd better remain with the injured student. (Possibly he conjured a stretcher and told Hermione to escort Ron to the hospital wing and then ran after Harry, arriving just in time to see the Patronus and conjure stretchers for Harry and Black, but we don't see any of that. There's no explanation for how they got to the hospital wing, only the shifting figures in the background.)

Eggplant:
> Anyway, did you expect Snape to abandon Ron and Hermione with a werewolf running around who knows where?

Carol responds:
But the werewolf wasn't "who knows where." He was being chased by Sirius Black in Animagus form and followed by Harry. And though Snape does protect the students in general (for example, searching the dungeons for Sirius Black), it's Harry that he's sworn to protect (the filmmakers, of course, didn't know that)--and it's Harry, not Ron and Hermione, who's in danger from the werewolf at the moment. But I've already proposed a what-Snape-might-have-been-doing scenario that works for me even though it feels forced and unnatural. (Had Book!Snape been conscious when these events happened, he would have literally flown after Harry and conjured his Patronus--and DH would have been ruined. JKR had to keep his abilities and loyalties under wraps. The filmmakers were somewhat similarly constrained: Snape had to be kept offscreen doing who knows what so that Black and Harry could be seriously endangered and Time-Turned!Harry could cast his Patronus.)

Carol earlier: 
> > They never explain how Lupin knew that the Marauder's Map was a map or how to work it, for one. 

Eggplant: 
> I agree, the very important Marauder's subplot was given very little time. <snip>

Carol responds:
And it's not just the Marauder's Map but the whole Snape/MWPP dynamic that's unclear. All they needed to do was add a few lines of dialogue to make things clear. Instead, we have Lupin on the bridge talking about Lily's (uncanonical or extracanonical) kindness to him and James's (canonical but unspecified) talent for trouble. <snip>

Carol earlier: 
> > it's uncanonical, and we have the altered Flitwick <snipped by Eggplant>

Eggplant:
> At no point does JKR say that Flitwick is not interested in music and it makes no contradictions to the story if he was. 

Carol:
I don't mind his directing the chorus (I said earlier that I liked the song), but the filmmakers seem to have eliminated his role as Charms professor and altered his looks and costuming so drastically that, except for his small size, he's not even the same character. No Hogwarts professor would wear a tuxedo! If we can't keep Dumbledore's colorful robes, why not at least keep Flitwick looking like a miniature Merlin? And I can't recall specifically whether any Charms classes are specifically mentioned in PoA (the book), but a lot of the humor occurs there--for example, Flitwick being tossed around with the cushions when the kids are learning Summoning or Banishing Charms. Why bring in extraneous humor (the Fat Lady, the cleaning lady, the shrunken heads, Rosmerta "hammering" Fudge) when similar elements are built into the story? (Hagrid's accidentally ripping the door off Fudge's sleigh is all right--it's more or less in character--but Wizards wouldn't use Muggle transportation.)

Eggplant: 
> The problem I have with Azkaban is not what is on the screen, in that regard I think it is the most skillful of all the movies;

Carol:
Yes and no. Most of the CGI is pretty good (the werewolf excepted), but the added elements were unnecessary and took up time that could have been used to prevent holes in the plot. And I forgot to mention that unkown Gryffindor boy who seems to know everything and steals everybody's lines. He appeared from nowhere in PoA and was never seen again (thank goodness!).

Eggplant:
> my problem is in what they decided not to put on screen and in that they were the most incompetent. If the movie was 20 minutes longer it would have been great, and if they then just cut out the closing credits the total running time could have been the same.

Carol:
I agree that they needed twenty more minutes to get in the crucial plot elements, but I think that the closing credits are clever--and I almost never watch the credits. I'd have made my cuts elsewhere, and I'd have followed the book more closely, especially the Wolfbane Potion and the bedcurtain-slashing scene. 

Carol, who still wonders whether Cuaron actually read the books (does anyone know?)




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Wed Mar 18 02:37:34 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 02:37:34 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <gpp9bj+g5rn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gppmpe+rtkk@eGroups.com>

 
> Carol responds:
> I agree that sadness and anger are similar emotions, or maybe closely related emotions, but I think that many people (mostly men and boys and Harry in particular) express sadness *through* anger. (Book!Harry's reaction to Sirius Black's death in OoP is one example.) I agree that the line you quoted is in character, but I don't think that the tears are. And Dan Radcliffe at that point was starting to become a pretty good child actor, but he couldn't cry convincingly and I think it was a mistake to force him to attempt it.

Potioncat:
I paid particular attention at this part of the movie, because this complaint was made before. Honestly, it seemed to me that the crying noises had been dubbed later, and didn't even sound like Dan to me. So I was wondering if Dan/Harry was supposed to be crying in the first place.


 
> Carol again:
> As I said earlier, I do like the clock tower. But Tom the Barman had already been played by a different actor without any of the "Igor" nonsense, and toy trains have nothing to do with the story or with Lupin as a character or with DADA. Why the 1920s atmosphere? I don't see the need. Art for art's sake? And leave the shrunken heads with their Jamaican accents out of the film, please. (Again, as I said upthread, it's a matter of taste.)

Potioncat:
I thought the head on the bus was very funny--however, I thought the jokes and the entire bus scene took up too much time from the real plot. I really liked Stan in the movie. Does anyone remember seeing the actor at about the same time in "Master and Commander?...."(I've forgotten the rest of the title.) 

Tom as Igor! Very funny, because I kept thinking of "Young Frankenstein" alternating with Christopher Lloyd in "Addams Family" (Oh heck! What was that character's name!!!)







From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 18 03:00:03 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 03:00:03 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <gpp1g6+lt0d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gppo3j+p1sd@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "eggplant107" <eggplant107 at ...> wrote:

> Carol wrote a very interesting post:

>  toy trains, shrunken heads, or Tom the Barman.
 
 
> > I think you need to distinguish between stuff that isn't 
> > in the book from stuff that couldn't be in the book.


zanooda:

In the books shrunken heads are considered Dark Objects. They are sold in Knockturn Alley, and in HBP one such head was confiscated (as a Dark Object!!) from Crabbe (or Goyle?) when he attempted to bring it to school. So I would agree with Carol - I can't imagine those horrors hanging (and talking!!!!) at the Three Broomsticks or on the Knight Bus, sorry :-). 

Next, Tom the Barman certainly couldn't change this much in just two years :-), so this is also not something that "could" be in the book. What was the point of changing him? What was the point of changing Flitwick? Just to show how original he (Cuaron, not Flitwick :-)) was, I suppose :-). 

As for the toy trains - I didn't notice them much, somehow :-). They are OK, Carol, I guess. I don't think they are *really* electrical ... :-).


 







From willsonkmom at msn.com  Wed Mar 18 03:27:15 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 03:27:15 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION
In-Reply-To: <gpp5ol+cai6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gpppmj+ddo3@eGroups.com>

In ---002 Carol wrote:
> Carol responds:

> What's going on with the other guy (a student?) in pajamas and other,
> unrecognizable adults (faculty members who never appear anywhere in the
> books or the film???) after Snape and Dumbledore leave? Why isn't that
> patient still in the hospital wing, which is deserted except for Ron and
> their departing selves when Hermione and Harry return? 

Potioncat:
Were you able to slow that down to get that detail? I tried a couple of times, but haven't really had time to do it justice. I thought I saw Snape in the background. I wondered if they had filmed his hissy-fit or his conversation with Fudge then cut it. But I could never tell. 
 

 
> Cabal (md):
> >  Since Columbus did not address the Dudley clothes early-on it couldn't suddenly be an issue in the third film.

Potioncat:
Harry's clothing is too big and in bad shape when we see him in SS/PS. I don't recall noticing in CoS.
> 
> Carol responds:
 Where did it come from? Cuaron's imagination, apparently. It has nothing to do with the WW as JKR depicts it--and yet some of those details, including professors in Muggle clothes (Umbridge, anyone?) and Victrolas (McGonagall teaching the Gryffindors how to dance) are continued into later films.

Potioncat:
It's always bothered me that Cuaron changed so much--even the look of Hogwarts and the grounds, as well as the appearance of characters. Yet the next director said that he had to follow in step with the previous movie. I didn't see why he had to follow anyone but JKR. (Not sure where I got that quote...from a web site interview, I'm sure.) 

> 
> Carol:
 Apparently, Columbus et al. didn't want to follow JKR in having the kids wear only underwear under the robes, or they didn't know what they wore. (Columbus also had the robes indicate the different Houses through insignias. How the first years knew to buy the right robes is not addressed.) 

Potioncat:
In SS/PS the first years are wearing generic Hogwarts uniforms until after they are sorted. At that point the uniforms reflect their house. I thought that was pretty cool. But, I remember having a bad case of movie contamination when I read CoS. I couldn't understand why certain characters couldn't tell which house another one was in. I think it was a scene between Percy and Draco--or someone else when Harry and Ron were Polyjuiced.

 
> Carol earlier:
> <snip>(Can you link me to an article stating JKR's approval of that uncanonical and unnecessary addition to the story? Why not leave Stan and Ernie as they're written? BTW, the shrunken heads seem to me like an intrusion by the director into the scriptwriter's territory.

Potioncat:
I also seem to recall seeing a JKR interview in which she says something positive about the shrunken heads and I think about the toad chorus. I just love the toad chorus and song! So maybe the interview is on the DVD extras.
> 
> Cabal/md: 
 Either way, I'm certainly not lying, thanks for respecting that if I say I read something I'm not full of BS. <snip>

Potioncat:
Let me just add that it's a long standing tradition here to ask for the source of a quote. Not as a challenge, but to have the chance to read it as well.

Another long standing tradition is to discuss the quote and quibble over what JKR might have really intended to say, whether it was serious or off the cuff or dead wrong or being a team player. So I've made reference to a quote as well---hopiing I don't have to figure out where I saw or read it.



 
> Carol responds:
 (I didn'tn't care for the girly-girl comment about her hair, either--out of character for Hermione and the last thing she should have been thinking about. Again, it's just a matter of taste. You like it. I don't. 
 
Potioncat:
Someone at this site suggested that Hermione was really thinking "Is that what my butt looks like?, but just said 'hair' to hide her real concern. I couldn't tell you who suggested it, but I've never been able to watch that scene without thinking she really means butt. I guess it would be bum, though, wouldn't it?

 
> Cabal/md: 
> > The only thing I took issue with CGI is the werewolf looks nothing like man or beast, but some third bastard offshoot. Don't understand why? In the book they "ran" with him, but in the movie he's not very animal at all.

Potioncat:
Yeah, I kept wondering why Sirius couldn't control the werewolf, and why he doesn't turn into a werewolf at the next moon since he's clearly shown with injuries caused by the werewolf.

Potioncat who hopes she hasn't made too many errors at this late posting, and thanks Carol for quietly replacing a missing "s" because I thought about it hours after posting.





From willsonkmom at msn.com  Wed Mar 18 12:31:11 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:31:11 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <gppo3j+p1sd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gpqpif+qihu@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "eggplant107" <eggplant107@> wrote:
> 
> > Carol wrote a very interesting post:
> 
> >  toy trains, shrunken heads, or Tom the Barman.
>  
>  
> > > I think you need to distinguish between stuff that isn't 
> > > in the book from stuff that couldn't be in the book.
> 
> 
> zanooda:
> 
> In the books shrunken heads are considered Dark Objects. They are sold in Knockturn Alley, and in HBP one such head was confiscated (as a Dark Object!!) from Crabbe (or Goyle?) when he attempted to bring it to school. So I would agree with Carol - I can't imagine those horrors hanging (and talking!!!!) at the Three Broomsticks or on the Knight Bus, sorry :-).

Potioncat:
It dawned on me that the purpose of the heads at the Three Broomsticks was to keep Ron and Hermione out in order to keep the scene simpler. I wish they'd come up with a different idea. Afterall--why would Rosmerta keep out a castle full of customers on the one of the rare days the kids are in Hogsmeade? 


Zanooda: 
> 
> As for the toy trains - I didn't notice them much, somehow :-). They are OK, Carol, I guess. I don't think they are *really* electrical ... :-).

Potioncat:
This was the first time I noticed the train (was there more than one?). It was part of the elaborate solar-system looking time piece that Lupin had. It seemed in place to me, as part of the greater item. And the WW has the Hogwarts Express so trains would be a part of their culture.

Now, the chemistry set that Severus was rumored to have played with---not so sure about that. Unless of course, Tobias gave him one at Christmas one year.  ;-)






From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 18 15:50:49 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:50:49 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <gppmpe+rtkk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gpr58p+ree6@eGroups.com>

Potioncat:
> I paid particular attention at this part of the movie, because this complaint was made before. Honestly, it seemed to me that the crying noises had been dubbed later, and didn't even sound like Dan to me. So I was wondering if Dan/Harry was supposed to be crying in the first place.
> 
<snip>

Carol responds:

He had to have been, or Ron would have had no reason to want Hermione to stay back, and she'd have had no reason to gently remove the Invisibility Cloak. True, she xould have found him without the sobs just from his footprints, but what would he be doing just sitting out in the snow if not crying? I think the sobs, whether or not they're Dan's, were part of the script to begin with. (If they were dubbed, surely they'd get someone who can fake cry more convincingly?)

In the book, he just returns to Hogwarts unaware of what he's doing because his mind is racing (admittedly difficult to depict onscreen). Ron and Hermione are concerned about him because of what he's heard 9they heard it, too) and perhaps because he's pale or because of his facial expression and his silence. (Since the scene is written from Harry's pov, we can only guess what RH are thinking.)

Carol, who has to go get her car's oil changed and tires rotated





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 18 18:42:33 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 18:42:33 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <gppo3j+p1sd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gprfap+ug7e@eGroups.com>

zanooda wrote:
> 
> In the books shrunken heads are considered Dark Objects. They are sold in Knockturn Alley, and in HBP one such head was confiscated (as a Dark Object!!) from Crabbe (or Goyle?) when he attempted to bring it to school. So I would agree with Carol - I can't imagine those horrors hanging (and talking!!!!) at the Three Broomsticks or on the Knight Bus, sorry :-). 
> 
> Next, Tom the Barman certainly couldn't change this much in just two years :-), so this is also not something that "could" be in the book. What was the point of changing him? What was the point of changing Flitwick? Just to show how original he (Cuaron, not Flitwick :-)) was, I suppose :-). 

Carol responds:
Agreed on all counts.
> 
> As for the toy trains - I didn't notice them much, somehow :-). They are OK, Carol, I guess. I don't think they are *really* electrical ... :-).

Carol responds:

I agree that they're probably not electrical, but how is a filmgoer who hasn't read the books supposed to know that? It looks as if Wizards use candles (and Lumos) for lighting but electricity for (seemingly) electric trains and Victrolas, both Muggle inventions. The vintage "electric" train, the adult Wizard's clothes (with notable exceptions, such as DD and McGonagall) seems to date from approximately the same era, early twentieth century. (Snape's clothing looks vaguely like that of a nineteenth-century cleric). Essentially, the Witches and Wizards look like out-of-date Muggles with wands. The kids' modern Muggle clothes (I can't tell 1990s fashions from 2000s, but they wouldn't look out of place in a shopping mall today) don't fit with anything in either the books or the earlier filmas. Maybe the idea was to help young viewers relate to the Wizarding kids, but that was never a problem regardless of how HRH and their contemporaries dressed.

Again, I can live with the school uniforms, with Hermione in a pleated skirt and the boys in trousers (I'd say "pants," but that word has the wrong connotation for British listees) during non-school hours, but to suddenly introduce modern Muggle clothing for kids who didn't wear them in previous films, especially kids like Draco whose parents look down on Muggles, is just annoying. To me, that is. I realize that not everyone shares my views and that you can't argue feelings or emotional reactions.

Carol, who enjoyed rewatching PoA even though the same old flaws (IMO), gaps, and inconsistencies jumped out at her yet again this time around





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 18 19:23:48 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 19:23:48 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION
In-Reply-To: <gpppmj+ddo3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gprho4+9s35@eGroups.com>

Carol earlier:
> 
> > What's going on with the other guy (a student?) in pajamas and other, unrecognizable adults (faculty members who never appear anywhere in the books or the film???) after Snape and Dumbledore leave? Why isn't that patient still in the hospital wing, which is deserted except for Ron and their departing selves when Hermione and Harry return? 
> 
> Potioncat:
> Were you able to slow that down to get that detail? I tried a couple of times, but haven't really had time to do it justice. I thought I saw Snape in the background. I wondered if they had filmed his hissy-fit or his conversation with Fudge then cut it. But I could never tell. 

Carol:
I can't tell what's going on, but I recognize Snape, DD, Madam Pomfrey, and (I think) McGonagall hovering around what appears to be Ron's bedside. Since the kids end up in the hospital wing (and Black ends up in "the top floor of the dark tower," if I heard correctly), it seems clear that Snape brought them all in, with or without help. (Later, we see that Hermione's scratches and Ron's leg have been treated, and Harry is conscious, so they must have been treated as Snape talked to DD about the Patronus and the Dementors--and, presumably, the werewolf and Black. We can only guess that DD, as in the book, also got Sirius Black's version of events. If he had only Snape's--which, to Snape, is the full truth--he wouldn't have listened to the "three thirteen-year-old Wizards"--who, of course, don't provide any kind of plausible or coherent tale.) Anyway, there's no hissy fit and there are no stretchers, just adults busily moving around what looks like Ron's hospital bed. And then there's a whole set of new characters, including someone in pajamas, that have nothing to do with the story and which, presumably, represent routine hospital-wing business that goes on after DD, Snape, and (I think) McGonagall have left.

I don't have the best DVD player in the world, so someone else may have seen more details.
 
> Potioncat:
> It's always bothered me that Cuaron changed so much--even the look of Hogwarts and the grounds, as well as the appearance of characters. Yet the next director said that he had to follow in step with the previous movie. I didn't see why he had to follow anyone but JKR. (Not sure where I got that quote...from a web site interview, I'm sure.)

Carol:
I agree--though I don't mind the changes to Hagrid's house and grounds. The pumpkin patch, at least, is consistent with the book, and the hut is still on the edge of the so-called Dark Forest as it was in CoS. (Or was it actually inside the forest in the CoS film?) I can think of only two reasons why the next director, Mike Newell, would "have to" follow Cuaron's lead: to save money by using existing sets or to use the Cuaron sets because they conformed more closely to the books than Columbus's did. We could probably Google that quote, which, presumably, is archived on Leaky somewhere, to find out why he said that.
> 
Carol earlier:
>  Apparently, Columbus et al. didn't want to follow JKR in having the kids wear only underwear under the robes, or they didn't know what they wore. (Columbus also had the robes indicate the different Houses through insignias. How the first years knew to buy the right robes is not addressed.) 
> 
> Potioncat:
> In SS/PS the first years are wearing generic Hogwarts uniforms until after they are sorted. At that point the uniforms reflect their house. I thought that was pretty cool. <snip>

Carol:
A magical effect? I didn't notice that! Thanks.


> Potioncat:
> I also seem to recall seeing a JKR interview in which she says something positive about the shrunken heads and I think about the toad chorus. I just love the toad chorus and song! So maybe the interview is on the DVD extras.

Carol responds:
I just checked Disc 2 and it does contain and interview with JKR and the filmmakers (as well as numerous "head-to-shrunken-head interviews with other people that I don't care to subject myself to). It also contains lots of games, behind-the-scenes stuff, and deleted scenes (apparently from Trelawney's Divination class). I suppose I should watch the parts that are tolerable, but I almost never bother with Disc 2!

Cabal/md: 
> > > The only thing I took issue with CGI is the werewolf looks nothing like man or beast, but some third bastard offshoot. Don't understand why? In the book they "ran" with him, but in the movie he's not very animal at all.
> 
> Potioncat:
> Yeah, I kept wondering why Sirius couldn't control the werewolf, and why he doesn't turn into a werewolf at the next moon since he's clearly shown with injuries caused by the werewolf.

Carol responds:
Apparently, Wormtails' brief reference to a potion that Remus forgot to take is supposed to cover that problem. Lupin has been incapacitated once and sick or weak fairly often, but apparently the mysterious potion either prevents him from turning into a werewolf or renders him harmless, as in the books. (Apparently, we're supposed to think that he took it even as a student since there's no reference to WPP running with a werewolf as students, only the hint that young Remus couldn't see any "beauty" or goodness in himself though the angelic Lily could. I suppose that we're also supposed to figure out that Snape, as Potions master, would brew the potion and that's why he was following Lupin and knew to enter the Shrieking Shack--much too quickly in the Time-Turned scene since Lupin has quite a bit of dialogue before Snape bursts in, apparently having heard none of it, whereas in the book, we can tell exactly when he arrives and how much he does--and doesn't--overhear.) 

Potioncat: 
> Potioncat who hopes she hasn't made too many errors at this late posting, and thanks Carol for quietly replacing a missing "s" because I thought about it hours after posting.

Carol:
You're welcome. I sneaked it in hoping that no one would notice!

Carol, waiting for the car repair people to call and tell her that her car is ready to drive home
>





From montavilla47 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 18 22:54:22 2009
From: montavilla47 at yahoo.com (montavilla47)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:54:22 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSION
In-Reply-To: <gpm6su+766s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gpru2u+25s4@eGroups.com>

Montavilla47:
Thanks for the questions!  I'm answering before reading the other posts, so I apologize in advance if I end up simply repeating everyone else.


> 1. We have a new director for movie 3. Did you know of his work before? How do you think he did on this movie? Do you think he read any of the HP books? 

I hadn't seen any of Cuaron's films before (unless he directed the Devil's.. Backbone?)  I think PoA is the best of the films so far.  I think he did an amazing job.  I don't know if he read any of the other books, or saw any of the other movies, but I don't think it matters that much.

> 2. John Williams wrote this music, as he did for the 1st two. What did you think of it? Any favorite tunes from this movie?

I think that the music is wonderful.  It's the only score that I would really want to have all on its own--well, except for GoF, which is by my favorite film composer, Patrick Doyle,

> 3. What do you think of PoA as a stand-alone movie?

A very good fantasy film.  Most of the effects are really well done (there's a little wierdness that I recall in a Hagrid shot--forget where.)  The story is excellent and everything really hangs together as a film.



> 4. The opening scene, with the somber music and Warner's symbol in a worn gray seemed to set a dark tone to this movie. What did you think of the sudden switch to the scene of Harry practicing magic and Vernon trying to catch him? What did you think of the movie's mix of darkness and humor?

I liked that scene.  I think it drew in the viewer because it was a recognizable situation.  Kid playing around in his bedroom, pretending to be asleep.  Father-figure comes in, trying to catch him at being naughty.... goes away frustrated.  Very fun.


> 5. Practicing magic over the summer? How many un-canonical scenes can you identify in this movie?  That is, a scene that contradicts canon, as opposed to noncanonical scenes that are additions? Count them too, if you like. Or just comment on the more glaring ones. Did you like the changes, or not?

To be fair, the book starts by talking about how Harry LIKED to do his homework.  :)

> 7. What about the changes to familiar characters like Tom of the Leaky Cauldron, or Professor Flitwick or the Fat Lady? Or the changes to costumes--even Arthur looked like a Muggle! Did the changes work?

Someone pointed out (here or another forum) that the Tom of film!PoA is actually closer to the actual description of the character than Tom of PS/SS.

The changes to Flitwick were jarring, because we'd seen him in a film before.  On the other hand, I actually like the new Flitwick much better.  I thought the PS/SS make-up was really atrocious.  

I liked both Fat Ladies, but it's always a plus to have Dawn French!

Um.  Yes.  The costumes worked really well for me.  Except for Rosemerta's costume.  That one was just odd.

> 8. Lupin's description of Lily created a lot of comment at main. Now that we've read all the books, was movie!Lupin correct? Do you think Snape would agree with Lupin's opinion of Lily?

I think Snape would probably agree with Lupin.  But I think Lupin was overstating
Lily's ability to look beyond the faults of her friends.


> 9. Harry tells Lupin he's used a memory of his parents talking to him, and says something like, "I don't even know if it's real." Does that remind you of anything?

Sorry, no.  But I liked that scene a lot.  I thought it improved on the original.

> 10. For the first time I heard Hermione say something along the line of "I heard Snape telling DD that it would take a powerful wizard to conjure that Patronus." Where was Snape supposed to be that he saw the Patronus? Did anyone catch sight of him in the "rewinding of time" when Hermione and Harry used the TT to go back.

I don't remember seeing him.  I tried going back very slowly through that sequence a
couple times and it never makes much sense.  Although, it's pretty funny!


> 11. We get an abbreviated version of the Marauders, and only a touch on the Snape/Marauder animosity during this movie. How do you think that will play out in later movies?

I don't think it's going to come very much into play.  The time to fix it--if it needed
fixing--was in OotP and it didn't happen there.

> 12. Do you think the newer movies will have to explain the Patronus again? Will it be clear that a Patronus is an animal shape?

The animal-patronus connection was pretty clear, I thought, in OotP, when the DA
cast a bunch of them.
  
> 13. Buckbeak attacks Lupin in the movie.  Do you think the movie will repeat that action in HBP when he should attack Snape?

I kind of doubt it, since it only makes sense if you bother to bring Buckbeak (or 
"Witherwings") back.  And why bother for a throwaway moment like that?
 
> 14. There were lots of clocks in this movie, Lupin's solar system, his floating time candles in the shape of spines, the pendulum, the clock and its gears in a tower. Do you think Cuaron thought the time turning sequence was the crux of the movie?

That makes sense to me.  And don't forget the turning of the seasons through
the Whomping Willow!


> 15. There are lots of special effects in this movie--Aunt Marge, Dementors, and the werewolf, to name a few. Did you like the way they were done? Were the Dementors and their effect what you expected? 

I thought the Dementors were pretty darn cool, especially in the train scene.

> 16. Any scenes in particular that you'd like to discuss? Was anything missing from the movie? Did the plot make sense? Was anything better in the movie than the book?

There's one thing, plotwise, that cracks me up in the film.  When Harry is 
spying on the adults telling Rosemerta about Sirius, Rosemerta exclaims with
horror about Sirius betraying the Potters.  "But wait!" McGonagall says, "It's worse!"

"What could be worse?"

We wait with baited breath along with Harry....

"Sirius was... as is to this day... Harry Potter's GODFATHER!"

Dun dun DUN!

I can't for the life of me figure out how being his godfather is worse than
killing his parents.

> 17. And the first question that really just popped into my head--Did anyone ever say who the manufacturers of the map were? Did we ever get the nicknames?

We hear the names, but we never get the connection.  This seems to be a 
problem when you've read the books... but I don't think it really matters 
in the film world.







From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 18 23:11:29 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 23:11:29 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <gpqpif+qihu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gprv31+81vt@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:

> > --- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2@> wrote:

> > In the books shrunken heads are considered Dark Objects.


> It dawned on me that the purpose of the heads at the Three 
> Broomsticks was to keep Ron and Hermione out in order to 
> keep the scene simpler. I wish they'd come up with a different 
> idea.


zanooda:

Here is an idea: Fudge, Rosmerta and the teachers were talking in some kind of private room upstairs, right? They were not in the bar with the rest of the customers, like in the book. So the kids could have come into the bar together, but only Harry would be able to sneak into that private parlor to eavesdrop, because he was under the Cloak :-). 

And what's their excuse for the head on the bus? I suppose it's just me, but I always close my eyes when they show it. It looks unbearably disgusting and scary to me. Yuck!
 

> Potioncat:

> Now, the chemistry set that Severus was rumored to have played 
> with---not so sure about that. Unless of course, Tobias gave him 
> one at Christmas one year.  


zanooda:

Little Severus could get a chemistry set from his father, I guess (although Tobias doesn't seem the type :-)), but it was Sirius who said something like "Go play with your chemistry set", and I'm not sure that Sirius would even know what "chemistry" is :-).





From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 18 23:29:25 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 23:29:25 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <gprfap+ug7e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gps04l+u2f0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:


> I agree that they're probably not electrical, but how is a 
> filmgoer who hasn't read the books supposed to know that? 


Oh, right :-)! I always forget about those folks and look at things from the point of view of someone who read the books a hundred times :-). And I really need to watch the movie again to find out what you are talking about :-). I honestly don't remember the trains :-).


zanooda




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 18 23:41:46 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 23:41:46 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <gps04l+u2f0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gps0rq+aadd@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67@> wrote:
> 
> 
> > I agree that they're probably not electrical, but how is a 
> > filmgoer who hasn't read the books supposed to know that? 
> 
> 
> Oh, right :-)! I always forget about those folks and look at things from the point of view of someone who read the books a hundred times :-). And I really need to watch the movie again to find out what you are talking about :-). I honestly don't remember the trains :-).
> 
> 
> zanooda
>
Carol responds:
Actually, it's probably just one train, Lupin's toy, apparently. IIRC, it's in the same scene with the spine candles and the dragon skeleton that we remember from CoS (evidently it was repaired after the Cornish pixies demolished it) right before the lesson on the Patronus Charm (which Harry masters rather more easily and quickly than he did in the book).

BTW, any thoughts as to why Lupin (in both the film and the book) rode the Hogwarts Express (unlike any other teacher till Slughorn)? He couldn't have anticipated a Dementor attack, but maybe DD stationed him there in case Sirius Black tried to get on board to kill Harry? Obviously, DD must have paid his way given his financial state. Or was it just coincidence--he was too tired and ill to Apparate (despite the full moon cycle, which can't have a full moon on both August 31 (the night before September 1) and October 31 (Halloween, when we know from the book that he transforms).

Carol, wondering why Lupin would have a toy train of any sort (or a Victrola)




From montavilla47 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 18 23:44:39 2009
From: montavilla47 at yahoo.com (montavilla47)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 23:44:39 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION
In-Reply-To: <gpog0l+h93r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gps117+btcf@eGroups.com>

> Cabal: 
> > Rowling loved the shrunken head and the inclusion of the clock-tower (not in the book) so it's her world, I accept any change / addition so long as she's on board and she was.
> 
> Carol responds:
> I have no complaint about the clock tower, which was an effective addition. And even if JKR accepted the shrunken heads, for some fans, including me, they're a distracting and *un-English* intrusion into JKR's world. (Yes, I know that Hogwarts is in Scotland, but most of the teachers and students are English.)


Montavilla47:

Um.  But shrunken heads aren't "un-English."  They are a magical item from the
Caribbean, which was partially colonized by the English and very much part of the
British Empire.

Which reminds me about something I really, *really* liked about PoA--that he
included people of color in his cast.  I remember kind of wondering where 
Angela Johnson was the film of PS/SS, because I didn't see anyone who looked
dark-skinned.  Also, it seemed like there were two many boys on the Quidditch
team in PS/SS.  The girl who was identified as Angela looked white to me.  I've
watched it since and I can't really tell if she's white or very light-skinned, but
it always bugged me a little.

Then, when you look at the kids in PoA, you get a much more diverse palette.
There are the Patel twins!  And you  *two* black boys.  Thomas is no longer the 
only black kid in school!

JKR's endorsement of the shrunken heads appears in the DVD extras.  She gives
a joint interview with Cuaron and says that she wishes she'd thought of them.

.... Incidentally, I don't much care for them either.  Or the whole Knight Bus
sequence.  But that's because I read the books and I'm impatient for the 
plot to begin.  For the same reason, I could do without that extended 
"Monster Book" sequence.

> Cabal: 
> > I thought Cuaron made the time-turner ending work in ways the book didn't, it begs you to watch a second time. 
> > 
> Carol responds:
<snip>
> Do you have any specific complaints about the way the scene was written and any specific improvements to note in the filming? (The rock throwing seems pointless to me. Hermione knows that they left. Also, the Patronus is not clearly the same as the shining stag, which doesn't return to Harry as in the book. I think that a filmgoer would be confused and think that the Patronus is just a shining light shield.) 


Montavilla47:

The rock throwing thing is vital, because Future!Hermione has seen that 
Past!Hermione (and Ron and Harry), aren't leaving Hagrid's hut as they are
supposed to do.  So, she throws the rock to alert them that the Minister is
on his way.

It links what she and Harry are doing to what happened earlier--and makes
the time turning most important to the plot--which just makes it better.

I remember finding the time-turning part of the book really confusing--
especially the stuff about where Hermione and Harry were during the 
Dementor attack and how that worked and how it was that Buckbeak
didn't die the first time round.   I thought the whole concept was better 
in the film.


> Cabal: 
> > The only complaints I ever hear about POA are from book fans, where I think the one film to complain about from the POV of  book fan is GOF, that's the butcher job! <snip>
> 
> Carol responds:
> Book fans are the ones who know what's missing! I do wonder, though, whether people who didn't read the books were confused by some of the details, including the glitch with the Dementor Boggart, which is or ought to be evident to any viewer. (Huh? Lupin *saw* the Dementor Boggart. How could he think it would turn into Lord Voldemort?)

Montavilla47:

We see the boggart turn into a bunch of things.  I don't see why it couldn't turn
into Lord Voldemort after being a Dementor.  Even in the books, the boggart
turns into all the Weasleys just for Molly.  

I'm not saying that's not a plothole.  But it's different watching a movie than
reading a book and the brain doesn't have time to ask as many questions.  

I was listening to the commentary on "My Cousin Vinny" and the director 
mentions this plot hole that terrified him:  Why does the kid's mother send
Vinny down to rescue her son, but not bother to show up herself?  He filmed
scenes explaining why she doesn't go herself, but no one in the audience
ever did question it.  A lot of films will break down if you apply basic
logic.  Most people turn logic off if they are enjoying a film.

But, of course, one major problem with enjoying a book adaptation
is when the story veers away from the book.  So, I completely understand
why this plot hole bugs you.





From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 19 02:53:08 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 02:53:08 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <gps0rq+aadd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gpsc2k+3gfp@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:


> BTW, any thoughts as to why Lupin (in both the film and the book) 
> rode the Hogwarts Express (unlike any other teacher till Slughorn)? 


zanooda:

Maybe DD knew that the train was supposed to be searched by Dementors, so he asked Lupin to be there just in case? You know, in case some of the kids get sick after the contact with a Dementor (Lupin had chocolate with him, maybe for this reason), or in case Dementors get out of control, or something like that. He didn't trust Dementors, Dumbledore :-).

After all this talking about going-back-in-time :-), I have a question as well. How come Lupin didn't see back-in-time!Harry and Hermione on the Map? He says he watched the Trio go to Hagrid's and then waited for them to come out, which means he was looking at the Map all the time. 

Back-in-time!Harry and Hermione also came to Hagrid's cabin and were hiding outside. How could Lupin not notice that there were two Harrys and two Hermiones on the Map? Does it mean that the Map can't show back-in-time!people? 





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 19 16:57:40 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:57:40 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION
In-Reply-To: <gps117+btcf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gptti4+3bgn@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "montavilla47" <montavilla47 at ...> wrote:
>
> > Cabal: 
> > > Rowling loved the shrunken head and the inclusion of the clock-tower (not in the book) so it's her world, I accept any change / addition so long as she's on board and she was.
> > 
> > Carol responds:
> > I have no complaint about the clock tower, which was an effective addition. And even if JKR accepted the shrunken heads, for some fans, including me, they're a distracting and *un-English* intrusion into JKR's world. (Yes, I know that Hogwarts is in Scotland, but most of the teachers and students are English.)
> 
> 
> Montavilla47:
> 
> Um.  But shrunken heads aren't "un-English."  They are a magical item from the Caribbean, which was partially colonized by the English and very much part of the British Empire.

Carol responds:
Caribbean culture may have a few British elements, but it's chiefly African. Other influences are Spanish and Native American. The result is a culture like no other--and certainly like nothing native to the British Isles. We might as well say that Inuit culture is English  because Canada (where some of the Inuit live) is part of the British Empire. By that sort of logic, any nation or region that was colonized by Britain could be considered English. we might as well say that Iroquois and Zulu customs are English, too, and be done with it.

At any rate, the (silent and sinister) shrunken heads in Borgin and Burkes have no relation to the smart-mouthed, Jamaican-accented heads in the PoA film. Consider them "English" if you like, or part of a more extensive WW than is depicted in the books and films, but also think about what shrunken heads really are and why they were made--the heads of dead enemies to capture their spirits. Dark objects with no element of comedy, IMO.

In any case, the Jamaicans (who did and sometimes still do practice folk magic) never made shrunken heads. They were made by warlike Native American tribes in Ecuador and Peru, neither of which was part of the British Empire at any time.

Montavilla 47:
> JKR's endorsement of the shrunken heads appears in the DVD extras.  She gives a joint interview with Cuaron and says that she wishes she'd thought of them.

Carol responds:
What can I say? She *did* think of shrunken heads and placed them where they belong, among the Dark objects sold by Borgin and Burkes. Comic shrunken heads speaking in Jamaican accents would have been out of place in the books--as they are, IMO, in the PoA film. (Notice that none of the other directors followed Cuaron's lead in including them.)

Montavilla47: 
> .... Incidentally, I don't much care for them either.  Or the whole Knight Bus sequence.

Carol:
I thought that Stan Shunpike's role was well cast, well written, and well acted. It was odd, though, to see him struggling with Harry's trunk like a Muggle! The part with the Knight Bus being squeezed between two Muggle buses wasn't exactly canonical, but it fit reasonably well with the way the that MoM cars managed to Magic themselves to the front of a line of traffic. And, fortunately, we didn't have any other stops (or a carsick Madam Marsh) to delay the story. IOW, I would have liked the Knight Bus sequence if it hadn't been for the shrunken head and Cuaron's sense of humor (which, clearly, has little resemblance to mine).

Montavilla47:
  But that's because I read the books and I'm impatient for the plot to begin.  For the same reason, I could do without that extended "Monster Book" sequence.

Carol:
I suppose the Monster Book of Monsters sequence serves a small purpose, setting up more slapstick humor when Neville doesn't hear the part about stroking them. But I agree; it serves no real plot purpose in either the book or the film (except to illustrate Hagrid's incompetence as a teacher and fuel the inimical relationship between him and Draco). I suppose that Cuaron thought it was funny, but the time would have been better spent developing elements necessary to the plot.

> Montavilla47:
> 
> The rock throwing thing is vital, because Future!Hermione has seen that Past!Hermione (and Ron and Harry), aren't leaving Hagrid's hut as they are supposed to do.  So, she throws the rock to alert them that the Minister is on his way.
> 
> It links what she and Harry are doing to what happened earlier--and makes the time turning most important to the plot--which just makes it better.

Carol responds:
The way I understand it, the Time-Turning *always* happened. It didn't change anything; it just made things turn out as they did in terms of the rescue of Buckbeak and Black. But I don't think that the rocks made HRH move or alerted them that the Minister and executioner were coming. Hermione *knows* that they left or she wouldn't be where she is. (You like it. I see it as superfluous.)

Montavilla47: 
> I remember finding the time-turning part of the book really confusing--especially the stuff about where Hermione and Harry were during the Dementor attack and how that worked and how it was that Buckbeak didn't die the first time round. I thought the whole concept was better in the film.

Carol:
I agree that the book was confusing the first time around, but it made sense to me the second time since I understood that Buckbeak never died. They only thought he did, but Harry and Hermione had already saved him.
 
> Montavilla47:
> 
> We see the boggart turn into a bunch of things.  I don't see why it couldn't turn into Lord Voldemort after being a Dementor.  Even in the books, the boggart turns into all the Weasleys just for Molly. 

Carol:
But it turns into a Dementor as Harry steps up for his turn. It's clear that the Dementor is *his* Boggart--and we see later that it is. I just think it's an annoying glitch--and probably confusing for viewers who haven't read the books. And it makes Lupin look either blind or stupid. (How could he not see that Dementor and know that it, not Voldemort, was Harry's Boggart? Now if he'd realized that that particular Boggart was *just as terrifying* as Voldemort, at least to Harry, and would require more than a Riddikulus spell to tame, his reaction would make sense. But the first scene doesn't fit with the second.)

Montavilla47: 
> I'm not saying that's not a plothole.  But it's different watching a movie than reading a book and the brain doesn't have time to ask as many questions.  

Carol:
Not a plothole, just an inconsistency that filmgoers who pay attention to details would notice (unless he or she has read the book, knows that Harry's Boggart is a Dementor, and ignores or is unbothered by the illogic and inconsistency of Lupin's behavior). I noticed it even though I'd read the books, and I think that viewers who haven't read the books would notice it, too, and be confused. How can Lupin think that Harry's Boggart would be Lord Voldemort when his eyes tell him otherwise? It makes no sense.
>
Montavilla47:
  Most people turn logic off if they are enjoying a film.

Carol:
Do they? Maybe that's why I'm not a film fan!

Montavilla47: 
> But, of course, one major problem with enjoying a book adaptation is when the story veers away from the book.  So, I completely understand why this plot hole bugs you.

Carol:
Well, it's not really a plot hole, unlike the question of how Lupin knows what the Marauder's Map is and how to work it or the badly botched matter of his potion. It's just a glitch. Lupin is neither blind nor stupid, and if he saw the Dementor Boggart, as he did in the film before Banishing it, he simply could not have thought that it would turn into Lord Voldemort. Besides, he had *seen* Harry's reaction to a real Dementor with his own eyes--not just the normal terror and loss of cheerfulness and cold but catatonia. His reaction in the film makes no sense.

Carol, who probably tries too hard to impose logic on everything





From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 19 17:28:45 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 17:28:45 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <gpsc2k+3gfp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gptvcd+r9c6@eGroups.com>

Carol earlier:
> > BTW, any thoughts as to why Lupin (in both the film and the book) rode the Hogwarts Express (unlike any other teacher till Slughorn)? 
> 
> 
> zanooda:
> 
> Maybe DD knew that the train was supposed to be searched by Dementors, so he asked Lupin to be there just in case? You know, in case some of the kids get sick after the contact with a Dementor (Lupin had chocolate with him, maybe for this reason), or in case Dementors get out of control, or something like that. He didn't trust Dementors, Dumbledore :-).

Carol responds:
That makes sense. He knew that the MoM was stationing Dementors at all the entrances to the Hogwarts grounds, so he probably anticipated that they'd search the train, too.

Zanooda:> 
> After all this talking about going-back-in-time :-), I have a question as well. How come Lupin didn't see back-in-time!Harry and Hermione on the Map? He says he watched the Trio go to Hagrid's and then waited for them to come out, which means he was looking at the Map all the time. 
> 
> Back-in-time!Harry and Hermione also came to Hagrid's cabin and were hiding outside. How could Lupin not notice that there were two Harrys and two Hermiones on the Map? Does it mean that the Map can't show back-in-time!people?
>
Carol responds:
I know we've discussed this problem on the main list. In the book, he also watches them enter Hagrid's hut and waits for them to come out. Apparently, the inside of Hagrid's hut doesn't show up on the map or Lupin would have known that Pettigrew was there. In the book, he sees that Pettigrew is with them but it doesn't occur to him that Pettigrew is Ron's pet rat; he thinks that the map is malfunctioning until he sees Sirius coming at Ron and Sirius, Ron, and Pettigrew entering the tunnel together. Then he runs out without his potion. Apparently, he's too focused on Pettigrew to think about anything else.

As for why he didn't see TT!Harry and Hermione when they were in the forest, maybe he wasn't looking at that part of the map. (They didn't enter Hagrid's pumpkin patch until after HRH had left Hagrid's hut, going the opposite direction.) Lupin probably just followed HRH's dots to and from Hagrid's front door adn from there to the Whomping Willow and wasn't looking anywhere else. He didn't see Snape coming toward his office with the potion, either, apparently.

Carol, who thinks it's possible (though just barely) to figure out a logical explanation in this instance




From md at exit-reality.com  Thu Mar 19 20:41:17 2009
From: md at exit-reality.com (Nightbreed)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:41:17 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <gptvcd+r9c6@eGroups.com>
References: <gpsc2k+3gfp@eGroups.com> <gptvcd+r9c6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c9a8d3$0dbbd830$29338890$@com>

I always figured it was because Lupin is poor, can't afford a broom, can't
apparate into Hogwarts. 

 

md

 

From: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Carol
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:29 PM
To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.

 

Carol earlier:
> > BTW, any thoughts as to why Lupin (in both the film and the book) rode
the Hogwarts Express (unlike any other teacher till Slughorn)? 
> 
> 
> zanooda:
> 
> Maybe DD knew that the train was supposed to be searched by Dementors, so
he asked Lupin to be there just in case? You know, in case some of the kids
get sick after the contact with a Dementor (Lupin had chocolate with him,
maybe for this reason), or in case Dementors get out of control, or
something like that. He didn't trust Dementors, Dumbledore :-).

Carol responds:
That makes sense. He knew that the MoM was stationing Dementors at all the
entrances to the Hogwarts grounds, so he probably anticipated that they'd
search the train, too.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 20 01:05:24 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 01:05:24 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <000f01c9a8d3$0dbbd830$29338890$@com>
Message-ID: <gpuq4k+emnt@eGroups.com>

Cabal/md wrote:
>
> I always figured it was because Lupin is poor, can't afford a broom, can't apparate into Hogwarts. 

Carol responds:
 I thought about that, but I'm not sure that the Hogwarts Express ride is free. Hagrid gives Harry his ticket the first year, IIRC, but it's true that we never see the kids present their tickets to anyone. 

At any rate, Lupin could have Apparated to the Hogwarts gate, suitcase and all, unless he was too ill. He'd have encountered a Dementor there, of course, but so would all the other teachers arriving from their summer homes. 

As for being unable to afford a broom, he wouldn't need a racing broom. Any old second-hand broom would get him there. It wouldn't be as comfortable as a train ride, though!

I still think that DD wanted the DADA teacher on the train for some reason.

Carol, wondering whether Lupin chose the last compartment on the train expecting to find Harry there--or just hoping to sleep unobserved





From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 20 03:07:13 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 03:07:13 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <000f01c9a8d3$0dbbd830$29338890$@com>
Message-ID: <gpv191+75v9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Nightbreed" <md at ...> wrote:

> I always figured it was because Lupin is poor, can't afford a 
> broom, can't apparate into Hogwarts. 


zanooda:

Right, not into Hogwarts, but he can Apparate to the gates, can't he :-)? Or he can use the Floo network to get to Hogsmead and then walk to the school. Maybe he was too weak to meet Dementors in big numbers at the school entrance, if he traveled alone? 

OTOH, he left the school at the end of the book also by a carriage, IIRC, which is more difficult to explain, because Dementors were not there anymore. I would guess he was not strong enough to go through Apparition, because it is rather challenging physically, but he did it all right in DH, so I don't know what to think :-).




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Fri Mar 20 02:30:44 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 02:30:44 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <gptvcd+r9c6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gpuv4k+ei3l@eGroups.com>

Carol: 
> As for why he didn't see TT!Harry and Hermione when they were in the forest, maybe he wasn't looking at that part of the map. (They didn't enter Hagrid's pumpkin patch until after HRH had left Hagrid's hut, going the opposite direction.) Lupin probably just followed HRH's dots to and from Hagrid's front door adn from there to the Whomping Willow and wasn't looking anywhere else. He didn't see Snape coming toward his office with the potion, either, apparently.
> 
> Carol, who thinks it's possible (though just barely) to figure out a logical explanation in this instance


Potioncat:
I thought that only Hogwarts proper was on the map. So Hagrid's hut and the forest would not show up. I'm trying to remember if TTHarry and TT Hermione were in the castle at the same time as Harry and Hermione.







From md at exit-reality.com  Fri Mar 20 05:48:29 2009
From: md at exit-reality.com (Nightbreed)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 01:48:29 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <gpv191+75v9@eGroups.com>
References: <000f01c9a8d3$0dbbd830$29338890$@com> <gpv191+75v9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001301c9a91f$7ee6e030$7cb4a090$@com>

It's possible he just doesn't care to fly (see, Hermione) and it's also
possible that apparating isn't his thing as not all wizards are good at all
things. After all, if wizards could just apparate all the time why use
brooms and floo networks at all? Just as well, the parents  could
side-along-apparte their children to the Hogwarts gates, or use the floo
network.

 

The real question is, why have the train at all? Because JKR was on a train
when she thought of the book in the first place, because the entire idea was
based around a boy going to a wizard school by train. But, logically with
brooms, floo & apparition the entire idea of a train seems pointless unless
you unbalance the powers and preferences of the wizards. 

 

Maybe it just says a lot about Lupin's character, his un-flashiness, his
simplicity that he chooses less magical modes of transportation.

 

md

 

From: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of zanooda2
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:07 PM
To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.

 

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com <mailto:HPFGU-Movie%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Nightbreed" <md at ...> wrote:

> I always figured it was because Lupin is poor, can't afford a 
> broom, can't apparate into Hogwarts. 

zanooda:

Right, not into Hogwarts, but he can Apparate to the gates, can't he :-)? Or
he can use the Floo network to get to Hogsmead and then walk to the school.
Maybe he was too weak to meet Dementors in big numbers at the school
entrance, if he traveled alone? 

OTOH, he left the school at the end of the book also by a carriage, IIRC,
which is more difficult to explain, because Dementors were not there
anymore. I would guess he was not strong enough to go through Apparition,
because it is rather challenging physically, but he did it all right in DH,
so I don't know what to think :-).





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From captainjackswomen at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 20 07:08:54 2009
From: captainjackswomen at yahoo.com (Lady of Imladris)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 00:08:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <gpuq4k+emnt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <371610.88263.qm@web59806.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


And or DD could have wanted Lupin there to protect the kids
during the attack, I mean DD had his way of knowings things. 


Love,
Red


--- On Thu, 3/19/09, Carol <justcarol67 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Carol <justcarol67 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
> To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 6:05 PM
> Cabal/md wrote:
> >
> > I always figured it was because Lupin is poor,
> can't afford a broom, can't apparate into Hogwarts. 
> 
> Carol responds:
>  I thought about that, but I'm not sure that the
> Hogwarts Express ride is free. Hagrid gives Harry his ticket
> the first year, IIRC, but it's true that we never see
> the kids present their tickets to anyone. 
> 
> At any rate, Lupin could have Apparated to the Hogwarts
> gate, suitcase and all, unless he was too ill. He'd have
> encountered a Dementor there, of course, but so would all
> the other teachers arriving from their summer homes. 
> 
> As for being unable to afford a broom, he wouldn't need
> a racing broom. Any old second-hand broom would get him
> there. It wouldn't be as comfortable as a train ride,
> though!
> 
> I still think that DD wanted the DADA teacher on the train
> for some reason.
> 
> Carol, wondering whether Lupin chose the last compartment
> on the train expecting to find Harry there--or just hoping
> to sleep unobserved
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> 
> Remember to snip unnecessary material from posts to which
> you're replying!
> 
> Any questions or problems - contact the List Elves at
> HPforGrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

      




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 20 03:54:41 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 03:54:41 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <gpuq4k+emnt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gpv421+l0l7@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

> At any rate, Lupin could have Apparated to the Hogwarts gate, 
> suitcase and all, unless he was too ill. He'd have encountered 
> a Dementor there, of course, but so would all the other teachers 
> arriving from their summer homes. 



I wrote a similar response some three hours ago, but it mysteriously disappeared :-). Basically, I wrote the same thing - Lupin could Apparate to the gate or to Hogsmeade, or he could use the Floo network to get to Hogsmeade and walk up to the school. Then I thought that maybe there were many Dementors guarding the gate, and Lupin felt too weak to meet them alone. 

But then I remembered that Lupin left Hogwarts at the end of the book also on a carriage, even though Dementors were already removed from the gates. Why didn't he Apparate then? Maybe Lupin was too weak to Apparate, because Apparition seems to be rather challenging physically. OTOH, he Apparated all right in DH, so once more I don't know what to think :-).


zanooda, pretty sure that the Hogwarts Express ride is free ...




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 20 06:38:33 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 06:38:33 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <gpuv4k+ei3l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gpvdl9+7n2n@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:

> I thought that only Hogwarts proper was on the map. So Hagrid's hut 
> and the forest would not show up.


zanooda:

Hogsmeade and the Shrieking Shack are not included, but the grounds and Hagrid's hut are, although the hut - only from outside. Lupin said he watched the Trio enter the hut and then come out twenty minutes later, this time together with Pettigrew.


> Potioncat wrote:

>  I'm trying to remember if TT Harry and TT Hermione were in the 
> castle at the same time as Harry and Hermione.


Well, that depends :-), if we are talking about the book - yes, but if we are talking about the movie - no. The time-turner effect is a little different in the movie. In the book, after turning the time-turner, TT Harry and Hermione found themselves in the Entrance hall, because it was where they (plus Ron) were three hours earlier. However, in the movie they stayed in the hospital wing, only as it was three hours earlier.

That's why in the book both HRH and TT Harry and Hermione were in the castle together - TT H&H were hiding in a broom cupboard in the Entrance hall while HRH were passing through the Hall under the Cloak. In the movie TT Harry and Hermione only caught up with "themselves" outside the castle.


zanooda, very happy to see her own post (about Lupin being on the train) that she wrote many hours ago and considered lost forever ... :-). 







From captainjackswomen at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 20 07:04:45 2009
From: captainjackswomen at yahoo.com (Lady of Imladris)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 00:04:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <001301c9a91f$7ee6e030$7cb4a090$@com>
Message-ID: <641655.63210.qm@web59803.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>


That is why I like Remus Lupin because he was a simple wizard. 

I have always been fascinated by trains and when I was a kid and got to go on a train I thought it was the kewlest thing in the world. I always wanted to pull the cord you know? lol.

I think it made the story unique to have the train in HP it set it apart from other stories. 

Its another reason why I just love the movie "Polar Express," lol. Its also a good movie if you haven't seen it yet. 

My great-Uncle had a awesome train collection, he had villages,water falls, pounds, little toy horses, cows, and everything else you could image. My cousins and i always spend hours playing that basement. Just watching the trains lol.  

Love,
Red


--- On Thu, 3/19/09, Nightbreed <md at exit-reality.com> wrote:

> From: Nightbreed <md at exit-reality.com>
> Subject: RE: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
> To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 10:48 PM
> It's possible he just doesn't care to fly (see,
> Hermione) and it's also
> possible that apparating isn't his thing as not all
> wizards are good at all
> things. After all, if wizards could just apparate all the
> time why use
> brooms and floo networks at all? Just as well, the parents 
> could
> side-along-apparte their children to the Hogwarts gates, or
> use the floo
> network.
> 
>  
> 
> The real question is, why have the train at all? Because
> JKR was on a train
> when she thought of the book in the first place, because
> the entire idea was
> based around a boy going to a wizard school by train. But,
> logically with
> brooms, floo & apparition the entire idea of a train
> seems pointless unless
> you unbalance the powers and preferences of the wizards. 
> 
>  
> 
> Maybe it just says a lot about Lupin's character, his
> un-flashiness, his
> simplicity that he chooses less magical modes of
> transportation.
> 
>  
> 
> md
> 
>  
> 
> From: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of zanooda2
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:07 PM
> To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
> 
>  
> 
> --- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:HPFGU-Movie%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Nightbreed" <md at ...> wrote:
> 
> > I always figured it was because Lupin is poor,
> can't afford a 
> > broom, can't apparate into Hogwarts. 
> 
> zanooda:
> 
> Right, not into Hogwarts, but he can Apparate to the gates,
> can't he :-)? Or
> he can use the Floo network to get to Hogsmead and then
> walk to the school.
> Maybe he was too weak to meet Dementors in big numbers at
> the school
> entrance, if he traveled alone? 
> 
> OTOH, he left the school at the end of the book also by a
> carriage, IIRC,
> which is more difficult to explain, because Dementors were
> not there
> anymore. I would guess he was not strong enough to go
> through Apparition,
> because it is rather challenging physically, but he did it
> all right in DH,
> so I don't know what to think :-).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> 
> Remember to snip unnecessary material from posts to which
> you're replying!
> 
> Any questions or problems - contact the List Elves at
> HPforGrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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> 
> 

      




From md at exit-reality.com  Fri Mar 20 12:17:40 2009
From: md at exit-reality.com (Nightbreed)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 08:17:40 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <371610.88263.qm@web59806.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <gpuq4k+emnt@eGroups.com> <371610.88263.qm@web59806.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003c01c9a955$dfa470a0$9eed51e0$@com>

I was also thinking, Lupin is a known werewolf, it's possible the Ministry
would not license him to apparate and may have rules prohibiting werewolves
from owning brooms. It seems logical within JKR's framework.

 

md

 

From: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Lady of Imladris
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:09 AM
To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.

 


And or DD could have wanted Lupin there to protect the kids
during the attack, I mean DD had his way of knowings things. 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 20 16:39:37 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:39:37 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <gpv191+75v9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gq0gs9+34nv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "zanooda2" <zanooda2 at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Nightbreed" <md@> wrote:
> 
> > I always figured it was because Lupin is poor, can't afford a 
> > broom, can't apparate into Hogwarts. 
> 
> 
> zanooda:
> 
> Right, not into Hogwarts, but he can Apparate to the gates, can't he :-)? Or he can use the Floo network to get to Hogsmead and then walk to the school. Maybe he was too weak to meet Dementors in big numbers at the school entrance, if he traveled alone? 
> 
> OTOH, he left the school at the end of the book also by a carriage, IIRC, which is more difficult to explain, because Dementors were not there anymore. I would guess he was not strong enough to go through Apparition, because it is rather challenging physically, but he did it all right in DH, so I don't know what to think :-).
>
Carol responds:

Maybe the carriage ride to the Hogwarts Express (running specifically for him since school wasn't yet out?) was a courtesy to say, "You're not really fired" (though, IMO, he should have been given the danger he presented to HRH). Or, again, maybe it was a courtesy for a man who hadn't yet recovered from a difficult and painful transformation (and a token of forgiveness for blowing his second chance (the first chance having been blown by running all over the Hogwarts grounds in werewolf form with WPP--that part would apply only to the book, of course). Or maybe, it was a courtesy because he had so much stuff to carry--the Grindylow's empty aquarium, or whatever it was called, for example--or, if we're looking at the movie, the Victrola, etc.--though I don't remember a carriage being mentioned in the film, and, IIRC. everything magically fit, Mary Poppins style, into his briefcase.

Carol, who thinks that, just maybe, DD had the DADA curse at the back of his mind and routinely sent home his sacked or incapacitated DADA instructors (the dead Quirrell and, later, Barty Jr. excepted) by this method




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 20 17:01:22 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:01:22 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <001301c9a91f$7ee6e030$7cb4a090$@com>
Message-ID: <gq0i52+t2sh@eGroups.com>

"Nightbreed" <md at ...> wrote:

> The real question is, why have the train at all? Because JKR was on a train when she thought of the book in the first place, because the entire idea was based around a boy going to a wizard school by train. But, logically with brooms, floo & apparition the entire idea of a train seems pointless unless you unbalance the powers and preferences of the wizards. 
 
> Maybe it just says a lot about Lupin's character, his un-flashiness, his simplicity that he chooses less magical modes of transportation.

Carol responds:
 I've already indicated why I think that Lupin took the train (nothing to do with simplicity--DD wanted him there as DADA instructor to protect the students and especially Harry from Dark magic in whatever form--Dementors and/or Sirius Black).

As for why have the train, I think there are a number of reasons. First, Muggle-born students have no other way to get to Hogwarts castle. Second, a lot of younger students Pure-Blood or Half-Blood students Side-along Apparating of using the Floo Network would be awkward (IIRC, they do use the Floo Network one year as a "one-off" measure and McGonagall (and, presumably, the other Heads of House) has to put up with a stream of students landing in her office and getting soot on her carpet--I forget how they dealt with the Muggle-borns that year). Third, the Hogwarts Express is a shared cultural experience for the kids, a prolonged (several-hour) transition between their homes, where even the Pure-Blood and Half-Blood kids are theoretically not allowed to practice magic, and the magical world of Hogwarts (and vice versa). It's a time to get to know new students, who have not yet been Sorted, and for them to get to know each other, and a chance for students from different Houses (or years) who choose to do so to spend time together. (HRH, for example, can sit with Luna, who is both younger than they are and in Ravenclaw.) The older students probably enjoy the ride and look forward to it much more than they would a Floo trip or Side-along Apparition (daytime broom rides being out of the question even with a lightening spell for trunks because of the Statute of Secrecy). Even students old enough to Apparate ride the Hogwarts Express, either for the sheer enjoyment of the experience or because Apparition with a trunk (and possibly a pet) is cumbersome.

BTW, I realize that we're getting off track here and bringing in material from the books. Strictly speaking, the Hogwarts Express is part of the films because it's part of the books. But the shots of the Hogwarts Express in the films seem to me almost symbolic, a seeming part of the Muggle world that's really a journey to (or from) another world, the WW, which is and isn't part of our own world.

Another point--even the younger kids can use magic on the Hogwarts Express, so in a way the train an extension of the Hogwarts grounds or the WW even as they pass over indisputably Muggle territory. And King's Cross is the crossover point or gateway to and from that world.

Carol, who thinks that the Hogwarts Express is an integral part of the Hogwarts experience and suspects that the students think so, too




From md at exit-reality.com  Fri Mar 20 17:39:54 2009
From: md at exit-reality.com (Nightbreed)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:39:54 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <gq0i52+t2sh@eGroups.com>
References: <001301c9a91f$7ee6e030$7cb4a090$@com> <gq0i52+t2sh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000901c9a982$e2d0b0e0$a87212a0$@com>

I wasn't voicing an issue with the train, I was simply saying that when you
have magical means of transport such as flying, apparating and the floo
network there is more than a question of why would one wizard use a train,
but why would any. I hardly think the reason is because it's part of the
Hogwarts experience, especially during a time when Voldy is loose, it's a
grand place to strike a terrifying blow while students are neither protected
by their homes or Hogwarts - that security on the train is never discussed
in the books or films seemed to me a grave error.

 

It should also noted that Slughorn rides the express to the school grounds
as well (next film for those not reading the books). Why would that be?

 

md

 

From: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Carol
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:01 PM
To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.

 



Carol, who thinks that the Hogwarts Express is an integral part of the
Hogwarts experience and suspects that the students think so, too



 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 20 22:43:58 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 22:43:58 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <000901c9a982$e2d0b0e0$a87212a0$@com>
Message-ID: <gq167e+rp3v@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Nightbreed" <md at ...> wrote:
>
> I wasn't voicing an issue with the train, I was simply saying that when you have magical means of transport such as flying, apparating and the floo network there is more than a question of why would one wizard use a train, but why would any. I hardly think the reason is because it's part of the Hogwarts experience, especially during a time when Voldy is loose, it's a grand place to strike a terrifying blow while students are neither protected by their homes or Hogwarts - that security on the train is never discussed in the books or films seemed to me a grave error.
> 
Carol responds:
I already gave my reasons why I think that the students, most of them to young to Apparate, need the train. Please don't take my sig line as my whole argument! The main consideration is probably luggage, which is difficult to transport by broom, Floo Network, or Side-Along Apparation. And Muggle parents would have no way to get their children to Hogwarts *except* the Hogwarts Express (Hogwarts is hidden from Muggle eyes.) I was also giving reasons why older students still take the train when they're capable of Apparating.

Voldy, of course, is not really loose in PoA, the book/film under consideration, but I think that Dumbledore has Lupin take the Hogwarts Express because he's afraid of an attack by the supposed DE Sirius Black or by Dementors. Why he doesn't have Mad-Eye Moody  ride the Hogwarts Express after the Dark Mark is cast at the QWC I don't know--possibly because JKR didn't want Fake!Moody on the train with the kids or because nothing happened--Voldy was keeping a low profile. Obviously, neither DD nor JKR wanted Umbridge on the train, and having Snape ride it as DADA instructor would spoil the surprise. (Essentially, JKR put a teacher on the train only when her plot required her to do so. Deus ex machina, maybe, but it works.)

Nightbreed: 
> It should also noted that Slughorn rides the express to the school grounds as well (next film for those not reading the books). Why would that be?

Carol responds:
Because he's too fat and lazy and self-indulgent to Apparate or ride a broom (or use the Floo Network if it's not being watched)? Also because he wants to meet and treat his Slug Club members. Certainly, he's not there because he's poor or to protect the students. He has his own agenda (which, I assume, we'll see in the film).

Carol, who thinks that perhaps adult wizards don't normally need trains but the Hogwarts students do




From md at exit-reality.com  Sat Mar 21 02:20:49 2009
From: md at exit-reality.com (Nightbreed)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 22:20:49 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <gq167e+rp3v@eGroups.com>
References: <000901c9a982$e2d0b0e0$a87212a0$@com> <gq167e+rp3v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <003e01c9a9cb$a6d2fc30$f478f490$@com>

I wasn't taking your sig line as a whole argument, nor was I arguing. I was
having a discussion, sorry if that seemed like an argument to you.
Seriously, we are discussion Harry Potter films here, I'm not geek enough to
argue about them.

 

md

 

From: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com [mailto:HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Carol
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 6:44 PM
To: HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-Movie] Re: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.


Carol, who thinks that perhaps adult wizards don't normally need trains but
the Hogwarts students do



 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 21 04:16:36 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 04:16:36 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <gq167e+rp3v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gq1pn4+hmek@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

> Why he doesn't have Mad-Eye Moody ride the Hogwarts Express 
> after the Dark Mark is cast at the QWC I don't know


zanooda:

Maybe Mad-Eye *was* supposed to be on the Hogwarts Express, but he (by that time it was already Crouch Jr., not real Moody) missed it, because that morning he got in trouble with the Ministry over those exploding dustbins and needed to sort it out. Arthur Weasley, who came to his rescue, had to modify memories etc. - I suppose all this took some time, and the train leaves at 11:00 a.m.  :-).







From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 21 04:21:50 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 04:21:50 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <003e01c9a9cb$a6d2fc30$f478f490$@com>
Message-ID: <gq1q0u+8siq@eGroups.com>

Nightbreed wrote:
>
> I wasn't taking your sig line as a whole argument, nor was I arguing. I was having a discussion, sorry if that seemed like an argument to you. Seriously, we are discussion Harry Potter films here, I'm not geek enough to argue about them.

Carol responds:

Sorry to be unclear. I was speaking as a former freshman composition teacher who taught "argument" (aka "persuasion") as a form of writing. "Argue" to me means to support a thesis (main point) with logical "arguments" (reasons) and evidence. I certainly wasn't speaking of "argument" in the sense of "quarrel." 

FWIW, I also say "literary criticism" where others might say "literary analysis." It has nothing to do with criticizing in the sense of finding fault with. Both "argument" and "criticism" are terms familiar to me from many years as a graduate student and composition teacher.

Let me rephrase and say that my sig line was not my whole position, just a small part of the case I was presenting. Does that make sense?

Carol, who is also just having a discussion




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 21 04:45:40 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 04:45:40 -0000
Subject: PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION.
In-Reply-To: <gq0gs9+34nv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gq1rdk+il6j@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

> Maybe the carriage ride to the Hogwarts Express 
> (running specifically for him since school wasn't yet out?) 
> was a courtesy to say, "You're not really fired"


zanooda:

Do you think that the Hogwarts Express ran to London for Lupin alone? That's too much of a courtesy :-). Maybe the carriage just took him to Hogsmeade? From there he could get anywhere via the Floo network.



> Carol wrote:

> Or maybe, it was a courtesy because he had so much stuff to 
> carry--the Grindylow's empty aquarium, or whatever it was 
> called, for example--or, if we're looking at the movie, the 
> Victrola, etc.


Yeah, why doesn't anyone in WW use the Undetectable Extension Charm, except for Hermione :-)? It's so handy :-)! I would be happy to have Hermione's beaded bag :-).


zanooda, noticing that the discussions are slowly steering away from the movies ... :-).







From wildirishrose at fiber.net  Sat Mar 21 18:01:02 2009
From: wildirishrose at fiber.net (wildirishrose)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 12:01:02 -0600
Subject: IIRC
Message-ID: <D52F6135CB85461FB978EFAD6955251A@Marianne>

Could somebody tell me what IIRC means?

I've managed to figure out what the other abbreviated wording are, sorry, I can't remember the official meaning for abbreviating them down to letters only, but not the above mentioned one.

Marianne

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From bgrugin at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 21 18:57:46 2009
From: bgrugin at yahoo.com (bgrugin)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:57:46 -0000
Subject: IIRC
In-Reply-To: <D52F6135CB85461FB978EFAD6955251A@Marianne>
Message-ID: <gq3dba+2t04@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "wildirishrose" <wildirishrose at ...> wrote:
>
> Could somebody tell me what IIRC means?
> 
> I've managed to figure out what the other abbreviated wording are, sorry, I can't remember the official meaning for abbreviating them down to letters only, but not the above mentioned one.
> 
> Marianne
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


MusicalBetsy here:
Marianne,
I believe it means "If I Recall Correctly."  If that's not the right meaning, then I've been thinking the wrong thing all this time!






From willsonkmom at msn.com  Sat Mar 21 19:46:15 2009
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (potioncat)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 19:46:15 -0000
Subject: What the actors knew or what we thought they knew
Message-ID: <gq3g67+34if@eGroups.com>

Many of us grumble about changes from HP books to HP movies, although we understand there are differences between reading an event and watching that event. But sometimes it seems WB didn't really know what was going on--in the specific book or in the tales to come. Most of the actors claim to at least read the books--except for Gambon and Harris. 

I recall Robbie Coltrane saying that JKR had given him some background information. I remember in the interview he was joking that he wouldn't dare reveal what the information was. 

At one point during PoA filming Cauron said he wanted to put a graveyard scene in, but JKR told it was the wrong place. The graveyard comment gave us lots of grist for our mill over at main!

Dan talked about challenging JKR who said DD was giving her trouble in DH, and he pointed out that DD died in HBP. Seems she gave him a vague reply to that. After DH came out, Rickman was reported to say that he finally understood what was going on. 

But now that it's over...what could JKR have told RC that would be such a big secret? There wasn't any surprise about Hagrid. Was Rickman really in the dark about Snape? I'm beginning to wonder if the shrunken heads were the least of Cuaron's ideas and JKR had to pick her battles.

So I just wondered if anyone else had read things or given this any thought? What do we think the people knew?

Potioncat, hoping we haven't discussed this in the very recent past.




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 23 23:05:12 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:05:12 -0000
Subject: DH actors
In-Reply-To: <a12a35909075d65ecedfa780dc1984c7@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <gq94j8+egn7@eGroups.com>

Another casting rumor today, this time about Ciaran Hinds being expected to play Aberforth in DH:

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2009/3/23/deathly-hallows-casting-news-ciaran-hinds-to-play-aberforth-dumbledore-more-on-nick-moran


zanooda, who was hoping Michael Gambon would play both Albus and Aberforth, LOL!




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 24 18:47:00 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:47:00 -0000
Subject: What the actors knew or what we thought they knew
In-Reply-To: <gq3g67+34if@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gqb9r4+c628@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:

> I recall Robbie Coltrane saying that JKR had given him 
> some background information. I remember in the interview 
> he was joking that he wouldn't dare reveal what the information 
> was. 
 
> But now that it's over...what could JKR have told RC that 
> would be such a big secret? There wasn't any surprise about 
> Hagrid. 


zanooda:

I have no idea what JKR could have told him. What, that Hagrid was half-giant? This big secret didn't play out in the movie at all. That Hagrid will carry "dead" Harry out of the forest? I don't see how this information could change anything in the way the actor played the character. I believe that the only actors who needed "the talk" were Rickman and Gambon.



> potioncat wrote:

> I'm beginning to wonder if the shrunken heads were the least 
> Cuaron's ideas and JKR had to pick her battles.


zanooda:

LOL! I remember JKR saying that Cuaron wanted some little people (whatever this means) in Hogwarts, and that she said no :-). The man has a lot of imagination :-). The only other Cuaron film that I saw was "A Little Princess", and I actually liked it very much, but I'm starting to think that maybe it was only because I haven't read the book, LOL! 

I also remember JKR saying that Cuaron wanted to make Hagrid much taller than he is, and that she was very surprised to hear it, because Columbus wanted a taller Hagrid as well, at first. I guess both of them took JKR's description of Hagrid (almost twice as tall and five times as wide as a normal man) way too seriously :-).






From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 24 21:18:45 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:18:45 -0000
Subject: What the actors knew or what we thought they knew
In-Reply-To: <gqb9r4+c628@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gqbinl+f2bp@eGroups.com>

potioncat wrote:
> 
> > I recall Robbie Coltrane saying that JKR had given him some background information. I remember in the interview he was joking that he wouldn't dare reveal what the information was. 
>  
> > But now that it's over...what could JKR have told RC that would be such a big secret? There wasn't any surprise about Hagrid. 
> 
> 
> zanooda:
> 
> I have no idea what JKR could have told him. What, that Hagrid was half-giant? This big secret didn't play out in the movie at all. That Hagrid will carry "dead" Harry out of the forest? I don't see how this information could change anything in the way the actor played the character. I believe that the only actors who needed "the talk" were Rickman and Gambon.
> 
Carol responds:

Did she talk to Michael Gambon? I don't recall reading or hearing about it. But I seem to recall reading somewhere that Robbie Coltrane wanted to be reassured that Hagrid survived the series.

BTW, there's an entertaining BBC interview with Robbie Coltrane that you can view here. I didn't catch all of it because of the British accents, but Coltrane doesn't give anything away. He talks about special effects and Quidditch and playing a Half-Giant who sometimes has to hold back his impulses to violence (not a side of Hagrid that I was aware of, unless you count not knowing his own strength).

Here's the link if anyone is interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8uXdThjmNU

zanooda wrote:

<snip> I also remember JKR saying that Cuaron wanted to make Hagrid much taller than he is, and that she was very surprised to hear it, because Columbus wanted a taller Hagrid as well, at first. I guess both of them took JKR's description of Hagrid (almost twice as tall and five times as wide as a normal man) way too seriously :-).

Carol responds:

Interesting! I think she must have expected even the most literal-minded child readers to realize that she was exaggerating--hands the size of dustbin lids, for example, yet Harry at age thirteen or so can easily reach his elbow, so he can't be more than, say, ten feet tall (probably less since he can ride a train). Madame Maxime is treated the same way--feet the size of a child's sled. Both of them would have to be bigger than Grawp for those descriptions to be literally true. (And Dudley would have to be a freak of nature to be as wide as he is tall and take up an entire half of a dining room table.)

If the filmmakers took those descriptions literally, they must have missed the unreliable narrator (Harry's misinterpretations presented as fact) altogether!

Carol, supposing that such ambiguities and exaggerations aren't a normal feature of screenplays, which may be why the directors (and screenwriter?) took them at face value in the books
>





From gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Mar 24 19:45:13 2009
From: gbannister10 at tiscali.co.uk (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:45:13 -0000
Subject: IIRC
In-Reply-To: <gq3dba+2t04@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gqbd89+ugoj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "bgrugin" <bgrugin at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "wildirishrose" <wildirishrose@> wrote:
> >
> > Could somebody tell me what IIRC means?
> > 
> > I've managed to figure out what the other abbreviated wording are, sorry, I can't remember the official meaning for abbreviating them down to letters only, but not the above mentioned one.
> > 
> > Marianne
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> MusicalBetsy here:
> Marianne,
> I believe it means "If I Recall Correctly."  If that's not the right meaning, then I've been thinking the wrong thing all this time!

Geoff:
You will also sometimes see ISTR "I seem to recall".





From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 25 03:13:54 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 03:13:54 -0000
Subject: What the actors knew or what we thought they knew
In-Reply-To: <gqbinl+f2bp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gqc7hi+7c5r@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

> He talks about special effects and Quidditch and playing a 
> Half-Giant who sometimes has to hold back his impulses to 
> violence (not a side of Hagrid that I was aware of, unless 
> you count not knowing his own strength).


zanooda:

I never noticed any impulses to violence in Hagrid :-). I think we saw him show his temper in OotP, when he was being arrested, but this is understandable :-). Besides, he became *really* violent only after they Stunned Fang and then McGonagall.

 
> Carol responds:
 
> If the filmmakers took those descriptions literally, they 
> must have missed the unreliable narrator (Harry's 
> misinterpretations presented as fact) altogether!


zanooda:

But the very first description of Hagrid that I cited is not from Harry's POV, it's from the first chapter, where Harry is just a baby. OTOH, logically, if Hagrid was really twice as tall as other people, he couldn't have ridden a Muggle motocycle or a train :-). I suppose both directors just liked the idea of giant-sized Hagrid because they thought he would look awesome on the screen :-). But when it came to the real Giant in the movie (Grawp), I didn't like how he looked, didn't like it at all ;-(.




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 26 00:53:24 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:53:24 -0000
Subject: What the actors knew or what we thought they knew
In-Reply-To: <gqc7hi+7c5r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gqejm4+om4d@eGroups.com>

Carol earlier:
>  
> > If the filmmakers took those descriptions literally, they must have missed the unreliable narrator (Harry's misinterpretations presented as fact) altogether!
> 
zanooda responded:
> 
> But the very first description of Hagrid that I cited is not from Harry's POV, it's from the first chapter, where Harry is just a baby. 
>
Carol again:

I didn't mean that the descriptions of Hagrid were (necessarily) from Harry's point of view (though some of them are). I just meant that if they took the exaggerated descriptions literally, not recognizing the hyperbole, they certainly wouldn't catch the more subtle unreliability of the narrator when he or she presents Harry's interpretation of events as what's rally happening. In other words, since they missed the obvious distortions, they almost certainly overlooked the more subtle ones as well. (Like a six-year-old, they apparently believe anything they read! Yes, they know it's fiction, but they accept anything in the book as "true" within that fictional world. Apparently.)

zanooda:

> OTOH, logically, if Hagrid was really twice as tall as other people, he couldn't have ridden a Muggle motocycle or a train :-). 

Carol responds:
Exactly. Not only are JKR's descriptions of Hagrid inconsistent with each other, they're inconsistent with the way he interacts with the characters. (Try reaching the elbow of a twelve-foot-tall man.) True, he's described as a giant in SS/PS, both before and after just-turned-eleven-year-old Harry meets him, but that's partly because he would seem like a giant to Muggle readers (or the Dursleys, if they met him) and partly because there's no other word for a really big man who has not yet been revealed as a half-Giant. (Maybe one is capitalized and the other isn't?)

zanooda:
I suppose both directors just liked the idea of giant-sized Hagrid because they thought he would look awesome on the screen :-). 

Carol:
I suppose. I think they just took the descriptions literally. Certainly, they had no idea when the first films were made that a real Giant (or more than one) would be appearing later in the series. But you can't have Hagrid twelve feet tall or even ten feet tall and have him interact as he does with the kids. Eight feet tall is tall enough.

zanooda:
But when it came to the real Giant in the movie (Grawp), I didn't like how he looked, didn't like it at all ;-(.

Carol:

It sounds like Gollum, it does, Preciousss! I didn't like the way Grawp looked, either, but, then, JKR describes him as looking more or less like a boulder or set of boulders with huge dirty feet (and hands). Movie!Grawp is at least cute in an ugly sort of way, if you know what I mean. (I didn't like the way Movie!Hermione scolded him, sounding not at all terrified. Bokk!Hermione's reaction is more realistic.)

Carol, who thinks we've strayed a bit from the subject line but doesn't want to change it in case we want to stray back





From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 26 23:45:07 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 23:45:07 -0000
Subject: What the actors knew or what we thought they knew
In-Reply-To: <gqejm4+om4d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gqh423+garq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

> Movie!Grawp is at least cute in an ugly sort of way, if you 
> know what I mean. 


zanooda:

Yeah, I know what you mean :-). He looks like an overgrown toddler :-).


> Carol wrote:

> I didn't like the way Movie!Hermione scolded him, sounding 
> not at all terrified. Book!Hermione's reaction is more realistic.



zanooda:

Hehe, maybe Hermione saw the "cuteness" that you mentioned, that's why she wasn't terrified :-). Of course, Book!Grawp was not cute in any way :-).




From justcarol67 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 29 17:52:14 2009
From: justcarol67 at yahoo.com (Carol)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 17:52:14 -0000
Subject: Bill and Fleur's wedding in DH?
Message-ID: <gqocge+g018@eGroups.com>

Excellent news, everyone. Not only is Clemence Poesy in negotiations to reprise her role as Fleur but (as someone else has already reported) Domnhal Gleeson has been cast as Bill and Rhys Ifans has been cast as Mr. Lovegood. The Shell Cottage sequence will be filmed in Pembrokeshire, Wales. 

http://news.popstar.com/Article/797

Here's additional confirmation of the casting of Rhys Ifans, along with a photo of him (use the tinyurl if the long one is broken):

http://www.firstshowing.net/2009/03/28/rhys-ifans-to-play-xeno-lovegood-in-harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows/

http://tinyurl.com/dg5e7n

The Leaky Cauldron has additional information.

Assuming that the information in these articles is reliable, it seems likely that we'll see Bill and Fleur's wedding as well as the Shell Cottage sequence. After all, Bill and Mr. Lovegood need to be introduced as characters because they'll play a part later in the film, and (except for Fleur's kissing Ron good-bye) not the slightest hint has been presented that she'll end up as a member of the Weasley family. (Presumably the attack on Bill by Fenrir Greyback will be eliminated since Bill doesn't appear in the HBP film.) It sounds as if shell Cottage will be in Part I, which, to me, makes sense. Harry's choice (Horcruxes, not Hallows) is probably the perfect place to end the first film.

I know that not everyone is pleased with the casting of Fleur Delacour--Clemence Poesy is hardly Veela beautiful, I agree, but neither are most people--but I think we should be glad that those particular characters will be in the film. The wedding, of course, is important because of what happens afterward (I hope we'll see a lynx Patronus with Kingsley Shacklebolt's voice), and the eccentric Mr. Lovegood should provide some humor as well as introduce a certain very important symbol.

With all the weird additions we've been reading about, I'm happy to see that the filmmakers are (apparently) doing something right!

Carol, mentally supplying "candyfloss" hair to the photo of Rhys Ifans




From zanooda2 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 29 23:02:43 2009
From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 23:02:43 -0000
Subject: Bill and Fleur's wedding in DH?
In-Reply-To: <gqocge+g018@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <gqoumj+vut8@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:

> Carol, mentally supplying "candyfloss" hair to the photo of Rhys Ifans


Yeah, when I read this news yesterday on Leaky I thought Ifans was too young to play Lovegood, but then I realized that I can't actually recall Xeno being called "old" in the book, and that his old age was probably just my assumption based on this white candyfloss hair :-). In reality, he could easily be 40 or 50-something, just with white hair, like that character from "Back to the Future" - Doc Brown, or whatever his name was :-). And this Ifans guy seems eccentric enough, so maybe he will be OK :-).


zanooda