From rvotaw at i-55.com Thu Aug 1 02:58:40 2002 From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw) Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 21:58:40 -0500 Subject: How I celebrated Harry's birthday Message-ID: <009701c23907$57f62a60$17a0cdd1@istu757> Well, as the title says, I thought something notable should be done on Harry's birthday. So I bought the Lego Hogwarts castle. I can't send Harry a present, so I might as well get one for myself. My Harry Potter lego collection is nearly complete. I'm only missing three things now; Gringotts Bank, Flying Lessons, and Diagon Ally shops. Also, Toys R Us just got in the newer version of the Bertie Botts beans (blue bag), can't wait to try the spinach one. Richelle ------------------------------------ Richelle R. Votaw 1st grade teacher Kentwood Elementary ------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From s_ings at yahoo.com Thu Aug 1 12:17:48 2002 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 08:17:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Forgot a birthday! Message-ID: <20020801121748.50187.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com> Bad, bad, birthday Elf *slams ears in oven door* Don't stop the party, I forgot a birthday. Ken shares a birthday with JKR and Harry and all the other July 31 honourees. Birthday owls, belated as they are, may be sent care of this list or directly to Ken at: ken.kuller at veritas.com Ken, my sincere apologies for having overlooked your birthday. I hope the day was wonderful and brought everything you hoped for. Belated Happy Birthday, Ken! Sheryll ===== "We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times." blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26 ______________________________________________________________________ Post your ad for free now! http://personals.yahoo.ca From ken.kuller at veritas.com Thu Aug 1 13:28:10 2002 From: ken.kuller at veritas.com (ken_kuller) Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 13:28:10 -0000 Subject: Birthdays In-Reply-To: <20020801121748.50187.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: There is no reason to be so hard on yourself, Sheryll! Magic folk and Muggles alike have been forgetting about my birthday for many years. (They say that birthdays are good for you. The more you have, the longer you live!) I used a vacation day from work, which I spent reading library books to my kids, and then taking them to Camp Snoopy. This was a relatively inexpensive outing; we spent only 9 Galleons for rides and lunch. (My wallet got off easy this time!) My kids, tummy, and wallet all went home tired and happy. Several owls also delivered assorted birthday greetings. I think only Harry could have been happier, provided that he spent his 15th birthday with the Weasleys. --- Ken Kuller --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Sheryll Townsend wrote: > Bad, bad, birthday Elf *slams ears in oven door* > > Don't stop the party, I forgot a birthday. > > Ken shares a birthday with JKR and Harry and all the > other July 31 honourees. Birthday owls, belated as > they are, may be sent care of this list or directly to > Ken at: ken.kuller at v... > > Ken, my sincere apologies for having overlooked your > birthday. I hope the day was wonderful and brought > everything you hoped for. > > Belated Happy Birthday, Ken! > > Sheryll > > ===== > "We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times." > blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26 > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Post your ad for free now! http://personals.yahoo.ca From dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 1 14:25:50 2002 From: dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com (Elizabeth Sager) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 07:25:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Birthday celebration in progress! In-Reply-To: <1028210643.382.98325.m12@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: <20020801142550.35414.qmail@web40014.mail.yahoo.com> << Come on in everyone, join the party. The streamers have been hung, the balloons are blown up, the cake is waiting and there's a huge side table loaded with food. You all know why we've celebrating today. Harry Potter and J.K. Rowling are having birthdays! Without them, we likely wouldn't have found each other or shared the joy and fun that these lists and others have brought us. I've been around HPFGU for two years and have seen it grow and blossom, all thanks to our shared appreciation JKR and the world she's created. The fact that so many of us have come together from such diverse backgrounds and managed to keep this list growing is a true reason to celebrate. Help yourself to the food and join the celebration!>> Woohoo! *pops the cork off a butter beer and sprays everyone with it* Liz __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 1 17:45:05 2002 From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda the Witch) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 10:45:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Forgot Ken's Birthday! In-Reply-To: <20020801121748.50187.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020801174505.18628.qmail@web13701.mail.yahoo.com> Sheryll Townsend wrote: Bad, bad, birthday Elf *slams ears in oven door* Don't stop the party, I forgot a birthday. Ken shares a birthday with JKR and Harry and all the other July 31 honourees. ===== Let the Party still party on! HAPPY BIRTHDAY KEN! You lucky person you! Hope you had a great time and still are having one! I have no doubt that you will get more emails! Hope you got lots of HP stuff! We toast you a day late but the party hasn't stopped! Schnoogles, Wanda the Witch of Revere,Massachusetts and Her Very Merry Band of Muggles 100%! "When you come to the edge of all the light you know, and are about to step off into the darkness of the unknown, faith is knowing one of two things will happen; There will be something solid to stand on, or you will be taught how to fly."......Unknown. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lilac_bearry at yahoo.com Thu Aug 1 20:48:53 2002 From: lilac_bearry at yahoo.com (Lilac) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 13:48:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Halloween Scare Message-ID: <20020801204853.23859.qmail@web40312.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, Jennifer! I know...It's pretty unbelievable that he survived...especially in 1968. He was barely over a pound when he was born. He basically spent his first year in and out of the hospital (of course). They would "give" him oxygen by placing an oxygen mask on the bed by his head on his right side so that the oxygen would flow to him. He has some hearing loss and sight loss on his right side because of this, but basically everything else is normal or above normal! He wasn't gaining weight for a while. Back then, they didn't believe too much in Mother's milk being the best for babies, so they gave my Mother-in-law a pill to "dry up" her milk without her consent (they also thought because he was so small, he wouldn't be able to "latch on")! So , he was bottle fed, but not gaining weight. They finally figured out that the hole in the nipple was too small, so they enlarged it and he finally gained weight because he wasn't working so hard. Anyhoo, have a good day! Lilac =) From: Subject: Re: Halloween Scare First of all, Happy Belated Birthday to your husband! How in the world did he make it, coming out at only 28 weeks in 1960?! Wow, he really is your miracle! LOL at how your husband sees his early arrival, Jennifer ----- Original Message ----- From: Lilac To: ot chatter Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:22 PM Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Halloween Scare Hi, everyone! I'm Lilac, and new to the OT chatter, but not-so-new to HGFGU. There were some messages about Halloween and birthdays. I've got a bit of a Halloween/Birthday story for you... My husband's due date was October 31st, but he was born 3 MONTHS EARLY on July 28th, 1968. So, he likes to say "I was supposed to be a spook on Halloween, but I ended up spooking the hell out of everyone!" He was born outside the hospital with my mother-in-law catching him before he hit the sidewalk. She tells it better than I do (she was there, of course. I wasn't even born yet...). Anyway, I'm sure glad he's here and he's a miracle to me! Lilac =) ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ "Tut, tut --- hardly any of you remembered that my favorite color is *lilac*. I say so in Year with the Yeti." --Gilderoy Lockhart, COS --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jenw74 at hotmail.com Fri Aug 2 04:51:50 2002 From: jenw74 at hotmail.com (jenw74 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 23:51:50 -0500 Subject: Question References: <20020801204853.23859.qmail@web40312.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: How would everyone feel if Ron or Hermione were to die in anytime between books 5-7. This is not directly related to canon, so I can't ask this on the main list. I know for me, those two are my favorite characters. Well, the whole trio actually. If they died I would feel as if a best friend has died. Yes I know, how sad is that?! Though, I know this is possible, with JKR's statement about future books being somwhat darker. If one of the trio died, would you feel happy, angry, sad, what? Explain why... Jennifer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rvotaw at i-55.com Fri Aug 2 13:18:54 2002 From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 08:18:54 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Question References: <20020801204853.23859.qmail@web40312.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002401c23a27$277352c0$aaa2cdd1@istu757> > How would everyone feel if Ron or Hermione were to die in anytime between books 5-7. This is not directly related to canon, so I can't ask this on the main list. > > I know for me, those two are my favorite characters. Well, the whole trio actually. If they died I would feel as if a best friend has died. Yes I know, how sad is that?! Well, Hermione I'd be surprised if she died. I don't know, it just doesn't seem like it could accomplish much. I love Hermione, don't get me wrong. She's just more use alive. However, I would not be surprised at all if Ron dies in the last book in something parallel to the first book where he sacrifices himself so that Harry can face and defeat Voldemort. Only this time around it's worse than just a stone arm wacking you over the head, which couldn't felt too good. My mom, on the other hand, thinks Hermione will die simply because nobody seems to think she will. Everybody worries over Ron sacrificing himself and Harry dying so that all mankind can be saved, but not much is said (by fans) about Hermione dying. For whatever that's worth. If Ron dies I can live with it. I'd be sad, sure. But I can forsee it. However, if Harry dies I will be furious. Richelle From ken.kuller at veritas.com Fri Aug 2 13:27:33 2002 From: ken.kuller at veritas.com (Ken Kuller) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 08:27:33 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Question Message-ID: At first, I saw Ron and Hermoine as "cardboard" characters: each served specific functions. * If there is any kind of background information Harry needs, Hermoine either knows it or finds out for him. I just can't see Hermoine dying in either book 5 or book 6. * Ron is the perfect sidekick. He never comes up with any big ideas of his own. Rather, he gets excited about Harry's news, and acts in a supporting role. Being from a Wizarding family, he knows how to pull strings to help Harry out. By the time I got to GoF, this view of Harry's world shattered. Ron became angry with Harry, and Hermoine was unable to help with his tasks. (OK, she helped him learn the summoning charm. But he had already decided how he was going to work the problem by then.) And given the final outcome, she was unable to see the big picture and either warn Harry off, or prepare him for his big showdown. One more big fight with Ron, and Harry loses his contact with the Wizarding world--about which he is still quite naive. Without that contact, how will he learn about things they don't teach in school, like floo powder or the Chudley Cannons? Ron's death could cement the relationship between Harry and the Weasley family. That's much more probable than developing any kind of meaningful relationship with Arabella Figg or Gramma Longbottom. I think that Arthur Weasley is going to be promoted to Minister of Magic. (What a great connection for Harry!) I'm also a fan of Fred and George, neither of whom will be at Hogwarts in book 5. So if Ron's going to die anyway, I kinda' hope it's going to happen in book 5. But then again, I don't really *want* him to die. Ken Kuller -----Original Message----- From: jenw74 at hotmail.com [mailto:jenw74 at hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 11:52 PM To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Question How would everyone feel if Ron or Hermione were to die in anytime between books 5-7. This is not directly related to canon, so I can't ask this on the main list. I know for me, those two are my favorite characters. Well, the whole trio actually. If they died I would feel as if a best friend has died. Yes I know, how sad is that?! Though, I know this is possible, with JKR's statement about future books being somwhat darker. If one of the trio died, would you feel happy, angry, sad, what? Explain why... Jennifer From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 2 14:03:30 2002 From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda the Witch) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 07:03:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020802140330.34278.qmail@web13705.mail.yahoo.com> jenw74 at hotmail.com wrote: How would everyone feel if Ron or Hermione were to die in anytime between books 5-7. This is not directly related to canon, so I can't ask this on the main list. I know for me, those two are my favorite characters. Well, the whole trio actually. If they died I would feel as if a best friend has died. Yes I know, how sad is that?! Well, we would be very upset! My muggles love the trio! JKRowling has been working towards that darker side with each book! There was a really darker side in book 4 GoF! Since reading these books, we see a trio of friends working out a mystery or some other plot in other movies and books! We watch Halloween specials all year! We just watched The Halloween Tree, and we all kept saying how this one is like Harry and the others! We just have to wait and find out what she is plotting in her other books! Nail biting waiting! Schnoogles, Wanda the Witch of Revere,Massachusetts and Her Very Merry Band of Muggles 100% --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From s_ings at yahoo.com Fri Aug 2 20:04:34 2002 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 16:04:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Happy Birthday, Amber! Message-ID: <20020802200434.81798.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com> *re-decorates the room and brings yet another cake to the side table* Today's birthday honouree is Amber. Her owls can be sent care of this list. I hope your day is filled with joy and much magic. Everyone, join me in raising a glass of butterbeer. Happy Birthday, Amber! Sheryll ===== "We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times." blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26 ______________________________________________________________________ Post your ad for free now! http://personals.yahoo.ca From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 2 20:10:10 2002 From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda the Witch) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 13:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Birthday, Amber! In-Reply-To: <20020802200434.81798.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020802201010.26202.qmail@web13708.mail.yahoo.com> Sheryll Townsend wrote: Today's birthday honouree is Amber. Her owls can be sent care of this list. Everyone, join me in raising a glass of butterbeer. Happy Birthday, Amber! Sheryll ===== This party list is ongoing! All right! We join in with Sheryll and toast a big mug of butterbeer to Amber! Hope she gets lots of goodies to include a HP one in there too! The magic is going strong with all these Birthdays! HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO AMBER! Schnoogles, Wanda the Witch ofRevere,Massachusetts and Her Very Merry Band of Muggles 100%! "When you come to the edge of all the light you know, and are about to step off into the darkness of the unknown, faith is knowing one of two things will happen; There will be something solid to stand on, or you will be taught how to fly."......Unknown. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jenw74 at hotmail.com Fri Aug 2 20:25:08 2002 From: jenw74 at hotmail.com (jenw74 at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 15:25:08 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Birthday, Amber! References: <20020802201010.26202.qmail@web13708.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Happy Birthday, Amber! May you enjoy your day! Jennifer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From darkstar_2814 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 2 21:33:55 2002 From: darkstar_2814 at yahoo.com (darkstar_2814) Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 21:33:55 -0000 Subject: Teachers' bloodlines Message-ID: It's just something I got to thinking about. We all know that Filch is a Squib. But what about the other teachers? Based on Snape's attitude, he's probably pure-blooded, whereas Dumbledore, due to his acceptance of Muggles, could be pure-blooded, half-n-half, or Muggle- born. Flitwick, on the other hand - well, is he a little person, zapped with a Shrinking Spell or what? What about some of the others? Jack ----------- "Fudge, Packer?" - James Humphrey, _Cannibal: The Musical_ From lupinesque at yahoo.com Sat Aug 3 02:58:42 2002 From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (lupinesque) Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 02:58:42 -0000 Subject: Happy Birthday, Amber! In-Reply-To: <20020802200434.81798.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: the birthday elf > *re-decorates the room and brings yet another cake to > the side table* Yum! I just love cybercalories. All these cakes and no weight gain. Happy happy happy, Amber! Amy From katzefan at yahoo.com Sat Aug 3 04:38:57 2002 From: katzefan at yahoo.com (katzefan) Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 04:38:57 -0000 Subject: Teachers' bloodlines In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "darkstar_2814" < darkstar_2814 at y...> wrote: > It's just something I got to thinking about. We all know that >Filch is a Squib. But what about the other teachers? Based on >Snape's attitude, he's probably pure-blooded, whereas >Dumbledore, due to his acceptance of Muggles, could be pure- >blooded, half-n-half, or Muggle- born. Flitwick, on the other >hand - well, is he a little person, zapped with a Shrinking Spell >or what? What about some of the others? > > Jack I wonder if Flitwick might not be part (or all) elf. The impression I got from CoS is that Dobby, at least, is smaller than Harry ("Harry ... ushered Dobby back onto the bed, where he sat hiccoughing, looking like a large and very ugly doll.") Or could he perhaps be part goblin...? Most of the goblins at Gringott's appeared to be roughly the same height as Flitwick. I don't think Snape is necessarily pure-blood; I don't recall that he himself ever says anything one way or the other on the subject (unlike Draco, who says plenty). There's been some speculation that at least some of Snape's attitude may be a 'front' for when he will have to go back to Voldemort (as he appears to be doing at the end of GoF) and convince Voldemort that he has always been a supporter who has been merely biding his time. Katzefan From darkstar_2814 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 3 12:46:52 2002 From: darkstar_2814 at yahoo.com (darkstar_2814) Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 12:46:52 -0000 Subject: Teachers' bloodlines In-Reply-To: Message-ID: But what about some of the other teachers? Hagrid, I think, is Muggle-born (in a manner of speaking), but I'm not sure about some of the others. From active at myoffice.net.au Sun Aug 4 01:41:25 2002 From: active at myoffice.net.au (tx031) Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 01:41:25 -0000 Subject: RE Happy Birthday Message-ID: Yes how embarassing to have forgotten JKR Hopefully she does not celebrate too much because we need hjer to finish the next book ! From catlady at wicca.net Sun Aug 4 04:09:36 2002 From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles) Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 04:09:36 -0000 Subject: Teachers' bloodlines In-Reply-To: Message-ID: By the way, I grovel over not having e-mailed birthday hugs and kisses to pengolodh_sc, Lilac's husband, darrin, and all the other Leo brithday people. --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "darkstar_2814" wrote: > But what about some of the other teachers? Hagrid, I think, is > Muggle-born (in a manner of speaking), but I'm not sure about some > of the others. I feel *sure* that Hagrid is not Muggle-born! At least ONE of his parents was a magical person: his mother the giantess. And I have a vague recollection that the photograph of Hagrid at age 11 with his father sitting on his shoulder (which book is that?) described his father as 'a wizard with beetle-black eyes like Hagrid's", so both of his parents were magical people. Anyway, how often does a Muggle even meet a giant, let alone marry one? I feel *sure* that Dumbledore is not Muggle-born (at least, not known to be Muggle-born, and he isn't the type to keep it secret) or the Malfoys would have called him "Mudblood" rather than mere "Muggle-lover" when they were insulting him. I do not believe the theory that Dumbledore is an oversized or transfigured House Elf and that is why the Mirror of Erised showed SOCKS as his heart's desire, and I don't believe he's half-House Elf either. I personally feel that all the teachers had two magical people for parents, even if one of the magical people was non-human (as Hagrid's mother and possibly one of Flitwick's parents ... and maybe Lockhart was half-Veela), even if one or both of their witch/wizard parents were Muggle-born. On the one hand, surely Dumbledore would be eager to hire a Muggle-born teacher because of his beliefs; on the other hand, which teacher(s) have ever been shown doing anything to suggest that they are very familiar with Muggle life? From chetah27 at hotmail.com Sun Aug 4 05:03:42 2002 From: chetah27 at hotmail.com (aldrea279) Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 05:03:42 -0000 Subject: I'm going away for a week... Message-ID: Not that I want to. I'm still waay behind both here and on the Main List from my three-day weekend excursion(from a swim meet like it is this time). But I'm going to be gone all the same. I know this list is huge and that I probably won't be missed, but I just want to explain why messages that are a week or so old might be getting replied to by me when I return. Because I don't want to miss any of the interesting discussions that take place here, so when I get back I'll probably try to catch up without missing messages for awhile. Maybe, lol, we'll see how impossible that is. =P Where am I going? Off on a two-day drive to swim in the Junior Olympics. A five day meet, and I only swim for...well, I know two days. I have yet to find out how many relays I'm doing, so I'll see on what day I swim those when I get here. But it's really not that big of a thing, I don't feel like I deserve to go(and if you knew all the details...*sighs*) but I'm going all the same. I'll get dead last in the two events I'm swimming(and even though my mom gives me all that blah-blah-blah about with that attitude, I won't win anyways, I really don't want to get my hopes up like I usually do. I've done that before with competitions, and it doesn't work for me.), but maybe I have a shot of getting a nice big medal in any relays I'll be able to swim. Who knows, I did that two years ago and I have a big 'ol shiny silver medal in my room. Anyways, as I never posted a sort of intro message, I'll try a bit of it now. I'm fifteen, female, and living in Arkansas. I picked up the Harry Potter books just in the beginning of this year. I wasn't reading any other books at the time, and I decided to see just what the big hype was about. And, of course, I couldn't put the book down. Infact, I sped through them all in less than a week. Did the same thing when I re-read them shortly after. ~Aldrea, trying to quickly get songs so as to burn a CD for the very very long trip ahead of her. From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 4 16:12:30 2002 From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda the Witch) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 09:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] I'm going away for a week... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020804161230.40054.qmail@web13706.mail.yahoo.com> aldrea279 wrote: Not that I want to. I'm still waay behind both here and on the Main List from my three-day weekend excursion(from a swim meet like it is this time). But I'm going to be gone all the same. You have fun and just enjoy your awim meet! Hope you win! Have a nice drive there too! Schnoogles, Wanda the Witch of Revere,Massachusetts and Her Very Merry Band of Muggles 100%! "When you come to the edge of all the light you know, and are about to step off into the darkness of the unknown, faith is knowing one of two things will happen; There will be something solid to stand on, or you will be taught how to fly."......Unknown. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jenw74 at hotmail.com Sun Aug 4 22:21:27 2002 From: jenw74 at hotmail.com (jenw74 at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 17:21:27 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] I'm going away for a week... References: Message-ID: Aldrea said.... >Where am I going? Off on a two-day drive >to swim in the Junior Olympics. A five day meet, and I only swim for...well, I know two days. I have yet to find out how many relays I'm doing, so I'll see on what day I swim those when I get here. But it's really not that big of a thing, I don't feel like I deserve to go(and if you knew all the details...*sighs*) but I'm going all the same. I'll get dead last in the two events I'm swimming(and even though my mom gives me all that blah-blah-blah about with that attitude, I won't win anyways, I really don't want to get my hopes up like I usually do. I've done that before with competitions, and it doesn't work for me.), but maybe I have a shot of getting a nice big medal in any relays I'll be able to swim. Who knows, I did that two years ago and I have a big 'ol shiny silver medal in my room. Anyways, as I never posted a sort of intro message, I'll try a bit of it now. I'm fifteen, female, and living in Arkansas. I picked up the Harry Potter books just in the beginning of this year. I wasn't reading any other books at the time, and I decided to see just what the big hype was about. And, of course, I couldn't put the book down. Infact, I sped through them all in less than a week. Did the same thing when I re-read them shortly after. >>~Aldrea, trying to quickly get songs so as to burn a CD for the very very long trip ahead of her. Hi! I am somewhat new to this myself, starting to read Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone during Thanksgiving Weekend(I nabbed the book from my little sister who checked it out at her school library!) Then when she and my sister got the rest of the books for Christmas, I devoured them within a week as well! Good luck on your swim meet! I hope you enjoy yourself, no matter how you place. Oh and you can try to get the songs from the Harry Potter soundtrack burned, if you don't have that. That is one of the cd's I have permanently stuck in my cd player. Great music! Jennifer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Mon Aug 5 07:29:49 2002 From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com) Date: 5 Aug 2002 07:29:49 -0000 Subject: Poll results for HPFGU-OTChatter Message-ID: <1028532589.23.50127.m10@yahoogroups.com> The following HPFGU-OTChatter poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Which Weasley are you like in appearance and attitude? CHOICES AND RESULTS - Arthur, 2 votes, 11.11% - Molly, 6 votes, 33.33% - Bill, 3 votes, 16.67% - Charlie, 0 votes, 0.00% - Percy, 1 votes, 5.56% - Fred/George, 0 votes, 0.00% - Ron, 3 votes, 16.67% - Ginny, 3 votes, 16.67% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From tabouli at unite.com.au Mon Aug 5 15:18:01 2002 From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 01:18:01 +1000 Subject: And finally to Philip and his Dark Materials Message-ID: <001601c23c93$4b09fcc0$807032d2@price> Just finished reading the 'His Dark Materials' trilogy by Philip Pullman, as members of this list have been urging me to for months. Well well. Interesting. Very imaginative. I'll have to search the archives for the long ago discussion of them. A few musings, though... ...I think comparisons between the HP books and the trilogy are pretty meaningless. They're different categories of book, IMO. The authors are aiming at such different effects it's silly to try to argue for one being "better" than another - people will end up arguing for the genre they prefer (Pullman clearly aiming at something much more detailed and serious than JKR, who is being light and playful). A second musing I had while nearing the end of the second book was where are the book burning protesters? Surely the ilk who want to decry HP as corrupting the minds of the young and steering them towards Satan would have *major* problems with the philosophy he invented, which *spells out* a subversive position on Christianity. I suppose there may be some objectors out there, but on nothing like the same scale. Is it just that HP is much more digestible and accessible (not to mention insanely), and therefore far more "dangerous"? Is it HP waves witches and wizards in people's faces in Chapter 1 of PS/SS, where they're really obvious, whereas you actually have to look closely at Pullman and read to the end of Book 2 to find the sinister subversions? Is it that Pullman requires too sophisticated a reading level to endanger the minds of those vulnerable to His Dark Messages (or those who seize upon those things)? Hmmm... Tabouli. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From greywolf1 at jazzfree.com Mon Aug 5 15:42:09 2002 From: greywolf1 at jazzfree.com (grey_wolf_c) Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 15:42:09 -0000 Subject: And finally to Philip and his Dark Materials In-Reply-To: <001601c23c93$4b09fcc0$807032d2@price> Message-ID: Tabouli wrote: > A second musing I had while nearing the end of the second book was where are the book burning protesters? Surely the ilk who want to decry HP as corrupting the minds of the young and steering them towards Satan would have *major* problems with the philosophy he invented, which *spells out* a subversive position on Christianity. I suppose there may be some objectors out there, but on nothing like the same scale. Is it just that HP is much more digestible and accessible (not to mention insanely), and therefore far more "dangerous"? Is it HP waves witches and wizards in people's faces in Chapter 1 of PS/SS, where they're really obvious, whereas you actually have to look closely at Pullman and read to the end of Book 2 to find the sinister subversions? Is it that Pullman requires too sophisticated a reading level to endanger the minds of those vulnerable to His Dark Messages (or those who seize upon those things)? > > Hmmm... > > Tabouli. The answer to your question, Tabouli, is: HP has more detractors because it has sold more copies and it's more famous. After all, don't go looking for advanced or profound thoughts in people that burn books instead of reading them. Those people are afraid of independent thought, and thus will try to burn anything that they won't read, so everyone thinks in the same way as they do. They don't realise, of course, that that sort of publicity makes JKR all that more rich and famous, and sells more copies of her books. Also, I missed your "I'm back" post, so this is a but late, but anyway: welcome back, Tabouli. TAGWATCH wasn't the same without you (and lot's of minor competitors have poped up here and ther in your abscense). Hope you had a great time in your world tour. Hope that helps, Grey Wolf From bray.262 at osu.edu Mon Aug 5 13:03:49 2002 From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray) Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 13:03:49 +0000 (EST5EDT) Subject: I must recommend... Message-ID: <6469C05028@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu> I've been gone for the last week and 2 days on a train trip to the Hudson Bay. We ended up in Churchill. It was a beautiful trip and such a wonderful time. The train was very very comfortable and my parents and I had a blast. I highly recommend this trip to anyone who likes trains. And Canada. The scenery was breathtaking, the towns we stopped in were charming and it was MUCH COOLER THAN IT IS HERE IN COLUMBUS! I'm meeeelting.....meeeeeeeelting!!!! So.....did I miss anything? And Happy Birthday to all you who had one while I was away. OH! We stopped in a bookstore on the 31st so I could buy my paperback of GoF. They were having this HUGE Harry celebration. My mother and I had a great time participating in all the games and such. My father....spent the entire time in a cafe across the street. :-) We'll win him over one day. Rachel Bray The Ohio State University Fees, Deposits and Disbursements LORD OF THE SNITCH Three men form the chaser-squad under the sky Seven are the teammates on their brooms of wood Two are Bludger balls charmed to fly One is the dork Ref all on his own On the field of Quidditch where the Quaffles lie. One Snitch flits over all, one grab will win it One game may take three months, or may take but a minute On the field of Quidditch where the Quaffles lie. http://home.att.net/~coriolan/hpfilks.htm From rvotaw at i-55.com Mon Aug 5 17:07:49 2002 From: rvotaw at i-55.com (rvotaw at i-55.com) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 12:07:49 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] I must recommend... Message-ID: <7710571.1028567269914.JavaMail.root@webmail.i-55.com> > > OH! We stopped in a bookstore on the 31st so I could buy > my paperback of GoF. They were having this HUGE Harry > celebration. My mother and I had a great time > participating in all the games and such. My > father....spent the entire time in a cafe across the > street. :-) We'll win him over one day. > > Rachel Bray It sounds like you had a very nice time. I went in our local bookstore (Books a Million) on the 31st, even though I'd already bought my paperback copy of GoF, just to see if they had anything special going on. Well, apparently they had made a bit of an effort at the last minute. They had grabbed every Harry Potter book, set, tape, etc. off the shelf and piled them on a special display at the front. When I say piled, I mean PILED! More like dropped maybe. It's rough not having a good bookstore! Richelle ---------- I've been gone for the last week and 2 days on a train trip to the Hudson Bay. We ended up in Churchill. It was a beautiful trip and such a wonderful time. The train was very very comfortable and my parents and I had a blast. I highly recommend this trip to anyone who likes trains. And Canada. The scenery was breathtaking, the towns we stopped in were charming and it was MUCH COOLER THAN IT IS HERE IN COLUMBUS! I'm meeeelting.....meeeeeeeelting!!!! So.....did I miss anything? And Happy Birthday to all you who had one while I was away. OH! We stopped in a bookstore on the 31st so I could buy my paperback of GoF. They were having this HUGE Harry celebration. My mother and I had a great time participating in all the games and such. My father....spent the entire time in a cafe across the street. :-) We'll win him over one day. Rachel Bray The Ohio State University Fees, Deposits and Disbursements LORD OF THE SNITCH Three men form the chaser-squad under the sky Seven are the teammates on their brooms of wood Two are Bludger balls charmed to fly One is the dork Ref all on his own On the field of Quidditch where the Quaffles lie. One Snitch flits over all, one grab will win it One game may take three months, or may take but a minute On the field of Quidditch where the Quaffles lie. http://home.att.net/~coriolan/hpfilks.htm ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________ Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/ Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying! Is your message... An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements. Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie. Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups. None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter. Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com ____________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mike at aberforthsgoat.net Mon Aug 5 23:09:17 2002 From: mike at aberforthsgoat.net (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 01:09:17 +0200 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] And finally to Philip and his Dark Materials References: <001601c23c93$4b09fcc0$807032d2@price> Message-ID: <02a001c23cd5$20409840$0200a8c0@shasta> Tabouli mused, > A second musing I had while nearing the end of the second > book was where are the book burning protesters? Surely > the ilk who want to decry HP as corrupting the minds of the > young and steering them towards Satan would have *major* > problems with the philosophy he invented, which *spells out* > a subversive position on Christianity. I suppose there may be > some objectors out there, but on nothing like the same scale. Actually, I suppose I'm one of the objectors. I've read HDM three times and enjoyed it at many levels. However, as a guy who who puts up with long hours and a low salary to work for a Christian church, I have trouble not resenting Pullman's wholesale condemnation of his religion. I've had enough church history - and worked in enough churches - to agree that Christians do some God awful things. But I wish Pullman had given us at least *one* Christian character whom I could admire as human being. I don't think even CS Lewis communicated such as harsh message through his portrayal of witches and Tash-worshippers. Yes, those characters do suggest a basic distaste for non-Christians. However, the condemnation is implicit and, I think, even subconscious. CSL was not consciously gunning for Wiccans or even Muslims; he was much more interesteed in shooting down materialists and cynics. He just hired a few hags and moors for a caste of stock villains. (BTW, his book The Abolition of Man spells this out - along with a deep respect for all world religions. Or note that he has Emeth, the Tash Worshipper, turn out to be good. Also btw, I'm not saying that implicit, unconscious stereotyping is better than the explicit, conscious version. But I think his views - particularly against the backdrop of his non-fiction - were more nuanced than Pullman's.) Anyway, that's my take, and I'm anything but objective. Nor would I want to ban Pullman. In fact, I hope my own children will get to know both worlds and learn from both of them - and love their very different beauties. > Is it just that HP is much more digestible and accessible (not > to mention insanely), and therefore far more "dangerous"? Is > it HP waves witches and wizards in people's faces in Chapter > 1 of PS/SS, where they're really obvious, whereas you actually > have to look closely at Pullman and read to the end of Book 2 > to find the sinister subversions? Is it that Pullman requires too > sophisticated a reading level to endanger the minds of those > vulnerable to His Dark Messages (or those who seize upon > those things)? Certainly the level of publicity is very important. If Pullman were getting as much as Rowling, my gang would be howling at the moon. But I think the explicit way Pullman condemns Christianity actually makes him less theatening for the sort of Christians who fear HP. They don't feel any need to prove that Pullman is a bad guy - he goes to great lengths to tell them so. Exposing Pullman would be about as enlightening as checking a recording of a black sabbath for back masking. What *does* give some Christians the willies is the feeling that certain books which don't *appear* to question their faith actually have a hidden, hostile agenda. Unveiling sinister secrets is something we all find exciting; it just so happens that some Christians think they've done exactly that with HP. Some other Christians think they're tracking woozles. If *really* want to catch some authors writing things deeply subversive to the integrity of their faith, they should check the mirror. Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) _______________________ "Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been bravery...." From miss_megan at bigpond.com Tue Aug 6 01:14:18 2002 From: miss_megan at bigpond.com (snuffles_macgoo) Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 01:14:18 -0000 Subject: Poll results for HPFGU-OTChatter In-Reply-To: <1028532589.23.50127.m10@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., HPFGU-OTChatter at y... wrote: > > The following HPFGU-OTChatter poll is now closed. Here are the > final results: > > > POLL QUESTION: Which Weasley are you like in > appearance and attitude? > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > - Arthur, 2 votes, 11.11% > - Molly, 6 votes, 33.33% > - Bill, 3 votes, 16.67% > - Charlie, 0 votes, 0.00% > - Percy, 1 votes, 5.56% > - Fred/George, 0 votes, 0.00% > - Ron, 3 votes, 16.67% > - Ginny, 3 votes, 16.67% > > No one was like Charlie? I don't understand, I will be Charlie - I want to take care of the dragons, if not wear the dragon hide trousers storm, the very vanilla. > > For more information about this group, please visit > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From ameliagoldfeesh at yahoo.com Tue Aug 6 12:34:51 2002 From: ameliagoldfeesh at yahoo.com (ameliagoldfeesh) Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 12:34:51 -0000 Subject: Great books and DVDs Message-ID: I have discovered Dorothy L. Sayers! Well, actually thanks to this list. I remembered her getting mentioned several times in a book discussion from few months ago. Last time I was at the library I picked up several of her books and now I see why she kept coming up. I loved "Gaudy Night." If not for you guys I may never have picked up any of her books. Additionally I've found the library a good source for DVDs. I just mention this as I am someone who only connects the library with books. ("What? They have videotapes?!) They have such a good variety of oddball DVDs. Unlike at my rental place in town they actually have old and/or "classic" movies. Now if I could only read and watch movies at the same time.... A Goldfeesh (who wishes she could find "Many Rivers to Cross on tape or DVD-but alas) "The higher up the berry tree the sweeter grows the berry, the more you hug and kiss a gal the more she'll want to marry." - the infectious theme song of Many Rivers From speedygonzo242 at hotmail.com Tue Aug 6 14:53:28 2002 From: speedygonzo242 at hotmail.com (frankielee242) Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 14:53:28 -0000 Subject: Great books and DVDs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: HOORAY, A FELLOW DOROTHY L. SAYERS FAN!! She and G. K. Chesterton are my favorite authors of all time, and then comes JKR. I wasn't around for the book discussion you mentioned in your post (see below), but do you remember the subject line? I'll gladly dig through the old posts to find it. Have you read Sayer's "Nine Taylors" yet? Interesting story dealing with cyphers. Fun, fun, fun. "Gaudy Night" is possibly the most read book on my shelves, though. I recently picked up "Thrones, Dominations" which was finished posthumously from her rough drafts and notes. The author and editors did a great job with the story, but if you're familiar with Sayers, you can see the difference between her and the other writer. Once you're done with all of her other stories, it's a fun read. She also translated Dante, if you're into that sort of thing. Frankie PS. Libraries and multimedia. My mother used to rent vinyl records from the library when I was very small... Never pop music, always bizarre Smithsonian recordings of appalachian hillbillies playing banjo and singing local folk songs. As a result, I've learned to block out the world by sticking my nose in a book. --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "ameliagoldfeesh" wrote: > > > I have discovered Dorothy L. Sayers! Well, actually thanks to this > list. I remembered her getting mentioned several times in a > book discussion from few months ago. Last time I was at the > library I picked up several of her books and now I see why she > kept coming up. I loved "Gaudy Night." If not for you guys I may > never have picked up any of her books. > > Additionally I've found the library a good source for DVDs. I just > mention this as I am someone who only connects the library with > books. ("What? They have videotapes?!) They have such a good > variety of oddball DVDs. Unlike at my rental place in town they > actually have old and/or "classic" movies. > > Now if I could only read and watch movies at the same time.... > > A Goldfeesh > (who wishes she could find "Many Rivers to Cross on tape or > DVD-but alas) > "The higher up the berry tree the sweeter grows the berry, > the more you hug and kiss a gal the more she'll want to > marry." - the infectious theme song of Many Rivers From speedygonzo242 at hotmail.com Tue Aug 6 21:22:36 2002 From: speedygonzo242 at hotmail.com (frankielee242) Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 21:22:36 -0000 Subject: Happy Birthday, Amber! In-Reply-To: <20020802200434.81798.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Sheryll Townsend wrote: > *re-decorates the room and brings yet another cake to > the side table* > > Today's birthday honouree is Amber. Her owls can be > sent care of this list. > > I hope your day is filled with joy and much magic. > > Everyone, join me in raising a glass of butterbeer. > > Happy Birthday, Amber! > > Sheryll Better late than never... Happy Birthday Amber!! Hope you had a great Friday bash. =) Frankie From dfrankiswork at netscape.net Tue Aug 6 22:02:35 2002 From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley) Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 22:02:35 -0000 Subject: And finally to Philip and his Dark Materials In-Reply-To: <001601c23c93$4b09fcc0$807032d2@price> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tabouli" wrote: > A second musing I had while nearing the end of the second [Pullman] book was where are the book burning protesters? Grey Wolf and Aberforth's Goat both mentioned the popularity of HP as a factor in the hostility to it. This can be given a Christian spin in two ways: 1) The devil is referred to in the Bible as 'the God of this world', and 'the whole world is in the power of the evil one'. Anything which is very popular is therefore for that very reason suspect for some Christians. Even churches that grow very fast come in for this sort of suspicion. 2) Many churches are (despite the above) looking for the strategy or method that will attract people in large numbers. When a secular author succeeds where they can't, particularly with children, it creates tension. Oddly enough for some churches the quotes above are interpreted in a way that is very similar to Pullman's view of The Authority or Metatron: the devil is an angel with a past legitimate (ie delegated by God for benevolent purposes) authority over the world which he now perverts. David From s_ings at yahoo.com Tue Aug 6 23:08:00 2002 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 19:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Happy Birthday, Cornflower O'Shea Message-ID: <20020806230800.94427.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com> *hangs the last streamer and surveys the side table weighted down with food* Well, everything is ready here. Join the party, everyone. Today's birthday honouree is Cornflower O'Shea. Birthday owls can be sent care of this list or directly to her at: tenpinkpiggies at hotmail.com I hope you day was magical and everything you hoped for. Happy Birthday, Cornflower O'Shea! Sheryll ===== "We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times." blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26 ______________________________________________________________________ Post your ad for free now! http://personals.yahoo.ca From jenw118 at HotPOP.com Wed Aug 7 00:08:42 2002 From: jenw118 at HotPOP.com (Jennifer R. Wilson) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 19:08:42 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Birthday, Cornflower O'Shea References: <20020806230800.94427.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001601c23da6$98031700$8fc5fbd8@oemcomputer> Happy birthday, Cornflower! I hope you have enjoyed a lovely HP filled birthday! Jennifer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ameliagoldfeesh at yahoo.com Wed Aug 7 02:40:52 2002 From: ameliagoldfeesh at yahoo.com (ameliagoldfeesh) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 02:40:52 -0000 Subject: Great books and DVDs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "frankielee242" wrote: > HOORAY, A FELLOW DOROTHY L. SAYERS FAN!! She and G. K. Chesterton are > my favorite authors of all time, and then comes JKR. I wasn't around > for the book discussion you mentioned in your post (see below), but do > you remember the subject line? I'll gladly dig through the old posts > to find it. > (Snips) The discussion was in March, starting the sixth. The main subjects lines were "Books books books" and "Top Five" I believe. And I really didn't need to find a new author to read seeing how many books I have to read . For instance, the (abridged) Journals of Lewis and Clark. Also I'm still in the middle of The Idiot and The Rasputin Files among others. A Goldfeesh (who'd be more inclined to finish The Idiot if her mother -Of All People Who Should Know Better- hadn't told her the ending! I know who the main character represents and could have guessed but seriously...) From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 7 03:06:34 2002 From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda the Witch) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 20:06:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Birthday, Cornflower O'Shea In-Reply-To: <20020806230800.94427.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020807030634.2097.qmail@web13707.mail.yahoo.com> Sheryll Townsend wrote: Today's birthday honouree is Cornflower O'Shea. I hope your day was magical and everything you hoped for. Happy Birthday, Cornflower O'Shea! Sheryll ===== All right! Another party! HAPPY BIRTHDAY CORNFLOWER O"SHEA! Hope the party was a harty one and all your goodies were what you wanted! Here is a big toast to you with a huge mug of butterbeer! Schnoogles, Wanda the Witch of Revere,Massachusetts and Her Very Merry Band of Muggles 100% "When you come to the edge of all the light you know, and are about to step off into the darkness of the unknown, faith is knowing one of two things will happen; There will be something solid to stand on, or you will be taught how to fly."......Unknown. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dradamsapple at yahoo.com Wed Aug 7 04:46:23 2002 From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 04:46:23 -0000 Subject: VERY OT! Message-ID: Hey everyone! I need some moral support! I about to embark on my first ever camping trip **what do you mean I can't bring my hair dryer?** 8-( My husband and kids are psyched: the only thing that's keeping me going is the fact that my inlaws also rented a cottage that belongs to the camp ground, and the possibility of actually sleeping on a mattress and showering in privacy is not that remote. I know I'll be ok, as my husband pretty much grew up camping, and his two sisters and their families are coming too *yes, we are overtaking the mountain!* They all are expert (well, compared to me) campers and I know I'll survive, it's just that I'm a little anxious. Anyone have any helpful hints? And oh yeah, any recipes? (my son asked me today how many times am I going to make American chop suey next week!) And another thing, I won't even mention the HP withdrawl I'm going to have!! Yours with pie irons and tin foil, Anna . . . From rvotaw at i-55.com Wed Aug 7 12:38:53 2002 From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 07:38:53 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] VERY OT! References: Message-ID: <001e01c23e0f$646ea6c0$22a1cdd1@istu757> > Hey everyone! > > I need some moral support! > I about to embark on my first ever camping trip **what do you mean I > can't bring my hair dryer?** 8-( > Anna . . . Well, good luck is all I can say! I've only been camping once in my entire life, that was about six years ago on Christmas night. Long story. Anyway, I was completely miserable and thought I'd freeze to death. At least you shouldn't be cold, so you have that much going for you! Richelle From tabouli at unite.com.au Wed Aug 7 12:56:59 2002 From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:56:59 +1000 Subject: His Dark Messages Message-ID: <008c01c23e11$ebb26b60$388586cb@price> David: > Grey Wolf and Aberforth's Goat both mentioned the popularity of HP as a factor in the hostility to it.< Ahem. This is what you get for not bothering to send a correction addendum. After "(not to mention insanely)" I intended to write "popular". Because yes, yes, of course the book burners are bothered because of HP's incredible popularity. This much is obvious. What interests me, though, is the role of popularity in fervent religious objection: is the level of popularity, in fact, *more* important than the actual content? Is anything as phenomenally popular as HP by definition suspect? Is it some native suspicion that only Satan himself could fuel such popularity? And so on. What I meant was what David suggested in this: > Anything which is very popular is therefore for that very reason suspect for some Christians. Even churches that grow very fast come in for this sort of suspicion.< The charismatic movement, perhaps? Ahaa and ohoo. The church my mother used to take us to in Adelaide was a splinter group from a church which went Too Charismatic. Their view was that any church that embraced such... *oddness* (closing eyes and reaching out to God, singing and dancing, faith healing, speaking in tongues, etc.) could well be straying onto the Path Of Satan. But I digress. The Goat: > However, as a guy who who puts up with long hours and a low salary to work for a Christian church, I have trouble not resenting Pullman's wholesale condemnation of his religion.< Interesting on a few counts. First, "his" religion? Is, or was, Pullman a practising Christian? I vaguely assumed he was raised nominally Christian and rejected Christianity at adolescence or later. Second, does the fact that he has *written* a trilogy which denounces Christianity as repressive and deluded necessarily mean that he, as a person, denounces it for the same reasons? (it's the ol' fictional/factual divide again!). Third, would Pullman's portrayal of Christianity bother you less if you *weren't* working for a pittance for a Christian church? If, perhaps, you were a senior figure of a different religion? Hmmm... The Goat: > I don't think even CS Lewis communicated such as harsh message through his portrayal of witches and Tash-worshippers. Yes, those characters do suggest a basic distaste for non-Christians. However, the condemnation is implicit and, I think, even subconscious. CSL was not consciously gunning for Wiccans or even Muslims< In Australia, at least, Christian bashing is almost a national sport in some circles. People who proclaim their Christianity, or argue from an explicitly Christian viewpoint (in, say, a letter to the editor in a newspaper) are quite likely to meet with scorn and derision. Our politicians, unlike US politicians, are apt to *avoid* any mention of God or their own faith, suspecting (probably correctly) that it would undermine public respect for them. Mind you, this doesn't stop Australians embracing Easter and Christmas (at least in a chocolate eggs and gifts sort of way), and having basically Protestant values underpinning their laws and institutions. *However*... Muslim and Wiccan and other religious group bashing is viewed quite differently. Sure, you get plenty of the ol' "Muslim societies are misogynist" sort of comments in some circles, and plenty of stereotyping, but people are apt to be a little more wary. Ridiculing Christians is easy to get away with - ridiculing or criticising Muslims, for example, could get you landed with a discrimination suit. I too have mused on this phenomenon, and my suspicion is that here we have another example of the Overdog Syndrome. Think about it. Which country is the richest and most powerful and influential in the world? The US. Which religion do its televangelists and presidents and most of its populace adhere to? Christianity. According to the rules of the Overdog Syndrome, you can be as rude as you like about an ideology or a person or a religion or whatever, *provided* that ideology or whatever Has It Too Good. Christianity is, generally speaking, an Overdog in the West, and it's OK to be rude about Overdogs (be they women who are too beautiful, or children who are too smart, or people/countries who are too rich and privileged). They are fair game. Deriding them is just redressing their unfair privilege. It's the Underdogs, the people and groups who are oppressed, or powerless, or unsuccessful, or ugly that you're not supposed to ridicule. It's not fair. They're suffering already. This is particularly the case in Australia, where there's a bit of an allergy to differences in status (and therefore any high status "tall poppies" get chopped down), but not uncommon in general. Probably not the only reason for Christian bashing, but in there, I'd say. The Goat: > What *does* give some Christians the willies is the feeling that certain books which don't *appear* to question their faith actually have a hidden, hostile agenda. Unveiling sinister secrets is something we all find exciting; it just so happens that some Christians think they've done exactly that with HP.< My impression was that the willies factor (!) with HP is its use of characters traditionally associated with evil in Christian lore, namely witches and wizards. Someone who knows more about history than me would be a better source, but I believe when the Christians conquered and converted the British Isles, one way of turning people away from their pagan and Wiccan practices was turning all their gods and rituals and revered figures into representations of Satan. The Horned God, evil spirits, practitioners of Satanic rites and so on. After all, if they're not with God, they had to be against Him, didn't they? Having seen these evil characters in the books, the Christian williers *knew* JKR was up to no good, and hastened to scrutinise the books for the matching evil messages they were bound to find within. And seized on the "defying authority" angle, of all things. Harry does not show Family Values, because he is rude about the Dursleys (bit worrying, this. Children, obey your father and mother, or guardian substitutes, no matter how vile they are to you?). Characters are shown Disobeying Adult Authority... without heavy-handed demonstrations of how Bad this is and why it will lead you straight into Hell! Tsk tsk tsk. Grey Wolf: > Also, I missed your "I'm back" post, so this is a but late, but anyway: welcome back, Tabouli. TAGWATCH wasn't the same without you (and lots of minor competitors have popped up here and there in your absence). Hope you had a great time in your world tour.< Thanks, O wolfish one! I have cranked up my main list digests again in preparation for my return. It's just that I feel terribly out of touch with the Bay. Once I knew its every boat and billow, but now I barely recognise it. Worse still, once I had all the can(n)ons of LOLLIPOPS at my fingertips, and could defend it valiantly against every slight, but now my Captain's uniform's all... dusty. *Moth-eaten*! Still, I must say one of today's digests did inspire mild filkiness... Tabouli. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From saitaina at wizzards.net Wed Aug 7 13:09:09 2002 From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 06:09:09 -0700 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] VERY OT! References: Message-ID: <003201c23e13$9f1bdfa0$024e28d1@oemcomputer> Anna wrote: My advice is to ENJOY IT. Don't think about what you don't have, think about what you do, your with your family, in the beauty that is nature. Forget about the life waiting you back home, just enjoy the moment you have then. More advice, Pack books, extra batteries for flashlights (even if you are in the cottage, trust me on this), hell pack extra batteries for everything that may need it. Er..that's about the only major things I can remember beyond needing two sleeping bags a person (reduces the cold), and not to be hasty in putting up tents (unless you LIKE rocks in your back) but those don't apply too well. As for recipes my favorite is campside eclaires. Refrigerated dough (can't remember which kind but you should be able to figure it out), vanilla pudding and chocolate sauce. Roast the dough like a marshmallow, fill with pudding and cover in chocolate, tastes awesome. Also there are more things you can cook in aluminum (tin) foil then you could imagine so I recommend playing around with it. Think of the campfire as a giant grill and you can cook practically anything with it (always helpful to actually bring a grill rack but not needed as the rocks around a campfire can be used just as well. I hope this helps. I've had years of camping under my belt (some good...some awful) but I've never once regretted a trip...except the one where my foster father threw a wrench at me but that's another story. :) Oh, and advice for anyone reading this w/out indoor plumbing...invest in a camping porta potty. Their a bit expensive but as they flush and you can create privacy....much better then the outhouses some camp-grounds have. They were a godsend in my early, shy years. Saitaina Who has been camping since she was old enough to ask "Are we there yet?" **** Oh hell, someone wake me when my happy ending starts... I wouldn't want to miss the flying pigs and ice skating demons. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From tabouli at unite.com.au Wed Aug 7 16:42:31 2002 From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 02:42:31 +1000 Subject: His Dark Narnian Messages Message-ID: <000c01c23e31$6dc14ee0$9a5032d2@price> Just spent an interesting few hours reading about Philip Pullman on the web. Very interesting. I offer the following as an example (especially for the Goat, but others reading this thread): http://www.thirdway.org.uk/past/showpage.asp?page=3949 I discovered that yes indeed, there *are* some protesters out there denouncing His Dark Messages. Pullman has been described by right wing journalists in Britain as "semi-satanic" and "the most dangerous author in Britain"! Good, good, just wondered where they'd got to. Sadly, though, I can't seem to find the full text of his infamous article "The Dark Side of Narnia", published on the 1st of October 1998. Oo, the audacity of the man! Launching a blistering attack on Narnia - during the celebration of the centenary of CS Lewis' birth! I chuckle evilly. That's the spirit! Not that I share his loathing of the Narnia chronicles (I agree with the standard criticisms about their dubious socio-political messages, but I can forgive them in the light of their other charms), I just relish his penchant for subversion. I mean, CS Lewis is such a sacred cow. His admirers parade him back and forth all the time, dressed in a "Best of Show" blue ribbon, believing him to be above reproach and deserving of reverence. The fact that Pullman popped out of the members' stand to rain rotten fruit on the parade I find strangely entertaining. I don't hold with this sacred cow business when it comes to literature: no book should be considered immune from criticism. I did find some responses to that article on the Web, of course, including one which worried me by declaring that he "was another author who wasn't as nice as the books he writes", on the grounds that Pullman had pointed out that a lot of the things Lewis said weren't very nice. O dear. I mean, the ol' "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing" is all very well when it comes to personal stuff, preserving self-esteem and whatnot, but extending it to all domains really seems a bit much to me. Can't we strike some happy medium between scathing contempt towards all things and some happy pill world where people are only allowed to say Nice Things, especially when it comes to evaluating the work of dead authors who no longer have feelings to be hurt? I should also add that "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing" is a particularly Anglophone philosophy. In my workshops for international students, Western Europeans from all manner of non English speaking countries regularly shake their heads over this one. An example I give is that of the friend who has just had a truly appalling haircut. Do you (a) tell her what you really think, or (b) try to find something complimentary and reassuring to say, or (c) say nothing? That English speakers tend to prefer (b) ((c) being problematic, as it implies that you can't find anything nice to say about the haircut, and is therefore an implied criticism) astonishes them. That's so insincere! they cry. As a friend, your job is to tell her the truth! As my just-married Swiss friend says, our schools emphasise the importance of having l'esprit critique! Interesting. Any thoughts from Grey Wolf and Katze and other Western European types on the list? Tabouli. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From naama_gat at hotmail.com Wed Aug 7 16:38:52 2002 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naamagatus) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 16:38:52 -0000 Subject: TBAY--well, to be honest, blatant fanfic. So sue me. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "serenadust" wrote: > > Congratulations Amy! Finally a fanfic even I can enjoy. I > particularly enjoy the bit about Harry's overworked stomach taking > off for Majorca for what I'm sure is a much needed rest. > Now, if only JKR could read this..... > Does anybody else have this guilty fantasy of JKR being a member of the HPFGU list? Getting stressed over the nitpicks? Outraged at the ESE theories? Distressed by Elkins' moral critique? Shaking her head in disbelief over the sheer mass of our collective obsession? OR, is she just smiling gently while glancing at her bloated bank account? Jo, if you're here ... LOGOUT! GET TO WORK! FINISH THE DAMN BOOK ALREADY! Naama From lupinesque at yahoo.com Wed Aug 7 16:52:53 2002 From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (lupinesque) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 16:52:53 -0000 Subject: His Dark Messages In-Reply-To: <008c01c23e11$ebb26b60$388586cb@price> Message-ID: Tabouli: >What interests me, though, is the role of popularity in fervent >religious objection: is the level of popularity, in fact, *more* >important than the actual content? Is anything as phenomenally >popular as HP by definition suspect? Is it some native suspicion >that only Satan himself could fuel such popularity? Yes, but next to your and David's subtler point is the more glaring one that people take on what they see as dangerous. HDM may merit being banned from library shelves and so on, but it isn't a worldwide phenomenon. HP is scarier because so many of us are lapping it up. (I admit, I have to admire people who are willing to face down a juggernaut like HP.) The Goat: > > However, as a guy who who puts up with long hours > and a low salary to work for a Christian church, I have trouble not > resenting Pullman's wholesale condemnation of his religion.< Tabouli: > Interesting on a few counts. First, "his" religion? Is, or was, >Pullman a practising Christian? I vaguely assumed he was raised >nominally Christian and rejected Christianity at adolescence or >later. I think that's about right, from a couple of interviews I've read. >Second, does the fact that he has *written* a trilogy which >denounces Christianity as repressive and deluded necessarily mean >that he, as a person, denounces it for the same reasons? (it's the >ol' fictional/factual divide again!). Hm. Not necessarily, but probably. >Third, would Pullman's portrayal of Christianity bother you less if >you *weren't* working for a pittance for a Christian church? If, >perhaps, you were a senior figure of a different religion? Hmmm... Sounds like my cue. I am working for a pittance for a non-Christian church , I am not and never have been a Christian (sounds like I'm up before a Congressional committee, though I guess it would be an Australian rather than an American one), and in fact one of the reasons I love HDM so much is that it so beautifully encapsulates much of my theology. Judging from what is presented in HDM, I would guess Pullman and I have very similar religious views. However, his portrayal of Christianity does bother me a bit. It is not that he criticizes much of its theology, nor that there are evil and hypocritical leaders in the Church in Lyra's world, nor even that one respected character calls Christianity a very beautiful mistake, but that everyone associated with the Church is so horrible. They seem a bit like a caricature, to the point that I winced at the clumsiness. There is of course one character whose redemption is quite Christian, and in her description of that redemption, Pullman uses his most explicitly Christian language. Interesting. Amy From dfrankiswork at netscape.net Wed Aug 7 17:02:32 2002 From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 17:02:32 -0000 Subject: His Dark Narnian Messages In-Reply-To: <000c01c23e31$6dc14ee0$9a5032d2@price> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tabouli" wrote: > I discovered that yes indeed, there *are* some protesters out there denouncing His Dark Messages. Pullman has been described by right wing journalists in Britain as "semi-satanic" and "the most dangerous author in Britain"! Good, good, just wondered where they'd got to. > Poor Jo! Pushed off her pedestal. That's what you get for not cracking on and getting book 5 out the door. David From caliburncy at yahoo.com Wed Aug 7 17:59:17 2002 From: caliburncy at yahoo.com (caliburncy) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 17:59:17 -0000 Subject: His Dark Messages In-Reply-To: <008c01c23e11$ebb26b60$388586cb@price> Message-ID: Hi! --- Tabouli wrote: > Is, or was, Pullman a practising Christian? I vaguely assumed he > was raised nominally Christian and rejected Christianity at > adolescence or later. Well, here's Philip Pullman's explanation of his religious background in his own words. This is from a School Library Journal interview located at: http://slj.reviewsnews.com/index.asp? layout=articleArchive&articleId=CA153054 --- Philip Pullman wrote: > My grandfather was a clergyman in the Church of England.... He > headed an old village church, and he was the rector. It was a > country parish, and I was brought up in his household for a lot of > my childhood. So all through my childhood, I went to church every > Sunday. I went to Sunday school. I know the Bible very well. I know > the hymns and the prayer book very well--and this is the old, > authorized King James Version of the Bible, and the 1662 Book of > Common Prayer that used to be used in English churches, and the old > hymns that used to be sung. > > When I go into a church now, I don't recognize the language. It's > sort of modern and it's flat and it's bureaucratic and it's > derivative.... It's sort of, in attempting to be inclusive and > friendly, it becomes awfully... jolly and--I can't bear that. But I > love the language and the atmosphere of the Bible and the prayer > book. I don't say I agree with it.... Since growing up and since > thinking about it, I've come to realize that the basis on which > these belief systems were founded isn't there. I no longer believe > in the God I used to believe in when I was a boy. But I do know the > background very well, and I will never escape it. So although I > call myself an atheist, I'm certainly a Christian atheist and even > more particularly, a Church of England--what would you say, > Episcopalian?--atheist. And very specifically, a 1662 Book of > Common Prayer atheist. I can't escape these influences on my > background, and I would not wish to. So there you have it. In brief, I would say he was raised Christian in more than just a nominal sense, but it is a little unclear at precisely what point he ceased to agree with that Christian viewpoint. And, as he states in the end, he now considers himself atheist, but an atheist who is strongly influenced by that Christian background. --- Tabouli wrote: > Second, does the fact that he has *written* a trilogy which > denounces Christianity as repressive and deluded necessarily mean > that he, as a person, denounces it for the same reasons? (it's the > ol' fictional/factual divide again!). Well, this will take a long response, so I'll send it in a different message. -Luke From greywolf1 at jazzfree.com Wed Aug 7 18:24:08 2002 From: greywolf1 at jazzfree.com (grey_wolf_c) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 18:24:08 -0000 Subject: His Dark Narnian Messages In-Reply-To: <000c01c23e31$6dc14ee0$9a5032d2@price> Message-ID: Tabouli wrote: > I should also add that "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing" is a particularly Anglophone philosophy. In my workshops for international students, Western Europeans from all manner of non English speaking countries regularly shake their heads over this one. An example I give is that of the friend who has just had a truly appalling haircut. Do you (a) tell her what you really think, or (b) try to find something complimentary and reassuring to say, or (c) say nothing? That English speakers tend to prefer (b) ((c) being problematic, as it implies that you can't find anything nice to say about the haircut, and is therefore an implied criticism) astonishes them. That's so insincere! they cry. As a friend, your job is to tell her the truth! > As my just-married Swiss friend says, our schools emphasise the importance of having l'esprit critique! > > Interesting. Any thoughts from Grey Wolf and Katze and other Western European types on the list? > > Tabouli. Ok, you've addressed my by name, so I thought I should give you my feedback -even if it sounds somewhat strange. Here in my Western Europe country (c) is definetely *not* an option. We always speak about the things we notice. Keeping silent about something is understanded as a poor eyesight, not as anything else. Of course, most of the time you'll lead the situation by asking the opinion: How's my new haircut/ trousers/shoes/car/whatever? Those people that do not wish to offend normally use the famed "As long as you like it" phrase -which comes to mean that you don't like it but it's not you the one going around with horrible haircut, anyway. Then again, I normally take (a) myself, and I've been known far and wide to be "too truthful" (by those willing to recognise truth for what it is) and "brusque". I don't pull the blows, and a question -except when in very touchy topics- will always get my opinion in the matter -as you've probably realised by reading my posts. As a general rule, however, I've never noticed that "If you can't say anything good, don't say anything at all" is aplied in my country traditionally, although I have seen examples, and the fact that they look out of place makes me think it's an unusal way of facing a question. Hope that helps, Grey Wolf, who is NOT going to say what country he is from, so don't bother to ask. It is easy to deduce it from his posts, though. From caliburncy at yahoo.com Wed Aug 7 19:22:02 2002 From: caliburncy at yahoo.com (caliburncy) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 19:22:02 -0000 Subject: His Dark Messages In-Reply-To: <008c01c23e11$ebb26b60$388586cb@price> Message-ID: Hi, Part two! --- Tabouli wrote: > Second, does the fact that he has *written* a trilogy which > denounces Christianity as repressive and deluded necessarily mean > that he, as a person, denounces it for the same reasons? (it's the > ol' fictional/factual divide again!). In general, no, just because someone writes something that conveys a certain viewpoint, it does not necessarily mean that he or she agrees with that viewpoint. We're all agreed on that, I assume. But speaking specifically about whether there is correlation between Philip Pullman's actual views, and the views he expresses in His Dark Materials, I'm going to have to respond both "yes" and "no." I respond, "yes," because Philip Pullman clearly thinks that he believes what he wrote, in pretty much exactly the words he wrote it, because when people ask him about his views on religion, he pretty much always starts off by saying "I prefer just to point to the story and say 'There it is.'" (This particular quote is from the Readerville interview by the way: http://www.readerville.com/WebX?14 at 119.uIPuaoC4fnb.13@.ef6c70e/0 but similar statements can be found in many of his other interviews.) Also in that same Readerville interview, Philip Pullman says the following: > Do I believe in God? Well, actually, no. But could I just raise in > response the question - does it MATTER what I believe in? You can > see what the BOOK believes in - what it values, and what it > criticises; what it holds up for admiration, and what it deplores. > What I personally believe in or not isn't really important - > except, of course, for the question of sincerity. Did I mean it? > That's what the question implies. Well, can I say that you don't > spend seven years on a journey like this without needing some sort > of moral ballast to keep the keel upright and make sure you stay on > course; in other words, I couldn't do this frivolously or withou t > conviction. Yes, I believe in what the book says. I mean every word > of it. And, BTW, for anyone that hasn't yet read it, I *highly* recommend that you read the full Readerville interview. It was conducted informally by fans, which is important for reasons I will explain below, and it is HANDS DOWN the most thorough and enlightening interview about His Dark Materials that I have encountered on the Internet. Even if you do have to work your way through a lot of superfluity to get to the chewy caramel center. Now then, let's move on to the reason that my answer to Tabouli's question is also "no," as well as "yes." I don't know Philip Pullman personally, so you'll have to take this comment with a grain of salt, but you have to understand something about the way he writes. When he writes formally, like for a book or speech or essay, he is a sensationalist. I do not mean this in a bad way. What I mean is that, given a choice between accuracy and drama, he tends to choose drama. Now please note that by my saying he doesn't choose accuracy, I do not mean he *lies*--indeed he doesn't, as far as I know. I simply mean that when writing formally, he will tend to present a viewpoint that is a bit more simplistic than the viewpoint he actually holds. I know a fair amount of people that are like this, because of the time I spent as a debater, where this method of communication is basically the norm where "tactics" are concerned. So I'm not unfamiliar with the phenomenon, although I may be wrong and over- generalizing when I apply it to Philip Pullman. Anyway, it seems that the only way to get at what he *really* thinks, in more specific, qualified terms, is to put him in an informal conversational position. This means stuff such as interviews--but not just any interview: only ones that are sufficiently at ease and unprofessional in feel. That's why his comments in the Readerville interview, conducted with fans, are so good. His other good interviews tend to be similarly loose and chatty: Such as ones conducted with small websites, or especially one that was conducted at a fan convention. And then, when an informal situation removes the need for drama--the need to make a point in a persuasive way--all of a sudden, you get a Philip Pullman who seems much less extremist. In fact, I really like this version of Philip Pullman. He is opinionated, but much more open-minded. Even if we don't always agree, he is someone I would be happy to discuss life, the universe and everything with. For example, in the Readerville interview, forum member Emily Christensen asked the following: > I would be the first person to rail against the abuses perpetuated > by various churches in the name of God/religion. But as a religious > person, I struggled with the way you portrayed the Church in your > series. You took such care to give your other characters moral > nuance, but every single representative of the Church is wholy bad. > Why? And Philip Pullman answered: > Why are all the church characters bad? That was due to a flaw in my > artistry, no doubt. Personally, I think it's pretty big of him to admit this. He explains a bit further in another interview, called Heat and Dust, at the following URL: http://www.thirdway.org.uk/past/showpage.asp?page=3949 (This is a very interesting interview as well, although it puts Pullman and the interviewer both very firmly in debate mode, so that the open-mindedness is sometimes lost again.) Here he writes: > I'm not making an argument, or preaching a sermon or setting out a > political tract: I'm telling a story. And I accept that if I'd had > more time to think about it, no doubt I would have put in a good > priest here or there, just to show they're not all horrible. > > But there we are. If you're writing a novel, especially a long > story of thirteen hundred pages, there are always going to be > things you wish you'd done differently. Artistic perfection is not > achievable in anything much over the length of a sonnet. But going back to the Readerville interview, there he does also go on to explain a bit more, and if you read between the lines, you will see this partly supports my view of him as tending toward sensationalism. He says, "I was trying to hit a target that deserved hitting, and there's no merit in pulling punches when important issues are at stake." So throughout this explanation, he subtly acknowledges that he gives a biased view of the church, but does so because "pulling punches," as he puts it is, essentially, less effective from an argumentative standpoint. I am reading into this of course, but at least flatter myself into believing that I'm not entirely off the mark. In fact, Pullman is apparently consciously aware that he tends toward sensationalism. He addresses this in a quote from an interview that I can't seem to find at the moment. What can I say? I don't keep them all at my fingertips. :-) But anyway, he does say basically the same thing in that aforementioned Heat and Dust interview, he just doesn't explain it as well. The interviewer mentions a comment from his Carnegie Medal Acceptance Speech where he stated that adult authors tend to "cut artistic capers" for their readers, rather than concerning themselves with story, like children's books do. And Philip Pullman responds, adding in a little reminder that, "I said it to be provocative." Now, if I had that other interview handy, you would be able to see that in that interview, he addresses this better. But what he basically said there, as I recall, was that he often writes things in a manner that's a bit more overstated than actuality. In short, he basically acknowledges this tendency to over-generalize on purpose, with the intent of provoking thought thereby, as a touch of sensationalism. And if you look, you'll see this in His Dark Materials, when compared to Pullman's actual views. He often has to clarify where he miscommunicated himself by coming across too strongly. For example, he explains the following in the Readerville interview: > I'll say a brief word abou tthe Authority, though. The God who dies > is the God of the burners of heretics, the hangers of witches, the > persecuters of Jews, the officials who recently flogged that poor > girl in Nigeria who had the misfortune to become pregant after > having been forced to have sex - all these people claim to know > with absolute certainty that their God wants them to do these > things. Well, I take them at their word, and I say in response that > that God deserves to die. > > The Authority, then, is an ancient IDEA of God, kept alive > artificially by those who benefit from his continued existence. And with his comments about C.S. Lewis, he wrote an essay that condemned the viewpoints of The Chronicles of Narnia--and he did so in a way that was probably a little bit too harsh. (If it hadn't been so strident, it would probably have been agreed with by more people.) But he finds himself going back and saying things like this, again on Readerville: > More comments on C.S.Lewis: I've criticised his stance in Narnia > (and the adult novels too, for that matter), but I have always > praised many of the things he has said about children's literature > and narrative and so on. What's more, since we've mentioned > Screwtape, a good deal of the psychology of that book is extremely > subtle and perceptive. I don't want to condemn anyone completely. > People are too complicated for that, as Lyra realises. And also, in the ACHUKA interview, which is at the following URL: http://www.achuka.co.uk/ppint.htm he says that "The other is to trust the story. If people are reading Harry Potter (despite your reservations) ? dammit, if they're reading THE LION, THE WITCH AND THE WARDROBE ? then something in the story must have gripped them, and once gripped, twice a reader." This quote is hard to understand outside the context of the rest of the interview, but the implication there is that, even though he is so strongly opposed the C.S. Lewis, he does still think that if children find it of value then he is in favor of that. So, basically, what I am saying in about a million words, is that I think Philip Pullman often misrepresents himself through sensationalism by making himself sound a little more extremist than he actually is. He really is a man of very strong, often harsh viewpoints, but this aspect of his personality is a bit overplayed, I suspect, by the perception we get of him through primarily formal communications. I get the feeling that the real Philip Pullman is much less inclined toward absolutist statements, etc. At least, that's my understanding from the little hints I've seen. Either way, whether or not I agree with all of what he has to say, I do respect his opinion, as I suspect pretty much all of us here do. -Luke From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 7 21:31:27 2002 From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catorman) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 21:31:27 -0000 Subject: Great books and DVDs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "ameliagoldfeesh" wrote: > > > I have discovered Dorothy L. Sayers! Congratulations! One of my favourites as well. A word of warning, however; I was delighted to discover a year or so ago that DLS had started a sequel to Busman's Honeymoon - a book which in itself is very flawed to me (my favourite is Gaudy Night, for the main plot, not the romantic aside - I think Lord Peter behaves very crassly with Harriet up until that point). The sequel is "Thrones, Dominations" and is finished/cowritten by Jill Paton Walsh - another author I really admire, particularly for her "Knowledge of Angels", but this book is terrible, truly terrible. All IMHO, of course, but I would recommend that people not touch it with a 10ft broomstick. Catherine From tabouli at unite.com.au Thu Aug 8 02:24:47 2002 From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 12:24:47 +1000 Subject: Tacked on the social wall Message-ID: <003201c23e82$d78ce180$c78586cb@price> Amy: > HDM may merit being banned from library shelves and so on, but it isn't a worldwide phenomenon. HP is scarier because so many of us are lapping it up. (I admit, I have to admire people who are willing to face down a juggernaut like HP.)< Mmmmyes, but I don't think HP has established sacred cow status in the same way Narnia has (except possibly among children and literacy advocates!). It may, but I don't think it has at this stage. My impression was that HP cops a *lot* of criticism, from two main groups: the book-burning fundamentalists who declare it subversive and satanic and the superior intellectuals who deride it as derivative and juvenile. I'm, well, not overly admiring of either of those groups. I have more time for people who attempt a balanced critique without either kowtowing to bestseller lists or resorting to ivory toweresque sneering. Grey Wolf: > How's my new haircut/trousers/shoes/car/whatever? Those people that do not wish to offend normally use the famed "As long as you like it" phrase -which comes to mean that you don't like it but it's not you the one going around with horrible haircut, anyway.< This raises a fledgeling theory of mine about a broad cultural difference between Anglophones and Western Europeans: the notion of the 'personal wall', for want of a better word. In my experience, the Western Europeans generally seem more... self-contained, somehow. Much less dependent on social affirmation than Anglophones. If they disagree on something, they'll debate it frankly and unashamedly. If they think something, they'll say it. Not doing so isn't held to be 'tactless' and 'unsupportive' and 'damaging to people's self-esteem', it's considered to be a bit weak and wishy-washy and insincere. Anglophones, OTOH, have much more permeable social walls, and thus tend to be more vulnerable to how people perceive them. Hence the whole obsession with diplomacy and tact and 'political correctness' - their self-esteem is more vulnerable to other people. So we have all these polite but essentially meaningless rituals ("How are you?" asked to show you're a polite person showing interest in the other person, rather than because you really want to know. A ritual which both Anglophone parties recognise as such, but still engage in: the French find it infuriating) and phrasings (using very indirect language to, for example, make a request, or express disagreement, so as not to appear undiplomatic). It fits with the haircut example rather nicely. The 'as long as you like it' response presumed that the hearer won't be devastated for the rest of the day to learn their her friend doesn't like her haircut, and neither might a lot of other people, they're just saying nothing to be polite, is everyone looking at me and thinking "urk, doesn't she realise how hideous that looks? How clueless is she?" It presumes that she will shrug off what others think and continue thinking what she always thought about the haircut. It presumes that this is an OK thing to say to a friend, that one isn't expected to be "supportive" and to protect her self-esteem. Why this might be is interesting. Again I'm hampered by a lack of historical knowledge, but I imagine there might be a link to British class consciousness, and need to be held in high regard by other people in a fluid, status-conscious society or something. Any thoughts? Tabouli. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From tabouli at unite.com.au Thu Aug 8 02:26:46 2002 From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 12:26:46 +1000 Subject: His Dark Mother Message-ID: <003801c23e83$0be52640$c78586cb@price> Luke: > I think Philip Pullman often misrepresents himself through sensationalism by making himself sound a little more extremist than he actually is.< (grins). Hey, why not. I admire people with the courage to provoke. I'm apt to be a little cowardly on that front. Or, perhaps, more concerned with sinister social science than I am with expressing my own views when they conflict violently with other people's, especially in person (in writing is much easier, for various reasons). A lot of people seem to spend most of their time socialising with people who are similar to themselves. Who hold similar views, are of similar demographic profile, and so on. It's affirming. But it also limits your breadth of perspective on things. Me, I like to dabble in a range of circles, and if some of them hold views very different from mine, so much the better, I'm being educated. It helps that there are few subjects on which I have a certain, stridently held opinion. I can think of only two occasions on which I felt strongly enough about a difference of opinion to cease contact with someone, one over homophobia (which the person in question espoused in a way I found utterly contemptible), and one over politics (this person espoused a ruthless survival of the fittest philosophy - no welfare state should exist At All because it's unfair to people who *want* to work - from the perspective of someone whose parents are very wealthy and has never known anyone who would be dead were it not for social security). Both situations caught me by surprise - I actually berated myself for restricting my perspective in that way - but there you have it. Moreover, *both* individuals were very similar to me demographically. To return more specifically to Philip Pullman (SPOILER WARNING!), any thoughts on his characters? One thing I noticed immediately was that he has no shortage of strong female characters at all. Plenty of 'em flitting around the trilogy, quite apart from Lyra. And I did like the Dark Mother Figure. Now there's a villain worth reckoning with. Especially with that ghastly golden monkey of hers. I never quite figured what her motivations were, though - sure, she was power-hungry and ruthless, but to what end? What was she trying to achieve (pre maternal epiphany)? Did anyone figure this out, or did Pullman leave it deliberately obscure? I admit I groaned when the "Eve" twist was unveiled at the end of Book 2. It felt a bit trite, or... something, but never mind. I also wasn't totally sold on the temptation scene... surely the real temptation wasn't falling in love, but staying together whatever the cost to themselves and the universe. I've read Pullman's explanation of it all (Mary is the serpent, who teaches them how to fall in love and gives them fruit and the rest), but it still seems to me that the new Adam and Eve *don't* succumb to the far more tempting temptation offered them at all, they behave like good children, do what they're told by a higher authority (Xaphania), and sacrifice their own self-interest to save the universe. Which sits a little awkwardly with Pullman's overall message. I liked the concept of Dust, though. And daemons. Very clever. And I'm always in favour of non-humanoid intelligent creatures, so the mulefa appeal. Does anyone know enough about skeletal structure to know if a diamond shaped skeleton is plausible? Two other series came irresistably to mind as I read Pullman - one being Madeleine L'Engle's "A Wrinkle in Time" trilogy and the other being Tanith Lee's "The White Unicorn" trilogy. Parallels on a number of levels, though neither of these is as dense and complex. Any thoughts from people who've read them? Tabouli. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From tabouli at unite.com.au Thu Aug 8 02:33:40 2002 From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 12:33:40 +1000 Subject: Tacked full correction Message-ID: <005701c23e84$02518fa0$c78586cb@price> Touch of trouble with the double negatives there: I should have said: "If they think something, they'll say it. Not doing so isn't held to be 'tactful' and 'supportive' and 'protective of people's self-esteem', it's considered to be a bit weak and wishy-washy and insincere" Tabouli. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dradamsapple at yahoo.com Thu Aug 8 04:36:27 2002 From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 04:36:27 -0000 Subject: VERY OT! In-Reply-To: <003201c23e13$9f1bdfa0$024e28d1@oemcomputer> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Saitaina" wrote: > Anna wrote: > > I about to embark on my first ever camping trip **what do you mean I > can't bring my hair dryer?** 8-(> > > My advice is to ENJOY IT. Don't think about what you don't have, think about what you do, your with your family, in the beauty that is nature. Forget about the life waiting you back home, just enjoy the moment you have then. > > More advice, Pack books, extra batteries for flashlights (even if you are in the cottage, trust me on this), hell pack extra batteries for everything that may need it. > As for recipes my favorite is campside eclaires. > > Also there are more things you can cook in aluminum (tin) foil then you could imagine so I recommend playing around with it. > I hope this helps. I've had years of camping under my belt (some good...some awful) but I've never once regretted a trip...except the one where my foster father threw a wrench at me but that's another story. :) > > > Saitaina > Who has been camping since she was old enough to ask "Are we there yet?" > **** > Oh hell, someone wake me when my happy ending starts... I wouldn't want to miss the flying pigs and ice skating demons. > > Saitaina, Thanks for the response! I can't wait to try the chocolate eclair recipe! As for reading, I just printed out about 145 pages of the last three chapters of some of the fics I'm reading (DV9 by Cassie Claire; The Triangle Prophecy and The Lost Generation both by Barb Purdom). Now, if I can only figure out a way to keep from reading all this *before* Sunday (we're driving up to Vermont, about a 5-6 hour drive from here), I'll be all set!! Anna . . . P.S., I've just tried to "season" the new wrought iron pans we bought for cooking: I've so far set off the smoke alarm twice, and scared my husband to actually getting out of bed to come see what all the smoke was about! A. :+] From strijkg at xs4all.nl Thu Aug 8 08:31:57 2002 From: strijkg at xs4all.nl (Riet Strijker) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 10:31:57 +0200 (West-Europa (zomertijd)) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Great books and DVDs References: Message-ID: <3D522C7D.000001.81969@xbwesrtn> Catherine wrote: "The sequel is "Thrones, Dominations" and is finished/cowritten by Jill Paton Walsh - another author I really admire, particularly for her "Knowledge of Angels", but this book is terrible, truly terrible. All IMHO, of course, but I would recommend that people not touch it with a 10ft broomstick." I have to agree with that. DLS is one of my favorite writers (and of course Lord Peter is one of my very favorite characters), so I bought this book but I really can't finish it, because it's so terrible. Riet Yahoo! Groups Sponsor I'm a Man Woman seeking a Woman Man Enter city or ZIP ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________ Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/ Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying! Is your message... An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements. Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie. Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups. None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter. Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com ____________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mike at aberforthsgoat.net Thu Aug 8 08:35:55 2002 From: mike at aberforthsgoat.net (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 10:35:55 +0200 Subject: Dark Messages & Opaque Plots References: Message-ID: <005a01c23eb6$9dc4b700$0200a8c0@shasta> Amy quoted Tabouli quoting me, > > > However, as a guy who who puts up with long hours > > > and a low salary to work for a Christian church, I have trouble not > > > resenting Pullman's wholesale condemnation of his religion. You know, one of these days I'm *really* going to have to learn how to write. Assuming I do, I'll also have to get around to the difference between the third ("his" religion) and first ("my" religion) person singlular possesive pronouns. So no, I wasn't accusing Pullman of religious masochism; I was just being illiterate. * * * * * Tabouli wondered, > Third, would Pullman's portrayal of Christianity > bother you less if you *weren't* working for a > pittance for a Christian church? If, perhaps, you > were a senior figure of a different religion? > Hmmm... I think it would - and the more closely Pullman could be associated with my own religion (and paycheck), the more uncomfortable I would feel. In fact, it comforts me to know that Pullman *isn't* a Christian. If he were, and if he were writing popular, mainstream books that pilloried, say, Confucians the way he pillories Christians, I would feel accutely embarassed. Being irritated with a mildly deranged gadfly is more pleasant than having to aplogize for it and is better for public relations, too. Of course, if I were a Parsi priest, I might not care one way or the other. I might feel that a careful reading of Zarathustra on topics like God, evil and freedom would have been helpful for everyone involed - but since Parsis generally avoid proselytization, I don't suppose I would write a letter to the editor about it. (Sincerest apolgies to any Parsis here, if I've missed the boat!) BTW, there are, and always have been, Christians writing books that constitute a theolgical (if not aesthetic) mirror image of Pullman's work. A gentleman called Frank Perretti wrote a whole series back in the 80s (This Present Darkness); Tim Lahay and Jerry Jenkins are still at it (in the Left Behind series). The aesthetic, philosophical and moral qualities of their work can be summed up rather quickly: drivel. (Those are books my children will *not* be reading, btw.) * * * * * Tabouli also mentioned the Overdog / Underdog problem I won't quote here, but it makes sense. I think it's coupled with an insider / outsider syndrome: Some people (not all) in some cultures (particularly western, more or less emancipated ones, I think) find it much easier to criticize things if they perceive themselves as party to the things they criticize. Take the paragraph above: even if I disliked Pullman as much as Perretti or Jenkins-LeHay (which I don't - I may not like the chip on his shoulder, but he's still an artist), I still wouldn't call *his* book drivel. Or is this just a post-modern attempt at noblesse oblige? * * * * * Tabouli admitted to being puzzled > that the new Adam > and Eve *don't* succumb to the far more tempting > temptation offered them at all, they behave like > good children, do what they're told by a higher > authority (Xaphania), and sacrifice their own self- > interest to save the universe. Which sits a little > awkwardly with Pullman's overall message. Err ... yeah. Pullman seems to think Christians think the Fall was all about sex. A few Christians *did* used to think that, but they're all dead now. The more common Christian interpretation of the Fall is that Adam and Eve's decision to eat the fruit of "the knowledge of good and evil" was an act of radical self-assertion, a declaration of ultimate moral autonomy or "me-first-hood." The interesting thing is that when the children in HDM decide to sacrifice their love for the sake of an (intangible) benefit to the universe as a whole, as dictated by Xaphania, they seem to be wrestling with a very compatible question, posed in very similar terms. The only major difference is that they make the "right" decision. And somewhere in the background, we hear Aslan purring happily. (BTW, I know that there are some weak links in that chain, but I'll let someone else yank them loose!) Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) _______________________ "Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been bravery...." From dfrankiswork at netscape.net Thu Aug 8 08:37:30 2002 From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 08:37:30 -0000 Subject: His Dark Messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Luke gave us: > Philip Pullman's explanation of his religious background > in his own words. This is from a School Library Journal interview > located at: > http://slj.reviewsnews.com/index.asp? > layout=articleArchive&articleId=CA153054 > I think it could be argued from 'I Was A Rat' which though written in the form of a children's book is one of the most profoundly pessimistic pieces of writing I have come across, that Pullman's real gripe is with (human) Authorities. He may not believe in God, but the implication of that story is that the world could really do with a good one. David From foxmoth at qnet.com Thu Aug 8 10:21:45 2002 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 10:21:45 -0000 Subject: Domestic Disaster Message-ID: I've been in Chicago visiting my mother since Monday. Tuesday, I got a call from my DH saying a washing machine hose came loose and flooded a good portion of our house.They've had to rip up a lot of carpet and drill holes in the walls to dry things out. It's insured, though. DH and the boys are coping, but he says it looks like they had the bachelor party of all time. I'm due back Friday. I, er, can't wait to get home. :-P Soggily Pippin From meboriqua at aol.com Thu Aug 8 13:31:28 2002 From: meboriqua at aol.com (jenny_ravenclaw) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 13:31:28 -0000 Subject: His Dark Mother In-Reply-To: <003801c23e83$0be52640$c78586cb@price> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tabouli" wrote: > To return more specifically to Philip Pullman (SPOILER WARNING!), any thoughts on his characters? One thing I noticed immediately was that he has no shortage of strong female characters at all. Plenty of 'em flitting around the trilogy, quite apart from Lyra.> I particularly loved Pullman's portrayal of the witches - the way they could feel the stars on their skin... However, I didn't like the way Lyra took a back seat as soon as Will (was that his name? It has been months since I read the books) came into the story. Lyra was tough, smart and compassionate in the first book but seemed to lose some of herself when Will arrived. Suddenly he was making all of the decisions. I didn't like that. >I liked the concept of Dust, though. And daemons. Very clever.> I can't for the life of me figure out exactly what Dust is. Experience? Adulthood? Sexuality? I would love to have a daemon of my own, though, and have spent much time thinking about what mine would look like. What I found problematic with HDM was that some of Pullman's ideas were crystal clear but others (like Dust) were obscure or confusing. Mrs. Coulter's motives were not so easy to understand and Lyra's father was an enigma to me. Why was he so mean to Lyra? I am not Christian (I'm Jewish), so some of the symbolism may have been lost on me anyway. --jenny from ravenclaw **************************** From devika at sas.upenn.edu Thu Aug 8 14:28:01 2002 From: devika at sas.upenn.edu (devika261) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 14:28:01 -0000 Subject: Did you miss me? Message-ID: Hi everyone! It's been a loooooong time since I've posted to this list. Technically, I'm still too busy to be doing anything but studying, but I thought I could use a break. I'm taking the MCAT this August (in 9 days!!!), plus working full time and taking an MCAT prep class at night. I took this week and next week off from work so that I could stay home and study, so that's what I've been doing...most of the time anyway. It's really annoying because I only get two weeks off from work for the summer, so I'll end up working after the MCAT until classes start in September. Oh well. Classes this semester will almost be a relief because at least I'll have a few hours a day when I'm not studying or running around like a crazy maniac. Anyway, though, I just thought I'd take a quick study break and say hello to all of you. Also, I was wondering if any of you have read Michael Gerber's _Barry Trotter and the Unauthorized Parody_. My roommate, also a huge HP fan, bought it and said it was really funny. So I bought it too. That was a big mistake because now I'm tempted to read it instead of studying biology, but I just can't help myself. I'm about halfway through it and I think it's absolutely hilarious. Surprisingly so, in fact, since I don't usually go for that type of humor. If any of you have read it, I'd love to hear your opinions of it. I'll probably be lurking around this list for a while, and after the MCAT I hope to be posting more actively again. I'm trying to confront the daunting task of getting back into the main list, but I feel like the group has grown so much in the past few months that I don't know who any of the posters are, and I'm also hopelessly behind in the discussions. Not to mention the fact that if I suddenly reappear on the list, everyone will think that I'm a newbie. I'm sure I'll deal with it though--after the MCAT. So that's about it for now. Back to studying. Any words of wisdom, ways to keep my stress level down, or general pep talks would be greatly appreciated :) --Devika From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk Thu Aug 8 15:02:39 2002 From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 16:02:39 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) Subject: Racism and the BBC Message-ID: <3D52880F.000003.85893@monica> I've been listening to BBCNews24 during the day and it occurs to me that while they wouldn't dream of making racist comments about coloured or asian pople they seem to have decided that the Germans are fair game. Just over the course of two sports bulletins today I've heard two fairly offensive (in my opinion anyway) comments, both of which have been repeated. In themselves the comments weren't too bad I suppose but the BBc seem to be hellbent on portraying all Bavarians as lederhosen wearing, sausage eating stereotypes. Firstly they were referring to the end of morning competition at the European Athletics and said that the Germans were "all off eating their sausages" and then later they visited the beer tent and (in a report about the UK successes) said that "the Oompa band aren't playing God Save the Queen quite yet, actually they aren't playing anything worth listening to at all!" (Which bearing in mind the tent was full of people listening to them struck me as just plain dumb anyway). Apart from being downright rude these comments really struck me because firstly if they'd made similar comments about the Indians or Pakistanis (whichever team it is we're playing cricket against currently, I don't know I'm not watching it) their switchboard would no doubt have been flooded with complaints but because it's a group of Europeans they seem to think they can insult them all they like! Jeeze - it's no wonder we Brits just came bottom of a survey about European tourists if we go around with these attitudes. The second thing that struck me is that while I wouldn't have been surprised with comments like this being printed in the Tabloids the BBC are supposed to be 'serious' journalists, I couldn't see the Telegraph or the Times printing stuff like that. So why is it that it's practically a criminal offense to insult coloured people but the 'Frogs' and the 'Krauts' are fine, and if they complain we just say they have no sense of humour? K From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 8 17:27:48 2002 From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catorman) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 17:27:48 -0000 Subject: His Dark Mother In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "jenny_ravenclaw" wrote: > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tabouli" wrote: > > > To return more specifically to Philip Pullman (SPOILER WARNING!), > any thoughts on his characters? One thing I noticed immediately was > that he has no shortage of strong female characters at all. Plenty of > 'em flitting around the trilogy, quite apart from Lyra.> > > I particularly loved Pullman's portrayal of the witches - the way they > could feel the stars on their skin... Me too...and Mrs Coulter I thought was a very interesting character. One very minor point, which struck me on a second reading. Her Daemon always scared me - very sinister, enigmatic and ruthless - a mirror of Mrs Coulter perhaps, but to me more so. I could never figure out why until I realised - you never, ever hear him speak. Catherine From pinguthegreek at ukf.net Thu Aug 8 19:22:36 2002 From: pinguthegreek at ukf.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 20:22:36 +0100 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Racism and the BBC References: <3D52880F.000003.85893@monica> Message-ID: <000c01c23f10$f51f6fe0$ac9601d4@john> Firstly they were referring to the end of morning competition at the European Athletics and said that the Germans were "all off eating their sausages" and then later they visited the beer tent and (in a report about the UK successes) said that "the Oompa band aren't playing God Save the Queen quite yet, actually they aren't playing anything worth listening to at all!" OK, I am not defending the BBC, but you do have to bear in mind that they think thatthese kind of remarks will entertain the average British sports jock. You also have to bear in mind that the music comparison probably has to do with the successful use of pop music to fill in between times during the Commonwealth Games. I think those Games showed the world just how we have to do things at big sporting events to attract interest. They worked well and we should be proud of them. So why is it that it's practically a criminal offense to insult coloured people but the 'Frogs' and the 'Krauts' are fine, and if they complain we just say they have no sense of humour? Because racism is still associated with colour of skin in our minds, not nationality, unfortunately ! Michelle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk Thu Aug 8 19:37:07 2002 From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 20:37:07 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Racism and the BBC References: <000c01c23f10$f51f6fe0$ac9601d4@john> Message-ID: <3D52C863.000001.00245@monica> OK, I am not defending the BBC, but you do have to bear in mind that they think thatthese kind of remarks will entertain the average British sports jock. You also have to bear in mind that the music comparison probably has to do with the successful use of pop music to fill in between times during the Commonwealth Games. I think those Games showed the world just how we have to do things at big sporting events to attract interest. They worked well and we should be proud of them . I'm not entirely sure that's true since there's no direct comparison between entertainment *inside* the stadium and entertainment in the area where food and stuff is sold - and I'm not entirely sure how many sports jocks actually watch BBCNews24 at any time let alone mid afternoon on a weekday... I understand that they think these comments are funny and entertaining but that's no excuse, an organization as respected as the BBC should know better - although News24 does have a tendency to be a little amateurish at times. I will say though that having sat through this afternoon's shambles I'm beginning to think that nice as the Bavarians are they have no idea how to organize a major sporting event - it's not like they haven't done it in the past so how they could have made so many screw ups in so short a time is beyond me. A certain phrase involving piss ups and breweries is coming to mind! Someone please send the German Athletics people a rule book for goodness sake! K [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Ali at zymurgy.org Thu Aug 8 19:39:18 2002 From: Ali at zymurgy.org (alhewison) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 19:39:18 -0000 Subject: Racism and the BBC In-Reply-To: <3D52880F.000003.85893@monica> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Kathryn" wrote: > I've been listening to BBCNews24 during the day and it occurs to me that while they wouldn't dream of making racist comments about coloured or asian pople they seem to have decided that the Germans are fair game. So why is it that it's practically a criminal offense to insult coloured people but the 'Frogs' and the 'Krauts' are fine, and if they complain we just say they have no sense of humour? > > K It IS a Criminal Offence to insult somebody on the grounds of race - which is why insulting a black person is racism. The way the Act was defined though, the French and Germans are not a separate race, and therefore not covered by the Race Discrimination Act. That said, it still saddens me if "the Beeb" feel the need to stoop to those kind of tabloid -like depths. Next time I wonder why the British are often seen as Xenophobic, Lager-louts by the outside world, I'll have to remember that's how we (or at least some of us) like to be seen! Perhaps Hagrid is an accurate portrayal of a certain kind of Brit afterall! Ali (Who is not xenophobic, but does enjoy the odd drink or two) From lupinesque at yahoo.com Thu Aug 8 19:59:07 2002 From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (lupinesque) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 19:59:07 -0000 Subject: His Dark Mother In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Catherine wrote: > Her > Daemon always scared me - very sinister, enigmatic and ruthless - a > mirror of Mrs Coulter perhaps, but to me more so. I could never > figure out why until I realised - you never, ever hear him speak. I never realized that! I did notice another thing, though: you never learn his name. The pulling wings off living bats didn't add to his charms. Amy From meboriqua at aol.com Thu Aug 8 20:42:06 2002 From: meboriqua at aol.com (jenny_ravenclaw) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 20:42:06 -0000 Subject: His Dark Mother In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Catherine wrote: > > Her Daemon always scared me - very sinister, enigmatic and ruthless - a mirror of Mrs Coulter perhaps, but to me more so. I could never figure out why until I realised - you never, ever hear him speak.> Amy responded with: > I never realized that! I did notice another thing, though: you > never learn his name.> Did we ever hear others' daemons speak? I think I remember daemons only being heard by their people. We know that touching someone else's daemon is bad; I thought that speaking directly to or listening to someone else's daemon wasn't the right thing to do either, according to Pullman. I agree though, that Mrs. Coulter's monkey daemon was nearly terrifying. How clearly can you picture that golden-furred monkey? I can see that hideous thing as clearly as though it might walk into my living room at any moment. --jenny from ravenclaw, who'd like to think that my cat can take on that nasty monkey any day ******************************** From mdemeran at hotmail.com Thu Aug 8 22:15:20 2002 From: mdemeran at hotmail.com (Meg Demeranville) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 17:15:20 -0500 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Devika wrote: I'm taking the MCAT this August (in 9 days!!!), plus working full time and taking an MCAT prep class at night. I took this week and next week off from work so that I could stay home and study, so that's what I've been doing...most of the time anyway. It's really annoying because I only get two weeks off from work for the summer, so I'll end up working after the MCAT until classes start in September. Oh well. Classes this semester will almost be a relief because at least I'll have a few hours a day when I'm not studying or running around like a crazy maniac. Anyway, though, I just thought I'd take a quick study break and say hello to all of you. I'll probably be lurking around this list for a while, and after the MCAT I hope to be posting more actively again. I'm trying to confront the daunting task of getting back into the main list, but I feel like the group has grown so much in the past few months that I don't know who any of the posters are, and I'm also hopelessly behind in the discussions. Not to mention the fact that if I suddenly reappear on the list, everyone will think that I'm a newbie. I'm sure I'll deal with it though--after the MCAT. > > So that's about it for now. Back to studying. Any words of wisdom, ways to keep my stress level down, or general pep talks would be greatly appreciated :) My wise words of wisdom: Good luck! I took "the test from Hell" twice. Luckily, I am about to start medical school (August 19th). So I don't have to take the thing ever again. It is a hard test. Eat a good breakfast beforehand, and get a good lunch during the middle of the test. A friend of mine skipped both, and was dying by the time 5:00 came around. Poor guy, we all went out afterwards (my pre-medicine class was very close at school) and I think all of us where falling down tired by 11 p.m. The best way I found to keep my stress level down was walking. If I just got away from the books, I seemed to calm down. But then again, it's the MCAT and no one will ever understand the evil test. I still don't. As far as hints for the test go, there are great sites out there for MCAT prep (mnemonics and stuff). I found it came down to a time issue. Rate your passages and do the easy ones first if you can. Save the hard ones for later. The essays can be your chance to shine. I don't think they even matter though. Write them in the prescribed format and make sure you don't write about negative ideas in a positive light or vice versa (actual advice from my prep class instructor, all of our essays became anti-JFK, anti-Santa Claus, or pro-Hitler after she told us that, poor woman (yes we were a bratty bunch)). They actually won't be that bad on the test. All of our prep class essay topics were much harder than the real one. Relax and have fun, the hard stuff hasn't yet. Meg [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From darkstar_2814 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 9 01:56:29 2002 From: darkstar_2814 at yahoo.com (darkstar_2814) Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 01:56:29 -0000 Subject: HP Characters/Scooby-Doo equivalents Message-ID: Some of them are pretty self-explanatory: DAPHNE: Ginny Weasley (red-haired girl. And yes, I know Daphne's a stuck-up rich Blue Ribbon, but I couldn't think of any others). FRED: Cedric Diggory (a good-looking yuppieish guy. And I could see him wearing an ascot). SHAGGY: Neville Longbottom (nervous guy. Plus, Shaggy's real name is Norville, and I could see Neville saying "Zoinks!") VELMA: Hermione Granger (pretty self-explanatory) SCOOBY-DOO: Fang (Hagrid's dog is a Great Dane, so...) SCRAPPY-DOO: Colin Creevey (the annoying little punk you'd wanna grab by the neck and swing around till every bone in his body was snapped). Whaddya think? Jack ----------- Marty McFly: "Doc, you're telling me you built a time machine out of a DeLorean?" Emmett Brown: "The way I see it, if you're gonna travel through time, why not do it with some style." From samwise406 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 9 01:33:03 2002 From: samwise406 at yahoo.com (samwise406) Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 01:33:03 -0000 Subject: The Golden Monkey In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>>>>>>>>>>>"I could never figure out why until I realised - you never, ever hear him speak." I never realized that! I did notice another thing, though: you never learn his name.<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Just a little thing...PP did a discussion at Readerville where he mentioned something about the golden monkey. "The golden monkey doesn't have a name because every time I tried to think of one, he snarled and frightened me. What's more he hardly speaks either." He does speak once in The Amber Spyglass to Mrs. Coulter...but I don't remember where off the top of my head. The URL for the discussion is: http://www.readerville.com/WebX?14 at 89.cJOPaajdfAz.2@.ef6c70e/0 in case anyone's interested. I hope the link works. He talks about his follow up to HDM, The Book of Dust, and answers lots of questions. (Sorry if this has alread been mentioned...) Allison From lupinesque at yahoo.com Fri Aug 9 03:49:46 2002 From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (lupinesque) Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 03:49:46 -0000 Subject: The Golden Monkey In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Samwise thought: > He does speak once in The Amber Spyglass to Mrs. Coulter...but I > don't remember where off the top of my head. One possibility came to my mind, but it turns out he doesn't speak there either. It's the very end of chapter 28--she speaks to him and he just looks at her and they each know what the other is thinking (of course). No words from him. The more I think about it, the more I think there never are. We do hear daemons besides Pan speak now and then: Stelmaria (Lord Asriel's), a bird (a goose?) who is a witch's (Serafina?), Hester (Lee Scoresby's), Ama's. We don't hear much from them, it's true, but then, they get relatively little page time; in contrast, the golden monkey is written of so often that his silence is really noticeable, and creepy. Amy Z who thinks it just might be time to reread HDM From miss_megan at bigpond.com Fri Aug 9 06:49:35 2002 From: miss_megan at bigpond.com (snuffles_macgoo) Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 06:49:35 -0000 Subject: His Dark Mother In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "jenny_ravenclaw" wrote: > I can't for the life of me figure out exactly what Dust is. > Experience? Adulthood? Sexuality? I would love to have a daemon of > my own, though, and have spent much time thinking about what mine > would look like. > The goat did expalian what the Dust was last time HDM was discussed. Sorry I can't remember the number of my head. It was very clear at the time but has been lost to the fuzz in my brain (another kind of dust) storm, who would also like a Daemon From dfrankiswork at netscape.net Fri Aug 9 12:07:17 2002 From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley) Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 12:07:17 -0000 Subject: Racism (really nationalism) and the BBC In-Reply-To: <3D52880F.000003.85893@monica> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Kathryn" wrote: > So why is it that it's practically a criminal offense to insult coloured > people but the 'Frogs' and the 'Krauts' are fine, and if they complain we > just say they have no sense of humour? I would say that in sports reporting generally the standard of journalism is lower, both in the press and the broadcast media. The standard of English is lower, the thinking is less coherent, the standard of scrutiny when there is suspected skulduggery is less exacting. On nationality in particular, I think sport contains what Marx would call an internal contradiction between its competitive nature and the ideal of bringing people together through it. Part of winning is the psychological warfare that surrounds the actual event (think of boxing press conferences for an extreme example) and part of that is pumping up your own supporters, and part of that is caricaturing the opposition. One solution is to detach the participants from their nations, as is theoretically the case in the Olympics, but that example shows how hopeless it is. For team events you still need some basis for team formation. In that respect, nationalism is harder to eliminate from reporting than racism. The first B in BBC stands for British, after all. David From lupinesque at yahoo.com Fri Aug 9 19:04:11 2002 From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (lupinesque) Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 19:04:11 -0000 Subject: Racism and the BBC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ali wrote: > Next time I wonder why the British are often seen as Xenophobic, > Lager-louts by the outside world, I'll have to remember that's how we > (or at least some of us) like to be seen! Perhaps Hagrid is an > accurate portrayal of a certain kind of Brit afterall! Hagrid only starts spouting xenophobic trash when he's been thrown over by his French girlfriend--not very nice but you can see why he isn't at his best. What's the Beeb's excuse? Amy Z a sports fan who's entertained by sports, not by racist, nationalist, sexist, xenophobic, or just plain stupid remarks P.S. Don't worry, I know you're not a xenophobic lager-lout--love the phrase, though From s_ings at yahoo.com Sat Aug 10 00:01:50 2002 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 20:01:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Happy Birthday, Laura! Message-ID: <20020810000150.2981.qmail@web14606.mail.yahoo.com> *blows up balloons and tosses confetti around the room, taking time out to place a cake and a keg of butterbeer on the side table* Today's birthday honouree is Laura. Birthday owls can be sent care of this list or directly to her at: devilsangel0809 at aol.com I hope your day has been filled with magic, joy and lots of chocolate frogs! Happy Birthday, Laura! Sheryll ===== "We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times." blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26 ______________________________________________________________________ Post your ad for free now! http://personals.yahoo.ca From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 10 06:38:58 2002 From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda the Witch) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 23:38:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Birthday, Laura! In-Reply-To: <20020810000150.2981.qmail@web14606.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020810063858.77228.qmail@web13701.mail.yahoo.com> Sheryll Townsend wrote: I hope your day has been filled with magic, joy and lots of chocolate frogs! Happy Birthday, Laura! Sheryll ===== All these parties! More butterbeer and goodies to eat! But, before partying on, HAPPY BIRTHDAY LAURA! When you make your wish, hope it comes true! Have a great time on your special day! Schnoogles, Wanda the Witch ofRevere,Massachusetts andHer Very Merry Band of Muggles 100%! "When you come to the edge of all the light you know, and are about to step off into the darkness of the unknown, faith is knowing one of two things will happen; There will be something solid to stand on, or you will be taught how to fly."......Unknown. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs, a Yahoo! service - Search Thousands of New Jobs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mike at aberforthsgoat.net Sat Aug 10 14:06:42 2002 From: mike at aberforthsgoat.net (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 16:06:42 +0200 Subject: Any bass players / Tower of Power fans in here? References: <20020810063858.77228.qmail@web13701.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000b01c24077$2948fbd0$0200a8c0@shasta> If so, I have a plea: Bass legend Rocco Prestia - the four-stringer with the incredible old, new und forever R&B band Tower of Power - very recently underwent surgery for a life-saving liver transplant. He has gigantic medical bills and his fan base is trying to help raise $300,000 to cover costs. Rocco may not be as famous in the general public as John Entwhistle (another famous bass player who died last week), but among bass enthusiasts and people who love the kind of music that hovers in that undefinable sweet-spot between jazz, rock, funk and blues, he's an icon. If there's anyone else around with a spot for that sweet soul music ToP has spent the last 30+ years making, please skip on over to http://www.francisroccoprestia.com and leave a donation (by paypal). BTW, yes, it's for real. I don't usually do stuff like this, but Rocco's bass playing revolutionized my musical life the same way HP revolutionized my reading life. Perhaps more so - in HP's case HPfGU probably had at least as much to do with it all as Mr. Potter himself. Rocco, on the other hand, did it all by himself. Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) _______________________ "Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been bravery...." From john at queerasjohn.com Sat Aug 10 16:13:41 2002 From: john at queerasjohn.com (Queer as John) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 12:13:41 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: His Dusty, Daemonic Mother In-Reply-To: Message-ID: [Aside note -- this is my new address, john at queerasjohn.com. The old .vu address is still working but I wanted to keep it for personal use. --John] >> Tabouli scribeth: >> I liked the concept of Dust, though. And daemons. Very clever. > Whence Jenny replieth, > I can't for the life of me figure out exactly what Dust is. > Experience? Adulthood? Sexuality? I would love to have a daemon of > my own, though, and have spent much time thinking about what mine > would look like. Jenny, the cat you want to steal is currently attempting to sit on my keyboard. Something tells me that this sounds *exactly* what my daemon would do. See, I'd have to have a cat daemon so that I could cuddle it and look evil. Yes. Quick question -- does anyone in the books have a daemon of the same gender as themselves? If not, perhaps there's an interesting gender-daemonic musing to be made there. Is the daemon the suppressed inner opposite gender in us all? On the Dusty Question, I've always thought (it's been a year since I've read the books, although I'm attempting to convince one of the kids I teach to read them) that Dust is Knowledge. And I have a feeling that it's The Knowledge of Everything -- "Science", if you will. (I use "science" in quotes so as not to refer to Physics-Chemistry-Biology science, but rather its morphological meaning -- Knowledge.) >From what I remember of Paradise Lost (the one by Milton, not Thomas!), the Apple in the Garden represents Knowledge. Unfortunately I don't have my annotated copy to hand, or I'd quote bits at it. Something that just popped into mind about daemons -- there's a passage in Paradise Lost where a bridge is being built to Pandaemonium (the city in Hell). My mind just drew a parallel between the "link" between the daemon and the human as shown in the daemon-snipping in HDM and the destruction of the bridge to Pandaemonium in PL. Oh...Ohhhh...Ooooohhhhhhhhh... (can you hear the sound of an epiphany here?) I've figured out why Lyra's daemon is named Pan. It's not the Greek God...but rather the city in Hell, Pan*daemon*ium. Oooh, crafty Philip Pullman. Naughty crafty Philip Pullman. Oh, am *so* going to mull over this. Tee hee hee! --John _________________________________________________ Queer as John || john at queerasjohn.com LJ @ www.queerasjohn.com YM @ queerasjohn "There's nowt as queer as folk." --English proverb _________________________________________________ From editor at texas.net Sat Aug 10 17:43:18 2002 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Geist) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 12:43:18 -0500 Subject: Attack of the Skrewt Spawn Message-ID: <001a01c24095$6bc9fea0$c27663d1@texas.net> Allow me to quote the description of Blast-Ended Skrewts: " They looked like deformed, shell-less lobsters, horribly pale and slimy-looking, with legs sticking out in very odd places and no visible heads." It is my sad and sober duty to inform you all, and to warn those of you who live in dry, desert areas, that Hagrid is evidently *not* the first wizard to breed such things. A close relative of the Skrewts evidently escaped and has established itself in the native fauna. I know this because I killed one in my garage a couple of days ago. This creature, cleverly sensing the absence of my husband, He Who Must Deal With Bugs, invaded the *day* he left. And it chose its time well. Picture this.....a sleepy woman remembers she has not fed the cat (aided in this by the cat making a constant stream of trills and hopeful little forays toward the garage, wherein are his food and water bowls). Sleepy woman, I point out, is wearing no shoes, which is very stupid given the fact that (a) the cat's attitude toward his box has been very cavalier for quite a while, (b) the garage is where I see most of the recluses (although the odds that they can bite before being crushed against concrete are small, unlike when you sit on them on upholstery or stand on them on carpet); (c) the garage is also a very likely place for scorpions (in fact, the carcass of a rather large dead one is, even as we speak, under the bag of cat food, startling me on a regular basis, but I never have anything to hand to deal with it and simpy make yet another quickly-forgotten mental note to clear it away in a bit). So no shoes is not the brightest way to go into the garage, but the foregoing should also let you all know that I am not entirely unprepared or unfamiliar with creepies in the garage. Okay. I turn on the light, open the door, and stand on the step in the garage. Leon (the cat) comes through the cat door in the wall and begins his loop-through-the-legs-and-cat-food-bag routine. A movement on the garage floor (a couple inches below the raised area where the freezer sits) catches my eye, and I think it is a scorpion, a large one. I look. It's not. I don't know what it is. Let me say now that I am a native Texan and have lived 37 1/2 of my 38 years here. With the exception of about four years in Austin, all of that time was in San Antonio. The most recent seven years were in this very house. And I have never, never, never, *ever* seen anything like this thing crawling (very fast)towards me. I am horrified. It moves like a scorpion, in very fast little jerky rushes. Scorpions, in fact, are loved by most cats because they move like cat toys and are fun to play with (cats are way too fast to get stung). Not my cat, though, of course, so no help in this situation either. Leon looked at this creature and promptly ignored it, just as I have seen him watch a scorpion walk past him, and he continues his "feed me" routine, getting massively in the way as I try simultaneously to keep this thing in sight, stay away from it, make sure I'm not stepping on any known evils while dealing with the unknown, and find something to kill it with. Even if Jan were here, it's moving too fast for me to go for help, and I am NOT going to allow anything that looks like this to get away alive. I am finding it a bit hard to look away from this thing, making it even more difficult. This is true horrified fascination. It has two very long front legs (I find out later they aren't legs, but such was my impression at the time) held up and out, in the exact attitude you take when you are playing scary monster with your kids and are chasing them--extended over its head (except it doesn't look like it has a head) and forward. The pattern on its back is very reminiscent of the scale pattern on a scorpion, and the color is similar--that, combined with its movement, makes my mind *still* try to make it a scorpion even when I can see it's not. It comes up the little raised shelf and I do a creditable imitation of those ladies in cartoons on chairs, jumping back onto the step below the door. [To my credit, I don't think I yelled.] It goes back down, I jump down and grab one of a pair of sandals that's in the garage because Leon hairballed in them and I haven't had time to clean them out yet. I check for recluses beneath and on the sandal--none. Good. I killed one under a garbage bag out here last trash day. I look for The Thing. It has gone along the edge of the raised area, heading toward some of the Stuff piled in here, and is perilously close to escaping. This thing is not only as fast as a scorpion, it doesn't stop like they do, it's in continuous motion, little rushes. I quickly scan the vicinity for other nasties, see none, vault the catbox, miss the cat poop, and smite this thing. It doesn't stop moving, but it stops going anywhere, which I interpret with some satisfaction as death throes. Eventually it does stop moving. It's not moving and I am no longer threatened. I am still staring in horrified fascination. I don't know what this thing is. A closer look is unpleasant, because the oddities I noticed are reinforced. I wish they'd been tricks of the light or the adrenaline, but what I saw was accurate. It has a body like a spider, and those front things can't be legs because it has eight other ones. It's about the size--for those of you in the US--of a large one of those big garden spiders that roam the grass, a diameter (including legs) of about 2 to 2-1/2 inches. Its head is awful. It looks like a peach--just a groove, no eyes that I can see, no features. The head is shiny. The butt (whatever that is in bugspeak) is indeed the color and pattern of a scorpion, but no stinger. I am afraid to touch it and leave it where it lies. I wonder if an alien ship has landed nearby and what other odd things may be happening by. This looks like it belongs in a cave. It's still there, by the way--I keep sneaking glances at it when I'm feeding my useless cat, to make sure it hasn't reanimated and snuck off to plot revenge. I was *totally* creeped out by this. Last night, with Catherine's help, I did a Google search and *found* the thing. It's called a sun spider. Or camel spider. Or whipscorpion or windscorpion (due to its speed). I found the site of some lunatic who takes pictures of arachnids as a hobby (rest easy, any of you who thought *we* were weird), and I made a positive identification. [This guy even has *movies* of this thing, if anyone is masochistic enough to want to see how it moves.] But it's not natural, I refuse to believe it. No, this is another wizarding thing that escaped, some experiment of a teacher or student at the Texas wizarding academy. Like horny toads, creatures like this are positive evidence that there is a wizarding population in this area. To my disgust, the magic control office has as much problem with people taking vacation in the summer as other offices, and nobody has shown up to Obliviate my encounter with this (which I would appreciate). Anyway, I now give you the URL so you can see the Skrewt spawn. It's clearly related to Hagrid's larger blasting Skrewts. From the descriptions I found, this subspecies does not shoot fire. Thank all the good gods. I must warn you, not only is this thing hideous, the lunatic taking the picture has it sitting on his *foot* and his *hand.* This makes my skin crawl on two levels, the thing itself and the thought of it touching me. I still won't even poke the body with a stick; He Who Deals With Bugs must handle it when he gets back. This is beyond me trapping stuff under bowls and cups and balancing large unabridged dictionaries on top to keep them there until he can arrive and handle it; this thing had to die and I'm even ooked out by the carcass. Looking at the pictures, I can see the tiny black eyes buried in the crevice, but they are much less harder to see on the one I met. And mine was larger. In a word. Eeurgh. --Amanda the Skrewt-Killer http://wrbu.si.edu/www/stockwell/photos/solpugid4.jpg http://wrbu.si.edu/www/stockwell/photos/solpugid6.jpg http://wrbu.si.edu/www/stockwell/photos/solpugid2.jpg From john at queerasjohn.com Sat Aug 10 18:54:46 2002 From: john at queerasjohn.com (Queer as John) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 14:54:46 -0400 Subject: His Pandaemonic Milton In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Okay, having zooted down to the library for a copy of Paradise Lost (again, Milton's, not Thomas'!), some exposition on Pandaemonium... _________________________________________________ >From Paradise Lost, Book I, lines 755-6: "...Pandaemonium, the high Capitol / of Satan and his Peers..." fn.: "Pandaemonium: the name, from Greek (pan = all) and (daemon = spirit or deity) and the conception seem indebted to Henry More's _Pandaemoniothen_, which signifies the dominion of the devils in this world, which is so densely inhabited by personified sins of all kinds that: "What Poets phancies fain'd to be in Hell / Are truly here, A Vulture Tytius heart / Still gnaws, yet death doth never Tytius quell: / Sad Sisyphus a stone with toylsome smart / Doth roul up hill, but it transcends his art, / To get it to the top, ..." (_Psychozoia_ I, iii, 1-6) -- from Hughes, _John Milton: Complete Poems and Major Prose_. _________________________________________________ Hmm. Much to ponder, yes? --John _________________________________________________ Queer as John || john at queerasjohn.com LJ @ www.queerasjohn.com YM @ queerasjohn "There's nowt as queer as folk." --English proverb _________________________________________________ From john at queerasjohn.com Sat Aug 10 18:57:22 2002 From: john at queerasjohn.com (Queer as John) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 14:57:22 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Attack of the Skrewt Spawn In-Reply-To: <001a01c24095$6bc9fea0$c27663d1@texas.net> Message-ID: Amanda Geist said: > " They looked like deformed, shell-less lobsters, horribly pale and > slimy-looking, with legs sticking out in very odd places and no visible > heads." Eww. Allow me to restate how glad I am that the largest form of insect I've seen here in upstate NY is a large flying thing which went SPROING against my bug screen last night and promptly fell dead against the outer windowledge. Urk. Amanda, remind me again exactly *why* you live in Texas? *grin* --John _________________________________________________ Queer as John || john at queerasjohn.com LJ @ www.queerasjohn.com YM @ queerasjohn "There's nowt as queer as folk." --English proverb _________________________________________________ From editor at texas.net Sat Aug 10 19:52:48 2002 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Geist) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 14:52:48 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Attack of the Skrewt Spawn References: Message-ID: <001101c240a7$82688840$117c63d1@texas.net> > Urk. Amanda, remind me again exactly *why* you live in Texas? *grin* I was born here. To lift a line from Calvin and Hobbes, a biological conspiracy. I wasn't consulted. It does not seem to have really registered with Jan--although I tell him every summer and after other major interactions with the insect world--that if we moved somewhere I *choose* to be, I can't really bitch. If I picked the place, it's my own fault and I won't point up my bad judgement. However, at the moment I'm in a place not of my own choosing, which Fate has thrust upon me, and I bitch all the time. I'm not pleasant to be around from about March to October (although this has been a mild summer, I don't think we even broke 100 yet! Wow....). My dream is to live somewhere where they *do not* have scorpions and they *do* have snow. That doesn't seem too much to ask. I want to run a B&B somewhere. I've flown to Pittsburgh and driven back down to Charlotte, NC; I've been in New York state (Downsville, Ithaca) and driven from there to Ohio. I've been in Canada (Niagara Falls). These are areas so lovely that my soul weeps and I want to just stop the car and get out and stay there and screw the details; everything suddenly seems less important than my staying in a place that my heart resonates to. I had never, in all my life, been anywhere that my soul smiled just to look out the window, no matter my emotional state, until I lived in Charlotte for a few months. I want to live somewhere with trees, real trees taller than houses, with graceful straight trunks, that form Gothic arches over streets far above the streetlights. I want to live somewhere I can see mountains. South Texas is a flat land, with lovely sunsets that reach around half the circle of the horizon. Still, sometimes there are thunderheads in the distance or a front is coming through and the clouds pile onto themselves on the horizon and reach into the sky. In the sunset, in the twilight, driving down a road and seeing the clouds against the sky in front of me, I can persuade myself to see mountains there.... and I remember again how very far up the sky they can reach, how they dominate the land they look over, how they color every moment just by being there, and the air tastes different in my mouth, cooler and more remote, and my skin remembers autumn on it even in the summer, and I wonder if this time, maybe, if I do everything just exactly right, I'll notice a turning of road that I'd overlooked before, take it, and reach them...... I know that there are people who find that Texas speaks to their souls; I'm just not one of them. Much of my belief in reincarnation (don't tell my priest) stems from how "in the wrong place" I felt growing up; Texas as a land does not call to me. I didn't realize how much it didn't, until I found places that did. My oldest friend, Catherine, and I both hate coming home from trips; that last day that sees you back in Texas, getting back into the cedar and mesquite trees and savannah, driving forward and yearning back. The part of Texas that I'm in is the best that I've found, if you are still in Texas. I'm here until I'm somewhere else. And I will live somewhere that makes my soul sing, before I die. J'espere. --Amanda, waxing poetic, my heavens From lupinesque at yahoo.com Sat Aug 10 20:51:04 2002 From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (lupinesque) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 20:51:04 -0000 Subject: His Daemonic Masculinity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John wrote: > Quick question -- does anyone in the books have a daemon of the same gender > as themselves? If not, perhaps there's an interesting gender- daemonic musing > to be made there. Is the daemon the suppressed inner opposite gender in us > all? Bernie, the pastry cook of Jordan College, is described as "a kindly, solitary man, one of those rare people whose daemon was the same sex as himself" (NL/GC 7). As a friend said when I was explaining daemons to him and said that there were very few people with a daemon of the same sex, "about one in ten." It made me laugh, but it seems far rarer than that because I don't think we ever see anyone else whose daemon is identified that way. I don't think Pullman is suggesting that it corresponds to sexual orientation, but yes, I think the daemon is usually the other gender because it completes us, and I think Pullman is saying a lot about the meaning of gender by making most daemons the complement of their people. I don't know exactly what Jung meant by anima and animus, but that's one of the ways I think about daemons. So is Bernie out of balance, or are masculine and feminine sufficiently integrated in him that his daemon doesn't need to be female? I have a lot of thoughts on Dust but sadly, did not opt to write this week's sermon on HDM (gotta do that soon) so must return to that instead. Amy Z still waiting for her meerkat daemon to tell her his name, or--intake of breath--show up in the periphery of her vision From caliburncy at yahoo.com Sun Aug 11 03:47:14 2002 From: caliburncy at yahoo.com (caliburncy) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 03:47:14 -0000 Subject: Dust in "His Dark Materials" Message-ID: Hi, Well, since there seems to be some effort on the part of others to get a discussion started on Dust, I will forward here part of a letter that I sent to Jenny from Ravenclaw offlist when we discussed this in the past. Obviously, my copying it here now will not directly help Jenny out in her ongoing study of Dust, since any use she could possibly have gleaned from my vague and unenlightening comments she would have acquired already when I sent it to her the first time. But maybe this will serve as a starting point for other people to comment from, and maybe in that way Jenny and any other interested persons will reap the benefits from those later responses. So here are my comments to Jenny when she asked me what my opinion was of just what Dust was intended to represent. ================================================================== Hmm . . . that's a tough question really, because personally I'm not convinced that Pullman intended one single analoguous word to be put to it, which of course would be why you are struggling with it. Obviously, I do think Dust represents just one thing, not many things, but I'm not sure that it's something we have an ideal word for--so it seems to be like a compilation of many words, none of which is quite right, but the sum total of which gives us an inkling perhaps of what is really being described. For example, I have seen the following words applied to Dust, and none seems quite the "perfect" fit. ----------------------------------------------------- Sin or any particular sin (i.e. your example of lust) ----------------------------------------------------- This is certainly how the Church views Dust, but the people who seem to have the greatest understanding of Dust (Lord Asriel, Mrs. Coulter, John Parry, etc.) all appear to be somewhat aware that there is more to it than that. I even got the impression that Father MacPhail (that guy at the head of the Church) knew there was more to it beyond the party line. Pullman was certainly drawing a comparison between Dust and Original Sin in the story of Adam and Eve (particularly as understood by the Catholic Church in our world--many other denominations, such as the one I am in, do not really talk about or acknowledge a concept of Original Sin). I am not exactly positive how the Catholic Church would describe Original Sin therefore, but I think it tends to be equated with knowledge (because the apple is from the Tree of Knowledge). -------------------- Knowledge/Experience -------------------- Obviously, these two terms are not synonyms, but I will address them together for the purposes of comparison to Dust. Both of these, to some extent, explain why Dust accumulates around adults and not children, although that makes it a bit strange that the change is fairly abrupt, rather than gradually accumulating. In terms of the Adam and Eve story, although the translation tends to be "knowledge", this seems a bit limited, because ultimately what we are probably talking about is the quality that (allegedly) distinctifies humans from other animals. Because up until this point, humans are still innocent, but afterwards they are not. It is the same reason we could never condemn the brutality of nature, because nature just *is* that way--it is, in its own way, innocent, and unaware and/or not subject to the human interpretations of morality. Another way of interpreting the "knowledge" translation in the Adam and Eve story is as knowledge of the divine--possessing some portion of the knowledge that previously God alone had possessed. But I don't think that this, so much as the above comparison, is the one Pullman was probably trying to make. ----------------- Loss of Innocence ----------------- Often times, experience is also equated with a loss of innocence, probably not so much because they are perceived as antonyms as because in our life experiences we tend to find that gaining experience inevitably does include some sort of loss of innocence. In HDM, this begins quite early for Lyra (not agewise, necessarily--I mean 'early' in the sense that she has already lost a great deal of innocence by the end of the first book). She is taken out of a place of childish fun and thoughtlessness, and made to question many things she had not previously thought to consider alternatives to. And she finds everything out in the world to be much more complex and dangerous than anticipated. This is, of course, a common element of growing up. But as for where Dust comes into this picture, it is basically in the sense that adults have lost this innocence for whatever reason, and children have not. There are all sorts of pre/post Lyra (or Will, too) distinctions that can be made to show how she has lost some of her innocence--and not in a bad way, just a necessary one--but none of these are shown to be the result of Dust, and they happen gradually. It is more likely that Dust results from them, and its accumulation, by contrast, seems to occur abruptly. So it's back to the same basic comparison as with knowledge/experience. ---------------- Sexual Awakening ---------------- Loss of innocence is often symbolized in literature through sexual awakening, whether because adolescence is the threshold to adulthood or whether out of an archetypal comparison to virginity or whether out of some other reason deeply ingrained in the human psyche, I cannot say. Pullman certainly takes advantage of this symbolism, even makes it quite literal, in the sense that it is following the scene with the apple and the kiss that the Dust converges on Will and Lyra, so though is no doubt that Dust is intrinsically connected to the sexual awakening. But I do not think that Dust itself is solely a symbol of sexual awakening, because following the logic of degrees of separation if Dust is a symbol of sexual awakening, and sexual awakening is a symbol of loss of innocence, then the possibility that Dust is also a symbol of loss of innocence must be taken into consideration. --------------------------------- Planes of Consciousness/Sentience --------------------------------- Allow me to jump backward real quickly to the Adam and Eve story and the idea that Dust may symbolize what separates humans from animals, or even (if less scientifically so) children from adults. One possibility here, then, is the notion of planes of consciousness: the idea that as we grow in knowledge or experience or wisdom or what have you, we are moving in direction toward a higher plane of consciousness of some sort. I don't think this sort of thing is quantifiable, and perhaps that would be one reason to use Dust as a 'before and after' picture ------------------------------------------------------ Awakening/Awareness (on an ethical or spiritual level) ------------------------------------------------------ Of course, if we take the planes of consciousness to its next logical extension, then we are talking about another awakening of sorts. Not a sexual awakening as before, but an awakening that has to do with how we perceive and understand the world and our connection to it. In this sense, it is either an ethical or spiritual awakening, or both. This would make the moment of accumulation of Dust, the moment of actual awakening--the moment of "shift", in terms of the planes of consciousness; the moment of "crossing the threshold" in terms of growing up--and in this sense, it ties together and makes logical sense of the fact that the gaining of experience/knowledge is gradual, but the accumulation of Dust is abrupt. Change of this sort is obviously gradual, but there is an identifiable turning point: an epiphany or revelation, if you will. *** And so, if you look at the list of words I have above, or any other word that you think accurately applies to Dust, I think you may find that they are all interconnected somehow. From a certain point of view, they are all ways of describing or talking about something, some concept, that lacks a sole, precise word. And that's what I think Dust is supposed to be, personally. I think individual people may have a preference for one way of looking at it or another, but I'm not convinced that one way is truly the most accurate. Myself, I show a slight preference for the idea of Dust representing a change of awareness or awakening on an ethical or spiritual level, but that's not what I think Dust *is*, because Dust is every bit as much the other things mentioned as well. I have never seen Pullman himself give much of a single-word equivalent for Dust. The closest he seems to have come is talking about the difference between innocence and experience, but even there he was technically discussing it as the major theme of the book, not as the sole symbolic equivalent of Dust. His explanation of Dust in the Readerville interview was: > Now then, Dust. Dust permeates everything in the > universe, and existed before we individuals did and > will continue after us. Dust enriches us and is > nurtured in turn by us; it brings wisdom and it is > kept alive by love and curiosity and diligent > enquiry and kindness and patience and hope. The > relationship we have with Dust is mutually > beneficial. Instead of being the dependent children > of an all-powerful king, we are partners and equals > with Dust in the great project of keeping the > universe alive. It's a republican relationship, if > you like, not a monarchical one. I don't find it > difficult to think that Dust might suggest a new > kind of relationship with a God. So while Dust is clearly symbolic, I still think Dust is . . . Dust. But I guess that's not terribly helpful as an answer, now is it? -Luke From tabouli at unite.com.au Sun Aug 11 06:18:59 2002 From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 16:18:59 +1000 Subject: Her Dusty Musings Message-ID: <001201c240fe$fbf36b60$ba2032d2@price> I've been musing about how to define Dust for Jenny for a few days. Now I've seen Luke's fine efforts, mine might be redundant, but there was one angle Luke didn't touch on which is the more physics oriented/plot centred angle. My thoughts are roughly as follows. In Pullman's universes, a new subatomic particle has been identified... let's call it a dustatron (!). Intelligent beings in various universes discover that 33,000 years ago, there was a sudden dramatic increase in the level of dustatrons found around human (and other intelligent creatures') remains. On further investigation, they also discover that dustatrons cluster much more densely around adults than they do around children. Most bizarre of all, they find that these dustatron particles respond to human thought patterns. The effects of dustatronic force can actually be observed when people use the alethiometer, or get hooked up to Mary's machine. The people decide that dustatrons have something to do with thought. Presumably 33,000 years ago human beings suddenly started thinking in a way which attracted more dustatrons. Moreover, as children suddenly attract more of them around puberty, dustatrons must also have something to do with sexual maturity. They conclude that dustatrons are particles of "consciousness" or "self-awareness" in some way. Now, Luke mentions a lot of things which don't all fit perfectly under "self-awareness". However, I think it's as good a word as any, especially when you consider the whole Adam and Eve metaphor. Remember that *before* the fruit business, they were "naked and unashamed". Not at all *self-conscious*, because they didn't have any concept of morality, any notion that being naked was "bad" in any way. God alone has a concept of right and wrong. God then points out the Tree of Knowledge and tells them they may not eat it "lest they die" (I always wonder about this part of the story, inclining towards Douglas Adams' comment that saying "Oh, eat whatever you want but don't touch the apples" is a pretty good way of tempting *anyone's* curiosity, but anyway). The serpent tells Eve this isn't true, and that if she eats the fruit it will *open her eyes* and make her as a God, *knowing good and evil*. There's quite an emphasis on awareness, there. So much so I'd hazard a guess that it may not literally be death but *awareness* of death God was implying. If they eat the fruit, they will develop a sense of morality, be able to judge things as good and bad, will know that they will one day die. Intrigued, they eat the fruit, and then their "eyes are opened", and they realise that they are naked, so they cover themselves with fig leaves. The birth of a concept of sexual morality: to be naked is a "bad" thing, something to be ashamed of, something to be hidden. God isn't happy, punishes the serpent, and, interestingly, condemns the woman to pain in childbirth (which is the direct result of our development of the large brain associated with our "consciousness" and "intelligence"), subordination to her husband (control of female fertility via monogamy?), and condemns the man to settle down and forge a pastoral lifestyle (tilling the fields and so on). Then he gives them clothes (reinforcing the judgment of nudity as "bad"), a la house elves, declares them the possessors of moral judgment, and chucks them out of Paradise (the bliss of ignorance?). There's a pretty heavy emphasis on developing a sense of moral judgment, isn't there? Deciding for yourself, rather than living in ignorance and delegating ideas about good and evil to God (the higher authority). Discovering shame, and guilt, becoming self-aware. Which is exactly what Pullman was getting at. Then let's consider what happens around puberty. Adolescents are apt to be very self-conscious indeed, and also very conscious of the social rules of their society (hence their deep embarrassment about their parents). Behaving in the "right" (or cool, or whatever) way. And well they might be, because the penalties for breaking 'em is very high indeed in such ghoulish places as secondary schools. It could be argued that they start to "think for themselves" to a much greater degree, rather than being happy to accept adult judgment. Also, from being essentially egocentric, children typically become *much* more conscious of how other people perceive them. All this gradually increases from birth, naturally, but there is a particular acceleration of this around puberty. With sexual maturity comes sexual awareness... a child who might have run around "naked and unashamed" at 6 suddenly begins to wonder about his or her body (is it attractive? is it normal?) a lot more, and may become *extremely* secretive and self-conscious about people seeing it naked. Pullman touches on that as well, when Lyra suddenly realises she's shy about undressing in front of Will. The daemon fixing shape at puberty could, I suppose, be construed as the fixing of self-identity. (Of course, Anglophone society norms are changing rapidly due to the sexualisation of the media, dieting eight year old girls in crop tops and so forth, but let's not complicate things) Essentially, what Pullman does in HDM is distill self-awareness into subatomic particles which cluster more thickly around a creature the more self-aware it/he/she is. And calls those particles "Dust", giving them a physical existence which can be detected using special instruments (the alethiometer, the amber spyglass). Er, did that make any sense? Tabouli. P.S. I did wonder whether Metatron was named with physics terminology in mind... postitron, electron... could he be suggesting a meta-particle or something? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From john at queerasjohn.com Sun Aug 11 13:14:37 2002 From: john at queerasjohn.com (Queer as John) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 09:14:37 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] He's Deemed Metatron In-Reply-To: <001201c240fe$fbf36b60$ba2032d2@price> Message-ID: Tabouli said: > P.S. I did wonder whether Metatron was named with physics terminology in > mind... postitron, electron... could he be suggesting a meta-particle or > something? I was always under the impression that Metatron was the actual name of one of the angels and not, say, a television. ("Yes, this 27-inch Metatron can be yours for the low, low price of...") Wasn't Alan Rickman's character in Dogma called "Lemetatron"? Anyway, quick Google comes up with a reference: Kaplan, C., 'The Angel of Peace, Uriel - Metatron', Anglican Theological Review, 13 (1931), pp. 306-313. Also, from _A Popular Dictionary of Judaism_, via Pantheon.org -- http://www.pantheon.org/articles/m/metatron.html "An angel, mentioned in Jewish apocalyptic literature. In the Talmud he is said to have a name like that of his master and he is associated both with Enoch and the archangel Michael. His name can be spelled with either six or seven Hebrew letters, and that is the reason kabbalists believe him to be both the supreme sefirah and Enoch." So...the name isn't Pullman's. But it's a good one! --John _________________________________________________ Queer as John || john at queerasjohn.com LJ @ www.queerasjohn.com YM @ queerasjohn "There's nowt as queer as folk." --English proverb _________________________________________________ From s_ings at yahoo.com Sun Aug 11 14:43:10 2002 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 10:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Happy Birthday, Ebony! Message-ID: <20020811144310.68041.qmail@web14606.mail.yahoo.com> *rushes into the room and starts decorating, taking time out to wheel in very large cake* You, don't start thinking you have Sunday off to go out and do whatever Sunday things you usually do. There's a party today and I expect everyone to be here! Today's birthday honouree is Ebony. Birthday owls can be sent to this list or directly to her at: selah_1977 at yahoo.com I hope your day is filled with magic and many blessings. Happy Birthday, Ebony! Sheryll ===== "We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times." blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26 ______________________________________________________________________ Post your ad for free now! http://personals.yahoo.ca From temporary_blue at yahoo.ca Sun Aug 11 14:53:17 2002 From: temporary_blue at yahoo.ca (temporary_blue at yahoo.ca) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 10:53:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: HP in Gym Class In-Reply-To: <1029033992.394.8741.m12@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: <20020811145317.51749.qmail@web14305.mail.yahoo.com> "Now, athletics for everyone," in _The Montreal Gazette_, (Saturday, August 10, 2002): p. G6. This year, students at the elementary school were divided into four houses, just as they were at Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, the alma matter of Harry Potter, J.K. Rowling's magic hero. Hillcrest students participated in physical activities that could win points in the form of gold galleons. The high point came in June, when students took part in a game of Quidditch--the game played in the Potter books--modified to include a combination of football, basketball and tennis. As a result, Hillcrest Academy students didn't just exercise their bodies. Encouraged to read Harry Potter, to consult Taylor's Harry Potter Web site in order to answer weekly quiz questions and to tally their points, their minds got a workout, too. --- Ann ______________________________________________________________________ Post your ad for free now! http://personals.yahoo.ca From gypsycaine at neo.rr.com Sun Aug 11 15:08:52 2002 From: gypsycaine at neo.rr.com (Dee R) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 11:08:52 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Birthday, Ebony! References: <20020811144310.68041.qmail@web14606.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <029201c24149$021f02c0$1f38d118@neo.rr.com> Wow! It's Ebony's birthday already? Grins. Hurray! Hurray! Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Sheryll Townsend To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 10:43 AM Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Birthday, Ebony! *rushes into the room and starts decorating, taking time out to wheel in very large cake* You, don't start thinking you have Sunday off to go out and do whatever Sunday things you usually do. There's a party today and I expect everyone to be here! Today's birthday honouree is Ebony. Birthday owls can be sent to this list or directly to her at: selah_1977 at yahoo.com I hope your day is filled with magic and many blessings. Happy Birthday, Ebony! Sheryll ===== "We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times." blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26 ______________________________________________________________________ Post your ad for free now! http://personals.yahoo.ca Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________ Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/ Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying! Is your message... An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements. Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie. Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups. None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter. Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com ____________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sun Aug 11 15:16:13 2002 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 11:16:13 EDT Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Birthday, Ebony! Message-ID: <> Happy Happy Birthday, Ebony! Jeralyn From mike at aberforthsgoat.net Sun Aug 11 15:52:27 2002 From: mike at aberforthsgoat.net (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 17:52:27 +0200 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Her Dusty Musings References: <001201c240fe$fbf36b60$ba2032d2@price> Message-ID: <002101c2414f$189a4360$0200a8c0@shasta> Tabouli cogitated, > Essentially, what Pullman does in HDM is distill > self-awareness into subatomic particles Stop right there! Amy - you out there?? That actually sounds and awful lot like Whitehead's metaphysics - serious philosophy, btw. Otherwise known as process philosophy. Though I'm pretty desperately ignorant of this all, I think Amy's something of an expert. Would Amy - or someone else with a better grounding in philosophy than I - care to do a little comparison and contrast here? Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) _______________________ "Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been bravery...." From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 11 17:53:46 2002 From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda the Witch) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 10:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Birthday, Ebony! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020811175346.46082.qmail@web13706.mail.yahoo.com> voicelady wrote: <> Happy Happy Birthday, Ebony! Jeralyn Well, well, well, looky here, another party! What a party too! HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO EBONY! Let the feasting begin and the butterbeer flow! Have a magical day today! May you get all your birthday wishes filled and tons of HP stuff! Schnoogles, Wanda the Witch of Revere,Massachusetts and Her Very Merry Band of Muggles 100 %! "When you come to the edge of all the light you know, and are about to step off into the darkness of the unknown, faith is knowing one of two things will happen; There will be something solid to stand on, or you will be taught how to fly."......Unknown. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs, a Yahoo! service - Search Thousands of New Jobs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From judyshapiro at earthlink.net Sun Aug 11 18:37:56 2002 From: judyshapiro at earthlink.net (judyserenity) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 18:37:56 -0000 Subject: Happy Birthday, Ebony! In-Reply-To: <20020811144310.68041.qmail@web14606.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sheryll said: > Today's birthday honouree is Ebony. Birthday owls can > be sent to this list or directly to her at: > selah_1977 at y... Ah -- I happened to check in here just in time to catch Ebony's birthday! Ebony lives about 50 miles from me, so I think it's safe to say she's having a lovely sunny day for her birthday. ('Cause that's what the weather's like now where I am.) Have a great birthday, Ebony! Judy From katje0711 at hotmail.com Sun Aug 11 19:08:02 2002 From: katje0711 at hotmail.com (katje0711) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 19:08:02 -0000 Subject: Movie Parties Message-ID: Hi~ I thought this would be a good place to post this. Is anyone in the New Hampshire area and interested in getting together to watch the next movie, talk HP or anything? Please respond to this post or you can email me at Katje0711 at hotmail.com. Live the Magic! ~Kat From pinguthegreek at ukf.net Sun Aug 11 21:13:14 2002 From: pinguthegreek at ukf.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 22:13:14 +0100 Subject: Help - UKlisties Message-ID: <000901c2417b$e8a1dce0$279f01d4@john> Is there any one who by chance recorded tonight's West Wing ? My video didn't and I am sooo po'd with it ! Hope someone can help.... Michelle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From catlady at wicca.net Sun Aug 11 22:39:10 2002 From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 22:39:10 -0000 Subject: Happy Birthdays! / Wanda's Sig ("Faith") Message-ID: Egad, I missed Cornflower and Laura's birthdays and almost missed Ebony's! My excuse includes being at a birthday party yesterday to celebrate Tim's birthday the day before... Wanda the Witch of Revere's sig says: << "When you come to the edge of all the light you know, and are about to step off into the darkness of the unknown, faith is knowing one of two things will happen; There will be something solid to stand on, or you will be taught how to fly."......Unknown. >> Nitpics: "faith is knowing that one of THREE things will happen: ... " OR your hard (and possibly fatal) crash-landing will accomplish something which is the best for everyone, according to some plan which only God/dess is wise enough to know. From bray.262 at osu.edu Mon Aug 12 10:32:18 2002 From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:32:18 +0000 (EST5EDT) Subject: Atkins, Signs Message-ID: <109D2C01FD8@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu> Has anyone out there done the Atkins Diet or knows someone who has? I'm starting it today. I heard the cravings for bread and pasta and the such will disappear within the first week or so. Is this true? I saw Signs Friday night with a friend of mine. Great movie but it really screwed me up! I slept with the lights on in my living room and dining room! I haven't done that in YEARS! But...it was a wonderful movie. Very fun. But I guess I prefer my aliens pot-bellied and botanists! :-) Rachel Bray The Ohio State University Fees & Deposits Two buffalo were standing on the range when a passing tourist said, "Those are the mangiest, scroungiest, most moth-eaten, miserable beasts I have ever seen." One of the buffalo turned to the other and said, "You know, I think I just heard a discouraging word." From virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com Mon Aug 12 15:08:18 2002 From: virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com (virtualworldofhp) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 15:08:18 -0000 Subject: Atkins, Signs In-Reply-To: <109D2C01FD8@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Rachel Bray wrote: > Has anyone out there done the Atkins Diet or knows someone > who has? I'm starting it today. I heard the cravings for > bread and pasta and the such will disappear within the > first week or so. Is this true? You'll still probably get cravings when AROUND the breads, simply from sight and smell. Drink lots of water. My favorite snack was an ounce cube of cheddar cheese. I love cheese and it's only something like 1 carb. Pork rinds are good chip substitutes. Ummm, I don't really recall how my cravings were regarding first week versus rest, but I don't remember them being too bad at all. Then again, I've always been more of a meat person rather than breads. Though you do miss the occasional bagel or tortilla. And drink lots of water. Again. ;-) -Megan From joyw at gwu.edu Mon Aug 12 15:52:07 2002 From: joyw at gwu.edu (- Joy -) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 11:52:07 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Atkins, Signs References: <109D2C01FD8@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: <006101c24218$3676d140$5094d50a@nrockv01.md.comcast.net> Rachel wrote: <> I'd strongly recommend Weight Watchers Online over Atkins. You can eat whatever you want, go out to eat, exercise isn't required, and there are no forbidden foods. Every food has a point value, and you just have to balance your food choices for the day so that you don't go over your point limit. I love the online plan... you don't have to go to meetings or get weighed in public, there's great support, and you can do it all from your computer. Atkins isn't good for your heart or your cholesterol, and it's not a plan that works longterm. I know people that have done it, lost huge amounts of weight, and gained it right back once they started eating carbs again. I've lost an average of a pound a week on WW... it's slow and steady, but it's something I can see myself doing for the rest of my life. Just for the record, I don't work for or own stock in Weight Watchers... I'm just thrilled with the plan. If you want more info, just let me know... Good luck with whatever "diet" you choose! ~Joy~ From zulyblue at yahoo.com Mon Aug 12 16:16:38 2002 From: zulyblue at yahoo.com (zulyblue) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 09:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Atkins, Signs In-Reply-To: <006101c24218$3676d140$5094d50a@nrockv01.md.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20020812161638.15094.qmail@web20422.mail.yahoo.com> I second everything Joy has written about Atkins and the wonders of Weight Watchers! IMHO, if you are really serious about losing weight (and if you have more than just a few pounds to lose) a plan like Weight Watchers is the way to go because it is more than just a diet. If you are serious about losing weight and keeping it off you need to change the way you eat and Weight Watchers encourages eating healthy, while Atkins doesn't. I've been doing WW since the first of the year and I have lost 80 lbs so far and I feel great. The first few weeks were hard, but after that I really have to say it has been EASY! WW has worked for me and Joy and several friends that I have convinced to join. Its not a miracle, but it works! Best of luck with whatever 'diet' you choose and let us know how it goes. Zulyblue PS Anyone else out there on WW? --- - Joy - wrote: > Rachel wrote: > < someone who has? I'm > starting it today.>> > > I'd strongly recommend Weight Watchers Online over > Atkins. You can eat > whatever you want, go out to eat, exercise isn't > required, and there are no > forbidden foods. Every food has a point value, and > you just have to balance > your food choices for the day so that you don't go > over your point limit. I > love the online plan... you don't have to go to > meetings or get weighed in > public, there's great support, and you can do it all > from your computer. > > Atkins isn't good for your heart or your > cholesterol, and it's not a plan > that works longterm. I know people that have done > it, lost huge amounts of > weight, and gained it right back once they started > eating carbs again. I've > lost an average of a pound a week on WW... it's slow > and steady, but it's > something I can see myself doing for the rest of my > life. > > Just for the record, I don't work for or own stock > in Weight Watchers... I'm > just thrilled with the plan. If you want more info, > just let me know... > > Good luck with whatever "diet" you choose! > > ~Joy~ > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk Mon Aug 12 16:21:46 2002 From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 16:21:46 -0000 Subject: Happy Birthday, Ebony! In-Reply-To: <20020811144310.68041.qmail@web14606.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Sheryll Townsend wrote: > *rushes into the room and starts decorating, taking > time out to wheel in very large cake* > > Today's birthday honouree is Ebony. Birthday owls can > be sent to this list or directly to her at: > selah_1977 at y... > > I hope your day is filled with magic and many > blessings. > > Happy Birthday, Ebony! Sorry my birthday wishes are a bit late, Ebony, but I hope you had a lovely day with lots of HP goodies. Mary Ann :) From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk Mon Aug 12 16:34:15 2002 From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 16:34:15 -0000 Subject: Atkins, Signs In-Reply-To: <006101c24218$3676d140$5094d50a@nrockv01.md.comcast.net> Message-ID: > Rachel wrote: > < starting it today.>> Joy replied: > Atkins isn't good for your heart or your cholesterol, and it's not a plan > that works longterm. I know people that have done it, lost huge amounts of > weight, and gained it right back once they started eating carbs again. I agree with Joy; the Atkins diet is *not* healthy. The reason you lose weight at first is because you're burning some fat *and* muscle because you're not taking in any carbs, which is your body's main fuel. Use it short term if you wish, but any diet which does not eliminate *any* food group is better. If you're like me and have no willpower ;) you'll have difficulty staying away from the carbs or any other banned food anyway anyway. Also, I heard or read somewhere that Dr. Atkins himself has heart problems. Not a good sign, eh? Just my 2 knuts :) Mary Ann (who plans on starting a weight loss program when the kids are back in school and stress levels drop!) From devika at sas.upenn.edu Mon Aug 12 16:42:45 2002 From: devika at sas.upenn.edu (devika261) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 16:42:45 -0000 Subject: Atkins, low carb diets in general (a bit long) In-Reply-To: <109D2C01FD8@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Rachel Bray wrote: > Has anyone out there done the Atkins Diet or knows someone > who has? I'm starting it today. I heard the cravings for > bread and pasta and the such will disappear within the > first week or so. Is this true? > I did the Atkins Diet last summer for 10 days, and I lost 7 pounds, which didn't come back when I went back to a normal diet. I had only intended to do it for two weeks (the induction period), but I could only stick it out for ten days for two reasons. First, I just couldn't deal with not eating carbs, and second, I really didn't lose any more weight after the first week. I believe that the Atkins Diet does tell you that during the two week induction period, when you eat a very small amount of carbs, you should lose about 5-10 pounds. However, after that period, when you gradually increase your carbohydrate intake, you'll still lose some weight, but at a much slower pace. I actually did a project on low carb diets for my biochemistry class last year, and I found out some facts that you might be interested in. According to a lot of papers that I read, basically what happens during the induction period is that your body realizes that it's not getting nearly enough carbs from your diet, so it mobilizes the carbohydrate stores that it already has in the form of glycogen. For every gram of glycogen mobilized, the body also loses a certain amount of water (I forget exactly how much, but it's pretty significant). Most of the weight you lose during the induction period is due to water loss, and that's why you lose so much. That's also why many people gain the weight right back when they go off the diet. I didn't, but that might be the exception rather than the rule. After the induction period, you can eat more carbs, so your body goes pretty much back to normal. You'll lose weight more slowly now, often not more than a pound a week. Now, though, your weight loss is due to nothing more than a lower calorie intake. If you're cutting any type of food out of your diet, your calorie intake will most likely be less, and so that's why you keep gradually losing small amounts of weight. So what's the point of all this? Basically that the Atkins Diet, except for the initial induction phase, ends up giving you the same results as any other traditional diet. You eat fewer calories, you lose weight. If the papers I've read are correct, then it's as simple as that. But then the high-fat nature of the Atkins Diet also has a lot of long-term consequences that aren't all that great. For example, high cholesterol, heart disease, etc. There's actually another paper I read that suggested that high-protein diets increase the risk of osteoporosis in the (very) long run. I don't mean to scare you by all of this. What I believe, both from personal experience and from the research I did, is that the Atkins Diet is a good thing to do for a short period of time to jump start your weight loss. After that, for me at least, it just came down to eating a healthy, balanced, low calorie diet and making sure I got regular exercise. And in the long run, that's healthier for you anyway. So anyway, if this was way more information than you wanted, I'm sorry. Since you're just starting the diet, I think that you should stick with it for a while, and you'll probably see some quick results. I just personally wouldn't recommend it for the long term. And as far as diets in general are concerned, I wish you the best of luck and I hope that you can find one that is most effective for you. In the end, that's what counts. --Devika :) From Ali at zymurgy.org Mon Aug 12 18:48:23 2002 From: Ali at zymurgy.org (alhewison) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 18:48:23 -0000 Subject: Gun culture was "slightly OT apparation on Main list Message-ID: BBOY wrote:- In England, more than many placed, there really is honor among thieves, and other criminal sorts. Up until recently, English police didn't even carry guns. It was a gentleman agreement between cops and crooks. 'You don't shoot us and we won't shoot you.' I believe the world has changed a bit now, but I'm still pretty sure that the average 'walk the street' cop doesn't carry a gun (can't prove it though). This paragraph bubbled up several ideas in my head, but was too off- topic to carry on the main list. Whilst I agree that there is an "honour amongst thieves" of sorts, this does not explain why British Police don't carry guns. I think that Bboy is perhaps confusing a very different background culture with a "gentleman's agreement" which I don't believe has ever existed. In Britain we have very tight laws regarding the holding of firearms. These have been tightened in recent years following a massacre of school children a few years ago. Basically, the average person would have no access to, and no contact with guns. I have never seen a handgun. Guns are freely available in the "Underworld", and in some parts of the country are increasingly used, particularly in drugs related incidents. I believe that this attitude towards guns differs greatly from the States where (our British) media shows us that many feel that gun owning is a right, part of the right of self protection. As such, guns in the States are comparatively freely available, and are correspondingly used more. In a society where guns are more freely available, I can accept the need for law enforcers to carry weapons. In our society where this is not the case, gun-handling is not necessary. Before, you think that my understanding of the gun situation in the States is very simplistic ? it is. I know that the arguments are very complex and that different states have different laws governing their use. I am only comparing (at a superficial level) why the police can act so differently in Britain. Having said that, "Armed Response Units" are increasingly used, and it is not inconceivable that all our police will be armed in the future ? although I still think that we are some way from that. There is an argument that if are police go into situations armed, that they will almost "up the stakes", and lead to more fatal confrontations. Violent crime is escalating sharply in Britain. I don't how badly/favourably it compares to the States ? or even other parts of the world, but certainly as Bboy says, our "world has changed a bit now" Violence though doesn't necessarily have to be as a result of guns. My brother and sister have both been mugged ? baseball bats make good weapons when used to cosh somebody over the head. 2 friends of mine were stabbed when they got on the top deck of a bus outside our school, and only 6 months ago my husbands car was written off in a "road rage" attack. When the policeman arrived, the first thing he told my husband was that "this "gentleman" (ie the bloke who ruined our car) is known to me, and it's not in a social capacity" ? he already had form for pub brawling and intimidation. Very nice man! Although he was charged, he has still not been prosecuted. My husband does not want to chase, as he doesn't want to go to court. This is not feel like justice to me, and as for honour Ali Who is glad that guns are not common place in Britain, but accepts that other cultures have different needs. From lupinesque at yahoo.com Mon Aug 12 22:35:59 2002 From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (lupinesque) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 22:35:59 -0000 Subject: His Difficult Metaphysics In-Reply-To: <002101c2414f$189a4360$0200a8c0@shasta> Message-ID: > Tabouli cogitated, > > > Essentially, what Pullman does in HDM is distill > > self-awareness into subatomic particles Aberforth's Goat stepped into the street, blowing his whistle (can goats do that?), and demanded: > Stop right there! > > Amy - you out there?? That actually sounds and awful lot like Whitehead's > metaphysics - serious philosophy, btw. Otherwise known as process > philosophy. Though I'm pretty desperately ignorant of this all, I think > Amy's something of an expert. Process, I know pretty well, thanks to Whitehead's intellectual descendants who have put it into comparatively clear philosophy of religion. Whitehead himself . . . well, if there's anyone out there who understands a blessed word the man wrote, I take my hat off to 'em. I supposedly read Process and Reality in a course entirely devoted to Whitehead but am no more clueful than the day I began. There may be a parallel between Whiteheadian and Pullmanian metaphysics, though the "occasions of experience" that form the basic particles of existence in Whitehead aren't only physical . . . uh, I *think*. Hm, maybe Pullman's aren't either. I'm consulting my philosophy notes, but they appear to turn into doodles right about here. What does come across very strongly to me is that whether or not PP ascribes knowingly to process theology, the trilogy fits in with those parts of it I do understand (i.e. *not* the metaphysics) very well. E.g. process puts a strong emphasis on the idea that creation is unfinished--never finished, in fact--and that we co-create the universe along with God; that jells with the human responsibility to help create the Republic of Heaven, and with the way Dust is increased, or decreased, by human choices. There's also a lot of support in p.t. for a non-anthropomorphic kind of God, and once PP disposes of the Authority's claim to the throne, saying that he is a mere pretender to the title of God of the Universe, he leaves the question of whether there is a real God and what he/she/it might look like tantalizingly unanswered. Amy Z From s_ings at yahoo.com Tue Aug 13 12:53:54 2002 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 08:53:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Happy Birthday, Mary Ann Message-ID: <20020813125354.67082.qmail@web14612.mail.yahoo.com> *hangs various streamers and loads side table with goodies and cake* Someone light the candles and put out the plates and napkins, please, the guests will be here any minute. Today's birthday honouree is Mary Ann. Birthday owls can be sent to this list or directly to: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk I hope your day is magical and filled with fun. Happy Birthday, Mary Ann! Sheryll ===== "We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times." blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26 ______________________________________________________________________ Post your ad for free now! http://personals.yahoo.ca From dawbin99 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 13 13:56:01 2002 From: dawbin99 at yahoo.com (dawbin99) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 13:56:01 -0000 Subject: harry potter and teachers Message-ID: Hi everyone. I have only posted one message before this and that was just a 'hi' message. I have a question for any teachers out there. I am going back to school to receive my teachers certificate. I am considering 4th or 5th grade. I would love to use Harry Potter in my lessons. I was wondering if any teachers use Harry Potter in their classes and if they do: - what grade? -are there any objections from fellow staff/teachers/parents/students? -how do you handle the objections? Any advise and information is greatly appreciated! Thanks Dawn From rvotaw at i-55.com Tue Aug 13 14:18:15 2002 From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 09:18:15 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] harry potter and teachers References: Message-ID: <00db01c242d4$44502c00$8fa0cdd1@istu757> > Hi everyone. > I have only posted one message before this and that was just a 'hi' > message. > I have a question for any teachers out there. > I am going back to school to receive my teachers certificate. I am > considering 4th or 5th grade. I would love to use Harry Potter in my > lessons. I was wondering if any teachers use Harry Potter in their > classes and if they do: > - what grade? > -are there any objections from fellow staff/teachers/parents/students? > -how do you handle the objections? Well, I teach first grade, so I can't really use Harry Potter in my class. However, at least one of the fourth grade teachers at my school has read HP to her class and they loved it. We do have one teacher at the school who objects to Harry Potter though. My response to objectors would be to ask them to read it before they criticize it. In a nice way, of course. One thing I really like about HP is that magic doesn't solve everything. You can have all the magical power in the world, and it won't do what you *really* want. All Harry really wants is to have his parents back. And all the magic in the world can't do that. As long as the children can distinguish between reality and fantasy, it shouldn't be a problem. Personally, unless it's high level 3rd graders I'd say 4th grade would be the lowest grade level to "handle" Harry Potter. Especially if you go into books 3 and 4. It does get rather dark in GoF. Oh, Scholastic also has teaching guides for all four HP books. They come with posters and are pretty good. I can't use them, but I do want to buy them for my HP collection. As a first grade teacher my kids are a bit clueless, though the movie helped, I'm sure some of them will have seen that. We are using magic wands in reading and such things as that. Of course, they don't look like HP magic wands, more like the fairy godmother. :) Richelle From mandm at discover-net.net Tue Aug 13 15:35:26 2002 From: mandm at discover-net.net (marybear82) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 15:35:26 -0000 Subject: harry potter and teachers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "dawbin99" wrote: I was wondering if any teachers use Harry Potter in their > classes and if they do: > - what grade? > -are there any objections from fellow staff/teachers/parents/students? > -how do you handle the objections? > > Any advise and information is greatly appreciated! > Thanks > Dawn Hi Dawn- I haven't posted to OT before, and it's been a long time since I've had the opportunity to post on the book discussion list as well. I recently finished teaching a week-long course called "Pottermania" for our local college campus's "Kids Kollege" program. The program was designed for gifted students in grades 4-6. However, among the 17 kids in the class, there were a wide variety of experiences and abilities, since some were being shuttled in from other programs. Some had read all four books - others had only read SS, or none at all, but were fans of the movie. All were fans of HP, and parents obviously did not object. What surprised me more than anything else was their incredibly high comprehension. I credit JKR for creating a world so vivid, that they remembered even minute details. Even the slower readers were absolutely accurate in describing plot points, (and they did not get the book mixed up with the movie) character profiles, and details of the setting. In fact, if I was less than completely obsessed with all things Potter, I couldn't have kept up! Thanks to the magic of the internet, and other teachers' willingness to share ideas there, we had a variety of cross-curricular activities that were "Potter-themed," but spent at least half of the time in literary discussion. Toward the end of the week, we began to discuss themes. Here, I had to allow a few to stare blankly into space while the more advanced students tore into the discussion - after all, it was what they had come there to do! I was amazed by the complexity of the discussion and the depth of their insight. All I had to do was ask pointed questions, and they answered better than a lot of high school students I've worked with. We wound up by getting into really "deep" territory involving symbolism, etc. that had me inviting those students to continue with me at lunch break. Surprisingly, even the students I thought were zoning out wanted to keep going. They may not have been talking, but they sure were listening. I encourage teachers to use HP in the classroom if they can. It is so richly textured, and appeals to such a wide variety of kids, that it practically teaches itself. Many kids(including Daniel Radcliffe)cite JKR's books as the jumping-off point to a lifetime of reading. Sadly, many districts have instituted a policy against teaching controversial works of literature in order to avoid conflict with parents. If your district has no such policy, I would forge ahead. As a small-town teacher and librarian, I know the irate Potter-hater very well. (My sister-in-law is one.) I usually encourage those people to read the books, but many can't get past the setting enough to get to the story, and never will. A very wise teacher of mine once said, "It's easier to apologize for offending someone, than to ask permission." Best of luck to you, Dawn, as you continue your education - good teachers are a must, and HP is full of teachable moments. Peace, Mary (who sheepishly looks at the length of this post and mutters a heartfelt "sorry") From ken.kuller at veritas.com Tue Aug 13 15:47:13 2002 From: ken.kuller at veritas.com (Ken Kuller) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 10:47:13 -0500 Subject: Harry Potter and Parents (was [HPFGU-OTChatter] harry potter and teachers) Message-ID: I've heard some anti-Harry Potter ranting from one co-worker, and found it all easy to dismiss. OK, so Harry Potter has witches and wizards. So does the Wizard of Oz. No, Harry Potter neither teaches nor endorses Wicca ... it's simply a magic world, in which everything is full of wonder. My daughter is now entering second grade, and is at an advanced reading level. We've been reading Harry Potter together for the last 8 months. We stop regularly to discuss several things: * new vocabulary ("What's a corridor, Dad?") * comprehension ("What just happened? How has the situation changed? How did she react?" etc.) * ethics ("Would you tell the truth? What's the right thing to do? Which thing matters the most? What would you do?" etc.) In our case, it's been quality time together. We've also brewed potions (such as mixing vinegar and baking soda) then discussed the science behind our fun. We had fun discussing Bertie Bott's Every Flavor Bean flavors, pretended to be in front of different types of mirrors, and talking about pictures that move. One of my favorite lessons (from book 2) came after Harry entered the book ("Blue skidoo, we can too!" ... "Dad!") where we heard one side of a story, and later spoke to Aragog and got the other side. This opened up a wonderful discussion about numerous real-life situations. -----Original Message----- From: Richelle Votaw [mailto:rvotaw at i-55.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 9:18 AM To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] harry potter and teachers > Hi everyone. > I have only posted one message before this and that was just a 'hi' > message. > I have a question for any teachers out there. > I am going back to school to receive my teachers certificate. I am > considering 4th or 5th grade. I would love to use Harry Potter in my > lessons. I was wondering if any teachers use Harry Potter in their > classes and if they do: > - what grade? > -are there any objections from fellow staff/teachers/parents/students? > -how do you handle the objections? Well, I teach first grade, so I can't really use Harry Potter in my class. However, at least one of the fourth grade teachers at my school has read HP to her class and they loved it. We do have one teacher at the school who objects to Harry Potter though. My response to objectors would be to ask them to read it before they criticize it. In a nice way, of course. One thing I really like about HP is that magic doesn't solve everything. You can have all the magical power in the world, and it won't do what you *really* want. All Harry really wants is to have his parents back. And all the magic in the world can't do that. As long as the children can distinguish between reality and fantasy, it shouldn't be a problem. Personally, unless it's high level 3rd graders I'd say 4th grade would be the lowest grade level to "handle" Harry Potter. Especially if you go into books 3 and 4. It does get rather dark in GoF. Oh, Scholastic also has teaching guides for all four HP books. They come with posters and are pretty good. I can't use them, but I do want to buy them for my HP collection. As a first grade teacher my kids are a bit clueless, though the movie helped, I'm sure some of them will have seen that. We are using magic wands in reading and such things as that. Of course, they don't look like HP magic wands, more like the fairy godmother. :) Richelle Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________ Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/ Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying! Is your message... An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements. Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie. Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups. None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter. Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com ____________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. From swav at gwu.edu Tue Aug 13 15:59:50 2002 From: swav at gwu.edu (swav) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:59:50 -0400 Subject: Atkins Diet Message-ID: <3D5B2B42@webmailbackup> I have been on the atkins diet for over 6 months (4 years ago) and am strongly considering doing it again, but permanently. The atkins diet as designed is a permanent life style change, but once you reach your target weight, you have low ccarbs, but still some carbs. I know over 10 people who have changed over to an atkins way of eating permanently (or at least for the last 5 years or more) they have lost anywhere from 20-90 pounds and kept it off. I gained back the 40 pounds I lost because I started eating whatever I wanted again. For people like me, atkins is highly preferrable to weight watchers, because I can eliminate foods, I absolutely cannot limit quantities. My appetite has no shutoff switch. When my carbs are low enough, however, I'm not as hungry due to lower blood glucose level swings. Those who have done atkins and followed it have lower cholesterol than before and lose weight even though they are eating more fat and more calories. i have done a lot of research on this diet, because I take my health seriously. the reason, is because when carbs are low enough, the body does not metabolize the fat, and instead it passes through the body ina process called ketosis. It is true that the huge weight loss in the first week is mostly water. Atkins properly followed results in a loss of 1-2 pounds per week. The point is for people who like to eat A LOT and are unwilling or unable to give that up, atkins is an attractive option. It is important to note that the atkins diet is a potent diuretic (makes you pee a lot.) If you don't drink a lot of water you will get dehydrated. Also its important to watch caffeine consumption. (ie: brewing coffee with water joe while on atkins, then eating a quarter pound of chocolate covered espresso beans while cramming for finals = very bad idea) trust me on this one. I also experienced substantial muscle gain while on atkins, as I had upped my protein consumption. I'm also beleive it or not a semi-vegetarian. Atkins for me is eggs, veggies, seafood, cheese, and nuts. Macadmaias are great on the diet. :) and of course sugar free jello. Any other questions feel free to email me off list. Josh From mrflynn6 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 13 17:25:53 2002 From: mrflynn6 at yahoo.com (mrflynn6) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:25:53 -0000 Subject: harry potter and teachers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "dawbin99" wrote: > I was wondering if any teachers use Harry Potter in their > > classes and if they do: > > - what grade? > > -are there any objections from fellow > staff/teachers/parents/students? > > -how do you handle the objections? > > > > Any advise and information is greatly appreciated! > > Thanks > > Dawn > > ----------------------- I am also a teacher (high school level), but not currently teaching as I am at home with our children. I have a soon to be 5th grader and twins that are going into second grade. My oldest was in 2nd grade when the Harry Potter craze hit our town. I got him SS for Christmas and we began to read it together. He couldn't wait to finish the book and reading outloud took too long. He devoured the book. I had to run out and buy the other two (at that time). He has re-read the books several times. The first grade teachers in our school read the books aloud in class. The kids LOVE the book. My twins have both read SS and CoS. We have listened to PoA and GoF on CD's. The books are so wonderfully written and make the children think. Most kids we know would be able to handle the first 2 books, for sure, by 3rd grade and all of them by 4th grade-but that would depend on the school at which you teach and the academic level of the kids. A friend of ours is an English professor at a major University and he started teaching a class on Harry Potter. He has had to add several sections of the class because of the popularity. Using Harry Potter is a wonderful idea for 3/4th grades. I would also say to anyone that objects that you will not listen to objections until they have read the books. Once they have done that, you will then listen to them and consider their objections. Gretchen From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 13 17:57:29 2002 From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda the Witch) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 10:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Birthday, Mary Ann In-Reply-To: <20020813125354.67082.qmail@web14612.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020813175729.62753.qmail@web13701.mail.yahoo.com> Hey,Mary Ann, Happy Birthday! You bring to mind a great song from the 60's! "Hey, Mary Ann, what's your game? Can anybody play?" I forget who sang it, but they are a British Group! Well, hope your day is magical and you get all kinds of HP goodies! A big toast to you on this day! Schnoogles, Wanda the Witch of Revere,Massachusetts and Her Very Merry Band of Muggles 100%! "When you come to the edge of all the light you know, and are about to step off into the darkness of the unknown, faith is knowing one of two things will happen; There will be something solid to stand on, or you will be taught how to fly."......Unknown. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs, a Yahoo! service - Search Thousands of New Jobs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From nee1 at worldnet.att.net Tue Aug 13 17:51:41 2002 From: nee1 at worldnet.att.net (Renee Gunn) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 12:51:41 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] RE: Atkins Diet References: <3D5B2B42@webmailbackup> Message-ID: <003801c242f2$15812820$ac7afea9@oemcomputer> The atkins diet is not healthy, nor is Sugar Busters or any other diet that limits foods that you can eat such as carbs. Carbs are highly important to your energy levels and the fuel your body produces. You should limit your carbs, but you should also eliminate the amount of high protein foods you eat as well as sugars and fats. Everything in moderation. Your best bet is to talk to your physician about the diet and whether or not it is a healthy diet for you to be on, just as you should with any diet you consider. There are several good reputable websites that will tell you the pluses and minuses of certain diets. But you should research them and talk to a medical advisor about the diets out there. Everyone is different and will see various results with different diets. One diet is not the perfect solution for everyone, so it also comes down to what is easier and healthier for you. And don't forget exercise. If you are curious, I am currently on WW and have an exercise routine I do 6 days a week. I started last week and between my first 2 weigh ins, lost 3 pounds. Nee From lupinesque at yahoo.com Wed Aug 14 08:13:31 2002 From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (lupinesque) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 08:13:31 -0000 Subject: Happy Birthday, Mary Ann In-Reply-To: <20020813125354.67082.qmail@web14612.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The Birthday Elf wrote: > *hangs various streamers and loads side table with > goodies and cake* > > Someone light the candles and put out the plates and > napkins, please, the guests will be here any minute. > > Today's birthday honouree is Mary Ann. A day late and a dollar short, but happy birthday, Mary Ann! Amy From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 14 09:37:49 2002 From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catorman) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 09:37:49 -0000 Subject: Happy Birthday, Mary Ann In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "lupinesque" wrote: > The Birthday Elf wrote: > > > *hangs various streamers and loads side table with > > goodies and cake* > > > > Someone light the candles and put out the plates and > > napkins, please, the guests will be here any minute. > > > > Today's birthday honouree is Mary Ann. > > A day late and a dollar short, but happy birthday, Mary Ann! > > Amy Me too! Sorry I missed this yesterday - I hope you had a wonderfully happy birthday and that you are going to write back and say that it was really restful, because your husband took care of the kids. Catherine From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk Wed Aug 14 13:40:24 2002 From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 13:40:24 -0000 Subject: Happy Birthday, Mary Ann In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Catherine wrote: >Me too! Sorry I missed this yesterday - I hope you had a >wonderfully >happy birthday and that you are going to write back and say that it >was really restful, because your husband took care of the kids. Well, just the one *sigh*. If anyone takes all 3 kids out at once, it's me. The husband won't do it. The coward. Nope, it was just a normal day of Domestic Goddessing (within reason, of course!), but tonight a friend is coming over with a bottle of wine when the kids are in bed and hubby's at work, and tomorrow night is a girls' Chinese night. That more than makes up for it ;) Thanks to everyone who sent birthday wishes. Hope you enjoyed Sheryll's cake and butterbeer ;) Mary Ann (who's hubby is seriously in the dog house) From greywolf1 at jazzfree.com Wed Aug 14 20:19:29 2002 From: greywolf1 at jazzfree.com (grey_wolf_c) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 20:19:29 -0000 Subject: Liguistics/quotes (OT carried from main list) Message-ID: > Gretchen: > > About 90% of English words (and most European languages for that > > matter) have roots in the latin language. That is why the Latin > > derivitive is so important or could be so important. > > > > > Eloise: > Are you sure about that? I understood that about 50% of the words in > common usage derive from Old English, which is a Germanic tongue. Of > course, if you include scientific, technical and medical terms, the > results are going to be skewed significantly towards Greek and Latin. > French, Italian and Spanish have much higher Latin quotients than > English, I would venture. I make no pretence to know of linguistics, anymore than what my fly-paper mind has manged to catch over the years, but I'm 100% sure that Gretchen's affirmation is *false*. There is *no* way that the English contains a 90% of Latin words. And I know because the Spanish percentage of German words is about 10%, and it's a Romance language, which means that it's considered an evolution of Latin, which English is not. I'm nowhere sure of this numbers, but I think that actual Latin-evolved words in Spanish are some 55-60%. About a 20-25% is Arabic, a 10% Germanic and the rest a mix-and-match of different Languages (which is currently gaining ground thanks to *American* words such as "l?ser", "r?dar", "CD-ROM", etc.). Not even throwing especialized language into the fray would scale Latin up to 90% (although it would give it a big heave, if my parent's medical dictionaries are proof). And since Spanish has much more Latin than English has, there is no way the 90% figure can be sustained. The closest language to Latin (appart from Ecclesiastical Latin) is Italian, and I doubt *they* have a 90% figure, either -although I don't know, since I've never seen the figure. I'd say, however, that the invasions of Germanics in the post-Western-Roman-Empire and later the invasions of Turks and Spanish should've introduced new vocabulary into the language. Ginny wrote: > "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable > from magic." Arthur C. Clarke [edited for clarity] There's even a corolary to that one: "Any technology distinguisable from magic is insufuciently advanced" Gregory Benford The CS mind that drives me likes the second one particularly, since that's the phylosophy that gets pounded into you when attending Computer Systems Design. I found it somewhat inmoral, but the user actually demands it, and since he's the one that's giving the money, we have to do what he wants. Hope that helps, Grey Wolf, who is in great spirits today since the university he's going to next year hasn't completely *forgotten* about him: at least he still receives the generic information packages From janepenhaligon at yahoo.com Wed Aug 14 23:25:08 2002 From: janepenhaligon at yahoo.com (Jane Penhaligon) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 16:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] RE: Atkins Diet In-Reply-To: <003801c242f2$15812820$ac7afea9@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20020814232508.54679.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com> Renee Gunn wrote: >>The atkins diet is not healthy, nor is Sugar Busters or any other diet that limits foods that you can eat such as carbs. Carbs are highly important to your energy levels and the fuel your body produces. You should limit your carbs, but you should also eliminate the amount of high protein foods you eat as well as sugars and fats. Everything in moderation. Your best bet is to talk to your physician about the diet and whether or not it is a healthy diet for you to be on, just as you should with any diet you consider. >>>>>>>> I did talk to my doctor, and she put me on a low carb diet. I have such a slow metabolism that carbs turn to fat. By eating low carb and getting plenty of protein, I lose weight easily. All bodies aren't the same. Why should one diet work for everyone? Suzanne From jenP_97 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 15 00:19:13 2002 From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (jenP_97) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 00:19:13 -0000 Subject: Liguistics and the evolution of the English language In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Woohoo! My degree in linguistics (and a concentration of the history of the English language) finally comes in handy! ps. I'm re-formatting the text below to fix the nesting problems. --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "grey_wolf_c" wrote: Gretchen: About 90% of English words (and most European languages for that matter) have roots in the latin language. That is why the Latin derivitive is so important or could be so important. Eloise: Are you sure about that? I understood that about 50% of the words in common usage derive from Old English, which is a Germanic tongue. Of course, if you include scientific, technical and medical terms, the results are going to be skewed significantly towards Greek and Latin. French, Italian and Spanish have much higher Latin quotients thanEnglish, I would venture. GreyWolf: I make no pretence to know of linguistics, anymore than what my fly-paper mind has manged to catch over the years, but I'm 100% sure that Gretchen's affirmation is *false*. There is *no* way that the English contains a 90% of Latin words. And I know because the Spanish percentage of German words is about 10%, and it's a Romance language, which means that it's considered an evolution of Latin, which English is not. I'm nowhere sure of this numbers, but I think that actual Latin-evolved words in Spanish are some 55-60%. About a 20-25% is Arabic, a 10% Germanic and the rest a mix-and-match of different Languages (which is currently gaining ground thanks to *American* words such as "l?ser", "r?dar", "CD-ROM", etc.). Not even throwing especialized language into the fray would scale Latin up to 90% (although it would give it a big heave, if my parent's medical dictionaries are proof). And since Spanish has much more Latin than English has, there is no way the 90% figure can be sustained. The closest language to Latin (appart from Ecclesiastical Latin) is Italian, and I doubt *they* have a 90% figure, either -although I don't know, since I've never seen the figure. I'd say, however, that the invasions of Germanics in the post-Western-Roman-Empire and later the invasions of Turks and Spanish should've introduced new vocabulary into the language. Now it's my turn: Grey Wolf and Eloise are right - English is nowhere near 90% latin-based. For those of you who'd like a little history lesson, read on. :) The English language was primarily Germanic (Frisian, in fact) until the Norman invasion of 1066. All you Brits and Anglo- philes will remember this is the magic year that the French invaded England. Well. Because France now ran the country, they basically insisted that everyone speak French. Makes sense, I suppose - if you take over a country, you would expect your new subjects to speak your language. However, they ran into a little problem. The only people who would speak French were the upper class, i.e., the people who could write. The working class people were illiterate, and so didn't care one way or another what language the king and his court were speaking. They were going to keep on speaking good ol' English, thankyouverymuch. However, as time passed, a few words sort of migrated from French to English. It's hard to imagine a situation where words *wouldn't* be assimilated. So then we have the plague. As is pretty obvious, there is a big discrepancy in the populations of the "upper" class and the "working" classes. The plague didn't discriminate, so there were lots of deaths in both classes - but the "upper" class (i.e., French speakers) was much harder hit. All of a sudden, there weren't very many people who spoke French anymore... but there was a need to rally together. Solution? Speak English! Thus, England became an English-speaking country again. Okay, so I've *greatly* oversimplified, but that's the general idea. However, because of the length of time between the Norman Invasion and the Black Plague, there was considerable change in the language. A lot of French (and through French, Latinate) words came into the language. But the interesting part is this: When you are learning the basics of the English language (as a child, or an ESL learner), the first "main" words you learn are Germanic. Man, woman, child, home, wife, husband, bread, food, etc., are all related to German. However, once you've mastered the basics (for children, this is about age 6), you start incorporating more French-based language into your vocabulary. Hospital, carburator (sp?), intelligence... these are all Latinate. The percentage of French in people's English gradually increases as they advance through school... so the percentage of French in the English language is actually dependant on your level of education. In general, however, it's safe to say that English as it is today is about 50% Germanic and 40% French/Latin, with the remaining 10% made up of words from Celtic, various Native American languages, Arabic, and others. Boy, that was long-winded, but I suppose that could be expected, as I haven't had a chance to use my degree in so long. :) Jen, the sponge-brained... (in more ways than one, these days) From nee1 at worldnet.att.net Thu Aug 15 03:34:30 2002 From: nee1 at worldnet.att.net (Renee Gunn) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 22:34:30 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] RE: Atkins Diet References: <20020814232508.54679.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002c01c2440c$ab3ea160$ac7afea9@oemcomputer> Suzanne wrote: I did talk to my doctor, and she put me on a low carb diet. I have such a slow metabolism that carbs turn to fat. By eating low carb and getting plenty of protein, I lose weight easily. All bodies aren't the same. Why should one diet work for everyone? I also wrote, if you'd read the whole thing and not deleted some of what I wrote, that everyone is different and every diet works differently for everyone. :-D As well as writing that you should talk to your doctor for a healthy plan. Lowering carbs in moderation can be healthy (particulary when moderated by a medical physician), but lowering carbs severly, which is what a lot of people who follow Dr. Atkins and the Zone do is unhealthy. Nee Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________ Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/ Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying! Is your message... An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements. Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie. Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups. None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter. Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com ____________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From selah_1977 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 15 06:44:19 2002 From: selah_1977 at yahoo.com (selah_1977) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 06:44:19 -0000 Subject: Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fate of Human Societies Message-ID: Hi, OT-Chatter--long time no chat! I just read the book that attempts to answer the questions that I had in my ninth grade world history class: "This is world history? Okay, then--why is 90% of this textbook about Western civilization?" Ironically, the same year that I took that course, a controversial book called *The Bell Curve* came out. At least four sources this year led to my clamoring to read "Guns, Germs, and Steel"--a grad school seminar professor, a British ed-tour agency director I met in Madrid, Orson Scott Card's recent post-Ender novel "Shadow of the Hegemon", and Steven Barnes' alternate history novel "Lion's Blood". Quote from Amazon.com--"MacArthur fellow and UCLA evolutionary biologist Diamond takes as his theme no less than the rise of human civilizations. On the whole this is an impressive achievement, with nods to the historians, anthropologists, and others who have laid the groundwork. Diamond tells us that the impetus for the book came from a native New Guinea friend, Yali, who asked him, ``Why is it that you white people developed so much cargo and brought it to New Guinea, but we black people had little cargo of our own?'' The long and short of it, says Diamond, is biogeography." I've mostly read this now. I'd like to discuss it. Has anyone else read it? If others have read it and want to discuss, and there isn't enough interest here, please e-mail me at selah_1977 at yahoo.com so we can chat. Overall feeling: Compelling stuff, with a few caveats. --Ebony AKA AngieJ From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk Thu Aug 15 12:04:30 2002 From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 12:04:30 -0000 Subject: Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fate of Human Societies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ebony wrote: > At least four sources this year led to my clamoring to read "Guns, > Germs, and Steel > Quote from Amazon.com--"MacArthur fellow and UCLA evolutionary > biologist Diamond takes as his theme no less than the rise of human > civilizations. On the whole this is an impressive achievement, with > nods to the historians, anthropologists, and others who have laid the > groundwork. Diamond tells us that the impetus for the book came from > a native New Guinea friend, Yali, who asked him, ``Why is it that you > white people developed so much cargo and brought it to New Guinea, > but we black people had little cargo of our own?'' The long and short > of it, says Diamond, is biogeography." > > I've mostly read this now. I'd like to discuss it. Has anyone else > read it? :::::Bounces up and down with glee and waves her arm in the air Hermione-style::::: Me! Me! Me! OK, it's been a few years, but I'll happily reread it to discuss it. This is the sort of thing that I studied, so now *I* get to use my degree as well :::::waves to Jen P::::: Anyone else besides us two read it? Mary Ann (happy to discuss anything that doesn't involve Bob the Builder, Thomas the Tank Engine, or Barbie) From selah_1977 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 15 18:57:36 2002 From: selah_1977 at yahoo.com (selah_1977) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 18:57:36 -0000 Subject: Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fate of Human Societies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "macloudt" wrote: > > :::::Bounces up and down with glee and waves her arm in the air > Hermione-style::::: > > Me! Me! Me! OK, it's been a few years, but I'll happily reread it to discuss it. This is the sort of thing that I studied, so now *I* get to use my degree as well :::::waves to Jen P::::: > > Anyone else besides us two read it? > > Mary Ann > (happy to discuss anything that doesn't involve Bob the Builder, > Thomas the Tank Engine, or Barbie) Thanks, Mary Ann! I knew someone here had plowed through it. :-D I had mixed feelings about the book. While I'm glad that someone's posited a theory about the obvious disparities in the nations of the world today that doesn't have anything to do with race and genetics (for after all, there seems to be more aggregate genetic similarity between races than within them, as racially different populations in similar climes developed similar physiology--and separate evolution's still under debate), I (and a lot of others in the humanities, judging from the reviews) think that biogeography is too overemphasized in Diamond's otherwise impressive lay tome. While I don't accept biogenetics explanations for ethnic disparities, I do readily accept cultural ones. And I think that Diamond is ignoring culture to his own peril, especially when he ventures into recent history. Yes, often what happened to humankind from prehistory until now had been affected by the biomes that Homo Sapiens ended up in--mass extinction of large mammals in the Americas, tropical diseases in jungles worldwide and plant diversity that didn't encourage the rise of food production, etc. But what is being ignored by Diamond IMO is cultural traditions of introspective inquiry, exploration, and innovation. Now, this doesn't have much to do with race and ethnicity... if this survey had been conducted a millennium ago, then you would have had a different picture than the present, of course. At that time, medieval Islam was the site of this sort of inquiry necessary for technological advancement, while the majority of Europe (with the notable exception of the Vikings--but then again, they were among the last Christian converts, methinks) remained hampered by oppressive medieval Christendom. That was c. 1000 AD--if the past sheds any light onto the present, the rational mind will be excused for betting that the year 3000 will present another global paradigm that we cannot possibly predict. For example, the past 500 years of world history and the rise of the West are explained by a number of factors that every well-educated student knows. However, Western culture has been sustained during that same time period by a number of variables, a change in any one of which could topple the entire way of life and resort to another civilization having an advantage. For example, let me give an example that I give to my students every year. Today we are much more specialized than we were 100 years ago... to the point that we all know how to do a limited number of things and depend on others for the rest. I tell them that my specialized skill is my ability to teach others how to read, write, and engage in critical inquiry into the humanities. But my mother can do a bunch of things that I cannot. She can sew and weave, she can make many more things from scratch. My grandmother can go several better on that--she can and has fed her family from a garden that she tends, knows how to tend cash crops, and makes just about everything from scratch. And my great- grandfather built the house Grandma grew up in. I am not unique. I do suspect that all of us have similar stories. We are becoming increasingly dependent on technology. Sure, it's made our lives easier... but as Diamond shows over and over again, there have been civilizations and cultures in world history that have *had* more advanced tech then abandoned them, due to either cultural changes or necessity. I could go on and on about how this book made me think about the future of human civilizations. I really wish I knew someone in RL to talk to about it... but that will have to wait until I get back to seminars this fall. Until then, I'm glad OTC is here. --Ebony From psychic_serpent at yahoo.com Fri Aug 16 03:49:22 2002 From: psychic_serpent at yahoo.com (psychic_serpent) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 03:49:22 -0000 Subject: My Big Fat Greek Wedding (was: Liguistics/evolution of the English language) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "jenP_97" wrote: > And since Spanish has much more Latin than English has, there > is no way the 90% figure can be sustained. The closest language > to Latin (appart from Ecclesiastical Latin) is Italian, and I > doubt *they* have a 90% figure, either -although I don't know, > since I've never seen the figure. I'd say, however, that the > invasions of Germanics in the post-Western-Roman-Empire and > later the invasions of Turks and Spanish should've introduced > new vocabulary into the language. Now, I confess that while etymology fascinates me, I don't really care what the percentage of words is that came into English from different sources. (I do care, however, about existing English not being mangled, which it is all the time in today's world.) What this thread is mostly making me think of is a schtick from the film "My Big Fat Greek Wedding." spoiler space in case you haven't seen this very funny film yet There is a running gag in the film in which the main character's father habitually says to people, often to distract them, "Pick a word! Any word, and I will tell you how it comes from Greek!" When one of his daughter's friends gamely says, "Kimono!" he proceeds to give her an etymology from Greek! (A dubious one, to be sure, which is where the humor lies.) After a while, when you saw it coming, it caused groans, and yet--it was still pretty funny. Everyone I know also loved the Windex gag. It made a great kicker at the end. A lovely, affectionate look at Greek family life by a nice Greek girl who didn't grow up to marry a nice Greek boy, but her family still loves her anyway... --Barb http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychic_Serpent http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb From bray.262 at osu.edu Fri Aug 16 08:42:18 2002 From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 08:42:18 +0000 (EST5EDT) Subject: Tuck Everlasting Message-ID: <16800820A6F@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu> I got to see a sneak preview of Tuck Everlasting last night. I read the book in the 2nd or 3rd grade and a couple times more after that. If memory serves, the movie is really close to the book. It was wonderfully done. An absolute gem. If you were a fan of the book, I suggest seeing the movie when it comes out in October. Rachel Bray The Ohio State University Fees & Deposits Two buffalo were standing on the range when a passing tourist said, "Those are the mangiest, scroungiest, most moth-eaten, miserable beasts I have ever seen." One of the buffalo turned to the other and said, "You know, I think I just heard a discouraging word." From bray.262 at osu.edu Fri Aug 16 10:22:32 2002 From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:22:32 +0000 (EST5EDT) Subject: today on the calendar.... Message-ID: <169AC23635E@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu> If you have the movie daily calendar....please make note that today is Oliver Wood day. Heeee *blink....blink* ...anyway.... Rachel Bray The Ohio State University Fees & Deposits Two buffalo were standing on the range when a passing tourist said, "Those are the mangiest, scroungiest, most moth-eaten, miserable beasts I have ever seen." One of the buffalo turned to the other and said, "You know, I think I just heard a discouraging word." From rvotaw at i-55.com Fri Aug 16 14:21:23 2002 From: rvotaw at i-55.com (rvotaw at i-55.com) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:21:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] today on the calendar.... Message-ID: <1842320.1029507683571.JavaMail.root@webmail.i-55.com> > If you have the movie daily calendar....please make note > that today is Oliver Wood day. > > Heeee > > *blink....blink* > > ...anyway.... > > Rachel Bray I already took note of that. :) Richelle ---------- If you have the movie daily calendar....please make note that today is Oliver Wood day. Heeee *blink....blink* ...anyway.... Rachel Bray The Ohio State University Fees & Deposits Two buffalo were standing on the range when a passing tourist said, "Those are the mangiest, scroungiest, most moth-eaten, miserable beasts I have ever seen." One of the buffalo turned to the other and said, "You know, I think I just heard a discouraging word." ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________ Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/ Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying! Is your message... An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements. Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie. Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups. None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter. Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com ____________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From emmbp at yahoo.com Fri Aug 16 14:46:02 2002 From: emmbp at yahoo.com (emmbp) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 14:46:02 -0000 Subject: Liguistics and the evolution of the English language In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey All, long time no see! I've been on summer break without a decent internet connection for so long! Anyhow, just wanted to weigh in on the Linguistics discusion. Jen:> The percentage of > French in people's English gradually increases as they advance > through school... so the percentage of French in the English > language is actually dependant on your level of education. > In general, however, it's safe to say that English as it is > today is about 50% Germanic and 40% French/Latin, with the > remaining 10% made up of words from Celtic, various Native > American languages, Arabic, and others. When I was in Speech and Debate, I read a very interesting article on Word usage as I was preparing a persuasive speech. In this article it classified the English Language into three levels or classes. The first level was what Jen calls the Germanic level: simple words like husband, cat and dog. The second level was the Latinate words, not latin itself, but as Jen described, the Frenchified English. These are the more complex words like spouse, feline, and such. Many of these words are have cognates with Romance Languages, ie spouse/ esposo. (That's why I love Spanish!!!! It's so easy to understand if you have a large English Vocabulary) The 3rd level were words that are mostly scientific in nature, latin and greek words, that usually only specialists would understand. Any way the article suggested that It was not wise to use just one level of words in a persuasive speech. Even within sentences, you should use a wide variety of Level 1 and Level 2 words, so that you could speak to a wider range of people. As a persuasive speaker you want to appear educated, so it is imperative that you use Level 2 words, but you don't want to lose your audience, so you can't use simply Level 2 words, you've got to use level 1 words as well. And it gives you a better rythem, because the Germanic words tend to be one or two syllables, while Level 2 words tend to have more. It also suggested that you capitalize on the vast variety of synonyms in the English Language, because most words have at least one synonym in each of the three levels. On a side note, this summer of been working with a group of people whose first language is not english, but many have learned ESL, and it's kinda funny to hear them using more Level 2 words, because of they are cognates from their own language. Have a great time! Brady May you live in interesting times! From cloudmap at yahoo.com Fri Aug 16 16:05:03 2002 From: cloudmap at yahoo.com (cloudmap) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 16:05:03 -0000 Subject: Tuck Everlasting In-Reply-To: <16800820A6F@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Rachel Bray wrote: > I got to see a sneak preview of Tuck Everlasting last > night...If memory serves, the movie is really close to the book. It was wonderfully done. < Oh, that's good to hear. I read the book in elementary school, too, and when I saw that the actress playing Winnie (think that's the character's name) was in her late teens I worried that they were going to make it into a sappy teen romance flick. I just love the writing in that book. S P O I L E R Well, maybe not really a spoiler but I've always worried about the toad (or was it a frog?) though. Winnie had good intentions but was it really right to do what she did? And speaking of childhood favorites, I was trying to be optimistic but everytime I watch the trailer for "A Wrinkle in Time", I get more and more apprehensive. From bray.262 at osu.edu Fri Aug 16 13:10:54 2002 From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 13:10:54 +0000 (EST5EDT) Subject: This is GREAT!!!!! Message-ID: <16C7AC93FC9@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu> Hollywood Video 60 second theater presents.....Harry Potter! http://www.hollywoodvideo.com/mp3/HV-HarryPotter-5-24- 02.mp3 The Lord of the Rings one is great, too! http://www.hollywoodvideo.com/mp3/ring-galoshes.mp3 Rachel Bray The Ohio State University Fees & Deposits Two buffalo were standing on the range when a passing tourist said, "Those are the mangiest, scroungiest, most moth-eaten, miserable beasts I have ever seen." One of the buffalo turned to the other and said, "You know, I think I just heard a discouraging word." From jenP_97 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 16 17:24:21 2002 From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (jenP_97) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 17:24:21 -0000 Subject: Wrinkle in Time movie? was Re: Tuck Everlasting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "cloudmap" wrote: > And speaking of childhood favorites, I was trying to be optimistic > but everytime I watch the trailer for "A Wrinkle in Time", I get more > and more apprehensive. Okay, how out-of-the-loop am I, exactly? My daughter watches the Disney channel, so I know that a "made for tv" movie based on L'Engle's _A Ring of Endless Light_ is coming out... but I had no idea about _A Wrinkle in Time_ (perhaps *the* book that convinced me that reading was the best pasttime ever...). Is this a theater movie, or a tv movie? Where did you see trailers for it? Am I totally out of it? For the record, I just want to say that hearing you say there's going to be a movie coming out makes me apprehensive. I've already decided (in the 30-odd seconds I've known about it) that I don't think I want to go see it. ;) Jen, off to countingdown.com and imdb.com to find out more... From ZaraLyon at aol.com Fri Aug 16 18:22:45 2002 From: ZaraLyon at aol.com (aurigae_prime) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:22:45 -0000 Subject: Wrinkle in Time movie? was Re: Tuck Everlasting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jen wrote: > > Okay, how out-of-the-loop am I, exactly? My daughter watches > the Disney channel, so I know that a "made for tv" movie based > on L'Engle's _A Ring of Endless Light_ is coming out... but I > had no idea about _A Wrinkle in Time_ (perhaps *the* book that > convinced me that reading was the best pasttime ever...). Is > this a theater movie, or a tv movie? Where did you see trailers > for it? > > Am I totally out of it? For the record, I just want to say that > hearing you say there's going to be a movie coming out makes me > apprehensive. I've already decided (in the 30-odd seconds I've > known about it) that I don't think I want to go see it. ;) > Well, A Ring Of Endless Light will premiere in about a week (Aug. 23 to be exact). Frankly, THAT movie has me terrified. It's like a train wreck I can't look away from. Endless Light is my favourite of L'Engle's books, and Disney has taken the main theme of the movie (accepting that death is part of and an affirmation of life) and relegated it to the background as the characters fight to save dolphins from fishing nets. And the sad part is, that I know I'm going to watch it. Compared to that, the Wrinkle in Time movie looks like heaven on earth. It's meant to be a four-hour miniseries, to air on ABC in the US, presumably this November, but I heard that reshooting is going on so it may be delayed. Actually, the trailer I saw looks fairly good... my only real nitpick is that Meg's parents first names were changed. And even that isn't a HUGE deal, since we don't learn their names in Wrinkle that I can remember. Personally, I think that since it's to be done in a miniseries format, that will greatly increase the quality of the movie. I've looked at the cast, and the actor playing Dr. Murry seems like he'll do a pretty good job (he played Dr. David in the US Queer As Folk, and I can definitely see him as Dr. Murry). The website for the actress playing Meg has some photos of her-- she fits my vision of Meg pretty well, and from what I can tell she seems pretty dedicated to doing a good job with this role. Here's a question, in case anyone knows the answer: L'Engle is supposed to be working on a new book, another one about Meg. Has anyone heard anything about publishing dates? I'm waiting for this as anxiously as I am OoP. Rhiannon, the L'Engle fanatic/L.O.O.N., who also read Tuck Everlasting and was also afraid that it would be a teen romance. I'm glad it doesn't seem that way in the trailer, but I still think that the girl playing Winnie looks too old. From cloudmap at yahoo.com Fri Aug 16 20:38:33 2002 From: cloudmap at yahoo.com (cloudmap) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 20:38:33 -0000 Subject: Wrinkle in Time movie? was Re: Tuck Everlasting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "jenP_97" wrote: > ... but I had no idea about _A Wrinkle in Time_ (perhaps *the* book > that convinced me that reading was the best pasttime ever...). Is > this a theater movie, or a tv movie? Where did you see trailers > for it? < As it has already been noted, the AWiT project is a mini-series for "The Wonderful World of Disney". It was originally slated to air, I think, last autumn but got moved to February and then subsequently September 2002. Madeleine L'Engle's personal site stays it hasn't any confirmed air dates and to check back for news. I'll have to dig up the address for where I saw the trailer on the web. It's also available on the "Spy Kids" DVD (don't know about the VHS version). --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "aurigae_prime" wrote: > Compared to that, the Wrinkle in Time movie looks like heaven on > earth. < I hope you're right :). Like I said, I'm trying to be optimistic but the trailer set a few alarms off for me. It shows what appears to be Mr. Murry in a lab when "something" goes wrong and there's also a different scene of him having a heart-to-heart chat with Meg out on the star-gazing rock. I'm presuming at least one, possibly both, of these incidents take place before he disappears which means that the audience will meet Mr. Murry before the children rescue him. I rather liked how in the book the unseen Mr. Murry was this mysterious, looming figure. When the reader is finally introduced to him, it's quite surprising. My other main concern is that the movie looks so...well...contemporary. One thing that always struck me about L'Engle's Time Quartet books are that they have this odd "nostalgic/futuristic" vibe to them. Some elements seem to echo the 1960-70's era but there are also hints that these stories take place in the near future. There's a timelessness about them that perfectly fits the stories and themes. I can't explain it; it's just a personal feeling I get from those books. But the movie looks like any other family film circa 2002 - nothing unique except for some spiffy visual effects. And of course, nothing and no one looks like how I pictured them, but I can live with that. Maybe :) . Oh, and one other very important thing. I can't imagine what the odds would be in finding a child actor who could match Charles Wallace's preternatural maturity and strangeness. I so, so hope that the mini- series is good and am definately willing to give it a chance. Anyway, there's always the book to come back to if the movie doesn't meet my hopes and expectations! I have to remind myself when/if Tom Hanks ever does get around to filming "The Polar Express". > Here's a question, in case anyone knows the answer: L'Engle is > supposed to be working on a new book, another one about Meg. Has > anyone heard anything about publishing dates? I'm waiting for this > as anxiously as I am OoP. < I've read that L'Engle was writing a book about Meg at age 50. She was reportedly about half-way finished but then suffered a series of personal problems and tragedies over the past few years and work on the book has understandably been delayed. Howver she has had a number of new titles published in the interim so there is hope that the Meg book will one day be released. Whew! That was a long message :) . My apologizes in advance for any typos and other mistakes. From smilingfalcon at yahoo.com Sat Aug 17 04:08:49 2002 From: smilingfalcon at yahoo.com (smilingfalcon) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 04:08:49 -0000 Subject: Attack of the Skrewt Spawn In-Reply-To: <001a01c24095$6bc9fea0$c27663d1@texas.net> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amanda Geist" wrote: "They looked like deformed, shell-less lobsters, horribly pale and slimy-looking, with legs sticking out in very odd places and no visible heads...I am horrified....I am NOT going to allow anything that looks like this to get away alive..." I'm sorry if this is a bit old for the rest of you, but I simply must thank Amanda the Skrewt-Killer for the story of her encounter with the mutated creature in her garage. I had been trapped in the throes of a very nasty insomnia attack, and since I was too cranky, tired, petulant, and just-plain-miserable to do anything constructive, I thought I'd have a look around the website. I read the story of the Skrewt encounter, and suddenly found myself laughing so hard I'm surprised I didn't wake the rest of the house. (I too, cannot abide bugs). I never did get to sleep that night, but, thanks to the Skrewt Attack I did manage to get through most of yesterday with a smile on my face...Of course, part of the reason I was smiling came from the knowledge that I live in a place where such monstrosities don't exist: *Eeurgh* is a pretty accurate description! Thanks again, O Valiant Skrewt Slayer! SmilingFalcon From minga at idx.com.au Sun Aug 18 09:41:22 2002 From: minga at idx.com.au (mingarooni) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 09:41:22 -0000 Subject: hogwarts notebook images Message-ID: To save me searching around every Harry Potter site on the net, does anyone know who did these gorgeous images? http://minga.idx.com.au/hp.htm and if there are any more around? thanks in advance, Belinda From heidit at netbox.com Sun Aug 18 10:57:26 2002 From: heidit at netbox.com (heidit at netbox.com) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 10:57:26 -0000 Subject: [[HPFGU-OTChatter] hogwarts notebook images] Message-ID: <20020818105726.5567.qmail@uadvg137.cms.usa.net> "mingarooni" wrote: > Real-To: "mingarooni" > > To save me searching around every Harry Potter site on the net, does > anyone know who did these gorgeous images? > > http://minga.idx.com.au/hp.htm > > and if there are any more around? > I don't know who did those exact sketches but they're almost exact replicas of the pictures that WB released for people to use on websites through the HP Webmaster Community at harrypotter.com. If you're looking for fanart, there's a tonne of wonderful sites, including Marauders (http://www.mauraders.nu/hpmonthly/), 9Muses (http://www.theninemuses.net/art.html), Magsby's Pages (http://www.side7.com/art/maggbrad/gallery.html), StarlingArt (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/starlingart/) and of course (shameless self-promotion) ArtisticAlley (http://www.artisticalley.org/reviews/). heidi ____________________________________________________________________ This message was sent from my Palm wireless email account. From strijkg at xs4all.nl Sun Aug 18 13:56:45 2002 From: strijkg at xs4all.nl (Riet Strijker) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 15:56:45 +0200 (West-Europa (zomertijd)) Subject: [[HPFGU-OTChatter] hogwarts notebook images] References: <20020818105726.5567.qmail@uadvg137.cms.usa.net> Message-ID: <3D5FA79D.000001.32189@xbwesrtn> All the links you gave Heidi, are not working. So sorry to give you the bad news :-( Riet -------Original Message------- From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Date: zondag 18 augustus 2002 12:57:33 To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [[HPFGU-OTChatter] hogwarts notebook images] "mingarooni" wrote: > Real-To: "mingarooni" > > To save me searching around every Harry Potter site on the net, does > anyone know who did these gorgeous images? > > http://minga.idx.com.au/hp.htm > > and if there are any more around? > I don't know who did those exact sketches but they're almost exact replicas of the pictures that WB released for people to use on websites through the HP Webmaster Community at harrypotter.com. If you're looking for fanart, there's a tonne of wonderful sites, including Marauders (http://www.mauraders.nu/hpmonthly/), 9Muses (http://www.theninemuses.net/art.html), Magsby's Pages (http://www.side7.com/art/maggbrad/gallery.html), StarlingArt (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/starlingart/) and of course (shameless self-promotion) ArtisticAlley (http://www.artisticalley.org/reviews/). heidi ____________________________________________________________________ This message was sent from my Palm wireless email account. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk Sun Aug 18 14:41:05 2002 From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 15:41:05 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) Subject: [[HPFGU-OTChatter] hogwarts notebook images] References: <20020818105726.5567.qmail@uadvg137.cms.usa.net> Message-ID: <3D5FB201.000001.72661@monica> The reason the links aren't working is the close bracket sign has somehow become part of the link. Delete that and they should be fine K -------Original Message------- From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Date: 18 August 2002 11:57:33 To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [[HPFGU-OTChatter] hogwarts notebook images] "mingarooni" wrote: > Real-To: "mingarooni" > > To save me searching around every Harry Potter site on the net, does > anyone know who did these gorgeous images? > > http://minga.idx.com.au/hp.htm > > and if there are any more around? > I don't know who did those exact sketches but they're almost exact replicas of the pictures that WB released for people to use on websites through the HP Webmaster Community at harrypotter.com. If you're looking for fanart, there's a tonne of wonderful sites, including Marauders (http://www.mauraders.nu/hpmonthly/), 9Muses (http://www.theninemuses.net/art.html), Magsby's Pages (http://www.side7.com/art/maggbrad/gallery.html), StarlingArt (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/starlingart/) and of course (shameless self-promotion) ArtisticAlley (http://www.artisticalley.org/reviews/). heidi ____________________________________________________________________ This message was sent from my Palm wireless email account. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From darkstar_2814 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 18 18:55:54 2002 From: darkstar_2814 at yahoo.com (darkstar_2814) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 18:55:54 -0000 Subject: Are students of specific houses better at certain classes? Message-ID: For instance, do Slytherins have a natural talent for Potions? Or Hufflepuffs with Herbology? Sure, we've all seen that Hermione is an expert in Transfiguration. But what about any others? Do they have a natural talent in their House's class than others? Discuss. Jack ----------- "If I leave here tomorrow, will you still remember me?" - Ronnie VanZant From strijkg at xs4all.nl Tue Aug 20 19:25:20 2002 From: strijkg at xs4all.nl (Riet Strijker) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 21:25:20 +0200 (West-Europa (zomertijd)) Subject: Question about Snape Message-ID: <3D6297A0.000003.30451@xbwesrtn> In an other group someone asked this: someone talked of a radio interview with JKR, and she was asked if Snape would ever fall in love. She was surprised at the question and apparently replied "Why would anyone want Snape in love with them?" Then later said. "You'll find out why in book 7" Does anyone know if this interview exists and even where to find it? Maybe our honourable goat, as he likes to assemble all the interviews, will know? I hope to get some answers, Riet "A room without books is like a body without a soul" Marcus Tullius Cicero (106-43 BC) "It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live." (Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, p. 157) "Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony" - Mohandas K. Ghandi (1869-1948) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jenw118 at HotPOP.com Tue Aug 20 19:33:44 2002 From: jenw118 at HotPOP.com (Jennifer R. Wilson) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 14:33:44 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Question about Snape References: <3D6297A0.000003.30451@xbwesrtn> Message-ID: <004901c24880$8359a820$68c5fbd8@oemcomputer> Riet asked: In an other group someone asked this: someone talked of a radio interview with JKR, and she was asked if Snape would ever fall in love. She was surprised at the question and apparently replied "Why would anyone want Snape in love with them?" Then later said. "You'll find out why in book 7" Does anyone know if this interview exists and even where to find it? Maybe our honourable goat, as he likes to assemble all the interviews, will know? I have a site that has many of the interviews on them. This is thanks to Phyllis for the link. Here it is: http://www.geocities.com/aberforths_goat/text.htm I just checked and there is indeed audio/video interviews. Here is the link to that page, to further help: http://www.geocities.com/aberforths_goat/audio.htm You can also search this wonderful site for the one you are looking for :) Hope I helped, Jennifer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From joym999 at aol.com Tue Aug 20 20:41:13 2002 From: joym999 at aol.com (joytest999) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 20:41:13 -0000 Subject: Atkins Diet In-Reply-To: <002c01c2440c$ab3ea160$ac7afea9@oemcomputer> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Renee Gunn" wrote: > lowering carbs severly, which is what a lot of people who follow Dr. Atkins and the Zone do is unhealthy. > How do you know that? I've always heard that, as well, but a recent article in the New York Times Magazine: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magazine/07FAT.html says that the claims by the AMA and other mainstream medical and health organizations that low carb diets are unhealthy are based on absolutely NO evidence, research or studies at all. This guy says that there is also no evidence that low carb, high protein diets cause the heart or kidney problems that the medical establishment says they will. I've just read thru the thread on diets and lots of people on this group say that low carb diets are unhealthy, but are any of you basing this on actual scientific evidence? I'm not trying to be combatative, I'm just really fascinated by this whole dispute -- since the author of the Times article makes a good case for his position that the medical establishment is just wrong on this one. I'm also not advocating Atkins or any other diet -- I'm not on one, although I probably should be -- but I know that lots of people don't lose weight on low-fat diets. I'd love to know what people think of the Time article. --Joywitch M. Curmudgeon, who hasn't dropped by OTC in a long time and is glad to see that things are hoppin' here From john at queerasjohn.com Wed Aug 21 01:14:47 2002 From: john at queerasjohn.com (Queer as John) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 21:14:47 -0400 Subject: NYC Get-together this Saturday! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all! Just a quick note to say that there is going to be an HP Fandom get-together in New York City this Saturday, in honor of the visit of Amandar, Queen of Eternia (AKA the Amandageist) and Sheryll, the Birthday Elf! If you'd like to be informed of what's happening when, please drop me a line at john at queerasjohn.com and I'll keep you in the loop. Cheers, --John _________________________________________________ Queer as John || john at queerasjohn.com LJ @ www.queerasjohn.com YM @ queerasjohn "There's nowt as queer as folk." --English proverb _________________________________________________ From nee1 at worldnet.att.net Wed Aug 21 01:42:45 2002 From: nee1 at worldnet.att.net (Renee Gunn) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 20:42:45 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Atkins Diet References: Message-ID: <004301c248b4$392f27a0$4011540c@oemcomputer> I'm a biology major and have taken several courses in physiology and have several friends and know quite a few respected research specialists in the field of nutrition and biochemistry and in discussing various diets with them, they've informed me for the majority of people, it isn't healthy. It isn't the only diet they've explained to me as being unhealthy and why, but it is one of them. As I've said several times. For the MAJORITY of people, it is not the healthiest option, for SOME people the diet works and works well, and that's a great thing. For the most part though you should talk to a doctor and a nutritionist to determine, based on your psychological, past eating history and medical history what is the best thing for you. Renee ----- Original Message ----- From: joytest999 To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 3:41 PM Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Atkins Diet --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Renee Gunn" wrote: > lowering carbs severly, which is what a lot of people who follow Dr. Atkins and the Zone do is unhealthy. > How do you know that? I've always heard that, as well, but a recent article in the New York Times Magazine: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magazine/07FAT.html says that the claims by the AMA and other mainstream medical and health organizations that low carb diets are unhealthy are based on absolutely NO evidence, research or studies at all. This guy says that there is also no evidence that low carb, high protein diets cause the heart or kidney problems that the medical establishment says they will. I've just read thru the thread on diets and lots of people on this group say that low carb diets are unhealthy, but are any of you basing this on actual scientific evidence? I'm not trying to be combatative, I'm just really fascinated by this whole dispute -- since the author of the Times article makes a good case for his position that the medical establishment is just wrong on this one. I'm also not advocating Atkins or any other diet -- I'm not on one, although I probably should be -- but I know that lots of people don't lose weight on low-fat diets. I'd love to know what people think of the Time article. --Joywitch M. Curmudgeon, who hasn't dropped by OTC in a long time and is glad to see that things are hoppin' here Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________ Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/ Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying! Is your message... An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements. Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie. Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups. None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter. Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com ____________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From morrigan at byz.org Wed Aug 21 03:32:43 2002 From: morrigan at byz.org (Vicki) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 22:32:43 -0500 Subject: Austin Get Together This Saturday! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm posting this just so I can be like John. ;P~ No, not really. A number of people from the great state of Texas are meandering over to Austin for a little HPness this Saturday. I think it may be in honor of the fact that I'm leaving Texas to go back to Chicago. Yes, they're celebrating that. No really, I'm just kidding!! In all seriousness, if anyone is in the area and wants to come out and hang with other crazed Harry Potter fans doing nothing in particular, drop me an email. Vicki :) morrigan at byz.org www.byz.org/~morrigan www.livejournal.com/users/morrigan_veela From boggles at earthlink.net Thu Aug 22 01:44:17 2002 From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:44:17 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Austin Get Together This Saturday! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 10:32 PM -0500 8/20/02, Vicki wrote: > >A number of people from the great state of Texas are meandering over to >Austin for a little HPness this Saturday. AAAAARRRRGGH! I'm in Houston - give me more warning next time! :( Sorry to be missing the fun, -- - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon boggles at earthlink.net === Personal Growth Geek Code v0.4 === GG++ !T A-- M++s--- g+ B- C- P++++ a- b- h+ her++ E+ N n++ i f+ c++ S%++++&&># D R++ xc++ xm+ xi+ yd++ ys++(-) rt+ ro+ rp++++ rjk<+ ow+++ ofn+ oft++ op++ esk-- ey+ ek+++ pl++ pf++ pe++ U! From dawbin99 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 23 20:27:53 2002 From: dawbin99 at yahoo.com (dawbin99) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 20:27:53 -0000 Subject: thank you teachers Message-ID: Thanks to everyone who responded to my question on teaching Harry Potter in the classroom. I really appreciated the advise. I had a meeting with an advisor and have taken one more step to completing my eduation. Thanks again. Dawn From lupinesque at yahoo.com Sat Aug 24 02:13:11 2002 From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (lupinesque) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 02:13:11 -0000 Subject: Triple birthday! Message-ID: The Birthday Elf (Ret.) suddenly glances at the calendar and sees a terrible confluence of events. There are three, count 'em, three birthdays of HPfGUers on this very day, and also a purple Post-It stuck to August 23 says "Am in NYC stalking Alan Rickman. --The Birthday Elf." Oh no! And to make it worse, as she glances at the clocks arrayed around the room, she sees: San Francisco 7 p.m. . . . La Paz 11 p.m. . . . Zurich 4 a.m. *August 24.* Damn and blast! Sorry, Goat! Hope you had a great birthday! People with Time-Turners can put one on their owl and wish him a timely h.b. at mike at aberforthsgoat.net. AND ~Joy~ is still celebrating and can be showered with Bertie Botts at joyw at gwu.edu. Hope it's a magical one, Joy! AND Abbie (starling) also entered the world on this day and will graciously receive owls at starling823 at yahoo.com. Happy happy, Abbie! As always, felicitations can also be sent c/o this list. The Birthday Elf (Ret.) flipping frantically through the Joy of Elvish Cooking for the spell for instant cake From gypsycaine at neo.rr.com Sat Aug 24 02:20:10 2002 From: gypsycaine at neo.rr.com (Dee R) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 22:20:10 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Triple birthday! References: Message-ID: <015f01c24b14$c5cbeba0$1f38d118@neo.rr.com> Oh, my! Happy Birthday to my fellow Virgo-ians! :D Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: lupinesque To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 10:13 PM Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Triple birthday! The Birthday Elf (Ret.) suddenly glances at the calendar and sees a terrible confluence of events. There are three, count 'em, three birthdays of HPfGUers on this very day, and also a purple Post-It stuck to August 23 says "Am in NYC stalking Alan Rickman. --The Birthday Elf." Oh no! And to make it worse, as she glances at the clocks arrayed around the room, she sees: San Francisco 7 p.m. . . . La Paz 11 p.m. . . . Zurich 4 a.m. *August 24.* Damn and blast! Sorry, Goat! Hope you had a great birthday! People with Time-Turners can put one on their owl and wish him a timely h.b. at mike at aberforthsgoat.net. AND ~Joy~ is still celebrating and can be showered with Bertie Botts at joyw at gwu.edu. Hope it's a magical one, Joy! AND Abbie (starling) also entered the world on this day and will graciously receive owls at starling823 at yahoo.com. Happy happy, Abbie! As always, felicitations can also be sent c/o this list. The Birthday Elf (Ret.) flipping frantically through the Joy of Elvish Cooking for the spell for instant cake Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________ Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/ Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying! Is your message... An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements. Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie. Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups. None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter. Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com ____________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lupinesque at yahoo.com Sat Aug 24 02:40:43 2002 From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (lupinesque) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 02:40:43 -0000 Subject: Another belated birthday! Message-ID: *puff puff* And here I thought I'd spend my sunset years playing shuffleboard. *rolls enormous cake into room* Ali (alhewison, Ali at zymurgy.org) also celebrated a birthday this week, on the 21st. Happy birthday, Ali! T.B.E. (Ret.) From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 24 03:39:47 2002 From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda the Witch) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 20:39:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Triple birthday! Goat,Joy,and Abbie! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020824033947.76330.qmail@web13701.mail.yahoo.com> lupinesque wrote: There are three, count 'em, three birthdays of HPfGUers on this very day! mike at aberforthsgoat.net AND ~Joy~ joyw at gwu.edu. AND Abbie starling823 at yahoo.com The Birthday Elf (Ret.) More party time! Better late than never! Happy Birthday you three! Hope all of you are having fun and still having fun! may you all get plenty of HP goodies and and may you all get your Birthday wishes! Forgive the Birthday Elf, she had a busy time chasing her man! Hope she got him! Schnoogles, Wanda trhe Witch of Revere,Massachusetts and Her Very Merry Band of Muggles 100%! "When you come to the edge of all the light you know, and are about to step off into the darkness of the unknown, faith is knowing one of two things will happen; There will be something solid to stand on, or you will be taught how to fly."......Unknown. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk Sat Aug 24 08:07:28 2002 From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 08:07:28 -0000 Subject: *Quadruple* (did I spell that right?) birthday! In-Reply-To: <20020824033947.76330.qmail@web13701.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: OK, Ali's birthday was a few days beforehand, but I don't think anyone will mind if I dump all the birthday babes together ;) I hope you all had brilliant birthdays and had plenty of HP goodies. I'll raise a glass of fortified butterbeer in your health...after work, that is! Mary Ann (founding member of the HPfGU Perpetually 29 Club) From pinguthegreek at ukf.net Sat Aug 24 20:45:17 2002 From: pinguthegreek at ukf.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 21:45:17 +0100 Subject: New Zealand wants a wizard Message-ID: <001e01c24baf$28828e80$db9f01d4@john> Hello everyone ! I just found this story on the BBC news webiste and I think it's one that you'll all have a chuckle at ! Here's where you can find it : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/2214505.stm I'd love to know what you all think of it !! Michelle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From alexpie at aol.com Sun Aug 25 01:29:50 2002 From: alexpie at aol.com (alexpie at aol.com) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 21:29:50 EDT Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Digest Number 742 Message-ID: <159.1310a013.2a998d0e@aol.com> I'd love to know who else on the list is stalking AR--it's been the focus of my summer! Cheers-- Ba From catlady at wicca.net Sun Aug 25 05:56:50 2002 From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 05:56:50 -0000 Subject: New Zealand wants a wizard In-Reply-To: <001e01c24baf$28828e80$db9f01d4@john> Message-ID: Btw, yesterday must have been a pretty amazing day, to be the birthday of so many fabulous people (and goats): I hope that all of you have a happy year, Mike, ~Joy~, Abbie Starling, and Gypsycaine! --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Michelle Apostolides" wrote: > I just found this story on the BBC news website > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/2214505.stm If this was April, I would think it was an April Fool ... in the US, there are some women who have persuaded various Mayors, City Councils, and even Governors to appoint them Official Witch of their city or state ... Laurie Cabot worked being Official Witch of Salem for all she could get out of it ... but the idea of the position having such bennies as a "special tax-free status" or having job requirements kind of freaks me out. That one of the requirements is "believ[ing] in the "fun revolution" " is totally weird! From lupinesque at yahoo.com Sun Aug 25 11:38:47 2002 From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (lupinesque) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 11:38:47 -0000 Subject: Happy birthday to Jo Serenadust! Message-ID: Still stuffed full of cake from our quadruple birthday bash? Have one more slice in honor of Jo Serenadust's birthday today. It's wafer thin! Hope your day is magical, Jo! Owls will find Jo here or at jmmears at comcast.net. Amy Z who could use a sprinkling of serenadust some days From tabouli at unite.com.au Sun Aug 25 15:35:33 2002 From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 01:35:33 +1000 Subject: Steeling Germinating Guns? Message-ID: <001401c24c4d$1684f440$e3c932d2@price> Hang in there Ebony... I'm about 2/3 of the way through 'Guns, Germs and Steel', and I haven't forgotten you! Interesting. Very interesting. Being a fan of natural history and anthropology, I could happily read all day about geography and plants and animals. Politics I find much less exciting (so now he's reached modern times and is going on about taxes and political structures my reading rate has started to drop off), but I'll get there in a few days. On the culture issue, it's long been speculated in the cross-cultural literature that cultural values arise from the sort of things he's writing about, namely environment, geography, climate, etc. From what I've read, he does a good job of summarising those factors, but keeps his reference to the associated cultural values oblique because he, perhaps, doesn't want to weaken his thesis. Cultural values muddy the waters, make it easier to blame groups for their own misfortune, so he avoids them as much as he can. He does, for example, briefly comment that there were a lot of small bands with different attitudes towards adopting new technology in New Guinea, and says something like "as one would expect in so varied a terrain", but then changes the subject hastily. I'm interested in where the different attitudes come from, and how they're related to the specific terrain that band of people was in, and so on. If some bands resisted technology, why was this? Having an inflexible leader? If so, how did that person rise to the leadership? What skill or behaviour or appearance did that band value, and why? And so on. But hey, it's a long book as it is, and speculation about crops and tools and things that leave concrete remains is much easier than speculation about airy-fairy abstract concepts like "values". What prompted me to write at this interim stage is not the book yet. Oo no. It's the amazon.com reviews I've just been reading, prompted by your comments. Some of the negative ones (you know the ones I mean) are enough to chill the blood... Tabouli. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bray.262 at osu.edu Tue Aug 27 09:09:01 2002 From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 09:09:01 +0000 (EST5EDT) Subject: has anyone heard..... Message-ID: <1C80E604C@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu> I was in the car Sunday morning and was listening to Dr. Demento. He said something about "coming up next" blah blah blah "Quidditch Ball Wizard...." I had to get out of my car before he played it. Has anyone heard this? Rachel Bray The Ohio State University Fees & Deposits We're knights of the Round Table, we dance whene'er we're able. We do routines and chorus scenes with footwork impec-cable, We dine well here in Camelot, we eat ham and jam and Spam a lot. / We're knights of the Round Table, our shows are for-mi-dable. But many times we're given rhymes that are quite un-sing-able, We're opera mad in Camelot, we sing from the diaphragm a lot. / In war we're tough and able, Quite in-de-fa- ti-gable. Between our quests we sequin vests and impersonate Clark Gable / It's a busy life in Camelot From lupinesque at yahoo.com Tue Aug 27 14:31:42 2002 From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (lupinesque) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 14:31:42 -0000 Subject: has anyone heard..... In-Reply-To: <1C80E604C@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Rachel Bray wrote: > I was in the car Sunday morning and was listening to Dr. > Demento. He said something about "coming up next" blah > blah blah "Quidditch Ball Wizard...." > > I had to get out of my car before he played it. > > Has anyone heard this? Drat. I wrote a whole reply to this and Yahoomort ate it. I hadn't heard this 'til you mentioned it, Rachel, but I found a snippet you can hear on RealPlayer at www.stevegoodie.com. (That's the name of the singer/writer and he seems pretty funny--I liked "Ned Beatty (Had the Hardest Part).") The HP one seems pretty funny, too, and has some interesting things to say about Harry's character defects. I was so inspired that I went looking for radio stations near me that carry Dr. Demento, but there don't seem to be any near me. I used to listen every Sunday night without fail. Maybe I can lobby a local station to start carrying it. Amy Z From jferer at yahoo.com Tue Aug 27 17:42:45 2002 From: jferer at yahoo.com (jferer) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 17:42:45 -0000 Subject: has anyone heard..... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Long time no talk... the drdemento.com website has previous shows you can listen to on Real Audio; maybe we can find it. --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "lupinesque" wrote: > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Rachel Bray wrote: > > I was in the car Sunday morning and was listening to Dr. > > Demento. He said something about "coming up next" blah > > blah blah "Quidditch Ball Wizard...." > > > > I had to get out of my car before he played it. > > > > Has anyone heard this? > > Drat. I wrote a whole reply to this and Yahoomort ate it. > > I hadn't heard this 'til you mentioned it, Rachel, but I found a > snippet you can hear on RealPlayer at www.stevegoodie.com. (That's > the name of the singer/writer and he seems pretty funny--I liked "Ned > Beatty (Had the Hardest Part).") The HP one seems pretty funny, too, > and has some interesting things to say about Harry's character > defects. > > I was so inspired that I went looking for radio stations near me that > carry Dr. Demento, but there don't seem to be any near me. I used to > listen every Sunday night without fail. Maybe I can lobby a local > station to start carrying it. > > Amy Z From speedygonzo242 at hotmail.com Tue Aug 27 19:03:09 2002 From: speedygonzo242 at hotmail.com (frankielee242) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 19:03:09 -0000 Subject: *Quadruple* (did I spell that right?) birthday! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Happy birthday slightly late to Goat, Joy, Abbie and Ali!! Heartfelt, but chronically challenged birthday greetings... Oh, to have a timeturner... Hope you guys had a great time celebrating over the weekend. =) Frankie --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "macloudt" wrote: > OK, Ali's birthday was a few days beforehand, but I don't think > anyone will mind if I dump all the birthday babes together ;) I hope > you all had brilliant birthdays and had plenty of HP goodies. I'll > raise a glass of fortified butterbeer in your health...after work, > that is! > > Mary Ann > (founding member of the HPfGU Perpetually 29 Club) From speedygonzo242 at hotmail.com Tue Aug 27 19:06:02 2002 From: speedygonzo242 at hotmail.com (frankielee242) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 19:06:02 -0000 Subject: Happy birthday to Jo Serenadust! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: YAY!! Happy birthday to Jo, too!! =D Popular week for birthdays innit? Frankie --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "lupinesque" wrote: > Still stuffed full of cake from our quadruple birthday bash? Have > one more slice in honor of Jo Serenadust's birthday today. It's wafer > thin! > > Hope your day is magical, Jo! > > Owls will find Jo here or at jmmears at c... > > Amy Z > who could use a sprinkling of serenadust some days From rvotaw at i-55.com Wed Aug 28 02:17:14 2002 From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 21:17:14 -0500 Subject: Harry Potter Hallmark Ornaments References: Message-ID: <013f01c24e39$073966e0$7aa3cdd1@istu757> Has anyone seen pictures of these? I saw a couple of small photos at a Hallmark store last weekend, I think they are much cuter than the ones from last year. The one that will be available in October is a Quidditch one, Harry and another seeker chasing the Snitch. Complete with wind up motion. A hefty $24, but I reckon I'll buy it anyway. The second one is to be released in November, Harry with Invisibility Cloak. Looks like he's in the process of putting it on, thus we can still see him and they aren't selling us an invisibile ornament. :) Both are from SS/PS from the looks/sound, no new CoS ornaments yet. Of course, I'm not sure I want a Basilisk hanging on my Christmas tree. If these links work you can see pictures here: http://www.hallmark.com/hmk/Website/Shopping/sh_productdetail.jsp?BV_Session ID=@@@@1430675642.1030500525@@@@&BV_EngineID=dadcfcfjkifibedcfchcgf.0&fromPa ge=/Website/Shopping/is_prod_catalog_inc.jsp&CONTENT_KEY=QXI8656&CONTENT_TYP E=PRODUCT&type=prod&oid=125810&suboid=-107611 http://www.hallmark.com/hmk/Website/Shopping/sh_productdetail.jsp?BV_Session ID=@@@@1430675642.1030500525@@@@&BV_EngineID=dadcfcfjkifibedcfchcgf.0&fromPa ge=/Website/Shopping/is_prod_catalog_inc.jsp&CONTENT_KEY=QXI8663&CONTENT_TYP E=PRODUCT&type=prod&oid=125812&suboid=-107611 Richelle From ruhgozler at yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 00:41:27 2002 From: ruhgozler at yahoo.com (Linda Williams) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 17:41:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: has anyone heard..... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020828004127.90080.qmail@web40409.mail.yahoo.com> --- jferer wrote: > Long time no talk... > > the drdemento.com website has previous shows you can > listen to on > Real Audio; maybe we can find it. > If you join the Dr. Demento society you get a set of tapes as a "gift". Quidditch Ball Wizard is one of the songs. Linda ===== "Tripe, Sibyll?" - McGonagall, POA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From dradamsapple at yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 04:20:13 2002 From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 04:20:13 -0000 Subject: Alan Rickman interview Message-ID: Ok, so I think I'm getting on the Alan Rickman bandwagon! I just finished watching an interview he did this past june (6/07/02) with Charlie Rose on PBS. They just aired it again this evening, me seeing this for the first time. He's a very interesting person, very subdued, but a great actor. They showed clips of the play he's doing in NY, "Private Lives", and of "Sense and Sensibility" with Emma Thompson. I want to go to NY now to see him in this play!! He's very funny!! And a BRIEF mention of HP; Mr. Rose asking him (sarcastically) if he was planning on doing HP for the rest of his life! Mr Rickman, very eloquently correcting Mr. Rose about the life span of HP, and how "the books" only go for seven years, so after that, he (AR) is done (!!!!) Sooooo, does this mean we will be watching this great actor play the Potions' master for the next few years?? ;-) I hope so! And oh yes, he had some wonderful things to say about JKR; he seemed very much in awe of her "single parent" status at the time of her writing, and how she made it all come together. I wish I had known this was going to be on so I could have warned everyone (well, at least those in the northeast). Anyone else happen to see this interview? Here's to a long and happy life for Mr. Rickman . . . Anna . . . From lupinesque at yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 08:58:58 2002 From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (lupinesque) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 08:58:58 -0000 Subject: Alan Rickman interview (now with a movie rant) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Anna reported: > a BRIEF mention of HP; Mr. Rose asking him (sarcastically) if he > was planning on doing HP for the rest of his life! Mr Rickman, very > eloquently correcting Mr. Rose about the life span of HP, and > how "the books" only go for seven years, so after that, he (AR) is > done (!!!!) > Sooooo, does this mean we will be watching this great actor play the > Potions' master for the next few years?? ;-) I hope so! I hate to say anything approving of Charlie Rose, on principle, but his math might be better than AR's. They haven't begun to shoot movie #3 yet. Let's try a sample schedule: film PS: done (2001) film CS: done (2002) film PA: on schedule to be completed late 2003 film GF (1 movie or 2?): completed early 2005? film OP: mid-2006? At current rate of 2 1/2-3 years per novel, book #6 also completed mid-late 2006?, just in time for screenwriter to grab it and turn it into a screenplay so they can start shooting. film #6: 2007? Ditto on book 7--novel completed early 2009?. HPfGUers finish book 24 hours later, finish discussing it 3 weeks later, go into mass- suicidal tailspin and are saved only by the fact that there isn't enough cyanide in the world to do all 47 million of them in. Besides, they have to hang on long enough to see film #7: early 2010. Alan Rickman a mere 66 years old. However, prematurely aged by having been sent Texas memorabilia in the mail weekly for ten years despite numerous restraining orders, he totters to the mailbox on the day of the premiere, and finds a Lucite-encased Skrewt Spawn with attached love note from a Ms. Amanda Geist, who has enclosed a copy of her divorce decree and a proposal of marriage. He collapses and spends the rest of his days in a very nice ward of St. Mungo's, tragically robbing the English-speaking world of a fine stage and screen actor, but entertaining his fellow residents with long fervent speeches about Deflating Draughts. Amy Z noticing that since Rupert Grint just turned 14 and should therefore be heading to his fourth year at Hogwarts in a few months, they are already two years behind schedule, but if his Culkinization proceeds apace as it appears to be doing, it might be best for them to get a new Ron shortly anyway P.S. Joywitch, I hope it's okay that I borrowed your Curmudgeon costume--will have it back to you freshly cleaned by tomorrow. From john at queerasjohn.com Wed Aug 28 13:06:56 2002 From: john at queerasjohn.com (Queer as John) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:06:56 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Alan Rickman interview In-Reply-To: Message-ID: dradamsapple said: > They showed clips of the play he's doing > in NY, "Private Lives", and of "Sense and Sensibility" with Emma > Thompson. I want to go to NY now to see him in this play!! He's > very funny!! Yes, yes he is. Amanda, Sheryll and I went to see Private Lives (their second time, my first) last night and it was truly magnificent. I don't think I've ever seen a comedy which was so well executed, even with the minor corpsing by Emma Fielding during a semi-fight scene. And, in addition, all the cast signed autographs after the performance. We hung around the stage door for an hour or so and got to actually meet Alan Rickman, Lindsay Duncan, Emma Fielding and Adam Godley. Amanda and Sheryll had previously given AR goodie bags from Texas and Canada, and had sent little explanatory notes (including the text of "I am the very model of an anti-hero archetype", a filk by our very own Marina!). So, when he came out, they explained that I'd "been putting up with" them for a week, and he said, "well done!". Ah-hem. Oh, yes, and I have a signed Playbill and FictionAlley messenger bag now. Great memories of an amazing performance! I'd encourage anyone who is in the NY area and who has not yet seen Private Lives to go see it -- it's AMAZING. --John, with Sheryll and Amanda looking over his shoulder _________________________________________________ Queer as John || john at queerasjohn.com LJ @ www.queerasjohn.com YM @ queerasjohn "There's nowt as queer as folk." --English proverb _________________________________________________ From ameliagoldfeesh at yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 13:34:26 2002 From: ameliagoldfeesh at yahoo.com (ameliagoldfeesh) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:34:26 -0000 Subject: Yahoo Groups, the Skrewt Story, New US Quarters Message-ID: I have a question about hosting a Yahoo Group. A while back I was asked to start a Stewart Granger one (since I have the only Stewart Granger website I know of). My question is basically- what is involved in having one? Yahoo doesn't seem to give much information on that. I'm considering starting one but know I'm a basically a lazy person. I have an ironical addition to Amanda's horrifying skrewt spawn slaying. It was a couple days after I read her post, I was at work (overnight stocking in Kmart), and thinking of her tale and how glad I was that Iowa didn't have any bugs near that creepy and icky. I felt a tickle on my cheek and figuring it was some hair escaped from my ponytail, I brushed my cheek off--and discovered I had a spider with the legspan of a half dollar just in front of my ear! I must say I was paranoid the rest of the night. Finally, on the quarter topic- so far I love all the designs that have been chosen by the states/US Mint people. However, my state just sent in the 5 final choices and I am so afraid the Mint will choose the most banal, least artistic of the 5. I know I don't want to see Iowa's having a soybean, cornstalk, steer, and pig on it. I'm hoping for one of the three Grant Wood inspired ones- but am not holding my breath. A bit of information those who might not be from the US- each state is being represented on the "tails" of the quarter. The new quarters are coming out over the space of ten years, each state in the order it joined the Union. A Goldfeesh (who would *Love* to have "American Gothic" on the quarter but is a bit more realistic.) Granger (http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Studio/1026/) A state quarters link (http://chezjacq.com/Quarters.htm) From lupinesque at yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 16:19:25 2002 From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (lupinesque) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 16:19:25 -0000 Subject: New US Quarters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Amelia wrote: > Finally, on the quarter topic- so far I love all the designs that > have been chosen by the states/US Mint people. However, my state just > sent in the 5 final choices and I am so afraid the Mint will choose > the most banal, least artistic of the 5. I know I don't want to see > Iowa's having a soybean, cornstalk, steer, and pig on it. I'm hoping > for one of the three Grant Wood inspired ones- but am not holding my > breath. > A bit of information those who might not be from the US- each > state is being represented on the "tails" of the quarter. The new > quarters are coming out over the space of ten years, each state in > the order it joined the Union. Really, you'd see "American Gothic" as a compliment? I always thought it was a rather satirical look at the heartland. I love stuff like this, as it is such a gold mine of history, geography, and trivia, and I watch eagerly for each design. So far, my completely unbiased opinion is that Louisiana's design is the worst (Too busy! It looks like it was designed by committee, with three things that don't fit together into any cohesive design--the Louisiana purchase, the pelican, and especially tacked-on-looking, the trumpet), and Connecticut's is the most beautiful (the Charter Oak). And Ohio's is Most Specifically Designed to Tick Off Another State--"move over, North Carolina, *we* invented flight." Amy Z From bray.262 at osu.edu Wed Aug 28 13:47:00 2002 From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:47:00 +0000 (EST5EDT) Subject: a fun buy... Message-ID: <136FEC7C8A@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu> Since we were talking about Schoolhouse Rocks a couple months ago, I just wanted to tell you all that I bought the 30th Anniversary (merciful Zeus...I'm old!) DVD last night. It's adorable. And very nicely set up. It's got all 46 of the "lessons", the words, a short on when they won their Emmys, some cute games (unscramble the lyrics, etc), and a couple animation specials. It also has the Nike commercial that used the "3 Is A Magic Number" song. It's well worth it if you grew up with Schoolhouse Rocks. Rachel Bray The Ohio State University Fees & Deposits We're knights of the Round Table, we dance whene'er we're able. We do routines and chorus scenes with footwork impec-cable, We dine well here in Camelot, we eat ham and jam and Spam a lot. / We're knights of the Round Table, our shows are for-mi-dable. But many times we're given rhymes that are quite un-sing-able, We're opera mad in Camelot, we sing from the diaphragm a lot. / In war we're tough and able, Quite in-de-fa- ti-gable. Between our quests we sequin vests and impersonate Clark Gable / It's a busy life in Camelot From christinekwokyansin at yahoo.ca Wed Aug 28 18:13:23 2002 From: christinekwokyansin at yahoo.ca (christinekwokyansin) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 18:13:23 -0000 Subject: Hi Guys, I just want to inform u that a new HP Fanfics group had just started! Message-ID: Hi,I had just started a group called "hpbestfanfic" PLEASE VISIT HPBESTFANFIC OFTEN!!!! HPBESTFANFIC ADDRESS IS : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hpbestfanfic From dradamsapple at yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 21:40:13 2002 From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 21:40:13 -0000 Subject: a fun buy... In-Reply-To: <136FEC7C8A@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Rachel Bray wrote: > Since we were talking about Schoolhouse Rocks a couple > months ago, I just wanted to tell you all that I bought the > 30th Anniversary (merciful Zeus...I'm old!) DVD last night. > It's adorable. And very nicely set up. It's got all 46 of > the "lessons", the words, a short on when they won their > Emmys, some cute games (unscramble the lyrics, etc), and a > couple animation specials. It also has the Nike commercial > that used the "3 Is A Magic Number" song. > > It's well worth it if you grew up with Schoolhouse Rocks. > > Rachel Bray > The Ohio State University > Fees & Deposits > > Rachel, I know I wasn't in the original converstation about "schoolhouse rock", but I too remember watching them (yes, I'm old too). Actually, my son's teacher played his class a tape last year (when he was in 5th grade) of some of the songs. He said the class thought they were "weird". I got all excited and told him that *I* used to look forward to these on saturday morning during cartoons, and then he said *I* was weird. Oh, well. Anyhow, the whole point of this rant to ask you, Rachel, where did you purchase the DVD? I actually heard a commercial for it this past weekend on the radio, but didn't catch where it could be purchased. I'd love to get it for my other two budding scholars. Let me know. Anna . . . "Lolly, Lolly, Lolly, get your adverbs here . . ." From hpfgumoderator at hotmail.com Wed Aug 28 21:42:27 2002 From: hpfgumoderator at hotmail.com (hpfgumoderator) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 21:42:27 -0000 Subject: ADMIN: An Official-Looking Notice About OTChatter Message-ID: *picks up large Rock and Official-Looking Email Address* Folks, a quick reminder that all the rules of HPFGU must be followed on OTChatter. This includes the "no announcements" rule -- we have a separate list for that. Read the Humongous Bigfile at http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/admin and email the mods with any questions at mods at hpfgu.org.uk. Magically yours, --Queer As John, for the HPFGU Magical Moderator Team From jenP_97 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 22:46:29 2002 From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (jenP_97) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 22:46:29 -0000 Subject: a fun buy... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "dradamsapple" wrote: > Anyhow, the whole point of this rant to ask you, Rachel, where did > you purchase the DVD? I actually heard a commercial for it this past > weekend on the radio, but didn't catch where it could be purchased. > I'd love to get it for my other two budding scholars. > Let me know. > > Anna . . . > > "Lolly, Lolly, Lolly, get your adverbs here . . ." I'm not *that* old (although my 3-year-old thinks I'm ancient... 'course, she thinks 12 is all grown up), but I remember them fondly, too. I'm pretty sure I saw that you can get them at amazon.com - in fact, I'm also pretty sure I put them on my wish list, so they MUST be available there. JenP, who likes "Three is a Magic Number" best, especially when her family *was* only 3... it made me cry while I was pregnant... From rvotaw at i-55.com Wed Aug 28 22:58:56 2002 From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 17:58:56 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Alan Rickman interview References: Message-ID: <004201c24ee6$7d81d320$a9a2cdd1@istu757> > dradamsapple said: > > > They showed clips of the play he's doing > > in NY, "Private Lives", and of "Sense and Sensibility" with Emma > > Thompson. I want to go to NY now to see him in this play!! He's > > very funny!! Oh, I must throw this in here. Before Harry Potter SS/PS movie came out, I had seen Sense and Sensibility at least seven or eight times. I have the tape and watch it often. However, I did *not* recognize Snape Alan Rickman as Colonel Brandon Alan Rickman! I couple of weeks ago I happened to glance over at my video shelf and saw Alan Rickman's name on my Sense and Sensibility tape. Of course I had no clue who he was on there, as I couldn't remember anyone "Snapeish." I stuck it in the VCR and was shocked to find him charming and debonair to the uttermost. A truly brilliant actor! Richelle From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk Wed Aug 28 23:02:49 2002 From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 00:02:49 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Alan Rickman interview References: <004201c24ee6$7d81d320$a9a2cdd1@istu757> Message-ID: <3D6D5699.000004.99569@monica> Oh, I must throw this in here. Before Harry Potter SS/PS movie came out, I had seen Sense and Sensibility at least seven or eight times. I have the tape and watch it often. However, I did *not* recognize Snape Alan Rickman as Colonel Brandon Alan Rickman! I couple of weeks ago I happened to glance over at my video shelf and saw Alan Rickman's name on my Sense and Sensibility tape. Of course I had no clue who he was on there, as I couldn't remember anyone "Snapeish." I stuck it in the VCR and was shocked to find him charming and debonair to the uttermost. A truly brilliant actor! Richelle I think it's the hair. I didn't realise it was him the first time I saw it. The hair is so un-Alan Rickman like that it throws you somewhat. Plus he's not the bad guy obviously, but then technically he's not in HP either. I think it's more his appearance than the role for me. K From dradamsapple at yahoo.com Thu Aug 29 01:45:20 2002 From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 01:45:20 -0000 Subject: Alan Rickman interview (now with a movie rant) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "lupinesque" wrote: > Anna reported: > > > a BRIEF mention of HP; Mr. Rose asking him (sarcastically) if he > > was planning on doing HP for the rest of his life! Mr Rickman, > very > > eloquently correcting Mr. Rose about the life span of HP, and > > how "the books" only go for seven years, so after that, he (AR) is > > done (!!!!) > > Sooooo, does this mean we will be watching this great actor play > the > > Potions' master for the next few years?? ;-) I hope so! > > I hate to say anything approving of Charlie Rose, on principle, but > his math might be better than AR's. They haven't begun to shoot > movie #3 yet. Let's try a sample schedule: > > film PS: done (2001) > film CS: done (2002) > film PA: on schedule to be completed late 2003 > film GF (1 movie or 2?): completed early 2005? > film OP: mid-2006? > > At current rate of 2 1/2-3 years per novel, book #6 also completed > mid-late 2006?, just in time for screenwriter to grab it and turn it > into a screenplay so they can start shooting. > > film #6: 2007? > > > > > > Amy Z > noticing that since Rupert Grint just turned 14 and should therefore > be heading to his fourth year at Hogwarts in a few months, they are > already two years behind schedule, but if his Culkinization proceeds > apace as it appears to be doing, it might be best for them to get a > new Ron shortly anyway > > P.S. Joywitch, I hope it's okay that I borrowed your Curmudgeon > costume--will have it back to you freshly cleaned by tomorrow. Ok, Curmudg, er, I mean Amy Z, I take it you are not a Ron/Rupert fan. Yes, He JUST turned 14 this past month, so, what about it? And I believe Tom Felton(aka the-one- who-shall-wear-leather-pants) turned 14 this past spring (March maybe??); and I think Emmma Watson is only 12. So does that mean that all of the child actors are not "character-age" appropriate?? Not to mention the actor who is playing Tom Riddle (his name escapes my gray matter at the moment, although I believe it's Christian Coulson). I think that he is actually in his mid-twenties in RL, and is playing a sixteen year old. I know that Dan Radcliffe's voice- change made national headlines, but frankly, I thought he was much more noticable than Rupert Grint or Tom Felton for that matter, and the latter two being older than DR. I guess my point is that yes, these kids, if they continue playing the roles that have started their careers (for most of them), will probably eventually reach a point where they are older than their screen alter-egos. But as long as I don't see Harry with a five-o- clock shadow, and Hermione *BUSTING* out of her uniform, I think I can live with a few years difference between actors ages vs. characters ages. I mean, this *is* just fantasy after all, isn't it?? ***runs and ducks under her desk for fear of being in the way of a banishing curse*** Anna . . . From southernscotland at yahoo.com Thu Aug 29 02:43:05 2002 From: southernscotland at yahoo.com (\lila phillips) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 19:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: book/movie rant In-Reply-To: <1030587894.654.31407.m12@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: <20020829024305.66051.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> Oh, you are funny! Book 7 coming out just before the Movie 7 starts... I have this sudden vision of JKR hard at work on a typewriter on a movie set. All the actors are looking over her shoulder, breathless, waiting on the next scene... Who lives? who dies? Only she knows... I can live with the child actors - love them all. I can manage with different directors - fine. I can take them holding the third movie back a year - not great, but I'm all right. What I NEED is the darn BOOK! lilahp (who wonders this, also: If we were to lock Yoda and Dumbledore up in a room alone to talk, who would go crazy first?) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From rvotaw at i-55.com Thu Aug 29 03:12:08 2002 From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 22:12:08 -0500 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Alan Rickman interview (now with a movie rant) References: Message-ID: <003d01c24f09$dcf15a60$5ca3cdd1@istu757> Anna writes: > Ok, Curmudg, er, I mean Amy Z, > > I take it you are not a Ron/Rupert fan. Yes, He JUST turned 14 this > past month, so, what about it? And I believe Tom Felton(aka the-one- > who-shall-wear-leather-pants) turned 14 this past spring (March > maybe??); Actually, Tom Felton will be 15 next month. Which means he'll be 16 by the time they finish filming PoA. > and I think Emmma Watson is only 12. So does that mean Correct. She'll be 13 in April. > that all of the child actors are not "character-age" appropriate?? > Not to mention the actor who is playing Tom Riddle (his name escapes > my gray matter at the moment, although I believe it's Christian > Coulson). I think that he is actually in his mid-twenties in RL, and > is playing a sixteen year old. Yes, it's Christian Coulson. He's 23, will be 24 in October. > I guess my point is that yes, these kids, if they continue playing > the roles that have started their careers (for most of them), will > probably eventually reach a point where they are older than their > screen alter-egos. But as long as I don't see Harry with a five-o- > clock shadow, and Hermione *BUSTING* out of her uniform, I think I > can live with a few years difference between actors ages vs. > characters ages. > I mean, this *is* just fantasy after all, isn't it?? Amen. If Harry shaves often and Hermione wears a loose robe, what's the problem? I mean, by the time PoA is completed we will have: Daniel Radcliffe age 13/14 playing 13 year old Harry, okay, so that's about right. Emma Watson age 12/13 playing 13 year old Hermione, just right there. Rupert Grint age 14/15 playing 13 year old Ron, close enough for me. Tom Felton age 15/16 playing 13 year old Draco, and who's to notice? Richard Harris age 72/73 playing 150 year old Dumbledore--oh sorry, getting carried away. Anybody know how old Bonnie Wright is??? Richelle From dradamsapple at yahoo.com Thu Aug 29 04:12:30 2002 From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 04:12:30 -0000 Subject: Alan Rickman interview (now with a movie rant) In-Reply-To: <003d01c24f09$dcf15a60$5ca3cdd1@istu757> Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Richelle Votaw" wrote: > > Amen. If Harry shaves often and Hermione wears a loose robe, what's the > problem? I mean, by the time PoA is completed we will have: > > Daniel Radcliffe age 13/14 playing 13 year old Harry, . . . > Emma Watson age 12/13 playing 13 year old Hermione, . . . > Rupert Grint age 14/15 playing 13 year old Ron, . . . > Tom Felton age 15/16 playing 13 year old Draco, and who's to notice? > Richard Harris age 72/73 playing 150 year old Dumbledore--oh sorry, getting > carried away. > > Anybody know how old Bonnie Wright is??? > > Richelle Richelle, You make me laugh!! :+} Anna . . . From fluxed at earthlink.net Thu Aug 29 07:50:40 2002 From: fluxed at earthlink.net (A. Vulgarweed) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 02:50:40 -0500 Subject: State Quarters In-Reply-To: <1030587894.654.31407.m12@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: Amy Z: And Ohio's is Most Specifically Designed to Tick Off Another >State--"move over, North Carolina, *we* invented flight." > I'd say it's neck and neck with my home state's *very-early*-17th-century sailing ships and its prominently-featured 1608 settlement date, a good thumbing of the nose to those gate-crashers in Massachusetts. :) AV From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk Thu Aug 29 07:46:15 2002 From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (macloudt) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 07:46:15 -0000 Subject: a fun buy... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Anna . . . > > "Lolly, Lolly, Lolly, get your adverbs here . . ." "Father, son, and Lolly selling adverbs here..." Another Oldie who watched waaaaaayyy too many Saturday morning cartoons! I'm living in England now so I'm sure I won't be able to get a video copy of Schoolhouse Rock which will be compatible with my VCR :::::grumbles::::: So I wanted to ask if there's a website where I can view some of these classics online. Does anyone know of any? Cheers, Mary Ann (whose favourite clip was "Mother Necessity" though it took me several years to figure out what exactly it was about) From heidit at netbox.com Thu Aug 29 10:31:02 2002 From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 06:31:02 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: State Quarters Message-ID: A note from my mum on this thread - she's on the citizens' commemorative coin committee and just got some new quarter and dollar designs: I suggest that she send her comment to CCCAConline at the US mint..someone willread it.. also, she can go to the Mint's Webpage and send them a note. The CCCAC reviews all quarter designs and we are NOT in love with those that look like a page from a kid's stamp book.... **** Me again: I think the url is usmint.gov but might be wrong... Hope this helps! -----Original Message----- From: "A. Vulgarweed" Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 02:50:40 To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: State Quarters Real-To: "A. Vulgarweed" Amy Z: And Ohio's is Most Specifically Designed to Tick Off Another >State--"move over, North Carolina, *we* invented flight." > I'd say it's neck and neck with my home state's *very-early*-17th-century sailing ships and its prominently-featured 1608 settlement date, a good thumbing of the nose to those gate-crashers in Massachusetts. :) AV ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________ Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/ Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying! Is your message... An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements. Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie. Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups. None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter. Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com ____________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From lupinesque at yahoo.com Thu Aug 29 11:30:00 2002 From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (lupinesque) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:30:00 -0000 Subject: Alan Rickman interview (now with a movie rant) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Anna wrote: > I take it you are not a Ron/Rupert fan. Yes, He JUST turned 14 this > past month, so, what about it? And I believe Tom Felton(aka the- one- > who-shall-wear-leather-pants) turned 14 this past spring (March > maybe??); and I think Emmma Watson is only 12. So does that mean > that all of the child actors are not "character-age" appropriate?? Nah, I'm with you, actually--I think the movies should be more mellow about this (though the 30-year-old teenagers in '60s B-movies always make me laugh . . . couldn't they find anyone maybe 10 years closer to the right age?). But the *moviemakers* have said that they want to keep these actors, and also that they want them to be close to their screen ages, and so they feel pressure to make a movie a year, or as close to it as you can get with a lots-of-FX, blockbuster movie. I think they're going to have trouble, especially with the actors who started out a little older than their roles. BTW, everyone has yet to explain to me why the voice change was a big deal. Daniel Radcliffe's voice changed sometime during Harry's second year. So? Presumably, so did Harry's. Why is it such a scandal that we hear it happening? On Ron/Rupert: I was a fan in the first movie; the trailer has me worried that he's been encouraged to focus on the comic "bits" instead of letting the comedy flow out of the character and dialogue. Ron is a very funny character, and Rupert Grint has good comic timing; those two things are enough to guarantee that it will be funny. He doesn't need to pull absurd faces. Amy who should be saying all this on -Movie but is scared that if she goes in there she'll be trampled by rampaging Sean Biggerstaff fans From lupinesque at yahoo.com Thu Aug 29 11:36:13 2002 From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (lupinesque) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:36:13 -0000 Subject: State Quarters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A Vulgarweed wrote: > I'd say it's neck and neck with my home state's *very-early*-17th- century > sailing ships and its prominently-featured 1608 settlement date, a good > thumbing of the nose to those gate-crashers in Massachusetts. :) That one's a beaut! And you're entitled to the 1608. I notice Massachusetts didn't even try to claim first-Europeans status, and cut right to 1776, where no one can dispute its importance. My state's design is pretty contemporary. True, Camel's Hump, the mountain featured in the background, has been around since the glaciers left, and people have been tapping trees for hundreds of years, but that jacket he's wearing looks distinctly like Gore- Tex. ;-) Amy From drednort at alphalink.com.au Thu Aug 29 11:39:42 2002 From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 21:39:42 +1000 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Alan Rickman interview (now with a movie rant) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3D6E949E.6342.D2D73E@localhost> On 29 Aug 2002 at 11:30, lupinesque wrote: > BTW, everyone has yet to explain to me why the voice change was a big > deal. Daniel Radcliffe's voice changed sometime during Harry's > second year. So? Presumably, so did Harry's. Why is it such a > scandal that we hear it happening? Well, the point that immediately leaps to mind is continuity - bear in mind that films are rarely filmed in the order the scenes will be shown - Harry's voice changing may not be a big deal - but if all the first half of the film has 'mature-voice' Harry and all the second half has 'squeaky-voice' Harry, that might present some problems depending on how drastic the difference is - a few scenes out of order, might not be a problem (after all, fluctuation occurs in real life) - but depending on the circumstances, it could seem ridiculous. Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html (ISTJ) |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 "You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil | Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia From rvotaw at i-55.com Thu Aug 29 12:16:53 2002 From: rvotaw at i-55.com (rvotaw at i-55.com) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 07:16:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Alan Rickman interview (now with a movie rant) Message-ID: <3214713.1030623413096.JavaMail.root@webmail.i-55.com> Amy writes: > BTW, everyone has yet to explain to me why the voice change was a big > deal. Daniel Radcliffe's voice changed sometime during Harry's > second year. So? Presumably, so did Harry's. Why is it such a > scandal that we hear it happening? Actually, during Harry's first year his voice changed. And I say just because JKR didn't write it into the book doesn't mean it didn't happen, right? :) Daniel's voice did change a bit early, not surprising with just a tad added stress. I don't find it all that noticable. Actually, I didn't notice it at all the first dozen times I watched the movie. When you start to watch specific scenes and bounce around a bit it's much more noticable. Really only in the second Fluffy scene (going after the stone) and after can I tell at all. > On Ron/Rupert: I was a fan in the first movie; the trailer has me > worried that he's been encouraged to focus on the comic "bits" > instead of letting the comedy flow out of the character and > dialogue. Ron is a very funny character, and Rupert Grint has good > comic timing; those two things are enough to guarantee that it will > be funny. He doesn't need to pull absurd faces. But he has such adorable expressions. I find Rupert and Daniel such a good contrast, both have such cute facial expressions. But Rupert's is generally with his mouth/nose and Daniel with his eyes/eyebrows. > who should be saying all this on -Movie but is scared that if she > goes in there she'll be trampled by rampaging Sean Biggerstaff fans Well he is a cutie, now isn't he?!?! Though my mom thinks he looks a bit retarded, so I guess it's a matter of taste. Richelle ---------- Anna wrote: > I take it you are not a Ron/Rupert fan. Yes, He JUST turned 14 this > past month, so, what about it? And I believe Tom Felton(aka the- one- > who-shall-wear-leather-pants) turned 14 this past spring (March > maybe??); and I think Emmma Watson is only 12. So does that mean > that all of the child actors are not "character-age" appropriate?? Nah, I'm with you, actually--I think the movies should be more mellow about this (though the 30-year-old teenagers in '60s B-movies always make me laugh . . . couldn't they find anyone maybe 10 years closer to the right age?). But the *moviemakers* have said that they want to keep these actors, and also that they want them to be close to their screen ages, and so they feel pressure to make a movie a year, or as close to it as you can get with a lots-of-FX, blockbuster movie. I think they're going to have trouble, especially with the actors who started out a little older than their roles. BTW, everyone has yet to explain to me why the voice change was a big deal. Daniel Radcliffe's voice changed sometime during Harry's second year. So? Presumably, so did Harry's. Why is it such a scandal that we hear it happening? On Ron/Rupert: I was a fan in the first movie; the trailer has me worried that he's been encouraged to focus on the comic "bits" instead of letting the comedy flow out of the character and dialogue. Ron is a very funny character, and Rupert Grint has good comic timing; those two things are enough to guarantee that it will be funny. He doesn't need to pull absurd faces. Amy who should be saying all this on -Movie but is scared that if she goes in there she'll be trampled by rampaging Sean Biggerstaff fans ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________ Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/ Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying! Is your message... An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements. Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie. Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups. None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter. Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com ____________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From heidit at netbox.com Thu Aug 29 12:55:54 2002 From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:55:54 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Alan Rickman interview (now with a movie rant) Message-ID: But the whole problem was that it broke last fall between the filming end of ps/ss and the start for cos - so it wouldn't factor into the scenes at all. Anyhow, that's why they have audio effects and dubbing. No, from the articles last spring it seemed that the problem was that Daniel's voice had broken but as there was no discussion in the books as to when Harry's had, clearly it must not have happened yet and thus a deeper-voiced Dan as 12 year old harry would be quite unbelievable. Or something like that. Heidi Tandy Follow me to FictionAlley - Harry Potter fanfics of all shapes, sizes and ships - 7 sickles an ounce http://www.FictionAlley.org -----Original Message----- From: "Shaun Hately" Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 21:39:42 To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Alan Rickman interview (now with a movie rant) Real-To: "Shaun Hately" On 29 Aug 2002 at 11:30, lupinesque wrote: > BTW, everyone has yet to explain to me why the voice change was a big > deal. Daniel Radcliffe's voice changed sometime during Harry's > second year. So? Presumably, so did Harry's. Why is it such a > scandal that we hear it happening? Well, the point that immediately leaps to mind is continuity - bear in mind that films are rarely filmed in the order the scenes will be shown - Harry's voice changing may not be a big deal - but if all the first half of the film has 'mature-voice' Harry and all the second half has 'squeaky-voice' Harry, that might present some problems depending on how drastic the difference is - a few scenes out of order, might not be a problem (after all, fluctuation occurs in real life) - but depending on the circumstances, it could seem ridiculous. Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html (ISTJ) |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 "You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil | Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________ Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/ Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying! Is your message... An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements. Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie. Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups. None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter. Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com ____________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From rvotaw at i-55.com Thu Aug 29 14:52:25 2002 From: rvotaw at i-55.com (rvotaw at i-55.com) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 09:52:25 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Alan Rickman interview (now with a movie rant) Message-ID: <8724198.1030632745297.JavaMail.root@webmail.i-55.com> Heidi Tandy writes: > But the whole problem was that it broke last fall between the filming end of ps/ss and the start for cos - so it wouldn't factor into the scenes at all. His voice did break mid production of PS/SS. You can tell. > Anyhow, that's why they have audio effects and dubbing. No, from the articles last spring it seemed that the problem was that Daniel's voice had broken but as there was no discussion in the books as to when Harry's had, clearly it must not have happened yet and thus a deeper-voiced Dan as 12 year old harry would be quite unbelievable. Or something like that. Not necessarily. Either JKR has just skipped Harry's voice change in the midst of all the other problems he's had, or Harry's a really really late developer, seeing as it's not been figured into a *book* and he's nearly 15. I don't think just because there's no discussion of Harry's voice change in the books doesn't mean it didn't change. It's just not vital in the scope of things. Richelle ---------- But the whole problem was that it broke last fall between the filming end of ps/ss and the start for cos - so it wouldn't factor into the scenes at all. Anyhow, that's why they have audio effects and dubbing. No, from the articles last spring it seemed that the problem was that Daniel's voice had broken but as there was no discussion in the books as to when Harry's had, clearly it must not have happened yet and thus a deeper-voiced Dan as 12 year old harry would be quite unbelievable. Or something like that. Heidi Tandy Follow me to FictionAlley - Harry Potter fanfics of all shapes, sizes and ships - 7 sickles an ounce http://www.FictionAlley.org -----Original Message----- From: "Shaun Hately" Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 21:39:42 To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Alan Rickman interview (now with a movie rant) Real-To: "Shaun Hately" On 29 Aug 2002 at 11:30, lupinesque wrote: > BTW, everyone has yet to explain to me why the voice change was a big > deal. Daniel Radcliffe's voice changed sometime during Harry's > second year. So? Presumably, so did Harry's. Why is it such a > scandal that we hear it happening? Well, the point that immediately leaps to mind is continuity - bear in mind that films are rarely filmed in the order the scenes will be shown - Harry's voice changing may not be a big deal - but if all the first half of the film has 'mature-voice' Harry and all the second half has 'squeaky-voice' Harry, that might present some problems depending on how drastic the difference is - a few scenes out of order, might not be a problem (after all, fluctuation occurs in real life) - but depending on the circumstances, it could seem ridiculous. Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html (ISTJ) |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 "You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil | Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________ Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/ Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying! Is your message... An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements. Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie. Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups. None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter. Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com ____________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________ Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/ Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying! Is your message... An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements. Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie. Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups. None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter. Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com ____________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bray.262 at osu.edu Thu Aug 29 11:17:53 2002 From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:17:53 +0000 (EST5EDT) Subject: Harry Potter at The Who concert last night Message-ID: <28F4737529@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu> Well, chalk up another celebrity fan of the Harry Potter series. Before they launched into a 20 minute set of "Tommy" songs, Pete Townshend said something about it being a sad story about a boy with a not so good ending. Then he said something about not all stories have bad endings yadda, yadda, yadda. "Take, for example, the story of a boy locked in a cupboard under the stairs by his family only later to discover he's actually a big time hero." I was tickled. :-) Oh...and yes, during "Pinball Wizard" my friends and I all had a giggle and sang Quidditch Ball Wizard at least once. Rachel Bray The Ohio State University Fees & Deposits We're knights of the Round Table, we dance whene'er we're able. We do routines and chorus scenes with footwork impec-cable, We dine well here in Camelot, we eat ham and jam and Spam a lot. / We're knights of the Round Table, our shows are for-mi-dable. But many times we're given rhymes that are quite un-sing-able, We're opera mad in Camelot, we sing from the diaphragm a lot. / In war we're tough and able, Quite in-de-fa- ti-gable. Between our quests we sequin vests and impersonate Clark Gable / It's a busy life in Camelot From lupinesque at yahoo.com Thu Aug 29 17:42:05 2002 From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (lupinesque) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 17:42:05 -0000 Subject: changing voices, skin cream In-Reply-To: <3D6E949E.6342.D2D73E@localhost> Message-ID: Shaun explained: > Well, the point that immediately leaps to mind is continuity - bear in mind that films > are rarely filmed in the order the scenes will be shown - Harry's voice changing may > not be a big deal - but if all the first half of the film has 'mature-voice' Harry and all > the second half has 'squeaky-voice' Harry, that might present some problems > depending on how drastic the difference is - a few scenes out of order, might not be > a problem (after all, fluctuation occurs in real life) - but depending on the > circumstances, it could seem ridiculous. Ah, thank you! That does make sense. I guess I've never paid enough attention to adolescent boys' voices to notice how much they fluctuate, but yeah, I can see how too much fluctuation would be a bit weird. Switching to a totally different women-to-men question: Are there any men out there who feel the need for face cream? I don't know any men who use it, and of course the overblown marketing is all aimed at women who want to look young forever etc. etc., but marketing aside, when I wash my face it then feels dry and stretched out until I've put some kind of moisturizer on. I don't even use soap on my face, just a "beauty bar" (whatever is in THAT), yet a follow-up of face cream is a matter of comfort. So do men just not have this experience, or does your skin also feel too small for your face and you just wait it out 'til it returns to normal? Thanks in advance--I've been wondering this for months. Amy From bray.262 at osu.edu Thu Aug 29 13:49:33 2002 From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:49:33 +0000 (EST5EDT) Subject: Schoolhouse Rock/where to buy it/website Message-ID: <2B7B715CD5@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu> Here's the website: http://www.school-house-rock.com/?source=overture Unfortunately, it's changed quite a bit in the last year. They used to have the videos on the site so you could download the audio. But now it's just clips of the audio with the lyrics. Sad. And I bought my DVD at Target. It was $16.00. I think Walmart has it, too. So when you're happy (Hurray!) or sad (Aw!) Or frigntened (Eeek!") or mad ("Rats!") Or excited (Wow!) or glad (Hey!) An interjection starts a sentence right. Rachel Bray The Ohio State University Fees & Deposits We're knights of the Round Table, we dance whene'er we're able. We do routines and chorus scenes with footwork impec-cable, We dine well here in Camelot, we eat ham and jam and Spam a lot. / We're knights of the Round Table, our shows are for-mi-dable. But many times we're given rhymes that are quite un-sing-able, We're opera mad in Camelot, we sing from the diaphragm a lot. / In war we're tough and able, Quite in-de-fa- ti-gable. Between our quests we sequin vests and impersonate Clark Gable / It's a busy life in Camelot From jenP_97 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 29 18:28:54 2002 From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (jenP_97) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:28:54 -0000 Subject: Men and skin cream In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Amy asked if there were any men out there who felt the need for skin cream... Well, I'm not a man (there are times when I'm extremely thankful on this point, but as a nursing mom 5 weeks after childbirth with a very large sleep debt, I'm not sure this is one of those times...), but I do have one living in my house. I also am not a fanatical face-washer... but I do experience tightness/ dryness after doing so. So does Chris. And you know what? He bitched about it (excuse me) for about 3 years before I finally said, "So use my moisturizer, for goodness sakes!" Know what? He did... and he LOVED it. So now he and I share the same bottle of Olay "Complete" for sensitive skin (no perfumes, so he doesn't feel "girly"), and I think he would freely admit to using it about 2x as much as I do (as I have oily skin and he has dry). He uses it so much I made HIM buy a replacement bottle when we ran out the last time, and we got into a lengthy discussion about which brand feels better - we'd been using the cheaper Suave moisturizer, but he felt it was too greasy feeling, and wanted to spend more on the Olay. Interesting, eh? JenP, married to a moisturized (and UV- protected!) man From lupinesque at yahoo.com Thu Aug 29 19:55:00 2002 From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (lupinesque) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 19:55:00 -0000 Subject: Men and skin cream In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jen wrote: > Well, I'm not a man (there are times when I'm > extremely thankful on this point, but as a > nursing mom 5 weeks after childbirth with a > very large sleep debt, I'm not sure this is > one of those times...), but I do have one > living in my house. I also am not a fanatical > face-washer... but I do experience tightness/ > dryness after doing so. So does Chris. This sounds like the makings of a great commercial! Well, this is how it all got started. My dh wanted to know why I use this stuff and I said "well, doesn't your face feel tight and dry after you get out of the shower?" and he said, "Uh....no." I don't know if it's an uncommon phenomenon in men, or he just has much oilier skin than I do (doubt it), or what. Resisting the temptation to set up a poll, Amy who thinks Jen is very lucky not to be a man, sleep or no sleep. Nursing a five-week-old baby . . . awwwwwwwwwwwwww! From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com Thu Aug 29 23:09:07 2002 From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora67) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 23:09:07 -0000 Subject: Men and skin cream In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "jenP_97" wrote: > Well, I'm not a man (there are times when I'm > extremely thankful on this point, but as a > nursing mom 5 weeks after childbirth with a > very large sleep debt, I'm not sure this is > one of those times...) Congratulations! I feel for you...I really do. As a mom of 4 (don't ask me how, but they just kept multiplying) children, all nursed, I understand about the sleep deprivation. But, you are woman, hear you roar!! :-D My husband gets cranky when he has to get up with someone in the night, only once (when I am busy dealing with the 3 yr old) and he cannot function the rest of the day. If you're like me, you just keep going and manage to get through the day, sometimes without a nap!! :-D You GO, girl. And you're still online, which is more than I could say at 5 weeks postpartum. Just an encouraging word. Those of you without children that I have put to sleep, you can wake up now. ;-) Alora From john at queerasjohn.com Fri Aug 30 01:57:57 2002 From: john at queerasjohn.com (Queer as John) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 21:57:57 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] skin cream In-Reply-To: Message-ID: lupinesque said: > Switching to a totally different women-to-men question: Are there > any men out there who feel the need for face cream? I don't know any > men who use it Yep. But then again, I am for some insane reason having a pubescentesque breakout of acne on my forehead, so have been paying more than usual amount of attention to it. *frowns* Clean and Clear Overnight Acne Patches are my heroes! --John _________________________________________________ Queer as John || john at queerasjohn.com LJ @ www.queerasjohn.com YM @ queerasjohn "There's nowt as queer as folk." --English proverb _________________________________________________ From lupinesque at yahoo.com Fri Aug 30 09:25:45 2002 From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (lupinesque) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:25:45 -0000 Subject: Happy Birthday from Samoa! Message-ID: Why Samoa? 'Cause it's still Dee's birthday there. Happy happy (or do I mean Harry Harry?), Dee! May your BBEFBs have lots of sour apple and no vomit. Wellwishers can wish Dee R well at gypsycaine at neo.rr.com or c/o this list. Amy TBE (Ret.) From gypsycaine at neo.rr.com Fri Aug 30 12:56:03 2002 From: gypsycaine at neo.rr.com (Dee R) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 08:56:03 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Birthday from Samoa! References: Message-ID: <008f01c25024$995626c0$1f38d118@neo.rr.com> Here I thought I had snuck by....grins. Thanks! Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: lupinesque To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 5:25 AM Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Birthday from Samoa! Why Samoa? 'Cause it's still Dee's birthday there. Happy happy (or do I mean Harry Harry?), Dee! May your BBEFBs have lots of sour apple and no vomit. Wellwishers can wish Dee R well at gypsycaine at neo.rr.com or c/o this list. Amy TBE (Ret.) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________ Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/ Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying! Is your message... An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements. Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie. Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups. None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter. Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com ____________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bray.262 at osu.edu Fri Aug 30 15:22:25 2002 From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:22:25 +0000 (EST5EDT) Subject: Have a great long weekend! Message-ID: <45083F3223@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu> Have a great (and safe) Labor Day weekend to my fellow Americans who are lucky enough to have Monday off! I'm not doing much. I'm broke. Sunbathing by the pool is free, though! Rachel Bray The Ohio State University Fees & Deposits We're knights of the Round Table, we dance whene'er we're able. We do routines and chorus scenes with footwork impec-cable, We dine well here in Camelot, we eat ham and jam and Spam a lot. / We're knights of the Round Table, our shows are for-mi-dable. But many times we're given rhymes that are quite un-sing-able, We're opera mad in Camelot, we sing from the diaphragm a lot. / In war we're tough and able, Quite in-de-fa- ti-gable. Between our quests we sequin vests and impersonate Clark Gable / It's a busy life in Camelot From john at queerasjohn.com Sat Aug 31 16:12:45 2002 From: john at queerasjohn.com (Queer as John) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 12:12:45 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Have a great long weekend! In-Reply-To: <45083F3223@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: <7C38BE80-BCFC-11D6-B44C-000393C2DB2E@queerasjohn.com> On Friday, August 30, 2002, at 11:22 AM, Rachel Bray wrote: > Have a great (and safe) Labor Day weekend to my fellow > Americans who are lucky enough to have Monday off! And to all the Brits on the list, have a delightful Bank Holiday Weekend! Cheers, --John ______________________________________ Queer as John || john at queerasjohn.com LJ @ www.queerasjohn.com Messengers: QueerAsJohn "There's nowt as queer as folk." --English proverb ______________________________________ From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk Sat Aug 31 00:16:15 2002 From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 01:16:15 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Have a great long weekend! References: <7C38BE80-BCFC-11D6-B44C-000393C2DB2E@queerasjohn.com> Message-ID: <3D700ACF.000001.00173@monica> And to all the Brits on the list, have a delightful Bank Holiday Weekend! Cheers, --John Surfaces from caffeine induced haze, blinks slightly, wasn't that last weekend? (actually tired enough right now to wonder if my mind is playing tricks on me) K From catlady at wicca.net Sat Aug 31 02:05:19 2002 From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 02:05:19 -0000 Subject: skin cream In-Reply-To: Message-ID: First I must grovel about having missed wishing Happy Anniversary to Jo Serenadust last week! --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "lupinesque" wrote: > when I wash my face it then feels dry and stretched out until I've > put some kind of moisturizer on. I DO use soap on my face, but it never feels dry and stretched out after I've washed it ... it feels sticky-gooey and weighted down Before I wash it, and it feels "normal" afterwards. I don't use moisturizer because I am far too lazy to take any care for my looks (which is quite obvious when looking at me). There is an old traditional limerick about me: As a beauty I am not a star, There are others more handsome by far, But my face, I don't mind it for I am behind it: it's the people in front whom I jar! From ruhgozler at yahoo.com Sat Aug 31 11:43:52 2002 From: ruhgozler at yahoo.com (Ruhgozler) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 11:43:52 -0000 Subject: A small package from Mrs. Weasley Message-ID: After the wonderful post about the Blast-Ended Screwt invasion I just had to share my own close encounter with the HP Universe: A couple of weeks ago my friend bought a book on-line. On August 23rd he went to the mail room and found a small package in his box. When he pulled it out he just kind of stood there in shock. The little padded envelope was covered in 91 $.03 stamps and one $.01 stamp. There was a tiny little unstamped space with the address label. But it gets even better! When we looked at the postmarks, something like 45 of them, we discovered they all said August 31st. The book arrived eight days before it was mailed! Who knew Molly Weasley was selling books on eBay? Linda From olivia at rocketbandit.com Sat Aug 31 13:14:25 2002 From: olivia at rocketbandit.com (Olivia) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 09:14:25 -0400 Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] A small package from Mrs. Weasley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c250f0$54719c20$9ca2e3d8@agstme.adelphia.net> Linda said: "A couple of weeks ago my friend bought a book on-line. On August 23rd he went to the mail room and found a small package in his box. When he pulled it out he just kind of stood there in shock. The little padded envelope was covered in 91 $.03 stamps and one $.01 stamp. There was a tiny little unstamped space with the address label. But it gets even better! When we looked at the postmarks, something like 45 of them, we discovered they all said August 31st. The book arrived eight days before it was mailed! Who knew Molly Weasley was selling books on eBay?" *Giggle* That's funny. That part in GoF was always one of my favorite funny bits of the books. Such an innocent, naive thing to do. Like Ron on the telephone or Mr. Weasley's excitement over the ekeltric things at the Dursleys. It had never occured to me that a Muggle might actually do that though. Kind of makes me want to try it as well. :) Olivia From tabouli at unite.com.au Sat Aug 31 14:56:21 2002 From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 00:56:21 +1000 Subject: Bank Holiday Message-ID: <005701c250fe$923ece20$615432d2@price> Ah! Good! At last, the opportunity to ask one of those plaguing questions you never remember at the right time... what on earth is the UK "Bank Holiday" in aid of? Something to do with banks as in money? I read about the Bank Holiday endlessly as a child in my Pony Club books (any fellow readers thereof prepared to come out of the closet?), but I never knew what it was *for*. Tabouli. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk Sat Aug 31 16:04:52 2002 From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 17:04:52 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Bank Holiday References: <005701c250fe$923ece20$615432d2@price> Message-ID: <3D70E924.000001.87771@monica> A Bank Holiday is simply the British term for a public holiday of some kind Such as New Years Day, May Day, Christmas, this one which is the August Bank Holiday, etc. they're so called (I believe) because the banks (and all council and goverment offices) shut. K -------Original Message------- From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Date: 31 August 2002 15:51:53 To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Bank Holiday Ah! Good! At last, the opportunity to ask one of those plaguing questions you never remember at the right time... what on earth is the UK "Bank Holiday" in aid of? Something to do with banks as in money? I read about the Bank Holiday endlessly as a child in my Pony Club books (any fellow readers thereof prepared to come out of the closet?), but I never knew what it was *for*. Tabouli. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________ Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/ Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying! Is your message... An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements. Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie. Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups. None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter. Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com Unsubscribing? 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