From anneu53714 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 00:11:30 2003
From: anneu53714 at yahoo.com (Anne)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 00:11:30 -0000
Subject: British vs. US spelling/phrases (SPOILER)
In-Reply-To: <016401c33f60$70ade240$395fc487@personal>
Message-ID: <bdqjji+k96f@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Pinguthegreek" 
<pinguthegreek at p...> wrote:
> > 
>   S
> 
>   P
> 
>   O
> 
>   I
> 
>   L
> 
>   E
> 
>   R
> 
> 
>   I'd love to know exactly what a TOERAG is. I noticed that Lily 
Evans 
>   didn't hesitate to use this (presumable) insult toward James 
Potter.
> 
>   Toerag is only a mild insult. But at their age the only utterable 
one !
> 
>   Michelle
> 
> 

Yes, well, but, mild though it may be, what exactly does it mean? It 
sounds ... like...flapping skin or something. Better to be called a 
toerag than to be hit by Stinksap, though.

Anne U
(whose new motto is "Mimbulus Mimbletonia numquam titillandus";-)





From bettedavisgreen at aol.com  Tue Jul  1 00:15:10 2003
From: bettedavisgreen at aol.com (bettedavisgreen at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 20:15:10 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Main List Survival Strategy (WAS: Retreating to the...
Message-ID: <a1.3aedd8fc.2c322c8e@aol.com>

My strategy:

First tried to read them all (main list AND OT)

Gave up one and half day later, started looking for answers to my posts

And doing subject triages

Went to main list digest a couple of days ago (has anybody noticed digest was 
supposed to be daily, yet there are half a dozen digest every day?...), read 
the first, looked at all the others and decided to switch to web view

Haven't had the courage to go to web view yet (also, after two blunders in my 
posts, I couldn't really work the keyboard - my fingers hurt from having be 
punished under the clothes iron...)

Still doing subject and posters triage in OT

But feel so compltely lost and stupid with all brilliant things being said 
(and suddendly feeling my english is really poor indeed) have gone back to 
reading the humongous big file and other HPfGU for dummies files (have understood 
TBAY... or at least the general idea behind the concept - I can't even swim, 
let alone understand differences between ships, believe I'll stick to 
G.I.A.N.T.C.U.S.H.I.O.N., as it seems to be something that won't go too much adrift from 
the beach...)

Still in stupefied awe of Catlady

Cristina (who sometimes dreams of printing every single message on her 
company's laser printer, arranging everything neatly in subject order, and doing a 
book for personal use, as she memorizes things in print better than on the 
screen, but believes current bankruptcy state would not allow for consumption of 
100k A4 pages, plus some 3 cartdridges... oh well... and there's still all the 
fiction!)





********

Bette Davis Green Eyes are watching you!!!

<A HREF="http://pageperso.aol.fr/bettedavisgreen/mapage/divers.html">http://pageperso.aol.fr/bettedavisgreen/mapage/divers.html</A>

HPGCv1 a31 e++ x+ -- z+++ A27 Rhp HPa S+++ Mo HaP++ HG++ RW++ AD++ RH+++ VK& 
NhN& SB& DM--- O++ F sfD





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Tue Jul  1 00:21:23 2003
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 10:21:23 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: British vs. US spelling/phrases (SPOILER)
In-Reply-To: <bdqjji+k96f@eGroups.com>
References: <016401c33f60$70ade240$395fc487@personal>
Message-ID: <3F0160A3.15384.4478E2@localhost>

On 1 Jul 2003 at 0:11, Anne wrote:

> Yes, well, but, mild though it may be, what exactly does it mean? It 
> sounds ... like...flapping skin or something. Better to be called a 
> toerag than to be hit by Stinksap, though.

Reportedly, toerag doesn't mean much at all. Basically, it first became prominent on 
BBC television in the 1960s - broadcast rules meant that certain insults couldn't be used 
in scripts, so a list of acceptable insults were created and distributed to writers. Toerag 
appeared prominently in that list, and was therefore used a lot on BBC productions. As 
writers often wrote for other programs as well, it spread to ITV, etc.

>From there the word moved into common language.

I'm unclear as to whether the word was made up as a generic insult, or simply gained 
prominence in this way.

(You learn all sorts of interesting things by being a fan of the great Frank Burnside!).

Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They
don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit
the views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the
facts that need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From timregan at microsoft.com  Tue Jul  1 00:26:33 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 00:26:33 -0000
Subject: British vs. US spelling/phrases (SPOILER)
In-Reply-To: <bdqjji+k96f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bdqkfp+cf92@eGroups.com>


Hi All,

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter Anne wrote:
> Yes, well, but, mild though it may be, what exactly does it mean? 

The Oxford English Dictionary lists it as follows:

----------

 1. A rag wrapped round the foot and worn inside a shoe, in place of 
a sock   

 2. A tramp or vagrant; a despicable or worthless person. Also 
attrib. 
 
  1875 T. FROST Circus Life & Circus Celebrities xvi. 278 Toe rags 
is another expression of contempt..used..chiefly by the lower grades 
of circus men, and the acrobats who stroll about the country, 
performing at fairs. 1903 `T. COLLINS' Such is Life (1937) v. 
229 `Come over to the wagon, and have a drink of tea,' says I. `No, 
no,' says he, `none of your toe-rag business.' 1912 D. H. LAWRENCE 
Let. (1962) I. 154 Remember, whatever toe-rag I may be personally, I 
am the person she livanted with. So you be careful. 1960 H. PINTER 
Caretaker I. 9 All them toe-rags, mate, got the manners of pigs. 
1971 `H. CALVIN' Poison Chasers xii. 168 Move, ya useless big 
toerag! 1978 M. KENYON Deep Pocket xiii. 165 Could she have loved 
this toe-rag sheikh out of the desert? 1980 J. WAINWRIGHT Tainted 
Man 171 The Law doesn't differentiate between you and the most 
miserable towrag [sic] on the face of the earth.
----------

Cheers,

Dumbledad.





From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Tue Jul  1 00:31:44 2003
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 10:31:44 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: British vs. US spelling/phrases (SPOILER)
In-Reply-To: <3F0160A3.15384.4478E2@localhost>
References: <bdqjji+k96f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3F016310.20112.76095@localhost>

On 1 Jul 2003 at 10:21, Shaun Hately wrote:

> >From there the word moved into common language.
> 
> I'm unclear as to whether the word was made up as a generic insult, or simply gained 
> prominence in this way.

Addendum - doing some checking.

Toerag appears to have been a word in common use meaning 'beggar' around 1900. It 
referred to the practice among the poor of wrapping their feet in rags because they 
couldn't afford stockings. Over time it evolved into basically a generic way of insulting a 
person. There's a similar insult - toeragger - from about the same period, which was 
used by Pacific region sailors and appears to have been derived from the Maori (New 
Zealand indigenous people) term tua-rika-rika which is apparently one of the worst 
insults available in the Maori tongue - means slave literally.

But it grew into prominence as a result of the BBC word list (-8.




Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They
don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit
the views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the
facts that need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From artsylynda at aol.com  Tue Jul  1 00:41:30 2003
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 20:41:30 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter]Main List survival strategy
Message-ID: <a.32a04b72.2c3232ba@aol.com>

In a message dated 6/30/2003 8:18:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com writes:

> I still can't decide if OOP is a brilliant book with lots of deep 
> revelations that carries the action seamlessly forward, or whether 
> JKR has, so to speak, lost the plot. If any kind soul could enlighten 
> me I'd be most grateful! Offline would be fine if it's considered too 
> off-topic to be on-topic on an off-topic forum :))
> 
> ER
> 

I can't even survive this list!  I can only manage to keep up with the Movie 
list these days.  Yikes!

On your questions about whether OoP is brilliant or if JKR has lost her way 
-- I think it's a combination of the two.  Quite honestly, I think JKR has 
either gotten a new editor who is not as good as the old one(s), or that her 
editor (old or new) has become awed by JKR's success and was afraid to tell her 
"cut this" or "this needs a stronger conclusion" or "you left this thread 
dangling" or "this is flabby -- do something about it!"  Honestly, there are places 
where she left things out that should have been mentioned that are so simple -- 
who brought Harry his wand, for instance, oh rats I can't remember the scene, 
toward the end of the book and he didn't have it, then suddenly he did (I'm 
re-reading it now, not there *again* yet), but I wondered "where did his wand 
come from?  He didn't have it a while ago."  (Or am I remembering incorrectly?? 
 I did read it awfully fast the first time through.)  That's just one thing 
that hit me as being an "oopsie."  A good editor catches such things, and there 
are lots of places I can find in OoP that could've used a good editor's 
touch.  Despite all that, there are huge sections of JKR's normal brilliance.  But 
the pace of this book is more uneven than the others.  And why was it that 
Harry was unable to see the Thestrals pulling the carriages at the end of GoF (in 
GoF pg. 725 US version, they're called "horseless carriages")?  He'd seen 
Cedric die by that time, but they aren't mentioned until OoP.  Such continuity 
errors are confusing to the reader.  JMO.

Lynda 
* * *
". . .the cat's among the pixies now."  Mrs. Figg, OoP


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Tue Jul  1 01:11:25 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 01:11:25 -0000
Subject: Making sense of OOP (was Main List Survival Strategy)
In-Reply-To: <bdqaad+c3h4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bdqn3t+q8dg@eGroups.com>

ER wrote:

> I still can't decide if OOP is a brilliant book with lots of deep 
> revelations that carries the action seamlessly forward, or whether 
> JKR has, so to speak, lost the plot. If any kind soul could 
enlighten 
> me I'd be most grateful! Offline would be fine if it's considered 
too 
> off-topic to be on-topic on an off-topic forum :))

I recommend post 65807 on the main list by Dicentra:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/65807

David




From bard7696 at aol.com  Tue Jul  1 00:54:40 2003
From: bard7696 at aol.com (darrin_burnett)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 00:54:40 -0000
Subject: Darrin's Acro Entry
Message-ID: <bdqm4g+6kii@eGroups.com>

HARRY POTTER AND THE ORDER OF THE PHOENIX IS THE FIFTH BOOK IN THE 
BOY WIZARD SAGA AND PERHAPS THE DARKEST OF THE FIVE. BUT THE BOOK 
CONTAINS TRAGEDY, AS J.K. ROWLING SAYS SOMEONE DIES.

Heroic Adventurer Reveals Raging, Youthful, Passion, Only The Teen's 
Emerging Rancor Accentuates New Dynamic Toward Harry. Evil-fighting 
Order Reveals Dumbledore's Efforts Reluctantly. Order's Fight Teases 
Harry's Excitement, Perhaps His Own Efforts Needed. Ignored X-Rays 
Into Salazar's Trusted Heir's Energy Fuel Indignant Fury. Trusted 
Hermione Bold Observations On Kreacher, Ignored. New Troll-like Hag 
Enrages Bastion Of Youth With Ignorant Zeal After Reducing 
Dumbledore's Strength. Angry Grawp Achieves Amazing New Dimension, 
Punching Evil, Remembering Hermy! And Potter Sees The Hated Evil 
Desiring All Remaining Knowledge Entailing Sybil Trelawney's Operatic 
Future. Then Hated Evil Finally Introduces Veil Exterminating Black. 
Unyielding To Terror Harry, Engages Bellatrix, Only Odious Knowledge 
Creates Ooomph Needed To Afflict Injury. Now Sirius' Trainer, 
Regretful And Grieving, Encourages Destructive Youth After Jarring 
Knowledge. Reveals Other Wizard Lurking Is Neville. Greeting Sirus As 
Youthful Spectre Sustains Our Magic Explorer. Only Nick Evaporates 
Deception. Instead, Expunge Sirius. 

Darrin
-- Possessor of no life whatsoever.






From meboriqua at aol.com  Tue Jul  1 02:39:48 2003
From: meboriqua at aol.com (jenny_ravenclaw)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 02:39:48 -0000
Subject: about Main List: Catlady's marathon
In-Reply-To: <bdnj1o+ciot@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bdqs9k+77ca@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." <cindysphynx at c...> 
wrote:

> I keep going over just to marvel at the posting rate.  I wonder how 
many posts per minute there have been on average since the list 
re-opened?  I wonder what the highest number of posts in a single 
minute or hour might be?>

I wondered that, too.  I figured there are between 2-5 postings every 
minute, although in the last day or two, posting has slowed down to 
about 1-3 postings a minute (all speculation, of course).

It is hard to follow all the threads, but I must be honest and tell 
you all that I skip a LOT of them.  I skip threads when I see a 
subject that I've already read about several times, like the Black 
Veil, or "SHIP - Luna and Harry/Neville/Ron/Filch?!?".  I also skip 
certain people when I notice someone in particular who writes things I 
cannot read to save my life.  I save a good deal of time that way.

Since the list opened up again last Sunday afternoon, I have been 
spending more time online each day than I ever have - I was checking 
the main list every hour or so while I was still at school and now, I 
must be one for a good 2 hours a stretch every time I log on.  I have 
to disconnect the phone every time I log on, so I end up losing the 
connection every time someone calls - and missing a lot of phone calls 
on top of that.

I can only imagine how difficult it has been for the MEGs during the 
last week - even *I* got warnings about forgetting to use the OoP 
prefix, and I am a very good, rule abiding girl. :-)

--jenny from ravenclaw, who hasn't even ventured to OT in days 
************************************************




From bboy_mn at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 03:38:46 2003
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 03:38:46 -0000
Subject: Apparation question - Theory
In-Reply-To: <bdod0k+k7o6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bdqvo6+pvrc@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "alora" <chrisnlorrie at y...> wrote:
> *de-lurking*
> 
> ...edited...  I was just wondering if the sound is connected to 
> the ability ie a "pop"  if they have been apparating for a long time 
> and  "crack" when someone is still new at it.  Or as in Mundungus' 
> case, possibly drunk?  I don't know!  Does anyone else have any 
> thoughts on this?
> 
> Alora

bboy_mn:

I've got a theory (like that actually comes as a surprise to anyone).

The theory is the the intensity of the sound is proportional to the
intensity of the effort the wizard has to put into apparating. 

Voldemort and Dumbledore are old, VERY experience, and VERY POWERFUL
wizards, so, due to power and experience, it takes very little effort
to disapperate; no more noise than the swish of a cloak. 

Mundungus Fletcher (sp?), on the other hand. doesn't strike me as an
especially powerful wizard, so it takes a serious forced effort on his
part; result - loud crack. Molly and Arthur who are experience and
powerful, apparate with a 'pop'. Fred and George who are young and
while powerful, not very experienced at apparating, so I suspect as
easy as they make it seem, it still takes a concentrated effort, so
they 'crack'.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

bboy_mn





From zorb47 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 03:48:41 2003
From: zorb47 at yahoo.com (Zorb)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 20:48:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Apparation question - Theory
In-Reply-To: <bdqvo6+pvrc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030701034841.5505.qmail@web20502.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Steve <bboy_mn at yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "alora"

> The theory is the the intensity of the sound is
> proportional to the
> intensity of the effort the wizard has to put into
> apparating. 

This also explains why Harry didn't make any noise
when he Apparated onto the roof to escape Dudley,
unless we want to theorize that one cannot hear
oneself Apparating.  

Zorb, wondering: if a wizard Apparates into a forest,
does he make a sound?

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com



From terryljames at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  1 04:28:08 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 23:28:08 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Darrin's Acro Entry
Message-ID: <BAY8-F110dFXEdDs01G000089f0@hotmail.com>




>From: "darrin_burnett" <bard7696 at aol.com>
>Reply-To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
>To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Darrin's Acro Entry
>Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 00:54:40 -0000
>
>HARRY POTTER AND THE ORDER OF THE PHOENIX IS THE FIFTH BOOK IN THE
>BOY WIZARD SAGA AND PERHAPS THE DARKEST OF THE FIVE. BUT THE BOOK
>CONTAINS TRAGEDY, AS J.K. ROWLING SAYS SOMEONE DIES.
>
>Heroic Adventurer Reveals Raging, Youthful, Passion, Only The Teen's
>Emerging Rancor Accentuates New Dynamic Toward Harry. Evil-fighting
>Order Reveals Dumbledore's Efforts Reluctantly. Order's Fight Teases
>Harry's Excitement, Perhaps His Own Efforts Needed. Ignored X-Rays
>Into Salazar's Trusted Heir's Energy Fuel Indignant Fury. Trusted
>Hermione Bold Observations On Kreacher, Ignored. New Troll-like Hag
>Enrages Bastion Of Youth With Ignorant Zeal After Reducing
>Dumbledore's Strength. Angry Grawp Achieves Amazing New Dimension,
>Punching Evil, Remembering Hermy! And Potter Sees The Hated Evil
>Desiring All Remaining Knowledge Entailing Sybil Trelawney's Operatic
>Future. Then Hated Evil Finally Introduces Veil Exterminating Black.
>Unyielding To Terror Harry, Engages Bellatrix, Only Odious Knowledge
>Creates Ooomph Needed To Afflict Injury. Now Sirius' Trainer,
>Regretful And Grieving, Encourages Destructive Youth After Jarring
>Knowledge. Reveals Other Wizard Lurking Is Neville. Greeting Sirus As
>Youthful Spectre Sustains Our Magic Explorer. Only Nick Evaporates
>Deception. Instead, Expunge Sirius.
>
>Darrin
>-- Possessor of no life whatsoever.
>
>

This is truly brilliant, Darrin!  And somehow...disturbing.  :)

Terry LJ (acronymically challenged)

_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail




From Erthena at aol.com  Tue Jul  1 04:49:26 2003
From: Erthena at aol.com (werebearloony)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 04:49:26 -0000
Subject: Harrius Potter et Philosiphi lapis (harry potter in latin)
Message-ID: <bdr3sm+tntg@eGroups.com>

That's right they translated PS into latin for us.  I hope that 
there are a couple more latin speakers out there who are as excited 
for todays release as I am (actually its still Jun 30 here but it's 
very colse to July 1).  I went and checked the bloomsbury website 
and those fo you in the UK can just order it there.  Those of us in 
the US (myself included) and other places will have to find a way to 
get our hands on a copy.  I wanted to pass this info along for 
anyone who didn't know and was like me translating the whole thing 
into latin anyway.
Semper ubi sub ubi (including grey ones)
--loony




From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 04:51:02 2003
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 04:51:02 -0000
Subject: Apparation question - Theory
In-Reply-To: <20030701034841.5505.qmail@web20502.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bdr3vm+4dki@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Zorb <zorb47 at y...> wrote:
> 
> This also explains why Harry didn't make any noise
> when he Apparated onto the roof to escape Dudley,
> unless we want to theorize that one cannot hear
> oneself Apparating.  
> 
> Zorb, wondering: if a wizard Apparates into a forest,
> does he make a sound?


Whoa, I had forgotten that Harry had done that.  Is that possibly a 
clue to how powerful Harry might be?  Thanks, everyone, for all the 
great theories!

Alora




From bettedavisgreen at aol.com  Tue Jul  1 08:08:10 2003
From: bettedavisgreen at aol.com (bettedavisgreen at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 04:08:10 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Harrius Potter et Philosiphi lapis (harry potter in lat...
Message-ID: <c6.1f3a65b9.2c329b6a@aol.com>

Dans un e-mail dat? du 01/07/2003 06:49:46 Paris, Madrid (heure d'?t?), 
Erthena at aol.com a ?crit :

> That's right they translated PS into latin for us.  I hope that 
> there are a couple more latin speakers out there who are as excited 
> for todays release as I am (actually its still Jun 30 here but it's 
> very colse to July 1).  I went and checked the bloomsbury website 
> and those fo you in the UK can just order it there.  Those of us in 
> the US (myself included) and other places will have to find a way to 
> get our hands on a copy.  I wanted to pass this info along for 
> anyone who didn't know and was like me translating the whole thing 
> into latin anyway.
> Semper ubi sub ubi (including grey ones)
> --loony
> 

But... when I was at WH Smith Paris for the OotP release, the latin edition 
was already there...

And you can get it in Amazon! :)

Cristina 



********

Bette Davis Green Eyes are watching you!!!

<A HREF="http://pageperso.aol.fr/bettedavisgreen/mapage/divers.html">http://pageperso.aol.fr/bettedavisgreen/mapage/divers.html</A>

HPGCv1 a31 e++ x+ -- z+++ A27 Rhp HPa S+++ Mo HaP++ HG++ RW++ AD++ RH+++ VK& 
NhN& SB& DM--- O++ F sfD





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From emelinemoore at mianla.net  Tue Jul  1 08:08:52 2003
From: emelinemoore at mianla.net (Emeline Moore)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 08:08:52 -0000
Subject: Harrius Potter et Philosiphi lapis (harry potter in latin)
In-Reply-To: <bdr3sm+tntg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bdrfik+101ls@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "werebearloony" 
<Erthena at a...> wrote:
> That's right they translated PS into latin for us. Those of us in 
> the US (myself included) and other places will have to find a way  
> to get our hands on a copy.

I saw this the week before OOP was due out!

People in the US can get their hands on a copy at BN.com (and I 
imagine their local Barnes and Noble) for $17.56.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?
ISBN=1582348251

-Emeline






From bettedavisgreen at aol.com  Tue Jul  1 08:25:49 2003
From: bettedavisgreen at aol.com (bettedavisgreen at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 04:25:49 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re:  Apparating
Message-ID: <149.144988fd.2c329f8d@aol.com>

Dans un e-mail dat? du 01/07/2003 01:32:03 Paris, Madrid (heure d'?t?), 
anneu53714 at yahoo.com a ?crit :

> Yes, Fred &George are much more crackers than poppers at this point. 
> They are so proud of passing their Apparation test, aren't they?? 
> Methinks they would apparate across the Gryffindor common room if 
> they thought Hermione would let them get away with it (which she 
> wouldn't).
> 
> Anne U
> 

For Heaven's sakes, haven't you read Hogwarts, a History??? You can't 
apparate in the Hogwarts' grounds!!!

Cristina :)



********

Bette Davis Green Eyes are watching you!!!

<A HREF="http://pageperso.aol.fr/bettedavisgreen/mapage/divers.html">http://pageperso.aol.fr/bettedavisgreen/mapage/divers.html</A>

HPGCv1 a31 e++ x+ -- z+++ A27 Rhp HPa S+++ Mo HaP++ HG++ RW++ AD++ RH+++ VK& 
NhN& SB& DM--- O++ F sfD





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 13:43:20 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 13:43:20 -0000
Subject: Return chapter-summaries (was Re: about Main List: Catlady's marathon)
In-Reply-To: <bdnkgu+cjkh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bds35o+b6in@eGroups.com>

Christian wrote:

> Consider this a request for the mdoerators to return this excellent 
> feature to HPfGU.

Thanks for the suggestion, Christian!  Yeah, those were great, and we 
have the plan in place to do the same for OOP.  At the moment we 
don't exactly have a dearth of posts; the general plan is to start 
the chapter summaries when things slow down.  At current rates, that 
should be approximately May 2006 <g>.

So as not to clog up OTC with list-running suggestions, please 
respond to this thread by writing to hpforgrownups-
owner at yahoogroups.com.

Amy Z




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 13:52:14 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 13:52:14 -0000
Subject: Off-Off Topic... my baby's growing up!
In-Reply-To: <bdq11s+iiac@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bds3me+qvpg@eGroups.com>

Jen wrote:

> Oh!  Ps.  If you can, send good thoughts in the 
> general direction of my husband.  He's applying 
> for a Fulbright Teacher Exchange fellowship, and 
> we're really hoping he's accepted, as we've never 
> been out of the country.  

Ooh, good luck--with both the Fulbright, and keeping up with your new 
toddler!

Amy
who just loves that age so much and just about melted when she 
read "GEE!"




From rvotaw at i-55.com  Tue Jul  1 14:35:56 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:35:56 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter]Main List survival strategy
References: <a.32a04b72.2c3232ba@aol.com>
Message-ID: <019c01c33fde$159c4bc0$819fcdd1@RVotaw>

At the risk of being too on topic for an off topic list I'll jump in and defend JKR just a bit. :)

Lynda wrote:

> where she left things out that should have been mentioned that are so simple -- > who brought Harry his wand, for instance, oh rats I can't remember the scene, 
> toward the end of the book and he didn't have it, then suddenly he did (I'm 
> re-reading it now, not there *again* yet), but I wondered "where did his wand 
> come from?  He didn't have it a while ago."  (Or am I remembering incorrectly?? 

It seems a lot of people missed that.  I did too at first, and went back to check it.  But it was so neatly inserted that it just didn't stand out.  Ron gave both Harry and Hermione their wands.  US edition page 760.


> GoF pg. 725 US version, they're called "horseless carriages")?  He'd seen 
> Cedric die by that time, but they aren't mentioned until OoP.  Such continuity 
> errors are confusing to the reader.  JMO.

JKR cleared that one up at the UK interview where she did the OOP reading.  According to her, she didn't want to stick them in at the end of GoF and not explain them.  Therefore she decided you had to have time to process the death, think about it a while, and then you see them.  My particular problem is with the use of the words "seen death."  I think it should be "witness death" since Harry didn't actually *see* Cedric die.  Which I seem to be the only one who has a problem with that particular thing.

Richelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 17:14:56 2003
From: jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com (Haggridd)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 17:14:56 -0000
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT:  The 2003 Pickled Toad Awards
Message-ID: <bdsfig+civn@eGroups.com>

The polls have closed and the fans have shown their will.  The 
winners of the first annual Pickled Toad awards for their categories 
are as follows.  There will be a new poll running until July 15th on 
OT Chatter including all the category winners to pick the Best Filk 
of the Year.

1.  Best filk of a song from a musical, or a showtune:
    "Dark Defense Tutorial", by Pippin

2.  Best filk of a song from a movie or television  
    soundtrack:
    "If you'd just Let Me Explain", by Pippin

3.  Best filk of a "Tin Pan Alley" song:
    "That's Why Ol' Snapey Is a Vamp", by Pippin

4.  Best filk of a Gilbert & Sullivan song:
    "I Am the Very Model Of an Anti-Hero Archetype", by Mariner

5.  Best filk of a song by the Beatles or an indivdual Beatle:
    "The Dobby Road Album", by Gail, Pippin and Lilac

6.  Best filk of a Rock & Roll song written before 1980:
    "Mr. Black, You Made a Fine Marauder" by Tann

7.  Best filk of a Rock & Roll song written 1980 or later:
    "Immaterial Girl", by CMC

8.  Best filk of a tune not known to the listener:
    TIE!
    "The Rat That Got Away", by CMC  and
    "Cruel, Cruel Incredulous Men", by Haggridd

9.  Best filk of a song nominated by its author, Author's choice:
    "The Ballad of Harry Potter", by Gail

10. Best filk, best choice of vehicle:
    TIE!
    "Azkaban", by CMC  and
    "Harry Potter and the Declaration Of Independence: Songs From the 
    Musical 1776", by Haggridd

11. Best filk of a Christmas song:
    "The Nativity Filks", by Melody and Pip

12. Best filk of a Disney song:
    Superbureaucraticmagicaladministration", by CMC

13. Best filk of a Tom lehrer song:
    "Torturing Muggles In the Dark", by Mariner

14. Best filk of a song that relates to HP fandom:
    TIE!
    "It's a Book", by Marina  and
    "Let's hold the Fanfic Off", by Pippin

15. Best dramatization of a scene from canon in a serious fashion:
    "Cedric Diggory Guy", by Stefan

16. Best dramatization of a scene from canon in a humorous fashion:
    TIE!
    "If You'd Just Let me Explain", by Pippin and
    "One More Handshake", by Mariner

Congratulations to all the category winners.  They will all be 
contacted shortly by e-mail to determine whether they will be at 
Nimbus 2003 to receive your Pickled Toad award in person, or, if not, 
how they wish to have their awards sent.

Please everybody vote for the best filk of the year on the new poll 
of all the category winners.  This poll will only run for two weeks, 
in order to have a Best Filk of the Year in time for Nimbus 2003.

Thank you all for your participation in making the Pickled toad 
awards a reality.

Haggridd 





From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Tue Jul  1 17:32:05 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 17:32:05 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter 
Message-ID: <1057080725.421.54496.w3@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-OTChatter group:

2003 Pickled Toad Awards:  Which of 
these category winners is the Best Filk 
Of the Year?  Vote for one filk only.
Filks may be found at CMC's HP filksite:
http://home.att.net/~coriolan/
or as otherwise specified. 

  o Dark Defense Tutorial, by Pippin 
  o If You'd just Let Me Explain, by Pippin 
  o That's Why Ol' Snapey Is a Vamp. by Pippin 
  o I Am the Very Model Of an Anti-Hero Archetype, by Mariner 
  o The Dobby Road Album, by Gail, Pippin and Lilac 
  o Mr. Black, You Made a Fine Marauder, by Tann 
  o Immaterial Girl, by CMC 
  o The Rat That Got Away, by CMC 
  o Cruel, Cruel Incredulous Men, by Haggridd 
  o The Ballad of Harry Potter, by Gail 
  o Azkaban, by CMC 
  o Harry Potter and the Declaration Of Independence: songs from the musical 1776, by Haggridd (found at www.riddikulus.org) 
  o The Nativity Filks, by Melody and Pip 
  o Superbureaucraticmagicaladministration, by CMC 
  o Torturing Muggles In the Dark, by Mariner 
  o It's a Book, by Marina 
  o Let's Hold the Fanfic off, by Pippin 
  o One More Handshake, by Mariner 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=1113579  

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 







From bboy_mn at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 20:14:18 2003
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 20:14:18 -0000
Subject: Apparation question - Theory
In-Reply-To: <bdr3vm+4dki@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bdsq2q+10041@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "alora" <chrisnlorrie at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Zorb <zorb47 at y...> wrote:
> > 
> > This also explains why Harry didn't make any noise
> > when he Apparated onto the roof to escape Dudley,
> > unless we want to theorize that one cannot hear
> > oneself Apparating.  
> > 
> > Zorb,


> 
> 
> Whoa, I had forgotten that Harry had done that.  Is that possibly a 
> clue to how powerful Harry might be?  Thanks, everyone, for all the 
> great theories!
> 
> Alora

bboy_mn:

Let's not get too carried away. We don't have a real-time account of
Harry apparating to the top of the school, only Harry's recollection.
By that, I don't mean to call into dispute the accuracy of Harry's
memory, but simply to say that relative to flying, any incidental
noise would have seemed insignificant. I don't think we can say
whether or not there was a noise when he apparated that time at school.

Just a thought.

bboy_mn




From bboy_mn at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 20:19:09 2003
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 20:19:09 -0000
Subject: British vs. US spelling/phrases (SPOILER)
In-Reply-To: <bdqkfp+cf92@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bdsqbt+ctum@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tim Regan" <timregan at m...> wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter Anne wrote:
> > Yes, well, but, mild though it may be, what exactly does it mean? 
> 
> The Oxford English Dictionary lists it as follows:
> 
> ----------
> 
>  1. A rag wrapped round the foot and worn inside a shoe, in place of 
> a sock   
> 
>  2. A tramp or vagrant; a despicable or worthless person. Also 
> attrib. 
>  
> ...edited..
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Dumbledad.

bboy_mn:

Gee... I would have thought a Toe Rag was a cloth that you used to
clean the 'toe jam' from between your toes. 

Disgusting... so a person referred to as a Toe Tag would be a dirty
disgusting person, but it's very hard to argue with the Oxford Dictionary.

Just a thought.

bboy_mn




From pinguthegreek at pinguthegreek.net  Tue Jul  1 20:23:09 2003
From: pinguthegreek at pinguthegreek.net (Pinguthegreek)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:23:09 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: British vs. US spelling/phrases (SPOILER)
References: <bdsqbt+ctum@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <022401c3400e$9a0478d0$395fc487@personal>


Gee... I would have thought a Toe Rag was a cloth that you used to
clean the 'toe jam' from between your toes. 

Disgusting... so a person referred to as a Toe Tag would be a dirty
disgusting person, but it's very hard to argue with the Oxford Dictionary.

Ratbag is a much better word. Or just Rat. 

Michelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Tue Jul  1 20:42:50 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 20:42:50 -0000
Subject: Darrin's Acro Entry
In-Reply-To: <bdqm4g+6kii@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bdsroa+dk0o@eGroups.com>

Darrin wrote:

> HARRY POTTER AND THE ORDER OF THE PHOENIX IS THE FIFTH BOOK IN THE 
> BOY WIZARD SAGA AND PERHAPS THE DARKEST OF THE FIVE. BUT THE BOOK 
> CONTAINS TRAGEDY, AS J.K. ROWLING SAYS SOMEONE DIES.
> 
> Heroic Adventurer Reveals Raging, Youthful, Passion, Only The 
Teen's 
> Emerging Rancor Accentuates New Dynamic Toward Harry. Evil-fighting 
> Order Reveals Dumbledore's Efforts Reluctantly. Order's Fight 
Teases 
> Harry's Excitement, Perhaps His Own Efforts Needed. Ignored X-Rays 
> Into Salazar's Trusted Heir's Energy Fuel Indignant Fury. Trusted 
> Hermione Bold Observations On Kreacher, Ignored. New Troll-like Hag 
> Enrages Bastion Of Youth With Ignorant Zeal After Reducing 
> Dumbledore's Strength. Angry Grawp Achieves Amazing New Dimension, 
> Punching Evil, Remembering Hermy! And Potter Sees The Hated Evil 
> Desiring All Remaining Knowledge Entailing Sybil Trelawney's 
Operatic 
> Future. Then Hated Evil Finally Introduces Veil Exterminating 
Black. 
> Unyielding To Terror Harry, Engages Bellatrix, Only Odious 
Knowledge 
> Creates Ooomph Needed To Afflict Injury. Now Sirius' Trainer, 
> Regretful And Grieving, Encourages Destructive Youth After Jarring 
> Knowledge. Reveals Other Wizard Lurking Is Neville. Greeting Sirus 
As 
> Youthful Spectre Sustains Our Magic Explorer. Only Nick Evaporates 
> Deception. Instead, Expunge Sirius. 

Wow!

Darrin, is there any way for you to make some dough out of this gift 
you have?  Dang!

As for me, I plan to serve one heck of an acronym my own self.  One 
of these days.  When I have time.  I got started last night, you 
know.  Really!

Cindy -- who was getting help from her daughter until it was her 
bedtime




From kslivlib at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 21:28:12 2003
From: kslivlib at yahoo.com (kslivlib)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 21:28:12 -0000
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT:  The 2003 Pickled Toad Awards
In-Reply-To: <bdsfig+civn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bdsudc+9a6k@eGroups.com>

I feel very foolish for having to ask this question but.... is there 
a place where I can see these filks?  I have only recently become a 
filk fan and would love to read the ones that won the pickled toad 
awards.
Thanks,
Kelly




From psychic_serpent at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 21:34:11 2003
From: psychic_serpent at yahoo.com (psychic_serpent)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 21:34:11 -0000
Subject: British vs. US spelling/phrases (SPOILER)
In-Reply-To: <022401c3400e$9a0478d0$395fc487@personal>
Message-ID: <bdsuoj+7503@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Pinguthegreek" 
<pinguthegreek at p...> wrote:
> 
> Gee... I would have thought a Toe Rag was a cloth that you used to
> clean the 'toe jam' from between your toes. 
> 
> Disgusting... so a person referred to as a Toe Tag would be a dirty
> disgusting person, but it's very hard to argue with the Oxford 
> Dictionary.
 
Did you mean to write "toe rag" again instead of "toe tag?"  I 
believe a 'toe tag' is something on bodies at the morgue, to 
identify them. 

--Barb, waiting for the second season of "Six Feet Under" to come 
out on DVD <g>





From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Tue Jul  1 22:03:52 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 22:03:52 -0000
Subject: Darrin's Acro Entry
In-Reply-To: <bdqm4g+6kii@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bdt0g8+g4td@eGroups.com>


> Darrin
> -- Possessor of no life whatsoever.

PONLW? I don't get it.

David




From gandharvika at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  1 22:28:01 2003
From: gandharvika at hotmail.com (Gail Bohacek)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 22:28:01 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The 2003 Pickled Toad Awards
Message-ID: <Law8-F26YHkidcDjoYA000150d5@hotmail.com>

Kelly Wrote:

>I feel very foolish for having to ask this question but.... is there
>a place where I can see these filks?

There sure is:  http://home.att.net/~coriolan/hpfilks.htm

>Thanks,

No prob.

-Gail B...always willing to oblige, especially when it comes to filks.

_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail




From ression at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  1 23:05:18 2003
From: ression at hotmail.com (ER)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 23:05:18 -0000
Subject: Making sense of OOP (was Main List Survival Strategy)
In-Reply-To: <bdqn3t+q8dg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bdt43e+9nfv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "David" <dfrankiswork at n...> 
wrote:
> 
> I recommend post 65807 on the main list by Dicentra:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/65807
> 

An excellent post, thanks for pointing it out. It made good sense, 
though I'm not sure it entirely eases the sense of disappointment. 
Wouldn't it be nice if there was a read-only group with the best of 
the week's main list posts on it. Hint, hint! Oh, OK ...

ER






From ression at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  1 23:12:46 2003
From: ression at hotmail.com (ER)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 23:12:46 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter]Main List survival strategy
In-Reply-To: <a.32a04b72.2c3232ba@aol.com>
Message-ID: <bdt4he+3rg0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, artsylynda at a... wrote:
> 
> On your questions about whether OoP is brilliant or if JKR has lost 
her way 
> -- I think it's a combination of the two.  Quite honestly, I think 
JKR has 
> either gotten a new editor who is not as good as the old one(s), or 
that her 
> editor (old or new) has become awed by JKR's success and was afraid 
to tell her 
> "cut this" or "this needs a stronger conclusion" or "you left this 
thread 
> dangling" or "this is flabby -- do something about it

This does seem possible doesn't it. It's a shame though. Wonder if 
the publishers were pushing for a deadline (contractural or not) to 
be met and they told the editors not to be too picky? Maybe it'll 
read better the second time through? But my reaction first time 
through was "is that it?" And if I can spot things like the Thestrals 
I'm sure the real experts will start to find holes all over the 
place. Sigh.

ER




From bard7696 at aol.com  Tue Jul  1 23:30:33 2003
From: bard7696 at aol.com (darrin_burnett)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 23:30:33 -0000
Subject: Darrin's Acro Entry
In-Reply-To: <bdsroa+dk0o@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bdt5ip+m4ql@eGroups.com>

Cindy:

> 
> Darrin, is there any way for you to make some dough out of this 
gift 
> you have?  Dang!

I'll apply for a government job :)

 
> As for me, I plan to serve one heck of an acronym my own self.  One 
> of these days.  When I have time.  I got started last night, you 
> know.  Really!
> 
> Cindy -- who was getting help from her daughter until it was her 
> bedtime


I started this acro about 7 p.m. last night and when I finished, I 
realized it was 9:30. 

Man, I need a girlfriend.

Darrin




From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  2 00:34:12 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 17:34:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The Acronym Challenge
In-Reply-To: <bdqd1t+3jik@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030702003412.27853.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com>

Cindy:
> So, uh, Wolf.  What's your longest
> acronym?  Do you guys want to 
> engage in a little acronym challenge,
> hmmm?  I wonder who can come up 
> with the longest and best acronym
> concerning OoP?  You know, to win 
> the title of "Best Acronym Generator
> In The Free World."  ;-)
> 
> Hmmm.  Any takers?  
> 
> <gives Grey Wolf her best "come
> hither" glance> 
> 
> Cindy -- who just might e-mail
> Tabouli and Darrin off-list so they 
> don't miss out

But...but...

Since the acronyms are essentially 
mnemonic devices, wouldn't shortest 
be just as good, if not better, a 
goal to shoot for as longest?  That 
is, if all other aspects (cleverest, 
funniest, covers the most important 
points of theory, etc.) are equal?  
What's the point of acronyms that 
people can't remember without the 
aid of more acronyms?  <g>

Y'know, IIRC, there's one wordplay 
that JKR hasn't engaged in yet: 
palindromes.  How's THAT for one 
helluva challenge for all ye 
Architects of Acronyms?

Petra, addicted to alliteration
a
n  :)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com



From bboy_mn at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  2 00:53:25 2003
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 00:53:25 -0000
Subject: Need FanFic Help - Deep South
Message-ID: <bdtae5+9oap@eGroups.com>

This is way off topic, but I was wondering if we have someone from the
deep south (USA) or familiar with the deep south.

SETUP-

Through a long series of events, Dobby and Harry are meeting with a
southern plantation owner (a wizard). Being from a very old and rich
southern family, this plantation has had both men-slave and
elf-slaves. Currently, they only have house and farm elves, and I
think it goes without saying that none of them are free elves.

As a side note, you can imagine how uncomfortable, to put it gently,
this southern plantation owner is having a house-elf enter through the
front door and sit for tea (actually lemonade) with him in his living
room. But if things work out, he stands to make a great deal of money
entering into a business arrangement with Harry, so as much as it
irritates him, he's willing to endure it. 

QUESTION #1-
After offerring Harry refreshment, they decide on lemonade; Harry
likes lemons. So when the house-elf bring the tray, what else should
be on it? 

Note: this is an unexpected meeting; Dobby and Harry just drop by.
It's not a planned or scheduled meeting, so the host hasn't had time
to prepare.

Lemonade and biscuits (either cookies or actual American biscuits)?
Pastry?
?

I'm looking for an additional treat, probably finger food, that would
reflect southern cooking. This meeting takes place mid-afternoon.

I guess I can alway make it jelly dognuts or cookies or something, but
I would like it to reflect the south. Sweet Potato pie would be good,
but it's not really finger food. So a southern pastry, pie, cake,
roll, other sweet treat...

Any thoughts?


Final note: I really do have a believable way to get Harry and Dobby
AND Ron on a southern plantation; as impossible as that might seem.

This is a very minor plot point, but it's driving me nuts, so I need
to resolve it.

QUESTION #2-

I need some common (stereotypical) slave names (for the elves), both
male and female, or any suggestion where I might be able to look these
up. So far, all I've come up with is Eliza and Toby. 



Thank a bunch for any suggestions you might have.

bboy_mn







From bard7696 at aol.com  Wed Jul  2 01:17:21 2003
From: bard7696 at aol.com (darrin_burnett)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 01:17:21 -0000
Subject: The Story of SS/PS in an Acro
Message-ID: <bdtbr1+b7lm@eGroups.com>

PHILOSOPHERS STONE, CHAMBER OF SECRETS, PRISONER OF AZKABAN, GOBLET 
OF FIRE, ORDER OF THE PHOENIX

Here is the story of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone: 

Potter's Historical Information: Lily's Overwhelming Sacrifice; 
Overlord Perishes? Harry Enters Rancid Surroundings; Startling Truth 
Opens New Environment - Charming Hogwarts! Angry Malfoy Berates 
Enraged Ron; Overarching Feud Starts. Excellent Charmer Ron 
Extinguishes Troll. Sneaky Potter Relishes Invisibility. Starts 
Ogling New, Exceptional Reflection. Our Friends Advocate Zealous 
Knowledge, Already Blaming A Noxious Greaseball. Odious Bastard Leads 
Entry To Ominous Forbidden Forest. Imbibing Rubeus Endangers Object. 
Recalled Dumbeldore Exits. Ron's Overwhelming Faithfulness; True 
Hermione's Excellence Precede Harry Overcoming Evil Neatly, 
Instigating Xanadu-happiness!

OK, YOU COME up with a good X-word there. Why couldn't it have been 
the Order of the Parakeets?

Darrin




From falcon21 at earthlink.net  Wed Jul  2 01:48:08 2003
From: falcon21 at earthlink.net (falcon21 at earthlink.net)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:48:08 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Need FanFic Help - Deep South
References: <bdtae5+9oap@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000801c3403b$fdb372f0$0201a8c0@holden1>

I'm willing to give you a hand, just email me privately at falcon21 at earthlink.net 

Falcon
  Thank a bunch for any suggestions you might have.

  bboy_mn





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  Is your message...
  An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
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From beelissa at nycap.rr.com  Wed Jul  2 03:06:45 2003
From: beelissa at nycap.rr.com (melissaworcester)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 03:06:45 -0000
Subject: Luna questions
Message-ID: <bdti85+abm0@eGroups.com>

Hi everyone! I am on no-mail here, so if you reply to this please 
leave the subject the same so I can find it, when reading on the web 
site.

I want to write fan fiction about Luna, and I have some questions. I 
returned OoP to the library so I can't look these up and I wonder if 
anyone could tell me:

How old was Luna when her mother died? 

Does it mention or hint at any siblings she has or other members of 
her household (like a grandmother who lives with her and her father, 
etc.)?

Is there any hint of where she lives or whether it's the same 
Lovegood family mentioned at the beginning of GoF, when they meet at 
the portkey to go to the World Cup?

Can someone list some of the strange creatures or other things she 
seems to believe in that Hermione is convinced doesn't exist?

Any help with any of these questions would be greatly appreciated, 
thanks!

Melissa




From boggles at earthlink.net  Wed Jul  2 06:45:42 2003
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 01:45:42 -0500
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: OOP: It is Snape's fault!!!!
In-Reply-To: <bdt029+os70@eGroups.com>
References: <bdt029+os70@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <p05200f02bb282f368efd@[192.168.1.100]>

At 9:56 PM +0000 7/1/03, greatlit2003 wrote:
>I personally
>wouldn't want to teach someone that had no respect for my privacy,
>and made no effort to learn what I was teaching.
>
><snip>
>Not all teenagers allow their curiosity to get the better of them.
>For all of his strengths, one of Harry's biggest problems is his
>nosiness. No teacher should have to worry that their fifteen year
>student will go snooping around their office.

replying offlist and to OT-Chatter, as this isn't canon-based -

I teach fifteen-year-olds, and while this isn't true of all of them, 
I have certainly had a non-trivial number who had no respect for my 
privacy and would gladly have snooped through my stuff when I wasn't 
there if I hadn't kept it locked up.  And not all of those who feel 
in this category were ones that I would otherwise characterize as 
troublemakers, or even particularly disrespectful.

Just my experience,

-- 

  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles(at)earthlink.net
"It is not knowledge, but the act of learning, not possession but the 
act of getting there, which grants the greatest enjoyment. "
	- Gauss, in a Letter to Bolyai, 1808.



From timregan at microsoft.com  Wed Jul  2 17:17:28 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 17:17:28 -0000
Subject: Bill follows Fred and George - Weasley irony
Message-ID: <bdv438+45um@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

My favorite Gred and Forge line ever is:

"Make way for the Heir of Slytherin, seriously evil wizard coming 
through" (CoS, US pb, p. 210)

Well it looks as though Bill is following in their footsteps (or, 
perhaps alarmingly, in Percy's).

>From  TLC I spotted this sign outside a church proclaiming 
that "Harry Potter is the Devil" 
<http://www.wkyt.com/Global/story.asp?S=1342908&nav=4CALGfJk>. But 
who is the minister responsible for the slogan? Bill Wesley. That 
has to be a typo; Bill Weasley has left his job to become a preacher 
in the USA, and is taking every opportunity to unleash Weasley irony 
on his local community. Way to go Bill. 

Cheers,

Dumbledad.




From artsylynda at aol.com  Wed Jul  2 18:50:48 2003
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:50:48 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] on "seeing death" (was Re: main list survival strategy)
Message-ID: <1d4.d28cd0b.2c348388@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/2/2003 5:38:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com writes:

> JKR cleared that one up at the UK interview where she did the OOP reading.  
> According to her, she didn't want to stick them in at the end of GoF and not 
> explain them.  Therefore she decided you had to have time to process the 
> death, think about it a while, and then you see them.  My particular problem is 
> with the use of the words "seen death."  I think it should be "witness death" 
> since Harry didn't actually *see* Cedric die.  Which I seem to be the only 
> one who has a problem with that particular thing.
> 
> Richelle
> 

He apparently saw his mother killed, and relives that when the Dementors come 
around (or did until he was able to conjure up a Patronus), so *logically* he 
should've been able to see the Thestrals all along.  He didn't see Cedric 
die, but saw his dead body an instant after it hit the ground, close enough to 
"seeing" death, I imagine, to count (depending, of course, on who's counting! ;->
)  I think JKR is a brilliant writer, I think she will be this generation's 
Dickens, but I imagine even Dickens had uneven things in his stories (don't ask 
me for examples, it's been too long since I read Dickens for me to remember). 
 This Thestral question, though, is quite illogical compared to most of JKR's 
writing.  JMO.

Lynda 
* * *
". . .the cat's among the pixies now."  Mrs. Figg, OoP


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk  Wed Jul  2 19:27:44 2003
From: pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk (bluesqueak)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 19:27:44 -0000
Subject: OOP: on "seeing death" (was Re: main list survival strategy)
In-Reply-To: <1d4.d28cd0b.2c348388@aol.com>
Message-ID: <bdvbng+2cms@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, artsylynda at a... wrote:
> In a message dated 7/2/2003 5:38:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
> HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com writes:
> 
Richelle wrote:
<Snip>
> > Therefore she decided you had to have time to process the 
> > death, think about it a while, and then you see them.  My 
> > particular problem is with the use of the words "seen death."  I 
> > think it should be "witness death" since Harry didn't actually  
> >*see* Cedric die.  Which I seem to be the only 
> > one who has a problem with that particular thing.

Lynda:
> He apparently saw his mother killed, and relives that when the 
> Dementors come around (or did until he was able to conjure up a 
> Patronus), so *logically* he should've been able to see the  
> Thestrals all along.  He didn't see Cedric die, but saw his dead   
> body an instant after it hit the ground, close enough to 
> "seeing" death, I imagine, to count (depending, of course, on 
who's counting! ;->

> )  I think JKR is a brilliant writer, I think she will be this 
> generation's Dickens, but I imagine even Dickens had uneven things 
> in his stories (don't ask me for examples, it's been too long 
since I read Dickens for me to remember). 

Dickens had loads. There was a British TV version of Oliver Twist a 
couple of years ago where the adaptor announced that there were so 
many loose ends he was going to treat the book as a first draft, and 
change things. Everyone agreed with him. Everyone thought 
his 'second draft' *was* an improvement, as well [grin]

[Note: please don't try this at home unless you happen to be an 
award winning playwright in your own right ;-)]

  This Thestral question, though, is quite illogical compared to 
> most of JKR's writing.  JMO.

I dunno. I never saw a problem with it when I read it. Harry didn't 
see his parents die - he heard James yell something, he saw a green 
flash of light, and he saw his mother fall to the floor. At 18 
months old, that is *all* you would understand.

And we know that he hasn't really processed his parents death; in 
PoA he believes that he's seen his father. In GoF he has to be told, 
yet again, that the 'parents'(and other 'people') he saw in Priori 
Incantatum were shadows, not the real people who'd somehow got stuck 
in Voldemort's wand. 

Harry knows that he is an orphan, but that isn't the same as 
having 'seen' (or witnessed) his parents deaths. He's managed to 
dredge up some memories of that, but I think those memories hurt 
more because of what their deaths mean *for him*. 

Part of the storyline throughout the books is his learning to 
understand that his parents were real people who died. Part of the 
storyline in OOP is his learning that James wasn't some ideal hero, 
but a fallible human being.

Cedric, on the other hand, was a real person to Harry. His death was 
real to him, it hit Harry emotionally. Someone he knew and liked is 
now dead. 

I think that this is probably what JKR was thinking when she planned 
to put the Thestrals after the death of Cedric; that 'to see death' 
is to experience the death of someone you know, and to understand 
that they are never, ever coming back.

Though someday you might go to meet them.

Pip!Squeak





From terryljames at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  2 20:04:00 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:04:00 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] OOP: on "seeing death" (was Re: main list survival
 strategy)
Message-ID: <BAY8-F18fJ8VrRQvXla0002e14e@hotmail.com>


>From: "bluesqueak" <pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk>




>I think that this is probably what JKR was thinking when she planned
>to put the Thestrals after the death of Cedric; that 'to see death'
>is to experience the death of someone you know, and to understand
>that they are never, ever coming back.
>
>Though someday you might go to meet them.
>
>Pip!Squeak
>

Well, there's a happy thought.  :)

One of the best statements describing death that I've ever read was actually 
in a HP fanfic, Draco Sinister (c) (tm) (Rx)  by Cassandra Claire (where are 
those TTT VSDs, Cassie?!).  Here's an excerpt:

"There in the broken house, choking on poisonous dust, Sirius put his face 
down on James shoulder and cried, a crying too awful and too profound to 
produce any tears. He whispered under his breath as he cried, asked James to 
come back, to please come back. If James had lived, he would, however far 
away he might have been, have returned to Sirius had his friend so 
desperately called for him. But the dead are selfish and reluctant 
travelers. They do not come back, no matter how much they are needed, no 
matter how greatly they are missed. No matter if their loss can be survived 
by those who are left behind."

Terry LJ

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail




From lucky_kari at yahoo.ca  Wed Jul  2 21:35:29 2003
From: lucky_kari at yahoo.ca (lucky_kari)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 21:35:29 -0000
Subject: Main List Survival Strategy
In-Reply-To: <bdl3d4+h443@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bdvj71+uptl@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." <cindysphynx at c...>
wrote:
> Mine is even more shameful.  I use the search function to search 
> for "TBAY" before anything else.  Man, you lose the plot of what's 
> going on in the Bay and you are really, er, up a creek without a 
> paddle.  And boy, it used to be really hard to keep up before we had 
> the prefix!

Mine's even more shameful. I've been searching for "Rookwood thong,"
then going off the list. I'll search for TBAYs and specific topics and
people later but I just can't handle it yet. Still I do want to know
where those thongs are getting to. 

Eileen




From judisimecek at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  2 22:53:26 2003
From: judisimecek at yahoo.com (iadoreharry)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 22:53:26 -0000
Subject: book 6?
Message-ID: <bdvnp6+fimv@eGroups.com>

Any one hear when book six will come out?

iadoreharry




From pinguthegreek at pinguthegreek.net  Wed Jul  2 23:09:53 2003
From: pinguthegreek at pinguthegreek.net (Pinguthegreek)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:09:53 +0100
Subject: What to read while waiting for book 6
References: <bdvnp6+fimv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001901c340ef$0ee47340$c95fc487@personal>


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: iadoreharry 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 11:53 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] book 6?


  Any one hear when book six will come out?

  Ok guys, here's a thing we did after we got tired of waiting for this one :- 

  We reccomended other books to read. Why don't we do that now ? 

  I nominate King Of Shadows by Susan Cooper. About a boy who gets trasproted back in time to the original Globe in Shakespeare's time. 

  Vivid, passionate and gripping. 

  Just don't put it down !

  Michelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  3 01:14:09 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 21:14:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Happy Birthday, Amanda!
Message-ID: <20030703011409.13973.qmail@web41106.mail.yahoo.com>

*dashes into the party room and starts decorating with
Snape quotes and Alan Rickman photos*

Yes, today's birthday honouree is none other than our
very own premiere Snapeologist, Amanda!

Birthday owls can be sent care of this list or
directly to: editor at texas.net

I hope the day was fun, magical and filled with Snape
thoughts.

Happy Birthday, Amanda!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf (who knew better than to try
and get Mr. Rickman here in person, as Mary Ann found
out on my birthday <vbg>)

=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From editor at texas.net  Thu Jul  3 02:05:18 2003
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Geist)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 21:05:18 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Birthday, Amanda!
References: <20030703011409.13973.qmail@web41106.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001f01c34107$8e5ad5c0$1e04a6d8@texas.net>

Sheryll
> *dashes into the party room and starts decorating with
> Snape quotes and Alan Rickman photos*
> Yes, today's birthday honouree is none other than our
> very own premiere Snapeologist, Amanda!
> I hope the day was fun, magical and filled with Snape
> thoughts.
>
> Happy Birthday, Amanda!
>
> Sheryll the Birthday Elf (who knew better than to try
> and get Mr. Rickman here in person, as Mary Ann found
> out on my birthday <vbg>)

Amanda smiled and thanked Sheryll, assuring her that the lack of Mr. Rickman
didn't matter in the slightest. Sheryll, relieved, bowed out of the room.

Amanda waited until she was sure she was alone, then pulled a small package
marked "Happy Birthday, Love J.S." from beneath the table drapes. She opened
it carefully, smiling in anticipation, and then sat back with a satisfied
grin. She tipped the box onto its side.

A tiny figure in black robes walked out of the box, crossed its arms, and
sneered up at her, tossing its greasy black hair out of its eyes. Amanda
leaned closer; yes, the resemblance was uncanny. She watched happily as the
little Snape began to stir and gesture over an abandoned punch glass. A
pity, she thought, that they didn't come equipped with sound, but then, how
could they get that voice into such a small package?

I'll have to get one of these for Sheryll, she thought. Must ask Jo where
she found it, and how many Galleons it was. How cool.

Amanda picked the little figure up, tucked him in her pocket, and, smiling
happily, headed for home.

~Amanda




From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  3 03:38:32 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:38:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aid needed on July 26 to finish Braille ed. of OotP in Boston
Message-ID: <20030703033832.73228.qmail@web21110.mail.yahoo.com>

"The world is moved not only by 
the mighty shoves of the heroes, 
but also by the aggregate of the 
tiny pushes of each honest worker."
-- Helen Keller

     *     *     *

Y'know, we hear all too often about 
efforts to take the HP books *out* 
of communities.  I am delighted to 
bring to your attention a project 
aimed at making OotP accessible to 
the community of Braille readers.

Below you will find details on how 
you can help the National Braille 
Press make their edition of OotP.  If 
you cannot volunteer your time, please 
consider supporting the efforts of the 
NBP (http://www.braille.com) or People 
Making a Difference through Community 
Service (http://www.pmd.org) by 
visiting their websites and finding 
how you can make charitable donations 
to these non-profits.

Petra
a
n  :)

     *     *     *

ATTENTION HARRY POTTER FANS AND 
LITERACY SUPPORTERS
SAT 7/26 PMD VOLUNTEER OPPORTUNITY

WHAT
Collate, stitch, and box the braille 
Version of HARRY POTTER AND THE ORDER 
OF THE PHOENIX, the fifth book in 
J.K. Rowling's series

WHEN
Saturday, July 26, 10 AM to 3 PM

WHERE
National Braille Press, Boston
(two blocks behind Symphony Hall)

WHY
The guiding purposes of the National
Braille Press (www.braille.com) are
to promote the literacy of blind
children through braille and to enable
blind people to better participate in
work, family, and civic affairs through
information. NBP makes available braille
publications to blind people for the
same prices that sighted people pay
for print publications. NBP needs
help collating, checking, stitching,
and boxing 500 copies so that blind readers
will purchase the newest Harry Potter 
book almost as quickly as sighted
readers will purchase the print version.
Note: 13 braille volumes make up
one complete copy of this book, which is
870 print pages.

These activities require repetitive hand
and arm motions while standing, so are
not recommended for people with repetitive
stress injuries or carpal tunnel syndrome
and/or who lack sufficient stamina to
work on their feet.

HOW
Get involved! 30 volunteers are needed for
the entire project time span, 10 AM to 3 PM.
To participate, send e-mail to lori AT pmd.org
or call 617-282-7177 before 7/17 and give 
ALL THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION:

1. Your complete name
2. Your complete USPS mailing address
3. Your evening and daytime phone#s
4. Your email, cell#, and fax# if you have them
5. Specify whether you would like parking.
Parking is extremely limited, just two spaces.
Parking will only be reserved for the first 
two people who sign up to participate and
request parking. This project site is easily
accessible by the MBTA's Green and Orange subway
lines and the #1 and CT1 bus lines.

Incomplete submissions cannot be honored.
After you sign-up, PMD will send/email
specific information the week before the
project, including directions to the
project site by public transit (and car for
the first two people who receive confirmation
of reserved parking spaces), how to prepare,
what to expect, and a waiver form.

WHO
People Making a Difference through
Community Service (PMD) is a nonprofit
organization that promotes responsible
volunteerism by involving people in 
meaningful, hands-on work that meets 
local needs and by assisting companies
in building successful volunteer programs
that also:
* Produce appreciable results while
conserving recipients' limited resources,
* Educate volunteers about broader issues,
* Bring people together to make a 
difference.

People Making a Difference 
through Community Service (PMD)
P.O. Box 120189, Boston, MA 02112-0189
617-282-7177
http://www.pmd.org
lori AT pmd.org

[please forward]

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com



From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Thu Jul  3 04:02:56 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 04:02:56 -0000
Subject: Reminder - Nimbus - 2003 
Message-ID: <1057204976.64.28990.m10@yahoogroups.com>


We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Nimbus - 2003 

Date: Thursday, July 17, 2003 
Time: All Day

Nimbus - 2003, the first international Harry Potter event,
begins at the Swan Hotel in Orlando, Florida (more info at
http://www.hp2003.org) 

 





From jo.sturgess at btopenworld.com  Thu Jul  3 08:02:20 2003
From: jo.sturgess at btopenworld.com (mooseming)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 08:02:20 -0000
Subject: Request to honourable masters (Humble)
Message-ID: <be0nuc+7ive@eGroups.com>

Hi

all you oldtimers and survival-of-main-list strategists (yup you've
been rumbled).

On the main list one of your number introduced himself at the bottom
of his post, I really appreciated this!

see J Harley-Winfrey (post no  66927)

I know netiquette requests no 'hi I'm new' type posts but it would
really be good to hear from the experienced hands by way of
interests/obsessions.

When you next post on the main list how about pointing us newbies in
the direction of post threads you have loved/contributed to in an
impressive manner?

It might just stop the rehashing of the already well hashed by wiser
and more experienced hashers (sorry intelligent and perceptive
commentators).

Thanks for your patience towards the thousands(?) of us party
gatecrashers!

Jo






From miss_megan at bigpond.com  Thu Jul  3 10:39:30 2003
From: miss_megan at bigpond.com (storm)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:39:30 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Some people just don't get it . . . (warning: mild language)
In-Reply-To: <1056782072.1498.87023.m1@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <CGEKJJCJGOLNJLCPJCJJCEEPCFAA.miss_megan@bigpond.com>

Boggles,

You've drawn me out of a 2 + year long lurkership but I have no idea what
you are talking about. What is a 'future Mrs Wadie'? and a 'Jack Chick'?

fascinating!

storm, in sydney with the dogs, the cats and the loris. No one has died this
week YEAH!

snipped from Boggles ....

>"We are through playing Harry Potter pussy with people like you! This is
>your future Mrs. Waldie! We think you agree it's not very bright."

Enclosed with the note was a Jack Chick tract with a depiction of the
Grim Reaper on the cover and "Get out of Texas!  The Church" written
on the back.  We're not sure if this was an actual death threat or
not, but she reported it to the police. ..."


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.495 / Virus Database: 294 - Release Date: 30/06/2003




From pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk  Thu Jul  3 10:34:53 2003
From: pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk (bluesqueak)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 10:34:53 -0000
Subject: ADMIN: Chapter Discussions for Order of the Phoenix
Message-ID: <be10sd+tlog@eGroups.com>

By popular demand ...

Greetings from Hexquarters!

There's so much to discuss about OoP that it's difficult to know 
where to start, isn't it?

Well, in order to help out with this dilemma the Admin Team has
decided to introduce Chapter discussions. These will be running 
every two weeks from July 7th 2003 until December 2004.

What's a Chapter discussion, you ask? Well if you go to our Files 
section in the Main List, open Discussion Summaries, and then click 
on GoFChapters.htm, you'll find a series of links to the Chapter 
discussions that were held for Goblet of Fire. There is also a table 
showing which of the OOP chapters already have volunteers.

The new Order of the Phoenix discussions will, surprisingly, go in 
chronological order, and your help is needed.  We are looking for 
volunteers to help the Admin team lead and facilitate these chapter 
discussions.  If you are interested please email us at 
HPforGrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com

If the Administration Team is flooded with an over-plentitude, nay, 
a plethora  of eager volunteers, we will select the Chapter 
Discussion winners by the canonical method of  closing our eyes and 
jabbing our wands at the list, just like Dean Thomas in Chamber of 
Secrets ;-)

O.W.L. T.R.E.A.T.

Our Wizarding Leaders: The Really Ecstatic Admin Team





From s_ings at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  3 12:24:58 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:24:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Happy Birthday, Pip and Debbie!
Message-ID: <20030703122458.51439.qmail@web41101.mail.yahoo.com>

*surveys the many tables of goodies and turns her
attention to the streamers and fairy lights still to
be hung*

Hey, I need some help over here! Don't just stand
there, grab a streamer and get to work.

Today's birthday honourees are Pip and Debbie. I might
need some help to drag them away from their main list
Admin duties. Birthday owls can be sent care of this
list or directly to: pipdowns at etchells0@demon.co.uk
and elfundeb at comcast.net

I hope you both have days filled with fun and magic
and that someone else does all the work for you today.
:-D

Happy Birthday, Pip!
Happy Birthday, Debbie!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf!

=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From pinguthegreek at pinguthegreek.net  Thu Jul  3 12:29:17 2003
From: pinguthegreek at pinguthegreek.net (Pinguthegreek)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:29:17 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Birthday, Pip and Debbie!
References: <20030703122458.51439.qmail@web41101.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001901c3415e$bb882960$c95fc487@personal>


Today's birthday honourees are Pip and Debbie. I might
need some help to drag them away from their main list
Admin duties. Birthday owls can be sent care of this
list or directly to: pipdowns at etchells0@demon.co.uk
and elfundeb at comcast.net

I have to say they deserve a massive party for all the hard work they do !

Many joyous wishes  and thanks to you both !

Michelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From editor at texas.net  Thu Jul  3 14:17:05 2003
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 14:17:05 -0000
Subject: Request to honourable masters (Humble)
In-Reply-To: <be0nuc+7ive@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <be1dt1+h0h6@eGroups.com>

How to Make Someone Feel Oooold, 101. Good job.

One of the best ways to poke around old threads would be to play in 
the FAQs. Not only are they interesting in and of themselves, if you 
click on the embedded and/or linked post numbers, often the 
referenced posts have corollary references to then-ongoing threads:

http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/faq/

(psst....the Snape one is the best)

Or just pick a topic and use the lame Yahoo search engine--take it 
back a year or so, and see what you see.

~Elderly!Amanda

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "mooseming" 
<jo.sturgess at b...> wrote:
> Hi
> 
> all you oldtimers and survival-of-main-list strategists (yup you've
> been rumbled).
> 
> On the main list one of your number introduced himself at the bottom
> of his post, I really appreciated this!
> 
> see J Harley-Winfrey (post no  66927)
> 
> I know netiquette requests no 'hi I'm new' type posts but it would
> really be good to hear from the experienced hands by way of
> interests/obsessions.
> 
> When you next post on the main list how about pointing us newbies in
> the direction of post threads you have loved/contributed to in an
> impressive manner?
> 
> It might just stop the rehashing of the already well hashed by wiser
> and more experienced hashers (sorry intelligent and perceptive
> commentators).
> 
> Thanks for your patience towards the thousands(?) of us party
> gatecrashers!
> 
> Jo




From artsylynda at aol.com  Thu Jul  3 14:29:51 2003
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:29:51 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] OoP: On "seeing death"
Message-ID: <105.321a15df.2c3597df@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/3/2003 5:40:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com writes:

> One of the best statements describing death that I've ever read was 
> actually 
> in a HP fanfic, Draco Sinister (c) (tm) (Rx)  by Cassandra Claire (where are 
> 
> those TTT VSDs, Cassie?!).  Here's an excerpt:
> 
> "There in the broken house, choking on poisonous dust, Sirius put his face 
> down on James? shoulder and cried, a crying too awful and too profound to 
> produce any tears. He whispered under his breath as he cried, asked James to 
> 
> come back, to please come back. If James had lived, he would, however far 
> away he might have been, have returned to Sirius had his friend so 
> desperately called for him. But the dead are selfish and reluctant 
> travelers. They do not come back, no matter how much they are needed, no 
> matter how greatly they are missed. No matter if their loss can be survived 
> by those who are left behind."
> 

Wow, this is beautifully written!  Where can I read the fic?  (Never thought 
I'd want to read a Draco fic -- I'm a staunch Harry fan -- but this writing 
sings and I want to read more of it!)  THanks!

Lynda 
* * *
". . .the cat's among the pixies now."  Mrs. Figg, OoP


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From terryljames at hotmail.com  Thu Jul  3 14:53:03 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:53:03 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] OoP: On "seeing death"
Message-ID: <BAY8-F78Gj0gsmDzYbB0000343f@hotmail.com>




>From: artsylynda at aol.com

>>Wow, this is beautifully written!  Where can I read the fic?  (Never 
>>thought
>I'd want to read a Draco fic -- I'm a staunch Harry fan -- but this writing
>sings and I want to read more of it!)  THanks!
>
>Lynda
>* * *

I'm sure there's a technical way to send the link...but I'm not good at 
computer stuff.  :)  Sorry.

But here's how to find it: go to www.fictionalley.com, click on "fanfics by 
author", scroll down to "Cassandra Claire".

Tip, though:  Draco Sinister is part two of a three-part series.  I don't 
think Part III, Draco Veritas, is finished yet, so I have heroically 
restrained myself from starting it, as I can't stand unfinished stuff.  But 
Parts I and II are complete.  Part I is Draco Dormiens, and better read it 
first so you'll know what's going on.

I'm the same way--don't like canon Draco, would never bother to read about 
him.  This Draco is decidedly uncanonical--at least so far, I guess JKR's 
got two books to redeem him, and I don't mean "redeem" as in make him good, 
I mean "redeem" as in make him a character, good or evil, that I actually 
get interested in--(deep breath) but this Draco is much more interesting to 
read, and the relationship between all the characters is wonderfully 
written.

When you get through, let me know if you liked it!  (Offlist, of course)

Terry LJ

_________________________________________________________________
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From heidit at netbox.com  Thu Jul  3 14:57:58 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:57:58 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] OoP: On "seeing death"
In-Reply-To: <BAY8-F78Gj0gsmDzYbB0000343f@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY8-F78Gj0gsmDzYbB0000343f@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <1057244283.377E9DCB@s5.dngr.org>

It's actually quicker to go to http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks and 
scroll down to her name. Will save you a few clicks  that way.
On Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:53AM -0500, Terry James wrote:
> Real-To:  "Terry James" <terryljames at hotmail.com>
>
>
>
>
>> From: artsylynda at aol.com
>
>>> Wow, this is beautifully written!  Where can I read the fic?  (Never
>>> thought
>> I'd want to read a Draco fic -- I'm a staunch Harry fan -- but this 
>> writing
>> sings and I want to read more of it!)  THanks!
>>
>> Lynda
>> * * *
>
> I'm sure there's a technical way to send the link...but I'm not good at
> computer stuff.  :)  Sorry.
>
> But here's how to find it: go to www.fictionalley.com, click on 
> "fanfics by
> author", scroll down to "Cassandra Claire".
>
> Tip, though:  Draco Sinister is part two of a three-part series.  I 
> don't
> think Part III, Draco Veritas, is finished yet, so I have heroically
> restrained myself from starting it, as I can't stand unfinished stuff.  
> But
> Parts I and II are complete.  Part I is Draco Dormiens, and better read 
> it
> first so you'll know what's going on.
>
> I'm the same way--don't like canon Draco, would never bother to read 
> about
> him.  This Draco is decidedly uncanonical--at least so far, I guess 
> JKR's
> got two books to redeem him, and I don't mean "redeem" as in make him 
> good,
> I mean "redeem" as in make him a character, good or evil, that I 
> actually
> get interested in--(deep breath) but this Draco is much more 
> interesting to
> read, and the relationship between all the characters is wonderfully
> written.
>
> When you get through, let me know if you liked it!  (Offlist, of 
> course)
>
> Terry LJ
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin 
> Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary 
> material from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to 
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> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
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From terryljames at hotmail.com  Thu Jul  3 15:13:24 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 10:13:24 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Need FanFic Help - Deep South
Message-ID: <BAY8-F104t3cew8k69R0002520c@hotmail.com>


You can't get much more Deep South than where I'm at, unless you want to go 
swimming in the Gulf!  However, I come from a poor sharecropping family, so 
my "plantation" knowledge is kinda rusty.  Here's what I think, though, for 
what it's worth.  Put it together with whatever other responses you've 
gotten and use what you like.

Terry LJ

>From: "Steve" <bboy_mn at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
>To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Need FanFic Help - Deep South
>Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 00:53:25 -0000
>
>This is way off topic, but I was wondering if we have someone from the
>deep south (USA) or familiar with the deep south.
>
>SETUP-
>
>Through a long series of events, Dobby and Harry are meeting with a
>southern plantation owner (a wizard). Being from a very old and rich
>southern family, this plantation has had both men-slave and
>elf-slaves. Currently, they only have house and farm elves, and I
>think it goes without saying that none of them are free elves.
>
>As a side note, you can imagine how uncomfortable, to put it gently,
>this southern plantation owner is having a house-elf enter through the
>front door and sit for tea (actually lemonade) with him in his living
>room. But if things work out, he stands to make a great deal of money
>entering into a business arrangement with Harry, so as much as it
>irritates him, he's willing to endure it.
>
>QUESTION #1-
>After offerring Harry refreshment, they decide on lemonade; Harry
>likes lemons. So when the house-elf bring the tray, what else should
>be on it?




Authentic Deep South drink would be iced tea.  The elf would bring a silver 
tray with a pitcher and glasses with ice already in them, and pour for them. 
  A saucer of lemons would be
on the side; Harry could have several, since he likes them.  Also on the 
tray would probably
be cloth napkins (NEVER paper) but no sugar; real southern iced tea has so 
much sugar in it already that you could pour it on pancakes if you ran out 
of syrup.

Depending on how old Harry is, he could instead have a mint julep. :)

>Note: this is an unexpected meeting; Dobby and Harry just drop by.
>It's not a planned or scheduled meeting, so the host hasn't had time
>to prepare.
>
>Lemonade and biscuits (either cookies or actual American biscuits)?
>Pastry?
>?
>I'm looking for an additional treat, probably finger food, that would
>reflect southern cooking. This meeting takes place mid-afternoon.
>
>I guess I can alway make it jelly dognuts or cookies or something, but
>I would like it to reflect the south. Sweet Potato pie would be good,
>but it's not really finger food. So a southern pastry, pie, cake,
>roll, other sweet treat...
>
>Any thoughts?



Pecan pie would be authentic.  Also fruit-filled turnovers: apple or pear 
mostly; you take a circle
of pastry, fill it full of fruit filling (like in a pie), but double it over 
and press down the edges with a fork so
that you get a nice fruit-filled pastry in a half-moon shape with cute 
little marks on the edge.  I don't know if these are southern-only foods, 
but they definitely are popular here.  You'd need silverware for the pie, 
but not for the turnovers.


>
>Final note: I really do have a believable way to get Harry and Dobby
>AND Ron on a southern plantation; as impossible as that might seem.
>
>This is a very minor plot point, but it's driving me nuts, so I need
>to resolve it.
>
>QUESTION #2-
>
>I need some common (stereotypical) slave names (for the elves), both
>male and female, or any suggestion where I might be able to look these
>up. So far, all I've come up with is Eliza and Toby.
>
>


Note that if the owner would probably call the elves "elf", like Crouch, 
much
like real slave-owners called their slaves "boy" and "girl", no matter their 
ages.
He probably can't be bothered to learn their names, and thinks "they all 
look alike anyway."

>Thank a bunch for any suggestions you might have.
>
>bboy_mn
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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From linlou43 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  3 15:42:17 2003
From: linlou43 at yahoo.com (linlou43)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 15:42:17 -0000
Subject: British School System
Message-ID: <be1isp+br1m@eGroups.com>



 Hi all!

   I'm a regular poster on the main board and don't post on OT often 
but as an American reader I have a couple of questions, inspired by 
the main list thread on Snape as a teacher, for any British list 
members they may care to answer.


    First, is it the normal practice in a British school to keep the 
same instructor for a given subject until you have progressed through 
the first testing level? My personal public school experience is of a 
single teacher, per year(new one each year), teaching all subjects 
through my first five years of schooling and then traveling to 
different classes starting in the sixth grade. Even once I started 
having seperate teachers per subject, however, the teacher usually
(there were exceptions) changed each year, as the subject matter 
progressed.


   Secondly, on a totaly seperate issue that has nothing at all to do 
with HP...

   I live in the state of Massachusetts and as of the 2002/2003 
school year the passing of a standardized test is a graduation 
requirement. I have also heard of this being instituted in other 
parts of the country. I am wondering if anyone in Britain has heard 
about this developement in American public education and if anyone 
has any thoughts on how it might be compared to the testing system 
employed there.

 -thanks to anyone who can help, linlou  




From pinguthegreek at pinguthegreek.net  Thu Jul  3 15:52:46 2003
From: pinguthegreek at pinguthegreek.net (Pinguthegreek)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:52:46 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] British School System
References: <be1isp+br1m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <002a01c3417b$28a17a80$c95fc487@personal>


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: linlou43 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 4:42 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] British School System




  Hi all!

      First, is it the normal practice in a British school to keep the 
  same instructor for a given subject until you have progressed through 
  the first testing level? 


  In a smaller school, very much so. 
  Remember, classes are combined, so that two houses are in the same lesson. So, seeing as it seems like each subject only has one session of contact time, they would only have 14 or so classes a week to teach. This is feasible. 

     I live in the state of Massachusetts and as of the 2002/2003 
  school year the passing of a standardized test is a graduation 
  requirement. I have also heard of this being instituted in other 
  parts of the country. I am wondering if anyone in Britain has heard 
  about this developement in American public education and if anyone 
  has any thoughts on how it might be compared to the testing system 
  employed there.

  Depends how it will work. Our system work on the basis that you do cousework and exams every year from 16 to 18 - three years. Each set of exams counts as a separate layer of qualification. You can leave school at 16,17 or 18, depending how much study you want to do or are capapble of. Up until 16, you have to study a broad range of subjects with a core curriculum depending on where you live. But after 16, you take maybe five or six subjects and then maybe four at the most in your final year. 

  If you could explain how the US system is changing, then we could start comparing....

  Michelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From madelynx at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  3 16:00:29 2003
From: madelynx at yahoo.com (Madelyne X)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:00:29 -0000
Subject: New Snape/OFC illustration up at Dark Potions
Message-ID: <be1jut+lad6@eGroups.com>

Uploaded a new illustration for the fic Love's Labours; Pardise Lost 
collection -- a Snape/OFC fic for those who don't know it.  If you 
like Snape het fics and haven't read -- you simply must read it!

This is beginning scene where Celia is standing out by the lamplit 
street corner on a foggy night waiting for SOME guy ANY would do to 
pay the rent ..and along comes a greasy git shrouded in a dark 
cloak -- a much preferable choice to that of a cane wielding schizo.

http://www.firefancies.com/darkpotions/main.htm

Constructive tactful critisism is nice. :)
~M
The Keeper of His Buttons





From terryljames at hotmail.com  Thu Jul  3 16:16:40 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:16:40 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Need FanFic Help - Deep South
Message-ID: <BAY8-F111lhgnFZS4HI0000db66@hotmail.com>

Darn!  Sorry, that should have gone off-list.

Terry LJ (off to iron her hands)


>From: "Terry James" <terryljames at hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
>To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Need FanFic Help - Deep South
>Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 10:13:24 -0500
>
>
>You can't get much more Deep South than where I'm at, unless you want to go
>swimming in the Gulf!  However, I come from a poor sharecropping family, so
>my "plantation" knowledge is kinda rusty.  Here's what I think, though, for
>what it's worth.  Put it together with whatever other responses you've
>gotten and use what you like.
>
>Terry LJ

_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail




From psychic_serpent at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  3 16:26:22 2003
From: psychic_serpent at yahoo.com (psychic_serpent)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:26:22 -0000
Subject: British School System
In-Reply-To: <002a01c3417b$28a17a80$c95fc487@personal>
Message-ID: <be1lfe+u9vj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Pinguthegreek" 
<pinguthegreek at p...> wrote:
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: linlou43 
>   To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 4:42 PM
>   Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] British School System
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Hi all!
> 
>       First, is it the normal practice in a British school to keep 
the 
>   same instructor for a given subject until you have progressed 
through 
>   the first testing level? 
> 
> 
>   In a smaller school, very much so. 
>   Remember, classes are combined, so that two houses are in the 
> same lesson. So, seeing as it seems like each subject only has one 
> session of contact time, they would only have 14 or so classes a 
> week to teach. This is feasible. 
 
Right.  I think that the size of the school has a significant amount 
to do with it.  Even in small American schools, this is done.  When 
I was in seventh grade I went to a private school that was K-12, 
with a lower school and an upper school (7-12).  In the upper school 
there was one English teacher (who was also the headmistress), one 
Math/Latin teacher (she taught both) one Religion/Handbells teacher 
(again, both) one Science teacher, one History teacher, one Chorus 
teacher and one Gym teacher for the girls and one for the boys.  
There were eleven kids in the seventh grade.  That year there were 
only FOUR seniors.  (I thought the yearbook looked like a joke.)  It 
was a tiny school.  

If most years in each Hogwarts house have 8-10 students, that's only 
about 32-40 per year.  As long as the students have combined 
Astronomy classes (because she can only teach at night, not all day) 
plus combined Potions, Herbology and CoMC (and for all we know, they 
also have combined Arithmancy, Runes and Muggle Studies), there's no 
reason you couldn't have one teacher per subject.  

It's also strongly implied that some students won't be taking 
courses like Potions after fifth year, if they don't qualify for the 
NEWT-level classes.  In fact, you have to wonder whether some of the 
students will disappear entirely after fifth year (like Seamus and 
Dean, not to mention Crabbe and Goyle), should they decide not to 
pursue their NEWTs.  I've always thought that it was odd that Stan 
Shunpike, who was supposed to be eighteen or nineteen when he 
encountered Harry at the age of thirteen, shouldn't recognize Harry 
from attending school with him.  (If he was six years older than 
Harry, he would have been a seventh-year at Hogwarts when Harry was 
in first year.)  However, if Stan left school after his OWLs and 
wasn't at Hogwarts when Harry started, that would explain a thing or 
two.

--Barb

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychic_Serpent
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb






From timregan at microsoft.com  Thu Jul  3 18:05:33 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:05:33 -0000
Subject: Clay Shirky on social software 
Message-ID: <be1r9d+lme5@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

I know membership of a large mailing list does not imply interest in 
mailing lists and other social software, but some of you may be.

I've just read an interesting article 
<http://shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html> on social software by 
Clay Shirky, one of the popular O'Reilly speakers / writers.

He draws some conclusions for the design of social software (though 
the first three are obvious):
1) design for handles [his term for identities] the user can invest 
in
2) design a way for there to be members in good standing
3) you need barriers to participation
4) you have to find a way to spare the group from scale; scale alone 
kills conversations

But on route he makes some fun contentious statements, e.g.
"eBay has done us all an enormous disservice"
"This is one of the things that killed Usenet"
"Almost all the work being done on reputation systems today is 
either trivial or useless or both"
"community leads to content, which leads to commerce -- never worked"
"when they're trading music [
] they're FedExing one another 180-gig 
hard-drives"
"nothing causes a group to galvanize like an external enemy"

And this is the bit that I thought might be music-to-the-ears for 
anyone frightened away from the main list at present:
"mailing lists are self-moderating with scale, because as the signal 
to noise ratio gets worse, people start to drop off, until it gets 
better, so people join, and so it gets worse. You get these sort of 
oscillating patterns. But it's self-correcting."

Cheers,

Dumbledad.





From timregan at microsoft.com  Thu Jul  3 18:18:18 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:18:18 -0000
Subject: British School System
In-Reply-To: <be1lfe+u9vj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <be1s1a+bvnv@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

Mine was a fairly large comprehensive shool in the UK (= public high 
school if you are American). We had different tachers for each 
subject each year, though we kept the same form teacher.

There is a standardized cirriculum in the UK now, called inventively 
The National Cirriculum, but  don't think it applies to private 
schools, so Hogwarts would be exempt.

Cheers,

Dubledad.








From bettedavisgreen at aol.com  Thu Jul  3 18:21:28 2003
From: bettedavisgreen at aol.com (bettedavisgreen at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:21:28 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Need FanFic Help - Deep South & Recipes
Message-ID: <c5.35e107f1.2c35ce28@aol.com>

Dans un e-mail dat? du 03/07/2003 18:18:34 Paris, Madrid (heure d'?t?), 
terryljames at hotmail.com a ?crit :

> Darn!  Sorry, that should have gone off-list.
> 
> Terry LJ (off to iron her hands)
> 
> 
> >From: "Terry James" <terryljames at hotmail.com>
> >Reply-To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
> >To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Need FanFic Help - Deep South
> >Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 10:13:24 -0500
> >
> >
> >You can't get much more Deep South than where I'm at, unless you want to go
> >swimming in the Gulf!  However, I come from a poor sharecropping family, so
> >my "plantation" knowledge is kinda rusty.  Here's what I think, though, for
> >what it's worth.  Put it together with whatever other responses you've
> >gotten and use what you like.
> >
> >Terry LJ
> 

Certainly not! Just loved it! Do you have recipes on that?

Actually, there was a butterbeer recipe here a couple of days ago, and I 
really don't feel like trying it, but how do you think they make that pumpkin 
juice? And Steve, here's a thought, how about comparing the lemonade with their 
usual stuff? What do you think might refresh them most?

Cristina (who actually prefers melon juice...)



********

Bette Davis Green Eyes are watching you!!!

<A HREF="http://pageperso.aol.fr/bettedavisgreen/mapage/divers.html">http://pageperso.aol.fr/bettedavisgreen/mapage/divers.html</A>

HPGCv1 a31 e++ x+ -- z+++ A27 Rhp HPa S+++ Mo HaP++ HG++ RW++ AD++ RH+++ VK& 
NhN& SB& DM--- O++ F sfD





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From terryljames at hotmail.com  Thu Jul  3 18:30:14 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 13:30:14 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: British School System
Message-ID: <BAY8-F99wfCrbreLDwd00031889@hotmail.com>




>From: "psychic_serpent" <psychic_serpent at yahoo.com>
>
>If most years in each Hogwarts house have 8-10 students, that's only
>about 32-40 per year.  --Barb
>

I've never really understood this assumption.  I always assumed that, for 
instance, there are several first-year Gryffindor Herbology classes, not 
just the one that we happen to see with Harry. Example:  If there are ten 
Gryffindor students in Harry's classes, and five first-year Herbology 
classes with Gryffs in them, then that would be fifty first-year Gryffs.  We 
don't hear about the other classes because Harry doesn't go to them, and 
it's mostly filtered through his POV.  We don't hear the other kids being 
Sorted because we only see what Harry was paying attention to.  We don't see 
the other first-year boys' bedrooms because Harry doesn't sleep there, 
doesn't go to classes with those boys, and never really has any interaction 
with them.

The (American? do they do this in England?) system of changing classes in 
middle and high school means that one teacher might teach six different sets 
of tenth-grade math, but it's all tenth-grade students.  Usually the 
students are well mixed--you go to seven classes a day, and they are each 
made up of different students--but in fifth grade where I went, to get us 
used to changing classes, they marched the whole class from one teacher to 
the next, but there were five different classes involved.  This seems to be 
what happens at Hogwarts--one group stays together all the time (except for 
the optional courses), but there is more than one group involved, and we 
just don't see the others.

Is there something in canon which contradicts this?

Terry LJ

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail




From boggles at earthlink.net  Thu Jul  3 19:19:12 2003
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:19:12 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Need FanFic Help - Deep South
In-Reply-To: <BAY8-F104t3cew8k69R0002520c@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY8-F104t3cew8k69R0002520c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <p05200f00bb2a30ae78c2@[192.168.1.100]>

At 10:13 AM -0500 7/3/03, Terry James wrote:
>   A saucer of lemons would be
>on the side; Harry could have several, since he likes them.

If the tray has iced tea and lemon on the side, it will also have a 
small glass with sprigs of mint in it.


>Also on the
>tray would probably
>be cloth napkins (NEVER paper) but no sugar; real southern iced tea has so
>much sugar in it already that you could pour it on pancakes if you ran out
>of syrup.

Class break: a plantation owner's iced tea will probably *not* 
already be sweetened.  This is one of the fast ways of telling New 
Money from Old Blood in the South.  There will be a china sugar bowl 
on the tray with a silver sugar spoon in it, and the sugar spoon will 
match the iced tea spoons.  (If the tea were already sweetened, you 
wouldn't get to use your great-grandmother's sugar spoon.)


>Note that if the owner would probably call the elves "elf", like Crouch,
>much
>like real slave-owners called their slaves "boy" and "girl", no matter their
>ages.
>He probably can't be bothered to learn their names, and thinks "they all
>look alike anyway."

This would likely be true for the field hands, but probably not for 
the house-servants.  Those were usually addressed by first name.
-- 

  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles(at)earthlink.net
"It is not knowledge, but the act of learning, not possession but the 
act of getting there, which grants the greatest enjoyment. "
	- Gauss, in a Letter to Bolyai, 1808.



From boggles at earthlink.net  Thu Jul  3 19:39:04 2003
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:39:04 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] British School System
In-Reply-To: <be1isp+br1m@eGroups.com>
References: <be1isp+br1m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <p05200f01bb2a360dbb0b@[192.168.1.100]>

At 3:42 PM +0000 7/3/03, linlou43 wrote:
>
>    I live in the state of Massachusetts and as of the 2002/2003
>school year the passing of a standardized test is a graduation
>requirement. I have also heard of this being instituted in other
>parts of the country.

I teach in Texas, where we've had an exit-level test for forever and 
we just changed the format (so it's now much harder).

Different states do exit testing differently, but in most of the 
systems in the US, the exit test is merely *one* of the things you 
have to do to get a diploma (although if you *don't* pass it, you 
don't get one).  In the British system, the tests are more 
specifically subject-area tests, and they're the goal in and of 
themselves.

-- 

  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles(at)earthlink.net
"It is not knowledge, but the act of learning, not possession but the 
act of getting there, which grants the greatest enjoyment. "
	- Gauss, in a Letter to Bolyai, 1808.



From terryljames at hotmail.com  Thu Jul  3 19:54:29 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 14:54:29 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Need FanFic Help - Deep South
Message-ID: <BAY8-F92wdEEHN2xYlV0001bbe1@hotmail.com>


>
> >Also on the
> >tray would probably
> >be cloth napkins (NEVER paper) but no sugar; real southern iced tea has 
>so
> >much sugar in it already that you could pour it on pancakes if you ran 
>out
> >of syrup.
>
>Class break: a plantation owner's iced tea will probably *not*
>already be sweetened.  This is one of the fast ways of telling New
>Money from Old Blood in the South.  There will be a china sugar bowl
>on the tray with a silver sugar spoon in it, and the sugar spoon will
>match the iced tea spoons.  (If the tea were already sweetened, you
>wouldn't get to use your great-grandmother's sugar spoon.)

I guess this is where "class" good taste clashes with "real" good taste, as 
in tasting good.  If you put sugar in iced tea, it won't melt.  It just 
swirls around and dumps on the bottom.  If you put the sugar in while it's 
hot, as you're making it, then let it sit in the refrigerator overnight, it 
tastes WAY better.

But you have a good point about the silverware.  A person as described 
wouldn't really care how his iced tea tasted, as long as it was presented 
correctly.

Terry LJ (who drinks extremely sweet iced tea and uses plasticware--where 
does this put me on the social scale?)

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
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From boggles at earthlink.net  Thu Jul  3 20:10:30 2003
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:10:30 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Need FanFic Help - Deep South
In-Reply-To: <BAY8-F92wdEEHN2xYlV0001bbe1@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY8-F92wdEEHN2xYlV0001bbe1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <p05200f02bb2a3bd21544@[192.168.1.100]>

At 2:54 PM -0500 7/3/03, Terry James wrote:
>
>I guess this is where "class" good taste clashes with "real" good taste, as
>in tasting good.  If you put sugar in iced tea, it won't melt.  It just
>swirls around and dumps on the bottom.  If you put the sugar in while it's
>hot, as you're making it, then let it sit in the refrigerator overnight, it
>tastes WAY better.

Speaking as someone whose paternal grandmother did it without sugar 
and whose mother did it with, there are good points and bad points, 
tastewise, about both methods.  Sweet tea can be awfully syrupy, 
especially if the person who brewed it had a heavy hand - I often had 
to add lots of ice and wait for it to melt halfway before drinking 
it.  On the other hand, unsweet tea never does get quite as sweet, 
although vigorous use of an iced tea spoon does eventually get most 
of it to dissolve (especially if you get superfine sugar instead of 
the usual plain granulated - in the Bad Old Days, you'd have someone 
pound the sugar in a mortar and pestle until it was fine-ground!).

Then there are those of us who actually prefer it unsweetened . . . I 
won't even mention the abomination of the pseudo-Belles who use 
aspartame instead of sugar in their sweet tea . . .

Besides, there's no good way to make sweet tea out of sun tea, and I 
prefer that method of brewing over hot steeping, anyway.  :)


>But you have a good point about the silverware.  A person as described
>wouldn't really care how his iced tea tasted, as long as it was presented
>correctly.

And it gives him something to have the house-elves do when they're 
not waiting on him hand and foot - it takes a lot of elbow-grease to 
keep a full set of silver polished at all times in the Southern 
humidity.

-- 

  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles(at)earthlink.net
"It is not knowledge, but the act of learning, not possession but the 
act of getting there, which grants the greatest enjoyment. "
	- Gauss, in a Letter to Bolyai, 1808.



From psychic_serpent at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  3 20:14:07 2003
From: psychic_serpent at yahoo.com (psychic_serpent)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 20:14:07 -0000
Subject: British School System
In-Reply-To: <BAY8-F99wfCrbreLDwd00031889@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <be22qf+fq5s@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Terry James" 
<terryljames at h...> wrote:
> I've never really understood this assumption.  I always assumed 
> that, for instance, there are several first-year Gryffindor 
> Herbology classes, not just the one that we happen to see with 
> Harry. 

What would give you this impression?  There's absolutely no 
indication that there are Gryffindor students in Harry's year that 
we don't know about.  I know that some people think there are two 
girls that are never discussed or named, but I think they are not 
discussed or named because they DON'T EXIST.  The entire basis of 
this assumption is the number of transformations that the boggart 
goes through during Lupin's DADA class, but that hardly seems like 
proof given that the sequence during which the boggart turns, 
successively, into a rat, rattlesnake and single bloody eyeball is 
followed by this:

"It's confused!" shouted Lupin.  "We're getting there!"

It seems obvious that the number of transformations exceeding the 
number of students in the class (eight) is due to the boggart's 
confusion; it is trying to compensate, to transform into whatever it 
thinks will most frighten the nearest person, but there are too 
many, and it's rather flailing about.  

> This seems to be what happens at Hogwarts--one group stays 
> together all the time (except for the optional courses), but there 
> is more than one group involved, and we just don't see the others.
> 
> Is there something in canon which contradicts this?
 
Yes, the consistent mention of THE Gryffindor first, second, third 
and fourth (and now fifth) year dormitory (it's the ONLY ONE), which 
is always described as having five beds.  I think that JKR was quite 
careful all along to introduce all of Harry's classmates to us (in 
Gryffindor, anyway) and there's absolutely no proof in canon that it 
ISN'T like this.  To take this at anything other than face value is 
to be reading things into the text which aren't there, IMO.  Plus, 
when JKR needed to introduce new students for the DA in OotP, she 
didn't introduce new Gryffindor students in Harry's year, did she?  
She gave us new Ravenclaws chiefly (they were very lacking before).  
We still don't know all of the names of Pansy's 'gang of Slytherin 
girls,' but there's no reason to believe that there are unnamed 
Gryffindors who've been in the same year with Harry all this time, 
living in other dormitories and taking classes at other times.  The 
text simply does not support this assertion.

--Barb

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychic_Serpent
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb





From gwendolyngrace at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  3 20:39:35 2003
From: gwendolyngrace at yahoo.com (Gwen)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:39:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Two Weeks' Notice
Message-ID: <20030703203935.51660.qmail@web13502.mail.yahoo.com>

No not the film (though I did just rent it the other
night), Nimbus - 2003.

Two weeks away. Hard to believe.

We know we owe you information on the Night Bus, and
more. It should be coming shortly. Meanwhile, though
we wanted to send out our packing list reminders and
make a few more announcements:

1. Nimbus - 2003 will be covered on the syndicated
radio show, SciFiOverdrive, this Monday. Check out
their website for a station or webstream near you:

http://www.interstellartransmissions.com/sfod/index.html


2. The Switchblade Kittens have graciously offered to
do an acoustic concert on Thursday night, after the 
MWPP panel. This girl-punk band is well-known in
California and on the west coast, and will perform
many of their favourites, including the "Ode to Harry
Potter." Kick back and relax or practice your dance
steps for Friday's FictionAlley Birthday Bash. (For
more on the Switchblade Kittens, see their website:

http://www.switchbladekittens.com )


3. Our Quidditch rules are up on the site! There will
be sign-up sheets in the game room when you arrive. Go
to the "Gallery and Games" page on the site:

http://www.hp2003.org/nimbusgallery.html

We can field up to six teams, and they are:
The San Juan Seagulls 
The Orlando Ospreys
The Tampa Toucans 
The Miami Macaws 
The Cape Canaveral Kestrels 
The Pensacola Pelicans 


4. With the time to pack looming, we wanted to provide
a cheat-sheet for your packing list. Be sure to bring
all your stuff, including:
a. Worst HP Merchandise for Thursday night's contest
b. Your casting contest entries (for information on
both these, check out the website:

http://www.hp2003.org/nimbusgallery.html )

c. Your robes 
d. Your wand 
e. Your (stuffed) owl, cat, or toad (Remember, if you
don't have your own Wizard Gear, you can buy some when
you get there!)
f. Your dancing shoes (and a comfortable walking pair)
g. Your thinking caps - the quest will take you
through brain teasers and more
h. Your PJ's for our Double-Feature party
i. A notepad for all the wonderful presentations
you'll attend
j. Your camera or videocam to record the event and
capture your friends at their best (or worst)
k. Your love of the books and your excitement for a
great weekend!


Gwen


=====
Bring Your Own Broom to Nimbus - 2003!
http://www.hp2003.org/

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com



From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  3 22:35:49 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 22:35:49 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, Pip and Debbie!
In-Reply-To: <20030703122458.51439.qmail@web41101.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <be2b45+ovp3@eGroups.com>

Folks, you may not know just how much these two hardworking Elves do 
around here.  But I'll give you a hint:  if you're on moderated 
status and your posts take a while to get through today, it's 
probably because they've kicked back for their birthday.  If not for 
these two, the Pending Messages queue would be really long.

So, you two, enjoy at least a butterbeer break on us! Happy happy, 
Pip!  Happy happy, Debbie!

Amy Z




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  3 22:39:01 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 22:39:01 -0000
Subject: Request to honourable masters (Humble)
In-Reply-To: <be0nuc+7ive@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <be2ba5+8ttv@eGroups.com>

Jo wrote:

> Thanks for your patience towards the thousands(?) of us party
> gatecrashers!

Gatecrashers?  Heck, you're reinforcements!  Is that a cheese tray 
you're carrying?  And doesn't that guy behind you have a case of 
Fizzing Whizzbees?

Thanks for the invitation.  Next time I post I'll point the way to 
some oldies but goodies.

Amy
feeling old




From lilac_bearry at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  4 01:36:48 2003
From: lilac_bearry at yahoo.com (Lilac)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 01:36:48 -0000
Subject: Latin Experts...please help!
Message-ID: <be2lng+fjg6@eGroups.com>

Hello, brilliant people!

I need to translate an English phrase into Latin, and was wondering 
if anyone could help me out.  Please email me off list if you can 
help me out.  Thanks!

Lilac 

lilac_bearry at yahoo.com




From desiivy at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  4 02:05:22 2003
From: desiivy at yahoo.com (desiivy)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 02:05:22 -0000
Subject: A hello, & a Question
Message-ID: <be2nd2+hr2a@eGroups.com>

 Hi, My nmae is Ivy, i joined here a few weeks ago, after I joined up 
with the main list, I haven't yet had the chance to say hello, yet. 
 I have a question I was wondering if in England they have a group 
like the like the boy scouts, here in USA. Anyone know the name if 
they do, I am working on a fanfic. Thanks, Ivy 




From jillily3g at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  4 04:38:17 2003
From: jillily3g at yahoo.com (Beth)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 04:38:17 -0000
Subject: I just wanted to say thanks...
Message-ID: <be30bp+5503@eGroups.com>

I've just realized that I've been a (mostly lurking) member of one 
sister group or another for about two years and it's been a great 
experience. I've been able to find the answers to questions I've had 
regarding the books and feel I'm not (too) obsessed for asking them 
in the first place :o)

Speaking of obsession, I've been able turn mine into profit, lol! A 
local community college is holding a kids on campus program in 
August and I will be teaching a class on Harry Potter. So, thank 
you, Curt Angeli for posting your question that led to the idea, and 
apologies for my lame ideas for your class. 

Beth




From macloudt at hotmail.com  Fri Jul  4 10:55:26 2003
From: macloudt at hotmail.com (Mary Ann)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 10:55:26 -0000
Subject: A hello, & a Question
In-Reply-To: <be2nd2+hr2a@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <be3meu+pd16@eGroups.com>

Ivy asked:

>  I have a question I was wondering if in England they have a group 
> like the like the boy scouts, here in USA. 

Oh, yes.  In fact, the Scout and Guide movement originated in England 
with Lord and Lady Baden-Powell.  Beaver Scouts are aged 6 to 8, Cub 
Scouts are aged 8 to, erm, 10, I think, and Scouts are 10 to 15ish.  
Beyond that you have Venture Scouts, at least in the UK.

Welcome to the group, and I hope this info helps. :)

Mary Ann
(Rainbow Guide leader, and soon-to-be Beaver Leader because I'm a 
glutton for punishment)




From witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  4 11:58:11 2003
From: witchwanda2002 at yahoo.com (Wanda the *B*Witch)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 04:58:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OT- Happy Fourth of July aka Happy Birthday America!
Message-ID: <20030704115811.10568.qmail@web13705.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey everybody here in the USA, Happy Fourth of July! Hope the weather co-operates for all the outdoor fun! Happy Friday to everybody else around the world or Saturday!
 
Wanda the *B*Witch and Her Very Merry Band of Muggles 100%




The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits. ~~~ Albert Einstein 
  


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  4 09:02:35 2003
From: jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com (Haggridd)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 09:02:35 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, America!
Message-ID: <be3frb+l8id@eGroups.com>

Happy Birthday to U.S.
Happy Birthday to U.S.
Happy Birthday, dear United States of America,
Happy Birthday to U.S.



When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one 
people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with 
another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate 
and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God 
entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires 
that they should declare the causes which impel them to the 
separation. 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created 
equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain 
unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the 
pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are 
instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of 
the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes 
destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or 
to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation 
on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them 
shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. 
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established 
should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly 
all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, 
while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing 
the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of 
abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a 
design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it 
is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new 
Guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient 
sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which 
constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The 
history of the present King of Great Britain [George III] is a 
history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct 
object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To 
prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world. 

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary 
for the public good. 

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing 
importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent 
should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected 
to attend to them. 

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large 
districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right 
of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and 
formidable to tyrants only. 

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, 
uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public 
Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with 
his measures. 

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with 
manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people. 

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause 
others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of 
Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their 
exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the 
dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within. 

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for 
that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; 
refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and 
raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands. 

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his 
Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers. 

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of 
their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries. 

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of 
Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance. 

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the 
consent of our legislatures. 

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to 
the Civil power. 

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign 
to our constitution and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent 
to their Acts of pretended Legislation: 

For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us: 

For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders 
which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States: 

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world: 

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent: 

For depriving us, in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury: 

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences: 

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring 
Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging 
its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit 
instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these 
Colonies: 

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and 
altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments: 

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves 
invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever. 

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his 
Protection and waging War against us. 

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and 
destroyed the lives of our people. 

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries 
to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun 
with circumstances of Cruelty and perfidy scarcely paralleled in the 
most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized 
nation. 

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas 
to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of 
their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands. 

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured 
to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian 
Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished 
destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions. 

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in 
the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only 
by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every 
act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free 
people. 

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We 
have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature 
to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded 
them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We 
have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have 
conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these 
usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and 
correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and 
of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, 
which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of 
mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends. 

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, 
in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the 
world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by 
the Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish 
and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be 
Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all 
Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection 
between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be 
totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have 
full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish 
Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent 
States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with 
a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually 
pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor. 


Haggridd




From hebrideanblack at earthlink.net  Fri Jul  4 15:58:40 2003
From: hebrideanblack at earthlink.net (Wendy St John)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 08:58:40 -0700
Subject: Today's Word of the Day - might be of interest
Message-ID: <410-22003754155840258@earthlink.net>

Hi, Everyone,

The Miriam-Webster Word of the Day makes reference to Sirius (as in the Dog
Star). Thought some of you might be interested:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/mwwod.pl

:-)


Wendy St John
hebrideanblack at earthlink.net







From heidit at netbox.com  Fri Jul  4 16:55:01 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (heiditandy)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 16:55:01 -0000
Subject: Celebrate FictionAlley's Second Birthday Party - two weeks from today!
Message-ID: <be4bh5+e82u@eGroups.com>

On July 18, 2003, FictionAlley will be celebrating its second 
birthday during Nimbus - 2003!

Starting at 9pm and running until 1am at the Copa Banana at the Swan 
& Dolphin Hotel Complex (http://www.swandolphin.com/home.html), 
FictionAlley will be celebrating to the tunes of our own Nancy 
Malfoy at the deejay stand - plus there will be food and cake for 
all, as well as two themed drinks available at the (cash) bar.

The cover charge will be $10/person, and anyone over 14 is invited - 
but remember, the bartenders will be carding and nobody under 21 is 
allowed to purchase alcohol. 

Registration for Nimbus - 2003 (http://www.hp2003.org) is encouraged 
but not required for attendence to the birthday bash. 

Hope to see you there!

Heidi for FictionAlley




From artsylynda at aol.com  Fri Jul  4 18:26:19 2003
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:26:19 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] air conditioning
Message-ID: <12b.2d6858c4.2c3720cb@aol.com>

Silly question, this, but it bothers me.  If the houses on Privet Drive are 
so "nice" and the owners so "particular," why do they have their windows open 
on a hot day?  Don't houses like that have air conditioning?  I realize the 
open windows help the plot a lot (letting owls in, letting Harry hear the news, 
etc.) but still, if it's so hot, why not use a/c?  And another thing (this 
bothers me from TV ads here in the US which are often filmed in California where 
there aren't as many flies and other bugs, since they're in the desert, as 
there are here in the Midwest or in the South) -- why no screens?  Don't they have 
bugs to worry about in Surrey?  In California or Hawaii, screens are 
unnecessary, but in other parts of the country, there are a lot of bugs so we have 
screens on our windows, doors, even porches.  In Florida, they will have screens 
covering their entire back yards quite often, to protect them from mosquitos.  
My curiosity is running amuck here -- any Brits care to answer my queries?  
Thanks!  ;->

Lynda 
* * *
". . .the cat's among the pixies now."  Mrs. Figg, OoP


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From pinguthegreek at pinguthegreek.net  Fri Jul  4 18:30:56 2003
From: pinguthegreek at pinguthegreek.net (Pinguthegreek)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:30:56 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] air conditioning
References: <12b.2d6858c4.2c3720cb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00bc01c3425a$6be0cb90$c95fc487@personal>


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: artsylynda at aol.com 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 7:26 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] air conditioning


  Silly question, this, but it bothers me.  If the houses on Privet Drive are 
  so "nice" and the owners so "particular," why do they have their windows open 
  on a hot day?  Don't houses like that have air conditioning?My curiosity is running amuck here -- any Brits care to answer my queries?  
  Thanks!  ;->

  Since our summer lasts almost exactly two weeks, followed by constant rain, our houses are never vuilt with air con. And if there is a heatwave, all the fans sell like hotcakes. 

  So we just tend to be Englsish and open windows and suffer in silence.....


  Michelle




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  4 18:47:20 2003
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 18:47:20 -0000
Subject: the state of screens in the state of California
In-Reply-To: <12b.2d6858c4.2c3720cb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <be4i3o+lse4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, artsylynda at a... wrote:

<snip>

> In California or Hawaii, screens are unnecessary,
> but in other parts of the country, there are a lot
> of bugs so we have screens on our windows, doors,
> even porches.  

<snip>

> Lynda 

Speaking as a Californian who bought a house 5 years 
ago, I can say that although we have nowhere near as 
many bugs as people in the South or East do, we do 
have them.  Esp. flies, which bug me <heh> to no end.  
But not only that, in California it is actually 
illegal to sell a house without screens on each and 
every window (though the state of repair is not 
important).  When we bought our house, not one single 
window had a screen on it.  I won't go into the state 
of the windows - suffice it to say that a majority 
were nailed shut.  Anyway, we were required by law to 
state in our offer that we would put in screens 
within a year (and we were inspected by the county on 
that point), and because the seller had no intention 
of putting in screens (she had rented the house out 
previously and as she lived out of the area, she 
didn't want to bother), she gave us a $3,000 credit 
for the lack of screens.

So.

Your commercials must be shot on sound stages. ;)

-Jen (who has the a/c on *right now* - it's 100 
degrees outside!)




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  4 18:49:48 2003
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 18:49:48 -0000
Subject: the state of screens in the state of California
In-Reply-To: <be4i3o+lse4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <be4i8c+h7d0@eGroups.com>

I said:
 
> But not only that, in California it is actually 
> illegal to sell a house without screens on each and 
> every window (though the state of repair is not 
> important).

Uh... I should clarify.  On every operable window.

Duh.  You don't need a screen on a window you can't 
open.

;)

-Jen, who's been sick for almost a week now, and 
hasn't been able to go to her new health club yet, 
darnit!




From pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk  Fri Jul  4 19:46:06 2003
From: pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk (bluesqueak)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 19:46:06 -0000
Subject: air conditioning
In-Reply-To: <00bc01c3425a$6be0cb90$c95fc487@personal>
Message-ID: <be4lhu+bkue@eGroups.com>

Lynda wrote: 
>   Silly question, this, but it bothers me.  If the houses on 
>  Privet Drive are  so "nice" and the owners so "particular," why 
>  do they have their windows open  on a hot day?  Don't houses like 
> that have air conditioning? My curiosity is running amuck here --  
> any Brits care to answer my queries?  
>   Thanks!  ;->
> 
Michelle:
>   Since our summer lasts almost exactly two weeks, followed by 
constant rain, our houses are never vuilt with air con. And if there 
is a heatwave, all the fans sell like hotcakes. 
> 
>   So we just tend to be English and open windows and suffer in 
silence.....

Yup. Offices have air-conditioning, because of the risk of the 
entire computing system melting in summer. Private houses usually 
don't - as Michelle says, it's not cost effective for the two weeks 
of sweltering heat that we get. 


Of course, the two weeks are not the *same* two weeks every year. 
Summer can consist of two weeks worth of good days, spread out 
between June and September. In between the good days it rains. Or 
worse. In living memory, it has snowed in June.

So we don't believe in air conditioning. The modern Brit does tend 
to believe in Central Heating, though. Very firmly. ;-)

Pip





From bboy_mn at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  4 20:52:56 2003
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 20:52:56 -0000
Subject: FanFic Help - Deep South THANKS
In-Reply-To: <bdtae5+9oap@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <be4pf8+aiud@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboy_mn at y...> wrote:
> This is way off topic, but I was wondering if we have someone from
> the deep south (USA) or familiar with the deep south.
> 
> SETUP-
> 
> Through a long series of events, Dobby and Harry are meeting with a
> southern plantation owner (a wizard). ...
> 
> QUESTION #1-
> After offerring Harry refreshment, they decide on lemonade;.... 
> So when the house-elf bring the tray, what else should be on it? 
> ...
> I'm looking for an additional treat, probably finger food, that 
> would reflect southern cooking. ...edited...
> 
> QUESTION #2-
> 
> I need some common (stereotypical) slave names (for the elves), both
> male and female, ... I've come up with is Eliza and Toby. 
> 
> bboy_mn

bboy_mn:

Thanks to everyone who replied. I got some great ideas, especially
about the proper way to present it. I hadn't even thought of that. I
was just going to have the elf bring three glasses of lemonade on a
tray. But three glasses of ice with a pitcher will actually work
better. Plus the special ice teaspoon, small tray of lemon slices,
etc... will all help create a much more vivid mental image.

A couple people contacted me off-line and wanted to know where this
was actually taking place since different areas of the south have
different traditions and foods. The location will either be Virginia
or Georgia (I'm leaning toward Virginia). For story reasons, it has to
be near South Carolina. There is a ginger ale company in South
Carolina that Harry and Ron know about (it's a long story), and they
will briefly contemplate whether they should go there and get some
ginger ale. 

That geographic location also make the Peach Turnover idea a good one;
an idea that hadn't occurred to me. It's a somewhat elegant finger
food. Far more elegant than common donut shop sweet rolls. The peach
turnover idea also open the possibility for Harry to confuse them with
'pasties', which as you know from reading the story are a pastries (of
sorts) that are more like 'hot pockets', sort of a meal in a pastry
shell. 

I'm open to more ideas either on-line or off, and thanks again to
those who responded.

Steve




From triner918 at aol.com  Fri Jul  4 23:58:34 2003
From: triner918 at aol.com (Trina)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 23:58:34 -0000
Subject: Sweet Tea (was:Need FanFic Help - Deep South)
In-Reply-To: <p05200f00bb2a30ae78c2@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <be54ba+d8hk@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Jennifer Boggess Ramon <> 
> Class break: a plantation owner's iced tea will probably *not* 
> already be sweetened.  This is one of the fast ways of telling New 
> Money from Old Blood in the South.  There will be a china sugar 
bowl on the tray with a silver sugar spoon in it, and the sugar spoon 
will match the iced tea spoons.  (If the tea were already sweetened, 
you  wouldn't get to use your great-grandmother's sugar spoon.)



This may be true, but it is much easier to sweeten the tea when it is 
still warm (right after it steeps) because the sugar dissolves and 
you can get it to that "ropy" consistency.  "Ropy" is a family term, 
btw, for very sweet tea. ;^)

Trina




From Joanne0012 at aol.com  Sat Jul  5 00:11:24 2003
From: Joanne0012 at aol.com (joanne0012)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 00:11:24 -0000
Subject: air conditioning
In-Reply-To: <be4lhu+bkue@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <be553c+of1s@eGroups.com>


> Lynda wrote: 
> >   Silly question, this, but it bothers me.  If the houses on 
> >  Privet Drive are  so "nice" and the owners so "particular," why 
> >  do they have their windows open  on a hot day?  Don't houses like 
> > that have air conditioning? 

An American here, just adding to the expert consensus: I once did a home 
exchange with a family who had a VERY fancy townhouse in the London 
outskirts, in Finchley.  The ten-minute walk through their neighborhood to the 
tube revealed that everyone else, like them, had neither window screens nor 
any type of AC in homes that listed at the local estate agent's for hundreds of 
thousands of pounds (eat your heart out, Petunia!).  Yet during our visit we 
encountered not a single fly or mosquito. How do they DO that?!  

Meanwhile, back here in the US, we were having temps in the 90s and my 
poor  exchangers, after having special lessons in operating our air 
conditioners, couldn't sleep with the noise of them running and spent our 95-
degree heat wave sleeping in the basement playroom!




From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  5 03:43:32 2003
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 03:43:32 -0000
Subject: Sweet Tea (was:Need FanFic Help - Deep South)
In-Reply-To: <be54ba+d8hk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <be5hh4+qf35@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Trina" <triner918 at a...> > 
This may be true, but it is much easier to sweeten the tea when it 
is 
> still warm (right after it steeps) because the sugar dissolves and 
> you can get it to that "ropy" consistency.  "Ropy" is a family 
term, 
> btw, for very sweet tea. ;^)
> 
> Trina

Trina,

ahh yes!  Tea sweetens so much better when warm!  I'm in Texas and 
we all drink sweet tea, except for the transplanted people.  
Everytime you go to their house, they have unsweetened and it is so 
nasty because it takes me six or seven packages of sugar to get it 
just a little sweet!  That drives me crazy.  Something else I have 
noticed that amuses me is that transplants call Coke "pop."  Here in 
the south, everything is Coke - it doesn't matter if you bring 
Sprite, Pepsi, root beer or actual Coke, we just refer to it all 
as "coke."  Hehe.  When someone is having a party and you ask what 
you can bring, they all say, "coke."  That means bring any sort of 
carbonated drink ;).  The differences as you move about the country 
are interesting.

Alora




From tongapeach at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  5 06:15:45 2003
From: tongapeach at yahoo.com (tongapeach)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 06:15:45 -0000
Subject: Sweet Tea (was:Need FanFic Help - Deep South)
In-Reply-To: <be5hh4+qf35@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <be5qeh+j68t@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "alora" <chrisnlorrie at y...> 
wrote:
> ahh yes!  Tea sweetens so much better when warm!  I'm in Texas and 
> we all drink sweet tea, except for the transplanted people.  
> Everytime you go to their house, they have unsweetened and it is so 
> nasty because it takes me six or seven packages of sugar to get it 
> just a little sweet!  That drives me crazy.  Something else I have 
> noticed that amuses me is that transplants call Coke "pop."  Here 
in 
> the south, everything is Coke - it doesn't matter if you bring 
> Sprite, Pepsi, root beer or actual Coke, we just refer to it all 
> as "coke."  Hehe.  When someone is having a party and you ask what 
> you can bring, they all say, "coke."  That means bring any sort of 
> carbonated drink ;).  The differences as you move about the country 
> are interesting.


Heh, don't go north of the Mason-Dixie line... you ask for sweet tea 
up there and they look at you like you're completely off your rocker. 
Drove me insane, being a transplant from the south... 

Tonga




From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Jul  5 06:48:00 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 06:48:00 -0000
Subject: air conditioning
In-Reply-To: <be4lhu+bkue@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <be5sb0+9721@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bluesqueak" <pipdowns at e...> 
wrote:

> The modern Brit does tend to believe in Central Heating, though. 
> Very firmly. ;-)

Really? All my old 1920s-30s-40s-50s mystery novels have the British 
character sneering at "soulless" American central heating.




From tongapeach at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  5 06:59:48 2003
From: tongapeach at yahoo.com (tongapeach)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 06:59:48 -0000
Subject: Need FanFic Help - Deep South
In-Reply-To: <bdtae5+9oap@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <be5t14+mpqj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboy_mn at y...> wrote:
> This is way off topic, but I was wondering if we have someone from 
the
> deep south (USA) or familiar with the deep south.

Ooh, I'm a (former) Maconite. ;-) Macon, GA- went to the women's 
college there. Plantations beware, Wesleyan is about as close to 
the 'old South' as I think you can get. ;-) Forget Ivy League, this 
was Kudzu League.

> QUESTION #1-
> After offerring Harry refreshment, they decide on lemonade; Harry
> likes lemons. So when the house-elf bring the tray, what else should
> be on it? 
> I'm looking for an additional treat, probably finger food, that 
would
> reflect southern cooking. This meeting takes place mid-afternoon.

Tea time in the Deep South, *sigh*, well at Wesleyan this is how it 
was done. Cucumber sandwiches are a must! (never went to a social 
gala or anything where this wasn't done for 'refreshment'), petit-
fours (ex: little tarts- think mini Pecan pies ;-)) or ladyfingers, 
sweet biscuits (like little American biscuits but sweet).

And if this Southern wizard is an older gentlemen he'll have some 
sort of liquor or bourbon around. ;-)

> QUESTION #2-
> 
> I need some common (stereotypical) slave names (for the elves), both
> male and female, or any suggestion where I might be able to look 
these
> up. So far, all I've come up with is Eliza and Toby. 

Stereotypical slave names (or not): Mary, Sarah, Louanna, Dixie, 
Nate, Betty Anne, Peggy?

In agreement, he would not call them by their names- perhaps house-
elves, but not others. And going by the 'rule of Crouch' he would 
most likely call all of them 'elf'.

Hope this helps,
Tonga




From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Jul  5 09:12:01 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 09:12:01 -0000
Subject: Today's Word of the Day - might be of interest
In-Reply-To: <410-22003754155840258@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <be64p1+je0e@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Wendy St John" 
<hebrideanblack at e...> wrote:
> Hi, Everyone,
> 
> The Miriam-Webster Word of the Day makes reference to Sirius (as in
> the Dog Star). Thought some of you might be interested:
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/mwwod.pl

http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/mwwodarch.pl?Jul.04
O
o
P
s
p
o
i
l
s
p
a
c
e

I think "Canicula" would be a very good name for Sirius's mum. What 
do people think his father and Andromeda, Bellatrix, and Narcissa's 
father were named?




From pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk  Sat Jul  5 09:18:43 2003
From: pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk (bluesqueak)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 09:18:43 -0000
Subject: air conditioning
In-Reply-To: <be5sb0+9721@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <be655j+c3ms@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince 
Winston)" <catlady at w...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bluesqueak" 
<pipdowns at e...> 
> wrote:
> 
> > The modern Brit does tend to believe in Central Heating, though. 
> > Very firmly. ;-)
> 
> Really? All my old 1920s-30s-40s-50s mystery novels have the 
> British character sneering at "soulless" American central heating.

True. But that dates from the days when those Upper to Upper middle 
characters had *servants* to do the messy and exhausting job of 
cleaning out and re-laying the fire every morning. In each and every 
room. 

Once they had to do it *themselves*, they suddenly stopped sneering 
at Central Heating [grin].

Pip






From przepla at ipartner.com.pl  Sat Jul  5 09:49:45 2003
From: przepla at ipartner.com.pl (Przemyslaw Plaskowicki)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 11:49:45 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] air conditioning
In-Reply-To: <12b.2d6858c4.2c3720cb@aol.com>
References: <12b.2d6858c4.2c3720cb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3F069F39.2060703@ipartner.com.pl>

artsylynda at aol.com napisa:
> Silly question, this, but it bothers me.  If the houses on Privet Drive are 
> so "nice" and the owners so "particular," why do they have their windows open 
> on a hot day?  Don't houses like that have air conditioning?  I realize the 
> open windows help the plot a lot (letting owls in, letting Harry hear the news, 
> etc.) but still, if it's so hot, why not use a/c?  And another thing (this 
> bothers me from TV ads here in the US which are often filmed in California where 
> there aren't as many flies and other bugs, since they're in the desert, as 
> there are here in the Midwest or in the South) -- why no screens?  Don't they have 
> bugs to worry about in Surrey?  In California or Hawaii, screens are 
> unnecessary, but in other parts of the country, there are a lot of bugs so we have 
> screens on our windows, doors, even porches.  In Florida, they will have screens 
> covering their entire back yards quite often, to protect them from mosquitos.  
> My curiosity is running amuck here -- any Brits care to answer my queries?  
> Thanks!  ;->

Most Americans and Europeans does not really now, how different is 
climate between Europe and US. But let's take a look on the map: London 
is as far north as Montreal, Canada (ca. 52 N), and Florida is as far 
south as Luksor, Egypt (ca 25 N). So all Europeans on the list, while 
thinking of weather in southern states -- think of Egypt, and all 
Americans here -- while considering weather in Hogwarts think of 
Canadian coast cities.

Pshemekan





From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  5 14:54:41 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 10:54:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Belated Birthday Wishes!
Message-ID: <20030705145441.68900.qmail@web41103.mail.yahoo.com>

*bad Birthday Elf hangs streamers and blows up
balloons with bandages on her fingers*

Yup, I missed one. I offer sincere apologies and have
already slammed my fingers in the oven door.

Yesterday's birthday honouree was Duncan October.
Belated birthday owls can be sent care of this list or
directly to duncanoct at yahoo.com

I hope you day was filled with joy and much magic.

Happy Birthday, Duncan!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf

=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From artsylynda at aol.com  Sat Jul  5 15:29:28 2003
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 11:29:28 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] air conditioning
Message-ID: <1df.cb2c021.2c3848d8@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/5/2003 5:30:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com writes:

>  Since our summer lasts almost exactly two weeks, followed by constant 
> rain, our houses are never vuilt with air con. And if there is a heatwave, all 
> the fans sell like hotcakes. 
> 
>  So we just tend to be Englsish and open windows and suffer in silence.....
> 
> 
> 

Two weeks of summer?  Yikes!  And those would be when, the end of July, first 
of August?  Is it like that all over England or just around London or what?  
(One of these days, I HAVE to get over there and see England, Scotland and 
Ireland first hand!)  Thanks for the info!  

Lynda 
* * *
". . .the cat's among the pixies now."  Mrs. Figg, OoP


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From pinguthegreek at pinguthegreek.net  Sat Jul  5 15:35:24 2003
From: pinguthegreek at pinguthegreek.net (Pinguthegreek)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 16:35:24 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] air conditioning
References: <1df.cb2c021.2c3848d8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <011801c3430b$11016070$c95fc487@personal>

>  Since our summer lasts almost exactly two weeks, followed by constant 
> rain, our houses are never vuilt with air con. And if there is a heatwave, all 
> the fans sell like hotcakes. 
> 
>  So we just tend to be Englsish and open windows and suffer in silence.....
> 
> 
> 

Two weeks of summer?  Yikes!  And those would be when, the end of July, first 
of August?  Is it like that all over England or just around London or what?  
(One of these days, I HAVE to get over there and see England, Scotland and 
Ireland first hand!)  Thanks for the info!  

Devon and Cornwall have the most reliable warm weather in southern England. Further north, I have no clue. 

I have to say I am surprised that you are you surprised at our weather conditions ! Although, saying that, I was suprised to arrive in Chicago in the middle of a thunderstorm !

Michelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From maryteresamilly at aol.com  Sat Jul  5 15:35:46 2003
From: maryteresamilly at aol.com (mtpm123)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 15:35:46 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter Party for Grownups
Message-ID: <be6r8i+7fd1@eGroups.com>

Hi, I'm new to the group and I hope someone can help me. I'll be 
throwing a Harry Potter party for adults and need some ideas. All I 
can find are ideas for children's parties. I can use a few of these 
but just wondering if any of you had given a Harry Potter party. 
Thanks for the help. mtpm123




From jillily3g at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  5 16:33:18 2003
From: jillily3g at yahoo.com (Beth)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 16:33:18 -0000
Subject: air conditioning
In-Reply-To: <011801c3430b$11016070$c95fc487@personal>
Message-ID: <be6uke+6opa@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Pinguthegreek" 
<pinguthegreek at p...> wrote:
> I have to say I am surprised that you are you surprised at our 
weather conditions ! Although, saying that, I was suprised to arrive 
in Chicago in the middle of a thunderstorm !
> 
> Michelle


IMHO, many here in the US are surprised at fellow citizens weather 
conditions. For example, right now in my little corner of the 
midwest, it is 81?F Humidity: 61%, which is cooler and "drier" than 
yesterday, when we were predicted to have 98% humidity (perfect for 
viewing fireworks on a blanket with your children all around...). 
When I went to a convention in St. Louis last September, some ladies 
from Washington State were wilting in the humidity, since for them, 
25% is muggy. And personally, I haven't been in the deep South past 
May. 

OTOH, I found I dealt with the heat much better before we had 
central air. 

Beth





From macloudt at hotmail.com  Sat Jul  5 17:31:14 2003
From: macloudt at hotmail.com (Mary Ann)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 17:31:14 -0000
Subject: air conditioning
In-Reply-To: <3F069F39.2060703@ipartner.com.pl>
Message-ID: <be7212+2lsf@eGroups.com>

Pshemekan wrote:

> Most Americans and Europeans does not really now, how different is 
> climate between Europe and US. But let's take a look on the map: 
London 
> is as far north as Montreal, Canada (ca. 52 N), and Florida is as 
far 
> south as Luksor, Egypt (ca 25 N). So all Europeans on the list, 
while 
> thinking of weather in southern states -- think of Egypt, and all 
> Americans here -- while considering weather in Hogwarts think of 
> Canadian coast cities.

<vbg>  Have you ever been in Montreal (or Ottawa, or Toronto...) in 
the middle of summer?  There's a reason why most southern Canadians 
have air conditioning as well.  It's not so much the temperature 
(rarely hotter than the high 30s Celcius) but the humidity.  Weather 
reports have what's called a Humidex which tells you how hot it feels 
rather than how hot it technically is, and the humidex can be up to 
15 degrees hotter than the actual temperature.

Our house in Montreal didn't have air conditioning and it was a 
nightmare.  OTOH the air conditioning in our house in Toronto was so 
efficient that you could pack meat in my basement bedroom. <g>  
Certainly all the large Canadian cities have very hot summers though 
the humidity levels fluctuate.  It's also not unusual for 
temperatures to fluctuate 30 degrees C within 24 hours, as it did in 
the Toronto area a few months ago (I get weekly weather updates from 
my Dad in Toronto when he calls me on a Sunday night :) ).

I've lived in England for 8 years and can attest to the 2-weeks-of-
summer situation.  Take now, for instance.  May was nice and June was 
fabulous in my part of the country, but once July started the rain 
came and the temperature has dipped.  Typical.

Mary Ann
(who hopes next Sunday will be nice as she's having a huge BBQ)




From desiivy at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  5 17:36:38 2003
From: desiivy at yahoo.com (~Ivy~)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 10:36:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: A hello, & a Question
In-Reply-To: <be3meu+pd16@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030705173638.98481.qmail@web12707.mail.yahoo.com>


Mary Ann & Haggridd, 

Thank you so much for the information. 

It will help out alot. 

          Ivy 


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From glcherry at bellsouth.net  Sat Jul  5 18:26:32 2003
From: glcherry at bellsouth.net (stardancerofas)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 18:26:32 -0000
Subject: Fanfic Help
Message-ID: <be758o+ajpb@eGroups.com>

Another thing everyone must remember too is that alot of old Southern
families also hold on tightly to their English / Scot / Irish
traditions. I am, of course, referring to High Tea. Cucumber
sandwiches, Preserves, and Scones. Fresh fruit (especially in the
Summer) As for the preserves...let's not forget THE Southern
Traditon...FIGS. Fig cookies, Fig cake. Plum cakes...Goodness
gracious. I'm getting hungry now. :)

Lorrie




From rascals214 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  5 18:26:36 2003
From: rascals214 at yahoo.com (Holly)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 18:26:36 -0000
Subject: I'm new here from PA
Message-ID: <be758s+uo8e@eGroups.com>

Hi there!  I'm pretty new to the HPFGU and I'm from Pennsylvania.  I 
was wondering if there was anyone else lurking around the boards 
that is from PA, specifically the Philadelphia area.  I would love 
to meet other fans from around here.

HollyVlad




From insanus_scottus at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Jul  5 18:55:11 2003
From: insanus_scottus at yahoo.co.uk (Scott)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 18:55:11 -0000
Subject: FanFic Help - Deep South THANKS
In-Reply-To: <be4pf8+aiud@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <be76uf+e8pa@eGroups.com>

Steve,
I know this is a little behind, and you may've already decided on 
what your doing but I still thought I'd respond. 

Firstly if they need to be fairly close to South Carolina (for the 
Ginger Ale) then why not North Carolina (I should mention that I 
live in NC). Virginia is and isn't the south and it really depends 
on what part of VA you are talking about. Your best bet I would 
think is somewhere pretty centralized and not that far from Richmond 
(or in it). There are some lovely plantation houses there and near 
Williamsburg and Richmond was afterall the capital of the 
Confederate south.  

But NC would work very well too and GA is definitely a good option. 
If you do use NC (or VA) I could go into MUCH more detail which 
might be helpful.

You could serve a pecan pie, or some simple cookies. I think a sugar 
cookies would go well with lemonade. However, the most traditional 
thing, and esp. on a plantation would be Mint Julep, a drink made 
with bourbon, sugar, crushed mint leaves and crushed ice, it is 
traditionally made one at a time and served in silver Julep cups, 
but you can make it by the pitcher-full if need be. Cheese straws 
are served alongside and can be made long strips with puff pastry, 
or (how I usually have them) as a dough of flour, cheese (a sharp 
cheddar) and butter and turned in a cookie press to create elaborate 
shapes.

I can send you more information if you'd like. Lemonade is always a 
good choice, but the most genteel of plantations would surely serve 
mint julip. 

I hope that helps

cheers,
Scott

who's not even going to start on sweet tea ;)




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  5 19:45:24 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:45:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: air conditioning
In-Reply-To: <be7212+2lsf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030705194524.30178.qmail@web41107.mail.yahoo.com>

 --- Mary Ann <macloudt at hotmail.com> 
> 
> <vbg>  Have you ever been in Montreal (or Ottawa, or
> Toronto...) in 
> the middle of summer?  There's a reason why most
> southern Canadians 
> have air conditioning as well.  It's not so much the
> temperature 
> (rarely hotter than the high 30s Celcius) but the
> humidity.  Weather 
> reports have what's called a Humidex which tells you
> how hot it feels 
> rather than how hot it technically is, and the
> humidex can be up to 
> 15 degrees hotter than the actual temperature.
> 
Yup, what she said. Here in Ottawa it is often the
case that the Humidex rating will up the temperature
significantly. We had a mini heatwave last week that
saw Humidex levels over 40 C. The hottest I can
remember us getting was during a heatwave last summer
which days on end of Humidex ratings around 45, with
the worst day topping at 48 C. Definitely not the norm
here. The Humidex has gone down nicely here in the
past few hours, dropping the temp from 40 to 36 C.

> Our house in Montreal didn't have air conditioning
> and it was a 
> nightmare.  OTOH the air conditioning in our house
> in Toronto was so 
> efficient that you could pack meat in my basement
> bedroom. <g>  

We have no air conditioning, as we can't afford the
accompanying summer hydro bills. *sigh* We do have
lots of fans. I keep all the doors and windows open at
night and then close everything up during the day to
keep out as much heat as possible.

> Certainly all the large Canadian cities have very
> hot summers though 
> the humidity levels fluctuate.  It's also not
> unusual for 
> temperatures to fluctuate 30 degrees C within 24
> hours, as it did in 
> the Toronto area a few months ago (I get weekly
> weather updates from 
> my Dad in Toronto when he calls me on a Sunday night
> :) ).
> 
Also true, though not in the winter. When it hits -35,
it stays there for days. Gotta love Canadian weather.
:-D

Sheryll

=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From pinguthegreek at pinguthegreek.net  Sat Jul  5 21:40:23 2003
From: pinguthegreek at pinguthegreek.net (Pinguthegreek)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 22:40:23 +0100
Subject: Pep Rallys ?
Message-ID: <014101c3433e$0d7dd6d0$c95fc487@personal>

Hi everyone....

I'm just watching the start of Varsity Blues.  I just wondered, are pep rallies for real or do people really get enthusiatic ?

What is the tradition of them and is there a set pattern of what happens at them ?

Cross cultural exchange is a wonderful thing, isn't it ?

Michelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Jul  5 21:59:32 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 21:59:32 -0000
Subject: Pep Rallys ?
In-Reply-To: <014101c3433e$0d7dd6d0$c95fc487@personal>
Message-ID: <be7ho4+6e5i@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Pinguthegreek" 
<pinguthegreek at p...> wrote:
> Hi everyone....
> 
> I'm just watching the start of Varsity Blues.  I just wondered, are
> pep rallies for real or do people really get enthusiatic ?

Someone younger will have to speak for nowdays, but in the 1970s, 
pep rallies were for real, but the enthusiasm was mostly faked. The 
only pep rally I attended in high school was one that was compulsory. 
It was at lunch time, in the Quad. The band played, the cheerleaders 
shouted, the principal (headmaster) shouted through a Public Adress 
system that turned everything he said into "rumble ... screech!" I 
was fairly far back and couldn't see anything except endless backs of 
heads. People closer to the front, where the principal could see 
them, shouted upon command ... one of the cheers was something about 
"stylin' in their funky powder blue and white" ...

I went to university where no one except SOME of the players cared 
about sports. But one autumn evening we had a pep rally -- someone 
had posted announcements all over campus, so I went. There was a 
bonfire and a lot of people standing around it in the dark saying "We 
ought to be cheering. Does anyone knows any cheers? By the way, what 
is the name of our team? I think we're the Owls. No, we're the 
Quakers. No, the Quakers are whom we're playing. No, that's the Owls." 
 Some wise person brought a 40-gallon insulated beverage pot and 
unecological styrofoam cups and sold hot apple "cider" for 25 cents a 
cup.




From zorb47 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  5 22:14:00 2003
From: zorb47 at yahoo.com (Zorb)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:14:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Pep Rallys ?
In-Reply-To: <014101c3433e$0d7dd6d0$c95fc487@personal>
Message-ID: <20030705221400.1826.qmail@web20502.mail.yahoo.com>

They are very real - unfortunately, IMHO.  The degree
of enthusiasm varies from person to person, of course.
 You can probably tell I was one of the unenthusiastic
ones.

I don't know how it goes in other parts of the country
- I imagine Texas rallies would be pretty big - but in
my Southern California hometown, they started in
middle school, approximately ages 11-13, and consisted
mainly of the pep squad (we didn't have full
cheerleaders in that school, the squad was basically
student council members and other enthusiastic girls)
trying to get each grade to yell the loudest.

High school wasn't much different, just longer.  They
packed us into the gym and seated us by class in each
corner of the room.  The various cheerleading teams
and dance squads performed, and there was and ongoing
class competition that again was just, "How loud can
you scream your graduation year?" with a few games
thrown in.  My class was notoriously unspirited, and
we lost the competition every year except the last,
when we would have lost had it not been rigged to
favor the seniors.  We were rather proud of that
reputation.

The worst part about pep rallies was that they were
mandatory.  Of course, that didn't stop people from
not being there, especially the first couple of years
when they held them right before an extended lunch
hour.  People with cars and off-campus lunch passes
often made early escapes.  Then the people in charge
wised up and made them first thing in the morning.

Zorb, three years out of high school and not missing
it at all

--- Pinguthegreek <pinguthegreek at pinguthegreek.net>
wrote:
> Hi everyone....
> 
> I'm just watching the start of Varsity Blues.  I
> just wondered, are pep rallies for real or do people
> really get enthusiatic ?
> 
> What is the tradition of them and is there a set
> pattern of what happens at them ?
> 
> Cross cultural exchange is a wonderful thing, isn't
> it ?
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> 
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com



From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Sat Jul  5 23:59:33 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 23:59:33 -0000
Subject: Clay Shirky on social software
In-Reply-To: <be1r9d+lme5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <be7op5+r1eh@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tim Regan" <timregan at m...> 
wrote:

> I've just read an interesting article 
> <http://shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html> on social software 
by 
> Clay Shirky, one of the popular O'Reilly speakers / writers.

Fascinating article.  The quote that *really* stuck out for me 
(among many memorable ones) was:

"The people using your software, even if you own it and pay for it, 
have rights and will behave as if they have rights. And if you 
abrogate those rights, you'll hear about it very quickly."

I have a few questions, though.  Can anyone explain to me:

what is forking?
what is a wiki (and the Wikipedia - if it's what it sounds like it 
is, it's my vision of several years of what the internet could be)?
What is e-bay's 'reputation system' (I have never used e-bay)?

I think it's interesting that as the scale problem suddenly hit us 
really hard, people spontaneously started discussing here issues of 
how to run the main list and regulate its discussion.  Refreshing.

David, who thinks he knows what a Rolodex is, and never wanted one




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Jul  6 00:57:34 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 00:57:34 -0000
Subject: Clay Shirky on social software
In-Reply-To: <be7op5+r1eh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <be7s5u+vd6t@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "David" <dfrankiswork at n...> 
wrote:

> > <http://shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html>

Your post finally got me to read the article. I could throw in a 
couple of nitpicks about Many to Manys before the Internet -- CB 
radio in the 70s, ham radio for a geeky clique, mimeographed 
publications CALLED M2Ms (short for Many to Many) and APAs, even 
the ancient form of the Round Robin manuscript, that is passed from 
member to member by hand or post and each person writes on it before 
passing it to the next. CB was destroyed by problems of scale and the 
others were too inconvenient to become popular. 
> 
> what is forking?

Someone else can give the technical UNIX definition of forking a 
process. As far as us stupid users are concerned, it's named after a 
fork in the road. In the document, when he spoke of trying to fork a 
discussion into seperate 'social' and 'technical' discussions, he was 
referring to what HPfGU did when it forked into separate Main List and 
OT discussions.

> what is a wiki (and the Wikipedia - if it's what it sounds like it 
> is, it's my vision of several years of what the internet could be)?

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki
Wikipedia is a user-created encyclopedia. It must be respectable, 
because One-Look includes it among its sources. 
http://www.onelook.com/index.html

> What is e-bay's 'reputation system' (I have never used e-bay)?

Nor have I.




From saitaina at wizzards.net  Sun Jul  6 01:00:03 2003
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 18:00:03 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Pep Rallys ?
References: <014101c3433e$0d7dd6d0$c95fc487@personal>
Message-ID: <075e01c34359$efa627e0$2437d7aa@net>

Michelle wrote:

<I'm just watching the start of Varsity
Blues.  I just wondered, are pep rallies for
real or do people really get enthusiastic ?>

Yup their real and depending on the student
and school you can get quite enthusiastic.  I
was a member of a group at Elmira High, OR
that knew every word to the school song and
cheers and we were VERY enthusiastic often
getting the crowd going more then the
cheerleaders.

On the other hand my time at Riddle High, OR
was spent watching the morose faces of the
students and wondering how they could not
care about their school.





From rvotaw at i-55.com  Sun Jul  6 03:07:34 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 22:07:34 -0500
Subject: Harry Potter sermon?
Message-ID: <007401c3436b$caf918f0$859ccdd1@RVotaw>

I just returned from my church organization's yearly statewide camp meeting (I'm Pentecostal) and can't help sharing this sermon.  As soon as the minister mentioned Harry Potter, I groaned.  I just knew he would demonize it and tear it apart.  Never, of course, having actually read it.  But he didn't go nearly that far.  In fact, he said four times (I counted!) that he was NOT lamblasting Harry Potter.  He quite obviously had not read the books, but most of his information was taken from the recent issue of Time magazine that focused on why kids like Harry.  

His basic message was that the reason Harry Potter is so successful is that kids need someone to be their hero, something to believe in, something to hope for.  And that Harry Potter is there for kids when the church isn't.  

I did get the giggles once during the sermon, when he mentioned Professor Lipton, the werewolf.    And I kept hissing "Rowling, it's Rowling" when he kept saying "Rawlings."

Just had to share that, as it wasn't what I was expecting when he started out with "Five books, two movies, etc etc."  

Richelle--who just bought a new Chevrolet Impala, and now insists that the Impala emblem is actually Harry's patronus. :)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From psychic_serpent at yahoo.com  Sun Jul  6 03:11:55 2003
From: psychic_serpent at yahoo.com (psychic_serpent)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 03:11:55 -0000
Subject: Pep Rallys ?
In-Reply-To: <be7ho4+6e5i@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <be841r+nvte@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince 
Winston)" <catlady at w...> wrote:
> I went to university where no one except SOME of the players cared 
> about sports. But one autumn evening we had a pep rally -- someone 
> had posted announcements all over campus, so I went. There was a 
> bonfire and a lot of people standing around it in the dark 
> saying "We ought to be cheering. Does anyone knows any cheers? By 
> the way, what is the name of our team? I think we're the Owls. No, 
> we're the Quakers. No, the Quakers are whom we're playing. No, 
> that's the Owls." 

Sorry to folks who get email!  I hit the send button accidentally.  
I was just saying that this sounds very much like Philly, which 
coincidentally seems to have a plethora of schools with very HP-ish 
mascots.  Temple has the Owls.  Drexel has the Dragons.  There may 
be others, but the only other local school mascot that comes to mind 
right now are the Villanova Wildcats (which could become Gryffiindor 
Lions, if you really wanted them to, I suppose).  My husband's old 
high school, Central, also conveniently has colors of crimson and 
gold, although the mascot was the Lancer (a knight on a charging 
horse).

The only 'important' pep rallies we had in high school was when the 
annual crowning of the homecoming queen and then "Miss (fill in name 
of high school here)" was crowned.  The games (football and 
basketball) were pretty much ignored after that, but then I think 
schools with teams that do really well probably have more 
enthusiastic pep rallies than schools that aren't consistently going 
to championships and that sort of thing.  

--Barb, waving to Holly in Philly

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychic_Serpent
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb





From jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com  Sun Jul  6 13:10:17 2003
From: jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com (Haggridd)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 13:10:17 -0000
Subject: REMINDER:  Please Vote for the 2003 Pickled Toad Award for Best Filk of the Year
Message-ID: <be973p+7k5d@eGroups.com>

You have only one week to vote in the poll at HPfGU-OT Chatter for 
the Pickled Toad award for the Best Filk of the Year.  The choices 
are all the category winners from the previous polls.  Don't miss 
this opportunity.

Haggridd




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Jul  6 15:02:00 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 6 Jul 2003 15:02:00 -0000
Subject: Reminder - Weekly Chat 
Message-ID: <1057503720.21.33476.m9@yahoogroups.com>


We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Weekly Chat 

Date: Sunday, July 6, 2003 
Time: 11:00AM - 7:00PM CDT (GMT-05:00) 

Hi everyone! 

Don't forget, chat happens today, 11 am Pacific, 2 pm Eastern, 7
pm UK time. *Chat times are not changing for Daylight
Saving/Summer Time.*  Chat generally goes on for about 5 hours,
but can last as long as people want it to last.

Go into any Yahoo chat room and type /join HP:1 
For further info, see the Humongous BigFile, section 3.3.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/hbfile.html#33

Hope to see you there! 

 





From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Sun Jul  6 16:08:14 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 16:08:14 -0000
Subject: Clay Shirky on social software
In-Reply-To: <be7s5u+vd6t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <be9hhe+f9iq@eGroups.com>

I asked:
> > what is forking?

Rita replied:
> Someone else can give the technical UNIX definition of forking a 
> process. As far as us stupid users are concerned, it's named after 
a 
> fork in the road. In the document, when he spoke of trying to fork 
a 
> discussion into seperate 'social' and 'technical' discussions, he 
was 
> referring to what HPfGU did when it forked into separate Main List 
and 
> OT discussions.

Yes, I got that bit (though IMO both OT and the main list 
are 'social'; the 'technical' side is conducted off-list by the 
admin team).  It's this part near the end I didn't understand:

"Sometimes you can do soft forking. Live Journal does the best soft 
forking of any software I've ever seen, where the concepts of "you" 
and "your group" are pretty much intertwingled. The average size of 
a Live Journal group is about a dozen people. And the median size is 
around five."

As far as I can tell from the context, 'forking' means 'breaking the 
big group up into manageable little groups' and be 'good' forking he 
means 'breaking the big group up in a way that means you don't lose 
the benefits of the big group'.  But I'm not absolutely sure, and I 
certainly don't understand what it means in the context of Live 
Journal.  It sounds as if somehow LJ allows you to define a 
personal 'inner ring' without being exclusive about it, presumably 
because each person's ring can overlap with but does not need to be 
identical with another's.

I think this topic is fascinating in its own right, but it is also 
of obvious practical significance for HPFGU as our membership 
approaches the 10,000 mark.  How can we:

- continue to allow access by any member to the conversation of any 
other member, while

- permitting intimacy of scale so that access still is personal?

You can argue that some of the post-reading strategies recently 
discussed can achieve much of that, in effect by selecting posts by 
author rather than topic, but I'm not sure it works for everyone.

In fact I think for many people the above two goals are directly 
incompatible, because for them an essential component of a small-
group conversation is that outsiders *can't* listen in.

I know many here are LJ users - I am not (life is too short), but 
I'd like to hear, offlist if you prefer, how you think it works well 
for you and what it is about LJ that makes it work well.

Rita, thank you for answering my other questions.  I definitely like 
the Wikipedia idea.   IMO, in subjects like philosophy that are not 
driven by large collective investments (particle accelerators, 
telescopes and the like), a site such as Wikipedia should achieve 
near-optimum efficiency as a real-time academy, so the articles 
should in fact be the most advanced exposition to be found anywhere 
in the world.

David




From keegan at mcn.org  Sun Jul  6 16:11:57 2003
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 09:11:57 -0700
Subject: Umbridge in The Scotsman
In-Reply-To: <be7s5u+vd6t@eGroups.com>
References: <be7op5+r1eh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20030706091057.00367eb0@localhost>

http://www.news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=735522003

Wonderful article about the newest DADA teacher.  Gotta love the Scotsman.

Catherine in California



From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Sun Jul  6 16:29:13 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 16:29:13 -0000
Subject: air conditioning
In-Reply-To: <12b.2d6858c4.2c3720cb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <be9iop+a3l2@eGroups.com>

Lynda wrote:
> Silly question, this, but it bothers me.  If the houses on Privet 
Drive are 
> so "nice" and the owners so "particular," why do they have their 
windows open 
> on a hot day?  Don't houses like that have air conditioning?  I 
realize the 
> open windows help the plot a lot (letting owls in, letting Harry 
hear the news, 
> etc.) but still, if it's so hot, why not use a/c? 

Just adding my 2 knuts here.

I think part of the misunderstanding is the meaning of the 
word 'hot'.  The weather conditions of the first chapter of OOP 
would probably be in the mid-eighties Fahrenheit.  (That's high 
twenties C).  So when Canadians say, 'it's not the temperature per 
se, it's the humidity' and casually go on to mention that in Canada 
it doesn't get really hot, only in the high thirties, they are 
describing a different universe to Britan.  We *never* get 
temperatures in the high thirties. I think in most parts of the 
country the all-time record is around 90F/33C  In Britain 'hot' 
equates to 'pleasant' most of the time, and we like heat waves 
because they *allow* us to open our windows without freezing to 
death.

As somebody said, we are getting air conditioning more and more in 
offices now, because they do get sticky in summer, but in most homes 
even the two weeks of 'sweltering' weather (actually IMO we get more 
than two weeks of nice weather) still aren't really hot enough to 
make you wish you had it.

As for insects, sure, if you stay in the country you will get a few 
gnat bites in the summer.  In the cities, no.  Not worth bothering 
about, really.

David




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Sun Jul  6 16:34:05 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 16:34:05 -0000
Subject: School in Little Hangleton (was Pep Rallys ?)
In-Reply-To: <075e01c34359$efa627e0$2437d7aa@net>
Message-ID: <be9j1t+ro3j@eGroups.com>

Saitaina wrote:

> On the other hand my time at Riddle High, OR
> was spent watching the morose faces of the
> students and wondering how they could not
> care about their school.

Interesting name of your school, Saitaina.  Of course they were 
morose.

David




From gabolamx at yahoo.com.mx  Sun Jul  6 18:51:21 2003
From: gabolamx at yahoo.com.mx (Gabriela)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 18:51:21 -0000
Subject: Umbridge in The Scotsman/Poll
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20030706091057.00367eb0@localhost>
Message-ID: <be9r39+g07j@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Catherine Keegan 
<keegan at m...> wrote:
> http://www.news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=735522003
> 
> Wonderful article about the newest DADA teacher.  Gotta love the 
Scotsman.
> 
> Catherine in California

Hello, I've been de-lurking often lately :). I read the article and 
it was wonderful, but what really surprised me was the poll (on the 
right side of the page). According to the poll OoP is the best book 
of HP; even better than PoA. What do you think about this? I still 
can't decide where to place OoP on my list (I used to be a 3-4-1-2 
person) but definitely not before PoA because I still love Sirius to 
pieces. I would really like to know your feelings about this.

Gabriela
(who thinks she probably is a 3-4-5-1-2 person now) ;)




From terryljames at hotmail.com  Sun Jul  6 22:39:43 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 17:39:43 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Size of HW (was British school system)
Message-ID: <BAY8-F39t6Y3h19KZ9a0000a433@hotmail.com>




>From: "psychic_serpent" <psychic_serpent at yahoo.com>
>>
>--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Terry James"
><terryljames at h...> wrote:
> > I've never really understood this assumption.  I always assumed
> > that, for instance, there are several first-year Gryffindor
> > Herbology classes, not just the one that we happen to see with
> > Harry.
>
>What would give you this impression?  There's absolutely no
>indication that there are Gryffindor students in Harry's year that
>we don't know about. >

snip

,' but there's no reason to believe that there are unnamed
>Gryffindors who've been in the same year with Harry all this time,
>living in other dormitories and taking classes at other times.  The
>text simply does not support this assertion.
>
>--Barb

The enormous dining room packed with students; the "hundreds" of squashy 
purple sleeping bags that
D-dore conjured up; the "fleet" of boats and "line" of horseless 
carriages...all of the descriptions of all the students as a group really 
give me an image of lots of kids.  If there are ten kids to a year, then 
there are only seventy Gryffindors; so either there are only 280 kids at 
Hogwarts, or Gryffindor is a very small house.  Or, Harry's year is very 
small for some reason (lots of people killed by DEs?)  But since it's never 
spelled out that Harry has a small year, or G. has a small house, I just 
drew on my own experience at school.  There were many kids at my school who 
were in my "class" (that is, my year) but not in any of my "classes".  I 
never even knew their names.

Terry LJ

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Sun Jul  6 22:43:44 2003
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:43:44 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Clay Shirky on social software
In-Reply-To: <be9hhe+f9iq@eGroups.com>
References: <be7s5u+vd6t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3F0932C0.2556.207FC6@localhost>

On 6 Jul 2003 at 16:08, David wrote:

> You can argue that some of the post-reading strategies recently 
> discussed can achieve much of that, in effect by selecting posts by 
> author rather than topic, but I'm not sure it works for everyone.

I also wonder what they do to the rest of the group. When people seek out 
the posters they enjoy reading using the search engines, over time, it 
seems to me you can end up with very cliquish behaviour on the list. 
Where certain cores of people are discussing things among themselves, 
and a large group of people circle around listening, but are never heard 
because they're not on peoples lists of worthwhile posters - and never will 
be because those people are not reading what they have to say.

I can certainly understand why people need to use certain strategies to 
read such a high volume list, but I think there is a potential for real 
problems there.

And I wonder how many people even saw my post on the astronomical 
errors in Order of the Phoenix, which took me three solid hours to write (-8 

Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in 
common. They
don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit
the views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the
facts that need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From pinguthegreek at pinguthegreek.net  Sun Jul  6 22:48:52 2003
From: pinguthegreek at pinguthegreek.net (Pinguthegreek)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 23:48:52 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Size of HW (was British school system)
References: <BAY8-F39t6Y3h19KZ9a0000a433@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <019401c34410$c9118540$c95fc487@personal>


The enormous dining room packed with students; the "hundreds" of squashy 
purple sleeping bags that
D-dore conjured up; the "fleet" of boats and "line" of horseless 
carriages...all of the descriptions of all the students as a group really 
give me an image of lots of kids.  If there are ten kids to a year, then 
there are only seventy Gryffindors; so either there are only 280 kids at 
Hogwarts, or Gryffindor is a very small house.  Or, Harry's year is very 
small for some reason (lots of people killed by DEs?)  But since it's never 
spelled out that Harry has a small year, or G. has a small house, I just 
drew on my own experience at school.  There were many kids at my school who 
were in my "class" (that is, my year) but not in any of my "classes".  I 
never even knew their names.

The point is that most private schools in the UK are not so big. I am sure that JKR would have made it clearer by now if Harry's year were bigger.

Also, if the boats are small, you still would need a fair few for 70. 

And the carriages only take 4 or so. 

You just have to bear in mind that Hogwarts is like a UK boarding school 

Michelle







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Jul  6 23:05:17 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 23:05:17 -0000
Subject: Astronomical Errors (was:Clay Shirky on social software
In-Reply-To: <3F0932C0.2556.207FC6@localhost>
Message-ID: <bea9vd+h277@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun Hately" <drednort at a...> 
wrote:
 
> Where certain cores of people are discussing things among 
> themselves, and a large group of people circle around listening,
> but are never heard because they're not on peoples lists of 
> worthwhile posters - and never will be because those people are not 
> reading what they have to say.

Perhaps they will be added to the list of worthwhile posters when 
recommended by a known worthwhile posters who DOES read their posts, 
or from becoming known in chat..
> 
> And I wonder how many people even saw my post on the astronomical 
> errors in Order of the Phoenix, which took me three solid hours to
> write (-8 

I not only saw it, I read it, but what is there to say? The 
Potterverse is in an alternate universe with wildly different 
astronomy, as well as calendars. I think no one has yet found any 
year in history with all the Full Moons matching the ones in any one 
of the HP books, year after year September 1st is on a Sunday, and I 
think someone found one of the books has two Mondays in a row.   




From pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk  Sun Jul  6 23:05:59 2003
From: pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk (bluesqueak)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 23:05:59 -0000
Subject: Astronomy and dates WAS Re: Clay Shirky on social software
In-Reply-To: <3F0932C0.2556.207FC6@localhost>
Message-ID: <beaa0n+l093@eGroups.com>

Shaun wrote:
> And I wonder how many people even saw my post on the astronomical 
> errors in Order of the Phoenix, which took me three solid hours to 
write (-8 

I saw it. I just don't have enough astronomy to reply to it. I can 
tell the difference between a star, a planet and a moon, but that's 
about it [grin].

Though I suspect that the errors in the position of the planets in 
the night sky may be deliberate. You can, after all, tell *exactly* 
what the date is from accurate planetary/stellar positions - and I 
think JKR is making her dates vague on purpose.

Look at the way the school term always starts on September 1st, and 
yet it's always a Monday the day after they arrive on the train...

Pip




From jillily3g at yahoo.com  Sun Jul  6 23:15:00 2003
From: jillily3g at yahoo.com (Beth)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 23:15:00 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter sermon?
In-Reply-To: <007401c3436b$caf918f0$859ccdd1@RVotaw>
Message-ID: <beaahk+or5k@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Richelle Votaw" <rvotaw at i...>
wrote:
> I just returned from my church organization's yearly statewide camp
meeting (I'm Pentecostal) 

You've got me soooo curious. Completely showing my ignorance and
predjudice here (without really meaning to be either), are there many
Pentecostals who've read any of the books? How do you answer fellow
members who do shred the books without having read them? 

I've come across great defensive pieces about the books, but there is
still so much conflict among Christians. I think that is a small part
of what drew me to these sites in the first place: so I could
thoroughly understand them and answer naysayers (and 'satiable
curiosity ;o))

Btw, I am now Presbyterian, having grown up in the Christian Reformed
Church, one of the few denominations that still does not ordain women.
(And is mostly located in areas of Dutch heritage.)

Beth




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Sun Jul  6 23:25:24 2003
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:25:24 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Astronomical Errors (was:Clay Shirky on social software
In-Reply-To: <bea9vd+h277@eGroups.com>
References: <3F0932C0.2556.207FC6@localhost>
Message-ID: <3F093C84.27398.46A5C9@localhost>

On 6 Jul 2003 at 23:05, Catlady (Rita Prince Winston) wrote:

> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun Hately" <drednort at a...> 
> wrote:
>
> Perhaps they will be added to the list of worthwhile posters when 
> recommended by a known worthwhile posters who DOES read their posts, 
> or from becoming known in chat..

Yes, could happen - my point is though, that I think these things are 
concerned and as I don't think most people want to see the list become 
cliquish, it's something worth considering. 

> I not only saw it, I read it, but what is there to say? The 
> Potterverse is in an alternate universe with wildly different 
> astronomy, as well as calendars. I think no one has yet found any 
> year in history with all the Full Moons matching the ones in any one 
> of the HP books, year after year September 1st is on a Sunday, and I 
> think someone found one of the books has two Mondays in a row.   

Yes, but the thing is previous posts on the astronomical issues in the other 
books have attracted comment. Some people do seem to consider this is a 
real issue for some reason. I'm not one of them - but as someone who did 
train as an astronomer, working out these details is something I can do for 
those who are interested (the stuff in that post wasn't actually that 
complicated - mostly just basic positioning - it gets complicated when I try 
to work out how bright Mars actually was on a particular night). It doesn't 
worry me if it doesn't get much comment - I'm certain the issue will come 
up at some point, and I've done the work now.

Incidentally - August 27 this year should send the centaurs insane. Mars 
will be brighter in our skies than it has been in at least 50,000 years - 
probably closer to 600,000 years.

Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in 
common. They
don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit
the views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the
facts that need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From andie at knownet.net  Mon Jul  7 00:29:31 2003
From: andie at knownet.net (grindieloe)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 00:29:31 -0000
Subject: UK Edition
Message-ID: <beaetb+ds5o@eGroups.com>

I have a question for US residents that bought a UK OOP edition... 
Where did you buy yours from? I really want to get one, but I'm not 
sure the best route to go... :)

Your input in appreciated...

grindieloe :)




From debmclain at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  7 00:42:45 2003
From: debmclain at yahoo.com (Debbie)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 00:42:45 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter Party for Grownups
In-Reply-To: <be6r8i+7fd1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <beafm5+brqb@eGroups.com>

Oh, man..... I just read about one fan's adult party. It was 
phenomenal! There were pictures and everything! She had specialty 
drinks, food, quidditch game, unbelievable! Of course, now I can't 
remember where I saw it. It took her two years to get it ready - from 
the invits, to totally redecorating her walls with fabric that looks 
like castle blocks, and more. 

Wait, let me check my bookmarks.... you know... I can't find it 
anywhere. I remember I stumbled upon it. It was a link on a web site 
I don't think I usually read. 

Sorry, wish I could help more than tantalize you. I already tried 
some various searches, but to no avail. Sorry!

-Debbie

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "mtpm123" 
<maryteresamilly at a...> wrote:
> Hi, I'm new to the group and I hope someone can help me. I'll be 
> throwing a Harry Potter party for adults and need some ideas. All I 
> can find are ideas for children's parties. I can use a few of these 
> but just wondering if any of you had given a Harry Potter party. 
> Thanks for the help. mtpm123




From yyssww2001 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  7 01:30:30 2003
From: yyssww2001 at yahoo.com (yyssww2001)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 01:30:30 -0000
Subject: OOP: on "seeing death" (was Re: main list survival strategy)
In-Reply-To: <bdvbng+2cms@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <beaifm+qq64@eGroups.com>

> I think that this is probably what JKR was thinking when she 
planned 
> to put the Thestrals after the death of Cedric; that 'to see death' 
> is to experience the death of someone you know, and to understand 
> that they are never, ever coming back.

Well, he didn't see the thestral when he was going back from hogwarts 
at the end of his 4th year. I remember (although i'm not sure of the 
exact words) harry saw the horseless carriages but did not seem to 
see what pulled them ..




From heidit at netbox.com  Mon Jul  7 01:42:25 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 21:42:25 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Harry Potter Party for Grownups
In-Reply-To: <beafm5+brqb@eGroups.com>
References: <beafm5+brqb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1057542152.30A0CCB0@s5.dngr.org>

I think this is something we posted at the-leaky-cauldron.org in the 2-3 
weeks before the release of ootp...

Heidi
Team TLC
Team Nimbus-2003
FictionAlley.org
On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 8:42PM -0500, Debbie wrote:
> Real-To:  "Debbie" <debmclain at yahoo.com>
>
> Oh, man..... I just read about one fan's adult party. It was
> phenomenal! There were pictures and everything! She had specialty
> drinks, food, quidditch game, unbelievable! Of course, now I can't
> remember where I saw it. It took her two years to get it ready - from
> the invits, to totally redecorating her walls with fabric that looks
> like castle blocks, and more.
>
> Wait, let me check my bookmarks.... you know... I can't find it
> anywhere. I remember I stumbled upon it. It was a link on a web site
> I don't think I usually read.
>
> Sorry, wish I could help more than tantalize you. I already tried
> some various searches, but to no avail. Sorry!
>
> -Debbie
>
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "mtpm123"
> <maryteresamilly at a...> wrote:
>>  Hi, I'm new to the group and I hope someone can help me. I'll be
>>  throwing a Harry Potter party for adults and need some ideas. All I
>>  can find are ideas for children's parties. I can use a few of these
>>  but just wondering if any of you had given a Harry Potter party.
>>  Thanks for the help. mtpm123
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
>
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>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin 
> Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
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>
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From crabtree at ktc.com  Mon Jul  7 01:47:18 2003
From: crabtree at ktc.com (Jo)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 01:47:18 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter Party for Grownups
In-Reply-To: <1057542152.30A0CCB0@s5.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <beajf6+64uf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Heidi Tandy" <heidit at n...> 
wrote:
> I think this is something we posted at the-leaky-cauldron.org in 
the 2-3 
> weeks before the release of ootp...
> 
<snip>

I don't come out of hiding very often, but I did remember reading it 
from the Leaky Cauldron so I looked in their archives. It came from 
http://www.britta.com/hogwarts/index.html
Hope this helps.

I am now going back to hide behind my keyboard.

Professor Phlash
AKA Jo




From boggles at earthlink.net  Mon Jul  7 01:50:33 2003
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 20:50:33 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Pep Rallys ?
In-Reply-To: <014101c3433e$0d7dd6d0$c95fc487@personal>
References: <014101c3433e$0d7dd6d0$c95fc487@personal>
Message-ID: <p05200f00bb2e7f63e141@[192.168.1.100]>

At 10:40 PM +0100 7/5/03, Pinguthegreek wrote:
>Hi everyone....
>
>I'm just watching the start of Varsity Blues.  I just wondered, are 
>pep rallies for real or do people really get enthusiatic ?

Oh, yes.  Especially where American-style football (with the shoulder 
pads and the pointy-ended ball) is a big topic of conversation - 
large parts of the South, the Midwest, and almost all of Texas, for 
example.

Some schools throw pep rallies for other sports (basketball and 
baseball, especially right before a title game), but the traditional 
pep rally is right before a football game.  In the South, they're 
usually held right before each game; in other places, it might only 
be for homecoming and the last game of the season.

The first high school I attended (in Mississippi) had mandatory pep 
rallies - each class was shortened by five minutes, and we had a 
half-hour of pep rally in the the gym at the end of the day.  The 
band played a few songs, the cheerleaders cheered, the football 
players strutted around and led a chant of Words of Two Syllables Or 
Less, and the students sat in the stands and made a lot of noise 
because the day was almost over.  Once, for the big game against our 
crosstown rival, one of the assistant principals dressed in a 
military uniform and slew a stuffed animal.

My second high school was a math and science academy, without a 
football team, so we didn't have many pep rallies.  We did have one 
for our track team, during which we all dressed in our lab coats and 
threw pencils at each other; it was not a great success, and was not 
repeated.  We had better things to do than worry about 'school 
spirit'.

The high school I currently teach at has optional pep rallies before 
school on the days of games.  I've never been to one, but I am given 
to understand that the step club, band, orchestra, cheerleading 
squad, drill team, dance squad, and football team have been known to 
perform.  Once a year a group of teachers performs as a drill team 
for a pep rally, usually for the game against our cross-district 
rival.  This seems at least marginally healthier than slaying a 
stuffed animal.  Since attendance is optional and they don't get out 
of class for it, the students don't seem to care as much as the ones 
from my school, but the ones who do choose to go are pretty 
enthusiastic - at least, they arrive at my class out of breath.


>What is the tradition of them and is there a set pattern of what 
>happens at them ?

They're intended to get the team "psyched up" for the game.  The 
pattern depends on the school, although you can usually assume that 
students will sit in bleachers, the team will make an appearance at 
some point, and the cheerleaders will lead the students in various 
cheers.  If the school had a band, the band will usually play the 
fight song and the cheerleaders will try to get the students to sing 
along.


-- 

  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles(at)earthlink.net
"It is not knowledge, but the act of learning, not possession but the 
act of getting there, which grants the greatest enjoyment. "
	- Gauss, in a Letter to Bolyai, 1808.



From jillily3g at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  7 02:38:02 2003
From: jillily3g at yahoo.com (Beth)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 02:38:02 -0000
Subject: UK Edition
In-Reply-To: <beaetb+ds5o@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <beamea+69fh@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "grindieloe" <andie at k...> 
wrote:
> I have a question for US residents that bought a UK OOP edition... 
> Where did you buy yours from? I really want to get one, but I'm 
not 
> sure the best route to go... :)
> 
> Your input in appreciated...
> 
> grindieloe :)

I bought mine from amazon.uk when I read on The Leaky Cauldron that 
they were available for half price (?8.49) However, the currency 
converter shows that the cost in US$="14.1398" :o) When you add 
airmail, plus regular shipping charges.... Well, let's just say I'm 
glad I love it!

Beth


(btw, GulPlum, thanks!)
>As for the GBP sign, on a Windows machine press your ALT key (left 
>of the space bar) and 0163 on your numeric keypad (with the ALT key 
>down). Of course, we Brits only have to hit [SHIFT] + 3. :-) 

>--
>GulPlum AKA Richard, full of useless information as always 




From crabtree at ktc.com  Mon Jul  7 02:52:54 2003
From: crabtree at ktc.com (Jo)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 02:52:54 -0000
Subject: Pep Rallys ?
In-Reply-To: <p05200f00bb2e7f63e141@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <beana6+qkvn@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Jennifer Boggess Ramon 
<boggles at e...> wrote:
> At 10:40 PM +0100 7/5/03, Pinguthegreek wrote:
> >Hi everyone....
> >
> >I'm just watching the start of Varsity Blues.  I just wondered, 
are 
> >pep rallies for real or do people really get enthusiatic ?
> 
> Oh, yes.  Especially where American-style football (with the 
shoulder 
> pads and the pointy-ended ball) is a big topic of conversation - 
> large parts of the South, the Midwest, and almost all of Texas, for 
> example.
> 
<snip>

Having ventured out once already today, I can't believe I am doing 
this again so soon.  Since Texas has been mentioned I thought I would 
give you my perspective on pep rallies.

I have lived in the "Piney Woods" of East Texas, the "Llano Estacado" 
in the Panhandle, and the "Hill Country" of Central Texas. I have 
either attended or taught in schools (two of which I was a middle 
school cheerleading sponsor) from the smallest to among the largest 
in the state. I thought I could give you my unique view of the pep 
rally.  

The schools I have been in usually make pep rallies manditory for the 
students in that school.  Small town schools often have High School, 
Middle School, and Elementary Schools on ajoining campuses.  
Depending on the views of the administration, younger students may be 
invited to attend.  For the last couple of years the administrators 
in my school felt that it would boost school spirit for the 
elementary students to be there so it was strongly suggested that we 
take our classes to the pep rallies.  Before we were invited to the 
Homecoming pep rally and maybe one other.

In some of my former schools the band played two or three numbers 
while the cheerleaders, twirlers, and drill teams alternated between 
cheers and dances.  At some point there is a brief speech by a coach, 
teacher, administrator, team captain, or a loyal fan. My husband was 
asked to make the speech several times during the years he helped 
broadcast the games over the radio.  In every pep rally I have been 
to there is some sort of spirit award - usually a spirit stick.  This 
is where each class tries to yell louder than any other class. This 
is also usually the only time anyone (other than the cheerleaders) 
actually cheer.  They may clap and yell for the players, after a 
cheer, or for the speech, or they may laugh and hollar when there is 
a skit, but the cheerleaders are usually on their on for the 
cheers.   

The school I am in now does not have a strong band so they beat on 
the drums when the cheerleaders want people to yell, and then they 
play the school song for the football players to leave.  What the 
band lacks in power, the cheerleaders make up for with rock music 
blasted into the gym from monster speakers.  Last year we even had a 
local rock band of high school kids play at a pep rally.

There are always kids who are really excited by the pep rallies and 
kids who sit with their arms crossed over their chests sulking.  
Being an elementary teacher, I can tell you that the younger ones 
have a blast.  However, it can be a dangerous event.  For some reason 
our cheerleaders have decided that throwing candy increases spirit. 
It definitely increases noise level and black eyes. 

Professor Phlash
AKA Jo

-who has now posted three times in the last six or eight months.





From rvotaw at i-55.com  Mon Jul  7 02:54:20 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 21:54:20 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] UK Edition
References: <beaetb+ds5o@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <006201c34433$110c3760$5a9fcdd1@RVotaw>

grindieloe wrote:

> I have a question for US residents that bought a UK OOP edition... 
> Where did you buy yours from? I really want to get one, but I'm not 
> sure the best route to go... :)

I bought mine from Amazon.com/uk.  I bought the adult edition, which I'm reading now.  (I can't tell you what a big kick I got out of "pyjamas."  Stupid American, I know.)

Richelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From rvotaw at i-55.com  Mon Jul  7 03:02:52 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 22:02:52 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Harry Potter sermon?
References: <beaahk+or5k@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <007701c34434$420e56d0$5a9fcdd1@RVotaw>

Beth wrote:

> You've got me soooo curious. Completely showing my ignorance and
> predjudice here (without really meaning to be either), are there many
> Pentecostals who've read any of the books? How do you answer fellow
> members who do shred the books without having read them?

I didn't think there were any (except me!) but I've already found one more
on here.  So who knows how many there really are out there.  When I get
funny looks if people see my HP keychain or books or folder or whatever else
I happen to have, I tell them not to knock it until they've tried it.  They
can't actually find debate it if they haven't read it, can they?
Unfortunately, some of them refuse to do so.  So then I start on a different
angle.  I ask what they think of Lord of the Rings.  They usually admire it,
great Christian author, etc.  Christian book stores even sell it.  I ask
them what Gandalf is.  A wizard.   Does he have a wand?  No, a staff.  Same
difference.  And on it goes.  Then we move on to fairy tales.  Cinderella.
What is the Fairy Godmother?  A nice name for a witch.  Sword in the Stone.
What is Merlin?  A wizard.  Beauty and the Beast--plenty of sorcery there.
And it goes on and on.  Sometimes they at least start second guessing
themselves.

If I get through to them there, I head for the Christian symbolisms in HP.
Sure, it could all be a coincidence, but it sounds really good to spring on
them.  I had my friend's jaw drop a dozen times when I told her some of
them.  She's convinced.

On a similar note, someone in New Orleans tried to stage a book burning June
21st but for some reason nobody wanted to go. :)  My mom said if they want
to burn something, why don't they burn some porn magazines or something
that's actually bad.

Richelle





From blackcat93 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jul  7 04:06:00 2003
From: blackcat93 at sbcglobal.net (aliceinchains520)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 04:06:00 -0000
Subject: origins of avada kedavra
Message-ID: <bearj8+v2ds@eGroups.com>

This is my first post, so forgive me if I've committed a heinous 
error.

Avada kedavra is from the Aramaic meaning "may the thing be 
destoyed." I found this interesting.  This information is from an 
article on Judaic Mythology.  The whole article is at: 
www.pantheon.org/areas/mythology/asia/judaic/articles.html

Go check it out! It's really cool.

-AIC520




From bboy_mn at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  7 04:15:40 2003
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 04:15:40 -0000
Subject: Size of HW (was British school system)
In-Reply-To: <BAY8-F39t6Y3h19KZ9a0000a433@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <beas5c+c8u2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Terry James"
<terryljames at h...> wrote:
> 
> The enormous dining room ...; the "hundreds" of squashy 
> purple sleeping bags ..; the "fleet" of boats and "line" of 
> horseless carriages...all of the descriptions of all the students as 
> a group really  give me an image of lots of kids.  ...edited..
> 
> Terry LJ


bboy_mn:

Conclusions we've reach so far-

1.) it's impossible to accurately determine the number of student by
any means. Believe me, we have approached it from every possible angle
and it simply can not be accurately determined. 

Although, I personally suspect that enrollment tyically ranges for 600
to 800, with low end being 400 to 600, and peak enrollment being 800
to 1,000. 

2.) JKR said it was about a thousand, but I believe she wasn't stating
an exact number but indicating the general size of the school; more
than hundreds, less than thousands. So even with her statement, we are
wrong to conclude 1,000.000000000 students in the school. Again, it
simply indicates the general size of the school. 

3.) The houses are not likely to be divided equally, and the latest
book re-enforces that by indicating that Hufflepuff has no
requirements, Slytherin takes the cunning, Ravenclaw takes the clever,
Gryffindor takes the brave, and Hufflepuff takes all the rest. 

It seems reasonable that there are fewer diabolically cunning people,
so Slytherin would be small. It would seem that there would be fewer
substantually brave people, so Gryffindor would be small. However,
there are a lot of extremely intelligent people, so Ravenclaw would be
medium, and Hufflepuff taking everyone else would be large.

4.) No matter how you tweek the numbers, Harry's class is small, but
that is no guarantee that every single person has been accounted for.
There is some suspicious based on Lupin's Bogart class that there are
a couple of un-named students. And unlikely that the size of Harry's
class can be used to determine the size of all the other houses, 
classes, and/or years.

5.) JKR is not real accurate when it comes to numbers, and the numbers
she has constructed were never intended to be analyzed to the depth
that we here are analyzed them. 

Just a thought.

bboy_mn





From trinity61us at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  7 04:42:25 2003
From: trinity61us at yahoo.com (alex fox)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 21:42:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Harry Potter sermon?
In-Reply-To: <007401c3436b$caf918f0$859ccdd1@RVotaw>
Message-ID: <20030707044225.60510.qmail@web14903.mail.yahoo.com>

That is amazing that he didn't trash it! Even my boss, who is rather liberal, and borrowed the movie "Dogma" from me , has a "problem" with HP. When asked if he had read the books, or seen the movies, of couse he said "No". I special ordered the book "God, the Devil, and Harry Potter: A Christian Minister's Defence of the Beloved Books" and as soon as I am done with it, I will be loaning it to him. LOL.
 
Alex Fox-Black

Richelle Votaw <rvotaw at i-55.com> wrote:
I just returned from my church organization's yearly statewide camp meeting (I'm Pentecostal) and can't help sharing this sermon.  As soon as the minister mentioned Harry Potter, I groaned.  I just knew he would demonize it and tear it apart.  Never, of course, having actually read it.  But he didn't go nearly that far.  In fact, he said four times (I counted!) that he was NOT lamblasting Harry Potter.  He quite obviously had not read the books, but most of his information was taken from the recent issue of Time magazine that focused on why kids like Harry.  

His basic message was that the reason Harry Potter is so successful is that kids need someone to be their hero, something to believe in, something to hope for.  And that Harry Potter is there for kids when the church isn't.  

I did get the giggles once during the sermon, when he mentioned Professor Lipton, the werewolf.    And I kept hissing "Rowling, it's Rowling" when he kept saying "Rawlings."

Just had to share that, as it wasn't what I was expecting when he started out with "Five books, two movies, etc etc."  

Richelle--who just bought a new Chevrolet Impala, and now insists that the Impala emblem is actually Harry's patronus. :)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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From annemehr at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  7 04:47:41 2003
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 04:47:41 -0000
Subject: Clay Shirky on social software
In-Reply-To: <3F0932C0.2556.207FC6@localhost>
Message-ID: <beau1d+669s@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun Hately" 
<drednort at a...> wrote:
> On 6 Jul 2003 at 16:08, David wrote:
> 
> > You can argue that some of the post-reading strategies recently 
> > discussed can achieve much of that, in effect by selecting posts 
by 
> > author rather than topic, but I'm not sure it works for everyone.
> 
> I also wonder what they do to the rest of the group. When people 
seek out 
> the posters they enjoy reading using the search engines, over 
time, it 
> seems to me you can end up with very cliquish behaviour on the 
list. 
> Where certain cores of people are discussing things among 
themselves, 
> and a large group of people circle around listening, but are never 
heard 
> because they're not on peoples lists of worthwhile posters - and 
never will 
> be because those people are not reading what they have to say.
> 
> I can certainly understand why people need to use certain 
strategies to 
> read such a high volume list, but I think there is a potential for 
real 
> problems there.

I'm not too worried just now (listen to me, I'm 2000 posts behind on 
the main list...), because I figure both the memebership and post 
volume are bound to drop.  After all, some will decide this group is 
just not their cup of tea, and soon enough the avalanche of messages 
will slack off as the rest of us pause to dig deeper than our first 
thoughts on OoP.  I hope people will not be unsubbing just because 
there are too many messages.  Hang in there, it will get easier!  
And keep in mind, just because someone's message may not get a reply 
doesn't actually mean that no one was interested -- they just may 
not have had anything to add or argue with, or these days, they may 
have seen much the same idea already posted in the avalanche!

I just think it's too soon to worry about changing the parameters of 
the group.

Annemehr
off to the main list to see how much further behind I've gotten




From phoenix_suzaku18 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  7 08:11:41 2003
From: phoenix_suzaku18 at yahoo.com (Suzaku)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 01:11:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: HP tough quizes
Message-ID: <20030707081141.76959.qmail@web12902.mail.yahoo.com>

::de-lurks::
 Hello, everybody. I've been in search of a difficult Harry Potter quiz. For an obsessed adult like me, who can quote almost every character from memory. (I specialize in differentiating between Gred and Forge ^_-.)
 So if anyone has a link to a *really* tough quiz, please let me know... (Since I claim to know so much -- too much -- I should probably create my own quiz. Hmmm.)  
Thanks everyone.
-Suzaku the Phoenix-
(Who finds herself liking the hp books in this order: 3-1-4-5-2)


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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon Jul  7 09:52:53 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 09:52:53 -0000
Subject: Clay Shirky on social software
In-Reply-To: <3F0932C0.2556.207FC6@localhost>
Message-ID: <bebftl+lbfu@eGroups.com>

Shaun wrote:
> When people seek out 
> the posters they enjoy reading using the search engines, over time, 
it 
> seems to me you can end up with very cliquish behaviour on the 
list. 
> Where certain cores of people are discussing things among 
themselves, 
> and a large group of people circle around listening, but are never 
heard 
> because they're not on peoples lists of worthwhile posters - and 
never will 
> be because those people are not reading what they have to say.

That is a risk.  The way it is mitigated for me is that I read up and 
down the threads of posts, so new people catch my eye that way.  
Ultimately it's the attitude that goes with the list-reading strategy 
that counts.

However, I think the bottom line of the original article was that 
cliques are inevitable and attempts to thwart them are 
counterproductive.   The trick is to try to limit their damaging 
effects.

What I think would do wonders for list morale, but doesn't exist in 
Yahoo, is for an automatic record to be kept when someone reads your 
post.  That way, you can see if people are reading your posts without 
forcing them to massively bump up list volume or expecting them to 
engage you offlist.

Comprehensive and well-reasoned posts (as Shaun's usually are) go 
unanswered because, well, there is nothing more to say, whereas "Hey, 
I hope my Harry and Ginny get together shes what he needs LOL" is 
guaranteed a response.

Annemehr expressed concern that it is too early to start tinkering 
with the list structure.

Absolutely.  This is blue skies thinking about the future, not a 
proposal for action now.

I do think it does us good to have our collective thinking 
stimulated, and Dumbledad's link was excellent for that.

David




From naama_gat at hotmail.com  Mon Jul  7 10:29:56 2003
From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naamagatus)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 10:29:56 -0000
Subject: Clay Shirky on social software
In-Reply-To: <bebftl+lbfu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bebi34+ala9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "David" <dfrankiswork at n...> 
wrote:
<snip> 
> What I think would do wonders for list morale, but doesn't exist in 
> Yahoo, is for an automatic record to be kept when someone reads 
your 
> post.  That way, you can see if people are reading your posts 
without 
> forcing them to massively bump up list volume or expecting them to 
> engage you offlist.

It depends on individual psychology. I would be doubly insulted that 
somebody read my post and wasn't interested enough to reply! I prefer 
to think that the post wasn't noticed, rather than read and tossed 
away.

> 
> Comprehensive and well-reasoned posts (as Shaun's usually are) go 
> unanswered because, well, there is nothing more to say, 
whereas "Hey, I hope my Harry and Ginny get together shes what he > 
needs LOL" is guaranteed a response.
> 

I keep saying that to myself <g>.



Naama




From terryljames at hotmail.com  Mon Jul  7 13:25:13 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 08:25:13 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Astronomical Errors (was:Clay Shirky on social
 software
Message-ID: <BAY8-F60RSK3RpHYjUr000907e4@hotmail.com>




>From: "Shaun Hately" <drednort at alphalink.com.au>
>
>Incidentally - August 27 this year should send the centaurs insane. Mars
>will be brighter in our skies than it has been in at least 50,000 years -
>probably closer to 600,000 years.
>

Yeeks.  Don't tell me what this means for RL....

Terry LJ

_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*  
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From terryljames at hotmail.com  Mon Jul  7 13:51:32 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 08:51:32 -0500
Subject: Christians & HP (side order of LOTR)
Message-ID: <BAY8-F9PTQxHgnfOHrd0002cfe9@hotmail.com>


>--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Richelle Votaw" <rvotaw at i...>
>wrote:
> > I just returned from my church organization's yearly statewide camp
>meeting (I'm Pentecostal)


>From: "Beth" <jillily3g at yahoo.com>
>
>You've got me soooo curious. Completely showing my ignorance and
>predjudice here (without really meaning to be either), are there many
>Pentecostals who've read any of the books? How do you answer fellow
>members who do shred the books without having read them?

Well, until Richelle posted that, I thought I was the only one!  ;)  A few 
of my friends are open-minded, but don't like to read, so they would never 
sit down with books like these.  Some who do
like to read are convinced, based on what they've "heard", that the books 
are Satanic, and if you try to defend them, obviously you are possessed 
also.  Apparently there was some kind of joke interview with JKR on the 
internet.  It has certainly made the rounds, and you cannot convince people 
not to take it seriously.

Mostly, though, the majority don't really care.  They think the books are 
probably bad for you, but so is pornography, and drug abuse, and alcoholism, 
and etc., and in terms of protecting their kids, there's a lot higher up on 
the list than HP.

If anybody starts with me, I ask them if they've read any of the books.  The 
answer is always "No."  Then, if I'm feeling kind, I advise them to do so 
before they start criticizing.  If I'm feeling particularly un-Christian, I 
hold them down forcibly and give them all the main themes of all the books, 
with quotes and chapter summaries, until they agree with me just to get me 
to shut up.

On a related note, my mother thought Lord of the Rings was !Evil until I 
dragged her to see the movie. Then, under pressure, she admitted to liking 
"everything except the fighting, the monsters, the guys in the hoods, the 
bridge falling, the guy dying, the flaming eyeball, and the other guy 
dying."  She did finally realize the overall themes were positive.

The problem with HP is that you can use the movies to attract people to read 
the books--I hooked my brother this way--but you can't use the movies as a 
substitute for the books, to explain why people love them so much.  Just 
MHO, of course, but the movies lose so much of the subtleties that we love 
to discuss, and non-readers like my DH watch them and say, OK, that was 
good, but how can you spend so much time analyzing that?  It's a kid's 
story.

What do you do with people who have never and will never read the books?  
Especially if you live with them.  :)  How do those of you who live with 
non-HPers cope?

Terry LJ

_________________________________________________________________
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From timregan at microsoft.com  Mon Jul  7 15:14:05 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 15:14:05 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, America!
In-Reply-To: <be3frb+l8id@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bec2nt+hp81@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Haggridd" 
<jkusalavagemd at y...> wrote:
> Happy Birthday to U.S.
> Happy Birthday to U.S.
> Happy Birthday, dear United States of America,
> Happy Birthday to U.S.

But if you do change your mind, and want to return to your loving 
Queen, I'm sure we'd welcome you back.

Cheers,

Dumbledad




From timregan at microsoft.com  Mon Jul  7 15:33:12 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 15:33:12 -0000
Subject: Clay Shirky on social software
In-Reply-To: <be7s5u+vd6t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bec3ro+t8n4@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter "Catlady" wrote:
> Many to Manys before the Internet -- CB 
> radio in the 70s, ham radio for a geeky clique, mimeographed 
> publications CALLED M2Ms (short for Many to Many) and APAs, 
> even the ancient form of the Round Robin manuscript, that is 
> passed from  member to member by hand or post and each person 
> writes on it before passing it to the next. CB was destroyed by 
> problems of scale and the others were too inconvenient to 
> become popular. 


Sorry for ducking out of my own thread - I went for a really 
beautiful camping long-weekend to Orcas Island, one of the San Juan 
Islands in the Puget Sound. I spent most of it sat with my wife in 
the shade of a tree, with my dog asleep at my feet, reading the 
Sandman graphic novels, gazing up over the stunning scenery, as the 
kids played nearby on the beach - it was heaven.

Back to the plot.

Catlady ? do you have references to any of these? In particular how 
did M2Ms work ? who kept the membership list and how did it scale? 
What are APAs? How ancient is a Round Robin Manuscript, and how is 
membership maintained for them? Again, nobody expects the Spanish 
Inquisition.

Cheers,

Dumbledad.





From Audra1976 at aol.com  Mon Jul  7 16:23:53 2003
From: Audra1976 at aol.com (Audra1976 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 12:23:53 -0400
Subject: Radcliffe asks for donations to NAS for his birthday
Message-ID: <452EB000.043ECD21.022D3A68@aol.com>

As if I needed another reason to love Daniel Radcliffe...

As someone who works with Autistic children and their families, I was thrilled to have just read that in lieu of birthday presents, Daniel Radcliffe wants his family, friends, and fans to send a donation in his name to the National Autistic Society, a British organization that supports Autism research and families of people with Autism.  If you donate, you will also be entered in a raffle for Daniel Radcliffe and Harry Potter related prizes.  The donations in Dan's name are being taken up until July 23, 2003, at this site: 

http://www.justgiving.com/pages/?id=GGG/1783

Just remember if you are not from the UK, that you are donating in pounds, which is equivalant to a higher amount of US dollars, so do your conversions first!  You can also send snail mail donations (checks), but make sure you specify that it is for Daniel Radcliffe's birthday as well as giving your own name if you want to be included in the raffle:

Rebecca Lloyd
Head of Direct Marketing
National Autistic Society
393 City Road
London EC1V 1NG

I hope you all will participate in this worthy cause, and maybe win some cool prizes at the same time.  Even a few dollars (or pounds) makes a difference!

-Audra-









From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  7 17:07:41 2003
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 17:07:41 -0000
Subject: Christians & HP (side order of LOTR)
In-Reply-To: <BAY8-F9PTQxHgnfOHrd0002cfe9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bec9ct+k907@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Terry James" 
<terryljames at h...> wrote:
  Some who do
> like to read are convinced, based on what they've "heard", that 
the books 
> are Satanic, and if you try to defend them, obviously you are 
possessed 
> also.  

I'm a Christian, too, and I am SO sick of defending myself on this 
issue!  

 
> If anybody starts with me, I ask them if they've read any of the 
books.  The 
> answer is always "No."  Then, if I'm feeling kind, I advise them 
to do so 
> before they start criticizing. 

That's what I do, but they don't read them and they just wait and 
bring it up again later.  My mother-in-law is the worst one!  I love 
her very much and she's a very smart woman.  The problem is, 
anything (and I mean anything)  out of the ordinary is "dangerous"  
in her eyes.  I have four kids and we have survived many fads, 
including Pokemon.  Oh my God, I never heard the end of  that one.  
All she said was, "They keep talking about evolving!  That's against 
the Bible!!"  and "Did you know that Pokemon means pocket 
monsters?!  You can't let them watch that!"  My boys only watched 
the cartoon, they didn't even want the cards or toys, for crying out 
loud.  Now that I am a huge HP fan, it isn't any better.  For now, 
there's been a truce called, but she gets that tight-lipped AUnt 
Petunia look when it's brought up - and believe me, I don't bring it 
up. THis is the same woman that wouldn't let her kids see ET:  The 
Extra Terrestrial in 1981.  Please. 



> If I'm feeling particularly un-Christian, I 
> hold them down forcibly and give them all the main themes of all 
the books, 
> with quotes and chapter summaries, until they agree with me just 
to get me 
> to shut up.

Hehehe, oh I love it!! :D  Go get 'em!


> What do you do with people who have never and will never read the 
books?  
> Especially if you live with them.  :)  How do those of you who 
live with 
> non-HPers cope?


I don't know that I cope very well.  After two years of being a big 
fan, I'm really tired of defending myself and the books.  I keep my 
mouth shut to keep the peace, which probably isn't that great.  My 
husband thinks I am amusing and tolerates me ;).  Bottom line is, if 
they don't read and study the books with an open mind, I don't think 
they will ever agree with it.  According to my mother-in-law, the 
Bible says ALL witchcraft is evil, be it good or bad.  I try to tell 
her that in Harry's world (hello!  it's a book for goodness' sake!), 
there is good and evil and it has biblical themes, but NO. It's all 
bad.  Period.   To ease her mind, I've told her that I read the 
books with my children, I watch the movies with them and we discuss 
it all.  I do that with anything in regards to my children.  To be 
fair, I'm the parent that likes kids' movies (I adored Finding 
Nemo!!) and kids' books.  My own mother never read anything I picked 
up, and I read things that would curl her hair! I grew up on reruns 
of "Bewitched"  and "I Dream of Jeannie"  and no one was worried 
about me.  I feel as though I am doing the best I can with my 
children.  I just really hate that superior look that mothers-in-law 
give you sometimes, as though they just KNOW you are doing something 
harmful, and you are going to come back to them in  ten years and 
tell them they were right.  Ugh.  All right, sorry for the rant, but 
I've kept it bottled up too long.  Cheers!!

Alora






From timregan at microsoft.com  Mon Jul  7 18:05:29 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:05:29 -0000
Subject: Ordering our preferences of the HP books (was Re: Umbridge in The Scotsman/Poll)
In-Reply-To: <be9r39+g07j@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <beccp9+pfth@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter Gabriela  wrote:

> > http://www.news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=735522003
 
> According to the poll (on the right side of the page)
> OoP is the best book of HP; even better than PoA. 

> (who thinks she probably is a 3-4-5-1-2 person now)

There was a poll about this in this group 
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=1111972> 
though it didn't allow the amount of information your syntax does. 
Let me extend your syntax: `,' means that you cannot choose which of 
a pair of books is better (i.e. you liked them the same), and `--' 
means liked a book much more. 

Then I'm now a 3--1,4,5-2.
Or maybe a 3--1-4,5-2.
Or should it be 3-5-1,4-2?

Arghhh, this is hard.

Cheers,

Dumbledad.





From boggles at earthlink.net  Mon Jul  7 18:05:29 2003
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:05:29 -0500
Subject: Crunchy Verbs (moved from main list)
In-Reply-To: <BAY7-F119JenJS5lMCk00008d2d@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY7-F119JenJS5lMCk00008d2d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <p05200f00bb2f657ea8cb@[192.168.1.100]>

At 5:56 AM +0000 7/5/03, Jesta Hijinx wrote:
>
>The most common and horrific one (and it doesn't appear in OotP, not that I
>saw, thankfully) is "administrate".  :-/  "Administration" comes from the
>verb "to administer".  There actually is no word, save for the false verb
>reconstruction, "administrate".

Actually, for me "administer" and "administrate" are two different 
words.  To administrate is to act like a stereotypical administrator 
(Fudge, for example).  Similarly, we have "comment" and then 
"commentate" - to make noises like a commentator.

The erroneous back-formations can be quite useful if one's intent is 
a bit tongue-in-cheek, IMHO.  A number of the administrators in my 
school district administrate rather than administer.

-- 

  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles(at)earthlink.net
"It is not knowledge, but the act of learning, not possession but the 
act of getting there, which grants the greatest enjoyment. "
	- Gauss, in a Letter to Bolyai, 1808.



From boggles at earthlink.net  Mon Jul  7 18:14:55 2003
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:14:55 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Ordering our preferences of the HP books
 (was Re: Umbridge in The Scotsman/Poll)
In-Reply-To: <beccp9+pfth@eGroups.com>
References: <beccp9+pfth@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <p05200f02bb2f682948cc@[192.168.1.100]>

At 6:05 PM +0000 7/7/03, Tim Regan wrote:
>
>There was a poll about this in this group
><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=1111972>
>though it didn't allow the amount of information your syntax does.
>Let me extend your syntax: `,' means that you cannot choose which of
>a pair of books is better (i.e. you liked them the same), and `--'
>means liked a book much more.

I'm a 4-3--5,1--2, then.

That's a little misleading, though - I probably *enjoyed* SS a lot 
more than I did OotP, even though I appreciate them equally as books. 
I didn't dislike CoS, either - I just felt it's the weakest in the 
series so far.  In hindsight, a lot of that is because it was setting 
up things to bear fruit in books 3 and 4, which are my favorites - if 
JKR's comments about book 5 being so very long because it was setting 
up for books 6 and 7, we may be in for a pair of thrilling reads 
indeed.

-- 

  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles(at)earthlink.net
"It is not knowledge, but the act of learning, not possession but the 
act of getting there, which grants the greatest enjoyment. "
	- Gauss, in a Letter to Bolyai, 1808.



From wgouine1 at mac.com  Mon Jul  7 18:29:47 2003
From: wgouine1 at mac.com (Peter Paul)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:29:47 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Clay Shirky on social software
In-Reply-To: <be9hhe+f9iq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <FD36A1AF-B0A8-11D7-AB59-0003935103DC@mac.com>

> I asked:
> > > what is forking?
>
> Rita replied:
> > Someone else can give the technical UNIX definition of forking
>
	In Ohio it is a bizarre prank played by silly high schoolers wherein 
one sticks approximately 1000 or more plastic forks into someone's 
front yard.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Mon Jul  7 18:48:11 2003
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:48:11 -0000
Subject: cliquishness was Astronomical Errors (was:Clay Shirky on social software
In-Reply-To: <3F093C84.27398.46A5C9@localhost>
Message-ID: <becf9b+bc4u@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun Hately" 
<drednort at a...> wrote:
> On 6 Jul 2003 at 23:05, Catlady (Rita Prince Winston) wrote:
> 
> > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun Hately" 
<drednort at a...> 
> > wrote:
> > Perhaps they will be added to the list of worthwhile posters 
when  recommended by a known worthwhile posters who DOES 
read their posts, > or from becoming known in chat..
> 
> Yes, could happen - my point is though, that I think these 
things are  concerned and as I don't think most people want to 
see the list become  cliquish, it's something worth considering. 
> 

 People who want to limit their reading only to particular 
persons and/or topics can form another list very easily.  HPfGU 
has spawned quite a few groups of this kind, eg Snapefans, 
HP-fanfiction, and  of course OT-Chatter itself. 

 While this may create cliques in the HP fan community, 
and HPfGU itself had been accused of cliquishness, it does 
keep down the formation of cliques within a particular group

 Reading only posts by certain people doesn't isolate you from 
contact with the rest of the  main list  unless all of those people 
are following the same  strategy and never replying to anyone 
outside the selected group.  Since the moderation system 
assures that all newbie posts are read by an old hand, reading 
only old hands may actually mitigate against this sort of closed 
circle.

Pippin






From bboy_mn at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  7 18:54:59 2003
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:54:59 -0000
Subject: Brit Speak - 'Wotcher Harry...'?
Message-ID: <becfm3+saj8@eGroups.com>

I'm posting this here because it's really too small to clutter up the
Main list, so...

What the heck does 'Wotcher' mean?

It's used several times in the book. Amoung others, Tonks greets Harry
with 'Wotcher, Harry...'.

At first I thought is was someone's name. That they were talking to
someone not acknowledged in the scene, but after it happening several
times, that didn't seem to make sense.

So.... Wotcher...?

Just a thought.

bboy_mn





From bboy_mn at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  7 19:00:39 2003
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 19:00:39 -0000
Subject: UK Edition
In-Reply-To: <beaetb+ds5o@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <becg0n+22pq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "grindieloe" <andie at k...> wrote:
> I have a question for US residents that bought a UK OOP edition... 
> Where did you buy yours from? I really want to get one, but I'm not 
> sure the best route to go... :)
> 
> Your input in appreciated...
> 
> grindieloe :)

bboy_mn:

I got mine from Chapters.Indigo
http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/
Remember that the prices are mark in Canadian Dollars which are worth
less than US Dollars, so the prices may seem high, but after
conversion they are very reasonable. Current price at todays exchange
rate = CA$25.80 = US$19.34.

For anyone interested in comparing, here are the exchange rates:
(Jan 17, 2003)

US$1.00 = BP?0.618 - CA$1.535
CA$1.00 = BP?0.403 = US$0.651
BP?1.00 = US$1.618 = CA$2.484

There are also available for Amazon.ca

bboy_mn





From timregan at microsoft.com  Mon Jul  7 21:17:53 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 21:17:53 -0000
Subject: Brit Speak - 'Wotcher Harry...'?
In-Reply-To: <becfm3+saj8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <beco21+i760@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter Steve wrote:
> What the heck does 'Wotcher' mean?

Sadly I won't have access to the Oxford English Dictionary online 
once I've left this job, so let's make the most of it now:

 Colloq. corruption of `what cheer?' (CHEER n. 3b), a familiar 
greeting. 
 
  1894 A. CHEVALIER Humorous Songs 4 `Wot cher!' all the neighbours 
cried, `Who're yer goin' to meet, Bill?' 1899 North-China Herald 13 
Nov. 962/3 (Advt.), `Wot Cher, Mate?' may be a rough form of 
salutation. 1928 Granta 2 Nov. 71 (caption) Wotcher! 1954 J. MASTERS 
Bhowani Junction xxxii. 279 Howland waved violently to Victoria..and 
shouted, `Wotcher, Vicky!' 1977 `J. GASH' Judas Pair iii. 
38 `Watcha, Lovejoy.' `Come in, Tinker.' 1980 `J. GASH' Spend Game 
xvi. 162 `Hello, Lovejoy.' `Wotcher, love.'

Cheers,

Dumbledad.




From jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  7 21:10:08 2003
From: jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com (Haggridd)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 21:10:08 -0000
Subject: origins of avada kedavra
In-Reply-To: <bearj8+v2ds@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <becnjg+e5t4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "aliceinchains520" 
<blackcat93 at s...> wrote:
> This is my first post, so forgive me if I've committed a heinous 
> error.
> 
> Avada kedavra is from the Aramaic meaning "may the thing be 
> destoyed." I found this interesting.  This information is from an 
> article on Judaic Mythology.  The whole article is at: 
> www.pantheon.org/areas/mythology/asia/judaic/articles.html
> 
> Go check it out! It's really cool.
> 
> -AIC520

Alice, you have not committed any error at all.  Although this has 
been pointed out over the years since GoF was published, it is lovely 
to hear that you are making the same voyage of discoverythat many of 
us have made, to see the wealth of allusion that JKR has put into her 
books.  And I don't believe I have seen that link before.

So, please share your observations without reservation.  And, some 
time from now, you may be reading a post by another newbie who will 
have discovered for herself what you have already found, an etymology 
for Avada Kedavra-- or of Viktor Krum's surname (bandylegged), or of 
Dumbledore's (bumblebee), or of Crookshanks's (also bandylegged), or 
why Sybill Trelawney is named Sybill, or ...........

-Haggridd (who isn't sure whether he prefers JKR's puns on names or 
her allusions)





From hypercolor99 at hotmail.com  Mon Jul  7 21:32:28 2003
From: hypercolor99 at hotmail.com (alice_loves_cats)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 21:32:28 -0000
Subject: Brit Speak - 'Wotcher Harry...'?
In-Reply-To: <becfm3+saj8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <becotc+ttln@eGroups.com>

Steve:
> What the heck does 'Wotcher' mean?

Alice:
wotcher! late 19th century, a stereotypical cockney greeting (elission
of 16C+ Standard English "what cheer")

This is from Jonathon Green's Cassell's Dictionary of Slang, a truly
enjoyable book. :-)

Love, Alice
---smitten by Luna :-)




From toofacedgrl at aol.com  Mon Jul  7 21:42:09 2003
From: toofacedgrl at aol.com (toofacedgrl at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:42:09 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: origins of avada kedavra
Message-ID: <c9.356fcec0.2c3b4331@aol.com>

This is my first post, so I apologize if this has already been pointed out.
In my city, there is a hearing center named "Avada."  When I pointed this out 
to a friend (a non HP fan), she told me that "avada" meant "to hear" in some 
language.
~Meg


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From kattrap_meow at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  7 21:46:27 2003
From: kattrap_meow at yahoo.com (Andrea)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 21:46:27 -0000
Subject: HP tough quizes
In-Reply-To: <20030707081141.76959.qmail@web12902.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <becpnj+i929@eGroups.com>

 Suzaku <phoenix_suzaku18 at y...> wrote:
>  I've been in search of a difficult Harry Potter quiz. For an obsessed adult like me, who can quote almost every character from memory. (I specialize in differentiating between Gred and Forge ^_-.)
>  So if anyone has a link to a *really* tough quiz, please let me know... (Since I claim to know so much -- too much -- I should probably create my own quiz. Hmmm.)  

Not sure if it's hard enough for you, but I like the Scholastic trivia:

http://www.scholastic.com/harrypotter/challenge/index.htm
(hopefully you have a flash enabled browser)

The questions are submitted by fans, lots and lots of questions.
If anyone else has suggestions, I'd like to here them also!

-Andrea/Kattrap

~ draco dormiens nunquam titillandus ~





From MsSeverusLucius at aol.com  Mon Jul  7 22:24:52 2003
From: MsSeverusLucius at aol.com (MsSeverusLucius at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:24:52 EDT
Subject: Queer Harry?  (article)
Message-ID: <1d1.d486533.2c3b4d34@aol.com>



-------------------------------------

What Is It About Harry?

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=16314


Evangelicals who are all worked up about Harry Potter's celebration of magic 
and the occult are on to something. The kid may just be queer, in the broadest 
sense.

-------------------------------------



From jgates at eddinc.net  Mon Jul  7 22:26:14 2003
From: jgates at eddinc.net (Jean Gates)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:26:14 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Christians & HP (side order of LOTR)
In-Reply-To: <BAY8-F9PTQxHgnfOHrd0002cfe9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <000401c344d6$c98f7ce0$55d86fd8@jgatescomputer>





What do you do with people who have never and will never read the books?

Especially if you live with them.  :)  How do those of you who live with

non-HPers cope?

Terry LJ



Do you know what I did?  My husband, after seeing the movies thought it
might be interesting to read the books but claimed he just didn?t have
the time.  (Although he does find time to read the LOTR books once a
year or so.)  So what I did was?I started reading them to him in the
car.  (Approximately every two months or so we take a drive down the
state of Illinois,  (I mean we live approximately two miles from the
Wisconsin state border and we go to approximately 10 miles from the
Kentucky state border) a drive of about 7 to 8 hours, depending upon the
number of stops.)  After I finished SS he couldn?t wait for the next
trip to ?hear? the next book.  This helps the time fly with the long
drive and gives us something to talk about.  We recently finished the
first task in GOF and he had me finish the chapter in the house even
though we had finished the trip but he wanted to know how it ended.  If
I hadn?t have started reading the books to him he would have never have
picked up the books on his own and would never have agreed to go to Oak
Park, IL with me on June 20.



Jean


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From rvotaw at i-55.com  Tue Jul  8 00:16:53 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:16:53 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Christians & HP (side order of LOTR)
References: <000401c344d6$c98f7ce0$55d86fd8@jgatescomputer>
Message-ID: <00fd01c344e6$3c901bf0$12a3cdd1@RVotaw>

Jean wrote:

> Do you know what I did?  My husband, after seeing the movies thought it
> might be interesting to read the books but claimed he just didn?t have
> the time.  (Although he does find time to read the LOTR books once a
> year or so.)  So what I did was?I started reading them to him in the
> car.  (Approximately every two months or so we take a drive down the

I did something similar to my mom.  We ride to church and back together (40
minute drive) so I started listening to the CDs for the HP books in the car.
She heard some, and then I listened driving to work and back, so she missed
some parts.  I was on GoF, near the end, Harry just entered the graveyard.
I was trying to get GoF finished before OoP came out, and said I'd listen to
it on the way to work the next day.  Her response was "Then I won't know
what happens!"  It's the first time she expressed an interest, all the other
times I've just been cramming it down her throat.  I'm making progress!

Now, I admit there are hard core fundamentalists who simply do not embrace
ANY fantasy stories at all.  I know people who don't allow their child to
read any sort of fairy tale, from Cinderella on up.  I respect their
choices, though I personally think that's rather narrow minded.  As long as
a child is taught to separate fantasy from reality, I see no problem.  It's
the people who enjoy fairy tales, LOTR and so on but bash HP that really
bother me.

Richelle





From annemehr at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  8 00:35:02 2003
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 00:35:02 -0000
Subject: JKR's nom de plume
Message-ID: <bed3jm+i5df@eGroups.com>

Before I get going here, I can't resist giving my book preferences:
5,4,3-2,1 with a *very* small dash between the 3 and the 2.  
Whichever one I pick up and read, I'm constantly thinking, "Oh, 
yeah, I *loved* this scene!"

Anyway, on to the point.  In the RAH interview, Stephen Fry (did I 
get the name right?) assumed that naturally she would be writing 
post-Harry books under another name, and she agreed.  At first I 
thought, rats, I like her *real* name, but I can certainly think of 
reasons why she would not like to use it, especially when she's 
writing for adults.  I don't, however, think it's going to stop 
reviewers from comparing her other works to "Harry Potter" -- after 
all, they will know it's her, won't they?  Next, I worried for 
myself: if she uses another name, how will I find her books?  But of 
course, someone will post about it here! ::sigh of relief::

Suddenly, I realised who we're dealing with here: this is JK 
Rowling, the Queen of Names!  I just know she could come up with 
some really good pseudonyms for herself.  This suggests to me a 
really good game: coming up with clever noms de plume for JKR.  
Unfortunately I have no talent for this at all and couldn't come up 
with anything original.

I do think "Miranda Goshawk" would be kind of cool (not that she'd 
use that though).

Anybody else want to give it a shot?

Annemehr
appellationally challenged
  




From trinity61us at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  8 02:06:18 2003
From: trinity61us at yahoo.com (alex fox)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:06:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Radcliffe asks for donations to NAS for his birthday
In-Reply-To: <452EB000.043ECD21.022D3A68@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20030708020618.58119.qmail@web14901.mail.yahoo.com>

 A raffle for Daniel Radcliffe?!!!!!! Kick-ass! I have always wanted one of those!!!! LOL But seriously, that is a very nice thing for him to ask! What a nice young man!
 
Alex Fox

Audra1976 at aol.com wrote:
As if I needed another reason to love Daniel Radcliffe...

As someone who works with Autistic children and their families, I was thrilled to have just read that in lieu of birthday presents, Daniel Radcliffe wants his family, friends, and fans to send a donation in his name to the National Autistic Society, a British organization that supports Autism research and families of people with Autism.  If you donate, you will also be entered in a raffle for Daniel Radcliffe and Harry Potter related prizes.  The donations in Dan's name are being taken up until July 23, 2003, at this site: 

http://www.justgiving.com/pages/?id=GGG/1783

Just remember if you are not from the UK, that you are donating in pounds, which is equivalant to a higher amount of US dollars, so do your conversions first!  You can also send snail mail donations (checks), but make sure you specify that it is for Daniel Radcliffe's birthday as well as giving your own name if you want to be included in the raffle:

Rebecca Lloyd
Head of Direct Marketing
National Autistic Society
393 City Road
London EC1V 1NG

I hope you all will participate in this worthy cause, and maybe win some cool prizes at the same time.  Even a few dollars (or pounds) makes a difference!

-Audra-







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From Erthena at aol.com  Tue Jul  8 02:43:49 2003
From: Erthena at aol.com (werebearloony)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 02:43:49 -0000
Subject: The Acronym Challenge (WAS A TBAY question Re:SYCOPHANTS & Acronyms)
In-Reply-To: <bdqd1t+3jik@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bedb55+dlqt@eGroups.com>

Sorry for replying so late but I was Out of Town.  I couldn't resist 
trying for a good acronym though.
> So, uh, Wolf.  What's your longest acronym?  Do you guys want to 
> engage in a little acronym challenge, hmmm?  I wonder who can come 
up 
> with the longest and best acronym concerning OoP?  You know, to 
win 
> the title of "Best Acronym Generator In The Free World."  ;-)
> 
> Hmmm.  Any takers?  
> 
> <gives Grey Wolf her best "come hither" glance> 

Here it is (my first offical acronym! *Sniffles*)
<<CLIP-ON TIE--
Charm Loses Its Power Over Neville Terrifying Inbred Evildoers.>> 
There, not very long and not quite what I wanted but it was too go 
to pass up 
and all that Jazz
--loony




From catlady at wicca.net  Tue Jul  8 03:36:59 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 03:36:59 -0000
Subject: social software in hard copy (was: Clay Shirky on social software
In-Reply-To: <bec3ro+t8n4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bede8r+822o@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tim Regan" <timregan at m...> 
wrote:
> 
> Catlady ? do you have references to any of these? In particular how 
> did M2Ms work ? who kept the membership list and how did it scale? 
> What are APAs? How ancient is a Round Robin Manuscript, and how is 
> membership maintained for them? Again, nobody expects the Spanish 
> Inquisition.

Sounds like you had a lovely holiday.
I never came closer to a publication that called itself an M2M than 
reading their listings in the late lamented Factsheet Five, but Mike 
Gunderloy confirmed that they're the same as APAs, which have been 
part of my life for upwards of 25 years.

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/APA
"In science fiction fandom an APA is a periodically collated 
fanzine (or specifically apazine) for which the pages are printed by 
each contributor on his own, and then sent to be collated and 
redistributed solely to the contributors themselves. (Derives from 
Amateur Press Association)"

Almost right. Each individual's contribution is called a fanzine or 
apazine, not the entire pile of contribution (which is called various 
things like 'bundle' and 'distribution'). Often the members send only 
one copy (the 'original') to the central person (often called titles 
like Central Mailer or Official Editor even tho' heesh does no 
editting), and the central person reproduces them at the member's 
expense -- when I was CM of an APA, I just took everything to a 
photocopy shop, but serious fans used to have their own mimeographs 
at home and they demanded that originals be sent typed on mimeo 
stencils until electrostencilling (a way of photocopying something 
onto a stencil) became widely available.

The Central Mailer collates all the copies of the disty (one copy 
of each contribution to each disty) and usually adds a Table of 
Contents, a cover, and staples. My domestic partner, Tim, is OE of 
APA-L, a weekly apa approaching disty number 2000, which is 
collated each week during the meeting of the Los Angeles Science 
Fantasy Society. He hands the disties out in person to any member 
who stayed late enough for the collation to be finished. The APA of 
which I was CM was monthly and had members all over, so I mailed the 
disties to the members (thus, another name for disty is 'mailing'). 
Many APAs charge dues to pay for the ToC, cover, and staples 
--- I just paid for them myself --- APA-L sells surplus disties to 
raise money to pay for that stuff. The members pay for the cost of 
postage to mail it to them.

In general, the Central Mailer keeps the membership list. In general, 
the only officier is the Central Mailer, the first Central Mailer is 
the founder of the APA, and when a Central Mailer is sick of the job, 
heesh calls an election with votes due in by a certain date. Often, 
we're lucky if there is even one candidate. (APAs are dying out as 
people switch to the immediate gratification of on-line groups 
instead, as I have done.) Some of the older APAs have more elaborate 
structures, with a President and a Treasurer and the responsibility 
of being Central Mailer rotates in order among the members.

Problems of scale are avoided by specifying how many members the 
APA can have at one time, and having a waiting list if people want to 
join but the roster is full. There was a time when SFPA (Southern 
Fandom Press Association) was so popular that people on the waiting 
list started their own APA, Shadow-SFPA, and they had to limit it 
to the top 30 people on the waiting list, so the next 30 people 
plotted to found Shadow-Shadow-SFPA.

I didn't say it was a useful model for on-line communication, just 
that it had existed!

http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?search=round+robin&go=Go
"The term round-robin is used in several contexts and usually means 
that a number of things are taking turns at something, for example a 
"round-robin-party" where participants walk door to door for small 
parties at each participants habitat." 

I don't know much of the history. I know that my friends in middle 
school and I had a round robin in a spiral notebook that we passed to 
each other in alphabetic order, wrote what we wanted to, and passed 
on. I know that a Mystery Novel was written in that manner (but not 
with comments scrawled on the previous papges) by a collection of 
prominent Mystery Writers in 1942 and evidentally published as "The 
President's Mystery Novel".





From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Tue Jul  8 09:25:07 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 09:25:07 -0000
Subject: Clay Shirky on social software
In-Reply-To: <bebi34+ala9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bee2lj+6gug@eGroups.com>

Naama wrote:

> It depends on individual psychology. I would be doubly insulted 
that 
> somebody read my post and wasn't interested enough to reply! I 
prefer 
> to think that the post wasn't noticed, rather than read and tossed 
> away.

You say that, but I wonder if you have thought through the 
implications.  We have nearly 10,000 members on the main list - most 
of these are lurkers.  Let's suppose 90% have forgotten their 
membership so we have about 1000 active members including 'active 
lurkers' - that is, people who make an effort to read but never post. 
Even if the numbers are not right the argument will carry through.

How many people will read one of your posts, do you suppose?  A 
hundred?  Five hundred?  How many will reply?  How many do you *want* 
to reply?

I think the wise person will accept one reply and four hundred and 
ninety-nine 'double insults', rather than five hundred replies (even 
if offlist), or have the vast majority of the list skip their posts 
entirely.

In fact, unless list volume is going to snowball uncontrollably, the 
average number of replies to each post *must* be very small, 
certainly less than one though I can't quite do the sums in my head.

David




From terryljames at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  8 13:35:13 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (terryljames76)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 13:35:13 -0000
Subject: Size of HW 
In-Reply-To: <beas5c+c8u2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <beehah+j92a@eGroups.com>


> bboy_mn wrote:
> 
> Conclusions we've reach so far-
> 
> 1.) it's impossible to accurately determine the number of student by
> any means. Believe me, we have approached it from every possible 
angle
> and it simply can not be accurately determined. 


I guess I'll agree with you on this.  I know I seem to have a wildly 
different opinion than everyone else (although I'm getting used to 
that! :) )
> 
> Although, I personally suspect that enrollment tyically ranges for 
600
> to 800, with low end being 400 to 600, and peak enrollment being 800
> to 1,000. 
> 

I could go with that.  When I first read JKR's comment re "about a 
thousand", that tallied with what I had in my head, so I accepted 
it.  But I see in OOP that she has specified, in two separate 
places, "about a hundred" carriages, and later "a hundred" thestrals 
to pull them.  There were at least five people in Harry's carriage, 
unless Neville was there but wasn't speaking, so we could postulate 
that there are 500 people at HW not counting the first years...but we 
don't know if all the carriages were full; we don't know if the 
carriages could seat, perhaps, ten but Harry's was half-empty because 
no one wanted to ride with "that nutter"...I guess we'll never know!


Terry LJ




From naama_gat at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  8 13:58:56 2003
From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naamagatus)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 13:58:56 -0000
Subject: What's more insulting? (was Re: Clay Shirky on social software)
In-Reply-To: <bee2lj+6gug@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <beein0+a28d@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "David" <dfrankiswork at n...> 
wrote:
> Naama wrote:
> 
> > It depends on individual psychology. I would be doubly insulted 
> that 
> > somebody read my post and wasn't interested enough to reply! I 
> prefer 
> > to think that the post wasn't noticed, rather than read and 
tossed 
> > away.
> 
> You say that, but I wonder if you have thought through the 
> implications.  

Of course not! <g>

> We have nearly 10,000 members on the main list - most 
> of these are lurkers.  Let's suppose 90% have forgotten their 
> membership so we have about 1000 active members including 'active 
> lurkers' - that is, people who make an effort to read but never 
>post. Even if the numbers are not right the argument will carry 
>through.
> 
> How many people will read one of your posts, do you suppose?  A 
> hundred?  Five hundred?  How many will reply?  How many do you 
>*want* to reply?

Well, I did write my post with a bit of tongue in cheek, however 
(since you insist on taking it seriously), I don't think the numbers 
argument stands. People read posts on subjects that interest them. 
For instance, I didn't read Shaun's astronomy post (sorry, Shuan) 
simply because the subject doesn't interest me (all that detail!). 
So, even if all the people who read my post reply to it, there may 
not be so many of them. Obviously, though, *I* can't be expected to 
answer all their posts, can I? ;-) 

I wasn't making a policy suggestion, David. Just throwing murky light 
on my unfathomable insecurities.



Naama




From beldasnoop at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  8 15:58:10 2003
From: beldasnoop at yahoo.com (beldasnoop)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:58:10 -0000
Subject: Christians & HP (side order of LOTR)
In-Reply-To: <00fd01c344e6$3c901bf0$12a3cdd1@RVotaw>
Message-ID: <beepmi+pmp1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Richelle Votaw" 
<rvotaw at i...> wrote:
> 
> Now, I admit there are hard core fundamentalists who simply do not 
embrace
> ANY fantasy stories at all.  I know people who don't allow their 
child to
> read any sort of fairy tale, from Cinderella on up.  I respect their
> choices, though I personally think that's rather narrow minded.  As 
long as
> a child is taught to separate fantasy from reality, I see no 
problem.  It's
> the people who enjoy fairy tales, LOTR and so on but bash HP that 
really
> bother me.

Me, too.  I'm also a Christian (not Pentecostal, but I am an 
Evangelical), and I've noticed mixed reaction to HP and fantasy in 
general among people at my church.  There are a lot of hard-core 
Tolkien fans, but there are a few (very few AFAIK) families who don't 
like LoTR because they don't like even the slightest suggestion 
of "witchcraft".  I don't really bother trying to convince them, 
because I don't think I'd get anywhere; I just respectfully 
disagree.  As for HP, I have heard one or two people bash it, but 
again, there are probably just as many (if not more) who love it.  It 
was actually a lady from my church who finally got me interested 
enough to consider reading them (I didn't think they were bad--they 
just didn't seem that interesting to me before), and then I saw the 
first movie in my hotel room while on a vacation, and I just *had* to 
go to the library when I got home and check out the books.  I've been 
hooked ever since.  

The fun thing is that now my husband is reading them.  He's never 
been much of a reader, but he's heard me talk about HP so much that 
he's become extremely curious.  We just bought a set of the first 
four books to go along with my copy of book 5 (which is the first HP 
I didn't check out from the library first), and he's reading SS right 
now.  I think the more Christians read HP, the better, because as far 
as I've seen, among Christians who've actually read the books, there 
seems to be a lot of support.  

Michelle (beldasnoop)






From artsylynda at aol.com  Tue Jul  8 17:15:50 2003
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:15:50 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Christians and HP
Message-ID: <104.32389f3a.2c3c5646@aol.com>

What do you do with people who have never and will never read the books?  
Especially if you live with them.  :)  How do those of you who live with 
non-HPers cope?

Terry LJ


My hubby will never read them -- he's into sci-fi and spy thrillers and so 
forth, and fantasy just doesn't interest him (except for the "Laura Croft: Tomb 
Raider" kind of movies, of course, heehee, lots of action and eye-candy 
there).  So I spend my HP "enrichment" time here on these boards.  Nobody here wants 
to talk about them in the depth I do.  

Lynda 
* * *
". . .the cat's among the pixies now."  Mrs. Figg, OoP


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dee_dolly7 at yahoo.ca  Tue Jul  8 18:03:56 2003
From: dee_dolly7 at yahoo.ca (Lee)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 18:03:56 -0000
Subject: New member to the lists!
Message-ID: <bef12c+101t0@eGroups.com>


Hello everyone! I'm Lee, I'm 21, I live in Canada (WAHOO!!) I just 
read the 5th book last night, and I am FULL of information, ideas, 
theories and thoughts just waiting to let out and explored! I am 
highly  opinionated on subjects (lol) love a debate, very hotheaded, 
but quick to appologize *blush* and, um, I love Snape, fav character, 
so any arguments on him you know I'll probably get into, and if you 
want to know WHY I love him, I'll be more than happy to tell you at 
any set occasion. ;)

I am also a writer, I've written a ton of stuff, but don't have the 
money to publish anything *sigh* but I don't mind waiting for that, 
I'm still enjoying my Harry euphoria so any writing I do right now 
I can't trust myself to ever publish. I'm highly influenced by 
Rowlings books. Ah, I hope she does other series, this ones fantastic!
Well, any conversation starters I have are sort of high and dry right 
now. So hi all and hope to have fun!

Lee





From timregan at microsoft.com  Tue Jul  8 19:47:15 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 19:47:15 -0000
Subject: Byatt's attack on us (not long anymore)
Message-ID: <bef743+c7p3@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

The Leaky Cauldron posted a link to a NYT review of the Harry Potter 
adult reader phenomenon by A.S. Byatt  
<http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/07/opinion/07BYAT.html>.

First disclaimer: I'm a fan of A.S. Byatt's books.
Second disclaimer: I'm not a fan of A.S. Byatt. At least, when I've 
heard her interviewed she sounds very 
 up-her-bum (= intellectually 
conceited).

There is a discussion of the review on TLC 
<http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MT/mt-comments.cgi?
entry_id=3237>, but the last thing I need now is another Harry 
Potter discussion forum to watch so I thought I'd try to start one 
here.

Essentially, the review says that the reason adults enjoy Harry 
Potter books is because the books are derivatives of the Enid Blyton 
and Billy Bunter books we enjoyed as kids. I.e. they are crap. She 
contrasts the restricted imaginary world of the Harry Potter books 
with the metaphysical wit, genius for strong parody, startling 
originality, and amazing writing of authors like Terry Pratchett 
(whom I haven't read).

In the TLC discussion, one point that's made repeatedly is that 
Byatt cannot have read the books. I doubt that is true. I know from 
a BBC radio interview with her that she has a particular reading 
style, where she reads books in two phases. In the first phase she 
speed reads the book to decide if it is worth reading slowly. If she 
gets to the second phase, she reads slowly and savors the language 
and the ideas. So she's read them at least once, fast.

But there is something lame about the Harry Potter books (though I 
love them to pieces), and I like the Byatt review for trying to 
tease that out. I've several adult friends who are well read, who 
enjoy good children's fiction, but who read them and just didn't get 
it. Like Pullman <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-
OTChatter/message/12664>, I think that JKR has "the quality of 
making children want to read on without any effort at all" and it 
works on me too, but does the potterverse feel philosophically 
coherent, does the evil in it feel fully three-dimensional?

Cheers,

Dumbledad.





From coriolan at worldnet.att.net  Tue Jul  8 19:47:53 2003
From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 19:47:53 -0000
Subject: Hitler V. Stalin (swords & sorcery style)
Message-ID: <bef759+tcba@eGroups.com>

Check this out: a graphic novel of Hitler v. Stalin (Russian, but 
with English translation) in Swords & Sorcery style (sort of like 
Voldemort vs. Grindelwald). Excellent artwork!

http://www.comics.aha.ru/rus/stalin/1.html

   - CMC




From terryljames at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  8 19:50:03 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:50:03 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Terry Pratchett- was Byatt's attack on us 
Message-ID: <BAY8-F90xzujMvJSObj0002493c@hotmail.com>




>From: "Tim Regan" <timregan at microsoft.com>

>>Hi All,
>
>The Leaky Cauldron posted a link to a NYT review of the Harry Potter
>adult reader phenomenon
><http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/07/opinion/07BYAT.html> written by
>A.S. Byatt.
>
>
>

She
>contrasts the restricted imaginary world of the Harry Potter books
>with the metaphysical wit, genius for strong parody, startling
>originality, and amazing writing of authors like Terry Pratchett
>(whom I haven't read).


Going off on a tangent because I don't have time to reply to this ridiculous 
review, here's a recommendation:  Read Terry Pratchett!  It is a totally 
different style than Harry Potter, but if you like HP for all the subtleties 
you are likely to love Terry Pratchett as well.

My favorite series is the Night Watch (Sam Vimes is my hero!); my second 
favorite is the witches.  IMO all of Pratchett's series are fair-to-middling 
for the first book, and rapidly better through the series, until they are 
just excellent.

However, there's not much "numinous" in them, either:  they are grounded in 
very realistic (although vastly parodied) worlds.  From the tone of that 
review, you'd think Byatt would hate them too.  They aren't the kind of 
books which get "literary" people excited; but they are the kind that you 
can read on one level for the humor, the parody, and the fantasy; and then 
on a whole different level for the ethical questions they raise.

Terry LJ

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail




From pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk  Tue Jul  8 22:11:57 2003
From: pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk (bluesqueak)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:11:57 -0000
Subject: Byatt's attack on us (not long anymore)
In-Reply-To: <bef743+c7p3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <beffjd+oudr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tim Regan" <timregan at m...> 
wrote:

> But there is something lame about the Harry Potter books (though I 
> love them to pieces), and I like the Byatt review for trying to 
> tease that out. I've several adult friends who are well read, who 
> enjoy good children's fiction, but who read them and just didn't 
get 
> it. Like Pullman <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-
> OTChatter/message/12664>, I think that JKR has "the quality of 
> making children want to read on without any effort at all" and it 
> works on me too, but does the potterverse feel philosophically 
> coherent, does the evil in it feel fully three-dimensional?
> 

I think that's something that will only truly be answered when we 
get Book 7 in our hands. Because Rowling is aging the writing style 
with each book, as Harry ages, and so we'll only see the final adult 
version of the Potterverse with that book.

But in the meantime: yes, the evil is fully three-dimensional. And 
pervasive. It's becoming more and more apparent with each book that 
Voldemort, the traditional Evil Overlord is actually a symbol; a 
concentrated version of everything that is wrong with the society 
Harry was born into.

This is a world where Fudge nearly ruins a child's life because that 
kid's defended himself, where deals are done with criminals for 
information. Where the law is changed by decree, where people of 
mixed race or other races are seen as subhuman. Where genocide is 
being practiced on the Giants, and no-one seems to care.Where even 
the nice people are prejudiced, and see corruption as a normal part 
of life. 


I think A.S. Byatt has a very common fault; she confuses simplicity 
with stupidity and originality with profundity. If a book is plain 
in style, it's not a complex book. If it uses plot elements found 
elsewhere, it must be full of cliches (we will quietly ignore the 
works of William Shakespeare, whose collection of plays contains 
precisely one original plot [grin]).

And she has another common fault: the deeper things can only be 
found in the light of the stars, which (so this lament usually goes) 
have been hidden by the suburban street lights. We must go back to 
an earlier, mistier time...

To people who think this way there is no magic in the modern world. 
There are no moments when you pause in wonder to think that the 
words on this screen are being transmitted across the world at the 
speed of light. One never gets caught by the sheer beauty of a power 
station silhouetted against the sky. The fireworks in the sky are 
just gunpowder with added chemicals; they couldn't possibly be a 
wizard signalling a friend...

And because they can't see the magic in the mundane, they can't see 
the mundane in the magic. Rowling's magicians, unlike the Wizards of 
Terry Pratchett, have made magic into an everyday, workmanlike, 
*mundane* reality. Pratchett's magicians use magic to fight beings 
from the Dungeon Dimensions, or to have a chat with Death (IN 
CAPITALS). Rowling's magicians use it to make the tea. Cooper's Will 
learns his magic in one day, from a wonderous book, then goes out to 
battle cosmic forces of good and evil. Rowling's Harry has to learn 
his magic at school, with seven years of hard study. Then he goes 
out to battle a racist lunatic who the readers *know* could exist in 
the real world.

Which is more human? Which is more realistic? Be honest. We tamed 
the very lightning - and what do we use it for? To make the tea. A 
child in our world could learn to fly among the clouds - but not 
without getting good exam results first. We fight battles of good 
versus evil - against leaders who preach genocide.

We have a most amazing talent for making the wonderful and the 
mysterious into the mundane and the obvious. 

But A.S. Byatt would have 'fantasy' stick to the style of Bronte 
rather than the style of Jane Austen, would rather it lived on the 
romantic open moor than in the small confined society.

Well, I've got news for you, Ms. Byatt. Fantasy lives in both. ;-)

Pip!Squeak




From andie at knownet.net  Tue Jul  8 22:58:38 2003
From: andie at knownet.net (grindieloe)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:58:38 -0000
Subject: For the Love of Harry
Message-ID: <befiau+kar3@eGroups.com>

     I thoroughly enjoy spending free time here (and on the main group of 
course) reading posts, resonding, and feeling as though there are people out 
there who enjoy Harry Potter as I do.  However, is anyone else frustrated with 
the lack of actual people where you live to discuss with?  I would love to start 
an actual group at the local bookstore, etc., but there just aren't enough adult 
fans in the area.  (If only I could just meet the man of my dreams and find out 
that he enjoyed Harry Potter!  Ah, bliss...   hehehe)  :)  Anyway, do you guys 
also find the lack of actual warm bodies fit for discussion frustrating ... or is it 
just me???

grindieloe 
(who is currently shouting possible discussion questions at my neighbors and 
getting only funny looks in return)




From andie at knownet.net  Tue Jul  8 23:06:17 2003
From: andie at knownet.net (grindieloe)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 23:06:17 -0000
Subject: UK Edition... again
Message-ID: <befip9+f260@eGroups.com>

Just wanted to thank everyone on their input for where to buy the UK 
Editions... after checking out your suggestions, I ended up buying from 
amazon.com/uk.  It was very easy, especially since I already have an amazon 
account.  Plus, I believe they've (reg. & adult cover) already been shipped!  
Yeah!! I can't wait... 
Anyway, again, thanks for your input...

grindieloe




From boggles at earthlink.net  Tue Jul  8 23:22:07 2003
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:22:07 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Byatt's attack on us (not long anymore)
In-Reply-To: <bef743+c7p3@eGroups.com>
References: <bef743+c7p3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <p05200f01bb30fd9cda35@[192.168.1.100]>

At 7:47 PM +0000 7/8/03, Tim Regan wrote:
>
>Essentially, the review says that the reason adults enjoy Harry
>Potter books is because the books are derivatives of the Enid Blyton
>and Billy Bunter books we enjoyed as kids.

Wonder what she makes of those of us who didn't read such things (are 
the Nancy Drew and Hardy Boys books the US equivalent?  I didn't read 
them either).

>She
>contrasts the restricted imaginary world of the Harry Potter books
>with the metaphysical wit, genius for strong parody, startling
>originality, and amazing writing of authors like Terry Pratchett
>(whom I haven't read).

The Spouse has been known to claim that the Harry Potter books are 
"the gateway drug for the Discworld novels."  That's beside the 
point, though.

I have read a decent amount of Pratchett, and comparing his work to 
Rowling's is about as profitable - and as reasonable - as comparing 
either's to Tolkien.  Okay, the comment that Pratchett "writes 
amazing sentences" is true - when he's on form, at least - and JKR's 
wordsmithing is, I think, deliberately simpler, never ornate.  I 
think that's a stylistic choice on her part, and I don't think it 
detracts from the story at all.  Does it make it less good as 
literature?  That's a matter of opinion.  If you want some truly 
stunning sentences, you can go to Faulkner and Joyce, whom I really 
don't enjoy reading.  Chaucer's sentences tend to be fairly simple 
(although it depends on whose story he's telling), on the other hand, 
and he's definitely literature - and someone I do enjoy.

Both Pratchett and Tolkien have the advantage that their worlds are 
wholly constructed by them.  Tolkien's is a constructed mythic past 
for our world or something quite like it, and Pratchett's is a 
fast-and-furious parody of everything that was ever based off of 
Tolkien's (and many other things besides).  Neither is wholly 
original, but they create mostly-coherent worlds.  Rowling's 
Potterverse doesn't hang together quite as well, I admit.  Part of 
that is time - she's spent far less time on it than Tolkien spent on 
Middle-Earth.  Part of that is a mater of circumstance - the 
Discworld absorbs change very easily, by virtue of its own internal 
rules, while the Potterverse requires reasons for large changes. 
Mostly, though, I think it's because the Potterverse takes place just 
outside of our own modern-day world - it has to accommodate not only 
Rowling's universe but the real one, too.  That's a far harder task.

In some ways, it's easier to depict a numinous world when it's far 
away in time and space.  The Discworld is both.  Middle-Earth is at 
least well displaced in time.  The Potterverse is essentially here 
and now.

>but does the potterverse feel philosophically
>coherent,

Is the real world?  It's not as philosophically coherent as Tolkien 
is, but even he's not perfectly consistent, and it's at least as 
philosophically coherent as Pratchett is.  Moreover, I'm not entirely 
sure that's a flaw.

I do wish someone (psst!  Hermione!) would give us more of an idea of 
the metaphysics of magic in the Potterverse.  I do feel that's 
missing, and it's one of the things that it bugs me that Harry's 
never worried about.

>does the evil in it feel fully three-dimensional?

If you had asked me this after CoS, I would have answered "no." 
After GoF, it would have been "maybe."  Now, I think I'd have to 
answer "yes."  Voldemort himself isn't three-dimensional at all - he 
barely manages two on a good day - but he's not the be-all and 
end-all of evil in the Potterverse.  There will always be another 
Evil Overlord around.  Real, lasting harm is in figures like Umbridge 
and Fudge, in beings like the dementors, in the relationships between 
the wizards on the one hand and the house-elves, centaurs, giants, 
and other beings on the other.
-- 

  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles(at)earthlink.net
"It is not knowledge, but the act of learning, not possession but the 
act of getting there, which grants the greatest enjoyment. "
	- Gauss, in a Letter to Bolyai, 1808.



From psychic_serpent at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  9 00:05:23 2003
From: psychic_serpent at yahoo.com (psychic_serpent)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 00:05:23 -0000
Subject: Byatt's attack on us (not long anymore)
In-Reply-To: <beffjd+oudr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <befm83+r0f8@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bluesqueak" <pipdowns at e...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tim Regan" 
<timregan at m...> 
> wrote:
> 
> > But there is something lame about the Harry Potter books (though 
I 
> > love them to pieces), and I like the Byatt review for trying to 
> > tease that out. I've several adult friends who are well read, 
who 
> > enjoy good children's fiction, but who read them and just didn't 
> get 
> > it. Like Pullman <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-
> > OTChatter/message/12664>, I think that JKR has "the quality of 
> > making children want to read on without any effort at all" and 
it 
> > works on me too, but does the potterverse feel philosophically 
> > coherent, does the evil in it feel fully three-dimensional?
> > 
> I think A.S. Byatt has a very common fault; she confuses 
> simplicity with stupidity and originality with profundity. If a 
> book is plain in style, it's not a complex book. If it uses plot 
> elements found elsewhere, it must be full of cliches (we will 
> quietly ignore the works of William Shakespeare, whose collection 
> of plays contains precisely one original plot [grin]).

I think that another thing that bothered me about Byatt's review was 
that she doesn't seem to recognize that different authors have 
different strengths.  Pratchett's strengths, for instance, are humor 
and a facility with English I've rarely seen elsewhere.  His turns 
of phrase keep making me want to read bits of his books aloud to the 
people around me, they're so wonderful.  There are very few other 
authors who inspire me to do that, just to share what the author has 
done with the language.  (F. Scott Fitzgerald and Willa Cather are 
two of them, for me.)  I never really feel compelled to do that when 
reading HP, much as I love the books.  The way Pratchett's books are 
constructed, OTOH, drive me nuts.  One event just flows into 
another; I could do with some chapters, thank you very much, some 
structure.  This is obviously NOT his strong point.  (Not 
counting "Good Omens," which he wrote with Neil Gaiman, who has a 
finely honed eye for structure.  I'm reading his "American Gods" 
right now.)

I'm rather mystified about Byatt's inclusion of Cooper in her 
pantheon of authors whose work is to be preferred to Rowlings, as I 
found her Dark Is Rising Sequence to be extraordinarily flat.  It 
had wonderful research and a series of events that could have been 
gripping, but the way the story was told and (especially) the lack 
of depth in the characterizations made me feel the entire time that 
I was skimming along the surface of it.  It never drew me in; it 
always felt more like an academic exercise, investigating what she 
was doing with various British-based myths and legends.  I never 
felt invested in her hero or any of her other characters.  Cooper's 
two books about a boggart are much better for characterization, 
perhaps because, like the HP books, those stories are more about a 
collision between the modern and mythical worlds and the children in 
them feel more authentic and do not lapse into archaic language use 
which feels inauthentic and awkward.

Pullman's "His Dark Materials" trilogy is far superior to Cooper's 
series, in many respects (IMO), but his writing does not grab the 
reader (at least, not this reader) at first.  I had to force myself 
to slog on until I reached "The Amber Spyglass" where, I felt, he 
really hit his stride.  It took two of the three books in the 
trilogy for me to feel that way.  Once I was there, I was very 
impressed with his fully realized world, and the rather daring 
philosophies he was putting forward in what is ostensibly a 
children's book (another categorization that's open to debate).  

But while Pullman's writing is more than competent and certainly 
never awkward, neither does it make one want to bash on reading at 
four in the morning to find out what is going to happen.  He doesn't 
write "page-turners."  Somehow, I think that if a writer's prose and 
plot are compelling you to do that, it's no small thing, and for 
Byatt to disparage that ability is to disregard the art of the Bard 
down through the generations--people have always preferred the story 
that demands that more be told to the one that is the most 
beautifully told.  It's human nature, I believe, to have this 
preference.  The most beautiful language in the world being used in 
the service of a pedestrian story is wasted.

I think that JKR has several strengths, including the ability to 
tell a compelling story, characterization, and the ability to inject 
humor into her stories.  Her humor is more ironic than Pratchett's--
it's very Austen-like, revealing her own bias.  While I don't read 
JKR for her language use, which is actually somewhat awkward at 
times, she is no less adept at creating another world than LeGuin, 
whose prose is lovely but also fails to create characters in the 
Earthsea trilogy who are fully rounded, rather than archetypes (the 
stilted language may be part of why I feel this way).  

That said, I've noticed, especially in OotP, that JKR only lavishes 
her characterization magic on the characters she genuinely likes; 
the Dursleys remain two-dimensional (despite Dudley's girth) except 
for Petunia, who is starting to show hidden depths.  Draco Malfoy 
and his father give no hints about why they feel compelled to be on 
the side they're on.  Her villains still remain lacking, for my 
taste.  I'm still waiting for them to come up to scratch with the 
rest of her characterizations.  This is why Byatt's mention of Dahl 
also mystifies me; while I love many things about Roald Dahl, his 
characterizations are also somewhat cartoonish (the Wormwoods in 
Matilda come to mind, or the aunts in James and the Giant Peach).  
His humor is more biting than JKR's, rather dark at times, and he 
certainly never creates a viable world (two books about Charlie and 
the Chocolate Factory and it still doesn't feel remotely plausible, 
even though it's loads of fun).

I think that the real testimony to whether JKR has managed to create 
a viable world is the fact that so many people around the world feel 
compelled to write in that world.  Fanfiction started a while ago, 
largely with Star Trek fans, but the current explosion of HP 
fanfiction isn't, I believe, just because so many people have read 
the books.  The fact is that as a result of reading them, people 
feel as though they could go through the barrier at King's Cross 
station, that they could find a town in Surrey called Little 
Whinging and a street called Privet Drive, that they could, if they 
looked hard enough and weren't subject to anti-Muggle charms, find 
the Leaky Cauldron and go through it to get to Diagon Alley.  

She has managed to make it all feel so real that it's possible to 
forget that she's making it up--it's more like she's stumbled 
through the barrier at King's Cross herself and is bringing back the 
wizarding world for our delight, and she makes us believe that that 
world goes on even when we're not reading the HP books, that there 
are many, many other stories to be told--about Snape, about the Trio 
when they're grown, about the Founders--that also merely need to be 
discovered and brought back to a waiting world.  Even folks who 
don't dabble in fanfiction feel that world is real enough to discuss 
at great length the laws, the educational system, the social 
structure, the economics, etc., etc.  That is probably JKR's 
greatest gift to us, and if Byatt has utterly missed it, it's 
definitely her loss.

--Barb

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychic_Serpent
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb





From anneu53714 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  9 00:13:25 2003
From: anneu53714 at yahoo.com (Anne)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 00:13:25 -0000
Subject: Byatt's attack on us 
In-Reply-To: <p05200f01bb30fd9cda35@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <befmn5+vdmg@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Jennifer Boggess Ramon 
<boggles at e...> wrote:
> At 7:47 PM +0000 7/8/03, Tim Regan wrote:
> >
> >Essentially, the review says that the reason adults enjoy Harry
> >Potter books is because the books are derivatives of the Enid 
Blyton
> >and Billy Bunter books we enjoyed as kids.
> 
> Wonder what she makes of those of us who didn't read such things 
(are 
> the Nancy Drew and Hardy Boys books the US equivalent?  I didn't 
read 
> them either).

LOL Jennifer, I didn't read Enid Blyton or Billy Bunter books either. 
In fact I never heard of them until I joined this group. Perhaps 
that's because I am :::cough:::older:::cough than the "typical" adult 
HP fan (whoever that is). I did read a lot of Hardy Boys and also, 
even more juvenile, The Bobbsey Twins (anyone else remember the 
lederhosen that Mrs. Bobbsey made for the two sets of twins for their 
bicycle trip??:-) I also read a lot of Louisa May Alcott, Jane 
Austen, and as I got older, Steinbeck, Faulkner, and Hemingway.

>

> Both Pratchett and Tolkien have the advantage that their worlds are 
> wholly constructed by them.  Tolkien's is a constructed mythic past 
> for our world or something quite like it, and Pratchett's is a 
> fast-and-furious parody of everything that was ever based off of 
> Tolkien's (and many other things besides).  Neither is wholly 
> original, but they create mostly-coherent worlds.  Rowling's 
> Potterverse doesn't hang together quite as well, I admit.  Part of 
> that is time - she's spent far less time on it than Tolkien spent 
on 
> Middle-Earth.  Part of that is a mater of circumstance - the 
> Discworld absorbs change very easily, by virtue of its own internal 
> rules, while the Potterverse requires reasons for large changes. 
> Mostly, though, I think it's because the Potterverse takes place 
just 
> outside of our own modern-day world - it has to accommodate not 
only 
> Rowling's universe but the real one, too.  That's a far harder task.
> 
> In some ways, it's easier to depict a numinous world when it's far 
> away in time and space.  The Discworld is both.  Middle-Earth is at 
> least well displaced in time.  The Potterverse is essentially here 
> and now.
> 

I haven't read any Pratchett but I have read the LOTR trilogy, plus 
the world's slowest book, The Silmarillion, many years before Harry 
Potter popped into JKR's head fully formed. Part of what I love about 
the Potterverse is that it IS essentially here and now - the 
Wizarding World is basically a parallel universe to our own. I love 
the way various geographical points in the WW seem to exist in 
between the molecules of the "real world" (Platform 9 3/4, 12 
Grimmauld Place, etc.)


 
> I do wish someone (psst!  Hermione!) would give us more of an idea 
of 
> the metaphysics of magic in the Potterverse.  I do feel that's 
> missing, and it's one of the things that it bugs me that Harry's 
> never worried about.

I don't know about that but I'd STILL love to find out more about 
Hermione's parents/family. Stephen Fry asked about them in the RAH 
interview and all JKR said was something like, "they're dentists; 
they don't really care (about the WW)"... which to me seems like a 
typical JKR red herring. She has constructed elaborate backstories 
and families for both Harry and Ron; why would she NOT do so for 
Hermione?? (My inner Hermione is biting her lip at the "injustice" of 
this particular inconsistency ;-)

> 
> >does the evil in it feel fully three-dimensional?
> 
> If you had asked me this after CoS, I would have answered "no." 
> After GoF, it would have been "maybe."  Now, I think I'd have to 
> answer "yes."  Voldemort himself isn't three-dimensional at all - 
he 
> barely manages two on a good day - but he's not the be-all and 
> end-all of evil in the Potterverse.  There will always be another 
> Evil Overlord around.  Real, lasting harm is in figures like 
Umbridge 
> and Fudge, in beings like the dementors, in the relationships 
between 
> the wizards on the one hand and the house-elves, centaurs, giants, 
> and other beings on the other.
> -- 
> 

Yes, the MoM's attitude during OotP and the end of GoF reminds me of 
the Edmund Burke quotation: "The only thing necessary for the triumph 
of evil is for good men to do nothing."

Anne U
(whose HP fondness goes 5-3-4-1-2)






From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Jul  9 00:44:50 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 00:44:50 -0000
Subject: Central Scotland
Message-ID: <befoi2+blje@eGroups.com>

Apropos of reading Shaun's Astronomy posts, he wrote on the main 
list:

"The acknowledged geographical centre of Scotland (to the nearest 
minute) is 56 49' N 4 11' W - between Blair Atholl and Dalwhinnie."

The nearest minute is about a mile (a nautical mile, in fact).

I was wondering, though, how is the geographical centre of a country 
defined?  Is it a question of cutting out the map, and hanging it by 
the edge at a few points and finding where plumblines hung from 
those points cross (centre of gravity)?

David, who thinks the answer ought to be 'it depends' - the centre 
for radio transmission is different from the centre for goods 
distribution.





From timregan at microsoft.com  Wed Jul  9 01:03:04 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 01:03:04 -0000
Subject: Blyton (was Re: Byatt's attack on us)
In-Reply-To: <befmn5+vdmg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <befpk8+9kar@eGroups.com>

Hi Anne,

--- You wrote:
> I didn't read Enid Blyton or Billy Bunter books either. 
> In fact I never heard of them until I joined this group. Perhaps 
> that's because I am :::cough:::older:::cough than the "typical" 
> adult HP fan (whoever that is). 

Wow - The first Enid Blyton Famous Five book was published in 1942, 
and her first full length novel was 1937. The first Billy Bunter was 
from 1944. But I see online that the Hardy Boys started in 1927 - so 
tha wins hands down!

I've not read Bunter, but I think I did read one Enid Blyton. They 
are part of the fabric of childhood in the UK, so you end up knowing 
of them by osmosis.

Cheers,

Dumbledad




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Wed Jul  9 01:20:42 2003
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:20:42 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Central Scotland
In-Reply-To: <befoi2+blje@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3F0BFA8A.10756.32C12E0@localhost>

On 9 Jul 2003 at 0:44, David wrote:

> Apropos of reading Shaun's Astronomy posts, he wrote on the main 
> list:
> 
> "The acknowledged geographical centre of Scotland (to the nearest 
> minute) is 56 49' N 4 11' W - between Blair Atholl and Dalwhinnie."
> 
> The nearest minute is about a mile (a nautical mile, in fact).
> 
> I was wondering, though, how is the geographical centre of a country 
> defined?  Is it a question of cutting out the map, and hanging it by 
> the edge at a few points and finding where plumblines hung from 
> those points cross (centre of gravity)?
> 
> David, who thinks the answer ought to be 'it depends' - the centre 
> for radio transmission is different from the centre for goods 
> distribution.

The geographical centre is the location of balance is achieved if a plane of 
0 width was placed on a point.

It used to be done by creating a large cardboard cut out and balancing it 
on a point - similar to the idea you've given here. Today, it's generally 
done by computer - point locations for the entire border are inputed into a 
computer and then averaged.

The precise location of the geographical centre will depend on the 
resolution for the border locations - if you use border locations 10 
kilometres apart, the central position will be slightly different than if you 
use border locations 1 kilometre apart.

Today, for Scotland, they use a very high resolution for this calculation - I'e 
given the location to the nearest minute, but they have worked it out well 
below the nearest second. Nearest minute is easily good enough for my 
purposes - especially as there is some margin for error.

You are certainly correct that the location needs to be determined 
differently for different purposes - that's why I specifically referred to the 
'geographical centre'.

It's just a point for interest - it used to be done as an exercise to show how 
skilled surveyors were - today, it's just a piece of fun with no real validity, 
and is somewhat arbitrary. But it's good enough as a rough location for 
rough astronomical calculations. If you have to choose a point, may as well 
be near the middle.

I'm now redoing them based on the more likely locations mentioned on the 
main list.

Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in 
common. They
don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit
the views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the
facts that need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From linlou43 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  9 01:21:43 2003
From: linlou43 at yahoo.com (linlou43)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 01:21:43 -0000
Subject: other childrens literature
In-Reply-To: <befpk8+9kar@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <befqn7+61uk@eGroups.com>


Dumble dad wrote:

> I've not read Bunter, but I think I did read one Enid Blyton. They 
> are part of the fabric of childhood in the UK, so you end up 
knowing 
> of them by osmosis.


      I had never heard of Bunter or Enid Blyton until this thread. 
As an American, I started with the Bobsey Twins, progressed to the 
Trixie Belden Series(Anybody else remember those?), then moved on to 
Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys. These were my *just for the fun of it 
reading*. I also spent a lot of time reading and re-reading the 
Chronicals of Narnia etc. before I started moving on to the 
*clasics*. While taking a break from a previous job as a restaurant 
supervisor, I was asked if I had gone back to school- I had taken 
the Illiad out of the library for a  *bit of light reading* (ala 
Hermione). I was the type of kid whose mother had to admonish her 
to "Put down the book and do your math home work." LOL

  -linlou




From rvotaw at i-55.com  Wed Jul  9 01:47:40 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:47:40 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] For the Love of Harry
References: <befiau+kar3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <013901c345bc$17a95f50$299ccdd1@RVotaw>

grindieloe wrote:

>      I thoroughly enjoy spending free time here (and on the main group of 
> course) reading posts, resonding, and feeling as though there are people out 
> there who enjoy Harry Potter as I do.  However, is anyone else frustrated with 
> the lack of actual people where you live to discuss with?  I would love to 

Yes, I know exactly what you mean.  I've been cramming HP down my mom's throat, and if I'm lucky I get an "Mmmhmm" response.  Brilliant discussion.  Just this week (finished today, in fact) I've orally retold the entirety of OoP to my friend who I teach with.  We've been riding back and forth to workshops together.  She very excitedly told me that she was at a friend's house and read the first chapter and a half of OoP.  Even though she hasn't read the books, we had a semi educated discussion as I retold.  When I got to Harry trying to contact Sirius through the fire, her first response was "Why didn't he use the mirror?" And she appreciated all the sad irony later on when it's clear he should have.  She gasped in all the right places, and nearly died when my cell phone rang right between Bellatrix LeStrange's first and second curse to Sirius.  We had a nice discussion about the prophecy, and tomorrow I said I'd bring Dumbledore's bit to Harry about the power the dark lord knows not.  Gotta have something handy to study when the workshop gets boring. :)

Okay, that went on too long, but basically, yes, I would LOVE to have someone in person to discuss this with.  I'm slowly converting one, maybe!

Richelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From emelinemoore at mianla.net  Wed Jul  9 01:58:52 2003
From: emelinemoore at mianla.net (Emeline Moore)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 01:58:52 -0000
Subject: Really O/T ... How to put cassette audio on a CD?
Message-ID: <befsss+c3st@eGroups.com>

Hey,

I was wondering, if anyone that knew how, could explain to me, how 
to transfer audio from a cassette to a CD-R(W)?

Thanks!
Emeline




From unfauxpas at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  9 02:51:20 2003
From: unfauxpas at yahoo.com (faux pas)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:51:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] For the Love of Harry
In-Reply-To: <befiau+kar3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030709025120.4784.qmail@web40008.mail.yahoo.com>


--- grindieloe <andie at knownet.net> wrote:
>  :)  Anyway, do you guys 
> also find the lack of actual warm bodies fit for
> discussion frustrating ... or is it 
> just me???
> 
No, it's not just you. My DH has read the books and
will listen to my comments but I think he's just being
nice. On the down side, I have to listen to his
comments about the lists he's on (mandolin and another
writer).

My son (9 years old) is reading OOP at the moment but
he doesn't have the ability to get deeply into some of
the heavier ideas that float around here. He has come
up with a couple of interesting ideas that I plan on
posting if the list ever slows down.

So, yes, it would be nice to talk with real live
people about Harry for a change. 

faux
in west Michigan

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com



From boggles at earthlink.net  Wed Jul  9 03:00:39 2003
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:00:39 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] For the Love of Harry
In-Reply-To: <befiau+kar3@eGroups.com>
References: <befiau+kar3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <p05200f03bb313528defa@[192.168.1.100]>

At 10:58 PM +0000 7/8/03, grindieloe wrote:
>Anyway, do you guys
>also find the lack of actual warm bodies fit for discussion 
>frustrating ... or is it just me???

It's just you.  ;)  (Sorry, I had to say that.)

Most of my friends have read the books, although I'm probably one of 
the most fanatical about them in my immediate circle.  However, being 
a geek, a freak, and a weirdo, I hang out with same, and we're 
slightly less worried about what the neighbors will think if we're 
reading a "children's" book than the average Muggle.

-- 

  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles(at)earthlink.net
"It is not knowledge, but the act of learning, not possession but the 
act of getting there, which grants the greatest enjoyment. "
	- Gauss, in a Letter to Bolyai, 1808.



From Chasewildstar at comcast.net  Wed Jul  9 03:47:24 2003
From: Chasewildstar at comcast.net (Chase Wildstar)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:47:24 -0400
Subject: School letters
Message-ID: <008b01c345cc$cf9b1d00$9c01f50c@mac>


Well, After asking in several groups if any website contained the school letter info, I spent the last 3 hours tonight, reading the various parts of all 5 books, and manualy typing in the data, into microsoft publisher so that I could get my color printer to print out some customized letters for myself.

I am disappointed to inform all, that Year 4, does not contain any information as to what books were required for that year. And, in year 3, nothing in the UK or US version indicates what the permission form looked like.
Year 5 only has 2 new requirements of course.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From terryljames at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  9 04:12:33 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 23:12:33 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] For the Love of Harry
Message-ID: <BAY8-F59EUEiffC8aH500006261@hotmail.com>


>From: "grindieloe" <andie at knownet.net>

  However, is anyone else frustrated with
>the lack of actual people where you live to discuss with?


It's not just you.  As mentioned before, my DH is not a reader of anything, 
does not read, will not read ever.  He thinks I am bizarrely obsessed (not 
that I am arguing with that assessment...) And of my kids, one daughter is 
at the "Finding Nemo" stage, and the other one is at the blanket-and-binky 
stage.  It'll be a while before I can inflict HP on either one of them.

And most of my grown-up friends either think it's Satanic or childish.  I 
don't know which is more annoying...


>grindieloe
>(who is currently shouting possible discussion questions at my neighbors 
>and
>getting only funny looks in return)


I have a mental image here...LOL!

Terry LJ

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail




From trinity61us at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  9 04:22:58 2003
From: trinity61us at yahoo.com (alex fox)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:22:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] For the Love of Harry (MY geekdom)
In-Reply-To: <p05200f03bb313528defa@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <20030709042258.64201.qmail@web14913.mail.yahoo.com>

I carry a pic of my computer room with me at all times. The wall is covered in life-size stand-ups of the trio and DD, numerous posters and downloads, and I have a life -size Harry on his Nimbus 2000. I used to work at WalMart, and bugged the electronics manager till I got them all. I have a tattoo of the HP logo on my right outside calf. Now tell me that there is no one to talk to! People stop me and talk to me about my tat! Then I show them the pic! I have made several HP friends by being so weird!  By the way, I'm 42. LOL!  A biker-chick geek!  Can't wait till I get a custom paint job on a new Harley! HP all the way! Licence plate: LUCIUS
 
Alex Fox
 
 
 
 
 
 


Jennifer Boggess Ramon <boggles at earthlink.net> wrote:
At 10:58 PM +0000 7/8/03, grindieloe wrote:
>Anyway, do you guys
>also find the lack of actual warm bodies fit for discussion 
>frustrating ... or is it just me???

It's just you.  ;)  (Sorry, I had to say that.)

Most of my friends have read the books, although I'm probably one of 
the most fanatical about them in my immediate circle.  However, being 
a geek, a freak, and a weirdo, I hang out with same, and we're 
slightly less worried about what the neighbors will think if we're 
reading a "children's" book than the average Muggle.

-- 

  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon                  boggles(at)earthlink.net
"It is not knowledge, but the act of learning, not possession but the 
act of getting there, which grants the greatest enjoyment. "
      - Gauss, in a Letter to Bolyai, 1808.

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________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

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From jillily3g at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  9 04:58:11 2003
From: jillily3g at yahoo.com (Beth)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 04:58:11 -0000
Subject: other childrens literature
In-Reply-To: <befqn7+61uk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <beg7d3+6e7n@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "linlou43" <linlou43 at y...> 
wrote:
> 
>       I had never heard of Bunter or Enid Blyton until this 
thread. 
> As an American, I started with the Bobsey Twins, progressed to the 
> Trixie Belden Series(Anybody else remember those?), then moved on 
to 
> Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys. These were my *just for the fun of 
it 
> reading*. I also spent a lot of time reading and re-reading the 
> Chronicals of Narnia etc. before I started moving on to the 
> *clasics*. 

Trixie Belden! I owned the series through 30-something until my 
oldest decided she wasn't interested and the only place to store 
them was in the garage and... well, you know. Even before they were 
giveaways at my garage sale (sniff!), the school librarian refused 
them.  "They're kind of... dated, aren't they?"

Yeah, and Nancy Drew with her page boy haircut driving her jalopy is 
fresh.

In sixth grade, I too read and re-read the Chronicles of Narnia, but 
you know, when I started reading them aloud to my girls I realized 
how much I've forgotten. 

Beth, who read anything her mom would bring home from garage sales, 
but never heard of Bunter or Blyton, either!




From timregan at microsoft.com  Wed Jul  9 05:02:20 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 05:02:20 -0000
Subject: School letters
In-Reply-To: <008b01c345cc$cf9b1d00$9c01f50c@mac>
Message-ID: <beg7ks+k8rd@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter, "Chase Wildstar" wrote:

> I am disappointed to inform all, that Year 4, 
> does not contain any information as to what 
> books were required for that year. 

I found one:

"Hermione was immersed in The Standard Book of Spells, Grade 
4,copies of which Mrs. Weasley had bought for her, Harry, and Ron in 
Diagon Alley." (GoF USA p. 96)

There are others that aren't required like:

"He held up the book: Magical Water Plants of the Mediterranean." 
(GoF USA p.143)

""Let's try some simple spellbooks, then," said Harry, throwing 
aside Men Who Love Dragons Too Much." (GoF USA p. 219)

"Hermione had given Harry a book called Quidditch Teams of Britain 
and Ireland;" (GoF USA p 266)

"Harry opened his eyes. He was still in the library; the 
Invisibility Cloak had slipped off his head as he'd slept, and the 
side of his face was stuck to the pages of Where There's a Wand, 
There's a Way. He sat up, straightening his glasses, blinking in the 
bright daylight." (GoF USA p.317)

"Then, as he strode down a long, straight path, he saw movement once 
again, and his beam of wandlight hit an extraordinary creature, one 
which he had only seen in picture form, in his Monster Book of 
Monsters." (GoF USA p. 406)

But the Rolls Royce of book lists has to be the one on the lexicon 
<http://www.hp-lexicon.org/books.html>, wow.

Cheers,

Dumbledad (who really should stop procrastinating and write his 
annual performance review, yuck)





From Chasewildstar at comcast.net  Wed Jul  9 05:31:05 2003
From: Chasewildstar at comcast.net (Chase Wildstar)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:31:05 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: School letters
References: <beg7ks+k8rd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001301c345db$4b412220$9c01f50c@mac>

Yeah Tim, I kinda figured the standard book of spells grade 4 was a
requirement, but
there isn't any mention at the beginning of the book, nor during classes
which
books they were using..

The other books mentioned, all deal with helping harry figure out his
problem, or
with hagrids up comming legal battles over buckbeak.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tim Regan" <timregan at microsoft.com>
To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 1:02 AM
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: School letters


> Hi All,
>
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter, "Chase Wildstar" wrote:
>
> > I am disappointed to inform all, that Year 4,
> > does not contain any information as to what
> > books were required for that year.
>
> I found one:
>
> "Hermione was immersed in The Standard Book of Spells, Grade
> 4,copies of which Mrs. Weasley had bought for her, Harry, and Ron in
> Diagon Alley." (GoF USA p. 96)
>
> There are others that aren't required like:
>
> "He held up the book: Magical Water Plants of the Mediterranean."
> (GoF USA p.143)
>
> ""Let's try some simple spellbooks, then," said Harry, throwing
> aside Men Who Love Dragons Too Much." (GoF USA p. 219)
>
> "Hermione had given Harry a book called Quidditch Teams of Britain
> and Ireland;" (GoF USA p 266)
>
> "Harry opened his eyes. He was still in the library; the
> Invisibility Cloak had slipped off his head as he'd slept, and the
> side of his face was stuck to the pages of Where There's a Wand,
> There's a Way. He sat up, straightening his glasses, blinking in the
> bright daylight." (GoF USA p.317)
>
> "Then, as he strode down a long, straight path, he saw movement once
> again, and his beam of wandlight hit an extraordinary creature, one
> which he had only seen in picture form, in his Monster Book of
> Monsters." (GoF USA p. 406)
>
> But the Rolls Royce of book lists has to be the one on the lexicon
> <http://www.hp-lexicon.org/books.html>, wow.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dumbledad (who really should stop procrastinating and write his
> annual performance review, yuck)
>
>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material
from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- 
MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
> Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>




From rvotaw at i-55.com  Wed Jul  9 11:41:38 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:41:38 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: other childrens literature
References: <beg7d3+6e7n@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <006c01c3460f$0f594bf0$4e9dcdd1@RVotaw>

Beth wrote:

> Trixie Belden! I owned the series through 30-something until my 
> Yeah, and Nancy Drew with her page boy haircut driving her jalopy is 
> fresh.

You know, I was the weird kid who didn't like Trixie Belden or Nancy Drew.  I read a few Nancy Drew books, but I prefered the Hardy Boys.  I read all of the original books, and many of the newer ones.  I liked the Bobbsey Twins way, way back.  Have all the Boxcar Children books.  I keep them in my classroom, though they're too advanced for my particular first graders, though I was that age when I started reading them.  Had Babysitter Club books galore.  And Star Trek novels.  Yes, all at the same time. :)

Richelle



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From ibotsjfvxfst at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Jul  9 12:55:19 2003
From: ibotsjfvxfst at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Ivan=20Vablatsky?=)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:55:19 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [HPforGrownups] More insight into Snape/Snape's challenge
In-Reply-To: <beh0cd+c1vj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030709125519.95213.qmail@web21510.mail.yahoo.com>

MarEphraim wrote to HPforGrownups:
 
Hey Hans, from where do you get your knowledge of alchemy? What are the sources for info on it?

My reaction: 
 
There isn't a quick answer to that.
 
I have been a lifelong student of this subject. If you're really interested in something you automatically pick up clues. You look up books, websites, you listen to conversations, you meet people, and so on.
 
To become interested in liberation you have to experience this world as a prison first. You have to feel there's more to life than being born, growing, flowering, reproducing and dying. You have to long to find the purpose of life. 
You begin to suspect there's more to life than this perceptible three dimensional world. You reach the insight that this planet is one great lunatic asylum. And who are the guards? We ourselves are. If this is a lunatic asylum it means there must also be a place that isn't. You begin to search. Books are the obvious place to begin.
I read books by theologians, spiritualists, yogis, Theosophists, Anthroposophists, Rosicrucians, you name it. I attended Revival Crusades, Seances, Yoga sessions, public lectures by Tom, Dick and Harry. 
It's a painful journey at first, as you discover many groups are out to further imprison you in their own little cell. But after a while you learn to listen with your heart. There's a magic tuning fork in there that helps you tell whether the song you hear is Lorelei's evil but seductive strain, or the truth. Well, at least a shard of the truth, as the full truth can never be contained.
You discover that there's a secret escape hatch in the prison. It's where you've never thought of looking before: upwards. When you discover that escape hatch it's like the first smell of freesias in spring. Your heart nearly jumps out of your chest. You begin to yearn for the way out with all your heart. And that's the key: As soon as your heart emits the call for freedom an answer comes. It's as if someone's been waiting all that time for you to turn upwards and ask to come back up. When that magic moment has come, you receive the letter of invitation to Hogwarts. 
On the letter are listed seven books. 
 
I hope some of this makes sense. Our heart is like a magnet. If we really want something, then it will be attracted to us by the power of desire. Then we will automatically find the right books and people to help us. We all have access to the Room of Requirement if we really and deeply desire it.
 
I'm not trying to tease you; the point is that with this subject the only way to go is to have the longing for liberation. Without it you'll get nowhere; with it you'll find the Way. That's the flying key in PS/SS!
 
However, I will give you the names of some authors and books that helped me in my quest for spiritual alchemy.
 
Mme Blavatsky's "Isis Unveiled" was a real eye-opener. She also wrote "The Secret Doctrine".
 
Max Heindel wrote some wonderful books, and Rudolf Steiner I found fascinating, if a bit dry.
 
One of the most powerful books on the subject of alchemy is "The Alchemical Wedding of Christian Rosycross, (esoteric analysis of the Chymische Hochzeit Christiani Rosencreuzt anno 1459)" by Jan van Rijckenborgh (ISBN 90 6732 058 7).
 
Feel free to email me privately if you need any more clues.
 
Good luck with your quest.
 
Hans
 

 
 



---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From kirst_inn at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Jul  9 14:06:38 2003
From: kirst_inn at yahoo.co.uk (Kirstini)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:06:38 -0000
Subject: For the Love of Harry
In-Reply-To: <BAY8-F59EUEiffC8aH500006261@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <beh7he+om53@eGroups.com>

Grindieloe:  However, is anyone else frustrated with
> >the lack of actual people where you live to discuss with?

***
I have quite a few HP fans to discuss with in everyday life. 
Sometimes, however, I find actually discussing HP with them more 
frustrating than I think I'd feel if it were just me. 
I'm a post-graduate, and most of my friends are also post-graduates. 
Most of them work, like me, in literature studies. Our social lives 
tend to revolve, sadly, around the consumption of alcohol in houses, 
public and private. Post-OoP, we increasingly find ourselves in 
situations where, after either cooking each other dinner and 
drinking a few bottles of wine, or going out to the pub, we sit 
around and yowl Potter at each other. Three days ago I found myself 
facing down a five-way onslaught as I tried to convince people that 
Umbridge was just as evil as Voldemort, and this was one of the 
major themes of OoP (you know, the theory that I've been trotting 
out in various forms on the main list pretty much daily). However, 
I'm beginning to find their discussion frustrating, as they trot out 
every single one of the FAQs and I begin to snap things like "Well, 
I've read the books more than ANY of you, and I can tell you that in 
chapter Seven of GoF, she mentions some middle-aged American witches 
gossiping happily under a banner that reads 'The Salem Witches 
Institute!'". I feel that HPfGU has spoilt me a little. My friends 
are all now very eager to discuss OoP, having finally finished it, 
but I sometimes appear to theorising WAY over their heads, because 
of all the potential discussion paths the list has formed in my 
brain. I actually found myself saying "Oh come on - FLORENCE! You 
must remember that bit!" the other day.
My dear partner, on the other hand, the person who got me reading HP 
in the first place, frustrated me all the more by refusing to 
discuss any possibilities whatsoever before OoP came out. He thought 
I was trying to spoil his anticipation. We had a large argument one 
night about  three days before the release of OoP because I asked 
him who he thought would die, and he said "Oh, thanks a lot. Now I 
know someone's going to die." At this point, obviously, I throttled 
him. I really don't understand the mentality of non-speculators at 
all.
Kirstini
Intolerance Central.




From ression at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  9 17:41:51 2003
From: ression at hotmail.com (ER)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 17:41:51 -0000
Subject: Byatt's attack on us
In-Reply-To: <befmn5+vdmg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <behk4v+co4d@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Anne" <anneu53714 at y...> 
wrote:
> 
> LOL Jennifer, I didn't read Enid Blyton or Billy Bunter books 
either. 
> In fact I never heard of them until I joined this group. Perhaps 
> that's because I am :::cough:::older:::cough than the "typical" 
adult 
> HP fan (whoever that is). I did read a lot of Hardy Boys ...

Ah, you don't know what you're missing! Who could forget The Fat Owl 
of the Remove or the Famous Five. As Dumbledad said, Brits of a 
certain age (and we oldsters must stick together :) were brought up 
on them one way or another!

I recommend reading one of the Famous Five books (there were lots) if 
you enjoy a good laugh. They were written in the 40s and the 50s (and 
maybe the 60s, not sure) and reflect a time when Britain still had a 
Navy and an Empire (more or less) and all was right with the world. 
They are about 4 children and a dog - the Famous Five - who get into 
all sorts of spiffing adventures, generally before the end of Chapter-
1.

Julian is the oldest and is somewhat of a Percy - he likes rules and 
he likes to abide by them and is terribly serious about serious 
things. I think he scolded the others for riding three-abreast on 
their bicycles, when the Highway Code expressly forbids such cavalier 
behaviour. Dick, the next eldest, is a Ron. Nuff said :) The youngest 
is Anne, who is also the cleverest academically, so a budding 
Hermione there. Except her main ambitions in life are to make the 
beds, wash the pots, prepare meals for the others and generally be a 
good little housewife. Naturally! The joker in the pack is Georgina, 
who is a tomboy. She even thinks she is every bit as good as a boy, 
but Julian or Dick frequently put her right on this score, while Anne 
looks anxiously on :)

Exclamation marks abound! Everywhere! To make it more exciting! And 
it is!

Parents don't figure that much. Our intrepid chums are all at good 
schools (i.e. boarding schools, though these don't play any part in 
the stories), but as soon as they come home for the hols ("wizard, no 
more prep or Greek or algebra for four whole weeks!") mysterious 
calamities befall the parental household - Fathers (who are brilliant 
scientists) have to zoom off to conferences taking Mothers with them, 
trees fall on houses rendering them uninhabitable for (phew) four 
weeks, scarlet fever strikes just before the children are due home 
and the whole household is in quarantine. And so, the Five are packed 
off to mysterious cottages, deserted lighthouses, mysterious deserted 
moors etc etc. Let the adventure begin! I doubt that they see their 
parents for more than two or three weeks a year - so, a bit like 
Hermione then ;)

The villains are cardboard cut-outs and obvious - anybody scruffy, 
gypsies (apart from loveable ragamuffin orphans who are utterly loyal 
to the Five who finally get them into "a good home") and foreigners. 
Especially foreigners! In the early books I think they mostly came 
across as Germanic, but in the later books Eastern Europeans seem to 
creep in. There are even occasional seemingly-decent Englishmen who 
turn out to be villains, which appals Julian!

If you can find them on Amazon or in the bargain bins of your local 
second-hand bookshop then I recommend trying one for a good laugh or, 
if you're a Brit, to wallow in the land that time forgot :) The Fat 
Owl will have to wait for another day. Too much reminiscing in one 
day is not good for you. Sigh.

Now, who the heck are the Hardy Boys? Cousins of the Five? :)

ER





From timregan at microsoft.com  Wed Jul  9 18:38:40 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 18:38:40 -0000
Subject: Frugal Tips
In-Reply-To: <behl5m+h6l5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <behnfg+o28h@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter Cindy wrote:
> Frugal Tips To Save You Money!
> http://www.frugalsimplicity.com/frugaltips.html

Gosh - adverts on HPFGU-OTChatter, I hope that's not a sign of spam 
to come. But I do really agree with Cindy's tip:

"Don't shop for groceries when you're hungry. You end up buying more 
than you intended. Make a grocery list before leaving the house. 
Then stick to it!"

When we lived in the UK our local supermarket (Tesco) started doing 
online shopping with delivery. Although the delivery charge was ?5 
(about $7.50) we saved money hand-over-fist. The reason was that we 
could easily follow our list, and keep a running total of how much 
we'd spent. So if we went over budget we just unchecked purchases. 
Brilliant.

Cindy - I do think you should include some tongue-in-cheek savings 
tips. On one of the reare occasions I read a copy of Viz 
<http://www.viz.co.uk/>, it contained the fabulous money saving tip:

"Why waste money on expensive binoculars - stand closer to what you 
are looking at."

Cheers,

Dumbledad.




From kelleythompson at gbronline.com  Wed Jul  9 19:17:38 2003
From: kelleythompson at gbronline.com (Kelley)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 19:17:38 -0000
Subject: Frugal Tips
In-Reply-To: <behnfg+o28h@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <behpoi+3jsj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tim Regan" <timregan at m...> 
wrote:

> Gosh - adverts on HPFGU-OTChatter, I hope that's not a sign of spam 
> to come. But I do really agree with Cindy's tip: >>>>


Hehheh!  Tim!  Don't *encourage* her.  ;-D  

Message deleted.  Sorry for the spam, folks.


--Kelley




From dancingtai at earthlink.net  Wed Jul  9 20:20:00 2003
From: dancingtai at earthlink.net (Karen)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 20:20:00 -0000
Subject: OotP Art-fest
Message-ID: <behtdg+7jq2@eGroups.com>

Hiya,
 
Sorry for the crosspost and for appearing out of nowhere. ^^; I'm 
posting to let you know about the OotP Art Fest. It's a project kin 
to the fuh-q-fests, except this time it's for the artists. This is a 
major project between Miaka (from phoenixtears.com) and I. Our goal 
is to fully illustrate the fifth Harry Potter book by means of 
quality fanworks created by a wide-range of talented artists. You 
don't have to be the HP fan version of Michaelangelo but we're asking 
for finished work that took some effort. The fest will take place in 
two waves - the first wave is for the first half of the book and 
contains 90 scene challenges and a few new character portrait 
challenges as well. 

If you're interested and want more information, you can check out the 
Art-fest page at: 
http://www.phoenixtears.myrmid.net/artfestootp/

You can pick as many challenges as you wish.

Not much of an artist but would like to help out? We'd be grateful 
for help in getting the word out. Spreading the word (forwarding this 
email?) or adding a linked Art Fest button (they're on the promote 
page on the site) on your page would help us out a lot. The more 
folks that know, the more illustrations for the book!

If you've got any questions or comments, you can email me at: 
dancingtai at earthlink.net

We're happy to say that we're getting a good steady response. =) Come 
participate and help make the fest a success! Thanks a bunch for 
reading. 

Take care,

Karen
http://sweetcandy.us





From linlou43 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  9 23:10:11 2003
From: linlou43 at yahoo.com (linlou43)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 23:10:11 -0000
Subject: Byatt's attack on us
In-Reply-To: <behk4v+co4d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bei7cj+a9nm@eGroups.com>

ER asked?
 
> Now, who the heck are the Hardy Boys? Cousins of the Five? :)

    The Hardy boys are mystery books starring the teenage brother 
detectives Frank and Joe Hardy. Thier father was a detective with 
the FBI and his sons were eager to follow in his foot steps. They 
got into a new adventure every book and the good guys always one. 
For the young girls, there's the Nancy Drew adventures. Basically 
the same kind of stories but from a more feminine POV. Nancy's 
father is a widowed criminal attorney and they have a live-in 
housekeeper named Hannah who loves Nancy like she were her own. As 
an adult they seem more sappy and campy than enchanting but then...

   Anyway, the books you descibe sound more like the Bobsey Twins 
series. There were two sets of twins, both fraternal. The older set 
were Nan and Bert(both dark haired). The younger were Freddie and 
Flossie(blonde curls). They had more of the type of romping 
adventures you describe. Also, the sibling interaction added that 
extra level to the series. 

   hope that helps-linlou




From yellows at aol.com  Thu Jul 10 02:18:12 2003
From: yellows at aol.com (yellows at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 22:18:12 -0400
Subject: Room of Requirement
Message-ID: <0F39BBF8.20DD4282.001B530F@aol.com>

Hello, everyone!  :)  I'm still making my way (slowly and carefully and savoring every last word) through the end of OoP, so I haven't been seen lately on the Main List. But I wanted to pop in for a moment to ask if anyone's been to the new EZBoards place called The Room of Requirement. There are a bunch of younger people on there, but the age gap seems to be spreading. Anyway, I've been having loads of fun playing on there lately. It's a cool little recreation of Hogwarts, with a sorting, houses, classes, jobs, the Ministry, Gringott's, etc. I just thought some of you might enjoy it as well and I decided to spread the word! Here's the address:
http://pub219.ezboard.com/broomofrequirement
By the way, I sincerely hope this isn't *too* off-topic for off-topic.  :)  I mostly post on the Main List, so I don't know the particulars of OTChatter. 
See you all again when I finish OoP!  :)

Brief Chronicles (Eponine P in the Room of Requirement)



From dradamsapple at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 10 05:11:46 2003
From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 05:11:46 -0000
Subject: Identity crisis
Message-ID: <beisii+ejdk@eGroups.com>

Well, I decided to post this to this group as I think we may have a 
variety of interesting answers.

I was recently shopping when a store clerk noticed my HP logo on my 
key chain.  She was very excited to tell me that her mother was an HP 
fanatic as well, (and she was not that young either; yeah to older HP 
fans!)  In the course of conversation, she mentioned that her mom was 
an"HP trekkie" (?sp) Well, I reminded her that "trekkie" came from 
Star Trek, which she recognized and acknowledged, but proceeded to 
ask me, "Well, what do you all call yourselves?"  I just stood there, 
speechless, and as I'm not really quick on the comeback, just 
said "Uh, Potterites?".

So, does anyone have anything better than this?  (I seem to have this 
mental picture of all of us standing in clay pots, like mandrakes, 
screaming that we want more H/D!  Cassie and Rhysenn, where are you?)

Any thoughts?? 8)

Anna . . .(who wishes she will live as long and mentally stable as 
Stanley Kunitz (again, sp?), an American Poet Laureate)

 




From tongapeach at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 10 05:36:47 2003
From: tongapeach at yahoo.com (tongapeach)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 05:36:47 -0000
Subject: For the Love of Harry
In-Reply-To: <013901c345bc$17a95f50$299ccdd1@RVotaw>
Message-ID: <beiu1f+2qj5@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Richelle Votaw" 
<rvotaw at i...> wrote:
> Yes, I know exactly what you mean.  I've been cramming HP down my 
>mom's throat, and if I'm lucky I get an "Mmmhmm" response.  
>Brilliant discussion.  

heh, sounds like me. I cram it down anyone who stops long enough to 
listen, and managed to get one of my best friends addicted to the 
series. What I can't stand is that I'm perfectly willing to discuss 
things that interest them, even if I find it less than interesting, 
however I feel slighted that they don't seem to want to discuss one 
of my favorite topics with me! I feel so left out. *pouts*

>We've been riding back and forth to workshops together. <--> Gotta 
have something handy to study when the workshop gets boring. :)

Workshops? You teach? What grade/s?

> Okay, that went on too long, but basically, yes, I would LOVE to 
>have someone in person to discuss this with.  I'm slowly converting 
>one, maybe!

Oh yes, I am in desperate desire to have someone around that I can 
chat with any time about HP. My friend that I converted lives about 3 
hours away and I don't know any other Potterfans around here.




From tongapeach at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 10 05:47:54 2003
From: tongapeach at yahoo.com (tongapeach)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 05:47:54 -0000
Subject: other childrens literature
In-Reply-To: <006c01c3460f$0f594bf0$4e9dcdd1@RVotaw>
Message-ID: <beiuma+mkj9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Richelle Votaw" 
<rvotaw at i...> wrote:

>Have all the Boxcar Children books.  I keep them in my classroom, 
>though they're too advanced for my particular first graders, though 
>I was that age when I started reading them. 

Ah, the Boxcar Children. I still remember when my mother told me the 
delightful Ms. Warner was no longer among the living. A truely 
terrible day for me... the delusions of youth.

So, first grade huh? I'm still in school- not for much longer though. 
I've been student/assistant teaching grades K-2 so far. I think my 
classroom of 2cd graders have by far been my favorite group... and I 
think most of that was the way the classroom was managed.

Tonga 




From jo.sturgess at btopenworld.com  Thu Jul 10 07:12:26 2003
From: jo.sturgess at btopenworld.com (mooseming)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:12:26 -0000
Subject: Identity crisis
In-Reply-To: <beisii+ejdk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bej3kq+3h7j@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "dradamsapple"
<dradamsapple at y...> wrote:
> Well, I decided to post this to this group as I think we may have a 
> variety of interesting answers.
> 
> I was recently shopping when a store clerk noticed my HP logo on my 
> key chain.  She was very excited to tell me that her mother was an HP 
> fanatic as well, (and she was not that young either; yeah to older HP 
> fans!)  In the course of conversation, she mentioned that her mom was 
> an"HP trekkie" (?sp) Well, I reminded her that "trekkie" came from 
> Star Trek, which she recognized and acknowledged, but proceeded to 
> ask me, "Well, what do you all call yourselves?"  I just stood there, 
> speechless, and as I'm not really quick on the comeback, just 
> said "Uh, Potterites?".
> 
> So, does anyone have anything better than this?  (I seem to have this 
> mental picture of all of us standing in clay pots, like mandrakes, 
> screaming that we want more H/D!  Cassie and Rhysenn, where are you?)
> 
> Any thoughts?? 8)
> 

Well there's the descriptive "Potties"
Or then from Hogwarts the inclusive "Warties"
Or more laterally, from HP as in sauce "Saucies"

So maybe Potty warty saucies?

Jo
> Anna . . .(who wishes she will live as long and mentally stable as 
> Stanley Kunitz (again, sp?), an American Poet Laureate)




From Chasewildstar at comcast.net  Thu Jul 10 07:29:43 2003
From: Chasewildstar at comcast.net (Chase Wildstar)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 03:29:43 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Identity crisis
References: <beisii+ejdk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <002901c346b5$08552ad0$9c01f50c@mac>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dradamsapple" <dradamsapple at yahoo.com>
To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 1:11 AM
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Identity crisis


> Well, I decided to post this to this group as I think we may have a 
> variety of interesting answers.
> 
> I was recently shopping when a store clerk noticed my HP logo on my 
> key chain.  She was very excited to tell me that her mother was an HP 
> fanatic as well, (and she was not that young either; yeah to older HP 
> fans!)  In the course of conversation, she mentioned that her mom was 
> an"HP trekkie" (?sp) Well, I reminded her that "trekkie" came from 
> Star Trek, which she recognized and acknowledged, but proceeded to 
> ask me, "Well, what do you all call yourselves?"  I just stood there, 
> speechless, and as I'm not really quick on the comeback, just 
> said "Uh, Potterites?".
> 
> So, does anyone have anything better than this?  (I seem to have this 
> mental picture of all of us standing in clay pots, like mandrakes, 
> screaming that we want more H/D!  Cassie and Rhysenn, where are you?)
> 
> Any thoughts?? 8)
>

Yeah, I call mysef a wizard, due to 2 things, 1, I'm a big HP fan
and 2, im wiccian. 




From macloudt at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 10 13:41:09 2003
From: macloudt at hotmail.com (Mary Ann)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:41:09 -0000
Subject: Kiddie Lit
In-Reply-To: <behk4v+co4d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bejqdl+l41s@eGroups.com>

ER wrote:

> I recommend reading one of the Famous Five books (there were lots) 
if 
> you enjoy a good laugh.

<snip spiffy character assessments>

Yes, a good laugh, and a good groan!  I came across the Famous Five 
books when I was about 10 and living in Monreal, and I loved them.  
In fact I spent many weeks' pocket money buying more adventures 
whenever possible, and I even had 3 Dutch versions from when I went 
to The Olde Country to visit relatives.  Yes, I had them in two 
languages, sad little bugger that I am.

I recently reread one of the books (they live in my daughter's 
bookcase; yes, I kept them) and they are *so* awful!  But chances are 
that, once my kids are old enough to read them, they'll love them, 
too.  And they gave me hours of entertainment when I was young, and 
that's the important point, isn't it?

I also indulged in the Bobbsey Twins and Nancy Drew before that, but 
I didn't bring those books with me when I moved to England.  Hey, I 
have *some* pride. ;)

Books from my youth that I did bring with me are all my Judy Blume 
books.  I recently reread one of those books (Iggy's House) as well, 
and was stunned by Blume's excellent storytelling and emotional 
storylines.  I'm glad I kept these books because none of my 
contemporaries in England have heard of Blume.

Oh, and my Little House books.  I reread those very year, and must 
buy some new copies soon as they're literally falling apart.

Mary Ann :) 




From wgouine1 at mac.com  Thu Jul 10 13:57:38 2003
From: wgouine1 at mac.com (Peter Paul)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:57:38 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Identity crisis
In-Reply-To: <beisii+ejdk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <77363049-B2DE-11D7-A1DE-0003935103DC@mac.com>


On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 01:11  AM, dradamsapple wrote:

> So, does anyone have anything better than this?? (I seem to have this
> mental picture of all of us standing in clay pots


I have always defined myself as a "lit geek", but would welcome some 
magical moniker


Blessed are the flexible, for they shall not be bent out of shape.
Wendy



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From sophiamcl at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 10 14:00:06 2003
From: sophiamcl at hotmail.com (sophiamcl)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:00:06 -0000
Subject: thinking of buying/King review
Message-ID: <bejrh6+30k5@eGroups.com>

Hello all!
Though short on cash at the moment, I can't help visiting Alivan's 
every once in a while, or the Pobjoy Mint site.(They made the 
wizarding money for the movies.) You see, when my ship comes in, I'm 
thinking of buying a holly wand and ordering some wizarding money, 
you know. Still, I've had my doubts as to whether these items would 
be worth the money (Though in my heart of hearts I'd love to own 
them, there's a persnickety voice of "reason" telling me that I 
should use them for other things I need, like some new clothes...I'm 
actually down to my last pair of wearable trousers, and they are 
going down hill.)So, in order to  justify my spending money on a wand 
and those loverly coins, I thought I'd ask if anyone on this list has 
ordered any of these items from the abovementioned sites, and whether 
you were happy with your purchase(s)?

Also, does anyone here have access to the Stephen King review? I'm 
not an AOL member, and as I live in Sweden, can't get a hold of a 
copy of Entertainment weekly. Anyone on here who'd be willing to scan 
the article and mail it to me? I would be very, very happy...

Sophia (I love Harry I love Harry I love Harry I love Harry I love 
Harry I love Harry I love Harry I love Harry I love Harry I love 
Harry I love Harry I love Harry I love Harry I love Harry I love 
Harry I love Harry)




From heidit at netbox.com  Thu Jul 10 14:15:53 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:15:53 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] thinking of buying/King review
In-Reply-To: <bejrh6+30k5@eGroups.com>
References: <bejrh6+30k5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1057846559.8665AB4@w5.dngr.org>

Alivan's will be an exhibitor at Nimbus - 2003 next week 
(http://www.hp2003.org) so at that point a few hundred fandomers will be 
able to tell you all about their wands and new brooms!

Stay tuned - same owl place, same owl channel.


On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:00AM -0500, sophiamcl wrote:
> Real-To:  "sophiamcl" <sophiamcl at hotmail.com>
>
> Hello all!
> Though short on cash at the moment, I can't help visiting Alivan's
> every once in a while, or the Pobjoy Mint site.(They made the
> wizarding money for the movies.) You see, when my ship comes in, I'm
> thinking of buying a holly wand and ordering some wizarding money,
> you know. Still, I've had my doubts as to whether these items would
> be worth the money (Though in my heart of hearts I'd love to own
> them, there's a persnickety voice of "reason" telling me that I
> should use them for other things I need, like some new clothes...I'm
> actually down to my last pair of wearable trousers, and they are
> going down hill.)So, in order to  justify my spending money on a wand
> and those loverly coins, I thought I'd ask if anyone on this list has
> ordered any of these items from the abovementioned sites, and whether
> you were happy with your purchase(s)?
>
> Also, does anyone here have access to the Stephen King review? I'm
> not an AOL member, and as I live in Sweden, can't get a hold of a
> copy of Entertainment weekly. Anyone on here who'd be willing to scan
> the article and mail it to me? I would be very, very happy...
>
> Sophia (I love Harry I love Harry I love Harry I love Harry I love
> Harry I love Harry I love Harry I love Harry I love Harry I love
> Harry I love Harry I love Harry I love Harry I love Harry I love
> Harry I love Harry)
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin 
> Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary 
> material from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to 
> HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- 
> MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
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>
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



From tminton at deckerjones.com  Thu Jul 10 16:03:21 2003
From: tminton at deckerjones.com (Tonya Minton)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:03:21 -0500
Subject: Check out this news article and respond!!  
Message-ID: <8D5AD53268720840968E25CB71EC7CAE248565@djmail.deckerjones.com>

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3055381.stm


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From kirst_inn at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Jul 10 17:12:11 2003
From: kirst_inn at yahoo.co.uk (Kirstini)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:12:11 -0000
Subject: Kiddie Lit
In-Reply-To: <bejqdl+l41s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bek6pb+tgp9@eGroups.com>

Mary Ann> Yes, a good laugh, and a good groan!  I came across the 
Famous Five books when I was about 10 and living in Monreal, and I 
loved them.  
<snip> I recently reread one of the books (they live in my 
daughter's bookcase; yes, I kept them) and they are *so* awful!>

Me (Kirstini): The Famous Five books were all rewritten after a 
while (I'd imagine it would be sometime in the late70s-80s). I used 
to spend weekends with my gran at car boot sales and fairs, and I 
picked up several second or third-hand Five books with my pocket 
money. Enid Blyton was abit of an illicit pleasure for me, as my mum 
refused to let me read them at first, only giving in when a school 
friend gave me some Secret Seven books for a birthday. Finding them 
recently when clearing out my mum's old house, I came across this 
particular gem:
"George's face was so blackened with soot that she looked like a 
little nigger boy." 
I don't think I knew what this meant at the time, but I'd always 
wondered why my mum didn't approve of me reading them... 
 
Mary Ann, again:>I'm glad I kept these books because none of my 
> contemporaries in England have heard of Blume.> 

You're joking! Judy Blume and Paula Danziger (the two sort of go 
together in my mind) were the favourite reads of my P6 and 7 (ten, 
eleven, twelve) classes. Both of them used to come over here in the 
summer to read at the Edinburgh Book Festival, and Paula Danziger 
had a slot on the BBC's Saturday morning children's programme for a 
while. Those ones were definately approved of.
Kirstini




From przepla at ipartner.com.pl  Thu Jul 10 19:00:49 2003
From: przepla at ipartner.com.pl (Przemyslaw Plaskowicki)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:00:49 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Ms. Byatt affair; (was: Check out this news
 article and respond!!)
In-Reply-To: <8D5AD53268720840968E25CB71EC7CAE248565@djmail.deckerjones.com>
References: <8D5AD53268720840968E25CB71EC7CAE248565@djmail.deckerjones.com>
Message-ID: <3F0DB7E1.8000903@ipartner.com.pl>

On 7/10/2003 6:03 PM, Tonya Minton wrote:

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3055381.stm

Hi,

Well, I happen to observe all AS Byatt fuss, I'd like to make a few points.

First, let me quote Maxim Gorky: "You must write for children just as 
you do for adults, only better." And obviously JKR is doing just that.

Secondly, I belive that Ms. Byatt is missing crucial point. Writers 
exists for readers, not vice-versa. Books had two basic purposes:
- to give information to readers (manuals, school-books, encylopedias 
and the like);
- to give pleasure to reader.
Unless book does not fulfill at least one of that purposes it won't be 
read. And it doesn't matter if it is written for: "people whose 
imaginative lives are confined to TV cartoons, and the exaggerated (more 
exciting, not threatening) mirror-worlds of soaps, reality TV and 
celebrity gossip.", and it does not matter if such books met Ms. Byatt 
abstract standards of "good book".

All that stuff regarding escapism I'll refute quoting C.S. Lewis:
"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been 
ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them 
openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the 
fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."

Best wishes,
-- 
Pshemekan





From andie at knownet.net  Thu Jul 10 20:50:40 2003
From: andie at knownet.net (grindieloe)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:50:40 -0000
Subject: Teachers & HP
Message-ID: <bekjj0+6pn9@eGroups.com>

I know this is OT-chatter, but I hope this is not TOO OT! 
I've been noticing recently that many Harry fans happen to be 
teachers! :)  I am a teacher (5th grade), and was wondering what 
percentage of adult fans happen to also be teachers??? What other 
professions seem to be high on the HP Fan list? 

grindieloe




From ression at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 10 21:14:54 2003
From: ression at hotmail.com (ER)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:14:54 -0000
Subject: Ms. Byatt affair; (was: Check out this news article and respond!!)
In-Reply-To: <3F0DB7E1.8000903@ipartner.com.pl>
Message-ID: <bekl0e+2m4s@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Przemyslaw Plaskowicki" 
<przepla at i...> wrote:
> 
> All that stuff regarding escapism I'll refute quoting C.S. Lewis:
> "When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been 
> ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read 
them 
> openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including 
the 
> fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
> 

I think he also said something like, "No child's book worth reading 
at ten that is not worth reading at fifty is not worth reading".

ER




From andie at knownet.net  Thu Jul 10 22:14:51 2003
From: andie at knownet.net (grindieloe)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:14:51 -0000
Subject: Decorating
Message-ID: <bekogr+kq1m@eGroups.com>

     I am planning to redecorate a small room in my house, and I 
thought... what a great opportunity to display all of my Harry Potter 
Collectables!  (Yes, I'm crazy... :) I plan on painting the walls, 
getting a few bookcases for books, a new desk, and of course, 
displaying my HP figurines, etc. (and other HP goodies), and I might 
even decide to do a stencil on the wall - I was thinking broomsticks 
and snitches! *Think - Dobby's socks!*  Anyway, I was hoping to get 
some good Harry Potter decoration/decorating ideas from you guys.  
Like I said, I would love to do a stencil if those things are 
available (anybody know where I could get these?), and I'd love to do 
some kind of special finish on the walls... faux castle walls maybe? 
(Naah, too hard maybe.)  I was even thinking about using letter 
stencils and putting some good quotes around the on the walls. 
Your ideas are welcomed!!!!

grindieloe :)




From boggles at earthlink.net  Thu Jul 10 22:17:36 2003
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:17:36 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Teachers & HP
In-Reply-To: <bekjj0+6pn9@eGroups.com>
References: <bekjj0+6pn9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <p05200f01bb33966bb9ea@[192.168.1.100]>

At 8:50 PM +0000 7/10/03, grindieloe wrote:
>I am a teacher (5th grade), and was wondering what
>percentage of adult fans happen to also be teachers???

I teach high school mathematics.

-- 

  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles(at)earthlink.net
"It is not knowledge, but the act of learning, not possession but the 
act of getting there, which grants the greatest enjoyment. "
	- Gauss, in a Letter to Bolyai, 1808.



From rvotaw at i-55.com  Thu Jul 10 22:18:02 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:18:02 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: For the Love of Harry/ Teachers & HP
References: <beiu1f+2qj5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <00d301c34731$23f51620$40a3cdd1@RVotaw>

tongapeach wrote:

> Workshops? You teach? What grade/s?

I teach first grade.  Today was the last day (yea!) of a four day Project
Read workshop.  Problem was, the session I was in was for all grade levels,
up through high school.  So after the first half day it went over my head.
:)

grindieloe wrote:

> I know this is OT-chatter, but I hope this is not TOO OT!
> I've been noticing recently that many Harry fans happen to be
> teachers! :)  I am a teacher (5th grade), and was wondering
> what percentage of adult fans happen to also be teachers???
> What other professions seem to be high on the HP Fan list?

There do seem to be a large number of teachers that are HP fans.  I think it
is because teachers aren't afraid to read "Children's literature" because
they do it all the time anyway.

As for other professions, I wonder, can we do a poll on job professions?

Richelle





From heidit at netbox.com  Thu Jul 10 22:40:13 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:40:13 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Decorating
In-Reply-To: <bekogr+kq1m@eGroups.com>
References: <bekogr+kq1m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1057876820.BE273E3@r5.dngr.org>

I actually just put together a comic book room in our house for my 
husband - and have a few thoughts, but it depends how much you want to 
spend.

First of all, the land of nod (use google to find their website) has a 
cool ceiling fixture that you can paint - stencils of brooms or dragons 
would work well on it.

Second, you can get hp fabric - I think at joann's fabric - and use it 
for pillows or curtains or to drape the walls or ceiling - in fact, a 
ceiling painted to look like the sky - day or noght- would be 
Hogwartsian.

Third, put your best stuff on lit pedestals, if you have the space. 
Otherwise, get ledge-depth shelves - 4 inches or so - for your smaller 
things. And if your action figs are still boxed, you can leave them that 
way and get pegboard at home depot, then use the kind of hooks they have 
in stores to hang them up.

Oh, and get one of those plastic barking fluffy wall plaques to warn 
interlopers away. And make sure you don't put up an archway with a veil. 
I mean, why tempt fate?

Heidi, whose husband loves his all comics all the time room

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 6:14PM -0500, grindieloe wrote:
> Real-To:  "grindieloe" <andie at knownet.net>
>
>      I am planning to redecorate a small room in my house, and I
> thought... what a great opportunity to display all of my Harry Potter
> Collectables!  (Yes, I'm crazy... :) I plan on painting the walls,
> getting a few bookcases for books, a new desk, and of course,
> displaying my HP figurines, etc. (and other HP goodies), and I might
> even decide to do a stencil on the wall - I was thinking broomsticks
> and snitches! *Think - Dobby's socks!*  Anyway, I was hoping to get
> some good Harry Potter decoration/decorating ideas from you guys.
> Like I said, I would love to do a stencil if those things are
> available (anybody know where I could get these?), and I'd love to do
> some kind of special finish on the walls... faux castle walls maybe?
> (Naah, too hard maybe.)  I was even thinking about using letter
> stencils and putting some good quotes around the on the walls.
> Your ideas are welcomed!!!!
>
> grindieloe :)
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin 
> Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary 
> material from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to 
> HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- 
> MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
> Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



From Audra1976 at aol.com  Thu Jul 10 23:04:25 2003
From: Audra1976 at aol.com (Audra1976 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:04:25 EDT
Subject: Author recommendation
Message-ID: <1d1.d8204fb.2c3f4af9@aol.com>

The talk about Terry Pratchett got me thinking about "Good Omens," which I'm 
sure many of you have read, which in turn got me thinking about Neil Gaiman, 
whom I'm sure many of you have also read, but that thirdly reminded me of 
another author named Charles de Lint.  

I just read "The Ivory and the Horn," a collection of short stories by Chrles 
de Lint on the recommendation of a friend, and it reminded me of Neil Gaiman 
in that urban folkloric kind of way.  I think all you Harry Potter fans would 
also enjoy the way the way de Lint weaves a believable magical world that 
co-exists with our own, basing it on the mythology of different world cultures.  
Next I plan on checking out another of his short story collections, "Dreams 
Underfoot." 

I hope some of you will look into his work, and find it as enjoyable as I 
have.
:)
-Audra- 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From ression at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 10 23:21:30 2003
From: ression at hotmail.com (ER)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 23:21:30 -0000
Subject: Kiddie Lit
In-Reply-To: <bek6pb+tgp9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <beksdq+nef4@eGroups.com>

Mary Ann wrote -

>I recently reread one of the books (they live in my daughter's 
bookcase; yes, I kept them) and they are *so* awful!

So bad, they're good! A chuckle on every page.

>But chances are that, once my kids are old enough to read them, 
they'll love them, too. And they gave me hours of entertainment when 
I was young, and that's the important point, isn't it?

Well I think so too, but I suspect the Literary Police (step forward 
A.S. Byatt) would differ! Still, yah-boo-sucks to them. With knobs 
on :) I wonder what ASB makes of Edith Nesbit - I do remember reading 
somewhere that Nesbit was considered a *good* children's writer. Four 
Children and It and all that.


Kirstini wrote -

>Me (Kirstini): The Famous Five books were all rewritten after a 
while (I'd imagine it would be sometime in the late70s-80s).

Waaaaaaaaaah! Bowdlerising Blyton? Bang goes my childhood.

> Enid Blyton was abit of an illicit pleasure for me, as my mum 
refused to let me read them at first, only giving in when a school 
friend gave me some Secret Seven books for a birthday.

Oh, no, the Secret Seven, now you've done it, I'm regressing even 
further back :) I think they were for even younger readers than the 
Famous Five books, weren't they? All I can remember about them is an 
incompetent village policeman ...

>"George's face was so blackened with soot that she looked like a 
little nigger boy." I don't think I knew what this meant at the time, 
but I'd always wondered why my mum didn't approve of me reading 
them... 

I think there was, if not an actual ban, then at least a de facto ban 
in libraries and schools in the 70s and 80s. Presumably for just such 
things as this. And I think Noddy (another of EB's creations) had a 
friend called Golliwog. Whether EB was being racist or whether she 
was just oblivious, like me, I just don't know ...

>Mary Ann, again:>>I'm glad I kept these books because none of my 
contemporaries in England have heard of Blume.
>You're joking! Judy Blume and Paula Danziger (the two sort of go 
together in my mind) were the favourite reads of my P6 and 7 (ten, 
eleven, twelve) classes. 

What sort of books were they? Girly? ;) I think I was onto John 
Buchan and Arthur Conan-Doyle by then ... and Ryder Haggard of 
course, ripping yarns and all that.


ER, wallowing now ...





From ression at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 10 23:25:13 2003
From: ression at hotmail.com (ER)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 23:25:13 -0000
Subject: Author recommendation
In-Reply-To: <1d1.d8204fb.2c3f4af9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <bekskp+ttnb@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Audra1976 at a... wrote:
> The talk about Terry Pratchett got me thinking about "Good Omens," 
which I'm 
> sure many of you have read, which in turn got me thinking about 
Neil Gaiman, 
> whom I'm sure many of you have also read, but that thirdly reminded 
me of 
> another author named Charles de Lint.  
> 

Could anybody recommend a good "starter" book by Terry Pratchett? 
I've heard the name often enough, but I know naught about him.

ER




From ression at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 10 23:34:44 2003
From: ression at hotmail.com (ER)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 23:34:44 -0000
Subject: The Famous Five and the Hardy Boys
In-Reply-To: <bei7cj+a9nm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bekt6k+gb1k@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "linlou43" <linlou43 at y...> 
wrote:

> ER asked?
>  
> > Now, who the heck are the Hardy Boys? Cousins of the Five? :)
> 
> The Hardy boys are mystery books starring the teenage brother 
> detectives Frank and Joe Hardy 

<snip>

> Anyway, the books you descibe sound more like the Bobsey Twins 
> series.

>    hope that helps-linlou

Yes, the Hardy Boys sound a little more, well, hardy, than the Five. 
A slightly harsher edge to them probably. The Bobsey Twins _sound_ a 
little younger. Anybody called "the Bobsey Twins" would have suffered 
badly at my junior school ;)

ER




From andie at knownet.net  Fri Jul 11 00:12:25 2003
From: andie at knownet.net (grindieloe)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:12:25 -0000
Subject: Decorating
In-Reply-To: <1057876820.BE273E3@r5.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <bekvd9+46r2@eGroups.com>

Just wanted to say thanks for the advice!  I do already  have some HP pillows 
(blue) and even a throw.  I didn't think to paint the ceiling to mirror the sky (like 
the Great Hall), but that is a GREAT IDEA!, and of course, there will certainly 
be no archways and no veils!!!

grindieloe :)

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Heidi Tandy" <heidit at n...> 
wrote:
> I actually just put together a comic book room in our house for my 
> husband - and have a few thoughts, but it depends how much you want to 
> spend.
> 
> First of all, the land of nod (use google to find their website) has a 
> cool ceiling fixture that you can paint - stencils of brooms or dragons 
> would work well on it.
> 
> Second, you can get hp fabric - I think at joann's fabric - and use it 
> for pillows or curtains or to drape the walls or ceiling - in fact, a 
> ceiling painted to look like the sky - day or noght- would be 
> Hogwartsian.
> 
> Third, put your best stuff on lit pedestals, if you have the space. 
> Otherwise, get ledge-depth shelves - 4 inches or so - for your smaller 
> things. And if your action figs are still boxed, you can leave them that 
> way and get pegboard at home depot, then use the kind of hooks they have 
> in stores to hang them up.
> 
> Oh, and get one of those plastic barking fluffy wall plaques to warn 
> interlopers away. And make sure you don't put up an archway with a veil. 
> I mean, why tempt fate?
> 
> Heidi, whose husband loves his all comics all the time room
> 
> On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 6:14PM -0500, grindieloe wrote:
> > Real-To:  "grindieloe" <andie at k...>
> >
> >      I am planning to redecorate a small room in my house, and I
> > thought... what a great opportunity to display all of my Harry Potter
> > Collectables!  (Yes, I'm crazy... :) I plan on painting the walls,
> > getting a few bookcases for books, a new desk, and of course,
> > displaying my HP figurines, etc. (and other HP goodies), and I might
> > even decide to do a stencil on the wall - I was thinking broomsticks
> > and snitches! *Think - Dobby's socks!*  Anyway, I was hoping to get
> > some good Harry Potter decoration/decorating ideas from you guys.
> > Like I said, I would love to do a stencil if those things are
> > available (anybody know where I could get these?), and I'd love to do
> > some kind of special finish on the walls... faux castle walls maybe?
> > (Naah, too hard maybe.)  I was even thinking about using letter
> > stencils and putting some good quotes around the on the walls.
> > Your ideas are welcomed!!!!
> >
> > grindieloe :)
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> >
> > 
________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement____________
___
> >
> > Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin 
> > Files!
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
> >
> > Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary 
> > material from posts to which you're replying!
> >
> > Is your message...
> > An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to 
> > HPFGU-Announcements.
> > Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> > Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> > None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> > Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- 
> > MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-
unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> > 
____________________________________________________________
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Fri Jul 11 00:20:01 2003
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:20:01 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Kiddie Lit
In-Reply-To: <beksdq+nef4@eGroups.com>
References: <bek6pb+tgp9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3F0E8F51.230.18FF05@localhost>

On 10 Jul 2003 at 23:21, ER wrote:

> >Me (Kirstini): The Famous Five books were all rewritten after a 
> while (I'd imagine it would be sometime in the late70s-80s).
> 
> Waaaaaaaaaah! Bowdlerising Blyton? Bang goes my childhood.

Oh yes.

I have an almost full collection of Famous Five first editions (I collect 
seriously), and the more recent reprints change quite a few minor details. 
George is no longer asked if she was spanked by her father, instead she's 
asked if she was scolded, for example. Some of the changes I can understand 
- for example, the 'little nigger girl' statement being changed - but the books 
are still set in the same period, and honestly, I can't see what harm a kid of 
today reading about the fact that a girl in the 1940s getting her bottom 
smacked could do.

Nothing could be worse than the 1970s TV series, of course, for mutilating the 
Five.

"We are the Famous Five, Julian, Dick, and Anne, George and Timmy the 
dog..."

> > Enid Blyton was abit of an illicit pleasure for me, as my mum 
> refused to let me read them at first, only giving in when a school 
> friend gave me some Secret Seven books for a birthday.
> 
> Oh, no, the Secret Seven, now you've done it, I'm regressing even 
> further back :) I think they were for even younger readers than the 
> Famous Five books, weren't they? All I can remember about them is an 
> incompetent village policeman ...

No, that's the Five Findouters (and Dog) (also known as the Mystery series), 
with PC Goon. Fatty, Larry, Daisy, Pip, Bets, and Buster the dog.

The Secret Seven are probably aimed at about the same age as the Famous 
Five, and going from memory, were written a little later. The Secret Seven 
were more organised than the Five - they were a formal club. Peter, Janet, 
Colin, George (this George is male), Jack, Barbara, and Pam. Their dog was 
named Scamper (always had to be a dog) and Jack's 'horrid sister' Susie, was 
sometimes involved.
 
Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in
common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter
the facts to fit the views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen
to be one of the facts that need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who:
The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Fri Jul 11 00:22:00 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 00:22:00 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter 
Message-ID: <1057882920.324.15946.w26@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-OTChatter group:

It seems that many adult Harry Potter fans 
are teachers.  Let's find out what percent! 
Are you a teacher/educator/professor, or do 
you have a different profession? 

  o Teacher/Educator/Professor 
  o Other Profession 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=1116555  

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 







From joym999 at aol.com  Fri Jul 11 01:02:52 2003
From: joym999 at aol.com (joywitch_m_curmudgeon)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:02:52 -0000
Subject: Byatt's attack on us (not long anymore)
In-Reply-To: <beffjd+oudr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bel2bs+4bk6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bluesqueak" <pipdowns at e...> 
wrote:

a beautiful rebuttal to Byatt's stupid article, which makes me wonder 
if HP for Grownups shouldn't write a letter to the editor based on it.

--Joywitch




From rvotaw at i-55.com  Fri Jul 11 01:29:32 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:29:32 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Hardy Boys/Bobbsey Twins/etc
References: <bekt6k+gb1k@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <003e01c3474b$e20fee40$cf9ccdd1@RVotaw>

ER wrote:

> Yes, the Hardy Boys sound a little more, well, hardy, than the Five. 
> A slightly harsher edge to them probably. The Bobsey Twins _sound_ a 
> little younger. Anybody called "the Bobsey Twins" would have suffered 
> badly at my junior school ;)

Yes, the Bobbsey Twins are *significantly* younger than the Hardy Boys.  Well, first of all the characters are younger.  I forget if this has been covered, but the Hardy Boys were 17 and 18, the Bobbsey Twins are 12 and 6.  Except in the first few books, they were 8 and 4.   So they aged for a while, then stopped getting older.   Not to mention nothing bad ever happens to the Bobbsey Twins.  I mean nothing bad that doesn't get undone in the book.  One of the Hardy Boy books someone actually does die.  A supporting character.  

It's kind of confusing, several different series were started by the same person, then sort of delegated out.  
For example, the Bobbsey Twins were created in 1904 by Edward Stratemeyer.  He created and managed several other childrens series, including the Hardy Boys, Nancy Drew, and Tom Swift.  The best anyone knows, he only really wrote the first book to each series, then hired ghost writers and gave them an outline for subsequent books.  Each series published under a different pseudonym. The Hardy Boys didn't come along until the late 1920's.   The same person may actually have written as many as 20 or more books or only one.  There are various inconsistencies because of the different authors, such as the Bobbsey Twins cat.  Sometimes it's a male, sometimes a female.  

So, there you have it.  The life and times of American childrens literature. :)

What's amazing is that I read these books in the early 1980's.  My grandmother read some of the same books in the late 1920's.  Wow.

Richelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From rvotaw at i-55.com  Fri Jul 11 01:53:08 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:53:08 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Decorating
References: <bekvd9+46r2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <008001c3474f$2dc41700$cf9ccdd1@RVotaw>

grindiloe wrote:

> Just wanted to say thanks for the advice!  I do already  have some HP pillows 
>(blue) and even a throw.  I didn't think to paint the ceiling to mirror the sky >(like the Great Hall), but that is a GREAT IDEA!, and of course, there will >certainly be no archways and no veils!!!

I must say, I'm not much of a decorator, but I am SO jealous.  That ceiling idea is terrific.  You could make a potions kit like Hermione's with a wooden box and inserted panels.  It could hold office supplies or whatever.  Or you could paint the walls with doors all over, make it the Department of Mysteries.  Although that would be kind of creepy.

Richelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From andie at knownet.net  Fri Jul 11 02:50:24 2003
From: andie at knownet.net (grindieloe)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 02:50:24 -0000
Subject: Decorating
In-Reply-To: <008001c3474f$2dc41700$cf9ccdd1@RVotaw>
Message-ID: <bel8lg+1s3l@eGroups.com>

> I must say, I'm not much of a decorator, but I am SO jealous.  That 
ceiling idea is terrific.  You could make a potions kit like 
Hermione's with a wooden box and inserted panels.  It could hold 
office supplies or whatever.  Or you could paint the walls with doors 
all over, make it the Department of Mysteries.  Although that would 
be kind of creepy.
> 
> Richelle


Yes, I agree that the ceiling would be SO COOL!  I like your idea of 
doors.  In fact it brought me to the idea of - portraits!  Maybe I 
can get one like the Fat Lady???? I could replace my door with the 
portrait of the Fat Lady, open the portrait, and walk in!!! Mmm... 
yeah, maybe I'm going a bit far... *heheheh*

grindieloe :)




From andie at knownet.net  Fri Jul 11 03:05:23 2003
From: andie at knownet.net (grindieloe)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 03:05:23 -0000
Subject: Decorating
In-Reply-To: <bekogr+kq1m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bel9hj+8o8g@eGroups.com>

Okay, I just thought of two more ideas!  What do you think of these:
1) Buy a broomstick (like I needed an excuse) and mount it on the 
wall.
2) Buy the school sorting hat (again, like I needed an excuse) and 
put it on a stool in the corner.

I'm never going to be able to decide between all these ideas!!! 
AHHH!!!

grindieloe :)




From terryljames at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 03:32:53 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:32:53 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Author recommendation
Message-ID: <BAY8-F117YTHrdusluC00001454@hotmail.com>


>From: "ER" <ression at hotmail.com>
>
>Could anybody recommend a good "starter" book by Terry Pratchett?
>I've heard the name often enough, but I know naught about him.
>
>ER
>

"Lords and Ladies" from the witches series is good, and although it helps to 
know what happened previously in the series, it's not at all necessary.

"Guards!  Guards!", the first book of the Night Watch series, is not bad, 
although IMO the later books are better.  But if you start with that one you 
really get to see how the character of Vimes develops.  My favorites in the 
Night Watch series are "The Fifth Elephant" and "Jingo".  Again, helpful to 
read in order but not necessary.

As a standalone, "Small Gods" is really good.

It would actually be easier to give you a list of his books to avoid, as it 
would be a lot shorter! :)

Terry LJ

P.S.  "Sourcery", while definitely not among my favorites, does feature a 
wizard's hat with a mind of its own...

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus




From kirst_inn at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Jul 11 03:57:11 2003
From: kirst_inn at yahoo.co.uk (Kirstini)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 03:57:11 -0000
Subject: Kiddie Lit
In-Reply-To: <3F0E8F51.230.18FF05@localhost>
Message-ID: <belcin+jn0l@eGroups.com>

Shaun:> The Secret Seven were more organised than the Five - they 
were a formal club. Peter, Janet, Colin, George (this George is 
male), Jack, Barbara, and Pam. Their dog was named Scamper (always 
had to be a dog) and Jack's 'horrid sister' Susie, was sometimes 
involved.> 

Oh yes. Horrid Susie, the most modest and un-selfconscious of EB's 
creation. "We've formed a secret society to rival yours. We're 
calling ourselves "The Famous Five", after the Famous Five books." 
Natch.
All this EB talk got me thinking. EB and Elinor M Brent-Dyer (the 
Chalet School series)were among the most influential kiddie-boarding-
school-story writes of JKR's childhood, weren't they? "Oh Caledonia" 
by Elsbeth Barker(adult lit) is worth reading as a satire on what 
happened to the non-popular, non-sporty girls in the Malory Towers 
(EB) books (Scottish, too!). However, I'm just wondering how much 
influence in this sort of depiction of boarding schools could be 
traced in HP. Have any of the all-knowing FAQ essayists written a 
post or six?  Could you point me to them?
Kirstini





From catlady at wicca.net  Fri Jul 11 04:18:53 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 04:18:53 -0000
Subject: thinking of buying/King review
In-Reply-To: <bejrh6+30k5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <beldrd+1kse@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "sophiamcl" <sophiamcl at h...> 
wrote:
> Hello all!
> Though short on cash at the moment, I can't help visiting Alivan's 
> every once in a while, or the Pobjoy Mint site.(They made the 
> wizarding money for the movies.) 

I haven't bought from either of those people (I didn't even know 
about Pobjoy Mint until you mentioned it) but I've seen several 
people post that they got a wand at Allivan's and were happy with it. 
I always reply that http://www.thewandshop.com/ charges much less, 
altho' I haven't bought from her either. I was sorry to see that she 
isn't going to be on Kompulseive Alley.




From tahewitt at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 11 06:19:16 2003
From: tahewitt at yahoo.com (Tyler Hewitt)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 23:19:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: other childrens literature
In-Reply-To: <1057871704.3998.45089.m14@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030711061916.37067.qmail@web14203.mail.yahoo.com>

I missed this thread (been on vacation-thanks for all
who sent ideas of what to see in Britain.I had a
wonderful time), but I assume someone asked for
children's lit recommendations. Here's mine:

Anything by E.L. Konigsburg is well worth reading. Her
best known book is 'From the Mixed Up Files of Mrs.
Basil E. Frankweiler' which I still consider my
all-time favorite book. It won the Newberry award back
around 1967 or so. She's written many books, and is
still going strong. I've read at least a dozen of her
books and have never been disappointed. She writes
exceptionally well-crafted novels that never
underestimate the intelligence of children.

For completely different reasons, I love Daniel
Pinkwater. His books are hysterically funny, full of
puns, wordplay and absurd plot twists. Often a serious
message lurks behind all the tomfoolery, but Pinkwater
never lets on to this. He has a big cult following
among adults, I wouldent be surprised if more adults
than kids read his work.
My favorite Pinkwater books: Alan Mendholsson the Boy
>From Mars, Young Adult Novel, Lizard Music, both
Snarkout Boys books, Borgel. Many of his books are out
of print, but two large collections of novels have
apeared in paperback, so you can get 4-5 complete
books under one cover.

William Steig also writes great children's books. My
favorite of his is Dominic, a very moving story about
a donkey who has adventures and lears a lot about life
in the process.

Tyler

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com



From tahewitt at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 11 06:33:22 2003
From: tahewitt at yahoo.com (Tyler Hewitt)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 23:33:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What's up with Angelica Huston?
In-Reply-To: <1057871704.3998.45089.m14@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030711063322.38282.qmail@web14203.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi
Wondering if any UK residents can give me some info.

I recently returned from vacationing in Britain. While
there, I was at the Archway tube station in London (on
the Northern line near Highgate Cemetary). Someone had
written grafitti all over the outside of the station
slamming Angelica Huston. I took a photo of one, I
thought it was odd. It reads "Angelica Huston is a
child abuser, a rapist, a nonce and an evil pig".

I have two questions:

1.  Does anyone know of any reason why Ms. Huston
should be singled out for such abuse?

2.  What exactly is a 'nonce'?

Thanks for your help,
Tyler

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com



From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Fri Jul 11 06:41:04 2003
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:41:04 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] What's up with Angelica Huston?
In-Reply-To: <20030711063322.38282.qmail@web14203.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1057871704.3998.45089.m14@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <3F0EE8A0.30754.23C0A8@localhost>

On 10 Jul 2003 at 23:33, Tyler Hewitt wrote:

> Hi
> Wondering if any UK residents can give me some info.
> 
> I recently returned from vacationing in Britain. While
> there, I was at the Archway tube station in London (on
> the Northern line near Highgate Cemetary). Someone had
> written grafitti all over the outside of the station
> slamming Angelica Huston. I took a photo of one, I
> thought it was odd. It reads "Angelica Huston is a
> child abuser, a rapist, a nonce and an evil pig".
> 
> I have two questions:
> 
> 1.  Does anyone know of any reason why Ms. Huston
> should be singled out for such abuse?

All I can think of offhand is somebody reacting to her film, 'Bastard 
Out of Carolina' which includes quite graphic scenes of child abuse and 
rape.

That is, if any thought was put into the allegation at all.

> 2.  What exactly is a 'nonce'?

Pretty close to another word for child abuser, or rapist. Basically a 
pedophile.



Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From risako at nexusanime.com  Fri Jul 11 08:05:33 2003
From: risako at nexusanime.com (Melissa McCarthy)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 05:05:33 -0300
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] thinking of buying
References: <bejrh6+30k5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <015801c34783$34e1b180$69836395@vaio>

Sophia wrote:
> Though short on cash at the moment, I can't help visiting Alivan's
> every once in a while, or the Pobjoy Mint site.(They made the
> wizarding money for the movies.) You see, when my ship comes in, I'm
> thinking of buying a holly wand and ordering some wizarding money,
> you know. Still, I've had my doubts as to whether these items would
> be worth the money (Though in my heart of hearts I'd love to own
> them, there's a persnickety voice of "reason" telling me that I
> should use them for other things I need, like some new clothes...I'm
> actually down to my last pair of wearable trousers, and they are
> going down hill.)So, in order to  justify my spending money on a wand
> and those loverly coins, I thought I'd ask if anyone on this list has
> ordered any of these items from the abovementioned sites, and whether
> you were happy with your purchase(s)?

Reason, schmeason!  Wands are important!  I bought my wand from The Wand
Shop (http://www.thewandshop.com/).  The Wandmaker there makes custom wands
with actual inserts (of dragon whisker, unicorn tail hair, fairy hair, or
phoenix feather), they have a wide variety of wood types, the prices are
reasonable (starting at US$12 for a "prefab" wand), and they ship very fast.
I'm not getting paid to say that, I just really adore my wand :D and I
haven't had a better experience with any online seller.

Melissa, whose wand is also made of holly!






From jennl602 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 11 09:25:25 2003
From: jennl602 at yahoo.com (jennl602)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:25:25 -0000
Subject: Hoping for some help from the UK
Message-ID: <belvq5+epm3@eGroups.com>

Hi...I mainly lurk on the main list but I have a quick question for 
anyone who lives in the UK.

I am going to be a high school senior next year and am interested in 
going to school in the UK.  I am hitting a lot of brick walls when it 
comes to researching what are the best schools there because any site 
I find seems to only want to concentrate on the US.  So I was hoping 
that someone from the UK could tell me what some of the top 
universities are over there (besides the obvious two...Cambridge and 
Oxford).  I am interested in humanities and social studies mostly -- 
English, history, or political science.

Any help would be much appreciated!

Thanks.

~Jennifer




From nina.baker at uk.faulding.com  Fri Jul 11 10:32:33 2003
From: nina.baker at uk.faulding.com (nb100uk)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:32:33 -0000
Subject: Hoping for some help from the UK
In-Reply-To: <belvq5+epm3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bem3o1+m1j4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "jennl602" <jennl602 at y...> 
wrote:
> Hi...I mainly lurk on the main list but I have a quick question for 
> anyone who lives in the UK.
> 
> I am going to be a high school senior next year and am interested 
in 
> going to school in the UK.  I am hitting a lot of brick walls when 
it 
> comes to researching what are the best schools there because any 
site 
> I find seems to only want to concentrate on the US.  So I was 
hoping 
> that someone from the UK could tell me what some of the top 
> universities are over there (besides the obvious two...Cambridge 
and 
> Oxford).  I am interested in humanities and social studies mostly --
 
> English, history, or political science.
> 
> Any help would be much appreciated!
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> ~Jennifer

OK this is quite complicated!  First of all you need to go to the 
UCAS site (University and College Admissions Service) - www.ucas.com

There's an excellent part of this site which deals with international 
students and the requirements needed to study in the UK.  As a quick 
guide, if you're wanting to start uni in Sept/Oct 04 (after you 
graduate from high school), you need to start applying in Oct/Nov 
03.  Do your research now and draw up a short list of universities 
and their courses.

In the UK, you apply for a specific course, at a particular 
university and have 8(?) choices.  Have a good browse of the UCAS 
site and then go to the university websites.  A quick guide to 
British universities (not exhaustive and only slightly accurate I'm 
sure!).  This is rather elitist and not a reflection of how good the 
courses or people are in each place - 'Oxbridge' may have the 
prestige but when you compare to 'lesser' unis, they may have better 
facilities etc.

The premier universities (our Ivy League) are Oxford and Cambridge in 
England, and Edinburgh and St Andrews in Scotland.  These are 
the 'ancient' universities, dating back 700 or 800 years.  You need 
top class grades and something 'a bit special' to get in (and even 
straight A's won't always cut it).  They're incredibly selective and 
also have an entrance exam (which I failed despite having great 
grades)!

The next universities are the 'Red Bricks' - literally were built of 
distinctive red bricks in Victorian times.  They're based in the 
major cities - London, Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, Glasgow, 
Bristol etc.  If you want city living and great nightlife, these are 
the ones for you.  They're very big and usually have every course 
under the sun.  On the downside, the cost of living is high 
(especially in the south of England and London!)

There are the 'campus' universities, such as Lancaster, Warwick and 
Nottingham, where the whole university is on a leafy site outside the 
nearest town.  Everyone lives on campus and it's all self-contained, 
but sometimes a bit isolated, unless you're prepared to travel into 
nearby towns.

Finally there are the 'new' universities, which are based in almost 
every large town/city in the country.  They used to be classed 
as 'Polytechnics' but were grated university status about 10 years 
ago.  Often considered the poor relations, many have fantastic new 
buildings and great facilities, don't overlook them.

All in all, there are approx 120 Universities in the UK, most if not 
all will have a website (and brochures that they can send out).  Find 
out which unis offer the course you want, and then decide on 
geographical location - sometimes London may not be the best option, 
and choosing universities in other parts of the country will give you 
a fantastic insight into the 'real' Britain.  The best website I've 
found for doing quick searches is 
www.education.guardian.co.uk/universityguide  This site has league 
tables, student comments etc.

Finally, I strongly urge you to choose Warwick University - very cool 
place and one of the highest rated across the board in most league 
tables (and of course is the one I went to!!)  Good luck, and I hope 
you enjoy 3 years drinking your way through the pubs of your chosen 
university town!!

Nina





From wgouine1 at mac.com  Fri Jul 11 12:50:51 2003
From: wgouine1 at mac.com (Peter Paul)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:50:51 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Teachers & HP
In-Reply-To: <p05200f01bb33966bb9ea@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <4DA0EB1C-B39E-11D7-B350-0003935103DC@mac.com>


On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 06:17  PM, Jennifer Boggess Ramon wrote:

> as wondering what
> >percentage of adult fans happen to also be teachers?


I am a lecturer (adjunct professor) of English.  I also know of  three 
colleagues who are  HP fanatics.

Blessed are the flexible, for they shall not be bent out of shape.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From artsylynda at aol.com  Fri Jul 11 13:36:57 2003
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:36:57 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] teachers and HP
Message-ID: <1c7.c717fd9.2c401779@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/11/2003 5:46:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com writes:

> At 8:50 PM +0000 7/10/03, grindieloe wrote:
> >I am a teacher (5th grade), and was wondering what
> >percentage of adult fans happen to also be teachers???
> 
> I teach high school mathematics.
> 
> 
I was a teacher of middle and high school kids (Hogwarts age group) until 
1993, when I started working on becoming a sculptor.  (I've been a professional 
sculptor since 1996.)

Lynda Sappington
 <A HREF="http://www.thesculptedhorse.com/">Equine Art by Lynda Sappington</A>  Elegant equine art in bronze, cold-cast 
porcelain, handcast paper and resin.  Also jewelry with an equine theme in 14K 
gold and sterling silver.


Lynda 
* * *
". . .the cat's among the pixies now."  Mrs. Figg, OoP


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From artsylynda at aol.com  Fri Jul 11 13:38:44 2003
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:38:44 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter]For the love of Harry!  Teachers and HP
Message-ID: <19b.17d49661.2c4017e4@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/11/2003 5:46:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com writes:

> There do seem to be a large number of teachers that are HP fans.  I think 
> it
> is because teachers aren't afraid to read "Children's literature" because
> they do it all the time anyway.
> 
> As for other professions, I wonder, can we do a poll on job professions?
> 
> Richelle
> 
Well, I was one who didn't read them for a long time because my kids have 
been grown a long time and I had no "excuse" to go in the kids' section of the 
library.  I finally gave up on that and tried them (this past January) and am 
now obsessed with HP books and movies.  And I prefer the artwork on the kids' 
editions, so those are what I buy.

Lynda 
* * *
". . .the cat's among the pixies now."  Mrs. Figg, OoP


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From keegan at mcn.org  Fri Jul 11 15:34:14 2003
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:34:14 -0700
Subject: Follow-up on the Byatt review
In-Reply-To: <behtdg+7jq2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20030711083308.02400048@localhost>

Potter critic hit by backlash as spellbound experts support author
http://www.news.scotsman.com/entertainment.cfm?id=752752003

CLAIRE SMITH
cmith at scotsman.com

THE literary world yesterday leapt to the defence of JK Rowling - after 
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix was savaged by the leading author 
AS Byatt.

In a waspish review in the New York Times, the Booker Prize-winning Byatt 
said the fifth book on the boy wizard was lacking in any real sense of 
magic. She also compared Harry Potter unfavourably with other classics of 
junior fiction and said Rowling?s narratives were "made up of intelligently 
patchworked derivative motifs of children?s literature".

The literary backlash was bound to follow the publication of the book. Yet 
a second backlash - against the attacks - has kicked in surprisingly 
quickly, with the ink barely dry on Byatt?s assault. Byatt, whose novel 
Possession won the Booker Prize, said: "Ms Rowling?s magic world has no 
place for the numinous. It is written for people whose imaginative lives 
are confined to TV cartoons and the exaggerated mirror-worlds of soaps, 
reality TV and celebrity gossip."

However, Byatt was immediately accused of wasting her energies and literary 
jealousy.

Lindsey Fraser, a literary agent, said of the attack: "I was at the Albert 
Hall with 4,000 kids when the new novel was launched.

"The kids were so excited, but when JK Rowling came out and read an 
extract, you could have heard a pin drop. Very few writers have that. I 
doubt very much that AS Byatt would have that effect."

And Randall Stevenson, a reader in English literature at Edinburgh 
University, said most creative writers took inspiration from many other 
sources.

He added: "I don?t think JK Rowling should be put down for that. 
Shakespeare used composites of other stories. But the combination is quite 
original.

"There are thousands of people around the world trying to imitate her 
[Rowling] - but there are none who have succeeded."

Marc Lambert, the chief executive of the Scottish Book Trust, said it was 
unreasonable of Byatt to attack a book for children as if it were intended 
to be a work of serious adult literature.

He said: "It seems to me that what JK Rowling does is put together an 
enormously entertaining and interesting world for children. If AS Byatt is 
judging it by other criteria she is making a category mistake." The latest 
Harry Potter novel has also won praise from Stephen King, the celebrated 
horror writer, who described the book?s evil Professor Umbridge as the 
greatest make-believe villain since Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lambs.

He added that Rowling was a natural storyteller "bursting with crazily 
vivid ideas".

JK Rowling?s publishers, Bloomsbury, declined to offer an opinion. A 
spokeswoman said: "We don?t comment on reviews."

Never afraid of speaking her mind when it comes to other authors, in 1995, 
Byatt lambasted Martin Amis, the novelist, for demanding a ?500,000 advance 
for his novel The Information to pay for expensive dental implant treatment 
in the United States.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From moza_jf at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 15:57:07 2003
From: moza_jf at hotmail.com (Maureen )
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:57:07 -0000
Subject: Decorating
In-Reply-To: <bel9hj+8o8g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bemmoj+kfvu@eGroups.com>

Hi, 

I like all your ideas for accessories, can't beat any of them.

For the basics of the room, try looking here 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/homes/design/period_style/gothic.shtml on the 
good old BBC site, for ideas on gothic period style - it was the 
closest I could find to a castle.

First post out the way, I'm no longer a lurker! :)

Mo 




From Audra1976 at aol.com  Fri Jul 11 17:21:48 2003
From: Audra1976 at aol.com (Audra1976 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:21:48 EDT
Subject: Terry Pratchett (was: Re: Author recommendation) 
Message-ID: <139.227a2fdb.2c404c2c@aol.com>

>From: "ER" <ression at hotmail.com>
>
>Could anybody recommend a good "starter" book by Terry Pratchett?
>

The Discworld books are good "for a bit of light reading" as Hermione would 
say.  "The Colour of Magic" is the first book of the series (which is comprised 
of around 30 books--I haven't read all of them), and a good intro.  It is an 
amusing spoof on classic fantasy literature, such as "Lord of the Rings," with 
modern-day allusions. The goofy humor is similar to Douglas Adam's 
"Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy," but more over-the-top.  I always tell people, if you 
crack up at "Monty Python's Flying Circus," you will probably get a kick out 
of Terry Pratchett's books.  Just be prepared for a lot of puns and groaners.

"Guards, Guards!" as someone else recommended, is very funny.  It's one of 
the Discworld books, but I've lent it to a few friends who never read any of the 
other books, and they got it just fine.  The main character is this really 
tall dwarf called "Carrot," who finds out that he is actually so tall because 
he's not a dwarf.  He's a human.  The book follows his adventures as he becomes 
a Night Watchman.  Among other things, he learns that in this city he can't 
arrest thieves because they belong to a guild.  They rob you and then leave you 
a receipt.

"Good Omens" is a stand alone book that is a collaboration between Terry 
Pratchett and Neil Gaiman, and I love it.  The end of the world is suposed to be 
at hand, and the  Antichrist is born to help bring this all about, but he gets 
switched at birth, and they start indocrinating the wrong boy.  When they 
realize the mistake and find the real Antichrist, he's just been raised as a 
normal kid, and he decides he doesn't want to do it.  I love this book so much 
because the pure whackiness of Pratchett's humor (which can get to be a little 
much for me) is tempered by Gaimon's sort of morbid sense of humor, and it all 
averages out to the perfect blend.

-Audra-
Who is not a teacher, but a child psychologist, and so fits the"working with 
children" cliche of adult HP fans 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From Audra1976 at aol.com  Fri Jul 11 17:34:28 2003
From: Audra1976 at aol.com (Audra1976 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:34:28 EDT
Subject: Decorating 
Message-ID: <b0.3be953d8.2c404f24@aol.com>

"grindieloe" <andie at knownet.net> writes: 
Your ideas are welcomed!!!!
> 
If you're looking for portraits for the walls, I recommend John Waterhouse.  
You can get oil and canvas prints ready for fraiming on E-Bay (or poster 
prints even cheaper).  Most of his paintings are very Hogwartsian, especially 
"Crystal Ball," "The Sorceress," his Circe (the witch from Ulysses) paintings, and 
any of his mythology themed paintings (There's even one of Echo and NARCISSA). 
 I have my Hogwarts inspired room decorated with his paintings, medieval 
looking stencils that I got at AC Moore, and tapestries that I also got from 
E-Bay.  I'm doing a night sky ceiling, but it isn't finished yet.  And I did do a 
faux stone wall finish in some places.  I'll locate the painting book where I 
got the technique from this weekend and post it for you.  

-Audra-




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From marley2580 at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Jul 11 17:37:10 2003
From: marley2580 at blueyonder.co.uk (marl2580)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:37:10 -0000
Subject: Hoping for some help from the UK
In-Reply-To: <belvq5+epm3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bemsk6+3aj4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "jennl602" <
jennl602 at y...> wrote:
> Hi...I mainly lurk on the main list but I have a quick question for 
> anyone who lives in the UK.
> 
> I am going to be a high school senior next year and am 
interested in 
> going to school in the UK.  I am hitting a lot of brick walls when 
it 
> comes to researching what are the best schools there 
because any site 
> I find seems to only want to concentrate on the US.  So I was 
hoping 
> that someone from the UK could tell me what some of the top 
> universities are over there (besides the obvious 
two...Cambridge and 
> Oxford).  I am interested in humanities and social studies 
mostly -- 
> English, history, or political science.
> 
> Any help would be much appreciated!
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> ~Jennifer

Well I admit that I'm a tad biased but Dundee university in 
scotland has excellent politics and history departments (guess 
what I'm studying!). The thing to remember when deciding 
between Scottish universities and universities elsewhere in the 
UK is that Scottish degrees are usually 4 years rather than 3. 
This is because we usually get a degree with honours, I'm not 
sure if it's a better degree but it's pretty rare to stop in third year 
when at a Scottish university. Anyway, good luck.
Marley




From kathryn.cawte at ntlworld.com  Fri Jul 11 17:33:32 2003
From: kathryn.cawte at ntlworld.com (Kathryn)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:33:32 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Hoping for some help from the UK
References: <bemsk6+3aj4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <006701c347d2$8d9592c0$8966fea9@Jayraj>

Well you iknow since everyone seems to be putting in an advert for their favourite university I'd like to suggest Royal Holloway. Part of the University of London with both classes in London and a beautiful rural campus complete with stately home. Attracts a lot of US students - especially to the history department. Very close to historic and beautifl Windsor - in fact I live there and commute. 

K


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From kirst_inn at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Jul 11 17:51:44 2003
From: kirst_inn at yahoo.co.uk (Kirstini)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:51:44 -0000
Subject: Hoping for some help from the UK
In-Reply-To: <006701c347d2$8d9592c0$8966fea9@Jayraj>
Message-ID: <bemtfg+8gmt@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Kathryn" 
<kathryn.cawte at n...> wrote:
> Well you iknow since everyone seems to be putting in an advert for 
their favourite university:

Ooh, me too. Come to sunny Aberdeen, with a university founded at 
the same time as Colombus was sailing the ocean blue, ancient, 
cloistered, ivy covered campus and great English department 
specialising in Scottish literature, Modernism and Romanticism. 
Besides, it's a much nicer city than Dundee! ;D

Kirstini, starting inter-city wars for fun.




From kathryn.cawte at ntlworld.com  Fri Jul 11 18:12:05 2003
From: kathryn.cawte at ntlworld.com (Kathryn)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:12:05 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Hoping for some help from the UK
References: <bemtfg+8gmt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000501c347d7$f01ed8c0$8966fea9@Jayraj>

Ooh, me too. Come to sunny Aberdeen, with a university founded at 
the same time as Colombus was sailing the ocean blue, ancient, 
cloistered, ivy covered campus and great English department 
specialising in Scottish literature, Modernism and Romanticism. 
Besides, it's a much nicer city than Dundee! ;D

And wetter! By sunny she means cloudy. And wet.

K
*did I mention how rainy Scotland is? Especially Aberdeen*


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From timregan at microsoft.com  Fri Jul 11 18:30:38 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:30:38 -0000
Subject: Hoping for some help from the UK
In-Reply-To: <belvq5+epm3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bemvoe+76dj@eGroups.com>

Hi Jennifer,

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter jennl602 wrote:
> I <...> am interested in 
> going to school in the UK.  
> I am interested in humanities and social studies mostly -- 
> English, history, or political science.

A couple of points:
1) We call it university not school. If you say school to an English 
person they'll assume you are talking about High School (or 
Elementary / Middle).
2) English degrees are more subject focused and less pick-and-mix 
than US ones. This comes in part from our earlier specialization 
(though it's broader in Scotland and the rest of Europe). At 18 or 
so we take `A' levels, and they tend to be pretty focused, e.g. I 
did two math, physics, and chemistry, so I'd effectively stopped all 
humanities subjects at age 16. The net effect of this is that you 
want to factor subject into your choice of subject early on. Some 
universities are great at particular subjects. For Example Warwick 
has a fantastic Math department.

I also find that if someone recommends an institution that they did 
not attend, that says way more about the academic reputation than a 
recommendation of your own university. No-one seems to volunteer the 
information that they went somewhere intellectually awful. But for 
night-life and other social factors, you cannot beat personal 
recommendation.

Also, it's a trite thing to say but do try to attend the university 
with the best reputation you can (e.g. Oxford and Cambridge first, 
then the red brick universities or the best at your subject choice 
second) as that will always look impressive on your resume. I didn't 
take that advice - I choose the university closest to my girlfriend. 
We're married now with two kids so that works too :-)

York (where I read maths) has a good English department and is on 
the outskirts of really really beautiful city. I know we hate her, 
but A.S. Byatt's quartet is in part about the founding of York 
University (or at least I'm guessing that's what she's referring 
to). "The Virgin in the Garden" and "Still Life" are the first two. 
They are fantastic.

Cheers,

Dumbledad.









From hypercolor99 at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 19:57:14 2003
From: hypercolor99 at hotmail.com (alice_loves_cats)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:57:14 -0000
Subject: A.S.Byatt and Hagrid not dying
In-Reply-To: <bemvoe+76dj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ben4qq+9v70@eGroups.com>

Dumbledad wrote:

> I know we hate her, 
> but A.S. Byatt's quartet is in part about the founding of York 
> University (or at least I'm guessing that's what she's referring 
> to). "The Virgin in the Garden" and "Still Life" are the first two. 
> They are fantastic.

Alice:

Umm, why do we hate A. S. Byatt? Who's we? Are you referring to an
earlier discussion? Or is it just generally passe to like her?

My Dad thinks she's impossibly awful, trying to sound far more
intellectual than 1) she is 2) anyone is interested in. I personally
have read only one of her books, it was okay, I even decided to read
another one some time (I read The Shadow of the Sun), but, well... I
haven't got round to it yet. 

A different topic: Dumbledad, I seem to remember you saying pre-OOP
that your wife would go off HP entirely if Hagrid died, as he's her
favourite character. Am I right? Believe it or not, half the time I
spent worrying over Hagrid I in fact spent worrying over how your wife
would feel. Considering all I know of her is that she's called Kate
(I'm not even quite sure of that), that's quite strange, isn't it? The
reason is probably that I myself am not that mad about Hagrid, so I
wouldn't have missed him all that much, but I was deeply disturbed at
the thought that somebody would be put off the whole HP-universe if he
was killed off.

I'm going to Croatia early tomorrow morning, and have not finished
packing (it's almost 10 o'clock). I really should go back. I'm going
to miss the HPFGU-lists, though, and the HP-books too... no, I am NOT
lugging that house-brick of a book with me. Although, to be honest,
it's more to do with being worried that the book might get damaged in
the journey than its size/weight. I've never been to Croatia before,
even though it's a neighbouring country (I live in Hungary). Anyway,
see you in just over a week's time.

Love, Alice






From Ali at zymurgy.org  Fri Jul 11 20:43:14 2003
From: Ali at zymurgy.org (Ali)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 20:43:14 -0000
Subject: Hoping for some help from the UK
In-Reply-To: <bemsk6+3aj4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ben7h2+qj91@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "marl2580" <marley2580 at b...> 
wrote:

<<<The thing to remember when deciding between Scottish universities 
and universities elsewhere in the UK is that Scottish degrees are 
usually 4 years rather than 3. This is because we usually get a 
degree with honours, I'm not  sure if it's a better degree but it's 
pretty rare to stop in third year when at a Scottish university. 
Anyway, good luck.>>>

3 year degrees at the traditional universities in England and Wales 
are also degrees with honours. I thought that the difference was 
that Scottish kids leave school one year earlier than their English 
and Welsh conterparts, so that the first year of Scottish University 
is equivalent to the last year of English and Welsh school?

Ali

(who can recommend Manchester University. The setting for some of 
the best - and worst moments of my life. I can recommend it for its 
access to great City Life - although erm, Manchester itself is 
perhaps not the prettiest of towns, it is one of the liveliest).




From ression at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 23:22:10 2003
From: ression at hotmail.com (ER)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 23:22:10 -0000
Subject: Terry Pratchett (was: Re: Author recommendation)
In-Reply-To: <139.227a2fdb.2c404c2c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <bengr2+ntre@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Audra1976 at a... wrote:
> >From: "ER" <ression at h...>
> >
> >Could anybody recommend a good "starter" book by Terry Pratchett?
> >
> 
> The Discworld books are good "for a bit of light reading" as 
Hermione would 
> say.  

Thanks Audra (and Terry James too) for the recommendations. I'll dip 
a toe in the water and let you know how I get on. Some many books, so 
little time ...

ER




From ression at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 23:36:59 2003
From: ression at hotmail.com (ER)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 23:36:59 -0000
Subject: Hoping for some help from the UK
In-Reply-To: <bemvoe+76dj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <benhmr+s758@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tim Regan" <timregan at m...> 
wrote:

> Also, it's a trite thing to say but do try to attend the university 
> with the best reputation you can (e.g. Oxford and Cambridge first, 
> then the red brick universities or the best at your subject choice 
> second) as that will always look impressive on your resume.

Yup, avoid the New Universities (formerly Polytechnics) if you can. 
No doubt there are good ones, but some of them offer courses not 
considered to be too academically challenging. And if one can believe 
what one reads in Private Eye (UK satirical magazine with a serious 
side to it), then others are having difficulties making ends meet. 

The broad-minded among you may wish to check out 

http://www.cynicalbastards.com/ubs/index.html

for what seems like a fairly accurate picture of one of the New 
Universities :) Warning - Viz-style (sort of a very rude version of 
Mad) humour.

> 
> York (where I read maths) has a good English department and is on 
> the outskirts of really really beautiful city.

It is a lovely city. Fairly high pub/head-of-population ratio too :) 

ER




From anneu53714 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 12 00:14:40 2003
From: anneu53714 at yahoo.com (Anne)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:14:40 -0000
Subject: Hardy Boys/Bobbsey Twins/etc
In-Reply-To: <003e01c3474b$e20fee40$cf9ccdd1@RVotaw>
Message-ID: <benjtg+7f66@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Richelle Votaw" 
<rvotaw at i...> wrote:
> What's amazing is that I read these books in the early 1980's.  My 
grandmother read some of the same books in the late 1920's.  Wow.
> 
> Richelle
> 
> 
I read the Bobbsey Twins in the late 1950s-early 1960s. I think I 
read Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys in the 1960s.

Anne U
(one of the official old people here)





From anneu53714 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 12 00:22:00 2003
From: anneu53714 at yahoo.com (Anne)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:22:00 -0000
Subject: other childrens literature
In-Reply-To: <20030711061916.37067.qmail@web14203.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <benkb8+5fp3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Tyler Hewitt <tahewitt at y...> 
wrote:> For completely different reasons, I love Daniel
> Pinkwater. His books are hysterically funny, full of
> puns, wordplay and absurd plot twists. Often a serious
> message lurks behind all the tomfoolery, but Pinkwater
> never lets on to this. He has a big cult following
> among adults, I wouldent be surprised if more adults
> than kids read his work.

I haven't read any of Daniel Pinkwater's books, but his excellent 
story "The Blue Moose" appears in a wonderful anthology called "You 
Read to Me and I'll Read to You." The stories in there are wonderful 
and most of them are short enough to be one-shot bedtime stories. (Of 
course my daughter is used to listening to 20+ pages of HP per night 
so we only use these stories now for nights when she's too tired to 
listen to that many pages.)

> 
> William Steig also writes great children's books. My
> favorite of his is Dominic, a very moving story about
> a donkey who has adventures and lears a lot about life
> in the process.
> 

I believe William Steig also wrote the story Amos and Boris, about 
the friendship between a mouse and a whale. This also appears in You 
Read to Me and I'll Read to You.

Anne U
(excited that my soon-to-be 2nd grader wants to read EVERYTHING she 
sees now!!)





From timregan at microsoft.com  Sat Jul 12 00:51:47 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:51:47 -0000
Subject: Hoping for some help from the UK
In-Reply-To: <benhmr+s758@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <benm33+5o6q@eGroups.com>

Hi Jennifer,

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter Jennifer wrote:
> I am going to be a high school senior next year and am interested 
in 
> going to school in the UK.  I am hitting a lot of brick walls when 
it 
> comes to researching what are the best schools there because any 
site 
> I find seems to only want to concentrate on the US.  So I was 
hoping 
> that someone from the UK could tell me what some of the top 
> universities are over there (besides the obvious two...Cambridge 
and 
> Oxford).  I am interested in humanities and social studies mostly -
- 
> English, history, or political science.

The Guardian does a table of who the best universities in the UK 
are. It's here
<http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/unitable/0,,-4668575,00.html>

It ranks the top 10 UK universities as
1. Cambridge   
2. Oxford    
3. London School of Economics 
4. School of Oriental &African Studies
5. University College London
6. York
7. Imperial College
8. Nottingham 
9. Warwick
10. King's College London

You can also view subject by subject here
<http://education.guardian.co.uk/universityguide>

The top five for English are
1. Cambridge 
2. Nottingham 
3. University College London 
4. Glasgow  
5. Oxford

The top five for history are 
1. Cambridge
2. London School of Economics
3. King's College London  
4. University College London  
5. Royal Holloway and Bedford New College  
(wow ? that's four London colleges in the top five and no Oxford!) 

They don't have a table for politics that I can find. But do try 
digging around the site. 

Although being good at research and being good at teaching are not 
the same thing, a university department's research standing is one 
measure of how good it is. These are `measured' and available 
online. 5 means great, 1 means awful. To check the 2001 results go 
to 
<http://education.guardian.co.uk/researchratings/> 
and pick a subject. For example English is here 
<http://education.guardian.co.uk/researchratings/table/0,11229,-
4319369,00.html> 
It also includes a column listing what percentage of the lecturers 
were entered into the review. A means 95 ? 100%. It's 2001 data 
though.

Cheers,

Dumbledad.






From kirst_inn at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Jul 12 01:01:44 2003
From: kirst_inn at yahoo.co.uk (Kirstini)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 01:01:44 -0000
Subject: Hoping for some help from the UK
In-Reply-To: <ben7h2+qj91@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <benmlo+nbuc@eGroups.com>

Ali:>I thought that the difference was 
that Scottish kids leave school one year earlier than their English 
and Welsh conterparts, so that the first year of Scottish University 
is equivalent to the last year of English and Welsh school?


Well, you can *choose* to go at seventeen, but it's not technically 
equivilant, as most people going on to uni don't do this. We used to 
be able to take CSYS (I think they've got a new system now)in sixth 
year, which is 17-18  and it was essentially an introduction to 
university modualar teaching. The difference is in the degree. I've 
got an MA, where my friends who went to English universities left 
one year earlier than I did with a BA.
(But then, as Dumbledad so wisely pointed out, nobody wants to 
announce that they had a substandard education...)
Kirstini

PS - Kathryn, it doesn't rain that much in Aberdeen at all. You're 
thinking of the west coast, you, you...London propagandaist!




From susannahlm at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 12 01:10:36 2003
From: susannahlm at yahoo.com (derannimer)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 01:10:36 -0000
Subject: Other Children's Literature
Message-ID: <benn6c+igpl@eGroups.com>

Tyler wrote:

> For completely different reasons, I love Daniel
> Pinkwater. His books are hysterically funny, full of
> puns, wordplay and absurd plot twists. Often a serious
> message lurks behind all the tomfoolery, but Pinkwater
> never lets on to this. He has a big cult following
> among adults, I wouldent be surprised if more adults
> than kids read his work.
> My favorite Pinkwater books: Alan Mendholsson the Boy
> From Mars, Young Adult Novel, Lizard Music, both
> Snarkout Boys books, Borgel. Many of his books are out
> of print, but two large collections of novels have
> apeared in paperback, so you can get 4-5 complete
> books under one cover.
 
I *LOVE* _Alan Mendelsohn the Boy from Mars_! It must have been one of my favorite 
kids' books when I was a kid! Samuel Klugarsh! And the Bermuda Triangle Chili Parlor, 
with the awesome corn bread!  And the principal singing over the P.A. system! And 
what I later caught as a Goon Show reference:

"'Waka-Waka. Needle nardle noo. Hoop waka dup-dup. Baklava. That's Turkish,' said 
Samuel Klugarsh."

I just *love* that book. 

Also E. Nesbit -- I remember finishing _The Railway Children_ for the first time and 
missing it so much that I started rereading it right away, and a book called _Gone-
Away Lake_, which I haven't reread in ever so, so I don't know if I can still recommend 
it. And the three _Freaky Friday_ books. And _Anne of Green Gables_, of course. And 
things with lots of horses in them. And Sherlock Holmes.

And, er.

Agatha Christie, from the age of about ten to the time I discovered Lord Peter 
Whimsey. Possibly my ideal man.




Derannimer, who thinks she would have missed a lot of stuff in Harry Potter if she 
had read it when she was much younger. For one thing, she doubts she'd be half so 
fond of Severus Snape.




From psychic_serpent at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 12 05:21:38 2003
From: psychic_serpent at yahoo.com (psychic_serpent)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 05:21:38 -0000
Subject: Other Children's Literature
In-Reply-To: <benn6c+igpl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <beo5t2+di1d@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "derannimer" 
<susannahlm at y...> wrote:
> Also E. Nesbit -- I remember finishing _The Railway Children_ for 
> the first time and missing it so much that I started rereading it 
> right away, and a book called _Gone-Away Lake_, which I haven't 
> reread in ever so, so I don't know if I can still recommend 
> it. And the three _Freaky Friday_ books. And _Anne of Green 
> Gables_, of course. And things with lots of horses in them. And 
> Sherlock Holmes.

I adored Gone-Away Lake, as well as the sequel.  Gone-Away Lake also 
had stuff in it about alchemy and the Philosopher's Stone.  Once upon 
a time, an American publisher didn't think this was beyond the ken of 
American kids. ;)  I also liked the fact that the Gone-Away books 
were illustrated by Beth and Joe Krush, who also illustrated all of 
the books about the Borrowers, which I reread until they were falling 
apart.  In fact, I went out of my way a lot of the time to look for 
books specifically illustrated by the Krushes, and I usually found 
the stories they chose to illustrate to be top notch!  It was a 
technique that never failed me when I was looking for new reading 
material and I'd run out of things written by my favorite (known) 
authors.  I did the same thing with books illustrated by Erik 
Blegvad.  Loved his work.

I didn't read the Anne books until I was an adult, actually, so I 
liked them well enough, but I was never really addicted to them like 
some girls I knew.  There were three Freaky Friday books?  I 
obviously missed something.  
 
> Agatha Christie, from the age of about ten to the time I discovered 
> Lord Peter Whimsey. Possibly my ideal man.

I did like kid detective books, although I wasn't especially fond of 
Nancy Drew or the Hardy Boys. Everything always seemed too neat and 
easy for them.  And I have to sort of turn my brain off to tolerate 
reading the Boxcar Children to my daughter.  And brush my teeth a lot 
afterward, as the BC books are SO sweet. ;)

I preferred mysteries such as E.L. Konigsberg's, an author someone 
else mentioned who was/is absolutely brilliant and NEVER condescended 
to kids.  I also loved Kin Platt's mysteries about a boy on Long 
Island who had a bulldog named "Sinbad" but they're out of print and 
very hard to find now.  I still reread all of Jane Langton's books 
about the Hall family (coincidentally, illustrated by the wonderful 
Erik Blegvad), with the wacky uncle who reminds me so of Arthur 
Weasley, except that he's nuts about the Transcendentalists 
(especially Emerson and Thoreau) instead of plugs. <g>
 
> Derannimer, who thinks she would have missed a lot of stuff in 
> Harry Potter if she had read it when she was much younger. For one 
> thing, she doubts she'd be half so fond of Severus Snape.

I know what you mean; my kids absolutely LOATHE Snape.  I've reminded 
them that technically he's one of the good guys, but they still can't 
stand him.  Now that we've had Umbridge, however, they've 
acknowledged that it's possible for a teacher to be worse than him.  
Look what it took!

--Barb

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychic_Serpent
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb





From mandm at discover-net.net  Sat Jul 12 05:43:18 2003
From: mandm at discover-net.net (Mary)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 05:43:18 -0000
Subject: Teachers & HP
In-Reply-To: <bekjj0+6pn9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <beo75m+kc4v@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "grindieloe" <andie at k...> 
wrote:
> I know this is OT-chatter, but I hope this is not TOO OT! 
> I've been noticing recently that many Harry fans happen to be 
> teachers! :)  I am a teacher (5th grade), and was wondering what 
> percentage of adult fans happen to also be teachers??? What other 
> professions seem to be high on the HP Fan list? 
> 
> grindieloe

Just a step sideways from teachers are the librarians - and there are 
many of us who are just wild about Harry on a couple of levels. If 
you watched the webcast of the Royal Albert Hall interview, it was 
profoundly moving to see children of all ages from all around the 
world telling Harry's story in their own words. Like our young friend 
Daniel Radcliffe, children who read Harry Potter often will move on 
to other works of literature.  That means they're showing up at the 
library eager for more to read.  Ya gotta love it!

As for being an adult fan, there is a simplistic beauty in children's 
literature that appeals to world-weary adults - who are constantly 
being told that they must read the critically acclaimed and trendily 
edgy to be considered intelligent. Harry has renewed my love for 
children's lit, and I have been re-reading some beloved favorites so 
I can recommend them to young patrons.  It is amazing how much there 
is to glean from these multi-layered texts once they are approached 
from the perspective of adulthood. I am far more in love with 
J.K.R.'s work as an adult than I could have been as a child, and I'm 
reasonably sure that I would have been pretty obsessed then! 

Mary, who is currently re-reading Madeline L'Engle's "A Wrinkle in 
Time" and having lots of fun drawing parallels between Meg Murray and 
Harry Potter.




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Sat Jul 12 05:48:45 2003
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:48:45 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Teachers & HP
In-Reply-To: <bekjj0+6pn9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3F102DDD.14313.17E17CD@localhost>

On 10 Jul 2003 at 20:50, grindieloe wrote:

> I know this is OT-chatter, but I hope this is not TOO OT! 
> I've been noticing recently that many Harry fans happen to be 
> teachers! :)  I am a teacher (5th grade), and was wondering what 
> percentage of adult fans happen to also be teachers??? What other 
> professions seem to be high on the HP Fan list? 

At the moment, I'm a part-time student/part-time computer intelligence 
and security specialist, who does a lot of volunteer work on various 
educational issues.

The reason I'm a part time student is because I'm working towards my 
B.Ed. so I can be teacher. So not a teacher yet. But I should be 
eventually (-8

Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 12 14:43:10 2003
From: jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com (Haggridd)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:43:10 -0000
Subject: FINAL REMINDER: Pickled Toad Award, Best Filk!
Message-ID: <bep6pu+ee8l@eGroups.com>

This is your last opportunity for you to vote for the big one:  The 
Best Filk of the Year!

Please vote in the poll at OT Chatter if you have not done so.

Haggridd  




From anneu53714 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 12 15:24:21 2003
From: anneu53714 at yahoo.com (Anne)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:24:21 -0000
Subject: Speaking of filks - a serious request
Message-ID: <bep975+lpi7@eGroups.com>

I love filks. I even enjoy writing filks (though admittedly I am not 
very good at it). I am asking this here because I don't want to get 
my hands slapped for doing so on the main list, so here goes: 

Wouldn't it be wonderful if everyone who posted a filk included a 
link to a midi or some other AUDIO version of the song being filked?? 
I've included an audio link with every song I've filked because I 
don't want to assume that everyone is familiar with the song. I've 
noticed a lot of people posting filks with NO audio links, and this 
bothers me more than a little, because there are 89 gazillion songs 
out there in the songosphere and it's impossible for anyone to be 
familiar with all of them. Anyway please consider this a PLEA to 
PLEASE include a link to an audio version of the song. If that means 
sending us to a sound clip on Amazon or on a band's website, so be it.

List Elves, could y'all request this? I believe it would help a lot 
of people more fully appreciate the filks.

Anne U
(hoping I'm not the only person who is bothered by this)





From bettedavisgreen at aol.com  Sat Jul 12 18:57:25 2003
From: bettedavisgreen at aol.com (bettedavisgreen at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:57:25 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Speaking of filks - a serious request
Message-ID: <7d.3a88bb37.2c41b415@aol.com>

Dans un e-mail dat? du 12/07/2003 17:25:37 Paris, Madrid (heure d'?t?), 
anneu53714 at yahoo.com a ?crit :

> Wouldn't it be wonderful if everyone who posted a filk included a 
> link to a midi or some other AUDIO version of the song being filked?? 
> <snip>
> List Elves, could y'all request this? I believe it would help a lot 
> of people more fully appreciate the filks.
> 
> Anne U
> (hoping I'm not the only person who is bothered by this)
> 
> 

Here here! Please do, if there is no copyright problem with that. 

As non-american and non-british I admit I have a huge difficulty in 
appreciating filks, and have even given up on them (well... I still skim them for the 
lyrics...) because I really don't know almost any of the songs used...

Cristina 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From ameliagoldfeesh at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 12 19:43:36 2003
From: ameliagoldfeesh at yahoo.com (ameliagoldfeesh)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:43:36 -0000
Subject: Prepare to lose Months of your RL- Sims Makin' Magic
Message-ID: <bepod8+c0mi@eGroups.com>


The Leaky Cauldron posted a link to the new Sims expansion pack - 
http://thesims.ea.com/us/news/makin_magic_features.html -.

The Sims will allow you to make a magical-oriented community.  While 
I'm looking forward to this (now maybe my HP characters won't have 
to use anything as prosaic as a microwave) I know that I'll be 
wasting waaay too much time on it.

-an excited A Goldfeesh 
(Now I *will* have to get a refurbished G4!)




From Audra1976 at aol.com  Sun Jul 13 01:57:35 2003
From: Audra1976 at aol.com (Audra1976 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 21:57:35 -0400
Subject: Decorating (Faux stone wall finish)
Message-ID: <62028616.1D9A4548.022D3A68@aol.com>

<<I'll locate the painting book where I got the technique from this weekend and post it for you.>>

Okay, here it is if you're interested.  This may sound complicated, but it is really very simple.  The stone effect is really created in the first two steps.  The other steps are just outlining blocks and adding shadow to make it look three-dimensional:

You will need:

-Emulsion (latex) paint in whatever stone color you want (should be a light color unless you want a really dark room), plus a slightly darker version of that color for the shadows, plus off-white.
-large brush
-card stock A3 size 
-pencil
-2.5 cm (1 inch) paintbrush
-swordliner (you can get this at a large craft store or paint store)

1.) Use the large brush to apply a base coat of the stone color in random sweeping strokes, leaving a mottled surface.  Let dry.
2.) Repeat step 1 with the off-white paint, but use a dry brush this time, scraping off the excess and applying paint in alternating directions, letting some of the base color show through.  This gives the stone texture.
3.) Draw the blocks of stone by puttng the card stock against the wall and drawing around it with pencil.  Start at the bottom corner of the wall and work your way up and over.  Stagger the blocks in each row with the row underneath it (like bricks).
4.) Using the off-white, add a stroke of light on the left side of each block and on the bottom of each block.  Blend the off-white into the middle of the block with a dry brush so it doesn't look like a stripe.
5.) Outline each block with the swordliner and the darker color paint, slightly curving the corners so the edges of the stone do not look too rigid.
6.) Highlight the top and the right side of each block using the sword liner and the off-white paint.


-Audra-




From jennl602 at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 13 03:31:31 2003
From: jennl602 at yahoo.com (jennl602)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 03:31:31 -0000
Subject: Thanks!
Message-ID: <beqjqj+hiiu@eGroups.com>

I just wanted to post a quick thanks to all the people who responded -
especially Nina, all the information was great.  I am currently 
looking into many of the different schools and found some of the 
sites suggested to me quite helpful.  Thanks again!

~Jennifer




From heidit at netbox.com  Sun Jul 13 14:30:06 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:30:06 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Speaking of filks - a serious request
In-Reply-To: <7d.3a88bb37.2c41b415@aol.com>
References: <7d.3a88bb37.2c41b415@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1058106612.1C997C9F@w5.dngr.org>

The problem is that there is potential copyright problem with creating a 
soumdfile and uploading it here on the yahoogroup, and there's a space 
problem with it too. I'm sure the mods would delete any songs that were 
uploaded into the files section for these two reasons.

For those who don't know, I'm a copyright/trademark attorney, and while 
creating filks likely falls inside the same fair use protection that 
fanfic gets, because it's a commentary on or discussion of the 
underlying work, making a copy of the song itself, and distributing that 
song, doesn't get the same level of protection.

It's why, when I filk, I always link to either the song on an official 
site, if it's there, or to an authorized snip of the song on amazon or 
some other online store, again, if it's there. That's legal, that's 
safe.

And I know if anyone wants to get a copy of it illegally, they can head 
over to google or use a fileswapping program and get it that way, but I 
don't feel right providing the links/info myself...

Heidi, who isn't giving any legal advice


On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 2:57PM -0500, bettedavisgreen at aol.com wrote:
> Real-To:  bettedavisgreen at aol.com
>
> Dans un e-mail dat? du 12/07/2003 17:25:37 Paris, Madrid (heure d'?t?),
> anneu53714 at yahoo.com a ?crit :
>
>>  Wouldn't it be wonderful if everyone who posted a filk included a
>>  link to a midi or some other AUDIO version of the song being filked??
>>  <snip>
>>  List Elves, could y'all request this? I believe it would help a lot
>>  of people more fully appreciate the filks.
>>
>>  Anne U
>>  (hoping I'm not the only person who is bothered by this)
>>
>>
>
> Here here! Please do, if there is no copyright problem with that.
>
> As non-american and non-british I admit I have a huge difficulty in
> appreciating filks, and have even given up on them (well... I still 
> skim them for the
> lyrics...) because I really don't know almost any of the songs used...
>
> Cristina
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin 
> Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary 
> material from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to 
> HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- 
> MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
> Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Jul 13 15:02:16 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 15:02:16 -0000
Subject: Reminder - Weekly Chat 
Message-ID: <1058108536.29.33029.m15@yahoogroups.com>


We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Weekly Chat 

Date: Sunday, July 13, 2003 
Time: 11:00AM - 7:00PM CDT (GMT-05:00) 

Hi everyone! 

Don't forget, chat happens today, 11 am Pacific, 2 pm Eastern, 7
pm UK time. *Chat times are not changing for Daylight
Saving/Summer Time.*  Chat generally goes on for about 5 hours,
but can last as long as people want it to last.

Go into any Yahoo chat room and type /join HP:1 
For further info, see the Humongous BigFile, section 3.3.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/hbfile.html#33

Hope to see you there! 

 





From bard7696 at aol.com  Sun Jul 13 17:49:08 2003
From: bard7696 at aol.com (darrin_burnett)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:49:08 -0000
Subject: Mr. and Ms. Philosopher's Stone - I love the 80s
Message-ID: <bes62k+tnlg@eGroups.com>


Hey, it's the D-Man (darrinburnett) and the R-Babe,(rachelbeth) 
bringing you the moment you've all been waiting for...

Mr. and Ms. Philosopher's Stone.

Now, do not get all a-twitter about any SHIP possibilities. Mr. and 
Ms. is a figure of speech, you knuckleheads. It's humor!

Without further ado...

He...was a gangly, freckled red-head from the wrong side of de tracks 
who wizarding family who befriended our boy and took Prof. McG's 
chess pieces to the woodshed for an ass-whipping! 

She...was a red-haired, green-eyed beauty who made the the ultimate 
sacrifice, countering evil with a love so pure it saved her son and 
brought down the Dark Lord. Did ya hear that Lord Thingy? L-O-V-E. 
Look it up, dumbass! Man, I need to call my mudda. <sniff>

There you have it. Mr. and Ms. Philosopher's Stone, Ron Weasley and 
Lily Potter. What is it about red-heads?


Darrin and Rachel
-- Not endorsing any SHIPS in anyway whatsoever!





From bard7696 at aol.com  Sun Jul 13 17:50:01 2003
From: bard7696 at aol.com (darrin_burnett)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:50:01 -0000
Subject: Mr. and Ms. Chamber of Secrets - I love the 80w
Message-ID: <bes649+8dmu@eGroups.com>


It's us, the D-man and the R-babe, bringing you Mr. and Ms. Chamber 
of Secrets. Is it just me or does that title sound kinda dirty?

Remember, this is HUMOR! We're not endorsing any SHIPS, so just keep 
your sick little minds to yourselves!

He...grew up an orphan, dabbled in the Dark Arts as a student, and 
preserved his young self in his little black book. And he STILL 
managed to possess a young girl and unleash a Basilisk on the 
school. Okay...what the <bleep> is a Basilisk?

She...was a blushing, starry-eyed red-head who poured her most 
private thoughts into a diary and was slowly possessed by the memory 
within. Lucky for her, my boy Harry saved her before she became a 
memory herself. Whatta guy.

We give you, Mr. and Ms. Chamber of Secrets, Tom Riddle and Ginny 
Weasley.

Darrin and Rachel
- Don't even start with the SHIP business on this one. He's a memory 
and she's eleven. Sick!





From bard7696 at aol.com  Sun Jul 13 17:50:59 2003
From: bard7696 at aol.com (darrin_burnett)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:50:59 -0000
Subject: Mr. and Ms. Prisoner of Azkaban - I love the 80s
Message-ID: <bes663+o05v@eGroups.com>


It's the D-Man and the R-Babe, bringing you Mr. and Ms. Prisoner of
Azkaban. Are you on the edge of your seat? Good, don't fall over.

Remember, no SHIPs in this dock!

He... sent hearts-a-flutter with his shabby clothes and sad, puppy-
dog eyes and deep dark secret. And ladies, we hear he's got a hell of 
a wolf whistle. But he's also got a wicked "dat time of the month" if 
you get our drift.

She... studied about 59 subjects at once, spinning her little thingy 
around her neck and still getting good grades AND helped save Sirius 
and Buckbeak. But best of all, she also slapped the taste out of the 
mouth of that little Nancy-boy, Draco.

We give you, Mr. and Ms. Prisoner of Azkaban, Remus Lupin and 
Hermione Granger.

Darrin and Rachel
- Remember, you sickos, this is humor and we are not advocating or 
opposing any SHIPs. Save it for the fanfics.





From gandharvika at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 13 17:51:19 2003
From: gandharvika at hotmail.com (Gail Bohacek)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:51:19 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Speaking of filks - a serious request
Message-ID: <Law8-F56iz2Mb1s7nlT000046d5@hotmail.com>

Anne U. Wrote:

>Wouldn't it be wonderful if everyone who posted a filk included a
>link to a midi or some other AUDIO version of the song being filked??
>I've included an audio link with every song I've filked because I
>don't want to assume that everyone is familiar with the song. I've
>noticed a lot of people posting filks with NO audio links, and this
>bothers me more than a little, because there are 89 gazillion songs
>out there in the songosphere and it's impossible for anyone to be
>familiar with all of them. Anyway please consider this a PLEA to
>PLEASE include a link to an audio version of the song. If that means
>sending us to a sound clip on Amazon or on a band's website, so be it.
>
>List Elves, could y'all request this? I believe it would help a lot
>of people more fully appreciate the filks.

Dig it.  Midis are also quite helpful to check if the filk you've just 
written scans properly.

Personally,  I always try to add a link myself but yesterday I posted a filk 
without one because the only Midi that I could find  did not follow the 
original tune.  That kind of thing frustrates me to no end because it looks 
like *I'm* the one who made the mistake with my lyrics.  A little 
discrepancy is alright, but all the sites I looked under for that song 
offered the same miserable Midi.  Anyway...I digress...

I'm speaking from experience now, that sometimes one is not able to find an 
audio link if the song is too obscure or too recent.  Show tunes are 
especially difficult.

Also,  if you're a new to filking, you may not even know how to find Midis.  
The way I look for them is to go to Google and type in the name of the 
artist, the title of the song, and add the word "Midi" to end...then press 
"search".  Then I start opening different sites until I find one that works. 
  You'd be surprised at what you find.

-Gail B.

_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail




From bard7696 at aol.com  Sun Jul 13 17:52:01 2003
From: bard7696 at aol.com (darrin_burnett)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:52:01 -0000
Subject: Mr. and Ms. Goblet of Fire - I love the 80s
Message-ID: <bes681+94d0@eGroups.com>


Hey, it's the R-Babe and the D-Man again, and we bring you Mr. and 
Ms. Goblet of Fire. Try to restrain your excitement. We just washed 
the sheets.

Get outta here with dose SHIPS!

He... kept his cool when the dark mark thingy started burning into 
his arm, and even found time to blast apart some bushes to look for 
necking kids, the little pervert. Turns out the greaseball was 
working for the good guys all along.

She... shook her hair and batted her eyes and turned the entire male 
population of three schools to treacle, whatever the hell dat is, but 
then she finished last in the big tournament. Now we hear Billy 
Weasley is giving her some tutoring, if you get our meaning.

We give you, Mr. and Ms. Goblet of Fire. Severus Snape and Fleur 
Delacour

Darrin and Rachel
- Remember, this is in no way meant to encourage, discourage, or any 
kind of courage the SHIP theories out there. Don't e-mail us. We 
don't want to hear it.





From bard7696 at aol.com  Sun Jul 13 17:53:27 2003
From: bard7696 at aol.com (darrin_burnett)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:53:27 -0000
Subject: Mr. and Ms. Order of the Phoenix - I love the 80s
Message-ID: <bes6an+rg6s@eGroups.com>

Hey, it's the R-Babe and the D-Man, bringing you Mr. and Ms. Order of 
the Phoenix. We know you'll find a way to restrain yourself.

Now entering the anti-SHIP zone.

He... spent 12 years locked away in Azkaban for a crime he didn't 
commit. Ehh, don't drop the soap, kid! Then he got out, reunited with 
his godson and found himself trapped in his old mudda's house. Then, 
he fell through some veil-thingy and fricking DIED! Whoa.

She... also did some time in Azkaban, and came out just as pissed off 
as ever. She's got a hubby, but anyone else think she wouldn't mind 
helping old Lord Thingy a few other ways, oh! Uses real bad curses on 
kids and sent her dear old cousin spinning through the veil-thingy. 
Man, what a bitch. Never trust a woman with "trix" in the name.

That's right, Sirius Black and Bellatrix Lestrange are Mr. and Ms. 
Order of the Phoenix.

Darrin and Rachel
-- They are cousins, you sickos! Stop it! Get it out of your head!
 





From joym999 at aol.com  Sun Jul 13 18:21:24 2003
From: joym999 at aol.com (joywitch_m_curmudgeon)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:21:24 -0000
Subject: Nimbus 2003 registration for sale
Message-ID: <bes7v4+247f@eGroups.com>

I am registered for Nimbus 2003 next weekend, but due to some 
unfortunate financial problems, I am unable to go.  I registered when 
the cost was $149, and I believe the cost is now $179.  I would like 
to sell my registration to someone who wants to go but can not afford 
the $179.  I am flexible about the price -- I mostly would like to 
enable someone else to go and get some of my money back.

If you would like to go to Nimbus, or know someone who would, and are 
interested in this, please email me offlist at joym999 at aol.com 
(joym999 AT aol DOT com).

--Joywitch, sadly




From anneu53714 at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 13 20:28:26 2003
From: anneu53714 at yahoo.com (Anne)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:28:26 -0000
Subject: Speaking of filks - a serious request
In-Reply-To: <1058106612.1C997C9F@w5.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <besfda+8li7@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Heidi Tandy" <heidit at n...> 
wrote:
> The problem is that there is potential copyright problem with 
creating a 
> soumdfile and uploading it here on the yahoogroup, and there's a 
space 
> problem with it too. I'm sure the mods would delete any songs that 
were 
> uploaded into the files section for these two reasons.
> 
>...SNIP>>> 
> It's why, when I filk, I always link to either the song on an 
official 
> site, if it's there, or to an authorized snip of the song on amazon 
or 
> some other online store, again, if it's there. That's legal, that's 
> safe.
> 

That is EXACTLY what I was advocating, Heidi. Just a link to an audio 
file of the song (or part of the song, which is more likely on a site 
like Amazon). The best way to find them (IMO) is by searching in the 
music directory on Google. I believe the HP filks site also has some 
filking resources, including links to websites full of midi files.

Thanks for helping me clarify this,

Anne U





From ratalman at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 14 00:12:03 2003
From: ratalman at yahoo.com (ratalman)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:12:03 -0000
Subject: Do vampires have an acute sense of hearing?
Message-ID: <bessgj+evdu@eGroups.com>

Can somebody help me out with this:  do vampires have an 
especially acute sense of hearing?  I seem to remember having 
read this somewhere, but can't put my finger on it.  I've tried 
searching the archives in HPFGU, but to no avail.   I'm 
formulating some thoughts about Snape, but need more info.  
Thanks!




From dippytrish at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 14 00:14:09 2003
From: dippytrish at yahoo.com (DippyTrish)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:14:09 -0000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <besskh+83jg@eGroups.com>

Hi, I am not sure if this is allowed or not... but I looked through 
the rules and couldnt find anything stating it wasnt. :)  

I am starting a new HP group, based in the Marauders time at 
Hogwarts.  It *IS* going to have spoilers from the new book, so if 
you havent read it yet I suggest that you dont try and join until you 
do. :)  We are currently looking for people to fill a lot of cannon 
characters, and some original characters.  It should be a lot of 
fun!  If you are interested, here is the link. We wont be starting 
the story for a while to give other people a chance to read the 
book... so if you have read it or not, you might want to join 
anyways! Thanks!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/5thYearMarauders




From boggles at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 14 00:29:24 2003
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 19:29:24 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Do vampires have an acute sense of hearing?
In-Reply-To: <bessgj+evdu@eGroups.com>
References: <bessgj+evdu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <p05200f02bb37a8a8a87e@[192.168.1.100]>

At 12:12 AM +0000 7/14/03, ratalman wrote:
>Can somebody help me out with this:  do vampires have an
>especially acute sense of hearing?

Depends on the country of origin of the vampire.  ;)=

Seriously, there are an awful lot of legends and myths about various 
beings that all get lumped together as "vampire" myths.  In some of 
those stories, the vampire has several heightened senses - usually 
exceptional hearing, a sense of smell like a wolf's, and the ability 
to see in dim light.  In others, the vampire's senses are essentially 
the same as a human's.  The more modern the story, the more likely 
the "exquisite senses" angle is to be played up, but it does appear 
in some of the older myths as well - just not all (or even the 
majority) of them.

Bear in mind, also, that JKR does not feel honor-bound to follow the 
myths to the letter - her house-elves are really brownies, her Veela 
don't appear to be warrioresses, and Lupin can handle silver.  We 
don't know what attributes *her* vampires might have.
-- 

  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles(at)earthlink.net
"It is not knowledge, but the act of learning, not possession but the 
act of getting there, which grants the greatest enjoyment. "
	- Gauss, in a Letter to Bolyai, 1808.



From Erthena at aol.com  Mon Jul 14 03:51:06 2003
From: Erthena at aol.com (werebearloony)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:51:06 -0000
Subject: greetings on a most unusual day
Message-ID: <bet9ba+a3hj@eGroups.com>

As a friend of mine commented to me, it's a very wierd day (if you 
count a day as a 24 hour period of time,which most insomniacs like 
us do).  It contains both the full moon (as werebears retain 
sentience I am writing this with oversized bear claws and wondering 
why it could wait till morning)  and bastille day the french 
independence day.  This is at least an interesting occourence and I 
thought it deserved mentioning.  Now I'm going to have a kodiak 
moment and roar at anyone who wakes me up for the next 8 hours.
--loony
"awwww look it's a kodiak moment"  --The genie in Aladin and the 
King of Thieves




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Mon Jul 14 04:02:15 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 04:02:15 -0000
Subject: Reminder - Nimbus - 2003 
Message-ID: <1058155335.405.59444.m14@yahoogroups.com>


We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Nimbus - 2003 

Date: Thursday, July 17, 2003 
Time: All Day

Nimbus - 2003, the first international Harry Potter event,
begins at the Swan Hotel in Orlando, Florida (more info at
http://www.hp2003.org) 

 





From bettedavisgreen at aol.com  Mon Jul 14 16:01:20 2003
From: bettedavisgreen at aol.com (bettedavisgreen at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:01:20 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] greetings on a most unusual day
Message-ID: <12d.2d81ea32.2c442dd0@aol.com>

Dans un e-mail dat? du 14/07/2003 05:52:25 Paris, Madrid (heure d'?t?), 
Erthena at aol.com a ?crit :

> As a friend of mine commented to me, it's a very wierd day (if you 
> count a day as a 24 hour period of time,which most insomniacs like 
> us do).  It contains both the full moon (as werebears retain 
> sentience I am writing this with oversized bear claws and wondering 
> why it could wait till morning)  and bastille day the french 
> independence day.  This is at least an interesting occourence and I 
> thought it deserved mentioning.  Now I'm going to have a kodiak 
> moment and roar at anyone who wakes me up for the next 8 hours.
> --loony
> "awwww look it's a kodiak moment"  --The genie in Aladin and the 
> King of Thieves
> 
> 

And I must say the Arc du Triomphe with a huge full moon just above, 
yesterday night, was simply awesome... Great pic. But as there were so many policemen 
and soldiers in the Etoile preparing for the big 14th July parade, we couldn't 
stop to take it...

I did manage to take a couple near the Eiffel tower, if you want I can give 
you a link in a couple of days, after I've developped the film.

We were at 4 in the morning driving down the Champs Elys?es, looking at all 
the preparations, a couple of hours before they closed the whole area, and all 
the soldiers, tanks, and horses marched... I'm not french, and actually I've 
never liked them very much. But things like this make me have to agree they do 
also have a great history, and they can certainly show it... (I'm portuguese, 
huge history, but no skills in celebrating it...)

Cristina


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Mon Jul 14 17:22:28 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:22:28 -0000
Subject: Disqualifying OPCs ("Other People's Children")
Message-ID: <beuosk+67r1@eGroups.com>

Hey,

I had an interesting experience this weekend.  I recently completed 
the training to become a certified Stroke and Turn Judge for swim 
meets in our county.  It was a three-hour class in which they went 
over the requirements for each stroke and grounds for 
disqualification.  They also spent plenty of time telling us that we 
have to be 100% sure of a violation before we call it, but if we see 
it, we *have* to call it.  Even if the kid was losing the race by a 
country mile anyway.  Even if the kid has pigtails and is as cute as 
a button.  Even if the kid's parents are standing right there and 
Grandma flew in from across the country to watch.

I now appreciate how difficult it is to officiate.  There are four 
stroke and turn judges covering six lanes, so I had to keep an eye on 
three swimmers while they were in my half of the pool.  Geez, there 
is so much water churning that it is hard to see much of anything!  
When all three swimmers hit the wall at once, I couldn't focus on 
more than one, let alone remember what I was supposed to be watching 
for in the turn.  At times, my own children were swimming, so my eyes 
kept creeping over to see how they were doing.  I was worried that 
I'd have to disqualify my own kids and also trying hard not to be too 
critical of the other team's swimmers!

Fortunately, most of the kids swam correctly, and I didn't have to 
disqualify anyone.  

Until the butterfly -- the final event.  This poor boy was doing his 
level best, but butterfly was not his strength, shall we say.  Then I 
saw it -- a definite flutter kick instead of the required dolphin 
kick.  I winced and raised my hand to signal the violation.  The 
referee scooted over and grilled me:  What did I see, was I sure?  
Fortunately, the kid did it again while the referee was watching, so 
I was off the hook.  Whew!

How anyone manages to referee a fast-moving sport like American 
football or basketball, I'll never know.

Anyway, I'm on tap to officiate again on Wednesday for what is known 
as the "B" meet for, erm, novice swimmers.  I am told 
disqualifications are rampant.  Urgh.

Does anyone else have experience officiating?  What sport?  Does this 
get any easier?

Cindy -- who only learned to swim a couple of years ago and can't do 
much of anything in the water




From timregan at microsoft.com  Mon Jul 14 17:51:13 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:51:13 -0000
Subject: Sandman: where do the three eve stories come from?
Message-ID: <beuqih+kfi6@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

Having read (well listened to) Neil Gaiman's "American Gods" (great 
book) and read his "Coraline" to my kids (wonderfully creative book, 
not quite as well written) I'm reading the works that first made him 
famous, his Sandman comics. They are now sold as ten graphic novels. 
They are fabulous ? and you can see loads of the plot ideas he uses 
later tried out first.

Now to my question.

In book VI "Fables and Reflections" (my favourite of the series) the 
baby Daniel goes to Abel's house in The Dreaming and everyone tells 
him a story. Eve (who now lives in a cave in The Dreaming) tells him 
that there were three Eves, three wives of Adam. The first was made 
of dust, like Adam, but proves too spirited for him so they separate 
and she goes off to consort with demons. The second was constructed 
from flesh and bone, and having seen what lies beneath her skin 
during the construction process, Adam is too put-off to love her; so 
she stays a virgin. No-one knows where she went. Third time lucky. 
God uses one of Adam's ribs and we have the Eve story I'm familiar 
with.

Where do the first two stories come from? Did Gaiman make them up 
(they don't feel like he did)?

Cheers,

Dumbledad.





From terryljames at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 14 18:32:32 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:32:32 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sandman: where do the three eve stories come from?
Message-ID: <BAY8-F107Gz0tWqhUYL0000d94d@hotmail.com>




>From: "Tim Regan" <timregan at microsoft.com>
The first was made
>of dust, like Adam, but proves too spirited for him so they separate
>and she goes off to consort with demons.

I have heard a story that Adam had a first wife named Lilith, who was really 
evil (maybe a demon in disguise).  "Lilith" from Frasier always makes me 
laugh because of this.  Not sure where I heard it or what the complete story 
is.

Terry LJ

_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail




From june.diamanti at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 19:04:05 2003
From: june.diamanti at blueyonder.co.uk (junediamanti)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:04:05 -0000
Subject: Sandman: where do the three eve stories come from?
In-Reply-To: <beuqih+kfi6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <beuur5+scui@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tim Regan" <timregan at m...> 
wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Having read (well listened to) Neil Gaiman's "American Gods" 
(great 
> book) and read his "Coraline" to my kids (wonderfully creative 
book, 
> not quite as well written) I'm reading the works that first made 
him 
> famous, his Sandman comics. They are now sold as ten graphic 
novels. 
> They are fabulous ? and you can see loads of the plot ideas he 
uses 
> later tried out first.
> 
> Now to my question.
> 
> In book VI "Fables and Reflections" (my favourite of the series) 
the 
> baby Daniel goes to Abel's house in The Dreaming and everyone 
tells 
> him a story. Eve (who now lives in a cave in The Dreaming) tells 
him 
> that there were three Eves, three wives of Adam. The first was 
made 
> of dust, like Adam, but proves too spirited for him so they 
separate 
> and she goes off to consort with demons. The second was 
constructed 
> from flesh and bone, and having seen what lies beneath her skin 
> during the construction process, Adam is too put-off to love her; 
so 
> she stays a virgin. No-one knows where she went. Third time lucky. 
> God uses one of Adam's ribs and we have the Eve story I'm familiar 
> with.
> 
> Where do the first two stories come from? Did Gaiman make them up 
> (they don't feel like he did)?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Dumbledad.

The source, I read in in interview with Neil, is the Talmud.

June




From editor at texas.net  Mon Jul 14 19:58:04 2003
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:58:04 -0000
Subject: I need to find a lawyer
Message-ID: <bev20c+bofa@eGroups.com>

Okay, troops.

My husband is in the civil service. He has been royally shafted by 
his boss and pursuing matters through civilian personnel are not 
productive. I think we need a lawyer.

What kind of lawyer am I looking for? And does anyone have any 
references for that kind, in the San Antonio area?

Thanks,

Amanda




From Chasewildstar at comcast.net  Mon Jul 14 20:02:26 2003
From: Chasewildstar at comcast.net (Chase Wildstar)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:02:26 -0400
Subject: why?
Message-ID: <002401c34a42$d9530720$9c01f50c@mac>

I get on Yahoo chat, and go to the harry potter rooms.. Nothing but kids, and rarly voice chats.

Im also on Paltalk, where there are a lot of UK Folks.. but no Harry Potter rooms.. How come?
Any of you UK folks out there got a voice chat room?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From DaveH47 at mindspring.com  Mon Jul 14 22:32:16 2003
From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:32:16 -0000
Subject: Musical Harry
Message-ID: <bevb1g+af4s@eGroups.com>

I know someone very musical (She's my voice teacher and director of
my church's choir) who is involved in a summer music camp, and their
upcoming theme is Harry Potter and Music.  She was asking me what
she might possibly do with that theme (She's not familiar with the 
books).  I suggested encourging the kids to try to use their creativity
to put music to things like the Hogwarts School Song, Ginny's Singing
Valentine, "Weasley is Our King", and the Sorting Hat's Songs; but I just
thought I'd ask if anyone here had any ideas for integrating Harry Potter
into musical kids' activities.

Please E-mail me at: JelliaJamb at mindspring.com   

Thanks ahead!

--
Dave






From boggles at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 14 23:33:34 2003
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:33:34 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sandman: where do the three eve stories
 come from?
In-Reply-To: <beuqih+kfi6@eGroups.com>
References: <beuqih+kfi6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <p05200f06bb38edf11ae7@[192.168.1.100]>

At 5:51 PM +0000 7/14/03, Tim Regan wrote:
>
>Eve (who now lives in a cave in The Dreaming) tells him
>that there were three Eves, three wives of Adam.

The first one was Lilith, who was co-equal with Adam and thus 
completely unacceptable to the patriarchs.  They had to turn her into 
an owl-demon.

This website covers the multiple-Eve tradition pretty thoroughly:

http://www.lilithmag.com/resources/lilithsources.shtml

-- 

  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles(at)earthlink.net
"It is not knowledge, but the act of learning, not possession but the 
act of getting there, which grants the greatest enjoyment. "
	- Gauss, in a Letter to Bolyai, 1808.



From anneu53714 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 15 00:14:11 2003
From: anneu53714 at yahoo.com (Anne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:14:11 -0000
Subject: I need to find a lawyer
In-Reply-To: <bev20c+bofa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bevh0j+m50o@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Amanda" <editor at t...> wrote:
> Okay, troops.
> 
> My husband is in the civil service. He has been royally shafted by 
> his boss and pursuing matters through civilian personnel are not 
> productive. I think we need a lawyer.
> 
> What kind of lawyer am I looking for? And does anyone have any 
> references for that kind, in the San Antonio area?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Amanda

You need someone who specializes in labor law. Unfortunately I don't 
know anyone in San Antonio who does that (though I do have a bunch of 
non-HP friends there). The one person I do know who is an experienced 
labor attorney is unavailable, as he is now head of a very large 
state agency here in Wisconsin and he probably already works 12 hours 
per day. You might consider filing a grievance with the National 
Labor Relations Board. My husband did that many years ago (before I 
met him) when he got shafted by the newspaper chain he worked for.

Anne U
(good luck!)





From editor at texas.net  Tue Jul 15 03:07:21 2003
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Geist)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:07:21 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sandman: where do the three eve stories come from?
References: <BAY8-F107Gz0tWqhUYL0000d94d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <004501c34a7e$365e72c0$706463d1@texas.net>

> >From: "Tim Regan" <timregan at microsoft.com>
> The first was made
> >of dust, like Adam, but proves too spirited for him so they separate
> >and she goes off to consort with demons.

Terry:
>
> I have heard a story that Adam had a first wife named Lilith, who was
really
> evil (maybe a demon in disguise).  "Lilith" from Frasier always makes me
> laugh because of this.  Not sure where I heard it or what the complete
story
> is.

I remember a reference in the Chronicles of Narnia to Adam's first wife,
named Lilith, who was not human but was kin to the djinn or giants or
something. C.S. Lewis didn't tend to make those things up; and I dimly
remember something of the sort from Milton? maybe.

~Amanda, interested. Try Jewish lore.




From jillily3g at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 15 04:31:35 2003
From: jillily3g at yahoo.com (Beth)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 04:31:35 -0000
Subject: Decorating
In-Reply-To: <bekogr+kq1m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf0037+7k5a@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "grindieloe" <andie at k...> 
wrote:
>     and I'd love to do 
> some kind of special finish on the walls... faux castle walls 
maybe? 
> (Naah, too hard maybe.)  

I have to share this site I was exploring today (bookmarked it for 
the recipes and then forgot about it ;o)) 
http://www.britta.com/hogwarts/decor/index.html

The thing is, this is a /temporary/ decorating scheme! I thought it 
might have some ideas you could adapt.

Regarding the ceiling: I painted my girls' ceiling a "sky" blue, 
sponged in some clouds, and then used a slightly watered down glow-
in-the-dark paint for stars. You have to leave the lights shining 
directly on the ceiling for a while to get the full effect in the 
dark, but it's pretty cool and you don't notice the stars during the 
day unless you really look. (I would suggest looking for a finish 
that matches the glow paint. You can just use craft paint rather 
than buying a big can.) I just wish I'd thought to plot out some 
constellations before I started dabbing stars....

Beth




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 15 11:29:15 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:29:15 -0000
Subject: I need to find a lawyer
In-Reply-To: <bev20c+bofa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf0oib+u7r0@eGroups.com>

Amanda wrote:

> My husband is in the civil service. He has been royally shafted by 
> his boss and pursuing matters through civilian personnel are not 
> productive. I think we need a lawyer.

Ditto on Anne's recommendation.  My sister's a labor lawyer--I'll ask 
her how one goes about tracking one down in San Antonio.  Another, 
possibly more relevant option is an *employment* lawyer.  They aren't 
the same thing.

If he belongs to a union, that's also a place to start, though maybe 
his grievance is against his union as well as his employer?

Big hug and good luck,
Amy Z




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 15 11:57:04 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:57:04 -0000
Subject: Sandman: where do the three eve stories come from?
In-Reply-To: <beuqih+kfi6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf0q6g+45f3@eGroups.com>

Dumbledad wrote:

> Eve (who now lives in a cave in The Dreaming) tells him 
> that there were three Eves, three wives of Adam. The first was made 
> of dust, like Adam, but proves too spirited for him so they 
separate 
> and she goes off to consort with demons. The second was constructed 
> from flesh and bone, and having seen what lies beneath her skin 
> during the construction process, Adam is too put-off to love her; 
so 
> she stays a virgin. No-one knows where she went. 

Yeah, as people have said, Lilith shows up in a lot of Jewish 
folklore.  There's been some interesting re-creation of this myth by 
modern feminist theologians who note that Lilith was pretty spunky 
and maybe ought to be rehabilitated now that we don't take so kindly 
to religion's main message to women being "obey your husbands."  
Judith Plaskow wrote a story about her and Eve:  "The Coming of 
Lilith: Toward a Feminist Theology" in Womanspirit Rising, which was 
edited by Plaskow and Carol Christ.  It's funny and sharp.  Plaskow 
identifies this project as being in the Midrashic tradition, the same 
rabbinic tradition of creative commentary on the Bible that generated 
stories like Lilith in the first place.  Lilith does get an explicit 
mention in the Bible, in Isaiah 34:14.

Re: the second Eve, perhaps she corresponds to the Eve of the first 
creation story in Genesis:

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and 
let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over 
the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that 
move along the ground."  So God created man in his own image, 
in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. 
(Genesis 1:26-27, King James Version)

The creation-from-the-rib version comes later, in Genesis 2:7, 15-
24.  Gaiman, or whoever he got it from, is using some poetic license, 
since there's nothing to indicate that Eve was created first.  But 
it's significant that the Eve of the first creation story has a 
better shot of being equal to Adam than the rib-Eve in that the 
former was created at the same time as he, explicitly in God's image 
(but of course, God was a MAN and Eve is a MERE WOMAN.  Never forget 
that God has a penis.  And a Y chromosome in each cell of His body.  
And testosterone flowing out of His endocrine system). 

;-)
Amy Z
v pleased with herself for doing all this Biblical research so early 
in the morning




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 15 12:42:26 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:42:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Belated Birthday Wishes x 2!
Message-ID: <20030715124226.16673.qmail@web41101.mail.yahoo.com>

*makes her best Birthday Elf effort to make the room
look extra special and brings out the biggest cake she
can fit on the table*

Yes, I've been bad and forgotten birthdays again. Two
of them this time.

July 10th's birthday honouree was mohammedi and July
12th's honouree was Anne Urbanski. Belated birthday
owls can be sent care of this list or directly to:
anneu53714 at yahoo.com and violettaprimrose at hotmail.com

I hope you both had magical days filled with joy, fun
and everything HP.

Happy Birthday, mohammedi!
Happy Birthday, Anne!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf

=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 15 17:28:08 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:28:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sandman: where do the three eve stories come from?
In-Reply-To: <bf0q6g+45f3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030715172808.56528.qmail@web21110.mail.yahoo.com>

Amy Z, in part:
> Yeah, as people have said, Lilith
> shows up in a lot of Jewish 
> folklore.  There's been some
> interesting re-creation of this myth 
> by modern feminist theologians who
> note that Lilith was pretty spunky 
> and maybe ought to be rehabilitated
> now that we don't take so kindly 
> to religion's main message to women
> being "obey your husbands."  

Yes, amazing isn't it, that *spiritual* 
matters, once institutionalized by a 
particular group (any particular group), 
usually ends up favoring that said group 
in matters of *power* in terms of who 
gets to yield such power.  All too often, 
spirituality, which should be foremost in 
religions, somehow ends up a lesser 
concern.

On a completely different cultural front: 
wasn't the Lilith Fair named for this 
alternate concept of Eve?

> The creation-from-the-rib version
> comes later, in Genesis 2:7, 15-
> 24.  Gaiman, or whoever he got it
> from, is using some poetic license, 
> since there's nothing to indicate
> that Eve was created first.  But 
> it's significant that the Eve of
> the first creation story has a 
> better shot of being equal to Adam
> than the rib-Eve in that the 
> former was created at the same
> time as he, explicitly in God's
> image

Y'know, that creation-from-the-rib 
image has always seem like a male 
version of birthing-from-the-womb 
to me.
 
> (but of course, God was a MAN and
> Eve is a MERE WOMAN.  Never forget 
> that God has a penis.  And a Y
> chromosome in each cell of His body.  
> And testosterone flowing out of His
> endocrine system).

<HA!>  Just cracked MY rib trying to 
not guffaw out loud while on the 
company time clock!

So, <idly a-wondering> when did God 
have his bris?

Petra
a
n  :)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com



From charisjulia at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 15 17:49:09 2003
From: charisjulia at hotmail.com (charisjulia)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:49:09 -0000
Subject: Speak You English?
Message-ID: <bf1eql+ii1n@eGroups.com>

Well, I spent the day today clearing out my room and the cellar from 
all the assorted junk that I had't realised was there, and while 
going through a pack of papers saved in a folder I came across an 
article cut out from the magazine that accompanies our Sunday 
newspaper. It contained a collection of "gems" in the use of the 
English language collected from all over the globe and sent in by the 
readers of the magazine and it's rather . . . entertaining. Well, at 
least the first time my family read it we were helpless. And I'm 
still grinning madly after going through them all again, so I thought 
I'd share. This id a selection of those which made me laugh the 
hardest:

Restaurant, Nairobi: "Customers who find our waitresses rude ought to 
see the manager'

Cocktail bar, Norway: "Ladies are kindly requested not to have 
children in the bar"

Hotel, Acapulco: "The manager has personally passed all the water 
served in this establishment"

Instructions leaflet for the air-conditioning, hotel, Japan: "Cooles 
and Heates: If you want condition of warm air in your room, please 
control yourself"

Notice of a hand- drying machine in a public toilet: "Do not activate 
with wet hands"

Hotel, Tokyo: "Guests are requested not to smoke or do other 
disgusting behaviours in bed"

Menu at a restaurant, Switzerland: "Our wines leave you nothing to 
hope for"

Bar, Tokyo: "Special cocktails for the ladies with nuts"

Hotel, Bucharest: "The lift is being fixed for the next day. During 
that time we regret that you will be unbearable"

Hotel opposite a cemetery, Moscow: "You are welcome to visit the 
cemetery where famous Russian and Soviet composers, artists and 
writers are buried daily except Thursday"

Hotel, Paris: "Please leave your values at the desk"

Hotel, Japan: "You are invited to take advantage of the chambermaid"

Hotel at a sky resort, Austria: "Not to perambulate the corridors in 
the hours of repose in the boots of ascension"

Hotel, Hong Kong: "For you convenience, we recommend courteous, 
efficient self-service"

Signpost in the Black Forest, Germany: "It is strictly forbidden on 
our Black Forest camping site that people of different sex, for 
instance, men and women, live together in one tent unless they are 
married with each other for that purpose"

Hotel, Zurich: "Because of the impropriety of entertaining guests of 
the opposite sex in the bedroom, it is suggested that the lobby be 
used for that purpose"

Laundrette, Rome: "Ladies, leave your clothes here and spend the 
afternoon having a good time"

Pub, London: "Open seven days a week and weekends too"

Pension, Switzerland: "Special Today: No Ice-Cream"

Hotel, Moscow: "If this is your first visit to the USSR, you are 
welcome to it"

Charis Julia, who once came across a menu in a Greek taverna 
featuring lamb cooked in spit in the specials section.





From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 15 21:22:58 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:22:58 -0000
Subject: Sandman: where do the three eve stories come from?
In-Reply-To: <20030715172808.56528.qmail@web21110.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bf1rbi+ke2v@eGroups.com>

Petra Pan wrote:

> On a completely different cultural front: 
> wasn't the Lilith Fair named for this 
> alternate concept of Eve?

What's the Lilith Fair?

> Y'know, that creation-from-the-rib 
> image has always seem like a male 
> version of birthing-from-the-womb 
> to me.

Sure.  Womb envy.  It's classic.  (And Freud had it too.  How else 
could he come up with that ridiculous idea?  Honestly.  Raise your 
hands, women who wish they had a penis.  Raise your hands, men who 
wish they could give birth to a brand-new human being from their own 
bodies.  <looks around at the few women and the many, many men with 
their hands up>  Thought so.  I'll keep the womb, thanks.)

> So, <idly a-wondering> when did God 
> have his bris?

On the eighth day, o' course!  Why do you think the story stops at 
day seven?

;-)
Amy Z




From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 00:00:22 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:00:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Lilith Fair {was} Sandman: where do the three eve stories come from?
In-Reply-To: <bf1rbi+ke2v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030716000022.47417.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com>

Yours truly:
> On a completely different cultural front: 
> wasn't the Lilith Fair named for this 
> alternate concept of Eve?

Amy Z: 
> What's the Lilith Fair?

<snip giggle-inducing thoughts on penis- 
& womb-envy and bris for the divine>

Lilith Fair is the all-woman music 
festival that ran for three years 
and featured Sarah McLachlan, 
Sheryl Crow, Melissa Etheridge, 
Jewel, Nelly Furtado, Dixie Chicks, 
Indigo Girls and others (hope I got all 
those right!).  It grossed $28 million+ 
in 1998, making it one of the most 
successful musical tours of that season. 

Petra
a
n  :)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com



From timregan at microsoft.com  Wed Jul 16 00:02:13 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:02:13 -0000
Subject: OotP Jacket
In-Reply-To: <bdae55+oos0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf24m5+6tpi@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter grindieloe wrote:
> After getting it home and taking a look at it, I 
> noticed that it didn't quite look like I thought it was supposed 
> to... the title, author, (raised words) part of the jacket were 
not 
> colored in any way.  I remember all of the pictures I had seen of 
the 
> cover, and realized that those words should be blue.  Mine were 
not!  


Check out 
<http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2003/Jul/15/il/il03a.html>

Cheers,

Dumbledad.




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Jul 16 00:24:27 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:24:27 -0000
Subject: Community as image (was Sandman)
In-Reply-To: <bf0q6g+45f3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf25vr+aepa@eGroups.com>

Amy quoted:

> Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and 
> let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, 
over 
> the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that 
> move along the ground."  So God created man in his own image, 
> in the image of God he created him; male and female he created 
them. 
> (Genesis 1:26-27, King James Version)

and glossed:
> 
> The creation-from-the-rib version comes later, in Genesis 2:7, 15-
> 24.  Gaiman, or whoever he got it from, is using some poetic 
license, 
> since there's nothing to indicate that Eve was created first.  But 
> it's significant that the Eve of the first creation story has a 
> better shot of being equal to Adam than the rib-Eve in that the 
> former was created at the same time as he, explicitly in God's 
image 

...and the 'us'... 'our'... 'our'... 'them'?

David




From joym999 at aol.com  Wed Jul 16 01:40:28 2003
From: joym999 at aol.com (joywitch_m_curmudgeon)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:40:28 -0000
Subject: Speak You English?
In-Reply-To: <bf1eql+ii1n@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf2aec+jjmg@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "charisjulia" 
<charisjulia at h...> wrote:

> Hotel, Japan: "You are invited to take advantage of the chambermaid"

I've seen this list before, and this one has always been my favorite.

> Charis Julia, who once came across a menu in a Greek taverna 
> featuring lamb cooked in spit in the specials section.

which gives me the chance to once again mention my all-time favorite 
restaurant menu typo -- there is a Chinese restaurant here in DC 
which serves "bean crud."

--Joywitch, who is watching the All-Star game, like she does every 
year, even though it is boring




From andie at knownet.net  Wed Jul 16 03:19:17 2003
From: andie at knownet.net (grindieloe)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 03:19:17 -0000
Subject: OotP Jacket
In-Reply-To: <bf24m5+6tpi@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf2g7l+3nur@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tim Regan" <timregan at m...> 
wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter grindieloe wrote:
> > After getting it home and taking a look at it, I 
> > noticed that it didn't quite look like I thought it was supposed 
> > to... the title, author, (raised words) part of the jacket were 
> not 
> > colored in any way.  I remember all of the pictures I had seen of 
> the 
> > cover, and realized that those words should be blue.  Mine were 
> not!  
> 
> 
> Check out 
> 
<http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2003/Jul/15/il/il03a.html>
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Dumbledad.


THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!! I can't 
thank you enough for pointing me to this link!  I wrote to them and 
told them that person does not have the only "lone copy" to make it 
out to the public... I have one too!!! :)  Again, thanks SO MUCH! :)

grindieloe :)




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 12:36:38 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:36:38 -0000
Subject: Community as image (was Sandman)
In-Reply-To: <bf25vr+aepa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf3gsm+hgd1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "David" <dfrankiswork at n...> 
wrote:
> Amy quoted:
> 
> > Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, 
and 
> > let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, 
> over 
> > the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures 
that 
> > move along the ground."  So God created man in his own image, 
> > in the image of God he created him; male and female he created 
> them. 
> > (Genesis 1:26-27, King James Version)
> 
> and glossed:
> > 
> > The creation-from-the-rib version comes later, in Genesis 2:7, 15-
> > 24.  Gaiman, or whoever he got it from, is using some poetic 
> license, 
> > since there's nothing to indicate that Eve was created first.  
But 
> > it's significant that the Eve of the first creation story has a 
> > better shot of being equal to Adam than the rib-Eve in that the 
> > former was created at the same time as he, explicitly in God's 
> image 
> 
> ...and the 'us'... 'our'... 'our'... 'them'?

The gods, or God using the royal We.  Another difference between the 
two versions is that one has a singular God and the other a plural 
(Elohim, literally "gods").

I imagine it's been used as scriptural evidence of a Trinity.  But 
it's also reminiscent of the Babylonian creation story, in which the 
gods, as in, the whole committee, come up with the idea of creating 
humans.

Amy Z




From ldenell at apl.org  Wed Jul 16 15:40:51 2003
From: ldenell at apl.org (ldenell at apl.org)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:40:51 -0500
Subject: hurricanes
Message-ID: <E00569F3DB6D3E418AACCF8DF30BBB110723FD@apl.org>

Just a shout out to Amanda and our other southern Texas members -- hope
y'all made it through the hurricane and related mess all right!

- Linda, in hurricane-proof Wisconsin



From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 18:08:40 2003
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:08:40 -0000
Subject: Nimbus envy
Message-ID: <bf44b8+97jo@eGroups.com>

*SIGH*


For those of us not going to Nimbus, will there be anyone going that 
can give us a daily update...or something??  I can't be there, but I 
sure would like to know what is going on and how great it is.  And 
pictures?  PLEASE?  *tries to sound really pathetic*

Alora, who wishes that blasted hurricane would creep up northward so 
we can have some rain




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 18:51:43 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:51:43 -0000
Subject: Nimbus envy
In-Reply-To: <bf44b8+97jo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf46rv+bmnf@eGroups.com>

Alora wrote:

> For those of us not going to Nimbus, will there be anyone going 
that 
> can give us a daily update...or something??  I can't be there, but 
I 
> sure would like to know what is going on and how great it is.  

I second that.  And I'm really envious.  And I hope it is a 
wonderful, smashing success and everyone has a great time and you 
decide to hold them four times a year, at least one really near me.

Amy Z




From heidit at netbox.com  Wed Jul 16 20:21:46 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:21:46 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Nimbus envy
In-Reply-To: <bf46rv+bmnf@eGroups.com>
References: <bf46rv+bmnf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1058386910.1C036553@s5.dngr.org>

Better than daily...

Ixchelmala and I will be among the attendees making live-from-the-scene 
wireless reports on the hporlando livejournal, which is at 
http://www.livejournal.com/~hporlando - bookmark it and check it for the 
updates!

Heidi of the wireless sidekick
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 2:53PM -0500, Amy Z wrote:
> Real-To:  "Amy Z" <lupinesque at yahoo.com>
>
> Alora wrote:
>
>>  For those of us not going to Nimbus, will there be anyone going
> that
>>  can give us a daily update...or something??  I can't be there, but
> I
>>  sure would like to know what is going on and how great it is.
>
> I second that.  And I'm really envious.  And I hope it is a
> wonderful, smashing success and everyone has a great time and you
> decide to hold them four times a year, at least one really near me.
>
> Amy Z
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin 
> Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary 
> material from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to 
> HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- 
> MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
> Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



From editor at texas.net  Wed Jul 16 21:32:15 2003
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:32:15 -0000
Subject: hurricanes
In-Reply-To: <E00569F3DB6D3E418AACCF8DF30BBB110723FD@apl.org>
Message-ID: <bf4g8v+h4t0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, ldenell at a... wrote:
> Just a shout out to Amanda and our other southern Texas members -- 
hope
> y'all made it through the hurricane and related mess all right!
> 
> - Linda, in hurricane-proof Wisconsin

Just very wet. Stirs up all the many-legged life; we have two types 
of venomous spider down here and I had to deal with *both* of them 
before 8 am yesterday.

~Amanda




From zorb47 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 21:57:12 2003
From: zorb47 at yahoo.com (zorb47)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:57:12 -0000
Subject: Sexy Sirius
Message-ID: <bf4hno+so1d@eGroups.com>

Hi everyone.  At some point in this group's history, a member asked 
JKR if Sirius was supposed to be dead sexy (or something along those 
lines), and she replied in the affirmative.  I know the exact details 
of what happened are recorded somewhere, but I can't seem to find 
them.  Anyone know?

Replies can be sent off-list to zorb47 AT yahoo DOT com.  Thanks!


Zorb




From pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk  Thu Jul 17 00:05:08 2003
From: pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk (bluesqueak)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:05:08 -0000
Subject: hurricanes
In-Reply-To: <bf4g8v+h4t0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf4p7k+106cl@eGroups.com>

> > - Linda, in hurricane-proof Wisconsin wrote:
> > Just a shout out to Amanda and our other southern Texas members -
- 
> 
> > hope y'all made it through the hurricane and related mess all 
> > right!

> > ~Amanda replied:
> Just very wet. Stirs up all the many-legged life; we have two 
> types of venomous spider down here and I had to deal with *both* 
> of them before 8 am yesterday.
> 

Amanda, just tell me there weren't any more Blast Ended Skrewts 
making an appearance. Please. ;-)

Pip
(who's glad the hurricane wasn't too bad)





From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu Jul 17 00:09:21 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:09:21 -0000
Subject: hurricanes
In-Reply-To: <bf4p7k+106cl@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf4pfh+73cv@eGroups.com>

Pip wrote:

> Pip
> (who's glad the hurricane wasn't too bad)

Well, if I were a hurricane, and somebody decided to name me 
Claudette, *I'd* slink away in embarrasment and downgrade to a 
tropical storm, too.

D




From jillily3g at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 17 00:48:05 2003
From: jillily3g at yahoo.com (Beth)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:48:05 -0000
Subject: Creating a wizard marketplace
Message-ID: <bf4ro5+8t58@eGroups.com>

Since we are establishing that so many members have some connection 
to education, I'm hoping someone could point me in the right 
direction. :o)

I will soon (next month!) be teaching a class on Harry Potter at 
a "kids on campus" program. I remember doing an activity in junior 
high in which we visited other students' "businesses" and bought 
goods or services from them. I thought it would be fun for my 
students to create a wizarding world business and do this activity, 
but I'd like some guidance as to how to set it up logistically. I 
can't seem to come up with the right keywords for a search engine. 
Can anyone direct me to a website with a lesson plan like this?

Thanks!
Beth




From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 17 02:25:07 2003
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:25:07 -0000
Subject: hurricanes
In-Reply-To: <bf4g8v+h4t0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf51e3+egu8@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Amanda" <editor at t...> wrote:
> Just very wet. Stirs up all the many-legged life; we have two 
types 
> of venomous spider down here and I had to deal with *both* of them 
> before 8 am yesterday.
> 
> ~Amanda

Amanda,

just send the rain up to Dallas!! JUST the rain, not the spiders.  I 
know, wishful thinking on the rain, but one can only hope.  We're 
having lizard/gekko looking thingies problems right now.  My 4 yr 
old daughter freaked out last night because one was in her room, on 
the ceiling.  They are sort of creepy - transparent orange, with 
black eyes.  They are all over the front porch, all in the garage 
and now they are in the house!  Do you have those down there, too?

Alora




From andie at knownet.net  Thu Jul 17 03:35:00 2003
From: andie at knownet.net (grindieloe)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:35:00 -0000
Subject: Jewlery
Message-ID: <bf55h4+6erf@eGroups.com>

Just wondering if anyone knows of anyplace I can get quality Harry 
Potter jewlery. I would love to get a necklace or gold ring, etc., 
but most of what is out there is geared towards children.  I would 
like to see some real jewelry choices.  I have found a few general 
lightning bolt charms for necklaces, but nothing actually HP.  I was 
hoping for a golden snitch, but have yet to find anyplace that sells 
anything of quality - 14k, etc. If you guys have any idea if these 
things exist or where I can buy them, please share! :)

grindieloe 




From rvotaw at i-55.com  Thu Jul 17 04:01:37 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:01:37 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Jewlery
References: <bf55h4+6erf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <00e501c34c18$1f52c4f0$ffa1cdd1@l3820.tjdo.com>

The only thing I've seen in the line of Jewelry lately is the Italian charms.  And those are bracelets, not necklaces or rings.  You can get them on watches too now.  Sylvan Lane Shoppe has them, and I imagine Ebay does too, as pretty much everything else is there.

Richelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dradamsapple at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 17 04:40:04 2003
From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 04:40:04 -0000
Subject: Creating a wizard marketplace
In-Reply-To: <bf4ro5+8t58@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf59b4+uh1t@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Beth" <jillily3g at y...> wrote:
> Since we are establishing that so many members have some connection 
> to education, I'm hoping someone could point me in the right 
> direction. :o)
> 
> I will soon (next month!) be teaching a class on Harry Potter at 
> a "kids on campus" program. I remember doing an activity in junior 
> high in which we visited other students' "businesses" and bought 
> goods or services from them. I thought it would be fun for my 
> students to create a wizarding world business and do this activity, 
> but I'd like some guidance as to how to set it up logistically. I 
> can't seem to come up with the right keywords for a search engine. 
> Can anyone direct me to a website with a lesson plan like this?
> 
> Thanks!
> Beth

Beth, 

I'm not a teacher, (I just play one on tv . . .hee! I couldn't 
resist!)

My daughter's class studied colonial times two years ago, and did a 
small project on bartering.  Each student had to pick a "business" 
also, and had to have enought of their wares for each student to 
barter with.  My daughter picked "weaver".  My father was a tailor 
and had lots and lots of old material swatches, so she counted out 
enough for each student, and she bartered with other students for 
their goods. She also brought in a very old contraption that belonged 
to my mother, who used to spin her own yarn from sheeps wool.  Some 
of the other kids brought in props as well. (can't think of anything 
specific right now as it was a while ago.)  It was fun to not only 
barter, but see some of the stuff the kids brought in.
  I was lucky enough to be able to go to class with her that day, and 
it was so much fun!  All the kids had to dress up in their colonial 
outfits, and they had a blast! 

My daughters' teacher set up the desks all around the perimeter of 
the room (like a square with three sides), so that there was space to 
move around, and there were a LOT of parent volunteers that day, to 
help the kids out(they were in third grade).

You could probablly do something similar, with maybe two or three 
kids working together to form a "wizard shop".  Have them come up 
with somthing that would be uniquely of the WW, and have them create 
it if they can.  One of my daughter's fellow students offered her 
services as a "printer", and decided to write a small poem, showing 
different print that was available.  She actually rolled these up and 
tied them with ribbon, much like owl post delivery!

I know this isn't  a lesson plan but I hope I've given you some ideas 
to start with.
Good luck and let us know how it turns out!!

Anna. . .  




From jillily3g at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 17 04:52:25 2003
From: jillily3g at yahoo.com (Beth)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 04:52:25 -0000
Subject: Creating a wizard marketplace
In-Reply-To: <bf59b4+uh1t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf5a29+kpof@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "dradamsapple" 
<dradamsapple at y...> wrote:
> Beth, 
> 
> I'm not a teacher, (I just play one on tv . . .hee! I couldn't 
> resist!)
> 
When I used to sell Discovery Toys products (no, this is *not* an 
ad), we often started out our presentations by demonstrating to 
parents that they were their children's most important teachers, so 
wear the title proudly! :o) 

This really fits with what I want to do; especially because I don't 
want them to have to buy things, but to creatively use what they 
already own (including school supplies--that purchase is coming soon 
enough!). 

My biggest problem is how to manage sending them around to each 
others' businesses. I have found a couple of sites where teachers 
used material called Classroom City and may be able to figure it out 
from there.

Thank you for sharing your daughter's experience. It convinces me 
that it *is* feasible. :o)

Beth




From jillily3g at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 17 05:14:32 2003
From: jillily3g at yahoo.com (Beth)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 05:14:32 -0000
Subject: Christians and HP revisited
Message-ID: <bf5bbo+asdv@eGroups.com>

I hadn't asked my dad his opinion of the books before this week. We 
only briefly mentioned them once when he was here last (year-and-a-
half ago) when I asked why families who hated Harry found LOTR, 
Narnia, Wizard of Oz, Cinderella, etc. etc. acceptable and he said 
that some don't. But I needed to email a cousin for info relating to 
my class and I wasn't sure how he'd respond when I asked, so I asked 
my dad his opinion. Bad move.

He said that he thought the series (compared to Narnia's Christian 
allegorical purpose) was written for the sole purpose of making 
money "and who knows what else." He said he didn't care for them for 
no other reason than that it is about witchcraft and kids going to 
school to become witches, although he admitted he hadn't read any. 
Then he said he "just had an uneasy feeling" about the books.

So, now that I've totally not honored my father... I found more 
sites than I'd bookmarked before by Christians in defense of the 
books, but I'm wondering what suggestions those of you who have 
faced this kind of situation have. I might note that Dad was a 
pretty big Star Wars fan until that whole "virgin birth" thing in 
Phantom Menace. (Funny how he wasn't bothered by the Force until 
that...) 

Thanks, 
Beth




From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 17 13:40:56 2003
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:40:56 -0000
Subject: Christians and HP revisited
In-Reply-To: <bf5bbo+asdv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf6918+mo5m@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Beth" <jillily3g at y...> 
wrote:
> I hadn't asked my dad his opinion of the books before this week. 
We 
> only briefly mentioned them once when he was here last (year-and-a-
> half ago) when I asked why families who hated Harry found LOTR, 
> Narnia, Wizard of Oz, Cinderella, etc. etc. acceptable and he said 
> that some don't. 

I go through this with my mother-in-law and brother-in-law and 
sister-in-law.  All three of them are against it, but they have 
never bothered to read it, which frustrates me.  I need to add that 
I come from and I am still a part of a non-denominational, tongue 
talking, healing believing church.  Somehow, they have made me feel 
like an evil mom/person. 


> He said that he thought the series (compared to Narnia's Christian 
> allegorical purpose) was written for the sole purpose of making 
> money "and who knows what else." 

My family says that because the author of Narnia (Carroll? I can't 
remember, it's too early for me) was a Christian, those books are 
okay. GRrrrrrr.  That means LOTR is fine for them, too.  When it 
came time to buy a birthday present for my niece, who's seven, I 
asked them what movie did she want.  "Oh, she loves The Wizard of 
Oz!  She'll love it if you get her that."  Oh.  REALLY.  I sat down 
and watched that movie again, and it's full of good witches, bad 
witches, magic, scary flying monkeys (I remember hating those when I 
was little)...you name it, it's got it.  So, why the double 
standard??  


He said he didn't care for them for 
> no other reason than that it is about witchcraft and kids going to 
> school to become witches, although he admitted he hadn't read any. 
> Then he said he "just had an uneasy feeling" about the books.

Geez, that is my mother-in-law all over!  Quote: "Anything that has 
to do with children learning magic is wrong!"  Good grief, I don't 
dare tell her I like to watch "Charmed"  sometimes.  Actually, no 
one knows I watch that.  Stupid, isn't it?
 
I think I mentioned this last week when we were on the subject, but 
I don't say anything at all, unless someone else brings it up.  It's 
just too touchy a subject for some reason.  I know my pastor says 
it's okay to watch or read things, as long as you know what's 
fantasy.  He says if  there's a little bad along with the good, just 
toss out the bad and focus on the good.  I have to agree, otherwise, 
my kids wouldn't have grown up watching certain movies ;). I'm not 
good at confrontation, so I feel as though I can't win an argument- 
I suppose I shouldn't say "win".  I just want them to know that I'm 
not some sort of bad parent or person for reading HP. If anyone has 
suggestions as to how to make my point, I'm open.   

Frustrated Alora




From kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Jul 17 13:53:08 2003
From: kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk (Kathryn Cawte)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:53:08 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Christians and HP revisited
References: <bf6918+mo5m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3F16AA44.000006.57217@monica>

 
What really gets me when 'Christians' say that HP is evil is that the Pope
and the Archbishop of Canterbury have both praised the series - I mean
seriously if you're a member of a Christian church shouldn't you at least
consider the idea that these two people might just know what they're talking
about?

I mean OK I think a large amount of what the Pope says is rubbish (and I'm
not terribly impressed with the Archbishop after recent events) but then I'm
Christian in name only (ie I had a Christening but I really don't go to
church) most people who rant about the books claim to be committed
Christians and as such should presumably have more respect for these figures
than I do.

K



From terryljames at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 17 14:32:30 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:32:30 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Christians and HP revisited
Message-ID: <BAY8-F70JWrGW6Ex3Ak0000b2a5@hotmail.com>




>From: "alora" <chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com>

>
>--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Beth" <jillily3g at y...>
>wrote:
>
> > He said that he thought the series (compared to Narnia's Christian
> > allegorical purpose) was written for the sole purpose of making
> > money "and who knows what else."
>
>My family says that because the author of Narnia (Carroll? I can't
>remember, it's too early for me) was a Christian, those books are
>okay. GRrrrrrr.


C.S. Lewis.  And the Narnia series cannot really be compared to HP, as Lewis 
was quite clearly writing an allegory of several Bible stories.  However, 
just because books aren't retellings of the Bible doesn't mean they're 
demonic.



When it
>came time to buy a birthday present for my niece, who's seven, I
>asked them what movie did she want.  "Oh, she loves The Wizard of
>Oz!  She'll love it if you get her that."  Oh.  REALLY.  I sat down
>and watched that movie again, and it's full of good witches, bad
>witches, magic, scary flying monkeys (I remember hating those when I
>was little)...you name it, it's got it.  So, why the double
>standard??

Anything new is unknown and therefore probably evil. :)  Movies, television, 
and computers met the same reaction.  Especially the internet.  My 
grandmother tells me that when she was a kid, preachers preached against 
reading the comics in the newspapers.


I'm not
>good at confrontation, so I feel as though I can't win an argument-
>I suppose I shouldn't say "win".  I just want them to know that I'm
>not some sort of bad parent or person for reading HP. If anyone has
>suggestions as to how to make my point, I'm open.
>
>Frustrated Alora
>

Wish I could help you, but I deal with the same thing.  My dad gets on to me 
all the time about reading such "trash" and exposing my kids to demonic 
evil--I let my six-year-old watch most of the first movie, but not the 
second, because contrary to what he thinks, I'm very careful about what my 
kids see or hear.  It doesn't do any good at all to argue with him.  If you 
tell him to read the books, he says he doesn't need to read them, because he 
knows what they're about.  Yet he reads murder mysteries--is it OK to read 
about people getting brutally murdered?

My mom is not very happy about it, but wisely keeps her mouth shut because 
she admits that she hasn't read the books or seen the movies, so all she 
knows is what she's heard.  She says she trusts my judgement.  And I told 
her I grew up reading all kinds of fantasy, sci-fi, AU, and I haven't become 
a goat-blood-drinking Satanist (which would be her own boggart) yet.

Wish everybody was that understanding.  But my dad hasn't approved of 
anything I've ever done anyway (think Snape meets Vernon) so I try to ignore 
him.  Bit difficult, though, when they try to make you feel like a horrible 
parent.

Tery LJ

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail




From jillily3g at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 17 15:11:17 2003
From: jillily3g at yahoo.com (Beth)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:11:17 -0000
Subject: Christians and HP revisited
In-Reply-To: <BAY8-F70JWrGW6Ex3Ak0000b2a5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf6eal+heof@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Terry James" 
<terryljames at h...> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >From: "alora" <chrisnlorrie at y...>
> 
> C.S. Lewis.  And the Narnia series cannot really be compared to 
HP, as Lewis 
> was quite clearly writing an allegory of several Bible stories.  
However, 
> just because books aren't retellings of the Bible doesn't mean 
they're 
> demonic.
> 

One of the articles  
http://www.ev90481.dial.pipex.com/harry_potter_granger.htm  I came 
across is by John Granger, who I see is going to be giving a 
featured presentation at Nimbus 2003. He says that before Lewis was 
known as a Christian, "his published fiction was greeted with a 
yawn - and a confused yawn at that." But after /Mere Christianity/ 
and /The Screwtape Letters/, people saw his books for what they 
were. 

He goes on to point out allusions to Narnia, specifically Digory 
Kirke/Cedric Diggory and that "Objections to the magic in Harry 
Potter, however, mistake the edifying use of magic in literature for 
actual invocational sorcery condemned by Scripture which it clearly 
is not."
 
> 
> Wish I could help you, but I deal with the same thing.  My dad 
gets on to me  all the time about reading such "trash" and exposing 
my kids to demonic  evil--I let my six-year-old watch most of the 
first movie, but not the  second, because contrary to what he 
thinks, I'm very careful about what my kids see or hear. 

What I found really interesting was Granger's analysis of CoS: "The 
finish to Chamber of Secrets, as morality play, is the clearest 
Christian allegory of salvation history since Lewis's The Lion, the 
Witch, and the Wardrobe." (Pullman fans should just scroll down 
through the middle part :o))

 > Wish everybody was that understanding.  But my dad hasn't 
approved of  anything I've ever done anyway (think Snape meets 
Vernon) so I try to ignore  him.  Bit difficult, though, when they 
try to make you feel like a horrible  parent.
> 
> Tery LJ
> 

My problem is, my dad hasn't been horrible. Saddened, maybe, at some 
of my choices, but still loving. We used to have long discussion 
about all kinds of things when I was a teen (on my every-other-
weekend) and while we didn't agree on everything, we could talk. But 
his statement about feeling uneasy is one of those difficult-to-
address Christianese phrases. At this moment, I don't know if 
bringing up Granger's (Isn't his name a wonderful irony?) points 
would make him willing to discuss or drive a wedge in our 
relationship.

I'm just thinking this through as I "write it out" of me, sorry. But 
boy! What a sock in the gut that was!

Beth




From lmbolland at earthlink.net  Thu Jul 17 15:42:14 2003
From: lmbolland at earthlink.net (eric_and_lauri)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:42:14 -0000
Subject: Studying the HP series as literature
Message-ID: <bf6g4m+g095@eGroups.com>

Hello!
I was referred to this list by Sheryll the list elf over at the BIG 
group. :)  Does anyone know of a list/boards where the HP books are 
discussed as literature --- literary analysis, characterization, plot 
lines, etc?  (In other words not role play, fan fic, ships, etc.) :)

Lauri 




From rascals214 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 17 15:53:50 2003
From: rascals214 at yahoo.com (Holly)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:53:50 -0000
Subject: Christians and HP revisited
In-Reply-To: <bf6eal+heof@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf6gqe+eir3@eGroups.com>

I, also, go through this all the time.  My husband's ex-mother-in-
law is an obsessed Pentacostal Christian.  Yet, I find, that she 
contradicts herself all the time.  She "found" God after years of 
alcohol and drug abuse.  She will not let my husband's children 
watch, read, talk about Harry Potter (they live with their mother 
and their maternal grandparents) nor are they allowed to watch 
Pokemon, YuGiOh, etc.  They are encouraged to watch Lord of the 
Rings.  Now, I personally, like both HP and LOTR.  My own 7 year old 
son loves both but HP especially.  He has read the first 3 books and 
is getting into the 4th.  He likes HP more because it is easier for 
him to understand and get into.  LOTR to him is just a bunch of 
people fighting about a ring.  He doesn't understand it and at 7 he 
shouldn't.  He can understand friends and school and magic.  My step-
children are 5 and 7.  Their grandmother made them go see LOTR.  My 
husband and I felt that at 3 (at the time) the daughter was too 
young to see it because it's scary at times and too much for a 
child.  That's their grandmother though.  She's also the same 
Christian woman that makes her daughter use the children as pawns to 
get money and ditch the kids on anyone who will take them so that 
they don't have to be bothered just as long as the check comes for 
them once a month.  Nice, but I would rather my child believe in 
Magic and fantasy then using people as weapons.  That's just me

Holly




From lmbolland at earthlink.net  Thu Jul 17 15:56:13 2003
From: lmbolland at earthlink.net (eric_and_lauri)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:56:13 -0000
Subject: Christians and HP revisited
In-Reply-To: <bf5bbo+asdv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf6gut+70tn@eGroups.com>

Dear Beth,

As a Christian (and home-educating mum of 3 who are also great HP 
fans) I've experienced similar questions.  Connie Neal wrote two 
books - The Gospel According to Harry Potter and What's a Christian 
to do with Harry Potter.  (I think she's at connieneal.com)  Either 
book will arm you with the kind of answers your dad seems to be 
seeking.  They provided me with some good info/catch phrases for my 
querying MIL. Well - the kind of answers that silence the questions 
and make the uninformed questioner meekly say, "Oh."

If you're seeking a good, though-provoking look at the issue - 
Charmed Life by Francis Bridger is brilliant.  The author is an 
Anglican priest and he examines the books from an intellectual AND 
Christian perspective. (Yes! It's possible!)  It's a terrific book 
and gives a lot of insight into the series from an enjoyment 
perspective, as well. I LOVE, LOVE this book.  It's heavier reading 
than the Connie Neal books but really brilliant.

Last year I assigned my 13 yo dd a literary study of one of the HP 
books.  She chose GOF. (Brave girl! Clever girl!)  Among the studies 
she did on plot lines, characters, cause and effect, etc. was THEME.  
She chose three of the main themes JKR was telling us.  (A vital 
thing to establish when reading any book - What's the author's 
message?)  The three themes were Good vs. Evil, The Dangers of 
Gambling, and Slavery.  She analyzed what JKR says (during the course 
of the book) about these issues.  She then researched what the Bible 
says about the very same issues, and she compared the two.  Surprise, 
surprise.  The messages aligned.  This is the very thing I'm trying 
to teach my children - not to fear the very existence of a book (is 
it a werebook?) but to be able to analyze what the message of the 
book is and compare it with what their faith teaches and make 
decisions accordingly as independent thinkers.  


Lauri








From lmbolland at earthlink.net  Thu Jul 17 16:00:32 2003
From: lmbolland at earthlink.net (eric_and_lauri)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:00:32 -0000
Subject: Creating a wizard marketplace
In-Reply-To: <bf4ro5+8t58@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf6h70+iri9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Beth" <jillily3g at y...> wrote:
> Since we are establishing that so many members have some connection 
> to education, I'm hoping someone could point me in the right 
> direction. :o)


I've been on a list all summer called HogwartsSCS (hogwarts summer 
correspondence school). We've been putting on lessons via Owl Post 
for our children - my 9 yo's been attending all month. :)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HogwartsSCS

You won't believe the lesson plans in the archives. (There are two 
additional lists just to hold the files.)  I think you might have to 
send an intro to the owner - tell her you're a teacher, etc. for 
security. 

Lauri







From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 17 16:12:35 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:12:35 -0000
Subject: hurricanes
In-Reply-To: <bf4g8v+h4t0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf6htj+os67@eGroups.com>

Amanda reported that Claudette was:

> Just very wet. Stirs up all the many-legged life

Which you are going to describe for us, complete with pictures, 
right?  Pretty please?

Amy Z
with ribs still sore from the Blast-Ended Skrewt Spawn incident

P.S.  Where's Hurricane Jo?  Wasn't she supposed to arrive on June 
21?  Amanda, do you mind enduring 7 more hurricanes so we can get to 
J?




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 17 16:26:59 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:26:59 -0000
Subject: Christians and LOTR
In-Reply-To: <bf6gqe+eir3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf6ioj+4ihe@eGroups.com>

Holly wrote:

> My husband's ex-mother-in-
> law is an obsessed Pentacostal Christian.  Yet, I find, that she 
> contradicts herself all the time.  She "found" God after years of 
> alcohol and drug abuse.  She will not let my husband's children 
> watch, read, talk about Harry Potter (they live with their mother 
> and their maternal grandparents) nor are they allowed to watch 
> Pokemon, YuGiOh, etc.  They are encouraged to watch Lord of the 
> Rings.

Can someone articulate why some Christians approve of (or encourage, 
in Holly's ex-mother-in-law-in-law's case) LOTR who condemn HP?  Is 
it because Tolkien was a devout Catholic?  (Hm.  That might not 
actually cut much ice with all Protestant fundamentalists, some of 
whom put "Papists" just after goat-blood-drinking Satanists in the 
queue for Hell.) 

You can certainly see a Christian allegory in LOTR, as in most tales 
of redemptive sacrifice.  But it isn't at all simple.  Especially 
difficult is the fact that that slimesucker Gollum seems to be the 
sacrificial lamb, while Frodo the Good goes over to the demonic at 
the crucial moment.

But what I most wonder about the HP-hating Tolkien lovers is whether 
they have ever read the Ainulindale (the creation story in The 
Silmarillion--the part you skip to get to the good stuff about the 
Silmaril).  JKR's world is ours, created however you imagine ours was 
created, and you can even believe it was created 10,000 years ago if 
you choose.  Tolkien, on the other hand, had the hubris to posit a 
very different cosmology in which the timeline of our world 
completely fails to match up with either the geological or the 
creationist version.  And then there are all those gods.  No matter 
how much you may try to make the Creator equivalent to the Christian 
God, you have some rather un-Christian loose ends.  And wizards are 
angelic beings?  JRRT seems to be risking his immortal soul with that 
idea.

I see no problem with reading and learning from this fantasy and 
being a Christian; but I'm curious about those who shun the fantasy 
of HP and embrace that of LOTR.

Can anyone point us to an explanatory article, or explain it 
themselves?

Amy Z




From kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Jul 17 16:52:33 2003
From: kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk (Kathryn Cawte)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:52:33 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Christians and LOTR
References: <bf6ioj+4ihe@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3F16D451.00000A.60617@monica>

 

 Amy Z 
But what I most wonder about the HP-hating Tolkien lovers is whether 
they have ever read the Ainulindale (the creation story in The 
Silmarillion--the part you skip to get to the good stuff about the 
Silmaril). JKR's world is ours, created however you imagine ours was 
created, and you can even believe it was created 10,000 years ago if 
you choose. Tolkien, on the other hand, had the hubris to posit a 
very different cosmology in which the timeline of our world 
completely fails to match up with either the geological or the 
creationist version. And then there are all those gods. No matter 
how much you may try to make the Creator equivalent to the Christian 
God, you have some rather un-Christian loose ends. And wizards are 
angelic beings? JRRT seems to be risking his immortal soul with that 
idea.
 
Me -

Perhaps it's in part because while based in some ways on our world Middle
Earth is clearly not our Earth whereas JKR's world is ours. And really JRRT
was very clear that what he was creating was a mythology for England similar
to Scandinavian and Celtic mythology - so while it is bound to encompass
Christian themes (because the man was a Christian and that is bound to come
through) it is an entirely fantasy work in the way that the Narnian tales
are not (since they are allegorical). I dislike the way people lump them
together as if all fantasy literature is the same. It annoys me when people
flat out assume that all fantasy lit is the same - it's like assuming that
because they're all murder mysteries that Kay Scarpetta novels, Tommy and
Tuppence stories and uh Cadfael books are the same.

And seriously - there are good bits in the Silmarillion? So it really is
worth me trying to plough my way through it? Becuase I have it on audio tape
read by Martin Shaw and I've never got past the first side - it's the best
cure for insomnia I've ever found. I find it strange how I can devour The
Hobbit and LOTR but the Silmarillion strikes me as nothing more than a good
doorstop.

K



From terryljames at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 17 17:08:54 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:08:54 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Christians and HP revisited
Message-ID: <BAY8-F97P1UccWhWr5U0000ff38@hotmail.com>




>From: "Holly" <rascals214 at yahoo.com>


>I, also, go through this all the time.  My husband's ex-mother-in-
>law is an obsessed Pentacostal Christian.  Yet, I find, that she
>contradicts herself all the time.  She "found" God after years of
>alcohol and drug abuse.

This is not a contradiction: this is supposed to be what God does--takes 
people as they are, and redeems them.  Of course, your complaint seems to be 
that she is not really behaving in a Christian manner.


That's their grandmother though.  She's also the same
>Christian woman that makes her daughter use the children as pawns to
>get money and ditch the kids on anyone who will take them so that
>they don't have to be bothered just as long as the check comes for
>them once a month.  Nice, but I would rather my child believe in
>Magic and fantasy then using people as weapons.  That's just me
>

Never understood people who like LOTR but don't like HP.  However, I read an 
excellent Christian article comparing the two and coming to the conclusion 
that both are harmless, with proper parental input, but also listing why 
parents might want to discuss both and particularly HP with their kids.  
I'll try to find a link and post it--might help us all understand the 
difference in the way they are viewed.

Don't ever forget--Christians aren't supposed to be perfect, and those who 
pretend to be are mistaking the very idea underlying Christianity.  I don't 
want this to become a religious debate, so I'll try to leave it at that.

Terry LJ

_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 17 17:16:37 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:16:37 -0000
Subject: Christians and LOTR
In-Reply-To: <3F16D451.00000A.60617@monica>
Message-ID: <bf6lll+7f8n@eGroups.com>

Kathryn wrote:

> Perhaps it's in part because while based in some ways on our world 
Middle
> Earth is clearly not our Earth whereas JKR's world is ours. 

Well, maybe that misperception is why people who won't let their 
children learn the geological explanation of Earth's origins will 
embrace Tolkien's world.  But it's just not true.  Tolkien *is* 
presenting a history of Earth, our Earth; in his imagining, we are 
the descendants of the Men of Middle-Earth.

> And really JRRT
> was very clear that what he was creating was a mythology for 
England similar
> to Scandinavian and Celtic mythology - so while it is bound to 
encompass
> Christian themes (because the man was a Christian and that is bound 
to come
> through) it is an entirely fantasy work in the way that the Narnian 
tales
> are not (since they are allegorical). 

And a much better work for the same reason.  Allegories get boring, 
and to the extent that Narnia is an allegory it is on the flat side.  
Once you crack the code and get over the excitement of who-equals-
what, a pure allegory has little to offer, IMO.  Luckily, Narnia is 
also a great story, which is why so many of us enjoyed it long before 
the Christian symbolism dawned on us.

> It annoys me when people
> flat out assume that all fantasy lit is the same

Very true.

> And seriously - there are good bits in the Silmarillion? So it 
really is
> worth me trying to plough my way through it? Becuase I have it on 
audio tape
> read by Martin Shaw and I've never got past the first side - it's 
the best
> cure for insomnia I've ever found. 

LOL!  My dh and I have been reading it as bedtime reading, and for a 
while there we were getting through about a paragraph a night before 
I would drop off.

But it does pick up, honestly.  Just don't listen to Martin in the 
car in the meantime, or you may drive into a ditch.

Amy Z
whose religion practically *requires* her to read HP AND LOTR




From andie at knownet.net  Thu Jul 17 19:16:50 2003
From: andie at knownet.net (grindieloe)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:16:50 -0000
Subject: Tatoos
Message-ID: <bf6sn2+v5o6@eGroups.com>

I just watched some history of tatoos show on tv and got to 
wondering... do any HP fans have HP related tatoos??? :)  What are 
they?

grindieloe




From rvotaw at i-55.com  Thu Jul 17 19:34:34 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:34:34 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Christians and HP revisited
References: <BAY8-F97P1UccWhWr5U0000ff38@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002901c34c9a$762b9c70$f19ccdd1@l3820.tjdo.com>

I've been thinking on this topic a good bit.  First, what exactly defines an "obsessed Pentecostal Christian?"  I could easily be described as just that, and here I am, crazy about Harry just the same.  All the same, there are Christians who are completely against anything that involves the words "witch" or anything relating to witchcraft.  That said, they are few and far between.  Most (not all, but most) Christians still allow (and frequently encourage) their children to watch/read/etc all fairy tales involving witches and witchcraft.  If a Christian is going to use the Biblical scriptures that speak out against witchcraft, then they shouldn't be watching or reading *anything* relating to witchcraft.  Otherwise their reasoning is flawed.

Now, the first line of defense for Harry Potter (as I've used in the past) is to point out to the people who allow their children to watch Disney fairy tales, that they all involve witchcraft in one way, shape, or form.  Cinderella has the Fairy Godmother (glorified witch), Sword in the Stone has Merlin (a wizard, obviously), Beauty & the Beast had a beautiful enchantress (witch), and the list goes on. 

Next line of defense (if they buy that one) is to bring up LOTR.  If they like it, no *reason* not to like HP.  Of course, some people don't need a "reason."  Some people say LOTR has Christian symbolism.  Maybe, though if I'm not mistaken, Tolkien denied it.  I can't find much, but I'm rather dense at that sort of thing.  Still, it blows my mind that there are people (and there are) who watch, and allow their children to watch LOTR but not HP.  Don't get me wrong, I like both.  But it's not hard to see which is more gruesome, violent, and so on.  Not to mention they both have witchcraft.  

Third line of defense is to point out Christian symbolisms in HP.  I never saw any (except Lily's sacrifice) until I read Connie Neal's "The Gospel According to Harry Potter."  She begins by explaining that you generally will find in anything what you're determined to find.  So sure, perhaps members of the occult can find what they're looking for, but as Christians, we shouldn't look for that.  She then proceeds to point out (with both HP book references and Bible references) about 50 different instances of Christian symbolism.  I'm NOT saying JKR has intended to draw from the Bible.  However, some of them did make my jaw drop.  Okay, so my jaw drops easily. :)  But this line of reasoning has won over at least one person who was raised very "anti witchcraft" and thus "anti Potter" in recent times, until she saw the light.

Now, the unfortunate thing about Connie Neal's book is that unless you've already read HP it's hard to keep up.  I'm currently working on a more abbreviated list of HP Christian symbolisms for just such a purpose.  Starting on the ones pointed out in Neal's book, and continuing with a few of my own.

Richelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From tomatogrower88 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 17 21:29:02 2003
From: tomatogrower88 at yahoo.com (tomatogrower88)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:29:02 -0000
Subject: Creating a wizard marketplace
In-Reply-To: <bf4ro5+8t58@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf74eu+glio@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Beth" <jillily3g at y...> wrote:
> Since we are establishing that so many members have some connection 
> to education, I'm hoping someone could point me in the right 
> direction. :o)
> 
> I will soon (next month!) be teaching a class on Harry Potter at 
> a "kids on campus" program. I remember doing an activity in junior 
> high in which we visited other students' "businesses" and bought 
> goods or services from them. I thought it would be fun for my 
> students to create a wizarding world business and do this activity, 
> but I'd like some guidance as to how to set it up logistically. I 
> can't seem to come up with the right keywords for a search engine. 
> Can anyone direct me to a website with a lesson plan like this?
> 
> Thanks!
> Beth


Hi, 

A few months ago at in inservice I learned about a great site for 
lesson plans. I don't know if it would have exactly what you are 
looking for but I think you might find some plans that would be close. 
The address is www.marcopolo-education.org go to the Econ-ed link. I 
hope this helps you. 

Myrth




From joym999 at aol.com  Thu Jul 17 21:38:30 2003
From: joym999 at aol.com (joywitch_m_curmudgeon)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:38:30 -0000
Subject: Tatoos
In-Reply-To: <bf6sn2+v5o6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf750m+fd0l@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "grindieloe" <andie at k...> 
wrote:
> I just watched some history of tatoos show on tv and got to 
> wondering... do any HP fans have HP related tatoos??? :)  What are 
> they?


There's been a rumor floating around HPfGU for years that Amy Z has a 
tatoo of a werewolf over her heart, but I don't know if it's true.

--Joywitch, ducking




From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Thu Jul 17 21:41:31 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:41:31 -0000
Subject: Tatoos
In-Reply-To: <bf6sn2+v5o6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf756b+jhfa@eGroups.com>

Grindieloe wrote:

>do any HP fans have HP related tatoos??? :)  What are 
> they?

Well, I have a tattoo of a Big Paddle on my backside.  

Or maybe that's just an impression of a Big Paddle.  ;-)

Cindy -- who has toyed with the idea but thinks it would be a dead 
give-away of a mid-life crisis




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu Jul 17 21:57:39 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:57:39 -0000
Subject: HP, LOTR, Lewis, etc.
Message-ID: <bf764j+nl2v@eGroups.com>

Just a few musings.

I think that there are some significant differences between HP and 
the Narnia and Middle Earth books, which make it much harder for 
them to win over the initially suspicious.

The first is the theological backdrop of the stories.  Christian 
opinion-formers will typically not be very impressed with minor 
elements of Christian symbolism or superficial religious trappings.  
Thus, some of the HP things quoted, such as holly wood or the 
phoenix will net a 'big deal, so what' kind of mental response.  
They will be looking for the story to be pervaded by a Christian 
world view  (of course, there is more than one such, but so far 
there has been little sectarian squabbling over HP).  The way 
people's character develops, the ways that good triumphs over evil 
(or fails to triumph), whether it is assumed there is something 
beyond immediate human experience, what is the meaning of events, 
and so on, all give an ideologically or doctrinally-minded Christian 
a warm feeling, or not, when they read a book.

Now, with Lewis, that is *so* pervasive it's in your face.  In fact, 
apart from overall plot framework items, I don't really believe 
Lewis deliberately wrote allegories.  He was so convinced that the 
world works in a Christian way that he couldn't write anything 
else.  *Of course* there is another, nore real world of which this 
is only a copy (The Last Battle), everybody knows that, it's just 
that 90% of modern man has suppressed that instinctive God-given 
consciousness.  And so on.

With Tolkien, it's less evident, but it's still there.  In fact 
(pace Amy), I think the Ainulindale, while at one level giving a 
semi-gnostic account of creation (the world is made by angels doing 
God's bidding - in full gnosticism IIRC the world is a creation of 
the devil to trap human spirits in flesh), at another it IMO betrays 
the essentially Christian influence on Tolkien's thought by 
ultimately ascribing everything, good and evil, back to a single 
creator who reserves the sovereign right to intervene directly 
(think of the Akallabeth, as well as the incident with the tree and 
Aragorn at the end of LOTR, and Gandalf's comments about Frodo being 
*meant* to have the ring).  His tendency to introduce successive 
intermediaries between God and man - the Valar, the Istari, even the 
Eldar in Eressea - while very alien to the Christianity of those who 
most criticise HP, is still a feature of a lot of Christian thinking.

So Christians can 'feel at home' when reading these works.

When it comes to HP, though ironically there is a lot about the 
framework that from a Christian POV compares favourably with most 
modern fantasy (eg Andre Norton's Witch World series, or Terry 
Pratchett), I think those comfort factors *are* less evident.

To some extent we can't know until book 7 is over - e.g. will evil 
either destroy itself from within, or shrivel in the light of true 
goodness and love (both outcomes congenial IMO to Christians), or 
will it need to be overcome by force of violence (less congenial 
IMO)?

However, the cultural mileu of HP is much more that of today's 
Godless UK - England, I should say.  There is no hint of a creator 
or guiding hand in history, e.g. that Harry was 'meant' to get the 
Philosopher's Stone - quite the reverse, in fact, with choice alone 
being the crucial element in events.  E.g Dumbledore's explanation 
to Harry that if Voldemort is resisted in every generation but not 
destroyed that would be good enough will not stack up easily against 
the Christian's stories of evil finally and necessarily being 
destroyed.  It smacks of a secular outlook, IMO, when seen from a 
theistic POV.

There are other aspects that may grate on the sensitive Christian, 
IMO.  Voldemort's 'resurrection' in GOF, if it occurred in a Lewis 
book, would be clearly designated as an imitation designed to 
deceive, or a copy designed to supplant, and all the more evil for 
that.  In HP, it is left hanging: is it an allegory of the 
antichrist, a critique of sects of the Jonestown type, or a 
commentary on the absolutist demands of Jesus himself?  Or is it 
just chance that it has so many elements reminiscent of Christian 
and religious belief?

I won't labour this point further now - I am hoping at a less 
frenetic moment on the main list to enlarge on how I think JKR isn't 
really in the tradition of the Inklings in response to Penny.

None of this, of course, is reason for a Christian not to read the 
books, but IMO it does mean that Christian opinion-formers will be 
less motivated to defend them when they are attacked by the ignorant 
or superstitious.  They have other fish to fry.  This then 
eventually comes out in simplified form as the argument that 'Lewis 
and Tolkien were Christians so what they wrote was OK'.  That JKR 
attends church then comes in too late in the argument, because the 
crucial step, that her thinking should be *theologically* (not just 
morally) informed, is missing.

In fact, I think I have a challenge for HPFGU members here: what is 
the theology of HP?  I think that question is quite hard to answer, 
and, as I say, I think some answers *are* semi-promised now (that 
veil?  that 'room of love'?).

I think it possible that the series as a whole will come out more 
theological than it seems, because of her habit of springing 
surprises.

Finally, I wonder if there are problems particularly for American 
Christians.  The values of Britain and America - particularly Bible 
Belt America - are more divergent than they were 50 years ago, and 
IMO JKR has done a very good job of portraying the attitudes of 
today's British, even within a distinctly old-fashioned setting.  
Recent debates here about reading aloud to children when swearwords 
appear are an illustration of this point IMO.  Again, this has 
nothing to do with witchcraft, but it is another obstacle to those 
who are looking for reasons to feel safe reading the books, or need 
persuading to convince their fellows that they are OK.

So, to summarise, many Christians feel that whether an author is 
truly like-minded is something that shines through their writing, 
and I think they will find that feeling hard to get from HP.  If 
they then also see all of life as a cosmic struggle ('he who is not 
for me is against me' - Dubya wasn't the first to say this), they 
may well be hostile to HP.  Fixing on magic is an easy way to 
articulate this hostility.  The extreme popularity of HP then makes 
the hostility (which in fact is likely to be held against a wide 
array of writing) uniquely visible, and turns the series into a 
cause celebre.

David




From gallo at wpaccs.com  Thu Jul 17 22:47:35 2003
From: gallo at wpaccs.com (Amy)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:47:35 -0000
Subject: Christians and HP Revisited
Message-ID: <bf7927+2lct@eGroups.com>


> 
> I am SO glad someone brought this up!  We are Catholic 
homeschoolers 
> and belong to a local homeschool group - very informal, just a few 
of 
> us moms getting together to talk and such.  Anyway, at our last 
> meeting the discussion turned into "Can you believe there are 
> actually parents out there who let their kids watch/read Harry 
> Potter?!"  I couldn't keep my mouth shut on that one!  I told them 
we 
> were huge fans of HP books/movies and, oh brother, that did it!
> 
> Some of the moms said things like "Oh, sorry, we didn't mean to 
> offend you.  It's your choice what to read or not to read."  BUT, 
one 
> of the moms just wouldn't hear of it.  I attempted to tell her of 
> the "messages" of the books, good vs. evil, sacrifice for your 
> friends, love, family, anti-prejudice, etc., etc., and was only 
told 
> in return that I can justify anything evil to make it look good, 
> including pornography !!!!??  Sorry, but I don't think reading HP 
> equates to that!  I got a lecture, if you will, about how reading 
> such things is a waste of time and I should be reading my children 
> about the saints, the Bible, etc.  Okay, I can't argue with that, 
> because I love the saints and the Bible - and yes, I love the Lord -
 
> but HP is just so FUN!  And that part I suppose they don't 
> understand.  Sad, isn't it?
> 
> Oh, and I also mentioned that the Vatican spokesman sanctioned the 
HP 
> books as OK, and was told in return that they don't acknowledge 
that 
> report.  Fine.  BE that way, then. Ugh.
> 
> They also have no problem with LOTR and Narnia, etc.  Even as I 
write 
> this, I can feel my blood pressure going up because it drives me 
> crazy!  This has literally been bugging me for a month! 
> 
> I guess the thing that makes me the most upset is the connotation 
> that by having HP in my home that I am not a true Christian and 
will 
> lead my children down demonic paths to destruction!  No fair.  Only 
> God knows the heart.  I would never allow anything in my home to 
> jeopardize my faith or my children's, which I hold dear.  
> 
> Whew - glad I got that off my chest.  It's good to know I'm not the 
> only one dealing with such things!  Long live Harry!
> 
>  - Amy....in mourning for her dear dead (ahem) sexy Sirius...







From editor at texas.net  Thu Jul 17 23:29:54 2003
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:29:54 -0000
Subject: Tatoos
In-Reply-To: <bf750m+fd0l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf7bhi+73pj@eGroups.com>

Joywitch:

> There's been a rumor floating around HPfGU for years that Amy Z has 
a 
> tatoo of a werewolf over her heart, but I don't know if it's true.

That's not where *I* heard it was.

~Amanda





From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 18 00:59:19 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:59:19 -0000
Subject: Christians and HP revisited
In-Reply-To: <002901c34c9a$762b9c70$f19ccdd1@l3820.tjdo.com>
Message-ID: <bf7gp7+jj95@eGroups.com>

Richelle the obsessed Pentecostal Christian (and all power to her) 
wrote:

>If a Christian is going to use the Biblical scriptures that speak 
>out against witchcraft, then they shouldn't be watching or reading 
>*anything* relating to witchcraft.  Otherwise their reasoning is 
>flawed.

Even fundamentalists differ in their reading of Scripture.  The fact 
that one should not practice witchcraft (if that is even what the 
Bible says--there's considerable debate on that point) doesn't mean 
that one can't enjoy a work of fiction about magical people.

I suppose that's connected to a line of argument you didn't mention, 
one I've seen quite a bit:  that HP *isn't* about the kind of 
witchcraft the Bible is concerned about.  The word may be the same 
(by dint of the Bible translator's choice, of course) but in fact the 
phenomena are different.

And then there are Christians who take some Biblical passages as 
authoritative, and others as not.  I think there is great merit to 
that approach, personally; one may judge some laws to be eternal and 
others particular to the culture and time in which they were given 
without being a hypocrite.  Furthermore, I have never met a 
Christian, however devout, who observed the commandments to keep 
kosher, observe the Sabbath as laid out in the Bible, or circumcised 
himself and his sons, just as I have never met a Jew, however devout, 
who observed the sacrifices.  Christians believe that kashrut and 
Shabbat-observance and circumcision have been pre-empted by New 
Testament revelation (the logic with the latter, at least, being that 
Paul is more authoritative than the author of Leviticus, I guess) and 
Jews believe that the sacrifices should not be carried out until the 
Temple is rebuilt, if ever.

Amy Z
who has no sermons to write 'til September 7 and is evidently missing 
them




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 18 01:03:27 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 01:03:27 -0000
Subject: Tatoos
In-Reply-To: <bf7bhi+73pj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf7h0v+ms7s@eGroups.com>

Joywitch wrote:
 
> > There's been a rumor floating around HPfGU for years that Amy Z 
has 
> a 
> > tatoo of a werewolf over her heart, but I don't know if it's true.

Amanda wrote:

> That's not where *I* heard it was.

<smiles suggestively>

I'll never tell.

The Lupinesque One




From anneu53714 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 18 01:05:13 2003
From: anneu53714 at yahoo.com (Anne)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 01:05:13 -0000
Subject: Christians and LOTR
In-Reply-To: <bf6lll+7f8n@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf7h49+v3c8@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Amy Z" <lupinesque at y...> 
wrote:
> > > And seriously - there are good bits in the Silmarillion? So it 
> really is
> > worth me trying to plough my way through it? Becuase I have it on 
> audio tape
> > read by Martin Shaw and I've never got past the first side - it's 
> the best
> > cure for insomnia I've ever found. 
> 
> LOL!  My dh and I have been reading it as bedtime reading, and for 
a 
> while there we were getting through about a paragraph a night 
before 
> I would drop off.
> 
> But it does pick up, honestly.  Just don't listen to Martin in the 
> car in the meantime, or you may drive into a ditch.
> 
> Amy Z
> whose religion practically *requires* her to read HP AND LOTR

Well, Amy, I guess you've convinced me that *our* religion pretty 
much requires both of us to read both HP and LOTR (actually for our 
congregation's upcoming fall retreat, I suggested an HP role-playing 
game as one of the fun intergenerational activities :-) Seriously 
though, I never managed to finish the Silmarillion, precisely because 
of the doorstop tenor of the writing. I do recall that Tolkien's 
family found the manuscript --unfinished-- after his death, and based 
on the size of it, and the density (and I don't mean weight), it 
could have stood some serious editing. But, I mean, who can edit 
Tolkien, eh? I don't think I got more than 1/4 through it... I spent 
too many nights falling asleep over it, I finally gave up. Maybe when 
I've stopped re-reading OotP I can try the Silmarillion again. I 
think it's still taking up half a shelf in my bookshelves.

Anne U
(who seriously disliked the lack of Frodo and Aragorn in that book...)





From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 18 01:11:31 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 01:11:31 -0000
Subject: An HP theology
In-Reply-To: <bf764j+nl2v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf7hg3+p2an@eGroups.com>

David wrote:

<all sorts of good stuff that I'm snipping out for now because I'm 
theology'd out>

> In fact, I think I have a challenge for HPFGU members here: what is 
> the theology of HP?  

At the risk of feeding the HP is a Godless Humanist Conspiracy fires, 
I could probably point to twenty sermons by humanist and/or atheists 
about how HP illustrates their beliefs.  

I'm familiar enough with one to remember that it was quite 
theological.  Ah yes, the immortal line:  "I don't think you can have 
a sound theology without including the Peeves factor."  The 
introductory blurb refers to Harry as a "hero of faith."  It is pure 
coincidence that the writer is one of my preaching teachers:

http://www.uuwayland.org/Sermons/000123.htm

Amy Z




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 18 02:19:57 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:19:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Happy Birthday, Elvenwren!
Message-ID: <20030718021957.30435.qmail@web41111.mail.yahoo.com>

*the birthday elf bounces in balancings boxes of
decorations, trays of food and a huge cake*

Anyone out there? I need some help with streamers and
balloons, if you have a minute.

Today's birthday honouree is Elvenwren. Birthday owls
can be sent care of this list or directly to:
elvenwren at yahoo.com

I hope your day has been fun and magical.

Happy Birthday, Elvenwren!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf

=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Jul 18 02:24:49 2003
From: kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk (Kathryn Cawte)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 03:24:49 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time)
Subject: Voldemort's new plan to take over the world (somehow)
Message-ID: <3F175A71.000019.34083@monica>

 I am on a lot of mailinglists and such and consequently my email address is
fairly widely known by spammers. But I just got the most *interesting* piece
of junk mail. It was one of those adverts for generic viagra that pop up so
often - but it was from tommyriddle at hotmail.com . Is this some new (and
confusing) plan to take over the world by ensuring that we muggles are
otherwise occupied?

K



From jmmears at comcast.net  Fri Jul 18 02:32:23 2003
From: jmmears at comcast.net (serenadust)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:32:23 -0000
Subject: Christians and HP Revisited
In-Reply-To: <bf7927+2lct@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf7m7n+fu84@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Amy" <gallo at w...> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I am SO glad someone brought this up!  We are Catholic 
> homeschoolers 
> > and belong to a local homeschool group - very informal, just a 
few 
> of 
> > us moms getting together to talk and such.  Anyway, at our last 
> > meeting the discussion turned into "Can you believe there are 
> > actually parents out there who let their kids watch/read Harry 
> > Potter?!"  I couldn't keep my mouth shut on that one!  I told 
them 
> we 
> > were huge fans of HP books/movies and, oh brother, that did it!
> > 
> > Some of the moms said things like "Oh, sorry, we didn't mean to 
> > offend you.  It's your choice what to read or not to read."  
BUT, 
> one 
> > of the moms just wouldn't hear of it.  I attempted to tell her 
of 
> > the "messages" of the books, good vs. evil, sacrifice for your 
> > friends, love, family, anti-prejudice, etc., etc., and was only 
> told 
> > in return that I can justify anything evil to make it look good, 
> > including pornography !!!!??  Sorry, but I don't think reading 
HP 
> > equates to that!  I got a lecture, if you will, about how 
reading 
> > such things is a waste of time and I should be reading my 
children 
> > about the saints, the Bible, etc.  Okay, I can't argue with 
that, 
> > because I love the saints and the Bible - and yes, I love the 
Lord -
>  
> > but HP is just so FUN!  And that part I suppose they don't 
> > understand.  Sad, isn't it?
> > 
> > Oh, and I also mentioned that the Vatican spokesman sanctioned 
the 
> HP 
> > books as OK, and was told in return that they don't acknowledge 
> that 
> > report.  Fine.  BE that way, then. Ugh.
> > 
> > They also have no problem with LOTR and Narnia, etc.  Even as I 
> write 
> > this, I can feel my blood pressure going up because it drives me 
> > crazy!  This has literally been bugging me for a month! 
> > 
> > I guess the thing that makes me the most upset is the 
connotation 
> > that by having HP in my home that I am not a true Christian and 
> will 
> > lead my children down demonic paths to destruction!  No fair.  
Only 
> > God knows the heart.  I would never allow anything in my home to 
> > jeopardize my faith or my children's, which I hold dear.  
> > 
> > Whew - glad I got that off my chest.  It's good to know I'm not 
the 
> > only one dealing with such things!  Long live Harry!


Oh Amy, I'm so sorry to hear about this sort of thing going on.  You 
don't mention where you live, but these women obviously are 
practicing outside the mainstream of Catholicism.  I'm also RC and 
have 2 children in Catholic schools, one in elementary/middle, and 
one in high school. What's more, these aren't your regular, garden-
variety Catholic schools; they're both founded and run by nuns (a 
rare occurance, these days). Both kids had teachers read HP books to 
their classes and one wonderful first grade teacher even organized a 
Harry Potter day for all the first and second graders, with 
costumes, wands, broomsticks, and prizes. I wish I had a picture of 
the habit-wearing nun with a lightning-bolt scar on her forehead.  
Priceless!   There was not one single parental complaint, and 
believe me the parents at this school are not shy about expressing 
their opinions (given the hefty tuition)!
In addition, as a library volunteer, I've seen loads of kids 
checking out the HP books and have even donated some to help shorten 
the waiting period for them.

My only suggestion for you is to discuss this with someone in the 
education department of your diocesse, or a well-educated priest.  I 
doubt seriously that these women's attitudes will be endorsed.  It 
never ceases to amaze me how the sanctimonious, holier-than-thou 
types are so eager to sit in judgement of others when they 
themselves are out of step with modern Catholic thinking.

It's not as though we need any more bad PR, eh?

Jo Serenadust, fuming 




From terryljames at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 18 03:28:10 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:28:10 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Christians and LOTR
Message-ID: <BAY8-F89xY5ksqQFxnP000151ce@hotmail.com>




>From: "Amy Z" <lupinesque at yahoo.com>
>>
>Can someone articulate why some Christians approve of (or encourage,
>in Holly's ex-mother-in-law-in-law's case) LOTR who condemn HP?  Is
>it because Tolkien was a devout Catholic?

>Can anyone point us to an explanatory article, or explain it
>themselves?
>
>Amy Z
>

Very sorry--I can't find that article I referenced earlier.  Will keep 
looking, though, because I found it very interesting.  The writer gave I 
think seven differences in writing style and themes between LOTR and HP 
which led him to conclude, as I said earlier, that both are harmless for 
appropriate age kids, but slightly more parental guidance might be necessary 
for HP.

One of his points was that in LOTR, magic is not something common and 
ordinary, as it is in HP.  In HP, it is not only OK, it is expected and 
celebrated, and in fact non-magic people are looked down upon.  The "proper" 
attitude is "Oh, we shouldn't feel superior to the Muggles, but we should 
feel sorry for them."

In LOTR only the wizards and Tom Bombadil do what we would call magic, and 
Tom Bombadil is clearly not human.  He doesn't seem to have a Biblical 
parallel, either--I've never figured out exactly what his function is.  But 
Gandalf and Saruman are "wizards"--really Istari, sort of guardian angels.  
They are not human, either, and the powers they have are not "magic powers", 
but abilities that Eru created them with.  The hobbits and humans are even 
sometimes uneasy about the "magic" that Gandalf does.

The point being that (according to this author) Tolkien clearly intended to 
convey that magic is something humans should not have anything to do with 
personally, because it was not intended for us.  While HP clearly intends to 
convey (again, according to this author) that magic is definitely for 
humans, and if you don't have it then you're somehow defective.

Another one of his points was that in HP, Harry does all kinds of stuff he 
shouldn't--lies, runs around after hours, goes where he shouldn't--and never 
really gets in trouble for it.  Oh, he gets points taken away, but then DD 
gives them all back at the end of the year and everything's OK.  There is no 
lasting harm to Harry as a result of his disobedience and thoughtless 
actions.  (Obviously this article was written before OOP.)  The author is 
concerned that this might lead kids to think that it's OK to break rules if 
you have a "good reason".

Whereas in LOTR, everybody does the right thing all the time, and when they 
don't, bad things happen to them.  Actions have very clear-cut consequences.

IMO a lot of people are nervous about HP because it's not over yet.  You 
don't really know where it's going or how it will end, and without a 
resolution people are hesitant to say "well, this is what she really meant." 
  LOTR and Narnia are through, and you can look at the works as a whole.

Possibly when Book 7 is out, a lot of this criticism will fade out.  Maybe.

And wizards are
>angelic beings?  JRRT seems to be risking his immortal soul with that
>idea.

Oh, I dunno..."Wizard" = "wise man"--the wise men who travelled to see Jesus 
are sometimes translated as "magicians" or "mages"--same root word, isn't 
it?  And doesn't "mage" mean "teacher" or "authority figure" as in 
"magistrate"?  If you saw an angelic being who clearly had great knowledge, 
mightn't you call him a wise man, or in vernacular, a wizard?


And, speaking of churches and re the spam someone got from tommyriddle, I 
actually go to church with Tom Riddle.  Yes, one of my good friends started 
dating this guy she just always called Tommy, and he started coming to 
church with her, and eventually they wound up engaged.  We just called him 
by his first name and when I got the wedding invitation I couldn't believe 
it.  "His name is Tom Riddle?  You're joking!"  But they are happily married 
now...she evidently did not believe me when I warned her that she was 
marrying the incarnation of evil...she claimed that that was not possible, 
as she'd just divorced the incarnation of evil. :)

Terry LJ (Christian, Pentecostal, obsessed, enjoying non-flaming religious 
HP discussion and Dave's analysis)

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus




From fluxed at earthlink.net  Fri Jul 18 05:54:00 2003
From: fluxed at earthlink.net (A. Vulgarweed)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:54:00 -0500
Subject: JKR, JRRT, & JC
In-Reply-To: <1058490694.2022.82238.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <l03130303bb3d2eb3b9a9@[67.73.136.134]>

I believe, if I have my story straight, that C.S. Lewis was once an
atheist, but his close friend (and mutually-beta-reading writerly buddy)
J.R.R. Tolkien was a major influence in Lewis's becoming a Christian. But
Tolkien famously despised allegory (even if he couldn't completely avoid it
- who can?): he wrote that applicability was the proper thing to strive
for, not allegory - because allegory is all about the writer imposing his
will on the reader, applicability is about the reader taking what s/he
needs from the writer. Tolkien had an extremely sophisticated and nuanced
ongoing moral debate with himself on what he called "sub-creation" -
spelled out fairly explicitly in his essay "On Fairy-Stories"; it's also
very, um, applicable to his fiction.

I would say that both Tolkien and JKR are extremely _applicable_ to our
modern world, and that they both indirectly espouse values that it's hard
to imagine most Christians (or people of most other faiths for that matter)
disagreeing with. But I've found in a certain particularly American mindset
a tendency to want to read _all_ literature, especially children's
literature, as allegory: that it should always have a "moral", that it
should "teach" values. Frankly, I find the moral lessons MORE
straightforward and obvious in Rowling than in Tolkien, at least up til
very recently. But readers vary, obviously.....and of course, there's that
running theme about so many people who object to the HP books not actually
having read them.

Holly:
 Their grandmother made them go see LOTR.  My
>husband and I felt that at 3 (at the time) the daughter was too
>young to see it because it's scary at times and too much for a
>child.


THREE? I don't know who I feel worse for, the child or the other people in
the theater.
(Was frightened to death by super-cheesy animated versions at age 7. Loved
it, but still.)

Amy Z:
>You can certainly see a Christian allegory in LOTR, as in most tales
>of redemptive sacrifice.  But it isn't at all simple.  Especially
>difficult is the fact that that slimesucker Gollum seems to be the
>sacrificial lamb, while Frodo the Good goes over to the demonic at
>the crucial moment.

I'm amazed more people haven't brought this moment up. Fear of spoilers for
the movie-goers? Because that is THE defining moment of LOTR for me, the
point at which all illusion of comforting allegory is out the window and
the reader is slapped in the face with the potential for corruption that we
ALL have, and hard! It's crushing, and for those expecting a
straightforward fantasy-epic denouement, it is deeply shocking. For all the
Orc-slaughter that's been cheered so much throughout, the world is saved
ONLY because, waayyyyy back in the story, Frodo had been persuaded (against
his impulses) to show mercy to a despicable/pathetic treacherous little
creature who almost got them killed for it. That is the moment of Tolkien's
treacherous genius as well.

Amy Z :
>But what I most wonder about the HP-hating Tolkien lovers is whether
>they have ever read the Ainulindale (the creation story in The
>Silmarillion--the part you skip to get to the good stuff about the
>Silmaril).  JKR's world is ours, created however you imagine ours was
>created, and you can even believe it was created 10,000 years ago if
>you choose.  Tolkien, on the other hand, had the hubris to posit a
>very different cosmology in which the timeline of our world
>completely fails to match up with either the geological or the
>creationist version.  And then there are all those gods.  No matter
>how much you may try to make the Creator equivalent to the Christian
>God, you have some rather un-Christian loose ends.  And wizards are
>angelic beings?  JRRT seems to be risking his immortal soul with that
>idea.

I have often wondered about this too. He's distilling a lot of different
creation myths into one, and I suppose it's not too surprising he comes up
with a pagan-flavored result. Although I suppose the Valar are more
properly archangels or demigods rather than gods proper, they certainly do
have a demiurge function and he does comment later on that Men have trouble
telling the difference.

(BTW - I love the Silmarillion, and the Ainulindale is my favorite part.
Just so we have all our cards on the table here. :) )

Tolkien claimed not to like Milton, but the story of Melkor/Morgoth does
nothing to convince me of that.

Here's a difference: Tolkien actually has a Satan analogue in his universe
(or more: Sauron and Saruman are fallen angels too, though neither as
powerful as Morgoth). JKR doesn't. Voldemort is a human being who gave up
his humanity for power and immortality -- not on the same cosmic scale at
all. (In Tolkien's world he'd be, _at best_ something like a Nazgul.) For
all the magic in JKR's world, there's very little that's actually
*supernatural*: magic is treated as just another force of nature, that
obeys its own laws like gravity. We see ghosts, but no gods or angels or
demons - just a whole other _ecological system_ the Muggles don't know
about. Why do those with an eye to avoiding on basis of faith see this as
_more_ threatening, rather than less? Is it creeping secular-humanism? That
would seem to directly contradict avoiding them on basis of magic,
something secular humanists notoriously don't believe in.

K:
>Perhaps it's in part because while based in some ways on our world Middle
>Earth is clearly not our Earth whereas JKR's world is ours.

I think this has been addressed before but yes, Tolkien definitely meant
his stories to be a fictional mythology of _our_ world. Look at the maps of
M-E: it's clearly Europe with many thousands of years of continental drift
and coastal shift factored in. (He once told a fan--in a letter, I think--
that Mordor would be mostly where the Mediterranean is now; he thought Mt.
Doom might be Mt. Etna.) One of the Elven names for sunken Numenor was
Atalante: dead tip-off (And NO, Valinor is NOT America. Straight road,
people, straight road! :D )

It's many, many thousands of years removed, however, which means that it is
only in some sense "our" world.

AV





From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri Jul 18 08:37:21 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:37:21 -0000
Subject: Authoruty (was Christians and HP revisited)
In-Reply-To: <bf7gp7+jj95@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf8bk1+77ad@eGroups.com>

Amy Z wrote:

> Christians believe that kashrut and 
> Shabbat-observance and circumcision have been pre-empted by New 
> Testament revelation (the logic with the latter, at least, being 
that 
> Paul is more authoritative than the author of Leviticus, I guess) 

FWIW (while Christians may differ among themselves) IMO the classic 
logic is that Jesus *is* the same authority that wrote Leviticus; 
that Paul was making explicit what was implicit in Jesus (or even 
applying what was explicit); that what Jesus did was not revocation 
but revelation.

Chapter and verse available on request - but don't trust me as I 
don't believe it myself

David




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 18 12:05:15 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:05:15 -0000
Subject: JKR, JRRT, & JC
In-Reply-To: <l03130303bb3d2eb3b9a9@[67.73.136.134]>
Message-ID: <bf8npr+icg0@eGroups.com>

David wrote:

I think the Ainulindale, while at one level giving a 
> semi-gnostic account of creation (the world is made by angels doing 
> God's bidding - in full gnosticism IIRC the world is a creation of 
> the devil to trap human spirits in flesh), at another it IMO 
betrays 
> the essentially Christian influence on Tolkien's thought by 
> ultimately ascribing everything, good and evil, back to a single 
> creator who reserves the sovereign right to intervene directly 

<snip>

> So Christians can 'feel at home' when reading these works.

Yes, this is very true.  I'm just surprised that people who don't let 
their children trick-or-treat because Halloween has Pagan roots don't 
get up in arms about a cosmology that has such pagan overtones.  
Maybe they aren't the same people.

David wrote:

> There is no hint of a creator 
> or guiding hand in history, e.g. that Harry was 'meant' to get the 
> Philosopher's Stone - quite the reverse, in fact, with choice alone 
> being the crucial element in events.  E.g Dumbledore's explanation 
> to Harry that if Voldemort is resisted in every generation but not 
> destroyed that would be good enough will not stack up easily 
against 
> the Christian's stories of evil finally and necessarily being 
> destroyed.  It smacks of a secular outlook, IMO, when seen from a 
> theistic POV.

I agree, except to nitpick the word "secular."  As someone who 
believes the secular and sacred are all but impossible to pick apart, 
or even the same thing (depends what day you catch me on), I would 
say that this belief of Dumbledore's is highly religious.

David wrote:

> Finally, I wonder if there are problems particularly for American 
> Christians.  

Yes, I think there are, because of the particular strain of 
Christianity that has been thriving here the past few decades.  More 
on that in a bit.

David again:

> ('he who is not 
> for me is against me' - Dubya wasn't the first to say this), 

<stunned look>  He wasn't?

I wrote:

> > Christians believe that kashrut and 
> > Shabbat-observance and circumcision have been pre-empted by New 
> > Testament revelation (the logic with the latter, at least, being 
> that 
> > Paul is more authoritative than the author of Leviticus, I guess) 

David wrote:
 
> FWIW (while Christians may differ among themselves) IMO the classic 
> logic is that Jesus *is* the same authority that wrote Leviticus; 
> that Paul was making explicit what was implicit in Jesus (or even 
> applying what was explicit); that what Jesus did was not revocation 
> but revelation.

Growing up Jewish, I always thought it was a bit convenient that all 
of these new revelations meant that Christians could stay intact, go 
shopping on Saturday, and eat shrimp scampi.  ;-)

Seriously, yes, I realize that the idea is that they're the same 
authority.  <steers delicately away from one of her favorite 
subjects, authorship of the Bible, as it attracts flames like nothing 
else short of lighter fluid>  It does introduce the all-important 
notion that not every command in the Bible is to be taken literally 
and authoritatively.  I certainly see the logic of crossing out only 
those laws that later testaments specifically abrogate.*

So, does the NT abrogate that pesky OT verse about executing 
Hermione?  While Jesus didn't say anything about witches, so I 
suppose the OT verse stands, his radical mercy towards sinners (e.g. 
the woman taken in adultery) does plant the idea that his followers 
ought perhaps to focus their spiritual energy on practicing this 
mercy rather than rooting out HP fanhood.

Which is another Christian pro-HP argument I've read.  It's a 
lukewarm endorsement, to be sure, but it goes something like this:  
Yes, HP is problematic for Christians, but folks, let's focus on the 
really big problems, like _________ (fill in the blank with your 
favorite scourge:  poverty, war, homosexuality, low church 
attendance**).

I wrote:

> >Can anyone point us to an explanatory article, or explain it
> >themselves?

Terry wrote:

>Very sorry--I can't find that article I referenced earlier. 

I'm the one who should apologize--I had missed your post giving 
exactly the reference I was asking for.  Your summary was great, 
thanks.

Terry wrote:

> In LOTR only the wizards and Tom Bombadil do what we would call 
magic, and 
> Tom Bombadil is clearly not human.  He doesn't seem to have a 
Biblical 
> parallel, either--I've never figured out exactly what his function 
is.  But 
> Gandalf and Saruman are "wizards"--really Istari, sort of guardian 
angels.  
> They are not human, either, and the powers they have are not "magic 
powers", 
> but abilities that Eru created them with.  The hobbits and humans 
are even 
> sometimes uneasy about the "magic" that Gandalf does.
> 
> The point being that (according to this author) Tolkien clearly 
intended to 
> convey that magic is something humans should not have anything to 
do with 
> personally, because it was not intended for us.  

Excellent point.  That makes a lot of sense to me.  I'm sure there 
must be people who are a bit nervous about the fact that the books 
don't convey a "Gandalf, and therefore magic, is sent by God" message 
clearly enough, just the same, but I can see how the role of magic is 
much more palatable than in HP.

I think of Bombadil as a sort of Father Nature--the embodiment of 
Nature's power.  Oops, that sounds kind of Pagan again.

Terry wrote:

> Oh, I dunno..."Wizard" = "wise man"--the wise men who travelled to 
see Jesus 
> are sometimes translated as "magicians" or "mages"--same root word, 
isn't 
> it?  And doesn't "mage" mean "teacher" or "authority figure" as in 
> "magistrate"?  If you saw an angelic being who clearly had great 
knowledge, 
> mightn't you call him a wise man, or in vernacular, a wizard?

Of course!  But again, there is a very simplistic interpretation in 
some popular Christianity:  magic, wizard = witchcraft = bad.  Just 
try to tell most American fundamentalist Christians that Wicca is 
about healing, living in harmony with all things,  and praising the 
spiritual realm, and see how far you get.  Wicca =must= be bad 
because it gives a positive valuation to the 
words "magic," "witches," and "witchcraft."  The insistence by Wiccas 
that they share the basic Christian values is too often interpreted 
as one of the snares of the devil, and the possibility that what they 
practice the witchcraft condemned by the Bible is dismissed because 
of the magic ;-) words.

Clearly there are very thoughtful people distinguishing more 
carefully, some of whom come to the conclusion that LOTR is consonant 
with Christianity while HP is not.  This makes a lot more sense to me 
now, thanks.

Terry wrote:

>she evidently did not believe me when I warned her that she was 
> marrying the incarnation of evil...she claimed that that was not 
possible, 
> as she'd just divorced the incarnation of evil. :)

LOL!

A. Vulgarweed wrote:

>That is the moment of Tolkien's
> treacherous genius as well.

I just had to quote this line because it was so terrific.

A. Vulgarweed wrote:

> For
> all the magic in JKR's world, there's very little that's actually
> *supernatural*: magic is treated as just another force of nature, 
that
> obeys its own laws like gravity. We see ghosts, but no gods or 
angels or
> demons - just a whole other _ecological system_ the Muggles don't 
know
> about. Why do those with an eye to avoiding on basis of faith see 
this as
> _more_ threatening, rather than less? Is it creeping secular-
humanism? That
> would seem to directly contradict avoiding them on basis of magic,
> something secular humanists notoriously don't believe in.

Interesting point.  I think both arguments appear in Christian 
worries about HP:  that the books are too supernatural or not 
supernatural enough.  The one attacks Pagans, the other humanists.  
You can make either one stick.

To play Christian's Advocate here <g>, I think you can combine the 
two to make a sharp (from a certain Christian POV) criticism of HP:  
magic is real but belongs in the realm of the divine alone, and the 
books portray it as something a bunch of snot-nosed adolescents can 
do by mixing potions and waving wands.  The article Terry summarized 
gets at this also.  I believe the same argument has been made before 
on the main list, not necessarily about HP, but about the idea that 
magic can be good but only if it comes from God--Koinonia, are you 
there?

A. Vulgarweed wrote re: Voldemort:

>(In Tolkien's world he'd be, _at best_ something like a Nazgul.) 

LOL!

Amy Z
not Christian, not Pentacostal, but obsessed about religion and HP, 
oh my yes

*However, there is a very strong naive streak among many of the rank 
and file of American fundamentalists (less so among leaders, who 
understand and incorporate Biblical scholarship such as linguistics 
and archaeology--and of course nonexistent on this list <g>) that you 
read your NIV Bible the way you'd read, say, a nice, clearly-written 
legal contract, and whatever it says is the simple truth of what you 
should do.  No nuances of language, no weighing one verse against 
another, certainly no asking whether the laws governing the civic 
life of a nomadic tribe of three thousand years ago were ever meant 
to instruct 21st-century Americans in their religious obligations.  
Whereas IMO, language is inherently complex, culture-based, and 
impossible to pin down, so that even those whose spiritual source is 
a literal reading of the Bible =must= interpret and weigh statements.

**I know, I know, Americans are among the most church-going people in 
the world.  But it's still a major sore spot with evangelicals, who 
understandably don't consider anything less than 100% attendance 
satisfactory.




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 18 12:10:27 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:10:27 -0000
Subject: Erratum Re: JKR, JRRT, & JC
In-Reply-To: <bf8npr+icg0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf8o3j+qfa7@eGroups.com>

I wrote:

> The insistence by Wiccas 
> that they share the basic Christian values is too often interpreted 
> as one of the snares of the devil, and the possibility that what 
they 
> practice the witchcraft condemned by the Bible is dismissed because 
> of the magic ;-) words.

It should be:

...the possibility that what they practice is not the witchcraft 
condemned by the Bible...

AZ




From jillily3g at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 18 17:01:54 2003
From: jillily3g at yahoo.com (Beth)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:01:54 -0000
Subject: questions about terminology
In-Reply-To: <bf8npr+icg0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf9962+f1pv@eGroups.com>

Thank you, Amy Z, David, Terry and everyone else for such insightful 
discussion on the subject of Christians and HP. This has long 
troubled me and I think that examining has really helped me to begin 
to understand, even if I haven't been brave enough to broach the 
subject with my Dad again.

I do have another question regarding terminology. A friend and I 
were talking about these words, labels if you will, that we keep 
applying to certain Christians. She had been described anonymously 
to another committee member as fundamentalist, and therefore someone 
this person did not want to be in a group with. We weren't sure 
where the label came from, what this person meant, and why it would 
necessarily  be a bad thing (as it seems to be in this particular 
Presbyterian church), since fundamentals seem, well, basic and 
therefore important. Sooo... can someone point me to a description 
of various "labels" of Christians? What does evangelical mean and 
why does it sometimes seem interchangeable with fundamentalist? Does 
a "liberal" Christian believe in liberal politics or some "liberal 
theology"? You'd think I'd know all this, having grown up in a 
church, but there's really no Sunday School class covering it! And 
the media doesn't really explain every time they describe someone a 
certain way.

Beth, who is looking for an online dictionary for such a purpose 
right now




From kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Jul 18 17:25:59 2003
From: kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk (Kathryn Cawte)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:25:59 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] questions about terminology
References: <bf9962+f1pv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3F182DA7.000007.42303@monica>


 Beth
I do have another question regarding terminology. A friend and I 
were talking about these words, labels if you will, that we keep 
applying to certain Christians. She had been described anonymously 
to another committee member as fundamentalist, and therefore someone 
this person did not want to be in a group with. We weren't sure 
where the label came from, what this person meant, and why it would 
necessarily be a bad thing  

Me -

the problem with the term fundamentalist is the dichotomy between what it
actually means and what people use it to mean. It means pretty much what you
said it does. A fundamentalist basically follows the religious book of their
religion without worrying too much about the two thousand (in the case of
christianity) years of theological arguement that has happened since. This
is not necessarily a bad thing. Unfortunately the term is now used as
shorthand for the sort of intolerant, extreme conservative christian who
goes around burning books, threatening abortion clinics, trying to 'cure'
homosexuals, screaming about satanism every time they meet a Wiccan and
generally only loves his neighbour provided his neighbour believes exactly
what he says. This is similar to the way Muslim fundamentalist has become a
shorthand for lunatic likely to strap explosives to himeslf and blow people
up.

While there is absolutely nothing wrong with fuindamentalism it tends to be
used to mean intolerant small minded bigot. While I have no idea what your
friend's associate meant by the term that is pretty much what the mass media
means by it.

K
*in a cynical and grumpy mood and hoping I didn't offend anyone*



From bettedavisgreen at aol.com  Fri Jul 18 17:32:32 2003
From: bettedavisgreen at aol.com (bettedavisgreen at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:32:32 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] questions about terminology
Message-ID: <1ed.d6c2101.2c498930@aol.com>

Dans un e-mail dat? du 18/07/2003 19:02:43 Paris, Madrid (heure d'?t?), 
jillily3g at yahoo.com a ?crit :

> 
> Thank you, Amy Z, David, Terry and everyone else for such insightful 
> discussion on the subject of Christians and HP. This has long 
> troubled me and I think that examining has really helped me to begin 
> to understand, even if I haven't been brave enough to broach the 
> subject with my Dad again.
> 
> I do have another question regarding terminology. A friend and I 
> were talking about these words, labels if you will, that we keep 
> applying to certain Christians. She had been described anonymously 
> to another committee member as fundamentalist, and therefore someone 
> this person did not want to be in a group with. We weren't sure 
> where the label came from, what this person meant, and why it would 
> necessarily  be a bad thing (as it seems to be in this particular 
> Presbyterian church), since fundamentals seem, well, basic and 
> therefore important. Sooo... can someone point me to a description 
> of various "labels" of Christians? What does evangelical mean and 
> why does it sometimes seem interchangeable with fundamentalist? Does 
> a "liberal" Christian believe in liberal politics or some "liberal 
> theology"? You'd think I'd know all this, having grown up in a 
> church, but there's really no Sunday School class covering it! And 
> the media doesn't really explain every time they describe someone a 
> certain way.
> 
> Beth, who is looking for an online dictionary for such a purpose 
> right now
> 
> 

tough tough... I've sort of given up on understanding all the 
classifications.. Still, I did find this particular site very interesting and very chicken 
soup for the soul at times, and as a quizz freak I really enjoy their quizzes: <A HREF="http://www.belief.net/features/quiz/index.html">
http://www.belief.net/features/quiz/index.html</A>
Ended up discovering I'm part budhist. Actually, part every single religion 
in the world... But your immediate interest would be the What kind of Christian 
are you. Be prepared, questions are pretty tough, demanding real 
philosophical knowledge of what your beliefs really are...

Cristina


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From timregan at microsoft.com  Fri Jul 18 17:51:50 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:51:50 -0000
Subject: Christians and LOTR
In-Reply-To: <3F16D451.00000A.60617@monica>
Message-ID: <bf9c3m+b7nq@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter Kathryn wrote two statements:

1:
> Middle Earth is clearly not our Earth

2:
> JRRT was very clear that what he was creating 
> was a mythology for England 

Aren't these two statements contradictory? Isn't England part of our 
Earth? I don't think that the myths of a country are intended to be 
(or used as) just stories, just fictions. So in that sense Middle 
Earth would be more upsetting than the Potterverse.

I also remember Tolkein saying that when he first read Saxon (?)
English it felt as if he already knew the language. 

Cheers,

Dumbledad.

PS The two times I read (well tried to read) the Simarilion, I too 
got bogged down in the Old Testament syle bits and gave up. I never 
realised that a story was going to emerge later. I may try it again. 
Thanks.




From kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Jul 18 18:26:42 2003
From: kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk (Kathryn Cawte)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 19:26:42 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Christians and LOTR
References: <bf9c3m+b7nq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3F183BE2.000005.31421@monica>

Dumbledad.
 
 
--- In HPFGU-OTChatter Kathryn wrote two statements:
 
1:
> Middle Earth is clearly not our Earth
 
2:
> JRRT was very clear that what he was creating 
> was a mythology for England 
 
Aren't these two statements contradictory? Isn't England part of our 
Earth? I don't think that the myths of a country are intended to be 
(or used as) just stories, just fictions. So in that sense Middle 
Earth would be more upsetting than the Potterverse.
 
I also remember Tolkein saying that when he first read Saxon (?)
English it felt as if he already knew the language. 
 
 Me again -

darn I was hoping that had slipped by. I realised after I had said it that
it didn't make sense. He did say he was trying to create a mythology for
England and the hobbits vaguely correspond to England as a nation as I
recall. I meant that it doesn't really correspond to our world in the way HP
does. While it is supposed to be an ancient past of some kind I guess in the
way that other mythologies talk of a time when great deeds happened it
really doesn't fit into our world the way things like HP do. You couldn't
plot the location of Isengard or Minas Tirith in the way we can guess at the
location of Hogwarts. People reading LOTR can look out of a window (unless
they live in New Zealand) and clearly see that they are not in Middle Earth
and are not likely to bump into an elf or a hobbit walking down the street.
But Harry Potter lives in our England. We know people that resemble the
Dursleys or Dean or Seamus. It doesn't take much imagination to wonder if
there are hidden places that we muggles can't access all around us. That
makes it a threat to people who worry that kids can't tell fiction from fact
in a way that LOTR really isn't.

K



From staceypfan78 at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 18 18:28:59 2003
From: staceypfan78 at hotmail.com (Stacey)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:28:59 -0000
Subject: Slash fiction
Message-ID: <bf9e9b+hf2q@eGroups.com>

There seems to be a plethora of Harry Potter slash fiction.  I wonder 
why that is.




From kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Jul 18 18:38:48 2003
From: kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk (Kathryn Cawte)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 19:38:48 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Slash fiction
References: <bf9e9b+hf2q@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3F183EB8.000007.31421@monica>

 
 
Stacey said -
 
There seems to be a plethora of Harry Potter slash fiction. I wonder 
why that is.
 



Well let's be fair there's slash fiction out there for anything you can
think of (and several things you don't want to contemplate too)

As for HP - until OoP there was a distinct dearth of well developed female
characters, if you wanted to write a story involving romance without
introducing an original character you really had Minerva, Hermione or Ginny
for the girls (and since the last two are obviously a couple that rather
screws you up <g>) <-- that's a joke btw, although with all the fuss people
make trying to decide whether Hermione will end up with Harry or Ron or go
insane and marry Draco I would like to see the two of them walking off into
the sunset hand in hand :) For the guys you have Harry, Ron, Neville, Draco,
Fred, George, Percy, Oliver then you've got the older generation Sirius,
Remus, Severus, Hagrid, Dumbledore, Lucius .... Of course if you drop back
to MWPP era we also have James and Lily and peter

I'm sure I'm missing some, and for a lot of these there's some kind of
strong emotion involved. As long as there's emotion positive or negative a
good author can create a believable relationship. It's really not hate
between characters that kills a ship but indifference.

K



From timregan at microsoft.com  Fri Jul 18 18:53:40 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:53:40 -0000
Subject: Slash fiction
In-Reply-To: <3F183EB8.000007.31421@monica>
Message-ID: <bf9fnk+84hq@eGroups.com>

Hi Stacey,

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter Stacey  wrote:
> There seems to be a plethora of Harry Potter slash 
> fiction.  I wonder why that is.

There was a discussion of this on the group a while ago (try 
starting with Diana's post 13086 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/13086
and look at the myriad of threads spawned from there), but I think 
that there is tons more to say, which hopefully your post will 
illicit.

I also read a fascinating chapter in Henry Jenkins' ethnographic 
study of fan-fiction (from before the days of the internet) "Textual 
Poachers: Television Fans & Participatory Culture" 
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0415905729
He talks at length about why heterosexual women enjoy writing and 
reading homosexual male pairings involving their favorite 
characters. And that was part of the surprise for me ? the male / 
male partnerships are popular in fan-fiction and it's mostly fueled 
by heterosexual women. Part of it was about the balance of power in 
a sexual relationship, part was about revealed vulnerabilities, but 
there were loads more. If there's interest I'll try to summarize the 
chapter for this list. It will have to be after the weekend though ? 
I'm off camping with Kate and the kids on Mount Rainier.

Cheers,

Dumbledad.







From illyana at mindspring.com  Fri Jul 18 19:02:18 2003
From: illyana at mindspring.com (illyana delorean)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:02:18 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Slash fiction
In-Reply-To: <3F183EB8.000007.31421@monica>
Message-ID: <5A217782-B952-11D7-AAF3-003065B8B954@mindspring.com>


On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 11:38 America/Phoenix, Kathryn Cawte wrote:
>
>
> Well let's be fair there's slash fiction out there for anything you can
> think of (and several things you don't want to contemplate too)
>
>

I was thinking about this, and I wonder what the first slash fiction 
was about. Does anyone know how long slash fiction has been around? I 
am sure that it's been around, in some form, for hundreds of years, but 
I wonder how long it's been such a popular style of writing.

Also, how were you all introduced to slash fiction? The first I ever 
heard of it was when I was about 16 (in 1996) - I was on an egroup for 
The A-Team (American TV show, for those of you who don't know), and 
many of the women on the group wrote slash stories about the characters.

Just curious,

illyana
HPGCv1
a22 e+ x+* Rm Ri HP4 S+++ Mo++ HG+/VK++ HaP+/SS+++& FGW++ DM++& VC-- 
GG-- CD+ VK++ SS+++& PT--- AF-- MM++ RL++ O+m FAo F- Sl FHo SfD

visit my livejournal! http://www.livejournal.com/users/illyanadmc

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 18 19:06:55 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 19:06:55 -0000
Subject: questions about terminology
In-Reply-To: <3F182DA7.000007.42303@monica>
Message-ID: <bf9ggf+ltsc@eGroups.com>

Kathryn wrote:

> A fundamentalist basically follows the religious book of their
> religion without worrying too much about the two thousand (in the 
case of
> christianity) years of theological arguement that has happened 
since. This
> is not necessarily a bad thing. 

<snip>
 
> While there is absolutely nothing wrong with fuindamentalism it 
tends to be
> used to mean intolerant small minded bigot. While I have no idea 
what your
> friend's associate meant by the term that is pretty much what the 
mass media
> means by it.

Off the top of my head:

I think of fundamentalism as something in between these two, though 
where I got the definitions that float vaguely in my head, I couldn't 
say.  Fundamentalism bespeaks a certain rigidity about adhering to 
the received texts and "original forms" (this point is highly 
debatable, IMO) of the religion, and as Kathryn says, that isn't 
necessarily bad (though it is far from my cup of tea).  It is true 
that the term gets used unjustly.  

I think of "evangelical" as having more to do with worship 
style . . . what www.shipoffools.com calls "happy-clappy" (see 
Mystery Worshipper:  http://www.shipoffools.com/Mystery/).  OK, don't 
hit me--I *like* happy-clappy worship!  My dictionary tells me 
evangelicals also believe in the inerrancy of the Bible and an 
emphasis on personal salvation.  Take that with a grain of salt--what 
do dictionaries know about the gazillion forms of religion?  And then 
there's that evangelism bit--when I use the term I tend to mean 
churches that put a high value on reaching out and converting people.

"Conservative" and "liberal" aren't political but theological labels, 
meaning more or less the attitude toward change and adaptation to 
culture.  Liberals tend to embrace change in liturgy and ritual, 
question the inerrancy of the Bible because of its embeddedness in a 
particular time (and because of sincere doubt about its origins), 
and/or believe that revelation continues to this day (and in many 
forms, and in many traditions . . . depends how liberal you are).  
Conservatives tend to value older forms of ritual and liturgy, be 
hesitant about changes in the church, and believe that revelation was 
closed with the creation of the Biblical canon.

So a member of a liberal church may be conservative politically and 
vice versa, though there's a lot of overlap between theological and 
political liberalism, or theological and political conservatism.  I 
do know that some politically-conservative members of my 
theologically-liberal tradition get a bit irritated with the way we 
describe ourselves as "religious liberals" all the time.  As a 
political liberal, I guess I'd feel a little exasperated having my 
church described as "religiously conservative" all the time, even if 
it were true.  But the words apply differently to theology and 
politics.  In the US, conservative (theologically) Christians have 
become a huge political force, with enormous organizations that are 
part religious body, part political action committee; they started 
out with issues that have obvious theological roots, such as 
homosexuality and abortion, but moved on to issues that are dear to 
politically-conservative hearts but don't necessarily come from the 
teachings of Jesus, such as low taxation and the abolishment of 
public education. 

The whole question of religious change is an odd one.  There are 
always "let's get back to the time of Jesus" movements, and they are 
not at all limited to what we would consider conservative traditions; 
e.g., there have been many Christian communistic experiments where 
the residents of a small communal farm would try to live as the 
Christians of Acts did, sharing all of their property, etc. (there 
was a bumper crop of these in the 19th century US).  
Most "conservative" Christian groups in fact harken back to a 
particular period that occurred long after Jesus--the golden age 
varies from sect to sect.  E.g., while I think Kathryn put it very 
nicely, it's clear that modern-day fundamentalist Protestants most 
certainly do follow some of the theological arguments generated by 
the church in the past 2000 years, since they are, well, Protestants, 
a mega-sect that wasn't invented until the 16th century.  If they 
want to be *really* conservative they ought to be Roman Catholic, or 
Orthodox, or whatever one calls the early Christians who were 
floating around Corinth and such before what turned into the Catholic 
Church was established.  And are they more conservative or more 
liberal than the Christian pacifist who bases his radicalism in the 
life and death of Jesus himself?

None of these terms has a fixed dictionary definition that each 
person who describes him/herself by it would agree wtih (heck, try to 
get 5 Christians to agree on a definition of "Christian").  I think 
the most important thing about them, actually, is that they have 
multiple meanings and are not at all easy to sum up.

Amy Z




From saitaina at wizzards.net  Fri Jul 18 19:13:25 2003
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:13:25 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Slash fiction
References: <5A217782-B952-11D7-AAF3-003065B8B954@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <003b01c34d60$aa7ca340$18381c40@aoldsl.net>

illyana wrote:

<I was thinking about this, and I wonder what
the first slash fiction
was about. Does anyone know how long slash
fiction has been around? I
am sure that it's been around, in some form,
for hundreds of years, but
I wonder how long it's been such a popular
style of writing.>

Well considering I've seen slash works for
Sherlock Holmes and Watson and "The Picture
of Dorian Gray" I'm sure it's been around for
ages but popularity was truly gained via the
Star Trek fandom if I recall...can't think of
any form of it mainstream before that.


Saitaina
****
"No, one day I'm going to look back on all
this and plow face-first into a tree because
I was looking the wrong bloody way. And I'll
still be having a better day than I am
today."

http://www.livejournal.com/users/saitaina

My theory on housework is, if the item
doesn't multiply, smell, catch on fire or
block the refrigerator door, let it be. No
one cares. Why should you?




From kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Jul 18 19:13:11 2003
From: kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk (Kathryn Cawte)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:13:11 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Slash fiction
References: <5A217782-B952-11D7-AAF3-003065B8B954@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3F1846C7.000009.31421@monica>

 illyana

 
I was thinking about this, and I wonder what the first slash fiction 
was about. Does anyone know how long slash fiction has been around? I 
am sure that it's been around, in some form, for hundreds of years, but 
I wonder how long it's been such a popular style of writing.
 
Also, how were you all introduced to slash fiction? The first I ever 
heard of it was when I was about 16 (in 1996) - I was on an egroup for 
The A-Team (American TV show, for those of you who don't know), and 
many of the women on the group wrote slash stories about the characters.
 
Me -

The term originated with Kirk/Spock but I have been informed by someone who
was writing about this topic that there was Holmes/Watson fanfic around
pretty much from the time those books came out. Some cultural type whose
name escapes me was explaining at a university seminar that fanifction is
simply modern society's was of dealing with its own popular mythology. In
the medieval period stories would travel around the country with each teller
changing the story slightly and fitting to his style of storytelling,
fanfiction is how we deal with *our* cultural stories - which thanks to the
wonders of modern technology are sped around the world a lot faster these
days. It is a way of interacting with the medium.

Apparently. 

I discovered fanfiction in general with highlander back in 1996/7 when I
first had regular internet access, I pretty soon discovered Highlander slash
and I now read in more fandoms than I care to mention but only write in a
couple. I am on so many mailing lists for fic it's unreal and most (but not
all) tend to focus on slash relationships. Frankly I can slash *anything* if
I put my mind to it. I'm planning on making myself a banner for my website
saying "I see gay people" :)

K



From saitaina at wizzards.net  Fri Jul 18 19:19:49 2003
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:19:49 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Slash fiction
References: <5A217782-B952-11D7-AAF3-003065B8B954@mindspring.com> <3F1846C7.000009.31421@monica>
Message-ID: <004101c34d61$8fa7a140$18381c40@aoldsl.net>

k wrote:

<Frankly I can slash *anything* if
I put my mind to it. I'm planning on making
myself a banner for my website
saying "I see gay people" :)>

I need a button that says that.  I've started
looking at everything, books, telly shows,
movies, wondering if I could slash it.  Of
course...it's not our fault that the creators
of such things make it oh so easy with some
of these relationships.

Saitaina
****
"No, one day I'm going to look back on all
this and plow face-first into a tree because
I was looking the wrong bloody way. And I'll
still be having a better day than I am
today."

http://www.livejournal.com/users/saitaina

My theory on housework is, if the item
doesn't multiply, smell, catch on fire or
block the refrigerator door, let it be. No
one cares. Why should you?




From kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Jul 18 19:35:45 2003
From: kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk (Kathryn Cawte)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:35:45 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Slash fiction
References: <004101c34d61$8fa7a140$18381c40@aoldsl.net>
Message-ID: <3F184C11.00000F.31421@monica>

 
 
I need a button that says that. I've started
looking at everything, books, telly shows,
movies, wondering if I could slash it. Of
course...it's not our fault that the creators
of such things make it oh so easy with some
of these relationships.
 
Saitaina
****
 
I'll post you a  link when I make one if you want :)

I even start second guessing myself now when I watch things. I first saw
Cabaret a couple of years ago and I was watching it thinking the two leading
men are so obviously a couple and laughing at myself for slashing it and
then it turned out they were sleeping together!

Yeah some TV shows practically have subtitles saying slash me, please slash
me. The subtext is rapidly becoming text so to speak.
*cough*Smallville*cough*

K



From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Fri Jul 18 22:22:38 2003
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:22:38 -0000
Subject: Christians and LOTR
In-Reply-To: <bf7h49+v3c8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf9rve+9pcm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter, "Anne" wrote:
[snip]
> Seriously though, I never managed to finish the Silmarillion,
> precisely because of the doorstop tenor of the writing.

> I do recall that Tolkien's family found the manuscript
> --unfinished-- after his death, and based on the size of it, and
> the density (and I don't mean weight), it could have stood some
> serious editing. But, I mean, who can edit Tolkien, eh? 
[snip]

The diverse manuscripts that formed the basis of The Silmarillion 
were well known to at least Christopher Tolkien, and probably JRRT's 
other children as well.  Christopher Tolkien became significantly 
involved in his father's creative process in the later years; the map 
found in most editions of Lord of the Rings was drawn by Christopher 
Tolkien, for instance, a long time before his father's death.  
Tolkien did not have one Silmarillion manuscript in process of 
editing.  Each part, of often subparts of the parts, existing in 
many, many different versions, as he had been writing on the whole 
thing since around 1917-1918, sometimes changing his mind on what 
things should be like.  Particularly the Grey Annals, which were 
titled Quenta Silmarillion (the main part of the book The 
Silmarillion), were subjected to a lot fo this treatment.

Sometimes the process JRRT used when writing these manuscripts seems 
more like the process of a researcher discovering new facts about an 
ancient culture, and reinterpreting the culture in light of the new 
facts.  For instance, in his last years he was considering a major 
rewrite of significant parts of the main portion of The Silmarillion, 
based on his opinion that the story as it stood did not fit the 
linguistics of the elf-languages he had created.  Indeed, he also 
surmised that a chief reason for Fe?nor's rebellion against the Valar 
lay in an obscure change of grammar in the elvish language Quenya.

When JRRT died, he had indicated to his son that he did want to see 
The Silmarillion published, and Cristopher did his best to edit 
together what he felt was the best selection of texts.  Part of the 
problem is that when you have so many, many versions of text, some 
written on typewriter, some in near-illegible handwriting with faded 
pencil, some handwritten by someone paid to handwrite it for Tolkien, 
etc. etc., things fall through the cracks.  In the later 
published "Book of Unfinished Tales", Christopher Tolkien explains 
how he with his knowledge gathered through his later delvings into 
this mountain of texts, probably would have made different selections 
of versions.  The book "Unfinished Tales" incidentally can be 
recommended - while it does have many things sounding much like The 
Silmarillion, it also has other pieces more like LotR, and it has a 
lot of extra information on various subjects, including the wizards.  
It is composed of things Tolkien wrote which (obviously, from the 
title) never were completed as intended.

> Anne U
> (who seriously disliked the lack of Frodo and Aragorn in that 
book...)

But who needs Frodo or Aragorn, when one has a choice of Tuor or Huor 
or Fingolfin or Finarfin or Fingon or Agnor or Aglor or Finrod 
Felagund or Turgon or Maedhros or Elw? Singollo or Celebrimbor...?  
;-)

Incidentally, if one has trouble with The Silmarillion, it pays to 
skip the chapter which simply lists out the realms and lands of 
Beleriand - even devoted fans have problems with that chapter.

Best regards
Christian Stub?




From Koinonia2 at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 18 23:24:33 2003
From: Koinonia2 at hotmail.com (koinonia02)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:24:33 -0000
Subject: Juvenile Diabetes help needed
Message-ID: <bf9vjh+8l2q@eGroups.com>

Hi,

If anyone has a child with Type 1 diabetes and can tell me what to 
expect, would you please email me? Be sure and put diabetes or Harry 
Potter in the subject line.

Thanks a bunch,
"K" 




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Sat Jul 19 01:14:06 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (dfrankiswork at netscape.net)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:14:06 -0400
Subject: Fwd: Re: JKR, JRRT, & JC
Message-ID: <71B9FEF1.79317C87.6E93A4F5@netscape.net>

I sent this offlist to Amy by mistake and didn't keep a copy; I hope it's still legible after bouncing back and forth across the Atlantic!

D

>> Amy wrote:
>> > I'm just surprised that people who don't let 
>> > their children trick-or-treat because Halloween
>> has Pagan roots 
>> don't 
>> > get up in arms about a cosmology that has such
>> pagan overtones. 
>> > Maybe they aren't the same people.
>> 
>> I guess few of them have read the Silmarillion.
>> 
>> Interestingly, Jesus did comment on this sort of
>> trend in the church, 
>> when he advised his disciples to test prophets by
>> their fruits. The 
>> tendency in the church is to examine the *roots* of
>> an ideology or 
>> theology, and then judge it accordingly: 'CS Lewis
>> has Christian 
>> roots'; 'these ideas are based on Bible verses'
>> etc., whereas judging 
>> by fruits means you should look at the results in
>> people's 
>> lives: 'does this make them more loving, generous,
>> patient, etc.?'
>> 
>> So perhaps there's a way ahead here for Christian HP
>> fans who are 
>> troubled by their friends and relatives: what is the
>> impact of 
>> reading the books on their lives? What is the
>> impact of HP on 
>> society in general?
>> 
>> As long as the answer isn't "It means you spend 6
>> hours a day 
>> chatting to your fandom friends on the internet" I'd
>> be surprised if 
>> it's negative. So far, to my knowledge, nobody has
>> come up with 
>> actual examples of children being encouraged to lie,
>> break school 
>> rules, etc. by HP.
>> 
>> I wrote:
>> 
>> It smacks of a secular outlook, IMO, when seen from
>> a 
>> > > theistic POV.
>> 
>> Amy:
>> > 
>> > I agree, except to nitpick the word "secular." As
>> someone who 
>> > believes the secular and sacred are all but
>> impossible to pick 
>> apart, 
>> > or even the same thing (depends what day you catch
>> me on), I would 
>> > say that this belief of Dumbledore's is highly
>> religious.
>> 
>> Sure - I was purposely thinking from inside the
>> ghetto there.
>> 
>> A. Vulgarweed wrote:
>> > 
>> > > For
>> > > all the magic in JKR's world, there's very
>> little that's actually
>> > > *supernatural*: magic is treated as just another
>> force of nature, 
>> > that
>> > > obeys its own laws like gravity. We see ghosts,
>> but no gods or 
>> > angels or
>> > > demons - just a whole other _ecological system_
>> the Muggles don't 
>> > know
>> > > about. Why do those with an eye to avoiding on
>> basis of faith see 
>> > this as
>> > > _more_ threatening, rather than less? Is it
>> creeping secular-
>> > humanism? That
>> > > would seem to directly contradict avoiding them
>> on basis of magic,
>> > > something secular humanists notoriously don't
>> believe in.
>> 
>> Amy added:
>> > 
>> > Interesting point. I think both arguments appear
>> in Christian 
>> > worries about HP: that the books are too
>> supernatural or not 
>> > supernatural enough. The one attacks Pagans, the
>> other humanists. 
>> > You can make either one stick.
>> 
>> I think possibly an issue here is to distinguish
>> between opposition 
>> from those who have read the books and from those
>> who have not. 
>> (This is what was in my mind last night when I
>> referred to 'opinion-
>> formers'.) It's the interaction between the two
>> that's interesting. 
>> If the Christian scholars who read the books are not
>> very impressed, 
>> because of the 'creeping secular humanism', that's
>> one less brake on 
>> the superstitious or plain conservative who assume
>> that anything that 
>> sells by the hundred million must be getting evil
>> supernatural aid.
>> 
>> David


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From anneu53714 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 19 02:36:31 2003
From: anneu53714 at yahoo.com (Anne)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 02:36:31 -0000
Subject: The proximity of the Potterverse (was: Re: Christians and LOTR)
In-Reply-To: <3F183BE2.000005.31421@monica>
Message-ID: <bfaarf+9uog@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Kathryn Cawte" <kcawte at b...> 
wrote:
>You couldn't
> plot the location of Isengard or Minas Tirith in the way we can 
guess at the
> location of Hogwarts. People reading LOTR can look out of a window 
(unless
> they live in New Zealand) and clearly see that they are not in 
Middle Earth
> and are not likely to bump into an elf or a hobbit walking down the 
street.
> But Harry Potter lives in our England. We know people that resemble 
the
> Dursleys or Dean or Seamus. It doesn't take much imagination to 
wonder if
> there are hidden places that we muggles can't access all around us. 
That
> makes it a threat to people who worry that kids can't tell fiction 
from fact
> in a way that LOTR really isn't.


That, IMO, is one of the most brilliant things about the Potterverse -
 the way JKR has created this parallel universe that pretty much fits 
inbetween the electrons of the regular, "Muggle" universe (number 
twelve Grimmauld Place, anyone?). I especially love that we *can* try 
to locate Hogwarts, that we know where King's Cross Station is, and 
all those other details that bind the Wizard World to our own. Now 
that I'm used to the Potterverse, I find myself feeling impatient 
toward novels that create self-contained worlds, because I have to 
take time out from reading them to consult "the map" frequently. I 
realize that's probably a failing of my own imagination, but I don't 
care, because I think the Potterverse is, overall, brilliantly 
conceived. I actually worry more about ADULTS who can't tell fiction 
from fact... 

Anne U
(just wild about Harry, and doesn't care what A.S. Byatt, narrow-
minded people or anyone else thinks)





From kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk  Sat Jul 19 02:50:45 2003
From: kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk (Kathryn Cawte)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 03:50:45 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The proximity of the Potterverse (was: Re: Christians and LOTR)
References: <bfaarf+9uog@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3F18B205.000007.29173@monica>


 
 
 
Anne U
That, IMO, is one of the most brilliant things about the Potterverse -
the way JKR has created this parallel universe that pretty much fits 
inbetween the electrons of the regular, "Muggle" universe (number 
twelve Grimmauld Place, anyone?). I especially love that we *can* try 
to locate Hogwarts, that we know where King's Cross Station is, and 
all those other details that bind the Wizard World to our own. Now 
that I'm used to the Potterverse, I find myself feeling impatient 
toward novels that create self-contained worlds, because I have to 
take time out from reading them to consult "the map" frequently. I 
realize that's probably a failing of my own imagination, but I don't 
care, because I think the Potterverse is, overall, brilliantly 
conceived. I actually worry more about ADULTS who can't tell fiction 
from fact... 

Me -

Oh I agree. I find it intriguing that she can take the normal everyday world
and put such a magical spin on it.

Talking of worlds that are a twist on our own - have you read Neverwhere by
Neil Gaimen? Because I found that not only is it a fantastic book but if you
view your daily journey on the Tube through Gaimen's eyes it becomes a lot
more fun :)

K
 



From desiivy at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 19 03:26:05 2003
From: desiivy at yahoo.com (~Ivy~)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:26:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Slash fiction
In-Reply-To: <3F184C11.00000F.31421@monica>
Message-ID: <20030719032605.30569.qmail@web12702.mail.yahoo.com>


I just had to come out from lurking for this one.

I first dabbled into fanfiction, online. My very first fandom was Dragonballz. About a year ago. 

First the humor stories, getting braver I started reading the NC 17 stories, general het ones (male/female).

Then come learn that my true passion is the slash stories. 

A few months back when I first got into reading the Harry Potter books, Then the HP fanfiction, skipped over the others and went strait for the slash. 

An amusing little tid bit. My husband discovers my passion. 

As I said I read a lot of them, I left one on the screen he began to read it. I came back into the room, He was blushing like you wouldn?t believe the look on his face was priceless.. 

Ok A few months later after I started into the HP fanfiction, He again stole my computer, and began to read into the story (you?d think he?d learn after the first time, knowing what type of stories I read) I walked back into the room, He looked up at me, shaking his head he said, Ok I get all the sex, but why do they all have to be gay? My simple answer to his question was "Yes, Dear they all have to be gay?.. " 

I stand by that too!! In my personal fanfiction fantasy world, all men are either gay or at least should be gay. I do make exceptions of course. Dumbledore for example?. NO. Severus?. YES? 

IVY





Kathryn Cawte 
I need a button that says that. I've started
looking at everything, books, telly shows,
movies, wondering if I could slash it. Of
course...it's not our fault that the creators
of such things make it oh so easy with some
of these relationships.

Saitaina
****

I'll post you a  link when I make one if you want :)

I even start second guessing myself now when I watch things. I first saw
Cabaret a couple of years ago and I was watching it thinking the two leading
men are so obviously a couple and laughing at myself for slashing it and
then it turned out they were sleeping together!

Yeah some TV shows practically have subtitles saying slash me, please slash
me. The subtext is rapidly becoming text so to speak.
*cough*Smallville*cough*

K


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From morgan_d_yyh at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 19 11:18:58 2003
From: morgan_d_yyh at yahoo.com (Morgan D.)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 04:18:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Slash fiction
In-Reply-To: <1058607551.895.91444.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030719111858.63535.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com>

>    From: illyana delorean <illyana at mindspring.com>
> 
> Also, how were you all introduced to slash fiction? The first I ever 
> heard of it was when I was about 16 (in 1996) - I was on an egroup
> for 
> The A-Team (American TV show, for those of you who don't know), and 
> many of the women on the group wrote slash stories about the
> characters.

Well, I've been writing what can be considered slash fanfiction since
long before internet became popular -- therefore, long before ever
hearing the words "fanfiction", "slash" and, to be honest, "prostate".
^__^ 

That was nineteen years ago, dear me, and I was eleven. I wrote about
"Star Wars" and romantic encounters between Han Solo and Luke
Skywalker, and even made attempts at writing (rather anatomically
inaccurate) sex scenes. I kept my stories absolutely hidden from
everybody, and I did believe I was the only crazy kid that thought of
such things. Only when I was introduced to internet, about seven years
ago, I learned that there are millions of equally crazy people around
the world -- and that some of them were also people I've known in Real
Life and had kept their stories just as firmly hidden as I had mine
^__^  So I guess that makes me a proof that slash fanfiction isn't
simply a trendy fashion or whatever.

I've read a bunch of essays trying to explain the phenomenon of slash
fanfiction and particularly why in blazes straight women keep writing
about gay men. Some (male) essayists just love to bring up concepts
like "envy of the penis", etc.  *shrugs*  I admit I've never found an
essay or theory that managed to go deep into the subject without
forgetting some important segments of the phenomenon (such as the
influence of Japanese manga/anime/doujinshi, or the considerable number
of young ficwriters that *do* write slash only because all their
friends are doing it).

One of my favourite essays about it can be found at
http://www.bitchmagazine.com/archives/04_03slash/slash.html
But definitely the subject deserves more (bigotry-free) studies. 

(As you can see, Captain Cindy, I've followed your advice. *waves*)


Morgan D.
Hogwarts Letters - http://www.hogwartsletters.hpg.com.br

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com



From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 19 11:21:25 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 11:21:25 -0000
Subject: Self-contained worlds (was The proximity of the Potterverse)
In-Reply-To: <bfaarf+9uog@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfb9jl+a7qg@eGroups.com>

Anne U wrote:

> Now 
> that I'm used to the Potterverse, I find myself feeling impatient 
> toward novels that create self-contained worlds, because I have to 
> take time out from reading them to consult "the map" frequently. I 
> realize that's probably a failing of my own imagination

Not at all--it's a matter of preference.  I find the two experiences 
satisfying in different ways.  It is definitely a thrill to imagine a 
wizarding world overlaid upon the one that is so familiar (even most 
of us who have never seen Charing Cross Road or King's Cross can get 
the general idea and enjoy the juxtaposition).  Self-contained worlds 
provide a different kind of delight:  that of getting to know a new 
country and find it familiar over time even though one has never been 
there.  I have just been reading The Other Wind, the latest Earthsea 
novel by Ursula LeGuin <wave at David for tipping me off to its 
existence>, which has a detailed map.  I loved looking at all the 
island names, imagining little harbors in the deepest coves, and 
noting the towns near mountains that must be full of terrace farms 
and goats, and thinking about what it would be like to live on a tiny 
island where to get to the nearest town you have to get in a boat 
<shudder--I don't do well on boats>.  (I *was* impatient that she 
only includes the main archipelago in her map, though.  I wanted to 
see the Kargish lands.)  There's something really special about 
entering a whole new world--and JKR thinks so too, tipping her cap to 
JRRT for being such a master of world-creation:  "he created a whole 
mythology, an incredible achievement."

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/quickquotes/articles/2001/0301-
comicrelief-staff.htm

But even with books that create a whole mythology, geography, 
history, language, etc., one makes the bridge by the "new world" 
having some similarities to our own.  The bourgeois sensibilities of 
hobbits make them endearing and annoying in exactly the way some 
humans we know are.  With Earthsea, the description of Havnor is 
familiar to anyone who knows cities, seaports, palaces, and human 
nature; reading The Other Wind, I could fit into our world the 
sailors who are superstitious about a wizard passenger who has dark 
nightmares and the children who make games out of gardens and twisted 
streets.  If the world of a scifi or fantasy book weren't anything 
like our world at all, I don't think we could care about the story or 
the characters.

I suppose this all ties in to what people say about scifi/fantasy 
books--that they are "escapist"--and why I don't find them so.  At 
least not the ones I like best.

Amy Z




From joym999 at aol.com  Sat Jul 19 15:21:36 2003
From: joym999 at aol.com (joywitch_m_curmudgeon)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 15:21:36 -0000
Subject: Self-contained worlds (was The proximity of the Potterverse)
In-Reply-To: <bfb9jl+a7qg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfbnm0+ab6o@eGroups.com>

> Anne U wrote:
> 
> > Now 
> > that I'm used to the Potterverse, I find myself feeling impatient 
> > toward novels that create self-contained worlds, because I have 
to 
> > take time out from reading them to consult "the map" frequently. 
I 
> > realize that's probably a failing of my own imagination


--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Amy Z" <lupinesque at y...> 
wrote:
> Not at all--it's a matter of preference.  I find the two 
experiences 
> satisfying in different ways.  

I think Anne is right.  What JKR has done is different, and to me 
more satisfying.  I, too, love the Earthsea novels and the Pern 
novels and other fantasy worlds with their own maps and realities.  
But, to me, one of the reasons that JKR's world is so much better 
than ANY of the others is precisely because I can retain my belief 
that it exists, just outside my grasp.  Those other worlds may exist, 
but they are so far away that I can't imagine ever seeing them.  But 
JKR's world I can catch glimpses of, all the time.  I can go to 
King's Cross, I can imagine all the places that might, just might, be 
the Leaky Cauldron, if I weren't a muggle and could only see it.

Middle Earth, and the galaxy far, far away where the Rebel Alliance 
is fighting The Empire, and all those other places are out of my 
reach, and I will never go there.  But the Wizarding World is right 
here, I know it is, and I love HP because I know I will find the 
entrance to Diagon Alley someday.

-Joywitch







From boggles at earthlink.net  Sat Jul 19 22:32:18 2003
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 17:32:18 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Christians and LOTR
In-Reply-To: <3F16D451.00000A.60617@monica>
References: <bf6ioj+4ihe@eGroups.com> <3F16D451.00000A.60617@monica>
Message-ID: <p05200f01bb3f761847fa@[192.168.1.100]>

At 5:52 PM +0100 7/17/03, Kathryn Cawte wrote:
>
>
>  Amy Z wote:
>>But what I most wonder about the HP-hating Tolkien lovers is whether
>>they have ever read the Ainulindale (the creation story in The
>>Silmarillion--the part you skip to get to the good stuff about the
>  >Silmaril).
>
>And seriously - there are good bits in the Silmarillion?

*LOL* Oh, dear.  I ripped through the Ainulindale at a sitting, 
completely devoured it - it's the parts after that that bogged me 
down terribly.  Then again, I *loved* the Valar - it's the perfect 
pantheon (if you ignore the sexism, which is present in pretty much 
all the historical ones as well) - and I'm not Christian, either.


At 5:52 PM +0100 7/17/03, Kathryn Cawte wrote:
>Perhaps it's in part because while based in some ways on our world Middle
>Earth is clearly not our Earth whereas JKR's world is ours.

Actually, I don't think it's safe to say that Middle Earth is 
"clearly not our Earth."  Tolkien indicates in a couple of different 
places that it's a "mythic" version of our world, in time before 
history.  Granted, that's a far cry from 1990s Britain, which is 
where and when JKR has placed her story, but "Middle Earth" is based 
on "Midgard" - which, in the Norse myths, was indeed the world the 
tellers lived in.

-- 

  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles(at)earthlink.net
"It is not knowledge, but the act of learning, not possession but the 
act of getting there, which grants the greatest enjoyment. "
	- Gauss, in a Letter to Bolyai, 1808.



From binx04 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 19 23:29:31 2003
From: binx04 at yahoo.com (Binx)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 16:29:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Nicknames
Message-ID: <20030719232931.44852.qmail@web41609.mail.yahoo.com>

I was reading a message on the main list from 
junediamanti and bibphile (#71657) about Snapes
nickname and how he got it. I dont think Snape got
his nickname because of anything James or Sirius saw.
I think even as an emotional 14 year old boy he had
too much pride to ever let anyone see him cry. I think
he got his nickname because its an insult that sounds
similar to his actual name. Allow me elaborate. 
				
I remember a few years ago when I was much more crass
than I am now. I was sitting with some friends and I
saw a boy walking down the street. There was nothing
wrong with this boy. He looked just like any normal,
ordinary high school boy. But I saw him *everywhere*.
I asked one of my friends who that guy was. He said
who? Clint? I said oh...(this is where I said Clint
without the *n* ) and everyone laughed. After that,
that poor boy went through the rest of high school
with a very unfortunate nickname simply because his
real name sounded like something else. 

Another example. I went to High School with a boy
named Scott whose nickname was Rebar, because while he
was at a construction site he fell down and a rod of
rebar stuck him ...um.... err... well...  stuck him
where it counts I suppose. (It was a million to one
shot Doc. A million to one). So he got his nickname
because of something that happened to him. 

So yeah, the reason I started this in the first place
is I want to know about nicknames. Who out there has
them and why.  

Binx, whose nickname has nothing to do with Star Wars. 

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com



From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 20 02:11:59 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 22:11:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Happy Birthday, Cristina!
Message-ID: <20030720021159.86648.qmail@web41106.mail.yahoo.com>

*a very harried Birthday Elf rushes in the door after
work and immediately starts hanging streamers and
blowing up balloons*

Don't go anywhere folks, we have a party to get
started!

Today's birthday honouree is Cristina. Birthday owls
can be sent care of this list or directly to:
Bettedavisgreen at aol.com

I hope your day has been magical and filled with fun
and friends.

Happy Birthday, Cristina!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf

=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From hypercolor99 at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 20 11:58:06 2003
From: hypercolor99 at hotmail.com (alice_loves_cats)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:58:06 -0000
Subject: Nicknames
In-Reply-To: <20030719232931.44852.qmail@web41609.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bfe04e+ovt8@eGroups.com>

Hello!

Binx wrote:
> I was reading a message on the main list from 
> junediamanti and bibphile (#71657) about Snape's
> nickname and how he got it. I don't think Snape got
> his nickname because of anything James or Sirius saw.
> I think even as an emotional 14 year old boy he had
> too much pride to ever let anyone see him cry. I think
> he got his nickname because it's an insult that sounds
> similar to his actual name. Allow me elaborate. 

Alice:
I thought it was to do with his nose. The size of it, I mean. :-)

Nicknames: Well, I've just been to Croatia and because I could never
remember the other Hungarians' names I came up with lots of nicknames,
mostly relating to appearance. Hence: Barrel, Penguin, Sea Cow, Mr
Bean, Yogi Bear, Spitting Viper, Beekiller, etc. Problem is, most
nicknames suffer and die in translation, so I won't be able to tell
you the best ones. :-)

Alice
---is completely and utterly in love with Croatians, but also glad to
be back in home-sweet-home Hungary




From naama_gat at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 20 13:57:11 2003
From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naamagatus)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 13:57:11 -0000
Subject: Saving Grace in JRRT (was Re: JKR, JRRT, & JC)
In-Reply-To: <l03130303bb3d2eb3b9a9@[67.73.136.134]>
Message-ID: <bfe73n+9aif@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "A. Vulgarweed" <fluxed at e...> 
wrote:
> Amy Z:
> >You can certainly see a Christian allegory in LOTR, as in most 
tales
> >of redemptive sacrifice.  But it isn't at all simple.  Especially
> >difficult is the fact that that slimesucker Gollum seems to be the
> >sacrificial lamb, while Frodo the Good goes over to the demonic at
> >the crucial moment.
> 
> I'm amazed more people haven't brought this moment up. Fear of 
spoilers for
> the movie-goers? Because that is THE defining moment of LOTR for 
me, the
> point at which all illusion of comforting allegory is out the 
window and
> the reader is slapped in the face with the potential for corruption 
that we
> ALL have, and hard! 

But why is that slapping the reader in the face? Aren't humans, 
according to basic Christian dogma, inherently corrupted beings? It 
seems to me that an earnest Christian should be delighted with such a 
message!


>It's crushing, and for those expecting a
> straightforward fantasy-epic denouement, it is deeply shocking. For 
all the
> Orc-slaughter that's been cheered so much throughout, the world is 
saved
> ONLY because, waayyyyy back in the story, Frodo had been persuaded 
(against
> his impulses) to show mercy to a despicable/pathetic treacherous 
little
> creature who almost got them killed for it. That is the moment of 
Tolkien's
> treacherous genius as well.
> 

You know, both you and Amy surprise me. I've always seen LOTR's 
ending as the supreme expression of JRRT's Christian theology. This 
is how I see it: Frodo "going over to the demonic" expresses the very 
Christian idea of man's fall. If Frodo had overcome the ring, he (who 
represents man) would have saved the world and himself without divine 
intervention. What saved Frodo wasn't his own strength (which, as 
merely human is inherently insufficient), but the compassion that he 
has shown Gollum. Frodo had saved and protected Gollum more than once 
(and that it was against his impulses is precisely what makes it 
great) as far as I recall. And not only he - Gollum stays alive 
because Bilbo, Gandalf, Frodo, Faramir, and, finally - Sam, all 
showed him pity and compassion. Isn't that what grace is? The world 
was saved by divine grace (as expressed in Gollum's accidental fall), 
which parallels the many acts of grace by which Gollum was premitted 
to live in the first place, although he didn't deserve it. Isn't the 
whole point of grace that it is undeserved?


Naama




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Jul 20 15:02:07 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 15:02:07 -0000
Subject: Reminder - Weekly Chat 
Message-ID: <1058713327.19.30786.m12@yahoogroups.com>


We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Weekly Chat 

Date: Sunday, July 20, 2003 
Time: 11:00AM - 7:00PM CDT (GMT-05:00) 

Hi everyone! 

Don't forget, chat happens today, 11 am Pacific, 2 pm Eastern, 7
pm UK time. *Chat times are not changing for Daylight
Saving/Summer Time.*  Chat generally goes on for about 5 hours,
but can last as long as people want it to last.

Go into any Yahoo chat room and type /join HP:1 
For further info, see the Humongous BigFile, section 3.3.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/hbfile.html#33

Hope to see you there! 

 





From triner918 at aol.com  Sun Jul 20 15:30:06 2003
From: triner918 at aol.com (Trina)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 15:30:06 -0000
Subject: Teachers & HP
In-Reply-To: <bekjj0+6pn9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfechu+jrdt@eGroups.com>

--- "grindieloe" wrote:
> I am a teacher (5th grade), and was wondering what 
> percentage of adult fans happen to also be teachers??? What other 
> professions seem to be high on the HP Fan list? 
> 


I am a speech therapist in a primary school (K-2) and I think my kids 
love the fact that I know who these people are.  Last year our school 
was K-3 (sadly, our 3rd graders are moving over to the elementary 
school this year. :(  I'm going to miss them!) and one group of my 
3rd graders and I got into a "which HP character is everyone in the 
group?" discussion.  It started because I asked two of them to stop 
bickering a la Hermione and Ron.  Then of course the other three 
wanted to know who they were.  LOL

Two Christmases ago, my friend gave a HP watch in which Dumbledore 
changes colors with the temp.  I was showing it to a bunch of 2nd 
grade boys when we got back from break, who then told me that "my 
watch was the coolest thing I got."  Yeah, pots and pans and slippers 
just can't hold a candle to an color changing HP watch!

Trina, gearing up for the start of school--just 2 weeks away!






From Cfitz812 at aol.com  Sun Jul 20 21:44:28 2003
From: Cfitz812 at aol.com (Claire)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:44:28 -0000
Subject: Umbridge in The Scotsman/Poll
In-Reply-To: <be9r39+g07j@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bff2fs+3eni@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Gabriela" <gabolamx at y...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Catherine Keegan 
> <keegan at m...> wrote:
> > http://www.news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=735522003
> > 
> > Wonderful article about the newest DADA teacher.  Gotta love the 
> Scotsman.
> > 
> > Catherine in California
> 
> Hello, I've been de-lurking often lately :). I read the article 
and 
> it was wonderful, but what really surprised me was the poll (on 
the 
> right side of the page). According to the poll OoP is the best 
book 
> of HP; even better than PoA. What do you think about this? I still 
> can't decide where to place OoP on my list (I used to be a 3-4-1-2 
> person) but definitely not before PoA because I still love Sirius 
to 
> pieces. I would really like to know your feelings about this.
> 
> Gabriela
> (who thinks she probably is a 3-4-5-1-2 person now) ;)

Hmmm, I've been thinking a lot about this lately, having reread the 
first four to get ready for 5.

I'm 1-5-3-4-2

Claire




From Cfitz812 at aol.com  Sun Jul 20 21:48:23 2003
From: Cfitz812 at aol.com (Claire)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:48:23 -0000
Subject: UK Edition
In-Reply-To: <beamea+69fh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bff2n7+8u76@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Beth" <jillily3g at y...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "grindieloe" <andie at k...> 
> wrote:
> > I have a question for US residents that bought a UK OOP 
edition... 
> > Where did you buy yours from? I really want to get one, but I'm 
> not 
> > sure the best route to go... :)
> > 
> > Your input in appreciated...
> > 
> > grindieloe :)
> 
> I bought mine from amazon.uk when I read on The Leaky Cauldron 
that 
> they were available for half price (?8.49) However, the currency 
> converter shows that the cost in US$="14.1398" :o) When you add 
> airmail, plus regular shipping charges.... Well, let's just say 
I'm 
> glad I love it!
> 
> Beth
> 
> 
>Thanks for asking, grindieloe--I was wondering the same thing.  I'm 
going right to Amazon to get a copy.  I'm using both sides of my 
brain in this group for the first time in years!  Loving it.

Claire




From Cfitz812 at aol.com  Sun Jul 20 21:51:32 2003
From: Cfitz812 at aol.com (Claire)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:51:32 -0000
Subject: HP tough quizes
In-Reply-To: <becpnj+i929@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bff2t4+mkn4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <kattrap_meow at y...> 
wrote:
>  Suzaku <phoenix_suzaku18 at y...> wrote:
> >  I've been in search of a difficult Harry Potter quiz. For an 
obsessed adult like me, who can quote almost every character from 
memory. (I specialize in differentiating between Gred and Forge ^_-.)
> >  So if anyone has a link to a *really* tough quiz, please let me 
know... (Since I claim to know so much -- too much -- I should 
probably create my own quiz. Hmmm.)  
> 
> Not sure if it's hard enough for you, but I like the Scholastic 
trivia:
> 
> http://www.scholastic.com/harrypotter/challenge/index.htm
> (hopefully you have a flash enabled browser)
> 
> The questions are submitted by fans, lots and lots of questions.
> If anyone else has suggestions, I'd like to here them also!
> 
> -Andrea/Kattrap
> 

You might also check the BBC website's large Harry Potter section.  
they have a number of quiz selections.  It's in the children's 
section, but do a search for Harry Potter and you'll get there.

Claire




From Cfitz812 at aol.com  Sun Jul 20 22:00:23 2003
From: Cfitz812 at aol.com (Claire)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:00:23 -0000
Subject: other childrens literature
In-Reply-To: <befqn7+61uk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bff3dn+gu23@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "linlou43" <linlou43 at y...> 
wrote:
> 
> Dumble dad wrote:
> 
> > I've not read Bunter, but I think I did read one Enid Blyton. 
They 
> > are part of the fabric of childhood in the UK, so you end up 
> knowing 
> > of them by osmosis.
> 
> 
>       I had never heard of Bunter or Enid Blyton until this 
thread. 
> As an American, I started with the Bobsey Twins, progressed to the 
> Trixie Belden Series(Anybody else remember those?), then moved on 
to 
> Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys. These were my *just for the fun of 
it 
> reading*. I also spent a lot of time reading and re-reading the 
> Chronicals of Narnia etc. before I started moving on to the 
> *clasics*. While taking a break from a previous job as a 
restaurant 
> supervisor, I was asked if I had gone back to school- I had taken 
> the Illiad out of the library for a  *bit of light reading* (ala 
> Hermione). I was the type of kid whose mother had to admonish her 
> to "Put down the book and do your math home work." LOL
> 
>   -linlou

Oh my god, Trixie Belden!  Haven't thought about those in years.  
Used to have a complete collection of Nancy Drew (as a young adult, 
even).  I still read children's books, they're some of my favorites, 
Madeline L'Engle especially.  I consider JKR's ability to create a 
plausible alternate universe similar to L'Engle's.  I still read 
Laura Ingalls Wilder and Maud Hart Lovelace's Betsy-Tacy books, 
often when I've had a particularly stressful day (which never 
happens, right?).

Claire




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Sun Jul 20 22:11:07 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:11:07 -0000
Subject: Kargad lands (was Self-contained worlds)
In-Reply-To: <bfb9jl+a7qg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bff41r+694t@eGroups.com>

Amy Z wrote:

> I have just been reading The Other Wind, the latest Earthsea 
> novel by Ursula LeGuin <wave at David for tipping me off to its 
> existence>, which has a detailed map. 
>
> (I *was* impatient that she 
> only includes the main archipelago in her map, though.  I wanted 
to 
> see the Kargish lands.)  

**waves back**

Unless the British publishers have taken the liberty of adding to 
LeGuin's map, you'll find them at the top right of the map: Karego-
At, Atuan, Hur-At-Hur, and Atnini.  East of Gont and north of The 
Hands.

I always think of them as a cross between the Vikings and primitive 
Japan.

David




From Cfitz812 at aol.com  Sun Jul 20 22:16:22 2003
From: Cfitz812 at aol.com (Claire)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:16:22 -0000
Subject: Teachers & HP
In-Reply-To: <bekjj0+6pn9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bff4bm+40dp@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "grindieloe" <andie at k...> 
wrote:
> I know this is OT-chatter, but I hope this is not TOO OT! 
> I've been noticing recently that many Harry fans happen to be 
> teachers! :)  I am a teacher (5th grade), and was wondering what 
> percentage of adult fans happen to also be teachers??? What other 
> professions seem to be high on the HP Fan list? 
> 
> grindieloe

I used to teach (3rd grade and 5th grade).  Does that count?

Claire




From Cfitz812 at aol.com  Sun Jul 20 22:27:58 2003
From: Cfitz812 at aol.com (Claire)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:27:58 -0000
Subject: hurricanes
In-Reply-To: <bf4g8v+h4t0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bff51e+a7ug@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Amanda" <editor at t...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, ldenell at a... wrote:
> > Just a shout out to Amanda and our other southern Texas members -
- 
> hope
> > y'all made it through the hurricane and related mess all right!
> > 
> > - Linda, in hurricane-proof Wisconsin
> 
> Just very wet. Stirs up all the many-legged life; we have two 
types 
> of venomous spider down here and I had to deal with *both* of them 
> before 8 am yesterday.
> 
> ~Amanda

Glad things weren't too bad, Amanda, notwithstanding spiders (hate 
the many-legged things!).  Too bad you couldn't have shuttled some 
of that moisture to Missouri.  Heat indices have been over 110 for 
the last week and we need the rain badly.

Claire (thinking rain just makes the heat wet, but would like some 
anyway)




From Cfitz812 at aol.com  Sun Jul 20 22:29:52 2003
From: Cfitz812 at aol.com (Claire)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:29:52 -0000
Subject: Creating a wizard marketplace
In-Reply-To: <bf4ro5+8t58@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bff550+a812@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Beth" <jillily3g at y...> 
wrote:
> Since we are establishing that so many members have some 
connection 
> to education, I'm hoping someone could point me in the right 
> direction. :o)
> 
> I will soon (next month!) be teaching a class on Harry Potter at 
> a "kids on campus" program. I remember doing an activity in junior 
> high in which we visited other students' "businesses" and bought 
> goods or services from them. I thought it would be fun for my 
> students to create a wizarding world business and do this 
activity, 
> but I'd like some guidance as to how to set it up logistically. I 
> can't seem to come up with the right keywords for a search engine. 
> Can anyone direct me to a website with a lesson plan like this?
> 
> Thanks!
> Beth

Beth, if no one else has mentioned it, you might try to Scholastic 
website.  I know they have teacher resources there and might be able 
to provide with ehough to create your lesson plan.

Claire




From cate at eyestar.net  Sun Jul 20 23:38:54 2003
From: cate at eyestar.net (Cate)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 23:38:54 -0000
Subject: UK Edition
In-Reply-To: <bff2n7+8u76@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bff96e+5ned@eGroups.com>

Claire:
> Thanks for asking, grindieloe--I was wondering the same thing.  I'm 
> going right to Amazon to get a copy.  I'm using both sides of my 
> brain in this group for the first time in years!  Loving it.

You can also get UK editions of the books from Amazon.ca, the
Canadian Amazon. I imagine shipping would be a lot less from Canada to 
the US instead of from overseas. I have the first four books in 
paperback of the UK editions from Amazon.ca.

Cate




From ninth88 at aol.com  Sun Jul 20 23:46:36 2003
From: ninth88 at aol.com (ashwinder99)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 23:46:36 -0000
Subject: Hogwarts scarves, etc. 
Message-ID: <bff9ks+7ocg@eGroups.com>

I was looking at some of the pictures from Nimbus-2003 and was 
reminded how much I really want a Slytherin scarf. I've seen them 
before but I have no idea where to find them, or any other Hogwarts 
attire for that matter... So if anybody knows, it would be really 
helpful.

Thanks,

Olivia




From Cfitz812 at aol.com  Mon Jul 21 00:13:53 2003
From: Cfitz812 at aol.com (Claire)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 00:13:53 -0000
Subject: UK Edition
In-Reply-To: <bff96e+5ned@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bffb81+7k2o@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cate" <cate at e...> wrote:
> Claire:
> > Thanks for asking, grindieloe--I was wondering the same thing.  
I'm 
> > going right to Amazon to get a copy.  I'm using both sides of my 
> > brain in this group for the first time in years!  Loving it.
> 
> You can also get UK editions of the books from Amazon.ca, the
> Canadian Amazon. I imagine shipping would be a lot less from 
Canada to 
> the US instead of from overseas. I have the first four books in 
> paperback of the UK editions from Amazon.ca.
> 
> Cate

Thanks, Cate.  Shipping is less from Canada.

Claire




From andie at knownet.net  Mon Jul 21 00:38:27 2003
From: andie at knownet.net (grindieloe)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 00:38:27 -0000
Subject: Hogwarts scarves, etc.
In-Reply-To: <bff9ks+7ocg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bffcm3+aers@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "ashwinder99" <ninth88 at a...> 
wrote:
> I was looking at some of the pictures from Nimbus-2003 and was 
> reminded how much I really want a Slytherin scarf. I've seen them 
> before but I have no idea where to find them, or any other Hogwarts 
> attire for that matter... So if anybody knows, it would be really 
> helpful.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Olivia


I know that many places that have Griffindor scarves, but the only 
place I've seen Slytherin scarves is at www.hpwizardstore.com.

You can check www.wbshop.com and www.orderofmerlin.com also, but I'm 
pretty sure they only have Griffindor ones... :)

Hope this helps!
grindieloe :)




From dark30 at vcn.bc.ca  Mon Jul 21 09:02:57 2003
From: dark30 at vcn.bc.ca (Dan Feeney)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:02:57 -0000
Subject: Self-contained worlds (was The proximity of the Potterverse)
In-Reply-To: <bfbnm0+ab6o@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfga81+ejfc@eGroups.com>

Before reading Rowling, I was dead set against the books. (Not 
uncommon, it would seem). But seeing TMTMNBN, and then reading all 4 
books in one week (and not on holidays), and then being at the local 
bookstore on Saturday night June 20, 2003....

It was that proximity that put me off - how could it work and not be 
just completely silly? Did i really want to read something like THAT?
I had found Tom Covenant unreadable. I had read Tolkien too much. 
Earthsea doesn't require more than a reading or two in 10 years, as 
wonderful as it is... And my favourite author, the incorrigable, 
incredible Thomas Bernhard, well, just too familiar, too easy for me, 
we are too much alike... I needed something else. Turns out Rowling 
was it.

But I find more similarity between Rowling and Dickens than between 
Rowling and anyone else. Where Dickens gets most philosophical, in 
Bleak House, say, I noticed it in a different way than in the Hard 
Times leaflets, or Copperfield (the first Dickens I read).

The kind of characters Dickens generated, and their relationship 
to "realistic" characters, is a bit like the relationship in Rowling. 
Maybe I'm talking more about both a tone, a way of creating 
characters, and a politic. In some ways, that is to say, Dickens can 
be parsed as a so-called realist, but in other ways, his books are 
quite fantastic. And in Rowling, the muggle world, especially as it 
is represented by the Dursley's, is fantastic, but the witch wizard 
world is much more realistic. Interesting inversion, don't you think?

Rowling's point, I'm pretty sure, goes something like this - the 
world is pretty weird in some ways, politically and otherwise, and I 
show this by postulating a parallel world that, though appearing to 
be quite fantastic, makes slightly more sense. It's not a simple 
inversion - there are definitely things about the witch wizard world 
that are backwards or ridiculous, but the inversion works because 
readers, fans, sort themselves into the witch wizard world, not the 
muggle one. That is where we read the books from, our POV is embedded 
thoroughly inside the witch wizard world. And interestingly, lots of 
non-fans know they are muggles - I've seen it in a number of places. 

When Arthur is telling Molly about the stitches, for instance, it 
appears the youth know precisely what stitches are, and boot it to 
the fifth floor (or at least mean to get there) to do something 
rather muggle in itself. We laugh at both the concept, and the 
stereotypical muggle relationship between Molly and Arthur being 
depicted. Also Arthur's obsession with muggle things, etc. I mean, 
Arthur's fascination with a flying car is precisely the fascination a 
rather strange character in our world would demonstrate, trying to 
build a flying car. These little ice creams are directed toward the 
younger readers, give a vantage point a step away from the recieved 
view, a little moment of humour and liberation, as it were, and we 
adult readers know this. They are not above interpretation, however, 
rather, we just sort of ignore them, on our list. (There are like a 
ring of old keys, and we've forgotten what they open but we keep them 
anyway.)

On the main list I hold forth views that postulate a "real" Harry, a 
kid JKR knew, who was abused in some way, which the kid JKR knew, and 
what JKR did with her response to seeing his helplessness was too, 
much later, in adulthood that is, when she wasn't just as helpless in 
her compassion for the boy as he was in his existence, create an out 
for him. (Sometimes, I think, some of us think that we are 
participating in his liberation from helplessness just by reading the 
books! Isn't that odd, that we feel that way, or that I should think 
that we think this way?)

This has become a ramble, sorry, and almost main list stuff. The 
point was, I agree that what Rowling has done is unique - I was just 
trying to parse WHY and HOW it is unique. Wherever Rowling was at the 
time she had her vision, wherever she was mentally, that is, the 
train became a symbol. Hogwarts is her way out, and Harry's. 

More some other time.

dan




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 21 13:26:27 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:26:27 -0000
Subject: Saving Grace in JRRT (was Re: JKR, JRRT, & JC)
In-Reply-To: <bfe73n+9aif@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfgpm3+n96o@eGroups.com>

Naama wrote:

> Isn't the 
> whole point of grace that it is undeserved?

Not for Jesus.  Jesus is God.  That's why I imagined that Christians 
would not be much reassured by being told that Frodo is Christ.

If the story is instead interpreted as a tale of human temptation, 
suffering, sacrifice, etc., then sure, that would be a good way to 
resolve the problem.

Amy Z




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 21 13:39:44 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:39:44 -0000
Subject: Kargad lands (was Self-contained worlds)
In-Reply-To: <bff41r+694t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfgqf0+avi8@eGroups.com>

David wrote:

> Unless the British publishers have taken the liberty of adding to 
> LeGuin's map, you'll find them at the top right of the map: Karego-
> At, Atuan, Hur-At-Hur, and Atnini.  East of Gont and north of The 
> Hands.

I'm sure the British publishers have not taken liberties, but the 
American publishers have run a map titled "The Inner Lands of 
Earthsea," on which the only islands directly east of Gont are 
Perregal and Spevy, and there the map ends  :-( .  I seem to remember 
seeing The Hands on a map, so they must appear on one that's in an 
earlier book.

Amy Z
who wants to live on The Hands or in The Jaws . . . I did live in the 
Finger Lakes once




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon Jul 21 14:00:32 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:00:32 -0000
Subject: Saving Grace in JRRT (was Re: JKR, JRRT, & JC)
In-Reply-To: <bfgpm3+n96o@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfgrm0+1045h@eGroups.com>


> Naama wrote:
> 
> > Isn't the 
> > whole point of grace that it is undeserved?
> 
Amy:

> Not for Jesus.  Jesus is God.  That's why I imagined that 
Christians 
> would not be much reassured by being told that Frodo is Christ.
> 
> If the story is instead interpreted as a tale of human temptation, 
> suffering, sacrifice, etc., then sure, that would be a good way to 
> resolve the problem.

Sure - I liked Naama's interpretation.  IMO it is hard to identify a 
Christ figure in LOTR, though Frodo, Gandalf and Aragorn all share 
elements.  Applicability, not allegory.  In the cycle as a whole 
Earendil fits much better, especially as he is in part of Valinorean 
descent.

IMO the troubling thing from the POV of many Christians would be the 
sense of progressive disengagement by God through time (or, 
alternatively, progressive realisation by his emissaries that they 
ought not to have engaged).

The Valar made a doubtful (IIRC) choice to enter the world, they made 
a later-regretted choice to call the elves to Valinor, they later 
broke away in the bending of the world.  The Istari are given far 
fewer powers, but still have an 80% failure rate.  The Eldar, who 
represent primordial divinity, are leaving and the world is being 
given over to men.  It's a wonder really that any sort of happy 
ending at all can happen, so determined is Tolkien that the the 
future is all downhill and, if things are good, they are so because 
at times they remind you a bit of the past.

One can speculate that Tolkien's 'ideal' god is Bombadil, who has 
apparently limitless power, but has restricted himself to a small 
garden where he does little but allow nature to take its course: 
Tolkien inventing the nature reserve some decades before its time.

Against this backdrop the way that the end of LOTR is troubling is 
that Gollum's intervention is so accidental, so chancy.  It may be 
divine intervention but it is by pool table bounces, not 
incarnation.  (That Gollum is evil is pure Tolkien - remember how in 
the Ainulindale the most sterile notes of the competitive playing of 
Melkor's followers are taken up to add to the glory of the music as a 
whole - and is IMO not un-Christian at all.)

David




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon Jul 21 14:11:07 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:11:07 -0000
Subject: Kargad lands (was Self-contained worlds)
In-Reply-To: <bfgqf0+avi8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfgs9r+n361@eGroups.com>

Amy wrote:
> I'm sure the British publishers have not taken liberties, but the 
> American publishers have run a map titled "The Inner Lands of 
> Earthsea," on which the only islands directly east of Gont are 
> Perregal and Spevy, and there the map ends  :-( .  I seem to 
remember 
> seeing The Hands on a map, so they must appear on one that's in an 
> earlier book.

UKLG's official website has two versions - small but blurry, and 
sharp but huge:

http://www.ursulakleguin.com/UKL_info.html

David




From marilyn at gtf.org  Mon Jul 21 17:24:56 2003
From: marilyn at gtf.org (Marilyn )
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:24:56 -0000
Subject: Hogwarts scarves, etc.
In-Reply-To: <bffcm3+aers@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfh7l8+l4hd@eGroups.com>

grindieloe wrote:
ashwinder99 wrote:
> > I was looking at some of the pictures from Nimbus-2003 and was 
> > reminded how much I really want a Slytherin scarf. I've seen them 
> > before but I have no idea where to find them, or any other 
> > Hogwarts attire for that matter... So if anybody knows, it would 
> > be really helpful. 
> 
> I know that many places that have Griffindor scarves, but the only 
> place I've seen Slytherin scarves is at www.hpwizardstore.com.
> 
> You can check www.wbshop.com and www.orderofmerlin.com also, but 
> I'm pretty sure they only have Griffindor ones... :)

One other site which specializes in all the knitted HP garments is 
http://knit.atypically.net/, though Lauren, who runs it, is not going 
to start taking orders again until August or so.  But if you want to 
learn how to knit, she also has the patterns available!  I got 
the pattern from her, and made my own Slytherin scarf, which I love a 
lot.  It only took about... a month of knitting while I watched TV.  
A bunch of nights, but it's a very nice thing to have!

Good luck!
--marilyn




From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 21 20:28:05 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:28:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 154th on VH1's "200 Greatest Pop Culture Icons"
Message-ID: <20030721202805.52600.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com>

VH1 has ranked HP as 154th in its list of 
"200 Greatest Pop Culture Icons."  The 
segment that would include HP should be 
the following:

Tuesday, 7/22, 9:00 p.m.      # 160-141
(pls. check local listings!)

According to VH1's press release, People 
Magazine has published a collector's book 
featuring this list.

You can read the press release (which 
includes the entire list of 200) at:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030721/nym132_1.html

We just may be a teensy bit biased and I 
would hate to start a "my icon is better 
than your icon" contest...but

...where would YOU have placed HP on this list?

Petra
a
n  :)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com



From Malady579 at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 21 21:40:34 2003
From: Malady579 at hotmail.com (Melody)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:40:34 -0000
Subject: Nimbus envy
In-Reply-To: <bf44b8+97jo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfhmki+ms9o@eGroups.com>

Alora asked:
> For those of us not going to Nimbus, will there be anyone going that 
> can give us a daily update...or something??  I can't be there, but I 
> sure would like to know what is going on and how great it is.  And 
> pictures?  PLEASE?  *tries to sound really pathetic*


Well, my pictures are not sent in to be developed yet (yes, I still
use an old fashion *film* camera. ::grin::) but I can tell you what I
did there.  If you still want to hear.  

I went to Nimbus because one of my online friends here on the site
asked...no rather begged for us to come.  I am could not resist the
puppy eyes, so I said yes.  I did not really want to go for the
lectures, but more to meet the people I had chatted with for a year
and never seen their face.  Nothing like having to adjust your mental
image of a person.  Quite fun.

So I flew out Thursday morning from DFW and landed in Orlando.  Got
picked up by the Mears Night Bus (not purple but had a fetching felt
sign) and went off to Nimbus with a bunch of girls already in robes. 
Given that our bus trip had about two guys, I had a feeling this
conference might be a bit heavy on the girls.  Also more high
schoolers than I am use to as well, which also was amusing at times. 
I am spoiled to HPfGU and am not use to the giggly, blushing, cat
calling of high school girls.  They were great for the entertainment
factor though. 

We got our toothbrush and hot chocolate (still in powder since it is
after all quite hot in the South right now) and arrived.  First things
I saw off the bus was Gail B in her maroon brocade dress robes with
Lilac is her lilac satin dress robes both with matching hats.  Some
how seeing them framed in the doorway of the Swan was so fitting and
perfect.  Oh and Gail made both of the robes, and they were amazing. 
I was rooming with both of them and Frankie, so I was glad to see them.  

Anyway, to speed this up a bit.  The weekend went very well I thought.
 I went to three lectures.  One on...um...something...I really did not
like the first one I went to.  The second was on evil and HP, I loved
that one but it was presented by a professor who is one of those cool
professors with the stately voice and had something actually
interesting to say.  Also you can tell he was use to having to hold an
audiences attention.  The third lecture was Dicey's.  She read a tbay
she had written recently, and I do not want to give it all away in
cause she wants to post it, but what really made it cool was that we
could here how she "voices" the characters.  It was fun to hear her
versions of Captain Cindy, Elkins, herself, and her Stone!Harry.  I
*loved* that.  

So that was the "educational" stuff I did.  The Snape panel and
Shipping panel between H/H and R/H were packed I heard.  Everywhere
was Slash fans and FanFic fans.  Out of HPfGU, I managed to met and
see Gail B, Lilac, Frankie, Caius, Haggridd, Marina, Meg D, Gwen,
Heidi, Pippin, Catlady, Judy Serenity, Dicentra, and someone else I am
forgetting.  Sorry.  I saw Lexicon Steve but never officially met him.  

Since I was rooming with Gail and Lilac, our room was the official
filking room.  We had Toadie award there as well.  Gail had a notebook
three inches thick *at least* with filks.  Some hers, some other's she
had printed.  The filkers sat up Friday night singing many of them
acappella for each other.  I found it amazing that all the filkers had
nice voices.  The best though was when the filkers took over the
karaoke lounge in our hotel Saturday night.  Nothing like seeing Caius
get up on stage and get so excited about filks.  I tell you, he is
*adorable* about filks.  His eyes all light up.  You can tell why he
runs that site of his with such zeal.  Really, all the filkers love
what they do and are so helpful to each other and supportive.  

I mostly avoided the fan fic portions of Nimbus.  It is not my cup of
tea, but Nimbus seemed to give them what they wanted.  I spent my time
with Frankie doing the Nimbus Quest which was a series of logic/word
problems and ended with a scavenger hunt.  We had a blast and hooked
up with these two fairly young but not high school age girls, one with
cute pink hair in pigtails, and lo and behold...we won.  Teehee.  Not
sure how, but we managed it.

Nimbus was quite top heavy with girls.  What guys were there seemed to
fall in three categories.  Married.  Gay.  Or *weird*.  Yes, there
were a few odd people there that just...well...you wonder if they came
for HP or for the fact there were about 500 young girls there.  Most
in the Hogwarts school skirt too.  I found the fact there were so many
girls amusing though given that Harry is a boy and all.  Well, maybe
just the obsessed fans are all girls.  :P

Oh, the ones that dressed up were so cute and varied.  Ranged from the
full-blown robes to just the scarf and a pin.  What amazed me was how
each house was represented in costume.  There were about as many
Slytherins as Gryffindors.  A few less Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw, but
they were there.  We had house pictures on Saturday, and there was
this one girl as the designated Draco.  She crashed the Gryffindor
picture quite amusingly with her friend dressed as Snape complete with
a nappy, greasy wig.  They were quite in character and it really was
cute.  Oh, we had five Snapes, and *good* Snapes too.  A few McG's. 
No Dumbledore.  They did have this wonderful McG hat just like the
movie on sale there.  

Oh the Cumplusieve Alley was very nicely done.  A few booths of very
nice, but very expensive, robes and cloaks.  A Border's booth.  A HP
merchandise booth with tons of stuff.  They even had a Fred and George
medical bag.  I found that a cute idea.  A magic school booth.  There
were two wand booths with very nice wands.  I pick up one to replace
my basic dowel rod wand I lost the first day.  ::Sniff::  I really
liked my homespun wand, but this new one is pretty.  And actually
stained.  ::grin::

One of the funniest moments for me was watching the movies with a room
full of...well...hormone crazed girls.  They had the movie projected
on a big screen and everyone was sitting around in their pj's and
sleeping bags.  A few even had the purple squashy kind.  But, I swear,
those girls cooed at *everything* thing.  The catcalls were
particularly amusing and often related to Slash comments between
characters or what that particular girl wanted to *do* to that
character.  I would list some here, but it might be a bit offensive. 
They were funny though, and very...eh...enlightening.

Really, I found Nimbus to be quite a lot of fun.  I was a bit nervous
before I left wondering if I made the right decision, but I think I
did.  No event is perfect, and Nimbus had its rough spots, but I
thought they pulled it off well.  I met quite a few people from HPfGU
and felt like the HP fandom is quite all right.  A bunch of lusty,
giggling girls maybe, but all right nonetheless.  


Melody





From joym999 at aol.com  Tue Jul 22 00:40:45 2003
From: joym999 at aol.com (joywitch_m_curmudgeon)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 00:40:45 -0000
Subject: 154th on VH1's "200 Greatest Pop Culture Icons"
In-Reply-To: <20030721202805.52600.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bfi16d+fbqq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Petra Pan <ms_petra_pan at y...> 
wrote:
> VH1 has ranked HP as 154th in its list of 
> "200 Greatest Pop Culture Icons

This is the stupidest list I've ever seen.  OK, it's a list of 
*American* icons, so then how, exactly, does Princess Diana rate #9?  
Just because she died?   And Oprah is the #1 pop culture icon? 
Yeesh.  I can understand the Beatles and the Stones being up there 
even though they're British, with all their influence on the U.S., 
but Brad Pitt?  Nicole Kidman?  Arnold Schwarzenegger?  Katherine 
Hepburn, Audrey Hepburn, Grace Kelly, various Kennedys, I can 
understand.  Bruce Springsteen, of course.  But Will Smith?  Justin 
Timberlake is #112 and Alfred Hitchcock is #113?  I suppose we should 
be grateful that Monica Lewinsky scored even lower than Harry, 
although the fact that she is immediately followed by Leonard Nimoy 
and then Liberace is more than a little disturbing.

Who makes this moronic list, anyway?

</rant>

> ...where would YOU have placed HP on this list?

Much, much higher obviously, but not as high as Bruce. Maybe #2. 
Sorry.

--Joywitch




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 22 00:49:55 2003
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 00:49:55 -0000
Subject: Self-contained worlds (was The proximity of the Potterverse)
In-Reply-To: <bfga81+ejfc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfi1nj+n7sr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Dan Feeney" <dark30 at v...> 
wrote:

<snip extremely compelling post to get to a parenthetical remark:>

>(Sometimes, I think, some of us think that we are 
> participating in his liberation from helplessness just by reading 
the 
> books! Isn't that odd, that we feel that way, or that I should 
think 
> that we think this way?)

Annemehr:
I think you hit the nail right on the head.  It *does* feel 
extremely important that I read these books, and not just because I 
want to find out what happens next.  Hmmm...
> 
> This has become a ramble, sorry, and almost main list stuff. The 
> point was, I agree that what Rowling has done is unique - I was 
just 
> trying to parse WHY and HOW it is unique. Wherever Rowling was at 
the 
> time she had her vision, wherever she was mentally, that is, the 
> train became a symbol. Hogwarts is her way out, and Harry's. 
> 
> More some other time.
> 
> dan

Keep parsing, please!  This is as good a time as any to say that I 
feel much the same resonance with the books as you seem to, and I 
have been really interested in your posts.  I probably won't reply 
to many because I can't add anything to them, but I am reading!

Annemehr
hoping this "me too" post is okay for OTC,
and thinking that Hogwarts does seem to be *my* way out, too -- 
could that be why I want Harry to live in the end?




From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 22 01:18:59 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:18:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 154th on VH1's "200 Greatest Pop Culture Icons"
In-Reply-To: <bfi16d+fbqq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030722011859.46212.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com>

Joywitch (that'd be the self-proclaimed 
curmudgeon, right? <g>) rants:

> This is the stupidest list I've ever seen.

<snip>

> Who makes this moronic list, anyway?

A darn good guess would be "VH1."  <eg>

This self-proclaimed cynic would like to 
note that most of the lists of this kind 
is published with at least some hope of 
provoking discussions, heated debates, and 
well, rants.  Thus sales to (or at least 
attention from) those who like to discuss, 
debate, and/or rant...

Petra
a
n  :)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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From joym999 at aol.com  Tue Jul 22 02:02:26 2003
From: joym999 at aol.com (joywitch_m_curmudgeon)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 02:02:26 -0000
Subject: Self-contained worlds (was The proximity of the Potterverse)
In-Reply-To: <bfga81+ejfc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfi5vi+54t1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Dan Feeney" <dark30 at v...> 
wrote:

> And in Rowling, the muggle world, especially as it 
> is represented by the Dursley's, is fantastic, but the witch wizard 
> world is much more realistic. Interesting inversion, don't you 
think?

Interesting point, Dan.  I think it's true that in some ways JKR's 
wizarding world *is* much more believeable than her muggle world.  I 
think that her muggle world is basically a literary tribute, e.g. 
Harry's resilence in the face of his loveless muggle upbringing is 
Jane Eyre reference and the Dursleys themselves are a Roald Dahl 
reference.  And the wizarding world seems to be not only more 
realistic than the muggle world, but almost a satire of the real 
world.  I wonder if this is self-conscious on JKR's part?

--Joywitch




From catlady at wicca.net  Tue Jul 22 03:17:40 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 03:17:40 -0000
Subject: anti-witchcraft
In-Reply-To: <bf8npr+icg0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfiack+1ekg@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Amy Z" <lupinesque at y...> 
wrote:

> Of course!  But again, there is a very simplistic interpretation in 
> some popular Christianity:  magic, wizard = witchcraft = bad.  Just 
> try to tell most American fundamentalist Christians that Wicca is 
> about healing, living in harmony with all things,  and praising the 
> spiritual realm, and see how far you get.  Wicca =must= be bad 
> because it gives a positive valuation to the words "magic," 
> "witches," and "witchcraft."  The insistence by Wicca[n]s that they
> share the basic Christian values is too often interpreted as one of 
> the snares of the devil, and the possibility that what they 
> practice [is not] the witchcraft condemned by the Bible is
> dismissed because of the magic ;-) words.

I thought they hated us because <we taunt them about being stupid 
bigots> <no, I didn't say that> 1) very, very few of us have accepted 
Jesus Christ as our personal savior and 2) none of us believe that 
the only way a human can avoid eternal torture in Hell is to accept 
Jesus Christ as personal savior AND the only valid god -- we continue 
to worship many other perfectly real gods (my favorite is Bast), 
3) we pointedly disagree with their anti-sex attitude (cf. previous 
parenthesis).




From dark30 at vcn.bc.ca  Tue Jul 22 03:26:46 2003
From: dark30 at vcn.bc.ca (Dan Feeney)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 03:26:46 -0000
Subject: Self-contained worlds (was The proximity of the Potterverse)
In-Reply-To: <bfi5vi+54t1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfiatm+73u3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "joywitch_m_curmudgeon" 
<joym999 at a...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Dan Feeney" <dark30 at v...> 
> wrote:
> 
> > And in Rowling, the muggle world, especially as it 
> > is represented by the Dursley's, is fantastic, but the witch 
wizard 
> > world is much more realistic. Interesting inversion, don't you 
> think?
> 
--Joywitch:
> Interesting point, Dan.  I think it's true that in some ways JKR's 
> wizarding world *is* much more believeable than her muggle world.  
I 
> think that her muggle world is basically a literary tribute, e.g. 
> Harry's resilence in the face of his loveless muggle upbringing is 
> Jane Eyre reference and the Dursleys themselves are a Roald Dahl 
> reference.  And the wizarding world seems to be not only more 
> realistic than the muggle world, but almost a satire of the real 
> world.  I wonder if this is self-conscious on JKR's part?

I have no doubt it is self-conscious. Rowling's comments on her life 
are telling, in this case, regarding financial duress, in particular. 
There is motivation, the desire to create something, to get out of a 
trying situation etc. etc. But, unless we believe in divine 
inspiration (which I don't) then the moment on the train from 
Manchester to London is a something we've all experienced, to one 
degree or another. The first time we realize we are being self-
reflective,is an example of the kind of moment. "Oh, I'm thinking, 
and watching (feeling) myself think!" What makes me posit the boy in 
the closet is what's in that moment, what we guess was there, by the 
results, by the story told in the books. It COULD have gone something 
like this for Rowling - "Hell, I feel exactly like that kid I knew, 
just as crazy, just as chained... I refuse to accept there is no way 
out..."

Are the books her salvation, or rather, her freedom? Well, literally, 
yes. But we, as critics, see it on another plane, as it were, not so 
different from Hans of the Alchemic Wedding on the main list, or, in 
a different but no less involved way, MAGIC DISHWASHER. If Rowling's 
moment did not include the real politic,either at that moment or 
later, in the execution (the writing), and I for one assume it does, 
then our fascination with the books would be unjustified, and Byatt 
would be completely correct. After all, the history of alchemy, of 
the power of symbol, and the reconstruction of reality, is pretty 
subversive too, though, to be fair, more often than not leading to 
quite reactionary and elitist ideals. (That is to say, if Rowling is 
indeed subversive, perhaps she is just as subversive toward the 
practise of alchemy.) The Boston Phoenix article (I forget the 
author) that called Rowling subversive is our key here. She subverts 
on the most basic level by placing our non-magical world as 
fantastic, then she subverts by making the stigmatized or the odd far 
more rational and humane, far more practicable, than the so-
called "normal". She subverts by making magic pedestrian.This is 
the "bewitched" complaint. Is she different from Bewitched? Well, it 
appears some critics "see no difference." We, however, know otherwise.

On these three planes, I absolutely believe Rowling is 
consciously inverting things. Beyond that, I'm not certain, since all 
the interviews she's given have been done on popular media, conducted 
by, frankly, pretty banal hosts, asking glaringly insipid questions.

I have suggested Rowling's responsibility is to free the boy in the 
closet - if I didn't get the sense that that is what in fact she is 
doing in the books, I wouldn't have suggested it. But it was wrong to 
say, in a way. I should rather say, I think that is what she is 
doing. And it won't be possible to free the boy unless the subversion 
extends beyond the spheres I've mentioned. We are at a point in the 
series were we understand that we know absolutely nothing about what 
to do NOW. Maybe the story "being told by his glasses" or "in a 
pensieve" is coming, but it doesn't answer the question. Maybe the 
MAGIC DISHWASHER is running, but it doesn't answer the question. The 
boy has to walk.It's not magic falling away, but the idea that it's 
anything he knows now, anything he (or we) are holding onto, that 
will accomplish the final inversion.

my guess, anyway




From wgouine1 at mac.com  Tue Jul 22 13:31:01 2003
From: wgouine1 at mac.com (Peter Paul)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:31:01 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Self-contained worlds (was The proximity of the Potterverse)
In-Reply-To: <bfiatm+73u3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <BC3A7088-BC48-11D7-B44C-0003935103DC@mac.com>


On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 11:26  PM, Dan Feeney wrote:

> She subverts by making magic pedestrian.

It is comments like these that keep my stay at home Mom brain from 
completeing forgetting my lit major brain.  Thank You.


Blessed are the flexible, for they shall not be bent out of shape.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From terryljames at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 22 14:04:44 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:04:44 -0500
Subject: anti-witchcraft 
Message-ID: <BAY8-F11504VwnDwMHI0000d255@hotmail.com>


>From: "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" <catlady at wicca.net>

>I thought they hated us because <we taunt them about being stupid
>bigots> <no, I didn't say that> >

I've said it before and I'll say it again--"real" Christians don't hate 
people.  By "real" I mean people who are actually sincerely trying to follow 
the teachings of Christ, not just people who believe that he existed and go 
to church every once in a while.  "Real" Christians don't hate witches, 
homosexuals, black people if they're white, white people if they're black, 
Democrats, welfare moms, deadbeat dads, or any of the other groups that they 
are constantly accused of bashing.  "Real" Christians honestly try to treat 
everyone the same.

Of course, nobody's perfect.  There are a lot of people I don't personally 
like, but it's because of personality conflict (sadly, usually my 
personality), not because they are (fill in group of your choice).  I try 
not to generalize on the basis of group identity.  It would be nice if 
everyone could try to do that.

Don't you know people who claim to be witches or Wiccans, but whose behavior 
makes you wish that they didn't claim that?  Every group has them.

And since you didn't <say> you are taunting Christians about being stupid 
bigots, I won't respond to that part. :)

On another topic: Dan (I think it's Dan), your posts have twisted my brain, 
something it's been badly in need of.  I hope to respond when I can get my 
thoughts into coherent order.  In the meantime, please post more of your 
ideas--I'm really enjoying them!


Terry LJ

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus




From Erika-Harrison at cfl.rr.com  Tue Jul 22 15:16:43 2003
From: Erika-Harrison at cfl.rr.com (erikah32905)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:16:43 -0000
Subject: Teachers & HP
In-Reply-To: <bff4bm+40dp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfjkgr+1kkv@eGroups.com>

In reply to your question about HP fans and teachers...I am part of 
a group of homeschooling parents.  Our kids have just been accepted 
to attend Hogwarts via Correspondance Courses. It's too easy to 
create their whole curriculum based on the HP theme.

Erika




From terryljames at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 22 16:04:03 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:04:03 -0500
Subject: PDA Questions
Message-ID: <BAY8-F50WnI8WocsEB800032eb9@hotmail.com>

Here's something really OT:  it's been suggested that I get a handheld PDA 
thingy--like a Handspring or Palm or something--to download e-mail and text 
from the net and peruse it at my leisure.  Being technologically challenged, 
I would like recommendations.

I thought PDA's were basically glorified address books and to-do lists.  I 
could really use this, especially as I understand they sync with your 
desktop for Microsoft Exchange.  But I want word-processing capability as 
well.   Do they come with word-processing software also, or is that 
available to download (free, or for a charge?)

Is anybody using one that would be willing to enlighten me a bit about it?  
What are your recommendations?

Thanks!

Terry LJ

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 22 19:46:19 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:46:19 -0000
Subject: Self-contained worlds (was The proximity of the Potterverse)
In-Reply-To: <bfi1nj+n7sr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfk4ab+nir5@eGroups.com>

Very interesting post, Dan . . . please ramble some more.  And yet 
another voice in my ear telling me to read Bleak House.  OK!  OK!  
I'm reading!

Annemehr wrote:

>thinking that Hogwarts does seem to be *my* way out, too -- 
> could that be why I want Harry to live in the end?

I feel that way too.  Now that I think about it, Harry's leaving 
Hogwarts would be almost as painful to read as his dying.  I probably 
won't be truly happy unless he becomes a professor and stays there.  
I know one thing--when the enormous oak doors close behind him, I'm 
planning to stay on their inside side.  Bye, Harry!  Have a good 
time!  See you at reunion!

Amy Z




From psychic_serpent at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 22 20:48:52 2003
From: psychic_serpent at yahoo.com (psychic_serpent)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:48:52 -0000
Subject: anti-witchcraft
In-Reply-To: <BAY8-F11504VwnDwMHI0000d255@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bfk7vk+55v1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Terry James" 
<terryljames at h...> wrote:
 
> I've said it before and I'll say it again--"real" Christians don't 
> hate people.  By "real" I mean people who are actually sincerely 
> trying to follow the teachings of Christ, not just people who 
> believe that he existed and go to church every once in a 
> while.  "Real" Christians don't hate witches, homosexuals, black 
> people if they're white, white people if they're black, 
> Democrats, welfare moms, deadbeat dads, or any of the other groups 
> that they are constantly accused of bashing.  "Real" Christians 
> honestly try to treat everyone the same.

As much as I agree with many of the things you say above, it's worth 
noting that it is very dicey in a forum of this nature to claim to 
know how to define "real" Christians, "real" Jews, "real" 
Catholics, "real" vegetarians, "real" anything.  Please qualify your 
opinions.  What you seem to be saying is that as far as you are 
concerned this is what it means to be a Christian, etc. etc.  My 
husband and I have to deal all of the time with people who believe 
they are the "real" Christians, Presbyterians, Methodists, 
Americans, etc.  You name it.  (You might be interested in going to 
our organizational website at http://iwgonline.org .)  Most of them, 
if not all, when stating their explicit beliefs, are of the opposite 
opinion from you on nearly everything you have listed above.

Suffice to say that loads of people consider themselves to be "real" 
Christians while not subscribing to all of the things you mention, 
and it is their right to do so just as it is your right to do so.  
But please find a different way to put an opinion of this sort on 
this list, such as, "To me, being a Christian means..."  That is 
clearly your opinion.  To state that a "real" Christian is a person 
holding a certain set of beliefs is to state an opinion as if it is 
a fact, something which we prefer people not to do either on the 
main list or here.

The next thing you know, people will be trying to define a "real"  
HP fan...Ooh, trouble. <g>

Thanks for understanding.

--Barb AKA Babsgeist

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychic_Serpent
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb





From jesmck at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 22 21:44:10 2003
From: jesmck at yahoo.com (jesmck)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:44:10 -0000
Subject: PDA Questions
In-Reply-To: <BAY8-F50WnI8WocsEB800032eb9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bfkb7a+80jr@eGroups.com>

Hi everyone, this is my first post.

I have a Palm m515 that I love.  I used to have a Handspring, but they
don't make straight PDAs anymore, they only make combination cell
phone/PDAs. There are also Pocket PCs that are a bit more expensive
but they are more like mini-computers and have Pocket versions of MS
Office. Dell makes a good one that's fairly inexpensive (for a Pocket
PC anyway).

I use mine mostly for playing games and Vindigo, which kind of like a
night life guide, but a whole lot more.

jessica

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Terry James"
<terryljames at h...> wrote:
> Here's something really OT:  it's been suggested that I get a
handheld PDA 
> thingy--like a Handspring or Palm or something--to download e-mail
and text 
> from the net and peruse it at my leisure.  Being technologically
challenged, 
> I would like recommendations.
> 
> I thought PDA's were basically glorified address books and to-do
lists.  I 
> could really use this, especially as I understand they sync with your 
> desktop for Microsoft Exchange.  But I want word-processing
capability as 
> well.   Do they come with word-processing software also, or is that 
> available to download (free, or for a charge?)
> 
> Is anybody using one that would be willing to enlighten me a bit
about it?  
> What are your recommendations?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Terry LJ
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*  
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail




From hebrideanblack at earthlink.net  Tue Jul 22 23:09:23 2003
From: hebrideanblack at earthlink.net (Wendy St John)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:09:23 -0700
Subject: NY-Times Spoiler
Message-ID: <410-22003722223923481@earthlink.net>


Hi, Everyone,

A question occurred to me a minute ago when I read a mention of the NY
Times (in another context). A short while before the release of OoP, I
remember hearing that the Times had printed a spoiler, and I worked very
hard to AVOID hearing just what the spoiler was before reading the book for
myself. I was so paranoid (Constant Vigilance!) that I didn't even go to
the bookstore myself - I made my husband go and pick up my copy of the
book. I was afraid that some bozo in front of me would buy the book, turn
to the end, and scream out "Wow! Hagrid's the one who dies" (Or whatever.
Obviously *my* theory about "the death" turned out to be wrong). 

Well, I managed to avoid spoilers (except the huge "someone will die" one
which nearly everyone knew). Now I'm curious - just what *was* the spoiler
printed in the NY Times. Does anyone here know?

Thanks! 

Wendy St John
hebrideanblack at earthlink.net







From Malady579 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 23 02:04:12 2003
From: Malady579 at hotmail.com (Melody)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 02:04:12 -0000
Subject: Nimbus envy 
In-Reply-To: <bfhmki+ms9o@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfkqes+h9cs@eGroups.com>

I wrote:
>Out of HPfGU, I managed to met and see Gail B, Lilac, Frankie, Caius,
>Haggridd, Marina, Meg D, Gwen, Heidi, Pippin, Catlady, Judy Serenity,
>Dicentra, and someone else I am forgetting. 


Oh dear.  I just remembered who else it was that I met at Nimbus.  

Phyllis.

I am *so* sorry, girl.  I met you so often I guess it felt like they
were suppose to know that.  Sorry, Phyllis.  It was nice to met and
see you.  I promise.  :)


Melody
who is blushing quite pink right now




From bboy_mn at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 02:17:49 2003
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 02:17:49 -0000
Subject: Thinking of moving to England?
Message-ID: <bfkr8d+6utf@eGroups.com>

I don't know if any of you are aware of this but number 4 Privet Drive
is for sale. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/tv_film/newsid_3087000/3087705.stm

Of course, it's not really in Little Whinging, it's in Picket Post
Close in Bracknell, Berkshire.

I'm under the impression that the interiors are studio interiors, so
we really haven't seen the inside, but one could assume that the
studio set are a reasonable approximation of the house.

So, now we've real estate tour of the house, of sorts, and have a
general sense of the size and funishings.

So, if you are having fantasies about moving to England keep in mind
that the house is one the market for ?250,000 or approx. US$400,000.
That's not much house for $400,000. 

I will admit that I am not sure how much the price has been inflated
to take advantage of it's connection to the HP movie.

Just passing it on.

bboy_mn





From terryljames at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 23 02:28:30 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:28:30 -0500
Subject: Opinions and a "real" HP fan.  
Message-ID: <BAY8-F92R7j1HaKtKuf00000208@hotmail.com>




>From: "psychic_serpent" <psychic_serpent at yahoo.com>
>But please find a different way to put an opinion of this sort on
>this list, such as, "To me, being a Christian means..."  That is
>clearly your opinion.  To state that a "real" Christian is a person
>holding a certain set of beliefs is to state an opinion as if it is
>a fact, something which we prefer people not to do either on the
>main list or here.

OK, sorry.  I just figured that anything I write would be automatically 
assumed to be my opinion.
.
Let me clarify, then:  _To me_, anybody who could read the account of 
Christ's life and his instructions, and somehow get the idea that you have a 
God-given right to hate and persecute those who do not believe exactly as 
you do, is in dire need of a remedial-reading-comprehension course.

>The next thing you know, people will be trying to define a "real"
>HP fan...Ooh, trouble. <g>

OK, always up for trouble:

A "real" HP fan: can find "applicability" (for the Tolkien people) in HP for 
anything, ranging from such diverse styles as the Bible to Smallville (where 
I just found prototype!Redeemable!Draco).

A "real" HP fan: buys the hard-back nice books for herself, and the cheapie 
paperbacks for her kids.

A "real" HP fan: sees something 
interesting/disgusting/romantic/heartwrenching in RL and wonders how she can 
fit it into her next fanfic.

Come on, I know you guys can do better than that!  What's a real HP fan to 
you?

Terry LJ

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail




From dark30 at vcn.bc.ca  Wed Jul 23 03:15:38 2003
From: dark30 at vcn.bc.ca (Dan Feeney)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 03:15:38 -0000
Subject: Opinions and a "real" HP fan.
In-Reply-To: <BAY8-F92R7j1HaKtKuf00000208@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bfkukq+l5fk@eGroups.com>

<terryljames at h...> wrote:
> Come on, I know you guys can do better than that!  What's a real HP 
>fan to you?

Someone who is willing, before or after a long day at work, say, or 
looking after kids for hours on end, to read long posts composed of 
sentences with cadences oblique, and some split, as they say, 
infinitives, under the supposition that, somewhere, on some level, 
because the words appear in a list ostensibly devoted to HP, there is 
the possibility that the sentences or words will or may contain 
something even slightly interesting and related to, or not 
necessarily interesting but at least somehow related to, or perhaps 
only having the possibility of being forcibly made, by sheer will, to 
have something to say in relation to HP.

Someone who, in pretty much any discussion, finds relevant and 
illuminating passages from the 5 books, or general points. "Oh, 
Tarkovsky, yeah, it's funny but in some ways, reading Rowling is like 
experiencing a Tarkovsky film...." or "What colour do we want in the 
kitchen. Well, we can either take the Luna Lovegood approach or the 
Hermione Granger approach...." or "Yeah, great politician, except for 
that little drawback of having Karl Rove sticking out of the back of 
his head...."

I'm no good at this, but there's my two, yunno, things...

dan








From beyondtheveil20 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 03:22:52 2003
From: beyondtheveil20 at yahoo.com (beyondtheveil20)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 03:22:52 -0000
Subject: Coming out of the Lurking Closet 
Message-ID: <bfkv2c+kdhr@eGroups.com>

This is my very first post for any Harry Potter yahoo group, though I 
have been lurking forever. After hearing about how much fun Nimbus 
was, I decided it was about time to "come out of the closet," so to 
speak, and introduce myself. 

My name is Lyn, and I hail from the lovely states of Pennsylvania and 
Ohio. (I was born and raised in Pennsylvania, but I go to college in 
Ohio). I am obsessed with all things Harry Potter. 

When it comes to ships, I have absolutely no preference. I love 
fanfiction of any ship, so long as its good writing :) 

I'm beginning to write some fanfic, though I haven't posted anything 
yet. 

Oh, and I'm 20 years old. If you want, you can check out my lj 
(username: beyondtheveil20) 

Introduction finished :) 

I really hope that I did this right. Though I've lurked forever, I'm 
a little computer illiterate when it comes to the harry potter 
fandom. *blushes* 

Anyways, that's all. I hope I get to know some of you so that we may 
obsess about Harry Potter together :) 

Lyn aka beyondtheveil20 





From ajlboston at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 03:27:48 2003
From: ajlboston at yahoo.com (ajlboston)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 03:27:48 -0000
Subject: Hogwarts scarves, etc.
In-Reply-To: <bff9ks+7ocg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfkvbk+9542@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "ashwinder99" <ninth88 at a...> 
wrote:
> I was looking at some of the pictures from Nimbus-2003 and was 
> reminded how much I really want a Slytherin scarf. I've seen them 
> before but I have no idea where to find them, or any other Hogwarts 
> attire for that matter...

There are quite a few sources.  Somebody on Ebay hand knits them, and 
a company under Garb the World makes "Wizard Scarves" (not to violate 
copyright laws, I guess) in all colors.  Do a Google search and you 
shall find several versions.  

A.J.




From anneu53714 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 03:45:17 2003
From: anneu53714 at yahoo.com (Anne)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 03:45:17 -0000
Subject: Harry's "leaving" (was: Re: Self-contained worlds)
In-Reply-To: <bfk4ab+nir5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfl0cd+8e1q@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Amy Z" <lupinesque at y...> 
wrote:
> Very interesting post, Dan . . . please ramble some more.  And yet 
> another voice in my ear telling me to read Bleak House.  OK!  OK!  
> I'm reading!
> 
> Annemehr wrote:
> 
> >thinking that Hogwarts does seem to be *my* way out, too -- 
> > could that be why I want Harry to live in the end?
> 
> I feel that way too.  Now that I think about it, Harry's leaving 
> Hogwarts would be almost as painful to read as his dying.  I 
probably 
> won't be truly happy unless he becomes a professor and stays 
there.  
> I know one thing--when the enormous oak doors close behind him, I'm 
> planning to stay on their inside side.  Bye, Harry!  Have a good 
> time!  See you at reunion!


I will repeat what Steve bboy_mn wrote a number of months ago: If JKR 
kills Harry Potter, there will be a worldwide depression, and not the 
economic kind. You will see people of varying ages (even some grown-
ups, including me) crying in the streets. And it will last more than 
a few minutes, or hours, or days... I'm rooting for Harry to beat 
Voldy for good in book 7, and return to Hogwarts in the epilogue as 
the new, *permanent* DADA instructor :-)

Anne U
(who will not accept Dead!Harry, and hopes to hell that's not what 
happens)






From anneu53714 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 03:49:32 2003
From: anneu53714 at yahoo.com (Anne)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 03:49:32 -0000
Subject: NY-Times Spoiler
In-Reply-To: <410-22003722223923481@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <bfl0kc+a5to@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Wendy St John" 
<hebrideanblack at e...> wrote:
> 
> Hi, Everyone,
> 
> A question occurred to me a minute ago when I read a mention of the 
NY
> Times (in another context). A short while before the release of 
OoP, I
> remember hearing that the Times had printed a spoiler,

Actually Wendy, it was the New York Daily News (not the New York 
Times) that printed the spoiler and got in trouble with JKR, 
Bloomsbury and Scholastic because of it. But no, I never saw the 
spoiler, so I don't know exactly what they printed. Did anyone 
actually see what the NYDN actually wrote?

Anne U
(who was a good girl and avoided all the spoilers except for the dang 
Scholastic ones)





From cate at eyestar.net  Wed Jul 23 04:01:47 2003
From: cate at eyestar.net (Cate)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:01:47 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: NY-Times Spoiler
References: <bfl0kc+a5to@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000601c350cf$24edea50$e3a6e3d8@JAIME>

Anne:
Actually Wendy, it was the New York Daily News (not the New York
Times) that printed the spoiler and got in trouble with JKR,
Bloomsbury and Scholastic because of it. But no, I never saw the
spoiler, so I don't know exactly what they printed. Did anyone
actually see what the NYDN actually wrote?

Reply:
I remembered this but couldn't recall the details. A quick Google found this
article:
http://islandpacket.com/24hour/entertainment/story/921306p-6414956c.html
They bought a copy of the book from a health food store that illegally put
it out early and published two pages, pictures of them, anyway. The text of
the pages was readable. I'm not sure which two pages they were. I'm sure a
little more digging through the Google results could yield that information
if you really want to know. JK and the publishers sued the New York Daily
News to which they said they would vehemently defend themselves. I'm not
sure if there's been a resolution to the case or not yet.

Cate





From dark30 at vcn.bc.ca  Wed Jul 23 06:21:22 2003
From: dark30 at vcn.bc.ca (Dan Feeney)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:21:22 -0000
Subject: Harry's "leaving" (was: Re: Self-contained worlds)
In-Reply-To: <bfl0cd+8e1q@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfl9h2+1j6m@eGroups.com>

Anne:
I will repeat what Steve bboy_mn wrote a number of months ago: If JKR 
kills Harry Potter, there will be a worldwide depression, and not the 
economic kind. You will see people of varying ages (even some grown-
ups, including me) crying in the streets. And it will last more than 
a few minutes, or hours, or days... I'm rooting for Harry to beat 
Voldy for good in book 7, and return to Hogwarts in the epilogue as 
the new, *permanent* DADA instructor :-)

Oh, I almost dread to say anything more. Some thoughts running round 
my head. Margaret Atwood: "there are worse things yet than survival". 
AD: "there are worse things than death"  HP: "there are things more 
important that surviving"
I don't want HP to survive just cause people would be sad, or, to put 
it another way, I don't want a shallow compromise. If it's to be 
surival, it'll have to drop the bottom out of the world. And it can't 
be "lose magic" cause, as I've said elsewhere, Rowling's magic isn't 
Le Guin's, to use a striking example. Ged doesn't become pedestrian, 
losing magic, he's translated bodily, with Tenar, with Tehanu, with 
the help of Tehanu's "mark" if you will (her dragonness, her half-
face, and Kalessin, who isn't really her father but is her real 
father, as it were) into "purity". (They are, in a manner of 
speaking, tortured into so-called purity.) Such a translation is 
impossible in Rowling's muggle or witch wizard worlds - there's no 
world there to be translated to. Luna kinda hints at what would work 
in Rowling's world, think.
And the same regarding death. If it happens, it has to knock the 
bottom off of the world.

Wonder why I just had this funny idea about Ron's "thought" attack. 
What if it was Cassandra's brain. ~gleefully snickering~

dan




From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Wed Jul 23 06:27:43 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:27:43 -0000
Subject: PDA Questions
In-Reply-To: <BAY8-F50WnI8WocsEB800032eb9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bfl9sv+fgev@eGroups.com>

Terry asked:

> Here's something really OT:  it's been suggested that I get a 
>handheld PDA thingy--like a Handspring or Palm or something--to 
>download e-mail and text from the net and peruse it at my leisure.  
>Being technologically challenged, I would like recommendations.


Hey, Terry!

I'm technologically challenged as well, but I can help a bit on this 
one, I hope.

I have a Dell Axim, and I've been using it since December.  In 
short, I really love it.

I had a Palm before, but never used it.  I think the big difference 
was that the Dell can be trained to recognize your handwriting.  
With the Palm, I had to use Graffitti script to enter data.  
Graffitti is fine and easy to learn, but you do have to enter things 
one letter at a time.  With the Dell, I can just write "Swim meet at 
Stonegate" on the screen and the Dell translates it into text.  Much 
quicker.

There are drawbacks, though.  I understand that it is a bit of a 
battery hog compared to other PDAs.  But then again, it has Excel, 
Word and a bunch of other stuff.

Anyway, that's what I can contribute.  Good luck!

Cindy






From annemehr at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 06:34:06 2003
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:34:06 -0000
Subject: Opinions and a "real" HP fan.
In-Reply-To: <BAY8-F92R7j1HaKtKuf00000208@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bfla8u+gimr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Terry James" 
<terryljames at h...> wrote:

> OK, always up for trouble:
> 
> A "real" HP fan: can find "applicability" (for the Tolkien people) 
in HP for 
> anything, ranging from such diverse styles as the Bible to 
Smallville (where 
> I just found prototype!Redeemable!Draco).
> 
> A "real" HP fan: buys the hard-back nice books for herself, and 
the cheapie 
> paperbacks for her kids.
> 
> A "real" HP fan: sees something 
> interesting/disgusting/romantic/heartwrenching in RL and wonders 
how she can 
> fit it into her next fanfic.
> 
> Come on, I know you guys can do better than that!  What's a real 
HP fan to 
> you?
> 
> Terry LJ

A "real" HP fan has already decided to buy as many copies of book 7 
on release day as she has family members who feel the desperate need 
to read it *before* anyone blabs the ending.  (We're up to 3 so far.)

A "real" HP fan loses sleep worrying about her favorite characters.

A "real" HP fan brings up the subject of "Harry Potter" when in the 
company of other adults just to see if she can find another true fan 
(not much luck so far -- thank goodness for HPfGU).

Annemehr





From annemehr at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 06:57:47 2003
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:57:47 -0000
Subject: Harry's "leaving" (was: Re: Self-contained worlds)
In-Reply-To: <bfl9h2+1j6m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bflblb+uujt@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Dan Feeney" <dark30 at v...> 
wrote:
<snip>
> 
> Oh, I almost dread to say anything more. Some thoughts running 
round 
> my head. Margaret Atwood: "there are worse things yet than 
survival". 
> AD: "there are worse things than death"  HP: "there are things 
more 
> important that surviving"
> I don't want HP to survive just cause people would be sad, or, to 
put 
> it another way, I don't want a shallow compromise. If it's to be 
> surival, it'll have to drop the bottom out of the world. 
<snip> 
> And the same regarding death. If it happens, it has to knock the 
> bottom off of the world.
<snip>

Ah, go on and say it, already!  I still don't really *want* him to 
die!

Just to get completely personal, a few posts back I said that 
Hogwarts felt like my way out, too (you know, in response to one of 
your posts).  Well, I am quite willingly reading these books to the 
very end, and in fact feel as though I'm actually participating in 
them in some way.  I have decided that I want to read all of this 
story, *whatever it turns out to be*.  This is going to mean, 
though, that whatever sacrifices Harry makes are also going to mean 
some sort of sacrifice on my own part.

Back to the story itself, though: Voldemort has caused misery for 
Harry pretty much continuously for almost all of his life.  I had 
always felt that it would be too much of a victory for V if at the 
end of all that he actually accomplished what he'd been trying to do 
all along, and finally killed Harry.  I was always hoping that Harry 
would live and have a chance to be "just Harry" for a while (say, 60 
or 100 years or so).  Then he could die.

I know.  There are things worse than death and better than living.  
But still, life is a good thing, and I hope Harry gets to live some.

Annemehr
who would like to be able to keep the mental image of a 28 year old 
Harry roughhousing on the lawn with several of his children... 




From nethilia at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 07:42:33 2003
From: nethilia at yahoo.com (Nethilia)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:42:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: VH1's so called "pop" icons....(was 154th on VH1's "200 Greatest Pop Culture Icons" )
In-Reply-To: <1058867403.534.21485.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030723074233.32485.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com>


> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Petra Pan
> <ms_petra_pan at y...> 
> wrote:
> > VH1 has ranked HP as 154th in its list of 
> > "200 Greatest Pop Culture Icons
> 
> This is the stupidest list I've ever seen.  OK, it's
> a list of 
> *American* icons, so then how, exactly, does
> Princess Diana rate #9?  
> Just because she died?   And Oprah is the #1 pop
> culture icon? 
> Yeesh.  I can understand the Beatles and the Stones
> being up there 
> even though they're British, with all their
> influence on the U.S., 
> but Brad Pitt?  Nicole Kidman?  Arnold
> Schwarzenegger?  Katherine 
> Hepburn, Audrey Hepburn, Grace Kelly, various
> Kennedys, I can 
> understand.  Bruce Springsteen, of course.  But Will
> Smith?  Justin 
> Timberlake is #112 and Alfred Hitchcock is #113?  I
> suppose we should 
> be grateful that Monica Lewinsky scored even lower
> than Harry, 
> although the fact that she is immediately followed
> by Leonard Nimoy 
> and then Liberace is more than a little disturbing.
> 
> Who makes this moronic list, anyway?
> 
> </rant>

Joywitch, I will have to agree with you about this
list beign stupid. I actually attempted to watch the
show, but since its on the same time that my grandma
watches TV I have been watching it late at night. But
now looking at the whole list, I have my own rants. 

Appropriately, my number one complaint is the ranking
of Number One. It should, by all logical sense, be
Mickey Mouse. Honestly, draw three circles in a
certain way and show it to ANYONE over the age of 2
and they know who it is. Oprah as number one? I'm
sorry, NO. No, No, A thousand times no. She might be a
prominent talk show host, but she does not outrank The
Mouse. This list is rigged! 

Secondly, the order of singers seems arbitrary at best
and completly stupid at worst. Britney Spears (and I
loathe her) outranking Tina Turner? Stevie Wonder
below P. Diddy? Frank Sinatra below, of ALL people,
*Jennifer Lopez*? Who wrote this list? I'm sorry,
recent people on the front page of People DO NOT
outrank singers that have been around when they were
still gleams in their respective mommies' eyes.

Thirdly (and lastly, at least so that this e-mail
doesn't get long), the whole list seems to be skewed
towards the genertaion of today and recent pop stars.
Now, I'm a member of said generation, but even I know
that this list is off. JFK Jr. should not outrank his
own MOTHER and FATHER. Princess Di, while beloved, is
not more prominent than Jackie Robinson, who broke the
color barrier in baseball (and professional sports
overall). She just died. I hate to be heartless, but
that's about the crux of it. I just ranted about the
singers. As for the actors--you're blowing smoke if
you expect me to think that the cast of Friends
outranks people like Clint Eastwood, Charlie Chaplin,
and Harrison Ford. 

> > ...where would YOU have placed HP on this list?
> 
> Much, much higher obviously, but not as high as
> Bruce. Maybe #2. 
> Sorry.

My top ten: 
1: Mickey Mouse. The most easily identifible creature
on the planet. No contest. Not having him #1 is lying
to yourself.

2: The Beatles. One of the great turning points of
music, pop culture, and just really neat hair. 
 
3: Bugs Bunny. Just as Identifiable as The Mouse, but
ranked lower than the Beatles. 

4: Spiderman. Making little skinny geeks everywhere
know that you too can make if if a spider bites you
and gives you superpowers.

5: Micheal Jackson. Love him or hate him, you know who
is he is. 

6: Bill Gates. He did revolutionize the way we use
computers. 

7: Marilyn Monroe. Who doesn't recognize the skirt
flying up on the grill? The Pretty Blonde that
Gentlemen Prefer? A kiss on the hand might be quite
continental....

8: Charlie Brown (and all his pals). The little round
blockhead who just couldn't get by, and his nutty dog
Snoopy.

9: Sigmund Freud. Come on, he's considered the father
of psychology (IIRC). He deserves a better position
than below Eminem. *rolls eyes* 

10: Mr. Rogers. A wonderful human being who taught
children everywhere to love themselves for who they
are. Again, a lambast to the list for putting such a
beloved human being below *snort* The OSBOURNES, for
Athene's sake. 

Harry Potter, while I love him, probably should be
around the mid to late 60s. But definately higher
than, of all blots in pop culture, Justin frigging
Timberlake. 

--Neth wants to find the makers of this list and hex them...

=====
http://www.spenecial.com
Spenecial*com. Two girls. One Website. Total Chaos.

"When I see a burning cross, the first thought in my head is most likely not, 'I could really go for a cold refreshing beverage right now!' "

__________________________________
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From june.diamanti at blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Jul 23 11:53:00 2003
From: june.diamanti at blueyonder.co.uk (junediamanti)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:53:00 -0000
Subject: Thinking of moving to England?
In-Reply-To: <bfkr8d+6utf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bflsus+io58@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboy_mn at y...> wrote:
> I don't know if any of you are aware of this but number 4 Privet 
Drive
> is for sale. 
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/tv_film/newsid_3087000/3087705.stm
> 
> Of course, it's not really in Little Whinging, it's in Picket Post
> Close in Bracknell, Berkshire.
> 
> I'm under the impression that the interiors are studio interiors, so
> we really haven't seen the inside, but one could assume that the
> studio set are a reasonable approximation of the house.
> 
> So, now we've real estate tour of the house, of sorts, and have a
> general sense of the size and funishings.
> 
> So, if you are having fantasies about moving to England keep in mind
> that the house is one the market for ?250,000 or approx. US$400,000.
> That's not much house for $400,000. 
> 
> I will admit that I am not sure how much the price has been inflated
> to take advantage of it's connection to the HP movie.
> 
> Just passing it on.
> 
> bboy_mn

That price is about the going rate for a small modern house in the SE 
England these days - if anything I'd say it was fairly on the cheap 
side - house prices have rocketed in the last 12 months.

I have to say, as a Brit who is more familiar with what the inside of 
those sort of houses look like, that the interior shots looked spot 
on to me.  Current building practice seems to dictate tiny poky 
rooms - the house in the movie is a very typical new housing 
development, where every house looks identical.  For once the film 
makers got the size and decor right too - fussy furnishings, 
wallpaper, millions of ornaments to dust.  I'll point out the 
film "Bridget Jones' Diary" where absolutely everyone seems to live 
in stately homes roughly the size and shape of Blenheim Palace.  Not! 
True!  Small and cluttered is more likely.  

June




From wgouine1 at mac.com  Wed Jul 23 13:06:47 2003
From: wgouine1 at mac.com (Peter Paul)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:06:47 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Opinions and a "real" HP fan.
In-Reply-To: <bfla8u+gimr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <842BD932-BD0E-11D7-B033-0003935103DC@mac.com>

LOTR is good but quite testosterone ridden.  Rowling's books are more 
multi gendered. But finding an adult who is willing/capable of 
discussing & comparing is to be celebrated; thankfully I have my 
sister,  my husband and two of his buddies who are literate in both 
"worlds". Please note the guys are really biased toward the JRRT

On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 02:34  AM, annemehr wrote:

> A "real" HP fan brings up the subject of "Harry Potter" when in the
> company of other adults just to see if she can find another true fan
> (not much luck so far -- thank goodness for HPfGU).
>

Constant Vigilance!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 19:35:34 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:35:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: NY-Times Spoiler
Message-ID: <20030723193534.22199.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com>

Wendy St John wondered:
> Now I'm curious - just what *was*
> the spoiler printed in the NY
> Times. Does anyone here know?

As Anne U has already mentioned, it 
was the NY Daily News as opposed to 
the NYT.  Being the compulsive <g>
News Niffler that I am, I had saved 
that article back then for future 
reference.  If you want, email me 
off list.

Petra
a
n  :)

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From catlady at wicca.net  Thu Jul 24 01:49:53 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 01:49:53 -0000
Subject: anti-witchcraft
In-Reply-To: <BAY8-F11504VwnDwMHI0000d255@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bfne01+bvek@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Terry James" 
<terryljames at h...> wrote:
> 
> >From: "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" <catlady at w...>
> 
> >I thought they hated us because <we taunt them about being stupid
> >bigots> <no, I didn't say that> >
> 
> Don't you know people who claim to be witches or Wiccans, but whose
> behavior makes you wish that they didn't claim that?  Every group 
> has them.
> 
Oh, yes. And I expect there are some Wiccans I admire (and some I 
don't) who feel just as unhappy about me being "out of the broom 
closet".

> I try not to generalize on the basis of group identity.  It would
> be nice if everyone could try to do that.
(snip) 
> And since you didn't <say> you are taunting Christians about being
> stupid bigots, I won't respond to that part. :)

I knew when I wrote that post, I ought to have put it through another 
draft before posting, but I was too curious to see what replies it 
would get. I knew I would have to apologise for carelessly giving 
the false impression that I think all Bible-based Christians hate 
Wiccans or are stupid or are bigots. On the contrary, I figured that 
all Christians on this list (and several have declared themselves to 
be religiously conservative) are intelligent and not bigots.

I think that *some* people who announce themselves to be Bible-based 
Christians hate Wiccans, and I was expressing doubt that their real 
reason was that the Bible says not to suffer a "witch" (translated 
word) to live. I think their real reason is the same as the 
self-proclaimed Christians whose 'public service' is to picket the 
funerals of gay men with signs that say "God Hates Fags" and "[name 
of the deceased] is in Hell". A combination of stupidity and not 
being willing to tolerate anyone who disagrees with them about any 
issue.




From kirst_inn at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Jul 24 03:08:01 2003
From: kirst_inn at yahoo.co.uk (Kirstini)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:08:01 -0000
Subject: Opinions and a "real" HP fan.
In-Reply-To: <842BD932-BD0E-11D7-B033-0003935103DC@mac.com>
Message-ID: <bfniih+tooc@eGroups.com>

A *real* HP fan 
- didn't waste time mucking about on the Warner Bros. site in the 
week following 20th of June, because they were a little more 
preoccupied with the moral implications of the Black Veil, thankyou 
very much. And besides, they'd already *seen* it all.

- finished their midnight-bought copy of the book half an hour before 
the postman turned up with the Amazon-ordered one.

- talks back at TMTMNBN, and throws things at the screen, 
screaming, "NO! NO-ONE THINKS THAT! IT'S ALL BEEN EDITED OUT!" when 
Tom Felton says "And people think *he's* the heir of Slytherin."

- can remember the name of every character, and doesn't pretend to 
have forgotten that "umm, whassisname that does the Quidditch 
commentary" is called Lee Jordan just in case their friends think 
they're a bit too keen.

- spends hours on end with their nose screwed up at the computer 
screen re-analysing the grabs of JKR's notebook in the light of OoP.

- is awakened when significant other realises that they've fallen 
asleep re-reading OoP for the tenth time, and that the weight of the 
book is prematurely ageing the reader's face.

- screamed "NOOOOOO! YOU CAN'T LET HIM DO THAT!" at the parents of 
the small boy who flicked open his copy of OoP at the last page 
whilst in the queue for the till.

Not that I want to give anyone the impression that I'm slightly 
unbalanced, or anything...
Kirstini




From crabtree at ktc.com  Thu Jul 24 07:54:00 2003
From: crabtree at ktc.com (Jo)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:54:00 -0000
Subject: Opinions and a "real" HP fan.
In-Reply-To: <bfniih+tooc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfo3ao+s3cv@eGroups.com>

A "real" Harry Potter fan, upon seeing another fan's key chain, 
says, "Cool snitch!" rather than saying, "What a cute angel ball!"

A "real" Harry Potter fan has typed a list of the members of 
Dumbledore's Army on parchment, changing the font for each individual 
to match his/her personality.

A "real" Harry Potter fan has to examine the family's much read OotP 
books for the most damage to decide which book will be taken to 
school for students to read when school resumes in August.

A "real" Harry Potter fan makes a side trip to the fabric department 
during every shopping trip to see what is new in stars and moons.

A "real" Harry Potter fan attends funerals and wonders how many of 
these people see thestrals.

A "real" Harry Potter fan doesn't have to ask for posters from local 
stores because everyone in town presumes the posters will be his/hers 
when they are taken down.

A "real" Harry Potter fan types a list of what makes a "real" Harry 
Potter fan at 2:30 a.m. when the alarm clock is going to ring at 5:30 
a.m. for work.

Professor Phlash




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 24 13:01:37 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:01:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Happy Birthday, Heather!
Message-ID: <20030724130137.11697.qmail@web41106.mail.yahoo.com>

*surveys the decorated room with satisfaction and
starts bringing in trays and trays of food*

Gather round, everyone. Help youself to goodies and
prepare for a party!

Today's birthday honouree is Heather. Birthday owls
can be sent care of this list or directly to:
hettick.1 at osu.edu

May your day be filled with fun, joy and much magic.

Happy Birthday, Heather!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf

=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From ression at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 24 16:15:48 2003
From: ression at hotmail.com (ER)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:15:48 -0000
Subject: Opinions and a "real" HP fan.
In-Reply-To: <bfo3ao+s3cv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfp0nk+1985@eGroups.com>

A Real Harry Potter Fan has several copies of OoP - their English 
copy, their American copy, a best copy, a reading copy and another 
reading copy in case the first should spontaneously combust at an 
inopportune moment. And an emergency spare copy.

A Real Harry Potter Fan lies awake at nights, worrying that there is 
an MI5/CIA plot to assassinate Jo before she reveals any more about 
the Ministry of Magic.

A Real Harry Potter Fan has a wand of dowel, with a core of dowel, 
lovingly fashioned by the spotty seventeen-year-old WandGiver at Home 
Depot.

A Real Harry Potter Fan doesn't fumble for their keys when they get 
home, they just say "Alohomora". And then fumble for their keys.

A Real Harry Potter Fan shouts out "yes, yes, yes" in the middle of a 
dinner party, when a particularly obscure bit of OoP suddenly makes 
sense to them and fits neatly into their Grand Scheme Of Things.

A Real Harry Potter Fan shouts out "yes, yes, yes" during sex, when 
a ...

A Real Harry Potter Fan doesn't eat quiche.

:o)





From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 24 16:37:15 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:37:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Santas worried about being hassled by HP
Message-ID: <20030724163715.39840.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com>

"'We also call for international rules 
to create flight corridors so we can 
deliver the presents without being 
hassled by witches on broom sticks and 
boys like Harry Potter,' Ole Lundsgaard, 
a Danish Santa, or Julemand, told the 
cheering and laughing crowd [at the 40th 
annual convention of Santa Clauses]."

source (some assembly required):

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/
20030724/ap_on_fe_st/denmark_santa_claus_1

Petra, bored at work
a
n  :)

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From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 24 17:30:18 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:30:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: HPfGU's 10,000 milestone
Message-ID: <20030724173018.51606.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com>

Wow!  The main list is going to be 
10K strong any minute now...

Petra
a
n  :)

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From h_potter_uk at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Jul 24 18:03:55 2003
From: h_potter_uk at yahoo.co.uk (Jenny)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:03:55 -0000
Subject: Opinions and a "real" HP fan.
In-Reply-To: <bfniih+tooc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfp72b+qt3e@eGroups.com>

A "real" Harry Potter fan:

- has more home-made posters for Harry Potter dating back to the 
Prisoner of Azkaban release than the posters that are currently 
available through WB.

- Started the Potter for President campaign in 2000 (he will be  
running again in 2004! "Magic Will Happen!" is the campaign slogan) 
with a measley little sign in their front yard.

- goes in to talk with 4th and 5th graders at the local elementary 
school about Harry Potter.  (And, man, are those kids deep!)

- knitted a red and gold scarf before the first movie was completed

- for that matter - had more pre-movie home-made merchandise than was 
thought possible ;)

- has written several scholarly essays about the effect of Harry 
Potter on the teenage mind (and got an A on it too...)

- thinks that Jim Dale's 134 voices for book 5 are not that big of a 
deal

- has the books in languages that they can't even understand let 
alone read

- makes people sign a contract (on parchment, with quill) before 
loaning out a book - then charges extra when the books come back 
<<gasp!>> damaged.

- tells kids in the movie theater to go home and read the book and 
then come back to see the movie :)

- looks at the news today and considers odd deaths to be the work of 
You-Know-Who and the Death Eaters (then wonders, is the Order working 
on this?)

- will make an email account in Britain even though they've never 
been out of the States, just because the American Yahoo didn't have 
that account name available anymore ;)

Yours in Gryffindor,
Jenny, who has done just about everything on this list and more!




From kirst_inn at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Jul 24 18:04:42 2003
From: kirst_inn at yahoo.co.uk (Kirstini)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:04:42 -0000
Subject: HPfGU's 10,000 milestone
In-Reply-To: <20030724173018.51606.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bfp73q+tf68@eGroups.com>

Petra Pan:
> Wow!  The main list is going to be 
> 10K strong any minute now...

And six minutes later, it was at 10,001!
Is it me, or has the main list's volume increased dramatically just 
over the last week? I know there was a big upsurge after OoP, but I'd 
rather thought it had all quietened down a bit. Foolish mortal that I 
am.
Kirstini




From ression at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 24 18:32:12 2003
From: ression at hotmail.com (ER)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:32:12 -0000
Subject: HPfGU's 10,000 milestone
In-Reply-To: <bfp73q+tf68@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfp8nc+d13u@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Kirstini" <kirst_inn at y...> 
wrote:
> Is it me, or has the main list's volume increased dramatically just 
> over the last week? 

UK school holidays starting?

ER




From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Thu Jul 24 21:20:04 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 21:20:04 -0000
Subject: HPfGU's 10,000 milestone
In-Reply-To: <20030724173018.51606.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bfpii4+7pom@eGroups.com>

Petra Pan wrote:

> Wow!  The main list is going to be 
> 10K strong any minute now...

"Wow" is right!  I never thought I'd see the day.  Hmmm, there must 
be a way to make this interesting.  First, David could create some 
kind of whiz bang chart of membership figures.

Second, we could go on record to guess the date on which the list 
will surge to 11,000.  Mmmmm, I say October 3.  

Cindy




From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 25 00:05:59 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:05:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: HPfGU's 10,000 milestone
In-Reply-To: <bfp73q+tf68@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030725000559.38815.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com>

Yours truly:
> > Wow!  The main list is going to be 
> > 10K strong any minute now...

Kirstini:
> And six minutes later, it was at 10,001!
> Is it me, or has the main list's volume
> increased dramatically just over the
> last week? I know there was a big
> upsurge after OoP, but I'd rather
> thought it had all quietened down a
> bit. Foolish mortal that I am.

Hmm...perhaps we're getting those who 
read OotP at a much more leisurely pace 
and who took their time succumbing to the 
HP bug?  'Cause, really, a month's about 
right for the incubation period.  <wink>

Petra
a
n  :)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com



From Erthena at aol.com  Fri Jul 25 01:52:00 2003
From: Erthena at aol.com (werebearloony)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 01:52:00 -0000
Subject: Opinions and a "real" HP fan.
In-Reply-To: <842BD932-BD0E-11D7-B033-0003935103DC@mac.com>
Message-ID: <bfq2g0+7kt0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Peter Paul <wgouine1 at m...> 
wrote:
> LOTR is good but quite testosterone ridden.  Rowling's books are 
more 
> multi gendered. But finding an adult who is willing/capable of 
> discussing & comparing is to be celebrated; thankfully I have my 
> sister,  my husband and two of his buddies who are literate in both 
> "worlds". Please note the guys are really biased toward the JRRT

While I agree with you mostly I have one word to refute your "LOTR is 
mostly for guys" argument '*Legolas*'.  I could speak reams about how 
he is a rare find in literature (being an unattached guy who can't 
die {::Sniff:: Sirius} and a prince to boot.) and a small google 
search will turn up THOUSANDS of equally obsessed fangirls (yes the 
movie and hottie orlando bloom had a lot to do with this but I liked 
Legolas BEFORE the movie).  So Tolkien has stuff for girls to obsess 
over too.
Don't let the muggles get you down.
--loony




From anneu53714 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 25 03:19:16 2003
From: anneu53714 at yahoo.com (Anne)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 03:19:16 -0000
Subject: Santas worried about being hassled by HP
In-Reply-To: <20030724163715.39840.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bfq7jk+7v8o@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Petra Pan <ms_petra_pan at y...> 
wrote:

> 
> source (some assembly required):
> 
> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/
> 20030724/ap_on_fe_st/denmark_santa_claus_1
>

Here's how to avoid all those "some assembly required" web links that 
drive EVERYONE crazy.

http://tinyurl.com

It will change your life :)

Anne U
(not as much as HP did, but enough, and people will thank you)





From anneu53714 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 25 03:30:54 2003
From: anneu53714 at yahoo.com (Anne)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 03:30:54 -0000
Subject: HPfGU's 10,000 milestone
In-Reply-To: <bfpii4+7pom@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfq89e+4suj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." <cindysphynx at c...> 
wrote:
> Petra Pan wrote:

> Second, we could go on record to guess the date on which the list 
> will surge to 11,000.  Mmmmm, I say October 3.  
> 
> Cindy

Cindy, the main HP list had about 4,900 members as of late 11/02 when 
I joined. I think it had about 7,500 right before time OotP was 
released, so (if my figuring is right) it's gained 2,500 members in 
just the last MONTH. So... 11,000 by October 3 seems too late for me. 
I'll guess 11,000 by no later than September 1.

At any rate, it's too big and busy for me and I can't possibly keep 
up... so I'm just avoiding it for the foreseeable future. I do have a 
canon question but I'm not sure I'm prepared to ask it on the main 
list... I'm wondering if the Marauders and Lily were really as young 
as we'd been figuring prior to OotP. Oh well.

Anne U
(who doesn't have time to scroll through the HPfGU message titles on 
http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU/ every day, much less try to 
read even a fraction of the messages, but might poke my nose in soon)




From heidit at netbox.com  Fri Jul 25 07:31:22 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 03:31:22 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: HPfGU's 10,000 milestone
In-Reply-To: <bfq89e+4suj@eGroups.com>
References: <bfq89e+4suj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1059118300.34E79602@r5.dngr.org>

JKR said in an online chat that we can probabky find using quick quotes 
that snape was 35 or 36, although she never said what book he was that 
age during - could be ps/ss, could be GoF.

So unless she's since changed her mind, if you accept interviews as 
canon, they were born in either the early 60s or late 50s.

Heidi


On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:30PM -0500, Anne wrote:
> Real-To:  "Anne" <anneu53714 at yahoo.com>
>
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." <cindysphynx at c...>
> wrote:
>>  Petra Pan wrote:
>
>>  Second, we could go on record to guess the date on which the list
>>  will surge to 11,000.  Mmmmm, I say October 3.
>>
>>  Cindy
>
> Cindy, the main HP list had about 4,900 members as of late 11/02 when
> I joined. I think it had about 7,500 right before time OotP was
> released, so (if my figuring is right) it's gained 2,500 members in
> just the last MONTH. So... 11,000 by October 3 seems too late for me.
> I'll guess 11,000 by no later than September 1.
>
> At any rate, it's too big and busy for me and I can't possibly keep
> up... so I'm just avoiding it for the foreseeable future. I do have a
> canon question but I'm not sure I'm prepared to ask it on the main
> list... I'm wondering if the Marauders and Lily were really as young
> as we'd been figuring prior to OotP. Oh well.
>
> Anne U
> (who doesn't have time to scroll through the HPfGU message titles on
> http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU/ every day, much less try to
> read even a fraction of the messages, but might poke my nose in soon)
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin 
> Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary 
> material from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to 
> HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- 
> MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
> Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



From kirst_inn at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Jul 25 10:07:40 2003
From: kirst_inn at yahoo.co.uk (Kirstini)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:07:40 -0000
Subject: Darkest Peru
Message-ID: <bfqvhc+3kbi@eGroups.com>

Kirstini's Summer Excursion 2003 is about to begin, and she was 
wondering if anyone could very sweetly recommend her fairly cheap, 
fun places to eat and go in Cusco, Peru.
Oh, thank you so much.




From wgouine1 at mac.com  Fri Jul 25 13:11:25 2003
From: wgouine1 at mac.com (Peter Paul)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:11:25 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Opinions and a "real" HP fan.
In-Reply-To: <bfq2g0+7kt0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <7E7276EF-BEA1-11D7-A7B3-0003935103DC@mac.com>


On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 09:52  PM, werebearloony wrote:

> but I liked
> Legolas BEFORE the movie

Ok! point. However I do prefer Aragon's character in the books (tho I 
constantly yell at him to bring the king's wort out WAY earlier!) but 
as far as drool factor... Orlando is cinematographically stunning (plus 
I am into archery so his fantastical skills w/ a long bow lead towards 
Legolas favortism in the flicks)

All those in favor of eye candy? yummy


peace,
Wendy

Constant Vigilance!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From psychic_serpent at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 25 15:35:01 2003
From: psychic_serpent at yahoo.com (psychic_serpent)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:35:01 -0000
Subject: Opinions and a "real" HP fan.
In-Reply-To: <bfq2g0+7kt0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfrin5+it2b@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "werebearloony" 
<Erthena at a...> wrote:
> I could speak reams about how he [Legolas] is a rare find in 
> literature (being an unattached guy who can't die {::Sniff:: 
> Sirius} and a prince to boot.) and a small google search will turn 
> up THOUSANDS of equally obsessed fangirls (yes the movie and 
> hottie orlando bloom had a lot to do with this but I liked Legolas 
> BEFORE the movie).  So Tolkien has stuff for girls to obsess over 
> too. 

Well, it's not just the girls who obsess over Legolas or Mr. Bloom.  
I was ROFL during an episode of Will & Grace where Will's character 
strongly hinted that he spent time fantasizing about a blond "arrow-
shooting elf."  Someone on that writing staff HAS to be aware of the 
scads of slash LOTR fanfic on the web, much of it featuring 
Legolas!  I just thought it was a riot that fannish slashiness was 
showing up in a sitcom; it feels like it's on the verge of going 
mainstream now.

--Barb 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychic_Serpent
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorsLinks/Barb






From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Fri Jul 25 17:31:55 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 17:31:55 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter 
Message-ID: <1059154315.275.87246.w62@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-OTChatter group:

Which do you prefer to fall asleep thinking 
about? 

  o Legolas (book version) 
  o Legolas  (film version) 
  o Sirius  (book version) 
  o Sirius (film version) 
  o HEY!? What about Aragon & Lupin? 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=1121312  

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 







From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 25 18:22:18 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:22:18 -0000
Subject: Opinions and a "real" HP fan.
In-Reply-To: <bfrin5+it2b@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfrsgq+o4ni@eGroups.com>

Barb wrote:

> Well, it's not just the girls who obsess over Legolas or Mr. 
Bloom.  
> I was ROFL during an episode of Will & Grace where Will's character 
> strongly hinted that he spent time fantasizing about a blond "arrow-
> shooting elf."  Someone on that writing staff HAS to be aware of 
the 
> scads of slash LOTR fanfic on the web, much of it featuring 
> Legolas!  

I wouldn't be surprised--but it didn't take fanfiction to make 
Bloom's Legolas an instant gay icon.  The man catapulted to Judy 
Garland status before the trailer had finished running.

Amy Z




From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 25 19:01:43 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:01:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Orlando Bloom {was} Opinions and a "real" HP fan.
In-Reply-To: <bfrsgq+o4ni@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030725190143.37080.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com>

Barb:
> Well, it's not just the girls who
> obsess over Legolas or Mr. Bloom.  
> I was ROFL during an episode of
> Will & Grace where Will's character 
> strongly hinted that he spent time
> fantasizing about a blond "arrow-
> shooting elf."  Someone on that
> writing staff HAS to be aware of the 
> scads of slash LOTR fanfic on the
> web, much of it featuring Legolas!

<g> I remember that line from W&G!

Amy Z:
> I wouldn't be surprised--but it
> didn't take fanfiction to make 
> Bloom's Legolas an instant gay
> icon.  The man catapulted to Judy 
> Garland status before the trailer
> had finished running.

Not to mention that in 1997's WILDE, 
Mr. Bloom played "Rentboy" in a 
blink-and-you've-missed-it scene 
(okay, more a potent exchange of 
meaningful glances than an actual scene) 
that IIRC marks the introduction
of Oscar Wilde's (possibly burgeoning 
at that point - can't recall) self-
realization of his own homosexuality to 
the audience.

Petra
a
n  :)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com



From huntleyl at mssm.org  Fri Jul 25 21:23:24 2003
From: huntleyl at mssm.org (Laura Ingalls Huntley)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:23:24 -0400
Subject: OOP Fan Arts (WOW!) MOVED FROM MAIN LIST
References: <beuqih+kfi6@eGroups.com> <p05200f06bb38edf11ae7@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <00dc01c352f2$fb911b20$6801a8c0@huntleyl>

"dropaad" wrote:
> I don't know if this has been posted before or not.
> http://www.artdungeon.net/ootp/ootp.php
>
<SNIP>
>
> The stretches on this site, on the other hand, were really good.
>
> If you haven't seen them, Enjoy!

I *have* seen them, and I must confess, they're absolutely fabulous.  ^_~ I
highly recommend that *everyone* go see them.

Interestingly, they remind me quite a bit of Winnie-the-Pooh illustrations.
Only, not so much with the talking animals, I think.

*sighs* I tell you, it breaks my little H/H Shipper's heart that she's (he?)
quite obviously an R/Her. *shakes head* It's really quite a shame.

Laura





From random832 at rcbooks.org  Fri Jul 25 21:54:12 2003
From: random832 at rcbooks.org (Random)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:54:12 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter
In-Reply-To: <1059154315.275.87246.w62@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <86ECF091-BEEA-11D7-A615-0003939A0BA2@rcbooks.org>


On Friday, Jul 25, 2003, at 12:31 America/Indianapolis, 
HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  wrote:

>   o Sirius (film version)

eh? I haven't seen a film sirius, yet... has the creator of this poll 
been to the future or what?




From khaili at terra.com.br  Fri Jul 25 21:57:24 2003
From: khaili at terra.com.br (Julie)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:57:24 -0300 (Hora padr?o leste da Am. Sul)
Subject: character images
References: <1059041559.574.46052.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <3F21A7C4.000003.59855@rafael>

Hi everyone!

I'm Julie, a 22-year-old HP fan from Brazil and I'm new to the list. Well, I
joined two weeks ago, and I'm enjoying it immensely.

Let me ask you a question, both film and book related: how do you imagine
H/R/H, and Hogwarts, and everything else? Do you still remember the images
you had before the first movie came out? Or is inevitable to see Harry
looking like Daniel Radcliffe, for example? What about Dumbledore? What
about the places? All in all, has the movies changed the way you imagined
people and things in the WW?

As for me, it doesn't count, because I read the first book only after the
first movie was already out. I didn't *see* it though - I thought it was
important to read the book first, and actually, I got to read all four of
them before I watched the first movie (on DVD)

However,I refuse to think of Sirius as Gary Oldman, I didn't like that one
at all, and I've got my image of Sirius intact in my mind, same applies to
Lupin. How about you?

Cheers,

Julie. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From heidit at netbox.com  Fri Jul 25 21:57:54 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:57:54 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter
In-Reply-To: <86ECF091-BEEA-11D7-A615-0003939A0BA2@rcbooks.org>
References: <86ECF091-BEEA-11D7-A615-0003939A0BA2@rcbooks.org>
Message-ID: <1059170278.6ACC78B@r5.dngr.org>

Earlier this week, the-leaky-cauldron.org posted a pic of Gary Oldman in 
half a costume - although wb asked us to take it down the next day - but 
because of this a few thousand people got an idea of what oldman will 
look like as sirius.


On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 5:54PM -0500, Random wrote:
> Real-To:  Random <random832 at rcbooks.org>
>
>
> On Friday, Jul 25, 2003, at 12:31 America/Indianapolis,
> HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  wrote:
>
>>    o Sirius (film version)
>
> eh? I haven't seen a film sirius, yet... has the creator of this poll
> been to the future or what?
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin 
> Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary 
> material from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to 
> HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- 
> MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
> Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



From huntleyl at mssm.org  Fri Jul 25 22:33:02 2003
From: huntleyl at mssm.org (Laura Ingalls Huntley)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:33:02 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] character images
References: <1059041559.574.46052.m12@yahoogroups.com> <3F21A7C4.000003.59855@rafael>
Message-ID: <010801c352fc$b5ce2c90$6801a8c0@huntleyl>

> I'm Julie, a 22-year-old HP fan from Brazil and I'm new to the list. Well,
I
> joined two weeks ago, and I'm enjoying it immensely.
> Let me ask you a question, both film and book related: how do you imagine
> H/R/H, and Hogwarts, and everything else? Do you still remember the images
> you had before the first movie came out? Or is inevitable to see Harry
> looking like Daniel Radcliffe, for example?

First off: Welcome!

Secondly:  While I fully expected to have "my" visions of the characters
(esp. HRH) changed to match the actors in the movies, I've found that this
was not the case.

I do think that Dan makes an excellent Harry, but my mental image of the Boy
That Lived is a little thinner around the face than Radcliffe, and...I don't
know...generally more *pointy*, I think.  Radcliffe just looks waaay too
healthy and cherubic to have suffered nearly eleven years of mistreatment
and occasional near-starvation.  Also, my Harry has messier hair. *smirks*

As for Ron, while I think Rupert Grint is extremely likeable and
cute-as-a-button, he's just not tall and lanky enough to fit my mental image
of what Ron should look like.  However, I am mostly pleased with his
performance in the movies.

And Hermione...*sighs* I'm afraid I have..something against Ms. Watson.  I
don't know what it is, but whenever I read or watch an interview with her,
all my fur gets rubbed the wrong way.  Besides the fact that she doesn't
even come remotely *close* to my mental image of Hermione, I don't really
like her attitude.  I think she's gotten better recently, but in the
beginning she was always bashing her character and prattling on about
clothing.  *shakes head*  I'm sure she's a perfectly nice person in real
life, but I can't stand the way she comes across in interviews.

>What about Dumbledore?

My only complaint with Harris was that his voice (and I don't know if this
was intentional or due to age and/or illness) was *too* whispery and old
sounding, with way to many pauses for breath.  I'm interested in seeing how
Michael Gambon fits into the role...I've only seen one picture of him in
costume, and (due mostly to all the hair and beard, I think) he looked
remarkably like Harris's Dumbledore.

> However,I refuse to think of Sirius as Gary Oldman, I didn't like that one
> at all, and I've got my image of Sirius intact in my mind, same applies to
> Lupin. How about you?

Oh, I couldn't agree more.  Eee....I've had no problem so far with
reconciling "my" characters to the actors that play them in the movies, but
I have a *very* strong picture of Sirius in my head, and Gary Oldman just
isn't working for me.  I was concerned when I first heard that they had cast
him, and now that I've seen the picture that was up at The Leaky Cauldron,
I'm frankly scared.  Hopefully, it won't affect my movie-going experience
enough to ruin the whole thing for me.

Laura (who likes Oldman quite a bit, actually, but just thinks he's all
wrong for Sirius.)





From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 25 22:46:10 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:46:10 -0000
Subject: Orlando Bloom {was} Opinions and a "real" HP fan.
In-Reply-To: <20030725190143.37080.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bfsbvi+tfgm@eGroups.com>

Petra Pan wrote:

> Not to mention that in 1997's WILDE

Oh, I really want to see that.  The list grows.

> Mr. Bloom played "Rentboy" in a 
> blink-and-you've-missed-it scene 
> (okay, more a potent exchange of 
> meaningful glances than an actual scene) 
> that IIRC marks the introduction
> of Oscar Wilde's (possibly burgeoning 
> at that point - can't recall) self-
> realization of his own homosexuality to 
> the audience.

I bet Orlando Bloom has had that effect on a lot of men.

Amy Z, who doesn't go for the pretty type so much, herself




From raylady at metrocast.net  Fri Jul 25 22:45:43 2003
From: raylady at metrocast.net (Joline Desrosiers)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:45:43 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Sirius' 'handwriting' font
References: <1059127927.848.89242.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <003c01c352fe$7b420180$a6fe05cf@computer>

Hello from a long-time lurker!

Does anyone here know what font was used for Sirius' letters in the American
editions of the books.  I see the fonts used in PoA and OoP are different.
Any information on either would be greatly appreciated!

I have found the font (or a very similar one) used for Remus in PoA.
Here it is if anyone's interested,

http://www.adobe.com/type/browser/F/CAFP/F_CAFP-10003000.jhtml

Thanks in advance for any info!

Joline





From kathryn.cawte at ntlworld.com  Fri Jul 25 23:07:56 2003
From: kathryn.cawte at ntlworld.com (slytherinspirit)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:07:56 -0000
Subject: Orlando Bloom {was} Opinions and a "real" HP fan.
In-Reply-To: <bfsbvi+tfgm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfsd8c+7f7c@eGroups.com>


> 
> I bet Orlando Bloom has had that effect on a lot of men.
> 
> Amy Z, who doesn't go for the pretty type so much, herself

He's a lot less 'pretty' in the posters for Pirates of the Caribbean -
 in fact he's unrecognizable. He's got a real Errol Flynn vibe going 
on.

He and Johnny Depp make a good looking pair - with pirates that look 
like that you really wouldn't *want* to be rescued :)

But then I feel that way about Burt Lancaster too - does anyone know 
if The Last Voyage of the Crimson Pirate is out on dvd?

K




From heidit at netbox.com  Fri Jul 25 23:27:07 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:27:07 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Orlando Bloom {was} Opinions and a "real" HP fan.
In-Reply-To: <bfsbvi+tfgm@eGroups.com>
References: <bfsbvi+tfgm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1059175630.139AE3AF@w5.dngr.org>


On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 6:46PM -0500, Amy Z wrote:
> Amy Z, who doesn't go for the pretty type so much, herself


After lotr came out and cassie started writing the Very Secret Diaries, 
there was much belsieging by orlando's fangirls on those of us who 
didn't swoon for him.

I realised that we understood that he was v. Good looking, but it just 
didn't have any effect on me, or certain other people.

So those who don't crush but do recognize his good looks are 'respecting 
the pretty' - which is a sensible thing to do.


Heidi



From rvotaw at i-55.com  Sat Jul 26 00:08:42 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:08:42 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Orlando Bloom {was} Opinions and a "real" HP fan.
References: <bfsbvi+tfgm@eGroups.com> <1059175630.139AE3AF@w5.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <002d01c3530a$137048d0$129fcdd1@l3820.tjdo.com>


Heidi wrote:

> I realised that we understood that he was v. Good looking, but it just
> didn't have any effect on me, or certain other people.

So that's it.  I wondered if it was just me.  Orlando Bloom is perfectly
attractive, but I don't see a thing to be wild about.  Make sense?  On the
other hand, Viggo Mortensen (at least as Aragorn) would probably have me
falling at his feet if he were to stride in about now.

Richelle





From vicky07035 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 26 00:23:09 2003
From: vicky07035 at yahoo.com (vicky07035)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 00:23:09 -0000
Subject: Just a note
Message-ID: <bfshld+apas@eGroups.com>

Just wanted to say HI! Just found out yesterday you were here.




From phoebesophia at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 26 00:47:19 2003
From: phoebesophia at yahoo.com (phoebesophia)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 00:47:19 -0000
Subject: being sorted
Message-ID: <bfsj2n+o52h@eGroups.com>

hi
i saw a post somewhere that mentioned the poster had taken a test and 
been sorted into one of the houses.  does anyone have a link to that 
site?
thanks
phoebesophia




From anneu53714 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 26 02:19:30 2003
From: anneu53714 at yahoo.com (Anne)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 02:19:30 -0000
Subject: J/L ages
In-Reply-To: <1059118300.34E79602@r5.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <bfsofi+j31b@eGroups.com>

Thanks, Heidi. I am inclined to think that Snape might have been 35-
36 (and by extension, Sirius and Remus too) during PS/SS, rather than 
later. I think so because in "Career Advice" in OotP, McGonagall told 
Harry it would take him "at least three years" additional study 
beyond Hogwarts to become an Auror. So, if James and Lily were both 
Aurors and left school in the same year, they would have studied at 
least three more years before being certified as Aurors, and they 
were probably Aurors for at least a year before Harry was born, 
wouldn't you think? (Might've been hard to do Auroring while 8 months 
pregnant, I'd think). Anyway - I'd agree they were probably born 
sometime between 1955 and 1959 at the latest. If born in 1955, they 
would be the same age as Lucius Malfoy (IIRC the Daily Prophet listed 
Lucius' age as 41 as of June 1996).

Anne U
(PS it was nice to see your photo on The Leaky Cauldron!)

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Heidi Tandy" <heidit at n...> 
wrote:
> JKR said in an online chat that we can probabky find using quick 
quotes 
> that snape was 35 or 36, although she never said what book he was 
that 
> age during - could be ps/ss, could be GoF.
> 
> So unless she's since changed her mind, if you accept interviews as 
> canon, they were born in either the early 60s or late 50s.
> 
> Heidi
> 
> 
> On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:30PM -0500, Anne wrote:
> I do have a
> > canon question but I'm not sure I'm prepared to ask it on the main
> > list... I'm wondering if the Marauders and Lily were really as 
young
> > as we'd been figuring prior to OotP. Oh well.
> >
>  




From anneu53714 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 26 02:25:26 2003
From: anneu53714 at yahoo.com (Anne)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 02:25:26 -0000
Subject: OOP Fan Arts (WOW!) MOVED FROM MAIN LIST
In-Reply-To: <00dc01c352f2$fb911b20$6801a8c0@huntleyl>
Message-ID: <bfsoqm+2os5@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Laura Ingalls Huntley" 
<huntleyl at m...> wrote:
> "dropaad" wrote:
> > I don't know if this has been posted before or not.
> > http://www.artdungeon.net/ootp/ootp.php
> >
> <SNIP>
>I highly recommend that *everyone* go see them.
> 
> Interestingly, they remind me quite a bit of Winnie-the-Pooh 
illustrations.
> Only, not so much with the talking animals, I think.
> 
> *sighs* I tell you, it breaks my little H/H Shipper's heart that 
she's (he?)
> quite obviously an R/Her. *shakes head* It's really quite a shame.
> 
> Laura

Yes, they break my H/H shipper's heart too... but I have to say I 
love the glowering look on Hermione's face when Ron asks Harry about 
kissing Cho. Talk about if looks could kill... and personally I think 
she's throwing that look at Harry (when he replies "Wet"), though 
she's a tad too far away to tell for sure ;-)

Anne U
(who nevertheless does love Marta's OOP illustrations)




From rvotaw at i-55.com  Sat Jul 26 02:32:19 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:32:19 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re:OOP Fan Arts (WOW!) MOVED FROM MAIN LIST
References: <bfsoqm+2os5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <007501c3531e$238aa940$d99dcdd1@l3820.tjdo.com>

Anne U wrote:

> Yes, they break my H/H shipper's heart too... but I have to say I
> love the glowering look on Hermione's face when Ron asks Harry about
> kissing Cho. Talk about if looks could kill... and personally I think
> she's throwing that look at Harry (when he replies "Wet"), though
> she's a tad too far away to tell for sure ;-)

Oh, that one's my favorite.  I'm not really a shipper, but if I were I'd be
R/H, H/G.  Anyway, I love everyone's expressions in that picture.  Body
language and everything is perfect.   Fabulous art.  I can't wait for more!
I also really like the one of Snape's memory with Harry watching his dad &
co.

Richelle





From Malady579 at hotmail.com  Sat Jul 26 02:44:26 2003
From: Malady579 at hotmail.com (Melody)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 02:44:26 -0000
Subject: Orlando Bloom 
In-Reply-To: <bfsd8c+7f7c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfspua+ci5t@eGroups.com>

K wrote about Orlando Bloom:
>He's a lot less 'pretty' in the posters for Pirates of the Caribbean 
>- in fact he's unrecognizable. He's got a real Errol Flynn vibe going
 >on.


Well, when I first saw Senor Sexy Elf I thought him quite nice on the
eyes, and that cape was very fetching on him...those tights too.  That
fierce silent stature was also intriguing.  I went home to check the
internet to read more up on this new found Orli, when I see a picture
of him in RL without the LotR makeup and hair.  I was greatly freaked
out too.  

See, in RL he looks *exactly* like my brother.  I swear. 

The dark curly hair, the olive skin, the dark brown eyes, even the
tall, lanky body.  I got chills and immediately lost any crush that
was growing from the movie.  

::Sigh::

Oh well.  Though while I was watching Pirates of the Caribbean, I did
find him quite handsome.  I just could not get past the brother vibe.
 ::shudder::


Melody
who does not expect to swoon at Gary Oldman in PoA purely because she
cannot imagine Oldman as sexy.




From catlady at wicca.net  Sat Jul 26 03:18:30 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 03:18:30 -0000
Subject: being sorted
In-Reply-To: <bfsj2n+o52h@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfsru6+l4js@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "phoebesophia" 
<phoebesophia at y...> wrote:
> hi
> i saw a post somewhere that mentioned the poster had taken a test
> and been sorted into one of the houses.  does anyone have a link to
> that site?

Google found us a bunch of on-line Sorting Hats:
 
http://timidity.org/tests/sortinghat.html
http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=the_sorting_hat
http://harrypotter.warnerbros.com/web/hogwarts/sorting_hat.jsp
http://www.edleston.cheshire.sch.uk/projects/harry/4houses.htm
http://carnagems.wcpss.net/media_center/book_talk/Project_three/sortin
ghat.html
http://www.geocities.com/dr_c_314/sortquiz.html
http://www.onewaystreet.nu/hp/hat/
http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/worldofmagic/sortinghat.html

I haven't tried all of them (the WB one seems to be strictly 
random) but the best of the ones I've tried is sevendragons:
 
http://hogwarts.7dragons.net/sortinghat.html

But the homepage indicates that 7dragons has been changed to VH and 
the Sorting will soon be replaced by four new Houses, so try it 
quick before it goes away. I don't know how to steal someone's Java 
script from their webpage, but at least I wrote down the questions 
(each is pick one of two answers). Maybe we can discuss what the 
questions have to do with the Houses, or at least what they MEAN:

I am:

()a thinker .... ()a dreamer
()outgoing ..... ()retiring
()swift ........ ()thorough
()active ....... ()mellow
()a bookwork ... ()a gamer

I believe:
()the ends justify the means ... ()doing the right thing is the most 
important thing
()I get what I'm entitled to ... ()I get what I deserve
()in my luck ................... ()in my skill
()in doing what's right ........ ()in getting my own way
()that everything can be explained, eventually ()that there are things 
we are not meant to know
()in fair play ................. ()in never surrendering
()in business before pleasure .. ()in savoring life to the utmost
()in survival of the fittest ... ()in death before dishonor
()in my luck ................... ()in making my own luck
()in dramatic tales ............ ()in happy endings
()life is a game ............... ()life is a sport
()in moderation ................ ()in pushing it to the limit
()in practising what i preach .. ()in getting others to agree with me
()it's never too late to have a happy childhood ()the best part of 
youth is outgrowing it
()in miracles .................. ()in the power of positive thninking

I don't like:
()comic books ........ ()historical nonfiction
()being bored ........ ()being alone
()slow people ........ ()stupid people
()dull people ........ ()mean people
()physical exertion .. ()mental stress

I prefer:
()a hearty homecooked meal .... ()gourmet cuisins
()classic elegance ............ ()trendy fashion
()rooting for the home team ... ()cheering on the winner
()listening to music .......... ()dancing
()hugs ........................ ()handshakes
 
People think I'm:
()exciting ........... ()dependable
()a role model ....... ()a bad influence
()depressing ......... ()annoying
()fun to be around ... ()intriguing
()optimistic ......... ()realistic

My friends are:
()smart ........ ()bold
()warm ......... ()cool
()outspoken .... ()mannerly
()loud ......... ()quiet
()cool ......... ()sttrange

My friends and I:
()are a close-knit group ......... ()are more of a casual cluster
()go out and do things ........... ()sit around and talk
()work together .................. ()play together
()accomplish great things together ()tend to get in trouble together
()hang out together when we can .. ()stick together through thick or 
thin

I would rather:
()cook .............................. ()clean
()conquer ........................... ()succeed
()put things together ............... ()take things apart
()accept defeat gracefully .......... ()plot my revenge
()play with fingerpaints ............ ()play with building blocks
()dream ............................. ()imagine
() take my time on what I'm doing ... ()move along ot the next thing
()be entertained .................... ()be informed
()write ............................. ()draw
()wash the car ...................... ()do the laundry




From phoebesophia at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 26 03:53:33 2003
From: phoebesophia at yahoo.com (phoebesophia)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 03:53:33 -0000
Subject: being sorted
In-Reply-To: <bfsru6+l4js@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfstvt+pjks@eGroups.com>

catlady
woman you rock! thanks so much!  i couldn't get the 7dragons site to 
run for me, but i really appreciate that you included the questions.  
and, yes, i'd love to have a conversation about how they correspond 
to the houses.  
i used several of the links you sent, and it's official.  i am a 
SLYTHERIN.  i'm thrilled!  (i had to tell someone, and somehow all of 
my friends are ravenclaw types.  hmmm, maybe i need some new 
friends!)  
looking at the first set of questions below, i think that obviously 
slyths and ravens are thinkers, swift, and active.  they obviously 
differ on the last point:  slyths are gamers and ravens are 
bookworms. i'm not sure not sure about the outgoing/retiring though.  
i think that could break either way.
anyone else have interesting thoughts on the subject?
phoebesophia
> But the homepage indicates that 7dragons has been changed to VH and 
> the Sorting will soon be replaced by four new Houses, so try it 
> quick before it goes away. I don't know how to steal someone's Java 
> script from their webpage, but at least I wrote down the questions 
> (each is pick one of two answers). Maybe we can discuss what the 
> questions have to do with the Houses, or at least what they MEAN:
> 
> I am:
> 
> ()a thinker .... ()a dreamer
> ()outgoing ..... ()retiring
> ()swift ........ ()thorough
> ()active ....... ()mellow
> ()a bookwork ... ()a gamer
> 
> I believe:
> ()the ends justify the means ... ()doing the right thing is the 
most 
> important thing
> ()I get what I'm entitled to ... ()I get what I deserve
> ()in my luck ................... ()in my skill
> ()in doing what's right ........ ()in getting my own way
> ()that everything can be explained, eventually ()that there are 
things 
> we are not meant to know
> ()in fair play ................. ()in never surrendering
> ()in business before pleasure .. ()in savoring life to the utmost
> ()in survival of the fittest ... ()in death before dishonor
> ()in my luck ................... ()in making my own luck
> ()in dramatic tales ............ ()in happy endings
> ()life is a game ............... ()life is a sport
> ()in moderation ................ ()in pushing it to the limit
> ()in practising what i preach .. ()in getting others to agree with 
me
> ()it's never too late to have a happy childhood ()the best part of 
> youth is outgrowing it
> ()in miracles .................. ()in the power of positive 
thninking
> 
> I don't like:
> ()comic books ........ ()historical nonfiction
> ()being bored ........ ()being alone
> ()slow people ........ ()stupid people
> ()dull people ........ ()mean people
> ()physical exertion .. ()mental stress
> 
> I prefer:
> ()a hearty homecooked meal .... ()gourmet cuisins
> ()classic elegance ............ ()trendy fashion
> ()rooting for the home team ... ()cheering on the winner
> ()listening to music .......... ()dancing
> ()hugs ........................ ()handshakes
>  
> People think I'm:
> ()exciting ........... ()dependable
> ()a role model ....... ()a bad influence
> ()depressing ......... ()annoying
> ()fun to be around ... ()intriguing
> ()optimistic ......... ()realistic
> 
> My friends are:
> ()smart ........ ()bold
> ()warm ......... ()cool
> ()outspoken .... ()mannerly
> ()loud ......... ()quiet
> ()cool ......... ()sttrange
> 
> My friends and I:
> ()are a close-knit group ......... ()are more of a casual cluster
> ()go out and do things ........... ()sit around and talk
> ()work together .................. ()play together
> ()accomplish great things together ()tend to get in trouble together
> ()hang out together when we can .. ()stick together through thick 
or 
> thin
> 
> I would rather:
> ()cook .............................. ()clean
> ()conquer ........................... ()succeed
> ()put things together ............... ()take things apart
> ()accept defeat gracefully .......... ()plot my revenge
> ()play with fingerpaints ............ ()play with building blocks
> ()dream ............................. ()imagine
> () take my time on what I'm doing ... ()move along ot the next thing
> ()be entertained .................... ()be informed
> ()write ............................. ()draw
> ()wash the car ...................... ()do the laundry




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 26 04:32:33 2003
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 04:32:33 -0000
Subject: Orlando Bloom {was} Opinions and a "real" HP fan.
In-Reply-To: <002d01c3530a$137048d0$129fcdd1@l3820.tjdo.com>
Message-ID: <bft091+ajn0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Richelle Votaw" 
<rvotaw at i...> wrote:
> 
> Heidi wrote:
> 
> > I realised that we understood that he was v. Good looking, but 
it just
> > didn't have any effect on me, or certain other people.
> 
> So that's it.  I wondered if it was just me.  Orlando Bloom is 
perfectly
> attractive, but I don't see a thing to be wild about.  Make 
sense?  On the
> other hand, Viggo Mortensen (at least as Aragorn) would probably 
have me
> falling at his feet if he were to stride in about now.
> 
> Richelle

In the previews before "Pirates of the Caribbean," which we enjoyed 
very much, they showed one for "The Haunted Mansion" (hope it's just 
as much fun), and then one for a movie called "Hidalgo" starring 
VIGGO MORTENSEN!  It looks really good, too.

Annemehr,
wondering how Elijah Wood would be in a movie where he can look more 
like a man




From rvotaw at i-55.com  Sat Jul 26 04:45:58 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:45:58 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: being sorted
References: <bfsru6+l4js@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001f01c35330$cf56e560$909fcdd1@l3820.tjdo.com>

I've always thought I belonged in Ravenclaw, but almost every sorting hat puts me in Gryffindor.  The 7dragons one put me in Hufflepuff, which is pretty far off base, IMO.  I took all the ones Catlady listed, a total of ten, and got 8 Gryffindors, the 1 Hufflepuff from 7dragons, and finally, on the last one, a Ravenclaw.  That was this one:

http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/worldofmagic/sortinghat.html

but you have to do the self sort, not autosort.  Writing it down and all that old fashioned stuff. :)  Still, I think it came out pretty accurate. 

Richelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dark30 at vcn.bc.ca  Sat Jul 26 05:38:47 2003
From: dark30 at vcn.bc.ca (Dan Feeney)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 05:38:47 -0000
Subject: Bloom, Wood, Oldman
Message-ID: <bft457+ki2a@eGroups.com>

Well, well, I'm not taken with pretty boys either, much, being, as it 
were, a so-called heterosexual male, but I did notice a certain 
fascination with the filmic Elijah Wood. This, perhaps, had more to 
do with the fact that he seemed, that is, Jackson's Frodo seemed, 
rather like me, in his concerns and responses and all. To be fair, 
however, Tolkien's Frodo felt that way too. Dare I say it? Frodo was 
my favourite character in LoTR (an amazing confession - everyone else 
just loves legolas or gimli or gandalf or aragorn or bombadil or sam 
or arwen or galadriel or eowyn etc. etc. - it's like, liking Frodo 
too much is childish or something), and any attraction I had to 
Jackson's Frodo was coloured by an already apparent attraction to the 
idea of Frodo, as it were. Though I must confess seeing non-Frodo 
Wood made me realize how tenuous this attraction, not entirely 
without a physical element, was, for Wood is, himself, not attractive 
to me in the least. No doubt it is just easier for me to entertain an 
attraction to a male "character" than to a male person, as it were. 
But there is something about it that isn't quite queer, or rather, 
what queer people I know speak of. It's almost like a body memory of 
myself, somehow, is behind it, an auto-eroticism. Does this make 
sense? I haven't really posted or written anything about this - I 
doubt most of us so-called straight men do think this is worth 
communicating at all, actually. 
But as for Oldman as Sirius - well, he looks pretty Siriusy to me. 
Looks like a man who just escaped from a dementor guarded prison and 
has been living on the lower edge. What would look more Siriusy, i 
wonder...? Really, does anyone have a picture link that might 
indicate what the heck makes Oldman so un-Siriusy? (I don't 
understand.) On Hermione, I think she's a more than a bit too cute. 
Harry looks quite like what I thought Harry would look like. Snape's 
too round, not angular enough, not even close to being sinister 
enough, by about 146 shades of grey. Ron's to0 short. Grint better 
grow, or they'll have to either get someone else (who can act, say) 
or do lots of perspective shooting.

That's it. I feel like I've just walked into the middle of a group of 
women and said something really silly.

danf




From Chasewildstar at comcast.net  Sat Jul 26 05:46:48 2003
From: Chasewildstar at comcast.net (Chase Wildstar)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 01:46:48 -0400
Subject: Totaly off topic, help request
Message-ID: <001001c35339$4e5b1860$9c01f50c@mac>


Can anyone tell me where I can find a program, that will look at my favorites folders,
and print out in www dot format, all the website addresses found in each one?

Or is there a way for me to do it without having to manualy go to each site in explorer, cut and paste the addy to a text file?

I want to post some web page addys to another group, one person has asked for my HP shopping folder.
I run XP, thanks.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dark30 at vcn.bc.ca  Sat Jul 26 06:43:27 2003
From: dark30 at vcn.bc.ca (Dan Feeney)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 06:43:27 -0000
Subject: Totaly off topic, help request
In-Reply-To: <001001c35339$4e5b1860$9c01f50c@mac>
Message-ID: <bft7uf+ne3l@eGroups.com>

File
import and export
Next
Export favourites

on friend's end
file
import and export
import favourites

in iexplorer anyway




From wgouine1 at mac.com  Sat Jul 26 14:11:16 2003
From: wgouine1 at mac.com (Peter Paul)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:11:16 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter
In-Reply-To: <86ECF091-BEEA-11D7-A615-0003939A0BA2@rcbooks.org>
Message-ID: <058DD15A-BF73-11D7-96A8-0003935103DC@mac.com>

I have not been to the future as I can't get Minerva to convince the 
MoM I need a time turner....BUT I have seen Gary Oldman in costume and 
that is all I need....
On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 05:54  PM, Random wrote:

>
> On Friday, Jul 25, 2003, at 12:31 America/Indianapolis,
> HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com? wrote:
>
> >?? o Sirius (film version)
>
> eh? I haven't seen a film sirius, yet... has the creator of this poll
> been to the future or what?
>
>
<image.tiff>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin 
> Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary 
> material from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to 
> HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- 
> MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
> Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Constant Vigilance!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From wgouine1 at mac.com  Sat Jul 26 14:12:59 2003
From: wgouine1 at mac.com (Peter Paul)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:12:59 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] character images
In-Reply-To: <3F21A7C4.000003.59855@rafael>
Message-ID: <42EA2CC2-BF73-11D7-96A8-0003935103DC@mac.com>

But Oldman is a genius..he will be superb I am sure. i had reservations 
about Branagh and look how stupendous he was!
On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 05:57  PM, Julie wrote:

> However,I refuse to think of Sirius as Gary Oldman, I didn't like that 
> one
> at all, and I've got my image of Sirius intact in my mind, same 
> applies to
> Lupin. How about you?
>

Constant Vigilance!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From wgouine1 at mac.com  Sat Jul 26 14:16:21 2003
From: wgouine1 at mac.com (Peter Paul)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:16:21 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Orlando Bloom {was} Opinions and a "real" HP fan.
In-Reply-To: <bfsd8c+7f7c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <BB73C7A0-BF73-11D7-96A8-0003935103DC@mac.com>

ROFL Thank god we are off topic! When I was creating the poll I 
considered offering all 25 responses but when I considered Depp doing 
Hunter S Thompson in Fear & Loathing i was afraid I would lose the HP 
diehards!  Pirates of the Carib ROCKS!!



On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 07:07  PM, slytherinspirit wrote:

> He and Johnny Depp make a good looking pair - with pirates that look
> like that you really wouldn't *want* to be rescued :)
>

Constant Vigilance!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From wgouine1 at mac.com  Sat Jul 26 14:22:29 2003
From: wgouine1 at mac.com (Peter Paul)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:22:29 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Bloom, Wood, Oldman
In-Reply-To: <bft457+ki2a@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <96857CD4-BF74-11D7-96A8-0003935103DC@mac.com>


I agree.  Frodo is the protagonist.Reading the books prior to Jacksons 
film...Frodo was always my boy..(well maybe Samwise) but NOW, post 
films-- My only problem...much like somebody's brother resembling 
Orli...MY SON LOOKS JUST LIKE FRODO!! No more shipper appeal for Mommy. 
nope...just gotta get that ring dumped and back to the shire thank you.


On Saturday, July 26, 2003, at 01:38  AM, Dan Feeney wrote:

> Frodo was
> my favourite character in LoTR (an amazing confession - everyone else
> just loves legolas or gimli or gandalf or aragorn or bombadil or sam
> or arwen or galadriel or eowyn etc. etc.

Constant Vigilance!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From wgouine1 at mac.com  Sat Jul 26 14:23:45 2003
From: wgouine1 at mac.com (Peter Paul)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:23:45 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Bloom, Wood, Oldman
In-Reply-To: <bft457+ki2a@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <C3CFD6CA-BF74-11D7-96A8-0003935103DC@mac.com>

Except the tatoos..I don't get it? I need the meaning behind those 
marks on his chest... Can anyone see under his sleeve?
On Saturday, July 26, 2003, at 01:38  AM, Dan Feeney wrote:

> But as for Oldman as Sirius - well, he looks pretty Siriusy to me.
> Looks like a man who just escaped from a dementor guarded prison and
> has been living on the lower edge.

Constant Vigilance!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From IAmLordCassandra at aol.com  Sat Jul 26 14:25:10 2003
From: IAmLordCassandra at aol.com (IAmLordCassandra at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:25:10 EDT
Subject: accents/dialects in other languages...
Message-ID: <14d.220b6c4d.2c53e946@aol.com>


I have no idea how this question popped into my head.  However, I thought 
some of you may be able to answer since you have copies of HP in other languages. 


So, here goes... 

How do they right out the accents/dialects in other languages? Or do they 
only do that in the English version?   I'm not too familar with other languages 
(aside from my two years of French and the Japanese I'm starting....and a bit 
of Russian and Polish from my family, but I'm straying now....).  

~Cassie~ 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 26 18:18:59 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 11:18:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: tinyurl.com {was} Santas worried about being hassled by HP
In-Reply-To: <bfq7jk+7v8o@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030726181859.48132.qmail@web21108.mail.yahoo.com>

Anne U:
> Here's how to avoid all those "some
> assembly required" web links that 
> drive EVERYONE crazy.
> 
> http://tinyurl.com
> 
> It will change your life :)

Well, unless anyone can point to a downside 
to the use of this, I'll do my best to use it 
from now on in addition to the original 
url (there for the record).  Thanks for 
the pointer!

Petra
a
n  :)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com



From random832 at rcbooks.org  Sat Jul 26 18:09:34 2003
From: random832 at rcbooks.org (Random)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 13:09:34 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Bloom, Wood, Oldman
In-Reply-To: <bft457+ki2a@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <5000EE5A-BF94-11D7-A615-0003939A0BA2@rcbooks.org>


On Saturday, Jul 26, 2003, at 00:38 America/Indianapolis, Dan Feeney 
wrote:

> Snape's [...] not even close to being sinister
> enough, by about 146 shades of grey.

Funny, a lot of us think that about the book version, too.

--Random832




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 26 20:29:42 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 16:29:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Happy Birthday, Meg and Kristin!
Message-ID: <20030726202942.69319.qmail@web41110.mail.yahoo.com>

*sneaks into the party room laden with decorations and
food, hoping no one notices she's a day late*

Okay, you caught me sneaking in. Hey, don't throw the
food. I know I'm late and I feel bad already. Sincere
apologies to Meg and Kristin for being late. Dare I
admit it's because I'd been celebrating my
anniversary?

Yesterday's birthday honourees, as you already know,
are Meg and Kristin. Belated birthday owls can be sent
care of this list or directly to mdemeran at hotmail.com
and alyeskakc at aol.com

I hope you had magical days that brought everything
you wished for.

Happy Birthday, Meg!
Happy Birthday, Kristin!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf

=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From rvotaw at i-55.com  Sat Jul 26 21:24:49 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 16:24:49 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter]Sirius/ Orlando Bloom
References: <C3CFD6CA-BF74-11D7-96A8-0003935103DC@mac.com>
Message-ID: <00de01c353bc$59631a90$c49fcdd1@l3820.tjdo.com>

Peter Paul wrote:

> Except the tatoos..I don't get it? I need the meaning behind those
> marks on his chest... Can anyone see under his sleeve?

What is the deal with the tatoos?  When is Sirius supposed to have gotten
these tatoos?  Before Azkaban?  Or at Azkaban?  If they're supposed to be
markings of a prisoner, I'll go along with that.

Annemehr wrote:

> as much fun), and then one for a movie called "Hidalgo"
> starring VIGGO MORTENSEN!  It looks really good, too.

Oh, wow, I just went and watched the trailer on IMDB.  Viggo Mortensen AND
horses?  It doesn't get any better than that.

> wondering how Elijah Wood would be in a movie where he can
> look more like a man

That would be interesting.  Except for LOTR I've only seen him in movies as
a child.  He was an adorable child, those blue eyes are incredible.

Richelle





From przepla at ipartner.com.pl  Sat Jul 26 23:49:48 2003
From: przepla at ipartner.com.pl (Przemyslaw Plaskowicki)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 01:49:48 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] accents/dialects in other languages...
In-Reply-To: <14d.220b6c4d.2c53e946@aol.com>
References: <14d.220b6c4d.2c53e946@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3F23139C.9050601@ipartner.com.pl>

On 7/26/2003 4:25 PM, IAmLordCassandra at aol.com wrote:
> I have no idea how this question popped into my head.  However, I thought 
> some of you may be able to answer since you have copies of HP in other languages. 
> 
> 
> So, here goes... 
> 
> How do they right out the accents/dialects in other languages? Or do they 
> only do that in the English version?   I'm not too familar with other languages 
> (aside from my two years of French and the Japanese I'm starting....and a bit 
> of Russian and Polish from my family, but I'm straying now....).  

I'll try cover Polish version. Since Polish practically does not have
any dialects that could be used as a substitution everybody in the book 
are using standard Polish -- even Hagrid. Notable exception to this are 
foreigners who in the Polish translation speak Polish as would speak any 
foreigner, and to create that is quite easy (see:
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_language: "Polish is often said to 
be one of the most difficult languages for non-native speakers to learn.")

Hope that helps,
Pshemekan





From gabolamx at yahoo.com.mx  Sun Jul 27 02:47:48 2003
From: gabolamx at yahoo.com.mx (Gabriela)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 02:47:48 -0000
Subject: accents/dialects in other languages...
In-Reply-To: <14d.220b6c4d.2c53e946@aol.com>
Message-ID: <bfvegk+n5d2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, IAmLordCassandra at a... wrote:
> 
> 
> How do they right out the accents/dialects in other languages? Or 
do they 
> only do that in the English version?   I'm not too familar with 
other languages 
> (aside from my two years of French and the Japanese I'm 
starting....and a bit 
> of Russian and Polish from my family, but I'm straying now....).  
> 
> ~Cassie~ 
> 


Hello everybody, 
In the Spanish version you don't read Hagrid's accent (which is a 
loss), but I think it would be VERY difficult to give Hagrid an 
accent in Spanish; we have lots of different accents but I can't see 
how it could be done (Hagrid's accent). I'm grateful I can read the 
books in English because you lose half the "feeling" reading 
translations; I'm not saying they are bad, it's just not the same.

Gabriela
who spent almost a week reading the first 100 pages of LOTR because 
she insisted on reading them in English




From hebrideanblack at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 27 03:48:47 2003
From: hebrideanblack at earthlink.net (Wendy St John)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 20:48:47 -0700
Subject: My Review/Photos of Nimbus
Message-ID: <410-22003702734847517@earthlink.net>

Hello, Everyone!

Just a quick note to let you know that I've started writing my review/diary
from Nimbus, 2003, which can be found on my LiveJournal: 

http://www.livejournal.com/users/hebrideanblack/

I thought I'd post a notice here, as I thought there might be people here
who attended the convention and aren't members of the convention group
(where I also posted a notice). Plus, I thought  there might be those of
you who weren't able to go, but are still interested in reading about what
went on. It was a really great convention, I loved it, loved it, loved it.
If you want to hear my thoughts in rather more detail, check out the LJ. :-)

I've written my thoughts/experiences of Getting There, Thursday and the
Friday daytime programming. When you go to the journal, don't start with
the entry at the top - go down to Nimbus Diary 1, if you want to read them
in order. I'll be adding more entries as time permits - I'll post another
notice here when I've finished, if you'd rather go and read it all at once.
I'm rather long-winded, though, so it might be best to experience it in
sections <G>

I've also posted all my photos from Nimbus in various places for your
enjoyment. They can be found in the Photo section of the convention group,
and also at Godric's Hollow (which is worth a visit in any case - it's a
gorgeous site). There is also a Flip Album online which has somewhat more
annotation than the other uploads, but lower resolution pictures. The links
to all these places can also be found at my LJ. (Sorry not to put them
here, as well. But I'm just feeling a bit lazy after spending the last
several hours typing up my diaries). 

Enjoy!

Wendy St John
hebrideanblack at earthlink.net









From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Jul 27 05:12:41 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 05:12:41 -0000
Subject: being sorted
In-Reply-To: <bfstvt+pjks@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bfvn09+2447@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "phoebesophia" 
<phoebesophia at y...> wrote:
> catlady
> woman you rock! thanks so much!

Thank you!

>  i couldn't get the 7dragons site to run for me, but i really 
>  appreciate that you included the questions. 

It should be accessible via http://icehouse.7dragons.net/ 
If you get on the page that begins
"vh.7dragons.net
What It Is, and How It Began
(The Legend)"
and you scroll down past
"What It Is, and How It Began
(The Reality)"
and you scroll all the way to the bottom of the page, you should 
find: "Click Here to Get Sorted 
(Yes, it's the original Harry Potter version of the Sorting Hat. Stay 
tuned for an all-new VH version...) "

> and, yes, i'd love to have a conversation about how they correspond 
> to the houses.  

Okay, maybe start at the bottom?

> > 
> > I would rather:
> > ()cook .............................. ()clean
My answer varies according to my mood, as I don't like to do EITHER 
of those things. I don't know what the answers would be supposed to 
mean. Maybe "cook" for creative and "clean" for non-creative? But I 
would have expected creative people in all Houses.

> > ()conquer ........................... ()succeed
I imagine that "conquer" is Slytherin and "succeed" is everyone else. 
Because I imagine that "conquer" is that no one else got what they 
want, while "succeed" is that I got what I wanted, regardless of 
whether anyone else got goodies too.

> > ()put things together ............... ()take things apart

> > ()accept defeat gracefully .......... ()plot my revenge
I imagine that "plot my revenge" is a Slytherin trait. Would it also 
be a Gryffindor trait? 

> > ()play with fingerpaints ............ ()play with building blocks
My answer varies according to my mood, as I don't like to do EITHER
of those things. I wonder if this supposed to distinguish between 
logical (building blocks) and Like-Luna-Lovegood (fingerpaints) 
people? How would that relate to Houses?

> > ()dream ............................. ()imagine
I got into a discussion with a friend about what do "dream" and 
"imagine" even mean. I thought that "dream" was like daydream, 
fantasizing a nice future without any plan of how to get there or 
even if it's possible, and "imagine" was a slightly more realistic 
plan of how to get to that nice future, and my friend thought almost 
exactly the opposite, that "dream" is aiming for your true life goal 
and "imagine" is idle daydreaming.

> > ( take my time on what I'm doing .... ()move along to the next 
thing

> > ()be entertained .................... ()be informed

> > ()write ............................. ()draw

> > ()wash the car ...................... ()do the laundry
I said "do the laundry" because I *do* do my laundry, because it 
is necessary, because I have to have clean clothes to go to work in, 
and I don't wash the car, partly because it's Tim's car and partly 
because it drives just fine dirty. But I don't know what the Sorting 
Hat was getting at with this question. An attempt to find out if 
people would rather be indoors or outdoors? Which wouldn't apply to 
people who do their laundry in a tin tub in the yard.




From catlady at wicca.net  Sun Jul 27 05:15:58 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 05:15:58 -0000
Subject: I left this out
Message-ID: <bfvn6e+c5a4@eGroups.com>

Google found me ANOTHER website:
http://www.geocities.com/colin_creevey_has_nothing_on_us/sortinghat.ht
ml




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Jul 27 15:02:26 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 15:02:26 -0000
Subject: Reminder - Weekly Chat 
Message-ID: <1059318146.21.62508.m16@yahoogroups.com>


We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Weekly Chat 

Date: Sunday, July 27, 2003 
Time: 11:00AM - 7:00PM CDT (GMT-05:00) 

Hi everyone! 

Don't forget, chat happens today, 11 am Pacific, 2 pm Eastern, 7
pm UK time. *Chat times are not changing for Daylight
Saving/Summer Time.*  Chat generally goes on for about 5 hours,
but can last as long as people want it to last.

Go into any Yahoo chat room and type /join HP:1 
For further info, see the Humongous BigFile, section 3.3.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/hbfile.html#33

Hope to see you there! 

 





From kadede at skynet.be  Sun Jul 27 20:54:15 2003
From: kadede at skynet.be (kadede)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 22:54:15 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: accents/dialects in other languages...
In-Reply-To: <bfvegk+n5d2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <MABBIPIHHCOKMKKOOPPIKEMCDNAA.kadede@skynet.be>

In the Flemish version (on DVD that is) Hagrid speaks a 'clean' version of
West Flemish (from the region close to France where World War 1 (1914-1918)
took place). In real life the average Flemish speaker will have problems
understanding the real thing, but Hagrid speaks the stylised version.
Clearly supposed to be West Flemish, but not the real thing. I have no idea
what the Dutch version is like, as we in Belgium only get the Flemish
version. FYI Flemish and Dutch only differ a bit, something like the UK and
USA English (some 95 % the same).
As I have the English books myself, I don't know what the Dutch/Flemish
version looks like (in print there is even less difference between the two
languages) but as they've taken the accent into account in the movie it must
be there in the books.
Karleen
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Gabriela [mailto:gabolamx at yahoo.com.mx]
  Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 4:48 AM
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: accents/dialects in other languages...


  --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, IAmLordCassandra at a... wrote:
  >
  >
  > How do they right out the accents/dialects in other languages? Or
  do they
  > only do that in the English version?   I'm not too familar with
  other languages
  > (aside from my two years of French and the Japanese I'm
  starting....and a bit
  > of Russian and Polish from my family, but I'm straying now....).
  >
  > ~Cassie~
  >


  Hello everybody,
  In the Spanish version you don't read Hagrid's accent (which is a
  loss), but I think it would be VERY difficult to give Hagrid an
  accent in Spanish; we have lots of different accents but I can't see
  how it could be done (Hagrid's accent). I'm grateful I can read the
  books in English because you lose half the "feeling" reading
  translations; I'm not saying they are bad, it's just not the same.

  Gabriela
  who spent almost a week reading the first 100 pages of LOTR because
  she insisted on reading them in English


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              ADVERTISEMENT




  ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

  Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/

  Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material
from posts to which you're replying!

  Is your message...
  An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
  Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
  Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
  None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
  Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods --
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  Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
  ____________________________________________________________

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From boggles at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 27 22:10:00 2003
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:10:00 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter]Sirius/ Orlando Bloom
In-Reply-To: <00de01c353bc$59631a90$c49fcdd1@l3820.tjdo.com>
References: <C3CFD6CA-BF74-11D7-96A8-0003935103DC@mac.com>
 <00de01c353bc$59631a90$c49fcdd1@l3820.tjdo.com>
Message-ID: <p05200f00bb49fd1f3125@[192.168.1.100]>

At 4:24 PM -0500 7/26/03, Richelle Votaw wrote:
>
>Oh, wow, I just went and watched the trailer on IMDB.  Viggo Mortensen AND
>horses?  It doesn't get any better than that.

One of the LotR fan communities I occasionally read has taken to 
referring to _Hidalgo_ as "Viggo dirty on a horse!".  :)



>That would be interesting.  Except for LOTR I've only seen him in movies as
>a child.  He was an adorable child, those blue eyes are incredible.

Well, Elijah Wood was only 18 when they cast him for LotR - he hasn't 
had a whole lot of grown-up time . . .

. . . And he seems to be one of those male actors who (a) is shorter 
than normal, (b) has a naturally fairly high speaking voice with a 
bit of a break to it, and (c) has really insense light eyes.  This 
combination tends to lead to playing high-school or college-aged 
characters for forever, or at least for way too long.  It took 
Michael J. Fox until he was almost forty to overcome this.  Tobey 
Maguire has made some comments that _Seabiscuit_ is his attempt to 
escape the category.  I suspect Wood will be in it at least through 
his twenties.

-- 

  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles(at)earthlink.net
"It is not knowledge, but the act of learning, not possession but the 
act of getting there, which grants the greatest enjoyment. "
	- Gauss, in a Letter to Bolyai, 1808.



From anneu53714 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 28 03:27:17 2003
From: anneu53714 at yahoo.com (Anne)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 03:27:17 -0000
Subject: Had to share this (OotP spoiler in case anyone hasn't managed to read it yet)
Message-ID: <bg256l+cva1@eGroups.com>

I have been reading OotP to my daughter (who will be 7 on August 
20th) for almost five weeks, and we're finally into the climactic 
part of the book. Tonight we read "Beyond the Veil" and when we got 
to where Sirius went "beyond the veil" I was all choked up (as I was 
the first time I read it 5 weeks ago) and stopped reading. I looked 
at Maya and she just had this completely SHOCKED look on her face and 
she was unable to say anything for several minutes, just kept staring 
out into space. I told her it was alright to feel sad about Sirius 
and we talked for a few minutes about what it might mean to "go 
beyond the veil". (Maya has already attended two funerals, one for a 
great-uncle and another for a former neighbor, so she is perhaps a 
bit more aware of death than most kids her age.)

Anyway a few minutes later, I was back in her room and she had 
overturned a wastebasket and put a sign SIRIUS in front of it, as if 
it were a tombstone. She also took a fake poinsettia and placed it on 
top of the "tombstone" like memorial flowers, and put an artificial 
flower in a little pot in front of the "tombstone", and wore a doily 
on her head (perhaps a Winky impression?). Then she led us in a very 
short memorial service (I am quoting her):

"Sirius Black was a very nice man. He was Harry Potter's godfather. 
And if he had been more careful he would still be alive."

God, that kid scares me sometimes.

Anne U
(still amazed)





From rvotaw at i-55.com  Mon Jul 28 03:37:32 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 22:37:32 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Had to share this (OotP spoiler in case anyone hasn't managed to read it yet)
References: <bg256l+cva1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <014e01c354b9$948fa270$979fcdd1@l3820.tjdo.com>

Anne U wrote:

> top of the "tombstone" like memorial flowers, and put an artificial
> flower in a little pot in front of the "tombstone", and wore a doily
> on her head (perhaps a Winky impression?). Then she led us in a very
> short memorial service (I am quoting her):
>
> "Sirius Black was a very nice man. He was Harry Potter's godfather.
> And if he had been more careful he would still be alive."

That is so sweet!  I just love the things kids can come up with.  At least
the brighter kids.  You know, I'm generally stuck with (in my extended day
program) ten year olds who see my keychain and ask me if Harry Potter is my
son.  Er, no.  (I'm 26 for goodness sake!)  I momentarily debated a lecture
on reality and fantasy, then decided just to say no and move on with life.

Now, back to Sirius.  I'm the typical movie type I suppose, I did honestly
scream out a very long and dramatic "Noooooooooo!"  Then finished the page
gasping for breath while my mother (sitting in a chair nearby and forbidden
from touching my OOP books, even though there were already two at this point
because she has a nasty habit of reading the backs of books first and
telling the endings) kept saying "Who is it?  Who is it?  Is it Dumbledore?"

I didn't cry until hours later.  Out of boredom at a bridal shower my mind
kept wandering back to OOP, and to Sirius, and it hit me that (even though
none of it's real anyway) he was gone.  So there I am sniffling, trying not
to cry during what is supposed to be a happy occasion!

Richelle





From rvotaw at i-55.com  Mon Jul 28 03:47:33 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 22:47:33 -0500
Subject: HP related things
Message-ID: <016b01c354ba$fdcb1160$979fcdd1@l3820.tjdo.com>

As there isn't as much excitement in this part of the country over OOP as in many other places, I was delighted to see this sign up (at a Mini Storage place, of all things):

"Which book?  Harry or Hillary?  Wiz or Witch?"

I got a laugh out of that.

Something else rather amusing, earlier this month I was attending a very large teacher convention with various sessions and people from all over the state.  My friend and I were standing in line to sign in at the registration desk, and I, of course, had my Hogwarts booksack on my back.  I heard a voice a ways back in line say "Oh, look, she teaches at Hogwarts."  :D

Richelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From Erthena at aol.com  Mon Jul 28 04:18:54 2003
From: Erthena at aol.com (werebearloony)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 04:18:54 -0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter]Sirius/ Orlando Bloom
In-Reply-To: <p05200f00bb49fd1f3125@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <bg287e+d2h5@eGroups.com>

Wow, I can't believe I started this, I thought I was kinda mean, I'm 
just sick to death of being one of the few female (non-movie LOTR) 
fans I know and kinda burst.  I also understand what someone ment 
when they said that setting 1000 Legolas fangirls on someone wasn't 
humane :-D
--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Jennifer Boggess Ramon 
<boggles at e...> wrote:
> At 4:24 PM -0500 7/26/03, Richelle Votaw wrote:
> >
> >Oh, wow, I just went and watched the trailer on IMDB.  Viggo 
Mortensen AND
> >horses?  It doesn't get any better than that.
> 
> One of the LotR fan communities I occasionally read has taken to 
> referring to _Hidalgo_ as "Viggo dirty on a horse!".  :)
I can't wait either, I liked the fact that both of the movies 
(pirates and hidalgo) are being produced by disney, just an amusing 
factoid.
Speaking of pirates I loved it.  opening day was my friends B-day so 
we had a bit of and adventure beforehand, way fun.  anyway I'm glad 
to see there are so many LOTR/HP fans out there.  I just wonder are 
there any LOTR/HP/Star Wars people out there or am I the only one?
Loving Legolas Always
~~loony




From wgouine1 at mac.com  Mon Jul 28 12:49:41 2003
From: wgouine1 at mac.com (Peter Paul)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:49:41 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] HP related things
In-Reply-To: <016b01c354ba$fdcb1160$979fcdd1@l3820.tjdo.com>
Message-ID: <F46B39EE-C0F9-11D7-89CC-0003935103DC@mac.com>

Are they hiring? I am so sick of my administartion!!  I would love to 
move across the pond!

On Sunday, July 27, 2003, at 11:47  PM, Richelle Votaw wrote:

> "Oh, look, she teaches at Hogwarts."

Constant Vigilance!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon Jul 28 13:49:45 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:49:45 -0000
Subject: Application for a post at Hogwarts
In-Reply-To: <F46B39EE-C0F9-11D7-89CC-0003935103DC@mac.com>
Message-ID: <bg39lp+a73q@eGroups.com>

> Are they hiring? I am so sick of my administartion!!  I would love 
to 
> move across the pond!

Dear Wendy,

Your Owl was most gratefully received a few minutes ago.  I am 
delighted to tell you that we do in fact have a vacant teaching post 
at Hogwarts, for a Professor in Defence Against the Dark Arts.

The requirements for the post are as follows:

a firm commitment to fight against the Lord Voldemort and his 
followers - as long as we are against him we are on the same side;

willingness to co-operate with the Hogwarts teaching staff, 
particularly Professor Snape, the Potions Master;

a passion for Quidditch (support for Puddlemere United, while 
desirable, is not necessary);

enjoyment of the school song.

Competence in Defence Against the Dark Arts and an ability to teach 
and motivate children effectively, while considered helpful, are 
negotiable and have often been dispensed with in the past.

I look forward to receiving your completed curriculum vitae.

Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!

Albus Dumbledore

PS, at his insistence I enclose a disclaimer from Cornelius Fudge

From: Fudge, Cornelius, Minister for Magic
To: Whom it may concern
cc: Umbridge, Dolores; Malfoy, Lucius

The Ministry of Magic cannot be held liable in the event of premature 
death, memory loss, constructive dismissal, kidnapping and 
impersonation, or inter-species harrasment.  All Hogwarts teaching 
posts are at employee's own risk.  Albus Dumbledore is an obsolete 
dingbat.

Have a nice day!




From timregan at microsoft.com  Mon Jul 28 15:26:44 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:26:44 -0000
Subject: Voldemort and Lance's fifth Tour de France victory
Message-ID: <bg3fbk+6ea3@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

Some of you may be expecting Lord Voldemort to die at the end of 
Book Seven (i.e. in 1997 / 1998), but I have it on good authority 
that by 2003 he is a professional cyclist on the US Postal Service 
team. Yes, that's right; Tom Riddle helped Lance Armstrong to his 
fifth consecutive Tour de France victory. Perhaps this explains why 
Lance doesn't test positive for banned substances, they should 
instead test for illegal jinxes.

Here's the authoritative quote (glossary: Dura-Ace is Shimano's top 
of the line group-set, i.e. brakes, gears, crank etc).

"The boys in Blue on the U.S. Postal Services team have been 
rolling '04 Dura-Ace for a good bit of the season already, which 
means it gets the all-important approval of you-know-who." 
(`Bicycling', USA September edition, p. 58).

Cheers,

Dumbledad.





From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Mon Jul 28 15:35:31 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:35:31 -0000
Subject: Voldemort and Lance's fifth Tour de France victory
In-Reply-To: <bg3fbk+6ea3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bg3fs3+tgtc@eGroups.com>

Tim wrote:

>Tom Riddle helped Lance Armstrong to his 
> fifth consecutive Tour de France victory. Perhaps this explains 
>why Lance doesn't test positive for banned substances, they should 
> instead test for illegal jinxes.

I have a different theory.

I believe Lance Armstrong sold his soul to the *Devil*!

Uh-huh.  Mephistopheles, Diablo, the Prince of Darkness his own 
self.  Don't pretend you don't who what I'm talking about, either!

Haven't you ever wondered why some of these athletes can start 
smashing world records yet never test positive for performance-
enhancing drugs?  How gymnasts can contort their bodies like that 
when I can barely touch my toes without bending my knees?  How 
anyone can grow to be 7'2" and still be quick enough for basketball, 
when I can't even sink a free throw?  The answer is obvious -- they 
cut a deal with Beelzebub himself!

Cindy -- who was offered slimmer thighs in exchange for her soul, 
but who is holding out for a much better deal





From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 28 15:46:00 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:46:00 -0000
Subject: Application for a post at Hogwarts
In-Reply-To: <bg39lp+a73q@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bg3gfo+eo32@eGroups.com>

Albus Dumbledore wrote:
 
> I look forward to receiving your completed curriculum vitae.

<gasp>  I hope Wendy doesn't have a head start!  Good thing I've been 
training my owl in speed flying.  <ties hastily-scribbled CV to owl's 
leg>  Hogwarts, quickly!  Go! 

Amy Z




From joym999 at aol.com  Tue Jul 29 00:57:59 2003
From: joym999 at aol.com (joywitch_m_curmudgeon)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 00:57:59 -0000
Subject: Application for a post at Hogwarts
In-Reply-To: <bg3gfo+eo32@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bg4gqn+d08a@eGroups.com>

Joywitch's cat, Chewie, jumps out of his hiding place and catches 
both Amy's and Wendy's owls.  Leaving them dazed and bruised, he 
takes the letters fastened to their legs in his teeth and brings them 
to Joywitch, who gives him a small, squeaky mouse.

Joywitch points her wand at Wendy's letter, and it dissolves into 
dust.  Then she waves her wand at Amy's letter, and the signature 
changes from "Amy Ziffenplatzen" to "Joywitch M. Curmudgeon."  She 
reseals the letter, takes an owl out of her pocket, fastens the 
letter to its leg, and sends it off to Hogwarts.

She gives Chewie another treat, then sends him back to his hiding 
place.

"We'll just see who's better at the Dark Arts," she chortles, as she 
sits down to wait.




From DaveH47 at mindspring.com  Tue Jul 29 07:15:55 2003
From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:15:55 -0000
Subject: A photo of "Tonks"!!
Message-ID: <bg56vb+rfb7@eGroups.com>

Hi all!

For an authentic photo of Tonks (pink hair and all!), turn to page
79 of the August issue of _Smithsonian_ magazine!

Well, okay, it's really American chess superstar Jennifer Shahade,
but it *could* have been Tonks, especially if she made her
hair appropriately spikey...  Still one can dream. :)

--
Dave (Women's chess fan who wonders if Tonks might play Ron...) :)






From rvotaw at i-55.com  Tue Jul 29 17:24:07 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:24:07 -0500
Subject: Harry Potter glasses
Message-ID: <007701c355f6$38887a90$ffa2cdd1@l3820.tjdo.com>

Hi everyone,

I know we've all seen Harry Potter style glasses galore, kid size, adult size, etc.  But has anyone seen doll size ones?  American Girl makes a pair, but those are too small, I need some to fit a 22" doll, lifesize newborn proportionally.  I've found one site that sells them, but I was trying to avoid paying more for shipping than the cost of the glasses!  Has anyone seen them in craft stores or online (perhaps where they have more than one thing that I want to buy!)?

Thanks!

Richelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From heidit at netbox.com  Tue Jul 29 17:32:01 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:32:01 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Harry Potter glasses
In-Reply-To: <007701c355f6$38887a90$ffa2cdd1@l3820.tjdo.com>
References: <007701c355f6$38887a90$ffa2cdd1@l3820.tjdo.com>
Message-ID: <1059499925.230AEFBD@s5.dngr.org>

Try build-a-bear which I think has an online component. They had them 
about 2 years ago...


On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 1:24PM -0500, Richelle Votaw wrote:
> Real-To:  "Richelle Votaw" <rvotaw at i-55.com>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I know we've all seen Harry Potter style glasses galore, kid size, 
> adult size, etc.  But has anyone seen doll size ones?  American Girl 
> makes a pair, but those are too small, I need some to fit a 22" doll, 
> lifesize newborn proportionally.  I've found one site that sells them, 
> but I was trying to avoid paying more for shipping than the cost of the 
> glasses!  Has anyone seen them in craft stores or online (perhaps where 
> they have more than one thing that I want to buy!)?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Richelle
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin 
> Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary 
> material from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to 
> HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- 
> MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
> Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



From hypercolor99 at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 29 17:32:16 2003
From: hypercolor99 at hotmail.com (alice_loves_cats)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:32:16 -0000
Subject: accents/dialects in other languages...
In-Reply-To: <MABBIPIHHCOKMKKOOPPIKEMCDNAA.kadede@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <bg6b30+oq66@eGroups.com>

<snipping many people's comments on dialects in other languages>

Alice:

To complicate matters further:

In Hungarian, the books use a sort of basic "accent we give people who
are supposed to have an accent" - it's not really an accent of any
specific region, more like "something different", a medley, that
everybody can understand, and tht can be conveyed in print. Something
like what someone would speak if they had left their home county and
come to live in the capital a couple of decades ago. It's acceptable
mainly because there is realtively little variation in accents in
today's Hungary anyway: none of the enormous chaos that goes on in the
English-speaking world. There are only 15 million Hungarians
altogether, and only 10 million living in the country. 

Love, Alice




From rvotaw at i-55.com  Tue Jul 29 17:42:38 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:42:38 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Harry Potter glasses
References: <007701c355f6$38887a90$ffa2cdd1@l3820.tjdo.com> <1059499925.230AEFBD@s5.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <008f01c355f8$ce651fd0$ffa2cdd1@l3820.tjdo.com>

Heidi wrote:

> Try build-a-bear which I think has an online component. They had them 
> about 2 years ago...

Oh my goodness.  You are absolutely right.  And guess what?  Want proof that I'm an idiot?  I HAVE a Build-A-Bear Wizard bear.  As in, Harry Potter.  As in, little black glasses just the right size.   Okay, that said, I'm going back to my Thinking Maps workshop and try again. :)

Richelle




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From hebrideanblack at earthlink.net  Tue Jul 29 20:48:18 2003
From: hebrideanblack at earthlink.net (Wendy St John)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:48:18 -0700
Subject: Application for a Post at Hogwarts
Message-ID: <410-22003722920481849@earthlink.net>

I was very surprised to see my name in this letter from the Ministry
(forwarded by David):

> Dear Wendy,
>
> Your Owl was most gratefully received a few minutes ago.  I am 
> delighted to tell you that we do in fact have a vacant teaching post 
> at Hogwarts, for a Professor in Defence Against the Dark Arts.

<snip the rest>

Then, I realised that it was not actually meant for me, and I remembered
that there is now another Wendy posting to this list. For the longest time,
I've been the only Wendy (spelled this way) posting to this list and the
big list, as well (I even asked once, and was told I had claim to the name
<g>). Now that there are two of us, perhaps we can figure out a way to
differentiate, so people know which of us is doing the posting? Of course,
I haven't posted much here on OT in several months, so many of you may be
wondering who they heck I am anyway! <G> But if you read the big list, as
well, I've been posting rather a lot since the release of OoP. 

So, to the "new" Wendy (I put new in quotes, as for all I know she's been
on the list longer than I have, and only just recently started posting. I
joined in about February of 2002, IIRC), how about this - I'll start
signing my posts Wendy S. (I also usually put my e-mail address below, but
not always). If you'll start signing your posts with your surname's initial
as well, that will help people tell us apart. Unless your surname also
begins with an "S." In which case we'll need to come up with something
else. <g> I'm just suggesting this to avoid confusion - a while back,
another Cindy turned up and it took me a few weeks before I learned to
differentiate between Captain Cindy and the "new" one - Cindy who is
Snape's patronus. (my e-mail server is sort of stupid with the way it
identifies the person who originated the post, so I can't always go by
e-mail address). 

Also - were you at Nimbus? I met another Wendy there, and I'm wondering if
that was you. We only met very briefly, but I do remember you (if it was,
indeed you).

Let me know what you think, will you? :-)

Cheers!

Wendy S.
(Who has also applied for a position at Hogwarts, but not in DADA. I'll be
taking Care of Magical Creatures once Dumbledore wises up and finally sacks
Hagrid. <veg>)

Wendy St John
hebrideanblack at earthlink.net








From cantor at vgernet.net  Tue Jul 29 23:58:43 2003
From: cantor at vgernet.net (cantoramy)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:58:43 -0000
Subject: Mary GrandPre
Message-ID: <bg71nj+j0kh@eGroups.com>

If you know a picture framer or frame shop who is a member of the 
Professional Picture Framers of America (my husband is one), ask if 
you may borrow (or keep!) the new July 2003 issue of "Art & Frame 
Review." Mary GrandPre is the featured artist and the cover shows 
the beautiful illustration of Night Owl from a cover of Goosebumps. 
There are 2 Harry Potter color illustrations, althought small. One 
is the Time magazine cover and the other is the complete CoS cover 
all stretched out as one picture. Most of the illustrations are 
duplicates of those on her website, but not all. The interview is 
well written, but too short, and since it is in a trade magazine, it 
concentrates on her career. However, I learned she is leaving the 
snows of St. Paul, Minnesota for the beaches of Sarasota, Florida! 

Anyway, it is worth searching for if you are a fan.

cantoramy





From susannahlm at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 30 02:08:43 2003
From: susannahlm at yahoo.com (derannimer)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 02:08:43 -0000
Subject: The Fandom
Message-ID: <bg79bb+m8bd@eGroups.com>

You know, every once in a while, although not frequently, I realize how spoiled I am. 
Really, how spoiled everyone in this fandom is.

I'm a big fan of the USA series _Monk_, and I did a little poking about on the Internet, 
and there is *zilch* out there. *Zilch.* I'm not sure what I expected -- but it does 
seem hard that more fandoms can't have their TLC's, their Ebony's and Narcissa 
Malfoy's and Morrighan's, their Aberforth's Goats, their HPfGU's, their Elkins's and 
Cindy's -- Well, no, strike that. Even we've only got the one of those -- and their 
TBAY's. I mean, really, this fandom is so incredibly. . . *huge.* 

<duh>

And parts of this fandom are so incredibly *clever,* too. It really is hard for me to 
take the effort now to, say, find decently written Babylon Five fanfic -- I'm so used to 
using the "Point Me" feature on FA, and turning up hundreds of fics on just about any 
fool topic that I plug in. 

It's really kind of sad. Not that Harry Potter's got it, but that nothing else seems to. Or 
nothing else that I'm a huge fan of, anyway.




Derannimer




From anneu53714 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 30 02:44:57 2003
From: anneu53714 at yahoo.com (Anne)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 02:44:57 -0000
Subject: A photo of "Tonks"!!
In-Reply-To: <bg56vb+rfb7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bg7bf9+e158@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Dave Hardenbrook" 
<DaveH47 at m...> wrote:
 For an authentic photo of Tonks (pink hair and all!), turn to page
> 79 of the August issue of _Smithsonian_ magazine!
> 
> Well, okay, it's really American chess superstar Jennifer Shahade,
> but it *could* have been Tonks, especially if she made her
> hair appropriately spikey...  Still one can dream. :)
> 
> --
> Dave (Women's chess fan who wonders if Tonks might play Ron...) :)

Women's chess fan?? I foresee a cameo (sorry... wrong HP list) for 
Will Ferrell and Cheri Oteri as those insane Saturday Night Live 
cheerleaders who cheer for their school's team at the high school 
chess tournament. Sorry... I just had to say it...:-)

Anne U
(who assumes Tonks got an "O" in her Transfiguration O.W.L. and 
N.E.W.T. "...and all she had to do was act naturally")





From kaisenji at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 30 04:51:03 2003
From: kaisenji at yahoo.com (Kaisenji)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 04:51:03 -0000
Subject: Hi to all--California folks I met @ Nimbus
Message-ID: <bg7irn+bj6s@eGroups.com>

Oi!  Hope everyone had a blast at Nimbus! I met so
many awesome people including several of you from california! I
understand there are some regional groups for HPFGU and hopefully I
can hook up again with those same people for a pre/post-PoA
party/viewing.  Oh, and HI to everyone, so very glad to be here!
 Cheers
 Kai
 




From kaisenji at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 30 04:52:55 2003
From: kaisenji at yahoo.com (Kaisenji)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 04:52:55 -0000
Subject: Hi to all--California folks I met @ Nimbus
Message-ID: <bg7iv7+10mna@eGroups.com>

Oi!  Hope everyone had a blast at Nimbus! I met so
many awesome people including several of you from california! I
understand there are some regional groups for HPFGU and hopefully I
can hook up again with those same people for a pre/post-PoA
party/viewing.  Oh, and HI to everyone, so very glad to be here!
 Cheers
 Kai
 




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 30 12:09:14 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:09:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Happy Birthday, Christian!
Message-ID: <20030730120914.83624.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com>

*hangs streamers and balloons around the room and
starts looking for help to bring in the food*

Don't just stand there, grab some of the those trays
and set them on the tables. :)

Today's birthday honouree is Christian. Birthday owls
can be sent care of this list or directly to:
pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no

I hope your day is filled with fun, magic and time to
relax (knowing how hard you worked last week).

Happy Birthday, Christian!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf

=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
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From wgouine1 at mac.com  Wed Jul 30 12:45:44 2003
From: wgouine1 at mac.com (Peter Paul)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:45:44 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Application for a Post at Hogwarts
In-Reply-To: <410-22003722920481849@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BC522BC3-C28B-11D7-ACC8-0003935103DC@mac.com>


On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 04:48  PM, Wendy St John wrote:

> only just recently started posting

I have been lurking since about Feb too isn't that odd? Just started 
posting after OoP--Actually I can clear up the confusion by signing 
things Day which is my nickname and preferred moniker anyway.  I was 
laughing so hard with the DaDa position thread. It totally made my 
whole day. I think I have a tiny crush on Dumbledad. I keep hoping he 
will turn up at swim lessons or the grocery.  Sadly I did not attend 
Nimbus but my pic is posted on my profile.
peace,
Day
Constant Vigilance!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From terryljames at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 30 13:37:05 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:37:05 -0500
Subject: Two Cindys? was Application for a Post at Hogwarts
Message-ID: <BAY8-F17a1ZU6JONLLj0000d8f7@hotmail.com>


>From: "Wendy St John" <hebrideanblack at earthlink.net>

I'm just suggesting this to avoid confusion - a while back,
>another Cindy turned up and it took me a few weeks before I learned to
>differentiate between Captain Cindy and the "new" one - Cindy who is
>Snape's patronus. (my e-mail server is sort of stupid with the way it
>identifies the person who originated the post, so I can't always go by
>e-mail address).

Whoops--those are two different people?  Duh...well, I think I may have 
inadvertently insulted the one who helped me with my PDA questions, then.  
Sorry, whichever Cindy you are!  Which is which?

Terry LJ (feeling a bit embarrassed now) (but who includes LJ to distinguish 
between herself and any other Terrys on the list)

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From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Wed Jul 30 16:38:59 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:38:59 -0000
Subject: Two Cindys? (And Popular Names by Decade)
In-Reply-To: <BAY8-F17a1ZU6JONLLj0000d8f7@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bg8sb3+ldn4@eGroups.com>

Hi, all,

Terry wrote (about the proliferation of Cindys on the main list):

> Whoops--those are two different people?  

Yep.  Terry's recent TBAY Snape post gave me quite a start there.  I 
was reading along, and suddenly there was talk of a *Cindy.*  A 
Cindy who apparently likes Snape, no less!  ;-)  I scrambled around 
and did a search and figured out that we have a new Cindy.  <waves 
to New Cindy>


>Duh...well, I think I may have 
> inadvertently insulted the one who helped me with my PDA 
questions, then.  


I'm Cindy C.  Sin D.C.  Cindysphynx.  Captain Cindy at times.  And 
I'm the one who off-listed with you about the Dell PDA.  (Did it 
arrive yet?)  And no, I'm not insulted!

It's funny, though.  There aren't many Cindys these days, so I 
usually have the name all to myself.  Maybe it's making a comeback?

And now, for something completely different . . . 

When I was in the hospital having my third child, we hadn't settled 
on a name because we didn't know the baby's gender.  We brought with 
us a list of popular baby names by decade, and my husband showed it 
to the labor and delivery staff.  My attending nurse looked at the 
list and was so taken with it that, er, she abandoned *me* and ran 
off with it to show all the other nurses! 

Anyway, according to my research, "Cynthia" was the tenth most 
popular name for baby girls in the 1960s -- the decade in which I 
was born.

http://www.parentsoup.com/havefun/articles/0,,217650_561640-7,00.html

Cindy C. -- who never liked her name




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 30 16:55:11 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:55:11 -0000
Subject: Application for a post at Hogwarts
In-Reply-To: <bg4gqn+d08a@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bg8t9f+u294@eGroups.com>

So, we're going to play hardball, are we?

> Joywitch's cat, Chewie, jumps out of his hiding place and catches 
> both Amy's and Wendy's owls.  Leaving them dazed and bruised

Yeah, right.  I've met Chewie, and no owl he caught would stand a 
chance of escaping disembowelment.  Luckily, he only got Olympia* by 
a wingtip and she managed to get up to the top of the grandfather 
clock, where she is nursing her injury and glowering down at the 
killer cat.  I hope Wendy's owl fared as well.

> he 
> takes the letters fastened to their legs in his teeth and brings 
them 
> to Joywitch, who gives him a small, squeaky mouse.

Little does Joywitch know that that mouse is actually a fake wand 
transformed.  Nor does she know that Fred and George, from whom Ms. 
Ziffenplatzen acquired the mouse, *have* invented self-spelling wands 
and that the wand, when it reverts to its original form (maple, 
unicorn hair, 9 inches), will perform an Engorgio charm that 
transforms Chewie from a homicidal threat to birds into a homicidal 
threat to everything that lives.

> Then she waves her wand at Amy's letter, and the signature 
> changes from "Amy Ziffenplatzen" to "Joywitch M. Curmudgeon."  She 
> reseals the letter, takes an owl out of her pocket, fastens the 
> letter to its leg, and sends it off to Hogwarts.

Interesting . . . but does she examine the CV first?  Hm?  Had she 
done so, she might have avoided sending Dumbledore the claim that she 
can serve as both DADA teacher *and* chaplain (a post that has gone 
unfilled so long that Harry doesn't even know it ever existed).  But 
now, having sent another's CV, she might want to prepare for the 
interview, where Dumbledore, that polymath, will no doubt want her to 
discourse with him upon wizarding ethics, the question of life after 
ghosthood, and the differences between LOTR and HP theology.

> "We'll just see who's better at the Dark Arts," she chortles, as 
she 
> sits down to wait.

Defense, m'dear, defense!  If you want to teach the Dark Arts 
themselves, I believe there may be a post open at Durmstrang.

Amy Z

*that's Olympia the Brown owl.  <tips cap to Anne U for the owl-names 
inspiration>




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 30 17:00:17 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:00:17 -0000
Subject: Popular and Unpopular Names
In-Reply-To: <bg8sb3+ldn4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bg8tj1+cke2@eGroups.com>

> Cindy C. -- who never liked her name

I never liked mine either.  And here we had a chance to call 
ourselves anything we wanted and we picked the extremely subtle 
handles of Cindy C. and Amy Z.  D'oh!

Amy, wondering if it's too late to get everyone to call her Renata




From pinguthegreek at pinguthegreek.net  Wed Jul 30 17:06:33 2003
From: pinguthegreek at pinguthegreek.net (Pinguthegreek)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:06:33 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Popular and Unpopular Names
References: <bg8tj1+cke2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <039601c356bc$f0f93490$535fc487@personal>


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Amy Z 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 6:00 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Popular and Unpopular Names


  > Cindy C. -- who never liked her name

  I never liked mine either.  And here we had a chance to call 
  ourselves anything we wanted and we picked the extremely subtle 
  handles of Cindy C. and Amy Z.  D'oh!

  Well, I'm just glad my soon to be legally sister in law doesn't want to take the family name as we share the same first name. One of me in the world is enough. 

  Michelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From sandyluppino at comcast.net  Wed Jul 30 17:17:38 2003
From: sandyluppino at comcast.net (sjlupin)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:17:38 -0000
Subject: Lupin/Thewlis
Message-ID: <bg8uji+op6t@eGroups.com>

Ok, I saw the Newsweek article and the photo from the Shrieking 
Shack. No offense intended to David Thewlis, I'm sure he is a lovely 
man, but he looked *NOTHING* like my image of Lupin. Since I am 
hopelessly in love with this character, it is a bit distressing to 
me. :) How am I to fight movie infiltration? Is there help for me? A 
12-step program perhaps?

Anyone else have opinions on Thewlis as Lupin?

sjlupin




From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Wed Jul 30 18:12:07 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:12:07 -0000
Subject: Popular and Unpopular Names
In-Reply-To: <039601c356bc$f0f93490$535fc487@personal>
Message-ID: <bg91pn+ddsn@eGroups.com>

Amy wrote (of the delightfully short "Amy":

>   I never liked mine either.  And here we had a chance to call 
>   ourselves anything we wanted and we picked the extremely subtle 
>   handles of Cindy C. and Amy Z.  D'oh!

OK, 'fess up.  Why don't you like "Amy?"  Is it the "y" ending?  Or 
is it just too darn short?  Or something else?

Michelle wrote:

 
>   One of me in the world is enough. 

Who says?  ;-)

Cindy -- noting that "Michelle" was ranked one ahead of "Cynthia" in 
the 1960s




From pinguthegreek at pinguthegreek.net  Wed Jul 30 18:20:55 2003
From: pinguthegreek at pinguthegreek.net (Pinguthegreek)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:20:55 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Popular and Unpopular Names
References: <bg91pn+ddsn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <03bf01c356c7$54a33a90$535fc487@personal>



>   One of me in the world is enough. 


Ah, but there is only one me with my Christian name and surname. 

Michelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From terryljames at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 30 18:26:57 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:26:57 -0500
Subject: Popular and Unpopular names
Message-ID: <BAY8-F123qgct4oBAaN00019489@hotmail.com>




>From: "Cindy C." <cindysphynx at comcast.net>

>Terry wrote (about the proliferation of Cindys on the main list):
>
> >Duh...well, I think I may have
> > inadvertently insulted the one who helped me with my PDA
>questions, then.
>
>
>I'm Cindy C.  Sin D.C.  Cindysphynx.  Captain Cindy at times.  And
>I'm the one who off-listed with you about the Dell PDA.  (Did it
>arrive yet?)  And no, I'm not insulted!

Good!  :) (PDA arriving today, yay!) Just to get things clear...how do you 
feel about Snape?
And which ship are you captain of?


>Anyway, according to my research, "Cynthia" was the tenth most
>popular name for baby girls in the 1960s -- the decade in which I
>was born.
>
>
>Cindy C. -- who never liked her name


When my first daughter was born, the name Jordan was popular for boys, but 
not girls.  So we named her Jordyn, thinking that it was sufficiently 
unusual.  Apparently everybody in the South had the same idea, because out 
of 27 kids in first grade last year, six were named some variation of 
Jordan--one boy, five girls.  At least she was the only one with a "y".

Terry LJ

_________________________________________________________________
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http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963




From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 30 18:43:15 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:43:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Lupin/Thewlis
In-Reply-To: <bg8uji+op6t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030730184315.99121.qmail@web21103.mail.yahoo.com>

[moving from OTChatter to Movie]

sjlupin:
> Ok, I saw the Newsweek article
> and the photo from the Shrieking 
> Shack. No offense intended to
> David Thewlis, I'm sure he is a
> lovely man, but he looked *NOTHING*
> like my image of Lupin. Since I am 
> hopelessly in love with this
> character, it is a bit distressing to 
> me. :) How am I to fight movie
> infiltration? Is there help for me? A 
> 12-step program perhaps?
> 
> Anyone else have opinions on Thewlis
> as Lupin?

Yeah, shame they didn't look at that 
picture through a really good loupe 
before releasing it for publication...or 
maybe the others that caught Thewlis in 
a better facial expression captured 
someone else poorly.  <sigh>  Well, I 
don't know if this will help, but at 
least it's a good picture of Thewlis the 
person (as opposed to the character Lupin) 
- go to

http://www.wireimage.com/

then type in his name in "Search" box.  
IIRC, there are links to other pictures 
in the archives of the movie list.

Petra
a
n  :)

__________________________________
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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From andie at knownet.net  Wed Jul 30 18:43:54 2003
From: andie at knownet.net (grindieloe)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:43:54 -0000
Subject: Lupin/Thewlis
In-Reply-To: <bg8uji+op6t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bg93la+7p7p@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "sjlupin" <sandyluppino at c...> 
wrote:
> Ok, I saw the Newsweek article and the photo from the Shrieking 
> Shack. No offense intended to David Thewlis, I'm sure he is a 
lovely 
> man, but he looked *NOTHING* like my image of Lupin. Since I am 
> hopelessly in love with this character, it is a bit distressing to 
> me. :) How am I to fight movie infiltration? Is there help for me? 
A 
> 12-step program perhaps?
> 
> Anyone else have opinions on Thewlis as Lupin?
> 
> sjlupin


I also saw that Newsweek photo, and I couldn't bring myself to 
believe that Thewlis was Lupin.  I also had a totally different 
picture in my mind... and well, that wasn't it. :*(  I guess I 
expected him to be blonder and friendlier looking... maybe even with 
hair a bit longer.  I also had a different picture of the Shrieking 
Shack, but I guess I'll have to live with it.  

grindieloe 




From andie at knownet.net  Wed Jul 30 18:49:17 2003
From: andie at knownet.net (grindieloe)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:49:17 -0000
Subject: Harry / Hermione Picture
Message-ID: <bg93vd+q3rh@eGroups.com>

How about that Newsweek picture of Harry and Hermione (from PoA 
set)?  They seem very, ah, close... don't you think? *wink, wink*

grindieloe




From sandyluppino at comcast.net  Wed Jul 30 18:54:51 2003
From: sandyluppino at comcast.net (sjlupin)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:54:51 -0000
Subject: Lupin/Thewlis
In-Reply-To: <bg93la+7p7p@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bg949r+4k6n@eGroups.com>

> 
> I also saw that Newsweek photo, and I couldn't bring myself to 
> believe that Thewlis was Lupin.  I also had a totally different 
> picture in my mind... and well, that wasn't it. :*(  I guess I 
> expected him to be blonder and friendlier looking... maybe even 
with 
> hair a bit longer.  I also had a different picture of the Shrieking 
> Shack, but I guess I'll have to live with it.  
> 
> grindieloe

Same here - I picture him with sandy brown hair, definetly a little 
longer. Yup, friendly, sweet face. Oh and Dead Sexy. <grins and 
blushes>

sjlupin




From sandyluppino at comcast.net  Wed Jul 30 18:56:27 2003
From: sandyluppino at comcast.net (sjlupin)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:56:27 -0000
Subject: Lupin/Thewlis
In-Reply-To: <20030730184315.99121.qmail@web21103.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bg94cr+va0t@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Petra Pan <ms_petra_pan at y...> 
wrote:
> [moving from OTChatter to Movie]
> 
> sjlupin:
> > Ok, I saw the Newsweek article
> > and the photo from the Shrieking 
> > Shack. No offense intended to
> > David Thewlis, I'm sure he is a
> > lovely man, but he looked *NOTHING*
> > like my image of Lupin. Since I am 
> > hopelessly in love with this
> > character, it is a bit distressing to 
> > me. :) How am I to fight movie
> > infiltration? Is there help for me? A 
> > 12-step program perhaps?
> > 
> > Anyone else have opinions on Thewlis
> > as Lupin?
> 
> Yeah, shame they didn't look at that 
> picture through a really good loupe 
> before releasing it for publication...or 
> maybe the others that caught Thewlis in 
> a better facial expression captured 
> someone else poorly.  <sigh>  Well, I 
> don't know if this will help, but at 
> least it's a good picture of Thewlis the 
> person (as opposed to the character Lupin) 
> - go to
> 
> http://www.wireimage.com/
> 
> then type in his name in "Search" box.  
> IIRC, there are links to other pictures 
> in the archives of the movie list.
> 
> Petra
> a
> n  :)

Ok, that helps a little. Something about him reminds me a little of 
Alan Rickman. Can't put my finger on what. Rickman is fairly sexy; 
maybe he'll grow on me.  :)

sjlupin




From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 30 19:24:08 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:24:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Lupin/Thewlis
In-Reply-To: <bg94cr+va0t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030730192408.93272.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com>

sjlupin :
> Ok, that helps a little. Something
> about him reminds me a little of 
> Alan Rickman. Can't put my finger
> on what. Rickman is fairly sexy; 
> maybe he'll grow on me.  :)

Glad it helped.  <g>  I do however 
suggest that all further replies go to 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Movie

Sorry - forgot to put that URL in my last 
post.  There you shall find kindred souls.

Petra
a
n  :)

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Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 30 19:31:58 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:31:58 -0000
Subject: Popular and Unpopular Names
In-Reply-To: <bg91pn+ddsn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bg96fe+o4qb@eGroups.com>

The delightfully short Cindy <ducks> wrote:

> OK, 'fess up.  Why don't you like "Amy?"  Is it the "y" ending?  Or 
> is it just too darn short?  Or something else?

It seems kind of Jewish-American-Princessy to me.*  And kind of cute 
and girly-girlish.  I do not want to be any of those things.  And 
when I look at it in print I often think, "That's ME?," but maybe 
everyone has that experience, the way a word will look unreal if you 
write it over and over again.

I've thought from time to time of changing it, but stick with it 
because, well, it's my name.  However discontent I feel with it at 
times, I do seem to be trained to answer to it.**  Also, the task of 
choosing another one seems so momentous--like I'm defining myself for 
all time.  My middle name is an option, but it doesn't fit me much 
better than "Amy."

It just now occurred to me that maybe I should stop dreaming about 
one day having a daughter whom I name Terra, since I'm unlikely to 
get my dh's agreement anyway (he likes plain names), and just change 
*my* name to that.  Terra Ziffenplatzen . . . Terra 
Ziffenplatzen . . . what do y'all think?

Amy
who knows a Cynthia who changed her name

*Use of this term does not imply endorsement of the anti-Semitic, 
misogynist stereotype it describes.  Offer invalid in Utah, Wyoming 
and Guam.  Batteries not included.

**It's kind of like emigrating, which I think of doing periodically 
when yet another ______ [insert political party here] is elected 
President, or I read USA Today or The New Yorker, or I make the 
mistake of watching the Emmys and realize I am witnessing the decline 
of a once-great culture and there's not a damn thing I can do about 
it.  But even if I could find another country that I liked better, 
there's no escaping it:  I'm an American.




From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Wed Jul 30 19:36:51 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:36:51 -0000
Subject: Popular and Unpopular names
In-Reply-To: <BAY8-F123qgct4oBAaN00019489@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bg96oj+v62f@eGroups.com>

Terry wrote:

>Just to get things >clear...how do you 
> feel about Snape?

I, er, enjoy taunting the Snape fans.  Is that enough of an 
answer?  ;-)

> And which ship are you captain of?

I've been known to hang out on the Big Bang when I'm not at 
George's.  I have no idea who is among the crew, what with all the 
pushing and shoving that goes on there.  ;-)
 
Terry:

> When my first daughter was born, the name Jordan was popular for 
>boys, but 
> not girls.  So we named her Jordyn, thinking that it was 
>sufficiently 
> unusual.  

Hee!

I named my son "Christopher" although it was the second most popular 
name, after "Michael."  I worried there would be scores of boys 
named "Christopher" in his school.  In fact, there are almost none.  
The boys of his generation around here are named things 
like "Hamilton."

Go figure.

Cindy C.




From psychic_serpent at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 30 20:19:54 2003
From: psychic_serpent at yahoo.com (psychic_serpent)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:19:54 -0000
Subject: Lupin/Thewlis
In-Reply-To: <20030730192408.93272.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bg999a+j0sd@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Petra Pan 
<ms_petra_pan at y...> wrote:
> sjlupin :
> > Ok, that helps a little. Something
> > about him reminds me a little of 
> > Alan Rickman. Can't put my finger
> > on what. Rickman is fairly sexy; 
> > maybe he'll grow on me.  :)
 
Of course, it's possible that they weren't casting for sexiness. 
<g>  I like the way they're casting the MWPP generation because I 
think we're getting people who look like ordinary folks you could 
pass on the street and not notice, rather than amazingly beautiful 
people (even though in my mind Daniel Day-Lewis is still how I 
picture Sirius Black).  Somehow this makes them feel very real.  
(And did anyone notice that Timothy Spall has the OBE and a very 
impressive list of credits for someone who's playing a RAT?)

OTOH, a kid's movie franchise where they DO seem to be casting the 
adults to appeal to the parents and grandparents taking the kids to 
the movies is Spy Kids.  We just saw the new film, and the moms get 
to see Antonio Banderas, the dads get to see Carla Gugino (and Salma 
Hayek), the granddads have Holland Taylor and grandmoms Ricardo 
Montalban.  We were really showing our ages, though; our kids had no 
idea why we were howling over his "rich Corinthian leather" line... 
<vbg>

--Barb

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychic_Serpent
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb





From Malady579 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 30 21:33:54 2003
From: Malady579 at hotmail.com (Melody)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:33:54 -0000
Subject: Harry / Hermione Picture and Newsweek
In-Reply-To: <bg93vd+q3rh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bg9dk2+fckb@eGroups.com>

grindieloe wrote:
> How about that Newsweek picture of Harry and Hermione (from PoA 
> set)?  They seem very, ah, close... don't you think? *wink, wink*


I adore that picture.  
I see it as a brother protecting a sister though.  ;)


And when is this issue of Newsweek going to hit the newsstands?  I
went right to the store when I saw the pictures on Leaky but all I saw
was the issue about deficits in California.  Did I miss it?  


Melody






From andie at knownet.net  Wed Jul 30 21:55:36 2003
From: andie at knownet.net (grindieloe)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:55:36 -0000
Subject: Harry / Hermione Picture and Newsweek
In-Reply-To: <bg9dk2+fckb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bg9eso+8v5s@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Melody" <Malady579 at h...> 
wrote:
> grindieloe wrote:
> > How about that Newsweek picture of Harry and Hermione (from PoA 
> > set)?  They seem very, ah, close... don't you think? *wink, wink*
> 
> 
> I adore that picture.  
> I see it as a brother protecting a sister though.  ;)
> 
> 
> And when is this issue of Newsweek going to hit the newsstands?  I
> went right to the store when I saw the pictures on Leaky but all I 
saw
> was the issue about deficits in California.  Did I miss it?  
> 
> 
> Melody


I don't know... I've been trying to look for it on newsstands also, 
but no such luck!  Let me know if you find it!

grindie




From joym999 at aol.com  Thu Jul 31 00:44:36 2003
From: joym999 at aol.com (joywitch_m_curmudgeon)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 00:44:36 -0000
Subject: Popular and Unpopular Names
In-Reply-To: <bg8tj1+cke2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bg9opk+joim@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Amy Z" <lupinesque at y...> 
wrote:
> And here we had a chance to call 
> ourselves anything we wanted and we picked the extremely subtle 
> handles of Cindy C. and Amy Z.  D'oh!

Ahem.  Joy here.  Remember me?  The one who christened you Sin D.C. 
and Amy Ziffenplatzen, respectively?  Allow me to point out the 
beauty of a short, one or two syllable name ending in Y, with its 
pleasurable flexibility, allowing it to be easily manipulated, added 
on to, balanced against a lengthy last name, and delightfully crowed 
by admirers.

--Joywitch




From joym999 at aol.com  Thu Jul 31 00:46:41 2003
From: joym999 at aol.com (joywitch_m_curmudgeon)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 00:46:41 -0000
Subject: Popular and Unpopular Names
In-Reply-To: <bg96fe+o4qb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bg9oth+v435@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Amy Z" <lupinesque at y...> 
wrote:

> It just now occurred to me that maybe I should stop dreaming about 
> one day having a daughter whom I name Terra, since I'm unlikely to 
> get my dh's agreement anyway (he likes plain names), and just 
change 
> *my* name to that.  Terra Ziffenplatzen . . . Terra 
> Ziffenplatzen . . . what do y'all think?

I think that you might want to consider getting rid of the boring dh 
and naming your daughter whatever you want to name her.

Just a thought.

--JMC




From princessmelabela at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 31 02:25:15 2003
From: princessmelabela at yahoo.com (Melanie Black)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:25:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Popular and Unpopular Names
In-Reply-To: <bg91pn+ddsn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030731022515.6863.qmail@web20707.mail.yahoo.com>

I always used to hate the name Melanie when I was kid.
 

I mean Melonhead...and stuff..and it was not until
college did I ever have another Melanie in the school
with me.  

When I was really little I accused my mom of
completely making up the name....

What bugs me is when I go to the doctor..and they can
never pronounce my name correctly...

"Me-lane-eee is the most common.  I mean it always
amazed me because I know my name isn't too common..but
there are people with it.  I mean there's melanie
Griffith, Melanie Wilkes...I don't know...

At least it isn't common in the US I have a hunch it
is more common in Britian..why I couldn't tell you.  


I can tell you one thing...I hate the nickname "Mel"
it's ugly...lol..so I go by Mela don't ask me why.

I think the best names are the ones that aren't too
common but not overly common.  Of course names come
and go...I think one of the worst things people do is
they give their kid these very trendy..kind of
names...

~Melanie


=====
We shall never forget Sirius Black....long live his memory!  
Come visit my LJ http://www.livejournal.com/users/princessmela2
 




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From editor at texas.net  Thu Jul 31 02:34:08 2003
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Geist)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:34:08 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Two Cindys? (And Popular Names by Decade)
References: <bg8sb3+ldn4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <008c01c3570c$394d57e0$1b04a6d8@texas.net>

Cindy:

> Anyway, according to my research, "Cynthia" was the tenth most
> popular name for baby girls in the 1960s -- the decade in which I
> was born.
>
> http://www.parentsoup.com/havefun/articles/0,,217650_561640-7,00.html

In the 60s, also my decade, my name wasn't even on the list. I was the only
one for years, it was a family name. Then along comes Barry Manilow and
Dynasty, and here are all these little yuppie Amandas. I'm at least 15 years
older than most of them. Which meant that I had no ingrained ability to
ignore hearing "Mandy!" called, because I was the only one as a child; which
led to my being driven crazy as a high-schooler working at Chuck E.
Cheese's, when all these Amanda-toddlers were being yelled for throughout
the establishment.

~Amanda Lee, devoutly grateful to this day that her mom put her foot down
and would not let her be named Amanda Caledonia (yeah, yeah, Texas family
names. My brother is Rankin Kennedy Peters. He hates it).





From catlady at wicca.net  Thu Jul 31 02:38:00 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:38:00 -0000
Subject: OWLs, California, Birthday, Names, movie casting
Message-ID: <bg9ve8+olqo@eGroups.com>

Anne U wrote:

<< (who assumes Tonks got an "O" in her Transfiguration O.W.L. and 
N.E.W.T. "...and all she had to do was act naturally") >>

I'd expect the Transfiguration OWL and NEWT to include Transfiguring 
other things, not just Transfiguring oneself.

Kaisenji wrote:

<< I met so many awesome people including several of you from 
california! I understand there are some regional groups for HPFGU and 
hopefully I can hook up again with those same people for a 
pre/post-PoA party/viewing. >>

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP4GU-California/messages

Sheryll wrote:

<< Today's birthday honouree is Christian. >>

Hooray, Pengolodh_sc! Huzzah, prince_galrion!

Terry LJ wrote:

<< When my first daughter was born, the name Jordan was popular for 
boys, but not girls. So we named her Jordyn, thinking that it was 
sufficiently unusual. Apparently everybody in the South had the same 
idea, because out of 27 kids in first grade last year, six were named 
some variation of Jordan--one boy, five girls. At least she was the 
only one with a "y". >>

Apparently it often happens that parents choose a name that they 
expect won't be too common, and then it's the most common name in 
their child's first grade. This suggests that the popular names get 
into parents's minds in some unconscious way, not from imitating 
celebrities or popular song lyrics or such.

sjlupin wrote:

<< Same here - I picture him with sandy brown hair, definetly a
little longer. Yup, friendly, sweet face. Oh and Dead Sexy. <grins 
and blushes>  >>

Same here. And what's to blush about for merely stating a true fact?

Barb wrote:

<< (even though in my mind Daniel Day-Lewis is still how I picture 
Sirius Black) >>

Me, too.




From lita at sailordom.com  Thu Jul 31 03:49:50 2003
From: lita at sailordom.com (Lita)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:49:50 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Popular and Unpopular Names
In-Reply-To: <20030731022515.6863.qmail@web20707.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BB4DEDFE.3696%lita@sailordom.com>

On 7/30/03 8:25 PM, "Melanie Black" <princessmelabela at yahoo.com> wrote:

> What bugs me is when I go to the doctor..and they can
> never pronounce my name correctly...
> 
> "Me-lane-eee is the most common.  I mean it always
> amazed me because I know my name isn't too common..but
> there are people with it.  I mean there's melanie
> Griffith, Melanie Wilkes...I don't know...
> 
> At least it isn't common in the US I have a hunch it
> is more common in Britian..why I couldn't tell you.

People mispronounce it? Really? Where are you located, if you don't mind me
asking? I've always thought of "Melanie" as an incredibly common name--we
had at least five or six Melanies at my small (probably ~150 students) high
school in New Mexico. We even had two Melanies with the same last name. :)

Now, if you want to talk about mispronouncing names, I'm your girl--at least
when I'm outside places where Spanish is common. My first name is
"Manuelita" (which I've always thought was dreadful, even though it was
meant to be an honor--I'm named after my great-great-grandfather). Before I
was married, I had a hyphenated last name--and both were of Spanish origin.
When I went to college, no one could say my name. Any part of it. :) I used
to feel kind of sorry for professors during roll when they got to the H's,
as they were so clearly stumped.

But now I find that people know my nickname, "Lita," which I've always
thought of as really uncommon. There's a WWE wrestler who goes by that so I
get asked all the time online whether I'm a fan and if that's why I use it
as a handle. :) (It's really too bad she's not a very good wrestler, IMO.
All image and no skills.) I liked it better when people thought I was just a
rabid Sailor Moon fan. :)

Lita




From princessmelabela at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 31 03:54:43 2003
From: princessmelabela at yahoo.com (Melanie Black)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:54:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Popular and Unpopular Names
In-Reply-To: <BB4DEDFE.3696%lita@sailordom.com>
Message-ID: <20030731035443.80471.qmail@web20712.mail.yahoo.com>

Lisa wrote:

People mispronounce it? Really? Where are you located,
if you don't mind me
asking? I've always thought of "Melanie" as an
incredibly common name--we
had at least five or six Melanies at my small
(probably ~150 students) high
school in New Mexico. We even had two Melanies with
the same last name.

My reply: That is interesting.  I'm in Ohio.  So it
could be a location thing but I know it's not too
common because it's always listed on those Popular
name lists..and it's always like 150 so...I don't
know. LOL

Although, I will say that I like the way Antonio
Bandaras says my name...lol...when he talks about his
wife.  So um maybe that's why it's popular in hispanic
areas it sounds cute.  

~Melanie

=====
We shall never forget Sirius Black....long live his memory!  
Come visit my LJ http://www.livejournal.com/users/princessmela2
 




Click to subscribe to Sirius_Black








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From jillily3g at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 31 04:09:46 2003
From: jillily3g at yahoo.com (Beth)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 04:09:46 -0000
Subject: Popular and Unpopular names
In-Reply-To: <BAY8-F123qgct4oBAaN00019489@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bga4qa+mc0b@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Terry James" 
<terryljames at h...> wrote:
> 
> 
> When my first daughter was born, the name Jordan was popular for 
boys, but 
> not girls.  So we named her Jordyn, thinking that it was 
sufficiently 
> unusual.  Apparently everybody in the South had the same idea, 
because out 
> of 27 kids in first grade last year, six were named some variation 
of 
> Jordan--one boy, five girls.  At least she was the only one with 
a "y".
> 
> Terry LJ

I had to smile because, while I think your daughter has a lovely 
name, I remember that as a Kindergarten aide, some classes would 
come in with several children with the same name, but with different 
spellings (do you know how many ways you can spell Kayla??). It was 
fine for their little name cards on their desks, but made no 
difference for calling on them in class--you always had to 
say "Ashley B" etc. And in preparation for my HP class, I received a 
roster, but have no idea whether "my" Jordan is a boy or a girl...

Beth, who, thanks to Cindy C.'s link, found that Elizabeth is making 
a comeback ;o)




From lita at sailordom.com  Thu Jul 31 04:23:35 2003
From: lita at sailordom.com (Lita)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:23:35 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Popular and Unpopular Names
In-Reply-To: <20030731035443.80471.qmail@web20712.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BB4DF5E7.36AC%lita@sailordom.com>

On 7/30/03 9:54 PM, "Melanie Black" <princessmelabela at yahoo.com> wrote:

> My reply: That is interesting.  I'm in Ohio.  So it
> could be a location thing but I know it's not too
> common because it's always listed on those Popular
> name lists..and it's always like 150 so...I don't
> know. LOL

LOL, and here I always thought it was really common. It *must* be a location
thing. :)

> Although, I will say that I like the way Antonio
> Bandaras says my name...lol...when he talks about his
> wife.  So um maybe that's why it's popular in hispanic
> areas it sounds cute.

That could be true, although I only knew one Hispanic Melanie. :) (My high
school was a boarding school with mostly Native Americans--my name *is*
technically Spanish, but my family isn't. Well, I'm half-Hispanic, from my
father, which is why one half of my maiden last name was Spanish.) But
Melanies (and Shannons and Amys) were *very* popular for people my age. And
somewhat obscure names for boys (things like Harrison, Clinton, and Arlen).

But according to my local paper a couple weeks back, the most common baby
names in my state are from the Bible or from Catholic saints (Joshua, etc.)
Which does make sense, as I know a lot of people now named things like
Joseph, Katherine, and Teresa.

Lita




From dradamsapple at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 31 04:53:50 2003
From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 04:53:50 -0000
Subject: Harry / Hermione Picture and Newsweek
In-Reply-To: <bg9eso+8v5s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bga7cu+4e2l@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "grindieloe" <andie at k...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Melody" <Malady579 at h...> 
> wrote:
> > grindieloe wrote:
> > > How about that Newsweek picture of Harry and Hermione (from PoA 
> > > set)?  They seem very, ah, close... don't you think? *wink, 
wink*
> > 
> > 
> > I adore that picture.  
> > I see it as a brother protecting a sister though.  ;)
> > 
> > 
> > And when is this issue of Newsweek going to hit the newsstands?  I
> > went right to the store when I saw the pictures on Leaky but all 
I 
> saw
> > was the issue about deficits in California.  Did I miss it?  
> > 
> > 
> > Melody
> 
> 
> I don't know... I've been trying to look for it on newsstands also, 
> but no such luck!  Let me know if you find it!
> 
> grindie


I am one of the lucky ones . . .

Found Newsweek at the supermarket; it's the August 4th issue, with a 
little blurb at the top of the front cover about 'the new Harry 
Potter movie'.  It is easy to miss, as none of the HP cast is on the 
front cover.

Personally, I think the picture is great!  It is so like "Harry".  
But I also think that Dan may have enjoyed it as well!  I noticed at 
the DVD release party (er, the pics, that is; I was not there) that 
Dan did have his hand on Emma's shoulder in almost all of the 
pictures, as they were side by side in most shots.  He was smiling 
very brightly, as she looked a little apprehensive.  I don't know, 
maybe it was just my impression.  I will be interesting to watch 
these two as the years go by. 

 And on that note, just having read the prediction that GOF will be 
released in 2007, I will be much closer to the half century mark
by then, and wondering if I will still be as HP obsessed as I am now.

Anna . . .(who is NOT the Anna who drew those wonderful birthday pics 
posted by TLC, but wishes she had 1/10 of her talent!)

HAPPY BIRTHDAY HARRY AND JK!!




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 31 10:05:37 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:05:37 -0000
Subject: Happy Harry's Birthday, everyone!
Message-ID: <bgaplh+lndm@eGroups.com>

And let us all take a moment to bow in reverent thanks to the 
universe (and of course the mum) that brought forth Joanne Rowling on 
this day.  Without them, where would we all be?  

Oh, right, doing something constructive like working, talking to our 
families, or discovering a cure for cancer.  Well.  Ahem.

Amy Z
celebrating by spending the day loading a U-Haul.  California, here I 
come!




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu Jul 31 10:57:43 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:57:43 -0000
Subject: Popular and Unpopular Names
In-Reply-To: <bg9oth+v435@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bgasn7+e09v@eGroups.com>

Amy Z" <lupinesque at y...> 
> wrote:
> 
> > It just now occurred to me that maybe I should stop dreaming 
about 
> > one day having a daughter whom I name Terra, since I'm unlikely 
to 
> > get my dh's agreement anyway (he likes plain names), and just 
> change 
> > *my* name to that.  Terra Ziffenplatzen . . . Terra 
> > Ziffenplatzen . . . what do y'all think?

Joywitch:
> 
> I think that you might want to consider getting rid of the boring 
dh 
> and naming your daughter whatever you want to name her.

Um... I see the value of a partner here: to put a spoke in your plans 
to blight your children's lives with the freight of your personal 
unfulfilled dreams.  You can get your revenge by doing the same to 
your partner, thus giving your offspring a chance to grow up.

David, thinking there might be a *reason* evolution ended up with a 
system where children play their parents off against one another




From kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Jul 31 11:04:20 2003
From: kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk (Kathryn Cawte)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:04:20 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Popular and Unpopular Names
References: <bgasn7+e09v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3F28F7B4.000001.68641@monica>

David said -
 
Um... I see the value of a partner here: to put a spoke in your plans 
to blight your children's lives with the freight of your personal 
unfulfilled dreams. You can get your revenge by doing the same to 
your partner, thus giving your offspring a chance to grow up.
 
David, thinking there might be a *reason* evolution ended up with a 
system where children play their parents off against one another
 

Me -

Oh I agree absolutely - and without such a system of parents frustrating one
another I might have been named Amanda Belinda  - both wonderful names in
their own right I'm sure, but hideous in combination. (my father wanted me
to have the initials abc). Actually my father's story was that it was my
mother's idea and he was stopping her.

Of course for the nine months my mother was carrying me they referred to me
as Manfred so I have to doubt the sanity of both of them.

Kathryn
*thinking at least people can spell Amanda*
 



From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 31 12:05:21 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:05:21 -0000
Subject: Popular and Unpopular Names for Unborn Babies
In-Reply-To: <3F28F7B4.000001.68641@monica>
Message-ID: <bgb0m1+rmpe@eGroups.com>

ABC (AlmostWasn'tKatherine BlessednottobeAmeliaBelinda Cawte) wrote:

> Of course for the nine months my mother was carrying me they 
referred to me
> as Manfred so I have to doubt the sanity of both of them.

LOL!  I knew a couple who frequently referred to their unborn baby as 
Grape Soda.  That's what you get when you include your 3-year-old in 
the game.  Most of the time he was Chicopee, though.  Amazing how 
that stuck.  He's lucky they didn't keep calling him that once he was 
born.

My niece Arianna was "Baby A" throughout her gestation because if she 
was a boy, she was going to be Aidan.

So, let the stories be unleashed.  What did you call your kids while 
they were in utero?  What did your parents call you?  (Makes note to 
ask parents.)

Amy Z







From heidit at netbox.com  Thu Jul 31 12:12:06 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:12:06 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Popular and Unpopular Names for Unborn Babies
In-Reply-To: <bgb0m1+rmpe@eGroups.com>
References: <bgb0m1+rmpe@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1059653531.1DC299CD@w5.dngr.org>


On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 8:05AM -0500, Amy Z wrote:
> Real-To:  "Amy Z" <lupinesque at yahoo.com>
>
> So, let the stories be unleashed.  What did you call your kids while
> they were in utero?  What did your parents call you?  (Makes note to
> ask parents.)

As many in fandom - and pretty much  anyone who reads the leaky cauldron 
- know, I have an 8 week old. Now, his name is jon, but gestationally, 
he was widely known as 'jumper' - so widely known that simon and amy of 
fictionalley.org started a birth pool back at the end of april where the 
winner would be listed as the sponsor of a session at nimbus. I think 
they had over 200 entrants.

And yes, we still call him jumper occasionally. But it's not that bad a 
name for a boy...


Heidi



From s_ings at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 31 12:26:31 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:26:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Happy Birthday x 4!
Message-ID: <20030731122631.44561.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com>

*finishes blowing up balloons and starts suspending
thousands of tiny lights around the room, careful not
to let them get too close to the streamers*

Can I have your attention please? *stares vainly
around the crowded room*

I know everyone in the room is already busy
celebrating birthdays for JKR and Harry. I need you
attention because there are other people who need be
drawn into this celebration. :)

Today's birthday honourees are Marielle (Thunder),
Katherine in MA, Melody, and Ken Kuller. Birthday owls
for all can be sent care of this list. Birthday owls
can also be sent directly to: mu_nu_mu at hotmail.com
(Melody) and ken.kuller at veritas.com (Ken)

May you all have magical days, filled with fun and
friends.

Happy Birthday, Marielle!
Happy Birthday, Katherine!
Happy Birthday, Melody!
Happy Birthday, Ken!

Sheryll the exhausted Birthday Elf ;)

=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Jul 31 12:16:23 2003
From: kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk (Kathryn Cawte)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:16:23 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Popular and Unpopular Names for Unborn Babies
References: <bgb0m1+rmpe@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3F290897.000005.68641@monica>

 
Amy Z referred to me as -
 
ABC (AlmostWasn'tKatherine BlessednottobeAmeliaBelinda Cawte) wrote:
  

 
 
 lol I like that. BTW since I was complaining about no one being able to
spell Kathryn was the misspelling there deliberate?

I swear if I ever have kids I'm going to name them something people can
spell and pronounce. Of course in the past I've said that I want sons i can
call Gabriel, Lucifer and Michael so I guess any kids I have had better hope
they catch me on a good day.

I knew a girl at uni who was called Galadriel and her brother was celeborn -
really you have to wonder if some parents even like their kids :)

K



From wgouine1 at mac.com  Thu Jul 31 12:43:33 2003
From: wgouine1 at mac.com (Peter Paul)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:43:33 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Harry's Birthday, everyone!
In-Reply-To: <bgaplh+lndm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <98DB3094-C354-11D7-A247-0003935103DC@mac.com>

Happy B-day Jo. You rock.  (Ok stop eating cake and go write!)LOL
On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 06:05  AM, Amy Z wrote:

> And let us all take a moment to bow in reverent thanks to the
> universe (and of course the mum) that brought forth Joanne Rowling on
> this day.? Without them, where would we all be??
>
> Oh, right, doing something constructive like working, talking to our
> families, or discovering a cure for cancer.? Well.? Ahem.
>
> Amy Z
> celebrating by spending the day loading a U-Haul.? California, here I
> come!
>
>
<image.tiff>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin 
> Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material 
> from posts to which you're replying!
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Constant Vigilance!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From wgouine1 at mac.com  Thu Jul 31 12:50:12 2003
From: wgouine1 at mac.com (Peter Paul)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:50:12 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Popular and Unpopular Names for Unborn Babies
In-Reply-To: <bgb0m1+rmpe@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <868D576F-C355-11D7-A247-0003935103DC@mac.com>


On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 08:05  AM, Amy Z wrote:

> What did you call your kids while
> they were in utero??

Matthew (the 17 year old ) was referred to as the flu for the first six 
weeks of his existence.
Zoltan (now 8) was called "skillet" by his crazy father.
Isabel (now 5) whilst unborn was dubbed "peanut". Upon her birth We 
tried to affect the British poppet but it just didn't work and when 
comparing the size of her cloth diaper to her noggin "peanut" stuck and 
we still call her that!


A SECOND OT COMMENT:

As the kids last name is Paul...My father suggested his grandson's name 
might be George John Ringo Paul.  Hah Ha Grampie--very funny.
Constant Vigilance!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From leon at adatofamily.com  Thu Jul 31 15:04:54 2003
From: leon at adatofamily.com (Leon Adato)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:04:54 -0000
Subject: Time Magazine article
Message-ID: <bgbb6m+uj3j@eGroups.com>

Just FYI, an article appears in this week's Time Magazine about the
upcoming HP movie, the new director, JKR herself, etc.

It was good for a short fix since I can't reread OOP until my daughter
gives it back!

Leon




From leon at adatofamily.com  Thu Jul 31 15:07:08 2003
From: leon at adatofamily.com (Leon Adato)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:07:08 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter in the Cleveland Jewish News
Message-ID: <bgbbas+4vlh@eGroups.com>

Another news-related FYI. An article ran in last weeks' Cleveland
Jewish News titled "Is Harry Potter Jewish?"

http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/display/inn_features/arts/arts0725.txt

One of the things mentioned was our very own Nimbus 2003 conference!
For those who were there (I wasn't) it's just another acknowledgement
of the effort and fun.

Leon 




From terryljames at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 31 15:10:22 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:10:22 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Popular and Unpopular Names
Message-ID: <BAY8-F122ClltcNdbUu0001c5b1@hotmail.com>




>From: "Kathryn Cawte" <kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk>

>Of course for the nine months my mother was carrying me they referred to me
>as Manfred so I have to doubt the sanity of both of them.
>
>Kathryn

LOL.  Since we knew both babies' gender ahead of time, we wanted to have at 
least one secret, and did not tell anybody the names we had picked.  When 
people wanted to know, we quite seriously told them we were going to name 
the first one "Maybelline" and the second "Clarabelle".  We acted very 
enthusiastic about these names, and it was hilarious to watch people's faces 
as they tried to find something complimentary to say about them.

Terry LJ

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From terryljames at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 31 15:14:47 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:14:47 -0500
Subject: Nicknames for kids
Message-ID: <BAY8-F99VzpJxV0HvBg0001c88a@hotmail.com>




>From: "Amy Z" <lupinesque at yahoo.com>

>So, let the stories be unleashed.  What did you call your kids while
>they were in utero?  What did your parents call you?

>Amy Z
>

Not really in utero, but still...

My mom, a big Elvis fan, called me "Lisa Marie" after I was born.  She still 
does occasionally.

My dad, who claimed I was a cranky baby (no!), called me "Grebble Grinch".  
I have no idea where he picked that up from.

He tried to name my brother "Harley", but my mom wouldn't let him. (Insert 
David's theory here.)

Terry LJ

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From terryljames at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 31 15:18:05 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:18:05 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Popular and Unpopular Names for Unborn Babies
Message-ID: <BAY8-F2293Q67FhCHA800012a3d@hotmail.com>




>From: "Kathryn Cawte" <kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk>
>
>I knew a girl at uni who was called Galadriel and her brother was celeborn 
>-
>really you have to wonder if some parents even like their kids :)
>

I really am going to stop commenting soon....but this discussion is fun.

But as someone who named their child after a major Babylon 5 character 
(middle name, but still), I'm not throwing any stones about this.  :)

Terry LJ

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From kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Jul 31 15:24:34 2003
From: kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk (Kathryn Cawte)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:24:34 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Popular and Unpopular Names for Unborn Babies
References: <BAY8-F2293Q67FhCHA800012a3d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F2934B2.000001.89833@monica>

 
Terry LJ
 
I really am going to stop commenting soon....but this discussion is fun.
 
But as someone who named their child after a major Babylon 5 character 
(middle name, but still), I'm not throwing any stones about this. :)
 

Me -

I have to ask - which one? Because unless you picked Delenn or G'Kar that
doesn't sound too bad (whereas the lotr names I mentioned are just an open
invitation for your child to be beaten up by other kids at every oportunity)

K



From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Thu Jul 31 16:26:44 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:26:44 -0000
Subject: Popular and Unpopular Names & Theme Songs
In-Reply-To: <bg9opk+joim@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bgbg04+7o2i@eGroups.com>

Joywitch wrote:

> Ahem.  Joy here.  Remember me?  The one who christened you Sin 
>D.C. and Amy Ziffenplatzen, respectively?  

Yes.  I'm not sure I ever thanked you properly, so consider this a 
proper "thank you."  In fact, I plan to embrace my new nickname in 
this post, as you'll see below.

Manuelita wrote:

>My first name is "Manuelita" (which I've always thought was 
>dreadful, even though it was meant to be an honor--I'm named after 
>my great-great-grandfather). 

Hey, it could be worse!  My grandfather's name was "Sam," and they 
wanted a son.  So when my mother was born, they named her "Sammie."  
Not Samantha.  "Sammie."  She hates it -- how many times can one 
person be asked "Is that your *real* name?" --  but has never worked 
up the courage to change it.

Melanie wrote:

>Although, I will say that I like the way Antonio
>Bandaras says my name...

I like the way Antonio Bandaras says *everything!*  <Swoon>  Don't 
know why he keeps making those dreadful "Spy Kids" movies, though.

Beth wrote:

>Beth, who, thanks to Cindy C.'s link, found that Elizabeth is 
>making a comeback ;o)

Oh, yeah.  "Elizabeth" is all the rage around here.  I almost went 
with "Elizabeth" 11 years ago, but opted for "Laura" instead.  Man, 
that was a great choice.  At the time, "Lauren" was hot.  Now our 
Laura is always the only one, and she actually likes the name!

Joywitch again:

> I think that you might want to consider getting rid of the boring 
>dh and naming your daughter whatever you want to name her.

I agree!  I think whoever pushes the baby out gets to name it!  ;-)

Philosophical!David mused:

>Um... I see the value of a partner here: to put a spoke in your 
>plans to blight your children's lives with the freight of your 
>personal unfulfilled dreams. You can get your revenge by doing the 
>same to your partner, thus giving your offspring a chance to grow 
>up.

Huh?  We're not supposed to live life through our children?  What 
are they *for,* then?  ;-)

Amy probed:

>What did you call your kids while 
>they were in utero? 

"Gilligan."  I don't think I've ever told anyone that!


Lastly, I think I have a solution to the sudden proliferation 
of "Cindys" and "Wendys."  Oh, sure, we could start using last 
initials and such to differentiate those with the same name, but how 
boring is that?  I think each of us should have a *theme song!*  You 
know, a link to a song that reflects who you are.

OK, here goes.  Henceforth (until I change my mind, anyway), my 
theme song is "Rapper's Delight" by the _Sugar Hill Gang_.  This is 
because it is old school and retro and rather frivolous -- like 
me!  :-)

http://www.bus.miami.edu/~ldouglas/house/shill/rd.html
(click "audio clip")

Sin D.C.










From susannahlm at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 31 16:33:23 2003
From: susannahlm at yahoo.com (derannimer)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:33:23 -0000
Subject: A Major Babylon 5 Character?
Message-ID: <bgbgcj+sg9k@eGroups.com>

Terry wrote:

> But as someone who named their child after a major Babylon 
> 5 character (middle name, but still), I'm not throwing any           
> stones about this.

What! *Please* tell me that the middle name is "Delenn." 
*Please.* I *love* that name.



Derannimer, who almost started posting to this group *as* 
"Delenn"




From princessmelabela at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 31 16:49:56 2003
From: princessmelabela at yahoo.com (Melanie Black)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:49:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Popular and Unpopular Names for Unborn Babies
In-Reply-To: <3F290897.000005.68641@monica>
Message-ID: <20030731164956.70722.qmail@web20701.mail.yahoo.com>

K wrote:
I swear if I ever have kids I'm going to name them something people can
spell and pronounce. Of course in the past I've said that I want sons i can
call Gabriel, Lucifer and Michael so I guess any kids I have had better hope
they catch me on a good day.
 
My reply:  I'm sure Lucifer will love you!  :)
 
Speaking of odd names there are two hermione's in my daycare. I am going to talk to their parents one of these days...I love the name..but I"m sure that it's origin comes from HP.
 
~Melanie


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Come visit my LJ http://www.livejournal.com/users/princessmela2
 




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From przepla at ipartner.com.pl  Thu Jul 31 17:17:23 2003
From: przepla at ipartner.com.pl (Przemyslaw Plaskowicki)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:17:23 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Popular and Unpopular Names
In-Reply-To: <20030731022515.6863.qmail@web20707.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20030731022515.6863.qmail@web20707.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3F294F23.1030009@ipartner.com.pl>

Melanie Black wrote (2003-07-31 04:25):

>When I was really little I accused my mom of
>completely making up the name....
>  
>
You Americans are so lucky if you can completely make children's name. ;-)

In Poland, child's name must not be made up; there is in fact a list of 
permissible names (so no names like: Sunshine or Bill (since William is 
correct) are not permitted.) Also law states: "Child's sex must be 
distingushible from name", so _all_ female names (with one exception: 
Mercedes) are ending with letter 'a' (pronounced as in word 'as').


Regards

-- 
Pshemekan






From neonsister at ameritech.net  Thu Jul 31 17:25:08 2003
From: neonsister at ameritech.net (Tracy)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:25:08 -0000
Subject: Popular and Unpopular Names for Unborn Babies
In-Reply-To: <3F290897.000005.68641@monica>
Message-ID: <bgbjdk+s4fm@eGroups.com>

Kathryn wrote:
"I knew a girl at uni who was called Galadriel and her brother was 
celeborn"

I went to high school with a girl named after another Tolkien elf - 
Arwen.

As to naming unborn babies, a friend of mine called hers "Cletus the 
fetus"!

Tracy  






From terryljames at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 31 17:33:19 2003
From: terryljames at hotmail.com (Terry James)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:33:19 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Popular and Unpopular Names
Message-ID: <BAY8-F761Qd5Zi9LtWn0001d116@hotmail.com>




>From: "Przemyslaw Plaskowicki" <przepla at ipartner.com.pl>
> >
>You Americans are so lucky if you can completely make children's name. ;-)

I never thought of it that way.  There are times when I have thought that 
parents have been too creative with their naming, but I guess I'm grateful 
for the opportunity.

Case in point, I promise this is true:  There's a clerk at a law firm in my 
city who pronounces her name "Sha-theed."  If you look at her nameplate on 
her desk, it is spelled "S-H-*-T-H-E-A-D" and yes, that missing letter is 
what you think it is.  She says her parents named her that and she is 
keeping it.  I don't know if they saw it spraypainted on a wall and thought, 
"Oh, what a lovely name for a girl!" or what.  Sometimes you just have to 
wonder.


Sin D.C. wrote,

>Hey, it could be worse!  My grandfather's name was "Sam," and they wanted a 
>son.  So when my mother was born, they named her "Sammie."  Not Samantha.  
>"Sammie."  She hates it -- how many times can one person be asked "Is that 
>your *real* name?" --  but has never worked up the courage to change it.


Sin D.C.

When I was nine, I read the book "Shepherd of the Hills" twelve times in a 
row.  One of the main characters is Sammie Lane (female).  The play is 
pretty well-known; I guess she could tell people the name comes from the 
book.  The character is pretty admirable too--a liberated woman who was 
still "ladylike" (a compliment, not an insult as that word seems to be now) 
way back before that was popular, a backwoods girl who wanted to make more 
of herself to be "worthy" of the man she was going to marry, and then 
realized that she deserved way better than him.  Go Sammie!


Kathryn wrote:

>I have to ask - which one? Because unless you picked Delenn or G'Kar that
>doesn't sound too bad (whereas the lotr names I mentioned are just an open
>invitation for your child to be beaten up by other kids at every 
>oportunity)

K


Oh, well....I did pick Delenn.  I absolutely love the character--she is what 
I want to be when I grow up!  (Plus she winds up with Sheridan, the sexiest 
man in a white shirt ever :)  )  I liked the name, and figured it was 
"mainstream" enough that nobody would pick on her, even if they found out 
her middle name.

If she was a boy, I was lobbying for "Meriadoc", but my dh for some reason 
didn't like that one.


Derannimer wrote,

>What! *Please* tell me that the middle name is "Delenn." *Please.* I *love* 
>that name.

Derannimer, who almost started posting to this group *as*
"Delenn"


See above!  If my name couldn't be Delenn, I could darn well make sure 
*somebody's* was.  :D

Terry LJ

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From princessmelabela at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 31 17:56:51 2003
From: princessmelabela at yahoo.com (Melanie Black)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:56:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Popular and Unpopular Names for Unborn Babies
In-Reply-To: <3F2934B2.000001.89833@monica>
Message-ID: <20030731175651.52806.qmail@web20712.mail.yahoo.com>

Me -

I have to ask - which one? Because unless you picked Delenn or G'Kar that
doesn't sound too bad (whereas the lotr names I mentioned are just an open
invitation for your child to be beaten up by other kids at every oportunity)

K

 
My reply:  I wonder...are all lotr characters bad names.  I mean obviously sam wouldn't be..and Frodo would be.  The same goes with Legolas *evil name.*  But I actually like Arwen (hate the spelling though) and I love the name Pippin...always have.
 
~Melanie


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From kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Jul 31 18:08:38 2003
From: kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk (Kathryn Cawte)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:08:38 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Popular and Unpopular Names for Unborn Babies
References: <20030731175651.52806.qmail@web20712.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3F295B26.000001.74735@monica>

 

 ~Melanie
 
My reply: I wonder...are all lotr characters bad names. I mean obviously sam
wouldn't be..and Frodo would be. The same goes with Legolas *evil name.* But
I actually like Arwen (hate the spelling though) and I love the name Pippin.
.always have.
 

 Me -

Oh no - I like Arwen too, and galadrial could have been worse (the main
problem was the girl in question didn't suit the name) but Celeborn? I mean
come on - that's an invitation to pick on the poor boy to all his potential
schoolmates :)

And what I said about Delenn earlier - it is quite a pretty name. (although
your taste in men, whoever it was that said that .... Michael Garibaldi was
far sexier than Sheridan <g>)

Really as I said earlier I was considering inflicting Lucifer on a potential
child so I have no room to talk anyway :) Although you could shorten it to
Luc, and it *is* a nice name, just has some unfortunate associations.

There was one couple in the news a few years back who gave their child 26
christian names, one for each letter of the alphabet - poor thing's going to
*love* filling in forms when he/she (I forget which) gets older, not to
mention he's going to be an adult before he can even *remember* all of them
:)

And a couple of people have named their children after entire football teams
(the players' names obviously not the actual team)

K



From princessmelabela at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 31 18:29:17 2003
From: princessmelabela at yahoo.com (Melanie Black)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:29:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Popular and Unpopular Names for Unborn Babies
In-Reply-To: <3F295B26.000001.74735@monica>
Message-ID: <20030731182917.94822.qmail@web20704.mail.yahoo.com>

Snipet:
Oh no - I like Arwen too, and galadrial could have been worse (the main
problem was the girl in question didn't suit the name) but Celeborn? I mean
come on - that's an invitation to pick on the poor boy to all his potential
schoolmates :)

My reply: Celeborn is awful.  As with Galadrial....but I still kind of like the name..lol...maybe for a pet or something..
 
But along the lines of kids not fitting the character they were named after.  I was named after Melanie Wilkes from Gone with the Wind.  You know the sweet, polite, truly perfect person (kind of annoying actually).  Well, I know that everytime I get in fight and show my temper..mom goes..."I knew I should of named you scarlet."  Ironically, I actually like Scarlet O'hera...lol and I definitely like the color red.  
 
~Melanie


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From tomatogrower88 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 31 18:39:39 2003
From: tomatogrower88 at yahoo.com (tomatogrower88)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:39:39 -0000
Subject: Popular and Unpopular Names for Unborn Babies
In-Reply-To: <20030731182917.94822.qmail@web20704.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bgbnpb+5pr5@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Melanie Black 
<princessmelabela at y...> wrote:
> Snipet:
> Oh no - I like Arwen too, and galadrial could have been worse (the 
main
> problem was the girl in question didn't suit the name) but Celeborn? 
I mean
> come on - that's an invitation to pick on the poor boy to all his 
potential
> schoolmates :)
> 
> My reply: Celeborn is awful.  As with Galadrial....but I still kind 
of like the name..lol...maybe for a pet or something..
>  
> But along the lines of kids not fitting the character they were 
named after.  I was named after Melanie Wilkes from Gone with the 
Wind.  You know the sweet, polite, truly perfect person (kind of 
annoying actually).  Well, I know that everytime I get in fight and 
show my temper..mom goes..."I knew I should of named you scarlet."  
Ironically, I actually like Scarlet O'hera...lol and I definitely like 
the color red.  
>  
> ~Melanie
> 
> 

I just thought I would jump in to this name thing. Myrth is a family 
name. My grandmother who had this name was one of the most unhappy 
people I ever knew. 

Myrth




From tahewitt at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 31 19:15:04 2003
From: tahewitt at yahoo.com (Tyler Hewitt)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:15:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Popular and Unpopular Names
In-Reply-To: <1059676795.1893.98988.m4@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030731191504.82671.qmail@web14201.mail.yahoo.com>


Pshemekan wrote:
In Poland, child's name must not be made up; there is
in fact a list of permissible names (so no names like:
Sunshine or Bill (since William is correct) are not
permitted.) Also law states: "Child's sex must be 
distingushible from name", so _all_ female names (with
one exception: Mercedes) are ending with letter 'a'
(pronounced as in word 'as').


ME:
This remends me of an amusing story-about a decade
ago, I was teaching nursery school, and we had a
parent from Poland enroll her daughter Maja at our
school. Later, she had another daughter, and named her
Inka. Both of these were common Polish names, she
explained, but she joked that if she had a third child
it would have to be named Aztec!



When I was born, my mother wanted an uncommon name for
me, and named me Tyler. As a kid, I was the only Tyler
I knew, and it used to annoy me that I could never
find personalized little toys, etc. with my name on
them. Now, Tyler seems quite popular as a boy's name.
After spending most of my life as the only Tyler, I
still am startled when I'm out in public and hear
someone calling their kid by that name.


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From katydid3500 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 31 20:05:17 2003
From: katydid3500 at yahoo.com (Kathryn Wolber)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:05:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Hi and Selling movies
In-Reply-To: <bgbbas+4vlh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030731200517.24291.qmail@web40509.mail.yahoo.com>


Hi, I'm Kathryn from Maryland! I've been lurking for a
few weeks on this list and on the main and movie lists
for months (though I do occassionally chime in on the
main list).  Well, my reason for finally posting is
that I'm trying to switch over from VHS to DVD so I've
been trying to sell my tapes.  I sold about half of
them on Ebay and was planning on listing the rest of
them on Half.com but there I would have to sell them
for about 75 cents a piece, which I just can't do
since I paid atleast $10 for each of them.  
So, I figured I'd just let everyone know I have about
30 movies I'm looking to sell (no Harry Potter though,
they did sell on Ebay). They're all in fabulous
condition and if anyone is interested you can email me
off-list and I'll send you a list of the titles I
have. 
I'm asking between $3-$5 depending on how new they are
and shipping costs about $2. Let me know if you're
interested!

Kathryn, who is breaking her diet and eating some of
her left over b-day cake in celebration of Harry and
JKR's special day:)

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From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 31 21:17:36 2003
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 21:17:36 -0000
Subject: Popular and Unpopular Names
In-Reply-To: <20030731191504.82671.qmail@web14201.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bgc11g+hc51@eGroups.com>

Well... Jennifer was the #1 girls' name in the '70s (thanks, Cindy)...
and boy, don't I know the effects of that.  I lived in a small town of
14,000 (now about 21,000 ten years later) in high school, and once had
an algebra class with 2 other Jennifers.  We ended up being Jen, Jenny
and Jennifer (I was Jennifer).  Not to mention that I dated a guy
whose SISTER was named Jenifer... but then again, his name was the
same as my DAD's name, so I guess I can't throw stones at him for
weirdness.  Anyway, you can imagine that with me growing up with a
name like Jennifer, I wanted my kids to have names they didn't have to
share with everyone.  I got to name the first kid Virginia Dare
(Virginia being my mother's name, Dare being my great-aunt's first
name and my sister's middle name).  While I occasionally see other
people (usually not kids) named Virginia or Ginger on television, I
haven't met one in person yet.  This is a good sign to me.  However...
I'm anxious that HP will spawn an interest in "Ginny", which is a
shortened form of Virginia, so who knows what Ginger's school days
will be like.

Then, the second baby came and Chris got to name her.

Allison.

Poor girl.  I like the name - that part doesn't bother me.  But my
poor little Allie-gator is going to have the same problem that I did
when I was in school.  She's already met 2 other Allies... and she's
only a year old.  We're trying to console ourselves with the idea that
if we can manage it, we'll get everyone to call her Gator, and she'll
stand out a little.

But of course, she'll probably hate that name... oh well.

We called Allie "Allie" in utero, because we'd decided to find out the
sex ahead of time... and we freely published her name among relatives
so as to avoid the situation we encountered before Ginger was born. 
We absolutely refused to find out the sex with her, and we absolutely
refused to tell people what our chosen names were in advance... and we
were richly rewarded by my younger sister deciding to name her new pet
cat Ginger.

So now our first born has the same name as my sister's cat.

But if anyone should be punished for naming their children, it should
be my great-great aunt.  She was infatuated with Commodore Perry, so
she named her son Clarence *Commodore*.

Clarence Commodore Spitznagle.

But we always called him Uncle Bus.

-Jen, who wishes JKR read these boards and would use that name in her
books... ;)




From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 31 21:31:50 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:31:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Popular and Unpopular Names
In-Reply-To: <bgc11g+hc51@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030731213150.80611.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com>

Jen:
> Well... Jennifer was the #1 girls'
> name in the '70s (thanks, Cindy)...
> and boy, don't I know the effects
> of that.  I lived in a small town of
> 14,000 (now about 21,000 ten years
> later) in high school, and once had
> an algebra class with 2 other
> Jennifers.  We ended up being Jen, Jenny
> and Jennifer (I was Jennifer).

<HA!>  Yeah, I was wondering when a 
"Jennifer" is going to weigh in on this.  
I once knew so many Jennifers that the 
next one to transfer into my school was 
going to have to be an "Iffer."
 
> -Jen, who wishes JKR read these boards
> and would use that name in her
> books... ;)

It occurred to me the other day that 
"Ozymandias" is surely a name in search 
of a Slytherin...

Petra
a
n  :)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com



From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu Jul 31 23:11:50 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:11:50 -0000
Subject: Theme Songs
In-Reply-To: <bgbg04+7o2i@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bgc7nm+59o6@eGroups.com>

Sinned Easy wrote:

 This is 
> because it is old school and retro and rather frivolous -- like 
> me!  :-)

*Snort!*  Now there's a coffee-in-the-keyboard comment if ever there 
was one!

David




From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Thu Jul 31 23:52:26 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:52:26 -0000
Subject: Theme Songs
In-Reply-To: <bgc7nm+59o6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bgca3q+nrhi@eGroups.com>

David snorted:

> *Snort!*  Now there's a coffee-in-the-keyboard comment if ever 
>there was one!

You like my theme song, eh?  <beams with pride>  Yeah, I might have 
some talent for picking theme songs, if I do say so myself.  

For instance, I suggest the following for David's Theme Song:

_Rocket Man_, by Elton John

http://www.eltonography.com/songs/rocket_man_i_think_its_going_to_be_
a_long_long_time.html

for the lyrics, and 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00006RAKP/qid=1059695424/sr=2
-1/ref=sr_2_1/104-1398791-2568711

for an audio clip

Like David, an oldie, but a goodie!  ;-)

CinDC -- heading for the hills






From butsiriuslyfolks at charter.net  Thu Jul 31 23:54:20 2003
From: butsiriuslyfolks at charter.net (losangelis)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:54:20 -0000
Subject: Take My Hogwarts Class Quizzes
Message-ID: <bgca7c+d960@eGroups.com>

Hey all..

I just got done teaching seven weeks of summer school.  Course 
Title:  Hogwarts.  It was a heckuva lot of fun, but after tomorrow's 
Tri-Wizard Tournament, I'm going to be glad to take a break.

I just thought I'd offer up eight quizzes I created on the internet 
that my students (4th-7th grade) took for house points, as well as 
OWLs and NEWTs.  Feel free to take them (I think for most on this 
list, they're pretty easy, but it was a good time for the kids).

My website is at 

potterville.net

Click on the "Take a Quiz" link, which will take you to the quiz 
site.  If you do want to do it, you probably should do it soon, as 
the quiz site has said they are revamping the whole site and they may 
go offline soon.

Yours truly,

Wiley o' Ravenclaw