From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  1 02:51:09 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 02:51:09 -0000
Subject: girly whinge post
In-Reply-To: <a5mea5+he11@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5mqat+munr@eGroups.com>

Elkins, who we *know* is devastatingly leggy even though she tries to 
deny it, wrote:

> I'm a woman, dammit, and I don't have hips.  What I've *got* is 
> a big fat tummy and a big fat back.  You know that 
whole "waistline" 
> concept?  That weird idea that there's supposed to be some sort of 
> indentation at the waist?  Some strange concave contrivance where 
the 
> waistband is supposed to go?  Well, I don't have one of those.  I 
go 
> *out* there.  'Way out there.  You know that awful stereotype of 
the 
> guy in the undershirt with the beer belly who sits in front of the 
> tube all day?  Yeah, well, that's my body type.

Well, I did say that designers seem to think we're all shaped like 
men.  That doesn't mean that none of us ARE shaped like men.  <g>

> (Well...actually, for me, there's always the men's jeans option,
> but that only works if you never have to "dress up."  If you're
> expected ever to wear anything but jeans, then it doesn't work too 
> well.  Fortunately, at this point in my life, the only time I'm 
ever 
> called upon to get out of my slobby male drag is to attend other 
> people's weddings.  

You could stick with drag and wear men's dress clothes!  Imagine how 
dashing you would look in black tie.  The possibilities are 
delicious:  cummerbund, tails, morning coat, pearl studs in your 
French cuffs . . . If your dh is secure enough to attend family 
events with a crossdressing woman on his arm, and you're prepared to 
fend off drooling lesbians, go for it.

Amy




From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  1 08:04:14 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 08:04:14 -0000
Subject: What does this mean?
Message-ID: <a5nclv+8e6i@eGroups.com>

Okay, so I took the Harry Potter Character quiz
(http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=hpotterchars)
and these were my top 3:

1. Hermione
2. Voldemort
3. Neville

What on earth does that say about my personality? O_o

Anybody else care to share your results? I wonder if,
overall, there's an even character spread on this list.

--Anna




From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 08:07:03 2002
From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:07:03 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sizing for a particularly delicate area
References: <1014916892.1945.15453.m8@yahoogroups.com> <001e01c1c09e$3568a220$3d74e280@cc.binghamton.edu>
Message-ID: <001b01c1c0f8$138091e0$db4586d9@monica>

Oh I sympathise deeple, being both short and *ahem* generously proportioned. Last year was my graduation, and it was followed by a formal ball for which I found a beautiful strapless gown, which really suited me (after much alteration). Unfortunately this meant that I needed a strapless bra - I have  a recommendation at this point, choose a shop with a fitting service. Debenhams were fantastic, even if it did take two assistants over an hour to find something.

K
If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor.
http://minievil.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Starling 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 9:23 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sizing for a particularly delicate area


  Hello lovely ladies...

  Ladies, some of you will sympathize with this, I hope.  Men, you can't
  understand my complaint.  Feel free to read, but you won't get it.

  I cannot find bras.  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From bbennett at joymail.com  Fri Mar  1 15:42:26 2002
From: bbennett at joymail.com (bbennett320178)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:42:26 -0000
Subject: Sizing for a particularly delicate area
In-Reply-To: <a5m9ji+p82h@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5o7h2+60tf@eGroups.com>

On finding bras, try http://www.title9sports.com/. They design for 
active females and have a nice selection of underwires in lots of 
sizes. The prices aren't cheap (around $32), but I think that's just 
something that comes with needing a good bra. :b

B






From saitaina at wizzards.net  Fri Mar  1 14:51:00 2002
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 06:51:00 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sizing for a particularly delicate area
References: <1014916892.1945.15453.m8@yahoogroups.com> <001e01c1c09e$3568a220$3d74e280@cc.binghamton.edu>
Message-ID: <009501c1c130$81642720$3b4e28d1@oemcomputer>

Ah!  A familiar complaint.  Shall we start the "Big Busted Alliance for Decent Unmentionables"?  I myself have given up any hope on wearing anything but white that looks as though it came out of my grandmother's closet, no, wait, my grandmother has BETTER bras then I myself have.  

I have discovered, now at the age of 21, I am a between size and a DD.  Thus I cannot were any bra known to man and have to have mine custom made  (well, will have to, I currently have no money and am sticking to my ill fitting Kmart brand until I can afford it).  

I have no advice on where EXACTLY to buy something non white and pretty but I do suggest going to a unmentionable shop (can't spell the l word) and having them special order something within your price rang.  This can be done at Viccy's Secret and most shops.  Lane Bryant (www.brylane.com) also does larger sizes and have quite pretty and COLOURED bras but it depends on how high up of a DD you are.  Some are expensive, some aren't, depends on the style and if they're having a sale.

Saitaina


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  1 16:02:51 2002
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:02:51 -0000
Subject: Yay!  It won!
In-Reply-To: <DAV3102mgSn8g2q5JAf0000f2bb@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <a5o8nc+o5vm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Evil Flame" <slytherin_belle at h...> 
wrote:
> 
> > Thrilled that Train's Drops of Jupiter won Best Rock Song.
> > I'm slightly obsessed with that song.
 
I'm glad that the soundtrack album for "O Brother, Where Art Thou" 
won.  I love this CD!  And I enjoyed Jon Stewart's quip about there 
being no more Grammys after the mob of people involved in that 
record came to the stage, and especially the bit where he said, "I 
want to remind all of you that you are only supposed to come to the 
stage if you actually WORKED on the album, not just listened to 
it."  LOL!

--Barb
(who HAS to get a sheet-music version of "I'll Fly Away" from the "O 
Brother" CD)





From alyeskakc at netzero.net  Fri Mar  1 17:23:51 2002
From: alyeskakc at netzero.net (alyeskakc)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:23:51 -0000
Subject: B.B.A.D.U. (was Re: Sizing for a particularly delicate area)
In-Reply-To: <009501c1c130$81642720$3b4e28d1@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <a5odf7+3ruk@eGroups.com>


A subject after my own heart. I hate, hate shopping for bras. They do 
not make nice looking bras beyond a C-cup. If you're a D or larger we 
get stuck with the 1950's no style white, beige, black bras, if 
you're lucky. 

Victoria's Secret should be bra mecca but it's not. They have very 
limited D or larger selection, even in the catalogue, and the style 
choices are pathetic. Why is it so hard to get nice pretty 
underpinnings for for the well endowed? 

Another thing that bugs is trying to find shirts that fit across the 
chest. I almost always have to get XL shirts just so they aren't 
tight across my chest. Even then sometimes I still get gaps in my 
button down shirts the require a saftey pin, or saftey device as a 
crazy Austrian once told me. 

I don't even want to go into pants. I just hate clothes shopping, 
designers need to figure out that most people are not built like Kate 
Moss or Christy Turlington.

Cheers,
Kristin
::Who will never ever qualify as an anorexic super model. Why because 
I have lots of curves::




From ohtoresonate at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  1 17:33:45 2002
From: ohtoresonate at yahoo.com (ohtoresonate)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:33:45 -0000
Subject: HP reference on "ER"
Message-ID: <a5oe1p+pt97@eGroups.com>

Did anyone catch the episode of "ER" last night?  My ears pricked up 
when I heard someone mention Harry Potter but too late to catch the 
brief mention.  Can anyone tell me what was said by whom and why?

I guess that's what I get for doing dishes while watching TV...

:) OTR




From lucky_kari at yahoo.ca  Fri Mar  1 17:39:25 2002
From: lucky_kari at yahoo.ca (lucky_kari)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:39:25 -0000
Subject: SHIP: E.L.G.I.N.M.A.R.B.L.E.S.
In-Reply-To: <a5m9aq+uv7r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5oecd+vkup@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "ssk7882" <skelkins at a...> wrote:
>LOLLIPOPS Lily...well, she's even nicer, 
> isn't she?  "Oh, Sirius, stop picking on poor Severus.  It's not 
> *his* fault if he's weird and creepy and knows all of those curses. 
> I'm sure that he's just misunderstood.  And besides, can't you see 
> that he's just desperately *unhappy?*"  

I read the post yesterday in public, and I was laughing so hard that 
people were staring. This line, though, stuck out. Read it several 
times. I'm going to do it out in calligraphy, frame it, and stick on 
the wall of my LOLLIPOPS cabin. 

Eileen




From racjom at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 19:00:56 2002
From: racjom at yahoo.co.uk (racjom)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 19:00:56 -0000
Subject: Do you like licorice candy?? / Body whinging
Message-ID: <a5oj58+hlpq@eGroups.com>

*delurking*

Living in a small European country I haven't tasted licorice candy 
before. American exchange student, who is studying here, seems to be 
missing only this in our stores and as her friend from the States 
came to visit she asked her to bring some. So she brought a pack of 
Twizzlers to share with us yesterday... No offence meant but I think 
my opinion of it is voiced well by what my friend said: Looks like a 
candle and tastes like it, too :) Melanie said it is a bit old, since 
it was bought like two or three weeks ago, but still. 

I can't speak for the whole Slovenian nation, obviously, but only for 
around thirty landscape architecture students, who all agreed that 
it's terrible. We had quite a few laughs over it. 
Exchange student from Sweden loves it and says they have something 
like that there, too. Exchange student from England likes it but he 
agreed sort of with the candle comparison after hearing it :)
Oh well. 

So is it widely popular and liked all over? Do you like it? Are we 
the only ones who don't?

--------
I stopped growing when I was 12 at 154 cm and understand exactly all 
the problems with getting clothing for shorter people- especially 
trousers! I usually have to cut off at least 5 inches of length and 
the waists are almost always too wide for me. 
Not to mention that I have very small feet and getting new shoes is 
definitely the hardest thing for me. It's very hard to find a pair 
I'd like to have and then I'm mostly told they don't have it in my 
size :(


Mojca, whose mother loves to bake all sorts of wonderful sweet 
chocolaty stuff and is probably just spoiled as far as sweets are 
concerned.










From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  1 19:31:28 2002
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (jenP_97)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 19:31:28 -0000
Subject: Do you like licorice candy?? / Body whinging
In-Reply-To: <a5oj58+hlpq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5okuh+pvqn@eGroups.com>

Mojca delurked and asked if all Americans like licorice...

Well, first of all, Twizzlers AREN'T licorice, no matter *what* people
say.  Personally, I like the candle comparison, and the only time I
ever eat them is in the movie theater when there's nothing else to
keep my mouth busy (and I'm trying NOT to talk during the movie... I'm
a notorious movie commentator).  *Real* licorice is the black stuff
that has an anise/fennel-like taste (or perhaps it's the other way
'round) that comes in things like "bridge mix" and "Good 'n' Plenty"s.
My father loves the *real* stuff, and I have to attribute my love for
the stuff (in small doses) to him.  The rest of my family HATES it
(which is weird for my husband, since he loves anise and fennel
flavors), and thinks we're weird for liking it.  My dad likes it so
much that my  family *always* buys it for him... in fact, I'm sure 
he's sick of it by now but is too nice to say anything.

Anyway... just wanted to mouth off one of my pet peeves... I really
*hate* it when people call those "red vines" licorice.  It's
NOT!!!!!!!!

Jen (who likes the white and black jelly bellys best... but maybe the
coconut ones best of all)




From jfaulkne at sas.upenn.edu  Fri Mar  1 19:45:26 2002
From: jfaulkne at sas.upenn.edu (Jen Faulkner)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:45:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] HP reference on "ER"
In-Reply-To: <a5oe1p+pt97@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203011429140.26284-100000@mail2.sas.upenn.edu>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, ohtoresonate wrote:

> Did anyone catch the episode of "ER" last night?  My ears pricked up
> when I heard someone mention Harry Potter but too late to catch the
> brief mention.  Can anyone tell me what was said by whom and why?
>
> I guess that's what I get for doing dishes while watching TV...

It was a little different than most references to HP on tv. *g*

Chen, discussing that guy Randall she'd gone out with once who kept
calling and had sent flowers: "Give a guy a hand release during Harry
Potter and he's yours for life."

(I didn't tape the ep or anything, so the quote's from memory; the odd
euphemism for 'hand job''s right, though.)

--jen, who can't help but think that sort of thing might've made the
movie go by a little faster :)

* * * * * *
Jen's HP fics:
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~jfaulkne/fan/hp.html (URL change!!)
Snapeslash listmom: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/snapeslash
Yes, I *am* the Deictrix.




From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Fri Mar  1 20:51:02 2002
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (cindysphynx)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:51:02 -0000
Subject: Candy Preferences (WAS Do you like licorice candy?? / Body whinging)
In-Reply-To: <a5okuh+pvqn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5opjm+c0dt@eGroups.com>

> Mojca delurked and asked if all Americans like licorice...
> 

I agree that Twizzlers are not proper licorice.  For the record, I 
don't care for it either, but my husband thinks Twizzlers are just 
delicious.

Personally, I just love bubble gum of all types.  I also like Hot 
Tamales, and Reeses Sticks are awesome as well.  Most people *love* 
ice cream, but I'll pass on the ice cream and settle in with a bag 
of Halloween candy instead, if that's all right.

Cindy (who still has some teeth left)




From skelkins at attbi.com  Fri Mar  1 21:58:03 2002
From: skelkins at attbi.com (ssk7882)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 21:58:03 -0000
Subject: Going to Weddings In Drag
In-Reply-To: <a5mqat+munr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5othb+a598@eGroups.com>

Amy wrote:

> You could stick with drag and wear men's dress clothes!  Imagine 
> how dashing you would look in black tie.  The possibilities are 
> delicious:  cummerbund, tails, morning coat, pearl studs in your 
> French cuffs . . . 

A few years ago, I stood up for my friend at his wedding in full Best 
Man regalia.  Cummerbund, studs, the works.  I looked, if I may say 
so, rather distinguished -- if not, alas, in the least bit male.  (I 
cannot pass.  For the reasons why, refer to the Complaints of the 
Large-Breasted Women elsewhere on this list.)  I looked, in fact, 
*much* better than I had at my own wedding, at which I had ceded to 
social pressure and worn a <shudder> dress.  Spouse and I have both 
agreed that if we had the wedding thing to do all over again, I'd be 
married in a morning coat.  

I did notice, however, that at my friend's wedding, the family of the 
Bride cast me rather funny looks all the way through the ceremony.  
They seemed to forgive me, though, when I not only failed to lose the 
ring, but also gave a nice toast, made charming conversation with 
them, and refrained from pulling any twisted practical jokes on the 
newly-wedded couple as they departed the scene.

> If your dh is secure enough to attend family events with a 
> crossdressing woman on his arm, and you're prepared to fend off 
> drooling lesbians, go for it.

Fend off?

Oh.  Right.  Got married.  Doing the faithful thing.  Right.

The dh, BTW, *loves* me in drag.  He was the one who talked me into 
getting one of those "just out of the closet" haircuts a few years 
back, and he still occasionally makes noises about how much he liked 
it that way.  (I let it all grow back.  I've had long hair my entire 
life, and I...well, I just couldn't adapt to the short-hair thing, 
I'm afraid.  I'm far too set in my ways.)  

Okay.  You've convinced me.  The next time I have to play dress up,
I'm not even going to *bother* with the girl clothes.  People can 
just deal.

-- Elkins





From dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  1 23:43:06 2002
From: dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com (Elizabeth Sager)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:43:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: HP Personalities.
In-Reply-To: <1015012133.578.1730.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020301234306.2711.qmail@web20402.mail.yahoo.com>

Anna (???) wrote:

<<1. Hermione
2. Voldemort
3. Neville

What on earth does that say about my personality?
O_o>>

Um...that you're smart, evil, but very nice and very,
very forgetful?

I got:
1. Harry Potter 
2. Professor Remus Lupin 
3. Fred/George Weasley 

Ah...I'm a brave leader that survived Anna's lashes as
a 15 month old and um...God I'm confusing myself.
Someone care to interpret for me?

Liz

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com



From plumeski at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  2 01:17:05 2002
From: plumeski at yahoo.com (GulPlum)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 01:17:05 -0000
Subject: What does this mean?
In-Reply-To: <a5nclv+8e6i@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5p96h+ondb@eGroups.com>

"saintbacchus" <saintbacchus at y...> wrote:
> Okay, so I took the Harry Potter Character quiz
> (http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=hpotterchars)
> and these were my top 3:
> 
> 1. Hermione
> 2. Voldemort
> 3. Neville
> 
> What on earth does that say about my personality? O_o

No idea. Studious. but willing to achieve your aims at any cost?

> Anybody else care to share your results? I wonder if,
> overall, there's an even character spread on this list.

1) Lupin, 2) Dumbledore, 3) Hagrid, in my case.

At least it got the right gender. :-)

Though I'm at a loss to see any points of similarity between Hagrid 
and Dumbledore... 

-- 
GulPlum AKA Richard




From moongirlk at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  2 03:06:22 2002
From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 03:06:22 -0000
Subject: What does this mean?
In-Reply-To: <a5p96h+ondb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5pfje+p71p@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "GulPlum" <plumeski at y...> wrote:
> 1) Lupin, 2) Dumbledore, 3) Hagrid, in my case.
> 
> At least it got the right gender. :-)
> 

That's so weird, because check me out:

# 1 Professor Albus Dumbledore 
# 2 Professor Remus Lupin 
# 3 Rubeus Hagrid 

Of course, in my case the gender's wrong, but I have to say I'm 
perfectly happy to be compared to ANY of these three, no matter what 
some people say about my sweet Hagrid!

> Though I'm at a loss to see any points of similarity between Hagrid 
> and Dumbledore... 
> 

Ooh - let me help!  I love them both, so that's one thing, right?  
No?  Ok, how about both are committed to Good, both have a 
predisposition to trust people unless they give them a reason not to, 
both tend to get the best out of the trio by believing in them and 
expecting good things from them.  I'm sure there are other things, 
but that's a start, anway.

Oh, and Richard - do you realize you've just given hope to all us 
girls who're running around wishing there were guys like Lupin in the 
*real* world?

kimberly
apparently a girl with the heart of a very large shape-shifting barmy 
old codger, and strangely pleased despite the implications.




From jmmears at prodigy.net  Sat Mar  2 03:17:53 2002
From: jmmears at prodigy.net (serenadust)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 03:17:53 -0000
Subject: HP Personalities.
In-Reply-To: <20020301234306.2711.qmail@web20402.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a5pg91+nlvm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Elizabeth Sager <dizzylizzy182 at y...> 
wrote:

> 
> I got:
> 1. Harry Potter 
> 2. Professor Remus Lupin 
> 3. Fred/George Weasley 
> 
> Ah...I'm a brave leader that survived Anna's lashes as
> a 15 month old and um...God I'm confusing myself.
> Someone care to interpret for me?
> 

I'm really jealous, Liz

I got:
1. Hermione
2. Neville ????
3. McGonagall
 
My first and third make sense, but what the heck is Neville doing in 
the middle of my personality?  I would much prefer to be a Harry 
with at least one of the Weasleys.

Jo Serenadust









From gypsycaine at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  2 03:38:54 2002
From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (GypsyCaine)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 03:38:54 -0000
Subject: The original club is coming!
Message-ID: <a5phge+ls7p@eGroups.com>

I just hit the regular club, and got the nice little message.



Welcome Clubs Member!   
Yahoo! Clubs  
 
Congratulations, your Club is being migrated to Yahoo! Groups where 
you'll have lots of new features: 

Post / receive messages via email 
Use advanced membership management features 
Search messages in group by keyword 
Privacy of Clubs preserved 
And much, much more! 

Your Club should be finished migrating shortly but time will vary 
depending upon the size of the Club. For more information, view our 
Welcome Page for Yahoo! Clubs users. 
If you see this page for more than 1 day, please contact us here. 
 


That doesn't mean it'll happen right away--but it's a good sign.

Someone mentioned on Club Masters that the Migration should finish by 
Monday (she called Yahoo! directly).

I'm hoping!

Dee




From nesbitaa at purdue.edu  Sat Mar  2 03:39:14 2002
From: nesbitaa at purdue.edu (oboakk)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 03:39:14 -0000
Subject: What does this mean?
In-Reply-To: <a5pfje+p71p@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5phh2+rvq9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "moongirlk" <moongirlk at y...> wrote:
> That's so weird, because check me out:
> 
> # 1 Professor Albus Dumbledore 
> # 2 Professor Remus Lupin 
> # 3 Rubeus Hagrid 
> 
> Of course, in my case the gender's wrong, but I have to say I'm 
> perfectly happy to be compared to ANY of these three, no matter 
what 
> some people say about my sweet Hagrid!
> 

I thought that test was great!
However, I was really upset when I first saw my matches, but then I 
realized they're probably right:
1. Hermione
2. Neville
3. Dumbledore
4. McGonagall

There's very little hope for me...a know-it-all like Hermione, timid 
like Neville, a bit too willing to trust people like Dumbledore, with 
a great need to enforce and follow the rules.
As my mother once said, "You were definitely the one child of ours 
least likely to end up in jail."

Abby, hoping she doesn't give the same first impression as Hermione





From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Mar  2 06:05:35 2002
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 06:05:35 -0000
Subject: Sizing for a particularly delicate area
In-Reply-To: <001e01c1c09e$3568a220$3d74e280@cc.binghamton.edu>
Message-ID: <a5pq3f+qe2f@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Starling" <starling823 at y...> wrote:
 
> I cannot find bras.  I am, thanks to the delightful genetic code I 
> got from my parents (and I'd gladly give this part back)  a DD cup.
(snip)
> I am a student, I can't exactly toss away $30 for one bra.
(snip)
> but it would be nice to own something other than white.

I wish I were still a DD cup, like I was back when I was in college 
(class of '78). In those days, it was nearly impossible to find *any* 
DD cup bras, even the huge ugly ones made of white plate armor, but 
nowdays (supposedly due to the new high-tech materials invented for 
the space program) there are numerous DD cup bras offered for sale, 
and I often gaze longingly at the (Lane Bryant and Roaman's and other 
fat-lady stores) catalog pictures of lovely bright-colored lacey bras 
in sizes up to DD... but never in MY size (which is either G or H, I 
can never remember). 

I *did* find a style of bra in those fat-lady catalogs that fits me 
(!) and comes in white AND black AND beige (I usually wear beige, so 
it shows less beneath my gauzy clothes; if I thought I would EVER 
*wear* a purple bra, I would dye a white one with Rit dye; back in 
those days I bought three-quarter-length gloves, which in those days 
only came in white, and dyed them green for a costume) and even in a 
front-fasten style! They *do* cost $36 each, but it's worth it. 

> Shopping for shirts and blouses is also difficult.  I'll find a 
> great blouse, only to find it doesn't button quite properly down
> the middle.

Which happens even with shirts that are Way Too Big everywhere else. 
With shirts/dresses that I can pull over my head, I just sew the 
button fronts together. When the button front is actually necessary 
for putting the garment on, I use small safety pins (on the inside) 
to hold it shut. I have been advised to sew a zipper into the button 
placket (thus turning it into a zipper front garment with illusion 
buttons), but I am much too lazy to do that.





From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Mar  2 10:29:01 2002
From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:29:01 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: What does this mean?
References: <a5p96h+ondb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <008901c1c1d5$132d1140$ea3a86d9@monica>

      # 1 Albus Dumbledore 
      # 2 Harry Potter 
      # 3 Ron Weasley 


Well all I can say is, yay! Normally I hate these things because I never get characters I like, I did a LOTRs one once and ended up as Fatty Bolger. This more than makes up for it, although the fact that my absolute favourite character (Snape) came bottom of my list is a little irritationg

K
If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor.
http://minievil.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  2 17:09:03 2002
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 17:09:03 -0000
Subject: Personality, Glasses and Gender (was: What does this mean?)
In-Reply-To: <a5pfje+p71p@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5r0vf+dn14@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "moongirlk" <moongirlk at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "GulPlum" <plumeski at y...> wrote:
> > 1) Lupin, 2) Dumbledore, 3) Hagrid, in my case.
> > 
> > At least it got the right gender. :-)
> > 
> That's so weird, because check me out:
> 
> # 1 Professor Albus Dumbledore 
> # 2 Professor Remus Lupin 
> # 3 Rubeus Hagrid 
> 
> Of course, in my case the gender's wrong, but I have to say I'm 
> perfectly happy to be compared to ANY of these three, no matter 
> what some people say about my sweet Hagrid!

Where did anyone get the idea that personality and gender are in ANY 
WAY related?  Are you using this test to confirm your 
gender/orientation or something?  I would rant for a minute about 
gender stereotypes and the evils of a society that wants to 
pigeonhole people according to their chromosomal make-up, but I'll 
restrict myself to the topic of the personality test.

I usually get the Trio for my top three:  Harry, Hermione, then 
Ron.  I usually get Sirius, Voldemort, and the Weasley twins for my 
bottom three.  I'm still convinced Harry comes out on top for me 
because I wear glasses, which are very important to me, and the 
silly people who made up the test are confusing one's need to wear 
corrective lenses with personality, but if I go on about that, this 
will turn into a rant after all...

--Barb
(I have a non-gender-specific tool kit and I'm not afraid to use it)

 





From macloudt at hotmail.com  Sat Mar  2 17:33:21 2002
From: macloudt at hotmail.com (Mary Jennings)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 17:33:21 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: What does this mean?
Message-ID: <F54WkczV5puNsiPZKsO000066e9@hotmail.com>

In regards the Harry Potter personality test...

:::::Mary Ann strokes her long white beard, howls at the full moon, and 
checks everyone's grammar and spelling:::::

Yes, I came out (1) Dumbledore (2) Lupin (3) Hermione

I've no idea what *this* means, either!

Mary Ann
(glad that Voldemort was 15th on her list)

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com




From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Mar  2 17:37:27 2002
From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:37:27 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: What does this mean?
References: <F54WkczV5puNsiPZKsO000066e9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <001401c1c210$f7338aa0$610586d9@monica>

Well 1 and 3 would suggest that you are a bit of a know it all, but that's
alright because you *do* actually know it all!
Trying to think of some way of working Remus into that, um DADA teachere -
practical application of all the wisdom you apparently have?

K
If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one man
possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor.
http://minievil.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary Jennings" <macloudt at hotmail.com>
To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: What does this mean?


> In regards the Harry Potter personality test...
>
> :::::Mary Ann strokes her long white beard, howls at the full moon, and
> checks everyone's grammar and spelling:::::
>
> Yes, I came out (1) Dumbledore (2) Lupin (3) Hermione
>
> I've no idea what *this* means, either!
>
> Mary Ann
> (glad that Voldemort was 15th on her list)
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material
from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods --
MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
> Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> ____________________________________________________________
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>




From alyeskakc at netzero.net  Sat Mar  2 19:00:56 2002
From: alyeskakc at netzero.net (alyeskakc)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:00:56 -0000
Subject: What does this mean?
In-Reply-To: <001401c1c210$f7338aa0$610586d9@monica>
Message-ID: <a5r7h8+486q@eGroups.com>

Hmm....

# 1 Draco Malfoy 
# 2 Sirius Black 
# 3 Harry Potter 

I usually get #1)Lupin #2) Harry and #3) Hagrid or Dumbledore.

Harry must always be in the top three because I wear glasses from 
time to time. 

So what could this mean? That I'm a sarcastic little git with a 
slight dementor issue, who has a tendency to break the rules in order 
to save the world.

What this really means is don't the the quiz when you're in a bitchy 
Elven PMS mood.  (Okay this week maybe I am a cold blooded piece of 
toast)


Cheers,
Kristin




From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Mar  2 19:14:04 2002
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:14:04 -0000
Subject: Personality, Glasses and Gender (was: What does this mean?)
In-Reply-To: <a5r0vf+dn14@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5r89s+pnut@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "blpurdom" <blpurdom at y...> wrote:
> I usually get Sirius, Voldemort, and the Weasley twins for my 
> bottom three.  I'm still convinced Harry comes out on top for me 
> because I wear glasses, which are very important to me, and the 
> silly people who made up the test are confusing one's need to wear 
> corrective lenses with personality,

I looked at that quiz last year, a previous occasion when listees 
were going on about it, and it seems to me that it is a very invalid 
quiz. It seems to me that it has one question per character, the more 
Yes you answer to that question the more it says you are like that 
character, but the questions *suck*. Such as, do you have a pet for 
Hagrid, and were you ever in jail for Sirius and do you care what 
about your looks for Draco (quoted from memory).

But I will take this opportunity to announce another personality 
quiz that has NOTHING to do with HP: Which Tarot Trump are You? 
http://www.zenhex.com/tests/tarot/





From foxmoth at qnet.com  Sat Mar  2 19:39:41 2002
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:39:41 -0000
Subject: Tarot Quiz
Message-ID: <a5r9pt+l3ml@eGroups.com>

I got The Fool, which as I vaguely remember is a very powerful 
card and not as bad as it looks, but when I changed from Chaos 
to Order I got the High Priestess, which is a more flattering 
description, I think. Anybody want to interpret this?

Pippin




From moongirlk at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  2 20:34:06 2002
From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:34:06 -0000
Subject: Personality, Glasses and Gender (was: What does this mean?)
In-Reply-To: <a5r0vf+dn14@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5rcvu+1udc@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "blpurdom" <blpurdom at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "moongirlk" <moongirlk at y...> wrote:
> > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "GulPlum" <plumeski at y...> wrote:
> > > 1) Lupin, 2) Dumbledore, 3) Hagrid, in my case.
> > > 
> > > At least it got the right gender. :-)
> > > 
> > That's so weird, because check me out:
> > 
> > # 1 Professor Albus Dumbledore 
> > # 2 Professor Remus Lupin 
> > # 3 Rubeus Hagrid 
> > 
> > Of course, in my case the gender's wrong, but I have to say I'm 
> > perfectly happy to be compared to ANY of these three, no matter 
> > what some people say about my sweet Hagrid!
> 
> Where did anyone get the idea that personality and gender are in 
ANY 
> WAY related?  Are you using this test to confirm your 
> gender/orientation or something?  

Yikes!  No need to go on the attack or anything.  I just made the 
comment in response to Gulplum/Richard's, and I got the impression 
his was in response to a previous post in the last week or so where 
someone mistook him for a woman.  No big gender stereotype conspiracy.

Kimberly
who never knew there was such a thing as a gender-specific toolkit, 
and now wonders which hers is.




From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Mar  2 21:28:43 2002
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:28:43 -0000
Subject: Tarot Quiz
In-Reply-To: <a5r9pt+l3ml@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5rg6b+10puu@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> wrote:
> I got The Fool, which as I vaguely remember is a very powerful 
> card and not as bad as it looks, but when I changed from Chaos 
> to Order I got the High Priestess, which is a more flattering 
> description, I think. Anybody want to interpret this?

As I understand it, to put it crudely, the Trump II the High 
Priestess represents psychic power, magic power, and the 
unconscious mind. As for the Fool, let me quote what I posted to 
the list where I found out about this quiz:

> [Someone] wrote:
> > I am the Emperor!
> > That's a lot better than what I usually feel like: the fool.
 
> Please allow me to quibble, Your  Majesty....

> In my limited understanding of Tarot, Trump 0 the Fool is a very
> good thing, standing for not-quite-infinite possibilities. Because
> of being a person who 1) is not set in hiser ways (flexible), 
> 2) doesn't think heesh already knows it all (willing to learn), 
> 3) is on the move (in the process of changing). Therefore, heesh
> can 'grow up' to be /P/r/e/s/i/d/e/n/t/ enlightened, wise, 
> glorious, a survivor, whatever.

> and Trump IV the Emperor is not such a good thing, standing for a 
> person who 1) IS set in hiser ways (rigid), 2) DOES think that 
> heesh already knows everything (unwilling to listen, unwilling to
> learn more/different), 3) represents and enforces the status quo,
> the rules, authoritarianism, etc. 

> That it seems automatic to me that the possibility of learning and 
> changing is good and the refusal to learn or change is bad is 
> doubtlessly related to the Trump the quiz gave ME: Trump X Wheel of 
> Fortune, which specifically *represents* Change, and asserts that
> the mighty (the Emperor) WILL fall and the lowly (the Fool) WILL 
> rise. As well as to my knee-jerk defiance of rules.

I wasn't sure whether to pick Order or Chaos, but I got Trump X both 
ways.




From firefightermichelle at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  2 22:57:40 2002
From: firefightermichelle at yahoo.com (firefightermichelle)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 22:57:40 -0000
Subject: There is hope for the "breast enhanced"
Message-ID: <a5rld4+f50a@eGroups.com>

I, too, suffer from the curse of the large, desirable by all 
heterosexual males, can't find a bra to fit to save my life, chest 
syndrome.

Today in fact, I was at a store that sold nothign but undergarments.  
I found 1, count 'em, 1 bra in my size, despite the rather vast 
selection.  You think 36DD is hard to find ... add an extra D, and 
you are just out of luck!  The bras for normal chests go up to 36 C-
D, sometimes DD ... the sizes for "full-figured" women go from 38DDD 
and up.  So who does that leave out?  ME!!!!!

But for those of you who can't find a bra to save your life, let 
alone a cute bra ... check out ladygrace.com and Fredricks of 
Hollywood.  Lady Grace has a few in the nether-sizes and at 
reasonable prices.  And of course, Freddies is better known for all 
that kinky stuff ... but they do have some cute bras in our sizes, a 
lot more pricey, but hey, if you've got it ...

The only really good thing about having them this big is ... Mardi 
Gras!  Mine only cam eout 3 times, but the comments ranged from "OH 
MY GOD!!!!" to "Holy crap I've never seen any that big before" to "I 
didn't know real ones came that big".  Let me tell you ... I was 
amused! :)

Michelle :) <---who has a roomie that can't find a bra to fit either, 
but not because of abundance ... I suppose the other end of the 
spectrum is being an adult and having to stuff an A cup to make it 
fit!  :)




From voicelady at mymailstation.com  Sat Mar  2 23:47:26 2002
From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (the_voicelady)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 23:47:26 -0000
Subject: Quiz results
In-Reply-To: <a5p96h+ondb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5roae+dvq7@eGroups.com>

# 1 Professor Albus Dumbledore 
# 2 Harry Potter 
# 3 Ron Weasley 


I took this same quiz aeons ago, and don't quite remember the 
original results, except that I know the above differs quite greatly.

The Dumbledore I quite agree with, though.




From voicelady at mymailstation.com  Sat Mar  2 23:52:10 2002
From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (the_voicelady)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 23:52:10 -0000
Subject: Tarot Quiz
In-Reply-To: <a5r9pt+l3ml@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5roja+nlnh@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> wrote:
> I got The Fool, [snip]

Hmmm, I was also classified as the Fool.  Which, as anyone who knows 
me will tell you, is pretty spot on...

"A Fool!  A Fool!  I met a fool in the forest!"




From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  3 01:22:16 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 01:22:16 -0000
Subject: Tarot & Harry Potter Quizzes
Message-ID: <a5rts8+250g@eGroups.com>

Liz writes:

<<
1. Harry Potter 
2. Professor Remus Lupin 
3. Fred/George Weasley 

Ah...I'm a brave leader that survived Anna's lashes as
a 15 month old and um...God I'm confusing myself.
Someone care to interpret for me?
>>

Looks to me like you've got a healthy disrespect for
rules, and are smart and/or lucky enough to back it up.
^_^


Catlady informations us:

<<
I looked at that quiz last year, a previous occasion
when listees were going on about it, and it seems to me
that it is a very invalid  quiz. It seems to me that it
has one question per character, the more Yes you answer
to that question the more it says you are like that 
character, but the questions *suck*.
>>

You have a point there. Would anyone be interested in a
more comprehensive quiz? Like, what would be the maximum
number of questions you'd be willing to answer to get a
good response?


About the Tarot quiz, I ended up being a Fool. I like the
graphic: "I am THE FOOL." w00t!

BTW, for those who are interested, this site has tons of
different Tarot decks scanned. No Harry Potter, alas, but
lots of cool ones:
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/index.html

--Anna




From plumeski at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  3 01:23:57 2002
From: plumeski at yahoo.com (GulPlum)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 01:23:57 -0000
Subject: Personality, Glasses and Gender (was: What does this mean?)
In-Reply-To: <a5rcvu+1udc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5rtvd+92vr@eGroups.com>

"moongirlk" <moongirlk at y...> wrote:

<snip>

[I'd said, inter alia]

> > > > At least it got the right gender. :-)

[To which Barb replied]

> > Where did anyone get the idea that personality and gender are in 
> ANY 
> > WAY related?  Are you using this test to confirm your 
> > gender/orientation or something?  
> 
> Yikes!  No need to go on the attack or anything.  I just made the 
> comment in response to Gulplum/Richard's, and I got the impression 
> his was in response to a previous post in the last week or so where 
> someone mistook him for a woman.  No big gender stereotype 
conspiracy.

Congratulations, Kimblerly. Ten points to your house. :-) I saw 
Barb's post earlier in the day and was going to respond, but decided 
to wait and see if someone else might cotton on to what I was getting 
at. After all, with hindsight it was perhaps unreasonable for me to 
have expected anyone to have remembered last week's post and then 
made the connection...

Elsewhere, Kimberly said:

> Oh, and Richard - do you realize you've just given hope to all us 
> girls who're running around wishing there were guys like Lupin in 
> the *real* world?

Would all the lady Lupin fans like to form an orderly queue? I'm 
currently unattached (though just a little more than Lupin's 
canonical age). :-)

As it happens, I don't think whatever the questionnaire thought Lupin 
and I have in common is what attracts the girls. I suspect that the 
main element of Lupin's personality which you girls find attractive 
is his hardly-repressed vulnerability, which brings out all your 
maternal instincts (however deeply they may be hidden). :-)

There's also another point of Barb's upon which I wanted to comment:

> I'm still convinced Harry comes out on top for me because I wear 
> glasses, which are very important to me, and the silly people who 
> made up the test are confusing one's need to wear corrective 
> lenses with personality, but if I go on about that, this will turn 
> into a rant after all...

As someone who's worn glasses for the last 30 years, I would say that 
they are a VERY integral part of my personality. A few years ago, I 
tried contacts for about 6 months, but although they performed the 
same function in terms of my eyesight, I feel very strange without my 
specs on my face (even if 99% of the time I'm not conscious of their 
presence) - in a way, I feel naked. I could go into the psychology of 
wearing glasses forever (that would REALLY read like a rant), but 
they perform several symbolic functions well beyond being a visual 
aid.

I'm also sure that all the usual taunts during my younger years had 
their role to play in my current psychological makeup.

I do, however, agree, that being a "four-eyes" is far from a defining 
characteristic of one's personality, though I must admit I don't 
recall a question about it in this particular questionnaire. Even so, 
Dumbledore or McGonagall (and Percy from the books) would get higher 
up the chart if this element took on importance. Harry's not the only 
bespectacled character in the Potterverse...


-- 
GulPlum aka Richard, UK





From plumeski at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  3 01:36:36 2002
From: plumeski at yahoo.com (GulPlum)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 01:36:36 -0000
Subject: There is hope for the "breast enhanced"
In-Reply-To: <a5rld4+f50a@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5run4+qia5@eGroups.com>

"firefightermichelle" <firefightermichelle at y...> wrote:

> I, too, suffer from the curse of the large, desirable by all 
> heterosexual males, can't find a bra to fit to save my life, chest 
> syndrome.

<snipperama>

*ahem*. No disprespect intended, but...

Not "all", if you please. "Most", definitely, but by no means "all" 
(unless this is another cultural difference between each side of the 
Atlantic?). 







From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Mar  3 07:12:50 2002
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 07:12:50 -0000
Subject: Lupin (was: Personality, Glasses and Gender (was: What does this mean?)
In-Reply-To: <a5rtvd+92vr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5sidi+3iq1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "GulPlum" <plumeski at y...> wrote:

> As it happens, I don't think whatever the questionnaire thought 
> Lupin and I have in common is what attracts the girls. I suspect 
> that the  main element of Lupin's personality which you girls find 
> attractive is his hardly-repressed vulnerability, which brings out 
> all your  maternal instincts 

Leaving aside "vulnerability", which is a confusing word, some of the 
Lupin lovers want to take care of him, feed him up and find him a 
place to live, a job that doesn't descriminate against werewolves, 
and a generally somewhat-lower-stress life... you can call that 
maternal instincts... but IIRC some have said they fancy him BECAUSE 
he is dangerous...

but *I* do not fall into either of those categories. I fancy Remus 
because he is kind and competent and responsible, and I want *him* to 
take care of *me* ... when us readers listened in on him teaching 
the third-year Gryffindors, being gentle and helpful with Neville and 
supportive of Harry, I imagined someone treating *me* with so much 
kindness, and immediately was fallen...








From athene_51 at yahoo.ca  Sun Mar  3 08:02:53 2002
From: athene_51 at yahoo.ca (athene_51)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 08:02:53 -0000
Subject: Sizing for a particularly delicate area
In-Reply-To: <001e01c1c09e$3568a220$3d74e280@cc.binghamton.edu>
Message-ID: <a5slbd+mvql@eGroups.com>

Abbie's shopping troubles:
> I am, thanks to the delightful genetic code I got from my parents
> (and I'd gladly give this part back)  a DD cup.  I have been told
> so many times how "lucky" I am, and how many women spend millions to
> artifically achieve what I have naturally.
[snip]
> Well, if so many women want a DD, why can't anyone sell decent bras
> for it?!??  I have to look high and low for one that fits.

Ah, from the sounds of it, I should be extra, extra-glad that this 
skipped a few generations in my family. My mom and grandma are 
similarly well(over?)-endowed, but I avoided it, luckily.

But, I have a suggestion. Right after reading the original post, I 
was in the laundry room, and noticed my Mom's latest bra box. She got 
it from WalMart, manufactured by Warners. It wasn't the most 
attractive bra I've ever seen, but it wasn't ugly by any means - and 
it was relatively cheap! I live in Canada, but WalMart is pretty much 
a NA-wide phenomena, so maybe you'd have some luck there.

Hope it helps,

- Athene

--------------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/athene_51
Y!M: athene_51

I'm not obsessed, I'm just focused.




From skelkins at attbi.com  Sun Mar  3 08:51:28 2002
From: skelkins at attbi.com (ssk7882)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 08:51:28 -0000
Subject: Sizing for a particularly delicate area
In-Reply-To: <001e01c1c09e$3568a220$3d74e280@cc.binghamton.edu>
Message-ID: <a5so6g+ppp2@eGroups.com>

Abbie wrote:

> I cannot find bras.  I am, thanks to the delightful genetic code I 
> got from my parents (and I'd gladly give this part back)  a DD 
> cup.  I have been told so many times how "lucky" I am, and how many 
> women spend millions to artifically achieve what I have naturally.
> Well, if so many women want a DD, why can't anyone sell decent bras 
> for it?!??  

Because very few women really want a DD cup.  It's a myth.  Women 
generally want to look like whatever the current crop of fashion 
models look like, and let's face it, the large-chested look has not 
been in fashion for many decades now.  We're supposed to be small in 
the chest these days.  A "large-chested" woman these days means a C 
cup.  If that.

And actually, in the US at any rate, the most common form of elective 
surgery is currently breast *reduction* surgery.  Last time I saw 
a statistic on this, which was for some year late in the '80s, I 
believe, there had been twice as many purely cosmetic breast 
reduction surgeries performed in the US as there had been breast 
enhancement surgeries -- and that was discounting all of those 
operations performed for health reasons (back problems, partial 
mastectomies, and so forth).  I don't know what the precise 
percentage is now, but I know that reductions are still *far* more 
popular than enhancements here.

As for why it's so hard to find DD bras in stores, I suspect it's the
same reason that so few shops carry sizes over a woman's 14, even 
though 14 is the shirt size of the "average" American woman.  It's
because the paranoiac's unspecified "Them" simply *hates* large women 
and wants nothing more than for us all to develop eating disorders 
and then die of ketosis-related heart failure.  No other explanation 
will suffice.  ;-)

On a somewhat more helpful note, though, there are quite a few good 
on-line shops that specialize in women's underthings, and many of them
don't charge any more than you would pay for the same brands in the 
shops.  If you're looking for something serviceable and wearable, 
rather than something sexy that will make you squirm and itch and 
wish to die (lace on bras, brrrrrr...), and you already have a brand 
that you know fits you well, then you might want to try a keyword 
search for that brand name, along with "bras," or something like 
that, and see what pops up.  That's how I found the on-line store 
that I've been using for such purchases ever since the local shops 
stopped carrying any of the bras that fit me.  (There's just nothing 
quite like hearing a diminutive salesperson say in that tone of 
voice: "Oh, no, we don't carry *those* sizes anymore," is there.  
Just makes you feel warm and fuzzy all over, that does.)

Feeling your pain in a 42DD,

Elkins




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sun Mar  3 09:44:42 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 09:44:42 -0000
Subject: Sandwich spreads
Message-ID: <a5sraa+kurl@eGroups.com>

Dare I risk resurrecting the "disgusting sandwich combinations we 
love" topic by asking about corned beef?  Over on the main list a 
couple of people have suggested that the solution to a dry corned beef 
sandwich is to *butter* the bread.  Here in the U.S. the usual 
solution would be mayonnaise (unless you're Jewish, in which case 
mustard is the only way to go <g>).  Is mayo not a British thing?

Amy
peanut butter and (fake) bacon or peanut butter and mayo (Skippy 
smooth and Hellman's, please)




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sun Mar  3 09:54:25 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 09:54:25 -0000
Subject: Lupin 
In-Reply-To: <a5sidi+3iq1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5srsh+ve35@eGroups.com>

Rita wrote:

> I fancy Remus 
> because he is kind and competent and responsible, and I want *him* 
to 
> take care of *me* ... when us readers listened in on him teaching 
> the third-year Gryffindors, being gentle and helpful with Neville 
and 
> supportive of Harry, I imagined someone treating *me* with so much 
> kindness, and immediately was fallen...

Yup, that's me too.  I do like that he needs some looking-after 
himself, but this would be distinctly *un*appealing were it not for 
the fact that he is obviously a very strong, kind person who has done 
a very good job of looking after himself all these years.  He could 
use the love of a good woman (guess who wants to volunteer?) but he 
ain't the walking wounded.

I wonder why when women have a caretaking/protective attitude toward 
their partners it's called a maternal instinct, but when men have a 
similar attitude it's not called a paternal instinct?  Men do have the 
desire to take care of people also.  It seems reasonable to me that 
most romantic partnerships have this element to some degree, and that 
within reasonable bounds (i.e. not condescending or infantilizing) it 
is a very nice thing.  We all need looking-after from time to time.

Amy
who likes for someone to fetch her medicine, take her temperature, and 
say "poor honey" when she's sick




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Sun Mar  3 10:38:36 2002
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 21:38:36 +1100
Subject: Hair, personality and gender
Message-ID: <013d01c1c29f$f893a9e0$8533c2cb@price>

Elkins:
> (I let it all grow back.  I've had long hair my entire 
life, and I...well, I just couldn't adapt to the short-hair thing, 
I'm afraid.  I'm far too set in my ways.) <

Ah!  For some reason, I've *always* pictured you (Elkins) with long hair!  Is it brown and somewhat wavy as well?

Barb:
> Where did anyone get the idea that personality and gender are in ANY 
WAY related?<

I'm inclined to disagree with this.  Related in the inborn, genetic sense, perhaps not (although even that's debatable - women are born with a bigger corpus callosum linking the hemispheres of the brain, significantly different biological equipment, etc.)  In terms of socialisation, though, girls and boys are raised *so* differently, and get *such* different messages about how they're expected to behave, I think gender and personality are inevitably going to be related (though not, I imagine, in a way which would show up on an HP quiz!).  I don't mean to say that men *can't* exhibit stereotypically "female" behaviour and vice versa, it's more that men and women are having their behaviour measured on gender-specific scales.  The sort of behaviour which might be acceptable for a woman could easily be unacceptably far from the norm in a man, and vice versa.  And as anyone who's been marginalised knows, it affects the personality a lot.

Hmm.  Thoughts?  Counter-arguments?

Tabouli.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Sun Mar  3 10:17:04 2002
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 21:17:04 +1100
Subject: Corsetry Complaints, Bosomy Burblings & looks in life
Message-ID: <013c01c1c29f$f66223e0$8533c2cb@price>

Tabouli, who found willing support in her sadly stumpy sighs, is finding a distinct paucity of allies in her frustratingly flat-chested flim-flam.  Her eyes sadly slither down her OT digests, as the buxom tally swells larger and larger...

The buxom Starling:
> I cannot find bras.  I am, thanks to the delightful genetic code I got from
my parents (and I'd gladly give this part back)  a DD cup.  I have been told
so many times how "lucky" I am, and how many women spend millions to
artifically achieve what I have naturally.<

(Tabouli mutters darkly to herself and inserts the extra-large inserts into her push-up bra)


The buxom Saitaina:
> Shall we start the "Big Busted Alliance for Decent Unmentionables"?  I myself have given up any hope on wearing anything but white that looks as though it came out of my grandmother's closet, no, wait, my grandmother has BETTER bras then I myself have. <

(Tabouli glances gloomily in the mirror and heads for the bathroom for some tissues and cotton wool)

The buxom Kristin:
> A subject after my own heart. I hate, hate shopping for bras. They do 
not make nice looking bras beyond a C-cup. If you're a D or larger we 
get stuck with the 1950's no style white, beige, black bras, if 
you're lucky. <

(Tabouli suppresses dark memories of sales assistants lamenting that the bra she is failing to fill does not come in a double A cup)

The buxom Catlady:
> With shirts/dresses that I can pull over my head, I just sew the 
button fronts together. When the button front is actually necessary 
for putting the garment on, I use small safety pins (on the inside) 
to hold it shut. I have been advised to sew a zipper into the button 
placket (thus turning it into a zipper front garment with illusion 
buttons), but I am much too lazy to do that.<

(Further dark memories surface, of a buxom tailor's assistant taking three inches out of a set of shoulder-straps and adding two darts to make a dress fit, telling Tabouli condescendingly that she has to take in a lot because dresses are designed for women with... more, you understand, and you do realise it may not fall properly after the alterations, don't you dear?)

The buxom Michelle:
> I, too, suffer from the curse of the large, desirable by all 
heterosexual males, can't find a bra to fit to save my life, chest 
syndrome.<

(A hairy Italian ex looms horribly in Tabouli's mind, declaring with a dismissive sniff that she needs to realise her inadequacy in this department because All Men Prefer Big Breasts, and any man would of course trade in his flat-chested girlfriend for a bustier version.  Sorry, but that's just the way men are, and anyone who says he isn't that way is lying to get you into bed)

The wise and masterly Gulplum:
> *ahem*. No disrespect intended, but...
Not "all", if you please. "Most", definitely, but by no means "all" 
(unless this is another cultural difference between each side of the 
Atlantic?).<

(But wait, cries Tabouli, there is still hope!)

Actually, at risk of being accused of vested interest here, Gulplum has a point.  Being of the A cup persuasion myself, there *are* men who like 'em small hiding out there and forming support groups.  In Asia, where busty women are rarer, I met many who said (quoting their rude remarks with apologies to my busty sisters) that they found the huge breasts (read bigger than a C cup) they'd seen on white women crass and off-putting.  One described them as "bovine".  You mean, white men *like* them like that?  EWW!  They seemed much more interested in a pretty face, 'femininity' and slenderness than breasts.

Even among men raised in a big breast culture I have known have expressed dissent.  My own brother (who would never let sparing my feelings influence his remarks) had a very busty girlfriend once, and said after the initial novelty they didn't do it for him at all; he preferred small, shapely and perky any day, a sentiment echoed by a small but strident minority of men I've known.  A lot of these men seem to be on the slender side themselves, and perhaps prefer their women dainty all over.  Small breasts have their perks (!).

(er, yes, in case you were wondering, I do have a habit of conducting informal surveys on this sort of thing, or sending willing male collaborators out to research their friends' tastes, sinister social scientist that I am...)

Let's call a truce, eh? (says Tabouli, alone facing an army of buxom Goliaths with a stone in her padded bra).  In the leg department, the media is unequivocal.  Long is definitely the go.  In the breast department, however, the ideal, outside men's magazines and porn movies, seems to be slim with a perky C-D or so, and clothing is manufactured accordingly.  Women at *both* ends of the scale suffer for this.

Ah well.  Despite my whinging, I don't really lose sleep over my body these days.  (It's healthy.  It's in good working order).  All the same, I'm always intrigued to hear about how the way people look affects their lives.  All this hogwash about "it's what's inside that counts"... ha, since when.  Maybe "it's what's inside that SHOULD count", but that's a *very* different thing.

What say ye?  How have your looks affected your life (outside the clothing domain)?

Tabouli.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From ganvira at earthlink.net  Sun Mar  3 11:23:46 2002
From: ganvira at earthlink.net (Terry van Ettinger)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 03:23:46 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Hair, personality and gender
References: <013d01c1c29f$f893a9e0$8533c2cb@price>
Message-ID: <00b301c1c2a5$e2ca84c0$0797cd18@charterpipeline.com>

Well. there're people like me; I don't think I am all that much like my
gender. Let me just ask you all this by way of demonstration.  Which gender
do you take me for?

Terry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tabouli" <tabouli at unite.com.au>
To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 2:38 AM
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Hair, personality and gender


> Elkins:
> > (I let it all grow back.  I've had long hair my entire
> life, and I...well, I just couldn't adapt to the short-hair thing,
> I'm afraid.  I'm far too set in my ways.) <
>
> Ah!  For some reason, I've *always* pictured you (Elkins) with long hair!
Is it brown and somewhat wavy as well?
>
> Barb:
> > Where did anyone get the idea that personality and gender are in ANY
> WAY related?<
>
> I'm inclined to disagree with this.  Related in the inborn, genetic sense,
perhaps not (although even that's debatable - women are born with a bigger
corpus callosum linking the hemispheres of the brain, significantly
different biological equipment, etc.)  In terms of socialisation, though,
girls and boys are raised *so* differently, and get *such* different
messages about how they're expected to behave, I think gender and
personality are inevitably going to be related (though not, I imagine, in a
way which would show up on an HP quiz!).  I don't mean to say that men
*can't* exhibit stereotypically "female" behaviour and vice versa, it's more
that men and women are having their behaviour measured on gender-specific
scales.  The sort of behaviour which might be acceptable for a woman could
easily be unacceptably far from the norm in a man, and vice versa.  And as
anyone who's been marginalised knows, it affects the personality a lot.
>
> Hmm.  Thoughts?  Counter-arguments?
>
> Tabouli.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material
from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
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>
>
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>
>




From macloudt at hotmail.com  Sun Mar  3 11:29:43 2002
From: macloudt at hotmail.com (Mary Jennings)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:29:43 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Corsetry Complaints, Bosomy Burblings & looks in life
Message-ID: <F144PGtPrPrvCWO6hm800004c80@hotmail.com>

Snip Tabouli lamenting about her small-but-perkies:

>The wise and masterly Gulplum:
> > *ahem*. No disrespect intended, but...
>Not "all", if you please. "Most", definitely, but by no means "all"
>(unless this is another cultural difference between each side of the
>Atlantic?).<
>
>(But wait, cries Tabouli, there is still hope!)
>
>Actually, at risk of being accused of vested interest here, Gulplum has a 
>point.  Being of the A cup persuasion myself, there *are* men who like 'em 
>small hiding out there and forming support groups.  In Asia, where busty 
>women are rarer, I met many who said (quoting their rude remarks with 
>apologies to my busty sisters) that they found the huge breasts (read 
>bigger than a C cup) they'd seen on white women crass and off-putting.  One 
>described them as "bovine".  You mean, white men *like* them like that?  
>EWW!  They seemed much more interested in a pretty face, 'femininity' and 
>slenderness than breasts.

:::::Mary Ann looks down at her DD's (not a difficult task), which swelled 
to F's when breastfeeding.  A small but audible "moo" escapes from her 
lips:::::

And let us not forget King Henry VIII, who, despite being of the larger 
persuasion himself, was unable to "perform" on his wedding night with Anne 
of Cleeves (wife #4, I think) because her large breasts turned him off 
completely.  He was a small-and-perky lover himself.

>Even among men raised in a big breast culture I have known have expressed 
>dissent.  My own brother (who would never let sparing my feelings influence 
>his remarks) had a very busty girlfriend once, and said after the initial 
>novelty they didn't do it for him at all; he preferred small, shapely and 
>perky any day, a sentiment echoed by a small but strident minority of men 
>I've known.  A lot of these men seem to be on the slender side themselves, 
>and perhaps prefer their women dainty all over.  Small breasts have their 
>perks (!).

Having done informal surveys such as this myself (sinister social scientists 
unite!) I have found the same results amongst male heterosexual friends of 
European origins.  Some like 'em perky, some like 'em big, though in my 
experience it was the bigger men who prefered the more petite women.  As a 
point of interest, my DH is small and slim-framed, whereas I'm, well, 
bovine-ish.

>Let's call a truce, eh? (says Tabouli, alone facing an army of buxom 
>Goliaths with a stone in her padded bra).  In the leg department, the media 
>is unequivocal.  Long is definitely the go.  In the breast department, 
>however, the ideal, outside men's magazines and porn movies, seems to be 
>slim with a perky C-D or so, and clothing is manufactured accordingly.  
>Women at *both* ends of the scale suffer for this.

I wish to point out that, especially after pregnancy and breastfeeding, the 
terms "perky" and "D-cup" cannot be used in the same sentence :::::looks 
down at her bruised knees::::

>Ah well.  Despite my whinging, I don't really lose sleep over my body these 
>days.  (It's healthy.  It's in good working order).  All the same, I'm 
>always intrigued to hear about how the way people look affects their lives. 
>  All this hogwash about "it's what's inside that counts"... ha, since 
>when.  Maybe "it's what's inside that SHOULD count", but that's a *very* 
>different thing.

Hear, hear!  Also, may I add that the few males I know who have had close 
encounters with enhanced breasts have *hated* them.  "Gravity-defying 
boulders" is one term I particulary remember.  And Tabouli, with your small 
frame and stature, if you had my mammories, you'd keep falling forward!  
Mother Nature usually knows what she's doing in the proportion department.

>What say ye?  How have your looks affected your life (outside the clothing 
>domain)?

*You* try standing at a bar when you're 5'2" with DD cleavage.  Amazing how 
all the hetero guys "need" to lean over me and look down for some reason or 
another.  Of course, they're forgetting where my elbows are in relation to 
their whatsits.

Mary Ann
(who doesn't mind her bosom, but wishes to heck she was taller)





_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx




From ganvira at earthlink.net  Sun Mar  3 11:30:16 2002
From: ganvira at earthlink.net (Terry van Ettinger)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 03:30:16 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sandwich spreads
References: <a5sraa+kurl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <00c001c1c2a6$cb445fa0$0797cd18@charterpipeline.com>

I personally like either peanut butter with brown sugar, Hershey's syrup, or
peanut butter & honey.

Terry
> Dare I risk resurrecting the "disgusting sandwich combinations we
> love" topic by asking about corned beef?  Over on the main list a
> couple of people have suggested that the solution to a dry corned beef
> sandwich is to *butter* the bread.  Here in the U.S. the usual
> solution would be mayonnaise (unless you're Jewish, in which case
> mustard is the only way to go <g>).  Is mayo not a British thing?
>
> Amy
> peanut butter and (fake) bacon or peanut butter and mayo (Skippy
> smooth and Hellman's, please)
>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material
from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods --
MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
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>
>
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>
>




From heidit at netbox.com  Sun Mar  3 13:29:42 2002
From: heidit at netbox.com (heidit at netbox.com)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 08:29:42 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Going to Weddings In Drag
In-Reply-To: 15de
Message-ID: <16600678.270485832@imcingular.com>

Speaking of having wedding attendents of the opposite gender...

If you go to theknot.com and do a search for tandy, you'll find a 1997 article about my wedding, in which my husband and I discuss why all his attendents other than his best man were women, and why my brother was one of my attendents.

It should be understood that I had *no* problem with his choice of attendents. However, I thought that all but one would refuse to do it if he went through with his original plan to make them rent tuxes. One woman is very old fashioned and to require her to wear pants at a black tie event wouldve shocked her tremendously. Another two are size 14 and knows (knew) they'd be more comfortable in a dress. A third just would prefer the dress and jacket combination.

Ann, of course, was fine with the tux thing, looking like Marlene Deitrich as she does, but I didn't think it fair for him to require they all wear tuxes. I mean, I certainly wasn't going to make all my bridesmaids wear the same thing - they had to wear navy, it had to be long and it couldn't be strapless - that was all. So he finally conceded to ask them to wear black - dress with jacker or a tux - and ass was wonderful. Everyone was comfortable and had fun, and that's the most important thing on the weddi
ng day for one's attendents.

Heidi Tandy
Follow me to FictionAlley - Harry Potter fanfics of all shapes, sizes and ships - 7 sickles an ounce
http://www.FictionAlley.org

----Original Message----

From: "ssk7882" <skelkins at attbi.com>
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Going to Weddings In Drag
Real-To:  "ssk7882" <skelkins at attbi.com>

Amy wrote:

> You could stick with drag and wear men's dress clothes!  Imagine
> how dashing you would look in black tie.  The possibilities are
> delicious:  cummerbund, tails, morning coat, pearl studs in your
> French cuffs . . .

A few years ago, I stood up for my friend at his wedding in full Best
Man regalia.  Cummerbund, studs, the works.  I looked, if I may say
so, rather distinguished -- if not, alas, in the least bit male.  (I
cannot pass.  For the reasons why, refer to the Complaints of the
Large-Breasted Women elsewhere on this list.)  I looked, in fact,
*much* better than I had at my own wedding, at which I had ceded to
social pressure and worn a <shudder> dress.  Spouse and I have both
agreed that if we had the wedding thing to do all over again, I'd be
married in a morning coat.

I did notice, however, that at my friend's wedding, the family of the
Bride cast me rather funny looks all the way through the ceremony.
They seemed to forgive me, though, when I not only failed to lose the
ring, but also gave a nice toast, made charming conversation with
them, and refrained from pulling any twisted practical jokes on the
newly-wedded couple as they departed the scene.

> If your dh is secure enough to attend family events with a
> crossdressing woman on his arm, and you're prepared to fend off
> drooling lesbians, go for it.

Fend off?

Oh.  Right.  Got married.  Doing the faithful thing.  Right.

The dh, BTW, *loves* me in drag.  He was the one who talked me into
getting one of those "just out of the closet" haircuts a few years
back, and he still occasionally makes noises about how much he liked
it that way.  (I let it all grow back.  I've had long hair my entire
life, and I...well, I just couldn't adapt to the short-hair thing,
I'm afraid.  I'm far too set in my ways.)

Okay.  You've convinced me.  The next time I have to play dress up,
I'm not even going to *bother* with the girl clothes.  People can
just deal.

-- Elkins




________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/

Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying!

Is your message...
An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
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From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sun Mar  3 13:44:05 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:44:05 -0000
Subject: Hair, personality and gender
In-Reply-To: <00b301c1c2a5$e2ca84c0$0797cd18@charterpipeline.com>
Message-ID: <a5t9b5+elth@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Terry van Ettinger" <ganvira at e...> 
wrote:
> Well. there're people like me; I don't think I am all that much like 
my
> gender. Let me just ask you all this by way of demonstration.  Which 
gender
> do you take me for?

Haven't a clue.  Don't tell us!  :-)

Amy
who would love to carry out that experiment some time in another net 
forum





From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Sun Mar  3 14:03:12 2002
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (cindysphynx)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 14:03:12 -0000
Subject: Hair Styles and Length (WAS Hair, personality and gender)
In-Reply-To: <013d01c1c29f$f893a9e0$8533c2cb@price>
Message-ID: <a5taf0+g30e@eGroups.com>

Elkins wrote:

> > (I let it all grow back.  I've had long hair my entire 
> life, and I...well, I just couldn't adapt to the short-hair thing, 
> I'm afraid.  I'm far too set in my ways.) <

Tabouli speculated:

> Ah!  For some reason, I've *always* pictured you (Elkins) with 
>long hair!  Is it brown and somewhat wavy as well?

Funny.  I got a pretty strong brown vibe on Elkins as well.   I'm 
not getting the curly/wavy vibe, though, because short wavy hair has 
been known to drive people crazy by getting all poofy at the wrong 
time.  I don't think Elkins would have risked it.  

Elkins?

As for me, I'm kinda stuck in a rather sad 1970's hair time warp.  
Same basic hair style for 20 straight years.  Oh, sure, I'd vary the 
length by a few inches now and then to be saucy and daring.  That's 
pretty much it, though.  To my credit, I stopped the Big Hair thing 
years ago.

There was the dreaded short hair experiment a few years 
back.  ::shudder::  Short hair looks so good on . . . actresses and 
supermodels.  I also figured a woman of my advanced age shouldn't 
have shoulder-length hair.  So one day I just took it all off, 
particularly in back.  I had maybe 2 inches of hair in back.

I learned something about short hair.  It looked good sitting in the 
hairdresser's chair, but that was the last day it looked good.  I 
also felt *enormous* pressure to wear lipstick, foundation and 
earrings all the time, and I spent much more time making sure each 
strand was in place because there were so few strands.  It took 2 
years to grow back, which was no fun at all.

Cindy (in a major hair rut but not going back to short hair)




From meboriqua at aol.com  Sun Mar  3 14:32:40 2002
From: meboriqua at aol.com (jenny_ravenclaw)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 14:32:40 -0000
Subject: Corsetry Complaints, Bosomy Burblings & looks in life
In-Reply-To: <F144PGtPrPrvCWO6hm800004c80@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <a5tc68+pobc@eGroups.com>

I have been following much of this thread with interest, as I am only 
5'1" and have a chest that seems to keep growing (34DD now, thank you 
very much).  I too have suffered much while shopping for bras but that 
does not compare to the pure torture and humiliation I experience 
every June when I go looking for bathing suits.  I actually have some 
pleasant looking and nicely fitting bras and have seriously thought 
about wearing them to the park and the beach in the summer because I 
have yet to find a bathing suit top that does not cause my boobs to 
fall out of the sides and squeeze out of the front.  Not a nice look.

And now I must add another exciting element to our body discussion: 
Big Butts.  Ask any of my male students what they like and they'll 
tell you confidently and a little too excitedly that breast size is 
nice but there's nothing like a girl with a nice... ass.  I personally 
feel that the only reason Jennifer Lopez is popular at all is because 
of her butt.  My male students have even gone so far as to admit that 
they'd be happy to have sex with an ugly girl as long as she has a 
"fat ass".  It's lovely, isn't it?  It's also probably why I've been 
asked out by my students, as my butt is *not* petite.  

Any other well endowed rears out there?  Surely I am not the only one, 
and surely there are others who have similar clothing experiences, 
where the size stated is not the size that fits you *there*.  Being 
voluptuous is nice at times, but shopping for my body type (starting 
with bras and ending with pants) is very expensive.

--jenny from ravenclaw*****************************




From starling823 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  3 14:31:41 2002
From: starling823 at yahoo.com (Starling)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 09:31:41 -0500
Subject: looks affecting life, further adventures of the well endowed
References: <1015162157.3196.47693.m2@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1c2c0$26105b00$3d74e280@cc.binghamton.edu>

The buxom Starling returns, rather amazed at the number of responses her
throw-away post garnered
-- and, btw, now I know I'm truly at home on the lists...Tabuli of the
splendifirous acronyms has comment on a post of mine...i have arrived
::blushing grin::

hrm.  Looks affecting life...
Well, outside of the clothing arena, which Tabuli wisely specified, not
really.  I tend towards the pudgier side of "normal"  but that's certainly
survivable (and would probably be fixable if I cut back on the Chocolate
Frogs...).  Of course, I can say that now.  All through high school, I was
incredibly sensitive about my looks -- a bit chubby, glasses, mousy thin
stick-straight brownish hair, and absolutely no fashion sense whatsoever.  I
dreaded the Homecoming dance, every year, no matter how hard I tried, my
makeup ended up melted around my chin by the time they started playing Donna
Summers.  ::shrug::
So after graduation I'd had enough -- dragged my mom out and insisted we get
some proper clothes and not just what was on the clearance rack at Sears (my
mom has only four, not seven, but she is very much a Mrs. Weasley in her own
way.), I shushed my inner feminist and bought a few issues of Seventeen (for
the makeup tips -- and really, two or three is all you need, any more and
they start repeating themselves) and got a haircut.  And new glasses.  And
went off to college chanting my new mantra:  "Nobody here knows you so just
smile and think beautiful...nobody here knows you..."
Oddly enough, it's worked, for the most part.  I still have occasional
stress moments about my arms, I tend to avoid tank tops in public (pity my
flatmates, who don't get such courtsey <g>), and there is no way you will
catch me in Lycra.  But those are all rather basic things -- you'd think I'd
have learned earlier ::shrugs::

However, this has not caused me to become a sorority chick (with all of the
worst possible implications -- back when I lived in the dorms, we referred
to sorority girls as "pincusions."  Catty, but true, on this campus) or quit
school to model -- whatever.  I am clean, neat and presentable.  As long as
my hair is not in my eyes, my glasses and clothes are clean, and I don't
smell -- much --  it's all good.  But then, everything I've done "makeover"
wise wasn't really a makeover as much as just working with what's there.

Moving on...
Someone (I'd say who but I'm too lazy to flip thru the digest to see)
mentioned that reductive surgery is actually the more common of surgeries
going on, breastwise, nowadays.  Honestly, I'm not surprised.  If only to
make it easier to go shopping! :-p.   Seriously, though, the thought has
crossed my mind on more than one occasion, and my doctor told me I might
want to consider it one I'm older, just to get the strain off my lower back
and shoulders, which complain mightily after a long day -- there, Tabuli,
there's a reason to love your A cups.  No straps digging into your
shoulders.  I actually have permanent ridges there, no joke!
But surgery will never happen, for one very simple reason.  I have carried
these things around for nearly 22 years.  Hopefully, I'll be hauling them
around for at least thrice again that.  And since I have them, they will be
used!  If I have to have breasts, then by golly, my kids are gonna be breast
fed! ::nods decisivly::  I've heard from several places that reduction
surgery will interefere with mammary functions.  Kiss that option goodbye.

Anyway...enough babbling.  More coffee for me, or my nervous system will go
on strike.  My thanks to everyone who chimed up with suggestions on where to
acquire fitting lingerie -- I have a list now, and credit card permitting,
they will *all* be getting a visit, sooner or later :-)

Abbie, who has been inspired enough to risk the mall this afternoon, in
hopes of finding something to wear to that wedding she's so psyched about
starling823 at yahoo.com
"Harry, just go down to the lake tomorrow, right, stick your head in, yell
at the merpeople to give back whatever they've nicked and see if they chuck
it out.  Best you can do, mate."
 -Ron, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From macloudt at hotmail.com  Sun Mar  3 14:35:09 2002
From: macloudt at hotmail.com (Mary Jennings)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 14:35:09 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Hair Styles and Length (WAS Hair, personality and
 gender)
Message-ID: <F205PfYYXp0hFlJlIJb0000d75d@hotmail.com>

Cindy my fellow masochist said:

>There was the dreaded short hair experiment a few years
>back.  ::shudder::  Short hair looks so good on . . . actresses and
>supermodels.  I also figured a woman of my advanced age shouldn't
>have shoulder-length hair.  So one day I just took it all off,
>particularly in back.  I had maybe 2 inches of hair in back.

I did the same thing about 3 years back.  After, like you, having had pretty 
much the same hairstyle for years (except for the late 80's poodle perm 
brain lapse, and having played around with various hair colours) I wanted a 
radical change.  One word:  BLECK!!

>I learned something about short hair.  It looked good sitting in the
>hairdresser's chair, but that was the last day it looked good.  I
>also felt *enormous* pressure to wear lipstick, foundation and
>earrings all the time, and I spent much more time making sure each
>strand was in place because there were so few strands.  It took 2
>years to grow back, which was no fun at all.

:::::shudders at memory:::::  Been there, done that.  You are so right about 
the supermodel/actress look.  Short hair looks good on slender women with 
long, thin necks.  Short, stumpy necks with multiple chins require longer 
hair for cover-up.  It also took me ages to grow it back, but now it's just 
below shoulder length, and I'm a reasonably happy puppy.

The only reason why I bankrupt myself at the hairdresser's every few months 
for blonde streaks is because my premature grey hairs cover almost the 
entire front of my head.  Last year, at the age of 32, I kept telling myself 
that I was mature enough to face up to my white frontage and be proud of it. 
  Well (she says, sucking her thumb and stomping her foot) I *wasn't* mature 
enough, so there.  Nyah :p

>Cindy (in a major hair rut but not going back to short hair)

Ditto!

Mary Ann
(not too pleased with her gene pool today)




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx




From keegan at mcn.org  Sun Mar  3 15:28:07 2002
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 07:28:07 -0800
Subject: weddings (in drag) and hair
In-Reply-To: <16600678.270485832@imcingular.com>
References: <15de>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020303071750.00a966d0@mail.mcn.org>

At 08:29 AM 3/3/02 -0500, Heidi wrote:
>  Another two are size 14 and knows (knew) they'd be more comfortable in a 
> dress.

??  I don't get this.  I'm 5'10" and a 14 is fine for me.  When I'm about 
as thin as I ever get, I might wear a 12 in slacks.  A dress is more 
comfortable?  Are these short women?

The hair thang...  I'm lazy.  I've been lazy for most of my 41 years.  The 
hair stays long because it's easier that way.  There's gray in there but so 
what?  I haven't been able to get behind the media's thing that we all have 
to pretend we're in our 20's forever.  People get older.  It used to be an 
accepted fact and now we're all in denial.  Feh I say!

My best buddy and I would have lunch and talk about the whole aging 
issue.  She would tell me to embrace my inner hag and we'd have a big laugh 
about the whole thing.  A few years passed (faster all the time) and she 
had to go to a wedding.  At the wedding, someone mistook her for the mother 
of the bride and the bride was almost the same age she was.  Horrors!  Next 
thing I knew, I got an email from  her with a confession.  She had gone to 
the hairdresser, gotten a new style and...a dye job!  I am now the only one 
cozying up to my inner hag.  *shrug*  Oh, well.  The hag and I have gotten 
to know each other pretty well and have coffee on a regular basis.

I got a laugh from one of the subject headers in this morning's 
download.  It had the title of corsetry and I wondered Victorian or 
Elizabethan?

Catherine in California






From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Sun Mar  3 15:59:28 2002
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (cindysphynx)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 15:59:28 -0000
Subject: Swim Suit Stress (WAS Corsetry Complaints, Bosomy Burblings & looks in life)
In-Reply-To: <a5tc68+pobc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5th90+cteg@eGroups.com>

Jenny wrote:

>I too have suffered much while shopping for bras but that 
> does not compare to the pure torture and humiliation I experience 
> every June when I go looking for bathing suits.  

I know there is no answer to this question, but I just have to ask:  
What is the deal with bathing suit manufacturers?

Each year, it is the same old thing.  I go in and take, oh, maybe 25 
one-piece bathing suits into the dressing room.  Each suit has 
specifically promised me that it will not make my body look worse 
than it already is.  It says so right on the tag.  The dressing room 
has ghastly green horror-movie lighting.  I try each suit on, only 
to find that every one of them lied to me.  They *all* add pounds; 
none slims anything; nothing magically disappears.  

Then I reach for the one thing I always want to wear -- the 
Tankini.  It is the Prince of Lies.  It is designed to make sure a 
roll of tummy flab is plainly visible at all times.  That is the 
only purpose of the Tankini, so far as I can tell.  Oh, sure, long-
waisted people look good in a tankini.  But they just don't work for 
short-waisted people like me.  Maybe I'll try a Tankini on again 
this year; I don't want to give up hope.

Have you noticed what is left at the end of the swim season?  Rack 
after rack of bikinis.  Why do they ship so many bikinis and so few 
flattering suits in solid colors with strong, sturdy fabric?  Do 
they really not know what looks good on people?  Ahem.

Cindy (who finds Ralph Lauren suits to be among the worst because 
they tend to have spaghetti straps, but who gets on quite well with 
Anne Klein suits)





From michelleapostolides at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Mar  3 16:11:45 2002
From: michelleapostolides at yahoo.co.uk (Michelle Apostolides)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:11:45 -0000
Subject: Sunday afternoon boredom
Message-ID: <002d01c1c2ce$1d575a00$6afc883e@Michelle>

Seeing as chat doesn't start until Sunday evening UK time, what does everyone do with their Sundays ? 

Is their anyone who can give me a reason to like Sundays, apart from chat ?

Michelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Mar  3 16:17:26 2002
From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:17:26 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sunday afternoon boredom
References: <002d01c1c2ce$1d575a00$6afc883e@Michelle>
Message-ID: <009b01c1c2ce$e9b9bd40$752c86d9@monica>

Grand Prix season!

Although admittedly today doesn't count since I had to stay up all night to watch it

K
If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor.
http://minievil.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Michelle Apostolides 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 4:11 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sunday afternoon boredom


  Seeing as chat doesn't start until Sunday evening UK time, what does everyone do with their Sundays ? 

  Is their anyone who can give me a reason to like Sundays, apart from chat ?

  Michelle


  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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From strijkg at xs4all.nl  Sun Mar  3 16:28:51 2002
From: strijkg at xs4all.nl (Riet Strijker)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:28:51 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sunday afternoon boredom
References: <002d01c1c2ce$1d575a00$6afc883e@Michelle>
Message-ID: <001201c1c2d0$81907a40$9600000a@xbwesrtn>

*delurks for a moment*
Work! I'm working as a sportsmasseuse for about  15 sundays a year, from September till April.
Nice work,  I'm working with volleyball-youngsters, varying in the age of 9 years till 16 years old.

Riet
*Crawling back into lurkdom*


******
A room without books is like a body without a soul - Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator, writer (106-43 BC)
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Michelle Apostolides 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 5:11 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sunday afternoon boredom


  Seeing as chat doesn't start until Sunday evening UK time, what does everyone do with their Sundays ? 

  Is their anyone who can give me a reason to like Sundays, apart from chat ?

  Michelle


  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
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  ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

  Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/

  Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying!

  Is your message...
  An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
  Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
  Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
  None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
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From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  3 16:51:59 2002
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:51:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Corsetry Complaints, Bosomy Burblings & looks in life
In-Reply-To: <013c01c1c29f$f66223e0$8533c2cb@price>
Message-ID: <20020303165159.51186.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Tabouli <tabouli at unite.com.au> wrote:
> Tabouli, who found willing support in her sadly
> stumpy sighs, is finding a distinct paucity of
> allies in her frustratingly flat-chested flim-flam. 
> Her eyes sadly slither down her OT digests, as the
> buxom tally swells larger and larger...

Though I, personally, am somewhere in the middle on
this one, I do know how you feel. My sister constantly
bemoans her inability to find A cup bras that don't
look like a young lady's first bra. 

We went away to a family reunion when my daughter
(Nyssa) was 12. My sister was 32 at the time. We did
our laundry together and my sister was thoroughly
disheartened by the fact that we couldn't tell their
bras apart, except for the fact that Nyssa's had
little bows on the front. To add insult to injury, in
my sister's eyes, Nyssa has long since passed her in
bra size and never fails to toss remarks about it in
my sister's direction. 
> 
<snip>

> Ah well.  Despite my whinging, I don't really lose
> sleep over my body these days.  (It's healthy.  It's
> in good working order).  All the same, I'm always
> intrigued to hear about how the way people look
> affects their lives.  All this hogwash about "it's
> what's inside that counts"... ha, since when.  Maybe
> "it's what's inside that SHOULD count", but that's a
> *very* different thing.

Agreed, says she who recently stepped on the bathroom
scale and now wishes she'd left well enough alone.
> 
> What say ye?  How have your looks affected your life
> (outside the clothing domain)?
> 
Well, I married a man who does *not* like skinny
women, which is a very good thing, as he makes his
living as a cook and makes chocolates here at home. I
do put up with a good deal of comments from my sister,
who will do such things as poke my stomach and ask
when I'm getting rid of "that". Yes, I'm well over my
ideal weight. Does it bother me? Sometimes. Does it
affect anything I do? Not at all. I'm doing the same
things I've always done. Okay, perhaps slowing down a
bit, but I attribute that to being older, not larger.
:)

Sheryll, who's never considered giving up her glasses
for contacts but has been covering the grey hair for
years


=====
"We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times."
 blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26

______________________________________________________________________ 
Find, Connect, Date! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  3 16:58:28 2002
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:58:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sandwich spreads
In-Reply-To: <a5sraa+kurl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020303165828.99551.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>


--- lupinesque <aiz24 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dare I risk resurrecting the "disgusting sandwich
> combinations we 
> love" topic by asking about corned beef?  Over on
> the main list a 
> couple of people have suggested that the solution to
> a dry corned beef 
> sandwich is to *butter* the bread.  Here in the U.S.
> the usual 
> solution would be mayonnaise (unless you're Jewish,
> in which case 
> mustard is the only way to go <g>).  Is mayo not a
> British thing?
> 
> Amy
> peanut butter and (fake) bacon or peanut butter and
> mayo (Skippy 
> smooth and Hellman's, please)

Why the fake bacon? Peanut butter and real bacon makes
a fine sandwich. :D

I would both butter the bread on the corned beef
sandwich and then add mayo or mustard. Is that unusual
or do others do the same?

Sheryll

=====
"We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times."
 blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26

______________________________________________________________________ 
Find, Connect, Date! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Sun Mar  3 17:15:26 2002
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (cindysphynx)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 17:15:26 -0000
Subject: Sunday afternoon boredom
In-Reply-To: <002d01c1c2ce$1d575a00$6afc883e@Michelle>
Message-ID: <a5tlne+l8t5@eGroups.com>

Michelle wrote:

> Seeing as chat doesn't start until Sunday evening UK time, what 
does everyone do with their Sundays ? 
> 

I'm currently painting my daughter's bedroom, so painting something 
is a great thing to do on a Sunday.  There's always *something* 
around that could use some paint, right?

BTW, does anyone have any ideas about what to do if the selected 
paint color is turning out to be way too intense?  Think Green-Apple 
Green.  Should I just ragroll or sponge a lighter color over the too-
intense color, re-paint the whole room, or just live with it?

Cindy (who has no talent for interior decorating)




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Sun Mar  3 17:46:34 2002
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 17:46:34 -0000
Subject: Sunday afternoon boredom
In-Reply-To: <a5tlne+l8t5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5tnhq+8muc@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "cindysphynx" <cindysphynx at c...> 
wrote:
> Michelle wrote:
> 
> > Seeing as chat doesn't start until Sunday evening UK time, 
what 
> does everyone do with their Sundays ? 

Well, chat starts at twelve noon here in California. I spend a lot of 
Sundays at Santa Paula Airport where my dh indulges in *his* 
obsession: antique airplanes. Otherwise my little patch of desert 
generates an endless crop of weeds which need to be knocked 
down before they dry out and become a fire hazard. 


> BTW, does anyone have any ideas about what to do if the 
selected 
> paint color is turning out to be way too intense?  Think 
Green-Apple Green.  Should I just ragroll or sponge a lighter 
color over the too- intense color, re-paint the whole room, or just 
live with it?

Hmm...difficult to say without seeing it. It might be fun to leave 
one wall the intense color and then mix the paint with white to 
make a less intense shade for the other walls. 

Pippin






From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  3 18:45:16 2002
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 10:45:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sandwich spreads and Bras
In-Reply-To: <20020303165828.99551.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020303184516.36514.qmail@web13703.mail.yahoo.com>


 
  Sheryll Townsend <s_ings at yahoo.com> wrote: 

I would both butter the bread on the corned beef
sandwich and then add mayo or mustard. Is that unusual
or do others do the same?

Sheryll

________________________________________________

Spreads

I love mustard on all meat! Jewish people have great recipes for so many dishes! A friend of mine who is an Early Childhood Teacher, gave me tons of different things to taste! She would bring in dogie bags of so many diffrent dishes, I couldn't name any of them now, but my son always brought home a surprise from around the Jewish holidays. Potato pancakes were the kids favorite, I liked the noodles with a sweet creamy sauce. Always a sweet somewhere! Chocolate covered Maltza bread! Mustard always on corned beef! Sometimes A1 sauce! A steak sauce! Now, I have read all these posts on food, I think I better find some fruit to nibble on! Keep those happy food posts coming, might come up with something different for my picky eater James!

Bras

Sheryll don't let your sister get to you or your daughter. I developed real early, at the age of 91/2 to wear a training bra! My two older sistrs complained it wasn't fair that they started around 12! Sybil is 6 years older than me, and Kathy 5 years. Kathy was always the one with the smallest bossom and has always complained about it until she reached the age of 35! I blocked it all out! Be happy with what you have because there is always someone out there always bigger and very uncomfortable! I wouldn't wish that backache on anybody! Guys are so lucky! Oh well, I will search out some nibbles! 

Everybody have a great Sunday!

Schnoogles,

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Very Merry Band of Muggles 100%  



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From bludger_witch at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  3 18:45:36 2002
From: bludger_witch at yahoo.com (Dinah)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:45:36 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sunday afternoon boredom
References: <002d01c1c2ce$1d575a00$6afc883e@Michelle>
Message-ID: <005c01c1c2e3$9f223b30$852907d5@Dinah>

Well, Michelle, I took the desperate way out. I lazed around on my couch,
drinkink cocoa and read the complete 800+ pages of Diana Gabaldon's
"Outlander"... Again. After I tried to read "Dragonfly in Amkber" and
"Voyager" in one day but had to give up at 3am halfway through Voyager
because I had a maths test the next day <G>

BTW: It was my LAST Math test, the last I ever had in  my whole life! Yay!
(What can I say, I'm no math buff)

~ Dinah ~

"You got a big mouth." The thug told Kerry.
"That's all right. You've got a pea brain." Kerry responded. "And I can
always shut up."
"Huh?" (Terrors of the High Seas, Missy Good)



_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  3 19:00:43 2002
From: virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com (virtualworldofhp)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:00:43 -0000
Subject: Sizing for a particularly delicate area
In-Reply-To: <001e01c1c09e$3568a220$3d74e280@cc.binghamton.edu>
Message-ID: <a5trsr+47mr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Starling" <starling823 at y...> wrote:
> Hello lovely ladies...
> 
> Ladies, some of you will sympathize with this, I hope. 

> Shopping for shirts and blouses is also difficult.  I'll find a great
> blouse, only to find it doesn't button quite properly down the middle.
> Forget anything clingey.  I enjoy looking fashionable as much as the
next,
> but it's incredibly hard to do when everything fits fine except for one
> rather noticable area.... ::glares in general direction of the mall::  I
> have a wedding to go to in late May, so I have to start searching for
> something *now*, and even then that's no guarantee that I'll find
> anything...

Oh yes, it's all genetics' fault!  Whilst shopping, I quite frequently
mutter curses to my mother and her side.  And blouses?  I thought
those were hard--but they are NOTHING compared to suits and prom dresses!
It's really disheartening when you are nice size when you buy jeans
then you go to find a dress and have to move up 2/3 sizes just so the
dang thing will zip!
And suits?  Forget it.  I went up to the blimmin' LARGEST normal-size
they sell--the skirt was practically falling off, but the top wouldn't
even zip.  EVER HEAR OF ELASTIC??  Grrrrrrrrrrrr...I hate shopping. 
Maybe that's why I like shoes to much.
> 
> Honestly, I'd rather be short.  I could deal with short.  This, on
the other
> hand, is a pain in the you-know-what ;-)
Or you could be short-ish and this. :-D  Always fun stuff.

I've really got to stop complaining!  Anyway, I wish life was fair: I
could dish some of what's on top down to the bum for a bit more shape.
 Or perhaps donate some to those less fortunate?  I've already taken a
few requests from friends with opposite problems.

-Megan (whose luggage is stuck somewhere three hours away in Houston
and is without her favorite clothes and all toiletries for a while)






From virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  3 19:17:27 2002
From: virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com (virtualworldofhp)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:17:27 -0000
Subject: Swim Suit Suggestion
In-Reply-To: <a5th90+cteg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5tss7+ab8l@eGroups.com>


> Cindy (who finds Ralph Lauren suits to be among the worst because 
> they tend to have spaghetti straps, but who gets on quite well with 
> Anne Klein suits)

Suggestion to those with problems: Land's End (mail-order company)
sells EXCELLENT fitting swimsuits.  Both my mother and I have ordered
suits from there to have them fit quite well--and actually be
semi-flattering.  I am very self-conscious about my top and
mid-area--my suit is high-cut and has tummy-control panel.  There are
many options for how you want the legs cut (low-to-high), tankinis,
suits, two-pieces--for women of ALL sizes, I promise.  They are
decently priced (I guess compared to mall-prices) at anywhere from
$50-70 (well, my $60 was a lot after only getting suits at Wal-mart,
but it should last for several years and pay for itself).

http://www.landsend.com or the catalog :-D

-Megan




From ganvira at earthlink.net  Sun Mar  3 20:21:46 2002
From: ganvira at earthlink.net (Terry van Ettinger)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:21:46 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Sunday afternoon boredom
References: <a5tlne+l8t5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <002a01c1c2f1$0b088860$0797cd18@charterpipeline.com>

Me, I usually attelpt to conquer Interactive fiction, or bxrn CDs, or do
some voicemail RP.

Terry
> Michelle wrote:
>
> > Seeing as chat doesn't start until Sunday evening UK time, what
> does everyone do with their Sundays ?





From ch001d4564 at blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Mar  3 20:57:48 2002
From: ch001d4564 at blueyonder.co.uk (Martin Hooper)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:57:48 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sunday afternoon boredom
In-Reply-To: <005c01c1c2e3$9f223b30$852907d5@Dinah>
References: <002d01c1c2ce$1d575a00$6afc883e@Michelle>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303205545.009f37e0@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>

At 18:45 03/03/02, you wrote:
>"You got a big mouth." The thug told Kerry.
>"That's all right. You've got a pea brain." Kerry responded. "And I can
>always shut up."
>"Huh?" (Terrors of the High Seas, Missy Good)

Hey Dinah,

You a Missy Good fan too...? ;)  So am I although I prefer her Xena and 
Gabrielle stories....

Did you know Missy has her own mailing list..?  If not Ill email you details...

Nice to meet another fan...


Martin Hooper
AIM:martinjh99 ICQ: 43933602
http://www.martinjh.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk




From macloudt at hotmail.com  Sun Mar  3 21:09:08 2002
From: macloudt at hotmail.com (Mary Jennings)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 21:09:08 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Sunday afternoon boredom
Message-ID: <F885lbf8diz7RzDe1nu0000c783@hotmail.com>

Cindy asked:

>BTW, does anyone have any ideas about what to do if the selected
>paint color is turning out to be way too intense?  Think Green-Apple
>Green.  Should I just ragroll or sponge a lighter color over the too-
>intense color, re-paint the whole room, or just live with it?

Sponging a lighter colour over top is probably the best idea, as it can 
really soften the look of the base colour.  I made the same mistake myself 
once and the sponging worked really well.  The nice thing about sponging is 
that you have more control over the look and the shading than with a single 
solid colour.

Just my two knuts :)

As for Sunday afternoons, I flop on the couch and veg out.  DH takes at 
least one of the kids to MIL so I'm left with one or two kids and an 
afternoon to do whatever we want.  This afternoon DD and I spent ages on the 
computer playing games while the little one slept.  Just knowing I don't 
have a schedule on Sundays makes me a happy girl.  I like to think of it as 
a Mental Health Day.

Cheers!

Mary Ann :)

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com




From bludger_witch at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  3 21:15:38 2002
From: bludger_witch at yahoo.com (Dinah)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:15:38 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sunday afternoon boredom
References: <002d01c1c2ce$1d575a00$6afc883e@Michelle> <5.1.0.14.0.20020303205545.009f37e0@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000d01c1c2f8$949a4260$bec206d5@Dinah>

Hey Martin!

> Did you know Missy has her own mailing list..?  If not Ill email you
details...

Hmm. I think I saw your name on a few mails there.... I'm only lurking
because I'm a bit too busy for so much mail right now... I hope that'll
change after I graduate.

I like the X/G stories, too, but I really love that quote. I think my
favorite is The Longest Night. It's not as thrilling but I like the humour.

Dinah




_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Mar  3 21:28:28 2002
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 21:28:28 -0000
Subject: looks/personality - personality/gender - hair - swimsuit - Sunday
Message-ID: <a5u4hs+mjin@eGroups.com>

Tabouli wrote:

> of a buxom tailor's assistant taking three inches out of a set of 
> shoulder-straps and adding two darts to make a dress fit, telling 
> Tabouli condescendingly 

I might be happier with my clothes if I weren't too cheap (or too 
phobic, see below) to take them to a professional for alterations. I 
WOULD be happier with my clothes if I lived in a place where the 
(indoor and outdoor) temperature was in the 60-65Fahrenheit range all 
the time: I occasionally try to wear a pretty but long-sleeved blouse 
or sweater, or to wear a nice jacket or vest(waistcoat) over my skirt 
and top, and usually the damn temperature goes up to 72 outdoors and 
70 inside and I get so overheated that I sweat and flush with big red 
blotches over all my visible skin and feel VERY uncomfortable indeed, 
and am unable to concentrate on my work....

> One described them as "bovine". You mean, white men *like* them
> like that? EWW!

My own experience is that white men DON'T, either.

> What say ye? How have your looks affected your life (outside the
> clothing domain)? 

I must be careful answering this question, or I may drift into a 
rant, and be WAY too personal... I often wonder if I would have grown 
up to be a different, more outgoing, less rebellious person if I 
hadn't been fat and ugly my whole life (and taunted for it in youth, 
of course). Maybe I wouldn't experience meeting new people and going 
to unfamiliar places (e.g. a shop that I haven't gone to before and 
sells something that I am not an expert in) so VERY frightening that 
it is a very unpleasant experience that I would rather avoid (I once 
read a description of the symptoms of Social Phobia, and that is me). 
If I weren't so eager to avoid people, would I have become a bookworm 
and a [more or less] good student and a computer pgmmer (maybe the 
only job where one can hide in cubicle and avoid going out on sales 
pitches)? If not, who would I be? 

Mary Ann replied to Tabouli:

> *You* try standing at a bar when you're 5'2" with DD cleavage. 
> Amazing how all the hetero guys "need" to lean over me and look
> down for some reason or another.

I'm between 5'2" and 5'3" and busty (as previously mentioned) and I 
can't remember the last time a man tried to look down my shirt.... 
maybe because I don't stand up at bars, I insist on sitting. Barstool 
or booth.

Terry van Ettinger wrote:

> Let me just ask you all this by way of demonstration. Which gender
> do you take me for?  

I find that I have been consistently assuming you to be female. If 
I'm right, you may have said so somewhere. If I'm wrong (and so 
embarrassed), I may be making an assumption from the name Terry: I 
have known men named Terry but if I see the name in writing (e.g. on 
TO: list of a memo) before meeting the person, I am surprised to find 
out that it's male.

Cindy wrote:

> As for me, I'm kinda stuck in a rather sad 1970's hair time warp.
> Same basic hair style for 20 straight years. (snip) There was the 
> dreaded short hair experiment a few years  back. ::shudder:: Short 
> hair looks so good on . . . actresses and supermodels. 

Short hair DOES look good on some real-life women whom I know, 
probably they have oval faces and single chins despite being plump 
with middle-aged skin. I am not one of them: it is ESSENTIAL that my 
hair hide as much of my face as is possible without blocking my 
vision or my mouth.

I've worn my hair the same style all my life: hanging down loose: no 
curlers, no braids, no pinning up... when I was a small child, my 
mother kept getting it cut short with "pixie" bangs. As soon I was 
able to wrest control of my hair away from her, I let it grow long 
(but it refuses to grow as long as I want) and No Bangs. Occasionally 
effort to braid it, put it in a chignon, move the part away from dead 
center, all failed because I have very stubborn hair.  

When I was... 23?... in 1980? ... I got my hair cut short. It didn't 
look good on me (except once the beautician did something that made 
it curl around the edges and I looked adorable until I slept on it) 
but it was wonderfully cool and it dried instantly when I washed it 
... but I always procrastinated going back to the hair salon (because 
of social phobia, see above) and one time I procrastinated so long 
that my hair accidentaly grew back long, so I just let it be.

Cindy wrote:

> the Tankini. It is the Prince of Lies. It is designed to make sure
> a roll of tummy flab is plainly visible at all times. That is the
> only purpose of the Tankini, so far as I can tell. Oh, sure, 
> long-waisted people look good in a tankini. But they just don't
> work for short-waisted people like me. (snip) Do they really not
> know what looks good on people? Ahem.

I assume that Tankinis, like all these crop-tops that are in style 
this generation, look good on extremely slim girls who work out 
regularly and can show off their magnificently arousing flat bellies. 
The opposite of me! But I would have thought that the tank top part 
would cover more of the belly of a shortwaisted person than of a 
longwaisted person of the same circumference.

If the stores offer swimsuits that look good enough on the rack that 
customers can't resist buying them, but bad enough on the customer 
that she has to go back shopping for another, that will be good for 
the profit margin. 

Michelle wrote:

> Is their anyone who can give me a reason to like Sundays, apart
> from chat?

Sundays I don't have to go to my job so I can sleep as late as I 
like, except that in my time zone chat starts at noon so I have to 
get up for it. When I was young and energetic, I would often use the 
day off work to go to museums or go shopping.





From ch001d4564 at blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Mar  3 21:57:42 2002
From: ch001d4564 at blueyonder.co.uk (Martin Hooper)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 21:57:42 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] re: looks/personality -
  personality/gender - hair - swimsuit - Sunday
In-Reply-To: <a5u4hs+mjin@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303215314.00a5c600@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>

At 21:28 03/03/02, you wrote:
>Short hair DOES look good on some real-life women.

Oh yes indeed for proof see http://xenarulz.topcities.com/gabby/eb-gab03.htm

Renee O'Connor for one definitely suits short hair..


Martin Hooper
AIM:martinjh99 ICQ: 43933602
http://www.martinjh.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk




From bludger_witch at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  3 22:36:27 2002
From: bludger_witch at yahoo.com (Dinah)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:36:27 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] re: looks/personality -  personality/gender - hair - swimsuit - Sunday
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303215314.00a5c600@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <003a01c1c303$de2bb890$bec206d5@Dinah>

> Renee O'Connor for one definitely suits short hair..

Heh, okay, I'm biased but she looks good no matter what *sigh* Some just
have that luck.

D**


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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From pbarhug at earthlink.net  Sun Mar  3 22:30:50 2002
From: pbarhug at earthlink.net (Pam Hugonnet)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 17:30:50 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re;  The Prince of Lies-Hair-Gender, etc.
References: <a5u4hs+mjin@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3C82A41A.5140A2D9@earthlink.net>

I've been reading this thread and having such a good chuckle that I had
to join in.

I am nearly 5'10" and have a *wildly fluctuating weigh range.  Prior to
having children, I weighed between 120 and 130 lbs.  Men often said I
was too skinny. After the birth of my third child, I topped out at 210
lbs.  Talk about big boobs and big bottom; my behind was so big all I
needed was a saddle and I had outgrown the 40 F nursing bras!   There
was simply nothing anywhere that fit.

So with a little willpower and time and the help of Weight Watchers, I
lost a significant amount of weight.   While it didn't solve the too
short arm and leg problem (the curse of the tall), it did solve some of
the other problems.

For those looking for good supportive bras for the larger sized
mammaries:
    May I recommend Wachol bras.  Nordstrom carries them.   Yes, they
are expensive (40 bucks each).  But they are lovely, comfortable and
hard wearing.  I buy two: one to wear and a back up.  Alternate them and
hand wash them and they will last forever.

Tabouli wrote:

> > What say ye? How have your looks affected your life (outside the
> > clothing domain)?

    I have often been at odds with my looks for one reason or another.
As a teenager, my mother's favorite comment was that I'd be pretty if I
would just:  change my hair, wear makeup, wear more feminine clothing.
By college, I had decided to make a change.  There I was constantly
criticized by my friends for being too pretty.  In graduate school and
in my professional career being "pretty" has been a liability; I find
people tend to take me less seriously or to assume that the only thing
on my mind was my hair.   Before I had children, I was working as a
forensic psychologist in a facility for the criminally insane.  Oddly,
because I employed good boundary management, the patients were never a
real problem, but my interactions with staff and supervisors taught me
the true meaning of sexual harassment.   Now, on the downhill slide to
40 and being mostly a stay-at-home mom (I work very part-time doing
custody evaluations in private practice), my looks seem to be much less
of an issue in my interactions with the outside world.  I am who I am; I
wear makeup because it hides some of the ravages of age and stress.  I
wear the clothes I feel comfortable in.  Many of  the at home moms
around here are very competitive in terms of dress and appearances; I
try to stay out of that as much as possible. I like the way I look and
my husband likes the way I look and that is enough for me.  Oddly now,
it is my husband, as he approaches 50 in the next two years, who is
becoming obsessed with his looks.

Cindy wrote:

> > As for me, I'm kinda stuck in a rather sad 1970's hair time warp.
> > Same basic hair style for 20 straight years. (snip) There was the
> > dreaded short hair experiment a few years  back. ::shudder:: Short
> > hair looks so good on . . . actresses and supermodels.

Ah, my one vanity.  You'd not know it now as I sit here with my roots
showing and my hair hanging like a mop in front of my eyes, but I am
very picky about my hair.  I drive an outrageous distance and spend
exorbitant amounts of money on my hairstyle.  I like short hair, but I
find the maintenance to be daunting.  The  husband  hates short hair; so
I've worn a variety of mid-length styles over the past 12 years with the
occasional round of short hair.

The Cat-Lady purred:

> I've worn my hair the same style all my life: hanging down loose: no

> curlers, no braids, no pinning up... when I was a small child, my
> mother kept getting it cut short with "pixie" bangs. As soon I was
> able to wrest control of my hair away from her, I let it grow long
> (but it refuses to grow as long as I want) and No Bangs.

My mother was the opposite; she never let me cut my hair.  I was stuck
with heavy long hair until I turned 18.  My parents gave me money to get
my hair done for the prom and I got a Dorothy Hamill haircut.  I
relished the defiance but regretted the loss of my hair--at least for
the first few weeks.  In the more than 20 years since, its never been
more than shoulder length.

Cindy wrote:

> > the Tankini. It is the Prince of Lies. It is designed to make sure
> > a roll of tummy flab is plainly visible at all times. That is the
> > only purpose of the Tankini, so far as I can tell. Oh, sure,
> > long-waisted people look good in a tankini. But they just don't
> > work for short-waisted people like me. (snip) Do they really not
> > know what looks good on people? Ahem.
>

and The Cat-Lady replied:

>
> I assume that Tankinis, like all these crop-tops that are in style
> this generation, look good on extremely slim girls who work out
> regularly and can show off their magnificently arousing flat bellies.
> The opposite of me! But I would have thought that the tank top part
> would cover more of the belly of a shortwaisted person than of a
> longwaisted person of the same circumference.

Now, I am both short-waisted and have a magnificent case of
Mommy-belly.  (Well, not now because I am six months pregnant, but
that's another story).   Last summer, I bought two tankinis from Lands
End.  They were the most flattering suits I ever wore.  The two piece
look created a torso where I have none and the softer line of the looser
top covered over the bulge of my belly.   The trick with tankinis is not
buying the ultra short cropped model, but the more generously
proportioned one.
Lands End also sell them with varying sizes and structure of bra in the
top for additional support.


Oh, and Amy, it's always mustard on corned beef.  Do otherwise and the
deli-police will take you away  ;)

theverballyandphyiscallyexpansive
drpam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From morrigan at byz.org  Sun Mar  3 22:47:58 2002
From: morrigan at byz.org (Morrigan //Vicki//)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:47:58 -0800
Subject: Size (was looks/personality/height/hair)
In-Reply-To: <a5u4hs+mjin@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBLPEOCLIKCDBACHIBEEAPDCAA.morrigan@byz.org>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: catlady_de_los_angeles [mailto:catlady at wicca.net]
>
> > One described them as "bovine". You mean, white men *like* them
> > like that? EWW!
>
> My own experience is that white men DON'T, either.

I beg to differ.  I've known many white men who were very attracted to
larger breasts/butts/bodies.  That doesn't mean they're easy to find,
however; men who like large women often live in closets of their own making,
strongly influenced by society's extreme disapproval and prejudice.

> > What say ye? How have your looks affected your life (outside the
> > clothing domain)?
>
> I must be careful answering this question, or I may drift into a
> rant, and be WAY too personal... I often wonder if I would have grown
> up to be a different, more outgoing, less rebellious person if I
> hadn't been fat and ugly my whole life (and taunted for it in youth,
> of course). Maybe I wouldn't experience meeting new people and going
> to unfamiliar places (e.g. a shop that I haven't gone to before and
> sells something that I am not an expert in) so VERY frightening that
> it is a very unpleasant experience that I would rather avoid (I once
> read a description of the symptoms of Social Phobia, and that is me).
> If I weren't so eager to avoid people, would I have become a bookworm
> and a [more or less] good student and a computer pgmmer (maybe the
> only job where one can hide in cubicle and avoid going out on sales
> pitches)? If not, who would I be?

Well, I also grew up in a similiar manner.  I was a fat child, fat teenager,
and am still a fat adult.  I was horrifically shy until I went away to
college for undergrad; somehow, being on the radio as a DJ, knowing that
thousands of people listened to me daily, helped me get over a lot of the
shyness.  I still don't like large parties or outings - I tend to sit in a
corner and watch people, or talk to only one or two people.  I won't go up
and talk to people I don't know - WHY would they want to talk to ME?
Another thing that made a difference was finding the size acceptance
movement.  Knowing that there were thousands of other people who were going
through the same things I was, having the same problems, and working to find
solutions was truly amazing.  I even spent some time as the president of an
organization in California, during which time I participated in
demonstrations, gave speeches, and appeared on national and local TV.  As
you might guess, I am capable of going on and on about this subject, so I'll
shut up now. :)

> I'm between 5'2" and 5'3" and busty (as previously mentioned) and I
> can't remember the last time a man tried to look down my shirt....
> maybe because I don't stand up at bars, I insist on sitting. Barstool
> or booth.

I'm 5'10"!!  I'm taller than many men, and almost all women.  Clothes are
difficult enough to find when you're larger than normal - when you're so
much taller than normal, well...eurgh.

Oh, and on the hair thing - I'd had long hair, longer than mid-back, for
nearly 10 years.  Two months ago I decided I'd had enough.  I went to my
hairdresser - who was beyond delighted, I might add - and got it cut to
chin-length.  I LOVE IT!!  It looks so cute, and it's SO much easier to take
care of.  It might not be for everyone, but I'm so glad I did it.  Besides,
I can always grow it back if I need to. :)

Vicki, who is moving back to Chicago in 2 weeks and desperately needs to
pack and plan her road trip across the country...




From kippesp at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  3 23:05:39 2002
From: kippesp at yahoo.com (smitster1)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:05:39 -0000
Subject: Audio book readers
Message-ID: <a5ua83+pfp1@eGroups.com>

On Sunday, 3 March 2002, NPR (US's National Public Radio station) 
aired a segment "Audio Book Readers" that had about a 2 minute 
portion with Jim Dale.  I recommend listening to it.  You'll hear how 
Mr. Dale discovered the voice for Dobby.  It made me laugh anyway.

See Weekend All Things Considered (Sunday):
http://search.npr.org/cf/cmn/cmnpd01fm.cfm?PrgDate=03/03/2002&PrgID=6

The audio archive is usually available 24 hours after the show airs.





From miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au  Sun Mar  3 23:58:13 2002
From: miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au (snuffles_macgoo)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:58:13 -0000
Subject: social phobia/ hair/glasses/whinge  was looks/personality -
In-Reply-To: <a5u4hs+mjin@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5udal+asnp@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "catlady_de_los_angeles" <catlady at w...> 
wrote:
> Tabouli wrote:
> 
> > of a buxom tailor's assistant taking three inches out of a set of 
> > shoulder-straps and adding two darts to make a dress fit, telling 
> > Tabouli condescendingly 
>catlady said: 
> I might be happier with my clothes if I weren't too cheap (or too 
> phobic, see below) to take them to a professional for alterations. 


ditto! I wear jeans to work in a very unjeans friendly workplace 
because I can alter them myself. Anything else is beyond my skills.
> 

Catlady commented> 
> When I was... 23?... in 1980? ... I got my hair cut short. It 
didn't 
> look good on me (except once the beautician did something that made 
> it curl around the edges and I looked adorable until I slept on it) 
> but it was wonderfully cool and it dried instantly when I washed it 
> ... but I always procrastinated going back to the hair salon 
(because 
> of social phobia, see above) and one time I procrastinated so long 
> that my hair accidentaly grew back long, so I just let it be.

I have the (an) answer to your problem. I also have social phobia and 
loath/hate/fear the hair dressor. Such an icky eperiance being 
touched by a complete stranger, having to look in the endless bloody 
mirrors they always seem to have: I cut my own hair. It doesn't look 
super fantastic or anything but on the whole it looks fine. Getting 
it straight at the back can be annoying but the process takes less 
than 15 mins and can be done any time of the day or night. Doesn't 
cost much either. 

appropos glasses: I've been wearing mine for 25 years now. My eyes 
have actually corrected themselves and I don't *really* need them but 
I find it increadably stressful without them. In contrast my 
neighbour is so shortsighted she is nearly blind without her glasses 
but refuses to wear them for anything but reading. I think a lot has 
to do with the age you got them: I was 5, she didn't need them till 
she was 16. 

Whinge/Whine and generally feel sorry for myself note: I have bi-
polar and I've been on the edge of a depression for months now. I 
don't understand why as it's summer here. The depression/lack of 
feeling gets better, it gets worse, it never goes away. I HATE it. My 
drugs are not working and life just gets more and more overwhelming. 
On Saturday I went to Mardi Gras (Sydney's Gay and Lesbian Pride 
Parade) and usually it's such a great night, riding everybody else's 
high but nothing ... which just makes me feel more depressed. I'm 
behind at work and my house is filthy, the cats and dogs all need 
care. In reality my life is full of good things but I'm not enjoying 
them. I have to specifically point out to myself the positives and 
then I feel like Pollyanna, making the best of a bad situation 
(except things are not bad). It's very frustrating.

storm




From catlady at wicca.net  Mon Mar  4 02:52:48 2002
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 02:52:48 -0000
Subject: social phobia/ hair/glasses/whinge  was looks/personality -
In-Reply-To: <a5udal+asnp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5uni0+ujtn@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "snuffles_macgoo" <miss_megan at d...> 
wrote:

> Whinge/Whine and generally feel sorry for myself note: I have bi-
> polar and I've been on the edge of a depression for months now. I 
> don't understand why as it's summer here.(snip) My drugs are not 
> working and life just gets more and more overwhelming. 

Oh, poor dear Storm, I know how bad depression is, but I don't know 
what to do when the drugs don't work (except try other drugs). 

Good Luck.




From lordzenya at aol.com  Mon Mar  4 03:24:18 2002
From: lordzenya at aol.com (lord_zenya)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 03:24:18 -0000
Subject: Lost Fic?
Message-ID: <a5upd2+dclf@eGroups.com>

Hi,

I read a fanfic a very long time ago, and I forgot the name, and 
where it was.

I can't really remember what it was about, but in the beginning, (I 
think this is a fifth year fic) the Derslys were being VERY mean, 
okay and Uncle Vernon got so mad he shot Harry?, then Harry work up, 
at the medical wing of hogwarts? Then I think Vernon went to Wizard 
Court?, and that's all I remember.

Please let me know if you know what fanfiction I am talking about.

Thanks, Lord Zenya 




From moongirlk at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  4 05:00:30 2002
From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 05:00:30 -0000
Subject: Lupin
In-Reply-To: <a5srsh+ve35@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5uv1e+57e1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "lupinesque" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> Rita wrote:
> 
> > I fancy Remus 
> > because he is kind and competent and responsible, and I want 
*him* 
> to 
> > take care of *me* ... when us readers listened in on him teaching 
> > the third-year Gryffindors, being gentle and helpful with Neville 
> and 
> > supportive of Harry, I imagined someone treating *me* with so 
much 
> > kindness, and immediately was fallen...
> 

Amy added:
> Yup, that's me too.  I do like that he needs some looking-after 
> himself, but this would be distinctly *un*appealing were it not for 
> the fact that he is obviously a very strong, kind person who has 
done 
> a very good job of looking after himself all these years.  

Exactly - the desire to take care of him a little is there, mostly 
because he doesn't *need* it in the functional sense, but he *lacks* 
it on an emotional level, and maybe doesn't even think about it 
anymore, since as far as we know that's just the way it's always 
been.  And I definitely dig the danger lurking under the surface 
thing, but I'm not talking about the werewolf situation really - if 
you've missed it on the main list, check out the Lupin's Edge thread 
for an explanation.  But the fact is that the clincher lies in the 
fact that despite having had a pretty rotten life and depite having a 
certain Edge, he's able to be this kind, caring person.  He didn't go 
the bullied-becomes-bully route.  From his rough life he's chosen to 
learn compassion and he chooses to use his great insight to single 
out those who need compassion (like Neville and Harry).  There's just 
so much to admire there, and his failings (not being honest with 
Dumbledore) somehow make him all the more appealing.  A tragic and 
heroic figure without such failings would be too lofty and 
unattainable to really touch the hearts of all the Lupin-lovers, I 
think, so that's where the vulnerability comes in.

So, I bet Gulplum/Richard's wishing he'd never started down this 
path, and all the guys are groaning at us silly girls, but that's the 
scoop, at least from my perspective.  Lupin-lovers would like to take 
care of him a little (in my case to try to ease his guilty feelings 
and show him all the good he does), but we also want to bask in some 
of that thoughtful, perceptive kindness we've witnessed.  

kimberly
a sucker for a guy who's good to children and animals.




From jmmears at prodigy.net  Mon Mar  4 05:17:52 2002
From: jmmears at prodigy.net (serenadust)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 05:17:52 -0000
Subject: Sunday afternoon boredom
In-Reply-To: <a5tlne+l8t5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5v020+fakp@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "cindysphynx" <cindysphynx at c...> wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> I'm currently painting my daughter's bedroom, so painting 
something 
> is a great thing to do on a Sunday.  There's always *something* 
> around that could use some paint, right?
> 
> BTW, does anyone have any ideas about what to do if the selected 
> paint color is turning out to be way too intense?  Think Green-
Apple 
> Green.  Should I just ragroll or sponge a lighter color over the 
too-
> intense color, re-paint the whole room, or just live with it?
> 
 
I had the same sort of experience myself a year ago with an alarming 
shade of green. If it's just the intensity of the color and not the 
actual shade that you don't like, I found that if I took the trim 
color (off-white in my case), mixed it with glazing liquid 
(available in paint stores) and  sponged it over the green wall, it 
made it look surprisingly nice.  Another alternative is to use this 
glaze to colorwash (I used an old cloth diaper--not ever used for 
it's original purpose) over the green.  That's even easier and 
faster than sponging.
Good luck.

Jo Serenadust, scared of Martha Stewart, but curiously unable to 
look away when she's on tv




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Mon Mar  4 07:19:17 2002
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:19:17 +1100
Subject: Figs, fruity femininity, behind the scenes
Message-ID: <001601c1c34d$3e46a5c0$4137c2cb@price>

Steering adroitly from sandwiches to that other lunchbox staple, fruit, figs are in season in Melbourne!

A fine thing.  I love fruit (my father used to call me a fruit bat... hmm, by SUAVE advocates' logic, that should make me a vampire, eh? :-) ), and my fondness for figs is continually being thwarted by the fact that their season seems to be both very short and extremely obscure.  I mean, I'm sure I've seen them towards the *end* of the year, but no, here they are, in all their plump glory, in my local fruit shop.  I admit when I read that figs are fertilised by a small fly that crawls in through the little hole at the end I did flinch slightly, but hey, honey's slobbered in by bees, and rump steak, well, need one say more.

(Tabouli, noting that no fellow fig-chested females have joined her laments on list, wonders whether there is some mysterious connection between cup size and Harry Potter fandom.  Could it be that Harry, a vulnerable, motherless little lad, is apt to attract female fans of the maternal, melon-bearing (or at least mango-bearing) persuasion?)(not that I mean to imply that my fellow flat-chested females have less maternal instincts, of course...!)

Mary Ann:
> Having done informal surveys such as this myself (sinister social scientists 
unite!) I have found the same results amongst male heterosexual friends of 
European origins.  Some like 'em perky, some like 'em big, though in my 
experience it was the bigger men who prefered the more petite women.  As a 
point of interest, my DH is small and slim-framed, whereas I'm, well, 
bovine-ish.<

Curious.  Yes, I have heard this rumour about big men liking dainty women, but haven't actually encountered it much first-hand.  Maybe we should pool the fruits of our sinister social science!  All the European-origin men I can call to mind who profess to be fig-lovers are slim, albeit of varying heights.  A couple of them said they found the bodies of voluptuous women intimidating and overwhelming.  The big men I've known have varied in their *body* size preferences, some liking 'em little, but seemed pretty keen on a bit of melon on them regardless, so to speak (!).  It was all a bit depressing.  All the same, even in the darkest depths of body paranoia, I've never been tempted towards breast-enhancement surgery (eye-bag removal once or twice, but never boob job).  Ouch.  I've *had* surgery under general anaesthetic twice, and it's not something I'm keen to repeat voluntarily.

Jenny from Ravenclaw:
> And now I must add another exciting element to our body discussion: 
Big Butts.  Ask any of my male students what they like and they'll 
tell you confidently and a little too excitedly that breast size is 
nice but there's nothing like a girl with a nice... ass.  I personally 
feel that the only reason Jennifer Lopez is popular at all is because 
of her butt.  My male students have even gone so far as to admit that 
they'd be happy to have sex with an ugly girl as long as she has a 
"fat ass".  It's lovely, isn't it?  It's also probably why I've been 
asked out by my students, as my butt is *not* petite.<

My!  Clearly I need to spread the seeds of my sinister social sciencing further afield!  'Big ass'='nice ass'?  What?  Are you telling me all my years of teen angst over not having a small, round, pert bum were wasted??

My mother, in her tactful maternal wisdom, used to poke me in the designated area regularly when I was a teenager and laugh hysterically that with a bum like that I would have to go and look for an Italian man, ha ha ha.  As a result, my teenage paranoia centred mostly around this area, rather than higher up.  I tied jumpers around my waist and never tucked my shirts in, trying to hide its monstrous expanse from the world.  I wore long T-shirts over swimwear.  I pored over obscure "ass-shrinking" exercises in magazines.

You see, *this* is why I have such nightmares in getting clothes to fit me properly.  I am just under 5'2" with a size 8 bust and leg length, size 11 shoulders and rib cage, a size 10 waist, and size 12 bum and hips.  On average, a size 10 is the most likely to fit me, but it depends completely on the shape of the garment in question.

Gah.  I suppose this is the inevitable outcome of having an ideal body shape hammered into us, isn't it?  The ol' Meat Market Index at work.  There's always someone closer to the ideal than you to envy and feel insecure about, and someone further from it than you who's incensed that you have the temerity to complain at all.  It all depends on who you're comparing yourself to.  After much angst, I eventually concluded that the solution is to think of yourself in absolute terms instead of comparative terms.  Not easy, in a comparative, competitive world, but worth striving for, I decided.

Tabouli (wondering what bizarre picture of her body shape she is conjuring in the minds of her fellow OT-Chatters...)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From viola_1895 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  4 07:30:11 2002
From: viola_1895 at yahoo.com (Julie aka Viola)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:30:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Corsets, short hair and a word about "evil" sorority chicks
Message-ID: <20020304073011.31374.qmail@web12605.mail.yahoo.com>

Some interesting discussion going on here! ^_^

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Catherine Keegan
<keegan at m...> wrote:
> I got a laugh from one of the subject headers in
this morning's 
> download.  It had the title of corsetry and I
wondered Victorian or 
> Elizabethan?

And I thought it was in reference to the current,
possibly-Moulin Rouge-inspired fad for couture
corsets... some of which are absolutely gorgeous, but
I'm still too chicken to wear one. ^_^

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "catlady_de_los_angeles"
<catlady at w...> wrote:
> I often wonder if I would have grown 
> up to be a different, more outgoing, less rebellious
person 
<<snip>>
> If I weren't so eager to avoid people, would I have
become a bookworm 
> and a [more or less] good student and a computer
pgmmer (maybe the 
> only job where one can hide in cubicle and avoid
going out on sales 
> pitches)? If not, who would I be? 

This is a really, really interesting question. 

My mother is an attractive woman, when she was young
she was considered beautiful. (I say she still is, but
she always shushes me and points out that she's over
50. Silly mummy.) She is also, and has always been,
painfully shy. A lot of her feelings about social
situations are similar to yours. She doesn't like the
unfamiliar, she doesn't like big social gatherings
because she feels awkward. I coaxed her out to a movie
theatre for the first time in ten years only because
she couldn't resist seeing LOTR on the big screen.

My mom, rather than feeling inferior about her looks,
feels inferior about her intelligence and education.
She doesn't like to socialize because she's a
stay-at-home wife/mother whose family couldn't afford
to send her to college, and she feels _that_ stigma.
(This is a woman, incidentally, who teaches school
part-time, writes charming short stories and regularly
kicks my and my Phd-student brother's respective asses
at Trivial Pursuit.) 

It makes me wonder about the pressures we put on women
in our society and how different women react to those
different pressures. 

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Pam Hugonnet
<pbarhug at e...> wrote:
> Oh, and Amy, it's always mustard on corned beef.  Do
otherwise and the
> deli-police will take you away  ;)

What about horseradish on corned beef? Or, in my case,
corned beef-style processed soy protein. Mmm.
Horseradish. On rye. Or, better yet, pastrami with
thousand island, coleslaw and melted swiss. Very
hungry now...

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Morrigan //Vicki//"
<morrigan at b...> wrote:
> Oh, and on the hair thing - I'd had long hair,
longer than mid-back, for
> nearly 10 years.  Two months ago I decided I'd had
enough.  I went to my
> hairdresser - who was beyond delighted, I might add
- and got it cut to
> chin-length.  I LOVE IT!!  

On short vs. long hair: when I was 19, I "chopped off
[my] crowning glory" and haven't looked back since. I
love short hair, not least because long blonde hair
has so many associated stereotypes in our society, but
also because short hair is fun, and fun to experiment
with. Of course, that led to my experimentation with
dying it auburn, but the less said about that the
better... ^_^;

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Starling"
<starling823 at y...> wrote:
> However, this has not caused me to become a sorority
chick (with all of the
> worst possible implications 

*tries to sit on hands to keep from pointing out that
most of her sorority sisters went on to earn master's
or other advanced degrees, and that most of them,
while attractive, are more than the sum of their lip
gloss, and fails utterly* Eep. ^_^;


As far as clothes fitting woes go, I used to think
that it was all part of some giant conspiracy to keep
us aspiring to be thinner and thinner. But last year I
got very sick and dropped from my usual 130-ish lbs.
to somewhere in the neighborhood of 110. On my 5'7"
body that put me just this side of Fiona Apple. ^_^
Shopping for clothes, I had the rude awakening that
even at a so-called 'ideal' weight, clothes just don't
fit correctly. All the same problems are there, just
in slightly smaller sizes.  I _still_ have to zip my
knee high Steve Madden boots up with needle-nose
pliers to make them fit correctly.

Oh, and swimsuits? Mossimo. Hands down. They're
sporty, indestructible and have mix-and-match pieces
designed for every body type. ^_^ 

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tabouli" <tabouli at u...>
wrote:
> (Tabouli, noting that no fellow fig-chested females
have joined her laments on list, wonders whether there
is some mysterious connection between cup size and
Harry Potter fandom.  >

*laughs* Tabouli, I'm with you. Actually, I'm
somewhere nicely in between fig and mango at 34b, but
I still have to dig out my Wonderbra for use under
clingy sweaters. Though 34b is, happily, the world's
most common bra size so I never have any trouble
finding nice/well-fitted bras.

-Julie


=====

Poesy therefore is an art of imitation, for so Aristotle termith it in his word mimesis, that is to say, a representing, counterfeiting, or figuring forth -- to speak metaphorically, a speaking picture; with this end, to teach and delight. -- Sir Philip Sidney, An Apology for Poetry, 1595


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com



From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon Mar  4 08:06:27 2002
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 08:06:27 -0000
Subject: Yahoo does it again!
Message-ID: <a5v9u3+9rgk@eGroups.com>

Just to say, did you see the date and time on the 'second' version of 
my nutty mods post yesterday?

I posted that Monday evening.  When it didn't appear after a day, I 
really yhtought it was safe to assume it had been swallowed and did 
the longer one you saw on Tuesday.

Is six days a record for Yahoo?

David, who hates to be caught repeating a joke




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  4 13:27:43 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:27:43 -0000
Subject: Sandwich spreads
In-Reply-To: <20020303165828.99551.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a5vsof+ntkv@eGroups.com>

Sheryll asked:

> Why the fake bacon? Peanut butter and real bacon makes
> a fine sandwich. :D

Delicious, but I'm a veggie.

Amy
now considering creating a database wherein everyone who's mentioned 
her bra size gets listed, sorted by size of course




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  4 14:40:41 2002
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:40:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Painting techniques (was: Re: Sunday afternoon boredom)
In-Reply-To: <a5v020+fakp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020304144041.46802.qmail@web14606.mail.yahoo.com>


--- serenadust <jmmears at prodigy.net> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "cindysphynx"
> <cindysphynx at c...> wrote:
> > I'm currently painting my daughter's bedroom, so
> painting 
> something 
> > is a great thing to do on a Sunday.  There's
> always *something* 
> > around that could use some paint, right?
> > 
> > BTW, does anyone have any ideas about what to do
> if the selected 
> > paint color is turning out to be way too intense? 
> Think Green-
> Apple 
> > Green.  Should I just ragroll or sponge a lighter
> color over the 
> too-
> > intense color, re-paint the whole room, or just
> live with it?
> > 
>  
> I had the same sort of experience myself a year ago
> with an alarming 
> shade of green. If it's just the intensity of the
> color and not the 
> actual shade that you don't like, I found that if I
> took the trim 
> color (off-white in my case), mixed it with glazing
> liquid 
> (available in paint stores) and  sponged it over the
> green wall, it 
> made it look surprisingly nice.  Another alternative
> is to use this 
> glaze to colorwash (I used an old cloth diaper--not
> ever used for 
> it's original purpose) over the green.  That's even
> easier and 
> faster than sponging.
> Good luck.

Technically, colourwashing is done with watered down
paint (equal parts paint and water), not paint mixed
with glaze, and then brushed on. The brushing is done
with random strokes in every direction and allows the
bottom colour to show through. I wouldn't recommend a
drastic difference in colours, rather something that
will change the colour of the bottom layer of paint. 

We've done both our entryway and the bathroom with
this method. The entryway was painted yellow, then
colourwashed over with a pale peach, leaving us with a
very pale terracotta/peachy colour. My husband did the
bathroom with green colourwashing over a cream
basecoat. The colours are nice, but you have an
obvious brush stroke pattern when you use colours that
contrast too much, as opposed to the subtle layering
of colour in our entryway. 

The only drawback to colour washing is that it doesn't
lend itself to being washed after, so a coat of
varnish is necessary on top of it if you ever want to
be able to wash the walls without removing the paint.
It also makes it pain if you ever decide to repaint
the room, but once you've got a nice colour, who wants
to repaint? :)

Sheryll, who won't watch Martha Stewart but watches
Debbie Travis faithfully

=====
"We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times."
 blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26

______________________________________________________________________ 
Find, Connect, Date! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From s_ings at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  4 14:45:23 2002
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:45:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Sandwich spreads
In-Reply-To: <a5vsof+ntkv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020304144523.84186.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com>


--- lupinesque <aiz24 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Sheryll asked:
> 
> > Why the fake bacon? Peanut butter and real bacon
> makes
> > a fine sandwich. :D
> 
> Delicious, but I'm a veggie.

Yup, that would account for it! ::slams ears in oven
door for not thinking of this::
> 
> Amy
> now considering creating a database wherein everyone
> who's mentioned 
> her bra size gets listed, sorted by size of course
> 
Oh, that sounds like fun. Can I help? :D

Sheryll

=====
"We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times."
 blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26

______________________________________________________________________ 
Find, Connect, Date! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au  Tue Mar  5 12:13:41 2002
From: miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au (storm)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 22:13:41 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] depression and the Dursleys.
References: <1015253126.2020.92400.m2@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c1c43f$55fcd020$b5d88ec6@storm>

storm drifted into a WAY too personal whinge

to which the lovely catlady sympathised ...
> Oh, poor dear Storm, I know how bad depression is, but I don't know
> what to do when the drugs don't work (except try other drugs).
>
> Good Luck.
>
thank you catlady ... I will ask the shrink for other drugs. In the interum
complaining about my really quite good if somewhat unappreciated life has made
me feel better. It's such a shame that drugs are not the whole answer. there's
WORK too and I don't like that.

on a HP note why did the Dursely's try so hard to keep Harry? I've though that,
since they didn't want him in the first place they would be pleased to send him
on his way when the call from Hogwarts came. And why do they take him back every
year? Do you think they a. love him in a strange abusive way, b. have a family
loyalty to his genetic relationship to them (if not to him), c. enjoy having a
cheap and moving toy for Dudley to play with or d. something else. Since Cannon
is fairly silent on the Durleys, except the first chapters of book 1, I think
one can theorize wildly on thier motives  ... Anyone?

storm





From bray.262 at osu.edu  Mon Mar  4 16:04:11 2002
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:04:11 EST5EDT
Subject: *cough....cough.....wheeze....*
Message-ID: <10CCC0A1419@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

...can't....get....on...HPFGU.......lists.....

*shakes setting in....slight fever.....pulse racing.....*

ACK!

Withdrawal symptoms!  Help!

A pox on you, Yahoo!  A POX, I SAY!

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements


Frodo: I wish the ring had never come to me....I wish 
none of this had happened.

Gandalf: So do all who live to see such times, but that 
is not for them to decide.  All we have to decide is 
what to do with the time that is given us.



From catalyna_99 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  4 19:30:44 2002
From: catalyna_99 at yahoo.com (Cat)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:30:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] What does this mean?
In-Reply-To: <a5nclv+8e6i@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020304193044.38457.qmail@web10708.mail.yahoo.com>


I ended up with

1. Remus Lupin
2. Hermoine
3. Dumbledore


Cat

=====
Cat

Life's like a movie. Write your own ending. Keep believing, keep pretending.--Kermit the Frog

__________________________________________________
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From dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  4 21:32:33 2002
From: dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com (Elizabeth Sager)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:32:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: social phobia/ hair/glasses/whinge  was looks/personality 
In-Reply-To: <1015253126.2020.92400.m2@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020304213233.94753.qmail@web20403.mail.yahoo.com>

> Whinge/Whine and generally feel sorry for myself
note: I have bi-
> polar and I've been on the edge of a depression for
months now. I 
> don't understand why as it's summer here.(snip) My
drugs are not 
> working and life just gets more and more
overwhelming. 

I can say I sort of agree. As a sufferer of PTSD from
August, my life was meds, meds, meds, sleep, and more
meds. As you can imagine I got sick of taking the
meds. X_X Good luck.

Liz

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com



From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Mar  5 16:18:50 2002
From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:18:50 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] *cough....cough.....wheeze....*
References: <10CCC0A1419@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <003301c1c461$70926a40$a20086d9@monica>

lol! I thought if I mentioned my withdrawal symptoms I would seem a little pathetic :)
Which hey I may still do but at least I'll have company

K
If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor.
http://minievil.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Rachel Bray 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 4:04 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] *cough....cough.....wheeze....*


  ...can't....get....on...HPFGU.......lists.....

  *shakes setting in....slight fever.....pulse racing.....*

  ACK!

  Withdrawal symptoms!  Help!

  A pox on you, Yahoo!  A POX, I SAY!

  Rachel Bray
  The Ohio State University
  Fees, Deposits and Disbursements


  Frodo: I wish the ring had never come to me....I wish 
  none of this had happened.

  Gandalf: So do all who live to see such times, but that 
  is not for them to decide.  All we have to decide is 
  what to do with the time that is given us.

        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
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  ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Tue Mar  5 17:55:32 2002
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 17:55:32 -0000
Subject: depression and the Dursleys.
In-Reply-To: <000a01c1c43f$55fcd020$b5d88ec6@storm>
Message-ID: <a630qk+104bv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "storm" <miss_megan at d...> 
wrote:

> on a HP note why did the Dursely's try so hard to keep Harry? 
I've though that,
> since they didn't want him in the first place they would be 
pleased to send him on his way when the call from Hogwarts 
came. And why do they take him back every
> year? Do you think they a. love him in a strange abusive way, b. 
have a family
> loyalty to his genetic relationship to them (if not to him), c. enjoy 
having a cheap and moving toy for Dudley to play with or d. 
something else. Since Cannon
> is fairly silent on the Durleys, except the first chapters of book 
1, I think
> one can theorize wildly on thier motives  ... Anyone?

Ah...the challenge. A Dursley theory so wild it belongs on 
OT-Chatter. Lemmesee...They're space aliens! That's why they're 
so terrified Harry will draw attention to himself. They don't want 
anyone to discover their *real* secret. :D
    Actually though, Harry gets blamed for everything that goes 
wrong which is pretty convenient, especially for Dudley, but also 
for Vernon who can blame it on Harry that he lost the contract 
with the Masons, for example. Petunia would probably nag him 
to death about why they haven't got a second home in Majorca 
otherwise. And I believe, with no canon support whatever, that 
the Dursleys are receiving a healthy stipend for Harry's keep, 
which makes a perfectly good reason for them to keep him 
around and not damage him more than they think neccessary. Of 
course they haven't mentioned this to him. Perhaps it's all 
explained in Dumble's letter.

Pippin
glad Storm is feeling a little better today. 





From triner918 at aol.com  Tue Mar  5 16:55:32 2002
From: triner918 at aol.com (triner2001)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:55:32 -0000
Subject: Diana Gabaldon
In-Reply-To: <005c01c1c2e3$9f223b30$852907d5@Dinah>
Message-ID: <a62ta4+crmj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Dinah" <bludger_witch at y...> wrote:
> Well, Michelle, I took the desperate way out. I lazed around on my 
couch, drinking cocoa and read the complete 800+ pages of Diana 
Gabaldon's "Outlander"... Again. After I tried to read "Dragonfly in 
Amkber" and "Voyager" in one day but had to give up at 3am halfway 
through Voyager because I had a maths test the next day <G>
> 

Diana Gabaldon's latest in the series "The Fiery Cross" has just been 
released, BTW.  I had just started a series re-read when I found it at 
the book store.  Of course, I then had to read the other three before 
I could start on it!  Just finished it last week, while watching the 
Olympic Closing Ceremonies.

So now what do I read?

Trina




From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  5 20:04:02 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:04:02 -0000
Subject: The wellsprings of human devotion (was depression and the Dursleys)
In-Reply-To: <000a01c1c43f$55fcd020$b5d88ec6@storm>
Message-ID: <a638bi+13ko@eGroups.com>

I bet that subject line makes no sense, and I just
*think* it's a famous quote. ... Oh, well, onward!

Storm ponders:

<<
on a HP note why did the Dursely's try so hard to keep
Harry? I've though that, since they didn't want him in
the first place they would be pleased to send him on
his way when the call from Hogwarts came. And why do
they take him back every year? Do you think they a.
love him in a strange abusive way, b. have a family
loyalty to his genetic relationship to them (if not to
him), c. enjoy having a cheap and moving toy for Dudley
to play with or d. something else.
>>

I think there are two plausible explanations: A) they do
love him, but they hate everything he stands for and B)
they don't love him, but they don't want him dead either.

In both versions, Petunia is the key; Aunt Marge says
she would have dumped Harry in an orphanage, and I don't
see Uncle Vernon as being any less heartless. Harry isn't
even his nephew. He doesn't have any kind of family
obligation keeping him from kicking the poor kid to the
curb. What he does have is a high-strung wife whom he
seems dedicated to appeasing. So anyway.

In Scenario A, I see Petunia as grieving for Lily;
Lily's death has put things in perspective, and now she
regrets their years of fighting. Her resolve to stomp the
magic out of Harry springs from concern for his
well-being - magic got Lily (and maybe their parents)
killed, and seems rather likely to do the same to Harry.
It so happens that this goal coincides nicely with any
unreconciled resentment she still harbors; not only is
picking on Harry fun, it's for his own good! But the
point is, Petunia cares about Harry.

In Scenario B, Dumbledore's letter is very explicit
about the manner in which Lily and James died, and
Petunia realizes that getting rid of Harry would be no
different than killing him by her own hand. Although
she's furious about getting saddled with Harry, she can't
bring herself to send him away.

In my opinion, the second theory is more plausible, but
I'd rather see it be the first. :)

Speaking of the Dursleys, I'm strongly considering
adding a Dursley Appreciation Page to my homepage. It may
well be the only angle that has never been done, and I do
like them a lot.... What do you think, sirs?

--Anna




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Mar  6 00:47:50 2002
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 00:47:50 -0000
Subject: depression 
In-Reply-To: <000a01c1c43f$55fcd020$b5d88ec6@storm>
Message-ID: <a63ovm+mrut@eGroups.com>

storm wrote:
> storm drifted into a WAY too personal whinge
>
> complaining about my really quite good if somewhat unappreciated 
life has made
> me feel better. It's such a shame that drugs are not the whole 
answer. there's
> WORK too and I don't like that.
> 
Nothing to say about Dursleys, but you are appreciated here, storm.

You too, bored-on-Sunday Michelle.

David




From lordzenya at aol.com  Wed Mar  6 01:39:24 2002
From: lordzenya at aol.com (lord_zenya)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 01:39:24 -0000
Subject: re. to Lost Fic?
Message-ID: <a63s0c+4283@eGroups.com>

Hi, again I really wanna find this fic, so please if you know about 
it tell me.

Thanks to (wont give email) but ya know who you are, Power of Will by 
Farseeker wasnt the fic, but you right it is a VERY good fic. 
Thanks!!!

umm okay, and er... O yeah Harry does get shot by Vernon, and heres 
what I wrote in the first post

I can't really remember what it was about, but in the beginning, (I 
think this is a fifth year fic) the Derslys were being VERY mean, 
okay and Uncle Vernon got so mad he shot Harry, then Harry woke up, 
at the medical wing of hogwarts?, (accurately I think he work up at a 
muggle one) Then I think Vernon went to Wizard Court?, and that's all 
I remember. 

Please Help
Cya, Lord Zenya




From devin.smither at yale.edu  Tue Mar  5 21:48:17 2002
From: devin.smither at yale.edu (uilnslcoap)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 21:48:17 -0000
Subject: What does this mean?
In-Reply-To: <a5phh2+rvq9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a63ef1+427i@eGroups.com>

Here are mine:

1) Harry Potter (I've got the free-roaming dark hair, skinniness, 
green eyes, and glasses, I'm not sure what it says about personality, 
I really like Harry though)
2) Hermione Granger (guess it's the academic in me, though I like the 
idea of her general decency and kindness as well)
3) Neville Longbottom (might be the sort of general ineptness of me, 
not physically but in other situations, and he's kind too)

Following that are Lupin and Hagrid (both of whom I really like as 
well).  I really couldn't be happier with these results.  ESPECIALLY 
since Lockhart was right at the bottom of mine.

Devin




From dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  4 20:28:45 2002
From: dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com (Elizabeth Sager)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:28:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Remus Lupin and Cross dressing at weddings (not one and the same)
In-Reply-To: <1015162157.3196.47693.m2@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020304202845.10193.qmail@web20406.mail.yahoo.com>

Rita wrote: 
I fancy Remus because he is kind and competent and
responsible, and I want *him* to take care of *me* ...
when us readers listened in on him teaching the
third-year Gryffindors, being gentle and helpful with
Neville and supportive of Harry, I imagined someone
treating *me* with so much kindness, and immediately
was fallen... 

Amy replied:
<<Yup, that's me too. I do like that he needs some
looking-after himself, but this would be distinctly
*un*appealing were it not for the fact that he is
obviously a very strong, kind person who has done a
very good job of looking after himself all these
years. He could use the love of a good woman (guess
who wants to volunteer?) but he ain't the walking
wounded. I wonder why when women have a
caretaking/protective attitude toward their partners
it's called a maternal instinct, but when men have a
similar attitude it's not called a paternal instinct?
Men do have the desire to take care of people also. It
seems reasonable to me that most romantic partnerships
have this element to some degree, and that within
reasonable bounds (i.e. not condescending or
infantilizing) it is a very nice thing. We all need
looking-after from time to time. >>

I agree! Although at sixteen I am below legal (;D),
hes only fictional, right? I appreciated that he was
intelligent. Intelligent people, let alone intelligent
men, are in short supply in my area. And I may only be
a sophomore in high school, but I know what I want in
a man. Intelligent, responsible, kind, good with kids,
psychologically strong, and British (what, I can be
the teeniest bit shallow? ;) top this list. The
werewolf thing is pretty cool too. 

Once read some interesting fic about Remus getting a
good woman and stuffvery good series, maybe later..

<<Heidi and someone else (Mary Ann??) posted about
cross-dressing at weddings>>

I must admit, when I first saw the subject of the
thread, it made me think of other thingswell, I was
wrong. Hehe. 

I was at my cousins wedding last year, and they had
almost all girls as ushers. My younger cousin Cody was
the only male. Well, he was wearing the traditional
tux (looking very handsome, I might add ;) and the
girls were wearing tux shirts and jackets with black
skirts. It was very elegant and tasteful. 

Ta!
Liz


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com



From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  6 00:43:25 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 00:43:25 -0000
Subject: The wellsprings of human devotion (was depression and the Dursleys)
In-Reply-To: <a638bi+13ko@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a63ond+ds3b@eGroups.com>

Anna proposed:

> Speaking of the Dursleys, I'm strongly considering
> adding a Dursley Appreciation Page to my homepage. It may
> well be the only angle that has never been done, and I do
> like them a lot.... What do you think, sirs?

Can we throw cybertomatoes?

Amy
*waves across the net to another MST3K fan*




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Tue Mar  5 23:54:28 2002
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 18:54:28 -0500
Subject: Passive-Aggressive?
Message-ID: <3AF85CC0.2DDB67AA.6E93A4F5@netscape.net>

I have another question.

What is the meaning of 'passive-aggressive'?  It has come up on the main list a few times recently.

David
-- 




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From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  6 05:30:24 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:30:24 -0000
Subject: Passive-Aggressive?
In-Reply-To: <3AF85CC0.2DDB67AA.6E93A4F5@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <a649hg+df4m@eGroups.com>

David:

<<
What is the meaning of 'passive-aggressive'? It has come
up on the main list a few times recently.
>>

In reference to Ron and Molly, I assume? "Passive-
aggressive" refers to a pattern of behavior (or
personality) where, instead of standing up for oneself,
a person takes abuse quietly and gets revenge secretly.

For instance, say you hate your boss because he's overly
critical and doesn't offer reasonable or helpful advice.
You don't say a word about this to him. Instead, you spit
in his coffee mug every morning. Or you act edgy whenever
he's around. Or you don't follow his orders.

It's an exasperating thing to deal with, because none of
that kind of behavior gets to the heart of the problem.
The theoretical victim might not even know there is a
problem.

Anyway, all of this is kind of a distant memory from my
eighth-grade Careers class (don't ask - that class was
bizarre), so everyone can feel free to jump on me for
being wrong. I will, however, be inspecting my coffee
mugs, so no funny business! ^_^


--Anna, armchair diagnosin'




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Tue Mar  5 17:27:31 2002
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 17:27:31 -0000
Subject: Apologies (was *cough....cough.....wheeze....*)
In-Reply-To: <10CCC0A1419@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <a62v63+cmgb@eGroups.com>

Rachel Bray wrote:
> ...can't....get....on...HPFGU.......lists.....
> 
> *shakes setting in....slight fever.....pulse racing.....*
> 
> ACK!
> 
> Withdrawal symptoms!  Help!
> 
> A pox on you, Yahoo!  A POX, I SAY!
> 
It's obviously my fault for criticising them yesterday - they took a 
hideous revenge by closing us down for a day... No! No! I mean the 
beneficent Yahoos brought manifold and wonderful improvements to 
their system AAARGH! Stop hitting me! I won't do it again! Forgive 
me, my Lord

Davery

System Manager's Note: All Yahoogroup members are reminded that any 
criticism of Yahoo constitutes a sign of Muggle-loving folly and will 
be dealt with accordingly

V




From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  6 05:47:01 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:47:01 -0000
Subject: Dursley Depreciation (was The wellsprings of human devotion)
In-Reply-To: <a63ond+ds3b@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a64agl+tfdm@eGroups.com>

Amy writes:

> Can we throw cybertomatoes?

Hmmm, I don't think that will do much to quell Harry 
Melling's fear of being hated the world over. If I do go
through with it, I'll be sure to include a poll where
you can cast your vote against them, though. I figure
it's only polite if you're going to be singing the
praises of villains. ^_^


> *waves across the net to another MST3K fan*

Hallo, Siegfried! Hallo, Roy! ^_^

I just got a couple of the DVDs for my birthday, so I'm
feeling quite MiSTy.

--Anna




From racjom at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar  6 07:13:04 2002
From: racjom at yahoo.co.uk (racjom)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 07:13:04 -0000
Subject: Dreaming about Harry
Message-ID: <a64fi0+fqqr@eGroups.com>

I just woke up from a weird dream and thought I'd share.
I dreamt that I saw the Chamber of secrets movie and Dan's changed so 
much I didn't racognise him... He was all grown up! I have no idea 
why that crept in my dreams. 
It was the second time I dreamt something hp-related. The first dream 
was from a slash fic. But I dreamt that after reading Rhysenn's IP 
late at night so I sort of get it. Oh, well..

Has anybody else here dreamt about something from the Potterverse or 
is my conscience very weird indeed?

Mojca




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  6 05:59:43 2002
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (jenP_97)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:59:43 -0000
Subject: MIL is being "optimized"...
Message-ID: <a64b8f+m4dv@eGroups.com>

Heya!

Well, my mother-in-law is getting a pink slip and a "package" tomorrow
at her job (the higher-ups call it being "optimized" ... sister-in-law
thinks that should be changed to "vaporized"), and I'm trying to think
of a way to get her to move out here.  Here's the situation; I'd like
some suggestions or feedback if possible.

MIL moved to Florida to be near a friend of hers who said the job
market was great.  She likes this friend (and his family) a lot, but
moved far away from all of her family, and misses them.  She's ripe 
for the persuading. ;)  Anyway, her job was good, but never very 
secure after the first 6 months (she works for a tech company - cell
phones, actually), and she's been pretty sure the axe was going to 
fall for a few months now.  Anyway, she's finally getting a visit from
her family (us, in 3 weeks), and she's really overjoyed.  It's hard 
for her kids to find the time off/money to fly anywhere other than
during the holidays, and that's when she goes out of town as well, so
nobody's seen her apartment/town/state yet.  

Hrm, this is getting to the point in a roundabout way, isn't it?

Okay.  I love my MIL.  She's a great lady, and she's been lamenting 
the fact that she can't see Ginger as often as she'd like.  In fact,
she sees her so little that Ginger's afraid of her for at least a day
after she first meets her - and that kinda hurts her feelings.  So my
hubby and I would like her to move out here.

So.

Should I try to actively persuade her to come out?  Should I send her 
a list of pros and cons (there are cons as well as pros - for example,
the likelihood of her finding a job out here is slim, though she has
much more experience/education than most around here)?  My husband and
I have both mentioned it recently, so should we just let that brief
mention sit with her for a while?  She has said she likes our town and
the people in it - I know that she could make friends and have a
"crowd" in no time.  Living expenses here are cheap (our mortgage is
less than $600/mo), and she'd be close to another of her kids as well.
 She's a smart lady - should I just butt out and let her decide?

Jen (who would love to have her MIL come out to live nearby - but not
WITH us... I'm not that stupid)




From miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au  Wed Mar  6 05:29:47 2002
From: miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au (snuffles_macgoo)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:29:47 -0000
Subject: Passive-Aggressive?
In-Reply-To: <3AF85CC0.2DDB67AA.6E93A4F5@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <a649gb+bp68@eGroups.com>

Dave asked:
> What is the meaning of 'passive-aggressive'?  It has come up on the 
main list a few times recently.

It's a hard term to get a handle on isn't it (or at least I find it 
hard) basically it is when one gives the *impression* of being 
friendly or intending to comply with a request but actually being 
hostile. You may not know you are doing it.

EG. (ummmm) I ask one of my co-workers to help me .. they say 'yes 
yes' and are all smiles about it but they actually bitch about my 
request behind my back. It's the bitching about it behind my back 
that is where the aggressive bit comes in.

It's a difficult way to opperate because you never get to say how you 
feel or address how you  feel with the person who the feelings are 
about. You just whinge a lot.

Lots of people do it when they feel disempowered, angry enough to 
whine or smolder but not enough to say 'no I don't want to do that'. 
It's generally regarded as a pretty poxy way to behave but a very 
hard habbit to break once you get into it.

hth.

storm (who is NEVER passive-aggressive - I wish!)




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Tue Mar  5 23:53:41 2002
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 18:53:41 -0500
Subject: What is choice?
Message-ID: <443935BE.1F0A7307.6E93A4F5@netscape.net>

I have a question about choice, in real life and in literature.  It arises out of something Elkins said on the main list, to the effect that she would be less impressed by Snape if he had always disliked or disagreed underneath with the Death Eaters.

How does choice work?  If there is an element of causation to choice, in what sense is it choice? If not, in what sense is it not random?

So if Snape (but this really isn't a HP issue - name any fictional character with a bit of depth) left Death Eaterism because there was a bit of good still struggling to come out then his good side was winning out and always (but for circumstance) would do - but if it was because it was Monday and so he had changed his mind is that human?

I realise I am posing two extremes, but I think the in-between is just loaded dice - the more they are loaded the less choice there is, the less they are loaded, the less meaning there is.

In short, choices are neither random nor caused - but what other alternative is there?

Incidentally, if anyone wishes to use the word 'existential' in any part of their reply to this, please do so, but only on condition that they explain what it means.

David, who has spent many hours wondering why he does things, and, if there is a reason, does that make him not accountable
-- 




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From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  6 12:24:20 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:24:20 -0000
Subject: Dursley Depreciation (was The wellsprings of human devotion)
In-Reply-To: <a64agl+tfdm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a651pk+rnfc@eGroups.com>

I wrote:
 
> > Can we throw cybertomatoes?

Anna wrote:
 
> Hmmm, I don't think that will do much to quell Harry 
> Melling's fear of being hated the world over. 

Ah, I guess not.  You could take special care to have a Dursley Actors 
Appreciation section, along the lines of "Still hate the Dursleys 
despite my best efforts to convince you otherwise?  Still, you gotta 
love Harry Melling, Fiona Shaw and Richard Griffiths for being such 
convincing Dursleys.  Let's give 'em a hand . . ." etc.  I do hope 
Harry M. has friends on the HP set.  Maybe he and Dan play cards 
together while waiting for their calls.

> Hallo, Siegfried! Hallo, Roy! ^_^

Ulp!  Don't know that reference . . . perhaps because I watch the Mike 
era almost exclusively?

Amy "Crow's the funniest" Z




From crowswolf at sympatico.ca  Wed Mar  6 14:30:54 2002
From: crowswolf at sympatico.ca (quill_and_feather)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:30:54 -0000
Subject: Dreaming about Harry
In-Reply-To: <a64fi0+fqqr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6596u+acap@eGroups.com>

Hello All!!!!


--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "racjom" <racjom at y...> wrote:
> I just woke up from a weird dream and thought I'd share.
> I dreamt that I saw the Chamber of secrets movie and Dan's changed 
so 
> much I didn't racognise him... He was all grown up! I have no idea 
> why that crept in my dreams. 
> It was the second time I dreamt something hp-related. The first 
dream 
> was from a slash fic. But I dreamt that after reading Rhysenn's IP 
> late at night so I sort of get it. Oh, well..
> 
> Has anybody else here dreamt about something from the Potterverse
or 
> is my conscience very weird indeed?
> 
> Mojca


Oddly enough, I had an HP related dream last night too. I dreamt that
 
I was standing in front of Hermione, when she is doing the feather 
scene, and she makes the feather float. She looks at me, her feather 
still up in the air, and says "You ARE the Chosen One". I reply in
the 
negative, saying that there must be some mistake, I can't be the 
chosen one. Hermione replies "Do not balk my judgment. I do not make 
mistakes. You ARE the Chosen One". At this point, I'm a little
freaked 
out, and I like Hermione, but she's starting to give me really bad 
vibes. She points her wand at a classroom window. "There is your 
quest, Chosen One." I go to the window and look out on a beautiful 
day; but there is a black cloud in the distance. "The Nothing is 
coming," Hermione says, "it must be distroyed". and I woke up.

While I realise that this is a melding together of The Matrix, HP and 
The Never Ending Story, it still freaked me out.  what do you guys 
think?? What do you suppose it means??

Huggles for Muggles,

Jamieson




From kerelsen at quik.com  Wed Mar  6 15:36:21 2002
From: kerelsen at quik.com (Bernadette M. Crumb)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:36:21 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Dreaming about Harry
References: <a64fi0+fqqr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <002d01c1c524$abc39260$a621b0d8@kerelsen>


----- Original Message -----

> Has anybody else here dreamt about something from the
Potterverse or
> is my conscience very weird indeed?

Oh yes!  In fact, that's how some of my best scenes in my fics
are developed... Like last night I had one that featured a truly
evil Draco Malfoy and it clarified a character motivation that
was lacking in my current WIP... I've also had some fun ones
about getting a job helping develop wares for Fred and George's
joke shop...

None romantically based--that I can remember, at any rate! :)

Bernadette






From bludger_witch at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  6 16:05:45 2002
From: bludger_witch at yahoo.com (Dinah)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 17:05:45 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Diana Gabaldon
References: <a62ta4+crmj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001801c1c528$ca22b340$449607d5@Dinah>

Trina, desperate for a good book wrote
> So now what do I read?

I'd recommend the Amelia Peabody books by Elizabeth Peters. Anything by
Peters is good. Crimi-mysteries with a twist - and a great heroine and neat
background information.

D**


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From crowswolf at sympatico.ca  Wed Mar  6 16:45:01 2002
From: crowswolf at sympatico.ca (quill_and_feather)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:45:01 -0000
Subject: Diana Gabaldon
In-Reply-To: <a62ta4+crmj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a65h2d+v4j6@eGroups.com>

Hey all...


--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "triner2001" <triner918 at a...> wrote:

> > 
> 
> Diana Gabaldon's latest in the series "The Fiery Cross" has just 
been 
> released, BTW.  I had just started a series re-read when I found it 
at 
> the book store.  Of course, I then had to read the other three 
before 
> I could start on it!  Just finished it last week, while watching the 
> Olympic Closing Ceremonies.
> 
> So now what do I read?
> 
> Trina


You have read Drums of Autumn, haven't you? Tha'ts the fourth one, and 
The Firey Cross is the fifth...

Jamieson




From jaffa276 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar  6 18:43:46 2002
From: jaffa276 at yahoo.co.uk (jaffa276)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:43:46 -0000
Subject: Shots
Message-ID: <a65o12+udkm@eGroups.com>


I was reading today about a hero who 'owed allegiance only to a $20 
bill and a fifth of bourbon' the fifth I assume referred to 1/5 of a 
gill that used to be used in the UK as a single measure of spirits 
until they introduced all this metric stuff and nicked a few 
millilitres off a shot.  A gill being 1/4 pint, a single was 1/20th 
pint thus 28.4ml (now 25ml to a single).  

This guy was obviously in the states though, and A US pint is less 
than a UK pint - I think 16fl.oz. so (assuming fl.oz. to be the same) 
is 16/20 UK pint i.e. 454ml thus a fifth of a gill is only 22.7 ml 
(20% less than the old UK version).  Do you all have really tiny 
glasses? Or do you just drink doubles? Or is my maths wrong?

In Ireland incidentally, a shot is 35ml... this is only a problem if 
someone makes you a cocktail with five of them in it (7 UK shots, or 
um, a quarter of a bottle.) I couldn't finish it :(

-Ben. 




From catalyna_99 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  6 19:05:45 2002
From: catalyna_99 at yahoo.com (Cat)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:05:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Shots
In-Reply-To: <a65o12+udkm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020306190545.74836.qmail@web10707.mail.yahoo.com>

In America, shot glasses are limited to a maximum of
two ounces in volume and strictly less than three
inches in height. Minimum capacity is one ounce and
the shortest height is 1-3/4 inches. Shot glasses
normally tapper out at the top. 1 oz = 30 ml.  
Or I found this information from Ask Jeeves. 

 
Common Measurements for Alcoholic Beverages 
"pony shot" 0.5 jigger; 0.75 fluid ounces 
"shot" 0.666 jigger; 1 fluid ounce 
"large shot" 1.25 ounces 

"jigger" 1.5 shots; 1.5 fluid ounces 
pint 16 shots; 0.625 fifths 
fifth 25.6 shots; 25.6 ounces; 1.6 pints; 0.8 quarts;
0.75706 liters 
quart 32 shots; 32 ounces; 1.25 fifths  
magnum 2 quarts; 2.49797 wine bottles  
bottle wine 0.800633 quarts; 0.7577 liters  

Hope this helps.

Cat


--- jaffa276 <jaffa276 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I was reading today about a hero who 'owed
> allegiance only to a $20 
> bill and a fifth of bourbon' the fifth I assume
> referred to 1/5 of a 
> gill that used to be used in the UK as a single
> measure of spirits 
> until they introduced all this metric stuff and
> nicked a few 
> millilitres off a shot.  A gill being 1/4 pint, a
> single was 1/20th 
> pint thus 28.4ml (now 25ml to a single).  
> 
> This guy was obviously in the states though, and A
> US pint is less 
> than a UK pint - I think 16fl.oz. so (assuming
> fl.oz. to be the same) 
> is 16/20 UK pint i.e. 454ml thus a fifth of a gill
> is only 22.7 ml 
> (20% less than the old UK version).  Do you all have
> really tiny 
> glasses? Or do you just drink doubles? Or is my
> maths wrong?
> 
> In Ireland incidentally, a shot is 35ml... this is
> only a problem if 
> someone makes you a cocktail with five of them in it
> (7 UK shots, or 
> um, a quarter of a bottle.) I couldn't finish it :(
> 
> -Ben. 
> 
> 


=====
Cat

Life's like a movie. Write your own ending. Keep believing, keep pretending.--Kermit the Frog

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/



From skelkins at attbi.com  Wed Mar  6 19:56:46 2002
From: skelkins at attbi.com (ssk7882)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:56:46 -0000
Subject: Hair, personality and gender
In-Reply-To: <013d01c1c29f$f893a9e0$8533c2cb@price>
Message-ID: <a65s9u+qq90@eGroups.com>

Boy.  So much for the internet, great leveller of humanity, eh?  Now 
everyone knows exactly what we all look like.

Ah well.  I will content myself with the comforting suspicion that at 
least half of us are just making it all up.  ;-)


On Hair:

Tabouli wrote:

> Ah! For some reason, I've *always* pictured you (Elkins) with long 
> hair! Is it brown and somewhat wavy as well?

Cindy chimed in:

> Funny. I got a pretty strong brown vibe on Elkins as well. I'm 
> not getting the curly/wavy vibe, though, because short wavy hair 
> has been known to drive people crazy by getting all poofy at the 
> wrong time. I don't think Elkins would have risked it. 
> Elkins?

Alas!  I may pass for leggy, but it seems that even on the internet, 
I'll never succeed in masquerading as a blond.  Do gentlemen really 
prefer them?  Do they *really* have more fun?  These questions, it 
seems, will forever go unanswered, for none but the Elect may peer 
behind the veil to catch a glimpse of the Sacred Mysteries of 
Blondness.

My hair was indeed brown, once upon a time.  Then, for quite a long 
time, it was a very dark aubergine which looked black in dim 
lighting, but which was a lovely rich purple whenever I stepped out 
into the sun.

All that, however, was before I turned twenty-one, which was when the 
premature greying gene kicked into action.  

Boy, was *that* ever a surprise!  I stood staring at myself in the 
mirror in utter bewilderment, going: "What?  But, but, but, but...but 
*no one* in my family has *ever* gone grey this young!  Has my life 
really been that stressful?  Or was it all that injudicious hair 
dying that caused this to happen?"

Then I slapped myself on the forehead, suddenly remembering that I 
was adopted.

Ah, the joys of the genetic lottery!  There's just no way of knowing 
what might lie behind door number three.  Makes life one wacky 
surprise after another.

But as for the straight/wavy issue, you two can split the pot on that 
one.  My hair is straight (indeed, some might even call it "lank") 
until it reaches somewhere right below my shoulders.  Then, 
inexplicably, it goes all wavy.  (Yeah.  I *know* that it's 
supposed to work the other way around.  I've never understood that 
either.)  So indeed, when it was short it was very very straight, but 
now that it's long, it is wavy.  

Or was, anyway.  These days, thanks to the greying thing, it's sort 
of...neither.  White hairs are wiry, and they tend stick out at these 
weird crimped angles, so the overall impression is more one of frizzy 
grizzledness, I think, than of anything else.  

Suits me fine, really: I've chosen to embrace my outer hag.  I seem 
to be growing quite a bit of a beard, too.  Bring it all on, say I!  
And bring me some small and terrified children to eat, while you're 
at it!


On Personality and Gender:

Tabouli wrote:

> In terms of socialisation, though, girls and boys are raised *so* 
> differently, and get *such* different messages about how they're 
> expected to behave, I think gender and personality are inevitably 
> going to be related (though not, I imagine, in a way which would 
> show up on an HP quiz!).  I don't mean to say that men *can't* 
> exhibit stereotypically "female" behaviour and vice versa, it's 
> more that men and women are having their behaviour measured on 
> gender-specific scales.  The sort of behaviour which might be 
> acceptable for a woman could easily be unacceptably far from the 
> norm in a man, and vice versa.  

No arguments here, although I would like to point out that you've got 
two separate dynamics operating here simultaneously: how gender 
expectations and upbringing affect ones actual behavior; and how ones 
actual behavior is then interpreted and classified by others based on 
ones physical sex.  Not that they're unrelated at *all,* of course, 
but they are slightly different phenomena.  

The visible signs of sex difference encourage other people to fixate 
on gender-appropriate behaviors and tastes, while ignoring or 
glossing over the gender-inappropriate ones.  Women have to be quite
masculine, and men quite feminine, to register as psychologically 
androgynous in face-to-face interactions.  This is, of course, part 
of the reason that it is so easy to masquerade as the opposite sex on 
the internet.  Most people are really not all that strongly gender-
aligned; they appear far more so in person, because we are trained to 
read them that way.

How others determine ones gender classification can also be highly 
context-dependent.  The lone woman in an all-male milieu, for 
example, is likely to be interpreted as far more
stereotypically "feminine" than she would be in a mixed group.  A man 
participating in a primarily woman-centered discussion of feminism
or gender issues, on the other hand, is likely to have his masculine 
traits not only fixated upon by other members of the group, but also 
deliberately pointed out to him.  Even if the individuals in question 
are really quite androgynous, they will not be interpreted as such 
within those milieu.

Physical appearance also plays a significant role.  The more obvious
individuals' secondary sex characteristics are, the more likely they
are to be gender typed in face-to-face interactions.  Women with 
large breasts, wide hips, or conventional good looks are more likely 
to be perceived as feminine; men with pronounced musculature, 
relatively coarse features, or heavy hair growth are more likely to 
be perceived as masculine.  Such people may, of course, actually *be* 
displaying less androgyny in their beliefs and their body language, 
thanks to upbringing and expectation, but even if they are not, they 
will still be perceived that way.


-- Elkins, who has noticed that she uses far more qualifiers and
waffle-words and other stereotypically feminine verbal tics 
("quite," "so," "rather," and so forth) in her writing on those 
boards where she's acknowledged her physical sex than she does on 
those where she keeps mum about whether she's a man or a woman -- and 
who now finds herself wondering which of the two is her "real" 
writing style...





From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Wed Mar  6 20:05:22 2002
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:05:22 -0000
Subject: Shots
In-Reply-To: <a65o12+udkm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a65sq2+hvll@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "jaffa276" <jaffa276 at y...> wrote:
> 
> I was reading today about a hero who 'owed allegiance only to a $20 
> bill and a fifth of bourbon' the fifth I assume referred to 1/5 of a 
> gill that used to be used in the UK as a single measure of spirits 
> until they introduced all this metric stuff and nicked a few 
> millilitres off a shot.  A gill being 1/4 pint, a single was 1/20th 
> pint thus 28.4ml (now 25ml to a single).  

A "fifth" in the US is a fifth of a gallon, a good-sized bottle.




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Wed Mar  6 20:19:20 2002
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:19:20 -0000
Subject: Passive-Aggressive?
In-Reply-To: <a649hg+df4m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a65tk8+39l5@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "saintbacchus" 
<saintbacchus at y...> wrote:
> David:
> 
> <<
> What is the meaning of 'passive-aggressive'? It has come
> up on the main list a few times recently.
> >>
> 
> In reference to Ron and Molly, I assume? "Passive-
> aggressive" refers to a pattern of behavior (or
> personality) where, instead of standing up for oneself,
> a person takes abuse quietly and gets revenge secretly.
>

I raised it a while back in regard to Remus Lupin. Some of his 
behavior, eg not telling what he knows about Sirius, not handing 
in the map, forgetting to take the potion, ridiculing Snape behind 
his back, assigning the vampire essay (if that was a dig at 
Snape) seemed  P-A to me. There's also the matter of his 
sneaking out in the MWPP days, though juveniles are not 
supposed to be P-A. 

Pippin, hoping the armchair is nice and roomy




From macloudt at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  6 20:31:07 2002
From: macloudt at hotmail.com (Mary Jennings)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:31:07 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] MIL is being "optimized"...
Message-ID: <F177SlIZaoRdITblCBA0000287e@hotmail.com>

Jen said:

>Well, my mother-in-law is getting a pink slip and a "package" tomorrow
>at her job (the higher-ups call it being "optimized" ... sister-in-law
>thinks that should be changed to "vaporized"), and I'm trying to think
>of a way to get her to move out here.  Here's the situation; I'd like
>some suggestions or feedback if possible.

<snip! snip! snip!>

>Should I try to actively persuade her to come out(...) She's a smart lady - 
>should I just butt out and let her decide?

Ooh, giving advice!  My favourite pastime...and it's actually solicited this 
time ;)

First of all, congratualtions on having a fab MIL.  Mine lives 2 blocks 
away, and hasn't spoken to me for 18 months.  The way I look at it, this 
situation saves me a lot of aggrivation and unnecessary grief.  Anyway...

Obviously I don't know your MIL, so I don't know if she would see a pros and 
cons list as helpful advice or unnecessary meddling.  Perhaps you could use 
the 'ol guilt thing (which mothers tend to use on us kids) and tell her 
that, now she's been "optimized" (which loser thought up *that* term?) she 
may want to consider moving back closer to home.  Wouldn't it be great to 
see Ginger a few times a week?  And our town really is lovely, lots of nice 
people, etc.  Gentle poking and prodding, in other words.  It's quite 
possible that some almost nonchalante suggestions will get her to think 
about it, if she isn't doing so already.

Hope this helps.  If not, just borrow some cybertomatoes from Amy and throw 
them in my direction.

Mary Ann
(who has some choice words for *her* MIL, but this is a family show)

_________________________________________________________________
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From dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  6 22:49:18 2002
From: dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com (Elizabeth Sager)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:49:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: HP Dreams and books books books
In-Reply-To: <1015445384.4789.44790.m8@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020306224918.7040.qmail@web20410.mail.yahoo.com>

Jamieson wrote:
<<Oddly enough, I had an HP related dream last night
too. I dreamt that
 
I was standing in front of Hermione, when she is doing
the feather 
scene, and she makes the feather float. She looks at
me, her feather 
still up in the air, and says "You ARE the Chosen
One". I reply in
the 
negative, saying that there must be some mistake, I
can't be the 
chosen one. Hermione replies "Do not balk my judgment.
I do not make 
mistakes. You ARE the Chosen One". At this point, I'm
a little
freaked 
out, and I like Hermione, but she's starting to give
me really bad 
vibes. She points her wand at a classroom window.
"There is your 
quest, Chosen One." I go to the window and look out on
a beautiful 
day; but there is a black cloud in the distance. "The
Nothing is 
coming," Hermione says, "it must be distroyed". and I
woke up.

While I realise that this is a melding together of The
Matrix, HP and 
The Never Ending Story, it still freaked me out.  what
do you guys 
think?? What do you suppose it means??>>

Well, I'm no Trelawney (in fact, I'm probably better
at this than her, but I would say that there's an
obstacle that you need to get past, and since Hermione
was telling you that, perhaps it will have something
to do with intellect or academics? Maybe not?

I think I'll just stick to reading horoscopes.

I had a dream once, where I was on a baseball field.
Charlie Brown was on the mound, Schroder was behind
the plate, Lucy and Snoopy were in the outfield, and
they wouldn't let me play. :( I had a slightly HP
related dream once...it involved being chased by a
sneezing dragon while Charlie Weasley laughed. I was
feeling pretty indignant. Interpretation, anyone?

Trina, wanting a good read, wrote:
> So now what do I read?
I just got finished with "The Mists of Avalon" by
Marion Zimmer Bradley and "The Hobbit" by J.R.R.
Tolkien. On my list is:
LOTR trilogy by J.R.R. Tolkien
"Rose Red" by Stephen King
"The Last Unicorn" by Peter S. Beagle
"Ragtime" by someone I can't remember
"Hamlet" by William Shakespeare
"Catcher in the Rye" by J.D. Salinger

That's just the very top of the list. ;) (I really got
into a listmaking mood the other day, and I found out
that I want to visit near 30 locations in 20
countries.)

Liz

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From catlady at wicca.net  Wed Mar  6 05:43:05 2002
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:43:05 -0000
Subject: Passive-Aggressive?
In-Reply-To: <3AF85CC0.2DDB67AA.6E93A4F5@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <a64a9a+evlh@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., dfrankiswork at n... wrote:

> What is the meaning of 'passive-aggressive'? 

This is a *fabulous* dictionary resource: 
http://www.onelook.com/index.html

>From it, I found that Harcourt Academic Press Dictionary of Science 
and Technology says: "passive-aggressive   Psychology. displaying 
aggression in an indirect manner, without anger or confrontation." 

and American Heritage? Dictionary of the English Language says "Of, 
relating to, or having a personality disorder characterized by 
habitual passive resistance to demands for adequate performance in 
occupational or social situations, as by procrastination, 
stubbornness, sullenness, and inefficiency."  

Example: Donna was working nights at some awful job while going to 
college days to become an RN and supporting her husband, Sam, who was 
supposed to be job-hunting. She was applying for better jobs and got 
an interview! It was the morning after a day of Big Exams at school. 
Her one Nice Office Dress was in the laundry. Sam offered to do the 
laundry while she was at work the night below and he did put it into 
the washing machine in the apartment building's laundry room. Then he 
forgot all about it -- "I just forgot" is probably THE motto of 
passive-aggression -- and she came home from work at 2-ish in the 
morning to find that her dress was wet and crumpled in a washing 
machine in a laundry that had been locked (on schedule -- it was not 
some kind of surprise) at midnight and wouldn't unlocked until 8AM, 
by which time she had to already be en route.




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Thu Mar  7 01:39:55 2002
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:55 +1100
Subject: Hairy hijinks, personality permutations, Don't Boys Cry?
Message-ID: <007101c1c579$31712d60$b453dccb@price>

[before I start my hijinks, a quick note to storm: good to hear you're feeling better.  I was sending positive vibes up the Hume (Australian highway reference) to you.  How was the Mardi Gras?  Never been, though I (quite accidentally, though fortuitously) was in Amsterdam for the 1998 Gay Games, where they had a parade of floats down the main canal!  I have some very lurid photographs...]

Elkins:
> Alas!  I may pass for leggy, but it seems that even on the internet, 
I'll never succeed in masquerading as a blond.  Do gentlemen really 
prefer them?  Do they *really* have more fun?  These questions, it 
seems, will forever go unanswered, for none but the Elect may peer 
behind the veil to catch a glimpse of the Sacred Mysteries of 
Blondness.<

Hahaa!  *Two* of my favorite philias (well, you can have phobias, why not philias?  (Philiae?)), hair *and* colour, in holy unity!  A fine thing, this OT list.  Wise indeed, this Elkins.  However...

...fie!  Since when have only the Elect had access to the Sacred Mysteries of Blondness?  Non-blondes worldwide (some as far afield and unlikely as Greece and Japan) have been sampling the joys of artificially induced Blondness for centuries!  Of course, some may argue that only those whose hair emerges blond from the root should gain entry to the sanctum, but nonetheless.  A genuinely golden-haired globe-trotting friend of mine returned last year from a stint in Japan with the amused news that black Japanese locks are no longer any obstacle to the blonde bombshell look, and indeed the Look of the Season seemed to be blonde hair, six inch platforms, fake tan and white eyeshadow... (mine not to fathom the ways of Japanese street fashion).

However!  Perhaps we exotic dark damsels and riotous redheads and beautiful brunettes cannot sample the fruits of true fair hair *first* hand, but by jingo we can pump second-hand information out of our flaxen sisters!  Aren't there any other sinister social scientists out there who do this sort of thing?  (Mary Ann?)  Whenever I meet someone who has sampled from both the Blonde and the Non-Blonde Barrel, I am swift to manoevre the conversation around to What Difference It Makes.  I've also interrogated many a straight man on the subject.  The answers are remarkably consistent... it's not precisely that blondes have more fun, or are *necessarily* preferable (though a few male interviewees went a little wistful here), it's that they stand out because their hair catches the light, and hence get a lot more immediate attention from men.

(This is in predominantly WASP countries, of course... in countries where the populace is almost 100% naturally dark, blondes are routinely mobbed, hassled and pursued.  In Greece, for example, I observed that the local men were ignoring simply stunning local brunettes in favour of what to me appeared to be very plain blonde tourists.  Being me, I asked some Greek men about this, wondering if it was just a "northern tourists of loose morals unlike good local girls" stereotype, and they replied that there was an element of this, but it was more that Greek think blonde hair is beautiful and unusual and a blonde foreign woman is the ultimate trophy).

There was also some evidence of buying into the dumb blonde stereotype celebrated in a thousand blonde jokes.  My most helpful informants in this department were two natural blondes, one a pale, pretty team leader in a call centre where I worked for a grim year (Welcome to Telstra Paging, this is Tabouli, your pager number please....  AARRRGH), one a brilliant but scarily temperamental woman who taught me Japanese for a year or so.

The first informant had done the full tricolour: she'd dyed it dark brown *and* red as well as living most of her life as a natural light blonde.  Being rather stunning, she attracted men in all her incarnations, but noticed definite differences.  Blondes, she said, definitely *do* have more fun.  Heads turn when you're blonde in a way they don't when your hair's dark, because your hair stands out.  You attract men looking for fun, and they expect you to be flirty and ditzy and bubbly, and easy to seduce; if you make an intelligent comment they don't know how to cope with it.  OTOH, when I was dark, they seemed to expect more intelligence from me; I attracted a different type of men, more intellectual, looking for an interesting conversation rather than just someone to flirt with.  As a redhead it changed again... I attracted men five or ten or even more years older than me looking for a fight.  (?)

I wouldn't have dared to quiz the second informant in this way (if I caught her in the wrong mood she'd've bitten my head off), but on one of her friendly days, she volunteered some information which spoke volumes.  Ever since I'd met her, her long, heavily sprayed and styled hair had been an obviously dyed jet black (rather Gothic against her pale eyes and skin, which I'm sure wasn't the effect she was aiming at).  That day in class, one of my fellow students had dyed her black Chinese hair a sort of burgundy colour.  After class, my teacher had one of her warm chatty moments, and commented to me that it was nice to see this girl (she was 15 or so) getting a bit more confidence in herself and dyeing her hair.  I mused that this was an interesting idea (hair dye=confidence?) and daringly asked whether her own black hair was linked to confidence, what colour is it naturally?  She laughed triumphantly, said she got the roots done every fortnight (!), so I wouldn't be able to tell, but it was absolutely crucial to dye it, because she was a natural blonde.  But what's wrong with that?  I asked, mystified.  Oh, no-one takes you seriously if you're a blonde, she said, in almost haughty, offended tones, implying I was being facetious to imply there could be any other reason.  (??)

My.  (OK, so that Japanese teacher was a seriously strange woman in many ways, but nonetheless).  So, everyone, come clean, come clean.  Any thoughts on hair colour?  Have you dyed your hair and met with dramatically different reactions?  Do you have any associations with particular hair colours?

Elkins:
> But as for the straight/wavy issue, you two can split the pot on that 
one.  My hair is straight (indeed, some might even call it "lank") 
until it reaches somewhere right below my shoulders.  Then, 
inexplicably, it goes all wavy.  (Yeah.  I *know* that it's 
supposed to work the other way around.  I've never understood that 
either.)  So indeed, when it was short it was very very straight, but 
now that it's long, it is wavy.<

Strangely enough, my mental image of you has always been of your back!  Whenever I read your posts, I get a picture of a back, dressed in a blouse made of a sort of shiny fabric, shaking with laughter, and with long wavy brown hair spilling down it.  (don't ask me why...)

Elkins:
> No arguments here, although I would like to point out that you've got 
two separate dynamics operating here simultaneously: how gender 
expectations and upbringing affect ones actual behavior; and how ones 
actual behavior is then interpreted and classified by others based on 
ones physical sex.  Not that they're unrelated at *all,* of course, 
but they are slightly different phenomena.  <

Ah, but that was what I was trying to say by adding:

"The sort of behaviour which might be acceptable for a woman could easily be unacceptably far from the norm in a man, and vice versa.  And as anyone who's been marginalised knows, it affects the personality a lot."

That is, even if you accept that predispositions to certain behaviours and attitudes are distributed evenly across people of both genders, this does not mean a man born with a particular set of predispositions will develop the same personality as a woman growing up with an identical set.  Not at all.  This is because of the two "dynamics" you mention: gender socialisation and the influence of this on how already-socialised people interpret a person's behaviour.

Imagine a little girl who cries easily when her feelings are hurt.  She might be considered annoyingly sooky by some, but in general people are likely to be tolerant and comforting: she's a bit on the weepy side of the accepted female norm, but not too far: obviously she's just gentle and sensitive.  Then imagine a little boy who cries just as easily for the same reasons.  Are people likely to react in the same way?  Even if his well-meaning parents or teachers strive to give him the message that it's OK for boys to cry, there are *sure* to be some influences in his life which tell him otherwise - the other children in his class, the television.  He is a lot further than the little girl from the accepted norm for his gender, and this is bound to cause him grief.  Boys are "meant" to be tough.  What a pathetic sissy, what a wimp, what a wuss, what a snivelling Mummy's boy!  Be a man, my son!

I'm not saying it's a good thing (which it certainly isn't), but aren't these two children likely to develop very different personalities and behaviour?  The girl will probably grow up feeling that expressing herself through tears when she's upset is OK, and will probably continue to do so, considering herself sensitive and gentle; the boy will learn that expressing himself through tears opens him up to social ridicule and will struggle to control them, considering himself weak and pathetic.

This particular issue has always haunted me.  I have never, ever seen my father cry, not even at his father's funeral; my brother boasted to me that he hadn't cried since he was 13, *except* when my grandfather died (he confessed grudgingly, hastening to add that it was only a few tears alone in his room).  I, on the other hand, am soggy as a wet tissue.  And terribly, terribly susceptible to a man in tears.  Too much so, I sometimes think.  Maybe I need to borrow a leaf from the Tough Book of Sin D.C. ...

Tabouli.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  7 02:48:50 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 02:48:50 -0000
Subject: Dursley Depreciation and MST3k
In-Reply-To: <a651pk+rnfc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a66kei+907h@eGroups.com>

I'm a little incoherent tonight, so bear with me!

Amy writes:

<<
Ah, I guess not. You could take special care to have a
Dursley Actors Appreciation section, along the lines of
"Still hate the Dursleys despite my best efforts to
convince you otherwise? Still, you gotta love Harry
Melling, Fiona Shaw and Richard Griffiths for being such
convincing Dursleys. Let's give 'em a hand . . ." etc.
>>

Although one could certainly make the point that you will
hate the Dursleys if the actors are doing their jobs....
The Dursleys *are* pretty awful, I just happen to like
that in a fictional character. ^_^ If they were real, I'd
be strongly tempted to slap them all silly, but as book
and movie characters, they're very fun. Shaw, Melling, and
Griffiths go a long way in making them fun, too. The other
part is my own rank speculation; while I'd be okay with
the Dursleys being cartoon villains for the whole of the
series, it's like cotton candy - insubstantial, and too
much will make you sick. I prefer to speculate that
something interesting will happen with them and turn them
into real people.

I think that Petunia is holding out on Harry, and possibly
Vernon as well. She knows more than she's letting on, and
I'm hoping she'll have either a meltdown or an epiphany
and spill the beans. Supposedly, there's going to be more
Dursley action (and a big surprise!) in book five. I can't
wait! I also can't wait for Aunt Marge to show up in the
movies. That's going to be fun.


<<
I do hope Harry M. has friends on the HP set. Maybe he and
Dan play cards together while waiting for their calls.
>>

Harry & Harry? *LOL* I hope so, too. Wouldn't it be bad to
be branded as a spoiled brat for life because of a role you
played when you were 12?


<<
Ulp!  Don't know that reference . . . perhaps because I
watch the Mike era almost exclusively?
>>

I'm not sure - I think it's only turned up in a couple of
episodes (can't remember which ones - curses!). Usually
Servo says it when characters pop up and meet unexpectedly.

Mike only? But you miss the invention exchanges! I like
Mike's riffing style better, but you gotta love such useful
inventions as Chinderwear and - God help us - Nummy Muffin
Coocolbutter. ^_^

--Anna




From coriolan at worldnet.att.net  Thu Mar  7 00:06:11 2002
From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (coriolan_cmc2001)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 00:06:11 -0000
Subject: Passive-Aggressive?
In-Reply-To: <3AF85CC0.2DDB67AA.6E93A4F5@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <a66atj+kju7@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., dfrankiswork at n... wrote:
> I have another question.
> 
> What is the meaning of 'passive-aggressive'?  It has come up on the 
main list a few times recently.
> 
Passive-aggressive was at one time a personality disorder listed by 
the APA in their Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (1987, 3rd 
Edition, Revised), though it was dropped from the 1993 Fourth Edition 
(maybe the PA's refused to return the questionnaires).


Here's a website that will give you more than you could possibly want 
to know about it:

http://www.toad.net/~arcturus/dd/papd.htm

But for the rest of us, here's how the DSM defines P-A:
 
?	passive resistance to fulfilling social and occupational 
tasks through procrastination and inefficiency;
?	complaints of being misunderstood, unappreciated, and 
victimized by others;
?	sullenness, irritability, and argumentativeness in response 
to expectations;
?	angry and pessimistic attitudes toward a variety of events;
?	unreasonable criticism and scorn toward those in authority;
?	envy and resentment toward those who are more fortunate;
?	self-definition as luckless in life and an inclination to 
whine and grumble about being jinxed;
?	alternating behavior between hostile assertion of personal 
autonomy and dependent contrition 

  - CMC






From ewe2 at can.org.au  Thu Mar  7 03:05:26 2002
From: ewe2 at can.org.au (Sean Dwyer)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 14:05:26 +1100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Hairy hijinks, personality permutations, Don't Boys Cry?
In-Reply-To: <007101c1c579$31712d60$b453dccb@price>
References: <007101c1c579$31712d60$b453dccb@price>
Message-ID: <20020307030526.GA23012@can.org.au>

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 12:39:55PM +1100, Tabouli wrote:
[snip discussion of blondes, brunettes and redheads]

I'm being careful here, so I'll just restrict myself to quoting Thomas Dolby's
AirHead: "People say she's a dumb blonde, but they don't know she dyes her
hair" <quiet cough>.


> I'm not saying it's a good thing (which it certainly isn't), but aren't
> these two children likely to develop very different personalities and
> behaviour?  The girl will probably grow up feeling that expressing herself
> through tears when she's upset is OK, and will probably continue to do so,
> considering herself sensitive and gentle; the boy will learn that expressing
> himself through tears opens him up to social ridicule and will struggle to
> control them, considering himself weak and pathetic.
>
> This particular issue has always haunted me.  I have never, ever seen my
> father cry, not even at his father's funeral; my brother boasted to me that
> he hadn't cried since he was 13, *except* when my grandfather died (he
> confessed grudgingly, hastening to add that it was only a few tears alone in
> his room).  I, on the other hand, am soggy as a wet tissue.  And terribly,
> terribly susceptible to a man in tears.  Too much so, I sometimes think.
> Maybe I need to borrow a leaf from the Tough Book of Sin D.C. ...
 
This issue concerns me too, since I come from a long line of Men Who Don't Cry
Visibly. When I was a child, I forgot this maxim and was punished accordingly
by parents, schoolmates and teachers, all of whom were male. I have only known
my father to cry on one occasion: when he telephoned his parents to tell them
Mum had died (I didn't actually *see* this, but hearing it was bad enough). It
was a huge shock.

But since then I have kept the tears to private emotional pain, with the
occasional drunken embarrassment thrown in. I note that the tears are just as
much due to the excruciating pain of a swollen Adam's Apple at times of
emotional stress as to the stress itself. I never understood the coughing of
fictional male characters until this experience. I wonder, Tabouli, whether
your father complained of a cold or something similar, and cleared his throat
frequently? That's a giveaway, anyway.

Is there a cure for this? Is it a problem? Depends on your perspective, but
it's something so fundamental to most malekind, you'd have to rearrange your
culture from the bottom up. I know that most Polynesian cultures don't have
this problem (there's a lot they get right, actually), if it can be defined as
one.

Sean

-- 
Sean Dwyer <ewe2 at can.org.au>
Web: http://www.geocities.com/ewe2_au/



From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Mar  6 12:49:14 2002
From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:49:14 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] MIL is being "optimized"...
References: <a64b8f+m4dv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c1c50d$53a73bc0$054786d9@monica>

Personally I think when you go and see her your husband and yourself should sit down with her and tell her straight out that you would very much like her to come and live near you. Giver her all the good reasons, like seeing her granddaughter etc and tell her you realises there would be downsides as well but that you'd be willing to assist her in any way necessary (like looking out for jobs/apartments for her while she's still in Florida and then just leave it up to her. If she really does want to move then she will, if she needs your help she'll ask. If not, well you tried but she's obviously happy where she is, or at least the perceived benefits outweigh the downside of being away from her family.

K
If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor.
http://minievil.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: jenP_97 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 5:59 AM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] MIL is being "optimized"...


  Heya!

  Well, my mother-in-law is getting a pink slip and a "package" tomorrow
  at her job (the higher-ups call it being "optimized" ... sister-in-law
  thinks that should be changed to "vaporized"), and I'm trying to think
  of a way to get her to move out here.  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Wed Mar  6 20:24:48 2002
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:24:48 -0000
Subject: JKR bans readings of HP-books on Swedish Radio for all future
Message-ID: <a65tuh+mtt5@eGroups.com>

According to several Norwegian online news-sources, J.K. Rowling has 
forbidden Swedish Radio (SR) from broadcasting readings of the Harry 
Potter-books for all future.  This follows SR having broadcast a 
reading from part of one of her books without prior request of 
permission.  However, under Swedish law, SR has acted perfectly 
legally.  Swedish law states that formerly published works may be 
broadcast without prior permission, but the broadcaster must 
afterwards pay due royalties to the copyright-holder, according to 
existing agreements with the Swedish Writers' Association.  As I 
understand it, JKR's copyrights are managed in Sweden by Tidens 
F?rlag.  Rowling has stated that she had moral reasons for acting as 
she did.

This story has not yet appeared in English, but I expect it to turn 
up at http://www.aftenposten.no/english/ shortly.  

Best regards
Christian Stub?




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu Mar  7 11:24:24 2002
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 06:24:24 -0500
Subject: OOP length
Message-ID: <419AFF52.19C1CBD4.6E93A4F5@netscape.net>

Here's a question to while away the time.

We have speculated on the date that Book 5 will come out, with most of the focus on July this year.  There is another burning question which will affect us all:  how long will it be?

Each of the books has been longer than the previous one, and the differences have themselves been increasing.  (It's difficult for me in the UK to be precise about this as Bloomsbury decided to print GOF in a larger font than the other three books - what did Scholastic do?)

OTOH, I believe JKR said that OOP would be shorter than GOF.

Thoughts?  Bets?  Do we want a poll?

David
-- 




__________________________________________________________________
Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop at Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/

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From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  7 12:04:07 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 12:04:07 -0000
Subject: Lunar phases and eclipses
Message-ID: <a67kvn+1k0h@eGroups.com>

Barb wrote, on the main list:

> 2) This means that if the exact time that the earth stops
 obstructing the light of the sun from striking the moon--even a
 little--

Actually, as Tex said, what you are describing there is a full lunar 
eclipse, which arises from the earth blocking the sun's light from the 
moon.  This happens only rarely, when the moon is in the same plane as 
the earth and sun.  Let me explain . . . <clears throat, picks up 
chalk>

The phases of the moon are caused by how much of the side of the moon 
that we see is illuminated by the sun.  

We always see the same side of the moon regardless of where it is in 
its revolution around the earth.  Imagine the moon as the face of a 
person looking directly at you.  If the sun, moon, and earth form a 
90-degree angle, it is like that person's face being strongly 
illuminated by a light from his right side.  You will see the right 
side of his face clearly while the left side is in deep shadow--that's 
a half moon (astronomically speaking, a quarter moon--one in which we 
see half the moon).  When the person has his back to the sun, even if 
he is not blocking the sun's light, his face is cast in shadow; that's 
the new moon.

When the moon is on the far side of the earth from the sun, and is 
*not* blocked by the earth (because it is not in the same plane), we 
see a full moon.  When, as occasionally happens, the moon falls in the 
same plane as the earth and sun during this phase, we see a lunar 
eclipse.  Lunar eclipses therefore occur only during a full moon, but 
not during every full moon.

FormerEarthScienceTeacher!(andCurrentLOON!)Amy




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  7 12:06:40 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 12:06:40 -0000
Subject: OOP length
In-Reply-To: <419AFF52.19C1CBD4.6E93A4F5@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <a67l4g+qel0@eGroups.com>

David wrote:

> OTOH, I believe JKR said that OOP would be shorter than GOF.

She did (and said 7 would be huge--yay!), but that was months ago.  
Maybe the reason it's taking so long is that it grew.

Hopefully,
Amy Z




From jdumas at kingwoodcable.com  Thu Mar  7 15:13:12 2002
From: jdumas at kingwoodcable.com (Katze)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:13:12 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] OOP length
References: <419AFF52.19C1CBD4.6E93A4F5@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <3C878388.4CE4A1D8@kingwoodcable.com>

dfrankiswork at netscape.net wrote:
> 
> Here's a question to while away the time.
> 
> We have speculated on the date that Book 5 will come out, with most of the focus on July this year.  There is another burning question which will affect us all:  how long will it be?
> 
> Each of the books has been longer than the previous one, and the differences have themselves been increasing.  (It's difficult for me in the UK to be precise about this as Bloomsbury decided to print GOF in a larger font than the other three books - what did Scholastic do?)
> 
> OTOH, I believe JKR said that OOP would be shorter than GOF.
> 
> Thoughts?  Bets?  Do we want a poll?


I think she said it would be shorter than GoF. But what does that mean?
Instead of 734 pages, we get 726? I'm thinking that PoA was about the
right length. Perhaps something like that would be nice for OoP?

I really didn't notice a change in size actually. I would go compare the
size, but my GoF copy has been loaned out to a friend. I don't think
there is a difference though. 

-Katze



From devin.smither at yale.edu  Thu Mar  7 15:04:09 2002
From: devin.smither at yale.edu (uilnslcoap)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:04:09 -0000
Subject: OOP length
In-Reply-To: <419AFF52.19C1CBD4.6E93A4F5@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <a67vh9+mq25@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., dfrankiswork at n... wrote:
> Each of the books has been longer than the previous one, and the 
differences have themselves been increasing.  (It's difficult for me 
in the UK to be precise about this as Bloomsbury decided to print GOF 
in a larger font than the other three books - what did Scholastic do?)
> 

I know!  When I got the UK editions, I was really surprised by 
Bloomsbury's decision to print GoF in such a different style.  What I 
REALLY like about the UK versions is that they don't have a table of 
contents giving away chapter names.  When I got my copy of GoF on the 
release date (in America), I accidentally saw the chapter title "The 
Death Eaters."  At the time, I vaguely hoped that the death JKR 
mentioned in interviews would be taken back by these so-called Death 
Eaters (they would eat death, resurrecting the person), but thinking 
about that now, it would have tempered the sadness and ruined the 
effectiveness of it (I didn't know GoF would be as mature as it is).  
What I like about the American versions is the chapter illustrations 
and the cover illustrations.  To answer the question about 
Scholastic's print choices, they have been consistent thus far in 
size and spacing, with SS coming in at around 310 or 320, CoS (which 
is my second-favorite behind GoF and all this Chamber-bashing be 
darned) at 340 or 350, PoA at 430 or 440, and GoF at 730 or 740.

> OTOH, I believe JKR said that OOP would be shorter than GOF.
> 
> Thoughts?  Bets?  Do we want a poll?
> 

I'm guessing around 550 or 600 pages (American) for OotP, then around 
GoF-length or a tad longer for Book Six, and something like 900, 
1000, 1100, 1200 pages for Book Seven.  I'm with Amy there, the more 
the better for the final go.  I remember Rowling saying about Book 
Seven something like, "It's going to be about the length of the 
Encyclopedia Britannica because I'll want to say goodbye."  Backing 
this up is Rowling's statement that she knew GoF "would be the 
longest of the FIRST FOUR" leaving plenty of room for us Potterphiles 
to hope for ever-larger tomes.  I would certainly not be opposed to a 
900-page OotP if it happened, but I think I'll stick with my guess of 
about 550 here.  I think the long delay in the book is more related 
to Rowling's personal life (getting a husband and all) and grappling 
with more mature themes (death, hormones--not that hormones are 
mature, and just a general sense of foreboding that began in GoF and 
grew to fever pitch by the end of the book) and depth of plot (and 
hopefully revelation) than it is related to the length of the book 
(parentheses are the devil).  What do others think?

Devin




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Thu Mar  7 12:53:40 2002
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:53:40 EST5EDT
Subject: Stratford Shakespeare Festival
Message-ID: <14800F7BD4@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

Has anyone been to this festival during the fall?  

I went many years ago (1987) during July and had a 
wonderful time. We saw As You Like It, Macbeth and Othello. 
 But because of a scheduling conflict, we're unable to get 
to the festival until October this year.

I was just curious if the festival is different in the fall 
than the summer.

I'm so eager to return!  We're seeing Richard III and Romeo 
and Juliet.  I'm so excited!!!!  (Though I wish I could 
have gone last year when they did Henry V)

I love Shakespeare done well.  Then again, I love 
Shakespeare done poorly, too, because I usually end up in a 
fit of giggles.

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements


In 1419, the Council issued the famously worded decree
that Quidditch should not be played "anywhere near any place
where there is the slightest chance that a Muggle might be
watching or we'll see how well you can play whilst chained
to a dungeon wall."



From macloudt at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  7 19:11:42 2002
From: macloudt at hotmail.com (Mary Jennings)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:11:42 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Hairy hijinks and other laments
Message-ID: <F867bieLYCT4aJ6pkNz00017199@hotmail.com>

My fellow sinister social scientist Tabouli said:

<alarming snipping!>

>There was also some evidence of buying into the dumb blonde stereotype 
>celebrated in a thousand blonde jokes>

Oh, yes.  Definately.  Most naturally blonde women I've known, no matter how 
intelligent, were forever being perceived as having the intelligence of a 
houseplant by both men *and* women, no less.  Both sexes had labelled them 
as, well, easy bedding material as well.  The only blonde friend these 
labels were never applied to was a natural strawberry blonde who was built 
like a brick wall and had the attitude to match.  Most likely people 
*thought* stereotypes about her, but decided that retaining full use of 
their limbs took priority over telling her their opinions.

Even blondes from a bottle have derogatory phrases like "the peroxide's 
corroded your brain" thrown at them.  Seeing as I have blonde highlights 
myself, this is a personal pet peeve.  Like you, Elkins, I started going 
grey in my early 20's, at the front of my head, of course, and the grey 
hairs showed up beautifully against my mousy brown natural colour.  I'll 
grow out the blonde when I'm 40 or so, but I simply couldn't face having 3 
very young kids and possibly being mistaken for their grandmother.  Hey, I 
have some pride, ya know!

Then, as Tabouli touched upon, there's the supposed fiery redhead 
stereotype, the level-headed brunette, etc.  What rubbish, in my opinion.  I 
simply have to look around the schoolground before classes start to see that 
hair colour has nothing to do with a child's behaviour or intelligence; 
little whatsits come in all shapes, sizes, genders, ethnic backgrounds, and 
haircolours.  It's this endless need for grouping and classification that we 
humans fall prey to, as that's what our opinions of others we don't know 
personally are based upon.  People we "can't figure out" annoy us, so we 
look for any 'ol thing upon which to base an opinion.

Gee, I *did* retain something from my uni years!  Cool :)

Mary Ann
(feeling reasonably intelligent, despite the highlights)

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.




From ganvira at earthlink.net  Thu Mar  7 20:26:33 2002
From: ganvira at earthlink.net (Terry van Ettinger)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:26:33 -0800
Subject: [HPforGrownups] JKR's Plot hole
References: <a683b8+nu4m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <003201c1c616$5f8338e0$0797cd18@charterpipeline.com>

Taking this off the on-topic list, I completely agree with you there!  I
liked Lupin.  He was so easy to work with as an instructor, and not much
seemed to phase him.  I always liked the way he dealt with Peeves at the
beginning of PoA.  If he hadn't been found out, and/or if someone hadn't
freaked out, he would have made a perfect permanent DADA teacher!

Terry, who is running the risk of coughing her head off.
> *to JKR:  please bring back Remus Lupin...





From moongirlk at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  7 20:33:34 2002
From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 20:33:34 -0000
Subject: Hairy hijinks, personality permutations, Don't Boys Cry?
In-Reply-To: <007101c1c579$31712d60$b453dccb@price>
Message-ID: <a68iqv+an7j@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tabouli" <tabouli at u...> wrote:
<<So, everyone, come clean, come clean.  Any thoughts on hair 
colour?  Have you dyed your hair and met with dramatically different 
reactions?  Do you have any associations with particular hair colours?
>>

I have a tendency to treat my hair as a toy.  My natural color, which 
is my current color for the last few months, is a light, mousey 
(mousy?) brown with red bits that show up under the right 
circumstances, but it's always been too boring for me.  

As a small child I desperately wanted black hair for awhile, and 
there have been momentary flashbacks to that desire over the years, 
but I have a pale, blotchy-red complexion which cries out to the 
contrary, so I've never actually tried it.  

I have however tried blonde highlights (but not blonde-blonde), been 
a redhead, gone darker brown, and at one point in highschool had 
purple hair.  I've also done just about every length and style I 
could think of, including the skater-girl look, with hair buzzed 
almost off from the nape halfway up, and hanging straight to my chin 
over that (not a good look for me of the fine limp hair), the boy-
syle bowl cut, long-long (which I did because I saw a girl put her 
hair up in a bun using a pencil and suddenly *had* to do the same) 
and many lengths in-between.  

So, all you evil social scientists out there might think I'd have 
some insight, but boys and then men have pretty much all responded to 
me the same way no matter what my hair color, length or style (that 
way generally being either not at all, or as their best pal, to whom 
they complain about other girls).  The only exception being the 
purple, during which time some boys pointed and laughed while certain 
few others acted like they'd suddenly learned some kinky secret about 
me, touched it a lot and asked questions like what flavor was it.  
Maybe I should've tried blonde-blonde, but I doubt it would have made 
much of a difference.  I think pudgy cancels out blonde in the "more 
fun" department, so I might not be the best experimental subject.  

kimberly
who is beginning to wonder whether purple is a viable option now that 
she's forced to consider herself a grown-up.




From ganvira at earthlink.net  Thu Mar  7 20:44:31 2002
From: ganvira at earthlink.net (Terry van Ettinger)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:44:31 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Hairy hijinks, personality permutations, Don't Boys Cry?
References: <a68iqv+an7j@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <005f01c1c618$e24b8780$0797cd18@charterpipeline.com>

Hey, if you like purple, go for it!  To hell with what the world says!  I
went with the nonexistent solution and like it that way!  My family took
forever to adapt, but they finally did.  '-)

Terry
> who is beginning to wonder whether purple is a viable option now that
> she's forced to consider herself a grown-up.





From racjom at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Mar  7 22:07:36 2002
From: racjom at yahoo.co.uk (racjom)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:07:36 -0000
Subject: HP Dreams and books books books
In-Reply-To: <20020306224918.7040.qmail@web20410.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a68ob8+k653@eGroups.com>

> Jamieson wrote:
> <<Oddly enough, I had an HP related dream last night
> too. 
Yay! I'm not the only one :)

 Liz:
> I had a dream once, where I was on a baseball field.
> Charlie Brown was on the mound, Schroder was behind
> the plate, Lucy and Snoopy were in the outfield, and
> they wouldn't let me play. :( I had a slightly HP
> related dream once...it involved being chased by a
> sneezing dragon while Charlie Weasley laughed. I was
> feeling pretty indignant. Interpretation, anyone?
> 
I'm not very good at interpreting dreams but I'll try. Perhaps you're 
in a situation you don't want to be in and someone is just enjoying 
him/herself by observing you while you're in trouble although they 
could help you out of it?

Liz:
> Trina, wanting a good read, wrote:
> > So now what do I read?
> I just got finished with "The Mists of Avalon" by
> Marion Zimmer Bradley and "The Hobbit" by J.R.R.
> Tolkien. On my list is:
> LOTR trilogy by J.R.R. Tolkien
> "Rose Red" by Stephen King
> "The Last Unicorn" by Peter S. Beagle
> "Ragtime" by someone I can't remember
> "Hamlet" by William Shakespeare
> "Catcher in the Rye" by J.D. Salinger

Catcher in the Rye is wonderful! I read it 3 or 4 times.
 I had to struggle through LOTR and The last unicorn though. But 
that's just me. 

One of my favourite authors is Terry Pratchett. I started reading his 
Discworls series in the summer and am loving it! So funny :) I don't 
normally laugh out loud to books, but I do when reading this stuff. A 
lot. Let's see - the best of the ones I read so far: The Reaper Man, 
The Moving Pictures, Guards!Guards!, Maurice and His Educated 
Rodents, The Last Hero, Feet of Clay. Right now I'm reading Men at 
Arms and it's been great so far.

When I'm feeling in a need for some 'more serious reading' I take 
something from Dostojevski. But I haven't felt like it in a long time.

Mojca





From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  7 23:45:18 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 23:45:18 -0000
Subject: Gormenghast?
Message-ID: <a68u2e+2166@eGroups.com>

I was wondering if anybody had seen/read this series.
See, this is applicable because there are three
Harry Potter actors in it: Zoe Wanamaker, Fiona Shaw,
and Richard Griffiths.

Because of that, I keep running across it when I'm
looking for Potter stuff, and, well, it looks utterly
fascinating. Just look at this site and try not to get
excited:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/gormenghast/home.html

So what I want to know, before I run out and buy the
DVD is, is it good or just pretty and well-cast?

Any info would be greatly appreciated!

--Anna




From voicelady at mymailstation.com  Thu Mar  7 23:06:40 2002
From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:06:40 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Gormenghast?
Message-ID: <id.07032002190640.00000@FPE>

Well, it is visually beautiful (it looks exactly as I had imagined it), but the movie, like the book, is rather bizarro-fantasy-is.  But *I* loved it, if my recommendation means anything to you.  Stephen Fry is a complete hoot.  Griffiths is very very creepy.  And Fiona Shaw, IMNSHO, walks away with the whole show.

Jeralyn, the Voicelady
--------------------------------------------------------------
I was wondering if anybody had seen/read this series.



From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Thu Mar  7 23:00:27 2002
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (cindysphynx)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 23:00:27 -0000
Subject: OOP length
In-Reply-To: <419AFF52.19C1CBD4.6E93A4F5@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <a68reb+883d@eGroups.com>

David wrote:

> We have speculated on the date that Book 5 will come out, with 
>most of the focus on July this year.  There is another burning 
>question which will affect us all:  how long will it be?
 
<snip>

> Thoughts?  Bets?  Do we want a poll?

Ooooh, what fun!  Let's do some sort of pool or poll or database or 
something.  We could use the UK version as the standard.  My UK GoF 
is 636.  I don't think JKR will be able to restrain herself, and OoP 
will wind up being even longer.  

So my guess is . . . 728.

My U.S. GoF is a good deal longer, and I actually prefer the text in 
that version because it is more spread out.  Maybe it's an age 
thing, but my eyes balk at the print in the UK GoF.

Cindy (who thinks one of the math majors ought to do some cool 
projection of the length of Book 7 based on the length of the first 
four books correlated against the number of months JKR took to write 
each book, and who is guessing the projection would put Book 7 at 
1,421 pages)




From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Mar  7 23:49:05 2002
From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:49:05 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Gormenghast?
References: <a68u2e+2166@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000901c1c632$abe28c60$af7686d9@monica>

I saw it. It was absolutely fantastic ... It's out on DVD?
Ooooh. Cool.

K
If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor.
http://minievil.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: saintbacchus 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 11:45 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Gormenghast?


  I was wondering if anybody had seen/read this series.
  See, this is applicable because there are three
  Harry Potter actors in it: Zoe Wanamaker, Fiona Shaw,
  and Richard Griffiths.

  Because of that, I keep running across it when I'm
  looking for Potter stuff, and, well, it looks utterly
  fascinating. Just look at this site and try not to get
  excited:

  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/gormenghast/home.html

  So what I want to know, before I run out and buy the
  DVD is, is it good or just pretty and well-cast?

  Any info would be greatly appreciated!

  --Anna


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  ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

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From voicelady at mymailstation.com  Thu Mar  7 23:33:57 2002
From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:33:57 EDT
Subject: The Eyre Affair
Message-ID: <id.07032002193357.00000@FPE>

For anyone who's interested in a really good read, I'm currently engrossed in "The Eyre Affair" by Jasper Fforde.  It's only recently come out, so it is currently only available in hardback.  The protagonist is a literary detective named Thursday Next, and it's business as usual "that is, until someone begins murdering characters from works of literature.  When this madman plucks Jane Eyre from the pages of Brontee's novel Thursday faces the challenge of her career."  (This quote is taken directly from the book jacket.

So far, my favorite scene is when the author applies a Rocky Horror Picture Show theme to a performance of Richard III.

It really is quite delightful and I'm enjoying it immensely.

Jeralyn, the Voicelady



From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com  Fri Mar  8 00:56:43 2002
From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:56:43 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] What is choice?
References: <443935BE.1F0A7307.6E93A4F5@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <013701c1c63c$1e10a7f0$0200a8c0@shasta>

David rattled his existential riddles,

> How does choice work?  If there is an element
> of causation to choice, in what sense is it choice?
> If not, in what sense is it not random?
>
> So if Snape (but this really isn't a HP issue - name
> any fictional character with a bit of depth) left Death
> Eaterism because there was a bit of good still struggling
> to come out then his good side was winning out and
> always (but for circumstance) would do - but if it was
> because it was Monday and so he had changed his
> mind is that human?

Bother. Isn't anyone going to take a chomp at this? I would, but
it's 1:48 am and the only choice I have write now is whether I
want to sleep in my chair or my bed.

Oh well ... at least I can contribute a nice URL to define, by
example, the word "existential" as used in reference to
philosophical conundra: http://www.drachenstein.ch/HuhnENG.html.

Baaaaaa!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, who probably isn't making
sense, which, considering the time, makes sense. tootle-oo!)
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that
may not have been bravery...."



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From ganvira at earthlink.net  Fri Mar  8 00:04:37 2002
From: ganvira at earthlink.net (Terry van Ettinger)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:04:37 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Gormenghast?
References: <a68u2e+2166@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000d01c1c634$d6755fa0$0797cd18@charterpipeline.com>

I saw part of one of the Gormenghast trilogy on PBS once, and it seemed
pretty interesting.  I've alsi read half of the first book, and the
characters are pretty accurately cast in my opinion.  I'd say it's worth
getting.

Terry
----- Original Message -----
From: "saintbacchus" <saintbacchus at yahoo.com>
To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 3:45 PM
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Gormenghast?


> I was wondering if anybody had seen/read this series.
> See, this is applicable because there are three
> Harry Potter actors in it: Zoe Wanamaker, Fiona Shaw,
> and Richard Griffiths.
>
> Because of that, I keep running across it when I'm
> looking for Potter stuff, and, well, it looks utterly
> fascinating. Just look at this site and try not to get
> excited:
>
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/gormenghast/home.html
>
> So what I want to know, before I run out and buy the
> DVD is, is it good or just pretty and well-cast?
>
> Any info would be greatly appreciated!
>
> --Anna
>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material
from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods --
MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
> Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> ____________________________________________________________
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




From skelkins at attbi.com  Fri Mar  8 00:18:38 2002
From: skelkins at attbi.com (ssk7882)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 00:18:38 -0000
Subject: Gormenghast?
In-Reply-To: <a68u2e+2166@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6900u+b701@eGroups.com>

Ooooooooh, Gormenghast!

One of my all-time favorite series -- or at least the first 
two volumes are.  (The first two novels fairly well complete
a plot arc; the third, which takes the story elsewhere, left me
pretty cold, although others' mileage obviously may vary.)
But _Titus Groan_ and _Gormenghast,_ counted together as one
novel, is always up there whenever I try to compose one of those
lists of favorite books.  My original paperback copies have 
literally fallen to pieces from re-reading.

Be warned, though: Peake's prose is *very* purple.  This is, of 
course, an enormous part of the appeal -- Gormenghast is a
masterpiece of grotesquerie and excess --  but if you don't like 
that sort of writing, then you may find the books a hard slog.  
In my experience, people tend to either love Peake's style or 
absolutely loathe it; there would seem to be little middle 
ground.  So if you're contemplating giving the books a try, I'd 
recommend opening one up right there in the bookshop or library 
and reading a few pages first, before you decide to take them
home.  You'll find out soon enough if it's the sort of thing
you enjoy or not.

As for the television series, I found it...eh.  It was okay, I
guess.  It didn't excite me much, but I thought that the cast
did a very nice job.

But then, I'm absolutely the wrong person to ask, as I hardly
ever think very highly of screen adaptations of books that I
adore.


-- Elkins, who always had a little crush on Prunesquallor




From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  8 00:47:35 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 00:47:35 -0000
Subject: Books books books!
In-Reply-To: <20020306224918.7040.qmail@web20410.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a691n7+na7d@eGroups.com>

Liz writes:

> I just got finished with "The Mists of Avalon" by
> Marion Zimmer Bradley and "The Hobbit" by J.R.R.
> Tolkien. On my list is:
> LOTR trilogy by J.R.R. Tolkien
> "Rose Red" by Stephen King
> "The Last Unicorn" by Peter S. Beagle
> "Ragtime" by someone I can't remember
> "Hamlet" by William Shakespeare
> "Catcher in the Rye" by J.D. Salinger

Hamlet is a classic for good reason, and I also
recommend what could be considered its companion piece,
"Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead." 

I myself found LotR to be terminally boring, but The
Last Unicorn is one of my top five favorite novels.
The prose is absolutely gorgeous; as good as the movie
was, the book is a hundred times better.

"Who Censored Roger Rabbit," another book-turned-movie,
is another of my faves. Again, an excellent movie but
phenominal book.

Also in the Top 5 is "The Great Gatsby." Oooooooooooh.
I had to read it in high school, and boy was I glad I
did. I don't know how well it will play outside the
U.S. (it's very distinctly an American story), but I
found it to be very moving while keeping a reasonably
light tone throughout.

Highly recommended for fans of British humor are the
Red Dwarf books. Very much in the Hitchhiker's Guide
tradition - 'nuff said.

--Anna, feeling pulpy tonight




From triner918 at aol.com  Fri Mar  8 01:03:25 2002
From: triner918 at aol.com (triner2001)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 01:03:25 -0000
Subject: Diana Gabaldon
In-Reply-To: <a65h2d+v4j6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a692kt+8hkm@eGroups.com>

I wrote:

"I had just started a series re-read when I found it at the book 
store.  Of course, I then had to read the other three before 
I could start on it!"

And then Jamieson wrote: 
 
"You have read Drums of Autumn, haven't you? Tha'ts the fourth one, 
and The Firey Cross is the fifth..."


::sigh::

My bad.  I should know better than to post in between groups of 1st 
graders!  *Obviously* I *meant* that I was in the middle of 
reading "Outlander" when I made the discovery of Book 5 at the shop. 
Therefore, I had to read the other 3 prior to reading the brand 
spankin' new one. At least, it was obvious in my head...

Just 3 weeks till Spring Break...

Trina




From jdumas at kingwoodcable.com  Fri Mar  8 02:56:29 2002
From: jdumas at kingwoodcable.com (Katze)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 20:56:29 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Books books books! - Top 5?
References: <a691n7+na7d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3C88285D.5E0904FF@kingwoodcable.com>

saintbacchus wrote:
> 
> Liz writes:
> 
> > I just got finished with "The Mists of Avalon" by
> > Marion Zimmer Bradley 

I started reading this and got slightly bored with it. I would like to
try again, but I think I'll wait until I've finished some other books.

> I myself found LotR to be terminally boring

I'm going to wait until after that movies have been released to see if I
want to read the series. I've heard it is very tedious and overly
descriptive at some point. Reminds me of Dune. I loved the story, but
the book has it's own glossary - geez! I like Sci-fi's version of it as
well. They did it right by doing a 6 hour mini-series. The movie that
came out a long time ago is nothing near the real story.

> Last Unicorn is one of my top five favorite novels.
> The prose is absolutely gorgeous; as good as the movie
> was, the book is a hundred times better.

I love the movie, and have the book on my list.
 
> Also in the Top 5 is "The Great Gatsby." Oooooooooooh.
> I had to read it in high school, and boy was I glad I
> did. I don't know how well it will play outside the
> U.S. (it's very distinctly an American story), but I
> found it to be very moving while keeping a reasonably
> light tone throughout.

Yikes! Read it in high school...can't remember a darned thing about
it...

> Highly recommended for fans of British humor are the
> Red Dwarf books. Very much in the Hitchhiker's Guide
> tradition - 'nuff said.

Red Dwarf is wonderful! Loved the first one.

My top 5 would have to be (in no particular order):
1. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress (this one *is* #1 for me)
2. Neverending story - movie was great, but the book is so much better
3. Forever War
4. Watership Down
5. Janet Evonovich's Stephanie Plum series (ok...so it's not one book,
but a series, but they are extremely funny).

I've got so many books that I'm looking forward to reading. I've got at
least 2 years worth of books. On the top of the list are:

1. Earthsea Series, by Ursula LeGuin (I've started the first one)
2. His Dark Materials, Philip Pullman
3. Here be Dragons, Sharon Penman
4. Fire Upon the Deep, Vernor Vinge

So what's your top 5? What's on your list to read?
-Katze



From devin.smither at yale.edu  Fri Mar  8 03:40:44 2002
From: devin.smither at yale.edu (uilnslcoap)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 03:40:44 -0000
Subject: Books books books! - Top 5?
In-Reply-To: <3C88285D.5E0904FF@kingwoodcable.com>
Message-ID: <a69brs+h6pv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Katze <jdumas at k...> wrote:

> My top 5 would have to be (in no particular order):
> 1. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress (this one *is* #1 for me)
> 2. Neverending story - movie was great, but the book is so much 
better
> 3. Forever War
> 4. Watership Down
> 5. Janet Evonovich's Stephanie Plum series (ok...so it's not one 
book,
> but a series, but they are extremely funny).
> 
> I've got so many books that I'm looking forward to reading. I've 
got at
> least 2 years worth of books. On the top of the list are:
> 
> 1. Earthsea Series, by Ursula LeGuin (I've started the first one)
> 2. His Dark Materials, Philip Pullman
> 3. Here be Dragons, Sharon Penman
> 4. Fire Upon the Deep, Vernor Vinge
> 
> So what's your top 5? What's on your list to read?
> -Katze

Boo-yah on the Watership Down!  Here's my five:

1. Lord of the Rings (yeah yeah...)
2. A Clockwork Orange (this is SO much better than the movie), I 
think it's easily one of the greatest books written in the 20th 
century
3. The Scarlet Letter
4. Catch-22
5. Watership Down

Gonna read for the first time:

War and Peace
Crime and Punishment
about eight million Agatha Christie novels

That's it for the immediate future, but that's because the semester 
is a particularly stressful one.  As soon as this semester ends, I'm 
really gonna get down and read a lot of stuff.

Does anyone have a favorite Christie novel?  Mine is Thirteen at 
Dinner (also called Lord Edgeware Dies), but And Then There Were None 
and Roger Ackroyd are also up there.  We can make it a separate topic 
from the Top 5 thing if anyone wants to reply to that.

Devin




From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Mar  8 04:37:25 2002
From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 04:37:25 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Agatha Christie
References: <a69brs+h6pv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <007101c1c65a$f35b7ca0$ad4386d9@monica>

Have you ever read any of her Tommy and Tuppence stories? I think they're my favourite, followed by the Poirot stories. I'm not as keen on Miss Marple but I'll read them if there's nothing else going.
On a related notewho's yourfavourit Poirot/Miss Marple from TV or film?
IMHO David Suchet is the perfect Poirot, how anyone could cast Peter Ustinov as a character described as a amall, dapper man is beyound me.

I like historical murder mysteries myself, the Owen Archer mysteries and the Matthew Bartholomew Chronicles are my particular favourites.

K
If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor.
http://minievil.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: uilnslcoap 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 3:40 AM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Books books books! - Top 5?
  Gonna read for the first time:

  War and Peace
  Crime and Punishment
  about eight million Agatha Christie novels

  That's it for the immediate future, but that's because the semester 
  is a particularly stressful one.  As soon as this semester ends, I'm 
  really gonna get down and read a lot of stuff.

  Does anyone have a favorite Christie novel?  Mine is Thirteen at 
  Dinner (also called Lord Edgeware Dies), but And Then There Were None 
  and Roger Ackroyd are also up there.  We can make it a separate topic 
  from the Top 5 thing if anyone wants to reply to that.

  Devin


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  8 05:09:27 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 05:09:27 -0000
Subject: Agatha Christie
In-Reply-To: <a69brs+h6pv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a69h27+214t@eGroups.com>

Devin asks:

<<
Does anyone have a favorite Christie novel? Mine is
Thirteen at Dinner (also called Lord Edgeware Dies),
but And Then There Were None and Roger Ackroyd are
also up there. We can make it a separate topic from
the Top 5 thing if anyone wants to reply to that.
>>

Darn! I forgot "And Then There Were None" - IMO, the
greatest mystery novel ever written. My jaw never
fails to go slack when I read the end, even though
I've read it a bunch of times. Too bad they never
managed to make a decent movie out of it.

--Anna




From dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  8 05:17:31 2002
From: dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com (Elizabeth Sager)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:17:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Digest Number 570. And stuff.
In-Reply-To: <1015551012.6291.56690.m2@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020308051731.27942.qmail@web20401.mail.yahoo.com>

<<Thoughts?  Bets?  Do we want a poll?>>

Speaking of bets, Mike was going to take bets on what
people thought was going to happen in the fifth book
(or maybe just plain future books too), and I was
going to stick the bets up on a website. What
happened, Mike? Did real life bite you in the butt
too?

I wrote:
> I had a slightly HP
> related dream once...it involved being chased by a
> sneezing dragon while Charlie Weasley laughed. I was
> feeling pretty indignant. Interpretation, anyone?

And racjom replied:
> I'm not very good at interpreting dreams but I'll 
> try. Perhaps you're 
> in a situation you don't want to be in and someone 
> is just enjoying 
> him/herself by observing you while you're in trouble
> although they could help you out of it?

Ooh. You are *good*. That would be the local public
education system, or my high school at any rate, and
my parents. Yep. 

Liz


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/



From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  8 04:59:58 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 04:59:58 -0000
Subject: Books books books! - Top 5?
In-Reply-To: <3C88285D.5E0904FF@kingwoodcable.com>
Message-ID: <a69gge+uvsm@eGroups.com>

Katze writes:

<<
I've heard it is very tedious and overly descriptive
at some point. Reminds me of Dune. I loved the story,
but the book has it's own glossary - geez! I like
Sci-fi's version of it as well. They did it right by
doing a 6 hour mini-series. The movie that came out
a long time ago is nothing near the real story.
>>

Well, "The Hobbit" was excellent, but I just couldn't
get into the trilogy. As for Dune, I saw the movie
because David Lynch directed it. My thoughts were kind
of like: "Ooh, Kyle MacLachlan! Ooh, Jack Nance! The
sets are very pretty...what just happened?"


<<
Yikes! Read it in high school...can't remember a
darned thing about it...
>>

Basically, it's about a soldier returning from WWI who
amasses a fortune for the sole purpose of impressing a
rich girl. It's really hard to describe what's so
compelling about that...I don't know myself. But I do
love it. It's quite beautifully written, and if you can
get into the story, more's the better. :)


> Red Dwarf is wonderful! Loved the first one.

A note about the Red Dwarf books: the first two are the
best because they were written by the writers of the TV
series, Rob Grant and Doug Naylor. The other two were
separate attempts by Grant and Naylor to write the third
book. Let's just say that it becomes blindingly obvious
that these guys are a pair. -_- The first two books
really are paragons of sci-fi humor, though. Rimmer's
Better Than Life fantasy is even more deranged in the
books - poor guy!


<<
My top 5 would have to be (in no particular order):
1. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress (this one *is* #1 for me)
2. Neverending story
3. Forever War
4. Watership Down
5. Janet Evonovich's Stephanie Plum series
>>

Hmmm...I'd like to read "Neverending Story" and
"Watership Down" sometime. I'll have to get over the
Harry Potter obsession first, though. :) I haven't heard
of the other three.

I suppose I should cop to my shamefully juvenile taste.
I find that books are such a large time investment
that I usually only read quickies - humor, comics,
TV/movie/game tie-ins, and like that. Sigh! But I have
been known to read a novel or two, and the books that
I try to force on anyone who will read them are:

(In no particular order)
1. "The Last Unicorn" by Peter S. Beagle
2. "The Great Gatsby" by F. Scott Fitzgerald
3. "Who Censored Roger Rabbit?" by Gary Wolf
4. Red Dwarf - "Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers" &
   "Better Than Life" by Grant Naylor
5. "1984" by George Orwell

I also have a rather large soft spot for the "Alice in
Wonderland" books. :)

As for what's on my plate, should I ever actually
locate any of them:
1. "Titus Groan" by Mervyn Laurence Peake
2. "The Princess Bride" by William Goldman
3. "A Series of Unfortunate Events" by Lemony Snicket


--Anna




From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Mar  8 05:10:49 2002
From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn Cawte)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 05:10:49 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Agatha Christie
References: <a69h27+214t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1c65f$9df8b700$0a0b86d9@monica>

I'm quite partial to Murder on the Orient Express myself

K
If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor.
http://minievil.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: saintbacchus 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 5:09 AM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Agatha Christie
  Darn! I forgot "And Then There Were None" - IMO, the
  greatest mystery novel ever written. My jaw never
  fails to go slack when I read the end, even though
  I've read it a bunch of times. Too bad they never
  managed to make a decent movie out of it.

  --Anna



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From ganvira at earthlink.net  Fri Mar  8 06:26:38 2002
From: ganvira at earthlink.net (Terry van Ettinger)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:26:38 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Books books books! - Top 5?
References: <a69brs+h6pv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <008d01c1c66a$340ec220$0797cd18@charterpipeline.com>

I've heard Never-ending story was first a book, but I never found out who it
was by.  Does anyone know that?

Terry
----- Neverending story - movie was great, but the book is so much
> better




From nlpnt at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  8 06:31:52 2002
From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 06:31:52 -0000
Subject: Here's a good one-completely OT
Message-ID: <a69lso+jj5i@eGroups.com>

Unfortunately, the documentation got cut off this as it appeared on 
the board I copy-and-pasted it from. So, call it an urban legend

Only in America........... 
A Charlotte, North Carolina lawyer purchased a box of very rare and 
expensive cigars then insured them against fire, among other things. 
Within a month, having smoked his entire stock-pile of these cigars 
and without yet having made even his first premium payment on the 
policy, the lawyer filed a claim against the insurance company. In 
his claim, the lawyer stated the cigars were lost "in a series of 
small fires." 

The insurance company refused to pay, citing the obvious reason: that 
the man had consumed the cigars in the normal fashion. The lawyer 
sued....and won! 

In delivering the ruling the judge agreed with the insurance company 
that the claim was frivolous. The Judge stated nevertheless, that the 
lawyer held a policy from the company in which it had warranted that 
the cigars were insurable and also guaranteed that it would insure 
them against fire, without defining what is considered to 
be "unacceptable fire" and was obligated to pay the claim. Rather 
than endure a lengthy and costly appeal process, the insurance 
company accepted the ruling and paid $15,000.00 to the lawyer for his 
loss of the rare cigars lost in the "fires." 

NOW FOR THE BEST PART... 
After the lawyer cashed the check, the insurance company had him 
arrested on 24 counts of arson! With his own insurance claim, and 
testimony from the previous case being used against him, the lawyer 
was convicted of intentionally burning his insured property and 
sentenced him to 24 months in jail and a $24,000.00 fine.






From meckelburg at foni.net  Fri Mar  8 06:55:39 2002
From: meckelburg at foni.net (mecki987)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 06:55:39 -0000
Subject: It's a .....Weasly!!
Message-ID: <a69n9b+8rq8@eGroups.com>

Hi All!

I uploaded a picture of my 3year-old little Weasly to the main group 
files yesterday.

you can find it at files/groupmembers/weasly-3.

After this picture, I'm absolutely sure, he is a direct relative of 
Mollys Muggle-second-cousin Magic seems to have jumped a few 
generation because :

Marten is a wizard. And a troublemaker just like Forge too!!
He manages to magically turn our house into the site of an earthquake 
within seconds.

Have a look, you can see it twinkling in his eyes!!

Mecki





From ganvira at earthlink.net  Fri Mar  8 06:22:00 2002
From: ganvira at earthlink.net (Terry van Ettinger)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:22:00 -0800
Subject: Voicelady's username
References: <id.07032002193357.00000@FPE>
Message-ID: <007401c1c669$8ea183e0$0797cd18@charterpipeline.com>

Jeralyn, I love that username!  What is the significance?  Are you a
musician?

Terry




From meckelburg at foni.net  Fri Mar  8 07:56:52 2002
From: meckelburg at foni.net (mecki987)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 07:56:52 -0000
Subject: neverending Story, was Books books books! - Top 5?
In-Reply-To: <008d01c1c66a$340ec220$0797cd18@charterpipeline.com>
Message-ID: <a69qs4+mcdu@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Terry van Ettinger" <ganvira at e...> 
wrote:
> I've heard Never-ending story was first a book, but I never found 
out who it
> was by.  Does anyone know that?
> 
> Terry
> ----- Neverending story - movie was great, but the book is so much
> > better


Hi, the book is by Michael Ende, a german Author. Another great book 
he wrote was Momo. read them both. They're great. Ende is one of the 
authors who wrote books for both children and adults. There is so much 
behind his stories, moral and philosophy.

Read them, and tell me if you like them
Mecki




From meckelburg at foni.net  Fri Mar  8 08:16:46 2002
From: meckelburg at foni.net (mecki987)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:16:46 -0000
Subject: Books books books!
In-Reply-To: <a691n7+na7d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a69s1e+9blq@eGroups.com>

Hi All,
my Top 5 books are: (series counted as one)

1) *Harry Potter* - :-)

2) the *hitchhiker's guide*- triology of 5, by Douglas Adams
   - my favorite holiday books, just fun to read by most of the 
nonexisting lifeforms of this planet.
3) *I never promised you a rosegarden*, by Hannah Green - so much 
better, than the movie
4) The neverending Story and Momo, both by Michael Ende - try them, 
they are books for both adults and kids, great!
5) *Sophies World* and other books by Jostein Gaarder - beautiful 
language, I read Sophies World in one night, and it is really long!


The next books I want to read are the Russel- books by Laurie King 
(based on Sherlock Holmes) and *The Dark is rising*- series by Susan 
Cooper.
And then, hopefully soon, of course : Book 5 :-)

Mecki




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri Mar  8 09:31:37 2002
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:31:37 -0000
Subject: Cybergender
In-Reply-To: <003201c1c616$5f8338e0$0797cd18@charterpipeline.com>
Message-ID: <a6a0dp+g79o@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Terry van Ettinger" <ganvira at e...> 
wrote:

> Terry, who is running the risk of coughing her head off.

having earlier posted:

> I don't think I am all that much like my gender. Let me just ask 
you all this by way of demonstration. Which gender do you take me for?

Is this a clue?

David





From skelkins at attbi.com  Fri Mar  8 10:33:00 2002
From: skelkins at attbi.com (ssk7882)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:33:00 -0000
Subject: Books books books! - Top 5?
In-Reply-To: <a69brs+h6pv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6a40s+g9p6@eGroups.com>

Devin asked:

> Does anyone have a favorite Christie novel?  

Oooooooh, Christie!  

<sits up and takes notice>

> Mine is Thirteen at Dinner (also called Lord Edgeware Dies), but 
> And Then There Were None and Roger Ackroyd are also up there.  

Oooh, yes.  _And Then There Were None_ and _The Murder of Roger 
Ackroyd_ would both *definitely* have to go on my top five list.  I'm 
also extremely fond of _Murder on the Orient Express, Death on the 
Nile,_ and _Evil Under the Sun._

Of the somewhat lesser knowns, my favorites are _Three Little Pigs_
(also known as _Murder In Retrospect_), _The Hollow,_ and _Towards 
Zero._

Oh.  But that makes eight, doesn't it?  

I'm also extremely fond of _Sleeping Murder,_ because although I now
consider it one of Christie's weaker efforts, it was the first one
that I ever read, and I was young enough at the time that it really
really *scared* me.

I'm not crazy about Tommy and Tuppence myself, but I found the 
oft-decried _Postern of Fate_ utterly fascinating when read as a 
novel about the onset of senile dementia.

Oh, dear.  You know, I *really* didn't mean for that to come out 
sounding nearly as cruel as I suspect that it must have.  But 
seriously, if you read Christie's autobiography, and then read 
_Postern of Fate,_ it does form a very interesting picture of an 
author struggling to describe what is happening to the state of her 
mind as she ages.


-- Elkins, who could babble happily about Christie all day long




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri Mar  8 10:47:06 2002
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:47:06 -0000
Subject: OOP length
In-Reply-To: <a68reb+883d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6a4ra+8sa0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "cindysphynx" <cindysphynx at c...> wrote:

> So my guess is . . . 728.
> 
> Cindy (who thinks one of the math majors ought to do some cool 
> projection of the length of Book 7 based on the length of the first 
> four books correlated against the number of months JKR took to 
write 
> each book, and who is guessing the projection would put Book 7 at 
> 1,421 pages)

OK, I took Devin's figures, bunged 'em in Excel, plotted as a 
function of book number (not date) and tried various trendlines as I 
don't have time to work them out myself.

Quadratic fit looks very good, and predicts about 1100 pages, but I 
find it hard to think of a rational basis for a quadratic law.

Linear fit is poorer, and predicts 800 pages.  You could just about 
believe that there is a consistent increase in length as she gains 
confidence and gets more verbose - I felt there was a bit of that in 
GOF.

Fancier stuff (exponential, power, log) has even less common sense 
basis.

However, given that the broad outlines of the plot were worked out 
from the beginning (this is why I think dates are bad - they reflect 
the vicissitudes of her life and rewrites, not book length), I would 
expect the best predictor to be the average of all the books so far - 
about 450.  Remember, this is Devin's American editions for 
comparison.

Not bad for ten minutes work, (including writing this) though I say 
it myself.

David




From devin.smither at yale.edu  Fri Mar  8 11:59:26 2002
From: devin.smither at yale.edu (uilnslcoap)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 11:59:26 -0000
Subject: Agatha Christie
In-Reply-To: <a6a40s+g9p6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6a92u+ebat@eGroups.com>

Kathryn, I have yet to read any Tommy and Tuppence (my father never 
liked them really, and so he never really recommended them), but I 
will have a chance to change that in the near future.

Elkins wrote:

> Oooh, yes.  _And Then There Were None_ and _The Murder of Roger 
> Ackroyd_ would both *definitely* have to go on my top five list.  
I'm 
> also extremely fond of _Murder on the Orient Express, Death on the 
> Nile,_ and _Evil Under the Sun._
> 
> Of the somewhat lesser knowns, my favorites are _Three Little Pigs_
> (also known as _Murder In Retrospect_), _The Hollow,_ and _Towards 
> Zero._
> 
> Oh.  But that makes eight, doesn't it?  
> 
> I'm also extremely fond of _Sleeping Murder,_ because although I now
> consider it one of Christie's weaker efforts, it was the first one
> that I ever read, and I was young enough at the time that it really
> really *scared* me.
> 
> I'm not crazy about Tommy and Tuppence myself, but I found the 
> oft-decried _Postern of Fate_ utterly fascinating when read as a 
> novel about the onset of senile dementia.
> 
> Oh, dear.  You know, I *really* didn't mean for that to come out 
> sounding nearly as cruel as I suspect that it must have.  But 
> seriously, if you read Christie's autobiography, and then read 
> _Postern of Fate,_ it does form a very interesting picture of an 
> author struggling to describe what is happening to the state of her 
> mind as she ages.

You know, I have an English paper due in three hours, so I'm taking 
time out of my very busy schedule to reply to this.  (*inwardly 
cursing self*)

Oh, and Anna, yes, And Then There Were None is fantastic and deserves 
a good movie version (the really old one from the 30s comes closest, 
but we need a version that embraces the REAL ending--and what an 
ending!).  I always pictured Lesley Ann Warren as Vera Claythorne, 
but she's a tad old for the job now.

Elkins, are you sure it was called Three Little Pigs?  I thought it 
was Five Little Pigs (and I remember that being also called Murder in 
Retrospect), about that artist fellow who was thought to be murdered 
by his wife Caroline, yes?  That is a very good one, if we are 
thinking of the same novel.  Death on the Nile is EXCELLENT, and The 
Hollow and Towards Zero are both well above average on my scale.  I 
regret not having read either Postern of Fate or Evil Under the Sun 
at this point.  I never cared for Murder on the Orient Express 
because it's the only Christie I figured out before the solution came 
out.  It felt pat to me, but never mind, never mind.

It's definitely telling that Marple holds little or no weight in my 
favorites (I'd pick The Moving Finger--I think that's what it's 
called--as my favorite Marple, it's good but not quite ranking among 
the Poirots).

I'll tell you a couple of lesser-knowns I love: Cards on the Table 
because it's the only Christie where EVERY suspect was realistically 
red-herringed up till the very end.  Three Act Tragedy for reasons 
that concern the solution and which I will not divulge here.  I also 
like The ABC Murders, but I couldn't tell you why right now.

Here's the Christie (aside from perhaps And Then There Were None) 
that I think deserves a place in literary, and not just mystery, 
history: Endless Night.  That book is SO well-written.  The murder 
occurs so far in and what drives the book instead is atmosphere and 
tension.  All the while, I shivered, thinking "Something is not 
right, something is rotten here."  Pay-off came with a vengeance.  
That book is marvelously constructed and written, and I think would 
stand literary analysis.  "In my end is my beginning."  "Some are 
born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night." *shudder*

Here's why Thirteen at Dinner is my favorite: 1) I find the 
characters more believable than usual.  2) I felt if I'd only 
wrestled a little longer, I would have had the solution, yet it 
satisfied me when I heard it to no end.  3) It is the only Poirot 
mystery where he, Poirot, is mystified almost the entire time.  He 
runs about like a chicken with his head cut off, losing his cool at 
Hastings not a few times.  In just about every Poirot mystery, Poirot 
ambles about self-satisfiedly certain he will come out at the 
answer.  In Thirteen at Dinner, he almost drives himself crazy.  He 
is saved by coincidence (as is revealed early in the book).  In fact, 
Hastings reveals in the first couple of pages that Poirot considers 
the case one of his failures because it was only through chance that 
he arrived at the solution.  Of course, it's necessary to have read 
about 10 Poirot novles before this to understand how utterly 
unbelievable it is to see Poirot at a loss for so long.

And I can't remember who asked this, but yes, David Suchet is the 
only man who should play Poirot, ever.  The Murder on the Orient 
Express fellow was oddly manic and just off-putting and Ustinov (in a 
QUITE GOOD adaptation of Death on the Nile) was just too stolid, not 
energetic enough.  Suchet is so prim, and yet obviously alive and 
involved and active.  He's the best representation I've seen (even if 
the A&E Thirteen at Dinner and Murder of Roger Ackroyd adaptations 
disappointed me).  A&E's Marple is quite good, too, though I don't 
remember her name.






From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri Mar  8 12:15:03 2002
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:15:03 -0000
Subject: Agatha Christie
In-Reply-To: <a6a92u+ebat@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6aa07+e7pk@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "uilnslcoap" <devin.smither at y...> wrote:
> I also 
> like The ABC Murders, but I couldn't tell you why right now.
> 

A
g
a
t
h
a
C
h
r
i
s
t
i
e
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
p
a
c
e

Well, in And Then There Were None, nobody did it, apparently.  In 
Roger Ackroyd, the narrator did it.  In Orient Express, everybody did 
it.

In the ABC Murders, anybody did it.

I take it that And Then There Were None is the one I know as Ten 
Little Niggers.  In an interesting early display of political 
correctness, I believe it was originally published in the US under 
the title Ten Little Injuns.  We move on, or not, as the case may be.

David




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  8 12:51:40 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:51:40 -0000
Subject: Agatha Christie movies
In-Reply-To: <a6a92u+ebat@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6ac4s+oo7m@eGroups.com>

Devin wrote:

> The Murder on the Orient 
> Express fellow was oddly manic and just off-putting 

"Fellow"?  "FELLOW"?!!  <Amy gasps for oxygen to hear one of her 
favorite actors, Albert Finney, referred to in this cavalier fashion>

OK, I've put my head in a paper bag and feel much better now.  I agree 
100%, actually.  Finney, who is a great and subtle actor, is far from 
either in this movie.  He seemed to be all accent & mannerisms and not 
to get the character at all.  Also, although it was made by one of my 
favorite directors (Lumet), it is by far his worst movie IMO.  He said 
it was just one of those routine things you do so that you can get 
_Fail-Safe_ and _Dog Day Afternoon_ made, and that's okay, but I don't 
think he had a handle on it any more than Finney did.  It had no sense 
of suspense for me, and a good mystery movie will have one even when 
you know the solution (as I did).  

All in all, all-star casting seldom does a movie any favors; the 
actors seem to think it's license to play their typecasting to the 
hilt.  Lots of fun for them, tedious to watch.  Though the actors all 
did pretty well with Orient Express (Finney excepted), Evil Under the 
Sun stands out to me as a really lousy movie.  (When I heard Maggie 
Smith was in HP, the reason I said "oh god, not HER" was that I 
flashed back to her embarrassing performance in this picture.  Even as 
a kid I thought it was over-the-top stereotypical.  But I have since 
decided it was a lapse on The Divine Dame M's part.)

Amy

P.S.  I hope your paper went well.




From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Fri Mar  8 13:39:42 2002
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 13:39:42 -0000
Subject: Agatha Christie
In-Reply-To: <a6aa07+e7pk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6aeuu+jt07@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "davewitley" <dfrankiswork at n...> wrote:
> I take it that And Then There Were None is the one I know as Ten 
> Little Niggers.  In an interesting early display of political 
> correctness, I believe it was originally published in the US under 
> the title Ten Little Injuns.  We move on, or not, as the case may be.

Published in the US as "Ten Little Indians" before the title change.




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  8 13:50:16 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 13:50:16 -0000
Subject: OOP length
In-Reply-To: <a6a4ra+8sa0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6afio+5b1c@eGroups.com>

Mathematician Dave wrote:

> I would 
> expect the best predictor to be the average of all the books so far 
- 
> about 450.  Remember, this is Devin's American editions for 
> comparison.

If the American yield is 450, that would suggest a UK edition of 
330 pages (using the PS-CS-PA font size) or 390 pages (using the GF 
font size).

Amy 
who was an arts-and-humanities major whose eyes glaze over when she 
reads terms like "quadratic," but who at least knows how to do ratios




From voicelady at mymailstation.com  Fri Mar  8 13:06:25 2002
From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:06:25 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Voicelady's username
Message-ID: <id.08032002090625.00000@FPE>

Easy enough question to answer - I am a voiceover actor.  If you live in middle America, it's quite possible you've heard me.  I'm still hoping for a national spot or a cartoon, though...

Don't ask me to sing. LOL

Jeralyn, the Voicelady
--------------------------------------------------------------
Jeralyn, I love that username!  What is the significance?  Are you a musician?

Terry



From jdumas at kingwoodcable.com  Fri Mar  8 15:31:41 2002
From: jdumas at kingwoodcable.com (Katze)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:31:41 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Books books books! - Top 5?
References: <a69brs+h6pv@eGroups.com> <008d01c1c66a$340ec220$0797cd18@charterpipeline.com>
Message-ID: <3C88D95D.CA4452B1@kingwoodcable.com>

Terry van Ettinger wrote:
> 
> I've heard Never-ending story was first a book, but I never found out who it
> was by.  Does anyone know that?
> 
> Terry

Neverending story is by Michael Ende. The movie was really good, and
cohesive, but they left out about 1/2 of the book. Sorry for the
two-liner reply...

-Katze



From moongirlk at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  8 15:18:04 2002
From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:18:04 -0000
Subject: The Eyre Affair
In-Reply-To: <id.07032002193357.00000@FPE>
Message-ID: <a6aknc+9plc@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "voicelady" <voicelady at m...> wrote:
> For anyone who's interested in a really good read, I'm currently 
engrossed in "The Eyre Affair" by Jasper Fforde.  <snip>

I'm so glad to hear about this because I recently bought the book, 
and was planning to enjoy it this weekend.  Now I can't wait!  Yay 
for fun books!

kimberly
who hasn't had time to read for nearly 3 weeks now and is suffering 
from withdrawal




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri Mar  8 15:32:48 2002
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:32:48 -0000
Subject: Cultural differences
In-Reply-To: <a6afio+5b1c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6alj0+htbu@eGroups.com>

> Amy 
> who was an arts-and-humanities major whose eyes glaze over when she 
> reads terms like "quadratic," but who at least knows how to do 
ratios
Sorry, I did rather blind with science there.

Quadratic just means that if n is the number of the book (so for OOP, 
n = 5), then the formula for the number of pages looks like

a times n-squared plus b times n plus c

where a, b and c are constants which I got the computer to work out 
from Devin's numbers.

I get the reverse experience here too.  I have learnt a lot, reading 
the posts of those with a background in the humanities.

I think this cultural difference is probably more significant than 
that across the Atlantic (or Pacific, Tabouli?), or between liberal 
and conservative, for our discussions.  As scientists here, we are 
guests in the natural territory of the artists/humanitarians, and 
sometimes struggle to cope with the habits of thought assumed 
natural.  This is particularly the case when we discuss the processes 
that are involved in reading and interpreting the books.  IMO, the 
scientists view it as mostly passive, sitting at JKR's feet to 
understand her world, so to speak, while the artists see it as 
active, where the readers use canon to invent their own world.

In consequence those with a scientific background tend to make a 
sharp distinction between interpreting canon and writing fanfic; 
those with a humanities background don't and indeed can't.

It has been interesting getting to grips with a different way of 
looking at fiction, and very enriching, but I cannot deny it has been 
painful at times, as I slopped my rat's spleen into the cauldron at 
the wrong time.

David




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Fri Mar  8 11:26:52 2002
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:26:52 EST5EDT
Subject: Top 5 Books and etc.
Message-ID: <2B0EB267B9@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

The Narnia Chronicles

The Class by Erich Segal (had to read it my senior year in 
High School....loved it!)

Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen

Be True To Your School by Bob Greene

A Knight In Shining Armor by Jude Deveraux (and I usually 
HATE romance novels....but this one is awesome)

It's hard to pick a Top 5.  That's just some of my 
favorites.

I'm going to be reading:

The rest of the Prydain Chronicles by Lloyd Alexander
The Bonesetter's Daughter by Amy Tan

so that'll keep me busy for the next month or two.

I just finished The Princess Bride: S. Morgenstern's 
Classic Tale of True Love and High Adventure (The "Good 
Parts" Version) by William Goldman.  It is absolutely 
hilarious!!!  The movie is wonderful but you truly need to 
read the book.  I highly recommend it to everyone.




Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements


In 1419, the Council issued the famously worded decree
that Quidditch should not be played "anywhere near any place
where there is the slightest chance that a Muggle might be
watching or we'll see how well you can play whilst chained
to a dungeon wall."



From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Fri Mar  8 17:20:57 2002
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:20:57 -0000
Subject: Astrid Lindgren has been laid to rest
Message-ID: <a6artq+15n9@eGroups.com>

Astrid Anna Emilia Lindgren died January 28th, after having lived her 
whole life and having said all she had to say.  The public funeral 
took place today, Friday March 8th, from Storkyrkan in Gamla Stan in 
Stockholm.  She will be laid to rest in a private ceremony in Sm?land.

Today I cried a little.



The following piece is written by J?rgen Gaare, and appeared in 
Aftenposten's online edition February 9th, 2002, and may be seen in 
its original version at 
http://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/kronikker/article.jhtml?
articleID=272718.  Unfortunately it is not presently available in 
English, and I therefore made the below translation.  

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eating cherries with the small ones

"The snow lay in drives, and the winter day was desolate and cold, 
but over the garden wall a cherry-tree stretched in blossoming white 
branches"

Astrid Lindgren's border-breaking philosophy can bear comparison with 
Socrates, Plato, and Nietzsche.  Her analysis of the function of 
language, and her treatment of tabooed topics still shock habitual 
thinking, though her books have become common property, writes 
philosopher and publishing editor J?rgen Gaare.  In 2000, together 
with ?ystein Sjaastad, he published the book "Pippi og Sokrates. 
Filosofiske vandringer i Astrid Lindgrens verden" ("Pippi and 
Socrates:  Philosophical strolls in the world of Astrid Lindgren").

With everyday topics such as earnestness, humour, and cherries Astrid 
Lindgren broke boundaries.  Not only did she dare to write to 
children about large, painful topics, about death, about anxiety and 
fears, about the evils.  She wrote contrary to the demands of 
contemporary taste and fashion, touched taboos, shocked the decent 
grown ups and wrote her way into the hearts of children everywhere.  
She has been published in issues so large that hardly anyone could 
dream to match ? it would have to be Mao, God, or Harry Potter.  Her, 
in every sense, great authorship has delighted, amazed, amused, and 
comforted millions. 

Long before her death Astrid Lindgren was canonised ? also in the 
sense that all her main works are part of the canon of children's 
literature.  But the universal embrace of her works comes at a 
price.  It tends to involve her text being perceived as harmless, 
that they no longer cause offence.  

There is ample reason to recall that her books several times reaped 
storm.  Her debut-book caused the Pippi-controversy, where she was 
accused of assaulting morale and public decency.  In the 70s the 
Marxists wrote her off as having a flawed view of classes.  And "The 
Brothers Lionheart" was strongly criticised for its ending:  Did it 
in fact encourage suicide? 

There is ample reason to remind that her books still will cause 
several shocks to habitual thinking.  Apparently so harmless, but 
with such provocative power:  She chose to eat her cherries with the 
small people.  

In Bullerby the cherry-tree grows in a highly earthly paradise, but 
the idyll has its discomforts.  The children complain of the dust 
that hurts their eyes, as they stand by the roadside selling 
berries.  Then the oldest lad Lars makes an existential choice: 
"Why do people say: "ych, how hot the sun shines" or "ugh, how loud 
the birds are singing," said Lars. Who decided that one should like 
it when the sun's shining, but not when it's dusty?  And then we made 
up our minds to like it when it was dusty. "
This "reappraisal of values" ? completely by Nietzsche's recipe ? is 
characteristic of Lindgren. Pippi, Karlsson-On-The-Roof and Emil each 
in their way rebel against stolidity and established truths. 

Emil and his tame pig also like cherries.  The more impossible it is 
to understand that mother Alma asks him to throw away a whole 
bucket!  It goes completely against all reason and frugality of 
Sm?land.  That the berries had been the raw materials for wine, Emil 
of course does not know, no more than he knows which disasters are 
fermenting within them.  All of Katthult and Vimmerby are put on 
their heads in what must be the most burlesque comedy of Lindgren's 
collected tricks.  The totallers come out in force, and Emil agrees 
to give the vow of total abstinence on condition that Piggy Beast, 
the drunken swine itself, does likewise.  

The tame pig, the pet pig, is in itself a threat to the orderliness 
of the farmer society.  But now a new revolution takes place.  In 
power of its vow, the pig becomes a responsible individual.  Emil's 
utility-maximising tightwad of a father grudgingly has to admit:  One 
does not slaughter a totaller.  

The collection Sunnaneng from 1959 contains Lindgren's most beautiful 
and wistful stories.  The Cherry-tree which stretches itself across 
the garden wall, marks the border to the other side, to 
the "Sunnaneng of the eternal spring" where the lost children find 
light and joy and life and a mother that calls "Come, all my 
children!"  It marks the founding motive in her authorship:  the care 
for children who suffer, who have their childhood stolen away.  The 
cherry-tree foretells of the idyllic Cherryvale in Nangijala, where 
the brothers Lionheart come after their death.  Comforting for many ? 
offensive to a few. 

Astrid Lindgren is a writer who breaks boundaries.  She has a 
register and a span of reflection far greater than that fond in the 
majority of lauded literature for grown ups.  She simply does it so 
easily!  The children in her books philosophise over the small and 
great paradoxes of life.  They wonder about life, worry about death, 
fight evil, long for death.  They wonder why there are stinging 
nettles, or if only real princesses can make a prince out of a frog 
simply by a kiss.  And they question language.  They want to know the 
meaning of words and the nature of things.  

Words can deceive.  Cherries aren't always merely cherries, as Emil 
came to experience.  The basic insight of linguistic philosophy ? 
that there is a difference between the word and the object ? we also 
learn from the opening words of the second book about Emil:

"Do you know now who lived at Katthult?  It was Emil's father, who 
was called Anton, and Emil's mother, who was called Alma, Emil's 
sister who was called Ida, the farmhand, who was called Alfred, the 
serving lass, who was called Lina, and then there was Emil, who was 
called Emil. "

Mrs. Nilson says it with exquisite na?vet? in one of the books about 
Meg (Marikken):  "That'em can see stars, that's one thing.  But 
how'em can see what'em are called, I never can understand." 

At the same time Lindgren is very conscious of the magical, invoking 
sides of words.  Naive or not, for a mythic and childish 
consciousness, the word is the thing.  Only the name of Sir Kato is 
mentioned, all living things shiver in fright, and little birds fall 
dead to the ground.  

The giver of names has power over the things:

"Listen now, wild horses," Birk cried. "Now we have given you names.  
Rascal and Madcap are your names, and now you belong to us, whether 
you want to or not."

Who is the original giver of names that put words on all things? 
Plato asks in the dialogue Kratylos.  "I wonder who found out what 
all the words mean," Tommy chimes in, after Pippi has invented a 
brand spanking new word (obviously inspired by the hero of Lindgren's 
favourite novel, Hunger by Knut Hamsun). 

What ties the meaning of the word to the letter of the word?  Is the 
connection necessary and natural ? or incidental and culturally 
dictated?  Wittgenstein has formed a school by looking at the meaning 
as a function of its use, tied to practical plays with "language".  
Pippi's language-philosophical examination is behind neither in 
fantasy nor analytical prowess, as she methodically goes to work to 
find out what her new word spunk means.  She denounces (as does 
Plato) the onomatopoeia-theory.  Then she alternately tries to listen 
her way into the word for hints (like Heidegger) and test it in 
arranged plays with words (like Wittgenstein). 

When she finally finds the spunk, a shiny-green dung beetle shining 
in all its spunklikeness, there can be no doubt that she at the same 
time recognises it as a scarab. We know that she has done thorough 
field-studies: "Have I been to Egypt!  Oh, you can betcha I have."  
Of course she recognises the most widely spread holy amulet of the 
entire Egyptian high culture.  The Scarab was the beetle which rolled 
the ball of dung, and the beetle-god which rolled the sun-disk.  The 
Scarab was the mystery of creation and rebirth itself.  

It is more dubious whether Pippi was aware of the English meaning of 
the word spunk.  Besides such interpretations as courage, zest, 
mettle, spirit ? highly fitting in regards to Pippi ? it is also a 
vulgar slang-word for sperm or seed.  But also that gives meaning.  
The sower went out to sow his seed, as it says in the gospel, and the 
seed is the word.  In the English translations the seed is most 
decidedly not the word.  Here Pippi's word is called spink.  What at 
once is dirty and holy, is taboo.  Dung beetle and Scarab.  
Disgusting and life-giving seed.  Hair and bodily secretions and 
other ambiguous substances which are unmentionable, dangerous, 
powerful. 

The outcry following Pippi Longstocking shows how society is ready to 
go on alert when taboos are broken and the social order is 
threatened.  Pippi was a fleck of shame on the pure, pretty post-war 
Sweden, a speck of dirt which should have been washed away.  Pippi 
was Taboo personified.  She was unprecedented.  Worried educators and 
parents characterised her and the book as unwholesome, unnatural, 
distasteful, abnormal, reckless, alarming, morbid, even insane.  

Dirt is not dirty in and of itself, but in relations to an 
established order.  As William James says it: Dirt is matter out of 
place.  Anthropologists Edmund Leach and Mary Douglas have created 
the school for this symbolic understanding of uncleanliness and 
taboo.  They would have benefited from fieldwork in Villa 
Villekulla.  Thus writes "Indignant" in Aftonbladet after having 
heard the book read on radio in 1946:

"And what to say bout where we are told that she has a garter and a 
old piece of hardtack in her breadbox, where she was looking for her 
hat, and on the hat shelf there is a piece of cheese, which makes her 
happy because she had been missing it!  Everything goes on in the 
same mind-boggling style.  I have heard tell that this "Pippi 
Longstocking" has received an award.  Is there nobody who can stop 
this demoralising radio-programme? "

"Indignant" finds comfort in how it is inconceivable how this 
rascal "may neither stir nor interest a healthy and well raised 
child".  Paradoxically, this menace must still be stopped, outlawed!  
These are the goals and means of the traditional way of raising 
children: through prohibition to tabooify the dirty, the ill-placed.  
Our cleanliness-rules are as much about mental hygiene as bodily 
hygiene.  It is about keeping our categories in order, by keeping out 
anything which causes confusion in the terms.  

Socrates was also raised to avoid dirt.  In Plato's dialogue 
Parmenides a very young Socrates appears as the defender of the 
concept of ideas ? that the phenomena are the shadows if ideas.  But 
then the sly old fox Parmenides asks if this also is valid for "hair 
and dirt and aught else lowly and despicable ".  Socrates shies 
back:  "To assume an idea for those would, I am afraid, be too 
unheard of... Presented with this thought, I took to flight for fear 
of falling into an abyss of nonsense and go to waste." 

Purity-fanaticism has as known some gloomy offshoots ? from fear of 
foreigners and discrimination to racial hygiene, ethnic cleansing and 
genocide.  Ronia's robberfather Mattis has had unwelcome "asylum-
seekers" enter the Mattis-castle and tries to do everything in his 
power to drive them out.  With Birk Borkason as his hostage he 
finally has the crowbar:

"Now Borka will go straight to Bloksberg faster than he lets go the 
first morning fart." 

But Ronia yells at him:

"Rob you can do, money and things and dirt and dung and whatever you 
like, but humans you can't rob, because then I won't be your daughter 
anymore.  " 

"Here's no talk of humans ", Mattis said, and his voice was not to 
recognise.  "I have captured a worm-spawn, a louse, a little stray 
dog, and I will finally get the castle of my fathers clean.  Then you 
may be my daughter or not, just as you like."

It is difficult to justify persecution of humans, but dirt and vermin 
should be cleaned out.  

Edmund Leach has promoted a theory about the role of the taboo for 
our linguistic perception of the world.  The tabooified is just the 
ambiguous, dirty and untidy which must be removed so the world may 
appear in understandable categories.  The taboo is the negatively 
acting force which removes the disturbing spaces between terms.  
Pippi's spunk is again a glorious example.  

Lindgren's treatment of taboos thus goes far deeper than a jolly fart 
every now and anon.  She has created a host of characters who in 
power of their at the same time potent and ambiguous position between 
terms, trigger the taboo. 

Pippi, Karlsson-On-The-Roof, Emil and Ronia the Robber's Daughter are 
such transcending, provocative figures which immediately cause a mess 
in the "natural" order of things.  The surrounding world reacts in 
programmatic fashion ? with disgust and rejection, with correction 
and confinement.  But their mission is to promote a higher order: 
they are bridgebuilders between separate worlds, like Ronia across 
the Hell-gap.  

Pippi transcends the boundary, not with cherries, but with krumelure-
pills. She chooses in the most literal sense to eradicate adulthood.  
After all, it only consists of a heap of chores, and stupid clothes, 
and corns, and municipal taxes.  "Fine, little krumelur, help me so I 
shan't grow bug!" 

Big, you must mean, Tommy protests.  But no: "If I said bug, then I 
mean bug."  And then she proceeds to tell of a young boy in Rio who 
said big instead of bug, and grew old on the spot.  It is what one in 
linguistics calls "a difference that makes a difference", a minimal 
difference of maximal importance, just link between spunk and spink. 

We may conclude that the pills worked.  Pippi is as young today as 
when she was first written 50 years ago.  Likewise Astrid Lindgren ? 
she never was in any rush to grow big.  But "bug" she is not.  
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Best regards
Christian Stub?




From moongirlk at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  8 17:02:05 2002
From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:02:05 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Voicelady's username
In-Reply-To: <id.08032002090625.00000@FPE>
Message-ID: <a6aqqd+vkkj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "voicelady" <voicelady at m...> wrote:
> Easy enough question to answer - I am a voiceover actor.  If you 
live in middle America, it's quite possible you've heard me.  I'm 
still hoping for a national spot or a cartoon, though...
> 

Jeralyn, I don't know how I missed realizing this, having heard you 
talk about your work some.  As I *do* live in the midwest and as this 
is OTChatter, may I ask what spots to look -err, listen for?

kimberly




From moongirlk at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  8 19:06:44 2002
From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:06:44 -0000
Subject: Books books books! - Top 5?
In-Reply-To: <3C88285D.5E0904FF@kingwoodcable.com>
Message-ID: <a6b244+hacb@eGroups.com>

Katze wants us to list our top 5 books.

Top... *5*... books...?
5?
Only 5?
and they have to be the TOP 5?
What if I can't ordinalize (or whatever the word is - I'm thrown by 
the idea of picking just 5 that are "more favored" out of all my 
favorites.

I'm trying to work out how I decide what to include.  I'm leaving out 
non-fiction, and things like plays, since that would make it even 
harder.  I guess I'll just go with the first 5 I think of, so they're 
in no particular order and the list might be completely different 
tomorrow or the next day.


-Horton Hears a Who - I like Dr. Seuss for the usual reasons, but I 
love Horton because he's so Quixotic.

-Which I suppose means I must include my literary hero Don Quixote 
himself, although I admit to skipping vast portions of the book since 
it's no longer required reading.

-To Kill a Mockingbird  Also on my list of favorite movies as my 
favorite *ever* movie-version of a novel.

-Alice in Wunderbarland and Other Tales and Poems Mein Grossfader 
Told (I think that's right) - I include this to cheat, as it thus 
includes both Alice in Wonderland and this absolutely hilarious 
Germlish spoof thereof.  I found it in a junk shop years ago, and 
since I can't remember what I did with it, I can't give the author - 
anyone else know about this?

-Proof, by Dick Francis.  I consider Francis' novels to be my 
favorite literary snack food, so I had to pick one to include in the 
list.

But ask me in a few days and the list will change, I'm sure.

kimberly
who's about to read Jasper Fforde, and may have to add him in next




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Fri Mar  8 18:00:57 2002
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catorman)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:00:57 -0000
Subject: Top 5 (now 10) Books 
In-Reply-To: <2B0EB267B9@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <a6au8p+lfon@eGroups.com>

Even though I've cheated and increased this to my Top Ten, this is 
very, very difficult, because I have various favourites, for 
different reasons, so I'm going mainly with things that I read at 
least once a year, and can pick up at any time, and not get bored 
with, ever.  These books are kind of like security blankets, and I 
have to take at least a couple of them with me (amongst others) when 
I travel, so I know that there's something there that I will always 
want to read.

Pride and Prejudice - a popular choice, I know, but I love it.  Emma 
is a close second.

HP of course, and if I was limited, I'd say PoA (although I generally 
have the CDs with me).

Louis de Bernieres - I reread his South American trilogy much more 
than Captain Corelli's Mandolin, but I love all of them.

AS Byatt's Possession.

Georgette Heyer - all the Regency/Georgian ones.  They're not just 
romances - IMO she's a comic genius.

Umberto Eco's Foucault's Pendulum (again, a very funny book).

Armistead Maupin's Tales of the City sextet.

Robert Graves' I Claudius and Claudius the God.

Anything by Barbara Trapido

Laurell K Hamilton's Anita Blake series (for serious pulp cravings)


I also love a lot of fantasy/sci fi - The Ender books (not too struck 
with Orson Scott Card's other stuff), Sheri Tepper, Mary Doria 
Russell (anyone else read the Sparrow and Children of God?), Philip 
Pullman (only read twice), Narnia, Tolkein, blah, blah, blah) and one 
offs by other writers - Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow, the Shipping 
News, Snow Falling on Cedars when I'm in a winter phase.  Keats when 
I'm feeling morbid (I love Isabella, or the Pot of Basil).  Any crime 
fiction - loads of American stuff, but my favourite is probably 
Dorothy L. Sayers.


As you can see, it's rather stupid of me to even attempt a list such 
as this!

Catherine





From skelkins at attbi.com  Fri Mar  8 19:09:53 2002
From: skelkins at attbi.com (ssk7882)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:09:53 -0000
Subject: Agatha Christie
In-Reply-To: <a6a92u+ebat@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6b2a1+ruq5@eGroups.com>

Devin wrote:

> Elkins, are you sure it was called Three Little Pigs?  I thought it 
> was Five Little Pigs (and I remember that being also called Murder 
> in Retrospect)...

Ugh.  Yes, of course there were Five Little Pigs, and not Three
Little Pigs.  They're the five little pigs of the toe-counting
game ("This little piggie went to market..."), not the three little 
pigs of "I'll huff and I'll puff.."

Sorry 'bout that.  But yeah, it's the same one you're thinking
of.  I just love that one.

Evil Under the Sun is a fairly standard Poirot, really -- there's
nothing wacky or striking about it, as there is with Orient Express
or Ackroyd -- but I find it a highly satisfying one.

> I never cared for Murder on the Orient Express because it's the 
> only Christie I figured out before the solution came out.  

Alas, I saw the film on television in my youth, and so never got
the chance to find out if I would have guessed it or not.  I enjoy
that one mainly for the humor: Poirot's frustration cracks me up, the 
nationalist stereotyping is delightful, and the utter absurdity of
the plot appeals to me in some strange perverse fashion.  Also, I
like trying to imagine all of the feverishly whispered "off-screen" 
conversations the people on that train must have been having.

But I think you're right: it is a little pat.  Not to mention 
strikingly implausible.  Even for a Christie.

You don't like figuring out the solution, eh?  Funny.  I'm always
very smug with myself when I do that -- although of course, if it's
too easy, then it's just irritating.  I guessed Ackroyd, but I loved 
it anyway.  That one with the home for wayward boys, though -- Murder
With Mirrors?  Was that what it was called? -- I found annoyingly
predictable.

> It's definitely telling that Marple holds little or no weight in my 
> favorites (I'd pick The Moving Finger--I think that's what it's 
> called--as my favorite Marple, it's good but not quite ranking 
> among the Poirots).

I always find the Marples frustrating, because while I really enjoy
her as a character concept, she tends to get decidedly inferior 
mysteries.  I also find her habit of resolving the plot by tricking 
the murderer into a confession through some silly entrapment strategy 
extremely irritating.  I actually quite liked the mystery in _A 
Murder Is Announced,_ but the endgame -- with Miss Marple resorting 
to her previously-undisclosed magical powers of *mimicry* to get the 
murderer to confess (huh?) -- was just plain embarrassing.

Also, in the later Marples, Christie started building her plots so 
faithfully around the literary reference or the nursery rhyme that 
half the time if you know the reference, then you've solved the 
mystery.  And that's really just no fun at all.


> I'll tell you a couple of lesser-knowns I love: Cards on the Table 
> because it's the only Christie where EVERY suspect was 
> realistically red-herringed up till the very end.  

I found Cards on the Table a bit difficult, because I don't play 
bridge or indeed know anything about it.  There was a lot of bridge
talk in the book, and while it wasn't absolutely essential, I 
suspected throughout that I was missing a lot of the fun.  I did 
like the characters, though, and there was a definite appeal to the
melodramatic set-up.  Talk about just plain *asking* for it!

> Three Act Tragedy for reasons that concern the solution and which I 
> will not divulge here.  

I first read Three Act Tragedy in England and absolutely *loved* it.
Then I picked up a copy here in the States, only to discover that
not only the title (which had become Murder In Three Acts), but also 
the entire *ending* had been changed, and that the story no longer 
made very much sense at all.  Forget about the HP publishers changing 
their "Mum"s to "Mom"s and the like, what on earth do you think could 
have led an editor to think it a good idea to change a Whodunnit 
murderer's entire *motivation?*  

But yes, in the original version I really liked that one too.  The
American rewrite, though, I thought was fairly lame. 

Oh, yikes!  Sorry to cut this short, but I must fly -- late
for a meeting.


-- Elkins






From bray.262 at osu.edu  Fri Mar  8 15:25:10 2002
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:25:10 EST5EDT
Subject: I just uploaded a photo
Message-ID: <2F0703329A@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

I took a picture of the front fence of a local high school 
that was celebrating the opening weekend of the Harry 
Potter movie.  It's under Files and titled HPday.

I thought it was cute.

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements


In 1419, the Council issued the famously worded decree
that Quidditch should not be played "anywhere near any place
where there is the slightest chance that a Muggle might be
watching or we'll see how well you can play whilst chained
to a dungeon wall."



From ch001d4564 at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Mar  8 20:38:12 2002
From: ch001d4564 at blueyonder.co.uk (Martin Hooper)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:38:12 +0000
Subject: Agatha Christie was Books books books! - Top 5?
In-Reply-To: <a69brs+h6pv@eGroups.com>
References: <3C88285D.5E0904FF@kingwoodcable.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020308203635.009f9840@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>

At 03:40 08/03/02, you wrote:
>Does anyone have a favorite Christie novel?  Mine is Thirteen at
>Dinner (also called Lord Edgeware Dies), but And Then There Were None
>and Roger Ackroyd are also up there.  We can make it a separate topic
>from the Top 5 thing if anyone wants to reply to that.

I'm a bit partial to a good Miss Marple now and again...  Haven't read any 
for a while though.  Just depends what mood I am in.


Martin Hooper
AIM:martinjh99 ICQ: 43933602
http://www.martinjh.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk




From voicelady at mymailstation.com  Fri Mar  8 18:30:23 2002
From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:30:23 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Voicelady's work (or lack thereof)
Message-ID: <id.08032002143023.00000@FPE>

In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., kimberly asked:

<Jeralyn, I don't know how I missed realizing this, having heard you  talk about your work some.  As I *do* live in the midwest and as this  is OTChatter, may I ask what spots to look -err, listen for?>

The two biggies that you may have heard are radio spots for Neutrogena and Puppy Chow.  In the Puppy chow spot, I was the voice of the dog. <g>  I did both of those about 1 1/2 years ago, so I don't know if they're still airing.  It's been rather dead for non-union actors lately, though.

Jeralyn



From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  8 19:47:23 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:47:23 -0000
Subject: Top 5 (now 10) Books
In-Reply-To: <a6au8p+lfon@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6b4gb+optj@eGroups.com>

Oh dear.  Catherine introduced poetry, which will surely make my list 
burgeon over 10, and which also raises the question of whether 
nonfiction should be on the list--argh, no, it's all too much!

And then Christian delivers the sad news that Astrid Lindgren died 
(over a month ago . . . how did I miss it?), which reminds me that The 
Brothers Lionheart must go onto the list if I look at the entire range 
of my life and not just at books that are my top 5/10 in adulthood.

Ah well, here goes (they aren't in order):


The Secret Garden, Frances Hodgson Burnett

To Kill A Mockingbird, Harper Lee

HP--if not allowed to include them all (sob!), then PoA

The Dispossessed, Ursula K. LeGuin

The Left Hand of Darkenss, Ursula K. LeGuin

The complete fiction of Flannery O'Connor (I'm pretty sure Modern 
Library bundles it all into one volume, saving me the awful choice 
between the short stories and The Violent Bear It Away)


Hmm...I haven't named a book by a man yet.  And to think that for most 
of literary history people said women couldn't write.  I'll try to 
redress the balance.


His Dark Materials, Philip Pullman--if forced to choose one, The Amber 
Spyglass

Lord of the Rings (this is surely one book so I assert the right to 
have all three)

Winesburg, Ohio, Sherwood Anderson


And back to a woman for the last, because if we go by sheer number of 
times reread, I must include Dorothy L. Sayers.  Probably Lord Peter, 
or maybe Strong Poison.

Amy
hitting "send" quickly before Hawthorne, Kafka, Atwood, 
Kundera, Pratchett, Walker or Salinger can get their claws into her 
and demand to be included




From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  8 21:45:58 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 21:45:58 -0000
Subject: Books v. movies (and Gormenghast), fanfiction, Germlish and Engrish
Message-ID: <a6bbem+i4f3@eGroups.com>

Katze writes:
<<
Neverending story is by Michael Ende. The movie was
really good, and cohesive, but they left out about 1/2
of the book.
>>

I may be the only person in the world who thinks this
way, but to me, the enjoyment of a book and the movie
it's based on (or vice-versa) is mutually exlusive. I
didn't care that there were no hedge animals in "The
Shining," or that the entire plot of "Who Censored
Roger Rabbit?" was changed to be unrecognizable. If
the movie is good, I like it. OTOH, I think movies
can be too faithful to their sources. And the prime
example of that would be...Harry Potter!

Oh, speaking of movies that were once books, thanks to
everyone who answered my question about Gormenghast. I
picked up the first book from the library today and I
can already tell I'm going to love it!


David writes:
<<
In consequence those with a scientific background tend
to make a sharp distinction between interpreting canon
and writing fanfic; those with a humanities background
don't and indeed can't.
>>

If that's true (I think it depends on the fic), it's
probably due to the rich literary tradition of fan
fiction. One excellent example is J.M. Coetzee's "Foe,"
which, although it's a retelling of "Robinson Crusoe"
stands by itself as great literature. Sure, calling it
fan fiction is a bit crude, but it's the same idea.


Amy:
Ooh, Flannery O'Connor! I absolutely love her. I don't
know if you're an anti-fanfiction person, but if you're
not, I must recommend one to you:
Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Slack
(http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=571456).
Friday Jones' writing style reminds me strongly of
O'Connor - if not in this particular story, then
certainly her other SubGenius works.

"To Kill A Mockingbird" was another school-required
book, and I enjoyed it muchly...but not as much as my
dear Gatsby. ^_^


Kimberly:
<<
-Alice in Wunderbarland and Other Tales and Poems Mein
Grossfader Told (I think that's right) - I include
this to cheat, as it thus includes both Alice in
Wonderland and this absolutely hilarious Germlish spoof
thereof.
>>

That sounds awesome - I wish I would get ahold of a
copy! I suppose I'll have to be content with this
delightful USEnet thingie:

"Achtung! Alles lookenseepers! Das computermachine ist
nicht fuer gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy
schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken
mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fuer gewerken bei das
dumkopfen. Das rubbernecken sichtseeren keepen das
cotten-picken hans in dem pockets muss; relaxen und
watchen das blinkenlichten."

If you enjoy corrupted English, you might also like
www.engrish.com. Go, Eric Crapton! Woo! ^_^

--Anna




From pollux46 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  8 22:18:35 2002
From: pollux46 at hotmail.com (charisjulia)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:18:35 -0000
Subject: SHIP: E.L.G.I.N.M.A.R.B.L.E.S.
In-Reply-To: <a5m9aq+uv7r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6bdbs+gq7v@eGroups.com>

A late answer here to Elkin's E.L.G.I.N.M.A.R.B.L.E.S. Didn't see it 
for some days I'm afraid as I'm not in the habit of visiting this 
chatter and didn't notice the message in the main chamber. So, I'm 
not really sure it'll actually reach anyone interested in reading it. 
But, for those of you who haven't been following this thread till now 
I would like to repeat the warning that this possibly, well probably, 
won't make much sense. Sorry!

                               *  *  *

Charis Julia is lying on a deckchair soaking in the rays. Her head is 
resting on a big, red, heart?shaped pillow and she's happily sipping 
pink lemonade. At intervals she reaches out for a strawberries and 
cream from the bowl that's by her hammock. At it's side is resting a 
long letter in Elkin's swooping hand. Doves are twittering around 
overhead and the crew of stuffed teddy?bears are lounging around 
lazily. Every now and then one of them flings himself at another's 
feet passionately swearing eternal devotion and then throws himself 
overboard into the emerald sea. An unseen radio is balefully 
wailing ". . .for I?ay?ay, will always loooove you?oo?oo?
ooooooooooo. . ."

Ah, this is the life! Laying back, doing nothing, just letting your 
imagination freely concoct the most ludicrous romantic escapades 
unchecked! No terrorizing enemy ships coming down on you, no mad 
rowing to escape, no Canons busting through the portholes. I could 
get used to this!

Thank you Elkins! Bring it to the OT?Chatter, now why didn't I think 
of that? You're our savior and, if it'll help to re?establish your 
damaged due to recent lapse pride, it is now my turn to bow down low 
self?abasingly muttering my thanks. E.L.G.I.N.M.A.R.B.L.E.S. and it's 
crew will forever honour you.

The Captain reaches out for Elkins letter once more to admire her 
genius. But Elkins is now * criticizing*. Captain scowls.

>"Sweet? Oh, noooooooo.  No, no, no, no, no.  Not at 
>all.  I, er...well, as you know, my tastes are usually, er, a 
>*little* more, um, violent and, uh, ugly, but that's...that's 
>perfectly all right, Captain.  That's just fine.  I..."

Hmmm.<contemplates>. Hmmm. <contemplates some more>.Sweet. The cherry 
filled chocolate in the Captain's stomach churns. Hmmm. She glances 
around at the pastel flowers and frilly, lilac bows. The music pounds 
in her ears.

Errr, maybe you've got a point. Maybe we did go a bit overboard on 
the sweetsie front. Captain glares accusingly down at the little?
heart?nosed First Mate. "All his fault!" she hisses to Elkins.

Right. <smartly clapping hands> Change of decorations.

Charis peruses Elkins letter a minute for ideas. Interesting. . . 
Yes, definitely some good ones in here. Centaurs! Niiiice! Trolley 
witch, excellent, still need canons even in these calm waters. 
Voldemort's wand. Good. Good. Bring that in too. We can accommodate 
all.

But. . . Charis looks up. What is a half centaur? A fawn with horses 
legs instead of a goat's?. . . She never smiled again? Not ever? 
Because of one measly meeting? . . . Death at birth? <eyes widen 
horribly> Look I know I said redecorate, but, well, enough is enough!

Look, tell you what I think needs doing here. I think you've got your 
heroines mixed up. You've got Campanula and Dimorphotheca living each 
others lives. Yes. Hmmm. . . Soooo. . .Let's just see what happens if 
you change them round, shall we? 


Elkins writes:
>And 
>besides, dear Dimorphotheca...well, truth be told, she was never the 
>brightest star in Gryffindor's firmament anyway.

What? Surely that can't be right! Dimorphotheca * was* bright. A 
dozen O.WL.s and double the number of N.E.W.T.s, I'll have you know! 
And can you guess what her best subject was? Potions! Ah, yes, 
haven't you ever wondered how Snape acquired his poetical 
appreciation of this subtle science? Was he instinctively drawn by 
the beauty of simmering cauldrons and shimmering fumes? No, no, no, 
Cherchez shakes it's head sadly. Obviously, it is the memory of cozy 
dungeon sessions pickling rat brains he is recalling here. Ah, yes, 
it was much a stronger power that crept through Snape's brain, 
ensnaring the mind, bewitching the senses. . . the Power of Love!

And do you know which potion it was Dimorphotheca had especial 
expertise on? The Polyjuice Potion.

Was it a love?thwarted Campanula who met Remus on that fateful day 
aboard the Hogwarts' Express? Was her smile consequently wiped 
forever off her face from misery caused of sighting Loved One? Did 
Morphie really return to Muggledom? Could she possibly leave the 
wizard world behind her for ever? What would she say to Muggle job 
interviewers? I'm fluent in Gobbledygook? Have we really never come 
across her anywhere in Canon? Is Dimorphotheca her real name?

No. Thankfully her parents were kinder than that and named her. . . 
Arabella Figg.

Ah, yes. Why do you think a powerful witch who's even part of The 
Crowd agreed to live in the Muggle world for so long? Why do you 
think she had such a crabby attitude? Why do you think her only 
friends were cats? And why should Dumbledore be so sure she would pit 
herself against Voldemort in the new war. What's her particular 
grudge against him? (If you notice all the good guys have one).

Devastated by the betrayal of her love Sirius and seeing her world 
crumbling around her Arabella did in fact decide to cut all ties with 
the wizarding world. All but one. Before she left Dumbledore paid her 
one last visit and asked a huge favour of her: to keep an eye on 
little Harry Potter. And how could she refuse? Her best friends' 
child! A poor little orphan! After all she wouldn't have to do much. 
Just cook up a Polyjuice Potion in the basement once a year at 
Dudley's birthday.

And this is the way the next ten years pass till Harry enrolls at 
Hogwarts. Once in the school there is no danger for him, Dumbledore 
himself can watch over the kid. But how to protect him till he gets 
there? For, to tell you the truth, the Hogwarts' Express doesn't 
strike me as the safest guard against Dark Powers. The Dementors at 
least seem to be able to hitch a ride whenever the fancy strikes 
them. So, the faithful Arabella goes along after Harry disguised as a 
dimpled trolley lady. There's no harm in it. She needn't actually 
discuss events of the wizarding world with anyone, need she?

No. Till Harry's third trip to Hogwarts that is. For right in the 
middle of it the train stops, the lights go off, screams slash the 
air. "No, no,no. . ." Her head reels, her heart pounds, horrible 
flashbacks shoot through her mind. . .  It's like then. . . Just like 
* then*! Terror, uncertainty, oh, no, it couldn't be. . . ! And then, 
the compartment door opens and there appears a face. A familiar face. 
A face from the Past. Remus Lupin is looking right at her. She feels 
faint, sick. She's back, back in a world she tried so hard to rid 
herself of. . .

"Remus! You! Here! Oh, Remus what's going on?"

He avoids her eyes. "Nothing. Azkaban guards searching the train. 
It's nothing. Nothing."

"Searching the train? But. . . why?"

And then he tells her. It's Sirius, he says. They're looking for 
Sirius. Sirius escaped.

Ah, the tormented memories that flood her! The anguish she has tried 
to suffocate for so long. . . He's free. He's out. He's * real* again.

And then, just to give her a little more angst, she ran into a 
Dementor. Terrorised shrieks fill her ears. A steely voice repeats 
itself again and again pounding at her eardrums. . . "It was he, 
Bella, it was he. . ." And is it this that Sirius has been locked up 
with for 12 year? No. . .!

So, you see her we have the real solution to THE CASE OF THE LOST 
SMILE. Not guilt over not supporting her man. Not reawaked longing 
for his embrace. No, things are much more sinister indeed. What the 
trolley witch is facing is clearly Resurfaced Fears, Long Lost Love 
and (most importantly) Conflicting Loyalties. Who shall she support? 
The Light Side or the Man She Loves? This is the real question she 
ran away from so long ago and this is what she will return to 
Dumbledore's side to at last face up to.

But, meanwhile what's happening to Campanula? According to Exchanged 
Lives she's the on with the centaur adventures. (I mean, isn't it 
obvious? She's plainly got a thing for animal?men.). But, no, she is 
not abducted into a dark Forest by a rampaging Polygonatum after 
Tragic Wedding Incident. I don't know how Centaurs behaved 2,500 
years ago, but these days they are civilized and masters of savoir 
vivre. They call a lady up and politely ask her out to tea and 
crumpets. And what's more they'll usually give her a really good time 
too, though she might have to put up with bitter tea, all the sugar 
lumps having mysteriously disappeared from the bowl. . . 

You should have done your year calculating better, Elkins. Firenze 
could not possibly be the half?centaur son of Lily's old friend. If 
he were that would make him 9 years old at the most in PS/SS and, 
well, I don't know much about centaur life expectancy, but I've 
always had the impression it was a good deal longer that humans', in 
which case 9 is not a very advanced age at all-- certainly not one at 
which a centaur might have a defined political conscience and the 
strength to defy his elders. However I do agree that this political 
conscience needs examining a bit closer. Let's concider the 
possibilities. Who else do we know who at this time might have 
serious problems with the construction of magical society?


What does Campanula do after Remus leaves her? Does she sit around 
with folded arms? Does she smile bravely over trolleys of Chocolate 
Frogs? No, I say! Campanula is a woman of action.

Her whole life has been pulled asunder and the reason is apparent. It 
is not poor Remus who is to blame. He was only doing what he thought 
was best after all. He was acting out of Love. He was forced to cut 
off their relationship because of the Pressures of 
Society! "Slander!" Campanula fumes. "Injustice! Unfair 
Discrimination! And she promptly founds PHEW for the Protection 
against Hounding of Ennocent (her spelling's not too hot) Werewolves.

In her fight for Werewolf Rights she turns for the support of her old 
friend from Hogwarts, the Centaur from the Forest down the street, 30?
something?year?old Firenze and the two unite their powers to combat 
discrimination of every kind on both fronts: wizard and centaur. 
Unfortunately however, they don't have much luck to start with. 
Wizards won't listen and Centaurs just snobbily go on about their 
ways and shame and things like that. But Campanula and Firenze can 
wait. They know there's a new generation coming up, one that didn't 
grow up in the shadow of Voldemort, scared of everything Dark and 
Dangerous. That is why when, at the end of book 4, Campanula hears of 
an opening at Hogwarts for a DADA teacher, she jumps at the chance. 
Not only will she and Firenze be in constant contact and therefore 
better able to plan their campaign, but she will also be able to 
awaken all those searching young minds to this Outrageous Abuse. At 
at Hogwarts Campanula will meet Hermione Granger, an idealistic young 
witch, who has already started her own battle against elf enslavement 
and who will later prove an energetic advocate of Equality For All 
Magical Creatures.


Elkins brings up on last matter:
>People 
>are always wondering about Voldemort's wand.  Where could Peter have 
>hid it?  Is it possible that he had an accomplice?  Did he hand it 
>over to one of the other Death Eaters sometime between the muggle-
>blasting incident and his disappearance from sight?  And if so, then 
>how did he get it *back* to give it back to Voldemort in GoF?  
>Of course Peter didn't have an accomplice among the Death Eaters. 
>How could he have? Not one of them 
>seems to be smirking to himself there in the graveyard, 
>thinking: "Boy, Pettigrew really owes me one for giving him back 
that 
>wand a few months ago."  Not one of them seems to be expecting Big 
>Rewards from Voldemort for keeping his wand safe for the past 
>thirteen years.

Ah, yes. But not all the Death Eaters are there are they? Can't you 
think of anyone who certainly is expecting Really, Really Huge 
Rewards?


But Elkins thinks that it's somebody out side the Death Eater ranks 
who's responsible here and, commenting on my unfortunately misleading 
naming, continues:

>I *see.*  *Well!*  
>
>And you people always wonder why the poor little rat went bad?
>
>Okay.  That's it.  That.  Is.  *It.*  My sense of group loyalty 
towards all of those of us who...well,
>who Learned The Truth At Seventeen, shall we just say, has now been 
invoked.  It's been invoked with a vengeance.  This time around, 
Peter's getting the girl.  

Charis frowns slightly. Almost unnoticeable, tiny fluffy pink clouds 
glide softly into the baby blue sky. Truth? What Truth? You know, I 
had to learn a fair share of Truths myself long before I turned 
seventeen and the only comfort I've ever been able to find for this 
is that it forced me to become a stronger person?not a weaker one. I 
confess I don't like Pettigrew. In fact he's probably the only person 
in the books (Voldemort doesn't count) that I truly * dislike*. Not 
because he's scrawny and small and pathetic. Not because he's selfish 
and cowardly. No, not even because he's a deceitful, underhanded, 
double?faced piece of filthy vermin who put his own useless little 
self before his best friends' lives. (Yes, definitely feeling most 
uncharitable right now) I dislike Pettigrew exactly because, as far 
as I can see, he has absolutely no grasp on Truth wharsoever.

Obviously, Pettigrew's youth was not the hottest going. It sucks 
always being set up against friends more talented and admired than 
yourself, I know. You're constantly being ticked off by McGonagall 
because your snuff?box still squeaks if you give it dried corn and 
you just can't help wishing you could be something other than what 
you are?anything will do, anything! A Keeper in the Gryffindor 
Quidditch team, a debonair wizarding Don Juan, a monthly monster, 
just anything! And maybe there's even more there that we don't know 
anything about. Could there have been perhaps Troubles At Home? 
Remember how in PoA Fudge when talking about Peter's death mentions 
only his mother? Where' Dad? Another Crouch Sr? After all, no Death 
Eater is complete without his very own Disappointing Father.

So, Pettigrew had problems. But did he face up to them? Did he search 
for the Truth behind them? Did he realise that his friends weren't 
really to blame and that only he himself could prove himself just as 
worthy and endowed than them and gain respect by his exemplary 
choices? No. He decided to go over to Voldemort. He didn't see Truth. 
In fact when Truth came knocking on his front door Pettigrew screwed 
up his eyes, put his fingers in his ears and went to hide under the 
bed.

But you feel for Peter. You believe he really isn't to blame. You'd 
like to give him a passionate Cherchez to exonerate him from blame. 
OK. Fine. We can do that. No problem. <a malicious grin starts 
spreading slowly over Charis's face-- no, not mischievous. Malicious! 
A?he,he,he,he,he!>-- Peter can have his girl all right. And what a 
girl too! Dead sexy, heavy eye?lidded, black gowned. . . 

Elkins comments on 
>Peter's otherwise seemingly-
>uncharacteristic malice in the muggle-blasting incident.
>He's not usually a particularly malicious <she says>
>person, nor a vengeful one.  We've never once seen him take any 
other 
>violent action that is not either commanded or absolutely necessary 
>to ensure his own survival.

Oh, haven't we? Oh, * haven't* we I say? What if as early as Hogwarts 
he exemplified his innocent?preying nature, if indeed in secret? He 
occasionally engaged in a little hex?hurling maybe? Against nosy, 
dimm girls who caught him behind the greenhouses?

Pettigrew had a secret affair with Florence Lestrange.

Oh, yes! Why, who else could it be? Who else do we know who has a 
penchant for weedy, little S.Y.C.O.P.H.A.N.T.S.? Who else was a 
brooding, Dark follower since Hogwarts? Who else could easily twist 
little Peter into turning spy? Florence Lestrange recruited Peter 
into the DE ranks. He was more than eager to follow of course, but 
lacked the guts to seek Voldemort out himself. She brought him in 
contact with the Dark Lord and forced him to cultivate his evil 
Darkness.

A?BWA,HA,HA,HA,HA,HA,HA!!!

In case you're wondering, of course their love was Clandestine. 
Sirius be afraid to admit a Slytherin girlfriend to his friends? 
Noooo! But Peter? It goes without saying I think. They never told a 
soul and just to make their cover?up more effective Florence ordered 
Lestrange to marry her.

Elkins writes:
>How did Sirius find Peter so 
>quickly after the Potters' deaths?  Peter *wanted* to be 
>found, you see.  He was just *dying* to get some payback for Sirius 
>stealing his girl back when they were sixteen years old.

Yes, of course Peter wanted to be caught by Sirius that night. No, 
not for payback over old girlfriend. It was his only chance of 
survival. Sirius was witness against him. He had to go. And Peter 
needed an alibi, too, and an effective disappearance. But do you 
think he came up with this elaborate plan himself? Silly, little 
Peter? No, it was Flo who thought it up. Scheming, ingenious, nasty 
Flo. For Pettigrew ran straight to her after Voldemort was destroyed. 
He was terrified, petrified! "What to do? What to do, Flosie, dear?" 
She gave him a good hard slap on each cheek and handed her orders 
out. Then, taking her master's wand she rounded up two more DE and 
headed off to find Frank Longbottom. The Cruciatus curse was cast 
using that very wand (hence the horrible result?it isn't any wand 
that can do that. You need a really strong one.) When the Magical Law 
Enforcement Squad came and rounded them up it was young Crouch who 
happened to be holding it. And he never let go of it, ever. Not in 
Azkaban, not when he returned home, never. Until, 13 years later, the 
Dark Lord came to find him and demand his help in a plot to resurrect 
him to power.


And that's about it I think.

>-- Elkins, wading wearily back to shore while muttering darkly to 
>herself: "Never.  Never again.  Never again will I set foot on 
>someone else's SHIP.  Never again am I leaving land.  Never, never, 
>never, never, never..."

That's all right. No offence taken or anything. But thanks for the 
canons. And glad we could give you a ride.

Oh, and thanks for the laughter too. `Cos I really was howling over 
your post. Did me good!

Charis Julia waves wildly as the E.L.G.I.N.M.A.R.B.L.E.S. pulls away 
from the shore, a seriously exited bunny clapping it's hands at her 
side. Still smiling she glances down at it. "What, you're still 
here?" She frowns. She growls. She smirks. As the ship disappears 
round a cliff a sickening plop reaches Elkins ears.

BWA,HA,HA,HA,HA,HA,HA!!!






From ch001d4564 at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Mar  8 20:58:05 2002
From: ch001d4564 at blueyonder.co.uk (Martin Hooper)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:58:05 +0000
Subject: Uploaded pic
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020308205709.009e9410@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk>

Just in case anyone wants to know what I look like I just uploaded a pic 
into both the mainlist and this ones Members pics folder...

Filename is martin hooper.jpg


Martin Hooper
AIM:martinjh99 ICQ: 43933602
http://www.martinjh.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk




From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  8 21:27:55 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 21:27:55 -0000
Subject: Here's a good one-completely OT
In-Reply-To: <a69lso+jj5i@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6bacr+u1pa@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "nlpnt" <nlpnt at y...> wrote:

> NOW FOR THE BEST PART... 
> After the lawyer cashed the check, the insurance company had him 
> arrested on 24 counts of arson! With his own insurance claim, and 
> testimony from the previous case being used against him, the lawyer 
> was convicted of intentionally burning his insured property and 
> sentenced him to 24 months in jail and a $24,000.00 fine.

LMAO, but it has to be an urban legend. If the guy himself set 
the "series of small fires" (LOL), his claim would be invalid. Just 
to be sure, though, I checked with Snopes:

http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/cigarson.htm

Sho 'nuff, it's just a myth. Good one, though! ^_^

--Anna




From Seiryuu_Avatar at msn.com  Fri Mar  8 23:38:39 2002
From: Seiryuu_Avatar at msn.com (Brian Yoon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:38:39 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Agatha Christie
References: <a6aa07+e7pk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <018601c1c6fa$669be160$7f28fea9@yoonabomber>

> David said:
>
> A
> g
> a
> t
> h
> a
> C
> h
> r
> i
> s
> t
> i
> e
> s
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
> s
> p
> a
> c
> e
>
> Well, in And Then There Were None, nobody did it, apparently.  In
> Roger Ackroyd, the narrator did it.  In Orient Express, everybody did
> it.

My fault if I'm not understanding you correctly, but didn't the judge kill
everyone in And Then There Were None?  I thought he left a suicide note,
that comes after the ending.  That was a fairly cool book.

Brian Yoon




From frodoyoda at aol.com  Sat Mar  9 00:09:05 2002
From: frodoyoda at aol.com (hp_groups)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 00:09:05 -0000
Subject: Here's a good one-completely OT
In-Reply-To: <a69lso+jj5i@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6bjr1+sf58@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "nlpnt" <nlpnt at y...> wrote:Only in 
>America........... 
>A Charlotte, North Carolina lawyer purchased a box of very rare and 
>expensive cigars then insured them against fire, among other things. 

I live very near Charlotte, NC, and have, in fact, heard that story 
before. It was in... a book of North Carolina urban legends.
So yea, I think it's pretty safe to assume it's not true.
Although, if it could happen anywhere, it would be here in NC, one of 
the leading producers of tobacco products in the world.

Molly (who was very excited to see North Carolina in a post!!)






From virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  9 01:47:43 2002
From: virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com (virtualworldofhp)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 01:47:43 -0000
Subject: New Fan Art (from Announcements)
Message-ID: <a6bpjv+rvh2@eGroups.com>

From: "lmrourke" <lmrourke at yahoo.com>
> Hi, Everyone!  I've added a few new drawings to my collection at 
> HPforGU-Graphics.  I have a new drawing of a slightly older Ginny 
> looking elegant but still cute attending a Yule Ball, a teen drawing 
> of Seamus Finnegan and an older Harry, Hermione and Ron pic together 
> called "Best Friends".  Hope you like them! ^_^  You can view them in 
> my folder (LMR's Artwork) at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownUps-Graphics/files/FanArt/

All I can say is...WOW!  I'd never looked at these drawings before,
but I can you have definitely got some AWESOME talent for drawing,
Lisa.  I adore your colored drawing of Lupin, because that is exactly
how I would picture him.  The only thing I noticed was that Harry (and
some other characters) seemed to look much older than they are
"now"--was this intentional?  Regardless, those are some magnificent
drawings!!

-Megan





From keegan at mcn.org  Sat Mar  9 02:03:44 2002
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:03:44 -0800
Subject: What is there to see in the midwest
In-Reply-To: <a6bpjv+rvh2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020308175914.00a27680@mail.mcn.org>

We got our packet so we will officially be selling at the Pennsic Wars this 
August.  Now, it's a long way from California to Pennsylvania and there 
must be some interesting stops along I-80.  Please tell me there are...

We made the drive a few years ago and all I can remember is Kansas...miles 
and miles of Kansas corn fields.

We'll probably drive directly there but we'd like to stop and see some fun 
things on the way back.

Clues appreciated!   Yes, I know it seems early but time moves a lot faster 
these days than it did a few years ago.  Another thing my mom was right 
about...

Catherine in California



From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sat Mar  9 02:36:54 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 02:36:54 -0000
Subject: What is there to see in the midwest
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20020308175914.00a27680@mail.mcn.org>
Message-ID: <a6bsg6+s0mu@eGroups.com>

This subject heading sounds like the setup for a joke.  A very, very 
obvious joke.

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Catherine Keegan <keegan at m...> wrote:
> We got our packet so we will officially be selling at the Pennsic 
Wars this 
> August.  Now, it's a long way from California to Pennsylvania and 
there 
> must be some interesting stops along I-80.  Please tell me there 
are...

I've driven across the country 4 times and could do it 10 more 
without running out of things to see--even in the Midwest <g>.  I do 
recommend getting off the interstate and taking the old federal 
highways instead.  That's where the action is.  They are a little 
slower, but if you're looking for interesting places to stop, you 
will find more and you won't mind being slowed down anyway.

I also strongly recommend the AAA tour books, which will tell you the 
location and hours of The String Museum (world's biggest ball of 
string!) and The Biggest Fiberglass Muskie in the World and the 
like.  If you don't like that kind of thing, abandon all hope now.  
There's nothing else to see in Kansas except the Bob Dole Homestead.

Amy Z




From amy at pressroom.com  Sat Mar  9 03:20:38 2002
From: amy at pressroom.com (Amy Gourley)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:20:38 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Books books books! - Top 5?
References: <a69gge+uvsm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <026201c1c719$63410580$b17ba8c0@amy>

Oh, books-my favorite topic! I have so many favorites but here are 5 I like
1. Anne of Green Gables by L.M. Montgomery, actually any book by LMM
2. The Secret Diary of Adrian Mole age 13 3/8 by Sue Townsen and
sequels-hilarious!
3.Divine Secrets of Ya-Ya Sisterhood by Rebecca Wells.
4. Mitford series by Jan Karon
5. Evening Class by Maeve Binchy

As for books yet to read, you don't want to know! I have probably over a 100
here at home to read picked up at yard sales, book sales, used book
stores-I'm addicted to book sales! I am looking forward to reading the last
two books of the LOTR series and some Elizabeth Peters books which I've
heard great things about.

Amy
A lurker but trying to write more if I can keep up!






From ganvira at earthlink.net  Sat Mar  9 03:58:54 2002
From: ganvira at earthlink.net (Terry van Ettinger)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:58:54 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Voicelady's username
References: <id.08032002090625.00000@FPE>
Message-ID: <004201c1c71e$bb9476e0$0797cd18@charterpipeline.com>

Don't worry; I can't sing worth a sickle at the moment either  Give me a few
days though.....

Terry
----- Original Message -----
From: "voicelady" <voicelady at mymailstation.com>
To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 5:06 AM
Subject: Re:[HPFGU-OTChatter] Voicelady's username


> Easy enough question to answer - I am a voiceover actor.  If you live in
middle America, it's quite possible you've heard me.  I'm still hoping for a
national spot or a cartoon, though...
>
> Don't ask me to sing. LOL
>
> Jeralyn, the Voicelady
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Jeralyn, I love that username!  What is the significance?  Are you a
musician?
>
> Terry
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material
from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods --
MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
> Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> ____________________________________________________________
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




From amy at pressroom.com  Sat Mar  9 03:26:18 2002
From: amy at pressroom.com (Amy Gourley)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:26:18 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] It's a .....Weasly!!
References: <a69n9b+8rq8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <028001c1c71a$2dc5cf20$b17ba8c0@amy>

Mecki,
  He is so adorable! I just love red hair!

Amy





From racjom at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Mar  9 16:02:12 2002
From: racjom at yahoo.co.uk (racjom)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 16:02:12 -0000
Subject: Astrid Lindgren has been laid to rest
In-Reply-To: <a6artq+15n9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6dbm4+o6rc@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "pengolodh_sc" <pengolodh_sc at y...> wrote:
> Astrid Anna Emilia Lindgren died January 28th, after having lived 
her 
> whole life and having said all she had to say.  The public funeral 
> took place today, Friday March 8th, from Storkyrkan in Gamla Stan 
in 
> Stockholm.  She will be laid to rest in a private ceremony in 
Sm?land.
> 
> Today I cried a little.

 >snip article<
 
> Best regards
> Christian Stub?

Thank you for translating this article!

I was so sad in January when she died. Her Ronja, Pippi (Pika in 
Slovene) and the Lionheard brothers were definately some of my 
favourite characters when I was little. As far as children's books 
go - she wrote the best IMHO. This summer I reread them and enjoyed 
them as a grown up, too.

Aside from a wonderful writer, she was also a very special lady. 
(Which I know only because a guy called Marjan Marinchek (a fellow 
Slovenian) is one of her most fanatic fans - he has one of the 
biggest collection of her books (all the translations of Pippi from 
around the world) and has been to visit her a few times. I loved 
reading his interviews with her...)

Mojca, who cried a little yesterday, too.




From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Sat Mar  9 17:08:33 2002
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:08:33 -0000
Subject: For the plotless fanfic-writers out there
Message-ID: <a6dfih+t90@eGroups.com>

If you are in need of an evil plot for world domination, mayhap 
the "Villanous Plot Generator" may be of assistance:

http://www.seventhsanctum.com/gens/evilplot.html

Example of plot:
"Your magnificent scheme: exploit the imagination of a young science-
fiction writer, which allows you to create a magical focus, which 
allows you to pillage then the kingdom!"

Best regards
Christian Stub?




From ganvira at earthlink.net  Sat Mar  9 17:15:16 2002
From: ganvira at earthlink.net (Terry van Ettinger)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:15:16 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] What is there to see in the midwest
References: <4.2.0.58.20020308175914.00a27680@mail.mcn.org>
Message-ID: <007501c1c78d$fb606800$0797cd18@charterpipeline.com>

Where in California are you, Catherine?  I'm down here in Riverside, sort of
southeast of L.A.

Terry
> Catherine in California





From Ali at zymurgy.org  Sat Mar  9 17:32:41 2002
From: Ali at zymurgy.org (alhewison)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:32:41 -0000
Subject: HP Obsession - why?
Message-ID: <a6dgvp+udf4@eGroups.com>

Since reading the first 2 books, 3 years ago I have become obsessed 
by the HP series. I have reread and reread (at least 10 times), 
analysed, bored friends over the HP books. But why?

As a teenager (I'm 33 now), I got really into some bands, liked 
actors etc etc. This feels very different. I have always read alot, 
but I can't remember ever rereading a book so many times, and 
certainly not spending tonnes of time trying to predict the future, 
fathom out why someone did or said something.

My HP experience is unique for me - lots of my friends think it's 
very funny, and I nolonger dare mention the subject - unless they 
bring it up, when I try to sound offhand and unconcerned.

I know what I like about the books - the myths, characterisations, 
plot build up, Good v Evil, red herrings etc etc. But why the need to 
work it out? why do I get so frustrated by the inconsistencies?

I have only been a member of HPFGU for a few months, but what a 
relief. Not only had my Lily/Snape SHIP been thought of, it had been 
plotted out to unthought-of depths. I have been introduced to loads 
of new ideas (Fudge was always a bumbling, short-sighted appeaser to 
me, but I can at least understand now why others think he could be 
evil).

So now I wonder about everyone else on this list. Is the HP obsession 
new to others as well, or have you experienced this with other books, 
bands/ Star Trek etc. Is there a cure? Right now, a think that 
reading OoP might help, but I suspect I would then only want to read 
Book 6.

Ali

(feeling rather embarassed, but relieved about sharing her HP 
experience with other Potterologists - who will hopefully be 
understanding)






From ganvira at earthlink.net  Sat Mar  9 17:45:14 2002
From: ganvira at earthlink.net (Terry van Ettinger)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:45:14 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] HP Obsession - why?
References: <a6dgvp+udf4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <00b401c1c792$2b6b75e0$0797cd18@charterpipeline.com>

I have the same experience, as has a friend of mine whom I introduced to the
books a few months ago; we've even done free-form RP scenes of how certain
characters of our Dragon Inn group would react to various HP characters if
they ran into each other.  Since I've gotten in with HPFGU, I've shown her
posts that I found to be interesting (she doesn't have a computer, but she's
on Yahoo by Phone), and we're both desperately awaiting OoP.  Neither of us
can explain why we're so addicted, though.

Terry
> Since reading the first 2 books, 3 years ago I have become obsessed
> by the HP series. I have reread and reread (at least 10 times),
> analysed, bored friends over the HP books. But why?
>
> As a teenager (I'm 33 now), I got really into some bands, liked
> actors etc etc. This feels very different. I have always read alot,
> but I can't remember ever rereading a book so many times, and
> certainly not spending tonnes of time trying to predict the future,
> fathom out why someone did or said something.
>
> My HP experience is unique for me - lots of my friends think it's
> very funny, and I nolonger dare mention the subject - unless they
> bring it up, when I try to sound offhand and unconcerned.
>
> I know what I like about the books - the myths, characterisations,
> plot build up, Good v Evil, red herrings etc etc. But why the need to
> work it out? why do I get so frustrated by the inconsistencies?
>
> I have only been a member of HPFGU for a few months, but what a
> relief. Not only had my Lily/Snape SHIP been thought of, it had been
> plotted out to unthought-of depths. I have been introduced to loads
> of new ideas (Fudge was always a bumbling, short-sighted appeaser to
> me, but I can at least understand now why others think he could be
> evil).
>
> So now I wonder about everyone else on this list. Is the HP obsession
> new to others as well, or have you experienced this with other books,
> bands/ Star Trek etc. Is there a cure? Right now, a think that
> reading OoP might help, but I suspect I would then only want to read
> Book 6.
>
> Ali
>
> (feeling rather embarassed, but relieved about sharing her HP
> experience with other Potterologists - who will hopefully be
> understanding)
>
>
>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material
from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods --
MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
> Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> ____________________________________________________________
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




From keegan at mcn.org  Sat Mar  9 17:53:47 2002
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 09:53:47 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] What is there to see in the midwest
In-Reply-To: <007501c1c78d$fb606800$0797cd18@charterpipeline.com>
References: <4.2.0.58.20020308175914.00a27680@mail.mcn.org>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020309093324.00a4c230@mail.mcn.org>

At 09:15 AM 3/9/02 -0800, Terry asked:
>Where in California are you, Catherine?  I'm down here in Riverside, sort of
>southeast of L.A.
>
>Terry
> > Catherine in California

I live in the tiny hamlet of Albion.  Albion is on the Mendocino coast, 7 
miles south of Mendocino Village (where they filmed "Murder, She Wrote") 
and about 150 miles north of SF.  It's the sort of place where the grocery 
store and gas station are the same place and the post office shares 
quarters with the tiny hardware store.  When you go away on vacation, you 
make sure to tell the post mistress so someone knows when you're supposed 
to be back.  Oh, and you know your neighbors.  Big change from the SF bay 
area where we lived for years.

Just drove by your area last month on the way to Estrella.  Hadn't been 
through there in almost twenty years.  Wow!  The whole area has built up 
tremendously.

Catherine in California - just to differentiate me from the other 
Catherines on the HPFGU lists.




From keegan at mcn.org  Sat Mar  9 17:53:28 2002
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 09:53:28 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] HP Obsession - why?
In-Reply-To: <a6dgvp+udf4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020309094317.00a4f500@mail.mcn.org>

At 05:32 PM 3/9/02 +0000, Ali wrote:
>So now I wonder about everyone else on this list. Is the HP obsession
>new to others as well, or have you experienced this with other books,
>bands/ Star Trek etc. Is there a cure?

There is no cure!  Why look for a cure when it's such fun?

I'm an obsessive personality type.  When I like something, I really like 
it.  As a teenager, it was Star Trek.  In my twenties and thirties, it was 
the SCA.  Then, wildlife rehabilitation and now HP.

JKR has created a wonderful world with lots of shadowy areas to 
explore.  There's room for a multitude of interpretations.  I like the 
grittiness of the characters.  Even the best of the good guys isn't 
perfect.  There are bad guys who are gray, not black, with pasts that haunt 
them.  Hmmm, that describes the good guys, too.  There are more questions 
than answers which gives everyone a chance to play.

As an added bonus, technology has provided a great medium for people to 
exchange ideas quickly.  Back in my Trek days, sporadically published 
fanzines and the occasional convention seemed to be the only way to meet 
other fans and exchange theories.  Between lists like the HPFGU lists and 
the incredible fan fiction sites like Fiction Alley, a person can happily 
indulge their obsession with a very supportive group.  It's great.  Some 
times it swallows up too much of my free time, but....

Catherine in California




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Sat Mar  9 13:23:05 2002
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:23:05 EST5EDT
Subject: HP Obsession - why? 
Message-ID: <44FF0B253D@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

All right.....here's why I think I'm obsessed with Harry.

I was introduced to Harry during a very rough year (if not 
the worst year) in my life, the first year of my newly 
single life after spending many years with the man I 
worshipped (which included 4 years of marriage).  It was 
such an incredible escape for me.  I knew that if I could 
get through the day of work, I could go home, climb into 
bed and be immersed into a wonderful world where incredible 
characters lived.  It truly helped me through the darkest 
hours of my life.

I have been obsessed with things before.  In the past I 
spent years and tons of money on Duran Duran.  They 
wallpapered my room, they were permanently stuck on my 
turntable/tape deck/VCR and took up most of my spare 
"daydream" time.  After meeting the band a couple years ago 
and hanging out with them, the "fantasy" was kind of broken 
because I now know them as regular (though quite unique and 
TONS of fun) people.  

That can't happen with Harry.  The characters will never 
change for me.  Harry will always be brave, noble and 
sweet.  Lupin and Black will always be supportive and 
daring (and not to mention hotter than dragon's fire!).  
Ron and Hermione will always be loyal and courageous.  
Dumbledore will always be grandfatherly and brilliant.  
Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. (Sorry...watched The King and 
I last night...)

And the fact that these people will never change for me, it 
makes it even more....comfortable.  The Harry Potter series 
will always be like a warm quilt with a mug of hot 
chocolate on a cold, winter day. 

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements


In 1419, the Council issued the famously worded decree
that Quidditch should not be played "anywhere near any place
where there is the slightest chance that a Muggle might be
watching or we'll see how well you can play whilst chained
to a dungeon wall."



From plumeski at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  9 18:34:52 2002
From: plumeski at yahoo.com (GulPlum)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 18:34:52 -0000
Subject: HP Obsession - why?
In-Reply-To: <a6dgvp+udf4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6dkkc+b5di@eGroups.com>

"alhewison" <Ali at z...> wrote:

<snip>

> So now I wonder about everyone else on this list. Is the HP 
obsession 
> new to others as well, or have you experienced this with other 
books, 
> bands/ Star Trek etc. Is there a cure? Right now, a think that 
> reading OoP might help, but I suspect I would then only want to 
read 
> Book 6.

I'm very obssessive generally, and if I get enthusiastic over 
something, it will be to extremes.  Some would say that's pretty 
typical of 30-something males, but I've always been like that. 

Especially with book series. I can't remember half the book series 
I've read in my life, but if I read a book a like, I'll go through 
the series, then anything else the author has written, then anything 
about that author, then (nowadays, with the internet) anything about 
the fans, and so on it spirals. 

However, I'm also quite dogmatic about it: as soon as the author 
comes up with something I don't enjoy, even partially, I lose 
interest completely and revert to any other things I'm obssessive 
about (there are at least 3, all of which are currently languishing 
in the dungeons of my brain because HP has taken me over, lock, stock 
and barrel).

Lots of HP fans appear to be also Pratchett fans. I've tried several 
Discworld books but haven't been able to get into them at all. Though 
strangely that's not true of his other stuff. If I ever should click 
and get into Discworld, I'd probably be worse than most. :-)

Oh, and talking of HP obssessions: for those who don't follow the 
usual HP news sites, a little announcement: a few weeks back, I put 
up some audio clips of Daniel Radcliffe and Alan Rickman getting 
their gongs from the Variety Club. I promised video and pictures in 
the future, and now they're up: http://plum.cream.org/HP/vc2002.htm

(the phrase "seriously cute" appears in every email I've had from 
females since I put those pictures up a couple of days back). :-)






From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Mar  9 18:39:30 2002
From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:39:30 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: HP Obsession - why?
References: <a6dkkc+b5di@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <00c001c1c799$c0cd7aa0$271f86d9@monica>

Have you read Good Omens?
It's darker than discworld - because of who he's collaborating with

K
If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor.
http://minievil.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: GulPlum 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 6:34 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: HP Obsession - why?
  Lots of HP fans appear to be also Pratchett fans. I've tried several 
  Discworld books but haven't been able to get into them at all. Though 
  strangely that's not true of his other stuff. If I ever should click 
  and get into Discworld, I'd probably be worse than most. :-)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From ameliagoldfeesh at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  9 20:36:37 2002
From: ameliagoldfeesh at yahoo.com (ameliagoldfeesh)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:36:37 -0000
Subject: Top 5 (now 10) Books
Message-ID: <a6drol+m0ul@eGroups.com>

So many good books listed...some of which I'd forgotten. How could I 
forget ones such as The Neverending Story?  However I'll always love 
the movie more although one thing I found neat in the edition of TNS
I read was that it was printed in green and red- I opened the book
and said "Awesome!"

My favorites which I'd recommend to anyone are:

Watership Down by Richard Adams
         -I generally reread this book once a year- what's better
than a story of adventure, bravery, survival, homesteading and
cunning? Who can even remember the main characters are rabbits?

Swiss Family Robinson by Johann David Wyss
		-another story of adventure, survival and resourcefulness by a 
Swiss family named... 

Les Miserables by Victor Hugo
		-another one I read every year or so- if only because by the 
end of it I've gotten fuzzy on the beginning :)  Plus who can't love
a book where the main character isn't introduced until about 100
pages 
in?

In the Hands of Providence: Joshua Lawrence Chamberlin by Alice
	Rains Trulock, Alan T. Nolan 
		-A biography of a civilian Civil War Union general who was 
instrumental at Gettysburg and reported as dead at Petersburg (a
little prematurely).

The Claw and the Spiderweb by Valerie Reddix
		-A children's book I loved (and lost..er, misplaced). Haven't 
read it for years but it was a tale of two adventurers, a cat and an 
owl against an invasion from across the river.  I seem to recall a 
heroine of the story was Snowdrop, a beautiful snow owl, a distant 
relation of Hedwig perhaps?

Mornings on Horseback by David McCullough
	-Another history book, yet more evidence I majored in history at 
college.  A wonderful biography of a young Theodore Roosevelt, his
life up to age 28.  Unlike some unfortunate historians McCullough is 
most emphatically never a dry read. He has a true talent for bringing 
history to life.

I'd like to give The Fox and the Hound by Daniel Pratt Mannix an 
honorable mention as being both a wonderful book (on which the Disney 
movie was based) and the only book I can recall that made me cry. A 
much more naturalistic story of a pursuit of a fox by a hound and his 
master over the years.

In addition I'll read anything by Isaac Asimov (his three auto-
biographies are a laugh), Ray Bradbury, James Burke (of The Day the 
Universe Changed and Connections), and Jimmy Carter.  And of course
the Harry Potter books and Dylan's Writings and Lyrics-1962-1986. I'm
   
*still* waiting for the next edition of that one...

A Goldfeesh
     (sorry I rambled on for so long- but books *are* a favorite
topic unsurprisingly)
   
	Oh...nearly forgot Scaramouche by Rafael Sabatini.  I'll admit I 
love the book for the movie of the same name which starred the 
wonderfully swashbuckling Stewart Granger.  Points to anyone who 
recognizes that name. Yet another semi-obsession I get teased for.

Leaving with very sad Dylan quote...

	 Your sister sees the future
         Like your mama and yourself.
         You've never learned to read or write
         There's no books upon your shelf.
                 One More Cup of Coffee (Valley Below)





From ganvira at earthlink.net  Sat Mar  9 20:43:08 2002
From: ganvira at earthlink.net (Terry van Ettinger)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:43:08 -0800
Subject: Interesting
Message-ID: <00ec01c1c7ab$05756800$0797cd18@charterpipeline.com>

I use a screen reader to read the screen to me, and when the MoM comes up in
all caps it's rather comical; the screen reader doesn't realize it's an
abbreviation and pronounces it like it sounds.  I first noticed that with
Yahoo by phone, and again just now in one of the Sirius/Dumbledore posts.

Terry van Ettinger
Student of Potterology
E-mail: ganvira at earthlink.net
AOL IM: Kendra Mardek
MSN IM: ganvira at hotmail.com
Axe-Magic project e-mail: Axmagic at earthlink.net




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Sat Mar  9 20:58:23 2002
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:58:23 -0000
Subject: For the plotless fanfic-writers out there
In-Reply-To: <a6dfih+t90@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6dt1f+ra4l@eGroups.com>

Christian wrote:
> If you are in need of an evil plot for world domination, mayhap 
> the "Villanous Plot Generator" may be of assistance:
> 
> http://www.seventhsanctum.com/gens/evilplot.html
> 
Nice site!  But what has this to do with fanfic?

David, fully expecting that the whole world will be speaking 
Norwegian (on pain of death) by this time next Wednesday




From amy at pressroom.com  Sun Mar 10 03:18:45 2002
From: amy at pressroom.com (Amy Gourley)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:18:45 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] What is there to see in the midwest
References: <4.2.0.58.20020308175914.00a27680@mail.mcn.org>
Message-ID: <017901c1c7e2$4a089fa0$b17ba8c0@amy>

I'd be interested in answers to this too! My husband and I plan to take a
cross country trip in September-I am so excited! There's more than I thought
to see in South Dakota-I really want to see Mt. Rushmore, Wall Drug, and
DeSmet (Little Town on the Prairie) We will be driving from Virginia. Where
in PA are you going, Catherine? I'm orginally from PA.

Amy
>





From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Sun Mar 10 00:10:06 2002
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:10:06 -0000
Subject: Passive-Aggressive, Choice chicken remarks
Message-ID: <a6e88u+daul@eGroups.com>

Thank you to all who replied to my question.  You've got me worried 
now - I do that!

Choice
Liked the chicken site, Mike.  A few more:

Snape: That chicken has been crossing roads ever since it got here.

Trelawney: Imagine my surprise when, contemplating the Orb, I beheld 
the chicken making its way to the Further Side.  What bird could 
resist the promptings of Fate?

Lockhart: Chicken, Chicken, Chicken.  Yes, I know you wanted my 
autograph, but crossing the road isn't as good as winning Top Gear's 
Jaywalking Award.  Still, it's a start, it's a start.

Rita Skeeter: In a move that will doubtless cause raised eyebrows at 
the Department of Magical Transportation, Calypso, 3, was seen by 
usually reliable sources to be flouting convention by crossing the 
floor.  Although commentators will debate the reasoning behind this 
shock U-turn for years to come, one thing is certain: nothing will be 
the same again.

Dumbledore (twinkling): that reminds me of rather a good story I 
heard about the Phoenix, the Skrewt, and my brother Aberforth's 
goat.  (hrrm) Perhaps not now, though.

Bagman: Bet you Galleons to Knuts it can't get back again.

Arthur: really? It crossed the road?  How could it do that? 
Fascinating!

Fred: Ha ha!  Our fake wands are getting better, aren't they!

Ron: I dunno, maybe when we're all aurors we can work it out.

Hermione: *Honestly*, haven't *any* of you read 'Chickens, Their 
Transversals'?

Harry: (waves wand) Deanimagus (chicken turns into red-eyed snake-
man) Ha! Got you!

David




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Mar 10 06:18:02 2002
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 06:18:02 -0000
Subject: CA / Dream / Choice / Obsessions
Message-ID: <a6etqq+1rqa@eGroups.com>

Terry, there's a group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP4GU-California/ 
altho' no one has posted to it since December. Its Photo section has
a group pic of the Los Angeles Movie Outing.

I had a dream related to the Potterverse this morning: I was looking 
at a book of illustrations of JKR stories (canon), each drawing had a 
caption telling what book and chapter it was depicting, and some of 
them were from a short story titled "Severia" (By JKR!) which had 
been published only in some limited edition collection of one story 
each from several different writers, and I was furious that I had 
never heard of this addition to canon before, and desperate to find a 
copy to read. 

David Frankis wrote:

> How does choice work? If there is an element of causation to 
> choice, in what sense is it choice? If not, in what sense is it
> not random?

Martin Gardner, who used to write the Mathematical Recreations column 
in Scientific American, wrote a book titled WHYS OF A PHILOSOPHICAL 
SCRIVENER. (amazon.com: 
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312206828/qid=1015734035/sr=1-
1/ref=sr_1_1/104-0359764-0840716 ) 

When it was new, I stumbled across it in a bookstore (my recollection 
was 1982, but the above says (c) 1983 -- I'm pleased I remember so 
close!), I bought a copy, read it about a million times over the next 
two years, and talked about it constantly. I disagree with a lot of 
his answers, but Gardner gives very clear explanations of several of 
the great unanswerable questions of philosophy. My own obsession is 
The Problem of Evil, but the one you ask about is The Question of 
Free Will. The reason I didn't reply to your post until now was that 
I was too lazy to seek the book from the bookcases in the living room.

Chapter 6 is "FREE WILL: Why I am not a Determinist or a 
Haphazardist". He says: "The thesis of this chapter, although 
extremely simple and therefore annoying to most contemporary 
thinkers, is that the free will problem cannot be solved because we 
do not know exactly how to put the question.... "

More quotation: "Yet when we try to put it into words, to define 
human consciousness and its incredible ability to make choices, we 
come up against one of Immanuel Kant's most notorious antinomies. Our 
attempt to capture the essence of that freedom either slides off into 
determinism, another name for destiny, or it tumbles over to the side 
of sheer caprice.... When we try to define it within a context of 
determinism, it becomes a delusion, something we think we have but 
don't really. When we try to define it within a context of 
indeterminism, it becomes equally illusory, a choice made by some 
obscure randomizer in the brain which functions like the flip of a 
coin. It is here, I am convinced, that we run into a transcendent 
mystery -- a mystery bound up, how we do not know, with the 
transcendent mystery of time."

David Frankis wrote:

> I think this cultural difference is probably more significant than 
> that across the Atlantic (or Pacific, Tabouli?), or between liberal
> and conservative, for our discussions. As scientists here, we are 
> guests in the natural territory of the artists/humanitarians, and 
       It's 'humanists' not 'humanitarians'
> sometimes struggle to cope with the habits of thought assumed 
> natural. This is particularly the case when we discuss the 
> processes that are involved in reading and interpreting the books. 
> IMO, the scientists view it as mostly passive, sitting at JKR's 
> feet to understand her world, so to speak, while the artists see it
       and 'art critics' or 'art historians' not artists
> as active, where the readers use canon to invent their own world.
> In consequence those with a scientific background tend to make a 
> sharp distinction between interpreting canon and writing fanfic; 
> those with a humanities background don't and indeed can't.

Erm, David, I consider myself to be on the Science side of The Two 
Cultures (I am No Good at Math, having passed Calculus on the *third* 
try but not having *understood* it any better than the first two, but 
I majored in Biology and became a programmer, and I am No Good at 
Humanities and Arts either) and my role in HPfGU is what you ascribe 
to the Humanities types. Surely *real* Humanities types would be 
psychoanalyzing the author from the work, explaining how the novel is 
a model of class warfare or patriarchy, unravelling little strings of 
the text that can be proclaimed as influences from past literature or 
current pop culture... 

Two bits of Real Lit that I recall from the main list are when IIRC 
Lumos Dei asserted that the Expecto Patronus incantation has the 
symbolic meaning of I confidently await my father and is the key to 
the whole Potter phenomenom which is about our fatherless culture, 
and the mention of book author Elizabeth Schafer saying that Harry 
misses his mom and dad but *has* them in the form of MoM and DADA. 
IMHO and IIRC the list created both those suggestions with a contempt 
that they did NOT deserve: part of what makes a book rich is what 
readers can take out of it, even things that the author never put in 
it. Not that it seems too big a reach to imagine that a new single 
mother might be influenced by ideas of fatherlessness.

Ali Hewison wrote:

> Is the HP obsession new to others as well, or have you experienced 
> this with other books, bands/ Star Trek etc. Is there a cure? 

I was constantly obsessed with stories from books when I was a child, 
and in my daydreams I inserted myself into them. I cannot remember 
them all, but LOTR was one. I fell in love with a Prince of Rohan 
when I was 10, and now I can't even remember  his name, or anything 
attractive about him except that I rode into battle with him. I was 
interested in the Middle Ages, Classical Greece, and Ancient Egypt. I 
was probably 12 when  I fell in love with Richard Coeur de Leon, as 
the more chivalric character in fiction rather than the dishonest 
oafish bully of real history, and I read in biographies about his 
'homosexuality' ('gay' was not yet a word) and editted my daydreams 
so that I was a page *boy* he took an interest in, but I was very 
ignorant and naive at that age in that era and had trouble figuring 
out how two males could have sex together. (I mentioned the latter 
before, for a question about how I became interested in slash.)

I became a trekkie in junior high (second season of the Original 
Trek). I wrote fanfic before I ever knew it was called fanfic, but 
really I was MORE into the social part, sharing the obsession with my 
junior high girl friends, than into Strek itself. Then I discovered 
Strek conventions and fanzines, then SF conventions and fanzines, 
joined LASFS (Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society) and devoted the 
next twenty years of my life to the social aspects of sf fandom. At a 
certain time, I just got bored and drifted away and now I only go to 
LASFS once or twice a year... and I don't know whether it was them or 
me that changed. 

I try to remember if I have been as obsessed with any other work of 
fiction in my adult life as I am with HP, and (admittedly my memory 
is failing on me) all I can think of one of the RPGs I'm in, where I 
got so interested in one of my PCs that I wrote the saga of his whole 
genealogy, including an entire story about his uncle, who went Viking 
before my PC was ever born, and never came back... but travelled off 
having adventures with magical beings from Byzantium through Araby 
all the way to China and Japan.

More of my obsessions in adult life have been about NON-FICTION 
books. Does high school count? If yes, that is when I stumbled across 
the (first edition) REAL MAGIC by Isaac Bonewitz. Next, POWERS OF 
MIND by 'Adam Smith'. Later, WHYS OF A PHILOSOPHICAL SCRIVENER 
(above). I am very ashamed to admit that I inflicted constant talk 
about Wicca on all my associates when I first joined a Wiccan study 
group. A temporary obsession with Tarot cards, which started when I 
became Central Mailer of a Tarot m2m on a dare, and ended when I 
handed over the m2m to a new CM. Probably others that don't spring to 
mind just yet. 




From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com  Sun Mar 10 08:29:46 2002
From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (aberforths_goat)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 08:29:46 -0000
Subject: Emergency - please send vibes!
Message-ID: <a6f5hq+6qq4@eGroups.com>

Hi guys!

I just spilled three deciliters of tea over my laptop - about one 
hour before I'm due to preach a sermon at my church. I had just 
finished writing when it happened - and the notebook died before I 
could make backups. (The hard disk is otherwise backed up nicely - 
but all I have left of the sermon are some incomplete notes. I'm 
writing from my server.)

The notebook is now sitting in the bathroom next to a dryer, and I'm 
trying to stay calm.

calm.

calm.

calm.

...

btw, I may be gone for a while.




From macloudt at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 10 11:02:05 2002
From: macloudt at hotmail.com (Mary Jennings)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:02:05 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Emergency - please send vibes!
Message-ID: <F32afeJOu7KDSpCW4uF0000f158@hotmail.com>

A panicky goat wrote:

>I just spilled three deciliters of tea over my laptop - about one
>hour before I'm due to preach a sermon at my church. I had just
>finished writing when it happened - and the notebook died before I
>could make backups. (The hard disk is otherwise backed up nicely -
>but all I have left of the sermon are some incomplete notes. I'm
>writing from my server.)
>
>The notebook is now sitting in the bathroom next to a dryer, and I'm
>trying to stay calm.

Lapsed Catholic reporting for duty, Sir!  Pleas to St. Jude (patron saint of 
hopeless causes) are on the way.  After all, Jude and I vibe with each other 
alarmingly often.

Mary Ann
(who spent a total of 11 years in Catholic schools but doesn't know all the 
prayers of the Rosary)

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com




From miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au  Sun Mar 10 12:13:16 2002
From: miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au (storm)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:13:16 +1000
Subject: Emergency - please send vibes!
References: <1015757309.731.32032.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <00ee01c1c82c$fd4d43a0$0fcf8ec6@storm>

>
> Hi guys!
>
> I just spilled three deciliters of tea over my laptop - about one
> hour before I'm due to preach a sermon at my church. I had just
> finished writing when it happened - and the notebook died before I
> could make backups.

Crickey Mike! I thought someone had an accident or got sick or something!

<g> Well I'm glad it's only a computer emergency. I hope the hairdryer does the
trick and both the computer and your sermon are sorted.

storm, thinking calm and warming thoughts for the Goat's computer and hoping he
does not intend to sucisde by exposure.




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 10 12:06:40 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:06:40 -0000
Subject: Emergency - please send vibes!
In-Reply-To: <00ee01c1c82c$fd4d43a0$0fcf8ec6@storm>
Message-ID: <a6fi8g+hino@eGroups.com>

Mike panicked:

> > I just spilled three deciliters of tea over my laptop - about one
> > hour before I'm due to preach a sermon at my church. I had just
> > finished writing when it happened - and the notebook died before I
> > could make backups.

Storm, who has such odd priorities that she'd probably also rather be 
expelled than killed <g>, wrote:
 
> Crickey Mike! I thought someone had an accident or got sick or 
>something!

I'd probably rather break a leg than have to stand up in front of a 
crowd to say something wise sans notes.

Amy Z
who's had all too many nightmares about just that happening




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Mar 10 18:44:58 2002
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:44:58 -0000
Subject: Emergency - please send vibes!
In-Reply-To: <a6fi8g+hino@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6g9ja+vgt0@eGroups.com>

Oh, Mike, I hope you were able to reconstruct your sermon before 
having to speak it. When I saw a Reply from lupinesque, I thought she 
might be offering to e-mail her sermon to you, which would probably 
be a funny (funny ha-ha) combination.

Amy z wrote:

> I'd probably rather break a leg than have to stand up in front of a 
> crowd to say something wise sans notes.
> Amy Z's had all too many nightmares about just that happening

I can't remember if I've ever had the supposedly extremely common 
nightmare about arriving in class to take a Final Exam and suddenly 
realizing that one has not studied... has not attended the class all 
term... doesn't even know what it is a class IN! I did read an 
anecdote from a professor reporting that after 25 years of teaching, 
during which he kept having that nightmare, he had just 'graduated' 
to having a new nightmare: arriving in class to stand at the lectern 
and suddenly realize that he had no lecture notes, no lesson plan, 
didn't even know what subject he was supposed to be teaching! He 
concluded that it had taken his unconscious mind 25 years to learn 
that his daily circumstances had changed.

btw I might not be in chat at all today, certainly I don't be in chat 
for long, because I have to go to a birthday party this afternoon 
(PST). 




From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com  Sun Mar 10 19:38:15 2002
From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:38:15 +0100
Subject: Vibes worked! / Choice
References: <a6fi8g+hino@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <003101c1c86b$22ce3600$0200a8c0@shasta>

HUGS ALL ROUND!

Amy Z, who's had all too many nightmares about just that
happening, reckoned she

> 'd probably rather break a leg than have to stand up in front
of a
> crowd to say something wise sans notes.

My point exactly. That was one of the more, um, *challenging* 45
minutes I've spent in a long time. It is certainly a very
efficient way of waking up quickly.

Anyway, Saint Jude seems to be sucker for Anabaptists, cause at
10:10 my notebook suddenly resurrected itself. 10 minutes later I
was hurtling down the hill on my race bike and by 10:25 I was in
church acting debonair. (The really odd thing was that I was
talking about trust, even when trust seems irrational. I believe
the technical word for this is "weird." And no, I'm *not* making
the whole thing up!)

Anyway, a word of advice: don't try this at home, kids. Leave it
to us religious professionals ... <dour grin>

I got to spend 2 1/2 hours this afternoon taking apart the whole
machine - including the keyboard, key by key - washing each piece
and putting it all back together. Not *fun,* exactly, but
considering what I thought was going to happen (and that
everything, except for one mouse button and the F8 key, still
works), very satisfying.

BTW, it's nice to have someplace to scream when one is going
nuts.

* * * * * *

CHOICE

Rita's quote from Gardner was terrific. (And, btw, make her claim
to be a scientific philistine sound quite as preposterous as
David's.) And it's the point I've been stuck on since I was 20.
Try to explain freedom and you're stuck either with random,
inexplicable actions - or with deterministic, inexplicable
actions. Neither option is particularly satisfying.

OTOH, no matter what we make of it all, we still have to decide
what to do with ourselves - and no amount of determinism could
ever remove the fact that we can, must and will make decisions as
if they were free. Even if they aren't.

Baaaaaa!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, who would like to point out
that he has never had any dealings whatsoever, free or
determined, with those blasted Screwts.)
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that
may not have been bravery...."





From jdumas at kingwoodcable.com  Sun Mar 10 19:47:39 2002
From: jdumas at kingwoodcable.com (Katze)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:47:39 -0600
Subject: Chat?
Message-ID: <3C8BB85B.9E80CEB1@kingwoodcable.com>

Hi everyone!

I'm just wondering...if the Sunday chat is planned for today? If yes,
what time? 

Take care!
-Katze (littterbox1974 on yahoo)



From saitaina at wizzards.net  Sun Mar 10 19:48:10 2002
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:48:10 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Chat?
References: <3C8BB85B.9E80CEB1@kingwoodcable.com>
Message-ID: <014701c1c86c$82ed56a0$504e28d1@oemcomputer>

Sunday chat is usually planned for every Sunday unless we have problems getting in (and you'll know when that happens by the list of frantic emails).  Chat usually starts around 11am pacific time but a good time to show up is 1pm pacific as that's when most people are there.

Saitaina
*****
Lucius let his eyes drop to the dragon pendent around his neck, Lucius' Christmas gift to him. A small silver dragon curled around a golden lion. His eyes went back up to Draco's and he sighed. "Keep him safe too. The wizarding world needs it's heroes."-"The End of the Beginning", Saitaina, http://www.schnoogle.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 10 20:46:29 2002
From: dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com (Elizabeth Sager)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:46:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: what is there to see in the Midwest
In-Reply-To: <1015669594.411.20604.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020310204629.4265.qmail@web20404.mail.yahoo.com>

A whole lot of nothing!

Catherine wrote:
<<Now, it's a long way from California to Pennsylvania
and there must be some interesting stops along I-80. 
Please tell me there are...>>

There's the I-80 truck stop. Its huge, and really kind
of cool. When you drive through Iowa City, you'll be
able to see the Coralridge mall which is the largest
mall in Iowa. I love to shop there, but hardly ever
get to because I live an hour and a half away from it.


And then there's me. If anyone's ever driving along
I-80 and sees a turn off for DeWitt, that's my town.
:D You might see one for Davenport or Eldridge first,
however. I live in the Eldridge direction. 

<<We made the drive a few years ago and all I can
remember is Kansas...miles and miles of Kansas corn
fields.>>

Iowa has corn. Kansas has wheat. Nebraska has a whole
lot of NOTHING. Flat land.

<<We'll probably drive directly there but we'd like to
stop and see some fun things on the way back.>>

I don't know much except what's around me, but
Colorado's very pretty to drive through with the
mountains and everything. And I don't know if its on
I-80 or not, but Estes Park, CO has some great
shopping!

Liz (who lives in Iowa)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/



From keegan at mcn.org  Sun Mar 10 20:59:00 2002
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:59:00 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: what is there to see in the Midwest
In-Reply-To: <20020310204629.4265.qmail@web20404.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1015669594.411.20604.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020310125111.00a96820@mail.mcn.org>

At 12:46 PM 3/10/02 -0800, Elizabeth wrote:
>A whole lot of nothing!
>Catherine wrote:
><<Now, it's a long way from California to Pennsylvania
>and there must be some interesting stops along I-80.
>Please tell me there are...>>

Lol!

OK.  I'll take someone else's advice and bug my Triple A guys in Fort Bragg 
for some tour books.  The closest big city to Coopers Lake will be 
Pittsburgh.  The closest town is Slippery Rock.   I think there are some 
antique stores close to the site but, once there, we won't get out unless 
it's to make a mad run to the bank for change.

Cross country driving is not one of my favorite things but if that's what 
needs to get done then...

So, for those folks on the list who are also in the SCA, if you're going to 
Pennsic, come on by and say hi.  It's not like we'll be too hard to 
find.  Look for the furniture people, Albion Works.

So far, my only firm plan is to see the Buffalo Bill museum in Wyoming.

Catherine in California





From triner918 at aol.com  Mon Mar 11 00:57:54 2002
From: triner918 at aol.com (triner2001)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:57:54 -0000
Subject: The Eyre Affair
In-Reply-To: <id.07032002193357.00000@FPE>
Message-ID: <a6gvei+vh1l@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "voicelady" <voicelady at m...> wrote:
> For anyone who's interested in a really good read, I'm currently 
engrossed in "The Eyre Affair" by Jasper Fforde.  It's only recently 
come out, so it is currently only available in hardback.  The 
protagonist is a literary detective named Thursday Next, and it's 
business as usual "that is, until someone begins murdering characters 
from works of literature.  When this madman plucks Jane Eyre from the 
pages of Brontee's novel Thursday faces the challenge of her 
career."  (This quote is taken directly from the book jacket.
> 


I've only just bought this yesterday myself!  I am loving it too!

Trina




From punkieshazam at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 11 03:25:00 2002
From: punkieshazam at yahoo.com (punkieshazam)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 03:25:00 -0000
Subject: What is there to see in the midwest
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20020308175914.00a27680@mail.mcn.org>
Message-ID: <a6h82c+fkfk@eGroups.com>

- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Catherine Keegan <keegan at m...> wrote:
> We'll probably drive directly there but we'd like to stop and see 
some fun 
> things on the way back.

Nitpicky detail: 80 goes through Nebraska, not Kansas. If you are 
really determined to go through Kansas on 70, there is a folkart 
place which is clearly marked with an interstate sign. It got a lot 
of press in one of the Denver papers a few years ago. However, I 
recommend 80. You don't have to go through St. Louis and Kansas City 
and other traffic jams further east.

In Nebraska there is a place called Carhenge, a lot of 50's type HUGE 
cars placed in the exact positions as the stones in Stonehenge. It is 
north of Alliance. There is a website: www.carhenge.com 

Don't do SCA anymore, but hope your time at Pennsic is profitable.

Punkie




From morrigan at byz.org  Mon Mar 11 09:32:43 2002
From: morrigan at byz.org (Morrigan //Vicki//)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:32:43 -0800
Subject: what is there to see in the Midwest
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20020310125111.00a96820@mail.mcn.org>
Message-ID: <NFBBLPEOCLIKCDBACHIBIEMLDCAA.morrigan@byz.org>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Catherine Keegan [mailto:keegan at mcn.org]
>
> Cross country driving is not one of my favorite things but if that's what
> needs to get done then...

This seemed like a perfect opportunity to say my goodbyes for a bit.  I'll
be going nomail on Tuesday as I'm about to drive cross-country from San
Diego to Chicago by way of Dallas.  I just got the maps and tour books and
triptik from AAA and I'm finishing the packing.  Oh, and I'm going to
Disneyland one last time. :)  Then my little red car and I will hit the
road - onto the next life adventure.  I should be back in about 2 weeks or
so.  I'll miss you guys!

Vicki
~~~
Wanna read me babble on and on?
http://www.livejournal.com/users/morrigan_veela
Me, rated G: www.byz.org/~morrigan
Morrigan's Harry Potter Slash www.byz.org/~morrigan/hpslash.html




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 11 11:44:00 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:44:00 -0000
Subject: Emergency - choice
In-Reply-To: <a6g9ja+vgt0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6i5a0+e8au@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "catlady_de_los_angeles" <catlady at w...> 
wrote:

> Oh, Mike, I hope you were able to reconstruct your sermon before 
> having to speak it. When I saw a Reply from lupinesque, I thought 
she 
> might be offering to e-mail her sermon to you, which would probably 
> be a funny (funny ha-ha) combination.

Nice thought.  The problem is, I wasn't giving a sermon yesterday, and 
if I had been, at 10:00 a.m. on a Sunday, Mike's time (4 a.m. mine) 
I'd still be writing it . . . <g>

Wise ministers keep an extra ready-to-go service in a file at the 
church for emergencies such as suddenly falling ill or having a death 
in the famiy Sunday a.m., or a guest speaker failing to show up, for 
that matter.  I've never gotten it together to create one.  If I 
couldn't make it one Sunday that I was supposed to lead the service, 
they'd have to have a hymn sing or something.

Mike's theme reminds me of the experience of a friend of mine:  she 
wrote a sermon about trust and going with what life presents you even 
when it's completely screwed-up and unpredictable (sounds like an 
accurate description of most of life to me).  Fifteen minutes before 
the service, as she was getting her stuff settled on the pulpit, she 
realized she had everything else but had left the sermon at home.  
There was no hope of going back for it, as she lived over half an hour 
away.  She was running around trying to get a hold of her husband to 
e-mail it to her or read it to her over the phone, with no luck, when 
she realized that this was what her sermon was *about,* damn it.  She 
closed her office door, took a few deep breaths, wrote a sketchy 
outline of what she had been going to say, and went out and gave the 
sermon from those notes and memory.  She said she wouldn't want to 
repeat the experience, but she did get a lesson in exactly what she 
was trying to teach the congregation.

Choice:  Every time I've logged onto OTChatter I've thought, "must 
respond to David's choice post," but I've gotten stumped each time.  
Mike summed it up pretty well.  I stopped trying to wrap my mind 
around free will/determinism a long time ago because all I know is 
that I feel like I am standing on that cusp, deciding which way to 
go.  Even at those moments that I'm doing something I know I "don't 
want to do," e.g. I'm losing my temper even as a part of me is 
thinking "don't lose your temper," the feeling of being able to choose 
seems real.

On a tangential note, Clarence Darrow wrote a very famous summation in 
the Leopold and Loeb case in which he basically argued that they had 
no choice but to act as they did (L & L were two young men in the 
1920s who decided, as a sort of experiment, to kidnap and murder the 
cousin of one of them).  By their inborn dispositions, by their 
upbringing, by each previous "choice" they had made (each of which 
had been inevitable because of their dispositions and upbringing), 
each step of their way was determined.  He was a brilliant man, 
but I find it hard to imagine that he didn't understand the end 
result of his reasoning, which would be that there can be no criminal 
justice system whatsoever; no one is responsible for his/her actions. 
 Each of us has the ultimate defense "I did not choose my own path."  
I'm not talking about arguments in specific cases that a particular 
person, e.g. a psychotic, was unable to make moral choices, which is 
of course sometimes true; Darrow's argument was about 
choice/determinism per se and therefore universal.  I just came across 
a quote in a newspaper by a lawyer who said that that Darrow's 
work in that case was what made him decide to go into law, and I was a 
little frightened.  

Amy Z




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Mon Mar 11 13:35:18 2002
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:35:18 +1100
Subject: Davidian philosophy: Sci/Hum and choice
Message-ID: <007001c1c901$b1b27f20$2b24ddcb@price>

I've been having one of those times where I can't bear to start what I'm meant to be doing.  The result?  Checking HPFGU every couple of hours and, as procrastinato-avoidance bites deeper, writing copious posts.  Just as I was about to get cracking on "proper" writing, or worse still, tidying my flat (yik!) I thought... ah!  I never responded to David's philosophical posts!  Far more urgent task.  Yes.  Better switch my computer on again.

David:
> I get the reverse experience here too.  I have learnt a lot, reading 
the posts of those with a background in the humanities.<
>
>I think this cultural difference is probably more significant than 
that across the Atlantic (or Pacific, Tabouli?), or between liberal 
and conservative, for our discussions.  As scientists here, we are 
guests in the natural territory of the artists/humanitarians, and 
sometimes struggle to cope with the habits of thought assumed 
natural.<

Hmm... where are you classifying psychologists here?  In third year Psych we did an interesting little unit on science types vs humanities types; in fact, IIRC they were referred to as "convergers" and "divergers", which nicely fits in with David's comments here.  Something along the lines of "convergers start with the questions and find the answer; divergers start with the answer and find the questions", which could perhaps be parallelled (sp?  too many Ls, or is this just through exposure to non-doubling consonanted US English?) with the process of solving a mathematical problem versus analysing a novel.  We all did the test, and to no-one's surprise I came out as a diverger.  There's a fair bit of research on how these types differ, and how valid the categories are, though I can't remember that much.

What are these habits of thought assumed natural?

(and yes, I'd guess that the converger/diverger thing is probably a more significant division in the way you mean than cultural differences between Anglophone countries in terms of list discussions.  IMO the trans-Atlantic differences show up more in discussions of social issues and styles of expression).

> This is particularly the case when we discuss the processes 
that are involved in reading and interpreting the books.  IMO, the 
scientists view it as mostly passive, sitting at JKR's feet to 
understand her world, so to speak, while the artists see it as 
active, where the readers use canon to invent their own world.<
>
>In consequence those with a scientific background tend to make a 
sharp distinction between interpreting canon and writing fanfic; 
those with a humanities background don't and indeed can't.<

I think this links in to all that "there is nothing outside the text" and physics envy stuff.  Sciences as about making objective observations about the physical world and identifying pre-existing laws; humanities as an exploration of the constructed world in which all observation is fundamentally subjective, and therefore the observer is an active participant in generating meaning and interpretation.  Something like that.

David:
>How does choice work?  If there is an element of causation to choice, in what sense is it choice? If not, in what sense is it not random?
>
>So if Snape (but this really isn't a HP issue - name any fictional character with a bit of depth) left Death Eaterism because there was a bit of good still struggling to come out then his good side was winning out and always (but for circumstance) would do - but if it was because it was Monday and so he had changed his mind is that human?<

Ah, the free choice issue.  Interesting.  That's what the "free world" is meant to be about, isn't it?  Freedom of choice?  But how free are our choices really?  After all, we can only choose from what's on offer, and not all choices are equally accessible (the ol' what is easy versus what is right).  What about the freedom from having to make choices?  It's an awful lot of pressure, being completely responsible for yourself, having to live with the idea that *everything* that happens to you is the result of your own choices and can't be blamed on other people, the situation, etc.etc. (and therefore, by extension, everything bad that happens to you is Your Fault).  Hence the popularity of institutions and people which help shift or at least control the feelings of self-blame (the courts?  therapy? reassuring friends and relatives?) in the free world.

I suppose we could look at this in terms of motivating factors which impact on the choosing process.  When observing other people, it's usually easier to identify extrinsic motivators than intrinsic ones.  However, there seems to be an interesting value judgment placed on these in Anglophone society.  For some types of choice, intrinsic motivators are considered morally superior to extrinsic ones.

Take Snape, for example. Not long ago, people were taking issue with LOLLIPOPS (sacrilege!) on the grounds that leaving the Death-Eaters because he was "wanting to be on the same side as Lily" was a "bad" motivator, and one unlikely to be of any lasting worth (i.e. if that was *all* he wanted, who's to say he won't just swap sides again when he develops a crush on Mrs Lestrange?).  Extrinsic motivator, and therefore lightweight, lacking integrity and permanence, fickle, self-interested, etc.etc.

(I should add at this point that in my version of LOLLIPOPS it's nowhere near that simple.  I was being crudely misrepresented!  Maligned!  Misinterpreted!)

OTOH, the same people thought that Snape deciding to leave the Death Eaters because of a *moral* crisis about Voldemort's activities (intrinsic motivator) was far more palatable.  It would, they argued, show Snape to be a genuine man, of depth and conviction and strong moral values.

Interesting, eh?  Upholding a principle for its own sake is a sign of integrity; making decisions based on what benefits you personally in a particular situation is morally dubious, perhaps because it implies that your intrinsic motivator is self-interest not the greater good.  (Is that universalism I see before me?).  Apparently, then, it's the intrinsic motivator behind your actions that really counts.

Of course, the intrinsic/extrinsic division isn't that simple, but it seems to be important nonetheless.  In fact, the problem with a moral code based around people's intrinsic motivations is just that - it *isn't* that simple.  Extrinsic motivations, where your choice gets you something concrete, are easier for people to identify and understand than intrinsic motivations.  Then again, the higher status accorded to intrinsic motivations in our society means that people are inclined to look for them and attribute their behaviour to them, so as to appear to have more depth and integrity.

(for example, compare a doctor whose motivation for studying Medicine was making lots of money and gaining high status with a doctor whose motivation was becoming a healer who helps other people.  Not much contest, is there?  Medical students know this.  Behind the scenes some of the doctors I knew at the start of their degree admitted that they'd done Medicine because they got the marks, and it was a high-status, high-earning profession, but they'd never admit this on camera, so to speak, and they often hastened to add that of course the real reason was that they wanted to help others)

(Note also, of course, that different cultures cut the morality meatloaf in different places.  Different societies embrace different types of motivators as "good" and "bad".  It's like the infamous argument I had with my mother about contacting pest control to come and check out the potential fruit fly larva in my peach.  I considered my motivations very moral - social responsibility, that high universalist value.  She considered them very immoral - putting the family home at risk by having a stranger visit, inconveniencing my mother for some faraway "fruit industry" of no specific consequence to my family, etc.)

Even when it comes to less momentous decisions, such as what brand of detergent you buy, this intrinsic/extrinsic factor comes in.  Marketing types make their living out of the assumption that *no* choice, however trivial, is random.  People might try a different brand for an extrinsic reason, e.g. because it has nicer packaging, or is a colour that matches the season's fashionable colour for kitchen decor ("bad" reasons, technically, but in so unmomentous a domain most people would see it as hardly immoral), or they might choose it for an intrinsic reason, e.g. because it's environmentally friendly (and because this is a "good" reason, people who virtuously uphold it may feel justified in criticising those who choose for other, trivial reasons.  "You're buying that ecologically destructive brand because it Matches Your Decor?  Don't you care about the planet you live on?").

> David, who has spent many hours wondering why he does things, and, if there is a reason, does that make him not accountable<

Oh yes, I think the most interesting questions are the "why" questions.  I'm always trying to figure out why people do the things they do, it's the sinister social scientist's creed.  And when figuring people, collective, out, self-analysis makes a lot of sense... after all, you don't get that sort of access to anyone else, do you?

Tabouli.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From mystril at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 11 17:38:18 2002
From: mystril at yahoo.com (mystril)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:38:18 -0000
Subject: The Eyre Affair
In-Reply-To: <a6gvei+vh1l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6iq2a+u97f@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "triner2001" <triner918 at a...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "voicelady" <voicelady at m...> wrote:
> > For anyone who's interested in a really good read, I'm currently 
> engrossed in "The Eyre Affair" by Jasper Fforde.  It's only 
recently 
> come out, so it is currently only available in hardback.  The 
> protagonist is a literary detective named Thursday Next, and it's 
> business as usual "that is, until someone begins murdering 
characters 
> from works of literature.  When this madman plucks Jane Eyre from 
the 
> pages of Brontee's novel Thursday faces the challenge of her 
> career."  (This quote is taken directly from the book jacket.
> > 
> 
> 
> I've only just bought this yesterday myself!  I am loving it too!
> 
> Trina

I loved it too! I finished it a day or so after it came out, now, I'm 
telling everyone I know how great it is and why they should read it 
too.
-mystril 




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Mon Mar 11 23:13:49 2002
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catorman)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:13:49 -0000
Subject: The Eyre Affair (spoilerish)
In-Reply-To: <a6iq2a+u97f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6jdnd+g0td@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "mystril" <mystril at y...> wrote:
> I loved it too! I finished it a day or so after it came out, now, 
I'm 
> telling everyone I know how great it is and why they should read it 
> too.
> -mystril


I guess you can add me to the list of converts.  I looked it up the 
other day after reading Jeralyn's post.  It arrived courtesy of 
Amazon this morning, and I've had time to read the first half a dozen 
chapters.  Brilliant.  I love the games he plays with you - for 
example, after seeing "Fillip"  and "Filbert" in rapid succession, I 
immediately thought: "A-ha, no ph in this reality,"  and deliberately 
looked out for more aberrations.  I soon came across Phelps, so that 
one went out the window, but I guess it could be a forename/sirname 
thing...  I love the Baconites as well.

Catherine, who was taught lit crit the Leavisian way originally, and 
has never recovered. 




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Tue Mar 12 00:17:41 2002
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:17:41 -0000
Subject: Culture, speaking, choice
Message-ID: <a6jhf6+fgrb@eGroups.com>

Thank you, Rita, for the Martin Gardner quote.  I will try to look 
out the website in a quiet(!) moment.  On culture, though, I do want 
to take issue with:

> Surely *real* Humanities types would be psychoanalyzing the author 
from the work, explaining how the novel is a model of class warfare 
or patriarchy, unravelling little strings of the text that can be 
proclaimed as influences from past literature or current pop 
culture... 

I believe not.  I think this type of activity belongs either to 
science types lost in the humanities world and grasping at straws, or 
humanities types suffering from science-envy and trying to make their 
field 'scientific'.  Concepts like class warfare and patriarchy can 
be very useful tools for understanding things, but allowed to become 
the defining principle of all analysis they are worse than nothing.

No, I was thinking of good old-fashioned literary criticism.  I had 
originally said:

>As scientists here, we are guests in the natural territory of the 
artists/humanitarians, and sometimes struggle to cope with the habits 
of thought assumed natural.

and Tabouli asked the question I was dreading:

>What are these habits of thought assumed natural?

This I find very difficult to specify.  One of the things that 
sparked my comments was a post by Pippin about Lupin, Snape and 
Sirius.  I'm offline as I write this, but I think she said something 
along the lines of Sirius' needing to have something about his 
character that makes it impossible for him to step into the role of 
Harry's father, because Harry himself has to do this.  She went on to 
say that each had to face their inner something I can't quite 
remember, and then their story would be over.  Also Heidi said 
something offlist about it being 'obvious' that JKR intends us to 
think that Neville is under a memory charm.

In the first case, I was left baffled because, while Pippin's 
comments made perfect sense, I could not discern the pathway by which 
she had arrived there.  While I don't want to detract from Pippin's 
obvious intelligence (at the risk of alienating various moderators, I 
have to say that one of the more arcane pleasures of HPFGU is 
watching Pippin run rings round anyone who dares to cross pens with 
her), I felt there was probably a learned approach to literature at 
work here too.  Looking at fictional characters, one discerns the 
story for that character.  It's just a way of unpicking the text that 
doesn't come naturally to me.  It's seen more from the author's point 
of view, I guess.  What is Lupin for?  How can Sirius be kept at a 
distance form Harry, and what purpose does this serve?  I don't 
pretend to aspire to the insights of an Elkins or a Pippin, but I 
reckon that with a few years of reading books while immersing myself 
in questions of that sort, and discussing them with others undergoing 
the same process, and I would be much more in tune with this sort of 
post.

In the second case, it just wasn't obvious to me until Heidi pointed 
it out.  I think that's because I don't ask myself what the author 
intends when I read something, while I think that that is something 
humanities students are encouraged to ask.  Funnily enough, like 
psychologists, I'm not sure if lawyers place easily in this 
dichotomy.  I suppose it relates to their views on natural versus 
positive law.

And finally:
> Catherine, who was taught lit crit the Leavisian way originally, 
and has never recovered

Do tell!  What is the Leavisian way?

On speaking in public:

Mike's crisis was all over long before I read about it, but he quoted 
Amy:

>Amy Z, who's had all too many nightmares about just that happening, 
reckoned she

>> 'd probably rather break a leg than have to stand up in front of a 
crowd to say something wise sans notes.

I think there's something exhilerating about being up in front of the 
many-headed, expected to say something to hold them.  This happened 
just once to me: at my wedding.  In England the speeches are: Bride's 
father, Groom, Best Man.  I had written notes of what I wanted to say 
(I knew there were things I wanted to say), and gone to my Best Man's 
flat with them.  There I got changed into my penguin suit, *leaving 
the notes in my other suit* and went on to the church, and thence to 
the hotel where the reception was held.

Now a wedding is a good-natured occasion, so I could have got away 
with anything, I'm sure.  But being without my notes if anything made 
it easier.  I was free to look at the guests (about 100) while making 
my points.  I loved it.

Generally, once I get into my stride, I enjoy presentations at 
conferences and the like.  It is easier than a sermon (I have done 
that, too), because of the slides, but there is something about 
establishing a rapport with your audience which is unlike anything 
else in life.  Questions and answers are the best of all.

Choice:

Thank you to Mike, Rita, Tabouli, Amy.  Just a few thoughts.  It was 
gratifying and disappointing to find nobody much better off than me.  
C'mon chaps, can't we just crack this one before lunchtime?

At one time I had to research mathematical theories of war causation 
(chief finding: they're not worth the paper they're printed on), and 
came across a bunch of academics (Michigan, I think) who gather more 
data than you could shake a stick at about all sorts of stuff in the 
world, and try to correlate it with the incidence of conflict, in the 
hope of identifying causes.  I mention this now because it made me 
realise that the concept of causation is pretty slippery too.  These 
guys thought that if they could line A up with B, they were getting 
to causes. The aim was to do a statistical model, and predict war.  
Since causation underlies many forms of determinism, I'm not sure 
that determinists have any better basis for their world view.  (And 
if they replace causation with the decretive will of God, then they 
are lumbered with choice again - his.)

As for randomness, defining what precisely is meant by that is one of 
the few things which causes (oops!) mathematicians to disagree and 
divide into schools (go on, admit it, you didn't think that was 
possible in maths): subjectivists (or Bayesians) and frequentists.

Finally, nobody has yet mentioned that modern physics ascribes a 
central role to the observer.  At the quantum level, I don't believe 
anybody is sure if anything would happen if someone wasn't there to 
watch it.  This is not the same as choice but it's getting close.  
Drieux?

David, wondering if Mrs Norris formerly belonged to Erwin Schr?dinger




From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 12 04:31:02 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 04:31:02 -0000
Subject: Literary analysis (was Culture, speaking, choice)
In-Reply-To: <a6jhf6+fgrb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6k0a6+lcco@eGroups.com>

David writes:

<<
I believe not. I think this type of activity belongs
either to science types lost in the humanities world
and grasping at straws, or humanities types suffering
from science-envy and trying to make their field
'scientific'. Concepts like class warfare and
patriarchy can be very useful tools for understanding
things, but allowed to become the defining principle
of all analysis they are worse than nothing.
>>

Science envy, hee! Doesn't it seem like humanities and
science majors both think they got the raw deal? ^_^

Of ALL analysis, sure, but as I was taught, there are
six basic ways of analyzing a novel: Biographical
(based on the life of the author), Marxist
(economics-based), classical (canon only), feminist,
psychological (based on the thoughts of the characters)
and um.... Well, you'll have to forgive me the last
one, because it was three years ago and I don't have my
notes. -_-

Anyway, the point is to pick the approach that seems to
best fit the work. James Joyce is often best read with
a "Marxist" eye. A psychological approach to Hamlet
would be interesting. And so on.

My opinion is that Rowling is best analyzed classically.
It seems that every other consideration (class warfare,
references to tyrants, the bit of herself that's in
Hermione) is only there in service of the world she's
created, so that's all we should consider. Not to
discourage anyone from positing wildly, of course! A good
humanities major would *never* do that.

--Anna




From miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au  Tue Mar 12 11:18:10 2002
From: miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au (storm)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:18:10 +1000
Subject: Emergency - please send vibes! plus wildlife rehab
References: <1015844340.645.54966.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <002f01c1c9bb$49f5d700$8dc98ec6@storm>

> Mike panicked:
>
> > > I just spilled three deciliters of tea over my laptop - about one
> > > hour before I'm due to preach a sermon at my church. I had just
> > > finished writing when it happened - and the notebook died before I
> > > could make backups.

> Amy Z commented
> Storm, who has such odd priorities that she'd probably also rather be
> expelled than killed <g>, wrote:
>
> > Crickey Mike! I thought someone had an accident or got sick or
> >something!
>
What did I say? <wail> I don't understand! Give me being killed any day! What am
I being expelled from?

Amy Z replied
> I'd probably rather break a leg than have to stand up in front of a
> crowd to say something wise sans notes.

storm, who would happily stand up in front of a crowd and talk without notes -
but *never* says anything wise - but would rather die (or break a leg if it got
me out of it) than have a cocktail conversation with a stranger - ick!

by the way - Cathrine in Calafornia what do you do in the way of wildlife rehab?
I've just started doing this with WIRES (www.wires.au.com). My avairy, which has
taken FOREVER, should be ready tomorrow and I already have three incompatable
occupants lined up (Sulphar Crested Cockatoo tomorrow and then a Raven -
wonderful! - and Magpie on Friday)





From miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au  Tue Mar 12 11:42:50 2002
From: miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au (storm)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:42:50 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Dursley, Depression and Elkins
References: <1015445384.4789.44790.m8@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <003001c1c9bb$4c3825e0$8dc98ec6@storm>



the Dursleys' ...
>
Pippin said:
> Ah...the challenge. A Dursley theory so wild it belongs on
> OT-Chatter.

I think all Dursley theories belong on OT because there is so little to know
(except they are horrid to Our Harry.)

thanks you to everyone who submitted their theories .. most helpful. I quite
like Pippin's theory the Dursleys are space aliens but I think it is more likely
that he is just a useful scapegoat. I agree they are getting an allowance
for keeping him.

Anna I think you give the Dursleys, particularly Petunia far too much credit!

However I do like .....
>
> In Scenario B, Dumbledore's letter is very explicit
> about the manner in which Lily and James died, and
> Petunia realises that getting rid of Harry would be no
> different than killing him by her own hand. Although
> she's furious about getting saddled with Harry, she can't
> bring herself to send him away.
>
> In my opinion, the second theory is more plausible, but
> I'd rather see it be the first. :)

I want to see the letter! I want to see the letter!!!

> > David said
> Nothing to say about Dursleys, but you are appreciated here, storm.

thanks David ... I need to appreciate myself too (sob!)
>
> > Elkins said:
>
> My hair was indeed brown, once upon a time.  Then, for quite a long
> time, it was a very dark aubergine which looked black in dim
> lighting, but which was a lovely rich purple whenever I stepped out
> into the sun.
>
> All that, however, was before I turned twenty-one, which was when the
> premature greying gene kicked into action.
>
> Boy, was *that* ever a surprise!  I stood staring at myself in the
> mirror in utter bewilderment, going: "What?  But, but, but, but...but
> *no one* in my family has *ever* gone grey this young!  Has my life
> really been that stressful?  Or was it all that injudicious hair
> dying that caused this to happen?"
>
> Then I slapped myself on the forehead, suddenly remembering that I
> was adopted.

laugh! did I what? Nearly pissed myself. Sorry about your grey hair Elkins but I
was very amused.

thanks to Pippin, Dave, Liz, Tabouli and everyone else who has sent me their
wishes. I saw the shrink on Thursday who told me my depression was 'treatment
resistant'. Great help. onward we go. I have two weeks leave now and a plan to
Do Something everyday.

storm







From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 12 11:05:18 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:05:18 -0000
Subject: getting our priorities straight (was Emergency)
In-Reply-To: <002f01c1c9bb$49f5d700$8dc98ec6@storm>
Message-ID: <a6knde+fcjb@eGroups.com>

Storm wrote:

> > > Crickey Mike! I thought someone had an accident or got sick or
> > >something!

and:

> What did I say? <wail> I don't understand! Give me being killed any 
day! What am
> I being expelled from?

I was responding to the "Crikey Mike!"  You seemed to think an 
accident or illness would be a *worse* emergency than losing his 
sermon.   All of us Hermione types know that isn't the case (hence the 
reference to "we all could've been killed . . . or worse, expelled").

I think I've dissected this frog enough.  One has to tell a much 
funnier joke than mine in order for it to survive this kind of 
analysis.

Amy
who wants to hear an update on the birds when they arrive




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 12 12:02:38 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:02:38 -0000
Subject: Neville/what's obvious (Culture, speaking, choice)
In-Reply-To: <a6jhf6+fgrb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6kqou+mtk@eGroups.com>

David wrote:

> Also Heidi said 
> something offlist about it being 'obvious' that JKR intends us to 
> think that Neville is under a memory charm.

<snip>

> it just wasn't obvious to me until Heidi pointed 
> it out.  I think that's because I don't ask myself what the author 
> intends when I read something, while I think that that is something 
> humanities students are encouraged to ask.  

Nope, that can't be it.  I'm as humanities-ish as one can get: 
religion major (thesis was on literature), art major; two more degrees 
in religion, with a bunch of literature courses and an MA exam on 
Romantic poetry mixed in; grew up in a theater-going, museum-hopping, 
book-dominated family; have a dad who literally quoted Shakespeare at 
the dinner table, quizzed us "What's that from?" and as often as not 
jumped up in the middle of the meal to grab the Yale Shakespeare and 
declaim a bit from Richard II.

Despite this literary training and the concomitant outlook, I do not 
think it's "obvious" that Neville is under a memory charm even after 
someone points out all the evidence.  There is such a thing as 
"obvious" in literature (it is obvious that McGonagall loves Quidditch 
even though there is no sentence saying "McGonagall loved Quidditch"), 
but the bar is quite high.  "Neville is under a memory charm" doesn't 
come close to meeting the standard, IMO.

I don't know where lawyers fit into the humanities/science continuum, 
but they do have a talent for spinning their conclusions so that they 
sound like the only obvious ones.  It's an important ability if you're 
in a line of work in which a plausible argument isn't enough; one is 
supposed to "win" the argument (an idea, IMO, that is foreign to 
right-thinking English literature scholars).

Amy
noting that Heidi hasn't piped up on this list in some time and hoping 
she'll swoop down to pick up the gauntlet




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Tue Mar 12 13:28:48 2002
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:28:48 -0000
Subject: Neville/what's obvious 
In-Reply-To: <a6kqou+mtk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6kvqg+cbhc@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "lupinesque" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
>
> Despite this literary training and the concomitant outlook, I do 
not 
> think it's "obvious" that Neville is under a memory charm even 
after 
> someone points out all the evidence.  There is such a thing as 
> "obvious" in literature (it is obvious that McGonagall loves 
Quidditch 
> even though there is no sentence saying "McGonagall loved 
Quidditch"), 
> but the bar is quite high.  "Neville is under a memory charm" 
doesn't 
> come close to meeting the standard, IMO.
> 
Eerm.. I hate saying this sort of thing, but my point was not whether 
it is obvious that Neville is under a charm, but whether it is 
obviously a possibility JKR wants us to consider.

Trying to get outside the HP-verse into JKR's mind is IMO a cultural 
habit.

David




From heidit at netbox.com  Tue Mar 12 15:10:20 2002
From: heidit at netbox.com (heiditandy)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:10:20 -0000
Subject: Point of order! (was Re: Neville/what's obvious (Culture, speaking, choice))
In-Reply-To: <a6kqou+mtk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6l5os+rggk@eGroups.com>

> David wrote:
> 
> > Also Heidi said 
> > something offlist about it being 'obvious' that JKR intends us 
to 
> > think that Neville is under a memory charm.
> 
Amy wrote
> Despite this literary training and the concomitant outlook, I do 
not 
> think it's "obvious" that Neville is under a memory charm even 
after 
> someone points out all the evidence.  There is such a thing as 
> "obvious" in literature (it is obvious that McGonagall loves 
Quidditch 
> even though there is no sentence saying "McGonagall loved 
Quidditch"), 
> but the bar is quite high.  "Neville is under a memory charm" 
doesn't 
> come close to meeting the standard, IMO.

: picks up gauntlet and chucks it onto the ice so those who think 
this is too ontopic can go off and do some curling...

What I was *trying to say* was that it's obvious that JKR wanted it 
to be a reasonable conclusion for people to draw, the same way that 
she wanted "Snape is working for Voldemort" to be an obvious 
conclusion of people to draw during parts of Book 1, or "Sirius 
killed Harry's parents" in Book 3. It doesn't mean that 
those "facts" are true, but it does mean that she's written the 
story in such a way as to cause the reader to think "Ah-hah! That's 
what she's getting at with this juxtaposition!"

We may be right, we may be wrong. We have no idea right now. It's 
just an obvious conclusion to draw. There are lots of other things 
in the books which some people think are "obvious conclusions" 
including certain SHIPs, the redemption of certain characters, and 
who's going to be on Harry's side (and alive) at the end of Book 7 
(or whether Harry will be alive at all).  I wonder if JKR also 
wanted to make it obvious that Lily was in Gryffindor, with her use 
of the word "naturally" when she made it official in a chat last 
year - because that certainly wasn't obvious to me when she said it. 
In fact, when she said it, I jumped from thinking Lily and James 
were the same year to thinking that Lily was perhaps a year older or 
younger, as it's unusual for the head boy and head girl to be of the 
same house.

Personally, I don't think Neville is under a memory charm - I think 
he's afraid of magic on a subconscious level, and afraid of Snape on 
a very conscious level. 

And this is getting frighteningly on topic, so I will end it here...


heidi




From keegan at mcn.org  Tue Mar 12 15:52:19 2002
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:52:19 -0800
Subject: wildlife rehab
In-Reply-To: <002f01c1c9bb$49f5d700$8dc98ec6@storm>
References: <1015844340.645.54966.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020312072922.00b53db0@mail.mcn.org>

At 09:18 PM 3/12/02 +1000, Storm wrote:
>by the way - Cathrine in Calafornia what do you do in the way of wildlife 
>rehab?
>I've just started doing this with WIRES (www.wires.au.com). My avairy, 
>which has
>taken FOREVER, should be ready tomorrow and I already have three incompatable
>occupants lined up (Sulphar Crested Cockatoo tomorrow and then a Raven -
>wonderful! - and Magpie on Friday)
I worked with the Lindsay Wildlife Hospital for several years as a 
volunteer.  Loved it.  I especially enjoyed the raptors.  Birds are just 
great!  Except for when they're chicks and have to be fed every twenty 
minutes or so, they require little care (assuming they're not horribly 
ill).  Volunteers did everything from the endless laundry (don't try to 
think about what kinds of things went into the washing machine, you don't 
want to know) to cleaning cages, to assisting with the procedures (the 
best!).  The Lindsay offered a variety of training to the volunteers so you 
could learn to identify birds or do necropsies to determine the cause of 
death.  I took everything I could.

The hospital saw a wide variety of urban wildlife from one cougar, a few 
bobcats, a baby beaver (too cute to be believed), an adult beaver (huge!), 
a couple of the tiniest coyotes I've ever seen (they tend to be small in 
the Contra Costa area), and a staggering amount of raccoons, opossums, 
squirrels, gophers, snakes, lizards, western pond turtles, and birds - tons 
of birds.

I wasn't in a position to do home care at the time.  I didn't think the 
data center would enjoy  little squawking visitors and, between 
oncall,  maintenance day duties and trying to get a house built, I wasn't 
around enough to provide the kind of home care necessary for birds or 
mammals.  I've been trying to get into the rehabber network in Mendocino 
and have failed miserably.  There is no structure like the hospital here 
and only one licensed rehabber who doesn't want to take on much more work 
and you can't work here without a license.   You have to be a 501C right 
now to get one.

Good luck with your aviary.  Are you going to partition it for the odd crew 
you'll be taking care of?  Might make it a bit small but it's better than 
finding that your three birds has dwindled to one.  Ravens are 
great.  Smart and generally easy to feed.  The Lindsay had one that would 
do anything for a meal worm.  (Imprinted, of course)

I'll have to check out your site and see if they list what the requirements 
are for aviaries, etc...  IWRC rules are the standard here so everything 
seems to be based off a 4'x8' piece of plywood.

Good luck with your new birds!  May they fly healthy and free soon!  (I am 
so jealous.)

Catherine in California - birdless and missing it terribly.





From meckelburg at foni.net  Tue Mar 12 17:04:03 2002
From: meckelburg at foni.net (mecki987)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:04:03 -0000
Subject: scream, Re: Vibes worked! / Choice
In-Reply-To: <003101c1c86b$22ce3600$0200a8c0@shasta>
Message-ID: <a6lce3+4ln2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Aberforth's Goat" <Aberforths_Goat at Y...> 
wrote:
> 
> BTW, it's nice to have someplace to scream when one is going
> nuts.

You're so right, so here I go:

AAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

sigh, that's much better. A deep breath. Ooph!
That was some horrible weekend.

I had been out with the kids all day, buying all kinds of things for 
my husbands birthday. We weren't going to have guests and I was really 
looking forward to a really nice family-weekend, just the four of us.
we left the house very early in the morning, everything was still a 
mess.

and now it comes: We returned back home and I nearly died of shock. I 
opened the door and there was someone sitting in my living-room!!
After I finished screaming, I reckognized my father-in-law and my 
sister-in-law. They never told us, that they where going to come- just 
let themselves in with the keys our neighbours have for emergencies.

I had nothing in the house, the beds were unmade, peace and quiet 
shattered to bits.

The whole weekend was ruined. I must add, that my father-in-law hates 
me. Something about a horrible housewife (okay,partly true) an awful 
mother and my husband should never have married me in the first place.
My selfconfidence is never very strong, but about 15 minutes with them 
make me feel like a criminal. They stayed for 4 days. Only left one 
hour ago. ( I was able to chat for about 15 minutes, but HE was 
looking over my shoulder ( so that's where you are wasting your 
time!)- Nobody could help me, and my husband is no great help either.


AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!



Thanks for listening, now I feel much better!
Mecki 





From saitaina at wizzards.net  Tue Mar 12 19:10:59 2002
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:10:59 -0800
Subject: Evil Clothes-And their makers
References: <a6lce3+4ln2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <009301c1c9f9$a5ee92c0$314e28d1@oemcomputer>

Okay, I've bitched about this before but I just have to do it again.  For those of you who have never had a problem finding clothes your size and NEVER been overweight, this is NOT your post.

Alright, I as you know, am a large woman.  Have been since I was little.  I used to never have problems finding clothes my size till I reached the dreaded 20+ sizes (20, 22, 24, 26, ect or in other terms, 2X, 3X, 4X, 5X,)  I have discovered that clothing manufactures do not look to these sizes when designing clothes and we are stuck with ugly prints, flower patterns or....animals.  I cannot tell you how many Christmas's I received a shirt bearing fluffy bunnies because there was nothing else in my size.

Recently, I have turned to the internet as a way to buy my clothing.  There in the depths of cyberspace is a richness of large sized clothing....or so I thought.  Due to my up coming need for 'professional clothing I decided to have a shopping spree.  So I turned to the haven that is large sized women's clothing, Layne Bryant.  I spent, 344.00$ on new clothes thinking that they would not lie when they said a 48 is the same as a 28 (I actually wear a 26 but bigger is better in some cases) so imagine my surprise when I opened the package today and...nothing fit.  

I'm tired of it.  I'm tired of dressing like my mother just to have decent fitting clothing.  I'm tired of watching all the other 'little' girls my age wearing cute outfits while I'm stuck in pants that should never see the light of day.  I'm tired of being a majority while having my clothes in the minority.  I'm tired of being looked down upon, shunned, shoved aside and having to pay more money then is decent just because I am a larger size.  The average American Woman may be a size 14 but there's a hell of a lot more of us at a size 24.

Okay, my rant is over, I must now go try to salvage the clothes I bought and see if I can do anything with them.  Here's hoping.

Saitaina
*****
Lucius let his eyes drop to the dragon pendent around his neck, Lucius' Christmas gift to him. A small silver dragon curled around a golden lion. His eyes went back up to Draco's and he sighed. "Keep him safe too. The wizarding world needs it's heroes."-"The End of the Beginning", Saitaina, http://www.schnoogle.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From boggles at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 12 19:44:09 2002
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:44:09 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Evil Clothes-And their makers
In-Reply-To: <009301c1c9f9$a5ee92c0$314e28d1@oemcomputer>
References: <a6lce3+4ln2@eGroups.com>
 <009301c1c9f9$a5ee92c0$314e28d1@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <f05010401b8b409963267@[199.174.12.111]>

At 11:10 AM -0800 3/12/02, Saitaina wrote:
>
>Okay, my rant is over, I must now go try to salvage the clothes I 
>bought and see if I can do anything with them.  Here's hoping.

I'm a 22W and I have _never_ been thrilled with Lane Bryant, to be 
honest.  You might try Coldwater Creek (they have a website, I'm sure 
you can Google for it); I've had much better luck with them, although 
their color selections are sometimes unfortunate.  Land's End's plus 
sizes are generally decent, too, and generally don't have goofy 
flowers or animals.

The one that's always stymied me is getting decent RenFaire garb.  A 
friend of mine in California took my measurements when she was in 
town over Christmas, and is hand-making me a set as a combination 
Yule and birthday gift, which is incredibly generous of her.

-- 
  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles at earthlink.net
=== Personal Growth Geek Code v0.4 ===
GG++ !T A-- M++s--- g+ B- C- P++++ a- b- h+ her++ E+ N n++ i f+
c++ S%++++&&># D R++ xc++ xm+ xi+ yd++ ys++(-) rt+ ro+ rp++++ rjk<+
ow+++ ofn+ oft++ op++ esk-- ey+ ek+++ pl++ pf++ pe++ U!



From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Tue Mar 12 20:20:29 2002
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:20:29 -0000
Subject: Evil Clothes-And their makers
In-Reply-To: <f05010401b8b409963267@[199.174.12.111]>
Message-ID: <a6lnud+o9si@eGroups.com>

Seriously, anybody who wants clothes that they like and that fit should learn to 
sew.  Not only will you get the style and fit you want, but you can coose to make 
up any of the thousands of fabrics in the fabric store!  And you'll save money.  

It's true that learning how, and getting the right fit in the first place, are tricky, 
but after that it's a very empowering feeling to know that you can have exactly 
the look you want, any time, at a reasonable price.  Start with simple things that 
don't have buttons, collars, lapels, or cuffs.

Please don't feel that I'm talking down to you -- my daughter and I believe in this 
very strongly and I'm a size 16 and she's a very petite 4, but with a figure that's 
apparently curvier than all the other 4's, so she has as many fitting problems as 
anyone could.  Good luck with whatver alternative you pursue!




From moongirlk at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 12 22:56:55 2002
From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:56:55 -0000
Subject: Culture, speaking, choice
In-Reply-To: <a6jhf6+fgrb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6m13n+7jhr@eGroups.com>

On science vs humanities in dealing with literature, Dave responded 
to Rita's:
 
> > Surely *real* Humanities types would be psychoanalyzing the 
author 
> from the work, explaining how the novel is a model of class warfare 
> or patriarchy, unravelling little strings of the text that can be 
> proclaimed as influences from past literature or current pop 
> culture... 

With: 

> I believe not.  I think this type of activity belongs either to 
> science types lost in the humanities world and grasping at straws, 
or 
> humanities types suffering from science-envy and trying to make 
their 
> field 'scientific'.  Concepts like class warfare and patriarchy can 
> be very useful tools for understanding things, but allowed to 
become 
> the defining principle of all analysis they are worse than nothing.
> 
> No, I was thinking of good old-fashioned literary criticism.  

The turn this discussion has taken has been enlightening for me.  I 
have a niggling suspicion that my masters studies in French lit were 
more than just misguided.  I started out studying language, and 
literature was just part of the package.  I've always loved reading, 
so it seemed natural enough to me, but I didn't much enjoy literary 
theory and criticism.  I like reading because it takes me somewhere 
new (sort of the sitting at the feet of the author thing that Dave 
described).  Too much literary theory was like messing with the man 
behind the curtain - ruined the mystery of it all.  I now think that 
had I focused on something more scientific in the field of language 
(like linguistics), instead of literature, I may have stuck it out in 
grad school, and not have had some of my favorite books 'ruined' for 
me.

So what I'd like to know is, how exactly do you know on which side of 
this particular fence you belong?  I mean, I knew growing up that 
humanities were harder for me, but I liked a challenge, and 
considered the other classes boring except during those "eureka" 
moments when a new concept clicked.  So am I the only one so out-of-
touch with herself that she didn't figure this out, or is this a 
common confusion?  The tests given by guidance counsellors sure 
didn't help.  The one I took in highschool suggested I should be a 
camp counsellor or (drumroll please) Santa Claus.  Was a little 
discouraging for a 17 year old girl with body image issues, let me 
tell you.  

David the Brave also said:

> Generally, once I get into my stride, I enjoy presentations at 
> conferences and the like.  It is easier than a sermon (I have done 
> that, too), because of the slides, but there is something about 
> establishing a rapport with your audience which is unlike anything 
> else in life.  Questions and answers are the best of all.

Can I rub your head or something?  Public speaking makes me queasy.

> David, wondering if Mrs Norris formerly belonged to Erwin 
Schr?dinger

Hee!  I've had a soft spot for him since college when an art-major 
friend did a thing he called "Fictioanthropologica" (or something 
like that) for his senior exhibition.  It was odd items and their 
fictional inventors.  One of the items was a fish-bomb invented by a 
well-intentioned guy trying to cure world hunger.  Another was a 
walking mechanical cat he built out of junk he found.  The inventor 
was, of course, Schrodinger - I guess guilt drove him to build the 
indestructible cat.

Does anyone else think the cat thing was a little over-elaborate?  
Weird science, if you ask me.

kimberly





From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 13 01:23:31 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:23:31 -0000
Subject: Neville/what's obvious
In-Reply-To: <a6kvqg+cbhc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6m9mj+buad@eGroups.com>

David wrote:
 
> Eerm.. I hate saying this sort of thing, but my point was not 
whether 
> it is obvious that Neville is under a charm, but whether it is 
> obviously a possibility JKR wants us to consider.

I follow you.  No, I don't think either one is obvious.
 
> Trying to get outside the HP-verse into JKR's mind is IMO a cultural 
> habit.

I guess I don't think of it too much as trying to get into her mind.  
It is more about trying to discern patterns in her writing--or am I 
splitting hairs?

E.g., here's a case of trying to discern patterns:

"We know that JKR plants background information that becomes central 
to a plot as much as two books later:  viz. Polyjuice Potion, an 
entertaining dead end in CoS, but crucial in GoF.  What incidental 
information in books 3 and 4 do you think will turn out to be plot 
essentials in future books?"

I suppose you could call this trying to get into the author's mind, 
but that makes it sound so, I don't know, nosy.  I prefer to think of 
it as astute literary analysis.

<g>
Amy






From porphyria at mindspring.com  Wed Mar 13 01:28:58 2002
From: porphyria at mindspring.com (porphyria at mindspring.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:28:58 -0500
Subject: Neville/What's obvious
Message-ID: <RELAY1SdyuSGgVQmN5800007373@relay1.softcomca.com>

David asked, on the main list:

<The question I really want to know the answer to is, what is it about us that makes things that are obvious to one person obscure to another?>
 
<...I theorised that it has, at least in part, to do with the 'two cultures' divide between scientists and humanists.>

David, I'm answering you on Chatter because I think my reply has more to do with my own experience, and my ideas about 'the reader' rather than the books themselves.

I think you could be right that it's a cultural thing. After all, what scientists and mathematicians consider proof of something is much more rigorous and fact-based than anyone would ever be able to be with art and fiction. Science and Math are supposed to have one right answer, but if literature only had one right 'meaning' then it wouldn't be literature; we'd have no need for poetry at all. Think of how differently the term "to analyze" is used from one discipline to the other: in science it means to determine something's component parts, in literature it often means something like guessing, to read between the lines and see what's not explicitly there. It's very nearly the opposite.

I've both studied and taught literature in school, and I have a very 'Humanities' background, so when I read a book I do look for certain types of clues that I've noticed in other books and read in other people's interpretations. Going by my 'literary' experience, I feel that there are a lot of indications that JKR wants us to wonder if Neville is under a memory charm, or at least think about memory charms, or think about Neville. But I think that a reader has to employ a certain style of reading in order to feel this way. It helps to think of the HP series as a whodunnint, both on the level of each book and the series as a whole. We do know that JKR drops clues, hints and forshadowings of future plot developments from book to book. Remember Sirius Black was mentioned right at the beginning of PS/SS! Any Polyjuice Potion is mentioned in CoS, but becomes the key to the mystery in GoF. So in a way, these books 'teach' you to read them that way, they teach you to look for little clues, motifs, or recurring issues and string them together. I'd say the fact that I feel that way has a lot to do with what I was taught in school, though I suspect it would be seemingly 'natural' for someone who reads lots of mystery novels and gets used to that sort of thing.

Does this begin to answer your question? It's a very interesting topic.

~~Porphyria


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 13 01:33:03 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:33:03 -0000
Subject: Point of order! (was Re: Neville/what's obvious (Culture, speaking, choice))
In-Reply-To: <a6l5os+rggk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6ma8f+7phd@eGroups.com>

Heidi strode into the courtroom and announced:

> What I was *trying to say* was that it's obvious that JKR wanted it 
> to be a reasonable conclusion for people to draw, the same way that 
> she wanted "Snape is working for Voldemort" to be an obvious 
> conclusion of people to draw during parts of Book 1, or "Sirius 
> killed Harry's parents" in Book 3. It doesn't mean that 
> those "facts" are true, but it does mean that she's written the 
> story in such a way as to cause the reader to think "Ah-hah! That's 
> what she's getting at with this juxtaposition!"
> 
> We may be right, we may be wrong. We have no idea right now. It's 
> just an obvious conclusion to draw. 

I understand.  But to me it is not an obvious conclusion, whereas the 
other examples you give are.  A forgetful character is such a common 
phenomenon that it didn't remotely occur to me that JKR was trying to 
do anything with it other than provide humor, a foil for Snape's 
nastiness, etc.  I won't be surprised if Neville turns out to be 
Memory Charmed, nor if the juxtaposition of Neville's forgetfulness 
and the existence of Memory Charms becomes sharper (in which case it 
will join the ranks of "Snape's working for Voldemort" and "Sirius is 
a killer" as a reasonable conclusion to draw), but at the moment I 
don't think either the theory or the juxtaposition is obvious.

Actually, I didn't draw any conclusions about Sirius killing Lily and 
James, either, until Fudge actually said it in so many words.  I was 
just reading along thinking he was Voldemort's murderous right-hand 
man, no connection to the Potters whatsoever.  Are you saying you made 
the connection before chapter 10 revealed it?  I'm impressed.
 
> In fact, when she said it, I jumped from thinking Lily and James 
> were the same year to thinking that Lily was perhaps a year older or 
> younger, as it's unusual for the head boy and head girl to be of the 
> same house.

Now that sounds like something else that is obvious to you but not to 
me.  We know nothing about any head boy or girl besides Percy, so how 
can any arrangement be "unusual"?

I guess we should take this one to the real list, huh?

Amy




From bonnie at niche-associates.com  Wed Mar 13 05:02:06 2002
From: bonnie at niche-associates.com (dicentra_spectabilis_alba)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 05:02:06 -0000
Subject: Literary analysis (was Culture, speaking, choice)
In-Reply-To: <a6k0a6+lcco@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6mmge+ne95@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "saintbacchus" <saintbacchus at y...> wrote:

> <<
> I believe not. I think this type of activity belongs
> either to science types lost in the humanities world
> and grasping at straws, or humanities types suffering
> from science-envy and trying to make their field
> 'scientific'. Concepts like class warfare and
> patriarchy can be very useful tools for understanding
> things, but allowed to become the defining principle
> of all analysis they are worse than nothing.
> >>
> 
> Science envy, hee! Doesn't it seem like humanities and
> science majors both think they got the raw deal? ^_^
> 
> Of ALL analysis, sure, but as I was taught, there are
> six basic ways of analyzing a novel: Biographical
> (based on the life of the author), Marxist
> (economics-based), classical (canon only), feminist,
> psychological (based on the thoughts of the characters)
> and um.... Well, you'll have to forgive me the last
> one, because it was three years ago and I don't have my
> notes. -_-
> 
Oh, there are more than six, and they're coming up with more.  [I 
spent five years in a lit crit program at Cornell (doctoral program), 
so I've had my fill.] There is also semiotic, deconstructionist, 
freudian, queer, reader-response, new historicism, structural... and 
whatever else they've come up with in the five years since I left. 

> Anyway, the point is to pick the approach that seems to
> best fit the work. James Joyce is often best read with
> a "Marxist" eye. A psychological approach to Hamlet
> would be interesting. And so on.

<rant>
If you're in the thick of lit crit, up in the highest reaches of the 
ivory tower, you most certainly do NOT pick the approach that seems 
to best fit the work. You choose one critical theory, much the same 
way you choose a major, and that theory becomes your personal 
religion for the rest of your natural life, and I'm not kidding when 
I say religion. 

If you choose feminism (and you must if you're female), everything 
you read becomes feminist commentary. You are required to twist the 
text any way you can to prove that it supports your religion, much 
the same way different denominations all claim that the Bible 
supports their take on it and none other.

As you might imagine, this technique leads to more absurdities than 
you can shake a stick at. The one that stuck in my craw was how 
Freudians would find Freudian imagery in pre-Freudian works (like Don 
Quixote). Or how Marxist saw all texts as definitive commentary on 
who's kicking whom. (The upshot being that all human relationships 
consist of oppressor and oppressed and nothing else.)

The corrollary to this is that your literary religion ultimately 
becomes your real-life religion too: what applies to texts also 
applies to life (because life is a text and "all knowledge is 
mediated through language" and guess who become the high priests of 
reality in this paradigm?).

I haven't been in contact with the lit crit world since HP became 
big, but I'm fairly sure it is not held in high regard for the 
following reasons:

It is popular
It is plot-oriented
Regular people like it
It is in the fantasy genre
The prose is a vessel for the subject matter, not a subject unto 
itself
It has made the author filthy rich
It is popular
Children like it
It was made into the second-highest grossing film in history
It is popular
It is not a commentary on the nature of fiction
It is not convoluted and incomprehensible
It is not boring
Did I mention that it's popular?

Lit crit types don't read anything that the average person can 
comprehend, let alone enjoy. I think I read maybe a half dozen books 
in my 7-year grad student career that I truly enjoyed. The rest were 
on the reading list because they were "significant" for one reason or 
another.
</rant>

> David writes:
> In the second case, it just wasn't obvious to me until Heidi 
pointed it out. I think that's because I don't ask myself what the 
author intends when I read something, while I think that that is 
something humanities students are encouraged to ask. 

<rant>
Up in the ivory tower, the last thing you ask is what the author's 
intent was. This is somewhat valid in that it's really not possible 
to determine what the autor's intent was (especially dead authors), 
but mostly lit crit types don't want the author's intent to interfere 
with their religious interpretations of the text. If they can't 
wrench the meaning seventeen ways 'till Sunday, they won't be happy.

So, David, you're right when you say that "when these theories become 
the defining principle of all analysis they are worse than nothing." 
But you're not allowed to say that in class or in a paper. Not in the 
lit crit programs, anyway.

</rant>

--Dicentra, who didn't get to say much at Cornell




From Zorb17 at aol.com  Wed Mar 13 09:03:57 2002
From: Zorb17 at aol.com (Zorb17 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 04:03:57 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Culture, speaking, choice
Message-ID: <3a.236d52bb.29c06ffd@aol.com>

kimberly asked:
>>So what I'd like to know is, how exactly do you know on which side of 
this particular fence you belong?  I mean, I knew growing up that 
humanities were harder for me, but I liked a challenge, and 
considered the other classes boring except during those "eureka" 
moments when a new concept clicked.  So am I the only one so out-of-
touch with herself that she didn't figure this out, or is this a 
common confusion?<<

You are not at all alone here.  I'm a permanent inhabitant of the fence-top.  
I pay its taxes, have its zip code, and I wear out cushions quickly.  

When I was younger, I always thought I was a humanities person.  This 
probably came from my parents both being math people and recommending that I 
should be a scientist when I grew up.  I, naturally, rejected the notion that 
they might have a point and insisted for years that I would be a writer, then 
later decided I had no idea what I would do, but that it would definitely be 
"non-science."

I went along with this little plan going into college, and I took a 
completely non-science group of classes in my first quarter.  After about a 
month, I was banging my head against the wall.  It wasn't that I *disliked* 
those classes - quite the contrary - but I felt like I was neglecting a big 
part of myself.  I realized I *need* to have both sciences and humanities in 
my life.  This made choosing a major even harder, but I eventually settled on 
something that effectively straddles the fence, and I'm happily working 
towards it as we speak.

>>The tests given by guidance counsellors sure didn't help.<<

Oh, those were the most useless things I ever took!  My results always 
pointed equally to both sides of the fence and had about fifty fields each 
within them.  Very frustrating for a direction-less teenager.


Zorb, done rambling now :-)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From macloudt at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 13 10:05:44 2002
From: macloudt at hotmail.com (Mary Jennings)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:05:44 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] scream about in-laws
Message-ID: <F151U9T3TGJ2TUSzbAU0001abe5@hotmail.com>

Mecki wrote:

>and now it comes: We returned back home and I nearly died of shock. I
>opened the door and there was someone sitting in my living-room!!
>After I finished screaming, I reckognized my father-in-law and my
>sister-in-law. They never told us, that they where going to come- just
>let themselves in with the keys our neighbours have for emergencies.
>
>I had nothing in the house, the beds were unmade, peace and quiet
>shattered to bits.
>
>The whole weekend was ruined. I must add, that my father-in-law hates
>me. Something about a horrible housewife (okay,partly true) an awful
>mother and my husband should never have married me in the first place.
>My selfconfidence is never very strong, but about 15 minutes with them
>make me feel like a criminal. They stayed for 4 days. Only left one
>hour ago. ( I was able to chat for about 15 minutes, but HE was
>looking over my shoulder ( so that's where you are wasting your
>time!)- Nobody could help me, and my husband is no great help either.
>
>
>AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!


:::::drumroll:::::

Mecki, welcome to the In-Laws from Hell Club!  The one advantage I have is 
that DH's parents never come over and don't acknowledge my existence, so I 
no longer have to deal with them.  I know it's difficult, but try to remind 
yourself that it's your FIL who's the waste of space, not you.  Give your 
husband a firm kick in the behind and tell him that he's supposed to be on 
*your* side.  And gently ask your neighbour to not give your emergency key 
out to *anyone* except you, DH, or the kids.

While we're thinking up delightful scenarios involving various in-laws (the 
bus with bad brakes; gee, where did that stray bullet come from?) let's ask 
Tabouli for a nifty acronym and see if we can have some badges made up ;)

Strength!

Mary Ann
(whose favourite scenario is "Aliens kidnap MIL"...nah, they'd give her 
back)

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com




From miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au  Wed Mar 13 11:57:03 2002
From: miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au (storm)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:57:03 +1000
Subject: re getting our priorities straight (was Emergency)
References: <1015935523.402.41982.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c1ca86$33e727e0$9dcd8ec6@storm>

Amy said:
>
> I was responding to the "Crikey Mike!"  You seemed to think an
> accident or illness would be a *worse* emergency than losing his
> sermon.   All of us Hermione types know that isn't the case (hence the
> reference to "we all could've been killed . . . or worse, expelled").

Of course! <slaps side of head>

well it would be! Unless you are on tele dead is forever and just you remember
that you Hermonie-types!

On the birds, well sadly the sulfar crested cockie had to be euthanised. <sigh>
She/he was only a young bird, about 6 months, but had  Pittcane beak and feather
disease. It's a HIV/AIDS like disease and currently there is no cure. Some birds
are carriers and others have active illness. 'my' bird had beak deformaties,
liver failure and skin ulcers (and that was just on the vet's first look).
He/she would have got it either at conception or soon after hatching. I don't
think 'they' are clear about mode of transmission but one theory is that they
get it through saliva while being fed by mum and dad.

Poor pumpkin. I hate having them put down. The vet said he/she wasn't in much
pain but with PBFD they have never be re-released so ... what kind of life is
captivity for a wild animal?

storm, who really wants to read The Eyre Affair and will be visiting the library
Very Soon.
>




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 13 11:43:11 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:43:11 -0000
Subject: scream about in-laws
In-Reply-To: <F151U9T3TGJ2TUSzbAU0001abe5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <a6ne0f+cs3n@eGroups.com>

Mary Ann advised:

> Give your 
> husband a firm kick in the behind and tell him that he's supposed to 
be on 
> *your* side.  And gently ask your neighbour to not give your 
emergency key 
> out to *anyone* except you, DH, or the kids.

You could photocopy and enlarge a definition of "emergency" and attach 
it to the key.  Emergency means people are in danger of death or 
serious injury.  In-laws who want to reach you the moment you get home 
can LEAVE A NOTE ON THE FRONT DOOR.  Oh, and change the locks; your 
FIL probably copied it before he gave it back.

And how about a rule that uninvited guests are asked in for a cup of 
tea at most, never a meal or an overnight stay or (yikes) a four-day 
visit?

Amy
offering a prayer of thanks for her in-laws, who suddenly look 
perfect, and lighting a candle to St. Jude for Mecki (shall we just 
set up a cybershrine right here?  We seem to need St. Jude quite a 
lot.  I'm going to light him a daily candle for the release of OoP)




From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Wed Mar 13 13:24:06 2002
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:24:06 -0000
Subject: scream about in-laws
In-Reply-To: <a6ne0f+cs3n@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6njtm+10fs5@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "lupinesque" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:

> And how about a rule that uninvited guests are asked in for a cup of 
> tea at most, never a meal or an overnight stay or (yikes) a four-day 
> visit?

As Ann Landers says, nobody can take advantage of you without your 
permission.




From nansie at bigsky.net  Wed Mar 13 14:17:58 2002
From: nansie at bigsky.net (nancy cleaveland)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:17:58 -0700
Subject: in-laws, & owls on Martha Stewart
References: <F151U9T3TGJ2TUSzbAU0001abe5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1ca99$f2b1a520$5cf4fcce@home>

Lurker de-cloaking to empathize with Mecki, et al. I have
the same out-laws. There's nothing "in" about them at all
<g>.

OWLS -- I saw a commercial for Martha Stewart Living
(television show) and Wednesday's show is to have a segment
about "Harry Potter's favorite owl, the snowy owl."

--nansie in mt






From meckelburg at foni.net  Wed Mar 13 14:37:39 2002
From: meckelburg at foni.net (mecki987)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:37:39 -0000
Subject: Thanks, In-laws
Message-ID: <a6no7j+5his@eGroups.com>

Thanks for your support!!

After a long quiet night-sleep (okay, not so quiet, my kids don't 
sleep through the night) I feel a lot better!

And I was so pleased when I read your responses: A group! One I can 
join, where others share the same experience!!< jumps exitedly up and 
down<

Please Tabouli, send me my acronym-badge per owl as soon as 
possible!!!


getting back to the kids
Mecki!




From ganvira at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 13 15:26:06 2002
From: ganvira at earthlink.net (Terry van Ettinger)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:26:06 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: in-laws, & owls on Martha Stewart
References: <F151U9T3TGJ2TUSzbAU0001abe5@hotmail.com> <001001c1ca99$f2b1a520$5cf4fcce@home>
Message-ID: <009501c1caa3$6566cb00$0797cd18@charterpipeline.com>

Didn't Martha already do an owl segment?  Or is she doing another one?

Terry, who usually doesn't really watch Martha, except for occasionally when
visiting family.
> OWLS -- I saw a commercial for Martha Stewart Living
> (television show) and Wednesday's show is to have a segment
> about "Harry Potter's favorite owl, the snowy owl."
>
> --nansie in mt





From TTTIGERESS at AOL.COM  Wed Mar 13 15:27:08 2002
From: TTTIGERESS at AOL.COM (TTTIGERESS at AOL.COM)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:27:08 EST
Subject: Has Everyone seen this?
Message-ID: <179.50124cb.29c0c9cc@aol.com>

ear Yahoo! Groups Members,

The Yahoo! Groups service will be down for scheduled maintenance
Friday, March 15, 9:00 PM PST (GMT-8) as we move our servers to a new
facility. We expect the service to be restored the morning of Sunday
March 17.

During this time the web site will be unavailable and email will not
be delivered. (Some users may experience email non-delivery notices
while the service is down, but all email should be delivered once
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will be email delays due to backlog. We expect these delays to last
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this will only add to delays.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.


The Yahoo! Groups Team



From heidit at netbox.com  Wed Mar 13 15:37:28 2002
From: heidit at netbox.com (heidit at netbox.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:37:28 -0500
Subject: The Eyre Affair
In-Reply-To: 6bca1e23
Message-ID: <16600678.816489912@imcingular.com>

I'm only 6 pages into it, but how can I resist a book where the heroine spends her day dealing with illegal traders, copyright infringers and fraud?

Must get back to that blasted trademark search report and application...

Heidi Tandy
Follow me to FictionAlley - Harry Potter fanfics of all shapes, sizes and ships - 7 sickles an ounce
http://www.FictionAlley.org



From keegan at mcn.org  Wed Mar 13 15:37:38 2002
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:37:38 -0800
Subject: In laws/birds
In-Reply-To: <a6njtm+10fs5@eGroups.com>
References: <a6ne0f+cs3n@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020313071439.00b93c70@mail.mcn.org>

At 01:24 PM 3/13/02 +0000, Joann wrote:
>--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "lupinesque" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> > And how about a rule that uninvited guests are asked in for a cup of
> > tea at most, never a meal or an overnight stay or (yikes) a four-day > 
> visit?
>
>As Ann Landers says, nobody can take advantage of you without your
>permission.

True and not true.  In-laws are one of those areas where no sane 
spouse  wants to put their "This is the hill I plan to die on" flag 
up.   It's almost a sure-fire way to have a truly hideous weekend with 
everyone's life in shambles.  No one wins.  I don't think anyone would have 
won on the unannounced 4 day visit, either.  I do hope the neighbors feel 
ashamed of themselves and understand that it was not a good thing that they 
did.

My only advice is to start making up or maybe just exaggerating a bit how 
busy your schedule is and how you won't be home hardly at all over the next 
few months.  It didn't work for me but it might work for you.

Storm, sorry to hear about the bird.  Euthenization is always tough.  I 
wonder if what you're talking about is the same thing as avian pox?  I've 
heard that called Avian Aids before but the birds don't always get 
euthenized.  It generally manifests itself as blisters that show up on the 
feet and some times the beak.  A soak in the blue stuff (can't remember its 
name right now) for ten minutes a day, a bunch of days a week some times 
helps it.  It's horribly contagious .  Separate gloves and aviaries 
required and you gotta sterilize the heck out of it.  Anything that goes 
wrong with a liver seems to make that long trip down to the tank.

How's the raven?

Catherine in California where it looks like the weather forecasters are 
wrong again and it might be a nice day...



From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Mar 13 15:46:31 2002
From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn Cawte)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:46:31 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The Eyre Affair
References: <16600678.816489912@imcingular.com>
Message-ID: <001301c1caa6$66ebdd00$5d0886d9@monica>

I hate you guys. I wandered into my local bookshop to find out about this book, just out of idle curiosity and not only ended up buying it but the copies of Quidditch through the Ages and Fantastic Beasts which were cunningly placed behind the counter were the weak-willed amongst us (ie me) would be unable to resist them, oh and the autobiography of Prof. Sid Watkins. I am now much poorer than I was when I left home and I blame you guys :)

K
If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor.
http://minievil.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: heidit at netbox.com 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 3:37 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The Eyre Affair


  I'm only 6 pages into it, but how can I resist a book where the heroine spends her day dealing with illegal traders, copyright infringers and fraud?

  Must get back to that blasted trademark search report and application...

  Heidi Tandy
  Follow me to FictionAlley - Harry Potter fanfics of all shapes, sizes and ships - 7 sickles an ounce
  http://www.FictionAlley.org



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From voicelady at mymailstation.com  Wed Mar 13 17:15:26 2002
From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:15:26 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The Eyre Affair
Message-ID: <id.13032002131526.00000@FPE>

I'm so glad you're all enjoying this book!

After I recommended it, I sat back and nervously chewed my nails - talking up a book to people who's literary choices I admire was kind of difficult.  What if you went out, spent the $23 and then didn't like it?  Oh the burden! <vbg>

Jeralyn, the Voicelady - who's going onto web view for a week because she and hubby are going to Ireland for vacation.



From bray.262 at osu.edu  Wed Mar 13 13:58:09 2002
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:58:09 EST5EDT
Subject: wanted to share this website
Message-ID: <A56FDD4E2E@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

This is one of my favorite websites.  It's updated daily 
(as the title suggests) and some of the articles have gone 
right along with some of the discussions we've been having 
here (but not written as over my head as some of your posts 
have been....I sheepishly admit that I am NOT a philosophy 
or sociology major and I have not had the pleasure of 
taking a class in either subject).

Hope you find an article or two that you enjoy!

http://www.aldaily.com/

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements


"Yes, I see your point, but as Dr. Rachel Bray said 
in her recently published paper 'Republican Themes in 
Beowulf,' Grendl truly is a respresentative of deep 
rooted hostility toward the kings attempt to centralize 
and control social issues."



From foxmoth at qnet.com  Wed Mar 13 19:04:45 2002
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:04:45 -0000
Subject: In LA? Catch this
Message-ID: <a6o7sd+nksa@eGroups.com>

Yesterday I saw an exhibit of costumes from last year's movies 
at  FIDM (Fashion Institute of Design and Merchandising) in 
downtown Los Angeles. The HP display had Harry's robes, a 
Gryffindor Quidditch outfit, the Bloody Baron, another adult  I 
couldn't identify, and a nice selection of wands. Definitely worth 
seeing, and it's free, though you might have to pay for parking. 
The exhibit runs through May 3.

They've also got costumes from LOTR including a seven foot 
armored Sauron suit, and beautifully beaded elven garb. Very 
cool.


Pippin




From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Wed Mar 13 19:49:36 2002
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:49:36 -0000
Subject: In laws/birds
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20020313071439.00b93c70@mail.mcn.org>
Message-ID: <a6oagg+98cp@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Catherine Keegan <keegan at m...> wrote:
> At 01:24 PM 3/13/02 +0000, Joann wrote:
> >--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "lupinesque" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> > > And how about a rule that uninvited guests are asked in for a cup of
> > > tea at most, never a meal or an overnight stay or (yikes) a four-day > 
> > visit?
> >
> >As Ann Landers says, nobody can take advantage of you without your
> >permission.
> 
> True and not true.  In-laws are one of those areas where no sane 
> spouse  wants to put their "This is the hill I plan to die on" flag 
> up.   It's almost a sure-fire way to have a truly hideous weekend with 
> everyone's life in shambles.  No one wins. 

Whether you believe in biblical injunctions or not, in any successful marriage, 
each spouse has to put the marriage ahead of other family priorities -- including 
their parents and their children.  A spouse shouldn't have to put up any flag -- 
they should be able to count on their spouse for support in in-law issues.  Nobody 
should have to put up with unwanted houseguests.




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Wed Mar 13 20:32:27 2002
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catorman)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:32:27 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The Eyre Affair
In-Reply-To: <id.13032002131526.00000@FPE>
Message-ID: <a6od0r+jic9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "voicelady" <voicelady at m...> wrote:
> I'm so glad you're all enjoying this book!
> 
> After I recommended it, I sat back and nervously chewed my nails - 
talking up a book to people who's literary choices I admire was kind 
of difficult.  What if you went out, spent the $23 and then didn't 
like it?  Oh the burden! <vbg>
> 
> Jeralyn, the Voicelady - who's going onto web view for a week 
because she and hubby are going to Ireland for vacation.

I loved it, and I'm really happy that the sequel is out in July.  Was 
anyone else quite as anal as me in that they checked their own copies 
of Jane Eyre to find out what was there and what wasn't?  

A tip for all Americans who don't want to pay for the hardback.  It's 
in paperback in the UK, and can be ordered from Amazon.co.uk - for 
about $8.

Anyway.. Thanks Jeralyn!

Catherine




From moongirlk at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 13 20:40:31 2002
From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:40:31 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The Eyre Affair
In-Reply-To: <a6od0r+jic9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6odfv+597k@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "catorman" <catherine at c...> wrote:
>  Was 
> anyone else quite as anal as me in that they checked their own 
copies 
> of Jane Eyre to find out what was there and what wasn't?  

Well, I'm on page 80 and decided today that I'd better pick up a new 
copy.  I haven't read Jane Eyre since it was required reading in high 
school.  I thought I remembered it well enough, but now I'm not so 
sure... I'm starting to wonder exactly what I *do* remember.  Such 
fun!  

kimberly
possibly more suggestible than she thought




From keegan at mcn.org  Wed Mar 13 22:03:09 2002
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:03:09 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: In laws/birds
In-Reply-To: <a6oagg+98cp@eGroups.com>
References: <4.2.0.58.20020313071439.00b93c70@mail.mcn.org>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020313140123.00b41350@mail.mcn.org>

At 07:49 PM 3/13/02 +0000, Joann wrote:
>-> True and not true.  In-laws are one of those areas where no sane
> > spouse  wants to put their "This is the hill I plan to die on" flag
> > up.   It's almost a sure-fire way to have a truly hideous weekend with
> > everyone's life in shambles.  No one wins.
>
>Whether you believe in biblical injunctions or not, in any successful 
>marriage,
>each spouse has to put the marriage ahead of other family priorities -- 
>including
>their parents and their children.  A spouse shouldn't have to put up any 
>flag --
>they should be able to count on their spouse for support in in-law 
>issues.  Nobody
>should have to put up with unwanted houseguests.

*Raises white flag at the mere mention of biblical anything*

I agree in the most part.  And, saying that and understanding how buttons 
get pushed, I'll leave it be.

My Mars is bright tonight....

Catherine in California



From keegan at mcn.org  Wed Mar 13 22:12:05 2002
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:12:05 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] In LA? Catch this
In-Reply-To: <a6o7sd+nksa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020313140454.00b20760@mail.mcn.org>

At 07:04 PM 3/13/02 +0000, Pippin wrote:
>Yesterday I saw an exhibit of costumes from last year's movies
>at  FIDM (Fashion Institute of Design and Merchandising) in
>downtown Los Angeles. The HP display had Harry's robes, a
>Gryffindor Quidditch outfit, the Bloody Baron, another adult  I
>couldn't identify, and a nice selection of wands.

Did they have any postcards or publications on the exhibit?  I checked 
their website and they didn't seem to have anything on HP or LotR.  Quills 
and Gladiator were a yes, though

How cool!  I would have loved to see it.  Hmmm. LA is only *mumble* eight 
hours south...

Catherine




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Wed Mar 13 22:22:36 2002
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:22:36 -0000
Subject: scream
In-Reply-To: <a6lce3+4ln2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6ojfc+bo7v@eGroups.com>

Mecki wrote:
> 
> 
> AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!

    I expect I would have politely told them  I wasn't expecting 
company, and invited them to register at the nearest hotel. 
And if they wouldn't go, I would! ;--)

Pippin
who's lucky her MIL isn't like that.




From john at walton.vu  Wed Mar 13 22:26:49 2002
From: john at walton.vu (John Walton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:26:49 +0000
Subject: ADMIN: Yahoo down this weekend
Message-ID: <B8B582A9.C638%john@walton.vu>

Greetings from the HPFGU Hexquarters, where we have just received an owl
from Lord Yahoomort himself.

____________________________________________

Dear DeathEater! Groups Members,

The DeathEater! Groups service will be down for scheduled maintenance
Friday, March 15, 9:00 PM PST (GMT-8) as we move our servers to a new
facility. We expect the service to be restored the morning of Sunday
March 17.

During this time the web site will be unavailable and email will not
be delivered. (Some users may experience email non-delivery notices
while the service is down, but all email should be delivered once
service is resumed.) Please note: once the service is restored, there
will be email delays due to backlog. We expect these delays to last
no longer than 1 day. Please do not re-send email to your group as
this will only add to delays.
____________________________________________

Which is nice. Again.

Well, folks, all that the Mods can say is that we hope that you enjoy a
little bit of rest and relaxation from the HPFGUniverse this weekend. If
you're craving your Harry Potter fix, you could always try FictionAlleyPark,
at www.fictionalley.org/fictionalleypark, where some of the Mods and your
fellow listies hang out, talking about much more than just fanfic.

Sunday Chat will go on as scheduled for Sunday. As Yahoo!Groups will be
down, the easiest way to access it will be via CheetaChat (for PCs) or
miChat (for Macs). Here's the lowdown:

Every week, we have a chat in a Yahoo Chat Room (HP:1) which usually starts
between 3 and 4 pm US Eastern Time and ends at 7, 8, 9 or even later! (UK
time: add five hours. US Pacific Time: subtract three hours)

Consult www.versiontracker.com for the latest upgrades to these. Generally,
all you will need is your Yahoo ID and the chatroom name (HP:1). If you have
problems with setting these up, please contact the Mods at
HPforGrownups-Owner at yahoogroups.com until Yahoo goes into hibernation. After
that, you can email me personally at john at walton.vu and I'll be more than
happy to help out with any problems.

If there's interest, you should all feel free to be in the chatroom whenever
you want over this weekend -- so go for it :)

Magically yours,

--John, technoModerator with Rock #47
for the HPFGU Moderator Team

____________________________________________

"Summoned, I take the place that has been prepared for me. I am Grey.
I stand between the candle and the star.
We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light."
        --Delenn, Babylon 5

John Walton || john at walton.vu
____________________________________________




From voicelady at mymailstation.com  Wed Mar 13 22:09:20 2002
From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:09:20 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] scream
Message-ID: <id.13032002180920.00000@FPE>

Mecki wrote:
> 
> 
> AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!

Now I feel guilty about having a good relationship with my in-laws....



From boggles at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 13 23:48:07 2002
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:48:07 -0600
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Crouch Jr and Mystery DEs, Fourth Man,
 SYCOPHANTS
In-Reply-To: <a6omsc+6cj0@eGroups.com>
References: <a6omsc+6cj0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <f05010406b8b5947831a2@[199.174.12.221]>

Replying to Chatter, as there's no canon in my reply here:

At 11:20 PM +0000 3/13/02, ssk7882 wrote:
>
>>  But remember that the crew of the Avery kayak: Elkins, Cindy,
>>  Eileen (and anyone else?)...
>
>Well, Porphyria once agreed to join us, but I think that she was
>probably just being polite.

Hey, I'm an enthusiastic supporter of Fourth Man, particularly the 
SHIP and Remorse versions - especially since I suspect that it is 
either true or disprovable (that is, canon will either eventually 
support it or never mention anything that disproves it).

>That is true, I'm afraid, but you don't really have to be morbid and
>bloody-minded to adhere to the Fourth Man theory.

I'm not much for FEATHERBOAS, either, I'm afraid.

><Elkins resumes her seat in the kayak.  It occurs to her that she's
>*really* got to work on that oratory thing.  That last bit somehow
>just didn't have quite the inspirational *punch* that she had been
>hoping for.  She scrawls a note to herself: "To Do List: (1) Work on
>oratory.  (2) Try to avoid weak endings.">

You might try to work "if you prick us, do we not bleed?" into the 
next version of that speech . . .  ;)

-- 
  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles at earthlink.net
=== Personal Growth Geek Code v0.4 ===
GG++ !T A-- M++s--- g+ B- C- P++++ a- b- h+ her++ E+ N n++ i f+
c++ S%++++&&># D R++ xc++ xm+ xi+ yd++ ys++(-) rt+ ro+ rp++++ rjk<+
ow+++ ofn+ oft++ op++ esk-- ey+ ek+++ pl++ pf++ pe++ U!



From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Thu Mar 14 01:19:09 2002
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:19:09 -0000
Subject: In laws/birds
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20020313140123.00b41350@mail.mcn.org>
Message-ID: <a6otqd+mnr1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Catherine Keegan <keegan at m...> wrote:
> At 07:49 PM 3/13/02 +0000, Joann wrote:
> >Whether you believe in biblical injunctions or not, in any successful 
> >marriage,
> >each spouse has to put the marriage ahead of other family priorities --  . . . 
> 
> *Raises white flag at the mere mention of biblical anything*
> 
> I agree in the most part.  And, saying that and understanding how buttons 
> get pushed, I'll leave it be.

Yikes, sorry, I didn't mean to start any biblical button-pushing, that's why I said, 
"whether or not".  The reference was just a memory jog for those who are 
familiar with the biblical text, I didn't really mean to introduce a religious element 
into the discussion!




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Thu Mar 14 02:10:34 2002
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:10:34 +1100
Subject: Acronyms for the SOILED
Message-ID: <007301c1cafe$31144340$3c51dccb@price>

Mary Ann:
> While we're thinking up delightful scenarios involving various in-laws (the 
bus with bad brakes; gee, where did that stray bullet come from?) let's ask 
Tabouli for a nifty acronym and see if we can have some badges made up ;)<

Mecki:
> Please Tabouli, send me my acronym-badge per owl as soon as 
possible!!!<

How vicious do you want to be here?  You could go for a simple badge, describing how your vile in-laws make you feel:

SOILED
(Survivors Of In-Law Executed Demoralisation)

My Shakespeare's a bit shaky these days, and my Complete Works is lost in my parents' house somewhere (who killed who in MacBeth again?) but for the more violent options, you could have:

VEILED MACBETH
(Vitamise Evil In-Laws Endlessly Declaring: "My Angelic Child, Bonded Eternally To HER!" (or HIM, of course))

Otherwise, I'll get back to you tonight with something even nastier...

Tabouli

P.S. Ahh, Dicentra, I see you share my irritation with what I call the "Unwashed Masses factor"... if it's popular it must be bad!  Let's go spray graffiti on their ivory tower some time... (glances thoughtfully at Elkins, a known graffiti artist on the main list...)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From editor at texas.net  Thu Mar 14 03:09:55 2002
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:09:55 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: in-laws, & owls on Martha Stewart
References: <F151U9T3TGJ2TUSzbAU0001abe5@hotmail.com> <001001c1ca99$f2b1a520$5cf4fcce@home>
Message-ID: <00c601c1cb05$b8a85880$1e7c63d1@texas.net>

Responding to a random inlaw message.

Typically for a Geist, I will buck the trend. Atypically for a Geist, I am
serious.

I know inlaws can be a pain. I know some of them should be taken out and
pushed through an outhouse hole headfirst. Still. Still. Know the riches
you've got.

My mother died when I was 21. Jan's parents were both dead before I met him.
Only my father was alive when we married. He lived to see my oldest child,
and got to hold her once; he died when she was 3 months old. My uncle and
aunt-by-marriage on my mother's side died before my children were born. My
aunt on my father's side died the *day* my daughter was born. Her husband,
my distant uncle-by-marriage, died on my daughter's fifth birthday; she had
never seen him. His passing marked the very last of the older generation of
my family. My husband has one living aunt, far away in Ohio, who has seen my
children only once.

My brothers live 200 miles away, made little effort in the past to sustain a
relationship, and now are actively trying *not* to have one. Jan's brother
and sister live far away in California, have seen my oldest child twice,
middle child once, and my youngest, never.

I am never irritated by my children's grandparents. I never have to be an
ogre when I override some overly-permissive grandparent's or uncle's
promise. My parenting skills are neither questioned nor criticized. I will
never have to deal with the embarrassment of my children learning the
escapades of my youth. I never have to "repair" my children's manners after
they've picked up bad habits after a stay with relatives. I will never have
to hear how my mother or mother-in-law dealt with swallowed baby teeth,
fevers, or tantrums, or how they patched perfectly good jeans instead of
buying new ones like lazy people do. I never had my house taken over when I
brought my babies home. I am never interfered with when disciplining my
children.

I am a wonderful wife and nobody will ever tell me different. I will never
have to sit through boring evenings hearing about my husband's misspent
youth. I never have to pretend to like some inedible Traditional Old Family
dish. I don't have to shoo anyone out of my kitchen for puttering around in
my way. I never will.

Lucky me.

--Amanda

--------------
"Wisdom is found on the desolate hillside, El-ahrairah, where none comes to
feed, and the stony bank where the rabbit scratches a hole in vain."
 --Watership Down




From macloudt at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 14 11:14:56 2002
From: macloudt at hotmail.com (Mary Jennings)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:14:56 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: in-laws and family
Message-ID: <F105d7KKQpQq5pneeFU0001c7db@hotmail.com>

Amandageist said:

>My mother died when I was 21. Jan's parents were both dead before I met 
>him.
>Only my father was alive when we married. He lived to see my oldest child,
>and got to hold her once; he died when she was 3 months old. My uncle and
>aunt-by-marriage on my mother's side died before my children were born. My
>aunt on my father's side died the *day* my daughter was born. Her husband,
>my distant uncle-by-marriage, died on my daughter's fifth birthday; she had
>never seen him. His passing marked the very last of the older generation of
>my family. My husband has one living aunt, far away in Ohio, who has seen 
>my
>children only once.
>
>My brothers live 200 miles away, made little effort in the past to sustain 
>a
>relationship, and now are actively trying *not* to have one. Jan's brother
>and sister live far away in California, have seen my oldest child twice,
>middle child once, and my youngest, never.

Gads, that's difficult.  I'm so sorry you lost so many people in such a 
short space of time.  Losing contact is no fun either.  <schnoogle>

Despite the fact that my family live in Canada and the Netherlands (none 
here in England) I'm lucky to have a close relationship with them.  On the 
other hand, DH has loads of extended family members living in the same town 
as us, but he has no contact with them.  I'm not sure why, but I know MIL 
didn't get on with *her* in-laws, and that may have something to do with it. 
  In fact, MIL is the only one with whom I don't get on.  I'll spare you the 
details, but let's just say I'm waiting for an apology.  Yes, I'm holding a 
grudge, and I know it's childish, but I simply can't forgive her outright.  
She has to show some effort, but I'm not holding my breath.  DH is very 
close to his siblings, and I get on with them as well.  I've always liked my 
FIL but hardly see him now.  DH takes the kids to see his parents, so 
they're not missing out.

Ah, family dynamics...how fascinating, how enthralling, how dysfunctional ;) 
  I've yet to meet one person who wouldn't trade at least one family member 
(close or distant) for a pet tarantula.  Come to think of it, though, most 
people I know, including myself and DH, come from large extended families, 
with more chances for feuding and griping.  I love all my extended family, 
but let's just say I have no plans to *ever* be at the reading of a family 
member's will!  <ducks from flying furniture>

Sadly my parents' generation is passing away as well.  I lost my mom to 
cancer 2 years ago (the only time I really regretted moving so far away), my 
Dad is 75 and showing signs of slowing down mentally and physically, and 
I've lost several aunts and uncles over the past few years.  I'm lucky to 
have some very good friends here who I consider my surrogate family.  
Sometimes you just have to plod on, don't you?

Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for that alien abduction...

Mary Ann ;)

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx




From miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au  Thu Mar 14 12:52:51 2002
From: miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au (storm)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:52:51 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] birds ... in laws ...
References: <1016031522.511.8220.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c1cb57$4f206180$dbca8ec6@storm>

> > At 09:18 PM 3/12/02 +1000, Storm wrote:
> >by the way - Cathrine in Calafornia what do you do in the way of wildlife
> >rehab?

> I worked with the Lindsay Wildlife Hospital

does this service have a web site? I will do a google search anyway.

for several years as a
> volunteer.  Loved it.  I especially enjoyed the raptors.  Birds are just
> great!  Except for when they're chicks and have to be fed every twenty
> minutes or so, they require little care (assuming they're not horribly
> ill).  Volunteers did everything from the endless laundry (don't try to
> think about what kinds of things went into the washing machine, you don't
> want to know)

gosh I already know about the laundry! I have about 30 towels and one really
sick bird can use them all in a week! Because I work full time I won't have the
chicks. That's why I'm going for the big (ish) aviary ... so the nearly grown up
birds can learn to fly and hunt insects and the grown up birds who can feed
themselves but can't fly. We almost never see raptours in this area ...
insectavores, nectavoures and small omnivores.

> to cleaning cages, to assisting with the procedures (the
> best!).  The Lindsay offered a variety of training to the volunteers so you
> could learn to identify birds or do necropsies to determine the cause of
> death.  I took everything I could.

Oh that sounds fabulous! Everything we do is volenteer, in our own homes, so the
quality of care is variable. The system you were working with sounds much better
for the animals. Most of the vets in this area are dog and cat vets and have no
idea about wild animals. One local vet has twice missed broken wings, including
one that was gangreneness. Not ever going there again.
>
> The hospital saw a wide variety of urban wildlife from one cougar, a few
> bobcats, a baby beaver (too cute to be believed), an adult beaver (huge!),
> a couple of the tiniest coyotes I've ever seen (they tend to be small in
> the Contra Costa area), and a staggering amount of raccoons, opossums,
> squirrels, gophers, snakes, lizards, western pond turtles, and birds - tons
> of birds.

oh fabulous! We mostly see birds, birds and more birds! Some lizards and snakes
and losts of possums. There are romours of echidnas in Sydney but I've not heard
of one coming into care.
>
> I wasn't in a position to do home care at the time.  I didn't think the
> data center would enjoy  little squawking visitors and, between
> oncall,  maintenance day duties and trying to get a house built, I wasn't
> around enough to provide the kind of home care necessary for birds or
> mammals.  I've been trying to get into the rehabber network in Mendocino
> and have failed miserably.  There is no structure like the hospital here
> and only one licensed rehabber who doesn't want to take on much more work
> and you can't work here without a license.   You have to be a 501C right
> now to get one.

we can't work without a licence either but it sounds like they are a lot easier,
because there are a few orgs like WIRES, to get here than there. I just did a
two day course but you do have to be a member of a organisation.
>
> Good luck with your aviary.  Are you going to partition it for the odd crew
> you'll be taking care of?  Might make it a bit small but it's better than
> finding that your three birds has dwindled to one.

I only have two now, they are compatable as they will equally regard each other
as lunch! I love Magpies they play a lot and have a lovely voice.

> Ravens are
> great.  Smart and generally easy to feed.  The Lindsay had one that would
> do anything for a meal worm.  (Imprinted, of course)

Of course! I think ravens are wonderful I think ours are a differnt type to
yours. This is the first one I've had in care. Still they are reputed to be very
smart.
>
> I'll have to check out your site and see if they list what the requirements
> are for aviaries, etc...  IWRC rules are the standard here so everything
> seems to be based off a 4'x8' piece of plywood.

there doesn't seem to be a standard .. I'm using an ex-rottwiler run (!) and it
has been so much work getting it ready ... and it's still not ready. (winge on).
Everytime I do something someone says 'oh no, you should have have done this
(the complete opposite generally). Part of my problem has been there is no
standard and despite LOTS of reaseach I have found it really hard to find out
what I need to do. the galvanised/non-galvanized steel and shadcloth/no
shadecloth debates have just about killed me. I'm really not confident I've made
the right decisions. My bird co-ordinator (local branches have volenteers who
are specific animal co-ords) is lovely but has not been very helpful. It all
depends on what one is going to keep and I guess I don't know yet so I've been
trying to keep my options open. Having said that, at this stage I think I've
gone the wrong way but now know the right way. I can live with what I've got for
the next 6 months and will then renovate.
>
> Storm, sorry to hear about the bird.  Euthenization is always tough.

thanks. It's an aweful decision. Join WIRES and kill the wildlife I always say.
I console myself that it's better than being ripped to pieces by a dog or cat
but it never feels like much at the time.

> I wonder if what you're talking about is the same thing as avian pox?
> I've heard that called Avian Aids before but the birds don't always get
> euthenized.  It generally manifests itself as blisters that show up
> on the feet and some times the beak.  A soak in the blue stuff (can't
> remember its name right now) for ten minutes a day, a bunch of days a week
> some times
> helps it.  It's horribly contagious .  Separate gloves and aviaries
> required and you gotta sterilize the heck out of it.  Anything that
> goes
> wrong with a liver seems to make that long trip down to the tank.

no we have a pox too (spread by mozzies). we treat that with betadine. yup
that's horrid. And since I have bucket loads of mozzies in my place I'm going to
have to net the aviary (see whinge above!) No sence in leaving care with more
(or different) problems to those you arrived with.
>
> How's the raven?

not arriving till Friday or Saturday ... I don't know what's wrong with it. The
current carer (going on holidays) says the vet has said it has a sprained wing
(but has been in care for a very long time without any improvement) so we might
be off to the vet (again) to get a re-exam.

> Good luck with your new birds!  May they fly healthy and free soon!  (I am
> so jealous.)
>
> Catherine in California - birdless and missing it terribly.
>

Mecek - I'm sorry to hear about your parents in law. they sound like
nasty-to-you people. I hope you and your partner sort out some arrangement with
them.

storm, who has a house full of sick dogs :-(






From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu Mar 14 14:22:01 2002
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:22:01 -0000
Subject: Another missed joke
Message-ID: <a6qbm9+6193@eGroups.com>

Can't tell if this is on-topic or off, but I reckon any replies will 
almost certainly be off-topic, so here it goes.

Question for US (well all non-British) members: do you use the 
expression 'take the piss' to mean to mock, or wind up, usually good-
naturedly?

It's another of those HP jokes I hadn't quite grasped until now.  
When Dumbledore tells Karkaroff about the chamber pot room, Harry 
thinks he is joking, to Percy's disapproval.  What I only just 
noticed for the first time is that Dumbledore's comment about a full 
bladder is a signal that it *is* a joke.  He is saying, for those 
with ears to hear, that he is taking the piss.

David, who thinks Jessica and Jo have conversations like:

'Mummy, I bet you can't make Harry do a poo in the next book!'
'I bet I can... Now, let me think...'





From keegan at mcn.org  Thu Mar 14 15:14:47 2002
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:14:47 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Another missed joke
In-Reply-To: <a6qbm9+6193@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020314071229.00a72970@mail.mcn.org>

At 02:22 PM 3/14/02 +0000, you wrote:
>Question for US (well all non-British) members: do you use the
>expression 'take the piss' to mean to mock, or wind up, usually good-
>naturedly?
*blinks* Never.  I've heard "piss up a rope" i.e. something that's 
impossible.  "Get pissed" for getting drunk.  "Pissy" as in a bad 
mood.  "Piss on your/my wheaties" for destroying/belittiling someone's ideas.

Catherine in California



From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 14 15:20:07 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:20:07 -0000
Subject: Another missed joke
In-Reply-To: <a6qbm9+6193@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6qf38+3eqb@eGroups.com>

David asked:

> Question for US (well all non-British) members: do you use the 
> expression 'take the piss' to mean to mock, or wind up, usually 
good-
> naturedly?

Nope, never heard that one.

Amy
glad to have an excuse for having missed this joke




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 14 15:25:44 2002
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:25:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: in-laws
In-Reply-To: <00c601c1cb05$b8a85880$1e7c63d1@texas.net>
Message-ID: <20020314152544.30436.qmail@web14601.mail.yahoo.com>

Amanda wrote a wonderful post, so now I'll add one as
well.

I don't have a mother-in-law, nor a father-in-law.
Andy's father died before I met him, though having
heard various horror stories from his sister (and I do
mean horror stories, but that's another post), I
consider myself lucky not to have met the man. Their
mother died when Andy was young. He has stepmother.
I've met her once. She was not invited to our wedding.
Andy's choice and I've been told by all his siblings
that she would have declined the invite anyway,
thinking the wedding was too far away (an hour drive).

Andy does have lots of siblings, 8 older brothers and
1 older sister. They aren't a particularly close
family. We rarely see most of then, despite the fact
that all but 2 live nearby. One brother lives upstairs
of us and we hardly see him, except in passing or when
it's time for him to pay us the rent. I'm pretty good
friends with his sister, but we were friends before I
met Andy.

I find it all very strange, coming from a close
family. I only have one sister, but we see each other
often. She calls on me for things like replacing the
nanny on her day off, to tell me about books she found
that I'd like, stuff like that. I took her eldest son
off to Toronto in 2000 for JKR's reading at the
SkyDome, just because I could.

My parents live about 40 miles from us, and not only
do we see them often, my mother calls every couple of
days. My father never calls, but that's because he's
not a phone person. If you ever actually get him on
the phone, it's a short conversation; he doesn't
believe in making small talk. He'll hang up when he's
done, without a 'good-bye'. When he's done, he's done.

My mother's family is all very far away, the closest
living a 4 day drive from us. We still see them as
often as possible and we call often. We plan family
reunions every few years, just to make sure we don't
go too long without seeing each other. No matter how
far away we are, we get there unless there's some
serious reason to prevent our attending. My Mom's
youngest brother drove for 2 straight days(well, he
says he stopped for a couple hours to sleep) to the
last reunion.

My father's family is much closer (a 10 hour drive
away) and we see them as much as we can. Every second
year, it's a drive down to spend Christmas with my
grandmother, who at age 82 still lives alone. My
father is the oldest of 9 and most of his siblings
still live very close to home. A trip to the east
coast is not really relaxing, as it's a continual
visit from one house to the next. Mind you, I'm not
complaining. 

I'm very lucky. I not only grew up with 4
grandparents, I also had 2 great-grandmothers. One
dies when I was 18, the other when I was about 27.
Nyssa doesn't remember, but there was a time, for
about 3 years, when she had a great-great-grandmother
living. One of the most treasured things I own is a 5
generation photo.

Do all these relatives give me lots of unwanted
advice? Sure they do. Would they putter in my kitchen
and get underfoot? Of course. But I putter in their
kitchens as well. I'll take the advice and
inconvenience anyday, because I get the bonuses that
go with them. 

And much as I complain about my mother, I love her to
death. We're entirely too much alike, a week-long
vacation can drive us both to the brink of insanity or
homicide. That doesn't stop us from doing it. My
mother takes Nyssa (my daughter) and Austin (my
sister's oldest) on vacation, giving us a break from
kids for a bit. When the kids need something we can't
afford, Grandma and Grandpa are always picking up the
slack for us. Nyssa doesn't know it yet, but Grandma
is paying her first year of university. My parents are
also taking Nyssa and Austin to Europe for 2 weeks
this summer, graduation gift to Nyssa. They took them
to Alaska and the Yukon 2 years ago. These kids are
lucky and they know it. They don't take it for granted
that their grandparents will buy them things or take
them places, but they certainly appreciate it when it
happens. 

It might sound like I'm bragging a bit, but that's not
it. More like counting my blessings. 

Sheryll, who knows she's got something good




=====
"We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times."
 blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26

______________________________________________________________________ 
Find, Connect, Date! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From jdumas at kingwoodcable.com  Thu Mar 14 15:36:01 2002
From: jdumas at kingwoodcable.com (Katze)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:36:01 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Another missed joke
References: <a6qbm9+6193@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3C90C361.CE34B399@kingwoodcable.com>

davewitley wrote:

> Question for US (well all non-British) members: do you use the
> expression 'take the piss' to mean to mock, or wind up, usually good-
> naturedly?
> 

I never even considered this meaning. I say 'take a piss' when I'm about
to go to the potty. I am familiar with 'getting pissed' though, but I
much prefer 'let's get blasted'.

-Katze



From moongirlk at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 14 16:02:12 2002
From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:02:12 -0000
Subject: Another missed joke
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20020314071229.00a72970@mail.mcn.org>
Message-ID: <a6qhi4+e0tn@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Catherine Keegan <keegan at m...> wrote:
> At 02:22 PM 3/14/02 +0000, you wrote:
> >Question for US (well all non-British) members: do you use the
> >expression 'take the piss' to mean to mock, or wind up, usually 
good-
> >naturedly?
> *blinks* Never.  I've heard "piss up a rope" i.e. something that's 
> impossible.  "Get pissed" for getting drunk.  "Pissy" as in a bad 
> mood.  "Piss on your/my wheaties" for destroying/belittiling 
someone's ideas.
> 
> Catherine in California

I think I've heard "Take the piss out of (someone)", which I think is 
sort of like taking the wind out of their sails.  But in the context 
you're talking about, you got me.  So is that really a thing?

kimberly




From dracos_boyfriend at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Mar 14 16:26:23 2002
From: dracos_boyfriend at yahoo.co.uk (dracos_boyfriend)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:26:23 -0000
Subject: Another missed joke
In-Reply-To: <a6qbm9+6193@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6qivf+1fhr@eGroups.com>

Dave ... "Question for US (well all non-British) members: do you use 
the expression 'take the piss' to mean to mock, or wind up, usually 
good-naturedly?"

They don't.  Linguistically speaking there is no direct equivalent in 
US colloquial English for 'taking the piss' (after Bryson, 'Notes 
>From A Small Island (1994) or possibly 'Mother Tongue' (1996?)) - 
whereas it's such a fundamental part of British life that we simply 
don't notice it.  This does, of course, mean Brits abroad frequently 
end up red-faced and having to frantically apologise for a good-
natured joke that was taken the wrong way.  You may recognise the 
voice of experience there ::winks::

Kudos to you for spotting it, though.  That :never: occured to me 
before.  Memo to self: get more obsessed with HP than you already are.

Alex

::scurries back to lurkdom::





From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 14 17:52:29 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:52:29 -0000
Subject: Dingdingdingdingdingding!  (was Another missed joke)
In-Reply-To: <a6qivf+1fhr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6qo0t+n62c@eGroups.com>

<bells go off, the enchanted ceiling of HPfGU-OT opens, and showers 
of Every Flavor Beans fall on Alex>

You have just posted the 10,000th message to OTChatter!  Woohoooo!

It only took us about a year, too.  Let offtopicness reign! (and let 
BBEFBs rain!)

Amy




From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Mar 14 18:01:51 2002
From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:01:51 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Dingdingdingdingdingding!  (was Another missed joke)
References: <a6qo0t+n62c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000701c1cb82$5293f5e0$092886d9@monica>

*looks at the hea of BBEFBs that was once Alex*
*Wonders how easy it is to breath when buried in beans*
Should one of us maybe dig her out of there?

K
If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor.
http://minievil.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: lupinesque 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 5:52 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Dingdingdingdingdingding! (was Another missed joke)


  <bells go off, the enchanted ceiling of HPfGU-OT opens, and showers 
  of Every Flavor Beans fall on Alex>

  You have just posted the 10,000th message to OTChatter!  Woohoooo!

  It only took us about a year, too.  Let offtopicness reign! (and let 
  BBEFBs rain!)

  Amy


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From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Thu Mar 14 18:05:46 2002
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:05:46 -0000
Subject: Dingdingdingdingdingding!  (was Another missed joke)
In-Reply-To: <000701c1cb82$5293f5e0$092886d9@monica>
Message-ID: <a6qopq+hpcm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Kathryn" <kcawte at k...> wrote:
> *looks at the hea of BBEFBs that was once Alex*
> *Wonders how easy it is to breath when buried in beans*
> Should one of us maybe dig her out of there?
> 
> K
[snip]

I do hope you meant "him" and not "her"?

Best regards
Christian Stub?




From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Mar 14 18:42:35 2002
From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:42:35 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Dingdingdingdingdingding!  (was Another missed joke)
References: <a6qopq+hpcm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001801c1cb88$03649a00$092886d9@monica>

I did, but I also meant heap rather than hea too :)

K
If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor.
http://minievil.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: pengolodh_sc 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 6:05 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Dingdingdingdingdingding! (was Another missed joke)


  --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Kathryn" <kcawte at k...> wrote:
  > *looks at the hea of BBEFBs that was once Alex*
  > *Wonders how easy it is to breath when buried in beans*
  > Should one of us maybe dig her out of there?
  > 
  > K
  [snip]

  I do hope you meant "him" and not "her"?

  Best regards
  Christian Stub?


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
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  ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

  Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/

  Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying!

  Is your message...
  An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
  Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
  Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
  None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
  Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From boggles at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 14 19:18:50 2002
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:18:50 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Another missed joke
In-Reply-To: <a6qhi4+e0tn@eGroups.com>
References: <a6qhi4+e0tn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <f05010402b8b6a7cace78@[199.174.15.39]>

At 4:02 PM +0000 3/14/02, moongirlk wrote:
>
>I think I've heard "Take the piss out of (someone)", which I think is
>sort of like taking the wind out of their sails.

Same here.  As a matter of fact, I first ran into this one in an 
interview with Right Said Fred, which dates me, I'm sure.

-- 
  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles at earthlink.net
=== Personal Growth Geek Code v0.4 ===
GG++ !T A-- M++s--- g+ B- C- P++++ a- b- h+ her++ E+ N n++ i f+
c++ S%++++&&># D R++ xc++ xm+ xi+ yd++ ys++(-) rt+ ro+ rp++++ rjk<+
ow+++ ofn+ oft++ op++ esk-- ey+ ek+++ pl++ pf++ pe++ U!



From boggles at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 14 20:21:17 2002
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:21:17 -0600
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Is Hogwarts Public or Private? (I was using
 the American version of the word
In-Reply-To: <a6qqai+62jc@eGroups.com>
References: <a6qqai+62jc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <f05010403b8b6b5760585@[199.174.15.39]>

Again, veering off-topic and thus replying to Chatter:

At 6:31 PM +0000 3/14/02, siriuskase wrote:
>
>Americans would call Hogwarts a "statewide residential magnet
>school for students with a strong aptitude" in the magic arts. 
>I copied this almost verbatom from the website of one:
>
>                             http://www.ncssm.edu/
>
>That one is supported by taxes and would be called public.

Yup.  There's a series of these, sometimes called the "governors' 
schools" or "the academies" by those of us who attend them.  They're 
essentially state-funded boarding prep schools, and they don't charge 
tuition although there are sometimes yearly fees for supplies.  I 
went to the Mississippi one, as did/do two of my brothers.  (My 
sister's applying this year.)  Several things, including the slippery 
schedule, the stress level, occasional things blowing up in the 
hallways, and a few teachers who are fantastic at their field but not 
too good at teaching it, about Hogwarts remind me very strongly of 
the governors' schools.


-- 
  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles at earthlink.net
=== Personal Growth Geek Code v0.4 ===
GG++ !T A-- M++s--- g+ B- C- P++++ a- b- h+ her++ E+ N n++ i f+
c++ S%++++&&># D R++ xc++ xm+ xi+ yd++ ys++(-) rt+ ro+ rp++++ rjk<+
ow+++ ofn+ oft++ op++ esk-- ey+ ek+++ pl++ pf++ pe++ U!



From bonnie at niche-associates.com  Thu Mar 14 20:23:50 2002
From: bonnie at niche-associates.com (dicentra_spectabilis_alba)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:23:50 -0000
Subject: Unwashed masses factor
In-Reply-To: <007301c1cafe$31144340$3c51dccb@price>
Message-ID: <a6r0sm+ldi7@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Tabouli" <tabouli at u...> wrote:
> 
> P.S. Ahh, Dicentra, I see you share my irritation with what I call
the "Unwashed Masses factor"... if it's popular it must be bad!  Let's
go spray graffiti on their ivory tower some time... (glances
thoughtfully at Elkins, a known graffiti artist on the main list...)
> 

No, no. It's not BAD, it's Beneath Us. Unfortunately, they would
probably appreciate the graffiti because it's "anti-bourgeois" (read:
their parents would disapprove).  What would really get their goats
(not Aberforth's) would be a chorus of people saying the Emperor is
buck nekkid. That's their worst fear--being Found Out.

--Dicentra, who got out in time




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 14 21:34:23 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:34:23 -0000
Subject: Unwashed masses factor
In-Reply-To: <a6r0sm+ldi7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6r50v+7rm7@eGroups.com>

Tabouli wrote:

> > P.S. Ahh, Dicentra, I see you share my irritation with what I call
> the "Unwashed Masses factor"... if it's popular it must be bad!  
Let's
> go spray graffiti on their ivory tower some time... (glances
> thoughtfully at Elkins, a known graffiti artist on the main list...)

Dicentra wrote:
 
> No, no. It's not BAD, it's Beneath Us. 

There are exceptions, however.  Lit crit people drool over Madonna, 
who's about as Beloved by the Unwashed Masses as one can get.  Of 
course, they don't talk about her music per se, but about the 
Cultural Phenomenon, the Gender Issues, etc., raised by her, uh, 
oeuvre, which IMNSHO are as boring and predictable as her (so-called) 
lyrics and (ibid) singing.

Amy
who wants to know what kind of sicko killed all those elephants just 
to make a tower




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu Mar 14 22:49:04 2002
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:49:04 -0000
Subject: Cultural clarifications
In-Reply-To: <a6mmge+ne95@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6r9d0+7ba4@eGroups.com>

Dicentra spectabilis alba, the Dutchman's Breeches, wrote: 

> I haven't been in contact with the lit crit world since HP became 
> big, but I'm fairly sure it is not held in high regard for the 
> following reasons:
> 
(entertaining rant snipped)

My original cultural differences post concerned people who I 
dubbed 'humanities types' and 'scientific types', both of whom are to 
be found in HPFGU.

The snooty critics described by Dicentra (and, I now realise, alluded 
to by Rita) may be a special case of the humanities type - but we 
don't seem to have them here.

The HPFGU humanities people, represented (IMO) by Heidi, Pippin, 
Elkins, Amy et al are decent common-sense people who are not in 
thrall to any grand theories or analytical techniques.  I just think 
that they don't read fiction in exactly the same way that I (as a 
person trained in scientific modes of thought) do.

Kimberly asked:

>So what I'd like to know is, how exactly do you know on which side 
of this particular fence you belong?

I feel responsible, having raised this whole topic.

1) You don't have to belong to either side - I really don't believe 
this is something hard wired into our brains.  There are many ways of 
looking at things and reading fiction.  I enjoy mine, but I like to 
learn new ways - hence the pleasure of HPFGU.  You don't have to 
accept one and reject the other.

2) The distinction between scientific and humanities cultures is of 
course not my invention.  I'm a bit hazy as to the details but it was 
brought to public consciousness round about 1960 by CP Snow in an 
essay (I think) entitled The Two Cultures.  I didn't mention all that 
before because I was trying to make sense of my experience as I saw 
it.

3) I don't know how you tell where your own background is, if you are 
not comfortable in it.  When I was a child I loved fiction (still 
do), but I also enjoyed, and still do, factual books.  At the age of 
fifteen I would get chemistry textbooks from the library and read 
them for pleasure.  When reading fiction my concern was with what 
happened, not what the characters were like or what the story told me 
about humanity or freedom or love or anything like that.  OTOH, part 
of the enjoyment of science fiction for me was the attempt to follow 
up an idea.  For example time travel, or Asimov's Laws of Robotics 
and psychohistory.  It was only later, e.g. with Ursula le Guin's 
Dispossessed that the human side began to interest me more.  Reading 
Jane Austen, where you get tiny body-language or hesitation clues to 
the inner life of the characters was a revelation to me later still.

In Harry Potter, is it the imaginary world or the way the people may 
develop that grabs you?  If the answer is 'both', then just enjoy 
it.  If it's only one of those things, or soemthing else, still enjoy 
it but consider that there might be more to be had out of it (and 
other literature).

David




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 15 03:39:26 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 03:39:26 -0000
Subject: mathematical anagrams
In-Reply-To: <a6etqq+1rqa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6rqde+msgl@eGroups.com>

Catlady wrote:
 
> Martin Gardner, who used to write the Mathematical Recreations 
column 
> in Scientific American

Actually, it was called Mathematical Games.  I bring this up not to 
nitpick, but to highlight the lovely fact that when Douglas Hofstadter 
took it over for a period, he anagrammed it to come up with a terrific 
new title, Metamagical Themas.  The Metamagical Themas columns are 
collected in a book by the same name, which I highly recommend.

Amy
humanities type turned traitor--just spent the last 48 hours immersed 
in Galileo's Commandment




From catlady at wicca.net  Fri Mar 15 06:04:56 2002
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 06:04:56 -0000
Subject: Obvious / Birds / Clothes / Lit Crit / Chamberpot Room /
Message-ID: <a6s2u8+dc0a@eGroups.com>

Poor Mecki being tortured by evil in-laws. *Sympathy* to all those 
stuck with evil relatives. **I** am lucky, as my in-laws live on the 
other side of a mountain range and I don't interact with them, and 
both my parents are dead. (I would say "Good riddance" but too many 
readers would be shocked.) My only sibling is not a bad person but 
his and my interaction consists of e-mailing birthday greetings to 
each other.

Poor Storm, bereaved of new bird.

Amy Z wrote:

> (it is obvious that McGonagall loves Quidditch even though there is
> no sentence saying "McGonagall loved Quidditch"), 

Actually, it is NOT obvious to me that McGonagall loves Quidditch. It 
IS obvious to me that she feel extremely competitive and House-loyal 
ABOUT Quidditch, but not that she actually cares about the GAME. I 
imagine that in her student days, she went only to matches in which 
her own House was playing.

Catherine in Albion wrote:

> Ravens are great. Smart and generally easy to feed. 

Maybe you could help me speculate, if the Trio became Animagi (even 
tho' JKR said in an interview that Harry won't) and their animal 
forms were all birds, what kind of birds would they be? I thought 
Harry might be a raven because he's a good flyer with black hair, in 
which case maybe Hermione would be an owl... 
and then I thought Hermione might be a raven because she's so smart 
and then what would Harry be?
and I wondered if making Ron be a red-headed woodpecker would be 
socially acceptable...

Saitaina wrote:

> I spent, 344.00$ on new clothes thinking that they would not lie 
> when they said a 48 is the same as a 28 (I actually wear a 26 but
> bigger is better in some cases) so imagine my surprise when I 
> opened the package today and...nothing fit. 

Send them back. I send a lot of mail-order stuff back.

Clothes that are made by ill-paid, ill-supervised piece-workers have 
very inconsistent sizing: two size 26s of the same garment will be 
different from each other. Once a friend explained one reason to me: 
because they are paid according to how many finished garments they 
turn in, they want to cut more pieces out of the same amount of 
cloth, so they crumple up the pattern pieces and spread them out 
again, but a little bit smaller at the random spots that were most 
crumpled. Being smaller makes it possible to cut more from the same 
fabric. Being smaller in random places means that if one dress is too 
small in the bosom, its twin next to it on the rack might be large 
enough in the bosom. But with my beloved mail-order (I HATE leaving 
the house to go shopping), you don't get to choose which of the twins 
is yours.

Joanne0012 wrote:

> Seriously, anybody who wants clothes that they like and that fit
> should learn to sew.

The trouble is I **HATE** sewing. I sewed many clothes for myself in 
high school and college and my first job because I had very little 
choice, but my next job paid enough that I could afford to *buy* 
clothes, and I prefer the smaller suffering of wearing clothes that 
don't fit to the larger suffering of spending time sewing. Yuck.

I don't know why I hate sewing when I love crocheting and like 
knitting.

Dicentra wrote:

> The one that stuck in my craw was how Freudians would find Freudian
> imagery in pre-Freudian works (like Don Quixote). Or how Marxist
> saw all texts as definitive commentary on who's kicking whom. 

I love your rant. I always hated English classes all through school. 
The lit crit people do a great deal of nonsense. HOWEVER, once in a 
very long while the Freudian imagery IS relevant, and I would expect 
it to be MORE relevant to pre-Freudian works, whose authors had not 
been tipped off.

AMY Z wants to know what kind of sicko killed all those elephants
just to make a tower

It wasn't ALL those elephants, it was one tusk and a good Engorgement 
Charm.

Alex wrote:

> > Dave ... "Question for US (well all non-British) members: do you
> > use the expression 'take the piss' to mean to mock, or wind up, 
> > usually good-naturedly?"
> They don't. Linguistically speaking there is no direct equivalent
> in US colloquial English for 'taking the piss' (after Bryson, 
> 'Notes From A Small Island (1994) or possibly 'Mother Tongue' 199?))
> - whereas it's such a fundamental  part of British life that we
> simply don't notice it. This does, of course, mean Brits abroad 
> frequently end up red-faced and having to frantically apologise for
> a good-natured joke that was taken the wrong way. You may recognise
> the voice of experience there ::winks::

I've been a COBOL programmer since before there were PCs, so I've 
worked with enough British expats (an Aussie pgmmer who stopped over 
at Lee's house to buy winter clothes on his way to a contract in 
Holland said "The British are the software mercenaries of the world") 
that, even tho' I know that 'in hospital' and 'on holiday' are not 
the normal USA usages and 'garridge' is not the normal USA 
pronunciation, I didn't remember whether normal USAns understand when 
someone says "I was just taking the piss". I was surprised that so 
many listees piped up that they didn't. Okay, Alex, correct me if I'm 
wrong, but 'taking the piss' is short for 'taking the piss out of 
so-and-so' and in USA English would probably be phrased as 'pulling 
so-and-so's leg"?

Dave, even tho' I've heard the phrase, it still doesn't seem to me 
that the phrase of 'full bladder' functioned as a clue that the 
anecdote was a put-on. 

                
               




From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 06:17:04 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 06:17:04 -0000
Subject: Another missed joke
In-Reply-To: <a6qbm9+6193@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6s3l0+c2d0@eGroups.com>

David writes:

<<
It's another of those HP jokes I hadn't quite grasped
until now. When Dumbledore tells Karkaroff about the
chamber pot room, Harry thinks he is joking, to Percy's
disapproval. What I only just noticed for the first time
is that Dumbledore's comment about a full bladder is a
signal that it *is* a joke. He is saying, for those with
ears to hear, that he is taking the piss.
>>

Mmmm...never heard that one. I don't think it matters,
actually. Dumbledore's comment about having a full
bladder is suitably snarky without having a double
meaning. You might be right, of course, but I don't
think it was intentionally written that way - it's a
long way to stretch for a pun.

--Anna




From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 06:24:49 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 06:24:49 -0000
Subject: Spell language?
Message-ID: <a6s43h+47b2@eGroups.com>

This is random speculation, so I'm posting it here.
It is, however, Potterrific!

What I was wondering is, do you suppose that all spells
all over the world are Latin? Or are little Japanese
witches shouting "Ue!" at their broomsticks when they
want to ride?

In a post that no one read on the main list, I
expressed my skepticism that there should be only one
wizard currency. Although I think the same barriers
apply to language, it seems like it would be more
important to have a single spell language.

Thoughts?


--Anna (trying very hard not to spell "skeptic" with a
"c" after reading a hundred pages of GoF)(also trying
to be coherent and failing)




From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 06:37:03 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 06:37:03 -0000
Subject: Lit Crit
In-Reply-To: <a6s2u8+dc0a@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6s4qf+rnud@eGroups.com>

Catlady writes:

<<
I always hated English classes all through school. The
lit crit people do a great deal of nonsense. HOWEVER,
once in a very long while the Freudian imagery IS
relevant, and I would expect it to be MORE relevant to
pre-Freudian works, whose authors had not been tipped off.
>>

Gee, I love English class. It's one of the few subjects
where classes enhanced my interest in the subject rather
than destroying it. (I guess I should note at this point
that I'm an undergrad freshman right now, so I'm mostly
talking about high school.)

Naturally, there's a certain amount of blue-skying that
goes on with literary interpretation. The argument about
pre- and post-Freudian works being more or less subject
to that interpretation begs the question: if the author
didn't put it there, is it there? I myself agree - and
Freud would concur - that authors may include themes and
symbolism in their works unconsciously and
unintentionally. I somehow can't see an author saying to
himself, "Now let's see, I need to develop the religious
allegory without diminishing the abandonment theme...."

--Anna




From boggles at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 15 09:42:29 2002
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 03:42:29 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Cultural clarifications/Lit crit
In-Reply-To: <a6r9d0+7ba4@eGroups.com>
References: <a6r9d0+7ba4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <f05010400b8b77133df29@[199.174.15.39]>

At 10:49 PM +0000 3/14/02, davewitley wrote:
>
>1) You don't have to belong to either side -

I belong to both.  (Being a math/English/linguistics person will do 
that to you.)

>2) The distinction between scientific and humanities cultures is of
>course not my invention.  I'm a bit hazy as to the details but it was
>brought to public consciousness round about 1960 by CP Snow in an
>essay (I think) entitled The Two Cultures.  I didn't mention all that
>before because I was trying to make sense of my experience as I saw
>it.

I remember back in high school (yes, the governor's school) the 
English class next to ours had a guest lecturer come in and talk to 
them about that essay, after which various students wrote position 
papers about whichever of the two cultures they identified with. 
Being a math and science aademy, most people picked the scientist. 
The papers were then posted in the hallways for everyone to read.  As 
far as I could tell, the main argument between the two cultures 
wasn't so much the difference in philosophy, as it was that each side 
seemed convinced that the other side was getting laid more, although 
no one put it quite that bluntly.

I was merely confused that people thought the two styles were 
incompatible, as I commonly merged the two in a single project.  :)



At 6:37 AM +0000 3/15/02, saintbacchus wrote:
>I somehow can't see an author saying to
>himself, "Now let's see, I need to develop the religious
>allegory without diminishing the abandonment theme...."

Actually, I strongly suspect Milton did this all the time.  He may be 
a special case, though.

-- 
  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles at earthlink.net
=== Personal Growth Geek Code v0.4 ===
GG++ !T A-- M++s--- g+ B- C- P++++ a- b- h+ her++ E+ N n++ i f+
c++ S%++++&&># D R++ xc++ xm+ xi+ yd++ ys++(-) rt+ ro+ rp++++ rjk<+
ow+++ ofn+ oft++ op++ esk-- ey+ ek+++ pl++ pf++ pe++ U!



From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Fri Mar 15 10:12:34 2002
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:12:34 -0000
Subject: Jennings at School to the silver screen?
Message-ID: <a6shei+9su6@eGroups.com>

A Norwegian online enwssource today mentioned that plans are in 
existance to make a film or TV-series out of the Jennings at School 
series.  The source for the story is an interview with 90 year old 
author Anthony Buckeridge, printed in The Guardian.  No date is 
given, but I assume it is a recent interview.  Any readers of The 
Guardian who have seen this interview?

Apparently the books are to be reprinted in the USA as well.

Best regards
Christian Stub?




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri Mar 15 11:46:29 2002
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:46:29 -0000
Subject: Jennings at School to the silver screen?
In-Reply-To: <a6shei+9su6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6smul+6tv6@eGroups.com>

Christian wrote:
> A Norwegian online enwssource today mentioned that plans are in 
> existance to make a film or TV-series out of the Jennings at School 
> series.  The source for the story is an interview with 90 year old 
> author Anthony Buckeridge, printed in The Guardian.  No date is 
> given, but I assume it is a recent interview.  Any readers of The 
> Guardian who have seen this interview?

No, but I have now:
www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4374110,00.html

I didn't realise he was still alive.  In some ways Harry Potter 
reminds me more of Jennings than any other books - though Jennings 
never got any older.

David





From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 15 11:59:00 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:59:00 -0000
Subject: McGonagall & Quidditch (was Obvious)
In-Reply-To: <a6s2u8+dc0a@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6snm5+6ppf@eGroups.com>

> Amy Z wrote:
> 
> > (it is obvious that McGonagall loves Quidditch even though there 
is
> > no sentence saying "McGonagall loved Quidditch"), 

Rita wrote:
 
> Actually, it is NOT obvious to me that McGonagall loves Quidditch. 
It 
> IS obvious to me that she feel extremely competitive and House-loyal 
> ABOUT Quidditch, but not that she actually cares about the GAME. I 
> imagine that in her student days, she went only to matches in which 
> her own House was playing.

You know, ever since I typed the above I've been thinking the same 
thing.

Amy Z
dangerously on-topic




From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Fri Mar 15 14:05:08 2002
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (cindysphynx)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:05:08 -0000
Subject: Unwashed masses factor
In-Reply-To: <a6r50v+7rm7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6sv2k+vagb@eGroups.com>

> Tabouli wrote:
> 
> > > P.S. Ahh, Dicentra, I see you share my irritation with what I 
call
> > the "Unwashed Masses factor"... if it's popular it must be bad!  
> Let's
> > go spray graffiti on their ivory tower some time... (glances
> > thoughtfully at Elkins, a known graffiti artist on the main 
list...)
> 
> Dicentra wrote:
>  
> > No, no. It's not BAD, it's Beneath Us. 
> 

Ooh, can I audition for the yet-to-be-named organization of people 
who find popular culture Beneath Them?  Please?  Pretty please.

My credentials are thus:

I have never watched "Ali McBeal."
I don't watch "The West Wing" because the editing is too fast-paced.
I sneer at the HP movie in favor of the Lord of the Rings movie.
I *love* to eat raw fish.

Am I in?  Or am I just old?

Cindy (who probably loses points for shopping at Target, but who 
wears dark glasses so no one will recognize her)




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Fri Mar 15 14:23:57 2002
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:23:57 +1100
Subject: The Great Unwashed, Lila (Robert Pirsig)
Message-ID: <008901c1cc2d$2196a540$3531c2cb@price>

Me:
> P.S. Ahh, Dicentra, I see you share my irritation with what I call
the "Unwashed Masses factor"... if it's popular it must be bad!  Let's
go spray graffiti on their ivory tower some time... (glances
thoughtfully at Elkins, a known graffiti artist on the main list...)

Dicentra:
> No, no. It's not BAD, it's Beneath Us. Unfortunately, they would
probably appreciate the graffiti because it's "anti-bourgeois" (read:
their parents would disapprove).  What would really get their goats
(not Aberforth's) would be a chorus of people saying the Emperor is
buck nekkid. That's their worst fear--being Found Out.<

Ah, but in my experience the ivories *do* consider popular culture to be bad, and *therefore* beneath them.  They have what they consider to be an objective scale on which the Quality of literature, music, etc. can be measured, based on what the People Who Know consider worthy.  If you press them, they will actually come up with *reasons* as to why Harry Potter, the Spice Girls, etc. are in fact objectively of Poor Quality, and, indeed, Not Art, usually along the lines of "it's all marketing, it's not Art, it's a commercial product designed to generate money from the Unwashed Masses Too Stupid to recognise Troo Art, unlike us".

I've noticed that the Unwashed Masses syndrome is more common among critics (art critics, literary critics) and classical performing artists (e.g. classical musicians) than it is among what could loosely be termed "creative" artists, who are actually painting the paintings, and writing their own music and literature.  Which, once I thought about it, makes sense: after all, if your life is about playing classical music which was written centuries ago, what's the point if you're dealing with people who don't know the difference between one interpretation of Bach and another?  The whole point of the exercise is to interpret Bach in a highly skilled, expressive way which compares with or "exceeds" previous interpretations, and the only people who are going to be able to judge this are a limited elite.  If they don't believe there's any value in doing this, their whole career is without value.  Hence the "Unwashed Masses", who would rather turn on a commercial radio station and couldn't tell Bach from Debussy *have* to be dismissed as of no consequence.

(Tabouli glances warily about for the avenging fury of classical performing artists on the list).  Mind you, I've tried to argue this position with a couple of classical musicians of my acquaintance, and they were livid.  Performing Bach *is* a creative process!  Without the performer, Bach is just black squiggles on a page!  The performer creates the music, brings it to life!  Yes, I said, but that's not the same as composing your *own* music in terms of creativity, is it?  That's a completely different thing! they screech (I learned classical piano for 12 years and know as much music theory as most of them, but they're inclined to assume I'm an ignorant philistine when I spout such blasphemy).

Then there's the diehard indie music types, who believe that anyone who listens to "mainstream" music is clearly brain-dead and boring.  It's quite disturbing when you're sitting at a table with such types and they're talking to you as *in-group member*; you are capable of intelligent conversation, and therefore of *course* must like indie music, like them, and they air their scathing opinions of people who like the music you *actually* like.

Ha, that reminds me - has anyone read Robert Pirsig's "Lila"?  (sequel to "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance").  A lot of that book made me squirm, but it did have a discussion of this very issue in it from the ivory point of view.  IIRC, I think Lila (whom he depicts with such condescension I cringe) is admiring some glossy holiday brochure with a cruise ship, and he is speculating about why this "beauty" is of utterly no value and why Lila is such an Unwashed Mass as to admire it.  Something about it not having anything new to add to the world and give it Quality, I think.

Tabouli
(who has actually come to like and respect Madonna... anyone who can stay at the top of the fickly music industry that long has to have something)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Fri Mar 15 15:21:54 2002
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 02:21:54 +1100
Subject: The Beat of the Elite
Message-ID: <00b801c1cc35$2424a980$3531c2cb@price>

Cindy:
> Ooh, can I audition for the yet-to-be-named organization of people 
who find popular culture Beneath Them? Please? Pretty please.<

(Tabouli hands Cindy a script and sits back to watch, tapping her teeth menacingly with a pencil, scritching ominously at her clipboard)

As for the name, hmmm.  Seeing I was using musical examples, let's go with one of those.  You see, it's not so much that the ivories march to the beat of a different drum, oh no.   They're very conformist in their own snobbish way, because they are, as Dicentra mentioned, constantly afraid of being Found Out, and therefore have to stay continually, nervously attuned to what they're supposed to hold in high regard, according to the people held in high regard.  They don't soil their beaters on the lowbrow drums of the Unwashed Masses, they go off together to feel superior somewhere and hire their own:

P.R.I.V.A.T.E. D.R.U.M.M.E.R.

("Popularity Reflects Inferior Value" Argue The Elitists, Deprecatingly Rejecting Unwashed Masses' Market-Excreted Rubbish)

Tabouli
(Tina Turner's "Private Dancer" lodging worryingly in her head...)




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From keegan at mcn.org  Fri Mar 15 15:15:04 2002
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:15:04 -0800
Subject: Birds
In-Reply-To: <a6s2u8+dc0a@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020315065744.00a93670@mail.mcn.org>

At 06:04 AM 3/15/02 +0000, The catlady  wrote:
>Catherine in Albion wrote:
>
> > Ravens are great. Smart and generally easy to feed.
>
>Maybe you could help me speculate, if the Trio became Animagi (even
>tho' JKR said in an interview that Harry won't) and their animal
>forms were all birds, what kind of birds would they be? I thought
>Harry might be a raven because he's a good flyer with black hair,

Ravens also have a sense of humor and are way too smart at times.  Yeah.  I 
could see Harry with his unruly black hair as a raven.

>  in which case maybe Hermione would be an owl...

Owls aren't as smart.  Clever and intimidating though.  All of the corvus 
family are very clever critters.  Ravens, crows, jays, magpies...  Now, 
Hermione could be a magpie.  She's bossy and smart which parallels both 
magpies and jays.  A good English bird to use would be a rook such as those 
at the Tower.  Good symbolism there, as well.

>and I wondered if making Ron be a red-headed woodpecker would be
>socially acceptable...

Actually, Ron might make a good owl.  He's got a temper and is brave.  Owls 
aren't stupid but they tend to ignore what they've learned at times.  They 
don't have the check list food/notfood, threat/notthreat and probably 
mate/notmate that I've watched hawks go through.  His temperament could 
easily put him into the jay or magpie area, too.  Folks with outdoor cats 
have probably seen their pets get dive bombed by jays or magpies. (Pauses 
while the image of a magpie on a broomstick, dressed in Quiddich robes 
flits by...)

I've always thought that Draco would make a good falcon with his imperious 
attitude and hyper ways.

>I've been a COBOL programmer since before there were PCs, so I've
>worked with enough British expats (an Aussie pgmmer who stopped over
>at Lee's house to buy winter clothes on his way to a contract in
>Holland said "The British are the software mercenaries of the world")

*lol* Must be your warm climate.  In the SF area, the men from India are 
the software mercenaries - at least in the mainframe end of the 
universe.  Hmmm.  At least in the systems end.

Enjoy the weekend folks!  I know my email will trickle down to hardly a 
thing with Yahoo down.  Maybe this is the weekend I finally get my weeding 
done - except it's supposed to rain.  Maybe it's a sewing weekend instead.

Catherine in Albion, CA




From keegan at mcn.org  Fri Mar 15 15:24:37 2002
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:24:37 -0800
Subject: Pop culture
In-Reply-To: <a6sv2k+vagb@eGroups.com>
References: <a6r50v+7rm7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020315071621.00a99970@mail.mcn.org>

At 02:05 PM 3/15/02 +0000,Cindy wrote:
>Ooh, can I audition for the yet-to-be-named organization of people
>who find popular culture Beneath Them?  Please?  Pretty please.
>
>My credentials are thus:
>
>I have never watched "Ali McBeal."

I have seen about five minutes of this show, but only because it's been on 
when my tape of Buffy finished.  At least it has strong women but it loses 
points because (at least for the bit I saw) all they do is moan about not 
having men.

>I *love* to eat raw fish.

Yeah!  I live on the California coast and there is not a single sushi bar 
until you hit Santa Rosa, a place where I find the concept of sushi rather 
suspect.  I'll drive another hour and go to Oakland.

>Am I in?  Or am I just old?

Old, shmold - like what you like.  Raw fish is good, watching the stuff you 
enjoy is good, having any kind of personal tastes and ideas is 
brilliant.  I always wonder at the folks who, when they turn on their radio 
and a cassette or CD starts to play, look embarrassed and start apologizing 
for their taste in music.  Go with what you like.  You're the one who lives 
with it.

>Cindy (who probably loses points for shopping at Target, but who
>wears dark glasses so no one will recognize her)

*sniff* What's wrong with Target?  They have jeans that are long enough in 
different rises and are cheap!

The only thing pop culture is really good for is getting all of the jokes 
on "The Simpsons".

More coffee!

Catherine in California



From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 15 15:44:43 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:44:43 -0000
Subject: Pop culture
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20020315071621.00a99970@mail.mcn.org>
Message-ID: <a6t4tb+d1vt@eGroups.com>

Cindy wrote:

> >Ooh, can I audition for the yet-to-be-named organization of people
> >who find popular culture Beneath Them?  Please?  Pretty please.

We both blew it when we got hooked on HP, Cindy, sorry.  I guess maybe 
I blew it a few years earlier when I got into Elvis.  I do not have 
big hair, though--yet.

Catherine of CA wrote of Ally McBeal (which I've never seen either):

> At least it has strong women but it loses 
> points because (at least for the bit I saw) all they do is moan 
about not 
> having men.

Oh yikes, the ultimate patriarchal message.  Real Men Don't Like 
Strong Women.  It's just like the old stereotype of the smart girl who 
doesn't land a man 'til she sheds the glasses (you don't need to see, 
dear, as long as you're being seen), puts on a party dress, and learns 
to giggle.  Well, I'm here to say it's all a vicious lie!  Real men 
aren't threatened by strong, smart women!  Today's man values the same 
things in a woman as he does in his male companions:  friendship, 
intelligent conversation, self-confidence . . . Isn't that right, 
honey?  <looks around suddenly, realizing she hasn't seen her husband 
for a while>

Amy




From keegan at mcn.org  Fri Mar 15 15:50:02 2002
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:50:02 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Pop culture
In-Reply-To: <a6t4tb+d1vt@eGroups.com>
References: <4.2.0.58.20020315071621.00a99970@mail.mcn.org>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020315074654.00a48b20@mail.mcn.org>

At 03:44 PM 3/15/02 +0000, Amy wrote:

>Oh yikes, the ultimate patriarchal message.  Real Men Don't Like
>Strong Women.  It's just like the old stereotype of the smart girl who
>doesn't land a man 'til she sheds the glasses (you don't need to see,
>dear, as long as you're being seen), puts on a party dress, and learns
>to giggle.

Here's a question for those guys lurking out there (peers around, trying to 
see through the electronic fog).

So, we women know what the stereotype is for us, what is it for you?  If DH 
was awake, I'd ask him but he's still happily asleep.  Besides, I'd hear 
the redneck variation on the theme.  C'mon, guys, what's the mental image 
of the "ideal" guy that you live under.

Catherine who still needs a second cup of coffee.  (Way too much email and 
I'm three days behind on the main list....)



From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 15 15:54:46 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:54:46 -0000
Subject: Cultural clarifications/Lit crit
In-Reply-To: <f05010400b8b77133df29@[199.174.15.39]>
Message-ID: <a6t5g6+f6a4@eGroups.com>

Boggles wrote:

>As 
> far as I could tell, the main argument between the two cultures 
> wasn't so much the difference in philosophy, as it was that each 
side 
> seemed convinced that the other side was getting laid more, although 
> no one put it quite that bluntly.

ROTFL!
 
> I was merely confused that people thought the two styles were 
> incompatible, as I commonly merged the two in a single project.  

So, inquiring minds want to know:  does this double your pleasure?  
(note plentiful pop culture references)

Saintbacchus wrote:

> >I somehow can't see an author saying to
> >himself, "Now let's see, I need to develop the religious
> >allegory without diminishing the abandonment theme...."

People might not do it exactly like that (I wouldn't know about 
Milton), but speaking only for myself as an artist, not a writer, I do 
think about the different themes and images and metaphors that are at 
play, and say things to myself like "but if I change that from green 
to blue I'll lose the implication of spring growth," to give a 
simplistic example.  Some of it is much more gut-level, but some is 
definitely a matter of thinking hard about the implications of an 
image, just as I would if I were writing about the piece for an art 
history class.  Chalk me up as one of those who loved English because 
I got more out of the literature as a result of it, even if the 
theories did occasionally overstretch.

Amy




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 21:41:33 2002
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:41:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: William gave us a Scare!
Message-ID: <20020315214133.71569.qmail@web13708.mail.yahoo.com>

 
Just to let everyone know, William gave us a scare on Thursday! Not wanting to be alone and left out on a nice warm day at school, he wanted to play basketball with the group. As you know, William has a heart condition and will be having a heart catherization on April 17th. Well, he over did it with the running, dribbling,  and more running! He had a very bad coughing spell which lend to him vomiting and it hit the class bully, Hector! Not that I would want vomiting on me or anybody, but the kid really harasses the other kids. William laughs about it now! Well, the nurse had to call 911 and William was rushed over to Children?s Hospital. By the time I got there, he had the Doctors and Nurses laughing! He has to take things easy and in a much slower stride until they get the catherization over and decide if and when he needs surgery. Otherwise, he is feeling good and will not have to sit on the sidelines at gym, I told the nurse to get with whoever it is to change it so he go to the Library or computer room or some other resource class. The kids all look at William a little differently after what happened, maybe they will show him more understanding as to where he is coming from and why he is the way he is! William has a lot to offer as far as friendship but they have to understand that he is immature and still loves to use his imagination and build things and play! Key word is play as in childhood and enjoying it. This weekend we will probably build something out of paper and tons of tape for St. Patrick?s Day or just go ahead and build planes! Everybody have a wonderful weekend and Happy St. Patrick?s Day! To all of those who celebrate it!

Schnoogles, Love, and Hugs,

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and her Very Merry Band of Muggles 100% to include a much relieved group of Muggles that William is William and being himself!



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 15 22:02:37 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:02:37 -0000
Subject: William gave us a Scare!
In-Reply-To: <20020315214133.71569.qmail@web13708.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a6tr1t+m3la@eGroups.com>

Wanda, I'm so glad your William is okay and in good spirits (and that 
he managed to hit Hector).  What a super kid.  Are you *sure* he's a 
Muggle?

Hugs,
Amy




From john at walton.vu  Fri Mar 15 22:06:40 2002
From: john at walton.vu (John Walton)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:06:40 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: William gave us a Scare!
In-Reply-To: <a6tr1t+m3la@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B8B820F0.C9C4%john@walton.vu>

What good news that one of our favorite Revere Muggles is okay! And give
that boy a Chocolate Frog for hitting the bully. Go William!

--Relieved!John

____________________________________________

"It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our
abilities." --Albus Dumbledore

John Walton || john at walton.vu
____________________________________________




From bonnie at niche-associates.com  Sat Mar 16 01:52:28 2002
From: bonnie at niche-associates.com (dicentra_spectabilis_alba)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:52:28 -0000
Subject: Freud and Quixote
In-Reply-To: <a6s2u8+dc0a@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6u8gs+bqkn@eGroups.com>

> Dicentra wrote:
> 
> > The one that stuck in my craw was how Freudians would find Freudian
> > imagery in pre-Freudian works (like Don Quixote). Or how Marxist
> > saw all texts as definitive commentary on who's kicking whom. 
> 
Dave comments: 
> I love your rant. I always hated English classes all through school. 
> The lit crit people do a great deal of nonsense. HOWEVER, once in a 
> very long while the Freudian imagery IS relevant, and I would expect 
> it to be MORE relevant to pre-Freudian works, whose authors had not 
> been tipped off.
> 
Dicentra responds:
This is assuming that Freudian imagery and Freud's theories on the
human psyche are actually true or universal or whatever.  Turns out
that contemporary psychologists don't rely on Original Freud for their
diagnoses.  He may have been the Father of Modern Psychology, but like
all modern disciplines, psychology has its roots in mystical,
mythical, and downright false premises. Such as astronomy and
astrology, chemistry and alchemy, medicine and witchdoctors (and I
know I just stepped on the toes of people who hold astrology and other
ancient practices in some regard; my apologies).

The reason it's invalid to diagnose Don Quixote from a Freudian
perspective is that Cervantes' beliefs about what makes people tick
came from a distinctively Renaissance-era model; his characters
therefore are based on those rules.  

The narrator of Don Quixote states that he read so many chivalric
novels that his brain dried up, robbing him of judgment. This was an
era when the dryness or moistness of a person's brain, or its warmth
or lack thereof, was what determined the malady.  Modern psychologists
sometimes try to diagnose Quixote, but because he's a fictional
character based on old assumptions about how the brain functions,
they're going to come up in error.  

Quixote's problem was that his brain was too dry. He couldn't judge
between reality and fiction, but in other ways he was remarkably
astute.  He doesn't hallucinate, he just misinterprets what he sees
(rather willfully, in fact). He doesn't have schizophrenia or any
other medically identifiable dementia because Cervantes controlled the
parameters of his malady to suit the needs of his story line.  And in
the end (if you've read that far), he finally comes to his senses and
renounces his chivalric ways without any Lithium interventions.

The problem is, Freud was making it up as he went along. He had no
one's shoulders to stand on, no previous research to ponder. It made
sense to him that anything that resembled a phallus should symbolize a
phallus in someone's dream, but that was his own imagination at work,
not a scientifically proven fact. Post-Freudian writers, like
Cervantes, base their characterizations on how THEY think the human
psyche works, not on how it actually works. If the author buys Freud,
then that's the shape the fictional universe will take.  Art never
mirrors reality--it just mirrors the artist.

Speaking of Quixote, I was thinking the other day that he is the first
representation of Fandom in Western literature. Previous to Cervantes'
time, there were no widely available works of art for people to obsess
over.  The chivalric novel had people sitting at their firesides,
listening to someone read, night after night. They couldn't get enough
of it.  If Quixote were real and alive today, in fact, he'd probably
be writing posts on this very board.

--Dicentra, pleased that her degree in Spanish Lit has come in handy
for once 




From macloudt at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 16 08:51:25 2002
From: macloudt at hotmail.com (Mary Jennings)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:51:25 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] William gave us a Scare!
Message-ID: <F224ujaQwrpmW8erKQC0001eaa3@hotmail.com>

Wanda, I'm glad to hear that William is all right.  Give your Muggle hug 
from us.  And good for you for letting William be, well, just William.  If 
he's happy and you're happy, that's all that matters.

Off to prepare for a joint birthday party tomorrow.  Practically had to 
mortgage the house to pay for the entertainer...aak!!

Cheers!

Mary Ann
(doing something completely against her nature...housework)

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com




From meboriqua at aol.com  Sun Mar 17 15:11:03 2002
From: meboriqua at aol.com (jenny_ravenclaw)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:11:03 -0000
Subject: Rejecting Pop Culture
Message-ID: <a72bm7+lo50@eGroups.com>

Cindy mentioned some of the things that help her feel proud in her 
rejection of pop culture.  Here are some of mine:
*I don't watch "Friends", "Ally McBeal", "The West Wing" or "ER"
*I can't stand John Grisham novels
*I think Jennifer Lopez has zero musical talent (I'm not impressed 
with her butt, either)

On the other hand, there are some things that wind up quite popular 
and are still of good quality, IMO:
*Alicia Keyes
*Buffy until this year
*Harry Potter

I'm not embarrassed to admit that I find some Brittney Spears tunes 
catchy.  It's true: we like what we like.  I am openly proud of the 
collection of disco music I have and I have yet to stump Heidi with 
any song from the early eighties.  One of the best things pop culture 
does is give us a time and place for memories, as well as the bizarre 
ability to recall lyrics to songs you haven't heard in ten years and 
never liked anyway.

--jenny from ravenclaw, mourning the loss of her radio station, Jammin 
105.1 - gone without a trace on Wednesday 
**********************************************************




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 17 16:35:57 2002
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catorman)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:35:57 -0000
Subject: William gave us a Scare!
In-Reply-To: <20020315214133.71569.qmail@web13708.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a72gld+nidu@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Wanda Mallett <witchwanda2002 at y...> 
wrote:
>  
> Just to let everyone know, William gave us a scare on Thursday! 

Firstly, I'm glad he's OK, Wanda, and I hope everything goes well in 
April.  

Secondly - congratulate him from me on throwing up over the school 
bully.  Serves him right!  I hope William will get treated with a bit 
more respect now (although he sounds as though he's doing great 
anyway - a sense of humour and a good imagination are great assets at 
the best of times).

Catherine




From boggles at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 16 05:34:56 2002
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:34:56 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Cultural clarifications/Lit crit
In-Reply-To: <a6t5g6+f6a4@eGroups.com>
References: <a6t5g6+f6a4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <p05010401b8b889416fe0@[66.32.51.29]>

At 3:54 PM +0000 3/15/02, lupinesque wrote:
>Boggles wrote:
>
>  > I was merely confused that people thought the two styles were
>>  incompatible, as I commonly merged the two in a single project. 
>
>So, inquiring minds want to know:  does this double your pleasure?

Actually, it's rather like the old joke about being bisexual; it 
merely gives one double the chances to be rejected on a given 
Saturday night . . .  ;)

>(note plentiful pop culture references)

How drolly prole of you!  :)

>Some of it is much more gut-level, but some is
>definitely a matter of thinking hard about the implications of an
>image, just as I would if I were writing about the piece for an art
>history class.

I certainly do this in my own prose writing, but I am perfectly well 
aware that I overintellectualize everything . . .

-- 
  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles at earthlink.net
=== Personal Growth Geek Code v0.4 ===
GG++ !T A-- M++s--- g+ B- C- P++++ a- b- h+ her++ E+ N n++ i f+
c++ S%++++&&># D R++ xc++ xm+ xi+ yd++ ys++(-) rt+ ro+ rp++++ rjk<+
ow+++ ofn+ oft++ op++ esk-- ey+ ek+++ pl++ pf++ pe++ U!



From nesbitaa at purdue.edu  Sun Mar 17 21:25:06 2002
From: nesbitaa at purdue.edu (oboakk)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:25:06 -0000
Subject: Rejecting Pop Culture
In-Reply-To: <a72bm7+lo50@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a731jj+qq3n@eGroups.com>

"jenny_ravenclaw" wrote:
> Cindy mentioned some of the things that help her feel proud in her 
> rejection of pop culture.  Here are some of mine:
> *I don't watch "Friends", "Ally McBeal", "The West Wing" or "ER"
> *I can't stand John Grisham novels
> *I think Jennifer Lopez has zero musical talent (I'm not impressed 
> with her butt, either)
> 

I was heartbroken to hear that someone would be proud of NOT 
watching 'ER'!!  I am proud that I reject pop culture in some ways 
(like not owning anything from Abercrombie & Fitch), but not 
watch 'ER'!!  As with Harry Potter, if I don't get enough ER, I 
suffer withdrawl symptoms.  I cried when Dr. Dave got fired!  I get 
misty when I see the _previews_ for Dr. Greene's last days!  
Although, I didn't really get into ER into I wanted to be a nurse, so 
that may be part of why I like it.  It's never been a pop culture 
thing to me, I guess, but more of a personal bonding.

I must admit that the show's been going downhill lately, though.  But 
I will definitely keep watching as long as Maura Tierney is on, 
because she's a great actress and Abby Lockhart is my favorite 
character.  I loved her explanation last episode about why she wanted 
to be a nurse and not a doctor, it's exactly what I've been trying to 
tell everyone who asks me why I don't want to go to medical school!  
It also helps that she has my name....

Abby, who has just revealed her _other_ obsession




From catlady at wicca.net  Mon Mar 18 04:49:16 2002
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 04:49:16 -0000
Subject: Okay, what happened to HPfGU's Announcements's list's website?
Message-ID: <a73rkc+ef4f@eGroups.com>

I typed: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Announcements/messages

Yahoo replied: OOPS there is no group named HPFGU-Announcements.




From catlady at wicca.net  Mon Mar 18 05:00:33 2002
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 05:00:33 -0000
Subject: OMG, Worse
Message-ID: <a73s9h+578t@eGroups.com>

Now it claims "There is no group called HPforGrownups"!




From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 18 05:19:23 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 05:19:23 -0000
Subject: OMG, Worse
In-Reply-To: <a73s9h+578t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a73tcr+rktj@eGroups.com>

Catlady writes:
> Now it claims "There is no group called HPforGrownups"!

I've been getting that for a couple of hours, too. The
archive group doesn't exist, either. Hopefully this is
just a residual glitch from whatever Yahoo was doing
this weekend....

--Anna




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 18 05:52:38 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 05:52:38 -0000
Subject: ADMIN: Don't panic!
Message-ID: <a73vb6+10tae@eGroups.com>

Yahoo! planned to do maintenance until later today (Monday).  If you 
don't have all your HP groups back yet, it is probably because they're 
putting them back piecemeal.  We will instruct you when to begin 
panicking.  <g>

Amy Z
Magical Mod Squad




From maryblue67 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 18 14:58:44 2002
From: maryblue67 at yahoo.com (Maria)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 06:58:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Freud and Quixote
In-Reply-To: <1016448649.504.22169.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020318145844.98776.qmail@web11103.mail.yahoo.com>



> Dicentra wrote:


Speaking of Quixote, I was thinking the other day that he is the
first
representation of Fandom in Western literature. Previous to
Cervantes'
time, there were no widely available works of art for people to
obsess
over.  The chivalric novel had people sitting at their firesides,
listening to someone read, night after night. They couldn't get
enough
of it.  If Quixote were real and alive today, in fact, he'd probably
be writing posts on this very board.


Wow, Dicentra, that was a wonderful review of Spanish literature... i
couldn't have explained it better (mainly, because i haven't touch a
literature textbook for like 9 years?? :) ). However, on this last
remark you made, i think i can add something finally (i never get a
chance to say much in this list of highly qualified HP experts).
There is another book i would say that had people obsessed with
before Don Quijote (if you don't mind, i'll use the spanish
spelling), and it is exactly the book that he was most obsessed with:
the best of all the chivalry books, called Tirant lo Blanch. This
book was written in catalan, by Joanot Martorell -from Valencia,
south of Catalonia -(mostly, completed by a friend after his death),
in the 1460s. It was soon translated to several languages, it was
that popular. It describes the adventures of the White Knight ( lo
Blanch) called Tirant. 

There is plenty of information on this online, even full texts, but i
warn you, it is long!! (as i well remember from my catalan literature
classes, lol), so i will not bore you with it any more. Just thought
i would add this little remark, being a proud speaker of such an
interesting language :)

Maria


=====
Maryblue
----------------------------------------------------------
"Gravitation cannot be held responsible for people falling
in love" - Eistein

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/



From j.balfour at lmu.ac.uk  Mon Mar 18 15:44:47 2002
From: j.balfour at lmu.ac.uk (booleanfox)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:44:47 -0000
Subject: Here we go again...
Message-ID: <a7521f+mtpj@eGroups.com>

Although there is much evidence on this list and elsewhere to dispute 
the 'mid-summer arrival' I couldn't help getting excited when I got 
this from Ananova today:

"Analysts are hoping Bloomsbury will announce a release date for the 
fifth book in the Harry Potter septet next Wednesday.

They've predicted a mid-summer arrival for the latest instalment of 
the schoolboy wizard's adventures."

Just exactly who these 'analysts' are is anybody's guess, but I for 
one have my fingers well and truly crossed - I desperately want to 
make a chart like Harry's counting down the days until he (and we) go 
back to Hogwarts...




From plumeski at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 18 15:54:46 2002
From: plumeski at yahoo.com (GulPlum)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:54:46 -0000
Subject: Jennings at School to the silver screen?
In-Reply-To: <a6smul+6tv6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a752k6+phup@eGroups.com>

"davewitley" <dfrankiswork at n...> wrote:

> I didn't realise he was still alive.  In some ways Harry Potter 
> reminds me more of Jennings than any other books - though Jennings 
> never got any older.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I've raised the issue in several 
online conversations, to replies of "Jennings who?". 

I've recently managed to persuade two HP readers of my acquaintance 
(nephew & godson) to get into Jennings, and they seem to be enjoying 
them. I was as addicted to his adventures when I was about 10 as kids 
nowadays appear to be addicted to HP. It's just a pity I only have 6 
of the books to share with these new fans (something way back when 
told me not to throw them out!) so the news that they're being 
republished will be gratefully received.

Oh, and it comes as no surprise to me that a Norwegian news source 
made this into a big story, as from stuff I've read online it appears 
that Norway was always Jennings' biggest market (my mind boggles as 
to why). I've also heard hints that there was a Norwegian TV series 
back in the 70s?

BTW for those who don't have a clue what we're talking about, see 
http://www.linbury-court.co.uk/ (which has just been redone and seems 
not to have half the material it had the last time I looked).




From plumeski at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 18 16:07:48 2002
From: plumeski at yahoo.com (GulPlum)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:07:48 -0000
Subject: Here we go again...
In-Reply-To: <a7521f+mtpj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a753ck+3jc5@eGroups.com>

"booleanfox" <j.balfour at l...> wrote:

> Just exactly who these 'analysts' are is anybody's guess, but I for 
> one have my fingers well and truly crossed - I desperately want to 
> make a chart like Harry's counting down the days until he (and we) 
go 
> back to Hogwarts...

These "analysts" are the usual folks working in the financial sector, 
who are pointing out that Bloomsbury will be publishing their 
accounts this week. As the HP series is Bloomsbury's current 
flagship "product", they're expecting some kind of mention. As far as 
I can tell, the rest is just hype and wishful thinking. It would 
indeed be foolish of Bloomsbury not to take the opportunity to 
announce a publication date (if they have one) for obvious resons. 

IOW, we just need to wait til Wednesday...




From moongirlk at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 18 17:05:03 2002
From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:05:03 -0000
Subject: Cultural clarifications/pop culture
In-Reply-To: <a6r9d0+7ba4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a756nv+dudb@eGroups.com>

David, feeling responsible for raising the topic, tried to help me 
with my science/humanities confusion, and in the end, in relation to 
HP, came to this conclusion:
 
> In Harry Potter, is it the imaginary world or the way the people 
may 
> develop that grabs you?  If the answer is 'both', then just enjoy 
> it.  If it's only one of those things, or soemthing else, still 
enjoy 
> it but consider that there might be more to be had out of it (and 
> other literature).
> 

The answer is definitely both, plus a few dozen other factors, I'm 
sure.  I guess my problem isn't so much that I picked the wrong one 
as it is that I am a fence-sitter, in this as well as many other 
aspects of my life.  I hate having to choose between one thing and 
another.  That was always my problem with those personality tests, 
too - they'd ask if I preferred X or Y and I'd want secret option C-
both.  But, like the guy I can't remember says, you can't have 
everything, where would you put it?

While I'm posting anyway: 

On the subject of the ivory tower, which then became "Pop culture, 
what is it good for?"  Here's my secret option C - pop culture makes 
a fantastic field of study for some academics.  I wonder if they're 
fence-sitters too - I bet it's dizzying sitting on a fence 
surrounding an ivory tower.

Seriously though, it's fascinating to me that what started with a 
criticism of the ivory tower crew who feel that anything with popular 
appeal can't have value morphed into a criticism of the pop culture-y 
stuff itself.  Interesting ambivalence.

I for one am all for pop culture.  It's such an interesting lens 
through which to view things.  It affects language and taste and 
attitudes and interpersonal relations...  Netspeak is a good example -
 in just a few short years tons of new words have been coined.  
That's as much a part of pop culture as what we see on TV or what boy 
band is hot this week.  Does preferring alternative, classic rock or 
any other kind of music to what's known as pop music save me from 
being a slave to pop culture?  Does preferring PBS or "cult" 
programming to must-see tv save anyone?  Having a TV or a radio or a 
computer or virtually any other communication with the world around 
us pretty much guarantees a certain entrenchment of pop culture in 
our lives, and a significant lack of pop-culture exposure would leave 
me pretty out-of-touch with my fellow USAmericans (I'm focusing on 
USAmerican pop culture because it's what I know) as well as missing 
out on all sorts of jokes, like for example in Back to the Future, 
where Fox's character asks for a Tab or a Pepsi Free in the diner.  A 
funny scene, but viewed without the framework of our popular culture 
to tell us about soft drinks of the 80s, it would have been as 
meaningless or confusing to us as it was to the man behind the 
counter.  

One phenomenon may be more firmly entrenched in the collective psyche 
than the next, but everything from Buffy to Gilligan to Friends to 
Star Trek to Masterpiece Theatre enters into the equation and while 
some of it is terribly embarrassing (I can't tell you how embarrassed 
I was when I learned that Married with Children was show in other 
countries), when you put it all together there's so much to draw from 
and it really does add texture to the world.  

kimberly
who likes Gilmore Girls in part because of all the interesting pop 
culture references, even if everyone does talk too much, too fast.




From bonnie at niche-associates.com  Mon Mar 18 17:58:29 2002
From: bonnie at niche-associates.com (dicentra_spectabilis_alba)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:58:29 -0000
Subject: Freud and Quixote
In-Reply-To: <20020318145844.98776.qmail@web11103.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a759s5+u90h@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Maria <maryblue67 at y...> wrote:
> 
> 
> > Dicentra wrote:
> 
> 
> Speaking of Quixote, I was thinking the other day that he is the
> first
> representation of Fandom in Western literature. Previous to
> Cervantes'
> time, there were no widely available works of art for people to
> obsess
> over.  The chivalric novel had people sitting at their firesides,
> listening to someone read, night after night. They couldn't get
> enough
> of it.  If Quixote were real and alive today, in fact, he'd probably
> be writing posts on this very board.
> 
> 
> Wow, Dicentra, that was a wonderful review of Spanish literature... i
> couldn't have explained it better (mainly, because i haven't touch a
> literature textbook for like 9 years?? :) ). However, on this last
> remark you made, i think i can add something finally (i never get a
> chance to say much in this list of highly qualified HP experts).
> There is another book i would say that had people obsessed with
> before Don Quijote (if you don't mind, i'll use the spanish
> spelling), and it is exactly the book that he was most obsessed with:
> the best of all the chivalry books, called Tirant lo Blanch. This
> book was written in catalan, by Joanot Martorell -from Valencia,
> south of Catalonia -(mostly, completed by a friend after his death),
> in the 1460s. It was soon translated to several languages, it was
> that popular. It describes the adventures of the White Knight ( lo
> Blanch) called Tirant.

Tirante el Blanco. Of course!  And don't forget the Orlando series and
all the rest (don't have El Quijote with me right now).  What I'm
saying is that Don Quijote the character is the first "Trekkie"-type
fan.  He got so into the chivalric novels he started to believe they
were real--histories, not stories. (Spanish uses the same word,
"historia,"  for history and story, which is significant.)  

And I went to Mass in Catalan in Barcelona once (Gothic quarter) and
it was frustrating because I felt like I was just on the verge of
understanding it--I got a few words here and there--but I could never
really get it.  I've also been to Valencia for paella and Lladro.
> 
Great country, Spain. And Catalonia is a really nice area. Orange
trees and stuff.

--Dicentra, who KNOWS Harry Potter is real, duh!






From bonnie at niche-associates.com  Mon Mar 18 18:14:09 2002
From: bonnie at niche-associates.com (dicentra_spectabilis_alba)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:14:09 -0000
Subject: Cultural clarifications/pop culture
In-Reply-To: <a756nv+dudb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a75aph+9gg2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "moongirlk" <moongirlk at y...> wrote:
> 
> On the subject of the ivory tower, which then became "Pop culture, 
> what is it good for?"  Here's my secret option C - pop culture makes 
> a fantastic field of study for some academics.  

When the ivory tower-types study pop culture, they don't do it from a
fandom perspective (they way we talk about HP) but from a detached,
anthropologial perspective, as if they were watching a colony of
mountain gorillas in Uganda.  I've heard some ivory-tower types admit
that they enjoy this or that pop phenomenon (music, TV, etc.) but it's
a guilty pleasure or a hip addendum to their core preferences, which
are generally elitist. You will find professors who share the
anti-ivory tower sentiment, but their colleagues don't accept their
field of study or their approach as equal to the elitist approach.
>  
Having a TV or a radio or a 
> computer or virtually any other communication with the world around 
> us pretty much guarantees a certain entrenchment of pop culture in 
> our lives, and a significant lack of pop-culture exposure would leave 
> me pretty out-of-touch with my fellow USAmericans.  

My cousins grew up without TV, and they really are clueless when it
comes to pop-culture references and the like--on the other hand,
they're immensely creative and they think of things that don't occur
to other people because they haven't had their minds shaped by the
"irresistable force" that is pop culture.  Part of their creativity
stems from their heritage (mom is a writer and pianist) but I remember
visiting them when I was young, and we played the coolest games.  They
really think outside the TV "box."

I, on the other hand, was raised on TV. Am I less creative? Dunno. 
But I sure don't operate on their wavelength.
  
--Dicentra, whose pop-culture knowledge helps her enjoy Mystery
Science Theater 3000, and figures that alone is worth any detriment





From bray.262 at osu.edu  Mon Mar 18 14:04:20 2002
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:04:20 EST5EDT
Subject: a great documentary
Message-ID: <144A1654F@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

I saw a great documentary last night.  It was called A 
Whisper to a Scream: The History of Irish Music.  It was 
excellent!  I had no idea Van Morrison was Irish!  And it 
was great to see footage of The Boomtown Rats when they 
were just starting off in the late 70's.  They were so 
young!  Of course...the U2 footage was awesome.  Not biased 
at all, ha ha.

If you get a chance to see this documentary, I highly 
recommend it. 

And the National Geographic special on finding the Afghan 
girl from the 1984 cover was awesome, too.


Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements


"Yes, I see your point, but as Dr. Rachel Bray said 
in her recently published paper 'Republican Themes in 
Beowulf,' Grendl truly is a respresentative of deep 
rooted hostility toward the kings attempt to centralize 
and control social issues."



From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Mon Mar 18 23:09:41 2002
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:09:41 -0000
Subject: Here we go again...
In-Reply-To: <a753ck+3jc5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a75s3l+pier@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "GulPlum" <plumeski at y...> wrote:
> Bloomsbury will be publishing their 
> accounts this week. As the HP series is Bloomsbury's current 
> flagship "product", they're expecting some kind of mention. As far as 
> I can tell, the rest is just hype and wishful thinking. It would 
> indeed be foolish of Bloomsbury not to take the opportunity to 
> announce a publication date (if they have one) for obvious resons. 
> 
> IOW, we just need to wait til Wednesday...

Unfortunately, a major hint has appeared in Bloomsbury's own site's FAQ abo=
ut 
the HP books, which reports the following:

"When will the fifth book be published?
We are not going to set a publication date for the fifth book until the boo=
k has 
been finished. In a perfect world the date would be?early autumn?2002, but =
we 
will wait until the book is written before making a decision. We will let y=
ou know 
more information as soon as we can."

That phrase "early autumn 2002" USED to say "July 2002" until rather recent=
ly. 
Sigh.


http://www.bloomsburymagazine.com/harrypotter/wizard/section/faq.asp?pag
eNo=15




From john at walton.vu  Mon Mar 18 21:32:59 2002
From: john at walton.vu (johnwaltonvu)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:32:59 -0000
Subject: ADMIN: HPforGrownups status report
Message-ID: <a75meb+m1sa@eGroups.com>



On Sunday, March 17, various HPforGrownups groups, including 
HPforGrownups itself, were hacked and deleted. 

HPforGrownups' Mods are working with Yahoo to have the groups restored, 
and expect everything to be up and running again by Wednesday. 

The Moderators, List Elves and members of HPforGrownups are shocked at 
the betrayal of trust by those responsible for the hacking. 

We're severely disappointed at how a very small group of people have 
managed to throw our friendly community into chaos. 

We, with help from Yahoo, are doing our utmost to track down those 
responsible and are working to get the lists back online. 

Until then, please use this OTChatter group at 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter for both off topic and on 
topic discussions.

Regards, 

The Moderators of HPforGrownups




From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Mon Mar 18 23:22:38 2002
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:22:38 -0000
Subject: Jennings at School to the silver screen?
In-Reply-To: <a752k6+phup@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a75sru+o0ug@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter, "GulPlum" wrote:
[snip]
> Oh, and it comes as no surprise to me that a Norwegian news
> source made this into a big story, as from stuff I've read
> online it appears that Norway was always Jennings' biggest
> market (my mind boggles as to why). I've also heard hints
> that there was a Norwegian TV series back in the 70s?

Not only (two, I think) TV-series, but also four full-length movies 
(black/white, from the 1960s), and countless numbers of radioplays.  
Jennings (or Stompa as he is called here - it is short for Stein 
Oscar Magel-Paus Andersen) is indeed very popular in Norway - the 
whole series was adapted and rewritten to Norwegian, rather than 
merely translated.  All the characters became stereotypes of their 
origins in different parts of Norway.  The setting, an oldfashioned 
boardingschool, is very different from typical school in Norway, and 
I think that contributed a lot to the popularity of the series.  The 
whole series was reisssued in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and, I think in year 
2000 or 2001.

Best regards
Christian Stub?
Who takes this opportunity to congratulate the moderators, and give 
his support in the present situation.




From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Tue Mar 19 00:16:50 2002
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (cindysphynx)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:16:50 -0000
Subject: Ian McClellan on SNL
Message-ID: <a7601i+dq7c@eGroups.com>

Did anyone catch Sir Ian on Saturday Night Live?  He was the host and 
he, uh, checked his dignity at the door.  He was a really good 
sport.  He was very, very good, and his timing was spot-on.  He was 
even very good at sneaking peaks at the cue cards.  I really enjoyed 
him, but I was shocked that there was no LOTR spoof.  

Keep an eye out for it in re-runs.

Cindy (who thinks Sir Ian is kinda cute, and she doesn't normally go 
for older men)




From lordzenya at aol.com  Tue Mar 19 01:35:39 2002
From: lordzenya at aol.com (lord_zenya)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 01:35:39 -0000
Subject: Email problem
Message-ID: <a764lb+a3v6@eGroups.com>

Hi,

Since yahoo groups went down I haven't been getting emails from any 
of my groups, is it just me, or is everyone else having this problem.

I am sorry this post was short, but I wanted to know, and I couldn't 
find anyone who has already asked.

Peace, Lord Zenya




From porphyria at mindspring.com  Tue Mar 19 03:06:03 2002
From: porphyria at mindspring.com (porphyria_ash)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 03:06:03 -0000
Subject: Ian McClellan on SNL
In-Reply-To: <a7601i+dq7c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a769ur+o9ji@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "cindysphynx" <cindysphynx at c...> wrote:
> Did anyone catch Sir Ian on Saturday Night Live?  He was the host 
and 
> he, uh, checked his dignity at the door.  He was a really good 
> sport.  He was very, very good, and his timing was spot-on.  

Wasn't he awesome! My husband and I nearly choked to death laughing. 
Of particular interest was his draggy imitation of Maggie Smith. She 
really does bug her eyes out in the way that he kept parodying. And 
his Yves Saint Laurent looked more like YSL than the real thing. He 
was in nearly every skit, too. 

It's amazing what SNL can do when they get a *real* actor. :-)

> Cindy (who thinks Sir Ian is kinda cute, and she doesn't normally 
go 
> for older men)

Yeah, I'm glad you said this 'cause I was really turned on by him in 
LOTR and I kind of freaked myself out. He's, um, 30 years older than 
me. Unhappily for me, of course, I'm not his type. ;-) (But I suppose 
that's good news for my husband.)

~~Porphyria




From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Mar 19 03:21:47 2002
From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 03:21:47 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Ian McClellan on SNL
References: <a769ur+o9ji@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001201c1cef5$3ac54240$5e0d86d9@monica>

Hey, there is nothing wrong with a thirty year age gap! The gap between me and Alan Rickman is approaching that and I certainly wouldn't kick him out of bed! (Chain him to it maybe ...)
I think with Ian McKellan it's partly the voice. He has a dreamy speaking voice (hmm, as does AR, I'm spotting a pattern here). I wish I could have seen this, ah well. And in LOTR he oozed charisma, something which in my book at any rate can turn any average joe into a god. I must admit I wasn't paying vast amounts of attention to him in LOTR, but then I was busy being captivated by a certain elf. Except for those moments when I was being reminded why I adore Sean Bean.

K
If I have children and subsequently grandchildren, I will keep my three-year-old granddaughter near me at all times. When the hero enters to kill me, I will ask him to first explain to her why it is necessary to kill her beloved grandpa. When the hero launches into an explanation of morality way over her head, that will be her cue to pull the lever and send him into the pit of crocodiles. After all, small children like crocodiles almost as much as Evil Overlords and it's important to spend quality time with the grandkids
http://minievil.eviloverlord.com/lists/dungeon_a.html
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: porphyria_ash 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 3:06 AM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Ian McClellan on SNL


  --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "cindysphynx" <cindysphynx at c...> wrote:

  > Cindy (who thinks Sir Ian is kinda cute, and she doesn't normally 
  go 
  > for older men)

  Yeah, I'm glad you said this 'cause I was really turned on by him in 
  LOTR and I kind of freaked myself out. He's, um, 30 years older than 
  me. Unhappily for me, of course, I'm not his type. ;-) (But I suppose 
  that's good news for my husband.)

  ~~Porphyria



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From naama_gat at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 19 09:04:27 2002
From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naamagatus)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:04:27 -0000
Subject: Cultural clarifications/pop culture
In-Reply-To: <a756nv+dudb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a76uur+rcqt@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "moongirlk" <moongirlk at y...> wrote:
> 
<snip all the really interesting stuff>
> One phenomenon may be more firmly entrenched in the collective 
psyche 
> than the next, but everything from Buffy to Gilligan to Friends to 
> Star Trek to Masterpiece Theatre enters into the equation and while 
> some of it is terribly embarrassing 
(I can't tell you how embarrassed 
> I was when I learned that Married with Children was show in other 
> countries), 
when you put it all together there's so much to draw from 
> and it really does add texture to the world.  
> 

Are you kidding?! They show Married with Children here - in Israel - 
and it's great! It's the one with the Bundys, right? Al, Peg, Bud and 
Christina Applegate? It's so funny. 
The embarassing stuff is sitcoms like, um, Full House, Step by Step 
(I'm just throwing names off the top of my head) and such like shows. 
Married with Children is a scathing satire - or rather a farce - on 
just those kind of shows, don't you think? 

Naama, who can watch the lousiest sitcom in the world but breaks into 
hives at the merest glimpse of a soap opera






From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 19 11:57:26 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:57:26 -0000
Subject: Ian McKellen on SNL
In-Reply-To: <a769ur+o9ji@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a77936+mr0m@eGroups.com>

Cindy wrote:

> > Cindy (who thinks Sir Ian is kinda cute, and she doesn't normally 
> go 
> > for older men)

Porphyria wrote:

> Yeah, I'm glad you said this 'cause I was really turned on by him in 
> LOTR and I kind of freaked myself out. He's, um, 30 years older than 
> me. 

Oh, I can remember quite a lot of drooling by the male-inclined 
members of the Z household back 20-some years ago when he was in The 
Scarlet Pimpernel (along with Anthony Andrews, who used to make my 
sister swoon but who wasn't my type).

Amy
who's above that kind of thing now ;-)




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 19 13:52:07 2002
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:52:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Email problem
In-Reply-To: <a764lb+a3v6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020319135207.36208.qmail@web14610.mail.yahoo.com>


--- lord_zenya <lordzenya at aol.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Since yahoo groups went down I haven't been getting
> emails from any 
> of my groups, is it just me, or is everyone else
> having this problem.
> 
> I am sorry this post was short, but I wanted to
> know, and I couldn't 
> find anyone who has already asked.
> 
> Peace, Lord Zenya
> 
I'm experiencing a fairly long delay before the emails
arrive, but they are coming. It may take a few days
for things to get back to normal, so I'm waiting to
see.

Sheryll

=====
"We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times."
 blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26

______________________________________________________________________ 
File your taxes online! http://taxes.yahoo.ca



From macloudt at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 19 14:43:16 2002
From: macloudt at hotmail.com (macloudt)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:43:16 -0000
Subject: Southwest England, be afraid...
Message-ID: <a77iq4+7m27@eGroups.com>

...be *very* afraid.  For in our midst is a Force of Destruction and 
Misery so powerful, so evil, that once I've sent this message I will 
be hiding myself and my family in the understairs cupboard and 
throwing away the key.  If it had one, that is.

What, I hear you cry, is this Force of Dark Evil?

CHANGING ROOMS!!!

:::::insert piercing screams:::::

Yes, an acquaintance of mine is actually participating in the show 
with her neighbour.  To make matters worse, it's the Prince of the 
FofDA, Laurence himself, who will be making over her...bedroom!  Can 
you say "boudoir", boys and girls?  Either pregnancy or some kind of 
Imperius Curse has affected her brain, as she actually *likes* 
Laurence's boudoir effect.  Poor Megan.  She was such a nice 
woman :::::sob:::::

So you have been warned...avoid Weston-super-Mare at all costs, 
unless you are into red velvet, leather, frilly pillows, kinky wall 
hangings, and exceedingly annoying show hosts with the teeth of a 
horse.

Mary Ann
(off to build an air-raid shelter)




From maryblue67 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 19 14:49:56 2002
From: maryblue67 at yahoo.com (maryblue67)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:49:56 -0000
Subject: Fallas in Spain
Message-ID: <a77j6k+qjm3@eGroups.com>

Hello! At this time of the year there is a huge festival in Valencia, 
Spain, called Fallas, in which we build very large monuments (several 
stories high) made of wood and paper, which normally have scenes of 
hte most important events of the previous year, and tonight they are 
burned at midnight. If you want to learn more about it, there is a 
promotional video in here;

http://www.fallas.com

i strongly recommend you to see it!

But why am i telling you this? Well, you can imagine that Harry 
Potter is one of the most popular topics of the past year, and thus 
it was portrayed in some Fallas. I haven't seen them myself (since 
i'm in the US and i'm missing the whole festival :(  ), but i have 
seen that one of the dolls that has the most votes to be saved from 
the fire (what we call "ninot indultat") is Harry Potter!!

You can see a picture of it here:
http://www.mundo-fallero.com/mfallero/secciones/expodelninot2002.htm

and assembled in its Falla here:

http://www.fallas.com/fallaexposicion/ultima_hora.htm

(middle of the page, among the pics)

Well, i hope you like it and it's relevant enough...

Maria





From moongirlk at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 19 16:01:12 2002
From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:01:12 -0000
Subject: Cultural clarifications/pop culture
In-Reply-To: <a76uur+rcqt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a77nc8+7mh0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "naamagatus" <naama_gat at h...> wrote:
> 
> Are you kidding?! They show Married with Children here - in Israel -
 
> and it's great! It's the one with the Bundys, right? Al, Peg, Bud 
and 
> Christina Applegate? It's so funny. 
> The embarassing stuff is sitcoms like, um, Full House, Step by Step 
> (I'm just throwing names off the top of my head) and such like 
shows. 

Oh dear, then it's worse than I imagined - I don't even know what 
Step by Step is, but I had sort of hoped the rest of the world had 
been spared Full House.  I suppose that was naive of me.


> Married with Children is a scathing satire - or rather a farce - on 
> just those kind of shows, don't you think? 

It's definitely a farce, but (for one thing) not everyone realizes 
that - I was a guest at someone's home when I learned that the show 
was playing in Belgium, and the family didn't really get it - they 
thought it was realistic.  And then (for another thing), there really 
*are* people like that, and if you know any of them, it makes 
watching the show seriously embarrassing...  Ok, so I kind of just 
contradicted myself, but I don't want to keep thinking about it, so 
I'm gonna quit now.

kimberly
easily embarrassed




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Tue Mar 19 18:27:12 2002
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:27:12 -0000
Subject: Cultural clarifications/pop culture
In-Reply-To: <a77nc8+7mh0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a77vu0+rnt6@eGroups.com>

Naama said:
> > Are you kidding?! They show Married with Children here - in 
Israel -
>  
> > and it's great! It's the one with the Bundys, right? Al, Peg, Bud 
> and  Christina Applegate? It's so funny. 
> > The embarassing stuff is sitcoms like, um, Full House, Step 
by Step  (I'm just throwing names off the top of my head) and 
such like  shows. 

And Kimberly said:
  And then (for another thing), there really 
> *are* people like that, and if you know any of them, it makes 
> watching the show seriously embarrassing...  Ok, so I kind of 
just  contradicted myself, but I don't want to keep thinking about 
it, so  I'm gonna quit now.
> 

Er, no, what's seriously embarrassing is being *married*  to 
somebody who likes MWC. 

Pippin
seriously glad they are showing JAG in that time slot now




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Tue Mar 19 13:29:37 2002
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:29:37 EST5EDT
Subject: Southwest England, be afraid... 
Message-ID: <18B0A37666@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

I'm going to assume what you're talking about is like the 
US show Trading Spaces.  :-)

I love this show and I'm always in awe at some of the ideas 
the decorators get.  This one show had...oh....I forget her 
name.....the more "out there" decorator....Genevieve, 
maybe...anyway, she put HAY on someone's walls.  
Yes....hay.  As in horse food.  It was totally bizarre.
Wallpaper paste and hay.  Weird.

My cousins and their neighbors have put in an application 
for this show. I cringed.  

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements


"Yes, I see your point, but as Dr. Rachel Bray said 
in her recently published paper 'Republican Themes in 
Beowulf,' Grendl truly is a respresentative of deep 
rooted hostility toward the kings attempt to centralize 
and control social issues."



From bray.262 at osu.edu  Tue Mar 19 13:16:32 2002
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:16:32 EST5EDT
Subject: I had considered myself well-read until.....
Message-ID: <18791616F0@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

I printed off the 100 Best Characters in Fiction Since 1900 
(thanks to the Leaky Cauldron for the link: 
http://www.npr.org/programs/totn/features/2002/mar/020319.ch
aracters.html  )

After going through and highlighting all that I've read on 
their list.....I am rather embarrassed.  I've only read 18 
of them and 6 of those are considered "children's" books 
(Winnie the Pooh, Cat In the Hat, Harry, etc.) and most of 
the 18 was required reading in high school. And I'm a 
blasted English major for goodness sake!  Tis a sad, sad 
day indeed.  :-/  Rather depressing.

I need to get to work on reading some of these.  Except for 
Lolita.  That story line gives me the yucks.

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements


"Yes, I see your point, but as Dr. Rachel Bray said 
in her recently published paper 'Republican Themes in 
Beowulf,' Grendl truly is a respresentative of deep 
rooted hostility toward the kings attempt to centralize 
and control social issues."



From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Tue Mar 19 18:24:59 2002
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:24:59 -0000
Subject: Clanging Rooms (was Southwest England, be afraid...)
In-Reply-To: <a77iq4+7m27@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a77vpr+jsri@eGroups.com>

Mary Ann wrote:
> ...be *very* afraid.  For in our midst is a Force of Destruction 
and 
> Misery , it's the Prince of the 
> FofDA, Laurence himself, who will be making over her...bedroom!  
Can 
> you say "boudoir", boys and girls?  Either pregnancy or some kind 
of 
> Imperius Curse has affected her brain, as she actually *likes* 
> Laurence's boudoir effect.  Poor Megan.  She was such a nice 
> woman :::::sob:::::

Ooooh, when is it going out?  The additional frisson of someone you 
*know* being progressively humiliated!

'I know she said she didn't want Morrocan at any price, but when you 
see this I think you'll be convinced...'

Who will she be working with then on her erstwhile friend's room? 
Squeaky Linda?  One of the Hugh Grantalikes?  After all, the worst 
part is not having one of your own rooms trashed, it's being held 
responsible for the rest of your days for ruining someone else's.

We would like to get on the ITV rival show, Better Homes, as they 
spend *real* money improving your home, *and* you get a bonus if you 
are more ambitious than the rival house.

David




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Tue Mar 19 19:46:21 2002
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 19:46:21 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter 
Message-ID: <1016567181.271.65783.w64@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-OTChatter group:

Who do you hate most? 

  o Cornelius Fudge 
  o The Dursleys 
  o Voldemort 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/polls 

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 







From plumeski at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 19 19:53:39 2002
From: plumeski at yahoo.com (GulPlum)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:53:39 -0000
Subject: I had considered myself well-read until.....
In-Reply-To: <18791616F0@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <a78503+54j4@eGroups.com>

"Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> I printed off the 100 Best Characters in Fiction Since 1900 
> 
http://www.npr.org/programs/totn/features/2002/mar/020319.characters.h
tml  )

> After going through and highlighting all that I've read on 
> their list.....I am rather embarrassed.  I've only read 18 
> of them and 6 of those are considered "children's" books 
> (Winnie the Pooh, Cat In the Hat, Harry, etc.) and most of 
> the 18 was required reading in high school. And I'm a 
> blasted English major for goodness sake!  Tis a sad, sad 
> day indeed.  :-/  Rather depressing.

I don't know whether this will depress you any more (I hope not) but 
I counted 26 (I was helped by having had to read several of the 
French books at school, and being a Slav, I can also notch up some of 
the Russians). Not having been subject to an American curriculum, 
though, I've never read Catcher in the Rye or the Kerouac. I keep 
promising myself I should, though.

Something I found interesting was to corelate that list with the 100 
best Novels list published last year (?) by Random House:

http://www.randomhouse.com/modernlibrary/100best/novels.html

(I didn't do a specific study so I leave everyone to draw their own 
conclusions).

As usual, lists like these are as telling for what they choose to 
leave out. Where are Tolkein's characters? Where's Alex from "A 
Clockwork Orange"? Claudius from "I, Claudius"? Montag 
from "Farenheit 451"? And that's just off the top of my head, without 
reference to either list.

P.S. Lolita is worth the read, despite the subject-matter.





From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 19 19:39:35 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:39:35 -0000
Subject: I had considered myself well-read until.....
In-Reply-To: <18791616F0@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <a7845n+kpck@eGroups.com>

Rachel Bray writes:

> After going through and highlighting all that I've read on 
> their list.....I am rather embarrassed. I've only read 18 
> of them and 6 of those are considered "children's" books 
> (Winnie the Pooh, Cat In the Hat, Harry, etc.) and most of 
> the 18 was required reading in high school. And I'm a 
> blasted English major for goodness sake! Tis a sad, sad 
> day indeed. :-/ Rather depressing.

I've read eight, but then again, I'm not very well-read.
Make it a list of the top 100 comic arcs, and I'll be a
little better off. OTOH, this list's top pick is from my
favorite ever novel, The Great Gatsby. Yay! All the
characters are brilliant IMO, but Gatsby himself has got
to be the best - "he invented just the sort of Jay Gatsby
that a seventeen year old boy would be likely to invent,
and to this conception he was faithful to the end."

Meanwhile, I can't believe Clarissa Dalloway made it. I
hated her! Then again, I hated that whole book.... -_-

I haven't read any of the pulp stuff on the list, so I'm
putting them all on my Amazon wishlist so as to keep them
in mind. *clicks* Hmmm...it's telling me that others who
have bought The Maltese Falcon also want The Big Sleep,
The Thin Man, and...Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone?!

--Anna




From keegan at mcn.org  Tue Mar 19 19:12:44 2002
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:12:44 -0800
Subject: Trading places
In-Reply-To: <18B0A37666@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020319110803.00a67240@mail.mcn.org>

At 01:29 PM 3/19/02 +0000, Rachel Bray wrote:
>I love this show and I'm always in awe at some of the ideas
>the decorators get.  This one show had...oh....I forget her
>name.....the more "out there" decorator....Genevieve,
>maybe...anyway, she put HAY on someone's walls.
>Yes....hay.  As in horse food.  It was totally bizarre.
>Wallpaper paste and hay.  Weird.
>for this show. I cringed.

There was a follow-up article in the SF Chronicle about this particular 
show.  The victims live in that area and they had very unpleasant things to 
say about what happened to their house.  It was one of those deadly filler 
articles that I love so very much.  By the time I finished reading it, I 
began to wonder about the sanity of the volunteers and the viciousness of 
the producers.  They ignored property lines and eviscerated a neighbor's 
garden for floral displays, destroying flowering trees, etc...  Neighborly 
feeling is not high at this point.

Decorating is such an odd thing anyway.  Doesn't everyone decorate by 
putting up another book case?

Catherine in California



From bray.262 at osu.edu  Tue Mar 19 15:18:08 2002
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:18:08 EST5EDT
Subject: Random House list....
Message-ID: <1A7FAB5568@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

OK...that's a bit better.  With the Board's List I've read 
32.  With the Reader's List, I've read 45.  That's a bit 
better than NPR's list.

I'm rather taken back by all the L. Ron Hubbard books that 
made the Reader's List.  Interesting.

And you are certainly right to point out that none of the 
JRR Tolkien characters made the NPR list.  Very odd!

I'm also taken back that To Kill A Mockingbird didn't make 
the Board's List. That FLOORS me.  That is truly one of the 
best books ever written.  Weird.


Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements


"Yes, I see your point, but as Dr. Rachel Bray said 
in her recently published paper 'Republican Themes in 
Beowulf,' Grendl truly is a respresentative of deep 
rooted hostility toward the kings attempt to centralize 
and control social issues."



From maryblue67 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 19 20:54:35 2002
From: maryblue67 at yahoo.com (maryblue67)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:54:35 -0000
Subject: I had considered myself well-read until.....
In-Reply-To: <18791616F0@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <a788ib+k1k6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> I printed off the 100 Best Characters in Fiction Since 1900 
> (thanks to the Leaky Cauldron for the link: 
> http://www.npr.org/programs/totn/features/2002/mar/020319.ch
> aracters.html  )
> 

Well, i made 8 or 9... i'm not 100 % sure if one or two of them i read
or not besides watching the movie, i remember having them in my hands
though, and the cover... But 8 for sure. Sometimes i was about to
count one more, and  then i would realize that i knew the character
through the movie only, and that should be cheating... :) I'm not too
proud, however i noticed that except for a couple (which i counted),
there is not much spanish literature included, so i guess it's normal.
And yes, i know this books are translated ;p

I'll read when i finish my phd, now when i grab a book i want
something easy to rest my mind from strange logic and computations.

Maria




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Tue Mar 19 22:17:49 2002
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:17:49 -0000
Subject: I had considered myself well-read until.....
In-Reply-To: <18791616F0@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <a78ded+50sp@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> 
wrote:
> I printed off the 100 Best Characters in Fiction Since 1900 
> (thanks to the Leaky Cauldron for the link: 
> http://www.npr.org/programs/totn/features/2002/mar/020319.ch
> aracters.html  )
> 
> After going through and highlighting all that I've read on 
> their list.....I am rather embarrassed.  I've only read 18 
> of them and 6 of those are considered "children's" books 
> (Winnie the Pooh, Cat In the Hat, Harry, etc.) and most of 
> the 18 was required reading in high school. 

Hmm...I've read thirty-six. A taste for mysteries and spy novels 
will take you far, I guess. But I'm probably twice your age, so I  
shouldn't be bragging.

Pippin
wondering why there's no science fiction on that list




From macloudt at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 19 22:27:51 2002
From: macloudt at hotmail.com (Mary Jennings)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:27:51 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Trading places/Changing Rooms
Message-ID: <F262Cl8aii08N8yxdZj000003ce@hotmail.com>

Californian Catherine wrote:

>Decorating is such an odd thing anyway.  Doesn't everyone decorate by
>putting up another book case?

I certainly do!  Trouble is, we've now literally run out of space.  Not that 
this minor detail stops either myself or DH from buying more books.  
Goodness, gracious, no.

Our house is also decorated in Hacked Up Furballs, Flying Weetabix, Itchy 
Poopy Bum (the number of times I had to scrub my son's bedroom wall and bed 
before he was toilet trained...), Muddy Cat Paws, and Piles of Dirty 
Laundry.  Heck, I should get folks from modern art museums 'round.  I'd make 
a fortune, what with all the dirty beds in the house.

Meanwhile my friend's tryst with Changing Rooms is being kept secret as she 
is not allowed to contact anyone while the show is being filmed.  It should 
be aired at the end of the year, though I plan to invite myself over long 
before then ;)  I don't know who my friend is working with, David, but I 
hope it's not the ever-perky Linda as Megan is 6 months pregnant and still 
naturally nauseous from time to time.

Mary Ann
(who still fears the Evil Decorators just 2 blocks from her home.  "Keep 
away!  I have magnolia walls, and I'm not afraid to use them!")

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Tue Mar 19 23:39:19 2002
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catorman)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:39:19 -0000
Subject: I had considered myself well-read until.....
In-Reply-To: <a78ded+50sp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a78i77+en5j@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> 
> wrote:
> > I printed off the 100 Best Characters in Fiction Since 1900 
> > (thanks to the Leaky Cauldron for the link: 
> > http://www.npr.org/programs/totn/features/2002/mar/020319.ch
> > aracters.html  )
> > 
> > After going through and highlighting all that I've read on 
> > their list.....I am rather embarrassed.  I've only read 18 
> > of them and 6 of those are considered "children's" books 
> > (Winnie the Pooh, Cat In the Hat, Harry, etc.) and most of 
> > the 18 was required reading in high school. 
> 
> Hmm...I've read thirty-six. A taste for mysteries and spy novels 
> will take you far, I guess. But I'm probably twice your age, so I  
> shouldn't be bragging.
> 
> Pippin
> wondering why there's no science fiction on that list

OK - I'm upping the ante with 52 (but I was am an English graduate 
and did a lot of 20th Century literature), but some of this really is 
stupid, as To Kill a Mockingbird is in there three times.  A very 
strange selection IMO.  Very male dominated, apart from Virginia 
Woolf (I've read her work and don't rate it).  Why no Science 
Fiction?  It also seemed to me that there were a lot of cult American 
novels in there, and none of the English equivalents - the last 20 
years in UK literature was really badly represented.  

BTW:  I think Lolita is superbly written - erudite, witty, cultured, 
eccentric (and monstrous).  It's definitely well worth reading IMO.


Catherine




From amy at pressroom.com  Wed Mar 20 03:07:18 2002
From: amy at pressroom.com (Amy Gourley)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:07:18 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: I had considered myself well-read until.....
References: <a788ib+k1k6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <016601c1cfbc$58acb780$b17ba8c0@amy>

I've read 11 from NPR list, 7 from the Random House list. I'd really like to
read more "classic" books. We got this list in high school of classic books
that everyone should read. I still have it and check off when I've read one
of them. I'm trying to read them all and get one from the library every so
often.

Amy





From evilgeniussmurf at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 20 04:50:48 2002
From: evilgeniussmurf at yahoo.com (evilgeniussmurf)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 04:50:48 -0000
Subject: what's up with fanfiction.net
Message-ID: <a794f8+rnho@eGroups.com>

fanfiction.net has been down for the past few hours..anyone know what 
happened? 




From alyeskakc at netzero.net  Wed Mar 20 05:51:50 2002
From: alyeskakc at netzero.net (alyeskakc)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 05:51:50 -0000
Subject: Changing Rooms
In-Reply-To: <F262Cl8aii08N8yxdZj000003ce@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <a7981m+bl63@eGroups.com>

I love Changing Rooms and am hopelessly addicted to watching it and 
Ground Force. Of course it may have something to do with Handy Andy 
and Tommy Walsh, I really like them both.

I do like most of the rooms, however some of them are just really 
foul. The prepertrator of most of these foul rooms is, IMHO, Laurence 
Llewelyn-Bowen. Every once in a while he pulls of a nice design but 
for the most part his rooms are just hideous beyond description. 

I tend to like Graham Wynne and Anna Ryder Richardson's rooms for the 
most part, every once in while they'll produce a foul room. Linda 
Barker I'm not too sure about except that she is quite fond of 
aubergine, and why don't they just call it purple. I haven't seen may 
episodes with any of the other desingers. 

Hey I don't think Andy and Carol did too bad when they tried their 
hands at designing. You have to admit it's way better than the 
majority of Laurence's.

Cheers,
Kristin





From saitaina at wizzards.net  Wed Mar 20 06:15:41 2002
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina`)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:15:41 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] what's up with fanfiction.net
References: <a794f8+rnho@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <01d601c1cfd6$aa69dca0$afe9adcf@oemcomputer>

It goes down periodically while they update the site.  They are still in the process of implementing new features and they add them whenever they have the whim to do so, so there's never any warning.  Sit tight and it should be up again soon.  

I would recommend cruising FictionAlley.org for you're hp fiction needs (of course if you were reading LoTR fiction like myself, you're outta luck).

Saitaina



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From devin.smither at yale.edu  Wed Mar 20 07:10:36 2002
From: devin.smither at yale.edu (uilnslcoap)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:10:36 -0000
Subject: Only a few hours to go...
Message-ID: <a79clc+110b4@eGroups.com>

...till Bloomsubury has this meeting of theirs and MAYBE something 
substantial comes out of this "analysts believe yadda yadda release 
date etc. etc." business.  I take Bloomsbury's extremely recent 
decision to change "In a perfect world, July 2002" to "In a perfect 
world, early autumn 2002" on their webpage as an indication of what 
they will say tomorrow (actually, it's 2 a.m. today Eastern as I 
write this and 7 or 8 a.m. in England, so I guess I mean today, not 
tomorrow).  I'll plump for September sometime, but I hope a miracle 
will happen and they'll say summer as these "analysts" expect.  The 
best part is that when I wake up tomorrow around 10 or 11 (I love 
Spring Break!), I will know whether this meeting said anything worth 
hearing about OotP's release date (assuming the meeting is during 
business hours).  I pray that it does, and if anyone reads this in 
time in America, sweet dreams.  As for you who are elsewhere in the 
world (like much of Europe), I hope Bloomsbury puts the info out 
early in the day.  I relish my not having to sit at the computer and 
refresh and refresh and refresh on the HPfGU-Announcements page and 
am sorry some of you don't have the same opportunity.

I wonder at almost everyone's not mentioning tomorrow's possible 
release date info.  Is it that we're collectively holding our 
breath?  Is it that we're afraid we'll jinx it if we say anything?  
Or am I the only one sitting here with baited breath?  I'd actually 
like an answer to that last part.  Why has it been so quiet around 
here about that particularly?  Is it that everyone is just resigned 
to wait and talking doesn't help?  And if the info is released 
tomorrow, will we flood in discussion for a day or two and then just 
start sitting and waiting (this time with an end in sight)?  I hope 
tomorrow, no, today (and anyone who would care to respond to the 
above questions) brings a lot of answers, but mostly I hope we can 
finally settle on some sort of official date to start counting 
towards.  I hope you all are doing well, and again, sweet dreams or 
lots of patience to those who need it as far as tomorrow's (damn) 
today's info is concerned.  Then again, we've all had to have 
patience for approaching two years (except those of us who joined the 
party late), so I guess I'll just wish for more of it for all of us.  
Good luck getting to tomorrow (damn!), that is to say, getting 
through today.

Devin




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Wed Mar 20 09:34:24 2002
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catorman)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:34:24 -0000
Subject: I had considered myself well-read until.....
In-Reply-To: <a78i77+en5j@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a79l30+9o3t@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "catorman" <catherine at c...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> wrote:
> > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> 
> > wrote:
> > > I printed off the 100 Best Characters in Fiction Since 1900 
> > > (thanks to the Leaky Cauldron for the link: 
> > > http://www.npr.org/programs/totn/features/2002/mar/020319.ch
> > > aracters.html  )
> > > 
> > > After going through and highlighting all that I've read on 
> > > their list.....I am rather embarrassed.  I've only read 18 
> > > of them and 6 of those are considered "children's" books 
> > > (Winnie the Pooh, Cat In the Hat, Harry, etc.) and most of 
> > > the 18 was required reading in high school. 
> > 
> > Hmm...I've read thirty-six. A taste for mysteries and spy novels 
> > will take you far, I guess. But I'm probably twice your age, so 
I  
> > shouldn't be bragging.
> > 
> > Pippin
> > wondering why there's no science fiction on that list
> 
> OK - I'm upping the ante with 52 (but I was am an English graduate 
> and did a lot of 20th Century literature), but some of this really 
is 
> stupid, as To Kill a Mockingbird is in there three times.  A very 
> strange selection IMO.  Very male dominated, apart from Virginia 
> Woolf (I've read her work and don't rate it).  Why no Science 
> Fiction?  It also seemed to me that there were a lot of cult 
American 
> novels in there, and none of the English equivalents - the last 20 
> years in UK literature was really badly represented.  
> 
> BTW:  I think Lolita is superbly written - erudite, witty, 
cultured, 
> eccentric (and monstrous).  It's definitely well worth reading IMO.
> 
> 
> Catherine

Addendum:  I'm being my normal dim self (all that reading obviously 
doesn't help!) because I realised afterwards that I shouldn't have 
counted some books more than once.  So the figure is at 45.  I had a 
look at the Random house lists, and was not surprised to see Ulysses 
at Number One.  I've read Portrait, but could never bring myself to 
read Ulysses.  I'm also pretty sure that 9 out of 10 people who claim 
it is one of the best books of the Twentieth Century haven't managed 
to read it either.  I'm still more surprised about what isn't there, 
than what is.

Catherine




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Wed Mar 20 09:41:16 2002
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catorman)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:41:16 -0000
Subject: Changing Rooms
In-Reply-To: <a7981m+bl63@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a79lfs+8lem@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "alyeskakc" <alyeskakc at n...> wrote:
> I love Changing Rooms and am hopelessly addicted to watching it and 
> Ground Force. Of course it may have something to do with Handy Andy 
> and Tommy Walsh, I really like them both.
> 
> I do like most of the rooms, however some of them are just really 
> foul. The prepertrator of most of these foul rooms is, IMHO, 
Laurence 
> Llewelyn-Bowen. Every once in a while he pulls of a nice design but 
> for the most part his rooms are just hideous beyond description. 

I think I've mentioned this before on this list, but Laurence 
Llewelyn-Bowen used to live round the corner from me in Blackheath.  
His house was on the market a couple of years ago, and looking at the 
interior shots gave me the impression that he doesn't follow the same 
rules when his own living space is involved - everything was in 
soothing, muted shades of lilac and pale blue (which I wouldn't like 
either - too cold).

He moved to Greenwich (into a house that my husband and I looked 
at).  I know the couple he bought it from, as they are members of my 
gym, and they were quite interested in what he was going to do with 
the place, as it's a very nice Georgian house.  However, he seems to 
be going through a lilac phase, because that's what he's done again.

I really don't like his Changing Rooms stuff, but I do like some of 
the things he's done with a much bigger budget - such as those on the 
Home Front programme with the Irish gardener whose name I always 
forget how to spell.

Catherine




From naama_gat at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 20 11:00:46 2002
From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naamagatus)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:00:46 -0000
Subject: I had considered myself well-read until.....
In-Reply-To: <18791616F0@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <a79q4v+btbj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> I printed off the 100 Best Characters in Fiction Since 1900 
> (thanks to the Leaky Cauldron for the link: 
> http://www.npr.org/programs/totn/features/2002/mar/020319.ch
> aracters.html  )
> 
> After going through and highlighting all that I've read on 
> their list.....I am rather embarrassed.  I've only read 18 
> of them and 6 of those are considered "children's" books 
> (Winnie the Pooh, Cat In the Hat, Harry, etc.) and most of 
> the 18 was required reading in high school. And I'm a 
> blasted English major for goodness sake!  Tis a sad, sad 
> day indeed.  :-/  Rather depressing.
> 
> I need to get to work on reading some of these.  Except for 
> Lolita.  That story line gives me the yucks.
> 

I thought I was well read too... I got 27 on the NPR list and then 
checked the Rondom house lists - 26 of the board's list and 37 of the 
reader's list. Some I wasn't sure I've read, and some I'm not sure I 
haven't read, so they probably cancel each other out. I also checked 
every Heinlin I saw, whether I remember reading it or not, since I 
had an obsessive SF reading spree during high school and read every 
Heinlin novel there was in the library (it was a pretty good library, 
too). In the board's list, it helped that I had a similar (though 
later) obsession with D.H. Lawrence (why didn't he make it to the 
readers' list, I wonder?) and E.M. Forster. But there are so many 
writers I haven't read at all - Saul Bellow, Aldous Huxley, Malcolm 
Lowry (who's he?), Theodore Dreiser, Edith Wharton, Willa Cather... 
and others.

I've never gotten up the nerve to read Ulysess either, Catherine, 
although it's sitting on my book shelf for over 5 years now. Maybe we 
should form a support group.. :-)

And yes, Lolita is wonderful. Definitely on my personal list of best 
books. 

Speaking of personal book lists, I know this is a long shot, but has 
anybone read novels by David Grossman? He's an Israeli writer whose 
books have been translated to English (and many other languages). 
Highly recommended. His best are (IMO) "See Under: Love" and "The 
Book of Intimate Grammar." Do try them. I'd love to know what 
Americans (and other non-Israelis) think of him.


Naama




From john at walton.vu  Wed Mar 20 13:09:12 2002
From: john at walton.vu (John Walton)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:09:12 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Changing Rooms
In-Reply-To: <a79lfs+8lem@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B8BE3A77.CFB7%john@walton.vu>

catorman wrote:

> I really don't like his Changing Rooms stuff, but I do like some of
> the things he's done with a much bigger budget - such as those on the
> Home Front programme with the Irish gardener whose name I always
> forget how to spell.

That would be the rather lovely Diarmuid Gavin, pronounced as in the even
lovelier Dermot O'Leary.

--John *swoondermotolearyswoon*

____________________________________________

Ivan Walton, Myezdunarodny Chelovyek iz Taini.

John Walton || john at walton.vu
____________________________________________






From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Mar 20 13:24:07 2002
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:24:07 -0000
Subject: Only a few hours to go...
In-Reply-To: <a79clc+110b4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7a2hn+u4pv@eGroups.com>

Extract from Bloomsbury's site, dated today:

www.bloomsbury-ir.co.uk/html/financial/f_latest.html

Fans of Harry Potter worldwide are looking forward to the next book 
in the series, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, which will 
be published by Bloomsbury on a publication date to be announced.

So there we have it.  Or perhaps we don't.  As Barry Norman would say.

David




From jdumas at kingwoodcable.com  Wed Mar 20 14:23:13 2002
From: jdumas at kingwoodcable.com (Katze)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:23:13 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Only a few hours to go...
References: <a7a2hn+u4pv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3C989B51.5E0D7D70@kingwoodcable.com>

davewitley wrote:
> 
> Extract from Bloomsbury's site, dated today:
> 
> www.bloomsbury-ir.co.uk/html/financial/f_latest.html
> 
> Fans of Harry Potter worldwide are looking forward to the next book
> in the series, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, which will
> be published by Bloomsbury on a publication date to be announced.
> 
> So there we have it.  Or perhaps we don't.  As Barry Norman would say.
> 

And...according to the Leaky Cauldron, a bank said there might not even
be a book this year. Are the considering the option to publish next
year, since the movie will continue to generate sales of the old books?
I'm at a crossroads here. I *do* think there is a responsibility to the
fans regardless of what Rowling and the Publishers think. While I can
understand their motivation to hold off on the publication to continue
to receive revenues for older publications, I have the option to speak
with my dollars. Perhaps I'll just get my books from the local library,
or borrow them from a friend. I'm really not interested in giving them
my money right now.

-Katze (who just woke up, and just had her husband tell her, "We both
know you'll be standing in line when OotP is released"). 

Morning is not a good time of day.



From bray.262 at osu.edu  Wed Mar 20 09:59:55 2002
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:59:55 EST5EDT
Subject: Big blunder
Message-ID: <2D32840753@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

On the first day of Spring, Ohio sets off their tornado 
alarms at 9:50 AM for a test.  Usually, a town sets them 
off once a week (for instance, in Columbus and surrounding 
towns it's noon on Wednesdays) but for the beginning of 
Tornado Season, they set them off all at once at 9:50.

The National Weather Station has noticed that Ohio's 
tornado alarms have gone off and has stated that "The 
entire state of Ohio is under a tornado warning."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!

*ahem*

Sorry, thought that was funny.

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements


"Yes, I see your point, but as Dr. Rachel Bray said 
in her recently published paper 'Republican Themes in 
Beowulf,' Grendl truly is a respresentative of deep 
rooted hostility toward the kings attempt to centralize 
and control social issues."



From bludger_witch at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 20 17:18:27 2002
From: bludger_witch at yahoo.com (Dinah ***)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:18:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Southwest England, be afraid...
In-Reply-To: <a77iq4+7m27@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020320171827.70858.qmail@web12005.mail.yahoo.com>

--- macloudt <macloudt at hotmail.com> wrote:
> What, I hear you cry, is this Force of Dark Evil?
> 
> CHANGING ROOMS!!!
> 
> :::::insert piercing screams:::::

Weeeelll... they actually stole this idea, like so
many otherf, from BBC and are doing it here on the
Bavarian regional channel, too. I kinda like it.
*watches as people recoil in horror*

Sorry. I'm a suckter for room decorating ideas and
sometimes it looks really good! Not last week, though,
when the decorator painted the living room of a very
conventional couple in small stripes of pink,
powder-blue, lime-green and lemon. Whow, did she stare
(quite aghast, I must add) <G>

Dinah

=====
"Bludger - nasty little buggers" - Oliver Wood, PS the movie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/



From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Wed Mar 20 18:27:52 2002
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:27:52 -0000
Subject: Only a few hours to go...
In-Reply-To: <3C989B51.5E0D7D70@kingwoodcable.com>
Message-ID: <a7akb8+i5u6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Katze <jdumas at k...> wrote:
>  Are the considering the option to publish next
> year, since the movie will continue to generate sales of the old books?
> I'm at a crossroads here. I *do* think there is a responsibility to the
> fans regardless of what Rowling and the Publishers think. 

I feel the same way.  Alternating between feeling cranky (on my own behalf) and 
worried that something's gone wrong with JKR.  

IIRC, in one of her earlier interviews she spokeabout how small she expected her 
audience to be, and how overwhelmed she was with all the attention the books 
have gotten.  I hope that she hasn't lost her nerve on account of all the close 
examination by folks like us!




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Wed Mar 20 14:15:14 2002
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:15:14 EST5EDT
Subject: Happy Spring!
Message-ID: <3173CF14A5@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

It's 2:16 PM (Ohio time, obviously) and that means it's 
officially Spring! (of course, it's supposed to snow 
tomorrow....)

So Happy Spring, everyone!  Eager to start seeing 
flowers...except I forgot to plant my tulips in time...oh 
well.

By the way, what's up with an "official" time needed for a 
season?  Why doesn't the season "start" when the calendar 
flips to that day?

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements


"Yes, I see your point, but as Dr. Rachel Bray said 
in her recently published paper 'Republican Themes in 
Beowulf,' Grendl truly is a respresentative of deep 
rooted hostility toward the kings attempt to centralize 
and control social issues."



From keegan at mcn.org  Wed Mar 20 19:28:28 2002
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:28:28 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Only a few hours to go...
In-Reply-To: <a7akb8+i5u6@eGroups.com>
References: <3C989B51.5E0D7D70@kingwoodcable.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020320112504.00a45d70@mail.mcn.org>

At 06:27 PM 3/20/02 +0000, you wrote:
>--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Katze <jdumas at k...> wrote:
> >  Are the considering the option to publish next
> > year, since the movie will continue to generate sales of the old books?
> > I'm at a crossroads here. I *do* think there is a responsibility to the
> > fans regardless of what Rowling and the Publishers think.
>
>I feel the same way.  Alternating between feeling cranky (on my own 
>behalf) and
>worried that something's gone wrong with JKR.

She may not have any power over when it's published.  Considering the greed 
of all industries, they (not JKR) will try to figure out the best way to 
crank out as much cash as possible from this.  JKR, according to what I've 
read in the papers, probably isn't that worried about money these days.  I 
thought for sure that they'd publish it in time for Christmas and to ride 
on the publicity for the second movie which is still filming.  I have to 
wonder how they're going to manage finishing that in time for the November 
release.

Grumble.  I think some lunch will help cure the bad mood.

Catherine in California



From foxmoth at qnet.com  Wed Mar 20 19:33:52 2002
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:33:52 -0000
Subject: Only a few hours to go...
In-Reply-To: <a7akb8+i5u6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7ao70+8bfm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "joanne0012" <Joanne0012 at a...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Katze <jdumas at k...> wrote:
> >  Are the considering the option to publish next
> > year, since the movie will continue to generate sales of the 
old books?
> > I'm at a crossroads here. I *do* think there is a responsibility 
to the
> > fans regardless of what Rowling and the Publishers think. 
> 
> I feel the same way.  Alternating between feeling cranky (on my 
own behalf) and 
> worried that something's gone wrong with JKR.  
>

Don't know what the rules are in the UK, but in the US a publicly 
traded corporation which unrealistically inflates stockholder 
expectations in its  reports can get into trouble with the Securities 
and Exchange Commission. So companies tend not to make 
product announcements in their annual reports 
unless they are reasonably sure that the product is going to be 
ready as predicted. It sounds to me like they're *not* sitting on 
the manuscript.

I don't really understand the "obligation to the fans" thing. The 
only thing I've paid for is the merchandise I've already received. I 
don't feel like any one owes me anything in exchange for 
whatever contributions I've made to the hype and the hoopla. As 
long as I continue to enjoy the books I have, I'll continue to read 
and discuss them, and if they fall apart, as my GoF shows signs 
of doing, I'll happily buy  some more.

Pippin
"No singer chooses silence." --Ursula LeGuin, The Farthest 
Shore




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Mar 20 20:53:18 2002
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:53:18 -0000
Subject: Only a few hours to go...
In-Reply-To: <a7ao70+8bfm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7asru+u237@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> wrote:
>
> companies tend not to make 
> product announcements in their annual reports 
> unless they are reasonably sure that the product is going to be 
> ready as predicted. It sounds to me like they're *not* sitting on 
> the manuscript.

I agree.  I'm sure that like any other company they value cash now 
over cash in the future, and are frustrated that they can't give a 
date yet.

I can't see that keeping OOP back will generate revenue from the 
eralier works; publishing it will, as we saw with GOF - many of us 
here only noticed HP when it came out.

I also agree she has no obligation to us.

David




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 20 21:52:49 2002
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:52:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Birthday Buddies!
Message-ID: <20020320215249.4420.qmail@web13703.mail.yahoo.com>


This is for everyone who has a Birthday this month and today! Since everything has been so messed up and all the Mods and Elves have been working very hard to correct what some selfish person or persons has done, well, I took it upon myself to check the Birthdays for March. Reason being is because I'm hitting the big 49 today and found out that Laura Hickman has the same day as me! Great discovery! So to cheer everybody up, this Birthday kid at heart girl wants to wish all the March Birthdays in this group and cheer up some people! I'm very happy today and want to make this list of Birthday boys and girls out there HAPPY too! So here is a huge toast to all of us March Birthday girls and boys, CHEERS and HAPPY BIRTHDAY! May we all have our wishes be granted and party the night away!

Schnoogles,

Wanda the Birthday Witch and Her Very Merry Band of MUggles 100% Partying in Revere, Massachusetts!



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From heidit at netbox.com  Wed Mar 20 22:05:48 2002
From: heidit at netbox.com (heidi tandy)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:05:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Birthday Buddies!
In-Reply-To: <20020320215249.4420.qmail@web13703.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020320220548.571.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com>

Wanda! Happy Birthday! Thanks for bringing a bit of
daily cheer into our HP4GUniverse!



=====
heidi tandy

They say its a sign of mental health to hold apparently contradictory ideas in your mind. The world of late has been a particularly exotic stew of horror and beauty. There are killers, there are saints. The trick is to find the right spot on the spectrum between abject despair and total obliviousness. And then carry on...
Joel Achenbach

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/



From UcfRentLuvr at cs.com  Wed Mar 20 22:06:31 2002
From: UcfRentLuvr at cs.com (UcfRentLuvr at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:06:31 -0500
Subject: Birthday Buddies!
Message-ID: <0878A51B.7BD66BA0.52A758FC@cs.com>

Reason being is because I'm hitting the big 49 today and found out that Laura Hickman has the same day as me! >>

Happy Birthday!! And may you have a fun-filled Harry Potter day! :)

***Dixie Malfoy***



From jdumas at kingwoodcable.com  Wed Mar 20 22:56:08 2002
From: jdumas at kingwoodcable.com (Katze)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:56:08 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Only a few hours to go...
References: <a7asru+u237@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3C991388.41882471@kingwoodcable.com>

davewitley wrote:

> I can't see that keeping OOP back will generate revenue from the
> eralier works; publishing it will, as we saw with GOF - many of us
> here only noticed HP when it came out.
> 
> I also agree she has no obligation to us.

I completely disagree - it's because of us that she no longer has to
worry about anything financial for the rest her and her daughter's life.
Same with Bloomsbury - because of us, the fans who fork out hard earned
money, they are now in a position to search out new authors and books.

What do you think would happen to them if revenues dropped to 0? 

They may not be sitting on the book, but It is a strategic move to earn
single dime possible from the previous books. Doing this with products
not as popular as HP would adversely affect future sales of the
products, because consumers would have lost respect for the company and
the product.

Like I said...I'm at a crossroads...I don't care to give them a dime
right now, but unfortunately I'm addicted to the story, and this is what
allows them to continue take more and more time, because they know we'll
buy regardless. 

-Katze (I hate tax time - perhaps that's why I don't want to give up a
dime right now?).



From s_ings at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 20 23:40:01 2002
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (S_Ings)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:40:01 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, Wanda and Laura!
Message-ID: <a7b6kh+u4u5@eGroups.com>

I see that Wanda is quicker than the Birthday Elf today. Thanks, 
Wanda, I appreciate you getting word out quicker than I have been 
able to today.

For those wishing to send birthday owls, Wanda can be reached at 
witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com and Laura's owls can be sent to 
animalsbaby_1999 at yahoo.com or lhickman at home.com

I hope both your days have been magical! May I treat you both to some 
butterbeer for being a bit late in the day with my birthday wishes?

Happy Birthday, Wanda and Laura,

SlowBirthdayElf!Sheryll




From john at walton.vu  Wed Mar 20 23:36:01 2002
From: john at walton.vu (John Walton)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:36:01 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Birthday Buddies!
In-Reply-To: <20020320215249.4420.qmail@web13703.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8BECD61.D0B5%john@walton.vu>

A MASSIVE Happy Birthday to everybody's favorite HPFGU-Cheerer-Upper, Wanda,
and to Laura, who posts such insightful discourses on the main list. You're
both such *great* assets to our community.

Oh, and Wanda, please update us on your William! And can we borrow him to
throw up on the hackers' keyboards? Please?

--John
____________________________________________

Don't join the book burners. Do not think you are going to conceal thoughts
by concealing evidence that they ever existed. -Dwight D Eisenhower

John Walton || john at walton.vu
____________________________________________




From joyw at gwu.edu  Wed Mar 20 23:49:36 2002
From: joyw at gwu.edu (- Joy -)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:49:36 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Birthday Buddies!
References: <20020320215249.4420.qmail@web13703.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00f601c1d069$e45677a0$53263244@nrockv01.md.comcast.net>

Wanda wrote:
"I'm hitting the big 49 today..."

Happy Birthday, Wanda!  I  hope your Muggles and Roy got you lots of great
HP stuff, and that your day was as bright and cheerful as you make each of
ours here.

~Joy~







From foxmoth at qnet.com  Thu Mar 21 00:20:44 2002
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:20:44 -0000
Subject: Take heart was Re: Only a few hours to go...
In-Reply-To: <3C991388.41882471@kingwoodcable.com>
Message-ID: <a7b90s+8k6i@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Katze <jdumas at k...> wrote:

> Like I said...I'm at a crossroads...I don't care to give them a 
dime
> right now, but unfortunately I'm addicted to the story, and this is 
what
> allows them to continue take more and more time, because 
they know we'll
> buy regardless. 
> 

If you have the patience to listen through a financial presentation, 
you can hear the Chairman of Bloomsbury actually saying that Jo 
is happily writing and they expect a publication date of book 5 
this year.

http://www.bloomsbury-ir.co.uk/html/financial/f_latest.html#webc
ast

You can also see a slide in which Bloomsbury announces its 
ambition to sell a Harry Potter book to everyone in the entire 
world. :-)

Pippin 




From pennylin at swbell.net  Thu Mar 21 02:24:45 2002
From: pennylin at swbell.net (plinsenmayer)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 02:24:45 -0000
Subject: Only a few hours to go...
In-Reply-To: <3C991388.41882471@kingwoodcable.com>
Message-ID: <a7bg9d+qkpp@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Katze <jdumas at k...> wrote:
> davewitley wrote:
>
> > I can't see that keeping OOP back will generate revenue from the
> > eralier works; publishing it will, as we saw with GOF - many of us
> > here only noticed HP when it came out.
> >
> > I also agree she has no obligation to us.

Katze replied:
>
> I completely disagree - it's because of us that she no longer has to
> worry about anything financial for the rest her and her daughter's
life. Same with Bloomsbury - because of us, the fans who fork out hard
earned money, they are now in a position to search out new authors and
books.
>
> What do you think would happen to them if revenues dropped to 0?
>
> They may not be sitting on the book, but It is a strategic move to
earn single dime possible from the previous books. Doing this with
products not as popular as HP would adversely affect future sales of
the products, because consumers would have lost respect for the
company and the product.
>
> Like I said...I'm at a crossroads...I don't care to give them a dime
> right now, but unfortunately I'm addicted to the story, and this is
what allows them to continue take more and more time, because they
know we'll buy regardless.

Me:

I'm coming into this a bit late, having only been alerted that this
discussion was happening over here.  A few comments:

1.  JKR might well feel some sort of moral obligation to have her fans
told of the next publication date at the earliest possible time.  But,
as Pippin said, in the US, there are laws and regulations set by the
SEC that will dictate when and how disclosure of a "significant event"
for a publicly-traded corporation may be made.  I practiced
corp/securities laws for nearly 10 yrs.  Whatever JKR's beliefs or
preferences are or might be, the fact is that her publishers are
publicly-traded corporations, and in the US, this places some
strictures on what can & can't be said (and when).

2.  Securities lawyer distinction here: there are periodic earnings
releases and then there are annual reports.  What Scholastic had last
week was merely a conference call to discuss their latest quarterly
earnings release.  They are not a 12/31 fiscal-year company.

3.  I don't understand this notion that the publishers are trying to
milk every last dime out of the previous volumes before releasing the
next one(s).  That makes no sense to me.  Releasing the next volume
(and the accompanying marketing that would go along with that) will
increases sales of ALL the HP books.  For example, once the release
date is announced, the marketing hoopla goes into effect.  At that
point, lots of non-HP readers will buy the first 4 books because they
finally heard of the whole craze or are just now caving in to see
what's causing all this commotion in the media.  By contrast, right
now, as evidenced by the quarter-to-quarter comparisons of Scholastic
(haven't read Bloomsbury's reports), trade sales (including HP) are
either flat or less than those in the prior year quarter.  In other
words, the financial results are saying quite clearly that it's in the
best interests of the publishers for the next book to be released (or
for a release date to be announced).

I'm just not seeing that there's any divergence of interest between
the publishers and the investing public and the fans. Releasing OOP
(or announcing a definite release date) is a win-win situation for
everyone.

Penny





From plumeski at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 21 02:30:38 2002
From: plumeski at yahoo.com (GulPlum)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 02:30:38 -0000
Subject: Only a few hours to go...
In-Reply-To: <a79clc+110b4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7bgke+6bco@eGroups.com>

"uilnslcoap" <devin.smither at y...> wrote:

> I wonder at almost everyone's not mentioning tomorrow's possible 
> release date info.  Is it that we're collectively holding our 
> breath?  

In my case, I took the whole story as nothing more than journalistic 
hype - how often do quoted companies get the chance to have their 
annual report talked about anywhere other than the Business pages 
(and thus up their recognition factor)?

I have deliberately been avoiding the subject because Bloomsbury 
don't need any more hype from me. In particular, I always expected 
the announcement of Book Five to be fudged in some way (easy to say 
with hindsight, I know), so I never intended to pay much attention to 
it.

> Is it that we're afraid we'll jinx it if we say anything?  

Speculation without any facts on which to base it (or looking for 
facts on which to base one's speculation) is fun. Speculation in the 
face of deliberate doubt an uncertainty is a mug's game.

> Or am I the only one sitting here with baited breath?  

I couldn't have cared less this morning.

> I'd actually like an answer to that last part.  

That statement is the only reason I'm writing this. 

> Why has it been so quiet around here about that particularly?  Is 
> it that everyone is just resigned to wait and talking doesn't help?

That's the sensible position. 

> And if the info is released tomorrow, will we flood in discussion 
> for a day or two and then just 
> start sitting and waiting (this time with an end in sight)?  

Well, as expected, the information given was pretty much worthless, 
and the slant put on it went in every possible direction. Which is 
exactly what I had expected, which is why I couldn't get excited 
about it.

> I hope 
> tomorrow, no, today (and anyone who would care to respond to the 
> above questions) brings a lot of answers, but mostly I hope we can 
> finally settle on some sort of official date to start counting 
> towards.  

It seems like late autumn is the best contender at present, though I 
wouldn't put it past Bloomsbury to make it summer. As someone else 
has pointed out, it's illegal for companies to misrepresent the facts 
they present in their annual reports (shades of Enron, anyone?) and 
so they've simply been playing it safe, and (rather playfully, IMO) 
given just enough  ambiguous information to allow the hypemeisters to 
say whatever they want. HP5 is "on time" but they've never said 
what "on time" means, so of course we're really no better off than we 
ever were. Which, again, is where I expected us to be.





From boggles at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 21 02:36:12 2002
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:36:12 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Spring!
In-Reply-To: <3173CF14A5@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
References: <3173CF14A5@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <p05010401b8bef7224cb2@[66.32.48.226]>

At 2:15 PM -0600 3/20/02, Rachel Bray wrote:
>
>By the way, what's up with an "official" time needed for a
>season?  Why doesn't the season "start" when the calendar
>flips to that day?

The calendar is arbitrary.  The Equinox is not.  Choosing to 
"officially" start the seasons on the equinoxes and solstices is a 
little arbitrary, but all the less arbitrary things I can think of 
would have Spring starting in some places well before others, which 
would be fine with me but hard on the colthing marketers.

-- 
  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles at earthlink.net
=== Personal Growth Geek Code v0.4 ===
GG++ !T A-- M++s--- g+ B- C- P++++ a- b- h+ her++ E+ N n++ i f+
c++ S%++++&&># D R++ xc++ xm+ xi+ yd++ ys++(-) rt+ ro+ rp++++ rjk<+
ow+++ ofn+ oft++ op++ esk-- ey+ ek+++ pl++ pf++ pe++ U!



From jdumas at kingwoodcable.com  Thu Mar 21 03:07:25 2002
From: jdumas at kingwoodcable.com (Katze)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:07:25 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Only a few hours to go...
References: <a7bgke+6bco@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3C994E6D.5007A3@kingwoodcable.com>

GulPlum wrote:

> It seems like late autumn is the best contender at present, though I
> wouldn't put it past Bloomsbury to make it summer. As someone else
> has pointed out, it's illegal for companies to misrepresent the facts
> they present in their annual reports (shades of Enron, anyone?) and
> so they've simply been playing it safe, and (rather playfully, IMO)
> given just enough  ambiguous information to allow the hypemeisters to
> say whatever they want. HP5 is "on time" but they've never said
> what "on time" means, so of course we're really no better off than we
> ever were. Which, again, is where I expected us to be.

I understand what everyone is saying, especially about the securities
and investments, but my emotions honestly feel like they are being
pulled - someone always has new information, which usually ends up being
fiction. I figure I should take all this information with a grain of
salt and realize that when there is a date, you'd have to be living
under a rock to not know. 

I will go now - and attempt to bring back my Vulcan logic and patiently
await the next book - whenever it may be.

-Katze



From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 21 03:47:17 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 03:47:17 -0000
Subject: Only a few hours to go...
In-Reply-To: <3C994E6D.5007A3@kingwoodcable.com>
Message-ID: <a7bl45+st9i@eGroups.com>

Katze wrote:

> I understand what everyone is saying, especially about the 
securities
> and investments, but my emotions honestly feel like they are being
> pulled - someone always has new information, which usually ends up 
being
> fiction. I figure I should take all this information with a grain of
> salt and realize that when there is a date, you'd have to be living
> under a rock to not know. 

Yes.  Of course, we aren't willing to wait until everyone who isn't 
living under a rock finds out--we want advance information.  Which is 
exactly why our emotions get pulled:  anyone who says a friend of a 
friend works for the company that makes the red pastels that Mary 
Grandpre likes best and the janitor there says his no-good son-in-law 
who worked last weekend noticed an awful lot of boxes of red in the 
storeroom and so she must've placed an order sends us into a frenzy.  
None of the rumors I can recall can actually be traced back to 
Scholastic, Bloomsbury, Christopher Little, or JKR, so I don't think 
they are pulling on our emotions.

Amy Z
welcoming spring with the biggest snowstorm of the year




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Thu Mar 21 10:52:15 2002
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catorman)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:52:15 -0000
Subject: Birthday Buddies!
In-Reply-To: <20020320220548.571.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a7ce0v+72ju@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., heidi tandy <heidit at n...> wrote:
> Wanda! Happy Birthday! Thanks for bringing a bit of
> daily cheer into our HP4GUniverse!

Hear, hear!  Wanda, you are the one person on this list who is always 
guaranteed to make me smile and make me feel more cheerful.

Have the happiest of birthdays!

Catherine




From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com  Thu Mar 21 11:01:42 2002
From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:01:42 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: I had considered myself well-read until.....
References: <a78i77+en5j@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <008d01c1d0c7$dac24a80$0200a8c0@shasta>

Catherine wrote,

> OK - I'm upping the ante with 52 (but I was am an English
graduate
> and did a lot of 20th Century literature), but some of this
really is
> stupid, as To Kill a Mockingbird is in there three times.

Stupid perhaps - but very kind in my case! If I hadn't been lucky
enough to have read Mockingbird, Brideshead, Pooh and Heart of
Darkness (all of which had multiple entries) I'd be a lot worse
off than my meager 35!

Some oddities:

Catherine's right - where are the women?? (And which women would
you all suggest adding? I'm stuck.)

The name "Baggins" seems so far to have escaped the ponderings of
whatever Dark Lord put this list together. Nor did he catch any
of the people in Byatt [Possession, anyway], Murdoch, Golding,
Lawrence or Henry James' 20th century creations. And I suppose
Douglas Adams' folk or James Herriot aren't cute enough to count
as classic kiddy lit - and are too low brow to count as meat and
beer for grown men.

Not that I miss Heny James. His late stuff bores me to tears.

But he's not as bad as Ulysses, which is everywhere - and which I
did force myself to spend a long time staring at. (I'm giving
myself full points for that staring, even it *wasn't* exactly
what I'd normally call "reading," since I had no idea what I was
staring at ... )

James isn't as bad as Kafka, either. I started The Castle three
times, Metamorphosis once and never finished the first chapter of
either. Perhaps I ought to try it in translation. I have a
greater tolerance for masochism in English.

I also started one of Updike's Rabbit books once - and didn't
like it well enough to read more than the first ten pages. There
was something so brittle, clever and ironic about it that I
almost got a sick stomach. Should I have begun with the first?

Also: Why'd they pick Italo Calvino over Uberto Eco? I've read
one Calvino (not the one on the list), but I should think Eco's
characters - in Pendlum or Name of the Rose - should have had
dibs on a list of this kind.

BTW, there were quite a few of my personal naggs in that list -
authors I think I might like but have never managed to try:
Proust, Camus, Salinger, Kerouac, Faulkner, Amis and Naipaul. Who
should I start with? (Yoo-hoo .. Catherine?) (And is Proust good
or another of the illegible classics?)

And finally, I'm glad Kazuo Ishiguro made the list. I've only
read Floating World - found it lying about in a Swiss second-hand
hand furniture shop - but it had something about it that tells me
I want to read more.

Baaaaaa!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray)
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that
may not have been bravery...."





From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com  Thu Mar 21 11:02:01 2002
From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:02:01 +0100
Subject: Death to Yahoo!
References: <a8.86033d3.29c9396e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <008e01c1d0c7$dadc3b20$0200a8c0@shasta>

Um ... did you guys get this stuff too?

I rarely use web view, so this is a major pain.

* * * * * *

Effective April 24, 2002, Yahoo! Mail will no longer provide free
POP3 Access or Auto Mail Forwarding to Yahoo! Delivers
subscribers.

<snip>

Subscribe before April 24th and get the first year of service for
just $19.99. That's 33% off the regular service fee of $29.99.

Remember, if you do not subscribe by April 24, 2002, you will no
longer be able to access your Yahoo! Mail messages by POP or at
another email address.

* * * * * *

I can't believe these people! They offer their "free email
address for life" just long enough to get you so hooked you could
never get all your friends and contacts to switch again. (My
family  & work addresses are all at Yahoo!) Then they pull !@#$
like this.

Of course, to sweeten the deal, they deliver miserable service in
the weeks prior to their announcement.

Barf!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, who thinks it's about time to
buy a domain name with email service. And it won't be from
Yahoo.)
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that
may not have been bravery...."





From s_ings at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 21 14:01:57 2002
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (S_Ings)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:01:57 -0000
Subject: Death to Yahoo!
In-Reply-To: <008e01c1d0c7$dadc3b20$0200a8c0@shasta>
Message-ID: <a7cp4l+p3fj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Aberforth's Goat" 
<Aberforths_Goat at Y...> wrote:
> Um ... did you guys get this stuff too?
> 
> I rarely use web view, so this is a major pain.

Agreed, as I rarely use webview either. 
> 
> * * * * * *
<snip Yahoo!'s bid for our money> 
> * * * * * *
> 
> I can't believe these people! They offer their "free email
> address for life" just long enough to get you so hooked you could
> never get all your friends and contacts to switch again. (My
> family  & work addresses are all at Yahoo!) Then they pull !@#$
> like this.
> 
> Of course, to sweeten the deal, they deliver miserable service in
> the weeks prior to their announcement.
> 
> Barf!
> 
> Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, who thinks it's about time to
> buy a domain name with email service. And it won't be from
> Yahoo.)

You'd think they would re-think the timing on this one, in view of 
the crappy service they've recently provided. Or perhaps their stand 
on this is "Well, if you had paid services it wouldn't be so bad". A 
pox on Yahoo!

Sheryll, thankful her ISP provides 6 email addresses and thinking 
it's about time to start using one




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Thu Mar 21 14:05:31 2002
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catorman)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:05:31 -0000
Subject: I had considered myself well-read until.....
In-Reply-To: <008d01c1d0c7$dac24a80$0200a8c0@shasta>
Message-ID: <a7cpbb+2067@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Aberforth's Goat" 
<Aberforths_Goat at Y...> wrote:
> Some oddities:
> 
> Catherine's right - where are the women?? (And which women would
> you all suggest adding? I'm stuck.)

Several that I can think of - you mention AS Byatt below, and I would 
certainly include at least Possession, and perhaps Fred in "Babel 
Tower" - I know she appears in some earlier books, but this is my 
favourite.  I also love Angels and Insects.    Also Iris Murdoch, 
Carol Shields (in particular Mary Swann and The Stone Diaries) Olivia 
Manning (her Fortunes of War sextet is wonderful), Maggie Gee, 
Isabelle Allende, Nancy Mitford, Jill Paton Walsh (I love "Knowledge 
of Angels") Doris Lessing, Annie Proulx and perhaps even Barbara 
Trapido.  I'd love to include Georgette Heyer and a host of others as 
well, but I don't suppose they count as serious fiction.  Also, 
considering there are children's books on the list, how come there 
wasn't a mention of LM Montgomery - no Anne Shirley? That seems very 
odd to me.

> Not that I miss Henry James. His late stuff bores me to tears.

Ditto, although I liked Turn of the Screw

> But he's not as bad as Ulysses, which is everywhere - and which I
> did force myself to spend a long time staring at. (I'm giving
> myself full points for that staring, even it *wasn't* exactly
> what I'd normally call "reading," since I had no idea what I was
> staring at ... )

Well, that made me Laugh out Loud!  I know exactly what you mean - do 
the same thing every time I open my taxbooks (or kind of drift into 
it gradually).

> James isn't as bad as Kafka, either. I started The Castle three
> times, Metamorphosis once and never finished the first chapter of
> either. Perhaps I ought to try it in translation. I have a
> greater tolerance for masochism in English.

Ack - had to read Metamorphosis and the Trial in German for my A 
levels, and I have to say that I cheated.  Too frustrating for words 
(in English and German).

> I also started one of Updike's Rabbit books once - and didn't
> like it well enough to read more than the first ten pages. There
> was something so brittle, clever and ironic about it that I
> almost got a sick stomach. Should I have begun with the first?

Yep, I'd agree with that as well.  I've never been able to get into 
John Updike.  I would have liked to see John Fowles on the list.  
Anyone read "The Magus" or "the Collector"?

> Also: Why'd they pick Italo Calvino over Uberto Eco? I've read
> one Calvino (not the one on the list), but I should think Eco's
> characters - in Pendlum or Name of the Rose - should have had
> dibs on a list of this kind.

That, I also don't understand.  Umberto Eco often seems to be 
overlooked in these kind of lists, and I've never been able to fathom 
out why.  I think that both Foucault's Pendulum and Name of the Rose 
are extremely clever and witty, and the character of William 
Baskerville in particular is a wonderful creation.

> BTW, there were quite a few of my personal naggs in that list -
> authors I think I might like but have never managed to try:
> Proust, Camus, Salinger, Kerouac, Faulkner, Amis and Naipaul. Who
> should I start with? (Yoo-hoo .. Catherine?) (And is Proust good
> or another of the illegible classics?)

Well, I'm probably not the person to ask on this because I'm not a 
huge fan of either Salinger or Kerouac, although I did manage to 
stumble my way through Catcher in the Rye and On the Road at some 
time or other.  I always feel guilty for not enjoying Catcher in the 
Rye - I just don't find it a sympathetic book.  I find reading male 
North American novelists a strange experience - I'm very hit and miss 
with them.  I've enjoyed Nabakov, Bernard Malamud, David Guterson and 
Robertson Davies (I know he's Canadian) and some of the gay writers 
such as Felice Picano, Edmund White  (both of whom I would have 
included on this list, btw), but I always find that I don't like many 
of the books I feel I should.  I've had Tom Wolfe's "A Man in Full" 
by my bad for ages - I keep picking it up and reading a few pages - 
then lose interest.

As for Amis - Kingsley or Martin?  I certainly prefer the latter - 
all of the earlier stuff such as Money and London Fields.  Again, 
with Kingsley, I was never very struck with "Lucky Jim" - did it as 
part of a course about the campus novels, which included Malcolm 
Bradbury, David Lodge, and AS Byatt, and prefered all of the others 
to Amis.  

> And finally, I'm glad Kazuo Ishiguro made the list. I've only
> read Floating World - found it lying about in a Swiss second-hand
> hand furniture shop - but it had something about it that tells me
> I want to read more.

I've read "Remains of the Day" and I have to say that it's one of 
those rare occasions when I preferred the film - perhaps because 
Anthony Hopkins and Emma Thompson worked so well together.  
Coincidentally, I feel the same way about EM Forster's novels - I've 
waded through them when at college, but generally preferred the 
Merchant Ivory adaptations. 

Catherine





From ameliagoldfeesh at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 21 15:12:58 2002
From: ameliagoldfeesh at yahoo.com (ameliagoldfeesh)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:12:58 -0000
Subject: considered myself well-read until..+ I. Adler series
Message-ID: <a7ct9q+tfu0@eGroups.com>

Well after looking at the NPR list, the Random House, and Random
House Reader's list, I consider myself half-way decently well read 
(IMHO).  However not when it comes to Hemingway- and for that I don't 
feel bad, I have never cared for his writing.  By a coincidence I 
happen to be reading The Big Sleep right now just because I've always 
heard of Chandler and because it is a short, quick read.  I love 
Remains of the Day and An American Tragedy.  I may have to reread My 
Antonia again. I had a prof who would read sections of it out loud
and do the Bohemian accent- mostly to keep his students from saying 
"An-tony-a." :)

Speaking of reading, does anyone on here read Carol Nelson Douglas' 
Irene Adler series?  While at the library looking for The Eyre Affair
I ran across a new one called Chapel Noir.  I was So bitter when I got
to the end of it.  I swear she was taking a leaf out of JKR's books-
I never expected it to end with "to be continued..."

If anyone else has read this book- I'm curious if anyone thinks they 
know who the unnamed peasant is.  He is the companion of the 
(psychopathic-sounding) narrator of the "From a Yellow Book"
sections. I have a very strong suspicion that the companion is a 
certain historical character and am curious what others think.

A Goldfeesh

You've been through all of 
F.Scott Fitzgerald's books
You're very well read 
It's well known

Because something is happening here
Butyou don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?
     Dylan, Ballad of a Thin Man





From macloudt at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 21 15:46:06 2002
From: macloudt at hotmail.com (Mary Jennings)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:46:06 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Birthday Buddies!
Message-ID: <F19VW4d75VnnHFZ33Oj00015919@hotmail.com>

Wanda wrote:

I took it upon myself to check the Birthdays for March. Reason being is 
because I'm hitting the big 49 today[...]

*29*, Wanda, *29*! ;)

[...]and found out that Laura Hickman has the same day as me!

And so does my son Gareth, now a whole 4 years old.  Happy Birthday to both 
of you, though Wanda had best keep an eye on her butterbeer consumption at 
her wisdom-like age :p

Cheers!

Mary Ann
(on a sugar high from all the stuff left over from the kiddie party)

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com




From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Thu Mar 21 15:47:24 2002
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:47:24 -0000
Subject: Death to Yahoo!
In-Reply-To: <008e01c1d0c7$dadc3b20$0200a8c0@shasta>
Message-ID: <a7cvac+406k@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter, "Aberforth's Goat" wrote:
> Um ... did you guys get this stuff too?
> 
> I rarely use web view, so this is a major pain.
> 
> * * * * * *
> 
> Effective April 24, 2002, Yahoo! Mail will no longer provide free
> POP3 Access or Auto Mail Forwarding to Yahoo! Delivers
> subscribers.

[snip]

> Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, who thinks it's about time to
> buy a domain name with email service. And it won't be from
> Yahoo.)

Interestingly enough, I haven't, but that is probably because I have 
mostly Norwegian Yahoo!Mail-addresses.  It will get here soon enoguh, 
no doubt, and a major nuisance it is too.  Just about everything I 
have of email-addresses come in some form of Yahoo!Mail, be it 
Norwegian, Danish, British or US.  This will, of course, greatly 
increase the problem of mailbox-congestion, which I for a time had 
solved by using POP3-access.  I can use my uni-address, of course, 
but that is not satisfactory for the time being, also because I won't 
have that address for more than about a year and a half.  

Luckily I have an alternative, which is still free for Norwegian 
users.  I will not say more just now about the goodness of the 
alternative, as that would be rubbing salt in Y'all's wounds.  ;-)

Best regards
Christian Stub?
"Peace, love, and bullet-proof marshmallows"




From john at walton.vu  Thu Mar 21 16:28:34 2002
From: john at walton.vu (John Walton)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:28:34 +0000
Subject: Alternative Email Solutions
In-Reply-To: <a7cvac+406k@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFBAB2.D1DB%john@walton.vu>

Gosh, that heading looks like a spam mail, doesn't it? :D

You may have noticed that I have my own domain, walton.vu. I bought this
from the lovely government of Vanuatu, a small island state in the South
Pacific, whose principal economic commodity is domain name sales (and then
tourism). [Aside: Indeed, did you know that the small island nation of
Tuvalu pays its United Nations dues from the money it got for all those .tv
domains?]

I have my domain hosted with a very good host, which has only given me a
couple of hours of trouble ever since I started.

However, it does cost -- the domain names range up to $100 for a year!
*However*, domains ending in .org.uk are only five UK pounds (about US$7).
Hosting, depending on what you use, can be anywhere from $5-10 per month.
Why don't a bunch of folks club together and get themselves a .org.uk
domain?

Alternatively, of course, you can use Hotmail via current versions of
Outlook Express. It's not *quite* POP3, but it's close.

--John




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 21 17:46:32 2002
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:46:32 -0000
Subject: I had considered myself well-read until.....
In-Reply-To: <18791616F0@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <a7d69o+8u82@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> After going through and highlighting all that I've read on 
> their list.....I am rather embarrassed.  I've only read 18 
> of them and 6 of those are considered "children's" books 
> (Winnie the Pooh, Cat In the Hat, Harry, etc.) and most of 
> the 18 was required reading in high school. And I'm a 
> blasted English major for goodness sake!  Tis a sad, sad 
> day indeed.  :-/  Rather depressing.
> 
> I need to get to work on reading some of these.  Except for 
> Lolita.  That story line gives me the yucks.
 
I've known some folks for whom Lolita was required reading in 
college.  However, I only got 33 of the characters (and I thought 
some of the labels were wrong or limited to only one book in which 
the character appeared, rather than all of the books in which the 
author used the character).

For instance, I was familiar with Gatsby (1), Holden & Phoebe 
Caulfield (2 & 54), The Little Prince (46) and Santiago (47),   but 
these were read for high school English classes (although I own 
copies of the books and have reread them for pleasure since then--
and the Little Prince was read in French).

College courses were more frequently a reason for my having come in 
contact with characters on the list: Gregor Samsa (12), The 
Invisible Man (13), George Smiley (18--yes, this was a required book 
in Honors Freshman Lit), Meursault (52), Grendel (57), Benjy (69), 
Joseph K. (83) and Quentin Compson (97)--although Quentin's 
inclusion annoys and confuses me, as I felt like SCREAMING at him 
the entire time I was reading his narration in the "Sound and the 
Fury."  

Most of the characters I'm familiar came from children's books or 
just books I decided to read on my own.  Is anyone else confused by 
the character Peter Pan (40) being listed with "The Little White 
Bird" instead of "Peter Pan?"  The other kids' book characters I had 
were Winnie the Pooh (29), Toad (38), The Cat in the Hat (39), 
Charlotte (63), Harry Potter (85) and Eeyore (96).  What?  No Mary 
Poppins?  No Ramona?  No Matilda Wormwood?  No Anne Shirley?  Not 
too surprisingly, there's a preponderance of male characters in 
general on the list.  Hmmm.

The "reading for pleasure" characters I had were Sherlock Holmes 
(6), Scarlett O'Hara (23), Cosimo Piovasco di Rondo (28--how cool to 
see something by Italo Calvino on the list!), Alex Portnoy (32--
although I detested the book, and I like a number of things by 
Philip Roth), Sam Spade (42), Antonia Shimerda (56), Big Brother 
(59), T.S. Garp (64), Frankie Adams (77), Nathan Zuckerman (80--
although I thought the character first appeared in "The Ghost 
Writer" and I never heard of the novel listed here), Yuri Zhivago 
(84), Hana (86--although I first encountered her in an earlier book) 
and Celie (99).

Since Garp is here, I wish his mother (Jenny Fields) was also (a 
fantastic character!).  And, of course, I felt that Irving's 
masterpiece, "A Prayer for Owen Meany," was woefully overlooked.  
And just how/why was Vonnegut's Kilgore Trout omitted?

If we were allowed to count viewing films/miniseries as a way to 
become familiar with a character my count would go up to 47, which 
is almost half, but I suppose that would be cheating. ;)

--Barb
(oh--and nothing from the Raj Quartet?)




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 21 18:00:21 2002
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:00:21 -0000
Subject: Random House list....
In-Reply-To: <1A7FAB5568@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <a7d73l+v7to@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> OK...that's a bit better.  With the Board's List I've read 
> 32.  With the Reader's List, I've read 45.  That's a bit 
> better than NPR's list.
> 
> I'm rather taken back by all the L. Ron Hubbard books that 
> made the Reader's List.  Interesting.
 
Funny, I get only 10 out of 100 on the Board's list and 25 on the 
Reader's List (which has "A Prayer for Owen Meany."  Yay!).

In general, though, I noticed a lot more science fiction on the 
reader's list, and almost none on the NPR list or the board list.  I 
think many people don't consider this literature, when some of the 
best writing I've ever read is SF.  OTOH, even on the reader's list, 
where's Ursula LeGuin?  Where's Isaac Asimov?  Where's Arthur C. 
Clarke and Fred Pohl and Robert Silverberg and L. Sprague de Camp 
and...I could go on and on.  

Since my father-in-law and many of our friends are SF writers, this 
miffs me.  I know that Michael Swanwick and Gardner Dozois aren't as 
well known as the above people, but then LeGuin, Asimov et al 
weren't on the list either.  What gives?  And no Terry Pratchett?  

--Barb





From bray.262 at osu.edu  Thu Mar 21 18:07:45 2002
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (duranduran88)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:07:45 -0000
Subject: I recommend......(was Re: I considered myself well-read..)
In-Reply-To: <008d01c1d0c7$dac24a80$0200a8c0@shasta>
Message-ID: <a7d7hh+hfsr@eGroups.com>

> BTW, there were quite a few of my personal naggs in that list -
> authors I think I might like but have never managed to try:
> Proust, Camus, Salinger, Kerouac, Faulkner, Amis and Naipaul. Who
> should I start with? 


I personally suggest Salinger. But be warned....he is truly one of 
those Love Him/Hate Him authors.  I happen to love him.  I thought 
The Catcher In The Rye was brilliant.  I've read it twice as a 
requirement (freshmen year in high school, sophomore year at OSU)and 
at least twice for fun.  Great book.  Nine Stories is good, too.

Faulkner, well.....I have some problems with him because I was forced 
to do a research paper on him in the 8th grade was instantly turned 
off. :-)  But....The Sound and the Fury wasn't bad at all. It's an 
easy read.

My father loves Kerouac.  I've tried and tried to read On The Road 
but I just can't get into it.  But I know he has a great fan base out 
there.


Rachel Bray
(who is willing to give Lolita a try after all those endorsements on 
this list.)




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 21 18:29:01 2002
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:29:01 -0000
Subject: I had considered myself well-read until.....
In-Reply-To: <a7cpbb+2067@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7d8pd+tfs3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "catorman" <catherine at c...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Aberforth's Goat" 
> <Aberforths_Goat at Y...> wrote:
> > Some oddities:
> > 
> > Catherine's right - where are the women?? (And which women would
> > you all suggest adding? I'm stuck.)
> 
> Several that I can think of - you mention AS Byatt below, and I 
> would certainly include at least Possession, and perhaps Fred 
> in "Babel Tower" - I know she appears in some earlier books, but 
> this is my favourite.  I also love Angels and Insects.    Also 
> Iris Murdoch, Carol Shields (in particular Mary Swann and The 
> Stone Diaries) Olivia Manning (her Fortunes of War sextet is 
> wonderful), Maggie Gee, Isabelle Allende, Nancy Mitford, Jill 
> Paton Walsh (I love "Knowledge of Angels") Doris Lessing, Annie 
> Proulx and perhaps even Barbara Trapido.   

I'm not familiar with some of these authors, but I concur about 
Allende, Lessing and Proulx.  I also preferred Morrison's "Song of 
Solomon" to the novel they listed, and Amy Tan was nowhere to be 
seen.  A lot of women write mysteries, and mysteries, like SF novels 
were very underrepresented, so we had no P.D. James, no Ngaio Marsh, 
no Agatha Christie (shouldn't Miss Marple be on the list as a 
character?  Or at least Hercule Poirot?).

> > Not that I miss Henry James. His late stuff bores me to tears.
> 
> Ditto, although I liked Turn of the Screw

I prefer the opera.

[snipped complaints about Joyce, Kafka and Updike--general nodding 
going on here]

> I would have liked to see John Fowles on the list.  
> Anyone read "The Magus" or "the Collector"?

Good point.  And no Pat Conroy, either.  "The Great Santini" himself 
is definitely an unforgettable character.  Although I have to 
sometimes remind myself that Pat Conroy and William Styron are two 
different people.

> > Also: Why'd they pick Italo Calvino over Uberto Eco? I've read
> > one Calvino (not the one on the list), but I should think Eco's
> > characters - in Pendlum or Name of the Rose - should have had
> > dibs on a list of this kind.
> 
> That, I also don't understand.  Umberto Eco often seems to be 
> overlooked in these kind of lists, and I've never been able to 
> fathom out why.  I think that both Foucault's Pendulum and Name of 
> the Rose are extremely clever and witty, and the character of 
> William Baskerville in particular is a wonderful creation.

Eco has only produced a few books, one of which was a standard sort 
of mystery (Rose), although very well done (but William of 
Baskerville is VERY derivative of Holmes), and one of which was 
ruined by bad addition (Pendulum).  I have another book by Eco which 
I haven't started yet, but after my Pendulum experience, I'm a 
little nervous.  Calvino, OTOH, has produced the masterpiece "If On 
A Winter's Night A Traveler," as well as the amazing little 
gems, "The Cloven Viscount,"  "The Nonexistent Knight," 
and "Invisible Cities," among other works.  People who are better-
read in terms of modern Italian authors could probably weigh in with 
other options, but since Eco and Calvino are translated into English 
more frequently than anyone else, if I had to choose to read one 
modern Italian writer, it would definitely be Calvino.  Check out 
more of his stuff.  It's amazing.

> > BTW, there were quite a few of my personal naggs in that list -
> > authors I think I might like but have never managed to try:
> > Proust, Camus, Salinger, Kerouac, Faulkner, Amis and Naipaul. Who
> > should I start with? (Yoo-hoo .. Catherine?) (And is Proust good
> > or another of the illegible classics?)

None of the above. ;)  I went on a Willa Cather kick a few years 
back and liked "My Antonia" best (some just plain BEAUTIFUL 
language), but "Song of the Lark" was also lovely (and went to my 
heart, as I'm a singer).  I liked "Death Comes for the Archbishop" 
least, even though it is highly praised and won numerous awards.  
Actually, I shouldn't have said "none of the above."  Go for 
Salinger (Rye) and Faulkner definitely.  Camus I think is only read 
when people have guns to their heads (or term papers to write) and 
you have to be in the proper frame of mind to read Kerouac, I'm told 
(preferably slightly inebriated).

[other snipped recommendations]

> > And finally, I'm glad Kazuo Ishiguro made the list. I've only
> > read Floating World - found it lying about in a Swiss second-hand
> > hand furniture shop - but it had something about it that tells me
> > I want to read more.
> 
> I've read "Remains of the Day" and I have to say that it's one of 
> those rare occasions when I preferred the film - perhaps because 
> Anthony Hopkins and Emma Thompson worked so well together.  
> Coincidentally, I feel the same way about EM Forster's novels - 
> I've waded through them when at college, but generally preferred 
> the Merchant Ivory adaptations. 

I only saw the film of "Remains of the Day" and I'm not sure I want 
to read the book because after I saw the film it was ruined for me 
by my hearing a truly clueless minister give a sermon on it.  I may 
read other things by the same author, if I come across them.  I 
can't read Forster to save my life.  Love the films based on his 
books, but I just find them unreadable.  OTOH, maybe I should keep 
some Forster on my nightstand for when I have insomnia...

--Barb





From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Thu Mar 21 20:03:23 2002
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:03:23 -0000
Subject: Alternative Email Solutions
In-Reply-To: <B8BFBAB2.D1DB%john@walton.vu>
Message-ID: <a7deab+qsb5@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter, Ivan the Russian Cabinboy wrote:
[snip lots of email information]
> Why don't a bunch of folks club together and get themselves
> a .org.uk domain?

Alas, I sit here in Norway with hardly an HPfGU-member close to me, 
os that is not really a consideration for me yet.

> Alternatively, of course, you can use Hotmail via current
> versions of Outlook Express. It's not *quite* POP3, but it's
> close.

I will say one thing about Hotmail (having had Hotmail-addresses for 
several years now):

Hotmail attracts spam.  Hotmail attracts tons of spam!  Each of my 
three ancient accounts attracts on the order of 20 spammails per day, 
about half of which does not get caught by the spamfilter.  I get 
everything from 
- offers to lick wet cats (why I would want to pay to do that is 
beyond me), 
- offers to look at small grey birds (they're common enough in 
Norway, so I'm not paying to see them)
- buy diplomas for any degree in the book, from "prestigious, 
nonaccredited institutions.  no reading, or exams, or books 
required!  Call now, your degree will be in the mail within eight 
days" (and those degrees are worth a lot, I am sure!), 
- antispam software, 
- CDs with millions of currently used email-addresses (enabling me to 
spam them, so I can release a bit of my frustration with all the spam 
I'm getting)
- Credit background and asset-searches
- DVD Copy software
- Spam for Chinese business translation-services for businesses 
trying to get a hold in China
- etc., etc. 

Best regards
Christian Stub?




From john at walton.vu  Thu Mar 21 20:12:38 2002
From: john at walton.vu (John Walton)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:12:38 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Alternative Email Solutions
In-Reply-To: <a7deab+qsb5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFEF35.D257%john@walton.vu>

pengolodh_sc wrote:

> I get everything from - offers to lick wet cats (why I would want to pay to do
> that is beyond me), - offers to look at small grey birds (they're common
> enough in Norway, so I'm not paying to see them)

Lucky you -- but not as lucky as my (female) flatmate, who frequently
receives offers to "INCREASE YOUR MANHOOD!". Indeed.

--John




From moongirlk at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 21 20:46:02 2002
From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:46:02 -0000
Subject: I had considered myself well-read until.....
In-Reply-To: <008d01c1d0c7$dac24a80$0200a8c0@shasta>
Message-ID: <a7dgqa+101sv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Aberforth's Goat" 
<Aberforths_Goat at Y...> wrote:
> Catherine wrote,
> 
> > OK - I'm upping the ante with 52 (but I was am an English
> graduate
> > and did a lot of 20th Century literature), but some of this
> really is
> > stupid, as To Kill a Mockingbird is in there three times.
> 
> Stupid perhaps - but very kind in my case! 

Me too - can I count it multiple times for all the times I've read it 
too?  Then I might approach the big numbers some of you guys are 
posting.

> James isn't as bad as Kafka, either. I started The Castle three
> times, Metamorphosis once and never finished the first chapter of
> either. Perhaps I ought to try it in translation. I have a
> greater tolerance for masochism in English.

Maybe it's because I never tried to read it in anything but English, 
but I quite liked Metamorphosis.  Of course I was in angsty teenager 
mode at the time, which may have had something to do with the way I 
responded to it.  

>(And is Proust good or another of the illegible classics?)

Well, for me any time I'm forced to even think about Proust I feel 
oppressed.  Possibly a former French lit major problem, but the idea 
of someone writing great volumes of material on nothing but himself 
and things like his unhealthy attachment to his mother, well that's 
fine, but it just doesn't seem fair that I should be forced to read 
about it.  I'd rather be locked in a room with Baudelaire.  Blech!

Perhaps if it hadn't been required reading... no, I don't think that 
would do either.  Maybe if they put out a Reader's Digest condensed 
version - took all the schlock and melted it down to a couple of 
hundred pages (imagine me rubbing my hands together in maniacal glee 
right now!).  I think he's the only author I'd ever wish that on.

But don't let me discourage you - try a page or two for yourself and 
see what you think, maybe I'm just weird.

kimberly
possibly weird, but happily Proust-free for years now




From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 21 20:52:29 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:52:29 -0000
Subject: The hate poll...why?
Message-ID: <a7dh6d+1023s@eGroups.com>

I made the "Who do you hate most?" poll because I
noticed a lot of animosity towards Cornelius Fudge and
that got me wondering if people hated him more than
Voldemort. The discussion of Voldemort seems to be
less emotional, somehow. So far, the poll seems to be
bearing out my observation, so what I want to know is,
why? Why do Fudge and the Dursleys inspire so much
anger compared to Voldemort the genocidal maniac? I'm
not suggesting that one answer is right or wrong, just
that it strikes me as an odd result.

Maybe Joel Robinson is right, and "hell works best
when it's more subtle?"

--Anna




From catlady at wicca.net  Thu Mar 21 21:17:08 2002
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:17:08 -0000
Subject: Hating characters / Owing fans / Eco
Message-ID: <a7dikk+94ha@eGroups.com>

Happy Birthdays to Witch Wanda, Laura animalsbaby, and Mary Ann's son.

Anna St Bacchus wrote:

> Why do Fudge and the Dursleys inspire so much anger compared to 
> Voldemort the genocidal maniac? 

I possibly hate Karkaroff the worst, worse even than Pettigrew, and 
there is NO REASON to think that Karkaroff did the worst things! I 
hate Karkaroff more than Lucius even tho' I believe that Lucius is 
far more evil than Karkaroff. Fudge is distasteful but the Dursleys 
aren't worth my attention.

Pippin wrote:

> I don't really understand the "obligation to the fans" thing. The
> only thing I've paid for is the merchandise I've already received.
> I don't feel like any one owes me anything in exchange for whatever
> contributions I've made to the hype and the hoopla.

I don't think it has anything to do with anyone owing us anything for 
us having increased sales by joining in the hype and hoopla. What JKR 
owes to the fan is not because the fans did something for her (except 
exist -- if Book 1 had sunk like a lead balloon so there were never 
any more volumes, i.e. there were too few readers to count, she would 
not owe the readers the rest of the series).

JKR owes the readers the rest of the series. She has set up this 
seven-volume plot full of mysteries, AND given interviews in which 
she says she can't reveal this or that information now because it's 
important in a future book. IE She PROMISED us the whole story. So 
she must try to keep her promise by giving us the whole story. She 
should have a notebook with the answers and leave it to a literary 
executor to publish if, God(s) forbid, she dies before finishing 
writing all the books.

Barb wrote:

> (but William of Baskerville is VERY derivative of Holmes),

That's not 'derivative', it's 'hommage'. In fanfic, it's a fannish 
in-joke. In literative, it's some kind of philosophical statement on 
self-referentiality. I enjoyed the book NAME OF THE ROSE, but had 
this feeling that the Library was a game world invented by a grown-up 
frpg gamemaster... The stuff us low-brows do for childish fun is 
Great Art when high-brows do it.




From virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 21 21:17:21 2002
From: virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com (virtualworldofhp)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:17:21 -0000
Subject: Death to Yahoo!
In-Reply-To: <008e01c1d0c7$dadc3b20$0200a8c0@shasta>
Message-ID: <a7dil1+jqo3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Aberforth's Goat" <Aberforths_Goat at Y...>
wrote:
Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, who thinks it's about time to
> buy a domain name with email service. And it won't be from
> Yahoo.)

Why not just use webview?  It takes probably the same amount of time
to check your e-mail, is not burden-some or unseemingly complicated,
plus you maintain the same address you've always had for free. 
Service is adequate, with no downtime issues in the reception of mail.
 I've always been quite satisfied with Yahoo!Mail.

-Megan (who uses webview for everything, so that could have something
to do with it)




From andrei31uk at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Mar 21 21:31:30 2002
From: andrei31uk at yahoo.co.uk (andrei31uk)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:31:30 -0000
Subject: Sinead
Message-ID: <a7djfi+1032d@eGroups.com>

I just wanted to bring something to the attention of the HP4GU mods, 
under Al's advice. Sinead posted a message to my Yahoogroup about 
half an hour ago (www.groups.yahoo.com/group/Boden-Smith) which 
included a long transcript from an HP4GU chat in which she was told 
in no uncertain terms to leave the fandom.

I'm not really a prominent member of the goings on here, I just 
wanted to make you aware. Sinead said in a second post:

"I'm done with this HPFGU stuff and I hope the chatscript shows you 
what the people who help run HPFGU and it's sister boards are really 
like: abusive people who like to beat on defenseless people."

Quite what she was hoping to achieve from this I don't know, but 
that's a direct quote. I want to state that this post will be deleted 
shortly; I will leave it up for a few days in case anyone wishes to 
see it. I don't need this sort of thing in my group, which has 
nothing to do with the situation.

Thanks,


-Andy 









From editor at texas.net  Thu Mar 21 21:40:58 2002
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:40:58 -0600
Subject: Update on my son
Message-ID: <00f701c1d121$174f8d60$9a7763d1@texas.net>

Okay, my son Tomek and I are back from the hospital, where we went for his
adenoids to be removed and a new set of ear tubes to be put in. While he was
under, the surgeon came out and recommended that we take his tonsils out
too, they were enormous; this was done.

She also told me that he has a sub-mucous cleft palate. Hmmm. This is the
son with the speech delay; the one the school district wants to classify as
autistic, but who can understand properly, communicates, yanks his sister's
(and mother's) chain, is concerned and goes to fix it when his little
brother's in trouble. He has a great vocabulary--when he's identifying
pictures, you need the aid to understand him--and I personally thought he
was apraxic.

So, there's lotsa speech-y and special-needs-y types on this list--any
experience with this? Have we just found yet another factor that may have
affected his speech development (like his lack of typical symptoms with ear
infections, resulting in undetected fluid therein more often than not--in
fact, there was fluid in both ears today, the surgeon told me).

How can he have been examined by so many speech people, the dentist, the
doctor, etc., and not have this noticed until he's 5 1/2? In their defense,
he does lack the bifurcated uvula.

Rrrr. My poor little hard-luck boy. Everything happens to Tomek.

--Amanda




From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Thu Mar 21 21:46:24 2002
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:46:24 -0000
Subject: Death to Yahoo!
In-Reply-To: <a7dil1+jqo3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7dkbh+pi66@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter, "Megan" wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter, "Aberforth's Goat" > wrote:
> > Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, who thinks it's about
> > time to buy a domain name with email service. And it won't
> > be from Yahoo.)
> 
> Why not just use webview?  It takes probably the same amount
> of time to check your e-mail, is not burden-some or
> unseemingly complicated, plus you maintain the same address
> you've always had for free.  

[snip]

There are several reasons to not use webview that may come into 
effect.  Many members of HPfGU, OTChatter, and other groups, have 
dial-up connections, where theya re charged by the minute for the 
time spent online, with a minimum charge for each time you log on.  A 
bundle of messages which takes one hour to read in webview, will take 
just as much time to read if downloaded to the computer, but you only 
have to stay online for a few minutes to collect it if you download 
the mail to your computer.  If you read it in webview at the groups, 
or in webmail at Yahoo!Mail, you either have to stay online the whole 
time, or you have to log on and log off and log on and log off and 
log on and log off and log on....  It is simply cheaper to download 
to the local computer in such a situation.  The possibility of 
downloading to the computer is what Yahoo!Mail is now going to take 
money for.

Also, there is may be a wish to have a local archive of the messages 
one considers important, in case the group goes down, which is a 
justified worry in many cases.

Best regards
Christian Stub?




From pollux46 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 21 22:36:23 2002
From: pollux46 at hotmail.com (charisjulia)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:36:23 -0000
Subject: Lund, Bergen, Aarhus
Message-ID: <a7dn98+tnf6@eGroups.com>

I am a student of law in the University of Athens and next year I am 
considering taking advantage of the Erasmus exchange program and 
spending 10 months or so in a foreign country. The thing is however 
that the dead line for submitting the relevant application is March 
28th (next week!) and I am still uncertain of where exactly I would 
like to go. This of course is a bit of a problem. :--) And the 
University pamphlets and websites are not making my choice any 
easier. There're all "Come here, it's amazing, it's wonderful, you'll 
have the time of your life!" I'm swamped and I kinda need something a 
bit more solid than that.

At the moment I am mostly leaning towards Lund, in Sweden. According 
to all the information brochures and my professors' reassurances it 
is an excellent institution with a good reputation. And it's old; I 
like old. What's more I downloaded some photos from the internet and 
it looks, well, simply beautiful. It isn't too big a town and quite 
in the countryside, right? 

Photographs exhibited on tourist information sites however can be 
misleading, so I thought I'd try my best to get some inside 
information if possible ;--) Is there anyone by any chance out there 
who lives or has lived in Lund or thereabouts? Anybody who's studied 
in Lund? If so could I please ask for the benefit of your experience 
and knowledge? You know-- just a short note on Life In Lund. There 
are two things in particular  that  have been worrying me: the cold 
and the dark. How long are the nights in winter? And how dark does it 
get in the day? How would this affect daily life? Would it be 
possible to say go on a hike in the countryside  in winter? Another 
thing; is it easy to get about around there? Could I visit places 
like Stockholm, or Copenhagen or maybe North Germany without much 
difficulty? And entertainment; What does Lund have to offer in the 
way of entertainment?

Errr, can't think of any other questions right now, though I know I 
have millions. Anyway, they all also apply to Bergen in Norway and 
Aarhus in Denmark, which I am thinking of submitting as my second and 
third choices.

If anyone could offer any information it would be welcome and greatly 
appreciated,

Charis Julia.  





From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 21 22:55:49 2002
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:55:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Thanks for ........
Message-ID: <20020321225549.47870.qmail@web13703.mail.yahoo.com>


A BIG THANK YOU EVERYBODY! You made me feel like a kid again! Not that I haven't stopped, remember I live with my 3 Stooges aka MUGGLES! All you mods made me feel important on my day and everybody else in March too! You all work hard to make my life and everybody on all the lists feel important, no matter if we lurk and delurk at times. My husband is still jealous that I get more emails than he does! Again, THANK YOU!

Schnoogles,

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Very Merry Band of Muggles 100%



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From bonnie at niche-associates.com  Thu Mar 21 23:13:11 2002
From: bonnie at niche-associates.com (dicentra_spectabilis_alba)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:13:11 -0000
Subject: The hate poll...why?
In-Reply-To: <a7dh6d+1023s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7dpe7+8vkh@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "saintbacchus" <saintbacchus at y...> wrote:
> I made the "Who do you hate most?" poll because I
> noticed a lot of animosity towards Cornelius Fudge and
> that got me wondering if people hated him more than
> Voldemort. The discussion of Voldemort seems to be
> less emotional, somehow. So far, the poll seems to be
> bearing out my observation, so what I want to know is,
> why? Why do Fudge and the Dursleys inspire so much
> anger compared to Voldemort the genocidal maniac? I'm
> not suggesting that one answer is right or wrong, just
> that it strikes me as an odd result.
> 
> Maybe Joel Robinson is right, and "hell works best
> when it's more subtle?"
> 
Oooh!  Ooooh!  An MST3K reference!  Which episode was that from?

--Dicentra, who keeps circulating the tapes




From ganvira at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 21 23:15:57 2002
From: ganvira at earthlink.net (Terry van Ettinger)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:15:57 -0800
Subject: From a main-list lurker
Message-ID: <020b01c1d12e$5bd0dcc0$b392cd18@charterpipeline.com>

Hello, all!
    I know I don't post really on the main list, but I just wanted you all
to know I love reading all your myriad speculations and on-going debates,
especially all you seafarers and kayakers out there (oh, it's a hover-craft
now, isn't it?  '-D)  Anyway, I am intrigued by all the great ideas you all
have.  You come up with and look into things I never noticed or didn't think
much about until you brought them up.  Thanks for shedding some new and
different light on HP!

Terry van Ettinger
Student of Potterology
E-mail: ganvira at earthlink.net
AOL IM: Kendra Mardek
MSN IM: ganvira at hotmail.com
Axe-Magic project e-mail: Axmagic at earthlink.net




From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 21 23:36:10 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:36:10 -0000
Subject: MST3k references
In-Reply-To: <a7dpe7+8vkh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7dqpa+rgb9@eGroups.com>

Dicentra wants to know:

<<
> > Maybe Joel Robinson is right, and "hell works best
> > when it's more subtle?"

Oooh!  Ooooh!  An MST3K reference!  Which episode was
that from?
>>

I don't know why I'm playing so fast and loose with the
MST3k references lately, but I can't remember which
episode this is from. *thinks* *thinks hard*

Ah-ha! It was Eegah! *clicks through DVD chapter
selection, revelling in technology*

Joel: "The day this country went self-service is the day
that Hell started to bubble up and flood the earth."

Crow: "I hate to burst your bubble, Joel, but what about
the bubonic plague? The world wars?"

Joel: "Those are big things. See, I think Hell works
better when it's a lot more subtle. I'll give you an
example. What do you think of Adolf Hitler?"

Crow: "Well, I hate him, naturally."

Joel: "Right, but what do you think of the band Styx?"

Crow: "Well, they had some decent songs, but - oh my
God, you're right!"

Oh, and I finally located the elusive Siegfriend & Roy
reference! It was in Manos! (Musta repressed the
memory.) Basically, Torgo peeps on the wife, and when
she turns around, he's gone, prompting the bots to shout
"Hallo, Siegfried!" "Hallo, Roy!" Tee hee. ^_^

I can't wait until Red Zone Cuba comes out on DVD.

--Anna




From pennylin at swbell.net  Fri Mar 22 00:05:56 2002
From: pennylin at swbell.net (plinsenmayer)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:05:56 -0000
Subject: Update on my son
In-Reply-To: <00f701c1d121$174f8d60$9a7763d1@texas.net>
Message-ID: <a7dsh4+9uuo@eGroups.com>

Hey Amanda --

I have no experience with that sort of thing... but I did want to say
that I'm glad the surgery went well & that Tomek is home recovering
nicely.  :--)

Elizabeth, btw, has just opened up my drawer with labels & such in it
& has strewn mailing labels *all over* the study.  She also hate half
of one (at least).  :--)

Penny




From keegan at mcn.org  Fri Mar 22 01:46:22 2002
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:46:22 -0800
Subject: Ack! HP/SCA crossover
In-Reply-To: <F262Cl8aii08N8yxdZj000003ce@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020321174034.00a756f0@mail.mcn.org>

I'm half tempted to make the drive south to see this...


For your diversion and entertainment.

Armored Quidditch

Master Bruce Draconarius reverently brushed the dust off the
ancient tome. Weathered letters impressed on the leather were barely
visible: "Ancient and Honorable Quidditch in Medieval Tournaments".  He
opened the book and began leafing through the pages.

Schuyler House Is proud to present the first Quidditch match in the
kingdom of Caid.  Due to the royal embargo on personalized flying
devices, this match will be played on the ground.

Rules and Equipment for Armored Quidditch:

Schuyler House will be pleased to provide the following equipment
for the game:

Bludgers, animate, quantity 2 at any given time:
Baron Jamal Damian Marcus,
Sir William Schuyler
Baron Thorvald
Earl Rorik Sverdmathr
The Function of the Bludger is to attack any of the players at any
time.  While the two Beaters are specifically designated to try to
interpose themselves between the Bludgers and the other players,
the Bludger may try to evade the Beaters.  If the Bludger succeeds in
attacking a player to the extent of landing a blow on his shield or
weapon, then that player must fight the Bludger in a one-on-one
combat.  No other player may interfere in that combat.  If the
Bludger is defeated, he must attack a member of the other team before he
can attack any player on the first team again.  If the Bludger is
victorious, then the Bludger may continue to attack the player?s
teammates or may attack the other team, as opportunity, whim,
and bloodlust indicate.  The defeated player must retire outside the eric
for 2 minutes, then may return to play.  Another player may be
substituted at this point (after the 2 min interval).

Golden Snitch, animate, quantity 1 at any given time:
Earl Gar of Loch Carron
Duke John of Holdingsford
The purpose of the Golden Snitch is to evade the players.  Each
team has a player designated as Seeker.  It is the prerogative of the
Seeker to engage and defeat the Golden Snitch.  If a Seeker
approaches the Golden Snitch closely enough that he can strike the Golden
Snitch on the shield or weapon, then the Golden Snitch must turn and fight
him one-on-one in single combat.  If the Golden Snitch is defeated,
then the game ends and the team whose Seeker was victorious
gains 150 points.  If the Seeker is defeated, then he must wait 5 minutes
outside the eric, while the Seeker of the other team chases the
Golden Snitch.

Quaffle, non-animate, quantity 1 Leather ball
The Quaffle is a leather ball (soccer ball) which may be kicked,
thrown, or carried by the players.  The movement of the Quafffle is
regulated by small-team melee rules (no killing from behind).
Teams or their members may engage each other singly or as a unit.  Only
the bearer of the Quaffle enters the Scoring Area adjacent to the
Goals.  The Quaffle must be thrown or kicked through one of the goals
from a distance of at least 10 feet.

Goals, 3 per side, at different heights.
Three hoops
Each goal with a Quaffle is worth 10 points.  After the goal is
scored, the Quijudge (referee) will put the ball into play again.
Players are absolutely forbidden from trying to throw or kick the
Bludgers through the goals, no matter how aptly they deserve it.

You provide:

Seven players who think they can excel against all others in
Armored Quidditch. Elaboration on the rules of Armored Quidditch may be
found in ?Quidditch through the Ages?.

<snip the how to get there information>

Catherine in California who stole this from her Kingdom's listserv (West)
If anyone is from Caid and goes to this, I'd love to hear how it went!


Albion Works
Furniture, Clothing, and Accesories
For the Medievalist!
www.albionworks.net



From tabouli at unite.com.au  Fri Mar 22 02:44:36 2002
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:44:36 +1100
Subject: Yahoo developments
Message-ID: <001101c1d14b$825efc60$641dddcb@price>

Christian:
> The possibility of downloading to the computer is what Yahoo!Mail is now going to take 
money for.<

(Tabouli smiles timidly at Christian and other wise people and raises a computer-illiterate hand)

Um, er, can someone please explain just what this new Yahoo! development means?  I mean, I have a dial in connection.  However, I also have my own ISP, which I pay for, and use as my primary account for receiving and reading HPFGU messages (and hence do not need to use webview).  I also have two Yahoo accounts, with lots of messages stored in them, but which I now rarely use except when I'm out of town and can't access my home account.  During these times, I use one of my Yahoo accounts to access my home computer (something about external POP servers) and get it to download messages waiting on the server into my Yahoo account, to be read online (and yes, this is expensive for someone with dial-in access).

Am I going to be affected by this, or is this new development a facility I don't use?

Tabouli.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Fri Mar 22 03:07:31 2002
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 03:07:31 -0000
Subject: Yahoo developments
In-Reply-To: <001101c1d14b$825efc60$641dddcb@price>
Message-ID: <a7e75j+vqrv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter, "Tabouli" wrote:
> Christian:
> > The possibility of downloading to the computer is what
> > Yahoo!Mail is now going to take money for.
> 
> (Tabouli smiles timidly at Christian and other wise people
> and raises a computer-illiterate hand)

Oh, I don't really consider myself computerliterate, but I know how 
to speak and write English wtih a rather thick techie-accent.

> Um, er, can someone please explain just what this new Yahoo!
> development means?  I mean, I have a dial in connection. 
> However, I also have my own ISP, which I pay for, and use
> as my primary account for receiving and reading HPFGU
> messages (and hence do not need to use webview).  I also
> have two Yahoo accounts, with lots of messages stored in
> them, but which I now rarely use except when I'm out of town
> and can't access my home account.  During these times, I use
> one of my Yahoo accounts to access my home computer
> (something about external POP servers) and get it to
> download messages waiting on the server into my Yahoo
> account, to be read online (and yes, this is expensive for
> someone with dial-in access).
> 
> Am I going to be affected by this, or is this new
> development a facility I don't use?
> 
> Tabouli.

I believe you may keep on sleeping soundly and not fret in your sleep 
over this new development.  As far as i could see, the new 
development means you have to pay to be able to read the mail you 
receive on your Yahoo!Mail-account somewhere else.  You may take note 
that it is still possible for you to set up your Yahoo!Mail-accounts 
so that you can download the messages stored there to your 
homecomputer, until April 24th - this can be done with the same 
programme you use to get the mail from the ISP-account.  It is easier 
than forwarding all the messages manually.

Best regards
Christian Stub?
Temporary nightowl who is very miffed because the computer crashed 
and sent a message it took two hours to write straight onto the 
eternal clipboards.




From catlady at wicca.net  Fri Mar 22 03:42:41 2002
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 03:42:41 -0000
Subject: Birds
Message-ID: <a7e97h+fh3o@eGroups.com>

Well before the topic of rescued birds appeared on OT, I was trying 
to think up names for the Rookwood children and had thought of 
Corva, Coronis, and Cole. Since that thread, I've added Jay and 
Maggie.




From devin.smither at yale.edu  Fri Mar 22 04:05:35 2002
From: devin.smither at yale.edu (uilnslcoap)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 04:05:35 -0000
Subject: The hate poll...why?
In-Reply-To: <a7dh6d+1023s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7eaif+qbh9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "saintbacchus" <saintbacchus at y...> wrote:
> I made the "Who do you hate most?" poll because I
> noticed a lot of animosity towards Cornelius Fudge and
> that got me wondering if people hated him more than
> Voldemort. The discussion of Voldemort seems to be
> less emotional, somehow. So far, the poll seems to be
> bearing out my observation, so what I want to know is,
> why? Why do Fudge and the Dursleys inspire so much
> anger compared to Voldemort the genocidal maniac? I'm
> not suggesting that one answer is right or wrong, just
> that it strikes me as an odd result.
> 
> Maybe Joel Robinson is right, and "hell works best
> when it's more subtle?"

You know what I think part of it is?  I think that it's possible 
people don't like the Dursleys and Fudge (I voted for old Cornelius 
myself) because their faults and weaknesses are within the normal 
range of human understanding (prejudice, cowardice, etc.).  Homicidal 
mania and megalomania is beyond our understanding.  Eddie Izzard, in 
one of his stand-ups said, "You kill one person, they put you in 
prison.  You kill 10 people, they take you to Texas, they hit you 
with a brick, that's what they do (I'm actually from Texas and this 
doesn't strike me as fair, but to continue with Mr. Izzard).  You 
kill 20 people, they put you in a hospital and stare at you through a 
little window forever.  And above that, we can't deal with it."  Mass 
murder is simply beyond our comprehension, I think.  We don't have 
the kind of hatred for it that we do these more immediate matters 
because we've (almost all of us, I hope) never encountered it.  It 
leaves us cold because there's no life experience to match it up 
with.  Whereas I can imagine a person denying the obvious truth to 
keep life seeming easy or holding a prejudice against those who are 
different, I cannot imagine a person who would seriously say, "Kill 
the spare."  Not really, anyway.

On the darker side, perhaps it's because I can actually sympathize 
with people like Fudge.  I don't think I would react as he does when 
he is told Voldemort is back, I hope I wouldn't, but I can imagine 
it.  I simply cannot imagine being Voldemort, on the other hand.  To 
not possess any moral compass, but to think of power and self-
preservation as the only guides is an utterly foreign concept.  Thus 
I react badly to Fudge because I see where he's coming from, and 
dislike him making the utterly human choice that I can imagine myself 
making.

One other thing about Fudge: it is people like him that allow 
Voldemort to flourish.  If he would wake up, Voldemort would not be 
as huge a problem as he's going to be soon.  Fudge's non-action (the 
cause) is leading to giving Voldemort an easier time (the effect).  
If we attack the disease of Fudge's denial, we reduce the symptom of 
Voldemort's rampage.  Therefore, I hate Fudge more because he holds 
the power to help stop Voldemort and does not use it.  I hate the 
cause more than the effect.  This point is less universal than the 
above ones, however, and I think is a personal matter, though others 
might share this viewpoint.

Also, Voldemort is not really making a point of denying what he is or 
what he is doing.  Fudge and the Dursleys are hiding behind money and 
respectability to a degree.  It seems more cowardly to me, and 
cowardice is high on my list of things to disrespect.  I respect 
action and forthrightness over inaction and deception (not that 
Voldemort doesn't deceive, but that's a different sort of deception 
than the one I'm talking about), and even can respect Voldy's actions 
(to the slightest, most minuscule degree) over Fudge's inactions 
insofar as taking any action is better than taking no action in my 
book.  Naturally, however, I'd rather see Voldemort eliminated than 
Fudge, and certainly, I don't want to convey the idea that I respect 
Voldemort's PRINCIPLES, but I do respect his ability to get things 
done.  I'm sure Dumbledore in some small way does as well.  Isn't it 
almost a cardinal rule to respect that which your enemy does well so 
that you aren't caught off-guard?  On these grounds, I also dislike 
Fudge more than Voldemort, but again, this is more personal and less 
universal.

Mostly, though, I think it comes down to being able to grasp the 
evils that the character you hate is cursed with.  Those with a more 
universal grasp, of course, will hate Voldemort for all the trouble 
and misery he brings.  I (and at least some others, it seems) take a 
different tack and see the more immediate, human evils as worthy of 
hate (though probably only because I can understand these evils and 
am blind to what being in a Voldemort reign of terror would actually 
be like).

Devin




From dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 22 06:02:38 2002
From: dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com (Elizabeth Sager)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:02:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Death to Yahoo!
In-Reply-To: <1016708598.2241.15831.m11@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020322060238.96087.qmail@web20402.mail.yahoo.com>

<<
Effective April 24, 2002, Yahoo! Mail will no longer
provide free
POP3 Access or Auto Mail Forwarding to Yahoo! Delivers
subscribers.

<snip>

Subscribe before April 24th and get the first year of
service for
just $19.99. That's 33% off the regular service fee of
$29.99.

Remember, if you do not subscribe by April 24, 2002,
you will no
longer be able to access your Yahoo! Mail messages by
POP or at
another email address.
>>

Pardon my French, but EXCUSE' MOI? 

I am a sixteen year old high school student...they
want *me* to pay for e-mail? 

<<
Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, who thinks it's
about time to
buy a domain name with email service. And it won't be
from
Yahoo.)
>>

Bah. *joins Mike in some grass*

Liz

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/



From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Fri Mar 22 07:08:23 2002
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:08:23 -0000
Subject: Death to Yahoo!
In-Reply-To: <20020322060238.96087.qmail@web20402.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a7el97+nio5@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter, Elizabeth Sager wrote:
[snip]
> Pardon my French, but EXCUSE' MOI? 
> 
> I am a sixteen year old high school student...they
> want *me* to pay for e-mail? 

You will still be able to access it for free on the mail.yahoo.com 
website, as has always been the case.  The payment is if you want to 
be able to view the mail in OutlookExpress, Eudora, or some similar 
programme, or to have your Yahoo!Mail-account automatically forward 
all the mail it gets to a different email-address.

Best regards
Christian Stub?




From bludger_witch at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 22 09:03:44 2002
From: bludger_witch at yahoo.com (Dinah)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:03:44 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Southwest England, be afraid...
References: <20020320171827.70858.qmail@web12005.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002301c1d180$7b72ba60$b42e07d5@Dinah>

I'm clarifying myself to say I meant that German TV stole it from the
Brits...  sorry for that one, sounded weird. And was sent about 2 days ago -
oh well.

D**


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri Mar 22 09:07:58 2002
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:07:58 -0000
Subject: Ack! HP/SCA crossover
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20020321174034.00a756f0@mail.mcn.org>
Message-ID: <a7es9e+agn2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Catherine Keegan <keegan at m...> wrote:

>The movement of the Quafffle is
> regulated by small-team melee rules (no killing from behind).

Sounds like an interesting game, though not really violent enough for 
your average English soccer fan.

David




From macloudt at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 22 09:34:38 2002
From: macloudt at hotmail.com (Mary Jennings)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:34:38 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The hate poll...why?
Message-ID: <F193g4OIVFL4ssAPNGy00016170@hotmail.com>

Anna wrote:

>I made the "Who do you hate most?" poll because I
>noticed a lot of animosity towards Cornelius Fudge and
>that got me wondering if people hated him more than
>Voldemort. The discussion of Voldemort seems to be
>less emotional, somehow. So far, the poll seems to be
>bearing out my observation, so what I want to know is,
>why? Why do Fudge and the Dursleys inspire so much
>anger compared to Voldemort the genocidal maniac? I'm
>not suggesting that one answer is right or wrong, just
>that it strikes me as an odd result.

I have given my answer to this poll--the Dursleys--as that was my 
gut-instinct reply.  Like you, I analysed my answer for a while; after all, 
Voldemort is certainly the most evil, so why didn't I vote for him?  After 
pondering for a while I decided that I don't hate Voldemort as much as the 
Dursleys because Voldemort is pure evil, period.  The Dursleys, however, are 
rotten buggers, but not purely evil.  Duddykins is loved and spoiled by his 
parents, and it is only Harry and the memory of his parents who are 
subjected to abuse and disgust.  In other words, the Dursleys are *capable* 
of being good to Harry, but choose not to be, while Voldemort is beyond any 
goodness and is therefore a hopeless case.

That's my analysis anyway.  And all before my first cup of coffee.  Wow!

Cheers!

Mary Ann
(off to put the kettle on)


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Fri Mar 22 09:17:16 2002
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:17:16 EST5EDT
Subject: Go Hoosiers!
Message-ID: <28E7882AA8@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

Just had to scream that.  Ohio State lost back in the 32 
team rank (we always suck so it wasn't a shock).  And poor 
Kent State....I had high hopes for them.

BUT GO HOOSIERS!  What a win!  And it would be awesome to 
have a Big Ten school go all the way.

*going through closet and tossing aside my OSU togs, Blue 
Jackets hockey jersey, Tennessee Titans jersey (EDDIE 
GEORGE!) and trying to find anything resembling Indiana 
State and just giving up*

Oh well.

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements


"Yes, I see your point, but as Dr. Rachel Bray said 
in her recently published paper 'Republican Themes in 
Beowulf,' Grendl truly is a respresentative of deep 
rooted hostility toward the kings attempt to centralize 
and control social issues."



From bray.262 at osu.edu  Fri Mar 22 09:22:34 2002
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:22:34 EST5EDT
Subject: oh...very bad joke...
Message-ID: <28FE080EE3@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

OK, my bad.  Kent State did win last night.  A co-worker 
was playing a mean trick on me.

And it just so happens they play Indiana State next.  I'm 
torn!!  Do I root for an Ohio team or do I root for a Big 
Ten team?

Oh well.

Should have looked at the paper BEFORE I started getting 
excited.  Now I'll have to roll it up and beat my co-worker 
senseless.

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements


"Yes, I see your point, but as Dr. Rachel Bray said 
in her recently published paper 'Republican Themes in 
Beowulf,' Grendl truly is a respresentative of deep 
rooted hostility toward the kings attempt to centralize 
and control social issues."



From s_ings at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 22 14:29:31 2002
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (S_Ings)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:29:31 -0000
Subject: Two birthdays in two days!
Message-ID: <a7ff4b+4efg@eGroups.com>

We have two birthdays to celebrate! Birthday wishes go out today to 
Martin Hooper and tomorrow Rebecca J (Anderson) Bohner.

Martin's birthday owls can be sent to mat at hooper11.freeserve.co.uk 
and Rebecca's owls will reach her at bohners at pobox.com. Birthday 
wishes can also be sent to this list.

May both your birthdays be filled with magic!

Raising a mug of butterbeer in celebration,
BirthdayElf!Sheryll




From bonnie at niche-associates.com  Fri Mar 22 15:35:30 2002
From: bonnie at niche-associates.com (dicentra_spectabilis_alba)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:35:30 -0000
Subject: MST3K references
In-Reply-To: <a7dqpa+rgb9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7fj02+3f5l@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "saintbacchus" <saintbacchus at y...> wrote:
> 
> Oh, and I finally located the elusive Siegfriend & Roy
> reference! It was in Manos! (Musta repressed the
> memory.) Basically, Torgo peeps on the wife, and when
> she turns around, he's gone, prompting the bots to shout
> "Hallo, Siegfried!" "Hallo, Roy!" Tee hee. ^_^
> 
Oh, they do the Sigfried and Roy thing all the time.  Of course, I
can't place them right now (don't have DVD) but if I remember, I'll
let you know.

> I can't wait until Red Zone Cuba comes out on DVD.

I can.

--Dicentra, who couldn't sit through it even with the riffs





From nesbitaa at purdue.edu  Fri Mar 22 15:37:04 2002
From: nesbitaa at purdue.edu (oboakk)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:37:04 -0000
Subject: oh...very bad joke...
In-Reply-To: <28FE080EE3@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <a7fj30+bqvc@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> OK, my bad.  Kent State did win last night.  A co-worker 
> was playing a mean trick on me.
> 
> And it just so happens they play Indiana State next.  I'm 
> torn!!  Do I root for an Ohio team or do I root for a Big 
> Ten team?
> 

Root for the Ohio team!!  That's what I'm doing.  I'm _extremely_ 
biased, though, since I happen to belong to the "My two favorite 
teams are Purdue and whoever is playing Indiana" club.  But Purdue 
didn't even make it into the tournament, so I have to root for all of 
IU's opponents.


Abby




From moongirlk at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 22 16:05:23 2002
From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:05:23 -0000
Subject: The hate poll...why?
In-Reply-To: <a7eaif+qbh9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7fko3+arq5@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "uilnslcoap" <devin.smither at y...> wrote:

> You know what I think part of it is?  I think that it's possible 
> people don't like the Dursleys and Fudge (I voted for old Cornelius 
> myself) because their faults and weaknesses are within the normal 
> range of human understanding (prejudice, cowardice, etc.).  
Homicidal 
> mania and megalomania is beyond our understanding.  
<snip appropriate Izzard quotation> Mass 
> murder is simply beyond our comprehension, I think.  We don't have 
> the kind of hatred for it that we do these more immediate matters 
> because we've (almost all of us, I hope) never encountered it.  It 
> leaves us cold because there's no life experience to match it up 
> with. 

I think that must be a big part of it.  For me to go on living in the 
world and dealing with other people, I pretty much *have* to believe 
that people like Voldemort are abnormal - not in the range of normal 
human behavior - which means either they are sick, or they are 
something "other", somehow not like me or anyone else I know.  So if 
they're sick (mentally ill, possessed, chemical imbalance, whatever) 
then I can fear them and want them stopped, but hating them doesn't 
seem worth the effort.  And if they're "other" somehow, then I don't 
really have a foothold from which to relate myself to them.  So 
people that can be classified as behaving within the range of normal 
human behavior are the only ones I can understand enough to love or 
hate.  We have categories for people like Fudge - he's a head-in-the-
sand politician, and for the Dursleys - social climbing hypocrites.  
The only category Voldemort fits in with is Evil Overlord, and those 
are meant to remain fictional.  They were all created for our 
entertainment, but Fudge and the Dursleys represent (in a hyperbolic 
way, perhaps) types of people that we know to be real.

 > One other thing about Fudge: it is people like him that allow 
> Voldemort to flourish.  If he would wake up, Voldemort would not be 
> as huge a problem as he's going to be soon.  Fudge's non-action 
(the 
> cause) is leading to giving Voldemort an easier time (the effect). 

I just found this online - it's from the Houston Review (apparently 
the columnist is named Kaptain?), it helps explain my view of Fudge: 

""Evil triumphs when good men do nothing," Edmund Burke once 
declared. This slogan is mouthed by idiots who would like to consider 
themselves good men (and women), but are loathe to actually doing any 
good. Well, this is your Kaptain speaking, and I am here to tell you 
that if you sit and watch evil run amok, you are its instrument every 
bit as much as [here I insert Voldemort to replace those cited]."

Now, I think the columnist has it wrong (as surely the idiots he 
refers to wouldn't point this out?), but the sentiment is just about 
right anyway - doing nothing in the face of evil is not an acceptable 
option for a "good man", so those who choose that option can no 
longer be considered good.

I think that's a major factor in the way people feel toward Fudge.  I 
don't buy the Fudge is a DE thing - I think it's much more realistic 
that he's just a coward with enough power to wreak havoc simply by 
refusing to act.  This, imo, actually makes him just as bad as a DE, 
but has a better, more realistic dramatic flair.  

> If we attack the disease of Fudge's denial, we reduce the symptom 
of 
> Voldemort's rampage.  Therefore, I hate Fudge more because he holds 
> the power to help stop Voldemort and does not use it.  I hate the 
> cause more than the effect.  This point is less universal than the 
> above ones, however, and I think is a personal matter, though 
others 
> might share this viewpoint.

I definitely agree.


Kimberly
who actually chose the Dursleys (because locking up a child and 
refusing to feed them is simply unacceptable), but would still have 
chosen Fudge over Voldemort.




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Fri Mar 22 11:10:29 2002
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:10:29 EST5EDT
Subject: oh...very bad joke...
Message-ID: <2ACADD5F50@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

>Root for the Ohio team!! That's what I'm doing. I'm 
>_extremely_ 
>biased, though, since I happen to belong to the "My two 
>favorite 
>teams are Purdue and whoever is playing Indiana" club.



HAHAHAHAA!  I belong to the "My two favorite teams are Ohio 
State and whoever is playing Michigan!" club.  I had that 
bumper sticker on my first car in high school until 
someone, literally, ripped it off.

Yes, I'm going to root for Kent.  If they lose then I'll 
have Indiana to root for in the Final Four.

But the idea of little tiny Kent State playing in the Final 
Four makes me giggle, too.  What a great Cinderella story!

Being a Buckeye fan means I always have to find other teams 
to be happy for.  :-)

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements


"Yes, I see your point, but as Dr. Rachel Bray said 
in her recently published paper 'Republican Themes in 
Beowulf,' Grendl truly is a respresentative of deep 
rooted hostility toward the kings attempt to centralize 
and control social issues."



From nesbitaa at purdue.edu  Fri Mar 22 20:02:01 2002
From: nesbitaa at purdue.edu (oboakk)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:02:01 -0000
Subject: basketball was: Re: oh...very bad joke...
In-Reply-To: <2ACADD5F50@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <a7g2jp+adbj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Rachel Bray" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> >Root for the Ohio team!! That's what I'm doing. I'm 
> >_extremely_ 
> >biased, though, since I happen to belong to the "My two 
> >favorite 
> >teams are Purdue and whoever is playing Indiana" club.
> 
> 
> 
> HAHAHAHAA!  I belong to the "My two favorite teams are Ohio 
> State and whoever is playing Michigan!" club.  I had that 
> bumper sticker on my first car in high school until 
> someone, literally, ripped it off.
> 
> Yes, I'm going to root for Kent.  If they lose then I'll 
> have Indiana to root for in the Final Four.
> 
> But the idea of little tiny Kent State playing in the Final 
> Four makes me giggle, too.  What a great Cinderella story!
> 

Like the greatest basketball (maybe even sports in general) movie 
ever made: "Hoosiers"!!  I think my family owns multiple copies of 
that video...it's a great movie, but it's also our own little brush 
with fame: some of my relatives were extras in it!  The main street 
of the little town where my grandparents live was used as the main 
street of 'Hickory, Indiana', and I went to a party once at one of 
the fieldhouses they filmed in.  That movie will definitely put 
anyone in a 'March Madness' mood.  Maybe I'll watch this afternoon.

Abby
P.S. None of my friends will watch 'Hoosiers' with me anymore because 
I point and scream something like "Look, it's Uncle Bob, up in the 
stands!" whenever I see someone I know.





From virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 22 21:14:39 2002
From: virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com (virtualworldofhp)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:14:39 -0000
Subject: basketball was: Re: oh...very bad joke...
In-Reply-To: <a7g2jp+adbj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7g6rv+p379@eGroups.com>

> > 
> > Yes, I'm going to root for Kent.  If they lose then I'll 
> > have Indiana to root for in the Final Four.
> > 
> > But the idea of little tiny Kent State playing in the Final 
> > Four makes me giggle, too.  What a great Cinderella story!


Woooooooooooooooooooo!!!  Go Hoosiers!  I love the idea that Kent St.
won because that actually gives IU a CHANCE (knock on wood) at the
Final Four.  You are talking to a March Madness FIEND here.  I
practically worship those brackets & Cinderella teams are the ones we
fans scream our hearts out for.  You can't imagine my glee when both
UCLA AND Duke lost last night!!  I have always held personal animosity
towards those teams that have about 20 different Championship
titles--let some other people win for once!  Kent St. vs Indiana is a
dream match-up because if Indiana wins, that'll be awesome being from
a die-hard Hoosier family, but if Kent St. pulls the upset...a number
10 seed in the Final Four?  Sweet!

-Megan (imagining a dream year of Kentucky, Indiana, and Texas ALL in
the finals...the 3 she started out rooting for)




From saitaina at wizzards.net  Fri Mar 22 22:14:28 2002
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:14:28 -0800
Subject: Leaving (slightly rantish, be warned)
Message-ID: <021e01c1d1ee$f0289e60$dd4e28d1@oemcomputer>

That's it. I quit. I'm done. I'm tired of this war and it's over. This little fighter is packing her bags and going home. The fandom I once loved it turning into a war ground and I'm done with it. I will not stand and listen to any more crap from either/any side. I don't care who you are but I won't hear it.

Who would have though a children's book could provoke such...idiotic measures. Hacking,flaming, stupid fights....all of it is childish and pathetic and I'm through. I left the BTVS fandom when it became the American's Vs everyone else and now I leave Harry Potter for it being us against everyone else. It's sad. I made a lot of good friends here...no I haven't actually. I'm still invisible but at least here I can pretend. 

I had hopped that this would be the fandom I wouldn't leave. That I wouldn't get sick of the way everyone treated each other but maybe I'm just sick of the whole human race right now. If this is how we act to those we like...how will we respond to those we don't?

I will of course, continue to write fiction (I'm not leaving the slash community who strangely, has not real problems as of yet) and I will fulfil my duties as an elf to HPfGU but beyond that, I'm not sure how much stomach I can lend to doing anything else.

Well now that I've done my "I'm leaving bit" let me say my piece before I go. The Harry Potter fandom is filled with petty, idiotic, stuck up people who would do better standing in front of a mirror making love to themselves then to be online. It's also filled with warm, funny, sweet and caring people whom I will cherish knowing. I will miss a great deal more of you then I wish to but the time as come for me to save my bacon before it gets fried. I have debated this for a long time and the time has come when the  cons are starting to outweigh the pros.  I don't want to leave, not really but I cannot do this.  It's that simple.  I cannot watch as this fandom tears itself it itsy bitsy little pieces.

So to all of those I consider a friend (I actually had a list here but I kept forgetting names so take a wild guess if you're one), I will miss you. And who knows, I might see you again, in that far distant space known as chat.

To everyone else, go suck my big toe...and mind the polish it's still wet. 



Amanda AKA Saitaina Angelus Moricia



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 22 22:24:42 2002
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (jenP_97)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:24:42 -0000
Subject: basketball was: Re: oh...very bad joke...
In-Reply-To: <a7g6rv+p379@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7gava+54cj@eGroups.com>

--- Megan wrote about how her teams are doing well and how she hopes
IU does well in the next couple of rounds, esp. against Kent State...

*sigh*

I am glad (as glad as I can be in the current situation, that is) that
Kent State won, and I'm ecstatic (sp) that Indiana beat Duke (even
though hubby is a Purdue alum) because (no offense, Duke fans), I am
thoroughly sick of all the hype that they seem to generate. 
Especially by Dick Vitale.  I'm not surprised that UCLA lost - and
while aninner part of me was rooting against them (being from a
competing Pac-10 school), my hubby went to grad school there, so I 
was half-heartedly hoping they'd win.

But Arizona lost.

By 21 points.

Breaks my heart.  Mean ol' Oklahoma.  Poor little Luke Walton and
Jason Gardner...

Oh well.  At least it's a team made up of mostly freshman.  Let's hope
they don't all pull a Mike Bibby and go pro this year.

Jen, the downcast (who is very glad she didn't get a wave of school
spirit last night and make the trek up to the Bay Area Alumni
"tailgate party" up in San Jose last night.  I mean, if I was snappy
after going to a local pizza joint and seeing us lose, imagine if I
had to drive home 4+ hours afterwards!!)




From dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 22 22:44:47 2002
From: dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com (Elizabeth Sager)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:44:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Animosity towards Fudge
In-Reply-To: <1016755562.2040.20319.m4@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020322224447.81229.qmail@web20406.mail.yahoo.com>

Anna:
<<
I made the "Who do you hate most?" poll because I
noticed a lot of animosity towards Cornelius Fudge and
that got me wondering if people hated him more than
Voldemort. The discussion of Voldemort seems to be
less emotional, somehow. So far, the poll seems to be
bearing out my observation, so what I want to know is,
why? Why do Fudge and the Dursleys inspire so much
anger compared to Voldemort the genocidal maniac? I'm
not suggesting that one answer is right or wrong, just
that it strikes me as an odd result.
>>

Well, I don't really hate the Dursleys. Sure, there
are moments where I'd like to give them a good crack
upside the head for things they say or do (my big beef
is with Vernon's sister Marge. "If there's something
wrong with the bitch, there'll be something wrong with
the pup!"), but for the most part their blatant
ignorance is something that I find humorous.

I *do* hate Fudge however. I don't think he is evil,
but I do not like him becuase he is everything I hate
about humans put into one character. I never got the
impression that he was supposed to be liked at all. I
could tirade for hours on what I don't like about
Fudge, but what I dislike the most is that he refuses
to look past the end of his nose. He's an ostrich who
wants to hide his head in the sand and let the danger
pass, instead of stand up and do his part to protect
people and defeat the evil and punish the guilty. IMO,
he is as much a genocid-ist (or whatever you say) as
Voldemort. Instead of checking out stories, even if
they are farfetched, he chortles and moves on to his
next appointment. 

See, I *like* Voldemort. He is a good villain. He's
done detestable things that make your stomach turn and
make your blood boil. And for the most part, he's
smart. Tom 'Phoenix-Tears-I-Forgot' Riddle was a
younger version of him, so I don't know if that's
understandable or not. But Voldemort is *not* a stupid
villain. His downfall is going to be in his arrogance
at that he thinks he can't be destroyed. 

Liz (pondering how to solve the e-mail address situation)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/



From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 22 22:55:46 2002
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:55:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Update on my son
In-Reply-To: <00f701c1d121$174f8d60$9a7763d1@texas.net>
Message-ID: <20020322225546.71586.qmail@web13709.mail.yahoo.com>


 
  Amanda <editor at texas.net> wrote: 
Okay, my son Tomek and I are back from the hospital, where we went for his
adenoids to be removed and a new set of ear tubes to be put in. While he was
under, the surgeon came out and recommended that we take his tonsils out
too, they were enormous; this was done.


Amanda, happy to know your son is on the mend. How are you holding up? I know what your going through, been through it many times with William in the hospital. Will be emailing you off list too. Very happy he is doing well, kids bounce back, he will love the popcicles for his throat! Well, I hope he can have them! Take care and I'm sure many experts on the list can give you some answers about his speech. Here for you if you need to vent off list.

Schnoogles,

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Very Merry Band of Muggles 100%  



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 22 23:04:16 2002
From: dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com (Elizabeth Sager)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:04:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Death to Yahoo!
In-Reply-To: <1016795668.1373.9416.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020322230416.4831.qmail@web20410.mail.yahoo.com>

Christian:
<<
You will still be able to access it for free on the
mail.yahoo.com website, as has always been the case. 
The payment is if you want to be able to view the mail
in OutlookExpress, Eudora, or some similar programme,
or to have your Yahoo!Mail-account automatically
forward all the mail it gets to a different
email-address.
>>

THANK YOU SO MUCH. I speak techno just about as well
as I speak French, and that's just enough to get
arrested. :D You have cleared up some very dense and
unneeded stress. *runs off dancing*

Liz (who is thankful she doesn't have to figure out
the e-mail problem anymore...but is still outraged for
those who do)

Best regards
Christian Stub


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/



From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 23 00:06:45 2002
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:06:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Two birthdays in two days!
In-Reply-To: <a7ff4b+4efg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020323000645.89471.qmail@web13706.mail.yahoo.com>


 
  S_Ings <s_ings at yahoo.com> wrote: 
We have two birthdays to celebrate! Birthday wishes go out today to 
Martin Hooper and tomorrow Rebecca J (Anderson) Bohner.



All right! More to party with in March! Happy Birthday to Martin and Rebecca! A good thing to toast about too! May you both get all your wishes on your Birthdays and party harty! I'm still getting Birthday wishes and enjoying it even after my Birthday with my boys! Enjoy your special days!

Schnoogles,

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Very Merry Band of Muggles 100%



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 23 00:17:39 2002
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:17:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: MST3K references
In-Reply-To: <a7fj02+3f5l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020323001739.79982.qmail@web13709.mail.yahoo.com>


 
  dicentra_spectabilis_alba <bonnie at niche-associates.com> wrote: 
--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "saintbacchus" <saintbacchus at y...> wrote:
> 
, Torgo peeps on the wife, and when
> she turns around, he's gone, prompting the bots to shout
> "Hallo, Siegfried!" "Hallo, Roy!" Tee hee. ^_^

 

MST3K, we love that show! Watch it every Saturday morning on the SciFi Channel! My husband thought we were crazy watching it because they talk through the movie! My son William because of his ADD, talks through whatever we watch. So, we live with the real situation around here, so I told my husband he should feel at home then! My boys love Tom Servo and Crow! We finally got him hooked onto the show! Just wanting to add to one of our favorite shows! My son is calling me,"Movie Sign!" we are watching Red Dwarf Videos.

Schnoogles,

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Very Merry Band of Muggles 100%



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 23 01:27:31 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:27:31 -0000
Subject: MST3K references
In-Reply-To: <20020323001739.79982.qmail@web13709.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a7glm3+of49@eGroups.com>

Dicentra - I must admit that I've only seen Red Zone
Cuba once, but I love the whole Coleman Francis
trilogy. My favorite is The Beast of Yucca Flats. How
you can get bored when the whole time the narrator is
interrupting with random statements like "Flag on the
moon. How'd it get there?" ^_^ The riffing is
excellent on all three. Granted, there have been
better (Deathstalker, Space Mutiny, Jack Frost, The
Amazing Colossal Man, Cave Dwellers...), but the
Coleman Francis ones are in my next tier of faves.
They get bonus points for causing the 'bots to
reference David Lynch, too. ^_^

OTOH, when I watched them with my boyfriend, all on
separate nights, he fell asleep in the middle of ALL
THREE. Not that that detracts from the plots,
particularly. =P


Wanda the Witch writes:
<<
MST3K, we love that show! Watch it every Saturday
morning on the SciFi Channel! My husband thought we
were crazy watching it because they talk through the
movie! My son William because of his ADD, talks
through whatever we watch. So, we live with the real
situation around here, so I told my husband he
should feel at home then! My boys love Tom Servo and
Crow! We finally got him hooked onto the show! Just
wanting to add to one of our favorite shows! My son
is calling me,"Movie Sign!" we are watching Red Dwarf
Videos.
>>

Hee hee! I love Red Dwarf, too! Rimmer is The Man. I
just downloaded the American pilot, and...well, let's
just say it's a good thing it didn't air. Dwarfers
the world over would have mutinied. Lister, suave and
bold?? Say it ain't so!

But anyway, I'm a big fan and I'll be first in line if
RD is ever released on DVD. It'll go right next to the
Twin Peaks box set. *G*

Oh, er, and if I may be so bold as to plug my own site,
check out http://devoted.to/arnoldrimmer for my
tribute to that smeggiest of smegheads! 

--Anna




From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 23 01:32:53 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:32:53 -0000
Subject: The hate poll...why?
In-Reply-To: <a7dh6d+1023s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7gm05+3o0p@eGroups.com>

Just to let everyone know, I'm reading your answers
even though I'm not replying. They're very interesting!
I think I agree with Devin, who said that Voldemort is
kind of off the scale of human understanding, and
therefore difficult to hate. Everyone's responses have
been insightful, though. Keep 'em comin', if you please!

Cheers!
--Anna




From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Mar 23 04:56:45 2002
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 04:56:45 -0000
Subject: Happy.... Sad
Message-ID: <a7h1ud+q363@eGroups.com>

Happy birthday today to Martin Hooper.

Happy birthday tomorrow to Rebecca the great writer.

Sniffles and sad moans about Saitaina leaving us.




From saitaina at wizzards.net  Sat Mar 23 09:17:47 2002
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:17:47 -0800
Subject: Corrections to my Leaving post (non rantish!)
References: <a7h1ud+q363@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1d24c$6321ee00$0f4e28d1@oemcomputer>

I am sending this to the  list  for reasons that I've already said something to three people today and I'm saving any more trouble for us by saying it here.  I am NOT leaving for reasons due to the recent mess.  I am leaving (er, sorta, as you can tell I'm still here here just not in the fandom) because I'm tired of EVERYTHING  the teenagers who have nothing better to do then annoy people, the idiots, the trolls, the goats (not Mike!) the feeling of being outside the fandom even while in it and for more personal reasons such as a severe feeling of invisibility in this group and within the fandom itself.  

I WILL be staying on as an elf  and will be staying in the fandom as a writer.  I will more likely then not show up in chat just because I cannot resist bugging you guys.   You won't see me around most boards and the only lists I'm probably going to be a member of is mine and the fiction related ones.  This doesn't mean a great change in my behavior as a barley posted anyway just something official.  Sort of a last stand thing to say that I'm tired of it all.  I felt it needed to be said before I went.  

I think I alienated some people with my last post and would like to take a moment to correct it.   Very little of my ranting was meant to this group.  Yes I feel as though I'm invisible and not replied to or responded to as I would have liked but those are my feelings.  Overall I have NOTHING against this group and and glad to have been, and still be in a way, a part of it.  I will always, ALWAYS care about this group and the people inside it weather we have parted ways before this or not.  I have spent over a year here and am saddened it had come down to this.  I have always said this but you guys helped me in a time that was hard for me by just, being there.  I will love you and cherish you and no matter what storms may come, there will always be those muggy summer days when I could think of nothing else but what was going on in our group.  I was here before OT-Chatter, before (and during) the short-lived food group and enjoyed more Sunday chats then a good girl should admit.  :o)  I might return when book five comes out  (please dear lord let it be soon!  I'm starting to buy HP Band-Aids and make the little Hermione talk to the little harry for cripes sake!) but until then I'm taking a break.  A well needed one.

Saitaina
Ooo, look, my second longest post since becoming a member!

PS: I'm not adverse to any of you contacting me so email me, IM me, YM me at you're leisure.  I'm usually on and bored out of my skull.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From saitaina at wizzards.net  Sat Mar 23 09:17:47 2002
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:17:47 -0800
Subject: Corrections to my Leaving post (non rantish!)
References: <a7h1ud+q363@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1d24c$717190a0$0f4e28d1@oemcomputer>

I am sending this to the  list  for reasons that I've already said something to three people today and I'm saving any more trouble for us by saying it here.  I am NOT leaving for reasons due to the recent mess.  I am leaving (er, sorta, as you can tell I'm still here here just not in the fandom) because I'm tired of EVERYTHING  the teenagers who have nothing better to do then annoy people, the idiots, the trolls, the goats (not Mike!) the feeling of being outside the fandom even while in it and for more personal reasons such as a severe feeling of invisibility in this group and within the fandom itself.  

I WILL be staying on as an elf  and will be staying in the fandom as a writer.  I will more likely then not show up in chat just because I cannot resist bugging you guys.   You won't see me around most boards and the only lists I'm probably going to be a member of is mine and the fiction related ones.  This doesn't mean a great change in my behavior as a barley posted anyway just something official.  Sort of a last stand thing to say that I'm tired of it all.  I felt it needed to be said before I went.  

I think I alienated some people with my last post and would like to take a moment to correct it.   Very little of my ranting was meant to this group.  Yes I feel as though I'm invisible and not replied to or responded to as I would have liked but those are my feelings.  Overall I have NOTHING against this group and and glad to have been, and still be in a way, a part of it.  I will always, ALWAYS care about this group and the people inside it weather we have parted ways before this or not.  I have spent over a year here and am saddened it had come down to this.  I have always said this but you guys helped me in a time that was hard for me by just, being there.  I will love you and cherish you and no matter what storms may come, there will always be those muggy summer days when I could think of nothing else but what was going on in our group.  I was here before OT-Chatter, before (and during) the short-lived food group and enjoyed more Sunday chats then a good girl should admit.  :o)  I might return when book five comes out  (please dear lord let it be soon!  I'm starting to buy HP Band-Aids and make the little Hermione talk to the little harry for cripes sake!) but until then I'm taking a break.  A well needed one.

Saitaina
Ooo, look, my second longest post since becoming a member!

PS: I'm not adverse to any of you contacting me so email me, IM me, YM me at you're leisure.  I'm usually on and bored out of my skull.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 24 00:20:10 2002
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:20:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Red Dwarf
In-Reply-To: <a7glm3+of49@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020324002010.98287.qmail@web13707.mail.yahoo.com>



  saintbacchus <saintbacchus at yahoo.com> wrote: 

But anyway, I'm a big fan and I'll be first in line if
RD is ever released on DVD. It'll go right next to the
Twin Peaks box set. *G*

Anna, the boys and I did check out your site and have it bookmarked! Also the Uk site mentioned the production of the movie! It is going to be released in December around Christmas this year! I hope it picks up where series VIII ended. Lister, Cat, and Kryton, and of course Chrissie, went through the mirror. A real cliff hanger! There might be DVD's of the shows that can be ordered through the UK. Just go to www.reddwarf.co.uk and you'll read about he movie too.  I know they have the tapes and I think dvd's. You'll know when you go to the site.

Schnoogles,

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Very Merry Band of Muggles 100%



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Mar 24 07:35:37 2002
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 07:35:37 -0000
Subject: remember when this was a FOOD list?
Message-ID: <a7jvk9+sga1@eGroups.com>

Help me to think of wonderful things that are tan-colored, such as 
Caillard & Bowser's butterscotch hard candy... and chewy cubes of 
caramel... Is there an exotic French name for a delicious caramel 
sauce that color? A liquor that color? What color do people think a 
cafe au lait mousse would be?




From john at walton.vu  Sun Mar 24 13:39:31 2002
From: john at walton.vu (John Walton)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:39:31 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] remember when this was a FOOD list?
In-Reply-To: <a7jvk9+sga1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B8C38793.D627%john@walton.vu>

catlady_de_los_angeles wrote:

> Help me to think of wonderful things that are tan-colored, such as
> Caillard & Bowser's butterscotch hard candy... and chewy cubes of
> caramel... Is there an exotic French name for a delicious caramel
> sauce that color? A liquor that color? What color do people think a
> cafe au lait mousse would be?

Well, if you very carefully caramelised the top of a cr?me brul?e, that
would be tan. Also if you made onion soup where the onions were very lightly
caramelised before adding the stock (and use vegetable stock as it's less
brown than beef). Coffee-flavoured anything would be light brown -- perhaps
try a mocha mousse? Or, something I fell in love with recently, a coffee and
white chocolate mousse. Really scrummy.

As for tan alcohol, there's always bourbon and (Scotch) whiskey, Amaretto,
cognac, armagnac, creme de cacao, Kahlua (coffee-flavored), Sheridan's (if
you mix it :D). Cream sherry is also pale brown.

HTH!

--John

____________________________________________

"People see you sneaking out of my bedroom at 2am, they might get the wrong
idea."
"Thanks," said Harry, and took the cloak.
"On the other hand, it could only enhance my reputation as a major stud,"
added Draco cheerfully.
--Draco Veritas, Chapter 3, by Cassandra Claire, at www.fictionalley.org

John Walton || john at walton.vu
____________________________________________




From hyria at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 24 18:20:08 2002
From: hyria at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Incitata?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:20:08 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Long absence ... does chat still happen on Sunday evening?
Message-ID: <20020324182008.81835.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com>

It's been so long since I've had time/internet access
but if there is still a Sunday evening chat I'd love
to know about it.

Sorry for such a short message but time and cash are
shot.

Take care

Cat
Hyria
Incitata
etc

=====
~Incitata~

"Cunning. Charming. Devastatingly Slytherin."

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com



From landers at email.unc.edu  Sun Mar 24 18:54:57 2002
From: landers at email.unc.edu (Betty)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:54:57 -0500
Subject: [Fwd: [H_PBDFA] Yahoo's charges]
Message-ID: <3C9E2100.75D1A203@email.unc.edu>

Advance apologies if this is off topic for some of these groups, and
more apologies for the massive cross-post.  Apparently, yahoo is about
to start charging for pop access to email, etc.  Below is a petition to
ask them to reconsider these charges and a link for you to follow if you
want to sign it.	

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [H_PBDFA] Yahoo's charges
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:18:07 -0800 (PST)
From: courtney <riant_girl at yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Harry_PotterBookDiscussionForAdults at yahoogroups.com
To: * HP book discussion
<Harry_PotterBookDiscussionForAdults at yahoogroups.com>

In light of the recent announcement to begin charging
for POP access 
to Yahoo! email addresses, a petition has been put
together to 
protest the action.

Here is the full text of the petition followed by a
link where you 
can go to sign it:


We, the undersigned, are signing this petition to
protest the new 
Yahoo pricing structure in relation to several of the
services most 
popular features such as Yahoo Groups, Yahoo Mail, and
GeoCities. 
While we agree and understand that it is the primary
goal of any 
company, including Yahoo, to expand their services and
to make money, 
we feel that Yahoo is deliberately targeting users who
have no choice 
or option in using Yahoo services. Yahoo Clubs, Yahoo
Groups, Yahoo 
Mail, and GeoCities are all services that, once signed
up for and 
established, are very difficult and extremely
inconvenient to migrate 
from Yahoo to another service. We believe that Yahoo
is deliberately 
targeting these users in total disregard to our needs
and desires. 

We would like to strongly encourage the management of
Yahoo, Inc to 
reconsider their pricing structure for these services
and consider 
continuing the current structure of Yahoo as supported
primarily by 
advertising. 

http://www.petitiononline.com/11213/petition.html

=====
Frogs have it easy, they can eat what bugs them.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Harry_PotterBookDiscussionForAdults-unsubscribe at egroups.com

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



From landers at email.unc.edu  Sun Mar 24 22:44:49 2002
From: landers at email.unc.edu (Betty)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:44:49 -0500
Subject: [Pensieve] [Fwd: [H_PBDFA] Yahoo's charges]
References: <3C9E2100.75D1A203@email.unc.edu>
Message-ID: <3C9E56E0.163BB16B@email.unc.edu>

This looks like another hoax.  Sorry for forwarding it.  I hadn't been
able to find any proof but I had wondered if anyone else knew anything
about it.

Betty wrote:
> 
> Advance apologies if this is off topic for some of these groups, and
> more apologies for the massive cross-post.  Apparently, yahoo is about
> to start charging for pop access to email, etc.  Below is a petition to
> ask them to reconsider these charges and a link for you to follow if you
> want to sign it.
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [H_PBDFA] Yahoo's charges
> Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:18:07 -0800 (PST)
> From: courtney <riant_girl at yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: Harry_PotterBookDiscussionForAdults at yahoogroups.com
> To: * HP book discussion
> <Harry_PotterBookDiscussionForAdults at yahoogroups.com>
> 
> In light of the recent announcement to begin charging
> for POP access
> to Yahoo! email addresses, a petition has been put
> together to
> protest the action.
> 
> Here is the full text of the petition followed by a
> link where you
> can go to sign it:
> 
> We, the undersigned, are signing this petition to
> protest the new
> Yahoo pricing structure in relation to several of the
> services most
> popular features such as Yahoo Groups, Yahoo Mail, and
> GeoCities.
> While we agree and understand that it is the primary
> goal of any
> company, including Yahoo, to expand their services and
> to make money,
> we feel that Yahoo is deliberately targeting users who
> have no choice
> or option in using Yahoo services. Yahoo Clubs, Yahoo
> Groups, Yahoo
> Mail, and GeoCities are all services that, once signed
> up for and
> established, are very difficult and extremely
> inconvenient to migrate
> from Yahoo to another service. We believe that Yahoo
> is deliberately
> targeting these users in total disregard to our needs
> and desires.
> 
> We would like to strongly encourage the management of
> Yahoo, Inc to
> reconsider their pricing structure for these services
> and consider
> continuing the current structure of Yahoo as supported
> primarily by
> advertising.
> 
> http://www.petitiononline.com/11213/petition.html
> 
> =====
> Frogs have it easy, they can eat what bugs them.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
> http://movies.yahoo.com/
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Harry_PotterBookDiscussionForAdults-unsubscribe at egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pensieve-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- 
Now, you two--this year, you behave yourselves.  If I get one more owl
telling me you've--you've blown up a toilet or--"
"Blown up a toilet?  We've never blown up a toilet.
"Great idea, though, Thanks, mom."        
Molly, Fred and George Weasley: Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone,
chapter 6



From NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com  Mon Mar 25 01:13:12 2002
From: NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com (NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 20:13:12 EST
Subject: Academy Awards
Message-ID: <17b.5a1cb66.29cfd3a8@aol.com>

The Oscars are about to be presented in the USA.  HP is only up for three 
awards...Musical Score, Art Direction and Costume Design.  Maggie Smith is up 
for an award, but for a different movie.  Lets hope we win ONE and can read 
'Academy Award Winning Movie' on the upcoming DVD!
~shahara in wi


shahara lefay * pagan priestess 
^^serendipitously smitten with severus snape^^
**lurid lover to lucius** 
~hereditery helpmate for hagrid~ 
icq   # 152784873



From heidit at netbox.com  Mon Mar 25 01:45:53 2002
From: heidit at netbox.com (heidit at netbox.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 20:45:53 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: [Pensieve] [Fwd: [H_PBDFA] Yahoo's charges]
In-Reply-To: 3fbc
Message-ID: <16600080.2090017155@imcingular.com>

This is actually not a hoax - at least the charging isn't - although I don't know about the petition. If you're just going to use your account via webview, it doesn't change anything for you *now*.

Heidi Tandy
Follow me to FictionAlley - Harry Potter fanfics of all shapes, sizes and ships - 7 sickles an ounce
http://www.FictionAlley.org

----Original Message----

From: Betty <landers at email.unc.edu>
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: [Pensieve] [Fwd: [H_PBDFA] Yahoo's charges]
Real-To:  Betty <landers at email.unc.edu>
Real-Cc:  H2Ravenclaw_Common_Room <H2Ravenclaw_Common_Room at yahoogroups.com>,
	Hogwarts2 <Hogwarts2 at yahoogroups.com>,
	HPFGU-Announcements <HPFGU-Announcements at yahoogroups.com>,
	"HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com" <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>,
	Lord_Of_The_rings_87 <lord_of_the_rings_87 at yahoogroups.com>,
	LupinLovers <LupinLovers at yahoogroups.com>,
	sirius_black_inc <sirius_black_inc at yahoogroups.com>

This looks like another hoax.  Sorry for forwarding it.  I hadn't been
able to find any proof but I had wondered if anyone else knew anything
about it.

Betty wrote:
>
> Advance apologies if this is off topic for some of these groups, and
> more apologies for the massive cross-post.  Apparently, yahoo is about
> to start charging for pop access to email, etc.  Below is a petition to
> ask them to reconsider these charges and a link for you to follow if you
> want to sign it.
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [H_PBDFA] Yahoo's charges
> Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:18:07 -0800 (PST)
> From: courtney <riant_girl at yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: Harry_PotterBookDiscussionForAdults at yahoogroups.com
> To: * HP book discussion
> <Harry_PotterBookDiscussionForAdults at yahoogroups.com>
>
> In light of the recent announcement to begin charging
> for POP access
> to Yahoo! email addresses, a petition has been put
> together to
> protest the action.
>
> Here is the full text of the petition followed by a
> link where you
> can go to sign it:
>
> We, the undersigned, are signing this petition to
> protest the new
> Yahoo pricing structure in relation to several of the
> services most
> popular features such as Yahoo Groups, Yahoo Mail, and
> GeoCities.
> While we agree and understand that it is the primary
> goal of any
> company, including Yahoo, to expand their services and
> to make money,
> we feel that Yahoo is deliberately targeting users who
> have no choice
> or option in using Yahoo services. Yahoo Clubs, Yahoo
> Groups, Yahoo
> Mail, and GeoCities are all services that, once signed
> up for and
> established, are very difficult and extremely
> inconvenient to migrate
> from Yahoo to another service. We believe that Yahoo
> is deliberately
> targeting these users in total disregard to our needs
> and desires.
>
> We would like to strongly encourage the management of
> Yahoo, Inc to
> reconsider their pricing structure for these services
> and consider
> continuing the current structure of Yahoo as supported
> primarily by
> advertising.
>
> http://www.petitiononline.com/11213/petition.html
>
> =====
> Frogs have it easy, they can eat what bugs them.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
> http://movies.yahoo.com/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Harry_PotterBookDiscussionForAdults-unsubscribe at egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pensieve-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Now, you two--this year, you behave yourselves.  If I get one more owl
telling me you've--you've blown up a toilet or--"
"Blown up a toilet?  We've never blown up a toilet.
"Great idea, though, Thanks, mom."
Molly, Fred and George Weasley: Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone,
chapter 6


________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/

Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying!

Is your message...
An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com

Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
____________________________________________________________


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





From NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com  Mon Mar 25 04:00:24 2002
From: NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com (shahara9)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 04:00:24 -0000
Subject: Academy Awards
In-Reply-To: <17b.5a1cb66.29cfd3a8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a7m7co+dn9d@eGroups.com>


Well, darn it, HP didn't win a thing!  But LoTR won several.  I can't 
believe Moulin Rough won for Costume...gosh, I myself could outfit a 
cast of sleezies from our local thrift shop, it was hardly is an award 
winnng effort!  And LoTR got best musical score...I hadn't heard that 
soundtrack, was it good?  (My kids didn't remember and I didn't want 
to sit thru the movie with a baby!) I thought surly HP would win...I 
adored John Williams music, so very magical and transportive.
Grrr...maybe next year with Chamber of Secrets!
~s




From Aegeus86 at aol.com  Mon Mar 25 04:14:19 2002
From: Aegeus86 at aol.com (Aegeus86 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:14:19 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Academy Awards
Message-ID: <13d.b86dae3.29cffe1b@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/25/2002 12:01:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com writes:


> And LoTR got best musical score...I hadn't heard that 
> soundtrack, was it good?  (My kids didn't remember and I didn't want 
> to sit thru the movie with a baby!) I thought surly HP would win...I 
> adored John Williams music, so very magical and transportive.
> Grrr...maybe next year with Chamber of Secrets!

The LOTR soundtrack was amazing, and IMHO better than the John Williams 
stuff.  No offense to him, his stuff is great, but it is so much the same in 
each movie that you could easily take the HP music and stick it into StarWars 
or ET and it wouldn't be out of place (same the other way around, too).

~Aegeus

First Mate, SS Ares
Writer of Haiku to inspire fic authors
Head of the "Get Keith to Like Draco and Read Snitch!" committee
Proud H/H and H/D shipper!










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Mar 25 04:15:58 2002
From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 04:15:58 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Academy Awards
References: <a7m7co+dn9d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <003401c1d3b3$c5200020$da0286d9@monica>

The score's not bad. I hope May it Be wins the best song. The rest is good but that one piece is outstanding.

K
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: shahara9 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 4:00 AM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Academy Awards



  Well, darn it, HP didn't win a thing!  But LoTR won several.  I can't 
  believe Moulin Rough won for Costume...gosh, I myself could outfit a 
  cast of sleezies from our local thrift shop, it was hardly is an award 
  winnng effort!  And LoTR got best musical score...I hadn't heard that 
  soundtrack, was it good?  (My kids didn't remember and I didn't want 
  to sit thru the movie with a baby!) I thought surly HP would win...I 
  adored John Williams music, so very magical and transportive.
  Grrr...maybe next year with Chamber of Secrets!
  ~s


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
              ADVERTISEMENT
             
       
       

  ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

  Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/

  Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying!

  Is your message...
  An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
  Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
  Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
  None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
  Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com

  Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
  ____________________________________________________________


  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From ganvira at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 25 05:39:52 2002
From: ganvira at earthlink.net (Terry van Ettinger)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:39:52 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Academy Awards
References: <17b.5a1cb66.29cfd3a8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <014b01c1d3bf$7ccfec20$b995cd18@charterpipeline.com>

Well I just got the sound track for a birthday present and am listening to
it now, and they damn well better give HP the Oscar for best musical score.
I love this!  This music is great!!

Terry, who has decided microwaves are not good to stand near on high seas of
10-12-foot wave sets.
> The Oscars are about to be presented in the USA.  HP is only up for three
> awards...Musical Score, Art Direction and Costume Design.  Maggie Smith is
up
> for an award, but for a different movie.  Lets hope we win ONE and can
read
> 'Academy Award Winning Movie' on the upcoming DVD!
> ~shahara in wi
>
>
> shahara lefay * pagan priestess
> ^^serendipitously smitten with severus snape^^
> **lurid lover to lucius**
> ~hereditery helpmate for hagrid~
> icq   # 152784873
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material
from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
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From ganvira at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 25 05:45:12 2002
From: ganvira at earthlink.net (Terry van Ettinger)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:45:12 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Academy Awards
References: <a7m7co+dn9d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <015a01c1d3c0$3bc607e0$b995cd18@charterpipeline.com>

Damn!  They *should* have gotten best musical score!!  The sound track is
truly glorious!  Magical and transported are very accurate descriptions.
John Williams has done brilliant work!

Terry
> Well, darn it, HP didn't win a thing!  But LoTR won several.  I can't
> believe Moulin Rough won for Costume...gosh, I myself could outfit a
> cast of sleezies from our local thrift shop, it was hardly is an award
> winnng effort!  And LoTR got best musical score...I hadn't heard that
> soundtrack, was it good?  (My kids didn't remember and I didn't want
> to sit thru the movie with a baby!) I thought surly HP would win...I
> adored John Williams music, so very magical and transportive.
> Grrr...maybe next year with Chamber of Secrets!





From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 25 08:39:13 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:39:13 -0000
Subject: Academy Awards
In-Reply-To: <17b.5a1cb66.29cfd3a8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a7mnnh+7rtv@eGroups.com>

http://www.oscars.com/oscarnight/winners/winners_list.html

Arrrrgggggh, what a total crock! David Lynch was
shafted as per usual, while Opie took home his statue.
Memento was robbed of the only award it was nominated
for (a crime in and of itself). I won't even talk
about the Best Picture/Actor/Actress awards, because
none of the films I thought deserved them were even
nominated. Well, except LotR, but that lost anyway.

...

*slaps Academy*

What were you thinking?!


--Anna
PS: I s'pose I've already weighed in on it enough,
but I don't believe HP was Oscar-worthy, at least not
this year. The score was probably better than LotR's,
though. I can't say for sure because I can't for the
life of me remember any music in LotR.




From miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au  Mon Mar 25 10:04:06 2002
From: miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au (storm)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:04:06 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] MST3k references
References: <1016755562.2040.20319.m4@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <005101c1d3f9$0a9d8f60$83d88ec6@storm>

ok so what *is* MST3k? I get that it has something to do with Sci-fi but what?

last night when I could not sleep I tried to decipher the acronym ......

Most Strangers Take 3 kittens

Many Stars Tailor 3 kilts

Mobsters Stay Together: 3 killers

Megan Stares Through 3 Kewpies

Masters Steady To 3 keys

I don't think I'm even close!

so ... what is it?

storm









From Aegeus86 at aol.com  Mon Mar 25 11:32:07 2002
From: Aegeus86 at aol.com (Aegeus86 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 06:32:07 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] MST3k references
Message-ID: <4a.8b482d2.29d064b7@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/25/2002 7:28:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au writes:


> ok so what *is* MST3k? I get that it has something to do with Sci-fi but 
> what?

MST3k is Mystery Science Theater 3000.  The basic plot is that these people 
are trapped in a spaceship and forced to watch bad sci-fi movies, of which 
they comment on incessantly.  It' really quite funny.  Another fun thing to 
do is MST very bad fics from FanFiction.net (though they don't actually do 
that on the show).

~Aegeus











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From Zorb17 at aol.com  Mon Mar 25 17:23:47 2002
From: Zorb17 at aol.com (Zorb17 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:23:47 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Academy Awards
Message-ID: <141.bacb1db.29d0b723@aol.com>

Anna said:
>>I s'pose I've already weighed in on it enough,
but I don't believe HP was Oscar-worthy, at least not
this year. The score was probably better than LotR's,
though. I can't say for sure because I can't for the
life of me remember any music in LotR.<<

I was actually rooting for HP *not* to win for best score.  The music was 
overbearing, and that repeated theme got annoying, IMHO.  Personally, I think 
the best scores are the ones you don't notice or remember, because that means 
they did their job in underscoring the film without distracting from it.  I 
was thrilled that LOTR won, and that it came away with the most awards (only 
4, but better than everyone else!).

>>*slaps Academy*

What were you thinking?!<<

I think the same thing every year, and I'm sure we're not alone in that.


Zorb




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From landers at email.unc.edu  Mon Mar 25 17:42:55 2002
From: landers at email.unc.edu (Betty)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:42:55 -0500
Subject: yahoo'ss upcoming charges[Fwd: [Fwd: Important Yahoo! Mail Service 
 Announcement]]
Message-ID: <3C9F619C.3C89A30B@email.unc.edu>

Here's the scoop, straight from my yahoo mailbox.  This will clear
everything up.  It's not a complete hoax, but it doesn't seem to include
everything the person who wrote the petition thought it did.
Sorry for the crosspost, again, but now that I've got everything sorted
out, I figured I should let everyone know so there'd be no further
confusion.
-------- Original Message --------
 Subject: [Fwd: Important Yahoo! Mail Service Announcement]
    Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:29:32 -0500
    From: Betty Landers <tarheel_drummerchild at yahoo.com>
Reply-To: landers at email.unc.edu
      To: landers at email.unc.edu




-------- Original Message --------
 Subject: Important Yahoo! Mail Service Announcement
    Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 02:42:16 PST
    From: Yahoo! Mail <mail-announce at yahoo-inc.com>
Reply-To: mail-announce at yahoo-inc.com
      To: tarheel_drummerchild at yahoo.com


 [Yahoo! Mail]

   Hello,

   Important service announcement regarding your
   POP3 or Mail Forwarding service. Please read
   on.

   Effective April 24, 2002, Yahoo! Mail will no
   longer provide free POP3 Access or Auto Mail
   Forwarding to Yahoo! Delivers subscribers.

   If you would like to continue using Mail
   Forwarding or POP3 Access, please subscribe to
   our improved package that allows you to:

      * Use Outlook, Eudora, or another POP3
        client to access and manage your Yahoo!
        Mail.
      * Automatically forward your Yahoo! Mail to
        another email account -- even another
        Yahoo! address![Image]
      * Send larger attachments, now up to 5MB
        instead of the free 1.5MB limit.[Image]
      * Send email without the Yahoo! promotional
        text at the bottom.* [Image]

          Sign up today and SAVE 33%

   Subscribe before April 24th and get the first
   year of service for just $19.99. That's 33% off
   the regular service fee of $29.99.

   Remember, if you do not subscribe by April 24,
   2002, you will no longer be able to access your
   Yahoo! Mail messages by POP or at another email
   address.

   Sincerely,
   The Yahoo! Mail Team

   For further information, please read our
   frequently asked questions. Please note that
   your Yahoo! Delivers settings will not be
   affected.

   *Applies only to email sent through the Yahoo!
   SMTP servers.




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 25 19:11:50 2002
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:11:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] MST3k references
In-Reply-To: <005101c1d3f9$0a9d8f60$83d88ec6@storm>
Message-ID: <20020325191150.34835.qmail@web13705.mail.yahoo.com>



  storm <miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au> wrote: 
>Ok so what *is* MST3k? I get that it has something to do with Sci-fi but what?>

Great guess! Actually it was a show on Comedy Central years ago and then moved over to the Sci-Fi Channel. It ran for 10 years with a lot of cult fans to include myself and my husband! We got the boys hooked on it too. I like the show with Mike Nelson! He is on a spaceship called rhe Satellite of Love with a crew of bots(robots). The bots are Tom Servo, Crow, and Gypsy. Mike and Tom and Crow sit in a theatre on the ship aka Movie Sign and watch really bad scifi movies and comment on the movie while watching it. Tons of one liners and jokes! The reason why they sit through these movies is to make them brain dead to the point of easy mind control by Pearl Forrester. Evil woman who wants to rule the universe along with her co-horts Brain Guy and a Planet of the Apes type of Ape! Loads of fun to watch and if you get the SciFi Channel, they are on Saturday morning, here on the east coast usually at 9:30am. But it is worth while to check out, they have great skits and really dumb movies to razz! Just wanting to add my input on Mystery Science Theater 3000! They also had a movie out a few years back, where they had fun with This Planet Earth! We got the video and really like acting out with the crew of the Satellite of Love!

Schnoogles,

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Very Merry Band of Muggles 100%    



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Tue Mar 26 14:24:22 2002
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:24:22 -0000
Subject: Academy Awards
In-Reply-To: <141.bacb1db.29d0b723@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a7q0am+v5jf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Zorb17 at a... wrote:
 
> I was actually rooting for HP *not* to win for best score.  The music was 
> overbearing, and that repeated theme got annoying, IMHO.  Personally, I think 
> the best scores are the ones you don't notice or remember, because that 
means 
> they did their job in underscoring the film without distracting from it. 

I agree completely.  It seems to me that many of the people who like the HP 
score are enjoying it most as separate listening on CDs.  I suppose a cynic would 
say that selling CDs is a major task of a movie score, too, but I believe that in 
principle the score should serve promarily to support the action, not overwhelm 
it.  Shower scenes excepted.  John Williams' stuff all sounds the same to me; by 
this point in his career, he could turn over the whole scoring job to some intern 
with copies of his previous work.




From moongirlk at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 26 15:43:07 2002
From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:43:07 -0000
Subject: Other academy awards
Message-ID: <a7q4ub+h3sp@eGroups.com>

Just wanted to ask how people felt about the other awards.  Was there 
anyone who you thought got shafted?  Anyone you thought didn't 
deserve the honor?  And what about the clothes, hair, etc.?  Dish!

I really liked the guy who won the humanitarian award - his attitude 
was awesome, and it was so nice the way he talked about his parents.

I was bummed that Amelie didn't win at least something - it deserved 
to be in the running for best picture (imo, of course), and yet 
somehow didn't even win best foreign film.  Bah!  

And there was a bit of secret glee on my part that Russel Crowe 
didn't win.  I mean, I was really happy for Denzel - he's done such 
great work over the years that even though I didn't see Training Day, 
I'm sure he deserved it (althought I was torn between him and Sean 
Penn), but some little part of me was happy specifically because 
Crowe didn't win.  I'm so wrong.  

I was happy to see Jennifer Lopez finally figured out which bits 
clothes are generally meant to cover (not to Jen - it's the bits most 
sensitive to cold - that's why we wear clothes!), but I couldn't 
figure out what was up with her hair.  Julia Robert's dress took me a 
minute to figure out, but once I did, I liked it a lot.  And Halle 
Berry is always beautiful, but that dress was gorgeous.  Gwynneth 
Paltrow on the other hand... I'm worried about her.  Clearly she has 
no friends.  Even a casual friend would surely have talked her out of 
that dress, or at least reminded her that support *can* be beautiful.

Wow - I feel all catty now.  It's actually kinda fun!  C'mon, you 
know you want to do it too!  How about Julia's many (many) huggins of 
Denzel?  Anyone care to comment?

kimberly
hoping to liven things up




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 26 17:39:46 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:39:46 -0000
Subject: Other academy awards
In-Reply-To: <a7q4ub+h3sp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7qbp2+m135@eGroups.com>

Kimberly meowed:

> Wow - I feel all catty now.  It's actually kinda fun!  C'mon, you 
> know you want to do it too!  How about Julia's many (many) huggins 
of 
> Denzel?  Anyone care to comment?

Uh, she's a lucky so-and-so?

Amy
who can't dish further 'cause she didn't watch the show




From catlady at wicca.net  Tue Mar 26 18:35:13 2002
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:35:13 -0000
Subject: HP Movie Score (was: Academy Awards)
In-Reply-To: <a7q0am+v5jf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7qf11+lpnn@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "joanne0012" <Joanne0012 at a...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Zorb17 at a... wrote:
>  
> > I was actually rooting for HP *not* to win for best score. 
> > The music was  overbearing, and that repeated theme got annoying, 
> 
> John Williams' stuff all sounds the same to me; by this point in
> his career, he could turn over the whole scoring job to some intern 
> with copies of his previous work.

There was more wrong with the score of HP&SS than being copied from 
Williams's previous work. I can't recall ever having HATED a Williams 
score before (it's true that I don't go to many movies, but I sure 
did go to the first Star Wars many times the year it came out), and I 
absolutely LOATHED the HP&SS score. I covered my ears with my hands 
and winced in pain several times during the movie! The two things I 
found *most* disgusting were that 'celestial voices' or 'angelic 
choir' thing that played for Harry's first sight of magic, first 
sight of Hogwarts Castle, and something else. THAT sound effect is 
cheesy enough when used for predestined soulmates's first kiss, and 
there is NO EXCUSE for using it anywhere else!, and that Grand 
Triumphant (pompous, grandiose, too damn loud) Upswell as the 
Hogwarts Express headed back to Muggledom. Leaving school for summer 
break is not exactly the same emotional color as defeating an Evil 
Empire or even winning an Olympic Gold Medal, and should not have the 
same music. Yuck.




From dicentra at xmission.com  Tue Mar 26 18:37:50 2002
From: dicentra at xmission.com (dicentra63)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:37:50 -0000
Subject: MST3k references
In-Reply-To: <20020325191150.34835.qmail@web13705.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a7qf5u+10674@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Wanda Mallett <witchwanda2002 at y...> wrote:
> 
> 
>   storm <miss_megan at d...> wrote: 
> >Ok so what *is* MST3k? I get that it has something to do with
Sci-fi but what?>
> 
> Great guess! Actually it was a show on Comedy Central years ago and
then moved over to the Sci-Fi Channel. It ran for 10 years with a lot
of cult fans to include myself and my husband! We got the boys hooked
on it too. I like the show with Mike Nelson! He is on a spaceship
called rhe Satellite of Love with a crew of bots(robots). The bots are
Tom Servo, Crow, and Gypsy. Mike and Tom and Crow sit in a theatre on
the ship aka Movie Sign and watch really bad scifi movies and comment
on the movie while watching it. Tons of one liners and jokes! The
reason why they sit through these movies is to make them brain dead to
the point of easy mind control by Pearl Forrester. Evil woman who
wants to rule the universe along with her co-horts Brain Guy and a
Planet of the Apes type of Ape! Loads of fun to watch and if you get
the SciFi Channel, they are on Saturday morning, here on the east
coast usually at 9:30am. But it is worth while to check out, they have
great skits and really dumb movies to razz! Just wanting to add my
input on Mystery Science Theater 3000! They also had a movie out a few
years back, where they had fun with This Planet Earth! We got the
video and really like acting out with the crew of the Satellite of Love!
> 

This is my claim to MST3K fame:

Kevin Murphy (aka Tom Servo and ape guy) and I share the same
birthday. I sent a birthday greeting to his e-mail some years ago
(during the Comedy Central years) and he answered!  I still have it
saved on my hard drive.

I also contributed 5 bucks to buy a quilt for Julie Walker, former
Info Club Poobah, who left the show at the same time Trace did
(original Crow and Dr. Forrester).

This makes me important.  Really.

--Dicentra, who prefers the Joel years 





From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com  Tue Mar 26 20:04:17 2002
From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (kelleyelf)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:04:17 -0000
Subject: Other academy awards, *dishing*
In-Reply-To: <a7q4ub+h3sp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7qk81+5h3p@eGroups.com>

Quoted bits are Kimberly's...

I haven't seen any of the movies nominated, so can't speak at all as 
to who deserved to win, whether they did or didn't...

> > And there was a bit of secret glee on my part that Russel Crowe 
> didn't win.  I mean, I was really happy for Denzel - he's done such 
> great work over the years that even though I didn't see Training 
Day, I'm sure he deserved it (althought I was torn between him and 
Sean Penn), but some little part of me was happy specifically because 
> Crowe didn't win.>>>>>>>>>

I just knew Crowe wouldn't get it this year, so there was no doubt to 
me that Denzel would win.  I remember reading mixed reviews of 
Training Day, though nothing ever criticizing Denzel.  IMO, he's 
always good, so I think he always deserves it, too.  I didn't see Sam 
I Am, or whatever Penn's movie was, but the ads didn't inspire me to 
see this movie at all.  I'm sure this is unfair of me, but I get 
strong Rain Man de ja vu with this one, plus it *looks* like it's 
full of schmaltz (it just looks very Chris Columbus to me, whoever 
the director was).  Sean Penn's great, too, though.    
 
> I was happy to see Jennifer Lopez finally figured out which bits 
> clothes are generally meant to cover (not to Jen - it's the bits 
most sensitive to cold - that's why we wear clothes!), but I couldn't 
> figure out what was up with her hair. >>>>>>>>

Lol!  When I first saw her, I was smacked with a powerful flash of 
Anne Bancroft.  "Mrs. Robinson, are you trying to seduce me?"

> Gwynneth Paltrow on the other hand... I'm worried about her.  
Clearly she has no friends.  Even a casual friend would surely have 
talked her out of that dress, or at least reminded her that support 
*can* be beautiful. >>>>>>>

Yeah, that was pretty bad.  I can't even remember Julia Roberts' 
dress, apart from that it was black and covered a lot.  Did *not* 
like Jennifer Connelly's scarf-thing, and the messy hair thing (Julia 
Roberts, a bit, and Cameron Diaz) is getting really old to me.  I did 
kind of enjoy that this year people seemed to pick outfits that 
didn't scream "I'm sooo trying to please Joan Rivers!"  (Didn't see 
her pre-show thing this year, when she usually doesn't make her rude 
comments when she's face-to-face with everyone.  Of course, E! will 
run her post-show thing every day for the next two weeks, so lots of 
chances to see and hear all her ~helpful advice~....)

> How about Julia's many (many) huggins of Denzel?  Anyone care to 
comment? >>>>>

Lol, yeah, I'm with Amy--who would pass up the opportunity to hug 
Denzel?  Homina, homina... :-D  The impression I always have of Julia 
is that the people who she likes, she genuinely likes.  She was happy 
for her buddy.  But, yes, it was a bit 'okay...all right...let him 
breathe, already...'  A tad exuberant, yes.

I also really liked the humor the presenters got to have this year.  
The part with Ryan Phillipe and Reese Witherspoon and the remarks 
about makeup were soo funny.  Then when she said "Can I read it?" and 
his "You earn more than me, so I guess so," or something like that, 
and her little exclamation at that...very funny, and such a lovely 
couple....

Kelley




From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Mar 26 20:24:02 2002
From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:24:02 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Other academy awards
References: <a7q4ub+h3sp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <002f01c1d504$2cc862c0$d71186d9@monica>

I was pleased Ron Howard got best director. He's had a couple of films win best picture before but never won anything personally and honestly how *can* the film be good if not for the director???
I was pissed LOTR didn't win best picture (alhough I admit to not having see Beautiful Mind yet) but I didn't exect it to win. Sci-Fi/Fantasy films so rarely win the big awards, even when they're as popular as LOTR.
I loved Denzel's speech, and julia's comments as she read out the nomination. I was happy for Haille Berry too.

K
The Definition of an Upgrade: Take old bugs out, put new ones in. 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: moongirlk 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 3:43 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Other academy awards


  Just wanted to ask how people felt about the other awards.  Was there 
  anyone who you thought got shafted?  Anyone you thought didn't 
  deserve the honor?  And what about the clothes, hair, etc.?  Dish!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 26 22:44:25 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:44:25 -0000
Subject: MST3k references
In-Reply-To: <a7qf5u+10674@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7qtk9+lofv@eGroups.com>

> --Dicentra, who prefers the Joel years

Oh dear.  And we were getting along so well.  I much prefer the Mike 
years, especially once Bill Corbett was doing Crow.

So cool about Kevin Murphy!

Amy




From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 26 19:21:34 2002
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:21:34 -0000
Subject: Other academy awards
In-Reply-To: <a7qbp2+m135@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7qhnu+o1ap@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "lupinesque" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> Kimberly meowed:
> 
> > Wow - I feel all catty now.  It's actually kinda fun!  C'mon, 
you 
> > know you want to do it too!  How about Julia's many (many) 
huggins 
> of 
> > Denzel?  Anyone care to comment?
> 
> Uh, she's a lucky so-and-so?
> 
> Amy
> who can't dish further 'cause she didn't watch the show

My husband was commenting on that too.  She looked VERY VERY 
enthusiastic.  I remembered, however, that they're probably good 
friends, since they made "The Pelican Brief" together.  And how many 
guys has she made films with that she hasn't had subsequent 
relationships with?  OTOH, if she DOES have a thing for DW, who 
could possibly blame her? <g>

--Barb
(Whose husband just shakes his head every time I say, "But so-and-so 
was in such-and-such-a-movie with whatsisface."  Can you tell I 
absolutely LOVE the new Kevin Bacon credit card ads wherein HE plays 
Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon?  Because I used to work for someone who 
is friends with Lea Thompson and I sing for a conductor whose 
actress daughter was the bride in Woody Allen's "Crimes and 
Misdemeanors" I can actually connect myself in six or fewer steps to 
scads of celebs!)

 




From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 26 23:02:31 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:02:31 -0000
Subject: Other academy awards
In-Reply-To: <002f01c1d504$2cc862c0$d71186d9@monica>
Message-ID: <a7qum7+odec@eGroups.com>

K opines:

<<
I was pleased Ron Howard got best director.
He's had a couple of films win best picture
before but never won anything personally and
honestly how *can* the film be good if not
for the director???
>>

Not me. I haven't seen A Beautiful Mind, but
I'm positive David Lynch deserved that statue.
Then again, David Lynch has an illustrious
history of being ignored by the Oscars; Wild
At Heart was only nominated for (and didn't
win) Best Supporting Actress, even though it
won the Palm D'Or at Cannes. Blue Velvet was
nominated for (and didn't win) Best Director
only. Mulholland Drive deserved to be at the
very least nominated in more than two categories!

On that note, I'll say what I said in a
different group: it's nice to see a black
Best Actor and Actress in the same year, even
if Naomi Watts and Gene Hackman deserved it
way more. Er, more specificaly, Gene Hackman
should have been nominated for The Royal
Tenenbaums, not the other 10 or so movies he
made last year. =P

I will never get over this. I think I'm
scarred for life. But I promise to shut up
now! *shuts the hell up* *fumes silently*

--Anna




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 26 23:56:17 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:56:17 -0000
Subject: ISO Mr. April
Message-ID: <a7r1r1+lt9s@eGroups.com>

Dear, dear, less than a week 'til April and we don't have a candidate 
for the next Hunk of HPfGU.  We'd better get moving or there'll 
barely be time for a photo shoot before the 1st.  Any nominees?  Men, 
which of you wants to join the ranks of Neil "Polish My Chrome" Ward, 
David "Pink Chiffon" Frankis and Luke "Fur Kills" X?

N.B.: John Walton is ineligible for Mr. April, as he will be spending 
the all-important kickoff day chained up on an island 20 miles 
offshore from the nearest internet connection.  (For those who are 
unaware of Mr. Walton's past April Fool's Day crimes, all I can say 
is don't believe anything he says on Monday.  I refer you to the list 
of juicy punishments in Polls and urge you to vote.)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=623002

Amy




From john at walton.vu  Wed Mar 27 00:04:54 2002
From: john at walton.vu (John Walton)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 00:04:54 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] ISO Mr. April
In-Reply-To: <a7r1r1+lt9s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <B8C6BD26.D876%john@walton.vu>

lupinesque wrote:

> N.B.: John Walton is ineligible for Mr. April, as he will be spending
> the all-important kickoff day chained up on an island 20 miles
> offshore from the nearest internet connection.  (For those who are
> unaware of Mr. Walton's past April Fool's Day crimes, all I can say
> is don't believe anything he says on Monday.  I refer you to the list
> of juicy punishments in Polls and urge you to vote.)
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=623002

Bah! Humbug. But surely Poll Choice 2 would make an ideal Mr April theme?

BTW, for full details of my April Fool's prank last year, see this and
following messages:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/messages/15712

--John

____________________________________________

 "Do not thump the book of G'Quon.  It is disrespectful."
-- G'Kar, Babylon 5

John Walton || john at walton.vu
____________________________________________




From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 00:08:25 2002
From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 00:08:25 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Other academy awards
References: <a7qum7+odec@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <004d01c1d523$85012160$1e2d86d9@monica>

On the subject of people who have a history of being overlooked congrats to randy Newman, 17th time lucky!  Personally I thought Enya should have won the best sone but I can't complain about it going to him.

K
A subversive is anyone who can out-argue their government. 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: saintbacchus 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 11:02 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Other academy awards


  K opines:

  <<
  I was pleased Ron Howard got best director.
  He's had a couple of films win best picture
  before but never won anything personally and
  honestly how *can* the film be good if not
  for the director???
  >>

  Not me. I haven't seen A Beautiful Mind, but
  I'm positive David Lynch deserved that statue.
  Then again, David Lynch has an illustrious
  history of being ignored by the Oscars; Wild
  At Heart was only nominated for (and didn't
  win) Best Supporting Actress, even though it
  won the Palm D'Or at Cannes. Blue Velvet was
  nominated for (and didn't win) Best Director
  only. Mulholland Drive deserved to be at the
  very least nominated in more than two categories!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From catlady at wicca.net  Wed Mar 27 01:08:06 2002
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:08:06 -0000
Subject: resurrecting an ancient off-topic
Message-ID: <a7r61m+q4dr@eGroups.com>

Remember when we were discussing the difficulty of buying bras (that 
fit)? Remember I said that I had found a style that I like, altho' 
it does cost more than $30 each... at that time, I went looking in 
the websites of fat-lady mail-order catalogs, to find that bra so I 
could pass on the information... now I have finally found an on-line 
catalog that has it.

www.silhouettes.com
it calls itself 'Glamorise? Minimizing Bra' and its catalog number 
appears to be 226811. 




From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 27 01:52:18 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:52:18 -0000
Subject: Other academy awards
In-Reply-To: <004d01c1d523$85012160$1e2d86d9@monica>
Message-ID: <a7r8ki+a1f1@eGroups.com>

K writes:

<<
On the subject of people who have a history of 
being overlooked congrats to randy Newman, 17th
time lucky!>>

Yeah, I agree. Him and Susan Lucci. *shakes head*
He was way overdue.

Y'know, I've sent a message about MST3k twice now
and neither one has gotten through. I think Dr.
Forrester has gotten ahold of Yahoo.

--Anna





From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 01:55:50 2002
From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:55:50 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] resurrecting an ancient off-topic
References: <a7r61m+q4dr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <002f01c1d532$86986560$870e86d9@monica>

Oh I was thinking about this topic just the other day. I got one of those pieces of junk e-mail that purports to be from someone you know. You know the sort of thing - I just had to recommend this product to you because I knew you'd love it ... Anyway it was an apparently 'genuine and effective' method for increasing bust-size without surgery. I looked at the mail and then down at my disproportuionately large  ummm assets, and thought bloody hell any bigger and I'd overbalance every time I tried to stand up :) At least if I'm going to get adverts I'd like them to be vaguely useful *sigh*

K

I'm in shape ... round's a shape isn't it? 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: catlady_de_los_angeles 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 1:08 AM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] resurrecting an ancient off-topic


  Remember when we were discussing the difficulty of buying bras (that 
  fit)? Remember I said that I had found a style that I like, altho' 
  it does cost more than $30 each... at that time, I went looking in 
  the websites of fat-lady mail-order catalogs, to find that bra so I 
  could pass on the information... now I have finally found an on-line 
  catalog that has it.

  www.silhouettes.com
  it calls itself 'Glamorise? Minimizing Bra' and its catalog number 
  appears to be 226811. 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 26 22:38:08 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:38:08 -0000
Subject: MST3k references
In-Reply-To: <4a.8b482d2.29d064b7@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a7qt8g+92gj@eGroups.com>

Aegeus informations:

<<
Another fun thing to do is MST very bad fics from
FanFiction.net (though they don't actually do that
on the show).
>>

Okay, my original reply was swallowed by Yahoo, so
I'm trying it again. Hopefully, the original won't
be regurgitated later, making me look stupid.

Wanda and Aegeus have done a bang-up job describing
the indescribable glory of MST3k, so I only have two
things to add: terminology and fanfic!

MST3k - the show
MSTies - the fans
MiSTing - a work (fanfic, movie, whatever) that has
been given the MST treatment

It's so amsuing to me that MST fanfic should take
the form of MiSTing rather than actual stories. And
when they're done well, they're SO awesome. Sadly,
there is a dire lack of Harry Potter MiSTings. Yes,
I know there are some, but they always use the HP
characters, and that just ain't right. Darn kids,
don't know their roots!

But anyway, if you're interested in reading some
MiSTings, I highly recommend Web Site #9:'
http://www.masemware.com/mst3k/

Go to the MiSTings Archive and sort by rating, then
pick one that looks good (also, note that HTML and
HTML+ are the easiest forms to read). They've got
all manner of fandoms...except, of course, for Harry
Potter. -_- The reason I suggest sorting by rating
is that then you get the best ones on top. Bad
MiSTings are utterly pointless.


Cheers! And keep circulating the tapes!
--Anna, who likes Mike better but loves Joel, too




From boggles at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 27 03:52:45 2002
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:52:45 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Other academy awards
In-Reply-To: <a7qhnu+o1ap@eGroups.com>
References: <a7qhnu+o1ap@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <p05010403b8c6f114203f@[66.32.50.227]>

At 7:21 PM +0000 3/26/02, blpurdom wrote:
>
>--Barb
>(Whose husband just shakes his head every time I say, "But so-and-so
>was in such-and-such-a-movie with whatsisface."  Can you tell I
>absolutely LOVE the new Kevin Bacon credit card ads wherein HE plays
>Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon?  Because I used to work for someone who
>is friends with Lea Thompson and I sing for a conductor whose
>actress daughter was the bride in Woody Allen's "Crimes and
>Misdemeanors" I can actually connect myself in six or fewer steps to
>scads of celebs!)

:)

I was in a high-school student film with a musician who was in a 
college student film with a theater major who later was in a film 
with the kid who played Josh's best friend in _Big_ (I think his name 
was David Moscow).  Thus, playing fast and loose with the definition 
of "actor" and "movie," I have a Kevin Bacon number of 5.  ;)

-- 
  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles at earthlink.net
=== Personal Growth Geek Code v0.4 ===
GG++ !T A-- M++s--- g+ B- C- P++++ a- b- h+ her++ E+ N n++ i f+
c++ S%++++&&># D R++ xc++ xm+ xi+ yd++ ys++(-) rt+ ro+ rp++++ rjk<+
ow+++ ofn+ oft++ op++ esk-- ey+ ek+++ pl++ pf++ pe++ U!



From boggles at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 27 04:23:58 2002
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:23:58 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] MST3k references
Message-ID: <p05010404b8c6f9d92f85@[66.32.50.227]>

At 11:11 AM -0800 3/25/02, Wanda Mallett wrote:
>
>I like the show with Mike Nelson! He is on a spaceship called rhe 
>Satellite of Love with a crew of bots(robots).  . . .  The reason 
>why they sit through these movies is to make them brain dead to the 
>point of easy mind control by Pearl Forrester.

Miff, miff.  :(

Or am I showing my age by saying that, while I don't miss the 
original evil sidekick, I prefer my MST with Joel and T.V.'s Frank 
being tortured by the original Dr. Forrester?


-- 
  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles at earthlink.net
=== Personal Growth Geek Code v0.4 ===
GG++ !T A-- M++s--- g+ B- C- P++++ a- b- h+ her++ E+ N n++ i f+
c++ S%++++&&># D R++ xc++ xm+ xi+ yd++ ys++(-) rt+ ro+ rp++++ rjk<+
ow+++ ofn+ oft++ op++ esk-- ey+ ek+++ pl++ pf++ pe++ U!



From macloudt at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 27 11:09:28 2002
From: macloudt at hotmail.com (Mary Jennings)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:09:28 +0000
Subject: Terry Waite and Harry Potter
Message-ID: <F86LMxLQnS5PhaMHxbD00008079@hotmail.com>

DH and I went to see Terry Waite speaking at the local theatre last night, 
and Mr. Waite had this lovely story.

Mr. Waite grew up in a small Cheshire village and attended the village small 
village school.  A couple of years ago this school had an extension made and 
Mr. Waite was asked if he'd like to do the official opening.  He gladly 
agreed.

While he was waiting to cut the ribbon he suggested to the Head Teacher that 
the youngest pupil of the school should help him out, so the Head motioned 
to a small boy to come forward.  To make things easier Mr. Waite lifted the 
boy up (he's 6'7") and, when he asked the boy what his name was, the boy 
replied "Harry Potter"!

Mr. Waite later spoke to Harry's mother, who confirmed that this was indeed 
his name, given to him before the first book came out.  Every time mother 
and son went into a bookshop, the boy would ask, "Mummy, why is my name on 
that book?"

Best of all, the headline in the local newspaper ran along the lines of 
"Harry Potter opens school extension, aided by Terry Waite"!

It was an informative evening, improved by the fact that myself (aged 33) 
and DH (aged 38) appeared to be the youngest people in the theatre by at 
least 15 years.  I haven't felt so full of the joys of spring for eons ;)

Mary Ann
(whose premature grey hairs blended in nicely for a change)

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.




From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Wed Mar 27 13:59:08 2002
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:59:08 -0000
Subject: resurrecting an ancient off-topic
In-Reply-To: <002f01c1d532$86986560$870e86d9@monica>
Message-ID: <a7sj7c+16ub@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Kathryn" <kcawte at k...> wrote:
>  I looked at the mail and then down at my disproportuionately large  ummm 
assets, and thought bloody hell any bigger and I'd overbalance every time I tried 
to stand up :) At least if I'm going to get adverts I'd like them to be vaguely 
useful *sigh*

At least the advert was for a body part that you *have*.  I keep getting adverts 
for ways to enlarge, um, a key masculine body part.




From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Wed Mar 27 15:05:46 2002
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:05:46 -0000
Subject: What's in a name?
Message-ID: <a7sn4a+3sau@eGroups.com>

>From DD McNicoll in today's The Australian:

"Kiwi PM Helen Clark is on an official visit to Washington DC. She 
was welcomed yesterday to Blair House, George W Bush's official guest 
residence, by the President's assistant chief of protocol. Such an 
event wouldn't be worth noting were it not for the roars of laughter 
in Wellington when Clark's press office mentioned the gentleman's 
name. In the US he probably goes almost unnoticed, but our Kiwi 
cousins can't get enough of Randy Bumgardner."

They're easily amused, aren't they?  ;-)

Best regards
Christian Stub?




From editor at texas.net  Wed Mar 27 15:28:33 2002
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:28:33 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: resurrecting an ancient off-topic
References: <a7sj7c+16ub@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <00d601c1d5a4$0f30e520$417663d1@texas.net>

> At least the advert was for a body part that you *have*.  I keep getting
adverts
> for ways to enlarge, um, a key masculine body part.

The stomach? The mouth? Most of the men I know don't need any help with
those...

--Amanda





From mjollner at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 27 15:42:16 2002
From: mjollner at yahoo.com (mjollner)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:42:16 -0000
Subject: Other academy awards
In-Reply-To: <a7q4ub+h3sp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7sp8p+c3f@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "moongirlk" <moongirlk at y...> wrote:
> Just wanted to ask how people felt about the other awards.  Was 
there 
> anyone who you thought got shafted?  Anyone you thought didn't 
> deserve the honor?  And what about the clothes, hair, etc.?  Dish!

Dish, dish!  I stay up every year to watch the whole damned thing, 
starting with the red carpet interviews beforehand.  Given the length 
of this year's show, I was stumbling to bed past 1am Eastern Time.  
But sacrifices must be made!

Random thoughts: even though Helen Hunt had that messy hair thing 
going, too, I thought she looked pretty for once.  Nicole Kidman 
shouldn't wear white or pale pink; her dress was lovely, but she 
would've looked better if she had worn something brighter.  Kate 
Winslet looked great, and I really liked her dress.  Renee Zellweger, 
who was piss-my-pants FUNNY in "Bridget Jones's Diary," really, really 
needs to EAT something!  It seems that she lost the weight she put on 
for that role, plus an extra 15 pounds or so.  Ice cream, Renee!  
Burgers and fries!  You know you want it!

The repeated tributes to New York annoyed me after awhile.  Yes, it 
was nice that Woody Allen showed up for his first Academy Awards show 
to pay tribute to New York, and certainly that city has suffered a lot 
since September 11.  But a plane crashed into the Pentagon down here 
near DC, too, and let's not forget the plane that was on its way to DC 
that crashed in Pennsylvania.  Not to mention that the dead were not 
just New Yorkers, nor just Americans, but citizens of many nations.  
9/11 left plenty of grief to go around.  

> I was bummed that Amelie didn't win at least something - it deserved 
> to be in the running for best picture (imo, of course), and yet 
> somehow didn't even win best foreign film.  Bah!  

I was really surprised by this, too.  Usually when a foreign film is 
also a box office and critical success here in the US, it's almost 
guaranteed to win *something.*  I hadn't heard of the Bosnian film 
that won.  
 
> And there was a bit of secret glee on my part that Russel Crowe 
> didn't win.  I mean, I was really happy for Denzel - he's done such 
> great work over the years that even though I didn't see Training 
Day, 
> I'm sure he deserved it (althought I was torn between him and Sean 
> Penn), but some little part of me was happy specifically because 
> Crowe didn't win.  I'm so wrong.  

I was also glad that Mr. Surly didn't take home the little golden man, 
although he was very gracious to Halle Berry when she was in 
histrionics just before making her acceptance speech, trying to 
reassure her and calm her down.  And he is a helluva talented actor.  
Not *quite* as good as Denzel, but right up there.  I still think 
about his performance in "The Insider" with awe.  And I must say, he 
looked yummy in the otherwise overblown "Gladiator."  (Wasn't it funny 
during the tribute to the movies when Gorbachev said he liked that 
film?  I laughed out loud!)

> I was happy to see Jennifer Lopez finally figured out which bits 
> clothes are generally meant to cover (not to Jen - it's the bits 
most 
> sensitive to cold - that's why we wear clothes!), but I couldn't 
> figure out what was up with her hair.  

Um, yes!  The curls were nice, but what was up with that middle 
part/not a part thing?  Yikes!  You think she would've looked in a 
mirror before she left in her luxury SUV for the Kodak Theater.  I did 
like the dress.  Nice to know she can now recognize what a *dress* is, 
as opposed to a hanky.

>Julia Robert's dress took me 
>a minute to figure out, but once I did, I liked it a lot.  

Julia looked good, more laidback than last year.  

>How about Julia's many (many) huggins of Denzel?  Anyone care to 
>comment?

She's a jammy cow! :)  And yes, it was just a tad over the top, not 
that she's known for emotional restraint.  I read a scathing critique 
of the show on Salon.com; the writer wished that Denzel's wife 
would've come backstage and kicked Julia's skinny little ass.  Had to 
chuckle when I read that!

>And Halle Berry is always beautiful, but that dress was gorgeous. 
 
Halle was stunning.  Even in "Monster's Ball," emotionally damaged and 
with seemingly no makeup and flat hair, she was lovely.  Life just 
isn't fair. :)

Gwynneth 
> Paltrow on the other hand... I'm worried about her.  Clearly she has 
> no friends.  Even a casual friend would surely have talked her out 
>of that dress, or at least reminded her that support *can* be 
>beautiful.

LOL! Oh, Gwynnie.  Child, what were you thinking?!?  She's all into 
that Tara Reid racoon-eye look now.  What's the appeal, I'd like to 
know?  And ditto your comments on that horrible Goth-chick dress.  
She's walking proof that even small-breasted women need bras.  Though 
standing up straight wouldn't've killed her, either.

> Wow - I feel all catty now.  It's actually kinda fun!  

Meow, meow!  That's what the Oscars are all about, honey!  Mostly, 
anyway.  Occasionally, they are about honest recognition of quality 
work.  I was very pleased for Jim Broadbent to win Best Supporting 
Actor.  It didn't occur to me until he won that he was in three good 
films last year: "Bridget Jones's Diary," "Moulin Rouge" and "Iris."  
He played a wildly different character in each, and was great in each. 
 Good for him!  And I loved the tribute to Sidney Poitier, who is a 
prince among actors and among men.

And I guess now I have to see "A Beautiful Mind," since it won Best 
Picture and all...it can get in line behind "Monsoon Wedding" and the 
re-release of "E.T." on my "to see" list...

Mjollner, still bleary-eyed from staying up to watch the whooole thing






From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 17:34:04 2002
From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:34:04 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Other academy awards
References: <a7sp8p+c3f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <004e01c1d5b5$9893bb60$b32b86d9@monica>

I'd offer sympathy but they didn't start til gone 1am where I am. I got to bed *after* the sun had come up.

It was worth it though, especially for Haille Berry's speech, and Denzel and Sydney Poitier. Plus we got commentary by Jonathan Ross and several guests during the adverts which was amusing.

K

Welcome to Hell. Here's your copy of Windows. 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: mjollner 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 3:42 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Other academy awards


  --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "moongirlk" <moongirlk at y...> wrote:
  > Just wanted to ask how people felt about the other awards.  Was 
  there 
  > anyone who you thought got shafted?  Anyone you thought didn't 
  > deserve the honor?  And what about the clothes, hair, etc.?  Dish!

  Dish, dish!  I stay up every year to watch the whole damned thing, 
  starting with the red carpet interviews beforehand.  Given the length 
  of this year's show, I was stumbling to bed past 1am Eastern Time.  
  But sacrifices must be made!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Mar 27 18:24:52 2002
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:24:52 -0000
Subject: What's in a name?
In-Reply-To: <a7sn4a+3sau@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7t2pk+u038@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "pengolodh_sc" <pengolodh_sc at y...> wrote:
>Randy Bumgardner."
> 
> They're easily amused, aren't they?  ;-)

Ah, yes, that amusing American name.

Just to clarify, in UK, and, apparently, ANZ English, randy means 
roughly what horny means in the US.

E..g in his philandering days, Prince Andrew was known as Randy Andy 
to the tabloids.

David




From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 19:52:54 2002
From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:52:54 -0000
Subject: Hogwarts Competition
Message-ID: <009801c1d5c8$fe5bf760$b32b86d9@monica>

     I got this in my inbox about an hour ago. I thought it might interest the Brits on the list.


      Win a trip to Hogwarts School and exclusive tickets to visit the Owl Sanctuary in Devon - as featured in the Philosopher's Stone. The prize includes travel, accommodation and meals for a family of 6 (2 adults, up to 4 children) in June 2002 - which is owl hatching time! It's sure to be a magical trip for all the family.
      
     Just buy any Harry Potter audio book (suitable for ages 5 to 10) from the Tesco.com Books Warehouse to be eligible to enter. See website for full entry details and terms & conditions.

      Click on: www.tesco.com/books
       



If someone on the list wins at least the rest of us could see pictures.

K

Demons are a Ghouls best Friend. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From Aegeus86 at aol.com  Wed Mar 27 19:56:50 2002
From: Aegeus86 at aol.com (Aegeus86 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:56:50 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Other academy awards
Message-ID: <12b.ea25a38.29d37e02@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/26/2002 11:54:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
boggles at earthlink.net writes:


> I was in a high-school student film with a musician who was in a 
> college student film with a theater major who later was in a film 
> with the kid who played Josh's best friend in _Big_ (I think his name 
> was David Moscow).  Thus, playing fast and loose with the definition 
> of "actor" and "movie," I have a Kevin Bacon number of 5.  ;)

My ex-nanny's best friend is Eliza Dushku.  Faith from Buffy.  I met her.  
;-)

~Aegeus

First Mate, SS Ares
Writer of Haiku to inspire fic authors
Head of the "Get Keith to Like Draco and Read Snitch!" committee
Proud H/H and H/D shipper!










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From rhiannon333 at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 27 20:04:46 2002
From: rhiannon333 at hotmail.com (rhiannon333au)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:04:46 -0000
Subject: Update on my son
In-Reply-To: <00f701c1d121$174f8d60$9a7763d1@texas.net>
Message-ID: <a7t8ku+1gu4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amanda" <editor at t...> wrote:
> Okay, my son Tomek and I are back from the hospital, where we went 
for his
> adenoids to be removed and a new set of ear tubes to be put in. 
While he was nder, the surgeon came out and recommended that we take 
his tonsils out oo, they were enormous; this was done.

This was also the case with my daughter when she had her grommettes 
inserted, and had adenoids and HUGE tonsils removed (which helped her 
breathing and other aspects as well  - I hope this is also the case 
for your son). Amanda  - I am pleased to hear the surgery went well, 
although you are right about your poor boy having terrible luck. I am 
lucky that my daughter's hearing and speech problems were identified 
early  - only because she has a genetic defect syndrome and was more 
thoroughly evaluated - and because she has a highly assertive mother 
who is a demanding consumer of medical services! She too had no 
symptoms of the fluid in her ear either. I wish I could offer 
practical help with the speech development issue - I could only 
recount my own laborious efforts over several years which have borne 
fruit, but I have no professional background in this field. I wish 
you all the best with your son in this, and am sure you will achieve 
success,

Megan





From editor at texas.net  Wed Mar 27 20:49:28 2002
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:49:28 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Update on my son
References: <a7t8ku+1gu4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <004401c1d5d0$eb03e760$ad7c63d1@texas.net>

> I am
> lucky that my daughter's hearing and speech problems were identified
> early  - only because she has a genetic defect syndrome and was more
> thoroughly evaluated - and because she has a highly assertive mother
> who is a demanding consumer of medical services!

Well, see, that's what amazed me, because I consider myself the same
(witness the many disagreements with school boards and evaluators who did
not care to be told that Tomek wasn't paying attention to them because they
were boring). Tomek's been in speech therapy for over two years; his speech
delay was noticed at 18 months, and we've followed all the avenues we knew
of. Apparently I lack experience of other avenues.

Disgruntled!Amanda




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Wed Mar 27 16:24:02 2002
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:24:02 EST5EDT
Subject: Oh, sad.  :-(
Message-ID: <A808325F58@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

Dudley Moore died.  :-(  

I always loved Arthur, 10, Crazy People and Wholly Moses.

He was so sick, though.  So I guess it was a blessing of 
peace.

Sad.

"I race cars, play tennis, and fondle women, BUT! I have 
weekends off, and I am my own boss." - Arthur Bach




Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements


"And in more news today, a local official was 
beaten severely with a door after resigning. Strangely, 
nobody will come forward as a witness."



From bray.262 at osu.edu  Wed Mar 27 17:08:20 2002
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Bray)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:08:20 EST5EDT
Subject: *gasp!*  I had forgotten about John's joke!
Message-ID: <A8C55A731A@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

And I STILL don't think it was funny!

Well....maybe a little funny.

Ah, who am I kidding...when I found out he pulled a very 
successful April Fool's joke, I laughed out loud.  I hadn't 
been slammed on April Fool's Day in a very long time.

...but at the time, I wanted to kill him!!

And I'm still waiting for my "elaborately calligraphed, 
individual apology, with chocolate included".

Rachel Bray
The Ohio State University
Fees, Deposits and Disbursements


"And in more news today, a local official was 
beaten severely with a door after resigning. Strangely, 
nobody will come forward as a witness."



From s_ings at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 27 22:30:11 2002
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:30:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] *gasp!*  I had forgotten about John's joke!
In-Reply-To: <A8C55A731A@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <20020327223011.76241.qmail@web14601.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Rachel Bray <bray.262 at osu.edu> wrote:
> And I STILL don't think it was funny!
> 
> Well....maybe a little funny.

Only a little funny, not enough to excuse him from
punishment, right?
> 
> Ah, who am I kidding...when I found out he pulled a
> very 
> successful April Fool's joke, I laughed out loud.  I
> hadn't 
> been slammed on April Fool's Day in a very long
> time.
> 
> ...but at the time, I wanted to kill him!!

Most of us wanted to kill him at the time. He did get
us good, though. Gotta give him credit for that. Also
must take extra measures to keep him away from his
computer come this April 1.
> 
> And I'm still waiting for my "elaborately
> calligraphed, 
> individual apology, with chocolate included".
> 
I'm still waiting for mine, as well, though I'll
settle for just the chocolate. :) Think we'll ever get
it?

Sheryll

=====
"We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times."
 blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26

______________________________________________________________________ 
File your taxes online! http://taxes.yahoo.ca



From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 27 23:26:04 2002
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:26:04 -0000
Subject: Other academy awards
In-Reply-To: <p05010403b8c6f114203f@[66.32.50.227]>
Message-ID: <a7tkec+5il4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Jennifer Boggess Ramon <boggles at e...> 
wrote:
> At 7:21 PM +0000 3/26/02, blpurdom wrote:
> >
> >--Barb
> >(Whose husband just shakes his head every time I say, "But so-and-
> >so was in such-and-such-a-movie with whatsisface."  Can you tell I
> >absolutely LOVE the new Kevin Bacon credit card ads wherein HE 
> >plays Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon?    
> :)
> 
> I was in a high-school student film with a musician who was in a 
> college student film with a theater major who later was in a film 
> with the kid who played Josh's best friend in _Big_ (I think his 
> name was David Moscow).  Thus, playing fast and loose with the 
> definition of "actor" and "movie," I have a Kevin Bacon number of 
> 5.  ;)
 
Let's see--I sing for FBZ whose daughter was the bride in "Crimes 
and Misdemeanors" which Woody Allen made; Allen cast Meryl Streep 
in "Manhatten" and she was in "The River Wild" with Kevin Bacon.  
That's one for FBZ, two for his daughter, three for WA, four for 
MS.  That gives me a Kevin Bacon number of 4.  Whee!  An even faster 
way is this: I worked for HS, who used to live with Lea Thompson 
when she was a ballet student here in Philly, Lea Thompson made "All 
the Right Moves" with Tom Cruise, who made "A Few Good Men" with 
Kevin Bacon.  That's one for HS, two for LT, and three for TC.  A 
Kevin Bacon number of 3 that way!  (I couldn't find any instances of 
Kevin Bacon working with Lea Thompson, so I think a 3 is as low as I 
can go.)  OTOH, since Kevin Bacon was born here in Philly (a mere 16 
days before my sister) you'd think it wouldn't be all that difficult 
for me to find SOME connection...;)

--Barb
(wait--this means I have a Tom Cruise number of TWO.  Hmmm...)





From blpurdom at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 27 23:55:24 2002
From: blpurdom at yahoo.com (blpurdom)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:55:24 -0000
Subject: Other academy awards
In-Reply-To: <a7sp8p+c3f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7tm5c+o8ms@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "mjollner" <mjollner at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "moongirlk" <moongirlk at y...> wrote:
> Random thoughts: even though Helen Hunt had that messy hair thing 
> going, too, I thought she looked pretty for once.  

But what was Cameron Diaz thinking?  Did she get entirely too used 
to being represented by an animated character after making Shrek?  
Did she forget she'd be on-camera?

> The repeated tributes to New York annoyed me after awhile.  Yes, 
> it was nice that Woody Allen showed up for his first Academy 
> Awards show to pay tribute to New York, and certainly that city 
> has suffered a lot since September 11.  But a plane crashed into 
> the Pentagon down here near DC, too, and let's not forget the 
> plane that was on its way to DC that crashed in Pennsylvania.  Not 
> to mention that the dead were not just New Yorkers, nor just 
> Americans, but citizens of many nations.  9/11 left plenty of 
> grief to go around.  

I thought the NYC stuff hit just the right tone, and I was shocked 
and pleased to see Woody Allen, and thrilled that they started off 
the montage with an excerpt from "Manhatten."  (I also loved the bit 
with him and Tony Roberts from "Annie Hall.'  One of my favorite 
moments in the movies.)  In retrospect, it would have been nice if 
there had been some mention of DC, but I can certainly understand 
how it happened, since the folks in the entertainment industry only 
actually beleve in the existence of two cities, LA and NY. ;)

> > And there was a bit of secret glee on my part that Russel Crowe 
> > didn't win.  I mean, I was really happy for Denzel - he's done 
> > such great work over the years that even though I didn't see 
> > Training Day, I'm sure he deserved it (althought I was torn 
> > between him and Sean Penn), but some little part of me was happy 
> > specifically because Crowe didn't win.  I'm so wrong.  

When Jack Nicholson won for "As Good as It Gets" it was pretty much 
acknowledged that people wanted to give him an Oscar for SOMETHING, 
as he'd been woefully overlooked and had made many excellent films 
since he won for "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest."  This seems to 
happen a lot, when the best actor doesn't just ride the wave of a 
popular movie, as Crowe did with "Gladiator."  Many people believe 
(and by many, I mean "me") that Washington SHOULD have gotten the 
Oscar for Malcolm X, just as Spike Lee was egregiously overlooked 
for directing and producing that film.  The problem was--Malcolm X 
is a very controversial person, and a film about him was not going 
to earn the people involved top honors, despite being nominated for 
awards.  It's nice that Washington has finally been recognized (if 
memory serves, he also received the Oscar for "Glory" after he was 
also overlooked for a previous film that SHOULD have earned him his 
first Oscar).  However, if there was justice in the world of Oscar, 
he should have received it already for "Malcolm X."
 
> (Wasn't it funny during the tribute to the movies when Gorbachev 
> said he liked that film?  I laughed out loud!)

And I also loved the clip of Daniel Radcliffe (did they film him on 
the set of CoS?) saying how much he liked "Twelve Angry Men," the 
first black and white film he'd ever seen!  What a great choice, and 
totally not what you'd expect a twelve- or thirteen-year-old kid to 
say!  Perhaps now that he's in films, he's boning up on some of the 
classics, planning to make a career of it.  TAM really is a fabulous 
character study which also deals with issues of justice with which 
our society is still unable to come to terms.

> >And Halle Berry is always beautiful, but that dress was gorgeous. 
>  
> Halle was stunning.  Even in "Monster's Ball," emotionally damaged 
> and with seemingly no makeup and flat hair, she was lovely.  Life 
> just isn't fair. :)

Have you ever seen her NOT look good?  I've seen old photos of her 
in beauty pageants (which she won) and you have to wonder why all of 
the other girls didn't just drop out in despair once they saw HER...

> Gwynneth 
> > Paltrow on the other hand... I'm worried about her.  Clearly she 
> > has no friends.  Even a casual friend would surely have talked 
> > her out of that dress, or at least reminded her that support 
> > *can* be beautiful.
 
She looked great when she won; perhaps she figured she wouldn't be 
in the limelight much, not being a nominee.  It looked like she got 
the make-up artist from "The Royal Tenenbaums" to do her eyes.  
Ick.  When your mother is Blythe Danner, you HAVE to go out of your 
way to look ordinary, is that it?

> And I loved the tribute to Sidney Poitier, who is a 
> prince among actors and among men.

I just had this funny thought today, because of the "Six Degrees of 
Separation" mention I put in an earlier post.  They kept showing 
Will Smith a lot during Poitier's intro (and he was in the film 
about Poitier, as well) and I remembered that in "Six Degrees," for 
which Smith received an Oscar nomination, IIRC, he was playing 
someone pretending to be--wait for it--Sidney Poitier's son!  His 
scam was discovered only when someone did their homework and figured 
out that Poitier didn't have a a son, only daughters.  I loved the 
irony.  (I also thought Smith should have won for that film, as 
Stockard Channing should have also, but it was such a little film I 
wonder whether many people actually saw it.)

As far as the appearance of people at the awards, I think that 
Sandra Bullock was a complete class-act and showed Gwyneth Paltrow 
that you don't have to be nominated to show up at the Oscars looking 
like you care about not looking like a frump...

--Barb
 





From kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Mar 28 00:12:32 2002
From: kcawte at kcawte.freeserve.co.uk (Kathryn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:12:32 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Other academy awards
References: <a7tm5c+o8ms@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <005e01c1d5ed$428a2640$4c4786d9@monica>



>I thought the NYC stuff hit just the right tone, and I was shocked 
>and pleased to see Woody Allen, and thrilled that they started off 
>the montage with an excerpt from "Manhatten."  (I also loved the bit 
>with him and Tony Roberts from "Annie Hall.'  One of my favorite 
>moments in the movies.)  In retrospect, it would have been nice if 
>there had been some mention of DC, but I can certainly understand 
>how it happened, since the folks in the entertainment industry only 
>actually beleve in the existence of two cities, LA and NY. ;)

One (or possibly both) of the planes that crashed in NY were heading for the west coast so I gues that affected the Hollywood types more too.
Jonathan Ross (or possibly Greg Proops) mentioned that it was nice that WA got to pay tribute to NY and plug his films at the same time. Although to be fair I imagine the selection process went something along the lines of - let's list all the films featuring NY, now cross of the ones where something major gets blown up ... Bearing in mind how much Hollywood seems to have been avoiding anything that might seem in any way offensive I'm surprised they put in King Kong!

>And I also loved the clip of Daniel Radcliffe (did they film him on 
>the set of CoS?) saying how much he liked "Twelve Angry Men," the 
>first black and white film he'd ever seen!  What a great choice, and 
>totally not what you'd expect a twelve- or thirteen-year-old kid to 
>say!  Perhaps now that he's in films, he's boning up on some of the 
>classics, planning to make a career of it.  TAM really is a fabulous 
>character study which also deals with issues of justice with which 
>our society is still unable to come to terms.

I was really impressed. He came across as being really intelligent. It was a good choice.


> And I loved the tribute to Sidney Poitier, who is a 
> prince among actors and among men.


I liked Whoopie's comments about black actors apparently having nothing to say about Robert Redfore because I'd sat through the tribute to SP (which I too loved) thinking, "I know he was a role model/hero for a lot of today's coloured actors but don't any white actors have anything to say about him?" It seemed like they thought only black actors could possibly have a valid opinion.

K
Remember, amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 01:37:39 2002
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:37:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Oh, sad.  :-(
In-Reply-To: <A808325F58@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <20020328013739.36723.qmail@web13703.mail.yahoo.com>


 
  Rachel Bray <bray.262 at osu.edu> wrote: 
Dudley Moore died.  :-(  

That is sad. He was so good in Arthur! Loved him on The Muppets Show too! Today was my day for reading sad news. First I found out that John Thaw died last month through my PBS monthly magazine. He made a great Inspector Morse. Now to read about Dudley Moore. Maybe your right about him having peace from all his sickness. Hope his family are holding up under such a sad day for them and his many fans.

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Band of Sad Muggles today



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 01:44:10 2002
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:44:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: 1 year anniversary
Message-ID: <20020328014411.37804.qmail@web13703.mail.yahoo.com>


Everybody has to know this, Mecki has a 1 year anniversary this Friday with this great and wonderful group of HPFGU'S! So to jump on the bandwagon early, HAPPY ANNIVERSARY TO MECKI ! Pass the butterbeer and lots of chocolate frogs! What a year!

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Band of Very Merry Muggles 100% for Mecki 



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From boggles at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 28 02:48:49 2002
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:48:49 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: What's in a name?
In-Reply-To: <a7t2pk+u038@eGroups.com>
References: <a7t2pk+u038@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <p05010401b8c834853bd4@[66.32.50.227]>

At 6:24 PM +0000 3/27/02, davewitley wrote:
>
>Just to clarify, in UK, and, apparently, ANZ English, randy means
>roughly what horny means in the US.

Er . . . it means that here, too, although I suppose it's a _little_ 
less risque in tone here than "horny" is.  "Leonard and Larry" had a 
bit part character named "Randy Roberta," and never had to explain 
what that meant.

Or is this a Southern US thing?

-- 
  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles at earthlink.net
=== Personal Growth Geek Code v0.4 ===
GG++ !T A-- M++s--- g+ B- C- P++++ a- b- h+ her++ E+ N n++ i f+
c++ S%++++&&># D R++ xc++ xm+ xi+ yd++ ys++(-) rt+ ro+ rp++++ rjk<+
ow+++ ofn+ oft++ op++ esk-- ey+ ek+++ pl++ pf++ pe++ U!



From ganvira at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 28 06:57:58 2002
From: ganvira at earthlink.net (Terry van Ettinger)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:57:58 -0800
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re:  Put-Outer
References: <a7ticp+hliq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1d625$f276f1e0$b995cd18@charterpipeline.com>

I do similar things myself.  I've had things where I didn't know what to
call them, so I'd call them a foo-bar-er.  I don't recall the occurrence of
the put-outer, so I don't recall what it did, but it's possible that JKR was
trying to give the impression of something that people really hadn't
effectively named, so they just came up with something and that's what
stuck.

Terry

From: "davewitley" <dfrankiswork at netscape.net>


> It may be cultural.  To my half-English ears, it does not seem
> clunky.  My son has a little gadget that Lego supply to take apart
> bricks that are jammed together.  It has no name so we call it the
> taker-aparter.  I think inventions of that sort are fairly common
> here.  Washer-upper for example.
>
> I agree it is of a different type to Pensieve.
>
> Is that not true in the US?  Can UK people confirm?
>
> Answers may have to drift in the general direction of OT.
>
> David
>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any list, you MUST read the group's Admin File!
> http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/admin
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material
from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods --
MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
> Unsubscribing? Email hpforgrownups-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




From voicelady at mymailstation.com  Thu Mar 28 11:01:47 2002
From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:01:47 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] 1 year anniversary
Message-ID: <id.28032002070147.00000@FPE>

Happy Anniversary, Mecki!



From coriolan at worldnet.att.net  Thu Mar 28 12:30:53 2002
From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (coriolan_cmc2001)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:30:53 -0000
Subject: Gnome Liberation Front
Message-ID: <a7v2dt+s38q@eGroups.com>

Life imitates art (JKR-art in this instance)

http://www.kazm.net/gnomes/

  - CMC




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 28 13:38:41 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:38:41 -0000
Subject: And the winner is...
In-Reply-To: <a7r1r1+lt9s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7v6d1+39q2@eGroups.com>

We have a nominee for Mr. April.  Can we get a round of applause 
for...

...Dave Hardenbrook!

Dave, please report to studio 7 for your photo shoot.  And do describe 
for all your fans what you'll be wearing.  Might I suggest a pose 
behind a discreetly high pile of Oz, LMA and HP books?

;-)
Bert Parks




From wynnde1 at aol.com  Thu Mar 28 12:33:29 2002
From: wynnde1 at aol.com (wynnde1 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:33:29 EST
Subject: Degrees (was Other Academy Awards)
Message-ID: <5b.2549cb67.29d46799@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 11:22:39 AM GMT Standard Time, 
HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com writes:


> > I was in a high-school student film with a musician who was in a 
> > college student film with a theater major who later was in a film 
> > with the kid who played Josh's best friend in _Big_ (I think his name 
> > was David Moscow).  Thus, playing fast and loose with the definition 
> > of "actor" and "movie," I have a Kevin Bacon number of 5.  ;)
> 
> My ex-nanny's best friend is Eliza Dushku.  Faith from Buffy.  I met her.  
> ;-)
> 
> 

This is my first post here (haven't even posted to the main HP4GU group yet), 
and I'm somewhat embarrassed to be making my first post on this subject 
instead of saying something wildly profound and meaningful about Harry Potter 
<ggg> but I just LOVE this whole degrees thing. <G> I'm sure I can get to 
Kevin Bacon in 4, maybe even 3, but I'll need some help - (I'm actually not 
much of a KB fan, so I don't know much about his movies - I just love the 
concept of being degrees away from people). Actually, it seems that it would 
be difficult to be more than 6 or 7 degrees away from anyone on the planet 
(maybe that's the point of the whole thing, after all).

Here's me: When I was little and growing up in Los Angeles (somewhere around 
four years old), I had a piano teacher named Rose Perente (sp?). Years later, 
she played one of the nuns in "Sister Act" with Whoopi Goldberg. So that puts 
me just 2 degrees from Whoopi, who knows TONS of people in Hollywood! And 
around the world, for that matter! Has Whoopi been in a movie with KB? And if 
not, then what would be the next closest connection? I know it does get me to 
three with another of my fav actors - Jeremy Irons (Lion King). 

Also, just how close do you have to be to make that first connection? Does a 
45 -second conversation with Alan Rickman at the stage door of the Albury 
Theatre count? I did actually speak to him and he responded, and I said 
something else and he laughed. Does this get me 1 degree to Alan Rickman? 
This won't likely get me closer to Kevin Bacon any quicker, but I'd rather be 
close to AR than KB any day! ;-)

:-)
Wynnde

Wynnde A. St. John
Gullane, East Lothian, Scotland
<A HREF="wynnde1 at aol.com">wynnde1 at aol.com</A>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





From moongirlk at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 17:54:07 2002
From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:54:07 -0000
Subject: Oh, sad.  :-(, and more sad
In-Reply-To: <20020328013739.36723.qmail@web13703.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a7vlbv+gfs2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., Wanda Mallett <witchwanda2002 at y...> 
wrote:
> 
>  
>   Rachel Bray <bray.262 at o...> wrote: 
> Dudley Moore died.  :-(  
> 
> That is sad. He was so good in Arthur! Loved him on The Muppets 
Show too! Today was my day for reading sad news. First I found out 
that John Thaw died last month through my PBS monthly magazine. He 
made a great Inspector Morse. Now to read about Dudley Moore. Maybe 
your right about him having peace from all his sickness. Hope his 
family are holding up under such a sad day for them and his many fans.
> 

I was pretty young when I saw Arthur - I don't think I got a lot of 
the humor, but I still thought he was funny.  I also read today that 
Milton Berle died yesterday.  Sad to loose an icon of early 
USAmerican television even if I don't really know what he did.

kimberly
caught between the moon and NYC







From nesbitaa at purdue.edu  Thu Mar 28 17:57:37 2002
From: nesbitaa at purdue.edu (oboakk)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:57:37 -0000
Subject: Degrees (was Other Academy Awards)
In-Reply-To: <5b.2549cb67.29d46799@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a7vlih+e9s0@eGroups.com>

Wynnde:
> Here's me: When I was little and growing up in Los Angele(somewhere 
>around four years old), I had a piano teacher named Rose Perente     
>(sp?). Years later, she played one of the nuns in "Sister Act" with 
>Whoopi Goldberg. So that puts me just 2 degrees from Whoopi, who 
>knows TONS of people in Hollywood! And around the world, for that 
>matter! Has Whoopi been in a movie with KB? 


A great site to check for movies actors/actresses have been in 
together is the Internet Movie database (http://us.imdb.com or the UK 
version, http://uk.imdb.com).  I checked out Kevin Bacon and Whoopi 
Goldberg, they were both in some movie called "Destination Anywhere" 
which I had never heard of.

Hmm...this may be a bit of a stretch:
My uncle the extra in "Hoosiers" to Barbara Hershey (same movie, but 
I don't think he actually met her).  Barbara Hershey to Noah Wyle 
in "Swing Kids".  Noah Wyle to Kevin Bacon in "A Few Good Men."  So 
that's 4 to Kevin Bacon...and only 3 to Noah Wyle!

Abby




From voicelady at mymailstation.com  Thu Mar 28 20:13:49 2002
From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:13:49 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: One Degree of Kevin Bacon
Message-ID: <id.28032002161349.00000@FPE>

A number of years ago while I was working for Macy*s Special Productions Department (parade, fireworks, flower show, etc.), he and I had a lovely conversation one evening.  The people I worked for knew I grew up near Philly, and introduced us.  Very nice guy, and extremely bright.

Jeralyn, the Voicelady



From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 28 22:04:02 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:04:02 -0000
Subject: One Degree of Kevin Bacon
In-Reply-To: <id.28032002161349.00000@FPE>
Message-ID: <a8040i+c16j@eGroups.com>

Jeralyn, the Voicelady wrote:
> A number of years ago while I was working for Macy*s Special 
Productions Department (parade, fireworks, flower show, etc.), he and 
I had a lovely conversation one evening.  The people I worked for 
knew I grew up near Philly, and introduced us.  Very nice guy, and 
extremely bright.

Hey everyone, this means we're all Two Degrees of Kevin Bacon!

Amy




From DaveH47 at mindspring.com  Thu Mar 28 22:46:41 2002
From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (davehoz)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:46:41 -0000
Subject: And the winner is...
In-Reply-To: <a7v6d1+39q2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a806gh+6h4c@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "lupinesque" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> We have a nominee for Mr. April.  Can we get a round of applause 
> for...
> 
> ...Dave Hardenbrook!
> 
> Dave, please report to studio 7 for your photo shoot.  And do 
describe 
> for all your fans what you'll be wearing.  Might I suggest a pose 
> behind a discreetly high pile of Oz, LMA and HP books?
> 
> ;-)
> Bert Parks

* Bows *  Thank you.  :)  

I approve of the suggested setting for the photo shoot, and
I will wear my "Snape robes" I wore last Halloween. :)

--
Dave





From s_ings at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 23:11:10 2002
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:11:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Happy Birthday, Kim
In-Reply-To: <5b.2549cb67.29d46799@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020328231110.95469.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com>

Birthday wishes today are going out to Kim B.!

I searched the members list, but couldn't find an
email address to match the entry on the birthday list,
so my apologies to Kim if it's there and I've
overlooked the obvious. 

Happy Birthday, Kim!

Wishing you everything magical,
Sheryll

=====
"We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times."
 blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26

______________________________________________________________________ 
Find, Connect, Date! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From triner918 at aol.com  Fri Mar 29 01:13:10 2002
From: triner918 at aol.com (triner2001)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:13:10 -0000
Subject: Degrees of Kevin Bacon
Message-ID: <a80f36+o380@eGroups.com>

If I don't count the Jeralyn factor, I have a KB degree of 4--

My brother, a production assistent in LA, worked on a KFC commercial 
with Jason Alexander (he even got to be JA's stand-in!).  Jason 
Alexander was in "Pretty Woman" with Julia Roberts, who was 
in "Flatliners" with Kevin Bacon.  

I only realized this when y'all started the game!  And, for even more 
information, there actually exists a 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon board 
game, which I have thanks to a friend...

Trina




From amy at pressroom.com  Fri Mar 29 01:23:45 2002
From: amy at pressroom.com (Amy Gourley)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:23:45 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Degrees of Kevin Bacon
References: <a80f36+o380@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <00cb01c1d6c0$5f837480$b17ba8c0@amy>

I love the whole six degrees thing! My friend loves movies and knows a lot
about them and we like to try to link any two actors in six degrees. I also
play it with my husband on car trips. This is a neat research project about
6 degrees http://smallworld.sociology.columbia.edu/

Amy





From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 04:49:32 2002
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:49:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Birthday, Kim
In-Reply-To: <20020328231110.95469.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020329044932.69667.qmail@web13703.mail.yahoo.com>


 
  Sheryll Townsend <s_ings at yahoo.com> wrote: 
Birthday wishes today are going out to Kim B.!



Have a very HAPPY BIRTHDAY! May all your Birthday wishes come true and hope your day was extra special!

Schnoogles,

Wanda the Witch of Revere,Massachusetts and Her Very Merry Band of Muggles 100%



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send greetings for Easter,  Passover

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From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 05:07:56 2002
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:07:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Oh, sad.  :-(, Milton Berle
In-Reply-To: <a7vlbv+gfs2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020329050756.25946.qmail@web13705.mail.yahoo.com>


 
  moongirlk <moongirlk at yahoo.com> wrote: 
I also read today that Milton Berle died yesterday.  Sad to loose an icon of early 
USAmerican television even if I don't really know what he did.

kimberly
caught between the moon and NYC

He was known as Mr. Television! His show during the 50's was done live and all the bloopers along with it! I don't remember seeing his show, I was born in 1953. But he did tons of guest spots on a lot of other shows. He was great for a gag! To include dressing up as a woman! Ugly, but a real laugh riot! He was also Bette Midler's favorite stand-up comedian. When she played the lead witch in Disney's Hocus Pocus, the teeth reminded one of Uncle Miltie. He was great wearing goofy teeth like that. Hope this explains a little bit about that great comedian.

Schnoogles,

Wanda the Witch of Revere,Massachusetts and Her Sad Muggles about losing so many:(






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From plumeski at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 25 04:18:19 2002
From: plumeski at yahoo.com (GulPlum)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 04:18:19 -0000
Subject: Academy Awards
In-Reply-To: <a7m7co+dn9d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7m8eb+9s1c@eGroups.com>

"shahara9" <NOTaMuggleFamily at a...> wrote:
> 
> Well, darn it, HP didn't win a thing!  But LoTR won several.  I 
can't 
> believe Moulin Rough won for Costume...gosh, I myself could outfit 
a 
> cast of sleezies from our local thrift shop, it was hardly is an 
award 
> winnng effort!  And LoTR got best musical score...I hadn't heard 
that 
> soundtrack, was it good?  (My kids didn't remember and I didn't 
want 
> to sit thru the movie with a baby!) I thought surly HP would 
win...I 
> adored John Williams music, so very magical and transportive.
> Grrr...maybe next year with Chamber of Secrets!

I agree re. Moulin Rouge's costume award - my vote and expectation 
had always been for Gosford Park. As I disliked the HP would-be 
traditional UK school uniforms from the beginning, I never really 
wanted it to win anyway.

As for score - I'm a huge movie film fan and I adored Shore's work on 
LOTR (not so much Enya's song - heck, she's singing it as I type!). 
Williams' work on HP1 was mediocre by his standards and was probably 
written in his sleep. In melodic terms, it's a "best of JW" and very 
unoriginal. It also did something music shouldn't do in films and 
overwhlem what's going on (something JW does quite often). I wasn't 
surprised it was nominated because it was very in-your-face, but I'm 
not in the slightest bit surprised it didn't win. The Williams fans 
in the Academy votes were also probably split by his being nominated 
twice.

P.S. Did anyone else notice how much Daniel Radcliffe has changed in 
the last few months when he did his "my favourite film" bit?

Unless someone else does it, I might make some vidcaps (I'm watching 
the show live but recording it for someone else)...






From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 25 21:13:56 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:13:56 -0000
Subject: MST3k references
In-Reply-To: <4a.8b482d2.29d064b7@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a7o3uk+12i0@eGroups.com>

Aegeus informations:

<<
MST3k is Mystery Science Theater 3000. The basic plot
is that these people are trapped in a spaceship and
forced to watch bad sci-fi movies, of which they
comment on incessantly. It's really quite funny.
Another fun thing to do is MST very bad fics from
FanFiction.net (though they don't actually do that on
the show).
>>

Yep, Aegeus and Wanda have done a bang-up job desribing
the indescribable glory of MST3k. I just wanted to add
a couple of notes about the terminology and the fanfic
version:

MST3k - the show
MSTies - the fans
MiSTing - the act of joking your way through bad art

It really amuses me that MST3k fanfiction should take
the form of MiSTing, rather than actual stories. It's
just so much in the spirit of the show. ^^

If you're interested in dipping your toe in text-based
MiSTings, check out Web Site #9:

http://www.masemware.com/mst3k/mistings.shtml

I recommend sorting by Ratings first, then picking one
from a fandom you like. Unfortunately, there are no
Harry Potter fics. Well, there are some in existence,
but they use the HP characters, and that just ain't
right. Kids today! Don't know their roots! Of course,
the other side of that coin is that the HP fandom has
been ignored utterly by writers who do "standard"
(Mike or Joel + the 'bots) MiSTings. Sigh.

--Anna (going to read "The Triumph of the Retart," which
is up for a couple of awards this year)




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Fri Mar 29 05:54:24 2002
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (duranduran88)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 05:54:24 -0000
Subject: Degrees of Kevin Bacon
In-Reply-To: <a80f36+o380@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a80vig+7dem@eGroups.com>

I'm three degrees from Kevin Bacon.

My best friend was an extra on SeaQuest for a year with Don Franklin.
Don Franklin was in The Big Picture with Kevin Bacon.

OR:

I'm two degrees from Kevin Bacon.

My best friend was at Matthew Perry's birthday party (she used to be 
his assistant) and Kevin Bacon was there...but she didn't meet him.  
BUT...he was there.  So...that's kinda two degrees.  :-)

My friends and I pass the time on long drives playing 6 Degrees from 
Kevin Bacon.  We love it.  Two of us are really really good at it.  
Then again, I don't have much of a life and watch a lot of movies. ha 
ha.






From foxmoth at qnet.com  Fri Mar 29 06:38:28 2002
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 06:38:28 -0000
Subject: Degrees (was Other Academy Awards)
In-Reply-To: <a7vlih+e9s0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a81254+9it9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "oboakk" <nesbitaa at p...> wrote:
 So that puts me just 2 degrees from Whoopi, who 
> >knows TONS of people in Hollywood! And around the world, 
for that >matter! Has Whoopi been in a movie with KB? 
> 
> 
> A great site to check for movies actors/actresses have been in 
> together is the Internet Movie database (http://us.imdb.com or 
the UK  version, http://uk.imdb.com).  I checked out Kevin Bacon 
and Whoopi  Goldberg, they were both in some movie called 
"Destination Anywhere"  which I had never heard of.

Okay, I'm two degrees from Whoopi. My BIL who was working as 
a designer for pinball machines, met her at a premiere party for 
one of the Terminator movies, and got to play pinball with her. So 
that puts me three degrees from KB. 

Pippin




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Fri Mar 29 09:54:44 2002
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catorman)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:54:44 -0000
Subject: Degrees of Kevin Bacon
In-Reply-To: <a80f36+o380@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a81dl4+tg3o@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "triner2001" <triner918 at a...> wrote:
> If I don't count the Jeralyn factor, I have a KB degree of 4--
> 
> My brother, a production assistent in LA, worked on a KFC 
commercial 
> with Jason Alexander (he even got to be JA's stand-in!).  Jason 
> Alexander was in "Pretty Woman" with Julia Roberts, who was 
> in "Flatliners" with Kevin Bacon.  
> 
> I only realized this when y'all started the game!  And, for even 
more 
> information, there actually exists a 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon board 
> game, which I have thanks to a friend...
> 
> Trina

I have 5 degrees:

I'm acquainted with Adrian Lukis, who amongst other things played 
Captain Wickham in BBC's Pride and Prejudice.  He worked with Colin 
Firth (swoon) in P and P, who was in Bridget Jones' Diary with Hugh 
Grant, who was in Notting Hill with Julia Roberts, who was in 
Flatliners with Kevin Bacon.

Does this count?  Not sure if I've got the rules right.

Catherine




From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk  Fri Mar 29 09:57:28 2002
From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catorman)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:57:28 -0000
Subject: Degrees of Kevin Bacon
In-Reply-To: <a81dl4+tg3o@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a81dq8+53dn@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "catorman" <catherine at c...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "triner2001" <triner918 at a...> wrote:
> > If I don't count the Jeralyn factor, I have a KB degree of 4--
> > 
> > My brother, a production assistent in LA, worked on a KFC 
> commercial 
> > with Jason Alexander (he even got to be JA's stand-in!).  Jason 
> > Alexander was in "Pretty Woman" with Julia Roberts, who was 
> > in "Flatliners" with Kevin Bacon.  
> > 
> > I only realized this when y'all started the game!  And, for even 
> more 
> > information, there actually exists a 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon 
board 
> > game, which I have thanks to a friend...
> > 
> > Trina
> 
> I have 5 degrees:
> 
> I'm acquainted with Adrian Lukis, who amongst other things played 
> Captain Wickham in BBC's Pride and Prejudice.  He worked with Colin 
> Firth (swoon) in P and P, who was in Bridget Jones' Diary with Hugh 
> Grant, who was in Notting Hill with Julia Roberts, who was in 
> Flatliners with Kevin Bacon.
> 
> Does this count?  Not sure if I've got the rules right.
> 
> Catherine

Actually, I've just realised that the above makes me 2 degrees from 
Colin Firth, which is much, much more important!

Catherine again




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 29 10:01:04 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:01:04 -0000
Subject: Degrees of Kevin Bacon
In-Reply-To: <a81dq8+53dn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a81e10+oj6a@eGroups.com>

Catherine wrote:

> Actually, I've just realised that the above makes me 2 degrees from 
> Colin Firth, which is much, much more important!

I was just going to write that exact same thing!

Amy
(yes, you have the rules right)




From bludger_witch at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 10:35:48 2002
From: bludger_witch at yahoo.com (Dinah)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:35:48 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Degrees (was Other Academy Awards)
References: <a81254+9it9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <00d701c1d70d$81d9dd10$129407d5@Dinah>

Hey, that even works for me! (I'm honestly surprised here.)


I met Jeri Ryan, who did a photoshoot with Lucy Lawless, who worked with
Renee O'Connor, who was in Darkman 2 with  (forgot who) who was in (forgot
what) with Kevin Bacon. Tadaa! It's scary, though. (and a bit cheated since
I forgot how one link was called).

There's something better about this: Renee was with Elijah Wood in Huck
Finn. Heh.So I'm linked to Eli, which is cool.

 ~  Dinah ~

GILES: We'll all get our memory back, and it'll all be right as rain.
SPIKE: Oh, listen to Mary Poppins. He's got his crust all stiff and upper
with that nancy-boy accent. You Englishmen are always so... Bloody hell!
...Sodding, blimey, shagging, knickers, bollocks, oh God! I'm English!
GILES: Welcome to the nancy tribe. (Tabula Rasa, BTVS)



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From bludger_witch at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 10:42:42 2002
From: bludger_witch at yahoo.com (Dinah)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:42:42 +0100
Subject: BTVS-Fans, take a peek, please...
Message-ID: <00e401c1d70e$77387ff0$129407d5@Dinah>

Huh?

http://us.imdb.com/Title?0289834

Not that I wouldn't be in heaven if it were true (6.8, I'll stop watching, thank you very much), but I guess this is a hoax someone put up, right? I mean, I pondered the possibilites for just such a series (it was a plot-bunny, actually), but still I can't see them doing it. Would be very cool, though.

  ~ Dinah ~

BUFFY: Did you know about this?
GILES: No. Unless I blocked it from my memory, much as I will Xander's vigorous use of his tongue. 
Giles removes his glasses and begins to clean them. Buffy watches this with an expression of outrage. 
BUFFY: Is that why you're always cleaning your glasses? So you don't have to see what we're doing?
GILES: Tell no one.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From meboriqua at aol.com  Fri Mar 29 12:55:52 2002
From: meboriqua at aol.com (jenny_ravenclaw)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:55:52 -0000
Subject: Yes, Jews Do Exist
Message-ID: <a81o8o+fisb@eGroups.com>

Hey everyone -

Yesterday I was on the phone with the offices of my bank that are 
located somewhere else in the country (I live in NYC).  When the 
operator got on the phone to help me, he asked for my case number and 
my name, which was fine, of course.  When I told him, he said, 
strangely excited "That sounds like a Jewish name!", as if he couldn't 
believe he was actually talking to a real live Jew.  Unfortunately, I 
wasn't quick enough to come up with a better response than "Yes, I 
am".  What I should have said was "Yes, we do exist... and we don't 
have horns either".    

Yesterday was not my best day.

--jenny from ravenclaw**************************************




From macloudt at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 29 13:37:50 2002
From: macloudt at hotmail.com (Mary Jennings)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:37:50 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Yes, Jews Do Exist
Message-ID: <F128qqjDF9kw62BgDMo0001bf85@hotmail.com>

Hassled Jenny from Ravenclaw wrote:

>Yesterday I was on the phone with the offices of my bank that are
>located somewhere else in the country (I live in NYC).  When the
>operator got on the phone to help me, he asked for my case number and
>my name, which was fine, of course.  When I told him, he said,
>strangely excited "That sounds like a Jewish name!", as if he couldn't
>believe he was actually talking to a real live Jew.  Unfortunately, I
>wasn't quick enough to come up with a better response than "Yes, I
>am".  What I should have said was "Yes, we do exist... and we don't
>have horns either".

Congratulations, Mr. Big Duh Operator, you are this week's winner of the 
Incredibly Stupid and Dumb Beyond Belief award!

Sheesh, talk about inbred.

And I hope you're having a lovely Passover holiday, Jenny :)

Mary Ann
(who, as an Canadian ex-patriot, has been asked "Did the snow ever melt?" 
more times than she cares to remember)

_________________________________________________________________
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From dairyspice at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 29 14:06:56 2002
From: dairyspice at hotmail.com (burgbarbl)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:06:56 -0000
Subject: BTVS-Fans, take a peek, please...
In-Reply-To: <00e401c1d70e$77387ff0$129407d5@Dinah>
Message-ID: <a81se0+vjao@eGroups.com>

Dinah wrote:

> http://us.imdb.com/Title?0289834
> 
> Not that I wouldn't be in heaven if it were true (6.8, I'll stop 
watching, thank you very much), but I guess this is a hoax someone 
put up, right? I mean, I pondered the possibilites for just such a 
series (it was a plot-bunny, actually), but still I can't see them 
doing it. Would be very cool, though.>

That actually isn't a hoax. There is potentially going to be a show 
called Ripper. It would be completely based in Britain, and, I 
believe, air on the BBC. However, though Joss has written at least 
one script for it, Ripper has been put on hold while Joss focuses on 
other things (e.g., the Buffy cartoon).

                         -BarbL-




From dairyspice at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 29 14:09:17 2002
From: dairyspice at hotmail.com (burgbarbl)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:09:17 -0000
Subject: Degrees of Kevin Bacon
In-Reply-To: <a80vig+7dem@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a81sid+tmvg@eGroups.com>

Hmm, I'm trying to figure out how far I am from Kevin Bacon. Well, my 
sister saw him at F.A.O. Schwartz in New York once, so that would put 
me two away.

But I really want to figure out how far it is from Edward Norton to 
Kevin Bacon. One of my friends from college is Ed Norton's first 
cousin. So I'm two away from Ed Norton. Any takers to get from there 
to KB? I'm dreadful at this...

                       -BarbL-




From catalyna_99 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 14:39:11 2002
From: catalyna_99 at yahoo.com (Cat)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 06:39:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] BTVS-Fans, take a peek, please...
In-Reply-To: <00e401c1d70e$77387ff0$129407d5@Dinah>
Message-ID: <20020329143911.45350.qmail@web10705.mail.yahoo.com>

I don't think it is a hoax.  I had read an article on
Anthony Stuart Head and he does mention the new
series. It said he left the series to go back to
England to spend more time with his children. I
thought the series would be on British TV and not
American.  

Cat
--- Dinah <bludger_witch at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Huh?
> 
> http://us.imdb.com/Title?0289834
> 
> Not that I wouldn't be in heaven if it were true
> (6.8, I'll stop watching, thank you very much), but
> I guess this is a hoax someone put up, right? I
> mean, I pondered the possibilites for just such a
> series (it was a plot-bunny, actually), but still I
> can't see them doing it. Would be very cool, though.
> 
>   ~ Dinah ~
> 
> BUFFY: Did you know about this?
> GILES: No. Unless I blocked it from my memory, much
> as I will Xander's vigorous use of his tongue. 
> Giles removes his glasses and begins to clean them.
> Buffy watches this with an expression of outrage. 
> BUFFY: Is that why you're always cleaning your
> glasses? So you don't have to see what we're doing?
> GILES: Tell no one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> 
> 


=====
Cat

Life's like a movie. Write your own ending. Keep believing, keep pretending.--Kermit the Frog

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/



From moongirlk at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 15:23:14 2002
From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:23:14 -0000
Subject: Degrees (was Other Academy Awards)
In-Reply-To: <a81254+9it9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a820t2+q99b@eGroups.com>

I finally figured it out.  I didn't think there were enough degrees 
to get me there until I remembered that my friend Glynnis has done 
extra work in a few movies.  She's visible in the airport scene 
in "For Love of the Game", but even better, last time we got together 
she told me about meeting Julia Roberts on a set, so YAY! That makes 
me to Glynnis, Glynnis to Julia, Julia to Kevin - three degrees.  
Wheee - I can play too!

kimberly


--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "oboakk" <nesbitaa at p...> wrote:
>  So that puts me just 2 degrees from Whoopi, who 
> > >knows TONS of people in Hollywood! And around the world, 
> for that >matter! Has Whoopi been in a movie with KB? 
> > 
> > 
> > A great site to check for movies actors/actresses have been in 
> > together is the Internet Movie database (http://us.imdb.com or 
> the UK  version, http://uk.imdb.com).  I checked out Kevin Bacon 
> and Whoopi  Goldberg, they were both in some movie called 
> "Destination Anywhere"  which I had never heard of.
> 
> Okay, I'm two degrees from Whoopi. My BIL who was working as 
> a designer for pinball machines, met her at a premiere party for 
> one of the Terminator movies, and got to play pinball with her. So 
> that puts me three degrees from KB. 
> 
> Pippin




From bludger_witch at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 15:22:47 2002
From: bludger_witch at yahoo.com (Dinah)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:22:47 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: BTVS-Fans, take a peek, please...
References: <a81se0+vjao@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <003e01c1d735$989366c0$7c9507d5@Dinah>

> However, though Joss has written at least
> one script for it, Ripper has been put on hold while Joss focuses on
> other things (e.g., the Buffy cartoon).
>                          -BarbL-

Thanks for the update! I did some diggin' on this and found more
information... but: put on hold? For a darn cartoon series? *begins to bawl*
Awww, shucks.

D**


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From editor at texas.net  Fri Mar 29 16:28:57 2002
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:28:57 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Yes, Jews Do Exist
References: <a81o8o+fisb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <005201c1d73e$d4d5a540$5a7c63d1@texas.net>

Jenny said

> When I told him, he said,
> strangely excited "That sounds like a Jewish name!", as if he couldn't
> believe he was actually talking to a real live Jew.  Unfortunately, I
> wasn't quick enough to come up with a better response than "Yes, I
> am".  What I should have said was "Yes, we do exist... and we don't
> have horns either".

But my best friend married a nice Jewish boy from New York, and she says he
does.....maybe that's the New York influence...?

--Amanda "some of my best friends are Jewish" Geist




From saintbacchus at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 25 08:24:31 2002
From: saintbacchus at yahoo.com (saintbacchus)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:24:31 -0000
Subject: Red Dwarf
In-Reply-To: <20020324002010.98287.qmail@web13707.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a7mmrv+o148@eGroups.com>

Wanda the Witch gives me exciting news!
<<
Anna, the boys and I did check out your site and have
it bookmarked! Also the Uk site mentioned the
production of the movie! It is going to be released in
December around Christmas this year! I hope it picks
up where series VIII ended. Lister, Cat, and Kryton,
and of course Chrissie, went through the mirror. A
real cliff hanger! There might be DVD's of the shows
that can be ordered through the UK. Just go to
www.reddwarf.co.uk and you'll read about he movie too.
I know they have the tapes and I think dvd's. You'll
know when you go to the site.
>>

Glad you liked my site! :)) Rimmer's my favorite
character. Possibly that makes me a weirdo, but what
can you do? 

The movie is due out THIS YEAR?? I didn't know that!
Now I have just one more reason to wait for the
Christmas movie season! *twitch* *squirm* Oh, I can't
wait! I hope the movie picks up at the series end,
too. That was awesome. I'm pretty sure that DVDs don't
exist, but even if they did in England, I'd have to
get a region 2 player. *sigh* Same with VHS tapes,
though. At least those are out here.

--Anna




From editor at texas.net  Fri Mar 29 16:45:19 2002
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:45:19 -0600
Subject: OT but Important-->Check your yahoo profile to avoid spam
Message-ID: <007e01c1d741$1e63fd40$5a7c63d1@texas.net>

I apologize; I ordinarily neither forward things nor spread alarmist
messages. In this case I believe it is warranted. The following came from a
quite reliable listmember of another Yahoo group I'm on. He verified it, and
I just have.

I know not all the main list members are on the peripheral lists, hence my
post to everyone.

What I think must have happened is that when Yahoo did its "routine
maintenance" or whatever, when the groups were down for a weekend a little
bit ago, everyone's marketing preferences got reset.

Everyone's in for a World O'Spam, in virtual *and* actual modes (it re-set
the ways you get information delivered to include via U.S. mail and phone!)
unless they go change it back. I just had to re-set mine. Instructions on
how to fix this egregious invasion are in the forwarded message below.

--Amandageist

----- Original Message -----
From: "Blaise de Cormeilles"
Subject: check your yahoo profile to avoid spam


> ----- Forwarded message from a Yahoo group -----
>
> **If you're using Yahoogroups (and you probably are, since this list
> is run through Yahoogroups), make sure you go and change your profile.
> Yahoo has just made a sneaky change to everybody's 'Marketing
> Preferences', the result of which will be a load of spam. To change
> them back here's what you need to do to avoid all the ads:
>
> Go to My Groups and click on Account Info, verify your password if it
> asks you to, and your Yahoo ID card comes up. Click on 'Edit your
> Marketing Preferences' and change ALL the Yes buttons to NO.
> Click Save Changes.
>
> I've done mine already, and I was shocked to see what they'd signed me
> up to receive without telling me! If you actually gave them your
> address and phone # in your profile, they've signed you up for phone
> and postal spam as well as email.  Make sure they are marked NO as
> well.**
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
>
> This applies to anyone who has *any* form of Yahoo ID -- groups,
> messenger, email...  I've confirmed that it's for real.
>
> Blaise
> --
> Jim Trigg, Lord High Everything Else  O-    /"\
> SKA Seigneur Blaise de Cormeilles           \ /  ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN
> Silver Nautilus Pursuivant, Atlantia         X    HELP CURE HTML MAIL
> Webmaster, Academy of S. Gabriel            / \
>




From devin.smither at yale.edu  Fri Mar 29 18:16:30 2002
From: devin.smither at yale.edu (uilnslcoap)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:16:30 -0000
Subject: Ed to Kevin, short and long
In-Reply-To: <a81sid+tmvg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a82b1u+r8jk@eGroups.com>

> But I really want to figure out how far it is from Edward Norton to 
> Kevin Bacon. One of my friends from college is Ed Norton's first 
> cousin. So I'm two away from Ed Norton. Any takers to get from 
there 
> to KB? I'm dreadful at this...
> 
>                        -BarbL-

Okay.

Edward Norton was in Fight Club with Brad Pitt
Brad Pitt was in Ocean's Eleven with Julia Roberts
Julia Roberts was in Flatliners with Kevin Bacon 

Two degrees from Ed to Kevin, Two degrees from you to Ed.  You're 
four from Kevin Bacon.

But how about something a tad more fun:

Edward Norton was in Fight Club with Meatloaf
Meatloaf was in The Rocky Horror Picture Show with Susan Sarandon
Susan Sarandon was in Stepmom with Julia Roberts
Julia Roberts was in Flatliners with Kevin Bacon

Or better yet:

Edward Norton was in American History X with Fairuza Balk
Fairuza Balk was in The Waterboy with Adam Sandler
Adam Sandler was in Big Daddy with Joey Lauren Adams
Joey Lauren Adams was in Chasing Amy (or Mallrats or Jay and Silent 
Bob Strike Back) with Ben Affleck
Ben Affleck was in Bounce with Gwyneth Paltrow
Gwyneth Paltrow was in Shakespeare in Love with Joseph Fiennes
Joseph Fiennes was in Elizabeth with Cate Blanchett
Cate Blanchett was in LotR with Hugo Weaving
Hugo Weaving was in The Matrix with Keanu Reeves
Keanu Reeves was in Point Break with Lori Petty
Lori Petty was in A League of Their Own with Tom Hanks
Tom Hanks was in Saving Private Ryan (or The Green Mile) with Barry 
Pepper
Barry Pepper was in We Were Soldiers with Chris Klein
Chris Klein was in American Pie (or American Pie 2) with Eugene Levy
Eugene Levy was in Waiting for Guffman with Catherine O'Hara
Catherine O'Hara was in Home Alone with Macaulay Caulkin (sp?)
Macaulay Caulkin was in My Girl with Dan Aykroyd
Dan Aykroyd was in The Blues Brothers with John Belushi
John Belushi was in Animal House with.....Kevin Bacon!

Ahh, that's too much fun.  Sure, there are a number of ways to 
shorten that list, but that takes the fun away.  Has anyone here seen 
The Player?  Pretty damn good movie in its own right, but it takes 
all the fun out of Six Degrees because about 90 celebrities or so are 
in it.  No fair using that movie.  You can get from anyone to anyone 
using that movie (perhaps using characters with more than ten lines 
of dialogue in that movie is okay, but not the cameos).

Devin




From virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 25 21:09:11 2002
From: virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com (virtualworldofhp)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:09:11 -0000
Subject: Academy Awards
In-Reply-To: <a7m7co+dn9d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7o3ln+nbc0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "shahara9" <NOTaMuggleFamily at a...> wrote:
> 
> Well, darn it, HP didn't win a thing!  But LoTR won several.  I can't 
> believe Moulin Rough won for Costume...gosh, I myself could outfit a 
> cast of sleezies from our local thrift shop, it was hardly is an award 
> winnng effort!  


Did you actually SEE _Moulin Rouge_?  The costumes in that movie were
what MADE the movie--that and the Art Direction.  The colors were
beautiful and stunning, while outfitting THAT many people is a feat
with itself.  I was personally rooting for _MR_ to win those artistry
awards because Hollywood hasn't witnessed pageantry of that calibur in
a good while.

-Megan




From dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 19:34:40 2002
From: dizzylizzy182 at yahoo.com (Elizabeth Sager)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:34:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: BarbL to KB
In-Reply-To: <1017414652.222.41301.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020329193440.58496.qmail@web20401.mail.yahoo.com>


> But I really want to figure out how far it is from
> Edward Norton to 
> Kevin Bacon. One of my friends from college is Ed
> Norton's first 
> cousin. So I'm two away from Ed Norton. Any takers
> to get from there 
> to KB? I'm dreadful at this...
> 
>                        -BarbL-

Barb ---> Friend
Friend --> Edward Norton
Edward Norton ---> Brad Pitt in "Fight Club"
Brad Pitt ---> Tom Cruise in "Interview With A
Vampire"
Tom Cruise ---> Kevin Bacon in "A Few Good Men"

:) I've been playing this game since I was thirteen. I
might be only sixteen now, but the only link I've
never succeeded in is Lon Chaney to Kevin Bacon.

Liz (who has no links herself, other than to Kurt Warner)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/



From boggles at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 26 01:56:28 2002
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:56:28 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] MST3k references
In-Reply-To: <20020325191150.34835.qmail@web13705.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020325191150.34835.qmail@web13705.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p05010401b8c5855cce07@[199.174.8.43]>

At 11:11 AM -0800 3/25/02, Wanda Mallett wrote:
>
>I like the show with Mike Nelson! He is on a spaceship called rhe 
>Satellite of Love with a crew of bots(robots).  . . .  The reason 
>why they sit through these movies is to make them brain dead to the 
>point of easy mind control by Pearl Forrester.

Miff, miff.  :(

Or am I showing my age by saying that, while I don't miss the 
original evil sidekick, I prefer my MST with Joel and T.V.'s Frank 
being tortured by the original Dr. Forrester?


-- 
  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles at earthlink.net
=== Personal Growth Geek Code v0.4 ===
GG++ !T A-- M++s--- g+ B- C- P++++ a- b- h+ her++ E+ N n++ i f+
c++ S%++++&&># D R++ xc++ xm+ xi+ yd++ ys++(-) rt+ ro+ rp++++ rjk<+
ow+++ ofn+ oft++ op++ esk-- ey+ ek+++ pl++ pf++ pe++ U!



From plumeski at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 25 05:00:50 2002
From: plumeski at yahoo.com (GulPlum)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 05:00:50 -0000
Subject: Academy Awards
In-Reply-To: <a7m7co+dn9d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a7mau2+mfcn@eGroups.com>

"shahara9" <NOTaMuggleFamily at a...> wrote:
> 
> Well, darn it, HP didn't win a thing!  But LoTR won several.  I 
can't 
> believe Moulin Rough won for Costume...gosh, I myself could outfit 
a 
> cast of sleezies from our local thrift shop, it was hardly is an 
award 
> winnng effort!  And LoTR got best musical score...I hadn't heard 
that 
> soundtrack, was it good?  (My kids didn't remember and I didn't 
want 
> to sit thru the movie with a baby!) I thought surly HP would 
win...I 
> adored John Williams music, so very magical and transportive.
> Grrr...maybe next year with Chamber of Secrets!

I agree re. Moulin Rouge's costume award - my vote and expectation 
had always been for Gosford Park. As I disliked the HP would-be 
traditional UK school uniforms from the beginning, I never really 
wanted it to win anyway.

As for score - I'm a huge movie film fan and I adored Shore's work on 
LOTR (not so much Enya's song - heck, she's singing it as I type!). 
Williams' work on HP1 was mediocre by his standards and was probably 
written in his sleep. In melodic terms, it's a "best of JW" and very 
unoriginal. It also did something music shouldn't do in films and 
overwhlem what's going on (something JW does quite often). I wasn't 
surprised it was nominated because it was very in-your-face, but I'm 
not in the slightest bit surprised it didn't win. The Williams fans 
in the Academy votes were also probably split by his being nominated 
twice.

P.S. Did anyone else notice how much Daniel Radcliffe has changed in 
the last few months when he did his "my favourite film" bit?

Unless someone else does it, I might make some vidcaps (I'm watching 
the show live but recording it for someone else)...






From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Mar 30 04:55:01 2002
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 04:55:01 -0000
Subject: Yes, Jews Do Exist
In-Reply-To: <005201c1d73e$d4d5a540$5a7c63d1@texas.net>
Message-ID: <a83gf5+qpca@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "Amanda" <editor at t...> wrote:
> Jenny said
> > "Yes, we do exist... and we don't have horns either".
> 
> But my best friend married a nice Jewish boy from New York, and she
> says he does.....maybe that's the New York influence...?

Be careful of the difference between being horny versus having horns 
(aka being horned), in English anyway. (I understand that there is no 
difference in French, both are the same word, 'cornu'.) *Having* 
horns is being a cuckold.




From miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au  Sat Mar 30 12:06:34 2002
From: miss_megan at dingoblue.net.au (storm)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:06:34 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] MST3k references and (of course) birds
References: <1017409089.16523.32557.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <008d01c1d7e3$f134c540$45d98ec6@storm>

> Aegeus informations:
>
> <<
> MST3k is Mystery Science Theatre 3000. The basic plot
> is that these people are trapped in a spaceship and
> forced to watch bad sci-fi movies, of which they
> comment on incessantly. It's really quite funny.
> Another fun thing to do is MST very bad fics from
> FanFiction.net (though they don't actually do that on
> the show).
> >>
>then Anna indicated:
> Yep, Aegeus and Wanda have done a bang-up job describing
> the indescribable glory of MST3k. I just wanted to add
> a couple of notes about the terminology and the fanfic
> version:
>
> MST3k - the show
> MSTies - the fans
> MiSTing - the act of joking your way through bad art
>
> It really amuses me that MST3k fanfiction should take
> the form of MiSTing, rather than actual stories. It's
> just so much in the spirit of the show. ^^
>
Thank you Anna, Aegeus and Wanda. I did write a e.m last week but the Death!
Eaters appear to have eaten it. Now I am posting again it will no doubt appear
but I won't feel like an idiot, not at all!

On to birds ... FINALLY I have a bird in my aviary ... neither the Magpie (died
before came to me) nor the Raven (stayed with the vet) were the inaugural
tenant. A very large (470 grams) male Kookaburra has done me this honour. He
can't stand. The vet doesn't know why. He loves his mice and doesn't
particularly like me (such a shame because I think he is wonderful <sigh> isn't
it always the way!) It's been terribly cold here today and tonight so the aviary
is wrapped in a tarp to cut the wind. This evening I set up a lamp to try and
keep him warm. Note to self, buy radiator to heat aviary.

Now all you Northern Hemisphere types will laugh when I tell you what 'terribly
cold' means ... about 60 deg F. But a bird has a body temperature of a bit more
than 104 F and it's been more than 75 F until yesterday.

storm and a very large Kookaburra




From aiz24 at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 30 13:29:23 2002
From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (lupinesque)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:29:23 -0000
Subject: Ed to Kevin, short and long
In-Reply-To: <a82b1u+r8jk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a84ejj+ue1t@eGroups.com>

Devin, the undisputed champ of Six Degrees, wrote:

>  Sure, there are a number of ways to 
> shorten that list, but that takes the fun away.  Has anyone here 
seen 
> The Player?  Pretty damn good movie in its own right, but it takes 
> all the fun out of Six Degrees because about 90 celebrities or so 
are 
> in it.  No fair using that movie.  You can get from anyone to anyone 
> using that movie (perhaps using characters with more than ten lines 
> of dialogue in that movie is okay, but not the cameos).

*Good* movie.  Even without the cameos it is a huge boon to players of 
this game.  I mean, Whoopi Goldberg and Lyle Lovett?

I've never played Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon in my life, but my dh and 
I have a game that's very similar:  one of us names two things, 
people, whatever, and the other tries to figure out how he/she got 
from one to the other.  It emerged spontaneously, IIRC, from one of 
those conversations where there's a long silence and then one person 
suddenly says "and that reminds me . . . " and the other says "HUH?" 
and the first person laughs and tries to remember the train of thought 
that occurred during the silence.

Amy
who wants to go wake up her sleeping spouse to play this RIGHT NOW




From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Sat Mar 30 15:37:45 2002
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:37:45 -0000
Subject: All these connections
In-Reply-To: <a84ejj+ue1t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a84m49+63nv@eGroups.com>

Does the person one is connected to have to be alive, are at least 
have been alive at some point after I came to life?  

If not, then I claim four steps to Queen Victoria, Emperors Franz 
Josef II and Karl II of Austria-Hungary, quite possibly Arch-Duke 
Franz-Ferdinand of same (the gentleman who was shot in Sarajevo), 
certainly to Czar Nicholas II of Russia, and Emperor Wilhelm II of 
Germany - I probably can claim Peter I of Serbia on that list too 
(he's the poor chap who at age sixty had to ride from the church to 
the Royal palace in Belgrade wearing a 15lbs crown on his head - it 
was wrought out of gunmetal, as there was no gold or silver with 
which to make a crown).  I can also claim three steps to several 
others, including Emperor Hirohito of Japan, Sir Winston Spencer 
Churchill, HM Queen Elizabeth II, Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother, 
HRH Prince Charles the Prince of Wales, King George VI, Edward Duke 
of Windsor, while I am not certain if I have three or four steps to 
Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Edward VII, and George V.  

Now for the explanation:  I had an uncle - his name was Inge.  He 
died while I was still quite little, but I remember him 
nevertheless.  He once gave me (and I still have it somewhere) one of 
those small money-purses that we in Norway call portemon? (we 
probably imported that word from France) - they are quite small and 
you have to fold your notes/bills quite tight to get them in it, and 
to get the right one out again....  That is hard enough in Norway, 
where the notes have different colours, but I can't imagine how 
difficult it would be in the USA - but I am digressing.  

My uncle Inge partook in some of the fighting in Northern Norway in 
WW2.  He also worked long years for the then local squire, the late 
Hartvig Sverdrup, who himself also served in WW2, and earned his rank 
as a Commander in the Royal Norwegian Navy.  Now for his long service 
with the Sverdrup-business my uncle was awarded The King's 
Distinguished Service Medal (silver valour).  Like all recipients of 
this medal, eh was invited to The Palace in Oslo (Norway only has one 
palace, so the Royal Palace in Oslo is simply termed The Palace) for 
an audience with King Olav V, with 15 minutes or more conversation 
about his life and experiences.  

King Olav, born 1903, was the son of King Haakon VII (born Prince 
Carl of Denmark) and Queen Maud, daughter of Edward VII, son of Queen 
Victoria and Prince Albert.  Olav's wife, Princess M?rtha (of the 
Swedish Bernadotte-family - she died of cancer before Olav became 
king) stayed with their children Astrid, Ragnhild, and Harald, in the 
USA during WW2, and became close friends with the Roosevelts.  
Haakon, Maud, M?rtha and Olav between them all have had many 
connections with all the above, particularly the European royalty - 
after all the European Royalty is one big family, in a literal sense.

So there you have it - I do feel quite royally connected.

Best regards
Christian Stub?




From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Sat Mar 30 18:13:18 2002
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 18:13:18 -0000
Subject: The Queen Mother is dead today
Message-ID: <a84v7u+dqhu@eGroups.com>

Just before 7 CET the report appeared that HM Queen Elizabeth the 
Queen Mother is dead, 101 years old.  Requiescat in pacem.




From michelleapostolides at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Mar 30 18:41:22 2002
From: michelleapostolides at yahoo.co.uk (Michelle Apostolides)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 18:41:22 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The Queen Mother is dead today
References: <a84v7u+dqhu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000901c1d81a$7e43b3c0$e88a01d4@book>



  Just before 7 CET the report appeared that HM Queen Elizabeth the 
  Queen Mother is dead, 101 years old.  Requiescat in pacem.


  I'd like to echo that. We were lucky to have someone like her.  Let's be thankful for that. 

  Michelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From alyeskakc at netzero.net  Sat Mar 30 19:18:57 2002
From: alyeskakc at netzero.net (alyeskakc)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 19:18:57 -0000
Subject: The Queen Mother is dead today
In-Reply-To: <000901c1d81a$7e43b3c0$e88a01d4@book>
Message-ID: <a85331+iv5u@eGroups.com>

How sad, I always loved the Queen Mum. She gave the royals a bit of 
badly needed personality. She will be missed. 

~Kristin




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 30 19:49:18 2002
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:49:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: The Queen Mother is dead today
In-Reply-To: <a85331+iv5u@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020330194918.23492.qmail@web13708.mail.yahoo.com>


 
  alyeskakc <alyeskakc at netzero.net> wrote: 
How sad, I always loved the Queen Mum. 

That is very sad news. All of us will miss her. She was quite a character in her own right. Yes, she kept the family together even when they were divorced or otherwise. More sad news to give my muggles.

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Very Sad Band of Muggles once again.



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send greetings for Easter,  Passover

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From landers at email.unc.edu  Sun Mar 31 01:07:14 2002
From: landers at email.unc.edu (Betty Landers)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:07:14 -0500
Subject: question
Message-ID: <006301c1d850$662a0e20$3f33323f@oemcomputer>

I would like to find an email address to replace yahoo that meets the
following requirements.
1. Free.
2.  Can be configured for access through email clients.
3. Doesn't require signing up for an ISP; I've already got one.
Any ideas?




From chris at dickson.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 31 01:08:02 2002
From: chris at dickson.demon.co.uk (lurkwarbler)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:08:02 -0000
Subject: Another HP merchandising tie-in waiting to happen
Message-ID: <a85nhi+qi87@eGroups.com>

We know from Prisoner of Azkaban Chapter 5 (OK, I know from a quick 
search through Steve's Lexicon) that Drooble's Best Blowing 
Gum "fills the room with bluebell-colored bubbles that refuse to pop 
for days".

Chemists in Taiwan have recently developed bubbles that dry quickly 
and have a durable skin which can last for up to five days, according 
to a recent report in the Toronto Star. The URL for the article is 
very long, so I have created http://qwer.org/drooble.html which will 
redirect to the article for at least a week or two.

OK, this doesn't solve the "gum" part of the operation as these are 
rather closer to soap bubbles than gum bubbles. Furthermore, they may 
well not float in the air particularly long. However, it's got to be 
close enough for the merchandisers' purposes. Another aspect of 
Potterverse magic brought to the Muggle universe by technology!

You read it here first. (OK, I read it on Metafilter first.) It could 
well end up being one of the year's top toys!

Happy Daylight Savings! (...for the Northern hemisphere)
Chris

-- 
Chris M. Dickson, mostly lurking




From bray.262 at osu.edu  Sun Mar 31 02:10:25 2002
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (duranduran88)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 02:10:25 -0000
Subject: Well...that dampens my joy a bit
Message-ID: <a85r6h+717d@eGroups.com>

I was going to post my joy of the Hoosiers winning tonight and going 
to the Championship but now I've read the posts about the Queen 
Mother dying.  How very sad.  I always enjoyed watching her in news 
reports and such.  She always had the best hats, the sweetest smile 
and a presence that always looked like she was having a good time.  
She will be missed.

Well....go Hoosiers.  Indiana hasn't lost the five times they've made 
it to the Championship.  Let's hope they can do it one more time.  
It's nice to have a team to root for...especially when your own 
school sucks so badly at sports!  :-(

Hmmmm....wonder what Bobby Knight thinks of Indiana's season this 
year?  Ha ha.

Happy Easter, everyone (who celebrate it).  My mother has already 
informed me I'll be getting up at 5:30 tomorrow morning to go to 
sunrise service.  Now....*why* was it I came home for the weekend?  
Oh yeah, that's right...my basket of chocolate bunnies and Peeps.
 :-)  Actually, this year, my Harry Potter gym bag with chocolate 
bunnies and Peeps.  Thanks, Easter Bunny!  Bawk! Bawk!


Rachel Bray
*who is missing her cat this weekend.  She was put down last Monday.  
She was 18 years old and her body was giving out but she was full of 
love and spirit until the end*




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Mar 31 02:19:43 2002
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 02:19:43 -0000
Subject: Well...that dampens my joy a bit
In-Reply-To: <a85r6h+717d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a85rnv+qjrf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "duranduran88" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
 
> Oh yeah, that's right...my basket of chocolate bunnies and Peeps.

Do you EAT Peeps?!?! Or explode them in microwaves like everyone 
else?

> Rachel Bray is missing her cat this weekend. She was put down last
> Monday. She was 18 years old and her body was giving out but she 
> was full of love and spirit until the end*

<HUGS> Rachel in sympathy. 

There is a t-shirt that shows a mob of cats waiting around the 
Pearly Gates with the caption "Cats are Heaven's welcoming committee".

No one can ever REPLACE a beloved cat (like my Nan, or my Obi, or my 
'you can take the cat out of the alley but you can't take the alley 
out of the cat' Fancy, or my very annoying Sasha) but nonetheless the 
world is full of homeless cats who need to be adopted, and you now 
have a space in your home for one of them. 




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 31 06:58:08 2002
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (jenP_97)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 06:58:08 -0000
Subject: Degrees of Kevin Bacon, back from my vacation with my MIL...
Message-ID: <a86c21+s7ck@eGroups.com>

Hi, all.  Finally caught up with all the messages I missed in my week 
of absence, and wanted to weigh in on the KB thread since my brother-
in-law works in the entertainment industry.... he works on "Blind 
Date", except works is a relative term, as it's in hiatus right now 
and he's not getting paid. ;)

Okay, so...  I'm going to cheat here and use "The Oracle of Bacon" at 
UVA (link at bottom) because though I know the rules, I'm not the 
biggest movie watcher, so I can't find the obscure links. :)

Paul (b-i-l)'s brother John (2?) was a Digital Effects Supervisor 
for Hollow Man, which starred Kevin Bacon (3).  Of course, I've met 
John and our children play together when we come to town, so maybe 
that makes John a (1) and KB a (2)?

More:

Paul (1) is friends with Stan Evans (2), who wrote and produced "Talk 
Soup" during the Greg Kinnear (3) years, who was in _Nurse Betty_ 
with someone called Pruitt Taylor Vince (4), who was in _24 Hours_ 
with Kevin Bacon (5).  For some reason, that seems more legitimate...

My freshman (college) roommate was a girl named Marisol (1), who went 
to high school with Staci Keanan (2), who was in _Nowhere_ with Scott 
Caan (3), who was in _Novocaine_ with KB (4).

What a fun game. :)

Anyway, onto my Florida visit with my MIL:

Well, my MIL likes to talk.  A lot.  And since she's been out of 
work, she doesn't have as many people to talk to... so she talked to 
us.  A LOT.  Sometimes it was about things that I agreed with - like 
some family issues.  Sometimes it wasn't, like her views on racial 
profiling at the airports, and how it *wasn't* offensive, and how 
innocent people who looked Arabic (and even were Arabic) *shouldn't* 
be angry or offended or feel like their rights had been trampled on 
because of their appearance/religion.  But I let my husband argue 
with her... cuz I was already feeling guilty for arguing with her.

Why?

POTTY TRAINING.

Ugh.  Isn't it a horrible thing?  Ginger turned 3 on the 10th (of 
March, of course), and is, as you may know, NOT potty trained yet.  
Not because she isn't capable, but because she refuses to do it.  
Well... we've decided to just drop it as a subject of conversation 
because every time we bring it up with her, she gets defensive, and 
it feels like we put off the "big day" by weeks at a time.  Well, we 
told my MIL this, but of course, she raised 3 kids (on her own, 
mostly, which I totally give her credit for!), so she knows better.  
So we're at a restaurant, and something comes up, and she tells my 
daughter that the only way she can go to preschool is to use the 
potty.  And Ginger says no, she's going to preschool after the baby 
comes (which is true, and we've told her this).  My MIL shakes her 
head and tells her that they don't allow you to go to preschool 
unless you can use the toilet.  Ginger got a little upset, and argued 
with her some more, and my MIL got this stern look on her face and 
told her emphatically that they won't allow kids with diapers into 
preschool.  So of course, Ginger started to cry, and I said, "Ginger, 
you can pee in your diapers as long as you want, Grandma doesn't know 
anything."  In text, this looks awful, but I said it sarcastically 
with a smile on my face.  Of course, that STILL doesn't mean it 
wasn't a horrible thing to say, and as I said before, I was very 
embarrassed and guilty for the rest of the visit.

The next day, she hands me a paper with an article entitled "Kids DO 
come with an instructional manual after all!" with quotes from some 
book, and she tells me, "I thought the potty training tips were very 
good - but I don't want to force anything down your throat!!!"

ARGH!!!!!!!!!!

So I'm starting to wonder what would happen if she DID move out to 
California with us and had more daily contact with us and the way we 
raise our kid(s).  Maybe I *would* start hating her after a while...

Well, sorry this was so long - thanks for wading through it.  Potty 
training support would be welcome. :)

Jen (the failure at motherhood... hehehe)

Oh yeah!  The link to the Oracle of Bacon!

http://www.cs.virginia.edu/oracle/




From macloudt at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 31 10:22:38 2002
From: macloudt at hotmail.com (Mary Jennings)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:22:38 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Well...that dampens my joy a bit
Message-ID: <F256c7ckHMGfVk6aG1I0000fa75@hotmail.com>

Rachel signed off:

>Rachel Bray
>*who is missing her cat this weekend.  She was put down last Monday.
>She was 18 years old and her body was giving out but she was full of
>love and spirit until the end*

Sorry to hear about your furbaby, Rachel :(  It's always distressing to lose 
a pet under any circumstances.  I'm sure she was spoiled rotten, wasn't she?

"duranduran88"?  Is that a confession of teenage music tastes?  If it is, 
let me be the next to join the DuranDuran Anonymous group.  Personally I 
blame it on the poodle perm fumes ;)

Mary Ann
(who, yes, sported the poodle perm, rah-rah skirts, and 3-inch-thick makeup 
in the 80's)




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com




From neilward at dircon.co.uk  Sun Mar 31 12:45:52 2002
From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 13:45:52 +0100
Subject: ADMIN: Virus alert
Message-ID: <00bf01c1d8b1$fe2f2c80$da3570c2@c5s910j>

Dear HPfGU members,

It seems that one of our members has been infected with the PE_Magistr.B
virus (and associated Trojan), and that this has passed itself on to an
number of addresses from the member's address file.

There may be a message, which refers to a story about "Gannon," and a
typical header is: "It was hard not to think."   Various attachments have
been reported, which should not be opened.

Most good virus protection software should deal with the virus, but if you
have become infected, you should make sure you clean up your system to
protect your files and avoid further spread.

Details and instructions for removal here:

http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.magistr.39921 at mm
.html

If you have any questions, please contact us at:
hpforgrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com

Neil
for the HPfGU Moderator Team





From meboriqua at aol.com  Sun Mar 31 13:01:48 2002
From: meboriqua at aol.com (jenny_ravenclaw)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 13:01:48 -0000
Subject: I could use some advice and KB degrees
Message-ID: <a871bs+su8q@eGroups.com>

Hey all -

Raul and I have a problem.  There is a "social club" across the street 
from our building and this club is not legal.  On the weekends (which 
is when it is open), there is so much noise from the club, we have had 
many sleepless nights.  We hear people yelling outside, have seen a 
few fights, and have heard a variety of music louder than volume 11, 
from about 11 at night to 7 or so in the morning.  We have called the 
police so many times, the officer who answers the phone now knows my 
number and voice.  He has told me that we are not even the only ones 
who call, yet most of the time they do not show up.  Last night, 
however, we noticed six police officers outside of the club, laughing 
and having a smoke.  The owner of the club came out, they went in, 
and they all walked out together about two minutes later.  

Raul is convinced that the local police are being paid off by the 
owner of the club.  I was thinking of setting up a video camera to 
record what goes on there and then to possibly call the local news 
about the situation.  However, I do not want my name, face or voice 
anywhere on any news program.  Does anyone have any good ideas to help 
Raul and me get this club shut down for good?

As for Kevin Bacon, Raul used to frequent a very nice bar whose 
bartender was either the niece or the cousin of Kevin Bacon.  He said 
she looked just like KB, too.

Have a great Easter, to those who celebrate it!

--jenny from ravenclaw, reeling from lack of sleep and a bit in shock 
from possibly actually having witnessed police corruption in action 
***************************************************




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 31 13:51:27 2002
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 05:51:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Have a Wonderful Day
Message-ID: <20020331135127.99166.qmail@web13707.mail.yahoo.com>

<TABLE width=580 align=center border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD><A target=_self
href="http://www.flower-fairies-pictures.co.uk/"><IMG
height=40 alt="Flower Fairies Pictures Antique Print
of Flower fairy, vintage flower fairy print"
src="http://www.flower-fairies-pictures.co.uk/ff/images/flowerfairieslogo.jpg"
width=580 border=0
name=fairyimage></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellPadding=0 width=580 align=center border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD>
<FORM name=form1
action=/ff/shop/details.asp?ProductID=70 method=post>
<TABLE width="100%" border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD width="50%">
<H2>The Wild RoseFlower Fairy</H2> Original
1930s Antique Print<BR>
<P><FONT size=-1>Hope every one has a wonderful day
today!</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=2>Schnoogles,</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=2>Wanda rhe Witch of Revere,
Massachusetts and Her Very Merry Band of Muggles
100%</FONT></P></TD>
<TD width="50%" rowSpan=3>
<DIV align=center><IMG alt="antique print of the Wild
Rose flower fairy" src="http://www.flower-fairies-pictures.co.uk/images/flowerfairies/wildrose-300.jpg"></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></FORM></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/



From wynnde1 at aol.com  Sun Mar 31 12:52:23 2002
From: wynnde1 at aol.com (wynnde1 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:52:23 EST
Subject: Potty Training
Message-ID: <ea.2533a808.29d86087@aol.com>

Jen writes:


> POTTY TRAINING.
> 
> Ugh.  Isn't it a horrible thing?  Ginger turned 3 on the 10th (of 
> March, of course), and is, as you may know, NOT potty trained yet.  
> Not because she isn't capable, but because she refuses to do it.  
> Well... we've decided to just drop it as a subject of conversation 
> because every time we bring it up with her, she gets defensive, and 
> it feels like we put off the "big day" by weeks at a time.

I can totally empathise with you on this one! My son, Connor, is nearly three 
and a half, and he flat-out REFUSES to use the toilet. We had him in pants 
(underwear) yesterday instead of a diaper, and when my husband tried to get 
him to sit on the potty before we went for a walk, Connor threw a major 
screaming fit. Sounded as though we were pulling out his toenails or 
something. So he is definitely not ready, and I don't want to push him too 
hard for exactly the reason you said - don't want to put him off it so that 
it takes even longer for him to come around to using the toilet!

Fortunately, since we live half-way across the world from any family members, 
I don't have the MIL trouble. (Thank HEAVENS!). A couple of weeks ago, I went 
back to California for a funeral. Had thought of having my husband and son 
come with me, but chose to go by myself instead. And while it was certainly 
not the ONLY consideration (the big one was the 11-hour plane flight from 
London to LA), it certainly occurred to me that not having to make excuses 
for my son still being in diapers was a BIG advantage of leaving him at home! 
<G>

Glad to know I'm not the only awful mum around! ;-)

Wynnde

Wynnde A. St. John
Gullane, East Lothian, Scotland
<A HREF="wynnde1 at aol.com">wynnde1 at aol.com</A>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





From naama_gat at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 31 15:21:43 2002
From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naamagatus)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:21:43 -0000
Subject: Yes, Jews Do Exist
In-Reply-To: <005201c1d73e$d4d5a540$5a7c63d1@texas.net>
Message-ID: <a879i7+l1bg@eGroups.com>


Yeah, but not for long...

Naama
wondering whether she dares go to the supermarket today





From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 31 15:31:50 2002
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:31:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Two birthdays today!
In-Reply-To: <F256c7ckHMGfVk6aG1I0000fa75@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020331153150.72341.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>

Yes, another day with two people celebrating
birthdays. Today's celebrants are Eledhwen and Lea.

Birthday owls for Eledhwen should be addressed to
slinkie at nids.se and those for Lea should be sent to
lea.macleod at gmx.net. Owls to this list are always
welcome.

Lea and Eledhwen, I hope you days are filled with
magic, chocolate frogs and an abundance of butterbeer.

Happy Birthday!

Sheryll

______________________________________________________________________ 
Find, Connect, Date! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 31 15:39:09 2002
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:39:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Two birthdays today!
In-Reply-To: <20020331153150.72341.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020331153909.76650.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Sheryll Townsend <s_ings at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Yes, another day with two people celebrating
> birthdays. Today's celebrants are Eledhwen and Lea.
> 
> Birthday owls for Eledhwen should be addressed to
> slinkie at nids.se and those for Lea should be sent to
> lea.macleod at gmx.net. Owls to this list are always
> welcome.
> 
> Lea and Eledhwen, I hope you days are filled with
> magic, chocolate frogs and an abundance of
> butterbeer.
> 
> Happy Birthday!
> 
> Sheryll
> 
Yes, that should have said "...hope *your* days...".
Yes, I did spell check it. No, I have not had enough
coffee yet this morning, despite the fact that it's
already 10:30. I'm hoping that marks will not be taken
from my house (Gryffindor) for the above faux pas, but
will deal with it gracefully if it turns out to be
otherwise.

I hope the birthdays in questions turn out much better
than my spelling has proved to be! 

Happy Birthday, once again.

Sheryll, off in search of coffee and hoping it will help

______________________________________________________________________ 
Find, Connect, Date! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 31 16:28:50 2002
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda Mallett)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:28:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Potty Training
In-Reply-To: <ea.2533a808.29d86087@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020331162850.31620.qmail@web13702.mail.yahoo.com>


 
  wynnde1 at aol.com wrote: 
Jen writes:


> POTTY TRAINING.
> 
> Ugh.  Isn't it a horrible thing?  

Hi, Jen, usually girls train faster than boys. All three of mine were potty trained by the time they were 4 yrs. old. The best thing to do is leave her be. She will do it. The more you try and we all did at some point, they refuse. I wish they had those pullups when my Dan was younger! The other two did it all on their own. Dan was trying to be sneaky, he would wait until bath time and poop in the tub! Well, I told him next time he will clean out his poop from the tub! He must have thought mom was kidding, guess what? I wasn't and he had to clean it up! The next night, he hopped out of the tub and squated like a frog on the toilet seat and pooped! For almost a year, he would strip off his clothes and squated! If only to have had a video camera back then!LOL! Just take it one day at a time and she will be a big girl before you know it. Don't stress yourself out and her too. She will do just fine.

Schnoogles,

Wanda the Witch of Revere, Massachusetts and Her Very Merry Band of Muggles 100%  



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send greetings for Easter,  Passover

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 31 16:32:04 2002
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:32:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: My KB Degrees
In-Reply-To: <a871bs+su8q@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20020331163204.79251.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>

Okay, I've hummed and hawed over this one and finally
got it done, with thanks to Jen for the link to the
"Oracle of Bacon".

My brother-in-law (1) went to high school with a girl
(2)who did make-up on the movie Unforgiven, which
starred Clint Eastwood (3) who was in A Perfect World
with Laura Dern (4) who was in Novocaine with Kevin
Bacon (5). That's as close as I can possible get, as I
have no idea what other films this friend of my
brother-in-law has worked on.

Sheryll

=====
"We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times."
 blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26

______________________________________________________________________ 
Find, Connect, Date! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 31 18:45:51 2002
From: virtualworldofhp at yahoo.com (virtualworldofhp)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:45:51 -0000
Subject: Well...that dampens my joy a bit
In-Reply-To: <a85r6h+717d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a87lgv+glc0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "duranduran88" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> Well....go Hoosiers.  Indiana hasn't lost the five times they've made 
> it to the Championship.  Let's hope they can do it one more time.  
> It's nice to have a team to root for...especially when your own 
> school sucks so badly at sports!  :-(
> 
> Hmmmm....wonder what Bobby Knight thinks of Indiana's season this 
> year?  Ha ha.


Yes!  Go Hoosiers!  In your face to Knight who LOST in the first round
with the 'Raiders.

And for all those that thought they weren't supposed to win against
Duke--well, obviously the forces at work disagreed.  Oklahoma just
wasn't on their game Saturday night.  Too bad both Big 12 teams lost.

Sorry, I get a little maniacal in March. :-D

-Megan




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Mar 31 19:25:27 2002
From: catlady at wicca.net (catlady_de_los_angeles)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:25:27 -0000
Subject: Yes, Jews Do Exist
In-Reply-To: <a879i7+l1bg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a87nr7+5319@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "naamagatus" <naama_gat at h...> wrote:
> Yeah, but not for long...
> Naama
> wondering whether she dares go to the supermarket today

I'm reading the posts; I read your post and clicked my bookmarked 
news site to see what latest horror you're referring to. The first 
three minutes of the five-minute BBC Radio Hourly news update was 
entirely about Israel, not until then did they put 45 seconds on the 
funeral (?) of the Queen Mother -- something about her casket 
being covered with her personal standard.

I wish there was something comforting that I could say to you. What 
comes to my mind is the not particularly comforting fact that no one 
has succeeded in wiping out all Jews yet. The Diaspora maintains 
the bloodlines and memories. 




From pbarhug at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 31 19:46:34 2002
From: pbarhug at earthlink.net (Pam Hugonnet)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:46:34 -0500
Subject: The potty saga...
References: <a86c21+s7ck@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3CA7679A.F1D6BA5D@earthlink.net>

jenP_97 wrote:

> POTTY TRAINING.
>
> Ugh.  Isn't it a horrible thing?  Ginger turned 3 on the 10th (of
> March, of course), and is, as you may know, NOT potty trained yet.
> Not because she isn't capable, but because she refuses to do it.
> Well... we've decided to just drop it as a subject of conversation
> because every time we bring it up with her, she gets defensive, and
> it feels like we put off the "big day" by weeks at a time.

    Potty training is, unfortunately, the first of many power struggles
that we go through with our kids.  But you're doing the right thing by
de-emphasizing it's importance.  Remember, nobody has graduated from
college wearing diapers, carrying a lovey blanket or with a pacifier in
their mouth (although I thought my second daughter was going to come
close on the last one).


>  So of course, Ginger started to cry, and I said, "Ginger,
> you can pee in your diapers as long as you want, Grandma doesn't know
> anything."  In text, this looks awful, but I said it sarcastically
> with a smile on my face.

LOL!  You don't know how many times I've longed to say something similar
to my MIL and my own mom.  Perhaps your language was less than
diplomatic, but the message was clear.  If it comes up again with Ginger
tell her that a long time ago it was true that some preschools didn't
let non-potty trained kids come to school, but that's not the case now
and that Grandma was just speaking about what it was like way back
when.  Case closed, Grandma comment neutralized.


> ARGH!!!!!!!!!!
>
> So I'm starting to wonder what would happen if she DID move out to
> California with us and had more daily contact with us and the way we
> raise our kid(s).  Maybe I *would* start hating her after a while...
>

    That's her job; MIL's are made to be slightly irritating on child
rearing issues.  You'll be surprised at how much less these comments
will bother you when you're going through potty training with kid #2
(boy or girl, BTW, do you know yet?) Over time you develop these
callouses so that you can say, "Yeah, is that right?"  to whatever piece
of bizarre advice comes flying your way.  It's just that as a
going-thru-it-for-the-first-time-Mom it's easy to feel that you are
making mistakes left and right.  You aren't.  And if you are, it's not
gonna kill anybody.


Here's my two bits on the potty-training scene:

Wanda is right; girls usually train faster and earlier than boys.  (Does
that help any, Wynnde?)  But everybody has his/her own schedule.  As the
weather is probably warming up where you are, try this little trick.
Buy a potty or two or three.  Put one in the bathroom.  One in the
living room (or wherever you spend most of your time) and one in the
backyard.  Put her in dresses and skip the diaper.  Put out a stack of
pull-ups and tell her there are some potties around for her to use if
she would like.  There are also pull-ups around.  If she feels like she
needs to go, she should choose one.  And leave it at that.  Yes. you
will mop up quite a bit for a day or two, but she'll get with the
program very quickly because it will be her choice to do so.  If she
doesn't get better about it in a week or so, switch to the pull-ups and
leave it be.  Once she goes to preschool and sees everybody lining up
for bathroom time or experiences a diaper change or two in front of her
friends, she'll train in no time.   Peer pressure begins really early ;)

> Jen (the failure at motherhood... hehehe)
>

Join the club!  There are a lot of us here!

drpam
who has failed motherhood three times so far and is preparing to fail
for a fourth.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From BJMBriggs at zianet.com  Sun Mar 31 19:59:26 2002
From: BJMBriggs at zianet.com (stockw_98)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:59:26 -0000
Subject: Well...that dampens my joy a bit
In-Reply-To: <a87lgo+52sl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a87pqu+blrf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "virtualworldofhp" 
<virtualworldofhp at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at y..., "duranduran88" <bray.262 at o...> wrote:
> > Well....go Hoosiers.  Indiana hasn't lost the five times they've 
made 
> > it to the Championship.  Let's hope they can do it one more time. 
 
> > It's nice to have a team to root for...especially when your own 
> > school sucks so badly at sports!  :-(
> > 
> > Hmmmm....wonder what Bobby Knight thinks of Indiana's season this 
> > year?  Ha ha.
> 
> 
> Yes!  Go Hoosiers!  In your face to Knight who LOST in the first 
round
> with the 'Raiders.
> 
> And for all those that thought they weren't supposed to win against
> Duke--well, obviously the forces at work disagreed.  Oklahoma just
> wasn't on their game Saturday night.  Too bad both Big 12 teams 
lost.
> 
> Sorry, I get a little manical in March. :-D
> 
> -Megan                                                              

I agree.  I had heard that Knight has not even been in contact with 
Indiana during this great run.  I just hope that Mike Davis and 
company can beat Maryland (who I still think has too many "chinks" in 
their armor to win a National Championship)  Go Indiana!  This from a 
Ohio State fan who likes Ohio State but admires great basketball!
Pam Briggs      




From Ali at zymurgy.org  Sun Mar 31 21:32:19 2002
From: Ali at zymurgy.org (alhewison)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:32:19 -0000
Subject: Richard Harris presents King Arthur
Message-ID: <a87v93+nn3h@eGroups.com>

The BBC showed today a really interesting programme about the 
historic truth behind Arthur. It seemed strange that the HP 
similarities to the Arthurian legend had recently been discussed, and 
then out pops this programme, presented by Richard Harris. The 
programme was really just making the case for the existence of a real 
King Arthur, and wouldn't advance any Potter theories though! If 
anyone is interested there is a little bit about it on the BBC 
website: www.BBC.co.uk/Arthur.

I missed the beginning of the programme as they had changed the time. 
I think all our programme timings have now been changed to fit in 
obitaries of the Queen Mother....

Ali