Main List Problems

[stardancerofas]

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Wendy" <hebrideanblack at e...>
wrote:
> BIG SNIP> I am keeping a very big part of Wendy's post in this, just
for understanding , :)
> Now me (Wendy):
> 
> Well, I have just a couple of things I yet want to add to this 
> discussion, and this seemed a good place to start, as I particularly 
> want to address this comment, as, (in my also not-so-humble 
> opinion), you've put your finger on the button.
> 
> People aren't reading/following the posting guidelines.
> 
> But I very strongly disagree with your attitude that this is okay, 
> somehow, and to be expected because the document is "too" long, and 
> so of course all of us have filed the information back with info 
> from second grade.

> Lorrie Says (okay take deep breath and don't get pissed off) "my
attitude that this is okay? Excuse me Wendy, but never did I say that
this was okay, no did 'my attitude' imply that. Also there is a
discussion on the Main List about the InterNet and Understanding...you
might have a look at that one. I'm only suggesting that people CALM
DOWN a little about breaking the rules. I'm NOT saying being lazy is
alright, just a little expected. I do think a little less of the
Veterans who are JUST as guilty. And yes, to a degree it is to be
expected. OotP opened a whole new can of worms for everyone. It ain't
just new people  doing alot of this but people who have been around a
whole lot longer than you or I have. Is it right? No, has it happened Yes!

Wendy:
> When I joined this group, it was very clear to me that the group was 
> serious about these rules. I read them carefully, and for a year and 
> a half have done my best to follow them. I've made mistakes - but 
> never because I didn't KNOW the rules. My mistakes were 
> carelessness - forgetting to snip, or forgetting to change the 
> address of a post I meant to send privately, whatever. It is not 
> impossible to have a good working knowledge of the material in the 
> posting guidelines. I have. And I'm certainly not the only one. A 
> few months ago, it seemed to me as though the vast majority of 
> listees had this knowledge, and we were each doing our best to 
> follow the rules.

> Lorrie says (no being snide I promise :) ) I'm so glad that someone
on the planet has the brain power to remember EVERYTHING. I *wish* I
could do that.
Wendy said:
> Let's face facts: the group has rules. When each of us joined, we 
> were made aware of these rules. When did that change? Just because 
> someone is new and "enthusiastic" doesn't mean they should be held 
> to a lower standard than the rest of us. Sorry to rant at you like 
> this (I know you aren't the only one who feels this way), but I'm 
> just not sure that membership is this group should be a "right" of 
> anyone who wants to sign up. I always felt it was more of 
> a "privelege." That's the point of being on moderated status, after 
> all. You have to prove that you can follow the rules in order to be 
> given the privelege of unmoderated status. Now, it seems to me that 
> there are more than a few people posting to the list who really 
> haven't earned this privelege, because they simply aren't following 
> the rules. Laziness, enthusiasm, can't be bothered to learn the 
> rules - doesn't matter. There is no excuse for this, because it 
> shows a lack of respect for the rest of us when they behave this way.

> To which Lorrie replies: If you feel this strongly, then the only
solution is to email the OWNERS of the list and keep emailing them
until they do something about it. Membership is a privilege, not a
right, but the only one who can do anything are the MODs, List-Elves,
and OWNERS.

Wendy said:
> It seeems to me that it's a problem of list volume-to-elves ratio 
> here. Moderation just isn't working the way it used too because 
> there are so many messages. But I resent the implication that those 
> of us who've been doing our best (and reading, trying to remember, 
> and following the guidelines) should now be subjected to reams of 
> posts from people who refuse to do these things.
> 
> I'm not saying "newbies" here. I'm talking about rule-breakers. And 
> I don't feel that someone who isn't willing to follow the rules has 
> some sort of "right" to post here. 
> 
> I'm finding myself really angry about this, so it probably sounds 
> harsh. Maybe I am taking this too seriously. But, on reading it 
> through a second time, I realise that I really do mean what I'm 
> saying, so to tone it down would seem a bit ingenuous of me.

> Lorrie says: Have a coke and a smile, or a cup of tea and a biscuit.
You're really getting too worked up over something that *will* work
out right. The rules DO need to be obeyed (and that's a line that
unfortunately got edited out of my original post). All I'm saying is
for everyone to quit (pardon the language) bitching about it on list
and start complaining to the MODS and OWNERS. *Nothing* can be done by
us, only them. If the list is our Hogwarts, then Take it to the Heads
of House (the MODS) OR Dumbledore (The Owner).

> >Wendy Wrote:
> So what's to be done? I love the idea of having newcomers to the 
> group have a period of time in which they can only read posts 
> without replying. A week or two. Just to get the gist of both the 
> tone of discussions here, the proper way to go about formatting and 
> posting messages, and also an idea of what actual topics have been 
> discussed. 

> Lorrie: I agree with this option. IF enough of us stand behind it.

Wendy wrote:
> But that's not really going to address the situation now, as it 
> hardly seems fair to put people who've already joined onto this sort 
> of probation. So, I think the mods just need to really crack down on 
> violations, reject posts that are improper, and put repeat offenders 
> back on moderated status. I feel a bit guilty saying this, as none 
> of the work would fall to me. I'm not a mod. Then again, I've never 
> been asked to become one (I'd have been willing), nor have I ever 
> seen mentioned anywhere the process for becoming one. 
> 
> Lorrie again: All I'm going to say one more time, is that in the end
this will straighten itself out. People will learn the RULES, they
will learn to SNIP, they will learn that ONE LINE replies are bad!,
AND I'd be willing to bet money that in awhile, alot of these people
WON'T be here.
hp IS THE hot, new trendy thing right now. Most of those (myself
included) who joined before OotP didn't know about this or any of the
HP lists. I joined, then unjoined in one day. I was a little leery the
first time, didn't want to make a mistake, and thought I wouldn't fit
in. We all fit in, in one way or another, and we all learn from the
Group. Hell, I never knew what a TBAY post was and have now learned
how to do those. Not well mind you, but I am learning!
This is a difficult time for the list, the Mods, List-Elves and
probably Owners as well. Everyone take a deep breath. This is SUPPOSED
to be fun, relaxing, something that drags us away from the insanity of
real life. It will get better! 
Lorrie
(who hopes she hasn't ticked Wendy off, and isn't ticked off at Wendy :) )