Spoiler: - , THE MOVIE, Hermione, and Lily - General Review.

[Steve]

Preface by Steve:

Indeed there are MOVIE SPOILERS, if you don't want to know the details of the movies, then best stop reading now. 


--- In HPFGU-Movie at yahoogroups.com, "krules" <kempermentor at ...> wrote:
>
> First, reader beware, spoilers follow.
>...
> 
> ...
> 
> My disappointment in the last book left me hoping for a rewrite in its movie adaptation.  ...
> 
> So on to Part II
> Gringotts
> Much of the events at Gringotts was so well done. ... But the first Goblin to go up in flames?  Well that particular death is a bit wanky.  The Goblin is still under the Imperious cast by Ron who upon seeing his cursed Goblin ablaze essentially remarks, 'that sucks'.  ...

Steve Replies:

Frequently, in the 'Book' group, I have to remind people that there are two ways of viewing any give scene. One is as a person inside the world. From this perspective, certain things can seem very morally inappropriate or at least ambiguous. But the other view is from out side the world as a reader/viewer or author/write. I think that particularly scene with the Goblin dying, was meant to be humorous. And Ron's remark was closer to "That's unfortunate". There were several times during this dark movie where I found humor and laugh out loud in the theater. 

>From the moral world of a participant, the death of the Goblin was morally questionable, for from the moral perspective of an outside observer, I can see the intended humor.

This also brings up one other issue though, it is what I call the "Stand and Wait" Misdirection, and I don't mean misdirection in the literary sense. I mean bad directing on the part of the director, though I do understand why.

Take Dobby's death, when Harry pleads for help, what do Ron and Hermione do, the 'stand and wait' or stand and pose for the camera, when the natural instinct of any living person would be to rush forward, even if there is nothing you can do.

The Goblin/Draco scene was another 'stand and wait' scene. That main characters simply stand and pose against any natural or reasonable instinct. It makes for some nice camera shots, but it soften the underlying reality. These are mistake or mis-direction by the director. He is the one staging everything, so he carries the responsibility for the logical inconsistencies. 




> 
> Hogsmead
> Thank goodness for Aberforth.  ...  They get to the other end of the tunnel where we know the Room of Requirement is.  Will this pass my Slytherin inclusion test?
> 
> Hogwarts
> The portrait opens and there are no banners of any houses hanging anywhere.  ... so I don't give it a fail. Wait.  I do fail that scene, but not for the lack of Slytherins.
> 
> For some reason, Luna's in the room.  And so is Ginny.  And so is Cho. ...  I get that.  Ginny tells Harry 'Hey Snape knows you're here'.  The next scene shows the students of Hogwarts lined up military style in their dress robes.  And, hey, there's Seamus.  And Cho!  Were they not in the Room of Requirement?  ...  Stay back shadow!


Steve replies:

Again touching on MOVIE SPOILER DETAIL, though somewhat minor details.

I think that is a flaw in the directing, again. I can see Harry sneaking in, really this whole scene existed simply to rush Snape's exit from the building and to start the castle getting organized more quickly.

But you are right. Either they are hiding out in the Room of Requirements, and all indications are that they are, or they are not. 

Perhaps, they joined the ranks when the assembly was called to be on hand to protect Harry. That's possible. But it seems odd no one noticed. Still, to a Death Eater, all students look the same. 

But I think it would have been more logically consistent, and would have taken no more time, if the 'hiding' students had rushed in with the Order members. 

One reason could be, is that by using the 'cast-aways', they could hire that many few extras. It filled out the ranks, but didn't cost any more money. 

> krules continues:
>
> Speaking of.  The Carrows are behind Snape as he asks the students about Harry and threatens them.  A student walks out of line.  It's Harry!  And in dress robes?  Some exposition ensues to catch the viewer up on what happened two movies ago.  Spoiler alert. Snape killed Dumbledore.  Wands are raised and McGonagall steps in front of Harry.  Ahh!  She sends nonverbal abracadabras and hocuspocus at Snape who deflects them.  And does he reflect them at the Carrows behind him?  I don't know, but they end up on the floor.  More props than characters, those two.  

Steve response:

Yes, it was very unclear why and how the Carrows fell. It would have been better if, seeing the conflict of the moment, and seeing herself out numbers, McGonagall send of three curses in quick succession, or some how managed a curse that split itself into three. Snape could parry his, and the Carrows being somewhat dim, could not. 

> krules continues:
>
> I'm annoyed by this because I wanted Harry to use the Cruciatus.  A flawed hero is an interesting hero.  And I wanted to see McG abash him. ...

Steve responds:

I didn't so much want to see Harry use the Curcio, as much as I did want to see Harry defend McGonagall's honor. I'm OK that this scene was left out, but the bits and pieces pulled together a little to quickly and easily. One could say it is poetic liscense, or one could say it was laziness on the part of the producer/directors. 

Next, I'll summarize a last few issues -

Room of Requirements - I was completely baffled as to how they were going to pull this off. I was pretty sure they had painted themselves in to a corner on this one, but it was pretty satisfying. There are always little things to pick at, but again, generally satisfying.

I'm OK with the plot lines of the secondary character, and though it deviated from the story, I think Neville was resolved in a satisfying way. 

One side note on the Protections on the castle, couldn't the re-enforce them. Couldn't they provide layered protections; one dome of protection within a second dome of protection? And couldn't they have started to replace them when the enchantments finally feel? Still, that would only prolong a story that they desperately trying to cut short. 

I think the Snape Pensieve scene played out very well, and a lot of necessary backstory was presented very quickly, yet in an understandable way. 

On Fred's death, they cut it down to nothing, rather than see him die and experience it, more or less, we just see him dead. 

> krules continues:
> 
> Harry.  The forest again.  AK.  DD and King's Cross.  Exposition. Is he dead?  Narcissa. Is Draco alive?  Nod.  A march to Hogwarts.
> 

Steve Replies:

Again, with MOVIE SPOILERS. This is a minor point, but for those not wanting the details, you should have never read this far to begin with. 

Overall, I'm satisfied with this scene except for one tiny pick but critical continuity error. In the books, when Harry faces Voldemort, he stashes his wand so he won't be tempted to defend himself, and in the logical consistency of the scene, that makes sense. Harry has to die willingly, and without resistance.

However, in the movie when when they meet, Harry is still holding his wand in his hand. Where does it go when he is hit with the Avada Kadavra curse? Logically it would fall to the ground and get left behind, which is not good for the plot. It would have taken a second for Harry to stash it, and putting his wand away would have, in a sense, mocked Voldemort who fears death. Again, this is the fault of the director and no one else. He stages everything, it is his job to see these details. 

One last detail, and again a Movie Plot Spoiler.

I would have preferred the explanation of the transition of the Elder Wand to have occurred with Voldemort, not Ron and Hermione after the fact. I worried about this part in the movies because it goes on quite long in the book, and would certainly need to be pared down substantially. 

If it had been done this way, the Voldemort would have met his end with an element of fear, uncertainty, and doubt. I think JKR very specifically laid the plot out this way because she wanted Voldemort to have the moment of doubt and fear before he was defeated. 

Lastly, I was somewhat disappointed with the resolution of the Elder Wand Scene, not specifically with regard to the Elder Wand itself, but with regard to Harry's wand. It would have taken a second to repair his own wand with the Elder Wand, and then to have destroyed the Elder Wand itself. He could have then used his own wand to destroy the Elder Wand with magic assuring that it could never be repaired. 

That last point is a plot point that many can and will overlook, but it bothered me. 

Again, I thought all the actors, large and small, brought there A-Game, and I thought Warwick Davis brought some serious acting Chops to his role as Griphook. I thought they wove what I would have considered an impossible story into a very coherent flow. Certainly there are scenes that I missed seeing. But overall, with the minor point I've made, I was very satisfied with the resolution to this long and exciting tale. 

Just one man's opinion.

Steve/bboyminn