Where is 21 Grimmauld Place?

[bluesqueak]

> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboy_mn at y...> 
wrote:
> > Is there anyone here who is from London or is familiar with 
> > London, who might want to speculate on possible REAL London 
> > neighborhoods whatcould be potential locations for #12 Grimmauld 
> > Place?
> > Neighborhood that at one time were nice well kept middle class
> > neighborhood, that have not endured the test of time very well, 
> > and are now run down. 
> > 
> > It would have to be on the East side, which makes sense because 
> > I'm lead to believe that the East End is a working class low rent
> > district. Am I correct in assuming that the 'East End' is an 
> > very old London neighborhood?

Almost. The 'East End' is a generic term for anything East of the 
City of London. It encompasses several neighbourhoods. 

Because the prevailing winds in London are West to East, any smelly 
trades used to be placed in the East part, so that the smells would 
be blown *away* from the city.

This meant that the aristocracy, who didn't have to work, sited 
their houses in the 'west end' of the city, near the City of 
Westminster and the Court. People who ran businesses were usually 
either in the City of London itself, or in the 'east end'. 

Modern London has now swallowed up the City of Westminster, the City 
of London, the East End, the West End, and the entire County of 
Middlesex [grin].


 Remember they flew east, and told Harry if he 
> 
> > got separated he should continue to fly east, and the re-
> > enforcements would join him.
> > 
> > One odd fact that makes it almost impossible for Grimmauld Place 
> 
> > to be a real neighborhood is how long it took to fly there 
> >  doesn't seem consistent with it being a 20 minute walk to 
King's Cross Station,
> > which unless I'm mistaken is roughly in the Charring Cross Road
> > neighborhood. 

Roughly, but it would take about 20 minutes to walk from Charing 
Cross Road to Kings Cross. Kings Cross Station is on the Euston 
Road, and has a neighbourhood around it (called 'Kings Cross'. I 
think it's the station that's named after the neighbourhood.)

12 Grimmauld Place could also be in the Kings Cross neighbourhood, 
which has definitely seen better times. It's currently one of the 
most notorious red light/drug dealing districts in London, with the 
local residents fighting a bitter battle to try and get the 
authorities to clean the place up. If 12 Grimmauld place *is* in 
King's Cross, I can understand why the kids were only allowed out of 
the house with an adult ;-)

> Flying time seems to imply a far east neighborhood, but
> > a 20 minute walk seems to imply a central London neighborhood.
> > 
> > I know it all fiction, but I'm curious.

The discrepancy could be due to Moody's paranoia. He could have been 
following a very wandering path over London - but if Harry got 
separated, he would have to fly straight for the reserves to find 
him.

Another reason for the discrepancy might be that Harry would see the 
lights of London as he approached from the WEST (Surrey) - but 
there's an awful lot of London. I can tell you how long it takes to 
get from East London to West London on the tube (Metro), because I 
do it regularly; 1 hour and 20 minutes. Just crossing the Central 
Zone (Zone 1 on the tube system) takes at least half an hour. 

Equally, when I'm driving home from Eastern England, I expect to 
see 'city' streets at least half an hour before I get home. Harry 
could easily have been flying for some time over city streets just 
to get into the centre of town.

>> 
> June wrote:
> Hackney suggests itself to me.  Crumbling old houses as I recall 
> (left London in early nineties - so if Hackney has now been 
> yuppified apologies all round).
> 
> It used to be very popular with squatters (people who settle 
> unpaying in empty houses) at one time.  The houses are quite 
> victorian and attractive in their way and could of course be done 
up.
> 
> It is also in the north eastern part of London and about 20 mins 
> from Kings Cross!

Yes, Hackney is a possibility, but so is Spitalfields, just East of 
the City of London. That has a large number of old 
Georgian/Victorian houses (around Spitalfields market), which also 
fell into decay when cheap travel meant the rich no longer had to 
live near their place of work. It's currently full of artists, who 
discovered that large amounts of space for studios could be had 
relatively cheap. It's also full of squatters as there are quite a 
few empty houses left.

Islington is now mostly very yuppiefied, but still has some run down 
large houses left; Clerkenwell also has some run down areas.

But personally, I would go for Kings Cross itself, or the 
neighbouring district of Pentonville, which is North London rather 
than the East End. It's famously run down, is a large enough area 
that a 20 minute walk to the station is feasible, and has a park 
called 'Joseph Grimaldi Park', which may have suggested the pun. :-)

Pip!Squeak