[HPFGU-OTChatter] Continued sewing of the gifted thread

[Shaun Hately]

I'll just reply to the specific questions asked of me, and I hope come back to the rest 
later.

On 4 Jun 2002 at 17:06, Tabouli wrote:

> One more musing re Shaun's comments: if research suggests gifted children's 
> social and emotional adjustment difficulties are a myth, how does that fit in with 
> your earlier comments about them being at risk and disadvantaged, putting them 
> up grades to have people on their level to talk to so they have a higher change of 
> making friends, suicide and mental illness rates, boredom, frustration, etc.?

Because the risk is artificially created.

If a gifted child is receiving education appropriate to their level of ability, and are not 
forced to spend upwards of 5 hours day putting up with an environment that was 
designed to work for a totally different level of ability, they have no real problems. 
Very, very few gifted children start school with any type of emotional issues - the 
issues are created by inappropriate schooling. They are not inherent in the child, 
they are created by the education system. Boredom and frustration, especially.

The situations I've talked about - for example, my cohort in a research program, I 
specifically referred to lack of support. That's what makes the difference.

Now - if the support needed was something truly unusual, it could be argued that 
just the fact of the support being needed shows real problems exits. But it's not 
unusual - what these kids need is simply what is supposed to be provided to the 
average child as a matter of course - an education that is appropriate to their level 
of ability. The average 7 year old spends their day in a classroom that is aimed at 
them. The gifted 7 year old should have the same - and when they don't, problems 
develop. The less appropriate the classroom, the more likely problems are to 
develop. There's nothing wrong with the child - it's the system they are in. 

In the social sense, gifted children rarely have problems making friends etc, 
because they lack social skills. It's quite the opposite - the problems occur because 
the other children around them do not the same level of social skills. Other kids 
don't want to be their friends, because they don't understand the gifted child. As 
succesful friendships work both ways, this is a major problem - but it's not a problem 
with the gifted child - they are simply beyond what the other kids want in terms of 
friendship. You've mentioned roleplaying games a couple of times, so I assume you 
have at least some, possibly a lot more than just some, knowledge of them. I've 
been playing D&D since I was 7 - can you imagine how many 7 year olds are 
capable of playing in a game of that type? Who have the literacy level needed to 
handle the books, the arithmetical skills to handle the calculations, a decent 
knowledge and understanding of fantasy literature which allows them to understand 
the conventions of a campaign world... there are some - but only a small minority of 
7 year olds will have the ability, and the interest, and the attention span to play such 
a game. When a child wants to play D&D and the only kids around them still have 
arguments after how many spaces to move the counter when they roll a 6 in Snakes 
and Ladders... well, basically, in those types of environments making friends 
becomes much harder for a gifted child - not because they lack social skills, or any 
other skills. If anything, it's because they have too many.

That doesn't mean there aren't gifted kids with genuine emotional and social 
problems totally unrelated to the fact they are receiving inappropriate schooling - 
there are. But they do not seem to be any more common than in the general 
population.

> On a final note, my inestimable mainland Chinese friend Kaiyu (soon expecting 
> his first child!) told me that the Chinese *don't* separate ability from effort the way 
> we do.  Diligence is smart!  A child who has ability but does not work hard is not 
> considered intelligent.  An adult who has ability but does not know how to use it to 
> make money is *stupid*.  Defining "intelligence" closer to "resourcefulness", eh?  
> Interesting, I thought.  Made sudden sense of the day when a Chinese guy in my 
> class came up after I did well on some test and said he admired me because I 
> "worked so hard".  What??? thought the western-raised Tabouli indignantly.  Is he 
> implying I have to *work hard* to get good results?  What an insult!  (see also 
> gifted child syndrome).
> 
> Very interesting.  Any cross-cultural research into giftedness, Shaun?

Some - but not a huge amount. Basically, the same general issues exist in all 
industrialised cultures (I'm not sure about others - haven't seen any research on 
those). *However* some cultures place a lot more emphasis on working hard than 
others do, in general. Asian families, and Jewish families are the ones who most 
often show up in the research, as having, in general, much stronger work ethics 
when it comes to academic study - it's been suggested that this comes, at least 
partly, from historical prejudice - these groups had to work much harder to get what 
they wanted, to deal with the handicaps society imposed on them, and so they came 
to value work more. Immigrants into countries also generally do well - because they 
are driven to succeed.

That relates to work ethic more than anything else - but where intellectual and 
academic achievement is regarded as good, it can make it easier on gifted kids as 
well - because if they want academic success, it's easier to do it, and not stand out.

Andrew Bolt's column in today (or yesterday's) Herald-Sun discusses this type of 
thing - if you can tolerate reading the man (-8

Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in
common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter
the facts to fit the views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen
to be one of the facts that need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who:
The Face of Evil | Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia