PoA MOVIE DISCUSSION

[Carol]

potioncat wrote:
<snip> 
> 1. We have a new director for movie 3. Did you know of his work before? How do you think he did on this movie? Do you think he read any of the HP books? 

Carol responds:
I've never seen anything else by Cuaron and am not particularly interested in doing so. A few things are well done (the Dementor opening the train compartment, Harry flying on Buckbeak, Hermione reaching for Ron's hand and the two pulling away from each other in embarrassment), but he got a lot of things wrong, and one glitch is particularly annoying: We start to see Harry's Dementor Boggart in the DADA lesson, but two scenes or so later, Lupin tells Harry that he stopped him from having his turn because he thought it would turn into Lord Voldemort. The nonbook-reading audience must have thought, "Huh?") I don't know whether he read the book or not, but he certainly allowed, encouraged, or required omissions of crucial elements in the script (Snape brewing the Wolfbane potion, for example) that should not have been left out. (Pettigrew asking if Lupin has had his potion is one of those annoying moments.) And having Harry cry when he hears about Sirius Black's supposed betrayal (which may or may not be in the script--I don't know how much leeway a director has) is completely out of character. And don't get me started on the Muggle casual clothes (as opposed to official school uniforms under the robes, which have always been there), toy trains, shrunken heads, or Tom the Barman. And what, exactly, was Snape doing while Harry was running after Sirius? Still protecting Ron and Hermione when Harry was in danger? It makes no sense.

> 
> 2. John Williams wrote this music, as he did for the 1st two. What did you think of it? Any favorite tunes from this movie?

Carol:
His music is really catchy and memorable, especially "Double, double, toil, and trouble." Yes, it's uncanonical, and we have the altered Flitwick as director, but I still like it as opening banquet entertainment. (Wonder how Book!Snape would have liked the Shakespearean potion references?) I also like the Buckbeak theme, or whatever it's called (the music that's played as Harry rides Buckbeak over the lake.)
> 
> 3. What do you think of PoA as a stand-alone movie?

I suppose that it stands alone better than some of the others. It feels as if all the plot ends have been resolved (moving the Firebolt to the end of the film actually worked) and you forget that the servant will rejoin his master. It does weave several plots together (the "Grim"/Sirius Black; Buckbeak; the Time Turner) rather neatly. It's just that, knowing the book, I see gaping holes in the film. (They never explain how Lupin knew that the Marauder's Map was a map or how to work it, for one. I suppose we're meant to think that because DADA is "his area of expertise," he can look at it and know how to work it? Harry never questions that in the book, either, but at least the reader finds out later that he's Moony!)
> 
> 4. The opening scene, with the somber music and Warner's symbol in a worn gray seemed to set a dark tone to this movie. What did you think of the sudden switch to the scene of Harry practicing magic and Vernon trying to catch him? What did you think of the movie's mix of darkness and humor?

Carol:
It did seem odd, but it sets us up for that same symbol and a dark opening in GoF--not that the filmmakers did that intentionally. I don't really care for the opening scene with Uncle Vernon (though it does introduce the Lumos spell), but I suppose it puts the viewer in familiar territory. I do like the scene with Aunt Marge, though. Very well done, including Harry storming out of the house and then suddenly realizing that Uncle Vernon's "You've no place to go" is the exact truth. The mix of darkness and humor is a good strategy, mirroring one of JKR's strengths. (I don't like the way Harry talks back to Snape, though. I'd have deducted some points there!)
> 
> 5. Practicing magic over the summer? How many un-canonical scenes can you identify in this movie?  That is, a scene that contradicts canon, as opposed to noncanonical scenes that are additions? Count them too, if you like. Or just comment on the more glaring ones. Did you like the changes, or not?

Carol:
I've already mentioned Harry cry, which I hate. I have absolutely no idea why they included the scene with the cleaning witch being nearly blown away and saying, "I'll come back later," and the shrunken heads are so uncanonical and unEnglish that I really don't see why JKR allowed them. I rather liked the two instances of the Headless Hunt members showing up out of nowhere (were they even mentioned in POA?). I didn't care for the Fat Lady singing ("It ain't over till the fat lady sings"????) or for Ron's dream of tapdancing spiders, a poor substitution indeed for Sirius Black slashing the bedcurtains. (Maybe that scene would have made the film too scary?) Having Hermione sock rather than slap Draco was probably effective. At least she squealed in terror when they were flying, which undoes the SuperGirl image a bit. For the most part, I find the additions annoying simply because adding them means cutting or altering the canon. And the shrunken heads are annoying in and of themselves. (Even if the film were set in Jamaica instead of England, I'd have hated them.)
> 
> 6. We've discussed the Aunt Marge scene recently. Could anyone tell what Dudley was watching on the TV (or is that telly?) with such great interest? Does anyone know if it is a real show, or a made-up one?

Carol:
It looked to me like an old-fashioned Ed Sullivan-style variety show, nothing a modern thirteen-year-old boy would watch. Maybe he was so conditioned to TV watching that he didn't care what was on TV (unless, of course, Aunt Marge was being blown up and hitting him in the head with buttons). As for Aunt Marge floating away, he obviously doesn't care in the least.
> 
> 7. What about the changes to familiar characters like Tom of the Leaky Cauldron, or Professor Flitwick or the Fat Lady? Or the changes to costumes--even Arthur looked like a Muggle! Did the changes work?

Carol responds:
I thought that Arthur's costume was odd (a red muffler on September 1?), so it wasn't *exactly* how a Muggle would dress, and I did notice a witch in the background with a witch hat, but over all, I thought it was just uncanonical to have the teachers (Lupin and Flitwick) in suits (Lupin's, at least, was appropriately shabby--BTW, did he pick up the clothes that he split down the back after he transformed and repair them magically? Both he and Peter Pettigrew left their clothes behind and would have been naked when they transformed back into human form.) Even Draco was wearing Muggle clothes after hours, which Book!Draco wouldn't be caught dead doing. I didn't like having Tom turned into some character out of a bad Frankenstein movie--might as well change his name to Igor and be done with it. I can see changing the costume of the Fat Lady a little since she's been recast as a very different actress, but the glass incident is just silly. The Muggle clothes have been transported into all the subsequent films, so I guess we just have to live with them--and with DD's monotonous wardrobe and beard tie. But if the series is redone in ten years or so, I hope they'll follow the books more closely. Cuaron wanted to make it *his* film. Columbus, for all his faults, at least wanted to make it JKR's.
>  
> 8. Lupin's description of Lily created a lot of comment at main. Now that we've read all the books, was movie!Lupin correct? Do you think Snape would agree with Lupin's opinion of Lily?

Carol:
Snape idealized Lily, so, yes, he'd have agreed with it. But I think it was made prematurely, and it doesn't fit the Lily we meet in the books.
> 
> 9. Harry tells Lupin he's used a memory of his parents talking to him, and says something like, "I don't even know if it's real." Does that remind you of anything?

Carol:
I thought that it referred to the Mirror of Erised.
> 
> 10. For the first time I heard Hermione say something along the line of "I heard Snape telling DD that it would take a powerful wizard to conjure that Patronus." Where was Snape supposed to be that he saw the Patronus? Did anyone catch sight of him in the "rewinding of time" when Hermione and Harry used the TT to go back.

Carol responds:
I keep asking myself the same question (and I did slow down the action to try to see what he was doing in the background). Since he was there protecting the kids, why didn't he chase after Harry rather than (apparently) staying with Ron and Hermione, who were in no immediate danger? He must have followed at some point but arrived too late to do anything himself (what could have delayed him that long?) He didn't take the kids to the hospital wing until *after* they were saved by the Patronus, or Hermione couldn't have overheard him talking about the Patronus. Essentially, his part makes no sense. He goes from heroic to absent. I think it's implied that he got the kids to the hospital wing (no one else could have done it), but IMO, it's very bacly handled. (Clearly, the writers didn't know that he could cast a powerful Patronus of his own, and it had to be Harry who saved the day through the Time Turning.) JKR's version is better--but I do like the scene of Snape standing protectively in front of the kids rather than being bounced along with his head hitting the tunnel wall by Black. (On a side note, I almost like the movie version of Sirius Black once they get past the intended murder. He's a much more sympathetic character than Book!Sirius. I could do without the line about Remus living in his heart, though. Gah! That was saccharine and corny--and politically charged.) 
> 
> 11. We get an abbreviated version of the Marauders, and only a touch on the Snape/Marauder animosity during this movie. How do you think that will play out in later movies?

Carol:
Well, we James as "swine" in the OoP version of SWM. I think they're just focusing on the James Potter/Severus Snape angle and ignoring the rest. we may get a lengthier replay of SWM, complete with Lily, in DH, but I think that's as far as it will go. (The movies have never made the Marauder/James and company connection explicit.)
> 
> 12. Do you think the newer movies will have to explain the Patronus again? Will it be clear that a Patronus is an animal shape?

Carol:
Well, they did show Luna's hare and Ginny's horse(?) in OoP. They could use Kingsley's lynx and/or Mr. Weasley's weasel early in DH to show Patronuses sending messages to foreshadow the doe Patronus. I have a feeling that they've left the Patronuses (and much else) out of HBP. 
>  
> 13. Buckbeak attacks Lupin in the movie.  Do you think the movie will repeat that action in HBP when he should attack Snape?

Carol:
I think they'll leave that out. People will wonder why Buckbeak is back in the movie for that one scene--and it wouldn't be worth the CGI effects just for that. Snape has reason enough to want out of there without an undignified exit pursued by a hippogriff.
> 
> 14. There were lots of clocks in this movie, Lupin's solar system, his floating time candles in the shape of spines, the pendulum, the clock and its gears in a tower. Do you think Cuaron thought the time turning sequence was the crux of the movie?

Carol:
I hadn't thought about the candles in the shape of spines in that connection, and the clock and gears just seemed ominous, rather like the complicated locking mechanism on the doors. I thought that he was emphasizing that it was the Cinderella hour and they had to get back to the hospital wing or they'd turn into pumpkins. Or, well, something equally bad would happen if they didn't somehow miraculuously run up several flights of stairs (I forget which floor the hospital wing is on) in twelve strokes of the clock. But, yeah, I do think he thought that the time-turning sequence was the crux of the movie, and he made it blatantly obvious that Hermione was showing up out of nowhere in her classes. (Funny that no one but Ron noticed.)
> 
> 15. There are lots of special effects in this movie--Aunt Marge, Dementors, and the werewolf, to name a few. Did you like the way they were done? Were the Dementors and their effect what you expected?

Carol:
I thought that the bald, anthropomorphic werewolf was pathetic, but the Dementors were scary and horrible, especially their hands and mouths. I didn't like the way they seemed to be sucking souls rather than happiness all the time, though. The soul-sucking needs to be its own (unshown) special effect, the "kiss" of worse than death. And they're not supposed to fly, only glide near the ground, but I suppose that works well enough in the film that I can let it go.
> 
> 16. Any scenes in particular that you'd like to discuss? Was anything missing from the movie? Did the plot make sense? Was anything better in the movie than the book?

Carol:
I think I've answered all those questions already. I do want to mention another minor annoyance, Harry's gratuitous meanness in grabbing (stealing) Neville's lollipop. That was an action worthy of James at his worst, or Draco in an invisibility cloak, but it was wholly unworthy of Harry and just plain petty. The only things I liked better were Aunt Marge as hot air balloon and Snape guarding the kids from the werewolf (even though he seems to evaporate into incompetence the moment Harry runs off).
> 
> 17. And the first question that really just popped into my head--Did anyone ever say who the manufacturers of the map were? Did we ever get the nicknames?

Carol:
We got the nicknames twice: from Harry reading the map before he opens it (Fred or George says, "We owe them so much") and again when the four present their compliments to Professor Snape and then insult him, but they're never identified. (I wonder if any sharp moviegoers who hadn't read the books connected "Moony" with Lupin's moon Boggart and realized that he must have been one of the makers because he knew how to work the map?) There's no clue to the other three, though, except the distant shot of Prongs, which is insufficiently connected to the Patronus Harry is casting and completely unexplained.
> 
> 18. Would anyone like to volunteer for a GoF discussion? 

Carol:
Er, maybe. If so, I'll offlist you.

Carol, who actually rewatched the movie before answering the questions this time