Fanfics with slash & sex...I don't get it

[Haggridd <jkusalavagemd@yahoo.com>]

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Queer as John <john at q...> 
wrote:
> Before I start, I'd like to say that I'm taking the common 
definition of
> slash as gay pairings, m/m or f/f. I do *not* count explicit non-gay
> pairings as slash, however subtextual (Dumbledore/Sinistra all the 
way!)
> they may be. I point out that "slash" has been argued to mean any 
subtextual
> pairing, regardless of the participants' gender(s); for ease of use,
> however, I take the common definition.
> 

I have included them in following that previously stated principle 
that everyone's likes and dislikes are equally valid.  If you do not 
desire to defend these other pairings in fanfic that is up to you, 
but does it imply that you feel that they are any less worthy than 
Ron Hermione or Hagrid/Harry?

> Haggridd <jkusalavagemd at y...> said:
> 
> > I trust that you can see that this is an example of a proof
> > by "reductio ad absurdum" and that it shows that it is logically
> > bankrupt to hold that "everybody is entitled to their likes and
> > dislikes" means that nobody can criticize another's opinion.
> 
> To quote a certain Ent, "It doesn't make sense to me, but then 
again you are
> very small." I've always held that it's possible to have a 
meaningful
> discussion without recourse to terms like "logically 
bankrupt", "reductio ad
> absurdum" and "deliberately disingenous".
> 
> In addition, HPFGU policy has *always* been to use words which 
respect
> others opinions while at the same time advancing one's own.
> 

"Deliberately disingenuous" was a statement of my opinion, one of 
those equally valid ones.  "Reduction ad absurdum" is an old term, 
one which denotes a well-described method of proof, and it carries no 
emotional charge.  Logically bankrupt describes the outcome of the 
proof.  You may take issue with the rigor of my logic in the 
argument, but there is no disrespect for the opinions of others in 
the terms.

> > I personally have no problem with Vicki's or anyones right to 
write
> > these stories.  Even as an adult, I do object to having my nose
> > rubbed in them.  
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > A slash mb or slash section in FA or some other site would allow
> > readers to know precisely what they are getting into--so to speak-
-
> > and any complaints thereafter would have little validity.
> 
> Well, that's certainly true. However, the vast majority of slash 
stories are
> labelled as such in order to prevent theme-related flames from 
homophobes.


> In addition, most slash writers will increase the rating of their 
fics by at
> least one point in order to be on the safe side. Furthermore, most 
Authors'
> Notes/Summaries proclaim clearly all warnings, pairings, themes and 
age
> warnings.
> 
> Frankly, I'd much rather see
> 
> In my experience, it's *very* difficult to stumble onto slash fics 
without
> knowing what's contained therein. Mine, for example, are hosted and 
linked
> to from www.queerasjohn.com and http://queerasjohn.livejournal.com -
- domain
> names which portray what's behind the metaphorical curtain. Even on 
FA, my
> fics have slash warnings and mentions of the pairings either before 
clicking
> on the story or in the summary and author's note at the top of the 
page.
> 

I have less problem with stumbling upon fanfics such as you describe--
 I do think the stories are well-labeled-- than situations like the 
one occuring awhile ago on the main mb, where it was decreed that 
slash speculation-- at length-- was a permissible extension of 
canon.  It was then that posters were confronted with images that 
distorted their perceptions of JKR's wizarding world, and it was 
there that another poster coined that "tube of goo" phrase to 
describe how these images stuck (pun intended) to one's vision of the 
books.  Moving the discussion to OT cures a lot of this, and I hope 
that it will become more possible to hold and argue different 
opinions without both sides feeling attacked.

> As for the "nose-rubbing", I thought we were avoiding ad hominem 
attacks and
> loaded words.
> 

We are most definitely avoiding ad hominem attacks.  I certainly am, 
and I hope that you are as well, despite my hearing some mental alarm 
bells at some of your language.  I will write it off to an excess of 
sensitivity on my part.  As for loaded words, I would hope that we 
would wnat to use words loaded with meaning and not empty, vapid 
ones.  If you mean word that code for a lot of negatives to the 
reader that are used perhaps too loosely, such as homophobe, a quite 
agree and we should all strive to use powerful words that advance an 
argument without hostility.  There is and has been too much of this 
around.

> > In response to this, I can only say that there are degrees of
> > plausibility in speculation, and Diane, myself-- and more others 
that
> > you might want to admit-- feel similarly. It is the utter closed-
> > mindedness that we encounter when we broach this issue that
> > discourages free and open discussion about it.
> 
> As a slasher, and one of the very few male slashers, I have to say 
that I
> share your opinion. It's too often that we find someone espousing 
the cause
> of free speech while at the same time insisting that simply because 
of their
> sexual-orientation related material, fics be forcibly separated 
somehow from
> other types of fic, simply because of who the relationship is 
between. 

I do not advocate a "slash ghetto".  I do want to know enough about a 
story to make an intelligent choice whether to invest my time in it.


> Where to draw the line? And *why* draw the line?

Because of that respect we all have for everybody's likes and 
dislikes.  Remember? :)

> 
> > It is the "in your face" aspects of each side of this issue that 
is
> > wrong.
> 
> I couldn't agree more.
> 
> --John
> 

Let's shake on it, pal!
Haggridd
> ______________________________________
> 
> Queer as John || john at q...
> 
> AIM, YM & LJ @ QueerAsJohn || www.queerasjohn.com
> 
> "There's nowt as queer as folk."  --English proverb
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