From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Sat Dec  1 00:19:35 2001
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (Joanne0012 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 00:19:35 -0000
Subject: Limitations of Harry's PoV (was: Re: Interesting article on Salon)
In-Reply-To: <B82DCDFA.620B%john@walton.vu>
Message-ID: <9u97mn+oo77@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., John Walton <john at w...> wrote:
> Joanne0012 at a... wrote:
> the massiveness of the threat of Voldemort wasn't conveyed
> > effectively in the movie.
> 
> This, I feel, has to do with the limitations of film as an entertainment
> medium as well. Don't forget that, in the books, we are viewing everything
> through Harry's eyes. In film, we are viewing everything in third person --
> and cannot see inside Harry's mind.
> 
> Also, let's not forget that (a) Harry might not, as a Muggle-raised wizard,
> understand the whole Voldemort thing (unlikely IMO because of the New 
Scene
> at the beginning; and (b) it might have been cut to death in the
> cutting-room floor.

Hmph.  Since the Voldemort threat is so crucial to creating any sense of 
tension or continuity in the series, they could have at least left in a few of 
the comments or explanations that other wizards contributed in the book.  
Just a couple more lines from Hagrid in that hut scene would have helped a lot, 
IMHO.  

The film never even makes clear that Harry not only survived the attack, but 
caused Voldemort to become virtually helpless and hence liberated the wizard 
world from years of fear, misery, and deaths.  Did I nod off, or did Hagrid not 
get to say the lines from the book that are roughly, "some say he died as a 
result of his enounter with you, but I think he's out there waiting to get strong 
enough to return"?




From poppy at moonprincess.co.uk  Sat Dec  1 12:31:22 2001
From: poppy at moonprincess.co.uk (poppy at moonprincess.co.uk)
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 12:31:22 -0000
Subject: Non-Controversial FanFic Question
In-Reply-To: <9u8vus+50l2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9uaiiq+i93p@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., puddlemereunited at y... wrote:
> So it was with great excitement that I read that Ewan McGregor 
might 
> be up for the part of Lupin, as I have always pictured Remus as 
being 
> a little McGregory.  In fact I have been working on a Lupin-

I always pictured Lupin as kind of Jude Law-esque (not that I've ever 
written about Lupin, but still...), but I suppose JL's kind of 
McGregory too, so I guess I'm not totally on the wrong track.

Hi everyone, btw, I think this is my first post in this group! :-)

Amalia




From poppy at moonprincess.co.uk  Sat Dec  1 13:31:40 2001
From: poppy at moonprincess.co.uk (poppy at moonprincess.co.uk)
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 13:31:40 -0000
Subject: Interesting article on Salon re: Harry and sex
In-Reply-To: <9u8rdm+a27l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9uam3s+lnko@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., cassandraclaire at m... wrote:
> 
> Anyone else read this?
> 
> http://www.salon.com/sex/turn_on/2001/11/29/harry/index.html
> 
> Cassie

It didn't work for him. That's cool. It it'd be boring if we were all 
the same. Bet _he'd_ enjoy a movie based on a fanfic ;-)
So would I, come to that...
Amalia




From john at walton.vu  Sat Dec  1 14:23:59 2001
From: john at walton.vu (John Walton)
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 14:23:59 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Non-Controversial FanFic Question
In-Reply-To: <9uaiiq+i93p@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B82E987F.62AC%john@walton.vu>

poppy at moonprincess.co.uk wrote:

> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., puddlemereunited at y... wrote:
>> So it was with great excitement that I read that Ewan McGregor
> might 
>> be up for the part of Lupin, as I have always pictured Remus as
> being 
>> a little McGregory.  In fact I have been working on a Lupin-
> 
> I always pictured Lupin as kind of Jude Law-esque (not that I've ever
> written about Lupin, but still...), but I suppose JL's kind of
> McGregory too, so I guess I'm not totally on the wrong track.
> 
> Hi everyone, btw, I think this is my first post in this group! :-)
> 
> Amalia

Welcome Amalia and everyone else who's recently joined.

*cough* Now, I'll drool over Ewan McGregor as much as the next chap, but
just a quick note that if this thread turns into a *movie* fantasy casting
thread instead of a *fanfic* casting thread, it should head on over to
HPFGU-Movie. Cheers.

--John, Mod With Rock #47

____________________________________________

There will be an answer, let it be.
        in Memoriam George Harrison.

John Walton -- john at walton.vu
____________________________________________





From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Sat Dec  1 14:27:36 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 14:27:36 -0000
Subject: Dealing with that badtrans.b worm virus - a new tip
Message-ID: <009001c17a74$532c6d20$1c3370c2@c5s910j>

****How to avoid sending that stupid worm virus (or similar things) to all
your contacts (note the irony of forwarding this antivirus tip I read on
another list onto yet another list)****:

"I got a tip from another list on how to mitigate some of the problem with
this type of virus:  if you insert a contact called "000" with no e-mail
address (or an e-mail address of "000") into your address book, these things
will apparently not be able to send themselves out from your system.
Seemingly if they meet an invalid e-mail address they just give up in
disgust."

I've no validation on this, but it's worth a try, methinks.

Before spotting this tip, I had spent several hours downloading an upgrade
to Norton, before I was able to rid myself of badtrans.b.  I'm delighted to
report that my computer is now wearing the cyber equivalent of a gasmask and
chastity belt.  It may not be completely impregnable, but it has certainly
lost its sex appeal.

Neil (who is trying to ignore the possibility the painful ear infection he
picked up is, in fact, the human form of the badtrans.b virus).







From saitaina at wizzards.net  Sat Dec  1 14:43:48 2001
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 06:43:48 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Dealing with that badtrans.b worm virus - a new tip
References: <009001c17a74$532c6d20$1c3370c2@c5s910j>
Message-ID: <000901c17a76$975145a0$0d4e28d1@oemcomputer>

Uh...before you try this tip...might I point out some problems with the
idea-

"This "helpful" bit of advice first appeared on the Internet in mid-August
2001. It purports to offer an easy-to-implement solution to counter the
ongoing travails visited upon those foolish enough to have opened
virus-laden e-mails by disarming the virus' ability to spread to others
disguised as legitimate mail from the duped user. According to the advice,
netizens need only add a bogus !0000, 0000, or 10000 entry in their e-mail
address books to create an effective "shark account" that will gobble up
unauthorized mailings to the full book.

This trick will work somewhat, but it's not the panacea it's presented to
be. Although the recommended action will help derail the spread of viruses
designed to do a "send all," it will not counter the many that randomly
select individual addresses from a user's address book or supplement
addresses harvested from that location with those found cached elsewhere on
the system. (This method also assumes that if the first entry in a list of
recipients is invalid, the message won't be sent to any of the recipients --
this is not necessarily true of all e-mail programs.) Faked entry or not,
those who correspond with users infected with those sorts of viruses will be
just as vulnerable as they ever were.

Moreover, even those viruses whose spread has been halted via the ruse of a
fake address book entry can still be doing damage to the infected user's
system. Once an executable file has been opened and run, any virus it
contains begins doing its dirty work. Part of that dirty work may amount to
mailing itself to others, but if the virus it programmed to do more than
just replicate itself via e-mail, it will still be present to wreak havoc on
the infected computer. Deleting the infection-carrying e-mail will not halt
whatever else may be underway.

Only a fool takes advice that amounts to altering anything on his own system
without first fully understanding its nature. Though the current "helpful
trick" is innocuous, there is no guarantee later versions will not circulate
that instruct the credulous to do harm to their systems under the guise of
helping them. Witness the May 2001 sulfnbk.exe hysteria where thousands of
users geared to take whatever advice turned up in their inboxes were duped
into deleting a key Windows operating system file from their home systems.

The best advice for countering viruses has always amounted to investing in
good anti-virus software and using the product regularly to scan for
infected files. Second best is a caution against running executable files
sent in e-mail. Purient or lustful curiousity often fuels the spread of
those infections, as users who should by now know better open applications
that promise videos of the McVeigh execution or naughty encounters featuring
the latest media hotties.

Peek not lest you lose, not your soul, but your hard drive."

(filched in it's entirty from
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/virus/quickfix.htm)


The best and currently only way to stop the spread of this virus is to
upgrade your browser.  That's all the advice we have at this moment and
pretty much ignore any email that has no subject even from your closest
friends.  I've come in contact with this virus 5 times since my triple
infection and have discovered some...useful facts.

For some reason on my first infection it did not attack my contacts (address
book) it attacked my inbox.  It replied to every email in my inbox yet my
contacts where un-effected.  Other folders were also not infected, meaning
my RPG's, mailing lists, fiction lists were not targeted.  The only people
who actually got the virus from me were spammers and two friends.  So an
idea to help is to sort your mail into folders, it keeps you organized and
protects them.

Removal of the virus involved deleting three files and a line in my
registry...not as complicated as it seems.  Also my ani-virus program did
NOT pick up on the infection, but a web based one did.  For those of you who
would like the URL please contact me privately.  This means you should
update your virus checkers imediatly and everyday so you have the proper
thingies to find the virus.

And most of all...DON'T USE YOUR EMAIL/SURF THE INTERNET during the
infection...it copies keystrokes and sends them to the originator for
his/her personal use...besides, you dont' want to send this to all your
friends while you try to clean up your computer do you?


Saitaina
*****
Giles (to the Council members): You all stand around and look somber.
(Indeed they do.) Good job.
Quentin: You used to respect us, Giles. You used to be one of us.
Giles: You used to pay me.

"The only way to get rid of temptation is to give in."
-Oscar Wilde




From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Sat Dec  1 15:38:05 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 15:38:05 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Dealing with that badtrans.b worm virus - a new tip
References: <009001c17a74$532c6d20$1c3370c2@c5s910j> <000901c17a76$975145a0$0d4e28d1@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <013e01c17a7e$2c149960$1c3370c2@c5s910j>

Saitaina said, re the tip I forwarded here:

> Uh...before you try this tip...might I point out some problems with the
> idea-

<snipped loads of details>

In retrospect, I agree with Sataina's cautions about this tip, and, of
course, I support the far better alternative of keeping your virus checking
software upgraded.  The source was fairly reliable, but, as I said, the
information was not validated.

Thanks for the background stuff, Saitaina.  Blame my ear infection for my
poor judgement in forwarding the potentially dodgy tip.

Redfaced!Neil







From saitaina at wizzards.net  Sat Dec  1 15:38:27 2001
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 07:38:27 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Dealing with that badtrans.b worm virus - a new tip
References: <009001c17a74$532c6d20$1c3370c2@c5s910j> <000901c17a76$975145a0$0d4e28d1@oemcomputer> <013e01c17a7e$2c149960$1c3370c2@c5s910j>
Message-ID: <001f01c17a7e$39318860$0d4e28d1@oemcomputer>

It's okay love.  If I hadn't read about it JUST yesterday while cursing
Snopes I probably would have tried it.  Bloody virus's have gotten me into a
whirlwind over here.

I do hope your ear infection clears up though, nasty little things those
are.

Saitaina
*****
Giles (to the Council members): You all stand around and look somber.
(Indeed they do.) Good job.
Quentin: You used to respect us, Giles. You used to be one of us.
Giles: You used to pay me.

"The only way to get rid of temptation is to give in."
-Oscar Wilde




From seeker at hogwarts-alumni.co.uk  Sat Dec  1 18:55:41 2001
From: seeker at hogwarts-alumni.co.uk (John Hancock)
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 18:55:41 -0000
Subject: Help required please!!!
Message-ID: <9ub93d+q1kd@eGroups.com>

Hi all,

I have a friend that is going to knit me a set of Hogwarts scarves, 
but I have one problem - the colours.

I am very badly colour blind and cannot tell what colour is what on 
the scarves.

I know that Gryffindor is Gold and Maroon but can anyone else help 
with the other colours.

John




From ebonyink at hotmail.com  Sat Dec  1 20:59:15 2001
From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony)
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 20:59:15 -0000
Subject: FF:  Season's Greetings from the Paradise List!
Message-ID: <9ubgb3+kfnh@eGroups.com>

Season's Greetings, HP4GUers and OTChatterers!

It's that most wonderful time of the year again... and the friendly 
HP_Paradise List Mods have been busy little elves conspiring in a 
certain workshop somewhere near the North Pole... conjuring up 
Christmas cookies and other holiday sweets just for you.

Some of the best in Harry Potter fanfiction uses the holidays as a 
backdrop.  What avid fanfic reader will ever forget Peter's 
alienation and angst as he watches the Marauders celebrate their last 
December together in Hyphen's classic *A Rat's Tale:  O Come All Ye 
Faithful?*  Rememeber Sirius and Cordelia's holiday wedding in Penny 
and Carole's *A Sirius Affair*?  And the agonizing Christmas Hermione 
suffered in Lori's PoU sequel, *The Show That Never Ends*? 
 
The Paradise team is pleased to announce that we will be offering 
more than three solid weeks of fanfiction delights.  In all of our 
takes of the Harry Potter universe, 'tis the season to celebrate... 
and celebrate we will.  Every single day from the Holiday Special's 
kickoff on 12/10 until Christmas, there will be a new fanfiction in 
the e-mailboxes of Paradise members. 

There will be stories by seven of your friendly List Mods:  Al, 
Ebony, Heidi, Jana, John, Viola, and Yael.  In addition, we are 
pleased to announce three guest authors whose names nearly every 
Harry Potter fanfiction reader knows:  Carole, author of *A Sirius 
Affair*.  parker, author of the "Interludes" short stories.  And 
Cassandra Claire, author of *Draco Dormiens*, *Draco Sinister*, and 
*Draco Veritas*.

In addition, there will be holiday-themed artwork by the phenomenal 
Karen McVicker and our dear friend, the widely reknowned Starling.  
We issue an open invitation for other artists to participate... if 
you have a Christmas or other holiday HP drawing, either general HP 
canon or based in one of the Paradise list stories, please send it to 
ebonyink at hotmail.com.

What can you expect?  Well, here's the schedule: 

-----------------

12/10--Al, "A Syzygy Christmas Carol"

12/11--AngieJ, "Someday at Christmas"

12/12--Viola, "Spires and Gargoyles"

12/13--parker, "This Time of Year"

12/14--Viola, "Christmas in the Ardennes" or "A Riddle Family
Christmas"

12/15--Heidi Tandy and Cassandra Claire, "A Surfeit of Christmases"

12/16--Heidi Tandy, from *Titanic Days*:  "Chanukah in Seattle"

12/17--AngieJ, "Christmas With The Weasleys, Again"

12/18--Carole, "A Sirius Christmas"

12/19--yael_pou, "Peppermint and Chocolate Christmas Cookie" 
or "Daddy Longtail"

12/20--George Weasley's Girlfriend, "Christmas in Paradise"

12/21--Wood's Keeper, "The Longest Day", from "Keeping Secrets" (from 
the Fan Author Also Known as Crazy Ivan)

12/22--Al, from Snitch!:  "Fairytale of New York"

12/23-1/1 -- Wood's Keeper, a real-time posting of the rest 
of "Keeping Secrets", one chapter a day every day until 2002.
-----------

What do you have to do?  First, you must come join us in Paradise:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP_Paradise ... then just sit back, 
relax, and enjoy the fanfic.  Reviews, commentary, questions, and 
crit are always welcome.

Hope to see you there!

All the best,

The HP_Paradise Author/Moderator Team
(Al, Ebony AKA AngieJ, Heidi Tandy, Jana AKA George Weasley's 
Girlfriend, John Walton AKA Wood's Keeper/Crazy Ivan, Viola, and Yael)

(P.S.  We *will* consider additional guest author submissions of 
holiday-themed fanfic!  Due to scheduling, priority will be given to 
fanfics that are spinoffs or closely related to any of our novel-
length fanfictions.  For details please contact ASAP:  
ebonyink at hotmail.com)

***NOTE:  This HP_Paradise yahoogroup special is sponsored in part by 
FictionAlley:  Fanfics of All Ships, Shapes, and Sizes!  
http://www.fictionalley.org





From triner918 at aol.com  Sat Dec  1 23:43:03 2001
From: triner918 at aol.com (Trina)
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 23:43:03 -0000
Subject: This reminds me..(Was: Why I love HPfGU (and arguments)
In-Reply-To: <20011130021337.53554.qmail@web11503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9ubpu7+a86g@eGroups.com>

Tara wrote:
.  We were talking about
> Hermione and Ron, and this older 'gentleman'
> starting talking across the aisle about how the
> whole Harry Potter series was stolen and that
> some "other woman wrote it all out before her
> with a kid named Larry Potter".  My mom thought
> it was funny, until I started crossing my arms,
> getting into my defensive stance ;-)

I actually saw a copy of She Who Must Not Be Named's work in the 
local Books-A-Million a couple of months ago.  I sat myself down on 
the floor in the middle of the aisle to read through it and was 
thoroughly revolted.  The writing was hackneyed and I can't imagine 
any child managing to get through the first few paragraphs let alone 
the entire book. I barely managed to read the little I did.  And,no, 
I did not see any parallels to HP at all.  I didn't know her lawyer 
recently dumped her-- how funny!

Trina





From keegan at mcn.org  Sun Dec  2 00:39:34 2001
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 16:39:34 -0800
Subject: Holiday Stuff
In-Reply-To: <9u8rdm+a27l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20011201163254.00b36260@mail.mcn.org>

Yesterday, probably for my many sins, I had to go to Costco.  Not fun.  Way 
too many people.  So, what else is new?

In the book aisle, all of the Harry Potter series on CD were available for 
a measly $19.99 a piece!  Loads less than I paid for them.  Stock up!  Have 
fun!  I'm sure they'd make swell presents for folks who don't like to read 
(?!?) but do like to listen.   I swear that PoA made a long trip to Chino a 
lot tolerable and gave the spousal unit a chance to debate bits of the plot 
with me.

In the toy aisle, an aisle that I avoid like the plague but it was the 
least congested that minute, the "action figures" i.e. dolls are 
out.  Costco is selling them as a two pack.  I didn't slow down enough to 
catch the price but they're there.  I know you need a Snape on your 
monitor.  (I don't but I'm sure someone else does...)

Caveat!  This was at the Santa Rosa, CA store.  I know they all have 
different buyers but I'd be surprised if most of the stores didn't carry 
the CDs and the figures.

Catherine the completely shopped out in California (finally!  The power is 
back on for a few hours!  Being without my PC and stereo is very, very hard.)





From taradiane at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  2 03:16:45 2001
From: taradiane at yahoo.com (Tara Pratt)
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 03:16:45 -0000
Subject: Stupid question about eye color
Message-ID: <9uc6et+sf39@eGroups.com>

I was listening to the Jim Dale version of CoS last night and heard 
the bit about Ginny having green eyes.  First off, I don't remember 
her having green eyes at all, and second of all, if we know her eyes 
are green, why is it all the fanfic I read has her with brown eyes?  
Not important, just curious...

Tara




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  2 04:40:48 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 04:40:48 -0000
Subject: Stupid question about eye color
In-Reply-To: <9uc6et+sf39@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ucbch+4hgt@eGroups.com>

Tara wondered...

> I was listening to the Jim Dale version of CoS last night and heard 
> the bit about Ginny having green eyes.  First off, I don't remember 
> her having green eyes at all, and second of all, if we know her 
> eyes are green, why is it all the fanfic I read has her with brown 
> eyes? 
 
> Not important, just curious...


I don't have the audio versions, but if Jim Dale is giving Ginny 
green eyes, he's WRONG!  US version, chapter 3, page 40 of the 
hardcover version:

"On the third landing, a door stood ajar.  Harry just caught sight of 
a pair of bright brown eyes staring at him before it closed with a 
snap."

Jim Dale is supposed to be reading the American versions, so I don't 
know WHAT was going on if he made a gaffe like this.

Jen (who remembers referencing that same quote at least a year ago 
when she was L.O.O.N.ing her way into a "proof" that Ginny's eyes 
were brown...)




From crowswolf at sympatico.ca  Sun Dec  2 13:51:46 2001
From: crowswolf at sympatico.ca (Jamieson Wolf Villeneuve)
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 13:51:46 -0000
Subject: Two new things...
Message-ID: <9udbli+qpc4@eGroups.com>

Hey everyone!!!!!

Two things that might be worth buying....Scholastic has recently 
published the only authorised biography of J.K. Rowling, set up like a 
series of interviews! It might be worth checking out, non?

Oh, and Entertainment Weekly magazine has a "The Secrets Behind the 
Philosophers Stone" article. It's kind of cool, and even lists some of 
the new merchandise that is coming out!

Hugs to all,
Jamieson




From crowswolf at sympatico.ca  Sun Dec  2 13:54:44 2001
From: crowswolf at sympatico.ca (Jamieson Wolf Villeneuve)
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 13:54:44 -0000
Subject: Update...
Message-ID: <9udbr4+euvl@eGroups.com>

Hello Everyone,

A lot of you may have noticed that I've been pretty quiet lately. 
Well, I was just trying to put my life in order, a task that is 
sometimes fun, but can be daunting.

At any rate, my new apartment kicks! I love living on my own, and it's 
made me feel free again!

I've been seeing a gentleman (his name is Geoffrey) for about 4 weeks 
now, and he's a hoot! He treats me sssooooo much better than Mitch 
ever did. It's like I'm spun gold to him, so all is well there.

Other than that, reading, writing, and working in theatre have kept me 
busy busy busy. So busy in fact that I've recently come down with 
bronchitus and phnemonia. Don't worry, I'm on anti-biotics. But some 
"internet chicken soup" and hugs wouldn't hurt either.

Things are finally looking up for me, and hugs to all of you who've 
seen me through it!

Hugs to all

Jamieson




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  2 14:18:09 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 06:18:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Update...
In-Reply-To: <9udbr4+euvl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20011202141809.11666.qmail@web13701.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Jamieson Wolf Villeneuve <crowswolf at sympatico.ca>
wrote:
 
> I've been seeing a gentleman (his name is Geoffrey)
> for about 4 weeks 
> now, and he's a hoot! He treats me sssooooo much
> better than Mitch 
> ever did. It's like I'm spun gold to him, so all is
> well there.
> But some  "internet chicken soup" and hugs wouldn't
>hurt either.
> Things are finally looking up for me, and hugs to
> all of you who've seen me through it!
> 
> Hugs to all
> 
> Jamieson

Hey, it is nice to see you back on HPFGU'S posts!
Always there for you my friend! So, here are tons of
"internet chicken soup" for you from all of us in
Revere,Massachusetts! Naturally, all our off posts
have helped too! Welcome back to the group! More
cliffhangers from you? Your posts will tell!

Hugs to you too,

Wanda the Witch of Revere,Massachusetts and Her Band
of Merry Muggles 100%

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com



From gypsycaine at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  2 14:24:55 2001
From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 09:24:55 -0500
Subject: Peg's Essays
References: <1007281370.421.15090.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <013001c17b3d$1dbb4c00$14556c40@Dee>

Does anyone know where to find  (url link) Peg's essays on the 7 virtues,
and the 7 vices of HP?

Thanks!

Dee
Who knows there's still around somewhere handy!




_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  2 14:52:52 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 06:52:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Evil Female Post
Message-ID: <20011202145252.20635.qmail@web13706.mail.yahoo.com>

Sorry about that! I hit wrong key! Will response to
this later! Sorry for any confusion!

Wanda the Witch and her Merry Band of Muggles

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com



From teeravec at fas.harvard.edu  Sun Dec  2 15:25:43 2001
From: teeravec at fas.harvard.edu (Samaporn Teeravechyan)
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 10:25:43 -0500
Subject: Lord of the Rings roles (was [HPFGU-Movie] Re: switching
  character parts)
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20011202102543.006c76f0@pop.fas.harvard.edu>

'Lord of the Rings' movie discussion ... SPOILERS ahead for those who have
never read the books.

At 02:17 PM 12/2/01 -0000, Heather wrote:

>>> There's no telling what will make us cranky 
>>> about what is left in or out or how it looks right or wrong. I'm already
>>> cranky about the character of Arwen riding a horse and waving a sword in
>>> "Lord of the Rings"  
>> 
>> Actually, I was thinking about that too. My impression is that they
>> replaced Glorfindel with Arwen, so that they don't have to introduce yet
>> another character who will have no role later. That's sort of okay with me
>> -I always felt cheated by the lack of Arwen's character development.
>> 
>  I'm rather suspecting Arwen may end up getting some of Eowyn's 
> schtick as well. Poor Boromir, nobody to settle for him after 
> realizing they'll never get the much cooler Aragorn.

Eowyn's a strong character on her own, and faces problems very different
from Arwen. I doubt that Eowyn's role will be in any way watered down.
Given that there are so few strong women featured in 'Lord of the Rings'
(I'd say, just two: Lady Galadriel and Eowyn) and that the script writers
seem to notice this, Eowyn's role might be enlargened with exploits taken
from other minor characters. 

As for poor Boromir ... I can't say I feel too sorry for him on this score.
Besides, I've never been too fond of his character, although I suppose the
Ring corrupts even the best of men - and women (didn't you find the part
when Galadriel talks about the Ring with Frodo rather creepy?).

Samaporn



From crowswolf at sympatico.ca  Sun Dec  2 15:40:55 2001
From: crowswolf at sympatico.ca (Jamieson Wolf Villeneuve)
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 15:40:55 -0000
Subject: Peg's Essays
In-Reply-To: <013001c17b3d$1dbb4c00$14556c40@Dee>
Message-ID: <9udi27+b7ro@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Denise" <gypsycaine at y...> wrote:
> Does anyone know where to find  (url link) Peg's essays on the 7 
virtues,
> and the 7 vices of HP?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Dee
> Who knows there's still around somewhere handy!
> 
> 

Hey hey,

Here's the link to the essays:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/ESSAYS%20-%20Peg%20K
err/

If that doesn't work, they're in the HP4GU files section...

Hugs
J




From ebonyink at hotmail.com  Sun Dec  2 15:41:17 2001
From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony)
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 15:41:17 -0000
Subject: Favorite Holiday Music?
Message-ID: <9udi2t+2p9l@eGroups.com>

It's Advent for me, and we're fast approaching many different 
holidays from the various religions.  And as I'm too under the 
weather to go to church today :-( as I began work on my Christmas 
fanfiction I got to thinking about my favorite aspects of the holiday.

It's the music.  Not the food, not the decor, not the time off from 
work, not the snow (oh, please let us have a white Christmas again!), 
not even seeing the family again (I see them lots anyway).  For me 
it's the music.

I know it's December when I hear carols and popular holiday music.

My preferences seem to evolve over time.  As a little girl, I 
loved "Santa Claus is Coming to Town" and "One Little Christmas Tree" 
best.  By middle school, I liked "Silent Night", "Judas Maccabeus" 
(which is more for Hanukkah!), and "Lo, How A Rose E'er Blooming" 
because we sang the former in our school choir and we played the two 
latter in band.  

In high school, it was "O Holy Night" and Vivaldi's "L'Invierno" 
(sp? "Winter" is what I want) from the Four Seasons from church choir 
and playing in the school symphony orchestra.  And by college, it was 
Handel's Messiah, although technically it's not just Christmas 
music... I think it's actually more fitting for Easter (what some 
Protestant churches are now calling Resurrection Sunday, mine 
included).

I think my favorite Christmas song right now is "Someday at 
Christmas".  Stevie Wonder, 1969, from the album of the same name... 
I'm from Motown and we *still* love our music.  :-)  It's one of 
those Vietnam era carols... lately I seem to be stuck in the mid-20th 
century where music is concerned!

---
Someday at Christmas, men won't be boys
Playing with moms like kids play with toys
One warm December our hearts will see
A world where men are free

Someday at Christmas, there'll be no war
When we have learned what Christmas is for
When we have found what life's really worth
There'll be peace on Earth

Someday all our dreams will come to be
Someday in a world when men are free
Maybe not in time for you and me
But someday at Christmastime...

Someday at Christmas, we'll see a land
With no hungry children, no empty hand
One happy morning people will share
A world where people care

Someday at Christmas, there'll be no tears
All men are equal and no man has fears
That one shining moment is one prayer away
>From our world today

Someday all our dreams will come to be
Someday in a world when men are free
Maybe not in time for you and me
But someday at Christmastime...

Someday at Christmas, men will not fail
Hate will be gone and love will prevail 
Someday in a new world that we can start
With hope in every heart...

Maybe not in time for you and me
But someday at Christmastime...
Someday at Christmastime.
---

Appropriate for this holiday season, I think, especially after the 
fall we've just had.  Here in America we have a popular court show 
called "Divorce Court", our bombs are raining down on Afghanistan and 
we wait with bated breath for the next retaliation on our own soil, 
and the sick cancer of prejudice towards our fellow brother and 
sisters still infects the collective consciousness of humanity.

And except for the first verse, the song is appropriate for the 
Potterverse, I'd say... 

What are your favorites?

--Ebony AKA AngieJ





From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Dec  2 16:39:32 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt at yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 16:39:32 -0000
Subject: Favorite Holiday Music and Nativity Plays
In-Reply-To: <9udi2t+2p9l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9udlg4+ti4n@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Ebony" <ebonyink at h...> wrote:

> It's the music.  Not the food, not the decor, not the time off from 
> work, not the snow (oh, please let us have a white Christmas 
again!),

In Weston-super-Mare!?  Fat chance :(  Here's one Canadian who goes 
through serious Snow Withdrawal every Christmas since moving here.
 
> not even seeing the family again (I see them lots anyway).

I don't, but my family has always literally been oceans apart.  Our 
little nuclear family spends Christmas day together...chaotic and 
great fun.  Christmas really is for kids!

> For me it's the music.
> 
> I know it's December when I hear carols and popular holiday music.
> 
<snip!>  Nothing personal; I snipped your favourites so the Mod Squad 
won't hurl sharp objects at me for sloppy snipping :) 

By far my favourite carol is The Huron Carol.  Yes, it's as Canuck as 
Canuck can be, but it honestly was my favourite carol before moving 
to England.  Since moving here I've acquired a few more favourites 
such as In the Bleak Midwinter and Little Donkey (both childrens' 
songs, but sung quietly).  Others I've always enjoyed are O Little 
Town of Bethlehem (North American version) and O Holy Night, though I 
never manage to hit the high notes.  

(At the moment my 2 older monsters (aged 3 and 4) are tearing around 
the house singing carols they're learning at school, and if I hear 
Jingle Bells one more time I may nix Christmas altogether.  Down, 
Scrooge, down!)

Now this is an embarrassing confession, seeing as I've grown up with 
classical music...I can't actually name any of my favourite classic 
Christmas music.  Oops.  Even more embarrassing, the CDs are just in 
the next room, but darned if I'm getting off my ample back end to 
check!  When the kids are around their kiddie tape of Christmas songs 
is playing (cue Mommy leaving the room), and in the evening Stu and I 
play our classical music.

At the risk of being flamed by fellow Brits (many of whom I know are 
heartily sick of these songs), I *love* Slade's and Wizard's 
Christmas songs.  Sorry...

:::::Mary Ann ducks to be on the safe side:::::

Meanwhile it's school nativity play time again.  This year I have to 
come up with a shepherd outfit for Gareth, but thankfully Beth's 
school is providing her angel costume.  Kids' nativity plays are an 
absolute scream, but coming up with costumes year after year (why is 
the younger sibling *never* the same character the older sibling was 
the previous year!?) is a pain in the backside.  Never mind, it will 
soon be over.

I'm off to cook tea.  Cheers!

Mary Ann 
(#So here it is, Merry Christmas!  Everybody's having fun#...gads, 
I'd better duck again!!)




From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Sun Dec  2 19:53:07 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber ?)
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 14:53:07 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Favorite Holiday Music?
Message-ID: <F79W2NDKcYXF9x0TbbB00001569@hotmail.com>


Ebony said, with regards to Holiday Music:
>
>What are your favorites?

"Carol of the Bells" will always be my absolute favorite. I don't know 
precisely why I fell in love with it when I first heard it. I think it's the 
rushing rhythm, the way it isn't Happy-Chirpy like so much Holiday music, 
the sound of the bells in the background. Not to say that I don't like 
Happy-Chirpy music, but sometimes it can be a bit much. I'm also very 
partial to "O Holy Night".

My favorite Christmas album is "A Christmas Story" by Point of Grace. It's 
very, very beautiful and the four ladies can really sing.

Which reminds me, it's December no? Time to break out the Holiday music for 
real. I have an aunt who starts listening to Holiday music in August, can 
you believe it?

~Amber

********
http://www.the-tabula-rasa.com

"It may help to understand human affairs to be clear that most of the great 
triumphs and tragedies of history are caused, not by people being 
fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, but by people being fundamentally 
people."

-- Neil Gaiman & Terry Pratchett, Good Omens



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From tina21209 at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  2 20:37:15 2001
From: tina21209 at yahoo.com (Readalie)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 12:37:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Peg's Essays
In-Reply-To: <9udi27+b7ro@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20011202203715.39384.qmail@web9704.mail.yahoo.com>


> Does anyone know where to find  (url link) Peg's essays on the 7 
> virtues,
> and the 7 vices of HP?
> Thanks!
> 
> Here's the link to the essays:
> 
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/ESSAYS%20-%20Peg%20Kerr/
> 
> If that doesn't work, they're in the HP4GU files section...
> 

Wow. These are great. I'm reading SS to my students, and I have been
talking about JKR's character development. These essays really give
me some new ideas. As a fairly new member here, I didn't get a chance
to read these when they were first posted, and am really thankful
that they have been pointed out now. I didn't even know there was a
files section (which will teach me to read all of the fine print and
instructions).

To anyone else who is new here, you might want to check out these
posts and others in the files section of the lists. Enjoy!

Readalie, who is busy thinking of lesson plans and conflict
resolution simulations...

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com



From mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Dec  2 21:37:45 2001
From: mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk (Martin Hooper)
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 21:37:45 +0000
Subject: MWPP Pic...
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011202213633.009e8900@pop.freeserve.net>

Browsing through the galleries at Elfwood - http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se I 
came across this pic of MWPP...

http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/fanq/m/a/macarr3/mwpp.jpg.html

Martin Hooper

AIM:martinjh99 ICQ: 43933602


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From UcfRentLuvr at cs.com  Sun Dec  2 21:44:58 2001
From: UcfRentLuvr at cs.com (UcfRentLuvr at cs.com)
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 16:44:58 -0500
Subject: Favorite Holiday Music?
Message-ID: <4EDEDDD7.322F0875.52A758FC@cs.com>

"Ebony" <ebonyink at hotmail.com> wrote:
What are your favorites?


When I was younger, I really liked "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" and "Santa Claus is Coming to Town."

Now that I'm older, hmm...there are a lot of songs I like. The ones I like best are "O Holy Night", "O Come All Ye Faithful", "Hark the Herald Angels Sing", and "Let it Snow, Let it Snow, Let it Snow."  (Or is it just "Let it Snow"? )

But those are may favorites. :)  There's a radio station here at school and one at home that does this too, but they play nonstop holiday music. It's fun to sing along to--on the radio and at church.

***Dixie Malfoy***




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  2 22:08:26 2001
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 14:08:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Favorite Holiday Music?
In-Reply-To: <9udi2t+2p9l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20011202220826.25764.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Ebony <ebonyink at hotmail.com> wrote:
> It's the music.  Not the food, not the decor, not
> the time off from 
> work, not the snow (oh, please let us have a white
> Christmas again!), 
> not even seeing the family again (I see them lots
> anyway).  For me 
> it's the music.

Actually, I like all of the above. And having spent 5
Christmases without snow (when we lived in Germany), I
echo your sentiments about a white Christmas.
> 
> I know it's December when I hear carols and popular
> holiday music.
> 
> What are your favorites?

I think my favourites change every year. This year
(and, oddly enough, this was my favourite last year)
it's 'Take a Walk Through Bethelem' by Trisha
Yearwood.

I'm also partial to Adestes Fideles (I have it
somewhere by Pavarotti, very nice version) and the
Carol of the Bells (as I have a friend who plays in a
bell choir and I get to hear it performed every year).

Sheryll, trying in vain to catch up on her emails

=====
"We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times."
 blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com



From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  2 22:40:22 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 14:40:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Favorite Holiday Music?
In-Reply-To: <20011202220826.25764.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20011202224022.8171.qmail@web13708.mail.yahoo.com>

Sheryll and Ebony, you both like what I like! I like
all the classic favorites and many of the new. But our
favorites around here are The Muppets Christmas CD!
Love Animal and all of the craziness of the Muppets,
especially when they get with John Denver and the
Twelve Days of Christmas! As crazy as it gets around
here with my 3 Stooges, you should have realized what
we would go for! To include The Chipmunks! Heck, I
still listen to the Jackson's Five Christmas! Drive my
husband nuts! So there you go! The Mallett household
in it's Christmas wildness! Muppets and Chipmunks, and
all of our Birds!

Wanda the Witch and Her Merry Band of Muggles 100%

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com



From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  2 23:25:42 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (Barb)
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 23:25:42 -0000
Subject: Favorite Holiday Music?
In-Reply-To: <20011202220826.25764.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9ued9n+u8g4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Sheryll Townsend <s_ings at y...> wrote:

> I'm also partial to Adestes Fideles (I have it
> somewhere by Pavarotti, very nice version) and the
> Carol of the Bells (as I have a friend who plays in a
> bell choir and I get to hear it performed every year).
> 
> Sheryll, trying in vain to catch up on her emails
> 
> =====
> "We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, 
sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through 
the bad times."
>  blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26

I love the Carol of the Bells, and I like to hear Adeste Fideles 
sung by a children's choir who actually know how to pronounce the 
Latin...I love that I'm beginning rehearsals for the Messiah a week 
from Tuesday (my favorite gig of the year!).   My favorite parts: 
the opening tenor recit/aria, The People That Walked In Darkness, 
Lift Up Your Heads, I Know That My Redeemer Liveth, Thou Art Gone Up 
On High (esp. by a counter-tenor, which is a male alto), If God Be 
For Us, The Trumpet Shall Sound, the Amen, and (natch) the 
Hallelujah Chorus.

We're going to our church's advent party this coming Saturday, and 
this is when we get the opportunity to get together with our friends 
and sing all of the wonderfully schmaltzy Christmas tunes like "The 
Christmas Song" (chestnuts roasting, etc.) and Rudolph, etc., in 
addition to lovely things like "The Coventry Carol" and "O Holy 
Night."

I also love to fill the house with the sound of medieval motets and 
the like (lots of CDs by the Cambridge Singers).  My husband's 
family does a traditional Italian Christmas Eve dinner, and the 
highlight is always playing an LP of "White Christmas" sung in 
Italian!  I can't quite think of the English words any more...

--Barb





From Calypso8604 at aol.com  Sun Dec  2 23:33:07 2001
From: Calypso8604 at aol.com (Calypso8604 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 18:33:07 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Favorite Holiday Music?
Message-ID: <110.9682eaf.293c1433@aol.com>

I'm not really a big fan of Holiday or things associated with them but I do 
like a certain carol. Unfortunately I can't think of the name....I think it's 
Carol of the Bells. I love how that song sounds.


- Calypso


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From genevieve373 at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  3 00:07:14 2001
From: genevieve373 at yahoo.com (genevieve373 at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 00:07:14 -0000
Subject: Favorite Holiday Music?
In-Reply-To: <9udi2t+2p9l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9uefni+hf60@eGroups.com>

One of my favorite albums (and holiday videos) is A Charlie Brown 
Christmas, with music by the Vince Guaraldi Trio.  It just really 
gets me in the holiday spirit!  As far as individual songs, I really 
like Carol of the Bells and Mary's Boy Child.  Also, I love O Holy 
Night, particularly the version sung by Billy Porter on Rosie 
O'Donnell's Christmas album.  *ducks flying ornaments and Christmas 
cookies*  I know some people don't enjoy Rosie, but I do for the most 
part, and her CD is pretty good.  But this song especially is 
Awesome!  When Billy Porter sings O Holy Night (w/o Rosie by the way) 
I get chills running up and down my spine.  The first time I heard 
it, I cried when he hit the high note at the end.

Enough rambling ;)

Happy Holidays!

Jenny 




From tina21209 at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  3 00:33:23 2001
From: tina21209 at yahoo.com (Readalie)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 16:33:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Favorite Holiday Music?
In-Reply-To: <9uefni+hf60@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20011203003323.50267.qmail@web9704.mail.yahoo.com>

It seems like a lot of us gravitate towards some of the same holiday
music. I also love Carol of the Bells and O Holy Night. Some of my
other favorites are What Child is This, We Three Kings, and God Rest
Ye Merry, Gentlemen. Of course, Deck the Halls, Rudolph, and "Linus
and Lucy" from Charlie Brown are also wonderful.

It occurred to me as I types this list that most of my truly favorite
Christmas music is somewhat darker than most carols. I know that God
Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen is written in a minor key, perhaps some of
the others are as well. (I'm not a musician, so don't shower me with
howlers. I'm speaking from an instinct as a listener to music rather
than from knowledge as a singer or player of music.) I find that
while a can really enjoy the schmaltzy Christmas carols the ones that
are my favorite tend to be more solemn. They're more reflective of
the magic and mystery of the season, which is what I love best about
this time of year. (Hmm... maybe that's what I like about Hedwig's
Theme from the soundtrack. It has the same sort of sound to it,
making me think of mystery and magic)

Readalie, who is off to find a book of Christmas Carol sheet music.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com



From scrapbook at holmes.net  Mon Dec  3 00:51:32 2001
From: scrapbook at holmes.net (An Unexpected Caller)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 17:51:32 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Favourite Holiday Music?
In-Reply-To: <110.9682eaf.293c1433@aol.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBKKOCOLBIDECLENBNMEOBCEAA.scrapbook@holmes.net>

While everyone is adding their two cents worth about holiday tunes, I
thought I might as well list mine.

Though I'm 22, my latest favourites are the Muppets Christmas Carol CD,
John Denver & the Muppets, Carol of the Bells, and almost any classic tune
sung by a crooner.  Last year, I even discovered through my mother a
Christian version of the Twelve Days of Christmas sung by Carrol
Roberston.  My favourite new discovery is by Kirk Tally, called
appropriately enough "Fruitcake" and detailing his misadventures with the
holiday standard food.  You haven't really laughed during the holiday
season until you've heard that one.  Another good laugh for me comes from
"Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer".  I enjoy the Christmas standards the
most, but one cannot deny that we all need to lighten up at times.

I believe that there is indeed the occasional "new" Christmas song that is
absolutely fabulous, like those mentioned above or the following.  I sang
a couple of years ago with a mass choir made up of young people between
the ages of 18 and 30 from a church, and we learned a marvellous accapella
(sp?) harmony version of "Old Toy Trains".  Also, a beautiful new SATB
song was written by a talented member of the group that we performed in
public.  Unfortunately, I cannot remember it's title (Heaven's Gift?), but
it had these lines, "And as I reached out to touch Him, I fell to my
knees, I knew that this child was divine, And with all my devotion I'll
offer my heart, Yet Heaven's sweet gift was mine."

I'm not normally one to be sucked into the sentiments of the season
deeply, but music is one thing that I will willingly drift away with,
especially when given the chance to sing with a group, whether it be
family or choir.

--
An Unexpected Caller
aka Shari Thornton
scrapbook at holmes.net
http://scrapbook.holmes.net


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From gypsycaine at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  3 00:57:59 2001
From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 19:57:59 -0500
Subject: Textbook
Message-ID: <007601c17b95$8e3b9ea0$df556c40@Dee>

One for Ebony!

http://www.sptimes.com/News/120101/Pasco/High_school_proceeds_.shtml


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From firefightermichelle at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  3 14:56:11 2001
From: firefightermichelle at yahoo.com (Michelle)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 14:56:11 -0000
Subject: Favourite Holiday Music?
In-Reply-To: <NFBBKKOCOLBIDECLENBNMEOBCEAA.scrapbook@holmes.net>
Message-ID: <9ug3qb+al13@eGroups.com>

My favourite Christmas music is currently anything by the Trans-
Siberian Orchestra, especially their album, Christmas Eve and Other 
Stories.  

It isn't necessarily traditional music, but boy does it sound good!

Other favourites include:  the ever classic, Grandma Got Ran Over By 
a Raindeer ... I listen to country stations JUST to hear that song, 
Away in a Manager (my favourite from childhood, even though I am 
pretty darn Pagan now, it is still a really lovely song).

Michelle <--- whose Christmas will be spent at a Fire Station ... I 
won't be with Family, but I'll at least be with family :)




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Mon Dec  3 17:58:52 2001
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 17:58:52 -0000
Subject: Favorite Holiday Music?
In-Reply-To: <9udi2t+2p9l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ugegs+4po9@eGroups.com>

  You inspired me to dig through our collection and get the 
Christmas stuff out...one of the best things about being in a 
mixed household is we get to help each other celebrate.
The music collection is mixed too: 
Boston Camerata: Renaissance Christmas
The Chieftains: Bells of Dublin
Vince Guaredelli (sp?) LInus and Lucy
and of course The Nutcracker Suite.
  
When I was a teen I liked The Little Drummer Boy, and Do You 
Hear What I Hear

Pippin




From jfaulkne at sas.upenn.edu  Mon Dec  3 18:59:13 2001
From: jfaulkne at sas.upenn.edu (Jen)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 18:59:13 -0000
Subject: Favorite Holiday Music?
In-Reply-To: <9udi2t+2p9l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ugi21+l0pe@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Ebony" <ebonyink at h...> wrote:> 
> What are your favorites?

If I were to list all of the Christmas / holiday music I've either 
heard, sung, or played over the years and loved, we'd be all 
afternoon (and I must go to class in ten minutes *g*).  

I must admit to being crazy about the Beach Boys' Christmas album, 
which my dad would play every year.  (I finally broke down and bought 
it on cd last year, because I missed hearing it at Christmastime.)

I love "Christmas Eve on Sesame Street," particularly "True Blue 
Miracle" and "Keep Christmas With You."  I adore all the Sesame 
Street music. :)

And this will undoubtedly make John cringe, but I adore John Rutter 
and the Cambridge Singers' various Christmas albums.  (Yes, John, I 
am an unrepentant John Rutter fan.  He's far and away the best 
popular church composer working today.  It shouldn't be mistaken 
for 'classical' music, but as far as actual church music goes, it's 
much more interesting than most of what is being written now, and it 
isn't terribly 'global', and he gives sopranos things besides the 
melody. *g*)  The Oxford Carols for Choirs series (ed./arr. by Rutter 
and Willcocks) are simply the best choral arrangements of Christmas 
carols.  

Individual carols, well, I'm very fond of "Tomorrow Shall Be My 
Dancing Day," the "Sussex Carol," "The Boar's Head Carol," "Silent 
Night," the non-American version of "Away in a Manger," "Once in 
Royal David's City" (I've always wanted to be a boy soprano, an 
unfulfilled/able ambition indeed), "Lo How a Rose," but my all-time 
favorite has to be "Torches."  

--jen, off to class humming carols to herself. :)




From tina21209 at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  3 19:05:27 2001
From: tina21209 at yahoo.com (Readalie)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:05:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Favorite Holiday Music?
In-Reply-To: <9ugi21+l0pe@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20011203190527.29061.qmail@web9708.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Jen <jfaulkne at sas.upenn.edu> wrote:
> Individual carols, well, I'm very fond of "Tomorrow Shall Be My 
> Dancing Day," the "Sussex Carol," "The Boar's Head Carol," "Silent 
> Night," the non-American version of "Away in a Manger," "Once in 
> Royal David's City" (I've always wanted to be a boy soprano, an 
> unfulfilled/able ambition indeed), "Lo How a Rose," but my all-time
> favorite has to be "Torches."  
> 

What is the non-American version of "Away in a Manger"? It's one of
my favorites as well, so I'm courious how another version is
different.

Readalie

__________________________________________________
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Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com



From cindysphynx at home.com  Mon Dec  3 21:22:05 2001
From: cindysphynx at home.com (Cindy C.)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 21:22:05 -0000
Subject: Heads-up on the PBS Special on HP
Message-ID: <9ugqdt+3sr5@eGroups.com>

Tonight, my local PBS station is re-broadcasting some sort of HP 
special.  It is the PBS in the Washington, D.C. area.

Just wanted to give a quick heads-up.

Cindy




From starling823 at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  3 10:17:17 2001
From: starling823 at yahoo.com (Starling)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 05:17:17 -0500
Subject: Favourite Holiday Music?
References: <1007367979.526.31885.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <001101c17be3$b1595960$c574e280@cc.binghamton.edu>

Ooooooh.... Christmas music...

the holidays are my favorite part of the year, and much like ebony, it's for
the music -- although the sight of my family's christmas tree, all decorated
and glowing with lights still has the power to bring me to tears -- it's
just too beautiful.  (we decorate with ornaments saved over the years -- our
tree is basically the family history.  it's very personal for us.)

As for songs, a few people have mentioned the John Denver and the Muppets
christmas CD -- yeah!  That has been a favorite since I was a kid.  I also
love the Nutcracker -- my best friend danced Klara several times when I was
a kid, so whenever I hear it, I picture her dancing.  I also love Mannheim
Steamroller's albums -- anyone who hasn't heard their work, they get fairly
heavy radio play in the states.  Some of their stuff is a bit cheesy, but
they have heartbreakingly beautiful versions of "O Holy Night" and "Silent
Night" -- I could go on and on, but I will satisfy myself by *highly*
recommending their CDs, especially "A Fresh Aire Christmas."

As for my favorite song of all -- it's off the John Denver/Muppets Cd --
"Noel - Christmas Eve 1913"  -- I'm not particulary religious/observant (I
am what my pastor calls a Christmas-Easter Christian) -- but this song just
hits something in me, especially the last two lines.  Anyone who has this CD
can prolly understand why I love it so.

A frosty Christmas Eve
When the stars were shining
I traveled for the Lord
Where westward falls the hills
And for many many a village
In the darkness of the valley
Distant music reached me
Peals of bells were ringing

Then sped my thoughts to olden times
To that first of christmtses
When shepards who were watching
Heard music in the fields
And they sat there and they marveled
And they knew they could not tell
Weather it were angels or the bright stars a-singing.

But to me heard afar
It was starry music
The singing of the angels
The comfort of our Lord
Words of old that come a traveling
By the riches of the tides
And I softly listened as I stood upon the hill
And I softly listened as I stood upon the hill.

Now my question -- those who don't celebrate Christmas -- do you enjoy these
songs?  Or are you just tired of the barrage?  (Granted, Rudolph gets
wearing after a while).  Do you have favorites -- and what about you who
celebrate Hanukkah?  Any good Hanukkah songs?  The only one I can think of
is that "Dreidel" song we learned in kindergarden :).

Abbie, who is going to take her dinner in the living room to eat under the
tree.
starling823 at yahoo.com
" 'Not to worry,' she said.  'All you have to do is walk straight at the
barrier between platforms nine and ten.' "
Sorcerer's Stone


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From Calypso8604 at aol.com  Mon Dec  3 22:27:33 2001
From: Calypso8604 at aol.com (Calypso8604 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:27:33 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] RE: Favourite Holiday Music?
Message-ID: <92.1e3a3cd6.293d5655@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/3/2001 5:20:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
starling823 at yahoo.com writes:


> Now my question -- those who don't celebrate Christmas -- do you enjoy these
> songs? 

I am Catholic but I don't celebrate Christmas. Alot of the songs annoy me, 
but even though I'm quite anti-Holidays, I still enjoy a few of them. Carol 
of the Bells for example has been my favorite carol even before I stopped 
celebrating and it will remain my favoritr :-)

Calypso


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From starling823 at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  3 10:22:56 2001
From: starling823 at yahoo.com (Starling)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 05:22:56 -0500
Subject: favorite holiday songs
References: <1007367979.526.31885.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <002101c17be5$269041c0$c574e280@cc.binghamton.edu>

Ohohohoh --- I thought of a fun one :)
warning -- this is sarcastic.  but anyone who took an elbow to the kidney on
line at the mall last weekend ::rubs her back:: will find a bit of humor in
this.  and yes, it will be played to death on the radio looooong before the
25th.  ::shrug::  stale joke carols, anyone? ;).

The 12 Pains of Christmas!

The first thing at Christmas that's such a pain to be is finding a christmas
tree
2nd -- rigging up the lights
3rd - hangovers
4th -sending christmas cards
5th - five months of bills
6 th - facing my in-laws
7th - charities
8th - "daddy i want this one!"
9th - no parking spaces
10th - batteries not included
11th - stale tv specials
12th - singing christmas carols

Abbie, who just turned on the radio to hear a truly frightening arrangement
of "Favorite Things"
starling823 at yahoo.com
" 'Not to worry,' she said.  'All you have to do is walk straight at the
barrier between platforms nine and ten.' "
Sorcerer's Stone


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  3 22:32:20 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (Barb)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 22:32:20 -0000
Subject: Starling's question about Hannukah music (was: Favourite Holiday Music?)
In-Reply-To: <001101c17be3$b1595960$c574e280@cc.binghamton.edu>
Message-ID: <9uguhk+uh6v@eGroups.com>

I was (and am still, really) rather ignorant about Hannukah music, 
but when I was singing in a chorus in college, we learned a 
wonderful round/canon about Judas Maccabeas:

REFRAIN:
Who can we tell the things that befell us?
Who can count them?
In every age a hero or sage came to our aid.
[REPEAT]
Hark! In days of yore in Israel's ancient land,
Brave Maccabeas led the fateful band! 
And now all Israel must as one arise!
[aaak! words I forget] with [forget] and sacrifice!
[REFRAIN AGAIN; REPEAT OVER AND OVER FOR ROUND EFFECT]

I wish I remembered the whole thing, but during this time of year my 
local classical music station will probably play it frequently, and 
I'll just have to pay closer attention this time.  Unless they play 
the version sung in Hebrew, in which case I'll just sit back and 
enjoy the music.  It has a lovely slightly mournful-sounding minor 
cadence (it might be modal, however--don't quote me).  A lot of my 
college friends said they learned it in Hebrew school, so maybe some 
folks on the list did too.

--Barb

Get Psyched Out!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP_Psych
http://schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Mon Dec  3 23:09:42 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 23:09:42 -0000
Subject: Latin translations
Message-ID: <9uh0nm+ob58@eGroups.com>

On the main list, Eric reported Greek and Latin translations of PS/SS 
and wrote:

 > I wanna copy of the Latin edition!

Caius wrote:

>There are many whimsical classisists out there. You can get a Latin 
>translation of Alice in Wonderland at:

>http://www.gmu.edu/departments/fld/CLASSICS/alice.html

>and Looking Glass' Jabberwocky at:

>http://www.gmu.edu/departments/fld/CLASSICS/iabervocius.html

>The songs of Elvis Presley and Winnie-the-Pooh have also been 
>Latinized (though they're not online).

I have the book Winnie Ille Pu.  "Pu," exclamavit Porcellus, "credis 
hoc insuper unum vusillum significare?"

Amy Z




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Tue Dec  4 02:04:51 2001
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 02:04:51 -0000
Subject: Starling's question about Hannukah music (was: Favourite Holiday Music?)
In-Reply-To: <9uguhk+uh6v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9uhb03+8j9n@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Barb" <blpurdom at y...> wrote:
> I was (and am still, really) rather ignorant about Hannukah 
music, 
> but when I was singing in a chorus in college, we learned a 
> wonderful round/canon about Judas Maccabeas:


<snip> Barb wishing she knew all the words

Here they are:

Who can retell,
the things that befell us,
Who can count them?
In every age a hero or sage,
Came to our aid. 

Hark! In days of yore in 
Israel's ancient land,
Brave Maccabeus led the 
faithful band.
But now all Israel must as one arise,
Redeem itself through deed and sacrifice. 


*****
My personal favorite is Peter Yarrow's "Light One Candle"
http://www.peterpaulandmary.com/music/f-14-10.htm


Pippin





From jfaulkne at sas.upenn.edu  Tue Dec  4 02:33:25 2001
From: jfaulkne at sas.upenn.edu (Jen)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 02:33:25 -0000
Subject: Latin translations
In-Reply-To: <9uh0nm+ob58@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9uhcll+a51q@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> haec scripsit:
> I have the book Winnie Ille Pu.  "Pu," exclamavit Porcellus, 
"credis 
> hoc insuper unum vusillum significare?"

Come on, show of hands, who really thought I could stay out of a 
thread like this? *g*  Yeah, that's what I thought. :P

Neo-Latin is a really fun thing.  Winnie Ille Pu is now quite 
venerable (there's been a second volume, *Winnie Ille Pu Semper Ludet 
(The House at Pooh Corner)* released not too long ago), but the best 
contribution of recent years is definitely the Turnbergs' (U Kentucky 
professors) *Cattus Petasatus( (*The Cat in the Hat*), which far and 
away trumps their earlier *Quomodo Invidiosulus Nomine Grinchus 
Christi Natalem Abrogaverit* (*The Grinch*), as it is in a wonderful 
lively meter and is one of the more fun pieces of Latin to read aloud 
I've ever encountered.

Excerpt--

  Imber totum diem fluit
  Urceatim semper pluit.
  Taedet intus nos manere:
  Numquam potest sol splendere,

  Desidesque sic sedemus,
  Nec ridemus, nec gaudemus.
  Forte finem quiescendi
  Mihi spes est et sedendi.

The Classics dep't at Rutgers sings "Rudolphus Rubrinasus" and 
"Ninguat, Ninguat, Ninguat" at their holiday party every year. :)  
I've seen translations of Beatles' songs... all kinds of things.

But all into Latin.  Never Greek.  They actually found someone to 
translate HP into Greek?  Are these proposed translations actually 
confirmed rumors?

--jen, who hopes the Greek part is false, 'cause she'd feel obligated 
to read it in Greek then :)

* * * * * *
Jen's HP fics:
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~jfaulkne/fan/hp.html (URL change!!)
Snapeslash listmom: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/snapeslash
Yes, I *am* the Deictrix.







From jfaulkne at sas.upenn.edu  Tue Dec  4 03:13:36 2001
From: jfaulkne at sas.upenn.edu (Jen)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 03:13:36 -0000
Subject: Favorite Holiday Music?
In-Reply-To: <20011203190527.29061.qmail@web9708.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9uhf10+5dfh@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Readalie <tina21209 at y...> wrote:

> 
> What is the non-American version of "Away in a Manger"? It's one of
> my favorites as well, so I'm courious how another version is
> different.

In that perhaps inaccurate characterization (but not too, I don't 
think) I was thinking of the Kirkpatrick tune ("Cradle Song") as the 
one popular outside of America, vs. the Murray Tune ("Mueller"), the 
one most popular in America.  Kirkpatrick's is the one that opens 
with a rising fourth (c-f-f-g-a-f-f), while Murray's first line is a 
descending scale(c-c-b flat-a-a-g-f-f-e-d-c).  I prefer the 
Kirkpatrick tune.

--jen :)

* * * * * *
Jen's HP fics:
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~jfaulkne/fan/hp.html (URL change!!)
Snapeslash listmom: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/snapeslash
Yes, I *am* the Deictrix.





From starling823 at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  3 21:05:41 2001
From: starling823 at yahoo.com (Starling)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 16:05:41 -0500
Subject: more christmas music
References: <1007454846.291.58507.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <003201c17c3e$44ed3f20$c574e280@cc.binghamton.edu>

ooh....someone mentioned peter, paul, and mary...

anyone from the NYC/LI area, I'm sure, knows what I refer to when I speak of
the Peter, Paul, and Mary christmas special, recorded who knows how many
years ago at Radio City, and rebroadcast endlessely on the local PBS every
year... I used to love that as a kid.
For years, I thought "Puff the Magic Dragon" was a Christmas carol. :)

whoever mentioned "Light One Candle," my eternal gratitude.  I haven't heard
that in ages.  ::scurries off to hunt down an mp3.::

by the way -- all you people who mentioned Charlie Brown (the Vince Guaraldi
soundtrack) -- if i remember correctly, the Charlie Brown Christmas will be
on CBS on thursday the sixth, here in the US.  And may I just taken this
moment to express my sorrow that there are places in the world that have
never seen this fine christmas special?  I will be watching, humming along,
and generally  making a nusiance of myself as my flatmates  and boyfriend
mutter, as they have been all week, about my debatable mental status. :)

Abbie, who inherited a great love of Christmas from her mom, to the dismay
of all her college friends, who are theroughly sick of the Nutcracker
already. :)
starling823 at yahoo.com
" 'Not to worry,' she said.  'All you have to do is walk straight at the
barrier between platforms nine and ten.' "
Sorcerer's Stone


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From heidit at netbox.com  Tue Dec  4 10:30:11 2001
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 05:30:11 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] RE: Favourite Holiday Music?
In-Reply-To: <001101c17be3$b1595960$c574e280@cc.binghamton.edu>
Message-ID: <002201c17cae$c27c3c00$7d85bbd1@HeidiTandySystem>



> -----Original Message-----
> 
> Now my question -- those who don't celebrate Christmas -- do 
> you enjoy these songs?  Or are you just tired of the barrage? 
>  (Granted, Rudolph gets wearing after a while).  Do you have 
> favorites -- and what about you who celebrate Hanukkah?  Any 
> good Hanukkah songs?  The only one I can think of is that 
> "Dreidel" song we learned in kindergarden :).
> 


Some. I enjoy listening to most, although I am much less likely to sing
along with songs that are traditionally Christian. I like secular Xmas
songs a lot - the things on the A Very Special Xmas cds like Santa Baby,
every Rudolph song, I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus - all terrific
songs. And a lot of holiday songs are winter-specific, or wishing a good
holiday to others, like Have Yourself a Merry Little Xmas (although not
the version from Meet Me IN St Louis, as it's sad), or Jingle B



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From heidit at netbox.com  Tue Dec  4 10:33:18 2001
From: heidit at netbox.com (heidi tandy)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 05:33:18 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] RE: Favourite Holiday Music?
In-Reply-To: <001101c17be3$b1595960$c574e280@cc.binghamton.edu>
Message-ID: <002301c17caf$1a0d3a00$7d85bbd1@HeidiTandySystem>



> -----Original Message-----
> 
> Now my question -- those who don't celebrate Christmas -- do
> you enjoy these songs?  Or are you just tired of the barrage? 
>  (Granted, Rudolph gets wearing after a while).  Do you have 
> favorites -- and what about you who celebrate Hanukkah?  Any 
> good Hanukkah songs?  The only one I can think of is that 
> "Dreidel" song we learned in kindergarden :).
> 


Some. I enjoy listening to most, although I am much less likely to sing
along with songs that are traditionally Christian. I like secular and/or
more recently written Xmas songs a lot - the things on the A Very
Special Xmas cds like Santa Baby, every Rudolph song, I Saw Mommy
Kissing Santa Claus - all terrific songs. And a lot of holiday songs are
winter-specific, or wishing a good holiday to others, like Have Yourself
a Merry Little Xmas (although not the version from Meet Me IN St Louis,
as it's sad), or Jingle Bells or Frosty the Snowman or Walking in a
Winter Wonderland - no mention of Xmas in those songs, and we play them
at our annual Chanukah party. And who can't adore John Lennon's Merry
Xmas (War Is Over) or Band Aid's Do They Know It's Christmas? 

So in my case, it's a mix, and it makes for a wonderful holiday season!

heidi tandy
follow me to FictionAlley - Harry Potter fanfics of all shapes, sizes&
ships - only 7 sickles an ounce
http://www.fictionalley.org








From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com  Tue Dec  4 13:34:30 2001
From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:34:30 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] RE: Favourite Holiday Music?
References: <002201c17cae$c27c3c00$7d85bbd1@HeidiTandySystem>
Message-ID: <01ef01c17cc8$67981c90$e500a8c0@shasta>

As usual, by the time I get warmed up to a topic, it's about as interesting
as cold scrambled eggs ... but still, I couldn't help but chime in:

My tastes in music aren't usually much to brag about. I play electric bass
and find that mainstream, top-40s pop has the kind of bass playing I like
best. Heck - I even learned a bass line from a CD by those Hanson boys ...

But round about Christmas time, I get a hankering for older American music.
That's when I want to hear Bing Crosby, big bands, elegantly insouciant song
writing and jazz chords. Rudoloph, Silver Bells, Santa Clause is Coming, the
Toy Shop and Sleigh Ride are some of my favorites. But the very best of all
is the Christmas Song (Chestnuts Roasting ... ) - even if I do get lost
every time I try to sing the funky chord at "folks dressed up like Eskimos."
(Somehow, "everybody knows" always ends up in the wrong key, goll ding it!)

My favorite Christmas album just now is Anne Sophie von Otter's _Home for
Christmas_. (Deutsch Gramaphone '99) What a voice - and what a mix of
classic, jazz, folk and medieval! Her renditions of Deck the Halls (with
accordion and violin) and Tomorrow Will Be My Dancing Day (with brass and
great percussion) are amazing. Barnes and Noble has samples on their site:
http://music.barnesandnoble.com/Search/product.asp?ean=28945968520. (Though
the samples sound awful on my laptop's  speakers.)

Baaaaaa!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray)
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been
bravery...."




From keegan at mcn.org  Tue Dec  4 16:37:49 2001
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 08:37:49 -0800
Subject: Snape in the Chronicle
In-Reply-To: <007601c17b95$8e3b9ea0$df556c40@Dee>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20011204083617.009f8b60@mail.mcn.org>

http://www.sfgate.com/columnists/chonin/

Neva Chonin has a funny column today, 4 December, dedicated to the 
Potterotica - specifically Snape.

Catherine in California



From aprilgc at ivillage.com  Tue Dec  4 18:50:08 2001
From: aprilgc at ivillage.com (aprilgc at ivillage.com)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 18:50:08 -0000
Subject: Favorite Holiday Music?
In-Reply-To: <20011203003323.50267.qmail@web9704.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9uj5t0+8ucu@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Readalie <tina21209 at y...> wrote:
<snip>
> It occurred to me as I types this list that most of my truly favorite
> Christmas music is somewhat darker than most carols. <snip>

I know what you mean. I also like the more solemn songs (as well as the 
cornier ones <g>). My favorite is "Do You Hear What I Hear?" - or at 
least that's what I've always called it. I think that's the title.

Said the night wind to the little lamb,
Do you hear what I hear?

Grr:: This is me, not ready to be in Christmas mode, getting the wind 
and the lamb confused. One hears the song ringing through the night, 
and one sees a star with a tail as big as a kite. The music and the 
delivery give me chills.

On the other hand, I'll be "surfing" the country stations with Michelle 
- driving people crazy with my heartsung renditions of "Grandma Got Run 
Over by a Reindeer" cuz "Some folks say there's no such thing as Santa, 
but as for me and Grandpa we believe".

Lady Leprechaun





From alyeskakc at netzero.net  Tue Dec  4 19:57:44 2001
From: alyeskakc at netzero.net (Kristin)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 19:57:44 -0000
Subject: Snape in the Chronicle
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20011204083617.009f8b60@mail.mcn.org>
Message-ID: <9uj9ro+3bei@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Catherine Keegan <keegan at m...> wrote:
> http://www.sfgate.com/columnists/chonin/
> 
> Neva Chonin has a funny column today, 4 December, dedicated to the 
> Potterotica - specifically Snape.
> 
> Catherine in California


That was quite an amusing article, thanks Catherine. All you Snape 
fans should be very happy. Neva Chonin even takes a little jab at the 
article by Christopher Noxon. It's nice to see at least some people 
in the press can take things with a grain of salt.


Cheers,
Kristin

Whose off to see Behind Enemy Lines instead of Harry Potter for the 
4th time. 




From coriolan at worldnet.att.net  Tue Dec  4 21:09:20 2001
From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 21:09:20 -0000
Subject: HP Cartoon
Message-ID: <9uje20+dev1@eGroups.com>

Mike Locher, editorial cartoonist for the Chicago Tribune, has a good 
HP cartoon:

http://cagle.slate.msn.com/politicalcartoons/pccartoons/archives/loche
r.asp?Action=GetImage

That takes you to the main page - then select Nov 16 on the drop-down 
menu.

  - CMC




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Tue Dec  4 16:18:05 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:18:05 EST5EDT
Subject: Fave Christmas music
Message-ID: <93DD22370C@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

I love the song from Home Alone by John Williams titled 
Somewhere In My Memory.  That's probably my favorite 
Christmas song.

Then there's O Holy Night and Silent Night.  When I was 
still in school I was in the Honors Choir.  We would have 
our Christmas program and they'd turn out all the lights in 
the auditorium, we would then light candles and while the 
tenors and sopranos sang Silent Night, the rest of us would 
sing a song called Peace On Earth.  They mixed together so 
beautifully.  And I love to recall seeing my schoolmates' 
and friends' beautiful faces lighted up by candlelight, 
singing those two songs.

I'm also very fond of I Want A Hippopotamus for Christmas 
and Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas.

Then there's the parody Christmas song called The Restroom 
Sign Said Gentleman that's sung to the tune of God Rest Ye 
Merry Gentlemen.  It's hilarious.  It's about a poor 
unfortunate soul who walks into the ladies restroom and 
then is severely beaten by the women thinking he's being a 
pervert.  Not very Christmas-y but hilarious just the same.

And I love Away In The Manger but it's not the traditional 
music.  It's another version (which I think someone has 
already mentioned).

And TranSiberian Orchestra's Sarajevo Christmas Eve (or is 
it Christmas Eve in Sarajevo?).



Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

2. His homework ate the dog.
          - Top Ten Signs Your Son's A Wizard
            David Letterman



From meboriqua at aol.com  Tue Dec  4 21:23:40 2001
From: meboriqua at aol.com (Jenny from Ravenclaw)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 21:23:40 -0000
Subject: Favourite Holiday Music?
In-Reply-To: <002301c17caf$1a0d3a00$7d85bbd1@HeidiTandySystem>
Message-ID: <9ujess+dmsr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "heidi tandy" <heidit at n...> wrote:
 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > 
> > Now my question -- those who don't celebrate Christmas -- do
> > you enjoy these songs?  Or are you just tired of the barrage? 
> >  (Granted, Rudolph gets wearing after a while).  Do you have 
> > favorites -- and what about you who celebrate Hanukkah?  Any 
> > good Hanukkah songs?  The only one I can think of is that 
> > "Dreidel" song we learned in kindergarden :).

> 
> So in my case, it's a mix, and it makes for a wonderful holiday 
season!>

I have to agree with Heidi, my fellow Jew :-) here.  Christmas music 
is nothing but fun for me.  I love Christmas decorations and that 
holiday feeling I get every year the last week of school before break 
officially starts.  I think Christmas trees are beautiful.

In my school every year, we have a door decorating contest for the 
holidays.  Each Advisory (they're like family groups) compete to 
decorate their door best.  Last year I went nuts with my Advisory; we 
had so much fun putting our door together.  I have been talking about 
our door to my kids since September, because this year we want to win 
(we should have won last year).  It's a way for me to have fun with 
Christmas without any religious innuendos at all.

Of course the Holiday feast at school is delicious too - I can't wait!

--jenny from ravenclaw, who never felt cheated because everyone she 
knew as a kid was Jewish and because she always got eight presents for 
Hanukah ************************************************




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Tue Dec  4 19:09:32 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 19:09:32 EST5EDT
Subject: Seatbelts, people!
Message-ID: <96B92264E9@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

*climbing on soap box and grimacing from the steering wheel 
bruise across my thighs*

I had a car accident this weekend.  A Nissan SUV slammed 
into the side of my car (Geo Prizm) and caused it to spin 
out of control 3 times before it finally came to a stop 
(facing the wrong way).  Needless to say, my car is 
totalled.

BUT....

I and my passenger both walked away with only cuts and 
bruises.  The driver of the SUV was practically untouched.  
We were all wearing our seat belts.  I have a huge seat 
belt bruise that runs across my entire chest (making it 
hard to breath, laugh, cough and I just got over a 10 
minute attack of hiccups....ouch).  Needless to say, the 
belt kept me from slamming into the windshield.  

So...please....buckle up, folks.

*climbing off my soap box and seeing if it could be used as 
a mode of transportation...just need some wheels...steering 
column....hmmmm.....*




Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

2. His homework ate the dog.
          - Top Ten Signs Your Son's A Wizard
            David Letterman



From cindysphynx at home.com  Wed Dec  5 00:39:44 2001
From: cindysphynx at home.com (Cindy C.)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 00:39:44 -0000
Subject: Seatbelts, people!
In-Reply-To: <96B92264E9@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9ujqcg+9lag@eGroups.com>

Rachel wrote:

> *climbing on soap box and grimacing from the steering wheel 
> bruise across my thighs*
> 
> I had a car accident this weekend.  

So glad you're OK, Rachel!  That must have been so scary.  

::Hopping onto Rachel's vacated soapbox::

Yes, yes, yes, wear those seat belts.  I used to do a bit of 
automobile liability defense work, especially concerning airbags, and 
a lot of people think that if their car has an airbag, then seatbelts 
are unimportant.  Wrong.  Gotta wear those belts all the time.  Even 
in the back seat.  Even in a taxi.

::Hopping down off of soapbox::

Cindy 




From firefightermichelle at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  5 01:41:02 2001
From: firefightermichelle at yahoo.com (Michelle)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 01:41:02 -0000
Subject: Favorite Holiday Music?
In-Reply-To: <9uhf10+5dfh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ujtve+1mvd@eGroups.com>

 Kirkpatrick's is the one that opens 
> with a rising fourth (c-f-f-g-a-f-f), while Murray's first line is 
a 
> descending scale(c-c-b flat-a-a-g-f-f-e-d-c).  

I love Away in a Manger, but what does all that alphabet stuff mean?  
I mean, I know it's the notes and everything, but I am musically 
retarded and don't understand!  Could someone explain it to me?

Michelle <--- there's a reason I'm a firefighter and not anything 
artistic!




From john at walton.vu  Wed Dec  5 00:56:33 2001
From: john at walton.vu (John Walton)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 00:56:33 +0000
Subject: ADMIN: Warning: new virus: "Goner"
Message-ID: <B8332141.6786%john@walton.vu>

Hi all.

Got a Windows-running PC? Use Outlook Express? ICQ? IRC? Read on!

Since a few members of the HPFGU community have recently been hit by
viruses, the Moderator Team bring you some advice, courtesy of McAfee.com:

Re: The Goner Virus.

============================================

This is a HIGH RISK virus that spread via Microsoft Outlook and can be
spread via ICQ. This is a mass mailing worm that attempts to send itself to
all entries in the Outlook Address book. The virus will arrive with the
following email message:

Subject: Hi 
Body: 
How are you ? 
When I saw this screen saver, I immediately thought about you
I am in a harry, I promise you will love it!

Attachment: GONE.SCR

============================================

Folks, as always, do NOT, repeat, DO NOT download any file from email unless
you are absolutely positive what it is. This virus uses the .scr file format
(Windows Screensaver), which is apparently very popular among Windows users.

At any rate, you MUST update your virus software. If not, this worm WILL get
through -- and delete your virus software (nasty, isn't it?) and various
bits of your system. Remember, if you are infected, do not use your email
program, IRC or ICQ until you are cleared, otherwise you risk spreading the
virus.

For more information:

www.mcafee.com
www.cert.org
www.symantec.com

Regards,

--John, your Mac-using-yet-antivirus-program-loving Moderator With Rock #47

____________________________________________

There will be an answer, let it be.
        in Memoriam George Harrison.

John Walton -- john at walton.vu
____________________________________________





From firefightermichelle at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  5 01:47:34 2001
From: firefightermichelle at yahoo.com (Michelle)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 01:47:34 -0000
Subject: Fave Christmas music
In-Reply-To: <93DD22370C@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9ujubm+50bm@eGroups.com>

> 
> And TranSiberian Orchestra's Sarajevo Christmas Eve (or is 
> it Christmas Eve in Sarajevo?).
> 
> 

Technically, it is "Sarajevo - 12/24"

I love "A Mad Russian's Christmas" and "An Old CIty Bar" from the 
same album ..... actually, I love the ENTIRE thign!

Michelle ;)




From firefightermichelle at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  5 01:51:51 2001
From: firefightermichelle at yahoo.com (Michelle)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 01:51:51 -0000
Subject: Seatbelts, people!
In-Reply-To: <96B92264E9@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9ujujn+ns79@eGroups.com>

<snip details of accident>

I'm glad you are ok.  And I am totally on your soapbox with you about 
seatbelts .... I have been to so many wrecks where people would have 
been a lot worse off if they hadn't been wearing a seatbelt.  And 
I've been to quite a few where the people probably would have lived 
if they had been wearing their seatbelt.

Of course, my dad never wears his seatbelt and that probably saved 
his life when a lady pulled out in front of him and he t-boned her at 
60mph ... but that is an exception to the rule!!!!

Rachel, bruises go away ... I'm glad nothing worse happened to you! 
(or your passenger)

michelle :)  <--- who wears her seatbelt for the .2 mile drive from 
her mailbox to her parking space on her way home! :)




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  5 02:02:46 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 18:02:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Seatbelts, people!
In-Reply-To: <96B92264E9@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <20011205020246.27618.qmail@web13702.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Rachel Bray <bray.262 at osu.edu> wrote:
> *climbing on soap box and grimacing from the
> steering wheel 
> bruise across my thighs*

Rachel! Your Angels, or whatever your preference is of
Angels, were diffently watching over you and your
friend! I just got a chance to check emails, and yours
is the top of the list! What bad news with some really
great good news to read! Your car can be replaced, you
and the others just have your wounds to heal! You have
a story to tell your grandkiddies now. Please let us
know how you are doing and if you need humor to pass
the time, let me know! Please take care and to let you
know, we all were our belts in the car all the time!

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts who with her
100% Muggles Band want Rachel to heal up with HP  

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com



From amanda at sasquatch.com  Wed Dec  5 02:03:51 2001
From: amanda at sasquatch.com (Amanda Farris)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 18:03:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Favorite Holiday Music?
In-Reply-To: <9ujtve+1mvd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.40.0112041756580.9207-100000@shell.sasquatch.com>

On Wed, 5 Dec 2001, Michelle wrote:

Well w/o being able to play it for you online Michelle, I'm hoping you
know the notes as do-re-mi-fa-so-la-ti-do

>  Kirkpatrick's is the one that opens
> > with a rising fourth (c-f-f-g-a-f-f), while Murray's first line is

I know this tune, but I don't know what key this is in to translate it.

> > descending scale(c-c-b flat-a-a-g-f-f-e-d-c).

I believe this is the Luther/Mueller version.
So you could sing it as:
SO-SO-FA-MI-MI-RE-DO-DO-TI-LA-SO (assuming this is in the key of F major)

>
> I love Away in a Manger, but what does all that alphabet stuff mean?
> I mean, I know it's the notes and everything, but I am musically
> retarded and don't understand!  Could someone explain it to me?
>
> Michelle <--- there's a reason I'm a firefighter and not anything
> artistic!

Don't worry. I sang for 12 years, and it wasn't until year 6 that I
learned how to read music.

Hugs,
Amanda

"Oooh fuuudge! Only I didn't say "Fudge." I said THE word, the big one,
the queen-mother of dirty words, the "F-dash-dash-dash" word!"
                                                     -A Christmas Story

amanda at sasquatch.com




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Wed Dec  5 03:55:45 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:55:45 +1100
Subject: Holidays, carols, apples, maturity, tragic violins
Message-ID: <008501c17d40$f2331ee0$e691aecb@price>

Ahh, back from Adelaide!  Spent a week there, attending an Asia-Pacific Peace and Reconciliation Forum, about which I have (sadly) many cynical observations to make.  But I'll leave that for another time.  Those peaceniks seem to have infected me with the 'flu, but I have nobly soldiered on through the collected posts nonetheless...

I left my OT-Chatter digests on, but switched off my main list and Movie.  Even so I have a lot of ground to cover (and yes, I have now seen the movie twice!  I'll virtuously wait until I've cranked up the Movie list again to comment on the movie itself, but I can gain a certain childish satisfaction by saying that in *both* the cinemas where *I* watched it, the audiences were very quiet and reverent!  No screaming children, no popcorn throwing teenagers, no snide university students... the worst of it was the odd mobile phone novelty ring in the background.  Perhaps Australians are considerate and polite people after all!)

Ebony:
>What are your favorites?  (referring to "holiday" music)

I note that the substitution of "happy holidays" for "Merry Christmas" has progressed well in the US!  As I once mentioned, these days I circumvent the whole Ramadan (on now!)/Christmas/Hannukah issue by sending out religion-neutral Chinese New Year cards.  Has "happy holidays" spread to Canada and the UK?  I've never heard anyone use it here, but that could be because the Jewish community is much larger and more vocal in the US than it is here.  My non-Christian friends mostly seem to shrug off the Christmas cards and wishes they receive without any major objections (though a Canadian Jewish friend I once had would pointedly reply to "Merry Christmas" with "Happy Hannukah").  Any thoughts?

As for Christmas carols, my favorite has always been "Good King Wenceslaus", mostly because it tells a story.  I also like "Once in Royal David's City".  What's this Carol of the Bells?  (is it another name for 'Ding Dong Merrily on High'?)  My tastes in Christmas carol renditions are staunchly traditional, I fear.  I'd much rather sing 'em straight with harmony than grit my way through a department store blasting it customers with "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, bee ba baloo bop doodoodoodoo" sung by a jazzed up children's show presenter with guitar synth and drums.  Yik.

Frankis & Sons:
> I don't know whether applying a word meaning 'apple' to the forbidden 
fruit is widespread in Europe or whether it is restricted to 
countries (mainly northern?) in which the apple is generally thought
of as the commonest or most representative fruit.<

You know, I could never buy this apple as the Forbidden Fruit concept.  Sorry serpent, but an apple would not tempt me in the slightest.  Of all the boring fruit!  Apples, to me, are the sort of uninspired fruits you buy in the depths of winter when nothing else is available, and they have to be absolutely pristinely fresh and crunchy to be of any interest.  Now, if it were a mango, or a passionfruit, or a peach or something, then we might be in business...

Ali quoting Evelyn:
> >Slash themes also seem to be at odds with writing within the
>boundaries of the HP world as well.  None of the characters have
>exhibited any sort of sexual preference besides heterosexual in the
>>books.
>
>Actually, that's not really true.  I, for one, was veeeerrrrry interested in 
>the fact that Justin Fitch-Fletchly (so sorry if I spelled that wrong) was 
>the only male student to take a liking to Gilderoy Lockheart.  

I still think Karkarov might be gay, meself, but I've expounded this theory with evidence on the main list a couple of times with no chorus of agreement, so it could just be me.  I've also said many times that I doubt that JKR will raise the sexuality issue directly, but I wouldn't particularly condemn her for this, because after all, in a conservative, co-educational school like Hogwarts most non-heterosexual students and teachers would probably be falling over themselves to keep their sexuality quiet.  It's reasonably realistic.  There were quite a few students and teachers at my (conservative) secondary school who were gay or bi, but I had only vague suspicions about this until after I graduated, because they were all keeping a lowish profile about the issue.  As well they might have, in my school.  Sure, some teenagers come out in high school, but not many, and I can't see this happening at Hogwarts.

Sofie:
> in the fourth book (first major romance 
overtones) Harry and co are aged fourteen/fifteen. They aren't 
children, they are young adults.<

Ahaa, now this brings us back to a topic I raised a couple of months ago which never got anyone going: at what age do people become "adults" or "mature", and why?  At risk of offending younger listmembers (though judging from e.g. Calypso's comments about younger HP lists, they may even agree with me!), I think at 14-15 there's a big range of maturity.  Sure, some mid-teen people are mature, but some are still kids.  Part of the issue is that middle class Western society limits the range of life experience 14-15 year olds can have by locking them up in school until their mid to late teens, where they tend to get treated as children (depending on the school, of course, but largely) and forced to interact with large numbers of people of their own chronological age, whether this suits them or not.  Some will be exposed to more varied life experiences through other sources (or even their school, depending on where it is and what it's like), but a lot won't.  When I visited my school after leaving it I marvelled at the degree to which the school students' world was defined by the school environment.  And how much mine had been as well, though I didn't realise it when I was actually there (and would have been insulted if someone had told me so).

Perhaps you could differentiate "cognitive" maturity (ability to reason intelligently, etc.), from "experiential" maturity.  The law is obviously making this kind of distinction, what with the different ages at which people are supposedly mature enough to drive, have sex, vote, drink and so on.  All very interesting.  At what age does the State decide that the majority of people are mature enough to make a good judgment about these things?  Are they saying that driving take maturity of reflexes and cognitive judgment which is accessible at 15-16, but that people do not have the experiential maturity to judge who should rule the country until they turn 18?

Age of consent (to revive another old topic) is particularly interesting, as it's presumably trying to juggle the age of onset of sexual maturity (onset 10-14ish) with the age at which someone could reliably be assumed capable of making a good judgment about their choice of partner, their readiness to consent to sexual activity, and so on.  I know that the legal age limit has been decreed our guide in this area, but I was still a bit perplexed when people on the Movie list seemed to treat this as something divinely instituted, with any tampering with it considered blasphemous and shocking.  It's just the State's arbitrary Best Guess!  The age 16, or 18 or whatever is based on social norms and opinions and the age at which almost all people can be *assumed* to be sexually mature and of reasonably sound judgment, not something carved in stone!  As I think John mentioned, a lot of people are sexually active well before the age of consent, at least partly because the age of consent is several years later than the onset of sexual desire.  As for the naivete/mature judgment factor, being over 18 isn't some magical spell which protects people from being abused and exploited by their sexual partners: some 20 year olds are much more naive and vulnerable than some 16 year olds.  I know some examples of both myself.  I once tutored a 17 year old schoolgirl who had 4 years' sexual experience and was far more streetwise than some of the shy, vulnerable 25 year olds I knew (who wouldn't be protected nearly as well under the law)!  Obviously we have to draw the line somewhere, to stop disgusting manipulative adults preying on children, but I don't think the issue is as clear cut as "any sexual activity involving under 18s is filthy pedophilia" in real life.

More Ali:
> I have no problem with people's taste differing from mine, but it 
really tweaks me when they form such a concrete and 
unfavourable opinion of something they know nothing about.  
Like friends *koff* of mine who would lay into me about reading 
Harry Potter just because it was popular and supposedly written 
for children.<

Yes, this infuriates me as well.  For me, the immense popularity of Harry Potter is one of its most entertaining characteristics.  Whenever I read yet another article about how well all things HP are selling, and how rich JKR is becoming (an author, no less!), I positively cheer them on.

storm:
> Tabouli told very sad story about meeting Antonia Forest (...) who sounds like she
was unable/unwilling to contribute anything to her side of the
conversation.  Hell's bells Tabuli, she was the grown up, she could have helped
you out! You poor bugger! well deserved the tragic violins.<

Thanks for the sympathy, storm, though in all fairness I *was* 26 at the time...!  (mind you she was 83 or so)  I think it was more a matter of both of us feeling shy and awkward, making us behave in ways that made us feel more shy and awkward.  Over the years I'd trained myself to go into a kind of loud manic vivacity when feeling shy (I've tried to untrain this reaction in the last three years, because it tends to backfire on me), and I think this intimidated her.  Which intimidated me, and made me still more strainingly hyper, and so on.  Ick.  I think she's secretly quite a shy, reclusive old lady.

What do other people do in moments of shyness/insecurity?

Tabouli.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From firefightermichelle at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  5 04:19:20 2001
From: firefightermichelle at yahoo.com (firefightermichelle)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 04:19:20 -0000
Subject: moments of shyness
In-Reply-To: <008501c17d40$f2331ee0$e691aecb@price>
Message-ID: <9uk788+8e81@eGroups.com>

> 
> What do other people do in moments of shyness/insecurity?
> 
> Tabouli.
> 
Don't ask why I feel so up to typing tonight ... I haven't a clue ;)

When I am feeling particularly shy or in a moment of awkwardness ... 
I make jokes.  I try to make everyone laugh, which usually lightens 
everything up and breaks down whatever barriers are there.  Most of 
the time it works, the rest of the time, I just end up looking like a 
huge ass and want to kick myself repeatedly, or at least smash my 
fingers in the oven door a couple of times.  

I am usually pretty insecure, but have gotten really good at hiding 
it, so I can use myself as the butt of jokes to make others laugh.  
While some may say this is very self-destructive, I figure it isn't a 
good day unless I've made someone smile.  If I happen to cut on 
myself in the process, so be it.

Of course, this all just pertains to me ... I think there are a lot 
of people in my profession that use humour as an escape.  I mean 
really, who can deal with this much injury, sickness and disaster 
without snapping except the sick and twisted people of emergency 
services?

ANyway, the whole point?  Make 'em laugh, they'll be on your side 
after that :)

Michelle :)  <--a smile a day keeps the sociopathic behavior away :)

p.s.  yes, I'm done cluttering your (our) list for now :)

p.p.s.  Rachel, may I recommend a nice massage to help relieve the 
tension and soreness you are going to have from your accident?  I 
know first hand how much it sucks the next couple of days.  If you 
can't get a good massage, get some nice psychotropics ... they always 
help :)  (yes, I'm kidding!)




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  5 04:44:00 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (jenP_97)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 04:44:00 -0000
Subject: Seatbelts, people!
In-Reply-To: <96B92264E9@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9uk8mg+n62g@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:

<snipped story of recent accident>

Oh, Rachel, I hope you feel better soon, and I'm really glad you're 
okay!  My hubby and I were in an accident a few years ago, and I can 
really tell how much more paranoid in the car I am.  I'm glad to hear 
that though your Prizm was totalled, you came through a crash with an 
SUV relatively unhurt - makes me feel better because *we* have a 
Prizm, too, and I'm constantly afraid of SUVs hitting us.

Again - so glad you're able to let us know that you're okay!

Jen (who always wears her seatbelts, no matter how far she's driving)




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Dec  5 10:43:52 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 10:43:52 -0000
Subject: Merry Christmas, apples
In-Reply-To: <008501c17d40$f2331ee0$e691aecb@price>
Message-ID: <9uktp8+7sm4@eGroups.com>

Tabouli:

> I note that the substitution of "happy holidays" for "Merry 
Christmas" has progressed well in the US!  As I once mentioned, these 
days I circumvent the whole Ramadan (on now!)/Christmas/Hannukah 
issue by sending out religion-neutral Chinese New Year cards.  
Has "happy holidays" spread to Canada and the UK?  

> a Canadian Jewish friend I once had would pointedly reply to "Merry 
Christmas" with "Happy Hannukah").  Any thoughts?

I think, apart from municipalities which have to consider their 
entire religious constituency, the average atheist/agnostic Briton 
will say Happy Christmas.  It used to be 'Merry Christmas and a Happy 
New Year', but Happy has gradually supplanted Merry, possibly because 
of connotations of drunkenness.  This creates problems for the longer 
phrase, of course, so cards often say things like 'prosperous' for 
the new year. (Our card industry assumes that people are illiterate, 
so most cards you can buy have a printed greeting - I assume it's the 
same elsewhere.)

I would find it odd specifically wishing a Jewish friend Happy 
Hannukah, because it's just one of several festivals - it would, in 
effect, be implicitly endorsing the Christmasisation of Hannukah.  Of 
course, if we went round wishing 'Happy ***' for every Christian and 
non-religious festival, that would be different.  Christmas is really 
the only time of year, I think, when Brits would grudgingly admit 
that they might be concerned about the happiness of other people 
(except to enviously put a stop to it).
> 
> You know, I could never buy this apple as the Forbidden Fruit 
concept.  Sorry serpent, but an apple would not tempt me in the 
slightest.  Of all the boring fruit!  Apples, to me, are the sort of 
uninspired fruits you buy in the depths of winter when nothing else 
is available, and they have to be absolutely pristinely fresh and 
crunchy to be of any interest.  Now, if it were a mango, or a 
passionfruit, or a peach or something, then we might be in business...

Hm.  How many types of apple have you had the chance to try?  What 
about really decent Cox's? Russets?  At our old house we had an apple 
tree that produced apples that tasted unlike anything you can buy in 
the shops (ie nice!) - but went rotten within a few days of picking.  
I love fresh ripe peaches, but have only ever eaten them on holiday 
in the Balkans.  I don't believe I have ever eaten mango as it is 
supposed to be.  Fruit is like cheese - there's some wonderful stuff 
to be had, but finding it is the problem, and I don't believe apples 
are any exception.

David




From sofie_elisabeth at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Dec  5 11:43:09 2001
From: sofie_elisabeth at yahoo.co.uk (sofie_elisabeth)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 11:43:09 -0000
Subject: Non-Controversial FanFic Question
In-Reply-To: <9u8vus+50l2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ul18d+6a2t@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., puddlemereunited at y... wrote:
> I was just wondering if anyone else kept certain actors in mind 
> while writing characters in Fanfiction?  

I've been writing a fanfic set when Harry is mid-thirties. I've been 
imagining him as Johnny Depp in sleepy Hollow. Hermione is Kate 
Winslet as she was in Titanic and Remus (mid-fifties) is Harrison 
Ford as he is now. I'm so glad that other people do this!





From mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Dec  5 10:51:42 2001
From: mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk (Martin Hooper)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 10:51:42 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Seatbelts, people!
In-Reply-To: <96B92264E9@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011205105042.009ec270@pop.freeserve.net>

At 19:09 04/12/01, you wrote:
>I had a car accident this weekend.  A Nissan SUV slammed
>into the side of my car (Geo Prizm) and caused it to spin
>out of control 3 times before it finally came to a stop
>(facing the wrong way).  Needless to say, my car is
>totalled.
>
>BUT....
>
>I and my passenger both walked away with only cuts and
>bruises.

Glad to hear that Rachael...  Mind you not wearing seatbelts is illegal in 
the UK...  What is it where everyone else is..?  Just wondering!


Martin Hooper
AIM:martinjh99 ICQ: 43933602


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From gypsycaine at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  5 12:12:49 2001
From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (GypsyCaine)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 12:12:49 -0000
Subject: 2 missing virtues?
Message-ID: <9ul301+qvem@eGroups.com>

In reviewing (and "save target as"-ing) Peg's essays, I've noticed 
that there are 7 vices, but only 5 virtues listed.  Are we missing 
two?  I thought she had finished the series entirely.

Odd.

Dee
Who has:
7ds Anger
7ds Covetousness
7ds Envy
7ds Gluttony
7ds Lust
7ds Pride
7ds Sloth
***********
7hv Charity
7hv Faith
7hv Fortitude
7hv Hope
7hv Justice

(well, NOT literally! Lol!)




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Dec  5 13:15:58 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 13:15:58 -0000
Subject: Seatbelts, people! (and unbelievable stupidity)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011205105042.009ec270@pop.freeserve.net>
Message-ID: <9ul6me+u42k@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Martin Hooper <mat at h...> wrote:
> >I and my passenger both walked away with only cuts and
> >bruises.
> 
> Glad to hear that Rachael...  Mind you not wearing seatbelts is 
illegal in 
> the UK...  

First of all, I'm so glad to hear you're all right.  I've been 
rearended twice in my driving career.  Both times the car (my dad's!) 
was totalled, and both times I walked away with just a few bruises.  
I still owe my Guardian Angel a crate of beer.

Yes, Martin, wearing seatbelts may be illegal here, but how many 
people still don't do it?  The most extraordinary story I've ever 
heard on this subject is from a 999 (British 911) operator.  A coach 
was driving behind a car with four kids literally bouncing around the 
back seat; no one was strapped in.  They exited the motorway and 
approached the roundabout, and when the car in proceded on to the 
roundabout a 2-year-old boy *fell out the back door window*.  The 
coach driver reacted by driving his vehicle *over* the child (who was 
small enough to fit between the wheels) and stopping, so that is was 
not possible for any other vehicle to come in contact with the 
child.  By the time the emergency services arrived the so-called 
father was banging on the door of the coach, threatening and yelling 
at the coach driver for parking his coach over the boy!!  By the 
grace of Someone Up There the boy was completely unharmed, and I can 
only hope that social services were called in to, at the very least, 
give the parents a few parenting tips.

As my friend always says, you need a licence to fish, but anyone can 
become a parent.

Incredible...

Mary Ann
(Whose car *never* leaves the driveway until everyone is strapped in 
safely)  




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Wed Dec  5 08:38:12 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 08:38:12 EST5EDT
Subject: Seat Belt laws in the US
Message-ID: <A433D94D13@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

It is not a National law for seat belts.  It's state-by-
state.  Ohio has a seat belt law.  And I think the only 
state that doesn't have a seat belt law is New 
Hampshire.....but I could be wrong.

Anyone know if there is a state that doesn't have a seat 
belt law?

(I also have a problem with no helmet laws.  It's not 
illegal to ride your motorcycle in Ohio without your 
helmet......go figure.)

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

2. His homework ate the dog.
          - Top Ten Signs Your Son's A Wizard
            David Letterman



From bray.262 at osu.edu  Wed Dec  5 08:41:54 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 08:41:54 EST5EDT
Subject: You all inspired me!
Message-ID: <A443516AAC@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

So....last night I got home and got out all my Christmas 
CDs.  :-)

And it reminded me that I forgot a couple favorites.

John Lennon - Happy Christmas (War is Over)
The Kinks - Father Christmas
ELP - I Believe in Father Christmas

and...of course....with my love of Duran Duran, Paul Young 
and Sting...

Do They Know It's Christmas

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

2. His homework ate the dog.
          - Top Ten Signs Your Son's A Wizard
            David Letterman



From naama_gat at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  5 16:59:53 2001
From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naamagatus)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 16:59:53 -0000
Subject: Interesting article on Salon re: Harry and sex
In-Reply-To: <9u8rdm+a27l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9uljq9+mknu@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., cassandraclaire at m... wrote:
> 
> Anyone else read this?
> 
> http://www.salon.com/sex/turn_on/2001/11/29/harry/index.html
> 
> Cassie


Hi Everybody (and New Members). (My aplogies for posting a really 
grumpy message after such a long absence, but as Shakespeare said "to 
thine own self be true"... ;))

I hope I'm not expressing a very unpopular point of view, but I have 
to say that I agree completely with the writer's estimation of the 
movie (although I thought the sex thing complete rubbish). It really 
is a "wretched, craven movie". I saw it about a week ago, and the 
further I am from it, the more I resent it. And for the record - I 
saw it with three other friends who also thought it sucks.

Although there are specific weaknesses (in the acting, for instance), 
they are not my main bitching point. No movie is perfect and failings 
can be outweighed by other, redeeming qualities. But this movie lacks 
vision, inspiration, love. I wouldn't have believed it of myself - 
but I actually found myself thinking that I would prefer a movie that 
violated the book if it was only made with some kind of vision (even 
if the interpretation was completely contradictory to mine).
As it is, it's quite startling how void the movie is. A purely 
mechanical rendition of the story, carefully and unimaginatively 
following the steps of the plot (with a few glaring missteps even 
there!), wrapped in some visual effects. 

My only hope now is the LOTR movie. Is it any comfort that my 
expectations are so low now that it's virtually impossibe for me to 
be disappointed? <very deep sigh>


Naama





From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Wed Dec  5 13:52:21 2001
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 13:52:21 -0000
Subject: Seatbelts, people! (and unbelievable stupidity)
In-Reply-To: <9ul6me+u42k@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ul8ql+9qrv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "macloudt" <macloudt at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Martin Hooper <mat at h...> wrote:
> > >I and my passenger both walked away with only cuts and
> > >bruises.

Rachel, we're so relieved that you weren't hurt,  And of course this is an 
important time of year to be especially careful.  I myself have TWICE been a 
passenger in cars that had Christmas-season  head-on collisions with drunk 
drivers.

> a 2-year-old boy *fell out the back door window*.  

I have TWICE seen car doors pop open, and a young child go flying out, on the 
streets of Boston.  In one case, the driver was making a U-turn in the middle 
of a traffic intersection.  She just scooped up the child and drove away, 
without checking whether he was hurt.  My stomach still churns at the 
thought.




From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  5 19:07:20 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber ?)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 14:07:20 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] moments of shyness
Message-ID: <F159AOAkK5LqN33HFnw000073bd@hotmail.com>


Tabouli asked:
>What do other people do in moments of shyness/insecurity?

*shrug* I clam up and get out of the way. And if someone forces me to speak, 
I stutter and pause and generally appear stupid until they eventually leave. 
I don't intend to appear stupid, mind, but I come across that way. Or maybe 
I actually do become stupid as it usually feels that my brain has left to go 
out for a mocha anyways...

~Amber

********
http://www.the-tabula-rasa.com

"It may help to understand human affairs to be clear that most of the great 
triumphs and tragedies of history are caused, not by people being 
fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, but by people being fundamentally 
people."

-- Neil Gaiman & Terry Pratchett, Good Omens

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  5 19:10:45 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 19:10:45 -0000
Subject: Seat Belt laws in the US
In-Reply-To: <A433D94D13@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9ulrfl+vciq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> It is not a National law for seat belts.  It's state-by-
> state.  Ohio has a seat belt law.  And I think the only 
> state that doesn't have a seat belt law is New 
> Hampshire.....but I could be wrong.
 
Well, that certainly puts the state motto (which appears on the 
license plates) in a new and even more disturbing light.  The NH 
state motto is "Live Free or Die."  I hate to wonder what their 
traffic accident fatality stats are...

We don't own a car, but whenever I get into someone else's, I buckle 
up and I make the kids buckle up.  I have to be very careful of cars 
with passenger-side airbags, though, since I'm just under 5'4" and 
for women my size and for children and babies in car seats, these 
air-bags deploying have sometimes resulted in fatalities ( from 
broken necks).  I don't know why they can't design them to inflate 
less violently, but if there is a passenger-side airbag, I'm happy 
to sit in the back seat...

So glad you're all right, Rachel!  It WOULD be good for there to be 
a national seat-belt law, but I'm not sure that the Constitution 
makes it possible.  The lawyers on the list will have to weigh in on 
that; my memory about the jurisdiction is faulty...

--Barb

Get Psyched Out!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP_Psych
http://schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb




From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Wed Dec  5 19:23:24 2001
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 19:23:24 -0000
Subject: Seat Belt laws in the US
In-Reply-To: <9ulrfl+vciq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9uls7c+act6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "blpurdom" <blpurdom at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> I think the only 
> > state that doesn't have a seat belt law is New 
> > Hampshire.....but I could be wrong.
>  
> Well, that certainly puts the state motto (which appears on the 
> license plates) in a new and even more disturbing light.  The NH 
> state motto is "Live Free or Die."  I hate to wonder what their 
> traffic accident fatality stats are...

NH's mortality rate is actually below average -- 1.2 deaths per 100,000 miles 
driven; the national average is 1.5.  

The statistics are very counter-intuitive.  Massachusetts, renowned for its 
terrible "Boston drivers," has the lowest fatality rate.  Wyoming is 
third-highest, even though there are so few drivers out there to run into each 
other!  Looks to me like driving speed must be a major factor..

http://www.unitedhealthgroup.com/sr2000/components/lifestyle/motor.html




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  5 18:09:16 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 18:09:16 -0000
Subject: Seat Belt laws in the US
In-Reply-To: <A433D94D13@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9ulnsc+ufvt@eGroups.com>

Rachel wrote:

> It is not a National law for seat belts.  It's state-by-
> state.  Ohio has a seat belt law.  And I think the only 
> state that doesn't have a seat belt law is New 
> Hampshire.....but I could be wrong.
> 
> Anyone know if there is a state that doesn't have a seat 
> belt law?
> 

Don't know if it's the only one, but New Hampshire doesn't.  When you 
enter the NH on the interstate highway you see a nice little sign 
recommending that buckling up is a good idea.  "Live free or die," you 
know (or in this case, live free AND die).

Rachel, I'm very, very glad you're okay.

Amy




From cindysphynx at home.com  Wed Dec  5 20:51:53 2001
From: cindysphynx at home.com (flojocoe2001)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 20:51:53 -0000
Subject: Seat Belt laws in the US
In-Reply-To: <9ulrfl+vciq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9um1d9+6so7@eGroups.com>

Barb wrote:

>I have to be very careful of cars 
> with passenger-side airbags, though, since I'm just under 5'4" and 
> for women my size and for children and babies in car seats, these 
> air-bags deploying have sometimes resulted in fatalities ( from 
> broken necks).  I don't know why they can't design them to inflate 
> less violently, but if there is a passenger-side airbag, I'm happy 
> to sit in the back seat...
> 

I learned about this in my days of airbag defense work.  If you're an 
adult seated on the passenger side and are belted, the passenger side 
airbag is not much of a threat.  In the media hysteria about airbag 
risks, little attention was paid to the fact that the overwhelming 
majority of adults injured or killed by airbags were simply not 
belted.  If you're not belted, you'll move toward the bag at 35 mph 
while the bag is moving toward you at over 100 mph.  That's bad.

If you belt yourself up front and move your seat as far back as it 
will go, you'll be just fine up front on the passenger side.  The 
issues on the driver's side are different, so I won't get into them.  
The rules are different for kids, of course.  (But the back seat is 
the safest for everyone, as you mentioned).

Cindy (also 5'4" and proud of it)




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  5 21:10:29 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (jenP_97)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 21:10:29 -0000
Subject: Good news, bad news...
Message-ID: <9um2g5+uj2c@eGroups.com>

Hi, all.  I have a *very* OT thing to ask...

Yesterday, my hubby and I (and Ginger, of course) went to my Dr. and 
were confirmed as new OB patients - yes, I'm finally pregnant again 
after a year of trying.  Hopeful due date is around the beginning of 
August, but will schedule a c-section for late July.

However... here's the bad news part.

I woke up in the middle of the night last night with severe pain on 
my left side.  Of course, being hormonal and everything, I'm thinking 
bad thoughts - miscarriage, ectopic pregnancy, etc.  Luckily, I 
scheduled my first real OB appt. for *today* (!), so I just hobbled 
to my Dr's office to complain after perhaps 3 hours of restless 
sleep.  There's nothing to be done at the moment - I have to do some 
more bloodwork on Friday to make sure the baby's growing normally, 
and I have my first ultrasound scheduled for next Wednesday.

Could you guys just send me some well-wishes or good thoughts or 
prayers or whatever your preference?  I'm really worried (as all 
hormonal pregnant women are), and this baby has been wanted for a 
long time, now... we're VERY excited, but don't want anything to go 
wrong.

Jen (who is hoping to feel better, but doesn't think that watching 
Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure on Comedy Central is going to help 
- laughing hurts!)




From mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Dec  5 21:41:46 2001
From: mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk (Martin Hooper)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 21:41:46 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Good news, bad news...
In-Reply-To: <9um2g5+uj2c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011205214103.009fd940@pop.freeserve.net>

At 21:10 05/12/01, you wrote:
>Could you guys just send me some well-wishes or good thoughts or
>prayers or whatever your preference?  I'm really worried (as all
>hormonal pregnant women are), and this baby has been wanted for a
>long time, now... we're VERY excited, but don't want anything to go
>wrong.

Hey Well Done - Gonna call the little en Harry or Hermoine...? ;)

{{{{{{{{ Jen }}}}}}}}}}}}   Hope all goes well...  And no watching Bill and 
Ted will not help as it is a very funny film...  Personally though I like 
the 2nd one which I have on video...

Hmmm Must dig it out again sometime!


Martin Hooper
AIM:martinjh99 ICQ: 43933602


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  5 21:45:36 2001
From: virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com (virtualworldofhp)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 21:45:36 -0000
Subject: Not-sexy Snape (reply from HPfGU-Movie)
Message-ID: <9um4i0+1mcb@eGroups.com>

Tabouli wrote: (in HPfGU-Movie)

I have been preparing carefully for my next comment. Not only have I
donned my
bullet-proof vest and suit of armour, I have also erected a
electrified barbed
wire fence around my concrete bunker and hidden inside it bearing a can of
Mace. Because... I didn't find Alan Rickman particularly sexy! (gasps of
horror and fury and cries of vengeance from all and sundry Snape
fans). Before
I reinforced my fence with a pack of three headed dogs, let me hastily
say that
his *acting* was good, and his *voice* is gorgeously deep and melodious.
However, he didn't do it for me physically at all. Too old, too
chunky, too
stiff around the neck (I agree with the high collar comment). Neither
did he
fit my mental image of Snape. Snape is younger, more gaunt, his hair is
shoulder length and greasy. Plus I didn't go for the "no foolish wand
waving"
speech while striding briskly into the classroom. Feels all wrong to
me. If I
were CC, I'd have had him pause silkily, one eyebrow raised, in the
doorway,
while the students fell silent, and then make his way slowly and
deliberately
to the front of the room and *then* quietly, coolly begin his speech.
I know
the film was long and they had to hurry along what they could, but
CC's version
lost a lot of Snape's gravitas IMO.

(Tabouli adds a couple of Norwegian Ridgebacks to the roof of her concrete
bunker)

I would like to join you there, Tabouli, as I have never found Snape
attractive in any form or fashion.

And, Daniel IS an absolute cutie-patootie...I wasn't to sure about his
looks in the very first pre-shooting shots of the actors, but did you
see him at the premiere?!  Adorable...now only if he could be about 5
years older...;-)

-Megan (who is really pissed at Yahoo!'s for changing things around again)

**now residing in Tabouli's bunker, complete with Joanne's Biggerstaff
poster, new pictures of Daniel, and some really handy Invisibility
Cloaks**




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Dec  5 21:49:02 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 21:49:02 -0000
Subject: Good news, bad news...
In-Reply-To: <9um2g5+uj2c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9um4oe+pg0l@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "jenP_97" <jenP_97 at y...> wrote:
> Hi, all.  I have a *very* OT thing to ask...
> 
> Yesterday, my hubby and I (and Ginger, of course) went to my Dr. 
and 
> were confirmed as new OB patients - yes, I'm finally pregnant again 
> after a year of trying.  

WOW, congratulations!! :) 

> However... here's the bad news part.
> 
> I woke up in the middle of the night last night with severe pain on 
> my left side.  Of course, being hormonal and everything, I'm 
thinking 
> bad thoughts - miscarriage, ectopic pregnancy, etc.

Ooh, those hormones are such great fun, aren't they?  I didn't just 
grow horns, I had a full set of antlers...

  Luckily, I 
> scheduled my first real OB appt. for *today* (!), so I just hobbled 
> to my Dr's office to complain after perhaps 3 hours of restless 
> sleep.  There's nothing to be done at the moment[...] 
> 
> Could you guys just send me some well-wishes or good thoughts or 
> prayers or whatever your preference?  I'm really worried (as all 
> hormonal pregnant women are), and this baby has been wanted for a 
> long time, now... we're VERY excited, but don't want anything to go 
> wrong.
> 

Jen, prayers are on the way for you.  I can certainly understand your 
worries; I miscarried my first pregnancy towards the end of the first 
trimester and with my 3 subsequent pregnancies (all resulting in 
healthy monsters) I never relaxed 'til well into the second 
trimester.  Try your best to relax, and take good care of 
yourself...you deserve it :)  Go for advice at your local 
health/holistic store as to what herbal teas and aromatherapies would 
benefit you now (they can also tell you what *not* to use during 
pregnancy as some natural products can cause complications).  
Meanwhile enjoy your movie and reread all your HP books for the 
ultimate in relaxation!

Cheers!

Mary Ann
(who's all excited at becoming a cyberauntie again!)
 




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Wed Dec  5 22:09:40 2001
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 22:09:40 -0000
Subject: Good news, bad news...
In-Reply-To: <9um2g5+uj2c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9um5v4+da2j@eGroups.com>

Jen,
  All my thoughts and prayers for you and child-to-be. Don't be 
afraid to bug your doctor if there's *any * change before your next 
appointment.  Email me if you need to (I've been through this). 
Love and hugs.

Pippin




From nethilia at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  5 22:52:37 2001
From: nethilia at yahoo.com (Tasha--Nethilia)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:52:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Digest Number 449
In-Reply-To: <1007367979.526.31885.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20011205225237.91572.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com>


>    From: "Amber ?" <inviziblegirl at hotmail.com>

> "Carol of the Bells" will always be my absolute
> favorite. I don't know 
> precisely why I fell in love with it when I first
> heard it. I think it's the 
> rushing rhythm, the way it isn't Happy-Chirpy like
> so much Holiday music, 
> the sound of the bells in the background. Not to say
> that I don't like 
> Happy-Chirpy music, but sometimes it can be a bit
> much. I'm also very 
> partial to "O Holy Night".

> ~Amber

Mine too! I love Carol of the Bells, walk around
humming it all day. I also like "What Child is This",
even though I'm agnostic. The tune's what I like most.
I also like Rudolph. But that's really about it. 

--Neht 


=====
--Nethilia de Lobo--
79% obsessed with Harry Potter
Wand: Dragon Heartstring, Ash, 7 inches
**Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus.**

http://www.geocities.com/spenecial
Spenecial.com. Two girls. One Website. Total Chaos.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From nethilia at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  5 22:53:10 2001
From: nethilia at yahoo.com (Tasha--Nethilia)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:53:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Christmas music
In-Reply-To: <1007367979.526.31885.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20011205225310.62269.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


>    From: "Amber ?" <inviziblegirl at hotmail.com>

> "Carol of the Bells" will always be my absolute
> favorite. I don't know 
> precisely why I fell in love with it when I first
> heard it. I think it's the 
> rushing rhythm, the way it isn't Happy-Chirpy like
> so much Holiday music, 
> the sound of the bells in the background. Not to say
> that I don't like 
> Happy-Chirpy music, but sometimes it can be a bit
> much. I'm also very 
> partial to "O Holy Night".

> ~Amber

Mine too! I love Carol of the Bells, walk around
humming it all day. I also like "What Child is This",
even though I'm agnostic. The tune's what I like most.
I also like Rudolph. But that's really about it. 

--Neht 


=====
--Nethilia de Lobo--
79% obsessed with Harry Potter
Wand: Dragon Heartstring, Ash, 7 inches
**Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus.**

http://www.geocities.com/spenecial
Spenecial.com. Two girls. One Website. Total Chaos.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From amy at pressroom.com  Wed Dec  5 22:57:57 2001
From: amy at pressroom.com (Amy Gourley)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 17:57:57 -0500
Subject: Bertie Bott's every flavor beans
References: <9um5v4+da2j@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <004401c17de0$481a1620$b17ba8c0@amy>

Where can I buy Bertie Bott's every flavor beans? I used to see them at stores but don't remember which ones. Now that I want to buy them, I can't seem to find them!

Amy



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From amanda at sasquatch.com  Wed Dec  5 22:59:40 2001
From: amanda at sasquatch.com (Amanda Farris)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:59:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Bertie Bott's every flavor beans
In-Reply-To: <004401c17de0$481a1620$b17ba8c0@amy>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.40.0112051459080.17901-100000@shell.sasquatch.com>

On Wed, 5 Dec 2001, Amy Gourley wrote:

> Where can I buy Bertie Bott's every flavor beans? I used to see them at stores but don't remember which ones. Now that I want to buy them, I can't seem to find them!
>
> Amy

I saw them in K-Mart this weekend.


Hugs,
Amanda

"Oooh fuuudge! Only I didn't say "Fudge." I said THE word, the big one,
the queen-mother of dirty words, the "F-dash-dash-dash" word!"
                                                     -A Christmas Story

amanda at sasquatch.com




From firefightermichelle at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  6 01:09:03 2001
From: firefightermichelle at yahoo.com (firefightermichelle)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 01:09:03 -0000
Subject: Motorcycle helmet laws
Message-ID: <9umgff+q9c3@eGroups.com>

In Florida, we are really dumb.  We have this huge thing every year 
in Daytona Beach called, "Bike Week" ... guess what that entails?  
Yup, hundreds of thousands of motorcycles riding around showing off.  

Our helmet law goes like this.  You have to wear a helmet.  Unless 
you take out an extra $100,000 insurance policy, then you don't have 
to wear a helmet.  

Does that seem silly to anyone but me?

Michelle <--whose daddy would never let her get a motorcycle 'cause 
he broke both of his legs on one ... I told him *I* wouldn't 
crash!!! :)






From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Thu Dec  6 02:40:24 2001
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 02:40:24 -0000
Subject: Motorcycle helmet laws
In-Reply-To: <9umgff+q9c3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9umlqo+n7m2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "firefightermichelle" <firefightermichelle at y...> 
wrote:
>  You have to wear a helmet.  Unless 
> you take out an extra $100,000 insurance policy, then you don't have 
> to wear a helmet.  
> 
> Does that seem silly to anyone but me?

That IS a puzzler!  Perhaps it's so the cyclist's survivors are less likely to end 
up on welfare?




From potterlovingash at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  6 02:43:11 2001
From: potterlovingash at hotmail.com (potterlovingash)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 02:43:11 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter Article in Barnard Bulletin
Message-ID: <9umlvv+9pbs@eGroups.com>

Hello All,
      Just wanted to boast a little bit. An article came out today in 
the Barnard Bulletin (which is circulated through all of Columbia 
University) all about Harry Potter and how it has attracted older 
readers. The writer left a message on my machine right before 
Thanksgiving saying she had heard my name from so many people as 
being connected to Harry Potter that she thought she would call. So I 
wrote her an email responding to questions and giving her information 
about the fandom and how HP4GU had been in the New York Times.
      Anyway, the article came out today and it was very well 
written! It plugged HP4GU more than I ever imagined (she obviously 
did research) and it put the books in a very appealing light. I was 
very pleased. *blush* She also used quite a few of my responses. I 
checked to see if the article was up on the webpage, but it looks as 
if the site has not been updated in months. 
      But, all of Columbia University now knows what an "amazing" 
group of people you all are.

~Ashley~




From john at walton.vu  Thu Dec  6 02:48:05 2001
From: john at walton.vu (John Walton)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 02:48:05 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Good news, bad news...
In-Reply-To: <9um5v4+da2j@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B8348CE5.695B%john@walton.vu>

Jen, please know that you and your family (especially Piersol No. 4) are in
my thoughts, and I'm sending lots of good, healthy feelings your way. Try to
keep your outlook positive, and don't be afraid to ask for emotional support
from friends, real life and online, as well as your MD, Ob/Gyn and their
support staff. We -- and they -- are here to help at all times of the day
and night.

(I will refrain from giving specific advice on pregnancy. Something tells me
that I'm not best qualified to comment...:D)

Love, hope and strength,

--John

____________________________________________

There will be an answer, let it be.
        in Memoriam George Harrison.

John Walton -- john at walton.vu
____________________________________________





From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  6 03:15:08 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 19:15:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Good news, bad news...
In-Reply-To: <9um2g5+uj2c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20011206031508.53302.qmail@web13705.mail.yahoo.com>


--- jenP_97 <jenP_97 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi, all.  I have a *very* OT thing to ask...
> 
> Yesterday, my hubby and I (and Ginger, of course)
> went to my Dr. and 
> were confirmed as new OB patients - yes, I'm finally
> pregnant again 
> after a year of trying!

Hey, Jen, will diffently send all positive thoughts
and prayers your way! You have to keep a very positive
outlook too! Nothing but Happy Thoughts on the
wonderful life inside you right now! I will email you
my experience with Wiliam, he is my cardiac son who is
doing great! He's 14! So keep relaxed as best you can
and reach out for cyber hugs!

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Very
Merry Band of Muggles 100%

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From keegan at mcn.org  Thu Dec  6 03:46:06 2001
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 19:46:06 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Bertie Bott's every flavor beans
In-Reply-To: <004401c17de0$481a1620$b17ba8c0@amy>
References: <9um5v4+da2j@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20011205194415.00a95aa0@mail.mcn.org>

At 05:57 PM 12/5/01 -0500, Amy wrote:
>Where can I buy Bertie Bott's every flavor beans?

I've seen them at video stores.  You can also order them directly from 
jelly belly online.http://www.jellybelly.com/

Have fun.  Avoid sardine.  Nasty stuff.

Catherine in California




From sayruhbeff at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  6 08:11:14 2001
From: sayruhbeff at yahoo.com (sayruhbeff)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 08:11:14 -0000
Subject: Seatbelts, people! (and unbelievable stupidity) & a question for all...
In-Reply-To: <9ul8ql+9qrv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9un972+ntea@eGroups.com>


> 
> > a 2-year-old boy *fell out the back door window*.  
> 
> I have TWICE seen car doors pop open, and a young child go flying 
out, on the 
> streets of Boston.  In one case, the driver was making a U-turn in 
the middle 
> of a traffic intersection.  She just scooped up the child and drove 
away, 
> without checking whether he was hurt.  My stomach still churns at 
the 
> thought.

When I was 5, my seat belt was too tight and i decided to take it 
upon myself to re-belt it.  Alas, the door was not latched properly 
due to the front seat belt being in the way, so we hit a curve and I 
toppled out the door with my booster seat.  I sailed a few feet 
before skidding to a halt on pea size gravel and to this day can't 
kneel or apply pressure to my knees without the nerves going haywire 
from the "road burn" I got.  My mother was hysterical because she ran 
over my booster seat while she tried to stop and thought it was me. I 
was pretty much okay except for the abraisions and pebbles stuck to 
me (kinda like when you sleep on your arm and the weave of your 
sweater is imprinted). I now am adamant about having my seat belt not 
only on but prefectly adjusted before I trek off anywhere.

I also wanted to ask an overall group question:

Where, do you suppose, the American School(s) of Witchcraft are 
located?

I figured there may be at least 2 due to the sheer size of the 
country.

thanks
sarahbeth




From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Thu Dec  6 13:22:22 2001
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 13:22:22 -0000
Subject: American schools
In-Reply-To: <9un972+ntea@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9unree+8d7c@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "sayruhbeff" <sayruhbeff at y...> wrote:
 
> Where, do you suppose, the American School(s) of Witchcraft are 
> located?
> 
> I figured there may be at least 2 due to the sheer size of the 
> country.

Agreed, there would probably be more than one.  The population of the UK is 
roughly 60 million, so the US is 4 or 5 times as big and could have that many 
schools.  Places with appropriate mystical/legendary auras would include:

Salem, MA for sure! (but lacking in the isolation that played a prominent role 
in siting Hogwarts)

Four-corners area in the Southwest

Swamps of Louisiana

Mountains of Appalachia, especially West Virginia

Sasquatch country in the Northwest

Noplace in California -- too much muggle weirdness there!




From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Thu Dec  6 15:15:47 2001
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 15:15:47 -0000
Subject: American schools/New Zealand
In-Reply-To: <9unree+8d7c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9uo233+h66n@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "joanne0012" <Joanne0012 at a...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "sayruhbeff" <sayruhbeff at y...> wrote:
>  
> > Where, do you suppose, the American School(s) of Witchcraft are 
> > located?

OK, I feel a little silly replying to my own post, but I have JUST learned about 
efforts to establish a school of witchcraft and wizardry in New Zealand.  
Check out this guy's credentials, CV and philosophy!   Also, I really like his 
south-end-up map.




From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Thu Dec  6 15:16:40 2001
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 15:16:40 -0000
Subject: American schools/New Zealand
In-Reply-To: <9uo233+h66n@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9uo24o+m6io@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "joanne0012" <Joanne0012 at a...> wrote:

> OK, I feel a little silly replying to my own post, but I have JUST learned 
about 
> efforts to establish a school of witchcraft and wizardry in New Zealand.  
> Check out this guy's credentials, CV and philosophy!   Also, I really like his 
> south-end-up map.

And NOW I feel like a COMPLETE fool, for forgetting to include the link.  Here it 
is, and now I'm going to eat some chocolate and take a nap.

http://www.wizard.gen.nz/




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu Dec  6 15:30:09 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 15:30:09 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter and the Stuffed Ferret
Message-ID: <9uo2u1+ek43@eGroups.com>

I was listening to the radio the other day, and they were 
interviewing a retired diplomat (can't remember his name but he had 
just published an autobiography which broke some arcane secrecy 
rule).  He mentioned that former Foreign Secretary (US translation: 
Secretary of State) Robin Cook had a number of items in his office, 
intended to convince visitors of British invention, contribution to 
the world etc.  He mentioned several things but the only ones to 
stick in my mind were parts of an aeroplane (bits of our a/c industry 
*are* still just about up there with the best), a Harry Potter book, 
and a stuffed ferret.

They didn't say which book, and there was lengthy discussion of the 
ferret, which established that nobody had the faintest idea why it 
was there, and that nobody had ever mustered the courage to ask Cook 
about it.

Do you suppose Mortlake works for the Muggle Foreign Office? Or is it 
a portent for Draco?

Apparently the current incumbent, Jack Straw, a noted philistine 
(apologies to Palestinian listies), has removed the exhibits.

David




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  6 16:06:01 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 16:06:01 -0000
Subject: Good news, bad news...
In-Reply-To: <9um2g5+uj2c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9uo519+g47c@eGroups.com>

Jen P wrote:

> Could you guys just send me some well-wishes or good thoughts or 
> prayers or whatever your preference? 

All of the above are coming your way.  And hugs, too.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Jen & baby}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Amy




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  6 16:08:28 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 16:08:28 -0000
Subject: American schools
In-Reply-To: <9unree+8d7c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9uo55s+o1mi@eGroups.com>

Joanne suggested:

> Sasquatch country in the Northwest

Bigfoot for DADA professor!

Amy




From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Thu Dec  6 19:09:21 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 19:09:21 -0000
Subject: Please don't put me on the stage...! 
Message-ID: <009301c17e89$98d50080$af3570c2@c5s910j>

Hi gang!

I've just spent three days on a management course at The Industrial Society,
which culminated in a final task in which each group had to make up a
performance piece to motivate an imaginary staff.  I *loathe* this sort of
thing with a passion, but - oh deary me -  everyone had to be involved...

We decided on a really lame theme of baking a cake called "Motivation" (it
gets worse).  One of our number penned some lines of doggerel based on such
motivational things as "incentives", "praise" and "personal development,"
while another drew cartoons of each topic on flipchart sheets.

The idea was that we would recite our our the poem, screw up the
motivational ingredients, and drop them into our mixing bowl (a disguised
waste bin).  Meanwhile, our "chef", a hyperactive woman resplendent in a
paper-bag chef's hat (labelled Pukka!) would mix them up with a spoon made
of a rolled up magazine and a squashed plastic cup.  At the end, we planned
to produce a drawing of a cake and sing "Motivate Your Staff - Come On!" (to
the tune of "Celebrate").

My reluctant role was as a backing singer and dancer.  Three of us stood
behind the unfolding scene described above, singing lines from songs, such
as "I cain't get no... moti-vation," "Praise you...!" and "You're simply the
BEST!" and doing something that could have been a natty, Supremes-like dance
routine had we not bumped into each other and stared at our feet the whole
time.

I sent myself on this course: how stupid is that?

Neil
Flying Ford Anglia






From aprilgc at ivillage.com  Thu Dec  6 19:32:36 2001
From: aprilgc at ivillage.com (ladylprekaun)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 19:32:36 -0000
Subject: American schools
In-Reply-To: <9unree+8d7c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9uoh4k+o9iq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "joanne0012" <Joanne0012 at a...> wrote:
<snip>
> 
> Noplace in California -- too much muggle weirdness there!

I was going to suggest New York and California for precisely that 
reason! There are enough "weirdos and freaks (ala Vernon)" in those two 
states to mask any activity by the Wizard community. If you put the 
schools on movie lots, you don't have to explain stray magic to the 
Muggles. You don't really even have to mask the school with magic, just 
regular security, and cast the spell so they don't question how long 
the "movie's" been in production.

It wouldn't surprise me that some annual prank (probably by some Gred 
and Forge -like students) is responsible for the continuous stream of 
remakes that seems to be plaguing the movie industry. It also occurs to 
me that we just humbly believe "The People Who Know" when they tell us 
that the ocean goes neon at certain times of the year because of 
algae...hmm.

JMHO

Magically yours,

Lady Leprechaun





From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  6 19:53:11 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 19:53:11 -0000
Subject: Please don't put me on the stage...!
In-Reply-To: <009301c17e89$98d50080$af3570c2@c5s910j>
Message-ID: <9uoib7+3902@eGroups.com>

Neil wrote: <account of a grueling motivational course>

One thing that does NOT motivate staff is requiring them to do things 
like this.  Which, IMO, automatically eliminates the presenters of 
this program from the list of people who know a damn thing about 
motivation.

Amy
who finds bribes of chocolate far more motivating than praise or 
personal development




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Thu Dec  6 20:22:20 2001
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catorman)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 20:22:20 -0000
Subject: Please don't put me on the stage...!
In-Reply-To: <9uoib7+3902@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9uok1s+gro1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "lupinesque" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> Neil wrote: <account of a grueling motivational course>
> 
> One thing that does NOT motivate staff is requiring them to do 
things 
> like this.  Which, IMO, automatically eliminates the presenters of 
> this program from the list of people who know a damn thing about 
> motivation.
> 
> Amy
> who finds bribes of chocolate far more motivating than praise or 
> personal development

I agree - particularly with the chocolate part.

What a gruesome way to spend three days!  It's as bad as those 
horrible Outward Bound courses some companies see fit to send their 
(usually fat and middle aged like my husband) management on.  I 
wonder if any companies have been sued for doing this, as the 
excercise has given the participants dodgy knees, if not something 
worse such as a heart attack?

Catherine




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  6 21:27:36 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 13:27:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Please don't put me on the stage...!
In-Reply-To: <009301c17e89$98d50080$af3570c2@c5s910j>
Message-ID: <20011206212736.91655.qmail@web13702.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Neil Ward <neilward at dircon.co.uk> wrote:
> > to produce a drawing of a cake and sing "Motivate
> Your Staff - Come On!" (to
> the tune of "Celebrate").
> 
> My reluctant role was as a backing singer and
> dancer.  Three of us stood
> behind the unfolding scene described above, singing
> lines from songs, such
> as "I cain't get no... moti-vation," "Praise
> you...!" and "You're simply the
> BEST!" and doing something that could have been a
> natty, Supremes-like dance
> routine had we not bumped into each other and stared
> at our feet the whole
> time.
> 
> I sent myself on this course: how stupid is that?
> 
> Neil
> Flying Ford Anglia


Sounds like it would have made a really funny video
for one of those Funniest Videos Shows! Sort of like
The Little Rascals type of show! All shows are priced
at $1.00 to get in! Just look at the humor side of it,
and be glad it is over! Another chapter of your life
that you got through and can now laugh back at! Just
to get up there took real courage and to go through
the routine, give yourself a lot of credit for that!
Hey, be proud and hold your head up and think to
yourself, "You did it!"

Proud of you too!

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Very
Merry Band of Muggles 100%

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From shine090 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  6 21:49:38 2001
From: shine090 at yahoo.com (shine090)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 21:49:38 -0000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <9uop5i+q629@eGroups.com>


 Hi! This is my first post and I hope it's well-recieved.  I'm 
 looking forward to your responses.
 
 
 I have noticed tht despite the large differences in Lord of the 
Rings and HP they seem to remind me of one another. Tolkien created 
an in depth world,but Rowling has written a great story. I especially 
see a similarity between Dumbledore and Gandalf.  Do you think 
Rowling 'borrowed' some ideas from Tolkien?  If so what are they?  
Also, which book/series do you prefer?
 
 Although I loved HP I have to say that LOTR is my all time 
favorite. I believe that LOTR has more depth than HP.  Although that 
may not be fair to say because Rowling is not trying to create a 
whole world, she is simply telling an amazing story!
 
 -Shine090





From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  6 21:54:37 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 21:54:37 -0000
Subject: The Onion and HP
Message-ID: <9uopet+d1p9@eGroups.com>

If you haven't seen the Onion's latest take on the Harry Potter 
craze, here's the url: 

http://www.theonion.com/onion3744/harry_potter_craze.html
 
--Barb





From ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  6 22:11:23 2001
From: ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com (reinakata02)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 22:11:23 -0000
Subject: a favor...
Message-ID: <9uoqeb+cj7o@eGroups.com>

Hi folks, I need your help with something.
I have a friend in Italy who is working on a class project where she 
has to present a list of typical Christmas foods from different 
countries.  If you're not from the US (I already took care of that 
one) could you help me out?
You can post them here or email me at ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com.  Thanks 
in advance!
~Kaitlin




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Dec  6 22:22:01 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 22:22:01 -0000
Subject: Please don't put me on the stage...!
In-Reply-To: <009301c17e89$98d50080$af3570c2@c5s910j>
Message-ID: <9uor29+fijm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Neil Ward" <neilward at d...> wrote:
> Hi gang!
> 
> I've just spent three days on a management course at The Industrial 
Society,
> which culminated in a final task in which each group had to make up 
a
> performance piece to motivate an imaginary staff.  I *loathe* this 
sort of
> thing with a passion, but - oh deary me -  everyone had to be 
involved...

<snip stuff that no decent human being should be forced to do>

Oh, gads, Neil, I must admit to having a good giggle at your message, 
but at the same time I cringed with embarrassment for you.  I've 
never had the "pleasure" of going on one of these courses, but I know 
I would just wish that a hole would open up in the floor and swallow 
me.  It's like a Harry Enfield sketch, isn't it!?

> I sent myself on this course: how stupid is that?

OK, you had a momentary lapse of sanity, but take heart in the 
thought that you have warned the rest of us to avoid these courses 
like the plague and to fake heart failure if ever we're supposed to 
go on one of these courses.

"Pukka"...oh, puh-lease!!  Can't stand Jamie Oliver anyway.  Now sit 
yourself down with a large glass of anything alcoholic and relax.  
You've earned it :)

Cheers!

Mary Ann :)




From triner918 at aol.com  Thu Dec  6 22:30:56 2001
From: triner918 at aol.com (triner2001)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 22:30:56 -0000
Subject: Seatbelts, people!
In-Reply-To: <96B92264E9@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9uorj0+347o@eGroups.com>

"Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> > So...please....buckle up, folks.
> 

Chiming in with my own seatbelt testimonial here.  I've been in 3 
pretty wicked accidents and walked away from them due to the wearing 
of seatbelts.  Twice my little car was totalled (one Chevy Nova and 
one Ford Tempo), but I was okay.  And that's all that matters.  

Trina
> 




From puddlemereunited at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Dec  6 23:00:03 2001
From: puddlemereunited at yahoo.co.uk (puddlemereunited)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 23:00:03 -0000
Subject: Latest Chapter of My Fanfiction...
Message-ID: <9uot9j+sa1v@eGroups.com>

I am pleased to announce that I have finally uploaded the latest 
chapter of my first Fanfiction, "Lads' Day Out".  
	It is the story of Hagrid and Sirius, and a day they spend in search 
of diversion.
	It is a parody written in the style of Irvine Welsh (he of 
Trainspotting fame), and paints the two wizards as brutal Quidditch 
hooligans.
	Also appearing, and not so out-of-character, are: Snape (with a new
a startling hobby), Arthur Weasley (and his thought on things erotic), 
and Dumbledore (may be OOC, but we have never seen him drunk in the 
canon).
	The story takes place in the grey space between GoF and book V, 
meaning that when book V comes out we will learn why this story can 
never take place.
	It is rated "R", so if you are under 17 you will have to have your 
mother read it to you (according to the reviews this has already 
happened).  If you are offended by the sort of harsh language and 
violence favored by football hooligans, please refrain from reading.
	There is no sex, no romance, and no sweetness.  Indeed there is 
nothing in this story to make anyone feel warm and gooey, and no 
character suffers from cuteness.
If you have a Fanfiction.net account please review the story...so far 
it is 3 positive reviews to 2 negative.  And two brave souls have 
even read up to chapter III.
I ask you not to review the story in this group as it will just get
in the way of real posts.  If you do not have a fanficton.net account 
then please e-mail me with your thoughts.
I look forward to your input!

http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=11466

Cheers!
Evelyn




From cindysphynx at home.com  Fri Dec  7 00:13:23 2001
From: cindysphynx at home.com (flojocoe2001)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 00:13:23 -0000
Subject: The Onion and HP
In-Reply-To: <9uopet+d1p9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9up1j3+38e0@eGroups.com>

Barb wrote:

> If you haven't seen the Onion's latest take on the Harry Potter 
> craze, here's the url: 
> 

Uh oh.  Some of that must have from our discussions of HP.  I think 
there is a spy lurking on the board.

Cindy 




From pbnesbit at msn.com  Fri Dec  7 00:51:57 2001
From: pbnesbit at msn.com (harpdreamer)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 00:51:57 -0000
Subject: Good news, bad news...
In-Reply-To: <9uo519+g47c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9up3rd+eu9o@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "lupinesque" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> Jen P wrote:
> 
> > Could you guys just send me some well-wishes or good thoughts or 
> > prayers or whatever your preference? 
> 
> All of the above are coming your way.  And hugs, too.
> 
> {{{{{{{{{{{{{{Jen & baby}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
> 
> Amy

Jen P, 

I join Amy in sending well-wishes, good thoughts, prayers, and hugs.  

Peace & Plenty, 

Parker 




From virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  7 01:01:24 2001
From: virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com (virtualworldofhp)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 01:01:24 -0000
Subject: Latest Chapter of My Fanfiction...
In-Reply-To: <9uot9j+sa1v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9up4d4+p25n@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "puddlemereunited"
<puddlemereunited at y...> wrote:
> I am pleased to announce that I have finally uploaded the latest 
> chapter of my first Fanfiction, "Lads' Day Out".  
> 
> http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=11466

I can't find it anywhere, Evelyn!  I tried searching by title &
clicking on that link, but neither worked. :-(

Poo, 'cause now I really want to read it. ;-)

-Megan





From Calypso8604 at aol.com  Fri Dec  7 01:38:00 2001
From: Calypso8604 at aol.com (Calypso8604 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 20:38:00 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: The Onion and HP
Message-ID: <8c.1094afaa.29417778@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/6/2001 7:15:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
cindysphynx at home.com writes:


> Barb wrote:
> 
> > If you haven't seen the Onion's latest take on the Harry Potter 
> > craze, here's the url: 
> > 
> 
> Uh oh.  Some of that must have from our discussions of HP.  I think 
> there is a spy lurking on the board.
> 
> Cindy 


^_^...I laughed at the part about a therapist saying adult readers of 
supposed children's books are beginning to become unhinged. I showed my mom 
and told her she was becoming unhinged and she rolled her eyes. This is why I 
am wary of psychiatrists....Alot of them (I'm not saying ALL...Just all the 
ones I've known.) jump to conclusions or assume. 

Calypso


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From puddlemereunited at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Dec  7 02:38:17 2001
From: puddlemereunited at yahoo.co.uk (puddlemereunited)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 02:38:17 -0000
Subject: Latest Chapter REAL LINK
In-Reply-To: <9up4d4+p25n@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9upa2p+psit@eGroups.com>

Sorry about that link!  Grrrrrr!
Yahoo has a tendecy of cutting the bottom off all my posts, so I have 
to add my closing back on.  This time it snipped the final number of 
my link and I didn't realise.  Sorry!

Here is the real link:

http://fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=114663

The Author name is: Evelyn Ransom
The Story is: "Lads' Day Out"

I can usually find it by searching Fanfiction.net for stories 
involving Sirius, under parody.  It's a crime but they don't accept 
Hagrid as a main character for classification of stories!

Cheers!
Ev




From mediaphen at hotmail.com  Fri Dec  7 07:42:58 2001
From: mediaphen at hotmail.com (Martin Smith)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 08:42:58 +0100
Subject: HP in latin (from main list)
References: <1007627903.1009.16773.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <DAV17tcu4r7fnJqcuEf000184f6@hotmail.com>


--- In HPforGrownups at y..., Elizabeth Dalton <Elizabeth.Dalton at E...>
wrote:
> Soo... in the Ancient Greek version, they could leave the spells in
> Latin, I suppose (though it would be chronologically weird), but
what
> are they going to do with the spells in the Latin version? It would
be
> pretty weird to leave them as is. (And might not be correct Latin,
> either-- JKR did say that she did the research for their names on
her
> own.)

>raolin replied:
>There's not really any language that is to Latin what Latin is to
>us.  Maybe they could cast them in Proto-Indo-European?  ;)


And I say, how about Quenya? And maybe Uruk for the unforgivable curses.
Yeah, that's it...

Martin (less than two weeks till the premiere)






From klaatu at primenet.com  Fri Dec  7 07:17:06 2001
From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 00:17:06 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] 2 missing virtues?
In-Reply-To: <9ul301+qvem@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJPGEHBDBAKHGIBPOOELGEMAA.klaatu@primenet.com>

Peg Kerr never completed the series... I believe her publisher was
pressuring her to work on her next book. :)  However, she did just post #6
on Temperance, message #29889 posted on November 24.  It hasn't been
uploaded to the files yet.

SML (aka Danemead)


-----Original Message-----
From: GypsyCaine [mailto:gypsycaine at yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 5:13 AM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] 2 missing virtues?


In reviewing (and "save target as"-ing) Peg's essays, I've noticed
that there are 7 vices, but only 5 virtues listed.  Are we missing
two?  I thought she had finished the series entirely.

Odd.

Dee
Who has:
7ds Anger
7ds Covetousness
7ds Envy
7ds Gluttony
7ds Lust
7ds Pride
7ds Sloth
***********
7hv Charity
7hv Faith
7hv Fortitude
7hv Hope
7hv Justice

(well, NOT literally! Lol!)



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From frantyck at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  7 15:03:43 2001
From: frantyck at yahoo.com (frantyck)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 15:03:43 -0000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <9uqlof+ood7@eGroups.com>

Hi, all. The article below was sent to me by someone, without full 
citation or a link. There is an author's name attached, however, so I 
hope that's all right.

---------------------------------

The Philosopher's Stone 
02/12/2001 

The magic of Harry Potter that turned celluloid into gold for Robert 
Matthews 

I have never read the books, don't like the toys and find the 
publicity exasperating, but I still ended up being dragged along to 
see Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone last week. I have to say 
that I emerged from the cinema with just as daft a grin on my face as 
those on the posse of children with whom I was with. 

On the way home, there was the inevitable discussion about the 
reality of the philosopher's stone, capable of transmuting base 
metals into gold. Alchemists down through the ages have described it 
as red in colour. In Harry's hand near the film's end, it looked like 
a chunk of translucent red plastic - in other words, strikingly 
similar to all the other garish trash gushing from the film's 
merchandising operation. 

Then again, alchemists seeking the philosopher's stone did indeed 
make such a substance during their arcane experiments. Quite what 
they got up to is now largely a mystery because of fears at the time 
that they would succeed. During the fourth century, the Roman emperor 
Diocletian ordered the suppression of alchemical texts out of concern 
that they might contain the means of ruining the gold market, thus 
debasing the empire's currency. 

A great deal of alchemical knowledge was thus lost for ever. Not all 
of it was mumbo jumbo; during their searches for the philosopher's 
stone, alchemists discovered techniques and compounds that are still 
valued today. Isaac Newton became fascinated with the subject in his 
late twenties, and used its many supposed recipes to search for 
metals for his newly-invented reflecting telescope. Not even Newton 
could create the philosopher's stone, however - and no wonder. The 
act of turning lead into gold requires nothing less than the 
conversion of one chemical element into another. As any modern 
chemist will tell you, that cannot be done by anything in the 
alchemist's box of tricks. 

It can, however, be done by something out of the box of tricks 
possessed by physicists. In 1919, Ernest Rutherford, the Cambridge 
physicist, turned nitrogen into oxygen by exposing it to radiation. 
Fast-moving particles penetrated the nitrogen atom and left an extra 
proton in the nucleus, thus transforming it into an oxygen atom. By 
using similar tricks, it is possible to turn lead into gold. All that 
is required is to knock three protons out of each lead atom, which 
would then magically turn into gold. It sounds simple, and modern 
textbooks tend to wheel it out as proof-positive of just how much 
cleverer we are than the dolts of yesteryear.

It might not be quite as straightforward as it sounds, however, 
adding that there is no hope of using it to wreck the gold market: it 
is far cheaper to buy gold than to make it from lead. 

Even so, determining who first performed the philosopher's stone 
experiment is surprisingly difficult. As far as I can tell, it wasn't 
achieved until 1980 - and it took the skill of the doyen of nuclear 
chemists, Glenn Seaborg, the Nobel Prize-winning American, to achieve 
the long-sought transformation. Perhaps readers can supply further 
details of this mysterious experiment? Seaborg may not have been the 
first to witness the alchemical transformation, however. It is said 
that, in 1972, Soviet physicists at a nuclear research facility in 
Siberia opened up the lead shielding of their experimental reactor - 
and were stunned to discover that its inner surface had turned into 
gold.




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Fri Dec  7 17:20:36 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 04:20:36 +1100
Subject: Training workshops, theatrical thoughts, snobbery
Message-ID: <008801c17f43$95243900$7d2adccb@price>

Unite.com.au has my tabouli account functioning again at last!

joanne:
>Also, I really like his south-end-up map.

Ah yes, the ol' "Up Over" map.  Used to use it in my workshops about Australian culture for new international students, together with a series of postcards which superimposes the countries which supply most tourists to Australia over a map of Australia drawn to the same scale.  Showing, of course, how very big Australia actually is (slightly bigger than the US-minus-Alaska, I believe), and also a lovely way to lead into the National Inferiority Complex...

Neil:
> I've just spent three days on a management course at The Industrial Society, which culminated in a final task in
>  which each group had to make up a performance piece to motivate an imaginary staff.

(Tabouli is still sniggering to herself... "I cain't get no Motivation"!!).  Who develops these ridiculous courses?  One of the main obstacles I have in promoting my cross-cultural workshops is the fact that a lot of staff refuse on principle to attend training because everything they've ever been to has been pointless and stupid.  I flatter myself that *my* training sessions are genuinely useful and interesting, but if you can't get the cynics to turn up in the first place...

Gwen (on my preferred stage direction for Snape's wand waving speech in the Movie list, i.e. pause silkily in the doorway, students fall silent, he walks slowly, deliberately to the front of the room, watches them coolly, *then* starts the speech):
> Oh, and Tabouli, yes. I agree that the ideal staging would have been a
little slower for his speech, a little less Boom!

Glad you agree - my taste for what he called "melodrama" was roundly scorned as unsubtle and lowbrow by my co-director (who was in fact Simon, of aforementioned Jimmy fame: I told you he got a bit much) when I co-directed an amateur college production of Durrenmatt's "The Visit" in 1995.  Simon thought it beneath him to beg the *27* halfhearted undergraduate cast members (wince) to turn up to rehearsals... in his view, they had made a commitment, and if they wouldn't honour it, it wasn't for him to chase after them like their mothers, they could just make fools of themselves or cancel the play.  Which of course meant *I* ended up chasing after them instead, because I wasn't having either of these options.  There was this wonderful, tense, dark scene where the mayor gives the troubled anti-hero Ill (that's ill... ach, Arial) a gun to protect himself, and Ill makes a bitter speech and then gives it back.  I instructed the actor to pace the stage grimly, and, at the end of the speech, to place the gun sharply on the desk in front of the mayor.

"... but I cannot spare you the task of the trial."  CLUNK (the audience jump)

Magnificent stuff, I thought.  A cutting theatrical climax after the pacing, brooding, sinister build-up.  Simon, of course, hated it.  "It's the sort of thing you *would* prefer," he told me condescendingly.  "You're a melodramatist."  (making it clear that melodrama was a deeply inferior and plebian artform pursued by those lacking the subtle tastes of the Top Drawer).  However, in characteristic Simon fashion, when I put up a fight for my version, he shrugged and withdrew his objection loftily: "Well if you insist on these heavy-handed Hollywood touches, far be it from me to dissuade you.  I have expressed my opinion."  One can but roll one's eyes.

Simon is the sort of Australian man who has never been to England, but claims to be English, as being English has far more Class and because he wants to distance himself from the unclean and mindless hoi polloi who populate Australia.  When he briefly lived in Brunswick, a traditionally working class suburb, I raised an inquiring eyebrow at his uncharacteristic selection of residence, and he said "Far North Parkville, thank you very much" (Parkville being the classy, distinguished suburb south of Brunswick where Melbourne University is located).

Yerk.  Any thoughts from the genuine Brits out there?

Tabouli.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From frantyck at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  7 18:50:26 2001
From: frantyck at yahoo.com (frantyck)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 18:50:26 -0000
Subject: Hairy Plotter
Message-ID: <9ur31i+8a4h@eGroups.com>

On the main list a little while ago, someone asked what Potter fans 
should call themselves. Various philias and manias came up -- making 
us all potential philiacs and maniacs. Which sounds old-fashioned 
and/or quite mad. We're not eccentrics, are we??

So, how about the Happy Rotters? I'd rather be a rotter than a pince-
nezed philiac.

"Oh Potter, you rotter, oh what have you done?
You're killing off students, you think it's good fun --"

Ayayayay.

J K Rowling certainly qualifies as a Hairy Plotter.




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Fri Dec  7 19:34:39 2001
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catorman)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 19:34:39 -0000
Subject: A shameless marketing ploy...
Message-ID: <9ur5kf+de0o@eGroups.com>

...or is it something fun to brighten up the misery that is King's 
Cross Station?

According to tonight' Evening Standard, Platform 9B of the station 
has been permanently transformed into Platform 9 3/4 - complete with 
signs such as "owls must be caged at all times" and "no spells on 
platform."

Catherine




From mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Dec  7 20:32:04 2001
From: mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk (Martin Hooper)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 20:32:04 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] A shameless marketing ploy...
In-Reply-To: <9ur5kf+de0o@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011207203115.00a28710@pop.freeserve.net>

At 19:34 07/12/01, you wrote:
>According to tonight' Evening Standard, Platform 9B of the station
>has been permanently transformed into Platform 9 3/4 - complete with
>signs such as "owls must be caged at all times" and "no spells on
>platform."

Cool - Pity I live in the middle of the country with no plans to visit 
London anytime soon :(

Catherine are you anywhere near for pic taking purposes...?


Martin Hooper
AIM:martinjh99 ICQ: 43933602




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  7 20:49:07 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 20:49:07 -0000
Subject: The Onion and HP
In-Reply-To: <9up1j3+38e0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ura03+lhob@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "flojocoe2001" <cindysphynx at h...> wrote:
> Barb wrote:
> 
> > If you haven't seen the Onion's latest take on the Harry Potter 
> > craze, here's the url: 
> 
> Uh oh.  Some of that must have from our discussions of HP.  I 
> think there is a spy lurking on the board.

That was my thought as well!  Did you notice the fortyish man 
surrounded by Harry Potter collectibles (wearing a Gryffindor scarf) 
who lives in a basement?  Hmph.  I sleep on the second floor...

--Barb





From bray.262 at osu.edu  Fri Dec  7 16:29:07 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 16:29:07 EST5EDT
Subject: A shameless marketing ploy...
Message-ID: <DC0E4E1A19@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

Oh, I just ADORE that!!!!  PLEASE...if anyone can get 
pictures of this, I would love to see them!!!

How....fun.  Honestly...I think that's just great.  I'll be 
thinking about that on and off all weekend to make me smile 
while looking for a new car (which is just as much fun as a 
root canal, in my opinion).

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

2. His homework ate the dog.
          - Top Ten Signs Your Son's A Wizard
            David Letterman



From editor at texas.net  Fri Dec  7 22:23:05 2001
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 16:23:05 -0600
Subject: Grand Proclamation as Promised
Message-ID: <3C114149.4A835406@texas.net>

I'm not sure where this goes, the main list or the movie list, so I
split the difference and opted for chatter (and mods, too, since I don't
think the subject of this Grand Proclamation is on chatter, now that I
think about it)

*ahem*

I, Amanda Lewanski, co-founder and past president of L.O.O.N., hereby
declare Sheryll Townsend, in any and all manifestations or aliases
including but not limited to s_ings, Rylly Elf, or Evil Canadian Woman
Who Messes With Children's Minds, to be a card-carrying, canon-spouting,
damn-near-infallible member of L.O.O.N., said membership to be
retroactive to whatever the day was when she made the comment in Chat
that Neville, in the trailer, falls backwards, which is an error because
in the book he fell on his face; further, Amanda Lewanski tenders
regrets on behalf of the current administration of L.O.O.N. (who clearly
are slipping, failing to clearly identify themselves in posts and such)
that said nitpick slipped through the cracks due to its having been
observed during Chat instead of on the list, causing me to stir my bulk
out of inactivity to make this pronouncement of retroactive membership.
You now have the right, nay, obligation and responsibility to join your
fellow L.O.O.N.s in driving the rest of the unobsessed-with-HP and, dare
I say, unfamiliar-with-HP, to the point of jumping in front of a bus.

--Amanda Lewanski, L.O.O.N. emerita
who hopes that Sheryll's role as an HP proselytute on the bus ride down
didn't *cause* any of those disturbances she regaled us with....




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Sat Dec  8 00:01:13 2001
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catorman)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 00:01:13 -0000
Subject: A shameless marketing ploy...
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011207203115.00a28710@pop.freeserve.net>
Message-ID: <9url89+4d5t@eGroups.com>



--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Martin Hooper <mat at h...> wrote:
> At 19:34 07/12/01, you wrote:
> >According to tonight' Evening Standard, Platform 9B of the station
> >has been permanently transformed into Platform 9 3/4 - complete 
with
> >signs such as "owls must be caged at all times" and "no spells on
> >platform."
> 
> Cool - Pity I live in the middle of the country with no plans to 
visit 
> London anytime soon :(
> 
> Catherine are you anywhere near for pic taking purposes...?


Well, I could quite easily (I live in Blackheath so it's just like a 
regular trip into London for me).  I don't, however, have a scanner.

Catherine




From taradiane at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  8 03:02:46 2001
From: taradiane at yahoo.com (taradiane)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 03:02:46 -0000
Subject: Excellent article about HP magic vs. science (does mention Christianity)
Message-ID: <9urvsm+knnj@eGroups.com>

http://antithesis.com/reviews/potter.html

My dad sent me this article earlier today and I thought it was 
excellent.  It makes some wonderful points regarding science versus 
magic - here's an excerpt:

The place to begin is to invoke one of the great achievements of 
twentieth-century historical scholarship: the eight volumes Lynn 
Thorridike published between 1929 and 1941 under the collective title 
'A History of Magic and Experimental Science', and it is primarily 
the 
title that I wish to reflect upon here. In the thinking of most 
modern people there should be two histories here. After all, are not 
magic and experimental science opposites? Is not magic governed by 
superstition, ignorance, and wishful thinking, while experimental 
science is rigorous, self-critical, and methodological? While the two 
paths have indeed diverged to the point that they no longer have any 
point of contact, for much of their existence ? and this is 
Thorridike's chief point ? they constituted a single path with a 
single history, for both magic and experimental science are means of 
controlling and directing our natural environment (and people, 
insofar as they are part of that environment). Lewis has made the 
same assertion:

[Francis Bacon's] endeavour is no doubt contrasted in our minds with 
that of the magicians: but contrasted only in the light of the event, 
only because we know that science succeeded and magic failed. That 
event was then still uncertain. Stripping off our knowledge of it, we 
see at once that Bacon and the magicians have the closest possible 
affinity.... Nor would Bacon himself deny the affinity: he thought 
the aim of the magicians was "noble."

It was not obvious in advance that science would succeed and magic 
fail. In fact, several centuries of dedicated scientific experiment 
would have to pass before it was clear to anyone that 
the "scientific" physician could do more to cure illness than the old 
woman of the village with her herbs and potions and muttered charms. 
Similarly, in the Renaissance alchemists were divided between those 
who sought to solve problems ? the achievement of the
philosopher's 
stone, for example (or should I say the sorcerer's stone?) ? 
primarily through the use of what we would call mixtures of chemicals 
and those who relied more heavily on incantations, the drawing of 
mystical patterns, and the invocation of spirits. At least it seems 
to us that the alchemists can be so divided, but that's because we 
know that one approach developed into chemistry while the other 
became pure magic. The division may not have been nearly so evident 
at the time, when (to adapt Weber's famous phrase) the world had not 
yet become disenchanted. As Keith Thomas has shown, it was "the 
triumph of the mechanical philosophy" of nature that "meant the end 
of the animistic conception of the universe which had constituted the 
basic rationale for magical thinking. " Even after the powerful work 
of mechanistic scientists like Gassendi the change was not easily 
completed. Isaac Newton, whose name is associated more than any other 
with physical mechanics, was continually absorbed by alchemical 
research, as John Maynard Keynes, the famous economist, learned when, 
in 1936, he bought Newton's alchemical manuscripts at auction. A 
stunned Keynes wrote a paper in which he revealed that Newton, far 
from being "the first and greatest ... rationalist," was instead "the 
last of the magicians."

This history provides a key to understanding the role of magic in 
Joanne Rowling's books, for she begins by positing a counterfactual 
history, a history in which magic was not a false and incompetent 
discipline but rather a means of controlling the physical world at 
least as potent as experimental science. In Harry Potter's world, 
scientists think of magic in precisely the same way they do in our 
world, but they are wrong. The counterfactual "secondary world" that 
Rowling creates is one in which magic simply works, and works as 
reliably, in the hands of a trained wizard, as the technology that 
makes airplanes fly and refrigerators chill the air-those products of 
applied science being, by the way, sufficiently inscrutable to the 
people who use them that they might as well be the products of 
wizardry. As Arthur C. Clarke once wrote, "Any smoothly functioning 
technology gives the appearance of magic. "

Okay, so that was a rather long excerpt, but you get the point.  

Tara, who didn't feel safe putting this on the main list, but felt 
okay about posting it here...
taradiane at yahoo.com






From golden_faile at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  8 04:10:37 2001
From: golden_faile at yahoo.com (golden faile)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 20:10:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Bertie Bott's every flavor beans
In-Reply-To: <004401c17de0$481a1620$b17ba8c0@amy>
Message-ID: <20011208041037.17329.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Amy Gourley <amy at pressroom.com> wrote:
> Where can I buy Bertie Bott's every flavor beans? I
> used to see them at stores but don't remember which
> ones. Now that I want to buy them, I can't seem to
> find them!
> 
> Amy


I recently saw them at target. I'm sorry if this is
the millionth post telling you this, I haven't had a
chance to go through all of my e-mail yet!

Laila
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From alyeskakc at netzero.net  Sat Dec  8 04:21:00 2001
From: alyeskakc at netzero.net (alyeskakc)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 04:21:00 -0000
Subject: Guess what I bought on ebay? 
Message-ID: <9us4fc+a6h9@eGroups.com>

Hi all,

I'm so excited I won this auction, Death by Harry Potter as it was 
called, I just had to share. This is all UK stuff and the preview 
poster is worth it, besides all the extras. I'm surprised hardly 
anyone bid on this and I got all this stuff for $33, must have been 
my lucky day  :)  If anyone collects movie one sheets, there are a 
lot of them on ebay at fairly reasonable prices so far, unlike SW one 
sheets. I'm still looking for the elusive orignal Style 'A' from 
Empire Strikes Back, also know as GWTW poster. I almost had it once 
but was out bid in the final seconds. Oh well someday. 

Anyway now I have Harry to add to my growing one sheet collection. I 
think I'm going to need a bigger house.


1 Original Style (Owl and Letter Poster) 30cm x 40 cm approx 
1 New Style Harry Potter Poster(Given out only to those who attended  
the preview) 30 cm x 40 cm   
3 Harry Potter Holographic, complete with original frog wrapping and 
foil
1 Advance ticket reminder booklet with synopsis of film and mini pic
1 "Whats On" magazine featuring Harry Potter cover and review of film 
inside
1 Highly collectible "Unreel" magazine featuring Alan Rickman 
interview and pull out centere poster  


Cheers,
Kristin

::wishing this would come owl post instead of snail mail::





From nlpnt at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  8 04:31:51 2001
From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 04:31:51 -0000
Subject: Car shopping, was Re: A shameless marketing ploy...
In-Reply-To: <DC0E4E1A19@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9us53n+rmjo@eGroups.com>

Okay, I deliberately avoided the seatbelt thread, since I could bore 
for the US Olympic team on any automotive subject but this.....
 Looking for cars is FUN! How often do you get to stick your finger 
up someone's exhaust! (A real check, btw. You're looking for pale 
gray, dry ash on your finger. Black, damp soot means it's burning oil)
It's the bargaining part that resembles dental surgery!

  (That having been said, I find nothing worse than spotting One With 
Potential from the road, only to find out it's a)overpriced beyond 
reasonable bargaining, b)automatic, or c) a rustbucket (the worst 
sinca a and b can be determined by a quick peek at the window 
followed by a quick peek inside it.)



--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> Oh, I just ADORE that!!!!  PLEASE...if anyone can get 
> pictures of this, I would love to see them!!!
> 
> How....fun.  Honestly...I think that's just great.  I'll be 
> thinking about that on and off all weekend to make me smile 
> while looking for a new car (which is just as much fun as a 
> root canal, in my opinion).
> 
> Rachel Bray
> The Ohio State University
> Fees, Deposits and Disbursements
> 
> 2. His homework ate the dog.
>           - Top Ten Signs Your Son's A Wizard
>             David Letterman




From alyeskakc at netzero.net  Sat Dec  8 04:38:24 2001
From: alyeskakc at netzero.net (alyeskakc)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 04:38:24 -0000
Subject: Another Mirror of Erised question
Message-ID: <9us5g0+dcpq@eGroups.com>

Hi it's me again. I wasn't sure whether or not to post this on the 
main list so I thought, better safe than get a howler from Moderator 
with Rock #47. (Hi John :D )  

I was reading PS/SS again and I remember someone saying Erised was 
desire backwards. So I got to looking at the rest of the saying 
that's on the mirror. I don't think I've seen this come up on either 
list so, I was wondering if anyone has figured it out or bothered to 
for that matter. So here's the saying just in case you don't have a 
book handy. 

      Erised stra ehru oyt ube cafru oyt on wohsi


So who's the cleverest witch, wizard, or magical creature out there? 
I just thought this might be something fun to do.  


Cheers,
Kristin
::who wants Quidditch declared an offical Olympic sport::




From puddlemereunited at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Dec  8 04:45:03 2001
From: puddlemereunited at yahoo.co.uk (puddlemereunited)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 04:45:03 -0000
Subject: Another Mirror of Erised question
In-Reply-To: <9us5g0+dcpq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9us5sf+maak@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "alyeskakc" <alyeskakc at n...> wrote:


> I was reading PS/SS again and I remember someone saying Erised was 
> desire backwards. So I got to looking at the rest of the saying 
> that's on the mirror. I don't think I've seen this come up on either 
> list so, I was wondering if anyone has figured it out or bothered to 
> for that matter. So here's the saying just in case you don't have a 
> book handy. 

>       Erised stra ehru oyt ube cafru oyt on wohsi

It reads: "I show not your face but your hearts desire" backwards.




From sinead at bu.edu  Sat Dec  8 05:00:50 2001
From: sinead at bu.edu (sineadsiobhan)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 05:00:50 -0000
Subject: Very OT: Lord of the Rings
Message-ID: <9us6q2+10t2f@eGroups.com>

I remember in the chat we were talking about how Tolkien would have not 
liked the movie made. I know dead people don't have rights but do their 
relatives have rights as well? 

Does this affect the movie since the author had hated the idea of his 
movie being made? Do you think the sales would ever pass Harry Potter, 
if so why? If not, why? 

I have a few ideas for the "if not" statement: Age gaps

Here's the article I just read a minute ago and thought you might like 
to read. 

I still need to read the book! Grrrr

Sinead


Movies and Film 

Film won't do justice to "Rings" - Tolkien's son
Reuters
Dec 7 2001 9:28PM

LONDON (Reuters) - The son of J.R.R. Tolkien says the forthcoming 
Hollywood adaptation of his father's classic "The Lord of the Rings" 
will not do justice to the magical Middle Earth tale. 

In a statement to newspapers published Saturday, Christopher Tolkien,  
who is literary protector of his father's works, said he did not 
disapprove of the film but was dubious about the adaptation. 

"My own position is that 'The Lord Of The Rings' is peculiarly 
unsuitable to transformation into visual dramatic form," he said. 

Michael White, who wrote a biography about the Oxford professor and 
creator of the trilogy, said the author would have hated the film. 

"I think he would have just closed his eyes to it," White said of 
Tolkien, who died in 1973 aged 81. 

"He had a hatred of all things Hollywood and did not believe in the 
idea of imitation being the best form of flattery. As a writer I find 
that staggering." 

"The Fellowship of the Ring," the first in a trilogy of films based on 
Tolkien's best-loved novels, will have its premiere in London on 
December 10 amid intense hype over its box office potential. 

Reuters/Variety 





From john at walton.vu  Sat Dec  8 05:00:59 2001
From: john at walton.vu (John Walton)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 05:00:59 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Bertie Bott's every flavor beans
In-Reply-To: <20011208041037.17329.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8374F0B.6C55%john@walton.vu>

golden faile wrote:

>> Where can I buy Bertie Bott's every flavor beans? I
>> used to see them at stores but don't remember which
>> ones. Now that I want to buy them, I can't seem to
>> find them!
>> 
>> Amy

I have recently been able to find really ghastly ones here in the UK -- very
tame, except for the fact that "Tomato" and "Carrot" taste absolutely
revolting. I would prefer vomit...

IMHO it's much better to actually combine your own Every Flavour Beans by
simply mixing together different flavors of beans you know you like --
"peanut butter" looks particularly like earwax, and "Pear" does a great
impression of "bile". Some of the colors (berry blue, tutti frooti) are wild
too :)

However, the one good thing (and I know Ashley will back me up here) about
the EFBs is the Pepper flavor. It's so spicy and yummy!

--John

____________________________________________

There will be an answer, let it be.
        in Memoriam George Harrison.

John Walton -- john at walton.vu
____________________________________________





From nbr1 at ev1.net  Sat Dec  8 06:58:29 2001
From: nbr1 at ev1.net (njbrobinson)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 06:58:29 -0000
Subject: A good description of Crookshanks?
Message-ID: <9usdml+jghp@eGroups.com>

Hello -- newbie here.  I've been reading (and LOVING) the regular 
list, but decided this question was more safely asked on this list, 
rather than risk a howler.

I am wondering if anyone knows of a good drawing or description of 
Crookshanks.  From PoA, chapter 4, p 60 (US edition), we have "ginger 
fur was thick and fluffy, but it was definitely a bit bowlegged and 
its face looked grumpy and oddly squashed, as though it had run 
headlong into a brick wall."  There are also multiple references in 
PoA to a "bottlebrush" tail. 

I am asking because I would like to find a stuffed animal that 
resembles Crookshanks as much as possible.  My daughter adores all 
things HP, and also adores cats, which we cannot have in the house 
due to allergies (one of our DOGS is allergic to cat dander).  So I 
thought a stuffed version would be an acceptable substitute.  

Any help would be greatly appreciated.






From potterlovingash at hotmail.com  Sat Dec  8 07:46:01 2001
From: potterlovingash at hotmail.com (potterlovingash)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 07:46:01 -0000
Subject: Bertie Bott's every flavor beans
In-Reply-To: <B8374F0B.6C55%john@walton.vu>
Message-ID: <9usgfp+9f7l@eGroups.com>

John wrote:
> However, the one good thing (and I know Ashley will back me up 
here) about
> the EFBs is the Pepper flavor. It's so spicy and yummy!

  *Ah, I am so touched that you remember that. I have not seen EFB in 
a long while. I am also quite disappointed that I have never seen 
chocolate frogs. Do we not have them at all here in the States? Or am 
I oblivious? 

Cheers, 
~Ashley~




From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Sat Dec  8 08:38:53 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 08:38:53 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: The Onion and HP
References: <9ura03+lhob@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <017801c17fc3$dab30480$153370c2@c5s910j>

Cindy and Barb commented on the The Onion's latest HP article:


Barb wrote:
> > > If you haven't seen the Onion's latest take on the Harry Potter
> > > craze, here's the url:

Cindy
> > Uh oh.  Some of that must have from our discussions of HP.  I
> > think there is a spy lurking on the board.

Barb:
> That was my thought as well!  Did you notice the fortyish man
> surrounded by Harry Potter collectibles (wearing a Gryffindor scarf)
> who lives in a basement?  Hmph.  I sleep on the second floor...

It said he is "40 and unmarried".

Neil, 40 and unmarried, but living on the ground floor and able to walk
right past displays of fluffy Hedwigs without even looking.  Mind you...
that Lego version of Hogwarts Castle looks interesting and it *would* help
me improve my hand-eye coordination and spatial reasoning skills.  89 is a
*bit* expensive, but I can always buy Mum and Dad cheaper Christmas presents
to balance things out.  Yeah...why not?

C'mon, own up, RIGHT NOW!  Who wrote the article?   Joywitch, are you
freelancing for The Onion these days?  John... is this you trying to earn
enough money for the inflatable Oliver Wood bed buddy?






From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Sat Dec  8 09:57:16 2001
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catorman)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 09:57:16 -0000
Subject: Very OT: Lord of the Rings
In-Reply-To: <9us6q2+10t2f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9uso5s+h99q@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "sineadsiobhan" <sinead at b...> wrote:
> I remember in the chat we were talking about how Tolkien would have 
not 
> liked the movie made. I know dead people don't have rights but do 
their 
> relatives have rights as well? 

If I recall correctly from my copyright law studies (dubious), then 
copyright expires 50 years after the writer has died.  I think that 
at some point (probably in the 70s) this number changed to 25 years 
and then shortly after, back again, meaning that for a short period 
of time the market was flooded with books/prints (such as the Arthur 
Rackham Alice prints) which were much cheaper because they were 
outside the scope of copyright.

After a writer's death, and up until the copyright expires, the 
rights can be inherited by whoever the writer nominates, so, unless 
the copyright had been sold, they would have sole control.

Did JRRT's son sell the movie rights?  He could have approved the 
film in theory, but not have negotiated such a good deal as JKR and 
therefore not had as much input into the adaptation itself.

Catherine





From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Sat Dec  8 09:59:00 2001
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catorman)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 09:59:00 -0000
Subject: Bertie Bott's every flavor beans
In-Reply-To: <B8374F0B.6C55%john@walton.vu>
Message-ID: <9uso94+acaq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., John Walton <john at w...> wrote:
> However, the one good thing (and I know Ashley will back me up 
here) about
> the EFBs is the Pepper flavor. It's so spicy and yummy!
> 
> --John

Me too - and I also really like the Horseradish one.  The one which 
made me want to spit it out and vomit was the Sardine one - fishy 
with a horrible sweet aftertaste.  Ugh!

Catherine




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Dec  8 10:10:50 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 10:10:50 -0000
Subject: A good description of Crookshanks?
In-Reply-To: <9usdml+jghp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9usova+ha2t@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "njbrobinson" <nbr1 at e...> wrote:
><I am wondering if anyone knows of a good drawing or description of 
> Crookshanks.  From PoA, chapter 4, p 60 (US edition), we 
have "ginger 
> fur was thick and fluffy, but it was definitely a bit bowlegged and 
> its face looked grumpy and oddly squashed, as though it had run 
> headlong into a brick wall."  There are also multiple references in 
> PoA to a "bottlebrush" tail. 
> 
> I am asking because I would like to find a stuffed animal that 
> resembles Crookshanks as much as possible>

I can't help you with the good drawing bit, but in my mind 
Crookshanks looks like a ginger Persian-type cat.  My friend owns 
such a moggie.  He--that cat that is!--is probably not pedigree but 
definately has some Persian traits as he looks like a walking ginger-
coloured oversized fluffy duster on a stick (minus the stick of 
course).  Did that make sense to you?  I have no idea what that 
sentence meant...anyway this cat's legs are not really bowlegged but 
look short and squat because of all the fur, and of course the face 
looks squashed.  *And* the tail definately looks like a bottlebrush!  
So perhaps a ginger-coloured Persian cat stuffie would do the trick 
if a proper Crookshanks toy can't be found.

Sorry if this post made no sense whatsoever.  I've been up for 
several hours but am only halfway through my first cup of coffee, so 
the little grey cells, which are feeble to begin with, haven't kicked 
in yet.  Rereading this post, I realise that I most likely will spend 
the rest of the day spewing nonsense and confusing even more people.  

Never mind...

Mary Ann
(who has a feeling it's going to be a loooong day)  




From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Sat Dec  8 12:58:33 2001
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 12:58:33 -0000
Subject: Bertie Bott's every flavor beans
In-Reply-To: <B8374F0B.6C55%john@walton.vu>
Message-ID: <9ut2pp+nvop@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., John Walton <john at w...> wrote:
"Pear" does a great
> impression of "bile". 

In the US, the "pear" and "bogie" beans are completely identical -- they even 
used the same photo in the little guidebook --  you can tell becasue the spots 
are the very same.




From frantyck at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  8 15:22:36 2001
From: frantyck at yahoo.com (frantyck)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 15:22:36 -0000
Subject: Very OT: Lord of the Rings
In-Reply-To: <9uso5s+h99q@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9utb7s+phof@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "catorman" <catherine at c...> wrote:
> If I recall correctly from my copyright law studies (dubious), 
then 
> copyright expires 50 years after the writer has died.
[snip details] 
> Catherine


Copyright duration is currently 'life of author plus seventy years,' 
I believe. This seems to have come into effect early in 1978 in the 
US. There's a bunch of different categories, though...

Rrishi




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Sat Dec  8 16:41:54 2001
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catorman)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 16:41:54 -0000
Subject: Very OT: Lord of the Rings
In-Reply-To: <9utb7s+phof@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9utfsi+7rqk@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "frantyck" <frantyck at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "catorman" <catherine at c...> wrote:
> > If I recall correctly from my copyright law studies (dubious), 
> then 
> > copyright expires 50 years after the writer has died.
> [snip details] 
> > Catherine
> 
> 
> Copyright duration is currently 'life of author plus seventy 
years,' 
> I believe. This seems to have come into effect early in 1978 in the 
> US. There's a bunch of different categories, though...
> 
> Rrishi

Ah, but that's in the US - I was talking about UK law (or 
specifically, English law) - which is, I guess, the one which is most 
relevant here.

Catherine




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  8 18:59:50 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (jenP_97)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 18:59:50 -0000
Subject: Jen's update on hurting bellies and a funny Ginger story
Message-ID: <9utnv6+u5dn@eGroups.com>

Hi!

First, I'd like to thank everyone who sent their thoughts and stories 
my way.  Wanda, it was inspiring to hear about what you and your son 
went through when he was born.  It really helped to know that folks 
were thinking about me!

Now... I went to the emergency room last night with some severe pain 
- spent 6 (SIX!) hours there and had some nasty things done to me 
(had a very mean ultrasound tech that I'd dealt with before - the 
first time I met her, she yelled at me and made me feel inadequate 
because I didn't have a full bladder!).  In any case, when the doctor 
finally got a chance to see me, he poked me (gently, thank goodness), 
prodded me, made me do some calisthenics(!), and then proclaimed that 
the baby was doing very well (and was in the right spot!) and that 
I'd just pulled an abdominal muscle somehow.  YAY!  I'm in tons of 
pain, but at least I know what's causing it, and I know that all 
things baby are going well.

Funny Ginger story that transpired as I was writing this:

Chris (husband) just taught Ginger how to do a "wet willy".  If you 
don't know what this is, I'm sure you'll get the idea after I 
describe *her* logic.

- Ginger comes up to me sticking her finger in my face.
- I say, "Don't you poke me!" (in a funny voice, of course)
- "But I want to give you a wet willy!"
- "Yuck.  No way."
- (in a very whiny voice) "But I want to give you one!!!" (we're 
having a problem with whining at the moment)
- "Oh fine."
- So Ginger sticks her finger in *my* mouth, then sticks it in my ear 
(meanwhile, I'm commenting "at least it's my own spit")
- Chris says, "No no no, you stick your finger in your own mouth!"
- Ginger sticks her finger in her mouth, then sticks it in *her* ear.

And this whole time, I'm laughing and crying because it hurts so 
much.


Jen (who is sorry about the length of this post, but you know moms... 
they are physically unable to stop gushing about their kids)





From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  8 19:18:42 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 11:18:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Jen's update on hurting bellies and a funny Ginger story
In-Reply-To: <9utnv6+u5dn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20011208191842.50462.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com>


--- jenP_97 <jenP_97 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> First, I'd like to thank everyone who sent their
> thoughts and stories 
> my way.  Wanda, it was inspiring to hear about what
> you and your son 
> went through when he was born.  It really helped to
> know that folks 
> were thinking about me!
> 
> Jen (who is sorry about the length of this post, but
> you know moms... 
> they are physically unable to stop gushing about
> their kids)
> 
Hi, Jen, happy to hear about Ginger and her WET
WILLIE!
Sorry to hear about your new ache! William is doing
great and glad to have helped you with positive
thoughts! Some of those Techs should be on the
receiving end of their own treatment! Send all those
happy funny kids stories! Reminds me of when my
husband shaved off all his hair and mustache! William
was 3 and James was 2. They saw Dad go into the
bathroom and heard noises, the hair clippers. Dad
comes out no facial hair or hair on his head! Both
kids ran screaming! They didn't know it was their Dad!
Then to make it worse, he tells them his mustache
turned into a full butterfly and flew away! William
tells his Early Childhood Teacher in School next day
where butterflies come from. Well, I got a phone call
from Mrs. Kaplans, and she tells me that Roy is going
into the doghouse and never coming out! That was the
polite way of putting it! Donna is a very close friend
and I really can't put what she said! But we laugh
about it!
Hope this makes your OT Day today!

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Very
Merry Band of Muggles 100%


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Dec  8 20:17:17 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 20:17:17 -0000
Subject: Jen's update on hurting bellies
In-Reply-To: <9utnv6+u5dn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9utsgd+lguv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "jenP_97" <jenP_97 at y...> wrote:

> Now... I went to the emergency room last night with some severe 
pain 
> - spent 6 (SIX!) hours there and had some nasty things done to me 
> (had a very mean ultrasound tech that I'd dealt with before - the 
> first time I met her, she yelled at me and made me feel inadequate 
> because I didn't have a full bladder!).

I tell you, Jen, *every* hospital in the universe must have one of 
these permanently premenstrual ultrasound techs.  I encountered one 
here as well, and seeing as this was when I'd miscarried, she was 
lucky she didn't spend the rest of the day extracting the monitor 
from her back end.

  In any case, when the doctor 
> finally got a chance to see me, he poked me (gently, thank 
goodness), 
> prodded me, made me do some calisthenics(!), and then proclaimed 
that 
> the baby was doing very well (and was in the right spot!) and that 
> I'd just pulled an abdominal muscle somehow.  YAY!  I'm in tons of 
> pain, but at least I know what's causing it, and I know that all 
> things baby are going well.

Glad to hear it!  Now you *really* have an excuse to sit down and 
relax, though I know that's not easy with Ginger...wet willy 
indeed :)  So be sure to take it easy, and keep us up to date on the 
progress of our cyberniece/nephew!

Cheers!

Mary Ann :)




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Sat Dec  8 21:10:22 2001
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 21:10:22 -0000
Subject: Very OT: Lord of the Rings
In-Reply-To: <9uso5s+h99q@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9utvju+g41v@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "catorman" <catherine at c...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "sineadsiobhan" <sinead at b...> 
wrote:
> > I remember in the chat we were talking about how Tolkien 
would have 
> not 
> > liked the movie made. I know dead people don't have rights 
but do 
> their 
> > relatives have rights as well? 
> 
>snip summary of copyright law 
> 
> Did JRRT's son sell the movie rights?  He could have 
approved the 
> film in theory, but not have negotiated such a good deal as JKR 
and 
> therefore not had as much input into the adaptation itself.
> 

I'm sure we'll hear from intellectual property lawyer Heidi on this. 
But Tolkien himself sold the movie rights back in 1969, when he 
was still alive (naturally). AFAIK he did not retain any residual 
rights or rights of approval over the finished product. He did not 
think any film maker could do justice to the story, or convey  his 
artistry, and so did not wish to be associated with the project. 

Pippin





From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sun Dec  9 00:21:58 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 00:21:58 -0000
Subject: Jen's update on hurting bellies
In-Reply-To: <9utnv6+u5dn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9uuar6+rh9r@eGroups.com>

Jen P wrote:

> Now... I went to the emergency room last night with some severe pain 
> - spent 6 (SIX!) hours there and had some nasty things done to me 
> (had a very mean ultrasound tech that I'd dealt with before - the 
> first time I met her, she yelled at me and made me feel inadequate 
> because I didn't have a full bladder!). 

Oh lord, I sympathize.  I am physically incapable of holding as much 
liquid as they want you to drink.  I can't imagine trying to do so 
when you're pregnant.

Wonderful news, and I hope the pain subsides very soon.

Amy




From john at walton.vu  Sun Dec  9 01:48:21 2001
From: john at walton.vu (John Walton)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 01:48:21 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Jen's update on hurting bellies and a funny
	Ginger story
In-Reply-To: <20011208191842.50462.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8387365.6D12%john@walton.vu>

Wanda Mallett wrote:

> Reminds me of when my
> husband shaved off all his hair and mustache! William
> was 3 and James was 2. They saw Dad go into the
> bathroom and heard noises, the hair clippers. Dad
> comes out no facial hair or hair on his head! Both
> kids ran screaming! They didn't know it was their Dad!

I had the SAME experience with my dad! I must have been around four and my
mum says that, as my Dad was shaving off his beard, a friend yelled that she
should take me into the bathroom so I could watch the beard shaved off so
that I would know it was still the same Daddy. That story always cracks me
up...

--John

____________________________________________

There will be an answer, let it be.
        in Memoriam George Harrison.

John Walton -- john at walton.vu
____________________________________________





From pindsvinen at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  9 03:22:20 2001
From: pindsvinen at yahoo.com (pindsvinen)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 03:22:20 -0000
Subject: Long-Distance Wizard Transportation
Message-ID: <9uuldc+evjp@eGroups.com>


 Okay... I'm new to the group in the active-posting sense, though 
I've lurked a bit. I have one question that has been nagging at me, 
for the purposes of a fanfic which walked into my brain. No, 
rather... stampeded, actually. 

My question is this: What would the best method of quick long-
distance transportation, capable of bringing yourself (a Witch/Wizard 
type individual) and perhaps another individual, be? 
 *If this has been discussed here, and i've managed to miss it, I 
apologise.. Or if it's been discussed somewhere else, please direct 
me there!*

 The premise involves a Hogwarts professor going to Heathrow or some 
other British airport to pick up/greet Muggle family members, 
imported from somewhere-else. I'm not entirely sure where. It will 
end up with said professor bringing one of the family members back to 
Hogwarts.

 Assuming Hogwarts is in Scotland and Heathrow is (obviously) quite a 
distance away, there are a few options I have gleaned from reading 
around, both on Yahoo! groups and in things such as the Lexicon, and 
multiple other sites. It seems that the long-distance travel options 
appear to be broomsticks, Apparition, PortKeys, or the Hogwarts 
Express (or perhaps any other enchanted train lines). 

 I am hesitant about using broomsticks for said fan-fic, and 
generally apprehensive about them for long-distance travel anyway. 
Unless they can be urged to high speeds, I believe they would be 
rather impractical. Unless one is willing to cast umbrella-spells and 
things of that nature to keep off weather, and everyone in the family 
has one... They would also be rather impractical for long-distance 
trips.

 Apparition... Well, you can't Apparate and Disapparate off Hogwart's 
grounds. This would, otherwise, be a good long-distance travel 
mechanism. 

 PortKeys... I don't recall any mention of them being used on 
Hogwarts grounds. Would they be possible, you think? I believe it was 
GoF which discussed using series of Portkeys to get from point A to 
point B. However, my problem would be getting said Professor from 
Hogwarts to Heathrow, and then back again. PortKeys work only in one 
direction, or do they work both ways? (I'm up at college, and I 
haven't GoF on hand. I feel like an idjit. Please no yelling at me. 
Please?) 

 The Hogwarts Express, while properly Wizard-Like and certainly 
covers long distances, seems as if it takes quite awhile. More like 
the... well, "leisurely" trip. Like taking a train from Point A to 
Point B. I don't think it would work well. 

 Can anyone give me any input on which of the above might be the most 
plausible, or any new ideas? This is the first scene,a nd would be 
rather difficult to erase for the rest of the story. :wry grin: 
 
 Thank you!
--Darcey--




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Dec  9 04:39:31 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 04:39:31 -0000
Subject: Long-Distance Wizard Transportation
In-Reply-To: <9uuldc+evjp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9uupu3+l0tm@eGroups.com>

By the way, JEN, I'm glad to hear that the future baby is okay, 
and concerned about your strained muscle. I know that pregnant 
people aren't allowed to use any pain medicine, but are you allowed 
to put a hot compress on it?

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "pindsvinen" <pindsvinen at y...> wrote:

> My question is this: What would the best method of quick long-
> distance transportation, capable of bringing yourself (a 
> Witch/Wizard type individual) and perhaps another individual, be? 

> The premise involves a Hogwarts professor going to Heathrow or some 
> other British airport to pick up/greet Muggle family members, 
> imported from somewhere-else. I'm not entirely sure where. It will 
> end up with said professor bringing one of the family members back
> to Hogwarts.

QUIDDITCH THROUGH THE AGES, Chapter Nine, Development of the Racing 
Broomstick: "... Oakshaft 79 (so named because the first example was 
created in 1879) ... will always be remembered as the broom used in 
the first ever Atlantic broom crossing,  by Jocunda Sykes in 1935. 
(Before that time, wizards preferred to take ships rather than trust 
broomsticks over such distances. Apparation becomes increasingly 
unreliable over very long distances, and only highly skilled wizards 
are wise to attempt it across continents.)"

Comparing the distance of a London to New York or New York to Los 
Angeles trip with that of a London to Hogsmeade trip, I suppose that 
the most usual way that a wizard/witch would travel to Heathrow from 
Hogwarts is to walk to Hogsmeade and Apparate from there. (Walk or 
take one of the little boats or the carriages used to transport 
students.) 

The Muggle relatives can't Apparate, it appears that one human cannot 
carry another human while Apparating, and I don't know if a person 
*can* Apparate to a place heesh has never been before: I fantasize a 
guidebook giving detailed map co-ordinates and several photographs of 
what the destination looks like; I even named it the Apparatlas... 
(and a local-to-me joke would be if it were published by Tom Brothers 
and his daughter Joyce).

I think they would probably use the Floo network. (If Muggles can use 
Floo -- Muggles, such as the Dursleys, can SEE Floo, so I suppose 
they can use it.) It seems to be as fast as Portkeying, almost as 
fast as Apparating.

Wizard folk  probably ride passenger aeroplanes much oftener than 
Muggles would suspect (much faster than ships), so there would 
probably be some little cafe or bookstore at each major airport that 
was invisible to Muggles and had a fireplace connected to the Floo 
Network, so they could Floo to Hogsmeade. From Hogsmeade to Hogwarts 
as above. 

Or possibly there is a wizarding air taxi service, consisting of a 
couple of crazy young men who rebuilt antique biplanes, put 
invisibility spells on them, and fly from a grassy strip on the 
outskirts of Hogsmeade. 

Wizarding Air Taxi does sound like something that would use 
broomsticks... fly low, under the radar, at airports, and high, over 
eyesight range, elsewhere, and try to look like birds... There may be 
broomsticks that are big and strong enough to carry passengers and 
luggage (with a luggage rack sitting behind the passengers? With 
the luggage hangingn down like a hobo's bindle?) 

All Harry cares about so far is racing broomsticks, but we saw an 
advertisement at the Quidditch World Cup for the Bluebottle, 'a broom 
for the whole family'. Does that mean safe enough for children to 
fly, or big enough for the whole family on one broom? 

You expressed concern about the weather and 'umbrella spells'. I'm 
sure that, with what I have heard of the British climate, UK wizards 
are all good at anti-rain Charms like the Impurvius! that Hermione 
put on Harry's eyeglasses, and anti-cold charms as well. However, I 
don't know how long a big, slow broomstick would take for the trip, 
and there has been debate about whether a Muggle could fly a 
broomstick: is the entire spell already on the broom, or does the 
rider have to add some magic of hiser own? 

I wonder what means they have to make commercial air travel less 
unpleasant: to shrink their legs or expand their legroom without the 
Muggles noticing? Can they Accio! their luggage without waiting for 
it to fall down the carousel, or would that be too hard to conceal 
from Muggles? Can they at least put some kind of "homing" spell on it 
so that it always gets put on the right cart, plane, etc?

Hagrid used the Knight Bus to take Buckbeak to London and back for 
his trial. The Knight Bus has the advantage of being able to book a 
trip from anywhere to anywhere (within the island of Britain, I 
believe) rather than being limited to railway station to railway 
station. It has the disadvantage of the amusement-park type ride and 
is not instantaneous.

I suspect that Portkeys cannot be used on Hogwarts grounds, with a 
special exception for the Portkey (Triwizard Cup) that was supposed 
to dramatically carry the Winner to the Winner's Circle, and that is 
why evil Barty had to hack the Triwizard Cup Portkey, to insert a 
middle stop, instead of simply turning Harry's toothbrush into a 
Portkey, and that is why he spent a year messing around to make Harry 
win the Tournament.




From rosewoof at earthlink.net  Sun Dec  9 06:00:41 2001
From: rosewoof at earthlink.net (Rose Woofenden)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 22:00:41 -0800
Subject: Removal of hair scaring kids
In-Reply-To: <B8387365.6D12%john@walton.vu>
References: <20011208191842.50462.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011208215832.00a04d40@earthlink.net>


>Wanda Mallett wrote:
>
> > Reminds me of when my
> > husband shaved off all his hair and mustache! William
> > was 3 and James was 2. They saw Dad go into the
> > bathroom and heard noises, the hair clippers. Dad
> > comes out no facial hair or hair on his head! Both
> > kids ran screaming! They didn't know it was their Dad!


I was baby sitting a little 1 or 2 year-old, and his mom got her hair cut 
while she was gone... He had a hard time recognizing his mommy, and wasn't 
exactly sure if he wanted me to leave him with her. :-)



-Rose


Current book:  Misse Lee- by Arthur Ransome
Current Song playing: The Coats- Keep it Simple
Last Words Spoken by me: Nothing worth mentioning








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sun Dec  9 09:24:26 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 04:24:26 -0500
Subject: evil/good inborn (was humanism on main list)
Message-ID: <F159MhJLUNaQg3Qv4Uf00008ac8@hotmail.com>

jenny from ravenclaw wrote, on the main list:

>I feel guilty disagreeing with anything Amy Z says,

Excellent!  ::rubs hands together::  My training is taking effect!

>but here I think differently - at least partly, anyway.  I agree that evil 
>can be
inborn, because, IMO, we cannot have any good if there is no evil to
go with it (you know, how we can't understand one without having the
other).  We are all capable of doing evil things, and certainly of
thinking evil thoughts - I know I do - bwahahahaha!  I digress.
However, I think much evil behavior is related to how one was raised.
I couldn't agree more.  I was just delineating between some of my 
coreligionists' POV, which is that human beings are essentially good, and my 
own, which is that human beings are born with selfish and cruel desires as 
well as impulses towards altruism, justice, compassion, and love.

I actually don't spend much effort breaking my head against the problem of 
what is "inborn" or "essential"--it doesn't interest me all that much as a 
philosophical problem.  When I say that one's deepest self is good, I mean 
that I believe one cannot be cruel, unkind, unjust, etc. without being 
fundamentally out of harmony with an important part of oneself (let the 
professional ontologists worry about whether it's "the core" of oneself or 
not), and also out of harmony with the rest of the world, not to mention the 
divine.

>I'm also a bit confused about what Amy said about Tom Riddle's "deepest 
>self".  Does that mean that maybe Riddle is ignoring the warm and fuzzy 
>feelings he is capable of getting?  Or does it mean > > that he has worked 
>extremely hard to squash the empathy out of > himself?

Both, I suppose, though I don't know how hard he had to work at it.  When 
one is abused from infancy, one may well find empathy hard to sustain.  I do 
believe that everyone has the capacity for empathy and that Riddle has 
suppressed his, glorying in power over others and the ability to cause pain 
instead.

>Perhaps that's what true evil is - the way Riddle devoted his entire life 
>to death and destruction, and has trained himself to delight in it.

Sounds like a good start at a definition to me!

Amy

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Sun Dec  9 10:25:51 2001
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catorman)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 10:25:51 -0000
Subject: Very OT: Lord of the Rings (correction)
In-Reply-To: <9utfsi+7rqk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9uve7f+qdr3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "catorman" <catherine at c...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "frantyck" <frantyck at y...> wrote:
> > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "catorman" <catherine at c...> wrote:
> > > If I recall correctly from my copyright law studies (dubious), 
> > then 
> > > copyright expires 50 years after the writer has died.
> > [snip details] 
> > > Catherine
> > 
> > 
> > Copyright duration is currently 'life of author plus seventy 
> years,' 
> > I believe. This seems to have come into effect early in 1978 in 
the 
> > US. There's a bunch of different categories, though...
> > 
> > Rrishi
> 
No, you're quite right - I stupidly got this confused with 
Broadcasting rights, which is currently 50 years.  Good job I do tax 
and not IP!

Catherine




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  9 14:15:27 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 06:15:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Removal of hair scaring kids
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011208215832.00a04d40@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20011209141527.38243.qmail@web13705.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Rose Woofenden <rosewoof at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> >Wanda Mallett wrote:
> >
> > > kids ran screaming! They didn't know it was
> their Dad!
> 
> 
> I was baby sitting a little 1 or 2 year-old, and his
> mom got her hair cut 
> while she was gone

Hi, Rose! The kids got over it as soon as Daddy
started to laugh! It must be a guy thing! But we sure
laugh about it! When William was 3 months old, Roy was
playing peek-a-boo, well, it must have been one to
many boos, William started crying! Roy couldn"t go
near him for 2 hours! Understand how you felt!

Memories, aren't they wonderful, they can make a snowy
day like today so much happier! We are getting snow in
Revere, after all our hot weather! WOW!

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Very
Merry Band of Muggles 100%

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From cindysphynx at home.com  Sun Dec  9 16:05:51 2001
From: cindysphynx at home.com (cindysphynx)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 16:05:51 -0000
Subject: Car shopping, was Re: A shameless marketing ploy...
In-Reply-To: <9us53n+rmjo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9v024v+7vun@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "nlpnt" <nlpnt at y...> wrote:
>  Looking for cars is FUN! How often do you get to stick your finger 
> up someone's exhaust! 

LOL!  I'll have to remember the exhaust check.  That's a good one.  I 
am familiar with the brake pedal check (where you examine the wear on 
the brake pedal to guess whether it jives with the odometer).  I 
think I've also heard of the trunk check, where you check to see if 
the inside color matches the outside color, and you look for signs 
the car has been submerged in water.

I find new car buying far more upsetting than used car buying, 
though.  You go in as a reasonably well-educated, mature, and 
thoughtful person, but you are presumed to be a total car-buying 
idiot until you prove otherwise.  On my last such excursion (1992), I 
went by myself to buy the family car.  The salesMAN patiently 
explained that he sold a car to a wife once, and the husband didn't 
like it, and it was a big mess.  

Cindy (driving her car into the ground to avoid a trip to a 
dealership)




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  9 19:23:58 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 19:23:58 -0000
Subject: Fwd: HP Controversy in York, PA
In-Reply-To: <20011209184719.35178.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9v0doe+k3p4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Barbara Purdom <blpurdom at y...> wrote:
> My best friend sent this to me.  It's actually
> possibly on-topic, but I'm putting it here to play it
> safe.
> 
> --Barb
> 

Okay--here's the actual thing she sent me.  (Not available online.) 
 
York Daily Record
December 8, 2001

Reaction grows to anti-Harry Potter sentiment at EasternThe issue 
will be discussed at a Dec. 17 meeting of the Education Committee.
By SCOT D. CELLEY

Reaction was mixed to a parent's move in Eastern York School 
District to ban Harry Potter books from the schools. Deb DiEugenio 
told the board Thursday night that she became upset when her sixth-
grade daughter brought home a permission slip for her to read a 
Harry Potter book as part of the instruction. "It's against my 
daughter's constitution, it's evil, it's witchcraft," DiEugenio 
said. "I'm not paying taxes to teach my child witchcraft." 
 
However, the U.S. publisher for the book, Scholastic Inc., issued a 
statement Friday urging against any such move. "We believe that 
every parent has the right to decide what his or her own child 
should or should not read," according to the statement. 
 
"We do not believe that a parent has the right to tell another 
parent what their child should or should not read. We are absolutely 
opposed to any sort of banning or censorship of a book based on the 
view of some readers that the book is harmful." 
 
Four students did not take part in the middle school reading, 
according to the administration, and were temporarily assigned to a 
different classroom. At DiEugenio's side was Tony Leanza, a pastor 
at New Wine Christian Center. Leanza is also a teacher at Canadochly 
Elementary School in the district. He tried to engage the board in a 
debate about the Harry Potter books, but the board refused. 
 
Instead, it will be the subject of an Education Committee meeting at 
5 p.m. Dec. 17, in the administrative training room at the high 
school. Board member Darvin Shelley echoed the sentiments of several 
other members when he said, "Harry Potter is witchcraft . . . and 
people are being harmed by witchcraft." 
 
The Rev. Christine Aubin, director of communications for the 
Witches' League of Public Awareness, said in a statement Friday that 
the Harry Potter series is fiction, similar to C.S. 
Lewis' "Chronicles of Narnia" or J.R.R. Tolkien's books. 
 
"Witchcraft the religion is far different than Witchcraft taught at 
Hogwort's," Aubin wrote, referring to the fictional witch academy 
that Harry Potter attends. 
 
"In a day and age when people are killing others in the name of 
the `one true religion' and the `one true God'," Aubin 
wrote, "perhaps a less combative path for inter-religious dialogue 
needs to be sought and an open mind to the possibility that there 
maybe more than one true religion ? but realizing that each 
religions is true to its adherents." 

Send comments, questions to web at ydr.com.






From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  9 19:43:29 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (jenP_97)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 19:43:29 -0000
Subject: Car shopping (now very long)
In-Reply-To: <9v024v+7vun@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9v0et1+5i1h@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "cindysphynx" <cindysphynx at h...> wrote:

> I find new car buying far more upsetting than used car buying, 
> though.  You go in as a reasonably well-educated, mature, and 
> thoughtful person, but you are presumed to be a total car-buying 
> idiot until you prove otherwise.  On my last such excursion (1992), 
> I went by myself to buy the family car.  The salesMAN patiently 
> explained that he sold a car to a wife once, and the husband didn't 
> like it, and it was a big mess.  
> 
> Cindy (driving her car into the ground to avoid a trip to a 
> dealership)

Haha... that's pretty similar to what my little sister experienced 
when she bought her first new car.  She'd just graduated college, had 
some extra money in her pocket (don't know HOW she accomplished 
that), had a new job with the county as a social worker, and was 
living with my dad, so no bills.  So she decided to get a Honda 
Accord... 

Went to the first dealership (the largest in the area).  SalesMAN 
came out and asked her what she was looking for.  Now, my sister was 
VERY well-informed about the car.  She knew *exactly* what she 
wanted, exactly what she wanted to pay for it, exactly what the blue 
book value was, etc.  She had a printout of exactly how much all her 
options cost the dealer, and was pretty confident... so she went in 
with the idea that she was going to get exactly what she wanted 
without a lot of bs from the salesman.  Ha!  Salesman asked her what 
she wanted, she said that she was looking for a 4-door Accord.  He 
took her to a "blue" one, and asked her, "Now... isn't this a 
beautiful automobile?"  She said, "Sure, that's why I picked this 
model.  But why do you have a 'dealer markup' listed on the sticker?  
Let's just take *that* right off, okay?" And proceeded to tell him 
that he'd marked such and such too high, because it was only worth 
_this_ much, and so on.  He was pretty patient with her, telling her 
that "Well, we're in business... we have to make enough money to pay 
our rent, don't we?" and "Well, when you have weather where it rains, 
then has a long dry period, then rains, then is dry, you have a real 
rust problem on your hand and the undercoat is a GREAT value!"  
(note: undercoat is useless, and we get under 5 inches of rain per 
YEAR, so you can own a car for 20 years and never see a spot of rust 
ANYWHERE) So anyway, she finally found one w/ options she liked, got 
in, and the first thing the salesman said to her when she turned on 
the engine was, "See?  Very quiet.  You won't spill a drop of your 
coffee while you're driving around in this car.  Now this is special 
- look here - it's a SUNGLASSES holder!  All you have to do is touch 
this, and it conveniently opens at optimum reach distance!"

Sheesh.  My sister had a fun time with him.  When he absolutely 
refused to take up the dealer markup, she said it was time for her to 
leave, and he *actually* told her that "Go ahead and leave - you're 
never going to get a better value than this, and you're going to feel 
very stupid in the morning when you realize what you've given up."  
She said, "Ah.  Well, maybe tomorrow, when I fax you the amount I got 
from another dealer and you know that you lost a sale and financing 
deal, you'll be able to say the same thing about yourself."  And 
walked off.

She got exactly what she wanted the next day at another dealer, and 
she made her salesman call the one she'd seen the previous day and 
rub it in.  Apparently, the rude salesman hung up on the other one, 
but what can you expect.  No manners. ;)

Jen (who apologizes for the length of this, but isn't *really* 
sorry... hehehe)




From pindsvinen at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  9 21:23:26 2001
From: pindsvinen at yahoo.com (pindsvinen)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 21:23:26 -0000
Subject: Long-Distance Wizard Transportation
In-Reply-To: <9uupu3+l0tm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9v0koe+k6pe@eGroups.com>


 <an incredible amount of snipping>

 Thank you. For some reason, despite it's frequent use, I'd forgotten 
about using Floo Powder for this concept. Thank you verrrry much!

--Darcey--




From pindsvinen at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  9 21:23:31 2001
From: pindsvinen at yahoo.com (pindsvinen)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 21:23:31 -0000
Subject: Long-Distance Wizard Transportation
In-Reply-To: <9uupu3+l0tm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9v0koj+k6sh@eGroups.com>


 <an incredible amount of snipping>

 Thank you. For some reason, despite it's frequent use, I'd forgotten 
about using Floo Powder for this concept. Thank you verrrry much!

--Darcey--




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  9 22:24:21 2001
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 14:24:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Grand Proclamation as Promised
In-Reply-To: <3C114149.4A835406@texas.net>
Message-ID: <20011209222421.55075.qmail@web14606.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Amanda Lewanski <editor at texas.net> wrote:
> I'm not sure where this goes, the main list or the
> movie list, so I
> split the difference and opted for chatter (and
> mods, too, since I don't
> think the subject of this Grand Proclamation is on
> chatter, now that I
> think about it)
> 
> *ahem*
> 
> I, Amanda Lewanski, co-founder and past president of
> L.O.O.N., hereby
> declare Sheryll Townsend, in any and all
> manifestations or aliases
> including but not limited to s_ings, Rylly Elf, or
> Evil Canadian Woman
> Who Messes With Children's Minds, to be a
> card-carrying, canon-spouting,
> damn-near-infallible member of L.O.O.N., said
> membership to be
> retroactive to whatever the day was when she made
> the comment in Chat
> that Neville, in the trailer, falls backwards, which
> is an error because
> in the book he fell on his face; further, Amanda
> Lewanski tenders
> regrets on behalf of the current administration of
> L.O.O.N. (who clearly
> are slipping, failing to clearly identify themselves
> in posts and such)
> that said nitpick slipped through the cracks due to
> its having been
> observed during Chat instead of on the list, causing
> me to stir my bulk
> out of inactivity to make this pronouncement of
> retroactive membership.
> You now have the right, nay, obligation and
> responsibility to join your
> fellow L.O.O.N.s in driving the rest of the
> unobsessed-with-HP and, dare
> I say, unfamiliar-with-HP, to the point of jumping
> in front of a bus.
> 
> --Amanda Lewanski, L.O.O.N. emerita
> who hopes that Sheryll's role as an HP proselytute
> on the bus ride down
> didn't *cause* any of those disturbances she regaled
> us with....
> 
I know I should snip some of the above, but heck, I'm
basking in my moment of glory! What can I say?

Insert long drawn out speech of thanks here.

And, no, I did not cause any of the disturbances on
the bus ride, though I did find a large number of
fellow HP fans along the way, some of whom will
eventually find their way to our devoted little group.

Sheryll, who prefers to go by "Evil Canadian Woman Who
Messes With Children's Minds" (but only because she
has such fun doing it!)

=====
"We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times."
 blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  9 22:33:33 2001
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 14:33:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Car shopping, was Re: A shameless marketing ploy...
In-Reply-To: <9v024v+7vun@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20011209223333.68977.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com>


--- cindysphynx <cindysphynx at home.com> wrote:
<snip>
> 
> I find new car buying far more upsetting than used
> car buying, 
> though.  You go in as a reasonably well-educated,
> mature, and 
> thoughtful person, but you are presumed to be a
> total car-buying 
> idiot until you prove otherwise.  On my last such
> excursion (1992), I 
> went by myself to buy the family car.  The salesMAN
> patiently 
> explained that he sold a car to a wife once, and the
> husband didn't 
> like it, and it was a big mess.  

My mother once had a car salesman fired for refusing
to take her seriously. He asked her to bring my dad in
with her before he would sell her a car. She pointed
out that my dad already had a car and wasn't looking
for a new one, but the guy wouldn't take the hint. She
finally got fed up and talked to the dealership owner
and had the guy fired. She's bought her last 5 cars
there and the owner took her seriously.

Sheryll, wondering if she should offer to send her mom
to assist in the car buying process

=====
"We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times."
 blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From nlpnt at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  9 23:54:05 2001
From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 23:54:05 -0000
Subject: Copyright duration, was Re: Very OT: Lord of the Rings
In-Reply-To: <9utb7s+phof@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9v0tit+4tm0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "frantyck" <frantyck at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "catorman" <catherine at c...> wrote:
> > If I recall correctly from my copyright law studies (dubious), 
> then 
> > copyright expires 50 years after the writer has died.
> [snip details] 
> > Catherine
> 
> 
> Copyright duration is currently 'life of author plus seventy 
years,' 
> I believe. This seems to have come into effect early in 1978 in the 
> US. There's a bunch of different categories, though...
> 
> Rrishi

It depends also on when the author died. For the US, a general rule 
is that the work anyone who died at the same time as or after Walt 
Disney, will not be in public domain anytime soon, if ever (the 
Disney corp. having the resources to spend cubic dollars on lawyers, 
lobbyists, etc. to retain copyright over Walt's work)




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Dec 10 10:25:37 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:25:37 -0000
Subject: Car shopping, was Re: A shameless marketing ploy...
In-Reply-To: <20011209223333.68977.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9v22j1+r373@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Sheryll Townsend <s_ings at y...> wrote:
> 
> --- cindysphynx <cindysphynx at h...> wrote:

> <snip>
  You go in as a reasonably well-educated,
> > mature, and 
> > thoughtful person, but you are presumed to be a
> > total car-buying 
> > idiot until you prove otherwise>

*sigh*  My problem is that I *am* a a silly ignorant twit when it 
comes to either bargaining or anything mechanical.  Good thing I've 
only ever bought 2 cars in my life up 'til now. 

> My mother once had a car salesman fired for refusing
> to take her seriously. <snip details>

Well done!  My friend almost had the same done as well.  She went in 
with her brother to buy their mom a new vehicle, and not only did the 
salesman spend all his time talking technical stuff with the brother, 
he treated my friend like a complete idiot and showed her the 
standards that all women seem to be shown:  the coffee mug holder, 
the sunglasses holder, and the pretty paintwork.  I should point out 
that my female friend is an aeronautical engineer and can design and 
build aircraft from scratch.  My friend's brother took great delight 
in watching my friend explain the mechanical details the salesman got 
wrong to this idiot, and telling this idiot exactly what he could do 
with his sales ledger.  I don't think the salesman was fired, but he 
got a good chewing-out from his boss in front of my friends.

Some years ago my Dad went to trade in his old company car, which he 
bought from the company when he retired, against the cost of a new 
car.  Dad asked $6000 for it.  Mr. Salesman gave us the "blah blah 
blah must-speak-to-the-manager" speech, then took the keys so the 
Invisible Manager could take it for a test drive.  I say Invisible 
because he *didn't* drive it; the only way out of the dealership was 
visible to us, and we never saw Dad's car pass us.  Then we were 
told "blah blah blah...we'll give you $5000", and to my surprise Dad 
gave in.  Only when the idiot wandered off somewhere did my Dad 
whisper to me, "Not bad, considering I bought it off the company for 
$3000"!  Way to go, Dad!

Wish I had inherited his bargaining skills, though...

Mary Ann
(who is dreading dealing with her insurance company after she scraped 
her back passenger door against a brick pillar...oops...)




From farris5 at swbell.net  Mon Dec 10 10:54:16 2001
From: farris5 at swbell.net (Russ & Wanda)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 04:54:16 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Ginny Questions
References: <9v22j1+r373@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000801c18169$0355fa40$0cfcbed0@hppav>

Hi, Does anybody know Ginny Weasley's birthday? Also, is she the youngest Weasley and the only daughter? Thanks, Wanda


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Mon Dec 10 12:37:54 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 23:37:54 +1100
Subject: Car salesmen, seatbelts, voiceless wheezing, Wood(y All)en
Message-ID: <003a01c18177$8f4f1320$af0ddccb@price>

Hello all...

Good to hear that car salesmen are getting their come-uppance occasionally.  Unfortunately, I'm not likely to deliver such messages myself, as my knowledge about cars could fit into the average ignition keyhole.  Happily, when I had to buy a car last May (my previous car, a family heirloom, was written off by a taxi last summer solstice (Australian seasons)) the Internet provided me with enough information to buy a second-hand car privately while waving menacing sheafs of paper full of safety stats, price ranges, model numbers and so on.  Very impressive, it was, and I ended up getting a pretty good deal, though I'm slightly embarrassed to confess that I er, brought my brother with me as token male instead of fighting to be taken seriously on my own terms (Tabouli hangs her unsisterly head).

As for seatbelts, to revive an oldish thread, those have been compulsory in Australia in all seats since at least the early 80s, IIRC.  And rightly so.  The vile taxi that wrote my car off last year (I was *stationary* at a *traffic light*, and the idiot hit me from behind doing about 70km/h!) and landed me in hospital with whiplash for two nights (never got any money back despite much effort - don't *ever* have an accident with a taxi) would probably have either embedded me in the steering wheel or thrown me through the windscreen if I hadn't been wearing a seatbelt.

I once had an e-argument with a Canadian guy about seatbelts - his view was that freedom of choice is the highest of virtues, and the State forcing people to wear anything was paternalism and therefore Wrong.  Sigh.

The 'flu I thought I was hatching has turned out to be laryngitis!  A most undignified illness.  I in fact feel reasonably well apart from a cough, to the extent that I almost forget until I try to speak and this strange voiceless wheeze comes out.  Borrowed a couple of videos tonight to entertain me in my convalesence (as my condition rather precludes use of the telephone!), and realised that I had borrowed a Woody Allen film without realised it.  I watched it, but I still just do not understand the attraction.  Is it just me who finds him incredibly boring and self-indulgent?  Have I just drawn the short straws among his work??

Tabouli
(who amused the man in the video shop when he asked for her password by whispering hoarsely: "You'll have to excuse my voice, because at the moment I don't have one...")


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From cindysphynx at home.com  Mon Dec 10 13:47:56 2001
From: cindysphynx at home.com (cindysphynx)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:47:56 -0000
Subject: Car shopping rant
In-Reply-To: <20011209223333.68977.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9v2eec+1q3l@eGroups.com>

Sheryll wrote:


> Sheryll, wondering if she should offer to send her mom
> to assist in the car buying process
> 

Oh, goodness.  I re-read my post, and I think I have given everyone 
the idea that I actually *bought a car* from that idiot car salesman 
who thought the little lady of the house couldn't handle buying a 
car.  No, no, heavens no.  I just left.  No argument, no getting mad, 
but no commission for him; commission for a nice salesman at another 
dealership.

Now that I'm in a full-fledge rant, though, I have thought up my car-
buying pet peeves:

1.  Asking me how much I can afford to pay each month.
2.  Asking how much I'm willing to pay to buy the car *today*.
3.  Trying to talk me into a lease when I clearly state I want to buy.
4.  Trying to charge me for dealer mark-up, pin-striping, 
undercoating, floor mats.
5.  Even suggesting that the sticker price means something.
6.  Being stingy with the brochures.
7.  Bragging about safety features the federal government mandated 
years ago.
8.  Not believing me when I say I am walking out, because I really 
will walk out.

I wish someone would explain why buying a car isn't as 
straightforward as buying any other commodity.  Grrr!

Cindy (who think there oughta be a law)




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Mon Dec 10 09:16:43 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:16:43 EST5EDT
Subject: Share the info, John!!
Message-ID: <11CDB974C62@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

Neil wrote:
>John... is this you trying to earn
>enough money for the inflatable Oliver Wood bed buddy?
All right!  Where can *I* get one, John?!  'Fess up!  Don't 
keep that merchandise secret all to yourself!  Hmmmmmmmm?

:-)





Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

2. His homework ate the dog.
          - Top Ten Signs Your Son's A Wizard
            David Letterman



From bray.262 at osu.edu  Mon Dec 10 11:26:55 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:26:55 EST5EDT
Subject: Car shopping this weekend
Message-ID: <11F073F752B@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

Well.....what strange and wonderful times we live in...

Did you know that even though I have a rather high IQ 
(unless it's changed since taking the test in High School) 
and I have a very good paying job AND I have over $3,000 in 
cash to put down on car, that I'm a total moron who doesn't 
know what she wants or how to go about getting it?  Or so 
said the one car dealer I went to this past weekend.  I 
about popped him in the nose and slapped him silly.  But 
instead I walked back to my car and left without another 
word.

Anyway....I test drove a Jetta (in love with it), a Dodge 
Ram, a PT Cruiser (just for fun), a Saturn thingy-a-bob, 
two different Camrys and a Land Rover.  I went back at the 
end of the day to look at the Jetta again and decided to 
sleep on it.  I get home and there are 8 messages waiting 
for me on my voice mail.  One from a lawyer wanting to 
represent me (which I'm getting REALLY sick of 
getting....I'm not suing anyone!  It's called AN ACCIDENT!) 
and the rest were from my mother (one message saying in 
this Doomsday voice "I hope you didn't buy a car today!") 
and the guy who has my Prizm.

It can be fixed.  No frame damage was done.  YAY!  He has 
to order two new doors, work on the back fender area and 
repaint the whole thing.  I'm SOOOOOOO happy.  I was not 
looking forward to a car payment.  I've been car payment 
free now for almost 4 years and I would like to keep it 
that way for at least another one (or two).  He said that 
after he repairs the doors and such it should still come 
under $1500 total so I'll have an AWESOME Christmas bonus 
with the leftover insurance money.  Yay.

But that Ford dealer mentioned above....I pray some day a 
woman accidentally rolls over him during a test drive.  
What a jerk.

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

2. His homework ate the dog.
          - Top Ten Signs Your Son's A Wizard
            David Letterman



From bray.262 at osu.edu  Mon Dec 10 12:37:44 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:37:44 EST5EDT
Subject: Life and Times of Harry Otter
Message-ID: <12034EA07B9@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

I thought this was really funny!

The Life and Times of Harry Otter


http://www.ifilm.com/ifilm/product/film_info/0,3699,2412323,
00.html?ad_ref=top_twenty_shorts_online&cch=


Warning:  it's a bit long (15 minutes) but I thought is was 
funny.

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

2. His homework ate the dog.
          - Top Ten Signs Your Son's A Wizard
            David Letterman



From alyeskakc at netzero.net  Mon Dec 10 20:02:21 2001
From: alyeskakc at netzero.net (alyeskakc)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:02:21 -0000
Subject: Car shopping this weekend, a sales sleaze story, & a few tips
In-Reply-To: <11F073F752B@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9v34cd+alib@eGroups.com>

Hi Rachel,

First off I'm glad you weren't seriously hurt in your accident. I 
know they can be quite scary, I've had two in the last 18 years. 

Anyway congrats on not having to buy a new car, I definately know 
what a pain that is. It seems that if your a woman the salesmen just 
get really sleazy. They seem to think that we don't know anything 
about cars at all. I know a lot of guys who don't have a clue about 
cars either. 

Anyway when I went to buy my Explorer 4 years ago, said sleaze ball 
took my s-10 blazer to get appraised for a trade and I took the 
Explorer for the night.  Came back the next day to talk a deal. Blue 
book at the time was $2500 to $3000 for trade on my Blazer. The 
sleazeball offered me $500 and went up to $750 for my Blazer(the rear 
end was worth $500 on it's own) and didn't want to negotiate on the 
Explorer. So I took my keys and left. He tried to play on my emotions 
as I left by saying things like look at this vehicle and blah, blah. 
I said yes it's very nice but I'm taking my Blazer and I left.

The next day I went to the Credit Union Auto buying service told them 
what I wanted. They did a regional search and a month later I had my 
nice brand new Explorer, at pretty much the price I wanted, and no 
sleazy salespeople. I highly recommned to anyone buying a new or used 
car, if you belong to a credit union and they offer this service, use 
it. It makes buying a car so much nicer. 

Also use the net as a resource there are several sites that will tell 
the invoice price of the vehicle verses sticker. What types of dealer 
kickback there are. For example if sticker price is $32,000 the 
dealer gets 3% of that from the factory no matter what they sell the 
car for. 

So let's say dealer invoice is $25,000 and sticker is $32,000. You 
offer 3% over invoice. The dealer will make $750 from you plus $960 
from the factory. So in reality the dealer made almost a 7% profit 
over invoice. The salesperson probably got an $86 commission off the 
sale, for maybe a couple hours work.  So when they tell things like 
they're not making any money on that offer they're snowing you.

Okay I'll step off my soap box now, sorry for the long post.

Cheers,

Kristin




From alyeskakc at netzero.net  Mon Dec 10 21:34:30 2001
From: alyeskakc at netzero.net (alyeskakc)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 21:34:30 -0000
Subject: Life and Times of Harry Otter
In-Reply-To: <12034EA07B9@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9v39p6+3vrl@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> I thought this was really funny!
> 
> The Life and Times of Harry Otter
> 
> 
> http://www.ifilm.com/ifilm/product/film_info/0,3699,2412323,
> 00.html?ad_ref=top_twenty_shorts_online&cch=
> 
> 
> Warning:  it's a bit long (15 minutes) but I thought is was 
> funny.
> 


That was hilarious. If you guys like VH-1 Behind The Music this short 
is very much in that style. It even touches on some of the major 
ships. Thanks for the laugh Rachel.

Cheers,

Kristin




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Mon Dec 10 18:39:26 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:39:26 EST5EDT
Subject: Good GRIEF!
Message-ID: <1263CFC0C77@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

I just read that Arnold Schwarzenegger is going to get $30 
million for his role in the next Terminator movie.  

*sigh* 

The thought is astounding.  I guess it's just me 
but.....$30 million dollars for one movie.....

*as I look over my last paycheck and start to cry*

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

2. His homework ate the dog.
          - Top Ten Signs Your Son's A Wizard
            David Letterman



From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 11 01:32:52 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:32:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Good GRIEF!
In-Reply-To: <1263CFC0C77@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <20011211013252.79806.qmail@web13709.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Rachel Bray <bray.262 at osu.edu> wrote:
> 
> The thought is astounding.  I guess it's just me 
> but.....$30 million dollars for one movie.....
> 
> *as I look over my last paycheck and start to cry*

Oh well, I might as well join in the cry fest! My
husband is bawling about his biweekly pay! But with
what we have, we make do! Atleast, we read HP
together, even though Roy is only listening! 

Wanda the Witch of Revere,Massachusetts and Her Very
Mery Band of Muggles 100%

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From crabtree at ktc.com  Tue Dec 11 01:33:40 2001
From: crabtree at ktc.com (professorphlash)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 01:33:40 -0000
Subject: British Literature Characters
Message-ID: <9v3npk+gnb4@eGroups.com>

Hey Guys,

My daughter, a senior in high school, is invited to a party for her AP 
English class at the teacher's home.  The students are supposed to 
dress as a character from British literature.  At once she told her 
teacher that she could go as someone from Harry Potter.  The teacher 
said, "Yes, you coouuld."  Then my daughter decided the teacher was 
thinking of something a little more "classic."  Now she is having a 
hard time selecting the character.  She has a few in mind, but is 
looking for more ideas.  How about it?  Who are your favorite 
characters? Which ones would make interesting costumes?  We would love 
your input.

Professor Phlash




From john at walton.vu  Tue Dec 11 01:41:14 2001
From: john at walton.vu (John Walton)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 01:41:14 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] British Literature Characters
In-Reply-To: <9v3npk+gnb4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B83B14BA.6F21%john@walton.vu>

professorphlash wrote:

> How about it?  Who are your favorite characters? Which ones would make
> interesting costumes?  We would love your input.

I would suggest Bridget Jones...but as it's in a teacher's house, that might
not be a good plan :D

How about Guinevere from Arthurian legend? Fairly easy Queen costume -- gown
with pointy Ladylike Hat Thing...

Or, something period drama -- from Austen.

Alternatively, try for Queen Elizabeth if you happen to have a massive
hoopskirt lying around anywhere...

Or Lady Macbeth -- smear red lipstick on the hands and go with a slightly
mad expression :D

Hmm...Let me think about that some more.

--John

____________________________________________

American Bipartisanship: I'll hug your elephant if you'll kiss my ass.

John Walton -- john at walton.vu
____________________________________________




From crabtree at ktc.com  Tue Dec 11 02:32:45 2001
From: crabtree at ktc.com (professorphlash)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 02:32:45 -0000
Subject: British Literature Characters
In-Reply-To: <B83B14BA.6F21%john@walton.vu>
Message-ID: <9v3r8d+hn5r@eGroups.com>

John Walton <john at w...> wrote:

> I would suggest Bridget Jones...but as it's in a teacher's house, 
that might
> not be a good plan :D

I'm loving it!  A friend has already suggested Bridget Jones, however, 
she is afraid the weather may be too cool for the Playboy Bunny 
costume.  ;-P

She likes your suggestions.  She says the best characters are male. 
When she was in third grade she went as Robin Hood for Halloween.  She 
was frustrated that everyone thought she was Peter Pan.


We were just watching Third Watch. The one of the cops said she should 
just be out looking for Harry Potter Legos. She said that she and her 
husband were just glad to find some books that the kids liked to read, 
and hadn't counted on the movie and merchandising. 

Professor Phlash




From genevieve373 at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 11 03:24:25 2001
From: genevieve373 at yahoo.com (genevieve373)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 03:24:25 -0000
Subject: British Literature Characters
In-Reply-To: <9v3npk+gnb4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9v3u99+b6ib@eGroups.com>

Anything Shakespeare could be fun.  Maybe Titania, queen of the 
Fairies in A Midsummer Night's Dream--just a nice, elegant dress and 
lots of glitter and makeup.  Or Ophelia from Hamlet...just drench 
her clothes in water before putting them on. ;)

If she's brave, she could dress, or not dress, as Eve from Paradise 
Lost.  Or even better, go as God!

Of course, Jane Austen is Classic, too!

Hope these help

Jenny





From catlady at wicca.net  Tue Dec 11 04:22:52 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 04:22:52 -0000
Subject: Car shopping rant
In-Reply-To: <9v2eec+1q3l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9v41ms+2sc5@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "cindysphynx" <cindysphynx at h...> wrote:
> 
> I wish someone would explain why buying a car isn't as 
> straightforward as buying any other commodity.  Grrr!

All that haggling and cheating (by both salesman and customer) and 
trying to out-intimidate each other (I bring my friend Diane to 
intimidate the dealership's closer) is called 'horse-trading'. I 
asked Tim: "Why do we have to go through all this stupid 
horse-trading?!" and he said: "Look at what it's called. Probably the 
people who used to sell horses moved to selling cars when the 
market for horses got real small."




From nlpnt at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 11 06:08:09 2001
From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 06:08:09 -0000
Subject: Car shopping, was Re: A shameless marketing ploy...
In-Reply-To: <9v22j1+r373@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9v47s9+4tsr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "macloudt" <macloudt at y...> wrote:

Mr. Salesman gave us the "blah blah 
> blah must-speak-to-the-manager" speech, then took the keys so the 
> Invisible Manager could take it for a test drive.  I say Invisible 
> because he *didn't* drive it; the only way out of the dealership 
was 
> visible to us, and we never saw Dad's car pass us.  Then we were 
> told "blah blah blah...we'll give you $5000", and to my surprise 
Dad 
> gave in.  Only when the idiot wandered off somewhere did my Dad 
> whisper to me, "Not bad, considering I bought it off the company 
for 
> $3000"!  Way to go, Dad!
> 
> Wish I had inherited his bargaining skills, though...
> 
> Mary Ann
> (who is dreading dealing with her insurance company after she 
scraped 
> her back passenger door against a brick pillar...oops...)


Great! The only car I ever turned a profit on was a non-running VW 
Bug I bought for $1 at age 12, with an eye for restoring by my 16th 
birthday. Never did, but I sold it for $25.

 BTW, one thing that's been drilled into me is , NEVER let a car 
salesman out of sight with your car keys! If they say , "The manager 
needs to drive it", you're next line is, "OK, I'll meet him outside 
with the keys." 
The reason being that some dealers will take your keys and refuse to 
release them in an attempt to force you into signing a sales contract-
 it's called "unhorsing", it's highly illegal (we're talking jail-
time illegal), and I'm given to understand it's quite rare now, but 
any dealership still practicing it is one you DON'T want to deal with.




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Tue Dec 11 09:57:33 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:57:33 -0000
Subject: Hasta la Vista, Winky (was Good Grief)
In-Reply-To: <20011211013252.79806.qmail@web13709.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9v4lad+jn40@eGroups.com>

Wanda Mallett <witchwanda2002 at y...> wrote:
> 
> --- Rachel:
> > 
> > The thought [Schwarzenneger's pay] is astounding.  I guess it's
> > just me but.....$30 million dollars for one movie.....
> > 
> 
> Atleast, we read HP
> together, even though Roy is only listening! 
> 
Does Arnie have children?  Do you suppose he reads HP to them?  And 
does he do all the voices?

David, wondering if Arnie could play the Whomping Willow in COS, as 
it's a non speaking part




From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com  Tue Dec 11 10:06:58 2001
From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:06:58 +0100
Subject: Help!
References: <9v47s9+4tsr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <028e01c1822b$92397c10$e500a8c0@shasta>

Hi guys - I need advice!

About an hour ago, my firewall asked whether I wanted to allow
"sndvol32.exe" to access the internet. Since "Sndvol.32.exe" is supposed to
control Windows' volume settings (I'm on Windows 2000), I can't imagine any
possible reason why it whould be dialing up the internet - and am scared
that I may have a virus.

I ran a complete virus check with an updated McAfee VirusScan file, no bad
news. (That is, I had just received an infected attachement, but I had
already noticed it and was about to delete it, unopened, anyway.) I ran a
few internet searches and discovered that a version of the I-Love-You virus
does fiddle with that file - however, McAfee registered neither the file
itself nor its dll cache buddy as infected. Also, they both seem to work
normally.

I can't find anything else wrong with my system, but I'm still a worried.
Can anyone confirm whether SndVol32.exe is capable of phoning home?

Until I have this cleared up, please regard any mail you receive from me
with a lot of suspicion.

Assuming you don't already ... ;-)

Bleat!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray)
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been
bravery...."




From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com  Tue Dec 11 10:11:25 2001
From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:11:25 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] British Literature Characters
References: <9v3npk+gnb4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <029c01c1822c$31546170$e500a8c0@shasta>

Prof. Phlash said,

> Then my daughter decided the teacher was
> thinking of something a little more "classic."

Let's see ... wasn't Grendel - the monster in Beowulf - a girl monster? (If
I'm imagining things, please assume that this post was written by a virus
... )

Baaaaaa!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray)
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been
bravery...."





From pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it  Tue Dec 11 11:20:59 2001
From: pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it (=?iso-8859-1?q?Susanne=20Schmid?=)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:20:59 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Hasta la Vista, Winky (was Good Grief)
In-Reply-To: <9v4lad+jn40@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20011211112059.34861.qmail@web14706.mail.yahoo.com>


 
  davewitley <dfrankiswork at netscape.net> wrote: 

>David, wondering if Arnie could play the Whomping Willow in COS, as 
>it's a non speaking part


LOL, but the Arnie is the "Styrian Oak"- playing a willow, even if whomping, would make the poor guy schizophrenic!

Susanna/pigwidgeon37


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"And how come those portraits seem to be alive?"

"What'ya mean? All paintings move."

"No, they don't. We have lots of paintings in our villa, among them a real Chagall, and none of them..."

"And d'ya expect that something painted by a jackal will move? Now really..."



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalised at My Yahoo!.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Tue Dec 11 12:21:07 2001
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catorman)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:21:07 -0000
Subject: British Literature Characters
In-Reply-To: <9v3npk+gnb4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9v4tnj+jsap@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "professorphlash" <crabtree at k...> wrote:
> Hey Guys,
> 
> My daughter, a senior in high school, is invited to a party for her 
AP 
> English class at the teacher's home.  The students are supposed to 
> dress as a character from British literature.  At once she told her 
> teacher that she could go as someone from Harry Potter.  The 
teacher 
> said, "Yes, you coouuld."  Then my daughter decided the teacher was 
> thinking of something a little more "classic."  Now she is having a 
> hard time selecting the character.  She has a few in mind, but is 
> looking for more ideas.  How about it?  Who are your favorite 
> characters? Which ones would make interesting costumes?  We would 
love 
> your input.
> 
> Professor Phlash

One character which springs to mind is Miss Havisham - she could 
really go to town on the costume there.  (Fake cobwebs and all).

Otherwise, if she wanted to do something in period - Becky Sharp, 
Shakespeare - Lady Macbeth,, Cleopatra.  How about Virginia Woolf's 
Orlando?  Starts off in the Tudor period as a man, which could be 
interesting.  

Catherine
BTW:  Hope you let us know what she decides on and how it went!






From sofie_elisabeth at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Dec 11 12:24:04 2001
From: sofie_elisabeth at yahoo.co.uk (sofie_elisabeth)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:24:04 -0000
Subject: Good news, bad news...
In-Reply-To: <9um2g5+uj2c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9v4tt4+khv5@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "jenP_97" <jenP_97 at y...> wrote:
> I woke up in the middle of the night last night with severe pain on 
> my left side.  Of course, being hormonal and everything, I'm 
thinking 
> bad thoughts - miscarriage, ectopic pregnancy, etc.  Luckily, I 
> scheduled my first real OB appt. for *today* (!), so I just hobbled 
> to my Dr's office to complain after perhaps 3 hours of restless 
> sleep.  

Don't worry, everything will be okay for you! Lot's of well-wishes 
coming your way. My mum has had two more children recently (they are 
3 and 1) and I know how worried she was until the middle of her THIRD 
trimester as she's had two miscarriages and one stillbirth. I hope 
you're feeling better soon and remember to keep positive!
Sofie xxx




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 11 14:04:30 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 14:04:30 -0000
Subject: British Literature Characters
In-Reply-To: <029c01c1822c$31546170$e500a8c0@shasta>
Message-ID: <9v53pe+29r6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Aberforth's Goat" 
<Aberforths_Goat at Y...> wrote:
> Prof. Phlash said,
> 
> > Then my daughter decided the teacher was
> > thinking of something a little more "classic."
> 
> Let's see ... wasn't Grendel - the monster in Beowulf - a girl 
> monster? (If I'm imagining things, please assume that this post 
> was written by a virus
> ... )

Is the teacher being snobbish about Harry Potter because it's 
popular or because it's perceived to be a children's book?  There 
are plenty of characters from children's literature that would be 
very distinctive.  To name a few, there's Alice in Wonderland, Mary 
Poppins, and probably the most distinctive, Pippi Longstocking.  I 
dare her to not recognize THAT one!

She could go wearing a slip and say she's Maggie the Cat from "Cat 
on a Hot Tin Roof."  She could dress as an old woman and say she's 
Norman Bates, from "Psycho" (written by Robert Bloch--it was NOT a 
movie first).  Or she could get a second-hand wedding gown and go as 
Miss Havisham (Great Expectations).  Hmm.  Somehow this veered 
into "dress as the most INSANE character from literature..."

--Barb
("...the horror...the horror...")

Get Psyched Out!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP_Psych
http://schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb





From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Tue Dec 11 15:56:48 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 15:56:48 -0000
Subject: fanfic/speculation - more bletherings
Message-ID: <9v5ac0+jftf@eGroups.com>

On the main list, "gwendolyngrace" <lee_hillman at u...> wrote:

> My question concerns the nature of speculation with and without a
> narrative context. How are the processes alike and where do they 
cease
> to be the same? 

I understand the main difference to be precisely the narrative 
context.  I did try to work out a fanfic in my mind, and it fell over 
because, while the *idea* was competent enough, I was unable to 
develop a *sequence of events* to hang it on.  Obviously, if you can 
make up sequences of events, you have a very powerful mechanism for 
testing canon theories, so to that extent, fanfic is superior to 
theoretical speculation.

In theory, we should be able to develop a 'constrained' rather 
than 'specific' narrative.  For example, the possibilities for 
Snape's task are very constrained by factors such as Dumbledore's 
apprehension and its long-planned nature.  But it's impossible, 
without fundamentally changing the English language, to postulate 
generic scenarios - we can only postulate specific ones, such as 
returning to Voldemort.

> Without the narrative context, what devices do canon-only 
participants
> permit themselves to use in order to coordinate theories with the
> 'facts' as they have been presented?

There is no easy answer to this - it's more like a box of tricks:  
ask yourself questions such as:

-under what circumstances would my theory fall down?
-does anyone in canon display ignorance of something they would know 
if my theory were true?
-if my theory were true, would things happen which didn't happen?
-if I work out the existing narrative in detail, does my theory hold 
(think of when H & H would appear twice on the map, for example)

Notice that the key is to try to force your theory to *fail*, as in 
all scientific endeavour.  I don't have a conscious checklist - it's 
much more of a gestalt thing.  If someone asks, is Dumbledore related 
to Harry, it just clicks in: he said the Dursleys are the only 
relatives.

I think the fundamental device is to keep 'fact' separate 
from 'theory' in your mind.  None of us is very good at this, because 
a good theory replaces a large pile of facts so economically (and a 
bad one seems to).  So, rather than, say, deciding that Snape is or 
is not a vampire, keep all the bits of canon in mind that bear on the 
question, and don't decide.  Develop interpretations of conflicting 
evidence (ie explain away the garlic if he isn't; explain away 
the 'non-wizarding part-humans' if he is) and keep them in your mind 
as interpretations *while still retaining all the facts*.

Every time you read something about Hermione, keep both 'old 
Hermione' and 'young Hermione' in mind.

> Mahoney said she would allow her theories to derive from the books 
and
> deviate up "to a point." I guess I'm curious to know _where_ that
> point falls between theory and narrative so that it's not deviated
> "too far" and yet still accounts for all the questions that arise
> while actually engaging in the writing process.

I think I'm basically with you on this - that speculation suffers 
from the supposed disadvantages of fanfic in terms of diverging from, 
and 'polluting' canon.  There is no such point.  With the very little 
fanfic that I've read, I found no difficulty in seeing the characters 
as essentially different from canon - though stylistic differences in 
writing may have helped here.  Thus POU Hermione does not affect my 
understanding of canon Hermione.  In the same way, I can read 
somebody's speculation and keep my own perception intact - unless I 
choose to change it.
> 
> Ack. It's getting more difficut to clarify, instead of less. Does
> anyone get this?

I think, mainly, yes.  I like it.

David




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Tue Dec 11 11:26:59 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:26:59 EST5EDT
Subject: British Literature Characters
Message-ID: <137083622D3@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

My brother and I went as Aslan and Lucy to a costume party 
one time.  My brother's costume was awesome.  My mom spent 
almost a month sewing it together.  Mine was pretty 
straight forward but I carried a box of "Turkish Delight" 
around with me.  Yes, I know....it was Edward who had a 
Turkish Delight fetish...but at the time, it was the only 
thing I could think of to carry around.  We tried to find a 
faun but...those are rather scarce in Southern Ohio.

:-)

PS.....heard recently that The Narnia Chronicles have been 
picked up to become a live action movie.....if they mess up 
my Aslan, I'll raise more Hell than humanly possible.

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

2. His homework ate the dog.
          - Top Ten Signs Your Son's A Wizard
            David Letterman



From lee_hillman at urmc.rochester.edu  Tue Dec 11 16:41:11 2001
From: lee_hillman at urmc.rochester.edu (gwendolyngrace)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:41:11 -0000
Subject: fanfic/speculation - more bletherings
In-Reply-To: <9v5ac0+jftf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9v5cv7+92bk@eGroups.com>

Dave says I'm not insane!

He wrote:
>
> I understand the main difference to be precisely the narrative
> context.  I did try to work out a fanfic in my mind, and it fell over
> because, while the *idea* was competent enough, I was unable to
> develop a *sequence of events* to hang it on.  Obviously, if you can
> make up sequences of events, you have a very powerful mechanism for
> testing canon theories, so to that extent, fanfic is superior to
> theoretical speculation.
>

That's kind of where I was heading. I think that more theories "fall
down" or fail to borrow your terms when one tries to hold them up in a
narrative. The ones that can survive such scrutiny and still remain
constrained by the canonical evidence then have greater weight, IMO.

Dave again:
> I think the fundamental device is to keep 'fact' separate
> from 'theory' in your mind.  None of us is very good at this, because
> a good theory replaces a large pile of facts so economically (and a
> bad one seems to).  So, rather than, say, deciding that Snape is or
> is not a vampire, keep all the bits of canon in mind that bear on the
> question, and don't decide.  Develop interpretations of conflicting
> evidence (ie explain away the garlic if he isn't; explain away
> the 'non-wizarding part-humans' if he is) and keep them in your mind
> as interpretations *while still retaining all the facts*.
>

This is very interesting. But do you think non-fanfic writers are any
better at this than fanfic writers?

In one sense, I could argue that the person who doesn't write is
better, because the writer must "commit" to a theory in order to use
it as the structural basis for the story framework.

But then, OTOH, there are those non-fanfic folks who believe just as
vehemently in their theories and reject others. They have still
"committed" to their version of the facts, without ever having put
themselves through the process of writing it. So are they more or less
likely to acknowledge different but equal possibilities?

Dave:
> I think I'm basically with you on this - that speculation suffers
> from the supposed disadvantages of fanfic in terms of diverging from,
> and 'polluting' canon.  There is no such point.  With the very little
> fanfic that I've read, I found no difficulty in seeing the characters
> as essentially different from canon - though stylistic differences in
> writing may have helped here.  Thus POU Hermione does not affect my
> understanding of canon Hermione.  In the same way, I can read
> somebody's speculation and keep my own perception intact - unless I
> choose to change it.

Yes! That's kind of what I think too. Personally, I think I've done a
good job (and I'm assured in most cases that this is true) of staying
"in character" with my HP fanfic, keeping even Draco from becoming a
misunderstood, nice but sarcastic kid who really wants to be good, and
just isn't allowed the chance. ;^) And yet, there were still actions I
chose or needed the HP characters to take, to further my own plot
agenda, and while I believe it was in character to do so, I received
reviews saying it wasn't.

Whose perception determines what was in or out of character? Both of
ours. In my perception, it was okay, an action the character might
have pursued in those circumstances. For the reader, it wasn't okay,
because she didn't believe X would "do that" no matter what the circ's.

I also want to respond to the post Dave put on the main list, where he
asked:

"Are you saying that expressing your conclusions in relatively
abstract logical form (as I think you do) costs you extra work
because it is alien to the way you reach those conclusions?"

Yes and no. I tend to come up with question/theory first, then in the
process of working it through, begin the writing process at the same
time. So it's no extra effort for me to present my thoughts in a
formal, logical format than it is to do it through fanfic, with the
exception that the information is organized a different way.

I keep extensive notes as I write. When something comes up, "Oh
piffle! What about the moon?" I go back to the source and see what I
can figure out. The research gets collected in the detatched, logical
stuff that I wind up posting to HP4GU (and that most sane people
ignore ;^)). But the conclusions from the research find their way into
the fanfic.

Mahoney just sent me a private email where she very astutely reflected
that she sees straight speculation and fanfic writing as the same
thing, but merely presented in a different format.

I think if that definition is true, than to some extent, aren't all
listies participating in analysis also contributing to fanfic?

Brain fuzz. Can't continue.

Gwen




From absinthe at mad.scientist.com  Tue Dec 11 16:58:22 2001
From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milztoday)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:58:22 -0000
Subject: British Literature Characters
In-Reply-To: <9v3npk+gnb4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9v5dve+d962@eGroups.com>

British literature characters....


Sarah Crewe (The Little Princess)
Mary (The Secret Garden)
Nancy (Oliver Twist)
Little Nell (The Olde Curiosity Shoppe)
The Woman in White (The Woman in White by Wilke Collins)
Isolde (Tristan and Isolde)
Lady MacBeth
Cressida (Troilus and Cressida)
Galadriel (LOTR)
Arwen (LOTR)
Wendy (Peter Pan)
Lady Chatterly
One of King Lear's daughters
Clarissa (Clarissa by Samuel Richardson)
Moll Flanders
The Nun from Canterbury Tales







From mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Dec 11 18:16:42 2001
From: mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk (Martin Hooper)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:16:42 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: British Literature Characters
In-Reply-To: <137083622D3@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011211181620.009fd680@pop.freeserve.net>

At 11:26 11/12/01, you wrote:
>PS.....heard recently that The Narnia Chronicles have been
>picked up to become a live action movie.....if they mess up
>my Aslan, I'll raise more Hell than humanly possible.

Cool - Some of my favourite books...  Hope it does the stories justice...


Martin Hooper
AIM:martinjh99 ICQ: 43933602




From absinthe at mad.scientist.com  Tue Dec 11 18:36:46 2001
From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milztoday)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:36:46 -0000
Subject: Narnia (was Re: British Literature Characters)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011211181620.009fd680@pop.freeserve.net>
Message-ID: <9v5jnu+8ftd@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Martin Hooper <mat at h...> wrote:
> At 11:26 11/12/01, you wrote:
> >PS.....heard recently that The Narnia Chronicles have been
> >picked up to become a live action movie.....if they mess up
> >my Aslan, I'll raise more Hell than humanly possible.
> 
> Cool - Some of my favourite books...  Hope it does the stories 
justice...
> 

Didn't they dramatize three of the Narnia books in the late 1980s? I 
remember watching them on tv.

Milz




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Tue Dec 11 18:43:36 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:43:36 -0000
Subject: fanfic/speculation - more bletherings (much shorter)
In-Reply-To: <9v5cv7+92bk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9v5k4o+3rf6@eGroups.com>

Gwen wrote a lot of stuff I liked a lot, and then:

> Mahoney just sent me a private email where she very astutely 
reflected
> that she sees straight speculation and fanfic writing as the same
> thing, but merely presented in a different format.
> 
> I think if that definition is true, than to some extent, aren't all
> listies participating in analysis also contributing to fanfic?

I think the answer is yes, *provided* doing analysis involves 
speculation.  I think what I believe about this is that most of what 
passes for analysis contains a degree of speculation.  I'm not sure I 
could prove it *all* does.

Of course, if we adopt Pippin's view that the Potterverse is 
catastrophic rather than logical, then all statements that are not 
direct quotes from the books are speculation.
> 
> Brain fuzz. Can't continue.

Get well soon

David




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 11 19:10:22 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:10:22 -0000
Subject: fanfic/speculation - more bletherings
In-Reply-To: <9v5cv7+92bk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9v5lmu+m83m@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "gwendolyngrace" <lee_hillman at u...> 
wrote:
Dave wrote:
> > I understand the main difference to be precisely the narrative
> > context.  I did try to work out a fanfic in my mind, and it fell 
> > over because, while the *idea* was competent enough, I was 
> > unable to develop a *sequence of events* to hang it on.  
> > Obviously, if you can make up sequences of events, you have a 
> > very powerful mechanism for testing canon theories, so to that 
> > extent, fanfic is superior to theoretical speculation.

I do think it is true that I began to write fanfic as a way of 
fleshing out some of my theories of what could eventually happen in 
canon.  Plus,  I read other fanfics, and while I enjoyed them, I 
didn't see any of the stories going where I imagined things going, 
and so I began to sort it all out on paper, eventually writing a 
monster of a fic (650 pages in my word processor).
 
> Dave again:
> > I think the fundamental device is to keep 'fact' separate
> > from 'theory' in your mind.  None of us is very good at this, 
> > because a good theory replaces a large pile of facts so 
> > economically (and a bad one seems to).  So, rather than, say, 
> > deciding that Snape is or is not a vampire, keep all the bits of 
> > canon in mind that bear on the question, and don't decide.  
> > Develop interpretations of conflicting evidence (ie explain away 
> > the garlic if he isn't; explain away the 'non-wizarding part-
> > humans' if he is) and keep them in your mind as interpretations 
> > *while still retaining all the facts*.

I personally think that animal similes are an integral element of 
Rowling's writing style, and shouldn't be taken as more significant 
than that; it's been proposed, for instance, that Molly is a saber-
toothed tiger Animagus because JKR compares her to this animal at 
one point!  I think this is going way overboard; EVERYONE isn't an 
Animagus!  It should be noted, for instance, that even McGonagall 
and Rita Skeeter, when they are in their human forms, do not elicit 
a huge number of animal similes from JKR.  Sirius does sometimes, 
but those were chiefly times when he was spending long periods 
disguised as a dog and one was given the impression that he'd almost 
forgotten how to be human as a result.  The other similes--and I 
think references to Snape's resemblance to a bat are included here--
are chiefly to paint vivid word pictures, and sometimes to induce us 
to compare the person to the animal in question.

The way I dealt with the Snape theories was by giving Snape 
porphyria, a disease which was mistaken for vampirism many times 
over the centuries.  I depicted a young Snape in school with other 
students--including Sirius Black--who teased him mercilessly about 
being a vampire because of this disease.  In Snape's case, I don't 
believe JKR will either reveal Snape to be a vampire, bat Animagus 
or person with porphyria; I was merely tweaking the fandom theory 
that he was a vampire, a theory based on one of JKR's chief literary 
devices.  So while many of us are speculating on what will develop 
eventually in canon, there's also a certain amount of puckishness 
going on in fanfiction.  (Think of how many cameos Simon Branford 
has, for instance.<g>)  We're doing this to have fun, after all. 
Plus, there are also things we'd LIKE to happen in canon, and 
perhaps knowing that we will never see these things (from JKR's 
mouth, for instance), we put them in fanfics.  While we all love the 
books, I think everyone can think of at least one thing they would 
do differently, and in fanfic we have that freedom.

> This is very interesting. But do you think non-fanfic writers are 
> any better at this than fanfic writers?
> 
> In one sense, I could argue that the person who doesn't write is
> better, because the writer must "commit" to a theory in order to 
> use it as the structural basis for the story framework.

But one is only committed for the duration of that piece of work.  I 
personally hold many conflicting theories of what will happen; I 
just haven't had time yet to explore all of them through fanfic.

> But then, OTOH, there are those non-fanfic folks who believe just 
> as vehemently in their theories and reject others. They have still
> "committed" to their version of the facts, without ever having put
> themselves through the process of writing it. So are they more or 
> less likely to acknowledge different but equal possibilities?

I believe that in addition to putting the word "committed" in quotes 
you should have done the same with "facts."  Until JKR writes it and 
makes it available for the general public, it ain't canon.  (And 
even then, there are Flints, like the wand-order mistake.)  But I 
don't believe that non-fanfic writers have a monopoly on rigidity; 
I've seen this come from both sides of the fence.

> Dave:
> > I think I'm basically with you on this - that speculation suffers
> > from the supposed disadvantages of fanfic in terms of diverging 
> > from, and 'polluting' canon.  There is no such point.  With the 
> > very little fanfic that I've read, I found no difficulty in 
> > seeing the characters as essentially different from canon - 
> > though stylistic differences in writing may have helped here.  
> > Thus POU Hermione does not affect my understanding of canon 
> > Hermione.  In the same way, I can read somebody's speculation 
> > and keep my own perception intact - unless I choose to change it.

Some people seem to be very hostile to fanfic and do indeed think 
it "pollutes" canon.  No one forces them to read it.  I usually find 
myself put off by fics that contain bad grammar and spelling more 
than "bad" content, although if the fic includes things like people 
Apparating on the grounds of Hogwarts, no matter how well-written it 
is, I'll probably stop reading it.  And I've seen one or two things 
lately where the writer obviously didn't read the books, only saw 
the film (the writer didn't know how many older brothers Ron had and 
made up a name for one).  When so much information is available in 
the books, a clear failure to do research throws a big old wet 
blanket on the fic for me.  

> Yes! That's kind of what I think too. Personally, I think I've 
> done a good job (and I'm assured in most cases that this is true) 
> of staying "in character" with my HP fanfic, keeping even Draco 
> from becoming a misunderstood, nice but sarcastic kid who really 
> wants to be good, and just isn't allowed the chance. ;^) And yet, 
> there were still actions I chose or needed the HP characters to 
> take, to further my own plot agenda, and while I believe it was in 
> character to do so, I received reviews saying it wasn't.

Sounds similar to my Draco.  I'll have to take a look at it.  (Mine 
is still pretty snide, though.)  Readers do bring a lot of baggage 
to a fic, and I've had people say they both love and hate my version 
of Ron (usually based on whether they love or hate him in canon).  
There's no agreement on this, but then, there's no agreement on 
canon Ron, either.
 
> Mahoney just sent me a private email where she very astutely 
> reflected that she sees straight speculation and fanfic writing as 
> the same thing, but merely presented in a different format.

That sounds about right.  I think most of us are positing possible 
scenarios and trying to see whether they're plausible by doing what 
Dave talked about and trying to find the *sequence of events* that 
would lead to the speculated event that was the impetus for writing 
the fic.  
 
> I think if that definition is true, than to some extent, aren't all
> listies participating in analysis also contributing to fanfic?

Oh, definitely.  I never would have thought of Snape having 
porphyria if it weren't for the HPfGU list!

--Barb

Get Psyched Out!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP_Psych
http://schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb





From mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Dec 11 19:29:45 2001
From: mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk (Martin Hooper)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:29:45 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Narnia (was Re: British Literature
  Characters)
In-Reply-To: <9v5jnu+8ftd@eGroups.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011211181620.009fd680@pop.freeserve.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011211192901.00a0a5a0@pop.freeserve.net>

At 18:36 11/12/01, you wrote:
>Didn't they dramatize three of the Narnia books in the late 1980s? I
>remember watching them on tv.

Yeah The BBC did them...  They certainly did justice to the stories.  Can't 
remember the stories they did apart from The Lion, The Witch and the 
Wardrobe.... ;)


Martin Hooper
AIM:martinjh99 ICQ: 43933602




From Calypso8604 at aol.com  Tue Dec 11 20:20:55 2001
From: Calypso8604 at aol.com (Calypso8604 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 15:20:55 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Narnia (was Re: British Literature Characters)
Message-ID: <171.572816b.2947c4a7@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/11/2001 1:42:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
absinthe at mad.scientist.com writes:


> Didn't they dramatize three of the Narnia books in the late 1980s? I 
> remember watching them on tv.
> 
> Milz
> 


There is an old movie version of Lion, Witch, and the Wardrobe. I watched it 
last year along with a bunch of other movies based off books when stuck home 
with the flu. To put it simply; it sucked. Perhaps I am far too critical 
about books being made into movies but I did not like the movie version at 
all. The acting was horrendous. 


Calypso 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Tue Dec 11 20:27:53 2001
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:27:53 -0000
Subject: Narnia (was Re: British Literature Characters)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011211192901.00a0a5a0@pop.freeserve.net>
Message-ID: <9v5q89+ku8r@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter, Martin Hooper wrote:
> Yeah The BBC did them...  They certainly did justice to the
> stories.  Can't remember the stories they did apart from The
> Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe.... ;)
> 
> 
> Martin Hooper

I believe they did four of the books in three series each of roughly 
equal length (ca. 7-8 fourty-minute episodes per series, as I 
recall): 
*  "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" 
*  "Prince Caspian" and "The Voyage of the Dawn Treader"
   combined into one series
*  "The Silver Chair".

Best regards
Christian Stub?




From crabtree at ktc.com  Wed Dec 12 00:38:45 2001
From: crabtree at ktc.com (professorphlash)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 00:38:45 -0000
Subject: Car shopping rant
In-Reply-To: <9v41ms+2sc5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9v68ul+nqli@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "catlady_de_los_angeles" <catlady at w...> 
wrote: I 
> asked Tim: "Why do we have to go through all this stupid 
> horse-trading?!" and he said: "Look at what it's called. Probably 
the 
> people who used to sell horses moved to selling cars when the 
> market for horses got real small."


My husband must have been a "horse trader" in another life.  He seems 
to enjoy all of the dickering over price.  Of course he is a loan 
officer, so his life centers around making a good deal with money.  
The last time we bought a car, we sat down and decided exactly what we 
wanted, then he called around to five dealers within 100 miles and 
told them we were taking bids. We bought the car from the dealer that 
gave us the best price which turned out to be reasonable.  Just 
yesterday he bought a new pick up.  The dealers would give him only 
$2500 for the old one so he found a mechanic who was willing to give 
$4900.  Then he bought the pickup from his little brother (20 years 
younger that my hubby) who is just starting out as a car salesman.  
Bless his heart.  He probably had no idea what "horse trading" with 
his big brother was going to be like. We were needing a new pickup, 
and that 0% GM financing couldn't be passed up.

Professor Phlash - who is loving the replies to British characters




From firefightermichelle at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 12 01:33:50 2001
From: firefightermichelle at yahoo.com (firefightermichelle)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 01:33:50 -0000
Subject: Hairless dads and cars
Message-ID: <9v6c5u+r64d@eGroups.com>

My dad, well, technically my step-dad, but he's my dad ... don't ask, 
well ask if you want to ... any way ... when I first met him he had a 
full beard.  Well, I was 7, my mom was 28 and married the guy.  About 
6 months after we moved to the States, he went into the bathroom and 
shaved it all off.  Well, he walks into the living room, facial hair-
less and my mom freaks out and doesn't know who it is.  I figured it 
out pretty quickly, but my mom was pretty freaked! ... it was very, 
VERY funny.

My dad, who was in the US Navy and had his own car mechanic business 
on the side, went into a Ford dealership one day to buy a new truck 
looking rather grungy and dirty.  He starts looking at this truck 
that is rather high priced and hte salesman comes up and says, "Well, 
let's go look at something more in your price range."  My dad looks 
at him like he is nuts and says, "thanks, you just lost a sale, I had 
$10,000 in case to put down on this truck, but I guess I'll go buy it 
somewhere else."  The salesmans jaw hit the floor and my dad walked 
off.  I dislike carsalesmen.  And car saleswomen, they try to be your 
best friend and talk about how the guys are smarmy and a girl knwos 
what it's like trying to buy a car.  

so there ya go, my 2 dad stories for the night :)

Michelle <--- who doesn't think anyone, even her with her bad credit, 
should have a 15.49% APR on a car.




From pbarhug at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 12 01:39:52 2001
From: pbarhug at earthlink.net (Pam Hugonnet)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:39:52 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Jen's update on hurting bellies and a funny Ginger 
 story
References: <9utnv6+u5dn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3C16B568.D5E21181@earthlink.net>

jenP_97 wrote:

> Now... I went to the emergency room last night with some severe pain
> - spent 6 (SIX!) hours there and had some nasty things done to me
> (had a very mean ultrasound tech that I'd dealt with before - the
> first time I met her, she yelled at me and made me feel inadequate
> because I didn't have a full bladder!).  In any case, when the doctor
> finally got a chance to see me, he poked me (gently, thank goodness),
> prodded me, made me do some calisthenics(!), and then proclaimed that
> the baby was doing very well (and was in the right spot!) and that
> I'd just pulled an abdominal muscle somehow.  YAY!  I'm in tons of
> pain, but at least I know what's causing it, and I know that all
> things baby are going well.
>

    I know this is an old post ( I've got better than 1000 messages in
my inbox--the kids have been sick) but I had to reply.
First, congratulations on the new baby; you must have mentioned you were
pregnant earlier and I probably missed the post.  When is the baby due?

Hope you're doing better with the pulled muscle.  I've managed to do
that in each of my pregnancies; because the abdominal muscles are under
such strain in pregnancy anyway, it only takes the slightest movement to
wrench one.  Heating pads, especially moist heat, seem to help.

Remember, take it slow.

drpam
/who is pulling an all-nighter but is about to fall asleep right now.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 12 02:07:25 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:07:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Hairless dads and cars
In-Reply-To: <9v6c5u+r64d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20011212020725.12073.qmail@web13703.mail.yahoo.com>


--- firefightermichelle
<firefightermichelle at yahoo.com> wrote:
> he went into
> the bathroom and 
> shaved it all off.  Well, he walks into the living
> room, facial hair-
> less and my mom freaks out and doesn't know who it
> is.  I figured it 
> out pretty quickly, but my mom was pretty freaked!
> ... it was very, 
> VERY funny.
> 
> My dad, who was in the US Navy and had his own car
> mechanic business 
> > Michelle <--- who doesn't think anyone, even her
> with her bad credit, 
> should have a 15.49% APR on a car.


Loved both stories! My boys acted the same way when
their Dad shaved all facial and all hair off his head!
They were 2 and 3 at the time. When Roy came out, they
took off screaming! Dad had to calm them down, as soon
as they heard his voice that is!
APR's are awful! Instead, of trying to help somebody,
they want you paying on this for years! Any more happy
memories please send them on out! You take care
Michelle, firefighter and HERO, or would you prefer
HEROINE? Either way, your our Hero, Heroine on our
list!

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Very
Merry Band of Muggles 100%   


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com



From meboriqua at aol.com  Wed Dec 12 02:44:08 2001
From: meboriqua at aol.com (jennyandraul)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 02:44:08 -0000
Subject: British Literature Characters
In-Reply-To: <9v3npk+gnb4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9v6g9o+p4ci@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "professorphlash" <crabtree at k...> wrote:

 
> My daughter, a senior in high school, is invited to a party for her 
AP English class at the teacher's home.  The students are supposed to 
dress as a character from British literature.>

When I was a senior in college, while I was working on my senior 
thesis which focused on the Chronicles of Narnia, I had fun dressing 
up as the White Witch.  I made a wand and a box of Turkish Delights, 
wore a long white dress and covered my face with white makeup.

I also got drunk, but that wasn't part of the costume.

--jenny from ravenclaw ******************************************




From saitaina at wizzards.net  Wed Dec 12 02:57:25 2001
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:57:25 -0800
Subject: A small...moment of your time, please
References: <9v6c5u+r64d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001301c182b8$bb70a6c0$114e28d1@oemcomputer>

To my friends-

As some of you may have noticed, I've...not been around recently, not
posting or in chat as much as usual.  I've been distant and away a great
deal of the time this past two months.  I have recently, as in the past five
minutes, come to terms with something I've been dreading for a while.

For an explanation I need to tell you something that...some of you may know,
but for you to understand I must tell it to you again.  Nearly 14 years ago
I was a small child, seven years old when I first discovered the demons that
were in my head.  No, I'm not exactly crazy, but I am mentally imbalanced.
Part of it is an inherited condition, both from my mother and my father, and
the other...is a disease I got all on my own, known as clinical depression,
(for those that do not know what this is, I think private email would be the
best to explain, so if you need to ask, contact me at
saitaina at wizzards.net).

For ten years I battled these demons, mostly losing, ending up in hospitals
and foster homes, and nearly in the grave in one case.  I spent ten, very
LONG years, trying to dig my way out of a hole that never had an opening.  I
discovered that while I would always be in that hole, I could gain ground
and stop it.  When I was 17 I found a way to live my life normally, to fight
depression and win.

Unfortunately, never getting out of the hole means that there is always a
chance I could find myself back at the bottom.  And today, I found myself
nearly there.  It's something that I never thought I would see again and
it's been hard for me to deal with. This is why I haven't been around as
much, haven't been a friend to you all I should have been...as a companion
and aquantince.  I'm sorry for this, so very sorry.  But right now, I need
to take time to heal myself.  To remember why the fight is worth it.

While this doesn't mean I'm leaving you...it does mean I'm going to be
absent for a lot longer then I expected.  I love you all dearly...you are
the one shining light in my life right now.  You are the beacon, to lead be
back to a path of normalcy.  And I thank you for being there and hope you
will remain.

I have come in the long time I have known you all to regard you as a family
I don't have, and as friends I desperately need, even though I barley know
any of you.  That is why I'm taking the time now to write this to you, as I
think that you deserve to know.  We may be but stranger passing through this
life, but you are a part of mine that I treasure.

Thank you for taking a brief moment to read this, even if you don't give me
a second thought in your day today, I know that for one brief moment, you
allowed me to speak.

Saitaina

P.S. On a slightly happy note, for those that read the works I write, you
will soon be seeing more of them as I find it healing to write.  So stay
alert for those.






From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 12 03:24:25 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:24:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] A small...moment of your time, please
In-Reply-To: <001301c182b8$bb70a6c0$114e28d1@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <20011212032425.39207.qmail@web13702.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Saitaina <saitaina at wizzards.net> wrote:
> To my friends-
> 
> > Thank you for taking a brief moment to read this,
> even if you don't give me
> a second thought in your day today, I know that for
> one brief moment, you
> allowed me to speak.
> 
> Saitaina
> 
> P.S. On a slightly happy note, for those that read
> the works I write, you
> will soon be seeing more of them as I find it
> healing to write.  So stay
> alert for those.
 
I know what you are going through. I have a brother
David who is chemically imbalanced also, he needs to
be on meds. When he is not on meds, he thinks he is
possessed and it is a very scary sight! But I have
learned more about him with all the tough times with
him! Writing is good! The more you put your mind on
that, it will soothe and calm you and more for all of
us to read! Please don't go into hiding! Easier said
than done, but you have an outreach here and I'm sure
you will get the posts to prove it! Also, your card
brought much joy into my home! So, you see, you are
with us anyway! Please email me off post anytime! As a
matter of fact, you will probably get many invites to
post others! We are here for all! If I can help, I
certainly hope I can!
Cyber hugs to you!

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her
Concerned Band of Muggles 100%
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com



From golden_faile at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 12 04:01:19 2001
From: golden_faile at yahoo.com (golden faile)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:01:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Narnia (was Re: British Literature  Characters)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011211192901.00a0a5a0@pop.freeserve.net>
Message-ID: <20011212040119.73960.qmail@web14610.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Martin Hooper <mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk>
wrote:
> At 18:36 11/12/01, you wrote:
> >Didn't they dramatize three of the Narnia books in
> the late 1980s? I
> >remember watching them on tv.
> 
> Yeah The BBC did them...  They certainly did justice
> to the stories.  Can't 
> remember the stories they did apart from The Lion,
> The Witch and the 
> Wardrobe.... ;)
> 
> 
> They did, The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe,
Prince Caspian, Voyage of The Dawn Treader and The
Silver Chair. I have them all on tape.

Laila

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com



From nlpnt at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 12 05:17:29 2001
From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 05:17:29 -0000
Subject: Narnia (was Re: British Literature  Characters)
In-Reply-To: <20011212040119.73960.qmail@web14610.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9v6p99+mong@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., golden faile <golden_faile at y...> wrote:
> 
> --- Martin Hooper <mat at h...>
> wrote:
> > At 18:36 11/12/01, you wrote:
> > >Didn't they dramatize three of the Narnia books in
> > the late 1980s? I
> > >remember watching them on tv.
> > 
> > Yeah The BBC did them...  They certainly did justice
> > to the stories.  Can't 
> > remember the stories they did apart from The Lion,
> > The Witch and the 
> > Wardrobe.... ;)
> > 
> > 
> > They did, The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe,
> Prince Caspian, Voyage of The Dawn Treader and The
> Silver Chair. I have them all on tape.
> 
> Laila

These were pretty good; however, being done bu the BBC, while the 
1940s British details were perfect, the special effects (pre-Red 
Dwarf) were *HORRIBLE!!* Among them was an Aslan that looked like a 
giant stuffed animal, Talking Beavers that were obviously prople in 
beaver suits, and a Cair Paravel that was just a small, old castle 
that could be seen from the Stone Table (putting the Greater Beruna 
Metropolitan Area far closer to CP than canon)
   I could live with the kids being modern Californians (rumor I 
heard) as long as Narnia looks like a sovreign nation in a parallel 
universe rather than the back forty of some English country estate!




From catlady at wicca.net  Wed Dec 12 05:48:24 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 05:48:24 -0000
Subject: A small...moment of your time, please
In-Reply-To: <001301c182b8$bb70a6c0$114e28d1@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <9v6r38+duj9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Saitaina" <saitaina at w...> wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately, never getting out of the hole means that there is 
> always a chance I could find myself back at the bottom.  And today,
> I found myself nearly there.  It's something that I never thought I 
> would see again and it's been hard for me to deal with. 

Oh, dear, Saitaina, please feel better.
Write or e-mail or YM me if you ever want to. I would have sent 
this off-list, except I have a TERRIBLE track record of my 
e-mails to you bounce more than my e-mails to anyone once.




From puddlemereunited at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Dec 12 09:56:51 2001
From: puddlemereunited at yahoo.co.uk (puddlemereunited)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:56:51 -0000
Subject: A Call to Fanfiction Writers
Message-ID: <9v79l3+6jse@eGroups.com>

As this group has become my primary source for all things Fanfiction I 
thought I might ask for some special assistance here first.  
I am working on putting together a small online collection of HP 
Fanfic, and I am in need of a few submissions.  
The goal of this project is to collect a series of short Fanfictions 
that explore a single character from the canon in a new and 
interesting way.  I hope to compile stories for as many as the HP 
characters as possible in an effort to create a "secret history" for 
each of them.
The sort of story I am looking for would be short and self-contained 
(perhaps up to 3000 words) with only one main character as the focus.  
This story would show us something about the character in question 
which we have not seen or has not been fully developed yet by JKR.
As for topics or genres or styles, I have no preference (contrary to 
what some may believe).  Stories dealing with Gilderoy Lockhart 
brushing his hair would be as welcome as a recreation of Dumbledore's 
defeat of Grindelwald.
At the moment I would like to start with stories involving the older 
characters (though I'm sure some will claim Oliver Wood is old enough 
for them!), and gradually branch out into character studies of the 
younger inhabitants of Hogwarts.
Though I do not expect this project to be as comprehensive as Famous 
Wizards of the 20th Century, I hope that it might be both enjoyable 
and informative.
I do have several fanfictions already in mind, but I'm waiting to hear 
back from their authors... until then if you are having a difficult 
time visualizing what I am after, here is a link to my own humble 
contribution to fanfiction character study (I'm not going to tell you 
who it's about, it's a surprise :P ):

http://fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=493610

Submissions (links would probably be easier than actual files, if you 
have already posted it somewhere), suggestions, comments, and 
questions can all be addressed to me at puddlemereunited at yahoo.co.uk
I will try to keep everyone up to date on news of this venture :)

Cheers!
Evelyn




From sofie_elisabeth at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Dec 12 11:35:15 2001
From: sofie_elisabeth at yahoo.co.uk (sofie_elisabeth)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:35:15 -0000
Subject: A small...moment of your time, please
In-Reply-To: <001301c182b8$bb70a6c0$114e28d1@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <9v7fdj+qde3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Saitaina" <saitaina at w...> wrote:
> Thank you for taking a brief moment to read this, even if you don't 
> give me a second thought in your day today, I know that for one 
> brief moment, you allowed me to speak.

We're all here for you. As someone from a family very prone to 
depression and other mental illnesses I can understand completely 
what you are going through. My older brother is Schizophrenic and we 
(as a family) have had to almost physically carry him through the 
past five years. But now he's on his medication he is much better and 
getting on with life. I have also been in the hole that you are in 
and am probably still in it. But after three suicide attempts and a 
lot of support, I feel I can finally see the light at the top. 
Anyway, if you ever want someone to talk to feel free to e-mail me at 
sofie_elisabeth at yahoo.co.uk anytime and I will be there.

Sofie 





From sofie_elisabeth at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Dec 12 11:40:09 2001
From: sofie_elisabeth at yahoo.co.uk (sofie_elisabeth)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:40:09 -0000
Subject: Calling anyway who may have Scoliosis...
Message-ID: <9v7fmp+rfm3@eGroups.com>

I was diagnosed with Congenital Scoliosis in February (though I was 
diagnosed with Scoliosis three years ago.) Recently my treatment has 
been progressing very quickly and I'm feeling very overwhelmed. It's 
hard being the only one I know with this condtion and very 
frustrating not being able to make other people how scary the future 
is for me. If any of you have this condition/or know someone with it 
I'd really appreciate the support. I know it is asking a lot but I 
thought it might be worth a shot.
Sofie 




From absinthe at mad.scientist.com  Wed Dec 12 16:03:29 2001
From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milztoday)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:03:29 -0000
Subject: Calling anyway who may have Scoliosis...
In-Reply-To: <9v7fmp+rfm3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9v7v4h+ckfe@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "sofie_elisabeth" <sofie_elisabeth at y...> 
wrote:
> I was diagnosed with Congenital Scoliosis in February (though I was 
> diagnosed with Scoliosis three years ago.) Recently my treatment has 
> been progressing very quickly and I'm feeling very overwhelmed. It's 
> hard being the only one I know with this condtion and very 
> frustrating not being able to make other people how scary the future 
> is for me. If any of you have this condition/or know someone with it 
> I'd really appreciate the support. I know it is asking a lot but I 
> thought it might be worth a shot.
> Sofie

Here are a few web sites with support groups
For the US: http://www.ai.mit.edu/extra/scoliosis/support.html
For the UK: http://www.scoliosis-world.com/cat21.htm
Non-specified: http://www.scoliosis-assoc.org/

Yahoo-Groups has 18 scoliosis related groups
http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=scoliosis

I hope the above information will help you through this time. Also, I 
strongly encourage you to talk to your physician about your feelings 
and concerns as he/she should be able to refer you to a local group. 
Doctors usually seem rushed (here in the US) but if you tell your 
doctors about your feelings, I'm pretty sure he'll lend a sympathetic 
ear.

Milz.




From absinthe at mad.scientist.com  Wed Dec 12 16:15:21 2001
From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milztoday)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:15:21 -0000
Subject: Narnia (was Re: British Literature  Characters)
In-Reply-To: <9v6p99+mong@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9v7vqp+bg0h@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "nlpnt" <nlpnt at y...> wrote:
>    I could live with the kids being modern Californians (rumor I 
> heard) as long as Narnia looks like a sovreign nation in a parallel 
> universe rather than the back forty of some English country estate!

MODERN CALIFORNIANS!???!<gasp!> MODERN CALIFORNIANS??!

What will the White Witch tempt Edmund with....an X-Box??? More 
importantly would the children even be CALLED Peter, Susan, Edmund and 
Lucy? Oh dear...I can see it now: Jordan, Britney, Cody and Dakota. 
The Professor would be the next-door neighbor of their divorced 
father, who has them for the summer. Mrs. McCready would probably be 
their father's live-in girlfriend. The wardrobe won't contain four fur 
coats, but rather four ski jackets.... 


Milz, carefully listening to C.S. Lewis turning over in his grave!






From bray.262 at osu.edu  Wed Dec 12 11:25:17 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:25:17 EST5EDT
Subject: Narnia (was Re: British Literature Characters)
Message-ID: <14F01705809@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

What will the White Witch tempt Edmund with....an X-Box??? 
More 
importantly would the children even be CALLED Peter, Susan, 
Edmund and 
Lucy? Oh dear...I can see it now: Jordan, Britney, Cody and 
Dakota. 
The Professor would be the next-door neighbor of their 
divorced 
father, who has them for the summer. Mrs. McCready would 
probably be 
their father's live-in girlfriend. The wardrobe won't 
contain four fur 
coats, but rather four ski jackets.... 

OK.....thank you not only for the great laugh but also for 
stating one of my fears about all this.  That and the idea 
that they may destroy my Aslan.  *whimper*  I'm so worried.
Wow...this is just like Harry and LOTR.  Another DON'T LET 
HOLLYWOOD RUIN IT!  :-)
(though I was very pleased with Harry and so far, I think 
LOTR looks fabulous....I'm eager to see Gollum....my 
precioussssssssss)


Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

Adult Ralphie: Meanwhile, I struggled for exactly the 
right BB gun hint. It had to be firm, but subtle.

Young Ralphie: Flick says he saw some grizzly bears 
near Polaski's candy store!

Adult Ralphie: They looked at me as if I had lobsters 
crawling out of my ears. I could tell I was in imminent 
danger of overplaying my hand.
                           - A Christmas Story
Happy Holidays!



From sofie_elisabeth at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Dec 12 16:30:58 2001
From: sofie_elisabeth at yahoo.co.uk (sofie_elisabeth)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:30:58 -0000
Subject: Narnia (was Re: British Literature Characters)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011211192901.00a0a5a0@pop.freeserve.net>
Message-ID: <9v80o2+djft@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Martin Hooper <mat at h...> wrote:
> Can't remember the stories they did apart from The Lion, The Witch 
> and the Wardrobe....

They did Prince Caspian, Voyages of the Dawn Treader and the Silver 
Chair as well as the LWW. I loved them and was completly in love with 
Peter (as an eight year old!)





From absinthe at mad.scientist.com  Wed Dec 12 17:09:30 2001
From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milztoday)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:09:30 -0000
Subject: Narnia (was Re: British Literature Characters)
In-Reply-To: <14F01705809@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9v830a+eljd@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:

>That and the idea that they may destroy my Aslan.  *whimper*  I'm so 
>worried.

Whaddya mean..."they may destroy my Aslan"???? Are they even 
contemplating eliminating the Aslan character??? So what will they 
call the movie? "No Lion, The non-factually based Wiccan Being, and 
the Wardrobe??"  

Ya know, if I was a drinker this would be a 4 martini lunch type of 
day!

Milz. ("where's my aspirin?")






From bray.262 at osu.edu  Wed Dec 12 12:31:16 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:31:16 EST5EDT
Subject: Not the elimination of Aslan....
Message-ID: <1501ABC166F@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

No, not eliminating Aslan....I'm just worried they'll not 
make him as wonderful, loving, terrifying, and as HUGE as 
he's been in my mind for the last 24 years (I think it's 
been 24 years...hmmm....quick math.....32 minus 24 is...8 
years old....Yep.  24 years.)  I've always had him speaking 
in this delicious deep voice that booms across the land and 
warms you up from the inside.  Kind of like a James Earl 
Jones kind of voice.  I used to have dreams about finding 
Aslan in the woods behind my house and he was just enormous 
and so very scary but at the same time, so very tender and 
gentle and loving.

So that's my fear about Aslan.  Not that they'd cut him out 
(that's impossible) but that he's going to turn into 
something that wasn't what I had in mind at all.

Given, I know they'll have to CGI him.  It's not like any 
director is going to allow his children actors to hang out 
with a full grown lion....I just hope they do him justice.  
I was rather disappointed in Firenze in Harry Potter and 
Scooby Doo doesn't look as good as I thought he would...I 
guess it'll be a wait and see.

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

Adult Ralphie: Meanwhile, I struggled for exactly the 
right BB gun hint. It had to be firm, but subtle.

Young Ralphie: Flick says he saw some grizzly bears 
near Polaski's candy store!

Adult Ralphie: They looked at me as if I had lobsters 
crawling out of my ears. I could tell I was in imminent 
danger of overplaying my hand.
                           - A Christmas Story
Happy Holidays!



From bray.262 at osu.edu  Wed Dec 12 12:40:38 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:40:38 EST5EDT
Subject: Liquid Lunches
Message-ID: <15042D35D30@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

Four martini lunch kinda day, eh?  Not good.

When I used to work for a drilling company, there were 4 
secretaries (including myself).  Our four bosses and the 
CEO took us all out for Secretaries Day to this wonderful 
restaurant where they went all the time.  Our bosses and 
the CEO were all drinkers so they ordered each of us a 
glass of wine.  Well, one glass led to two....to 
three....to four....by the time lunch was over, we were all 
pretty annihilated.

When we got back to the office, Becky had the out-of-hand 
giggles that turned into a bawling session that lasted for 
almost an hour, Alma was rather aggressive (she was 83 
years old and usually very quiet but that afternoon she was 
telling everyone where to go and how to get there), and 
Betty and I fell asleep at our desks!

Needless to say, they never took us out for a liquid lunch 
again.  We got roses and gift certificates from then on.

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

Adult Ralphie: Meanwhile, I struggled for exactly the 
right BB gun hint. It had to be firm, but subtle.

Young Ralphie: Flick says he saw some grizzly bears 
near Polaski's candy store!

Adult Ralphie: They looked at me as if I had lobsters 
crawling out of my ears. I could tell I was in imminent 
danger of overplaying my hand.
                           - A Christmas Story
Happy Holidays!



From absinthe at mad.scientist.com  Wed Dec 12 19:58:10 2001
From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milztoday)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:58:10 -0000
Subject: Not the elimination of Aslan....
In-Reply-To: <1501ABC166F@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9v8csi+103b8@eGroups.com>

Ahhh...I see. Yes, I have pictured Aslan as this kind, but fierce, 
magnificient creature, too. 

Liquid lunches: never had one. I can't stomach cocktails or wine until 
the evening and the only beer I like is Guinness Extra Stout. Even 
then I usually don't have more than one glass of wine or one 
cocktail. Frankly I really don't know why either because I'm one of 
those people who can metabolize alcohol quickly.

Milz (happily sipping a big mug of tea)




From shine090 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 12 19:53:34 2001
From: shine090 at yahoo.com (shine090)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:53:34 -0000
Subject: HP and LOTR books
Message-ID: <9v8cju+2g0k@eGroups.com>

Hi! This is my first post and I hope it's well-recieved. I'm 
looking forward to your responses.


I have noticed tht despite the large differences in Lord of the 
Rings and HP they seem to remind me of one another. Tolkien created 
an in depth world,but Rowling has written a great story. I especially 
see a similarity between Dumbledore and Gandalf. Do you think 
Rowling 'borrowed' some ideas from Tolkien? If so what are they? 
Also, which book/series do you prefer?

Although I loved HP I have to say that LOTR is my all time 
favorite. I believe that LOTR has more depth than HP. Although that 
may not be fair to say because Rowling is not trying to create a 
whole world, she is simply telling an amazing story!

-Shine090






From golden_faile at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 13 03:52:06 2001
From: golden_faile at yahoo.com (golden faile)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:52:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Narnia (was Re: British Literature  Characters)
In-Reply-To: <9v6p99+mong@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20011213035206.97328.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>


> These were pretty good; however, being done bu the
> BBC, while the 
> 1940s British details were perfect, the special
> effects (pre-Red 
> Dwarf) were *HORRIBLE!!* Among them was an Aslan
> that looked like a 
> giant stuffed animal, Talking Beavers that were
> obviously prople in 
> beaver suits, and a Cair Paravel that was just a
> small, old castle 
> that could be seen from the Stone Table (putting the
> Greater Beruna 
> Metropolitan Area far closer to CP than canon)
>    I could live with the kids being modern
> Californians (rumor I 
> heard) as long as Narnia looks like a sovreign
> nation in a parallel 
> universe rather than the back forty of some English
> country estate!
> 
> I was just so excited that anyone did them at all, I
was ready to take what I could get! However, If they
could do justice to HP,and TLOTR then Narnia shouldn't
be too hard should it? I would love to see these
movies on the big screen, but I would rather have the
BBC's version rather than see them ruined.

Laila


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com



From puddlemereunited at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Dec 13 09:43:54 2001
From: puddlemereunited at yahoo.co.uk (puddlemereunited)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:43:54 -0000
Subject: HP and LOTR books
In-Reply-To: <9v8cju+2g0k@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9v9t8q+g1nu@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "shine090" <shine090 at y...> wrote:
>I especially see a similarity between Dumbledore and Gandalf. Do you 
>think Rowling 'borrowed' some ideas from Tolkien? If so what are 
>they? Also, which book/series do you prefer?

In the HP books, J.K. Rowling has used traditions of Magic and the 
occult from both history (Agrippa) and literature (Circe) to create 
the backdrop for her story.  Dumbledore certainly shares many 
characteristics, especially physical ones, with Gandalf of the LOTR, 
and Rowling may have purposefully placed him in this tradition of the 
powerful guiding wizard that can trace itself back to Merlin and 
beyond.  Certainly Gandalf was not the first of this type and I doubt 
Albus Dumbledore will be the last.
The thing that provokes the greatest sense of similarity between the 
two series in my view is their treatment of War as a theme. In LOTR 
the quest of the Fellowship begins with the stirrings of an 
approaching war, and ends with their return as full soldiers to a 
civilization forever changed by that war.  The Harry Potter books 
contain the same sense that a war is brewing just over the horizon.  
Both works follow in a tradition of film, music, and writing that 
comes out of WWII England.  The combination punch of two World Wars in 
under 50 years has had an enormous effect on the work of British 
artists, continuing even through those who were born after the last 
bomb fell.  Parallels to the English experience of WWI and WWII can be 
easily found in both the LOTR and HP and in many cases I suggest this 
is intentional. 
Consider for instance in the HP books the mad blood-based ideology of 
the Voldemort and his supporters, and the Ministry of Magic's refusal 
to take the threat of his return to power seriously, or in LOTR, the 
Hobbits' return home to find their land has undergone 
industrialization while they were fighting to protect its innocence.  
For me, it is the fact that both these series are rooted in English 
history that make them so similar in feel to each other.
As to which is my favorite, I cannot say.  Though they have somethings 
in  common, they are very different books with different meanings
and messages... and the HP series is not yet finished:)

Evelyn




From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Thu Dec 13 13:22:41 2001
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:22:41 -0000
Subject: Walmart
Message-ID: <9vaa31+6n1h@eGroups.com>

OK, have I been off in a zone somewhere, or are these Walmart ads next to the 
posts something new?  Does anyone else find them impossibly intrusive?




From ftah3 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 13 13:45:07 2001
From: ftah3 at yahoo.com (ftah3)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:45:07 -0000
Subject: Walmart
In-Reply-To: <9vaa31+6n1h@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vabd3+2dba@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "joanne0012" <Joanne0012 at a...> wrote:
> OK, have I been off in a zone somewhere, or are these Walmart ads 
next to the 
> posts something new?  Does anyone else find them impossibly 
intrusive?

The large blinkiness gives me a bit of a headache after a while, but 
as that only serves to get me out of here to do legitimate work to 
justify my paycheck, thereby keeping me honest, I don't complain.  ;-)

Mahoney




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Dec 13 15:19:19 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:19:19 -0000
Subject: Walmart
In-Reply-To: <9vabd3+2dba@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vagtn+9r0k@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "ftah3" <ftah3 at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "joanne0012" <Joanne0012 at a...> wrote:
> > OK, have I been off in a zone somewhere, or are these Walmart ads 
> next to the 
> > posts something new?  Does anyone else find them impossibly 
> intrusive?
> 
> The large blinkiness gives me a bit of a headache after a while, 
but 
> as that only serves to get me out of here to do legitimate work to 
> justify my paycheck, thereby keeping me honest, I don't 
complain.  ;-)
> 
> Mahoney

...but for those of us reading this at home, YES, the ads are driving 
me nuts!  I'm one of those people who's easily distracted (read:  
can't walk and chew gum at the same time), and the flashing of the 
ads is making it hard for me to read the posts.  And anyway I'm 
hundreds of miles from the nearest Wal-mart, as they've only just 
opened in Britain.  Of course I'll be boycotting them now, as these 
ads are seriously getting up my backside.  Can't Yahoo just stick 
them on the top of the post, rather than alongside?

GRRR!!

Mary Ann
(*seriously* P.O.'d at the moment!)




From gypsycaine at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 13 15:26:17 2001
From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:26:17 -0500
Subject: A request for help and healing
Message-ID: <00b301c183ea$84d39810$7a016d40@Dee>

A good friend of mine, Stephanie, is having a big problem. She's a young mother of a boy about Ian's age, and if you happen to look in this folder (http://photos.yahoo.com/gypsycaine ) you'll see her pictures, as well as her SO and son. Ian and Stephen are pretty good friends, too.  Look for Parade Pics. Stephanie's the one who's about a size 4, tall, darker haired in pic #6. Her son is the blonde cutie in 7. 

Here's a copy of her post that she made to our group, and an additional email that I received after asking if I could pass her request along.

************************************
Hello Alderfolk, and Blessed be
 Some of you may be aware of the fact that recently I have been plagued with severe migraines. After suffering for seven days of the same headache, I was dragged to the hospital. 
 They found a small tumor, the size of a nickel, at the base of my brain. They think this is the reason for my headaches. All they know about the tumor is the size and position. {If it gets any larger, it will press down on nerves and I will loose use of my extremities and my sight. 
 I am asking that all of you.. Pagan and Christian alike. To help me kick this thing. Faith, Hope, and Prayer are the best medicines. I feel close to you all... like you are a second family. I just hope that you can help me raise the necessary positive energies to beat this thing and avoid any kind of painful act. {i.e. surgery or nasty tasting pills lol 
 I thank you all in advance. 
Love and Light,
~Steph Marie


______________________________~*~____________________________
The Earth is our mother, whatever befalls the Earth, befalls the children of the Earth. This we know. The Earth does not belong to us; we belong to the Earth. All things are connected like the blood which unites one family. We did not weave the web of life; we are merely strands in it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves."
 ~Chief Seattle, 1854

*********************************
Permission Granted... The more that can be given.. the more prayers said and candles lit.. the better. 
Stephen doesn't really understand all that's going on.. And I think it is better that way.

Love and Light,
Steph Marie
*********************************

Please, pass this around our circle of folks. I have faith that together we can create healing for her!

Dee

Blessed are the pessimists, for they make backups. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From cindysphynx at home.com  Thu Dec 13 16:29:50 2001
From: cindysphynx at home.com (cindysphynx)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:29:50 -0000
Subject: Walmart
In-Reply-To: <9vagtn+9r0k@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9val1u+38je@eGroups.com>

Mary Ann wrote:

>Of course I'll be boycotting them now, as these 
> ads are seriously getting up my backside.  Can't Yahoo just stick 
> them on the top of the post, rather than alongside?
> 
> GRRR!!

Yes, they're dreadful aren't they?  

Sometimes I don't understand advertisers at all.  Why would you want 
to advertise in a way to vex and annoy your potential customers?  Do 
these ads really contain a subtle subliminal message or something?  
Well, it's not going to work on me, that's for sure.

Cindy (who can't resist the sudden urge to buy a "Monsters Inc." doll)




From absinthe at mad.scientist.com  Thu Dec 13 18:01:12 2001
From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milztoday)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:01:12 -0000
Subject: De-activating Annoying Ad (was Re: Walmart)
In-Reply-To: <9val1u+38je@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vaqd8+87p4@eGroups.com>

Okay, I've done a couple of experiments. You can stop the animation. 
Put your mouse directly over the ad. Right click. In the drop-down 
menu click "play" or "looping" to de-select that action. That will 
freeze the animation. 

The downside is that you'll have to do that everytime you open a new 
message.

Milz. 






From cindysphynx at home.com  Thu Dec 13 18:06:45 2001
From: cindysphynx at home.com (cindysphynx)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:06:45 -0000
Subject: De-activating Annoying Ad (was Re: Walmart)
In-Reply-To: <9vaqd8+87p4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vaqnl+2tar@eGroups.com>

Milz wrote:

> Okay, I've done a couple of experiments. You can stop the 
animation. 
> Put your mouse directly over the ad. Right click. In the drop-down 
> menu click "play" or "looping" to de-select that action. That will 
> freeze the animation. 
> 
> The downside is that you'll have to do that everytime you open a 
new 
> message.
> 


Thanks, Milz. I tried it, and it works.  A warning, though:  If you 
accidently click the ad again after freezing the animation, you are 
transported immediately to the Wonderful World of Walmart.  I 
couldn't get out of there fast enough!

Cindy




From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com  Thu Dec 13 19:18:39 2001
From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:18:39 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Wal(de)mart
References: <9val1u+38je@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <003201c1840a$f8dae900$e500a8c0@shasta>

Cindy pondered,

> Yes, they're dreadful aren't they?

Good grief!

All this time we've been gabbling about the ancestry of the word Voldemort,
only to realize that it's the word's descendents we should have been
considering. Behold, Sam Walton, once the richest man in the world, now
presumed dead, speaks through Yahoo:

I am Lord Waldemart!

He seems to be making a pretty effective comeback, too.

Baaaaaa!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, who notes that this also has significant
implication for the ancestor/descendent problem in CoS ... )
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been
bravery...."




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Thu Dec 13 14:28:36 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:28:36 EST5EDT
Subject: love my boss
Message-ID: <16A109472AB@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

I just got my Christmas gift from my boss.  She got me a 
gift certificate to the place I like to buy my music and 
such (Media Play...yay!) and the 2002 Harry Potter Desk 
Calendar.

The captions are hokie (and a couple of them are wrong) but 
the pictures are great.  Some pictures are actually from 
scenes that didn't make the final cut of the movie.

So anyway....yay!  It's starting out to be a great Harry 
Christmas for me.  :-)

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

Adult Ralphie: Meanwhile, I struggled for exactly the 
right BB gun hint. It had to be firm, but subtle.

Young Ralphie: Flick says he saw some grizzly bears 
near Polaski's candy store!

Adult Ralphie: They looked at me as if I had lobsters 
crawling out of my ears. I could tell I was in imminent 
danger of overplaying my hand.
                           - A Christmas Story
Happy Holidays!



From absinthe at mad.scientist.com  Thu Dec 13 19:36:40 2001
From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milztoday)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:36:40 -0000
Subject: A Christmas Story (was Re: love my boss)
In-Reply-To: <16A109472AB@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9vb008+vdhq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> 
> Adult Ralphie: Meanwhile, I struggled for exactly the 
> right BB gun hint. It had to be firm, but subtle.
> 
> Young Ralphie: Flick says he saw some grizzly bears 
> near Polaski's candy store!
> 
> Adult Ralphie: They looked at me as if I had lobsters 
> crawling out of my ears. I could tell I was in imminent 
> danger of overplaying my hand.
>                            - A Christmas Story
> Happy Holidays!

That movie is one of my favorite Christmas movies ever! It's 
hilarious and not too cutesy. Too bad they don't show it on network 
tv. 

Milz.




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 13 19:39:17 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:39:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] love my boss
In-Reply-To: <16A109472AB@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <20011213193917.12948.qmail@web13705.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Rachel Bray <bray.262 at osu.edu> wrote:
> So anyway....yay!  It's starting out to be a great
> Harry 
> Christmas for me.  :-)
Looks like your off on a great Harry Potter High Note!
Enjoy, you were reward with great goodies from your
boss! Mark March 20th, that's my Birthday! 

Have fun picking out the rest of your goodies!

Wanda theWitch of Revere,Massachusetts and Her Very
Merry Band of Muggles 100%

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com



From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 13 19:58:05 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:58:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: That "racist" Harry Potter
Message-ID: <20011213195805.77570.qmail@web13702.mail.yahoo.com>

As long as there are closed minded people, there will
always be someone or lots of those people, who will
hate something that just doesn't go along with their
way of thinking! Deep down, their probably just
jealous they didn't come up with something to make
them rich! Also, if they did, how would they feel if
they were bombarded with hate related articles and all
that goes with it! Not easy being on the other side of
it! They can do what they like, and I'll just keep
reading all of my Harry Potter books and all my JRR
Tolkien books and love every minute of it! My boys
will follow in my footsteps and love all of it too!
Let the world of all those racist thinkers enjoy their
boring lives! We have our imagination and all the
fantasy realms to enjoy!

Wanda the Non-Racist Witch of Revere, Massachusetts
and Her Very Merry Band of NON-Racist Muggles 100$

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com



From bray.262 at osu.edu  Thu Dec 13 15:02:41 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:02:41 EST5EDT
Subject: Waldemart!
Message-ID: <16AA1764C10@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

HAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!

The people on this list never fail to crack me up!

You witty little goat, you....thanks for the laugh.  
That'll have me giggling for years now every time I walk 
into Walmart.


Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

Adult Ralphie: Meanwhile, I struggled for exactly the 
right BB gun hint. It had to be firm, but subtle.

Young Ralphie: Flick says he saw some grizzly bears 
near Polaski's candy store!

Adult Ralphie: They looked at me as if I had lobsters 
crawling out of my ears. I could tell I was in imminent 
danger of overplaying my hand.
                           - A Christmas Story
Happy Holidays!



From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 13 20:14:13 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:14:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: : [HPFGU-OTChatter] Waldemart! 
Message-ID: <20011213201413.83825.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com>

I agree with Rachel, I will never look at Waldmart the
same way again! Thank you Mr. Mike aka our favorite
goat man! We are giigling in Revere, Massachusetts
because there is a Waldmart in Lynn! All those
commercial ads will be looked upon with laughter
waiting for the next generation of evil doers all over
the USA! Harry Potter we need you in America to help
us out of this pickle dish of sorts! LOL :D

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Very
Merry Band of Muggles 100%

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com



From foxmoth at qnet.com  Thu Dec 13 20:55:46 2001
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:55:46 -0000
Subject: Hermione/Crouch was hate shipping from main list
Message-ID: <9vb4ki+q34t@eGroups.com>

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "cindysphynx" <cindysphynx at h...> 
wrote:
scroll down if you read this on the main list:
> Penny wrote:
> 
> >Here are 2 
> > things you can do if you don't like the SHIPping discussions:
> > 
> 
> I think there is a third thing a non- or anti-shipper can do.  If you 
> can't beat 'em, join 'em!  
> 
> Therefore, I have decided to defect to the shippers and hereby 
> propose my own theory about who Hermione will wind up with 
*when she 
> is of legal age*:
> 
> ::drumroll::
> 
> Mad-Eye Moody!
> 
> It is *so* obvious, once you think of it.  The evidence:
> 
> 1.  When Hermione first sees Moody, she is repulsed:  "What 
happened 
> to him? . . . What happened to his *face*?" she says.  
Meanwhile, 
> Moody is "totally indifferent" to his lukewarm welcome in the 
Great 
> Hall.  That is always what happens in a good romance:  shock, 
> followed by an irresistible impulse to get to know the other 
person 
> better, which of course is not immediately shared.
> 
> 2. The man impresses the woman with emasculating her 
enemy:  Moody 
> turns Draco into a ferret.  How can Hermione fail to notice 
Moody now?
> 
> 3.  Moody demonstrates his power:  He overpowers, tortures 
and kills 
> spiders right in front of Hermione.  Hermione starts to 
appreciate 
> the "bad boy" side of Moody.  He only stops torturing the spider 
when 
> Hermione tells him to stop, showing how she can bend him to 
her will.
> 
> 4.  Romantic tension:  Hermione objects to having students 
placed 
> under the Imperius Curse.  Moody shows her the door.  She 
> submits:  "Hermione went very pink and muttered something 
about not 
> wanting to leave."  Tell me her knees weren't weak as she 
sank back 
> into her seat.
> 
> 5.   Moody finally falls for Hermione:  "Moody's magical eye 
quivered 
> as it rested on Hermione.  'You're another one who might think 
about 
> a career as an Auror,' he told her.  'Mind works the right way, 
> Granger.'  Hermione flushed pink with pleasure."  Roll the 
credits!
> 
> It all fits.  Moody is missing a number of teeth, and Hermione's 
> parents are dentists.  It is simply meant to be.
>

6. Sequel: Hermione is shocked to learn her true love's 
dangerous secret: he's really Barty Crouch Jr.

7. Hermione embarks on a long and dangerous quest to restore 
her true love Barty Crouch Jr.'s soul and incidently wean him 
from his allegiance to Voldemort.

Love it
Pippin, now a Hermione/BartyJr shipper




From cindysphynx at home.com  Thu Dec 13 22:03:04 2001
From: cindysphynx at home.com (cindysphynx)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:03:04 -0000
Subject: Hermione/Crouch was hate shipping from main list
In-Reply-To: <9vb4ki+q34t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vb8io+j19g@eGroups.com>

Pippin wrote:


> 6. Sequel: Hermione is shocked to learn her true love's 
> dangerous secret: he's really Barty Crouch Jr.
> 
> 7. Hermione embarks on a long and dangerous quest to restore 
> her true love Barty Crouch Jr.'s soul and incidently wean him 
> from his allegiance to Voldemort.
> 

I see that I have a lot to learn about Shipping.  I also forgot to 
mention that Hermione's quest to restore Crouch's soul fits with 
Great Romances of our Time.  The woman must, simply must, attempt to 
change her man.  

Cindy 




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 13 22:21:22 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:21:22 -0000
Subject: Hermione and Barty, a match made in heaven; and Waldemart redux
In-Reply-To: <9vb8io+j19g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vb9l2+fj7j@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "cindysphynx" <cindysphynx at h...> wrote:
> Pippin wrote:
> > 6. Sequel: Hermione is shocked to learn her true love's 
> > dangerous secret: he's really Barty Crouch Jr.
> > 7. Hermione embarks on a long and dangerous quest to restore 
> > her true love Barty Crouch Jr.'s soul and incidently wean him 
> > from his allegiance to Voldemort.
> 
> I see that I have a lot to learn about Shipping.  I also forgot to 
> mention that Hermione's quest to restore Crouch's soul fits with 
> Great Romances of our Time.  The woman must, simply must, attempt 
> to change her man.  

Enough, enough!  You two now officially have me laughing too hard to 
be a functioning human being!

Maybe I can use that Hermione/Barty Jr. thing in my AU.....Nah.  
Just messing with people's heads again...

Oh, and I love the Waldemart thing, Mike.  No one has to convince me 
there's basic evil at the core of THAT company...

--Barb

Get Psyched Out!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP_Psych
http://schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb




From pkerr06 at attglobal.net  Fri Dec 14 03:37:37 2001
From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (bluesox4113)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 03:37:37 -0000
Subject: Hermione/Crouch was hate shipping from main list
In-Reply-To: <9vb4ki+q34t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vbs61+2v9f@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> wrote:
> 
> > Therefore, I have decided to defect to the shippers and hereby 
> > propose my own theory about who Hermione will wind up with 
> *when she 
> > is of legal age*:
> > 
> > ::drumroll::
> > 
> > Mad-Eye Moody!
> > 
> > It is *so* obvious, once you think of it.  The evidence:
<snip>
> 
> 6. Sequel: Hermione is shocked to learn her true love's 
> dangerous secret: he's really Barty Crouch Jr.
> 
> 7. Hermione embarks on a long and dangerous quest to restore 
> her true love Barty Crouch Jr.'s soul and incidently wean him 
> from his allegiance to Voldemort.
> 
> Love it
> Pippin, now a Hermione/BartyJr shipper

Yeah.  Too bad the Dementor got to kiss him first.  Not much for 
Hermione to love once the Dementor was through with him, either.  
Those Dementors are MURDER on romance.

Peg




From bookraptor11 at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 14 05:48:12 2001
From: bookraptor11 at yahoo.com (bookraptor11)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 05:48:12 -0000
Subject: Another Strange Ship, for those who don't like them
Message-ID: <9vc3qs+g04a@eGroups.com>

All this talk about Hermione/Moody/Crouch Jr. has given me the 
courage to reveal my own favorite ship: Voldemort and Lily!

After all, why would he bother to say "Stand aside, you silly girl."  
This is a dark wizard who loves to kill, the more unforgivable the 
curse, the better.  No, I think he'd been harboring an infatuation 
since a chance glimpse a few years before.  Voldemort would be in his 
late 50's early 60's around that time, approaching middle age in 
wizard years.  A very dangerous age for insane dark wizards seeking 
immortality. Younger woman/older maniac, doomed from the start. In 
his twisted way, he figured if he eliminated all the 
other men in her life, he'd have a chance. She rejected him anyway, 
he killed her in a jealous rage and then went all to pieces. It 
wasn't Harry, 'twas beauty (nearly) killed the beast. His hatred of 
Harry and attempts to kill him still work in this context, since it's 
similar to the reason Snape/Lily shippers explain much of Snape's 
hatred of Harry.

This interpretation also gives additional strength to the Snape/Lily 
shippers. Imagine Snape's horror when he realizes all those months of 
Voldemort pestering him for grooming tips and advice on how to pick 
up girls was to try to win Lily! He was probably at Hogwarts within 
the hour.

Donna, meaning no offense to Snape/Lily shippers, truly.




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri Dec 14 14:21:32 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:21:32 -0000
Subject: Walmart
In-Reply-To: <9vaqnl+2tar@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vd1tc+vij7@eGroups.com>

Cindy wrote:

> Thanks, Milz. I tried it, and it works.  A warning, though:  If you 
> accidently click the ad again after freezing the animation, you are 
> transported immediately to the Wonderful World of Walmart.  I 
> couldn't get out of there fast enough!

And worse still, no doubt a web counter recorded your hit on the 
site, and half-a-dozen Wal-Mart executives said 'Yes! Our Yahoo ad 
campaign is working! We must make our ads bigger, brighter, and 
flashier!'.

David




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri Dec 14 14:43:11 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:43:11 -0000
Subject: Hermione/Crouch/Winky
In-Reply-To: <9vb4ki+q34t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vd35v+gj8m@eGroups.com>

Pippin wrote:
> Cindy wrote:
> > I propose my own theory about who Hermione will wind up with 
> > *when she is of legal age*:
> > 
> > Mad-Eye Moody!

> 6. Sequel: Hermione is shocked to learn her true love's 
> dangerous secret: he's really Barty Crouch Jr.

Thus reducing the age gap at a stroke.

> 7. Hermione embarks on a long and dangerous quest to restore 
> her true love Barty Crouch Jr.'s soul 
> 
...which involves her in the supreme sacrifice of kissing the 
Dementor to get him back.  Barty thanks Hermione as, inside the 
Dementor, he had despaired of ever getting back with Winky, who is at 
last able to explain the true story of her grief.

In a fit of pique, Hermione...

But that's another story, for the next person to continue.

David




From nlpnt at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 14 17:15:12 2001
From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:15:12 -0000
Subject: Walmart
In-Reply-To: <9vd1tc+vij7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vdc30+fbk6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "davewitley" <dfrankiswork at n...> wrote:
> Cindy wrote:
> 
> > Thanks, Milz. I tried it, and it works.  A warning, though:  If 
you 
> > accidently click the ad again after freezing the animation, you 
are 
> > transported immediately to the Wonderful World of Walmart.  I 
> > couldn't get out of there fast enough!
> 
> And worse still, no doubt a web counter recorded your hit on the 
> site, and half-a-dozen Wal-Mart executives said 'Yes! Our Yahoo ad 
> campaign is working! We must make our ads bigger, brighter, and 
> flashier!'.
> 
> David


Actually, if you DON'T, they'll say "Let's try making the ads more 
noticeable!" Seriously, though, Wally World doesn't need to advertise 
at all! My aunt works there, in Electronics, and all they need to do 
is somehow convert their shoplifters into customers!

-Noel,
remembering what a huge fracas there was around here (Vermont) a few 
years back when Mall-Wart first moved in (we got them to actually 
renovate a couple of existing buildings instead of paving cow 
pastures!) 




From cindysphynx at home.com  Fri Dec 14 17:33:00 2001
From: cindysphynx at home.com (cindysphynx)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:33:00 -0000
Subject: Walmart
In-Reply-To: <9vdc30+fbk6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vdd4c+fhsb@eGroups.com>

Noel wrote:

 
>Seriously, though, Wally World doesn't need to advertise 
> at all! My aunt works there, in Electronics, and all they need to 
do 
> is somehow convert their shoplifters into customers!
> 

I seriously doubt the Walmart shoplifters can challenge the K-mart 
shoplifters.  I worked at K-mart in my youth, and the stories I could 
tell!  The champion shoplifter was the woman who shoplifted an 
unboxed 13" TV under her coat.  She got caught, so maybe she doesn't 
win the trophy after all.

Cindy




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Fri Dec 14 18:23:19 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:23:19 -0000
Subject: Hermione/Crouch/Winky/etc.
In-Reply-To: <9vd35v+gj8m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vdg2n+gonb@eGroups.com>

Pippin wrote?:

> > 7. Hermione embarks on a long and dangerous quest to restore 
> > her true love Barty Crouch Jr.'s soul 

David continued:
 
> ...which involves her in the supreme sacrifice of kissing the 
> Dementor to get him back.  Barty thanks Hermione as, inside the 
> Dementor, he had despaired of ever getting back with Winky, who is 
at 
> last able to explain the true story of her grief.
> 
> In a fit of pique, Hermione...

...runs off with the Dementor, having been knocked to her knees by 
the passion of its kiss.  Little does she know that her revenge upon 
faithless love Barty has also wounded the heart of one who has loved 
her silently from afar for lo these many months...

Pigwidgeon!

Despairing that Hermione will ever see him as more than an 
occasionally useful sentient projectile, he takes a page from his 
love's book and founds an organization for sufferers of interspecies 
affection.

But at the very first meeting, something happens that surprises 
everyone...


(How come I never tried my hand at fanfic before?  It's fun and 
easy!  <eg>)

Amy




From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Fri Dec 14 18:26:14 2001
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:26:14 -0000
Subject: Walmart/shoplifting
In-Reply-To: <9vdd4c+fhsb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vdg86+r4d0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "cindysphynx" <cindysphynx at h...> wrote:
>  I worked at K-mart in my youth, and the stories I could 
> tell!  The champion shoplifter was the woman who shoplifted an 
> unboxed 13" TV under her coat.  She got caught, so maybe she doesn't 
> win the trophy after all.

Nope, the trophy goes to her colleague who slipped out with the 21-inch TV 
while all the security people were distracted by the woman with the 13-inch 
TV.  

Personally,  I'd give the trophy to the guy at a local mall,  who wheeled out an 
entire rack of chained-up leather coats into a waiting van and took off before 
anybody could do a thing!

When I worked in a jewelry store, we were told that if a customer ever made a 
big scene, nobody but the manager and whoever was waiting on the customer 
should pay any attention, and the rest of us should go on high-alert keeping an 
eye on everyone else who was in the store.

Every time I'm in a store with those doorway alarms, I hear the alarm go off 
and nobody in the stores pays any attention; the customer who set it off 
almost always just keeps going.  Is this alarm ignored because of a high rate 
of false alarms, or because the store's understaffed, or what?!




From Schlobin at aol.com  Fri Dec 14 18:36:08 2001
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:36:08 -0000
Subject: charity during the holidays
Message-ID: <9vdgqo+r4me@eGroups.com>

Hey, Pottermaniacs....

Some of you know that I work for a battered women's shelter.
It's called SAFE House and it's located in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

Each holiday season we collect donations and then give them away to 
about 400 people....120 adults and 380 kids...those we've worked
with and who are dealing with violence at home.

I noticed that we only have 1 copy of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's 
Stone, and I thought hmmmm..

If anyone wants to feel good for the holidays, you might consider 
donating one of the books to us.

We're a 501-c-3 organization, tax identification number 38-2121751, 
and a gift is tax deductible if you pay taxes in the U.S.

I feel really good watching kids get books for Christmas, Chanukkah, 
Yule, Kwanzaa, and we save some gifts for Tet.

If you'd like to, you can do it through http://amazon.com by clicking 
on wish list, then go to DVPSH at aol.com, and you can buy online and 
ship 'em to us.

Thanks for thinking about it!

Susan McGee
Executive Director
Domestic Violence Project, Inc./SAFE House
4100 Clark Road, Ann Arbor, MI 48105-9505 USA
734-973-0242 x203 (voice)
734-973-7817 (fax)
DVPSH at aol.com (email)
http://comnet.org/dvp




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Dec 14 20:13:45 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:13:45 -0000
Subject: Hedwig problems (aka rampid stupidity)
Message-ID: <9vdmhp+q779@eGroups.com>

This article is in today's Weston and Somerset Mercury, the local 
paper for my town of Weston-super-Mare in southwest England.  If I 
live to be 100, homo sapiens' basic stupidity will never cease to 
amaze me.

"Harry starts owl craze" by Christine Lewis

Parents in Somerset are snapping up owls as Christmas presents for 
their children as Harry Potter mania grows.

Pet shops and bird breeders are being inundated with orders for owls 
for youngsters, who want a pet just like their movie hero.

But animal lovers urges parents this week:  "Do not give your child 
an owl for Christmas"

They fear that children could be harmed by a wild owl or will quickly 
tire of a tame bird and release it into the wild, where it will soon 
die.

[...]

Owl experts say the birds can be dangerous with their sharp talons 
and beaks.  They live for up to 50 years, need cleaning, exercising 
every day and a diet of raw chicks, mice or rats.

Mercury wildlife expert Gary Sealey said:  "I've had 50 calls from 
people wanting an owl in the past week and I've told people not to 
get one.

"They are beautiful and charming and probably the most adorable of 
all birds, but they need constant attention.

"They should never be kept in a cage like they are in the film.  They 
should always be kept in an aviary."

[...]

"People interested in owls should support organisations trying to 
preserve them, rather than aim to keep them as pets", said Mr. 
[Chris] Sperring [of the Hawk and Owl Trust].

Falconer Chris Lock...said:  "There are unscrupulous breeders who 
will be prepared to sell an owl to anybody."

Pauline Kidner, of Secret World animal rescue centre...said: "...you 
can buy a pair of barn owls for ?40 and there is nothing to stop 
people keeping them in a rabbit hutch, which is not suitable".

                              *****

For our non-British friends who may not be aware of this point, barn 
owls numbers are falling sharply as their natural habitat 
disappears.  There are several organizations trying to increase barn 
owl numbers both through preserving natural habitats and through 
breeding programs.  But even without these facts, what kind of 
parents in their right minds would blindly give in to demands for a 
pet owl from their very own ickle Duddikins?  The mind boggles...

Mary Ann
(who has a really groovy barn owl cross stitch kit, and is content 
with just having that)




From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com  Fri Dec 14 20:14:12 2001
From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:14:12 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Hermione/Crouch/Winky/etc.
References: <9vdg2n+gonb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <003a01c184db$e5c43570$e500a8c0@shasta>

Cindy started, then Pippin wrote:

7. Hermione embarks on a long and dangerous quest to restore
her true love Barty Crouch Jr.'s soul

David continued:

...which involves her in the supreme sacrifice of kissing the
Dementor to get him back.  Barty thanks Hermione as, inside the
Dementor, he had despaired of ever getting back with Winky, who is
at last able to explain the true story of her grief.

In a fit of pique, Hermione...

[Amy added]

 ...runs off with the Dementor, having been knocked to her knees by
the passion of its kiss.  Little does she know that her revenge upon
faithless love Barty has also wounded the heart of one who has loved
her silently from afar for lo these many months...

Pigwidgeon!

Despairing that Hermione will ever see him as more than an
occasionally useful sentient projectile, he takes a page from his
love's book and founds an organization for sufferers of interspecies
affection.

But at the very first meeting ...

... Things got off to a horrible start.

There was a lonely Ford Anglia parked outside - no one had expected any
beings who couldn't fit into the cozy den at the alpine lodge. A hyperactive
goat ate all the crackers, half the gardenias and was finally ejected for
nibbling on what turned out to be a pot of crotchety, middle-aged Mandrakes
trying to get friendly with a colony of free-thinking flobberworms. Someone
told a sensitive troll exactly where he could do with his club, and nobody
wanted to hug the Dementer.

But things really got tense when Voldemort and Nagini arrived, shocked and
teary-eyed, after the other Death Eaters had told poor Voldy to keep his
snake in its cage.

If Hermione hadn't ...

Baaaaaa!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray)
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been
bravery...."




From ftah3 at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 14 20:25:22 2001
From: ftah3 at yahoo.com (ftah3)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:25:22 -0000
Subject: Cross-stitch (was: Hedwig problems (aka rampid stupidity))
In-Reply-To: <9vdmhp+q779@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vdn7i+4qhg@eGroups.com>

> Mary Ann
> (who has a really groovy barn owl cross stitch kit, and is content 
> with just having that)

Oh, say, you know, good idea: anyone know of Potteresque counted 
cross-stitch patterns?  Not that I have enough hours in the day to 
finish even the projects I've started, but I'd be very interested in 
neat HP (or along those lines) patterns, if they exist....

Mahoney
closet cross-stitch geek




From cindysphynx at home.com  Fri Dec 14 20:27:28 2001
From: cindysphynx at home.com (cindysphynx)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:27:28 -0000
Subject: Hermione/Crouch/Winky/etc.
In-Reply-To: <9vdg2n+gonb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vdnbg+fald@eGroups.com>

> Pippin wrote?:
> 
> > > 7. Hermione embarks on a long and dangerous quest to restore 
> > > her true love Barty Crouch Jr.'s soul 
> 
> David continued:
>  
> > ...which involves her in the supreme sacrifice of kissing the 
> > Dementor to get him back.  Barty thanks Hermione as, inside the 
> > Dementor, he had despaired of ever getting back with Winky, who 
is 
> at 
> > last able to explain the true story of her grief.
> > 
> > In a fit of pique, Hermione...
> 

Amy supplied:

> ...runs off with the Dementor, having been knocked to her knees by 
> the passion of its kiss.  Little does she know that her revenge 
upon 
> faithless love Barty has also wounded the heart of one who has 
loved 
> her silently from afar for lo these many months...
> 
> Pigwidgeon!
> 
> Despairing that Hermione will ever see him as more than an 
> occasionally useful sentient projectile, he takes a page from his 
> love's book and founds an organization for sufferers of 
interspecies 
> affection.
> 
> But at the very first meeting, something happens that surprises 
> everyone...
> 


. . . suddenly, Hermione gazed into the distance, fondly remembering 
her first thrilling enounter with Mad-Eye.  A breathless stolen 
moment in Filch's broom closet.  Mad-Eye held her close, his blue eye 
pulsating, undulating, swiveling around to make sure no one was about 
to burst through the door.  

"Oh, Alastor, you're the only man for me now that I am of legal age 
in Britain," she panted.

"Granger," he breathed.  "How I have waited for this day.  My deepest 
wish is to undress you with my eye."

Words failed her.  She reached up and brushed his long mane of 
grizzled, dark gray hair out of his good eye.

There was a faint *pop* and Winky, kicking a mop bucket aside,  
lunged at them. . . . 

****

Cindy (agreeing with Amy that writing fanfic may make a nice hobby)





From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 14 20:33:17 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:33:17 -0000
Subject: Barb's Electronic Alarms Rant (was: Walmart/shoplifting)
In-Reply-To: <9vdg86+r4d0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vdnme+csdr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "joanne0012" <Joanne0012 at a...> wrote:
> Every time I'm in a store with those doorway alarms, I hear the 
> alarm go off and nobody in the stores pays any attention; the 
> customer who set it off almost always just keeps going.  Is this 
> alarm ignored because of a high rate of false alarms, or because 
> the store's understaffed, or what?!

<rant>
I never seem to be able to get a clerk who knows how to properly 
disarm the electronic tags on the merchandise that sets off the 
alarms.  If I buy a video for my kids at the drugstore, every time, 
when I'm leaving, the alarm goes off.  I just keep moving, and no 
one in the store cares; I think the clerks know they'd have to admit 
to their boss they don't know what they're doing.

The only time I make a fuss about it is if I'm in the mall and I'm 
planning to go into more stores.  It used to be that if I was 
leaving and the merchandise for which I'd paid set off the alarm, 
the clerk or manager, knowing I was all paid up, would just wave me 
through and say it didn't matter.  I started objecting to this and I 
now insist that they do whatever is necessary to get the thing 
deactivated because if it isn't, alarms start going off when I'm 
walking INTO subsequent stores!  That's nice, really nice; makes me 
look like I'm letting them know a shoplifter has just entered their 
establishment!  Why can't these managers train their clerks to 
deactivate these devices effectively?
</rant>

--Barb

Check out the revamped HP_Psych home page!  Get Psyched Out!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP_Psych
http://schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb





From cindysphynx at home.com  Fri Dec 14 20:53:43 2001
From: cindysphynx at home.com (cindysphynx)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:53:43 -0000
Subject: Barb's Electronic Alarms Rant (was: Walmart/shoplifting)
In-Reply-To: <9vdnme+csdr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vdosn+is13@eGroups.com>

Barb ranted:

>Why can't these managers train their clerks to 
> deactivate these devices effectively?>

Because they are busy not teaching the employees to make change? :-)

[begin nostalgic mini-rant]

Back in my days as a cashier, you had to know how to make change 
without some machine helping you.  You even had to know how to 
calculate 5% tax in your head, unless you wanted to strain your eyes 
looking it up on a tax table all day.  

These whippersnappers today are completely helpless if the computer 
doesn't tell them exactly the change to give.  Then they put the 
change on top of the bills in my hand, causing the change to fall all 
over the counter.  They just don't train 'em like they used to.

[end nostalgic mini-rant]

Cindy (who has had to drive all the way back to a store to have the 
electronic tag pried from her clothing purchase)






From ftah3 at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 14 21:02:20 2001
From: ftah3 at yahoo.com (ftah3)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:02:20 -0000
Subject: customer service (was: Barb's Electronic Alarms Rant)
In-Reply-To: <9vdosn+is13@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vdpcs+a255@eGroups.com>

In light of the awful customer service rampant everywhere, I thought 
I'd share this rare /good/ experience:

I went through the drive-thru at my local McDonald's during the 
dinner rush the other day, and the woman taking my order (through the 
electronic display):

- asked me how I was

- articulated words clearly, and read back my order so that I could 
understand her

- was cheerful and pleasant

- was patient

- explained briefly what she was doing when she had to take a moment 
to futz with the order input

- said 'thank you' and '*please* drive up to the next window,' 
and 'have a great day'

- and was not vacuous, stoned or otherwise apparently mentally 
impaired, so it all came across as very honest

I scared the poor kid at the pick-up window by asking to speak to the 
manager on duty, just so I could tell him that the gal taking orders 
was wonderful and deserved a very very large raise.  Because, what a 
rare individual!  Made my day!

Mahoney




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Fri Dec 14 21:14:36 2001
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:14:36 -0000
Subject: Hedwig problems (aka rampid stupidity)
In-Reply-To: <9vdmhp+q779@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vdq3s+lku1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "macloudt" <macloudt at y...> wrote:

> "Harry starts owl craze" by Christine Lewis
> 
> Parents in Somerset are snapping up owls as Christmas 
presents for  their children as Harry Potter mania grows.

Owning or selling owls as pets is illegal in the US without a 
wildlife or falconry permit...but that hasn't stopped kids from 
asking. Here's a story about it from the Los Angeles Times.

http://latimes.com/features/lifestyle/la-000095808dec02.story
 
Pippin




From keegan at mcn.org  Fri Dec 14 21:15:19 2001
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:15:19 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Hedwig problems (aka rampid stupidity)
In-Reply-To: <9vdmhp+q779@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20011214125857.00a7b220@mail.mcn.org>

I really wish people had half a brain when it comes to animals.  I was 
lucky enough to be able to do wildlife rehabilitation for three years.  I 
saw a lot of owls in those years.  They are not affectionate creatures that 
nibble on your ear (I always wince when I read how JKR writes 
Hedwig).  Their talons are very sharp and they use them with incredible 
speed.  They also will lunge to bite you with their very strong beaks.  The 
little guys like screech owls are cute but they're also aggressive.  I 
never worked with the snowy that we would display as a non native cool 
critter but I have worked with great horned, barn, screech, burrowing and 
spotted owls and none of them are suitable as pets.  Their dietary needs 
alone should make people pause.  (I don't know how many chicks I've de 
yolked, rats I've cut up and mice and small birds I've fed to owls but the 
smell can be really yucky. )  The museum I worked with has a great horned 
owl that some idiot "rescued" as a chick and who has a horrid degenerative 
disease because they fed her hamburger as her only protein source.   I've 
also seen a red tailed hawk with the same condition due to the same problems.

I forwarded the warning letter on owls as pets to the museum and got a 
"thanks for the heads up" response.  I just hope the poor things get turned 
into the animal shelters instead of being ignored in a cage.  If they 
haven't been screwed up too badly, they can probably be released..

Catherine in California



From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 14 23:20:16 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 23:20:16 -0000
Subject: customer service (was: Barb's Electronic Alarms Rant)
In-Reply-To: <9vdpcs+a255@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ve1fg+qi1k@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "ftah3" <ftah3 at y...> wrote:
> 
> I scared the poor kid at the pick-up window by asking to speak to 
> the manager on duty, just so I could tell him that the gal taking 
> orders was wonderful and deserved a very very large raise.  
> Because, what a rare individual!  Made my day!
> 
> Mahoney

100 house points to you!  Not enough people doing a GREAT job ever 
get acknowledgement.  Of course, it means that person will go into a 
management trainee position and some other person will be taking 
orders at the window...  I just hope the manager listens to what you 
said (and tells the girl about it).

--Barb





From ebonyink at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 15 00:20:24 2001
From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (selah_1977)
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 00:20:24 -0000
Subject: Fanfiction and sex... slash vs. het
Message-ID: <9ve508+1o3i@eGroups.com>

Hello, all--

Al and I were chatting about a topic tonight that I *really* would 
like to know the answer to.

Al writes slash, gen, and het fanfiction; I write het and gen.  We 
both have read and enjoyed fics from all over the fandom.

We were talking about what a mature teen/adult writer can "get away 
with" in a fic without the audience getting squicked.  We both came 
to the conclusion that slash writers can get away with a whole lot 
more than your average het writer.

I quote Al with his permission:  "I think the way straight romance is 
perceived when written explicitly - people take it to be like a 
Barbara Cartland story or a trashy romance because of long term 
association.  Whereas gay romance is more cutting edge and 
contemporary - a la Armistead Maupin et autres."

>From my experience on the fanon side of things, it seems that it's 
okay for slash writers to spice things up and in many cases they are 
encouraged, but het writers get a lot of flack for doing the same.  A 
lot of the het romance subplot writers who are writing good 
fanfiction--Lori, Penny and Carole, and Barb immediately spring to 
mind, and there are plenty of others--have received criticism about 
the steaminess of their m/f couples *despite* the rating.  There is a 
plethora of NC-17 slash in our fandom, but when I asked slash queen 
Rhysenn nearly a year ago if she knew *anyone* who wrote the het 
equivalent, she had to say no.

When het writers include steam, it's trashy romance.  When slash 
writers do it, it's erotica.  As someone who spent far too much time 
during her adolescent years reading trashy romance novels, I *know* 
what is and is not acceptable in that subgenre of pulp fiction... 
there is a line in the Barbara Cartland/Johanna Lindsey/Fern Michaels 
world that you may not cross.  

For the purposes of the discussion, I am NOT including the vast 
masses of "developing" writers who write awful het romance and the 
smaller but no less annoying number who write horrible slash.  I am 
speaking of writers who actually have a plot and have attained a 
reasonable level of fluency in their storytelling skills.

Questions:

1)  Why do you think this double standard exists?  Is it reflective 
of the quality of the writing or the maturity level/personal squicks 
of the audience?

2)  Is there a way to write het fanfiction, R or higher, that escapes 
this stigma?

3)  In your opinion, should there even *be* NC-17 Harry Potter 
fanfiction, slash *or* het?

Just curious... consider this a marketing survey of sorts.  ;-)

Best,

Ebony

(P.S.  I also posted this message on FictionAlley Park's "Scribbulus' 
Ever-Changing Inks" boards... 
http://pub51.ezboard.com/fhpparadisefrm1.showMessage?
topicID=922.topic because as Davy always said in LMM's Anne books "I 
want to know!)

<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< 
Ebony AKA AngieJ
ebonyink at hotmail.com
Come join us in Paradise!  
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP_Paradise
Fanfics of All Shapes, Ships, and Sizes:
http://www.fictionalley.org
********************************** 

"You do not have to be good.
You do not have to walk on your knees for a hundred miles through the 
desert, repenting.
You only have to let the soft animal of your body love what it loves."

--from Mary Oliver's *Wild Geese*







From firefightermichelle at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 15 01:22:55 2001
From: firefightermichelle at yahoo.com (firefightermichelle)
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 01:22:55 -0000
Subject: Owls, Dalmations, and Customer Service
Message-ID: <9ve8lf+fpje@eGroups.com>

The most recent animal craze I can remember over here in the States 
was the rush on Dalmation puppies after 101 Dalmations came out in '96
(?).  Shortly after it came out, I started working at the Disney-MGM 
Studios int he Backstage Pass atraction, which was currently 
featuring ... 101 Dalmations.  I heard all the stories about how 
during the Christmas holidays they had puppies and trainers in the 
lobby of the attraction.  Oh how cute they were ... but oh how the 
trainers passed out the "Why you really don't want one of these 
puppies, even though they are the cutest thing on the planet right 
now" fliers.  People would ignore them, and go and buy a Dalmation 
puppy, only to discover they are the most hyper dogs and tear 
everything up.  Then the pounds and Humane Societies were inundated 
with them.  <sigh>  poor puppies.  poor, stupid humans :)


ANd now, my views on Customer Service. :)

I have been int he customer service industry my entire workign 
career ... ok, so that's 8 years, but hey.  And in that time, I have 
run across some customers that would make you want to bring a gun to 
work, just in case you saw them again.  And I have worked with some 
people that made you homicidal.  Now I am in the Ultimate Customer 
Service job.  Yes, being a firefighter is ALL about customer 
service.  Sure, you get to have all kinds of fun, squirting water, 
cutting up cars ... and occasionally, people thank you for saving 
their lives.  But more often than not, people bitch about how you 
ruined their carpet.  Well, *I* wasn't the moron who left the chicken 
frying on the stove while I ran to the store to get more lard!!   But 
what do you say?  Oh, I'm sorry.  Or you get the person that is drunk 
off their arse and falls down and cracks his head ... yet he yells at 
you when you stick a needle in his arm to replace the fluid he's bled 
out 'cause it hurts.

Seriously, I really do love my job ... it's the moments when a little 
kid coems to the fire station and we let him sit in the drivers seat 
and turn on the lights that makes it all worth it.  Well, that and 
squirting water and cutting up cars :)

Ok, I'm done.  Oh, and when I set the alarm off at Wally World (I 
LOVE Wally World, but will forever laugh when I think of WaldeMart) I 
stop and find the nearest Wally World person.  AM I the only one?

Michelle :) <---who would love to contribute to the Hermione/Barty 
jr/Winky/Moody/Pigwidgeon storyline, but can't cause she has to go 
change her undies cause she peed herself laughing!!! :)




From keegan at mcn.org  Sat Dec 15 01:26:26 2001
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:26:26 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Fanfiction and sex... slash vs. het
In-Reply-To: <9ve508+1o3i@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20011214170546.00aadc60@mail.mcn.org>

OK  I'll bite.  I've only recently started reading the HP fanfics.  I avoid 
the slash stories.  I've stumbled into a few and had to wonder how I was 
that blind to not figure out that it was a slash story until I got to the 
sexual side of the story.  Some of them even had warnings but for a while I 
was browsing through Schnoogle and Sugar Quill sequentially without always 
checking the first page of information...

At 12:20 AM 12/15/01 +0000, Ebony wrote:
>Questions:
>
>1)  Why do you think this double standard exists?  Is it reflective
>of the quality of the writing or the maturity level/personal squicks
>of the audience?

I've read and reread my answer to this question and it really isn't an 
answer; however, I'll leave it as it is because I haven't read any really 
well-written slash that was explicit.

I have a problem with stories that include sex between either adults and 
children or children and children.  I have several friends who were abused 
as children and it doesn't make for a happy, sexual person.  I know that 
there are several writers who carefully put their stories in a time frame 
where the main character is 18 or older but it's my own problem that 
they're still 14 in my own time frame.  So, I skip the story.

I have less problems with characters my own quirked brain perceives as 
"adults".  I haven't run into anything really graphic so far.  Some of it 
has been - dare I say it - sweet and almost goes out of its way to avoid 
any kind of descriptions that might make anyone uncomfortable.  I ran into 
a few Sirius/Remus stories that I guess could be interpreted as slash but 
it was at such a high level that it raised more of a smile than anything 
else.

After an evening of browsing, I finally had to turn to my husband and ask 
him if all teenage boys fell into bed with each other.  After he finished 
laughing, he reminded me that most teenage boys are so self conscious and 
concerned about their image that he really doubted very many did.  Of 
course, he did grown up in redneck land where anything that smacked of 
homosexuality would have ended in being beaten up.

Quite frankly, one of the sexiest HP stories I have read thus far was in 
the Potion Master's Apprentice series.  Nothing that I wouldn't recommend 
to even the most prudish folks I know but a definite brain tease.

>2)  Is there a way to write het fanfiction, R or higher, that escapes
>this stigma?

Where do you draw your lines on what constitutes "R" or "X"?  I'm sure 
there are ways to write very steamy sex scenes.  I guess I don't 
understands why.  Well, I guess I can understand why but where would you 
publish it?

>3)  In your opinion, should there even *be* NC-17 Harry Potter
>fanfiction, slash *or* het?

I need some definition here.  NC-17?  Nudity?  Sex?  Heavy petting?

I'm sure the more educated readers and authors out there will have lots to 
say to your questions.  I just thought I'd respond since I represent what's 
probably a fairly large group of people who are new to this genre.

BTW, if you haven't been reading the wonderful holiday stories that Ebony 
is posting on her HP-Paradise Yahoo site, you're missing some fine stories.

Catherine in California (one of the at least three or four Catherines on 
the list.)

Albion Works
Furniture, Clothing, and Accesories
For the Medievalist!
www.albionworks.net



From pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it  Sat Dec 15 06:16:20 2001
From: pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it (pigwidgeon37)
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 06:16:20 -0000
Subject: Fan fiction, slash/het and general musings about romance (long)
Message-ID: <9veprk+nt18@eGroups.com>

Ebony wrote:

<snip>
>We were talking about what a mature teen/adult writer can "get away 
>with" in a fic without the audience getting squicked.  We both came 
>to the conclusion that slash writers can get away with a whole lot 
>more than your average het writer.

>I quote Al with his permission:  "I think the way straight romance 
is 
>perceived when written explicitly - people take it to be like a 
>Barbara Cartland story or a trashy romance because of long term 
>association.  Whereas gay romance is more cutting edge and 
>contemporary - a la Armistead Maupin et autres."


I think the problem is that het romance is so loaded with clich?s 
because it has a history of roughly 2500 years, whereas slash is 
relatively young. People's ( and here I mean those who read a lot and 
have their own reading history, including both trash and world 
literature) perception is just sharpened by having gone through the 
whole range of possibilities the term "romance" includes.
Then there's the fact that some clich?s simply don't work for slash: 
Take f.ex. the old "Strong man vs. weak woman" pattern: In a 
Sirius/Severus context you wouldn't be tempted to use it (or would 
you???), that means that nausea-inducing images like "he took her 
into his strong arms" or "he silenced her with a kiss" aren't 
possible (what a relief).
And of course, it's always a question of quality, difficult as it may 
be to define it. You gave the examples of Barb and R.J.Anderson, who 
have very different writing styles and also different ratings. Barb's 
sex scenes are more explicit, true, but to describe them, the 
words "clich?" or "trash" or "sappy" are the very last to come to my 
mind. Of course, when Harry and hermione have sex for the first time 
in "HP and the Psychic Serpent", it's steamy, but then sex *is* 
steamy (or at least it should be), there's no way past it. But the 
author doesn't use any worn-out and trampled-on clich?s and that's 
why it comes over as adult, yes, but never as trashy.
Take the love letter Severus writes in "If We Survive": It's 
wonderful, it's romantic, I'd barter my own grandmother to get such a 
love letter. 
But I think that nowadays, many people have a very strange perception 
of everything that falls into the category of "romantic": On the one 
hand, they desperately want it, as much as they can get, but on the 
other, they're so afraid of being regarded as uncool or hopelessly 
immature, that they push it away. 

Same goes (IMHO) for more or less explicit sex scenes: I really don't 
buy that, once people see "SLASH, rated NC-17" written in big, fat 
letters at the beginning of a story, they don't know what expects 
them (I myself being the only exception, for I'm no native speaker 
and simply didn't know what "slash" meant- well, I found out soon 
enough and liked it a lot). If they read it all the same and 
afterwards give the author a good bashing, they're not being honest 
with themselves. They punish the author because they feel guilty of 
having secretly enjoyed what they read.  

Of course, some of the texts are awful, but then they are always good 
for a laugh: yesterday, I skimmed through ffnet and found a fanfic- 
of course I won't give neither author nor title, above all because I 
forgot them- containing the memorable words "the bottle had gone limp 
in his hand". I loved it. ( and it was not a rhetoric figure, that 
was clearly visible from the rest). But the mere existence of badly 
written texts doesn't jeopardize the genre per se, as the existence 
of bad Italian restaurants doesn't mean automatically that all 
Italian restaurants and Italian cuisine are trash: You'll just be a 
little more prudent in your choice of restaurants. You might also 
choose never to visit an Italian restaurant again, but then you'll 
deprive yourself of a lot of pleasure.

Sorry this got so long, hope it's more or less understandable- but 
what can you expect at 6 a.m.?

Susanna/pigwidgeon37





From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 15 13:33:19 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:33:19 -0000
Subject: Fan fiction, slash/het and general musings about romance (long)
In-Reply-To: <9veprk+nt18@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vfjf0+pojp@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "pigwidgeon37" <pigwidgeon37 at y...> 
wrote:
> Ebony wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> >We were talking about what a mature teen/adult writer can "get 
> away with" in a fic without the audience getting squicked.  We 
> both came to the conclusion that slash writers can get away with a 
> whole lot more than your average het writer.
> 
> >I quote Al with his permission:  "I think the way straight 
> romance is perceived when written explicitly - people take it to 
> be like a Barbara Cartland story or a trashy romance because of 
> long term association.  Whereas gay romance is more cutting edge 
> and contemporary - a la Armistead Maupin et autres."

I think that when you're talking about the audience that will read a 
slash fic, you're already talking about a self-selected audience 
that has gotten over one hurdle (same-gender relationships) and 
isn't going to be "squicked" by the characters being in a physically 
intimate situation (in fact, I'm guessing that they went to read the 
fic IN HOPES that the characters would be in this sort of 
situation).  If folks really have a problem with these kind of 
relationships, why are they reading these fics?  Chances are they're 
not, which brings me back to the self-selected group.  When you're 
preaching to the choir you can get away with more than when you're 
broadcasting to the general public.

> You gave the examples of Barb and R.J.Anderson, who have very 
> different writing styles and also different ratings. Barb's sex 
> scenes are more explicit, true, but to describe them, the 
> words "clich?" or "trash" or "sappy" are the very last to come
to 
> my mind. Of course, when Harry and hermione have sex for the first 
> time in "HP and the Psychic Serpent", it's steamy, but then sex 
> *is* steamy (or at least it should be), there's no way past it. 
> But the author doesn't use any worn-out and trampled-on clich?s 
> and that's why it comes over as adult, yes, but never as trashy.

Well, thanks.  It's a very fine line.  I also use very careful 
language; none of it is really anatomically specific.  It's loaded 
with vagueness and euphemism.  I think I've only ever used the 
word "nipple," for instance, to refer to that body part on a male, 
never a female.  And that's the most specific anatomical word I've 
ever used (it wasn't in a sex scene but a snogging scene).  No one's 
going to mistake these scenes for Penthouse letters written in the 
third person.  

I've received mostly positive feedback on these.  For instance:

"Chapter 26 is one long highlight from start to end! That DADA 
lesson - I hope that the lessons in [it] are not directly borne of 
personal grief, for they are written as poignantly as one could care 
them to be - that tender, wonder-filled bedroom scene and those 
reactions with everyone showing their care for Longbottom. And what 
a conclusion to the chapter, too."

Which brings up another thing; it's not the focus of the chapter.  
As the above shows, a lot was going on in the chapter where H & H do 
more than just sleep in a bed for the first time....

On the other hand, while one person called it "tender" and "wonder-
filled" someone on ff.net repeatedly complained, "too much 
information!"  Everyone has different thresholds, I think.  I do 
warn about this content right up front, however, so I'm surprised 
when readers are surprised.  Did they think I was kidding?  As I 
said, what I'm describing may be adult-oriented, but the language 
certainly isn't, and for the euphemisms and vague references to make 
sense you actually have to use your imagination a good bit.  (For 
instance, in one chapter, I mention the buttons on a nightshirt 
being undone; what is revealed when this occurs is never 
specifically stated.  If you want to imagine that the person wears 
body armor under such a garment, you have that freedom.<g>)

> Take the love letter Severus writes in "If We Survive": It's 
> wonderful, it's romantic, I'd barter my own grandmother to get 
> such a love letter. 

I DEFINITELY have to get around to reading this.<g> Gah!  So behind 
in my reading...

> Same goes (IMHO) for more or less explicit sex scenes: I really 
> don't buy that, once people see "SLASH, rated NC-17" written in 
> big, fat letters at the beginning of a story, they don't know what 
> expects them (I myself being the only exception, for I'm no native 
> speaker and simply didn't know what "slash" meant- well, I found 
> out soon enough and liked it a lot). If they read it all the same 
> and afterwards give the author a good bashing, they're not being 
> honest with themselves. They punish the author because they feel 
> guilty of having secretly enjoyed what they read.  

I don't know that you can say that across the board.  I think some 
folks are squicked by the idea of anyone imagining these characters 
in sexual situations PERIOD, let alone same-gender situations.  It 
does make one wonder why they'd read an NC-17 slash fic, feeling as 
they do, but some folks might consider it "investigating."  OTO, I 
think if you're investigating this sort of thing and purporting not 
to like it, you REALLY need to get a life!  If you're reading 
fanfic, it should be because you enjoy it!  This is supposed to be 
fun!

--Barb


  




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Sat Dec 15 17:45:34 2001
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 17:45:34 -0000
Subject: Fanfiction and sex... slash vs. het
In-Reply-To: <9ve508+1o3i@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vg27u+h02u@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "selah_1977" <ebonyink at h...> 
wspring to 
>
> When het writers include steam, it's trashy romance.  When 
slash  writers do it, it's erotica.  
s:
> 
> 1)  Why do you think this double standard exists?  Is it reflective 
> of the quality of the writing or the maturity level/personal 
squicks of the audience?

  As far as I know there is very little commercial slash. 
Commercial fiction with gay protagonists is generally aimed at  
gay males, whereas I believe male/male slash fanfiction is read 
largely by  straight females (my information comes from Textual 
Poachers, is it correct?) 
     I think the trashiness label carries over from the commercial 
product. With slash the work isn't tainted by mass-marketing and 
commerce, so it can more easily claim to be art. Hence the 
erotica label.
  The squick factor has to do with how much  the reader identifies 
with the characters. IMO, erotic situations can be rougher or 
seedier or more casual  in slash because the female reader is 
distanced from  the male characters and feels less vulnerable. 
The level of explicitness can be raised because only male 
bodies are described, so the female reader doesn't have the 
feeling that her own body is  exposed.
 OTOH, slash can be even more gushingly romantic than het 
stories. Let's face it, real guys, straight or not,  are generally 
eager to score. Since romantic fiction is more about longing than 
it is about fulfillment, slash in which the characters are  uncertain 
about their orientation or afraid to reveal it  gives the author 
another excuse to keep the characters out of physical contact 
and exchanging longing glances. 
> 
> 2)  Is there a way to write het fanfiction, R or higher, that 
escapes  this stigma?
Find a publisher with the courage to print commercial slash and 
at least everyone will be in the same boat? <g> But then, most 
slash deals with characters who aren't gay in the original works, 
and it's hard to see how the effect of that (oh, I'm not gay, I just 
like to delete on Draco's expletive) could be carried over into 
original fiction.  In fan fiction the characters can carry on in this 
unresolved way, whereas in real life or an independent fictional 
universe they would either have to break up or start picking out 
china.
> 3)  In your opinion, should there even *be* NC-17 Harry Potter 
> fanfiction, slash *or* het?
    People are going to write it.   And people are going to read it, 
because it validates their feelings. (ooh, I'm not the only one 
who's hot for Pigwidgeon, phew!) As an artist and critic, my  
feeling is that   a story should be set in a particular universe 
because it could only happen in that universe.  The reactions of 
each character should be unique to that character. Since the 
mechanics of arousal are pretty much the same for everybody, 
(otherwise there couldn't be  mass-market erotica/porn/romance 
in the first place) the more explicit the writing becomes, the less 
the characters and the setting  matter. So why set the story in the 
Potterverse at all? As a form  of  entertainment , of course it can 
work, but the artistic level is dubious.


Pippin





From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 15 20:00:28 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber ?)
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 15:00:28 -0500
Subject: SHIP: Jumping SHIP, FriendSHIPper
Message-ID: <F59PEO8hRNsFABZnegW00005229@hotmail.com>


As my reply is mostly fluffy, off to the OT-Chatter list we go, heigh-ho!

>From: "Amy Z" <aiz24 at hotmail.com>
>
>Okay (dons goggles and steps into inflatable life-ring with the head of a 
>duck), you all have finally convinced me to get off my ship.  It's about 
>time that I owned up to the fact that simply thinking R/H is going to 
>happen does not make me an R/H shipper.  I don't give a Flooper's feather 
>who ends up with whom, if anyone, as long as the Trio doesn't break up.  
>Look out below!--(holds nose, balances on the railing)--I'm about to hit 
>the water. Hope Amber paddles over on her raft to pick me up before I sink.

*yays happily and paddles over post haste* Amy! You're jumping Ship! Wahoo! 
Oh dear, watch out. Nearly swamped the raft, we did; I'll have to do more 
repairs so it can hold up two people. This raft, I fear, isn't the sturdiest 
thing. Lots of leaks and it tends to get overturned when one of the big 
Ships sails on by.

If you don't like the raft, you could always become a Mechanimagus like Neil 
and sink to the bottom of the Shipping Waters. You could find your way to 
dry land, far, far away from any mention of shipping and discuss Hermione's 
age, Snape's past, and the number of the Hogwarts population without even a 
hint of romance. Or you can stay on the waters and watch the debates with 
interest. Or, you could hail another Ship and clambor aboard. Lots of 
options.

Heh, you know what? Since you don't want the Trio to break up, and I don't 
either, we should create the first Trio FriendSHIPper boat. It's about time 
something like that came into existence...

~Amber

********
http://www.the-tabula-rasa.com

"It may help to understand human affairs to be clear that most of the great 
triumphs and tragedies of history are caused, not by people being 
fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, but by people being fundamentally 
people."

-- Neil Gaiman & Terry Pratchett, Good Omens


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 16 00:08:48 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (jenP_97)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 00:08:48 -0000
Subject: SHIP: Jumping SHIP, FriendSHIPper
In-Reply-To: <F59PEO8hRNsFABZnegW00005229@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9vgomg+1ug9@eGroups.com>

Amy jumped ship, boarded a raft and almost tipped it, and Amber 
Hooray-ed...

;)

Hey, sign me up!  I must be Amy's shipping twin, because though I 
*think* that R/H is going to happen, I'm not willing to brandish a 
sword and impale anyone who disagrees with me.  I'm not even willing 
to take out a toothpick and threaten to poke anyone who tells me I'm 
blind to think that. :)  Perhaps I am, when it comes down to it... so 
I've also decided I'm a no-shipper... 

So since we're not *shipping* (ship being the operative word here), 
we shouldn't be on a sea-worthy (or any water-worthy) vessel.  I 
think I remember someone mentioning a desert island somewhere once... 
(can you tell I don't read the shipping arguments/discussions/flame 
wars at all?) maybe we could start populating some sort of isle in 
the Bermuda triangle - where all former shippers disappear and are 
never heard from again.  Or something. ;)

Jen (who is pointedly ignoring the "Shipping should be allowed!" / "I 
don't want to read any more shipping arguments on the main list!" 
conversation on the main list... of course, I'm ignoring most of the 
threads on the main list, so that's not really remarkable...)

ps.  Yay!  Walmart ads are gone!




From mdartagnan at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 16 03:13:10 2001
From: mdartagnan at yahoo.com (Mdartagnan)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 03:13:10 -0000
Subject: Fanfiction and sex... slash vs. het
In-Reply-To: <9ve508+1o3i@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vh3g7+aji2@eGroups.com>

Ooooh, a fanfiction thread... ***____***
(A word from our sponsor: my first language is Spanish. Please be 
patient with me).

> We were talking about what a mature teen/adult writer can "get away 
> with" in a fic without the audience getting squicked.  We both came 
> to the conclusion that slash writers can get away with a whole lot 
> more than your average het writer.

I'd answer that yes, it does happen. But at least for me, there's a 
reason.
Personally, I don't mind reading slash or het, as long as it doesn't 
feature Harry, Ron and Hermione after book four ?no, not because I 
can't see them as real teenagers who will discover sex sooner or later, 
but because I want to read it first in the books. Once that JK is done 
with the Potterverse (I might have grandchildren by then -_-*), I'll 
finally read those fanfics. I'm weird, I know.
So, this only leaves me with MWPP fanfics and stories set before and 
during book 4. I really enjoy James/Lily stories, but also Sirius/Remus 
ones. 
But there are two things that will make me stop reading a story, no 
matter how well written it might be: Mary-Sue het stories and 
out-of-character slash stories.
I understand many persons might percieve a slash fanfic as an 
out-of-character story by default. I don't think it's neccesarily so. 
But, for instance, I dislike fanfics in which Remus behaves as a shy 
and weak violet. Canon Remus is strong yet sweet, and has problems with 
personal relationships (how many months did it take him to create a 
bond with Harry? And yet, he kept his distance afterwards). But that 
doesn't transform him into a weakling that cries everytime he has sex, 
be it with a male character or with a female character. (BTW, tears, 
like death, sex and violence, must have a plot that justifies them. ^^
UUU)

That said about slash, lets go to het fanfiction. On one hand, I think 
there seems to be more slash than het stories because there aren't as 
many female characters as there are male characters (and even so, there 
aren't many writers that might want to write an epic about the romantic 
life and times of Rita Skeeter). Het romance might be as steamy and 
well written as slash romance, and yet, it might be more difficult to 
make it believable. The main reason, from my POV, is that you might 
pair Lily, for example, with all the Marauders and with Snape, and yet 
you *know* she'll end up with James. So, many writers want to create a 
new character that will fall in love with Sirius, Remus and/or Snape 
(poor Peter). And if the plot gives much attention to this character 
and she's almost perfect and the canon character in turn falls blindly 
in love with her... you wonder if you're not reading a Mary-Sue story, 
and if instead of reading an alternate universe plot, you're actually 
learning about the wishes and desires of the author. Many readers, 
myself included, will then say "no, thanks".

I don't think that *every* non-canonical character is a Mary-sue by 
default. There are many wonderful fan-created female characters out 
there, but there are a minority against Mary-Sue fanfics (at least on 
Fanfiction.net).

In short (and all the list will want to hang me right now ^^U), het 
romance might seem less popular because it's harder to convince your 
readers and because it's more difficult to write your characters, canon 
and fan-made, in a believable way. You already know Sirius and Remus 
and you know how they *might* react in a romantic setting, but you 
don't know this "new-character" and you might doubt in giving her the 
chance, esp. if you dislike Mary-Sues. At least that's what happens 
with me.


> 1)  Why do you think this double standard exists?  Is it reflective 
> of the quality of the writing or the maturity level/personal squicks 
> of the audience?

Again, from a personal POV, I think it depends on the personal squicks 
of the audience. Most of the slash writers I've met are quite mature 
and won't go flaming het writers. But many het writers/lovers I've 
seen, not only in this fandom but in many others, will flame both slash 
writers and het writers ?if they don't like the pairing. 
For example, in the Saint Seiya fandom, it's almost as if you could 
only write about the couples insinuated or established in the show. 
Dare to change that (for instance, make Seiya fall in love with Shaina 
instead of Saori) and that will guarantee you a lot of flames even if 
you're writing a het romance. And let's not talk about the attacks on 
slash/yaoi writers in the same fandom.


> 2)  Is there a way to write het fanfiction, R or higher, that escapes 
> this stigma?

Since I've not read many of the best HP fanfics out there (yet), I'm 
sure there is. Keep your canonical characters "in-character" and create 
believable and likable fan-made characters. And about the steamy 
scenes, write them as you feel comfortable with. Sex scenes are, after 
all, a matter of personal taste: what might seem erotic for some 
persons, might seem gross for others.

And yet, no one is a gold coin to be liked by eveyone. I've met persons 
who won't read some of the best fanfics out there just because they're 
too long for their tastes. *sigh.*


> 3)  In your opinion, should there even *be* NC-17 Harry Potter 
> fanfiction, slash *or* het?

If we depart from the definition of fanfiction as a "what if" realm, 
why not? As long as they're properly labeled, both for the writer's and 
reader's sake, I can't see any problem with that. After all, I insist, 
it's all a matter of personal tastes. ^^



I hope this makes sense, it's late and it's hard to think in two 
languages at the same time. ^^UUUU


Misbehave,
Marijose

PS: Sorry, I've just realized it's a very long message. v_v






From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Dec 16 06:02:04 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 06:02:04 -0000
Subject: Tabouli on Karkaroff and Justin 
Message-ID: <9vhdcs+qdmp@eGroups.com>

Hey, Tabouli!

I read your speculation on Karkaroff's feelings toward Viktor when
you first posted it (and I am too lazy to look it up now, or find the 
quotes in GoF myself). Yes, Igor fusses coddlingly over Viktor. Yes, 
at the Yule Ball, Igor gazes hostilely at Viktor dancing with 
Hermione, and the narrator describes him in the same words as Ron 
gazing hostilely at Hermione dancing with Viktor. Your argument was: 
since we know that Ron's hostility is based on romantic jealousy, why 
not Igor's hostility described in the same words be based on the same 
thing? I couldn't find anything in canon that makes it impossible or 
even extremely unlikely, but I still don't like it, so there wasn't 
much for me to reply.

Only an exposE of my bad reasons for not liking it, of which the 
first is what bad PR it would be for the ONLY person depicted by the 
author as attracted to a person of the same sex to be an evil, weak, 
smarmy person who forces unwanted advances on his subordinate. Yuck. 
Canon makes it clear that the advances were unwanted.

And my second is that my dislike of Karkaroff is such that I would 
rather ascribe foul motives to him, such as trying to make money from 
Viktor's fame. Maybe the coddling, such as the offer of hot wine, 
really was to take care of Viktor's health so he can be healthy to 
win the contests that Igor has bet on him to win, and the hostility 
toward him dancing with Hermione was simply fear that she would keep 
him up too late and he wouldn't get enough sleep. 

Altho' my own equally unprovable theory is that Igor coddles Viktor
in an attempt to get Viktor to like him so that he can become 
Viktor's financial manager, sell endorsements and so on, and skim 
money off the top, and the objection to Hermione is that she's smart 
and might audit Igor's financial reports to Viktor.

It doesn't seem to me that there is anything about Viktor which would 
be particularly romantically/erotically attractive to Igor. Viktor 
isn't pretty and, if he has a noble character, Igor is not the type 
to be attracted by nobility. The school girls chased Viktor because 
he's a celebrity, but it seems to me that celebrities lose their 
special allure to people who actually know them in real life.

As for Justin Finch-Fletchley being the only male to be favorably 
impressed by Lockhart:

"That Lockhart's something, isn't he?" said Justin happily as they
began filling their plant pots with dragon dung compost. "Awfully
brave chap. Have you read his books? I'd have died of fear if Id been
cornered in a telephone booth by a werewolf, but he stayed cool and -
zap - just fantastic.

"My name was down for Eton, you know. I can't tell you how glad
I am I came here instead. Of course, Mother was slightly 
disappointed, but since I made her read Lockhart's books I think 
she's begun to see how useful it'll be to have a fully trained wizard 
in the family . . . ."

I'd love for there to be canon backing the fanon cliche of Justin 
as gay, but it doesn't seem that Justin was charmed by Lockhart's 
looks or Most Charming Smile, but rather deceived by his brags. I 
still read this as Justin being mildly stupid (another piece of 
classist stereotyping, incidentally) rather than as Justin being 
proto-gay.

And the reason I quoted the whole speech was because I just noticed 
that it contains 'telephone booth'! (Is it 'telephone box' in the 
original?) Lockhart should At Least be teaching his students that 
it isn't pronounced fellytone!




From marshamoon at gateway.net  Sun Dec 16 08:34:41 2001
From: marshamoon at gateway.net (marshacrc)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 08:34:41 -0000
Subject: Cross-stitch (was: Hedwig problems ...), also Harry Potter Christmas trees
Message-ID: <9vhmb1+7o3d@eGroups.com>

On the cross-stitch issue: have seen none, but having been an avid 
cross stitcher, I expect that we will see some, but they will be in 
kit form, always inferior products.  My adult daughter and myself 
design a bit for cross stitch, and I've been thinking of developing 
HP cross stitch for our own purposes; concentrating on the quotable 
quotes from the books,i.e.; "It is our choices, etc..." and the 
like.  If, in fact, there is any interest in this, I would be happy 
to share with the group, if and when.

Have to share my HP christmas tree with everyone.  I have an 
artificial tree with purple/fuschia lights.  I purchased every HP 
ornament I could find commercially, all the Hallmark ornaments, ones 
from Target, etc...(dragons, all the major characters, houses, 
brooms, wands, owls, hats, you name it)  In addition, I added stars 
and moons and other celestial objects which I already owned.  My 
daughter and I had a grand time selecting other appropriate pieces: 
ornaments shaped like a black dog, a ginger cat, a Fang like dog, a 
Mrs. Norris cat, and a frosted transparent leaping stag with silver 
antlers.  My incredibly creative child came up with this idea: we 
bought gold glass ornaments about 2 inches in diameter, puffy white 
small wings from the local craft store, gold glitter hot glue-and I 
cut the wings in half and hot glued them to the ornaments, then used 
the glitter glue to make a decorative pattern on the ornaments.  I 
tied a nice gold ribbon to the top, and TA-DA!  We have Snitches! I 
hung these and the commercially made Harry Potter eyeglasses from the 
tree, set up the Bachman Hogwarts Express around the base, and added 
an antique green painted concrete Toad doorstop at the base.  Sitting 
in attendance are the soft dolls of Harry, Ron, and Hermione. In the 
corner of the room, I have my Harry Potter mobile hanging, in 
perpetual capture of the snitch, while dodging the bludgers and 
quaffles.  We had so much fun with this (did I mention that somewhere 
during this fun project I officially became guilty of "having spent 
too-much-money on my Harry Potter obsession"?)that we threw a Harry 
Potter party, with a Harry cake (only took 4 hours to decorate, but 
what-the-hey?), English tea items, home made chocolate frogs from a 
HP candy making kit, actual Mint Humbugs, and Bertie Bott's EFB's.   




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Dec 16 09:28:27 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 09:28:27 -0000
Subject: Cross-stitch 
In-Reply-To: <9vhmb1+7o3d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vhpfr+4jsb@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "marshacrc" <marshamoon at g...> wrote:
> On the cross-stitch issue: have seen none, but having been an avid 
> cross stitcher, I expect that we will see some, but they will be in 
> kit form, always inferior products.  My adult daughter and myself 
> design a bit for cross stitch, and I've been thinking of developing 
> HP cross stitch for our own purposes; concentrating on the quotable 
> quotes from the books,i.e.; "It is our choices, etc..." and the 
> like.  If, in fact, there is any interest in this, I would be happy 
> to share with the group, if and when.
> 
Wow, sounds great :)  One thing, though...PLEASE make sure you clear 
all the copyright stuff first if you plan to sell them to the general 
public.  I think that's one of the reasons there's no HP cross-stitch 
right now; WB is probably demanding a bomb in copyright fees.  It's a 
shame, but there we have it.  WB probably doesn't realize how many 
cross-stitchers are out there (rapidly multiplying and armed with 
blunt needles and pretty threads!), so there's no need for them to 
demand a high fee in order for them to make a good profit.  I'm 
keeping my eyes peeled for kits as well, but seeing as there are none 
out yet I'm not holding my breath.

If nothing else, you and your daughter can enjoy the charts you're 
designing yourself...and you can always offer them to friends, family 
and other listies on the sly :)  ::::::ducks as Mods throw copyright 
law books at her:::::  I can't draw proportional stick people, much 
less design.  Let us know how you get on!

Cheers!

Mary Ann
(who must find a groovy snowy owl cross stitch kit to go with her 
groovy barn owl kit)  




From thebronze at thebronze.demon.co.uk  Sun Dec 16 09:47:14 2001
From: thebronze at thebronze.demon.co.uk (The Bronze)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 09:47:14 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Cross-stitch
References: <9vhpfr+4jsb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000501c18616$a5613be0$c4d3edc1@kay>


----- Original Message -----
From: "macloudt" <macloudt at yahoo.co.uk>
To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 9:28 AM
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Cross-stitch


>>
> Mary Ann
> (who must find a groovy snowy owl cross stitch kit to go with her
> groovy barn owl kit)


Dimensions do quite a nice Hedwig (Even if they do insist on calling it a
Snowy Owl) but there are quite a few different designs around.

Cal

>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
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>
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From tabouli at unite.com.au  Sun Dec 16 14:38:54 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 01:38:54 +1100
Subject: Role models and tokenism: the ogling Igor
Message-ID: <001301c1863f$79b2b0e0$fa35c2cb@price>

Oo, finally a response to my theory that Karkarov is gay and lusting after Krum!  (K/K?)  A disagreeing one, but you can't have everything.  Like it or no, I maintain that as canon evidence of homosexuality goes, Karkarov is the best candidate I've seen to date, for the reasons Rita mentions...

> what bad PR it would be for the ONLY person depicted by the 
author as attracted to a person of the same sex to be an evil, weak, 
smarmy person who forces unwanted advances on his subordinate. Yuck. 
Canon makes it clear that the advances were unwanted.<

Ahhhh, the ol' role models vs realism problem again (now, before I launch into this, let me hastily add that this is a general rant, not a Rant at Rita, who has already admitted she knows this is a weakish reason!).  Sure, socio-politically I can see good justifications for providing ignorant homophobes and despairing closet-dwellers with a strong, positive, kindly gay character, especially if there's only one in the whole series.  No need to promote further nasty stereotypes when there are so many already.  From my perspective as anti-prejudice fighter who is stridently in favour of gay rights and law reform, I quite see this.  However...

...my inner Artiste not only baulks, she is painting her banners for a noisy protest march down the streets at the very idea of such motivations dictating the nature of an author's fictional characters.  If I was writing a story where the only gay character was a nasty, manipulative piece of work for important artistic reasons, I would absolutely refuse to give him/her a radical personality makeover to appease baying factions and role-model hunters, for the same reasons that I would refuse to turn a character into a sexy blonde cheerleader to attract the straight male market.  I will not be forced into turning my art into a propaganda vehicle for other people's political messages, even if I agree with them.  There are other avenues for promoting such messages which I am already exercising.

Reminds me of some article I read by the man who draws Dilbert.  He'd been lampooning white "computer geeks" for months, and then he introduced two new characters - one Indian and one woman.  True to form, he lampooned them as well, but suddenly his desk erupted in an avalanche of howlers.  How dare you have an Ethnic character or a Woman doing anything bad or ridiculous?  You racist, sexist, abominable man!  You're sending out the message that all Indians are boring computer geeks who do stupid things/ that all women are uptight airheads!  Sigh.

I suppose this shows the perils of tokenism, doesn't it?  If you only have one representative from a group, you are being "prejudiced" unless that representative is above reproach in every word and deed.  Hence this sudden, implausible influx of impossibly impeccable "oppressed group representatives" who defy all stereotypes with the greatest of ease, jump tall bigots in a single bound, and behave like a cross between Einstein, Mother Teresa and Buddha.  In its way I find this not only silly and unrealistic, but rather patronising.  Even misleading, as it promotes the well-meaning but dangerously flawed view that we're all the same underneath, regardless of sex, culture, age and so on.  Promote the "we are all of equal value" line, sure, but we are *not* all the same underneath in terms of behavioural standards, values, and so on.  If we were, there would be no such thing as culture shock and no-one would have bought "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus".

> And my second is that my dislike of Karkaroff is such that I would 
rather ascribe foul motives to him<

>It doesn't seem to me that there is anything about Viktor which would 
be particularly romantically/erotically attractive to Igor. Viktor 
isn't pretty and, if he has a noble character, Igor is not the type 
to be attracted by nobility. The school girls chased Viktor because 
he's a celebrity, but it seems to me that celebrities lose their 
special allure to people who actually know them in real life.<

I like your theory, though to fit into my above rant, there's no reason why Karkaroff couldn't be both sexually interested in Krum *and* have foul motives.  Maybe the HP narrator (be it Harry, JKR or Hermione) doesn't find Krum attractive, but who knows what rings Igor's bell?  I agree that nobility's not the sort of thing to get him chiming, but maybe he likes 'em dark and brooding with bulging broomstick muscles, or is turned on by his earnest, youthful awkwardness.  Maybe he started out as mentor, but became increasingly attracted and posessive as Viktor grew in talent and fame.  It wouldn't be the first time that a coach tried to abuse his position of power.  And as you say, Karkaroff does seem a rather cowardly character, and he might well be tempted into this sort of thing.  Ogling, at least, if not more serious advances.  Plus, as you point out, Krum makes it clear that he does not like Igor and feels very uncomfortable with him...

Tabouli.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com  Sun Dec 16 15:22:55 2001
From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 16:22:55 +0100
Subject: English Books for 12 to 13-year-olds
References: <001301c1863f$79b2b0e0$fa35c2cb@price>
Message-ID: <000501c18645$8951cf30$e500a8c0@shasta>

Hi guys!

A friend of mine teaches English in a local middle school. Recently, two
children moved back to Switzerland after having grown up in New Zealand.
Apparently, their English-language skills are on par with children of their
age back in New Zealand - but they've ended up in a school for educationally
challenged kids. That makes sense in most of their other classes, but not in
English.

My friend (a good teacher but a native Swiss with passable English skills)
wants to do the best she can for the children in question, but she has to
concentrate most of her energy on her slow learners. She asked me if I could
recommend a fairly self-explanatory English curriculum that would allow the
children to make some sort of progress - or at least not lose ground! - with
a severely limited amount of supervision from her.

Do any of you fine teachers (or fine soon to be former teachers ... ) have a
recommendation?

I suppose it would be helpful if the curriculum uses some form of UK or
commonwealth English (which is more current here in CH and corresponds to
the kids' background). OTOH, I have an inkling that materials used in
home-schooling systems (more prevalent in the US, I believe) might be
designed for a didactically compatible scenario.

Baaaaaa!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray)
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been
bravery...."




From absinthe at mad.scientist.com  Sun Dec 16 17:23:08 2001
From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milztoday)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 17:23:08 -0000
Subject: English Books for 12 to 13-year-olds
In-Reply-To: <000501c18645$8951cf30$e500a8c0@shasta>
Message-ID: <9vil9s+cpgo@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Aberforth's Goat" 
<Aberforths_Goat at Y...> wrote:
> Hi guys!
> 
> A friend of mine teaches English in a local middle school. 
Recently, two
> children moved back to Switzerland after having grown up in New 
Zealand.
> Apparently, their English-language skills are on par with children 
of their
> age back in New Zealand - but they've ended up in a school for 
educationally
> challenged kids. That makes sense in most of their other classes, 
but not in
> English.
> 

Yes, it does make sense! My college roommate was born and raised in 
the US and spoke Spanish at home, but her Spanish language skills 
(ie. grammar, writing) were the equivalent of a functional literate. 
Same goes for English. In my experience, generally people who learn 
English as a second language tend to speak and write grammatically 
correct English. Native speakers generally don't.
 
Milz 




From john at walton.vu  Sun Dec 16 17:26:49 2001
From: john at walton.vu (John Walton)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 12:26:49 -0500
Subject: Meh! My Yahoo password was changed without my knowledge!
Message-ID: <B8424389.2925%john@walton.vu>

Just a kinda of advicey thing here. If, like me, you use a password for
several things on the net, I'd change it if I were you. Someone managed to
get into my Yahoo account "johnwaltonvu" and change my password. I'm
currently trying to get it sorted out with Yahoo, but it's very
inconvenient.

So, the moral of the story is to change your passwords regularly and make
them weird -- with numbers, non-real words, etc.

--A Very Concerned John
________________________________

John Walton -- john at walton.vu

Percy turned Oliver over onto his side in case he was ill, and pulled the
duvet up to cover his firm, slightly hairy chest.
*Damn, he's fit,* Percy thought. *If only he were gay...*

>From Keeper's Secrets, Chapter 1, by Wood's Keeper
http://www.astronomytower.org/cgi-bin/links/jump.cgi?ID=264
________________________________




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Sun Dec 16 17:55:13 2001
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 17:55:13 -0000
Subject: the ogling Igor now  veering dangerously on topic
In-Reply-To: <001301c1863f$79b2b0e0$fa35c2cb@price>
Message-ID: <9vin61+1oh9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tabouli" <tabouli at u...> wrote:
> Oo, finally a response to my theory that Karkarov is gay and 
lusting after Krum!  (K/K?)  A disagreeing one, but you can't have 
everything.  Like it or no, I maintain that as canon evidence of 
homosexuality goes, Karkarov is the best candidate I've seen to 
date, for the reasons Rita mentions...
  <<snip>>

> 
> I like your theory, though to fit into my above rant, there's no 
reason why Karkaroff couldn't be both sexually interested in 
Krum *and* have foul motives.  Maybe the HP narrator (be it 
Harry, JKR or Hermione) doesn't find Krum attractive, but who 
knows what rings Igor's bell?  I agree that nobility's not the sort of 
thing to get him chiming, but maybe he likes 'em dark and 
brooding with bulging broomstick muscles, or is turned on by his 
earnest, youthful awkwardness. 

Hmmm. I've noted before that Snape and Krum are the same 
physical type...what were Snape and Karkaroff doing strolling 
around in the moonlight, anyway? And Snape is also 
uncomfortable with Igor.

Pippin
still thinking Snape/Filch has more canon evidence.






From heathernmoore at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 16 17:59:09 2001
From: heathernmoore at yahoo.com (heathernmoore)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 17:59:09 -0000
Subject: Fanfiction and sex... slash vs. het
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20011214170546.00aadc60@mail.mcn.org>
Message-ID: <9vindd+vriu@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Catherine Keegan <keegan at m...> wrote:
> OK  I'll bite.  I've only recently started reading the HP fanfics.  I avoid 
> the slash stories.  I've stumbled into a few and had to wonder how I was 
> that blind to not figure out that it was a slash story until I got to the 
> sexual side of the story.  Some of them even had warnings but for a while I 
> was browsing through Schnoogle and Sugar Quill sequentially without always 
> checking the first page of information...
> 
> At 12:20 AM 12/15/01 +0000, Ebony wrote:
> >Questions:
> >
> >1)  Why do you think this double standard exists?  Is it reflective
> >of the quality of the writing or the maturity level/personal squicks
> >of the audience?
> 


  I've never quite understood my own reaction in this issue, but explicit sex scenes, whether textual or visual, almost *always* ring as "padding" to me -- fluff which doesn't do much to further the plot, but gets that impressive word count up. 

I've never been embarrassed by sexually explicit talk/advice columns or radio shows, objective talk *about* sex in the form of "top this" sessions with friends or sexual manuals (a la JOY OF SEX or 1001 NIGHTS OF GREAT SEX). It's always great fun to go and peek/giggle/rummage/scheme/buy things in the new wave of Respectable Adult Toy Stores and then show them off to/try to figure them out with The Current Boyfriend. And by the same token, a good chunk of my friends are gay men, and I have *lots* of fun going out clubbing with them -- I'll dress more outrageously and dance with more abandon as a straight women among gay men that I will otherwise.

So I'm pretty sure my impatience with sexually explicit scenes in stories doesn't come from an innate discomfort with sex itself. 

The discomfort isn't restricted to fan fiction, either - I can barely tolerate Jean Auel's novels because she increasingly loads them up with repetitive sex scenes between Ayla and Jondalar (or someone who is making Jondalar boring and insecure). She's a fine writer, though, with interesting extrapolations of archaeological theory.
Just as a lot of fanfiction writers turn out material of professional quality -- Lori and Barb being two whom I have read. (Although I'm more familiar with Lori's X-Men stuff, I'll admit.) Good ear for voice, dialogue, much smoother plotting than I can manage at this stage.  But as with Auel's stories, whenever I get to the sex scenes, my eyes do that compulive roll and glaze. Unaccountably, I squick.
  
 I squick at some other kinds of "padding," too -- excessive angst, pretentious symbolism, pseudopolitical rants (if I disagree with the underlying politics, of course ... ;>), cutsey-poo New Age stuff, Hurt/Comfort touchy-feeliness.  But the reaction doesn't have quite the same impatient flavor as the sex-scene squick. 

 I'm thinking the squickiness might be related in some way to varying personal approaches to personal space and privacy and intimacy. I'm not sure it's entirely fair to treat maturity level and personal-squick-factor as a linked trait -- they may be *wholly* separate from one another. 

 Is it possible that the audience for slash fanfiction is selected from a less cynical subset of the fandom? 

 Or have I talked myself into a corner?




From marshamoon at gateway.net  Sun Dec 16 17:59:22 2001
From: marshamoon at gateway.net (marshacrc)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 17:59:22 -0000
Subject: Cross-stitch (and copyrights) and HP art
In-Reply-To: <9vhpfr+4jsb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vindq+h986@eGroups.com>

Mary Ann wrote:
> 
> If nothing else, you and your daughter can enjoy the charts you're 
> designing yourself...and you can always offer them to friends, 
family 
> and other listies on the sly :)  ::::::ducks as Mods throw 
copyright 
> law books at her:::::  I can't draw proportional stick people, much 
> less design.  Let us know how you get on!

Yes, I am very aware of the copyright laws-know it would be 
impossible to arrange such a thing with Warner's-but I can't see too 
much difference between fanfiction and fanart and making patterns 
available on-line to HP4GU list friends.  I've been making myself 
crazy over some of the Harry Potter commercial art and how mediocre 
some of it is.  I've an art degree with a specialty in drawing and 
painting the human figure; and I'm kicking myself because I wasn't in 
the right place and time to contribute my character versions to 
anything: the trading cards, toys, etc..., or cross-stitch patterns.  
Anyway, all is moot until I get these mythical cross-stitch patterns 
created and scan them, isn't it?  Til then...





From heathernmoore at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 16 18:33:05 2001
From: heathernmoore at yahoo.com (heathernmoore)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:33:05 -0000
Subject: HP "memes" and Popular Songs
Message-ID: <9vipd1+r9ea@eGroups.com>

I'm sure everyone's familiar with the experience of - uhm, I guess "memetic infection," you could call it. You know the drill: you get just so taken with a particular story element that you find parallels to it in things which have no connection. Mostly this happens with songs, where you'll assign an unrelated "theme" to a character. 

Just for yuks, I'm interested in hearing about what parallels people have drawn with Harry Potter's situations and people.  

As an illustration, I'll give one which is pretty strong for me: every time I hear The Calling's "Wherever You Will Go," I can't help but think of this as Lily Potter's lullabye for Harry during their week in hiding at Godric's Hollow. Here are some of the lyrics:

 "So lately, been wondering / who sill be there to take my place. / When I'm gone, you'll need love / to light the shadows on your face. // If a great wave should fall and fall upon us all / then between the sand and stone / could you make it on your own? 

 (Refrain) If I could then I would. / I'll go wherever you may go. / Way up high or down low / I'll go wherever you will go. //

 And maybe I'll find out / a way to make it back someday / to watch you, to guide you / through the darkest of your days. / If a great wave shall fall and fall upon us all / then I hope there's someone out there / who can bring me back to you. /

 (Refrain again)

 I know now just quite how / My life and love might still go on. / In your heart, in your mind / I'll stay with you for all of time. //

 (refrain again)"

  The Calling surely intend it as a romantic song, but it always strikes me very strongly as a maternal song instead.

  (For some reason, I have developed a tendency to twain that "I would die for you" song by Garbage with Mrs. Lestrange, too.....)





From UcfRentLuvr at cs.com  Sun Dec 16 18:36:24 2001
From: UcfRentLuvr at cs.com (UcfRentLuvr at cs.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:36:24 EST
Subject: HP "memes" and Popular Songs
Message-ID: <176.dc5374.294e43a8@cs.com>

The Calling surely intend it as a romantic song, but it always strikes me 
very strongly as a maternal song instead.>>

Actually, I saw them do an interview on MTV the other day and they said the 
song wasn't supposed to be about romantic love. It had to do with the 
guitarist and his uncle, I can't really remember what. However, if it isn't 
supposed to be romantic, then the director of the video got it wrong. 
*Shrugs* I still love the song though. :)


***Dixie Malfoy***

  




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From mojca.rupnik at eudoramail.com  Sun Dec 16 18:39:21 2001
From: mojca.rupnik at eudoramail.com (racjom)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:39:21 -0000
Subject: Need some positive thoughts
Message-ID: <9vipop+8cst@eGroups.com>

Hello, everyone.
I am a lurker and don't post (I just never keep up with the digests 
and by the time I want to make a point about something it had already 
been done by someone else; I love to read your thoughts though), but 
I noticed that you give comfort to group  members (I'm not sure if 
this is only to those you chat with and 'know').  
My dad is ill. Depression just totally came over him and he is 
completly lost. It hurts me so much and I feel helpless. I wish I 
cold conjure a Patronus and send his Dementors away
 Every time I 
come from the hospital from visiting him (he's been there for a 
week), I feel like crying. 
Mojca in a need for some positive thoughts





From virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 16 18:58:34 2001
From: virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com (virtualworldofhp)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:58:34 -0000
Subject: Sex in literature (WAS Fanfiction and sex... slash vs. het)
In-Reply-To: <9vindd+vriu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9viqsq+ma35@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "heathernmoore" <heathernmoore at y...> 
The discomfort isn't restricted to fan fiction, either - I can barely
tolerate Jean Auel's novels because she increasingly loads them up
with repetitive sex scenes between Ayla and Jondalar (or someone who
is making Jondalar boring and insecure). She's a fine writer, though,
with interesting extrapolations of archaeological theory.
> Just as a lot of fanfiction writers turn out material of
professional quality -- Lori and Barb being two whom I have read.
(Although I'm more familiar with Lori's X-Men stuff, I'll admit.) Good
ear for voice, dialogue, much smoother plotting than I can manage at
this stage.  But as with Auel's stories, whenever I get to the sex
scenes, my eyes do that compulive roll and glaze. Unaccountably, I squick.

Aha, I thought that was a popular consensus on EC books.  Glad to see
a fellow reader out there!  While the books carry a lot of substance
to the story, the sex scenes DO become more and more frequent, while
in case becoming less and less "plot-vital".  Yeah, we get the point
that he's madly in love with her gorgeous body & she can't help but
fall for his "impossibly blue eyes", but when sexually explicit scenes
become simply fluff, I find myself skimming over them.  I think sex in
literature is tolerable (personally) so long as it has a point, a
foundation in the base story, but I really don't like to read it just
to hear the details of their acts for the one-billionth time.

Just my thoughts.

-Megan (wondering if there are possibly any more ways to describe
Jondular's "manhood" and if their passion will become significantly
less now that they're actually living with his people--but this isn't
an EC message board, so I digress ;-))




From virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 16 19:00:46 2001
From: virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com (virtualworldofhp)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 19:00:46 -0000
Subject: HP "memes" and Popular Songs
In-Reply-To: <9vipd1+r9ea@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vir0u+h3ba@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "heathernmoore" <heathernmoore at y...> wrote:
> 
>  "So lately, been wondering / who sill be there to take my place. /
When I'm gone, you'll need love / to light the shadows on your face.
// If a great wave should fall and fall upon us all / then between the
sand and stone / could you make it on your own? 
> 
>  (Refrain) If I could then I would. / I'll go wherever you may go. /
Way up high or down low / I'll go wherever you will go. //
> 
>  And maybe I'll find out / a way to make it back someday / to watch
you, to guide you / through the darkest of your days. / If a great
wave shall fall and fall upon us all / then I hope there's someone out
there / who can bring me back to you. /
> 
>  (Refrain again)
> 
>  I know now just quite how / My life and love might still go on. /
In your heart, in your mind / I'll stay with you for all of time. //
> 
>  (refrain again)"

Megan:--who ABSOLUTELY loves this song! (and never actually connected
it with anything HP & who liked it even before it became popular <grin>).




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Dec 16 19:55:51 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 19:55:51 -0000
Subject: Need some positive thoughts
In-Reply-To: <9vipop+8cst@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9viu87+h32k@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "racjom" <mojca.rupnik at e...> wrote:

> My dad is ill. Depression just totally came over him and he is 
> completly lost. It hurts me so much and I feel helpless. I wish I 
> cold conjure a Patronus and send his Dementors away
 Every time I 
> come from the hospital from visiting him (he's been there for a 
> week), I feel like crying. 
> Mojca in a need for some positive thoughts

Poor Mojca. One good thing is, someone noticed in time to get him 
into a hospital. If the hospital's any good at all, they'll be trying 
some of the anti-depressant drugs. Even if the first drug they try 
is the right one, it takes more than a week to take effect. I was 
lucky, in that the first one I tried (not in hospital!) was the right 
one AND it started working in two weeks. Even after the right drug 
is found, it takes more trial and error to find the dosage.




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Sun Dec 16 20:10:39 2001
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catorman)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:10:39 -0000
Subject: SHIP: Jumping SHIP, FriendSHIPper
In-Reply-To: <9vgomg+1ug9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9viv3v+keu6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "jenP_97" <jenP_97 at y...> wrote:
> Amy jumped ship, boarded a raft and almost tipped it, and Amber 
> Hooray-ed...
> 
> ;)
> 
> Hey, sign me up!  I must be Amy's shipping twin, because though I 
> *think* that R/H is going to happen, I'm not willing to brandish a 
> sword and impale anyone who disagrees with me.  I'm not even 
willing 
> to take out a toothpick and threaten to poke anyone who tells me 
I'm 
> blind to think that. :)  Perhaps I am, when it comes down to it... 
so 
> I've also decided I'm a no-shipper... 


Me too.  My position is fairly complex.  I do not like Ron (at all, 
since PoA), and hate the idea of him with Hermione ( and totally 
agree with Ebony about the chances of *that* relationship).  I also 
quite like the idea of H/H.  But, the way I interpret GoF is very 
much R/H.  So, I decided a while ago, after the baptism of fire which 
was my first shipping debate back in March, that the good ship no-
ship was the place for me (albeit a biased one).

Catherine




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sun Dec 16 21:15:46 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 21:15:46 -0000
Subject: Welcome to Friendship Isle
In-Reply-To: <9viv3v+keu6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vj2u2+va7j@eGroups.com>

Catherine wrote:

>So, I decided a while ago, after the baptism of fire which 
> was my first shipping debate back in March, that the good ship no-
> ship was the place for me (albeit a biased one).

I hereby dub this lovely little spot near Bermuda Friendship Isle.  
Pull up a beach chair and enjoy watching the ships far out at sea 
lobbing Fizzing Whizzbees at each other.  We can place bets and yell 
friendly warnings through our magical megaphone--  watch out, H/Hers, 
there's a U-Boat sneaking up behind you!  Whew.  See what I mean?

Amy
hoping we don't face further Balkanization from the pro- and anti-Ron 
FriendSHIP contingents




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Sun Dec 16 22:47:51 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:47:51 -0000
Subject: Welcome to Friendship Isle
In-Reply-To: <9vj2u2+va7j@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vj8an+d5p3@eGroups.com>

Amy 'Barbarossa' Z wrote:

> I hereby dub this lovely little spot near Bermuda Friendship Isle.  
> Pull up a beach chair and enjoy watching the ships far out at sea 
> lobbing Fizzing Whizzbees at each other.  We can place bets and 
yell 
> friendly warnings through our magical megaphone--  watch out, 
H/Hers, 
> there's a U-Boat sneaking up behind you!  Whew.  See what I mean?

I'm very tempted to join, on the grounds that I agree with your 
collective canonical interpretations.

But I will stay out to sea for the time being - as an intermittent 
Battleships player I understand the whole point of going to sea is 
not the company of your shipmates, its the war, the fighting, the 
blood running in the scuppers, the feel of your cutlass in your mouth 
as you swing aboard the enemy's vessel, the roar of cannon, the 
squawk of the parrots, the thump of the wooden leg (yes, it's that 
Moody ship again), the bad imitations of a Devonian accent, and the 
glug glug glug of rum drunk straight from the bottle.

Avast, ye landlubbers

David




From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Sun Dec 16 23:15:42 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber ?)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:15:42 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Welcome to Friendship Isle
Message-ID: <F36dfEm58zJZjUqPsV900005eb1@hotmail.com>


>From: "lupinesque" <aiz24 at hotmail.com>
>
>I hereby dub this lovely little spot near Bermuda Friendship Isle.
>Pull up a beach chair and enjoy watching the ships far out at sea
>lobbing Fizzing Whizzbees at each other.  We can place bets and yell
>friendly warnings through our magical megaphone--  watch out, H/Hers,
>there's a U-Boat sneaking up behind you!  Whew.  See what I mean?

Hee hee! The Friendship Isle: Where Everyone Is A Friend. And I do mean 
everyone, not just the Trio. If you look hard, you can see Tom Riddle 
talking to Ginny, Voldemort shaking hands with Harry, Sirius clapping Peter 
on the back, Draco and Ron sneaking up behind Hermione to scare her, Lucius 
agreeing with Arthur over the state of the Ministry these days and everyone 
getting into a huge congo line whilst singing "We Are Family" at the top of 
their lungs...

*pauses and notes the strange looks*

Er, okay, maybe in my odd mind. I think it'd be a really cool sight, though. 
Very, very unrealistic but cool.

~Amber
(Who has docked her little raft for the time being...)

********
http://www.the-tabula-rasa.com

"It may help to understand human affairs to be clear that most of the great 
triumphs and tragedies of history are caused, not by people being 
fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, but by people being fundamentally 
people."

-- Neil Gaiman & Terry Pratchett, Good Omens


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From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Sun Dec 16 23:31:19 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:31:19 -0000
Subject: Voldemort in Scandinavia
Message-ID: <9vjas7+pkn9@eGroups.com>

Ravenclaw775 wrote, on the main list:

> I looked up Volde in Norwegian and "volde sorg" means to grieve.

We need Christian to adjudicate this one, but, if Danish is anything 
to go by, the vold- element means 'force' or 'violence'.  Sorg means 
grief - so volde sorg presumably means very strong grief.

Morten is a name in Scandinavian languages.

So, I suggest: Voldemort = Violent Morten.

A-ha! Are we onto something here?

David




From heathernmoore at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 17 02:04:00 2001
From: heathernmoore at yahoo.com (heathernmoore)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 02:04:00 -0000
Subject: Welcome to Friendship Isle
In-Reply-To: <F36dfEm58zJZjUqPsV900005eb1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9vjjqg+i423@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amber ?" <inviziblegirl at h...> wrote:
> 
> >From: "lupinesque" <aiz24 at h...>
> >
> >I hereby dub this lovely little spot near Bermuda Friendship Isle.
> >Pull up a beach chair and enjoy watching the ships far out at sea
> >lobbing Fizzing Whizzbees at each other.  We can place bets and 
yell
> >friendly warnings through our magical megaphone--  watch out, 
H/Hers,
> >there's a U-Boat sneaking up behind you!  Whew.  See what I mean?
> 
> Hee hee! The Friendship Isle: Where Everyone Is A Friend. And I do 
mean 
> everyone, not just the Trio. If you look hard, you can see Tom 
Riddle 
> talking to Ginny, Voldemort shaking hands with Harry, Sirius 
clapping Peter 
> on the back, Draco and Ron sneaking up behind Hermione to scare 
her, Lucius 
> agreeing with Arthur over the state of the Ministry these days and 
everyone 
> getting into a huge congo line whilst singing "We Are Family" at 
the top of 
> their lungs...
> 
> *pauses and notes the strange looks*
> 
> Er, okay, maybe in my odd mind. I think it'd be a really cool 
sight, though. 
> Very, very unrealistic but cool.
> 
> ~Amber
> (Who has docked her little raft for the time being...)


  May I join the party? I'll bring Snape and we can organize the 
weenie roast and host Survivor: Friendship Island.




From heathernmoore at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 17 05:05:56 2001
From: heathernmoore at yahoo.com (heathernmoore)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 05:05:56 -0000
Subject: The betrayer?
Message-ID: <9vjufk+2ssp@eGroups.com>

There's been some ickle speculation on the main list of whether one 
of the Old Crowd is scheduled to betray Harry and Our Gang -- someone 
thought they remembered a reference in an interview, but nobody is 
owning up to having a citation.

 IF THERE IS a betrayer within the Old Crowd, going on the basis of 
names I'm suspecting it will prove to be Mundungus 
Fletcher.  "Mundungus" is Spanish slang for "smelly" or "garbage," 
and Christian Fletcher, of course, was the unscrupulous sailor who 
slandered Captain Bligh and started the mutiny aboard the Bounty.

 -- just a little yadayadayada,
     from heather(uma)




From mediaphen at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 17 07:26:35 2001
From: mediaphen at hotmail.com (Martin Smith)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:26:35 +0100
Subject: Tolkien/HP comparison: Willows (from main list)
References: <1008408542.487.47522.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <DAV20WqZNe3s9U6TOZg00003260@hotmail.com>

Jenbea had some thoughts:

  "Just thought I'd throw this in here:

  A major tree that plays a part in both series of books, Harry
Potter and Lord of the Rings is a willow. In Harry Potter, it's the
Whomping Willow, and I think it's safe to assume that we all know
what it does- and the destructive properties it can have! (Just ask
the Weasley car, if you can catch it wandering around the Forest
somewhere). Yet it's also the secret entrance, at the base, to a
tunnel to the Shrieking Shack.

  Likewise in LOTR, you have Old Man Willow, who, in Tom Bombadillo's
forest, has grown old and rotten at the core, and when the four
hobbits fall asleep, lured into his shade, they become entangled in
his roots and almost "eaten" by the tree.

  What I find most interesting is that both authors chose willows,
normally a sign of peace in most cultures, for trees with such
violent aspects! Interesting. Any ideas why?


jenbea"

You are totally right. And add to that the following thoughts:

One of the actors, who actually has two different parts in the Movie (a
Gringotts goblin and professor Flitwick) is Warwick Davis. His break-through
role was the title role of 1988 fantasy flick WILLOW!

Furthermore, what other series involves a trio of schoolkids fighting
supernatural evil with occasional help from an older mentor? That's right,
Buffy TVS. And what's the name of one of the heroic trio? Yup, WILLOW!

And so forth...

Martin, desperately trying to keep up with this weekend's worth of incoming
digests





From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon Dec 17 10:03:41 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:03:41 -0000
Subject: HP "memes" and Popular Songs
In-Reply-To: <9vipd1+r9ea@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vkftt+97s8@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "heathernmoore" <heathernmoore at y...> 
wrote:
> I'm sure everyone's familiar with the experience of - uhm, I 
guess "memetic infection," you could call it. You know the drill: you 
get just so taken with a particular story element that you find 
parallels to it in things which have no connection. Mostly this 
happens with songs, where you'll assign an unrelated "theme" to a 
character. 
> 

Isn't this how filks start?  Every time I hear Shaggy's 'It wasn't 
me', I think of Harry and Snape, you know:

Stealing all my Boomslang
It wasn't me
Turning up in Hogsmeade
It wasn't me

etc.

I just can't remember whether that's because it's an obvious 
association, or because someone already did the filk and it seeped 
into my subconscious, and it reappeared, pretending to be my own idea.

How could I forget,
They had sent it to the list for me?

David




From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Mon Dec 17 11:16:16 2001
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:16:16 -0000
Subject: Voldemort in Scandinavia
In-Reply-To: <9vjas7+pkn9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vkk61+2jr4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter, "davewitley" wrote:
> Ravenclaw775 wrote, on the main list:
> 
> > I looked up Volde in Norwegian and "volde sorg" means to grieve.
> 
> We need Christian to adjudicate this one, but, if Danish is
> anything to go by, the vold- element means 'force' or
> 'violence'.  Sorg means grief - so volde sorg presumably
> means very strong grief.

In Norway "vold" is a noun which means "violence" or "[physical] 
force", while "volde" is the infinitive form of a verb  which 
means "to cause" or "to occasion".  The only name-elements 
containing "mort" independently in Norway, are names related to the 
name Martin (see below), and I consider them not to come into play.  
I believe the situation is the same in the other Scandinavian 
countries.  There is a type of small fish called "mort" in Norwegian, 
though; the English term is "roach".  I think however that we can 
safely ignore roaches when  discussing any possible Norwegian 
interpretation of Voldemort's name.

I think the sanest Scandinavian interpretation of Voldemort's name is 
that it means "To cause death", "Causer of death", or "He who causes 
death".

> Morten is a name in Scandinavian languages.

Yes, it is related to Martin, which is derived from the Latin name 
Martinus, which in turned is derived from the God Mars.  Martinus has 
been known in Norway since around the 1200s, while the form Mortwn 
has been known in Denmark since the 1300s and Norway since the 1400s.

> So, I suggest: Voldemort = Violent Morten.
> 
> A-ha! Are we onto something here?

You make it sound like you think Morten Harket is Voldemort.  Would 
not that mean that Harry lost in book 7, since Morten Harket is still 
very much alive?

> David

Best regards
Christian Stub?




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon Dec 17 11:33:53 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 06:33:53 -0500
Subject: Sounds like a cross-stitch
Message-ID: <38850774.69844185.6E93A4F5@netscape.net>

Here is a new style of post that I have devised.  Each sentence adds a small amount to the total message, in a completely democratic fashion.  Really, it's not that hard to follow.  Many who are skilled at reading the subtext, however, may have trouble.  Initial information is followed by mere padding at each stage.  One clue I can give is that I am talking about Hermione here.  No doubt some will give up in disgust.  Every astute reader will realise that blankness will follow this paragraph.

Let me try to make myself more clear. Only loves should come out of the screen for you here.  Veer not on to the next post as I will soon be done.  Effort will, I'm sure, be rewarded.  Singular meaning is intended, and a third person implied, although the content concerns only two.

Regrettably, many H/Hers will see this post as a mere graffito.  One-liner though it essentially is, it should be clear that I am now speaking of Ron.  Now my message ends.

David
-- 




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From tabouli at unite.com.au  Mon Dec 17 12:29:04 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:29:04 +1100
Subject: NZ kids, Jean Auel, memes, piracy, Morten
Message-ID: <002201c186f6$6bad97a0$d00cdccb@price>

Aberforth's Goat:
> A friend of mine teaches English in a local middle school. Recently, two
children moved back to Switzerland after having grown up in New Zealand.
Apparently, their English-language skills are on par with children of their
age back in New Zealand - but they've ended up in a school for educationally
challenged kids. That makes sense in most of their other classes, but not in
English.

As a Hermione-clone at middle school age, I would have been mortified to find myself in a school for educationally challenged kids for any reason.  How about social issues?  If they're bright kids academically but just struggling because of language issues, wouldn't it be kinder to bung 'em in an international school for English speakers and tutor them up intensively in German or whatever the primary language is in that part of Switzerland?  (though I suppose those are likely to be extortionately expensive)  What part of Switzerland are you in?  I have a friend in Geneva who might have some ideas for you.

heathernmoore:
> I can barely tolerate Jean Auel's novels because she increasingly loads them up with repetitive sex scenes between Ayla and Jondalar

Hear hear.  Jean Auel has a lot of interesting and well-thought-out ideas, but she seems to feel compelled to mix them with enough sex scenes to fill your average Cleo magazine.  And they all seem to be more or less the same sex scene!  Can't she give Jondalar a taste for variety or a bit of kinkiness or something to liven things up, if she really must put ten sex scenes in every book?  Perhaps the one she repeats over and over reflects her own preferences in yon sack...

more heathernmoore:
> I'm sure everyone's familiar with the experience of - uhm, I guess "memetic infection," you could call it. You know the drill: you get just so taken with a particular story element that you find parallels to it in things which have no connection. Mostly this happens with songs, where you'll assign an unrelated "theme" to a character.

Whoever once said that 'Drops of Jupiter' instantly reminded her of Harry (with his permanent scar) was onto something - that was my first thought too when I heard it!

The elusive David (who never seems to be online when I seek him in social goodwill):
> But I will stay out to sea for the time being - as an intermittent 
Battleships player I understand the whole point of going to sea is 
not the company of your shipmates, its the war, the fighting, the 
blood running in the scuppers, the feel of your cutlass in your mouth 
as you swing aboard the enemy's vessel, the roar of cannon, the 
squawk of the parrots, the thump of the wooden leg (yes, it's that 
Moody ship again), the bad imitations of a Devonian accent, and the 
glug glug glug of rum drunk straight from the bottle.<

Aye aye, me hearties.  Is pirate-speak a pseudo-*Devon* accent, is it?  Most interesting.  I'd never even thought about this.  Hey, here's a new one for the X is a Y types... maybe Moody was a pirate!  Perhaps his magical eye is the soul of his sadly departed Lesser Blue Parakeet shoulder buddy, and his seven key chest is a relic from his treasure hunting days...  (doubloooons, anyone?)

more David:
> So, I suggest: Voldemort = Violent Morten.
>A-ha! Are we onto something here?

A-ha indeed!  So *that's* the secret of A-ha's success!  We swooning 13 year olds didn't realise it at the time, but that Take On Me video was a subliminal message to the Death Eaters telling them that Voldemort would soon rise from the pages of HP and take on the world...

Tabouli.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dracos_boyfriend at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Dec 17 14:08:04 2001
From: dracos_boyfriend at yahoo.co.uk (dracos_boyfriend)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:08:04 -0000
Subject: Please God - no more Morten Harket!
In-Reply-To: <9vkk61+2jr4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vku84+55go@eGroups.com>

Salient and interesting points from Christian - who I use as an 
encyclopedia :) and is also very cuddly ...

"You make it sound like you think Morten Harket is Voldemort.  Would 
not that mean that Harry lost in book 7, since Morten Harket is still 
very much alive?"

You are trying to precipitate *another* discussion about Morten 
Harket?  You do know what list this is?? You do know what happened 
last time we got going on that subject???

Dear me.

Al
'If anybody wants me, I'll be under the sofa'





From ftah3 at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 17 16:05:51 2001
From: ftah3 at yahoo.com (ftah3)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:05:51 -0000
Subject: Fanfiction and sex... slash vs. het
In-Reply-To: <9ve508+1o3i@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vl54v+j0bp@eGroups.com>

I hadn't noticed the double standard (spicey het = trash, spicy slash 
= erotica), as I've never written sex-fic.  But, as a reader...well,

> Questions:
> 
> 1)  Why do you think this double standard exists?  Is it reflective 
> of the quality of the writing or the maturity level/personal 
squicks 
> of the audience?

For me, it's a reflection of the quality and maturity level of the 
writer.  I will say that I have a penchant to label sex-fic (of any 
sexual inclination) 'trash' possibly more quickly than most because 
A) there are very, very, very, very, very (very!) few PWPs that I 
enjoy.  Sex-fic just to be sex-fic is usually incredibly boring to 
me.  And also B) whenever sex appears in a fic, the writer has to be 
tremendously good at describing it as well as making it integral to 
the plot...or else I'll burst out laughing.  Sorry, but references 
to, say, a "pike" as enhanced by inane lascivious 
descriptors...rotflmao.  And repetitive scenes/descriptions get 
boring fast.

> 2)  Is there a way to write het fanfiction, R or higher, that 
escapes 
> this stigma?

Oh yes.  Ooooooooh yes.  I've a friend who wrote both het & slash in 
another fandom...the first ever piece of het-sex I liked was one in 
which she managed to couple a female character with 6 different men 
(in her dream/fantasies) in 6 different ways dependent on what the 
female character liked about each different male character...the 
towel-o-meter (which measures how many towels it took to wipe up the 
drool) went through the roof.  I'd rate the story somewhere between R 
and NC-17, and it was definitely erotic, not trashy.

> 3)  In your opinion, should there even *be* NC-17 Harry Potter 
> fanfiction, slash *or* het?

On one hand, what will be will be.  On the other (my own personal) 
hand, bleck.  

Firstly, kid-sex (i.e. underage) is disgusting to me.  Secondly, any 
sex-fic which contains grown up versions of current kid characters 
would be *extremely* off-putting to me simply because it would color 
my view of the characters in their current state.  (I don't really 
want to be reading a Draco-Harry bit in the books and suddenly have 
an image of them, er, shall we say, discovering their intimate 
feelings for each other; ditto, even, Hermy/Ron dialogue.  That's 
just me.)  Thirdly, imagining any of the adult characters doing of 
The Sex just isn't someplace I want to go right now.  This is mainly 
because the reason I enjoy the books is not for their 
(imagined/possible) erotic content.  And if (IF ~ highly unlikely, 
but if) I were to read HP fanfic, it would be specifically because I 
can't wait for book 5 and I'm in desperate need of fiction that 
*highlights what I like about the original books*.  If that makes 
sense.  Also, in line with that 'thirdly,' the 'ship potential in the 
books is only mildly interesting to me.  I have vague notions that I 
think Harry/Ginny would be cute, eventually, and that Hermy/Ron is 
possible.  Beyond that...I don't care.  I love Harry's 'hero 
journey,' and the adventures he has with Ron, Hermione & others.  I 
love meeting new characters and finding out what, if any, connection 
they have with Harry's 'journey' and outside of that finding out 
about their quirks.  The love lives of any of them ~ eh.  Whatever.  
If Rowling crafts it as integral to her plot, but doesn't spend a lot 
of time on mushy stuff, could be good.  

Interesting topic!  

Mahoney




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Mon Dec 17 11:32:26 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:32:26 EST5EDT
Subject: Cute HP personality test
Message-ID: <1C7236979F4@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

This is a cute little test to see what characters you are 
most like in the HP world.  My top five were:

Harry
Dumbledore
Fred/George Weasley (wheeeeee!)
Hermione (....whatever)
Lupin (I knew we were meant for each other)


http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=hpotterch
ars  

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

Adult Ralphie: Meanwhile, I struggled for exactly the 
right BB gun hint. It had to be firm, but subtle.

Young Ralphie: Flick says he saw some grizzly bears 
near Polaski's candy store!

Adult Ralphie: They looked at me as if I had lobsters 
crawling out of my ears. I could tell I was in imminent 
danger of overplaying my hand.
                           - A Christmas Story
Happy Holidays!



From klaatu at primenet.com  Mon Dec 17 16:42:12 2001
From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:42:12 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sounds like a cross-stitch
In-Reply-To: <38850774.69844185.6E93A4F5@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <MABBJPGEHBDBAKHGIBPOOEGBENAA.klaatu@primenet.com>

Looks like an acrostic!  "Hermione Loves Ron" indeed.  There used to be an
old old song called "Mother" which started out.... "M is for the million
things she gave me..." or something like that.  "Put them all together, they
spell MOTHER..."

Very clever David -- now I'm going to have to read every one of your e-mails
on two levels, just in case you have any more hidden messages.

SML

-----Original Message-----
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net [mailto:dfrankiswork at netscape.net]
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 4:34 AM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sounds like a cross-stitch


Here is a new style of post that I have devised.  Each sentence adds a small
amount to the total message, in a completely democratic fashion.  Really,
it's not that hard to follow.  Many who are skilled at reading the subtext,
however, may have trouble.  Initial information is followed by mere padding
at each stage.  One clue I can give is that I am talking about Hermione
here.  No doubt some will give up in disgust.  Every astute reader will
realise that blankness will follow this paragraph.

Let me try to make myself more clear. Only loves should come out of the
screen for you here.  Veer not on to the next post as I will soon be done.
Effort will, I'm sure, be rewarded.  Singular meaning is intended, and a
third person implied, although the content concerns only two.

Regrettably, many H/Hers will see this post as a mere graffito.  One-liner
though it essentially is, it should be clear that I am now speaking of Ron.
Now my message ends.

David
--




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From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com  Mon Dec 17 17:26:15 2001
From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:26:15 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sounds like a cross-stitch
References: <MABBJPGEHBDBAKHGIBPOOEGBENAA.klaatu@primenet.com>
Message-ID: <003b01c1871f$eea15150$e500a8c0@shasta>

> Looks like an acrostic!  "Hermione Loves Ron" indeed.  There used to be an
> old old song called "Mother" which started out.... "M is for the million
> things she gave me..." or something like that.  "Put them all together,
they
> spell MOTHER..."

Aaaaaaagh!

Isn't there a rule against doing things like that? There's gotta be. I spent
15 !#$%-ing minutes reading that %$#!-ing post and finally gave up, assuming
that David was having trouble with his psychiatrist.

Now *I* am.

BAAAAAGGHGHGHGH!!!!!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, looking for something heavy and pointy
to throw, also laughing like a hyena.)
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been
bravery...."




From sinead at bu.edu  Mon Dec 17 18:28:31 2001
From: sinead at bu.edu (sineadsiobhan)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:28:31 -0000
Subject: Cute HP personality test
In-Reply-To: <1C7236979F4@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9vldgf+rp1o@eGroups.com>

I had taken this before... almost a year before. I think I got Ron 
Weasley as #1 a year ago. That was before I decided to turn myself 
around in terms of school and interacting more with people over the 
summer. 

Now that Rachel posted the link, (thank you) I decided to take it 
again... I'm not quite sure what to think of this: 

1) Dumbledore
2) Hagrid
3) Harry
4) Lupin
5) Ron 

How did I go from Ron to Dumbledore in a year? Have I aged that 
greatly? 

Sinead 





From heathernmoore at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 17 19:09:13 2001
From: heathernmoore at yahoo.com (heathernmoore)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:09:13 -0000
Subject: Cute HP personality test
In-Reply-To: <9vldgf+rp1o@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vlfsp+cs5r@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "sineadsiobhan" <sinead at b...> wrote:

 Being a monstrously inconsistent person (my personality is more of 
an Anne Frank-esque "little jumble of contradictions" than an 
archetype), I was bemused by these results:

# 1 Rubeus Hagrid 
# 2 Hermione Granger 
# 3 Professor Minerva McGonagall 
# 4 Harry Potter 
# 5 Professor Remus Lupin 
# 6 Sirius Black 
# 7 Professor Severus Snape 
# 8 Ron Weasley 
# 9 Professor Albus Dumbledore 
# 10 Neville Longbottom 
# 11 Professor Alastor Moody 
# 12 Lord Voldemort 
# 13 Draco Malfoy 
# 14 Professor Gilderoy Lockhart 
# 15 Fred/George Weasley 


 Nice little across-the-board selection of baddies and goodies there!





From adanaleigh at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 17 19:41:15 2001
From: adanaleigh at hotmail.com (Adana Robinson)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:41:15 
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Cute HP personality test
Message-ID: <F105f3sllNY30kkZIhT00006e5a@hotmail.com>




>>
>--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "sineadsiobhan" <sinead at b...> wrote:
>
>  Being a monstrously inconsistent person (my personality is more of
>an Anne Frank-esque "little jumble of contradictions" than an
>archetype), I was bemused by these results:


I always thought my personality was basically consistent--maybe just a 
little frazzled around the edges at the full moon--and I consider myself the 
archetypal Hermione, "annoying bushy-haired library-oriented but very smart 
and loyal female".  (Okay, maybe a little conceited too!)

Imagine my surprise at my top two results:

1.  Severus Snape
2.  Albus Dumbledore

Now there are two wildly different types!

Hermione didn't come in until fourth, and Prof. McGonagall (who I think 
Hermione is going to resemble when she grows up) fifth.

Adana (who still doesn't think Snape is sexy, but now has a good reason for 
her intense interest in his character)

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 17 21:32:07 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:32:07 -0000
Subject: Survivor Snape
In-Reply-To: <9vjjqg+i423@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vlo8n+p5gd@eGroups.com>

Heather asked:

>   May I join the party? I'll bring Snape and we can organize the 
> weenie roast and host Survivor: Friendship Island.

Sure thing, as long as you're not trying to fix Snape up with anyone 
(this includes dead people, yes, even nice young witches with dark 
red hair).  ::attempts Ricardo Montalban impression::  Welcome to 
Friendship Isle!

Amy
who isn't sure she trusts ol' Severus to be an impartial host . . . 
we'd better check the snake pit periodically to make sure Harry hasn't 
"fallen" in




From heathernmoore at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 17 21:35:24 2001
From: heathernmoore at yahoo.com (heathernmoore)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:35:24 -0000
Subject: Interesting Nazi/"Grindlewald" parallels
Message-ID: <9vloes+qh3j@eGroups.com>

I took this off a website about the history of alpinism:

"To stand at the small village of Kleine Scheidegg near Grindelwald 
in Switzerland is a rare experience. The North Face of the Eiger 
smirks thousands of metres above, rarely without cloud. The most 
imperious of Europe's north faces, it became the theatre of pre-World 
War II nationalism. 

Europe watched as teams from Germany, Austria and France suffered and 
died on the face, which is raked by rockfalls and avalanches. 

Finally, in 1938, a team of four German climbers succeeded where so 
many others had failed. The Nazis proclaimed it as a great victory, 
but the climbers themselves were bewildered by the nationalism. The 
mountains would feel the force of nationalism for many more years, as 
the race for the Himalayan giants consumed the wealthier nations in 
the 1950s. Almost all the huge Asian mountains were climbed using 
siege tactics, where vast teams of climbers and porters establish and 
stock camps for a final push to the summit."



  So Grindlewald, Switzerland was the site of a major "cultural 
victory" which the Nazis opportunistically took credit for during the 
run up to WWII.  During the 40s, it was also a prominent resort town 
which very likely was enjoyed by high-ups in the Third Reich and as 
such was involved in Switzerland's money-laundering of Nazi funds. 
Nazi-sympathiser Heinreich Harrar (of SEVEN YEARS IN TIBET fame) was 
an enthusiast of the Eiger Peak and the associated villages of 
Grindlewald and Interlachen. 

  We might speculate that the Dark Wizard Grindlewald was a supporter 
of the Nazi Regime, but not directly involved and instead did most of 
his work behind the scenes. This would make Dumbledore's defeat of 
him even more interesting if it involved a lot of intitial detective 
work to even sniff out his involvement.


   More importantly, though, and less prosaically, the village of 
Grindlewald is a stop on most of the same touristy jaunts through 
Germany/Austria/and Switzerland  which also feature Dachau and 
Auschwitz -- Jo may have taken a fancy to the name having run across 
it doing background research.




From damsel_since_ten at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 17 23:20:30 2001
From: damsel_since_ten at yahoo.com (damsel_since_ten)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:20:30 -0000
Subject: Welcome to Friendship Isle
In-Reply-To: <9vjjqg+i423@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vluju+8v8d@eGroups.com>

Heather wrote: 
>   May I join the party? I'll bring Snape and we can organize the 
> weenie roast and host Survivor: Friendship Island.

aren't their competitions on Survivor: Friendship Island? Voting off 
people?

Team Alohomora and Team Wingardium Leviosa try out their skills of 
camping. Eating blast ended skrewts, no less, for one competition. 
Trying, argh, muggle ways of living. 


safe on her ship, 

Sinead 





From virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 18 00:31:25 2001
From: virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com (virtualworldofhp)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:31:25 -0000
Subject: Welcome to Friendship Isle
In-Reply-To: <9vluju+8v8d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vm2ot+5s8b@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "damsel_since_ten"
<damsel_since_ten at y...> wrote:
> Heather wrote: 
> >   May I join the party? I'll bring Snape and we can organize the 
> > weenie roast and host Survivor: Friendship Island.
> 
> aren't their competitions on Survivor: Friendship Island? Voting off 
> people?
> 
> Team Alohomora and Team Wingardium Leviosa try out their skills of 
> camping. Eating blast ended skrewts, no less, for one competition. 
> Trying, argh, muggle ways of living. 
> 
> 
> safe on her ship, 
> 
> Sinead

*wonders if mutinies are possible on the ships, and wonders as to the
hazards of hurricanes*

I think I'll just rent a good SCUBA outfit and drift halfway
inbetween. :-D

-Megan




From virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 18 00:34:17 2001
From: virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com (virtualworldofhp)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:34:17 -0000
Subject: Welcome to Friendship Isle
In-Reply-To: <9vluju+8v8d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vm2u9+6rm3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "damsel_since_ten"
<damsel_since_ten at y...> wrote:
> Heather wrote: 
> >   May I join the party? I'll bring Snape and we can organize the 
> > weenie roast and host Survivor: Friendship Island.
> 
> aren't their competitions on Survivor: Friendship Island? Voting off 
> people?
> 
> Team Alohomora and Team Wingardium Leviosa try out their skills of 
> camping. Eating blast ended skrewts, no less, for one competition. 
> Trying, argh, muggle ways of living. 
> 
> 
> safe on her ship, 
> 
> Sinead

*wonders if mutinies are possible on the ships, and wonders as to the
hazards of hurricanes*

I think I'll just rent a good SCUBA outfit and drift halfway
inbetween. :-D

-Megan




From CollectiveSIAS at aol.com  Tue Dec 18 00:58:49 2001
From: CollectiveSIAS at aol.com (CollectiveSIAS at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:58:49 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Cute HP personality test
Message-ID: <13e.665e224.294feec9@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/17/01 2:11:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
heathernmoore at yahoo.com writes:


> I was bemused by these results:


As was I .....
Hmm something to think about :)


Professor Alastor Moody 
Professor Minerva McGonagall 
Hermione Granger 
Lord Voldemort 
Sirius Black 
.....


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From bricken at tenbit.pl  Tue Dec 18 01:04:15 2001
From: bricken at tenbit.pl (Ev vy)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 02:04:15 +0100
Subject: Cute HP personality test
References: <13e.665e224.294feec9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <013201c1875f$eca0f960$3409f1d5@OSLII>

heathernmoore at yahoo.com writes:
> 
> > I was bemused by these results:
> 
> As was I .....
> Hmm something to think about :)
> 
> 
> Professor Alastor Moody 
> Professor Minerva McGonagall 
> Hermione Granger 
> Lord Voldemort 
> Sirius Black 
> .....


<delurk>Bemused? Bemused??? And what can I say? I took two tests, and here are my results:
# 1 Voldemort 
# 2 Draco Malfoy 
# 3 Severus Snape 
# 4 Sirius Black 
# 5 Remus Lupin 

# 1 Lord Voldemort 
# 2 Professor Severus Snape 
# 3 Professor Minerva McGonagall 
# 4 Draco Malfoy 
# 5 Professor Alastor Moody 

Huh? I need a shrink, I think.

Ev vy

PS. I didn't want such results!
</delurk>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From heathernmoore at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 18 02:06:48 2001
From: heathernmoore at yahoo.com (heathernmoore)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 02:06:48 -0000
Subject: Welcome to Friendship Isle
In-Reply-To: <9vluju+8v8d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vm8bo+t8me@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "damsel_since_ten" <damsel_since_ten at y...> wrote:
> Heather wrote: 
> >   May I join the party? I'll bring Snape and we can organize the 
> > weenie roast and host Survivor: Friendship Island.
> 
> aren't their competitions on Survivor: Friendship Island? Voting off 
> people?
> 
> Team Alohomora and Team Wingardium Leviosa try out their skills of 
> camping. Eating blast ended skrewts, no less, for one competition. 
> Trying, argh, muggle ways of living. 
> 
> 
> safe on her ship, 
> 
> Sinead




 AH, but you see, Snape and I will be the hosts of the game, and thus cannot be voted off the island. Rest assured, I will fix the game so that all the other women are voted off FIRST, and then I will have all the lovely and unlovely nonfictional and fictional men to myself.  

Uhm, all in the spirit of dispassionate, intellectual comaraderie, of course. 

Really!





From CollectiveSIAS at aol.com  Tue Dec 18 02:08:29 2001
From: CollectiveSIAS at aol.com (CollectiveSIAS at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:08:29 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Cute HP personality shrink needed
Message-ID: <64.177c51bd.294fff1d@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/17/01 8:07:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
bricken at tenbit.pl writes:


> Huh? I need a shrink, I think.
> 
> Ev vy

Well if you find one let me know I could use a good one also :)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From catlady at wicca.net  Tue Dec 18 04:21:51 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 04:21:51 -0000
Subject: Cute HP personality test
In-Reply-To: <013201c1875f$eca0f960$3409f1d5@OSLII>
Message-ID: <9vmg8v+5c6o@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Ev vy" <bricken at t...> wrote:
> heathernmoore at y... writes:
> > 
> > > I was bemused by these results:
> > As was I .....
> > Hmm something to think about :)

> <delurk>Bemused? Bemused??? And what can I say?  
> Huh? I need a shrink, I think.

That test is excessively inaccurate. Maybe some of the clever people 
on this list could invent a better one.




From starling823 at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 18 12:46:26 2001
From: starling823 at yahoo.com (Starling)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:46:26 -0500
Subject: HP computer game - help!  i'm stuck!
References: <1008668505.943.14376.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <001601c187c2$0407a6a0$c574e280@cc.binghamton.edu>

Hey all

My flatmate received the SS computer game as a Christmas present from her
boyfriend, and she and I spent three merry hours last night not studying for
finals as we attempted to lob just enough Wizard Crackers at Malfoy's head.

We can't get past that! :-p.  If anyone's tried it, and managed to get past
that -- any tricks? Suggestions?  Good moments to bash the twitchy ferret?
<g>

I personally am now a big fan of the flying lessons in this game.  It's the
closest I'll get to any actual flying lessons, and although my flatmate's
laptop is a bit tough to navigate with, it's a great deal of fun to go
swishing around Hogwarts on Harry's Nimbus. :-)

I am going to attempt to study now...even though I can hear the game calling
me from down the hall...

Abbie, looking for earplugs so she can study free of the call of the game --
hear it?  "Play....play...."  I've studied too much.  I'm loosing
it.....yeesh...

starling823 at yahoo.com
" 'Not to worry,' she said.  'All you have to do is walk straight at the
barrier between platforms nine and ten.' "
Sorcerer's Stone


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Tue Dec 18 12:28:41 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 23:28:41 +1100
Subject: Sounds like a cross-stitch
Message-ID: <002001c187c5$0e01f180$a72adccb@price>

Grinning merrily, I shake my head.  Only in HP fandom could such games arise.  Or perhaps in Lewis Carroll fandom.  David is, after all, a self-professed mathematician!

Order of the Phoenix is fading further and further into the future.  Now the best guess is September next year, we need whatever distractions we can concoct.  Eccentric shipping theories, word games... even bizarre theories involving Voldemorten Harket!

Do we, perhaps have other Lewis Carroll fans in our midst?  Although very different from HP, there are similarities. Vaguely similar playfulness from the two authors.  I'm quite a fan myself.  Dedicated myself to memorising Jabberwocky and The Walrus and the Carpenter in my teens.

Tabouli.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Tue Dec 18 13:07:38 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 00:07:38 +1100
Subject: Squick, salacious fics, a new guest for Friendship Isle...
Message-ID: <002101c187c5$0efdb6a0$a72adccb@price>

What a wonderful verb is "to squick".  Did you coin it yourself, Ebony, or is it an established representative of the English tongue?  (squick squick, said Wormtail, warding off Nagini with his silver paw...)

Mahoney:
> On one hand, what will be will be.  On the other (my own personal) 
hand, bleck.  Firstly, kid-sex (i.e. underage) is disgusting to me.

I'm pretty neutral on the subject of salacious fanfics, slash or het.  What I find interesting in any fiction is how the characters get to the point of having sex, not the sexual mechanics themselves (unless particularly relevant to the plot for some reason).  As for the underage sex can o' worms, I have mixed thoughts.  As I ranted a few days ago, I'd argue that the 'age of consent' is an arbitrary beast which is only the government's guess at how old people are likely to be cluey enough to do the deed, so to speak.

There's no argument about *pre-pubescent* sex (undeniably repugnant and almost certainly abusive and exploitative, thought I've heard anthropologists have tracked down societies where this is just part of play and apparently does no harm), but sex which occurs after puberty but before the "age of consent" is a greyer area.  If we avoid the issues of "morality" for the moment, many 13 or 14 year olds are capable of feeling sexual desire, and could therefore want and enjoy sex (as many do, research shows us)... the problem is more a power issue: are they old enough to say no if they want to, are they so immature and vulnerable to exploitation and manipulation and bullying that we should legislate them away from sex for a few more years?  The consensus seems to be yes, so we've set up this age of consent concept.

I dunno.  The messages about sex in "The West" are all-consuming and so contradictory.  If we set the media up to tell everyone that sex is the most important thing in life and you can't be happy or successful unless you're sexy and have a sexual partner or ten, and then tell 12 year olds ooo, but you're Not Allowed to do any of that for at least six years, and preferably not until you're married, is anyone surprised that kids are goaded into experimentation and crop tops and start dieting and developing crushes younger and younger?  Rebellion is COOL, and forbidden fruits are tempting indeed...

Amy Z:
> Sure thing, as long as you're not trying to fix Snape up with anyone 
(this includes dead people, yes, even nice young witches with dark 
red hair).  ::attempts Ricardo Montalban impression::  Welcome to 
Friendship Isle!

Can I bring Tom Bombadil?  I though Snape would like to meet him (maybe Tom can write him a few cheery songs to help him get over Lily...)

Tabouli.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From frantyck at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 18 13:15:43 2001
From: frantyck at yahoo.com (frantyck)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:15:43 -0000
Subject: HP computer game - help!  i'm stuck!
In-Reply-To: <001601c187c2$0407a6a0$c574e280@cc.binghamton.edu>
Message-ID: <9vnfhv+5lke@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Starling" <starling823 at y...> wrote:
we attempted to lob just enough Wizard Crackers at Malfoy's head.
> 
> We can't get past that! :-p.  If anyone's tried it, and managed to 
get past
> that -- any tricks? Suggestions?  Good moments to bash the twitchy 
ferret?


Aha! Ha-ha! Ha! I know just how you feel. I skipped a deadline on a 
research paper to get past that incredibly annoying stage.

It's much easier the second time around. You-Harry have to rush 
toward the cracker just as it begins to swell. If you rush straight 
at it, *once it has landed*, You-Harry will pick it up. Hit the 
space bar right away and you'll lob the cracker. Usually, You-Harry 
will miss Malfoy, but soon you'll be picking up and throwing back 
nearly all the crackers. You need four, I think, to explode close to 
Malfoy to do the job.

Perhaps the game is set to trip you up at this point the first time 
and then allow you to pass the second. I had a hard time with the 
gnomes too, who kept mooning me and completely ignoring my deadly 
Flipendo. Second time 'round, it was a breeze.

Well, good luck! (with your finals...)

I need help, too, with the flying part, where Harry must chase 
Malfoy around that course (part-tunnel, part-woods, part-Hogwarts 
exterior) and knock him off his broom to get the Remembrall. How on 
earth does one do that? The less you bump into things, the closer 
you get to Malfoy, but not even a perfect round gets me close enough 
to bump him. What's the deal? Help, someone.

Thanks in advance.

Rrishi




From pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it  Tue Dec 18 13:50:41 2001
From: pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it (pigwidgeon37)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:50:41 -0000
Subject: Voldemort's ultimate downfall (long)
Message-ID: <9vnhji+7on3@eGroups.com>

Hi all,
as I suppose I would be flamed and howler-ed to death if I posted 
this on te main list, I'll just put it here, hopefully for your 
amusement. It ties in very well with Tabouli's colourful theories 
about Featherless Phoenixes etc. (It's a piece of a small ficlet I 
just finished, but never fear, it's neither slash nor OOC, just fun).
And, of course, dedicated to Tabouli.
The person who speaks is Snape, the other one is a Muggle called 
Charlotte who has just given him some veritaserum diluted in orange 
juice:

Leaning back comfortably in his chair, Snape said: "Voldemort's 
downfall? Oh that wasn't as difficult as it seemed." 
He paused, swallowed, and looked at Charlotte. "I didn't want to say 
that. How on earth
?" Then the coin dropped. "You went through my 
pockets? How dare you, you
 How much did you give me?"
"Five drops", Charlotte said, grinning like mad, "How long will the 
effect last?"
"About an hour, I think.- You goddamned hag, I'll jinx you for this!" 
She put a soothing hand on his arm. "Later, later. Don't worry, I'm 
not going to ask you any embarrassing questions- if you behave, that 
is", she added wickedly. "Now just tell me about Voldemort. What was 
the mission Dumbledore entrusted to you? Was it dangerous?"
"Not dangerous, no, just a bit iffy. There's this mad scientist type, 
Jeroboam Twiggle, who back in the old days used to work for the Dark 
Lord. After Voldemort's first downfall, he got caught and was taken 
to Azkaban. For once, the ministry was smart enough to see a little 
further than the tips of their noses, and so they didn't throw him to 
the Dementors, but instead let him continue his research, under close 
observation, of course, but anyway. For Twiggle, the only thing that 
counted was his work- he didn't mind whether it was for Voldemort or 
for the ministry. He had invented the first time turner, which was 
already brilliant, but now he was working on an updated version that 
would allow to travel not only into the past, but into the future as 
well. Rumours had it that Twiggle had achieved his goal just a few 
days before Voldemort came back. Of course, both sides were more than 
interested in this device and so, in order to get it before hell 
broke loose, I had to go to Azkaban and retrieve it, before either 
the ministry people or the Death Eaters did. I leave it to your 
imagination that this wasn't exactly an easy thing to do."
Charlotte was listening breathlessly. She was so concentrated on 
Snape's narrative that she blindly grabbed for her coffee cup and 
didn't realize that she had taken the honey pot instead. Snape 
sniggered when she put it back with a disgusted look, after she had 
taken a large gulp of honey. Wiping her mouth and washing down the 
honey with some coffee- this time for real- she said: "And what 
happened then? Did you use it?"
"Of course we did. Black and I-"
"Black? Did you really have to work with him?"
"Yes, and I didn't enjoy a single second of it. As I was saying, 
Black and I went ten years ahead and did a bit of reading."
"That was all?"
"What do you mean by `That was all'? It wasn't without risks, you 
know! After all we didn't know what we would encounter there, which 
included the possibility of Voldemort having taken over Hogwarts, so 
we would have materialized straight into his headquarters."
"Which obviously didn't happen."
"Fortunately not. May I have some scrambled eggs, please?" He should 
have known better than to be so polite, for Charlotte immediately 
recognized it was a mere strategy to gain time. 
"You'll get them when you'll have finished telling me", she said 
therefore, "No use trying to eat yourself out of trouble. So, you did 
a bit of reading. What did you find out?"
"Well, we came upon an updated tome of "The Rise and Fall Of the Dark 
Arts", where everything was described in minute detail. To make it 
short: After Voldemort had reigned for five years, sowing death and 
destruction, a small resistance group finally found a clue in 
Nostradamus's prophecies. It said: /Serpent terrible tiendra Albion/ 
Flammes vertes de ses clercs font hecatombe/ Le chien avec son ennemi 
en union/ et doulce grenouille le mettront en tombe/. Fortunately, 
they had already worked it out for us- we only had to copy what it 
meant: The dog and his enemy were Sirius and myself, and the `doulce 
grenouille' was a chocolate frog. The problem was giving it to him. 
We knew that we would have to use Polyjuice Potion, but who should we 
turn into? I mean, even if we had turned into Death Eaters, it would 
have been quite out of the question to go to one of their meetings 
and hand round a box of Chocolate frogs. And then it was Potter to 
have the brilliant idea- although it was him, I have to admit that it 
was really, really good: He remembered that Sirius had been a first 
rate Quidditch Chaser who had never missed his target. So I changed 
into Lucius Malfoy, Sirius simply remained Sirius, I pretended to 
have captured him and brought him to Voldemort. He had stuffed as 
many chocolate frogs as possible into his sleeve and when we stood 
before the Dark Lord, he started to wince and to plead in the most 
tiresome manner, falling on his knees and begging for his life. Very 
good piece of acting, indeed. I exchanged a look with Voldemort and, 
without breaking the eye contact, pretended to stifle a huge yawn. 
Now the residue of human characteristics left inside that disgusting 
body is certainly minimal, but he still has reflexes, and so he, too, 
had to yawn. Fortunately, Sirius hit his aim once again and popped a 
chocolate frog into Voldemort's mouth. He gasped, coughed, spluttered 
and made a lot of other  revolting noises and then, after a few 
minutes of that horrid display of dying sounds, he was finally dead."

You see- not to wonder that book 5 isn't yet ready, or do you think 
JKR could write THAT?

Susanna/pigwidgeon37




From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com  Tue Dec 18 14:18:24 2001
From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 15:18:24 +0100
Subject: Lewis Carroll, James Herriot, A cross-stitches, etc.
References: <002001c187c5$0e01f180$a72adccb@price>
Message-ID: <003101c187ce$db34d510$e500a8c0@shasta>

> Do we, perhaps have other Lewis Carroll fans in our
> midst?  Although very different from HP, there are
> similarities. Vaguely similar playfulness from the two
> authors.  I'm quite a fan myself.  Dedicated myself to
> memorising Jabberwocky and The Walrus and the
> Carpenter in my teens.

Hmm. I suppose it's about time I gave LC another chance. My parents bought
me a copy of Alice when I was nine or ten - and told me it was a lovely
fantasy story about Kings and Mirrors and Magical Rabbits and Adventure
Galore. I read it - according to that interpretive grid - and thought it was
the dumbest book in history. It's still on my shelf, so maybe it deserves a
second chance ...

[Have you all also ever ruined your enjoyment of a good book by reading it
according to the rules of the wrong genre? (Could it be that we do this with
HP occasionally?) I suppose children are particularly at risk - and
particularly with such tricky books as Alice. (Perhaps the next step in
perverse literary enjoyment  is to *intentionally* read books according to
the wrong set of rules ... )]

At about the same time my mother tried to convince me to read James Harriot,
which she billed as a beautiful book about a wonderful man who loved taking
care of cuddly animals - or somesuch. Since I'd just had my LC experience, I
refused. Fortunately, someone gave me a copy years later, and I discovered
the hilarious James Harriot *I* know and love.

Baaaaaa!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, who, btw, thought David's post was
hilarious - all the more because it stumped him! - and is afraid his
outburst could be taken as real outrage. Who would also be curious to know
how Sister Mary managed the miracle of decoding it!)
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been
bravery...."




From firefightermichelle at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 18 14:48:06 2001
From: firefightermichelle at yahoo.com (firefightermichelle)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 14:48:06 -0000
Subject: Kiwi Kids and Friendship Isle
Message-ID: <9vnkv6+kc40@eGroups.com>

I am a Kiwi kid thrown into a foreign land at a school-age.  Well, my 
foreign land was the States ... but they don't speak english here 
<grin>  I was in Standard 1 when I left NZ and I had just turned 7.  
When I got over here, they wanted to put me into 1st grade, because 
of my age.  Then they realized I was ahead of all the 1st grade 
material and thankfully put me into 2nd grade.  Of coruse, I was 
mostly ahead of the second grade stuff too, but that's beside the 
point.  I actually hated most of elementary school in the states, 
because everyone made fun of my accent.  Bastards.  But I'm ok with 
it all now :)

And now ... the Friendship Isle theme song (with apologies to 
Gilligan and company):

Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale,
a tale of an awesome trip,
that started from this SHIPping port,
because of a nitty pick.

The mate was a  cute, red-haired boy,
the skipper had a scar,
5 passengers set sail that day 
to get SHIPs afar ... to get SHIPs afar.

The banter started getting rough,
the not-a-SHIP was tossed,
if not for the courage of the fearless crew,
the no-SHIP would be lost ... the no-SHIP would be lost.

The craft set ground on the shore of this,
uncharted desert isle with:
Amy, and Amber too
Tabouli and Professor Snape,
Hermione, the Boy Who Lived and his Wheezie,

Here on Friendship Isle!!!



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Michelle :) <--- who is going back to being a dumb firefighter now :)




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Tue Dec 18 14:54:37 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 14:54:37 -0000
Subject: Of why the sea is boiling hot...
In-Reply-To: <002001c187c5$0e01f180$a72adccb@price>
Message-ID: <9vnlbd+mqmh@eGroups.com>

Tabouli wrote:
> Dedicated myself to memorising Jabberwocky and The Walrus and the 
Carpenter in my teens.
> 
And are you on track?  Will you manage it by the time you're twenty?

David, who certainly won't go to that island if Bombadil is there, 
and anyway it's only a matter of time before someone turns up with 
their 8 favourite records and a book and bores the pants off 
everybody.




From ftah3 at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 18 15:08:13 2001
From: ftah3 at yahoo.com (ftah3)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 15:08:13 -0000
Subject: Lewis Carroll, James Herriot, A cross-stitches, etc.
In-Reply-To: <003101c187ce$db34d510$e500a8c0@shasta>
Message-ID: <9vnm4t+qsdn@eGroups.com>

Aberforths_Goat wrote:
> [Have you all also ever ruined your enjoyment of a good book by 
reading it
> according to the rules of the wrong genre? 

Yep.  Asimov.  I went into an Asimov book thinking "whee, Star Trek 
in print!"  Doh.

>(Could it be that we do this with
> HP occasionally?) 

Do you mean, do we attempt to hold HP to standards that don't apply?  
I think some people do, really.  For example, a film critic on CNN 
the other day extolled the virtues of LotR, and ended his reviewed by 
saying, I think he thought quite cleverly, "It makes Harry Potter 
look like Little Orphan Annie."

Well, no ****, Sherlock!  Harry Potter *is* Little Orphan Annie!  

It's a movie (and book) in which kids are the focus, and the 
perspective always stays within the realm of a youthful voice.  

Granted that JKR uses quite a lot of myth/lit references, weaves 
increasingly complex stories, and touches on 'grown-up' issues; and 
adults can interpret, speculate, analyse and pick apart to the great 
stimulation of their mature intelligence.  

Still, at the core of Harry Potter, Kids Rule.  And that *does* make 
it a different 'genre' than, for example, Lord of the Rings.  Imho, 
expecting differently misses the point entirely, and doesn't give 
Harry Potter the justice it deserves.

Interestingly, and on this subject, the neighbor kid (age 12) who got 
me into Harry Potter had gone from Robert Jordan to Harry Potter, 
loved them both, then thought he'd read Tolkein...and hated it.  
Couldn't get into Lord of the Rings. He was expecting something quick-
moving and exciting, and got a bit more dry and slow, with geneaology 
lists to boot.  :-P  However, he's looking forward to the movie, 
because "the boring parts won't be in it" (he says).

Mahoney




From keegan at mcn.org  Tue Dec 18 15:53:49 2001
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:53:49 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Lewis Carroll, James Herriot
In-Reply-To: <003101c187ce$db34d510$e500a8c0@shasta>
References: <002001c187c5$0e01f180$a72adccb@price>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20011218073924.00afba60@mail.mcn.org>

At 03:18 PM 12/18/01 +0100, the glorious goat wrote:
>[Have you all also ever ruined your enjoyment of a good book by reading it
>according to the rules of the wrong genre?

Oh.  Yeah.  Reading mysteries as mysteries is not worth it.  Read them for 
the characters and appreciate the work the author has done to make it a 
mystery secondarily.  I no longer try to read books as anything other than 
stories.  Try it on non fiction and see if the author can actually write!

I love Lewis Carrol but I read it on my own.  He is very tweaked.  I 
recommend reading the books on a rainy day with plenty of tea and something 
weird on the stereo.  (Hmm.  That shows my age.  CD player.  There, that 
works better.)

I was forced to read the LotR trilogy many years ago by adoring fans.  I 
dunno.  It was ok.  I had already read a ton of derivative fiction and 
liked the other stuff much better.  I am now married to a complete LotR fan 
who is amazing me every day by reciting huge bits of it.  (He has a near 
photographic memory and isn't afraid to bore you with it.  sigh.   Well, he 
does put up with my various obsessions and I have trained him to pick up 
his socks and we're nearing the 20 year anniversary...)  I suspect that I 
would have liked the books a lot better if no one had preached them at me 
first.

James Herriot's books are lovely.  I love animal stories and his were so 
gentle and sweet.  It helped that he also included the ooogey stuff and the 
funny locals.  I have suggested ever-so-carefully to my husband that he 
might want to read them.  He's shown no interest thus far and I'm trying 
not to shove them at him.  (And he's ignoring the fact that I haven't been 
able to reread the first book of the LotR trilogy and it's sat on my night 
stand for months 3/4s read.  I have ODed on the songs and am not in the 
least bit in love with any of the characters.)

So, how do you influence folks to read your favorite books?

Catherine in California
(How many Catherines are there on the list?  Must be at least three, if not 
four of us.)



From absinthe at mad.scientist.com  Tue Dec 18 16:00:57 2001
From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milztoday)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:00:57 -0000
Subject: Lewis Carroll, James Herriot, A cross-stitches, etc.
In-Reply-To: <003101c187ce$db34d510$e500a8c0@shasta>
Message-ID: <9vnp7q+cfqs@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Aberforth's Goat" 
<Aberforths_Goat at Y...> wrote:
> > Do we, perhaps have other Lewis Carroll fans in our
> > midst?  Although very different from HP, there are
> > similarities. Vaguely similar playfulness from the two
> > authors.  I'm quite a fan myself.  Dedicated myself to
> > memorising Jabberwocky and The Walrus and the
> > Carpenter in my teens.
> 
> Hmm. I suppose it's about time I gave LC another chance. My parents 
bought
> me a copy of Alice when I was nine or ten - and told me it was a 
lovely
> fantasy story about Kings and Mirrors and Magical Rabbits and 
Adventure
> Galore. 

I didn't like Alice either....maybe it's because I read it for a book 
report. But I didn't "get it" then.

> 
> At about the same time my mother tried to convince me to read James 
Harriot,
> which she billed as a beautiful book about a wonderful man who 
loved taking
> care of cuddly animals - or somesuch. Since I'd just had my LC 
experience, I
> refused. Fortunately, someone gave me a copy years later, and I 
discovered
> the hilarious James Harriot *I* know and love.
> 

I loved/love the Harriot books! Tricky Woo, Nugent (aka Nudist), 
Tristan, the farmers, what fun! 

Milz (who wanted to be a vet after reading those books, but then 
realised that her brain cells didn't have the capacity to contain 
information about several species let alone one) 




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 18 16:06:26 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (jenP_97)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:06:26 -0000
Subject: Of why the sea is boiling hot...
In-Reply-To: <9vnlbd+mqmh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vnpi2+guig@eGroups.com>

> Tabouli wrote:
> > Dedicated myself to memorising Jabberwocky and The Walrus and the 
> > Carpenter in my teens.
> > 

And David said in return,

> And are you on track?  

Sorry for this short post, but I *swear* the first thing I read was 
"Are you on crack?"  I burst out laughing (because I almost agreed 
with this faux-statement... the Jabberwocky is extremely long as is 
the W&tC) and then realized that I'd misread.  Too bad... my hubby 
tends to say this to me jokingly... like when I mentioned that we 
should have another baby... or I should quit my job and stay home 
with Ginger... 

Jen (who made her welfare-to-work students read BOTH those poems... 
as both a reading exercise and an intro to poetry.  They didn't like 
them... I mean, please... they read on a 2nd grade level already, LC 
is not quite easy to read if you have trouble reading things like 
"often" or "variety".  They were frankly puzzled when they read about 
things like slithy toves.  Of course they did like Alice's commentary 
on it.)

ps.  just realized my parenthetical aside was just as long as my main 
post... I apologize.




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 18 16:21:37 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:21:37 -0000
Subject: Carroll
In-Reply-To: <002001c187c5$0e01f180$a72adccb@price>
Message-ID: <9vnqeh+tnel@eGroups.com>

Tabouli wrote:

> Do we, perhaps have other Lewis Carroll fans in our midst?  

:Raises hand:  I think I like Lewis Carroll for many of the same 
reasons as I like JKR, but then I think the same about Carroll and 
Pratchett and Pratchett says he doesn't like Carroll at all.  Go 
figure.

If you know French, check out the very clever translation of 
Jabberwocky (it's in the Alice annotated by Martin Gardner).  "O jour 
frabjais!"

Amy




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 18 16:26:23 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:26:23 -0000
Subject: Squick, salacious fics, a new guest for Friendship Isle...
In-Reply-To: <002101c187c5$0efdb6a0$a72adccb@price>
Message-ID: <9vnqnf+3hie@eGroups.com>

The irrepressible Tabouli wrote:

> Can I bring Tom Bombadil?  I though Snape would like to meet him
(maybe Tom can write him a few cheery songs to help him get over 
Lily...)

Tabouli darling, take those lollipops out of your ears and listen 
properly.  On Friendship Isle, Snape has never had a romantic or 
lustful thought in his life and never will.  As for The Abominable 
Tom Bombadil, ok, he can come along as long as he's chaste.  And has 
laryngitis.

Amy
who imagines that if Tom tried a cheery song on Snape he'd have a De-
Cutesifying Potion poured in his wiggly little ears before he could 
say "Goldberry"




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Tue Dec 18 11:33:15 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:33:15 EST5EDT
Subject: and whether pigs have wings...
Message-ID: <1DF278D02BE@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

I love Lewis Carroll.  When I had chicken pox (age 9) my 
grandmother came over one day and read Through the Looking 
Glass aloud. (Nice Princess Bride moment)  I thought it was 
really strange and at points thought my grandmother was 
making up part of it.  When I was older I read it for 
myself and cracked up when I realized that, by Jove, she 
hadn't made it up!  :-)

We had to read All Creatures Great and Small in the 7th 
grade and I remember that most of us didn't care for it.  
But there was a handful that went on to read the rest of 
his books and formed this James Herriot book club kinda 
thing.  They actually got really snooty towards the rest of 
us for not liking them.  *sniff*  Meanies.....

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

Adult Ralphie: Meanwhile, I struggled for exactly the 
right BB gun hint. It had to be firm, but subtle.

Young Ralphie: Flick says he saw some grizzly bears 
near Polaski's candy store!

Adult Ralphie: They looked at me as if I had lobsters 
crawling out of my ears. I could tell I was in imminent 
danger of overplaying my hand.
                           - A Christmas Story
Happy Holidays!



From bray.262 at osu.edu  Tue Dec 18 11:48:41 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:48:41 EST5EDT
Subject: LOTR tonight
Message-ID: <1DF69A51ECE@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

I'm seeing Lord of the Rings tonight at midnight with a 
bunch of my snobby little Tolkien fanatic friends (who said 
"Yes, Harry Potter is...worthwhile, I suppose").  

I'm thinking about wearing my Gryffindor Seeker jersey, 
just to annoy them.  :-)  Perhaps accidentally calling 
Gandalf "Dumbledore"....Frodo "Harry"....Gollum "Dobby".

Good thing I'm driving or else I'd probably be left behind 
by the end of the night.

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

Adult Ralphie: Meanwhile, I struggled for exactly the 
right BB gun hint. It had to be firm, but subtle.

Young Ralphie: Flick says he saw some grizzly bears 
near Polaski's candy store!

Adult Ralphie: They looked at me as if I had lobsters 
crawling out of my ears. I could tell I was in imminent 
danger of overplaying my hand.
                           - A Christmas Story
Happy Holidays!



From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Tue Dec 18 17:41:09 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 17:41:09 -0000
Subject: a new guest for Friendship Isle...
In-Reply-To: <9vnqnf+3hie@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vnv3l+ohm8@eGroups.com>

Amy:
>   As for The Abominable 
> Tom Bombadil, ok, he can come along as long as he's chaste.  And 
has 
> laryngitis.
> 
That would be The Abominable Bombadil Of Unspeakable Literary 
Instincts?

David




From bitter_milk at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 18 17:56:29 2001
From: bitter_milk at hotmail.com (yozora_no_onna)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 17:56:29 -0000
Subject: LOTR tonight
In-Reply-To: <1DF69A51ECE@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9vo00d+hg3t@eGroups.com>



*cautiously delurks* 

At least Harry Potter hasn't got Liv Tyler in it. 
(Sorry, it's just personally she's different from what I imagined 
Arwen to be like.)

I'm a Lord of the Rings fan, and can't wait for the movie. 
The film is a bit different from HP though...it seems more aimed for  
adults (even though it was originally written for children) ?  It's a 
bit frustrating when everyone lumps them together in the same 
category. Come to think of it, J.K.Rowling wrote Harry Potter not for 
kids, but the movie was targeted towards them anyway. Hmm. 

</end babble>


Another OT (?) question: 

I've been looking for the Gryffindor scarf, but I'm a bit reluctant 
to shell out $70 on Ebay for the Marks&Sparks ones that are listed. 
Is/Was there any official US version of the Gryffindor scarf released?




miyabi 
====================
http://yurameki.com



 

 

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> I'm seeing Lord of the Rings tonight at midnight with a 
> bunch of my snobby little Tolkien fanatic friends (who said 
> "Yes, Harry Potter is...worthwhile, I suppose").  
> 
> I'm thinking about wearing my Gryffindor Seeker jersey, 
> just to annoy them.  :-)  Perhaps accidentally calling 
> Gandalf "Dumbledore"....Frodo "Harry"....Gollum "Dobby".
> 
> Good thing I'm driving or else I'd probably be left behind 
> by the end of the night.
> 
> Rachel Bray
> The Ohio State University
> Fees, Deposits and Disbursements
>  




From aprilgc at ivillage.com  Tue Dec 18 18:33:11 2001
From: aprilgc at ivillage.com (ladylprekaun)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:33:11 -0000
Subject: Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer - alert
Message-ID: <9vo257+hh03@eGroups.com>

I haven't been reading my email lately. Please forgive me if this is 
already mentioned. When we were talking about favorite Christmas songs, 
someone else mentioned a liking for "Grandma Got Run over by a 
Reindeer". For those of you who like it, I just found out that "they" 
have made a cartoon based on the song. It airs Friday night on WB (a 
full hour)...I will be setting my vcr for that one. hehehe

Maniacally yours,
Lady Leprechaun





From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 18 19:14:55 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:14:55 -0000
Subject: a new guest for Friendship Isle...
In-Reply-To: <9vnv3l+ohm8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vo4jf+6kqa@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "davewitley" <dfrankiswork at n...> wrote:

> That would be The Abominable Bombadil Of Unspeakable Literary 
> Instincts?

Doubtless a very insidious demon.

Amy




From nlpnt at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 18 21:03:38 2001
From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:03:38 -0000
Subject: Lewis Carroll, LOTR
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20011218073924.00afba60@mail.mcn.org>
Message-ID: <9voava+r3kn@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Catherine Keegan <keegan at m...> wrote:
> At 03:18 PM 12/18/01 +0100, the glorious goat wrote:
> >[Have you all also ever ruined your enjoyment of a good book by 
reading it
> >according to the rules of the wrong genre?
> 
> I no longer try to read books as anything other than 
> stories.  Try it on non fiction and see if the author can actually 
write!

The classic example of this (to me) is "Small Wonder; The Amazing 
Story of the Volkswagen". A book about a car factory. *Plenty* of 
room for dry-as-dustness, even with WW2 as a backdrop, and of course 
you know the ending, but a fascinating read with some laugh-out-loud 
moments (care to get some French Army officers blotto and careen 
around the factory in an amphibious bug, anyone?)
> 
>
>
>.  I had already read a ton of derivative fiction and 
> liked the other stuff much better.

Me, too. I guess it's not easy being first.

>  I am now married to a complete LotR fan 
> who is amazing me every day by reciting huge bits of it. 

Did you (or he) see wossname (Frodo) on The Daily Show last night? He 
said hardcore LOTR fans "....make Trekkies look like dilettantes."


Joke;
Did you hear of the last-minute change in the new LOTR movie? Even 
the trailer shows Gandalf arriving at Bag End in a pony-and-trap, but 
in the final movie all vehicles will be Chrysler products.


-Noel
65% HP obsessed.
2.3% LOTR obsessed.
98.6% car obsessed. 
Sounds normal to me.









From nlpnt at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 18 21:06:08 2001
From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:06:08 -0000
Subject: LOTR tonight
In-Reply-To: <1DF69A51ECE@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9vob40+gptc@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> I'm seeing Lord of the Rings tonight at midnight with a 
> bunch of my snobby little Tolkien fanatic friends (who said 
> "Yes, Harry Potter is...worthwhile, I suppose").  
> 
> I'm thinking about wearing my Gryffindor Seeker jersey, 
> just to annoy them.  :-)  Perhaps accidentally calling 
> Gandalf "Dumbledore"....Frodo "Harry"....Gollum "Dobby".
> 
> Good thing I'm driving or else I'd probably be left behind 
> by the end of the night.
> 

If your LOTR-obsessed friends are anything like my LOTR-obsessed 
friends, hold onto those keys REAL TIGHT!




From nlpnt at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 18 21:11:49 2001
From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:11:49 -0000
Subject: Scarves, was Re: LOTR tonight
In-Reply-To: <9vo00d+hg3t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vobel+bebt@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "yozora_no_onna" <bitter_milk at h...> 
wrote:
> 
> Another OT (?) question: 
> 
> I've been looking for the Gryffindor scarf, but I'm a bit reluctant 
> to shell out $70 on Ebay for the Marks&Sparks ones that are listed. 
> Is/Was there any official US version of the Gryffindor scarf 
released?
> 
> 
> 
Not sure. I haven't seen much HP ANYTHING in stores lately, besides 
the Official Harry Potter Empty Shelf Peg And "No Rainchecks Given 
For This Item" Sign.

 BTW, how common are school-colo(u)r scarves in the UK now? The cynic 
in me says that the only reason there's an official one there is that 
someone was stuck with a warehouse full of 'em.

-Noel
Still hoping for a nice accurate 1/24 scale Anglia to come out of the 
second movie hubbub.




From fleurmellor at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 18 22:34:24 2001
From: fleurmellor at yahoo.com (fleurmellor)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 22:34:24 -0000
Subject: help! cant get cute personality test link to work!
In-Reply-To: <1C7236979F4@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9vog9g+21if@eGroups.com>

 Help i cant get your link to work! i am really curious to do the 
test as well :)



--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> This is a cute little test to see what characters you are 
> most like in the HP world.  My top five were:
> 
> Harry
> Dumbledore
> Fred/George Weasley (wheeeeee!)
> Hermione (....whatever)
> Lupin (I knew we were meant for each other)
> 
> 
> http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=hpotterch
> ars  
> 
> Rachel Bray
> The Ohio State University
> Fees, Deposits and Disbursements
> 
> Adult Ralphie: Meanwhile, I struggled for exactly the 
> right BB gun hint. It had to be firm, but subtle.
> 
> Young Ralphie: Flick says he saw some grizzly bears 
> near Polaski's candy store!
> 
> Adult Ralphie: They looked at me as if I had lobsters 
> crawling out of my ears. I could tell I was in imminent 
> danger of overplaying my hand.
>                            - A Christmas Story
> Happy Holidays!




From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Tue Dec 18 23:33:51 2001
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 23:33:51 -0000
Subject: help! cant get cute personality test link to work!
In-Reply-To: <9vog9g+21if@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vojov+b3u3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "fleurmellor" <fleurmellor at y...> wrote:
>  Help i cant get your link to work! i am really curious to do the 
> test as well :)
> 
> 
> 
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> > This is a cute little test to see what characters you are 
> > most like in the HP world.  My top five were:
. . . . > > 
> > http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=hpotterch
> > ars  


This board has a rather narrow text field and wraps the links sometimes.  As 
you can see above, there's an "ars" that has wrapped into the second line.  Add 
that to the highlightted link and it should work.  

Also, sometimes you have to switch between .htm and .html for the links to 
work, that one's a mystery.




From frances at forever.u-net.com  Tue Dec 18 23:55:00 2001
From: frances at forever.u-net.com (cloud_walkinguk)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 23:55:00 -0000
Subject: Scarves, was Re: LOTR tonight
In-Reply-To: <9vobel+bebt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vol0k+idfc@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "nlpnt" <nlpnt at y...> wrote:
>  BTW, how common are school-colo(u)r scarves in the UK now? The cynic 
> in me says that the only reason there's an official one there is that 
> someone was stuck with a warehouse full of 'em.
> 
> -Noel
> Still hoping for a nice accurate 1/24 scale Anglia to come out of the 
> second movie hubbub.

All the universities have their own official scarves in their own 
special colours, and my school had one as part of its uniform!

There is a new HP poster campaign just started in my area. It was a 
real shock to be driving along the road and suddenly see a poster of 
Ron and Harry both in their Weasley jumpers (I think that is what Harry 
was wearing when Dumbledore finds him sat in front of the Mirror). 
Harry's had a big letter 'H' on the front. Then a little further on 
down the road was a poster with the Dursleys on it in a nice little 
family group. I will have to go out with my camera and try to get 
pictures without looking too strange!!!

Frances
Celebrate Harry's and Draco's 21st birthdays:
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Frances_Potter/Coming_Of_Age/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP_comingofage





From Elementale at aol.com  Wed Dec 19 01:06:13 2001
From: Elementale at aol.com (themajicou)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 01:06:13 -0000
Subject: Hio!
Message-ID: <9vop65+rmc1@eGroups.com>

Howdy!

I'm a 22 y/o gal in love with all things Harry Potter! I love plot 
debates as much as the next Harry fan, but what I really like to do
is 
to make silly, spontaneous comparisons of other entertainment media
to 
HP. 
Warning: this is really, really stupid. But hell, it gave me a
chuckle 
when I thought of it. Here goes... The other day I was channel
surfing 
and came across an old cartoon called Inspector Gadget, a childhood 
favorite of mine. The basic plot of most episodes is very simple. Dr. 
Claw does something illegal. Dr. Claw has two goals: kill Inspector 
Gadget, and take over the world. Y'all see where I'm going with this? 
Good! Inspector Gadget to the rescue! Gadget bumbles through every 
episode, recieving help from Penny and Brain (her dog). Throughout
the 
episode, Gadget is completely clueless about his mission and Penny 
eventually solves the crime. At the end, everthing turns out okay,
but 
Dr. Claw is never caught. Over the credits, you hear him proclaiming 
"I'll get you next time Gadget, next time!"
While I don't see any similarity between Harry and Inspector Gadget 
(Harry doesn't bumble) I see a slight similarity between Hermione and 
Penny. The biggest thing though is Voldemort and Dr. Claw. Its funny. 
Both Dr. Claw and Voldie have many followers, a loyal pet, and just 
can't seem to finish one simple job. I could easily see Voldemort 
saying at the end of each book "I'll get you next time Potter..."

At least Dr. Claw has never been physically defeated.

Majicou (a Snape fan)




From bitter_milk at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 19 01:06:43 2001
From: bitter_milk at hotmail.com (yozora_no_onna)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 01:06:43 -0000
Subject: Scarves, was Re: LOTR tonight
In-Reply-To: <9vol0k+idfc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vop73+ucdp@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "cloud_walkinguk" <frances at f...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "nlpnt" <nlpnt at y...> wrote:
> >  BTW, how common are school-colo(u)r scarves in the UK now? The 
cynic 
> > in me says that the only reason there's an official one there is 
that 
> > someone was stuck with a warehouse full of 'em.
> > 
> > -Noel
> > Still hoping for a nice accurate 1/24 scale Anglia to come out of 
the 
> > second movie hubbub.
> 
> All the universities have their own official scarves in their own 
> special colours, and my school had one as part of its uniform!


High schools (Secondary schools) also have school scarves too. Well, 
the public schools anyway (by public I mean "private". I think. That 
always did get me confused). 

I attended a boarding school in England for quite a few years, and 
there was the house system, each house had its own colour and the 
scarf was the corresponding colour. =) I'm not sure if this was the 
norm, but the scarf was striped in two colours: the school colour and 
the house colour. 
(I know Cambridge has striped scarves too, but I'm not sure how that 
works.)

Do state schools have house/school colour scarves?  



~miyabi @ seductive.com
=======================
http://yurameki.com




From dai_evans at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 19 01:08:57 2001
From: dai_evans at yahoo.com (dai_evans)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 01:08:57 -0000
Subject: Scarves, 
In-Reply-To: <9vol0k+idfc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vopb9+qct2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "cloud_walkinguk" <frances at f...> wrote:

> All the universities have their own official scarves in their own 
> special colours, and my school had one as part of its uniform!

Southampton university uses the Gryffindor colours in it's scarf. 
Therefore I wear it proudly.

I remember originally buying it from the Students union shop one day 
just before an exam when i needed new batteries for my calculator. 
The batteries were 2 or 3 quid but I had no cash, and the queue for 
the machine was about 5 miles long, so I decided to pay by card. 
Unfortunately unpon arriving at the 'till, the cashier informed me 
that cards were only acceptable on transactions of ?10 or over.

Time was rushing by, and I needed to head for the exam, so i just 
randomly grabbed a few items nearby to make up the amount; cycle 
puncture repair kit, a couple of pens... and oh yes, one of those 
scarves. The cashier presented the little thingy for me to sign, 
which I duly did. 

Upon exiting the shop and rushing to the exam room, I happened to 
glance at the thingy I had just signed. I was appalled to descover 
that i had just signed away over ?20.

The bloody scarf had cost ?15.

Hence I get as much use out of it as is humanly possible.


Dai




From farris5 at swbell.net  Wed Dec 19 01:31:13 2001
From: farris5 at swbell.net (Russ & Wanda)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:31:13 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Hio!
References: <9vop65+rmc1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <007201c1882c$d8dd39c0$92554241@hppav>

Go, Go, Gadget Broom! LOL
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: themajicou 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 7:06 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Hio!


  Howdy!

  I'm a 22 y/o gal in love with all things Harry Potter! I love plot 
  debates as much as the next Harry fan, but what I really like to do
  is 
  to make silly, spontaneous comparisons of other entertainment media
  to 
  HP. 
  Warning: this is really, really stupid. But hell, it gave me a
  chuckle 
  when I thought of it. Here goes... The other day I was channel
  surfing 
  and came across an old cartoon called Inspector Gadget, a childhood 
  favorite of mine. The basic plot of most episodes is very simple. Dr. 
  Claw does something illegal. Dr. Claw has two goals: kill Inspector 
  Gadget, and take over the world. Y'all see where I'm going with this? 
  Good! Inspector Gadget to the rescue! Gadget bumbles through every 
  episode, recieving help from Penny and Brain (her dog). Throughout
  the 
  episode, Gadget is completely clueless about his mission and Penny 
  eventually solves the crime. At the end, everthing turns out okay,
  but 
  Dr. Claw is never caught. Over the credits, you hear him proclaiming 
  "I'll get you next time Gadget, next time!"
  While I don't see any similarity between Harry and Inspector Gadget 
  (Harry doesn't bumble) I see a slight similarity between Hermione and 
  Penny. The biggest thing though is Voldemort and Dr. Claw. Its funny. 
  Both Dr. Claw and Voldie have many followers, a loyal pet, and just 
  can't seem to finish one simple job. I could easily see Voldemort 
  saying at the end of each book "I'll get you next time Potter..."

  At least Dr. Claw has never been physically defeated.

  Majicou (a Snape fan)


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From Elementale at aol.com  Wed Dec 19 01:21:04 2001
From: Elementale at aol.com (themajicou)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 01:21:04 -0000
Subject: Hio!
In-Reply-To: <9vop65+rmc1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9voq20+guo2@eGroups.com>

Oh, I forgot. I have a saucy little group devoted to Snape on yahoo. 
All female Snape fans are invited!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Severus_Snape_is_hot/

Majicou--------------------




From catlady at wicca.net  Wed Dec 19 04:43:50 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 04:43:50 -0000
Subject: Sounds like acros(s)tic(h) / squick / hottie Snape
Message-ID: <9vp5u6+k3kn@eGroups.com>

Tabouli wrote:
> Only in HP fandom could such games arise. 

Aberforth's Goat signed off with:

> who, btw, thought David's post was hilarious - all the more because
> it stumped him! - and is afraid his outburst could be taken as real
> outrage. Who would also be curious to know how Sister Mary managed 
> the miracle of decoding it!)

Mike, I thought your fake outburst was hysterically funny. But I 
don't understand people who didn't figure out David's game. Acrostics 
are commonplace, like the one I made for Ravenclaw and used to have 
in my sig, and besides DAVID TOLD US WHAT HE WAS DOING: "Initial 
information is followed by mere padding at each stage." 

Tabouli wrote:

> What a wonderful verb is "to squick". Did you coin it yourself, 
> Ebony, or is it an established representative of the English tongue?

It's a real word, at least among computer geek/internet people.

Majicou wrote:

> Oh, I forgot. I have a saucy little group devoted to Snape on 
> yahoo. All female Snape fans are invited!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Severus_Snape_is_hot/

1) Only females? btw, are there any males who think Snape is hot?
2) If you use Cheetah Chat to get into Yahoo Chat and you like 
to use avatars, there are two portraits of Snape/Rickman, 872a.jpg 
and 872b.jpg
3) Yesterday I was barely able to resist telling this list all about 
seeing the young Severus Snape on my bus yesterday (who knew he had a 
Time Turner?). A tall goth boy, probably 17 or 18, and the first 
thing I noticed was the sable hair, a bit longer than shoulder length 
but exactly in Rickman's Snape's hairstyle; then the intelligent onyx 
eyes, aquiline nose, and olive skin... what's bad about hair being 
greasy? If I were his age (instead of more than twice it), I would 
have pounced!




From Elementale at aol.com  Wed Dec 19 05:46:14 2001
From: Elementale at aol.com (themajicou)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 05:46:14 -0000
Subject: Sounds like acros(s)tic(h) / squick / hottie Snape
In-Reply-To: <9vp5u6+k3kn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vp9j6+ah7a@eGroups.com>


 
> 1) Only females? btw, are there any males who think Snape is hot?

I never thought of that. I think that would be awesome! Let me augment 
my invitation... Anyone who longs to shower with Snape is welcome! 
Loofas, body gels, and aromatherapy are encoraged. Please supply own 
towel. TEE HEE!

Majicou (I've got the urge to herbal!)-------




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Wed Dec 19 06:08:48 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:08:48 +1100
Subject: JKR's style, Lewis Carroll, HP vs LOTR
Message-ID: <003401c18857$919cf700$e951dccb@price>

Susanna (who very kindly dedicated her amusing Death-by-Chocolate fic to me!  Awww):
> You see- not to wonder that book 5 isn't yet ready, or do you think 
JKR could write THAT?

Given the discussion of fanfic of late, and David's comment that none of the fanfics could possibly be confused with the Real McCoy JKR style, what do people actually see as the identifying characteristics of JKR's style?  Fast-paced, witty, ingeniously convoluted plots, snappy dialogue?  On the main list Luke mused on how authors give characters a unique 'voice'... what is JKR's voice?  Ahaaaa... (now, Mods, is this Off or On-Topic?  It concerns canon, so it might even be On!)

As for Lewis Carroll, and being on track to memorise his two most famous Alice poems by twenty (if only, sighs Tabouli, averting her eyes from her next and rather alarming birthday), fie!  I had 'em memorised by the age of 14, I'll have you know.  Used to recite them in maths classes with a fellow fan.  Even wrote a parody of Jabberwocky at the tender age of 12-13 called Sabberwocky (Sab was the nickname for our geography teacher)!  I also have a little collection of copies of "Alice Through the Looking Glass" in different languages and editions, a junior abridged edition in Japanese with candy-coloured illustrations, a grungy standard-issue cheap Chinese paperback Mandarin edition, a classy-looking Greek edition with the original illustrations in colour, a French schoolteachers' edition, complete with exercises and essay questions in the back, and, of course, both of the two different editions of "The Annotated Alice".  I even have "The Annotated Snark" somewhere...

In the midst of the word he was trying to say,
In the midst of his laughter and glee,
He had softly and suddenly vanished away - 
For the Snark was a Boojum, you see.

Mahoney:
> the neighbor kid (age 12) who got me into Harry Potter had gone 
from Robert Jordan to Harry Potter, loved them both, then thought he'd
 read Tolkein...and hated it.  Couldn't get into Lord of the Rings.<

Heh heh heh.  Now this links back to my long ago theory about why HP is so popular - it is pacy, modern and accessible enough to appeal to the realist readers who don't want to read anything they can't directly relate to their own lives.  My brother is a case in point.  As a child, he wouldn't have a bar of fantasy.  What's the point, it's stupid, it's not real, he complained (while his older sister spent her days wallowing in shelves full of books full of unicorns and dragons and wizards).  However, ironically enough, it was *him* who got me onto Harry Potter... at Christmas last year, he'd grown bored with my constant avowal that I was quitting full-time work and becoming a writer and if I starve to death too bad, so he bought me a copy of PS as a present.  "If you want to make a living as a writer, this is the way to do it," he told me.  I'd heard of HP, of course, even had a friend who was a fan, but I'd never seriously considered reading it.  After reading PS, however, I became curious, cranked up the Web and was still reading open-mouthed several hours later.

Unknown single mother with tragic past makes gazillions out of a series of children's books!  Released in sombre covers for adult readers!  (this was a personal favorite of mine).  Eight year old children reading 700 page novels!  Film rights, action figures, pop-up books, diaries, children *wanting* to wear glasses to look like Harry!  NYT setting up a new children's bestseller list to stop HP dominating!  I had never seen anything so wonderful.  I was amazed, inspired... all this for a WRITER!!  YESSSSS!!  A beacon for us all!!  I rushed out and bought the remaining HP books and never looked back.

So, you see, in stark contrast to those who disdain HP because it's so *popular* (contemptuous sniff), it was the social phenomenon of HP that actually *attracted* me, at least as much as the books themselves.  I liked PS, but I wasn't overwhelmed by it... it was my inner social scientist that prompted the shift from reader of a likeable novel to rabid HP fan (confesses Tabouli timidly).

As an epilogue, my brother, who proceeded to borrow and read each of the HP sequels I bought (this from a man who has probably never owned more than 15 books in his life and almost never reads for pleasure), decided he ought to read Lord of the Rings before seeing the movie.  I nodded equably, and lent him my copy (I like LOTR well enough, but it doesn't inspire any great passion in me, apart from Tom, of course...).  A month later I asked him how he was going with it, and he said he'd given up after about a chapter and a half... too slow, too boring, couldn't be bothered, remind me to give it back to you when I see you next.  Hee hee, I exulted to myself, Harry one, Frodo nil...

Rachel:
> I'm thinking about wearing my Gryffindor Seeker jersey, 
just to annoy them.  :-)  Perhaps accidentally calling 
Gandalf "Dumbledore"....Frodo "Harry"....Gollum "Dobby".<

Sauron "Voldemort", Sam "Ron", Boromir "Quirrell", Galadriel "McGonagall", Aragorn "Sirius"... actually, the actor they've dug up to play the striding one is quite a close match for my mental image of Sirius.  Tortured, handsome, stringy black hair, about the right age... he's American, I think, but otherwise I'd give him at least an audition!

Noel (very seasonally appropriate name, I must say):
> Did you (or he) see wossname (Frodo) on The Daily Show last night? He 
said hardcore LOTR fans "....make Trekkies look like dilettantes."

So what does that make us Potterphiles?

Tabouli.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Wed Dec 19 06:43:48 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:43:48 +1100
Subject: A Tale of Two Toms: Bombadil puts the music into Friendship Isle!
Message-ID: <002301c18858$843bdda0$e951dccb@price>

Amy Z:
> Tabouli darling, take those lollipops out of your ears and listen 
properly.  On Friendship Isle, Snape has never had a romantic or 
lustful thought in his life and never will.  As for The Abominable 
Tom Bombadil, ok, he can come along as long as he's chaste.  And has 
laryngitis.<
>
>Amy (who imagines that if Tom tried a cheery song on Snape he'd have a De-
Cutesifying Potion poured in his wiggly little ears before he could 
say "Goldberry")<

Confronted with the sinister glare of Customs, Tabouli sidles meekly back to her LOLLIPOPS dinghy, where Tom Bombadil is waiting, and stashes her somewhat waxy confectionary under the oars.  As she does so, she is briefly distracted by a blurred Anglo-Danish figure plummeting by, plunging into the sea, and swimming furiously for the mainland, gurgling mysteriously about record collections.

Tabouli quietly explains the situation to Tom, who accepts it with his usual jovial spirits.  In cheery rhyming stanzas, he explains that he is now completely chaste (he and Goldberry the Gold-digger separated a few months ago due to irreconcilable differences relating to a murder charge - Gandalf caught her late at night clutching Tom's will and weaving willow branches around his neck): after all, he points out in twinkly fashion, he is a Tolkien character - could he be anything less?  As for laryngitis, viruses can touch Tom not, and potions cannot harm him; nonetheless, he agrees to communicate only by dance and flamboyant gesture, as he has pressing reasons of his own for coming to Friendship Isle.

In his recent period of unemployment (due to his inexplicable retrenchment from the LOTR film), Bombadil has been working on a musical entitled "A Tale of Two Toms", which brings to life the heretofore untold story of Voldemort's attempt to take over Middle Earth through song and modern dance.  Having heard rumours of Snape's penchant for sinister airs and theatrical speeches, Bombadil is hoping to audition him for the leading role of Voldemort, a challenging but rewarding part which culminates in a chase scene in the heart of the Old/Forbidden Forest (which are exclusively revealed to be as one) where Voldemort tap dances after Bombadil around Old Man Willow twirling a baton, lit with flashes of green strobe lighting...

Tabouli (Bombadil's defender and publicist)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Dec 19 09:19:27 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 04:19:27 -0500
Subject: Any more yak zoology? (was Friendship Isle)
Message-ID: <18339FC7.6A39AEDC.6E93A4F5@netscape.net>

bb1wwwbb
bbwbbb2b
3wwwwwwb
bbwbbbwb
bbwbbbwb
bbbbbbwb
bbb4wwww

Across
1. Lazy ma ditches Los Angeles, returns moderates in Vermont (4)
3. Bail out: scramble for salad (7)
4. Spinning wren? (5)

Down
1. Er, MBA refines Jurassic resin (5)
2. Seed parking in Cox's orange apple (6)

David
-- 




__________________________________________________________________
Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop at Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/

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From mediaphen at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 19 10:11:27 2001
From: mediaphen at hotmail.com (Martin Smith)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:11:27 +0100
Subject: JKR's style, Lewis Carroll, HP vs LOTR
References: <1008755038.339.32866.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <DAV30ocNCGt42s9Bcmc00004904@hotmail.com>

Tabouli:
<snip>
Sauron "Voldemort", Sam "Ron", Boromir "Quirrell", Galadriel "McGonagall",
Aragorn "Sirius"... actually, the actor they've dug up to play the striding
one is quite a close match for my mental image of Sirius.  Tortured,
handsome, stringy black hair, about the right age... he's American, I think,
but otherwise I'd give him at least an audition!
<snippetysnipsnip>

Well, he's mostly American, but also Danish. Viggo speaks Danish fluently
and understands Swedish (yay!), so his European roots and apperent language
skills could mean he is capable of the British accent.
BTW, the actor first signed for Aragorn, Stuart Townsend, is British. How
about him for Sirius?

Martin, living as far from NZ as possible, yet right in the area where the
*original* Middle-earth was believed to be (that is, in Northern (Norse?)
mythology)








From sofie_elisabeth at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Dec 19 12:58:14 2001
From: sofie_elisabeth at yahoo.co.uk (sofie_elisabeth)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:58:14 -0000
Subject: Lord of the Rings
Message-ID: <9vq2t6+u5e8@eGroups.com>

Hi to all,

I've just (literally) started reading the fisrt book, as part of a 
bet with my boyfriend (if I read Lord of the Rings he'll read Harry 
Potter and then we'll go see both films...)but I'm finding it really 
hard to get into. Anyone have any advice on when it gets easier to 
understand?

Sofie




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Wed Dec 19 13:32:26 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 00:32:26 +1100
Subject: Tied up for Yuletide, the cryptic David
Message-ID: <001a01c18891$b507b060$4c33c2cb@price>

Alas, Fellow Chatters, I have ill tidings... tomorrow I am, yet again, off to Adelaide to spend Yuletide with my family (was that a muffled wince you heard?)  Now, I'm looking into the possibility of working out how to use my ISP to connect to the Net from my father's computer (the stingy fellow has vetoed netsurfing on his own, timed account), and plan to swap OT-Chatter to individual posts to my Yahoo Taboulica account for the week or so I'm there, but I sadly anticipate a rather restricted capacity for responding to posts in any proper fashion (e.g. a fashion which involves strident defences of Tom Bombadil, page long rants on controversial social issues, whimsical musings on Lewis Carroll and JKR's literary style, etc.).

If anyone has any fan mail for me to pass on to Tom Bombadil, rest assured that I will do my best under difficult circumstances, and that normal service will be resumed as soon as possible.

David:
> That would be The Abominable Bombadil Of Unspeakable Literary 
Instincts?

No, just a Disturbingly Amicable Voldemort In Disguise.

Tabouli, who has figured out all of David's evil crossword clues except 4 across, which she thinks is Ebony but cannot for the life of her figure out how this is derived from "spinning wren"...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Dec 19 13:58:09 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:58:09 -0000
Subject: Fanfic mimetic art, ISPs, desert islands, crossword
In-Reply-To: <002301c18858$843bdda0$e951dccb@price>
Message-ID: <9vq6dh+i7eb@eGroups.com>

Tabouli:
> Given the discussion of fanfic of late, and David's comment that 
none of the fanfics could possibly be confused with the Real McCoy 
JKR style

Steady on!  I have hardly read any fanfic - what I said was true for 
the limited sample I have looked at.

>Now, I'm looking into the possibility of working out how to use my 
ISP to connect to the Net from my father's computer 

Does he have a reasonably modern PC?  You might be able to configure 
Dial-up networking (in My Computer) to do the trick.  My ISP has a 
web-page of instructions for that (for them), but I found that all 
the radio buttons, check boxes etc were pretty well correct already.  
So if you double-click Make New Connection and follow the 
instructions (you will need their phone no) it might just work with 
the default values. Perhaps John knows what to do if he has a Mac.

>As she does so, she is briefly distracted by a blurred Anglo-Danish 
figure plummeting by, plunging into the sea, and swimming furiously 
for the mainland, gurgling mysteriously about record collections.
> 
Hm. I might be persuaded to stop for the Two Toms.  Do I have to 
explain Desert Island Discs?  Obviously not the globe-spanning 
phenomenon the BBC would hope for.  On this radio programme, a 
celebrity is asked to choose their eight favourite records, a book 
(not the Bible or Shakespeare) and a luxury, all based on the 
implausible conceit that they are to be marooned on a desert island 
with a record player (no doubt now a DVD) and unlimited food and 
basic facilities of life.

JKR did do her stint, and I did listen to it, but I can't remember 
the music or her book or her luxury, or much of what she said, except 
that there wasn't anything not widely published elsewhere: no, she 
was poor but not *that* poor in the cafe, the train journey was from 
Euston not Kings Cross, that kind of thing.

>Tabouli, who has figured out all of David's evil crossword clues 
except 4 across, which she thinks is Ebony but cannot for the life of 
her figure out how this is derived from "spinning wren"...

No, it's not Ebony.  I thought all the answers were on the island, 
but a quick search shows I am wrong - but certainly no prominent 
shippers.

David, thinking Cock Robin never got to Oz...




From virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 19 15:24:27 2001
From: virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com (virtualworldofhp)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:24:27 -0000
Subject: Any more yak zoology? (was Friendship Isle)
In-Reply-To: <18339FC7.6A39AEDC.6E93A4F5@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <9vqbfb+p846@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., dfrankiswork at n... wrote:
> bb1wwwbb
> bbwbbb2b
> 3wwwwwwb
> bbwbbbwb
> bbwbbbwb
> bbbbbbwb
> bbb4wwww
> 
> Across
> 1. Lazy ma ditches Los Angeles, returns moderates in Vermont (4)
> 3. Bail out: scramble for salad (7)
> 4. Spinning wren? (5)
> 
> Down
> 1. Er, MBA refines Jurassic resin (5)
> 2. Seed parking in Cox's orange apple (6)
> 
> David

*looks at this for a few seconds, then eyes roll up in her head as
Megan explains how much she hates word puzzles*

We'll miss you, Tabouli! ;-)




From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Wed Dec 19 15:35:16 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:35:16 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday Genevieve!
Message-ID: <009301c188a2$c2d06000$b03570c2@c5s910j>

Hi everyone,

Last night, the regular Birthday Elf worked her way through three barrels of
butterbeer and is now propped up against a wall in the dankest part of the
dungeon, giggling and singing comical songs.
Ho hum... you just can't get the staff these days...

What she might say, if she could string two words together, is: "It's
Genevieve Pratt's birthday today!!  Cast joyful spells and ban all curses!"

What I say is:

Have a magical day, Genevieve... make a wish.

If anyone wants to send an owl directly to Genevieve, attach a note to its
leg addressed thus:
jheen at mmcable.com.

Flying Ford Anglia





From catlady at wicca.net  Wed Dec 19 15:49:24 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:49:24 -0000
Subject: A Tale of Two Toms: Bombadil puts the music into Friendship Isle!
In-Reply-To: <002301c18858$843bdda0$e951dccb@price>
Message-ID: <9vqcu4+ppmo@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tabouli" <tabouli at u...> wrote:

> Voldemort's attempt to take over Middle Earth through song and 
> modern dance. 

Speaks for itself.

> Having heard rumours of Snape's penchant for sinister airs and 
> theatrical speeches, Bombadil is hoping to audition him for the 
> leading role of Voldemort, a challenging but rewarding part (snip)
> where Voldemort tap dances after Bombadil around Old Man Willow 
> twirling a baton, lit with flashes of green strobe lighting...

I wish I could be Rita Skeeter on the window sill when Bombadil 
mentions *that* idea to Snape! He'll call Tom a dunderhead and throw 
lightning bolts at the suggestion that *he* would cavort on stage 
like a jackanapes!




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Wed Dec 19 11:14:22 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:14:22 EST5EDT
Subject: Wow.  Just....wow
Message-ID: <1F6D80429BD@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

I have no words that are worthy of describing how 
incredible Lord of the Rings was.  Afterwards, we (the 
whole audience) sat there in stunned silence for about 5 
seconds before we jumped to our feet in applause.

People....go see this movie.

I can't  believe I now I have a movie that has finally 
knocked Star Wars off the #1 spot on my all time favorite 
list.



Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

Adult Ralphie: Meanwhile, I struggled for exactly the 
right BB gun hint. It had to be firm, but subtle.

Young Ralphie: Flick says he saw some grizzly bears 
near Polaski's candy store!

Adult Ralphie: They looked at me as if I had lobsters 
crawling out of my ears. I could tell I was in imminent 
danger of overplaying my hand.
                           - A Christmas Story
Happy Holidays!



From bitter_milk at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 19 16:45:57 2001
From: bitter_milk at hotmail.com (yozora_no_onna)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 16:45:57 -0000
Subject: Wow.  Just....wow
In-Reply-To: <1F6D80429BD@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9vqg85+dci3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> I have no words that are worthy of describing how 
> incredible Lord of the Rings was.  Afterwards, we (the 
> whole audience) sat there in stunned silence for about 5 
> seconds before we jumped to our feet in applause.
> 
> People....go see this movie.
> 
> I can't  believe I now I have a movie that has finally 
> knocked Star Wars off the #1 spot on my all time favorite 
> list.
> 
>  


I didn't think I could be more excited about seeing it than I already 
am, but I think that I'm going to die of anticipation before I go to 
see it tomorrow now!!

I wonder if there's going to be a movie version of "The Hobbit" too!


BTW... Star Wars - which installment? ;)


~miyabi @ seductive.com 
=========================
[@play] http://yurameki.com
[@study] http://www.arts.cornell.edu/romance




From ftah3 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 19 17:03:36 2001
From: ftah3 at yahoo.com (ftah3)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:03:36 -0000
Subject: JKR's style, Lewis Carroll, HP vs LOTR
In-Reply-To: <003401c18857$919cf700$e951dccb@price>
Message-ID: <9vqh98+8u72@eGroups.com>

Tabouli wrote:
> Given the discussion of fanfic of late, and David's comment that 
none of the fanfics could possibly be confused with the Real McCoy 
JKR style, what do people actually see as the identifying 
characteristics of JKR's style?  Fast-paced, witty, ingeniously 
convoluted plots, snappy dialogue?  On the main list Luke mused on 
how authors give characters a unique 'voice'... what is JKR's voice?  
Ahaaaa... (now, Mods, is this Off or On-Topic?  It concerns canon, so 
it might even be On!)

Hmm.  I'm on board in the firm belief that fanfic cannot recreate 
JKR's unique "voice," regardless of the fanficker's talent.  But as 
for what constitutes her voice...?  I don't think I could name any 
specifics that would encompass the uniqueness, but I think that the 
difference between what JKR can accomplish with a Harry Potter story 
and what a fanfic writer could accomplish has to do with the fact 
that JKR knows her characters inside and out.  She knows what they 
think, but don't say, what they've done that isn't reported, etc.  

I think that her pacing, wit, dialogue, plot habits could all be 
recreated; her effective use of descriptors ~ usually about a half to 
one full sentence at most to get across any number of implications 
about a character/situation ~ and her balancing of child/mature 
perspective and observational patterns could probably be recreated.  
But one of the things that strikes me about JKR's stories is that *in 
general* (granting a couple of inconsistencies which have popped up), 
it's obvious to me that she has so many and complex details about the 
past, present & future of characters, artifacts, and internal rules 
already laid out that any revelations and choices are ultimately 
logical, fitting in with both the character's internal consistency as 
well as with the internal consistency of the very complex overall 
universe.  And *that* is what I seriously doubt that anyone else 
could recreate.

Which doubtless makes no sense whatsoever, but there it is.  %-P

Tabouli:
> Heh heh heh.  Now this links back to my long ago theory about why 
HP is so popular - it is pacy, modern and accessible enough to appeal 
to the realist readers who don't want to read anything they can't 
directly relate to their own lives.  

Quite possibly!  I've tried to read Lord of the Rings (and The 
Hobbit, for that matter) several times since finding out it'd be made 
a movie, and every time I'll end up tossing it aside after a chapter 
or two thinking, "*What* is the appeal??  I don't get it! It's 
boring!  And slow!  And boring!"  

On the other hand, lest I give the impression that I don't like texts 
which aren't snappy, modern and realistic, I've got a BA in 
Literature, and I still choose and enjoy the old slow stuff, across 
genres, even though I'm no longer being forced to read it.  :-P  

Rachel:
> > I'm thinking about wearing my Gryffindor Seeker jersey, 
> just to annoy them.  :-)  Perhaps accidentally calling 
> Gandalf "Dumbledore"....Frodo "Harry"....Gollum "Dobby".<

*snert*  :-D

Mahoney




From rhiannon333 at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 19 17:10:01 2001
From: rhiannon333 at hotmail.com (rhiannon333au)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:10:01 -0000
Subject: Lord of the Rings
In-Reply-To: <9vq2t6+u5e8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vqhl9+g8bt@eGroups.com>

A question so often asked by first time readers of LotR. Although 
it is not everyone's cup of tea, in my opinion, it is really worth
the effort. It was not voted the book of the century (20th of 
course!) for nothing. I won't embarass myself and reveal my vast 
age by telling you how many times I have now reread and 
enjoyed it, but I can recommend you persevere. 

Advice I have heard, and think is not bad, is to skip the Prologue, 
and even to start as late as the beginning of Book 2 (meaning, 
the chapter Many Meetings). Later on, once you are quite into it, 
you can go back and reread the parts you skipped.  

I think it could be difficult for some readers, going from HP to 
LotR, given how different the books are in so many ways, while 
of course there are elements in common. HP is far more 
accessible, with more light and shade; LotR has a more 
complex and deeply layered universe which it inhabits, which 
takes a bit of getting used to for some readers (although for 
others, it is almost the best feature of the books - such as those 
who learn to write and speak Elvish, for example!). The mass of 
detail and the lengthy descriptive passages can be offputting on 
an initial read, so I would say you could skip a lot of the 
description of the journey, the countryside etc, with no loss. Later 
on, once you get into it, you may find you will want to go back and 
reread those parts, or the whole thing ( as I have, so many 
times!)

Good luck with your efforts and I hope you end up persevering 
Sofie.


Megan


-- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "sofie_elisabeth" 
<sofie_elisabeth at y...> wrote:
> Hi to all,
> 
> I've just (literally) started reading the fisrt book, as part of a 
> bet with my boyfriend (if I read Lord of the Rings he'll read Harry 
> Potter and then we'll go see both films...)but I'm finding it
really 
> hard to get into. Anyone have any advice on when it gets easier 
to 
> understand?
> 
> Sofie




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Wed Dec 19 12:12:42 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:12:42 EST5EDT
Subject: Wow. Just....wow
Message-ID: <1F7D05A77D6@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

>> I can't believe I now I have a movie that has finally 
>> knocked Star Wars off the #1 spot on my all time 
>>favorite list
>BTW... Star Wars - which installment? ;)

>~miyabi @ seductive.com 

The Holy Trilogy, actually. :-)
Phantom is in my top 10 but not top 5 all time favorite.
Though I adore young Obi Wan (or....more to the 
point....Ewan McGregor), I'm a Han Solo kinda girl.  He was 
my first "bad boy" crush.


Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

Adult Ralphie: Meanwhile, I struggled for exactly the 
right BB gun hint. It had to be firm, but subtle.

Young Ralphie: Flick says he saw some grizzly bears 
near Polaski's candy store!

Adult Ralphie: They looked at me as if I had lobsters 
crawling out of my ears. I could tell I was in imminent 
danger of overplaying my hand.
                           - A Christmas Story
Happy Holidays!



From ftah3 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 19 17:16:28 2001
From: ftah3 at yahoo.com (ftah3)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:16:28 -0000
Subject: Very quietly wondering...LOTR apathy?
Message-ID: <9vqi1c+10et1@eGroups.com>

I'm just curious...I know *I* have goofy & capricious film tastes, 
and it takes either extreme boredom coupled with opportunity or else 
fervent interest/some kind of hook inherent to the movie to get me to 
the theater...but, is anyone else *not* a-hoppin' to see LOTR?  I 
mean, not necessarily averse to seeing it, but it's low on the list 
of priorities?

I *am* interested in seeing it, but only when it's available to rent 
on DVD.  Maybe.  Or not, depending on my mood.  It's not that I don't 
think I'll like it; once I've been forced to watch a critically 
acclaimed movie, I usually find that I like it to some extent.  
Just...little overt interest.

I really am not slamming LOTR, nor fans of the book/film, just 
curious as to whether I happen to be an oddball around here per that 
particular diversion of interest.

Mahoney




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Wed Dec 19 12:36:36 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:36:36 EST5EDT
Subject: Very quietly wondering...LOTR apathy?
Message-ID: <1F8364F6C0F@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

Nope, you're not alone.  I'm only one of three in an office 
of 50 that was eager to see it.  The one thing that kept 
the fire going under my eagerness, too, was my friends.  
They're all Tolkien fiends.  So while I slammed them up one 
side and down the other with Harry, they came back with 
LOTR.

And I'm a sucker for big production movies like this with a 
large fanbase.  Star Wars, Star Trek, Bond, etc.  These 
kind of movies really catch my interest.

You don't need to know the series to see the movie.  My 
friend Nancy went with us last night with no knowledge of 
the story and thoroughly enjoyed it.  As a matter of fact, 
she's seeing it again as I type this (I'm taking too much 
time off for Christmas to see it again today...*sigh*).  
The one funny thing is that she was crying at the end 
because it seems so hopeless/helpless.  I laughed and said 
"Wow...if you thought this was hopeless, you'll be slashing 
your wrists next year at the end of Two Towers."  :-)

But, no...you're definately not alone.  I've read many 
reviews that really didn't like it.

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

Adult Ralphie: Meanwhile, I struggled for exactly the 
right BB gun hint. It had to be firm, but subtle.

Young Ralphie: Flick says he saw some grizzly bears 
near Polaski's candy store!

Adult Ralphie: They looked at me as if I had lobsters 
crawling out of my ears. I could tell I was in imminent 
danger of overplaying my hand.
                           - A Christmas Story
Happy Holidays!



From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 19 17:48:36 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:48:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: : [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Birthday Genevieve! 
Message-ID: <20011219174836.86347.qmail@web13702.mail.yahoo.com>

I agree with Neil, have a magical day with only the
best of spells and the best of wishes coming your way!
Enjoy your very special day!

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Band
of Very Merry Band of Muggles 100%

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com



From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Dec 19 17:57:24 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:57:24 -0000
Subject: Wow.  Just....wow
In-Reply-To: <1F6D80429BD@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9vqke4+6nqb@eGroups.com>

Rachel Bray wrote:
> I have no words that are worthy of describing how 
> incredible Lord of the Rings was.  Afterwards, we (the 
> whole audience) sat there in stunned silence for about 5 
> seconds before we jumped to our feet in applause.
> 
> People....go see this movie.
> 
How do those who have seen it think kids will react?  Having seen 
stills and trailers I am concerned about our youngest aged 9 - it 
looks as if it could be scary.

We would obviously prefer all to go.

David




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Wed Dec 19 13:04:41 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:04:41 EST5EDT
Subject: Kids and LOTR (was Wow. Just....wow)
Message-ID: <1F8AE9375BB@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

You know...we discussed this last night afterwards....

I've decided if I had a younger child, I don't think I'd 
take them.  There were some scenes that scared ME and I 
KNEW what was about to happen.  Some scenes are really 
intense.  The orcs are VERY alarming and the Balrog is BOOO-
scary.  (Gollum was adorable, though.)

But then again, it depends on the child, I guess.  If 
monsters don't scare them easily, take them.  If they are 
spooked by "things that go bump in the night", then, no, 
perhaps they shouldn't see this movie.

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

Adult Ralphie: Meanwhile, I struggled for exactly the 
right BB gun hint. It had to be firm, but subtle.

Young Ralphie: Flick says he saw some grizzly bears 
near Polaski's candy store!

Adult Ralphie: They looked at me as if I had lobsters 
crawling out of my ears. I could tell I was in imminent 
danger of overplaying my hand.
                           - A Christmas Story
Happy Holidays!



From virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 19 19:20:01 2001
From: virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com (virtualworldofhp)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 19:20:01 -0000
Subject: Very quietly wondering...LOTR apathy?
In-Reply-To: <9vqi1c+10et1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vqp91+g2rc@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "ftah3" <ftah3 at y...> wrote:
> I'm just curious...I know *I* have goofy & capricious film tastes, 
> and it takes either extreme boredom coupled with opportunity or else 
> fervent interest/some kind of hook inherent to the movie to get me to 
> the theater...but, is anyone else *not* a-hoppin' to see LOTR?  I 
> mean, not necessarily averse to seeing it, but it's low on the list 
> of priorities?
> 
> I *am* interested in seeing it, but only when it's available to rent 
> on DVD.  Maybe.  Or not, depending on my mood.  It's not that I don't 
> think I'll like it; once I've been forced to watch a critically 
> acclaimed movie, I usually find that I like it to some extent.  
> Just...little overt interest.
> 
> I really am not slamming LOTR, nor fans of the book/film, just 
> curious as to whether I happen to be an oddball around here per that 
> particular diversion of interest.
> 
> Mahoney

Well, I started _The Hobbit_ at recommendation of mother (post reading
HP) for a long car trip.  That lasted about five pages, and I haven't
gone back since.  HOWEVER, I wouldn't MIND seeing the movie, just to
actually know what the whole story is about.  There's so many things
out in te theatres right now I'd really like to see, so I don't know
how high LOTR will be on my list (I don't go to the movies very
often).  I think after I see the movie (if), I might be motivated
enough to go read _Fellowship_ and onward.  It really depends, but
today in rehearsal a lot of people were talking about going to see it
in the next couple days, and I'm just like, "Oh that?  Um, yeah..."
*puzzled look crosses face*.  I find the irony in being whenever I got
all excited over HP, people merely laughed at me, whereas these five
people or so gave me dirty looks at NOT being eager to see
LOTR--sacriledge! :-D  They are two completely different styles of
literature...

-Megan




From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 19 21:03:41 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber ?)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 16:03:41 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Very quietly wondering...LOTR apathy?
Message-ID: <F44lmY6biIn19tQUWtK00009eb2@hotmail.com>


Mega said:
>I think after I see the movie (if), I might be motivated
>enough to go read _Fellowship_ and onward.  It really depends, but
>today in rehearsal a lot of people were talking about going to see it
>in the next couple days, and I'm just like, "Oh that?  Um, yeah..."
>*puzzled look crosses face*.  I find the irony in being whenever I got
>all excited over HP, people merely laughed at me, whereas these five
>people or so gave me dirty looks at NOT being eager to see
>LOTR--sacriledge! :-D  They are two completely different styles of
>literature...

I've read FOTR and it didn't grab me. HOWEVER, I think that's because I 
haven't the best attention span for in-depth world building. And that's what 
it seems that JRRT does in the first book; lots of world building.

I talked to one LOTR fan who said that JRRT wrote LOTR as showcase for his 
languages (apparently, he made up languages as well). It shows. There is a 
lot of description and the action in the first book takes quite awhile to 
actually happen. He really does create a world. I intend to try reading the 
first book again with an eye towards that. His plot IS excellent, however.

HP and LOTR are indeed two completely different styles. While HP will 
probably always have my heart, I'm going to try and develop an appreciation 
for LOTR. And I can't wait to see the movie. The trailers look incredible 
and I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Elijah Wood.

~Amber

********
http://www.the-tabula-rasa.com

"It may help to understand human affairs to be clear that most of the great 
triumphs and tragedies of history are caused, not by people being 
fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, but by people being fundamentally 
people."

-- Neil Gaiman & Terry Pratchett, Good Omens


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.




From bitter_milk at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 19 23:35:29 2001
From: bitter_milk at hotmail.com (yozora_no_onna)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 23:35:29 -0000
Subject: Lord of the Rings
In-Reply-To: <9vqhl9+g8bt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vr881+7pi0@eGroups.com>


> Advice I have heard, and think is not bad, is to skip the Prologue, 
> and even to start as late as the beginning of Book 2 (meaning, 
> the chapter Many Meetings). Later on, once you are quite into it, 
> you can go back and reread the parts you skipped.  
> 


Also, I think that reading the Hobbit first would give a "taste" of 
LOTR, but in a more easily digestable size/length.

I finished the Hobbit first, and then was very eager to read LOTR, 
but found that one much harder to get into too. Frankly, I'm amazed 
at the amazing detail of the world that Tolkien constructed. 
It took me 2 years to finish LOTR (all 3 books) although I put it 
down for quite a while. It needs a lot of concentration to read LOTR, 
whereas Harry Potter is "lighter" fare - I can read HP as a break 
from studying, whereas you _have_ to study LOTR. 
I'm reading the "Silmarillion" right now, I think it explains a lot 
about the legends and myths of Middle Earth. I would only recommend 
the book to huge LOTR fans, because it's very detailed, but then 
again, it helps give a feel for LOTR.. so.. =)
The edition that I own (Houghton Mifflin 2nd edition) also contains 
interesting background information about Tolkien, and his letter to 
Milton Waldman, explaining why he created Middle Earth. 

Movie misc. info: Christopher Lee, who plays Gandalf, actually met 
Tolkien in a pub a long time ago (He also heard Hitler give a speech, 
and he met Marilyn Monroe too). .. It was from the interview with 
Elijah Wood , December's issue of the Face magazine (There are 2 
covers; one is HP, one is LOTR) 



   > Good luck with your efforts and I hope you end up persevering 
> Sofie.
> 

Good luck! It's definitely worth the (immense) effort. 



~miyabi 
============================
@play
http://yurameki.com
@work
http://www.arts.cornell.edu/romance




From Seiryuu_Avatar at msn.com  Thu Dec 20 05:40:18 2001
From: Seiryuu_Avatar at msn.com (Brian Yoon)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:40:18 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Wow.  Just....wow
References: <1F6D80429BD@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <00c801c18918$f61cfd80$7f28fea9@yoonabomber>

Sadly enough, my Midnight premiere experience was marred by a few people.
These people, in the quiet, dramatic parts of the movie (you know what parts
I'm talking about!), kept talking very loudly and irrelevantly.  Horrible.
Just horrible.


But otherwise, the movie was awesome.  The fight scenes...  Oh man.  The
image of the archer-elf (can't remember his name) standing there, shooting
the orcs down one by one as they charge up... Man.

It's on my top 5 list.  (1: Leon the Professional.)

Brian Yoon
aka Seiryuu
H/Her
... who really, Really hates Hobbits
----- Original Message -----
From: Rachel Bray <bray.262 at osu.edu>
To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 3:14 AM
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Wow. Just....wow


> I have no words that are worthy of describing how
> incredible Lord of the Rings was.  Afterwards, we (the
> whole audience) sat there in stunned silence for about 5
> seconds before we jumped to our feet in applause.
>
> People....go see this movie.
>
> I can't  believe I now I have a movie that has finally
> knocked Star Wars off the #1 spot on my all time favorite
> list.
>
>
>
> Rachel Bray
> The Ohio State University
> Fees, Deposits and Disbursements
>
> Adult Ralphie: Meanwhile, I struggled for exactly the
> right BB gun hint. It had to be firm, but subtle.
>
> Young Ralphie: Flick says he saw some grizzly bears
> near Polaski's candy store!
>
> Adult Ralphie: They looked at me as if I had lobsters
> crawling out of my ears. I could tell I was in imminent
> danger of overplaying my hand.
>                            - A Christmas Story
> Happy Holidays!
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material
from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
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From cindysphynx at home.com  Thu Dec 20 14:00:01 2001
From: cindysphynx at home.com (cindysphynx)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:00:01 -0000
Subject: Very quietly wondering...LOTR apathy?
In-Reply-To: <F44lmY6biIn19tQUWtK00009eb2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9vsqt1+gkci@eGroups.com>


> Mega said:
> >I think after I see the movie (if), I might be motivated
> >enough to go read _Fellowship_ and onward.  It really depends, but
> >today in rehearsal a lot of people were talking about going to see 
it
> >in the next couple days, and I'm just like, "Oh that?  Um, yeah..."
> >*puzzled look crosses face*.  

OK, I confess.  I admit it.  Don't tell anyone, but I am apparently 
too much of a lightweight to be interested in LoTR.  I tried, and 
found it downright painful reading.  (I had the same problem 
with "Dune.")  My children saw the trailer and were spooked, and they 
refuse to go see it.  So I'll just wait and try it on video, hoping 
that it sparks my interest in the book series.  

I guess it is my loss.

Cindy




From starling823 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 20 15:26:39 2001
From: starling823 at yahoo.com (Starling)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:26:39 -0500
Subject: more LOTR
References: <1008841493.399.68532.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c1896a$ba9eea00$c574e280@cc.binghamton.edu>

oh gosh....
wow.  just...wow.

whereas i left HP feeling slightly dazed but still able to walk under my own
power, by boyfriend literally had to lift me from my seat, as my friend and
I were still sitting in amazement.

Anyone who has not yet read LOTR, and/or is having a hard time getting into
it, I'd recommend considering the movie.  I have personally only read
Fellowship once -- I was quite ill with a nasty virus in October, and while
stuck in bed I worked my way thru Fellowship in two days.  Am now just
barely into the Two Towers (so please, people, mark spoilers for us <g>) and
hoping I'll have time to read it properly over the holiday break.

Ok.  that was the equivalent of spoiler space.   If there's anyone out there
who *doesn't* know the general plot by  now, stop here.  Or don't, but don't
blame me. :-p
I quite enjoyed the tricks they used to make the hobbits *small*.  The oddly
cut pants were one -- and the extra large wagon wheels was something I read
somewhere.  Anyone else amused by the contrast between Gandalf's and Bilbo's
heights?  I'd love to know what camera tricks were responsible for that --
afaik, in real life those actors are of a height.

I think this movie really benefited from having such a fan at the helm.
Comparing it to HP, as we left the theater, the consensus was that HP felt
like a rush job, compared to LOTR.  And much wiser decisions were made
regarding what to cut and what to keep. I feel as if HP has been cheated, in
comparasion.

Final note -- I'm sure the purists are screaming bloody murder about Arwen,
but who cares?  Liv Tyler was wonderful -- perhaps almost *too* airy, but I
enjoyed her -- and Cate Blanchett as well.  Her scene with Frodo in
Lothlorien was magnificently done -- "I have passed the test..."  ::reminds
self to stop gushing::

Did anyone else notice the ring on Aragorn's hand, when he bid Frodo
farewell?  Is that supposed to be the ring from Galadriel?  Or is this
something that will be cleared up later on?  (ie, I need to really finish
the books?)

I will now be planning a vacation for New Zealand.  The studio should really
be demanding payment for that marvelous commercial for the NZ countryside...
<g>

Now I have to go apoligize to my boyfriend.  He's a bit put out.  You see, I
was grabbing his hand so tightly during the whole Moria scene that I drew
blood!  ::looks ashamed::  I was quite honestly frightened.  I didn't do it
on purpose....he should have said somethign!  But he waited til Boromir
started bellowing, out on the rocks, and *then* showed me his hand!  I
suppose he'll be teasing me about this for ages now....  ::resigns self to
much embarassment amongst peers for reacting in such a way to a mere
movie...::

Eagerly awaiting both HP and LOTR on DVD...

Abbie, who is relieved that the local theaters have student discounts, so
she can afford to eat in between her movie habit.
starling823 at yahoo.com
" 'Not to worry,' she said.  'All you have to do is walk straight at the
barrier between platforms nine and ten.' "
Sorcerer's Stone


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From heathernmoore at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 20 15:53:59 2001
From: heathernmoore at yahoo.com (heathernmoore)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 15:53:59 -0000
Subject: Very quietly wondering...LOTR apathy?
In-Reply-To: <9vsqt1+gkci@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vt1in+eaa3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "cindysphynx" <cindysphynx at h...> wrote:
> 
> > Mega said:
> > >I think after I see the movie (if), I might be motivated
> > >enough to go read _Fellowship_ and onward.  It really depends, 
but
> > >today in rehearsal a lot of people were talking about going to 
see 
> it
> > >in the next couple days, and I'm just like, "Oh that?  Um, 
yeah..."
> > >*puzzled look crosses face*.  
> 
> OK, I confess.  I admit it.  Don't tell anyone, but I am apparently 
> too much of a lightweight to be interested in LoTR.  I tried, and 
> found it downright painful reading.  (I had the same problem 
> with "Dune.")  My children saw the trailer and were spooked, and 
they 
> refuse to go see it.  So I'll just wait and try it on video, hoping 
> that it sparks my interest in the book series.  
> 
> I guess it is my loss.
> 
> Cindy

   Actually, Cindy, it *is* a rather wonderful movie. I never managed 
to finish the books myself, but I've done the CliffsNotes-and-
websites things enough to be fairly well briefed on the story.  
Unlike with the Harry Potter series, as much as I enjoyed FELLOWSHIP, 
it didn't send me tearing through my bookshelves to find my trilogy 
again. 

 BUT it's a fine piece of work.  VERY Peter Jackson; if you liked the 
quirkiness of HEAVENLY CREATURES or THE FRIGHTENERS, you'll 
appreciate his touches here as well.

 -- heather (uma)




From ftah3 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 20 16:08:11 2001
From: ftah3 at yahoo.com (ftah3)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 16:08:11 -0000
Subject: more LOTR
In-Reply-To: <000e01c1896a$ba9eea00$c574e280@cc.binghamton.edu>
Message-ID: <9vt2db+fdfn@eGroups.com>

The discussions of LOTR v. HP are fascinating.  


...I like to read reviews by an American critic named Roger Ebert.  
Even if I like a movie he dislikes or v.v., I'm generally agreeable 
on his points, and I think he has a great eye for what's good and bad 
in a film.  His review of LOTR, unlike those of some other critics, 
doesn't bother to draw a direct comparison of HP.  But if you don't 
mind, I'm going to quote his reviews and show how his comments 
compare between the movies:

Re the movie v. the book:
HP:
"The novel by J.K. Rowling was muscular and vivid, and the danger was 
that the movie would make things too cute and cuddly. It doesn't."
&
"The game [Quidditch], like so much else in the movie, is more or 
less as I visualized it, and I was reminded of Stephen King's theory 
that writers practice a form of telepathy, placing ideas and images 
in the heads of their readers. (The reason some movies don't look 
like their books may be that some producers don't read them.)"

Versus LOTR:
"...the Hobbits themselves have been pushed off center stage. If the 
books are about brave little creatures who enlist powerful men and 
wizards to help them in a dangerous crusade, the movie is about 
powerful men and wizards who embark on a dangerous crusade, and take 
along the Hobbits. That is not true of every scene or episode, but by 
the end "Fellowship" adds up to more of a sword and sorcery epic than 
a realization of the more naive and guileless vision of J. R. R. 
Tolkien."
&
"That "Fellowship of the Ring" doesn't match my imaginary vision of 
Middle-earth is my problem, not yours. Perhaps it will look exactly 
as you think it should. But some may regret that the Hobbits have 
been pushed out of the foreground and reduced to supporting 
characters. And the movie depends on action scenes much more than 
Tolkien did."

Regarding special effects:

HP:
"Although computers can make anything look realistic, too much 
realism would be the wrong choice for "Harry Potter," which is a 
story in which everything, including the sets and locations, should 
look a little made up. The school, rising on ominous Gothic 
battlements from a moonlit lake, looks about as real as Xanadu 
in "Citizen Kane," and its corridors, cellars and great hall, 
although in some cases making use of real buildings, continue the 
feeling of an atmospheric book illustration."

Versus LOTR:
"Jackson has used modern special effects to great purpose in several 
shots, especially one where a massive wall of water forms and reforms 
into the wraiths of charging stallions. I like the way he handles 
crowds of Orcs in the big battle scenes, wisely knowing that in a 
film of this kind, realism has to be tempered with a certain fanciful 
fudging."
But on the other hand,
"The elf Arwen (Liv Tyler), the Elf Queen Galadriel (Cate Blanchett) 
and Arwen's father, Elrond (Hugo Weaving), are not small like 
literary elves ("very tall they were," the book tells us), and here 
they tower like Norse gods and goddesses, accompanied by so much 
dramatic sound and lighting that it's a wonder they can think to 
speak, with all the distractions."

And lastly, re classic? or...Hollywood?

HP:
"During "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone," I was pretty sure I 
was watching a classic, one that will be around for a long time, and 
make many generations of fans. It takes the time to be good. It 
doesn't hammer the audience with easy thrills, but cares to tell a 
story, and to create its characters carefully. Like "The Wizard of 
Oz," "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory," "Star Wars" and "E.T.," 
it isn't just a movie but a world with its own magical rules."

Versus LOTR:
"The Hollywood that made "The Wizard of Oz" might have been equal to 
[making LOTR in keeping with the essence of Tolkein's book]. 
But "Fellowship" is a film that comes after "Gladiator" and "Matrix," 
and it instinctively ramps up to the genre of the overwrought special-
effects action picture."
&
"Peter Jackson, the New Zealand director who masterminded this film 
(and two more to follow, in a $300 million undertaking), has made a 
work for, and of, our times. It will be embraced, I suspect, by many 
Tolkien fans and take on aspects of a cult. It is a candidate for 
many Oscars. It is an awesome production in its daring and breadth, 
and there are small touches that are just right...."
But
"In a statement last week, Tolkien's son Christopher, who is 
the "literary protector" of his father's works, said, "My own 
position is that 'The Lord of the Rings' is peculiarly unsuitable to 
transformation into visual dramatic form." That is probably true, and 
Jackson, instead of transforming it, has transmuted it, into a sword-
and-sorcery epic in the modern style, containing many of the same 
characters and incidents."

Without having seen LOTR, I found his comments still very 
interesting.  On one hand, he expresses quite a bit how I felt about 
HP; and on the other hand, my interest in the film version of LOTR 
remains unchanged, but I'm thinking that I may yet give the book 
another try....

The full reviews can be read at:

HP:
http://www.suntimes.com/ebert/ebert_reviews/2001/11/111601.html

LOTR:
http://www.suntimes.com/output/ebert1/cst-ftr-lord19f.html


Mahoney




From keegan at mcn.org  Thu Dec 20 16:09:46 2001
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:09:46 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Very quietly wondering...LOTR apathy?
In-Reply-To: <9vt1in+eaa3@eGroups.com>
References: <9vsqt1+gkci@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20011220080326.00ac86e0@mail.mcn.org>


>--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "cindysphynx" <cindysphynx at h...> wrote:
> >> OK, I confess.  I admit it.  Don't tell anyone, but I am apparently
> > too much of a lightweight to be interested in LoTR.  I tried, and
> > found it downright painful reading.  (I had the same problem
> > with "Dune.")
> > Cindy

It's worth seeing.  The soundtrack is wonderful.  (Let's can John Williams 
and use this fellow for PoA!   He sets a scene very well and only 
overwhelms it occasionally.)  Great set dressing.  I still don't feel a 
thing for any of the characters but I didn't in the books, either.

Now, I loved Dune, but only the first book.  Huge, ponderous, 
self-important and unintentionally funny at times, it was one of my first 
huge SF novels.

Tip: try not to see LotR with a big Tolkien fan.  I'm married to one and 
got a non stop lecture about the differences between film and book, what 
was better, what this thingy here meant, the languages (which were pretty 
darn cool), the histories from all of the other books, etc... all the way 
home and for quite a bit afterwards.  It was cute but I've already heard 
all about it for weeks.  I wasn't this bad about the HP 
movie.  No!  Honest!  He's settled back into his trilogy which means I can 
put my nose back into GoF and have ammo when I get teased about my obsession.

Happy Holidays!
Catherine in California



From Elementale at aol.com  Thu Dec 20 16:13:10 2001
From: Elementale at aol.com (themajicou)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 16:13:10 -0000
Subject: Very quietly wondering...LOTR apathy?
In-Reply-To: <9vt1in+eaa3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vt2mm+ook4@eGroups.com>

>    Actually, Cindy, it *is* a rather wonderful movie. I never 
managed 
> to finish the books myself, but I've done the CliffsNotes-and-
> websites things enough to be fairly well briefed on the story.  
> Unlike with the Harry Potter series, as much as I enjoyed 
FELLOWSHIP, 
> it didn't send me tearing through my bookshelves to find my trilogy 
> again. 
> 
>  BUT it's a fine piece of work.  VERY Peter Jackson; if you liked 
the 
> quirkiness of HEAVENLY CREATURES or THE FRIGHTENERS, you'll 
> appreciate his touches here as well.
> 
>  -- heather (uma)

I agree. I saw the movie last night at 10:15pm, and although it was a 
good three + hours long, I didn't want it to end! I haven't seen this 
kind of magic in a movie since the original Star Wars at the scene 
when Luke sacks the Death Star. The movie was absoluetly excellent... 
although not entirely accurate. This movie wasn't really The 
Fellowship of the Ring (although I have no problem with that) but a 
mix of the choicest parts between The Fellowship and The Two Towers. 
It was handled beautifully IMO. I had been wondering for months how 
they were going to make the Fellowship interesting, as nothing really 
exciting happens during the first book. I'm pretty sure that the 
Fellowship book ended when the Black Riders/Ringwraiths were dehorsed 
at the river.

Majicou-------------------------




From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Thu Dec 20 17:36:13 2001
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:36:13 -0000
Subject: more LOTR
In-Reply-To: <000e01c1896a$ba9eea00$c574e280@cc.binghamton.edu>
Message-ID: <9vt7id+loj9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter, "Starling"/Abbie wrote:

Maintaining the caveat that some spoilers of the book may be 
contained herein:

[snip]

> I think this movie really benefited from having such a fan at
> the helm.  Comparing it to HP, as we left the theater, the
> consensus was that HP felt like a rush job, compared to LOTR.
> And much wiser decisions were made regarding what to cut and
> what to keep. I feel as if HP has been cheated, in comparasion.

As I at present have yet to see LotR at the silver screen (am going 
tomorrow evening), I cannot now compare the two movies.  I do agree, 
however, that the HP movie was not that well thought out, and would 
have benefited from better use of the axe.

[snip]

> Did anyone else notice the ring on Aragorn's hand, when he bid
> Frodo farewell?  Is that supposed to be the ring from
> Galadriel?  Or is this something that will be cleared up
> later on?  (ie, I need to really finish the books?)

As I haven't seen the movie at present, I haven't had an opportunity 
to see the scene you mention.  I believe I know which ring you are 
talking about, though, and as I recall it was not mentioned 
explicitly in the story itself, although an account was given in the 
appendices of LotR, and it is mentioned in other works of JRRT as 
well.  It is possible that this will be cleared up later, though I do 
not know for sure.

[snip] 

> Now I have to go apoligize to my boyfriend.  He's a bit put
> out.  You see, I was grabbing his hand so tightly during the
> whole Moria scene that I drew blood!  

[snip]

Well, between this and the fact that the Norwegian viewers of this 
movie only had one complaint - that the movie was much too short - I 
feel sure that I shall have a great experience tomorrow evening.

Finally, about that ring again (Significant spoiler ahead):

TH
US
IF
EE
LC
OM
PE
LL
ED
TO
IN
CL
UD
EA
SP
OI
LE
RS
PA
CE
HE
RE


The ring Aragorn carried is, I believe, Barahir's ring, one of three 
heirlooms passed down among Aragorn's predescessors for more than 
7000 (seven thousand) years, quite possibly as long as 10 000 years.  
It was given by one of the Elven princes to the human Barahir a very 
long time ago, when the world was quite different from the way it was 
in the time of LotR, and Sauron was but an apprentice of a much 
greater Dark Lord - Morgoth.  The ring was one of three heirlooms 
that were carried by the kings of the Dunedain in the Third Age.

As I understand it, the ring was passed on to Aragorn, who then gave 
it to Arwen for her to keep as a sign of his love for her.  Arwen 
then returned the ring to Aragorn during his last stay in Lothlorien, 
before he moved on with the fellowship.  Arwen is the daughter of 
Elrond and Galadriel's daughter Celebrian.

Best regards
Christian Stub?




From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Thu Dec 20 17:50:21 2001
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:50:21 -0000
Subject: Very quietly wondering...LOTR apathy?
In-Reply-To: <9vt2mm+ook4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vt8ct+ecph@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter, "themajicou" wrote:

[snip]

> I had been wondering for months how they were going to make
> the Fellowship interesting, as nothing really exciting
> happens during the first book. I'm pretty sure that the
> Fellowship book ended when the Black Riders/Ringwraiths
> were dehorsed at the river.
> 
> Majicou-------------------------

In the books, "The Fellowship of the Ring" ends some way after 
Lothlorien.  They story up to the end of "The Fellowship of the Ring" 
is fairly continuous and cronological - everything that takes place 
in "The Two Towers" takes place after the events in "The Fellowship 
of the Ring", as far as I know.  "The Fellowship of the Ring" 
consists of two books however (LotR consists of six books, divided in 
three volumes), and the first book is the one that ends at the river.

Best regards
Christian Stub?
Who will bring LotR and Silmarillion with him to re-read on the night-
train and the passengership that will bring him home for Christmas.




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Thu Dec 20 13:23:49 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 13:23:49 EST5EDT
Subject: JKR on MSNBC "...of the Year" poll
Message-ID: <21100B30637@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

On MSNBC website they have a poll going for Person of the 
Year in different categories.  JKR is listed for 
Entertainment and she's winning so far with 37% of the 
votes.  She's up against Paul McCartney, Julia Roberts, 
George Harrison and Oprah Winfrey.  George is second with 
21%.



Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

The most heartbreaking thing about faithful moviegoing
is that awe, beauty and excitement, three of the things
we go to the movies for, are the very things we're 
cheated of the most. The great wonder of "The Lord of the
Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring" is that it bathes us 
in all three, to the point where we remember -- in a 
vague, pleasurably hallucinatory sensation from another 
lifetime -- why we go to the movies in the first place. 



From virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 20 18:29:02 2001
From: virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com (virtualworldofhp)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:29:02 -0000
Subject: JKR on MSNBC "...of the Year" poll
In-Reply-To: <21100B30637@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9vtale+u790@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> On MSNBC website they have a poll going for Person of the 
> Year in different categories.  JKR is listed for 
> Entertainment and she's winning so far with 37% of the 
> votes.  She's up against Paul McCartney, Julia Roberts, 
> George Harrison and Oprah Winfrey.  George is second with 
> 21%.

I really have never understood these things.  Granted, JKR is a
marvelous author, but how could she win Entertainer of the Year 2001?
 She hasn't done anything THIS year!  Do you see my logic?  If she
should win awards, it should be for the times she's doing things--like
2000 for the release of GOF.  Maybe I'm just too logical.

-Megan




From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Thu Dec 20 18:55:10 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:55:10 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] more LOTR
References: <1008841493.399.68532.m12@yahoogroups.com> <000e01c1896a$ba9eea00$c574e280@cc.binghamton.edu>
Message-ID: <002301c18988$20de9460$933470c2@c5s910j>

Starling said:

> whereas i left HP feeling slightly dazed but still able to walk under my
own
> power, by boyfriend literally had to lift me from my seat, as my friend
and
> I were still sitting in amazement.
>
> Anyone who has not yet read LOTR, and/or is having a hard time getting
into
> it, I'd recommend considering the movie.

Oh, bum...  I really must see this tomorrow night at the very latest.  I
simply can't wait.  I bought the official movie guide and a brand new boxed
set of the three parts of LOTR (still in its wrapper) and I'm starting to
think Elijah Wood is cuter than Sean Biggerstaff...

I keep telling myself that I *must, must, must* read the book before I see
the film, but I'm such a slow reader (not literally, but I snatch moments
here and there rather than settling down for solid hours), that it's
unlikely that the film will still be in cinemas by the time I'm ready for
it.   Hell's bells...

Twice in my life, I've got about a third of the way through LOTR (which
probably amounts to Fellowship of The Ring, doesn't it?), but it's more than
20 years since I even looked at it, so I can't remember much detail.  I
think I can cheat, though, and say that I've read the book.  I can, can't I?
Please tell me I can go and still sleep at nights...

Neil





From bray.262 at osu.edu  Thu Dec 20 14:19:39 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:19:39 EST5EDT
Subject: *giggling like a little girl...*
Message-ID: <211EF13270E@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

I just got a my "Secret Santa" gift.  Someone got me the 
Forbidden Corridor section of the Hogwarts Playset!

HAHAHAAA!

It's so cute.  It's now set up in my cubicle and people 
keep coming by to play with it.  :-)  I think I'll leave it 
here in my Harry shrine.  I'm afraid my ferret will get 
ahold of one of the pieces and carry it off to her hidey 
place and I'll never see it again if I take it home.

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

The most heartbreaking thing about faithful moviegoing
is that awe, beauty and excitement, three of the things
we go to the movies for, are the very things we're 
cheated of the most. The great wonder of "The Lord of the
Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring" is that it bathes us 
in all three, to the point where we remember -- in a 
vague, pleasurably hallucinatory sensation from another 
lifetime -- why we go to the movies in the first place. 



From dracos_boyfriend at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Dec 20 21:23:25 2001
From: dracos_boyfriend at yahoo.co.uk (dracos_boyfriend)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 21:23:25 -0000
Subject: JKR Backlash ... was JKR on MSNBC "...of the Year" poll
In-Reply-To: <9vtale+u790@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vtksd+ukf0@eGroups.com>

"I really have never understood these things.  Granted, JKR is a
marvelous author, but how could she win Entertainer of the Year 2001?
She hasn't done anything THIS year!  Do you see my logic?  If she
should win awards, it should be for the times she's doing things--like
2000 for the release of GOF.  Maybe I'm just too logical."

I completely and utterly agree.  You're not too logical, you're 
completely right.  In fact, I kind of see this as a wider trend in 
the fandom as a whole.  There is some sort of backlash growing.  We 
all know and appreciate that scripting, casting, consulting and 
filming the movie took a lot of time, and took up time that could 
have been used to write Book 5.  However, now that the hype has 
actually faded again to a more tolerable background level - Joanne 
seems to still be bouncing around the place giving more and more 
interviews and descending still further into tacky publicity.  

She has all the money a person could reasonably want in this life 
now - there is no need for all this stuff - and I really think it is 
time for her to sit down and bloody finish the book.  We have been 
waiting 18 months now and it has frankly stopped being funny - and 
yet she persists in making these tawdry TV specials.  She is becoming 
an active publicity seeker, and it pains me to see her going down 
this road, because it is barely a step away from demanding 'peeled 
white fruit' (Jennifer Lopez) or 'rose petals scattered on the 
toilet' (Barbara Streisand).  I would really hate to see her 
corrupted by the media world, but I really fear that, in my eyes, she 
is clearly not strong enough to resist it.

To add gravitas to my point, yesterday, I was in the Warner Brothers 
Store in my local shopping mall (they're not closing the British ones 
down, for some reason nobody has made quite clear yet) and the Harry 
Potter section was taking up about half of a considerably sized 
retail unit.  There were (and are still) a lot of things I approve 
of - I love the cuddly toys, I love the action figures (and I've been 
collecting them), I think the Lego sets are quite a neat idea, T-
shirts are fine, baseball caps are fine, pyjamas are fine (I'd 
actually quite like some of those, but there aren't any in adult 
sizes), stationary is also fine.

Then I saw Harry Potter skateboards ...

Let's just consider the image, there.  Harry Potter and 
skateboards ... in my opinion, and please yell at me if I'm wrong in 
*any* way ... belong to two completely different subsections of 
children's culture ... if I were to go up to the kind of child who 
uses a skateboard in Britain, and ask him what he thought of Harry 
Potter, he would likely laugh at me ... I just thought that the very 
idea was so, so tacky.  And Joanne put her seal of approval on this 
piece of wheeled tat??  It makes me sad ... very, very sad.

I'd genuinely like to know what you guys think of the marketing hype, 
and JK herself at this point in time.  Do you agree that there's 
potential for a backlash, or not?  If not, why not?  Are people in 
the fandom beginning to get bored with Harry?  Are we suffering from 
burn-out?

Al

---
AR: In the Shakespeare play, what was the name of the king who was 
killed by MacBeth?
Contestant: Hamlet.
- The Weakest Link
---




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Thu Dec 20 16:27:51 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 16:27:51 EST5EDT
Subject: well folks...
Message-ID: <21411E77E77@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

I'm outta here for a week or so and therefore, away from 
the computer, too.

So, as I chomp on my third candy cane of the day, I just 
wanted to send my warmest wishes for a happy holiday to 
everyone here.  May you get to spend some quality time with 
your family and friends and enjoy the spirit of the season. 
 
A warm hug and peppermint flavored kiss to you all!

Merry Christmas

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

The most heartbreaking thing about faithful moviegoing
is that awe, beauty and excitement, three of the things
we go to the movies for, are the very things we're 
cheated of the most. The great wonder of "The Lord of the
Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring" is that it bathes us 
in all three, to the point where we remember -- in a 
vague, pleasurably hallucinatory sensation from another 
lifetime -- why we go to the movies in the first place. 



From sjbranford at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Dec 20 22:04:22 2001
From: sjbranford at tiscali.co.uk (Simon)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 22:04:22 -0000
Subject: Scarves
In-Reply-To: <1008755038.339.32866.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <LOBBLGEGEBLNEOFHCDINCEEIEDAA.sjbranford@tiscali.co.uk>

yozora_no_onna: <<<I know Cambridge has striped scarves too, but I'm not
sure how that works.>>>

Oxford and Cambridge universities are split into many different colleges.
It is these colleges that have their own scarves. Most are striped, but I
am not totally certain that they all are.



Dai: <<<The bloody scarf [Southampton Uni Scarf] had cost 15.>>>

I paid more than that for my scarf and I also try to get a lot of use out
of it.



Simon




From pbnesbit at msn.com  Fri Dec 21 02:47:14 2001
From: pbnesbit at msn.com (harpdreamer)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 02:47:14 -0000
Subject: JKR Backlash ... was JKR on MSNBC "...of the Year" poll
In-Reply-To: <9vtksd+ukf0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vu7ri+s76g@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "dracos_boyfriend" 
<dracos_boyfriend at y...> wrote:
> 
> (Snip)
> 
> She has all the money a person could reasonably want in this life 
> now - there is no need for all this stuff - and I really think it 
is 
> time for her to sit down and bloody finish the book.  We have been 
> waiting 18 months now and it has frankly stopped being funny - and 
> yet she persists in making these tawdry TV specials.  She is 
becoming 
> an active publicity seeker, and it pains me to see her going down 
> this road, because it is barely a step away from demanding 'peeled 
> white fruit' (Jennifer Lopez) or 'rose petals scattered on the 
> toilet' (Barbara Streisand).  I would really hate to see her 
> corrupted by the media world, but I really fear that, in my eyes, 
she 
> is clearly not strong enough to resist it.

Totally agree, Al.  Maybe someone should direct her to a dungeon, 
lock the door & tell her she can't come out until she's finished 
writing the next book.

(Snip) 

> 
>  Then I saw Harry Potter skateboards ...
> 
> Let's just consider the image, there.  Harry Potter and 
> skateboards ... in my opinion, and please yell at me if I'm wrong 
in 
> *any* way ... belong to two completely different subsections of 
> children's culture ... if I were to go up to the kind of child who 
> uses a skateboard in Britain, and ask him what he thought of Harry 
> Potter, he would likely laugh at me ... I just thought that the 
very 
> idea was so, so tacky.  And Joanne put her seal of approval on this 
> piece of wheeled tat??  It makes me sad ... very, very sad.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure Joanne has that 
much say-so over merchandise or marketing.  I think that's all WBs 
doing.  
> 
> I'd genuinely like to know what you guys think of the marketing 
hype, 
> and JK herself at this point in time.  Do you agree that there's 
> potential for a backlash, or not?  If not, why not?  Are people in 
> the fandom beginning to get bored with Harry?  Are we suffering 
from 
> burn-out?
> 
> Al

I think a lot of the merchandise is atrocious (& that's putting it 
mildly).  I've got quite a bit of it, but I'm very, very picky about 
what I buy.  I wish there was more clothing in adult sizes (I've got 
two lovely t-shirts, courtesy of Scott.  I'd like more, but can't 
find them).  I think a lot of the hype is because of the slow economy 
(at least here in the States).  However, here in Charleston, it's 
quite hard to find.  

I wouldn't really call it burn-out.  It's been 18 months since GoF & 
we're likely not to have OoP in our hot little hands until at least 
September of next year. A lot of us may simply have turned our 
attention to other books, other movies, other merchandise.  (Not me, 
however.  My shrine...er, office is filled with all things HP)

Peace & Plenty, 

Parker  
> 
> ---
> AR: In the Shakespeare play, what was the name of the king who was 
> killed by MacBeth?
> Contestant: Hamlet.
> - The Weakest Link
> ---




From bitter_milk at hotmail.com  Fri Dec 21 03:42:43 2001
From: bitter_milk at hotmail.com (yozora_no_onna)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 03:42:43 -0000
Subject: more LOTR
In-Reply-To: <9vt7id+loj9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vub3j+o50a@eGroups.com>


I just got back from the cinema. 

I first watched Lord of the Rings, and then went to watch Harry 
Potter (for the third time).  It was really amazing, the difference 
in these two productions. 

I think Lord of the Rings, as a film, was much better than the film 
of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer/Philosopher's Stone. It seemed more 
real and full of emotion. To be honest, there were parts of the HP 
film where I felt it was rather contrived (This was mainly because I 
felt that Dan Radcliffe, although he looks the part, still needs a 
lot of practice; I felt that there wasn't much emotion in his 
characterisation.)

I was frankly, blown away by LOTR. I don't know how much it conforms 
to Tolkien's own vision, but I thought it was a fantastic movie. 

Even Liv Tyler, although I didn't like her earlier work, I liked her 
as Arwen. :)

The CG and scenery are very realistic; sometimes it was a little too 
much like a RPG video game though...


> 
> > Now I have to go apoligize to my boyfriend.  He's a bit put
> > out.  You see, I was grabbing his hand so tightly during the
> > whole Moria scene that I drew blood!  

For me, that scene wasn't scary at all. 
I found the part in Rivendell, with Bilbo and Frodo, that part was 
the most frightening! 



> Well, between this and the fact that the Norwegian viewers of this 
> movie only had one complaint - that the movie was much too short - 


Yes!! Even though it's 3 hours, it's not nearly long enough. 
It's very frustrating knowing that the other 2 films are finished but 
it's not being released until the end of next year! 
I shall die of impatience~~~! *laugh* 

Viggo Mortensen was very good too, I thought. Cate Blanchett too, as 
always. 




~miyabi
=======================
http://yurameki.com




From alyeskakc at netzero.net  Fri Dec 21 04:33:38 2001
From: alyeskakc at netzero.net (alyeskakc)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 04:33:38 -0000
Subject: JKR Backlash ... was JKR on MSNBC "...of the Year" poll
In-Reply-To: <9vu7ri+s76g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vue32+4lk9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "harpdreamer" <pbnesbit at m...> wrote:

> 
> (Snip) 
> Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure Joanne has that 
> much say-so over merchandise or marketing.  I think that's all WBs 
> doing.

I was watching People's 25 most intriguing people Tuesday night, one 
of whom was JKR. Anyway in the segment they said she has pretty much 
total control over merchandising and/or marketing of all things 
Potter, including final say over the WB. They also said she will more 
than likely become the first billionare author, she already has more 
money than the Queen.


--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "dracos_boyfriend" 
<dracos_boyfriend at y...> wrote:

> > I'd genuinely like to know what you guys think of the marketing 
> hype, and JK herself at this point in time.  Do you agree that 
there's potential for a backlash, or not?  If not, why not?  Are 
people in the fandom beginning to get bored with Harry?  Are we 
suffering from burn-out?


I can see a huge potential for backlash on several fronts. People are 
getting restless for OoP to come out and the further she keeps 
pushing that back, the worse things in the fandom are going to get 
I'm afraid.  I think we're already starting to see some 
manifestations of this in the fandom now. People are getting bored 
with the same old subjects rehash and they're starting to get a bit 
cross with each other, especially in the ship wars.

The marketing hype could come back to bite her as well. The more she 
falls into the "Lockhart Zone" and doesn't work on the next three 
books, then the more irratated the fandom will become and conceivably 
decide not to read the remaining books out of spite.  As much as I 
enjoyed the movie and everyone in it, I wish now that she would have 
waited until at least the 5th (if not 6th) book was out before taking 
on a movie deal. 

Another worry is how will all this pubilcity and attention effect the 
remaining story? Will she stay true to the orginal story arc or will 
she start to drift to some marketing focus group mold from hell? 
After all this is a franchise now and certain perceptions must be 
maintained. HP has the potential to be just as big and maybe bigger 
than Star Wars, but the marketing has to be strictly controlled and 
regulated. Lucas has this down to a fine art, which is why the SW 
franchise has endured for almost 25 years and counting.  Hopefully 
we'll be talking about HP for at least that long as well.

Cheers,
Kristin






From catlady at wicca.net  Fri Dec 21 04:37:47 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 04:37:47 -0000
Subject: JKR Backlash ... was JKR on MSNBC "...of the Year" poll
In-Reply-To: <9vtksd+ukf0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vuear+at2l@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "dracos_boyfriend" wrote:
> 
> Then I saw Harry Potter skateboards ...

Made to look like a Nimbus 2000 broomstick, thus explaining why Harry 
stood on his broomstick in the Quidditch match in the movie?
> 
> Harry Potter and skateboards ... in my opinion, and please yell at 
> me if I'm wrong in *any* way ... belong to two completely different 
> subsections of children's culture ... if I were to go up to the 
> kind of child who uses a skateboard in Britain, and ask him what he
> thought of Harry Potter, he would likely laugh at me ... 

I had the impression that the mad-bites-dog aspect of the HP boom was 
that normal children also love these books, not just bookish or 
imaginative or intelligent childish, but ordinary stupid 
fashion-loving sports-loving Britney-Spears-loving 
lowbrow bully children.




From cindysphynx at home.com  Fri Dec 21 04:49:40 2001
From: cindysphynx at home.com (cindysphynx)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 04:49:40 -0000
Subject: Can the Yahoo ads get more intrusive?
Message-ID: <9vuf14+95v5@eGroups.com>

Yup.  I just clicked on a post in webview, and I was taken to a full-
page ad.  I had to click again to go to the message.

I wish I could remember the product so that I could boycott it.  

Cindy (who may finally be forced to do something drastic like go on 
daily digest)




From Schlobin at aol.com  Fri Dec 21 05:27:00 2001
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 05:27:00 -0000
Subject: Very quietly wondering...LOTR apathy?
In-Reply-To: <9vt8ct+ecph@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vuh74+ob2f@eGroups.com>

The movie was breathtaking. 
It was far, far, better than the PS/SS movie.
Before you shoot me, remember that I love HP, have read all the books
a dozen times and listened to both versions of the audiotapes half a 
dozen times.

If you haven't been able to read LOTR, I would love to give you the 
gift of reading it. I wasn't able to "get into" it for a while..I was 
25 before I read it..and didn't really get into it until the third or 
fourth reading. (I couldn't get past Bilbo Baggin's birthday party 
for the longest time). It is an extraordinary set of books. I know 
that some say that Tolkien, a philologist, did it to showcase his 
languages (no one took him seriously at the university because he 
drank beer, and sang drinking songs in Old Norse), but my reading of 
what Tolkien said was that he was creating history, and was creating 
a mythology. The books are absolutely for grownups.

Also, I'd like to recommend the BBC audiotape --- they did a 
wonderful job, and it's a painless way of absorbing the plot.

The movie was astonishing. The sets in New Zealand were incredible -- 
achingly beautiful in some spots. The Shire was as I had always 
imagined it.

Ian McKellan deserves an Oscar..his range of emotions, from 
affection, and love, kindliness to his stand against the Balrog where 
his power emerged....amazing...the special effects were 
wonderful...although I had to laugh..they too had a troll (looked 
similar to the HP troll), and the people who jumped on its back 
looked just as bad as HP did...!

However, they invented a type of chain mail that is more authentic 
that actors can wear.

The movie is frightening. I was scared. The Black Riders are truly 
terrifying...the orc of Saruman is, too....there are some scenes of 
tortures and lots and lots of battles...

Parents, I'd check it out before you took your kids....

The NY Times review of the movie and the Salon review are particulary 
helpful.

Susan




From Elementale at aol.com  Fri Dec 21 05:57:34 2001
From: Elementale at aol.com (themajicou)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 05:57:34 -0000
Subject: Very quietly wondering...LOTR apathy?
In-Reply-To: <9vuh74+ob2f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vuj0e+uja3@eGroups.com>

 
> Parents, I'd check it out before you took your kids....


Yes yes please do! When I first saw it on Wednesday (I've seen it 
twice already!!!!!!) I caught the 10:15pm showing. I saw families 
there with very young, obviously frightened, tired kids. LOTR is bound 
to give them nightmares for a long time. I simply could not believe 
the audacity of these parents to drag their small (I'm talking 5ish) 
children to a scary, 3 hour movie that ends at 1:30am. Poor kids. 

Majicou---------------




From Elementale at aol.com  Fri Dec 21 06:13:25 2001
From: Elementale at aol.com (themajicou)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 06:13:25 -0000
Subject: Impatience (HP backlash)
Message-ID: <9vuju5+a44c@eGroups.com>

I am also growing furiously impatient with JKR. If she doesn't 
complete the books soon, I'm going to have to pick up my pen and 
finish them myself! I'm not sure though, if the world would appreciate 
Snape saving the world and becoming the head of the MoM :). Oh well, 
anything's better then nothing I suppose.
In my stir crazy fury, I have taken to reading Robert Jordan's Wheel 
of Time books. I think I'll be kept busy for at least a few months.

*** has else anyone noticed that Robert Jordan has totally ripped off 
Tolkien? I mean, most fantasy books are inspired by Tolkien's worlds, 
but I think Jordan is taking a few too many liberties (books are still 
good IMO). Both worlds have black riders, beast-like men footsoldiers,  
a bad place named Mt Doom that just happens to be a volcano, and a 
long plot that involves people running across the world trying to get 
somewhere while being chased. There are many more. I know I've just 
trampled upon a few toes, but I just have to laugh at the terribly 
obvious similarities. (don't worry future Jordan fans, I didn't spoil 
anything right now!)

Majicou (awaiting the onslaught)--




From Seiryuu_Avatar at msn.com  Fri Dec 21 07:10:19 2001
From: Seiryuu_Avatar at msn.com (Brian Yoon)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:10:19 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Impatience (HP backlash)
References: <9vuju5+a44c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <004501c189ee$ae440680$7f28fea9@yoonabomber>

From: themajicou <Elementale at aol.com>


> *** has else anyone noticed that Robert Jordan has totally ripped off
> Tolkien? I mean, most fantasy books are inspired by Tolkien's worlds,
> but I think Jordan is taking a few too many liberties (books are still
> good IMO). Both worlds have black riders, beast-like men footsoldiers,
> a bad place named Mt Doom that just happens to be a volcano, and a
> long plot that involves people running across the world trying to get
> somewhere while being chased. There are many more. I know I've just
> trampled upon a few toes, but I just have to laugh at the terribly
> obvious similarities. (don't worry future Jordan fans, I didn't spoil
> anything right now!)
>
> Majicou (awaiting the onslaught)--

Lol- here's the first reply.  Not so much a scolding, or anything of the
sort, but just disagreement.

1st: Black riders.  Can't really escape black riders in fantasy works.
Might as well say he copied Terry Brooks flying creatures (can't remember
their names) in his draghkar; beast-like footsoldiers = orcs and trolls from
Brooks; might as well say he copied his "Spine of the World" from other such
fantasy books (or did Legend of the Five Rings copy off of him?); how about
copying the long-chasing off of The Sword of Shannara?  (Excuse my apparent
obsession w/ the Shannara series- it's the only one I can really think of at
the moment.)

Let's face it- there's a set group of things that happen in all fantasy
books, much like the prostitute-with-a-heart-of-gold archetype and the
gruff-thief-who-really-is-a-nice-guy theme.  The running away doesn't happen
for too long in the WoT series, anyway: after the 1st book, it really
changes in theme.

Anyway, it's not really blatant ripping.  It's a familiarity in all fantasy
works that can hardly be avoided in _any_ fantasy book.

Brian Yoon
... Who finished all 9 books of WoT in a weekend




From Seiryuu_Avatar at msn.com  Fri Dec 21 07:15:52 2001
From: Seiryuu_Avatar at msn.com (Brian Yoon)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:15:52 -0800
Subject: Adobe Garamonde
Message-ID: <008501c189f1$193f7f80$7f28fea9@yoonabomber>

Does anyone have this font that they can point me to a website that has it?
Or can anyone send it to me?


Thanks,

Brian Yoon




From Seiryuu_Avatar at msn.com  Fri Dec 21 07:27:45 2001
From: Seiryuu_Avatar at msn.com (Brian Yoon)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:27:45 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] more LOTR
References: <1008841493.399.68532.m12@yahoogroups.com> <000e01c1896a$ba9eea00$c574e280@cc.binghamton.edu>
Message-ID: <008601c189f1$1ddc8740$7f28fea9@yoonabomber>

I suppose this has some spoilers for people who haven't watched the movie.
Not big ones.

Abbie wrote:

> I think this movie really benefited from having such a fan at the helm.
> Comparing it to HP, as we left the theater, the consensus was that HP felt
> like a rush job, compared to LOTR.  And much wiser decisions were made
> regarding what to cut and what to keep. I feel as if HP has been cheated,
in
> comparasion.

Perhaps LotR made very good decisions in choosing what to cut out and such,
but it seemed to me, a non-reader, very hurried.  I'm not exactly sure what
I mean by that, but it seems a bit esoteric.  Were we supposed to know of
"Striker" and his liason with that elf-girl?  I was left thinking... what
the?

Oh, and I noticed they made Gandalf a bit less competent in the movie.  In
the book (I read very little of the book.., so forgive me if I get this
wrong), he knew about Bilbo's ring, and the fact that it was evil. In the
movie, he doesn't know anything about it, and he's surprised at what he
uncovers.  And he doesn't do any flashy magic!

> Final note -- I'm sure the purists are screaming bloody murder about
Arwen,

My Final note: is Frodo _really_ that odd in the book?  Hobbits, also.  They
can't seem to do _anything_.  They just get ripped in over and over.  I
mean, it is quite shocking to have Frodo hit- but the whole dramatics gets a
bit odd after the first one.  I know it was to make us see the importance of
him- but hell!  It seems a bit... melodramatic.

Brian Yoon
... who can't seem to get the picture of that elf-acher dude shooting the
orcs down as they come to him on that hill, one by one




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri Dec 21 08:50:27 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 08:50:27 -0000
Subject: Skatecoards and broomsticks (was and is backlash)
In-Reply-To: <9vtksd+ukf0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vut4j+k08n@eGroups.com>

Al wrote:
> 
> Then I saw Harry Potter skateboards ...
> 
> Let's just consider the image, there.  Harry Potter and 
> skateboards ... in my opinion, and please yell at me if I'm wrong 
in 
> *any* way ... belong to two completely different subsections of 
> children's culture ... if I were to go up to the kind of child who 
> uses a skateboard in Britain, and ask him what he thought of Harry 
> Potter, he would likely laugh at me ... I just thought that the 
very 
> idea was so, so tacky.  

Well, my 13yo is a keen (if only moderately skilled) skateboarder, 
loved the HP movie, and reread GOF after watching it.  He is also 
fairly careful to manage his image - more so than his parents and 
probably even his sister.  My guess is that he chooses his moments 
for one or the other.  He doesn't have to talk about HP when 
skateboarding.  The HP skateboards might therefore be a marketing 
failure - though quite possibly younger kids would be quite happy to 
get one - but I don't see the idea as fundamentally flawed, except in 
the sense that all merchandising is.

> Do you agree that there's 
> potential for a backlash, or not?  If not, why not?  Are people in 
> the fandom beginning to get bored with Harry?  Are we suffering 
from 
> burn-out?

I also think JKR has already got a bit of a reputation as a recluse, 
so if she emerges and does an interview at Christmas it's hardly the 
final dissolution of the world as we know it.  She now faces the 
dilemma of all famous people - if she responds to public demand , 
she's a publicity-hungry media manipulator; if she doesn't, she's a 
sulky recluse who doesn't appreciate that it's from the fans that 
she's made her money.

What we the fans would like is for her to be on-tap 24 hour a day to 
answer all our detailed questions about Hermione's age, while writing 
the next three books like a maniac.  I think the answer must be to 
lobby for cloning of human beings to be legalised as fast as possible 
as these silly medical ethical objections are clearly interfering 
with our fundamental human right to enjoy ourselves this instant.

David




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Fri Dec 21 10:42:46 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 10:42:46 -0000
Subject: more LOTR, incl. Galadriel's ring
In-Reply-To: <008601c189f1$1ddc8740$7f28fea9@yoonabomber>
Message-ID: <9vv3n7+996m@eGroups.com>

Brian wrote:
 
> Perhaps LotR made very good decisions in choosing what to cut out 
and such,
> but it seemed to me, a non-reader, very hurried.  I'm not exactly 
sure what
> I mean by that, but it seems a bit esoteric.  Were we supposed to 
know of
> "Striker" and his liason with that elf-girl?  I was left thinking... 
what
> the?

I thought it left out SO much dialogue that I wondered how anyone who 
hadn't read the book understood any of the characters.  Frodo, Sam, 
Gandalf, and Boromir (I am now firmly in the 
Sean-Bean-for-Sirius-Black camp) are the only ones who get real 
character development.  For three hours of movie, I thought we 
could've learned more about the characters and less about the 
landscape, as much as I loved every second of the landscape.  (Note to 
self:  move to New Zealand ASAP.)  Ooh, and the sets were incredible. 
 I almost cried when I saw Lothlorien, it was so beautiful, which 
seems like the appropriate reaction.

> Oh, and I noticed they made Gandalf a bit less competent in the 
movie.  In
> the book (I read very little of the book.., so forgive me if I get 
this
> wrong), he knew about Bilbo's ring, and the fact that it was evil. 
In the
> movie, he doesn't know anything about it, and he's surprised at what 
he
> uncovers.  

>And he doesn't do any flashy magic!

They added that whole sequence in Moria with half the Fellowship 
(finally just Strider and Frodo) being stuck on the upper part of the 
stairs--none of that is in the book--and I wanted to scream, "Gandalf, 
you're a wizard, can't you throw out a magic rope or something?!"

Abbie, I wondered about Aragorn's ring too, but it isn't Galadriel's; 
she is still wearing hers when she waves them goodbye, and it's the 
same one she had in the quick flash of the three Elvenrings in the 
preface.  I'm pretty sure Aragorn isn't going to turn out to be a 
Ringwraith <g> (wasn't it SO COOL when Frodo had the ring on and saw 
their faces?).

Amy




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Fri Dec 21 10:50:41 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 10:50:41 -0000
Subject: what Gandalf knew and when he knew it
In-Reply-To: <9vv3n7+996m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vv461+ptou@eGroups.com>

Forgot to put this in my last post.

Brian wrote:

> > In
> > the book (I read very little of the book.., so forgive me if I get 
> this
> > wrong), he knew about Bilbo's ring, and the fact that it was evil. 
> In the
> > movie, he doesn't know anything about it, and he's surprised at 
what 
> he
> > uncovers. 

In the book, he suspects but does not know that the ring is the One 
Ring.  He really does have to go do the research and then isn't 
completely sure until he goes back to Frodo and throws it into the 
fire.  If this makes him seem a bit dim, remember that the Ring was 
lost *3000 years ago* when Isildur was killed (he's the guy who took 
it from Sauron's body on the battlefield).  Even someone like Gandalf, 
who knows the Ring is more than a legend and knows that it longs to 
return to Sauron, isn't going to think "Aha! The Ring of Power!" every 
time he hears about a magic ring.

Amy




From hfakhro at nyc.rr.com  Fri Dec 21 03:40:58 2001
From: hfakhro at nyc.rr.com (Hella Fakhro)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 22:40:58 -0500
Subject: Ebert's review/my take on LOTR
Message-ID: <002e01c189d1$5f559920$cffe6c42@nyc.rr.com>

I posted this on webview earlier this afternoon and it doesn't seem to have gone through - if it comes twice, my apologies.
I saw FOTR last night and it was amazing, really I was stunned by the film. I did read Ebert's review, I see his complaint about the film was that it didn't follow too closely to the book whereas the HP film was a truer adaptation. (If I'm mistaken about what he's saying, please correct me.) If you're going to compare the two (which I probably shouldn't do as they're very different types, but oh well) I would say that Peter Jackson breathed life into that movie unlike Columbus with Harry.

I never perceived that the hobbits were pushed out of center stage by the people, elves, etc. And I never got the feeling that the elves "tower like Norse gods and goddesses, accompanied by so much dramatic sound and lighting that it's a wonder they can think to speak, with all the distractions." It's a very *grand* movie but it's also very intimate and never strays away from the essentials: the characters. The focus is always on Frodo, and I expect Merry and Pippin and Sam will have more focus in the later movies as their roles expand. 

Maybe because I am not too attached to the Lord of the Rings books, I don't have any problem with the adaptation of a beloved book, so comparing it to Harry Potter where I love the books but thought they butchered the movie is probably not a good idea. Someone more objective would probably have a more balanced opinion. Here's an interesting quote, which I found myself agreeing with from the salon.com review:

"The Fellowship of the Ring" looks lavish but never wasteful, miraculous given the way everything in Hollywood these days costs big money, and yet nothing looks like it. (Compared with "Fellowship," the gaudy and lifeless "Harry Potter and the Sorceror's Stone" looks like a play mounted at a school for rich kids, where no expense was spared in the attempt to cover up clumsy amateurishness.)  

from: http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/review/2001/12/18/lord_of_the_rings/index.html

Does anyone else find it painful to criticize the Harry Potter movie!<bg> Sorry if I offended anyone who loved the film, but I do think that it could have been done much better. Maybe I'm wrong but with HP I have the feeling that a lot of people working on it took it for granted that it would be a success and so didn't have to really *try* (the kids were wonderful as were Rickman, Smith, Shaw, Hurt and Coltrane) but a lot of other actors and the director, I think treated it more as a cutesy film rather than taking it seriously.

Whereas in Lord of the Rings, everything is taken seriously. Ian McKellen as Gandalf is superb, you can tell he has respect for his role and for the story (unlike another actor Who Shall Not Be Named). Elijah Wood and Viggo Mortenson were also highlights and there wasn't one actor that made me wince. Most importantly, it is evident that director Peter Jackson respected the book. The languages were spoken with reverence and fortunately they didn't sound weird. I think the actors really studied the books and had language training and so on; they put a great effort into understanding their roles, which makes a huge difference. I felt that they respected the book and yet weren't afraid to make the movie an interpretation rather than a slavish re-telling, and this is what made it a good movie. All those who are waiting to rent it on video or DVD, don't! It is one of those movies that you have to watch on the big screen.

Best,

Hella



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





From hfakhro at nyc.rr.com  Thu Dec 20 19:30:07 2001
From: hfakhro at nyc.rr.com (hella_42)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 19:30:07 -0000
Subject: LOTR-Ebert's review and my take
In-Reply-To: <9vt2db+fdfn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vte7v+dt6r@eGroups.com>

I saw FOTR last night and it was amazing, really I was stunned by the 
film. I did read Ebert's review, I see his complaint about the film 
was that it didn't follow too closely to the book whereas the HP film 
was a truer adaptation. (If I'm mistaken about what he's saying, 
please correct me.) If you're going to compare the two (which I 
probably shouldn't do as they're very different types, but oh well) I 
would say that Peter Jackson breathed life into that movie unlike 
Columbus with Harry.

I never perceived that the hobbits were pushed out of center stage by 
the people, elves, etc. And I never got the feeling that the 
elves "tower like Norse gods and goddesses, accompanied by so much 
dramatic sound and lighting that it's a wonder they can think to 
speak, with all the distractions." It's a very *grand* movie but it's 
also very intimate and never strays away from the essentials: the 
characters. The focus is always on Frodo, and I expect Merry and 
Pippin and Sam will have more focus in the later movies as their 
roles expand.

Maybe because I am not too attached to the Lord of the Rings books, I 
don't have any problem with the adaptation of a beloved book, so 
comparing it to Harry Potter where I love the books but thought they 
butchered the movie is probably not a good idea. Someone more 
objective would probably have a more balanced opinion. Here's an 
interesting quote, which I found myself agreeing with from the 
salon.com review:

"The Fellowship of the Ring" looks lavish but never wasteful, 
miraculous given the way everything in Hollywood these days costs big 
money, and yet nothing looks like it. (Compared with "Fellowship," 
the gaudy and lifeless "Harry Potter and the Sorceror's Stone" looks 
like a play mounted at a school for rich kids, where no expense was 
spared in the attempt to cover up clumsy amateurishness.) 

from: 
http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/review/2001/12/18/lord_of_the_rings/in
dex.html

Does anyone else find it painful to criticize the Harry Potter movie!
<bg> Sorry if I offended anyone who loved the film, but I do think 
that it could have been done much better. Maybe I'm wrong but with HP 
I have the feeling that a lot of people working on it took it for 
granted that it would be a success and so didn't have to really *try* 
(the kids were wonderful as were Rickman, Smith, Shaw, Hurt and 
Coltrane) but a lot of other actors and the director, I think treated 
it more as a cutesy film rather than taking it seriously.

Whereas in Lord of the Rings, everything is taken seriously. Ian 
McKellen as Gandalf is superb, you can tell he has respect for his 
role and for the story (unlike another actor Who Shall Not Be Named). 
Elijah Wood and Viggo Mortenson were also highlights and there wasn't 
one actor that made me wince. Most importantly, it is evident that 
director Peter Jackson respected the book. The languages were spoken 
with reverence and fortunately they didn't sound weird. I think the 
actors really studied the book and had language training and so on; 
they put a great effort into understanding their roles, which makes a 
huge difference. I felt that they respected the book and yet weren't 
afraid to make the movie an interpretation rather than a slavish re-
telling, and this is what made it a good movie. All those who are 
waiting to rent it on video or DVD, don't! It is one of those movies 
that you have to watch on the big screen.

Best,
Hella





From hfakhro at nyc.rr.com  Fri Dec 21 03:49:03 2001
From: hfakhro at nyc.rr.com (Hella Fakhro)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 22:49:03 -0500
Subject: JKR backlash
Message-ID: <003b01c189d2$76229580$cffe6c42@nyc.rr.com>

Interesting point, Al. I hesitate to compare JKR to Barbara Streisand or Jennifer Lopez <bg> just because I don't think she's *saturating* the media with herself as much as they do. I believe she only did one TV special (the BBC one) but I may be wrong. Even if she is living it up, I don't see anything wrong with it. If we think about it - once Harry Potter is over, what's she going to do? It's going to be extremely difficult to live up to Harry (hopefully!) Although I wish she would produce the books once a year I kind of am happy for her that she did receive this success and that she's enjoying it. And let her take her time, her (working) life will never be the same after Harry.

The merchandise is another question - the saving grace is I suppose that although she gets a lot of say into what is made and what isn't, she doesn't get the last word. I remember an article in the Wall Street Journal and they said that WB wanted to make Harry Potter sunglasses and scar-shaped cookie cutters. She asked that they make neither one, so they threw out the sunglasses but kept the cookie cutters. So while HP skateboards sound incredibly tacky, it doesn't mean she personally approved every piece out there. And I thank her from the bottom of my heart that McDonalds didn't get their hands on Harry Potter and that Coca-Cola ads are quite tastefully done. It could have been worse!

The other thing I want to ask myself is, why do we have these expectations from her? She *never* promised a book a year, and she's made it very clear that she doesn't know when book 5 will be done. Perhaps the impatience is due to our own expectations that we have put on her, none that she promised. Perhaps it is the fandom, the daily discussion of everything in the Potter books that is making us crazy with anticipation. I think she deserves to work on something frivolous, like a movie of her book; in fact I would prefer she does something like that than burn out while continuously writing, writing, writing about Harry if she's *not* enthusiastic about it, so that when she turns her attention back to him she will produce something outstanding rather than something forced. The GoF fiasco is not something she will want to repeat, I'm sure. I would prefer book 5 to be done with a lot of love, enthusiasm, and care rather than to meet a deadline, because it will affect the quality. Maybe she has writer's block, maybe the plot is extremely complex, and she really has to be careful what she reveals in this book so that she can continue to surprise us in books 6 and 7. I don't know, but from the amount of fame, money, and attention that she has received, I am surprised she's not a lot more obnoxious. She's extremely level-headed I think, and I'm not too worried about her resistance to it. The fact is we really don't know what she's doing, and I'd rather give her the benefit of the doubt. But that's just me!

Take care,

Hella, feeling very optimistic and long-winded today



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Fri Dec 21 11:27:47 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 06:27:47 -0500
Subject: Happy Solstice!
Message-ID: <F197IcQfjodSoOAc4ga00009618@hotmail.com>

In a few hours the earth's tilt will begin to favor us northern 
hemisphere-ites once again (or, if you prefer winter, begin to favor the 
southern hemisphere-ites).

Happy solstice, all, and all blessings of the light and dark to you.

Amy

----------------------------------
Help us to be the always hopeful
gardeners of the spirit
who know that without darkness
nothing comes to birth
as without light
nothing flowers.
                    --May Sarton
----------------------------------

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com




From ftah3 at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 21 13:21:24 2001
From: ftah3 at yahoo.com (ftah3)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 13:21:24 -0000
Subject: LOTR-Ebert's review and my take
In-Reply-To: <9vte7v+dt6r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vvd0k+ng93@eGroups.com>

hella_42 wrote:
> "The Fellowship of the Ring" looks lavish but never wasteful, 
> miraculous given the way everything in Hollywood these days costs 
big 
> money, and yet nothing looks like it. (Compared with "Fellowship," 
> the gaudy and lifeless "Harry Potter and the Sorceror's Stone" 
looks 
> like a play mounted at a school for rich kids, where no expense was 
> spared in the attempt to cover up clumsy amateurishness.) 

Well, then the trailers for LOTR used *only* the lavish shots, and 
not the un-wasteful ones, because everything I've seen so far 
advertising LOTR makes it look like tacky Baroque compared the HP's 
classy chic look.  ("Gaudy and lifeless"?  Was that a quote from the 
article you reference?  In case it isn't, I won't state exactly what 
I think of that comment.)

I personally am immensely unimpressed with the Blockbuster Special 
Effects Events which have come in vogue in the Hollywood film 
industry.  They become more and more tasteless with every 
installment, and imho LOTR looks like "The Mummy Returns" except with 
the benefit of a half-way decent story.  Honestly, I thinks it's 
laughable that LOTR is getting nominated for big awards; but then I 
also think institutions like the Golden Globes and the Oscars are 
laughable, and tasteless, and kowtow to shallow things like bankable 
fluff rather than good film-making, as well.  (By the way, it will do 
little good to tell me to withhold judgement until I see the film, 
because I heard plenty of abject effusion about LOTR before it was 
released based on the previews.  In which case, I feel perfectly 
justified in expressing my own disdain simply based on the previews, 
also.)

Mahoney
shutting up, shipping off, sayonara




From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com  Fri Dec 21 12:32:55 2001
From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 13:32:55 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] JKR Backlash ... was JKR on MSNBC "...of the Year" poll
References: <9vtksd+ukf0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <005c01c18a1b$9e2b1c20$e500a8c0@shasta>

Al moaned,

>  However, now that the hype has
> actually faded again to a more tolerable background level - Joanne
> seems to still be bouncing around the place giving more and more
> interviews and descending still further into tacky publicity.

I agree with your take on the merchandising - but I'm a little
surprised at that bit. Since I collect links to interviews on my
web-site (http://www.geocities.com/aberforths_goat/), I'm pretty aware
of Jo's interviews - or at least the ones that make it to the web.
Although I currently have seven or eight new links to upload, almost
all of them are old. As far as I can tell, it's been pretty lean
pickings since last March (when QTA and FB came out) - less than ten
links to *very* brief press statements.

(In comparison, I'd guess that I have about 40 links for the same
period in 2000 - including several huge exclusives! At the time, I had
exactly the same worry you've expressed - that she'd turn into a
professional, could'v'been-great author.)

When the movie arrived, I assumed that she would go on a spree and was
braced to chase links all over the web. Nothing, nada, niente, nichts.
The BBC special coming up is the first major interview I've seen in a
coon's age.

Anyway, I didn't want to be critical - mostly, I'm mostly curious!
Have I been missing something? If so, I'd like to find out about it!

Baaaaaa!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, who, btw, recently added Al's
Snitch! to what used to be an exclusively PoU list diet. It's a whole
new world for this straight, Christian theologian in a conservative
denomination - but it's a gripping, funny, moving story. Highly
recommended at http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Al/.)
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have
been
bravery...."




From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Fri Dec 21 14:00:51 2001
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 14:00:51 -0000
Subject: One Ring (for LOTR fans)
Message-ID: <9vvfaj+np87@eGroups.com>

Following a grand tradition of perpetrating timely but harmless hacks during 
exam week, MIT students present the gigantic One Ring, around the school's main 
dome:

http://hacks.mit.edu/Hacks/by_year/2001/the_one_ring/




From virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 21 15:29:58 2001
From: virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com (virtualworldofhp)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 15:29:58 -0000
Subject: Can the Yahoo ads get more intrusive?
In-Reply-To: <9vuf14+95v5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vvkhm+788r@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "cindysphynx" <cindysphynx at h...> wrote:
> Yup.  I just clicked on a post in webview, and I was taken to a full-
> page ad.  I had to click again to go to the message.
> 
> I wish I could remember the product so that I could boycott it.  
> 
> Cindy (who may finally be forced to do something drastic like go on 
> daily digest)

Something with cars.

And we thought the Wal-mart ads were bad.  I think they're spying on
us and looking for more torture.

GO AWAY ADS!

-Megan




From ftah3 at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 21 16:04:02 2001
From: ftah3 at yahoo.com (ftah3)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 16:04:02 -0000
Subject: Can the Yahoo ads get more intrusive?
In-Reply-To: <9vuf14+95v5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9vvmhi+8u79@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "cindysphynx" <cindysphynx at h...> wrote:
> Yup.  I just clicked on a post in webview, and I was taken to a 
full-
> page ad.  I had to click again to go to the message.
> 
> I wish I could remember the product so that I could boycott it.  
> 
> Cindy (who may finally be forced to do something drastic like go on 
> daily digest)

Ironically, I had to do that to get to this message.
  
Very annoying.  *twitchtwitch*  Very, very *twitch* annoying.

Mahoney




From ftah3 at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 21 16:19:08 2001
From: ftah3 at yahoo.com (ftah3)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 16:19:08 -0000
Subject: JKR backlash
In-Reply-To: <003b01c189d2$76229580$cffe6c42@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <9vvnds+glff@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Hella Fakhro" <hfakhro at n...> wrote:
> Interesting point, Al. I hesitate to compare JKR to Barbara 
Streisand or Jennifer Lopez <bg> just because I don't think she's 
*saturating* the media with herself as much as they do. I believe she 
only did one TV special (the BBC one) but I may be wrong.<


Also, generally the celebritie's publicist and those wanting 
interviews/potential publicity features get together, work things 
out, and then the celebrity is told "Go here, do this, I don't care 
that it eats up the next three months of your waking life."  As 
Aberforth's_Goat pointed out, she's done much much less publicity 
stuff lately than she did earlier ~ probably what happened is that 
being new to the business she didn't know how to say no before, and 
now she does.  (Kind of like, she had to go along with naming the 
first book differently for American publication because she didn't 
have the professional weight to say no.)

> The merchandise is another question - the saving grace is I suppose 
that although she gets a lot of say into what is made and what isn't, 
she doesn't get the last word.<

I doubt she has much at all to say.  Probably token input.  WB will 
do what it thinks is most marketable, because they can.  They legally 
have rights to do that.

> The other thing I want to ask myself is, why do we have these 
expectations from her? She *never* promised a book a year, and she's 
made it very clear that she doesn't know when book 5 will be done. 
Perhaps the impatience is due to our own expectations that we have 
put on her, none that she promised. Perhaps it is the fandom, the 
daily discussion of everything in the Potter books that is making us 
crazy with anticipation. I think she deserves to work on something 
frivolous, like a movie of her book; in fact I would prefer she does 
something like that than burn out while continuously writing, 
writing, writing about Harry if she's *not* enthusiastic about it, so 
that when she turns her attention back to him she will produce 
something outstanding rather than something forced.< 

Ditto!  (I know ditto's are persona non grata on these lists, but 
this is a really *fervent* ditto!)

In fact, I really hope that the delay indicates that she really is 
*not* letting public opinion sway her writing.  I.e., not listening 
to gripes and speculation and expectation, which could potentially 
cause her to doubt herself and to seriously be afraid about what 
would happen if book 5 flopped.  Her books are a really neat gift, a 
great by-product of her talent, but not something I feel entitled to 
nor entitled to demand of her on *my* timetable rather than hers. I 
don't mind waiting.  

And I've lost my train of thought because a co-worker popped in.  
LOL.  Anyhoo.

Mahoney




From john at walton.vu  Fri Dec 21 16:11:13 2001
From: john at walton.vu (John Walton)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 11:11:13 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Can the Yahoo ads get more intrusive?
In-Reply-To: <9vvkhm+788r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B848C951.2CF7%john@walton.vu>

> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "cindysphynx" <cindysphynx at h...> wrote: Yup.  I
> just clicked on a post in webview, and I was taken to a full- page ad.  I had
> to click again to go to the message.
> 
>> I wish I could remember the product so that I could boycott it.
>> 
>> Cindy (who may finally be forced to do something drastic like go on daily
>> digest)
>> 

If it's any comfort, there's nothing like that if you're on email and choose
"No HTML email". It might actually be worth getting a Hotmail (or similar)
address just to avoid the bloody intrusive ads.

--John
________________________________

John Walton -- john at walton.vu

Percy turned Oliver over onto his side in case he was ill, and pulled the
duvet up to cover his firm, slightly hairy chest.
*Damn, he's fit,* Percy thought. *If only he were gay...*

>From Keeper's Secrets, Chapter 1, by Wood's Keeper
http://www.astronomytower.org/cgi-bin/links/jump.cgi?ID=264
________________________________




From ftah3 at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 21 17:31:35 2001
From: ftah3 at yahoo.com (ftah3)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 17:31:35 -0000
Subject: Bloody out of line? (a slang question)
Message-ID: <9vvrln+nmvk@eGroups.com>

For the British hereabouts:  is 'bloody' a naughty curse word?  I 
read something the other day in which the individual commented on the 
scene in the movie in which Ron reacts to MacGonnagall's 
transformation with "Bloody brilliant," saying that if a child had 
said that to a teacher in a classroom anywhere in Britain/Scotland, 
the teacher wouldn't have quipped back, but would have probably given 
the kid detention.

Just wondering, so is 'bloody' really quite naughty?

Mahoney




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 21 18:31:42 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 10:31:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Solstice
Message-ID: <20011221183142.47048.qmail@web13707.mail.yahoo.com>

The same to one and all! I love this time of year!
Thank You, Amy! We got spoiled with all the fine
weather from a ew weeks ago, it is time for reality to
kick in! Happy Solstice!

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Very
Merry Band of Muggles 100% 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com



From sally_can_wait2k at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 21 19:55:46 2001
From: sally_can_wait2k at yahoo.com (sally_can_wait2k)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 19:55:46 -0000
Subject: 'Races' in Movie 
Message-ID: <a00442+rcmr@eGroups.com>

Hello,
  Well, what I remember most about going to the movie (apart from enjoying it) is worrying there would only be white ppl in it, as I'd brought along a black person. Finally, they showed the black boy and girl (maybe more) sitting at the table with the others in Harry's house..Gryffindor (?) . Thank God. And they did have the girl ( if I'm not mistaken) call the match.      
Any thoughts?
                  'Sally'




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Fri Dec 21 20:00:07 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 15:00:07 -0500
Subject: Happy birthday, Martin!
Message-ID: <F140QeSOzNCWbzwWJv3000034a7@hotmail.com>

Hey everyone, it's Martin Smith's birthday!

He's a man of many talents.  He knows Swedish, he knows English, he knows 
Quenya and Uruk.  He actually *lives* in Middle-Earth.  He can discuss 
willows, ABBA, and the sex lives of Hogwarts students with equal facility.  
He's Lee Jordan's biggest fan.  Please join me in wishing Martin a magical 
day!

Your owl will find Martin here or at mediaphen at hotmail.com.

The Birthday Elf

P.S. Contrary to rumor, I was *not* tipsy on Genevieve's birthday.  My 
absence is easy to explain and perfectly aboveboard.  I was going to visit 
my poor sick mother, and pulled over to change a tire for a poor sick old 
man, and was sideswiped by a poor sick woman and had to take my poor sick 
car to the mechanic and go get my poor sick arm set.

P.P.S.  Happy birthday, Genevieve!

P.P.P.S.  *Hic!*

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com




From dracos_boyfriend at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Dec 21 21:21:06 2001
From: dracos_boyfriend at yahoo.co.uk (dracos_boyfriend)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 21:21:06 -0000
Subject: Bloody out of line? (a slang question)
In-Reply-To: <9vvrln+nmvk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a00942+j53i@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "ftah3" <ftah3 at y...> wrote:
> For the British hereabouts:  is 'bloody' a naughty curse word?  I 
> read something the other day in which the individual commented on 
the 
> scene in the movie in which Ron reacts to MacGonnagall's 
> transformation with "Bloody brilliant," saying that if a child had 
> said that to a teacher in a classroom anywhere in Britain/Scotland, 
> the teacher wouldn't have quipped back, but would have probably 
given 
> the kid detention.
> 
> Just wondering, so is 'bloody' really quite naughty?
> 
> Mahoney

Wow, you'd been reading a while back *g*.  I must've posted that more 
than a month ago!

It's not especially naughty in the great scheme of things - it's more 
mild swearing than other, more explicit gems.  You'd generally expect 
kids to be using much worse words by that age to each other.  But to 
say bloody to a teacher - at that stage in one's education I think 
would be taken as very disrespectful and rather rude.  Although by 
Sixth Form, when we were more on the same level as the teaching 
staff, people in my history class (myself included) would quite 
happily say, 'I buggered up that essay,' or 'bloody hell, that lesson 
went quick.'  But not when we were eleven.

It might also depend on the kid - a sporty, captain of Quidditch type 
(a jock, to use the Americanism) would be allowed to get away with 
worse than someone like Ron, who is a new kid with a lot to live up 
to.  Ron would be too concerned with appearing to be on everyone's 
good side (much like Harry) on their first day at school to even dare 
using such language.  Plus he has been well brought up and comes from 
a stable background.  If he was off the wizarding equivalent of the 
local council estate, he might get a bit more leeway.  IMO it is just 
unrealistic.

Hope that clears things up
Al

Al




From michelleapostolides at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Dec 21 22:04:48 2001
From: michelleapostolides at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Ms=20Michelle=20Apostolides?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 22:04:48 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Please help me with a dream interpretation
Message-ID: <20011221220448.94292.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi

I had a really odd dream the other night which has
left me with an odd feeling. I am hoping that someone
here might know a little about dreams and their
meaning. It helps if you have read Susan Cooper's The
Dark Is Rising sequence. 

I dreamt that I was called to a meeting of people like
the Old Ones who told me that I had to go with them to
a remote part of Wales to do important work with them.
It would be a permanent move and that if I chose to go
with them, I would have to leave there and then, no
time to pack or say goodbye to my family. I had a
strong feeling that this decision put me in an
impossible position.  They were sitting on  benches
like in The House of Commons in the UK with me  I know
it was only a dream, but it has spooked me ever since
and I can't stop thinking about it. Mind you, I
haven't stopped thinking about The Dark Is Rising
since I finished it !

I hope you can help me !

Many thanks, 

Michelle 


__________________________________________________
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From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 21 23:49:33 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 15:49:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy birthday, Martin!
Message-ID: <20011221234933.73920.qmail@web13707.mail.yahoo.com>

Way to go Martin! Enjoy your magical day today! Thanks
to a certain Birthday Elf named Amy Z to announce to
us such a Happy Day! Love Tolkien's Books!  You
probably could speak elfish! Hope all you Birthday
wishes come true!

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Merry
Band of Muggles 100%

 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Dec 22 01:10:18 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 01:10:18 -0000
Subject: Volunteers needed please
Message-ID: <a00mhq+mu8u@eGroups.com>

I just returned from a night out with the staff and some members of 
the parents' committee (of which I am one) of my son's preschool.  We 
went to a local pub, had a really good meal for ?10 each and 
generally had a great evening.

However, there was one snag.  For the first time in my life, I have 
done something so awful, so dreadful, that I'm reluctant to admit to 
it...but here goes.

I joined in with the kareoke.

It is for this reason that I am looking for volunteers to help me 
slam my ears in the oven door.  All help is gratefully accepted.

Mary Ann
(who has no choice but to sober up within the next 6 hours as DH 
works early Saturday mornings and I have to get the kids up meself.  
Gads...)




From Schlobin at aol.com  Sat Dec 22 01:51:07 2001
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 01:51:07 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Solstice
In-Reply-To: <20011221183142.47048.qmail@web13707.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a00oub+i7a3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Wanda Mallett <witchwanda2002 at y...> 
wrote:
> The same to one and all! I love this time of year!
> Thank You, Amy! We got spoiled with all the fine
> weather from a ew weeks ago, it is time for reality to
> kick in! Happy Solstice!
> 
> Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Very
> Merry Band of Muggles 100% 
> 
Bright blessings to all this Solstice...




From Schlobin at aol.com  Sat Dec 22 01:54:39 2001
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 01:54:39 -0000
Subject: Ebert's review/my take on LOTR
In-Reply-To: <002e01c189d1$5f559920$cffe6c42@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <a00p4v+4hjt@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Hella Fakhro" <hfakhro at n...> wrote:
> > Whereas in Lord of the Rings, everything is taken seriously. Ian 
McKellen as Gandalf is superb, you can tell he has respect for his 
role and for the story (unlike another actor Who Shall Not Be Named). 

> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Yes, I agree. I was enthralled with Ian McKellen's diary of making 
the FOTR. He loves the books, the movies, brings energy, focus, 
respect and passion to his role...and it surely shows!

Susan




From Schlobin at aol.com  Sat Dec 22 01:57:23 2001
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 01:57:23 -0000
Subject: Ebert's review/my take on LOTR
In-Reply-To: <002e01c189d1$5f559920$cffe6c42@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <a00pa3+g2m4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Hella Fakhro" <hfakhro at n...> wrote:
> I posted this on webview earlier this afternoon and it doesn't seem 
to have gone through - if it comes twice, my apologies.
> I saw FOTR last night and it was amazing, really I was stunned by 
the film. I did read Ebert's review, I see his complaint about the 
film was that it didn't follow too closely to the book whereas the HP 
film was a truer adaptation. (If I'm mistaken about what he's saying, 
please correct me.) If you're going to compare the two (which I 
probably shouldn't do as they're very different types, but oh well) I 
would say that Peter Jackson breathed life into that movie unlike 
Columbus with Harry.
> 

The film followed closely enough, imho. HP might have been a closer 
adaption but I think Peter Jackson captured the spirit and the tale 
of LOTR better than Columbus did with Harry. 

Susan




From Schlobin at aol.com  Sat Dec 22 02:00:17 2001
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 02:00:17 -0000
Subject: LOTR-Ebert's review and my take
In-Reply-To: <9vvd0k+ng93@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a00pfh+9ikt@eGroups.com>

state exactly what 
(By the way, it will do 
> little good to tell me to withhold judgement until I see the film, 
> because I heard plenty of abject effusion about LOTR before it was 
> released based on the previews.  In which case, I feel perfectly 
> justified in expressing my own disdain simply based on the 
previews, 
> also.)
> 
> Mahoney
> shutting up, shipping off, sayonara

Well, I like tilting at windmills. Go see the movie and then express 
your opinion. Can't take you too seriously given you haven't seen
the film. It would be like giving credence to those who say HP 
worships the devil, and is demonic, but haven't read the HP books!

Susan




From Schlobin at aol.com  Sat Dec 22 02:05:44 2001
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 02:05:44 -0000
Subject: more LOTR
In-Reply-To: <002301c18988$20de9460$933470c2@c5s910j>
Message-ID: <a00ppo+9rul@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Neil Ward" <neilward at d...> wrote:
> Starling said:
> 
> > whereas i left HP feeling slightly dazed but still able to walk 
under my
> own
> > power, by boyfriend literally had to lift me from my seat, as my 
friend
> and
> > I were still sitting in amazement.
> >
> > Anyone who has not yet read LOTR, and/or is having a hard time 
getting
> into
> > it, I'd recommend considering the movie.
> 
> Oh, bum...  I really must see this tomorrow night at the very 
latest.  I
> simply can't wait.  I bought the official movie guide and a brand 
new boxed
> set of the three parts of LOTR (still in its wrapper) and I'm 
starting to
> think Elijah Wood is cuter than Sean Biggerstaff...
> 
> I keep telling myself that I *must, must, must* read the book 
before I see
> the film, but I'm such a slow reader (not literally, but I snatch 
moments
> here and there rather than settling down for solid hours), that it's
> unlikely that the film will still be in cinemas by the time I'm 
ready for
> it.   Hell's bells...
> 
> Twice in my life, I've got about a third of the way through LOTR 
(which
> probably amounts to Fellowship of The Ring, doesn't it?), but it's 
more than
> 20 years since I even looked at it, so I can't remember much 
detail.  I
> think I can cheat, though, and say that I've read the book.  I can, 
can't I?
> Please tell me I can go and still sleep at nights...
> 
> Neil

Neil, go to the movie...

I think that the FOTR may be the exception to my rule...
I find that if you read the book first, you can still enjoy the 
movie, but if you see the film first, the book is not as good...

I think you could see the film and have your appetite whetted for the 
books. I came back and reread the Two Towers, and probably will start 
a reread of Return of the King soon.

Tolkien is absolutely amazing. There is no need to make comparisons 
between HP and Tolkien..why fight about it..we can all happily enjoy 
all the books and all the films!

Susan




From Schlobin at aol.com  Sat Dec 22 02:11:15 2001
From: Schlobin at aol.com (susanmcgee48176)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 02:11:15 -0000
Subject: more LOTR
In-Reply-To: <008601c189f1$1ddc8740$7f28fea9@yoonabomber>
Message-ID: <a00q43+ev36@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Brian Yoon" <Seiryuu_Avatar at m...> wrote:
> Perhaps LotR made very good decisions in choosing what to cut out 
and such,
> but it seemed to me, a non-reader, very hurried.  I'm not exactly 
sure what
> I mean by that, but it seems a bit esoteric.  Were we supposed to 
know of
> "Striker" and his liason with that elf-girl?  I was left 
thinking... what
> the?


You know, I had no clue as to how confusing it might be.
Strider, as in someone who strides about...is in love with Arwen 
Evenstar, an elf who has chosen a short life with him rather than 
immortality without him..the choice of Luthien
> 
> Oh, and I noticed they made Gandalf a bit less competent in the 
movie.  In
> the book (I read very little of the book.., so forgive me if I get 
this
> wrong), he knew about Bilbo's ring, and the fact that it was evil. 
In the
> movie, he doesn't know anything about it, and he's surprised at 
what he
> uncovers.  And he doesn't do any flashy magic!>>



Actually, the film follows the book in spirit. Gandalf knew that 
Bilbo had a ring of power, and began to suspect that it might be the 
one ring when Bilbo lived and did not age. But in the book -- as in 
the movie -- he did not know that it was the one ring until he cast 
it into the fire in Bag End and saw the writing on it.

I don't know of any flashy magic that Gandalf did in the movie that 
he didn't do in the book?...?

Unless you're referring to the pitched battle with Saruman... 
> 




From taradiane at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 22 02:24:38 2001
From: taradiane at yahoo.com (Tara)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 18:24:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: When all 7 books are finished....
Message-ID: <20011222022438.5274.qmail@web11505.mail.yahoo.com>

I hate to break into all of the wonderful and
insightful LotR discussion, but....

my friend Julie and I were having a lengthy
discussion about what happens to us (ie: me, her,
the fans, etc.) when all 7 books are over and
done with.  

We were talking about what type of ending would
make it easier to say goodbye to the series
(since JK has usually stated that once book 7 is
out, it's over for her where Mr. Potter is
concerned).  Granted, HP will always live on with
the fans and in our hearts (sorry for the
gag-worthy cliche), but isn't it going to just be
too sad when it's over?  We've spent so much time
waiting for the next book(s), analyzing every
detail, trying to figure out intricate
psychological profiles for the characters, making
guesses about the past and future, etc...

So after book 7 is out and has been dissected
front to back and vice versa, how hard do you
think it'll be to say goodbye to new adventures
and revelations?  Is there a particular type of
ending that would make it easier for you?  

Part of me wants him to live on - a nice fade out
with a 17 year old Harry walking hand in hand
with Ginny towards the platform while Ron &
Hermione bicker in the background, and another
says "if I can't know what's going on for the
rest of his life, just kill him so I can mourn
him and get over it".  Personally, I'm going to
need some serious closure to this series.  This
isn't the first time I've fallen in love with a
book, but it is the first time I've fallen in
love with a series.  I have a feeling I'm going
to need to call off work for a few days after
I've finished book 7 ;-)

Has anyone else thought about this?  Am I just
being mental?

Tara, who's already worried about how hard it's
going to be not to flip to the back of book 7 and
read the last paragraph before even beginning the
book....oh the horror!

=====
@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@
"...people meeting in secret all over the world 
were holding up their glasses and saying in hushed 
voices:" To Harry Potter - the boy who lived!"

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From jdumas at kingwoodcable.com  Sat Dec 22 04:07:29 2001
From: jdumas at kingwoodcable.com (Katze)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 22:07:29 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] When all 7 books are finished....
References: <20011222022438.5274.qmail@web11505.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C240701.2D25683A@kingwoodcable.com>

Tara wrote:
> 
> I hate to break into all of the wonderful and
> insightful LotR discussion, but....
> 
> my friend Julie and I were having a lengthy
> discussion about what happens to us (ie: me, her,
> the fans, etc.) when all 7 books are over and
> done with.
> 
> We were talking about what type of ending would
> make it easier to say goodbye to the series
> (since JK has usually stated that once book 7 is
> out, it's over for her where Mr. Potter is
> concerned).  Granted, HP will always live on with
> the fans and in our hearts (sorry for the
> gag-worthy cliche), but isn't it going to just be
> too sad when it's over?  We've spent so much time
> waiting for the next book(s), analyzing every
> detail, trying to figure out intricate
> psychological profiles for the characters, making
> guesses about the past and future, etc...
> 
> So after book 7 is out and has been dissected
> front to back and vice versa, how hard do you
> think it'll be to say goodbye to new adventures
> and revelations?  Is there a particular type of
> ending that would make it easier for you?
> 
> Part of me wants him to live on - a nice fade out
> with a 17 year old Harry walking hand in hand
> with Ginny towards the platform while Ron &
> Hermione bicker in the background, and another
> says "if I can't know what's going on for the
> rest of his life, just kill him so I can mourn
> him and get over it".  Personally, I'm going to
> need some serious closure to this series.  This
> isn't the first time I've fallen in love with a
> book, but it is the first time I've fallen in
> love with a series.  I have a feeling I'm going
> to need to call off work for a few days after
> I've finished book 7 ;-)
> 
> Has anyone else thought about this?  Am I just
> being mental?
> 
> Tara, who's already worried about how hard it's
> going to be not to flip to the back of book 7 and
> read the last paragraph before even beginning the
> book....oh the horror!

I completely understand how you feel.

There is good news though...Rowling has stated that we *will* find out
what happens to the survivors at the end of the book 7. 

The ending that I need to feel good about the series, is for evil to be
destroyed, and Harry to survive. Perhaps I read too many interviews
where Rowling stated she might kill him. If he dies...I'll cry...simple
as that. I had an extremely hard time at the end of the book 4. I cried
because I felt for him so deeply. I wouldn't handle his death very well.
Might need counseling! ;-)

...but like big D says...to the organized mind, death is the next great
adventure. I hope he was referencing himself and not Harry.

There are only a few stories that I've ever read/watched that have
touched me this deeply. 
1) Neverending story (in my teens)
2) Watership Down (in my teens)
3) Babylon 5 (last year)
4) HP (this year)

I would love to see a symmetrical ending actually:
In the first book, first chapter we saw Harry as a baby. The next
chapter, we jumped forward 10 years. It would be wonderful for us to
finish out Harry's current year in the next to last chapter, and then we
get to jump 10 more years for the last chapter. That would be a
wonderful end. We could truly see where the characters are.

I'm sure that Rowling will make a nice complete ending to establish some
closure for the story. If a book ends well...it truly ends, and it's
easier to move on. 

There are my thoughts...
-Katze



From crabtree at ktc.com  Sat Dec 22 07:00:05 2001
From: crabtree at ktc.com (professorphlash)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 07:00:05 -0000
Subject: British Literature Characters-Thanks
Message-ID: <a01b1l+qm6r@eGroups.com>

Just wanted to say thanks to all of you who threw out some really 
interesting (and even some obscene *g*) suggestions for my daughter's 
costume. Their get together turned out to be quite a success. She 
flip-flopped between several characters and finally settled on 
Guinevere. We are in a small town and the party was for the AP Senior 
English class so it was a fairly small group.  She and her friend (my 
principal's daughter) were the only girls.  The other girl wanted to 
go as Oliver, but her mother put her foot down and said, "NO!" They 
eventually both went as Guinevere.  So much creativity!!! ;-)

Professor Phlash - who's expecting a very Harry Christmas.
(A house elf told me so.)




From viola_1895 at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 22 07:01:14 2001
From: viola_1895 at yahoo.com (viola_1895)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 07:01:14 -0000
Subject: JKR Backlash ... was JKR on MSNBC "...of the Year" poll
In-Reply-To: <9vtksd+ukf0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a01b3q+8qjs@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "dracos_boyfriend" 
<dracos_boyfriend at y...> wrote:
> Do you agree that there's 
> potential for a backlash, or not?  

Delurking to say... backlash? George Lucas, anyone? ^_-

Anytime the Hollywood hype machine gets rolling there's going to be 
the potential for backlash (especially when the finished product 
doesn't live up to the impossible expectations created by guys named 
Scout and Tripp sitting in a feng shui-ed office on 3rd and Ocean ^_-
). 

Hopefully this doesn't mean that in twenty years we'll be seeing The 
Potter Menace or Attack of the Death Eaters. ^_-

-Julie (busily wrapping Peter Jackson in anti-backlash spells)






From dai_evans at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 22 09:30:30 2001
From: dai_evans at yahoo.com (dai_evans)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 09:30:30 -0000
Subject: LOTR movie
Message-ID: <a01jrm+ksni@eGroups.com>

Oooof!

I saw this last night, and ooooof! It was wonderful. It was true to 
the book, well acted, seamless special effects, well directed.

I've heard assorted complaints about this film, and I can agree with 
none. I've read the LOTR trilogy several times, first when I was 
about 8 or 9, and most recently this year. The books never lost 
anything on repeated readings, and yet don't make me want to spot 
details in the way HP always does.

The film did justice to the book. There's no higher praise than that. 
In places I wondered about the coherency of the story being told, as 
if the story was rushing on, with details ommitted and events 
inadequately explained, but then I remembered that in LOTR details 
aren't important. In LOTR the story takes you to a higher plane 
(cliche, I know) where details and every intimate facts do not 
matter. What matters is each characters struggle.

I remember the great detail Tolkien went into about the history of 
Moria, and how it was rushed over in the film, but none of it 
matters, 'cause it's all just so much scenery to the tale being told.

As it is such a similar event (eagerly awaited major film adaptions 
of very popular fantasy storys, within weeks of each other), it was 
impossible not to compare this with HP. And I have to ask; where the 
hell was Peter Jackson when they were looking for directors for HP?

For FOTR was a much much better film adaption of a book than HPandPS.

In FOTR I didn't even notice the soundtrack (that is the mark of a 
good soundtrack, like a house elf). I didn't cringe when particular 
lines were said due to bad acting; because there was no bad acting.

I dunno what else to say, so I'm gonna stop now.


Dai




From miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au  Sat Dec 22 13:23:49 2001
From: miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au (storm)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 00:23:49 +1100
Subject: Amy's blessing/HP & LOTR Movies/don't feed the birds
Message-ID: <002801c18aeb$ebf78760$c0da8ec6@storm>

Amy wished all:

In a few hours the earth's tilt will begin to favor us northern
hemisphere-ites once again (or, if you prefer winter, begin to favor the
southern hemisphere-ites).

Happy solstice, all, and all blessings of the light and dark to you.

Happy belated solstice ... In the southern hemisphere, or at least in Sydney Au
where I am, the solstice seems meaninless ... It doesn't get really hot until
now and will stay warm for another 2 or 3 months. Because of the wonderful Day
Light Saving one doesn't notice it getting darker earlier. I find the equinox a
much more meaningful turning point. Is it like this in the northern hemesphere?

Movie - didn't like it. don't go to many movies so tend to find them
overwhelming. Was underwhelmed. very sad. May go to LOTR, couldn't finish the
book but will take Susan's advice this is one occation when can do the movie and
then read the book.

well this IS ot <g> ... I'm sure you don't need to be told but please don't feed
the birds. I can't sleep tonight because I am so cranky. I took the dogs to a
different park today and it was full of bread that ppl who Don't Know Better had
left for the birds. Don't feed the birds, or any wild animal. They will eat it
but bread is not a natural food for any animal, even grainovores. Suplementary
feeding of birds and other animals leads to ill animals, sometimes dead
animals... which is not what you are trying to acheive. Bread can swell in
bird's throats and choke them, birds and animals get malnourised because they
don't eat other more nutrious food, they become infertile or produce unviable
eggs/chicks/young. If you must supplimentary feed please find out what the
natural food of the bird/animal is (insects?, nector?, seeds?, rotents?) and
find out how you can encouge that food source into your garden/parks.

/rant off/

storm

there is nothing to fear in this moment and this is the only real moment there
is
 - Jeanne DuPrau




From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Sat Dec 22 13:37:04 2001
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 13:37:04 -0000
Subject: Merry Christmas
Message-ID: <a022a0+9vnr@eGroups.com>

Greetings, fellow listmembers

I will be lraving for home later tonight, and due to a computer-
problem at home, I will most likely be without Internet until early 
January.  I therefore take this opportunity to wish all of you a 
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Best regards
Christian Stub?




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 22 17:52:48 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 17:52:48 -0000
Subject: LOTR movie
In-Reply-To: <a01jrm+ksni@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a02h9g+ajrg@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "dai_evans" <dai_evans at y...> wrote:
> Oooof!
> 
> I saw this last night, and ooooof! It was wonderful. It was true 
> to the book, well acted, seamless special effects, well directed.
> 
> I've heard assorted complaints about this film, and I can agree 
> with none. I've read the LOTR trilogy several times, first when I 
> was about 8 or 9, and most recently this year. The books never 
> lost anything on repeated readings, and yet don't make me want to 
> spot details in the way HP always does.

My husband and I saw it yesterday, and it was indeed wonderful!  I 
not only DID notice the music, I thought it was perfect (and I saw 
in today's morning paper that the film is already nominated for 4 
Golden Globe awards, including one for the soundtrack and one for 
best film).  I especially like the more subtle musical moments, like 
the haunting boy soprano singing when we see Gandalf on top of that 
tower...I haven't read the books for about 15 years now, but this is 
making me feel like picking them up again (although I recently read 
the Hobbit to my daughter, and she liked it very much).

> For FOTR was a much much better film adaption of a book than 
> HPandPS.

I have to agree.  The only thing that didn't work very well were the 
shots with real little people standing in for the hobbits; 
especially in the scene where they're all sitting on those high-
backed chairs in a circle, discussing what to do, Frodo clearly did 
not look like Elijah Wood, even though the shot was from behind.  He 
seemed too small.  For the most part, what with having the hobbits 
peer over things that were clearing chin-height to them and whatnot, 
they managed the size thing well.  I think they could have just left 
Frodo out of some shots (like the meeting mentioned above) to avoid 
the size problem.

The film was also a bit more violent than I thought it would be, but 
not inappropriately so.  Orcs are vile creatures; even without the 
bloodshed, it should probably have had a PG-13 rating just for the 
existence of these things.  This makes me wonder whether by the time 
we get to the movie(s) for Goblet of Fire, the rating will have to 
be raised to PG-13.  Wormtail severing his own hand is not going to 
be pretty.  I wonder whether parents of younger children will still 
take them to the film.  (Of course, by that time, Harry's character 
is over 13, so perhaps it's appropriate.)

What I thought was interesting was that although I found many 
humorous things in the Hobbit, I didn't find LOTR (the books) to be 
particularly humorous.  Yet there were many funny bits in the film 
(esp. with Merry and Pippin and Gandalf banging around inside 
Bilbo's home) and my husband and I were both howling and slapping 
our knees at the "nobody tosses a dwarf" line.  An anachronism, but 
a funny one.  OTO, screenwriter Steve Kloves managed to leech most 
of the humor out of the Harry Potter film, even though it was based 
on a very funny book.  Go figure.

> I didn't cringe when particular lines were said due to bad acting; 
> because there was no bad acting.

Yes yes yes.  I wish I could say that about Columbus' directing, but-
-oh well.

It's definitely an epic and going high on my "best of" list.

--Barb





From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Dec 22 22:09:01 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 22:09:01 -0000
Subject: Happy Holidays / Ads
Message-ID: <a0309t+iivt@eGroups.com>

Belated Happy Birthday to Genevieve, Martin, and the Northern 
Hemisphere Sun. Bad catlady was asleep and missed them despite Amy and 
Neil and everyone's wonderful announcements.

Tabouli, I live in coastal Los Angeles where the cold of winter never 
gets down to freezing. Some days this winter so far it has gotten 
cold enough that I took a jacket along with me to work, but none yet 
cold enough that I wore it. But I REALLY notice the darkness since 
Daylight Saving Time ended. It's dark by the time I catch my bus 
home from work. My friend said she loves the long nights and was 
surprised that I don't; I'm ashamed to be so normal but I find all 
this darkness depressing. I understand the necessity of making a Big 
Deal of winter holidays (Xmas shopping season) to fight against (or 
distract away from ) despair. We don't immediately notice the sunsets 
getting later after Solstice; we see the sun setting just as early 
and remind ourselves of the promise that Solstice HAS happened and 
these days ARE lengthening and daylight to see the way home WILL come.

My friend gave me a Harry Potter box of Danish butter cookies for 
Xmas. I had no idea there was any such thing. There is a NICE picture 
of Hogwarts on the lid and I eventually figured out that the 
squiggles pressed into the light color cookies are Nimbus 2000, 
Sorting Hat, and Flying Keys (Tim asked me if these are the cookies 
sold at Honeydukes and I said no, Honeydukes doesn't know about the 
Flying Keys. If it had been the Golden Snitch.....) One of the cocoa 
color cookies had a round dot pressed into it, which I assume is a 
Bludger, and the other is actually molded into a shape that I 
suppose is a monster centipede. Except I don't remember any monster 
centipede in Book 1 or Movie 1?

I'm still on webview and being interrupted by full-page ads that I 
have to click "continue" to get on to the next post. Most of them 
seem to be ads for Yahoo itself. I don't believe that they are 
deliberately trying to annoy us (altho' they so often succeed so well 
in so many ways!). I think that since the recession has caused a huge 
decline in advertising spending that has been reported all over the 
news, Yahoo has to sell a lot more advertising to get the same amount 
of income to keep their business running.

 




From coriolan at worldnet.att.net  Sun Dec 23 01:23:17 2001
From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (coriolan_cmc2001)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 01:23:17 -0000
Subject: LOTR movie
In-Reply-To: <a02h9g+ajrg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a03bm5+ghpv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "blpurdom" <blpurdom at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "dai_evans" <dai_evans at y...> wrote:
> > Oooof!
> > 
>  
> My husband and I saw it yesterday, and it was indeed wonderful

I saw LOTR last night, and I concur. This is Middle-Earth history 
written with lightening, and is easily the best film out this year. 
It's one of the rare examples of a fantasy film in which the actors 
are not overwhelmed by the special effects and makeup. Just to give 
one example, we can read every emotion in Ian McKellan's face despite 
the long beard, pretend nose and tall crooked hat. 

(BTW, I'm a middling reader of Tolkien - I like LOTR, but I'm not 
passionately devoted to it, which is why I saw this film while I will 
avoid the HP movie like the Nazgul avoiding water. I just re-read 
Tolkien for the first time in 20 years, and my overall opinion is 
little changed).

Wonderful locations (makes me want to take an NZ vacation), great 
music (Howard Shore, best known for his collaboration with David 
Cronenberg). The Balrog was the scariest thing on film since Jef 
Goldblum in The Fly. I'll look forward to the next two installments. 

BTW, those with an interest in filk might want to check out some of 
the example of Tolkien filk out there:

http://www.dnaco.net/~mobrien/filk/tolklink.html

  - CMC

One Ring to rule them, and one Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them, and in the dark bind them;
That, and the other nineteen of the things,
All are a few of my favorite Rings.

So when Sauron
Takes the Tow'r on,
And the Nazgul shriek,
I just toss a ring in the Fire of Doom,
And then things don't seem so bleak.

   - Kevin Wald, Lord of the Rings




From nlpnt at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 23 05:27:45 2001
From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 05:27:45 -0000
Subject: Happy Solstice!
In-Reply-To: <F197IcQfjodSoOAc4ga00009618@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <a03q0h+sep8@eGroups.com>

Thank you, Amy. And may LOTR come, at last, to Rutland (front page of 
the Herald; not bad for a movie-related story!)




--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> In a few hours the earth's tilt will begin to favor us northern 
> hemisphere-ites once again (or, if you prefer winter, begin to 
favor the 
> southern hemisphere-ites).
> 
> Happy solstice, all, and all blessings of the light and dark to you.
> 
> Amy
> 
> ----------------------------------
> Help us to be the always hopeful
> gardeners of the spirit
> who know that without darkness
> nothing comes to birth
> as without light
> nothing flowers.
>                     --May Sarton
> ----------------------------------
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
> http://www.hotmail.com




From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk  Sun Dec 23 05:48:21 2001
From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (keithfras)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 05:48:21 -0000
Subject: John Walton down under?! (and LOTR)
Message-ID: <a03r75+8kfc@eGroups.com>

A short time ago one John Walton was paged over the loudspeakers in 
Auckland Airport (where I currently am, obviously). Anyone we know? :)

I've been in New Zealand for the last couple of weeks in honour of 
the LOTR movies - me and three Australian Tolkien fans toured some of 
the country and went to the street party in Wellington for the NZ 
premiere. We saw the film the next day (and I saw it again the other 
night) and while I was jarred a bit by the fast pacing, some slightly 
weird-looking stuff (mainly camp Elves in lipstick or apparently 
sedated!) and some of the changes to the story, I thoroughly enjoyed 
it - I think the final sequence (the Breaking of the Fellowship) 
really made the film with its emotion.

Keith




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Dec 23 07:23:53 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 07:23:53 -0000
Subject: John Walton down under?! (and LOTR)
In-Reply-To: <a03r75+8kfc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a040q9+aahb@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "keithfras" <keith.fraser at s...> wrote:

> A short time ago one John Walton was paged over the loudspeakers in 
> Auckland Airport(snip). Anyone we know? :)

That's not the kind of Down Under that sprang to my mind when I saw 
your post's subject line...

I hope you're having a fabulous time, Keith.




From john at walton.vu  Sun Dec 23 07:39:48 2001
From: john at walton.vu (John Walton)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 02:39:48 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: John Walton down under?! (and LOTR)
In-Reply-To: <a040q9+aahb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B84AF474.2EC8%john@walton.vu>

"keithfras" <keith.fraser at s...> wrote:

>> A short time ago one John Walton was paged over the loudspeakers in
>> Auckland Airport(snip). Anyone we know? :)

catlady_de_los_angeles said:

> That's not the kind of Down Under that sprang to my mind when I saw
> your post's subject line...


I object! Hmph.

I just went to see LoTR for the first time. AMAZING. Absolutely bloody
amazing. It was so unbelievably better than *our* movie. If only we could
have had the production people, and the casting people, and the sets people,
and the editing people...

Meh. LoTR reminded me just how lacking the HP movie was in so many respects.

On the good side, however, it did clear my SoT block, so I should be writing
some of that soonish :D

--John

________________________________

John Walton -- john at walton.vu

Percy smiled back, reminding himself not to let his face show exactly how
gorgeous he found Oliver.  *Aloof, unavailable, Head Boy. Aloof, unavailable
Head Boy. With girlfriend.*

>From Keeper's Secrets, Chapter 2, by Wood's Keeper
http://www.astronomytower.org/cgi-bin/links/jump.cgi?ID=301
________________________________





From dracos_boyfriend at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Dec 23 09:12:02 2001
From: dracos_boyfriend at yahoo.co.uk (dracos_boyfriend)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 09:12:02 -0000
Subject: Reaction to films based on levels of fannish-ness - LOTR
In-Reply-To: <a03r75+8kfc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a04752+q1pa@eGroups.com>

Keith said (about LOTR) ...

"We saw the film the next day (and I saw it again the other 
night) and while I was jarred a bit by the fast pacing, some slightly 
weird-looking stuff (mainly camp Elves in lipstick or apparently 
sedated!) and some of the changes to the story, I thoroughly enjoyed 
it - I think the final sequence (the Breaking of the Fellowship) 
really made the film with its emotion."

Now, this is interesting to me, as it is the first review of the film 
I've read that was even slightly negative.  For the record, I saw it 
yesterday night at Feltham Cineworld (who now have an animated Tomb 
Raider-esque sequence at the start of their shows to remind people to 
switch off their mobile phones) and I thought it was absolutely 
amazing.  It knocked Potter off the scale, and it frankly amazed me 
(this is what I've been saying everywhere else, so sorry if you've 
read this already) that Jackson can adapt a huge, 700-odd page book 
into 3 hours and make it so damn stunniny, and how Columbus can adapt 
a short, 250-odd page book into around the same time, and make it so 
damn *average* - by dint of being more *detailed*, HP should be the 
better film.  Yet LOTR has better effects - there are no badly done 
centaurs, but wasn't Sauron's castle beautifully rendered?  And did 
everyone spot the little channel thing bringing lava down from Mount 
Doom?  LOTR had better casting - Ian McKellan vs Richard Harris - no 
contest whatsoever, both fine actors, but only one of them can play a 
decent wizard - incidentally, wasn't Ian Holm (Bilbo) in the BBC 
adaptation of the Borrowers?  It had better acting , there were none 
of those rubbish 'you mean to say that that thing was Voldemort' 
cliche line stuff - though Frodo's 'Nooooo!' could easily have been 
cut.  And it and a better soundtrack that was not a re-hash of every 
other Williams suite.

However, these thoughts, and reading what Keith said above, got me 
thinking about our reaction to movies.  I think it's a fair bet to 
say that we're all pretty much obsessed beyond all reasonable help 
with Potter, and that in comparison, we merely *like* LOTR, and some 
of us, like me, have still not read the books.  Did this colour our 
reaction to the movie?  I went to PS fully expecting to *not* be 
bowled over.  My inner shippers were clamouring for attention, my 
inner LOON got free and was running round the cinema, and whilst PS 
was a good film, my canon knowledge meant that, at the end of the 
day, I didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I did.

Now, we come to LOTR - Keith, I'm right in thinking you're quite a 
big Tolkien fan, if I remember all those Sunday chats?  Therefore, I 
kind of suspect that you went into LOTR expecting the same kind of 
thing I expected when I went to see PS.  To me, PS had the potential 
to completely ruin my carefully constructed mental canon - I suspect 
LOTR might've seemed the same to you, hence your Not-As-Positive!
Thoughts above.  Now, I've never read any Tolkein, I've tried to, but 
I've never gotten into it.  I went into the cinema yesterday with a 
completely clean slate in my mind, ready for this.  I had no 
preconceptions, no knowledge of what was going to happen (it was an 
absolute killer shock for me when Gandalf died, I had assumed he'd 
make it through the trilogy, or die heroically in Part 3) - 
therefore, I think I possibly enjoyed it *more* because of this.

Basically, my point is, when it comes to movies adapted from books, 
will people who have read the books find that their opinions and 
enjoyment levels of the movies are changed in any way?  I think it 
may well be the case.  Would be interested to know what you all think.

Al
 





From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sun Dec 23 09:33:48 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 09:33:48 -0000
Subject: LOTR review
Message-ID: <a048ds+j1df@eGroups.com>

I need to see the movie again, reread FoTR, and re-watch the Bakshi 
version (which, IMHO, is unfairly trashed--other than an intolerable 
Sam and a lack of funds that led to the second half being ridiculously 
compressed and confusing, I think it's excellent), but here my 
thoughts three days after seeing the film.

I liked it, I liked it a lot, but I was disappointed.  The main 
problem was a severe curtailment of character development.  All that 
time showing us lush scenery and amazing sets, as much as I loved 
them, could have been spent giving us a lot more of JRRT's dialogue.  
If I hadn't read the book, I would have left the movie theater knowing 
Gandalf and Boromir and no one else.  A possible exception is Sam, who 
is thus far *better* than he is in the book (where "he keeps on saying 
'sir' to Frodo until one begins to have mad visions of founding a 
Hobbit Socialist Party," to quote my second-favorite JRRT fan, Ursula 
LeGuin); even this is thanks to some really good acting, and no thanks 
to omissions like Sam's look into Galadriel's mirror.

My dh, who's the serious Tolkien nut in this family, thinks the 
problem is that the Council of Elrond is cut short and the Last 
Debate, where they talk together about what to do past the Falls of 
Rauros, is nonexistent.  Both of those things would have provided some 
character development, it's true, but what they really would have 
provided that is also missing is insight into the moral dilemma.  
Boromir isn't just envious and overly proud; he makes a really 
important point, one with a lot of merit (and one that any of us might 
make concerning, oh, say, nuclear weapons):  isn't it folly to destroy 
the most powerful weapon we have, especially since the only way to 
destroy it is to carry it right under Sauron's nose, which is most 
likely as effective as FedExing it to his door?  In the book, this 
argument gets some serious time; in the movie we hear it only from 
Boromir, and that briefly.  That piths the movie of what I consider 
*the* major question in the book.  If the quest is just a matter of 
courageously taking the Ring to Mt. Doom, then this is just an 
adventure novel; but it's not.  It's an ongoing moral struggle with a 
very serious question at its heart:  can you use the enemy's weapon 
against him?  Like JKR, who won't let Harry kill Sirius or allow 
revenge against Peter, JRRT says no.  The enemy's weapon serves only 
him, no matter how noble the intentions of those who would turn it to 
other purposes.  I hope that future scenes with Denethor and Saruman 
will help remedy the omission.

Another thing missing from the decision is all the tension about 
leaving the Shire.  Aside from telling us about Sam, the scene where 
he looks into the Mirror of Galadriel is important because it shows 
that they might be sacrificing the Shire by going to Mt. Doom.  What 
they left in shows what will happen to the Shire if they *don't* 
complete the quest; that makes Frodo's decision to go on easier.  But 
in the book, Sam's choice to go on is made *harder* by what he sees 
there, and the moral question is compounded--should he be staying home 
to take care of things there, or should he gamble everything he loves, 
everything they're trying to save, on this crazy long shot to destroy 
the Ring?  We know the right answer, but in the book Sam doesn't; he's 
tormented.

Their mistrust of Strider is likewise excised.  Frodo looks amazed 
when he learns at Rivendell that he's Aragorn; okay, so far so good, 
but in the book it isn't just that Strider's so grubby-looking and is 
actually the heir to the throne of Gondor; it's that they haven't 
known whether to even trust him.

Something that could have been drastically cut to provide time for 
all this stuff was the fight with the cave troll in Moria.  What the 
heck was that all about?  Come on, have a little skirmish in the tomb, 
let us see Frodo get stabbed so everyone learns about the mithril 
mail, and get to the main action with the Balrog.  In general the 
fight scenes went on too long, but this one was breaking records.

I loved lots of the details:  Elrond's hair tied into Celtic knots, 
the winding stairs in Lorien, the white hand on the Uruk-hai (I always 
pictured it as a little tattoo-like thing, and I don't think JRRT 
specified; having it a mark literally branded by a hand is terrific), 
the way the orcs look and move, the hand of the Nazgul.  I loved the 
way things look when Frodo's invisible:  it really captures the sense 
that the Ring doesn't just make him invisible, but makes him more 
visible to evil (and evil more visible to him).  All the acting was 
fine--well, I'd be happier if Liv Tyler would just face facts and stop 
calling herself an actress, but she didn't have much to do.  Sean 
Bean, who gets the best role in the book, was terrific, and I hope he 
played Faramir too so that we haven't seen the last of him (doubt it, 
though; there's no mention of it at IMDB).  I love that they cast Cate 
Blanchett, who does not have movie-star beauty, for Galadriel; it 
conveys the fact that her magnetism is based on something much more 
powerful than sex appeal.  I love the way they intercut between what 
is happening to Gandalf and what's happening to the hobbits (though 
they cut the travel time between Hobbiton and Rivendell so drastically 
that Gandalf appears to have been imprisoned at Isengard for only a 
week or two--and the orcs deforested Isengard and did all that forging 
in that brief span of time as well).  I love everything about Bilbo 
(except for the moment when he looks like a demon--I think Holm 
could've carried the terror of that moment off without special 
effects/makeup).  I love the way the hobbit children look, and the 
furry feet.  I was even okay with the fact that Elijah Wood looks 17 
instead of Frodo's 51 (or, since he's had the Ring since age 33, 33), 
though I still find it bizarre that they made this choice.  I suspect 
they were going for teen girl appeal.  

Amy




From saitaina at wizzards.net  Sun Dec 23 10:05:07 2001
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 02:05:07 -0800
Subject: Strange question of the month (bedrooms in a flat)
References: <B84AF474.2EC8%john@walton.vu>
Message-ID: <030f01c18b99$4d359960$384e28d1@oemcomputer>

Okay, as an utterly un-cultured American I must pass this question of to someone with more experiance with British Housing-  How many bedrooms can be fit into a flat before it's a house?  It is like our American apartments that go up to 4 bedrooms?  Or is it like a studio where it's all one giant space save the bathroom?

A little help please and you shall be rewarded

Saitaina
*****
"He shouldn't have done that...that was a bad idea.  I keep a little list of all the people who pat my behind without permission and several of them have died un-natural and un-timely deaths."-Julia, "Designing Women"

"This is what it's all been about. All the hatred and suffering and fighting and dying...over nothing 
more then the colors that can be  found in a child's crayola box."

"Kids Mess you up...you spend the rest of your life yelling at something you don't  understand."




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sun Dec 23 10:06:06 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 10:06:06 -0000
Subject: Reaction to films based on levels of fannish-ness - LOTR
In-Reply-To: <a04752+q1pa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a04aae+uuq6@eGroups.com>

Al wrote:
 
> Now, we come to LOTR - Keith, I'm right in thinking you're quite a 
> big Tolkien fan, if I remember all those Sunday chats?  Therefore, I 
> kind of suspect that you went into LOTR expecting the same kind of 
> thing I expected when I went to see PS.  To me, PS had the potential 
> to completely ruin my carefully constructed mental canon - I suspect 
> LOTR might've seemed the same to you, hence your Not-As-Positive!
> Thoughts above.  <snip>
 
> Basically, my point is, when it comes to movies adapted from books, 
> will people who have read the books find that their opinions and 
> enjoyment levels of the movies are changed in any way?  I think it 
> may well be the case.  Would be interested to know what you all 
> think.

Hmm...well, anecdotes are no answer, but FWIW I loved the HP movie.  I 
think the main way it fell short of greatness was written into it from 
the book:  it's basically a foundational novel, top-notch in creating 
the wizarding world, not as interesting as 2-3-4 in terms of character 
and theme.  JMHO.  I didn't realize this until I tried to explain it 
to my dh last night (he has read PS but isn't an HP fan, and rated the 
movie, like the book, a fine kids' thing but nothing thrilling.  Yes, 
we are seeing a marital counselor about this problem <g>).  PS is my 
least favorite of the books, but only marginally; translated to film, 
though, the gap widens.  I think Columbus & Co. did a superb job of 
conveying the wonders of the wizarding world.  Well, fine.  That's 
basically what happens in PS.  The rest of the plot is cool, the 
book has great stuff about Lily and love and all that, but the 
character development, particularly Harry's, is largely laying the 
foundations for the much deeper stuff in the next three books.

To return to your point so that I don't have to slap myself on the 
wrist for posting this to OT-chatter instead of Movie:  knowledge of 
canon cuts both ways.  I think I got a lot more out of LOTR than 
someone who hasn't read the book, because I could fill in in my head 
all the character stuff which, as I just wrote at length, has been 
left out of the screenplay.  Its absence irritated me and knocked a 
couple of stars off my review, but those who haven't read the book 
aren't irritated--they're deprived of the experience completely.  So 
far, I wouldn't say that about the HP movies; I think that someone who 
only saw PS got the gist of what the book would have told them (with a 
few key omissions).

Amy




From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Sun Dec 23 12:26:38 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 12:26:38 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Strange question of the month (bedrooms in a flat)
References: <B84AF474.2EC8%john@walton.vu> <030f01c18b99$4d359960$384e28d1@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <008901c18bad$123ee780$723570c2@c5s910j>

Saitaina asked:

<< Okay, as an utterly un-cultured American I must pass this question of to
someone with more experiance with British Housing-  How many bedrooms can be
fit into a flat before it's a house?  It is like our American apartments
that go up to 4 bedrooms?  Or is it like a studio where it's all one giant
space save the bathroom? >>

I don't think it has to do with the number of bedrooms, although flats tend
to be smaller properties with 0-3 bedrooms (0 being a studio).  A flat is
part of a larger building; either a block or tower of similar residences, or
an old house that's been converted into several units.  To use technical
jargon, it's "a self-contained dwelling where a material part of that
dwelling lies above or below the remainder of the building in which it is
situated".  Another factor is that there is often a communal front entrance
(or entrances) to the building, with the doors to the individual flats
inside.  If a flat has its own front door, it's usually called a maisonette.

Houses, on the other hand, have their own front and back door and can be
detached, semi-detached (in pairs) or terraced (in rows), but they are
independent in the vertical direction.

I hope that helps.

Neil (who lives in a crumbling Victorian flat conversion)





From saitaina at wizzards.net  Sun Dec 23 12:38:19 2001
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 04:38:19 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Strange question of the month (bedrooms in a flat)
References: <B84AF474.2EC8%john@walton.vu> <030f01c18b99$4d359960$384e28d1@oemcomputer> <008901c18bad$123ee780$723570c2@c5s910j>
Message-ID: <032a01c18bae$b5166a40$384e28d1@oemcomputer>

Actually...it does help! :o)  As you described it I pictured what I had seen before regarding flats and got the picture.  Okay then, my question is awnsered and I think I know where I'm going with my story now...thank god I can go back to bed!


Saitaina
*****
"He shouldn't have done that...that was a bad idea.  I keep a little list of all the people who pat my behind without permission and several of them have died un-natural and un-timely deaths."-Julia, "Designing Women"

"This is what it's all been about. All the hatred and suffering and fighting and dying...over nothing 
more then the colors that can be  found in a child's crayola box."

"Kids Mess you up...you spend the rest of your life yelling at something you don't  understand."




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From john at walton.vu  Sun Dec 23 16:12:04 2001
From: john at walton.vu (John Walton)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 11:12:04 -0500
Subject: LOTR review
In-Reply-To: <a048ds+j1df@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B84B6C84.2EF4%john@walton.vu>

Having just read Amy's review, as a complete non-LoTR book fan (I reread
them a couple of years ago, during the Famous Sojourn In Portugal, and was
unimpressed compared with, say, The Wheel of Time), let me say that I will
be dashing out to buy LoTR *today*. Cass, Ashley and I saw it last night,
and I was totally bowled over. I need to see it again, mainly because my
inner HP fan was saying "This is so much better than our movie" about four
times a minute (that's about 700 or 800 times during the movie). I need to
see it without that, as I now *know* it's much better than our movie, and I
also need to see it alone or without someone like Cassie sitting next to me,
as I felt the urge to make slashy comments *far, far* too often. ("Did that
dirty little dwarf just feel up Frodo? Eww!"  "Did you see that look on Ian
McKellen's face? Oo-er...where did Saruman just hit *him*?")

My review is probably going to make lots of comparisons with the PS/SS
movie. Hey, this *is* an HP list :D

Everything about this film was SO much better than PS/SS. I can't think of
one thing (besides Sean Biggerstaff) that I enjoyed more in PS/SS than I did
in LoTR. Hero? Dan looked the part but his acting was, understandably since
he's not even a teenager yet, a little lacking. Despite Amy's concern about
Frodo's age, Cass, Ashley and I were discussing it in the car last night and
agree that it's showing Frodo's immaturity more than anything else.
(However, neither Ash nor I, who aren't book fans, realised that there was a
40-year gap between the Ring being left with Frodo and Gandalf's return.)

> All that time showing us lush scenery and amazing sets, as much as I loved
> them, could have been spent giving us a lot more of JRRT's dialogue.

As someone none too keen on JRRT's dialogue and characterisations in the
first place (I found most of the characters much more multifaceted in the
movie and, unusually, I had a less vivid mental picture for almost all of
them than the movie pictures), I didn't miss it. I thought that the scenery
and sets were what really *made* the movie in a different world. I will now
have to go visit my cousins in NZ to visit it.

> If I hadn't read the book, I would have left the movie theater knowing
> Gandalf and Boromir and no one else.

As someone who spent most of the movie going "Oh no! I hope Legolas doesn't
die! If he dies then I can't lust after him because that would be squicky!",
I disagree to an extent. Character development in a movie with nine
protagonists is very difficult. Perhaps you're comparing the character you
got from the book with the one you got from the movie?

> A possible exception is Sam, who is thus far *better* than he is in the book
> (where "he keeps on saying 'sir' to Frodo until one begins to have mad visions
> of founding a Hobbit Socialist Party," to quote my second-favorite JRRT fan,
> Ursula LeGuin); 

I *still* agree with Ursula LeGuin. I think that the "sir" thing could have
been left out. They're meant to bloody well be contemporaries... *frowns*

> also missing is insight into the moral dilemma.  Boromir isn't just envious
> and overly proud; he makes a really important point, one with a lot of merit
> (and one that any of us might make concerning, oh, say, nuclear weapons):
> isn't it folly to destroy the most powerful weapon we have, especially since
> the only way to destroy it is to carry it right under Sauron's nose, which is
> most likely as effective as FedExing it to his door?

I agree with you, that aspect *is* missing and would have been easy enought
to insert in the Council scene...

> Another thing missing from the decision is all the tension about
> leaving the Shire.  Aside from telling us about Sam, the scene where
> he looks into the Mirror of Galadriel is important because it shows
> that they might be sacrificing the Shire by going to Mt. Doom.  What
> they left in shows what will happen to the Shire if they *don't*
> complete the quest; that makes Frodo's decision to go on easier.  But
> in the book, Sam's choice to go on is made *harder* by what he sees
> there, and the moral question is compounded--should he be staying home
> to take care of things there, or should he gamble everything he loves,
> everything they're trying to save, on this crazy long shot to destroy
> the Ring?  We know the right answer, but in the book Sam doesn't; he's
> tormented.

I think this *is* a necessary cut. Sam will get much more character
development in the next two books. I think the time was better spent on
developing the other characters (however little).

> Their mistrust of Strider is likewise excised.

I didn't get that feeling at all. Their mistrust of *everyone* in Bree
extended to Strider.

> Something that could have been drastically cut to provide time for
> all this stuff was the fight with the cave troll in Moria.  What the
> heck was that all about?  Come on, have a little skirmish in the tomb,
> let us see Frodo get stabbed so everyone learns about the mithril
> mail, and get to the main action with the Balrog.  In general the
> fight scenes went on too long, but this one was breaking records.

I have to agree with you. My inner Draco was rolling his eyes and going, "A
FIRE demon? Puh-leeeeze..." And the troll, however well done, did go on for
too long. 

> I loved lots of the details:  Elrond's hair tied into Celtic knots,
> the winding stairs in Lorien, the white hand on the Uruk-hai (I always
> pictured it as a little tattoo-like thing, and I don't think JRRT
> specified; having it a mark literally branded by a hand is terrific),
> the way the orcs look and move, the hand of the Nazgul.  I loved the
> way things look when Frodo's invisible:  it really captures the sense
> that the Ring doesn't just make him invisible, but makes him more
> visible to evil (and evil more visible to him).  All the acting was
> fine--well, I'd be happier if Liv Tyler would just face facts and stop
> calling herself an actress, but she didn't have much to do.

I agree heartily on everything but Liv Tyler -- I thought she and ALL the
other acting was absolutely fantastic.

> Sean 
> Bean, who gets the best role in the book, was terrific, and I hope he
> played Faramir too so that we haven't seen the last of him (doubt it,
> though; there's no mention of it at IMDB).  I love that they cast Cate
> Blanchett, who does not have movie-star beauty, for Galadriel; it
> conveys the fact that her magnetism is based on something much more
> powerful than sex appeal.

Cass and I were discussing how great it was that they pumped up the women's
roles in the movie -- both Arwen and Galadriel are actually *characters*
now.

> I love the way they intercut between what
> is happening to Gandalf and what's happening to the hobbits (though
> they cut the travel time between Hobbiton and Rivendell so drastically
> that Gandalf appears to have been imprisoned at Isengard for only a
> week or two--and the orcs deforested Isengard and did all that forging
> in that brief span of time as well).

I didn't get that feeling -- I felt that, for the orcs to have deforested
Isengard, it must have taken longer and that everything else must therefore
have taken longer too.

> I love the way the hobbit children look, and the
> furry feet.  I was even okay with the fact that Elijah Wood looks 17
> instead of Frodo's 51 (or, since he's had the Ring since age 33, 33),
> though I still find it bizarre that they made this choice.  I suspect
> they were going for teen girl appeal.

*coughs, says nothing, looks at Al and munches on humble pie*

--John
________________________________

John Walton -- john at walton.vu

Percy smiled back, reminding himself not to let his face show exactly how
gorgeous he found Oliver.  *Aloof, unavailable, Head Boy. Aloof, unavailable
Head Boy. With girlfriend.*

>From Keeper's Secrets, Chapter 2, by Wood's Keeper
http://www.astronomytower.org/cgi-bin/links/jump.cgi?ID=301
________________________________





From Zorb17 at aol.com  Sun Dec 23 17:54:14 2001
From: Zorb17 at aol.com (Zorb17 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 12:54:14 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] LOTR review/Reaction based on levels of fannishness
Message-ID: <c9.1aa55d71.29577446@aol.com>

Hi everyone, I'm new to the list.  I saw LOTR last night, and I was 
absolutely blown away.  It was a gorgeous film in every aspect.  You could 
see that unlike some *other* recent fantasy films, there was monumental 
effort put into every scene, every character.  *This* is how PS/SS should 
have been done.  Many scenes were exactly how I pictured them (Isengard for 
example - dead on!), and the others were better than my mental image.

Al said:
"Basically, my point is, when it comes to movies adapted from books, 
will people who have read the books find that their opinions and 
enjoyment levels of the movies are changed in any way?  I think it 
may well be the case.  Would be interested to know what you all think."

I'm a huge fan of the books; I read them about once a year.  Therefore, I was 
amazed when I reacted to the characters in the same way I initially reacted 
to them in the books.  Aragorn, for example: When I first read FOTR, I 
distrusted the man at first and gradually warmed up to him on the way to 
Rivendell.  The same thing happened to me in the movie, even though I knew 
what was coming with his character!  That, to me, is the mark of an 
outstanding film.

I think that having read the book *does* change the enjoyment level of the 
movie, but not necessarily in a downward fashion.  In this case, my 
book-knowledge *augmented* my enjoyment.  Seeing how my favorite scenes were 
put onscreen was a spectacular experience here, as opposed to "our" movie, in 
which it went both ways.

I cannot say enough about how perfect I thought the actors were.  Gandalf - 
*was* Gandalf - a standout performance.  I can't say enough about how 
wonderful he was.  It's funny, the Hobbits look nothing like I picture them, 
but as the movie went on I grew to like them this way.  Same for Elrond.  I 
was worried about the expansion of Arwen's role, but I ended up liking it.  

I could gush about LOTR for hours, but I won't.  Suffice it to say, I think 
it deserves all the praise anyone could give it and more.

That said, like any true fan, I have nitpicks. ;-)  The shift from the Shire 
to Bree was a bit abrupt, although I guess that's what comes from eliminating 
Tom Bombadill.  I seriously disliked how they had Saruman causing the storm 
on Caradhras; it takes away from the feeling of Nature's own elemental power 
that you get in the books.  I also thought the troll-fight went on too long, 
although the rest of Moria was fabulous.  Lothlorien got a bit jipped, 
IMNSHO.  I, too, missed the debate at the Falls; the movie made it seem like 
Aragorn sort of pushes Frodo into leaving, and I prefer the Fellowship being 
at an impasse and Frodo making the decision on his own.  Finally, the Sword 
that was Broken is one of my favorite bits in the book that got sort of 
changed and then left out.

I place full blame on this fandom for my uncontrollable giggling every time 
Frodo and Sam got near each other! <glares at slash writers>


Zorb


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Dec 23 19:45:29 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 19:45:29 -0000
Subject: Flats / LOTR
Message-ID: <a05c8p+m2fk@eGroups.com>

Saitaina wrote:

> It is like our American that go up to 4 bedrooms?

Saitaina, dear, there is no limit that apartments can have no more 
than four bedrooms. There are five- and six bedroom apartments. I 
remember some little thing on the news years ago about some 
Rockefellers paying some ridiculous amount of money to knock down the 
wall between the six bedroom apartment they had in one Manhattan 
building and the six bedroom apartment they had in an adjacent 
Manhattan building to create one twelve bedroom apartment. 

Amy wrote:

>  thinks the problem is that the Council of Elrond is cut short and

Long ago I heard a radio with (the scriptwriter?) who described the 
whole creative team bashing their heads over the Council of Elrond 
until they realised it was one long committee meeting, and committee 
meetings, no matter how thrilling in written form, don't make good 
movie scenes.

John wrote:

> I *still* agree with Ursula LeGuin. I think that the "sir" thing
> could have been left out. They're meant to bloody well be 
> contemporaries... *frowns*

It's social class, not age. For Tolkien, one of the things that was 
good about the Shire and the old days and bad about Mordor and modern 
times is that social class was rigid and taken for granted in the old 
days, and nowadays people try to get above their upbringing. Tolkien 
was fabulous in many ways, but that was not one of them.  




From heathernmoore at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 23 22:14:41 2001
From: heathernmoore at yahoo.com (heathernmoore)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 22:14:41 -0000
Subject: LOTR review
In-Reply-To: <B84B6C84.2EF4%john@walton.vu>
Message-ID: <a05l0h+4oid@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., John Walton <john at w...> wrote:

> > A possible exception is Sam, who is thus far *better* than he is in the book
> > (where "he keeps on saying 'sir' to Frodo until one begins to have mad visions
> > of founding a Hobbit Socialist Party," to quote my second-favorite JRRT fan,
> > Ursula LeGuin); 
> 

(Whoops ... okay, John starts HERE:)

> I *still* agree with Ursula LeGuin. I think that the "sir" thing could have
> been left out. They're meant to bloody well be contemporaries... *frowns*
> 




 Actually, they're not. The Gamgees are sort of the "po white trash"
of the Shire, and Samwise is an employee of the Bagginses. Frodo
always sees more in Sam than Sam sees in himself, and it makes it all
the more rewarding when at the end of the series.... well, now, that
would just be telling, wouldn't it? :)






From pkerr06 at attglobal.net  Sun Dec 23 22:29:23 2001
From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 16:29:23 -0600
Subject: LOTR
Message-ID: <3C265AC3.CBA39777@attglobal.net>

I've seen Peter Jackson's LOTR: FOTR twice now.  I'm a big HP fan, as
you know, but before that, I was a big LOTR fan. In fact, I'm obsessive
about both, and that tendency of mine to become extremely obsessiveness
about stories of wonder is a big part of the reason I became a fantasy
writer.

One of the things which struck me very much was a throw away remark in
one of the reviews I read about the movie. This critic commented that
Tolkien's influence on the field of fantasy fiction is so enormous that
Tolkien is to fantasy literature as the image of Mount Fuji is to
Japanese art.  He's always THERE--just as in Japanese landscape art, you
will always see Mount Fuji--maybe close up, maybe distant, or maybe you
won't see it at all--and then you realize that's because the artist has
painted the picture as if he's standing on Mount Fuji, and so the
landscape is painted from that perspective.

Upon seeing the movie, I turned to one of my favorite essays, by Emma
Bull, entitled "Why I Write Fantasy."  It's very hard to find
(originally published in Pulphouse: The Hardback Magazine, Winter 1990
Issue Six, although it has been reprinted in a couple other places, very
small press).  Here are some selected bits:

>>>
"To some people, fantasy is entry-level literature. It's written for
children, to excite and entertain them, and to get them hooked on the
thrill and power of reading.  Or it's written more or less for adults,
but best used to lure jaded teenagers into a book habit, accompanied by
a speech like, "if you're into Dungeons and Dragons, you might like . .
."

. . .

Now this is perfectly respectable work for fantasy to do, this business
of introducing kids to the delicious addiction of reading.  But some
people think that's its only work. . . . I know why I write fantasy--I
know it somewhere down below and behind my lungs.  But I can explain it
less well than I can explain why breathing puts oxygen in my blood.  I
know I _don't_ write fantasy so that someday teenagers will grow up and
stop liking my books.  No, there's something I want to get across to
both kids and adults that just won't take root and grow in the otherwise
fertile ground of realism.

I know that other writers have felt this way.  The tradition of fantasy
is as old as literature; Western literature begins with fantasy [gives
examples, i.e., Illiad, Beowulf, etc.] . . and if you respond that this
is literature from the "childhood" of civilization, I'll warn you that
you're badly underestimating your ancestors.

Fantasy has an unbroken lineage from then until the present, as a
vehicle to amuse kings and queens, to uplift the spirits of men and
women, and to make harsh political statements in such a way as to keep
the writer out of prison . . .We value imagination in children.  We
encourage it.  Why don't we nurture imagination in adults?  Why don't we
urge them to dream fantastical things, conceive of strange futures,
emphasize the wonder of the world around them? We're in a bad way here:
choking on our own emissions, wading in our own trash, cringing in a
brass-knuckled, hit-him-before-he-hits-you world. . . . In self defense,
a rational society that values control, order, logic, and citizens who
know their place _has_ to devalue fantasy. The moral world of the
corporate raider and the Harvard MBA dictates that it's a hard world,
where you have to do hard things to survive.  Accountability is for
suckers and doing the right thing regardless of the profit is for
wimps.  These people can't afford to encourage respect for literature
that tells stories like this:

One small, ordinary person makes a long, terrible journey to destroy a
ring, a source of great evil.  He knows that, instead of destroying the
thing, he could take its power and wield it for good, to help his
friends, destroy an even greater evil.  The great and good wise people
around him say that would corrupt him, that he couldn't use that power
without becoming evil himself-but what if he could?  In the course of
his journey, he is warped and twisted and hurt beyond recovery, and he
thinks he may die--though all he has to do is use the ring and he will
never die at all.  He knows all of this, but he keeps on because _it's
the right thing to do._

No, the people who believe that whoever dies with the most money wins
can't afford to have us read and love Tolkien's LOTR.  It's subversive
literature, and the only way they can be safe is to convince us all that
it's only fit for children.  Because who'll take notice if a child
stands up, and points to them, and says, "Mommy, those people are
lying?"

I remember the first time I read LOTR, in high school sometime.  I read
the last few pages, in which the hobbit Frodo sails in his old age for
the lands of the West where heroes go, the awful price of carrying the
ring and breaking the back of darkness at last.  I went out onto the
patio of my parents' house, and I stood for a long time, looking at the
sunset.  No story, no history, no instructive biography or sermon had
ever made me feel the way I felt then: that humanity has an infinite
capacity for nobility, for goodness, for strength used with wisdom and
informed by mercy, and I was part of that.


>>>>

This is Peg again.  That quality that Emma described in her essay, that
she found in Tolkien, I found in Tolkien, too, when I read LOTR in
college.  And I responded to it in the same way.  I found it again in
the Harry Potter books, which is why I responded to them so strongly,
too.  I think Emma really has put her finger on something important here
(not the least being the reason The New York Times insisted on moving
the Harry Potter books to a newly created "childrens" book list).

I found those same feelings when I watched the movie.  And yes, I see
that it's not perfect, and it doesn't match the book exactly, but what
it does do (for me) is to tap into those same feelings that Emma
described: feelings of wonder, of awe, of great events, of power of
human striving even in the face of the fear of certain doom.  This movie
has all of that for me (like Star Wars did for me over twenty years ago,
which was another story I became obsessed with.  Like Star Wars, it blew
open the audience's expectations of what a movie can do).

After careful thought all weekend, I've made my decision: it may not be
perfect, this movie may not be exactly true to the details of the book
Tolkien wrote, but for me it is true to the spirit, because it taps that
core of wonder I've been searching for all of my life.

For that reason, I believe LOTR: FOTR is the best movie I've ever seen
in my entire life.  I can't wait to see the next ones.

Cheers,
Peg




From mojca.rupnik at eudoramail.com  Sun Dec 23 22:59:04 2001
From: mojca.rupnik at eudoramail.com (racjom)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 22:59:04 -0000
Subject: Feeling better
Message-ID: <a05njo+4qbb@eGroups.com>

Last weekend I posted on being sad about my dad being in a hospital. 
He's still in a pretty similar state (it is going to take a long time 
before he is well again), but I am feeling a lot better, in part 
thanks to those wonderful people that sent me posts. You helped me 
feel good again. I guess I wasn't helping anybody (him or myself) by 
feeling sad and miserable.

Happy Holidays everyone!

Mojca 





From mojca.rupnik at eudoramail.com  Sun Dec 23 23:01:58 2001
From: mojca.rupnik at eudoramail.com (racjom)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 23:01:58 -0000
Subject: Feeling better
Message-ID: <a05np6+5ur1@eGroups.com>

Last weekend I posted on being sad about my dad being in a hospital. 
He's still in a pretty similar state (it is going to take a long time 
before he is well again), but I am feeling a lot better, in part 
thanks to those wonderful people that sent me posts. You helped me 
feel good again. I guess I wasn't helping anybody (him or myself) by 
feeling sad and miserable.

Happy Holidays everyone!

Mojca 





From john at walton.vu  Mon Dec 24 02:55:07 2001
From: john at walton.vu (John Walton)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 21:55:07 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: LOTR review
In-Reply-To: <a05l0h+4oid@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B84C033B.2F5E%john@walton.vu>

I said:
>> I *still* agree with Ursula LeGuin. I think that the "sir" thing could have
>> been left out. They're meant to bloody well be contemporaries... *frowns*

Heather replied:
> Actually, they're not. The Gamgees are sort of the "po white trash"
> of the Shire, and Samwise is an employee of the Bagginses. Frodo
> always sees more in Sam than Sam sees in himself, and it makes it all
> the more rewarding when at the end of the series.... well, now, that
> would just be telling, wouldn't it? :)

Oh, okay. *mutters* In that case, the movie should have made that clear to
people like me who thought that all the Hobbits were childhood friends and
knew each other from sitting around listening to people tell stories.

--John, who cannot WAIT to see LoTR again!

________________________________

John Walton -- john at walton.vu

Percy smiled back, reminding himself not to let his face show exactly how
gorgeous he found Oliver.  *Aloof, unavailable, Head Boy. Aloof, unavailable
Head Boy. With girlfriend.*

>From Keeper's Secrets, Chapter 2, by Wood's Keeper
http://www.astronomytower.org/cgi-bin/links/jump.cgi?ID=301
________________________________





From virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 24 03:12:44 2001
From: virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com (virtualworldofhp)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 03:12:44 -0000
Subject: SHIPPING news! (from main list)
Message-ID: <a066fc+du7m@eGroups.com>

"They're 15 now, hormones working overtime. And Harry has to ask 
> some questions that I hope the reader will think 'well why hasn't he 
> asked this before?' ">
> 
> I have no idea what this means.  I'm not sure what questions Harry 
> might ask in relation to girls that I would wonder why he hasn't asked 
> before.

*suddenly has horrible images of Harry in the middle of a casual
conversation with H&R and then popping out, "So where /do/ you reckon
babies come from anyway?"*

*suddenly has images which are far, far, worse than this, but choose
not to share them to preserve some sort of integrity*

What are your possible scenarios?
"Hey Ron, is that something in your pocket, or are you just happy to
see me?" (and NO, that would not be Harry speaking.  I am not a slash
shipper)
"Good lord, soandso has some huge knockers!  Wow!" (somehow this would
be Ron, <vbg>)
and other horrible imaginings of hormonely-driven teenage boys.

Almost enough to make me join the no-shipping island (almost).

-Megan (feelings extremely silly)




From heathernmoore at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 24 04:20:20 2001
From: heathernmoore at yahoo.com (heathernmoore)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 04:20:20 -0000
Subject: Feeling better
In-Reply-To: <a05np6+5ur1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a06ae4+4ug0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "racjom" <mojca.rupnik at e...> wrote:
> Last weekend I posted on being sad about my dad being in a hospital. 
> He's still in a pretty similar state (it is going to take a long time 
> before he is well again), but I am feeling a lot better, in part 
> thanks to those wonderful people that sent me posts. You helped me 
> feel good again. I guess I wasn't helping anybody (him or myself) by 
> feeling sad and miserable.
> 
> Happy Holidays everyone!
> 
> Mojca


 It's wonderful that you're feeling better, Mojca -- and just remember
that as hard as it is for your dad, you'll be able to help smoothe out
some of the rough edges for him just by being there and standing
by him. It isn't always *obvious* that you're helping, but having been
down there in the trenches myself in the past, I can tell you for a
fact that you *are.*

  much love,

    -- heather (uma)





From alyeskakc at netzero.net  Mon Dec 24 06:28:14 2001
From: alyeskakc at netzero.net (alyeskakc)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 06:28:14 -0000
Subject: Reaction to films based on levels of fannish-ness - LOTR
In-Reply-To: <a04752+q1pa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a06htv+kc2q@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "dracos_boyfriend" 
<dracos_boyfriend at y...> wrote:

> Basically, my point is, when it comes to movies adapted from books, 
> will people who have read the books find that their opinions and 
> enjoyment levels of the movies are changed in any way?  I think it 
> may well be the case.  Would be interested to know what you all 
think.
> 
> Al


I think IMO that if you read a book first and then see the movie you 
do go in with certain expectations. I know that when I see a movie, 
that I've read the book first, I'm always slightly disappointed.  As 
I read I set up the scenes in my head and how things should look. 
Some movies come closer to what I thought they should be like and 
others just fail miserably. 

Stephen King novels adapted to film are among the worst offenders in 
my book. They're are a few gems in what is otherwise complete and 
utter rubbish. The Shining and Carrie come to mind. However Pet 
Cemetary and Christine should be banned and all copies of these films 
burned. 

I was pleseantly surprised by Interview with the Vampire, although I 
still believe that Brad Pitt would have made a better Lestat than a 
Louis and Tom Cruise should have been booted entirely. It will be 
interesting to see how Queen of the Damned turns out.

On the other side of the coin seeing a movie before reading the book 
may have more advantages. I don't go into with preconceived ideas and 
I can just enjoy it on it's own merit. If I really like it I'll then 
go buy the book to read. If I don't like I may still go get the book 
to see if they did a hack job on the movie. Most of the time I do end 
up liking the book better than the movie. Others, as in the case of 
Jurrasic Park, it's a draw. Both are equally good.

I guess bottom line, reading a book first does tend to skew my 
perspective when it comes to the movie, and can alter my enjoyment of 
it. Especially if they've totally change the story. 

Just my 2 knuts.

Cheers,
Kristin






From pkerr06 at attglobal.net  Mon Dec 24 07:16:00 2001
From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (bluesox4113)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 07:16:00 -0000
Subject: Flats / LOTR
In-Reply-To: <a05c8p+m2fk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a06kng+8b8g@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "catlady_de_los_angeles" <catlady at w...> 
wrote:
>
> 
> John wrote:
> 
> > I *still* agree with Ursula LeGuin. I think that the "sir" thing
> > could have been left out. They're meant to bloody well be 
> > contemporaries... *frowns*
> 
> It's social class, not age. For Tolkien, one of the things that was 
> good about the Shire and the old days and bad about Mordor and 
modern 
> times is that social class was rigid and taken for granted in the 
old 
> days, and nowadays people try to get above their upbringing.
Tolkien 
> was fabulous in many ways, but that was not one of them.

I think I remember an interesting discussion of this very point in, I 
believe, Humphrey Carpenter's biography of Tolkien.  Tolkien 
always was irritated by critics who tried to argue that LOTR was a 
sort of allegory about World War II.  Whether or not WWII shaped the 
writing of the book, Carpenter, however, makes a good argument that a 
lot of Tolkien's experience in World War I was probably an even bigger 
influence on the book.  Remember, Tolkien personally experienced 
trench warfare.  The blasted landscape, the mustard gas, the fatigue, 
the hunger, the terror--sounds like Mordor, doesn't it?  And he lost 
two of his dearest friends in WWI--I'm sure he was thinking about that 
when he wrote the scene where Aragorn comforts Boromir at his death.

But the point that I found particularly interesting in Carpenter's 
discussion is that he hypothesizes that Tolkien based the
relationship between Sam and Frodo upon the relationships he saw 
between the officers he knew in the army with their batmen.  A batman 
is an orderly of an officer in the British army; he waits upon the 
officer, keeps his gear in order, etc.  These relationships often 
became extremely close, particularly if the batman respected and 
admired his officer, and under the extreme conditions of warfare.  
When you think about it, that is precisely Sam's relationship with 
Frodo.  He looks after him, manages the gear, cooks the meals, 
feels responsible for him, etc.  This explanation makes sense to me, 
and if Carpenter is right, that's probably why Tolkien had Sam address 
Frodo as "sir." That is how batmen address the officers they are 
serving, and so it probably felt "right" to Tolkien as he was writing. 
 Not just a class thing, but a military thing.

Cheers,
Peg




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Dec 24 09:42:13 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 09:42:13 -0000
Subject: Seasons Greetings!
Message-ID: <a06t9l+3gs0@eGroups.com>

Well Christmas Eve Day is starting off normally for a Domestic 
Goddess with 3 munchkins...I'm off to the doctor's office this 
morning!  David's impetigo has come back, so the poor lad is getting 
an early Christmas present of antibiotics.  I'm just pleased that my 
doctor has a surgery this morning (bless him :)) and that I don't 
have to drag the kids to the hospital for David's prescription.

But apart from that one little blip we're all ready for Christmas, 
what with presents hidden all over the house, an overstuffed freezer, 
3 hyperspastic kids and no remaining credit limit whatsoever.  So 
I'll take this opportunity to wish everyone a happy holiday season, 
and specifically a Merry Christmas to fellow Christians.  I hope 2002 
will be a happy and prosperous year for all of you.  I'm going to 
have a drink in honour of you all, but I promise to wait 'til this 
afternoon :)

Cheers!

Mary Ann :)




From naama_gat at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 24 11:34:45 2001
From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naamagatus)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 11:34:45 -0000
Subject: Reaction to films based on levels of fannish-ness - LOTR
In-Reply-To: <a04752+q1pa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a073sl+5gq3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "dracos_boyfriend" 
<dracos_boyfriend at y...> wrote:


> Basically, my point is, when it comes to movies adapted from books, 
> will people who have read the books find that their opinions and 
> enjoyment levels of the movies are changed in any way?  I think it 
> may well be the case.  Would be interested to know what you all 
think.
> 

Well, that's not the case with me. I love HP but REVERE LotR, and I 
thought the HP movie stunk to high heaven, whereas The LotR movies, 
on the other hand, I thought amazing. I left the movie theater on a 
huge rush of adrenaline. (The last time I felt a similar rush was 
after Bladerunner, I think, and that's about fifteen years ago.)

I have a friend whose a huge Tolkien fan (one of the really rabid 
ones) and he loved the movie too. So, I really think that the 
different opinions stem from the real differences between the two 
movies, namely that one is BAD and the other is GOOD.

Naama, who is VERY angry about the HP movie (could you tell?)




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 24 16:41:18 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 16:41:18 -0000
Subject: LOTR review
In-Reply-To: <B84B6C84.2EF4%john@walton.vu>
Message-ID: <a07lre+q4tf@eGroups.com>

John wrote:

> Despite Amy's 
concern about
> Frodo's age, Cass, Ashley and I were discussing it in the car last 
night and
> agree that it's showing Frodo's immaturity more than anything else.
> (However, neither Ash nor I, who aren't book fans, realised that 
there was a
> 40-year gap between the Ring being left with Frodo and Gandalf's 
return.)

There is a long gap in the book (about 20 years), but not in the 
movie.  I don't think Frodo *is* immature.  Naive, a bit, but less 
so than most hobbits.  You know how old Bilbo is in that quick shot in 
the preface where he finds the ring?  That's how old Frodo is when he 
sets off to Bree--possibly looking younger because he's had the ring 
for 20 years and it stretches out one's life, as Bilbo illustrates.  
Oh well, I'm a purist and have therefore condemned myself to 
grumbling.

> As someone none too keen on JRRT's dialogue and characterisations in 
the
> first place (I found most of the characters much more multifaceted 
in the
> movie

Now this is what interests me.  Who seems multifaceted to you?  I 
wanted to know so much more about all of them.  I didn't know much 
about Legolas *except* the way he looked, which is very nice if it 
floats your boat (he's not my type, I guess) but doesn't tell us 
anything else.  We don't even get the rivalry between Legolas and 
Gimli.  Maybe we'll get it later, in Helms Deep.

> I agree with you, that aspect *is* missing and would have been easy 
enought
> to insert in the Council scene...

Yeah, I appreciate that committee meetings don't make great cinema, 
but they supposedly don't make great literature either and yet JRRT 
pulls it off.

I wrote:
 
> > Another thing missing from the decision is all the tension about
> > leaving the Shire.  Aside from telling us about Sam, the scene 
where
> > he looks into the Mirror of Galadriel is important because it 
shows
> > that they might be sacrificing the Shire by going to Mt. Doom. 

John wrote:

> I think this *is* a necessary cut. Sam will get much more character
> development in the next two books. 

I know, I know, they have to cut something.  I just don't agree with a 
lot of their choices.  This is a place where I think Kloves did a 
better job than Jackson; Kloves cut out lots of lovely things I hated 
to see disappear, but just the same, when I saw HP I was nodding and 
saying, "yep, if I had to cut something, that's what I'd cut."

> Cass and I were discussing how great it was that they pumped up the 
women's
> roles in the movie -- both Arwen and Galadriel are actually 
*characters*
> now.

Yeah, I like that too.  JRRT seemed to not have women on his radar 
screen most of the time at all.  (In his writing, that is, not in real 
life; his relationship with his wife seems to have been very nice.)

> I felt that, for the orcs to have 
deforested
> Isengard, it must have taken longer and that everything else must 
therefore
> have taken longer too.

Right, me too--but then are we supposed to think that the whole trip 
from Bree to Rivendell took all that time?  It's possible, but it 
really seemed like just a few days.

I wrote:

>  I 
suspect
> > they were going for teen girl appeal.

John
 
> *coughs, says nothing, looks at Al and munches on humble pie*

Sorry, no heterosexism intended.  Of course they could've been going 
for teen boy appeal too, but somehow I doubt that's foremost in most 
big-budget moviemakers' minds.  A shame, but there you have it.

Amy




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Mon Dec 24 17:45:26 2001
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 17:45:26 -0000
Subject: Pippin's LOTR Review
Message-ID: <a07pjm+il9b@eGroups.com>


    I happily award this picture all four stars and full marks for 
magical movie-making. It was amazing to see the breadth and 
splendor of Middle-earth unfolding on the screen. The Shire and 
Moria were especially convincing...they really did look just as I 
had imagined them, only more so. The four Hobbits were 
perfectly realized, fuzzy feet and all.  Though I have read and 
reread LOTR countless times since the age of fourteen, and can 
still recite large chunks of it from memory, I felt the cuts and 
changes left the spirit of the books intact. Tolkien's love of nature 
and his fear and suspicion of the machine came through in the 
wide shots of the Misty Mountains and the Great River, and the 
powerful depiction of the wasting of Isengard. 
     I got a kick out of the two Bakshi tribute scenes  I spotted. On 
the other hand the cave troll in Moria looked entirely too much 
like the Rancor from RotJ, and the fight went on so long that I 
had time to wonder if anybody was going to chuck a skull at it, 
Luke Skywalker style, or stick something up its nose. The Balrog 
was mighty impressive, so I suppose I can forgive the fact that it 
looked like a refugee from Doom. And I could have done without 
"Let's hunt some Orc!" though to be fair, the original line 'Forth 
the three hunters!" is as bad as its campy replacement. I can 
tolerate it in the book, on the screen it would have been abysmal.  
I also wasn't impressed by the duel between Saruman and 
Gandalf, another innovation from the book. Those are all nits: the 
only thing that really jarred was the dialogue coaching. Pippin's 
characterization was great, but his accent was all over the place. 
On the other hand, Gandalf was perfect, conveying both the 
mystery and the humility of this character in every scene.
    I was glad that Arwen was rescued from  the appendix (F, was 
it?) , and given something to do.   Making her stronger makes up 
for kinder, gentler scruffier Strider, I guess. Vigo was way cool, 
but not a bit like the Aragorn in my head. Anyway, his character 
development was so obscure in the original that giving him a 
different one didn't bother me too much.
	  I don't think  FotR will prove to be  as significant as  Star Wars 
ANH.  No one would ever have been willing to invest three 
hundred million dollars to make a Tolkien movie if George Lucas 
hadn't had the courage to make SW for a tenth of that. And 
George finessed The Servant Problem  by making his faithful 
retainers/batsmen into Droids, while Sam's servant status 
remains a problem, at least for a filmmaker with a twentyfirst 
century sensibility.
	As a problem in adaptation, I think LOTR begins with a leg up 
over its rival HP. Tolkien's imagination was more cinematic than 
Rowling's. Tolkien gives you huge vistas and set piece battles. 
JKR's is a far more intimate kind of story telling. Also, Tolkien 
has, in the fifty years of its existence, muscled its way into the 
literary canon and chained itself to the shelf. I read no opinion 
pieces murmuring with alarm that the Hollywood version of 
LOTR might displace the novel in the imagination of the public 
as "the" version of the tale. That gave the filmmakers more 
freedom to re-imagine the story for the screen instead of just 
translating it.
	   I   don't think it is fair  to say that HP was made with less love. 
The love that went into HP is "the love gift of a fairy tale". It is a 
film that adults made for their children who love HP. When those 
children grow up, and have children and grandchildren of their 
own,  they will be able to bring their life-long imaginings  and 
their grown up talents and abilities to the story. Then we will get 
a new HP movie, and I hope, a better one.   I, barring wizardly 
extensions in life span, will probably not be there to see it. It is 
hard for the young to hear that mere years make such a 
difference, but they do. That is one of the things that the wise 
wizards of LOTR, HP and SW have to teach us.

Pippin 




From cassandraclaire at mail.com  Mon Dec 24 19:14:10 2001
From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (cassandraclaire73)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 19:14:10 -0000
Subject: LOTR review
In-Reply-To: <a07lre+q4tf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a07uq2+n70a@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "lupinesque" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> John wrote:
> 
> > Despite Amy's   concern about Frodo's age, Cass, Ashley and I 
were discussing it in the car last  night and > agree that it's 
showing Frodo's immaturity more than anything else.
> > (However, neither Ash nor I, who aren't book fans, realised that 
> there was a  40-year gap between the Ring being left with Frodo and 
Gandalf's  return.)
> 
Ames: There is a long gap in the book (about 20 years), but not in 
the  movie.  I don't think Frodo *is* immature.  Naive, a bit, but 
less   so than most hobbits.  You know how old Bilbo is in that quick 
shot in  the preface where he finds the ring?  That's how old Frodo 
is when he   sets off to Bree--possibly looking younger because he's 
had the ring  for 20 years and it stretches out one's life, as Bilbo 
illustrates.   Oh well, I'm a purist and have therefore condemned 
myself to   grumbling.


As someone who's read Lord of the Rings but probably couldn't be 
called a fan -- I sat down and read through them all in a sort of 
grimly dutiful fashion, feeling like I *should* -- I was first 
surprised and then rather pleased with Elijah's casting as Frodo. 
Maybe they were going for teen girl appeal, and I am simply 
shallow. :D Obviously, in a movie, you're usually going to get 
characters more attractive than they are in a book -- ie Hermione in 
PS -- because it's one thing to read about a funny-looking character 
and another thing to have to stare at an absolutely huge version of 
their face for 3 hours. That said, I didn't really mean that Elijah's 
youthful appearance was highlighting Frodo's immaturity so much as 
his naivete and simple lack of experience with the world outside the 
Shire, evil in particular. Also, the tale is a journey of growth for 
Frodo -- less so than many hero-tales, but the elements are there -- 
and while 51 may be young for a hobbit, I don't think an audience 
could visually connect with a 51-year-old looking hero as basically 
innocent, inexperienced, just starting forth on a perilous quest that 
will change his life. Hmm. There's just something more poignant about 
it when they all seem so young -- it's hard to explain. 

Or maybe I just like watching Elijah's pretty blue eyes tear up. :D

Cassie




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 24 19:35:12 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 19:35:12 -0000
Subject: Happy birthday, Catriona!
Message-ID: <a0801g+pn1n@eGroups.com>

Today is the birthday of Catriona, a.k.a. Incitata!  May your wishes 
all come true and may your House Quidditch team be victorious (except 
not until after Harry graduates <g>).

Owls will find Catriona anywhere she may be, but it'll 
make their job easier if you point them toward hyria at yahoo.com or to 
this list.

The Birthday Elf




From alyeskakc at netzero.net  Mon Dec 24 20:18:39 2001
From: alyeskakc at netzero.net (alyeskakc)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 20:18:39 -0000
Subject: Happy Holidays To All
Message-ID: <a082iv+88c9@eGroups.com>

Here's wishing you and yours the happiest of holidays.  May all your 
Christmases be Merry and hopefully white. ANd all wishes come true 
this holiday season.

Cheers,
Kristin


'Twas The Night Before Christmas with a Few Little Changes"

'Twas the night before Christmas, when all through castle
Not a creature was stirring, not even a house elf
The stockings were hung by the chimneys with care,
In hopes that St. Nicholas soon would be there;

The children were nestled all snug in their beds,
While visions of chocolate frogs danced in their heads;
And McGonagall in her 'kerchief, and Dumbledore in his cap,
Had just settled down for a long winter's nap,

When out on the lawn there arose such a clatter,
Harry and Ron sprang from the bed to see what was the matter.
Away to the window they flew like a flash,
Tore open the shutters and threw up the sash.

The moon on the breast of the new-fallen snow
Gave the lustre of mid-day to objects below,
When, what to their wondering eyes should appear,
But a miniature sleigh, and eight tiny reindeer,

With a little old driver, so lively and quick,
They knew in a moment it must be St. Nick.
More rapid than eagles his coursers they came,
And he whistled, and shouted, and called them by name;

"Now, DASHER! Now, DANCER! Now, PRANCER and VIXEN!
On, COMET! On CUPID! On, DONDER and BLITZEN!
To the top of the battlement! to the top of the tower!
Now dash away! Dash away! Dash away all!"

As dry leaves that before the wild hurricane fly,
When they meet with an obstacle, mount to the sky,
So up to the tower-top the coursers they flew,
With the sleigh full of goodies, and St. Nicholas too.

And then, in a twinkling, they heard on the roof
The prancing and pawing of each little hoof.
As they drew back their hands, and began turning around,
Down the chimney St. Nicholas came with a bound.

He was dressed all in fur, from his head to his foot,
And his clothes were all tarnished with ashes and soot;
A bundle of goodies he had flung on his back,
And he looked like a peddler just opening his pack.

His eyes -- how they twinkled! His dimples how merry!
His cheeks were like roses, his nose like a cherry!
His droll little mouth was drawn up like a bow,
And the beard of his chin was as white as the snow;

The stump of a pipe he held tight in his teeth,
And the smoke it encircled his head like a wreath;
He had a broad face and a little round belly,
That shook, when he laughed like a bowlful of jelly.

He was chubby and plump, a right jolly old elf,
And they laughed when they saw him, in spite of themselves;
A wink of his eye and a twist of his head,
Soon gave them to know they had nothing to dread;

He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work,
And filled all the stockings; then turned with a jerk,
And laying his finger aside of his nose,
And giving a nod, up the chimney he rose;

He sprang to his sleigh, to his team gave a whistle,
And away they all flew like the down of a thistle.
But they heard him exclaim, ere he drove out of sight,

"HAPPY CHRISTMAS TO ALL, AND TO ALL A GOOD-NIGHT!"







From s_ings at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 24 20:47:18 2001
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 12:47:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Holidays
In-Reply-To: <a082iv+88c9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20011224204718.91754.qmail@web14610.mail.yahoo.com>

Wishing everyone a Happy holiday and many joys in the
New Year. These lists have a been a wonderful place to
be since I've joined. May they continue to be a great
place for us all to come together.

Sheryll, off to trudge through ankle deep slush (and
no, water-resitant boots are not waterproof :)), but
still thoroughly enjoying the holiday

=====
"We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times."
 blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon Dec 24 21:36:27 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 21:36:27 -0000
Subject: Happy Holidays
Message-ID: <a0874s+le5o@eGroups.com>

Season's greetings to you all

Have a good holiday.

David

And i-o, i-o, i-o
By seven small men sungen
                            (Peeves)




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 24 22:02:56 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 14:02:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Merry or Happy Christmas and A Much Merrier New Year!
Message-ID: <20011224220256.57479.qmail@web13705.mail.yahoo.com>

To all of you on all the Harry Potter lists! A very
Merry or Happy Christmas and a much Happier New Year!
May you all get tons of love from all your family and
friends and a gift here or two!
May you all have a great time! We are!

Tons of Schnoogles,

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetta and Her Very
Merry Band of Muggles 100% aka Roy(husband), William
and James (my teen heachaches,NOT) 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Dec 24 22:08:27 2001
From: mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk (Martin Hooper)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 22:08:27 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Merry or Happy Christmas and A Much
  Merrier New Year!
In-Reply-To: <20011224220256.57479.qmail@web13705.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011224220749.00a12440@pop.freeserve.net>

At 22:02 24/12/01, you wrote:
>To all of you on all the Harry Potter lists! A very
>Merry or Happy Christmas and a much Happier New Year!
>May you all get tons of love from all your family and
>friends and a gift here or two!
>May you all have a great time! We are!

Thanks Wanda - Although I don't think that my wish to visit Hogwarts (after 
seeing the movie!) will come true at all!!! ;)


Martin Hooper
AIM:martinjh99 ICQ: 43933602


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 24 22:12:48 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 14:12:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Merry or Happy Christmas and A Much  Merrier New Year!
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011224220749.00a12440@pop.freeserve.net>
Message-ID: <20011224221248.41646.qmail@web13709.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Martin Hooper <mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk>
wrote:
> Thanks Wanda - Although I don't think that my wish
> to visit Hogwarts (after 
> seeing the movie!) will come true at all!!! ;)

 Never give up, as long as you have your imagination,
Hogwarts will always be in your heart and mind! As
long as we have dreams, life won't be boring in the
muggle world! My house is always hopping! Between
books and movies! :D

Have a fun day tomorrow, we will!

Wanda and her 3 Stooges!


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 24 22:55:59 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 22:55:59 -0000
Subject: Happy Holidays/Update on my mother-in-law
In-Reply-To: <20011224204718.91754.qmail@web14610.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a08bpv+bbgj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Sheryll Townsend <s_ings at y...> wrote:
> Wishing everyone a Happy holiday and many joys in the
> New Year. These lists have a been a wonderful place to
> be since I've joined. May they continue to be a great
> place for us all to come together.

We're getting ready to have a large Italian Christmas Eve dinner 
soon (NOT the Feast of the Seven Fishes--we do our own thing), but 
it will also be a bit sad because of missing people around the 
table.  It turned out that my mother-in-law had a brain tumor, which 
caused the seizures she had on Thanksgiving, and she had brain 
surgery last Tuesday to remove it.  She's still in the hospital and 
will be for at least another week (or two).  After that, she will 
need to go into a rehabilitation hospital for a while.  She's very 
cheerful most of the time, but doesn't remember having brain 
surgery, why she's in the hospital, her grandchildren's names, and 
sometimes she forgets my name as well.  She is improving, though, 
since a couple of days after the surgery she was just babbling 
incoherently, and now when she can't remember a word or a name, she 
KNOWS she can't remember it and usually resorts to shouting, "Crud!" 
as she attempts to call up the memory.

My father-in-law will be staying with her at the hospital, of 
course, so we're down two people for Christmas Eve dinner.  And 
since my dad died in May and my brother has my mom down at his place 
in New Jersey for Christmas, it just feels like there are so many 
empty places.

You guys have been great, and I know I don't need to ask for good 
thoughts and prayers for my mother-in-law; you just give whether 
someone asks or not.  Everyone have a blessed holiday and don't 
forget to be thankful for all of the loved ones around your tables...

--Barb

> Sheryll, off to trudge through ankle deep slush (and
> no, water-resitant boots are not waterproof :)), but
> still thoroughly enjoying the holiday
> 
> =====
> "We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, 
> sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other 
> through the bad times."
>  blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26





From pkerr06 at attglobal.net  Tue Dec 25 05:21:52 2001
From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (bluesox4113)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 05:21:52 -0000
Subject: Bright holiday blessings
Message-ID: <a092dg+m829@eGroups.com>

To all of you around the world, on all the Harry Potter lists, who 
have been such a source of creativity, friendship, thoughtful wisdom, 
and general merriment, my family and I send out our seasons
greetings: 

Blessed Yule, Happy Hanukkah, Merry Christmas, Happy Kwanzaa, and 
Happy New Year (and any other holiday I missed).  

I raise here a glass of holiday cheer in a toast, both general and 
sentimental: 

If my wish had the magical power to reflect back to you only a
smidgen of the brightness, joy, and pleasure that you have brought 
into my life this past year, then the coming year will shine brightly 
indeed, enough to light the darkest of days.  Happy holidays to you 
all, my very dear friends.

Cheers,

Peg Kerr
 
 




From keegan at mcn.org  Tue Dec 25 20:40:20 2001
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 12:40:20 -0800
Subject: A very Harry Christmas
In-Reply-To: <a082iv+88c9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20011225123448.00a0b640@mail.mcn.org>

'Fess up!  How many Potter gifts did you get?  My sweetheart, understanding 
full well the obsession complex, gifted me a very spiffy address book, the 
postcard book, and the boxed UK set so I can finally read the differences 
for myself.  In response, almost all of his gifts were LotR related so both 
of us are wallowing in our respective obsessions.

Hope your holidays are warm and loving,

Catherine in California



From Zorb17 at aol.com  Tue Dec 25 21:04:04 2001
From: Zorb17 at aol.com (Zorb17 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 16:04:04 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] A very Harry Christmas
Message-ID: <8.1eb0f357.295a43c4@aol.com>

I got three HP items: the Diagon Alley Chapter game, the Quidditch card game, 
and the Casting Stones starter set (not quite sure what that is yet).  I 
would have rather gotten my own set of the books or the Legos, but I'm still 
happy.  Oh, and then there were the things my sisters got labeled from He Who 
Must Not Be Named and Sauron.  Hmm...


Zorb


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Dec 25 21:15:12 2001
From: mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk (Martin Hooper)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 21:15:12 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] A very Harry Christmas
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20011225123448.00a0b640@mail.mcn.org>
References: <a082iv+88c9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011225211448.009f9400@pop.freeserve.net>

At 20:40 25/12/01, you wrote:
>'Fess up!  How many Potter gifts did you get?

I only got the middle two books to complete the collection so far...


Martin Hooper
AIM:martinjh99 ICQ: 43933602


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Dec 25 21:26:39 2001
From: mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk (Martin Hooper)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 21:26:39 +0000
Subject: Fiction Alley Author Recommendations
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011225212521.009e8d60@pop.freeserve.net>

Anyone got any good authors/stories to recommend on Fiction Alley??

General book like stories are fine, Slash is right out!

TIA

Martin Hooper
AIM:martinjh99 ICQ: 43933602


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From farris5 at swbell.net  Tue Dec 25 22:57:49 2001
From: farris5 at swbell.net (Russ & Wanda)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 16:57:49 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] A very Harry Christmas
References: <4.2.0.58.20011225123448.00a0b640@mail.mcn.org>
Message-ID: <000c01c18d97$93879940$2e767b40@hppav>

I got a Harry Potter cookie tin, bookmark, fridge magnet & Bertie Botts Beans. My oldest daughter got a ton of HP stuff! 
Merry Christmas, Wanda
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Catherine Keegan 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 2:40 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] A very Harry Christmas


  'Fess up!  How many Potter gifts did you get?  My sweetheart, understanding 
  full well the obsession complex, gifted me a very spiffy address book, the 
  postcard book, and the boxed UK set so I can finally read the differences 
  for myself.  In response, almost all of his gifts were LotR related so both 
  of us are wallowing in our respective obsessions.

  Hope your holidays are warm and loving,

  Catherine in California

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From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 25 23:22:56 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 23:22:56 -0000
Subject: A very Harry Christmas
In-Reply-To: <000c01c18d97$93879940$2e767b40@hppav>
Message-ID: <a0b1og+8nee@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Russ & Wanda <farris5 at s...> wrote:
> I got a Harry Potter cookie tin, bookmark, fridge magnet & Bertie 
Botts Beans. My oldest daughter got a ton of HP stuff! 
> Merry Christmas, Wanda
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Catherine Keegan 
>   'Fess up!  How many Potter gifts did you get? 

My favorite gift came not from my husband or kids (yes, I do love my 
huge book on the architecture of Robert Venturi and Denise Scott 
Brown, my DVDs of my favorite movies--Jean de Florette and Manon of 
the Spring--and the beautiful necklace my husband gave me) but from 
my fic discussion list.  It was a giant (about 4x6') banner or 
poster (depending who you talk to) acquired by Chris Dickson at the 
Scottish premiere of the Harry Potter movie!  He and my husband 
corresponded by email, conspiring to send it to me, but Chris D. 
says it's from the whole list.  I've never been so shocked!  It was 
very touching, and a great piece to hang in the hall outside my 
study, so I can see it every time I'm going upstairs to write....

--Barb

Get Psyched Out!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP_Psych
http://schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb
 
 




From Calypso8604 at aol.com  Tue Dec 25 23:26:46 2001
From: Calypso8604 at aol.com (Calypso8604 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 18:26:46 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] A very Harry Christmas
Message-ID: <13d.6c51fe2.295a6536@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/25/2001 3:41:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
keegan at mcn.org writes:


> How many Potter gifts did you get?  


None! ^_^...I got a couple shirts and a book for Christmas.

I bought my sister a strange gift. She's three years old and I got her a 
little plastic tiara/crown thing....And a little pinik football. ^_^ 

Calypso


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Wed Dec 26 00:57:50 2001
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 00:57:50 -0000
Subject: A very Harry Christmas
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20011225123448.00a0b640@mail.mcn.org>
Message-ID: <a0b7ae+tv17@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Catherine Keegan <keegan at m...> wrote:
> 'Fess up!  How many Potter gifts did you get? 

My niece and I are the family's "Harry Potter geeks" and fortunately for our 
buedgets, we think most of the associated knicknacks are ugly beyond belief.  So 
I got her nothing HP (though my young-teen kids, who are also fans, got a HP 
game that's a model of Hogwarts).  BUT niece found for me a set of "ornaments" 
that includes little medallions, les than an inch across, for each of the 4 houses' 
crests and a larger Hogwarts one.  She commented to me that they might make 
good earrings, LOL.  

Other niece (the fellow-geek's sister) is so oblivious, she asked why HP had 4 
houses.




From john at walton.vu  Wed Dec 26 01:19:45 2001
From: john at walton.vu (John Walton)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 20:19:45 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: A very Harry Christmas
In-Reply-To: <a0b7ae+tv17@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B84E8FE1.3080%john@walton.vu>

Well, Ashley gave me a Gryffindor scarf (which I have been wearing
everywhere), and Heidi/Cassie gave me an Oliver bear which used to have a
recording of the Movie Wood, but unfortunately the voice thing broke so I
had to use my best Scottish accent to make him say "**** me now, Percy!".
::massive evil grin:: Heidi/Cassie also got me a hook/mantelpiece ornament
saying "Ho" on it. I'm assured that others have got the other two from the
"Ho Ho Ho" series.

In return, I got Ashley a Ken dressed as Harry, and Cassie a Ken dressed as
Slut!Draco.

--John

________________________________

John Walton -- john at walton.vu

Youth and skill are no match for experience and treachery.
________________________________




From dracos_boyfriend at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Dec 26 09:35:20 2001
From: dracos_boyfriend at yahoo.co.uk (dracos_boyfriend)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 09:35:20 -0000
Subject: A very Harry Christmas
In-Reply-To: <B84E8FE1.3080%john@walton.vu>
Message-ID: <a0c5ko+ocgo@eGroups.com>

John ... "Well, Ashley gave me a Gryffindor scarf (which I have been 
wearing everywhere)" ...

Hmm, one senses a pattern emerging, there.  I'm absolutely chuffed 
with mine, and it's barely been off my neck in the last day - and as 
we've got a cold spell coming on - I have an excuse to wear it some 
more - I was wearing it when we went up to Hampton Court yesterday 
afternoon - and at least two kids gawped ;)  I also got a cuddly 
Hedwig, so we are now going to find someone with a camcorder and 
recreate the courtyard scene from the movie, and in my stocking, a 
pen set and a box of Every Flavour Beans.  Of course, surpassing that 
was a copy of the Lord of the Rings soundtrack.  I is right set up 
wi' me pressies :D

Hope you all had a really special day yesterday.

Al




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Dec 26 10:33:17 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 10:33:17 -0000
Subject: A very Harry Christmas
In-Reply-To: <a0c5ko+ocgo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0c91d+l2ig@eGroups.com>

You folks have been doing well :)  The only HP item I got (so 
far...some gifts still have to arrive) is an HP mug containing a 
sachet of hot chocolate granules with Crunchie topping!  I shall be 
enjoying that sometime later today.  I gave several friends the 
smaller Lego sets, and treated myself to the Lego Hogwarts.  A few 
months ago DH and I had a blazing row, so I comforted myself with 
some internet shopping :)  So now I must find an evening to put 
Hogwarts together, preferably with the help of some friends (DH won't 
have anything to do with HP) and a bottle or two of plonk.  Once 
completed it will take pride of place on the piano once I've cleared 
all the other crap off it.

Sadly I didn't get what I *really* needed for Christmas...a maid!!

Ah, well...

Cheers!

Mary Ann
(who also wouldn't have minded a personal masseuse named Sven or some 
such in her stocking)




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 26 12:22:47 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 07:22:47 -0500
Subject: Happy birthday to Madhuri!
Message-ID: <F204qbC8wSA1XvpFVjC00001c6d@hotmail.com>

It's Madhuri's birthday today!  We all know what a December 26 birthday must 
be like--everyone's celebrated-out from Christmas and you're lucky if you 
get so much as a Harry Potter toothbrush.  So here's an extra-special hope 
for a magical day to Madhuri (madhuri567 at yahoo.com).  Make a wish!

Cheers,
Amy

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 26 12:39:24 2001
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 04:39:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy birthday to Madhuri!
In-Reply-To: <F204qbC8wSA1XvpFVjC00001c6d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20011226123924.33828.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>

Happy Birthday Madhuri!

Hope it's completely magical and filled with much joy.

Sheryll, raising her mug in a toast (hey, it's coffee,
it's only 7:30 am)


=====
"We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times."
 blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Wed Dec 26 13:16:59 2001
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 13:16:59 -0000
Subject: A very Harry Christmas
In-Reply-To: <a0c5ko+ocgo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0cikb+21jg@eGroups.com>

?<??FGU-OTChatter at y..., "dracos_boyfriend" <dracos_boyfriend at y...> wrote:=

> John ... "Well, Ashley gave me a Gryffindor scarf (which I have been 
> wearing everywhere)" ...
> 
> Hmm, one senses a pattern emerging, there.  I'm absolutely chuffed 
> with mine, and it's barely been off my neck in the last day. . .   
> I also got a cuddly 
> Hedwig, so we are now going to find someone with a camcorder and 
> recreate the courtyard scene from the movie

OK, OK -- Al wins the "HP geek" award.

I forgot to mention that my mom found me a whole box of chocolate frogs.  W=
ell, 
they're not official HP frogs, but some sort of truffles of frogs, and one =
on the 
cover also has a little prince-type crown on.  Hmmm, she also gave me a tre=
e 
ornament that is a frog with a prince-type crown on, and I thought that was=
 in 
recognition of my affection for Kermit, but now I'm suspecting that this is=
 a 
commentary on my single-ness . . . 




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 26 13:25:16 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 05:25:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy birthday to Madhuri!
In-Reply-To: <20011226123924.33828.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20011226132516.86206.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com>

Same here! Have fun today! Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy!
We toast you with hot chocolate and tea! May you get
your Birthday wish!

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Very
Merry Band of Muggles 100%

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From taboulica at yahoo.com.au  Wed Dec 26 13:45:35 2001
From: taboulica at yahoo.com.au (=?iso-8859-1?q?Tabouli?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 00:45:35 +1100 (EST)
Subject: Fresh from LOTR greeting
In-Reply-To: <9vut4j+k08n@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20011226134535.27890.qmail@web20401.mail.yahoo.com>

 Brief message from a Tabouli fresh from the cinema. 
Yes, after a mere week of grizzling this time, Lord of
the Rings has rung its way to Australian shores.  I
can only assume this sprang from a feeling of
Antipodean kinship...

Haven't quite got my head around it yet, but I'll be
home tomorrow evening to comment on the cinematic work
at length (Bereft of Bombadil tho' it be).  See you
then, and I hope your seasonal festivities were
suitably seasoned and festive...

Tabouli.


http://my.yahoo.com.au - My Yahoo!
- It's My Yahoo! Get your own!



From jestana at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 26 15:52:52 2001
From: jestana at yahoo.com (Jestana Silvercoat)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 07:52:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A very Harry Christmas & Newbie introducing herself.
In-Reply-To: <1009360754.355.44532.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20011226155252.80212.qmail@web20901.mail.yahoo.com>

> 'Fess up!  How many Potter gifts did you get?

Hi, this is my first post to this list. I go by
Jestana and I live in Calfornia. I've been a fan of
Harry Potter since *thinks* June. I've written a
couple fics, but that's beside the point. I only
received one Harry Potter gift: the Quidditch Through
The Ages and Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them
boxed set from my brother, a fellow Potter-fan. He
also likes Lord of The Rings, so I got him the trilogy
all in one book. Anyway, I hope everyone had a Merry
Christmas/Holiday/Whatever.

Jestana.

=====
======

-Visit my site: http://www.angelfire.com/musicals/thespia/index.html

-"Whoever said an angel had to have wings?"

-"Glory to God in the highest! Peace on earth, good will toward men."

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From pkerr06 at attglobal.net  Wed Dec 26 16:25:05 2001
From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (bluesox4113)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 16:25:05 -0000
Subject: A very Harry Christmas
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20011225123448.00a0b640@mail.mcn.org>
Message-ID: <a0ctl1+1o2f@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Catherine Keegan <keegan at m...> wrote:
> 'Fess up!  How many Potter gifts did you get?  

My daughters got the big haul, so I'm lived out my obsession only 
vicariously this Christmas.  They both got Harry Potter sheets
(looked 
so cute sleeping in them this morning) and the Trivia Game, and the 
oldest got Norbert and a Harry Potter puzzle, and the youngest got 
Hedwig.  Not even a chocolate frog for me, sniff.

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., John Walton <john at w...> wrote:
> Well, Ashley gave me a Gryffindor scarf (which I have been wearing
> everywhere), 

OOOO, I WANT one.  Was it handmade, or can you buy it?

>and Heidi/Cassie gave me an Oliver bear which used to have a 
>recording of the Movie Wood, but unfortunately the voice thing broke 
>so I had to use my best Scottish accent to make him say "**** me
now, 
>Percy!".

This made me crack up.  Wish I could hear it.

>In return, I got Ashley a Ken dressed as Harry, and Cassie a Ken 
>dressed as Slut!Draco.
> 
> --John

I'd love to see these, too.  Could you post pictures maybe?

Cheers,

Peg




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 26 17:26:52 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 17:26:52 -0000
Subject: Happy birthday to Madhuri!
In-Reply-To: <20011226132516.86206.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a0d18s+a95g@eGroups.com>

A very happy birthday, Madhuri!  I hope you get some cool HP things 
from your loved ones!

--Barb





From heidit at netbox.com  Wed Dec 26 18:00:43 2001
From: heidit at netbox.com (heidi tandy)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 10:00:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: A very Harry Christmas
In-Reply-To: <a0ctl1+1o2f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20011226180043.68874.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com>

> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Catherine Keegan
> <keegan at m...> wrote:
> > 'Fess up!  How many Potter gifts did you get?  
> 

Canon-based gifts:
a Snape and Harry ornament
Invisibility Cloak!Harry
Rememberall!Draco
The book 2002 day by day calendar
ELOISE lipstick (because I want eloise midgen to be a
more important character)
Lavender eau d'toilette 

Fanfic- and fanon-based gifts
SNITCH lipgloss (inspired by Al's SNITCH fanfic)
Fire & Ice nail polish (inspired by the Draco/Ginny
ship)
Gin & Tonic scented perfume (inspired by the Tom
Riddle/Ginny Weasley SHIPpers in FictionAlley Park)
Ducky socks (inspired by Penumbri's fic, and given
further prominence in Cassandra Claire's Draco
Sinister 14)
A silver & gold hair ribbon (inspired by the
draco/harry SHIP)

I have some very creative friends :)

My Harry got:
The lego train set
The lego "Platform 9 3/4"
A plush hedwig doll
A broomstick
Harry on a broomstick
The colorforms set

I gave Ashley a co-ed naked quidditch messenger bag,
Simon a Hedwig wall decal, and you already heard what
Cassie & I got for John. Who deleted it. Ninny.

I got other HP-related gifts as well, but I can't tell
about them, because they haven't been received yet, so
we'll have to wait for Al to show up and brag :)


heidi
http://www.fictionalley.org

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From firefightermichelle at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 26 18:17:22 2001
From: firefightermichelle at yahoo.com (firefightermichelle)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 18:17:22 -0000
Subject: A very Harry Christmas (and an obession update!)
In-Reply-To: <20011226180043.68874.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a0d47i+5qi7@eGroups.com>

I got just the wall calendar, but haven't gotten the pressies from my 
ex-roomie, so there may be more :)  

I gave someone their first HP item, a baseball cap, and everything I 
gave eeryone else was wrapped in HP wrapping paper! :)  YAH!!!

My best friend Ryan has recently discovered the wonderful world of 
all things HP ... He started by watching the movie, then decided to 
read the books ... he's almost done with PoA and can't wait for GoF.  
And to make it even better, he buys everything HP he sees ... well, 
not everything, he hasn't got THAT much money, but has got quite the 
collection going.  :)

Oh, and I have gotten at least 3 fireifghters in my department 
addicted ... in fact, I had one of them call before she came into 
work to see if I had PoA on me, because she had finished with CoS and 
needed to keep reading :)

A very happy CHristmas, well, Boxing Day to you all ...

Michelle :) <---who would love it if someone told her where to find a 
Gryffindor scarf ... even a clever knock-off would do :) And don't 
tell me to knit one, 'cause the last time I knittd anything was 20 
years ago :)




From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Wed Dec 26 18:31:01 2001
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 18:31:01 -0000
Subject: A very Harry Christmas (and an obession update!)
In-Reply-To: <a0d47i+5qi7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0d515+d4dm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "firefightermichelle" <firefightermichelle at y...> 
wrote:

> Michelle :) <---who would love it if someone told her where to find a 
> Gryffindor scarf ... even a clever knock-off would do :) And don't 
> tell me to knit one, 'cause the last time I knittd anything was 20 
> years ago :)

There are plenty of good-looking ones on eBay.




From dracos_boyfriend at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Dec 26 20:56:24 2001
From: dracos_boyfriend at yahoo.co.uk (dracos_boyfriend)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 20:56:24 -0000
Subject: Happy birthday to Madhuri!
In-Reply-To: <F204qbC8wSA1XvpFVjC00001c6d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <a0ddho+d6mi@eGroups.com>

Madhuri,

Your thoughtful reviews on Fiction Alley have brought me much 
pleasure, and it's been great talking to you on your (rare) 
appearances in Sunday chat.  Hope your day (though it be long over) 
went well.  Rock on, babe!

Al




From taradiane at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 27 00:47:12 2001
From: taradiane at yahoo.com (Tara)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 16:47:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Xmas gifts
Message-ID: <20011227004712.5258.qmail@web11501.mail.yahoo.com>

> Message: 1
>    Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 12:40:20 -0800
>    From: Catherine Keegan <keegan at mcn.org>
> Subject: A very Harry Christmas
> 
> 'Fess up!  How many Potter gifts did you get? 

Tons!  Not only did I get tons of Potter gifts,
but my mother apparently told my family to
address the FROM line in a particularly special
way.  I got gifts this year from Harry, Ron,
Hermione, Snape (yeah, right), Dumbledore, and
Draco.  What, no Hagrid?  I thought we were
friends....

Uh.....okay :-)

My stash this year rivaled my toddler neice's. 
Ah, it's good to be a kid again....

Tara

=====
@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@
"...people meeting in secret all over the world 
were holding up their glasses and saying in hushed 
voices:" To Harry Potter - the boy who lived!"

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From catlady at wicca.net  Thu Dec 27 05:19:42 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 05:19:42 -0000
Subject: Happy birthday to Madhuri!
In-Reply-To: <F204qbC8wSA1XvpFVjC00001c6d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <a0eb1e+lpsl@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:

> It's Madhuri's birthday today!  

Happy Birthday to Madhuri, even if the only place it's still December 
26 is here in Pacific Time.

> We all know what a December 26 birthday must be like--everyone's 
> celebrated-out from Christmas and you're lucky if you get so much
> as a Harry Potter toothbrush. 

Here's hoping that the Christmas Baby situation isn't as bad in India 
as in USA.




From madhuri567 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 27 08:16:42 2001
From: madhuri567 at yahoo.com (madhuri567)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 08:16:42 -0000
Subject: Happy birthday to Madhuri!
In-Reply-To: <F204qbC8wSA1XvpFVjC00001c6d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <a0elda+o6ed@eGroups.com>

Thank you so much for all the birthday greetings! I did have a 
wonderful birthday, and I hope that everyone had an even more 
wonderful Christmas and Boxing Day.

:)
Madhuri




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Dec 27 10:49:07 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 10:49:07 -0000
Subject: Happy birthday to Madhuri!
In-Reply-To: <20011226123924.33828.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a0eub3+6afh@eGroups.com>

I hope you had a good birthday yesterday!  I turned off my computer 
early yesterday so I didn't catch your birthday announcement on the 
proper day...sorry about that.  I hope the HP fairy was good to you 
and got you some nice goodies.  I'll drink a toast to you later today 
as it's not 11:00 am yet!

Cheers!

Mary Ann :)




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Thu Dec 27 11:14:20 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 22:14:20 +1100
Subject: Ring Ring...  musings on LOTR
Message-ID: <000c01c18ec7$b953d680$542bdccb@price>

Ah!  Back to my delightfully squalid flat once more, having seen the famed LOTR last night (opening night in Australia, sigh.  Is there some good reason behind these staggered international release dates lark??)

Well (and SPOILER WARNING, strong for those who haven't seen the film, mild for those who haven't read the book).

Some films I walk out of with a definite opinion, good or bad, some films I walk out of with my mind a blur of no concrete opinion.  FOTR-LOTR was of the latter category.  This tends to happen for me a lot more when I'm watching a film of a book I have read: I get too fixated on looking at how the film-maker has interpreted the book to come up with an assessment of the film as a film.  I take the film to pieces, weigh the set, the actors, the script, the soundtrack in my hands and muse on each, instead of being able to comment on it as a whole.  I also gather a little collection of musings on aspects that really made an impression on me.

One such thing was PJ's depiction of the power of the Ring, which I thought was interesting.  He's taking the 'drug of addiction' angle, a good one to use in a film where the struggles of the Ringbearers need to be depicted visually.  A friend of mine once commented that by the end Frodo is a washed out old junkie, and I thought this quite an inspired analogy... Bilbo kicks the habit but with difficulty; Gollum, a much longer-term user, is ruled by his cravings until the end of his days; the Nazgul are slaves to their addiction, and so on.  On-screen we therefore have classic withdrawal symptoms - Frodo breaking out in a sweat, wracked by the desire to put on the Ring, even though his rational mind knows it only makes him more vulnerable, Frodo being carted off to Rivendell blank-eyed and stiff and staring at a world no-one else can see (all those 60s flower children sigh reminiscently?).  Hmm.

Wasn't as sure about the hallucinatory wraithworld Frodo enters when he puts on the Ring (where he evidently cannot see where he is going etc.etc.), though.  Effective, but um, doesn't that make the Ring more or less useless as a tool of concealment?  How did Bilbo manage to sneak back into Bag End after his disappearance if all he could see was wraithish shapes and the Eye?  Kind of scuppers the idea of filming The Hobbit (speaking of which, I LOONishly noted that invisible Bilbo had no shadow when he snuck home... what of the famous line "may your shadow never grow less"?).  Wouldn't wraithified but still functional have done the job?

As for the script, I agree wholeheartedly with those who chimed in with their jealous whinges.  How is it that HP, which actually *is* funny, got so much of the original humour chopped out, whereas LOTR, a solemn tome if ever there was, managed to slip in quite a few laughs (mostly at Pippin)?  Huh.  Yup, sad to say, I thought LOTR's script was far superior to HP's, aside from the silly "Let's hunt some orc" Hollywood touch (millimetres away from "Let's kick some butt"... in Tolkien?  Ick.)  Though I can't help thinking someone who'd never read the book might have been struggling to figure out and remember all the characters' names.  O well.

(Tabouli resists the temptation to dwell darkly on the omission of Tom Bombadil, and, indeed, the entire Old Forest sequence.  Hmph)

Acting?  Y'know, I could feel a few parallels between the HP and LOTR leads.  Smooth, angelic, blue-eyed boyish faces... I like Elijah's performance, though I sometimes thought he was almost *too* young and pretty for the role (sacrilege, I hear the drooling fans cry?)... he certainly had this almost regal bearing about him, calm and noble and wise, whereas the other hobbits were comically rough around the edges.  Which is, I suppose, exactly what Tolkien meant, though for me reading the books the regal yet kindly air wasn't that apparent until after Book I, once he teams up with the kowtowing Sam and the snivelling Gollum.  Was fairly indifferent to both the female cameos... I'm not a huge Liv fan.  I though Boromir and Gimli were well done, though I agree that the initial distrust of Aragorn warranted a bit more time, and could have done without the one man wins against 50,000 orcs by sheer skill and courage battle scenes (come on, Peter, this is Rings, not Rambo).  As one of the people I saw it with commented, in the book you get a bit of lull between the chases and attacks and daring escapes, whereas the movie hammers them into you one after the other without respite (I say chop the gratuitous cave troll scene and Bring Back Bombadil, myself)... I'm sure Peter loves dem battle scenes and does 'em well, but I personally would have preferred a touch less of 'em.  Same with the special effects when Galadriel and Bilbo saw the Ring again... I wouldn't have gone so far, just some creepy camera angles and effects with acting would have done me.  Plenty of time for special effects later.

Visually stunning, of course.  The sets... phew.  Impressive.  They didn't hold back, eh?  I thought Hobbiton was particularly charming, and liked Rivendell, though I wasn't into Lothlorien - too different from what I'd imagined (too *artificial*, somehow... I wanted something lighter, more leafy and open-air, fairy-woods, pergolas, airy bridges over singing streams).  Loved the long, droopy, silky-white Saruman hairstyle.  Garlands for the stylist.  I also mused that the curlers must have been out in force for all the extras in the Hobbiton scenes!  I might chuck a lei around the neck of the costume designer too... lovely work.

I was wary about the prospective monsters, having been *revolted* by 'Meet the Feebles' (yiicccch!  Blee!), but I didn't mind the Orcs (I see the Tolkien troll came from the same casting agency as the Potter troll).  The Balrog looked a bit origami for a demon to me.  One misgiving: they haven't chopped the Gollum as mutant hobbit sub-plot, have they?  Surely not!  He'd better have done a good job on Treebeard...

Insofar as I noticed the soundtrack, I liked it, which probably means that it accompanied the film comfortably without dominating it.  As the final credits were rolling, I finally realised why the echoey singing was ringing bells... Enya, of course, how did I not realise this?

So there we have it.  All you rabid LOTR film lovers who see finding any fault with it as blasphemy, don't think I'm not ready for you...

Tabouli (discreetly fingering the mithril vest under her shirt).


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 27 13:10:59 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 13:10:59 -0000
Subject: Rowling show on BBC America?
Message-ID: <a0f6l3+10mfe@eGroups.com>

If anyone knows for a fact that the show being broadcast on the BBC 
this evening is going to be shown on BBC America, please post the info 
here.  I've discovered that I do get BBCA, but I don't have a schedule 
so all I can do is check the TV every 12 hours or so . . .

Thanks,
Amy




From alyeskakc at netzero.net  Thu Dec 27 13:22:12 2001
From: alyeskakc at netzero.net (alyeskakc)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 13:22:12 -0000
Subject: Rowling show on BBC America?
In-Reply-To: <a0f6l3+10mfe@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0f7a4+qdih@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "lupinesque" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> If anyone knows for a fact that the show being broadcast on the BBC 
> this evening is going to be shown on BBC America, please post the 
info 
> here.  I've discovered that I do get BBCA, but I don't have a 
schedule 
> so all I can do is check the TV every 12 hours or so . . .
> 
> Thanks,
> Amy

Amy ,

Here's the link to BBC America page for the schedule. I didn't see 
anything about JKR. http://bbcamerica.com/DailySchedule.jsp

Cheers,
Kristin





From dai_evans at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 27 17:05:21 2001
From: dai_evans at yahoo.com (dai_evans)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 17:05:21 -0000
Subject: Rowling show on BBC America?
In-Reply-To: <a0f6l3+10mfe@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0fkch+338a@eGroups.com>

It's on BBC1 tomorrow (friday) evening at 19:00 GMT here in the UK.
I have a cunning TV card device thingee in my computer which allows 
me to broadcast TV over the internet. Unfortunately my 56K modem will 
most likely only allow audio transmission at an understandable rate, 
so if anyone is interested and knows a suitable chatroom with voice 
capabilities (the usual sunday room doesn't allow it), then reply to 
this and we'll sort something out.


Dai

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "lupinesque" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> If anyone knows for a fact that the show being broadcast on the BBC 
> this evening is going to be shown on BBC America, please post the 
info 
> here.  I've discovered that I do get BBCA, but I don't have a 
schedule 
> so all I can do is check the TV every 12 hours or so . . .




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 27 20:38:01 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 20:38:01 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, Jen!
Message-ID: <a0g0r9+mthk@eGroups.com>

It has come to the attention of the Birthday Elf that Jen Faulkner, 
our resident Latin scholar, slashfic expert, and List Elf (how do you 
say "elf" in Latin?), celebrated her birthday on December 23.  I 
hereby raise a belated non-alcoholic butterbeer in your honor, Jen!

jfaulkne at sas.upenn.edu

Amy




From alyeskakc at netzero.net  Fri Dec 28 00:38:56 2001
From: alyeskakc at netzero.net (alyeskakc)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 00:38:56 -0000
Subject: Happy birthday 
In-Reply-To: <a0eb1e+lpsl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0gev0+oa1l@eGroups.com>

Happy belated birthday to Madhuri and Jen.  I raise a glass of 
butterbeer in your honor. Hope both your birthdays were wonderful and 
full of surprises.

Cheers,
Kristin




From john at walton.vu  Fri Dec 28 02:17:08 2001
From: john at walton.vu (John Walton)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 21:17:08 -0500
Subject: Filk: "Orlando": (LOTR, slashy, R-rated)
Message-ID: <B8514053.321E%john@walton.vu>

WARNING FOR THE FAINT-HEARTED: This is somewhat crude and lewd and smutty.
If that is going to Warp Your Mind and Turn You To Satan, you might want to
go burn a couple more Harry Potter books and stop reading now.



Still here? ::wink:: Excellent. Enjoy.



"Orlando" (to the tune of ABBA's "Fernando")
 
Enter VIGGO MORTENSEN and ORLANDO BLOOM, LEFT, indulging in heavy petting.
To RIGHT are IAN MCKELLEN and ELIJAH WOOD, discussing GANDALF's staff.
VIGGO (sings):

Can you hear the drums Orlando?
Coming from the deepest darkest demon pit in Moria.
In the Balrog's light Orlando
You were shooting a few Goblins
With your manly Elvish bow.
I could hear the distant drums
And sounds of Goblin hordes were coming from afar

They were closer now, Orlando
Every hour every minute seemed to last eternally
You are such a stud, Orlando.
You are young and full of...life
You're such a hunky Elvish guy
And when I saw your bow
Its length and springiness, it almost made me cry

There were arrows in the air that night
My luck looked bright, Orlando
Mucho shagging between you and me
Homosexually, Orlando.
There's another arrow you should loose
(I'm getting wet).
If you shagged the Fellowship again,
You should, my friend, Orlando
Damn, you'll have to shag them all again,
Those hot young men, Orlando

ORLANDO (sings):

Yes, you're right, my name's Orlando
And I want to see my Elvish bow a-quivering in your hand
Oh, my darling, darling Viggo,
Do you still recall the glorious night
We spent in Lothlorien
I can see how very much
You want to hold my bow and twang my strings again

There was shagging under trees that night
You called outright, "Orlando!"
I was shagging you, then you shagged me
I used my Elvish man-bow
Though we never thought Elijah could
He then joined in,
Notwithstanding hairy Hobbit frog,
And Gondor knob, and Elf bow.

ORLANDO goes down on ELIJAH while VIGGO goes down on IAN, who sings:

There was shagging between you and him,
Then I joined in, Orlando,
With my big long manly wizard staff
You didn't laugh, Orlando.
I was so surprised you fit it in
(it isn't thin!)
I shall have to shag you all again,
Excepting Hobbit Frodo...

And since you want to shag us all again
You can, my friend, Orlando
Then we want to shag you yet again
So bend, my friend, Orlando...

FADE TO BLACK AS THE ACTION GETS HOTTER THAN A BALROG


________________________________

John Walton -- john at walton.vu

Percy smiled back, reminding himself not to let his face show exactly how
gorgeous he found Oliver.  *Aloof, unavailable, Head Boy. Aloof, unavailable
Head Boy. With girlfriend.*

>From Keeper's Secrets, Chapter 2, by Wood's Keeper
http://www.astronomytower.org/cgi-bin/links/jump.cgi?ID=301
________________________________




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 28 03:03:07 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 19:03:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Birthday, Jen! 
Message-ID: <20011228030307.46362.qmail@web13709.mail.yahoo.com>

Happy Belated Birthday to Jen on December 23!
Hope you got your Birthday wishes! All of us here in
Revere, Massachusetts in the Mallett household toast
you with a Birthday toast of Apple Cider, fresh of 
course and won't get us drunk! But we want to hope you
all the best!

Wanda the Witch of Revere,Massachusetts and Her Very
Merry Band of Muggles 100%   

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 28 05:30:03 2001
From: dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com (Elizabeth Sager)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 21:30:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A very Harry Christmas
In-Reply-To: <1009360754.355.44532.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20011228053003.22263.qmail@web20409.mail.yahoo.com>

Gifts? For myself? Hm...I got a Harry Potter t-shirt
(X-Large Youth, cannot put it in the dryer otherwise I
shall have no shirt) and the computer game which I am
having SO much fun with. I love it and recommend it
for everyone, unless you're like on of those rabid
Slytherin people who couldn't stand being a Gryffindor
for half a second...and there's no Draco in leather,
which in my opinion is about the only thing that would
make the game better. 

Oliver doll? "**** me Percy!"? Sound perfectly
enamouring :) 

Gryffindor scarves...where can I get one of those? I'm
in want of a scarf, the only one I have is pink *gags
herself to death* 

Hope you all had a Happy Holiday!

Liz

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From nethilia at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 28 06:34:57 2001
From: nethilia at yahoo.com (Tasha--Nethilia)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 22:34:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A report of the past few weeks and  a very Harry Christmas
In-Reply-To: <1009447578.1639.46102.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20011228063457.16425.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>

Well, my life has been sort of a mess since about
December 18th, so here's a quick catchup to explain
why my normal semi-lurking has become even more semi. 

First of all, on the 18th, I got evicted from my
place. The landlords gave me the notice then, in an
e-mail. This wasn't because i owed rent--my rent was
all paid. It was because I owed my roommate money from
bills (not to her parents who coincidentally are the
landlords, but directly to her) and wasn't getting
paid a lot as a temp and so was struggling to pay her
back. (This was also a combination of my mom's car
accident right after Thanksgiving and me not getting
paid overtime cause I was a crappy temp) and so I got
evicted. Not even a 30 day notice, mind--a 13 day
notice. I had to be out by the 31st or they would
change the locks on me. 

This was a major problem, seeing as I had planned to
be out of town from about the 24th through the 7th or
so (first at home with family and then out of town
visiting my boyfriend all the way in Colorado). So I
had to get everything packed and ready to be moved by
the 23rd, else I would be royally screwed. Luckily, my
mother found me dorm space and storage space to hold
all my things, and I can move back into the dorms when
I move back after my Colorado trip. So I'm not
homeless. Just inconvinienced. 

No problem, I tell myself, I can move everything after
work, right? So I spend Wednesday and Thursday night
packing upe everything and get everything but the
bathroom and kitchen done. 

Friday, I head off to work, and two hours into my
shift I'm called to the back. Remember how I said that
I was a temp? Well, all the temps were fired that day,
with the exception of a few. I was not one of the few.
I'm not sure what it was--the recession or the massive
payroll problems, but yah, I got let go from my job.
>< So now I'm jobless and without a place. Gyah. 

Anyways, my mom comes up Saturday with my sisters, and
we get everything moved out, and I get everything done
and situated, and then I go home with my mom. Things
went up after that, though ^.^ My mom took me shopping
where I found spiffy shirts and things at this
Goodwill (always the Goodwill shopper, me). 

Also, I got five HP things for Christmas. Really, it's
four, and if you want to be picky, it's one cause the
others I got myself and have to put together.
Anyways...first of all I went to Walmart with my mom
and we found the HP fabric on sale, droppded from 5
bucks a yard to only 3 and a half. So I got one panel
of Harry and one with the houses on it ^^ 

The second two are a set. While wandering around the
Goodwill my mom and I found two identical red headed
boy Cabbage Patch dolls. My mom (who, I am proud to
say, has converted to the Way of The Boy Who Lived; my
older sister got her to read the books) Grabbed them
and said "Fred and George!" and since I can knit and
the like, I'm going to make Weasley sweaters and make
me a set of Fred and George dolls. 

Third, my grandmother bought everyone in the family
pajamas for Christmas, and for me, she got Harry
Potter pajamas! They're light blue with golden
Snitches and clouds and the HP logo. ^___^ and they
didn't even know that I'm an obsessed Potterite.

So yah, things will get better. I'm not upset about
what happened with my job and place. I can get rehired
in Feb at my job, and my roommate was being eevahl.
Seriously, who tells a person that you can't use the
sponges or the POTS in the house and fusses that you
leave dirty dishes in the sick over the day while
you're working for 8 hours, but leaves her dishes for
about three days while she goes out of town? I
understand the problems with her dad and the like, as
he's been in and out of the hospital, but still. 

Anyways, I'm in Colorado now (got here this morning)
so all's right with the world when you're visiting
your boyfriend till the 7th =D

--Neth

=====
--Nethilia de Lobo--
79% obsessed with Harry Potter
Wand: Dragon Heartstring, Ash, 7 inches
**Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus.**

http://www.geocities.com/spenecial
Spenecial.com. Two girls. One Website. Total Chaos.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Dec 28 09:56:13 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 09:56:13 -0000
Subject: Filk: "Orlando": (LOTR, slashy, R-rated)
In-Reply-To: <B8514053.321E%john@walton.vu>
Message-ID: <a0hfjt+hd0s@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., John Walton <john at w...> wrote:
> WARNING FOR THE FAINT-HEARTED: This is somewhat crude and lewd and 
smutty.
> If that is going to Warp Your Mind and Turn You To Satan, you might 
want to
> go burn a couple more Harry Potter books and stop reading now.
> 
> 
> 
> Still here? ::wink:: Excellent. Enjoy.
> 

<snip stuff that my old convent school didn't have in its curriculum>

:::::snort:::::  I've not yet read the LOTR books or seen the movie, 
John, but now, thanks to you, I won't be able to do either without a 
smirk on my face of which 'ol Reverend Mother would most certainly 
disapprove.  Thanks a lot :)

Mary Ann
(off to lurk in a corner to grow horns and cackle evilly)




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Dec 28 10:08:00 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 10:08:00 -0000
Subject: A report of the past few weeks and  a very Harry Christmas
In-Reply-To: <20011228063457.16425.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a0hga0+ehg6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Tasha--Nethilia <nethilia at y...> wrote:
> Well, my life has been sort of a mess since about
> December 18th, so here's a quick catchup to explain
> why my normal semi-lurking has become even more semi. 
> 
<snip about room-mate from Hell and !?$%! employers> 

Gads, Neth, what a month :(  Thank goodness you were able to sort out 
a new job and place to live so quickly.  What a nightmare.

>While wandering around the Goodwill my mom and I found two identical 
>red headed boy Cabbage Patch dolls. My mom (who, I am proud to
> say, has converted to the Way of The Boy Who Lived; my
> older sister got her to read the books) Grabbed them
> and said "Fred and George!" and since I can knit and
> the like, I'm going to make Weasley sweaters and make
> me a set of Fred and George dolls.

I love this!  My knitting is mediocre at best, but now you have me 
looking out for old Cabbage Patch dolls to work some magic... 


> So yah, things will get better. I'm not upset about
> what happened with my job and place. I can get rehired
> in Feb at my job, and my roommate was being eevahl.

Again, glad to hear it's all working out.  It looks like it was all 
for the best anyway.  Enjoy Colorado, and I'll confidently wish you a 
Happy New Year as it looks to be heading that way anyway :)

Cheers!

Mary Ann :)




From heidit at netbox.com  Fri Dec 28 15:42:44 2001
From: heidit at netbox.com (heiditandy)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:42:44 -0000
Subject: The Best TV Channel Ever
Message-ID: <a0i3tk+agne@eGroups.com>

While those of you in the UK are getting ready for the JKR special on 
the BBC, I went looking for BBC America to see if we were going to 
get it as well. 

In looking, I got distracted. Very distracted. By the best tv channel 
ever.

VH1-Classic

So far this morning, I have seen XTC's Mayor of Simpleton, Roxy 
Music's Avalon, Nik Kershaw's Wouldn't It Be Good, The Fixx's Stand 
or Fall and Cyndi Lauper's True Colors.

I don't want to leave the house. I want to return to the days when 
these videos were all on Mtv, and my cable channel changer was a 
brown box about a foot long and sort of oblong-shaped with about 16 
buttons and a dial on the left hand side, and Mtv was the middle 
setting, three buttons from the left. 

Ah, VH1 Classic. A place where Boys Don't Cry's I Wanna Be A Cowboy 
will live forever. 






From mrhjpotter at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Dec 28 16:36:26 2001
From: mrhjpotter at yahoo.co.uk (mrhjpotter)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 16:36:26 -0000
Subject: Ring Ring...  musings on LOTR
In-Reply-To: <000c01c18ec7$b953d680$542bdccb@price>
Message-ID: <a0i72a+eked@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tabouli" <tabouli at u...> wrote:
> Ah!  Back to my delightfully squalid flat once more, having seen 
the famed LOTR last night (opening night in Australia, sigh.  Is 
there some good reason behind these staggered international release 
dates lark??)
> 
> Some films I walk out of with a definite opinion, good or bad, some 
films I walk out of with my mind a blur of no concrete opinion.  FOTR-
LOTR was of the latter category.  <snip> yadda, yadda, yadda...


I totally agree with you but I must add one thing (I have had death 
threats for saying this!). Gandalfs performance didn't do the book 
version of the great wizard any justice! IMO the film Gandalf could 
do with spending a couple of terms at Hogwarts...during the fight 
scene with Saruman he managed a couple of disarming spells, he 
couldn't do a simple summoning charm to get his staff back (its quite 
documented that spells etc. can be done without a wand, they just 
provide some "focus".) and when poor Frodo was stuck on that 
crumbling staircase he could have done a simple levitation spell just 
like our Hermione!

The man needs time with Flitwick if you please and just so he hasn't 
got to resort to a sword when fighting orcs, some time with Lupin too 
I think!




From alyeskakc at netzero.net  Fri Dec 28 17:04:55 2001
From: alyeskakc at netzero.net (alyeskakc)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 17:04:55 -0000
Subject: The Best TV Channel Ever
In-Reply-To: <a0i3tk+agne@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0i8nn+7aa9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "heiditandy" <heidit at n...> wrote:


> I don't want to leave the house. I want to return to the days when 
> these videos were all on Mtv, and my cable channel changer was a 
> brown box about a foot long and sort of oblong-shaped with about 16 
> buttons and a dial on the left hand side, and Mtv was the middle 
> setting, three buttons from the left. 
> 
> Ah, VH1 Classic. A place where Boys Don't Cry's I Wanna Be A Cowboy 
> will live forever.


OMG! I thought *we* only had those hideous button boxes. Boy that 
brings back high school and college memories. Back when MTV was cool 
and actually played music. Although I have to admit I loved Remote 
Control in College, Sing Along with Colin. Now I will have to see if 
VH1-Classic comes on Dish500, I may have to upgrade so I can get that 
and Speesvision. ::Walks off singing don't drink don't smoke - what 
do you do? you don't drink don't smoke - what do you do? subtle 
innuendos follow there must be something inside::

Cheers,
Kristin







From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Dec 28 17:12:04 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 17:12:04 -0000
Subject: The Best TV Channel Ever
In-Reply-To: <a0i3tk+agne@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0i954+m8iq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "heiditandy" <heidit at n...> wrote:
> 
> VH1-Classic
> 
> So far this morning, I have seen XTC's Mayor of Simpleton, Roxy 
> Music's Avalon, Nik Kershaw's Wouldn't It Be Good, The Fixx's Stand 
> or Fall and Cyndi Lauper's True Colors.
> 
As it happens, we have The Best of Roxy Music on the stereo right 
now.  We only have terrestrial telly in our house, which means we get 
a whopping 5 channels.  Thing is, we simply can't fit digital or 
satellite into the budget right now.  But wow, I'd give anything to 
have Vh1-Classic if those are the videos they play.  Ah, memories of 
teenagehood in Toronto, when Dad refused to get Pay-TV and I could 
listen to MuchMusic, but couldn't see it.  Not much good with videos, 
eh?

Anyway I helped out at my daughter's school disco a few weeks ago 
(Key Stage 1 group), and barely recognized any of the music played.  
The exception was when the DJ played "YMCA" and told all the adults 
(parents and teachers) to do the letter movements, which we did, sad 
buggers that we are.  Beth's still into "Wheels on the Bus" for now, 
but I dread to think what she'll be listening to once she is well and 
truly influenced by her peer group.

Mind you, I inflicted Duran Duran and the like on my folks.  What 
goes around comes around, eh?

Cheers!

Mary Ann
(who spent a great afternoon putting her Hogwarts Lego kit together, 
which now takes pride of place on the piano)




From saitaina at wizzards.net  Fri Dec 28 17:21:35 2001
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 09:21:35 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: The Best TV Channel Ever
References: <a0i954+m8iq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <064501c18fc4$1cb0df00$6b4e28d1@oemcomputer>

This has to be the saddest story regarding this lot.  While I don't get VH1-Classic, I was inflicted with eighties week two weeks ago and suffered (yes suffered) through all of the oldies that MTV used to play.

Now I'm 20 and 11 months old, that means that I was born the same year as MTV.  Yet I knew most of the video's they played.  This is truly sad.  I've been watching MTV since I was old enough to hold my head up and somehow those songs got suck in the back of my brain for later re-call.  

You don't know how weird it is to dance around you apartment singing a song then stopping to realize that the first time you could have heard it was when you were five years old or so.  I must thank my dad for watching nothing else then 'that music channel' while growing up.  

Saitaina
*****
"He shouldn't have done that...that was a bad idea.  I keep a little list of all the people who pat my behind without permission and several of them have died un-natural and un-timely deaths."-Julia, "Designing Women"

"This is what it's all been about. All the hatred and suffering and fighting and dying...over nothing 
more then the colors that can be  found in a child's crayola box."

"Kids Mess you up...you spend the rest of your life yelling at something you don't  understand."




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dai_evans at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 28 17:36:29 2001
From: dai_evans at yahoo.com (dai_evans)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 17:36:29 -0000
Subject: BBC Rowling interview
Message-ID: <a0iait+8rnb@eGroups.com>

Hi

If anyones interested, I'll be boradcasting the audio of the Rowling 
special from BBC1 in the chatroom dai1:1 tonight. The program starts 
at 7pm (gmt), so turn up then if you want to hear it. I would also be 
grateful if people could turn up ealier than that (say 6:30) so that 
I can make sure the technology is working properly before the program 
starts.

To get into dai1:1 enter via Yahoo Instant Messenger (I don't think 
you'll get audio if you use the normal yahoo java thingy), by 
clicking 
Tools 
--> Yahoo! Chat 
--> Join Room...
>From the dialogue box that opens, select 
Cultures and Communities 
--> Issues and Causes
and then select the User Rooms tab and Dai1(1) should be listed 
there. Double click on it, and listen up.

see you there, 

Dai




From keegan at mcn.org  Fri Dec 28 18:45:58 2001
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 10:45:58 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] BBC Rowling interview
In-Reply-To: <a0iait+8rnb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20011228103958.00a66220@mail.mcn.org>

Is it possible to post a transcript of this?  I'm GMT - 8 (I think) and 
I've never dealt with the Yahoo Instant Messanger thang.  Would love to 
read what she has to say.  BBC American still doesn't have a listing for 
this and they may not bother since they mostly show us wonderful sit coms 
and the odd stuff like "Ground Force".  (What an odd show.  I've seen the 
last five minutes a few times while waiting for AbFab or British Men 
Behaving Badly.)

Here's hoping that somewhere there's sunshine.  We haven't seen any in far 
too long

Catherine on the cloudy, rainy Mendocino coast

At 05:36 PM 12/28/01 +0000, Dai wrote:
>If anyone's interested, I'll be boradcasting the audio of the Rowling
>special from BBC1 in the chatroom dai1:1 tonight. The program starts
>at 7pm (gmt), so turn up then if you want to hear it. I would also be
>grateful if people could turn up ealier than that (say 6:30) so that
>I can make sure the technology is working properly before the program
>starts.




From mrhjpotter at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Dec 28 19:05:08 2001
From: mrhjpotter at yahoo.co.uk (mrhjpotter)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 19:05:08 -0000
Subject: BBC Rowling interview
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20011228103958.00a66220@mail.mcn.org>
Message-ID: <a0ifp4+21ao@eGroups.com>

Its on! BTW there was an unexpected special by Animal Hospital 
beforehand. It told of the animals in the 1st and 2nd film!! Lucky I 
got it on tape!


--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Catherine Keegan <keegan at m...> wrote:
> Is it possible to post a transcript of this?  I'm GMT - 8 (I think) 
and 
> I've never dealt with the Yahoo Instant Messanger thang.  Would 
love to 
> read what she has to say.  BBC American still doesn't have a 
listing for 
> this and they may not bother since they mostly show us wonderful 
sit coms 
> and the odd stuff like "Ground Force".  (What an odd show.  I've 
seen the 
> last five minutes a few times while waiting for AbFab or British 
Men 
> Behaving Badly.)
> 
> Here's hoping that somewhere there's sunshine.  We haven't seen any 
in far 
> too long
> 
> Catherine on the cloudy, rainy Mendocino coast
> 
> At 05:36 PM 12/28/01 +0000, Dai wrote:
> >If anyone's interested, I'll be boradcasting the audio of the 
Rowling
> >special from BBC1 in the chatroom dai1:1 tonight. The program 
starts
> >at 7pm (gmt), so turn up then if you want to hear it. I would also 
be
> >grateful if people could turn up ealier than that (say 6:30) so 
that
> >I can make sure the technology is working properly before the 
program
> >starts.




From jdumas at kingwoodcable.com  Fri Dec 28 19:45:19 2001
From: jdumas at kingwoodcable.com (Katze)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 13:45:19 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] BBC Rowling interview
References: <a0iait+8rnb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3C2CCBCF.6E66F712@kingwoodcable.com>

dai_evans wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> If anyones interested, I'll be boradcasting the audio of the Rowling
> special from BBC1 in the chatroom dai1:1 tonight. The program starts
> at 7pm (gmt), so turn up then if you want to hear it. I would also be
> grateful if people could turn up ealier than that (say 6:30) so that
> I can make sure the technology is working properly before the program
> starts.
> 
> To get into dai1:1 enter via Yahoo Instant Messenger (I don't think
> you'll get audio if you use the normal yahoo java thingy), by
> clicking
> Tools
> --> Yahoo! Chat
> --> Join Room...
> >From the dialogue box that opens, select
> Cultures and Communities
> --> Issues and Causes
> and then select the User Rooms tab and Dai1(1) should be listed
> there. Double click on it, and listen up.
> 
> see you there,
> 
> Dai


I tried getting in the room, but it's not listed...so I'll wait for a
transcript.

Take care!
-Kristin



From mrhjpotter at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Dec 28 19:50:28 2001
From: mrhjpotter at yahoo.co.uk (mrhjpotter)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 19:50:28 -0000
Subject: BBC Interview
Message-ID: <a0iie4+k69v@eGroups.com>

Hot off the press!

J K Rowling just stated that there will be AT LEAST one death that 
will be hard to write.......






From mrhjpotter at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Dec 28 20:04:35 2001
From: mrhjpotter at yahoo.co.uk (mrhjpotter)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 20:04:35 -0000
Subject: Interview
Message-ID: <a0ij8j+5s9s@eGroups.com>

Okay, here's a quick overview!

1 ~ JK Rowlings past and how she came from pretty much nothing.

2~ Writing the book (1) Hermione is based on JK Rowling, with Ron 
being based on her best friend.

3~ Increasing fame

4~ Books 2, 3 and 4

5~ Whats to come ~ Deaths, lots more deaths (as stated before, at 
least one hard to write). Final chapter is epilogue. What happened to 
survivors after they leave.

6~ Book 5 ~ Boy/Girl stuff. Harry finds out a lot more about his 
past. Lots lots more.





From jdumas at kingwoodcable.com  Fri Dec 28 20:16:09 2001
From: jdumas at kingwoodcable.com (Katze)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 14:16:09 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Interview
References: <a0ij8j+5s9s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3C2CD309.635AB7D0@kingwoodcable.com>

mrhjpotter wrote:
> 
> Okay, here's a quick overview!
> 
> 1 ~ JK Rowlings past and how she came from pretty much nothing.
> 
> 2~ Writing the book (1) Hermione is based on JK Rowling, with Ron
> being based on her best friend.
> 
> 3~ Increasing fame
> 
> 4~ Books 2, 3 and 4
> 
> 5~ Whats to come ~ Deaths, lots more deaths (as stated before, at
> least one hard to write). Final chapter is epilogue. What happened to
> survivors after they leave.
> 
> 6~ Book 5 ~ Boy/Girl stuff. Harry finds out a lot more about his
> past. Lots lots more.
> 

Were there any new spoilers in the interview?
(Sorry for the one liner...er make that two liner)

-Katze



From mrhjpotter at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Dec 28 20:15:35 2001
From: mrhjpotter at yahoo.co.uk (mrhjpotter)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 20:15:35 -0000
Subject: Interview
In-Reply-To: <3C2CD309.635AB7D0@kingwoodcable.com>
Message-ID: <a0ijt7+gb8p@eGroups.com>

Nothing new...except that I got the feeling that the character(s) who 
are going to be killed are someone key. I'm not sure its one of the 
trio - could be someone like Hagrid or Dumbledore or another Weasley 
or Cho Chang. It was the way she said it!!!!


--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Katze <jdumas at k...> wrote:
> mrhjpotter wrote:
> > 
> > Okay, here's a quick overview!
> > 
> > 1 ~ JK Rowlings past and how she came from pretty much nothing.
> > 
> > 2~ Writing the book (1) Hermione is based on JK Rowling, with Ron
> > being based on her best friend.
> > 
> > 3~ Increasing fame
> > 
> > 4~ Books 2, 3 and 4
> > 
> > 5~ Whats to come ~ Deaths, lots more deaths (as stated before, at
> > least one hard to write). Final chapter is epilogue. What 
happened to
> > survivors after they leave.
> > 
> > 6~ Book 5 ~ Boy/Girl stuff. Harry finds out a lot more about his
> > past. Lots lots more.
> > 
> 
> Were there any new spoilers in the interview?
> (Sorry for the one liner...er make that two liner)
> 
> -Katze




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri Dec 28 22:38:11 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 22:38:11 -0000
Subject: BBC Interview
Message-ID: <a0is8j+s98t@eGroups.com>

Just tried both HP:1 and dai1:1 - nobody there, so not sure what 
you've all discussed already, but:

There was a very brief shot of a leaflet saying 'Parsel Force, A 
rattling good service', with a picture of a snake on it. (In the UK, 
Parcel Force is part of the Royal Mail, or Consignia, as it's now 
called)

We got to see her friend Shaun (Sean?) on whom Ron is partly based.  
She said that Ron resembles him in that he is always there when you 
need him.  In the very short time he got he seemed a very nice bloke, 
and JKR obviously thinks highly of him.

She said Platform 9 3/4 was taken from her memory of Kings X - she 
later discovered it was Euston she was thinking of - anyone going 
that way who can take a pic and upload it?

She had some interesting comments on the finality of death in the 
series and how her own mother died during the writing of the first 
book.

There were also shots of notebooks of early drafts of PS - quite 
legible but not enough time to read.

David




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri Dec 28 23:18:56 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 23:18:56 -0000
Subject: Ground Force (was BBC Rowling interview)
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20011228103958.00a66220@mail.mcn.org>
Message-ID: <a0iul0+ih5b@eGroups.com>

Catherine Keegan wrote:
>  BBC American still doesn't have a listing for 
> this and they may not bother since they mostly show us wonderful 
sit coms 
> and the odd stuff like "Ground Force".  (What an odd show.  I've 
seen the 
> last five minutes a few times while waiting for AbFab or British 
Men 
> Behaving Badly.)
> 
You have to be in the right post-modern, ironic mood for Ground 
Force.  Watch it for the double entendres.  For a short while it had 
a cult following here because Charlie Dimmock doesn't wear a bra.  If 
a female public figure is caught by the press not wearing a bra she 
may well make the front page under a headline such as 'X does a 
Dimmock'.  It happened to William Hague's wife Ffion.

It irritates real gardeners because, in order to achieve an overnight 
makeover, you have to overplant the garden, which is bad for its long 
term look.

I find it hard to believe that the JKR interview won't be shown.  
Perhaps the Beeb have sold it to another network?

David




From crabtree at ktc.com  Sat Dec 29 02:45:15 2001
From: crabtree at ktc.com (professorphlash)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 02:45:15 -0000
Subject: A very Harry Christmas
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20011225123448.00a0b640@mail.mcn.org>
Message-ID: <a0janr+92bk@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Catherine Keegan <keegan at m...> wrote:
> 'Fess up!  How many Potter gifts did you get?  



I have been out of town with my mom who doesn't have a computer, so I 
am a bit out of touch. This has been a very Harry Christmas indeed for 
me.  My husband gave me two Fossil watches: one simple wrist watch 
with a little golden snitch in the middle that ticks off the seconds 
as it rotates and best of all a limited edition Albus Dumbledore 
pocket watch!!! The pocket watch has 12 planets and 10 hands, I think. 
I was on cloud nine until I realized that it wasn't working! *weeping* 
It has a guarentee so I guess I will have to send it off to the 
company. :(  I also received a tin of cookies, a desk set, pen and 
pencil case, and Hermione's trunk Halmark ornament. My son (21) who 
has been suggesting that I need theropy for over a year even gave me 
one of those Harry "rag dolls."  Who knows maybe someday I may even 
win him over.  

My daughter got the computer game.  While we were out of town she was 
on pins and needles wanting to get back to play.  I agree with those 
who have said that the game is great.  I have even played some when I 
could think up some excuse to get her away from the computer.

I am glad to be back. Hope you all have had a wonderful Holiday. 

Professor Phlash - who is admiring her beautiful broken watch.




From firefightermichelle at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 29 03:02:33 2001
From: firefightermichelle at yahoo.com (firefightermichelle)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 03:02:33 -0000
Subject: A report of the past few weeks and  a very Harry Christmas
In-Reply-To: <a0hga0+ehg6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0jbo9+8sa4@eGroups.com>

Neth wrote:  So yah, things will get better. I'm not upset about
what happened with my job and place. I can get rehired
in Feb at my job, and my roommate was being eevahl.
Seriously, who tells a person that you can't use the
sponges or the POTS in the house and fusses that you
leave dirty dishes in the sick over the day while
you're working for 8 hours, but leaves her dishes for
about three days while she goes out of town? I
understand the problems with her dad and the like, as
he's been in and out of the hospital, but still. 


ANd then I reply:  You know, I think we must have had the same roomie 
at some point.  Mine seperated our dishes and food in the fridge.  
She took the tv out of the living room 'cause it was hers and I 
wasn't allowed to watch it.

<grin>  It really does get better! :)  But chicks shouldn't live 
together.  Gay, Straight, it doesn't matter :)

Many hopes for a great new place and an even better job!

Michelle :)  <--- who may very well have to tell her roomiet o shove 
it in the near future.  <sigh>  Chicks just shouldn't live together!





From meboriqua at aol.com  Sat Dec 29 03:11:10 2001
From: meboriqua at aol.com (jenny_ravenclaw)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 03:11:10 -0000
Subject: The Best TV Channel Ever
In-Reply-To: <a0i3tk+agne@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0jc8e+gu2l@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "heiditandy" <heidit at n...> wrote:
 
> VH1-Classic
> 
> So far this morning, I have seen XTC's Mayor of Simpleton, Roxy 
> Music's Avalon, Nik Kershaw's Wouldn't It Be Good, The Fixx's Stand 
> or Fall and Cyndi Lauper's True Colors.
> 
> I don't want to leave the house.>

I don't think I get that channel or I, too, would be a slave to the 
music.  I don't think there's an early eighties song I don't know.  
Try me - bwahahaha!

Heidi, when you come to NYC I'm going to make you a mixed tape of all 
tapes.  I am already planning the songs that will go on it.

--jenny from ravenclaw, who vividly remembers seeing Howard Jones in 
concert - and loving it ****************************************




From nethilia at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 29 09:20:05 2001
From: nethilia at yahoo.com (nethilia)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 09:20:05 -0000
Subject: A report of the past few weeks and  a very Harry Christmas
In-Reply-To: <a0jbo9+8sa4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0k1s5+9lju@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "firefightermichelle" 
<firefightermichelle at y...> wrote:
> Neth wrote:  So yah, things will get better. I'm not upset about
> what happened with my job and place. I can get rehired
> in Feb at my job, and my roommate was being eevahl.
> Seriously, who tells a person that you can't use the
> sponges or the POTS in the house and fusses that you
> leave dirty dishes in the sick over the day while
> you're working for 8 hours, but leaves her dishes for
> about three days while she goes out of town? I
> understand the problems with her dad and the like, as
> he's been in and out of the hospital, but still. 
> 
> 
> ANd then I reply:  You know, I think we must have had the same 
roomie 
> at some point.  Mine seperated our dishes and food in the fridge.

Mine didn't do that, but she might as well have. Four cabinets and 
two shelves of food, and she didn't eat any of it. Why was it there? 
Just in case her parents came to visit and they were hungry. She 
lived off macaroni and microwave food. and she didn't use her stove. 
Just microwaved everything O_o I mean, I live off ramen at times but 
damn. I add things and actually cook once in a while. If the 
microwave would have shorted out she would have starved. 

> She took the tv out of the living room 'cause it was hers and I 
> wasn't allowed to watch it.

MINE DID THAT! and then made me pay the cable bill when I DIDN'T HAVE 
A TV! >=O
 
> <grin>  It really does get better! :)  But chicks shouldn't live 
> together.  Gay, Straight, it doesn't matter :)

Odd...I can live with other people, long as they aren't nuts. But 
squirrels on a purple pogo stick! She may not have realized it, but 
she was subconciously trying to get rid of me. 

> Many hopes for a great new place and an even better job!

I still have a second job--part time teaching teachers to work on 
comps and the like. It's not a lot in pay (7 bucks and hour but only 
about 5-10 hours a week) but I wouldn't have had to get a job in the 
first place if a bunch of crap hadn't happened to me. As is, I was 
the only person in the house with a job, and struggling. Out of each 
of my checks I would have to scramble for bills and rent at the start 
of the month and then hope beyond hope i had enough to eat. She was 
also upset, most likely, that I always got myself something, no 
matter how small, out of each check. But it was either that or go 
insane. 

My mom raised me that the quickest way to feel like your job is 
getting you nowhere is to watch all the money fly out of your hands 
with nothing for yourself inside it. My mom's never been one to spend 
the rent money in place of buying us things, but still, a magazine or 
a 5 dollar plushie is something. I had to use one check to buy myself 
sponges and things so that she wouldn't complain I was using hers. 

> Michelle :)  <--- who may very well have to tell her roomie to 
shove 
> it in the near future.  <sigh>  Chicks just shouldn't live together!

I'm wondering if I shouldn't e-mail her a very long e-mail telling 
her that, in no uncertain terms, that I'm not going to speak to her 
or even associate with her until she feels that i'm not as eevalh or 
lazy as she thinks I am. I mean, even if I don't I still won't talk 
to her till she makes the first move (and probably not for a very 
long time after that). I would just rather she hear straight from the 
wolf's mouth on this one rather than reading my blog and then making 
her own interpretations. 

--Neth, who started to notice that things went downhill after my 
internet access got pulled because my check from the person in 
control of my funds was two days late (but that's a whole nother can 
of flobberworms)




From nethilia at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 29 09:29:42 2001
From: nethilia at yahoo.com (nethilia)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 09:29:42 -0000
Subject: A report of the past few weeks and  a very Harry Christmas
In-Reply-To: <a0hga0+ehg6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0k2e6+qs67@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "macloudt" <macloudt at y...> wrote:
> >While wandering around the Goodwill my mom and I found two 
identical 
> >red headed boy Cabbage Patch dolls. My mom (who, I am proud to
> > say, has converted to the Way of The Boy Who Lived; my
> > older sister got her to read the books) Grabbed them
> > and said "Fred and George!" and since I can knit and
> > the like, I'm going to make Weasley sweaters and make
> > me a set of Fred and George dolls.
> 
> I love this!  My knitting is mediocre at best, but now you have me 
> looking out for old Cabbage Patch dolls to work some magic... 

I may see if i can't find one that looks a bit like any other 
Weasleys. =D

> > So yah, things will get better. I'm not upset about
> > what happened with my job and place. I can get rehired
> > in Feb at my job, and my roommate was being eevahl.
> 
> Again, glad to hear it's all working out.  It looks like it was all 
> for the best anyway.  Enjoy Colorado, and I'll confidently wish you 
a 
> Happy New Year as it looks to be heading that way anyway :)

It is. Bad things, once handled, are no longer bad and then 
everything is happy and spanky. =D 

> Mary Ann :)

--Neth, currently the optimist (though a lot of the time I'm a 
pessimist)




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Dec 29 10:21:09 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 10:21:09 -0000
Subject: BBC Interview
In-Reply-To: <a0is8j+s98t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0k5el+vbi5@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "davewitley" <dfrankiswork at n...> wrote:

<snip!>

> There were also shots of notebooks of early drafts of PS - quite 
> legible but not enough time to read.

Also JKR had a copy of the final chapter of Book 7, which is kept in 
a yellow folder.  She was actually nervous about holding it up to the 
camera, though she herself stated that it was foolish to worry as the 
camera couldn't see through the folder.  Mind you, I was one of 
several million shouting "OPEN THE !"%*! THING!!!" at the telly, so 
perhaps she did have cause to worry.  Another interesting point is 
that she does *not* keep this folder in her house "for obvious 
reasons" (her words), and she didn't state where it *is* kept 
either.  Gee, doesn't she trust us? :)

What are your overall comments on the interview?  I was rather 
impressed with it, and thought that JKR came across as very down-to-
earth and likable.  It was certainly better than that awful show 
Channel 5 had on some months ago.  I was worried that it would be 
mostly narrated by someone else with just a few snippets of JKR, but 
the lady herself did the vast majority of the talking.  I hope for 
our North American friends that BBC America does show it in the near 
future as it was well worth pushing the kids on Daddy so Mom could 
watch it in peace!

Cheers!

Mary Ann
(who plans to do her Hogwarts Express Lego set today)




From dracos_boyfriend at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Dec 29 12:09:22 2001
From: dracos_boyfriend at yahoo.co.uk (dracos_boyfriend)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 12:09:22 -0000
Subject: BBC Interview
In-Reply-To: <a0k5el+vbi5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0kbpi+o7a2@eGroups.com>

Mary Ann said ... "It was certainly better than that awful show  
Channel 5 had on some months ago."

To be brutally honest, I think that's about the most that can be said 
for it - that it wasn't a tawdry exposee along the lines of that 
dismal Channel 5 documentary.  To be fair to it, I liked the ghost 
Harry effect which was sometimes lurking around in the background - 
and seeing all those folders and notebooks gave me a minor thrill 
(thankfully I taped it, so I can watch it back on freeze frame later 
and see what I can see) - but at the end of the day, we didn't learn 
anything new - it stuck fairly religiously to the famous 'single 
mother - cafe - book - money - American film' story that we have come 
to know inside out.  A fun diversion for an hour, particularly for 
Muggles and newbies, but not really worth a whole lot to anybody 
who 'knows their stuff' as we do.

Al




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 29 12:45:45 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 12:45:45 -0000
Subject: BBC Interview
In-Reply-To: <a0is8j+s98t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0kdtp+6fsg@eGroups.com>

David wrote:
 
> We got to see her friend Shaun (Sean?) on whom Ron is partly based. 
 
> She said that Ron resembles him in that he is always there when you 
> need him.  

"Getaway driver and foul-weather friend" (CS dedication).

Amy
noting in frustration that the BBC America schedule seems to feature 
French & Saunders and Monty Python reruns and little else...




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 29 13:03:47 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 13:03:47 -0000
Subject: A report of the past few weeks, roommates
In-Reply-To: <a0k1s5+9lju@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0kevj+110o7@eGroups.com>

Neth wrote: <nightmare month>

Schnoogles to Neth, have fun with your bf, and good luck getting a 
better job and roomie when you get home!

Michelle wrote:

> Chicks just shouldn't live together!

Thinking back on all my housemates, I think the women were generally 
neater than I was, the men were messier.  That makes them difficult in 
different ways--I'm either irritated at them for being slobs, or 
they're irritated at me . . . but I never had one who separated out 
the sponges.  Yeesh.

Amy




From cindysphynx at home.com  Sat Dec 29 16:26:37 2001
From: cindysphynx at home.com (cindysphynx)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 16:26:37 -0000
Subject: Clueless in Middle Earth (WAS LOTR movie)
In-Reply-To: <a01jrm+ksni@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0kqrt+8aub@eGroups.com>

I went to see the film last night.  I was totally blown away, as I 
thought it was magnificent!  

So many people have written great reviews that there's not much left 
to say.  But I didn't read the books, so I'll just mention a few 
things from the perspective of someone who knew next to nothing about 
the books before going to the LOTR movie.

1.  I let my 7 year old child come along.  Big mistake.  Wrong, 
wrong, wrong.  Note to self:  young children who go to scary PG-13 
movies keep their eyes closed the whole time, fall asleep in the 
theatre, and then sneak into their parents' bed at night.

2.  I have to admit that I had no idea who most of the characters 
were.  I got Gandolf (and I think Ian McClellan is amazing).  I got 
Frodo (who I really thought was a 14 year old short person or 
something until I saw the actor on Leno last night).  I got Sam and 
the other Hobbits.  I did not get the women *at all.*  I didn't 
understand the Pretty Boy with the Arrows, or the guy who died.  Who 
was that Strider fellow?  Is he the same person as Aragorn?  I have 
resolved to read the book immediately.

3.  Uh, how come some of these people were not cast in HP?  Ian 
McClellan is just way better than Richard Harris.  The guy with the 
braids and metal headband who chaired the meeting (Elrond?) is Sirius 
Black; the other fellowship guy with the beard (Aragorn?) was Lupin.  
I also think the HP filmmakers should start looking for non-Brit 
actors, because Wood really had me believing he is British when he is 
actually from California (according to Leno).  I guess good actors 
can do good accents.

4.  OK, those orcs were just way, way too much and over the top.  
Dang!  I liked the spooky guys on horseback, though, and that 
music/sound they played whenever they came around was really freaking 
me out.  I must go read the book.  

5.  Uh, Frodo puts the ring on and the world dissolves or something.  
I was totally baffled by this.  His sword was magical or something?  
Why is the Kevlar suit so important, other than just conveniently 
saving Frodo from the troll?  I must go read the book.  

6.  The troll scene was way too long.  However, this troll was way 
better than the HP troll, and the visual effects in LotR were 
substantially better overall.

7.  On balance, I think the director of LotR gets hired for future 
LotR films, whereas I gave Columbus his pink slip ages ago.  One huge 
difference was that the LotR director and his gang seemed to make a 
decision that they were going to tell a good, tight story and make 
the tough decisions about what to cut.  As a result, the scenes 
seemed much longer, better thought out, and better acted.  The 
dramatic tension had time to develop.  HP, on the other hand, rushed 
and rushed and rushed and tried to cram everything in.  So we got 
house ghosts popping up to deliver one or two lines.  We got Snape 
sprinting to the front of the class for his potions speech.  I think 
a movie adaptation is more satisfying when it just tries to tell the 
main story rather than function as a trailer for the book and mention 
everything.  Is there any way we can get the LotR director for HP 3 
and 4?

8.  The opening LotR scenes were outstanding.  As I said, I knew 
nothing.  The filmmakers gave me a quickie overview and moved right 
into the main story.  HP, on the other hand, did not do this at all, 
instead spending about half the film kind of establishing the 
wizarding world.  As a result, there was no time to develop the main 
story:  the mystery of the Sorcerer's Stone.  

9.  I am reconsidering my adamant opposition to splitting GoF into 
two movies.  Because I haven't read the trilogy, I actually expected 
our team in LotR to take the ring to that nasty mountain volcano 
thing, chuck it in, and declare victory.  I was stunned when the 
movie just  . . . ended.  But it worked.  So maybe it can work for 
GoF also (although I still think GoF can be cut to make a very good 3-
hour film).

OK, that's enough from me.  I am off to dig up "The Hobbit" and have 
at it from there.

Cindy (who thinks way too many creatures were beheaded in LotR and 
those goblin things couldn't shoot well enough to hit the side of a 
barn, but is willing to overlook it)





From hfakhro at nyc.rr.com  Sat Dec 29 16:56:35 2001
From: hfakhro at nyc.rr.com (hella_42)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 16:56:35 -0000
Subject: BBC Interview
In-Reply-To: <a0kdtp+6fsg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0ksk3+ha0c@eGroups.com>

Amy Z:

"noting in frustration that the BBC America schedule seems to 
feature French & Saunders and Monty Python reruns and little else..."

There may be hope for those of us based in America - there is a 
rumour that the credits of the documentary said BBC and A&E, so 
since the A&E Biography channel is showing a JK Rowling special on 
21st of January I am crossing my fingers that it is the same show. 
Perhaps someone who taped the show can doublecheck that it does 
say 'produced by BBC and A&E', and I shall keep my fingers crossed...

Hella




From nlpnt at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 29 17:18:13 2001
From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 17:18:13 -0000
Subject: The Best TV Channel Ever
In-Reply-To: <a0i8nn+7aa9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0ktsl+f7u4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "alyeskakc" <alyeskakc at n...> wrote:
I may have to upgrade so I can get that 
> and Speedvision. ::> Cheers,
> Kristin

Don't bother, for Speedvision. It's about to go over to an all-NASCAR-
all-the-time format. In other words, the stuff you can't see anywhere 
else is getting bumped for the stuff everyone else carries. Sigh.

Not that I get it; I've seen it on a friend's dish though. (I don't 
get BBC America either- we don't have cable here, we have Adelphia).

Noel




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 29 18:14:52 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 18:14:52 -0000
Subject: Clueless in Middle Earth (WAS LOTR movie)
In-Reply-To: <a0kqrt+8aub@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0l16s+bgkv@eGroups.com>

Cindy wrote:

> 3.  Uh, how come some of these people were not cast in HP?  Ian 
> McClellan is just way better than Richard Harris.  

I think the problem with Richard Harris is that he doesn't know that 
Dumbledore is whimsical and funny.  How would he?  He hasn't read the 
books and the screenplay left out most of his humor.  (Unless it was 
in there and got cut after shooting.)

>The guy with the 
> braids and metal headband who chaired the meeting (Elrond?) is 
Sirius 
> Black;
>the other fellowship guy with the beard (Aragorn?) was Lupin. 

The one who got killed?  That's Boromir.  OK, I can see it.  No way 
can Viggo (the guy who played Aragorn, who is the same person as 
Strider BTW) be Lupin though.  Nope, can't see that one.


> I also think the HP filmmakers should start looking for non-Brit 
> actors, because Wood really had me believing he is British when he 
is 
> actually from California (according to Leno).  I guess good actors 
> can do good accents.

Or Americans can't spot bad English accents.  Weaving isn't British 
either; he's Australian (and does a flawless American accent, BTW, 
judging from The Matrix--I'd never have known he wasn't American).  
Brits, how'd they do?
 
> 7.  On balance, I think the director of LotR gets hired for future 
> LotR films,

Already done--they have filmed them all and are doing the 
postproduction on the final two over the next two years.

>  Is there any way we can get the LotR director for HP 3 
> and 4?

Good idea!

> 9.  I am reconsidering my adamant opposition to splitting GoF into 
> two movies.  Because I haven't read the trilogy, I actually expected 
> our team in LotR to take the ring to that nasty mountain volcano 
> thing, chuck it in, and declare victory.  I was stunned when the 
> movie just  . . . ended.  But it worked.  

I know someone who suggested that they film LoTR as *6* movies, since 
JRRT wrote it as six books (two per volume of the trilogy).  But GF 
was not written as two books, so it would be a lot harder to make that 
work.

Amy




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 29 18:18:06 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 18:18:06 -0000
Subject: Clueless in Middle Earth (WAS LOTR movie)
In-Reply-To: <a0l16s+bgkv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0l1cu+57ac@eGroups.com>

I wrote, confusingly:

> Weaving isn't British 
> either; 

Sorry, Cindy, forgot to say who he was.  He played Elrond, the council 
chair with the braids.  And you did a pretty good job of keeping the 
characters straight for someone who hasn't read the book.  JRRT is 
notorious for giving characters, places, etc. 10 names each (what 
they're called by the elves, dwarfs, humans, etc. etc.), and they 
carried a bit of that over into the movie.

Amy




From UcfRentLuvr at cs.com  Sat Dec 29 18:36:02 2001
From: UcfRentLuvr at cs.com (UcfRentLuvr at cs.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 13:36:02 EST
Subject: A report of the past few weeks and a very Harry Christmas
Message-ID: <d1.11b15e79.295f6712@cs.com>

<snip>
> She took the tv out of the living room 'cause it was hers and I 
> wasn't allowed to watch it.

<MINE DID THAT! and then made me pay the cable bill when I DIDN'T HAVE 
A TV! >=O>>>

My roommate and I have TV problems as well. *Several* times she would take 
the remote right out of my hand and change the channel without even asking.  >
:(  

Harry Christmas:

Let's see...I got:

a watch with Harry flying on it with the Snitch as the second hand
two HP Hallmark ornaments--the Snape Potions class one and the Mirror of 
Erised one
two other ornaments--one of Ron and one of Hermione
HP movie wall calender
HP toothbrush and toothpaste :)

Hmm..I think that's it. Not much, but I like 'em. :)

***Dixie Malfoy***




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From firefightermichelle at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 29 18:38:33 2001
From: firefightermichelle at yahoo.com (firefightermichelle)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 18:38:33 -0000
Subject: For WinAmp users!
Message-ID: <a0l2j9+9f44@eGroups.com>

My best friend Ryan, the recent convert to HP addiction discovered 
they have HP winamp skins ... if you have winamp, you know these are, 
if you don't, you may be confused now! :)  

he also made a bunch of Icons for your desktop!  I have them, and if 
anyone would like them, email me offlist and I will do my best to not 
screw up sending them to you! :)

When Ryan obsesses, he obsesses!  You should see his desktop 
wallpaper and everything.  He just rocks!

Michelle :) <---who has had the same best friend through 4 different 
states, 2 high schools, a few colleges, a couple different career 
choices, and a little over 10 years! :)




From jfaulkne at sas.upenn.edu  Sat Dec 29 19:07:05 2001
From: jfaulkne at sas.upenn.edu (Jen Faulkner)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 14:07:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Clueless in Middle Earth (WAS LOTR movie)
In-Reply-To: <a0kqrt+8aub@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0112291323380.11656-100000@mail1.sas.upenn.edu>

On Sat, 29 Dec 2001, cindysphynx wrote:

> I went to see the film last night.  I was totally blown away, as I
> thought it was magnificent!

I've seen it twice now (once not having read more than the first 100
pages, and then a second time having read all of FotR) -- and I'm
looking around for someone to go see it with me a third time.  It's
*marvelous*.  I can't stand long movies (I was squirming and bored about
halfway through HP), usually, but I *didn't* want this one to end.  (It
was better the second time when I knew when a part I could get up and
use the restroom was, so that there wasn't that problem though. *g*)  I
followed it just fine not knowing much about it, and I enjoyed it even
more once I'd read the book to get more of the backstory filled in.  And
it did finally inspire me to make it all the way through FotR, which I'd
never managed before. *g*

Cannot *wait* until it comes out on DVD. :)

> Frodo (who I really thought was a 14 year old short person or
> something until I saw the actor on Leno last night).

*laughs* Elijah Wood is too precious for words -- and I was amazed both
times I saw the movie at how absolutely flawless his skin is. :)  But
now he just *looks* like a Hobbit to me, even out of the movie.
There's a terrific clip of the cast's party at Cannes, with interviews
and so on, and the four Hobbits sing together, and really, despite the
lack of curly hair, they *still* just are so Hobbitish:
http://wwwneu.herr-der-ringe-film.de/hdr/media/multimedia/fernsehberichte/videos/lotr_party_high.rm

That same clip also features Orlando Bloom (Legolas) kissing Viggo
Morgentsen (Aragorn), for those who like that sort of thing (she said,
disinterestedly *g*).

> I did not get the women *at all.*

There's not very many of them, and they don't do much.  (Tolkien's is a
very male (homosocial) world.)  Arwen is the daughter of Elrond (and
granddaughter of Galadriel) -- she's the one played by Liv Tyler.  In
the book, she actually doesn't save Frodo at the river at all (there was
another Elf, Glorfindel, who does all that, except the flood which is
caused by Elrond and the horses in it which are Gandalf's doing), nor is
there the scene between her and Aragorn (though she does indeed choose
to share a moral life with him later, yes?).  Her role in the movie is
greatly expanded from the book, an improvement in my opinion.  ('Sides,
I like Liv Tyler, and whatever they did to her voice was awesome.)

Galadriel is also an Elf, a very old and powerful Elf -- and possessor
of one of the three Elf Rings (remember, there were seven Dwarf Rings,
all lost or in Sauron's hands; nine Man (*sighs*) Rings, still possessed
by the Ringwraiths; and three Elf Rings, which the Elves still have).
Elrond (the head Elf at Rivendell, the one who called the council) has
one as well.  She is the Lady of Lothlrien (her husband, who I don't
remember doing anything in the movie, is Celeborn), the woodsy city they
go to after the mines of Moria.  She's rather more scary in the movie
than the book; in both she makes the speech about what would happen if
she were to have the One Ring, but it's not half as frightening in the
book.  (That's true of a lot of things.  The book's narrative voice
precludes too much emotional response from me.)  The mirror sequence is
a bit different too.  Anyway, she seemed a lot kinder (to me) in the
book, and the bit about her haivng a Ring is played up there.  No
warnings from her about the Fellowship breaking, either.  She's played
by Cate Blanchette.

> I didn't understand the Pretty Boy with the Arrows, or the guy who
> died.

The Pretty Boy with Arrows is Legolas, an Elf.  (Aren't Elves pretty?)
He comes from the Elves in a different forest, Mirkwood, and he's the
son of their king.  He's chosen (by Elrond, in the book) to represent
the Elves on the quest.

The guy who died is Boromir, a Man from the South, from the kingdom of
Gondor.  He's not a king (the rightful king is Aragorn/Strider), but his
father is the regent of it in the absence of the kings.  He's never
really in favor of the 'destroy the Ring' idea; he thinks that it can be
used for good, despite all the evidence that it cannot.

> Who
> was that Strider fellow?  Is he the same person as Aragorn?  I have
> resolved to read the book immediately.

The book is worth reading -- but I warn you: skip the prologue if you're
having any difficulty.  It's tedious and unimportant to the story.

Strider is indeed the same person as Aragorn son of Arathorn (the
patronymics in the book are really... pervasive); he's a Ranger, a
person that wanders the North (fighting Evil things).  The Rangers are
all remnants of the oldest group of Men (the most aristocratic).  He's a
friend of Gandalf's -- the Hobbits are given a letter in the book to
make that clear, whereas the movie simply requires that they blindly
trust him.  He's the heir of the ancient king Isildur (the one who cut
the finger with the Ring from Sauron's hand), but has not yet reclaimed
his throne.

> 5.  Uh, Frodo puts the ring on and the world dissolves or something.
> I was totally baffled by this.

In the book, it's not apparent, I don't think, until he puts the ring on
when running away from Boromir, but when he uses the Ring, the reason
that he becomes invisible is that he's entering the Wraith world, a sort
of spirit-plane.  (Thus the Ringwraiths, who dwell there all the time,
can still see him to stab him.)

> His sword was magical or something?

Yup.  It's an Elf sword (named Sting), and it glows blue in the presence
of Evil (Orcs).

> Why is the Kevlar suit so important, other than just conveniently
> saving Frodo from the troll?  I must go read the book.

The mail-shirt is made of mithril, which is what the Dwarves were
actually mining for in Moria (the movie never said).  It's extremely
rare now that the mines are shut, and is worth a fortune.  (The shirt
Frodo has is worth as much as everything in the Shire.)

And Cindy, I wouldn't start with *The Hobbit*.  It's really not
neccessary to the other books, and it's defeated me every time I've
tried to read it.  Do feel free to go ahead and read FotR first.
(Unless you don't want to, in which case, feel free to ignore my advice.
*g*)

--jen :)

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Clamavit lupus, Ergo huffabo, et puffabo, et tuam domum inflabo!  Et
huffavit, et puffavit, et totam domum inflavit!" -- Tres Porcelli.

jen's fics: http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~jfaulkne/fan/ (URL change!)
jen's LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/lysimache/




From jdumas at kingwoodcable.com  Sat Dec 29 19:27:01 2001
From: jdumas at kingwoodcable.com (Katze)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 13:27:01 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Clueless in Middle Earth (WAS LOTR movie)
References: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0112291323380.11656-100000@mail1.sas.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <3C2E1905.6C1BD31F@kingwoodcable.com>

Jen Faulkner wrote:

> *laughs* Elijah Wood is too precious for words -- and I was amazed both
> times I saw the movie at how absolutely flawless his skin is. :)  But
> now he just *looks* like a Hobbit to me, even out of the movie.
> There's a terrific clip of the cast's party at Cannes, with interviews
> and so on, and the four Hobbits sing together, and really, despite the
> lack of curly hair, they *still* just are so Hobbitish:
> 

I don't remember where I read it, but I read how Wood got the part.
Apparently Jackson had been in England looking for a British Frodo, and
Wood found he. He just absolutely wanted to be in this movie, so he
dressed himself up in Hobbit gear and videotapes himself do Hobbit type
things and sent it off to Jackson. Apparently Jackson was impressed ;-)

In regards to Liv's voice. I'm not sure what they did, but I remember
seeing a clip of her talking about how she developed the speech patter
for Arwen based in the language in the books. I thought that was quite
wonderful..truly getting into her part.

-Katze



From foxmoth at qnet.com  Sat Dec 29 20:40:13 2001
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 20:40:13 -0000
Subject: If you watch the Rose Parade...
Message-ID: <a0l9nd+msj3@eGroups.com>

on New Years Day, take a look at the Dr. Pepper float (it's 
number 29).  I helped decorate it! I spent most of yesterday 
gluing real moss onto artificial boulders covered with poppy 
seeds. For those who aren't familiar with this American 
extravaganza, all Rose Parade floats have to be covered with 
vegetable material on every exposed surface. It can be crushed, 
shredded or ground but not dyed. 
   Seeing the floats under construction is amazing. There were 
about nine of them in our tent. They are huge close up, about two 
stories high and covered with scaffolding. The paid crew runs 
around with clip boards and looks important, while the 
volunteers (like me) try to do what we're told and stay out of their 
way at the same time. We all had pieces of masking tape on our 
backs with our names and a number saying how many years 
experience at decorating we had. I was a lowly zero, but I did  
actually get to put stuff on the float. Only experts get to handle the 
actual flowers...they were all stowed in five gallon white plastic 
buckets and there were thousands of them...all kinds and colors.
And they kept bringing more in all day.

Pippin




From firefightermichelle at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 29 21:03:04 2001
From: firefightermichelle at yahoo.com (firefightermichelle)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 21:03:04 -0000
Subject: If you watch the Rose Parade...
In-Reply-To: <a0l9nd+msj3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0lb28+uoe9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> wrote:
> on New Years Day, take a look at the Dr. Pepper float (it's 
> number 29).  I helped decorate it! > Pippin

That is really cool!!  How did you get to volunteer for that?  of 
course, I'd love to do it, but I'm on the other side of the country!!!

Michelle :) <---who has been in a couple parades, the most recent 
riding the back of a fire truck that is about 30 years older than me 
and kept dying ... good thing we have hills! :)




From saitaina at wizzards.net  Sat Dec 29 21:11:14 2001
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 13:11:14 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: If you watch the Rose Parade...
References: <a0lb28+uoe9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <003701c190ad$59fed760$7b4e28d1@oemcomputer>

Ah the Rose Bowl parade...

I used to dream of when I was old enough to volunteer for that but by the time I was I moved out of California and never got a chance to go back down.

I will be sure to play attention to the float dear and imagine all the hard work that went into it. :)

Saitaina
*****
"He shouldn't have done that...that was a bad idea.  I keep a little list of all the people who pat my behind without permission and several of them have died un-natural and un-timely deaths."-Julia, "Designing Women"

"This is what it's all been about. All the hatred and suffering and fighting and dying...over nothing 
more then the colors that can be  found in a child's crayola box."

"Kids Mess you up...you spend the rest of your life yelling at something you don't  understand."




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From Zorb17 at aol.com  Sat Dec 29 21:47:12 2001
From: Zorb17 at aol.com (Zorb17 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 16:47:12 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: If you watch the Rose Parade...
Message-ID: <125.974adf7.295f93e0@aol.com>

Ooo, I got to help decorate a couple years ago.  My friend's mom works for 
21st Century Insurance, and she got us a couple spaces to help out.  We 
didn't actually get to decorate, though, just cut up lots and lots of yellow 
flowers...


Zorb



From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 29 23:26:24 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 23:26:24 -0000
Subject: Clueless in Middle Earth (WAS LOTR movie)
In-Reply-To: <3C2E1905.6C1BD31F@kingwoodcable.com>
Message-ID: <a0ljf0+pma1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Katze <jdumas at k...> wrote:
> In regards to Liv's voice. I'm not sure what they did, but I 
> remember seeing a clip of her talking about how she developed the 
> speech patter for Arwen based in the language in the books. I 
> thought that was quite wonderful..truly getting into her part.

I was listening very intently when she was speaking elvish and 
reading the subtitles at the same time; I am quite certain that she 
pronounced Arwen "Ar-oo-en."  In Welsh, "w" is pronounced "oo." 
(I've just finished reading "The Grey King," in which Susan Cooper 
gives a wonderfully succinct explanation of Welsh pronunciation.)  
Does this mean JRRT based Elvish on Welsh?  Since Welsh is one of 
the Brythonic languages, that would make a certain amount of sense, 
I suppose.  As a philologist, he probably knew how to pronounce/read 
all of the ancient languages of the British Isles.  (I wish I could 
speak Gaelic; I love listening to Mary Jane Lamond sing in Gaelic, 
and not just because she has the same last name I was born with.)  I 
was just fascinated to hear Tyler say "Ar-oo-en."  FOTR was just so 
wonderfully thorough I think I'm seriously considering going to see 
that film again instead of going with a friend who hasn't seen the 
HP film yet...

--Barb





From foxmoth at qnet.com  Sun Dec 30 00:18:54 2001
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 00:18:54 -0000
Subject: If you watch the Rose Parade...
In-Reply-To: <a0lb28+uoe9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0lmhe+gqrq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "firefightermichelle" 
<firefightermichelle at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> 
wrote:
> > on New Years Day, take a look at the Dr. Pepper float (it's 
> > number 29).  I helped decorate it! > Pippin
> 
> That is really cool!!  How did you get to volunteer for that?  of 
> course, I'd love to do it, but I'm on the other side of the country!!!

  Our Temple youth group went partners with a Girl Scout troop 
which decorates every year. I was one of the drivers. Newbies 
often end up chopping strawflowers or sorting seeds so we 
were lucky to get to work on the actual float. The lowliest job is 
sweeping up, which is assigned as a punishment detail to 
anyone who commits a mortal sin such as talking back  to the 
paid crew or worst of all, leaving a pot of glue unattended. Glue 
pots (there are four different kinds of glue) must be returned to 
the glue shed and never ever ever left on the float.
    We also spent a lot of time cutting up whole Christmas trees 
to get foot long fluffy branches.

Pippin




From virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 30 00:31:53 2001
From: virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com (virtualworldofhp)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 00:31:53 -0000
Subject: If you watch the Rose Parade...
In-Reply-To: <a0l9nd+msj3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0ln9p+a7ig@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> wrote:
> on New Years Day, take a look at the Dr. Pepper float (it's 
> number 29).  I helped decorate it! I spent most of yesterday 
> gluing real moss onto artificial boulders covered with poppy 
> seeds. For those who aren't familiar with this American 
> extravaganza, all Rose Parade floats have to be covered with 
> vegetable material on every exposed surface. It can be crushed, 
> shredded or ground but not dyed. 
>    Seeing the floats under construction is amazing. There were 
> about nine of them in our tent. They are huge close up, about two 
> stories high and covered with scaffolding. The paid crew runs 
> around with clip boards and looks important, while the 
> volunteers (like me) try to do what we're told and stay out of their 
> way at the same time. We all had pieces of masking tape on our 
> backs with our names and a number saying how many years 
> experience at decorating we had. I was a lowly zero, but I did  
> actually get to put stuff on the float. Only experts get to handle the 
> actual flowers...they were all stowed in five gallon white plastic 
> buckets and there were thousands of them...all kinds and colors.
> And they kept bringing more in all day.

That is so cool, Pippin!  I've always been in love with the Rose
Parade and COMPLETELY at awe at the amount of work those floats seem
to carry.  I can only imagine how incredible it would be like to see
them in person.  Kudos to you!

-Megan




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 30 01:43:00 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (jenP_97)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 01:43:00 -0000
Subject: JK and her *new* husband...
Message-ID: <a0lrf4+lcvf@eGroups.com>

Well, she did it... she got married.  On Boxing Day.  Good for her.  
IMHO, however, I think this is "bad" for us... I mean, please... who 
would want to finish a book on their honeymoon?

What do you guys think?  Is this a portent of evil (just kidding...), 
or is it possibly an end to her distractions?  Will it have anything 
or nothing to do at all with the finish of the next (3) books?  Am I 
the only one who's seen the headline on Yahoo!?  ;)

Jen (who's happy that this Neil guy seems like a nice person, but who 
is thinking that they'll want to have kids next, and while we know 
that book one was written when her daughter was little, it took her 
FIVE years to do it...)

;)





From jdumas at kingwoodcable.com  Sun Dec 30 02:47:53 2001
From: jdumas at kingwoodcable.com (Katze)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 20:47:53 -0600
Subject: timing of the next few books/Boxing day
References: <a0lrf4+lcvf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3C2E8059.FA932EA1@kingwoodcable.com>

jenP_97 wrote:
> 
> Well, she did it... she got married.  On Boxing Day.  Good for her.
> IMHO, however, I think this is "bad" for us... I mean, please... who
> would want to finish a book on their honeymoon?

Maybe the book is already done, and it's at the languages editors right
now being translation, and will soon be whisked off to the printers.
Ahhh...one can only hope ;-)

Ok...This is going to sound really silly to you UK folks, but why is
December 26th called Boxing day? 

Clueless in the US
-Katze



From pbnesbit at msn.com  Sun Dec 30 03:56:20 2001
From: pbnesbit at msn.com (harpdreamer)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 03:56:20 -0000
Subject: Boxing Day (Was: Re:  timing of the next few books/Boxing day)
In-Reply-To: <3C2E8059.FA932EA1@kingwoodcable.com>
Message-ID: <a0m394+gacj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Katze <jdumas at k...> wrote:


> > Ok...This is going to sound really silly to you UK folks, but why 
is
> December 26th called Boxing day? 
> 
> Clueless in the US
> -Katze

Not silly at all, Katze, since we don't celebrate it.  Boxing Day was 
traditionally the day on which Christmas Boxes (small amounts of 
money) were given to the poor.  I believe they were also given to 
servants (when there was such a thing!).  Now, I think it's also 
extended to others, such as the postman, possibly dust collectors 
(garbagemen), and others of that ilk who perform services for you 
throughout the year.  (Brits, please correct me if I'm wrong on this!)

Some people here in the States also do this by giving their 
hairdressers, doorman, and the like Christmas gifts.  

Hope this helps!

Peace & Plenty, 

Parker 




From cindysphynx at home.com  Sun Dec 30 04:24:41 2001
From: cindysphynx at home.com (cindysphynx)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 04:24:41 -0000
Subject: JK and her *new* husband...
In-Reply-To: <a0lrf4+lcvf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0m4u9+16sq@eGroups.com>

Jen wrote:

> What do you guys think?  Is this a portent of evil (just 
kidding...), 
> or is it possibly an end to her distractions?  

It is the end of everything!  The absolute end, I tell you!    She's 
moved on!  She doesn't need her fans anymore!  :-)

Cindy (in a total blind panic now and worried we will never, ever see 
any more books)




From firefightermichelle at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 30 05:45:35 2001
From: firefightermichelle at yahoo.com (firefightermichelle)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 05:45:35 -0000
Subject: God(s) Bless the First Amendment!
Message-ID: <a0m9lv+9t2s@eGroups.com>

After I read the "Jo got married" story on Yahoo, I clicked on the 
link to see Harry Potter news ... this was the lead story on that!

Michelle :) <---who wouldn't burn a book even if she didn't like it, 
even though she likes fire a whole lot! :)

*********************************************************************


ALAMOGORDO, N.M. (Reuters) - A New Mexico church plans to burn Harry 
Potter books because they are ``an abomination to God,'' the church 
pastor said Wednesday.

Pastor Jack Brock said he would have a ``holy bonfire'' on Sunday at 
the Christ Community Church in Alamogordo in southern New Mexico to 
torch books about the fictional teen-age wizard who is wildly popular 
with youngsters around the world.

``These books encourage our youth to learn more about witches, 
warlocks, and sorcerers, and those things are an abomination to God 
and to me,'' Brock, 74, told Reuters.

``Harry Potter books are going to destroy the lives of many young 
people.''

The books, written by British author J.K. Rowling, have been runaway 
bestsellers and a movie, ``Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone,'' 
is currently a blockbuster hit.

Brock, who said his Christmas Eve sermon was titled ``The Baby Jesus 
or Harry Potter?,'' described the book burning as part of an effort 
to encourage Christians to remove everything from their homes that 
prevents them from communicating with God.

The books have come under fire in a few U.S communities for 
supposedly encouraging devilish thoughts among the young, but Rowling 
in an earlier statement issued by her publisher Bloomsbury called the 
criticisms absurd.

``I have met thousands of children now, and not even one time has a 
child come up to me and said, 'Ms. Rowling, I'm so glad I've read 
these books because now I want to be a witch,''' she said.

Reuters/Variety REUTERS 






From dracos_boyfriend at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Dec 30 12:45:31 2001
From: dracos_boyfriend at yahoo.co.uk (dracos_boyfriend)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 12:45:31 -0000
Subject: God(s) Bless the First Amendment!
In-Reply-To: <a0m9lv+9t2s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0n29b+10acv@eGroups.com>

> 
> ``I have met thousands of children now, and not even one time has a 
> child come up to me and said, 'Ms. Rowling, I'm so glad I've read 
> these books because now I want to be a witch,''' she said.
> 
> Reuters/Variety REUTERS

One is sorely tempted to go to a book signing and say to J.K. 'I'm so 
glad I've read these books because now I have chosen to devote my 
life to the Church of Satan' :wicked grin:

Gnnngh ... why are people so dimwitted?  What planet was this man 
raised on?

Al




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sun Dec 30 12:47:28 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 12:47:28 -0000
Subject: JK and her *new* husband...
In-Reply-To: <a0lrf4+lcvf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0n2d0+5th1@eGroups.com>


> Jen (who's happy that this Neil guy seems like a nice person, but 
who 
> is thinking that they'll want to have kids next, and while we know 
> that book one was written when her daughter was little, it took her 
> FIVE years to do it...)

Well, she wasn't just writing the first book--she was sketching out 
the entire story arc and no doubt writing lots of those character bios 
we're all dying to get our mitts on.

The upside is she'll now have built-in child care.  I trust he is 
planning to quit his job to be a full-time dad and 
tea-bringer-to-writing-wife.  In that case we can permit it.

<g>
Amy




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 30 13:47:03 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 13:47:03 -0000
Subject: JK and her *new* husband...
In-Reply-To: <a0n2d0+5th1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0n5sn+37mo@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "lupinesque" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> 
> > Jen (who's happy that this Neil guy seems like a nice person, 
> but who is thinking that they'll want to have kids next, and while 
> we know that book one was written when her daughter was little, it 
> took her FIVE years to do it...)
> 
> Well, she wasn't just writing the first book--she was sketching 
> out the entire story arc and no doubt writing lots of those 
> character bios we're all dying to get our mitts on.
> 
> The upside is she'll now have built-in child care.  I trust he is 
> planning to quit his job to be a full-time dad and 
> tea-bringer-to-writing-wife.  In that case we can permit it.

Am I delusional or didn't we get some kind of news during the summer 
that the completed manuscript had been sent to her editor?  Was that 
just a ruse to placate us temporarily?  Is the fifth book really so 
far from completion that it won't be out until 2003?  Argh, argh, 
and more argh.

--Barb
(who has never hoped so much that she is NOT delusional, not that 
that's done a lot of good in the past...)





From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 30 14:04:52 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 06:04:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Symbols with names and Student Pictures?
Message-ID: <20011230140452.62024.qmail@web13702.mail.yahoo.com>

Where are these names with the symbols and what
pictures of the students or characters are all of
these at? If they were on her interview, well, that
would explain that. Because I didn't see here in US.
Unless it was on BBC America. Anybody, information as
to where to see them. Thank You!

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Very
Merry Band of Muggles 100%

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From heidit at netbox.com  Sun Dec 30 14:07:36 2001
From: heidit at netbox.com (heidit at netbox.com)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 09:07:36 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Symbols with names and Student Pictures?
In-Reply-To: 0
Message-ID: <16600678.732964440@imcingular.com>

They can be found in the photos section of the Main Group - follow the menu along the left side.

Heidi Tandy
Follow me to FictionAlley - Harry Potter fanfics of all shapes, sizes and ships - 7 sickles an ounce
http://www.FictionAlley.org

----Original Message----

From: Wanda Mallett <witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Symbols with names and Student Pictures?
Real-To:  Wanda Mallett <witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com>

Where are these names with the symbols and what
pictures of the students or characters are all of
these at? If they were on her interview, well, that
would explain that. Because I didn't see here in US.
Unless it was on BBC America. Anybody, information as
to where to see them. Thank You!

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Very
Merry Band of Muggles 100%

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

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From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Sun Dec 30 14:22:46 2001
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 14:22:46 -0000
Subject: JK and her *new* husband...
In-Reply-To: <a0n5sn+37mo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0n7vm+gahb@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "blpurdom" <blpurdom at y...> wrote:
> Am I delusional or didn't we get some kind of news during the summer 
> that the completed manuscript had been sent to her editor?  Was that 
> just a ruse to placate us temporarily?  

Sorry, Barb, but I think you must have dreamed that one.  According to an 
article in the Guardian on Dec. 15, she has yet to send the ms to Bloomsbury.  
Based on my own experience and the history of publishing GoF, it will take about  
6 months from ms delivery to the book reaching the stores.

http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,6109,619138,00.html




From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk  Sun Dec 30 14:57:05 2001
From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (keithfras)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 14:57:05 -0000
Subject: Clueless in Middle Earth (WAS LOTR movie)
In-Reply-To: <a0kqrt+8aub@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0na02+u017@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "cindysphynx" <cindysphynx at h...> wrote:
> 2.  I have to admit that I had no idea who most of the characters 
> were.  I got Gandolf (and I think Ian McClellan is amazing).  I got 
> Frodo (who I really thought was a 14 year old short person or 
> something until I saw the actor on Leno last night).  I got Sam and 
> the other Hobbits.  I did not get the women *at all.*

Arwen (Liv Tyler) was Elrond's (Chairman Guy's) daughter, who has the 
hots for Aragorn/Strider. Galadriel (blonde chick who starts out 
talking as if on sedatives) is an elf of royal blood. That's all you 
really need to know.

  I didn't 
> understand the Pretty Boy with the Arrows,

Legolas - they don't tell you, but he's the son of the King of the 
Elves of Mirkwood (which is to the north of Lothlorien).

 or the guy who died.  Who 
> was that Strider fellow?  Is he the same person as Aragorn?

Yes. :)

  I have 
> resolved to read the book immediately.

Good plan.


> 
> 3.  Uh, how come some of these people were not cast in HP?  Ian 
> McClellan is just way better than Richard Harris.  The guy with the 
> braids and metal headband who chaired the meeting (Elrond?) is 
Sirius 
> Black;

Hugo Weaving. AKA Agent Smith from The Matrix.
> 4.  OK, those orcs were just way, way too much and over the top.  
> Dang!  I liked the spooky guys on horseback, though, and that 
> music/sound they played whenever they came around was really 
freaking 
> me out.  I must go read the book. 

What about their scream? Wheesh! It gives me a headache every time I 
hear it!

 
> 
> 5.  Uh, Frodo puts the ring on and the world dissolves or 
something.  
> I was totally baffled by this. 

He enters a sort of shadow/wraith world/dimension.

 His sword was magical or something?  
> Why is the Kevlar suit so important, other than just conveniently 
> saving Frodo from the troll?  I must go read the book. 

Well, it's worth a fortune because it's made of mithril, which is 
very hard and light and also very rare at the time of the story (it 
was only found in Moria, which is rather hard *cough* to mine in any 
more because of the Balrog).

> Cindy (who thinks way too many creatures were beheaded in LotR and 
> those goblin things couldn't shoot well enough to hit the side of a 
> barn, but is willing to overlook it)

Well, there were a lot more of them than the good guys. But I 
actually agree about the guy Aragorn beheaded at the end (his name is 
Lurtz) - it looked very fake.




From jfaulkne at sas.upenn.edu  Sun Dec 30 15:03:01 2001
From: jfaulkne at sas.upenn.edu (Jen Faulkner)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 10:03:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Clueless in Middle Earth (WAS LOTR movie)
In-Reply-To: <a0na02+u017@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0112300959180.24183-100000@mail2.sas.upenn.edu>

On Sun, 30 Dec 2001, keithfras wrote:

> But I actually agree about the guy Aragorn beheaded at the end (his
> name is Lurtz) - it looked very fake.

Ah, beheadings.  By the time we got to that one, the friends I went to
see it with the first time could no longer be restrained from saying
(not all that loud, thank goodness), "There can be only one!"  *g*

--jen, now about halfway through "The Two Towers" and *loving* Ents,
whilst being amazed at how much Stephen R. Donaldson apparently drew on
Tolkien in creating the Thomas Covenant series. :)

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Clamavit lupus, Ergo huffabo, et puffabo, et tuam domum inflabo!  Et
huffavit, et puffavit, et totam domum inflavit!" -- Tres Porcelli.

jen's fics: http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~jfaulkne/fan/ (URL change!)
jen's LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/lysimache/




From potterlovingash at hotmail.com  Sun Dec 30 15:52:11 2001
From: potterlovingash at hotmail.com (potterlovingash)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 15:52:11 -0000
Subject: God(s) Bless the First Amendment!
In-Reply-To: <a0m9lv+9t2s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0nd7b+a8nd@eGroups.com>

*hides face in embarrassment*  Please realize this book burning moron 
is in Alamogordo, which is really out in the middle of no where. If I 
hadn't had to fly out to Phoenix yesterday, I would be out there 
today causing a bit of a pro-Harry stir.

~Ashley~
born and raised in Rio Rancho, New Mexico




From jdumas at kingwoodcable.com  Sun Dec 30 16:14:52 2001
From: jdumas at kingwoodcable.com (Katze)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 10:14:52 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: JK and her *new* husband...
References: <a0n7vm+gahb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3C2F3D7C.7E9571E6@kingwoodcable.com>

joanne0012 wrote:
> 
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "blpurdom" <blpurdom at y...> wrote:
> > Am I delusional or didn't we get some kind of news during the summer
> > that the completed manuscript had been sent to her editor?  Was that
> > just a ruse to placate us temporarily?
> 
> Sorry, Barb, but I think you must have dreamed that one.  According to an
> article in the Guardian on Dec. 15, she has yet to send the ms to Bloomsbury.
> Based on my own experience and the history of publishing GoF, it will take about
> 6 months from ms delivery to the book reaching the stores.
> 
> http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,6109,619138,00.html
> 

Actually...there was an article on the Leaky Cauldron (posted on 12/19)
from a Spanish newspaper, that stated the manuscript was done. It
appears we have conflicting information.

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2001_12_16_archive.html#8040052

-Katze



From tabouli at unite.com.au  Sun Dec 30 16:27:21 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 03:27:21 +1100
Subject: The bridal JKR
Message-ID: <003501c1914e$ecdd7ea0$f952dccb@price>

I have two parallel reactions to JKR's happy news.  As a writer who cheers on JKR's phenomenal success as an inspiration to struggling artists everywhere (yes, a book still *can* change the world!), I applaud this new development as loudly as I applaud the film, the action figures, the monster displays in every bookshop and supermarket, etc.etc.  Not only has she made a mint from WRITING (yes, WRITING can still make millionaires!), she's also got herself a happy new beginning after years of poverty and misery, divorce, etc.  Good stuff, bring it on.  I don't care how rich she gets, in fact, I hope she gets even richer and has a glorious second marriage: frankly, wouldn't even those of you who find her excessive wealth a bit distasteful and her action figures and skateboards prostitution rather the money went to JKR than Rupert Murdoch or Bill Gates or Richard Branson?

My other reaction is as a reader, and this one is, alas, less generous.  It says (or rather, screams)  WHAT???  So *that's* what you've been doing all this time!  Hanging out with Neil on beaches and having candlelit dinners when you're MEANT TO BE FINISHING OoP!!!  Rip off that veil and pick up that pen, woman!  There are children (not to mention several thousand HP4GU members) banging their heads on walls and torturing bookshop sales assistants who may suffer lifelong trauma if you don't get that manuscript to the publisher This Minute!  (who knows, the scars inflicted might genuinely turn children to evil...)

Grrrzzzngh.

Tabouli (who is very sleep deprived, and not making much sense, but suspects that the longer OoP takes, the more the reader's voice will start to dominate)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Dec 30 18:55:26 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 18:55:26 -0000
Subject: Clueless in Middle Earth (WAS LOTR movie)
In-Reply-To: <a0ljf0+pma1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0nnuu+2db4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "blpurdom" <blpurdom at y...> wrote:

> Does this mean JRRT based Elvish on Welsh?  Since Welsh is one of 
> the Brythonic languages, that would make a certain amount of sense, 
> I suppose.  

In one of his essays, Tolkien said something like often people 
have the experience of encountering one language that, as soon as 
they hear it and even tho' they don't understand a word, seems to 
be the most beautiful language possible, and that English people very 
often have this experience with the Welsh language. Thus, it would 
make a lot of sense for him to have based the sounds of Elvish on the 
sounds of Welsh.




From virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 30 20:46:19 2001
From: virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com (virtualworldofhp)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 20:46:19 -0000
Subject: Clueless in Middle Earth (WAS LOTR movie)
In-Reply-To: <a0kqrt+8aub@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0nuer+s4dl@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "cindysphynx" <cindysphynx at h...> wrote:
> I went to see the film last night.  I was totally blown away, as I 
> thought it was magnificent!  

Cindy, Cindy...I now join your ranks under the clueless
seen-movie-but-not-read-the-books order.  It was an absolutely LONG
movie, but it did not drag at all!  Either Tolkein is a genuis
storyteller or Jackson an awesome director...or a nice happy mixture
of both, but I am now and forever drawn into the story and dying to
know what happens to our dear Frodo!
 
> 1.  I let my 7 year old child come along.  Big mistake.  Wrong, 
> wrong, wrong.  Note to self:  young children who go to scary PG-13 
> movies keep their eyes closed the whole time, fall asleep in the 
> theatre, and then sneak into their parents' bed at night.

Even /I/ kept hiding my eyes during some of the orcs scenes.  I said
to my mum afterwards, "I understand that they're big and gross and all
that, but do they really have to do THAT many close-ups?!"
 
> 2.  I have to admit that I had no idea who most of the characters 
> were.  I got Gandolf (and I think Ian McClellan is amazing).  I got 
> Frodo (who I really thought was a 14 year old short person or 
> something until I saw the actor on Leno last night).  I got Sam and 
> the other Hobbits.  I did not get the women *at all.*  I didn't 
> understand the Pretty Boy with the Arrows, or the guy who died.  Who 
> was that Strider fellow?  Is he the same person as Aragorn?  I have 
> resolved to read the book immediately.

I understood most everything except some parts about Gollum and
miscellany about the Ring in general, but I think my mom filled me in.
 Well, and some of the magical creatures' placement in things did have
me a bit confused.  Pretty Boy With Arrows--Legolas...oi, I sure hope
he's in future episodes because he's a cutie! ;-)  I totally went for
him, lol.

> 3.  Uh, how come some of these people were not cast in HP?  Ian 
> McClellan is just way better than Richard Harris.

I kept thinking that throughout the whole movie.  He would be *so*
perfect.

> 4.  OK, those orcs were just way, way too much and over the top.  
> Dang!  I liked the spooky guys on horseback, though, and that 
> music/sound they played whenever they came around was really freaking 
> me out.  I must go read the book.

They totally creeped me out, too.  I think the soundtrack was
spectacular!  

> 5.  Uh, Frodo puts the ring on and the world dissolves or something.  
> I was totally baffled by this.  His sword was magical or something?  
> Why is the Kevlar suit so important, other than just conveniently 
> saving Frodo from the troll?  I must go read the book.

I was a bit lost in this, too.  I couldn't understand while, for the
most part, he seemed to disappear, except during one part where the
dark-dudes COULD see him.  I hypothesize because they also have rings
(originally Man, right?) they can see him.  So, what's the point in
putting on the ring?  I guess the more you "use" it, the more
influence it begins to hold on you.  I dunno...  

> 6.  The troll scene was way too long.  However, this troll was way 
> better than the HP troll, and the visual effects in LotR were 
> substantially better overall.

I agree.  And some of the orc/death scenes were also too long.  I
mean, I get the point already!  The visual effects were AMAZING and
surpass HP anyday.  Now I know why LOTR garnered nominations and HP
did not.  LOTR was a hands-down ten times better movie.

> 8.  The opening LotR scenes were outstanding.  As I said, I knew 
> nothing.  The filmmakers gave me a quickie overview and moved right 
> into the main story.

Especially wonderful for us who haven't read.  Especailly me, because
I tend to get lost in movies SOOOOO easily.  My mom says they don't do
this in the book.  I'm glad I have the background going into it,
because I'd spend the whole time trying to figure it out (as opposed
to just ENJOYING the thing).

> Cindy (who thinks way too many creatures were beheaded in LotR and 
> those goblin things couldn't shoot well enough to hit the side of a 
> barn, but is willing to overlook it)

I thought these were rather funny.  Is Legalos some star-archer of the
elves, or are elves naturally awesome at this.  Did you notice the
goblins/orcs/or ANYone didn't hit a SINGLE person?  How odd.  They
must really stink for such "great warriors".

Dang, now I'm faced with decision of trying (again) to plow through
the LOTR books just so I can know what happens or waiting two years
for the movies.  Darn, darn, darn!

-Megan (who has adamantly refused to read them for so long that it's
now a matter of principle.  Stubborn, I am.)




From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Sun Dec 30 22:43:19 2001
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 22:43:19 -0000
Subject: JK and her *new* husband...
In-Reply-To: <3C2F3D7C.7E9571E6@kingwoodcable.com>
Message-ID: <a0o5a7+euf0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Katze <jdumas at k...> wrote:
> Actually...there was an article on the Leaky Cauldron (posted on 12/19)
> from a Spanish newspaper, that stated the manuscript was done. It
> appears we have conflicting information.

I do follow the Leaky Cauldron, and this item just didn't seem plausible to me, 
especially since the other source (which I believe I also gleaned from  the Leaky 
Cauldron) had a direct quote from a Bloomsbury rep on Dec. 15 saying they 
didn't know when the ms would be delivered.

One thing to remember is that translations in Spanish run about 20 percent 
longer than the same text in English, so the number of pages would be greater -- 
a 700-page book in Spanish might be 500 pages in English.




From dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 30 23:10:51 2001
From: dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com (Elizabeth Sager)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 15:10:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Wood's place (was Confused in Middle Earth)
In-Reply-To: <1009708203.817.78747.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20011230231051.10967.qmail@web20402.mail.yahoo.com>

Cindy wrote:
>Wood really had me believing he is British when he is

>actually from California (according to Leno).

I thought he was from the Glasgow area? Me so confused
:( IMHO I think the cast should remain British, it
gives it the more authentic sound to it (me, being
from America, am constantly disgusted with myself for
imagining the dialogue with an 'American accent'). And
in the movie I think for the most part the actors and
actresses were British (with the obvious exception of
Susan Bones, being Chris Columbus' daughter Eleanor),
except I know that Chris Rankin (Percy Weasley) is
from New Zealand. At least that's listed as the
location of his birth on IMDB.com

Please stop me when I sound stupid *list chucks
various crap at her*

Liz

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From cindysphynx at home.com  Sun Dec 30 23:49:36 2001
From: cindysphynx at home.com (cindysphynx)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 23:49:36 -0000
Subject: JKR and the Marriage
Message-ID: <a0o96g+e1dp@eGroups.com>

Ali wrote (on the main list):

> On the BBC News 24 today, the newsreader said that JK Rowling says 
> she has now finished the fifth book. We can only hope!!
> 

That would be good news, wouldn't it?  It would also mean that, 
rather than having candlelit dinners and midnight strolls, JKR has 
been locked in her office finishing the book, missing out on planning 
her wedding and snuggling with her fiance.

Now I feel bad for complaining about the delay.

Cindy (wondering if the husband-to-be had to sign the mother of all 
prenuptual agreements)




From cindysphynx at home.com  Mon Dec 31 00:01:05 2001
From: cindysphynx at home.com (cindysphynx)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 00:01:05 -0000
Subject: Clueless in Middle Earth (WAS LOTR movie)
In-Reply-To: <a0nuer+s4dl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0o9s1+gq78@eGroups.com>

Megan wrote:

> Cindy, Cindy...I now join your ranks under the clueless
> seen-movie-but-not-read-the-books order.  

Megan, we can't be the only people in our newly founded order.  There 
must be other people who haven't read the books, but they're just not 
willing to admit it.  :-)  We just need a nifty name or acronym to 
entice them to admit to this gap in their educations.  
Maybe "Fellowship of the Celluloid"?

One more observation:  I think the guy who died at the end (gee, I 
already forgot his name) was not a particularly compelling character 
or a good actor.  When the orc hit him with three arrows and he kept 
fighting, I wanted to go onto the screen and finish him off myself.  
I thought the tired old device of shooting someone repeatedly and 
having them rise to fight again went out with the old Monty Python 
movies.  I really, really wanted the orc to shoot him a fourth time, 
right between the eyes to get it over with.  

Also, was there any relationship between Pretty Boy and the Evil 
Wizard who threw Gandolf onto the top of the tower?  They both have 
sleek long blond hair, but maybe it is a coincidence?

Cindy




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 31 00:18:39 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 00:18:39 -0000
Subject: Wood's place (was Confused in Middle Earth)
In-Reply-To: <20011230231051.10967.qmail@web20402.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a0oasv+b232@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Elizabeth Sager <dizzylizzy182 at y...> 
wrote:
> Cindy wrote:
> >Wood really had me believing he is British when he is
> 
> >actually from California (according to Leno).
> 
> I thought he was from the Glasgow area? Me so confused
[snip] 
> And in the movie I think for the most part the actors and
> actresses were British (with the obvious exception of
> Susan Bones, being Chris Columbus' daughter Eleanor),
> except I know that Chris Rankin (Percy Weasley) is
> from New Zealand. At least that's listed as the
> location of his birth on IMDB.com
> 
> Please stop me when I sound stupid *list chucks
> various crap at her*

Um, the "Wood" in question is Elijah Wood, who played Frodo in the 
Fellowship of the Ring.  You seem to be thinking of Sean 
Biggerstaff, who played Oliver Wood in the HP movie.

--Barb





From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon Dec 31 00:24:47 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 00:24:47 -0000
Subject: Clueless in Middle Earth (WAS LOTR movie)
In-Reply-To: <a0kqrt+8aub@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0ob8f+h0du@eGroups.com>

Cindy wrote:

> I also think the HP filmmakers should start looking for non-Brit 
> actors, because Wood really had me believing he is British when he 
is 
> actually from California (according to Leno).  I guess good actors 
> can do good accents.

Yes, I too have now seen FOTR -  good game.

I've always thought that surely most American actors can turn their 
hands to a British accent - the problem in the past is just that 
*Hollywood* didn't realise that Britain is the country it actually 
is, and made sure actors didn't use any dangerously subversive 
knowledge they might acquire on holiday.  It must have taken months 
of coaching to get Dick van Dyke's accent so bad in Mary Poppins - 
but I'm sure his professionalism delivered what his bosses thought 
the public wanted in the end.

> 4.  OK, those orcs were just way, way too much and over the top.  

Yes, I agree.  In the book, because the Uruk-Hai are the product of 
crossing men with Orcs, some of them sre at first mistaken for men in 
Bree.  I think the film makers had a problem, though, as from the 
book description they resemble Orientals - they had to be made to 
look inhuman to avoid the racial overtones which IMO are present in 
the book.  (In the third film they will have to deal with the 
Haradrim - men who are deceived by or serve Sauron, and are black.  
None of the goodies are black.)

> 5.  Uh, Frodo puts the ring on and the world dissolves or 
something.  
> I was totally baffled by this.  

I think there is either inconsistency or development in the books on 
this.  In the early stages (ie Bilbo's stewardship of the ring and 
the years immediately afterwards, putting on the ring makes you 
invisible, but you can still see OK.  On Weathertop, it's night 
anyway, but Frodo doesn't see Strider with the branches very well.  
Later still, on Amon Hen (the end of the film) the ring changes 
Frodo's perception, with some things more visible, others less.  
IIRC, he can sense Sauron's orcs preparing for war across Middle 
Earth, for example.  In later books, the ring's power (or Frodo's 
habituation to it) is such that the normal world is made misty and 
insubstantial when he puts it on.

David, thinking Wood was lucky not to end up playing a Hobbit called 
Biggerstaff...




From virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 31 03:10:01 2001
From: virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com (virtualworldofhp)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 03:10:01 -0000
Subject: Clueless in Middle Earth (WAS LOTR movie)
In-Reply-To: <a0o9s1+gq78@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0oku9+j558@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "cindysphynx" <cindysphynx at h...> wrote:
> Megan wrote:
> 
> > Cindy, Cindy...I now join your ranks under the clueless
> > seen-movie-but-not-read-the-books order.  
> 
> Megan, we can't be the only people in our newly founded order.  There 
> must be other people who haven't read the books, but they're just not 
> willing to admit it.  :-)  We just need a nifty name or acronym to 
> entice them to admit to this gap in their educations.  
> Maybe "Fellowship of the Celluloid"?

Nifty!  I have absolutely balked at reading them all my life.  Today
ALMOST swayed me until I figured out I could get a
brief-but-detailed-enough-to-satisfy-me summary on the internet! 
Rejoice!  Now I at least will know the skeleton of the story which
will satisfy me until I can see it fleshed out on screen. (And all
important--the ending--the part no one can can ever wait to discover)

> One more observation:  I think the guy who died at the end (gee, I 
> already forgot his name) was not a particularly compelling character 
> or a good actor.  When the orc hit him with three arrows and he kept 
> fighting, I wanted to go onto the screen and finish him off myself.  
> I thought the tired old device of shooting someone repeatedly and 
> having them rise to fight again went out with the old Monty Python 
> movies.  I really, really wanted the orc to shoot him a fourth time, 
> right between the eyes to get it over with.

My mom and I were just sitting there saying, "Die already!"  I never
liked him (Boromir) in the first place.  I'm truly terrible at telling
people apart and kept mixing him and Aragorn (right?) together.  Glad
he died because he was kind of whiney.  

> Also, was there any relationship between Pretty Boy and the Evil 
> Wizard who threw Gandolf onto the top of the tower?  They both have 
> sleek long blond hair, but maybe it is a coincidence?

Shall I spoil it for you?  His name is Saruman (right?) and he is
(scroll if you want to know).
.
.
.
.
He is Gandalf's half-brother.  Don't ask me how or why, I just read it.

*is sure millions of Tolkein fans are chucking rotten tomatoes at her
at this very moment, since she is giving away things from a
sacriligious internet-summary!*

-Megan (ducking, also wondering how people can compare LOTR and HP, as
they are clearly completely and utterly different as far as she can tell)

*also wondering how Sauron can have a name in the credits when it is
just a large, gaping fire-eye making "kkkk whaaaaaaaaaa, SCREEEECH"
noises.*




From Zorb17 at aol.com  Mon Dec 31 03:16:21 2001
From: Zorb17 at aol.com (Zorb17 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 22:16:21 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Clueless in Middle Earth (WAS LOTR movie)
Message-ID: <12d.a16717f.29613285@aol.com>

Cindy said:
"One more observation:? I think the guy who died at the end (gee, I 
already forgot his name) was not a particularly compelling character 
or a good actor.? When the orc hit him with three arrows and he kept 
fighting, I wanted to go onto the screen and finish him off myself.? 
I thought the tired old device of shooting someone repeatedly and 
having them rise to fight again went out with the old Monty Python 
movies.? I really, really wanted the orc to shoot him a fourth time, 
right between the eyes to get it over with."

His name is Boromir, and the arrow thing actually happens in the book, IIRC.  
They make 'em tough in Gondor!

And:
"Also, was there any relationship between Pretty Boy and the Evil 
Wizard who threw Gandolf onto the top of the tower?? They both have 
sleek long blond hair, but maybe it is a coincidence?"

Actually, Gandalf is more closely related to Saruman (Evil Wizard) than 
Legolas (Pretty Boy) is.  Legolas is an Elf, while the other two are both 
Wizards.  In Tolkein, Wizards are really a separate race from Men.

David said:
"In the early stages (ie Bilbo's stewardship of the ring and 
the years immediately afterwards, putting on the ring makes you 
invisible, but you can still see OK.? On Weathertop, it's night 
anyway, but Frodo doesn't see Strider with the branches very well.? 
Later still, on Amon Hen (the end of the film) the ring changes 
Frodo's perception, with some things more visible, others less.? 
IIRC, he can sense Sauron's orcs preparing for war across Middle 
Earth, for example.? In later books, the ring's power (or Frodo's 
habituation to it) is such that the normal world is made misty and 
insubstantial when he puts it on."

I'd call it development.  In The Hobbit, the ring is more of an inanimate 
tool, true.  The call to return to its master, I think, isn't as strong yet 
as it will become in LOTR.  When Frodo first inherits the ring, his 
experiences with it are pretty much the same as Bilbo's.  However, unlike 
Bilbo, Frodo receives an injury from a Mordor weapon on Weathertop, and 
that's what changes things, in my mind.  The injury makes him more 
susceptible to the wraith-world, and thus he falls more easily into it when 
using the ring from then on.  Amon Hen is an ancient "seeing spot" (I can't 
for the life of me remember the textual name), and that's why he can see 
things going on far away.


Zorb


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Mon Dec 31 04:00:52 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 15:00:52 +1100
Subject: LOTR: Languages, accents, elven archers, FRATRICIDE
Message-ID: <004601c191af$d3b45640$542bdccb@price>

Rita:
> In one of his essays, Tolkien said something like often people 
have the experience of encountering one language that, as soon as they hear it and even tho' they don't understand a word, seems to be the most beautiful language possible, and that English people very often have this experience with the Welsh language<

(any comments, Dai?) I'm sure I read somewhere which specific languages on which Tolkien based all his fictional ones.  Finnish was definitely one, though I can't remember which.  I think it might have been in the pictorial book they've released with the film (complete with pictures of and comments from each of the main actors)

Cindy:
>Wood really had me believing he is British  

Ahh, this is in the film book thing as well.  Apparently, the idea was for the Men to have American accents, the hobbits English country accents of some sort (not sure which, but happy to be enlightened - was it just me, or did Sam's accent wobble from American to West country or something and back sometimes? If so, couldn't it just have been dubbed over?), the wizards Received Pronunciation English, and the Elves I think some Celto-Finnish hybrid.  When I saw the film, though, it didn't seem that clear-cut.  Pippin was Scottish, surely (though as a fan of Scottish accents I rather liked this), and Frodo sort of southern standard educated English, I thought.  Though I fear all the British listmembers may laugh me out off the list... my British accent identifier is a bit shaky.  Any corrections or comments from them?

Amy Z:
> Weaving isn't British either; he's Australian (and does a flawless American accent, BTW,judging from The Matrix--I'd never have known he wasn't American).  

(Tabouli smiles, a little smugly.  Australians, having been raised in an atmosphere of British and American television, are as a people pretty good at doing accents, even the non-actors among us.  My own standard southern English accent efforts are pretty good IMO, as it's long been the 'educated' English snobbish Australians aspire to, and is hence easily reproduced, though my American attempts need work... rather inconsistent, especially in the vowel department.  Oddly, I find a Southern accent a bit easier than a standard TV west coast-ish accent, probably because it's more distinctive.  I almost always use a Malaysian English accent with my mother.  As for foreign languages, my finest hour was giving a jovial, twirly moustached Air France steward the impression that I was French!  Actually, with my random-ethnicity looks, all I need to do is chuck on a beret, and voila!)

Megan:
> Even /I/ kept hiding my eyes during some of the orcs scenes.  I said
to my mum afterwards, "I understand that they're big and gross and all
that, but do they really have to do THAT many close-ups?!"<

Ha.  Actually, if you've had the misfortune to see his disgusting "Meet the Feebles" (yaaag!) you'll realise that for Peter, he was showing great restraint (and I don't think I'm all that squeamish as a rule).  Think the Muppets crossed with gross-out comedy (I saw it at a party when I was 17, and the boys *loved* it...), e.g. a bunny puppet with what he thinks is 'The Big One' in terms of sexually transmitted diseases going through the movie getting progressively more covered in bursting khaki coloured pustules which spurt fluid all over his dressing mirror...  uuuuug!

>So, what's the point in putting on the ring?

My thoughts exactly (see my review).  There's no way he'll be able to make 'The Hobbit' with that particular interpretation (as Bilbo actually uses the invisibility to do sneaky things), because it renders the wearer incapacitated.

> I thought these were rather funny.  Is Legalos some star-archer of the elves, or are elves naturally awesome at this.<

In most of the fantasy novels I've read (and in Warhammer, a tabletop wargame with miniatures I used to play with a long-ago boyfriend!) elves are always brilliant archers.  (Tabouli reminisces about how her elven units used to shoot from the forests and decimate the forces of the enemy).

Cindy:
> There must be other people who haven't read the books, but they're just not 
willing to admit it.  :-)  We just need a nifty name or acronym to 
entice them to admit to this gap in their educations.  
Maybe "Fellowship of the Celluloid"?

(Tabouli cranks up her acronym muscles again).  How about FR.A.T.R.I.C.I.D.E.  (Fellowship of Rings Avoiding Tolkien Rejectors Introduced Cinematically Into Delightful Escapism)?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Mon Dec 31 09:01:21 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 20:01:21 +1100
Subject: Happy New Year!
Message-ID: <001501c191d9$b8d9d960$e535c2cb@price>

Only about four hours to go to 2002 where I am.  Here's to a 2002 in which OoP gets released as *well* as the CoS movie, in which Richard Harris either resigns in a huff or miraculously develops a twinkle!  I'm off to a New Year's Eve party now... hope all of you have a festive time, wherever you may be!

Tabouli (who feels that the last New Year's Eve of her twenties definitely requires that she wear the knee-high black boots at which her brother looked askance "There's a name for those, you know", he said disapprovingly...)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 31 10:04:33 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 10:04:33 -0000
Subject: Happy New Year!
In-Reply-To: <001501c191d9$b8d9d960$e535c2cb@price>
Message-ID: <a0pd7h+jdba@eGroups.com>

> Tabouli (who feels that the last New Year's Eve of her twenties 
definitely requires that she wear the knee-high black boots at which 
her brother looked askance "There's a name for those, you know", he 
said disapprovingly...)

Tabouli is a Scarlet Woman.

Happy New Year!
Amy
who has no clue what the name for the boots might be




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Dec 31 11:40:15 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 11:40:15 -0000
Subject: The bridal JKR
In-Reply-To: <003501c1914e$ecdd7ea0$f952dccb@price>
Message-ID: <a0piqv+8n3h@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tabouli" <tabouli at u...> wrote:
> I have two parallel reactions to JKR's happy news. <snip!>  
frankly, wouldn't even those of you who find her excessive wealth a 
bit distasteful and her action figures and skateboards prostitution 
rather the money went to JKR than Rupert Murdoch or Bill Gates or 
Richard Branson?

HEAR! HEAR!  One of the main reasons we don't have Sky TV is that I 
try as hard as possible not to line Mardoch's pockets.  For the same 
reason I try not to buy anything owned by Nestle (easier said than 
done), though I must admit that my computer has Windows...sorry...
 
> My other reaction is as a reader, and this one is, alas, less 
generous.  It says (or rather, screams)  WHAT???  So *that's* what 
you've been doing all this time!  Hanging out with Neil on beaches 
and having candlelit dinners when you're MEANT TO BE FINISHING 
OoP!!!  Rip off that veil and pick up that pen, woman!  There are 
children (not to mention several thousand HP4GU members) banging 
their heads on walls and torturing bookshop sales assistants who may 
suffer lifelong trauma if you don't get that manuscript to the 
publisher This Minute!  (who knows, the scars inflicted might 
genuinely turn children to evil...)

Go on, Girl!  Let me hold your coat for you!!
> 
> Grrrzzzngh.
> 
> Tabouli (who is very sleep deprived, and not making much sense, but 
suspects that the longer OoP takes, the more the reader's voice will 
start to dominate)

Let's hope so.  After all, we're the ones who'll be putting more 
millions in JKR's pocket as we trample over little children to get 
our hands of a copy of OoP the minute it is available.

Mary Ann
(who will be keeping her own children well away from the local 
bookshops when OoP does finally come out)




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 31 11:43:39 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 11:43:39 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, Kate/Persephone!
Message-ID: <a0pj1b+2b9m@eGroups.com>

Kate, a.k.a. Persephone, a.k.a. hermitchick 
(hermitchick at crosswinds.net), celebrates her birthday on this final 
day of 2001.  Have a magical day, and may Harry and Draco emerge from 
your cake covered in frosting and little else!

Amy




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 31 13:53:25 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:53:25 -0000
Subject: HP and the Receding Release (was JK and her *new* husband)
In-Reply-To: <a0n7vm+gahb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0pqkl+100ki@eGroups.com>

Barb wrote:

> > Am I delusional or didn't we get some kind of news during the 
summer 
> > that the completed manuscript had been sent to her editor? 

Perhaps you're thinking of this?

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2001_11_04_archive.html

Not the same rumor, but similarly cruel in its hope-raising and 
hope-dashing.

Amy Z
whose New Year resolution is to get a life and enjoy some other books, 
for heaven's sake . . . it's either that or go into the deep-freeze 
'til OoP comes out




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Mon Dec 31 10:54:44 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 10:54:44 EST5EDT
Subject: A very Harry Christmas
Message-ID: <F27A2614@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

Well, I'm finally back to work.  Erg.  Not a good 
Christmas, health-wise.  Ended up in the hospital emergency 
room Christmas night because my temp spiked at 104 and I 
could hardly breath.  But by this past weekend, I was 
feeling much better.  Now I just have a very annoying 
cough.  ANYWAY.....

I got a Harry blanket and Invisibility Cloak Harry figure 
from my brother/sister-in-law (also an Eddie George 
football jersey....YAY!).  From my mother I got two Harry 
ornaments (I got her the Gryffindor CD case).  From one of 
my friends I got another Harry Invisibility Cloak figure 
and a Quidditch shirt and a Harry Potter cookie tin.  And 
from myself I ordered the Brit version of book one.

But the best Harry gift was the Quidditch robe my mother 
made my cousin.  It's GORGEOUS!  It looks just like the 
movie.  Absolutely perfect.  When Katie opened it up, she 
burst into tears and then giggled all day, running around 
with it on.  *sniff*  I'm jealous of a 10 year-old's 
gift.....how pathetic am I?

I was really hoping I'd get the Gryf scarf.  *sigh*  Oh 
well.  Anyone know where I can find one where I don't have 
to spend $75 on eBay?



Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

The most heartbreaking thing about faithful moviegoing
is that awe, beauty and excitement, three of the things
we go to the movies for, are the very things we're 
cheated of the most. The great wonder of "The Lord of the
Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring" is that it bathes us 
in all three, to the point where we remember -- in a 
vague, pleasurably hallucinatory sensation from another 
lifetime -- why we go to the movies in the first place. 



From meboriqua at aol.com  Mon Dec 31 18:24:36 2001
From: meboriqua at aol.com (jenny_ravenclaw)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 18:24:36 -0000
Subject: Harry's Daemon (from Pullman's trilogy)
Message-ID: <a0qah4+sj05@eGroups.com>

Hey Everyone -

I've been reading Pullman's "His Dark Materials" trilogy, and am 
starting _The Amber Spyglass_ today.  There are many fascinating 
things about these books, but the one thing I can't stop thinking 
about is daemons.  I want one - badly.  I envy Lyra for having Pan.  
This brought up the question of what Harry's daemon might be if he 
walked through a window into Pullman's world.  I also wondered about 
Ron and Hermione's daemons too.  So, for those of you who have read 
the Dark Materials trilogy, what do you think?  Please don't talk 
about the third book, though, especially not about what animal Pan 
eventually decides to keep, because I don't know yet.

This question was completely motivated by Amy Z, with whom I had a 
looooong discussion about daemons yesterday and today.  We also talked 
about what our own daemons would be.  Thanks, Amy!

--jenny from ravenclaw, whose daemon would probably be a cat 
******************************************************




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 31 18:39:02 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 18:39:02 -0000
Subject: Gryff scarves (was A very Harry Christmas)
In-Reply-To: <F27A2614@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <a0qbc6+87i2@eGroups.com>

Rachel wrote:

> I was really hoping I'd get the Gryf scarf.  *sigh*  Oh 
> well.  Anyone know where I can find one where I don't have 
> to spend $75 on eBay?

OK, this is getting ridiculous.  Will someone who is within driving 
distance of an H&M please write to me, and Rachel, offlist and take 
orders?  I'll pay you good money for shipping and handling, but the 
*#$% stores absolutely refuse to take a phone order.  Rachel, FYI 
this is a NYC-based store, with branches throughout the Northeast, 
that has scarves that look just like a Gryffindor scarf.  And I want 
one.

Hope you're better soon.  Don't stay up 'til all hours singing along 
with Lawrence Welk (before everyone chimes in to tell me that he's 
dead, I just want to say that I know that.  To me, LW is the original 
Binns and wouldn't let a little thing like postbiological status get 
in his way).

Amy




From pennylin at swbell.net  Mon Dec 31 18:59:47 2001
From: pennylin at swbell.net (plinsenmayer)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 18:59:47 -0000
Subject: Gryff scarves (was A very Harry Christmas)
In-Reply-To: <a0qbc6+87i2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0qcj3+o4jc@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "lupinesque" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
>
> OK, this is getting ridiculous.  Will someone who is within driving
> distance of an H&M please write to me, and Rachel, offlist and take
> orders?  I'll pay you good money for shipping and handling, but the
> *#$% stores absolutely refuse to take a phone order.  Rachel, FYI
> this is a NYC-based store, with branches throughout the Northeast,
> that has scarves that look just like a Gryffindor scarf.  And I want
> one.


I too would love a scarf (though I have precious little need of one 11
mths out of the year in Houston).  I have no idea what H & M stands
for, but I'd love to get in on a mass order.

Penny
(who echoes all of Tabouli's thoughts on Bridal JKR ... the reader
voice is definitely taking over from my end, Tabouli)




From jdumas at kingwoodcable.com  Mon Dec 31 19:46:17 2001
From: jdumas at kingwoodcable.com (Katze)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:46:17 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Gryff scarves (was A very Harry Christmas)
References: <a0qcj3+o4jc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3C30C089.BAE8BC32@kingwoodcable.com>

plinsenmayer wrote:
> 
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "lupinesque" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> >
> > OK, this is getting ridiculous.  Will someone who is within driving
> > distance of an H&M please write to me, and Rachel, offlist and take
> > orders?  I'll pay you good money for shipping and handling, but the
> > *#$% stores absolutely refuse to take a phone order.  Rachel, FYI
> > this is a NYC-based store, with branches throughout the Northeast,
> > that has scarves that look just like a Gryffindor scarf.  And I want
> > one.
> 
> I too would love a scarf (though I have precious little need of one 11
> mths out of the year in Houston).  I have no idea what H & M stands
> for, but I'd love to get in on a mass order.
> 
> Penny
> (who echoes all of Tabouli's thoughts on Bridal JKR ... the reader
> voice is definitely taking over from my end, Tabouli)
> 

What's the name of the store who's selling these (H&M)? As much as I
would like one, I know I don't need one. But I'm curious where we might
find these, cause my sister might want one (though she would probably
want Slytherin and I don't think these exist).

-Katze - who waves at Penny, a fellow Houstonian 8-)



From bray.262 at osu.edu  Mon Dec 31 16:58:39 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 16:58:39 EST5EDT
Subject: Happy New Years, everyone!
Message-ID: <703067FA0@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

Hope everyone has a very safe evening/night.

And here's to a brighter new year for us all.

*raises mug of butterbeer with a Firewater chaser*

To life!

*chugs the one...then the other....*  
*hic!*


Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

The most heartbreaking thing about faithful moviegoing
is that awe, beauty and excitement, three of the things
we go to the movies for, are the very things we're 
cheated of the most. The great wonder of "The Lord of the
Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring" is that it bathes us 
in all three, to the point where we remember -- in a 
vague, pleasurably hallucinatory sensation from another 
lifetime -- why we go to the movies in the first place. 



From dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 31 22:28:56 2001
From: dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com (Elizabeth Sager)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 14:28:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Wood's place (was Confused in Middle Earth)
In-Reply-To: <1009794356.625.7432.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20011231222856.82089.qmail@web20401.mail.yahoo.com>

Barb wrote:
<<Um, the "Wood" in question is Elijah Wood, who
played Frodo in the 
Fellowship of the Ring.  You seem to be thinking of
Sean 
Biggerstaff, who played Oliver Wood in the HP movie.>>

Yes, I was. List may pick up wet noodles at the door
and commence beating immediately.

Liz

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From potterlovingash at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 31 23:15:44 2001
From: potterlovingash at hotmail.com (potterlovingash)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 23:15:44 -0000
Subject: Gryff scarves (was A very Harry Christmas)
In-Reply-To: <a0qbc6+87i2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0qrj0+3rok@eGroups.com>

*won't be much help since I am currently in the desert southwest*

However, since I have proven the evil link to those who received 
Gryff scarfs, let me give a few tips. Those scarfs are a one time 
deal and have completely disappeared from Manhattan never to return. 
To get the ones that I got for Christmas gifts, I had to take a bus 
for two hours into the far regions of Brooklyn (I got horribly lost 
and was afraid I would never get home again) and there I bought all 
seven that were out. Supposedly since this is the newest store in the 
city, they had all of the stock. 

Now, I should be returning to Manhattan the second week of January. I 
promise that I will do another city phone search and if I find a 
hidden stash, I would be more than willing to help out my fellow 
Potterites. 

Happy New Year Everyone!

~Ashley~




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 31 23:55:40 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 15:55:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy New Years, everyone!
In-Reply-To: <703067FA0@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <20011231235540.45501.qmail@web13701.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Rachel Bray <bray.262 at osu.edu> wrote:
> Hope everyone has a very safe evening/night.

The same from all of us here in Revere, Massachusetts
to you Rachel, and everyone on the list! May we all
have a much Happier New Year with more love towards
one another and more understanding of each others
differences. As that oldie but goodie song goes, "What
the world needs now, is love sweet love"! We send out
ours to all of you on the list, well, all the HP
lists! May JK Rowling have a wonderful life too!

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Very
Merry Band of Muggles 100% 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



From alyeskakc at netzero.net  Mon Dec 31 23:57:55 2001
From: alyeskakc at netzero.net (alyeskakc)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 23:57:55 -0000
Subject: Happy New Year!
In-Reply-To: <a0pd7h+jdba@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a0qu23+lfgk@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "lupinesque" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> > Tabouli (who feels that the last New Year's Eve of her twenties 
> definitely requires that she wear the knee-high black boots at 
which 
> her brother looked askance "There's a name for those, you know", he 
> said disapprovingly...)
> 
> Tabouli is a Scarlet Woman.
> 
> Happy New Year!
> Amy
> who has no clue what the name for the boots might be


The knee high boots like that were called Go-Go boots back in the 
late 60's/early 70's. Why because Go-Go dancers used to wear them. I 
used to have a pair of white patent leather ones every year from age 
6 to about 9. They stopped making them when I turned 10 because they 
were no longer considered cool. 

Anyway I hope everyone has a very safe and Happy New Year. Let's hope 
the new year is lacking in lunatics that want to blow things up. Be 
safe out there tonight.

Cheers,
Kristin