In defence of Cassie Claire

[J. L. Matthews]

> Message: 2
>    Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 10:29:50 -0500
>    From: "Michela Ecks" <mecks at prodigy.net>
> Subject: Good Bye & Good Luck
>
> Hey,
>
> I've decided to retreat from the Harry Potter fandom, specifically this
> mailing list if you're recieving this.  To me plagarism is always wrong
and
> tolerance of it offensive no matter the rational.  I would ask that if
list
> mods desub me because I'm about to go out to visit family for the day.
>
> This is mirrored at http://writersu.s5.com/steal.html for your convience.
>
> I feel silly even having to say this but it needs to be said for the odd
> person wandering through who is thinking of
> writing the next epic tale.

I know she's left the fandom now, but I felt obliged to reply.  If you don't
fancy reading a rant, hit delete now.

If you're still with me, then here's a rebuttal from the odd person writing
the next epic tale (<plug>Slytherin Rising, available on ffnet, or for those
of you boycotting it, Yahoo groups</plug>), who has also borrowed from
various pop culture sources before now, although it must be said, never an
entire scene, the sole exception being dialogue taken direct from the canon,
but I think that's allowed in an HP fanfic, and it is necessary to my
series.

Here goes...

First, withdrawal from an entire fandom b/c an author does something you
don't like is extremely petty to say the least.  If it's the reactions of
others you can't stomach, then if it's a small minority, is it so hard to
ignore them?  And if it's a large percentage, maybe they have a point.  If
you are still reading... grow up.

>                        Plagarism is wrong. Plagarism is theft. Please
read.
>                                     by Michela Ecks (Laura Hale)
>                                  mecks at prodigy.net or lhale at niu.edu
>                                     or michela_ecks at hotmail.com
>      Permission is granted to freely distribute this document so long as
the
> document and credit remains intact.
>
> On the night of June 22, 2001, Cassandra Claire's edopus "Draco Sinister"
> and her other stories were removed from fanfiction.net  because one story
> had a substantial passage that was lifted from a book by Pamela Dean.
There
> were insinutations that she had  incorporated large chunks of dialogue
from
> Buffy: The Vampire Slayer, Black Adder and Red Dwarf.  These were, too my
> knowledge, never fully investigated because the Pamela Dean evidence was
> enough to prove that Cassandra Claire had  plagarized.  She was black
> listed.

As a fan of Blackadder and Red Dwarf, and a casual viewer of Buffy, can I
just state that she did not incorporate "large chunks of dialogue".  She
wrote in a few quotes now and again that are recognisable to anyone who's
seen the programmes in question.  And there were copious disclaimers around
to tell those who didn't know that they were quotes.

Admittedly the disclaimers could have been better.  It's not really enough
to say "look out for Buffy, Blackadder and RD refs" as I've found to my cost
before now.  You've really got to say, either before or after the chapter
concerned, which quotes come from where, and CC never really did this.
Seeing as I've not seen a lot of Buffy, there could be massive chunks of it
in there for all I know.  It hasn't ruined the story for me, although the
discovery that the clinical death and resuscitation of Draco appears to be
based on the last episode of series 1 of BTVS has taken the glow off it
somewhat.  Won't stop me reading though.

> Writers University fulls supports and endorses this.  Writers University
> fully supports and endorses any and all fan sites that
> aggreesively seek to prevent, stop or punish known plagarists.
>
> I want to endorse this rationally and on my own at Writers University
> because I'm, to a degree, being raked over the coals for this  incident.

Why, did you lead the blacklist or something?

> Let me start this out by saying that I think plagarism is wrong.
Plagarism
> is theft.  Plagarism is not right.  Plagarism is immoral
> and unethical.  Plagarism in the fannish community is even more deplorable
> for several reasons.  The first is that fan fiction exists  only because
the
> powers that be allow it to exist.  Our fannish activities can stop at any
> time if they do not want us to do them.   Secondly, fan fiction is about
> writing.  It's about community.  It's about belonging.  Some of us belong
by
> sending feedback, putting  up a web site, writing fan fiction.
Communities
> are small.  If you steal from some one in this fandom, the person in the
> other  fandom will know and you'll hear about it.  Plagarizing isn't being
> community minded.  It's being incredibly selfish and putting  yourself
above
> the community.  It's also about giving the community your best that you
can
> offer.  When you plagarize, you are  not giving the community the best
that
> you can offer.
>
> There have been several comments in the Cassandra Claire incident that I
> will now address in regards to plagarism.  They are that plagarism is okay
> because it doen't hurt the original author, that plagrism is okay if you
> disclaim it,

Point one.  Let us define plagiarism here.  And everyone LEARN TO SPELL IT
CORRECTLY!  It's "plagiarise" if you're using UK English, "plagiarize" if
US.

I've been given to understand it is taking another's work and passing it off
as your own, at least that's how my university always defined it.

Please note second part of that definition.  PASSING IT OFF AS ONE'S OWN.
If you disclaim properly, you are not plagiarising because you are admitting
that bit is not yours.

Now that wouldn't stand up in a court of law, I know.  But we are not pro
writers.  We are not doing this for profit, purely for fun.  By definition
fanfic is plagiarism precisely because you're messing around with other
people's stuff.  If you're already using characters that are not yours, in a
setting that is not yours, with plot elements that are not yours, what on
earth is wrong with borrowing one-liners and quotes that are not yours and
weaving them in?  So long as you state where they're from.  So often, it is
not the idea that is original, but what you do with it.  Taking a line from
one source and weaving it into another situation without it looking
contrived and still retaining the humour does take a fair bit of creativity.

 that fan fiction is inherently plagaristic so plagarism is
> okay,

But it is inherently plagiaristic.  You said earlier that the powers that be
can call a halt to fanfiction any time they want to.  Why do you think that
is?  Well, let's define powers that be.  The courts, publishers, authors,
lawyers, anyone who holds copyright in the work being fanficced.  And the
reason they can call a halt to fanfic is because they view it as theft.  The
Harry Potter fanfic community thrives as much as it does only because JKR
doesn't mind it's existence, and Warner Bros appear to be more interested in
their visuals than the actual stories copyright wise.

> Plagarism is not okay if you disclaim it.  I'm affiliated with Bringers,
an
> organization dedicated to the education of and the helping of fans.  A
while
> back, Bringers was going through major reorganization.  They were
dedicated
> to fixing up the site, re-evaluating their stance and redefiing issues.
One
> of the issues brought to the table was the use of disclaimers on the
site...
> you know the ones:"No infringement intended."  This was deemed not a good
> thing.  Why wasn't it viewed as a good thing?  Because the material was
> infringetory and it was deliberately so.  Infringement was intended.
> Infringement was deliberate.  They knew it; I knew it.  We also knew it
was
> hypocrtical to deny the infringing as not intended when it was.  The
> disclaimers were changed to something similar to "These images were  used
> without permission.  The hosting of these images does not signify support
of
> or affilations with Warner Brothers.  This site is not for profit."  It's

a
> much better disclaimer.  They are going to list where all images they have
> are taken from and the copyright information just to be on the safe side
> because it is always better to error on the side of caution.    There have
> been incidents where people have used disclaimers...  I'm thinking of an
> incident with Chelsea Quinn Yarbro where a fan fiction writer sought
> permission to write a Chelsea Quinn Yarbaro derrivative.  Chelsea,
> predictably, said no.  The fan proceeded to publish the story anyway with
a
> disclaimer saying she didn't have (was denied) permission to publish the
> story.  Guess who came knocking down here door?  Chelsea Quinn Yarbro.  It
> cost the author and the Zine publisher a lot of time, money and
frustration.


You just contradicted yourself there.  You are not saying disclaimers don't
make it OK, you are saying that it depends on the type of disclaimer.
Bringers are still plagiarising according to your definition, they've just
made the disclaimer a more accurate one.

The Chelsea Quinn Yarbro thing is a different case entirely.  Here we have a
writer being officially denied permission to work with the material, and
going against it.  That is not the same as CC's actions, where AFAIK, she'd
never been specifically told by JKR, Joss Whedon, Grant/Naylor and Richard
Curtis to stop using their stuff.

> In regards to plagarism in fan fiction, it shouldn't happen.  People
> shouldn't be plagarizing from books and other fan fiction authors.

Since when has CC taken from other fic authors?

They
> shouldn't excuse their plagarism with a disclaimer.  It doesn't forgive
the
> act and most disclaimers fail.  Saying you were inspired by a story by
story
> X by an author whose name you've forgotten and lifting the passage does
not
> forgive the plagarism.  And really, with authors both pro and fan, how
hard
> is it to reach out and ask them if you can incorporate their material as
> your own?  There are many fannish writers who would be flattered and many
> pro authors who would answer you.  Tamora Pierce, Ben Bova, Alan Dean
> Foster, Lawrence Watt Evans, David Drake, Diane Duane...  These are just a
> few of the many authors who have e-mail addresses and who will answer your
> questions.  Ask for permission rather than disclaiming because disclaiming
> doesn't negate the act; it just acknowledges that you committed it.

If we all asked for permission, there'd be no fanfic.  Do you write fanfic?
Did you ask JKR if you could use her characters?  Of course not?  Did any of
us fic writers ask her?  No.


> Fan fiction is not inherently plagaristic.  Plagarizing is not okay in fan
> fiction.  I don't even know where to begin here.  I've been hearing many
> people defending plagarism because they think that fan fiction is
inherently
> plagaritic.  To me, fan fiction is not the retooling of other people's
work
> by doing a search and replace to change names and eye colors.  Fan fiction

> is original fiction
> written by fans of some thing be it a book, television show, movie or
video
> game.  Stories are derived from, that is they use
> characters, setting, people, from the source, other material.  They are
not
> material rewritten.

*coughs*  Some are.  There's some very good and rather original stuff out
there involving a rewrite of canon.  So far, no one's accused it of being
plagiaristic, precisely because the story's been reworked in a way no one's
done before.  In most cases, it's either AU and the plot's been sufficiently
changed to make it different enough to avoid plagiarism charges, or the
canon plot's in the background and the writer's more focused on other
non-canon events going on in the same time-frame.  You couldn't call it
plagiarism though.

Fan fiction is a form of fiction.  Is fiction
> inherently plagaristic?  Fan fiction is written by fans.  Unless you're
> going to argue that fiction is inherently plagaristic...

Ooh!  A logical fallacy!  I love these!  Please explain to me how that
works?  Fanfiction is not just another type of fiction which just happens to
be written by fans of something.  It's fiction relying on someone else's
work for the basis of a large chunk of its composition.  It's a completely
different world from fiction in general.

I just don't
> understand where people are coming from.   Are there similar issues?  Yes.
> Fan fiction can often be a copyright
> violation.  The type of violation though isn't plagarism.  It's the
usurping
> of the the rights of copyright owners to control all
> derivative works based on their material.  Plagarism and rights to
> derivative works are two different things.  Derivative works
> possess originallity.  Plagarism does not.  I really can't think of
anything
> more to say on this subject.

True enough, but you need to define what plagiarism is instead of saying
what it is not.  Because, lousy disclaimering aside, I don't think CC was
intentionally stealing the work of others.

In a way, she's actually done Pamela Dean a favour.  Who had heard of her
before this?  Not me.  Is she a published author or a fic writer or what?
She's probably had more publicity as a result of this than she's ever done
in her life.

> Popularity and the amount of plagarism doesn't negate the act of
plagarism.
> It isn't an excuse to plagarize.  There are many very famous people who do
> very stupid things.  Think Eminem, Charles Downey Junior, Scottie Pippen,
> Cal Ripken Jr.  The list of stupid celebs goes on and on and on.  These
> celebs all have their day in court.  The police don't say "Sorry Pip man,
> you're famous and I know the law says no carrying of concealed weapons but
> hey, you're famous so let's just leave this one between you and me eh?"
It
> does not work that way.    If the police acted that way, those police
might
> find themselves up before Personal Affaires, ethics board, the police
chief.
> They would find those police negligent.  If you do the crime and you're
> found guilty, you do the time no manner how famous you are.  Fame doesn't
> negate the act.  The person shouldn't be let off the hook because they
have
> a name or face people recognize.

We are not excusing her because she is famous.  We are excusing her because
we still think her work has validity and originality, unauthorised borrowing
aside.

The situations you compare are totally different in nature.  Eminem getting
let off for drug trafficking and gun carrying because of his fame is wrong
because the fame is irrelevant to the matter in hand.

CC's offence, on the other hand, is intimately bound up with her fame and
the reason for it - her writing.  I think you'll find her defendants are not
saying that "but it's Cassie!  You can't do Cassie for plagiarism, she's too
famous!"  Rather, we are saying "We think she was unfairly treated by ffnet,
and we are going to read her work regardless, because we think it's still
original enough for us."

A better analogy would have been the real situation of Eminem getting sued
by his mother for defamatory remarks in his records - Eminem fans still
flock to buy his records regardless.

> Plagarism does not equate with creativity.  No matter what some one tells
> me, I will not buy into this argument that plagarism is creative.
Plagarism
> by definition is the lifting of and theft of other people's creative
> property.  It's the taking of other people's creative efforts and sticking
> your name on them.  That is what plagarism, in an evironment where it's
> fiction that's being stolen, is.  Let me repeat that: plagarism is the
> stealing of other people's creative efforts.  Where does originallity of
the
> author who plagarized come in?  It doesn't.  The parts the author
plagarized
> are not creative or original.  That credit should be given to the original
> author.  On God Awful Fan Fiction's message board, a poster mentioned a
> story where the author took line for line a scene from Babylon 5 and
plopped
> it down in the middle of an X-Files story.  The section was not credited.
> The author wasn't creative.  jms, the creator of Babylon 5 was.  The
author
> recognized this else they wouldn't have stolen the section.

I don't think CC regularly goes out and takes line by line entire scenes
from other works.  When she does quote directly, she usually says that there
are quotes from other fandoms in there, although I do agree she should say
which ones and where they're from.  This incident was probably down more to
oversight than intent and could have been sorted out much more
diplomatically.


Is an author
> creative after they've been caught stealing?  The answer is maybe...
leaning
> towards no.  The thing is, once you've been caught plagarizing, all your
> work becomes circumspect.  Cassandra Claire was caught plagarizing by the
> staff at FanFiction.Net and people sing her praises saying how creative
she
> is. I'm left to sit and stew in my own juices.  I sit and go "No, she
isn't
> creative.  She stole from other creative people."  I also become
> circumspect.  I will not be able to read anything by Cassandra Claire
> without asking myself if I'm really reading her own work or if I'm reading

> something she's changed, something she's stolen...  something she is
passing
> off as original fan fiction that isn't original at all.  Cassandra lacked
> the creativity, indeed the finnesse, to rework and reword her story so
that
> you couldn't identify it from the original.  She lacked the creativty to
> totally remake and remold an idea of someone else's into an original
> Cassandra Claire.  What she didn't wasn't original.  It wasn't creative.
> Plagarism isn't creative.

No.  CC was creative.  Think why DD and DS became so popular.  Had large
amounts been taken from other sources, they would have languished.  But they
didn't.

They have their own plotlines.  A fair few original gags.  And most of all,
character development that is far and away unique.

Who was the first, the very first, to take an evil character from the books
and turn him into one of the good guys?  Cassie.  Who did it without
destroying his personality, and many would say, improved it?  Cassie.  Who
did it convincingly?  Cassie.

Anyone who says CC is not creative has clearly not read Draco Dormiens.  It
inspired me to start writing (among other things).  I can't say my own stuff
doesn't owe a debt to it.  And I doubt I'm the only one.

Right, that's my input on the whole thing.  A word to all writers - if you
decide to reference anything SAY SO.  Don't assume everyone will recognise
the source.  I got stung by that myself once - I got round it by challenging
my readers to spot them, then revealing the answers next chapter.   Seems to
work plus it's fun.

A devoted Draco fan,

J. L. Matthews


"The sun is out, the birds are singing, Slytherin are leading the
championship and
Professor Snape hasn't got a good word to say about anyone. That to me is
normality."

- Deanna Tyler, Slytherin Rising 3