Fanfics with slash & sex...I don't get it

Wed Jan 8 01:38:08 UTC 2003

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Vicki" <morrigan at b...> wrote:
> I'm undoubtedly going to be repeating some of what others have 
said, but
> here's my 2 knuts all the same.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Diana Lucas
> 
> >Extremely disgusting.  I'm glad my son doesn't know
> >how to read my email or find fanfics online.  Triple
> >yecch!
> 
> I certainly think that everyone is entitled to likes and dislikes, 
but the
> "extremely disgusting" comment seems... rather rude, like talking 
down or
> condemning anyone who likes that.  I'm going to just point that out 
while
> assuming that isn't the way you meant it to come across.
> 

This is a recurring thread of discussion among us HP fans, and one 
likely never to be resolved.  If Vicki really holds that everyone is 
entitled to their likes and dislikes, then two conclusions (among 
others) immediately follow:
1. Diane is equally entitled to her opinion about 
slash/incest/bestiality/what have you in HP fanfic, and she has a 
precisely equal right to express that feeling.  To rule that this 
particular opinion is not desrving of the same toleration as thouse 
who would pair Hagrid with Dennis Creavey, is at best inconsistent, 
at worst censorship of the saem kind as is implicitly condemned by 
the criticism of Diane's position, and condescending and patronizing 
to boot.
2. there is no point in having the above discussion in the first 
place, because if any one point of view were to prevail in argument, 
it would violate that sacred principle of all opinions are equally 
valid.

I trust that you can see that this is an example of a proof 
by "reductio ad absurdum" and that it shows that it is logically 
bankrupt to hold that "everybody is entitled to their likes and 
dislikes" means that nobody can criticize another's opinion.

If the Harry Potter
> >books introduced a gay/lesbian character I wouldn't
> >try to pair that character up with someone of the
> >opposite sex in a fanfic I wrote, so I can't see
> >trying to pair up hetrosexual characters with someone
> >of the same sex.
> 
> As more than one person has pointed out, we don't KNOW what any of 
their
> sexual orientations are.  

I think that this is deliberately disingenuous.  It relies on two 
asumptions: 1. if JKR does not explicitly delineate a character's 
sexuality, then he/she/it could have any possible orientation; and 
2.  Even if the sexual orientation is shown, then they still could be 
bi, or gay, or evolving in their sexuality.  I offer in partial 
demonstration of this Vicki's point immediately below.  Have you 
never heard of self-fulfilling prophecies?

Even those characters that have shown attraction
> or interest in another character of the opposite sex could in fact 
be
> bisexual, or even unsure of his or her own homosexuality.  I would 
honestly
> be shocked - pleasantly, but still shocked - if JKR ever introduces 
a
> character that is queer, be it gay, lesbian or bi.  I have never 
heard JKR
> make any sort of comment, either negative or positive, about queer 
folk, not
> to mention I can guess that her editors and publishers would BEG 
for her to
> change it.  Regardless of the fact that many of us would cheer such 
an
> addition, the negative people would far outrule us.
> 

"The negative people"  How is this for an "ad hominem attack?  How 
far does this go up that rudeness scale?

> 
> >Besides, I can't see 11 to
> >14-year-old children [the age span of Harry, Ron and
> >Hermione from PS/SS through GoF] being written as
> >having sex at all.  Why can't child characters remain
> >children without people writing about them having sex?
> >Yeah, free country, I know, so the writers have a
> >right to write that if they wish - and I support their
> >right to do it - I just refuse to read it.
> 
> The majority of people who write about sexual situations age the 
characters
> up.  As one of the moderators for RestrictedSection.org, an NC-17 
HP fanfic
> archive, I had to help decide what our cutoff would be.  You'd 
think that
> would be easy, but it wasn't.  We finally decided on 15, feeling 
that was
> the age when teenagers really tended to start dating and doing more 
than
> just holding hands.  JKR herself has said that there will be 
relationships
> happening because the main characters are getting older, and that 
IS what
> happens.  Granted, I doubt she will get into the intimate details, 
but it
> will be there, I have no doubt.
>

I personally have no problem with Vicki's or anyones right to write 
these stories.  Even as an adult, I do object to having my nose 
rubbed in them.  The powerful images in these stories create 
involuntary images that harm my mental picture of the HP world as 
written by JKR.  This effect was most excellently described on the 
mother list last year as the "tube of goo" effect (i.e., once we have 
been exposed to the thought of Sirius squeezing out the tube of goo 
in preparation for his tryst with Harry, even the most strong willed 
of us cannot shake the image).

A slash mb or slash section in FA or some other site would allow 
readers to know precisely what they are getting into-- so to speak-- 
and any complaints thereafter would have little validity. 

> >It's fun to dream up alternate stories for the
> >characters from TV shows and movies, but the best fan
> >fiction I've ever read, whether it's Star Trek, Star
> >Wars, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, The X-Files or Lord of
> >the Rings, has kept true to the characters as
> >envisioned and outlined by the ORIGINAL
> >creators/writers of the characters.
> 
> I am a complete and utter Canon Whore (tm), so I do know what 
you're saying.
> But part of the problem is that even with canon, every person who 
reads the
> books can interpret canon differently.  The best example I can give 
is
> shipping - my personal canon ship is Ron/Hermione, but there are 
plenty of
> people out there who are certain that canon suggests that Harry and 
Hermione
> will get together.  Who's right and who's wrong?  At this point, 
there IS no
> answer, and I personally see no problem extrapolating from what JKR 
has
> given us so far.  It's fun to speculate, but my point is - even 
canon can be
> argued.
> 
In response to this, I can only say that there are degrees of 
plausibility in speculation, and Diane, myself-- and more others that 
you might want to admit-- feel similarly. It is the utter closed-
mindedness that we encounter when we broach this issue that 
discourages free and open discussion about it.

> 
> >I know I sound like a prude or some religious fanatic,
> >but I swear I'm not.  I just can't fathom the appeal
> >of those kinds of fanfics at all and am admitting it.
> 
> I wish I could explain to you why I or anyone else finds it 
interesting and
> fun to write slash or sex fics.  Again, I could give you my 
reasons, but
> they'd probably be meaningless.  I think it may just come down to 
taste -
> some people like vanilla, some people like chocolate, some people 
like
> peanut butter fudge ripple.  There's no right or wrong involved.
> 
It is the "in your face" aspects of each side of this issue that is 
wrong.

Haggridd
"Beta Readers do it to perfection."
> Morrigan
> www.RestrictedSection.org
> www.livejournal.com/users/hermorrine
> www.byz.org/~morrigan/hpslash.html