[HPFGU-OTChatter] (unknown)

[Mieneke Pallada]

First of, let me say to each his or her own opinion and I respect these opinions, but this is so blatantly unfair, I couldn't keep quiet:

On 13-2-2002 mafaldahopkirk wrote:
'Dear group members,

I am writing in complaint of the moderator's behavior towards the many lists of HPFGU. There have been many rules and restrictions on certain topics from George W. Bush to Richard Abanes. I feel that this makes the lists lackluster because they don't have many controversial topics to discuss for the fear of being kicked off.'
 
In the four months I've been around the HPFGU-lists I have found them anything but lackluster, the topics ranged from deeply serious to quite silly (in a good way), and from awesomely philosophical to fantastical literary discussions. And (correct me I've I'm wrong here, fellow newbies) from most reactions on-list, most new list members find it to be so. 

'Let me name a few of the moderator's problems:

Penny: She doesn't listen to anyone, despite the obvious OTness of Shipping. Also runs the HPFGU list like a members only club, for that new members are not respected, despite being more active posters than any more established members.'

New list members are respected and (speaking from experience) are always welcomed. I've even seen Penny chide older list members for coming down too hard on newbies and telling them to be nice. So to say she doesn't listen and disrecpects them is quite unfair.

[snip examples]

'The said moderators were discussing on the private Mod board about including her in their List Elves until the said shipping discussion, in which Penny posted the above ADMIN message on 15 December. They completely dumped Elizabeth as an idea for List Elves because she didn't comply with Penny's views.'

If these discussions are private, how do you know this? Unless you are a Mod or a List Elf, you are not privy to these discussions, so I find this argument debatable.

'John: Shoots his mouth off at every occasion, makes his own point on posts instead of reading through the posts. Especially when the subjects are sensitive to sexuality or Wicca.'

Firstly, of course he makes his own points on posts, they're his opinions aren't they. It isn't the Mods job to read through posts, a 'normal' list member wouldn't either, so they have to keep that in mind and filter out any potential misunderstandings. Secondly, I've never know John to be unfair or really harsh, and the occassions he really reacts strongly are on topics (sexuality and religion) which are near to his heart and important to him personally. This I'm reading from his posts, I mean I don't know John personally. But wouldn't you react strongly when people raise points on things which are VERY important to you? I think you would, your post of today is a good example.

[snip example]

Still regarding the incident with Elizabeth; no she shouldn't apologise for having an opinion, but when that opinion is hurtful to someone  personally and not the Mods in general, then it is unfair to vent that opinion in public. The least Elizabeth could have done is leave the personal remarks out or to have sent them to Penny off-list.

'The management is totally opaque i.e. the list is run according to Penny's masterplan, with no apparent thought for the other 3700 odd members. All new list management is selected by old, so only people who fit their view on things are accepted. Therefore, there is a vapid
principality amongst the moderators, with no differing opinions on things. This in turn, makes the HPFGU list incredibly boring and unimaginative, no wonder why most of the people aren't speaking, for fear that even the name Mundungus Fletcher would get them kicked off.'

Who says it's Penny's masterplan and not the Mods masterplan? Of course tho old management selects the new. They know what gives, they know the investments of time and effort it takes (and believe that it takes a lot) and they know what kinds of people it takes. This is the way it works in most places. And if, as a result you find the list boring and unaccommodating, well they didn't force to become a member and they won't force you to stay one. 

'When the management discuss (in private) who to select as new elves, they base their decision on who is the most responsible and most levelheaded of the people they are considering. Yet two of the moderators, John and Penny, are anything but responsible and levelheaded.

In other words, John Walton and Penny Linsenmayer fall below the standards they themselves set for list management. They also seem to select underlings which are the least likely to disagree on the way they run things.'

Why do you attack Penny and John so vehemently? First of all there are seven Mods not just two, why do you hold Penny and John personally responsible? This is totally unfair and uncalled for.

[Snip discussion of ways to handle management and forbidden topics]

'Such as the recent discussion of Richard Abanes (in which John BROUGHT up, even when he knew that the mods had a rule of the topic banned, which the authoritarian Penny brought up). Already there are new members asking who Richard Abanes is and they should have the right to know 
who he is, so I recommend restarting the topic of Richard Abanes because he pertains to the world of the Harry Potter books. Even though he is very very against Harry Potter in general, he is indelibly linked to Harry
Potter because of his fundamentalist christian views.'

John said it was banned when he wrote it and explianed he used it as a comparison, not to start a new discussion on the topic AND he apologised for using the comparison. If new members really want to know about Abanes they can check the archives or mail the Mods or their personal List Elf off-list. It does not have to be handled on-list.

[Snip further Abanes discussion]

'The Moderators are representative of Penny's views, not the views of the nearly 4,000 strong membership. In short, John and Penny are inappropriate as moderators. Unfortunately nothing will ever change, because they have assembled a team of underlings who will only support
them and e-mails such as mine will be condemned and swept away.

Thank you,

Mafalda Hopkirk'

I am really sorry you feel this way, but once again if you are not happy in this community, you are free to leave. And I really have a problem with your personal crusade against Penny and John. They devote a lot of their time and energy to this list and our enjoyment (or in your case non-enjoyment) of it. Without them there probably even wouldn't BE a list.
You are entitled to your opinion, sure, but I think there are no list members who would agree with such vehement personal critism.

To Penny and John: Thanks for all your hard work. I'm enjoying myself tremendously round here and that is also thanks to you and the other Mods. You guys get way to little credit for that. Thanks again.

Mieneke (Who now really needs a cup of coffee!)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]