Fwd: Re: JKR, JRRT, & JC

[dfrankiswork at netscape.net]

I sent this offlist to Amy by mistake and didn't keep a copy; I hope it's still legible after bouncing back and forth across the Atlantic!

D

>> Amy wrote:
>> > I'm just surprised that people who don't let 
>> > their children trick-or-treat because Halloween
>> has Pagan roots 
>> don't 
>> > get up in arms about a cosmology that has such
>> pagan overtones. 
>> > Maybe they aren't the same people.
>> 
>> I guess few of them have read the Silmarillion.
>> 
>> Interestingly, Jesus did comment on this sort of
>> trend in the church, 
>> when he advised his disciples to test prophets by
>> their fruits. The 
>> tendency in the church is to examine the *roots* of
>> an ideology or 
>> theology, and then judge it accordingly: 'CS Lewis
>> has Christian 
>> roots'; 'these ideas are based on Bible verses'
>> etc., whereas judging 
>> by fruits means you should look at the results in
>> people's 
>> lives: 'does this make them more loving, generous,
>> patient, etc.?'
>> 
>> So perhaps there's a way ahead here for Christian HP
>> fans who are 
>> troubled by their friends and relatives: what is the
>> impact of 
>> reading the books on their lives? What is the
>> impact of HP on 
>> society in general?
>> 
>> As long as the answer isn't "It means you spend 6
>> hours a day 
>> chatting to your fandom friends on the internet" I'd
>> be surprised if 
>> it's negative. So far, to my knowledge, nobody has
>> come up with 
>> actual examples of children being encouraged to lie,
>> break school 
>> rules, etc. by HP.
>> 
>> I wrote:
>> 
>> It smacks of a secular outlook, IMO, when seen from
>> a 
>> > > theistic POV.
>> 
>> Amy:
>> > 
>> > I agree, except to nitpick the word "secular." As
>> someone who 
>> > believes the secular and sacred are all but
>> impossible to pick 
>> apart, 
>> > or even the same thing (depends what day you catch
>> me on), I would 
>> > say that this belief of Dumbledore's is highly
>> religious.
>> 
>> Sure - I was purposely thinking from inside the
>> ghetto there.
>> 
>> A. Vulgarweed wrote:
>> > 
>> > > For
>> > > all the magic in JKR's world, there's very
>> little that's actually
>> > > *supernatural*: magic is treated as just another
>> force of nature, 
>> > that
>> > > obeys its own laws like gravity. We see ghosts,
>> but no gods or 
>> > angels or
>> > > demons - just a whole other _ecological system_
>> the Muggles don't 
>> > know
>> > > about. Why do those with an eye to avoiding on
>> basis of faith see 
>> > this as
>> > > _more_ threatening, rather than less? Is it
>> creeping secular-
>> > humanism? That
>> > > would seem to directly contradict avoiding them
>> on basis of magic,
>> > > something secular humanists notoriously don't
>> believe in.
>> 
>> Amy added:
>> > 
>> > Interesting point. I think both arguments appear
>> in Christian 
>> > worries about HP: that the books are too
>> supernatural or not 
>> > supernatural enough. The one attacks Pagans, the
>> other humanists. 
>> > You can make either one stick.
>> 
>> I think possibly an issue here is to distinguish
>> between opposition 
>> from those who have read the books and from those
>> who have not. 
>> (This is what was in my mind last night when I
>> referred to 'opinion-
>> formers'.) It's the interaction between the two
>> that's interesting. 
>> If the Christian scholars who read the books are not
>> very impressed, 
>> because of the 'creeping secular humanism', that's
>> one less brake on 
>> the superstitious or plain conservative who assume
>> that anything that 
>> sells by the hundred million must be getting evil
>> supernatural aid.
>> 
>> David


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