[HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Desperate measures

[Pam Hugonnet]

I've been reading with interest this whole debate about whether or not
the list membership should be closed.  I kinds feel the need to chip in
with my own two knuts' worth, although I do realize that I may not be
saying anything new.


After careful consideration of the issue, I think it would be
ill-advised to close list membership.  I hear all the concern about the
supposed "elitist" reputation of HP4GU, but to close the list would
truly feed into that.  It would start us down a slippery slope that
would truly lead to an ugly place.  I have a problem with anything that
smacks of segregation or discrimination:  who is it that we are keeping
out?  for what reasons?  are these really good reasons or is it simply
because some posters can sometimes be annoying?  Besides, if you close
the door against these alleged "undesirables" aren't we closing the door
on people who could have great insights and valuable contribution to the
discussion?  Or are we left with trying to develop some sort of a
screening process so that we let only the "right" people in?  ( I
shudder to think of *that*)


-- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tabouli" <tabouli at u...> wrote:
> Couldn't we have a more exclusive list where entry is by private
email invitation only?

    I belonged, or should say belong--but I don't read the mail much
anymore, nor do I contribute--to the Monkees Mailing List.  The list
started out as a message board--alt.music.monkees--and evolved into a
open mailing list.  The core group of people from a.m.m. were there and
a few new people joined.  We really had a lot of fun, posting mostly
about the Monkees, but also about our lives.  We developed sort of a
list culture complete with a virtual clubhouse and all sorts of fun
accouterments.  In 1995 and 1996, interest in the band grew--Rhino
released all 57 episodes in a boxed set, the Monkees did a reunion tour,
issued a new album...there was a lot more for us to talk about and new
people began to join the group.   At first it was okay; the newbies
became assimilated into the group culture and quickly added to the
quality and the liveliness.  But as the crowds grew bigger, it became
more difficult to be "heard," it was harder to pick your friends up in
the crowd; but that was okay, we were all bound together in our
excitement about the band's renaissance.  Sometimes the list would
generate 300 messages a day.  (Sound familiar?)

    Then the bottom fell out.  The tour ended; the album went nowhere;
Michael Nesmith pulled out of a second reunion tour after two shows in
England.  So there was nothing; we contented ourselves for a while with
discussing what there had been before, but we were all hungry for
something new.  However, new people were still joining, the message
count was still high.  But they were discussing and re-discussing the
same old things.  Sometimes the oldbies would get short with the newbies
for asking the same questions over and over.  We developed FAQ's; these
were e-mailed directly to the newbies when they joined.  We appointed a
"tour-bus driver" to give basic instructions to the newbies to make the
transition easier; we asked them to read the list for a week or two
before posting, just to get the feel of things.   Meanwhile, people were
masking up for the lack of new Monkees material by turning to more OT
things; they were very interesting, but they took up a lot of bandwidth,
so much so that eventually it was decided to ban OT discussions.  Later,
a separate list developed where the oldbies would hang and talk about
the "good-old days" and lament the sad state of the list.  The
accusations of elitism and unfriendliness began flying; if someone's
thread wasn't picked up, there would be cries of "Foul! and you are
ignore me because you guys always ignore the new people!"  Or "There are
a lot of us who are uncomfortable posting here because you guys don't
want to here what we have to say..."  (Again, does this sound
familiar?)   Eventually, in an attempt to make everybody happy and
everybody comfortable, the list became a place of draconian rules that
squashed the fun out of it.  The list fragmented and splintered, with
some groups going off to start their own mailing lists.

    The oldbies started one that was invitation-only.  One would get a
discreet e-mail that one had been nominated to join the "No-Timers,"
along with the instructions of how to join.  I was initially pleased to
have been invited, but as the weeks wore on and I was privy to the
discussions that followed the suggestion of new candidates, the less I
like the process and began to see it for what it was: simply another
exclusionary and elitist tactic.

    The Monkees Mailing list still exists, as does No-Time and many of
the other spin-off lists.  But the five years I spent with that group
taught me a great deal.  I think that many of the difficulties that are
going on over at HP4GU are simply the result of growing pains:  it is
difficult to manage effective communication among such a large group of
people.  Some people are not going to be heard; if you want to be heard,
you must speak up and you might have to repeat yourself--folks who come
from large families will know what I mean.  It is also not possible for
the moderators to create a list where everyone will be happy; we cannot
change the rules every time someone chimes in that s/he feels hurt,
left-out, misunderstood, etc.  The job of the moderators is to create a
set of rules for effective and reasonably efficient communication and to
monitor for egregious behaviors or content that violates the list
rules.  I think we are very fortunate to have a moderator team that does
such a marvelous jobs and i shall stand here to give you all, moderators
and elves, FAQ makers, historians and L.O.O.N.S a round of applause.

    I would ask that we not be so hasty to form other lists.  I think
that keeping the Movie discussions on list might be a good thing. We are
at a point where fresh grist for the mill is sorely lacking; to remove
movie discussion is to remove a fresh source of material for discussion
and to increase the likelihood that stagnation and boredom might give
rise to other not so pleasant sources of diversion: Flame wars, picking
on newbies, increased sensitivities to slights either real or
perceived...

Perhaps a better way to manage to the ever increasing amount of mail
might be to institute a limit on daily posts--say perhaps three or
four.  That way folks are more likely to batch their replies and be less
tempted to send a "me too plus non sequiteur" post.  It would also help
to put a lid on some of the newbies who type out the random thought that
occur to them without  stopping to think if it was really worthy of the
bandwidth (there a couple of newbies who are really flooding the list
right now).  Perhaps we can also institute a way that people can join
the list but not be able to post for the first two weeks?  Sort of an
forced lurker status that might do a couple of things:  first, let the
new person look in on the group and have the opportunity to observe and
learn the culture before they join the circle; second, to let the person
take a look at the group to see if they belong here.  It seems to me
that a lot od the complaints about the group being unfriendly or elitist
stems from a poor fit between the new member and the group.  A lot of
the younger members are simply not temperamentally suited to this kind
of group and perhaps they are expecting an entirely different kind of
experience.  They come running in with their mouths open and talking a
mile a minute before they realize that oops, maybe that ain't what it
all about here.  They then react with defensiveness and hostility.  A
forced lurk will give them a chance to listen (something you can't do
while talking) and to see if this is the experience that they want.
>From there they can either choose to stay or to leave.

Ebony AKA AngieJ wrote:

> Yeah, we're all annoyed with each other and our list now, but don't
> worry.  This too shall pass.
>

    Amen, sister.  We just have to hang in there.  Sorry for the very
long post; I surprised even myself.

drpam
who is anxiously finalizing the details for her daughter's Harry Potter
party in two weeks!   ARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!


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