[HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Cato

[Jen Faulkner]

On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, John Walton wrote:

> "Family Values" a la Genghis Khan, sure. The man makes Maggie
> Thatcher and Ronnie Reagan look like Lucy and Desi, fer chrissakes.
> Maggie may have sunk the Belgrano -- Cato annihilated an entire
> city-state (Carthage), plowed up all their fields and sowed the
> ground with salt so they couldn't grow anything!

Now, now, John, be fair. *g* Cato was by all accounts very good to his
own family (though his treatment of slaves was callous, to say the
least) -- and the destruction of Carthage wasn't *entirely* his fault.  
Yes, he advocated said destruction (at every possible opportunity,
delenda est Carthago *g*), but he was dead at the actual end of the war
(146; Cato died, I believe, in 149).  The burning to the ground and
sowing with salt were on Scipio's initiative, despite his tears; it's
not completely fair to blame that on Cato.

Cato had what could be considered good reasons for his opposition to
Carthage...  it would've continued to be a threat to Rome, had it been
allowed to continue rebuilding, and it was close (as Cato's display with
the fig illustrated).  Cato wasn't acting out of an unreasoning desire
for war, or a hatred of Carthaginians per se; his hawkish calls for war
didn't begin until after he was part of a delegation to Carthage and
observed that the city was not as put down as a defeated enemy should be
-- they were gathering weapons (for war against another state in North
Africa) and resuming (quite profitable) trade.  He was acting in
accordance with the precept of dejectis parcere, debellare superbos
(spare the subdued, but fight completely the proud).

(I must say, if Cato were alive now, I wouldn't be able to stand
him.  Somehow, it's much easier to like a Great Dead White Male of the
terribly conservative, almost reactionary, persuasion, when they are
2000 years dead.  He probably is quite similar to any number of
political figures who(se viewpoints) I abhor.  But the cabbages!  How
could anyone who wrote something so cute be bad, hmm?)

> "Opposed to learning Greek"? IIRC he wanted to exterminate every Greek on
> the planet. I'm sure Adolf Hitler had a picture of Cato on his bedside.

Oh dear, no, I don't think Cato ever went that far.  Definitely didn't
advocate genocide.  (In fact, it was on his (grudging) recommendation
that the Achaean hostages were allowed to return home -- this would be
the anecdote that he, when asked to speak to the Senate on whether the
Achaean hostages should be repatriated, said, "Why should it concern us
whether a bunch of old Greeks are buried here or in Greece?"  Of course,
it mattered a great deal where they were buried, and they weren't *all*
on the brink of death or anything.)  Supposedly he even went on himself
to learn Greek pretty well in his old age, despite his stated distaste
for Greek learning, particularly philosophy (Plutarch has any number of
nasty things he said about Greek philosophers, particulalry
Socrates).  I'm sure he believed that the Romans were superior to the
Greeks, but that's a far cry from advocating genocide... or having an
overarching racial theory.

(This will be my last Classics post for the nonce, I promise.  
Apologies for the *massive* non HP-relatedness.)

--jen :)

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