[HPFGU-OTChatter] British manners

[Wendy St. John]

Alora asked:

WHy is >it that most British children have such good manners?  Is this
>something that they just absorb from their parents, or is it
>culture, or what?  I have four children that have to listen to me
>(at various times)  harp on manners.  I'm American and I have to say
>that I think most of us don't have very good manners - that's just
>my observation.  <snip> My question is, so what do we do about it?  Do 
>Americans need etiquette lessons?  Do the British think we are all arrogant 
>ill mannered slobs? ;)


Now me:

Well, I'll put my two pence in on this subject, as it is one which is rather 
important to me. And my opinion seems to be a bit different from what others 
have already said. Before I start, I do want to say that this message is 
going to be filled with sweeping generalisations about cultural differences. 
In no way do I mean to say that *all* people from any one culture behave in 
the ways I'm describing. But there is value in describing cultural 
differences and trends, and that's what I'm doing here.

I'm an American living in Scotland (for the past two years), and I do 
perceive a difference in the way British and American children behave in 
*public*. (Which is different from the way they may behave in the privacy of 
their homes. I know some *wild* British children! <G>). Children do seem to 
be more reserved here, and a child making a fuss in a store or restaurant, 
for example, is frowned on more strongly here than it is in the States, so I 
think parents are stricter about not allowing noisy behavior while out in 
public. And those children who really just don't have the impulse control 
are kept at home, or do receive a lot of harsh looks. This isn't exactly the 
same thing as manners, but it is related, and I think there is a cultural 
expectation here for children to be seen and not heard more so than in the 
U.S.

Of course, then you can go to Italy and it's the opposite - when we visited 
Italy earlier this year, everyewhere we went people really went out of their 
way to be kind to my four-year-old son. It was obvious that, culturally, the 
Italian people really love, honour, and enjoy children. It was fabulous. I 
would say that the attitude towards children in the U.S. falls somewhere 
between what I've seen in the UK and in Italy (but, unfortunately, is closer 
to the attitude in the UK). Noisier behavior is tolerated in the US, but 
children aren't exactly *welcome* very many places. If you haven't guessed, 
I vastly prefer the attitude in Italy - where children are welcome just 
about everywhere, and smiled at and spoken to as if they were *people* 
(which of course, they are!).

As far as actual manners are concerned, I think that, from what I've seen 
personally, British kids do have better manners - but not vastly better. 
This is a HUGE generalisation, and not meant to apply across the board, but 
I think I know a higher percentage of American kids who really seem to have 
*no* manners whatsoever. I find this really disturbing, just because I 
personally feel that good manners are very important. This may sound fussy, 
but in a way, good manners are all we have to offer to the vast majority of 
people that we meet - store clerks, and strangers we stand next to in 
queues, etc. And it is so much nicer to give and recieve a smile and a 
pleasant "thank you" or "excuse me" rather than just pushing past. Does this 
make any sense? It's a way of spreading a little sunshine around wherever 
you go. Okay, I *know* that sounds really sappy, but it's the only way I can 
think to describe it. And it's also important to do this with the people you 
live with and see all the time. Saying "thank you" for cooking the dinner, 
or "please will you get me a glass of water." It's just a friendlier way of 
being, and promotes good-will between people.

So, how do you get children to be this way? Well, I don't claim to be an 
expert on rasing children! Some days I am barely getting by with my one. <G> 
But, as far as manners are concerned, I think it comes down to parental 
role-modeling. My husband and I use good manners with one another as a 
matter of course. We do say please and thank you for little things 
throughout the day. This has rubbed off on our son, aged four (as I 
mentioned above), who has really lovely manners, so much so that people 
often comment upon them. He knows to say please and thank you and excuse me, 
and does it (most of the time) without prompting from us. Not *always* by 
any means <g>. But when he *doesn't* ask nicely for something, I just ignore 
him until he remembers to say please. So if he says, "I want some juice," 
I'll just tell him, "that's interesting." Sooner or later (if he really 
wants the juice), he'll realise that he needs to say, "please will you get 
me some juice, Mummy." Of course at the start we did need to teach him how 
to do this, but now he understands what is expected of him, and he does it. 
And I think it's more than just "doing" it - I think he enjoys the response 
he gets from people when he is being polite. He gets lots of smiles and 
positive attention when, for example, he tells the server in a restaurant, 
"thank you" for bringing his food. I think he does understand (in a very 
simple way) that using good manners makes others feel good, and that, in 
turn, makes him feel good. But he wouldn't have been able to understand that 
if he'd never seen us doing it, and learned that it was expected of him, as 
well. So, this is what I've done, and it seems to have worked. (Like I said, 
I'm no expert, but this is *one* thing that I've apparently done right! 
<g>).

As for your last question as to whether the British think we're all arrogant 
ill-mannered slobs, well, it would depend on who you talk to! <G> But, 
again, I would say that *in general*!!!! there is a bit of that sort of 
feeling. Not that Americans are perceived as arrogant, perhaps. But what 
many Brits seem to feel is that Americans are *loud.* (Which, we often are. 
In comparison to the average Brit, anyway). When considering that this is a 
culture in which keeping your emotions in control is very important, being 
noisy can be seen as ill-mannered and inconsiderate. And I'm not just making 
this up based on my observations, I've had discussions with British friends 
who have told me these things. <g>

Once again, I just want to point out that the things I've said here are 
generalisations, based on cultural differences that I've experienced. And I 
also don't think that one or the other is the *right* way of being. It's 
just different. Americans can be loud and boisterous and expressive, which 
can be wonderful. Brits can be reserved and calm and controlled, which can 
be very comforting. And of course, there are reserved Americans and 
over-the-top Brits, as well. <G>

Well, I hope this message doesn't ruffle any feathers. Although, I suppose 
even if it does that's okay. I'm just sharing my opinions, and others are 
certainly entitled to disagree.

Oh, and for the woman who said she didn't like Los Angeles - well, that's 
where I grew up for the first 20 years or so of my life, and I 
whole-heartedly agree with you. It's awful. <g> And welcome to the list!

:-)
Wendy
(who is the same Wendy who usually posts under the address wynnde1 at aol.com)




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