Question about New Testament (with OT)

[Melody]

::WARNING::  

I kind of went into Sunday School mode, but the good kind where they
in fact study The Bible for what it is not what they were told it is.
(all verses from NIV) 

::big grin:: 


Catlady asked:
>> In the news coverage of the Episcopalians voting for an out gay 
>> man to be a bishop, there were soundbites of people who 
>> disapproved saying that this is different than the ordination of 
>> women because homosexuality is explicitly forbidden by the Bible.

 
Then Barb wrote:
> As for references to homosexuality in the Old or New Testaments, 
> there are a collection of passages in various places that are 
> generally called the "clobber" passages, in that they are regularly 
> used to "clobber" gay and lesbian people.  However, there is a lot 
> of scholarly focus on these passages for just this reason, and many 
> theologians and clergy believe that these passages either do not 
> reference homosexuality at all or in ways that are particular to the 
> cultural prejudices of the day, and therefore should not inform our 
> present-day ideas of sexuality.

You know.

I was raised Baptist and told that homosexuality is bad.  I was never
given the scripture to back it up directly but more told, it is in
there somewhere.  Isn't that a lovely thing to be told by your Sunday
School teacher?  :)  Anyway.  The Old and New Testament are tricky
though as Barb and Richelle have pointed out.  There are different
ways of interpreting events based on cultural evidence that we are
just now learning.  Often times, what we assume about a culture turned
out wrong in archeological evidence, and we must now reshape our
ideas.  Few people, and *especially* not churches, enjoy doing that,
but I digress.

Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis Ch. 18-19) is tricky as well.  It is not
positive which is the reason God destroyed the cities as The Bible
says.  All we know is that God found reason to destroy them, and
destroy them completely, based on telling Abraham "The outcry against
Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will
go down and see if what they have done is as bad the outcry that has
reached me."  Next chapter is the two angels visiting Lot's family and
being demanded by the mob to come out so they can "know them".  All we
are to conclude is that the behavior and the actions of the town are
in fact sin and thus the punishment is justified in the eyes of God.

So what was that sin?  The raping?  The inhospitality?  The man on man
sex?  Was it because they let themselves be controlled by their lust?
 It is never told.  

So where is it told, you ask.  Fair question.  Let's see.


Leviticus (third chapter of the Old Testament) has a nice list of
things for a *man* not to do in chapter 18.  In between not
sacrificing your children to Molech (who or whatever that is) and not
having sex with animals comes this verse....

Leviticus 18:22
"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

Frankly, I find that to be very cut and dry, myself.


Unfortunately for us, the Old Testament has some other verses we kind
 of glaze over in Leviticus.  A dear, dear friend of mine pointed me
to this comic that fits what I am talking about here.  Also refers to
the above verse.  :)

http://www.ozyandmillie.net/2000/om20000814.html


Bboy wrote:
>On another note, the Bible never says homosexuality is a sin; it says
>gay sex is a sin, **snip**

Hm.  Much of that is up from interpretation, Steve.  That is what
makes religion such a private and personal faith, and also what causes
the most grief.  I personally feel it is between the believer and God.
 For example, I, myself, think sex should be kept to marriage.  But
just because I believe that does not give me the right to force you to
also believe that in order "to save your soul".  It does not require
your approval either.  It is what I interpret that The Bible is
recommending for my life.  

If you want to split hairs, in my opinion, about gay sex and loving
the same sex as yourself, that is your choice as well.  What scripture
I quoted above does allow for that interpretation.  

Do I think your interpreting God's meaning damns you to hell?  No.  
Do I disagree with you?  Yes.

Mostly because, I see nothing wrong in loving someone of the same sex
with all your heart.  That is called a best friend.  When you involve
sex in the equation, it changes to a "marriage" situation.  


Bboy also wrote:
>So, in my view, homosexuality is no big deal when you consider that
>there are 10 times more hetrosexual sinners out there that the church
>conviniently leaves out of the discussion.


First, Bboy it is "heterosexual".  I only point it out because you
misspelled it every time.

And by that logic, I can murder my next door neighbor as long as I do
it quickly and clean up after myself.  There is always someone worse
than you are.  That does not justify your actions though.  But then
again, logic and religion are not good bed fellows.

If you want to be picky, The Bible also says gluttony is a sin.  Do
you want to tell all these fat Americans that?


So my views:

Religion is of man.
Faith is of God.

Jesus says, first, love your God with all your heart, soul, and mind.
 And then do unto others as you would like them to do unto you.

I do my best to follow that.  And defend my right to do so.


Melody