[HPFGU-OTChatter] Gifted children

[Shaun Hately]

On 28 May 2002 at 20:40, Laura Huntley wrote:

> 
> Shaun:
> >Heh - never be afraid to argue with someone if you think you're right. I doubt you 
> >need that piece of advice but it important.
> 
> Nah, I've never had a problem with not being able to express my opinions.  ^_~  
> Actually, I've been trying to curb my expression a little bit of late, because I've 
> been told that my being so argumentative tends to upset other people, and I 
> certainly don't want to do that.

I guess it depends on the person - some people do get upset over being argued 
with. It doesn't worry me.
 
> >When they are radically accelerated, between 60 and 80% find at least one 'peer' in 
> >a class. The odds are much higher in their favour. Now the peer relationship 
> >sometimes (a little less than half the time) is somewhat different from a typical one. 
> >It can be true that the child can notice that "his friends don't quite treat/see him the 
> >same way they do each other."
> >But faced with a 60% chance of any type of peer relationship and friendship, versus 
> >a 5% chance of the same (because the fact is the "friends don't quite treat/see him 
> >the same way they do each other" is a problem that could occur in the aged based 
> >class as well), it's pretty clear what the better choice is. Not the perfect choice - but 
> >we rarely have perfect choices. We have to go with what is best.
> 
> Alright.  I understand/agree with you here.  Given those choices, you've argued 
> very convincingly for radical acceleration.  But...I still think that the *best* option is 
> to try to put these kids with other gifted kids of the same age group.  Where I am, 
> schools like mine are considered second-best to the things that the people 
> working with gifted kids really *want* to have happen...like special programs or 
> radical acceleration (all the schools I've been don't allow this)...But IMO, whatever 
> it's worth...I think schools like mine deserve to be thought of as a good, if not the 
> best, option for these kids, not just in the context "Well, we can't do ______, but at 
> least there's that magnet school."

I actually agree for the most part - I think the best option is to group these kids 
together, if that can be arranged. The problem is, it can be very hard to do, 
unfortunately.

And your school does sound wonderful (and having spoken to a few of my friends in 
America, it's regarded as extremely good). 
 
> Of course, a huge problem with this is, in dealing with younger children esp., that 
> allot of kids aren't emotionally ready to leave their parents. And it's not like there's 
> going to be enough gifted and/or PG kids in one area to set up a school in each 
> town.

Yes, and this is one of the major problems. A surprisingly large number of places 
could support such schools *if* the will and the resources both exist - but they often 
don't, and there will always be some that cannot.

> >In general yes. With PG kids, not really. A PG child of 8 is actually likely to be more 
> >aware of matters sexual, and more able to deal with them, than other kids at 12. 
> 
> Alright...when I said "aware", what I really meant was "obsessed".  I don't 
> remember a time when everyone around me was *aware* of sex (and even mildly 
> affected by it)...but around 10, 11, or so, it suddenly became a HUGE influential 
> part of everyone's life.

Interesting... I have heard of cases where this has definitely happened - and others 
where it absolutely didn't, and have never worked out why there's a difference.
 
> >I wasn't convinced of this until recently but work on asynchronous development at the 
> >GDC in Denver is pretty clear. There's even some indication that PG kids 
> >(especially girls) may go through puberty 2-3 years earlier than the average, as a 
> >matter of course, though, so far, AFAIK, nobody has worked out any solid reason 
> >why this should be so (though there are theories... there are always theories).
> 
> Now this is really interesting.  I am aware that a small percentage of  girls start 
> puberty as early as 7 or 8 yrs of age, but I've never heard of any correlation 
> between this and any sort of "gifted" status.  Care to expound on any of these 
> theories?  This phenomena is really quite intriguing.  

I'm only aware of the vague details. The theories seem to focus on the 
hypothalamus of the brain - this is the region that triggers the pituitary gland and 
sets off puberty (bear in mind I am not a biologist).

It's considered possible that for some reason the hypothalamus behaves differently 
from normal in a significant number of PG kids - it's also involved in the regulation 
of sleeping patterns, and they can be quite wierd as well. As it's hard to get 
permission to slice and dice gifted kids for experimental purposes (-8 there really 
isn't enough data to do more than basic theorising at the moment. 
 
> Also...as for being an option.  My mom wanted to me to skip a few grades when I 
> was in 1st as well...I remember not being too keen on the idea (the 5th grade 
> teacher was really mean)...but it turned out not to be an issue anyway, because 
> the school district didn't allow acceleration on that scale -- or any scale, for that 
> matter.  This might have been because of -- as you mentioned -- acceleration is 
> often done badly and therefore gets a bad name, or just because they really didn't 
> want to deal with the hassle if it turned out I couldn't do the work or get along with 
> the older students.

There are all sorts of reasons schools can block acceleration - a few are real, most 
are based on misunderstandings (for example, the primary piece of literature used 
in America to block acceleration is David Elkind's "The Hurried Child". Elkind 
actually supports acceleration for gifted kids - The Hurried Child was basically 
written to refer to 95% of kids - specifically ignoring the kids at each end of the 
ability range. That isn't very clear in the text however. That doesn't mean he thinks 
all gifted kids should be accelerated - but the book wasn't intended to suggest they 
shouldn't. And, human nature being what it is, you don't generally hear about the 9 
cases where it worked - but the 10th where it didn't.

 > So, sometimes, I guess there are zero options for gifted kids, let alone PG kids..
> 
> Which, for what I've gathered, is exactly what you're working against.  Thanks, by 
> the way.  I tend to be a bit -- vehement -- about my beliefs, but I never mean to be 
> disrespectful towards the beliefs of others, nor does the fact that I disagree 
> necessarily mean that I don't appreciate other people's views.

That's cool (-8

Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in
common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter
the facts to fit the views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen
to be one of the facts that need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who:
The Face of Evil | Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia