Fanfics with slash & sex...I don't get it

[Simon Branford <simon.hp@virgin.net>]

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Haggridd 
<jkusalavagemd at y...>" <jkusalavagemd at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Simon Branford 
> <simon.hp at v...>" <simon.hp at v...> wrote:
> > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Haggridd wrote:
> > > It is that the fanfics should follow the spirit of the original 
> > > story (Thank you, ER!).  It is for this reason that slash 
> > > should carry content labels.  Having read the original stories, 
> > > one has certain expectation that deserve to be honored.  
> > 
> > So far in the story we have seen couples kissing (and only a few 
> > of those). This implies that any fic containing more than this 
> > should include a suitable warning, because it is not 
> > following 'the spirit of the original story'. Whether or not a 
> > rating of R or NC17 constitutes such a warning is up for 
> > discussion, but not terribly important.
> > 
> Simon, it is not that there is kissing per se, but the entire 
> manner in which JKR handles it, which is in an "innocent" (for want 
> of a better term) prepubescent (at least up til now) fashion.  This 
> may well change as Harry gets older, but this has been the case at 
> least up through GoF.  Even the one adult romance, that of Hagrid 
> and Maxime, has been presented in an innocent, pre-bite-of-apple 
> fashion. R vsersus NC17 has no bearing on the stories so far.  If 
> you are going to borrow movie ratings as they are applied today, 
> the series would be PG at most, at least with regard to sexuality.  
> The "tube of goo" threatens that image in a most basic way and, I 
> contend, is contrary to what has been written by JKR.

My comment about NC17 or R is not in relation to if the series has 
got that far (I agree that it has not) it is over whether a fic which 
states that it is rated as either of those is thus providing enough 
of a warning to readers about the likely content in relation to the 
orginal series or whether further warning are required (making it 
more explicit as to what the warning is about). The reason for 
borrowing from film ratings is that there seems to be a reasonably 
common agreement as to what each rating means and that many people 
use as the ratings on various fic sites.



> > I get the impression, Haggridd, that you believe the original 
> > stories to contain nothing homosexual (whether same sex couples 
> > kissing, showing feelings towards each other or more). I also 
> > know that other feel similarly. However there is a significant 
> > group of people who would (and do) disagree with this view.
> > 
> You are precisely correct.  I believe the original stories contain 
> nothing homosexual.  
> Every "example" that I have seen so far has been either an instance 
> of wishful thinking, or the assertion that an absence of JKR's 
> explicitly ruling out homosexual actions, intentions, thoughts, 
> etc. in an interaction between characters means that there can be, 
> should be, MUST BE a gay theme underlining the interaction.  To 
> resurrect another line from a poster on the mother list, "sometimes 
> a cigar is just a cigar."

> > > It is that the fanfics should follow the spirit of the original 
> > > story (Thank you, ER!).  It is for this reason that slash 
> > > should carry content labels.  Having read the original stories, 
> > > one has certain expectation that deserve to be honored.  

It is here that my main point, which got rather mislaid in total 
inaccuracy, on my part, last time, should have been. The statement 
that 'slash should carry content labels' is what I did not agree, 
because of the reasoning. If we say that it is not in the spirit of 
the original story then I feel we are missing a lot. Sexual activity 
of any nature, beyond kissing, has not been seen thus far. And so it 
would seem much more correct for the statement to have instead 
been 'any sexual activity, beyond kissing, should carry a content 
label'.



> > So who is right on what the original series shows and what its 
> > spirit is?
> 
> Why, that is and should be the point of a friendly, lively 
> discussion, not a food fight.

Not seen any flying food in this direction. Have been too busy eating 
it :)



> I would enjoy and find it intellectually stimulating to agrue from 
> the text any passage that you feel supports a gay relationship in 
> the stories by commission, not omission.  

You are unlikely to get such a discussion from me. I am not one of 
the people putting forward such ideas and I am not entirely sure that 
I agree with them. I just brought them into the debate.



> p.s.  Are you the same Simon who posted on the FAP "Homophobes and 
> where tO kick them" thread?  I thought you were very reasonable 
> there.  I hope you thought the same of me.

Nope, do not think I have posted on that thread (or if I did it must 
have been quite a while back, as it is not something I remember).



Clio:
> Anyway, I think that readers have a right to be warned if Harry and 
> Draco are all of a sudden have decided to be gay in a fic. Same as 
> I would like to be warned if a story takes place in an alternative 
> universe or if Dumbledore was married to Poppy out of the blue. It 
> is like stating the premises that fic is working under. 

I feel that this is a different matter. Such topics are talking about 
providing a back history for the fic and, as far as I know, the 
discussion I have been having solely concerns where the fic will go 
from such a starting point and not where it is starting from.

The question I believe that I have been talking about is whether or 
not an author would have to reveal at the beginning of the fic if 
they intend to have Harry and Draco in a gay relationship later in 
the fic. The discussion solely of giving warning as to the likely 
content of the fic will go.

Any fic starting written for year 5 of the trio will have an already 
known starting point. Should an author warn the auidence if there is 
going to be a gay relationship (e.g. Harry/Draco) in the fic? Should 
an author warn the auidence if there is going to be a het 
realtionship (e.g. Ginny/Seamus) in the fic? Even if both have the 
characters going as far (in terms of sexual activities)?


On a slightly side note would you ask Joanne Rowling to warn you 
before hand if one of the things you are going to find out in OotP is 
that Albus and Poppy are a married couple? If not then why ask the 
same from a fanfic author?



Haggridd:
> Simon:
> > Amy:
> > > tongue in cheek
> > 
> > Indeed and, I find, it is often the best place for the tongue to 
> > be :P
> 
>whose cheek?

It would not be for the gentleman to reveal such a detail!



Simon