From selene at earthlink.net  Thu May  1 02:40:10 2003
From: selene at earthlink.net (Susan Fox-Davis)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1960 19:48:04 -0700
Subject: Smell of Cabbage
Message-ID: <ED5124B8.BE7B8E5D@earthlink.net>

Abigail writes:


<<What synchronicity!  I was just going to post something Terry
Pratchett related!

Synchronicity is my life.  I call it "living in the Twilight Zone."  I
used to get really
amazed and agitated when it happened, now I just relax and enjoy it.

<<I'm sure we all know that, ever since the OotP release date was
announced, almost to the very
hour, it became permanently lodged at the top of Amazon's top 100 list.
Which means that, in
any given hour, more people order OotP then any other book in Amazon's
catalog.  What some
people might not know is that on Amazon's sister site, Amazon.uk, OotP
has been occupying the
top *two* slots - the second one having been claimed by the so-called
'adult version' - the
one with a cover that won't embarass adults reading it on the train.

Well, the adult edition has been dethroned.  As of ten minutes ago,
Terry Pratchett's upcoming
The Wee Free Men was in 2nd place, and the adult OotP in third.  .<snip>

 Now, if only I could see him somewhere in the top ten of
Amazon's American site...>>

Well I've done my part... Amazon.com [USA] sent me e-mail today that
they have just shipped
my copy of WEE FREE MEN.  I have OoP on order of course, plus an extra
copy from
Amazon.co.uk of the Adult cover version.  I love that idea, someone in
their marketing
department had a real brainstorm!

Susan






From rvotaw at i-55.com  Thu May  1 02:43:27 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:43:27 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] The scoop on the hat
References: <b8nbdf+co29@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <005501c30f8b$72568750$3fa3cdd1@RVotaw>

Trina wrote:

> The librarian at school called the book fair people to find out what 
> she had to do with the hats.  Here's the deal:  You pay 29.95 and you 
> get the rockin' cool hat, and a certificate, and a receipt of 
> purchase.  On June 21st you take said receipt to Barnes & Noble or 
> Books-A-Million to pick up your book.  You're also invited to the 
> release party.  Sooo, I'm paying for the book tomorrow and getting my 
> hat!  And no worries about buying two copies of OoP.

I'm so angry.  I called today and apparently they have no clue at this school what on Earth I'm talking about with the hat and all.  

On another note, you're actually worried about buying two copies?  I've already preordered one with Barnes & Noble and preordered another through Amazon UK.  And I'm thinking of preordering the deluxe edition.  Anybody preorder that one yet?

Richelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From alexpie at aol.com  Thu May  1 02:55:38 2003
From: alexpie at aol.com (alexpie at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:55:38 EDT
Subject: Scoop on the hat
Message-ID: <b8.3f2d6fc1.2be1e6aa@aol.com>

In a message dated 4/30/03 8:47:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com writes:

> Here's the deal:  You pay 29.95 and you 
> get the rockin' cool hat, and a certificate, and a receipt of 
> purchase.  On June 21st you take said receipt to Barnes &Noble or 
> Books-A-Million to pick up your book. 

Help!  Order from whom?  I went to the B&N website and there was no mention 
of a hat!  I also checked Scholastic, and no mention there either. Perhaps 
this is not a US offer?  The suspense is killing me...  For those of us in 
the US, on Eastern Daylight Time, we can say, in an hour, that OoP is out 
next month!  I find this madly exciting.
  Great to read the bunny story, although I did once own a killer bunny.  He 
bit me, scared my aunt so much that she would no longer babysit for me, ate 
all my mother's scarves, and half the furniture as well.  Not very 
bun-evolent!
Ba


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From hphgrwlca at yahoo.com  Thu May  1 03:01:45 2003
From: hphgrwlca at yahoo.com (hphgrwlca)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 03:01:45 -0000
Subject: Any other fanfics?
Message-ID: <b8q2mp+amgd@eGroups.com>

Hey all.  Christine here.

I know I asked this before, but I only got one response, so here goes 
again:

What are some good fanfics?

I've read Draco Dormiens series, Paradigm of Uncertainty, Fall of 
Childhood, Psychic Serpent, We'll Always Have Paris.

I'd really appreciate any feedback on this!

Thanks, 


Christine




From rvotaw at i-55.com  Thu May  1 03:22:38 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:22:38 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Scoop on the hat
References: <b8.3f2d6fc1.2be1e6aa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001101c30f90$eb3210e0$4e9dcdd1@RVotaw>

Ba wrote:

> Help!  Order from whom?  I went to the B&N website and there was no mention 
> of a hat!  I also checked Scholastic, and no mention there either. Perhaps 
> this is not a US offer?  The suspense is killing me...  For those of us in 
> the US, on Eastern Daylight Time, we can say, in an hour, that OoP is out 
> next month!  I find this madly exciting.

It's US only, but it's only at school book fairs.  The offer is not available online or through the book clubs (like kids have at school with book order forms).  And apparently some book fairs aren't offering it either (at least the one nearest me has no clue what I'm talking about).  So start calling your local schools to see if any of them have a Scholastic book fair going on.

Richelle 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com  Thu May  1 03:15:18 2003
From: jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com (Haggridd)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 03:15:18 -0000
Subject: Terry Pratchett (was: Smell of Cabbage)
In-Reply-To: <b8p65i+f7o9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b8q3g6+shvp@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "abigailnus" 
<abigailnus at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "shanna" <slstich at h...> 
wrote:
> > Hi Abagail.
> > Do you recommend a particular Pratchett book to start with?  I've 
been wanting to read his work for a while now, but honestly forgot 
about it till you brought it up in this post!  
> > Shanna
> 
 
> The Witches Series - starring Esmerelda 'Granny' Weatherwax, who 
beats Snape hands down as the nastiest good guy ever.  These books 
are often parodies of literary works.
> Equal Rites
> Wyrd Sisters 
> Witches Abroad
> Lords and Ladies 
> Maskerade
> Carpe Jugulum 
> 
> The Watch Series - these books tell of the city watch in the 
metropolis of Ankh-Morpork.  They are mostly mysteries, with a 
decidedly Pratchett flavor.  
> Guards! Guards!
> Men at Arms
> Feet of Clay
> Jingo
> The Fifth Elephant
> Night Watch
> 
> The Death Series - on the Discworld, Death is a person, with all 
the problems that come with that.  These books deal with Death and 
his extended family.
> Mort
> Reaper Man
> Soul Music
> Hogfather
> Thief of Time
> 
> The Rincewind Series - Rincewind is probably the most beloved of 
Discworld characters (after Death) which is strange because the books 
he stars in are almost unanimously agreed to be the worst in the 
series.  The inept wizard wants nothing more then to live a boring 
life.  You can imagine how often that happens.
> The Light Fantastic
> The Color of Magic
> Sourcery
> Eric
> Interesting Times - the only really great Rincewind book, in my 
opinion
> The Last Continent
> The Last Hero - a graphic novel
> 
> The standalones - these are settings and characters Pratchett never 
came back to, although he might some day.
> Pyramids 
> Moving Pictures 
> Small Gods
> The Truth
> The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents - a book for children
> The Wee Free Men - also apparently for children
> 
> If I had to pick favorites, they would be Wyrd Sisters, which is a 
wonderful parody of Macbeth, Mort, in which Death decides to hire an 
apprentice, Small Gods, a wondeful look at religion, or just about 
any one of the Watch series.
> 

Beautiful job of delineating the threads, Abigail, but I would 
put "The Truth" in the City Watch thread, even though the Watch is 
peripheral to the main story, because it concerns that same plot-line 
that moves the othes in the thread:  another plot to remove or 
neutralize the Patrician.  The Truth is my favorite of the Discworld 
novels-- albeit by a Dwarf's hair-- not least because it introduces 
my favorite minor character, Otto Chriek.

One other point.  Even though "Equal Rites" is the earliest written 
of the witches' thread, I too, would recommend starting with "Wyrd 
Sisters".. pTerry had changed enough of the underpinings of the 
thread that it is effectively the beginning of a new thread.

In conclusion, let me just echho Abigail's sentiment.

Enjoy!  -Haggridd
> Enjoy!
> Abigail





From tammy at mauswerks.net  Thu May  1 03:44:05 2003
From: tammy at mauswerks.net (Tammy Rizzo)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:44:05 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Any other fanfics?
In-Reply-To: <b8q2mp+amgd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3EB05FC5.14868.CACC1BC@localhost>

On 1 May 2003 at 3:01, hphgrwlca wrote:

> Hey all.  Christine here.
> 
> I know I asked this before, but I only got one response, so here goes
> again:
> 
> What are some good fanfics?

Hey, Christine.  I'd have to recommend the Darkness and Light Trilogy, available at 
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/R_J_Anderson/ -- they are very well-written 
and have a wonderful feel for the Potterverse.  They're also Snapefic, so if you're 
not into Sexy!Severus, you might not really care for them.
***
Tammy
tammy at mauswerks.net






From kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu May  1 04:09:38 2003
From: kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk (Kathryn Cawte)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 05:09:38 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Terry Pratchett (was: Smell of Cabbage)
References: <b8q3g6+shvp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3EB09E02.000001.98289@monica>

Haggridd said -
Beautiful job of delineating the threads, Abigail, but I would 
put "The Truth" in the City Watch thread, even though the Watch is 
peripheral to the main story, because it concerns that same plot-line 
that moves the othes in the thread:  another plot to remove or 
neutralize the Patrician.  The Truth is my favorite of the Discworld 
novels-- albeit by a Dwarf's hair-- not least because it introduces 
my favorite minor character, Otto Chriek.

Me-

My current favourite is Night Watch - but you really need to read the other
Watch books first. It's the Discworld does Les Mis, although more subtley
than he did Macbeth.

Personally I started with Mort (the blurb got me hooked when I came across
it "Death comes to everyone. When he came to Mort he offered him a job"
Still makes me laugh)and the Death books are very good but personally I
prefer the Watch.

If you want to start with a standalone that doesn't come up again (much)
Small Gods is a classic.

I think I want to be Nanny Ogg though :) Oh and own the Luggage.

Living where I do though my favourite line is "Tourist, Rincewind decided,
meant idiot." *nods vigourously*

K
(why is it Japanese tourists travel in packs?)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From mdemeran at hotmail.com  Thu May  1 06:23:45 2003
From: mdemeran at hotmail.com (Meg Demeranville)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 06:23:45 -0000
Subject: Smell of Cabbage
In-Reply-To: <3EAFF743.2EC1DBB4@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <b8qehh+hjlt@eGroups.com>

Susan Fox-Davis wrote:
> This well-known aroma is connected with magic outside of the Harry 
Potter corpus:
> 
> "At some time in the recent past someone had decided to brighten 
the ancient corridors of the University by painting them, having 
some vague notion that Learning Should Be Fun. It hadn't worked. It's
a fact known throughout the universes that no matter how carefully 
the colours are chosen, institutional d?cor ends up as either vomit 
green, unmentionable brown, nicotine yellow, or surgical appliance 
pink. By some little-understood process of sympathetic resonance, 
corridors painted in those colours always smell slightly of boiled 
cabbage-even if no cabbage is ever cooked in the vicinity."
~Terry Pratchett, Equal Rites


Susan, I read this and just had to laugh. You just described my 
summer house perfectly. Back when it was built, the priest who 
furnished it used only what he could get donated from the local 
Catholic hospital. Consequently, the house was for many years, 
nicotine yellow downstairs, vomit green upstairs, with surgical 
appliance pink trim and unmentionable brown painted wood floors. And 
those are quite hard colors to cover up. I think it took three coats 
of paint on the walls and four coats of battleship grey on the 
floor. The ceilings still have spots of paint in those lovely 
colors. And all the hospital salvage beds are either brown, green or 
pink, complete with cranks and chart holders. And we don't seem to 
be in a hurry to change that. 

But the house doesn't smell of boiled cabbage, only spoilt seafood 
and rancid hotdogs. Maybe I just don't remember the odors other than 
that. Or the seafood and bait combination was too powerful.

Is it really 1:30 in the morning? Eek!

-Meg

Read the untold story of life as a first year medical student at:
As The Scalpel Turns - http://www.livejournal.com/users/megd/




From abigailnus at yahoo.com  Thu May  1 07:47:10 2003
From: abigailnus at yahoo.com (abigailnus)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 07:47:10 -0000
Subject: Terry Pratchett (was: Smell of Cabbage)
In-Reply-To: <b8q3g6+shvp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b8qjdu+pkbf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Haggridd" <jkusalavagemd at y...> wrote:
> Beautiful job of delineating the threads, Abigail, but I would 
> put "The Truth" in the City Watch thread, even though the Watch is 
> peripheral to the main story, because it concerns that same plot-line 
> that moves the othes in the thread:  another plot to remove or 
> neutralize the Patrician.  

Yes, I think you're right.  The Truth does have a different protagonist then the rest of the Watch books, but that's not uncommon.  In the Death series, Mort is the protagonist of Mort, Death is the protagonist of Reaper Man, and in Soul Music, Hogfather and Thief of Time, the protagonist is Death's granddaughter, Susan.

So, the Watch series should be:
Guards! Guards!
Men at Arms
Feet of Clay
Jingo
The Fifth Elephant
The Truth
Night Watch

The Truth is my favorite of the Discworld 
> novels-- albeit by a Dwarf's hair-- not least because it introduces 
> my favorite minor character, Otto Chriek.

The Truth is defnitely my favorite of the newer Discworld novels, although it can't quite displace my love for Wyrd Sisters.

Kathryn said:
>>My current favourite is Night Watch - but you really need to read the other
 Watch books first. It's the Discworld does Les Mis, although more subtley
 than he did Macbeth.>>

OK, I'll bite.  I've never seen Les Mis, how does Night Watch parallel it?

Abigail





From jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com  Thu May  1 09:22:42 2003
From: jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com (Haggridd)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 09:22:42 -0000
Subject: Terry Pratchett (was: Smell of Cabbage)
In-Reply-To: <b8qjdu+pkbf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b8qp12+cefa@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "abigailnus" 
<abigailnus at y...> wrote:

> OK, I'll bite.  I've never seen Les Mis, how does Night Watch 
parallel it?
> 
> Abigail

I haven't read any authoritative analysis, but for me the 
insurrection in "Nightwatch" evoked the Paris commune of 1825, which 
is the historical context for Les Miserables.  Sam, Reg Shoe, Nobby 
and even vetenaria are the communards.  It is a loose association.  
Jean Valjean, Javert, Fantine, Cosette, etc. have no analogues in 
"Nightwatch", IMO.

Allow me to make a plug for another Yahoo! Group:  "Discworld 
Monthly", or DWM.  It isn't a message board, but a monthly 
neewsletter for fans of pTerry (Terry Pratchett, fyi). I highly 
recommend it.

-Haggridd

  





From abigailnus at yahoo.com  Thu May  1 10:12:11 2003
From: abigailnus at yahoo.com (abigailnus)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 10:12:11 -0000
Subject: Terry Pratchett (was: Smell of Cabbage)
In-Reply-To: <b8qp12+cefa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b8qrtr+35j4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Haggridd" <jkusalavagemd at y...> wrote: 
> Allow me to make a plug for another Yahoo! Group:  "Discworld 
> Monthly", or DWM.  It isn't a message board, but a monthly 
> neewsletter for fans of pTerry (Terry Pratchett, fyi). I highly 
> recommend it.

And I second that recommendation.  I went backpacking in the States a few years ago, and decided before I left to redirect DWM to my new Yahoo! account.  I never made a better decision - if it hadn't been for DWM, I wouldn't have known that Terry would be signing books in Chicago the day after I arrived there.  Living in Israel, I never see interesting authors, so this was an extra-special treat, all thanks to DWM (and later in that trip I attended a reading by Nick Hornby in New York).

If anyone's interested, Discworld Monthly can be found at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/discworldmonthly/

Abigail




From prongs at marauders-map.net  Thu May  1 14:32:58 2003
From: prongs at marauders-map.net (Silver Stag)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 10:32:58 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Any other fanfics?
References: <3EB05FC5.14868.CACC1BC@localhost>
Message-ID: <01bb01c30fee$90394010$0201a8c0@bettysue>

> snip
Tammy:
Hey, Christine.  I'd have to recommend the Darkness and Light Trilogy,
available at
> http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/R_J_Anderson/ -- they are very
well-written
> and have a wonderful feel for the Potterverse.  They're also Snapefic, so
if you're
> not into Sexy!Severus, you might not really care for them.

Silver Stag:
I'm not a snape fan and I loved the darkness and light trilogy.  It's just
good.
SS





From rainbow at rainbowbrite.net  Thu May  1 16:27:09 2003
From: rainbow at rainbowbrite.net (Katy Cartee)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 12:27:09 -0400
Subject: 'Harey' Potter - the bunny who lived
References: <1051749957.799.29343.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <029601c30ffe$83e18290$2302a8c0@sysonline.com>

Nicole wrote:

> A real heart warming story...even more so for me because I own 2 
> miniature bunnies who are the most wonderful, intelligent little 
> pets you can imagine!

I'm glad you enjoyed it Nicole! And i've never heard of miniature bunnies before!! Where can you find them? That sounds like a wonderful pet! I'm looking to get another one (something small and furry) so i'm looking into all of my possibilities :) I'd love to learn more about these!

Jennifer wrote: 

> What an adorable story!
> I really hope the bunnies make it okay.  For rabbits, the mother 
> doesn't stay with them 24/7 but visits them throughout the day 
> and feeds them usually twice daily.  How sad that she died.  

Yes, it's very sad. And i found yet another poor little baby yesterday out in the backyard, but this one was already dead. I'm guessing it was hiding from us because we checked out there SEVERAL times to make sure we didn't miss any. And i guess he just crawled up under this weed that i found him under and died...poor little thing :(

> Glad to hear that your dog didn't kill the rabbits.  I had to 
> laugh at this story because we have a litter of domestic Holland 
> Lop bunnies that I'm keeping one as a pet, and one of my possible 
> names is Harry :)

Oh what are Holland Lop Bunnies?? They sound adorable! :) 

> Or Draco...or Hermione...  any suggestions guys? Or am I 
> completely stupid for naming a pet off of a HP character? 

Oh HECK NO that's not stupid! Both of my pets are named after Rainbow Brite characters (On-X and Orin)...although i've since wanted to rename Orin to Hedwig because i SWEAR he looks just like a snowy owl sometimes (he's a white Himilayan cat). 

So i guess it could depend on what the bunny looks like...Hedwig if it's white, Niffler if it's black ;) But there are a million HP names you could choose from :) Who's your favorite character? 

~Katy~
..who loves animals even more than she loves HP (if that's possible)..

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu May  1 16:51:09 2003
From: kcawte at blueyonder.co.uk (Kathryn Cawte)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 17:51:09 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Terry Pratchett (was: Smell of Cabbage)
References: <b8qjdu+pkbf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3EB1507D.000003.99495@monica>

 
 
 
Kathryn said:
>>My current favourite is Night Watch - but you really need to read the
other
Watch books first. It's the Discworld does Les Mis, although more subtley
than he did Macbeth.>>
 
OK, I'll bite.  I've never seen Les Mis, how does Night Watch parallel it?
 
Abigail
 
Now firstly let me say it doesn't have the same plot, but it has several
recognizeable elements from it. Secondly I read the book at Christmas and am
now hazy on the setails, have to read it again.  The major action in the
musical (since the book is big enough to use as a table at a dinner for 6
and as such covers much more) is set in an uprising in Paris between the
students and the authorities which is crushed. The barricades are where a
lot of it happens. Simultaneously we have a policeman hunting down a
murderer (although admittedly the murderer is our hero, who is assuming the
identity of someone else).Several of the scenes during the rebellion
parallel scenes from the musical, especially the army charging the barricade
and the resistors raising a flag. The most obvious bit (I thought) was that
in the musical there is a street kid called Gavroche (who eventually dies
risking his life for the rebellion). He's a thief and a ragged little urchin
- he's also Nobby to a T.

Oh and the memorial Vetinari suggests at the end, seven men raising a flag .
.. go and look at the Les Mis logo sometime.

Really like I said it's subtle but as someone who has seen the musical and
listens to the soundtrack regularly there are just enough lifted scenes and
parallels to make it obvious that it's deliberate, without turning the book
into Les Mis itself.

K



From jenw118 at yahoo.com  Thu May  1 17:58:52 2003
From: jenw118 at yahoo.com (Jennifer R. Wilson)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 10:58:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: 'Harey' Potter - the bunny who lived
In-Reply-To: <029601c30ffe$83e18290$2302a8c0@sysonline.com>
Message-ID: <20030501175852.35275.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com>



Katy Cartee <rainbow at rainbowbrite.net> wrote:

Oh what are Holland Lop Bunnies?? They sound adorable! :) 
Holland Lop bunnies are a domestic breed of lop eared rabbits.  Their ears are long, and instead of being straight up, they hang like a dog's might.

Go to this website and then to Photo Gallery for pics: 

http://www.hlrsc.com/

 
I wrote...
> Or Draco...or Hermione...  any suggestions guys? Or am I 
> completely stupid for naming a pet off of a HP character? 
Katy replied:
Oh HECK NO that's not stupid! Both of my pets are named after Rainbow Brite characters (On-X and Orin)...although i've since wanted to rename Orin to Hedwig because i SWEAR he looks just like a snowy owl sometimes (he's a white Himilayan cat).  Oh how cute!  I've always thought that if I got a pet of my very own, it would be named from the HP universe.  
Katy said: 
So i guess it could depend on what the bunny looks like...Hedwig if it's white, Niffler if it's black ;) But there are a million HP names you could choose from :) Who's your favorite character?  My response: Well, I'm thinking of names like that too.  I've not been able to be around them much, as they're only 6 days old. My glimpses of them at this point have been brief.  My first pick will be on personality.  I'd rather have a not so pretty bunny that's got a sweet personality than a finicky, shaky beautiful bunny.   As for my favorite characters, my first favorite would be Harry.  Second, would be Hermione.  And thirdly, Draco... yes, I'm a Draco fan.  In that respect, I think fanfiction has corrupted me :)I also find the character of Severus Snape fascinating, but for the life of me I can't even begin to imagine a rabbit named Severus or Sevvie... no not using that name :) Sorry for my long ramble.  I hope it's not too weirded out for the list. Jennifer

 

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From kristen_tort at hotmail.com  Thu May  1 23:10:36 2003
From: kristen_tort at hotmail.com (Kristen)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 23:10:36 -0000
Subject: N00b here
Message-ID: <b8s9hc+2ed4@eGroups.com>

I just wanted to post and tell you all that I have decided to go to 
Nimbus. I originally told Heidi and several others that I wouldn't be 
attending because of $$$ reasons. Well everything fell into place! I 
also got an excellent deal on plane tickets through www.delta.com.

I can't wait to meet all of you. Everyone has been so wonderful and 
welcoming in this fandom. After 3 months of hanging around, I feel 
right at home.

Sorry to disrupt but I had to share.

Kristen




From heidit at netbox.com  Thu May  1 23:58:30 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 19:58:30 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] N00b here
Message-ID: <mailman.42.1576049046.5361.hpfgu-otchatter@archive.hpfgu.org>

Oh, excellent! We've had a wonderful influx of new registrants in the past two days - probably at least somewhat related to the announcements of Ari Rapkin and some of the exhibitors.

The luncheons are starting to sell out, and so are the booths in the exhibition room - but I know we have more exciting announcements on slate for next week. 


Heidi Tandy
*Ask me about Nimbus - 2003*
Http://www.hp2003.org  
-----Original Message-----
From: "Kristen" <kristen_tort at hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 23:10:36 
To:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] N00b here

Real-To:  "Kristen" <kristen_tort at hotmail.com>

I just wanted to post and tell you all that I have decided to go to 
Nimbus. I originally told Heidi and several others that I wouldn't be 
attending because of $$$ reasons. Well everything fell into place! I 
also got an excellent deal on plane tickets through www.delta.com.

I can't wait to meet all of you. Everyone has been so wonderful and 
welcoming in this fandom. After 3 months of hanging around, I feel 
right at home.

Sorry to disrupt but I had to share.

Kristen



________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

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Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying!

Is your message...
An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
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From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Fri May  2 01:07:10 2003
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 01:07:10 -0000
Subject: Any other fanfics?
In-Reply-To: <b8q2mp+amgd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b8sgbu+cdsl@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter, "hphgrwlca" wrote:
> Hey all.  Christine here.
> 
> I know I asked this before, but I only got one response, so here
> goes again:
> 
> What are some good fanfics?
> 
> I've read Draco Dormiens series, Paradigm of Uncertainty, Fall of 
> Childhood, Psychic Serpent, We'll Always Have Paris.
> 
> I'd really appreciate any feedback on this!
> 
> Thanks, 
> 
> 
> Christine

I'll start by echoing Tammy's recommendation of the Darkness and 
Light trilogy by R.J. Anderson - I am not much of a Snape-fan myself, 
but that story is simply so well-written that it doesn't matter 
whether or not I like Snape much in general.  

These are some other stories you might like:

After the End, by Arabella and Zsenya is probably the flagship R/Hr - 
Ha/G fanfic out there; it can be found at 
http://www.sugarquill.net/read.php?storyid=619&chapno=1  The story is 
not yet completed.

Irina's  M?rr?gna-trilogy, which is a Ginny-centric fanfic, with also 
significant screentime to Harry and Draco, with lots of tie-ins to 
Celtic tradition.  Can be found at 
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Irina/ - the trilogy is not yet 
complete.

Thing1's stories are primarily centred on Remus and Sirius (but 
featuring Harry's generation as well, in some stories), and should be 
read in this order, as far as I know:
This Was Falling
On Flying
Veritas
The Casting Stone
Of Secret Passages and Pixies (*)
Letters (*)
Waterloo (*)
Let's Just Keep Our Fingers Crossed (**)
The Goblin Market
(*):  Trilogy about the children of Remus' and Sirius' respective 
marriages - are really a sort of intermission in the main timeline.

Snips and Snails and Puppy Dog Tails
Starlight
The Soupmaker's Apprentice
Danse Macabre
The above four are all stand-alone stories, but set in the same 
version of Potter-verse as the above continuity - you're probably 
best off reading them only after having read The Casting Stone

Thing1's stories can be found at http://www.sugarquill.net/index.php?
action=profile&id=25  The Goblin Market is still unfinished; it has a 
great development of the goblin-side of magical society.

Best regards
Christian Stub?




From trisha.masen at verizon.net  Fri May  2 01:23:43 2003
From: trisha.masen at verizon.net (Trisha Masen)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 21:23:43 -0400
Subject: Any other fanfics?
References: <1051837048.552.71579.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <000901c31049$788f9a80$0100a8c0@s0023453270>

>From: "hphgrwlca" <hphgrwlca at yahoo.com>
>
>Hey all.  Christine here.
>
>I know I asked this before, but I only got one response, so here goes
>again:
>
>What are some good fanfics?
>
>I've read Draco Dormiens series, Paradigm of Uncertainty, Fall of
>Childhood, Psychic Serpent, We'll Always Have Paris.
>
>I'd really appreciate any feedback on this!

In any reply to this, I always plug my recommendations page (can you
tell I sleep too little when I create a whole page?):
http://www.trishamasen.net/writing/Harry_Potter/recommendations.htm

I got tired of trying to keep track of the fics I enjoyed, so put them
up on one page.  I also try to keep it updated.  For Harry/Snape, I
push "The Mirror of Maybe" by Midnight Blue - it's awesome and I don't
go for slash.  For Harry/Ginny, there's "After the End" by Arabella
and Zsenya.

~Trisha Masen~






From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Fri May  2 01:24:10 2003
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 01:24:10 -0000
Subject: Any other fanfics? Addendum to previous
In-Reply-To: <b8q2mp+amgd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b8shbq+sec1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter, "hphgrwlca" wrote:
> Hey all.  Christine here.
> 
> I know I asked this before, but I only got one response, so here
> goes again:
> 
> What are some good fanfics?
> 
> I've read Draco Dormiens series, Paradigm of Uncertainty, Fall of 
> Childhood, Psychic Serpent, We'll Always Have Paris.
> 
> I'd really appreciate any feedback on this!
> 
> Thanks, 
> 
> 
> Christine

And a follow-up, because I forgot some things.  You say you have read 
Paradigm of Uncertainty - have you also read her two sequels The Show 
that Never Ends, and The Hero with a Thousand Faces (still in 
progress)?  Both can be found at 
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Lori/

I assume you have read Draco Sinister and Draco Veritas, which follow 
on to Draco Dormiens (your wording was a bit unclear)?  Both findable 
at 
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Cassandra_Claire/

Penny (founder of this list) and Carole co-authored a prequel to 
Paradigm of Uncertainty:  A Sirius Affair, which can be found at:
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Penny_and_Carole/

Carole continued with the sequel to the prequel:  A Sirius Change 
(still a work in progress), which can be found at:
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Carole/

Also, I managed to break the link to Thing1, which should properly be
http://www.sugarquill.net/index.php?action=profile&id=25

Best regards
Christian Stub?




From trisha.masen at verizon.net  Fri May  2 01:30:37 2003
From: trisha.masen at verizon.net (Trisha Masen)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 21:30:37 -0400
Subject: Deluxe Edition (was Scoop on the hat)
References: <1051837048.552.71579.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c3104a$6fc658c0$0100a8c0@s0023453270>

Trina wrote:
> And no worries about buying two copies of OoP.

And Richelle replied:

> On another note, you're actually worried about buying two copies?
> I've already preordered one with Barnes & Noble and preordered
> another through Amazon UK.  And I'm thinking of preordering the
> deluxe edition.  Anybody preorder that one yet?

Me:
I did have the deluxe edition on order from Amazon (since they
guarantee delivery on June 21), but cancelled it after buying a
laptop.  Is the deluxe edition a limited one?  If so, I may change my
mind.

I also have a copy preordered through B&N (a brick & mortar store)
where I can go at midnight June 20 and a copy of the adult-cover UK
version (I love that cover).  My husband thinks I'm nuts.  Maybe I am.

~Trisha Masen~
http://www.trishamasen.net/trisha.htm






From alexpie at aol.com  Fri May  2 04:55:30 2003
From: alexpie at aol.com (alexpie at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 00:55:30 EDT
Subject: Hats for small heads
Message-ID: <77.fe7d820.2be35442@aol.com>

In a message dated 5/1/03 8:58:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com writes:

> It's US only, but it's only at school book fairs.  The offer is not 
> available online or through the book clubs (like kids have at school with 
> book order forms).  And apparently some book fairs aren't offering it 
> either (at least the one nearest me has no clue what I'm talking about).  
> So start calling your local schools to see if any of them have a Scholastic 
> book fair going on.
> 

I did check it out, and the hats are in children's sizes!  Since my head is a 
rather large adult one, it does me no good, unless I pin it to my shirt!
  Thanks, though--
Ba


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From alexpie at aol.com  Fri May  2 04:59:25 2003
From: alexpie at aol.com (alexpie at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 00:59:25 EDT
Subject: Nimbus
Message-ID: <60.305f011c.2be3552d@aol.com>

I know that this is a totally lame post, as the dates have been announced, 
but I just got an unexpected chance to go to Florida, so would like details. 
If someone could post me offlist, so as not to bore everyone else to death, I 
would really appreciate it!
Thanks--
Ba, sometimes Ravenclaw, sometimes Slytherin, but no Griffindor


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From selene at earthlink.net  Fri May  2 15:37:38 2003
From: selene at earthlink.net (Susan Fox-Davis)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 08:37:38 -0700
Subject: Smell of Cabbage
Message-ID: <3EB290C2.9F8E83C7@earthlink.net>

Meg writes after my Pratchett quote:

<<Susan, I read this and just had to laugh. You just described my
summer house perfectly. ... <snip> But the house doesn't smell of
boiled cabbage, only spoilt seafood and rancid hotdogs.
Maybe I just don't remember the odors other than
that. Or the seafood and bait combination was too powerful.>>

May I say... yuck!  My best wishes in your ongoing quest
to create the perfect summer home, despite the odds.

So I've signed up for "Discworld Monthly," there is another
one on yahoogroups called "Wossname," a fun Discworld newsletter,
also monthly, with a really good Discworld horoscope column
and word trivia games.

Susan Fox-Davis
selene at earthlink.net






From foxmoth at qnet.com  Fri May  2 22:31:14 2003
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 22:31:14 -0000
Subject: Any other fanfics?
In-Reply-To: <b8q2mp+amgd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b8urji+bmni@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "hphgrwlca" 
<hphgrwlca at y...> wrote:
> Hey all.  Christine here.
> 
> I know I asked this before, but I only got one response, so here 
goes 
> again:
> 
> What are some good fanfics?
> 

The Paradise Series by Ebony/AngieJ includes:

Trouble in Paradise, which  charts the course of a troubled R/H 
marriage, and Paradise Lost (currently in progress), which 
concerns, er, subsequent events. 

These and  other terrific fics can be found at

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HP_Paradise

Pippin







From Zugzwang_0 at hotmail.com  Fri May  2 22:47:14 2003
From: Zugzwang_0 at hotmail.com (ecceq)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 22:47:14 -0000
Subject: Terry Pratchett (was: Smell of Cabbage)
In-Reply-To: <b8qp12+cefa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b8ushi+vqld@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Haggridd" 
<jkusalavagemd at y...> wrote:
> 
> I haven't read any authoritative analysis, but for me the 
> insurrection in "Nightwatch" evoked the Paris commune of 1825, 
which 
> is the historical context for Les Miserables.  Sam, Reg Shoe, Nobby 
> and even vetenaria are the communards.  It is a loose association.  
> Jean Valjean, Javert, Fantine, Cosette, etc. have no analogues in 
> "Nightwatch", IMO.

The first Discworld novel I read was Mort 10-years-ago and it remains 
my favourite simply because I'd never read anything remotely like it 
before and it was a really exciting discovery ... however good the 
other books in the series are, I'll obviously never be able 
experience that 'discovery' again.  

The thing I enjoy doing now is 'discovering' Pratchett's many many 
literary, historical and cultural referencies, from the heavy parody 
of Leiber and Lovecraft in the 'Colour of Magic,' to the Operatic 
titles word search of Maserade to my favourite Mort quote and 
parodying of quautum physics with "The only thing known to go faster 
than light is monarchy..." 

Discworld will, itellectually speaking, never be much more than a 
light to middle-brow read, but what jolly good satisfying fun they 
are!

Ecce-Q: looking for a love of Shakespeare and rock-opera in 
Pratchett's works.






From jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com  Sat May  3 02:01:14 2003
From: jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com (Haggridd)
Date: Sat, 03 May 2003 02:01:14 -0000
Subject: Physician, Heal Thyself !  WAS:Smell of Cabbage
In-Reply-To: <b8qehh+hjlt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b8v7ta+89fa@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Meg Demeranville" 
<mdemeran at h...> wrote:
 
> Read the untold story of life as a first year medical student at:
> As The Scalpel Turns - http://www.livejournal.com/users/megd/

As a physician at the other end of a medical career, let me recommend 
to all and sundry who want to laugh their glutei maximi off at an 
intern's year, read "The House of God" by Samuel Shem, M.D. (a nom de 
plume to protect the guilty).  This roman a clef left me literally 
breathless from laughter-- and incontinent to boot.  The funniest 
thing is, all the events mentioned in the book have actually happened 
to me personally or to my colleagues.  For those who are fortunate 
enough to find this gem, let me say that I have tried the lasix 
formula, and it does indeed work!

-Haggridd





From dradamsapple at yahoo.com  Sat May  3 05:55:16 2003
From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple)
Date: Sat, 03 May 2003 05:55:16 -0000
Subject: Physician, Heal Thyself !  WAS:Smell of Cabbage
In-Reply-To: <b8v7ta+89fa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b8vlk4+d7c9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Haggridd" 
<jkusalavagemd at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Meg Demeranville" 
> <mdemeran at h...> wrote:
>  
> > Read the untold story of life as a first year medical student at:
> > As The Scalpel Turns - http://www.livejournal.com/users/megd/
> 
> As a physician at the other end of a medical career, let me 
recommend 
> to all and sundry who want to laugh their glutei maximi off at an 
> intern's year, read "The House of God" by Samuel Shem, M.D. (a nom 
de 
> plume to protect the guilty).  This roman a clef left me literally 
> breathless from laughter-- and incontinent to boot.  The funniest 
> thing is, all the events mentioned in the book have actually 
happened 
> to me personally or to my colleagues.  For those who are fortunate 
> enough to find this gem, let me say that I have tried the lasix 
> formula, and it does indeed work!
> 
> -Haggridd

Haggridd,

This sounds perfect!!
As a fellow health-care worker, I think I'll love it!

little HIPPA humor:
I just came back from a conferance this week where one of the MD's 
who spoke told us of an upcomimg seminar in the shadow of HIPPA:
He said, that they anticipate a large crowd, but no-one will be able 
to say anything to anyone, and they won't no who registers, or where 
the talk will be given!! 8)
I know, goofy joke, but it brought the house down!!

thanks for your tip!

Anna . . . 




From Zephyrjaid at aol.com  Sat May  3 10:58:55 2003
From: Zephyrjaid at aol.com (zephyrjaid7)
Date: Sat, 03 May 2003 10:58:55 -0000
Subject: Cruciatus = nerve regeneration?
Message-ID: <b907df+8qmv@eGroups.com>

I've been toying with an idea for a fanfic that involves extensive 
medical magic, and I began to think about the limitations of magic. 
More specifically, how magic could regenerate nerves to ultimately 
reverse conditions like paralysis and blindness.  

Cruciatus is the only spell we really know of that directly effects 
the nervous system, by somehow causing pain. We know that 
overexposure to the curse causes memory loss, probably because of the 
constant exposure to stress hormones such as cortisol and adrenaline 
(which kills nerve cells and causes memory loss). This suggests that 
the spell tricks the mind and then subsequently causes other physical 
reactions not associated with the spell itself, like inducing the 
stress hormones. On the other hand, the spell could have real, 
tangible effects on the nerves and could cause a vast array of 
problems within the body and mind. What does canon evidence point to?
(On a side note, I'm a little baffled by the 
insanity - was this caused by psychiatric drugs or the torture 
itself?) 

Now, if the spellcaster were to use Cruciatus on a person with nerves 
that were already damaged, what would happen? Is it possible to 
regenerate the nerves by shocking the nerve cells into lining up and 
reconnecting? Since the spell's sole purpose is to effectively cause 
pain, would the spell 'fix' something to make the spell work or would 
it fail(assuming the effects are tangible, but then how could they 
NOT be?)? And where do the electrical impulses come in, assuming that 
1) magic somehow consists of some kind of electricity and 2)the 
Cruciatus Curse has a huge electrical charge considering that its 
sole focus is on the nerves?  

How could this work?

If anybody has any ideas or input, please do speak up. :) I've always 
been vaquely fascinated by the Unforgiveable Curses and I've always 
wanted to write about them but couldn't put them into an interesting 
context, so feel free to tell me if I'm crazy or give suggestions 
(hint). 

Thanks!
Zeph, nearly in an insomnia-induced coma (so forgive the crazy 
thoughts that probably don't make sense)  






From Zugzwang_0 at hotmail.com  Sat May  3 11:50:59 2003
From: Zugzwang_0 at hotmail.com (ecceq)
Date: Sat, 03 May 2003 11:50:59 -0000
Subject: Fanfic writer humor - OT but strangely appropriate
In-Reply-To: <b6v3kc+a61g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b90af3+32j0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "psychic_serpent" 
<psychic_serpent at y...> wrote:
> The list has more than a few things that can apply to any fandom.  
> This one made me chuckle:
> 
> 49. You see "AC/DC" written on a power cord and spend fifteen 
> minutes trying to figure out what characters those are and why they 
> would get together. 
> 
> If this were an HP fic, DC could be Dennis Creevey or Doris 
> Crockford.  Still thinking about who 'AC' could be...
> Perhaps Vincent Crabbe's father?  I'll name him Axel Crabbe and to 
> avoid cross-generational problems, DC will be Doris rather than 
> Dennis.  Hmm.  I'm almost afraid to hit 'send' in case someone 
> actually writes this...<vbeg>
> 
> --Barb
would never do that!")

You know you've been reading/writing too much fanfic when you 
actually start trying to work out how you can apply *You know you've 
been reading/writing too much fanfic* lists to your favourite fandom.

Ecce-Q: giggling like mad and admitting that many of the HP spells 
are in my spell check.




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sat May  3 12:39:11 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 08:39:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Happy Birthday, Dazzed Warlock!
Message-ID: <20030503123911.25577.qmail@web41114.mail.yahoo.com>

*surveys the decorated room with satisfaction and
turns up the music*

What do mean it's too early to have the music blaring?
I'm sure the neighbours will understand. :)

Today's birthday honouree is Dazzed Warlock. Birthday
owls can be send care of this list or directly to
dazzednow at hotmail.com

I hope your day is filled with fun, magic and
everything HP.

Happy Birthday, Dazzed Warlock!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf

=====
"We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times."
 blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From zorb47 at cox.net  Sat May  3 16:33:53 2003
From: zorb47 at cox.net (zorb47)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 09:33:53 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Cruciatus = nerve regeneration?
References: <b907df+8qmv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <002901c31191$c9b02440$6401a8c0@ucsd.edu>

Hi Zeph,

I'm not sure that Cruciatus *does* affect the nervous system by the normal pain circuits, actually.  If it's like Imperius in affecting the mind, it could be a completely psychoactive curse.  In other words, the pain's all in the victim's mind.  It's not completely unbelievable that such a strong effect could be produced, especially since we're dealing with a) magic and b) people who fully believe that it's going to hurt.

That said, if it's nerve damage, the insanity can be explained as a coping mechanism.  For example, post-very loud noise deafness is caused by the auditory system overcompensating, causing the ossicles (hammer, anvil, stirrup) to detach from each other in order not to break the membranes.  When they can't be reattached, the deafness is permanent.  Same thing happens with people in extremely traumatic situations.  Their very real amnesia for the event in question is a coping mechanism, so that the mind does not have to relive the experience over and over.

On to regeneration!  It *is* possible, but not to the extent you're suggesting.  If Cruciatus does work via electricity somehow, it's causing all of the neurons in the brain to fire quickly and repeatedly, which is more traumatic than anything else.  It requires a great deal of energy, too.  Plus, just stimulating the neurons wouldn't do much.  The brain hooks up because of experience in the world, over a long period of time.  If you somehow did manage to get the neuron to regrow a synapse, a chancy thing in itself, getting it to hook up *correctly* would be impossible, especially if we're talking about another Cruciatus application.

Zorb, the cognitive science major
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: zephyrjaid7 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 3:58 AM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Cruciatus = nerve regeneration?


  I've been toying with an idea for a fanfic that involves extensive 
  medical magic, and I began to think about the limitations of magic. 
  More specifically, how magic could regenerate nerves to ultimately 
  reverse conditions like paralysis and blindness.  

  Cruciatus is the only spell we really know of that directly effects 
  the nervous system, by somehow causing pain. We know that 
  overexposure to the curse causes memory loss, probably because of the 
  constant exposure to stress hormones such as cortisol and adrenaline 
  (which kills nerve cells and causes memory loss). This suggests that 
  the spell tricks the mind and then subsequently causes other physical 
  reactions not associated with the spell itself, like inducing the 
  stress hormones. On the other hand, the spell could have real, 
  tangible effects on the nerves and could cause a vast array of 
  problems within the body and mind. What does canon evidence point to?
  (On a side note, I'm a little baffled by the 
  insanity - was this caused by psychiatric drugs or the torture 
  itself?) 

  Now, if the spellcaster were to use Cruciatus on a person with nerves 
  that were already damaged, what would happen? Is it possible to 
  regenerate the nerves by shocking the nerve cells into lining up and 
  reconnecting? Since the spell's sole purpose is to effectively cause 
  pain, would the spell 'fix' something to make the spell work or would 
  it fail(assuming the effects are tangible, but then how could they 
  NOT be?)? And where do the electrical impulses come in, assuming that 
  1) magic somehow consists of some kind of electricity and 2)the 
  Cruciatus Curse has a huge electrical charge considering that its 
  sole focus is on the nerves?  

  How could this work?

  If anybody has any ideas or input, please do speak up. :) I've always 
  been vaquely fascinated by the Unforgiveable Curses and I've always 
  wanted to write about them but couldn't put them into an interesting 
  context, so feel free to tell me if I'm crazy or give suggestions 
  (hint). 

  Thanks!
  Zeph, nearly in an insomnia-induced coma (so forgive the crazy 
  thoughts that probably don't make sense)  




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From morrigan at byz.org  Sat May  3 16:41:20 2003
From: morrigan at byz.org (Vicki)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 11:41:20 -0500
Subject: Physician, Heal Thyself !  
In-Reply-To: <b8vlk4+d7c9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <OCEOIOOCLDBFPDHBBCEMEEBKCOAA.morrigan@byz.org>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: On Behalf Of dradamsapple
>
> little HIPPA humor:
> I just came back from a conferance this week where one of the MD's
> who spoke told us of an upcomimg seminar in the shadow of HIPPA:
> He said, that they anticipate a large crowd, but no-one will be able
> to say anything to anyone, and they won't know who registers, or where
> the talk will be given!! 8)
> I know, goofy joke, but it brought the house down!!

HAHAHAHA!!  I'll have to pass this on to my coworkers - I work for the
largest health care data company in the country, so you can just imagine how
much more complicated all of our lives got in the past few months. :|  The
head of my department has been running around singing "Hungry, hungry HIPPA,
it's eating all my time" for months now.

Hey - our national conference was last week - you weren't just down in
Nawlins, were you?

Vicki, hyperly HIPPA-aware




From bkb042 at yahoo.com  Sat May  3 23:59:03 2003
From: bkb042 at yahoo.com (Brian)
Date: Sat, 03 May 2003 23:59:03 -0000
Subject: Mr Rodgers in space
Message-ID: <b91l47+rcq8@eGroups.com>

The International Astronomical Union has extended Mr Rodgers 
Neighborhood into space! For full details, here's a link:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/908463.asp?0dm=N13LT

I, for one, am glad that he's been immortalized in the heavens as 
well as on earth.

Brian




From hphgrwlca at yahoo.com  Sun May  4 00:42:50 2003
From: hphgrwlca at yahoo.com (Christine Acker)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 17:42:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Any other fanfics?
In-Reply-To: <1051881536.937.68813.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030504004250.90212.qmail@web13006.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey all.  Christine here.  Thanks so much to everyone
who responded to my call for fanfics.  I now have no
end of material to feed my obssession!

Thanks,

Christine

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com



From annemehr at yahoo.com  Sun May  4 01:11:15 2003
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 01:11:15 -0000
Subject: Cruciatus = nerve regeneration?
In-Reply-To: <b907df+8qmv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b91pbj+lbth@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "zephyrjaid7" 
<Zephyrjaid at a...> wrote:
> I've been toying with an idea for a fanfic that involves extensive 
> medical magic, and I began to think about the limitations of magic. 
> More specifically, how magic could regenerate nerves to ultimately 
> reverse conditions like paralysis and blindness.  
> 
> Cruciatus is the only spell we really know of that directly effects 
> the nervous system, by somehow causing pain.
<snip>
> If anybody has any ideas or input, please do speak up. :) I've 
always 
> been vaquely fascinated by the Unforgiveable Curses and I've always 
> wanted to write about them but couldn't put them into an interesting 
> context, so feel free to tell me if I'm crazy or give suggestions 
> (hint). 
> 
> Thanks!
> Zeph, nearly in an insomnia-induced coma (so forgive the crazy 
> thoughts that probably don't make sense)

Annemehr:

Well, I don't know whether this will lead to any ideas for you, but 
here goes...

I always thought of Cruciatus as causing all the pain receptors 
throughout the body to fire at full strength and continuously until 
the curse is lifted.  An additional part of the curse is to prevent 
loss of conciousness, as fainting is a defense mechanism of the brain 
to too much pain.

Since the fainting response is thwarted, the victim would fall into 
insanity after too much of the curse.

I'm sorry that this wouldn't further your fic idea, though!

Annemehr




From jeopardy18 at attbi.com  Sun May  4 02:04:28 2003
From: jeopardy18 at attbi.com (seanmulligan2000)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 02:04:28 -0000
Subject: Any other fanfics?
In-Reply-To: <20030504004250.90212.qmail@web13006.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b91sfc+hdpb@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Christine Acker 
<hphgrwlca at y...> wrote:
> Hey all.  Christine here.  Thanks so much to everyone
> who responded to my call for fanfics.  I now have no
> end of material to feed my obssession!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Christine
> 
> __Slytherin Rising by J.L. Matthews________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
> http://search.yahoo.com




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Sun May  4 04:20:16 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 04:20:16 -0000
Subject: Terry Pratchett (was: Smell of Cabbage)
In-Reply-To: <b8ushi+vqld@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b924e0+oucc@eGroups.com>

> Ecce-Q: looking for a love of Shakespeare and rock-opera in 
> Pratchett's works.

Wyrd Sisters.  It's Shakespeare out the wazoo--Macbeth naturally, 
but not only.  The Dysk Theatre, LOL.

Amy Z
pterry and will fan




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Sun May  4 04:43:05 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 04:43:05 -0000
Subject: Terry Pratchett (was: Smell of Cabbage)
In-Reply-To: <b8p65i+f7o9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b925op+g5ma@eGroups.com>

I just have to say that I love the title of this thread.

Abigail, you did a great and amusing job summing up the DW threads, 
and you also share my tastes remarkably.  E.g. I agree that 
Interesting Times is by far the best of the Rincewind books.

The Truth is a tough one to categorize, I agree.  If you think of 
the City Watch thread as being about Patrician-related plots, yes, 
it fits in; and it's set in Ankh-Morpork and has the crime and 
mystery feel; but what puts most of the City Watch books in my top 
10 is Vimes et alia, and you don't get to spend much time with them 
in The Truth.  You don't even get much of Vetinari.  It's 
interesting to read about them as minor characters, though.

If you're dipping a toe into the waters of the Discworld, the 
important thing to know is that even the one-offs aren't one-offs.  
They all fit into the same world, and it's fun to see characters 
whom you know well from one book just passing through another; 
Death, for example, stars in only a handful but appears in almost 
all [all? someone must know] of them, appropriately enough.  Small 
Gods is my favorite and I would probably love it even if I hadn't 
read any of the others, but it's richer for its slight connections 
to the rest of the series.

I like the way the monks are becoming more prominent, having played 
important roles in three novels now.  They're great.  Qu made me 
LMAO, and I'm not even a Bond fan.  So, if you're into Zen, Taoism, 
other paradox-rich philosophies, and/or parodies thereof, try Small 
Gods, Thief of Time, or Night Watch.  (A new DW thread:  the Zen 
thread?)

Amy Z




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Sun May  4 04:44:04 2003
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 04:44:04 -0000
Subject: FILK: Ron of the Burrow
Message-ID: <b925qk+deav@eGroups.com>

Hi, all!  I've never FILKed before, and as this is completely silly, 
I'm posting it here.  If there is a midi, I wouldn't know how to find 
it, sorry.

"Ron of the Burrow" to the tune of the theme song of "George of the 
Jungle"

Ron, Ron, Ron of the Burrow;
Friend to Harry P.
Ron, Ron, flies a Ford Anglia --
(Aaaaaaaaagh!)
Watch out for that tree!
(crunch!)

::ducks rotten tomatoes::

Annemehr





From abigailnus at yahoo.com  Sun May  4 05:47:00 2003
From: abigailnus at yahoo.com (abigailnus)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 05:47:00 -0000
Subject: Terry Pratchett (was: Smell of Cabbage)
In-Reply-To: <b925op+g5ma@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b929gk+anrb@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Amy Z" <lupinesque at y...> wrote: 
> Death, for example, stars in only a handful but appears in almost 
> all [all? someone must know] of them, appropriately enough.  

Death is the only Discworld character to appear in every single one of the Discworld novels.  Someone pointed it out a few years ago, and by this point I think it's a matter of pride with Terry.  That and, of course, in every book at least one person has to die.

Abigail




From pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk  Sun May  4 11:39:22 2003
From: pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk (bluesqueak)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 11:39:22 -0000
Subject: Terry Pratchett (was: Smell of Cabbage)
In-Reply-To: <b929gk+anrb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b92u5a+rveg@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "abigailnus" 
<abigailnus at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Amy Z" <lupinesque at y...> 
wrote: 
> > Death, for example, stars in only a handful but appears in 
almost 
> > all [all? someone must know] of them, appropriately enough.  
> 
> Death is the only Discworld character to appear in every single 
one of the Discworld novels.  Someone pointed it out a few years 
ago, and by this point I think it's a matter of pride with Terry.  
That and, of course, in every book at least one person has to die.
> 
> Abigail

He seems to have broken that rule with the 'Wee Free Men', possibly 
because he couldn't work out how to get Death in the book in a child-
friendly way.

Unless he has a non-speaking role somewhere, and I just didn't spot 
it on the first reading.

Pip






From abigailnus at yahoo.com  Sun May  4 14:27:11 2003
From: abigailnus at yahoo.com (abigailnus)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 14:27:11 -0000
Subject: Terry Pratchett (was: Smell of Cabbage)
In-Reply-To: <b92u5a+rveg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b937vv+6pfv@eGroups.com>

I wrote: 
> > Death is the only Discworld character to appear in every single 
> one of the Discworld novels.  

To which Pip replied: 
> He seems to have broken that rule with the 'Wee Free Men', possibly 
> because he couldn't work out how to get Death in the book in a child-
> friendly way.
> 
> Unless he has a non-speaking role somewhere, and I just didn't spot 
> it on the first reading.

Well, does the Death of Rats appear?  Because, technically, the Death of Rats is a part 
of Death.  He was created when Death was fired, and later when Death was reinstated, 
he allowed the Death of Rats to remain seperate from himself.  

Now that I think of it, I don't think Death himself shows up in The Amazing Maurice 
and His Educated Rodents, but I know that the Death of Rats does.

And, by the way, you would know if Death appeared.  He's a seven-foot tall skeleton 
who TALKS LIKE THIS.  Pretty noticeable.  Also, the first thing most people tend to say 
to him is, "Here, you're Death, aren't you?"

Abigail




From pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk  Sun May  4 14:54:26 2003
From: pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk (bluesqueak)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 14:54:26 -0000
Subject: Terry Pratchett (was: Smell of Cabbage)
In-Reply-To: <b937vv+6pfv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b939j2+qcq6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "abigailnus" 
<abigailnus at y...> wrote:
> I wrote: 
> > > Death is the only Discworld character to appear in every 
single 
> > one of the Discworld novels.  
> 
> To which Pip replied: 
> > He seems to have broken that rule with the 'Wee Free Men', 
> > possibly because he couldn't work out how to get Death in the 
> > book in a child-friendly way.
> > 
> > Unless he has a non-speaking role somewhere, and I just didn't 
> > spot it on the first reading.
> 
> Well, does the Death of Rats appear?  Because, technically, the 
> Death of Rats is a part of Death.  He was created when Death was 
> fired, and later when Death was reinstated, he allowed the Death   
> of Rats to remain seperate from himself.
> Now that I think of it, I don't think Death himself shows up in 
> The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents, but I know that the 
> Death of Rats does.

No, Death is in the Amazing Maurice. I can't say to whom he appears, 
as it would give a lot of the ending away.

> And, by the way, you would know if Death appeared.  He's a seven-
> foot tall skeleton who TALKS LIKE THIS.  Pretty noticeable.  Also, 
> the first thing most people tend to say to him is, "Here, you're 
> Death, aren't you?"

Yeah, that's why I assume he's not in Wee Free Men, because, as you 
say, you do tend to spot him when he appears. It's a bit difficult 
to believe that I missed him.


WARNING: VERY SMALL SPOILER

AS IN THIS ITEM APPEARS WITHIN THE FIRST THREE PAGES OF WEE FREE MEN

SO IT WON'T RUIN MUCH FOR YOU ANYWAY















It's very weird, because one of the major subplots in the book is 
the 9 year old heroine, Tiffany, trying to come to terms with her 
much loved Granny's death (which happened two years before the book 
opens).

So death (small 'd', non-personified) is a big subject in the book. 
But I did not spot Death (capital 'D', personified, looks like he's 
been on a *very severe* diet).

Wee Free Men's a very good book, btw. I suspect the publisher's 
willingness to let Terry experiment with children's novels owes a 
certain amount to good old JKR. PoA and GoF proved that children 
will read fantasy novels dealing with big serious subjects and, more 
important to a publisher, said novels sell by the bucketload.

There is also a very small joke about schools for teaching magic in 
it ;-)

Pip






From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun May  4 15:02:07 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 4 May 2003 15:02:07 -0000
Subject: Reminder - Weekly Chat 
Message-ID: <1052060527.24.79331.m15@yahoogroups.com>


We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Weekly Chat 

Date: Sunday, May 4, 2003 
Time: 11:00AM - 7:00PM CDT (GMT-05:00) 

Hi everyone! 

Don't forget, chat happens today, 11 am Pacific, 2 pm Eastern, 7
pm UK time. *Chat times are not changing for Daylight
Saving/Summer Time.*  Chat generally goes on for about 5 hours,
but can last as long as people want it to last.

Go into any Yahoo chat room and type /join HP:1 
For further info, see the Humongous BigFile, section 3.3.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/hbfile.html#33

Hope to see you there! 

 





From mdemeran at hotmail.com  Sun May  4 15:03:57 2003
From: mdemeran at hotmail.com (Meg Demeranville)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 15:03:57 -0000
Subject: Physician, Heal Thyself !
In-Reply-To: <OCEOIOOCLDBFPDHBBCEMEEBKCOAA.morrigan@byz.org>
Message-ID: <b93a4t+v0u7@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Vicki" <morrigan at b...> 
wrote:
> HAHAHAHA!!  I'll have to pass this on to my coworkers - I work for 
the
> largest health care data company in the country, so you can just 
imagine how
> much more complicated all of our lives got in the past few 
months. :|  The
> head of my department has been running around singing "Hungry, 
hungry HIPPA,
> it's eating all my time" for months now.
> Vicki, hyperly HIPPA-aware

You know, they tried to make us HIPPA aware at school by scheduling 
a movie watching session over our lunch break. I hope everyone out 
there knows what a bad idea that was.... Anyway, we spent the entire 
time laughing at the lady with the broken arm as she wanders around 
the hospital rather than getting it looked at in any way, shape, or 
form. Yeah we believe it. I think our favorite part was the 
following:
"I just read off that computer screen that my neighbor has prostate 
cancer, can I catch it?"
Now the nurse in the scene says nothing. We all laughed our butts 
off. We figured that she should have said something along the lines 
or 'you don't have a prostate' but nope. No comments. 

And they wondered why we were laughing.

Haggrid, by the way, I have read "House of God" as has most of my 
class. We are all waiting for our chance to experience these things.

-Meg




From Zugzwang_0 at hotmail.com  Sun May  4 17:17:29 2003
From: Zugzwang_0 at hotmail.com (ecceq)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 17:17:29 -0000
Subject: Terry Pratchett (was: Smell of Cabbage)
In-Reply-To: <b939j2+qcq6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b93hv9+g8i3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bluesqueak" <pipdowns at e...> 
wrote:
> 
> Wee Free Men's a very good book, btw. I suspect the publisher's 
> willingness to let Terry experiment with children's novels owes a 
> certain amount to good old JKR. PoA and GoF proved that children 
> will read fantasy novels dealing with big serious subjects and, 
more 
> important to a publisher, said novels sell by the bucketload.
> 
 
> Pip

I think C S Lewis proved that with his Narnia series... he tackled a 
number of serious subjects, with his characters having to make some 
very difficult choices.  His work is still much loved by children 
today and still selling well.

I think too that Pratchett's publisher would have been more than 
willing to let him experiment with a children's book dealing 
with 'serious' subjects regardless of JKR, because he's already a 
successful writer for adults and has written six successful novels 
for children.

Not that I want to detract from JKR's achievements, but she, I feel, 
had success partly because the way had already been paved for her by 
other writers.  

EcceQ:- who's been reading fantasy novels for children tackling 
serious subjects for decades. Well, just shy of two decades... I 
wouldn't want anyone to think I'm as old as Dumbledore... nowhere 
near it, oh dearie dearie me no...

All unusual spellings and jarring grammatical quirks are the product 
of my own fevered imagination and any resemblance to those of other 
people (and heaven forbid, real spellings and correct grammar) is 
purely coincidental.





From melclaros at yahoo.com  Sun May  4 19:33:44 2003
From: melclaros at yahoo.com (melclaros)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 19:33:44 -0000
Subject: Terry Pratchett (was: Smell of Cabbage)
In-Reply-To: <b8q3g6+shvp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b93puo+7tsf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Haggridd"


The Truth is my favorite of the Discworld 
> novels-- albeit by a Dwarf's hair-- not least because it introduces 
> my favorite minor character, Otto Chriek.


Agreed! "The Truth" Is my current favorite as well. It all seemed to 
come together in this one.
I adore Otto and hope to see much, much more of him. 

Mel, delighted to find this topic!




From abigailnus at yahoo.com  Sun May  4 22:41:08 2003
From: abigailnus at yahoo.com (abigailnus)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 22:41:08 -0000
Subject: Terry Pratchett (was: Smell of Cabbage)
In-Reply-To: <b939j2+qcq6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b944u4+dsof@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bluesqueak" <pipdowns at e...> wrote:
 
> Wee Free Men's a very good book, btw. I suspect the publisher's 
> willingness to let Terry experiment with children's novels owes a 
> certain amount to good old JKR. PoA and GoF proved that children 
> will read fantasy novels dealing with big serious subjects and, more 
> important to a publisher, said novels sell by the bucketload.

As I mentioned upthread, I was at a signing with Terry Pratchett almost exactly two 
years ago in Chicago.  He took quite a few questions and answers, and someone 
asked him about Harry Potter.  I don't remember his exact words, or whatever it was 
he said about the quality of the books, but with regards to the effects on his own 
sales he said something like "Well, there's this whole group of kids coming out of the 
Potter Factory, and, hey, look!  There's these books with funny covers, and they've got 
wizards in!"

He said it a lot funnier.  I swear, the man could make a discussion about the digestive 
system of sheep funny.

> 
> There is also a very small joke about schools for teaching magic in 
> it ;-)

I've found several references in recent Pratchett books which I think are nudges at HP.  
They're all rather subtle, so I can never be quite sure.  Two (very minor) characters in 
The Truth, for example, are named Hermione, a name which I had never heard before 
reading HP.  In that same book, the main character is described as being a graduate 
of Hugglewinks, which is a boarding school for rich children.  If I remember, I'll quote 
the passage describing it when I get home tomorrow, as it is priceless.

In all fairness to Pratchett, though, he was using the notion of the psychotic boarding 
school way back in Pyramids, which was published in the early 90's.  In Night Watch, 
(the most recent Discworld novel for adults), however, he returns to that setting, and 
reinforces it, this time introducing prefects and common rooms.  Maybe I'll quote that 
scene too. 

Abigai




From rvotaw at i-55.com  Mon May  5 02:34:51 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 21:34:51 -0500
Subject: Harry Potter cross stitch
Message-ID: <008001c312ae$e8116750$b3a0cdd1@RVotaw>

As you may or may not remember, a few weeks ago I began cross stitching a picture of Daniel Radcliffe as Harry Potter from a pattern in a UK cross stitch magazine.  I finished it yesterday and posted a picture on Yahoo.  I'm putting a couple of links here which may or may not work.  If they don't and you want to see it, just go to the Yahoo page for HPFGU-OTChatter and look in the pictures page.  It should be on the second page there.

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/hpfgu-otchatter/vwp?.dir=/&.src=gr&.dnm=HP+cross+stitch.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/hpfgu-otchatter/lst%3f%26.dir=/%26.src=gr%26.view=t

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/groups/g_2766527/HP+cross+stitch.jpg?bctAdt.AsPl6jnTW

The second one should be a direct link to just the picture.

Richelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dradamsapple at yahoo.com  Mon May  5 04:02:45 2003
From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 04:02:45 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter cross stitch
In-Reply-To: <008001c312ae$e8116750$b3a0cdd1@RVotaw>
Message-ID: <b94np5+ts2j@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Richelle Votaw" 
<rvotaw at i...> wrote:
> As you may or may not remember, a few weeks ago I began cross 
stitching a picture of Daniel Radcliffe as Harry Potter from a 
pattern in a UK cross stitch magazine.  I finished it yesterday and 
posted a picture on Yahoo.  I'm putting a couple of links here which 
may or may not work.  If they don't and you want to see it, just go 
to the Yahoo page for HPFGU-OTChatter and look in the pictures page.  
It should be on the second page there.
> 
> http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/hpfgu-
otchatter/vwp?.dir=/&.src=gr&.dnm=HP+cross+stitch.jpg&.view=t&.done=ht
tp%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/hpfgu-otchatter/lst%3f%26.dir=/%
26.src=gr%26.view=t
> 
> http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/groups/g_2766527/HP+cross+stitch.jpg?
bctAdt.AsPl6jnTW
> 
> The second one should be a direct link to just the picture.
> 
> Richelle


Hey Richelle!!

May I be the first to congratulate you on a job well done!!
I've reached the over-40 'Ican'tseeanythingcloserthanmyelbow' stage 
so I'm impressed with the work!
Tell me though, the colors seem a little off (kinda greenish face on 
my end).  Is that a result of the scan?
Otherwise, it looks good!

Anna . . .
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Mon May  5 11:19:48 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 07:19:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Happy Birthday, Alex!
Message-ID: <20030505111948.23383.qmail@web41103.mail.yahoo.com>

*places very large cake on table and surveys the party
room*

Looks ready for a party. Someone open the doors and
let everyone in.

Today's birthday honouree is Alex. Birthday owls can
be sent care of this list or directly to:
dracos_boyfriend at yahoo.co.uk

I hope your day is filled with fun, friends and much
celebrating.

Happy Birthday, Alex!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf

=====
"We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times."
 blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From rvotaw at i-55.com  Mon May  5 12:20:18 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (rvotaw at i-55.com)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 07:20:18 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Harry Potter cross stitch
Message-ID: <24987078.1052137218652.JavaMail.root@webmail.i-55.com>

Anna wrote:

> Hey Richelle!!<BR>
> <BR>
> May I be the first to congratulate you on a job well done!!<BR>
> I've reached the over-40 'Ican'tseeanythingcloserthanmyelbow' stage <BR>
> so I'm impressed with the work!<BR>
> Tell me though, the colors seem a little off (kinda greenish face on <BR>
> my end). Is that a result of the scan?<BR>
> Otherwise, it looks good!<BR>

Thanks Anna!  The greenish coloring was actually from my digital camera (which 
currently needs a new battery and isn't taking the best of pictures!) he's 
really not green. :)

Richelle

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From selene at earthlink.net  Mon May  5 14:42:16 2003
From: selene at earthlink.net (Susan Fox-Davis)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 07:42:16 -0700
Subject: Terry Pratchett (was: Smell of Cabbage)
Message-ID: <3EB67848.B7803144@earthlink.net>

> Death is the only Discworld character to appear in every single
one of the Discworld novels.  Someone pointed it out a few years
ago, and by this point I think it's a matter of pride with Terry.
That and, of course, in every book at least one person has to die.
>
> Abigail

Certainly Death and the other riders o'the apoc. played a
notable part in Pratchett & Gaiman's GOOD OMENS,
albeit in somewhat altered forms.
Pestilance becomes Pollution, etc.

Susan Fox-Davis





From abigailnus at yahoo.com  Mon May  5 21:49:19 2003
From: abigailnus at yahoo.com (abigailnus)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 21:49:19 -0000
Subject: Terry Pratchett (was: Smell of Cabbage)
In-Reply-To: <b944u4+dsof@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b96m8v+baca@eGroups.com>

As promised, the description of Hugglestones from Terry Pratchett's The Truth (p. 35 
in the British paperback edition):

"Hugglestones was a granite building on a rain-soaked moor, and its stated purpose 
was to make men from boys.  The policy employed involved a certain amount of 
wastage, and consisted in William's recollection at least of very simple and violent 
games in the healthy outdoor sleet.  The small, slow, fat or merely unpopular were 
mown down, as nature intended, but natural selection operates in many ways and 
William found that he had a certain capacity for survival.  A good way to survive on 
the playing fields of Hugglestones was to run very fast and shout a lot while 
inexplicably always being a long way from the ball.  This had earned him, oddly 
enough, a reputation for being keen, and keenness was highly prized at 
Hugglestones, if only because actual achievment was so rare.  The staff at 
Hugglestones believed that in sufficient quantities 'being keen' could take the place of 
lesser attributes like intelligence, foresight and training."

Not, upon reflection, particularly reflective of Hogwarts, even if we accept that it is a 
parody.  But then, Hogwarts is a parody of British private schools (which Pratchett 
already lampooned in Pyramids, Soul Music and Thief of Time).  I suspect the recent 
resurgence of upper-class private schools in Discworld novels is at least party 
influenced by Harry Potter.

Abigail




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Mon May  5 21:25:45 2003
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 21:25:45 -0000
Subject: Terry Pratchett (was: Smell of Cabbage)
In-Reply-To: <b939j2+qcq6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b96ksp+95vp@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bluesqueak" 
<pipdowns at e...> wrote:
>
> > > He seems to have broken that rule with the 'Wee Free Men', 
> > > possibly because he couldn't work out how to get Death in 
the book in a child-friendly way.
> > > 
>

Pratchett explains in 'Hogfather' that the inner mind of a child is 
the place Death cannot go...which would account for His 
absence from 'The Wee Free Men.'

Pippin




From cindysphinx at comcast.net  Mon May  5 23:47:43 2003
From: cindysphinx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 23:47:43 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
Message-ID: <b96t6v+t6d6@eGroups.com>

Hey,

I've been contemplating getting back into the job market one of 
these days, hopefully not too soon, mind.  And every time I think 
about it, it depresses me.  Does *anyone* like their job?  What kind 
of job is it, and why do you like it?

In my profession, the really fun jobs require you to kill yourself 
with long hours and travel, and the stable jobs are worse than 
watching paint dry.  Are other professions/jobs like that?

Just idly wondering.

Cindy




From FairyTalePrincss at aol.com  Tue May  6 00:59:35 2003
From: FairyTalePrincss at aol.com (fairytaleprincss)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 00:59:35 -0000
Subject: OOTP net book copy?????????
Message-ID: <b971dn+oso6@eGroups.com>

i'm a member of your sister groups and was referred here with my 
question ... i've been out of the HP loop for awhile so this may not 
be a new question for you ... anyway, here goes :) ... is there any 
info on the veracity of the copy of the OOTP circulating around the 
net???  ... some say that it is an absolute fake while others have 
said that it is a pdf copy of a very early draft ... since the HPFGU 
groups always has its fingers on the HP pulse, i figured i could > 
get the real scoop from you ... thanks :)




From heidit at netbox.com  Tue May  6 01:05:14 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (heidi tandy)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 18:05:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] OOTP net book copy?????????
In-Reply-To: <b971dn+oso6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030506010514.98768.qmail@web80510.mail.yahoo.com>

There are a number of iterations of the "book"
floating around online. Some of them are fanfics that
just happen to have been titled Order of the Phoenix -
but their authors aren't trying to pass them off as
JKR-created. 

Others are on things like KazaA, as you can learn in
this article:
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/lifestyle/050103M01POTTERSCAM.html

I spoke with the article's author, Nancy Pate, last
week on Nimbus - 2003 related business (for more on
Nimbus - 2003, visit http://www.hp2003.org) and she
let me know that the "fakes" differ from fanfic in
that they try to pass themselves off as written by
JKR. 

In my work with The Leaky Cauldron, I've also seen
what purports to be a pdf or gif of the last page of
the book (US edition). However, the grammar is
terrible and there's no way that such bad grammar
could ever make it into the final copy - or even an
early proof - of this book. 

Heidi
--- fairytaleprincss <FairyTalePrincss at aol.com> wrote:
> Real-To:  "fairytaleprincss"
> <FairyTalePrincss at aol.com>
> 
> i'm a member of your sister groups and was referred
> here with my 
> question ... i've been out of the HP loop for awhile
> so this may not 
> be a new question for you ... anyway, here goes :)
> ... is there any 
> info on the veracity of the copy of the OOTP
> circulating around the 
> net???  ... some say that it is an absolute fake
> while others have 
> said that it is a pdf copy of a very early draft ...
> since the HPFGU 
> groups always has its fingers on the HP pulse, i
> figured i could > 
> get the real scoop from you ... thanks :)
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> 
>
________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
> 
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the
> group's Admin Files!
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
> 
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to
> snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're
> replying!
> 
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it
> to HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to
> HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf
> or the Mods -- MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
> 
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____________________________________________________________
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> 
> 


=====
heidi tandy

They say its a sign of mental health to hold apparently contradictory ideas in your mind. The world of late has been a particularly exotic stew of horror and beauty. There are killers, there are saints. The trick is to find the right spot on the spectrum between abject despair and total obliviousness. And then carry on...
Joel Achenbach



From Chasewildstar at attbi.com  Tue May  6 00:41:53 2003
From: Chasewildstar at attbi.com (Chase Wildstar)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 20:41:53 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
References: <b96t6v+t6d6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <002301c31368$4a649c60$9c01f50c@mac>

well, I like what I do, but the hours are a killer.
I work Tool and Die, making plastic injection molds. I operate a machine
called a Gun Drill, and the pay is good, but its "steak and patatoes one
week, and peanut butter sandwitches the next". I.E. the good times come and
go with the economy. Avarage work week is 50 hours when times are steady,
down to 40 for last 6 months, (unheard of in this trade) and now we got
bombed with jobs, and are now on mandatory 60's for 3 months. UUGHHH!
Couldn'd do that in the winter time, NOOOOO.. gotta do it all summer so I
miss all summer.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cindy C." <cindysphinx at comcast.net>
To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 7:47 PM
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Do You Guys Like Your Jobs? Really? Come On, Be
Honest.


> Hey,
>
> I've been contemplating getting back into the job market one of
> these days, hopefully not too soon, mind.  And every time I think
> about it, it depresses me.  Does *anyone* like their job?  What kind
> of job is it, and why do you like it?
>
> In my profession, the really fun jobs require you to kill yourself
> with long hours and travel, and the stable jobs are worse than
> watching paint dry.  Are other professions/jobs like that?
>
> Just idly wondering.
>
> Cindy
>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material
from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- 
MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
> Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>




From FairyTalePrincss at aol.com  Tue May  6 01:43:50 2003
From: FairyTalePrincss at aol.com (fairytaleprincss)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 01:43:50 -0000
Subject: OOTP net book copy?????????
In-Reply-To: <20030506010514.98768.qmail@web80510.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b9740m+jmj5@eGroups.com>

hi heidi ... thx for your response and i checked out the sites you 
cited ... i was given a copy last thursday of this "supposed" Order 
of the Pheonix "draft" and read it (actually engrossed with it would 
be better stated ... read it almost non-stop ... if it's a fake ... i 
take my hat off to the author ... whoever it might be) ... the 
document i received had been condensed to 553 continuous pages in a 
*.pdf file (which i guess would equal almost 800-900 pages in book 
form including illustrations) ... it was very well written, no 
gramatical errors, consistent in its story telling as well as 
characterization, plot building, scenarios, etc. ... the only thing 
to me which seem to be "off" was a couple of sections where 
our "beloved heros" as they are "teen-agers" with raging "hormones" 
were .... well being "teen-agers" ... that just didn't seem to me 
that it would sit well with the folks at scholastic, but in the 
context of actual "teen-agers" in real life ... it didn't 
seem "imposible", but more as what would happen to a tight group of 
co-ed teens in a boarding school who were no longer kids but high 
school freshmen, juniors, and seniors ... if i were to give a movie 
rating to the document i read it would be PG due to these 3 minor 
scenes only ... and what i read did start off with harry in the 
garden on pivot drive ... i'm just curious now as how the author of 
this "fake" was able to keep up the sham through such a long and 
engrossing tale .... thoughts anyone????????????




From rvotaw at i-55.com  Tue May  6 02:18:27 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 21:18:27 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
References: <b96t6v+t6d6@eGroups.com> <002301c31368$4a649c60$9c01f50c@mac>
Message-ID: <003301c31375$c7ec4f40$d6a1cdd1@RVotaw>

Cindy wrote:

> I've been contemplating getting back into the job market one of
> these days, hopefully not too soon, mind.  And every time I think
> about it, it depresses me.  Does *anyone* like their job?  What kind
> of job is it, and why do you like it?

Well, I loved my job for the last two years.  This year it's, well, let's put it this way.  I'm counting the days until the school year's out. I leave home at 6:30 am. I get to work at 7am.  School lets out at just before 3pm.  After that (Monday through Thursday) I teach in the extended day program from 3 to 5.  I get home around 5:30.  Stuck in there someplace is a 25 minute lunch.  So the hours aren't much, all things considered.  I do get paid extra for the extended day program--$21 an hour.  Then of course a pile of stuff comes home with me each day.  Papers, grade book, folder games to make, whatever.  Last year I had the sweetest kids you can imagine.  This year I have the complete opposite. I do, however, have the consolation that it will end in 3 1/2 weeks.

So I guess it all depends!

Richelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dradamsapple at yahoo.com  Tue May  6 03:54:24 2003
From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 03:54:24 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <b96t6v+t6d6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b97blg+jqpf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." <cindysphinx at c...> 
wrote:
> Hey,
> 
> I've been contemplating getting back into the job market one of 
> these days, hopefully not too soon, mind.  And every time I think 
> about it, it depresses me.  Does *anyone* like their job?  What 
kind 
> of job is it, and why do you like it?
> 
> In my profession, the really fun jobs require you to kill yourself 
> with long hours and travel, and the stable jobs are worse than 
> watching paint dry.  Are other professions/jobs like that?
> 
> Just idly wondering.
> 
> Cindy

Cindy,

Great question!  I'm a Medical Technologist.  What is that you say?
Well, you know when you have blood drawn for those dreaded blood 
tests and sent to "The Lab", well, that's me.

My training was pretty intense though:  I have a Bachelors'in Biology 
and a one year internship on top of that.  I felt like I could have 
gone into med school if I wanted too with all the stuff we had to 
know.  And, of course, 90% of what I learned has fallen out of my 
brain cells because I don't use it. 
 
But I LOVE what I do.  I specifically work in a Blood Bank, and have 
done blood banking almost exclusively (i can't spell tho) for the 
past almost 20 years. 

 It's really satisfying to me to know that I like what I do, and am 
good at it, and I can help someone when they really need it. Even 
though it can get really stressful at times, the adrenaline rush is 
worth it! 

And Med Techs can pretty much write their own ticket these days:  
there is a HUGE, nationwide shortage of MT's and MLT's (that's the 
Associated Degree level).  Ever since 1985 when AIDS became known, 
people stopped going into laboratory medicine.  And then a lot of 
techs went on to either nursing, or high tech (biomedical research; 
drug companies) or even teaching.

But, fortunately, or unfortunately, there will always be sick people, 
so you're garranteed a job, somewhere.  It may not be the pay or the 
hours you like, but at least it's work.  A lot of ex-techs still work 
part-time or so because it's pretty predictable work, and a steady 
paycheck, and the pay is not bad.  A new grad starting in the city 
can probably get $15 an hour or so. 

Anyhow, I hoped I perked your interest, although I realize it's not 
something you can decide to do overnite.  But maybe somebody out 
there will decide it sounds good!

Good luck in whatever you choose, and remember, as a fellow co-worker 
of mine says to all of us when we are feeling down, "B Positive"!!
HA!HA!, little blood bank humor!!

Anna . . .(who has the next two days off!!)




From anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net  Tue May  6 04:02:53 2003
From: anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net (Anne)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 04:02:53 -0000
Subject: OOTP net book copy?????????
In-Reply-To: <b9740m+jmj5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b97c5d+tecq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "fairytaleprincss" 
<FairyTalePrincss at a...> wrote:
> hi heidi ... thx for your response and i checked out the sites you 
> cited ... i was given a copy last thursday of this "supposed" Order 
> of the Pheonix "draft" and read it (actually engrossed with it 
would 
> be better stated ... read it almost non-stop ... if it's a fake ... 
i 
> take my hat off to the author ... whoever it might be) ... the 
> document i received had been condensed to 553 continuous pages in a 
> *.pdf file (which i guess would equal almost 800-900 pages in book 
> form including illustrations) ... it was very well written, no 
> gramatical errors, consistent in its story telling as well as 
> characterization, plot building, scenarios, etc. ... the only thing 
> to me which seem to be "off" was a couple of sections where 
> our "beloved heros" as they are "teen-agers" with raging "hormones" 
> were .... well being "teen-agers" ... <snip>i'm just curious now as 
how the author of 
> this "fake" was able to keep up the sham through such a long and 
> engrossing tale .... thoughts anyone????????????

I haven't read this particular "netbook" but I have seen several fan 
fics on FictionAlley called Harry Potter and the Order of the 
Phoenix. Kinda wondered if it was okay for non-JKR writers to use 
*that* title (or PS/SS, COS, POA or GOF) for something JKR didn't 
write. I haven't read any of those fan fics because I want to wait 
for "the real thing" on June 21st. I guess those fan fiction authors 
couldn't wait...

Anne U
(who mostly reads post-Hogwarts fan fiction)





From naama_gat at hotmail.com  Tue May  6 10:38:26 2003
From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naamagatus)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 10:38:26 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <b96t6v+t6d6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b983b2+6e34@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." <cindysphinx at c...> 
wrote:
<snip>
  Does *anyone* like their job?  What kind 
> of job is it, and why do you like it?

At the moment I'm working two half time jobs. One is at a used books 
store, which is rather fun. The second is at the place I used to work 
(and left because I was terribly bored with it). The job is technical 
writing (yuck!). It's boring as hell but pays almost three times as 
much as I get at the book shop. Because there is recession here I 
just couldn't find the kind of job I wanted and sadly returned. 
Still, it's only half time, so it's only half as bad. 

What about working for not-for-profit organizations, Cindy? The pay 
would be much less than in the private sector, but the hours would be 
better and I should think it would be interesting too. 

In my experience, there's a definite trade off, not only between the 
interest level and hours, but also between interest and money. The 
more interesting - the less money <deep deep sigh>.


Naama







From joym999 at aol.com  Tue May  6 12:29:44 2003
From: joym999 at aol.com (joywitch_m_curmudgeon)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 12:29:44 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <b983b2+6e34@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b989ro+38k2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "naamagatus" <naama_gat at h...> 
wrote:
> What about working for not-for-profit organizations, Cindy? The pay 
> would be much less than in the private sector, but the hours would 
be 
> better and I should think it would be interesting too. 
> 
> In my experience, there's a definite trade off, not only between 
the 
> interest level and hours, but also between interest and money. The 
> more interesting - the less money <deep deep sigh>.

My thought, exactly, Cindy.  There are a lot of non-profits that 
could use someone like you.  Of course, you wouldn't make as much $ 
as you could otherwise, which might defeat the whole purpose of 
getting a job.

--JMC




From jmmears at comcast.net  Tue May  6 15:31:55 2003
From: jmmears at comcast.net (serenadust)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 15:31:55 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <b96t6v+t6d6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b98khb+lagf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." 
<cindysphinx at c...> wrote:

> 
> In my profession, the really fun jobs require you to kill yourself 
> with long hours and travel, and the stable jobs are worse than 
> watching paint dry.  Are other professions/jobs like that?
> 
> Just idly wondering.


I'm in a similar situation, Cindy.  I'm not ready to work 60+ hours 
per week in exchange for dental and 2 weeks vacation (after a year).

Have you considered consulting?  Of course, it depends on what field 
you are in but I know people who have business, law, and high-tech 
backgrounds who seem pretty happy with it.  It's sort of like temp 
work, except you get more opportunity to pick and choose projects 
and you have more control over your schedule.  It's not as secure as 
a regular gig, but it's not as aggravating either.

For me, it's either going to be consulting, or a "fun" job at the 
Pottery Barn where I'll work for the employee discount :-).

Good luck,

Jo Serenadust




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Tue May  6 15:55:56 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 15:55:56 -0000
Subject: Terry Pratchett (was: Smell of Cabbage)
In-Reply-To: <b944u4+dsof@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b98luc+a28o@eGroups.com>

Abigail wrote:

> I swear, the man could make a discussion about the digestive 
> system of sheep funny

and probably has.

> I've found several references in recent Pratchett books which I 
think are nudges at HP.  
> They're all rather subtle, so I can never be quite sure.  Two (very 
minor) characters in 
> The Truth, for example, are named Hermione, a name which I had 
never heard before 
> reading HP.  

It also features Harry, the King of the Golden River.  And Foul Ole 
Ron appears, but he goes way back.

> In all fairness to Pratchett, though, he was using the notion of 
the psychotic boarding 
> school way back in Pyramids, which was published in the early 
90's.  

Which would suggest that JKR took the idea from TP.  Slytherin=School 
of Assassins?  <g>

Nah, I think the psychotic boarding school is too much of a staple 
for anyone to be accused to stealing it from anyone else.   The name 
of Hugglestones *does* sound like a nudge at Hogwarts.  But all in 
all, TP, who makes reference to zillions of items of popular culture, 
seems to be steering clear of HP.  What other references do you 
detect?

Amy
feeling a sudden need to buy The Wee Free Men and The Truth




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Tue May  6 16:14:01 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 16:14:01 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <b96t6v+t6d6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b98n09+pedq@eGroups.com>

Yes, I really do.  I don't like everything about it, and the work is 
frequently very difficult; but it's challenging, creative, allows me 
to be a generalist (I was one of those people who couldn't decide 
what to major in because everything was so interesting), and includes 
most of the kinds of work I love best.  (For those who don't know, 
I'm a Unitarian Universalist minister.)

I worked my butt off and spent vast sums of money I didn't have in 
order to get into this field, so it would be rather a shame if I 
didn't like it.  Still, one can do those things and find that the 
work just isn't what one hoped.  I would hope you do have some 
options in your line of work, Cindy, though this isn't the best 
economy to go job-hunting in.

> In my profession, the really fun jobs require you to kill yourself 
> with long hours and travel, and the stable jobs are worse than 
> watching paint dry.  Are other professions/jobs like that?

Um, yeah, that is a bit of a drawback.  Also, the rule that Naama 
notes--the interesting jobs don't pay as well--is definitely true in 
my line of work.

I have major, major objections to jobs that require anyone to work 
more than 40 (or let's say 48, the supposed norm in my job) hours a 
week on a regular basis.  My hours can be irregular and unpredictable-
-if I've already worked a full week and someone dies on Saturday 
afternoon, I'm out of luck and just have to do the funeral on Monday--
but if I have a killer week I make it up to myself the next week by 
doing the bare minimum.  I think it is good modeling for my 
congregants, who also tend to overwork and short-change their 
families and their sanity.  Most of them respect my self-care, as 
long as I work hard and am not pugnacious about setting limits; they 
know that burnout is high among ministers, and they urge me to take 
all of my vacation and model a healthy spiritual life, which means 
making time for meditation, enjoyment, and SLEEP.  The simple fact is 
that we do our work best when we are not overworked and overtired.  
Employers who ask us to burn out make that approach work long-term 
only because having used up one employee, they hire a fresh one and 
burn that one out.  This is not an ethical way to run a business.

I think we might need a white-collar general strike, or rather, 
slowdown--not to half-time, just to full-time.  What would happen if 
*all* of the overworked professionals suddenly began to go home every 
day after 8 hours at the office?  IMO, the economy would not 
collapse, and families would suddenly get a lot healthier.  There are 
lots of countries where it would be unheard-of to require unpaid 
overtime, which is what we consistently require of many salaried 
workers.  They are not in worse economic shape than the USA.

I wonder what would happen, Cindy, if you applied for one of those 
interesting, overly-demanding jobs and informed them, during the 
interview, that you plan to work an average of 40 hours a week in 
order to take care of yourself, sustain a healthy family life, and 
Maybe they wouldn't hire you; or maybe they'd respect it.  (Most 
likely they would hire you and then try to pressure you into working 
60 hours/week <g>.  Good luck!)

Amy Z




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Tue May  6 16:16:59 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 16:16:59 -0000
Subject: FILK: Ron of the Burrow
In-Reply-To: <b925qk+deav@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b98n5r+khvb@eGroups.com>

Anne M wrote:

> "Ron of the Burrow" to the tune of the theme song of "George of the 
> Jungle"

*applause*

Amy Z




From slstich at hotmail.com  Tue May  6 18:17:55 2003
From: slstich at hotmail.com (shanna)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 13:17:55 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
References: <b98n09+pedq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <Law11-OE681tUBesbuy0000ab9e@hotmail.com>

I missed the original post for this tread, so I'm sorry if I'm writing this out of context.  Anyway, I also have one of thoughs jobs that you do mostly because you like it.  I get to work with animals on a daily basis and help people at the same time!  Again, I don't do it to get rich, but I really wouldn't do anything else!  In case anyone's curious, I'm an apprentice instructor at a guide dog training center in the Detroit area.  That's about all for now.
Shanna


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From Audra1976 at aol.com  Tue May  6 18:37:59 2003
From: Audra1976 at aol.com (Audra1976 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 14:37:59 EDT
Subject: OOTP net book copy?????????
Message-ID: <1cd.8f3ef21.2be95b07@aol.com>

Bookstores are going to be getting the real book shipped to them, and despite 
all the restrictions, many many people are going to have the opportunity to 
preview a copy.  I have to believe that there is going to be a leak somewhere 
and sometime soon there will be an actual version of "Order of the Phoenix" 
circulating around the internet.

I haven't read this 800 page pdf file, but if anyone can send me a copy of 
this, fraud or not, I'd be very interested to read it and judge for myself.  

-Audra-





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com  Tue May  6 19:42:16 2003
From: jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com (Haggridd)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 19:42:16 -0000
Subject: Terry Pratchett (was: Smell of Cabbage)
In-Reply-To: <b98luc+a28o@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9936o+i8hv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Amy Z" <lupinesque at y...> 
wrote:

> > I've found several references in recent Pratchett books which I 
> think are nudges at HP.  
> > They're all rather subtle, so I can never be quite sure.  Two 
(very 
> minor) characters in 
> > The Truth, for example, are named Hermione, a name which I had 
> never heard before 
> > reading HP.  
> 
> It also features Harry, the King of the Golden River.  And Foul Ole 
> Ron appears, but he goes way back.
> 
> Amy
> feeling a sudden need to buy The Wee Free Men and The Truth

You can't think that Foul Old Ron could be Ron Weasley? 
*Buggerit! Millenium hand and shrimp!*

Haggridd





From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Tue May  6 20:35:04 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 20:35:04 -0000
Subject: end of unfinished sentence
In-Reply-To: <b98n09+pedq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9969o+5bh4@eGroups.com>

I wrote:

> I wonder what would happen, Cindy, if you applied for one of those 
> interesting, overly-demanding jobs and informed them, during the 
> interview, that you plan to work an average of 40 hours a week in 
> order to take care of yourself, sustain a healthy family life, and 

I feel certain that if responding to one's own posts isn't ipso facto 
a sign of insanity, having to respond to one's own posts in order to 
complete a sentence one left dangling *is*.  Maybe I'm not taking off 
quite enough time?  (Oh, I know the problem.  Every hour not spent on 
work goes to HPfGU.  Hm.)

The sentence was to end thus:

sustain a healthy family life, and furthermore, *do a better job at 
work than you would do if you worked yourself into exhaustion.*

Amy Z




From meboriqua at aol.com  Tue May  6 20:38:40 2003
From: meboriqua at aol.com (jenny_ravenclaw)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 20:38:40 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <b96t6v+t6d6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b996gg+bjav@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." <cindysphinx at c...> 
wrote:
 
> I've been contemplating getting back into the job market one of 
these days, hopefully not too soon, mind.  And every time I think 
about it, it depresses me.  Does *anyone* like their job?  What kind 
of job is it, and why do you like it?
> 
In my profession, the really fun jobs require you to kill yourself 
with long hours and travel, and the stable jobs are worse than 
watching paint dry.  Are other professions/jobs like that?>

Hey Cindy -

If you, Cindy, don't know how I feel about my job, then I guess you 
haven't been paying any attention to me since you joined HPFGU way 
back when.  :-P  For those of you who don't know me from a hole in the 
wall, I teach English at an alternative public high school in the 
South Bronx.  The stress can be overwhelming and the conditions 
literally make me sick all the time, but I am so proud of what I do, I 
cannot imagine doing anything else or working with anyone other than 
my kids.  I sure as hell couldn't sit in an office in front of a 
computer and next to a phone all day.  I'd be fired in a second... in 
fact, I was fired from a number of jobs before I became a teacher.  

I must agree with Amy about how insane the work week has become.  
There is NO WAY I would ever take a job that expected me to work well 
into the evenings.  I treasure my summers off and if I was Queen of 
the World, I'd make the work week four days instead of five.  I'm 
lucky enough to live with a man who feels the same way even though he 
loves what he does too (tennis instructor now, HVAC technician next 
year).  One of the reasons we like to work is to enjoy our time off!

I guess what you need to think about is why you want to go back to 
work.  If Raul and I won the lottery, I'd probably quit tomorrow and 
never work again (I'd volunteer, though).  It also can't hurt to send 
out your resume just to see what happens.  Maybe something great will 
come along.  Maybe no one will respond at all.  Maybe you'll take a 
job and hate it.  The nice thing is that you can always quit.  

--Jenny, who actively fantasizes all the time about winning the 
lottery **************************************




From siskiou at earthlink.net  Tue May  6 20:26:12 2003
From: siskiou at earthlink.net (Susanne)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 13:26:12 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: OOTP net book copy?????????
In-Reply-To: <b9740m+jmj5@eGroups.com>
References: <b9740m+jmj5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <97159664020.20030506132612@earthlink.net>



Hi,

Monday, May 05, 2003, 6:43:50 PM, FairyTalePrincss at aol.com wrote:

> and what i read did start off with harry in the 
> garden on pivot drive ...

Did it also have the other published spoiler scene in it?
And did it match the hints from the summary?

Was it as "layered" plot-wise, as the previous books?

-- 
Best regards,
 Susanne                           mailto:siskiou at earthlink.net




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Tue May  6 20:53:41 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 20:53:41 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <b996gg+bjav@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b997cl+u6nr@eGroups.com>

Jenny wrote:

> I sure as hell couldn't sit in an office in front of a 
> computer and next to a phone all day.  I'd be fired in a second... 
in 
> fact, I was fired from a number of jobs before I became a teacher. 

It just goes to show that the old adage is true:  those who can't do, 
teach.  <ducks flying rollbooks, grinning>

Before someone who doesn't know me as well as Jenny does flames me:  
I'm joking; I've been a teacher myself; I think people who teach in 
the South Bronx should get a Congressional Medal of Honor, 
knighthood, and sainthood, not to mention free health care for life 
since they're breathing in toxins all day long.
 
> I guess what you need to think about is why you want to go back to 
> work.  

Good advice.

> If Raul and I won the lottery, I'd probably quit tomorrow and 
> never work again (I'd volunteer, though).  

I wonder about this sometimes.  I think I'd keep working, because I 
love my work, and I think having *only* leisure would make me very 
depressed.  One needs a sense of purpose.  But I might cut down to 
part-time and have more time to do things like art that I don't have 
much time for now; or I might just volunteer.  

Amy Z
who doesn't buy lottery tickets, so the question is moot




From psychic_serpent at yahoo.com  Tue May  6 21:14:12 2003
From: psychic_serpent at yahoo.com (psychic_serpent)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 21:14:12 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <Law11-OE681tUBesbuy0000ab9e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <b998j4+dcai@eGroups.com>

I've had jobs I liked and jobs I just had for the money.  When I 
started working as a kid--babysitting and then as a cashier at a 
fast-food restaurant--it was just for the money, obviously.  
(Although I suppose some people do babysitting because they really 
love to try to discipline other people's kids who have no reason to 
obey, or who work at McDonald's--not where I worked--because they 
like going home every night smelling like a deep-fat fryer.)  One 
job I had in college that I really did like was being the drama 
counselor at a summer camp, although the pay wasn't great and it was 
really hectic.  I had six weeks to put together both a talent show 
and an abbreviated production of "Oliver!"  I had to learn to play 
the entire score of the musical by then, audition all of the cast, 
coach the kids on their singing, work with the dance counselor on 
the choreography and direct the show.  In short, I went nuts and 
loved every minute.  It made me feel like all of my theatre training 
in high school was FOR something.

However, I also knew that I was glad when it was over.  The theatre 
wasn't for me on a regular basis--sometimes, as an outlet and a fun 
hobby, but not something I wanted to try to do as a living.  I have 
a great deal of respect for folks who pound the pavements going to 
one audition after another and then spend 16-hour days in rehearsals 
(blocking was something I always hated--I was bored to tears) before 
opening night.  

After that, I waited tables for a few years just to pay the rent 
while going to school.  I never want to do that again as long as I 
live, if I can help it.  (I'm a fabulous tipper now--most ex-
waitstaff are.)  After finishing school, I did what anyone does who 
studies Classics does if they don't go to grad school--I became a 
low-paid clerical worker.  And I do mean low-paid.  I was making 
more as a waitress.  But I was eventually promoted to a job created 
just for me (and there was a 50% raise), so that was nice.  Until I 
was laid off.  (When they didn't have enough money the following 
year, they decided they could 'uncreate' my new job.  Along with me, 
25% of the staff lost their jobs in an across-the-board cut.)  If 
you think having a frustrating, time-consuming job is no fun, well 
being suddenly unemployed is no fun either.  ("I can tell you for 
certain that the board said there will be no cuts in your 
department."  Yeah, right.)

The trouble is, after you're unemployed, whatever someone offers you 
starts to look really good.  Or, how I wound up being a medical 
editor for two-and-a-half-years.  Next-to-worst job I ever had.  
(Worst was a waitressing job I had for two nights before I quit in 
the middle of a shift and went back to my old restaurant, begging 
for my old job back.)  When my son was a year old I quit and didn't 
look back.  It wasn't a bad job because of the working conditions or 
any number of other things that one can find frustrating or hateful 
about a job.  It just was not for me, and I felt absolutely no 
affinity with any of the people with whom I worked.  I was a 
complete fish out of water.

Another job I've had sporadically over the years is as a free-lance 
singer in chamber groups and for churches and synagogues, plus doing 
wedding gigs and caroling during the Christmas season.  This is a 
job I've always enjoyed, as I decide when I work, for the most part, 
and if a gig isn't right, I don't accept.  Even though I didn't 
start voice training until I was out of college, I've had the chance 
to sing on stage at the Academy of Music here in Philadelphia 
(Haydn's Creation), I've sung with numerous graduates of the Curtis 
Institute of Music and the Academy of Vocal Arts (including Richard 
Troxell!) and I've had the opportunity to sing loads of fabulous 
music and hear other singers with beautiful voices who are always 
inspirations.  I never felt the motivation to pursue music full 
time, but it's nice when I get a gig, because I know I'm going to 
enjoy myself and get paid while I'm at it!  I just did a concert as 
a guest artist with the Philadelphia Chamber Chorus that included 
the Brahms Requiem and John Rutter's setting of numerous American 
Spirituals which just knocked people off their feet.  I've been 
humming the music from the concert constantly!  (In a case like this 
it's fun to take your work home.)

Now I'm studying architecture, since I spent about twenty-five years 
of my life spending most of my spare time drawing floor plans and 
elevations and reading about design.  I'm also writing HP 
fanfiction, which has led me to return to working on original 
fiction, something I haven't done since just before I became a mom.  
I hope that as I grow old, I can continue to pursue all of the 
creative things I enjoy--design, singing and writing--so that I 
never feel like I'm doing something just for the money.  With any 
luck, by the time the kids are in college I'll be making enough 
money as an architect that my husband can take early retirement and 
pursue HIS artistic interests.  He works very hard as a computer 
programmer to keep a roof over our heads, and he's been supportive 
of my going back to school from day one.  He enjoys the challenge of 
his job, but I know that there are others things he'd rather be 
doing.  Hopefully, someday I can help him do them, as he's helping 
me work toward my dream now.

--Barb

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychic_Serpent
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb







From psychic_serpent at yahoo.com  Tue May  6 21:36:18 2003
From: psychic_serpent at yahoo.com (psychic_serpent)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 21:36:18 -0000
Subject: OOTP net book copy?????????
In-Reply-To: <b9740m+jmj5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b999si+qqlr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "fairytaleprincss" 
<FairyTalePrincss at a...> wrote:
> hi heidi ... thx for your response and i checked out the sites you 
> cited ... i was given a copy last thursday of this "supposed" 
Order of the Pheonix "draft" and read it (actually engrossed with it 
would be better stated ... read it almost non-stop ... if it's a 
fake ... i take my hat off to the author ... whoever it might 
be) ... the document i received had been condensed to 553 continuous 
pages in a *.pdf file (which i guess would equal almost 800-900 
pages in book form including illustrations) ... it was very well 
written, no gramatical errors, consistent in its story telling as 
well as characterization, plot building, scenarios, etc. ... the 
only thing to me which seem to be "off" was a couple of sections 
where our "beloved heros" as they are "teen-agers" with 
raging "hormones" were .... well being "teen-agers" ... that just 
didn't seem to me that it would sit well with the folks at 
scholastic, but in the context of actual "teen-agers" in real 
life ... it didn't seem "imposible", but more as what would happen 
to a tight group of co-ed teens in a boarding school who were no 
longer kids but high school freshmen, juniors, and seniors ... if i 
were to give a movie rating to the document i read it would be PG 
due to these 3 minor scenes only ... and what i read did start off 
with harry in the garden on pivot drive ... i'm just curious now as 
how the author of this "fake" was able to keep up the sham through 
such a long and engrossing tale .... thoughts anyone????????????

Me:

Well, if there was a psychic garden snake in it named Sandy whom 
Harry found in the garden on Privet Drive, that was my fic "Harry 
Potter and the Psychic Serpent."  A slew of alert readers have been 
telling me that someone (maybe more than one someone?) has uploaded 
this onto Kazaa sites with the altered title, "Harry Potter and the 
Order of the Phoenix."  I have not been credited as the author and 
the folks who contacted me said they did a web search to find out 
who'd written it.  

Unfortunately, because of the anonymous nature of Kazaa, I have no 
way of knowing who's trying to pass off my work in this way.  It is 
in fact meant for older readers, rather than young kids (I've rated 
it R), but it was never meant to be a 'sham,' just fanfiction.  It's 
archived on numerous fanfiction sites and has two sequels and a 
prequel.  (My version of Harry's year seven and the prequel are 
still works in progress.) 

IMO, it's really not good to upload someone's work without asking 
their permission.  I wish I had some control over this, but without 
bothering to download Kazaa software myself, I can't even access the 
file-sharing sites and check to see whether people have posted files 
with all of my formatting and notes. It's a bit frustrating.  The 
least they could have done is keep my original title and credit me 
as the author, plus making it clear that it's a fanfiction and that 
no one (not me, at any rate) is trying to 'fool' people into 
thinking it's the new book.

--Barb

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychic_Serpent
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb





From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Tue May  6 21:57:55 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 21:57:55 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <b998j4+dcai@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b99b53+gk25@eGroups.com>

Hey, Roches fans, Barb was the inspiration for "Mr. Sellack"!

> (Worst was a waitressing job I had for two nights before I quit in 
> the middle of a shift and went back to my old restaurant, begging 
> for my old job back.)  

http://www.roches.com/roches/TheRochesLyrics.html

Amy Z
glad Barb has a better job nowadays




From boggles at earthlink.net  Tue May  6 23:35:30 2003
From: boggles at earthlink.net (Jennifer Boggess Ramon)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 18:35:30 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come
 On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <b96t6v+t6d6@eGroups.com>
References: <b96t6v+t6d6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <p05200f00baddf674a5e2@[192.168.1.100]>

At 11:47 PM +0000 5/5/03, Cindy C. wrote:
>Hey,
>
>I've been contemplating getting back into the job market one of
>these days, hopefully not too soon, mind.  And every time I think
>about it, it depresses me.  Does *anyone* like their job?  What kind
>of job is it, and why do you like it?

I teach high school kids math in an urban high school in the Houston 
metro area.

I can't say I like my job every day.  I certainly can't say it's not 
stressful.  But I can say I wouldn't give it up for anything.  And, 
now that it looks like I'll mostly be working with the brighter (or 
at least more motivated) kids, I anticipate next year being even 
better than this one.

>In my profession, the really fun jobs require you to kill yourself
>with long hours and travel, and the stable jobs are worse than
>watching paint dry.  Are other professions/jobs like that?

Long hours are a problem in teaching, although perhaps not as much as 
other jobs (and you can always bring the grading home, if you really 
want to).  Travel is not.  Boredom, when one is working with 
teenagers, is not an issue!

-- 

  - Boggles, aka J. C. B. Ramon			boggles(at)earthlink.net
"It is not knowledge, but the act of learning, not possession but the 
act of getting there, which grants the greatest enjoyment. "
	- Gauss, in a Letter to Bolyai, 1808.



From joym999 at aol.com  Tue May  6 23:44:45 2003
From: joym999 at aol.com (joywitch_m_curmudgeon)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 23:44:45 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <b997cl+u6nr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b99hdd+b162@eGroups.com>

Jenny wrote:
> > If Raul and I won the lottery, I'd probably quit tomorrow and 
> > never work again (I'd volunteer, though).  
> 

Amy wrote:
> I wonder about this sometimes.  I think I'd keep working, because I 
> love my work, and I think having *only* leisure would make me very 
> depressed.  One needs a sense of purpose.  But I might cut down to 
> part-time and have more time to do things like art that I don't 
have 
> much time for now; or I might just volunteer.  

Yeh, I guess I'm the living example of just how bad it can be to have 
too much leisure.  I've been working PT for the last 7 or so years.  
While I was writing my thesis, it was great, because it paid the 
bills and left me enough time to write the damn thing, which occupied 
90% of my energy until a year ago.  Once it was done, though, I was 
left with my whole life (minus 10 hr/wk) for leisure.  For the first 
6 months, it was great.  I imagine lottery winners feel the same 
way.  However, for the last six months, it's been increasingly 
depressing. I'm not really bored, and always busy, since I volunteer 
and have a million hobbies, and as a lot of people including Amy and 
Jenny and Cindy know, being on the admin team of HPfGU can be a 
little (!) on the time-consuming side, especially lately.  But, yeah, 
that sense of purpose.  Without it, life does get depressing.  
Although, just because you have a FT job doesn't mean you have a 
sense of purpose.

Cindy, I wonder if you're not feeling the same thing I am.  I know 
you also do PT consulting work that you're not too stimulated by, and 
maybe your kids are getting old enough that they don't need a FT Mom 
anymore?  Maybe a job that gave you that sense of purpose, even if it 
didn't pay all that well, and even if it wasn't in your field, or 
wasn't exactly in your field, would be better than a well-paying job?

--Joywitch, who definitely does not want to win the lottery




From rvotaw at i-55.com  Tue May  6 23:59:52 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 18:59:52 -0500
Subject: (moved from [HPforGrownups]) Re: Oop copies found
References: <1db.9258e80.2be990dc@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00c401c3142b$96496ed0$1ba1cdd1@RVotaw>

Meliss9900 wrote:

> I find it curious that this man's first impluse was to call the Sun not the 
> police. He knew it was important otherwise he wouldn''t have called them.

I'm moving this over to chatter, since my reply really isn't relevant to the book.  Anyway, I'm trying to think what I would do if I'd find a copy of OotP lying in a field.  Truth be told, I'd probably run straight home, lock all the doors and cover the windows, hide in my bedroom and read it cover to cover.  But if one is intent on turning it in, wouldn't it be logical to call either the police or Bloomsbury?

Richelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From hphgrwlca at yahoo.com  Wed May  7 01:24:23 2003
From: hphgrwlca at yahoo.com (Christine Acker)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 18:24:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OOTP net book copy?????????
In-Reply-To: <1052268641.1063.41671.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030507012423.46682.qmail@web13006.mail.yahoo.com>

Audra wrote:

Bookstores are going to be getting the real book
shipped to them, and 
despite 
all the restrictions, many many people are going to
have the 
opportunity to 
preview a copy.

Me:

Am I going nutters here?  Because I was under the
impression (don't ask me where I got this info, I
really don't remember) that the books were being
shipped to the stores only the day or two before (June
19 or 20) *precisely* so that won't happen.

I talked to my Creative Writing teacher about it
today, and she too believed that was the case.

Anyone know anything real about this?  A Legitimate
source, maybe?  That might clear a few things up.

Christine, who has an AP Calc test Thursday morning
and a Heart of Darkness paper to write and should
really be working on them but is instead doing this

P.S.  I tried to email R.J. Anderson, author of the
Darkness and Light trilogy, at the email in her fics,
but couldn't get to her.  Anyone know her new email? 
Or, Rebecca, are you reading this?

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com



From cindysphinx at comcast.net  Wed May  7 01:24:39 2003
From: cindysphinx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 01:24:39 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <b99hdd+b162@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b99n8n+b5tu@eGroups.com>

Joywitch:

> Cindy, I wonder if you're not feeling the same thing I am.  I know 
> you also do PT consulting work that you're not too stimulated by, 
>and maybe your kids are getting old enough that they don't need a 
>FT Mom anymore?  Maybe a job that gave you that sense of purpose, 
>even if it didn't pay all that well, and even if it wasn't in your 
>field, or wasn't exactly in your field, would be better than a well-
>paying job?

Ugh.

You know what the problem is, don't you?  

I don't know what I want to be when I grow up, that's the 
problem.  ;-)

Well, I do know, actually.  I want to be a world-famous author of a 
blockbuster series of children's books, and then I'd live in my 
mansion in Sco--

What?  What are you laughing at?

Eh.  Maybe I'll just hide for a few more years.  I don't know how to 
actually *do* anything other than law, after all.  ;-)

Cindy -- counting a few teachers, an architect and a minister among 
the group, but figuring there must be other occupations out there




From rvotaw at i-55.com  Wed May  7 01:39:19 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 20:39:19 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
References: <b99n8n+b5tu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <006f01c31439$7b578310$439ccdd1@RVotaw>

Cindy wrote:

> You know what the problem is, don't you?  
> 
> I don't know what I want to be when I grow up, that's the 
> problem.  ;-)

I know exactly what you mean.  I'm 26, I've been teaching for four years. I still think of what I REALLY want to be. Don't get me wrong, I love teaching (particularly when I actually have "sponges"--gotta love those kids who soak it up!). However, there are certain stresses (whiny eight year olds who act two for one example).  My immediate career goal is to get my five years experience in one school, which opens me up to a lot more possibilities.  All positions in, say, the university Lab school, school board, etc. require 5 years experience and a Master's degree.  I've got the Master's, just got to get in more years.  I don't picture myself in the classroom like I am now for thirty years (yippee, I can retire in 26 years!).  My Master's degree is in educational technology (I just had myself timed on a computer for my typing speed, I'd been saying for years I typed 80 wpm, but it seems to have improved to at least 95 wpm.  There's got to be something more I can do with that typing than email!).  The particular position I'd like doesn't yet exist, at least not in Louisiana.  I'd like to teach computer lab all day long, and that way I'd only have each group of kids for an hour or less.  Teach actual lessons, not just stick them on a self guided program like our current computer lab does.

Now, for what I'd REALLY like to do.  One of two things.  Move to the UK and teach in an all boys school (yes, I'm nuts, would they even hire me?).  Or work at the Lego place either creating new designs or as a Grand Master Builder (ooh!).  Yep, that's the truth--my goals in life.

Richelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From Ripleywriter at aol.com  Wed May  7 02:04:01 2003
From: Ripleywriter at aol.com (Ripleywriter at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 22:04:01 EDT
Subject: Anybody work in a book store?
Message-ID: <79.106f1889.2be9c391@aol.com>

Hey,

  After all the interesting conversation about people's jobs, I was hoping I 
might find someone who worked in a bookstore that will be getting shipments 
of OotP. I'd love to interview you for my HP project, as the people at my 
local bookstores are rather dull and not very helpful. Lots of uh's and "I 
don't know". 

  This has nothing to do with getting an advance copy of the book, btw. All 
the fun is in waiting after all. I'd just like to ask questions along the 
lines of how many books you'll be getting, how many people have reserved a 
copy, if you have a countdown sign, etc. It'd be mighty helpful!

Thanks, and here's hoping at least one person works in a book store,

Melly



From illyana at mindspring.com  Wed May  7 02:12:49 2003
From: illyana at mindspring.com (illyana delorean)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 19:12:49 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Anybody work in a book store?
In-Reply-To: <79.106f1889.2be9c391@aol.com>
Message-ID: <66BA7319-8031-11D7-AB1B-003065B8B954@mindspring.com>


On Tuesday, May 6, 2003, at 07:04  , Ripleywriter at aol.com wrote:

> Hey,
>
> ? After all the interesting conversation about people's jobs, I was 
> hoping I
> might find someone who worked in a bookstore that will be getting 
> shipments
> of OotP. I'd love to interview you for my HP project, as the people at 
> my
> local bookstores are rather dull and not very helpful. Lots of uh's 
> and "I
> don't know".
>
> ? This has nothing to do with getting an advance copy of the book, 
> btw. All
> the fun is in waiting after all. I'd just like to ask questions along 
> the
> lines of how many books you'll be getting, how many people have 
> reserved a
> copy, if you have a countdown sign, etc. It'd be mighty helpful!
>
> Thanks, and here's hoping at least one person works in a book store,
>
> Melly
>

Awww... I used to work at a Barnes & Noble, but I don't anymore. 
However, I do know that they have one of those countdown things (where 
you turn the page everyday) at the customer service desk and they're 
having an OOtP release party at midnight on June 21st. I am good 
friends with a lot of my former co-workers, though, so I might be able 
to find out some information for you if you'd like me to.

illyana

HPGCv1
a22 e+ x+* Rm Ri HP4 S+++ Mo++ HG+/VK++ HaP+/SS+++& FGW++ DM++& VC-- 
GG-- CD+ VK++ SS+++& PT--- AF-- MM++ RL++ O+m FAo F- Sl FHo SfD

visit my livejournal! http://www.livejournal.com/users/illyanadmc


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From Chasewildstar at attbi.com  Wed May  7 02:03:18 2003
From: Chasewildstar at attbi.com (Chase Wildstar)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 22:03:18 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
References: <b99n8n+b5tu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001301c3143c$d421e410$9c01f50c@mac>

Ya know, I think the real problem is that we spend too much time making a
living, that we forget to make ourselves a good life.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cindy C." <cindysphinx at comcast.net>
To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 9:24 PM
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs? Really? Come On,
Be Honest.


> Joywitch:
>
> > Cindy, I wonder if you're not feeling the same thing I am.  I know
> > you also do PT consulting work that you're not too stimulated by,
> >and maybe your kids are getting old enough that they don't need a
> >FT Mom anymore?  Maybe a job that gave you that sense of purpose,
> >even if it didn't pay all that well, and even if it wasn't in your
> >field, or wasn't exactly in your field, would be better than a well-
> >paying job?
>
> Ugh.
>
> You know what the problem is, don't you?
>
> I don't know what I want to be when I grow up, that's the
> problem.  ;-)
>
> Well, I do know, actually.  I want to be a world-famous author of a
> blockbuster series of children's books, and then I'd live in my
> mansion in Sco--
>
> What?  What are you laughing at?
>
> Eh.  Maybe I'll just hide for a few more years.  I don't know how to
> actually *do* anything other than law, after all.  ;-)
>
> Cindy -- counting a few teachers, an architect and a minister among
> the group, but figuring there must be other occupations out there
>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material
from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- 
MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
> Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>




From bruney200 at yahoo.com  Wed May  7 03:34:51 2003
From: bruney200 at yahoo.com (tasha)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 20:34:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Anybody work in a book store?
In-Reply-To: <79.106f1889.2be9c391@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20030507033451.22750.qmail@web40509.mail.yahoo.com>

Im currently working at Waldenbooks seasonal and I can tell you how many people have come into the store and reserved a copy. Let me tell you a secret. If you go into Waldenbooks and you ask to get a Preferred Reader card and then reserve your copy of OoF you will 10% off right then and there and when the book comes you will 30% off when you pick it up and pay for the rest of the book. The book at Waldenbooks is going to be $35.95 and you can put a down payment on it until it comes. We definitly have a sign on the counter and all over the walls saying how long the book will come and we even reserved a shelf to put the books in and a big banner saying "This is for the great Harry Potter and the Order of the Pheniox all hail to this shelf and bow before it knowing he is the one and the only to save us all from Lord Voldemort" its funny i know but do you know how tense the employees are? They are so crazy that they dont know what they are doing especially when someone comes up to them about a question of Harry Potter and they turn to me for the questions. I just love being the all knowing Harry Potter fanatic. Tasha

Ripleywriter at aol.com wrote:Hey,

  After all the interesting conversation about people's jobs, I was hoping I 
might find someone who worked in a bookstore that will be getting shipments 
of OotP. I'd love to interview you for my HP project, as the people at my 
local bookstores are rather dull and not very helpful. Lots of uh's and "I 
don't know". 

  This has nothing to do with getting an advance copy of the book, btw. All 
the fun is in waiting after all. I'd just like to ask questions along the 
lines of how many books you'll be getting, how many people have reserved a 
copy, if you have a countdown sign, etc. It'd be mighty helpful!

Thanks, and here's hoping at least one person works in a book store,

Melly

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/

Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying!

Is your message...
An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com

Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
____________________________________________________________ 

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---------------------------------
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The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Wed May  7 04:15:12 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 04:15:12 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <b99n8n+b5tu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9a18g+8039@eGroups.com>

Cindy:

> I don't know what I want to be when I grow up, that's the 
> problem.  ;-)
> 
> Well, I do know, actually.  I want to be a world-famous author of a 
> blockbuster series of children's books, and then I'd live in my 
> mansion in Sco--
> 
> What?  What are you laughing at?

*covers mouth*  Who's laughing? 

But who needs to be a world-famous author of a blockbuster series, 
living in a mansion in Scotland?  Life's pretty darn good for those 
of us who just get to READ the series, if you ask me.  In short, the 
solution to not knowing what you want to be when you grow up is . . . 
don't grow up.

OK, no mansion in Scotland for us mere groupies, but it's a lot 
easier to read the things than to write them.

"Harry's at Hogwarts, all's right with the world"

Amy




From psychic_serpent at yahoo.com  Wed May  7 04:27:05 2003
From: psychic_serpent at yahoo.com (psychic_serpent)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 04:27:05 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <b9a18g+8039@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9a1up+n8k3@eGroups.com>

Well, I didn't figure out what I wanted to be when I grow up until I 
was 34.  Five years later, I'm still working toward that, but having 
the goal makes it all so much easier.  One of my architecture 
professors is a woman who also decided to go into this field when 
she was in her mid-thirties, and she was raising a son by herself.  
One of the largest design firms in Philly has a principal who is a 
woman who went to architecture school after she already had five 
kids to raise.  I love being able to look up to these other women 
(in a field still dominated very much by men) as my inspiration.  
They've shown me that it's never too late to discover or follow your 
dream.

--Barb

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychic_Serpent
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb


--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Amy Z" <lupinesque at y...> 
wrote:
> Cindy:
> 
> > I don't know what I want to be when I grow up, that's the 
> > problem.  ;-)
> > 
> > Well, I do know, actually.  I want to be a world-famous author 
of a 
> > blockbuster series of children's books, and then I'd live in my 
> > mansion in Sco--
> > 
> > What?  What are you laughing at?
> 
> *covers mouth*  Who's laughing? 
> 
> But who needs to be a world-famous author of a blockbuster series, 
> living in a mansion in Scotland?  Life's pretty darn good for 
those 
> of us who just get to READ the series, if you ask me.  In short, 
the 
> solution to not knowing what you want to be when you grow up 
is . . . 
> don't grow up.
> 
> OK, no mansion in Scotland for us mere groupies, but it's a lot 
> easier to read the things than to write them.
> 
> "Harry's at Hogwarts, all's right with the world"
> 
> Amy




From SlightlyCashews at aol.com  Wed May  7 05:05:53 2003
From: SlightlyCashews at aol.com (benevolntgoddess1)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 05:05:53 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <p05200f00baddf674a5e2@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <b9a47h+n6lr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, At 11:47 PM +0000 5/5/03, 
Cindy C. wrote:
>Hey,
>
>I've been contemplating getting back into the job market one of
>these days, hopefully not too soon, mind. And every time I think
>about it, it depresses me. Does *anyone* like their job? What kind
>of job is it, and why do you like it?

I love my job, I'm an artist, making carnival masks which I sell at 
shows and online. I also do a bit of web design on the side. I do 
several craft and art shows a year, which I love doing. Meeting 
people and talking about art and possibilities is great fun. Seeing 
folks try on my pieces is wonderful - unfortunately, art is expensive 
and sales are hard to come by a lot of times because I have to charge 
so much. If it is something that interests you and you can put the 
time and effort into travelling for shows, you *can survive on it. I 
really enjoy both web design and my art. Unfortunately, the shows 
that people spend money at are really seasonal, so I have to look for 
a 9-5, which I just dread. 

For a very long time I was a theater and TV professional, both in 
front of the audience and behind the scenes.  Being a single mom 
doesn't lend to rehearsals that end at midnight, though ? so life 
changed. When my little one is old enough, I'll be back there. If you 
love entertainment, go for it, but have a backup plan because the 
hours and pay are terrible, but it's the most fun you'll ever have. 

Good Luck!
BG





From trinity61us at yahoo.com  Wed May  7 05:22:08 2003
From: trinity61us at yahoo.com (alex fox)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 05:22:08 -0000
Subject: HP Books found in field
Message-ID: <b9a560+liec@eGroups.com>

 Wow, this is so weird! A man found 2 copies of OOP in a field while 
walking! It's the real deal! The Sun has them now, and are going to 
turn them over to the police! This stems from a man who was going to 
sell them to the highest bidder and obviously got scared!Why couldn't 
it have been me!?

Alex Fox




From pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk  Wed May  7 08:13:10 2003
From: pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk (bluesqueak)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 08:13:10 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <006f01c31439$7b578310$439ccdd1@RVotaw>
Message-ID: <b9af6m+l6n8@eGroups.com>


> Now, for what I'd REALLY like to do.  One of two things.  Move to 
the UK and teach in an all boys school (yes, I'm nuts, would they 
even hire me?).  Or work at the Lego place either creating new 
designs or as a Grand Master Builder (ooh!).  Yep, that's the truth--
my goals in life.
> 
> Richelle
> 

Seriously, Richelle, you should look into teaching in the UK after 
you've finished the fifth year. The major problem is likely to be 
the work permit.

Otherwise, there's a huge shortage of teachers in London (especially 
in IT), because teachers wages are too low to get a London mortgage, 
or pay Inner London rents without flat sharing. As a result, schools 
often hire foreign teachers who want to spend a year or two in 
England. 

There are also several private schools for the children of U.S. 
Expats which follow the U.S. teaching curriculum.

So don't think of it just as a dream. Look into it. It may be more 
possible than you think.

Pip




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed May  7 09:52:34 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 09:52:34 -0000
Subject: Bungay: The Daily Prophet's view
Message-ID: <b9al12+tm23@eGroups.com>

Bungled in Bungay

by our Special Correspondent Rita Skeeter

There were red faces all round at the Ministry of Magic this morning 
as an embarrassed Cornelius Fudge admitted that an operation to 
snatch a copy of the long awaited 'Harry Potter and the Order of the 
Phoenix' by Muggle author JK Rollings had gone badly wrong.

Apparently, an official from the Department of Muggle Affairs 
burgled a Muggle printers in Bungee in Suffolk, in order to fulfill 
a Ministry directive to ensure that 'nothing that would give us away 
to the Muggles' would be published.  As he was leaving with two 
copies on his broomstick, he collided with a 'gellytraph cable' (a 
kind of Muggle fireplace network) and lost one of them in a field, 
where it was found later that day by a Muggle, who will shortly lose 
his memory.

To make matters worse, the official then tried to sell the remaining 
copy to our Muggle so-called rival, The Sun, for a sum amounting to 
several thousand Galleons.  This copy has not yet come to light.  A 
Mr Mundungus Fletcher is being interviewed by officials from the 
Department of Magical Law Enforcement and an announcement is 
expected shortly.

Fudge added 'We really need to get hold of a copy, to see if we need 
to place an Unreadability Charm on all the published copies, to 
prevent Muggles from finding out about us.  It worked on Nancy 
Stouffer, after all.  However, I appeal to the wizarding public to 
remain calm, and not to take the law into their own hands.  I am 
placing a guard over Weasley's Wizard Wheezes as a precaution.'

Another ministry official, Arnold Weatherby, who wished to remain 
anonymous, said, off the record, 'I don't see the point of all this 
cloak and dagger stuff.  The Muggles, bless 'em, just think it's a 
story.  It's amazing what they can convince themselves without any 
help from us.  Why we should get involved, I don't know.'

However, a different view was taken by Mr Lucius Malfoy, a 
distinguished former governer of Hogwarts and a notable benefactor 
of charitable causes: 'This woman is a menace to us all.  If only 
the Ministry would lift their foolish restriction on Unforgivable 
Curses, we could solve this problem once and for all.'

A bystander was heard to say, 'Muggles!  Them!  Don' listen 
properly, do they?  Don' look properly either.  Never notice 
nuffink, they don't.'




From Ripleywriter at aol.com  Wed May  7 10:29:52 2003
From: Ripleywriter at aol.com (Ripleywriter at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 06:29:52 EDT
Subject: Harry Potter Survey #1
Message-ID: <1e9.83266ad.2bea3a20@aol.com>

Hello all, 

   I'm doing a project on Harry Potter and J.K Rowling, and it's finally come 
time for me to survey the fans. I've been waiting for this bit for about a 
month! If a HP survey sounds like fun, please read on. 

  I'm going to send it in pieces because I don't want to overwhelm anybody 
with a big long form. Pick and choose as you wish the questions you'd like to 
answer. I have to spell out a few things in this initial e-mail, and then the 
others will only be questions. Please send all replies to 
ripleywriter at aol.com, unless, of course, you want to discuss something with 
the list. 

  Ok, the jargon. These questions will range from typical (in the interest of 
statistics) to asking your opinion, and so on. I would love and very much 
appreciate any time you give to these questions as I would like to be able to 
give the fans' perspective in my reports; it's really important to me. And 
please remember that there is no limit to how much I'm willing to read, so 
for those of you who love to talk, here's your chance (I hope)! 

  This is a school project, so anything you say--not that I'll be asking 
anything controversial--will not be widely published. ;-) 

  Please copy and paste the entire survey (between the lines) into another 
e-mail and write in your answers beneath each question. Things will go much 
smoother that way.

And here you go:

-----------------------

Basic questions first (for the purposes of saying: "Ann, a 43-year-old doctor 
from Illinois?"):

Your first and/or last name:  
Your general location (for example, Britain or New York): 
Your age or age group: 
Your occupation:

Thank you for your time and I hope you have fun! 

Survey Questions 1-20. 

1. Who is your favorite character, and why? Are there any characters you 
don't enjoy? 

2. What do you hope will happen in the 5th book? 

3. What do think actually *will* happen based on speculation or official 
information you've heard (skip this q if you avoid that type of info)? 

4.  Which, if you had to choose one and only one, is your favorite book: 1, 
2, 3, or 4?

5. Which is your least favorite book of the series, and why?

6.  Of all the covers for all the editions of all the books that you've seen, 
which would you say is your favorite? For example, mine is the American cover 
of the Order of the Phoenix. 

7. Have you pre-ordered or reserved your copy of OotP? How and when did you 
do it? Online? At a local bookstore? What discount, if any, will you receive?

8. Will you be attending a release party for the new book? Who's arranging 
it? Tell me about your plans. 

9. Recent events have brought up an interesting question I'd like to include 
in my article on the 5th book: if you found a 100% official copy of The Order 
of The Phoenix tomorrow that you figured must have been illegally obtained 
and/or lost, what would you do with it? Please be honest. I will: honestly, I 
think I'd read the first chapter before turning it over to the police. 

10. What was your initial reaction to first hearing the official release date 
for the 5th book? How did you find out? And any other related info you can 
think of would be helpful, such as if you were one of the people who rushed 
to pre-order a copy on amazon.com.

11. I've heard several accounts of people planning to purchase more than one 
copy of OotP, such as the American version and one from Britain, etc. Will 
you be buying more than one copy to be able to own more than just the 
available edition in your area? Have you done so with any of the past books?

12. What, if any, Harry Potter related products have you purchased aside from 
the books and/or the movies themselves? 

13. If you own anything like that, what would you say is the craziest product 
you own? Did you go to any crazy lengths to get a product, such as paying far 
too much, trading your car...? ;-)

14.  And what I've been anticipating the fan response of...what are some of 
the strangest/craziest/unbelievable Harry Potter products you've seen or 
heard of released? Did you consider buying any of these products, or did you 
actually purchase any of them?

15. What is your greatest hope for the third HP movie, The Prisoner of 
Azkaban? For example, mine is that the 'iffy' new casting decisions prove all 
the nay-sayers (including me) wrong. And what is your greatest fear? For 
example, some are afraid Sean Biggerstaff's absence will ruin Quidditch. 

16. So, some of us were less than thrilled with the aforementioned casting 
decisions. If it were up to you, how would you otherwise cast Lupin and/or 
Sirius? I've heard Ralph Fiennes mentioned for Lupin, for example. Even if 
you feel repetitive in saying so, any names you've considered would be great 
(even if it's another tally for Fiennes!) 

17. Which PoA casting decisions, if any, are you satisfied or even pleased 
with? 

18. Have you ever convinced a skeptic to read the books? Did they get hooked 
just like you? Any stories surrounding this topic would be terrific! 

19. Another anticipated question of mine: when/why did you pick up a Harry 
Potter book? Were you a fan before or after the movies? Were you a skeptic 
who got converted to reading the books? 

20. If you could ask J.K. Rowling herself one question, what would it be? For 
example, a question that you have not seen or heard her response to before. 

-----------------

And that's it for now. There will be another set of questions sent out within 
the next few days, depending upon the response I receive. That is to say if I 
don't get any I'll consider my efforts ill spent. ;-)

Please let me know, having answered any of the q's, if you would be willing 
to answer more in the next week. 

Thank you again for your time and I hope this was an enjoyable experience for 
you. I hope my questions weren't boring! 

Melly

P.S. These surveys will also be going out to One_Eyed_Witch and 
glassesreflect, so please delete repetitive copies if you get them. I 
apologize for that.



From FairyTalePrincss at aol.com  Wed May  7 13:37:38 2003
From: FairyTalePrincss at aol.com (fairytaleprincss)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 13:37:38 -0000
Subject: OOTP net book copy????????? - - psychic serpent
In-Reply-To: <b999si+qqlr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9b272+srlo@eGroups.com>

yes, barb! ... this must be the story i was given! ... i'm sorry some 
bozo's have taken your work, uploaded it onto the net, and tried to 
pass it off as JKR's OOTP ... if it's any consolation your story was 
fantastic!! ... it had me enthralled for 3 days!! -- i could not stop 
reading it!! ... you should seriously consider publishing your 
works!! ... i'd definitely buy a copy!!! ... thanks for solving the 
mystery for me ... hugs, leslie():-)

--------------
> Well, if there was a psychic garden snake in it named Sandy whom 
> Harry found in the garden on Privet Drive, that was my fic "Harry 
> Potter and the Psychic Serpent."  A slew of alert readers have been 
> telling me that someone (maybe more than one someone?) has uploaded 
> this onto Kazaa sites with the altered title, "Harry Potter and the 
> Order of the Phoenix."  I have not been credited as the author and 
> the folks who contacted me said they did a web search to find out 
> who'd written it.  
> 
> Unfortunately, because of the anonymous nature of Kazaa, I have no 
> way of knowing who's trying to pass off my work in this way.  It is 
> in fact meant for older readers, rather than young kids (I've rated 
> it R), but it was never meant to be a 'sham,' just fanfiction.  
It's 
> archived on numerous fanfiction sites and has two sequels and a 
> prequel.  (My version of Harry's year seven and the prequel are 
> still works in progress.) 
> 
> IMO, it's really not good to upload someone's work without asking 
> their permission.  I wish I had some control over this, but without 
> bothering to download Kazaa software myself, I can't even access 
the 
> file-sharing sites and check to see whether people have posted 
files 
> with all of my formatting and notes. It's a bit frustrating.  The 
> least they could have done is keep my original title and credit me 
> as the author, plus making it clear that it's a fanfiction and that 
> no one (not me, at any rate) is trying to 'fool' people into 
> thinking it's the new book.
> 
> --Barb
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychic_Serpent
> http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb




From alexpie at aol.com  Wed May  7 14:25:01 2003
From: alexpie at aol.com (alexpie at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 10:25:01 EDT
Subject: Love My Job; Hate the Pay 
Message-ID: <110.234112d8.2bea713d@aol.com>

>Cindy -- counting a few teachers, an architect and a minister among 
>the group, but figuring there must be other occupations out there

Ba speaking now: I'm a freelance copy editor of nonfiction, including a great 
many cookbooks (my first love) and sports books (my second).  I work at home 
and make my own hours (which includes working 18 hour days when a crash 
project comes in, and wondering if I'll ever work again when there's no 
manuscript on my desk).  I always wanted to work with words, and truly love 
what I do, but people who work at things they truly love tend to be vastly 
underpaid.
  I have found, on various HP lists, the confusion between a copy editor and 
proofreader, and the theories as to what actually happens to a manuscript 
pretty funny.  Tried to clear it up once or twice, but I have the feeling 
that the reality of it all was too boring for anyone to comment on.
  Cheers,
  Ba, off to work on a staggeringly dull book on Eastern religion



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Wed May  7 15:09:25 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 11:09:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Belated Birthday wishes for Suzanne!
Message-ID: <20030507150925.98638.qmail@web41104.mail.yahoo.com>

*blows up balloons and hangs streamers with sore,
ironed fingers*

Bad Birthday Elf forgot to get yesterday's party
started!

The birthday honouree for yesterday was Suzanne (Rainy
Lilac). Belated birthday owls can be sent care of this
list or directly to: rainy_lilac at yahoo.com

I hope you day was filled with fun and brought
everything you wished for.

Belated Happy Birthday, Suzanne!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf

=====
"We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through the bad times."
 blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From craig.frizzell at marquette.edu  Wed May  7 13:29:01 2003
From: craig.frizzell at marquette.edu (Craig Frizzell)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 08:29:01 -0500
Subject: Jobs
In-Reply-To: <1052311296.2094.19512.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <BADE744D.3B43%craig.frizzell@marquette.edu>

I'm currently finishing up my first year in graduate school, for a Master's
in Political Science.  My research assistant position is rather cushy -
plenty of time to do research/work for class rather than doing "real" work.
I suppose you could ask me in another 5 or 6 years after I get a PhD and am
teaching in a University, but I'm really looking forward to the day.  All
the pleasures of teaching, with a few differences:

1) The people I will be teaching are (mostly) there by choice, and are
taking my courses because of a general interest in the topic, and not
because they're forced to.  Although I've heard that it's nice being able to
call up parents when kids start to slack off, <g>

2) Not only do I get to teach, but the University (and even the government!)
will give me money to conduct research on topics that interest me
(particularly the effects of entertainment media (music, film, television,
literature) on political attitudes... I'm seeing a great research project
down the road on how certain elements of HP (SPEW, for one) affect
children's political beliefs).

The worst thing about the grad student life, as many of you know, is the
damn papers -- which I shall now get back to working on.

Craig




From smotgreg at hotmail.com  Wed May  7 16:04:53 2003
From: smotgreg at hotmail.com (Greg Johnson)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 09:04:53 -0700
Subject: Is this a normal 14?
Message-ID: <Law9-F100HKHT0cWL0W000033f8@hotmail.com>

I had the pleasure of sitting next to a beautiful young woman on my last 
flight to Denver last week. She was so confident and poised, I assumed she 
had to be at least 16 or 17. Imagine my surprise when she stated she was 
turning 14 next week! I listened in amazement as she discussed her trip to 
China last year with her father (a scientist), her schooling (involved in 
the international school program), her love for languages and dance, and her 
volunteering (reading to young children at a shelter). She had the grace at 
the end of our flight to tell me what a lovely conversation we had, and 
introduce herself and hold out her hand for me to shake. I was floored! At 
14, "um" was my main vocabulary, I was so terribly shy I would never think 
of initiating a conversation with a stranger, I had no idea of global, much 
less national issues - a veritable stick in the mud. I realized as I was 
walking down the concourse: that's Hermione! Now I could understand how an 
18 year old Krum could be smitten by such a creature! Meeting this talented, 
poised young woman has put Hermione in a new light for me, as I realized 
that she, too, possesses the inner qualities of this "real" young woman.

As for loving my job, I do. I quit teaching after 10 years to start my own 
family. I would not want to be anywhere else than home with my son. Aside 
from all the daily household going ons (which I don't remember being so time 
consuming when I was teaching!), I get to look at the world in new ways: the 
wonder of a ladybug, of waving, of physical control, of social graces, of 
food. I'm sad that my husband misses our son's many quiet and poignant 
moments of discovery while he's at work. My husband just graduated from grad 
school in interior architecture. He was a graphic artist previous to grad 
school and is one of those rare individuals who get to combine their passion 
with their profession. And no, architects aren't rich, but it does pay more 
than teaching.  Of course, he does wish he had more time to do his art at 
home, but I guess that's what retirement is for. As for me, I get a few more 
years of childhood. I don't know what I want to be when I grow up (or when 
my children do), I have a few ideas, but right now, they're on the back 
burner.

Stacie

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus




From smotgreg at hotmail.com  Wed May  7 16:21:44 2003
From: smotgreg at hotmail.com (Greg Johnson)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 09:21:44 -0700
Subject: a 101 uses for OoP 
Message-ID: <Law9-F10XXc4QzPW8AA00003443@hotmail.com>

41. Anchor or slow down your toddler by placing a copy in his pants.

42. Hit yourself over the head with it, so you are not exactly lying when 
you say, "Not tonight dear, I have a headache."

43. Place a copy on your child's bookshelf to impress visiting friends 
(right between Moo, Baa, La, La, La and Goodnight Moon)

44. Use a copy as an arm rest while nursing.

45. Buy another copy and use it as a foot rest while nursing.

46. Use as a stepping stool for a small child.

47. Place a copy on your child's chest to hold him in place while you change 
his nappy.

48. Smooth out all of the folded corners that you never meant to fold over 
but had to when you put the book down quickly as some small creature got in 
a perilious predictament that needed your attention.

49. Lovingly store it on a bookshelf, dreaming of the day to read the series 
to your children at an age they will appreciate and understand, and plan a 
trip to see the UK and all the movie sites, and then some.

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online  
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963




From selene at earthlink.net  Wed May  7 17:06:55 2003
From: selene at earthlink.net (Susan Fox-Davis)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 10:06:55 -0700
Subject: Terry Pratchett (was: Smell of Cabbage)
Message-ID: <3EB93D2E.A30826EC@earthlink.net>

Abigail:
>> I swear, the man could make a discussion about the digestive
>> system of sheep funny

Amy Z:
>and probably has.

Oh, so you've read THE WEE FREE MEN already?
I got it yesterday, and anyone who got too close for the rest of the day
got snapped at.
Let's just say that "Diseases of Sheep" were a key plot point.

Crivens!
Susan Fox-Davis




From timregan at microsoft.com  Wed May  7 19:34:18 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 19:34:18 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <b96t6v+t6d6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9bn3q+67hv@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

---  "Cindy C." wrote:
> Does *anyone* like their job?  What kind 
> of job is it, and why do you like it?

Mine's great. I do research into how to make the computer a social 
tool, for Microsoft Research. The pay's fine, the people I work with 
are very bright and interesting, I get to try loads of new 
technologies as they emerge, it's at the cusp of logic and 
creativity, and being part of Microsoft there is the potential to 
change the computing experience of shed loads of people for the 
better. Check out some projects at 
http://research.microsoft.com/~timregan/ if you are interested.

That said, there are frustrating moments: I constantly feel I should 
be doing more; choosing a field to research that has academic depth, 
commercial potential, and that looks fun can be a challenge for me; 
and balancing the 24 hours in a day between family, me, and work, is 
completely impossible. An Indian colleague told me recently that he 
sees this life as his sampler, where he dabbles in lots of things. 
Next life he'll choose one to be really expert in ;-)

Cindy, I'm not sure you'll get much out of people's replies since 
the work available to you will depend soooo much on aptitude, 
training, and interest. I did read an interesting book recently that 
might help though. It's called "Flow" by a psychologist called 
(unpronouncably) Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi. He analyses what makes 
people happy (particularly in their work) and tries to tease out the 
traits that lead to their happiness. Why is it some factory workers 
love their job while some rocket scientists hate theirs? His answer 
boils down to repeated achievable challenges. You want to sculpt 
your job to give you tasks that are constantly challenging, but that 
are achievable, and that you know when you've succeeded. It's worth 
a read.

Cheers,

Dumbledad.





From timregan at microsoft.com  Wed May  7 20:09:18 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 20:09:18 -0000
Subject: Authors' moral responsibility (was Re: OOTP net book copy?????????)
In-Reply-To: <b999si+qqlr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9bp5e+ah66@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

--- "psychic_serpent" wrote: 
> someone (maybe more than one someone?) has uploaded 
> this onto Kazaa sites with the altered title, "Harry Potter and 
the 
> Order of the Phoenix."  I have not been credited as the author and 
> the folks who contacted me said they did a web search to find out 
> who'd written it.  


> It is 
> in fact meant for older readers, rather than young kids (I've 
rated 
> it R

Ages ago we had a discussion of slash fanfiction, particularly in 
light of JKR's lawyers trying to close down adult HP slash 
fanfiction sites (at least that's how I remember it). The consensus 
seemed to be that as long as the fiction was correctly marked (e.g. 
rated R or mature) no harm's done. But the incident above shows just 
how easily electronic media can be misappropriated. Clearly the 
baddy in the story is whoever copied psychic_serpent's work onto 
Kazaa without its author or rating intact. 

But in light of this, do fanfic authors have a moral responsibility 
not to use children's book characters in sexual or violent 
situations since they cannot control the distribution of their work?

Cheers,

Dumbledad.





From foxmoth at qnet.com  Wed May  7 22:15:30 2003
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 22:15:30 -0000
Subject: Authors' moral responsibility (was Re: OOTP net book copy?????????)
In-Reply-To: <b9bp5e+ah66@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9c0i2+pvfj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tim Regan" 
<timregan at m...> wrote:

> But in light of this, do fanfic authors have a moral responsibility 
> not to use children's book characters in sexual or violent 
> situations since they cannot control the distribution of their 
work?

Right now, *nobody* can control electronic distribution...ask the 
music industry. Do the labels have a moral obligation to stop 
recording music, since they can't keep the artists from being 
ripped off?

Lots of children's book characters are in the public domain 
anyway. In many such cases, the  original versions are 
nowadays thought too risque, violent or racist for 
children...should these not be available?

IIRC, JKR's lawyers were mostly concerned that precautions 
were in place so that children could not access adult content, not 
with forbidding the content itself. 

Pippin   




From heidit at netbox.com  Wed May  7 22:57:30 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 18:57:30 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Authors' moral responsibility (was Re: OOTP net book copy?????????)
Message-ID: <mailman.43.1576049046.5361.hpfgu-otchatter@archive.hpfgu.org>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tim Regan" 
<timregan at m...> wrote:

> But in light of this, do fanfic authors have a moral responsibility 
> not to use children's book characters in sexual or violent 
> situations since they cannot control the distribution of their 
work?

And Pippin wrote a bit about the issues of electronic distribution, which I agree with. 

We have tried, on FA, to make fics unsaveable, un-cut-and-pasteable and unsendable. There is no cost-effective way to do all of this - even pdfs can be cut and pasted. 

Or printed and retyped. 

But more than that, what these people - children and adults - are doing by engaging in file sharing is basically akin to saying that they have the intent to engage in copyright infringement of jkr's work. What they are doing is illegal, and part of me feels that they are making a major assumption of risk - yes, even if they are eight years old. 

I'm a little stringent on copyright issues - my 3 year old knows to cheer the fbi warning on videos, and that copying videos for other people is Wrong. Why aren't parents teaching their kids not to download files that they don't know the contents of? 

A file on kazaa could be a virus. It could contain the Kama Sutra. Or even just articles from Playboy. 

I don't think that a fanfic author has any moral responsibility to protect lawbreakers from what they might see if they break the law. A fanfic author does have a responsibility to put appropriate warnings on his or her fic, I certainly think, but...

When downloading pirated works is outlawed, only outlaws will download pirated works. 

Oh, wait -  it is outlawed...

Heidi, who actually pays for legal downloads and only used kazaa once - when Joss Whedon said people should use kazaa to get the songs from the Buffy musical - hey, he's the creator - he can give permission and stuff 



From coriolan at worldnet.att.net  Thu May  8 03:39:25 2003
From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 03:39:25 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <b9a47h+n6lr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9cjhd+ouvu@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "benevolntgoddess1" 
<SlightlyCashews at a...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, At 11:47 PM +0000 5/5/03, 
> Cindy C. wrote:
> >Hey,
> >
> >I've been contemplating getting back into the job market one of
> >these days, hopefully not too soon, mind. And every time I think
> >about it, it depresses me. Does *anyone* like their job? What kind
> >of job is it, and why do you like it?
> 

Getting paid for something you love to do is the surest formula for 
happiness (What was it JOe Campbell said: "Follow your bliss") I've 
worked for almost 20 years with developmentally disabled children and 
adults, and I love my line of work. Until three years ago, I usually 
couldn't wait to get to the office in the morning. 

What changed three years ago? I went into - gaaah! - management! when 
you do that, the focus is longer on whether we're using the best 
communication system for 11-year Tommy, or what's causing 15-year-old 
Tiffany to become aggressive every day before class - it becomes that 
27-year-old Shannon is taking too long on her lunch break, and 31-
year-old Michelle is saying nasty things behind 39-year-old Mike's 
back, so he wants me to stop her - blah blah blah. Meanwhile, 
seemingly nothing gets done with the kids, because (like Percy 
Weasley after the QWC debacle) you're always putting out fires (and 
realistically, things are still getting done, but you just don't get 
the same sense of satisfaction out of it).

Still, it's been an interesting experience, and I don't regret trying 
it, though I've found it's not for me long-term. I've just started 
looking for another non-management position, and I hope to recapture 
my original enthusiasm.

  - CMC (who sometimes wonders how his staff would react if they knew 
their boss maintained a Harry Potter website) 




From SlightlyCashews at aol.com  Thu May  8 05:12:36 2003
From: SlightlyCashews at aol.com (benevolntgoddess1)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 05:12:36 -0000
Subject: Authors' moral responsibility (was Re: OOTP net book copy?????????)
In-Reply-To: <b9bp5e+ah66@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9cp04+k7mh@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tim Regan" 
<timregan at m...> wrote:

> But in light of this, do fanfic authors have a moral responsibility 
> not to use children's book characters in sexual or violent 
> situations since they cannot control the distribution of their 
work?

On morals in the writing:
It's fun and we get to play a puppet show with the people dancing in 
our heads. But- FanFic authors are in a bit of a bind and the very 
existence of it is a moral conundrum. Writing the fic is illegal, 
immoral and violates more copyright laws and anti-theft ethos than I 
actually know the citations to. Period. *sighs*

That being said, I'm in the process of writing my own novel length 
fanfic right now and have been doing so with full knowledge of the 
complete illegality of it. So there. I put my adult characters in the 
hottest, steamiest, rather violent and incredibly depressing 
situations I can think of. I enjoy Padfoot torture just as much as I 
enjoy my Mary Sues. 

Morals of the posting:
I'm also the owner of a rather large erotica site When I first opened 
the site, I was absolutely against posting fanfic because of the 
possible legal problems associated with using someone else's 
characters. It was only until I read the decision concerning Larry 
Flint's cartoon of Jerry Falwell that I changed my mind 
(http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/comm/free_speech/hustler.html )Now, 
if I post fanfic, I do so with a very large disclaimer of my own, 
explaining what fanfic and slash fic are and why I think it's okay to 
post it. 

As an adult website owner, I have a nice big statement on the front 
page, that everyone who enters must click through, stating that they 
are 18 years of age. If someone is not, I have a couple great links 
for curious teens to go to. That way, my conscience stays clear of 
kids getting into my site. If a child does click through, then I must 
ask ? where are the kid's parents and why aren't they supervising web 
time? As a parent, I certainly do ? that is my moral responsibility. 

 All I can do, to prevent outright theft of a work that someone posts 
with me is to ask people, very nicely, not to. The only other option 
is not post at all. Every author, when posting something, anywhere, 
anytime is at risk of plagiarism or derivative infringement. The web 
just makes it easier. It is simply impossible to completely protect a 
published work, on or off the web ? I've tried on my site ? it isn't 
possible.  As authors and as archive owners we must exercise (please 
forgive me) "Constant Vigilance!" by reading what is out there and 
writing in clear rules for the posting of our fiction and the 
distribution thereof into the document. Unfortunately, if someone is 
going to be a jerk and copy work from a reputable author and archive ?
 there just isn't much we can do, other than ask them nicely to take 
it down.

A big problem for an archive owner is when a copyright problem comes 
up. I've had it happen to me and it drives me batty. It means that I 
have to look at or read two works, comparing down the line and 
somehow get indisputable proof from the "original creator" that they 
own it, not the other way around. It's almost impossible to do. The 
only thing that I can and will do in that situation is just yank the 
entire thing. Morals or not wanting to hassle with it? Yes. 

For an author's own protection, I will say ? if someone takes your 
stuff, write to the person. If you don't get the response you want, 
write to the site owner/webmaster. Generally the piece will come down 
because the owner doesn't want to deal with it. If it doesn't, write 
to the ISP, citing their own TOS and give a specific URL to look at 
and another to compare with. ISP's are very twitchy about such 
things. Thy, above all, have the most to lose in a lawsuit so they 
will be the quickest to respond. Most often, they will trash the 
entire site the work is on, so you'll have to consider the 
ramifications of that, too. 

After all that babble, the only answer is that each author has to 
make up his or her own mind about how it is to be published, 
distributed and what out-of-court (if they take it to court, then 
they have to deal with JKR's copyright) means they will go to if 
something is stolen. [/blabber]

psychic serpent ? Barb, 
First, I'm so sorry that this happened to you! I hope the Karma 
Goddess gives the jerk venereal warts and webbed fingers.

As a former Kazaa user (Kazaa is evil), the options seem to be that 
you can write to Kazaa and expect nothing to happen. According to 
their EULA and FAQ, they care about copyright but aren't going to 
remove anything. However, you (or someone else) could upload your 
story, with proper title and author listed, with a note attached 
saying that this is the actual story and information on it, and the 
OoP listed is, in fact a fake and was stolen from you. 

BG




From olivierfouquet2000 at yahoo.fr  Thu May  8 08:23:05 2003
From: olivierfouquet2000 at yahoo.fr (olivierfouquet2000)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 08:23:05 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <b96t6v+t6d6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9d459+nmo1@eGroups.com>

Does *anyone* like their job?  What kind 
> of job is it, and why do you like it?

> 
> Cindy

Hi Cindy,

I honestly love my job to the point that I sometimes wake up at 5:30 in order to be at 
7:00 at my office. I enjoy it because it is intellectually stimulating, completly free in 
term of office hour and way of working, and a great team experience. Alas, my 
profession is mathematician so I am afraid it can not really be a source of inspiration 
for you (except if you have an extensive training in math). 

I have also worked in a caring team for mentally disabled person (severely mentally 
disabled) for a time and really enjoyed it though it was quite tiring and a little 
depressing at 
time.

Good luck, Olivier




From hp at plum.cream.org  Thu May  8 09:09:16 2003
From: hp at plum.cream.org (GulPlum)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 10:09:16 +0100
Subject: Kazaa (was moral responsibility...)
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20030508095456.00970100@plum.cream.org>

I just thought I'd clear up one thing which seems to have been glossed over 
or misunderstood.

The whole point of Kazaa (and similar) is that there is NO central server, 
no central responsible party with whom one can take issue. The technical 
possibilities of these things is undisputed, and I have used Kazaa only 
once to great effect when swapping (original) material on my hard drive 
with someone 2,000 miles away (considering we were swapping over 2GB of 
data in each direction, uploading it somewhere for the other party to 
download it and upload their own files was out of the question).

However, it is a nightmare for owners of copyrighted works, because nobody 
has control over who has what and what they do with it. There is nobody to 
complain to, and nobody is in a position to enforce any kind of rule of 
law. Not technically, because the users are sharing data directly with each 
other, using the Internet as nothing more than a glorified LAN. And not 
legally, because all the Kazaa or other folk do is make the program 
available. Unlike, say, the infamous Napster, which maintained servers 
which made available records of who had what files from one moment to the 
next, Kazaa maintain no servers or records.

The program itself is perfectly legal, and although its authors are 
perfectly aware that it is almost exclusively used for sharing illegal 
files (mainly MP3s, movies and of course porn of one type or another), it 
has valid other uses, as per my own experience for instance. So unlike 
Napster, which was designed from the ground up to share MP3s, there's 
little anyone can do against Kazaa or its users.




From Ali at zymurgy.org  Thu May  8 10:24:24 2003
From: Ali at zymurgy.org (Ali)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 10:24:24 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <b99n8n+b5tu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9db8o+r7mo@eGroups.com>

Cindy wrote:
 
<<< You know what the problem is, don't you?  
 
 I don't know what I want to be when I grow up, that's the 
 problem.  ;-)
<snip>
  
 Eh.  Maybe I'll just hide for a few more years.  I don't know how 
to actually *do* anything other than law, after all.  ;-)
 
 Cindy -- counting a few teachers, an architect and a minister among 
 the group, but figuring there must be other occupations out there>>>

Ouch, can I relate to this! I started off wanting to be a Lawyer, 
and I dutifully went and did my Law degree at University - which I 
hated, because at that stage in my life, I didn't want to do any 
work. I went travelling instead of taking up my place at Law School, 
and then went off to become a Bank Manager. I never intended to 
stay, and it was never really "me". I thought it would be good 
experience, and it took me 10 years and 2 kids to finally leave.

Since then, I've spent the last 2 years studying for a professional 
HR qualification, only to decide earlier in the year that I didn't 
think I wanted to do it anymore. My tutor persuaded me to stay on, 
and I took the exams this week, only to stage a total inability to 
think. 

For the past few months, I've been thinking about training to be a 
teacher (!), as in Britain they are desperate and actually pay you 
to take the 1 year course. This would give me the "Work-Life 
balance" that I want as I would at least have the holidays with my 
kids. For some time though, I have hankered after returning to Law. 
It's just the huge cost of it, that makes it a no-no for me. So 
Cindy, consider whether you do still like the Law before you decide 
not to go back to it.

Well, here I am, 34 still lacking real direction and very envious of 
those who have found it. Apparently Confucius once said something 
along the lines off when you find a job you love, you stop working. 
I want some of that!!

Ali




From heidit at netbox.com  Thu May  8 10:58:14 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (heidi tandy)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 03:58:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Authors' moral responsibility (was Re: OOTP net book copy?????????)
In-Reply-To: <b9cp04+k7mh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030508105814.13480.qmail@web80502.mail.yahoo.com>


--- benevolntgoddess1 <SlightlyCashews at aol.com> wrote:
> Real-To:  "benevolntgoddess1"
> <SlightlyCashews at aol.com>
> 
> On morals in the writing:
> It's fun and we get to play a puppet show with the
> people dancing in 
> our heads. But- FanFic authors are in a bit of a
> bind and the very 
> existence of it is a moral conundrum. Writing the
> fic is illegal, 
> immoral and violates more copyright laws and
> anti-theft ethos than I 
> actually know the citations to. Period. *sighs*

No, it does not. It does not violate any copyright
laws or anti-theft laws to write fanfic, and in the
opinion of various legal scholars, it doesn't violate
any copyright laws or anti-theft laws to upload fanfic
to the internet, as long as it's noncommercial. If
it's commercial, it still might not violate any
copyright laws if it's for parody purposes (I'm citing
to the 2 Live Crew Supreme Court ruling here) or for
commentary and/or ciriticism. 

I'll be presenting at Nimbus - 2003
(http://www.hp2003.org) with Rebecca Tushnet, who's a
professor at NYU, on this exact issue (among others),
but if you want a solid overview on the implications
of copyright law on fanfic, you might want to read her
LiveJournal at
http://www.livejournal.com/users/rivkat/9344.html or
her full article (which is a bit out of date, but the
caselaw has actually expanded the protections for
fanfic, thanks to things like The Wind Done Gone)
here: http://www.tushnet.com/law/fanficarticle.html. 

I hope the above citations make you a little more
relaxed about your concerns about copyright
infringement. 

heidi, not giving any actual legal advice in this post



From foxmoth at qnet.com  Thu May  8 15:38:07 2003
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 15:38:07 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <b9cjhd+ouvu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9dtkv+s6q0@eGroups.com>

I'm in management, mostly real estate, but, since it's a family 
business, other things too, and I, er, like it.  It's like a jigsaw 
puzzle: you've got people, projects, time and money, and you try 
to put them together so the people develop their potential, the 
projects get done on time, and there's money for everybody. 

Pippin






From punkieshazam at yahoo.com  Thu May  8 17:11:20 2003
From: punkieshazam at yahoo.com (punkieshazam)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 17:11:20 -0000
Subject: Atwood
Message-ID: <b9e33o+eb9v@eGroups.com>

Last Tuesday, May 5th, Margaret Atwood's new book *Oryx and Crake* 
was released in the US. Do not hesitate. Go. Now. Buy it. It has 
eased the pain of the wait for Potter 5 considerably. Now excuse me 
while I go and read it again.

Punkie

Petunia is a Squib!




From punkieshazam at yahoo.com  Thu May  8 17:37:24 2003
From: punkieshazam at yahoo.com (punkieshazam)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 17:37:24 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <b99n8n+b5tu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9e4kk+1o71@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." <cindysphinx at c...> 
wrote:
> Joywitch:
> 
> > Cindy, I wonder if you're not feeling the same thing I am.  I 
know 
> > you also do PT consulting work that you're not too stimulated by, 
> >and maybe your kids are getting old enough that they don't need a 
> >FT Mom anymore?  Maybe a job that gave you that sense of purpose, 
> >even if it didn't pay all that well, and even if it wasn't in your 
> >field, or wasn't exactly in your field, would be better than a 
well-
> >paying job?
> 
> Ugh.
> 
> You know what the problem is, don't you?  
> 
> I don't know what I want to be when I grow up, that's the 
> problem.  ;-)

That is the problem for me also. I am 67 and retired. Long ago I 
dedided that I just wasn't going to grow up at all. It has worked for 
me so far. I have a degree in Economics and Urban Studies from the 
University of Colorado at Denver. A few years ago, I decided to take 
a few brush up hours and when I went into the registrar's office I 
discovered that my major code is still *undecided.*

Just wanted to gove you something to aspire to.

Punkie

Petunia is a Squib!






From erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com  Thu May  8 18:17:33 2003
From: erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com (erisedstraeh2002)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 18:17:33 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <b99n8n+b5tu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9e6vt+tg44@eGroups.com>

Cindy wrote:

> I've been contemplating getting back into the job market one of 
> these days, hopefully not too soon, mind. And every time I think 
> about it, it depresses me. Does *anyone* like their job? What kind 
> of job is it, and why do you like it?

Now me:

There's a great book by Richard Nelson Bolles entitled "What Color is 
Your Parachute?" that I would highly recommend.  In an entertaining 
and fun way, he helps you sort out what job is right for you, then 
helps you figure out how to secure that job.  

The book is all about matching up your interests and skills with the 
right job for you - because the kind of job that makes one person 
happy may make another miserable.

Cindy again:

> I want to be a world-famous author of a blockbuster series of 
> children's books, and then I'd live in my mansion in Sco--

> What? What are you laughing at?

Me again:

I am laughing, but not at you ? I'm laughing at myself, for wishing 
the same thing but not having your courage to admit it publicly!

But as Amy said so well, we're blessed to be able to read the 
series.  Just think ? JKR knows exactly what's going to happen and 
how it's all going to end.  She didn't get the pleasure of finding 
out that Scabbers was more than a rat, that Snape was once a DE or 
that Moody was really polyjuiced Crouch Jr.  We get to experience 
these wonderful twists without being sued (or having to sue others), 
stalked or endlessly pursued by the media.  I'll bet JKR would be 
willing to trade some of her riches for a bit of privacy and peace.

~Phyllis
who should take her own advice and re-read "Parachute"




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Thu May  8 20:19:24 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 20:19:24 -0000
Subject: Do You Guys Like Your Jobs?  Really?  Come On, Be Honest.
In-Reply-To: <b9e6vt+tg44@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9ee4c+ep6i@eGroups.com>

Phyllis wrote:

> There's a great book by Richard Nelson Bolles entitled "What Color 
is 
> Your Parachute?" that I would highly recommend. 

I was going to recommend this book but was afraid to for some 
reason.  Now that Phyllis has been brave, I'll second it.  Great book.

> Just think ? JKR knows exactly what's going to happen and 
> how it's all going to end.  She didn't get the pleasure of finding 
> out that Scabbers was more than a rat, that Snape was once a DE or 
> that Moody was really polyjuiced Crouch Jr.  

Actually, I guess she did.  At some point each of those ideas popped 
into her head and must've given her a thrill.  She says herself that 
writing is the most fun thing in the world.  I think she's crazy, but 
I'm glad she's enjoying herself.  Me, I'll just enjoy spending my $25 
and reading whatever she's got to throw at us.

44 days to go,
Amy




From Zugzwang_0 at hotmail.com  Thu May  8 20:47:36 2003
From: Zugzwang_0 at hotmail.com (ecceq)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 20:47:36 -0000
Subject: (moved from [HPforGrownups]) Re: Oop copies found
In-Reply-To: <00c401c3142b$96496ed0$1ba1cdd1@RVotaw>
Message-ID: <b9efp8+gilt@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Richelle Votaw" 
<rvotaw at i...> wrote:
> Meliss9900 wrote:
> 
> > I find it curious that this man's first impluse was to call the 
Sun not the 
> > police. He knew it was important otherwise he wouldn''t have 
called them.
> 
> I'm moving this over to chatter, since my reply really isn't 
relevant to the book.  Anyway, I'm trying to think what I would do if 
I'd find a copy of OotP lying in a field.  Truth be told, I'd 
probably run straight home, lock all the doors and cover the windows, 
hide in my bedroom and read it cover to cover.  But if one is intent 
on turning it in, wouldn't it be logical to call either the police or 
Bloomsbury?
> 
> Richelle

I'd probably read it too ... but if I was trying to get into the mind 
of some who doesn't enjoy HP for a moment - I'd say that since the 
police weren't offering a reward and since Bloomsbury has already 
paid someone else for OoP, the Sun (ahem) 'newspaper' was probably a 
good place to take it to make an easy unearned penny or two.

EcceQ - who doesn't understand none HP fans at all.




From Chasewildstar at attbi.com  Thu May  8 22:12:42 2003
From: Chasewildstar at attbi.com (Chase Wildstar)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 18:12:42 -0400
Subject: another reason 
Message-ID: <00dc01c315ae$f27a25d0$9c01f50c@mac>

My gowd, I rejoined the HP4GU main group for a week. Posted one reply, got
the typical "your message does not conform" BullS__T responce, and then got
so mad I dropped the group..

BUT, Now all of a sudden, I'm getting TONS of spam. I think spammers are
using the main group for spam lists. I didn't have this spam problem untill
I joined the main group.





From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu May  8 23:51:48 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 23:51:48 -0000
Subject: Effectiveness of terrorism
Message-ID: <b9eqik+7r0d@eGroups.com>

Barb wrote, on the main list:

>Nothing is a justification of violence or terrorism, and in fact, 
it is likely to damage the reputation of the movement and make it 
less likely that change will occur in the near future, as sympathy 
is more likely to lie with the victim(s) of the violence. It is self-
defeating.

It would be nice to think this was true, but I think sometimes 
violent acts can be effective in bringing about change.  That 
doesn't justify them, but it may go some way to explaining why they 
still happen.

Part of the reason we don't perceive this is that successful 
terrorists usually lose that label, being known instead 
as 'respected elder statesmen'.  Naming names would start a flamewar 
so I will refrain, but there are plenty around.

David




From kelleythompson at gbronline.com  Fri May  9 00:13:23 2003
From: kelleythompson at gbronline.com (Kelley)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 00:13:23 -0000
Subject: another reason / loads of spam
In-Reply-To: <00dc01c315ae$f27a25d0$9c01f50c@mac>
Message-ID: <b9err3+uk10@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Chase Wildstar" 
<Chasewildstar at a...> wrote:
> My gowd, I rejoined the HP4GU main group for a week. Posted one 
reply, got the typical "your message does not conform" BullS__T 
responce, and then got so mad I dropped the group..
> 
> BUT, Now all of a sudden, I'm getting TONS of spam. I think 
spammers are using the main group for spam lists. I didn't have this 
spam problem untill I joined the main group. >>>>>>>

Mac, check your "marketing preferences" on your account:

Click on "Account Info" at the top right of a group page, give your 
password, then when you see your account scroll down to the email 
address info.  Click on "Edit your marketing preferences." 

On the page that comes up, make sure everything is checked "No", and 
at the bottom of that page and under US Mail and Telephone, make sure 
both boxes are checked.

This *should* cure your spam problem.

--Kelley




From Chasewildstar at attbi.com  Fri May  9 00:39:44 2003
From: Chasewildstar at attbi.com (Chase Wildstar)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 20:39:44 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: another reason / loads of spam
References: <b9err3+uk10@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c315c3$7cb99910$9c01f50c@mac>

already did that 3 weeks ago..
And I checked it yesterday too..
Same thing, everything is checked NO.
So Its gotta be a spammer using the main group as a place to glean Email
addys from.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kelley" <kelleythompson at gbronline.com>
To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 8:13 PM
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: another reason / loads of spam


> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Chase Wildstar"
> <Chasewildstar at a...> wrote:
> > My gowd, I rejoined the HP4GU main group for a week. Posted one
> reply, got the typical "your message does not conform" BullS__T
> responce, and then got so mad I dropped the group..
> >
> > BUT, Now all of a sudden, I'm getting TONS of spam. I think
> spammers are using the main group for spam lists. I didn't have this
> spam problem untill I joined the main group. >>>>>>>
>
> Mac, check your "marketing preferences" on your account:
>
> Click on "Account Info" at the top right of a group page, give your
> password, then when you see your account scroll down to the email
> address info.  Click on "Edit your marketing preferences."
>
> On the page that comes up, make sure everything is checked "No", and
> at the bottom of that page and under US Mail and Telephone, make sure
> both boxes are checked.
>
> This *should* cure your spam problem.
>
> --Kelley
>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material
from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- 
MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
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>
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>
>
>




From Ripleywriter at aol.com  Fri May  9 01:23:31 2003
From: Ripleywriter at aol.com (Ripleywriter at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 21:23:31 EDT
Subject: Harry Potter Survey #2
Message-ID: <193.19fb6864.2bec5d13@aol.com>

(can I ask that all your replies be sent to me offlist, at 
ripleywriter at aol.com? Thanks!)

Hey again,

  Wow! You guys are incredible! I got an overwhelming response to the first 
part of my survey. And if you wanted to fill out the first part but haven't 
yet, you still can. ;-)

  I haven't even been able to read everyone's replies yet (there were A LOT), 
so I haven't been able to write back to everyone. I'd like to, to say thanks 
and comment on what some of you had to say. I was surprised by a lot of your 
answers. For now: thank you! And especially those of you who commented you 
had fun. I'm very glad; I tried hard not to be boring.

 If you could reply the way you did last time, copying and pasting the q's 
between the lines into another e-mail and writing your answers below each 
one, that'd be great. This one's a little bit longer, so answer at your 
leisure. :-)

J/i/c you don't know: 
SS/PS = Sorcerer's Stone/Philosopher's Stone
CoS = Chamber of Secrets

If you have not seen either HP movie please skip all movie-related questions.

------------

Question-as-an-afterthought: Have you not seen either movie? If so, why not?

Survey Questions 21-43.

21. What was your initial reaction to the movie(s)? If you saw one or both of 
them before you read the books, how much of an influence have they had on 
your reading? If you saw one or both of them after having read one or more of 
the books, tell me all about what you thought of them. Did they live up to 
your expectations? Were you pleased with the casting? And so on. 

22. Which character in the movies do you believe to be the best cast? 

23. Which movie do you prefer over the other, SS/PS or CoS, and why?

24. Which part (be it a character, a specific scene, a subplot, etc.) of 
SS/PS and/or CoS were you most disappointed had not made it into the movie?

25. Do you remember the most outrageous rumor you heard about any of the 
earlier books before they were released? For example, not *that* crazy, but I 
read in more than one article and GoF was supposed to be called "Harry Potter 
and the Doomspell Tournament." 

26.  Have you read/do you own the HP textbooks written by J.K. Rowling? These 
would be 'Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them' and 'Quidditch Through the 
Ages'. If so, what did you think of them? 

27.  What is the most interesting piece of information you've heard about 
J.K.? For example, her reading GoF to a dying girl is quite fascinating to 
me. 

28.  What crazy or not so crazy (but the crazier the better) influences have 
you heard of Harry Potter having on the world? For example, I read an article 
about the rise in enrollment in British boarding schools thanks to Harry, and 
not so crazy, the New York Times created the best-selling children's books 
list because of Harry.

29. What is your estimate of how many people in the entire world you think 
have read *all four* Harry Potter books (making them a fan, you see)? This 
can't be calculated by the number of books sold because of lending, 
libraries, etc. So give me your best guess! I'll be creating an average from 
everyone's guesses, so give it a minute of thought. I would guess...300 
million. I don't know if I'm overestimating or under, so I am very curious 
about what you all will say. 

30.  Have you ever attended or had a child attend, etc., a class that studies 
the HP books or any aspects of them? What was/have you heard it's like?

31. Is there any movie coming out in the near (such as the Matrix sequels) or 
distant (such as the third ep of Star Wars in '05) future that you think 
could challenge the Harry Potter movies in their places on the lists of 
highest grossing movies ever? 

32. What would you *eloquently* (no bad language, please *g*) say to someone 
who believed the Harry Potter books are a threat to children for any reason 
(and please state the reason) you've heard them called a danger in the past? 
For example, Jack Brock, mentioned below, said the books, "encourage our 
youth to learn more about witches, warlocks, and sorcerers, and those things 
are an abomination to God and to me". 

33. What would you say specifically to people like the pastor who burned a 
pile of HP books, saying, "This is a holy fire."? His name was Jack Brock 
from New Mexico.

34. Do you run/help run a Harry Potter web site? If so, can you please 
provide me with the name(s) and address(es)? 

35.  Do you write Harry Potter fanfiction? If you have, can you please 
provide me with the title of the one you are most proud of, that way I can 
write: "Leela Thompson, author of 'The Poison Party'...." 


If you have *not* read *any* fanfiction, please skip to #41. 
(Please forgive me if #'s 37 & 38 are hard to understand at all; I tried to 
form the q's for everyone)

36. In your own opinion, why would you say Harry Potter fanfiction is so 
popular? Please be as eloquent as you can because this is one of the 
questions I need the most direct quotes for. 

37. How long have you been reading fanfiction, not just HP?

But if you started reading fanfiction because of Harry Potter, and had never 
read any before, then please tell me:
why you sought it out? 
what your first experience with it was like? 

38. About how many HP fanfictions would you say you've read? 

And how long have you been reading HP fanfiction? For those who *have* read 
any fanfic *before* HP fanfic specifically, why did you seek out HP 
fanfiction? <--I know why, but I'm looking for answers like: "I wanted to 
read more about Snape's days before he was a Hogwarts professor." 

40.  -- Please skip this q if you're going to write "Because he's hot!!" 
Obviously that's not worth quoting ;-) -- 
In your own words (I say that because I generally know why, but I'm looking 
for quotes):
Why do you think Draco is such a popular subject in fanfiction?
...and why Severus Snape? 

41. How many times have you read each of the books (please do not emphasize, 
like saying '1000!!!'):
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer' Stone/Philosopher's Stone?
...and the Chamber of Secrets?
...and the Prisoner of Azkaban?
...and the Goblet of Fire?

42. How many times have you seen the movies:
SS/PS: 
in the theaters? 
at home?
CoS:
in the theaters?
at home? 

43. Do you think the books, hardback and/or paperback, are quality made? For 
example, I've had people tell me their copies have come apart. Please tell me 
what editions (American hardback, German paperback, etc.) you own in addition 
to your answer, so I can refer to each specifically. 

----------

Whew. This survey stuff wears me out, man. Lots of work, but fun work. So, 
all of your efforts to respond really are appreciated, if I didn't make that 
clear, lol. It's so nice to know I'm not killing myself for nothing. 

Looking forward to another batch of replies!

Melly







 





From anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net  Fri May  9 02:34:38 2003
From: anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net (Anne)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 02:34:38 -0000
Subject: Splinched?
Message-ID: <b9f43u+q317@eGroups.com>

I've been sort of in semi-hiding lately... kind of got lost on the 
main list and gave up trying to keep up with it... will try again 
after June 21st <vbg>... but wanted to ask ya'll something. Is the 
term "splinch" or "splinched" common in literature related to the 
wizarding world?? I am re-reading GoF right now and when I came to 
the chapter about the portkey, the Weasleys were talking about not 
wanting to get splinched, and I realized I had read the word in only 
one other book, "Deep Secret" by Diana Wynne Jones, which also 
happens to be about about witches and wizards (adults) in late 20th-
century Britain. Anyway... anyone have any comments on this? Any idea 
if JKR read Deep Secret? I believe it was published in 1995, so I 
suppose it's possible...

Anne U
(having tons o' fun reading fan fic ...Paradise Lost ch. 8 is next 
for me <~~~waves to Ebony>)





From bboy_mn at yahoo.com  Fri May  9 05:46:13 2003
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 05:46:13 -0000
Subject: another reason / loads of spam
In-Reply-To: <000f01c315c3$7cb99910$9c01f50c@mac>
Message-ID: <b9ffb5+g2ks@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Chase Wildstar"
<Chasewildstar at a...> wrote:
> already did that 3 weeks ago..
> And I checked it yesterday too..
> Same thing, everything is checked NO.
> So Its gotta be a spammer using the main group as a place to glean Email
> addys from.
> 

> 
> 
> > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Chase Wildstar"
> > <Chasewildstar at a...> wrote:
> > > My gowd, I rejoined the HP4GU main group for a week. Posted one
> > reply, got the typical "your message does not conform" BullS__T
> > responce, and then got so mad I dropped the group..
> > >
> > > BUT, Now all of a sudden, I'm getting TONS of spam. I think
> > spammers are using the main group for spam lists. I didn't have
> > this spam problem untill I joined the main group. >>>>>>>
> >

bboy_mn:
Yahoo takes precautions to prevent their groups from being data mined
for email addresses. 

At the top of an active post or anyplace in the group where an email
address might appear, you will notive that email addresses stop one
character after the '@' sign. For example: bboy_mn at y.... Although, not
all people use Yahoo addresses for their primary reply address.


Of course, we all know the @y... is @ yahoo.com, but it doesn't show
on the page. If you put your mouse pointer on an email address, and
look at the status line, you don't see the actual address. You see a
code number that Yahoo uses to extract the actual email address from
it's database. Here is an example of what on looks like-

http:// ...edited...
/HPFGU-OTChatter/post?protectID=197075234163082198090199175252147223136158196219183121152006048067

If you are reading and posting to the group by email instead of coming
to that actual Yahoo group webpage, then you email address may have
been intercepted along the way.

bboy_mn






From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri May  9 12:01:04 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 12:01:04 -0000
Subject: Bungay latest
Message-ID: <b9g5a0+c98e@eGroups.com>

See

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts/3012759.stm

and

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/jdoerestrain.html

I wonder what is meant by the wording "*partial* copies of Harry 
Potter and the Order of the Phoenix was allegedly found in a field" 
(my emphasis)?  Does that mean that the page pictured in The Sun 
(which I haven't seen) may not in fact be the last page of the book?

As for the restraining order, it just gets better and better.  I 
thought all the razzmatazz surrounding GOF release was over the top 
and that OOP might be something of an anti-climax: far from it.  Not 
only do copies turn up in a field (treatment usually reserved in the 
UK for official secrets), and 'shifty-sounding' individuals try to 
sell bootleg copies to the papers, but now we have legal history 
being made by the first mention of 'John Doe' in 150 years.  The 
similarity to Dumbledore's age is too good to be coincidence - 
anyone with any suitable conspiracy theories?  Pip?

It's hard to see where we can go from here, but I now have every 
confidence that truth will go on being stranger than fiction.

David, wondering if Hogwarts lawyers (Malfoy, Malfoy, and Malfoy and 
Son & Avery) will injunct 'Mary Sue' against self-insertion into the 
school




From pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk  Fri May  9 13:53:09 2003
From: pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk (bluesqueak)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 13:53:09 -0000
Subject: Bungay latest - the Daily Prophet speaks!
In-Reply-To: <b9g5a0+c98e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9gbs5+qvpn@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "David" <dfrankiswork at n...> 
wrote:
<Snip>
> anyone with any suitable conspiracy theories?  Pip?

:::Pip sticks her head up::: 

Did someone say the word 'conspiracy'?

*********************************************************************
Further revelations from the Daily Prophet

Burgled in Bungay; muggles found acting with MoM

By our special correspondent Rita Skeeter

Further shocking revelations have been discovered by your special 
correspondent. It now appears that the unnamed Ministry official who 
burgled a Muggle printers in Bungee in Suffolk, did not act alone.

Shockingly, it is alleged that he enlisted the help of Muggles to 
get the copies out of the printers.

"I didn't have any choice." he said. "That obsolete old dingbat 
Albus Dumbledore (hopefully the soon-to-be-former), headmaster of 
Hogwarts, placed an anti-Apparation charm on the building. I kept 
splinching myself whenever I tried to get inside."

When asked to account for this ridiculous protection of a muggle 
building, Dumbledore said to your reporter "I really don't see why 
the Ministry has any business with a story that the Muggles all 
believe is fictional. Would you like a cockroach cluster?"

In an amazing display of Ministry incompetence, the alleged 
accomplices tried to keep a copy for themselves, leading to the 
Ministry official flying off with only a part copy. In a further 
display of spectacular bungling, he then flew into a gellytraph [see 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/15105 ]

The official, who can now be revealed as Mr John Doe (of the famous 
Doe wizarding family), insists `I did not try to sell it to the Sun! 
Or the Mirror! Or even the Daily Mail! What would I want with a 50% 
split of ?200 000! Even if the goblins at Gringotts did tell me they 
wouldn't ask any questions about where I got the money from!"

When asked to comment on this, a spokesgoblin for Gringotts 
replied "Keep your long nose out of here, Skeeter. Unless you want 
to discover what muggle flyspray can do."

Minister for Magic Cornelius Fudge, in an explanation that showed 
him completely incapable of handling a crisis by himself, commented:
"Why don't we all just stick our heads in the sand and hope that the 
problem goes away?"

A ministry official, Arnold Weatherby, remarked that Rolling's 
lawyers had already taken action under muggle law. "Luckily they 
haven't realised that `John Doe' is a famous magical name, bless 
them. Even if the Doe family do have a bit of a reputation."

A spokeswoman for the Doe family angrily remarked "This is typical 
of John. I told my husband not to call him that, but no, he said it 
was a traditional Doe name. Traditional, I said, then why haven't we 
used John or Jane for over 130 years! Because it's bad luck. Look at 
the problems our cousins in North America keep having. But no, he 
thought he knew best  
"

Famous contributor to charitable causes, Mr Lucius Malfoy 
remarked: "We have managed to convince Rolling's lawyers that `John 
Doe' is a legal fiction. I think it's best if you don't ask how."








From artsylynda at aol.com  Fri May  9 13:59:32 2003
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 09:59:32 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Love my job, hate the pay
Message-ID: <147.112361bf.2bed0e44@aol.com>

>Cindy -- counting a few teachers, an architect and a minister among 
>the group, but figuring there must be other occupations out there


I'm a sculptor.  I make bronze, cold-cast porcelain, handcast paper, handcast 
resin, 3-D and reliefs, and mostly of horses, also of cats, cougars, a 
dragon, etc.  I also make 14K gold and sterling silver jewelry, also of 
horses.  I market my work myself, made and maintain my own website, have 
written and sell a book on sculpting (I was a writer before I was a sculptor 
-- my degree is in music, I'm a singer, was a songwriter, did some concerts, 
led choirs for a while, was a secretary for a while -- hence my incredibly 
fast typing skills -- was substitute school teacher for 9 years when our kids 
were growing up, also a horse show mom, did crafts for many years -- macrame, 
counted cross stitch, etc., making up my own designs and selling them, then 
got into stained glass.)  Always wanted to sculpt, never found a 3-D thinker 
to be my teacher until I was 43.  She's a potter but thinks the way I do, so 
she was able to show me the basic concepts, and I have taken two workshops 
since then, but all my teachers insiste I'm self-taught, so that's how I 
"bill" myself, a self-taught artist.  I started sculpting 9 years ago, and 7 
years ago had to go "pro" because bronze is too expensive to do as a hobby.  
I do four BIG shows (trade fairs, except for the one in Loveland, which is 
the largest sculpture show in the world) a year (Equine Affaire both in Ohio 
and Massachusetts, the Loveland Sculpture Invitational in Loveland, Colorado, 
and a festival that's part of Derby Week in Louisville KY, from which I just 
returned) as well as having an art booth at CDI level (and higher) dressage 
shows.  I also enter some juried gallery shows, but not many.  Funny Cide, 
the gelding who won the Kentucky Derby, won a trophy I made earlier this 
year, the New York Thoroughbred Breeders 2002 Champion Two-Year-Old Colt 
award.  Pretty darned cool to see a horse whose owners have one of my 
trophies gallop off to become Derby history!  "Brilliant!" as Harry would 
say!  :-D  I sure hope he goes for the Triple Crown!  And I'll bet I'll be 
doing another NY Tb trophy for him next year!  I *love* my job -- it's 
exhausting, doesn't pay well, and takes a lot of time, but it's the most 
soul-satisfying thing I've ever done (other than ride my darling horse Jack 
-- you can see him on my "about the artist" page).  I'm not making a a living 
at it yet, so it's a good thing my hubby makes a decent living, but I'm doing 
rather well, thanks in large part to lots of trophy jobs for race tracks and 
Thoroughbred associations and other breed associations.  Since we're talking 
about our jobs here, I'll leave my "business signature" on this email so you 
can see what I'm talking about.  (And if you want to see my dragon, he's 
here:   <A HREF="http://www.thesculptedhorse.com/dragon.html">" Dragon's Dilemma "</A>  -- not an HP type dragon, a Pern-type 
bio-engineered dragon, with permission from the author -- I call him "Arnie 
Swartzendragon" because he's so "buff," heehee)

Lynda Sappington
 <A HREF="http://www.thesculptedhorse.com/">Equine Art by Lynda Sappington</A>  Elegant equine art in bronze, cold-cast 
porcelain, handcast paper and resin.  Also jewelry with an equine theme in 
14K gold and sterling silver.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From artsylynda at aol.com  Fri May  9 14:07:40 2003
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 10:07:40 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] do you guys really like your jobs?
Message-ID: <bb.313066b1.2bed102c@aol.com>

In a message dated 5/8/2003 9:39:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com writes:

> I've spent the last 2 years studying for a professional 
> HR qualification

Oh dear, I've been reading too many HP message boards.  I read the above as 
"professional HP qualification" and wondered how you got qualified as a 
professional Harry Potter fan -- *giggle*  I thought somebody was having some 
fun with us here!  LOL!  Oopsie!!

Lynda 
* * *
"Don't let  the Muggles get you down." Ron Weasley PoA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From rainbow at rainbowbrite.net  Fri May  9 14:48:29 2003
From: rainbow at rainbowbrite.net (Katy Cartee)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 10:48:29 -0400
Subject: another reason
References: <1052489924.2558.79679.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <020301c3163a$0ed80c20$2302a8c0@sysonline.com>

"Chase Wildstar" wrote:

> My gowd, I rejoined the HP4GU main group for a week. Posted one reply, got
> the typical "your message does not conform" BullS__T responce, and then
got
> so mad I dropped the group..

I did the same thing the first time i joined the main list. But later on
discovered that i was only hurting myself by not abiding by their rules.
Their rules really are NEEDED and there for a reason - not just to piss
people off.

~Katy~




From psychic_serpent at yahoo.com  Fri May  9 15:11:50 2003
From: psychic_serpent at yahoo.com (psychic_serpent)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 15:11:50 -0000
Subject: another reason / loads of spam
In-Reply-To: <b9ffb5+g2ks@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9ggfm+rl22@eGroups.com>

> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Chase Wildstar"
> <Chasewildstar at a...> wrote:
> > already did that 3 weeks ago..
> > And I checked it yesterday too..
> > Same thing, everything is checked NO.
> > So Its gotta be a spammer using the main group as a place to 
> > glean Email addys from.

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboy_mn at y...> wrote:
> If you are reading and posting to the group by email instead of 
> coming to that actual Yahoo group webpage, then you email address 
> may have been intercepted along the way.

Or it could just be coincidence, and someone else has latched onto 
your email address, having nothing to do with Yahoogroups.  I use 
this address exclusively for Yahoogroups, largely HP, but a couple 
connected with television shows I like.  I receive an average of one 
Bulk email a day, which I delete.  My other email address is used 
for things like my church email, being contacted by my architecture 
professors, my family members, etc.  I'm not on a slew of groups 
under that address, and the few groups I'm on are tiny and I never 
post on them except through webview.  And yet on that address I 
receive massive amounts of junk mail, much of which ends up in my 
inbox (although a lot still goes into the bulk mail folder).  

Other things I've done, though, are to read the HPFGU posts only on 
webview (the volume is just too huge for me to want to send all 
posts to my mailbox) and to put a lot of filters on my email account 
to send junk right into my trash folder.  I have filters that send 
mail there if I'm not the person to whom it is actually addressed 
(this covers a lot of junk mail), and if there are certain stock 
words or phrases in the the subject line (judge based on the junk 
mail you're getting now which words or phrases will help you weed 
out the majority of the junk).  I've done this on both accounts, and 
yet this one never has junk mail that seeps into my inbox, while the 
other one gets an avarage of 30 junkmails a day that aren't caught 
by either my filters or Yahoo's bulk mail filters.  Go figure.

--Barb

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychic_Serpent
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb





From erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com  Fri May  9 15:37:23 2003
From: erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com (erisedstraeh2002)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 15:37:23 -0000
Subject: Treating Chocolate Frog Wizard Cards as Canon?
Message-ID: <b9ghvj+hu6h@eGroups.com>

I was wondering whether the Famous Witches and Wizards cards found in 
the Chocolate Frogs would be considered "canon" for HPfGU posting 
purposes, since the Leaky Cauldron web site noted that Wizards of the 
Coast verbally confirmed that JKR "approved and in some cases edited" 
the text of these cards.  Since I wasn't sure, I thought I'd post my 
thoughts to OT-Chatter to be safe.

I was particularly intrigued by the text of the Bowman Wright card, 
since I (and others) have a hunch that he may be a distant relative 
of James Potter (based on his Godric's Hollow residency).  Two things 
in particular interested me: his 1492 birthdate and the fact that it 
was pointed out that he was the son of a non-wizard father and a 
witch.  1492 is obviously significant as the year Christopher 
Columbus discovered America. In reward, Spain granted Columbus the 
right to bear arms in 1493.  Columbus' coat of arms was divided into 
four quadrants, the second of which bore a *lion.*  Heir of 
Gryffindor theory, anyone? 

Specifying that Wright was the son of a Muggle father and a witch 
mother is interesting in that, if he really is an ancestor of James 
Potter, it reveals that James Potter's wizarding lineage is not "pure-
blood." Perhaps this explains why Tom Riddle calls Harry a "half-
blood" in CoS Ch. 17.  It's also interesting that Wright has the same 
parentage as Voldemort - witch mother and Muggle father.

~Phyllis





From ken.kuller at veritas.com  Fri May  9 16:09:56 2003
From: ken.kuller at veritas.com (Kenneth M. Kuller)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 16:09:56 -0000
Subject: Treating Chocolate Frog Wizard Cards as Canon?
In-Reply-To: <b9ghvj+hu6h@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9gjsk+5guk@eGroups.com>

I think they would be considered as "Apocrypha."

- Ken Kuller


--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "erisedstraeh2002" 
<erisedstraeh2002 at y...> wrote:
> I was wondering whether the Famous Witches and Wizards cards found 
in 
> the Chocolate Frogs would be considered "canon" for HPfGU posting 
> purposes, since the Leaky Cauldron web site noted that Wizards of 
the 
> Coast verbally confirmed that JKR "approved and in some cases 
edited" 
> the text of these cards.  Since I wasn't sure, I thought I'd post 
my 
> thoughts to OT-Chatter to be safe.
> 





From illyana at mindspring.com  Fri May  9 18:03:50 2003
From: illyana at mindspring.com (illyana delorean)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 11:03:50 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Bungay latest
In-Reply-To: <b9g5a0+c98e@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9654C6DC-8248-11D7-AAFF-003065B8B954@mindspring.com>


On Friday, May 9, 2003, at 05:01  , David wrote:

> See
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts/3012759.stm
>
> and
>
> http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/jdoerestrain.html
>
> I wonder what is meant by the wording "*partial* copies of Harry
> Potter and the Order of the Phoenix was allegedly found in a field"
> (my emphasis)?? Does that mean that the page pictured in The Sun
> (which I haven't seen) may not in fact be the last page of the book?
>

If I remember correctly, the copies that were found in the field did 
not have their front covers (and possibly their back covers, as well). 
I think that is what is meant by "partial" copies.

illyana


HPGCv1
a22 e+ x+* Rm Ri HP4 S+++ Mo++ HG+/VK++ HaP+/SS+++& FGW++ DM++& VC-- 
GG-- CD+ VK++ SS+++& PT--- AF-- MM++ RL++ O+m FAo F- Sl FHo SfD

visit my livejournal! http://www.livejournal.com/users/illyanadmc


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From rainbow at rainbowbrite.net  Fri May  9 20:39:02 2003
From: rainbow at rainbowbrite.net (Katy)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 20:39:02 -0000
Subject: Treating Chocolate Frog Wizard Cards as Canon?
In-Reply-To: <b9ghvj+hu6h@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9h3l6+dt4q@eGroups.com>

Why don't you post this on the main list? We had a similar discussion 
a couple of weeks ago, and i think that this information is very 
interesting.

>From what we discussed previously, this would be considered "pseudo-
canon" because JKR didn't explicitly write it herself. But the fact 
that she approved and edited definitely makes it "more canon" than 
other sources. 

~Katy~

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "erisedstraeh2002" 
<erisedstraeh2002 at y...> wrote:
> I was wondering whether the Famous Witches and Wizards cards found 
in 
> the Chocolate Frogs would be considered "canon" for HPfGU posting 
> purposes, since the Leaky Cauldron web site noted that Wizards of 
the 
> Coast verbally confirmed that JKR "approved and in some cases 
edited" 
> the text of these cards.  Since I wasn't sure, I thought I'd post 
my 
> thoughts to OT-Chatter to be safe.




From Ali at zymurgy.org  Fri May  9 21:10:39 2003
From: Ali at zymurgy.org (Ali)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 21:10:39 -0000
Subject: Treating Chocolate Frog Wizard Cards as Canon?
In-Reply-To: <b9ghvj+hu6h@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9h5gf+nrgr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "erisedstraeh2002" 
<erisedstraeh2002 at y...> wrote:

>> I was particularly intrigued by the text of the Bowman Wright 
card, since I (and others) have a hunch that he may be a distant 
relative of James Potter (based on his Godric's Hollow residency).  
Two things in particular interested me: his 1492 birthdate and the 
fact that it was pointed out that he was the son of a non-wizard 
father and a witch.  1492 is obviously significant as the year 
Christopher Columbus discovered America. In reward, Spain granted 
Columbus the  right to bear arms in 1493.  Columbus' coat of arms 
was divided into four quadrants, the second of which bore a *lion.*  
Heir of Gryffindor theory, anyone? >>>

Do you think that it would also then be significant that Sir Nearly 
Headless Nick was beheaded in 1492? Perhaps Bowman Wright was the 
son of Sir Nearly Headless Nick - and Nick was beheaded for his 
fling with a witch?

>>> Specifying that Wright was the son of a Muggle father and a 
witch  mother is interesting in that, if he really is an ancestor of 
James Potter, it reveals that James Potter's wizarding lineage is 
not "pure- blood." Perhaps this explains why Tom Riddle calls Harry 
a "half- blood" in CoS Ch. 17.  It's also interesting that Wright 
has the same  parentage as Voldemort - witch mother and Muggle 
father.<<<

I would have thought that if James' lineage had 500 years worth of 
pureblood, that would be sufficient even by Voldemorts standards, 
wouldn't it? But I also believe that Bowman Wright is linked to the 
Potters - perhaps James' ancestral wealth was inherited from Mr 
Wright.

Ali





From erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com  Fri May  9 21:28:52 2003
From: erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com (erisedstraeh2002)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 21:28:52 -0000
Subject: Treating Chocolate Frog Wizard Cards as Canon?
In-Reply-To: <b9h5gf+nrgr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9h6ik+eakd@eGroups.com>

Ali wrote:
 
> Do you think that it would also then be significant that Sir Nearly 
> Headless Nick was beheaded in 1492? Perhaps Bowman Wright was the 
> son of Sir Nearly Headless Nick - and Nick was beheaded for his 
> fling with a witch?

Now me: 

Oooooh - good one, I forgot about Nick's death-year!  Hmmm...too much 
of a coincidence to be a coincidence, IMO.  But the card says that 
Wright was the son of a Muggle father, so that would mean Nick was a 
Muggle...I always assumed the Hogwarts ghosts were once wizards, but 
perhaps that is an incorrect assumption?? 

~Phyllis






From ZaraLyon at aol.com  Fri May  9 23:53:00 2003
From: ZaraLyon at aol.com (aurigae_prime)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 23:53:00 -0000
Subject: Treating Chocolate Frog Wizard Cards as Canon?
In-Reply-To: <b9h6ik+eakd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9hf0s+t4mk@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "erisedstraeh2002" 
<erisedstraeh2002 at y...> wrote:
> Ali wrote:
>  
> > Do you think that it would also then be significant that Sir 
Nearly 
> > Headless Nick was beheaded in 1492? Perhaps Bowman Wright was the 
> > son of Sir Nearly Headless Nick - and Nick was beheaded for his 
> > fling with a witch?
> 
> Then Phyllis wrote: 
> 
> Oooooh - good one, I forgot about Nick's death-year!  Hmmm...too 
much 
> of a coincidence to be a coincidence, IMO.  But the card says that 
> Wright was the son of a Muggle father, so that would mean Nick was 
a 
> Muggle...I always assumed the Hogwarts ghosts were once wizards, 
but 
> perhaps that is an incorrect assumption?? 
> 

And yet, Nick WAS Petrified in CoS. Of course, we aren't sure if the 
basilisk could Petrify anyone and just happened to come across the 
muggle-borns, but certainly Nick's Petrification /could/ support the 
theory that he was at least muggle-born if not a muggle proper.


Rhiannon the Raven-Slyth




From prittylina at yahoo.com  Sat May 10 02:31:03 2003
From: prittylina at yahoo.com (L)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 02:31:03 -0000
Subject: Is this a normal 14?
In-Reply-To: <Law9-F100HKHT0cWL0W000033f8@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <b9ho97+e8t2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Stacie" <smotgreg at h...> 
wrote:
> I had the pleasure of sitting next to a beautiful young woman [...] 

<snip>

Goodness, she sounds like the daughter of my study advisor although, 
to be fair, he is a political scientist, not a natural scientist. 

While working as a tour interpreter for English- and French-speaking 
groups in China, I met many younger girls and boys (well, younger 
than me, as I was 19/20 at the time) who fit such description -- 
those who were more mature than my classmates back home, even. While 
meeting and chatting with them was always amusing, I couldn't help 
but feel sad for them, in a way. It's difficult to be that child when 
the rest of your lot are eons away from you (such has been my 
experience, at least). Regardless, they were great fun. 


Lina




From gandharvika at hotmail.com  Sat May 10 02:39:38 2003
From: gandharvika at hotmail.com (Gail Bohacek)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 02:39:38 +0000
Subject: HP Checks?
Message-ID: <Law8-F57gPPf3L9BGTu0000c01d@hotmail.com>

This past week I opened another checking account and was asked by the bank 
if I wanted to order checkbooks from them.  That's when  I thought how hip 
it would be to have checks with Harry Potter designs on them.  You know, 
like they have Disney and Loony Tunes and all sorts of other silly 
things...why not something cool like Harry Potter?  I tried to Google "Harry 
Potter Checks" but all that would come up was methods of payment for 
purchasing HP merchandise off the internet.  Has anybody seen/heard about 
this sort of thing?   Because I'm really interested.

-Gail B.

_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail




From jrpessin at mail.millikin.edu  Sat May 10 05:24:25 2003
From: jrpessin at mail.millikin.edu (Jonathan Pessin)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 00:24:25 -0500
Subject: Need help for a fanfic
Message-ID: <sebc46c7.021@mail.millikin.edu>

OK, so I've been writing a fanfic based on the theory REDHEAD ALWAYS
that was brought up a while back on the main board.  I've got the first
chapter up at Fiction Alley at
http://www.thedarkarts.org/authorLinks/Hobbit_Guy/Tempus_Fugit/ and
I'm nearly done with chapter 2, but I need some more scenes.  Anybody
have any ideas on what could happen to Harry in between Dumbledore's
revelation and the beginning of the battle in which Ron goes?  Please
e-mail me privately if you can help out.  Thanks!

P.S.  read my fics - I like them!

Hobbit_guy, who thinks writer's block is a worse enemy than Voldemort
ever was.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You haven't been getting into the Gaffer's home brew again, have
you?"
"No... Well, yes, but that's beside the point."
-Frodo and Bilbo Baggins, Fellowship of the Rings Extended Edition DVD



From psychic_serpent at yahoo.com  Sat May 10 05:24:36 2003
From: psychic_serpent at yahoo.com (psychic_serpent)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 05:24:36 -0000
Subject: Treating Chocolate Frog Wizard Cards as Canon?
In-Reply-To: <b9ghvj+hu6h@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9i2ek+ss4u@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "erisedstraeh2002" 
<erisedstraeh2002 at y...> wrote:
> I was particularly intrigued by the text of the Bowman Wright 
card, since I (and others) have a hunch that he may be a distant 
relative of James Potter (based on his Godric's Hollow residency).  
Two things in particular interested me: his 1492 birthdate and the 
fact that it was pointed out that he was the son of a non-wizard 
father and a witch.  1492 is obviously significant as the year 
Christopher Columbus discovered America.  

Me:

Accoring to "Quidditch Through the Ages," 'Bowman Wright, of 
Godric's Hollow' was a skilled metal-charmer (which is appropriate 
to the name of 'wright') who wanted to create a replacement for the 
Golden Snidget, the bird that was supposed to be caught by the 
Seeker, because it was deemed cruel and the Snidget was declared an 
endangered species.  He succeeded in inventing the Golden Snitch, 
which 'mimicked the behaviour and flight patterns of the Snidget.'  
There's quite a lot more about this, but it's possible that there 
isn't anything on this card (I haven't seen them) that isn't in 
Quidditch Through the Ages, which, as it is authored by JKR, is 
accepted as canon.  There are also numerous famous witches and 
wizards mentioned in Fantastic Beasts.  Any of them might be fodder 
for these cards.

If Wright does in fact turn out to be an ancestor of Harry's, I find 
it interesting that his surname means someone who makes something 
(used in combination with other things frequently, such as 
boatwright or cartwright).  A 'potter' is also a person who makes 
things--pots.  I wonder whether we'll see other ancestors--if any 
are revealed--with similar names, such as Carpenter or Cooper (a 
maker of staved barrels).

--Barb

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychic_Serpent
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb






From walkthewalk999 at aol.com  Sat May 10 11:01:37 2003
From: walkthewalk999 at aol.com (walkthewalk999 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 07:01:37 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: another reason / loads of spam
Message-ID: <1aa.144399c7.2bee3611@aol.com>


If an email address is on a web site in another way of getting on SPAM lists, 
"worm crawlers" go around and collect them. 

Once on the list - forget it.

And if you click on "unsubscribe", it only confirms for the spammer that it 
is a live address.

Linda



In a message dated 5/9/2003 11:14:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
psychic_serpent at yahoo.com writes:

> And yet on that address I 
> receive massive amounts of junk mail, much of which ends up in my 
> inbox (although a lot still goes into the bulk mail folder).  
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From sophiamcl at hotmail.com  Sat May 10 11:45:41 2003
From: sophiamcl at hotmail.com (sophiamcl)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 11:45:41 -0000
Subject: HP-shopping in London
Message-ID: <b9iop5+r1di@eGroups.com>

Hello all!
I'm a lurker surfacing for some advice. In a few weeks time I'll be in London 
for a couple of days. Since Sweden (where I normally reside...) isn't the best 
venue for finding HP-stuff, I thought I'd take the opportunity to look for some 
HP-paraphernalia while in England. Trouble is, I haven't a clue where I might 
find the good stuff--or any stuff. Are there any Londoners on this list that 
would care to advise me on where to go? 

Sophia




From sophiamcl at hotmail.com  Sat May 10 11:56:30 2003
From: sophiamcl at hotmail.com (sophiamcl)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 11:56:30 -0000
Subject: HP Checks?
In-Reply-To: <Law8-F57gPPf3L9BGTu0000c01d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <b9ipde+d747@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Gail Bohacek" 
<gandharvika at h...> wrote:
> This past week I opened another checking account and was asked by the 
bank 
> if I wanted to order checkbooks from them.  That's when  I thought how hip 
> it would be to have checks with Harry Potter designs on them.  You know, 
> like they have Disney and Loony Tunes and all sorts of other silly 
> things...why not something cool like Harry Potter?  I tried to Google "Harry 
> Potter Checks" but all that would come up was methods of payment for 
> purchasing HP merchandise off the internet.  Has anybody seen/heard 
about 
> this sort of thing? 

I haven't seen checks with HP-designs, but there is a company that will 
custom design checks for you--maybe that's an option. Check out 
www.mac-ilan.com

Sophia




From hp at plum.cream.org  Sat May 10 14:18:21 2003
From: hp at plum.cream.org (GulPlum)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 15:18:21 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] HP-shopping in London
In-Reply-To: <b9iop5+r1di@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20030510144745.009762b0@plum.cream.org>

Sophia wrote:
>Hello all!
>I'm a lurker surfacing for some advice. In a few weeks time I'll be in London
>for a couple of days. Since Sweden (where I normally reside...) isn't the 
>best
>venue for finding HP-stuff, I thought I'd take the opportunity to look for 
>some
>HP-paraphernalia while in England. Trouble is, I haven't a clue where I might
>find the good stuff--or any stuff. Are there any Londoners on this list that
>would care to advise me on where to go?

I'm an ex-Londoner rather than a current one, so perhaps I'm out of date, 
but here goes anyway...

The big problem you have is that we're currently out of HP "season", and 
all the shops have already dismantled their HP merchandising drives. Three 
months ago, you couldn't have gone into a Toys R Us, Woolworths, Argos or 
larger supermarkets without tripping on HP merchandise of some sort or 
another.

For instance, one of my nieces works for Woolworths, and she told me that 
two weeks after the release of the DVD, almost all remaining HP merchandise 
went into storage until the Christmas season. Until a few weeks ago, every 
Woolworths' children's wear department had a dedicated HP section; I was in 
a large Woolworths earlier today which had a couple of t-shirts on display 
and nothing else. The confectionery display included all the varieties of 
HP sweets (Bertie Bott's, Frogs, Honeyduke's, etc, etc). Today there were 
none at all.

The release of X-Men 2 last week and the release of the first Matrix sequel 
in two weeks' time means that space given to HP products is now (or soon 
will be) taken over by those two franchises.

In summary, you're going to be hard-pressed to find much of anything 
HP-related other than huge posters for OotP in bookshops, or the occasional 
character model in toyshops or larger supermarkets.

There's always Hamleys (which used to be "the largest toy shop in the 
world") which still seems to have a fair amount of HP stuff on sale 
according to their web site: 
http://www.hamleys.co.uk/Search.asp?ss=harry+potter&x=28&y=7 (the site also 
includes directions how to get there).

You might want to try places like the markets in Brick Lane 
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=533889&y=182257&z=1&sv=brick+lane&st 
=1&tl=Brick+Lane,+E1&searchp=newsearch.srf&mapp=newmap.srf

or Portobello Road

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=524264&y=181790&z=1&sv=portobello+ro 
ad&st=1&tl=Portobello+Road,+W10&searchp=newsearch.srf&mapp=newmap.srf

for remaindered/discounted toys and other merchandise, but that's about it.

Again, it's down to your timing. If you'd come before Easter, it would have 
been quicker to give you advice on how to *avoid* HP merchandise ("stay out 
of Central London") :-)

--
GulPlum AKA Richard, who needed his fix of Every Flavour Chocolates.




From rvotaw at i-55.com  Sat May 10 14:33:56 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (rvotaw at i-55.com)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 09:33:56 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] HP-shopping in London
Message-ID: <31646501.1052577236729.JavaMail.root@webmail.i-55.com>

GulPlum wrote:

> I'm an ex-Londoner rather than a current one, so perhaps I'm out of date, 
> but here goes anyway...<BR>
> <BR>
> The big problem you have is that we're currently out of HP and <BR>
> all the shops have already dismantled their HP merchandising drives. Three 
> months ago, you couldn't have gone into a Toys R Us, Woolworths, Argos or <BR>
> larger supermarkets without tripping on HP merchandise of some sort or <BR>
> another

Hmm.  Okay, so what is your projected outlook for, say, next June (2004)?  If 
PoA really is released then, will that make it easier to find HP stuff or will 
they still keep in until Christmas?  That's when my trip is currently planned 
for.

Richelle

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From hp at plum.cream.org  Sat May 10 15:08:55 2003
From: hp at plum.cream.org (GulPlum)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 16:08:55 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] HP-shopping in London
In-Reply-To: <31646501.1052577236729.JavaMail.root@webmail.i-55.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20030510155728.009a5b00@plum.cream.org>

Richelle wrote in answer to my previous comments:

>Hmm.  Okay, so what is your projected outlook for, say, next June (2004)?  If
>PoA really is released then, will that make it easier to find HP stuff or 
>will
>they still keep in until Christmas?  That's when my trip is currently planned
>for.

My projected outlook? In a word (or, rather) two: "very good". :-)

Just because PoA will be a summer rather then Christmas release, doesn't 
mean that the shops will wait until Christmas to do their merchandising. I 
expect it's the same in the USA. The amount of coverage the film's release 
will have and thus the opportunities for publicising new toys, etc, far 
outweighs the benefits that come from the Christmas season.

I would expect that big shops in the UK will go HP crazy about a week 
before the movie's release, although character figures such as Sirius or 
Remus probably won't hit the shelves until the weekend of the movie's 
release (considering both characters are spoilers of themselves).

As the in the USA, new movies come out on Fridays, although PoA will 
probably follow the previous HP movies' lead and have a massive "preview" 
release the weekend before, so the merchandising drive will be timed to 
coincide with that.

As for the exact release date, nobody knows (and if WB have plans already, 
they've not told anyone yet), although I would guess at either next years' 
equivalent of this weekend (mid-May) or not until schools in the USA are 
out (mid June; British schools aren't out until mid July).

--
GulPlum AKA Richard, wondering if the only new toys will be a Shrieking 
Shack and Firebolt.




From natmichaels at hotmail.com  Sat May 10 16:09:27 2003
From: natmichaels at hotmail.com (lorien_eve)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 16:09:27 -0000
Subject: HP Scrubs (WAS HP Checks)?
In-Reply-To: <Law8-F57gPPf3L9BGTu0000c01d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <b9j87n+m5jr@eGroups.com>

Good question! It would be sooo cool to have Harry Potter checks. And 
thanks to the person who replied and listed the site where they 
custom-make checks. This leads me to my question....I work in a 
doctor's office and would *love* to have some Harry Potter scrubs. 
They have Looney Tunes, Scooby-Doo, Disney, ect. so why not have 
Harry Potter? Well, I've searched the 'net for them with no luck. 
Anyone know if/where I could find any?

Lorien_Eve


--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Gail Bohacek" 
<gandharvika at h...> wrote:
> This past week I opened another checking account and was asked by 
the bank 
> if I wanted to order checkbooks from them.  That's when  I thought 
how hip 
> it would be to have checks with Harry Potter designs on them.  You 
know, 
> like they have Disney and Loony Tunes and all sorts of other silly 
> things...why not something cool like Harry Potter?  I tried to 
Google "Harry 
> Potter Checks" but all that would come up was methods of payment 
for 
> purchasing HP merchandise off the internet.  Has anybody seen/heard 
about 
> this sort of thing?   Because I'm really interested.
> 
> -Gail B.
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*  
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail




From rvotaw at i-55.com  Sat May 10 16:34:40 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (rvotaw at i-55.com)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 11:34:40 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: HP Scrubs (WAS HP Checks)?
Message-ID: <28020677.1052584480959.JavaMail.root@webmail.i-55.com>

Lorien_Eve wrote:

> custom-make checks. This leads me to my question....I work in a <BR>
> doctor's office and would *love* to have some Harry Potter scrubs. <BR>
> They have Looney Tunes, Scooby-Doo, Disney, ect. so why not have <BR>
> Harry Potter? Well, I've searched the 'net for them with no luck. <BR>
> Anyone know if/where I could find any?<BR>

Peaches uniforms makes a Wizard bears scrub and jacket.  I have both.  They're 
really cute, it's got teddy bears with little round glasses instead of Harry.  
He's flying on a broom, with owls and castles.  I've started wearing them to 
teach in, the pockets are so handy for confiscating toys and always having a 
pen on hand. :)  

However, since the Wizard bears one was $30, I decided that was a bit 
expensive.  So I got a pattern and started making them myself.  I got the HP 
Polyjuice potion fabric, it's so subtly Harry Potter that I can wear it to work 
with no strange looks. :) I got that fabric for $2 a yard, and it takes two 
yards to make a top.  So I got that shirt for $4.  You can also still get most 
of the HP fabrics from Hancockfabrics.com.  If you sew, that's the cheapest 
way.  If you don't, you could probably get them made for pretty cheap because 
they're very easy to make (trust me, if I can make them it's easy!).  If I can 
make it in about four hours start to finish, a "real" seamstress could do it in 
an hour and a half max.

Richelle

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Sat May 10 17:04:26 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 17:04:26 -0000
Subject: HP-shopping in London
In-Reply-To: <b9iop5+r1di@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9jbeq+br59@eGroups.com>

Sophia wrote:

> Hello all!
> I'm a lurker surfacing for some advice. In a few weeks time I'll 
be in London 
> for a couple of days. Since Sweden (where I normally reside...) 
isn't the best 
> venue for finding HP-stuff, I thought I'd take the opportunity to 
look for some 
> HP-paraphernalia while in England. Trouble is, I haven't a clue 
where I might 
> find the good stuff--or any stuff. Are there any Londoners on this 
list that 
> would care to advise me on where to go? 

Sophia, do you know about the HP London list, at

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-London

You could ask there, and you might find people to go shopping with, 
if you want, too.

David




From sophiamcl at hotmail.com  Sat May 10 19:33:22 2003
From: sophiamcl at hotmail.com (sophiamcl)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 19:33:22 -0000
Subject: HP-shopping in London
In-Reply-To: <b9jber+p1qo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9jk62+c0of@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "David" <dfrankiswork at n...> 
wrote:
> Sophia wrote:
> 
> > Hello all!
 I wrote:
I thought I'd take the opportunity to 
 look for some 
 HP-paraphernalia while in England. Trouble is, I haven't a clue 
 where I might 
 find the good stuff--or any stuff. Are there any Londoners on this 
 list that 
 would care to advise me on where to go? 

Dave replied:
> Sophia, do you know about the HP London list, at
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-London
> 
> You could ask there, and you might find people to go shopping with, 
> if you want, too.
> 
> David

Thankyou for the tip, I certainly will try that list. And Richard: you're probably 
right, alas. I'll just content myself by sitting outside Bloomsbury Publishing for 
a while and pine. (I wish I could have timed my visit with the release of OoTP)

Sophia




From hp at plum.cream.org  Sat May 10 20:47:26 2003
From: hp at plum.cream.org (GulPlum)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 21:47:26 +0100
Subject: No. 35
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20030510213925.0098bad0@plum.cream.org>

A word of explanation for those outside Britain:

A few months ago, the BBC did a whole series about "The Hundred Greatest 
Britons" based on a survey run through their web site. (Churchill won): 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/programmes/greatbritons/

Not to be outdone, as I type, Channel Four are showing a hight-hearted 
programme of "The Hundred Worst Britons" (based on a survey run through 
their web site a while ago). Guess who's at Number 35? None other but a 
certain fictional teenage wizard!

http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsites/G/greatest/britons/resul 
ts.html was meant to have the list up by now, but it seems they're late...

(I only caught Number 35 because I was watching something else and switched 
over during a commercial break).

The reasons were particularly stupid, from "encouraging witchcraft" to a 
film reviewer I've never heard of complaining that he couldn't watch the 
whole of the first movie in peace because of the kids in the audience...




From cristina_angelo at yahoo.com  Sat May 10 21:12:27 2003
From: cristina_angelo at yahoo.com (Cristina Rebelo Angelo)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 23:12:27 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] No. 35
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20030510213925.0098bad0@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <BFECIODBAEHNLMBKGOGJOEJGCFAA.cristina_angelo@yahoo.com>

I beg to disagree, as portuguese. Harry Potter is not brit, he was born in
Portugal (JKR said she'd had the idea for the books in Portugal!!!), and
according to our laws, anyone born in portuguese soil is
portuguese!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And since JKR interviews can be considered canon, this is true!!!!

There.

BTW, maybe that's where Harry was for those 24 h... I vaguely recall a baby
at our house for a day...



**************************
Cristina Rebelo Angelo

Any attached file not mentioned in the body of the message may be a virus;
if present, delete it for the sake of your computer, and inform the sender.
Thank you.

"Quand on n'a que l'amour/ Pour tracer un chemin/ Et forcer le destin/ A
chaque carrefour
Quand on n'a que l'amour/ Pour parler aux canons/ Et rien qu'une chanson/
Pour coinvancre un tambour
Alors sans avoir rien/ Que la force d'aimer/ Nous aurons dans nos mains/
Amis le monde entier"
J.Brel 1956

ICQ 106.255.886
HPGCv1 a31 e++ x+ -- z+++ A27 Rhp HPa S+++ Mo HaP++ HG++ RW++ AD++ RH+++ VK&
NhN& SB& DM--- O++ F sfD
  -----Message d'origine-----
  De : GulPlum [mailto:hp at plum.cream.org]
  Envoye : samedi 10 mai 2003 22:47
  A : hpFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
  Objet : [HPFGU-OTChatter] No. 35


  A word of explanation for those outside Britain:

  A few months ago, the BBC did a whole series about "The Hundred Greatest
  Britons" based on a survey run through their web site. (Churchill won):
  http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/programmes/greatbritons/

  Not to be outdone, as I type, Channel Four are showing a hight-hearted
  programme of "The Hundred Worst Britons" (based on a survey run through
  their web site a while ago). Guess who's at Number 35? None other but a
  certain fictional teenage wizard!


http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsites/G/greatest/britons/resul
  ts.html was meant to have the list up by now, but it seems they're late...

  (I only caught Number 35 because I was watching something else and
switched
  over during a commercial break).

  The reasons were particularly stupid, from "encouraging witchcraft" to a
  film reviewer I've never heard of complaining that he couldn't watch the
  whole of the first movie in peace because of the kids in the audience...


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor





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From devin.smither at yale.edu  Sat May 10 22:22:46 2003
From: devin.smither at yale.edu (uilnslcoap)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 22:22:46 -0000
Subject: Graduating soon
Message-ID: <b9ju3m+kcmt@eGroups.com>

Hello everyone,

Haven't been back here in a long time.  Just wanted to say I'm just 
one paper away from finishing college.  I'm excited and nervous of 
course.  The paper's due Tuesday (the last day anything could be 
due), and right now that seems too close and too far for comfort, as 
though I must hurry to write the paper (too close), but dread the 
time between now and then when I have to be writing it (too far).  
That's okay.  I'll graduate a couple of weeks from now, and when I'm 
done, I'll have time to reflect on everything going on.  Then once 
I've moved into my new place for the summer and get into the groove 
at my summer job at the beginning of June, then I'll just relax and 
wait for Harry to come my way in a couple of weeks...all right, and 
I'll also look for a permanent job as well.

Is anyone else finishing school?  Anyone even not finishing school 
but just looking forward to the end of the year/Harry?  Does the 
British school year end in mid-to-late June?  What's going on school-
wise?

Devin




From rainy_lilac at yahoo.com  Sun May 11 00:47:17 2003
From: rainy_lilac at yahoo.com (rainy_lilac)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 00:47:17 -0000
Subject: Belated Birthday wishes for Suzanne!
In-Reply-To: <20030507150925.98638.qmail@web41104.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b9k6il+n6vm@eGroups.com>

AWWWWWWW!!!!

How sweet of you! I didn't see this until today, but thank you very 
much!

Kisses,

Suzanne



--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Sheryll Townsend 
<s_ings at y...> wrote:
> *blows up balloons and hangs streamers with sore,
> ironed fingers*
> 
> Bad Birthday Elf forgot to get yesterday's party
> started!
> 
> The birthday honouree for yesterday was Suzanne (Rainy
> Lilac). Belated birthday owls can be sent care of this
> list or directly to: rainy_lilac at y...
> 
> I hope you day was filled with fun and brought
> everything you wished for.
> 
> Belated Happy Birthday, Suzanne!
> 
> Sheryll the Birthday Elf
> 
> =====
> "We need to be united and strong. We'll have losses and scares, 
sure. And you'll be there for each other, helping each other through 
the bad times."
>  blpurdom - Harry Potter and the Psychic Serpent, Chapter 26
> 
> 
______________________________________________________________________
 
> Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca




From slstich at hotmail.com  Sun May 11 14:17:02 2003
From: slstich at hotmail.com (Shanna)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 09:17:02 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Graduating soon
References: <b9ju3m+kcmt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <Law11-OE617nyeKzGZu00006d29@hotmail.com>

Hi Devin!
Congrats on finishing college!  I'll be graduating next weekend as well with a BA in Preveterinary Medicine!  I'm going to vet school in the fall, so that should be pretty exciting! lol  Anyway, I finished my last paper last week, so I just have to wait for the ceremony!  So congratulations again and good luck!
Shanna

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: uilnslcoap 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 5:22 PM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Graduating soon


  Hello everyone,

  Haven't been back here in a long time.  Just wanted to say I'm just 
  one paper away from finishing college.  I'm excited and nervous of 
  course.  The paper's due Tuesday (the last day anything could be 
  due), and right now that seems too close and too far for comfort, as 
  though I must hurry to write the paper (too close), but dread the 
  time between now and then when I have to be writing it (too far).  
  That's okay.  I'll graduate a couple of weeks from now, and when I'm 
  done, I'll have time to reflect on everything going on.  Then once 
  I've moved into my new place for the summer and get into the groove 
  at my summer job at the beginning of June, then I'll just relax and 
  wait for Harry to come my way in a couple of weeks...all right, and 
  I'll also look for a permanent job as well.

  Is anyone else finishing school?  Anyone even not finishing school 
  but just looking forward to the end of the year/Harry?  Does the 
  British school year end in mid-to-late June?  What's going on school-
  wise?

  Devin


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From Zugzwang_0 at hotmail.com  Sun May 11 16:34:53 2003
From: Zugzwang_0 at hotmail.com (ecceq)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 16:34:53 -0000
Subject: No. 35
In-Reply-To: <BFECIODBAEHNLMBKGOGJOEJGCFAA.cristina_angelo@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b9lu3d+9i29@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cristina Rebelo Angelo" 
<cristina_angelo at y...> wrote:
> I beg to disagree, as portuguese. Harry Potter is not brit, he was 
born in
> Portugal (JKR said she'd had the idea for the books in 
Portugal!!!), and
> according to our laws, anyone born in portuguese soil is
> portuguese!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> And since JKR interviews can be considered canon, this is true!!!!
> 
> There.
> 
> BTW, maybe that's where Harry was for those 24 h... I vaguely 
recall a baby
> at our house for a day...


LOL But Harry Potter is still British, he may have been concieved 
Portugal and some of his gestation may have taken place there, but he 
was born in Britain ;o)

Ecce-Q




From jmmears at comcast.net  Sun May 11 17:30:24 2003
From: jmmears at comcast.net (serenadust)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 17:30:24 -0000
Subject: No. 35
In-Reply-To: <BFECIODBAEHNLMBKGOGJOEJGCFAA.cristina_angelo@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b9m1bg+dg92@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cristina Rebelo Angelo" 
<cristina_angelo at y...> wrote:
> I beg to disagree, as portuguese. Harry Potter is not brit, he was 
born in
> Portugal (JKR said she'd had the idea for the books in 
Portugal!!!), and
> according to our laws, anyone born in portuguese soil is
> portuguese!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> And since JKR interviews can be considered canon, this is true!!!!


Can you direct me to the interview where JKR said she'd had the idea 
for the books in Portugal?  I know that she lived there for a while 
during her brief first marriage, but in the "Harry Potter & Me" TV 
special, she described having her first inspiration for Harry and 
his story on a British train.  She said that the train had been 
delayed for several hours, she had nothing to write with, and so she 
just sat and came up with his whole character and story line while 
on the train.

I thought I'd read most of her interviews, but I've never seen onew 
where she said she had the idea for Harry while in Portugal.

Jo Serenadust




From cristina_angelo at yahoo.com  Sun May 11 19:44:24 2003
From: cristina_angelo at yahoo.com (Cristina Rebelo Angelo)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 21:44:24 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: No. 35
In-Reply-To: <b9m1bg+dg92@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <BFECIODBAEHNLMBKGOGJAEKCCFAA.cristina_angelo@yahoo.com>

  -----Message d'origine-----
  De : serenadust [mailto:jmmears at comcast.net]
  Envoy? : dimanche 11 mai 2003 19:30
  ? : HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
  Objet : [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: No. 35


  --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cristina Rebelo Angelo"
  <cristina_angelo at y...> wrote:
  > I beg to disagree, as portuguese. Harry Potter is not brit, he was
  born in
  > Portugal (JKR said she'd had the idea for the books in
  Portugal!!!), and
  > according to our laws, anyone born in portuguese soil is
  > portuguese!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  >
  > And since JKR interviews can be considered canon, this is true!!!!


  Can you direct me to the interview where JKR said she'd had the idea
  for the books in Portugal?  I know that she lived there for a while
  during her brief first marriage, but in the "Harry Potter & Me" TV
  special, she described having her first inspiration for Harry and
  his story on a British train.  She said that the train had been
  delayed for several hours, she had nothing to write with, and so she
  just sat and came up with his whole character and story line while
  on the train.

  I thought I'd read most of her interviews, but I've never seen onew
  where she said she had the idea for Harry while in Portugal.

  Jo Serenadust

  [Cristina Rebelo Angelo]

  You're right, about the idea. And I've even found the transcript of the
interview you mention! I knew she had started writing PS in Portugal, and
had left to England with a lot of it written (and logically with most of the
series plot in her head), but indeed the idea is brit-born.

  Anyway, I'm really not going to campaign for this idea of Harry being
portuguese (was actually very much surprised when I read in a post that
Hermione had been supposed to be port!)...

  I actually think he has no nationality...
  http://www.mugglenet.com/jkrshow.shtml

  JKR tells of idea for Harry. On a train.

  The journey began back in 1990. She was going from Manchester to London,
thinking of nothing to do with writing and out of nowhere she suddenly saw
Harry, "This scrawny little boy." "I got so excited when I thought of it."
She had no pen or nothing on her and for four hours she had all the ideas
bubbling in her head.

  Narrative from the first book by Stephen Fry. Official BBC tapes on Harry
Potter that was broadcast on BBC Radio last Christmas, 2000.

  She got off train as though she'd just met someone wonderful. As though
she'd just seen the man of her dreams and fallen in love. She got back to
her flat in Clapham Junction and started writing and she's been doing it
ever since.

  She finds Kings Cross very romantic. Her parents met there. Her dad was in
Navy. Her mum was a Wren. She wanted Harry to go to Hogwarts by train. She's
always had a thing about trains. "Like all HP books, it's reality with a
twist." "Those with knowledge and power could go through barrier to platform
9 ?." She didn't want the platform to be done through a time warp or some
kind of other method. It had to be natural to the Wizards and Witches. She
wrote platform 9 ? when she was in Manchester and wrongly visualised the
platforms of Euston and Kings Cross. It was Five years from train journey to
finishing Philosopher's Stone.



  http://www.readersdigest.co.uk/magazine/Rowling2.htm (this one didn't
dowload right, I copied from the code)

  And they all know the Rowling story. She was born in 1965 in Chipping
Sodbury, South Gloucestershirean appropriate birthplace for someone
who loves strange, but believable, names. Writing from the age of six and
with two unpublished novels in the drawer, she was stuck on a train in 1990
when Harry walked into her mind, fully formed. She spent the next five years
constructing the plots of seven books, one for every year of his secondary
school life.<BR>
  Rowling says she started writing the first book, Harry Potter and the
Philosopher's Stone, in Portugal, where she was teaching English and had
married journalist Jorge Arantes. The marriage lasted just over a year, but
produced baby Jessica.<BR>
  Leaving Portugal, she arrived in Edinburgh in 1993 to stay with her
younger sister Di, a lawyer, with just enough money for a deposit on a flat
and some baby equipment. "I was depressed and angry. Angry that I had messed
up my life and let my daughter down." She went to visit a friend of her
sister's who had a baby boy. "His room was full of toys. Jessica's toys
fitted into a shoebox. I came home and cried my eyes out."<BR>


  http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,3822242,00.html

  She laughs - and obligingly skims through a career that includes
comprehensive school in the Forest of Dean; Exeter University ("fantastic,
if not quite the chance to be the 'radical' I planned"); two years at
Amnesty International (researching human rights in Francophone Africa); a
TEFL course in Manchester; a teaching job in Portugal (and a marriage that
didn't work out); after which she came to Edinbugh to be near her sister,
and where she eventually did a PGCE and became a school teacher. "But I'd
always wanted to be a writer, and wherever I was, whatever job I had, I was
always, always writing like crazy, and when I came back from Portugal, I had
not only a four-month-old baby but also one third of Harry Potter. So I had
to finish it."
  **************************
  Cristina Rebelo ?ngelo

  Any attached file not mentioned in the body of the message may be a virus;
if present, delete it for the sake of your computer, and inform the sender.
Thank you.

  "Quand on n'a que l'amour/ Pour tracer un chemin/ Et forcer le destin/ A
chaque carrefour
  Quand on n'a que l'amour/ Pour parler aux canons/ Et rien qu'une chanson/
Pour coinvancre un tambour
  Alors sans avoir rien/ Que la force d'aimer/ Nous aurons dans nos mains/
Amis le monde entier"
  J.Brel 1956

  ICQ 106.255.886
  HPGCv1 a31 e++ x+ -- z+++ A27 Rhp HPa S+++ Mo HaP++ HG++ RW++ AD++ RH+++
VK& NhN& SB& DM--- O++ F sfD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From lucyliz_ward at hotmail.com  Sun May 11 20:08:42 2003
From: lucyliz_ward at hotmail.com (Fairy Queen)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 20:08:42 -0000
Subject: Graduating soon
In-Reply-To: <b9ju3m+kcmt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9maka+back@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "uilnslcoap" 
<devin.smither at y...> wrote:

  Just wanted to say I'm just 
> one paper away from finishing college. 

Congratulations!
 

> Is anyone else finishing school?  Anyone even not finishing school 
> but just looking forward to the end of the year/Harry?  Does the 
> British school year end in mid-to-late June?  What's going on 
school-
> wise?
> 
> Devin

I'm in year 12 at a British muggle school (that's the same as 
Hogwarts sixth year), so I've got one more year to go before I'm off 
to uni.  As for the British school year, our summer holidays don't 
start untill 24th July!  I'm not actually at school for the next few 
weeks though, as I'm on study leave - I have AS level exams (halfway 
between GCSEs and A levels, aka OWLs and NEWTs) coming up soon, so I 
don't have to go to lessons.  But the exams finish mid June, and then 
I have to go back to school untill late July. 

Is there an American equivalent of these exams? What happens when you 
finish school there?

Lucy

p.s What are s'mores? They were mentioned in a TBAY post ages ago, by 
Derannimer, I think, and I meant to ask then but I forgot.




From the.gremlin at verizon.net  Sun May 11 20:57:10 2003
From: the.gremlin at verizon.net (the.gremlin at verizon.net)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 15:57:10 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Graduating soon
Message-ID: <20030511205710.CUZC17739.pop018.verizon.net@pop018ad>

Devin wrote:
"Just wanted to say I'm just one paper away from finishing college."

Awesome, I'm 3 years away, though the school that I'm at has a reputation of making classes harder to take, the closest you get to graduation...fun. Good for you, though!!

"Is anyone else finishing school?  Anyone even not finishing school but just looking forward to the end of the year/Harry?"

I have survived my Freshmen year of college. That's all I have to say about that.

Lucy wrote:
"Is there an American equivalent of these exams? What happens when you finish school there?"

Uhh, the SATs. Or the ELM or EPT. ELM is the entry-level math exam. It's if you don't get a high enough score on the math portion of your SAT. SAT is this really long ridiculous test that you you sometimes have to take to get into college, though I've heard talk of getting rid of it. EPT is the English/Grammar test that you have to take if you don't get a high enough score on the English/Grammar portion of the SAT. Never took that. Took the math one, though. 

And the AP classes. You can take an Advanced Placement Class, then take a test at the end of the year, and when you get to college, you don't have to take the equivalent of the class you took. For instance, I took an Literature/Grammar test, and I didn't have to take an English class at college because I passed the test.

Did I miss anything?

"p.s What are s'mores? They were mentioned in a TBAY post ages ago, by Derannimer, I think, and I meant to ask then but I forgot."

S'mores accompany campfires or beach bonfires. They are composed of graham crackers, topped with a piece of chocalate and a roasted marshmallow. They're quite good.

-Acire
http://www.underground-newslet.com
The Underground--Fixing your addiction for writing.

"So sorry-dozed off-what have I missed?"
Prof. Lockhart, Chamber of Secrets



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From huntleyl at mssm.org  Sun May 11 22:26:16 2003
From: huntleyl at mssm.org (Laura Ingalls Huntley)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 18:26:16 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Graduating soon
References: <20030511205710.CUZC17739.pop018.verizon.net@pop018ad>
Message-ID: <003d01c3180c$58299460$4301a8c0@huntleyl>

Acire:
>SAT is this really long ridiculous test that you you sometimes have to
>take to get into college, though I've heard talk of getting rid of it.
<snip>
> And the AP classes. You can take an Advanced Placement Class, then
>take a test at the end of the year, and when you get to college, you don't
>have to take the equivalent of the class you took. For instance, I took an
>Literature/Grammar test, and I didn't have to take an English class at
>college because I passed the test.

Ugh.  That reminds me, I've got the AP Physics C exam tomorrow.  Shouldn't
be incredibly difficult, but I'm still stressed out about it.  Which is
bad...don't want to psyche myself out.

I didn't really mind the SATs...they're sort of pleasant, actually.  What I
really hate about them is that they take place at an ungodly hour of the
morning on Saturday.  It's like the College Board people sat around and
tried to think of the time when everyone taking them would be the most
exhausted, groggy, and sick of thinking all week.

The only downside to the AP classes is that alot of the upper-ranked schools
are deciding not to accept them as credit. *growls*  Although I think my
English Composition exam is going to get me out of a required Writing credit
next year. *crosses fingers*

> Did I miss anything?

Well, a lot of states have their own little achievement tests that they give
to certain classes (usually juniors)..but they're more to rank the school,
rather than the individual student.

> S'mores accompany campfires or beach bonfires. They are composed
>of graham crackers, topped with a piece of chocolate and a roasted
>marshmallow. They're quite good.

Mmmmmm...quite good, indeed.

Laura (who would give anything to have the weekend last another day)





From timregan at microsoft.com  Mon May 12 01:10:25 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 01:10:25 -0000
Subject: Graduating soon
In-Reply-To: <20030511205710.CUZC17739.pop018.verizon.net@pop018ad>
Message-ID: <b9msa1+hia7@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

I don't think this confusion has crept in yet but it's worth bearing 
in mind that the word "school" in the UK usually equates to the 
words "high school" (or earlier schooling) in the USA, and the 
word "school" in the USA equates to "college" or "university" in the 
UK. At least that's my experience.

Clear?


Cheers,


Dumbledad.




From anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net  Mon May 12 02:10:01 2003
From: anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net (Anne)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 02:10:01 -0000
Subject: Graduating soon
In-Reply-To: <b9maka+back@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9mvpp+oira@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Fairy Queen" 
<lucyliz_ward at h...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "uilnslcoap" 
> <devin.smither at y...> wrote:
> 
>   Just wanted to say I'm just 
> > one paper away from finishing college. 
> 
> Congratulations!
>  
> 
> > Is anyone else finishing school?  Anyone even not finishing 
school 
> > but just looking forward to the end of the year/Harry?  Does the 
> > British school year end in mid-to-late June?  What's going on 
> school-
> > wise?
> > 
> > Devin
> 
> I'm in year 12 at a British muggle school (that's the same as 
> Hogwarts sixth year), so I've got one more year to go before I'm 
off 
> to uni.  As for the British school year, our summer holidays don't 
> start untill 24th July!  I'm not actually at school for the next 
few 
> weeks though, as I'm on study leave - I have AS level exams 
(halfway 
> between GCSEs and A levels, aka OWLs and NEWTs) coming up soon, so 
I 
> don't have to go to lessons.  But the exams finish mid June, and 
then 
> I have to go back to school untill late July. 
> 
> Is there an American equivalent of these exams? What happens when 
you 
> finish school there?
> 
> Lucy
> 
> p.s What are s'mores? They were mentioned in a TBAY post ages ago, 
by 
> Derannimer, I think, and I meant to ask then but I forgot.




From anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net  Mon May 12 02:13:13 2003
From: anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net (Anne)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 02:13:13 -0000
Subject: S'mores
In-Reply-To: <b9mvpp+oira@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9mvvp+jjan@eGroups.com>

Trying again (so sorry): 

> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Fairy Queen" 
> <lucyliz_ward at h...> wrote:
> 
> > p.s What are s'mores? They were mentioned in a TBAY post ages 
ago, 
> by 
> > Derannimer, I think, and I meant to ask then but I forgot.

S'mores are a concoction best made over a camp fire. Basically you 
take a thin slab of chocolate and a roasted marshmallow and squash 
them together between 2 graham crackers. YUMMMY! We had S'mores last 
weekend at a kids' overnight at my church.

Anne U
(fledgling fan fiction author who knows that once you eat one of 
these, you want some more)




From huntleyl at mssm.org  Mon May 12 02:37:12 2003
From: huntleyl at mssm.org (Laura Ingalls Huntley)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 22:37:12 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Graduating soon
References: <b9msa1+hia7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <009901c3182f$66478ac0$4301a8c0@huntleyl>

Dumbledad:
> I don't think this confusion has crept in yet but it's worth bearing
> in mind that the word "school" in the UK usually equates to the
> words "high school" (or earlier schooling) in the USA, and the
> word "school" in the USA equates to "college" or "university" in the
> UK. At least that's my experience.

Well, I'm from the US, and as far as I can tell, you can use "school" to
mean "high school/middle school/grammar school" *or*
"college/university"...usually it's pretty obvious from the context of the
sentence.

Laura





From rvotaw at i-55.com  Mon May 12 02:33:31 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 21:33:31 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Graduating soon
References: <b9msa1+hia7@eGroups.com> <009901c3182f$66478ac0$4301a8c0@huntleyl>
Message-ID: <008101c3182e$e173f0e0$12a0cdd1@RVotaw>

Laura wrote:

> Well, I'm from the US, and as far as I can tell, you can use "school" to
> mean "high school/middle school/grammar school" *or*
> "college/university"...usually it's pretty obvious from the context of the
> sentence.

Around here (Louisiana) school can mean anything from daycare to graduate school.  For that matter, I say I'm going to school and it means I'm going to work.  (I'm a teacher.)  So it's a word with many uses here.  All my toddlers in Sunday School call their daycare "school."

Richelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From catlady at wicca.net  Mon May 12 02:34:22 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 02:34:22 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday! / Daily Prophet / Jobs and Work
Message-ID: <b9n17e+sups@eGroups.com>

Alex dracos_boyfriend and Suzanne Rainy_Lilac had birthdays, and I 
missed them! People whom I actually know (well, know on HPfGU). 
Here's wishing that Draco and Sirius, respectively, gave them good 
birthday parties.

David Frankis Stein, Pip!Squeak: I *LOVE* the Daily Prophet articles.

Cindy C. wrote:

<< Does *anyone* like their job? What kind of job is it, and why do 
you like it? >>

Well, my job is perfect, but I can't advise anyone else to go into 
this field, because my job is obsolete and will be gone in a year or 
two. The obsolete job in question is as a COBOL pgmmer at MTA ... 
This kind of programming is fun, like some people have fun solving 
crossword puzzles (altho' I generally find crossword puzzles too 
frustratingly difficult) AND I like feeling that I'm solving real 
problems to help real people to do their jobs. Also, the pay is good 
and the ethics are okay.

I've been supporting the Material Management System for *counts on 
fingers* for 17 years. By now I'm deeply familiar with the software 
(and not totally ignorant of the business), I know almost all the 
people, and all the people (down here at the level of people who do 
the work, not top management *thank gods*) know me. I'm on call 24/7 
but the system is so old that most of the bugs have been fixed so 
it's pretty stable so I rarely get called. I don't have to meet many 
strangers and I don't have sell myself or my product: "networking" 
and "marketting" are two of the things I hate most. The people with 
whom I work all have an excessively high opinion of me, much better 
than I deserve, and I like the positive strokes. Also everyone holds 
their tongues about me *ignoring* the dress code, refusing to write 
formal memoes/documents (my boss made an arrangement: I write the 
facts and recommendations and she adds the formality), leaving early 
on boring days, and being generally *weird*.

(And they intend to keep me to support the new Oracle/AIX system 
we're installing to replace the old Material Management System and 
Vehicle Maintenance System and also cover a number of areas which 
have never had any software except if they faked something up with 
Excel spreadsheets. Installing the new system is exciting, but 
personally, I expect that supporting the new system will be 
excessively boring, and I won't be exceptionally good at it, and 
therefore lower management will not be able to save me from being 
fired by top management for dressing badly or being rude.)
 
There is so little travel in this job (once every five or ten or 
fifteen years, I guess) that it is viewed as a treat rather than as a 
burden, so I have never yet had a problem seeing to it that someone 
else does the travelling.

And despite all that, I dream of winning multi-millions of dollars in 
the lottery (for which I don't buy tickets) so I could quit the job 
and dedicate ALL my time to doing whatever I want, starting with 
sleeping twelve hours a day, and then reading a great deal of HP 
fanfic for which I currently have no time. And be freed from the daily 
commute, which takes too damn long and is too damn crowded and for 
years has made my knees hurt and lately is making my arse hurt, too.  

Amy Z wrote:

<< I wonder what would happen, Cindy, if you applied for one of 
those interesting, overly-demanding jobs and informed them, during 
the interview, that you plan to work an average of 40 hours a week 
in order to take care of yourself, sustain a healthy family life, 
and Maybe they wouldn't hire you; or maybe they'd respect it. (Most 
likely they would hire you and then try to pressure you into working 
60 hours/week <g>. Good luck!) >>

Somewhere I got the impression that the "mommy track" in law firms 
is for two mommies who happen to both be well-qualified lawyers to 
team up to share one job, so each one only has to work 40 hours a 
week, but each only gets half the pay and half the benefits and no 
chance of making partner.

Cindy wrote:

<<counting a few teachers, an architect and a minister among the 
group, but figuring there must be other occupations out there >>

>From the posts before the one I just snipped: Chase_Wildstar likes 
being a Tool and Die maker. Shanna slstich likes being a guide dog 
trainer. Naama likes working at a used book store. Anna Dradamsapple 
likes being a Medical Technologist AND says the pay isn't bad.

Barb wrote:

<< I didn't figure out what I wanted to be when I grow up until I was 
34. >>

I'm 45 and only about one year ago did I figure out what I want to 
be when I grow up: RETIRED! Actually, there should be a different 
word, as NOW I am TIRED, and I hope to get some rest and become 
de-tired-ized.

Phyllis "erisedstraeh2002" wrote:

<< There's a great book by Richard Nelson Bolles entitled "What Color 
is Your Parachute?" >>

Arrghhh! I hate that book! Everyone always recommends it, so I 
dutifully bought and read a copy (it was skinny in those days) when 
I dropped out of college in 1977. The book made me despair of EVER 
being able to catch any job, so I was very relieved that my mum paid 
for me to take a COBOL pgmming course at Santa Monica College, whose 
job placement office listed job openings, one of which actually hired 
me.

Fifteen or twenty years ago, I read the book again (it was very thick 
by then) and once again it plunged me into despair. The descriptions 
of all the constant labor and drudgery and networking and marketting 
that must be done in order to catch a job made me believe that I would 
NEVER get a job ... even tho' I was already on my fourth job and had 
received a good annual review.




From jmholmes at breckcomm.com  Mon May 12 02:18:08 2003
From: jmholmes at breckcomm.com (Julie Holmes)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 20:18:08 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] S'mores
References: <b9mvvp+jjan@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <112f01c3182c$bba3fce0$6501a8c0@slytherincess>

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anne 

  S'mores are a concoction best made over a camp fire. Basically you 
  take a thin slab of chocolate and a roasted marshmallow and squash 
  them together between 2 graham crackers. YUMMMY! We had S'mores last 
  weekend at a kids' overnight at my church.

  Me (Julie):

  And for the Brits not in the know, graham crackers are kind of like digestive biscuits. I actually researched S'Mores in Britain on the Britpicking board at Fiction Alley for part of my fic. 

  In the US, the word "s'more" comes from "some" and "more," as in "I want s'more, please!" Usually this is said with your mouth stuffed full of your first round of s'mores. Oh, they are decadent for a camping dessert! ;9 *slurp*

  :) Julie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From trinity61us at yahoo.com  Mon May 12 06:12:58 2003
From: trinity61us at yahoo.com (alex fox)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 06:12:58 -0000
Subject: OT: Teaching to the test
Message-ID: <b9ne1a+cu41@eGroups.com>

GoodGrief! Some one just popped up on a group and said that Abraham 
Lincoln was really great in the Declaration Of Independance...What 
the heck are they teaching kids these days? I actually had to argue 
with this kid about the fact that he was born much later, Civil War 
later! He wouldn't believe me! He thought the Civil War happened in 
the 1900's! Till other people also corrected him! These kids are the 
future? We are SO doomed.
What do the kids at Hogwarts know about Muggle wars, I wonder? Surely 
the effects of the two World Wars had an effect on all things within 
the confines of the British shores? Muggle OR WW. 

Alex Fox




From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Mon May 12 09:37:59 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 02:37:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] S'mores
In-Reply-To: <112f01c3182c$bba3fce0$6501a8c0@slytherincess>
Message-ID: <20030512093759.66891.qmail@web21209.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Julie wrote:
>   From: Anne 
> 
>   S'mores are a concoction best made over a
> camp fire. Basically you 
>   take a thin slab of chocolate and a roasted
> marshmallow and squash 
>   them together between 2 graham crackers.
> YUMMMY! We had S'mores last 
>   weekend at a kids' overnight at my church.

Lynn:

And if you're not planning on a camping trip very
soon, you can always use the backyard barbecue to
roast the marshmallows.  If you're in the middle
of winter and don't want to go outside, just
place the marshmallows on a cookie sheet and put
them in the oven for a few minutes until they
puff and start to brown (for real fast, under the
broiler).  Of course you lose the outdoors and
stick flavor of the camping kind, but they do
tide you over.  LOL

Also, if you can buy Golden Grahams cereal, you
can make a s'more dessert/cookie which is
actually quite good, if you take the word of my
husband's 40+ shipmates who kept requesting I
make these for them.

Lynn
(waving hi, promising an intro post soon)

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From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Mon May 12 09:55:22 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 02:55:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] re:  Jobs and Work
In-Reply-To: <b9n17e+sups@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030512095522.77496.qmail@web21205.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" > 
> And despite all that, I dream of winning
> multi-millions of dollars in 
> the lottery (for which I don't buy tickets) so
> I could quit the job 
> and dedicate ALL my time to doing whatever I
> want, starting with 
> sleeping twelve hours a day, and then reading a
> great deal of HP 
> fanfic for which I currently have no time.
> 
> Somewhere I got the impression that the "mommy
> track" in law firms 
> is for two mommies who happen to both be
> well-qualified lawyers to 
> team up to share one job, so each one only has
> to work 40 hours a 
> week, but each only gets half the pay and half
> the benefits and no 
> chance of making partner.

Lynn:

Rita, you and I have the same dream except we do
buy one ticket a month for the national lottery
here in Holland.  We keep winning enough to pay
for the ticket we buy (it's about $15 per month)
plus a bit extra (maybe about $5 every month or
two) so we just keep letting it ride, who knows.

When I lived in the US, I was a legal secretary
for more years than I care to remember.  We had a
few female lawyers who tried to work part-time
after becoming mommies and it just didn't work. 
Every single one of them ended up having to quit
as the pressure to stay longer hours mounted. 
Eventually some women lawyers got together and
opened their own firm that was much more friendly
to that type of working schedule.  Others went
into corporate work where regular hours were
guaranteed.   I'll never forget the remark of one
male partner who complained about one female
lawyer who needed to leave work on time every day
to pick her child up from day care.  He said he
never had a problem having kids and still working
late and didn't see why she was having a problem.
 As for half pay, half benefits and no partner,
at our firm it was half pay, no benefits and you
stopped your seniority for partnership while
working part-time but you could start again once
you started working full-time.

Lynn

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From macloudt at hotmail.com  Mon May 12 14:22:15 2003
From: macloudt at hotmail.com (Mary Ann)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 14:22:15 -0000
Subject: S'mores
In-Reply-To: <b9mvvp+jjan@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9oamn+kepj@eGroups.com>

Anne U wrote:

> S'mores are a concoction best made over a camp fire. Basically you 
> take a thin slab of chocolate and a roasted marshmallow and squash 
> them together between 2 graham crackers. YUMMMY! We had S'mores 
last 
> weekend at a kids' overnight at my church.

The British equivalent of graham crackers is the digestive biscuit, 
so if you want to make s'mores here you make sure you buy the 
digestives with chocolate on one side.  Heavenly.

We made them at Rainbows (5-7 year old Girl Guides) one evening, 
where, under strict adult supervision, each girl had a turn melting 
her marshmallow over a candle.  Something tells me that wouldn't be 
covered by the hall's fire insurance, but never mind. ;)

Mary Ann
(who can happily eat herself sick on toasted marshmallows)




From erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com  Mon May 12 15:32:40 2003
From: erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com (erisedstraeh2002)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 15:32:40 -0000
Subject: Were All Hogwarts Ghosts Once Wizards? (WAS: Canon Wizard Cards?)
In-Reply-To: <b9hf0s+t4mk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9oeqo+sq97@eGroups.com>

First Ali wrote:

> Perhaps Bowman Wright was the son of Sir Nearly Headless Nick - and 
> Nick was beheaded for his fling with a witch?

Then I responded:

> But the card says that Wright was the son of a Muggle father, so 
> that would mean Nick was a Muggle...I always assumed the Hogwarts 
> ghosts were once wizards, but perhaps that is an incorrect 
> assumption?? 

Now me again:

This discussion has peaked my interest in whether or not all of the 
Hogwarts ghosts were once witches or wizards.  This really isn't 
specified in canon; one presumes Professor Binns was once a wizard, 
since he taught at Hogwarts before he died, but even that conclusion 
is someone speculative, since he teaches History of Magic rather than 
a wizarding art (such as Potions or Transfiguration).

There is this interesting interchange from a February 2000 Scholastic 
interview:

Q: "What makes some witches/wizards become ghosts after they die and 
some not?"

JKR:  "You don't really find that out until Book VII, but I can say 
that the happiest people do not become ghosts. As you might guess, 
Moaning Myrtle!"

and the link:
http://www.scholastic.com/harrypotter/author/transcript1.htm

The questioner presumes that all ghosts in JKR's world were once 
witches or wizards, and JKR does not correct him/her.  Once again, 
this is not a conclusive determination - I guess we'll have to wait 
until Book VII to find out for sure :(

Rhiannon the Raven-Slyth noted:

> And yet, Nick WAS Petrified in CoS. Of course, we aren't sure if 
> the basilisk could Petrify anyone and just happened to come across 
> the muggle-borns, but certainly Nick's Petrification /could/ 
> support the theory that he was at least muggle-born if not a muggle 
> proper.

Me again:

I was under the impression that Nick just got in the way - that the 
Basilisk was aiming for Justin, but hit Nick by accident.  The 
Basilisk's goal was to kill, so since Nick was already dead, 
presumably the Basilisk wouldn't have bothered with him.  Nick also 
isn't mentioned by Riddle when he tells Harry in the Chamber: "She 
[Ginny] set the serpent of Slytherin on four Mudbloods, and the 
Squib's cat" (CoS, Ch. 17).  The four Mudbloods are Colin, Justin, 
Penelope and Hermione.  While even Mrs. Norris is mentioned, Nick is 
not.  So I don't believe Nick was a deliberate target.

~Phyllis




From erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com  Mon May 12 15:47:12 2003
From: erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com (erisedstraeh2002)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 15:47:12 -0000
Subject: Bowman Wright (WAS: Treating Chocolate Frog Wizard Cards as Canon?)
In-Reply-To: <b9i2ek+ss4u@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9ofm0+4p20@eGroups.com>

Barb wrote:
 
> There's quite a lot more about this, but it's possible that there 
> isn't anything on this card (I haven't seen them) that isn't in 
> Quidditch Through the Ages, which, as it is authored by JKR, is 
> accepted as canon. 

Now me:

I re-reviewed QTTA, and find it interesting that Bowman Wright's 1492 
birthday (and 1560 year of death) as well as his parentage are *not* 
noted in the book.  So these "facts" are only found on the card.  
It's also interesting to me that the card doesn't mention that Wright 
was from Godric's Hollow.

Barb again:

> If Wright does in fact turn out to be an ancestor of Harry's, I 
> find it interesting that his surname means someone who makes 
> something (used in combination with other things frequently, such 
> as boatwright or cartwright).  A 'potter' is also a person who 
> makes things--pots.  

Me again:

Oooh - good one!  Also, I find it interesting that "bowman" can mean 
either an archer or a boatman.

~Phyllis




From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Mon May 12 16:40:25 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 09:40:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Introduction
Message-ID: <20030512164025.71174.qmail@web21201.mail.yahoo.com>

Sorry, no cute introduction things from me, I
can't dance and if I tried singing you'd all be
reminded of what Fred said Percy sounds like
singing in the shower.

I'm Lynn, a 44 year old American who is married
to a 49 year old Dutch guy and we have a 4 year
old daughter.  We are currently living in the
Netherlands where my husband is in the Dutch Navy
and as of July 1st we'll be moving to England
where he has been posted for the next 3 years.

The first time I got interested in Harry Potter
was when I saw the PS movie at my sister-in-law's
house.  I thought it was cute and my daughter
liked the movie so I figured I'd get the book for
her.  My old boss from the US kept telling me I
should get the books for my daughter as he was
reading them to his kids and even his youngest
one, who was 5, liked the books.

We went to the bookstore and they only had PoA
and GoF in the english version, so I read those
first.  When PS and CoS was back in stock, I got
those as well.

PoA kept me interested in reading and GoF really
got me hooked.  I have since gotten 6 other
adults hooked on the books.  I am trying to read
PS to my daughter but she likes the movies
better.  She has other preferences for her
reading material at the moment.

Oh, and since I've been out of college for 26
years, I don't have any exams and I happen to
love s'mores.  Thanks to whomever for the tip of
what biscuits to use for them in England. 8)

I look forward to chatting with all of you.

Lynn

=====
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From selene at earthlink.net  Mon May 12 16:49:40 2003
From: selene at earthlink.net (Susan Fox-Davis)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 09:49:40 -0700
Subject: Muggle Wars and the Wizarding World, was OT: Teaching to the test
Message-ID: <3EBFD0A4.A9F592F4@earthlink.net>

Alex Fox [a kinsman perhaps?] wrote:

>What do the kids at Hogwarts know about Muggle wars, I wonder? Surely
>the effects of the two World Wars had an effect on all things within
>the confines of the British shores? Muggle OR WW.

I have often wondered that myself.  I'm sure every wizard who could got
out of London during the Blitz, but what of Platform 9 ?  Did Kings
Cross take a hit during WWII?  It would certainly be a likely target by
German bombers trying to disrupt important transportation.

Maybe Hogwarts acted as temporary lodgings for wizards of all ages who
needed to get out of the cities during WWII, the same way that large
Muggle houses and castles took in city children.  [See THE LION, THE
WITCH AND THE WARDROBE first couple chapters for more on this.]  This
may explain the large unexplored indoor areas of Hogwarts.

There have always been rumors of the occultists of Britain working for
the protection of its shores and people from outside invasion. [See
LAMMAS NIGHT by Katherine Kurtz for a fictionalization of this longtime
legend.]  So, how does this translate into the WW?  Did the British and
German wizards cancel each other out through the long World Wars?

Susan Fox-Davis




From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Mon May 12 17:35:23 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 10:35:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Muggle Wars and the Wizarding World, was OT: Teaching to the test
In-Reply-To: <3EBFD0A4.A9F592F4@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20030512173523.58776.qmail@web21202.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Susan wrote:
> So, how does this translate into the
> WW?  Did the British and
> German wizards cancel each other out through
> the long World Wars?


Lynn:

On Dumbledore's Chocolate Frog card it says that
he defeated the dark wizard Grindelwald in 1945. 
This suggests that perhaps there was a Muggle and
WW war going on at the same time.  It may very
well be that Grindelwald was on the German side
while Dumbledore was on the English side during
WWII.  We may find at another time that there was
another dark wizard defeated that coincides with
WWI.

Lynn

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From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon May 12 17:51:35 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 17:51:35 -0000
Subject: Muggle Wars and the Wizarding World, was OT: Teaching to the test
In-Reply-To: <20030512173523.58776.qmail@web21202.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b9omv7+npcg@eGroups.com>

> Lynn wrote:
> 
> On Dumbledore's Chocolate Frog card it says that
> he defeated the dark wizard Grindelwald in 1945. 
> This suggests that perhaps there was a Muggle and
> WW war going on at the same time.  It may very
> well be that Grindelwald was on the German side
> while Dumbledore was on the English side during
> WWII.

That doesn't seem quite right to me.  Would wizards be taking sides 
in a Muggle war?  It seems more plausible that Grindelwald would be 
stirring up war, perhaps to try to reduce the Muggle population on 
both sides, and Dumbledore to stop it.  Even WWII wasn't a struggle 
between Good and Evil.

That wouldn't necessarily make Hitler equivalent to Churchill or 
Roosevelt - just that he was more amenable to being led by Dark Arts

David, hoping JKR doesn't go there




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Mon May 12 19:22:54 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 19:22:54 -0000
Subject: Jobs and Work
In-Reply-To: <b9n17e+sups@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9osae+85uj@eGroups.com>

Rita wrote:

>The obsolete job in question is as a COBOL pgmmer at MTA ... 

What's MTA?

Your job sounds cool.  I love a job with an ignore-able dress code.  
I live like Mr. Rogers:  as soon as I get home, I take the stockings 
and earrings off and pull jeans and sweater and woolly socks on 
(barefeet now that it's warm enough . . . ahhhhhhh).  And although I 
dress up for work, I am constantly grateful that I never have to wear 
a suit.  I hate them.

I suggested:

> << I wonder what would happen, Cindy, if you applied for one of 
> those interesting, overly-demanding jobs and informed them, during 
> the interview, that you plan to work an average of 40 hours a week 
> in order to take care of yourself, sustain a healthy family life, 
> and Maybe they wouldn't hire you; or maybe they'd respect it. (Most 
> likely they would hire you and then try to pressure you into 
working 
> 60 hours/week <g>. Good luck!) >>

Rita wrote:
 
> Somewhere I got the impression that the "mommy track" in law firms 
> is for two mommies who happen to both be well-qualified lawyers to 
> team up to share one job, so each one only has to work 40 hours a 
> week, but each only gets half the pay and half the benefits and no 
> chance of making partner.

Law firms?  I was assuming that since Cindy was referring to 
*interesting* jobs, she didn't mean the ones in law firms.  ;-)  

> Fifteen or twenty years ago, I read the book again (it was very 
thick 
> by then) and once again it plunged me into despair. The 
descriptions 
> of all the constant labor and drudgery and networking and 
marketting 
> that must be done in order to catch a job made me believe that I 
would 
> NEVER get a job 

LOL!  Yes, it does make it sound very daunting.  It isn't really 
nearly that difficult most of the time.  I figure the book has a 
gazillion ideas about how to maximize your chances, and if you do 5% 
of them you should be on the right track while also getting some 
sleep.

Amy Z
who did a job search this year and doesn't even want to know how many 
hours she spent on it, but a lot of them were an awful lot of fun




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Mon May 12 19:41:32 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 12 May 2003 19:41:32 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter 
Message-ID: <1052768492.226.19674.w24@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-OTChatter group:

Who actually liked Alan Rickman as 
Professor Snape? 

  o I did! He was Severus Snape through and through 
  o You must be joking... Alan Rickman is butters. 100% U-G-L-Y 
  o He's ok, but he can't act 
  o He's not ugly! Where was the sexiness that we know and love though?! 
  o I don't like Snape, so I really don't care. Ha ha ha, you stupid mutha-fckr! 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=1092350  

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 







From sophiamcl at hotmail.com  Mon May 12 19:47:44 2003
From: sophiamcl at hotmail.com (sophiamcl)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 19:47:44 -0000
Subject: No. 35
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20030510213925.0098bad0@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <b9otp0+eest@eGroups.com>

Richard wrote:
...Channel Four are showing a hight-hearted 
> programme of "The Hundred Worst Britons" (based on a 
survey run through 
> their web site a while ago). Guess who's at Number 35? None 
other but a 
> certain fictional teenage wizard!

> The reasons were particularly stupid, from "encouraging 
witchcraft" to a 
> film reviewer I've never heard of complaining that he couldn't 
watch the 
> whole of the first movie in peace because of the kids in the 
audience...

I think it's quite funny that he's even on the list. Not being a brit 
myself, I didn't recognize all the names, but I still got the 
impression that Harry was the only fictional character on the list. 
If so, isn't it a hoot? Talk about permeating the national 
consciousness... I love that boy.

Sophia




From gwendolyngrace at yahoo.com  Mon May 12 20:08:38 2003
From: gwendolyngrace at yahoo.com (Gwen)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 13:08:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Nimbus - 2003 Deadlines for May 15
Message-ID: <20030512200838.58751.qmail@web13501.mail.yahoo.com>

This is a reminder that our Art Contest and the
current Registration Rate ($149.75) both have
*deadlines* on May 15. If you want to register at the
current rate, you *must* do so and pay via credit card
or PayPal in the next 3 days.

To register go here:

http://www.hp2003.org/nimbusregister.html

Here's a forwarded announcement about the Art Contest:

Nimbus - 2003 T-shirt and Program Cover Art Contest

Nimbus - 2003, the first every Harry Potter inspired
educational 
symposium and fan convention, invites all artists who
are fans of the 
series to enter art for consideration for the
Symposium's official T-
shirt and Program Cover art.

For more information about Nimbus - 2003 visit:

www.hp2003.org

For specific contest guidelines visit:

http://www.livejournal.com/community/hp_orlando

Just scroll down to the "April 10, 2003 Official
Artwork Contest" 
entry for full details on art specs. 

One extra important detail on art specifications is
that we ask all 
artists to notice that the name of the event "Nimbus -
2003" must 
contain the dash for copyright purposes.

Good luck! The Nimbus - 2003 Ministry of Magic looks
forward to being 
amazed by your creations.


More Nimbus - 2003 announcements coming soon... only 8
1/2 weeks to go!



=====
Bring Your Own Broom to Nimbus - 2003!
http://www.hp2003.org/

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The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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From cindysphinx at comcast.net  Mon May 12 20:23:21 2003
From: cindysphinx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 20:23:21 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter
In-Reply-To: <1052768492.226.19674.w24@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9ovrp+or8j@eGroups.com>

>   o I don't like Snape, so I really don't care. Ha ha ha, you 
stupid mutha-fckr! 

Heh, heh.

Is there, um, any chance that the poll could be re-written to be a 
bit more, um, dignified?

Just a thought.

Cindy




From bowlwoman at yahoo.com  Mon May 12 20:27:56 2003
From: bowlwoman at yahoo.com (bowlwoman)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 20:27:56 -0000
Subject: some quiz fun
Message-ID: <b9p04c+e3ut@eGroups.com>

A friend of mine sent me a couple of these quizzes and they were good 
for a half hour or so of time wasting.  Some are directly related to 
HP and some are from the fantasy genre in general.

Check them out:

Which Dumbledore are you?
http://quizilla.com/users/scheherezhad/quizzes/Which%20Dumbledore%
20Are%20You%3F/

What mythical beast are you?
http://quizilla.com/users/laur/quizzes/What%20mythical%20beast%20are%
20you%3F/

Which wand will yours be?
http://quizilla.com/users/Serpentina666/quizzes/Which%20wand%20will%
20yours%20be%3F/

Which Harry Potter professor are you?
http://quizilla.com/users/ArtemisRaven/quizzes/Which%20Harry%20potter%
20Professor%20Are%20you%3F/

What fantasy movie are you?
http://quizilla.com/users/blackophelia/quizzes/What%20fantasy%20movie%
20are%20you%3F/


If you go to the main site (quizilla.com), you can pretty much find 
quizzes on any topic under the sun.  Just so you know, Xander is my 
male Buffy soul mate and I am NOT Filipino.  :)

Enjoy!

bowlwoman




From cindysphinx at comcast.net  Mon May 12 20:31:09 2003
From: cindysphinx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 20:31:09 -0000
Subject: Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
Message-ID: <b9p0ad+orgs@eGroups.com>

Hi,

Maybe I'm weird or something, but I just *love* to read the warnings 
they put in new products you buy.  I cannot wait to tear open the 
package and find out how *not* to use the product.  I always find 
myself wondering who on earth is so dumb that they need the warning 
being given.

I just bought a "flat iron."  This is an electrical device for 
straightening one's hair to achieve the movie star look that is so 
popular these days.  Or, at least, that's what they told me when I 
bought the thing.  ;-)

It heats to a maximum of 200 degrees, and the heating surface is a 
rectangle about 2.5 inches by 5 inches.  It comes with two warnings 
of interest.  One is in the instructions, and the other was affixed 
to the device itself with a swing tag.  The warning is:

"WARNING:  Do not place device in contact with your eye."  There is 
a picture of an eye with a sketch of the device, and a red 
circle/line thing cautioning against sticking this scalding device 
in your eye, I guess.

Uh, OK.  Got it.  :-D

Is it just the U.S. that has gone warning-crazy, or is this also the 
case in other countries?

Cindy





From cristina_angelo at yahoo.com  Mon May 12 20:50:56 2003
From: cristina_angelo at yahoo.com (Cristina Rebelo Angelo)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 22:50:56 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
In-Reply-To: <b9p0ad+orgs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <BFECIODBAEHNLMBKGOGJAELGCFAA.cristina_angelo@yahoo.com>

Does it mean then, since they don't explicitly mention it, that it is okay
to place device in contact with other bodily parts (for instance, to
straighten our wrinkly skin)? And can we use it as a toy if we're kids
("wow, just look at the really neat Lumus trick I can do with my new
wand!")?

Just wondering. From the top of my mind.



**************************
Cristina Rebelo ?ngelo

Any attached file not mentioned in the body of the message may be a virus;
if present, delete it for the sake of your computer, and inform the sender.
Thank you.

"Quand on n'a que l'amour/ Pour tracer un chemin/ Et forcer le destin/ A
chaque carrefour
Quand on n'a que l'amour/ Pour parler aux canons/ Et rien qu'une chanson/
Pour coinvancre un tambour
Alors sans avoir rien/ Que la force d'aimer/ Nous aurons dans nos mains/
Amis le monde entier"
J.Brel 1956

ICQ 106.255.886
HPGCv1 a31 e++ x+ -- z+++ A27 Rhp HPa S+++ Mo HaP++ HG++ RW++ AD++ RH+++ VK&
NhN& SB& DM--- O++ F sfD
  -----Message d'origine-----
  De : Cindy C. [mailto:cindysphinx at comcast.net]
  Envoy? : lundi 12 mai 2003 22:31
  ? : HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
  Objet : [HPFGU-OTChatter] Product Warnings Just Kill Me!


  Hi,

  Maybe I'm weird or something, but I just *love* to read the warnings
  they put in new products you buy.  I cannot wait to tear open the
  package and find out how *not* to use the product.  I always find
  myself wondering who on earth is so dumb that they need the warning
  being given.

  I just bought a "flat iron."  This is an electrical device for
  straightening one's hair to achieve the movie star look that is so
  popular these days.  Or, at least, that's what they told me when I
  bought the thing.  ;-)

  It heats to a maximum of 200 degrees, and the heating surface is a
  rectangle about 2.5 inches by 5 inches.  It comes with two warnings
  of interest.  One is in the instructions, and the other was affixed
  to the device itself with a swing tag.  The warning is:

  "WARNING:  Do not place device in contact with your eye."  There is
  a picture of an eye with a sketch of the device, and a red
  circle/line thing cautioning against sticking this scalding device
  in your eye, I guess.

  Uh, OK.  Got it.  :-D

  Is it just the U.S. that has gone warning-crazy, or is this also the
  case in other countries?

  Cindy



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From bowlwoman at yahoo.com  Mon May 12 20:36:58 2003
From: bowlwoman at yahoo.com (bowlwoman)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 20:36:58 -0000
Subject: Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
In-Reply-To: <b9p0ad+orgs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9p0la+k7vs@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." <cindysphinx at c...> 
wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Maybe I'm weird or something, but I just *love* to read the 
warnings 
> they put in new products you buy.  I cannot wait to tear open the 
> package and find out how *not* to use the product.  I always find 
> myself wondering who on earth is so dumb that they need the warning 
> being given.
> 
> I just bought a "flat iron."  This is an electrical device for 
> straightening one's hair to achieve the movie star look that is so 
> popular these days.  Or, at least, that's what they told me when I 
> bought the thing.  ;-)
> 
> It heats to a maximum of 200 degrees, and the heating surface is a 
> rectangle about 2.5 inches by 5 inches.  It comes with two warnings 
> of interest.  One is in the instructions, and the other was affixed 
> to the device itself with a swing tag.  The warning is:
> 
> "WARNING:  Do not place device in contact with your eye."  There is 
> a picture of an eye with a sketch of the device, and a red 
> circle/line thing cautioning against sticking this scalding device 
> in your eye, I guess.
> 
> Uh, OK.  Got it.  :-D
> 
> Is it just the U.S. that has gone warning-crazy, or is this also 
the 
> case in other countries?
> 

My favorites are the drug company commercials touting a "new wonder 
drug" for whatever is the in vogue ailment.  I know they have to list 
the side effects, but some of the side effects are worse than the 
disease/problem itself.

May cause stomach irritation, cirrhosis of the liver, your toenails 
to turn blue and possibly even asphyxiation.  But your allergies will 
go away!

bowlwoman





From erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com  Mon May 12 21:23:28 2003
From: erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com (erisedstraeh2002)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 21:23:28 -0000
Subject: Dutch Version of OoP Already Out?
Message-ID: <b9p3cg+ctt7@eGroups.com>

There is an article from the Pakistan Daily Times that (in addition 
to complaining mightily about the millions JKR has earned) states:

"And there will doubtless be many more millions to come in the months 
ahead from the sales and movie rights of her fifth Harry Potter book, 
which is due to hit the stands of the English-speaking world in June, 
though a Dutch-language version of the book came out a couple of 
months ago."

Here's the link:
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_12-5-2003_pg3_7

Is it true that a Dutch version of OoP came out months ago?  I've 
never heard this before.  Although, in addition to complaining about 
JKR's (IMO) well-earned riches, author Kaleem Omar alternates between 
referring to JKR as "Rowling" and "Rowland," so I'm not sure how much 
to trust the veracity of the statements he makes.

~Phyllis




From ibotsjfvxfst at yahoo.co.uk  Mon May 12 21:43:31 2003
From: ibotsjfvxfst at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Ivan=20Vablatsky?=)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 22:43:31 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Dutch Version of OoP Already Out?
In-Reply-To: <b9p3cg+ctt7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030512214331.53848.qmail@web21510.mail.yahoo.com>

As a Dutch resident I can assure this is absolute bull. We Dutchmen have reserved June 21st as a totally "do not disturb" day like the rest of the world.  How could such a story possibly be true? Dr Rowling herself only finished it in January. How could it get translated and printed before the English version? A thick book like OoP takes MONTHS to translate. Then the same process has to happen as in the UK and the USA - editing, proofreading, printing, binding, distribution - it just couldn't be done - not mentioning the fact that Dr Rowling has issued an injunction against anyone disclosing the contents of OoP.  The only thing that's happened in the Netherlands that has anything remotely to do with HP is the fact that the court has stopped a publisher from selling Tanya Grotter - a Russian satyre on HP. Hans 

erisedstraeh2002 <erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com> wrote:There is an article from the Pakistan Daily Times that (in addition 
to complaining mightily about the millions JKR has earned) states:

"And there will doubtless be many more millions to come in the months 
ahead from the sales and movie rights of her fifth Harry Potter book, 
which is due to hit the stands of the English-speaking world in June, 
though a Dutch-language version of the book came out a couple of 
months ago."

Here's the link:
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_12-5-2003_pg3_7

Is it true that a Dutch version of OoP came out months ago?  I've 
never heard this before.  Although, in addition to complaining about 
JKR's (IMO) well-earned riches, author Kaleem Omar alternates between 
referring to JKR as "Rowling" and "Rowland," so I'm not sure how much 
to trust the veracity of the statements he makes.

~Phyllis


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From heidit at netbox.com  Mon May 12 21:48:40 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 17:48:40 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Dutch Version of OoP Already Out?
Message-ID: <mailman.44.1576049046.5361.hpfgu-otchatter@archive.hpfgu.org>

Someone seems to have confused the Dutch version of Tanya Grotter (which was translated from Russian, and which purports to be a parody) with Order of the Phoenix. 

Wow, that would now be a fun bit of "likelihood of confusion" evidence for jkr's team to use in court!

Heidi, giving no legal advice and only a smidge of ip-law analysis
-----Original Message-----
From: "erisedstraeh2002" <erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 21:23:28 
To:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Dutch Version of OoP Already Out?

Real-To:  "erisedstraeh2002" <erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com>

There is an article from the Pakistan Daily Times that (in addition 
to complaining mightily about the millions JKR has earned) states:

"And there will doubtless be many more millions to come in the months 
ahead from the sales and movie rights of her fifth Harry Potter book, 
which is due to hit the stands of the English-speaking world in June, 
though a Dutch-language version of the book came out a couple of 
months ago."

Here's the link:
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_12-5-2003_pg3_7

Is it true that a Dutch version of OoP came out months ago?  I've 
never heard this before.  Although, in addition to complaining about 
JKR's (IMO) well-earned riches, author Kaleem Omar alternates between 
referring to JKR as "Rowling" and "Rowland," so I'm not sure how much 
to trust the veracity of the statements he makes.

~Phyllis



________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/

Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying!

Is your message...
An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
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From pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk  Mon May 12 22:12:33 2003
From: pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk (bluesqueak)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 22:12:33 -0000
Subject: Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
In-Reply-To: <b9p0ad+orgs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9p68h+99en@eGroups.com>

  Got it.  :-D
> 
> Is it just the U.S. that has gone warning-crazy, or is this also 
> the case in other countries?
> 
> Cindy

It's the same in other countries. My favourite in the UK is the 
(legally required) warning on packets of peanuts, mixed nuts and 
fruit and nut chocolate:

"Packed in an environment where nuts may be present."

Err, yeah.

Pip




From risako at nexusanime.com  Mon May 12 22:50:00 2003
From: risako at nexusanime.com (Melissa McCarthy)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 19:50:00 -0300
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
References: <b9p68h+99en@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001701c318d8$d2a5f540$1d836395@vaio>

> It's the same in other countries. My favourite in the UK is the
> (legally required) warning on packets of peanuts, mixed nuts and
> fruit and nut chocolate:
>
> "Packed in an environment where nuts may be present."
>
> Err, yeah.
>
> Pip

Which reminds me, on a plane trip a year ago, I was given a little package
of Salted Peanuts with the label "WARNING: May contain peanuts."  May?!

Melissa, hoping one-liners are allowed on OTChatter






From Chasewildstar at attbi.com  Mon May 12 22:29:33 2003
From: Chasewildstar at attbi.com (Chase Wildstar)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 18:29:33 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
References: <b9p0ad+orgs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <019301c318d5$f68703d0$9c01f50c@mac>

They should all come with this warning:
"WARNING -- This device not intended to be used by stupid people."



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cindy C." <cindysphinx at comcast.net>
To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 4:31 PM
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Product Warnings Just Kill Me!


> Hi,
>
> Maybe I'm weird or something, but I just *love* to read the warnings
> they put in new products you buy.  I cannot wait to tear open the
> package and find out how *not* to use the product.  I always find
> myself wondering who on earth is so dumb that they need the warning
> being given.
>
> I just bought a "flat iron."  This is an electrical device for
> straightening one's hair to achieve the movie star look that is so
> popular these days.  Or, at least, that's what they told me when I
> bought the thing.  ;-)
>
> It heats to a maximum of 200 degrees, and the heating surface is a
> rectangle about 2.5 inches by 5 inches.  It comes with two warnings
> of interest.  One is in the instructions, and the other was affixed
> to the device itself with a swing tag.  The warning is:
>
> "WARNING:  Do not place device in contact with your eye."  There is
> a picture of an eye with a sketch of the device, and a red
> circle/line thing cautioning against sticking this scalding device
> in your eye, I guess.
>
> Uh, OK.  Got it.  :-D
>
> Is it just the U.S. that has gone warning-crazy, or is this also the
> case in other countries?
>
> Cindy
>
>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material
from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- 
MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
> Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>




From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Mon May 12 23:12:05 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 16:12:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Muggle Wars and the Wizarding World, was OT: Teaching to the test
In-Reply-To: <b9omv7+npcg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030512231205.78321.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com>


--- David wrote:
> That doesn't seem quite right to me.  Would
> wizards be taking sides 
> in a Muggle war?  It seems more plausible that
> Grindelwald would be 
> stirring up war, perhaps to try to reduce the
> Muggle population on 
> both sides, and Dumbledore to stop it.  Even
> WWII wasn't a struggle 
> between Good and Evil.


Lynn:

One idea that had popped into my head when there
was a discussion about the Imperious Curse and if
it worked on Muggles is that perhaps Grindelwald
was indeed directing things for WWII.  Or, it may
be that a good/evil WW battle was taking place
during it.  It could make sense when the Muggle
world is in such disarray that a dark wizard
would rise up and try to take over the wizard
world.  Since we don't know a whole lot about the
international relations between the different
areas in the wizarding world, it may be that one
group got together to try to take over another
group mirroring the alliances in WWII.  We know
the different countries have their own Quidditch
teams so it is conceivable.

Whatever happened, it just seems a bit too
coincidental to me that the year for the defeat
was 1945 and I hope we learn more about it at
some point.

Lynn

=====
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cnnworldnewsq-a

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From rvotaw at i-55.com  Tue May 13 00:03:11 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 19:03:11 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] OT: Teaching to the test
References: <b9ne1a+cu41@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <009001c318e3$0b9c47a0$529fcdd1@RVotaw>

Alex Fox wrote:

> GoodGrief! Some one just popped up on a group and said that Abraham 
> Lincoln was really great in the Declaration Of Independance...What 
> the heck are they teaching kids these days? I actually had to argue 
> with this kid about the fact that he was born much later, Civil War 
> later! He wouldn't believe me! He thought the Civil War happened in 
> the 1900's! Till other people also corrected him! These kids are the 
> future? We are SO doomed.

Oh, don't even get me started. :)  You think that's bad?  Well, I teach first grade but I teach in an after school program for 4th through 6th graders.  A couple of months ago we were working on Patriotic powerpoint presentations.  Of course I had one done to show them, which mostly consists of famous US landmarks, US flags, etc.  Once they were on internet a few of them had trouble thinking of what they could type in to search for their pictures to put in the presentations.  So I'd give them hints about it, and most of them did okay from there.  A few times I had to get as obvious as asking "What country do you live in?"  The responses to that question floored me.  At least five different people (in different groups) could not tell me the name of their country unless I started reciting the pledge and they could join in and figure it out.  I promise I'm not making that up either.

Most of my first graders can tell you their country, and today we've been working on identifying our state on a US map.  I gave them a quiz on it by giving them a blank map and asking them to color Louisiana.  They all got it, except for one.  She colored Texas.  Okay, it's next door, but it sure isn't shaped like a boot!!!

Richelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 00:48:48 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 17:48:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
In-Reply-To: <b9p0ad+orgs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030513004848.81596.qmail@web21205.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Cindy wrote:
> Is it just the U.S. that has gone
> warning-crazy, or is this also the 
> case in other countries?

Lynn:

I've seen strange warning labels here in the
Netherlands as well, but that may be US influence
since certain items made by a company go to many
countries and warnings written for one are just
translated for the others.

The reason the US is warning-crazy is due to the
number of really stupid people who do stupid
things and, rather than accept the consequences
of their stupidity, expect the companies to pay
for the consequences instead.  Then you have
stupid juries or judges who buy into that type of
thinking.  Manufacturers are trying to protect
themselves from expensive trials and judgments
and I can't blame them.

I remember one case I worked on where a guy
disregarded a bright orange warning label, about
the size of a half a sheet of paper, that was
right at the opening of a piece of machinery that
specifically said that if the machine jammed, to
turn off the machine before attempting to unjam
the machine.  It continue to say that failure to
do so could result in physical injury.  Even
people with glasses could have read this label
without their glasses.  Of course, some guy knew
better than the warning and stuck his hand in and
ended up getting injured.  So, why the suit when
the warning was right under his nose?  The
argument was that since society is so used to
seeing the warning labels and ignorning them, the
manufacturer should have made the warning label
much bigger and more emphatic.  A judge bought
the argument and the case actually went to trial.
 The jury itself found the man 51% responsible
for the accident and the manufacturer 49%
responsible.

And that's why the US is warning-crazy.

Lynn

=====
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cnnworldnewsq-a

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From dradamsapple at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 01:07:56 2003
From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 01:07:56 -0000
Subject: Dutch Version of OoP Already Out?
In-Reply-To: <20030512214331.53848.qmail@web21510.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b9pghc+nd50@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Ivan Vablatsky 
<ibotsjfvxfst at y...> wrote:

>>snip<<
>Dr Rowling herself only finished it in January.

>>snip<<
> it just couldn't be done - not mentioning the fact that Dr Rowling 
has issued an injunction against anyone disclosing the contents of 
OoP.  
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Er, Ivan,

sorry for the interruption, but, when did JKR become "Dr" Rowling?
I know that she is married to a doctor.  Is that where you are 
confused?
Just curious (or anal retentive).

Anna . . .




From dradamsapple at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 01:26:45 2003
From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 01:26:45 -0000
Subject: Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
In-Reply-To: <b9p68h+99en@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9phkl+8ukr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bluesqueak" <pipdowns at e...> 
wrote:
>   Got it.  :-D
> > 
> > Is it just the U.S. that has gone warning-crazy, or is this also 
> > the case in other countries?
> > 
> > Cindy
> 
> It's the same in other countries. My favourite in the UK is the 
> (legally required) warning on packets of peanuts, mixed nuts and 
> fruit and nut chocolate:
> 
> "Packed in an environment where nuts may be present."
> 
> Err, yeah.
> 
> Pip

OOOhh!! Pip!
That line is hysterical! Can I use it at the end of my signature?

And I  would LOVE to copy it and bring it into work! It unfortunately 
described my work situation this past friday!!

And to Lady lindi,

I agree  with you that unfortunately, all the product warnings and 
labels are a result of people who just don't pay attention, or who  
don't want to pay attention.
I was actually thinking of the infamous McDonalds (hot!!) coffee case 
that happened here in the US a few years ago.  That was so silly!

Here's to happy product label reading!


Anna  . . . 
 





From louisa at mishka.fslife.co.uk  Tue May 13 01:28:33 2003
From: louisa at mishka.fslife.co.uk (Louisa Cudahy)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 02:28:33 +0100
Subject: Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
References: <1052786930.1864.41604.m6@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <004a01c318ef$08344700$79994c51@anyuser>

--- "Cindy wrote:
> Is it just the U.S. that has gone
> warning-crazy, or is this also the
> case in other countries?

It's certainly starting to happen here in the UK. My personal favourites are
the little warnings that go with film ratings these days. The CoS one had
"contains mild peril and fantasy spiders" as far as I remember. Very very
funny. And I feel so sorry for all those "gross-out teen rom-coms" that have
the very embarrassing caveat that the film contains "one use of strong
language and mild sex." Oh, I could laugh about those for hours....

Louisa Cudahy
louisa at mishka.fslife.co.uk




From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 01:33:47 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 18:33:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Dutch Version of OoP Already Out?
In-Reply-To: <b9p3cg+ctt7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030513013347.89753.qmail@web21205.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Phyllis wrote:
> Is it true that a Dutch version of OoP came out
> months ago?  

Lynn:

As has been stated, no, the Dutch version of OoP
has not come out and I haven't even heard of a
date for it coming out.  The first none English
version I've heard about is German and it's due
out well after June 21st.

Let me tell you, if there had been a Dutch
version out, even I would have bought it and
struggled through the translation rather than
wait for the english version.  LOL

A question though for those who have read the
books in both english and another language.  How
good has the translation been?  I know that
watching the translations of english-spoken TV
shows or subtitling on DVDs here in the
Netherlands has had me cracking up at times.  So
I wonder if they do book translations a bit more
accurately.  Also, do they make changes to make
it more understandable, such as changing sherbert
lemons to lemon drops as the did in the US
version?

Lynn

=====
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From hp at plum.cream.org  Tue May 13 02:02:24 2003
From: hp at plum.cream.org (GulPlum)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 03:02:24 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
In-Reply-To: <004a01c318ef$08344700$79994c51@anyuser>
References: <1052786930.1864.41604.m6@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20030513023836.00952f00@plum.cream.org>

Louisa Cudahy wrote:

>My personal favourites are the little warnings that go with film ratings 
>these days. The CoS one had "contains mild peril and fantasy spiders" as 
>far as I remember. Very very funny. And I feel so sorry for all those 
>"gross-out teen rom-coms" that have the very embarrassing caveat that the 
>film contains "one use of strong language and mild sex." Oh, I could laugh 
>about those for hours....

I've never seen that one for CoS. I don't mean to question your integrity, 
but I would love to see any item of publicity which included it (other than 
a review).

There is an absolutely valid reason why some films include those warnings 
(technically, they're called "Advisories"). They are part and parcel of the 
relatively new "12A" rating by the British Board of Film Classification. 
This certification was introduced for Spider-Man and has become 
increasingly popular for films which are marketed at children but for one 
reason or another, the certification board considers borderline cases 
between PG ("Parental Guidance recommended, children of any age may be 
admitted") and 12 ("Children under the age of 12 may not be admitted"). 12A 
means that children over the age of 12 may be admitted, but children under 
the age of 12 must be accompanied by a responsible adult.

Those "responsible adults" need information in order to be responsible, and 
so 12A films are released with an advisory statement (hence the "A" after 
the 12) informing them what it is about the film which children may not be 
able to take, or rather their parents may not be prepared to accept on 
their behalf.  The text of the advisory is an integral part of the 
certificate, and all publicity relating to the movie MUST contain the 
advisory's full wording, as established by the BBFC.

To take a few of films on current release which are rated 12A: X-Men 2 
("contains moderate violence"), How To Lose A Guy In 10 Days ("contains 
moderate sex references"), Bulletproof Monk ("contains one use of strong 
language and moderate violence").

CoS was rated PG and therefore had no advisory connected to its 
certificate. I would love to argue the case with anyone who thought it was 
required.

Incidentally, on the original subject, a few web sites with several other 
product warnings:

http://rinkworks.com/said/warnings.shtml
http://home.pacifier.com/~kbarratt/stupid.htm
http://www.sebourn.com/stupid/stprod.html

And someone who thinks that the laws of physics should take product 
warnings to a new level: http://www.laughnet.net/archive/misc/warnings.htm




From mckosvc at bmts.com  Tue May 13 02:44:17 2003
From: mckosvc at bmts.com (ovc88guelph)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 02:44:17 -0000
Subject: Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
In-Reply-To: <b9p0ad+orgs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9pm61+8j09@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." 
<cindysphinx at c...> wrote:
 
> Is it just the U.S. that has gone warning-crazy, or is this also 
the 
> case in other countries?
> 
  Oh, but I love warnings from other countries! I just took the 
chance of waking my 4 year old son up, so that I could copy the 
warning verbatim from his toy. He has a small plastic knight's 
helmet (and shield...and sword). All are impressed the the following:
"CAUTION. The simulated protective device was not a safety device 
and offered no protection. Made in China." I am particularly taken 
with the past tense of this warning! Was it used as prop in, 
say, "Crouching Tiger" and calamity followed?

MMcK.




From mckosvc at bmts.com  Tue May 13 03:02:03 2003
From: mckosvc at bmts.com (ovc88guelph)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 03:02:03 -0000
Subject: Physics humour (was Product label warnings)
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20030513023836.00952f00@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <b9pn7b+f9f1@eGroups.com>

Gulplum said 
> Incidentally, on the original subject, a few web sites with 
several other 
> product warnings:
> 
> http://rinkworks.com/said/warnings.shtml
> http://home.pacifier.com/~kbarratt/stupid.htm
> http://www.sebourn.com/stupid/stprod.html
> 
> And someone who thinks that the laws of physics should take 
product 
> warnings to a new level: 
http://www.laughnet.net/archive/misc/warnings.htm
 
Too good! Several years ago, I bought a brass house plaque as a 
birthday gift for a friend. He is a retired physics teacher and 
notoriously hard to buy for. Not only has he placed it outside his 
front door, he now uses it as an e-mail signature. "Heisenberg may 
have slept here."

MMcK.




From catlady at wicca.net  Tue May 13 03:39:21 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 03:39:21 -0000
Subject: Bowman Wright /World War II /MTA /What Mythical Beast Are You?
Message-ID: <b9ppd9+rni7@eGroups.com>

You people are too interesting! I was supposed to check my laundry 
half an hour ago!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/56967

Phyllis wrote:

<< I re-reviewed QTTA, and find it interesting that Bowman Wright's 
1492 birthday (and 1560 year of death) >>

He died at 68! What happened to those long wizarding lifespans?

Susan Fox-Davis wrote:

<< I'm sure every wizard who could got out of London during the 
Blitz, but what of Platform 9 ?? >>

I've wondered if the wizarding folk could put spells on their houses 
(and on Diagon Alley and Platform 9 3/4 and Hogwarts) that would 
cause bombs falling from the sky to just accidentally miss them. 
Anyway, Diagon Alley and Platform 9 3/4 are inside spaces that are 
bigger inside than outside (like the trunk of Arthur's little car) 
and therefore not exposed to aerial bombardment from normal space.

When I brought this question to the main list (oh, long ago), 
Pip!Squeak pointed out that London evacuee children were housed in 
Every farm and cottage in rural England, and any wizarding rural home 
that was even slightly visible to even a few neighboring Muggles (
and The Burrow was Visible to the Muggle taxi-drivers, even tho' 
distance, hedgerows, and Nothing-Interesting-Here spells kept most 
Muggles from intruding) would have had a lot of explaining to do if 
they WEREN'T housing evacuee children. There's no way they could have 
gone unnoticed if they violated the blackout. And I wonder if they 
struggled under food rationing or, contrariwise, profitted muchly by 
selling excess wizarding foodstuffs to Muggle neighbors at black 
market prices ... that one ties into my larger questions about 
wizarding food supply, like do they have wizarding farmers or buy 
from Muggles, can they multiply their food by magic or turn yuck-o 
turnips into yummygood beefsteak by Transfiguration, and so on.

<< There have always been rumors of the occultists of Britain working 
for the protection of its shores and people from outside invasion. >> 

Not merely rumors: Dion Fortune wrote in at least one of her books of 
spending hours a way in prayerful meditation envisioning the four 
archangels standing guard around the island of Britain and St. George 
on his white horse standing guard above.

David Frankis Stein wrote:

<< That doesn't seem quite right to me.  Would wizards be taking 
sides in a Muggle war?  It seems more plausible that Grindelwald 
would be stirring up war, perhaps to try to reduce the Muggle 
population on both sides, and Dumbledore to stop it.  Even WWII 
wasn't a struggle between Good and Evil. >>

Power-mad Dark Wizards (I assume that the dangerous Dark Wizards are 
all power-mad, but not necessarily all eager to exterminate Muggles) 
might use Muggle kings and armies as their proxy warriors ... my 
fanfic makes a passing reference to the ancient conflict of Merlin 
versus Fernabrant (whom I invented), in which Modred was Fernabrant's 
Muggle protege and Arthur was Merlin's Muggle protege. If Grindel- 
wald's Teutonic-sounding name and the year 1945 hint at a WWII 
connection, he might have built Hitler up from nothing to use his 
Muggles to conquer territory, or found Hitler as a loony Chancellor 
with high Dark potential and struck a deal with him (presumably the 
traditional "I'm the Devil. Give me your eternal soul and I'll make 
you a greater conqueror than Julius Caesar").

However, it is also possible that the Teutonic connection is nothing 
but a feint, and Grindelwald was as British as Fudge and Malfoy, and 
did all his evil deeds on his home island (where homes totally 
destroyed with entire families in them could conveniently be passed 
off as Blitz damage). He might even have been a Hogwarts professor!

Amy Z wrote:

<< What's MTA? >>

Metropolitan Transportation Authority. In this case, LACMTA: Los 
Angeles County MTA. We run busses and a few trains and fund bike 
lanes and street improvements ... 

Bowlwoman wrote:

<< What mythical beast are you?
http://quizilla.com/users/laur/quizzes/What%20mythical%20beast%20are%2
0you%3F/ >> 

This may be the quiz that a bunch of my friends did last year. One 
gay man was labelled an incubus, leading to a long debate about 
whether the essential difference between an incubus and a succubus 
(who are the same demon at different times!) is what sex of person 
they seduce or what sex of person they appear to be. 





From prittylina at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 05:41:42 2003
From: prittylina at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Lina?=)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 06:41:42 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Digest Number 1025
In-Reply-To: <1052742907.1211.44458.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030513054142.18155.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com>

Acire wrote: 

<snip of a bunch of jazz concerning SATs, APs, ELM, EPT>

> Did I miss anything?

We also have the ACT, a six-part examination which is predominately used in the
Southern states. IIRC, it consists of Reading Comprehension, Mathematics,
Science Reasoning, English Grammar (certain parts are repeated, though for the
life of me I can't recall which). The highest possibly score is a 36 for each
section as well as the composite score (which is an average of the other
scores). I believe that northern universities will accept these standalone,
though I cannot be certain as I took the SAT and the ACT. (Thinking of that,
there are also the SAT II tests which are "extra" tests in various subjects --
foreign languages, writing, histories, mathematics, etc. Certain universities
will use them in lieu of placement examinations so that a student could,
perhaps, forgo lower levels of a foreign language, etc.)

> "p.s What are s'mores? They were mentioned in a TBAY post ages ago, by
> Derannimer, I think, and I meant to ask then but I forgot."
> 
> S'mores accompany campfires or beach bonfires. They are composed of graham
> crackers, topped with a piece of chocalate and a roasted marshmallow. They're
> quite good.

And messy. Very messy. I've never been all that fond of s'mores for such a
reason; GORP, on the other hand... yum. :9 (Gorp is a dried fruit/nut/chocolate
mix commonly stuffed into the sacks of girl/boy scouts before going on their
scouting-duties, whatever those may be. They usually would have some left over
the following Monday and would share with the rest of us "poor" non-scouting
souls.) 


Dumbledad wrote: 

> I don't think this confusion has crept in yet but it's worth bearing 
> in mind that the word "school" in the UK usually equates to the 
> words "high school" (or earlier schooling) in the USA, and the 
> word "school" in the USA equates to "college" or "university" in the 
> UK. At least that's my experience.

Not quite, though this is really a dialect thing. I am also from Louisiana
(though from the French-speaking section and I believe [judging from her
address] Richelle is from the Florida parish area?) and, as Richelle wrote, if
I were by home, I would refer to everything as "school" (well, if speaking
English). If I were being specific, I would differentiate them by either their
specific names or else to higher education only as "university." However I have
encounted people here in Boston, Mass (where I currently am an university
student [another dialectal difference -- "college" can be "university" {with a
graduate school, etc.} or "college" {a smaller, yet still large, section of a
university or an institute of higher education for undergraduates only} for
most) who use "school" in reference only to higher education, as well as those
who use it in reference only to primary education (that is elementary school,
high school, etc.). It all depends. 


Lina, who is frustrated daily with dialectal differences and still refers to
carbonated breverages as "cold drink" or "coke" 

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus
For a better Internet experience
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer



From jrpessin at mail.millikin.edu  Tue May 13 06:33:28 2003
From: jrpessin at mail.millikin.edu (Jonathan Pessin)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 01:33:28 -0500
Subject: Jobs and Work
Message-ID: <sec04b72.076@mail.millikin.edu>

Cindy C. wrote:

<< Does *anyone* like their job? What kind of job is it, and why do 
you like it? >>

and later

<<counting a few teachers, an architect and a minister among the 
group, but figuring there must be other occupations out there >>

Hobbit_guy responds:

well, I've been doing a lot of lurking lately, but I just wanted to come out and offer some variety.  I'm currently a first-year college student, which is my "day" job.  I don't really consider that to be my profession, though - I clown on the side.  Clowning's great work.  You get to work with kids (whom I love), you get to goof around and have fun for $50-$100 an hour, and you get to dress up in funny clothes!  and hey, let's face it.  everybody likes to dress up in funny clothes.  o<] : o D

Hobbit_guy, who goes by the name "Knick-Knack" while in costume

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You haven't been getting into the Gaffer's home brew again, have you?"
"No... Well, yes, but that's beside the point."
-Frodo and Bilbo Baggins, Fellowship of the Rings Extended Edition DVD




From tahewitt at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 07:10:08 2003
From: tahewitt at yahoo.com (Tyler Hewitt)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 00:10:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: product warnings
In-Reply-To: <1052786930.1864.41604.m6@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030513071008.20074.qmail@web14201.mail.yahoo.com>

I like the drug commercials that mention 'certain
sexual side effects' among the other symptoms you may
experience from taking the product. Sounds ominous,
but also makes me really curious... 

bowlwoman wrote:

My favorites are the drug company commercials touting
a "new wonder drug" for whatever is the in vogue
ailment.  I know they have to list the side effects,
but some of the side effects are worse than the 
disease/problem itself.

May cause stomach irritation, cirrhosis of the liver,
your toenails to turn blue and possibly even
asphyxiation.  But your allergies will go away!



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 07:11:09 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 00:11:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] re: World War II 
In-Reply-To: <b9ppd9+rni7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030513071109.47147.qmail@web21210.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Rita wrote:

> And I wonder if they 
> struggled under food rationing or,
> contrariwise, profitted muchly by 
> selling excess wizarding foodstuffs to Muggle
> neighbors at black 
> market prices 

Lynn:

Some really good points about what could possibly
have happened in the WW during WWII.  Perhaps
wizard children were sent to those wizarding
families out in the countryside.  Hmmm.

But, it was the food rationing/black market thing
that intrigued me, particularly with a
Malfoy/Weasley connection, not only from a war
standpoint but also a depression standpoint.

Maybe, the Malfoy's made their fortune gouging
starving people on the black market while the
Weasleys used their resources to instead feed and
sustain the Muggles?  It would certainly explain
the enmity between the two families to some
degree.

Lynn

=====
For the international news that's fit to print
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cnnworldnewsq-a

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The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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From ibotsjfvxfst at yahoo.co.uk  Tue May 13 07:17:03 2003
From: ibotsjfvxfst at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Ivan=20Vablatsky?=)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 08:17:03 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Joanne Rowling's Doctorates (was: Dutch Version of OoP Already Out?)
In-Reply-To: <b9pghc+nd50@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030513071703.36057.qmail@web21503.mail.yahoo.com>

Doctor Rowling has two honorary doctorates of letters at British universities. If you wish I can look up which universities. Her title IS Doctor Rowling! And, as I said in a previous email to HPFGU, I feel no one deserves it more than she does, and I will not refer to her as JKR!
 
Hans

dradamsapple <dradamsapple at yahoo.com> wrote:
--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Ivan Vablatsky 
<ibotsjfvxfst at y...> wrote:

>>snip<<
>Dr Rowling herself only finished it in January.

>>snip<<
> it just couldn't be done - not mentioning the fact that Dr Rowling 
has issued an injunction against anyone disclosing the contents of 
OoP.  
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Er, Ivan,

sorry for the interruption, but, when did JKR become "Dr" Rowling?
I know that she is married to a doctor.  Is that where you are 
confused?
Just curious (or anal retentive).

Anna . . .



---------------------------------
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 07:33:27 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 00:33:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Digest Number 1025
In-Reply-To: <20030513054142.18155.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030513073327.50942.qmail@web21205.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Lina wrote:

> Lina, who is frustrated daily with dialectal
> differences and still refers to
> carbonated breverages as "cold drink" or "coke"


Lynn:

Boston, my old stomping grounds!  What Lina?  You
don't order a "tonic" when you're thirsty?  LOL 
I lived in the Boston area for 9 years and found
it much easier to make fun of the differences. 
It really eased the frustration level.

One of my favorite stories of new life in Boston
is when I first got there and started temping at
a law firm.  I was transcribing a very long tape
and the guy kept saying "commer" and I couldn't
figure out what in the world he meant so just
typed commer into the text.  It was when I was
proofreading the thing that I realized that what
he had actually been saying was "comma" and he
was telling where to put the punctuation within
the sentence.  Those living in Boston can
understand just how different the sound of
"commer" is from "comma".  

Just wait though, if you are there long enough
there will be certain words you end up saying
with the Boston accent which really makes your
speech funny.  I've lived in California, Arizona,
Connecticut and Massachusetts and no one can
guess where I'm from since I could change accents
two or three times in a sentence depending on
which words I used.  Now it's even worse.  I'll
pronounce english words with a dutch accent.  LOL
 When I first moved to the Netherlands, everyone
could tell I was American from my speech.  Now
they all ask if I'm from England.  When my
husband's ship was in England for a weekend, he
was asked how an American came to be stationed on
a Dutch ship and in Dutch uniform.

A big thing to remember in Boston is, if there is
an 'er' at the end of a word, such as here,
there, etc., pronounce it as an 'a', such a he-a
or the-a.  And, if there is an 'a' at the end of
a word, such as comma, soda, etc., pronounce it
as an 'er', such a commer, soder.  This is also
the only time you are actually required to
pronounce the letter 'r' as well.

Lynn
(Dear Boston, where asking for a tonic will get
you a soda and where asking for soda will get you
a tonic water.)

=====
For the international news that's fit to print
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cnnworldnewsq-a

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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From Ripleywriter at aol.com  Tue May 13 07:34:12 2003
From: Ripleywriter at aol.com (Ripleywriter at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 03:34:12 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: product warnings
Message-ID: <17a.1aaaa964.2bf1f9f4@aol.com>


I love those drug commercials! I think they're creepy, to advertise 
prescription drugs like that (and I think I would get very annoyed if I were 
a doctor and people came into my office asking for miracle drugs they heard 
about on the tee-vee), especially since it just shows how much healing people 
has become a business that they're advertising prescription drugs on TV.

There's constantly small white print on the screen and they do their damndest 
to make their drugs look romantic and wonderful, with this cheery voice-over 
person and slow-mos of people dancing or "living" in whatever they do, thanks 
to Miracle Drug. I think it'd be funny if instead of those 
trying-to-be-respectful-about-it ads, they advertised Viagra saying: "Go see 
your doctor today and get back in the sack, with Viagra!"  

Melly



From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 07:58:26 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 00:58:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Jobs and Work
In-Reply-To: <sec04b72.076@mail.millikin.edu>
Message-ID: <20030513075826.4076.qmail@web21203.mail.yahoo.com>


> Cindy C. wrote:
> 
> << Does *anyone* like their job? What kind of
> job is it, and why do 
> you like it? >>
> 

Lynn:

Well, my 'job' at this point is Mommy and I
really do like it.  I was informed upon my first
year in the Netherlands that I was unemployable
as I didn't fit into any specific category.  I
was either under or over qualified for the jobs
and so businesses wouldn't hire me.  That was
okay.  I decided that meant I didn't need to
learn any more Dutch than I had to to survive. 
LOL  I've gotten a 4 year rest from working and
I've had fun playing with my daughter.  Now that
she's in school, however, I'm going nuts since it
means I actually have time to do housework, which
I hate.  Good thing I now have packing for
England to keep me occupied and I'm hoping that
I'll be able to find a part-time job during the
time we live there.  I do miss working. 

However, my profession is that of legal
secretary, which I did for a great many years.  I
have to say that whether I liked my job depended
on with whom I worked and what type of law they
practiced.  My favorite by far was my last job, a
law firm in Boston.  While there were times that
the stress and pressure made me wonder what in
the world I was doing the job for, overall, I had
a great boss (he was a partner) who understood
that my life's ambition was not to sit mindlessly
in front of a computer transcribing tapes.  (He
did a lot of employment defense law, which I
adore.)  Instead I got to do research, draft
pleadings, work with the clients, really get
involved with the cases.  He was great at
explaining things and we really worked as a team
rather than lawyer/secretary.  We even had a
running joke going that I had my own 'case', but
that's another story.  During my time working for
him, I also worked with an associate.  I
routinely got the new attorneys to train and
would work with them for a year or two before
getting the next new one.  Most were pretty good
once they realized that a good legal secretary
knew more about the practice of law than they
did.  LOL

Of course, the downside is that there really
isn't a career path.  Once you're working for the
head guy at the firm there's no where else to go
unless you can transition into the administrative
work within the firm.  On the upside, you could
usually have a life and work regular hours.

Lynn
(who found she speaks Dutch much easier when
she's tired since then she doesn't think, her
dyslexia kicks in and the words get mixed up
sufficiently to actually make sense)

=====
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From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 08:04:20 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 01:04:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: product warnings
In-Reply-To: <17a.1aaaa964.2bf1f9f4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20030513080420.20285.qmail@web21207.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Melly wrote:
> 
> I love those drug commercials! 

Lynn:

I was so shocked when I visited the US a couple
of years ago to see those drug commercials.  I
had never seen one before I left the US, if you
don't count the over-the-counter stuff like
aspirin.

My husband and I were cracking up watching them,
especially because of that small print.  There
were so many of them as well.  I wondered if the
drug companies decided it was cheaper to do the
commericals than to keep giving all those free
samples to the doctors.  LOL

Lynn

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From hp at plum.cream.org  Tue May 13 08:29:45 2003
From: hp at plum.cream.org (GulPlum)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:29:45 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Joanne Rowling's Doctorates
In-Reply-To: <20030513071703.36057.qmail@web21503.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <b9pghc+nd50@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20030513092640.0098cd90@plum.cream.org>

At 08:17 13/05/03 , Ivan Vablatsky wrote:
>Doctor Rowling has two honorary doctorates of letters at British 
>universities. If you wish I can look up which universities. Her title IS 
>Doctor Rowling! And, as I said in a previous email to HPFGU, I feel no one 
>deserves it more than she does, and I will not refer to her as JKR!

Honorary doctorates do not entitle usage of "Doctor" (or "Dr."). I don't 
know of any country's academic establishment which does.




From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 08:52:37 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 01:52:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Joanne Rowling's Doctorates
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20030513092640.0098cd90@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <20030513085237.52916.qmail@web21209.mail.yahoo.com>


--- GulPlum wrote:
> Honorary doctorates do not entitle usage of
> "Doctor" (or "Dr."). I don't 
> know of any country's academic establishment
> which does.


Lynn:

It happens in the US.  I know a minister who had
a GED and got an honorary doctorate for his work
with drug addicts who signed everything after
that with "Dr."  In fact he insisted on being
referred to that way.  Since he's never stopped
and he routinely deals with colleges in his area,
I've always assumed that people are entitled to
use the title.  Then again, he may have just
ignored any attempts to stop him.

Also, when I graduated from college, our keynote
speaker was introduced as "Dr. Smith" and he
opened his speech by informing us that he had
never finished school.  He was some business guy
in California who had a couple of honorary
doctorates and our college recognized the title. 
Then again, the college wasn't anywhere near Ivy
League, bush league maybe, but definitely not Ivy
League.  LOL

Lynn

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From Ali at zymurgy.org  Tue May 13 09:19:29 2003
From: Ali at zymurgy.org (Ali)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:19:29 -0000
Subject: World War II
In-Reply-To: <20030513071109.47147.qmail@web21210.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b9qdb1+ss0i@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Ladi lyndi <ladilyndi at y...> 
wrote:
 
>>>> But, it was the food rationing/black market thing
 that intrigued me, particularly with a
 Malfoy/Weasley connection, not only from a war
 standpoint but also a depression standpoint.
 
 Maybe, the Malfoy's made their fortune gouging
 starving people on the black market while the
 Weasleys used their resources to instead feed and
 sustain the Muggles?  It would certainly explain
 the enmity between the two families to some
 degree.<<<

Erm, I don't think so. WWII meant food shortages and rationing in 
Britain, but it didn't mean starving people. In fact, I have seen 
articles arguing that the Brits' diet in the War was actually quite 
healthy as they were deprived of all sorts of lovely, but unhealthy 
stuff. the Weasleys would not have needed to use their resources to 
feed the populace. They could have given the odd chicken or two to 
their neighbours though <g>

However, it is perfectly feasible that the Malfoys could have been 
Black Marketeers, although I personally doubt that this is where 
their wealth and the enmity between the Weasleys and Malfoys is 
derived from.

Ali





From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Tue May 13 11:18:31 2003
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 21:18:31 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Joanne Rowling's Doctorates
In-Reply-To: <20030513085237.52916.qmail@web21209.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <4.2.0.58.20030513092640.0098cd90@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <3EC16127.24546.149A056@localhost>

On 13 May 2003 at 1:52, Ladi lyndi wrote:

> Lynn:
> 
> It happens in the US.  I know a minister who had
> a GED and got an honorary doctorate for his work
> with drug addicts who signed everything after
> that with "Dr."  In fact he insisted on being
> referred to that way.  Since he's never stopped
> and he routinely deals with colleges in his area,
> I've always assumed that people are entitled to
> use the title.  Then again, he may have just
> ignored any attempts to stop him.
> 
> Also, when I graduated from college, our keynote
> speaker was introduced as "Dr. Smith" and he
> opened his speech by informing us that he had
> never finished school.  He was some business guy
> in California who had a couple of honorary
> doctorates and our college recognized the title. 
> Then again, the college wasn't anywhere near Ivy
> League, bush league maybe, but definitely not Ivy
> League.  LOL

Something I've looked into, mainly because this became an issue here a couple of years 
ago when our Governor-General mentioned he intended to use the title 'Doctor' after 
being awarded an Honourary Doctorate. And he is commonly referred to in the press 
now as Doctor Peter Hollingworth - rather amusing that a man fully entitled to be 
referred to as 'Your Excellency' and as 'Your Grace' is so eager to use 'Doctor' (-8

Anyway, I looked into this - practice varies from country to country. In the UK, it is 
*generally* not customary to use the title Doctor if all a person possesses is an 
Honourary Doctorate.The US is generally more flexible, but it depends on the type of 
doctorates. Honorary Doctors of Divinity quite often use the title.

But there's one overriding issue here, and that is *UNLESS* the person possessing the 
Honourary Doctorate chooses to use the title Doctor, the issue does not arise at all. If 
JKR chose to describe herself as Doctor Rowling that might have some legitimacy - but 
unless she chooses to use it, it is a definite breach of etiquette for anyone else to 
describe her in that way. It's discourteous to assign to an honourand an honourific they 
do not use themselves. If they choose to use it, the issue as to whether they should or 
not arises - but if they do not, there is no dispute.

(Sometimes having gone to a school that insisted you learn the rules of etiquette can be 
useful).

Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200

                       "Almighty Ruler of the all;
                 Whose power extends to great and small;
                 Who guides the stars with steadfast law;
                   Whose least creation fills with awe;
                     Oh grant thy mercy and thy grace;
                     To those who venture into space."




From fakeplastikcynic at hotmail.com  Tue May 13 11:56:11 2003
From: fakeplastikcynic at hotmail.com (martha)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 11:56:11 -0000
Subject: Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
In-Reply-To: <b9p0la+k7vs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9qmgr+9865@eGroups.com>

Bowlwoman:

> My favorites are the drug company commercials touting a "new wonder 
> drug" for whatever is the in vogue ailment.  I know they have to 
list 
> the side effects, but some of the side effects are worse than the 
> disease/problem itself.
> 
> May cause stomach irritation, cirrhosis of the liver, your toenails 
> to turn blue and possibly even asphyxiation.  But your allergies 
will 
> go away!

To which Martha adds:

My favourite of these has to be the leaflet inside a packet of 
antidepressants which came with the warning "side effects may include 
involuntary lactation [!!!], liver disorders, epileptic seizures, 
tearfulness, depression, suicidal tendencies and death". So why take 
the antidepressants? ;-)

A few years ago I came across a list of *stoopid* instructions in a 
magazine (can't for the life of me remember what magazine it was). A 
couple that I remember that made me laugh:

On a children's Superman cape -  "wearing this garment does not 
enable you to fly".

On the packaging for a Swedish-made chainsaw: "do not attempt to stop 
chain with hands or genitals".

Anyway, should be working on essay. Huh.

~Martha, Punk House-Elf extraordinaire




From naama_gat at hotmail.com  Tue May 13 12:02:47 2003
From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naamagatus)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 12:02:47 -0000
Subject: Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
In-Reply-To: <019301c318d5$f68703d0$9c01f50c@mac>
Message-ID: <b9qmt7+rl1c@eGroups.com>


Cindy:

> The warning is:
> >
> > "WARNING:  Do not place device in contact with your eye."  There 
is
> > a picture of an eye with a sketch of the device, and a red
> > circle/line thing cautioning against sticking this scalding device
> > in your eye, I guess.
> >

Sounds like something John Cleese did in some Monty Python skit.

Naama




From ibotsjfvxfst at yahoo.co.uk  Tue May 13 12:10:43 2003
From: ibotsjfvxfst at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Ivan=20Vablatsky?=)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 13:10:43 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Joanne Rowling's Doctorates
In-Reply-To: <3EC16127.24546.149A056@localhost>
Message-ID: <20030513121043.74132.qmail@web21509.mail.yahoo.com>

Shaun Hately <drednort at alphalink.com.au> wrote: 

Something I've looked into, mainly because this became an issue here a couple of years 
ago when our Governor-General mentioned he intended to use the title 'Doctor' after 
being awarded an Honourary Doctorate. [...]
Anyway, I looked into this - practice varies from country to country. In the UK, it is 
*generally* not customary to use the title Doctor if all a person possesses is an 
Honourary Doctorate.The US is generally more flexible, but it depends on the type of 
doctorates. Honorary Doctors of Divinity quite often use the title.

But there's one overriding issue here, and that is *UNLESS* the person possessing the 
Honourary Doctorate chooses to use the title Doctor, the issue does not arise at all. If 
JKR chose to describe herself as Doctor Rowling that might have some legitimacy - but 
unless she chooses to use it, it is a definite breach of etiquette for anyone else to 
describe her in that way. It's discourteous to assign to an honourand an honourific they 
do not use themselves. If they choose to use it, the issue as to whether they should or 
not arises - but if they do not, there is no dispute.

(Sometimes having gone to a school that insisted you learn the rules of etiquette can be 
useful).

Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately
 
My answer:
 
Yes I accept that the person's own choice is the overriding issue. I have gone straight to the horse's mouth (well, as near as you can get) and asked JKR's agent how JKR wishes to be addressed. I quote my email and Christopgher Little's answer in full:
-----Original Message-----
From: Ivan Vablatsky [mailto:ibotsjfvxfst at yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 13 May 2003 12:45
To: Christopher Little
Subject:  Dr Rowling?



Dear Mr Little,

We're having difficulties deciding what exactly is J K Rowling's proper title. Some of us think it's Doctor Rowling, others say her Doctorates are only honorary and so she can't be called Dr Rowling.  It all boils down to what she herself prefers to be called, as we all agree.

Would you be kind enough to let us know by what title she wishes to be addressed?

If you would take a minute to asnwer this email I'd be very grateful.

Yours sincerely,

Hans Rieuwers,

Haarlem,

Netherlands

J K Rowling O.B.E.

                      




---------------------------------
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From jmd at jvf.co.uk  Tue May 13 12:16:26 2003
From: jmd at jvf.co.uk (Jeremy Davis)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 13:16:26 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re:  Joanne Rowling's Doctorates
References: <20030513121043.74132.qmail@web21509.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001e01c31949$79f67d90$0e010001@jmd2000>


> Anyway, I looked into this - practice varies from country to country. In
the UK, it is
> *generally* not customary to use the title Doctor if all a person
possesses is an
> Honourary Doctorate.

I may just be picky here, but in the UK it may be less *general* than you
may think! People with PhDs should be called *DR*, however medical *Drs* do
not have PhDs so in theory they should not be called *DR*, however they are
awarded an Honourary Doctorate, and rather obviously they are called *DR*.




From cindysphinx at comcast.net  Tue May 13 12:22:34 2003
From: cindysphinx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 12:22:34 -0000
Subject: Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
In-Reply-To: <b9phkl+8ukr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9qo2a+k7n7@eGroups.com>

Oh, you guys really made my day!  You're so funny!

Anna observed:

> I was actually thinking of the infamous McDonalds (hot!!) coffee 
>case that happened here in the US a few years ago.  

Oh, I remember that one.  She really got a bad rap in the press, 
though.  I mean, the woman took a shot of scalding coffee to the 
*vulva*!!!!  

And McDonalds was serving coffee much hotter than the industry 
standard for no good reason, despite having received lots of 
complaints and reports of injury.  And the appellate court reduced 
the jury verdict by quite a lot in the end, anyway, IIRC.

I even have a touch of sympathy with people who do stupid 
things, 'cause, uh, I've been known to be stupid at times.  ;-)  I 
was mowing the lawn, and the chute started clogging because the 
grass was wet.  I reached down and came mighty close to actually 
sticking my hand in the running mower to clear out the grass.  I 
attribute this mental lapse to being woozy from the heat.

Anyway, my favorite case of a stupid person winning a huge jury 
verdict was a woman who scored $12 million off of Toyota.  It seems 
she was driving along and her floor mat became bunched up under her 
brake.  When it was time to stop, her foot either became caught in 
the floor mat, or perhaps it bunched up under the brake and 
prevented her from applying the brake.  Either way, the accident was 
Toyota's fault, the jury decided.

I suspect this is why my car has little tabs on the floor mat and 
floor to secure the mat.  

I do like those tabs though.  They keep the mats nice and flat and 
pretty.  ;-)

Cindy -- whose elderly neighbor once fell in her driveway and broke 
a hip and almost filed suit over it




From katherine.coble at crgibson.com  Tue May 13 13:14:15 2003
From: katherine.coble at crgibson.com (Coble, Katherine)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:14:15 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Dialects and Beverages
Message-ID: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3F40@teserver01.treat.net>

Lina writes:


> Lina, who is frustrated daily with dialectal differences and still refers
> to
> carbonated breverages as "cold drink" or "coke" 
> 
Mycropht has something to say about that:

Hey, when this Indiana Girl moved to Tennessee 12 years ago, she was
endlessly confounded by people who would ask her "what kind?" whenever she
ordered a Coke.  Up there it's "pop", but for some wierd dialectical reason
I've always called it Soda.  (In Indiana a Soda is a drink made with
chocolate syrup, carbonated water and Ice Cream)

The one that I will NEVER comprehend is the "egg cream".  There's NO egg in
it.  Anyone from Brooklyn care to explain?!

Mycropht


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From s_ings at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 13:14:03 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:14:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Happy Birthday, Neil and Parker!
Message-ID: <20030513131403.22468.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com>

*magically suspends glittering confetti above the
party room and supervises the setting out of much food
and a very large cake*

Today's birthday honourees are Neil and Parker.
Birthday owls can be send care of this list or sent
directly to Neil at neilward at dircon.co.uk and Parker
at pnesbit at msn.com

I hope you both have the best possible days, filled
with magic and joy.

Happy Birthday, Neil!
Happy Birthday, Parker!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf

=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From s_ings at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 13:17:17 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:17:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Happy Birthday, Neil and Parker!
In-Reply-To: <20030513131403.22468.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030513131717.17222.qmail@web41113.mail.yahoo.com>

Silly Birthday Elf! Parker's email address is
pbnesbit at msn.com

Birthday Elf off to iron hands

 --- Sheryll Townsend <s_ings at yahoo.com> wrote: >
*magically suspends glittering confetti above the
> party room and supervises the setting out of much
> food
> and a very large cake*
> 
> Today's birthday honourees are Neil and Parker.
> Birthday owls can be send care of this list or sent
> directly to Neil at neilward at dircon.co.uk and Parker
> at pnesbit at msn.com
> 
> I hope you both have the best possible days, filled
> with magic and joy.
> 
> Happy Birthday, Neil!
> Happy Birthday, Parker!
> 
> Sheryll the Birthday Elf


=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From katherine.coble at crgibson.com  Tue May 13 13:20:22 2003
From: katherine.coble at crgibson.com (Coble, Katherine)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:20:22 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Joanne Rowling's Doctorates
Message-ID: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3F41@teserver01.treat.net>

Shaun and Lynn Discuss Doctorates:




> On 13 May 2003 at 1:52, Ladi lyndi wrote:
> 
> > Lynn:
> > 
> > It happens in the US.   I know a minister who had
> > a GED and got an honorary doctorate for his work
> > with drug addicts who signed everything after
> > that with "Dr."   
> 
> 
> But there's one overriding issue here, and that is *UNLESS* the person
> possessing the 
> Honourary Doctorate chooses to use the title Doctor, the issue does not
> arise at all.
> 
Mycropht says:

Hey. It took my 5 years of watching "The Cosby Show" to realize that the
Educational Consultant they used who called himself "William H. [?] Cosby
Jr. Ed.D" was Bill Cosby flaunting his honorary doctorate. I thought it was
his father. Imagine using your Honorary Doctorate to score a job as a
consultant.  Oh well.   

My father has an earned doctorate, and has never called himself "Doctor".
His closest male friend, however, has an honorary degree conferred by a
college without a Grad school (I didn't know they could do that) and insists
that that everyone call him Doctor.

Mycropht
(Not a Doctor, but I _have_ been a patient before.)

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From katherine.coble at crgibson.com  Tue May 13 13:28:14 2003
From: katherine.coble at crgibson.com (Coble, Katherine)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:28:14 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Joanne Rowling's Doctorates
Message-ID: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3F42@teserver01.treat.net>




> At 08:17 13/05/03 , Ivan Vablatsky wrote:
> >Doctor Rowling has two honorary doctorates of letters at British 
> >universities. If you wish I can look up which universities. Her title IS 
> >Doctor Rowling! And, as I said in a previous email to HPFGU, I feel no
> one 
> >deserves it more than she does, and I will not refer to her as JKR!
> 
Mycropht Begs to Differ:

I really like her work, and I'm pleased that others have chosen to give her
this nice perk.  I would, however, disagree with the above.  I have several
family members who have earned doctorates in Medicine, Philosophy, Law, and
Divinity.  I've watched these men and women struggle for years to pay for
school, working 48 hours without sleep and studying diligently to become
skilled at their chosen discipline.   
I'd like to think they deseve their titles maybe a little bit more than
someone who didn't go through all of that.  

Just my opinion.  Sorry for the controversy.

Mycropht

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From katherine.coble at crgibson.com  Tue May 13 13:32:52 2003
From: katherine.coble at crgibson.com (Coble, Katherine)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:32:52 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re:  Joanne Rowling's Doctorates
Message-ID: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3F44@teserver01.treat.net>

Jeremy Davis says:

> I may just be picky here, but in the UK it may be less *general* than you
> may think! People with PhDs should be called *DR*, however medical *Drs*
> do
> not have PhDs so in theory they should not be called *DR*, however they
> are
> awarded an Honourary Doctorate, and rather obviously they are called *DR*.
> 
> 
Mycropht says:

Medical Doctors are MDs.  That stands for Doctor of Medicine.  They are
entitled to the Honorific.


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From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 14:11:17 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 07:11:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Joanne Rowling's Doctorates
In-Reply-To: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3F41@teserver01.treat.net>
Message-ID: <20030513141117.68640.qmail@web21208.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Mycropht wrote:
> Hey. It took my 5 years of watching "The Cosby
> Show" to realize that the
> Educational Consultant they used who called
> himself "William H. [?] Cosby
> Jr. Ed.D" was Bill Cosby flaunting his honorary
> doctorate. 

Lynn:

Actually, Bill Cosby's doctorate isn't honorary,
well, at least one of them isn't.  LOL

According to biography.com:

"Though his successful career as an entertainer
made a college degree unnecessary, Cosby spent
much of the 1970s earning advanced degrees in
education at the University of Massachusetts at
Amherst. The university allowed him to substitute
life experience for his uncompleted bachelor's
degree and his work in prisons and on the
children's television program The Electric
Company for its teaching requirement. Cosby wrote
a 242-page dissertation called "An Integration of
the Visual Media via Fat Albert and the Cosby
Kids into the Elementary School Curriculum as a
Teaching Aid and Vehicle to Achieve Increased
Learning," and in May of 1977, he was awarded a
doctorate of education." 


After reading his biography, it's easy to see why
he's proud of that doctorate.

Lynn


=====
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From selene at earthlink.net  Tue May 13 14:33:34 2003
From: selene at earthlink.net (Susan Fox-Davis)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 07:33:34 -0700
Subject: Dialects and Beverages
Message-ID: <3EC1023E.C49FC039@earthlink.net>

Mycropht bemoans:

"The one that I will NEVER comprehend is the "egg cream".  There's NO
egg in
it.  Anyone from Brooklyn care to explain?!"

My father was from Brooklyn, and he says that it was a Depression-era
treat.  Mostly "two cents plain" with a dash of chocolate syrup and
about an equal amount of milk -- most moderns put in too much milk.  The
name "egg cream" made it sound more extravagant during these hard times,
despite the complete absence of egg and cream.  Call it early 20th C.
Positive-Thinking Marketing!

Susan Fox-Davis




From prittylina at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 14:38:11 2003
From: prittylina at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Lina?=)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 15:38:11 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Dialects and Beverages
In-Reply-To: <1052833121.786.53757.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030513143811.16172.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com>

Mycropht wrote: 
> The one that I will NEVER comprehend is the "egg cream".  There's NO egg in
> it.  Anyone from Brooklyn care to explain?!

I've never actually heard of these and had to ask a friend from Brooklyn.
According to her, the syrup used originally was made with eggs, although later
(and now?) milk was (is) used. I researched it using google (which, aside from
Lexis-Nexis, is my best friend) and it seems to be right: 
http://www.nycvisit.com/content/index.cfm?pagePkey=674
(I did, however, find other sources that state that it is called an "egg cream"
due to the froth being made with egg whites, but... well, same difference,
really.)


L

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For a better Internet experience
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From erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 14:49:26 2003
From: erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com (erisedstraeh2002)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 14:49:26 -0000
Subject: Dutch Version of OoP Already Out?
Message-ID: <b9r0lm+od9i@eGroups.com>

Thanks, all, for clarifying that there is in fact no Dutch OoP 
version already on the streets.

If the author of the Daily Times article is confusing this with the 
Dutch version of Tanya Grotter, he's really mixed-up, because he goes 
on to say:

"One publisher has gone to the extent of getting the Dutch version 
translated back into English for under-the-counter sales to British 
fans who couldn't bear the thought of waiting until June to read the 
new adventures of the world's most famous boy wizard."

(same link as before:
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_12-5-2003_pg3_7)

It's no wonder why confusion reigns supreme!

~Phyllis




From selene at earthlink.net  Tue May 13 14:56:07 2003
From: selene at earthlink.net (Susan Fox-Davis)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 07:56:07 -0700
Subject: Bowman Wright /World War II /MTA /What Mythical Beast Are You?
Message-ID: <3EC10787.2C2371FA@earthlink.net>


Phyllis wrote:

<< I re-reviewed QTTA, and find it interesting that Bowman Wright's
1492 birthday (and 1560 year of death) >>
Then Rita wrote:
<He died at 68! What happened to those long wizarding lifespans?>

Wizards can still be killed.  There's clearly an interesting untold
story here.

I wrote:

<< I'm sure every wizard who could got out of London during the
Blitz, but what of Platform 9 ? >>

Rita answers:  <I've wondered if the wizarding folk could put spells on
their houses
(and on Diagon Alley and Platform 9 3/4 and Hogwarts) that would
cause bombs falling from the sky to just accidentally miss them.
Anyway, Diagon Alley and Platform 9 3/4 are inside spaces that are
bigger inside than outside (like the trunk of Arthur's little car)
and therefore not exposed to aerial bombardment from normal space.>

One can only hope that's so!  Works for Dr. Who anyway. <G>

Rita continues:
<<When I brought this question to the main list (oh, long ago),
Pip!Squeak pointed out that London evacuee children were housed in
Every farm and cottage in rural England, and any wizarding rural home
that was even slightly visible to even a few neighboring Muggles (
and The Burrow was Visible to the Muggle taxi-drivers, even tho'
distance, hedgerows, and Nothing-Interesting-Here spells kept most
Muggles from intruding) would have had a lot of explaining to do if
they WEREN'T housing evacuee children.>>

Sure!  Wizards' children from the city!

<<There's no way they could have
gone unnoticed if they violated the blackout. And I wonder if they
struggled under food rationing or, contrariwise, profitted muchly by
selling excess wizarding foodstuffs to Muggle neighbors at black
market prices ... that one ties into my larger questions about
wizarding food supply, like do they have wizarding farmers or buy
from Muggles, can they multiply their food by magic or turn yuck-o
turnips into yummygood beefsteak by Transfiguration, and so on.>>

Excuse me, I'm having a "Matrix" moment here... my mind tells me this
steak is tender and juicy but it's all an illusion... and how hard would
a "lights out" spell over the outside of the house be? Let's hope it
works better than Maxwell Smart's Cone of Silence. <nostalgic smile>

Me:
<< There have always been rumors of the occultists of Britain working
for the protection of its shores and people from outside invasion. >>
Rita:
<Not merely rumors: Dion Fortune wrote in at least one of her books of
spending hours a way in prayerful meditation envisioning the four
archangels standing guard around the island of Britain and St. George
on his white horse standing guard above.>

Ah well, there's her of course.  I wasn't there so it's strictly
hearsay.
I still maintain that "our" wizards and "their" wizards cancelled each
other out and the war had to be decided by plain old Muggle might,
which was a force to be reckoned with by war's end, wasn't it?

I need to look up that Arthurian fanfic of David Frankis Stein's,
could someone supply the URP please?

Fondly,
Susan Fox-Davis






From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Tue May 13 15:00:13 2003
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 15:00:13 -0000
Subject: Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
In-Reply-To: <b9qmgr+9865@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9r19t+6ko9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter, "Melissa McCarthy" wrote:
> Which reminds me, on a plane trip a year ago, I was given a little
> package of Salted Peanuts with the label "WARNING: May contain
> peanuts."  May?!
> 
> Melissa, hoping one-liners are allowed on OTChatter

Well, technically speaking it is conceivable that an error in 
packaging could result in the package not containing peanuts - 
perhaps the company's legal advisors worried about a lawsuit from 
disappointed customers finding their package of peanuts empty?

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter, "martha" wrote:
[snip]

> A few years ago I came across a list of *stoopid* instructions
> in a magazine (can't for the life of me remember what magazine
> it was). A couple that I remember that made me laugh:

[snip]

That list has done the rounds on internet as well - here is one 
version of it:

On a Sear's hairdryer:
"Do not use while sleeping."
(darn, and that's the only time I have to work on my hair)

On a bag of Fritos:
"You could be a winner! No purchase necessary. Details inside."
(let me guess, the shoplifter special?)

On a bar of Dial soap:
"Directions: Use like regular soap."
(and that would be how?? And, does that mean it's not really soap?)

On Tesco's Tiramisu dessert (printed on bottom):
"Do not turn upside down."
(well...duh, a bit late, huh?)

On Marks and Spencer Bread Pudding:
"Product will be hot after heating."
(...and you thought.....????)

On packaging for a Rowenta iron:
"Do not iron clothes on body."
(but wouldn't this save me more time?)

On Boot's Children Cough Medicine:
"Do not drive a car or operate machinery after taking this 
medication."
(We could do a lot to reduce the rate of construction accidents if we 
could just get those 5-year-olds with head colds off those forklifts.)

On Nytol Sleep Aid:
"Warning: May cause drowsiness."
(and ... I'm taking this because??...)

On most brands of Christmas lights:
"For indoor or outdoor use only."
(as opposed to... what? Outer Space?)

On a Japanese food processor:
"Not to be used for the other use."
(okay, now, somebody out there, help me on this. I'm a bit curious.)

On Sainsbury's peanuts:
"Warning: contains nuts."
(really? wow, talk about a newsflash.)

On an American Airlines packet of nuts:
"Instructions: Open packet, eat nuts."
(Step 3: maybe, uh... fly another airline?)

On a child's superman costume:
"Wearing this garment does not enable you to fly."
(I don't blame the company. I blame the parents for this one.)

On a Swedish chainsaw:
"Do not attempt to stop chain with your hands or genitals."
(Oh my God! Was there a lot of this happening somewhere? What I would 
give for the consumer feedback line recordings for this one!) 

On a blanket from Taiwan:
"NOT TO BE USED AS PROTECTION FROM A TORNADO."
(Bugga! What am I gunna use now???)

On a helmet-mounted mirror used by American cyclists:
"REMEMBER, OBJECTS IN THE MIRROR ARE ACTUALLY BEHIND YOU."
(No s**t Sherlock. Makes me worry about those who thought the truck 
was in front of them.)

On a Taiwanese shampoo:
"USE REPEATEDLY FOR SEVERE DAMAGE."
(Huh? It won't heppen over night, but it will heppen.)

On the bottle-top of a British flavoured milk drink:
"AFTER OPENING, KEEP UPRIGHT."
(Something about spilt milk? I dunno. Weird mob.)

In an American guide to setting up a new computer:
"TO AVOID CONDENSATION FORMING, ALLOW THE BOXES TO WARM UP TO ROOM 
TEMPERATURE BEFORE OPENING."
(Sensible, but the instruction was INSIDE the box.)

On a packet of American Sunmaid raisins:
"WHY NOT TRY TOSSING OVER YOUR FAVOURITE BREAKFAST CEREAL"
(I prefer milk myself.)

On a Korean kitchen knife:
"WARNING: KEEP OUT OF CHILDREN."
(Who are they to tell me what to do with my kids?)

On some frozen dinners:
"SERVING SUGGESTION: DEFROST."
(Wow! I thought it was meant to be crunchy!)

On a hotel provided shower cap in a box:
"FITS ONE HEAD."
(Unless you work in Marketing)

Paint Stripper Heat Gun:
"NOT TO BE USED AS A HAIRDRYER."
(But it's quicker as I can't dry my hair while sleeping! Michael 
Jackson & Pepsi ring any bells?)

Best regards
Christian Stub?




From abigailnus at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 15:44:55 2003
From: abigailnus at yahoo.com (abigailnus)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 15:44:55 -0000
Subject: Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
In-Reply-To: <b9r19t+6ko9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9r3tn+p9um@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "pengolodh_sc" <pengolodh_sc at y...> 
> On an American Airlines packet of nuts:
> "Instructions: Open packet, eat nuts."
> (Step 3: maybe, uh... fly another airline?)

This reminds me of the scene in Douglas Adams's So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish in 
which the heroes go to visit a famous recluse, who has built himself a house that is 
inside out - all the furniture is outdoors and the garden is inside.  When they ask him 
about it, he explains that the entire world is a mental asylum, and he and his wife live 
outside it.  He further says that he realised the entire world was insane upon reading 
instructions on a package of dental floss.

Sad to think that this is yet another thing that Adams didn't make up.

Abigail




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 16:38:39 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 16:38:39 -0000
Subject: Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
In-Reply-To: <b9r19t+6ko9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9r72f+faf0@eGroups.com>

> On a bar of Dial soap:
> "Directions: Use like regular soap."

Now this one, I like.  It's as if some smart aleck assigned to create 
the packaging decided to make fun of all the other stupid 
instructions, and got away with it. 
 
> On packaging for a Rowenta iron:
> "Do not iron clothes on body."

Drat, I do this all the time.  I've only gotten burned once or twice.

Amy




From psychic_serpent at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 18:09:42 2003
From: psychic_serpent at yahoo.com (psychic_serpent)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 18:09:42 -0000
Subject: product warnings
In-Reply-To: <17a.1aaaa964.2bf1f9f4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <b9rcd6+nhrb@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Ripleywriter at a... wrote:
There's constantly small white print on the screen and they do their 
damndest to make their drugs look romantic and wonderful, with this 
cheery voice-over person and slow-mos of people dancing "living" in 
whatever they do, thanks to Miracle Drug. I think it'd be funny if 
instead of those trying-to-be-respectful-about-it ads, they 
advertised Viagra saying: "Go see your doctor today and get back in 
the sack, with Viagra!"  

Me:

My husband and I are always cracking up at the ads that imply that 
if you start taking a certain drug for herpes symptoms, you will 
suddenly be able to water ski, go mountain climbing, etc., even if 
you never did these things before.  It always reminds me of the old 
joke about a man whose broken arm was set and healed by his doctor.  
He flexes his arm and says, "Will I be able to play the violin, 
Doctor?"  The doctor smiles and tells him that he will of course be 
able to play the violin.  The man grins and says, "That's great!  I 
never could before!"

--Barb

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychic_Serpent
http:/www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb





From macloudt at hotmail.com  Tue May 13 18:25:39 2003
From: macloudt at hotmail.com (Mary Ann)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 18:25:39 -0000
Subject: Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
In-Reply-To: <b9p0la+k7vs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9rdb3+p1jo@eGroups.com>

Love the topic, Cindy!  And don't worry, the warnings on British 
products are just as bad.

Bowlwoman wrote:

> My favorites are the drug company commercials touting a "new wonder 
> drug" for whatever is the in vogue ailment.  I know they have to 
list 
> the side effects, but some of the side effects are worse than the 
> disease/problem itself.
> 
> May cause stomach irritation, cirrhosis of the liver, your toenails 
> to turn blue and possibly even asphyxiation.  But your allergies 
will 
> go away!

My favourite line on this topic comes from the late, wonderful Erma 
Bombeck.  In her book _All I Know About Animal Behaviour I Learned in 
Loehmann's Dressing Room_ Erma mentions a package of vitamins that 
give the warning "May cause genital itching", to which she replies "I 
certainly want a refill on that one".

Sums it up, doesn't it?

The Idiot Warning that drives me up the wall is one that is found on 
every set of kids' pajamas:  keep away from fire.  Gee, and here I 
was ready to tuck the kids up in the fireplace.

Duh.

Mary Ann
(who is a great fan of the Darwin Awards)




From huntleyl at mssm.org  Tue May 13 18:45:43 2003
From: huntleyl at mssm.org (Laura Ingalls Huntley)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 14:45:43 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
References: <b9p0ad+orgs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <008f01c3197f$ee79b340$4301a8c0@huntleyl>

Cindy:
> Maybe I'm weird or something, but I just *love* to read the warnings
> they put in new products you buy.  I cannot wait to tear open the
> package and find out how *not* to use the product.  I always find
> myself wondering who on earth is so dumb that they need the warning
> being given.

Or the ones like: "CAUTION: this product may cause cancer in California."  I
mean, what is one supposed to do about that?  Sometimes I think the people
who write these things just make up stuff to see if we're paying attention.

Laura (who read this particular caution on a bottle of silver cleaning
solution *after* spilling the entire bottle all over her closet, and who
thanks God there's a continent between her and California. ^_~)





From psychic_serpent at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 18:37:29 2003
From: psychic_serpent at yahoo.com (psychic_serpent)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 18:37:29 -0000
Subject: Joanne Rowling's Doctorates
In-Reply-To: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3F41@teserver01.treat.net>
Message-ID: <b9re19+bojt@eGroups.com>

"Coble, Katherine" wrote:

Hey. It took my 5 years of watching "The Cosby Show" to realize that 
the Educational Consultant they used who called himself "William H. 
[?] Cosby Jr. Ed.D" was Bill Cosby flaunting his honorary doctorate. 
I thought it was his father. Imagine using your Honorary Doctorate 
to score a job as a consultant.  Oh well.   

Me:

Well, since he helped create and starred in the show, he didn't 
exactly 'score a job as a consultant.'  What he really did was to 
decide to use his honorary doctorate to give his billing on the 
show, other than as an actor, a little academic boost.  Most people 
in this position get themselves billed as executive producer, or if 
it's really more of an honorary position, someone else who really 
does the work is the executive producer and the star and center of 
the universe on the show is also billed as the producer.  

I went to Temple University years ago, where Cosby is a very big 
deal (he went there and he's given gobs of money to the school) and 
whenever he was introduced at university functions, such as 
graduations, his honorary degree was ALWAYS used.  

"Coble, Katherine" wrote:

My father has an earned doctorate, and has never called 
himself "Doctor". His closest male friend, however, has an honorary 
degree conferred by a college without a Grad school (I didn't know 
they could do that) and insists that that everyone call him Doctor.
 
Me:

It's funny, I was always taught that a PhD did not give you the 
right to be called doctor, although most professors I knew would 
accept being addressed in this way.  Usually freshmen seemed to feel 
the need for the formality, before settling into university life.  I 
think I ended up being on a first-name basis with most professors, 
rendering this moot.  Recently I've gone back to school, and my 
professors are Paula, Gretchen, Miles, Tony, Michael, Bob... It's 
probably in part because I'm studying architecture now, and no one 
in this field has a doctorate, but even when I was young, my 
professors were called things like Peter, Sam, Martha, Dan, Judy, 
Jim and Ron.  That's what they expected us to call them.  Other 
instructors, if they had doctorates, would insist upon the "doctor" 
title being used.  (A bad sign, usually, although there were 
exceptions.)  A few instructors with only master's degrees would get 
huffy if you called them 'doctor.' (One guy in the English 
department thought it would imply that he'd 'sold out.')  

I was taught that people with medical degrees could be 
called 'doctor' and that was it.  In practice, most people who've 
actually earned PhDs or DDivs (Doctor of Divinity, resulting in the 
title "Reverend Doctor") will go by 'Doctor.'  I do think it's 
misleading, however, to use a title from an honorary degree.  It's 
meant to be something nice you can hang up in your home, not a way 
to mislead people so that they think you attained an academic degree 
that you did not.  JKR doesn't seem like the sort to do this.  I do 
like the idea of her using the O.B.E. after her name, though. 
("Joanne Rowling, O.B.E.")  That looks rather nice, and it's 
perfectly appropriate.


--Barb

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychic_Serpent
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb




From ibotsjfvxfst at yahoo.co.uk  Tue May 13 18:39:42 2003
From: ibotsjfvxfst at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Ivan=20Vablatsky?=)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 19:39:42 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Joanne Rowling's Doctorates
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20030513092640.0098cd90@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <20030513183942.98043.qmail@web21501.mail.yahoo.com>

On 13/05/03 , Hans wrote:
>Doctor Rowling has two honorary doctorates of letters at British 
>universities. If you wish I can look up which universities. Her title IS 
>Doctor Rowling! And, as I said in a previous email to HPFGU, I feel no one 
>deserves it more than she does, and I will not refer to her as JKR!

GulPlum <hp at plum.cream.org> wrote:

Honorary doctorates do not entitle usage of "Doctor" (or "Dr."). I don't 
know of any country's academic establishment which does.
 
Hans again:
In an earlier email I sent a copy of an email from me to Christopher Little, J K Rowling's agent, asking him what she preferred. The answer from Mr Little was that she wanted to be referred to as "J K Rowling OBE".
 
However just for the record I want to quote the source where I learnt that she IS entitled to call herself Dr Rowling, even if she chooses not to. This is Philip Nel's book, "J K Rowling's Harry Potter Novels". I quote from page 25:
"In recognition of her achievement, Rowling received an OBE (Order of the British Empire) in June 2000. The same month, she received a Doctor of Letters from the University of St Andrews, and in July, her Alma Mater, the University of Exeter, awarded her a Doctor of Letter because "what she writes makes the world a better place", explained professor Peter Wiseman ("Now it's Doctor Rowling")."
 
The above proves to me that she IS entitled to call herself Dr Rowling. I presume the quote in brackets is by Prof. Wiseman. If he doesn't know who can use that tile, no one does.
 
Anyway I'm not sorry I brought this up as it has brought up some interesting facts about titles.
 
By the way I now have nineteen books about HP (not counting canon). If you're interested I could email a list. Most of the books I've obtained from Amazon and so I presume everyone knows them, but if not, I'll be only too glad to email the complete list.
 
Hans
 
"Any friend of Harry's is a friend of mine."




---------------------------------
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From nethilia at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 19:46:28 2003
From: nethilia at yahoo.com (Nethilia)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 12:46:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
In-Reply-To: <1052786930.1864.41604.m6@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030513194628.27010.qmail@web41111.mail.yahoo.com>


>    From: "Chase Wildstar" <Chasewildstar at attbi.com>
> Subject: Re: Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
> 
> They should all come with this warning:
> "WARNING -- This device not intended to be used by
> stupid people."

One I keep aroud for some people:

"It has come to the attention of the management that
you exist. Please cease and desist. Thank you."

--Neth 

=====
http://www.spenecial.com
Spenecial*com. Two girls. One Website. Total Chaos.

"When I see a burning cross, the first thought in my head is most likely not, 'I could really go for a cold refreshing beverage right now!' "

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com



From pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk  Tue May 13 20:19:04 2003
From: pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk (bluesqueak)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 20:19:04 -0000
Subject: product warnings (prescription drugs)
In-Reply-To: <20030513080420.20285.qmail@web21207.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b9rjvo+npfr@eGroups.com>

I'm particularly amused by the additional information leaflet on 
some prescription drugs I've just been prescribed.

'You are advised to avoid the following two hours before and after 
taking this medicine. Tea, coffee, milk, eggs, whole grains, meat 
and products containing Vitamin C.'

The instructions on the *outside* of the packet are: 'take after 
food'.

How?

Pip
[who apparently should be spending the next several weeks on a diet 
of fish. And nothing else.]




From sushi at societyhappens.com  Tue May 13 20:38:12 2003
From: sushi at societyhappens.com (Sushi)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 15:38:12 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: product warnings (prescription drugs)
In-Reply-To: <b9rjvo+npfr@eGroups.com>
References: <20030513080420.20285.qmail@web21207.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030513153730.0338ddb0@mail.societyhappens.com>


>'You are advised to avoid the following two hours before and after
>taking this medicine. Tea, coffee, milk, eggs, whole grains, meat
>and products containing Vitamin C.'
>
>The instructions on the *outside* of the packet are: 'take after
>food'.
>
>How?

         Hey, it never said anything about soda and pop rocks...

Sushi, who would live on nothing but candy if she could


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From saitaina at wizzards.net  Tue May 13 20:33:21 2003
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 13:33:21 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Product Warnings (more Erma)
References: <b9rdb3+p1jo@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <008801c3198e$e5a8c800$283c1c40@aoldsl.net>

Mary Ann Wrote:

<My favourite line on this topic comes from
the late, wonderful Erma
Bombeck.  In her book _All I Know About
Animal Behavior I Learned in
Loehmann's Dressing Room_ Erma mentions a
package of vitamins that
give the warning "May cause genital itching",
to which she replies "I
certainly want a refill on that one".>

My favorite line of hers in the same vein is
her taking the medicine bottles from her son
(after reading about all the diseases one
can't take them with) and putting them in a
high cupboard.  When he asks why, she replies
"These should be kept out of the reach of
sick people."

Saitaina
****
It had almost been as though his hand had
acted on it's own accord,
and he had the intention to reprimand it
later.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/saitaina

I had dreamed of the day I would defend a
lady in peril,
but I had hoped to have more then a pot of
honey as a weapon.




From Ridicully at gmx.net  Tue May 13 21:23:02 2003
From: Ridicully at gmx.net (ridicully11)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 21:23:02 -0000
Subject: Joanne Rowling's Doctorates
In-Reply-To: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3F44@teserver01.treat.net>
Message-ID: <b9rnnm+5275@eGroups.com>

> > I may just be picky here, but in the UK it may be less *general* 
than you


> > may think! People with PhDs should be called *DR*, however medical 
*Drs*


> > do


> > not have PhDs so in theory they should not be called *DR*, however 
they


> > are


> > awarded an Honourary Doctorate, and rather obviously they are 
called *DR*.


> > 


> Mycropht says:


> 


> Medical Doctors are MDs.  That stands for Doctor of Medicine.  They 
are


> entitled to the Honorific.


> 




I think medical degrees have to be treated differently. Mostly *the 
patients* will call you doctor and they will call anything doctor that 
walks around, looks likes it knows what it does and is dressed in 
something resembling white.


I'm a student, when I'm finished (only 2 1/2 more years) I'll be a 
vet. Neither now, nor then am I or will i be formally entitled to be 
called doctor, but the patients (or rathter their owners) do it 
anyway. 


I plan to get an 'official' title after this, then I'll hopefully be a 
'Dr. vet. med.'. This will become part of my 'official' name - for 
example on my ID and on most forms. Weather I use it in private 
letters, is up to what I prefer.


The only difference with honorary degrees is as far as I know that 
they aren't part of this 'official' name. What you do in your private 
corespondence is up to you.


Of course this is no help at all to decide how exactly it is handled 
in the UK but I thought I would mention it anyway.




Smile


Ridi - whose 'official' name already includes *three* given names





From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Tue May 13 22:16:56 2003
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 08:16:56 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re:  Joanne Rowling's Doctorates
In-Reply-To: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3F44@teserver01.treat.net>
Message-ID: <3EC1FB78.23275.3A4829D@localhost>

On 13 May 2003 at 9:32, Coble, Katherine wrote:

> Mycropht says:
> 
> Medical Doctors are MDs.  That stands for Doctor of Medicine.  They are
> entitled to the Honorific.

Not in the UK. A Medical Doctor in the UK may hold an MBBS (Bachelor of Medicine, 
Bachelor of Surgery) or a MBChB (Medicinae Baccalaureus, Chirurgiae Baccalaureus). 
These are dual Bachelors degrees. They are a special case, and entitled to use the 
courtesy title of 'Doctor' before their name (a courtesy title is very different from an 
Honourary degree) as a matter of tradition. The distinction comes from the way Medical 
education is handled. In the US, a Medical Doctor undertakes further education after 
their basic degree (which may be in an area specifically designed to lead to 
postgraduate study in Medicine) - in the UK, they can start formally training as a medical 
Doctor as an undergraduate. This doesn't preclude British medical doctors from holding 
academic Doctorates - but it's not a requirement.

The fact that MBBS and MBChBs are entitled to call themselves Doctors has nothing to 
do with their holding Honourary Degrees - most do *not* hold any such degree. It's a 
courtesy based on longstanding tradition. Incidentally, British surgeons - who have gone 
on to obtain more than their basic medical training - are traditionally called 'Mister' - so a 
'Doctor' becomes a 'Mister' when he becomes more qualified. Again, it's a matter of 
tradition. And the traditions don't always slip neatly into the hard and fast academic 
rules.



Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200

                       "Almighty Ruler of the all;
                 Whose power extends to great and small;
                 Who guides the stars with steadfast law;
                   Whose least creation fills with awe;
                     Oh grant thy mercy and thy grace;
                     To those who venture into space."




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Tue May 13 22:29:12 2003
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 08:29:12 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Joanne Rowling's Doctorates
In-Reply-To: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3F41@teserver01.treat.net>
Message-ID: <3EC1FE58.4283.3AFC022@localhost>

On 13 May 2003 at 9:20, Coble, Katherine wrote:

> Mycropht says:
> 
> Hey. It took my 5 years of watching "The Cosby Show" to realize that the
> Educational Consultant they used who called himself "William H. [?] Cosby
> Jr. Ed.D" was Bill Cosby flaunting his honorary doctorate. I thought it was
> his father. Imagine using your Honorary Doctorate to score a job as a
> consultant.  Oh well.   

While some people have said Bill Cosby has an earned doctorate, meaning he is not 
doing this, it's quite valid to use an Honourary Doctorate as a path to employment 
provided you don't claim they are an academic degree. Generally an honourary degree 
is awarded in an area the person has gained some distinction and eminence in, and it 
tells people that the professionals in the field respect this person's achievements in that 
area. That's certainly of potential relevance to their employment.

Provided they don't claim academic training they have not had, there's no problem here 
- and in fact, most Honourary Doctorates (not all) are of types that are never given 
academically so any moderately informed person (like hopefully those interviewing for a 
position) can tell the difference from the postnominal letters.

Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200

                       "Almighty Ruler of the all;
                 Whose power extends to great and small;
                 Who guides the stars with steadfast law;
                   Whose least creation fills with awe;
                     Oh grant thy mercy and thy grace;
                     To those who venture into space."




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Tue May 13 22:34:01 2003
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 08:34:01 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Joanne Rowling's Doctorates
In-Reply-To: <20030513183942.98043.qmail@web21501.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <4.2.0.58.20030513092640.0098cd90@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <3EC1FF79.14220.3B429B4@localhost>

On 13 May 2003 at 19:39, Ivan Vablatsky wrote:

> The above proves to me that she IS entitled to call herself Dr Rowling. I presume the 
> quote in brackets is by Prof. Wiseman. If he doesn't know who can use that tile, no 
> one does.

All this really means is that someone (perhaps Professor Wiseman) chose to make a 
joke. This isn't uncommon. I've been to ceremonies conferring Honourary Doctorates 
here, and people always make jokes about them afterwards - often calling the person 
'Doctor', sometimes asking things like 'Can you remove my appendix now?'. It doesn't 
mean the title is something they are entitled to use. It's just a reflection of the good 
spirits that erupt on such occasions (and depending on the institution may be a reaction 
to having just escaped from a three hour ceremony conducted entirely in Latin).

I might see if I can track down a copy of the British protocols on this.

Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200

                       "Almighty Ruler of the all;
                 Whose power extends to great and small;
                 Who guides the stars with steadfast law;
                   Whose least creation fills with awe;
                     Oh grant thy mercy and thy grace;
                     To those who venture into space."




From glcherry at bellsouth.net  Wed May 14 02:21:27 2003
From: glcherry at bellsouth.net (stardancerofas)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 02:21:27 -0000
Subject: Casting Rumors
Message-ID: <b9s977+vfsd@eGroups.com>

Okay, I'm fairly new here (and wonder when I'll be considered old
here, but that's another topic...), And just had to throw this out to
the masses.

There is a rumor, and I stress 'rumor' that Rowan Atkinson (of Mr.
Bean fame) has been cast, of all people as Lord Voldemort. Am I the
only person who will not be able to keep a straight face over this or
what? Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Mr. Bean, I think he's a HOOT, but
The Dark Lord? Rowan Atkinson is a wonderful actor, but I'll always be
seeing Mr. Bean in my head.

The rumor also says that Richard Wilson has been cast as Frank Bryce,
Richard Wilson, sounds familiar, but I can't place him (actually to
lazy right now to Goggle him either).

Now, to switch gears for one moment. Do you know who I would cast as
Mad-Eye Moody? If he were alive he'd be perfect. Practically no CGI
needed either....Marty Feldman. A wonderful actor bless him, so very
talented, and what he could do with his eyes...I don't think I ever
saw a movie with him in it that wasn't hilarious!

Just throwing this out for the Group, but who would you cast?
Thanks.
               Lorrie




From dradamsapple at yahoo.com  Wed May 14 03:37:26 2003
From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 03:37:26 -0000
Subject: Is there a Doctor in the house? /Was Joanne Rowling's Doctorates
In-Reply-To: <20030513121043.74132.qmail@web21509.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b9sdlm+an5u@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Ivan Vablatsky 
<ibotsjfvxfst at y...> wrote:
>
> My answer:
>  
> Yes I accept that the person's own choice is the overriding issue. 
I have gone straight to the horse's mouth (well, as near as you can 
get) and asked JKR's agent how JKR wishes to be addressed. I quote my 
email and Christopgher Little's answer in full:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ivan Vablatsky [mailto:ibotsjfvxfst at y...]
> Sent: 13 May 2003 12:45
> To: Christopher Little
> Subject:  Dr Rowling?
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Mr Little,
> 
> We're having difficulties deciding what exactly is J K Rowling's 
proper title. Some of us think it's Doctor Rowling, others say her 
Doctorates are only honorary and so she can't be called Dr Rowling.  
It all boils down to what she herself prefers to be called, as we all 
agree.
> 
> Would you be kind enough to let us know by what title she wishes to 
be addressed?
> 
> If you would take a minute to asnwer this email I'd be very 
grateful.
> 
> Yours sincerely,
> 
> Hans Rieuwers,
> 
> Haarlem,
> 
> Netherlands
> 
> J K Rowling O.B.E.


Anna says . . .


Wow!!   I though the use of the term "Doctor" was a pretty universal 
thing.  I had no idea it varied world wide as it  does.

Being in the medical field, I've been around both MD's and Phd's for 
the past 20 years or so, and I've heard it all. 
I worked for a "Medical Director" of a major teaching, Cancer 
research center who just wanted to be called "Ken", and I've worked 
for a Phd  of a small community hospital  who insited you call 
her "Dr. B".  So, like everything else, I just figured it depended on 
the person who held the title and chose to  be called "Doctor" or not.

But I do agree that I would not choose to call someone  with an 
honoray degree "Doctor".  I mean, I believe that Steven Tyler 
(Aerosmith) just recieved an honorary degree from the Berkley College 
of music here in Boston.  So, are we calling him "Dr. Tyler"?, "Dr. 
Steve"? Sorry, but I just can't see it.

And, can someone explain what the initials O.B.E. stand for?

Thanks,

Anna . . .(who is thinking of changing her title to "Dr. of Domestic 
Engineering)

> 
>                       
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dradamsapple at yahoo.com  Wed May 14 03:55:45 2003
From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 03:55:45 -0000
Subject: Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
In-Reply-To: <b9r19t+6ko9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9seo1+gcoa@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "pengolodh_sc" 
<pengolodh_sc at y...> wrote:
> 
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter, "martha" wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> > A few years ago I came across a list of *stoopid* instructions
> > in a magazine (can't for the life of me remember what magazine
> > it was). A couple that I remember that made me laugh:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> That list has done the rounds on internet as well - here is one 
> version of it:
> 
> On a Sear's hairdryer:
> "Do not use while sleeping."
> (darn, and that's the only time I have to work on my hair)
> 
> 
> > snip < <


> Paint Stripper Heat Gun:
> "NOT TO BE USED AS A HAIRDRYER."
> (But it's quicker as I can't dry my hair while sleeping! Michael 
> Jackson & Pepsi ring any bells?)
> 
> Best regards
> Christian Stub?

Christian,

Thank you for the best laugh I've had all day!
It brought tears to my eyes!

Anna . . .




From smotgreg at hotmail.com  Wed May 14 04:05:59 2003
From: smotgreg at hotmail.com (sandon96)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 04:05:59 -0000
Subject: Joanne Rowling's Doctorates
In-Reply-To: <3EC1FE58.4283.3AFC022@localhost>
Message-ID: <b9sfb7+5nm4@eGroups.com>

Shaun Hately wrote:
> While some people have said Bill Cosby has an earned doctorate, meaning he is not 
> doing this, it's quite valid to use an Honourary Doctorate as a path to employment 
> provided you don't claim they are an academic degree. Generally an honourary degree 
> is awarded in an area the person has gained some distinction and eminence in, and it 
> tells people that the professionals in the field respect this person's achievements in that 
> area. That's certainly of potential relevance to their employment.
> 
> Provided they don't claim academic training they have not had, there's no problem here 
> - and in fact, most Honourary Doctorates (not all) are of types that are never given 
> academically so any moderately informed person (like hopefully those interviewing for a 
> position) can tell the difference from the postnominal letters.
> 

So is this how Gilderoy Lockhart bamboozled Dumbledore into the DADA 
job? Gilderoy Lockhart - Order of Merlin, Third Class, **Honorary**
Member of the Dark Force Defense League, and five time winner of Witch 
Weekly's Most-Charming-Smile Award (emphasis mine on Honorary). <grin>

Stacie (who also likes the Doctorate in Domestic Engineering)





From dradamsapple at yahoo.com  Wed May 14 04:12:34 2003
From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 04:12:34 -0000
Subject: Casting Rumors
In-Reply-To: <b9s977+vfsd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9sfni+9r47@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "stardancerofas" 
<glcherry at b...> wrote:
> 
> Now, to switch gears for one moment. Do you know who I would cast as
> Mad-Eye Moody? If he were alive he'd be perfect. Practically no CGI
> needed either....Marty Feldman. A wonderful actor bless him, so very
> talented, and what he could do with his eyes...I don't think I ever
> saw a movie with him in it that wasn't hilarious!
> 
> Just throwing this out for the Group, but who would you cast?
> Thanks.
>                Lorrie



OH, Lorrie!
Marty Felman!!  How perfect he would be!  However I don't believe he 
was British, although I would not have any doubt of his performance.

Anna . . .(who remembers laughing hysterically when the camera pans  
to "Freshly Dead", and Mr. Feldman's head appears in 'Young 
Frankenstein)




From Meliss9900 at aol.com  Wed May 14 04:29:19 2003
From: Meliss9900 at aol.com (Meliss9900 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 00:29:19 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Casting Rumors
Message-ID: <1e6.8c34fa7.2bf3201f@aol.com>

In a message dated 5/13/2003 11:13:46 PM Central Standard Time, 
dradamsapple at yahoo.com writes:

> Now, to switch gears for one moment. Do you know who I would cast as
> >Mad-Eye Moody? If he were alive he'd be perfect. Practically no CGI
> >needed either....Marty Feldman. A wonderful actor bless him, so very
> >talented, and what he could do with his eyes...I don't think I ever
> >saw a movie with him in it that wasn't hilarious!
> 

I'm going to delurk and say I can picture Ozzie Osbourne as Moody. <ducking> 
Pity he can't speak clearly any longer.

I can also sort of see Bob Hoskins.  

 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Wed May 14 06:37:32 2003
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 16:37:32 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Is there a Doctor in the house? /Was Joanne Rowling's Doctorates
In-Reply-To: <b9sdlm+an5u@eGroups.com>
References: <20030513121043.74132.qmail@web21509.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3EC270CC.25487.9843B@localhost>

On 14 May 2003 at 3:37, dradamsapple wrote:

> And, can someone explain what the initials O.B.E. stand for?

Order of the British Empire - an honour bestowed by the Queen on the advice of the 
British government - a fairly low level honour as such things go, but any such honour is 
a serious thing.

Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200

                       "Almighty Ruler of the all;
                 Whose power extends to great and small;
                 Who guides the stars with steadfast law;
                   Whose least creation fills with awe;
                     Oh grant thy mercy and thy grace;
                     To those who venture into space."




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Wed May 14 06:50:18 2003
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 16:50:18 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Casting Rumors
In-Reply-To: <b9s977+vfsd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3EC273CA.32555.1533EE@localhost>

On 14 May 2003 at 2:21, stardancerofas wrote:

> Now, to switch gears for one moment. Do you know who I would cast as
> Mad-Eye Moody? If he were alive he'd be perfect. Practically no CGI
> needed either....Marty Feldman. A wonderful actor bless him, so very
> talented, and what he could do with his eyes...I don't think I ever
> saw a movie with him in it that wasn't hilarious!
> 
> Just throwing this out for the Group, but who would you cast?
> Thanks.

Chris Ellison, who played Frank Burnside on the long running British police series, The 
Bill. I generally don't have opinions on things like who should be cast as characters in 
various shows and I'm not much good at it. But ever since I read Moody, I've thought 
'Burnside'.

Some people on the list will know who he is - most probably won't. How to describe the 
character of Burnside (who Ellison plays brilliantly). He's a senior detective and can be 
*very* nasty - bouncing Malfoy the Ferret is something he could easily do. Early on in 
his time on the Bill, many of his colleagues wonder how he could possibly have escaped 
detection in a police corruption investigation - we later find out that he was working 
undercover as an integral part of that investigation. He breaks rules when he feels they 
get in his way, but he is also *obsessed* with putting criminals away. He detests and 
despises most criminals. He's fanatically loyal to his friends.

He's done some comedy and he's done it well - but generally he's a drama actor.



Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200

                       "Almighty Ruler of the all;
                 Whose power extends to great and small;
                 Who guides the stars with steadfast law;
                   Whose least creation fills with awe;
                     Oh grant thy mercy and thy grace;
                     To those who venture into space."




From pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk  Wed May 14 06:59:54 2003
From: pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk (bluesqueak)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 06:59:54 -0000
Subject: Joanne Rowling's Doctorates
In-Reply-To: <3EC1FB78.23275.3A4829D@localhost>
Message-ID: <b9spha+ebl2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun Hately" 
<drednort at a...> wrote:
> On 13 May 2003 at 9:32, Coble, Katherine wrote:
> 
> > Mycropht says:
> > 
> > Medical Doctors are MDs.  That stands for Doctor of Medicine.  
They are
> > entitled to the Honorific.
> 
> Not in the UK. A Medical Doctor in the UK may hold an MBBS 
(Bachelor of Medicine, 
> Bachelor of Surgery) or a MBChB (Medicinae Baccalaureus, 
Chirurgiae Baccalaureus). 
> These are dual Bachelors degrees. They are a special case, and 
entitled to use the 
> courtesy title of 'Doctor' before their name (a courtesy title is 
very different from an 
> Honourary degree) as a matter of tradition. The distinction comes 
from the way Medical 
> education is handled. In the US, a Medical Doctor undertakes 
further education after 
> their basic degree (which may be in an area specifically designed 
to lead to 
> postgraduate study in Medicine) - in the UK, they can start 
formally training as a medical 
> Doctor as an undergraduate. This doesn't preclude British medical 
doctors from holding 
> academic Doctorates - but it's not a requirement.

I'm a bit puzzled, Shaun. The Medical Degree in the UK is MB. It 
does not qualify you to call yourself 'Doctor'. To do *that* you 
have to register with the General Medical Council, and take a year 
of further training in a hospital.

A medical doctor in the UK trains for 6 years (5 years degree, one 
final year hospital training). A PhD in the UK trains for 6 years (3 
years undergraduate, 3 yrs Postgraduate). Same length of time.

> 
> The fact that MBBS and MBChBs are entitled to call themselves 
Doctors has nothing to 
> do with their holding Honourary Degrees - most do *not* hold any 
such degree. It's a 
> courtesy based on longstanding tradition. Incidentally, British 
surgeons - who have gone 
> on to obtain more than their basic medical training - are 
traditionally called 'Mister' - so a 
> 'Doctor' becomes a 'Mister' when he becomes more qualified. Again, 
it's a matter of 
> tradition. And the traditions don't always slip neatly into the 
hard and fast academic 
> rules.
> 
Yup. It's a tradition developed from the fact that surgeons didn't 
used to be academically trained; physicians always were. The 
physicians used to insult the surgeons by calling them 'Mister', the 
surgeons took it up as a badge of honour.

Nowadays, Mister Brown the surgeon probably has enough letters after 
his name to provide alphabet soup to the entire hospital.


Pip




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Wed May 14 07:38:51 2003
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 17:38:51 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Joanne Rowling's Doctorates
In-Reply-To: <b9spha+ebl2@eGroups.com>
References: <3EC1FB78.23275.3A4829D@localhost>
Message-ID: <3EC27F2B.25142.41A711@localhost>

On 14 May 2003 at 6:59, bluesqueak wrote:

> I'm a bit puzzled, Shaun. The Medical Degree in the UK is MB. It 
> does not qualify you to call yourself 'Doctor'. To do *that* you 
> have to register with the General Medical Council, and take a year 
> of further training in a hospital.

Yes, but it's not training for a specific degree. It's additional training over degree 
training. The person does not have an academic doctorate.

And, I believe, it is rather unusual for a Medical doctor to have only an MB - most 
universities couple it with the BS or ChB automatically yielding MBBS or MBChB. This is 
a five year course, so I would assume it's what you are referring to - and it's a dual 
degree.

A single degree will allow for registration under the Medical Act 1983 but it is unusual for 
a Medical Doctor to only have the MB. In fact, I can't find any example of a Medical 
doctor with only the MB, but not the BS or ChB. I presume it's possible because the Act 
allows for it, and they wouldn't bother if it couldn't happen, but everything I have seen on 
this indicates the dual degree is near universal.


















> 
> A medical doctor in the UK trains for 6 years (5 years degree, one 
> final year hospital training). A PhD in the UK trains for 6 years (3 
> years undergraduate, 3 yrs Postgraduate). Same length of time.
> 
> > 
> > The fact that MBBS and MBChBs are entitled to call themselves 
> Doctors has nothing to 
> > do with their holding Honourary Degrees - most do *not* hold any 
> such degree. It's a 
> > courtesy based on longstanding tradition. Incidentally, British 
> surgeons - who have gone 
> > on to obtain more than their basic medical training - are 
> traditionally called 'Mister' - so a 
> > 'Doctor' becomes a 'Mister' when he becomes more qualified. Again, 
> it's a matter of 
> > tradition. And the traditions don't always slip neatly into the 
> hard and fast academic 
> > rules.
> > 
> Yup. It's a tradition developed from the fact that surgeons didn't 
> used to be academically trained; physicians always were. The 
> physicians used to insult the surgeons by calling them 'Mister', the 
> surgeons took it up as a badge of honour.
> 
> Nowadays, Mister Brown the surgeon probably has enough letters after 
> his name to provide alphabet soup to the entire hospital.
> 
> 
> Pip
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 

Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200

                       "Almighty Ruler of the all;
                 Whose power extends to great and small;
                 Who guides the stars with steadfast law;
                   Whose least creation fills with awe;
                     Oh grant thy mercy and thy grace;
                     To those who venture into space."




From jmd at jvf.co.uk  Wed May 14 08:26:02 2003
From: jmd at jvf.co.uk (Jeremy Davis)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 09:26:02 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Joanne Rowling's Doctorates
References: <b9spha+ebl2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <005101c319f2$76a3c450$0e010001@jmd2000>

Bluesqueak said :
> Yup. It's a tradition developed from the fact that surgeons didn't
> used to be academically trained; physicians always were. The
> physicians used to insult the surgeons by calling them 'Mister', the
> surgeons took it up as a badge of honour.
>
> Nowadays, Mister Brown the surgeon probably has enough letters after
> his name to provide alphabet soup to the entire hospital.

Mr father-in-law Dr Yardley PhD always teases his daughter Dr Rivett MBChB
about not being a *proper* Dr!!!

Also my father-in-law has a PhD in Mechanical Mathematics (whatever that
means!!). He is a University lecturer. Just because he is a university
lecturer does NOT mean he can call himself *Professor* Yardley. In the UK
you have to be awarded your Professorship for your work, which would in
general take 10s of years. It winds him up that leacturers in the US all
seem to be called *Professor* just because the teach at a Univesity.
(Correct me if I'm wrong). For that matter why are ALL the teachers a
Hogwarts call *Professor* and not some *Doctor*????




From Ripleywriter at aol.com  Wed May 14 10:11:42 2003
From: Ripleywriter at aol.com (Ripleywriter at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 06:11:42 EDT
Subject: Need help finding some Harry Potter pictures, please 
Message-ID: <157.1f4a2ef2.2bf3705e@aol.com>

Hi, 

   Does anyone know where I can find a copy of that fabulous picture of 
Hogwarts at night, with the kids coming up in the boats, the castle before 
them, the moon in the sky partially covered by a cloud... I have it as my 
desktop for goodness sake, but I don't remember where I got it and a search 
on google is proving useless. I'm looking for a copy without writing on it, 
without fog in the pic; crisp and clear, not too dark, not grainy w/ light. 

  That, and the pic with Harry and Draco facing off with their teams behind 
them all decked out in their Quidditch gear. It was taken for the CoS movie, 
and I've been unable to find it, too. And any place where I can get clear, 
good copies of any/all the movie posters without going to allposters.com or 
some such place. I've been having a surprisingly tough time with all of 
these. Not for lack of looking, but I'm bad with finding pics. There are like 
a gazillion HP sites out there and when it comes to pictures I don't know the 
best places to look. 

I'd appreciate any help!

Melly
P.S. The tear-off desk calendars are an excellent source of pictures from the 
movies; does anybody know if anyone has these all scanned a particular place? 



From Ripleywriter at aol.com  Wed May 14 10:15:46 2003
From: Ripleywriter at aol.com (Ripleywriter at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 06:15:46 EDT
Subject: Eep! to my last post
Message-ID: <1a4.1461abcb.2bf37152@aol.com>


Yipes! Never mind about my last post, the first part that is, the one about 
that pic of Hogwarts. I sent that e-mail and two seconds later I find it. I 
really, really hate when that happens. :o)

Melly



From hp at plum.cream.org  Wed May 14 10:37:13 2003
From: hp at plum.cream.org (GulPlum)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 11:37:13 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Need help finding some Harry Potter
  pictures, please
In-Reply-To: <157.1f4a2ef2.2bf3705e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20030514113415.0098aab0@plum.cream.org>

Melly wrote:

<snip request for desktop pictures>

I don't mean to be plugging my own efforts, but apart from the Quidditch 
photo you mentioned, desktop-sized versions of everything else you asked 
for can be found on my site:

http://plum.cream.org/HP/wallpaper.htm

HTH :-)




From Ripleywriter at aol.com  Wed May 14 10:36:37 2003
From: Ripleywriter at aol.com (Ripleywriter at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 06:36:37 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
Message-ID: <3d.2f92785b.2bf37635@aol.com>


This isn't a product warning, but actually a bit of advice on my beverage. 
Lol, sometimes I'm not sure which ones I enjoy more, the advice or the 
warnings...

On my bottle of Lipton Iced Tea it says: " Real is Refreshing. If you want a 
"cooler" drink, stick it in the 'fridge." 

People, man. I wonder who thought that up, and who agreed to put it on the 
label. 

I tend to enjoy those "For external use only" warnings, too.

Melly




From heidit at netbox.com  Wed May 14 11:31:43 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 07:31:43 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Need help finding some Harry Potter pictures, please
Message-ID: <mailman.45.1576049046.5361.hpfgu-otchatter@archive.hpfgu.org>

Have you tried The-Leaky-Cauldron.org? We have a lot of images - scanned, linked to, etc. There's a search on the front page to help you find things. Or try using google.com's image search. Enter a description of what you want to see and it *should* find it for you. 


Heidi Tandy
*Ask me about Nimbus - 2003*
Http://www.hp2003.org. 
-----Original Message-----
From: Ripleywriter at aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 06:11:42 
To:hpfgu-otchatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Need help finding some Harry Potter pictures, please

Real-To:  Ripleywriter at aol.com

Hi, 

   Does anyone know where I can find a copy of that fabulous picture of 
Hogwarts at night, with the kids coming up in the boats, the castle before 
them, the moon in the sky partially covered by a cloud... I have it as my 
desktop for goodness sake, but I don't remember where I got it and a search 
on google is proving useless. I'm looking for a copy without writing on it, 
without fog in the pic; crisp and clear, not too dark, not grainy w/ light. 

  That, and the pic with Harry and Draco facing off with their teams behind 
them all decked out in their Quidditch gear. It was taken for the CoS movie, 
and I've been unable to find it, too. And any place where I can get clear, 
good copies of any/all the movie posters without going to allposters.com or 
some such place. I've been having a surprisingly tough time with all of 
these. Not for lack of looking, but I'm bad with finding pics. There are like 
a gazillion HP sites out there and when it comes to pictures I don't know the 
best places to look. 

I'd appreciate any help!

Melly
P.S. The tear-off desk calendars are an excellent source of pictures from the 
movies; does anybody know if anyone has these all scanned a particular place? 


________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/

Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying!

Is your message...
An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com

Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
____________________________________________________________ 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 





From heidit at netbox.com  Wed May 14 11:31:43 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 07:31:43 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Need help finding some Harry Potter pictures, please
Message-ID: <mailman.46.1576049046.5361.hpfgu-otchatter@archive.hpfgu.org>

Have you tried The-Leaky-Cauldron.org? We have a lot of images - scanned, linked to, etc. There's a search on the front page to help you find things. Or try using google.com's image search. Enter a description of what you want to see and it *should* find it for you. 


Heidi Tandy
*Ask me about Nimbus - 2003*
Http://www.hp2003.org. 
-----Original Message-----
From: Ripleywriter at aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 06:11:42 
To:hpfgu-otchatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Need help finding some Harry Potter pictures, please

Real-To:  Ripleywriter at aol.com

Hi, 

   Does anyone know where I can find a copy of that fabulous picture of 
Hogwarts at night, with the kids coming up in the boats, the castle before 
them, the moon in the sky partially covered by a cloud... I have it as my 
desktop for goodness sake, but I don't remember where I got it and a search 
on google is proving useless. I'm looking for a copy without writing on it, 
without fog in the pic; crisp and clear, not too dark, not grainy w/ light. 

  That, and the pic with Harry and Draco facing off with their teams behind 
them all decked out in their Quidditch gear. It was taken for the CoS movie, 
and I've been unable to find it, too. And any place where I can get clear, 
good copies of any/all the movie posters without going to allposters.com or 
some such place. I've been having a surprisingly tough time with all of 
these. Not for lack of looking, but I'm bad with finding pics. There are like 
a gazillion HP sites out there and when it comes to pictures I don't know the 
best places to look. 

I'd appreciate any help!

Melly
P.S. The tear-off desk calendars are an excellent source of pictures from the 
movies; does anybody know if anyone has these all scanned a particular place? 


________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/

Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying!

Is your message...
An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com

Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
____________________________________________________________ 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 





From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Wed May 14 12:06:37 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 05:06:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
In-Reply-To: <3d.2f92785b.2bf37635@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20030514120637.14146.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Melly wrote:
> 
> This isn't a product warning, but actually a
> bit of advice on my beverage. 
> Lol, sometimes I'm not sure which ones I enjoy
> more, the advice or the 
> warnings...


Lynn:

My favorite advice of all time is something I
learned about during a comedy routine by Howie
Mandrel.  He was doing a bit about his wife
having a baby and was talking about the advice
sheet they gave during labor.  One of the things
that was advised was that you should not have sex
in the labor room.  He pointed out that someone
must have tried having sex while in the hospital
in the labor room. That led to more comedy
routine.

I thought all this was very funny until, you
guessed it, I was in the labor room in the
Netherlands and the nurse advised my husband that
now was not a good time to have sex.  When he
translated the advice, I totally cracked up which
thoroughly confused the nurse since she was very
serious about it.  

Then I thought of another reason that advice
might be given.  Some idiot must have suggested
it to his wife and she tried to kill him or do a
Bobbit on him.  ROFL.

Lynn

=====
For the international news that's fit to print
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cnnworldnewsq-a

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com



From katherine.coble at crgibson.com  Wed May 14 13:36:24 2003
From: katherine.coble at crgibson.com (Coble, Katherine)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 09:36:24 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Casting Rumors
Message-ID: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3F58@teserver01.treat.net>

Stardancerofas Frightened me by saying:


> There is a rumor, and I stress 'rumor' that Rowan Atkinson (of Mr.
> Bean fame) has been cast, of all people as Lord Voldemort.
> 
> 
Mycropht:

Okay.  I almost said this as a *joke* the other day in my David Thewlis
thread.  They cannot be serious.
Although I _do_ prefer Rowan from BlackAdder.  He could be quite villainous
to poor Baldrick.  He was also
pretty wicked in _The Tall Guy_  (one of my favourite films).  

But I'm just not seeing it for LV.   Rowan as Lord Voldemort is absurd.   I
could see Rowan, however, in all of his
BlackAdder Smarm as Karakoff.

Lorrie (who is stardancerofas, I guess) also likes Marty Feldman.
> Now, to switch gears for one moment. Do you know who I would cast as
> Mad-Eye Moody? If he were alive he'd be perfect. Practically no CGI
> needed either....Marty Feldman. A wonderful actor bless him, so very
> talented, and what he could do with his eyes...I don't think I ever
> saw a movie with him in it that wasn't hilarious!
> 
Mycropht:
	I just don't see Marty Feldman being as gravely gruff as the part
calls for.  Somebody said Steve Buscemi, which makes my skin crawl, but
there you have it.  A matter of taste.   

	Mycropht
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From katherine.coble at crgibson.com  Wed May 14 13:38:36 2003
From: katherine.coble at crgibson.com (Coble, Katherine)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 09:38:36 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Is there a Doctor in the house? /Was Joanne
	 Rowling's Doctorates
Message-ID: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3F59@teserver01.treat.net>


> Anna says . . .
> 
> 
> And, can someone explain what the initials O.B.E. stand for?
> 
	Mycropht:

	Order of the British Empire.


	It's a form of knighthood, or a rank below knighthood or something.
I think the Queen gives them out so she can meet famous people.

	Mycropht


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------- 
 This e-mail and any attachments may contain information which is
confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise protected by law. The
information is solely intended for the named addressee (or a person
responsible for delivering it to the addressee). If you are not the intended
recipient of this message, you are not authorized to read, print, retain,
copy or disseminate this message or any part of it. If you have received
this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail
and delete it from your computer.



From psychic_serpent at yahoo.com  Wed May 14 13:27:11 2003
From: psychic_serpent at yahoo.com (psychic_serpent)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 13:27:11 -0000
Subject: Joanne Rowling's Doctorates
In-Reply-To: <005101c319f2$76a3c450$0e010001@jmd2000>
Message-ID: <b9tg7f+oii0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy Davis" <jmd at j...> 
wrote:
It winds him up that leacturers in the US all seem to be called 
*Professor* just because the teach at a Univesity. (Correct me if 
I'm wrong). For that matter why are ALL the teachers a Hogwarts call 
*Professor* and not some *Doctor*????

Me:

At most universities and colleges with which I am familiar, there 
are different levels of employment for instructors that do not 
necessarily  have a direct correlation to how many degrees the 
instructor has, especially as some fields do not offer doctorates.  

Lowest in the pecking order are 'instructors' or 'lecturers,' who 
may be grad students or people with just master's degrees--this is 
entry-level for them--rather than doctorates.  Many of these folks 
are 'adjunct professors,' who are part-timers; adjuncts can have any 
level of education from mere bachelor's degrees in a field to 
multiple doctorates.  It just means they're not full-time 
employees.  Then you have 'assistant professors' (although they 
teach alone--it is not meant to imply that they help someone else 
teach).  They probably have a minimum of a master's degree, although 
this is the entry level, usually, for people with doctorates. (They 
can also be adjuncts.)  'Associate professors' are also usually solo 
teachers; it's one step up from 'assistant professor' and usually 
pays more money and requires a certain amount of teaching experience 
combined with publishing.  You're less likely to have to do grunt 
work like teaching huge freshman lectures, although that probably 
depends upon the school, but you're also less likely to be an 
adjunct.  

And then there are 'full professors,' who actually seldom teach--
although some do--and are usually department heads and researchers 
who direct students writing master's theses and doctoral 
dissertations. If you are a 'full professor,' it means that you have 
tenure.  Technically, these are the only people who should be 
called 'Professor Brown,' or whatever, although most schools refer 
to the teaching staff in general as 'the professors' and the 
title 'Professor' can be considered an abbreviation of 'assistant 
professor' or 'associate professor.'  Tenure generally comes after 
having taught for quite a number of years and attaining a certain 
level of recognition in one's field ('publish or perish' isn't just 
a catchy adage).  

Full professors are becoming rarer and rarer because schools must 
offer certain perks to tenured instructors and university budgets 
are incredibly tight these days.  That's why so many schools are 
going the route of having numerous adjunct professors who must drive 
from school to school, teaching one class at each place in order to 
make ends meet.  And that's also why teachers' unions are fighting 
so arduously against schools being permitted to hire more than a 
certain percentage of part-time teaching staff.  If the schools had 
their way there would probably be no full professors and no one with 
tenure.   

The last time I called a professor 'Professor' he was a seventy-ish 
Swiss religion teacher overseeing a graduate-level seminar who, by 
the end of the term, had us all calling him 'Sam.'  Most instructors 
I know do not stand on ceremony and have relaxed and dialogue-driven 
classes where titles like this would impede the swift exchange of 
ideas.  From what I've seen, it's largely freshmen in their first 
terms at university who all call their teachers 'Professor.'  
They're a bit overwhelmed by this new world, I think, and are afraid 
of showing disrespect to their teachers.  That wears off quickly. ;)

JKR has said that there is no wizarding university, so I don't know 
how witches and wizards would attain doctorates and therefore be 
called 'Doctor.'  I think it's possible that 'Professor' is a job 
title for those who teach full time; they have a sort of tenure, it 
seems.  In contrast, Madam Hooch does not teach full time; only the 
first years seem to require instruction in flying, and refereeing 
six Quidditch matches a year would not take up much more of her 
time.  Madam Pince, the librarian, also probably does not work full 
time, at at any rate, she does not teach and would not qualify for 
the title 'Professor.'  Madam Pomfrey also does not teach.  I cannot 
remember right now whether Dumbledore has ever referred to Hagrid 
as 'Professor Hagrid' now that he is teaching, but it's possible 
that because he never finished school that will not happen (or it 
might be because everyone has just been in the habit of calling him 
plain old 'Hagrid' for so long that it would be too difficult to 
change).

--Barb

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychic_Serpent
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb





From cindysphinx at comcast.net  Wed May 14 13:52:54 2003
From: cindysphinx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 13:52:54 -0000
Subject: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
Message-ID: <b9thnm+pf26@eGroups.com>

Hey,

I saw this in today's Washington Post, and I thought I'd test you 
guys.  Please, if you know the answer from reading about this in the 
media, let's keep the answer a secret and let folks who didn't read 
the story have a go.  

OK.  

A major standardized test in the U.S. asked students whether there 
was an error in grammar in the following sentence:

"Toni Morrison's genius enables her to create novels that arise from 
and express the injustices African Americans have endured."

Yes, there is an error (although the testing bureau denied that 
there was an scored "no error" as the correct answer).  A panel of 
outside experts in grammar was hired to rule, and they identified an 
error in grammar, forcing the testing bureau to re-score the exam.

What is the error?

Cindy -- who could not find the error




From alexpie at aol.com  Wed May 14 15:04:44 2003
From: alexpie at aol.com (alexpie at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 11:04:44 EDT
Subject: Egg creams
Message-ID: <91.2de1c7d2.2bf3b50c@aol.com>

In a message dated 5/13/03 9:41:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com writes:

> The one that I will NEVER comprehend is the "egg cream".  There's NO egg in
> it.  Anyone from Brooklyn care to explain?!
> 

Am I the only Brooklyn native on this list?  Must be.  Both the "egg" and the 
"cream" refer to the drink's luxurious taste, not its composition.
Sole ingredients are:
chocolate syrup (Fox's U-Bet)
ice-cold milk 
ice-cold seltzer, preferably shot from  a real seltzer bottle
pretzel rod, extra salty, optional

Some weirdos apparently drink vanilla egg creams, but I've never met one.
Ba, proud Brooklyn native and cookbook editor who now lives "over the bridge"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From jmd at jvf.co.uk  Wed May 14 14:25:36 2003
From: jmd at jvf.co.uk (Jeremy Davis)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 15:25:36 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] WANTED:  Grammar Expert
References: <b9thnm+pf26@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <002501c31a24$b18a6dd0$0e010001@jmd2000>

Comma before the "and"????

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cindy C." <cindysphinx at comcast.net>
To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 2:52 PM
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] WANTED: Grammar Expert


> Hey,
>
> I saw this in today's Washington Post, and I thought I'd test you
> guys.  Please, if you know the answer from reading about this in the
> media, let's keep the answer a secret and let folks who didn't read
> the story have a go.
>
> OK.
>
> A major standardized test in the U.S. asked students whether there
> was an error in grammar in the following sentence:
>
> "Toni Morrison's genius enables her to create novels that arise from
> and express the injustices African Americans have endured."
>
> Yes, there is an error (although the testing bureau denied that
> there was an scored "no error" as the correct answer).  A panel of
> outside experts in grammar was hired to rule, and they identified an
> error in grammar, forcing the testing bureau to re-score the exam.
>
> What is the error?
>
> Cindy -- who could not find the error
>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material
from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- 
MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
> Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




From absinthe at mad.scientist.com  Wed May 14 15:01:40 2003
From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (Milz)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 15:01:40 -0000
Subject: Spiderwick Chronicles
Message-ID: <b9tlok+edpa@eGroups.com>

Wow, it's been a very looong time since I've posted;-)

Anyhow, I was wondering if anyone here has read the "Spiderwick 
Chronicles" by Holly Black. I skimmed through a copy at my local 
Borders yesterday and thought it was rather similar to the Lemony 
Snicket books: 3 siblings (the eldest a teenaged girl), each sibling 
has their own strength (Snicket characters strengths seem more 
intellectual, Spiderwick children strengths are more physical) and 
a "warning" not to read the book.

Comments?

Milz




From absinthe at mad.scientist.com  Wed May 14 14:51:45 2003
From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (Milz)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 14:51:45 -0000
Subject: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
In-Reply-To: <b9thnm+pf26@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9tl61+i1ui@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." <cindysphinx at c...> 
wrote:
> Hey,
> 
> I saw this in today's Washington Post, and I thought I'd test you 
> guys.  Please, if you know the answer from reading about this in 
the 
> media, let's keep the answer a secret and let folks who didn't read 
> the story have a go.  
> 
> OK.  
> 
> A major standardized test in the U.S. asked students whether there 
> was an error in grammar in the following sentence:
> 
> "Toni Morrison's genius enables her to create novels that arise 
from 
> and express the injustices African Americans have endured."
> 
> Yes, there is an error (although the testing bureau denied that 
> there was an scored "no error" as the correct answer).  A panel of 
> outside experts in grammar was hired to rule, and they identified 
an 
> error in grammar, forcing the testing bureau to re-score the exam.
> 
> What is the error?
> 
> Cindy -- who could not find the error

I think it's the in the descriptive clause "that arise from and 
express the injustices". The clause describes "novels". So the plural 
of "arise" and "express" should be used.

Milz




From karnasaur at yahoo.com  Wed May 14 16:25:23 2003
From: karnasaur at yahoo.com (Kristjan Arnason)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 09:25:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Casting rumours...
In-Reply-To: <1052921772.1016.90733.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030514162523.2315.qmail@web10409.mail.yahoo.com>

For Mad Eye Moody I have only ever imagined Sean
Connery.  I can't even picture anyone else.  I
pictured him as Moody when I read his entrance in GoF
the first time.

K

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com



From katherine.coble at crgibson.com  Wed May 14 16:34:23 2003
From: katherine.coble at crgibson.com (Coble, Katherine)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 12:34:23 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] WANTED:  Grammar Expert
Message-ID: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3F5F@teserver01.treat.net>

	Cindy asks:

> > Hey,
> >
> > I saw this in today's Washington Post, and I thought I'd test you
> > guys.   Please, if you know the answer from reading about this in the
> > media, let's keep the answer a secret and let folks who didn't read
> > the story have a go.
> >
> > OK.
> >
> > A major standardized test in the U.S. asked students whether there
> > was an error in grammar in the following sentence:
> >
> > "Toni Morrison's genius enables her to create novels that arise from
> > and express the injustices African Americans have endured."
> >
> > Yes, there is an error (although the testing bureau denied that
> > there was an scored "no error" as the correct answer).   A panel of
> > outside experts in grammar was hired to rule, and they identified an
> > error in grammar, forcing the testing bureau to re-score the exam.
> >
> > What is the error?
> 
Mycropht, who is paid to edit things says :

1.  I personally think that African-American should be hyphenated.
2. This is the most awkward sentence.  There is a vague antecedant for the
pronoun "her".  Is the antecedant "Toni Morrison" or "genius"?  Does Toni
have a pet genius that lives with her, also female.  As highly unlikely as
that is, when there are two nouns before a pronoun it can be classed as an
error.

Mycropht is anal about grammar.


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From illyana at mindspring.com  Wed May 14 16:49:34 2003
From: illyana at mindspring.com (illyana delorean)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 09:49:34 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] WANTED:  Grammar Expert
In-Reply-To: <b9thnm+pf26@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <0ADBB272-862C-11D7-9877-003065B8B954@mindspring.com>


On Wednesday, May 14, 2003, at 06:52  , Cindy C. wrote:

> A major standardized test in the U.S. asked students whether there
> was an error in grammar in the following sentence:
>
> "Toni Morrison's genius enables her to create novels that arise from
> and express the injustices African Americans have endured."
>
> What is the error?
>
>

I've got two guesses.

1. "Toni Morrison's genius enables her to create novels that arise 
from, and express, the injustices African Amercians have endured."
2. "Toni Morrison's genius enables her to create novels that arise from 
and express the injustices endured by African Americans."

And, to the person who said that "arise" and "express" should be 
pluralized because "novels" is plural - that's not how it works. (You 
can't really pluralize those words, anyway, so I am assuming you mean 
to add "s" or "es" to them.)

illyana (what's the answer?!)


S1.3 MIL+++ RWG++# FRI++ CBG++ P&S-- f++/+++ n- $++++ 9F13, 1F22, 2F13, 
3F02, 3F05, 3F15, 4F01, 4F08, 4F11, 4F19 F1980

HPGCv1
a22 e+ x+* Rm Ri HP4 S+++ Mo++ HG+/VK++ HaP+/SS+++& FGW++ DM++& VC-- 
GG-- CD+ VK++ SS+++& PT--- AF-- MM++ RL++ O+m FAo F- Sl FHo SfD

"What's the point in having a Honda if you can't show it off?" - 
Superintendent Chalmers

visit my livejournal! http://www.livejournal.com/users/illyanadmc


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Wed May 14 17:00:12 2003
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 17:00:12 -0000
Subject: OBE
In-Reply-To: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3F59@teserver01.treat.net>
Message-ID: <b9tsms+pp60@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter, "Shaun Hately" wrote:
> On 14 May 2003 at 3:37, dradamsapple wrote:
> > And, can someone explain what the initials O.B.E. stand for?
> 
> Order of the British Empire - an honour bestowed by the Queen on
> the advice of the British government - a fairly low level honour as
> such things go, but any such honour is a serious thing.

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter, "Coble, Katherine" wrote:
> 	Mycropht:
> 
> 	Order of the British Empire.
> 
> 
> 	It's a form of knighthood, or a rank below knighthood or
> something.  I think the Queen gives them out so she can meet
> famous people.

To clarify - in the case of the honour that has been awarded to Mrs 
Rowling, the postnominal letters do not stand for "Order of the 
British Empire".  The full name of the order is "The Most Excellent 
Order of the British Empire", and it is one of six British orders of 
honour in existence today.  It was formed in 1917 to reward service 
to the British Empire in the United Kingdom and abroad. Originally it 
had only a civil division, but a military division was added in 1918 
to acknowledge distinguished military service of a non-combative 
nature.  There are five classes of award (and also an associated 
medal, the British Empire Medal (BEM), which ranks considerably below 
the other classes).  The five ranks, with postnominal letters, from 
lowest to highest, are listed below:

MBE - Member of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire
OBE - Officer of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire
CBE - Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire
KBE/DBE - Knight (or Dame) Commander of the Most Excellent Order of 
the British Empire
GBE - Knight (or Dame) Grand Cross of the Most Excellent Order of the 
British Empire

If one is made a member of either KBE/DBE rank or GBE rank one is 
entitled to use the prefix "Sir" if male, "Dame" if female.  The wife 
of a knight will normally be allowed the style "Lady".  There is a 
limit to hwo many members an order can have at any given time, 
particularly at the higher levels.  If the Crown is in the position 
where a person clearly deserves to be made a knight of an order, but 
no suitable order has any room, that person can be made a Knight 
Bachelor, which does not result in membership in any Order of Honour, 
but does give the person the title and accolade of being a knight.  
He can later be moved to one of the Orders of Honour.

There is an order of precedence between the various orders of 
chivalry, too:
The Most Noble Order of the Garter (sovereign Order of Honour, 1 
class)
The Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of the Thistle (sovereign Order 
of Honour, 1 class)
The Most Honourable Order of the Bath (3 classes)
The Most Distinguished Order of St Michael and St George (3 classes)
The Royal victorian Order (5 classes)
The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire (5 classes)

Of these, the Order of the Garter, the Order of the Thistle, and the 
Royal Victorian Order are, as far as I know, conferred by The 
Sovereign in exercise of the Royal Prerogative, meaning that the 
government does not get to influence the awards of membership in 
those Orders of Honour.

Being made an OBE is not that small an honour - as far as I can 
determine from the order of precedence (as based on that issued by 
the Governor-General for Australia April 4 2002, not counting the 
purely Australian honours - pdf-document:  
http://www.itsanhonour.gov.au/pdf/OrderOfWearing.pdf ) it is the 23rd 
highest ranking honour that is awarded within the United Kingdom, 
aside from life peerages.

The reason for the existence of the various Orders of Honour, as well 
as the other British Honours, is that the British government has a 
requirement for various ways of honouring citizens that have made 
various services to the nation.  A large portion of those awarded 
these Honours are not famous people, but everyday people, Honoured by 
the government for long and dedicated service in some form or other.

Best regards
Christian Stub?




From selene at earthlink.net  Wed May 14 15:53:39 2003
From: selene at earthlink.net (Susan Fox-Davis)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 08:53:39 -0700
Subject: Casting Rumors
Message-ID: <3EC26682.6DA9B3DC@earthlink.net>

Lorrie wrote:

> Now, to switch gears for one moment. Do you know who I would cast as
> Mad-Eye Moody? If he were alive he'd be perfect. Practically no CGI
> needed either....Marty Feldman. A wonderful actor bless him, so very
> talented, and what he could do with his eyes...I don't think I ever
> saw a movie with him in it that wasn't hilarious!

Then Anna wrote:
>OH, Lorrie!
>Marty Felman!!  How perfect he would be!  However I don't believe he
>was British, although I would not have any doubt of his performance.

Nope, Brit.  I love IMDB.  <http://us.imdb.com/Name?Feldman,+Marty>
Born in London, England, 8 July 1933, son of immigrants from Kiev.
Died in Mexico City of a heart attack following shellfish poisoning on
the last day of filming a scene from Yellowbeard  in which he was
supposed to die. A double completed the death scene.  Now that's what I
call taking the Stanislavsky Method too far!

Susan Fox-Davis






From katherine.coble at crgibson.com  Wed May 14 16:40:58 2003
From: katherine.coble at crgibson.com (Coble, Katherine)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 12:40:58 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
Message-ID: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3F60@teserver01.treat.net>

	Cindy's Grammar Question:

> > 
> > A major standardized test in the U.S. asked students whether there 
> > was an error in grammar in the following sentence:
> > 
> > "Toni Morrison's genius enables her to create novels that arise 
> from 
> > and express the injustices African Americans have endured."
> 
Milz' answer, which makes Mycropht's eyes bleed:
> I think it's the in the descriptive clause "that arise from and 
> express the injustices". The clause describes "novels". So the plural 
> of "arise" and "express" should be used.
> 
> 
Mycropht, screaming in terror:

Ack! No, please no!  Both "Arise" and "express" are in subject-verb
agreement already.  They're really okay.  

I still maintain the error is in the Modifier for the pronoun.  

Mycropht


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From absinthe at mad.scientist.com  Wed May 14 17:50:39 2003
From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (Milz)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 17:50:39 -0000
Subject: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
In-Reply-To: <b9tl61+i1ui@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9tvlf+n943@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Milz" <absinthe at m...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." 
<cindysphinx at c...> 
> wrote:
> > Hey,
> > 
> > I saw this in today's Washington Post, and I thought I'd test you 
> > guys.  Please, if you know the answer from reading about this in 
> the 
> > media, let's keep the answer a secret and let folks who didn't 
read 
> > the story have a go.  
> > 
> > OK.  
> > 
> > A major standardized test in the U.S. asked students whether 
there 
> > was an error in grammar in the following sentence:
> > 
> > "Toni Morrison's genius enables her to create novels that arise 
> from 
> > and express the injustices African Americans have endured."
> > 
> > Yes, there is an error (although the testing bureau denied that 
> > there was an scored "no error" as the correct answer).  A panel 
of 
> > outside experts in grammar was hired to rule, and they identified 
> an 
> > error in grammar, forcing the testing bureau to re-score the exam.
> > 
> > What is the error?
> > 
> > Cindy -- who could not find the error
> 
> I think it's the in the descriptive clause "that arise from and 
> express the injustices". The clause describes "novels". So the 
plural 
> of "arise" and "express" should be used.
> 
> Milz

I think my brain was on stand-by with that post. So completely 
disregard it....

I still think the error has something to do with clause agreement. OR 
it has to do with the final portion. Maybe it should read "...African 
Americans endure"

Milz




From heidit at netbox.com  Wed May 14 18:42:35 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (heiditandy)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 18:42:35 -0000
Subject: Meetups, Travel + Disney-related Updates from Nimbus - 2003
Message-ID: <b9u2mr+gnu4@eGroups.com>

(sorry about the cross-post but as rates go up tomorrow, we wanted 
to make sure everyone knew...)

We've got a lot of travel- and recreation-oriented updates today, so 
we'll just toss them our, 1-2-3... but first...

Just a reminder that you have a little over 24 hours to take 
advantage of the $149.75 registration fee before the registration 
costs go up again. 

1. We know a lot of you are ready to make your flight arrangements. 
OneTravel.com, a collective website made from small travel agencies 
worldwide, has offered a slight discount to travellers making their 
plans for Nimbus -  2003. 

You can access their flight search here: 
http://eair.onetravel.com/index.cfm?action=FBHome&DK=1000010946 
(note: you may need to cut & paste the link - or you can follow it 
right from the travel page at 
http://www.hp2003.org/nimbustravel.html.

2. The Swan's made it possible for you to pre-order discounted 
passes to the parks - you can go here: https://secure.hes-
services.com/wdwticket/swandolphin03.asp. In addition to the regular 
passes, all of which are available at discounts, you can also get a 
very nifty "After 2" pass, which will allow you to get into one park 
per day at a price that's about 30% off the cost of a full day pass. 
And given that the Magic Kingdom is open until after 9 each night, 
and EPCOT and MGM are both open until 9, it's a pretty good deal. 
FYI, the park hours are also now available here: 
http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/waltdisneyworld/parksandmore/parkhou
rs/parkhoursindex?id=SEAllParksLocationCrit&date=72003

3.  Nimbus - 2003 has been added to MeetUp.com's listing of Harry 
Potter gatherings worldwide. For those of you who do not know, 
MeetUp.com is a service that connects people through a series of 
monthly meetings, all held in public places like bookstores or 
coffee shops. The Harry Potter MeetUps are on the third Tuesday of 
each month at 8:00 pm local time, and they have other MeetUps for 
subgroups of Harry Potter fans. They'll also be holding a one-time 
MeetUp on the evening of June 20.

We're very pleased that Nimbus - 2003 is now included in the list of 
gatherings that will occur this spring and summer through MeetUp.com.

For more information about MeetUp and the Harry Potter gatherings, 
visit the Harry Potter-focused sections of their website at:

harrypotter.meetup.com
hpforgrownups.meetup.com
seanbiggerstaff.meetup.com
alanrickman.meetup.com
danielradcliffe.meetup.com

And we can't divulge all the info just yet, but we can give a sneak 
preview of the fact that Nimbus - 2003 is thrilled that The-Leaky-
Cauldron.org is going to be a great resource for information about 
OoTP release events - keep your eye on that site (and our links 
section here) for more information!

Any questions?

Heidi for Nimbus - 2003

PS - we still have a number of programming sessions which are 
available for sponsorship! Check out 
http://www.hp2003.org/nimbuspgmsponsor.html for more details, or ask 
us about the process at sponsor at hp2003.org!




From joy_the_lemur at yahoo.com  Wed May 14 18:50:32 2003
From: joy_the_lemur at yahoo.com (joy_the_lemur)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 18:50:32 -0000
Subject: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
In-Reply-To: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3F5F@teserver01.treat.net>
Message-ID: <b9u35o+i9nl@eGroups.com>

[snipsnip]

> Mycropht, who is paid to edit things says :
> 
> 1.  I personally think that African-American should be hyphenated.
> 2. This is the most awkward sentence.  There is a vague antecedant
for the
> pronoun "her".  Is the antecedant "Toni Morrison" or "genius"? 
Does Toni
> have a pet genius that lives with her, also female.  As highly
unlikely as
> that is, when there are two nouns before a pronoun it can be
classed as an
> error.
> 
> Mycropht is anal about grammar.
> 


I believe it was indeed the pronoun "her" and that it would've been
correct if it had 
been replaced by "Morrison" or anything else more specific than the
pronoun.  I 
suppose it's in a grey area now because that use/construction is more
commonplace 
and has become generally accepted.  Or everyone's slacking off in
grammar.  ;-)

-Joy, posting at the risk of having this message show up 5 days later.




From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Wed May 14 17:06:15 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 10:06:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] WANTED:  Grammar Expert
In-Reply-To: <b9thnm+pf26@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030514170615.12941.qmail@web21208.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Cindy  wrote:
> "Toni Morrison's genius enables her to create
> novels that arise from 
> and express the injustices African Americans
> have endured."
> 
> What is the error?


Lynn:

I think the error is the word her.  Her should
refer to the subject (genius) and instead it
appears to be referring to the adjective (Toni
Morrison) as Toni Morrison is a her but genius is
an it.  So, either the pronoun is wrong and it
should have read it, or there shouldn't be a
pronoun there at all and should be specific.

So, I think the sentence should either read:

Toni Morrison's genius enables it to create
novels that arise from and express the injustices
African Americans have endured.

or

Toni Morrison's genius enables Toni Morrison to
create novels that arise from and express the
injustices African Americans have endured.


Lynn
(who thinks this sentence is just awkward anyway)

=====
For the international news that's fit to print
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cnnworldnewsq-a

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com



From psychic_serpent at yahoo.com  Wed May 14 19:49:05 2003
From: psychic_serpent at yahoo.com (psychic_serpent)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 19:49:05 -0000
Subject: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
In-Reply-To: <20030514170615.12941.qmail@web21208.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b9u6jh+heue@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Ladi lyndi <ladilyndi at y...> 
wrote:
> 
> --- "Cindy  wrote:
> > "Toni Morrison's genius enables her to create
> > novels that arise from 
> > and express the injustices African Americans
> > have endured."
> > 
> > What is the error?
> 
> 
> Lynn:
 > So, I think the sentence should either read:
> 
> Toni Morrison's genius enables it to create
> novels that arise from and express the injustices
> African Americans have endured.

Definitely not.  It changes the meaning.  Toni Morrison is still the 
one doing the creating.  It is not some disembodied 'genius' that is 
doing the creating.  For style purposes, I dislike saying that 
her 'genius' enables her to do something because in this 
case 'genius' is too vague and undefined.  What is meant by this?  
One could as easily say that her opinions help her to write, but 
it's still not clear what those opinions are nor what role they play 
in her writing (even though her opinions might be very important in 
shaping her writing).

> or
> 
> Toni Morrison's genius enables Toni Morrison to
> create novels that arise from and express the
> injustices African Americans have endured.

This is awkward, but at least it doesn't change the meaning.  The 
problem with saying that the first version has a grammatical error 
(rather than citing the style problems, which I'll get to) is that 
there was no question of what the first version of the passage 
meant, apart from the question of what is meant by 'genius.'  
Despite being technically correct, it was abundantly clear to whom 
the 'her' referred, and that is probably why it was difficult to 
detect the error.  Normally, errors spring out at us because they 
make it difficult to read something or to discern the meaning.  If 
no such difficulty arises, we find ourselves scratching our heads 
and shrugging.  If J.K. Rowling wrote, "Harry's thirst was all he 
could think about; he had to get something to drink soon," we would 
know that 'he' was referring to 'Harry,' even though the subject of 
the sentence is 'Harry's thirst.'  It's not technically grammatical, 
but it's not confusing either.  There's no question of what is 
meant.  (We know what thirst is, for instance, whereas I don't think 
anyone has yet pinned down what 'genius' is.)

The first thing I noticed about this passage, actually, is that the 
verbs produce a bit of a problem.  They are not the same type, and 
so using them together is awkward.  If we separate them and thus 
create these two new versions of the end of the sentence, we get:

"...novels that arise from the injustices African Americans have 
endured."

and

"...novels that express the injustices African Americans have 
endured."

The first version gives us a verb followed by a prepositional phrase 
(preposition and object of preposition, which is itself a phrase--
"the injustices African Americans have endured.")  The second 
version gives us a verb followed by the object of the verb ("the 
injustices African Americans have endured.")  Stylistically, using 
the same phrase to be the object of a preposition and the object of 
a verb is something I wouldn't recommend.  They are not equal.  
Frankly, the entire thing needs a rewrite.  Something like this 
would work better:

"Toni Morrison has shown an ability to create novels that both arise 
from the injustices that African-Americans have endured and express 
those injustices."

While it's a little more repetitive than the original, it doesn't 
use an amorphous word like 'genius' and the same phrase is no longer 
being used as the object of a verb and the object of a preposition.  
The antecedent error has also been banished.  The real problem with 
asking people to find the 'error' in the original passage is that 
even with the 'error' fixed, it's still rife with badly-chosen 
words.  I would still replace 'express' with 'vividly depict' for 
greater precision, and I'm still unclear about what might be meant 
by 'arise from.'  The civil rights movement arose from the 
injustices endured by African-Americans; many of Morrison's novels 
were inspired by those injustices, and the fight to end those 
injustices.  In my experience, novels don't 'arise from' anything.

--Barb

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychic_Serpent
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb
 





From cindysphinx at comcast.net  Wed May 14 19:39:00 2003
From: cindysphinx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 19:39:00 -0000
Subject: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
In-Reply-To: <20030514170615.12941.qmail@web21208.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b9u60k+u0b6@eGroups.com>

Hi,

> > "Toni Morrison's genius enables her to create
> > novels that arise from 
> > and express the injustices African Americans
> > have endured."


Oh, you guys are so *good!*

The error is in the phrase "her to create."  As the article 
explained:

"The word 'her' . . . was improperly referring to 'Toni 
Morrison's' . . . . Many grammar manuals insist that a pronoun such 
as 'her' should refer only to a noun, not, as in the case of the 
possessive 'Toni Morrison's,' an adjective." 

Similarly, the following sentence violates the same rule of grammar:

"Professor Keegan's success has given him some satisfaction."

It should be:

"Professor Keegan's success has given the professor some 
satisfaction."

Uh, is there any way we can go about getting that particular rule of 
grammar changed or something?  I'm not a fan of it, myself.

Cindy -- noting that 53% of the students found no grammatical error 
in the test question 




From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Wed May 14 20:17:03 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 13:17:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
In-Reply-To: <b9u60k+u0b6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030514201703.35712.qmail@web21209.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Cindy wrote:
> Uh, is there any way we can go about getting
> that particular rule of 
> grammar changed or something?  I'm not a fan of
> it, myself.

Lynn:

You should be pleased to know that two grammar
check programs I used did not pick up the error. 
Other than on a test that is specifically for
grammar, I seriously doubt that most people would
call you on that error as it has become pretty
common.  Besides, grammar has changed quite a bit
in the 28 years I've been out of high school, so
what's okay today, won't be okay tomorrow and
vice versa.

Sort of like attorneys I who make up their own
words and suddenly you start seeing them in all
kinds of pleadings.  LOL  We had to keep an
up-to-date grammar book at our office since the
placement of quotation marks kept changing.

Lynn
(who did just fine with grammar in school but
doesn't need a grammar lesson now that she's out)


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From foxmoth at qnet.com  Wed May 14 20:04:05 2003
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 20:04:05 -0000
Subject: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
In-Reply-To: <b9thnm+pf26@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9u7fl+tngi@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." 
<cindysphinx at c...> wrote:

> A major standardized test in the U.S. asked students whether 
there  was an error in grammar in the following sentence:
> 
> "Toni Morrison's genius enables her to create novels that arise 
from  and express the injustices African Americans have 
endured."
<snip>
> What is the error?

The antecedent of "her"  has not been expressed as a noun but 
is instead hidden in the  adjective "Toni Morrison's". This is 
known as a weak reference.


Pippin 
who had to drag out her old grammar school textbook for this




From cindysphinx at comcast.net  Wed May 14 19:28:19 2003
From: cindysphinx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 19:28:19 -0000
Subject: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
In-Reply-To: <20030514170615.12941.qmail@web21208.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b9u5cj+1bd1@eGroups.com>

Hi,

> > "Toni Morrison's genius enables her to create
> > novels that arise from 
> > and express the injustices African Americans
> > have endured."


Oh, you guys are so *good!*

The error is in the phrase "her to create."  As the article 
explained:

"The word 'her' . . . was improperly referring to 'Toni 
Morrison's' . . . . Many grammar manuals insist that a pronoun such 
as 'her' should refer only to a noun, not, as in the case of the 
possessive 'Toni Morrison's,' an adjective." 

Similarly, the following sentence violates the same rule of grammar:

"Professor Keegan's success has given him some satisfaction."

It should be:

"Professor Keegan's success has given the professor some 
satisfaction."

Uh, is there any way we can go about getting that particular rule of 
grammar changed or something?  I'm not a fan of it, myself.

Cindy -- noting that 53% of the students found no grammatical error 
in the test question 




From katherine.coble at crgibson.com  Wed May 14 19:54:56 2003
From: katherine.coble at crgibson.com (Coble, Katherine)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 15:54:56 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] WANTED:  Grammar Experts
Message-ID: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3F62@teserver01.treat.net>

Cindy begs the MLA folk:

> The error is in the phrase "her to create."   As the article 
> explained:
> 
> "The word 'her' . . . was improperly referring to 'Toni 
> Morrison's' . . . . Many grammar manuals insist that a pronoun such 
> as 'her' should refer only to a noun, not, as in the case of the 
> possessive 'Toni Morrison's,' an adjective." 
> 
> Similarly, the following sentence violates the same rule of grammar:
> 
> "Professor Keegan's success has given him some satisfaction."
> 
> It should be:
> 
> "Professor Keegan's success has given the professor some 
> satisfaction."
> 
> Uh, is there any way we can go about getting that particular rule of 
> grammar changed or something?   I'm not a fan of it, myself.
> 
Mycropht says:

I kind of like this rule of grammar, if only because it keeps people from
parsing together ugly sentences, like
in the test question.

Pronouns are really an awkward part of English.  They've mutated down to us
from Norman French and we've
polluted them so much that it's hard to get them to make sense.

[yes, I realize that this is an oversimplification, but there you go.]

Mycropht
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From cassandraclaire at mail.com  Wed May 14 22:12:07 2003
From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (cassandraclaire73)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 22:12:07 -0000
Subject: Spiderwick Chronicles
In-Reply-To: <b9tlok+edpa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9uevn+4bj2@eGroups.com>


The Spiderwick books are quite dissimilar to the Lemony Snicket 
books, actually. (I feel I can say this with some authority, as Holly 
Black is a friend of mine and I read the books several months 
ago, before they were published.) The presentation makes them 
look a bit simliar, but the Spiderwick books are really magical 
adventure tales, and they lack the snide, dark humor of the 
Snicket books. I much prefer them actually as I find the Snicket 
books unpleasantly arch and too dark.

Cassie


--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Milz" 
<absinthe at m...> wrote:
> Wow, it's been a very looong time since I've posted;-)
> 
> Anyhow, I was wondering if anyone here has read the 
"Spiderwick 
> Chronicles" by Holly Black. I skimmed through a copy at my 
local 
> Borders yesterday and thought it was rather similar to the 
Lemony 
> Snicket books: 3 siblings (the eldest a teenaged girl), each 
sibling 
> has their own strength (Snicket characters strengths seem 
more 
> intellectual, Spiderwick children strengths are more physical) 
and 
> a "warning" not to read the book.
> 
> Comments?
> 
> Milz




From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Wed May 14 23:38:37 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 16:38:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] WANTED:  Grammar Experts
In-Reply-To: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3F62@teserver01.treat.net>
Message-ID: <20030514233838.77034.qmail@web21210.mail.yahoo.com>

> Mycropht says:
> 
> Pronouns are really an awkward part of English.
>  They've mutated down to us
> from Norman French and we've
> polluted them so much that it's hard to get
> them to make sense.
> 

Lynn:

Oh, come on, pronouns also make things a lot more
fun when you're trying to learn a different
language.

For example, in Dutch, the word for girl isn't
masculine or feminine, but neuter.  So, when
referring to the girl, do you use the pronoun her
since you know that a girl is, in reality,
feminine or do you refer to the girl as an it
since the word itself is neuter.  Our language
class managed to confuse our teacher over this
vary question.  I decided about 5 minutes into
the discussion that if the word boys was deemed
masculine then the word girls should be feminine
and I was going to refer to a girl as her no
matter what.  LOL

Lynn
(who, after 4 years is still thoroughly confused
with gender nouns in the Dutch language.  How in
the world a masculine or feminine noun suddenly
become neuter by the adding of a je at the end of
the word still escapes me)

=====
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From coriolan at worldnet.att.net  Thu May 15 00:03:35 2003
From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 00:03:35 -0000
Subject: Fahrenheit 451: 50th Anniversary
Message-ID: <b9ulgn+4guj@eGroups.com>

With so many on this group concerned about "censorship" of Harry 
Potter, I thought this article on the 50th anniversary of Ray 
Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 might be of interest:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/la/?id=110003492

Here's the money quote:

Today, Mr. Bradbury is more concerned with another problem that he 
thinks he didn't prevent. "There's no reason to burn books if you 
don't read them," he says. "The education system in this country is 
just terrible, and we're not doing anything about it." 

One of the often-overlooked details of "Fahrenheit 451" is that the 
censorship Mr. Bradbury describes was not imposed from the top by a 
ruthless government. Rather, it seeped up from the indifferent 
masses. As a villain explains: "School is shortened, discipline 
relaxed, philosophies, histories, languages dropped, English and 
spelling gradually neglected, finally almost completely 
ignored. . . . No wonder books stopped selling."


    - CMC





From coriolan at worldnet.att.net  Thu May 15 00:19:52 2003
From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 00:19:52 -0000
Subject: The Real Order of the Phoenix
Message-ID: <b9umf8+mbvq@eGroups.com>

The things you learn via Google........


http://www.mfa.gr/english/the_ministry/ethimo/decorations/phoenix.html


The Order of the Phoenix 

 Legislative Decree: 13 May 1926
(Gov. Gaz. 180, issue A', dated 3 Jun. 1926) 

The Order of the Phoenix was established in 1926 and is awarded to 
Greek citizens who have excelled in the fields of public 
administration, science, arts and letters, commerce, industry and 
shipping. It is also conferred upon foreigners who have promoted 
Greece's stature abroad in the above fields. 

The Order is named after the mythical bird Phoenix, which is depicted 
on the obverse side of the Star and the Cross. The reverse side bears 
the emblem of the Hellenic Republic. 

The Order consists of five grades or classes......... 

Endquote

A better photo can be seen here:

http://www.geocities.com/greekmedals/Phoenix.htm

  - CMC (who is planning to be in Phillipi - where Octavius creamed 
Brutus, as foretold by the ghost of Julius Caesar - on June 21)










From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Wed May 14 23:47:18 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 16:47:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
In-Reply-To: <b9u7fl+tngi@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030514234718.46021.qmail@web21208.mail.yahoo.com>


--- pippin wrote:
> 
> The antecedent of "her"  has not been expressed
> as a noun but 
> is instead hidden in the  adjective "Toni
> Morrison's". This is 
> known as a weak reference.
> 
> 
> Pippin 
> who had to drag out her old grammar school
> textbook for this

Lynn:

Pippin, did you remember the word antecedent
without the old grammar book?  Someone else used
the word too and I was saying to myself, "I know
that word, I know that word, what does it mean
again?".  LOL

Lynn
(who has spent the last 4 years spliting
infinitives she was always taught not to split so
has decided it's no wonder she's now thoroughly
confused by grammar in any language)

=====
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From cindysphinx at comcast.net  Thu May 15 00:42:18 2003
From: cindysphinx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 00:42:18 -0000
Subject: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
In-Reply-To: <20030514234718.46021.qmail@web21208.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b9unpa+b7s8@eGroups.com>

> Lynn
> (who has spent the last 4 years spliting
> infinitives she was always taught not to split so
> has decided it's no wonder she's now thoroughly
> confused by grammar in any language)

You know, I have decided to be a rebel.  Take on the establishment.  
Do my own thing.  

I have decided that henceforth I will split infinitives whenever I 
want to.  I think they are more fun that way.  And I dangle my 
participles and make no apologies for it.  And you should See what I 
do With capitalization When I'm in A bad Mood.

RebelWithoutAClause!Cindy




From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Thu May 15 02:54:42 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 19:54:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Spiderwick Chronicles
In-Reply-To: <b9tlok+edpa@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030515025442.84770.qmail@web21108.mail.yahoo.com>

Milz, in part:
> Anyhow, I was wondering if anyone
> here has read the "Spiderwick 
> Chronicles" by Holly Black. I
> skimmed through a copy at my local 
> Borders yesterday and thought it
> was rather similar to the Lemony 
> Snicket books: 3 siblings (the
> eldest a teenaged girl), each sibling 
> has their own strength (Snicket
> characters strengths seem more 
> intellectual, Spiderwick children
> strengths are more physical) and 
> a "warning" not to read the book.

Oh, are they out already?  The marketing 
materials for that series had read: 

"Simon & Schuster is proud (and a bit 
wary) to present The Spiderwick 
Chronicles, Tony DiTerlizzi & Holly 
Black, August 2003."  I remember that 
series because I had wanted to see how 
the authors' would present:

- Hogsqueal the Hobgoblin
- Byron the Griffon
- Thimbletack the Brownie
- Arthur Spiderwick's Field Guide to 
the Fantastic World Around You (to 
include original notes and drawings)
- The Seeing Stone

I distinctly remember thinking that 
they should try and *beat* OotP to 
the shelves!

Petra
a
n  :)

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From editor at texas.net  Thu May 15 02:55:20 2003
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Geist)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 21:55:20 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] WANTED:  Grammar Expert
References: <b9thnm+pf26@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <002101c31a8d$908bd560$e705a6d8@texas.net>

> A major standardized test in the U.S. asked students whether there
> was an error in grammar in the following sentence:
>
> "Toni Morrison's genius enables her to create novels that arise from
> and express the injustices African Americans have endured."

Hm.
I think "African-Americans" should be hyphenated (first thought).
Second: "that" should be "which." (guess)

Did I win?

~Amanda, who really should know this stuff, considering she's an editor and
all




From prittylina at yahoo.com  Thu May 15 04:06:31 2003
From: prittylina at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Lina?=)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 05:06:31 +0100 (BST)
Subject: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
In-Reply-To: <1052957262.8047.33296.m11@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030515040631.45002.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com>

Cindy wrote: 
> Uh, is there any way we can go about getting that particular rule of 
> grammar changed or something?  I'm not a fan of it, myself.

Most certainly. If enough people were to not use such a construction
consistantly (or were to understand there to be nothing wrong with said
construction), the rule of grammar would change. Of course, it would take
forever for grammar Nazis to accept it, but eventually such a construction
(much like my use of "if... were", sadly) would become a grammatical archaism.
(A random example: While it was once acceptable to use "his" in the gender
neutral sense, apparently now it is considered ungrammatical and archaic to do
such, much to my chagrin.)


L, who rather likes archaisms, but finds grammatical change fascinating

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From glcherry at bellsouth.net  Thu May 15 05:23:14 2003
From: glcherry at bellsouth.net (stardancerofas)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 05:23:14 -0000
Subject: Fanfic Recommendation
Message-ID: <b9v882+au8e@eGroups.com>

Okay, normally I would never do this, but I have been reading fanfic
for a while over at fanfiction.net I had to recommend these, I just
had too. So, please forgive me.
If someone else has already done this, forgive me for that too.

Pride of Lions: http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=1342338.
A Minerva / Moody story. Rated R I think. By the time I finished it I
was in tears so if the rating is wrong forgive me.

Death Before Dishonor: http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=1167770
A Sirius Black fic. This was one of the first I ever read, and it is
fanatstic. In my opinion of course

Promises Unbroken: http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=1248431
AU. Sirius Black remained the Secret Keeper, James and Lily did not
die, and Harry is now old enough to attend Hogwarts.

Both Death before Dishonor and Promises Unbroken are by the same
author, and nope, it isn't me. I WISH I could write like this.

I just had to recommend these. To those of you who don't read
fanfiction. Sorry.

To those of you who do, I think you'll enjoy these. I know I did.

Thanks for reading this. 
                       Lorrie





From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Thu May 15 07:15:07 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 00:15:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Fahrenheit 451: 50th Anniversary
In-Reply-To: <b9ulgn+4guj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030515071507.68217.qmail@web21210.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Caius wrote:
> With so many on this group concerned about
> "censorship" of Harry 
> Potter, I thought this article on the 50th
> anniversary of Ray 
> Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 might be of interest:

Lynn:

Good article.  I remember really enjoying
Fahrenheit 451 and I think it's about time I read
it again.  After reading the article, I think
there will be 98 differences between now and when
I read it.  LOL

Mr. Bradbury is so right, however.  What's the
purpose of burning books if no one is reading
them anyway.  The Harry Potter series has gotten
kids excited about reading again, and not just
kids.  I've met adults who hadn't read a book
through in years that are reading because of
Harry Potter.  There are those who were only
reading one genre who are now expanding because
they now remember how much fun it was to read
different things.

I really hope more schools are going back to
reading time and having summer book lists.  I
know I didn't like those at the time but some of
the books I love best were the ones assigned as
summer reading.  I was surprised when I found out
my daughter's class doesn't have a regular story
time and at her age it's so important.  We read
to her every day and then she reads back to us. 
Okay, so it's not always the story that's in the
book but at 4 it's exciting to see her creativity
take flight.  It's also amazing when she can
repeat back the story you just read to her,
adding her own special ideas.

Lynn
(who says you can take my Jane Austin novels only
when you pry them from my cold dead hands)

=====
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From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Thu May 15 07:59:25 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 00:59:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
In-Reply-To: <b9unpa+b7s8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030515075925.55560.qmail@web21203.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Cindy  wrote:
> You know, I have decided to be a rebel.  Take
> on the establishment.  
> Do my own thing.  
> 
> I have decided that henceforth I will split
> infinitives whenever I 
> want to.  I think they are more fun that way. 
> And I dangle my 
> participles and make no apologies for it.  And
> you should See what I 
> do With capitalization When I'm in A bad Mood.
> 
> RebelWithoutAClause!Cindy

Lynn:

ROFLMAO!  Just watch out for those dangling
participles, they can get caught in things and
snag.  However, I'm with you, lead on!

Lynn
(who figures she's going to have to learn a whole
new language again when she has to start speaking
English in England)

=====
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From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Thu May 15 08:12:00 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 01:12:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
In-Reply-To: <20030515040631.45002.qmail@web14002.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030515081200.58553.qmail@web21207.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Lina wrote:
> Most certainly. If enough people were to not
> use such a construction
> consistantly (or were to understand there to be
> nothing wrong with said
> construction), the rule of grammar would
> change. 

Lynn:

Last night I went and found the article on line. 
What I really found facinating was that this
particular sentence had been studied by 30
grammatical experts who all said there were no
grammatical mistakes.  It was one lone high
school teacher who found the mistake and then
worked to have the mistake corrected.  Both sides
had experts who supported their opinion.  It took
an independent panel of experts to make the final
ruling that there was indeed a grammatical
mistake.  The test givers stated that the
grammatical structure was now used commonly
enough so as to make it correct.

Lynn
(who wishes she had been in school late enough to
have been able to point out to a teacher that
ain't really is in the dictionary)

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From Ali at zymurgy.org  Thu May 15 10:27:37 2003
From: Ali at zymurgy.org (Ali)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:27:37 -0000
Subject: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
In-Reply-To: <20030515075925.55560.qmail@web21203.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b9vq2p+k4bq@eGroups.com>

Lynn wrote:-

>>>who figures she's going to have to learn a whole
new language again when she has to start speaking
English in England)<<<

As long as you don't talk about fanny packs, boob tubes or bangs, I 
think you're be alright!

Ali




From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Thu May 15 10:55:51 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 03:55:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
In-Reply-To: <b9vq2p+k4bq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030515105551.79053.qmail@web21208.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Ali wrote:
> As long as you don't talk about fanny packs,
> boob tubes or bangs, I 
> think you're be alright!


Lynn:

Oh, I never talk about fanny packs (I dislike
that term) since first you have to figure out if
fanny is a proper name or an anatomical slang
term.  Then you have to figure out if packs is a
verb or a noun.  I mean really, does it mean that
Fanny or your fanny is packing something or is it
a pack that Fanny or your fanny made?

What is the English word for bangs?  Is it fringe
or something like that?  Doesn't matter, it won't
be any more confusing than the Dutch word which
is pony.  It still startles me when the
hairdresser asks whether I want my pony cut.

I'm assuming by boob tube you're referring to the
telly or, from some things I've seen on BBC, you
could also be referring to some lines on the
Underground. ;)

Lynn
(who has already found herself using England
terms when referring to things, such as saying
sweets instead of candy, take away rather than
take out, lift instead of elevator and queue
rather than line)

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From absinthe at mad.scientist.com  Thu May 15 16:06:20 2003
From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (Milz)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 16:06:20 -0000
Subject: Spiderwick Chronicles
In-Reply-To: <20030515025442.84770.qmail@web21108.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ba0dts+hika@eGroups.com>

Hi Petra and Cassandraclaire. 

There were two books I saw at Borders: "The Field Guide" and "The 
Seeing Stone". I noticed them due to the display next to the Potter 
books. The display offered a free seeing stone. My curiosity got the 
better of me:)

As I wrote in my first post, I only skimmed through the books and saw 
some similarities between them and the Snicket books, however 
superficial they may be. Furthermore, the packaging (size, shape, 
general cover art design) of the books were similar to the Snicket 
books. 

Before buying books, I usually see if my local library has copies. 
Some books are good "library reads", but aren't good enough to 
be "home library" investments, imho. Mine did not have copies of the 
Spiderwick Chronicles. So that's why I brought my queries here about 
the series, as I figured someone might have read them and can fill me 
in.

If my first post implied the Spiderwick books are deliberate copy-
cats of the Snicket books, I apologize.

Milz









From truebeliever60 at hotmail.com  Thu May 15 16:57:58 2003
From: truebeliever60 at hotmail.com (truebeliever60)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 16:57:58 -0000
Subject: Hello, my name is Tim, and....
Message-ID: <ba0gum+27au@eGroups.com>

The HBfile said not to introduce myself on main list, so I am doing 
it here.  

"My name is Tim, I am 21, I am from Oklahoma, and I am a Harry Potter 
Fanatic"

(chorus of voices) "Hi Tim"

I realize that I am addicted, and as such, have way too much time to 
think about Harry Potter and such. So, people should start reading my 
posts and responding, lest I go into terrible withdrawal for lack of 
intelligent discussion.  Good reasons to read said posts below:

1. I am a bloody genious, and as such, you should beneit from my 
wisdom.

2. I am a blithering idiot, and you should tell me off with a well-
placed howler.

3. I am pitiful intelectually, and should therefore be enlightened by 
your collective wisdom in a caring and compassionate way. 

If any of these reasons work for you, please use them and read what I 
post. (it is sometimes hard for a newbies posts to get noticed, you 
know.) Thanks!

Tim (truebeliever60)




From psychic_serpent at yahoo.com  Thu May 15 17:19:15 2003
From: psychic_serpent at yahoo.com (psychic_serpent)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 17:19:15 -0000
Subject: What not to say in England (was:  Grammar Expert)
In-Reply-To: <20030515105551.79053.qmail@web21208.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ba0i6j+cidn@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Ladi lyndi <ladilyndi at y...> 
wrote:
> 
> --- Ali wrote:
> > As long as you don't talk about fanny packs,
> > boob tubes or bangs, I 
> > think you're be alright!
> 
> 
> Lynn:
> 
> Oh, I never talk about fanny packs (I dislike
> that term) since first you have to figure out if
> fanny is a proper name or an anatomical slang
> term.  Then you have to figure out if packs is a
> verb or a noun.  I mean really, does it mean that
> Fanny or your fanny is packing something or is it
> a pack that Fanny or your fanny made?
> 
> What is the English word for bangs?  Is it fringe
> or something like that?  Doesn't matter, it won't
> be any more confusing than the Dutch word which
> is pony.  It still startles me when the
> hairdresser asks whether I want my pony cut.
 
That's rather interesting, as it goes back to the origin of the 
word 'bangs' in American English.  Many times horses are 
given 'banged' tails, which means they've been cut to be rather 
short and blunt, ending in a straight line.  This term was then 
applied to women's hair when that style became au courant in the 
late nineteenth century.  People started off saying that they were 
going to 'bang' their hair in front, and the term for that bit of 
short hair over the brow became 'bangs.'  For someone who doesn't 
speak British, 'fringe' is still easy to understand, as it's a 
pretty good physical description of what that hair looks like (apart 
from the fact that we also now use 'fringe' to mean things on the 
edges or art/music that is rather avant garde).  It's a little 
harder to parse what is meant by 'pony' in this context, however, 
even when one knows that 'bangs' evolved from horses having their 
tails banged.

I believe that 'bang' is a synonym for intercourse in Britain, and 
that's why you would be making people snicker to refer to part of 
one's hair with the term 'bangs.'


--Barb





From bboy_mn at yahoo.com  Thu May 15 20:04:56 2003
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 20:04:56 -0000
Subject: Product Warnings Just Kill Me!
In-Reply-To: <b9p0la+k7vs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ba0rt8+7qfq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bowlwoman" <bowlwoman at y...>
wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." <cindysphinx at c...> 
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Maybe I'm weird or something, but I just *love* to read the 
> > warnings  they put in new products you buy.  ...edited..
> 
> bowlwoman

Truth is stranger than fiction.

 "Warning! This is not underwear! Do not attempt to put in pants." --
On the packaging for a wristwatch.

bboy_mn




From meboriqua at aol.com  Thu May 15 20:08:20 2003
From: meboriqua at aol.com (jenny_ravenclaw)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 20:08:20 -0000
Subject: What not to say in England (was:  Grammar Expert)
In-Reply-To: <ba0i6j+cidn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ba0s3k+nd44@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "psychic_serpent" 
<psychic_serpent at y...> wrote:

 
> I believe that 'bang' is a synonym for intercourse in Britain, and 
> that's why you would be making people snicker to refer to part of 
> one's hair with the term 'bangs.'>

'Bang' can mean sex here, too, although the way it usually used, I 
wouldn't necessarily call it sex.

My students are reading _Of Mice and Men_ now and could not control 
themselves when we read about Lennie "stroking" the dead puppy.  To 
them, stroking is not something you waste time doing to a dog.

--jenny from ravenclaw ****************************************




From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Thu May 15 18:52:32 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 11:52:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] What not to say in England (was:  Grammar Expert)
In-Reply-To: <ba0i6j+cidn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030515185232.63633.qmail@web21201.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Barb wrote:
> I believe that 'bang' is a synonym for
> intercourse in Britain, and 
> that's why you would be making people snicker
> to refer to part of 
> one's hair with the term 'bangs.'


Lynn:

Oh wow, I hadn't heard bang used that way since
the 70s!  But then, just from reading british
authors and listening to BBC talk and game shows,
I've decided the British have about a thousand
ways of saying intercourse - so much for the cold
Brit stereotype!

Lynn

=====
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cnnworldnewsq-a

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From meboriqua at aol.com  Thu May 15 20:02:09 2003
From: meboriqua at aol.com (jenny_ravenclaw)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 20:02:09 -0000
Subject: The Real Order of the Phoenix
In-Reply-To: <b9umf8+mbvq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ba0ro1+b787@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Caius Marcius" 
<coriolan at w...> wrote:
 
> The Order of the Phoenix was established in 1926 and is awarded to 
> Greek citizens who have excelled in the fields of public 
> administration, science, arts and letters, commerce, industry and 
> shipping.>

Shipping?  I nominate Penny!

--jenny from ravenclaw****************************************




From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Thu May 15 22:01:28 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 15:01:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Spiderwick Chronicles
In-Reply-To: <ba0dts+hika@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030515220128.8236.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com>

Milz, in parts:
> There were two books I saw at
> Borders: "The Field Guide" and "The 
> Seeing Stone". I noticed them due
> to the display next to the Potter 
> books. The display offered a free
> seeing stone. My curiosity got the 
> better of me:)

Same here - my curiosity was also 
piqued by the similarity of the 
presentation of these books to that 
of Lemony Snicket's and the 
similarities to the HP universe in 
names.  Of course, until I actually 
get around to reading these books, 
I won't have an educated opinion as 
to whether this series is tapping 
into the same archetypes and themes 
as those of Lemony Snicket and JKR 
in new and novel ways...or...merely 
copycats of them (and others).

> As I wrote in my first post, I only
> skimmed through the books and saw 
> some similarities between them
> and the Snicket books, however 
> superficial they may be. Furthermore,
> the packaging (size, shape, general
> cover art design) of the books were
> similar to the Snicket books. 

How this series is positioned in 
the marketplace is determined by 
Simon & Schuster, I dare say.  
Whether I would ever become a fan 
or not, after being intrigued by 
the marketing, would greatly depend 
on the actual substance of the 
books' content.

See, nothing turns me off quicker 
than being bait-n-switched by 
exploitative materials...and nothing 
turns me on more than materials that 
exceed my expectation.  :)

Judging from the sales one-sheet for 
this series from S & S, the publishers 
certainly are being evocative of the 
Lemony Snicket books in declaring 
themselves "a bit wary to present" 
these chronicles.  The S & S marketing 
material also mentions that the 
authors are "...fending off angry 
faeries and goblins in order to bring 
the Grace children's story to you...The 
Grace children want their story to be 
told.  But heed their warnings, wear 
some red, turn your clothes inside out 
- all anti faerie devices - and get 
ready to enter a world you never knew 
existed...But beware the faeries will 
do anything to stop you reading these 
books..."

Less influenced by the publishers (I 
hope) are the names and creatures 
that are evocative of the HP universe.  
"Arthur Spiderwick's Field Guide to 
the Fantastic World Around You" may 
very well be inspired by "Fantastic 
Beasts & Where to Find Them" (which 
in turn may be inspired by Barber & 
Riches' "A Dictionary of Fabulous 
Beasts" IMO).  The one-sheet even 
mentioned plans to include original 
notes, drawings, and findings in 
Spiderwick's Field Guide (which is to 
conclude the series, but should not 
to be confused with The Field Guide, 
which is the first book in this 
series, if I read this correctly) 
which reminds me of the doodles in 
the 2 HP schoolbooks.

I wonder: Will a seeing stone be 
as interestingly resonant as the 
PS/SS?  Will Lucinda's secret be 
as interesting as those in the 
Chamber?  Why is the Hobgoblin 
named Hogsqueal?  Will the Griffon 
turn out to be a Byronic hero? or 
an anti-Bryonic hero?  Will 
Thimbletack the Brownie have 
anything in common with his 
clansmen the dobies?

These are the *similarities* that 
struck me immediately.  How this 
series may or may not manage to be 
*different*, to make novel comments 
on human nature, would answer the 
question of whether this series 
builds on prior works...or merely 
written and/or published to take 
advantage of the current hype.

This is, of course, a matter of 
opinion.  Like Milz, I'd be 
interested in hearing such opinions, 
which I don't plan to read until 
after I get a chance for form my own.

But don't y'all hold back on my 
account now you hear?  <g>

Petra
a
n  :)

__________________________________
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From trisha.masen at verizon.net  Thu May 15 22:40:55 2003
From: trisha.masen at verizon.net (Trisha Masen)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 18:40:55 -0400
Subject: Harry Potter and The Matrix
References: <1053020843.742.72824.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <006a01c31b33$0c481b00$2e01000a@Tlaptop>

Figured since I wasn't sure if this should go here or the main list, I'd
play it safe.  I saw "The Matrix: Revolutions" last night and was blown
away.

Since then I've been trying to figure out why I'm so fascinated by movies
like "The Matrix" and books like the Harry Potter series.  I think I've come
to the conclusion that the main reason is because, in some ways, both seem
so plausible.  They take reality and tweak it.  Both take "the world as we
know it" and then show us that we really don't know it at all.

"The Matrix" shows us that our illusion is just that - we are plugged into a
central mainframe and used as batteries.  Everything we think we know is
just a construct most humans are duped into believing and living within.

Harry Potter shows us that there are those who can create illusions to
baffle and confuse us Muggles.  But, there is a whole world that run roughly
parallel that does not follow the "rules" that we know at all.  Just think
of Ron's amusement at the way Muggles function sometimes.

I think I'm jealous.  In both, the reality we know is not really reality.
In the alternate place (either mentally "released" from the mainframe in
"The Matrix" or in the wizarding world in Harry Potter), people are able to
perform amazing feats and are released - to some extent - from the
contraints placed upon us.

~Trisha Masen





From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Thu May 15 22:58:19 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 15:58:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What not to say in Scotland and in Australia
In-Reply-To: <ba0s3k+nd44@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030515225819.18863.qmail@web21105.mail.yahoo.com>

When in Scotland, never refer to 
anything Scottish as being English.  
British?  Maybe.  English?  Only if 
you want to glared at!  No one 
believed that it was just a slip of 
the tongue as opposed to complete 
ignorance of Scottish history on my 
part...<g>

Question for the Aussies:

Do beavers as a species exist in 
Australia?  Someone who had worked 
on the old Nickelodeon show "Two 
Angry Beavers" once told me that 
the show had to change names when 
exported to Australia because in 
Australia, 'beavers' does not mean 
dam-building water dwellers with 
big flat tails.  If this is true, 
what did y'all think of the show 
"Leave It to Beaver" (if that show 
made it to you)?!

Petra
a
n  :)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com



From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Thu May 15 23:48:55 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 16:48:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] What not to say in Scotland and in Australia
In-Reply-To: <20030515225819.18863.qmail@web21105.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030515234855.38916.qmail@web21201.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Petra Pan <ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Question for the Aussies:
> 
> Someone who had worked 
> on the old Nickelodeon show "Two 
> Angry Beavers" once told me that 
> the show had to change names when 
> exported to Australia because in 
> Australia, 'beavers' does not mean 
> dam-building water dwellers with 
> big flat tails.  

Lynn:

I also understand that ferrets mean something
other than the animal in Australia as well. 
Something about "trouser ferret?"  This was
explained to the room in a chat I was having one
day when the subject of raising ferrets came up. 
We ended up assuring one mother that it was a
good thing her son only had one ferret and pity
the poor guy who came in half way through the
discussion and informed the group that he had 7
ferrets.  LOL

Lynn

=====
For the international news that's fit to print
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cnnworldnewsq-a

__________________________________
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The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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From melclaros at yahoo.com  Fri May 16 00:36:42 2003
From: melclaros at yahoo.com (melclaros)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 00:36:42 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter and The Matrix
In-Reply-To: <006a01c31b33$0c481b00$2e01000a@Tlaptop>
Message-ID: <ba1bqq+avmv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Trisha Masen" 
<trisha.masen at v...> wrote:
> Figured since I wasn't sure if this should go here or the main 
list, I'd
> play it safe.  I saw "The Matrix: Revolutions" last night and was 
blown
> away.
> 

Question:
Is it appropriate (relatively speaking) for a 13 year old? Yes, he's 
seen the 1st one (on video) and is trying to make the point that 
the "R" rating is because "you know, it's--well, things are messed 
up!" Funny thing is I know what he means. Anyone else seen this? 
Would you bring the tweens?

Mel--new to this teenage thing, and was just told "NO" in no 
uncertain terms when *she* was 13. Hmph.




From Malady579 at hotmail.com  Fri May 16 04:04:06 2003
From: Malady579 at hotmail.com (Melody)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 04:04:06 -0000
Subject: The Matrix with a small rant on ratings
In-Reply-To: <ba1bqq+avmv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ba1nvm+uvsu@eGroups.com>

Mel wrote:
> Question:
> Is it appropriate (relatively speaking) for a 13 year old? Yes, he's
> seen the 1st one (on video) and is trying to make the point that
> the "R" rating is because "you know, it's--well, things are messed
> up!" Funny thing is I know what he means. Anyone else seen this?
> Would you bring the tweens?


Well first Mel to your question: I just saw it myself tonight, and
even though I am 25, I got carded twice.  Twice!  I have never been
carded for a movie.  I was quite shocked.

But serious, I did not find anything majorly "R rated" about the
movie.  Of course there is tons of violence.  Of course, there is a
wee-bit of profanity in English and French (though the French
profanity may not of been so wee-bit since I do not know French but
the guy who said it in the movie said it was profanity...good line
after too...anyway).  Even a wee, barely even noticeable, bit of
nudity, but nothing at all blatant and in your face.  Kind of subtle
really.  But nothing that I would think a person under 17 would not be
able to handle.  The preview to Terminator Three had about as much
violence as Matrix.  But bullets did slow down, and Neo did a lot of
ass kicking with those fighting skills of his, and that car chase is
amazing, so maybe that is why it is R rated.

You know, I think it is mostly R rated because of the philosophy it
covers.  I know I saw a few eyes glaze over when they got into the
philosophy of fate, hope, and faith.  Went *way* over some of their
heads, but then again, I live in Texas.  Most are happy to be able to
be able to understand the news at night let alone the teachings of
philosophers.  I think their head would explode if you put Plato in
front of them...especially in original Greek.  :D

Ok, I digressed.  But the mental aspect, and complexity of the Matrix
might be why it is R rated.  The tween will like the action and maybe
the love aspect of the movie, but the subtle message that is so
intricately weaved is lost very much to a teenager.  But then again,
aren't all intelligent, good movies lost to the inexperienced or
uneducated...young *or* old?  So maybe, Hollywood is not rating films
the way I would.  Some people should not see some movies when they
will not cry at the delicacy of it or the carefully weaved script or
the subtle message of its conclusion.

I also do not see how people can just leave a theatre the second a
good movie is over and not reflect in the glow of it or the thoughts
it provoked.  I mean, I have to.  I have to regain where I am and what
all just happened.  I have to work through what all was just presented
to me.  Not all movies do that to me, but the ones that sink in and
take hold, those are the once that have me spinning for air and I just
sit at the end baffled that no one else was as affected as me.  I just
am amazed.

But that is me.  I do not go to many movies, because of how much it
takes out of me to watch them.  Also because many of them suck
royally.  :)

But I found Matrix Reloaded to be a wonderful movie.  Balanced with
everything I love in movies.  Even down to my mind taking in what I
just learned as seeing how it tests against my life.  To see if I find
the truths, or questions, they posed to be what I agree with or what I
have discarded.  And I love it more, when they are truths and
questions I have not found yet a name for but now better understand.

ANYWAY.....

Sorry about that.  ::blush::

Got carried away.

So, Mel.  I say it was a good action movie for the kids.  Not too
bloody.  Not too blatant.  But then again, I am not a parent.  I do
not know your kid or what they have already seen.  I know at the age
of 13, my parents would not of let me see Matrix Reloaded.  I was not
allowed to see R rated movies until I was 17.  I did not pout and am
glad now, since now I get *all* of the movie and now an old enough and
educated enough to truly appreciate it.  But that is me.  I am sure
some here thought Matrix Reloaded was awful and that I have no taste
in movies.  Oh well.  To each their own I guess.  :)


Melody




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Fri May 16 04:27:39 2003
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 14:27:39 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] What not to say in Scotland and in Australia
In-Reply-To: <20030515225819.18863.qmail@web21105.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <ba0s3k+nd44@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3EC4F55B.17636.630DA33@localhost>

On 15 May 2003 at 15:58, Petra Pan wrote:

> Question for the Aussies:
> 
> Do beavers as a species exist in 
> Australia?

Only as an introduced species. Basically virtually every native mammal in Australia is a 
marsupial (there's a tiny mouse that is a placental mammal). Closest equivalent to the 
beaver in terms of place in the ecosystem is the very weird monotreme, the platypus.

>  Someone who had worked 
> on the old Nickelodeon show "Two 
> Angry Beavers" once told me that 
> the show had to change names when 
> exported to Australia because in 
> Australia, 'beavers' does not mean 
> dam-building water dwellers with 
> big flat tails.  If this is true, 
> what did y'all think of the show 
> "Leave It to Beaver" (if that show 
> made it to you)?!

Well, it's true 'beavers' has a different meaning in Australia (and not one you'd want to 
use on a kids show) but Australian kids know what a beaver is - interesting thing about 
growing up in Australia is that a lot of kids know European and American things - like 
geography, history, and wildlife - pretty much as well as Europeans or Americans 
because so much of our TV comes from those markets. The Angry Beavers was shown 
here, but the title wasn't changed as far as I know - I suppose it's possible it was at first 
but it definitely currently airs under that title. Same with leave it to Beaver. Certainly 
been shown here under that title.



Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200

                       "Almighty Ruler of the all;
                 Whose power extends to great and small;
                 Who guides the stars with steadfast law;
                   Whose least creation fills with awe;
                     Oh grant thy mercy and thy grace;
                     To those who venture into space."




From catlady at wicca.net  Fri May 16 04:53:10 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 04:53:10 -0000
Subject: Hot Coffee / hippy barthdays / doctorates / OBE / Beavers
Message-ID: <ba1qrm+f60l@eGroups.com>

Cindy Sphinx wrote:

<< And McDonalds was serving coffee much hotter than the industry 
standard for no good reason, despite having received lots of 
complaints and reports of injury. >>

It wasn't for *no* good reason -- the unnaturally hot coffee would 
keep warm longer, so that long-distance drivers could nurse it along 
longer without having to exit the freeway to buy another coffee. The 
problem with MacDonalds's behavior was that they didn't package it 
safely for such a hot liquid.

Birthdays for Neil and Parker! And I missed them! Both wonderful 
people, one a flying car and the other a weaving re-enactor.

Mycropht wrote:

<< I've watched these men and women struggle for years to pay for 
school, working 48 hours without sleep and studying diligently to 
become skilled at their chosen discipline. >>

That seems pretty much what JKR did, except that her chosen 
discipline was writing novels and she studied that on her own 
rather than in a university program.

Christian wrote:

<< GBE - Knight (or Dame) Grand Cross of the Most Excellent Order of 
the British Empire >>

Similarly, I think the 'Grand Sorceror' in Dumbledore's titulary is 
part of "Order of Merlin, First Class, Grand Sorceror" 

Having looked at CAIUS MARCIUS's link to Order of the Phoenix, I now 
wonder if First Class and Grand Sorceror are the same thing. I had 
thought that First Class, Grand Sorceror was even higher than First 
Class.

<< If one is made a member of either KBE/DBE rank or GBE rank one is 
entitled to use the prefix "Sir" if male, "Dame" if female. >>

As a child, I was confused between Knight and Dame versus Night and 
Day.

Petra Pan asked:

<< Do beavers as a species exist in Australia? Someone who had worked 
on the old Nickelodeon show "Two Angry Beavers" once told me that the 
show had to change names when exported to Australia because in 
Australia, 'beavers' does not mean dam-building water dwellers with 
big flat tails. >>

Here in USA, "beaver" has another meaning, as slang for, um, female 
genitalia ... which is why publications like HUSTLER are described as 
having "split beaver" shots, and why there is a t-shirt labelled 
"Ward, weren't you a little hard on the Beaver last night?".

March 1, 2000 on ATC 
(http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=1071034 for the 
audio): "Beaver College -- a school outside Philadelphia that 
originated in Beaver County, Pennsylvania -- is considering a name 
change. The word beaver, often used in vulgar reference to the female
anatomy, is blocked by some Internet filters designed to prevent     
access to pornography. Research also shows that 30-percent of the 
school's prospective students decide against it because of the name. 
Noah speaks with Bill Avington, Media Relations Manager at Beaver 
College in Glenside, Pennsylvania. "

More about the wizarding folk during the war when I have time.




From sally at gristiegraphics.co.uk  Fri May 16 09:43:34 2003
From: sally at gristiegraphics.co.uk (Sally Grist)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 09:43:34 -0000
Subject: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
In-Reply-To: <20030515105551.79053.qmail@web21208.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ba2bs6+hshq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Ladi lyndi <ladilyndi at y...> 
wrote:
> 
> --- Ali wrote:
> > As long as you don't talk about fanny packs,
> > boob tubes or bangs, I 
> > think you're be alright!
> 
> 
> Lynn wrote:
> 
> I'm assuming by boob tube you're referring to the
> telly or, from some things I've seen on BBC, you
> could also be referring to some lines on the
> Underground. ;)
> 

Fascinated by the above comments, Sally writes:
I'm a Brit through and through, so I confess, yes I get hideously 
irritated by Americanisms such as 'bangs' and yes I am still reduced 
school-girlish giggles at the mention of 'fanny packs' but.... boob 
tubes??!!

Maybe I'm naive but as far as I know a boob tube is a lady's 
strapless top. ('Boobs' being a casual term for breasts, and 'tube' 
indicating the shape of the garment.)

So why shouldn't you mention that in England? I'm not aware that the 
term has anything to do with the cathode-ray tube on a telly, or 
the fact that the London Underground is also known as 'The Tube'.

Or am I missing something? What does it mean in America? Is it 
rude?? 
Do please enlighten me, I'm fascinated to know!

Sal ;o)




From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Fri May 16 10:31:32 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 03:31:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
In-Reply-To: <ba2bs6+hshq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030516103132.80846.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Sally wrote:
> Maybe I'm naive but as far as I know a boob
> tube is a lady's 
> strapless top. ('Boobs' being a casual term for
> breasts, and 'tube' 
> indicating the shape of the garment.)
> 
> So why shouldn't you mention that in England?
> I'm not aware that the 
> term has anything to do with the cathode-ray
> tube on a telly, or 
> the fact that the London Underground is also
> known as 'The Tube'.
> 
> Or am I missing something? What does it mean in
> America? Is it 
> rude?? 
> Do please enlighten me, I'm fascinated to know!


Lynn:

Boob Tube:  A television set. (Boob: "A stupid or
foolish person; a dolt" (who watches too much
TV); Tube: the cathode ray tube of a TV
receiver.)  Another term used is the idiot box.

The boob tube you described is what I would call
a tube top.  See, I am going to have to learn a
new language. LOL

Lynn

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From s_ings at yahoo.com  Fri May 16 12:10:28 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 08:10:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Belated Birthday Wishes for Mariana!
Message-ID: <20030516121028.52334.qmail@web41110.mail.yahoo.com>

*drags out cake and places it in the center of the
room*

Note the extra large size of the cake, baked
especially to apologise for the lateness of the
celebration.

Mariana celebrated her birthday on the 14th. Belated
birthday owls can be sent to this list or directly to
marugg at fibertel.com.ar

I hope your day was everything you hoped... and more.

Happy Birthday, Mariana!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf

=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From s_ings at yahoo.com  Fri May 16 12:15:50 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 08:15:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Two Birthdays Today!
Message-ID: <20030516121550.92193.qmail@web41106.mail.yahoo.com>

*stares in dismay at the huge pile of decorations that
are yet to be placed around the the room*

You, over there. Come and give me a hand with these
decorations. We have two birthdays today and I'm very
much behind.

Today's birthday honourees are Scott and Minzzer.
Birthday owls can be sent care of this list and
Minzzer's owls can be sent directly to:
minzzer at hotmail.com

May both of you have days filled with fun, magic and
everything HP.

Happy Birthday, Scott!
Happy Birthday, Minzzer!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf

=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Fri May 16 12:35:16 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 05:35:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Two Birthdays Today!
In-Reply-To: <20030516121550.92193.qmail@web41106.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030516123516.86918.qmail@web21210.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Sheryll wrote:
> You, over there. Come and give me a hand with
> these
> decorations. We have two birthdays today and
> I'm very
> much behind.

Lynn:

*starting to help Sheryll with the decorating
while singing Happy Birthday to Scott and
Minzzer*

Don't know how you do it Sheryll.  It's really
great that you took on this task.  Just wanted to
say thanks for all you do.  Now, what needs to be
put up next?

Lynn

Oh, and I didn't forget

HAPPY BIRTHDAY SCOTT
HAPPY BIRTHDAY MINZZER
May you both have an extra special day!

=====
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From huntleyl at mssm.org  Fri May 16 12:50:51 2003
From: huntleyl at mssm.org (Laura Ingalls Huntley)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 08:50:51 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
References: <ba2bs6+hshq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c31ba9$c81d6b20$4301a8c0@huntleyl>

> Fascinated by the above comments, Sally writes:
> I'm a Brit through and through, so I confess, yes I get hideously
> irritated by Americanisms such as 'bangs' and yes I am still reduced
> school-girlish giggles at the mention of 'fanny packs' but.... boob
> tubes??!!

    Oh, come on.  That is patently unfair.  All the Brits I know would
launch into a violent rant if an American were to complain about *their*
slang and/or language differences.  Have a little respect.  Trust me, a
British student coming to an American school and asking for a "rubber" would
get some giggles as well.  We've lived on different continents for a few
centuries now.  *I* find it rather impressive that we haven't got a lot
*more* in the way of language discrepancies.

> Maybe I'm naive but as far as I know a boob tube is a lady's
> strapless top. ('Boobs' being a casual term for breasts, and 'tube'
> indicating the shape of the garment.)

In America, it's a slang word for a television.  Not one I particularly care
for, mind you, mostly because of the fact that "boob" is, in this case, used
to meaning 'stupid person', but it's also the slang for "breast."  *shakes
head*

Laura (who tried to go to physics class this morning an entire *hour* early)





From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Fri May 16 13:16:14 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 06:16:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
In-Reply-To: <001b01c31ba9$c81d6b20$4301a8c0@huntleyl>
Message-ID: <20030516131614.28236.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Laura wrote:
> *I* find it rather impressive
> that we haven't got a lot
> *more* in the way of language discrepancies.


Lynn:

One of the funniest things I heard with regard to
the language discrepancies between British,
American and Australian English came from a guy
on my husband's ship.

When a Dutch guy was introduced on Gen. Frank's
staff and the question was raised why he was
there, the comment made was that the Dutch guy
was there as a translator so that the Americans,
British and Australians could understand each
other.

Lynn

=====
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From jen_tabor at voila.fr  Fri May 16 14:26:24 2003
From: jen_tabor at voila.fr (Jen Tabor)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 14:26:24 -0000
Subject: Beavers
In-Reply-To: <ba1qrm+f60l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ba2seg+ph71@eGroups.com>

Catlady wrote:

> > March 1, 2000 on ATC 
> (http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=1071034 for    
the audio): "Beaver College -- a school outside Philadelphia that 
> originated in Beaver County, Pennsylvania -- is considering a name 
> change. The word beaver, often used in vulgar reference to the     
> female anatomy, is blocked by some Internet filters designed to    
> prevent access to pornography. Research also shows that 30-percent  
> of the school's prospective students decide against it because     
> of the name. Noah speaks with Bill Avington, Media Relations        
> Manager at Beaver College in Glenside, Pennsylvania. "

*pokes head out of lurkerdom* 
As a senior at The-College-Formerly-Known-As-Beaver :-D, which is now 
Arcadia University, I got to witness all the hullabaloo that happened 
when the name change was announced.  There was far more media 
attention than expected, both when the prospective name change was 
under discussion in 2000, and in November 2001, when the new name 
itself was finally announced. Being a member of the last class to 
enter under the name "Beaver", I find that it's now a bit strange to 
know that there are already first-year students who have never known 
the school as Beaver College, and that our sports teams' unofficial 
motto *Some play for money, Some play for glory, We play for Beaver* 
is now moot!

*ducks back to count the days until June 21st*
JT




From katherine.coble at crgibson.com  Fri May 16 15:05:27 2003
From: katherine.coble at crgibson.com (Coble, Katherine)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 11:05:27 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: The Matrix with a small rant on ratings
Message-ID: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3F82@teserver01.treat.net>



> ----------
> From: 	Melody
> Reply To: 	HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 	Thursday, May 15, 2003 11:04 PM
> To: 	HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: 	[HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: The Matrix with a small rant on
> ratings
> 
> Mel wrote:
> > Question:
> > Is it appropriate (relatively speaking) for a 13 year old? 
> 
Mycropht writes back:

I think that the huff and puff about carding everyone and being so exacting
is a direct result of MANY
people associating the first movie with the Columbine Shootings.  The whole
"Trenchcoat Mafia" group
that the two shooters belonged to was inspired in large part by _The
Matrix_.   

I'm _not_ saying that the movie cause the boys to kill or any of that
controversial stuff.  I'm just saying that I
think that to a large segment of society that movie is a flashpoint for this
very reason.

Mycropht
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From psychic_serpent at yahoo.com  Fri May 16 16:15:55 2003
From: psychic_serpent at yahoo.com (psychic_serpent)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 16:15:55 -0000
Subject: The Matrix with a small rant on ratings
In-Reply-To: <ba1nvm+uvsu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ba32rr+8tfu@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Melody" <Malady579 at h...> 
wrote:
> Mel wrote:
> > Question:
> > Is it appropriate (relatively speaking) for a 13 year old? Yes, 
> > he's seen the 1st one (on video) and is trying to make the point 
> > that the "R" rating is because "you know, it's--well, things are 
> > messed up!" Funny thing is I know what he means. Anyone else 
> > seen this? Would you bring the tweens?

First off, as the mother of a 10 1/2 year old and an 8 1/2 year old, 
I think there's a big difference between seeing a film in a theatre, 
on the big screen, and seeing something on the television screen at 
home.  It just doesn't have the same impact.  After a lot of 
begging, we finally let our son see the first Lord of the Rings film 
(rated PG-13) last fall, about the time of his tenth birthday, 
warning him that it was a bit violent in parts, not to mention long, 
so if he needed us to stop the DVD player at any time, we would be 
glad to give him a break.  We also made sure we watched it with 
him.  He decided that he liked it and that it was rather long (a 
couple of breaks were necessary).  He's watched it again since then 
by doing it in even smaller doses.  We haven't let our daughter see 
it yet.

When it comes to R movies, my parents took me to my first when I was 
twelve.  It was "Network."  (I think Paddy Chayefsky would be 
absolutely boggled if he saw the reality programming on television 
today; it just goes to show you, fact is always stranger than 
fiction.)  I believe that "Network" had an R rating at the time 
(there was no PG-13 back then) for a combination of the sex 
(although there wasn't blatant nudity) and the rather complicated 
message.  Although there was some violence in it, it was nowhere 
near as pervasive as the violence in, say, a Van Damme movie or 
something like the original Matrix.  If someone were doing a remake, 
I think they'd have to add a good bit of sex and/or violence to make 
it R, rather than PG-13.  I think the message would still be over 
the heads of most people who like to attend PG-13 films, so they'd 
probably end up putting those things in just to make it feel more 
like a 'grown-up' film, so the film would find its intended audience.
 
> But serious, I did not find anything majorly "R rated" about the
> movie.  Of course there is tons of violence.  Of course, there is a
> wee-bit of profanity in English and French (though the French
> profanity may not of been so wee-bit since I do not know French but
> the guy who said it in the movie said it was profanity...good line
> after too...anyway).  Even a wee, barely even noticeable, bit of
> nudity, but nothing at all blatant and in your face.  Kind of 
> subtle really.  But nothing that I would think a person under 17 
> would not be able to handle.  

The amount of time spent on violence probably had a lot to do with 
the rating.  And different people have different ideas about whether 
or when they will allow their kids to see something with any nudity 
at all, subtle or otherwise.  When it comes to pervasive violence, 
for instance, my husband and I thought the second Lord of the Rings 
film was very, very violent.  The battle goes on for quite a long 
time.  It was very well done for that reason, actually; it was a 
war, and war is protracted and messy.  That was also communicated 
in 'Saving Private Ryan,' which, IMO, because of the intimacy of the 
violence, could probably have easily carried an NC-17 rating.  It 
was so scarily realistic, I don't know of a single WWII vet--and I 
know many--who agreed to go see it.  They have their nightmares for 
that.  Even though we let our son see the first LOTR film on DVD, we 
didn't want to take him to see the second one in the theatre.  He'll 
be about eleven by the time it's on DVD and video, and we think he 
should see it at home again, on the small screen, if he's 
interested.  We liked the controlled environment of watching the 
first LOTR movie with him that way.  The fact that he could stop the 
film whenever he wanted gave him an out when he needed a break.

> You know, I think it is mostly R rated because of the philosophy it
> covers.  I know I saw a few eyes glaze over when they got into the
> philosophy of fate, hope, and faith.  Went *way* over some of their
> heads, but then again, I live in Texas.  

Now, now.  Give your fellow Texans some credit.  (Note: I am not 
from Texas.)  My mother-in-law is from Amarillo and, before her 
stroke, was quite capable of discussing deep philosophical issues.  
I think, though, that you've hit on something else about the 
rating.  By forcing viewers to be older, they might be more capable 
of grasping the underlying philosophy of the story.  The violence 
isn't just in the service of violence; it's in the service of the 
communication of a particular worldview, and if that message is lost 
or flies over a youngster's head, all they're likely to get out of 
it is the violence.  I think that's as good a reason as any for a 
kid who's under fifteen or even sixteen having to wait to see any of 
the Matrix movies.  I strongly doubt that a twelve or thirteen year 
old is going to understand the message instead of just revelling in 
the cool effects that allow Keanu Reeves to appear to defy the laws 
of physics.

> But then again, aren't all intelligent, good movies lost to the 
> inexperienced or uneducated...young *or* old?  So maybe, Hollywood 
> is not rating films the way I would.  Some people should not see 
> some movies when they will not cry at the delicacy of it or the 
> carefully weaved script or the subtle message of its conclusion.

Some wonderful stories will always be wasted on those who only see 
what's on the surface.  For this very reason, our son will probably 
not see a PG-13 movie in a theatre, instead of the controlled 
environment of our home, until he's at least 12, and he will also 
have to see his first R-rated film at home, watched with us 
present.  Extreme and protracted violence on a huge screen, when the 
viewer is too young to grasp any underlying philosophical reason for 
the violence, is probably just too overwhelming for a 'tween.'  And 
if they're not overwhelmed, they should be.  I don't want to 
desensitize my son to violence or have him think it's just fun 
entertainment.  If a kid is too young to understand the reason for 
the violence in the Matrix films, he's too young for the films, IMO.

--Barb

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychic_Serpent
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb





From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Fri May 16 17:28:16 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 10:28:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What not to say in Australia / UK
In-Reply-To: <ba1qrm+f60l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030516172816.7918.qmail@web21105.mail.yahoo.com>

Yours truly:
> Do beavers as a species exist in
> Australia? Someone who had worked 
> on the old Nickelodeon show "Two
> Angry Beavers" once told me that the 
> show had to change names when
> exported to Australia because in 
> Australia, 'beavers' does not mean
> dam-building water dwellers with 
> big flat tails.

Shaun Hately, in part:
> Well, it's true 'beavers' has a
> different meaning in Australia
> (and not one you'd want to 
> use on a kids show) but Australian
> kids know what a beaver is -
> interesting thing about growing up
> in Australia is that a lot of kids
> know European and American things -
> like geography, history, and
> wildlife - pretty much as well as
> Europeans or Americans because so
> much of our TV comes from those
> markets.

Yes, my line of thinking was that 
maybe some of the intended audience 
are familiar with the reference 
to genitalia but surely the first 
thoughts of most of the kids would be 
of the cute little river swimmers.

still Shaun:
> The Angry Beavers was shown 
> here, but the title wasn't changed
> as far as I know - I suppose it's
> possible it was at first but it
> definitely currently airs under
> that title. Same with leave it to
> Beaver. Certainly been shown here
> under that title.

Ah!  I thought I felt my leg tugged 
by that mischievous imp...or maybe 
I mistook "considered changing name" 
for "definitely changing name."  :)

Catlady, in part:
> Here in USA, "beaver" has another
> meaning, as slang for, um, female 
> genitalia ... which is why
> publications like HUSTLER are
> described as having "split beaver"
> shots, and why there is a t-shirt
> labelled "Ward, weren't you a
> little hard on the Beaver last night?".

Funny you should mention that t-shirt 
because that joke was part of the 
original conversation, IIRC.

Speaking of unintended double entendre, 
did "Free Willy" go under a different 
title in the UK?

Petra
a
n  :)

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From prittylina at yahoo.com  Fri May 16 17:39:08 2003
From: prittylina at yahoo.com (L)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 17:39:08 -0000
Subject: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
In-Reply-To: <001b01c31ba9$c81d6b20$4301a8c0@huntleyl>
Message-ID: <ba37ns+fr45@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Laura wrote:
> Oh, come on.  That is patently unfair.  All the Brits I know would
> launch into a violent rant if an American were to complain about 
> *their* slang and/or language differences.  Have a little 
> respect.  Trust me, a British student coming to an American school 
> and asking for a "rubber" would get some giggles as well.  We've 
> lived on different continents for a few centuries now.  *I* find 
> it rather impressive that we haven't got a lot *more* in the way 
> of language discrepancies.

I don't. It's not as if we're North/South Korea, whose dialects have 
changed so dramatically in the years that they've been split that 
one often needs a translator if there are (non-official) 
communications between the two. It's due to the integration of the 
two, culturally (I'm certain there still exists a high number of 
Anglophiles in the US), as well the mere trade of the written word 
(and with the modern expanse of communication being what it is...). 
Perhaps if the US were staunch anti-British for a hundred years or 
so and worked to keep anything and everything British outside its 
borders (which, of course, they would also close to those heathens 
at their north, the Canadians)... 

> Laura (who tried to go to physics class this morning an entire 
> *hour* early)

Goodness, and it's not even daylight saving's. :) (Not that I can 
say anything -- I open the bakery on Sunday mornings and have 
managed to either arrive early or late on every single one of those 
days simply because I'm not aware of it. I mean, really, it is 
rather pointless, isn't it?) 


L, who, while playing with her pet bird, also managed to destroy a
(nother) tea kettle this morning due to her obliviousness




From marl2580 at yahoo.co.uk  Fri May 16 17:40:12 2003
From: marl2580 at yahoo.co.uk (marl2580)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 17:40:12 -0000
Subject: What not to say in Scotland and in Australia
In-Reply-To: <20030515225819.18863.qmail@web21105.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ba37ps+4rcr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Petra Pan <
ms_petra_pan at y...> wrote:
> When in Scotland, never refer to 
> anything Scottish as being English.  
> British?  Maybe.  English?  Only if 
> you want to glared at!  No one 
> believed that it was just a slip of 
> the tongue as opposed to complete 
> ignorance of Scottish history on my 
> part...<g>

You didn't did you? Do you have a death wish? I'm surprised all 
you got was glares - you must have been in a polite area like 
Edinburgh, if you said that here (Dundee) you'd get a little more 
than glares. Not that I approve of this terrible racism that the 
Scots have against the English, but I do find myself shouting at 
the TV when American programmes call Great Britan 'England'. I 
think I better shut up now, before I offend too many people.

Marley




From prittylina at yahoo.com  Fri May 16 18:58:05 2003
From: prittylina at yahoo.com (L)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 18:58:05 -0000
Subject: What not to say in Scotland and in Australia
In-Reply-To: <ba37ps+4rcr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ba3cbt+kd39@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Marley wrote:
> Not that I approve of this terrible racism that the 
> Scots have against the English, but I do find myself shouting at 
> the TV when American programmes call Great Britan 'England'. I 
> think I better shut up now, before I offend too many people.

Wait, you mean that they're not the same thing? ;D 


L, thinking that Scots must be really lucky if they have a wide 
variety of American programs, especially if they have those wacky 
Brazilian ones... <3




From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Fri May 16 19:33:30 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:33:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What not to say in Scotland
In-Reply-To: <ba37ps+4rcr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030516193330.62630.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com>

Yours truly:
> > When in Scotland, never refer to 
> > anything Scottish as being English.  
> > British?  Maybe.  English?  Only if 
> > you want to [be] glared at!  No one 
> > believed that it was just a slip of 
> > the tongue as opposed to complete 
> > ignorance of Scottish history on my 
> > part...<g>

Marley:
> You didn't did you? Do you have
> a death wish?

<giggle>  Well now, at least I didn't 
call the single-malts "English!"  See, 
this is what happens when you nod off 
on the plane before you finish reading 
the tourist advice book with the cheat 
sheets that remind you of stuff like 
this...

IIRC, someone had asked me about 
whether I am getting used to the food 
yet.  Since I was just in London the 
day before, I said something about 
hoping to try some real English food 
(like my personal favorite, fish and 
chips instead of the Big Mac at the 
train station, on my way back to the 
airport).  I think they thought I was 
referring to the haggis in front of 
me...<oops!>

Marley:
> I'm surprised all you got was
> glares - you must have been in
> a polite area like Edinburgh,
> if you said that here (Dundee)
> you'd get a little more than
> glares.

Luckily, I am a fast learner.  :)  
But it was VERY strange to realize 
that for once, I am glad of the 
fact that as a 'lassie' who's also 
the 'ignorant Yank,' no one is all 
that likely to take a swing at me.

Marley:
> Not that I approve of this
> terrible racism that the 
> Scots have against the English,
> but I do find myself shouting at 
> the TV when American programmes
> call Great Britan 'England'. I 
> think I better shut up now,
> before I offend too many people.

<sigh>  Yes, here in the US, the 
general public thinks of everything 
that is British as being English.  
In fact, when I related my faux pas 
to co-workers, only one person 
understood why the Scots took 
offense...and she only knew about 
this because she's a huge Mel Gibson 
fan and has seen Braveheart about a 
dozen times.  OTOH, one young Scot 
(half-kiddingly?) wondered why I 
didn't sound more like Scarlet 
O'Hara even after I said that I live 
in California.

And yes, you guessed correctly.  I 
was in Edinburgh in September of 
2001 (where various people tried in 
vain to teach me the proper 
pronunciation of "Edinburgh" and 
"Gaelic").  I suspect the glares would 
have been even less potent if I wasn't 
speaking in an American accent only 
days after Blair had seemingly 
committed UK to war.

Petra
a
n  :)

__________________________________
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From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Fri May 16 19:41:10 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:41:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: What not to say in Scotland and in Australia
In-Reply-To: <ba37ps+4rcr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030516194110.26978.qmail@web21203.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Marley wrote:
> but I do find
> myself shouting at 
> the TV when American programmes call Great
> Britan 'England'.


Lynn:

That's okay, there are those in Canada and Mexico
who shout when others call the US, America. 
After all, Canada and Mexico are in (North)
America as well.


Lynn

=====
For the international news that's fit to print
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cnnworldnewsq-a

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com



From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Fri May 16 18:45:39 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 11:45:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Beavers
In-Reply-To: <ba2seg+ph71@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030516184539.17142.qmail@web21202.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Jen wrote:
> and that our
> sports teams' unofficial 
> motto *Some play for money, Some play for
> glory, We play for Beaver* 
> is now moot!


Lynn:

Well, given athletic stereotypes, it may not be
moot depending on who is playing for what.  LOL

Lynn

=====
For the international news that's fit to print
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cnnworldnewsq-a

__________________________________
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The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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From foxmoth at qnet.com  Fri May 16 22:37:02 2003
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 22:37:02 -0000
Subject: ADMIN: Quoting of Articles
Message-ID: <ba3p6e+rj95@eGroups.com>

????	
Greetings from Hexquarters!

The List Administration Team would like to remind you that 
quotation in full of *any* news article is a breach of intellectual 
property laws.

Instead, please send a URL link to HPFGU-Announcements or 
OT-Chatter (ideally with a brief summary or quotation and your 
comments) -- *not* the main HPforGrownups list. Discussion, 
unless canon-based, should take place on OTChatter.

Please follow these guidelines. We will delete any post which in 
our view risks breaching the law or Yahoo's Terms of Use. It is 
copyright infringement to quote articles in full, and we *really* 
don't want to be sued. *smile* 


Thanks for understanding,

The List Administration Team





From trisha.masen at verizon.net  Fri May 16 23:06:34 2003
From: trisha.masen at verizon.net (Trisha Masen)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 23:06:34 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter and The Matrix
In-Reply-To: <ba1bqq+avmv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ba3qtq+c896@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "melclaros" <melclaros at y...> 
wrote:
> Question:
> Is it appropriate (relatively speaking) for a 13 year old? Yes, 
he's 
> seen the 1st one (on video) and is trying to make the point that 
> the "R" rating is because "you know, it's--well, things are messed 
> up!" Funny thing is I know what he means. Anyone else seen this? 
> Would you bring the tweens?
> 
> Mel--new to this teenage thing, and was just told "NO" in no 
> uncertain terms when *she* was 13. Hmph.

I would say, no, it is not appropriate for a 13-year-old.  There are 
highly-charged sexual situations and violence (though, I think less 
blood-and-guts than the first movie, but still violent).  There are 
reasons for the R-ratings.  I don't know if a 13-year-old would be 
able to distinguish the subtleties - it may just look like a video 
game to him.

~Trisha
(would have replied sooner, but I get this list in digest)




From trisha.masen at verizon.net  Fri May 16 23:10:37 2003
From: trisha.masen at verizon.net (Trisha Masen)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 23:10:37 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter and The Matrix
In-Reply-To: <ba1bqq+avmv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ba3r5d+mgr3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "melclaros" <melclaros at y...> 
wrote:
> Question:
> Is it appropriate (relatively speaking) for a 13 year old? Yes, 
he's 
> seen the 1st one (on video) and is trying to make the point that 
> the "R" rating is because "you know, it's--well, things are messed 
> up!" Funny thing is I know what he means. Anyone else seen this? 
> Would you bring the tweens?
> 
> Mel--new to this teenage thing, and was just told "NO" in no 
> uncertain terms when *she* was 13. Hmph.

I would say, no, it is not appropriate for a 13-year-old.  There are 
highly-charged sexual situations and violence (though, I think less 
blood-and-guts than the first movie, but still violent).  There are 
reasons for the R-ratings.  I don't know if a 13-year-old would be 
able to distinguish the subtleties - it may just look like a video 
game to him.

~Trisha
(would have replied sooner, but I get this list in digest)




From bruney200 at yahoo.com  Sat May 17 04:17:20 2003
From: bruney200 at yahoo.com (Tasha)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 04:17:20 -0000
Subject: Does anybody?
Message-ID: <ba4d4g+e2ig@eGroups.com>

Does anybody have any pictures of Rita Skeeter or you know anybody 
that is like her and deserves the title of Rita Skeeter the snitch 
witch? If you do please send me a picture to my email at 
bruney200 at y... or send it to my new group at 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/I-Hate-Rita-Skeeter/
Thank you.

Tasha
Owner of HarryPotterRocksatHogwarts at yahoogroups.com






From catlady at wicca.net  Sat May 17 06:29:49 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 06:29:49 -0000
Subject: Two Birthdays Today!
In-Reply-To: <20030516121550.92193.qmail@web41106.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ba4kst+3s23@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Sheryll Townsend <s_ings at y...> 
wrote:
> 
> Mariana celebrated her birthday on the 14th. Belated
> birthday owls can be sent to this list or directly to
> marugg at f...
> 
> Today's birthday honourees are Scott and Minzzer.

Belated Birthday Congratulations to Mariana Lady Pampa (to whom I 
commented once about Dumbledorimagus), Scott (us_insanus?), Minzzer, 
and the evil twin Rezznim.






From gandharvika at hotmail.com  Sat May 17 11:06:44 2003
From: gandharvika at hotmail.com (Gail Bohacek)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 11:06:44 +0000
Subject: Beavers
Message-ID: <Law8-F33QbDOEYrp0UI00020871@hotmail.com>

Catlady (Hi, Rita!)  Wrote:

>March 1, 2000 on ATC
>(http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=1071034 for the
>audio): "Beaver College -- a school outside Philadelphia that
>originated in Beaver County, Pennsylvania -- is considering a name
>change. The word beaver, often used in vulgar reference to the female
>anatomy, is blocked by some Internet filters designed to prevent
>access to pornography. Research also shows that 30-percent of the
>school's prospective students decide against it because of the name.
>Noah speaks with Bill Avington, Media Relations Manager at Beaver
>College in Glenside, Pennsylvania. "

And what a beautiful college it is, too!

How's this for a "beaver" anecdote?:   In Michigan, !6 Mile Road is also 
known as "Big Beaver" Road.  And the exit number to get to it off the 
freeway?  69, of course!

-Gail B...who grew up around 13 Mile, which is nothing like 8 Mile.

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail




From sally at gristiegraphics.co.uk  Sat May 17 12:44:25 2003
From: sally at gristiegraphics.co.uk (Sally Grist)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 12:44:25 -0000
Subject: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
In-Reply-To: <001b01c31ba9$c81d6b20$4301a8c0@huntleyl>
Message-ID: <ba5ar9+if0j@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Laura Ingalls Huntley" 
<huntleyl at m...> wrote:
>     Oh, come on.  That is patently unfair.  All the Brits I know 
would
> launch into a violent rant if an American were to complain about 
*their*
> slang and/or language differences.  Have a little respect.  


Oooh Laura! I wasn't being disrespectful, honest guv! (as they say 
in London) 

I didn't mean to make you think I was REALLY turning my nose up at 
American English, I was just laughing at myself for being known to 
display all the stereo-typical symptoms of a pompous Brit! A 
confession of my own irrationality really, and certainly not an 
attempt to justify such an attitude!  

Please forgive me?

Humbly, 
Sal

PS. At least I now know that there might be some confusion if I went 
into a US fashion shop and asked to purchase a boob tube :o)




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Sat May 17 14:19:37 2003
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 00:19:37 +1000
Subject: Beavering away
Message-ID: <006701c31c7f$5eda6060$ea8386cb@price>

Petra Pan:
>> Do beavers as a species exist in 
>> Australia?
Shaun:
> Only as an introduced species. Basically virtually every native mammal in Australia is a 
> marsupial (there's a tiny mouse that is a placental mammal). Closest equivalent to the 
> beaver in terms of place in the ecosystem is the very weird monotreme, the platypus.

Ah, the joys of convergent evolution.  The platypus does have that beaverish flat tail, too.  On the subject of introduced species, note that Shaun doesn't mean that there are tribes of feral beavers populating Australian waterways!  Any beavers in Australia would be strictly zoo exhibits only.  That said, I haven't visited Frankston (where Shaun lives) for ten years, so I can't vouch for this.  The place could be teeming with beavers for all I know...

Still on the subject of beavers, I'd bet that a reasonable proportion of English-speaking children the world over would be familiar with what they are, regardless of the beaver population of their country, from "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe".

Australians tend to understand both British and American slang from television and film, but tend to use the British words themselves (or a local word, if there is one).  Words which have suggestive association in the US or UK tend to acquire it in Australia as well, which means that "rubber" (eraser) is starting to get phased out, and "thong" (which in Australia always meant a rubber flip flop sandal with a thing between the toes, and is a bit of a national icon) is starting to raise giggles because of its American connotation of G-string.

Reminds me of the tendency for given names to start out as male and then become almost exclusively female after too many girls had been given them (e.g. Meredith).  Many a gender politics message to be gleaned, no doubt.  Curious.  I occasionally wonder if Cameron (Diaz) and Michael (Princess, of Kent) might eventually go the same way...

Tabouli.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net  Sat May 17 14:40:04 2003
From: anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net (Anne)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 14:40:04 -0000
Subject: Beavers
In-Reply-To: <Law8-F33QbDOEYrp0UI00020871@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ba5hk4+uems@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Gail Bohacek" 
<gandharvika at h...> wrote:
>> 
> How's this for a "beaver" anecdote?:   In Michigan, !6 Mile Road is 
also 
> known as "Big Beaver" Road.  And the exit number to get to it off 
the 
> freeway?  69, of course!
> 

Are you sure this isn't the road to Intercourse? Intercourse, 
Pennsylvania, of course. It's a real town. I swear. In Lancaster 
County, epicenter of Amish culture in the U.S.A.... and it's not too 
far from Blue Ball.

Anne U
(check the Rand McNally Road Atlas. I am not making this up.)




From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Sat May 17 14:52:56 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 07:52:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Beavering away
In-Reply-To: <006701c31c7f$5eda6060$ea8386cb@price>
Message-ID: <20030517145256.37080.qmail@web21207.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Tabouli wrote:
> and "thong" (which in Australia
> always meant a rubber flip flop sandal with a
> thing between the toes, and is a bit of a
> national icon) is starting to raise giggles
> because of its American connotation of
> G-string.


Lynn:

I grew up knowing that a thong was a rubber flip
flop sandal, that's what we always called them
ourselves.  But then, if there was thong
underwear back then, it was strictly a backroom,
under-the-counter kind of thing.  I think it was
sometime in the 90s when I had to force myself to
stop calling them thongs and start calling them
flip flops otherwise people didn't know what I
was talking about.

Lynn

=====
For the international news that's fit to print
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cnnworldnewsq-a

__________________________________
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The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com



From lynntownsend100 at yahoo.com  Sat May 17 15:07:54 2003
From: lynntownsend100 at yahoo.com (Lynn)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 08:07:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Fwd:  Order of the Pheonix spoilers from Scholastic Inc. (Plus my own predictions)
Message-ID: <20030517150754.5203.qmail@web41414.mail.yahoo.com>



Lynn <lynntownsend100 at yahoo.com> wrote: Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 19:54:56 -0000
From: "Lynn" 
To: lynntownsend100 at yahoo.com
Subject: Fwd: Order of the Pheonix spoilers from Scholastic Inc. (Plus my own predictions)

--- In Lynns_forwards at yahoogroups.com, "Lynn" 
wrote:
My predictions first:

1)Either Hagrid or a formerly-minor character is going to be the 
one who "gets snuffed"
2)Harry's going to spend some time in the "mental health ward" at 
St. Mungo's
3)While both Hermione and Ron are probably going to survive OoP,one
(or *both*)will probably be dead before the end of the series
4)While it's the hope of many a FanFic writer that Draco will be
*some* kind of spy or something for The Forces of Good,the
fact remains that he will remain an evil little ferret. The 
only question that I have is when is he going to move on from
schoolboy pranks to *real* criminal behavior.(I.E. Torturing
muggles)
5)Cornelius Fudge is either a stupid git or some kind of agent for
"you-know-who"
6)Harry himself will probably be killed during the final battle.(If
I had a volume of HP "slash" for every time I read a phrase
similar to,"Well he probably wasn't going to live to see 
eighteen/graduation anyway, so..." Oh wait, I do! Hee,Hee,hee.)

S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
S 
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
I HOPE that's enough, cause that's all yer getting!


Spoilers from Scholastics Catalog(REAL spoilers!! Stuff in () are
my own comments and observations,except for the one in #9.

1)Harry has dreams of a single door in a silent corridor and it is
More terrifying of all his other nightmares ever(EEEEEK!)
2)Ron becomes the new Gryffindor Quidditch Keeper(YAY! If I may
make one more prediction...I suspect that a LOT of Fanfics
(of the "slashy" variety)are going to have "the shower scene"
[Harry/Ron, Ron/Draco] in them after OoP comes out. Drool!)
3)The Defence Against The Dark Arts Teacher will be a woman, only
she will have a personality like poisoned honey.(Whatever 
that means)
4)There will be a venomous,disgruntled house-elf(I wonder what 
Hermione [She of the House-elf Liberation front]will make of
her, and I wonder if that house elf is Winky...)
5)Harry and the rest of the fifth years will have to face the dreaded
Ordinary Wizarding Level exams(DUH! WE ALL KNEW THIS!!)
6)There is already a rift in the wizarding world over the return of
Voldemort, as some don't want to believe that he is back and
think it is just a conspiracy of some kind to frighten people
7)Harry has to deal with the unreliability of the ministry of Magic
and the impotence of the authorities at Hogwarts
8)Professor Lupin will be back(Again, YAY!)
9)Characters only mentioned in previous book will be seen(I.E. 
Mundudgus Fletcher)
10)There will be a new sorting hat song (Again, DUH!)
11)[Not mentioned in the list I got from the Prydonians,but I just
thought I'd mention it...]Mrs. Figg, Harry's former baby-sitter,
is a member of the "Order"

Oh Yeah, Remember "The Last Page of OoP" that I'd posted a couple of
months ago? Apperantly it was an april fool's joke. I only
found that out when I posted it on a "HP debates and rumors"
group and I asked if it was legit. Within minutes I had several
answers from all over the world saying the same thing,"Of course
it's a fake,you fool! Didn't you see the 'april fool's' message
at the bottom?" Well, actually no I didn't, but thank you for
sharing.(No really, I hadn't)

Oh, one last thing. Left Behind is now officially OFF my reading list.
There still one book left to go and they kill off ALL the MAIN
characters!!!(The moral of *this* story is apperently, people
don't matter because jesus is coming back.[And if he's takes
longer than 30 minutes, you get your pizza for free!])I NORMALLY
wouldn't mention it, but I'm ticked off! I mean, it's badly
written,full of clieces(Oh I *can't spell that word!)not even
theologically correct, and the wife of one of the authors is
anti-porn. Which is REALLY funny considering how violent this
series is. And I knew going in that there would be a high body 
count, but COME ON!!!ALL the smegging MAIN characters? Hell,
even Mrs. Rowling is even with the most pessimistic outcome
is going to have Harry survive until the end.(Wiether he 
survives *past* that is another story...)AND she's a DAMN 
better writer to boot.(Which may be why they [the people who
are trying to wipe out fun in our life time and who are for
freedom of speach-for only stuff that they like]hate the HP
books-jealosy pure and simple.)
Normally it's good manners to put "spoiler" space at the end of 
things like this, but I think that I ranted long enought to
cover that, don't you? If I didn't, my apologies. Now if you 
don't mind, I was in the middle of reading a Romance/Plot What
Plot?(PWP) with SS/HP which I'd like to go back to before I
get kicked off for the day.

Hope you enjoyed(or "nuked"before you saw them if not)the spoilers.
No thanks needed,it's my job. LOL

Lynn Townsend Lynns_forwards listmom
--- End forwarded message ---









Fandom isn't a matter of life or death...it's *much* more important than that
-"Nancy Button"
"Oh yeah,that old 'I'm not gay,it's just the Imerious curse' excuse!"said Draco 
comtempuously. "I really think you need to start facing up to your sexuality,Harry.
Maybe you need counseling or something."
-Quote from "The Silver Chain" by Dahlia from the "Potter Slash Archives"
www.psa.shadow-wrapped.net

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From penumbra10 at ameritech.net  Sat May 17 15:43:25 2003
From: penumbra10 at ameritech.net (Nia)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 15:43:25 -0000
Subject: WANTED:  Grammar Expert
In-Reply-To: <b9thnm+pf26@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ba5lat+nko7@eGroups.com>

Hi,

I teach English and "Language Arts" and I found the following error:

"Toni Morrison's genius enables her to create novels that arise from 
> and express the injustices African Americans have endured."

This is a very awkward sentence, mainly because of the cumbersome 
antecedent.  The pronoun "her" is incorrect if the antecedent 
is "Toni Morrison's genius."  A pronoun MUST agree with its 
antecedent.  The pronoun "her" refers to a person.  Toni Morrison's 
genius is a thing.  In order to be correct, the sentence must be 
reworded.  Were this a college-level paper, I'd also ask the student 
to qualify the use of the word "genius," since there are a number of 
authors who have been able to effectively depict the injustices 
African Americans have endured.  The word "genius" as used here 
suggests that Ms. Morrison is the only author so enabled.
:-) Nia


--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." 
<cindysphinx at c...> wrote:
> Hey,
> 
> I saw this in today's Washington Post, and I thought I'd test you 
> guys.  Please, if you know the answer from reading about this in 
the 
> media, let's keep the answer a secret and let folks who didn't 
read 
> the story have a go.  
> 
> OK.  
> 
> A major standardized test in the U.S. asked students whether there 
> was an error in grammar in the following sentence:
> 
> "Toni Morrison's genius enables her to create novels that arise 
from 
> and express the injustices African Americans have endured."
> 
> Yes, there is an error (although the testing bureau denied that 
> there was an scored "no error" as the correct answer).  A panel of 
> outside experts in grammar was hired to rule, and they identified 
an 
> error in grammar, forcing the testing bureau to re-score the exam.
> 
> What is the error?
> 
> Cindy -- who could not find the error




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sat May 17 15:45:42 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 11:45:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Happy Birthday, Megan!
Message-ID: <20030517154542.39598.qmail@web41107.mail.yahoo.com>

*quickly picks up the mess from the last party and
straightens the decorations*

Okay, cake is on it's way. There's lots of food for
everyone, so step right in and join the festivities.

Today's birthday honouree is Megan aka Rhiannon333.
Birthday owls can be sent care of this list or
directly to rhiannon333 at hotmail.com

May your day be magical and filled with fun.

Happy Birthay, Megan!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf

=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From elenasnape at yahoo.com  Sat May 17 18:53:28 2003
From: elenasnape at yahoo.com (Elena)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 18:53:28 -0000
Subject: A fic
Message-ID: <ba60f8+ov9r@eGroups.com>

Hello. I am writing a new Snape fic.

Genre: Drama/Angst/Romance

Pairing: Snape/OC

Rating: R

Link: http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=1336947

Plot: Severus Snape is terribly suffering. Will somebody be there to 
alleviate his pain?

And please review. 

Thanks!

Love,

Elena Snape






From mdemeran at hotmail.com  Sat May 17 19:19:29 2003
From: mdemeran at hotmail.com (Meg Demeranville)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 14:19:29 -0500
Subject: You know you're obsessed with Harry Potter when....
Message-ID: <000e01c31ca9$3cc94520$6501a8c0@MFD>

you watch an article about a Pet Doorbell and see the connection.
 
The article on TechTV was about an older gentleman who trained his cat,
Phoneix, to ring a doorbell to come into the house. All I could think was
hey look, it's Dumbledore and a renamed Crookshanks. Didn't help that he had
a bird too. More effective for the owls. 
 
Yes, some days, I scare myself.
 
Ok, back to studying.
 
-Meg (why must everything be more interesting than biochemistry?)
 
 
Read the untold story of life as a first year medical student at:
As The Scalpel Turns - http://www.livejournal.com/users/megd/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From catlady at wicca.net  Sat May 17 22:21:42 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 22:21:42 -0000
Subject: Beavering away
In-Reply-To: <006701c31c7f$5eda6060$ea8386cb@price>
Message-ID: <ba6clm+j3v1@eGroups.com>

Happy Birthday to Megan aka Rhiannon333. 

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tabouli" <tabouli at u...> 
wrote:

<< Reminds me of the tendency for given names to start out as male and 
then become almost exclusively female after too many girls had been 
given them (e.g. Meredith).  >>

Beverly (thus staying on the thread's subject), Shirly, Clare ... 

<< Many a gender politics message to be gleaned, no doubt.  Curious.  
I occasionally wonder if Cameron (Diaz) and Michael (Princess, of 
Kent) might eventually go the same way... >>

Is there a Princess with the given name Michael? Not Michal (the 
latter is a Bibical name, the wife of David who laughed at him when 
he danced before the Ark, and I've never met anyone who knows how to 
pronounce it)? Not knowing anything about these people, I would have 
assumed that "Princess Michael of Kent" was the wife of Prince 
Michael of Kent, the same way Harriet Vane's married name was Lady 
Peter Wimsey, called Lady Peter.




From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Sat May 17 23:07:30 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 16:07:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Beavering away
In-Reply-To: <ba6clm+j3v1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030517230730.69271.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Rita wrote:
> Is there a Princess with the given name
> Michael? Not Michal (the 
> latter is a Bibical name, the wife of David who
> laughed at him when 
> he danced before the Ark, and I've never met
> anyone who knows how to 
> pronounce it)? Not knowing anything about these
> people, I would have 
> assumed that "Princess Michael of Kent" was the
> wife of Prince 
> Michael of Kent, the same way Harriet Vane's
> married name was Lady 
> Peter Wimsey, called Lady Peter.


Lynn:

Don't forget Michael Lerned, she of The Waltons
and Nurse fame.

=====
For the international news that's fit to print
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cnnworldnewsq-a

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com



From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Sat May 17 23:17:05 2003
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 09:17:05 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Beavering away
In-Reply-To: <ba6clm+j3v1@eGroups.com>
References: <006701c31c7f$5eda6060$ea8386cb@price>
Message-ID: <3EC74F91.30293.243F98@localhost>

On 17 May 2003 at 22:21, Catlady (Rita Prince Winston) wrote:

> Is there a Princess with the given name Michael? Not Michal (the 
> latter is a Bibical name, the wife of David who laughed at him when 
> he danced before the Ark, and I've never met anyone who knows how to 
> pronounce it)? Not knowing anything about these people, I would have 
> assumed that "Princess Michael of Kent" was the wife of Prince 
> Michael of Kent, the same way Harriet Vane's married name was Lady 
> Peter Wimsey, called Lady Peter.

And you would be correct.

Princess Michael of Kent's real name is Marie-Christine von Reibnitz. She is a Princess 
by marriage to the Blood Royal and hence takes her husbands title. Basically a women 
marrying a British Prince is only a Princess in her own right *if* she was a Princess to 
start with. Princess Michael (IIRC) was a Baroness (German?). As Prince Michael of 
Kent has no other titles, she couldn't become 'Duchess of...' or 'Countess of...' as other 
women marrying into the Royal Family have.



Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200

                       "Almighty Ruler of the all;
                 Whose power extends to great and small;
                 Who guides the stars with steadfast law;
                   Whose least creation fills with awe;
                     Oh grant thy mercy and thy grace;
                     To those who venture into space."




From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Sun May 18 12:18:21 2003
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 12:18:21 -0000
Subject: Beavering away
In-Reply-To: <3EC74F91.30293.243F98@localhost>
Message-ID: <ba7tmd+pv0n@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter, "Shaun Hately" wrote:
[snip]

> Basically a women marrying a British Prince is only a Princess in
> her own right *if* she was a Princess to start with. Princess
> Michael (IIRC) was a Baroness (German?). As Prince Michael of Kent
> has no other titles, she couldn't become 'Duchess of...'
> or 'Countess of...' as other women marrying into the Royal Family
> have.

To the extent that Princess Michael was a baroness in her own right 
prior to the marriage, she surely still is.  The title may be 
Austrian - her parents married in Vienna (her mother being a "former 
countess", according to royal.gov.uk).

Few princes have other titles than that of Prince until they marry - 
certainly Prince Andrew was not created Duke of York (and some other 
titles), nor was Prince Edward created Earl of Wessex, until they 
married.  Prince Edward, incidentally, will eventually succeed to the 
title Duke of Edinburgh, which is why he was not created a duke upon 
his marriage.  In the case of Prince Michael of Kent, he is the 
younger brother of Prince Edward, Duke of Kent, both being sons of 
the late Prince George, Duke of Kent (fourth son of King George V) 
and the late Princess Marina, daughter of Prince Nicholas of Greece - 
it seems that grandchildren of sovereigns, while princes and 
princesses in their own right, are not created dukes upon marriage as 
are the children of sovereigns.

Best regards
Christian Stub?




From rhiannon333 at hotmail.com  Sun May 18 13:57:44 2003
From: rhiannon333 at hotmail.com (rhiannon333)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 13:57:44 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, Megan!
In-Reply-To: <20030517154542.39598.qmail@web41107.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ba83go+kgsp@eGroups.com>

Dear Birthday Elf -

Thank you for the cake and good wishes and your willingness to keep
slaving for day after day of endless partying! Who would have known
there'd be so many birthdays at once. 

Sorry to have been so long absent from discussion, although I have
been able to 
peek in at the fun from time to time. Due to some mobility problems I
will be 
more housebound than usual in the coming months, so to look on the
bright side, perhaps I will get more time for fun online. I know that
OotP will 
cause a huge swell in list traffic, so I hope to get back into things
by then. 
Meanwhile, thanks again for the party -

Megan


--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Sheryll Townsend
<s_ings at y...> 
wrote:
> *quickly picks up the mess from the last party and
> straightens the decorations*
> 
> Okay, cake is on it's way. There's lots of food for
> everyone, so step right in and join the festivities.
> 
> Today's birthday honouree is Megan aka Rhiannon333.
> Birthday owls can be sent care of this list or
> directly to rhiannon333 at h...
> 
> May your day be magical and filled with fun.
> 
> Happy Birthay, Megan!
> 
> Sheryll the Birthday Elf
> 
> =====
> "No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too
seriously." - 
Dave Barry
> 
> 
_____________________________________________________________
_________ 
> Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca




From Chasewildstar at attbi.com  Sun May 18 14:09:11 2003
From: Chasewildstar at attbi.com (Chase Wildstar)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 10:09:11 -0400
Subject: Saturdays adventure, finding HP ringers for my cell phone, NOT an advertisement
Message-ID: <00d201c31d47$0ec9b710$9c01f50c@mac>

Hello all, just an update on Saturdays adventures here in muggle land. -
This is not an advertiesment, but some info to help anyone who needs it.

As you know, We Die-Hard Harry Potter fans just love to make everthing we
own have a HP feel to it.
Well, Yesterday I upgraded my Cell phone. I use Sprint PCS and had a samsung
sph-N200 phone. I dropped it accidently into a huge tank of Oil at work and
it shorted out and got ruined. So I upgraded to the Samsung Sph N400 Visiual
phone. You know, the one that lets you surf the web, view pictures, program
ringers, etc.

Well, one of the selling featurs was that I could get my own speicalized
ringer and naturaly I wanted an HP theme ringer -Hedwig's theme. But where
to get it?
 First I went to Sprint PCS website - their Ringers, wallpapers and screen
savers for the phone was rather limited and they charge a user fee for a set
amount of time to use their stuff! Why do that when I can get it for free
from other web sites?
 I found a good Hedwig's theme Midi file.. but they wanted me to pay for it,
by making a "donation". I right clicked on the link, and told it to save the
file.. LO and behold I got the file! Free!

Then while surfing using google dot com, I found a website called
www.pcspix.com that allowes you to upload and down load up to 10 items per
month FREE. Thats right.. Be them Ringers, or screen savers for your phone
or what ever, it was FREE. I uploaded my hedwig's theme ringer, got on my
phone, surfed the web, downloaded it from pcspix, and wala! I now have a
Harry Potter Ringer on my cell phone.
I also downloaded a StarTrek Commuinicator "chirp", the sound you hear when
ever Kirk Snaps open
his commuicator. I have that set for some friends when they call..

Most of the ringers out there are simple midi files that are rather bland in
sound quality. Remindes me of the old ANSI-Graphic music we used to use when
dos 3.1 was out on the old 8088 XT computer systems. Some of these ringers,
don't even sound like the song they are supposed to be.

Now im looking for some graphics/screen savers that will work with it.. Due
to the size and stuff, It will be difficult. But I am sure I will find
something. I would like to find a castle or something like that for the
screen.
Under the display, I have the words, "The Wallow",  Kind of like "The
Burrow".

If anyone wants a copy of the MIDI file, let me know and I will email it
directly to you, or I can put it in the file section of this group. Then
upload it to a website, and then use your phone to download it, save it and
Wala, you have a good HarryPotter ringer for your cell phone..

Oh, I no longer post to HP4GU main group.. if someone wants to, they can
forward this to the group.
Yes, im sending this to a few other groups incase someone else is havig the
same problems I had, finding a good HP ringer for their Cell phone.






For those who collect HP stuff, and want to know where to ask, or share info
with:
Join HP collectables, to discuss collecting various HP items.
Subscribe:  HPcollectables-subscribe at yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe:  HPcollectables-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
List owner:  HPcollectables-owner at yahoogroups.com




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun May 18 15:02:17 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 18 May 2003 15:02:17 -0000
Subject: Reminder - Weekly Chat 
Message-ID: <1053270137.170.54417.m11@yahoogroups.com>


We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Weekly Chat 

Date: Sunday, May 18, 2003 
Time: 11:00AM - 7:00PM CDT (GMT-05:00) 

Hi everyone! 

Don't forget, chat happens today, 11 am Pacific, 2 pm Eastern, 7
pm UK time. *Chat times are not changing for Daylight
Saving/Summer Time.*  Chat generally goes on for about 5 hours,
but can last as long as people want it to last.

Go into any Yahoo chat room and type /join HP:1 
For further info, see the Humongous BigFile, section 3.3.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/hbfile.html#33

Hope to see you there! 

 





From cristina_angelo at yahoo.com  Sun May 18 15:39:26 2003
From: cristina_angelo at yahoo.com (Cristina Rebelo Angelo)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 17:39:26 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Saturdays adventure, finding HP ringers for my cell phone, NOT an advertisement
In-Reply-To: <00d201c31d47$0ec9b710$9c01f50c@mac>
Message-ID: <BFECIODBAEHNLMBKGOGJMECJCGAA.cristina_angelo@yahoo.com>

  -----Message d'origine-----
  De : Chase Wildstar [mailto:Chasewildstar at attbi.com]

   and wala! I now have a
  Harry Potter Ringer on my cell phone.

  [Cristina Rebelo Angelo]

  this is really completely offtopic... but I don't have a HP ring, I have
Aqua's Barbie Girl... I've gone back to common cell phones, Nokia 3410,
(bored of having great phones that don't go with usual ringtones you get on
the phone, and I'm really useless at composing...) - but I do have a
customized screensaver!

  It goes "MUGGLISHLY", which I believe I've invented - most likely not, but
I've never read it anywhere, so... And it wobbles around my cell screen,
quite funnily, actually...

  Now, if I could just find a HP clip-on cover I'd be really happy... I do
have to put down my books and drag myself to Paris to check the march? aux
puces...


  **************************
  Cristina Rebelo ?ngelo

  Any attached file not mentioned in the body of the message may be a virus;
if present, delete it for the sake of your computer, and inform the sender.
Thank you.

  "Quand on n'a que l'amour/ Pour tracer un chemin/ Et forcer le destin/ A
chaque carrefour
  Quand on n'a que l'amour/ Pour parler aux canons/ Et rien qu'une chanson/
Pour coinvancre un tambour
  Alors sans avoir rien/ Que la force d'aimer/ Nous aurons dans nos mains/
Amis le monde entier"
  J.Brel 1956

  ICQ 106.255.886
  HPGCv1 a31 e++ x+ -- z+++ A27 Rhp HPa S+++ Mo HaP++ HG++ RW++ AD++ RH+++
VK& NhN& SB& DM--- O++ F sfD


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Mon May 19 00:49:01 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 00:49:01 -0000
Subject: I Need Me A Bald Man!
Message-ID: <ba99lt+gfvk@eGroups.com>

Am I the only woman who thinks the proliferation of bald men is a 
fabulous development?

It seems that young, handsome men are shaving their heads in great 
numbers.  It seems to look great on most anyone.  Charles Barkley, 
Michael Jordan -- the list is quite long.  And for guys who are 
losing their hair, bald is probably a lot better than a comb-over.

How much work is it to stay bald, anyway?  Do you have to shave your 
head every morning?  How do you avoid "head stubble?"

Cindy -- who has always wondered about these things




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon May 19 01:45:31 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 01:45:31 -0000
Subject: Beavering away
In-Reply-To: <ba6clm+j3v1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ba9cvr+erj8@eGroups.com>

Tabouli:

> << Reminds me of the tendency for given names to start out as male 
and 
> then become almost exclusively female after too many girls had 
been 
> given them (e.g. Meredith).  >>

Catlady:

> Beverly (thus staying on the thread's subject), Shirly, Clare ... 

When was Clare (or Claire) a male name?  St Frances' female 
associate Clare lived in the thirteenth century.

Of course in some cultures there is much more interchangeability of 
names between genders, and Clare is AFAIK French meaning 'bright' 
or 'clear'.

Evelyn is another example of the tendency Tabouli refers to.  Jesse 
may be another, though that may just be confusion with Jessie, 
presumed diminutive of Jessica.

Then there's that business whereby Jonathan is dying out, to be 
replaced by Johnathon or Jonathon, which sounds like a fund raising 
event or an elementary particle to me:  "Get a sponsor now!  This 
year's Jon-a-thon will be the biggest ever!"; "Physicists at Los 
Alamos yesterday announced the discovery of the Jonathon, a particle 
with zero Charm, Spin 25, and Credibility -1."

Bless me, what *do* they teach them in those schools

David




From Chasewildstar at attbi.com  Mon May 19 01:46:58 2003
From: Chasewildstar at attbi.com (Chase Wildstar)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 21:46:58 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] I Need Me A Bald Man!
References: <ba99lt+gfvk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <003101c31da8$891b8820$9c01f50c@mac>

I dunno, but having a crome dome, sure saves money on hair cuts and worries
about appearances, as far as "grooming" goes.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cindy C." <cindysphynx at comcast.net>
To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2003 8:49 PM
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] I Need Me A Bald Man!


> Am I the only woman who thinks the proliferation of bald men is a
> fabulous development?
>
> It seems that young, handsome men are shaving their heads in great
> numbers.  It seems to look great on most anyone.  Charles Barkley,
> Michael Jordan -- the list is quite long.  And for guys who are
> losing their hair, bald is probably a lot better than a comb-over.
>
> How much work is it to stay bald, anyway?  Do you have to shave your
> head every morning?  How do you avoid "head stubble?"
>
> Cindy -- who has always wondered about these things
>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material
from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- 
MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
> Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon May 19 01:59:41 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 01:59:41 -0000
Subject: A bet (was Happy Birthday, Megan!)
In-Reply-To: <ba83go+kgsp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ba9dqd+ts3u@eGroups.com>

Megan wrote:

> Due to some mobility problems I
> will be 
> more housebound than usual in the coming months, so to look on the
> bright side, perhaps I will get more time for fun online.

I'm sorry to hear about your mobility problems - I hope you overcome 
them.

 I know that
> OotP will 
> cause a huge swell in list traffic, so I hope to get back into 
things
> by then. 

I think there is great scope for 'fun online' in the meantime: what 
do you all think will be the size of the 'huge swell'.  Here are a 
few things to guess at:

Number of posts the day the list opens after closing for OOP (my 
guess: 95)
Number of posts the week after (750)
Biggest-posting day after OOP (Thursday 10 July 2003)
Number of posts that day (230)
Biggest-posting week after OOP, Sunday to Saturday (the third week)
Number of posts that week (1050)
Longest post in the six months after OOP (105K)
Date of longest post (Nov 25 2003)
Max number of posts by one person in the month after OOP (97)
Number of active posters in the month after OOP (342)

Any other guesses?  Any other statistics to guess at?  Prizes for 
the best guesses?  Who should pay?

and... no gratuitous posting just to win your bet!

David




From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Mon May 19 02:22:04 2003
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 02:22:04 -0000
Subject: I Need Me A Bald Man!
In-Reply-To: <ba99lt+gfvk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ba9f4c+g6nk@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." 
<cindysphynx at c...> wrote:
> Am I the only woman who thinks the proliferation of bald men is a 
> fabulous development?
> 
> It seems that young, handsome men are shaving their heads in great 
> numbers.  It seems to look great on most anyone.  Charles Barkley, 
> Michael Jordan -- the list is quite long.  And for guys who are 
> losing their hair, bald is probably a lot better than a comb-over.
> 
> How much work is it to stay bald, anyway?  Do you have to shave 
your 
> head every morning?  How do you avoid "head stubble?"
> 
> Cindy -- who has always wondered about these things

Cindy,

I've always wondered about that, too.  Rrroooowwwrr, I have to say 
Captain Picard is the sexiest trek captain, though.  And he went 
bald at 21 - he said it took a while to get used to, but once he did 
he found that he could play a variety of roles with different wigs 
on.  Pretty cool, eh?

Alora




From jmmears at comcast.net  Mon May 19 02:44:45 2003
From: jmmears at comcast.net (serenadust)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 02:44:45 -0000
Subject: A bet (was Happy Birthday, Megan!)
In-Reply-To: <ba9dqd+ts3u@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ba9get+pnav@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "David" <dfrankiswork at n...> 
wrote:

> I think there is great scope for 'fun online' in the meantime: 
what 
> do you all think will be the size of the 'huge swell'.  Here are a 
> few things to guess at:
> 
> Number of posts the day the list opens after closing for OOP (my 
> guess: 95)
> Number of posts the week after (750)
> Biggest-posting day after OOP (Thursday 10 July 2003)
> Number of posts that day (230)
> Biggest-posting week after OOP, Sunday to Saturday (the third week)
> Number of posts that week (1050)
> Longest post in the six months after OOP (105K)
> Date of longest post (Nov 25 2003)
> Max number of posts by one person in the month after OOP (97)
> Number of active posters in the month after OOP (342)
> 
> Any other guesses?  Any other statistics to guess at?  Prizes for 
> the best guesses?  Who should pay?
> 
> and... no gratuitous posting just to win your bet!


I assume you're talking about the main HPfGU list, and not a 
combination of the main list and OT, right?

How about Max Number of List members by the end of July 2003 (8800)

How do you determine the number of "active" posters at any given 
time?  I've always been curious as to what percentage of total 
members of the main list are actually posting.

My Guesses:
Number of posts the day the list re-opens after OOP (175)
Number of posts the week after (1000)
Biggest posting day after OOP (July 6, 2003)

Can't begin to guess the rest of the questions, until I figure out 
how to count "active" posters.

Jo Serenadust




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Mon May 19 05:19:40 2003
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 05:19:40 -0000
Subject: I Need Me A Bald Man!
In-Reply-To: <ba99lt+gfvk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <ba9phc+nnub@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." <cindysphynx at c...>
wrote:
> Am I the only woman who thinks the proliferation of bald men is a 
> fabulous development?

Cindy, this is SOOOOO weird that you brought this up!!

My husband is going to be shaving his head Wednesday 
night.

Now, this is a man who is not going naturally bald, nor 
do I think it will be a particularly sexy look for him.  
He is also not really looking forward to the process.

Why is he doing it?

Because it is my idea for his punishment.

;)

Yes, on May 1st, Allie had an appointment for a check 
up with the pediatrician.  He forgot to come home in 
time for us to make it, and he even made it impossible 
for me to call him to remind him (by accident?  who 
knows?) by playing some shoot-'em-up lan game with his 
work buddy while trash-talking to him on the phone.  
Yes, on the phone.

So I was reallly really realllllllllllllllllllly mad, 
and when he asked me what I wanted him to do to make 
up for it, I asked him to shave his head.

He immediately found a reason to delay the order, as 
his students are taking their final exams this week, 
and he doesn't want them to be staring at his head 
when they should be staring at their papers... and then 
blame him for making them fail their already difficult 
chemistry exams.  So, I agreed that he could shave 
Wednesday night after he comes home from his final final 
exam.  This is, however, before graduation (which he has 
to go to) on Friday.  This is also before his department 
social, where he will have to publicly (as per our 
agreement) state WHY he is now bald.  It's also before 
we go out for my birthday dinner Thursday night, but I'm 
willing to endure a little personal embarrassment for 
the pleasure of seeing him squirm in the company of my 
father and sister at a fancy restaurant.  And!  
Immediately before and after his "operation", we are 
going to take pictures and then send them to his family, 
accompanied by an explanation to his mother and sisters 
(and grandmother and uncles and father) of the details.

So, while my original plan isn't going down exactly as 
I'd hoped, it's going better than I thought it was when 
all discussion had come to a standstill.

I will post before and after pictures here, too, for all 
who want to see. ;)

-Jen P., woman scorned.

PS.  But yes, Cindy, in general I applaud the rise in 
the bald men population.  Most men with shaved heads 
look terribly sexy with bald heads...

But I don't think Chris will be one of them.






From glorificus21 at bigpond.com  Mon May 19 05:23:53 2003
From: glorificus21 at bigpond.com (glory)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 15:23:53 +1000
Subject: Fic
Message-ID: <01cb01c31dc6$d71c6bc0$6637a4cb@yourog0e5epvsj>

Hello all,


To anyone who is interested in Harry/Draco slash fiction, I have just posted a new piece that I have just completed. If you're interested, go to:

www.livejournal.com/users/fickwalker

I'd love to hear any feedback or criticism.


Regards,
Glory


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Mon May 19 10:24:52 2003
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 20:24:52 +1000
Subject: Hair-razing!
Message-ID: <009b01c31df0$e8a21a00$232832d2@price>

Cindy:
> Am I the only woman who thinks the proliferation of bald men is a 
> fabulous development?

(the salad's jaw drops, aghast, from between its long dark crowning curtains)

Cindy!  What is this hair-razing blasphemy against the most glorious substance produced by the human body?  Wash out your follicles with soap and water!  ;o)  And what's these other women *agreeing* with her sentiments?  Is mine to be the only voice raised in protest?  Tsk tsk tsk.

(rummages about for "Hair Here" banner and flourishes it defiantly)

Hair is wonderful!  It should be allowed to grow and flourish, in all its many textures and colours!  I was beside myself with horror when my own hair started falling out in handfuls when I was in China (it did rally once I got home, but it's never been as thick since).  

While I grudgingly concede that men have the right to treat the output of their follicles however they choose, I, for one, am anguished every time a fashion for head stubble comes in for men, and am no fan of the current trend towards chest waxing.  Why should only women-fanciers be privy to the joys of long hair?  I don't necessarily mean waist length (though I did have a short relationship with a man with waist length caramel hair, which was just gorgeous once I persuaded him to condition it), just long enough to be tactile and lovely.  I've heard the "balding with dignity" line many a time, but I still greatly prefer half a head of well-cared for hair than a head like a kiwifruit.

I'm rarely a fan of very short hair on women either.  Sure, it can look good with the right style on the right woman, but, hardline hair fan that I am, I think most women look better with at least a bit of floppy fringe (bangs) or face framing.  For example, I think Halle Berry looks *much* better now she's grown out that cropped look.  (Ringlets!  Wonderful things!  Why would anyone who could grow them hack them off?  Sigh)

Surely there are some other hardline hair fans out there?  All you Draco fans, would he really appeal so much without his silvery locks?  How about a shaven Sirius, or a hairless Hermione?

Tabouli.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From gandharvika at hotmail.com  Mon May 19 11:11:14 2003
From: gandharvika at hotmail.com (Gail Bohacek)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 11:11:14 +0000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Hair-razing!
Message-ID: <Law8-F64NjykPbf619V000237e7@hotmail.com>

Cindy Wrote:

>I Need Me A Bald Man!

Gail (Me) Replies:

Y'know, Cindy, you just crack me up! :D

Tabouli Sez:

>Hair is wonderful!  It should be allowed to grow and flourish, in all its 
>many textures and colours!  I was beside myself with horror when my own 
>hair started falling out in handfuls when I was in China (it did rally once 
>I got home, but it's never been as thick since).

Gail:

Man!  The same thing happened to my hair after I came back from India.  By 
the fistful!  Ticked me off royally.  I was really, really afraid I was 
going to go bald.  Somebody gave me some vitamins which are specifically for 
hair and the problem stopped but, just like yours, it's not as thick as it 
used to be.  What do you think it was, the water?

Oh, and I concur with you on the long hair deal, though my own is styled 
short.  It's more practical for my lifestyle.

Now, if you want to talk facial hair on men you've got my whole hearted 
attention.   Yow!


-Gail B...who wonders what Tabouli's stance is on women shaving their legs 
and underarms  ;)

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Mon May 19 11:48:51 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 07:48:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: I Need Me A Bald Man!
In-Reply-To: <ba9phc+nnub@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030519114851.18062.qmail@web41102.mail.yahoo.com>

 --- Jennifer Piersol <jenP_97 at yahoo.com> wrote: > ---
> My husband is going to be shaving his head Wednesday
> 
> night.
> 
> Now, this is a man who is not going naturally bald,
> nor 
> do I think it will be a particularly sexy look for
> him.  
> He is also not really looking forward to the
> process.
> 
> Why is he doing it?
> 
> Because it is my idea for his punishment.
> 
<snip explanation, which I already knew :)>

> I will post before and after pictures here, too, for
> all 
> who want to see. ;)

Yup, am waiting for pictures.
> 
> -Jen P., woman scorned.
> 
> PS.  But yes, Cindy, in general I applaud the rise
> in 
> the bald men population.  Most men with shaved heads
> 
> look terribly sexy with bald heads...
> 
> But I don't think Chris will be one of them.

Let us be the judge of that once you have the photos.
I'm sure you could even put it to a vote or something.
:)

Am a huge fan of bald men, being married to one. Andy
had been losing his hair for quite sometime and
finally decided a couple years ago that shaving it off
was a good idea. I wasn't keen on the idea at first,
but it turns out he looks very good with no hair at
all. 

As for upkeep, he does have to shave it fairly
frequently, something he does while he's in the
shower. This explains why his showers take longer than
mine. :)

Sheryll

=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Mon May 19 12:59:08 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 12:59:08 -0000
Subject: I Need Me A Bald Man!
In-Reply-To: <20030519114851.18062.qmail@web41102.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <baakes+4ka5@eGroups.com>

Jen wrote:

>My husband is going to be shaving his head Wednesday night.

I agree with Sheryll!  We'll get back to you on how he looks.  
Indeed, I propose a poll once the pics are posted so that your 
spousal unit will know exactly where he stands.  Make sure you 
include a photo with hair as well, if you don't mind.

In fact, perhaps all of us with men in our lives should post pics of 
our spousal units/significant others for HPfGU Ultimate Makeover 
Suggestions.  ;-)

My own husband was blessed with seriously great hair.  At 43, he has 
a thick, full head of black hair with lots of grey sprinkled 
throughout.  Very nice.  He'd look silly bald, I think.  

Sheryll confessed on Andy's behalf:

> As for upkeep, he does have to shave it fairly
> frequently, something he does while he's in the
> shower. This explains why his showers take longer than
> mine. :)


Oh, good!  I have so many questions.

How often must one shave one's head?  

How long does it take?

Does he ever cut himself or miss a spot?

Does the blade have to be really sharp like when guys shave their 
faces, or can they use a 3-year old dull one like I can use on my 
legs?

Has he tried an electric razor?  How did it go?

Assuming Andy is white, how does he avoid having that "Prisoner of 
War" look where the black stubble shows up (I like to call it "Male 
Reverse-Pattern Baldness")?

Tabouli shrieked:

>Hair is wonderful! It should be allowed to grow and flourish, in 
>all its many textures and colours! 

Oh, I agree!  Hair is great stuff.  It's just that some people are 
born with bad hair.  Jane Pauley is a perfect example -- no matter 
how many top hairdressers worked on her, nothing could be done for 
her, really.

But surely you agree that full baldness on a guy is way better than 
a comb-over?  Surely we can agree on *that,* right?

Besides, I think there's a rule that a guy can only be bald if he is 
in great physical shape.  That is the rule, is it not?  That 
explains why bald guys are just so darn yummy.  ;-)

Tabouli:

>[I] am no fan of the current trend towards chest waxing. 

Ooooh!  Men wax their chests now?  I've been off the market for a 
while now, so I had no idea.  

Or are you talking about women?  ;-)


>Why should only women-fanciers be privy to the joys of long
>hair? 

Oh, men with extra-long, well-groomed hair are also gorgeous.  It's 
just that too many of them don't take care of it properly.  Having 
pebbles and small twigs in the hair is a fashion "don't" in my book.

>(Ringlets! Wonderful things! Why would anyone
>who could grow them hack them off? Sigh)


My daughters are blessed with natural ringlets -- the only thing 
their hair requires to form fabulous ringlets is water -- and they 
*hate* their hair.  They pine for straight hair.  Fortunately for 
them, they can have straight hair anytime they like -- all they need 
is a hot blow dryer.  And if they use a flat-iron, then they get 
these luxurious waves.  

That is just not fair.  You're supposed to be stuck with one or the 
other -- straight or curly.  No switching sides with the flip of a 
switch.  

Cindy -- who asked her husband about the ins and outs of bald heads 
on men, and he didn't know much either




From cristina_angelo at yahoo.com  Mon May 19 13:17:24 2003
From: cristina_angelo at yahoo.com (Cristina Rebelo Angelo)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 15:17:24 +0200
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: I Need Me A Bald Man!
In-Reply-To: <baakes+4ka5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <BFECIODBAEHNLMBKGOGJGEDHCGAA.cristina_angelo@yahoo.com>


  -----Message d'origine-----
  De : Cindy C. [mailto:cindysphynx at comcast.net]

  Oh, good!  I have so many questions.

  How often must one shave one's head?

  How long does it take?

  Does he ever cut himself or miss a spot?

  Does the blade have to be really sharp like when guys shave their
  faces, or can they use a 3-year old dull one like I can use on my
  legs?

  Has he tried an electric razor?  How did it go?

  Assuming Andy is white, how does he avoid having that "Prisoner of
  War" look where the black stubble shows up (I like to call it "Male
  Reverse-Pattern Baldness")?


  [Cristina Rebelo Angelo]
  Did you guys in the US have that Gillette add where Agassi shaves his
head? It was cooool! And it sent a message that you have to have a really
good razor... 3 blade... oh well... But he didn't miss a spot :) Actually,
that's the exact blade my s-o uses for his beard. I sometimes tease him he
should do like Agassi (when he was young he also had long hair, though not
quite as Andr?...)

  One question I've always wanted an answer to is: can you wax your head?
Does it hurt much? For how long are you free? Which kind of wax?

  This is as fun as the time I found a panty-hose man fan forum on Delphi :)
Great tips! Man do bring such a lovely new fresh point of view...


  **************************
  Cristina Rebelo ?ngelo

  Any attached file not mentioned in the body of the message may be a virus;
if present, delete it for the sake of your computer, and inform the sender.
Thank you.

  "Quand on n'a que l'amour/ Pour tracer un chemin/ Et forcer le destin/ A
chaque carrefour
  Quand on n'a que l'amour/ Pour parler aux canons/ Et rien qu'une chanson/
Pour coinvancre un tambour
  Alors sans avoir rien/ Que la force d'aimer/ Nous aurons dans nos mains/
Amis le monde entier"
  J.Brel 1956

  ICQ 106.255.886
  HPGCv1 a31 e++ x+ -- z+++ A27 Rhp HPa S+++ Mo HaP++ HG++ RW++ AD++ RH+++
VK& NhN& SB& DM--- O++ F sfD


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon May 19 16:33:25 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 16:33:25 -0000
Subject: I Need Me A Bald Man!
In-Reply-To: <ba99lt+gfvk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bab10l+74dn@eGroups.com>

Cindy wrote:
> Am I the only woman who thinks the proliferation of bald men is a 
> fabulous development?

I don't know about what women think but...
> 
> It seems that young, handsome men are shaving their heads in great 
> numbers

and so cease to be handsome, and look either 30 years older or 30 
years younger

> It seems to look great on most anyone.  

Hm.  (Names of unknowns snipped)

> And for guys who are 
> losing their hair, bald is probably a lot better than a comb-over.

Fair enough.  A comb-over is a triumph of hope over experience.

> How much work is it to stay bald, anyway?  Do you have to shave 
your 
> head every morning?

Never having tried, I can't answer this, though the option is open 
to women, too, so a little experimentation might tell you, Cindy.

> How do you avoid "head stubble?"

Well, in some cases I have seen, the answer seems to be 'not very 
well'.

David




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon May 19 16:41:23 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 16:41:23 -0000
Subject: A bet (was Happy Birthday, Megan!)
In-Reply-To: <ba9get+pnav@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bab1fj+rqk6@eGroups.com>

>Jo asked:

> I assume you're talking about the main HPfGU list, and not a 
> combination of the main list and OT, right?

Yes, that's correct, though all the same questions apply here, too.
> 
> How about Max Number of List members by the end of July 2003 (8800)
> 
> How do you determine the number of "active" posters at any given 
> time?  I've always been curious as to what percentage of total 
> members of the main list are actually posting.

At a given point in time, of course, there's no answer, since even 
our most prolific posters probably spend more time not posting than 
posting.

All I meant was 'how many people will post to the main list in the 
given period?', though.  It would be quite hard, though not 
impossible, to count them.

David




From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Mon May 19 21:26:38 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 21:26:38 -0000
Subject: A bet 
In-Reply-To: <ba9dqd+ts3u@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <babi6e+4oob@eGroups.com>

Oh, hey!  I love a good wager!

Wouldn't it be fun to start a database or something and then see who 
can come the closest on their guesses?

Anyway . . . 


Number of posts the day the list opens after closing for OOP (my 
guess: 128)
Number of posts the week after (888)
Biggest-posting day after OOP (Thursday 3 July 2003)
Number of posts that day (212)
Biggest-posting week after OOP, Sunday to Saturday (the second week)
Number of posts that week (1206)
Longest post in the six months after OOP (85K)
Date of longest post (Sept. 9, 2003)
Max number of posts by one person in the month after OOP (38)
Number of active posters in the month after OOP (463)

Cindy




From siskiou at earthlink.net  Mon May 19 19:26:38 2003
From: siskiou at earthlink.net (Susanne)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 12:26:38 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Hair-razing!
In-Reply-To: <Law8-F64NjykPbf619V000237e7@hotmail.com>
References: <Law8-F64NjykPbf619V000237e7@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <150143057317.20030519122638@earthlink.net>



Hi,

Monday, May 19, 2003, 4:11:14 AM, gandharvika at hotmail.com wrote:

>>I was beside myself with horror when
>>my own 
>>hair started falling out in handfuls when I was in China (it did
>>rally once 
>>I got home, but it's never been as thick since).

> Gail:

> Man!  The same thing happened to my hair after I came back from
> India.  By 
> the fistful! 

I guess I was lucky when I went to both those countries and
a few more.

Not a problem with hair falling out, even though a head lice
treatment almost killed me along with the little "guests".

I'm not much into the shaved look, and fortunately, neither
is my husband.

He has wonderful, thick, wavy red hair and no sign of any loss at
44.
His dad still has all his hair at age 88, so I think he
might escape the bald look for a while to come ;)

-- 
Best regards,
 Susanne                           mailto:siskiou at earthlink.net

Visit our pet rabbits: http://home.earthlink.net/~siskiou/




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Mon May 19 23:39:40 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 19:39:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: I Need Me A Bald Man!
In-Reply-To: <baakes+4ka5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030519233940.93281.qmail@web41102.mail.yahoo.com>

 --- "Cindy C." <cindysphynx at comcast.net> wrote: > 
> 

Cindy asked the burning questions: 
> 
> How often must one shave one's head?  
> 
Andy does it every couple days. Not sure if this is
out of necessity or habit, but I never see him with
stubble on his head, so I'm guessing it's necessity.
Note that shaving his head also releases him from the
necessity of wearing a hairnet at work (he's a cook).
He says it should be done everyday, but doesn't always
do so.

> How long does it take?
> 
Honestly, I'm not sure. I've never asked. I'd take a
guess and say no more than 10 minutes. Revision to
that, Andy just walked in and said no more than 5
minutes, start to finish.

> Does he ever cut himself or miss a spot?
> 
Nope. Have never seen cuts or missed spots. He does
get the occasional ingrown hair, which he points out
to me by saying he has a tumour growing on the back of
his head and asking me to perform the necessary
surgery. Yeah, he has a warped sense of humour, too.
:)

> Does the blade have to be really sharp like when
> guys shave their 
> faces, or can they use a 3-year old dull one like I
> can use on my 
> legs?
> 
He never uses old dull ones like I do. I suspect a
sharp one is a necessity, lest he end up with nicks
and cuts.

> Has he tried an electric razor?  How did it go?
> 
He used to use an electric razor, but only for the
shortest possible buzz cut. For a bald head, he only
uses a regular razor. He won't even use an electric
razor on his face, says it doesn't shave close enough.

> Assuming Andy is white, how does he avoid having
> that "Prisoner of 
> War" look where the black stubble shows up (I like
> to call it "Male 
> Reverse-Pattern Baldness")?
> 
Interesting question, and one I'd never considered. I
guess it's because he shaves often enough that I don't
ever see any black stubble (and yes, he's white). I
doubt I would really notice, as he hasn't got any hair
on top anyway. He figures that enough has fallen out
on it's own that he may as well remove the rest. He
says I should shoot him if he ever grows it back and
tries the dreaded 'comb-over'. I will happily oblige
if that day ever comes. :-D

> Besides, I think there's a rule that a guy can only
> be bald if he is 
> in great physical shape.  That is the rule, is it
> not?  That 
> explains why bald guys are just so darn yummy.  ;-)
> 
Well, Andy isn't in perfect shape and looks darn good
bald, so that can't be the only rule. Even the best
physical shape won't compensate if someone has a head
that just looks wrong bald, IMO. Andy has a perfectly
shaped head, which is probably why bald suits him so
well. 

Sheryll


=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From s_ings at yahoo.com  Tue May 20 00:15:02 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 20:15:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Two More Birthdays!
Message-ID: <20030520001502.64130.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com>

*puts the finishing touches on the decorations and
wonders if 4 tables loaded with food will be enough*

Am sneaking in just in time with the birthday
greetings today.

Today's birthday honourees are Michelle and Fiona.
Birthday owls can be sent care of this list or
directly to Fiona at fionap19 at yahoo.co.uk and to
Michelle at michelleapostolides at yahoo.co.uk

I hope both of you had days filled with fun, magic and
everything HP.

Happy Birthday, Michelle!
Happy Birthday, Fiona!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf

=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From wedgeaholic at icqmail.com  Tue May 20 03:46:48 2003
From: wedgeaholic at icqmail.com (cathubodva_raven)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 03:46:48 -0000
Subject: I Need Me A Bald Man!
Message-ID: <bac8f8+10b7f@eGroups.com>

>Tabouli Sez:
>
>>Hair is wonderful!  It should be allowed to grow and flourish, in 
>>all its many textures and colours!  I was beside myself with horror 
>>when my own hair started falling out in handfuls when I was in 
>>China (it did rally once I got home, but it's never been as thick 
>>since).
>
>Gail:
>
>Man!  The same thing happened to my hair after I came back from 
>India.  By the fistful!  Ticked me off royally.  I was really, 
>really afraid I was going to go bald.  Somebody gave me some 
>vitamins which are specifically for hair and the problem stopped 
>but, just like yours, it's not as thick as it used to be.  What do 
>you think it was, the water?

Hmmm ? I know it's an old wives' tale, but have you considered 
shaving your hair off?  That's *supposed* to make it grow back much 
thicker.  (I know it works a treat on my legs)  :-D

Of course, I've wanted to shave my head ever since I saw Sigourney 
Weaver in Aliens III.  I would have done it, too, but my husband 
threatened to leave me ? which is ironic, because *he* shaves his 
head.  (And he looks much more handsome without hair than with ? but 
that might just be my personal preference.)

Cathubodva
(who thinks that, when it comes down to it, sexy is how a man carries 
himself, and not what he has/doesn't have growing out of his scalp)




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Tue May 20 12:50:40 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 12:50:40 -0000
Subject: Scholastic's marketing campaign
Message-ID: <bad8b0+erkt@eGroups.com>

If you go to The Leaky Cauldron (www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/)

or direct to

www.scholastic.com/aboutscholastic/news/press_05192003.htm

You can see details of Scholastic's marketing campaign.  For this 
campaign to break even, it needs to increase sales by, I estimate, 
some hundreds of thousands, depending on the return to Scholastic on 
each additional copy sold.  (Do the retailers contribute to the 
campaign, too?  If so, are they partly vying against one another?)

Does this stack up?  You'd think by now that HP was so well known - 
whether loved or detested - that a campaign isn't going to make that 
much difference.  Those 3 pensioners in North Dakota just aren't 
going to bring in that much revenue.

Anyone here know how they do the sums to decide what to spend on 
something like this?

Or is it a question of middle-management insecurity: "if we *don't* 
have a campaign that outdoes the last one, then customers will 
reason that the book can't be much good and, what's more, if sales 
flop, we can't be blamed by the bosses for not having tried."

David




From erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com  Tue May 20 13:56:32 2003
From: erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com (erisedstraeh2002)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 13:56:32 -0000
Subject: Scholastic's marketing campaign
In-Reply-To: <bad8b0+erkt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <badc6g+id78@eGroups.com>

David wrote:

> You can see details of Scholastic's marketing campaign.  For this 
> campaign to break even, it needs to increase sales by, I estimate, 
> some hundreds of thousands, depending on the return to Scholastic 
> on each additional copy sold.  

Now me:

I am so glad you brought this up, because I had the same reaction 
when I saw that article.  I just can't comprehend why Scholastic 
thinks it needs to spend millions of dollars to promote a book that's 
already been pre-ordered by millions and is on the top of the charts 
even before it's released.

Perhaps if I had gone for an MBA rather than an MPA, I would 
understand better...

~Phyllis




From tabouli at unite.com.au  Tue May 20 14:34:01 2003
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 00:34:01 +1000
Subject: The perfectly shaped head
Message-ID: <001201c31edc$dcad7720$a85732d2@price>

Sheryll:
> Even the best physical shape won't compensate if someone has a head
that just looks wrong bald, IMO. Andy has a perfectly shaped head, which is probably why bald suits him so well. <

Ah, yes.  That other well-worn justification for razing one's locks... the perfectly shaped head!  Transfixed as I am by the glory of hair (or anguished as I am by its deliberate absence), I have never managed to establish what this paragon of skull shapes actually *is*.  Can one of you baldness admirers enlighten me?

David (quoting Cindy)
> > It seems that young, handsome men are shaving their heads in great 
> > numbers
>
>and so cease to be handsome, and look either 30 years older or 30 
>years younger

Heh.  Much as I agree with David's sentiments, I am distracted by his curiously precise definition of youth.  I am vague on the age at which babyhood baldness gives way to luxuriant locks, but if I assume this happens around one to two, David's definition of "young" would appear to be fixed at no younger than 30-32 years of age (or perhaps down to 29 years three months, at a pinch).  Most interesting.

30 is an odd sort of an age.  Depending on what end of the human lifespan it's looked at, it can appear either verging on senility (she says gloomily, recalling her teenage prejudices) or ridiculously young to be worried about getting old (by people over 40).  Trouble is, of course, you can only approach 30 from one direction.  Just when you've got thoroughly used to thinking of yourself at "young", you hit 30 and wonder if you still can...

Tabouli.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From rvotaw at i-55.com  Tue May 20 14:30:44 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (rvotaw at i-55.com)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:30:44 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Scholastic's marketing campaign
Message-ID: <29632839.1053441044606.JavaMail.root@webmail.i-55.com>


Phyllis:> <BR>
> I am so glad you brought this up, because I had the same reaction <BR>
> when I saw that article. I just can't comprehend why Scholastic <BR>
> thinks it needs to spend millions of dollars to promote a book that's <BR>
> already been pre-ordered by millions and is on the top of the charts <BR>
> even before it's released.<BR>

This was my initial thought as well, then I thought about it.  Most of the 
promotions are set to take place *after* the book is released, with the 
exception of the countdowns and midnight parties.  I believe all four of the 
major league baseball promotions are after June 21st, even as late as July 
12th.  The billboards are set to go up on July 1st.  I think what they're doing 
is figuring on all of us who are counting the days running straight out to buy 
the book.  Then they're going to target the stragglers who are still thinking 
about it.  Which is what most of the promotion seems to be geared towards.  
Considering by the time billboards appear on July 1st most of us will have read 
OotP 2-3 times.  Of course, we may have worn the first copy out and need 
another. :)

Richelle

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Tue May 20 15:44:02 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 15:44:02 -0000
Subject: The perfectly shaped head & Pushing Thirty
In-Reply-To: <001201c31edc$dcad7720$a85732d2@price>
Message-ID: <badig2+b6tn@eGroups.com>

Tabouli wondered:

> Ah, yes.  That other well-worn justification for razing one's 
>locks... the perfectly shaped head!  Transfixed as I am by the 
>glory of hair (or anguished as I am by its deliberate absence), I 
>have never managed to establish what this paragon of skull shapes 
>actually *is*.  Can one of you baldness admirers enlighten me?

Oh, head perfection does exist!  Anyone who saw the movie "Drum 
Line" can attest to the fact that the head of the drum corp, whoever 
that guy was, had a perfect bald head.

Let's see.  Let's talk about the skin first.  There must be no 
scarring from old wounds, no freckles, and no huge purple Gorbachov 
splotch.  A light sheen of sweat is intriguing, provided this is 
mopped periodically with a clean handkerchief, which I would 
cheerfully launder for him if he would only ask.  Trickles of sweat, 
however, are a turn-off, so the timing of the mopping is important.

Then there's the shape.  The head absolutely *must* be round.  
Eggheads need not apply.  Oblong heads also do not work.  There 
should be no noticeable divots or indentations.  Bulges are non-
starters.  It is OK if the head has a very slight crown above the 
forehead, but in no case should there be a Klingon ridge.  

It's like obscenity, Tabouli.  You know it when you see it.

A perfect bald head is something one longs to touch.  Just once.  
Maybe by accident.  On mass transit, perhaps when one is reaching 
for the wire to alert the driver to stop.  So far, I have never had 
the opportunity.  I imagine it would be warm and smooth, like a 
baby's bottom.  ;-)

Look at it this way, Tabouli.  Bald guys never have greasy hair.  Or 
silly haircuts.  Or *dandruff.*  ;-)

>Just when you've got thoroughly used to thinking of yourself 
>at "young", you hit 30 and wonder if you still can...

<heavy, labored sigh due to advanced age>

Oh, Tabouli.  You're *30* and you're starting to wonder if you can 
feel young?  

Let me tell you something, missy.  Thirty is *nothing.*  I decline 
to state my actual age in this particular forum, but let's just say 
that I am likely in the second half of my life.  ::shudder::  And I 
can tell you from personal experience that 30 is not old.  

Your body doesn't even start to fall apart at 30.  Unless you've 
lived an exceptionally hard life, you still look pretty good at 30. 
You can climb into a convertible and no one snickers.  At 30, you're 
still willing to wear shoes that hurt.  You haven't yet asked your 
doctor if your inexplicable weight gain is the result of a "slow 
metabolism."  

Nah.  Talk to me in about 10 years, more or less, OK?  ;-)

Cindy -- wondering who our oldest member is and wondering if that 
person is willing to step forward




From charisjulia at hotmail.com  Tue May 20 16:25:19 2003
From: charisjulia at hotmail.com (charisjulia)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 16:25:19 -0000
Subject: Hair-razing!
In-Reply-To: <001201c31edc$dcad7720$a85732d2@price>
Message-ID: <badktf+j9bv@eGroups.com>

Sheryll wrote:
> Even the best physical shape won't compensate if someone has a head
that just looks wrong bald, IMO. Andy has a perfectly shaped head, 
which is
probably why bald suits him so well. <

Which puzzled Tabouli:

>Ah, yes. That other well-worn justification for razing one's 
locks... the
>perfectly shaped head! Transfixed as I am by the glory of hair (or 
anguished
>as I am by its deliberate absence), I have never managed to 
establish what this
>paragon of skull shapes actually *is*. Can one of you baldness 
admirers
>enlighten me?

Well, try looking at it the other way round: think how * awful* 
somebody with the wrong shape of scalp can look when bald. Think of 
Ronaldo. Ronaldo satisfies Cindy's criteria no prob: world class 
footballer, `nuff said. But * man* does he ever need to do something 
about that head. See, it's the balance between the front and the 
back: a bald head and monkey jaws simply don't mix.


I will however give him one thing: he's * definitely* better off 
without the triangle look. 
 

But on to the subject of hair itself rather than the lack of it. Oh, 
yes, I do think Tabouli is unquestionably right. Hair is glorious 
stuff. I am absolutely, definitely, 100 percent behind hair. Hair is 
lovely. Grow hair! 


See, the marvellous thing about hair is quite simply its variety. 
There is * such* a wide range of different hair types! Coiffures 
innumerable! 

<takes in deep breath>: 

Long, short, thick, thin, straight, curly, wavy, with a fringe, 
without a fringe, bushy, sleek, shiny, rough, layered, black, blond, 
brown, red, auburn, loose, in pony-tails (low? high?), plaits, pig-
tail, bunches, buns, half'n'half, dread-locks, spiked, gelled, 
puffed, rumpled, wind-blown, permed, waved, dyed, with highlights, 
with different coloured streaks, with wispy little locks poking out 
of tubbling--down buns in that way that's so much in fashion now, the 
pudding bowl cut, you name it.  . .  And then of course you can 
mix'n'match: blond long straight hair, thick red curly hair, short 
blue spiked hair. . .. It's amazing really. 


I've got a friend who has one of the reddest heads of hair ever 
possessed by man. In fact he looks exactly how I'd imagine Ron aged 
c.20. It's unbelievable. It's also incredibly practical: enter an 
amphitheatre throbbing with 300 people? Searching for your friends in 
all the multitudes of students before you? No problem! Just look for 
the guy with the red head. A veritable beacon. And it looks *great*.


Then there's another friend of mine who has curls. *Real* curls that 
is, not just hair--mousse--created ones. Corkscrew curls. The kind 
that won't even straighten out when it's wet. And oooooooooooooh, 
they are just soooooooo beautiful. They're thick and shiny and raven- 
black and simply *compel* you to run your hand through them! 


Charis Julia, who thinks it is * so* unfair that most of the guys in 
her life have better hair than she does. It's like eyelashes. Have 
you ever noticed that men have longer and curlier eyelashes than 
women? It's true.  . .





From joym999 at aol.com  Tue May 20 16:39:32 2003
From: joym999 at aol.com (joywitch_m_curmudgeon)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 16:39:32 -0000
Subject: Baldness, ugh, was Re: The perfectly shaped head & Pushing Thirty
In-Reply-To: <badig2+b6tn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <badlo4+tvrg@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." <cindysphynx at c...> 
wrote:

an ode to the beauty of the bald head, including:

> Then there's the shape.  The head absolutely *must* be round.  
> Eggheads need not apply.  Oblong heads also do not work.  There 
> should be no noticeable divots or indentations.  Bulges are non-
> starters.  It is OK if the head has a very slight crown above the 
> forehead, but in no case should there be a Klingon ridge.  

No Klingon ridge? But that would be the only interesting part!  Nope, 
I just don't get it.  Cindy, you just haven't convinced me.  I'm with 
Tabouli (that young whippersnapper) here.  Hair is luxurious, soft 
even when it's rough, silky even when it's coarse and sexy as hell.  
When I am in, ahem, an intimate setting, I want to be running my 
fingers through something that feels as nice as petting a cat does, 
not something that feels like I'm making egg salad or peeling a kiwi.

I don't think I've ever found a bald man attractive, with one glaring 
exception, which is, of course, Patrick Stewart (sigh).  But Our 
Favorite Starship Captain is sexy *despite* his baldness, not because 
of it.  Which reminds me of a conversation I once had with my ex, 
while watching STTNG, back in the days before it went off the air and 
our relationship declined (hmmm...I wonder if there's a connection 
there?)

Joy:  Honey, I have to tell you something.  I love you, but if 
Patrick Stewart came along and asked me to marry him, I'd do it in a 
second -- and I'm not even attracted to bald men.
Joy's No-Good Ex:  Honey, if Patrick Stewart came along and asked 
*me* to marry him, I'd do it in a second -- and I'm not even 
attracted to *men*.

Although, has anyone noticed this trend of bald women?  In the last 
few years, I have seen a number of women who have shaved their 
heads.  There was even an article about it in the newspaper, IIRC.  
It is surprisingly pretty, sometimes.  Once you get over the initial 
shock of a woman without hair, there is something quite nice about 
the contrast between the lack of hair and the soft features of her 
face.  Go figure.

--Joywitch, contradictory




From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Tue May 20 18:33:36 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 18:33:36 -0000
Subject: Baldness, ugh, was Re: The perfectly shaped head & Pushing Thirty
In-Reply-To: <badlo4+tvrg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <badse0+jiao@eGroups.com>

Joywitch wrote:

>Nope, I just don't get it.  Cindy, you just haven't convinced me.  

OK, here's the thing.  I have nothing against hair, really.  Hair is 
*fine.*  But bald is *different* and not easy to pull off.  It's a 
statement, see?

Actually, I'm having trouble coming up with something that makes as 
much of a statement on a woman.  Something that is risky, different, 
and that your average JoAnne can't pull off.


> I don't think I've ever found a bald man attractive, with one 
>glaring exception, which is, of course, Patrick Stewart (sigh).  

No, no, no!  You guys just aren't there yet.  Patrick Stewart isn't 
the exception.  But I will grant you that you have to be careful.  
All Bald Men Are Not Created Equal.  

See, there's the cadaver look.  These are the guys who look OK 
despite the lack of hair.  They're usually older.  I'd put John 
Malkovich in this category.

There's the skin-head version.  Ugh.

There's the linebacker or wrestler version, which always comes with 
a very thick neck.

And there's the *sensuous* version.  Guys who would Otherwise Be 
Ordinary.  Let's see.  Patrick Stuart.  Samuel L. Jackson.  Sean 
Connery.  Bruce Willis.

Cindy -- who is not about to shave her head, even though Joy would 
probably like to see it




From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Tue May 20 17:30:24 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 10:30:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Scholastic's marketing campaign
In-Reply-To: <29632839.1053441044606.JavaMail.root@webmail.i-55.com>
Message-ID: <20030520173025.32024.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com>

Richelle, in part:
> I think what they're doing is
> figuring on all of us who are
> counting the days running
> straight out to buy the book. 
> Then they're going to target
> the stragglers who are still
> thinking about it.  Which is
> what most of the promotion
> seems to be geared towards.  
> Considering by the time
> billboards appear on July 1st
> most of us will have read 
> OotP 2-3 times.

That sounds very plausible to 
me...that and the fact that it 
may be years before Scholastic 
will be campaigning for this 
series again (when Year 6 comes 
out) so certainly they would 
want to make the most of THIS 
blessed event in terms of sales 
and publicity.  Gotta make up 
for the 'lean years' to come, 
so to speak.

Petra
a
n  :)

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From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Tue May 20 19:21:07 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 12:21:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Scholastic's marketing campaign
In-Reply-To: <bad8b0+erkt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030520192107.66394.qmail@web21209.mail.yahoo.com>


--- David wrote:

> Does this stack up?  You'd think by now that HP
> was so well known - 
> whether loved or detested - that a campaign
> isn't going to make that 
> much difference.  Those 3 pensioners in North
> Dakota just aren't 
> going to bring in that much revenue.


Lynn:

It stacks up quite nicely.  HP may be well known
but that doesn't necessarily translate into been
read.  I think Scholastic are going for people
like I used to be - an adult who's heard the hype
but isn't interested in reading a children's
book.  If I hadn't seen PS on DVD and thought it
might be nice to see how it compared to the book,
plus the fact that my old boss told me I should
get the books for my daughter so she could have
them when she's a bit older, I never would have
considered buying the book.  Also, if I hadn't
ended up starting with PoA and GoF before going
back and reading PS and CoS, and instead had
started by reading PS, I never would have bought
another book in the series.  PS was a cute book
but nothing that would make me want to read more.
 If I did for some reason read CoS as well, I
definitely wouldn't have continued as I just
don't like that book.

This is a great investment if Scholastic gets new
adults and the theme for the promotion appears to
be geared for adults, sort of an "It's not just
for kids anymore" kind of thing.  They get the
adult to buy this book, it intrigues them and
they end up going and buying the other four
books.  Perhaps they also get hooked enough to
convince some of their friends to read it.  There
are four adults right now who never read the
series until I convinced them they should and
that's also four more OoP books that would never
have been bought if I hadn't.

The first time I really paid any attention to the
HP series is when I read the hype for GoF but the
promotion was still so geared towards kids that
it just didn't interest me.  With a promotion
geared towards adults, you'd probably be
surprised to find just how many extra copies of
OoP would be bought, in addition to people who
will then go buy the rest of the series.  I also
wouldn't be surprised if Warner Bros. was kicking
in some money as well as it could lead to people
going out and buying the PS and CoS on DVD.  That
means more people who would potentially be
customers for the next movie.  I know people
(adults) who have seen the two movies who have
never opened one of the books.

Personally, I think the hype will grow, not wane
with the next two books as Scholastic continues
to mine undertapped resources.

Lynn

=====
For the international news that's fit to print
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cnnworldnewsq-a

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From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Tue May 20 19:33:48 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 12:33:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] (was) What not to say in Scotland
In-Reply-To: <20030520190909.54797.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030520193348.48408.qmail@web21207.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Petra Pan wrote:
> Could a person
> whose parents are both
> Caucasian face prejudice if s/he is
> half-Scottish and half-Enlgish?  

Lynn:

I can tell you what I've experienced so far
because I have a bilingual daughter who is
half-American and half-Dutch.  I don't know how
much of an indication it will be though.  We've
been posted to England in July and we're in the
process of finding a school for our daughter. 
Since the public schools are considered to not be
to the same standards of the Dutch schools
(actually it ends up being a problem with class
size), she is to attend a private school.  One
problem, the private schools in that area will no
longer accept bilingual children because they
tend to bring down the test levels due to the
language barrier.  This is done without testing
to see if the child speaks and comprehends
English in accordance with her grade level.  It's
just an automatic disqualification.  So, we've
had to go out of the area to find a school who
will accept her.

Lynn

=====
For the international news that's fit to print
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cnnworldnewsq-a

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From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Tue May 20 20:40:06 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 13:40:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: The State of Bigotry in JKR's Homeland (was) What not to say in Scotland
In-Reply-To: <20030516193330.62630.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030520204006.12471.qmail@web21110.mail.yahoo.com>

[Trigger-Happy here, offering my 
apologies to those not on webview 
for the premature posting of the 
rough draft of the following]

Marley:
> Not that I approve of this
> terrible racism that the 
> Scots have against the English,
> but I do find myself shouting at 
> the TV when American programmes
> call Great Britan 'England'. I 
> think I better shut up now,
> before I offend too many people.

Speaking of racism...

I am curious to hear from the 
Brits of current manifestations 
in the UK of prejudice (which 
of course includes but is not 
limited to racism) or, for a 
lack of better word, anti-
prejudice.  While it's likely 
that JKR writes the HP books 
with the entire globe in mind, 
I am curious to know what 
'village happenings' closer to 
home inform her understanding 
and view of prejudice.

For example, I am curious to 
know what are the prevailing 
(and even not so prevailing 
but nevertheless existing) 
attitudes towards real life 
'mudbloods,' which I am going 
to define here as people whose 
parents are of different genetic 
pools.

Perhaps this would be a good 
place to start: how different 
would those pools have to be to 
trigger bigotry?  Would any child 
of Fred and Angelina?  Would any 
child of Harry and Cho?

Or can bigotry go even deeper?  
Could a person whose parents are 
both Caucasian face prejudice if 
s/he is half-Scottish and half-
English?  I ask because I wonder 
if JKR had concerns about her 
half-English and half-Portuguese 
daughter facing bigotry.  Hmm...
this may be a non-issue even 
before her mother became a 
celebrated author if Jessica can 
pass herself off as Scottish (when 
in Scotland) and English (when in 
England) in appearance.

Y'know, I recall at least half 
of my conversations about HP/JKR 
in Edinburgh to involve a 
reminder from a Scot that JKR is 
not really Scottish.  <g>  

Which intrigued me to no end since 
without the support she received 
in the country she adopted, JKR 
today may still be a struggling 
single mum; she may be English in 
origin, but Scotland's nurturing 
(ex. Scottish Art Council) certainly 
has helped make JKR's success with 
her HP series possible.

I rather thought that there's 
something to be said for that...

Petra
a
n  :)

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From Ali at zymurgy.org  Tue May 20 22:11:16 2003
From: Ali at zymurgy.org (Ali)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 22:11:16 -0000
Subject: The State of Bigotry in JKR's Homeland (was) What not to say in Scotland
In-Reply-To: <20030520204006.12471.qmail@web21110.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bae964+9e65@eGroups.com>

Petra Pan wrote:-
 
>>> I am curious to hear from the Brits of current manifestations 
 in the UK of prejudice (which of course includes but is not 
 limited to racism) or, for a lack of better word, anti-
 prejudice.  While it's likely that JKR writes the HP books 
 with the entire globe in mind, I am curious to know what 
 'village happenings' closer to home inform her understanding 
 and view of prejudice.<<<

Prejudice is absolutely rampant, but it is also (in general) hidden. 
As part of my HR course, I recently had to do alot of work 
on "diversity". The statistics make shocking reading. Whatever our 
laws and our intentions, prejudice is rife in British society. That 
does not mean though that children of mixed parentage or those of a 
different religion would be discriminated against, just that it is 
more likely. Achievement levels vary massively between different 
racial groups, and cultural forces are at work as well.

I know of several mixed-marriages, and am not aware of any overt 
prejudice against their kids or against them. So, from that point of 
view, I don't think that JKR was considering her daughter's 
background in writing the Potterverse. In terms of the 
Scotttish/English thing, one of my friends is Scottish, married to 
an Englishman. When her kids are in Scotland they know to call 
themselves Scottish, but other than that, they would call themselves 
English, or perhaps more likely British - they currently live in 
Egypt! The Scottish (Welsh, Irish) v. English thing is perhaps 
naturally, much more of an issue in Scotland (Wales, Ireland) than 
it is in England.

Having said that prejudice is rife, there are of course areas where 
different cultures mingle harmoniously - I live in such an area. 
This might be an exaggeration, but I have been told that there are 
over 40 first languages spoken in my daughters' school - not bad for 
a school of c. 350 kids.

Ali





From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Wed May 21 00:05:25 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 17:05:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: The State of Bigotry in JKR's Homeland
In-Reply-To: <bae964+9e65@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030521000525.13746.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com>

Ali:
> Prejudice is absolutely rampant,
> but it is also (in general) hidden. 

Yup, that's been my experience here 
in California too.

Y'know, on the one hand, public 
displays of prejudice appall me.  
But OTOH, driving the bigots 
underground only hides such 
tendencies, which is surely more 
insidious.

The question of how a society can 
nudge bigots into shedding 
prejudices without triggering the 
defense mechanism and the digging 
in of heels has no easy answers.

Ali:
<snip>
> Having said that prejudice is rife,
> there are of course areas where 
> different cultures mingle
> harmoniously - I live in such an
> area. This might be an exaggeration,
> but I have been told that there are 
> over 40 first languages spoken in
> my daughters' school - not bad for 
> a school of c. 350 kids.

Lynn:
<snip>
> the private schools in that area
> will no longer accept bilingual
> children because they tend to
> bring down the test levels due
> to the language barrier.  This
> is done without testing to see
> if the child speaks and comprehends
> English in accordance with her
> grade level. It's just an automatic
> disqualification.  So, we've had to
> go out of the area to find a school
> who will accept her.

Hmm...I don't suppose, Lynn, you're 
moving to an area of England within
commuting distance of where Ali's 
daughters go to school?  <g>

The cynic in me also wonders if the 
rule for automatic disqualification 
at those schools in the name of 
higher test levels is a cover for 
xenophobia.  After all, if the 
schools are truly concerned with 
their test levels being brought down, 
shouldn't they conduct *actual* 
investigations into a potential 
pupil's actual skill levels?

Insidious, no?

Petra, 'unacceptably' bilingual
a
n  :)

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From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed May 21 01:13:28 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 01:13:28 -0000
Subject: The perfectly shaped head
In-Reply-To: <badig2+b6tn@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <baejrp+52rf@eGroups.com>

Cindy wrote:

> A perfect bald head is something one longs to touch.  Just once.  
> Maybe by accident.  On mass transit, perhaps when one is reaching 
> for the wire to alert the driver to stop.  So far, I have never 
had 
> the opportunity.  I imagine it would be warm and smooth, like a 
> baby's bottom.  ;-)

What astonishing mimesis!

...

Hermione looked longingly at Harry's newly shaven head.  It looked 
so smooth, so inviting, like a baby's bottom, and she began to 
wonder how she could brush it, as if by accident.  In a flash, 
Professor Flitwick's words came to her out of her first year at 
Hogwarts: "Swish and flick".  If she could just get a little closer, 
then on the backswing, surely she could manage a gentle graze.

'Wingar-'

'Ouch!  Hermione, what d'you think you're doing!  That got me right 
on the scar!  It really hurt!  Are you trying to be the next Dark 
Lord or something?'

Mortified, Hermione said hurriedly, 'I'm sorry, I, erm, just wanted 
to try to levitate-'

Just then, Ron turned.  'Why, hello, Cho', he said.  Bright red, 
Harry whirled round to face an empty room, his hair flopping over 
the scar on his scar.

Ron sniggered. 'Looks like that shaving charm wasn't strong enough, 
then.'

...

David




From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Wed May 21 01:53:58 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 01:53:58 -0000
Subject: FF:  The perfectly shaped head
In-Reply-To: <baejrp+52rf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <baem7m+6hmj@eGroups.com>

David wrote:
 
> Hermione looked longingly at Harry's newly shaven head.  It looked 
> so smooth, so inviting, like a baby's bottom, and she began to 
> wonder how she could brush it, as if by accident.  In a flash, 
> Professor Flitwick's words came to her out of her first year at 
> Hogwarts: "Swish and flick".  If she could just get a little 
closer, 
> then on the backswing, surely she could manage a gentle graze.
> 
> 'Wingar-'
> 
> 'Ouch!  Hermione, what d'you think you're doing!  That got me 
right 
> on the scar!  It really hurt!  Are you trying to be the next Dark 
> Lord or something?'
> 
> Mortified, Hermione said hurriedly, 'I'm sorry, I, erm, just 
wanted 
> to try to levitate-'
> 
> Just then, Ron turned.  'Why, hello, Cho', he said.  Bright red, 
> Harry whirled round to face an empty room, his hair flopping over 
> the scar on his scar.
> 
> Ron sniggered. 'Looks like that shaving charm wasn't strong 
enough, 
> then.'


"Not strong enough?" Harry said bitterly.  "I'd say it was plenty 
strong.  That's the last time I let Hagrid give me a haircut.  Good 
grief!  Now my head swings wildly between 'bald as an egg' 
to 'flowing locks of miracle hair.'  It was cool at first, but now 
it is just *annoying.*"

"Harry, all you have to do is use this here Polyjuice Potion," 
Hermione said quickly, blowing dust off of the enormous book in her 
lap:  "Hair Today, Gone Tomorrow."  Just take a bit of your hair and 
polyjuice yourself into yourself."

"Wouldn't a toupee be easier?" Ron asked with concern.  "Harry could 
wind up un-splinching himself or something."

"Look," Harry sighed, "at this point, I'll try anything.  What are 
the ingredients for that potion again?"  He craned his neck to peer 
over Hermione's shoulder, who pulled away.

"Don't you worry, Harry.  Just leave everything to me," Hermione 
said with an evil grin.

. . . . 

Cindy




From anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net  Wed May 21 04:15:17 2003
From: anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net (Anne)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 04:15:17 -0000
Subject: Hair-razing!
In-Reply-To: <009b01c31df0$e8a21a00$232832d2@price>
Message-ID: <baeugl+s8r7@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tabouli" <tabouli at u...> 
wrote:
> Cindy:
> > Am I the only woman who thinks the proliferation of bald men is a 
> > fabulous development?
> 
> (the salad's jaw drops, aghast, from between its long dark crowning 
curtains)
> 
> Cindy!  What is this hair-razing blasphemy against the most 
glorious substance produced by the human body?  Wash out your 
follicles with soap and water!  ;o)  And what's these other women 
*agreeing* with her sentiments?  Is mine to be the only voice raised 
in protest?  Tsk tsk tsk.
> 
> (rummages about for "Hair Here" banner and flourishes it defiantly)
> 
> Hair is wonderful!  It should be allowed to grow and flourish, in 
all its many textures and colours!  I was beside myself with horror 
when my own hair started falling out in handfuls when I was in China 
(it did rally once I got home, but it's never been as thick since).  
> 
Gimme a head with hair
Long beautiful hair
Shinin', gleamin', streamin' flaxen waxen
Gimme it down to there
Shoulder length or longer
Here, baby, there, mama,
Everywhere, daddy daddy
HAIRRRRRR
Flowin', blowing'
Long as I can grow it, my HAIR

> 
> Surely there are some other hardline hair fans out there?  All you 
Draco fans, would he really appeal so much without his silvery 
locks?  How about a shaven Sirius, or a hairless Hermione?
> 
> Tabouli.

Ewww, ewww and ewww. And Harry without his BLACK, STICKING OUT ALL 
OVER THE PLACE Hair?? Just wouldn't be Harry. His hair is part of his 
charm (and could be part of his magic). Hair does seem to be very 
important in the Potterverse; JKR certainly seems to care about it, 
as she usually manages to describe people's hair in interesting 
detail.

Anne U
(Lucius without his mane? Hermione without her bushy hair? Fleur 
without her shimmering wall of hair... etc. etc. Nope)





From tabouli at unite.com.au  Wed May 21 15:39:20 2003
From: tabouli at unite.com.au (Tabouli)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 01:39:20 +1000
Subject: Of curls and culture
Message-ID: <001801c31faf$26669220$7b5132d2@price>

(the salad bravely attempts to plait together three disparate threads...)

Charis Julia:
> I've got a friend who has one of the reddest heads of hair ever 
possessed by man.<

Red hair and corkscrew curls (misty sigh).  Glorious, both of them.  That said, both red hair and corkscrew curls are assets which the bearer almost *inevitably* loathes, at least as a child.

Take the man with the most beautiful head of hair I have yet witnessed.  Oh, but it was beautiful.  Beautiful!  Thick straight silky deep red hair you could drown in.  Not a hint of baldness in his mid-thirties despite a thoroughly disreputable lifestyle.  He claimed that despite rumours about the prevalence of redheads in Scotland (where he grew up), it immediately marked him out at school, earned him countless "Gingers" and "Carrots" and sundry other vegetable goods (er... Radish?  Persimmon?  Pumpkin?).  He *hated* it.  Until, of course, he reached his mid-teens and discovered that women thought it was gorgeous, whereupon he became very vain about it and started grooming and preening it carefully.  Well worth the effort, I say.

The same man, always one for Scottish Pride, declared Scotland a comparatively racism-free zone.  He claimed that there are indeed many immigrants in Scotland, but that they're tolerated until they've developed an Scottish accent and then embraced as their own.  I was sceptical, but he was adamant.  "We Scots know who our enemies are, and they're not the immigrants from Pakistan or Kenya or Hong Kong.  They're the *English*."

Any Scottish comments?

Petra Pan:
> Y'know, on the one hand, public 
displays of prejudice appall me.  
But OTOH, driving the bigots 
underground only hides such 
tendencies, which is surely more 
insidious.<
>
> The question of how a society can 
nudge bigots into shedding 
prejudices without triggering the 
defense mechanism and the digging 
in of heels has no easy answers<

Aha and oho!  This is both my profession (cross-cultural training) and the very topic of my detested but blessedly finished postgrad degree.  I'm inclined to agree that gagging bigots, while cosmetically effective in the short term at reducing overt prejudice (which is good in itself), just creates silent resentful bigots.  I'd rather reform people than gag them.  Not an easy task, as you say, but not triggering the defence mechanism is, in my experience, absolutely *CRUCIAL*.

The problem with a lot of campaigning against prejudice is not the message, or the intention.  Both are (usually) great.  The problem is with the *marketing*.  I've seen so many depressing "cultural diversity" sessions where the presenter gets up and starts a sermon telling people that they are Prejudiced Without Knowing It by virtue of being members of the majority culture, and illustrates this point with ten case studies of hidden prejudice caused by people like them which caused terrible suffering, and then hits them with a long list of ambiguous rules and terms which must be followed to the letter lest the wrath of the Discrimination Act fall upon their heads.

 I mean, sure, the well-meaning converted may listen earnestly and earnestly do their best.  But how many prejudiced political correctness-rejecting cynics are you going to convert like this?  Start by attacking them and their culture and the behaviour they consider reasonable and normal, attempt to blackmail them with emotional appeals and then threaten them with litigation if they fail to follow rules they consider confusing and intrusive and pointless... honestly!  If anything, this will *increase* their prejudice!

Sigh.

Sometimes, though, the answers *can* be quite easy.  Take the workshop I ran today, for example.  In it, I briefly mentioned the way English speakers use indirect phrasing and complex grammar to phrase things politely (e.g. "I was wondering whether you could possibly lend me a book?" versus "I want your book."), and explained that most East Asian languages do not do this.  Instead, the politeness is often built into the pronouns and verbs, and the phrasing is quite direct and simple.  Hence international students from some Asian countries speaking English as a second language can come across as very abrupt, because they are translating directly from their own, direct language and losing their "politeness coding", without knowing how to use the complex politeness coding used in English (with its tricky tenses and question forms and so on).

In the tea break, a woman from the workshop came rushing up to me and told me that just telling her that made her view her interactions with students in a completely different light.  She'd always disliked dealing with Asian students, because she found them abrupt and rude and demanding.  Had often snapped back that they should show a little more courtesy, etc.  Now, understanding that this was probably a language issue not a courtesy, she felt guilty about her prejudices and vowed to be more tolerant in future (I suggested that she also try to model appropriate English for her students where possible and, if they were coming across really badly, to take them aside if she had time and explain how to ask for things politely and effectively in an English speaking country.  Or send 'em to my workshops on Australian culture for new international students so I could teach 'em :D).

OK, so perhaps not a great triumph over prejudice, but a nudge, I feel.

Tabouli.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed May 21 16:01:12 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:01:12 -0000
Subject: The Big Read
Message-ID: <bag7s8+2kcf@eGroups.com>

See www.bbc.co.uk/arts/bigread/

As you can see, Britain's favourite 100 books were announced (though 
not the order - that will happen in the autumn) last weekend.

Note that authors did not have to be British (e.g. John Steinbeck) 
or even write in English (e.g. Fyodor Dostoyevsky).

Only one author made the list 5 times: Charles Dickens.  Terry 
Pratchett scored 4.5, as he only has half of Good Omens, the only 
collaboration on the list.  Pratchett fans will be surprised at 
presence of The Colour of Magic, but not Mort, Guards! Guards!, or 
Night Watch.

Roald Dahl, Jacqueline Wilson and JK Rowling got four each - all of 
them regarded as children's authors by the media, though I have no 
ideal of the proportion of children in the vote.  (I suspect 
Pratchett, too, is regarded as suspiciously juvenile by those with 
more degrees than sense.)

Some anomalies: Pullman appeared only once, for His Dark Materials, 
but if that's one book, why isn't Harry Potter?  Winnie the Pooh is 
there but not The House At Pooh Corner - is that a reflection of 
relative popularity, or are the two subsumed in one?  I assume The 
Lion, The Witch And The Wardrobe means just that, not the entire 
Narnia series.

Whether one can take seriously a list that includes a work by 
Jeffrey Archer I leave to your judgement.

My own vote, Kim, by Rudyard Kipling, didn't make the grade, nor did 
any of his other works.

David




From selene at earthlink.net  Wed May 21 16:24:01 2003
From: selene at earthlink.net (Susan Fox-Davis)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 09:24:01 -0700
Subject: Baldness, ugh, was Re: The perfectly shaped head & Pushing Thirty
Message-ID: <3ECBA821.6472E241@earthlink.net>

Joywitch, contradictorily wrote:

>I don't think I've ever found a bald man attractive, with one glaring
>exception, which is, of course, Patrick Stewart (sigh).  But Our
>Favorite Starship Captain is sexy *despite* his baldness, not because
>of it.

I was going to mention him if nobody else did!  I was given to
understand by a Trekker dermatologist that his Rogaine business
plummeted when Jean-Luc made it acceptable, even sexy to bare the scalp.

Joywitch again:

>Although, has anyone noticed this trend of bald women?  In the last
>few years, I have seen a number of women who have shaved their
>heads.  There was even an article about it in the newspaper, IIRC.
>It is surprisingly pretty, sometimes.  Once you get over the initial
>shock of a woman without hair, there is something quite nice about
>the contrast between the lack of hair and the soft features of her
>face.  Go figure.

I might consider it for comfort and ease of care but for one niggling
detail:  I'd resemble not so much Sigourney Weaver as Donald Pleasance.
Round punkin head, round punkin body, I need all the crowning glory I
can get!  Fortunately, so far [crossing fingers] I've only got a bit of
"distinguished sideburns" and not much more silver threads amongst the
chestnut.

Susan Fox-Davis
selene at earthlink.net




From slstich at hotmail.com  Wed May 21 17:14:32 2003
From: slstich at hotmail.com (shanna)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 12:14:32 -0500
Subject: Book reccomendations anyone?
Message-ID: <Law11-OE40vOSQeSOzN00018a1d@hotmail.com>

    Hi all!
After finally completing this semester of college, I'm searching for things
to read while I wait for book5 to come out.  I'm interested in pretty much
everything, particularly Fantasy and Horror.  What are you all reading right
now?  Just curious.  I'll talk to you all later.
Shanna



From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Wed May 21 17:18:18 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 10:18:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Of curls and culture
In-Reply-To: <001801c31faf$26669220$7b5132d2@price>
Message-ID: <20030521171818.5760.qmail@web21210.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Tabouli wrote:
> Sometimes, though, the answers *can* be quite
> easy.  Take the workshop I ran today, for
> example.  In it, I briefly mentioned the way
> English speakers use indirect phrasing and
> complex grammar to phrase things politely (e.g.
> "I was wondering whether you could possibly
> lend me a book?" versus "I want your book."),
> and explained that most East Asian languages do
> not do this.  Instead, the politeness is often
> built into the pronouns and verbs, and the
> phrasing is quite direct and simple.  Hence
> international students from some Asian
> countries speaking English as a second language
> can come across as very abrupt, because they
> are translating directly from their own, direct
> language and losing their "politeness coding",
> without knowing how to use the complex
> politeness coding used in English (with its
> tricky tenses and question forms and so on).


Lynn:

This is true with many second-language situations
or just cultural differences.  Knowing this makes
it easier to accept and understand rather than
reject and get defensive in situations.  It's
also important that people really understand
their own language and culture which I think many
just take for granted and don't consider when
interacting with other cultures.  For me, tone of
voice carries a lot of weight in determining what
someone is saying, yet, in other cultures, the
same weight or inferences aren't put on tone
which can lead to a misinterpretation of what the
person is saying.

You also get priority differences, class
differences, etc. between cultures which can lead
to prejudices when we presume others should share
our own beliefs in areas.

My husband and I just say "culture clash"
whenever we confront issues which may arise due
to the differences in the American and Dutch
cultures or, as we're dealing with now, the
military and civilian culture.  And believe me,
I'm finding it a huge culture clash.  LOL

Lynn

=====
For the international news that's fit to print
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cnnworldnewsq-a

__________________________________
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From Ali at zymurgy.org  Wed May 21 17:46:04 2003
From: Ali at zymurgy.org (Ali)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 17:46:04 -0000
Subject: The State of Bigotry in JKR's Homeland
In-Reply-To: <20030521000525.13746.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bage0s+6aj5@eGroups.com>

 Lynn said:-

> > the private schools in that area will no longer accept bilingual 
children because they tend to bring down the test levels due to the 
language barrier.  This is done without testing to see if the child 
speaks and comprehends English in accordance with her grade level. 
It's just an automatic disqualification.  So, we've had to go out of 
the area to find a school who will accept her.<<

Petra Pan said:
 
>>> Hmm...I don't suppose, Lynn, you're moving to an area of England 
within commuting distance of where Ali's daughters go to school?  <g>
 
 The cynic in me also wonders if the rule for automatic 
isqualification at those schools in the name of 
 higher test levels is a cover for xenophobia.  After all, if the 
schools are truly concerned with their test levels being brought 
down, shouldn't they conduct *actual* investigations into a 
potential pupil's actual skill levels?<<<

Ali ponders:-

The lawyer in me wondered if it wasn't just xenophobia, but whether 
it amounted to discrimination, contrary to our Race Relations Act.

The idea of turning a child down because they happen to speak 
another language first, sounds ridiculous to me, and is certainly 
abhorrent. I would love my children to be bilingual.

There are some language problems in my kids' school, and I guess it 
does bring the "standards" down a bit - we don't by the way 
have "grades", kids automatically go up a level every year. However, 
I am conscious of the fact that my kids are learning about and 
understanding different cultures at first hand. I could send them to 
a school a mile up the road, and they would be in an almost totally 
WASP environment. They might end up doing slightly better at primary 
school, but they'd lack the cultural understanding - then they would 
go to the same secondary school anyway!

Ali
 





From marl2580 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed May 21 18:54:43 2003
From: marl2580 at yahoo.co.uk (marl2580)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 18:54:43 -0000
Subject: The State of Bigotry in JKR's Homeland (was) What not to say in Scotland
In-Reply-To: <bae964+9e65@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bagi1j+fur1@eGroups.com>

Ali wrote
> Prejudice is absolutely rampant, but it is also (in general) 
hidden. 

I'm not so sure about this, there were race riots in England not 
that long ago (last year?). Also I'm constantly trying to get my 
brothers to stop saying that they're just going to the Packy shop 
or the Chinkie. Having said that I don't think that it's just about 
race, here in Scotland (which admittedly has a minority 
population of 0.5%) you're more likely to get stopped and 
searched if you're a ned (young white male in tracksuit and 
baseball cap who talks out of his nose) than if you're a black 
man. 

The scottish thing is important - I'll bet you ?20 that if an Asian 
Scottish football fan was set upon by English football fans the 
scots would all rush to defend him. I also heard that many of the 
minorities in Scotland think of themselves as Scottish first, yet 
the same is not true of minorities in England. Maybe it's 
something to do with strong cultural identity.

Marley




From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Wed May 21 19:06:36 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 12:06:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Book reccomendations anyone?
In-Reply-To: <Law11-OE40vOSQeSOzN00018a1d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20030521190636.50287.qmail@web21207.mail.yahoo.com>


--- shanna wrote:
>  What are you all reading right
> now?  Just curious.  

Lynn:

Well, I just finished my upteenth reading of
Pride & Prejudice.  I love that book and really
have to replace my copy as the pages are coming
apart on this one.  I just received some books
from the US that my mom thought I'd like.  The
one I started today is called Sticks and Scones
(can't remember the author and I don't feel like
running upstairs to look).  It's about a caterer
who keeps ending up in the middle of murder
investigations, much like the Jill Churchill
books starring Jane and Shelley.  This one is
kinda neat because the author is a caterer and
she puts recipes in the book as well.  After
this, I have two Mary Higgins Clark books and a
couple of Sue Graftons to read.

Lynn

=====
For the international news that's fit to print
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cnnworldnewsq-a

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The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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From joym999 at aol.com  Wed May 21 19:28:15 2003
From: joym999 at aol.com (joywitch_m_curmudgeon)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:28:15 -0000
Subject: Book reccomendations anyone?
In-Reply-To: <Law11-OE40vOSQeSOzN00018a1d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bagk0f+igj5@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "shanna" <slstich at h...> wrote:
>     Hi all!
> After finally completing this semester of college, I'm searching 
for things
> to read while I wait for book5 to come out.  I'm interested in 
pretty much
> everything, particularly Fantasy and Horror.  What are you all 
reading right
> now?  Just curious.  I'll talk to you all later.
> Shanna


If you go to the database section of the main list, HPforGrownups, 
you'll find a table of recommended reading which lists over 50 
authors recommended by group members.

Everyone should feel free to add a line to this database, if they 
have any new ideas.

--Joywitch, just sitting at her desk growing her hair




From slstich at hotmail.com  Wed May 21 19:51:10 2003
From: slstich at hotmail.com (shanna)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 14:51:10 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Book reccomendations anyone?
References: <bagk0f+igj5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <Law11-OE67XhHHhm41000018f24@hotmail.com>

If you go to the database section of the main list, HPforGrownups,
you'll find a table of recommended reading which lists over 50
authors recommended by group members.

Thank you Joy!  I'll be sure to check there!
Shanna


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Wed May 21 19:58:19 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 12:58:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: The State of Bigotry in JKR's Homeland
In-Reply-To: <bage0s+6aj5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030521195819.47433.qmail@web21210.mail.yahoo.com>


> Ali ponders:-
> 
> The lawyer in me wondered if it wasn't just
> xenophobia, but whether 
> it amounted to discrimination, contrary to our
> Race Relations Act.
> 
> The idea of turning a child down because they
> happen to speak 
> another language first, sounds ridiculous to
> me, and is certainly 
> abhorrent. I would love my children to be
> bilingual.
> 
> There are some language problems in my kids'
> school, and I guess it 
> does bring the "standards" down a bit - we
> don't by the way 
> have "grades", kids automatically go up a level
> every year. 

Lynn:

>From what we understand, the schools in the area
are either not equipped or not willing to deal
with bi-lingual children.  Part of the problem is
that many of the kids are only there for a short
time, usually 3 years, and perhaps the schools
just don't have the resources to deal with the
constant stream or just don't want to.  However,
what the schools have said is that the tests end
up being lower since one year just isn't enough
time to bring the kids up to the language and
academic standards and then the test results are
lower, which hurts the school standings.  How in
the world this applies to a four year old I have
yet to figure out.  They have national tests for
four year olds?  However, perhaps they feel they
need to follow the policy without exception. 
Again, though, without finding out just where a
student falls linguistically and academically
seems strange to me.  On the other hand, there
could be kids from as many as 15 different
countries who are needing to start school, all
with a different language and different academic
standards.  Perhaps by refusing them all they are
trying to avoid being accused of discrimination
by saying the academic standards of this country
are okay but that one is lacking.

We're hoping to send our daughter to the American
Community School.  They are used to bi-lingual
students and celebrate the diversity of the
student population.  I think it's a great way for
kids to be exposed to a variety of cultures and
learn to about cultural differences.

Lynn

=====
For the international news that's fit to print
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cnnworldnewsq-a

__________________________________
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The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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From erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com  Wed May 21 20:25:18 2003
From: erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com (Phyllis)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 20:25:18 -0000
Subject: Book reccomendations anyone?
In-Reply-To: <Law11-OE40vOSQeSOzN00018a1d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bagnbe+f092@eGroups.com>

Shanna wrote:

> What are you all reading right now?  Just curious.  I'll talk to 
> you all later.

Now me:

The Leaky Cauldron recently cited the following article about where 
the HP books stand in a British survey of the top 50 books written by 
women:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/05/12/1052591718611.html

The article includes a list of the top 50 books (although some of the 
books tied for a single ranking, so there are actually more than 50 
books on the list) ? lots of good possibilities for you!  I'm in the 
process of working my way through the ones I haven't read before  
(btw, Lynn's favorite, "Pride and Prejudice," is #1!).

I recently read "The Lovely Bones" by Alice Sebold and found it very 
powerful ? I would highly recommend this book to you.  I would also 
recommend anything by Philip Pullman (His Dark Materials trilogy; the 
Sally Lockhart trilogy), as well as the Wind on Fire trilogy by 
William Nicholson.

Whatever you choose to read ? enjoy!

~Phyllis





From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Wed May 21 20:33:50 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 20:33:50 -0000
Subject: Book reccomendations anyone?
In-Reply-To: <bagnbe+f092@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bagnre+h9hd@eGroups.com>

Shanna wrote:

> What are you all reading right now?  

Just finished "Seabiscuit" and loved it.  I had put it off for over 
a year because, well . . . it's about horse racing.  It really was 
very good.

Go, Funnycide!

Cindy -- working on "Animal Farm" right now, which shouldn't take 
long




From slstich at hotmail.com  Wed May 21 21:21:23 2003
From: slstich at hotmail.com (shanna)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:21:23 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Book reccomendations anyone?
References: <bagnbe+f092@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <Law11-OE13brzvsTDWW00001928@hotmail.com>

Hello Phyllis.
Actually, I started the His Dark Materials trilogy, but couldn't really get in to it much.  I'm not sure why, maybe it was just the writing style, but it just didn't hold my interest for very long.  I'll try the others you suggested though!  Thanks!
Shanna


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Wed May 21 21:34:39 2003
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 21:34:39 -0000
Subject: Totally off-topic, but amazing nonetheless...
Message-ID: <bagrdf+dtrj@eGroups.com>

Hey, all.  Typical housewife me, I was flipping through channels while
Ginger is in "quiet time" and won't whine about what I'm watching, and
I caught Oprah 20 minutes into the show.  Well, it was one of those
shows where she gives everyone in the audience lots of goodies - after
the show was over, I went to oprah.com and figured out that all the
stuff she gave to EACH person cost almost $2900!  EACH!!!  They got a
5.3 megapixel camera and photo printer!  They got a 15G Ipod!!!  They
got a $200 self-navigating vacuum!

I'm sorry, but I'm a little jealous.  Crap, I could use some $200
sunglasses and some $75 skin cream, too!!!

-Jen P., who wonders if her karma warehouse is full enough to get into
one of the Oprah shows around Christmas... ;)




From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Wed May 21 23:01:06 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:01:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Book reccomendations anyone?
In-Reply-To: <bagnbe+f092@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030521230106.21261.qmail@web21209.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Phyllis wrote:
> The Leaky Cauldron recently cited the following
> article about where 
> the HP books stand in a British survey of the
> top 50 books written by 
> women:
> 
>
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/05/12/1052591718611.html
> (btw, Lynn's favorite, "Pride and Prejudice,"
> is #1!).


Lynn:

See, I knew I had good taste.  LOL  A lot of
these books are ones I had to read in school and
I found that when I read them again when I was
older I was able to appreciate them a lot more.

There are lots of great books on that list. 
There are quite a few that I haven't read yet so
I've got some good reading to look forward to. 

Thanks for sharing the list.

Lynn 

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From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Wed May 21 23:14:21 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:14:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Totally off-topic, but amazing nonetheless...
In-Reply-To: <bagrdf+dtrj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030521231421.64139.qmail@web21205.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Jennifer wrote:
> -Jen P., who wonders if her karma warehouse is
> full enough to get into
> one of the Oprah shows around Christmas... ;)


Lynn:

My karma would get me the show where all they get
is donuts.  (Well, if it was a Krispy Kreme it
would be worth it. LOL)  The best shows are the
ones where she's showing either new gadgets or
around Christmas when she's showing possible
presents.  I remember one show where she was
highlighting her favorite catalogs and people
walked away with tons of stuff.  I wonder though
if there is a special list for those shows.  I
remember her telling one audience that they were
so good they were all going to be invited back
for one of her give-away shows.  If any of those
people were from out of town, it's worth it to
buy another plane ticket since the gifts you get
costs more than the ticket.

Lynn

=====
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From meboriqua at aol.com  Wed May 21 23:27:28 2003
From: meboriqua at aol.com (jenny_ravenclaw)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 23:27:28 -0000
Subject: Buffy Series Finale - No Spoilers & Books
Message-ID: <bah210+a9kb@eGroups.com>

Hey everyone -

I was wondering who watched the series finale of Buffy and what you 
all thought of it.  I know that not everyone is up to speed with Buffy 
so responses here aren't so fair.  Feel free to email me at 
meboriqua at aol.com if you'd like to discuss it.

As far as book recommendations go, I'm a big Alice Hoffman fan.  She 
always has an element of the supernatural in her novels, which is 
something I like.  

--jenny from ravenclaw ****************************************




From jenw118 at yahoo.com  Thu May 22 04:19:06 2003
From: jenw118 at yahoo.com (Jennifer R. Wilson)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 21:19:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Totally off-topic, but amazing nonetheless...
In-Reply-To: <20030521231421.64139.qmail@web21205.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030522041906.60210.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com>


> 
> --- Jennifer wrote:
> > -Jen P., who wonders if her karma warehouse is
> > full enough to get into
> > one of the Oprah shows around Christmas... ;)

Well, that's what I was thinking too.  I definitely
want an IPod in the future now :)  I think the only
problem with the getting tickets for her show is you
never know what the subject of the show you're
attending is going to be.

I'd seriously take tickets around Christmastime
myself... That stuff was AMAZING today!

>From one Jennifer to another :) 

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From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Thu May 22 04:57:36 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 21:57:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: The State of Bigotry in JKR's Homeland // Of curls and culture
In-Reply-To: <20030521195819.47433.qmail@web21210.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030522045736.93939.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com>

Lynn, in part:
> From what we understand, the schools
> in the area are either not equipped
> or not willing to deal with bi-lingual
> children.  Part of the problem is
> that many of the kids are only there
> for a short time, usually 3 years, and
> perhaps the schools just don't have
> the resources to deal with the
> constant stream or just don't want to. 
> However, what the schools have said is
> that the tests end up being lower
> since one year just isn't enough time
> to bring the kids up to the language
> and academic standards and then the
> test results are lower, which hurts
> the school standings.  How in the
> world this applies to a four year old
> I have yet to figure out.  They have
> national tests for four year olds? 
> However, perhaps they feel they need
> to follow the policy without exception. 
> Again, though, without finding out just
> where a student falls linguistically
> and academically seems strange to me.

To me also.

still Lynn:
> On the other hand, there could be kids
> from as many as 15 different countries
> who are needing to start school, all
> with a different language and different
> academic standards.  Perhaps by
> refusing them all they are trying to
> avoid being accused of discrimination
> by saying the academic standards of
> this country are okay but that one is
> lacking.

Ah but if the concern is an academic one, 
then why aren't applicants being assessed 
academically INDIVIDUALLY?

Really, it's one thing to turn away 
pupils that they are not capable of 
educating but it's quite another for the 
schools to enact a policy that is based 
on the erroneous assumptions that 

(a) they cannot teach anyone who is 
bilingual,

(b) that everyone who's bilingual (read: 
speaks English as a 2nd language) is 
academically inferior, and 

(c) the above are and will always be true, 
without exception.

So are those schools prone to poor logic, 
which is particularly egregious for 
institutions of learning, in the formation 
of their policies or are they hiding 
motives they are unwilling to express in 
their rejections? (This ever-so-suspicious 
mind wants to know...<g>)

Y'know, it's a good thing your daughter 
will not be spending her impressionable 
years soaking up poor logic.

     *     *     *

Marley:
> The scottish thing is important -
> I'll bet you 20 that if an Asian 
> Scottish football fan was set
> upon by English football fans the 
> scots would all rush to defend him.
> I also heard that many of the 
> minorities in Scotland think of
> themselves as Scottish first, yet 
> the same is not true of minorities
> in England. Maybe it's something to
> do with strong cultural identity.

Interesting point - cultural identity 
used to be synonymous with racial 
identity, and thus defined by physical 
traits as opposed to actually cultural 
ones.  Conventional wisdom holds the 
following rule of thumb to be true: If 
someone looks and sounds like you, you 
two probably share a common culture.  
But in the more complicated world 
today, how would your above scenario 
work?  We're talking about a situation 
that doesn't exactly foster in-depth 
exchanges of info on cultural 
backgrounds.

In other words, how would the 
rescuing Scots know that a fellow 
Scottish football fan is being 
attacked if the attacked is Asian in 
appearance?  I'm assuming that your 
example is implying that the rescue 
is prompted by the desire to defend 
a fellow SCOTTish football fan from 
the supporters of the rival English 
team, and not because of anything 
else.  Heck, in the midst of the 
melee, how would the Scots and the 
Anglos know who's friend and who's 
foe?

Is 'Gaelic-dar' a less well known 
cousin of the gay-dar?  <eg>

     *     *     *

Yours truly:
> Y'know, on the one hand, public 
> displays of prejudice appall me.  
> But OTOH, driving the bigots 
> underground only hides such 
> tendencies, which is surely more 
> insidious.
>
> The question of how a society can 
> nudge bigots into shedding 
> prejudices without triggering the 
> defense mechanism and the digging 
> in of heels has no easy answers

Tabouli, in part:
> I'd rather reform people than gag
> them.  Not an easy task, as you
> say, but not triggering the defence
> mechanism is, in my experience,
> absolutely *CRUCIAL*.
> 
> The problem with a lot of campaigning
> against prejudice is not the
> message, or the intention.  Both are
> (usually) great.  The problem is
> with the *marketing*.  I've seen so
> many depressing "cultural diversity"
> sessions where the presenter gets up
> and starts a sermon telling people
> that they are Prejudiced Without
> Knowing It by virtue of being
> members of the majority culture,
> and illustrates this point with ten
> case studies of hidden prejudice
> caused by people like them which
> caused terrible suffering, and then
> hits them with a long list of
> ambiguous rules and terms which
> must be followed to the letter lest
> the wrath of the Discrimination Act
> fall upon their heads.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

But I do want to add that such efforts 
are counter-productive because they 
tend to define prejudice with hard-
and-fast rules for identifying 'markers' 
of prejudice.  Rules are easy and 
do-able while insightful analysis is 
hard to teach.  Yet, what's the point of 
rules when they inevitably apply only to 
a specific set of circumstances?  This 
is temporal.  We would be better off 
with skills that can be applied with 
more universality.

I much prefer people who know 
their own prejudices, their own foibles 
that they do not act upon than people who 
cling to the belief that since they do 
not have a prejudiced bone in their body, 
they never have to be on the look out for 
poor judgments of others on their own part.

The typical efforts in combating prejudice 
inevitably encourage bigots to take the 
latter approach.

Tabouli, in another part:
> Start by attacking them and their
> culture and the behaviour they consider
> reasonable and normal, attempt to
> blackmail them with emotional appeals
> and then threaten them with litigation
> if they fail to follow rules they
> consider confusing and intrusive and
> pointless... honestly!  If anything,
> this will *increase* their prejudice!

Oh yes, this happens all the time in RL!

I must confess that I can't wait to see 
how JKR ultimately develops the themes 
of prejudice in HP; just what does she 
have in store for the Death Eaters and 
those of their ilk?

Tabouli:
<snip ex. of growth and paradigm shift> 
> OK, so perhaps not a great triumph
> over prejudice, but a nudge, I feel.

Selling yourself short here.  :)

Y'know, in helping your student to adopt 
a different POV, you have improved her 
life.  I mean really, who wants to feel 
insulted, right?  Perhaps this is the 
'spoonful of sugar' that would help make 
our current experiments with cultural 
diversity less of a chore and more of 
A Great Adventure.

Ultimately, and practically speaking, 
the shedding of bigotry can only be 
motivated by possible improvement of the 
bigots' experience of being alive.  
Improvement of 'their lot at the expense 
of mine' surely motivates nary a human 
who'd insist on the greatest of divides 
between 'me, myself & mine' and 'the 
other'/'them.'

Petra chants: "31 days - just 31!"
a
n  :)

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From steinber at zahav.net.il  Fri May 23 06:56:16 2003
From: steinber at zahav.net.il (m.steinberger)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 08:56:16 +0200
Subject: Other lists
Message-ID: <001001c320f8$9aa9bfa0$a809fea9@f2m8k9>

I've been hearing about other HP lists for adults, like SugarQuill, Red Hen, Leaky Cauldron, etc. How do they compare to HP4GU, which I've been on for a while? Are the discussions different? Different types of topics?

Anyone in the mood to answer, could you please post me off-list (in addition/ instead) since I'm set to no mail to avoid flooding my inbox.

Thanks,

TAS



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From heidit at netbox.com  Thu May 22 07:01:00 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (heidi)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 00:01:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Other lists
In-Reply-To: <001001c320f8$9aa9bfa0$a809fea9@f2m8k9>
Message-ID: <20030522070100.57134.qmail@web80501.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "m.steinberger" <steinber at zahav.net.il> wrote:
> 
> I've been hearing about other HP lists for adults,
> like SugarQuill, Red Hen, Leaky Cauldron, etc. How
> do they compare to HP4GU, which I've been on for a
> while? Are the discussions different? Different
> types of topics?
> 

SugarQuill primarily focuses on issues relating to
fanfic writing, and discussion of canon among
Weasley-fans and both Harry/Ginny and Ron/Hermione
shippers. 

Leaky Cauldron, where I am an editor, does not have
discussions, per se, although we allow comments on the
message boards - there's really nowhere there for
canon discussion. 

I don't know what Red Hen is - never heard of it - so
someone else can explain that.

FictionAlley has a number of canon discussion boards
(http://www.fictionalley.org//fictionalleypark/forums/forumdisplay.php?&forumid=10)
and character discussion boards
(http://www.fictionalley.org//fictionalleypark/forums/forumdisplay.php?&forumid=11).
We discuss a lot of the same topics that are discussed
here, but as it's a message board, it doesn't fill
your inbox, and it's a lot easier to search for topics
than it is to use the Yahoomort search engine (IMO). 
We have a schedule of planned chapter and character
discussions, starting with OoTP, which will start just
after Nimbus - 2003 in August, too. 

While FA was created as a repository for fanfic, you
can spend hours on the message boards and not see a
mention of fanfic (other than in people's sigfiles,
which you get here on HPfGU too anyway). 


heidi

=====
heidi tandy

They say its a sign of mental health to hold apparently contradictory ideas in your mind. The world of late has been a particularly exotic stew of horror and beauty. There are killers, there are saints. The trick is to find the right spot on the spectrum between abject despair and total obliviousness. And then carry on...
Joel Achenbach



From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu May 22 08:43:30 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 08:43:30 -0000
Subject: Identifying football fans
In-Reply-To: <20030522045736.93939.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bai2ji+g15d@eGroups.com>

Petra Pan wrote:

> In other words, how would the 
> rescuing Scots know that a fellow 
> Scottish football fan is being 
> attacked if the attacked is Asian in 
> appearance?  I'm assuming that your 
> example is implying that the rescue 
> is prompted by the desire to defend 
> a fellow SCOTTish football fan from 
> the supporters of the rival English 
> team, and not because of anything 
> else.  Heck, in the midst of the 
> melee, how would the Scots and the 
> Anglos know who's friend and who's 
> foe?

By physical appearance, of course!

If a fan has a blue face, with a white St Andrews cross on it, that 
is usually understood to imply an allegiance to the Scottish team.  
A white face with a red cross would, on the other hand, indicate 
identification with the English team.

Other indicators for the *particularly* observant might include 
articles of clothing in the team colours, flags being waved, etc.

Finally, there are cultural indicators: shouts and gestures of 
support or opposition, songs sung, and so on.

David




From hp at plum.cream.org  Thu May 22 09:34:09 2003
From: hp at plum.cream.org (GulPlum)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 10:34:09 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Other lists
In-Reply-To: <20030522070100.57134.qmail@web80501.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <001001c320f8$9aa9bfa0$a809fea9@f2m8k9>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20030522102348.009787e0@plum.cream.org>

heidi wrote, in reply to TAS's question:

> > I've been hearing about other HP lists for adults, like SugarQuill, Red 
> Hen,
> > Leaky Cauldron, etc. How do they compare to HP4GU, which I've been on
> > for a while? Are the discussions different? Different types of topics?

>I don't know what Red Hen is - never heard of it - so
>someone else can explain that.

Red Hen isn't a discussion site. It's JOdel's web site, to which he makes 
occasional reference on the list.

To add another idea to the mix, though, there's always the 
alt.fan.harry-potter newsgroup, but anyone who don't know anything about 
Usenet is probably better off not going there because things can get VERY 
rough (like all newsgroups, it's unmoderated and too many people look at it 
as a free-for-all), although several HPFGU folks appear there occasionally 
(including Heidi).  :-)




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Thu May 22 12:11:07 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 08:11:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Belated Birthday Wishes for Mirzam!
Message-ID: <20030522121107.3640.qmail@web41111.mail.yahoo.com>

*drags cake to center of room, no mean feat with tea
towel hiding embarassed face*

Yup, forgot a birthday. Sincere apologies to Mirzam.
Will iron fingers if necessary.

Yesterday's birthday honouree was Mirzam Black.
Belated birthday owls can be sent care of this list or
directly to mirzamblack at yahoo.com

I hope your day was filled with fun and magic.

Belated Happy Birthday, Mirzam!

Sheryll the bad Birthday Elf

=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From s_ings at yahoo.com  Thu May 22 12:17:34 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 08:17:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Happy Birthday, Jen P!
Message-ID: <20030522121734.99172.qmail@web41113.mail.yahoo.com>

*tries to hang streamers, place food on many tables,
finish decorating 4 foot cake and charm sparkling
confetti to hover above the room*

You, over there. I need some help here. Today is a
very special birthday. I need all available hands to
make this room ready.

Today's birthday honouree is Jen P. Jen has been a
member of HPFGU longer than anyone else I can remember
and deserves many, many birthday wishes, if only for
putting up with the likes of us for so long!

Birthday owls can be sent care of this list or
directly to JenP_97 at yahoo.com

I hope your day is filled with joy, peace, magic and
more fun than you can imagine. 

Happy Birthday, Jen!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf, setting off fireworks

=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From katherine.coble at crgibson.com  Thu May 22 13:18:54 2003
From: katherine.coble at crgibson.com (Coble, Katherine)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 09:18:54 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Totally off-topic, but amazing nonetheless.
	..
Message-ID: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3FB6@teserver01.treat.net>



> Lynn:
> 
> My karma would get me the show where all they get
> is donuts.   (Well, if it was a Krispy Kreme it
> would be worth it. LOL)   The best shows are the
> ones where she's showing either new gadgets or
> around Christmas when she's showing possible
> presents.   I remember one show where she was
> highlighting her favorite catalogs and people
> walked away with tons of stuff.   I wonder though
> if there is a special list for those shows.   I
> remember her telling one audience that they were
> so good they were all going to be invited back
> for one of her give-away shows.   If any of those
> people were from out of town, it's worth it to
> buy another plane ticket since the gifts you get
> costs more than the ticket.
> 
> 
Me:

Yeah, the gifts are great, but just remember that you have to pay 35% income
tax
on all gift items.   That's still not an altogether bad deal, but it does
make them less
"free" than they seem.   

Mycropht
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From katherine.coble at crgibson.com  Thu May 22 13:20:57 2003
From: katherine.coble at crgibson.com (Coble, Katherine)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 09:20:57 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Totally off-topic, but amazing nonetheless.
	..
Message-ID: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3FB7@teserver01.treat.net>

	Jennifer writes:
> Well, that's what I was thinking too.   I definitely
> want an IPod in the future now :) 
> 
Mycropht:

I'm a DIE-HARD Machead...have been for 20 years now.  Any time anyone wants
an
Apple product I'm just gleeful.

Besides, I've got to say (and I don't work for Apple...really...) that the
Music Store on
iTunes is the greatest thing since sliced bread.  I've fallen in love with
it.  Maybe now I'll
have to splurge on an iPod.
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 This e-mail and any attachments may contain information which is
confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise protected by law. The
information is solely intended for the named addressee (or a person
responsible for delivering it to the addressee). If you are not the intended
recipient of this message, you are not authorized to read, print, retain,
copy or disseminate this message or any part of it. If you have received
this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail
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From southernscotland at yahoo.com  Thu May 22 13:37:08 2003
From: southernscotland at yahoo.com (southernscotland)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 13:37:08 -0000
Subject: book recs
Message-ID: <baijq4+88ue@eGroups.com>

Hey, there! 

I just read a great book you might like, Holes, by Louis Sachar. My 
nine-year-old son recommended it highly. It's got a lot of meaning 
for a children's book (therefore is readable on many different 
levels), and is quite funny, besides. It's won a lot of awards, is  
quite popular with adults and children, and recently was made into a 
very good movie.

Hmmm... What other book could I say all that about? Sounds so 
familiar...

Anyone else out there read Holes, too?

lilahp




From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Thu May 22 13:47:11 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 13:47:11 -0000
Subject: book recs
In-Reply-To: <baijq4+88ue@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <baikcv+95as@eGroups.com>

Lilahp wrote:

> Anyone else out there read Holes, too?

Oh, yes.  That was a very good book.  My daughter liked the movie as 
well, but I haven't seen it.  

I just finished "Animal Farm" by George Orwell.  Very, very good.  
It's amazing that someone can write a compelling book in so few 
pages -- about 125 pages.

Cindy




From heidit at netbox.com  Thu May 22 13:48:27 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (heidi tandy)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 06:48:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Other lists
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20030522102348.009787e0@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <20030522134827.34863.qmail@web80501.mail.yahoo.com>


--- GulPlum <hp at plum.cream.org> wrote:> 
> >I don't know what Red Hen is - never heard of it -
> so
> >someone else can explain that.
> 
> Red Hen isn't a discussion site. It's JOdel's web
> site, to which he makes 
> occasional reference on the list.

No wonder I didn't put 2 + 2 together - I have it
bookmarked as The JOdel Site...

And I concurr with Richard about alt.fan.harry-potter.
I've posted there but not with any regularity,
although using Deja.com makes it easier to search than
Yahoogroups, in a lot of ways. But it is difficult to
get used to newsgroups if you've never been in them
before - although I've heard the same thing about
mailing lists and message boards. 

Which leads me to my question:

How many of you have your first experience with
Usenet, mailing lists or message boards because of
your interest in HP?

And what's it like, being a newbie to both the
list/board/group *and* to the concept/method of
discussion? What do you think when you see the style
of posting, etc.?

I started using Usenet back in 92, and mailing lists
in 93, which is about a third of my life, so it's a
bit second nature to me. I know to lurk for a bit
before posting, or at least read a few days' posts +
the Rules all at once, and I can read a number of
different "quoting" styles with ease. But what do you
think of all those 
> something someone said
>> something someone else said
> something the first person said
My own comments

And the concept of replying and having thousands of
people potentially read your reply, and all that jazz?

Is it weird, if you've never done it before?




=====
heidi tandy

They say its a sign of mental health to hold apparently contradictory ideas in your mind. The world of late has been a particularly exotic stew of horror and beauty. There are killers, there are saints. The trick is to find the right spot on the spectrum between abject despair and total obliviousness. And then carry on...
Joel Achenbach



From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Thu May 22 14:12:59 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 07:12:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Totally off-topic, but amazing nonetheless. ..
In-Reply-To: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3FB6@teserver01.treat.net>
Message-ID: <20030522141259.93902.qmail@web21209.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Mycropht wrote:
> Yeah, the gifts are great, but just remember
> that you have to pay 35% income
> tax
> on all gift items.   That's still not an
> altogether bad deal, but it does
> make them less
> "free" than they seem.   


Lynn:

I don't think they have to claim these things on
their income taxes.  These aren't prizes or
winnings, they are gifts.  Actually, these are
company give-aways just as the stuff you get on
the street corner when some company is doing a
promotional, just on a more expensive scale. 

Lynn

=====
For the international news that's fit to print
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cnnworldnewsq-a

__________________________________
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From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Thu May 22 14:16:04 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 07:16:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: book recs
In-Reply-To: <baikcv+95as@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030522141604.61116.qmail@web21210.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Cindy wrote:

> I just finished "Animal Farm" by George Orwell.
>  Very, very good.  
> It's amazing that someone can write a
> compelling book in so few 
> pages -- about 125 pages.


Lynn:

Animal Farm is a very good book.  It was required
reading when I was in school and I read it again
in my 30s and it struck me at a whole different
level.  You're so right - it's very compelling.

Lynn

=====
For the international news that's fit to print
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cnnworldnewsq-a

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com



From katherine.coble at crgibson.com  Thu May 22 14:52:35 2003
From: katherine.coble at crgibson.com (Coble, Katherine)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 10:52:35 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: book recs
Message-ID: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3FBC@teserver01.treat.net>

Lilahp:
> Anyone else out there read Holes, too?
> 
Mycropht:

I hadn't yet, but have been curious.  I think I'll check it out on your
recommendation.

I read often, but my tastes run more toward thrillers, usually.  However I
do really love epics
and WW2 stories as well.

Some of my favourites, across all genres:

_Sarum_   Edward Rutherford
_Pillars of the Earth_  Ken Follet
_Morgan's Run_   Colleen McCulloch
_Gone For Good_  & _Tell No One_  Harlan Coben
_Rachel's Holiday_  & _Last Chance Saloon_ Marian Keyes
_The Descent_    Jeff Long
_The Wire In The Blood_ Val McDermid
_Gone To Soldiers_    Marge Piercy
_Talking To Addison_ & _Allison's Wedding_  Jenny Colgan
_The Eyre Affair_   Jasper Fford




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responsible for delivering it to the addressee). If you are not the intended
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From katherine.coble at crgibson.com  Thu May 22 14:56:29 2003
From: katherine.coble at crgibson.com (Coble, Katherine)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 10:56:29 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Totally off-topic, but amazing nonetheless.
	 ..
Message-ID: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3FBD@teserver01.treat.net>


> --- Mycropht wrote:
> > Yeah, the gifts are great, but just remember
> > that you have to pay 35% income
> > tax
> > on all gift items.    That's still not an
> > altogether bad deal, but it does
> > make them less
> > "free" than they seem.    
> 
> 
> Lynn:
> 
> I don't think they have to claim these things on
> their income taxes.   These aren't prizes or
> winnings, they are gifts. 
> 
> 
Mycropht.

Okay. Now I'm just out & out jealous!  Bummer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Thu May 22 15:37:23 2003
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 15:37:23 -0000
Subject: He did it!
Message-ID: <baiqrj+humg@eGroups.com>

Well, I shaved Chris's head last night.  I'm putting 
a before, mid (buzz cut), and total shave picture in 
the pictures files.  He looks a little less irritated 
(skin-wise) this morning, though you can almost 
visibly SEE the ulcer forming in his stomach.  He's 
so stressed out about going to work this morning 
(even though he doesn't have any classes)... I think 
he's regretting his decision to tell me "I'll do 
whatever you want" VERY much. :)

-Jen P., 28 today.

ps.  Thanks for the birthday wishes, Sheryll!




From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Thu May 22 16:33:14 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 16:33:14 -0000
Subject: He did it!
In-Reply-To: <baiqrj+humg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <baiu4a+fcfr@eGroups.com>

Jen wrote:

> Well, I shaved Chris's head last night.  

My goodness, you certainly did!  :-D

Well, he's one Hunk O' Burnin' Love either way, in my opinion.  But 
he'll be more of a bald chick magnet if he can manage a more 
enthusiastic expression about the whole thing!  ;-)

And Happy Birthday, Jen!

Cindy -- who did manage to get dh to shave off his moustache as a 
wedding present, and who is pleased he opted not to grow it back





From annemehr at yahoo.com  Thu May 22 16:51:48 2003
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 16:51:48 -0000
Subject: Greyness? Was: Baldness, ugh, was Re: The perfectly shaped head & Pushing Thirty
In-Reply-To: <3ECBA821.6472E241@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <baiv74+418f@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Susan Fox-Davis <selene at e...> 
wrote:
<snip> 
> Joywitch again:
> 
> >Although, has anyone noticed this trend of bald women?  In the last
> >few years, I have seen a number of women who have shaved their
> >heads.  There was even an article about it in the newspaper, IIRC.
> >It is surprisingly pretty, sometimes.  Once you get over the 
initial
> >shock of a woman without hair, there is something quite nice about
> >the contrast between the lack of hair and the soft features of her
> >face.  Go figure.
> 
> I might consider it for comfort and ease of care but for one 
niggling
> detail:  I'd resemble not so much Sigourney Weaver as Donald 
Pleasance.
> Round punkin head, round punkin body, I need all the crowning glory 
I
> can get!  Fortunately, so far [crossing fingers] I've only got a bit 
of
> "distinguished sideburns" and not much more silver threads amongst 
the
> chestnut.
> 
> Susan Fox-Davis
> selene at e...

Annemehr:

Me, too, only with a round pear body...(not that I'd consider shaving 
*my* head!)

And my once 'distinguished sideburns' are spreading rapidly.  If I 
pull my hair back into a clip or ponytail, it looks almost *all* grey, 
but if it's parted and hanging down, it still looks mostly brunette.  
Fortunately, the 'grey' ones are pure white.

I tried coloring it before, but *hated* it -- it just wasn't my hair 
anymore!  So now I'm just going natural.  This is not unheard-of in 
the real world, but still seems quite unusual for a woman.  So now I'm 
wondering if this group is any different -- do you like/hate greying 
hair on women or yourself?

Annemehr
who still likes to pull her hair up in the summer anyway, so there!




From slstich at hotmail.com  Thu May 22 17:00:49 2003
From: slstich at hotmail.com (Shanna)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 12:00:49 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: book recs
References: <baijq4+88ue@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <Law11-OE36a1QxKD3lk00004c72@hotmail.com>

Hey!
I just might have to borrow that from my little cousin! lol  He's been raving about it for weeks now.  I'll have to read it so we'll have something else to talk about.
Shanna

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: southernscotland 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 8:37 AM
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: book recs


  Hey, there! 

  I just read a great book you might like, Holes, by Louis Sachar. My 
  nine-year-old son recommended it highly. It's got a lot of meaning 
  for a children's book (therefore is readable on many different 
  levels), and is quite funny, besides. It's won a lot of awards, is  
  quite popular with adults and children, and recently was made into a 
  very good movie.

  Hmmm... What other book could I say all that about? Sounds so 
  familiar...

  Anyone else out there read Holes, too?

  lilahp


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From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Thu May 22 16:57:15 2003
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 16:57:15 -0000
Subject: He did it!
In-Reply-To: <baiu4a+fcfr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <baivhb+tdes@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." 
<cindysphynx at c...> wrote:


> But he'll be more of a bald chick magnet if he 
> can manage a more enthusiastic expression about 
> the whole thing!  ;-)

Yeah, that picture pretty much sums it up - He 
had that look on his face all this morning.  He's 
being a pretty good sport about it, even though 
you can tell he's dying inside.  It doesn't help 
that when I sent the pictures to his family, the 
responses were pretty much all "I just can't stop 
laughing!"

Oh well.  I think he'll be more comfortable once 
that newly-shaven feeling wears off his scalp 
skin and he gets some sun (I just hope he doesn't 
get a sunburn!).  He actually liked the middle 
stage where he had a really close buzz cut.

Personally?  I think he looks a little better 
with hair... although that shiny, rubbery scalp 
is absolutely FASCINATING - and if he'd let me, 
I'd rub it all day...

-Jen





From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Thu May 22 17:33:23 2003
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 17:33:23 -0000
Subject: Greyness? Was: Baldness, ugh, was Re: The perfectly shaped head & Pushing Thirty
In-Reply-To: <baiv74+418f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <baj1l3+5moe@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> wrote:

> I tried coloring it before, but *hated* it -- it 
> just wasn't my hair anymore!  So now I'm just 
> going natural.  This is not unheard-of in the real 
> world, but still seems quite unusual for a woman.  
> So now I'm wondering if this group is any different 
> -- do you like/hate greying hair on women or 
> yourself?


I know, I told you all I'm only 28 today, but I am 
going grey.  I was expecting it a lot earlier... my 
dad started going grey at age 12, and my sisters 
started in their very early 20s.  Anyway, I love 
them.  They're also pure white, and I can't help but 
really REALLY like them.  My hair has always been 
pretty bland... thick, straight, dark brown hair.  
No big deal.  Now, however, I've got these very 
distinctive (at least in someone my age) white hairs 
popping up in my bangs and randomly throughout my 
hair (I've got at least 20 full-length ones, and who 
knows how many that are just starting).  I blame 
them on my girls.  They seem to be more prevalent at 
my hairline, and since I almost always pull my hair 
into a ponytail, they're pretty noticeable.

Anyway, I'm not going to color them away.  I like 
'em.  Of course, I also don't wear a lot of makeup, 
don't go tanning, don't fantasize about plastic 
surgery, and think that all these methods preventing 
people from naturally aging (like Botox) are Crazy 
with a capital C.  Why is getting old so horrible, 
anyway?  I mean, do celebrities (like Mary Tyler 
Moore and Chevy Chase) think they look young enough 
to not be cast as grandparents after having "work" 
done on their faces?  Do they not notice that they 
look stretched and plastic-y?  Who do they think 
they're kidding?  Are they insane?  Or are their 
personal assistants and lackeys just afraid they'll 
get fired if they tell the truth?

-Jen, all chatty today.




From heidit at netbox.com  Thu May 22 17:47:16 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 13:47:16 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Greyness? Was: Baldness, ugh, was Re: The perfectly shaped head & Pushing Thirty
Message-ID: <mailman.47.1576049047.5361.hpfgu-otchatter@archive.hpfgu.org>

HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> wrote:

> I tried coloring it before, but *hated* it -- it 
> just wasn't my hair anymore!  So now I'm just 
> going natural.  This is not unheard-of in the real 
> world, but still seems quite unusual for a woman.  
> So now I'm wondering if this group is any different 
> -- do you like/hate greying hair on women or 
> yourself?

I hate mine. I've been colouring my hair dark brown - to match my natural colour - since I started going grey at 24. And at that point I was planning my wedding and no way was I walking down the aisle at 25 with grey hair. 

But then again, my hair has, since I grew it below my shoulders for the first time when I was in college, been my one vanity. I also do think that having grey hair at a really young age, like I did, is a bit unprofessional - although in your 30s I think that becomes less of an issue - or once you have kids. 


Heidi Tandy
*Ask me about Nimbus - 2003*
Http://www.hp2003.org 



From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Thu May 22 18:15:32 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 11:15:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Identifying football fans
In-Reply-To: <bai2ji+g15d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030522181533.24480.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com>

Yours truly:
> In other words, how would the 
> rescuing Scots know that a fellow 
> Scottish football fan is being 
> attacked if the attacked is Asian in 
> appearance?  I'm assuming that your 
> example is implying that the rescue 
> is prompted by the desire to defend 
> a fellow SCOTTish football fan from 
> the supporters of the rival English 
> team, and not because of anything 
> else.  Heck, in the midst of the 
> melee, how would the Scots and the 
> Anglos know who's friend and who's 
> foe?

David:
> By physical appearance, of course!
> 
> If a fan has a blue face, with a
> white St Andrews cross on it, that 
> is usually understood to imply an
> allegiance to the Scottish team.  
> A white face with a red cross would,
> on the other hand, indicate 
> identification with the English team.

<light dawns>  Can you tell I've never 
been to a British football game?  
Hmm...so face paint may be more than 
for show of support...it's also for 
the convenience of your friends and 
foes in case a rumble breaks out.  <g>  

Out of curiosity, does everyone 
attending the game wear paint?  Sports 
of course is very much warfare 
conducted without deadly intent (well, 
mostly anyway).  I'm under the 
impression that for some fans, 
preparing to go to football games is 
very much akin to preparation for 
battle.  Wait, have I just said 
something obvious?

With paint on, skin color, which is 
one of the key markers for racial 
identification, could become a moot 
point.  Does this render toothless 
the original assertion that common 
cultural identity is of more 
importance than the racial one to 
Scots of Marley's persuasion?

With paint on, you could be 
green-with-purple-polka-dots 
and your fellow team fans would 
still identify with you.  This 
cracks me up on so many different 
levels!  <chortling madly>

David:
> Other indicators for the
> *particularly* observant might include 
> articles of clothing in the team
> colours, flags being waved, etc.
> 
> Finally, there are cultural
> indicators: shouts and gestures of 
> support or opposition, songs sung, and
> so on.

Yes <a-nodding> you're right - such 
markers may not be obvious anywhere else 
but they certainly would be at a football 
game.

Hey, I wonder if football fans jumping 
each other inspired the Skirmish of the 
Magical Mascots at QWC?

Petra chants: "30 - just 30!"
a
n  :)

__________________________________
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From psychic_serpent at yahoo.com  Thu May 22 19:09:16 2003
From: psychic_serpent at yahoo.com (psychic_serpent)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 19:09:16 -0000
Subject: book recs
In-Reply-To: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3FBC@teserver01.treat.net>
Message-ID: <baj78s+mhdo@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Coble, Katherine" 
<katherine.coble at c...> wrote:
> Lilahp:
> > Anyone else out there read Holes, too?

Yes!  My son and I just finished reading it together for part of his 
home-schooling.  My daughter was intrigued by the idea of the book, 
so she sat down to read it and finished in one day!  I wouldn't let 
my son see the film until we were done reading, though.  With the 
exception of very, very minor details, the film was wonderfully 
faithful (screenplay by the author himself) and had marvelous 
performances by the youngsters; my husband commented that none of 
them SEEMED to be acting, which is usually not the case in films 
with such a large and young ensemble cast.  The young actors who 
play Stanley and Zero are particularly fine.  

The adult actors were good, too, although my husband's comment about 
Dule Hill was that he simply seemed to be playing his "Charlie" role 
from "West Wing"--a decent guy who finds himself in the wrong place 
at the wrong time.  I thought he was very good, sweet and romantic 
in an understated way.  Sigourney Weaver adds class to what could 
have been a cartoonish role, and I very nearly didn't recognize 
Patricia Arquette.  Jon Voigt is very funny.  (That's probably the 
first time anyone's ever said that.)  It's just really well-done, 
and my son and I had some good discussions about the book.
  
Since the original poster mentioned being interested in fantasy 
books, I just finished reading Ursula K. LeGuin's "The Other Wind," 
which is a continuation of the Earthsea saga.  For the most part I 
thought it was good and evocative, although I might have benefitted 
from rereading some of the earlier Earthsea works to remind myself 
of some of the peculiarities of that world.  I was tickled to see 
that our family friend Michael Swanwick had a blurb on the back of 
the book! 

I'm now reading some non-fiction by my favorite architectural 
critic, Witold Ribcynski, "The Most Beautiful House in the World."  
I highly recommend everything he's written.  His book, "Home: The 
History of an Idea" is a fabulous read whether or not you think you 
have any interest in architecture.  You just might not look around 
your house and think of it in the same way again.

--Barb

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychic_Serpent
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb





From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Thu May 22 19:39:35 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 19:39:35 -0000
Subject: Greyness and Extreme Makeovers (WAS Greyness? )
In-Reply-To: <baj1l3+5moe@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <baj91n+fdhd@eGroups.com>

Anne wrote:

> > So now I'm wondering if this group is any different 
> > -- do you like/hate greying hair on women or 
> > yourself?

I am starting to get a few grey hairs sprinkled around in my black 
hair.  I have mixed feelings about this.  I feel cheated because no 
one on my mother's side has any grey hair, and since I look like 
her, I figured I was safe.  Coloring it would be time-consuming and 
expensive, I'm afraid.

On the other hand, I think long (shoulder length) grey hair is 
really unusual and can be striking.  It seems that most older women 
have short hair styles (is that a rule or something?).  And 
professionally, I think it would be helpful to look a bit more 
mature.  So I'll just go natural.  For now, I can just pull the 
little buggers out.


>Why is getting old so horrible, 
> anyway?  

I don't know.  It seems to me that if you take care of yourself and 
generally look good otherwise, a few grey hairs or wrinkles don't 
look bad.  

Did anyone catch that reality show "Extreme Makeovers?"  They take 
ordinary and often quite homely people and give them plastic 
surgery, hair, make-up and clothing.  You see ears pinned back, nose 
jobs, chin implants, eye lifts -- the whole bit.  And man, it looks 
like recovering from plastic surgery would be a total drag!

For some reason, I like to watch other people (emphasis on *other 
people*) do this.  The most interesting thing is that all of the 
women I have seen have received breast implants.  I would have 
expected them to really overdo it in terms of the sizes they select, 
but they don't.  They look nice with a little something added, which 
is the opposite of what I've seen in real life.  

Cindy -- wondering if anyone will be willing to admit to receiving 
breast implants, and noting that although she needs many things in 
life, breast implants are not one of them




From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Thu May 22 19:41:42 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 12:41:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Greyness? Was: Baldness, ugh, was Re: The perfectly shaped head & Pushing Thirty
In-Reply-To: <baiv74+418f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030522194142.47987.qmail@web21210.mail.yahoo.com>


--- annemehr wrote:
> So now I'm 
> wondering if this group is any different -- do
> you like/hate greying 
> hair on women or yourself?


Lynn:

Well, I've had a streak of grey hair since I was
about 20.  It's front/middle and has only spread
a bit in the last few years.  It's a pretty
silver as long as I use a shampoo for grey hair
once in a while since that strips the yellowing
out.  I used to have my hair highlighted so that
the grey blended in better but in the last 5 or 6
years have just left it alone.  I figure it's my
hair and who cares if others don't like it.  The
only problem I've ever had is when people see the
grey, see the age of my daughter and the decide
she's my granddaughter!

Lynn

=====
For the international news that's fit to print
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cnnworldnewsq-a

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Thu May 22 19:43:00 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 19:43:00 -0000
Subject: The Amazing Race 4!
Message-ID: <baj984+c40h@eGroups.com>

Hey, fellow "Amazing Race" fans!  The Amazing Race kicks off again 
on May 29.  It had been so long that I thought CBS had cancelled it.

Oh, this looks like a good group.  I checked out CBS.com, and it 
appears that they have a team of "NFL wives" and a married gay 
couple.  This is gonna be a good one!

Cindy -- betting that the NFL wives will be spoiled and won't do 
well 




From marl2580 at yahoo.co.uk  Thu May 22 21:34:47 2003
From: marl2580 at yahoo.co.uk (marl2580)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 21:34:47 -0000
Subject: Hair-razing!
In-Reply-To: <badktf+j9bv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bajfpn+h89s@eGroups.com>

 "charisjulia" wrote:

> I've got a friend who has one of the reddest heads of hair ever 
> possessed by man. In fact he looks exactly how I'd imagine 
Ron aged 
> c.20. It's unbelievable. It's also incredibly practical: enter an 
> amphitheatre throbbing with 300 people? Searching for your 
friends in 
> all the multitudes of students before you? No problem! Just 
look for 
> the guy with the red head. A veritable beacon. And it looks *
great*.

My brother has bright ginger hair, but unfortunately I live in 
Scotland which statistically has the highest proportion of red 
heads in the world (it's true - I'm one as well, but not ginger 
thank god). This means that when I am trying to find him 
amoung 300 people, I haven't got a hope in hell 'cause everyone 
else looks just like him!
Marley




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu May 22 23:24:31 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 23:24:31 -0000
Subject: Greyness and Extreme Makeovers (WAS Greyness? )
In-Reply-To: <baj91n+fdhd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bajm7f+10vg@eGroups.com>

Cindy wrote:

> Cindy -- noting that although she needs many things in 
> life, breast implants are not one of them

Another thing we have in common, then.

D




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu May 22 23:32:06 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 23:32:06 -0000
Subject: Identifying football fans
In-Reply-To: <20030522181533.24480.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bajmlm+d45u@eGroups.com>

Petra Pan wrote:

> Out of curiosity, does everyone 
> attending the game wear paint?  

I have to confess I haven't been to very many football matches, and 
I'm basing my observations on televised matches mostly.

No, not everyone.  I think the most spectacular displays are 
reserved for international matches.  (English and Scottish clubs 
play in separate leagues, so usually only ever play each other when 
drawn together in European competition.)

> Hey, I wonder if football fans jumping 
> each other inspired the Skirmish of the 
> Magical Mascots at QWC?

Yes, I think it quite likely.  Violence is not unknown among 
spectators of other sports in Britain, but is most commonly 
associated with football.

hence the expression: "Rugby, a game for ruffians played by 
gentlemen; football, a game for gentlemen played by ruffians."

David




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu May 22 23:34:57 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 23:34:57 -0000
Subject: First chapter of OOP?
Message-ID: <bajmr1+imcq@eGroups.com>

Dicentra passed this link on offlist.

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/hp_phoenix.html

Make of it what you will.

David




From heidit at netbox.com  Fri May 23 00:13:08 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 20:13:08 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] First chapter of OOP?
Message-ID: <mailman.48.1576049047.5361.hpfgu-otchatter@archive.hpfgu.org>

That site has, in the past, created many fake "news" stories and interviews, including a parody-interview of jkr. 

Make of that what you will. 
-----Original Message-----
From: "David" <dfrankiswork at netscape.net>
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 23:34:57 
To:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] First chapter of OOP?

Real-To:  "David" <dfrankiswork at netscape.net>

Dicentra passed this link on offlist.

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/hp_phoenix.html

Make of it what you will.

David



________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

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From glorificus21 at bigpond.com  Fri May 23 00:25:44 2003
From: glorificus21 at bigpond.com (glory)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 10:25:44 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] First chapter of OOP?
Message-ID: <00bf01c320c1$da28f4c0$cc37a4cb@fickwalker>

a first glance says fake. obviously wrong dedication and other obvious mistakes for some of the simplest things.


Glory
whose keyboard is completely busted


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Heidi Tandy 
  To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 10:13 AM
  Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] First chapter of OOP?


  That site has, in the past, created many fake "news" stories and interviews, including a parody-interview of jkr. 

  Make of that what you will. 
  -----Original Message-----
  From: "David" <dfrankiswork at netscape.net>
  Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 23:34:57 
  To:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] First chapter of OOP?

  Real-To:  "David" <dfrankiswork at netscape.net>

  Dicentra passed this link on offlist.

  http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/hp_phoenix.html

  Make of it what you will.

  David



  ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

  Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
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  ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

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From meboriqua at aol.com  Fri May 23 00:31:36 2003
From: meboriqua at aol.com (jenny_ravenclaw)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 00:31:36 -0000
Subject: Good Short Novels (was: book recs)
In-Reply-To: <ECB767884CB8464B9A382DB2E8BB39C8013E3FBC@teserver01.treat.net>
Message-ID: <bajq58+9g97@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Coble, Katherine" 
<katherine.coble at c...> wrote:

> Some of my favourites, across all genres:

> _Rachel's Holiday_  & _Last Chance Saloon_ Marian Keyes>

I think Marian Keyes is great.  My favorite would have to be 
_Watermelon_, though.

Cindy's comment about short novels being compelling got me thinking.  
One of my classes just finished reading _Of Mice and Men_ this 
morning, which is only 107 pages.  They loved it.  What other short 
novels can you all think of that are particularly good?  _The Old Man 
and the Sea_ comes to mind.

--jenny from ravenclaw ***************************************




From dradamsapple at yahoo.com  Fri May 23 00:48:26 2003
From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 00:48:26 -0000
Subject: First chapter of OOP?/reply and Sad news
Message-ID: <bajr4q+6e0i@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Heidi Tandy" <heidit at n...> 
wrote:

> That site has, in the past, created many fake "news" stories and 
interviews, including a parody-interview of jkr. 
> 
> Make of that what you will. 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "David" <dfrankiswork at n...>
> Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 23:34:57 
> To:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] First chapter of OOP?
> 
> Real-To:  "David" <dfrankiswork at n...>
> 
> Dicentra passed this link on offlist.
> 
> http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/hp_phoenix.html
> 
> Make of it what you will.
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 

Heidi,
 
Thanks for the clarification.  Today is not the day that I wanted to 
read that (although, I have to admit, I started and instantly stopped 
when it was obvious to me it was a fake.  At least I hope so.)

Some sad news today for our family.
My father-in-law passed away after a 35 year battle with Diabetes.
It is very sad, however the past two years have been a constant 
roller-coaster ride, and as anyone who has been in the same situation 
as me would probably agree, it was time.  From surgeries to 
infections to amputations, to losing control of his body, it was an 
awful thing for anyone to see, never mind go through.  Especially 
since his body stopped funcitoning, but his mind didn't.  

Anyhow, sorry for the rant, I guess I just needed to vent.

Here's hoping that you remember your loved ones this Memorial Day, 
both passed and still with you.

Anna . . .






From tammy at mauswerks.net  Fri May 23 01:18:06 2003
From: tammy at mauswerks.net (Tammy Rizzo)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 21:18:06 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] First chapter of OOP?
In-Reply-To: <bajmr1+imcq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3ECD3E8E.27939.258E4E1@localhost>

On 22 May 2003 at 23:34, David wrote:

> Dicentra passed this link on offlist.
> 
> http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/hp_phoenix.html
> 
> Make of it what you will.
> 
> David

Oh, for crying out loud.  That's so badly written it's hilarious!

***
Tammy
tammy at mauswerks.net





From trinity61us at yahoo.com  Fri May 23 03:35:15 2003
From: trinity61us at yahoo.com (alex fox)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 20:35:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Book reccomendations anyone?
In-Reply-To: <bagnre+h9hd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030523033515.52782.qmail@web14912.mail.yahoo.com>

George R.R. Martin's "Ice and Fire " series..."A Game Of Thrones", "A Clash Of Kings" and "A Storm Of Swords"... I cannot recommend these more highly! The best damn series I have ever laid eyes on! There are 2 more coming in the series. Ask anybody who has read them..they will go on for hours about how great these books are! And they will not be wrong!
 
Alex Fox

"Cindy C." <cindysphynx at comcast.net> wrote:
Shanna wrote:

> What are you all reading right now?  

Just finished "Seabiscuit" and loved it.  I had put it off for over 
a year because, well . . . it's about horse racing.  It really was 
very good.

Go, Funnycide!

Cindy -- working on "Animal Farm" right now, which shouldn't take 
long


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From annemehr at yahoo.com  Fri May 23 04:40:11 2003
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 04:40:11 -0000
Subject: Identifying football fans
In-Reply-To: <bajmlm+d45u@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bak8nb+8ahb@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "David" <dfrankiswork at n...> 
wrote:
> Petra Pan wrote:

> > Hey, I wonder if football fans jumping 
> > each other inspired the Skirmish of the 
> > Magical Mascots at QWC?
> 
> Yes, I think it quite likely.  Violence is not unknown among 
> spectators of other sports in Britain, but is most commonly 
> associated with football.
> 
> hence the expression: "Rugby, a game for ruffians played by 
> gentlemen; football, a game for gentlemen played by ruffians."
> 
> David

Well, if you had SEATS instead of everybody STANDING, I bet people 
would be more relaxed and not fight as much (well, maybe not, but 
climbing over all those seat backs might slow them down a bit).

Speaking of violence in sports, in North America you can say: "I went 
to the fights, and a hockey game broke out!"

Annemehr




From KAREN-GARY at worldnet.att.net  Fri May 23 06:58:50 2003
From: KAREN-GARY at worldnet.att.net (Gary Sapp & Karen J.S.)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 06:58:50 -0000
Subject: Identifying football fans
In-Reply-To: <bak8nb+8ahb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bakgra+l4rv@eGroups.com>

Oh here we go, please don't trot that old chesnut out about how
violent hockey is.  The press loves to show fights but they are not as
common as that myth would have you believe.

There was a funny scene with a mascot and a coach this year however. 
The Calgary Flames has a funny dog mascot with a long tongue.  He was
leaning over the glass hassling the coach of another team (can't
remember which one at the moment) and the coach reached up and tugged
on the tongue and it came off!  Guess it could compare with the Medi
Wizard kicking Mustafa in the shins in GoF

Karen



--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...>
wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "David" <dfrankiswork at n...> 
> wrote:
> > Petra Pan wrote:
> 
> > > Hey, I wonder if football fans jumping 
> > > each other inspired the Skirmish of the 
> > > Magical Mascots at QWC?
> > 
> > Yes, I think it quite likely.  Violence is not unknown among 
> > spectators of other sports in Britain, but is most commonly 
> > associated with football.
> > 
snip
> 
> Speaking of violence in sports, in North America you can say: "I
went 
> to the fights, and a hockey game broke out!"
> 
> Annemehr




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri May 23 08:07:35 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 08:07:35 -0000
Subject: Identifying football fans
In-Reply-To: <bak8nb+8ahb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bakks7+cf9b@eGroups.com>

Annemehr wrote:

> Well, if you had SEATS instead of everybody STANDING, I bet people 
> would be more relaxed and not fight as much (well, maybe not, but 
> climbing over all those seat backs might slow them down a bit).

Actually, since a series of disasters in the eighties, it has been 
the law for some years now that stadiums have to be all-seater.

As with your hockey joke, there are fans who go purely in order to 
fight.  Because of the measures the police take to prevent them, 
they tend to be highly organised about it and lay their plans on the 
internet etc.

David




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Fri May 23 12:10:28 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 08:10:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Greyness? Was: Baldness, ugh, was Re: The perfectly shaped head & Pushing Thirty
In-Reply-To: <20030522194142.47987.qmail@web21210.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030523121028.64685.qmail@web41111.mail.yahoo.com>

> --- annemehr wrote:
> > So now I'm 
> > wondering if this group is any different -- do
> > you like/hate greying 
> > hair on women or yourself?
> 
> 
> Lynn:
> 
> Well, I've had a streak of grey hair since I was
> about 20.  It's front/middle and has only spread
> a bit in the last few years.  It's a pretty
> silver as long as I use a shampoo for grey hair
> once in a while since that strips the yellowing
> out.  I used to have my hair highlighted so that
> the grey blended in better but in the last 5 or 6
> years have just left it alone.  I figure it's my
> hair and who cares if others don't like it.  The
> only problem I've ever had is when people see the
> grey, see the age of my daughter and the decide
> she's my granddaughter!

Sheryll:

I've been going grey since I was 21. Genetics. *sigh*
My mother started going grey at 18 and both her
sisters at 16. We don't know about my sister, as she's
been colouring her hair since she was about 16. 

I left the grey alone until I was about 30, then
decided I'd had about enough of it. It's now a nice
reddish-brown colour. :) Oddly enough, my daughter
dyes her hair about the same colour as I do. She was
had lovely blond hair until about the age of 12 when
it started to turn a mousy brown. She found that
entirely too boring and pushed for permission to dye
it jet black. When we vetoed that (and purple), she
waited a few years and opted for the same colour as
mine. 

My mother dyes her hair as well, but not completely.
She does what the hairdresser calls "presentation",
which only covers part of the grey. It looks very nice
and if your not close up her hair just looks like it's
a nice light brown. Close up you can tell it's light
brown with a great deal of grey.

My father didn't start going grey until he was
somewhere around 50, iirc. He'll be 68 this year and I
don't see any signs of thinning hair, either. *sigh*

Loved the before and after pics of Chris, Jen. Will
try to find a family pic and post it in the files
section here after I send this. That way y'all can see
Andy's lovely bald head. :-D

Sheryll

=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri May 23 14:28:56 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 14:28:56 -0000
Subject: Greyness? Was: Baldness, ugh, was Re: The perfectly shaped head & Pushing Thirty
Message-ID: <balb78+ja0e@eGroups.com>

Heidi Tandy wrote:

>  I also do think that having grey hair at a really young age, like 
I did, is a bit unprofessional - although in your 30s I think that 
becomes less of an issue - or once you have kids. 

I don't know whether to be horrified, saddened or frightened.

Somebody reassure me that you are not discriminated against in the 
workplace in the USA just because you don't pour all your money into 
every passing fad.

David




From selene at earthlink.net  Fri May 23 15:12:56 2003
From: selene at earthlink.net (Susan Fox-Davis)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 08:12:56 -0700
Subject: Greyness? Was: Baldness, ugh, was Re: The perfectly shaped head &
Message-ID: <3ECE3A78.777E07CE@earthlink.net>

David wrote:

>> I also do think that having grey hair at a really young age, like
>>I did, is a bit unprofessional - although in your 30s I think that
>>becomes less of an issue - or once you have kids.

>I don't know whether to be horrified, saddened or frightened.
>
>Somebody reassure me that you are not discriminated against in the
>workplace in the USA just because you don't pour all your money into
>every passing fad.

Sadly, not only can I not tell you such a lie but tell you that my
handsome, steel-gray-haired husband, aged 49, has not worked
full time in about 4 years despite his keeping up with all the latest
advances in computer graphics.  My longtime nepotism <g>
plus his intermittant contract work keeps the roof over our heads
but this is NOT what we had in mind for this stage in our lives.

Susan Fox-Davis, Los Angeles




From prongs at marauders-map.net  Fri May 23 15:54:24 2003
From: prongs at marauders-map.net (Silver Stag)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 11:54:24 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] First chapter of OOP?
References: <bajmr1+imcq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <011001c32143$95a1a4f0$0201a8c0@bettysue>

I just read it. No way it's real; it's set in the summer after Harry's fifth
year.  Harry's completely OOC.  That's all I'm going to say here for now.
Betty AKA Silver Stag

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David" <dfrankiswork at netscape.net>
To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 7:34 PM
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] First chapter of OOP?


> Dicentra passed this link on offlist.
>
> http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/hp_phoenix.html
>
> Make of it what you will.
>
> David
>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material
from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- 
MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
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> ____________________________________________________________
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>





From olivierfouquet2000 at yahoo.fr  Fri May 23 16:00:22 2003
From: olivierfouquet2000 at yahoo.fr (olivierfouquet2000)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 16:00:22 -0000
Subject: Release party in Germany
Message-ID: <balgim+lu17@eGroups.com>

Hi all,

Does any of you have heard about release party or day of publication for OOP in 
Germany ? I checked the Leaky Cauldron FAQ and concluded that it will not be selled 
before at least one in the morning local time but it is not clear if it will be avalaible 
June 21st in the morning. I sure hope I will be reading it on June 21st.

Olivier, who has alreday 3 pre-ordered copies shipping to different adresses so is 
sure he will finally get one 




From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Fri May 23 16:32:34 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 16:32:34 -0000
Subject: Greyness? 
In-Reply-To: <3ECE3A78.777E07CE@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <balif2+75hs@eGroups.com>

David wrote:

>I don't know whether to be horrified, saddened or frightened.

Be horrified.

>Somebody reassure me that you are not discriminated against in the
>workplace in the USA just because you don't pour all your money into
>every passing fad.

I don't know about "every passing fad," but there is quite a lot of 
age discrimination in the U.S.  It is absolutely rampant and 
difficult to combat, as I understand it.  People assume that if you 
are 40 (or at least look over 40) that you are set in your ways.  
That you can't work for someone younger.  Blah, blah, blah.

I had a conversation with a plastic surgeon a few months back (no, I 
am not getting breast implants), and he said that many of his 
patients want a face lift because people keep asking them if they 
are tired.  They start to worry that they'll be seen as old in their 
workplace, among other things.

Susan wrote:

> Sadly, not only can I not tell you such a lie but tell you that my
> handsome, steel-gray-haired husband, aged 49, has not worked
> full time in about 4 years despite his keeping up with all the 
>latest advances in computer graphics.  

That sounds just awful, Susan.  It's very unsettling and stressful 
to be unable to get the job you want and need because of someone's 
perception about something like your age that you can't change if 
you wanted to.  It's frustrating, because your husband could 
probably outperform many of the whippersnappers who are getting the 
jobs.

Hang in there!

Cindy -- who has similar concerns about returning to the job market 
at 40+




From smotgreg at hotmail.com  Fri May 23 17:06:22 2003
From: smotgreg at hotmail.com (sandon96)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 17:06:22 -0000
Subject: Greyness? Was: Baldness, ugh, was Re: The perfectly shaped head & Pushing Thirty
In-Reply-To: <20030523121028.64685.qmail@web41111.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <balkee+kplq@eGroups.com>

I always prided myself on my long blonde/brown/reddish locks until two 
months before my wedding (when I was 25), a kind(?) collegue infomed me 
after a staff meeting that I had an awful lot of grey hair on the back 
of my head. Ran screaming to the nearest salon to color it. I guess 
those weren't blonde hairs after all. Didn't think much of my 
appearance after that until I hit thirty-one, (I had my husband and 
taught six to eight year olds - who cared what I looked like?) had my 
first baby, and looked into the mirror in horror six months after his 
birth to view frump mom. I wear more makeup and maintain my hair more 
now than I ever did as a professional. It helps to know after puking my 
guts out (pg with #2 - how did that happen so quickly?) that I still 
look good (wipes running mascara away with smile).

And about fake boobs - wierd, man. A woman in my dance class a few 
years ago had cheek implants, a chemical peel, and a boob job. Those 
boobs did not move an inch when she danced. She even let us touch them 
(admit it - you would be curious, too) and it felt so unnatural - like 
wet cement packed into a balloon. The chemical peel left her face an 
unnatural brightness and one cheek implant was too high so it 
interfered with her eye rolling. She was so battered and bruised after 
the surgery, too. No thank you - labor and delivery are bad enough!

Stacie (who celebrated Nick's first birthday Sunday)





From tahewitt at yahoo.com  Fri May 23 17:37:34 2003
From: tahewitt at yahoo.com (Tyler Hewitt)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 10:37:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What to see in Britain
In-Reply-To: <1053700198.4903.26999.m11@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030523173734.75894.qmail@web14201.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi everyone
Sorry about the totally HP-free post, but oh well. 
My partner and I are going to Britain in June, and I'm
looking for sugestions on what to see. I've been
before, but it was over 20 years ago. My partner has
never been. We're going to concentrate on London, I
have a friend that lives in the suburbs.  We're also
planning some day trips or a couple of nights
elsewhere. We're thinking of going to York, and maybe
Edinburgh, although that could change.

So, any suggestions? We're looking for the 'don't miss
this' touristy places, but also some more funky, off
the beaten path type of places. Doesn't have to be
Harry Potter related, but don't rule that out. I'm not
sure yet if we'll be there on June 21st, so if you
know of any intersting OoP release events, pass those
along as well.

Feel free to respond to this off list, and thanks for
your help!

Tyler

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com



From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Fri May 23 17:40:43 2003
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 17:40:43 -0000
Subject: Greyness?
In-Reply-To: <balif2+75hs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <balmer+uoe3@eGroups.com>

Cindy wrote in response to David's horror at 
discrimination in US workplaces:

> People assume that if you are 40 (or at least 
> look over 40) that you are set in your ways.  
> That you can't work for someone younger.  Blah, 
> blah, blah.

Well, that's what the *tell* people (and you know 
it's bad when they actually tell people something 
like that).  From my experience (as a young person 
hired instead of an older person), it's mostly 
just a matter of money.  Older people have a 
"higher standard of living" they need to maintain 
and children to support, while young kids fresh 
out of college can live in studio apartments with 
2 roommates and eat ramen and Mac 'n' Cheese from 
a box.  You wouldn't believe how much I've heard!  
As a young adjunct faculty at the local community 
college (where my husband now has tenure), 
I heard lots of gossip about how older faculty 
members are given "golden handshakes" to get them 
to retire so that they can hire young, 
unexperienced part-timers that they can pay half 
as much.  Since the educational community at 
least (I would assume this applies to other areas 
as well) pays on a strictly experience-based 
scale which guarantees a minimal raise for every 
step of the scale (and there are something like 
25 steps), someone just starting out is MUCH less 
expensive to fund than an old-timer.

Of course, I can't use this to directly 
corroborate any hirings... it's all legal and 
stuff on the surface.  But if you think about it, 
I was hired with no Master's degree to teach 
basic skills - but the "non-academic" subjects, 
like computer labs and reading labs and stuff.  
When the more senior instructors began to demand 
more money, they mysteriously left for "better 
jobs" and instead of hiring more qualified 
instructors, they just shunted ME into positions 
I'd NEVER be hired for!  I suddenly became the 
full-fledged English teacher.  Oh sure, I was 
able to teach it... it was basic skills after 
all, and I had a degree in linguistics and the 
English language.  However, all academic 
instructors were *required* to possess a M.A. in 
a related subject in order to teach it.  Not me.  
I also got pushed into the Personal Finance 
position (which on paper required a lot more 
workplace experience than I possessed, whether or 
not the actual class material needed it).  At the 
end, I was teaching English, Personal Finance, a 
reading lab, a writing lab, a math lab and a 
computer lab.  I had the most classes of anyone 
in the program.  I had more classtime than my 
HUSBAND, who is a full-time tenured professor!!!  
And yet, I made 1/3 of the money.

So I was a bargain for the college while I worked 
there.  And as I was just a part-timer, I didn't 
get *anything* when I decided to take time off 
for the baby.  My ex-boss just tried to persuade 
my husband to make me come back.  She'd never 
even talk to me personally.  My last day of work 
(and her students' graduation day), she was in 
Los Angeles working out a problem with her Visa 
so she could travel to Brazil a month later.

So you could say I'm a little disillusioned with 
the workplace in general.  Maybe that's why I'm 
so reluctant to go back to work even though I'm 
stressed out so much at home.

-Jen

P.S.  Thank you, everyone, who sent me happy 
birthday wishes.  I had a pretty good day - but 
I think that once my kids get old enough to 
understand that the word "birthday" doesn't mean 
presents for *them* it'll get better. ;) 




From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Fri May 23 18:31:12 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 11:31:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Greyness?
In-Reply-To: <balmer+uoe3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030523183112.45866.qmail@web21202.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Jennifer wrote:
> From my experience (as a young
> person 
> hired instead of an older person), it's mostly 
> just a matter of money. 
> P.S.  but I think that once my kids get old
enough to 
> understand that the word "birthday" doesn't
> mean 
> presents for *them* it'll get better. ;) 


Lynn:

During my work in the labor law arena, I found
the most discrimination in two areas, age and
looks.  As was stated, that's not what they tell
you but that's really what it comes down to. 
With age you do have the money matter and
companies know that their clients prefer 'easy on
the eye' people around them and will judge the
company based on their employees.  I was turned
down for a secretarial job because, according to
them, I didn't have the correct college degree. 
Off the record, it was admitted that I had too
much experience and they would have to pay me
more than some kid who just graduated college
with no experience.  I was 'encouraged' to wear
suits rather than a nice skirt and blouse or
dress as our clients would respond better to my
working with them.

>From all I've seen, it's not better in other
places as well.  In the Netherlands, from what I
understand, pay is based on age and not on
experience so it's hard for older people to get
jobs.  People having to retire from the Navy at
the age of 50 or 55 have a hard time finding work
due to that.  I recently saw a talk show (I think
the guy's name is Kilroy?) regarding age
discrimination in England, particularly in the IT
field.

Cindy, I know what you mean about reentering the
workplace at 40+.  I'll be 48 when I reenter the
workplace in the US after having been out of it
for 8 years.  I'm not too optimistic.  I'm hoping
I can find at least some part-time work while
living in the UK to get back in the swing of
things.

Lynn
(who's daughter knows that the word birthday
doesn't necessarily mean presents for her but
still thinks any present should be opened by her)

=====
For the international news that's fit to print
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cnnworldnewsq-a

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com



From hypercolor99 at hotmail.com  Fri May 23 18:40:08 2003
From: hypercolor99 at hotmail.com (alice_loves_cats)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 18:40:08 -0000
Subject: Book reccomendations anyone?
In-Reply-To: <Law11-OE40vOSQeSOzN00018a1d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <balpu8+3h1i@eGroups.com>

Shanna wrote:

> What are you all reading right now?

At the moment, I reading Beregi Tamas: Egyetleneim, but I really doubt
you're going to read this on my recommendation - it's in Hungarian.

But some of my favourites:

Try Monica Dickens, especially "Kate and Emma" and "One Pair Of Hands".

I'm also very much a Jane Austen person (Lynn, I KNEW you were one
too! I knew after reading about 5 of your mails - all strictly related
to HP... strange, isn't it? :-) ), so "Pride and Prejudice" and "Emma"
would be next.

My absolute favourite is "I Never Prosmised You A Rose Garden", by
Joanne Greenberg (or Hannah Green, that was her pseudonym). 

No horror, unfortunately... :-)

Love, Alice




From dicentra at xmission.com  Fri May 23 18:42:01 2003
From: dicentra at xmission.com (Dicentra spectabilis)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 18:42:01 -0000
Subject: First chapter of OOP?
In-Reply-To: <bajmr1+imcq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <balq1p+mpmp@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "David" <dfrankiswork at n...> wrote:
> Dicentra passed this link on offlist.
> 
> http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/hp_phoenix.html
> 
> Make of it what you will.
> 
Ok, folks.  Of course it's a fake.  Fake fake fake fake fake.  It's
also supposed to be a joke.  This guy isn't trying to fool a soul. 
It's supposed to be *funny*.  

--Dicentra, who is wondering just how esoteric her sense of humor is
anyway




From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Fri May 23 19:13:33 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 12:13:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] What to see in Britain
In-Reply-To: <20030523173734.75894.qmail@web14201.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030523191333.55296.qmail@web21202.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Tyler wrote:
> My partner and I are going to Britain in June,
> and I'm
> looking for sugestions on what to see.

Lynn:

Here are some suggestions from my visits to
London:

1.  Tower of London.  I scheduled half a day the
first time and ended up going back for another
half day.  You can bring a picnic lunch in with
you.  Definitely take the tour with a Beefeater
for the extra stories.  I now suggest to everyone
that they go early, take a lunch and that way
they have enough time and if they don't end up
spending as much time as I eventually did, they
can use that time to see other things in the
area, such as my 7th suggestion.

2.  National Gallery.  I would probably rate this
as my second favorite museum, the Louvre being
the first.  Again, I just didn't schedule enough
time for it even though I thought 4 hours would
be enough.  And, of course, it's right at
Trafalga Square.

3.  Harrod's, particularly the Food Court. 

4.  Picadilly Circus.  What a great place to
wander around.  Lots of little shops to explore
as you walk through the theater district.

5. Westminister Abbey.  They used to allow
cameras on Wednesday nights.  If you want to take
pictures, it's something to check out.  

6.  Double-decker bus tour which allows you to
get on and off.  I liked this for all those
things I wanted to see but didn't necessarily
want to spend a lot of time checking out.  It can
also give you an idea of what you might want to
go back to and spend more time doing.  Also, if
you get a good tour operator, you find out some
interesting facts you don't read in travel
guides.

7.  London Dungeon.  I found it facinating but
then, I'm a bit strange. 

8.  The Theater.  Definitely see a play while
you're there. 

I wasn't impressed with Buckinham Palace and
never bothered to go see a changing of the guard.
 However, it is a nice walk from Victoria Station
to there and then over to the House of Parliment
which is impressive.

Enjoy your visit!

Lynn



=====
For the international news that's fit to print
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cnnworldnewsq-a

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com



From hphgrwlca at yahoo.com  Fri May 23 23:10:20 2003
From: hphgrwlca at yahoo.com (hphgrwlca)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 23:10:20 -0000
Subject: First chapter of OOP?
Message-ID: <bam9os+uh8r@eGroups.com>

David wrote:

Dicentra passed this link on offlist.

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/hp_phoenix.html

Make of it what you will.

Me:

Ha ha!  This is so horribly written that I almost can't stand it.  
The words don't flow and it's full of unimportant details that JKR 
would never have used.

Whoever wrote this, give it up!  Your bluff has been called!

Christine




From trisha.masen at verizon.net  Sat May 24 02:53:25 2003
From: trisha.masen at verizon.net (Trisha Masen)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 22:53:25 -0400
Subject: What to see in Britain
References: <1053743330.657.81334.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c3219f$a60d9310$0100a8c0@s0023453270>

--- Tyler wrote:
> My partner and I are going to Britain in June,
> and I'm
> looking for sugestions on what to see.

Lynn:
Here are some suggestions from my visits to
London:

1.  Tower of London.  I scheduled half a day the
first time and ended up going back for another
half day.  You can bring a picnic lunch in with
you.  Definitely take the tour with a Beefeater
for the extra stories.  I now suggest to everyone
that they go early, take a lunch and that way
they have enough time and if they don't end up
spending as much time as I eventually did, they
can use that time to see other things in the
area, such as my 7th suggestion.

2.  National Gallery.  I would probably rate this
as my second favorite museum, the Louvre being
the first.  Again, I just didn't schedule enough
time for it even though I thought 4 hours would
be enough.  And, of course, it's right at
Trafalga Square.

3.  Harrod's, particularly the Food Court. 

4.  Picadilly Circus.  What a great place to
wander around.  Lots of little shops to explore
as you walk through the theater district.

5. Westminister Abbey.  They used to allow
cameras on Wednesday nights.  If you want to take
pictures, it's something to check out.  

6.  Double-decker bus tour which allows you to
get on and off.  I liked this for all those
things I wanted to see but didn't necessarily
want to spend a lot of time checking out.  It can
also give you an idea of what you might want to
go back to and spend more time doing.  Also, if
you get a good tour operator, you find out some
interesting facts you don't read in travel
guides.

7.  London Dungeon.  I found it facinating but
then, I'm a bit strange. 

8.  The Theater.  Definitely see a play while
you're there. 

I wasn't impressed with Buckinham Palace and
never bothered to go see a changing of the guard.
 However, it is a nice walk from Victoria Station
to there and then over to the House of Parliment
which is impressive.

===========
Me (Trisha):
I've been twice now and, Anglophile that I am, I have loved it.  I agree wholeheartedly on visiting the Tower of London.  When I went the first time, I had only a day of sightseeing available and chose a tour company (like Lynn mentioned in recommendation #6) where I could get on and off the bus.  Rode it to the Tower and wished I could have stayed all day.

Hubby and I did go to Harrod's but I wasn't as impressed as I suppose I should have been.  I guess it wasn't thrilling enough (or different enough) for my jaded East Coast eyes.

Piccadilly Circus is just a madhouse.  I liked it :)  Walk up Regent Street.  There is a store called Fortnum & Mason that has a wonderful food area (well, they have delicious creams that I must buy).  Almost across the street is one of the world's biggest toy stores, Hamley's.  During my second visit, this is where we had to take our 3-year-old daughter.

London Dungeon *was* quite interesting.  Gruesomely fascinating, actually :)

I have pictures and info about both trips on my website, if you'd like to take a look:
March 2001:
http://www.trishamasen.net/vacation/2001/london.htm
Nov/Dec 2002:
http://www.trishamasen.net/vacation/2002/london.htm

If you're going outside London, the White Cliffs of Dover are only about a two hour drive away.  I would have loved to tour Dover Castle, but we arrived too late in the day.  They have a whole bunch of stuff about how the Castle was used during WWII.

Hope that helps!
~Trisha Masen~



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From ladilyndi at yahoo.com  Sat May 24 08:09:56 2003
From: ladilyndi at yahoo.com (Ladi lyndi)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 01:09:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: What to see in Britain
In-Reply-To: <001c01c3219f$a60d9310$0100a8c0@s0023453270>
Message-ID: <20030524080956.12073.qmail@web21206.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Trisha wrote:
> Hubby and I did go to Harrod's but I wasn't as
> impressed as I suppose I should have been.  I
> guess it wasn't thrilling enough (or different
> enough) for my jaded East Coast eyes.
> 
> There is a store
> called Fortnum & Mason that has a wonderful
> food area (well, they have delicious creams
> that I must buy).  Almost across the street is
> one of the world's biggest toy stores,
> Hamley's.  During my second visit, this is
> where we had to take our 3-year-old daughter.


Lynn:

I agree, most of Harrod's is just a big
department store and rather boring, besides being
very expensive.  I did find the food court there
better than Fortnum & Mason but perhaps I should
say that I always visited London during the
Christmas season.  I would go for the
Thanksgiving holiday so the basement of Harrod's
was wonderful with all the Christmas stuff. 
However, Fortnum & Mason's did have the best
Christmas ornaments IMHO.  I would get at least
one new one every year and often gave those as
part of Christmas presents.

Boy do I agree about Hamley's.  I like it better
than FAO Schwartz and we do intend to take our
daughter there next week when we're in London. 
The Christmas windows were always fantastic -
when you could get close enough to see them that
is.  LOL  They also have a lot of off-beat things
on the first floor which are neat.  Again, I got
some great Christmas things there, including
flashing wreath earrings.

Oh, and if you or someone you know loves tea,
bring back as much as you like.  Tea is not
subject to customs taxes, a holdover from the
Boston Tea Party I presume.  LOL

Lynn

=====
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cnnworldnewsq-a

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From prongs at marauders-map.net  Sat May 24 13:20:01 2003
From: prongs at marauders-map.net (Silver Stag)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 09:20:01 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Book reccomendations anyone?
References: <balpu8+3h1i@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <00e901c321f7$32e62c50$0201a8c0@bettysue>

I'm reading lots of Star Trek and Star Wars.
SS
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "alice_loves_cats" <hypercolor99 at hotmail.com>
To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 2:40 PM
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Book reccomendations anyone?


> Shanna wrote:
>
> > What are you all reading right now?
>
> At the moment, I reading Beregi Tamas: Egyetleneim, but I really doubt
> you're going to read this on my recommendation - it's in Hungarian.
>
> But some of my favourites:
>
> Try Monica Dickens, especially "Kate and Emma" and "One Pair Of Hands".
>
> I'm also very much a Jane Austen person (Lynn, I KNEW you were one
> too! I knew after reading about 5 of your mails - all strictly related
> to HP... strange, isn't it? :-) ), so "Pride and Prejudice" and "Emma"
> would be next.
>
> My absolute favourite is "I Never Prosmised You A Rose Garden", by
> Joanne Greenberg (or Hannah Green, that was her pseudonym).
>
> No horror, unfortunately... :-)
>
> Love, Alice
>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material
from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- 
MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
> Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>





From slstich at hotmail.com  Sat May 24 14:50:49 2003
From: slstich at hotmail.com (shanna)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 09:50:49 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Book reccomendations anyone?
References: <balpu8+3h1i@eGroups.com> <00e901c321f7$32e62c50$0201a8c0@bettysue>
Message-ID: <Law11-OE53JshIQXG4D0001e75f@hotmail.com>

I'm reading lots of Star Trek and Star Wars. 

Star Trek isn't too bad.  I recently, well a few months ago anyway, read some thigns by Peter David, and enjoyed them very much!  Especially his New Frontier series!
Shanna


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net  Sat May 24 16:24:09 2003
From: anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net (Anne)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 16:24:09 -0000
Subject: Questions for our UK HPphiles
Message-ID: <bao6b9+gch1@eGroups.com>

Hi all, I'm just getting into writing my own HP fan fics (after 
reading a great many by other HP fans) and would appreciate help on a 
few details. First, the word PUDDING. In the U.S. it usually applies 
to a specific type of food, which can be eaten as a dessert or a 
snack. Does "pudding" just mean "pudding" in Britain, or does it 
mean "any kind of dessert-type dish eaten after the main evening 
meal"? 

Second, are there "generic" phone numbers in Britain? Here in the US, 
the "generic" telephone exchange is 555 (so no phone number starting 
with 555 is identifiable to any specific person because the only 
phone number that starts with 555 in the US is 555-1212, which 
is "information" for each area code). Did that make sense? What, if 
anything, is the generic British equivalent of 555? I admit to being 
totally clueless about UK phone numbers.

Please feel free to respond off the list rather than cluttering it up 
with replies.

Anne U
(who figured 867-5309 might fall on deaf ears in an HP fan fic)




From smotgreg at hotmail.com  Sat May 24 16:32:40 2003
From: smotgreg at hotmail.com (sandon96)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 16:32:40 -0000
Subject: What to see in Britain
In-Reply-To: <001c01c3219f$a60d9310$0100a8c0@s0023453270>
Message-ID: <bao6r8+l0i1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Trisha Masen" <
trisha.masen at v...> wrote:
> --- Tyler wrote:
> > My partner and I are going to Britain in June,
> > and I'm
> > looking for sugestions on what to see.
> 

It's been over 10 years since I've been to London, but all the places 
Lynn mentioned are still fresh in my mind. I also found fascinating the 
Museum of London - a concentrated collection on this wonderful city. 
Once I got over the thrill of riding the tubes (ok, I'm from a small 
town and have never been to New York), I realized how walkable London 
is. I spent a day walking through the entire city. I think it took 
about 4 hours. Other places worth mentioning:

1. The Theater District
2. Covent Gardens
3. Windsor Castle - I found this to be the most "romantic" feeling of 
all the castles I visited around the London area
4. I love to garden, so all the parks and gardens are a feast to the 
eyes. Traveling in June you'll be able to see lots and lots of roses. I 
loved wandered through the mews and other nooks and crannies to see the 
creative gardens that the Londoners have. Many of the parks also had 
open air concerts and plays at night. Lovely, lovely.
5. In the gardening mind, go see Kew Gardens
6. Outside of London, but easy train trip - Bath

There are also self guided/guided walking tours all over the town. I 
don't know who makes the maps as they were available at the college I 
was attending.

Stacie





From hp at plum.cream.org  Sat May 24 17:57:54 2003
From: hp at plum.cream.org (GulPlum)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 18:57:54 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Questions for our UK HPphiles
In-Reply-To: <bao6b9+gch1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20030524174625.009a03c0@plum.cream.org>

At 17:24 24/05/03 , Anne wrote:
>Hi all, I'm just getting into writing my own HP fan fics (after
>reading a great many by other HP fans) and would appreciate help on a
>few details. First, the word PUDDING. In the U.S. it usually applies
>to a specific type of food, which can be eaten as a dessert or a
>snack. Does "pudding" just mean "pudding" in Britain, or does it
>mean "any kind of dessert-type dish eaten after the main evening
>meal"?

Actually, it means both. Usage can be [something] pudding (not all of which 
are desserts), but without a qualifier, it basically means the same as 
"dessert".

So, e.g. "Do you want pudding?" or "I'm not a pudding person" refer to an 
offer of, or general dislike for, dessert dishes. But "black pudding" is 
what some cultures refer to as "blood sausage", or there's "pease pudding" 
and several others which aren't desserts, or "rice pudding", which is. 
(it's all to do with the etymology of the word)

>Second, are there "generic" phone numbers in Britain? Here in the US,
>the "generic" telephone exchange is 555 (so no phone number starting
>with 555 is identifiable to any specific person because the only
>phone number that starts with 555 in the US is 555-1212, which
>is "information" for each area code). Did that make sense? What, if
>anything, is the generic British equivalent of 555? I admit to being
>totally clueless about UK phone numbers.

The British telephone system is entirely different. Bear in mind that we 
are *much* more densely populated than the USA, and thus a different 
approach is required.

Phone numbers are based on area/town code plus local number. The area code 
is from three to five digits starting with 0, and the local number is 
between six to eight numbers (although the vast majority of the country has 
a seven-digit local number; eight-digit numbers only appear in London). In 
the case of seven-digit numbers, the first three digits are the "exchange 
code", from which you can generally determine a single telephone exchange 
(this isn't strictly the case any more due to deregulation and number 
portability).

Common area codes:

London: 020 (plus eight digits, of which the first is either 7 for central 
London or 8 otherwise).

Birmingham: 0121 (plus seven digits)

Oxford: 01865 (plus either six or seven digits)

Calls from outside those cities requite the full number (including area 
code) to be dialled; calls from within that area do not need the area code. 
So, for instance, calling the House of Commons from London, you dial 7219 
3000. If you're dialling from, say, Oxford, you dial 020 7219 3000.

An interesting extension on your 555 1212 example: until the advent of the 
emergency call system (999 in the UK, 911 in the US), you could get through 
to your local police station by dialling the local exchange number plus 
1212 (most police stations' main number still ends 1212, although not every 
exchange code plus 121 will get through to the police - my sister had a *** 
1212 number and regularly had calls in the middle of the night destined for 
the police station which was around the corner from her home, but came 
under a different telephone exchange).

Furthermore, there are special "area" codes which are for special systems 
and are area-independent. Examples:
076 (plus seven digits): pagers
077*(*), 078*(*), 079*(*) (plus six digits) cell phones
0800: "free" calls (the equivalent of 800 numbers in the USA)
0844/0871 (plus seven digits) Internet dialup numbers

Numbers starting 09 (plus six to nine digits) are "premium rate" numbers, 
such as adult chat lines.

Back to the question, though: there isn't any kind of reserved number used 
for fictional purposes. British fiction (books, movies, TV) will either use 
a real number if appropriate, or not include an area code. The number 
itself will probably be valid, and nobody can fault the producer/writer if 
someone is stupid enough to try to call a number without an area code.

You don't say who is calling whom in your fic, so further details would be 
required for any more specific advice. If it's the Dursleys' number you're 
trying to invent, you can make up any seven-digit number you want. Surrey 
is HUGE and comprises several area codes. It all depends on whereabouts in 
Surrey you want Little Whinging to be (I like to imagine that it's 
somewhere around Haslemere, which is about as far as you can get in Surrey 
from London - it has an area code 01428).

If you have any more questions, please feel free to ask...

--
GulPlum AKA Richard, probably offering more information than was strictly 
necessary :-)




From hypercolor99 at hotmail.com  Sat May 24 18:27:07 2003
From: hypercolor99 at hotmail.com (alice_loves_cats)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 18:27:07 -0000
Subject: Questions for our UK HPphiles
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20030524174625.009a03c0@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <baodhr+8fut@eGroups.com>

<<<GulPlum's long post on British phone numbers>>>

Richard, that was immensly helpful, and I wasn't even the one to ask.
I frequently have problems with British phone numbers, expecially
since they've been changed at least twice during the past ten years.
The system is also rather less standardized than than the Hungarian
that I'm used to (of course, having a population of a mere 10 million
makes things easier - area codes are ALWAYS 2-digit codes, and numbers
ALWAYS have 7 digits apart from the area code, etc.), so ringing up my
grandmother and various other relations from here has been a
complicated business, but not nearly as awful as ringing them from
London, with the country code disappearing and who knows what coming
in instead.

I think that when ringing from abroad, the customary +44 knocks off
the initial 0 from the area code, doesn't it? And then when ringing
inside England, it's there again. Correct me if I'm wrong. :-)

Love, Alice
---drinking tea. There are few things in life that tea cannot solve. :)






From pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk  Sat May 24 18:41:12 2003
From: pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk (bluesqueak)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 18:41:12 -0000
Subject: Questions for our UK HPphiles
In-Reply-To: <bao6b9+gch1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <baoec8+sub3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Anne" <anneu53714 at s...> 
wrote:
> Hi all, I'm just getting into writing my own HP fan fics (after 
> reading a great many by other HP fans) and would appreciate help 
> on a few details. First, the word PUDDING. In the U.S. it usually 
> applies to a specific type of food, which can be eaten as a 
> dessert or a snack. Does "pudding" just mean "pudding" in Britain, 
> or does it mean "any kind of dessert-type dish eaten after the  
> main evening meal"? 

Following on from Richard's comments:

The word 'pudding' used on its own would be a dessert, probably at 
the evening meal, but a lunchtime meal might also have 'pudding' as 
a special treat (e.g. on Dudley's birthday?)

Pudding is also a sweet or savoury steamed dish made with suet and 
flour ('suet pudding'). You can have treacle pudding, steak and 
kidney pudding, lemon pudding, etc, all made around the suet steamed 
pastry base. They're made in a deep round bowl called a 'pudding 
basin'

Some other dishes made by steaming are also called pudding - this is 
the blood sausage (which we call black pudding) or pease pudding 
(made with peas) category.

And then there's rice pudding, which is, just to confuse everyone, 
baked.

'Pudding faced' means round faced, 'pudding basin haircut' means it 
looks like you put a pudding basin on top of the head and cut off 
any hair that stuck out from under the basin.

A 'big fat pudding' means a fat, round, and generally stupid person -
 as does 'pudding-brain'.
<snip>
> Anne U
> (who figured 867-5309 might fall on deaf ears in an HP fan fic)

No, that could be a UK number. We quite often give numbers without 
the area code, if the person we're giving them to is in the same 
phone area. It would not be a London number, though. As GulPlum 
points out, Londoners now have 8 digit numbers (which everyone has 
trouble remembering).

Pip




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Sat May 24 20:05:43 2003
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 20:05:43 -0000
Subject: 867-5309 was:Re: Questions for our UK HPphiles
In-Reply-To: <baoec8+sub3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <baojan+gf12@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bluesqueak" <pipdowns at e...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Anne" <anneu53714 at s...> 
> wrote:

> > Anne U
> > (who figured 867-5309 might fall on deaf ears in an HP fan fic)
> 
> No, that could be a UK number. We quite often give numbers without 
> the area code, if the person we're giving them to is in the same 
> phone area. It would not be a London number, though. As GulPlum 
> points out, Londoners now have 8 digit numbers (which everyone has 
> trouble remembering).
> 
> Pip

But it's a *song*, from about 1980, give or take.  I used to like it, 
but now I can't even remember the name of the group!  Anyway, Anne, 
you could Filk it -- as the Dursleys' number that Harry gave to Ron 
and Hermione!

Annemehr
who wonders now if the midi is available...




From Meliss9900 at aol.com  Sat May 24 20:19:20 2003
From: Meliss9900 at aol.com (Meliss9900 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 16:19:20 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] 867-5309 was:Re: Questions for our UK HPphiles
Message-ID: <30.3f9c7d1f.2c012dc8@aol.com>

In a message dated 5/24/2003 3:06:19 PM Central Standard Time, 
annemehr at yahoo.com writes:

> Anne U
> >>(who figured 867-5309 might fall on deaf ears in an HP fan fic)
> >
> >No, that could be a UK number. We quite often give numbers without 
> >the area code, if the person we're giving them to is in the same 
> >phone area. It would not be a London number, though. As GulPlum 
> >points out, Londoners now have 8 digit numbers (which everyone has 
> >trouble remembering).
> >
> >Pip
> 

Its a song called Jenny (867-5309) by Tommy Tutone.  It gave the phone 
company  (and anyone unlucky enough to have the number) fits. The song implied that 
Jenny was a girl of. . errrr. . ummm easy virture. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From heidit at netbox.com  Sat May 24 20:40:43 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 16:40:43 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] 867-5309 was:Re: Questions for our UK HPphiles
Message-ID: <mailman.49.1576049047.5361.hpfgu-otchatter@archive.hpfgu.org>

**but now I can't even remember the name of the group!  ***

Tommy Tutone. 

And I have nothing else to add to this and am wracked with guilt about this one-liner. 

Oh, wait! On where are they now on vh1, a few years back, they said that they still can't allow the number to be made availavle because of prank phone calls. 


Heidi, child of the 80/



From hp at plum.cream.org  Sat May 24 23:09:55 2003
From: hp at plum.cream.org (GulPlum)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 00:09:55 +0100
Subject: BB4
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20030524235542.00981940@plum.cream.org>

Something which will have not escaped the notice of UK readers is that the 
latest series of Big Brother started yesterday. Whether or not one watches, 
it's impossible to escape this phenomenon.

Anyway...

I was watching the Housemates being led in the house in alphabetical order 
yesterday, and the second one had me staring at the screen.

If Daniel Radcliffe wants to know what he's likely to look like in a few 
years' time, he has the opportunity to do so. Apart from the eyes, this guy 
seems to have the same facial bone structure and *exactly* the same 
smile/grin. It was uncanny! Furthermore, Federico (he's Scottish of Italian 
extraction) looks a big younger than he should at 23 and IMO would have 
made a much better Tom Riddle than Christian Coulson in CoS. Christian was 
pretty good, but there is simply no way that he looked 16!

Judge for yourselves from this picture... Strangely enough, the best 
picture I could find (which has already got some of the ladies drooling) 
was not on the official BB web site, but on the BBC Newsround site we HP 
fans know so well: 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/find_out/guides/2003/big_brother_4_contest 
ants/newsid_2933000/2933966.stm





From prittylina at yahoo.com  Sat May 24 23:52:21 2003
From: prittylina at yahoo.com (L)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 23:52:21 -0000
Subject: "Foreign" students at Hogwarts (Cho)
Message-ID: <bap0jl+a16c@eGroups.com>

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Petra Pan <ms_petra_pan at y...> 
wrote:
> DrMM, in part:
> > Cho Chang is most definatly not
> > a Japanese name.  The Japanese 
> > language doesn't have a hard "g"
> > sound.
> 
> Does 'Chang' have a hard 'g' sound 
> in it?  <eg>

No, it doesn't; "Chang" is, phonetically // (or
/a/), although 
I believe that, in this case (as "cho" is not a pinyin Chinese 
morpheme ["chou", yes]), it is actually Zhang (Wades-Giles system), 
thus /a/. (At least, this is how the Chinese version
translates it 
[QiuZhang == Cho Chang, HaliBote == Harry Potter], with
which I 
much agree.) To me, her name brings to mind either someone from 
Taiwan or someone who is British-born (second generation, likely), 
given the fact that the name seems to be Wade-Giles. Perhaps HK, but 
Cantonese really doesn't have "Chang" as a surname (Cantonese would 
be "Cheung")... 

However, it could be noted that "Chang" could be a Korean name under 
certain romanizations. (If I recall correctly, "Jang" [the equilivent 
of "Zhang/Chang"] has been romanized as "Chang" in the past.) 
Doubtful, though, that it's such. 

> Though I agree that naming a 
> character 'Cho Chang' is not 
> likely meant to indicate Japanese 
> ancestry, the reason you give 
> above is completely not in keeping 
> with what we know of the Japanese 
> language.  I mean, what are the 'g' 
> sounds in, say, 'origami' and 
> 'arigato' if they aren't hard?  
> Take a look at the next to last 
> paragraph of this page:

I think that they meant that a hard 'g' does not exist in a final 
sound. However, that 'g' is not indicating a consonant, but a 
particular nasal ().

> > I've also met a *lot* of Japanese
> > people and I have yet to meet one
> > named Cho or Chang (I live in
> > Japan right now).
> 
> Living in California, I've also 
> encountered a great many names that 
> are of Japanese origin.  I have yet 
> to see a family name that is mono-
> syllabic.  Hardly conclusive but 
> there you have it - another reason 
> this name does not read 'Japanese' 
> to me.

Most certainly not. Japanese is a syballic language, with only one 
final nasal-syllable (/n/), and the rest of syllables as CV 
(consonant vowel). It's a beautifully phonetic language like that. :D 


L, who is a fan of East Asian linguistics 




From prittylina at yahoo.com  Sun May 25 00:15:06 2003
From: prittylina at yahoo.com (L)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 00:15:06 -0000
Subject: "Foreign" students at Hogwarts (Cho)
In-Reply-To: <bap0jl+a16c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bap1ua+gqvr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "L" <prittylina at y...> wrote:
> No, it doesn't; "Chang" is, phonetically // (or
> /a&#331;/), although I believe that, in this case (as "cho" 
> is not a pinyin Chinese morpheme ["chou", yes]), it is actually 
> Zhang (Wades-Giles system), thus /a/. (At least, this 
> is how the Chinese version translates it [QiuZhang == Cho 
> Chang, HaliBote == Harry Potter], with which I much agree.) 

Oh, goodness. I can't believe that I didn't consider this happening. 
It should be /[c^][a~][ng]/ ... /[c^][a][ng]/... /[z?][a][ng]/... 
Qiu-Zhang, Hali-Bote... 

> However, that 'g' is not indicating a consonant, but a 
> particular nasal ().

[ng] -- It's more or less an 'n' with a longer ending loop (almost a 
cross between 'n' and 'g' -- Latin's "eng" I believe?). 


Lina, whose mind (obviously) is not all here today




From melclaros at yahoo.com  Sun May 25 00:30:06 2003
From: melclaros at yahoo.com (melclaros)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 00:30:06 -0000
Subject: Identifying football fans
In-Reply-To: <bakks7+cf9b@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bap2qe+3ovd@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "David" <dfrankiswork at n...> 
wrote:
> Annemehr wrote:
> 
> > Well, if you had SEATS instead of everybody STANDING, I bet 
people 
> > would be more relaxed and not fight as much (well, maybe not, but 
> > climbing over all those seat backs might slow them down a bit).
> 
> Actually, since a series of disasters in the eighties, it has been 
> the law for some years now that stadiums have to be all-seater.
> 

Thank heavens for that! One of the most unpleasant experiences of my 
life was standing for the duration of what I was told was a "football 
match" (it could have been cake decorating for all I could see of it) 
on a frozen mound of mud while listening to some of the 
most "colorful" usage of the English language imaginable.

Mel--who did it once and fulfilled her obligation for LIFE





From melclaros at yahoo.com  Sun May 25 00:37:39 2003
From: melclaros at yahoo.com (melclaros)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 00:37:39 -0000
Subject: 867-5309 was:Re: Questions for our UK HPphiles
In-Reply-To: <30.3f9c7d1f.2c012dc8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <bap38j+4732@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Meliss9900 at a... wrote:
> Its a song called Jenny (867-5309) by Tommy Tutone.  It gave the 
phone 
> company  (and anyone unlucky enough to have the number) fits. > 
> 

Tee hee! I live in a city that happens to use 867 as an exchange. 
Every kid from mid-elementary school age up called that number. They 
would have done it if Jenny was a great grandma, it was just the fun 
of dialling a local number from A SONG!

Mel





From catlady at wicca.net  Sun May 25 00:57:16 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 00:57:16 -0000
Subject: Condolences/Birthdays/HAIR/Mlists/Scholastic/Age Discrimination/name: Chang
Message-ID: <bap4dc+fn59@eGroups.com>

Anna dradamsapple wrote:

<< My father-in-law passed away after a 35 year battle with Diabetes. 
It is very sad, however (snip) it was time. (snip) it was an awful 
thing for anyone to see, never mind go through. Especially since his 
body stopped functioning, but his mind didn't. Anyhow, sorry for the 
rant, I guess I just needed to vent. >>

I've never learned how to say comforting things about bereavement, but 
I'm glad that at least you have this place to vent. *hugs*  

Rylly the Birthday Elf wrote on May 19 :

<< Today's birthday honourees are Michelle and Fiona. >>

Michelle the Pingu! I tried to YM a Joyeux Jour de Fete message to 
you, but I'm not sure it worked. I don't know how to say Happy 
Birthday in Greek. And I don't know in what language to say Happy 
Birthday to Fiona.

Sheryll the bad Birthday Elf wrote on May 22:

<< Yesterday's birthday honouree was Mirzam Black. >>

Bad Birthday Elf! But you could claim that the Taurus-Gemini cusp is 
somewhere around here and confusing you. What is it like to be mixed 
of the stability of Taurus and the flightiness of Gemini? Btw, Natal 
Congratulations to Mirzam (whose name I used to keep mistaking for 
'Miriam').

Happy Birthay May 22 to Jen P the secret Oprah watcher and 
husband-shaver!

Tabouli wrote:

<< Cindy:
> Am I the only woman who thinks the proliferation of bald men is a 
> fabulous development?
(the salad's jaw drops, aghast, from between its long dark crowning 
curtains)
Cindy! What is this hair-razing blasphemy against the most glorious 
substance produced by the human body? Wash out your follicles with 
soap and water! ;o) 
And what's these other women *agreeing* with her sentiments? Is mine 
to be the only voice raised in protest? Tsk tsk tsk. >>

Tabouli! I agree with you! And kudos on 'hair-raZing'. Btw, if that 
was your birthday, I hope it was a good one.

Cindy wrote:

<< My daughters are blessed with natural ringlets -- the only thing 
their hair requires to form fabulous ringlets is water -- and they 
*hate* their hair. They pine for straight hair. >>

This is excessively common. Despite infinite cliches of women with 
straight hair yearning for curls, I know so many women with lovely 
wavy/curly hair who claim it's an ugly mess and yearn for straight 
hair. Back in NYC, if they were close enough friends for me to joke 
coarsely with, I accused them of racialized self-hatred, "you just 
don't like your hair because it's Jewish/Italian hair, you want WASP 
hair because it's upper-class." (Judy replied seriously: "I don't 
want to be *blonde*, I just want *Japanese* hair, black and 
*straight*.") Here in LA, I could only accuse them of wanting to join 
the Pacific Rim majority (East Asian and Latino).

<< Fortunately for them, they can have straight hair anytime they 
like -- all they need is a hot blow dryer. And if they use a 
flat-iron, then they get these luxurious waves. >>

I share your envy!

David quoted Cindy:
<< How much work is it to stay bald, anyway? Do you have to shave 
your head every morning? >>
and replied:
<< Never having tried, I can't answer this, though the option is open 
to women, too, so a little experimentation might tell you, Cindy. >>

David, your whole post was a hoot, especially that bit. Btw, Tim once 
shaved his head (when he was a teen-ager, long before I met him), 
because his father nagged him about his hair getting long like some 
kind of hippy.

Charis Julia wrote:

<< it is * so* unfair that most of the guys in her life have better 
hair than she does. It's like eyelashes. Have you ever noticed that 
men have longer and curlier eyelashes than women? It's true. . . >>

Men's head hair grows faster than women's, an average of eight inches 
a year versus six. But they won't have better hair than you once male 
pattern baldness sets in. But they'll still have better eyelashes ... 
men have longer, thicker eyelashes than women because men are (except 
for the bald spot) hairier than women.

Heidi asked:

<< How many of you have your first experience with Usenet, mailing 
lists or message boards because of your interest in HP? And what's it 
like, being a newbie to both the list/board/group *and* to the 
concept/method of discussion? What do you think when you see the 
style of posting, etc.? >>

I don't do Usenet, but I think my first experience with Yahoo!Clubs, 
Egroups, etc, was because of HP. I can remember wanting to discuss HP 
with someone less easily bored by it than my RL and APA-L friends, 
and suddenly having having the realization (flash of lighning) that 
there might be a ... was it e-group? >b and using their search 
function and finding a hundred, mostly useless, but one was HPA 
(Harry Potter Anonymous) and I think Heidi lived the rest of the 
story (the flight to HPfGU Yahoo!Club, the migration of HPfGU from 
Y!Clubs to e-groups, the consumption of E-groups by Yahoo into 
Y!Groups ... )

I suppose I *must* have had some previous contacg with E-groups to 
even think of looking there for HP ... 

At that time, HPA and HPfGU were small enough that I was able to read 
their entire web-archive of back posts before I first posted. I don't 
recall having any trouble with the style of nested quotes and so on, 
and already knew the major smilies :) and soon someone helpfully 
explained <veg> (which has nothing to do with vegetables) ... I 
believe that I immediately felt at home with the style, and attribute 
that to many years of living in old-fashioned hard-copy APAs ... APA 
stands for Amateur Publishing Association and you can probably find 
a lot of history about hobbyists of fine printing and so on, but as 
an sf fan, to me APAs are a means of conversation, no matter how bad 
the typing and mimeography or photocopying (whichever is cheaper at 
the time) might be. 	

David wrote:

<< If you go to The Leaky Cauldron (www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/) or 
direct to
www.scholastic.com/aboutscholastic/news/press_05192003.htm
You can see details of Scholastic's marketing campaign. >>

Thanks for the info, I looked at the Scholastic PR and it seems to me 
that the 'marketting campaign' is mostly just suitable celebration of 
such a big, important, happy event. Except: why is Major League 
Baseball involved? They are NOT Quidditch.

Jen P wrote:

<< Well, that's what the *tell* people (and you know it's bad when 
they actually tell people something like that). From my experience 
(as a young person hired instead of an older person), it's mostly 
just a matter of money. >>

I'm under the impression that part of the matter of money is that 
group health insurance price factors include the percentage of 
coverees in various age groups (under 30, under 40, under 55).

<< young kids fresh out of college can live in studio apartments with 
2 roommates and eat ramen and Mac 'n' Cheese from a box. >>

Physically speaking, the young people are better at pulling 
all-nighers and going without sleep. And culturally, they don't 
have to waste some of their waking hours to childcare and yardwork 
(neither do I, but I'm an exception).

Prittylina wrote:

<< Perhaps HK, but Cantonese really doesn't have "Chang" as a surname 
(Cantonese would be "Cheung")... >>

At my university, there was a student from Hong Kong living in my dorm 
named Miao Chang. I dearly love the name 'Miao' but she had a little 
Pekinese dog living in her room with her, not a cat.




From meboriqua at aol.com  Sun May 25 01:58:25 2003
From: meboriqua at aol.com (jenny_ravenclaw)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 01:58:25 -0000
Subject: 867-5309 was:Re: Questions for our UK HPphiles
In-Reply-To: <30.3f9c7d1f.2c012dc8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <bap801+dk9m@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Meliss9900 at a... wrote:

> Its a song called Jenny (867-5309) by Tommy Tutone.  It gave the 
phone company  (and anyone unlucky enough to have the number) fits. 
The song implied that Jenny was a girl of. . errrr. . ummm easy 
virture.>

In the video, Tommy Tutone is arrested for being a peeping Tom(my).  
Ah, those early 80s videos were the best!

--jenny from ravenclaw, who cannot stump Heidi when it comes to early 
80s music trivia - go on, try her! ****************************




From yomiko at kuraihime.net  Sun May 25 06:52:59 2003
From: yomiko at kuraihime.net (kuroinotsuki)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 06:52:59 -0000
Subject: "Foreign" students at Hogwarts (Cho)
In-Reply-To: <bap0jl+a16c@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bapp8b+pckj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "L" <prittylina at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Petra Pan <ms_petra_pan at y...> 
> wrote:
> > DrMM, in part:
> > > Cho Chang is most definatly not
> > > a Japanese name.  The Japanese 
> > > language doesn't have a hard "g"
> > > sound.
> > 
> > Does 'Chang' have a hard 'g' sound 
> > in it?  <eg>
> 
> > Though I agree that naming a 
> > character 'Cho Chang' is not 
> > likely meant to indicate Japanese 
> > ancestry, the reason you give 
> > above is completely not in keeping 
> > with what we know of the Japanese 
> > language.  I mean, what are the 'g' 
> > sounds in, say, 'origami' and 
> > 'arigato' if they aren't hard?  
> > Take a look at the next to last 
> > paragraph of this page:

*delurks*

I think what Dr.MM was trying to say here (Forgive me if I'm wrong)
is 
that it's impossible for a Japanese word to end in just "g" as
"Chang" 
does. See, the "g" in "arigato" and "origami" don't exist as "g" on 
their own but as part of the syllable "ga". "Arigatou" (it's a long
o) 
would be written out in Japanese as 

a ri ga tou

and origami is written as

o ri ga mi.

The only letters allowed to exist "on their own" in Japanese are 
vowels and the letter "n". Everything else is part of a syllable and 
likewise words can only end in a vowel or in the letter "n". 

Therefore, it's impossible to have a surname like "Chang" be Japanese 
because it ends in simply in "g" and not a vowel or the letter "n". 
Also, you can't spell "Chang" as it is with any of the syllables used 
in the Japanese language. It would end up being either

cha n gu (which isn't right)
or
cha n g (which isn't possible in Japanese).

> 
> > > I've also met a *lot* of Japanese
> > > people and I have yet to meet one
> > > named Cho or Chang (I live in
> > > Japan right now).
> > 
> > Living in California, I've also 
> > encountered a great many names that 
> > are of Japanese origin.  I have yet 
> > to see a family name that is mono-
> > syllabic.  Hardly conclusive but 
> > there you have it - another reason 
> > this name does not read 'Japanese' 
> > to me.

*nods* Japanese family names are never monosyllabic and I can't think 
of any names, personal or otherwise, that don't have at least two 
syllables.

Now, "Cho" does have a meaning in Japanese--actually it has about 
seven million meanings depending on what kanji you're using to write 
it--but as far as my kanji dictionary is concerned,(granted it's a 
beginner's dictionary) "Cho" on its own is always a long "o" which 
would be written out "Chou" in Japanese. And "Chou" is almost always 
the "onyomi" reading of a kanji: the reading of the kanji derived
from 
the original Chinese reading/meaning of the kanji (The Japanese 
borrowed kanji almost entirely from the Chinese, and made a few 
changes here and there. There are two ways kanji can be read in 
Japanese--the onyomi, or Chinese way (which are usually short 
words--ka, ba, shi, ji--and can be one syllable) and the kunyomi or 
Japanese way (which tend to be longer--tsuki, karada, shizu--and 
multi-syllabic). Which points even more at "Cho" being a 
Chinese-derived name.

Yomiko ("the reading girl")






From Ripleywriter at aol.com  Sun May 25 09:33:28 2003
From: Ripleywriter at aol.com (Ripleywriter at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 05:33:28 EDT
Subject: Photo Editor free trial?
Message-ID: <70.2e6e9b5c.2c01e7e8@aol.com>

Hi,

   I was wondering if anybody here knew where I could download a free trial 
of Paint Shop Pro? I know there are different versions, but I don't care which 
one I get, I guess. I'm having a hard time finding it. Can you e-mail me 
off-list?

Thanks!

Melly

  


  



From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun May 25 15:02:22 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 25 May 2003 15:02:22 -0000
Subject: Reminder - Weekly Chat 
Message-ID: <1053874942.21.51468.m13@yahoogroups.com>


We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Weekly Chat 

Date: Sunday, May 25, 2003 
Time: 11:00AM - 7:00PM CDT (GMT-05:00) 

Hi everyone! 

Don't forget, chat happens today, 11 am Pacific, 2 pm Eastern, 7
pm UK time. *Chat times are not changing for Daylight
Saving/Summer Time.*  Chat generally goes on for about 5 hours,
but can last as long as people want it to last.

Go into any Yahoo chat room and type /join HP:1 
For further info, see the Humongous BigFile, section 3.3.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/hbfile.html#33

Hope to see you there! 

 





From glcherry at bellsouth.net  Sun May 25 21:45:10 2003
From: glcherry at bellsouth.net (stardancerofas)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 21:45:10 -0000
Subject: BB4
Message-ID: <bardh6+61v6@eGroups.com>

Gulplum wrote: Christian was pretty good but there is simply no way that
he looked 16.

Now me ,(Lorrie )throwing my two knuts in: Hi! First let me say that I
love this list, it's been so wonderful reading all the things here,
and on the Main List...even if I don't say too much. 

Now, IMHO...How many people here have seen old photos from say 50
years ago, and not went "there's no *way* that is so-and-so! And
there's no *way* they were 16, they look at least 25...Am I right? :)
I have a photo of my grandmother when she was 18 years old. I swear
she looked 30! My point is (finally) that I think Christian was
perfectly right for the 16 year old Lord V. Different, and lets face
it harder times, made young people look a lot older than they really
were.

Oh, and Valky: thanks for answering me here, and on the main list too.
It really did make me feel like I had said something important enough
for someone else to notice. You really made my day.

To Anna: I do not know you, but I am very sorrow about the loss of
your father-in-law, you are in my thoughts.




From dradamsapple at yahoo.com  Mon May 26 02:25:43 2003
From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 02:25:43 -0000
Subject: BB4
In-Reply-To: <bardh6+61v6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bartv7+ic84@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "stardancerofas" 
<glcherry at b...> wrote:
> Gulplum wrote: Christian was pretty good but there is simply no way 
that
> he looked 16.
> 
> Now me ,(Lorrie )throwing my two knuts in: 
>snip< 
> Now, IMHO...How many people here have seen old photos from say 50
> years ago, and not went "there's no *way* that is so-and-so! And
> there's no *way* they were 16, they look at least 25...Am I 
right? :)
> I have a photo of my grandmother when she was 18 years old. I swear
> she looked 30! My point is (finally) that I think Christian was
> perfectly right for the 16 year old Lord V. Different, and lets face
> it harder times, made young people look a lot older than they really
> were.

Anna says;

Ah, the great "actor's" age vs. "character" age debate again.

For me, I somewhat agree with "stardancerofas", in that I had a hard 
time believing that Christian Coulson was playing a 16 year old.  
Although, seeing how his scenes were filmed sans color, it made it 
look a little more believable. And, as Lorrie mentioned, yes, some of 
the older pics do tend to age the person up a bit.  My father left 
home when he was fifteen, and had his passport pics done (we're 
talking 1930's or so), and he did not look anything near 15!  Of 
course, people tended to "dress up" more than we do in this day and 
age, which again, does make you look older.  But Christian, and for 
that matter, the actress who played Moaning Myrtle (her name escapes 
me) were a little too old for their parts IMO.
 
In another example, as dropdeadgorgeous as Tom Welling (Smallville) 
is, I definately have a hard time seeing him as a high school kid;  
the actor himself just seems to exude a certain amount of maturity 
that a 16 year old wouldn't have IMO.  Maybe I just need to hang 
around high school boys more . . .(er, I'm just kidding here; I'm not 
MaryKay Leterneau!) 

I guess I'm not really good at debating this issue as I tend to take 
each case individually.  I really think you have to look at the whole 
picture; the actor, the role he is playing and the context in which 
the role is being played.
But I do like to use these cases, for example, when the issue comes 
up that Dan/Rupert/Emma's age will not coincide with the characters' 
age.  I mean, how much closer to JKR's characters can they get?  Do 
people honestly  believe that they will outgrow their characters?  
Not because I think the actors were cast perfectly, but I don't see a 
problem with them continuing to play the characters for the next few 
movies.  I suppose the further we get into the books, the harder it 
will be for them, but I think we'll just have to wait and see.



>
> 
> To Anna: I do not know you, but I am very sorrow about the loss of
> your father-in-law, you are in my thoughts.


Thank you!
I am very grateful to those of you who thought of me and/or sent me a 
note. It was a very pleasant surprise.
 
This is going to be a long week for us, as things aren't even 
happening till next weekend.  Circumstances have not allowed us to 
proceed in a timely fashion;(relatives coming in from all over US, 
Memorial Day, etc.), so it's been rather difficult, although it has 
given us a lot of time to be together as a family.

But, thanks again to the wonderful people in this group! You are all 
the best!

Anna . . .




From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Mon May 26 02:38:22 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 19:38:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: "Foreign" students at Hogwarts (Cho)
In-Reply-To: <bapp8b+pckj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030526023822.85180.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com>

DrMM, in part:
> Cho Chang is most definatly not
> a Japanese name.  The Japanese 
> language doesn't have a hard "g"
> sound.

Yours truly asked with tongue in cheek:
> Does 'Chang' have a hard 'g' sound 
> in it?  <eg>
> 
> Though I agree that naming a 
> character 'Cho Chang' is not 
> likely meant to indicate Japanese 
> ancestry, the reason you give 
> above is completely not in keeping 
> with what we know of the Japanese 
> language.  I mean, what are the 'g' 
> sounds in, say, 'origami' and 
> 'arigato' if they aren't hard?  
> Take a look at the next to last 
> paragraph of this page:

Yomiko, in part:
> I think what Dr.MM was trying to say
> here (Forgive me if I'm wrong) is 
> that it's impossible for a Japanese
> word to end in just "g" as "Chang" 
> does. See, the "g" in "arigato" and
> "origami" don't exist as "g" on 
> their own but as part of the syllable
> "ga". "Arigatou" (it's a long o) 
> would be written out in Japanese as 
> 
> a ri ga tou
> 
> and origami is written as
> 
> o ri ga mi.
> 
> The only letters allowed to exist
> "on their own" in Japanese are 
> vowels and the letter "n". Everything
> else is part of a syllable and 
> likewise words can only end in a
> vowel or in the letter "n". 
> 
> Therefore, it's impossible to have a
> surname like "Chang" be Japanese 
> because it ends in simply in "g" and
> not a vowel or the letter "n". 
> Also, you can't spell "Chang" as it
> is with any of the syllables used 
> in the Japanese language. It would
> end up being either
> 
> cha n gu (which isn't right) or
> cha n g (which isn't possible in
> Japanese).

Yes, I know the above.  However,
someone with less familiarity with the 
Japanese language could not have 
derived that understanding purely from 
the original statement "The Japanese 
language doesn't have a hard 'g' sound."  
Just wanted DrMM to provide an 
explanation of what s/he meant.  :)

I am however surprised at the ways both 
you and DrMM break up the syllable that 
is 'Chang.'  Could it not also be simply 
'chan' and the essentially silent 'g' 
dropped altogether?  Because really, the 
syllable-closing consonant sound is not 
'g' but 'ng' which is closer to 'n' than 
a hard 'g.'

Of course, to answer that question is to 
continue on the rigmarole that is the 
process of transliteration/romanization; 
the combination of the letters in 'Cho 
Chang' represents only the pronunciation 
of the Chinese ideograms, leaving behind 
the denotation, connotation and etymology 
of the words that make up the name.

Though the written Chinese has been 
standardized, the spoken language exists 
in numerous dialects.  Without knowing 
which dialect, it's difficult to pin down 
which phoneme the transliteration is 
trying to refer to.  Heck, even after 
identifying the phoneme correctly, there 
usually are numerous ideograms with that 
same phoneme/pronunciation. 

Surely the easiest way to designate a 
Chinese name in Japanese would be to 
simply go back to the original source and 
use kanji.  Which kanji would be the 
question.  This makes me wonder how the 
translators of the Chinese versions of HP 
grappled with this issue before publishing.  
Was JKR presented with the various choices 
or did the translators just chose whatever 
tickled their fancy?  Figuring out the 
last name is much easier since only so 
many words function as last names.  First 
names are however essentially unique, 
which is to say, in this case, it can be 
any word that could sound like 'Cho.'

Petra
a
n  :)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com



From MsSeverusLucius at aol.com  Mon May 26 03:33:42 2003
From: MsSeverusLucius at aol.com (MsSeverusLucius at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 23:33:42 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Questions for our UK HPphiles
Message-ID: <116.23b412fe.2c02e516@aol.com>

some of us love to hear actual real and useful information, lol, thanks alot !
~shahara, wi, usa

<< GulPlum AKA Richard, probably offering more information than was strictly 
necessary :-) >>




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Mon May 26 05:23:12 2003
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 05:23:12 -0000
Subject: Posts that get replies (or not) was:Re: BB4
In-Reply-To: <bardh6+61v6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bas8c0+1r7l@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "stardancerofas" 
<glcherry at b...> wrote:
 
> Oh, and Valky: thanks for answering me here, and on the main list 
too.
> It really did make me feel like I had said something important 
enough
> for someone else to notice. You really made my day.
> 

I'm going to take this opportunity to offer some encouragement to 
lurkers and newbies to go ahead and post!

I'm not exactly and "oldbie" myself, having only joined this past 
September, but often I notice people unhappy that their posts may not 
be getting any replies.  Just know that there can be reasons for that 
besides non-interest!

I personally do not reply to every post that interests me, and that's 
partly because there isn't enough time to compose a good response to 
every one!  Often, the post has made what I consider a very good 
point, but if I have nothing to say except "I agree," I don't post it 
(as suggested by the HBFile).

There are also, I think, around 2,000 people who have joined after I 
did, and often some of you will bring up subjects that even I have 
seen thoroughly discussed before.  There is nothing wrong with this, 
but older members may not wish to post the same things over again.  
This is the chance for the newer members to jump in with both feet!  
Go ahead and post your opinions!  The guidelines in the HBfile aren't 
all that difficult, just common sense: politeness, plain English, and 
clarity when quoting.  Go ahead, get into practice before OoP comes 
out.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with lurking if that's what you like, 
just don't get discouraged if you haven't had your posts answered yet 
(I am often surprised which of my posts get answers and which sink 
like a stone)!

Annemehr, cheerleading




From naama_gat at hotmail.com  Mon May 26 06:37:05 2003
From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naamagatus)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 06:37:05 -0000
Subject: First chapter of OOP?
In-Reply-To: <balq1p+mpmp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bascmh+s7p@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Dicentra spectabilis" 
<dicentra at x> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "David" <dfrankiswork at n...> 
wrote:
> > Dicentra passed this link on offlist.
> > 
> > http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/hp_phoenix.html
> > 
> > Make of it what you will.
> > 
> Ok, folks.  Of course it's a fake.  Fake fake fake fake fake.  It's
> also supposed to be a joke.  This guy isn't trying to fool a soul. 
> It's supposed to be *funny*.  
> 
> --Dicentra, who is wondering just how esoteric her sense of humor is
> anyway

Well, I thought it very funny too. I just don't understand why he 
wrote a first chapter of OoP that is about Harry's *sixth* year. 

The Foont was great!

Naama




From gandharvika at hotmail.com  Mon May 26 10:49:25 2003
From: gandharvika at hotmail.com (Gail Bohacek)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 10:49:25 +0000
Subject: To Be A Kid Again...
Message-ID: <Law8-F62S434g6d5P1L00033f9d@hotmail.com>

Yesterday I attended a wedding and during the ceremony I excused myself to 
go to the bathroom which was in the basement of the church.  When I went 
down the stairs I found several little kids running around playing very 
loudly.  Some had pen-lights and others held sticks which they had obviously 
gathered from outside.  They were flashing their lights/pointing their 
sticks at one another and shouting at the top of their lungs words I 
couldn't make out.  After watching them for a few moments, I asked one of 
the kids, as he ran by, what they were saying.

"Expelliarmus!"  he cried, "Serpensortia!"

Ah, children after me own heart.  Wished that I could join them.

-Gail B...who whispered in the kid's ear that he should cast Cruicio 
(because I am EVIL).  When I did, I was immediately reprehended by him who 
told me that he couldn't cast that spell 'coz it was an Unforgivable.

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Mon May 26 12:16:11 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 08:16:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Belated Happy Birthday, Charis Julia!
Message-ID: <20030526121611.30149.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com>

*red-faced with embarassment, the Birthday Elf brings
out extra large cake and many, many goodies to place
in the middle of the room*

Yesterday's birthday honouree was Charis Julia.
Belated birthday owls can be sent to this list or
directly to: pollux46 at hotmail.com

I hope the day was filled with fun and brought
everything you expected.

Happy Birthday, Charis Julia!

Sheryll, the Birthday Elf

=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From marl2580 at yahoo.co.uk  Mon May 26 12:19:55 2003
From: marl2580 at yahoo.co.uk (marl2580)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 12:19:55 -0000
Subject: What to see in Britain
In-Reply-To: <20030523173734.75894.qmail@web14201.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bat0pb+r2oo@eGroups.com>

 Tyler Hewitt wrote:
> Hi everyone
> Sorry about the totally HP-free post, but oh well. 
> My partner and I are going to Britain in June, and I'm
> looking for sugestions on what to see. I've been
> before, but it was over 20 years ago. My partner has
> never been. We're going to concentrate on London, I
> have a friend that lives in the suburbs.  We're also
> planning some day trips or a couple of nights
> elsewhere. We're thinking of going to York, and maybe
> Edinburgh, although that could change.

Please explore Britain and not just London, there is so much to 
do and see outside of London. If you come up to Scotland I 
recommend that as well as visiting Edinburgh you visit some of 
the east coast fishing towns such as Auchtermuchty. You should 
also visit St Andrews which is a beautiful town. Some of the 
castles are really lovely and well worth a visit, or if you prefer 
something older there are a number of stone and iron age sites 
throughout Scotland. Wallking in the glens is something 
everyone should do at least once. If you fancy a more modern 
activity, Glasgow has some brilliant pubs and clubs.
I think the Scottish tourist board should hire me ;-)

Marley




From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Mon May 26 15:17:27 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 15:17:27 -0000
Subject: Posts that get replies (or not) 
In-Reply-To: <bas8c0+1r7l@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <batb67+lpi3@eGroups.com>

Annemehr wrote:

> I'm going to take this opportunity to offer some encouragement to 
> lurkers and newbies to go ahead and post!
> 
> I'm not exactly and "oldbie" myself, having only joined this past 
> September, but often I notice people unhappy that their posts may 
>not be getting any replies.  Just know that there can be reasons 
>for that besides non-interest!

Oh, I really do agree with everything Annemehr said.  I don't know 
if I qualify as an olbie (we really need a definition of how long 
one needs to hang around to earn the title of "oldbie"), but I've 
been around since September 2001.  *Everybody* writes posts that 
draw no response on the list.  Really.  You really shouldn't get 
discouraged.  

Part of the problem is that posts that do nothing more than show 
appreciation for another post ("LOL!" or "I agree completely!") are 
frowned upon.  So if people think you said what you said 
brilliantly, it can be hard for them to post to tell you that.  One 
way to get around that is to send notes of appreciation off-list.  

Anyway, about this title of "Olbie" . . . I suggest that an "olbie" 
be defined as someone who has been a continuous and reasonably 
active member of the list for over one year.  'Cause under that 
definition, I get to be an "Oldbie!"  ;-)

Cindy -- who has a feeling that her proposed definition of "oldbie" 
isn't going to fly




From prittylina at yahoo.com  Mon May 26 16:03:44 2003
From: prittylina at yahoo.com (L)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 16:03:44 -0000
Subject: "Foreign" students at Hogwarts (Cho)
In-Reply-To: <20030526023822.85180.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <batdt0+413k@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Petra Pan <ms_petra_pan at y...> 
wrote:
> I am however surprised at the ways both 
> you and DrMM break up the syllable that 
> is 'Chang.'  Could it not also be simply 
> 'chan' and the essentially silent 'g' 
> dropped altogether?  Because really, the 
> syllable-closing consonant sound is not 
> 'g' but 'ng' which is closer to 'n' than 
> a hard 'g.'

No, it couldn't, as that is not how Japanese names would be 
written. "ng" is a particular nasal which, as I previously stated, 
does not exist in Japanese language (only one, the "n" exists). (The 
only time that "ng" would be used as a nasal in transliteration of 
Japanese would be for, perhaps, a product, which would lend the name 
to sound more foreign [though why they would want the product to 
sound more Chinese is beyond me ;D].) IIRC, when Chinese names are 
pronounced in Japanese, if there were a "ng" nasal instead of an "n" 
nasal, it would become "n" regardless in Japanese. So, "Chang" in 
Japanese would be "CHAN" (all the while looking awfully like "Chou", 
a counter which could also mean "lengthen"), a "transliteration" of 
which would be written above the character in katakana, a group of 
phonetic characters generally used with foreign words. 

Thinking of this, I searched for some Japanese sites on how they 
translated the names; Harry Potter, as could be expected, is HARI- 
BOTTA- (double TT == glottal stop, then TA, - == elogation of the 
previous vowel). Cho Chang is CHOU CHAN. 
(Cute fanart found during the search: 
http://matita.eheart.jp/hp/hp_17.html)

> Though the written Chinese has been 
> standardized, the spoken language exists 
> in numerous dialects.  Without knowing 
> which dialect, it's difficult to pin down 
> which phoneme the transliteration is 
> trying to refer to.  Heck, even after 
> identifying the phoneme correctly, there 
> usually are numerous ideograms with that 
> same phoneme/pronunciation. 
> 
> Surely the easiest way to designate a 
> Chinese name in Japanese would be to 
> simply go back to the original source and 
> use kanji.  Which kanji would be the 
> question.  This makes me wonder how the 
> translators of the Chinese versions of HP 
> grappled with this issue before publishing.  
> Was JKR presented with the various choices 
> or did the translators just chose whatever 
> tickled their fancy?  

I rather seriously doubt that she was consulted. From all that I can 
tell, the Chinese (mainland, as I'm not certain if 
Taiwan/Singapore/Hong Kong [e.g. those using traditional characters 
instead of simplified characters, as used in mainland]) version is 
translated from the American edition (it even uses the art); likely 
what had occured was that a publisher was given the rights to a 
translation, and then translated it. The only remotely Chinese-
sounding name is Cho Chang, which, as I previously stated, is taken 
as being the Wade-Giles romanization of "Qiu Zhang" (and it is thus 
written such, as "Qiu-Zhang" -- first name first, last name last, 
thus indicating that it is a foreign-born name), as having "cho", 
which doesn't exist in pinyin, indicates that the romanization used 
is WG. As for the other names (and any other JKR-created words, such 
as "muggle" [magua]), they are written using what I suppose could be 
described as "official" transliterations (e.g. the generic characters 
used to represent foreign sounds). So Harry because "Hali", using 
characters that would be found in the translation of, say, "Italy" 
("Yidali" using the name "li"). It makes reading the news much 
easier, as such characters are generally a give-away that the word is 
foreign. :) 

When (mainland) Chinese names are romanized, at least in the US, the 
names are written using pinyin, regardless of the person's dialectal 
origin; IIRC, the US no longer accepts Wade-Giles transliterations 
from the mainland (although, and again, If I Recall Correctly, people 
from Taiwan and Singapore can use Wade-Giles as this is the 
particular romanization system used there; from HK, they [generally] 
use the set Cantonese romanization [though the term for such slips my 
mind]). Thus, for my friend LI Mingjiang, who is from Sichuan and 
thus speaks Sichuan-ese in addition to the regular putonghua 
(Mandarin), his name was romanized as Li Mingjiang instead of that of 
his particular dialect (Li Men---something or another, I forget; I 
only can speak Mandarin and a conversational level of Shanghai-ese), 
as it is easier. This is how it is done throughout the rest of the 
country as well: When someone from a different area (e.g. Hong Kong) 
is being referred to, one would use their Mandarin pronunciation when 
speaking and romanization when writing (on the flip side, I do not 
believe that Hu Jintao is referred to as "Hu Jintao" in HK, but 
whatever the Cantonese reading of his name is; this is certainly how 
it is done in Shanghai). 


Lina, otherwise known as LI Ailian, but using a different "li" than 
her friend LI Mingjiang




From hypercolor99 at hotmail.com  Mon May 26 17:35:51 2003
From: hypercolor99 at hotmail.com (alice_loves_cats)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 17:35:51 -0000
Subject: BB4
In-Reply-To: <bartv7+ic84@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <batj9n+i444@eGroups.com>

> But Christian, and for 
> that matter, the actress who played Moaning Myrtle (her name escapes 
> me) were a little too old for their parts IMO.

Oh, it was Shirley Henderson, and don't I just LOVE her! That was is
extraordinary. She played in Bridget Jones's Diary and also in a
mini-series called The Way We Live Now. It's playing on BBC Prime at
the moment. Love it completely. :-)

Alice




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Mon May 26 18:48:21 2003
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 18:48:21 -0000
Subject: Posts that get replies (or not)
In-Reply-To: <batb67+lpi3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <batnhl+4lfj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." <cindysphynx at c...> 
wrote:

> Anyway, about this title of "Olbie" . . . I suggest that an "olbie" 
> be defined as someone who has been a continuous and reasonably 
> active member of the list for over one year.  'Cause under that 
> definition, I get to be an "Oldbie!"  ;-)

Continuous and active, I'll buy, but REASONABLE?  CAP'N CINDY????
No way! <vbg>

Annemehr
looking forward to post-OoP TBAY almost as much as OoP itself




From abigailnus at yahoo.com  Mon May 26 19:10:38 2003
From: abigailnus at yahoo.com (abigailnus)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 19:10:38 -0000
Subject: Posts that get replies (or not)
In-Reply-To: <batb67+lpi3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <batore+gbkv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." <cindysphynx at c...> wrote:

> Anyway, about this title of "Olbie" . . . I suggest that an "olbie" 
> be defined as someone who has been a continuous and reasonably 
> active member of the list for over one year.  'Cause under that 
> definition, I get to be an "Oldbie!"  ;-)

Can I have a definition on 'continuous and reasonably active', Cindy?  I've been a 
member since December '01, and have posted about half-a-dozen times a month 
since January '02, does that make me active, or sporadic?

Abigail
Shocked to discover that Cindy predates her on the group by only three months.




From artsylynda at aol.com  Mon May 26 21:06:39 2003
From: artsylynda at aol.com (artsylynda at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 17:06:39 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] BB4
Message-ID: <13CF8467.1E81C6FC.0AE51F07@aol.com>

In a message dated 5/26/2003 1:08:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com writes:

> > But Christian, and for 
> > that matter, the actress who played Moaning Myrtle (her 
> name escapes 
> > me) were a little too old for their parts IMO.

Sorry, I've lost track of who I'm quoting (since I'm quoting a quote found in a subsequent e. . .).  Anyway. . .I always thought Moaning Myrtle looked old for her part, but then I figured, if they're going to make 7 movies, and it will take way more than 7 years to make them, they need someone whose appearance won't change much in that time.  So someone in their 20s would fill the bill better than a teenager, for both Myrtle and Tom Riddle's parts (as well as the other ghosts).  Understandable casting choice, IMO.  Too bad they couldn't write all the screenplays at once(as was done for LotR and the Matrix sequels) and do every Myrtle scene (for instance) within a certain time frame, then paste them into the movies as needed -- then they could've cast someone younger.  But I think she does a good job of "moaning," heehee.

Lynda





From saitaina at wizzards.net  Tue May 27 00:23:44 2003
From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 17:23:44 -0700
Subject: Trouble with neighbors, suggestions welcome.
References: <13CF8467.1E81C6FC.0AE51F07@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00e401c323e6$3c127a40$da371c40@aoldsl.net>

Okay I've got these neighbors who seem to think their idea of a fun
time is shouting matches at all hours of the day.   They do it in
their apartment but they also do it on the front lawn of our apartment
building.  We live in a nice buisness district and I really don't
think it's polite of them to get into a screaming match on the front
lawn (let alone at three a clock in the morning and throw things).

So my problem is, how do I handle this?  I can't ignore it, I've tried
but it got so bad one night I had to call the cops afraid he was
abusing her.   Do I have a leg to stand on to get them to stop?

Saitaina
****
My theory on housework is, if the item doesn't multiply, smell, catch
on fire or block the refrigerator door, let it be. No one cares. Why
should you?

http://www.livejournal.com/users/saitaina

Before you try to keep up with the Joneses, be sure they're not trying
to keep up with you.




From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Tue May 27 00:46:59 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 00:46:59 -0000
Subject: Oldbies (WAS Re: Posts that get replies (or not))
In-Reply-To: <batore+gbkv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bauci4+hq5m@eGroups.com>

Abigail wrote:

> Can I have a definition on 'continuous and reasonably active', 
>Cindy?  


Uh . . . 

<scratches head>

Well, let's see.  "Continuous" would be you, uh, never unsubbed from 
the list.  And, uh, "reasonably active" means that, erm, you post.  
Sometimes.  

<looks around hopefully>

OK, I have no idea.  I think the problem here is that we need a 
*true* olbie -- someone like Joywitch or Amanda or Amy Z -- to 
explain what makes a regular old member morph into a proper "oldbie."


Abigail:

>I've been a member since December '01, and have posted about half-a-
>dozen times a month since January '02, does that make me active, or 
>sporadic?

You?  Abigail, you're *active!*  No doubt about that!
 
> Abigail
> Shocked to discover that Cindy predates her on the group by only 
>three months.

Heh.  It's funny how it seems that others have been around a lot 
longer than you, even when they haven't.  For instance, it feels to 
me like David and Amy Z have been around since the flood, but I 
think they only have a few months on me.  

Hey, maybe I *am* an olbie after all!  I'm sitting around 
reminiscing about the good old days and forgetting when things 
happened just a short time ago!  ;-)

Annemehr wrote:

>looking forward to post-OoP TBAY almost as much as OoP itself

<lowers voice>

Oh, me too!  After all, the only thing we know for sure is that Big 
Bang will survive the hurricane!  :-D 

Cindy -- who is going to take her sweet time reading OoP






From Chasewildstar at attbi.com  Tue May 27 00:51:06 2003
From: Chasewildstar at attbi.com (Chase Wildstar)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 20:51:06 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Trouble with neighbors, suggestions welcome.
References: <13CF8467.1E81C6FC.0AE51F07@aol.com> <00e401c323e6$3c127a40$da371c40@aoldsl.net>
Message-ID: <000501c323ea$0ecdbeb0$9c01f50c@mac>

call the cops and press charges for disturbing the peace.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Saitaina" <saitaina at wizzards.net>
To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 8:23 PM
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Trouble with neighbors, suggestions welcome.


> Okay I've got these neighbors who seem to think their idea of a fun
> time is shouting matches at all hours of the day.   They do it in
> their apartment but they also do it on the front lawn of our apartment
> building.  We live in a nice buisness district and I really don't
> think it's polite of them to get into a screaming match on the front
> lawn (let alone at three a clock in the morning and throw things).
>
> So my problem is, how do I handle this?  I can't ignore it, I've tried
> but it got so bad one night I had to call the cops afraid he was
> abusing her.   Do I have a leg to stand on to get them to stop?
>
> Saitaina
> ****
> My theory on housework is, if the item doesn't multiply, smell, catch
> on fire or block the refrigerator door, let it be. No one cares. Why
> should you?
>
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/saitaina
>
> Before you try to keep up with the Joneses, be sure they're not trying
> to keep up with you.
>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material
from posts to which you're replying!
>
> Is your message...
> An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
> Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- 
MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
>
> Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>




From editor at texas.net  Tue May 27 02:23:22 2003
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Geist)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 21:23:22 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Oldbies (WAS Re: Posts that get replies (or not))
References: <bauci4+hq5m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000801c323f6$f3494c60$1a04a6d8@texas.net>

Cindy:

> OK, I have no idea.  I think the problem here is that we need a
> *true* olbie -- someone like Joywitch or Amanda or Amy Z -- to
> explain what makes a regular old member morph into a proper "oldbie."

I think it's when you hear a theory proposed for the fourth time. Your
mileage may vary.

~Amanda (whose posts go unacknowledged so often she doesn't even expect
responses anymore)






From catlady at wicca.net  Tue May 27 03:29:42 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 03:29:42 -0000
Subject: Belated Happy Birthday, Charis Julia!
In-Reply-To: <20030526121611.30149.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <baum36+apt3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Sheryll Townsend <s_ings at y...> 
wrote:
> 
> Yesterday's birthday honouree was Charis Julia.

Just in time, Charis Julia herself told me how to say Happy 
Birthday in Greek!

<<"?????? ?????" (chonia polla) which means "many years" (indicating 
how long you wish the person in question to live.>>

Like in USA, we whine "aanndd maaaannnyyyyy mooooore" after singing 
"Happy Birthday to You".

<< "?? ??????" (na zeseis) e.g. "may you live", 
"?? ?? ????????????" (na ta ekatosteseis) e.g. "may you live to be a 
hundred", 
"?,?? ?????????" (oti epithumeis) e.g. "may you have anything you 
desire", 
"??? ??? ??????" (kai tou chonou) e.g. "next year also" >>

Like in USA, we sometimes say "Many happy returns", and only about a 
year ago, someone explained to me that that means returns of the 
anniversary, not returns of the presents or something.
 
<< What is more usual still is saying tham all one after the other in 
quick succession and with no stop for breath. >>

Consider it done!




From anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net  Tue May 27 04:05:45 2003
From: anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net (Anne)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 04:05:45 -0000
Subject: First chapter of OOP?
In-Reply-To: <bascmh+s7p@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bauo6p+nna9@eGroups.com>

> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "David" 
<dfrankiswork at n...> 
> wrote:
> > > Dicentra passed this link on offlist.
> > > 
> > > http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/hp_phoenix.html
> > > 
> > > Make of it what you will.
> > > 
> > Ok, folks.  Of course it's a fake.  Fake fake fake fake fake.  
It's
> > also supposed to be a joke.  This guy isn't trying to fool a 
soul. 
> > It's supposed to be *funny*.  
> 

Poor Hermione (wibble). "Why her? why her?!" (she asks, embracing her 
inner Hermione). Speaking of ships, I don't think I'll ever be 
ready for Hr/Hagrid...

Anne U
(still upset about Madame Maxime telling Hagrid, "I zhoost 'av beeg 
bohnzz";)





From dradamsapple at yahoo.com  Tue May 27 04:28:08 2003
From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 04:28:08 -0000
Subject: I wanna play Quidditch!
Message-ID: <baupgo+mv4e@eGroups.com>

Ooops! I think I just sent a blank post!

Anyhow . . .

I'm just "surfing the net" for anything and everything HP  and found 
this fun site;

http://harrypotter.ea.com/quidditch/usa/home.html

(I hope that link works!)

click on 'trailer' and you'll see what I mean!
Enjoy!

Anna . . .




From psychic_serpent at yahoo.com  Tue May 27 13:42:05 2003
From: psychic_serpent at yahoo.com (psychic_serpent)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 13:42:05 -0000
Subject: Trouble with neighbors, suggestions welcome.
In-Reply-To: <000501c323ea$0ecdbeb0$9c01f50c@mac>
Message-ID: <bavpvd+dd7h@eGroups.com>

That's a possibility, but sometimes the police merely shrug about 
these things.  Even when the disturbance is at 3 am they can be 
rather blase about it.  And 'disturbing the peace' often only 
carries a token fine.  They'll be right back to arguing at top 
volume in no time.

You should definitely contact your building management to complain.  
The building next to our house (we live on a block where ours is the 
ONLY non-apartment building) is managed by a real estate company 
specializing in apartment management, and we were pestering them 
about the third-floor tenant so much (very, very loud music at all 
hours of the day and night) that they levied fines against the 
tenant and refused to renew his lease.  Even though we weren't 
tenants of the same building (and I can only assume that the other 
tenants were deaf not to have heard the racket), the management 
didn't feel like spending so much time on one troublemaker.  There's 
probably something in your lease about requiring tenants to keep 
noise down to a reasonable level.  You never know, you might even be 
able to sue the management for not making the other tenants comply 
with the terms of the lease.  Maybe if they're worried about a 
lawsuit they'll do something to shut up the shouters.


--Barb




--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Chase Wildstar" 
<Chasewildstar at a...> wrote:
> call the cops and press charges for disturbing the peace.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Saitaina" <saitaina at w...>
> To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 8:23 PM
> Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Trouble with neighbors, suggestions 
welcome.
> 
> 
> > Okay I've got these neighbors who seem to think their idea of a 
fun
> > time is shouting matches at all hours of the day.   They do it in
> > their apartment but they also do it on the front lawn of our 
apartment
> > building.  We live in a nice buisness district and I really don't
> > think it's polite of them to get into a screaming match on the 
front
> > lawn (let alone at three a clock in the morning and throw 
things).
> >
> > So my problem is, how do I handle this?  I can't ignore it, I've 
tried
> > but it got so bad one night I had to call the cops afraid he was
> > abusing her.   Do I have a leg to stand on to get them to stop?
> >
> > Saitaina
> > ****
> > My theory on housework is, if the item doesn't multiply, smell, 
catch
> > on fire or block the refrigerator door, let it be. No one cares. 
Why
> > should you?
> >
> > http://www.livejournal.com/users/saitaina
> >
> > Before you try to keep up with the Joneses, be sure they're not 
trying
> > to keep up with you.
> >
> >
> >
> > ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
> >
> > Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's 
Admin Files!
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
> >
> > Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip 
unnecessary material
> from posts to which you're replying!
> >
> > Is your message...
> > An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-
Announcements.
> > Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
> > Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
> > None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
> > Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -
- 
> MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> > ____________________________________________________________
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >




From abigailnus at yahoo.com  Tue May 27 15:36:52 2003
From: abigailnus at yahoo.com (abigailnus)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 15:36:52 -0000
Subject: Oldbies (WAS Re: Posts that get replies (or not))
In-Reply-To: <bauci4+hq5m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb00mk+dib8@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." <cindysphynx at c...> wrote:
> Abigail wrote:
> 
> > Can I have a definition on 'continuous and reasonably active', 
> >Cindy?  
> 
> 
> Uh . . . 
> 
> <scratches head>
> 
> Well, let's see.  "Continuous" would be you, uh, never unsubbed from 
> the list.  And, uh, "reasonably active" means that, erm, you post.  
> Sometimes.  

While we're on the topic of subscribing and posting, does anyone have any idea how 
many of the 7000+ members of HPfGU are actually still involved with the group?  When I 
joined 17 months ago there were only 4000 members, but does that mean that all of the 
3000 people who joined after I did are still lurking?  For that matter, how many members 
actually post to the group, regularly or otherwise?

Let's see, I've posted 79 times since delurking, which comes out to an average of 4.65 
posts per month.  In those 17 months, the average message count was 1542 posts per 
month (according to the monthly message counts on the group home page.  I've counted 
May as it is practically over).  If I'm an average poster that means that there are 330 
active members on the group every month.  That's a pretty rough estimate.  Some people 
post a lot more than I do, and many post less.  I haven't taken into consideration that a 
person's posting habbits change over time - a discussion that would have caught my 
interest a year ago might not interest me today, and I've seen prolific posters scale back 
their presence on the group over time.  If we accept 300 as a ballpark figure, however, 
that still means that less then 10% of the group memebership is actively participating in 
discussions.  That portion gets bigger when you consider that there are members who 
are no longer actively lurking, but by how much?

More importantly, by how much will membership and message counts increase after the 
release of OotP?

Abigail 




From hypercolor99 at hotmail.com  Tue May 27 16:17:57 2003
From: hypercolor99 at hotmail.com (alice_loves_cats)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 16:17:57 -0000
Subject: Oldbies (WAS Re: Posts that get replies (or not))
In-Reply-To: <bb00mk+dib8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb033l+2umr@eGroups.com>

Abigail pondered:

> More importantly, by how much will membership and message counts
increase after the 
> release of OotP?

Immensly, probably. I dare say we'll break the record of around 3200 a
month. I must say I'm glad I don't get the e-mails, but use the Yahoo
platform. 

Actually, membership is increasing quite fast... sometimes up to 50
people join a day. I wonder when the list will really get out of
hand... "out of hand" would mean, let's say, that only about 1% of the
members would be reading ALL the messages, spending many hours a day
doing so... scary.

Alice






From abigailnus at yahoo.com  Tue May 27 16:48:16 2003
From: abigailnus at yahoo.com (abigailnus)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 16:48:16 -0000
Subject: Oldbies (WAS Re: Posts that get replies (or not))
In-Reply-To: <bb033l+2umr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb04sg+oao4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "alice_loves_cats" <hypercolor99 at h...> 
> Actually, membership is increasing quite fast... sometimes up to 50
> people join a day. I wonder when the list will really get out of
> hand... "out of hand" would mean, let's say, that only about 1% of the
> members would be reading ALL the messages, spending many hours a day
> doing so... scary.

Well, I don't think I've ever read all the messages.  Even when I was just starting out, I 
picked topics that appealed to me, although I did read every message on the topic.  Of 
course, back then, all discussions were new to me, so quite often I would read nearly all 
the messages.  Even then, however, I'd have dead periods when nothing caught my 
fancy.  These days I'm much the same, but there is a group of posters whose posts get 
read no matter what the subject.

Abigail




From rainbow at rainbowbrite.net  Tue May 27 17:22:21 2003
From: rainbow at rainbowbrite.net (Katy Cartee)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 13:22:21 -0400
Subject: Large Gryffindor Picture
References: <1053787837.418.73476.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <00a801c32474$887437f0$2302a8c0@sysonline.com>

Does anyone have a large image of the Gryffindor crest that they could email
me? I've been trying to find an image to scan, but have had no luck :( Any
help would be greatly appreciated!! Thank you! :)

~Katy~




From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Tue May 27 18:24:47 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 18:24:47 -0000
Subject: Oldbies (WAS Re: Posts that get replies (or not))
In-Reply-To: <bb033l+2umr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb0ahf+at31@eGroups.com>

Alice wrote:

>I dare say we'll break the record of around 3200 a
> month. I must say I'm glad I don't get the e-mails, but use the 
>Yahoo platform. 

Yeah.  Me too.  It totally freaks me out to have so many e-mails hit 
my box.  It also makes me feel compelled to reply to every single 
one of them, as though the e-mail came to me personally when it 
really went to a list of 7000 people!  

>I wonder when the list will really get out of
> hand... "out of hand" would mean, let's say, that only about 1% of 
>the members would be reading ALL the messages, spending many hours 
>a day doing so... scary.

Like Abigail, I read the main list pretty selectively these days.  
Post-OoP will be weird, though.  I anticipate that it will take me 
at least a week to read OoP.  See, I've ordered two books for four 
people, so I'll have to share.  Also, I want to savor and enjoy OoP, 
not race through it. And I will certainly want to read it twice 
before I post about it or read the main list. 

So I will be hundreds or even *thousands* of messages behind when I 
finally get back to the main list, so I won't take the time to catch 
up. I'll probably just start right off posting -- "Hey, did anyone 
else notice the gleam in Voldemort's eye?"  ;-)

I kind of figure that lots of people will do the same.  Urgh!

Cindy -- chanting "I will take my time with OoP, I will take my time 
with OoP, I will . . . "




From ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com  Tue May 27 22:04:05 2003
From: ms_petra_pan at yahoo.com (Petra Pan)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 15:04:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Transliteration/Romanization (was) "Foreign" students at Hogwarts (Cho)
In-Reply-To: <batdt0+413k@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030527220405.69924.qmail@web21105.mail.yahoo.com>

Yours truly:
> I am however surprised at the ways both 
> you and DrMM break up the syllable that 
> is 'Chang.'  Could it not also be simply 
> 'chan' and the essentially silent 'g' 
> dropped altogether?  Because really, the 
> syllable-closing consonant sound is not 
> 'g' but 'ng' which is closer to 'n' than 
> a hard 'g.'

Lina, in part:
> No, it couldn't, as that is not
> how Japanese names would be 
> written. "ng" is a particular
> nasal which, as I previously
> stated, does not exist in
> Japanese language (only one, the
> "n" exists). (The only time that
> "ng" would be used as a nasal in
> transliteration of Japanese would
> be for, perhaps, a product, which
> would lend the name to sound more
> foreign [though why they would
> want the product to sound more
> Chinese is beyond me ;D].) IIRC,
> when Chinese names are pronounced
> in Japanese, if there were a "ng"
> nasal instead of an "n" nasal, it
> would become "n" regardless in
> Japanese. So, "Chang" in Japanese
> would be "CHAN" (all the while
> looking awfully like "Chou", a
> counter which could also mean
> "lengthen"), a "transliteration" of 
> which would be written above the
> character in katakana, a group of 
> phonetic characters generally used
> with foreign words. 

Um...you do realize that in my 
original post I did suggest that in 
Japanese, 'Chang' would become 'Chan' 
just as you did above?  Previously, 
the suggestion is to break before AND 
after 'n' which then leaves the 'g' 
on its own, which in turn seems 
incorrect.  Sorry if I was unclear...
or am I not seeing the difference 
between the "CHAN" of your suggestion 
and that of mine?  <eg>

Lina, in another part:
> When (mainland) Chinese names are
> romanized, at least in the US, the 
> names are written using pinyin,
> regardless of the person's dialectal 
> origin; IIRC, the US no longer
> accepts Wade-Giles transliterations 
> from the mainland (although, and
> again, If I Recall Correctly, people 
> from Taiwan and Singapore can use
> Wade-Giles as this is the particular
> romanization system used there; from
> HK, they [generally] use the set
> Cantonese romanization [though the
> term for such slips my mind]). Thus,
> for my friend LI Mingjiang, who is
> from Sichuan and thus speaks
> Sichuan-ese in addition to the
> regular putonghua (Mandarin), his
> name was romanized as Li Mingjiang
> instead of that of his particular
> dialect (Li Men---something or
> another, I forget; I only can speak
> Mandarin and a conversational level
> of Shanghai-ese), as it is easier.
> This is how it is done throughout
> the rest of the country as well:
> When someone from a different area
> (e.g. Hong Kong) is being referred
> to, one would use their Mandarin
> pronunciation when speaking and
> romanization when writing (on the
> flip side, I do not believe that
> Hu Jintao is referred to as "Hu
> Jintao" in HK, but whatever the
> Cantonese reading of his name is;
> this is certainly how it is done
> in Shanghai). 

Yes, the above is true in most part 
of people whose names were recently 
romanized and therefore use pinyin 
of the pronunciation in putonghua 
of their names.

But Pinyin is a relatively recent 
system.  Remember when 'Peking' 
officially became 'Beijing' not all 
that long ago?  Though the Chinese 
government of the Communist Mainland 
can enforce the changeover of how 
their capital's name is to be spelled, 
it can't force the reform of all names 
already in existence of Chinese origin 
to conform to pinyin of putonghua.

Thus names romanized before the 
systems became official are all over 
the place, in terms of spelling.  An 
awful lot of the times, pronouncing 
the romanization sounds only somewhat 
like the correct pronunciation.

Then there's the fact that the 
romanization of Chinese doesn't 
produce a one-to-one transliteration.  
For example, in my years living in 
San Francisco, I have known an 
unbelievable number of Wong's.  Though 
these last names are spelled the same 
way in the roman alphabet, they are 
actually several different ones in 
Chinese that happens to sound very 
similar.

This is of course why delving into the 
etymology of names that are product of 
transliteration often involves going 
back to the original characters/
ideograms, which was my point.  And 
unless JKR actually went to the lengths 
of picking out Cho Chang's name in 
Chinese in the first place, reversing 
the transliteration probably involved 
arbitrary choices.

Asprin, anyone?  <g>

Interesting point though, is it the US 
government that insist on pinyin?  Or 
is it the Chinese government of the 
Communist Mainland who's insisting, as 
the paperwork identifying the names 
are generated there?  I rather suspect 
that Uncle Sam would take any 
romanization that would enable the 
G-men to file such paperwork without 
having to learn the Chinese script.  
While overseas, how a Chinese word/name 
become romanized is surely beyond 
Mainland China's control and the care 
of the government that wouldn't be 
reading such words in its native script.

Petra
a
n  :)

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From annemehr at yahoo.com  Wed May 28 00:04:49 2003
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 00:04:49 -0000
Subject: Oldbies (WAS Re: Posts that get replies (or not))
In-Reply-To: <bb0ahf+at31@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb0uf1+99rn@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." <cindysphynx at c...> 
wrote:
 
> So I will be hundreds or even *thousands* of messages behind when I 
> finally get back to the main list,

Yeah, me too.

>so I won't take the time to catch 
> up. I'll probably just start right off posting -- "Hey, did anyone 
> else notice the gleam in Voldemort's eye?"  ;-)
> 
> I kind of figure that lots of people will do the same.  Urgh!
> 
> Cindy -- chanting "I will take my time with OoP, I will take my time 
> with OoP, I will . . . "

I think I will take your idea  -- read it twice before going back to 
the group.  I *always* inhale the book the first time, and then savor 
it the second time (but *never* spot the significance of names like 
"Remus Lupin" for Pete's sake!)

Then I figure I'll read some of the first posts, out of curiousity, to 
see how well-thought-out they seem to be.  Then I'm afraid I'll skip 
ahead to the current ones and go from there.  I don't see how anyone 
would ever be able to read them all!

So, maybe in around mid-August, we could ask people what their 
favorite OoP posts & threads were so far, in case anyone missed a 
really good one?  And if you see your favorite appear, don't post it 
again -- that could keep the number of *those* posts down to something 
reasonable?  I'm sure many of the good ones will cause long threads 
you can't help but notice, but surely not all of them?

Annemehr,
paranoid to miss really great theories in the flood tide after 
Hurricane Jo...




From Mhochberg at aol.com  Wed May 28 01:03:39 2003
From: Mhochberg at aol.com (Mhochberg at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 21:03:39 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Oldbies (WAS Re: Posts that get replies (or not))
Message-ID: <182.1b9aa1c2.2c0564eb@aol.com>

cindysphynx at comcast.net writes:

>> I dare say we'll break the record of around 3200 a month. <<


About 6 years ago, I was part of a CompuServe forum that was receiving over 
1,000 posts a day. It was wild at times but good management and teamwork helped 
us to keep it fun for everyone. The biggest key was breaking it into 
manageable areas and keeping the subject lines accurate. This way you could read the 
topics that interested you and ignore the rest. 

It was a relief when it slowed down to only 600-700 a day!

>> Also, I want to savor and enjoy OoP, not race through it. <<


That is a VERY good idea. I learned my lesson with GoF. I raced through it, 
worrying about who was going to die, and didn't get to enjoy it until my third 
reading. 

---Mary





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From rvotaw at i-55.com  Wed May 28 01:22:37 2003
From: rvotaw at i-55.com (Richelle Votaw)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 20:22:37 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Oldbies (WAS Re: Posts that get replies (or not))
References: <182.1b9aa1c2.2c0564eb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <014e01c324b7$a0accc40$e79ecdd1@RVotaw>


>> Also, I want to savor and enjoy OoP, not race through it. <<

Mary wrote:

> That is a VERY good idea. I learned my lesson with GoF. I raced through it, 
> worrying about who was going to die, and didn't get to enjoy it until my third 
> reading. 

I'm in a bit of a different position than most, as this is the first HP book I'm sitting around waiting for.  I had all four books sitting there before I started reading them, and I still inhaled GoF so fast my eyes were blurring.  And I plan on reading OotP the first time that way too.  I'm teaching summer school, so I'll have to be at work Monday morning, it's got to be read by then.  Plus I teach Sunday School Sunday morning, so I'd prefer to be finished by then.  The 26th will be my last day of Summer school, so I'll read it properly after that.  

I'm even dreaming about reading it quite frequently.  Last week I dreamed some bookstore was storing 83 copies of OotP in my classroom. (I counted them in my dream, weird.)  So I snuck a peek at one and was about to turn to the second page when I woke up.

Last night I dreamed it was June 21st, I was back home with my book from the midnight opening and got up to Chapter 9 before I woke up.  I remembered quite a bit of what I "read" immediately after I woke up, but it disappeared pretty quick.  I do remember a good bit about doors (from the cover, I suppose).  And at the beginning of Chapter 5 was a comment from JKR to the readers that this was the last book to have Quidditch as it was too fast paced to write anymore.  Huh?  I guess from the PoA movie Quidditch concerns.

Richelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From peabwain at yahoo.com  Wed May 28 01:56:49 2003
From: peabwain at yahoo.com (amanda hill)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 18:56:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bookstore Parties Anyone?
Message-ID: <20030528015649.87853.qmail@web41805.mail.yahoo.com>

Long time lurker here, taking a break from making
shadow puppets on the wall to see if anyone out there
will be in Las Vegas, NV on June 21 to get their book.

	
My sister and I will be driving down to get our book
and celebrate my birthday. (My birthday is on Harry
Potter Day WooHoo!! Im so lucky). I looked on the
Barnes and Nobel, and the Borders website, but I
couldnt find anything about a HP party. So if there
is anybody out there who knows where the best party is
(for grown-ups) in Las Vegas you can email me off list
if you dont want to post for all to see. 

I know being on the internet no one wants to give out
too much information. Im not asking for your address,
and Im not an internet stalker, I just want to go to
a fun party with the other Harry Potter fanatics.

Thanks.
Peabwain

__________________________________
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The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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From binx04 at yahoo.com  Wed May 28 02:02:26 2003
From: binx04 at yahoo.com (marie jones)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 19:02:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: To Be A Kid Again...
Message-ID: <20030528020226.57668.qmail@web41609.mail.yahoo.com>

>Yesterday I attended a wedding and during the
ceremony I excused myself to go to the bathroom which
was in the basement of the church. When I went down
the stairs I found several little kids running around
playing very loudly. Some had pen-lights and others
held sticks which they had obviously gathered from
outside. They were flashing their lights/pointing
their sticks at one another and shouting at the top of
their lungs words I couldn't make out.After watching
them for a few moments, I asked one of the kids, as he
ran by, what they were saying.

>"Expelliarmus!" he cried, "Serpensortia!"

>Ah, children after me own heart. Wished that I could
join them.

>-Gail B...who whispered in the kid's ear that he
should cast Cruicio 
> (because I am EVIL). When I did, I was immediately
reprehended by him who told me that he couldn't cast
that spell 'coz it was an Unforgivable.

What a wonderful Harry Potter moment to witness. 
Once when I was about 16 I went to a neighborhood
gathering at the local church. My friends and I saw
some small children running on the gym floor then
sliding on their knees for several feet. We thought
that looked like great fun and decided to try it.
Being much heavier at 16 then we were at 6, and the
laws of friction working as they do... we melted holes
in the knees of our pants. 
Its a sad day when you find you can no longer do the
things that children do 

Binx (who isnt evil... just up to no good).

__________________________________
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From heidit at netbox.com  Wed May 28 02:14:44 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 22:14:44 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Bookstore Parties Anyone?
Message-ID: <mailman.50.1576049047.5361.hpfgu-otchatter@archive.hpfgu.org>

Please visit muari.org - a project initiated by The Leaky Cauldron along with sites like FictionAlley, hpana, sugarquill, and others - we're working with meetup.com on coordinating for parties in over 500 cities and towns aroung the world. 

I posted our press release over on Announcements earlier today, too. But feel free to ask if you have any questions. 



Heidi Tandy
*Ask me about Nimbus - 2003*
Http://www.hp2003.org 
-----Original Message-----
From: amanda hill <peabwain at yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 18:56:49 
To:HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Bookstore Parties Anyone?

Real-To:  amanda hill <peabwain at yahoo.com>

Long time lurker here, taking a break from making
shadow puppets on the wall to see if anyone out there
will be in Las Vegas, NV on June 21 to get their book.

	
My sister and I will be driving down to get our book
and celebrate my birthday. (My birthday is on Harry
Potter Day WooHoo!! I?m so lucky). I looked on the
Barnes and Nobel, and the Borders website, but I
couldn?t find anything about a HP party. So if there
is anybody out there who knows where the best party is
(for grown-ups) in Las Vegas you can email me off list
if you don?t want to post for all to see. 

I know being on the internet no one wants to give out
too much information. I?m not asking for your address,
and I?m not an internet stalker, I just want to go to
a fun party with the other Harry Potter fanatics.

Thanks.
Peabwain

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com


________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________

Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/

Remember to use accurate subject headings and to snip unnecessary material from posts to which you're replying!

Is your message...
An announcement of merchandise, news etc.? Send it to HPFGU-Announcements.
Movie-related? Send it to HPFGU-Movie.
Referencing *only* the books? Send it to HPforGrownups.
None of the above? OT? Send it to HPFGU-OTChatter.
Unsure? Other questions? Ask your personal List Elf or the Mods -- MagicalMods at yahoogroups.com

Unsubscribing? Email HPFGU-OTChatter-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
____________________________________________________________ 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 






From pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no  Wed May 28 02:32:01 2003
From: pengolodh_sc at yahoo.no (pengolodh_sc)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 02:32:01 -0000
Subject: Bookstore Parties Anyone?
Message-ID: <bb1731+c074@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Heidi Tandy" <heidit at n...> 
wrote:
> Please visit muari.org - a project initiated by The Leaky
> Cauldron along with sites like FictionAlley, hpana, sugarquill,
> and others - we're working with meetup.com on coordinating for
> parties in over 500 cities and towns aroung the world. 
> 
> I posted our press release over on Announcements earlier today,
> too. But feel free to ask if you have any questions. 

[snip]

1.  Typing in only muari.org sends me instead to 
falcon.mantissa.net/, announcing that "This page is a place holder 
for the home page of your own web site" - it seems you need to 
include "www", to get http://www.muari.org/ .

2.  On the post in Announcements, the link will most likely not work 
for many people, because Yahoo! included the comma at the end of the 
link, and clicking on it will try to send you to "www.muari.org,/".  
When posting links in Yahoo!Groups, I always try to remember to 
separate punctiation from the URL with a space.

Best regards
Christian Stub?




From timregan at microsoft.com  Wed May 28 03:07:42 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 03:07:42 -0000
Subject: Searching for G (or PG) rated fanfic
Message-ID: <bb195u+ji3q@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

My daughter and I are trying out writing a fanfic as our latest 
evening and weekend project. She's 10. We'd both like to read some 
good G rated (or maybe PG rated) fanfic to get a sense of what other 
fanfic authors are up to.

How do I search for this?

I tried Fiction Alley. The search engine is done house-by-house and 
doesn't allow one to restrict the search results by rating. The list 
of new postings was mainly R and PG13 rated (and the summaries made 
Meg giggle lots). The `nifflers' recommendations were similarly 
skewed. 

Am I looking in the wrong place? Is there a good fanfic site with a 
search engine or taxonomy based on rating?

Cheers,

Dumbledad.




From golden_faile at yahoo.com  Wed May 28 03:25:07 2003
From: golden_faile at yahoo.com (golden_faile)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 03:25:07 -0000
Subject: Oldbies (WAS Re: Posts that get replies (or not))
In-Reply-To: <bb00mk+dib8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb1a6j+scva@eGroups.com>

> > 
> > Well, let's see.  "Continuous" would be you, uh, never unsubbed 
from 
> > the list.  And, uh, "reasonably active" means that, erm, you 
post.  
> > Sometimes.  


I'm still here, I've never unsubscribed. I'm more of a lurker than 
anything, but I post from time to time. 


Laila




From helen at odegard.com  Wed May 28 03:33:03 2003
From: helen at odegard.com (Helen)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 03:33:03 -0000
Subject: Searching for G (or PG) rated fanfic
In-Reply-To: <bb195u+ji3q@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb1alf+gb90@eGroups.com>

Dumbledad,

fanfiction.net will let you search by rating, but the quality is 
really hit or miss. A while back there was a thread in Fiction Alley 
Park about good G-Rated fics, you can find it here:

http://www.fictionalley.org/fictionalleypark/forums/showthread.php?
s=&threadid=29904&highlight=g+rated

Narcissa Malfoy has some excellent G-rated recs on her Live Journal

http://www.livejournal.com/users/narcissam/17464.html

IMO, GoF and PoA are really PG-13. You will find a lot of fanfics 
with that rating that are just as tame as PoA or GoF. PG-13 is a 
wide range and there are some who rate their fics PG-13 instead of 
PG because they think no one will read PG or G and there are some 
who really should be caling their PG-13 fics R. So, if a fic looks 
like it might be interesting, but is PG-13, go ahead and read it 
first. You may find perfectly fine PG-13 fics out there you can 
share with your daughter.  Since so many fics have to do with 
romance (of all ratings), the bigger challenge may actually be 
finding fics that aren't full of sappy romance a ten year old 
probably wouldn't be interested in.

Best of luck!




From anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net  Wed May 28 03:39:38 2003
From: anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net (Anne)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 03:39:38 -0000
Subject: Oldbies and trying to keep up
In-Reply-To: <bb04sg+oao4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb1b1q+ap6k@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "abigailnus" 
<abigailnus at y...> wrote:
> 
> Well, I don't think I've ever read all the messages.  Even when I 
was just starting out, I 
> picked topics that appealed to me, although I did read every 
message on the topic.  Of 
> course, back then, all discussions were new to me, so quite often I 
would read nearly all 
> the messages.  Even then, however, I'd have dead periods when 
nothing caught my 
> fancy.  These days I'm much the same, but there is a group of 
posters whose posts get 
> read no matter what the subject.
> 

You were wise to take this tack, Abigail. I joined HPFGU about 6 
months ago (right after finishing GOF for the first time) and back 
then was trying to read every message. I managed to keep up for about 
3-4 months, I guess, but in early April my computer died and it was 
about a week before we got a new one up and running. And of course I 
missed about 600 messages during that week - and that's when I 
basically gave up attempting to follow "The Big List" (which, I 
noted, gained over 2000 members in the 4 months I was semi-active on 
it). Anyway, every time I dipped my foot into the pool, it seemed 
like I was being hit by the same little ripples as before (the same 
topics over and over again, but mostly by new people who'd just 
joined the group). I do find the HP-verse endlessly fascinating, but 
I guess I needed to think about other things during the final 
excruciating wait for OOP to be published (yes, I did finally order 
my copy). So I started reading a lot of fan fiction. Mostly I'm 
focusing on a few of the BNFs (AngieJ, Lissanne, Lori, now working on 
Barb's HP and the Psychic Serpent, which is lots of fun). There are 
over 70 THOUSAND fan fics on www.fanfiction.net alone, not to mention 
the strictly HP fic sites like FictionAlley. There's a lot of really 
good writing out there; there's also a lot of dreck (poor plots, bad 
grammar and punctuation, MarySues, etc.) so you kind of have to pick 
your way across the literary chasm, like jumping from one ice floe to 
another.

Anyway thanks for reminding me about the folks whose posts I pretty 
much *always* read when I was really keeping up  with the list. I'll 
have to go dig through the archives to find their stuff (GulPlum, 
Steve bboy_mn and even some of the TBAY and SHIPping debates).

Anne U
(who really hopes OOTP lives up to our expectations...)





From binx04 at yahoo.com  Wed May 28 04:17:03 2003
From: binx04 at yahoo.com (Binx)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 21:17:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Oldbies (WAS Re: Posts that get replies (or not))
Message-ID: <20030528041703.22056.qmail@web41601.mail.yahoo.com>

Abigail 
<snip posting/member stats>
>...If we accept 300 as a ballpark figure, however, 
>that still means that less then 10% of the group
membership is actively participating in >discussions.

Binx:						
 (Waves to her sister, who is lurking here somewhere,
making shadow puppets on the wall).

I cant speak for all of the long time lurkers, just
myself. I joined this group at the beginning of this
year, so by definition Im still a newbie.  This is my
first post.  The reason I have never post before
(aside from a mild fear of the Grammar Gods and the
Punctuation Police) is the voyeur in me just likes to
watch. 

There have been many times when I wanted to respond to
someone, but then I would see that someone else had
already posted my thought and said it so much better
than I could have. Still, I am repeatedly amazed that
we are all reading the same books and finding so many
different interpretations of the text.

In another post about what posts she reads Abigail
says...
>there is a group of posters whose posts (I) read no
matter what the subject.

Me again:
Same here. And youre part of that group. :-)
	
Binx (who is determined to get the hang of posting and
be an active member of the group)

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From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed May 28 11:57:14 2003
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (David)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 11:57:14 -0000
Subject: Oldbies and BNFs
In-Reply-To: <batb67+lpi3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb286q+eq29@eGroups.com>

Cindy wrote:

> Anyway, about this title of "Olbie" . . . I suggest that 
an "olbie" 
> be defined as someone who has been a continuous and reasonably 
> active member of the list for over one year.  'Cause under that 
> definition, I get to be an "Oldbie!"  ;-)

I don't know about definitions, but I think a reasonably good test 
is when you have been away for a few weeks or more, and then start 
to post.

>From the point of view of the the then-active list, a complete 
stranger pops up, saying, 'Hi, I'm back', with the result that a 
slew of other complete strangers crawl out of the woodwork, 
saying, 'Hi, Cindy' (or Suzanne, or Jeralyn, as the case may be).

Looking at it the other way round, you know you are an oldbie when 
you come back after a few weeks and it's the active list that is the 
strangers.

Anne U wrote:

> Mostly I'm focusing on a few of the BNFs (AngieJ, Lissanne, Lori, 
> now working on Barb's HP and the Psychic Serpent, which is lots of 
> fun).

Here's another term requiring definition.  I assume BNF stands for 
Big Name Fan?  How does one decide one of those?  Is there a list 
somewhere?  I suppose it's too much to hope that all names are equal 
here, but seeing a categorisation like that does make me perversely 
proud that I don't know who Lissanne is.  (Apologies to him/her if 
it's somebody regular here under another name.)

David




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Wed May 28 12:38:53 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 08:38:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Oldbies (WAS Re: Posts that get replies (or not))
In-Reply-To: <bb1a6j+scva@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030528123853.40843.qmail@web41114.mail.yahoo.com>

 --- golden_faile <golden_faile at yahoo.com> wrote: > >
> 
> > > Well, let's see.  "Continuous" would be you, uh,
> never unsubbed 
> from 
> > > the list.  And, uh, "reasonably active" means
> that, erm, you 
> post.  
> > > Sometimes.  
> 
> 
> I'm still here, I've never unsubscribed. I'm more of
> a lurker than 
> anything, but I post from time to time. 
> 
> 
> Laila
> 
I'm with Laila, mostly lurking. I've been here for
ages, going on 3 years next month, IIRC. I hardly ever
post to the main list, though it's mostly because
someone else has already made my point by the time I
get around to it. The most people see of me is as the
Birthday Elf. :)

Sheryll

=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Wed May 28 13:46:26 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 13:46:26 -0000
Subject: Oldbies and Lurkers -- Show Yourselves!  ;-)
In-Reply-To: <bb1a6j+scva@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb2eji+n8li@eGroups.com>

OK, I just gotta ask:

Abigail wrote:

>I've posted 79 times since delurking, which comes out to an average
>of 4.65 posts per month.


How did you figure out how many times you've posted since delurking, 
Abigail?  Did you suffer through the Yahoo search function?

Laila wrote:

> I'm still here, I've never unsubscribed. I'm more of a lurker than 
> anything, but I post from time to time. 

Hi, Laila!  I remember you mostly from OTC posts.  ::waves 
cheerfully::

You and Binx have given me an idea.  Maybe it would be cool if 
the "oldbies" who don't post much and the "newbie" lurkers who don't 
post much popped up to remind us all of their presence?  

You know, say what you've been up to, what you like, whether you'll 
be posting after OoP.  All of that sort of small talk as we wait out 
the remaining <checks calendar> 25 days until OoP arrives.

Cindy -- who got a new watch for Mothers' Day but who doesn't have 
the heart to tell her dh and kids that she can't really read the 
teeny, tiny dial because she is starting to need reading glasses.




From hypercolor99 at hotmail.com  Wed May 28 15:19:38 2003
From: hypercolor99 at hotmail.com (alice_loves_cats)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 15:19:38 -0000
Subject: Oldbies and trying to keep up
In-Reply-To: <bb1b1q+ap6k@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb2k2a+3e8t@eGroups.com>

Anne U wrote:

> You were wise to take this tack, Abigail. I joined HPFGU about 6 
> months ago (right after finishing GOF for the first time) and back 
> then was trying to read every message. I managed to keep up for 
about 
> 3-4 months, I guess, 

Alice:

Woah. I kept it up for about three weeks, I quit sleeping, and just 
read. But that had a reason: a WANTED to be half-dead all the time, 
because it completely stopped me THINKING, and that was something I 
really wanted to avoid. I loved the fact that I was sleepy, tired, 
nasty and looking really downtrodden all the time, cause it matched 
my mood. So for some free psychology, I recommend surfing the all 
night. I developed some sort of an illness by the end of it, anyway, 
mission completed. :-)))

Anne U:

> So I started reading a lot of fan fiction. Mostly I'm 
> focusing on a few of the BNFs (AngieJ, Lissanne, Lori, now working 
on 
> Barb's HP and the Psychic Serpent, which is lots of fun). 

Alice:

BNFs??? (Sorry, am newbie by all definitions...)

Anne U:

>(poor plots, bad 
> grammar and punctuation, MarySues, etc.) 

Alice:

MarySues??? (see above)

Anne U:

> Anyway thanks for reminding me about the folks whose posts I pretty 
> much *always* read when I was really keeping up  with the list. 

Alice:

I have my own favourite, but I'm not giving it away. Would be really 
stupid to have a crush on an otherwise unknown HPFGU-poster, wouldn't 
it? :-)))

Love, Alice
---back to Corporate Finance - exam tomorrow




From abigailnus at yahoo.com  Wed May 28 15:55:54 2003
From: abigailnus at yahoo.com (abigailnus)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 15:55:54 -0000
Subject: Oldbies and Lurkers -- Show Yourselves!  ;-)
In-Reply-To: <bb2eji+n8li@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb2m6a+3l41@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." 
<cindysphynx at c...> wrote:
> OK, I just gotta ask:
> 
> Abigail wrote:
> 
> >I've posted 79 times since delurking, which comes out to an 
average
> >of 4.65 posts per month.
> 
> 
> How did you figure out how many times you've posted since 
delurking, 
> Abigail?  Did you suffer through the Yahoo search function?

Uh-huh.  That makes me sound rather sad, doesn't it?

Now that I think about it, though, there's a section in the 
Fantastic Posts that lists the major posters to the different groups 
and how many times each of them has posted.  How did the person who 
wrote this page count the number of posts from each major 
contributer without the Yahoo! search function?  More to the point, 
how did this person slog through the messages of so many posters, 
and manage to count them?

<pause>

Cindy, I've just taken a look at the HPfGU posting hall of fame 
which has not been updated since November.  You delurked three 
months before I did.  I've posted 79 times in 17 months.  You posted 
786 times in 13 months, plus however many times in the past 7 
months, and you think I'm an active poster?

Abigail




From cindysphynx at comcast.net  Wed May 28 16:55:47 2003
From: cindysphynx at comcast.net (Cindy C.)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 16:55:47 -0000
Subject: Oldbies and Lurkers -- Show Yourselves!  ;-)
In-Reply-To: <bb2m6a+3l41@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb2pmj+eobu@eGroups.com>

Abigail wrote:

> Now that I think about it, though, there's a section in the 
> Fantastic Posts that lists the major posters to the different 
>groups and how many times each of them has posted.  How did the 
>person who wrote this page count the number of posts from each 
>major contributer without the Yahoo! search function?  More to the 
>point, how did this person slog through the messages of so many 
>posters, and manage to count them?


Uh, actually, I prepared that list of how many times each person 
posted.  I was just hoping you had figured out an easier way to do 
it!  
;-)

The way I did it last fall was that Paul Kippes, one of the genius 
techies who helps with list administration, worked some kind of 
magic.  He generated what we fondly refer to as "Paul's Magical 
Spreadsheet."  It is an Excel spreadsheet of every post ever posted 
to the list, the author's e-mail, the date, and the subject header.  
With the Magical Spreadsheet, I was able to simply use the Excel 
count function and ask it to count the occurrences of each 
individual poster.  

Actually, I'm hoping to have the time to do an updated table before 
OoP.  I'm very much hoping that my own posting rate will have fallen 
substantially.  ;-)

> Cindy, I've just taken a look at the HPfGU posting hall of fame 
> which has not been updated since November.  You delurked three 
> months before I did.  I've posted 79 times in 17 months.  You 
>posted 786 times in 13 months, plus however many times in the past 
>7 months, and you think I'm an active poster?


Shhhhhhh!  Keep your voice down!  It's supposed to be a secret!  ;-)

Yeah, I was an active newbie, that's true.  But it's not my fault!  
We didn't have the moderation of new members back then, so newbies 
like me could post all day and all night, refusing to combine posts, 
posting one-liners and generally being a total nuisance.  I'd never 
be able to get away with that today.  I'd have, oh, maybe 79 posts, 
I'm thinking.  ;-)

So, Abigail, had you joined when I did, you'd have 786 posts too!

Cindy -- who is still outranked by such luminaries as Amy Z, Amanda, 
Penny, Catlady, Dee and Neil, and who thinks Darrin, Eloise and 
Richelle will rise substantially in the revised rankings

Rankings are at:

http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/faq/history.html




From tammy at mauswerks.net  Wed May 28 16:19:46 2003
From: tammy at mauswerks.net (Tammy Rizzo)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 12:19:46 -0400
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Oldbies and Lurkers -- Show Yourselves!  ;-)
In-Reply-To: <bb2eji+n8li@eGroups.com>
References: <bb1a6j+scva@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3ED4A962.8917.3038F19@localhost>

On 28 May 2003 at 13:46, Cindy C. wrote:

> You and Binx have given me an idea.  Maybe it would be cool if 
> the "oldbies" who don't post much and the "newbie" lurkers who don't
> post much popped up to remind us all of their presence?  
> 
> You know, say what you've been up to, what you like, whether you'll be
> posting after OoP.  All of that sort of small talk as we wait out the
> remaining <checks calendar> 25 days until OoP arrives.
> 
> Cindy -- who got a new watch for Mothers' Day but who doesn't have the
> heart to tell her dh and kids that she can't really read the teeny,
> tiny dial because she is starting to need reading glasses.

Now me.  HI!  I'm Tammy.  I tend to lurk because other smarter-seeming-than-me 
people say what I want to say before I can say it and better than I could say it, but 
I'm here and I read nearly every post on this list and the main one.  I love HP (of 
course!), both book and movie versions, and I also really enjoy playing The Sims on 
my computer, and reading lots of varied Science Fiction/Fantasy books.  I write, but 
the muses in my head have all been fighting so loud for attention that I can't hear 
any of them right now, so I'm not writing currently.  I've just finished another re-read 
of Years 1-4, and may or may not be able to get all the way through them before my 
book arrives in the mail sometime AFTER June 21 (*snif snif*), at which point I will 
lock myself in a closet with a jug of water and some pork rinds and pizza, and will 
read until I can't see the pages anymore.  I hope my hubby survives the experience!  
:)  Anyhoo, once I've read OotP at least twice, I'll get back to lurking here and on the 
main list, watching for the opportunity to look smart by posting something intelligent.

Cindy -- go get some inexpensive magnifying eyeglasses so you can read your 
watch your lovely family gave to you.  :)

***
Tammy
tammy at mauswerks.net





From chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com  Wed May 28 20:44:40 2003
From: chrisnlorrie at yahoo.com (alora)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 20:44:40 -0000
Subject: Oldbies and Lurkers -- Show Yourselves!  ;-)
In-Reply-To: <bb2eji+n8li@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb373o+avad@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." <> 
>> You and Binx have given me an idea.  Maybe it would be cool if 
> the "oldbies" who don't post much and the "newbie" lurkers who 
don't 
> post much popped up to remind us all of their presence?  
> 
> You know, say what you've been up to, what you like, whether 
you'll 
> be posting after OoP.  All of that sort of small talk as we wait 
out 
> the remaining <checks calendar> 25 days until OoP arrives.
> 
> Cindy -- who got a new watch for Mothers' Day but who doesn't have 
> the heart to tell her dh and kids that she can't really read the 
> teeny, tiny dial because she is starting to need reading glasses.

Lurk, lurk, lurk.  I am waay out of my league when it comes to 
posting on the HPfGU list.  But I so enjoy everything I read, so 
everyone keep it up!!  You are my only link to others that enjoy all 
things Harry Potter.  Everyone I know (adults, that is) thinks I am 
weird for being a crazed fan.  I think my kids finally think I've 
gone overboard.  I have no one to obsess with ;).  Anyway, I'm 
reading GoF for the millionth time, getting ready for OoP.  And I've 
already hounded the Wal-Mart manager for that cardboard standee 
promoting The OoP.  I want it! :D  They've already given me all the 
card board thingies from the toy section - think maybe they will 
throw me out if I beg for the OoP standee?? Sad, isn't it?  I live 
in TX with my hubby and four kids, dog and two birds.  Help me make 
it to June 21st, pleeeeeeeeasssee.  

Alora





From abigailnus at yahoo.com  Wed May 28 21:19:11 2003
From: abigailnus at yahoo.com (abigailnus)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 21:19:11 -0000
Subject: Mary Sue
In-Reply-To: <bb2k2a+3e8t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb394f+2k8s@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "alice_loves_cats" <hypercolor99 at h...> 
wrote:
> Anne U:
> 
> >(poor plots, bad 
> > grammar and punctuation, MarySues, etc.) 
> 
> Alice:
> 
> MarySues??? (see above)

Ah, Mary Sue.  I take you haven't read much fanfic, have you, Alice?  Mary Sue was the 
name of a half-Vulcan, half-Human character in an early Star Trek fanfic (this was 
back when fanfics were being distributed in printed magazines).  She was so perfect, 
apparently, that she had Spock, Kirk and McCoy madly in love with her.  The author of 
that fanfic was named Mary Sue.  Since then Mary Sue has become a byname for a 
character who is a blatant insertion of the author (or rather an idealised version of the 
author) into a story.  Mary Sue is perfect.  She's beautiful, she's smart, she's funny, 
and most importantly, everybody loves her.  The men all want her, the women all 
adore her.  She can do anything - fight, cook, sing, perform magic, fix warp engines - 
and often has special powers such as telepathy or prescience.  She has a preternatural 
insight into the main characters of the world the fanfic is set in, and often sets about 
fixing their lives.  She frequently dies, and is lamented by all who knew her, at which 
point she comes back to life.

There are some hilarious, and several serious, discussions of Mary Sue online, as well 
as tests to discover if your original character is indeed a Mary Sue.  Specifically, I 
remember a website called Fanfic University, or some such thing, which had some 
very interesting articles on the Mary Sue phenomenon.  The paragraph above is more 
or less paraphrased from my memory of one of those articles, but there's also some 
discussion of the origin of the phenomenon, and the reasons for its resilience.

Abigail
No idea what a BNF is, though.




From keegan at mcn.org  Wed May 28 21:27:36 2003
From: keegan at mcn.org (Catherine Keegan)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 14:27:36 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Oldbies and Lurkers -- Show
  Yourselves!  ;-)
In-Reply-To: <bb373o+avad@eGroups.com>
References: <bb2eji+n8li@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20030528142535.00368108@localhost>

At 01:44 PM 5/28/2003 , you wrote:
>--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Cindy C." <>
> >Maybe it would be cool if
> > the "oldbies" who don't post much and the "newbie" lurkers who
>don't  post much popped up to remind us all of their presence?

I rarely post to this list, but I do enjoy reading it.  I've almost 
completely given up on the main list until after the next book comes 
out.  These days, my Potter time is owned by Fiction Alley as I'm one of 
Heidi's volunteers there.

Catherine in California
Loup Noir on Fiction Alley




From sushi at societyhappens.com  Wed May 28 21:32:54 2003
From: sushi at societyhappens.com (Sushi)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 16:32:54 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Mary Sue
In-Reply-To: <bb394f+2k8s@eGroups.com>
References: <bb2k2a+3e8t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030528163030.03e07370@mail.societyhappens.com>


>Abigail
>No idea what a BNF is, though.

         Big Name Fan, ie somebody especially influential in a particular 
fandom or branch of fandom.  Cassandra Claire is pretty much *the* BNF of 
HP fanfic fandom, and Heidi and Co. are pretty much *the* BNFs of every 
other part of the fandom save fanart.

Sushi, sticking her blobby little nose in for a moment


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From abigailnus at yahoo.com  Wed May 28 21:32:14 2003
From: abigailnus at yahoo.com (abigailnus)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 21:32:14 -0000
Subject: OOP Reading Strategies (was: Oldbies and Lurkers)
In-Reply-To: <3ED4A962.8917.3038F19@localhost>
Message-ID: <bb39su+42e2@eGroups.com>

Tammy wrote:
my 
> book arrives in the mail sometime AFTER June 21 (*snif snif*), at which point I will 
> lock myself in a closet with a jug of water and some pork rinds and pizza, and will 
> read until I can't see the pages anymore. 

And she's not the only person talking about devouring OOP the second it arrives in 
the mail.  Most people on the group talk in terms of buying the book at midnight and 
reading it till morning.  Am I the only person who wants to savour the experience?

First of all, my copy won't arrive from Amazon for at least a week after June 21st, at 
which point I will already be deeply into final exams.  I hope I'll be able to get home in 
between tests.  Some of you may already know that in my family we read the first four 
books out to each other, and I may have mentioned that for GoF, I forced my mother 
and brother to read only two chapters a night (this is after my behaviour while 
reading PoA, which got us to the end over a single weekend).  I don't see any reason 
not to do the same thing for OOP.  In fact, I think there are even more reasons then 
there were three years ago.  Back then, we all thought we had only a year left to wait.  
Now we know that it might be another three years or more before the next 
installment.  I can't imagine scarfing it down in several hours.  I enjoy the mysteries in 
the HP books so much - it's delicious to draw them out.

This means I won't be on the group for as much as a month after OOP comes out.  I'll 
be sorry to miss the first post-publication frenzy, and heaven knows HPfGU has 
become an important part of my day, but as much as I love you guys, and as much as 
I enjoy discussing the books with you, I want to enjoy them for themselves.  I already 
know that I won't be able to stop myself from going 'Hey! That supports LOLLIPOPS!', 
but I don't want to be actively planning my next TBAY post while reading.

Abigail
Working my way up to 786 posts.




From anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net  Thu May 29 00:11:00 2003
From: anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net (Anne)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 00:11:00 -0000
Subject: Oldbies and BNFs
In-Reply-To: <bb286q+eq29@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb3j6k+s613@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "David" <dfrankiswork at n...> 
wrote:

> Anne U wrote:
> 
> > Mostly I'm focusing on a few of the BNFs (AngieJ, Lissanne, Lori, 
> > now working on Barb's HP and the Psychic Serpent, which is lots 
of 
> > fun).
> 
> Here's another term requiring definition.  I assume BNF stands for 
> Big Name Fan?  How does one decide one of those?  Is there a list 
> somewhere?  I suppose it's too much to hope that all names are 
equal 
> here, but seeing a categorisation like that does make me perversely 
> proud that I don't know who Lissanne is.  (Apologies to him/her if 
> it's somebody regular here under another name.)
> 
> 

Well perhaps I should have clarified that by saying BNFs in the HP 
Fan-Ficdom. Lissanne Jones is a BNF on FictionAlley, as are Lori 
Summers, AngieJ (Ebony's nom de plume), Heidi Tandy, Barb and 
Cassandra Claire, to name a few. I suppose I should have said Big 
Name Fan Fiction Writers (BNFFWs?). I don't know about Liss, Lori, or 
Casie, but I've seen many posts on HPFGU groups from Ebony, Heidi, 
and Barb. 
 
Also, there are numerous Yahoo groups devoted specifically to the 
writings of various fan-fic authors and artists, not to mention all 
the Y! groups devoted to the various SHIPs. Some of them have as many 
members as some of the "regular" HPFGU groups. How much crossover 
membership those groups have with the HPFGU groups is anyone's guess.

Anne U
(did that help?)





From yukon28209 at sparklingshore.com  Thu May 29 02:53:51 2003
From: yukon28209 at sparklingshore.com (YUkon28209)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 19:53:51 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: More on Mary Sue
In-Reply-To: <bb394f+2k8s@eGroups.com>
References: <bb394f+2k8s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a05200f00bafb21bbc43c@[24.205.47.67]>


Alice asked about Mary Sues, and Abigail wrote:

>Ah, Mary Sue.  {great explanation snipped}
>
>There are some hilarious, and several serious, discussions of Mary 
>Sue online...

If anyone's interested... I recently read a great article available 
online at http://www.merrycoz.org/papers/MARYSUE.HTM, called "150 
Years of Mary Sue," that suggests these type of stories have been 
around a lot longer than Star Trek. Some of the early science fiction 
stories written by fans in the '30s through '50s (like "Slan") spring 
to mind.

Also, I feel duty-bound to note that the male of the species is often 
called "Marty Stu" (yuk, yuk, yuk). I wish I could find where I read 
it, but there was another great article online that noted James Bond 
as being an example of a mainstream Mary Sue-ish character: handsome, 
brilliant, worshipped by women everywhere, adventurous, witty, looks 
great in a suit.

In Star Trek fiction, two authors - Diane Carey and Janet Keegan - 
were singled out as having written pro novels with "Mary Sue" 
characters. One of the things that I've always enjoyed about HP is 
how direct Rowling's been about her similarity to Hermione (and if I 
remember correctly, Ron's based on her best friend from childhood). 
But Hermione isn't a Mary Sue, even if she is a bit of Rowling's 
alter ego - she's too lovably flawed (which is why she's also my 
favorite character).

YUkon 28209
(My first posting, please don't bite)
-- 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From abigailnus at yahoo.com  Thu May 29 06:12:14 2003
From: abigailnus at yahoo.com (abigailnus)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 06:12:14 -0000
Subject: More on Mary Sue
In-Reply-To: <a05200f00bafb21bbc43c@[24.205.47.67]>
Message-ID: <bb48bu+j5i8@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, YUkon28209 <yukon28209 at s...> 
wrote:
> If anyone's interested... I recently read a great article available 
> online at http://www.merrycoz.org/papers/MARYSUE.HTM, called "150 
> Years of Mary Sue," that suggests these type of stories have been 
> around a lot longer than Star Trek. Some of the early science fiction 
> stories written by fans in the '30s through '50s (like "Slan") spring 
> to mind.

This looks like the article that I was thinking of, the one I cribbed my description of 
Mary Sue from.  If anyone's interested, I heartily recommend it.  However, the URL has 
a comma at the end which needs to be erased to access the article.

Abigail




From hypercolor99 at hotmail.com  Thu May 29 09:19:03 2003
From: hypercolor99 at hotmail.com (alice_loves_cats)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 09:19:03 -0000
Subject: Mary Sue
In-Reply-To: <bb394f+2k8s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb4ja7+22q7@eGroups.com>

>>>Abigail's mail on MarySue-s<<<

Alice:

Wow, I didn't know this "phenomenon" had a name... It's something I've
encountered while reading all types of fanfiction. Very difficult to
avoid using, actually. I used to make a point of creating my
character's flaws before anything else, to make sure they weren't
perfect... at all. That wasn't in the HP universe, though. 

I think I'll have a look at that article quickly...

Thanks for your help.

Love, Alice
---stomach churning, feeling sick - Corporate Finance exam in 40
minutes... oh my God, oh my God... 




From timregan at microsoft.com  Thu May 29 15:11:40 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 15:11:40 -0000
Subject: Kirkland store selling OoP tomorrow (I doubt it)
Message-ID: <bb57vc+slbu@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

So, I doubt this is true but wouldn't it be nice if ...

Today's Seattle Times is reporting a Kirkland bookstore, "Parkplace 
Books", is having their Harry Potter party, complete with boxes of 
the new book, tomorrow!

<http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/eastsidenews/134841205_grin29e
.html>

Cheers,

Dumbledad




From heidit at netbox.com  Thu May 29 15:52:14 2003
From: heidit at netbox.com (heiditandy)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 15:52:14 -0000
Subject: Oldbies and BNFs
In-Reply-To: <bb3j6k+s613@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb5abe+bpgg@eGroups.com>


> > Anne U wrote:
> > 
> > > Mostly I'm focusing on a few of the BNFs (AngieJ, Lissanne, 
Lori, 
> > > now working on Barb's HP and the Psychic Serpent, which is 
lots 
> of 
> > > fun).


David wrote: 
> > Here's another term requiring definition.  I assume BNF stands 
for 
> > Big Name Fan?  How does one decide one of those?  Is there a 
list 
> > somewhere?  I suppose it's too much to hope that all names are 
> equal 
> > here, but seeing a categorisation like that does make me 
perversely 
> > proud that I don't know who Lissanne is.  (Apologies to him/her 
if 
> > it's somebody regular here under another name.)

Not regular, just a member of long standing. I think Liss has been 
on this list since early 2001 - Cassie's been here since the list 
was founded in 2001 as well (and posted here a few days ago), and 
Lori is one of the longest-term subscribers on the main list, 
although she doesn't post much anymore. 

No, David, there is no list. In fact, there's been a lot of 
discussion of the term on livejournals and on FictionAlley in the 
past year or so, and generally, people who are termed BNFs get 
jittery around the term, because, while Anne applied it in a nice 
way, it is *very often* applied in scathing terms, or as an insult, 
or as a complaint about some inner circle, or by people who are not 
doing it to be complimentary - although Anne certainly used it in a 
and positive and complimentary fashion. 

On the same note, of course not all fans are the same in terms of 
their committment to the fandom - someone like Stev Vanderark, who 
spends hours each week working on the Lexicon is more likely to be 
well known, and well respected - not for his name, but for his work 
product. People generally respect the time commitment that people 
put into "fandom volunteering", even if they aren't necessarily fans 
of the work, IMHO. 

Anne also wrote: 
> Well perhaps I should have clarified that by saying BNFs in the HP 
> Fan-Ficdom. Lissanne Jones is a BNF on FictionAlley, as are Lori 
> Summers, AngieJ (Ebony's nom de plume), Heidi Tandy, Barb and 
> Cassandra Claire, to name a few. 

Blush, blush - to you and to Sushi - and thanks. And I certainly 
don't think I belong on that list of fanfic-authors at the moment, 
as I haven;t managed to finish my novel-length fic yet (and likely 
won't before I have my bebe...) but it  is flattering...

> Also, there are numerous Yahoo groups devoted specifically to the 
> writings of various fan-fic authors and artists, not to mention 
all 
> the Y! groups devoted to the various SHIPs. Some of them have as 
many 
> members as some of the "regular" HPFGU groups. How much crossover 
> membership those groups have with the HPFGU groups is anyone's 
guess.

There's actually a tonne of crossover, but it's not as much as it 
was once. Back in 2000 and 2001, fanfic discussions took place on 
the Main List all the time - you can find the earliest post about 
Paradigm of Uncertainty on the Main List in April, 2000. Most of the 
more well known fanfic authors are members of HPfGU, although lot of 
discsussion about canon, especially as it bisects fanfic, takes 
place on LJs and FictionAlley these days, instead of the main 
list,    where those discussions were born.


heidi, keeper of fandom history (also found here: 
http://www.livejournal.com/users/fandom_history)




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Thu May 29 16:21:31 2003
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 16:21:31 -0000
Subject: FILK: Hello Mary Sue
Message-ID: <bb5c2b+drid@eGroups.com>

Hello Mary Sue
A filk by Pippin
to the tune of "Hello, Mary Lou"


Hello Mary Sue, Goodbye art
Sweet Mary Sue, she's too good to be true
She's tight with Q, and Buffy too
Hello Mary Sue, goodbye art

She has liquid crystal eyes, she wears boots up to her thighs
She's secretly the child of Voldemort
And an elf-queen in disguise, at her feet the whole world lies
Her wand has got the One Ring at its core

I say "Hello, Mary Sue, Goodbye art"
Sweet Mary Sue, she makes me want to spew
Her faults are few, her heart true blue
Hello, Mary Sue, Goodbye art

Her lips are soft, her voice is cool, guys who see her start to 
drool
There's fairies nesting in each golden tress
Dragons, monsters, Neville's gran,  love her like that little lamb
And even Dumbledore says he's impressed

Hello Mary Sue, goodbye art
Sweet Mary Sue there's nothing she can't do
Take a Firebolt for a spin, fix it with a bobby pin
Hello Mary Sue, goodbye art

Smarter than Hermione, who needs Harry, when there's she 
Her destiny is to upstage the star
Boy, that girl sure gets around, she's in fics you must put down
That brilliant and amazing avatar

Hey, Hey, Goodbye Mary Sue, for now we part
Poor Harry's tears  will fall just like the  rain 
As you, once again, die in such pain
It makes me wish he'd croaked you at the start
It's goodbye Mary Sue, goodbye art
It's goodbye Mary Sue, goodbye art





From bray.262 at osu.edu  Thu May 29 17:37:09 2003
From: bray.262 at osu.edu (Rachel Lewis)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 17:37:09 +0000 (EST5EDT)
Subject: Oldbies and Lurkers -- Show Yourselves! ;-)
Message-ID: <40B9197096D@lincoln.treasurer.ohio-state.edu>

It's me...Rachel (used to be Bray) Lewis.

Thought I'd jump in and say hi to everyone.  I haven't 
posted here for awhile and thought I'd let you know what's 
going on.

Lori (Paradigm of Uncertainty author) and I are moving into 
a townhouse in a month so I've been busy packing and 
purging my junk.  Cleaning out closets and big Rubbermaid 
containers is really good for the soul.  :-)

And I've also been busy with doctor appts.  Besides my 
regular visits to my Rheumatologist, I'm also going through 
the motions to get ready for gastric by-pass surgery in 
October.  I'm very excited/scared about this.  

Been to a couple concerts (Matchbox 20 was incredible) and 
been to the movies several times (love affair of The Matrix 
going strong).  Went on a couple road trips but nowhere 
really exciting.  Just Let's-Get-Out-Of-Town-For-A-Day 
trips.

Aaaaaand.....that pretty much wraps it up!

22 DAYS LEFT!!!!!

I feel like a little girl again, counting down the days to 
Christmas.  :-)

Rachel Lewis
The Ohio State University
Fees & Deposits

P.S. - this is what part of the alphabet would 
look like if Q and R were eliminated.



From yukon28209 at sparklingshore.com  Thu May 29 22:03:38 2003
From: yukon28209 at sparklingshore.com (YUkon28209)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 15:03:38 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Kirkland store selling OoP tomorrow (I
 doubt it)
In-Reply-To: <bb57vc+slbu@eGroups.com>
References: <bb57vc+slbu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <a05200f03bafc33f0a4ee@[24.205.47.67]>

Tim wrote:
>Today's Seattle Times is reporting a Kirkland bookstore, "Parkplace
>Books", is having their Harry Potter party, complete with boxes of
>the new book, tomorrow!
>
><<http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/eastsidenews/134841205_grin29e>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/eastsidenews/134841205_grin29e
>.html>

Looks like they added a note explaining that the party's on June 
20th! Wonder what kind of calls they got for that!

YUkon28209
-- 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From peabwain at yahoo.com  Fri May 30 03:53:13 2003
From: peabwain at yahoo.com (peabwain)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 20:53:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Mary Sue
Message-ID: <20030530035313.13237.qmail@web41812.mail.yahoo.com>

>>>Abigail's mail on MarySue-s<<<

>Alice:

>Wow, I didn't know this "phenomenon" had a name...
>It's something I've
>encountered while reading all types of fanfiction.
						
Peabwain:
Me too. I never read any fanfic until I became a Harry
Potter fan and joined this group. I had no idea the
super-heroine was called MarySue. I always called her
the Hogwarts Whore. 

Peabwain -- Who admits she's not too quick on the
uptake. 

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com



From peabwain at yahoo.com  Fri May 30 04:44:28 2003
From: peabwain at yahoo.com (peabwain)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 21:44:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] unattractive accessories
Message-ID: <20030530044428.85782.qmail@web41801.mail.yahoo.com>

Here is a funny story I found in my sisters online
diary. I told her to post it on this list, but she
wouldnt. So I did it. 

Over the weekend I found out that my husband is a
girl. 
Jeff has this annoying habit of choosing... err...
really unattractive accessories. He got a new digital
camera for his birthday, and he loves it and thats
great, but he wants to take it everywhere, and he
chooses to haul it around in a fanny pack. I refuse to
be seen with him when hes wearing it. It was ok for
him to wear it when we were on vacation at Disneyland,
because fanny packs are more of a touristy thing and a
camping thing, but not a thing to wear around the town
you *live* in. And even worse, it was bright green,
because you know, bright green goes with everything!
<rolls eyes>. 
I told this husband of mine that if he really wanted
to take his camera with him everywhere,  we could get
him a nice camera bag to put it in. That way he
wouldnt be so horribly socially unacceptable. And if
we couldnt find a nice camera bag, wed find him a
lovely purse.
We go to Wal-Mart, and looked at camera bags for him,
but he didnt like any of them. They dont have
enough pockets he tells me. For your lipstick and
perfume?? I said. It seems he is determined to get a
fanny pack.  

So Im thinking that since people use fanny packs for
camping, fishing, and that sort of thing, they would
be in the sporting section. I asked the salesman if
they sold fanny packs there.  He looked at me kinda
funny, as if I was speaking a different language, and
told me Yeah, but theyre in the womens section...
by the purses. I looked at Jeff and said I *TOLD* 
you it was a purse!! We walked away and as soon as we
turned the corner the salesman burst out laughing. 

Well... (to make a short story really long), he found
himself a nice black one with *enough* pockets. He
doesnt like to call it a fanny pack, because its
offensive he says. So he calls it  his mansack. Oh
yeah! <rolls eyes again> Mansack is MUCH better! 
Peabwain--who knows that her sister is going to stop
buying her tasty snacks when she finds out I've posted this.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com



From editor at texas.net  Fri May 30 04:47:07 2003
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Geist)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 23:47:07 -0500
Subject: My son the tree
Message-ID: <00d401c32666$8743e800$726463d1@texas.net>

I forgot to share this.

My son Michael is three and a half. He loves Harry Potter, mostly because I
do, but he truly loves my Whomping Willow game. He loves the Whomping Willow
part of the movie. He asks me what the tree says and thinks. He asks if the
car hurt it.

We have quite a collection of those little Chevron cars, and my husband told
me earlier this week that he was fussing at Michael for slamming the cars
around. He's not supposed to hit or throw things in the house. Michael's
answer? I'm the Whomping Willow."

How do you argue with that?

~Amanda, parent of a very imaginative child
------------------------------
Those who cannot hear the music, think the dancers daft.




From dradamsapple at yahoo.com  Fri May 30 05:06:24 2003
From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 05:06:24 -0000
Subject: unattractive accessories
In-Reply-To: <20030530044428.85782.qmail@web41801.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bb6osg+ibg3@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, peabwain <peabwain at y...> 
wrote:
> Here is a funny story I found in my sisters online
> diary. I told her to post it on this list, but she
> wouldn't. So I did it. 
> 
> Over the weekend I found out that my husband is a
> girl. 
> Jeff has this annoying habit of choosing... err...
> really unattractive accessories. He got a new digital
> camera for his birthday, and he loves it and that's
> great, but he wants to take it everywhere, and he
> chooses to haul it around in a fanny pack. I refuse to
> be seen with him when he's wearing it.

>snip<

> I told this husband of mine that if he really wanted
> to take his camera with him everywhere,  we could get
> him a nice camera bag to put it in. That way he
> wouldn't be so horribly socially unacceptable. And if
> we couldn't find a nice camera bag, we'd find him a
> lovely purse.

> snip<

> Well... (to make a short story really long), he found
> himself a nice black one with *enough* pockets. He
> doesn't like to call it a fanny pack, because it's
> "offensive" he says. So he calls it  his "mansack". Oh
> yeah! <rolls eyes again> Mansack is MUCH better! 
> Peabwain--who knows that her sister is going to stop
> buying her tasty snacks when she finds out I've posted this.
> 
> 

Well, here's something  I've been wondering about for a long time now 
(well, not really, but this story did jog my brain a bit)

I remember when I went to Italy (last time  was 1989) that some men 
would carry a "mansack", to quote peabwain.  I mean, it would kind of 
look like a large, mens grooming bag, as we have here in the US, but 
I really think that it was indeed a mans "purse".

  Some would just have a small strap that  would fit around  the 
mans' wrist, and some actually had straps long enough that they  
would either carry them strapped accross their chest (from left 
shoulder, say, to right hip), and others  would actually carry them 
like womens' purses, hanging from one shoulder.
 
I remember at that time that men's clothing over there was so TIGHT, 
that I don't think they (men) could squeeze in a bill in any pocket 
if their life depended on it.__

So, my question for all you non-USA folk, does such a thing still 
exist over there?  (anyone have a clue what I'm talking about or am I 
just way too old?)

Well, Peabwain, if the case is still so, then your husband/in law 
(sorry, lost the relation) could just say that "it's the latest thing 
in Paris", (hee!hee!) or something of  that sort.

Sound good?

Anna . . .(who can't even get her own DH to carry his own tissues, 
er, clean ones I mean {ok, no eeeeewwwws!})
_______________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
> http://calendar.yahoo.com




From iluvgahan at yahoo.com  Fri May 30 06:16:16 2003
From: iluvgahan at yahoo.com (iluvgahan)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 06:16:16 -0000
Subject: Albanian Question
Message-ID: <bb6svg+fs53@eGroups.com>

Hi all! New to the OT List, but I am a member of the HPforGrownups 
list and someone had emailed me a question offlist regarding language 
and culture, but I accidently deleted her email and I have an answer 
for her but nowhere to post it!, lol.  So if you see this email me 
back, ok?  Lol.

P.S. I hope it's ok to post this here, I wasn't sure.  

Christina




From Ripleywriter at aol.com  Fri May 30 07:56:12 2003
From: Ripleywriter at aol.com (Ripleywriter at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 03:56:12 EDT
Subject: Harry Haters and the Lack of Proof
Message-ID: <152.1fd39a34.2c08689c@aol.com>


Let me first just say that this post is for research purposes, not to start a 
flame war or anything like that. 

I'm searching for proof to prove the people right who put down Harry Potter 
as promoting witchcraft or Satin or being against the Bible, or whatever 
they're saying next; basically I'm looking for a good reason to want to ban HP books 
as much as some people want to. 

I want to do this because currently I have no proof to show that these people 
have a point. That's their problem. For all the talking they do I have yet to 
see an ounce of proof to justify their beliefs. I see the potential of what 
they're saying...I can sometimes even understand why they believe HP is a 
danger to children; but I have yet to see any of these people back up their claims. 
(long quote ahead)

As a law student put it in an excellent review of a book called 'Harry Potter 
and the Bible' by Richard Abanes: "If Richard Abanes were to bring his case 
that JK Rowling and her publishers are promoting Witchcraft and Satanism to 
court, he would be laughed out of building. Contrary to what Abanes seems to 
think, Ms. Rowling and her publishers do not have to prove that the books do not 
promote Witchcraft and Satanism: Abanes has to prove that they DO promote these 
things. He does not provide one shred of evidence that any person has been 
converted to the previously stated activities by the series, and he does not 
show that Ms. Rowling wrote the books for the purpose of converting people. What 
he has presented can at best be considered BS and at worst be construed as 
libel."

Which can be said for the rest of the people like Abanes, IMO. 

So, I'm looking for evidence. Can anyone point me to an article or anything 
that shows actual, factual proof? 

Or, does anyone have any information they themselves can share to the 
opposite point of my article: the "actual" dangers (which are mostly directly related 
to faulty parenting) of Harry Potter. Such as...knowing a child who got the 
idea to try to create a magic potion from the HP books and had to go to the 
hospital for ingesting poison of some kind. 

I have similar stories from the news, but nothing in the vein of a child's 
beliefs being altered as a direct result of reading the books or seeing the 
movies. 

Like I said, anything to give the religious Harry Haters grounds for their 
claims. I have literally found *no* proof to back up their beliefs. 

And frankly, considering the amount of books published and media attention 
these people have gotten, that is incredibly annoying. 

So any info will help immensely! All I need is one story, one report, 
anything.

Thank you, 

Melly










From timregan at microsoft.com  Fri May 30 08:24:24 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 08:24:24 -0000
Subject: Harry Haters and the Lack of Proof
In-Reply-To: <152.1fd39a34.2c08689c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <bb74fo+3s0m@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

I cannot answer Melly's point about banning the HP books, but I can 
imagine coming close. I've nothing against witchcraft and wizardry 
(other than that it doesn't really work) but those who do, on 
religious grounds or otherwise, would find the lack of judgement 
against witchcraft and wizardry a problem with the HP series. I've 
Christian friends who have not read the books, and will not let 
their kids read them for that reason (though they don't advocate 
burning or banning them).

I've had similar experiences: with Nabokov's "Lolita" and 
Nirvana's "Polly". Both are great works from an aesthetic 
standpoint, but their subject matter is so repugnant, and is 
presented with seemingly no judgment on the author's part, that I 
find them impossible. I had to abandon "Lolita" half way through, 
and "Polly" spoilt an otherwise fine album (showing my age there, 
album = CD).

Cheers,

Dumbledad.





From pennylin at swbell.net  Fri May 30 11:51:17 2003
From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny Linsenmayer)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 11:51:17 -0000
Subject: Harry Haters and the Lack of Proof
In-Reply-To: <152.1fd39a34.2c08689c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <bb7gjl+44qe@eGroups.com>

Hi all --

I know ..... I really should check in here more often.  <g>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Ripleywriter at a... wrote:
> 
> Let me first just say that this post is for research purposes, not
to start a 
> flame war or anything like that. 
> 
> I'm searching for proof to prove the people right who put down Harry
Potter 
> as promoting witchcraft or Satin or being against the Bible, or
whatever 
> they're saying next; basically I'm looking for a good reason to want
to ban HP books 
> as much as some people want to. 
> 
> I want to do this because currently I have no proof to show that
these people 
> have a point. That's their problem. For all the talking they do I
have yet to 
> see an ounce of proof to justify their beliefs.>>>>>>>>>>>>

Melly -- Yes, I have several sources for your research actually. 
There are a number of Christian commentators who, while they reach the
opposite conclusion, are able to articulate the concerns that some
fellow Christians share.  

Three of these authors will be speaking at Nimbus - 2003
(www.hp2003.org) and promoting their books there:

1.  Connie Neal (Nimbus speaker) -- In "What's a Christian to do with
Harry Potter?", her first book on this subject, Connie outlines some
of the Biblical objections to HP.  She notes that while it's
*possible* to come up with this interpretation of HP and its dangers
from a Christian perspective, she spends most of her time showing why
this isn't necessary.  IMO, in this particular work, she spent a bit
too much page time encouraging Christians to not judge one another for
their interpretive choices (either way) and not quite enough time
focused on using specific examples from HP to refute the concerns of
certain Christians.  

Her second book, "The Gospel According to HP," provides much in the
way of specifics.  It was written in direct response to Abanes IMO,
though she's careful not to name him specifically in the introduction.  

2.  John Granger (Nimbus speaker) -- "The Hidden Key to Harry Potter"
makes the case that Rowling is actually writing in the Inkling
tradition (Christian fantasy authors Tolkien and C.S. Lewis
primarily).  My recollection is that the body of this work doesn't
devote a great deal of page time to refuting the claims of Christians
who are against the books, but he does devote an entire appendix to
making strong arguments against Abanes' claims.  His book is strongest
in its examination of the themes and symbolism of HP, IMO.  It's a
great book, and I had the pleasure of hearing John give his lecture at
one of the Episcopal churches here a few weeks ago.  He's a *great*
speaker, so all of you coming to Nimbus are in for a real treat if you
attend his presentation on "Alchemy, Doppelgangers and the Irony of
the Religious Objections to Harry Potter."

3.  Edmund Kern (Nimbus speaker) -- His book is forthcoming and won't
even be available for purchase at Nimbus, though I've read a review
copy and am writing a promotional review for him.  His publisher plans
to have order forms at Nimbus though, and his presentation should
cover a good bit of the ground of this book.  He has a rather
extensive part of a chapter devoted to the religious critics (and he
seems to come at the topic from the perspective of a non-Christian if
I'm reading him right).  I can give you his email address off-list if
you want to contact him further.  

4.  Kimbra Gish -- this is an article published in Horn Book magazine
in 2000 (vol 76, pgs 262-71 -- "Hunting Down Harry Potter: An
Exploration of Religious Concerns about Children's Literature."  I
read this some time ago.  As Kern notes, while she ultimately asks her
fellow Christians to be tolerant and consider the works' moral
messages, she leaves little doubt of her own fundamentalist leanings.
 She goes through the specifics of the Biblical objections in great
detail though; this one would definitely give you the sense of *how*
it is that some Christians can favor not allowing their children to
read them or not reading them for themselves. [Note: I see no
justification for *banning* any books, and none of these authors do
either].

5.  John Killinger "God, the Devil and Harry Potter" - Again, a very,
very favorable look at HP from the perspective of a Christian
theologian and pastor at that wonderful little stone church on
Mackinac Island.  :--)  This is short but packed with lots of good
insights.  

6.  Francis Bridger - "A Charmed Life: Spirituality in the
Potterworld."  A wonderful discourse on HP from the perspective of an
Anglican theologian who was unfortunately unable to attend Nimbus.  

This has encouraged me to dust off my review of all the above books,
save Kern (since I haven't written that one yet) and post it to the
main list later today.  Look for it later today or this weekend.  :--)
 I'm also happy to talk to you off-list.

Penny 
pennylin at swbell.net




From albusthewise at yahoo.com  Fri May 30 12:50:56 2003
From: albusthewise at yahoo.com (Albus Dumbledore)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 12:50:56 -0000
Subject: ADMIN: Some changes...
Message-ID: <bb7k3g+ga6p@eGroups.com>

Could I have everyone's attention?  <taps mike>  The HPfGU 
Administration Team would like to talk to you, just for a minute.  
Okay, maybe two or three minutes, but it's important.

As you might imagine, running a list of this size is a daunting 
task.  It needs to be accessible to everyone, the posting standards 
need to be maintained, and the volume needs to be kept to a 
manageable level. This is presently done by an administrative team of 
about thirty people, who are listed as "moderators" in the Members 
section of this list: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/members?group=mod&start=1 

In the past, this team was divided into three subgroups--list elves, 
poltergeists, and a small subgroup called, confusingly enough, 
Moderators.  Most of you have met at least one list elf--these are 
the folks who welcome you to the list, answer your questions, check 
the messages submitted by the moderated members, etc.  Poltergeists 
perform various technical or administrative tasks, like throwing 
water balloons and sticking gum into keyholes.  The Moderators were a 
small subgroup of the administrative team who made all the overall 
policy decisions.  However, we have recently come to the collective 
realization that this sort of hierarchical structure is simply not 
viable.  Following a lengthy discussion and self-evaluation of the 
entire administrative structure, the Moderator subgroup has been 
disbanded.  Their responsibilities are now shared across the entire 
team, which is working on reorganizing the administrative 
infrastructure of the HPfGU community.

At the same time, as a result of this difficult and time-consuming 
process, a number of the Moderators have chosen to step down from the 
administrative team.   Fortunately, most of them remain as members of 
the HP for Grownups community.  The HPfGU Administrative Team is 
saddened and diminished by this loss.  We raise our goblets to the 
tremendous contributions made by Catherine (catorman), Cindy 
(cindysphynx), Jim Flanagan (jamesf991), John (queerasjohn), Neil 
(FlyingFordAnglia), Parker (harpdreamer), and most especially to our 
Founding Mother, Penny Linsenmayer (plinsenmayer). We express our 
profound gratitude and appreciation for your work, and hope to live 
up to your standards of commitment and care, and look forward to 
discussing OoP with you.

Also two of our Geists, Jenny (jenny_ravenclaw) and Jen P (jenp_97), 
and one of our Elves, Ebony (selah_1977), have chosen to step down 
from the administration team. To them we give our heartfelt thanks 
for their hard work and the great spirit they've brought to the HPfGU 
community.

The rest of us remain committed, with your help, to being the best 
Harry Potter forum on the Web.  We are continuing to oversee the 
daily smooth operation of the various HPfGU lists as well as 
exploring ways to best restructure how we run HPfGU.  We have updated 
the Humongous Bigfile to reflect these changes, and will continue to 
refine it until our new structure is firmly in place. 

Although the process is not yet complete, we would like to assure you 
that a new administrative structure is rising, phoenix-like, from the 
ashes of the old and that as soon it is fully fledged, it will spread 
its wings for all to see.  Or, if you prefer, a new administrative 
structure is rising, Voldemort-like, out of the bones of the old, and 
that as soon as it is fully clothed and holding its wand, it will 
press the "Special Notices" mark to summon you all.  Either way, we 
will report back to you as soon as possible to tell you of our 
progress.  Oh, and if you have any questions or comments, please 
email us at HPforGrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com, and one of us will 
respond.

--The HPfGU List Administration Team

The members of the team are:

Ali (Merry Elf), Amanda (Amandageist), Amy Z (Amygeist, ex-
Moderator), Barb (Babsgeist), Carole (Carolegeist), David (Davey 
Elf), Debbie (Debby Elf), Dicentra Spectabilis (Dicey Elf), Elkins 
(Elkigeist, ex-Moderator), Eloise (Weezy Elf), Gwendolyn Grace 
(Gwenny Elf), Heidi (Heidy Elf, currently on maternity leave), Jen F 
(Jenny Elf), Jim Ferer (ex-Jimmy Elf), Joy (ex-Joysie Elf and Help 
Desk Diva), Joywitch (Curmudgeon), Judy (Judey Elf), Kelley (Kelley 
Elf, ex-Moderator), Kimberly (Moony Elf), Luke (Lukey Elf), Marina 
(Filky Elf), Mary Ann (Dizzy Elf), Michelle (ex-Shelly Elf), Mike 
(Aberforth's Goat, ex-Moderator), Paul (technoGeist), Pip (Pippy 
Elf), Pippin (Peppy Elf), Porphyria (Ashey Elf, currently on 
sabbatical), Saitaina (Saity Elf), Sheryll (Rylly Elf), Simon (ex-
Simey Elf, Dr. Branford), Steve Vander Ark (Keeper of the Lexicon), 
Tabouli (Tooly Elf).





From foxmoth at qnet.com  Fri May 30 14:04:29 2003
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 14:04:29 -0000
Subject: My son the fighter pilot was My son the tree
In-Reply-To: <00d401c32666$8743e800$726463d1@texas.net>
Message-ID: <bb7ode+k7j5@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Amanda Geist" 
<editor at t...> wrote:

> We have quite a collection of those little Chevron cars, and my 
husband told me earlier this week that he was fussing at 
Michael for slamming the cars around. He's not supposed to hit 
or throw things in the house. Michael's answer? I'm the 
Whomping Willow."
> 
> How do you argue with that?
> 

You tell  him trees are not allowed inside the house <g>.
Your story reminds me of when my son and his friend were 
playing "Top Gun" pilots. They were re-enacting the scene where  
Tom Cruise gets chewed out by his commanding officer, 
complete with profane language. I told them they weren't allowed 
to talk that way in the house, whereupon the friend said, "But 
that's the way real fighter pilots talk!" I was stuck for a second, 
then I said, "Not in front of their mothers."

Pippin




From anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net  Fri May 30 16:58:42 2003
From: anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net (Anne)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 16:58:42 -0000
Subject: FILK: Hello Mary Sue
In-Reply-To: <bb5c2b+drid@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb82k2+3rid@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> 
wrote:
> Hello Mary Sue
> A filk by Pippin
> to the tune of "Hello, Mary Lou"
..... 
> Hey, Hey, Goodbye Mary Sue, for now we part
> Poor Harry's tears  will fall just like the  rain 
> As you, once again, die in such pain
> It makes me wish he'd croaked you at the start
> It's goodbye Mary Sue, goodbye art
> It's goodbye Mary Sue, goodbye art

CLAP CLAP CLAP Thanks Pippin, this was great. Between your filk and 
mine, I think we've poked enough holes in Mary Sue so that she won't 
float on any SHIP ;-)

Anne U
(http://home.att.net/~coriolan/places/fandom.htm#Ode_to_Mary_Sue)




From bboy_mn at yahoo.com  Fri May 30 17:44:58 2003
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 17:44:58 -0000
Subject: See London CHEAP! (not an advert)
Message-ID: <bb85aq+mgse@eGroups.com>

I posted this before, but I thought it wouldn't hurt to do it again.

London and the UK in general have a lot of WEB CAMERAS situated all
around the country. You can see beach cams, street cams, cafe cams, etc...

Here are some good examples-

General UK Web Cams-
http://www.ukwebcameras.co.uk/

Family friendly (inoffensive) Web cam; 100's of them.


General World Web Cams-
http://www.earthcam.com/

Has a search feature that will allow you to search 'London', 'UK',
'England', etc.... This is a directory so it redirects you to other
web cam sights. From what I can tell to see anything that might be
offensive, you have to have a username and password. 


SOHO Cam-
http://www.camvista.com/england/london/latino01.php3

Cameras updates the image reasonably fast, but the camera also rotates
periodically so you aren't constantly looking at the same scene.


BBC Jam Cams-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/travel/jamcams/north_central.shtml

These are traffic cameras in London (get it? Jam Cam ->Traffic Jam),
although the BBC sight has lists of other nationwide web cams (A nice
one in Torquay). On the page link I have given you, on the bottom
right of the map are 6 camera location configured in a small arc with
two more cameras just to the right of them. In the arc, the two middle
cameras are Charring Cross Road. There are more on or near Charring
Cross, but they aren't operational right now.

Thought you might have some fun with these. 

bboy_mn






From timregan at microsoft.com  Fri May 30 19:24:36 2003
From: timregan at microsoft.com (Tim Regan)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 19:24:36 -0000
Subject: See London CHEAP! (not an advert)
In-Reply-To: <bb85aq+mgse@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb8b5k+3q57@eGroups.com>

Hi All,

--- "Steve" wrote:
> London and the UK in general have a lot of WEB CAMERAS situated all
> around the country. 
> BBC Jam Cams-
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/travel/jamcams/north_central.shtml

Great site. Interestingly it includes a cam that covers the entrance 
to King's Cross Station (not St Pancras as used in the films, that's 
the next block / next door).

<http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/travel/jamcams/camloco/040246.shtml>

So when we get to the start or end of term, we can all watch out for 
those Hogwarts' students and parents with owls etc in tow.

Cheers,

Dumbledad. 




From siskiou at earthlink.net  Fri May 30 19:51:14 2003
From: siskiou at earthlink.net (Susanne)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 12:51:14 -0700
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: unattractive accessories
In-Reply-To: <bb6osg+ibg3@eGroups.com>
References: <bb6osg+ibg3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <761271294.20030530125114@earthlink.net>



Hi,

Thursday, May 29, 2003, 10:06:24 PM, dradamsapple at yahoo.com wrote:

> Well, Peabwain, if the case is still so, then your husband/in law 
> (sorry, lost the relation) could just say that "it's the latest thing 
> in Paris", (hee!hee!) or something of  that sort.

Well, I'm not sure about Paris, but I'm from Germany and it
used to be a reasonably common thing over there (I've been
living in the US for almost 14 years, now).

My dad carries a "fanny pack", and so did I for all my
travels. Makes it almost impossible to forget your purse
somewhere.

My husband (100% American) has also worn a "mansack" (we
refer to it as money belt in our family) for years.
A black leather one. He wears it to work, also, and not an
eyebrow is raised, apparently.

He's not the only one, either, but we do live in Eugene,
Oregon, which tends to be a bit more on the alternative side
;)

-- 
Best regards,
 Susanne                           mailto:siskiou at earthlink.net

Visit our pet rabbits: http://home.earthlink.net/~siskiou/




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Fri May 30 20:22:03 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 20:22:03 -0000
Subject: My son the fighter pilot was My son the tree
In-Reply-To: <bb7ode+k7j5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb8ehb+q6rf@eGroups.com>

Pippin wrote:

> Your story reminds me of when my son and his friend were 
> playing "Top Gun" pilots. They were re-enacting the scene where  
> Tom Cruise gets chewed out by his commanding officer, 
> complete with profane language. I told them they weren't allowed 
> to talk that way in the house, whereupon the friend said, "But 
> that's the way real fighter pilots talk!" I was stuck for a second, 
> then I said, "Not in front of their mothers."

LOL!  And very true, I'm sure.

And an ROTFL to "Hello Mary Sue."  Pure genius.

Amy




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Fri May 30 22:20:04 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 30 May 2003 22:20:04 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter 
Message-ID: <1054333204.570.50668.w39@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-OTChatter group:

2003 PICKLED TOAD AWARDS: BEST FILK OF 
A SONG FROM A MOVIE OR TELEVISION SHOW 
SOUNDTRACK.
Entries have been listed in random 
order.  
Entries can be found either at HPfGU, 
at CMC's filksite, 
http://home.att.net/~coriolan/ 
or as otherwise noted.
Please vote for two (2) entries.
Results will be announced in July. 

  o The Only Established, by Lisa Inman 
  o Professor Lockhart, by Haggridd 
  o Let Me This Task Get Through, by CMC 
  o Snape's Favorite Thing, by Pippin 
  o Height Three Foot Ten, by CMC 
  o Keeper of the House, by Lisa Inman 
  o Born To Entertain, by Julie 
  o Dark Defense Tutorial, by Pippin 
  o Never Ever, by CMC 
  o You're Not Getting Harry Tonight, by Haggridd 
  o My Lord, by Eloise 
  o Hermione, by Melody 
  o You're the Top, by Debbie 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=1099973  

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 







From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Fri May 30 22:20:23 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 30 May 2003 22:20:23 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter 
Message-ID: <1054333223.436.20743.w76@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-OTChatter group:

2003 PICKLED TOAD AWARDS: BEST FILK OF 
A SONG FROM A MOVIE OR TELEVISION SHOW 
SOUNDTRACK.
Entries have been listed in random 
order.  
Entries can be found either at HPfGU, 
at CMC's filksite, 
http://home.att.net/~coriolan/ 
or as otherwise noted.
Please vote for two (2) entries.
Results will be announced in July. 

  o If You'd Just Let Me Explain, by Pippin 
  o Dance of the Know-it-all, by Eileen 
  o Draco Connection, by CMC 
  o Men in Cloaks, by Pippin 
  o Talk To the Basilisks, by CMC 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=1099974  

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 







From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Fri May 30 22:20:40 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 30 May 2003 22:20:40 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter 
Message-ID: <1054333240.190.27286.w5@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-OTChatter group:

2003 PICKLED TOAD AWARDS: BEST FILK OF 
A "TIN PAN ALLEY" SONG.
Entries have been listed in random 
order.  
Entries can be found either at HPfGU, 
at CMC's filksite, 
http://home.att.net/~coriolan/ 
or as otherwise noted.
Please vote for two (2) entries.
Results will be announced in July. 

  o Me and My Dad's Cloak, by Judy Nathanson 
  o That's Why Ol' Snapey Is a Vamp, by Pippin 
  o My Mother, You-Know-Who, by Pippin 
  o You're the Top, by Debbie 
  o Let's Hold the Fanfic Off, by Pippin 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=1099975  

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 







From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Fri May 30 22:20:57 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 30 May 2003 22:20:57 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter 
Message-ID: <1054333257.222.30226.w66@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-OTChatter group:

2003 PICKLED TOAD AWARDS: BEST FILK OF 
A GILBERT AND SULLIVAN SONG.
Entries have been listed in random 
order.  
Entries can be found either at HPfGU, 
at CMC's filksite, 
http://home.att.net/~coriolan/ 
or as otherwise noted.
Please vote for two (2) entries.
Results will be announced in July. 

  o I Am the Very Model of an Anti-Hero Archetype, by Mariner 
  o Snape's Little List, by Slytherin Sister 
  o The Skrewt May Scratch, by CMC 
  o A Sorting Song By Severus, by Textual Sphinx 
  o Three Profs From Hogwarts school Are We, by Eloise 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=1099976  

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 







From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Fri May 30 22:21:11 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 30 May 2003 22:21:11 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter 
Message-ID: <1054333271.196.71773.w50@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-OTChatter group:

2003 PICKLED TOAD AWARDS: BEST FILK OF 
A SONG BY THE BEATLES OR AN INDIVIDUAL 
BEATLE.
Entries have been listed in random 
order.  
Entries can be found either at HPfGU, 
at CMC's filksite, 
http://home.att.net/~coriolan/ 
or as otherwise noted.
Please vote for two (2) entries.
Results will be announced in July. 

  o Come Together, by Gail  
  o Hey Grim Dog, by Gail 
  o Golden Snitches, by Gail 
  o Eight-Legged Freaks, by Pippin 
  o Riddle's Giant Basilisk, by Pippin 
  o Potter's Fame, by Gryffleraverin 
  o I've Got To Throw This book Away, by Gail 
  o The Dobby Road album, by Gail, Pippin and Lilac 
  o All the DADA Teachers, by Pippin 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=1099977  

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 







From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Fri May 30 22:21:30 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 30 May 2003 22:21:30 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter 
Message-ID: <1054333290.228.71789.w50@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-OTChatter group:

2003 PICKLED TOAD AWARDS: BEST FILK OF 
A ROCK & ROLL SONG WRITTEN BEFORE 1980.
Entries have been listed in random 
order.  
Entries can be found either at HPfGU, 
at CMC's filksite, 
http://home.att.net/~coriolan/ 
or as otherwise noted.
Please vote for two (2) entries.
Results will be announced in July. 

  o Happy Together, by Pippin 
  o Unregistered Animagus, by Marina Floy 
  o Respect, by Amy Z. and Haggridd 
  o Barely Alive, by CMC 
  o Mr. Black, You Made a Fine Marauder, by Tann 
  o Bert the Baby Dragon, by CMC 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=1099978  

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 







From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Fri May 30 22:21:45 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 30 May 2003 22:21:45 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter 
Message-ID: <1054333305.196.47604.w18@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-OTChatter group:

2003 PICKLED TOAD AWARDS: BEST FILK OF 
A ROCK & ROLL SONG WRITTEN AFTER 1980.
Entries have been listed in random 
order.  
Entries can be found either at HPfGU, 
at CMC's filksite, 
http://home.att.net/~coriolan/ 
or as otherwise noted.
Please vote for two (2) entries.
Results will be announced in July. 

  o 21 Things I Want In a Death Eater, by Nicole 
  o Wizard Paradise, by Pippin 
  o 99 Rank Dungbombs, by Gail 
  o Immaterial Girl, by CMC 
  o Jump This Way, by Amber 
  o Eccentric, by Nicole 
  o Hogwarts Dream Rhapsody, by Pip 
  o We're All Evil, by Mariner 
  o The Goblet of Fire, by Gail 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=1099979  

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 







From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Fri May 30 22:22:03 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 30 May 2003 22:22:03 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter 
Message-ID: <1054333323.196.41646.w58@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-OTChatter group:

2003 PICKLED TOAD AWARDS: BEST FILK OF 
A DISNEY SONG.
Entries have been listed in random 
order.  
Entries can be found either at HPfGU, 
at CMC's filksite, 
http://home.att.net/~coriolan/ 
or as otherwise noted.
Please vote for two (2) entries.
Results will be announced in July. 

  o Under the Lake, by Pippin 
  o You Ain't Never met a Fiend like me, by Gryffleraverin 
  o Avada Kedavra, by Zach 
  o They're Oppressed, by CMC 
  o Ron, by Nicole 
  o Superbureaucraticmagicaladministration, by CMC 
  o Lockhart, by Nicole Lyon 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=1099980  

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 







From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Fri May 30 22:22:23 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 30 May 2003 22:22:23 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter 
Message-ID: <1054333343.212.8055.w20@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-OTChatter group:

2003 PICKLED TOAD AWARDS: BEST FILK OF 
A TOM LEHRER SONG.
Entries have been listed in random 
order.  
Entries can be found either at HPfGU, 
at CMC's filksite, 
http://home.att.net/~coriolan/ 
or as otherwise noted.
Please vote for two (2) entries.
Results will be announced in July. 

  o Transfiguration, by Haggridd 
  o Igor Karkaroff, by Gail 
  o The Sphinx, by CMC 
  o S.P.E.W., by Amy Z. and Haggridd 
  o Torturing Muggles In the Dark, by Mariner 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=1099981  

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
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Thanks!

 







From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Fri May 30 22:22:45 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 30 May 2003 22:22:45 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter 
Message-ID: <1054333365.208.61730.w63@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-OTChatter group:

2003 PICKLED TOAD AWARDS: BEST FILK OF 
A SONG WHICH RELATES TO HP FANDOM-- 
SHIP, TBAY, WAITING FOR BOOK V, ETC.
Entries have been listed in random 
order.  
Entries can be found either at HPfGU, 
at CMC's filksite, 
http://home.att.net/~coriolan/ 
or as otherwise noted.
Please vote for two (2) entries.
Results will be announced in July. 

  o Potter Fans, by Gail and Lilac 
  o We're All Evil, by Mariner 
  o Oliver Wood, by Pippin 
  o How Many Students at Hogwarts, by Pippin 
  o It's a Book, by Marina 
  o Ode to mary sue, by Anne U. 
  o The Trek of the MAGIC DISHWASHER, by CMC 
  o Happy With Viktor, Pippin 
  o Let's Hold the Fanfic off, by Pippin 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=1099982  

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 







From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Fri May 30 22:23:02 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 30 May 2003 22:23:02 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter 
Message-ID: <1054333382.213.8141.w20@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-OTChatter group:

2003 PICKLED TOAD AWARDS: BEST 
DRAMATIZATION OF A SCENE FROM CANON IN 
A SERIOUS FASHION OR BEST SERIOUS FILK.
Entries have been listed in random 
order.  
Entries can be found either at HPfGU, 
at CMC's filksite, 
http://home.att.net/~coriolan/ 
or as otherwise noted.
Please vote for two (2) entries.
Results will be announced in July. 

  o The Goblet Game, by Toby Howe 
  o The Explanation, by Gail 
  o Send Me My Broom, by CMC 
  o Flesh, Blood and Bone, by Mariner 
  o The Rat Had Come Out To Play, by Haggridd 
  o Cedric Diggory Guy, by Steffan 
  o Mother's love, by Lilac 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=1099983  

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 







From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Fri May 30 22:23:33 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 30 May 2003 22:23:33 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter 
Message-ID: <1054333413.242.26736.w25@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-OTChatter group:

2003 PICKLED TOAD AWARDS: BEST 
DRAMATIZATION OF A SCENE FROM CANON IN 
A HUMOROUS FASHION.
Entries have been listed in random 
order.  
Entries can be found either at HPfGU, 
at CMC's filksite, 
http://home.att.net/~coriolan/ 
or as otherwise noted.
Please vote for two (2) entries.
Results will be announced in July. 

  o One More Handshake, by Mariner 
  o Voldemort Was Once Tom M Riddle, by Lilac 
  o Riddle's Giant Basilisk, by Pippin 
  o If You'd Just Let Me Explain, by Pippin 
  o Draco's Hairbrush Song, by Julie 
  o The Biggerstaff Song, by Waterlily12 (found at the Rhythm & Rhyme section of FictionAlley) 
  o Tangled Up In Floo, by Mariner 
  o Don't Go To the Ball With Viktor Krum, by Haggridd 
  o One More Handshake, by Mariner 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=1099984  

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 







From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Fri May 30 22:25:32 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 30 May 2003 22:25:32 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter 
Message-ID: <1054333532.204.11131.w11@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-OTChatter group:

2003 PICKLED TOAD AWARDS: AUTHOR'S 
CHOICE. BEST FILK AS NOMINATED BY ITS 
AUTHOR (BUT EVERYONE MAY VOTE).
Entries have been listed in random 
order.  
Entries can be found either at HPfGU, 
at CMC's filksite, 
http://home.att.net/~coriolan/ 
or as otherwise noted.
Please vote for two (2) entries.
Results will be announced in July. 

  o Talk To The Basilisks, by CMC 
  o Mad-Eye, by CMC 
  o Only Neville, by Ginger 
  o Accio Is Hard To Do, by Ginger 
  o Professor Lockhart, by Haggridd 
  o Transfiguration, by Haggridd 
  o The Ballad of Harry Potter, byGail 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=1099987  

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 







From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Fri May 30 22:25:18 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 30 May 2003 22:25:18 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter 
Message-ID: <1054333518.206.57173.w84@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-OTChatter group:

2003 PICKLED TOAD AWARDS: BEST FILK OF 
A TUNE NOT KNOWN TO THE LISTENER AT THE 
TIME OF NOMINATION.
Entries have been listed in random 
order.  
Entries can be found either at HPfGU, 
at CMC's filksite, 
http://home.att.net/~coriolan/ 
or as otherwise noted.
Please vote for two (2) entries.
Results will be announced in July. 

  o Severus' Bar, by Highlander 
  o That Drip Potter, by Sherman Dorn 
  o Cruel, Cruel Incredulous Men, by Haggridd 
  o The Rat That Got Away, by CMC 
  o Werewolves of Hogwarts, by Polish Girl 
  o You can Always Count On me, by Haggridd 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=1099985  

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 







From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Fri May 30 22:26:10 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 30 May 2003 22:26:10 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter 
Message-ID: <1054333570.175.70126.w54@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-OTChatter group:

2003 PICKLED TOAD AWARDS: BEST CHOICE OF
VEHICLE (best choice of the original 
song by the author for the purpose of 
his particular filk).
.
Entries have been listed in random 
order.  
Entries can be found either at HPfGU, 
at CMC's filksite, 
http://home.att.net/~coriolan/ 
or as otherwise noted.
Please vote for two (2) entries.
Results will be announced in July. 

  o Harry Potter and the Declaration of Independence:  Songs from the Musical 1776, by Haggridd (found at Ridikkulus.org) 
  o Azkaban, by CMC 
  o Professor Lockhart, by Haggridd 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=1099988  

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 







From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Fri May 30 22:33:22 2003
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 30 May 2003 22:33:22 -0000
Subject: New poll for HPFGU-OTChatter 
Message-ID: <1054334002.167.46397.w70@yahoogroups.com>


Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
HPFGU-OTChatter group:

2003 PICKLED TOAD AWARDS: BEST FILK OF 
A CHRISTMAS SONG.
Entries have been listed in random 
order.  
Entries can be found either at HPfGU, 
at CMC's filksite, 
http://home.att.net/~coriolan/ 
or as otherwise noted.
Please vote for two (2) entries.
Results will be announced in July. 

  o The Nativity Filks, by Melody and Pip 
  o Polyjuice, by Gail 
  o Scabbied Hands, by CMC 
  o Lockhart the Dark Arts teacher, by Gail 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/surveys?id=1099991  

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

 







From chl0525 at hotmail.com  Fri May 30 23:13:16 2003
From: chl0525 at hotmail.com (chl0525)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 23:13:16 -0000
Subject: Traveling to London
Message-ID: <bb8oic+be7c@eGroups.com>

My family and I will be in London from June 3-11. We are 
planning on hitting the usual tourist hot spots (Tower/Bridge, 
misc Museums, London Eye, etc.). There are so many fabulous 
things to see there, any suggestions?

thanks,
Michelle




From jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com  Fri May 30 22:59:17 2003
From: jkusalavagemd at yahoo.com (Haggridd)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 22:59:17 -0000
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT:  THE POLLS ARE OPEN FOR THE 2003 PICKLED TOAD AWARDS!
Message-ID: <bb8no5+ool0@eGroups.com>

There are sixteen (16) polls open at HPfGU-OT Chatter for the various 
categories for the first annual Pickled Toad awards.  Please vote for 
two entries.  Due to technical considerations, your votes for winner 
and for runner-up will count equally.  The polls will close at the 
end of June.  Results will be tallied and winners will be contacted 
in July.  Those winners who attend Nimbus 2003 will receive their 
statuettes at that time.

There is no poll for "Best Filk of 2003" because almost everyone 
concentrated on the various categories when making their nominations.
A second poll of the category winners to be held the first two weeks 
of July will determine Best Filk of 2003.

I would like to thank you all for your ballots and you interest.  I 
particularly want to express my gratitude to Kelley Elf, Caius Marcus 
Coriolanus, Gail B., Amy Z. and Heidy Tandy.

--Haggridd





From catlady at wicca.net  Sat May 31 02:10:35 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 02:10:35 -0000
Subject: 555-1212 (was: Questions for our UK HPphiles
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20030524174625.009a03c0@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <bb92ur+107t6@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, GulPlum <hp at p...> wrote:

> Back to the question, though: there isn't any kind of reserved 
> number used for fictional purposes. British fiction (books, movies,
> TV) will either use a real number if appropriate, or not include an
> area code. The number itself will probably be valid, and nobody can
> fault the producer/writer if someone is stupid enough to try to
> call a number without an area code.

more stupid callers: 
http://discover.npr.org/rundowns/segment.jhtml?wfId=1280819




From catlady at wicca.net  Sat May 31 03:14:48 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 03:14:48 -0000
Subject: Harry Haters and the Lack of Proof
In-Reply-To: <152.1fd39a34.2c08689c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <bb96n8+9s28@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Ripleywriter at a... wrote:

> Or, does anyone have any information they themselves can share to
> the opposite point of my article: the "actual" dangers (which are 
> mostly directly related to faulty parenting) of Harry Potter. Such 
> as...knowing a child who got the idea to try to create a magic 
> potion from the HP books and had to go to the hospital for
> ingesting poison of some kind. 

I hate to say anything that could give aid and comfort to the 
Harry-haters, but ... some years ago, an allegedly grown-up (17 
IIRC) member of the main list and her siblings became fond of 
playing 'Quidditch' by jumping onto an outdoor trampoline from a 
second-floor (I guess that would be first-floor to Brits) balcony 
with a broom between their legs and trying to catch a ball thrown at 
them by a non-jumping person while bouncing ...




From anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net  Sat May 31 04:18:10 2003
From: anneu53714 at sbcglobal.net (Anne)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 04:18:10 -0000
Subject: Muggle Quidditch
In-Reply-To: <bb96n8+9s28@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb9ae2+10lt1@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince 
Winston)" <catlady at w...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Ripleywriter at a... wrote:
> 
> > Or, does anyone have any information they themselves can share to
> > the opposite point of my article: the "actual" dangers (which are 
> > mostly directly related to faulty parenting) of Harry Potter. 
Such 
> > as...knowing a child who got the idea to try to create a magic 
> > potion from the HP books and had to go to the hospital for
> > ingesting poison of some kind. 
> 
> I hate to say anything that could give aid and comfort to the 
> Harry-haters, but ... some years ago, an allegedly grown-up (17 
> IIRC) member of the main list and her siblings became fond of 
> playing 'Quidditch' by jumping onto an outdoor trampoline from a 
> second-floor (I guess that would be first-floor to Brits) balcony 
> with a broom between their legs and trying to catch a ball thrown 
at 
> them by a non-jumping person while bouncing ...

Welll.... the jumping out of a second-story window doesn't sound very 
smart. My daughter and I "play Qudditch" but we do it a different and 
safer way. We sit on the swings in our yard and swing back and forth 
and pass a Nerf football between us (all the while I'm doing running 
commentary a la Lee Jordan) and occasionally one of us will throw 
the "Quaffle" over a part of the swing set and we shout "Gryffindor 
scores!" (Note, we are always Gryffindor :-)

Anne U
(anybody have any good noms de plume for fan fiction writers? I need 
one)





From Ripleywriter at aol.com  Sat May 31 05:06:06 2003
From: Ripleywriter at aol.com (Ripleywriter at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 01:06:06 EDT
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Harry Haters and the Lack of Proof
Message-ID: <f4.2d08765c.2c09923e@aol.com>


Ok...I really think the only person who understood the point of my post 
(which I thought was very clear, but *sigh* I suppose not) was catlady, but that 
was only in response to the other part of my article that is tied to bad 
supervision or faulty parenting. 

The rest of the people missed my point. I've been spinning myself in circles 
trying to think of a way to make my point and my question clear, but alas, I 
fear I'll only create more trouble for myself by having peopel misinterpret it 
again, or maybe I wasn't clear enough, don't know, don't care. Just drop the 
whole thing, ok?

Melly




From catlady at wicca.net  Sat May 31 10:41:06 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 10:41:06 -0000
Subject: why "United"?
Message-ID: <bba0s2+5ni8@eGroups.com>

Why are association football (soccer) teams (clubs) named so-and-so 
United?




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Sat May 31 12:15:41 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 12:15:41 -0000
Subject: Questions for our UK HPphiles
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20030524174625.009a03c0@plum.cream.org>
Message-ID: <bba6dd+7nai@eGroups.com>

GulPlum explained:

> Furthermore, there are special "area" codes which are for special 
systems 
> and are area-independent. Examples:
> 076 (plus seven digits): pagers
> 077*(*), 078*(*), 079*(*) (plus six digits) cell phones

We need that here (this is a US American on the line).  One cause of 
the explosion of area codes in the US in the last several years is 
the proliferation of pagers, cell phones, and fax machines, so that 
areas have simply exceeded the ~ten million numbers that an area code 
can accommodate (in the US all numbers are 7 digits plus three-digit 
area code).  I've often wondered why we don't assign all cell phones 
in an area a "cell phone" area code, fax machines a "fax" area code, 
etc.  Maybe some places do.

Amy Z
sentimentally and irrationally attached to her childhood area code 
and happy it hasn't changed, and wondering what happens when the 
country runs out of area codes




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Sat May 31 12:18:48 2003
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 08:18:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Happy Birthday, Simon!
Message-ID: <20030531121848.14454.qmail@web41106.mail.yahoo.com>

*blows up balloons, hangs streamers and otherwise
makes the party room ready for the today's event*

Could one of you folks help me bring in all this food?
Thanks, we've really got to get this stuff ready.

Today's birthday honouree is Simon. Birthday owls can
be sent care of this list or directly to
simon.hp at virgin.net

May your day be filled with joy, magic and everything
good.

Happy Birthday, Simon!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf

=====
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously." - Dave Barry

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Sat May 31 12:23:22 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 12:23:22 -0000
Subject: Oldbies (WAS Re: Posts that get replies (or not))
In-Reply-To: <bauci4+hq5m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bba6rq+dvs@eGroups.com>

Cindy wrote:

> OK, I have no idea.  I think the problem here is that we need a 
> *true* olbie -- someone like Joywitch or Amanda or Amy Z -- to 
> explain what makes a regular old member morph into a 
proper "oldbie."

It's a good thing Joywitch isn't here.  In her case the criterion is 
being Curmudgeonly.  (I.e., she was *born* old.)

> Heh.  It's funny how it seems that others have been around a lot 
> longer than you, even when they haven't.  For instance, it feels to 
> me like David and Amy Z have been around since the flood, but I 
> think they only have a few months on me.  

Exactly.  When referred to as an oldbie, I have a tendency to look 
around in surprise, see Rita behind me, and think, "oh, they must be 
talking about *her*."  

It works the other way too.  I think of David (subscribed, what, 
April '01?) as a young'un, because I'd been around for 4 months at 
that point (and vaulted to the top of the posters list with myrapid-
fire posting habits . . . maybe I was the inspiration for moderating 
newbies <g>).  Now, as my time here stretches to a geological age, 
the difference between a December '00 and an April '01 signup date 
seems negligible.

Amy the Ancient
downing her Spectrum Silver and hunting around for her reading glasses




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Sat May 31 13:20:29 2003
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 13:20:29 -0000
Subject: Harry Haters and the Lack of Proof /intolerable art/another religious view
In-Reply-To: <f4.2d08765c.2c09923e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <bbaa6t+ojsi@eGroups.com>

HARRY HATERS:

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Ripleywriter at a... wrote:
> 
> Ok...I really think the only person who understood the point of my 
post 

I thought *I* understood it, and that Dumbledad also did and 
responded very helpfully.  

If I understand correctly, you'd like to know the basis of the 
religious argument against HP, their "proof" if you will.  I think 
I've read enough of them to give some kind of answer.  For some 
people, the Biblical injunction against sorcerors and diviners means 
that witchcraft is evil and they do not want children to get HP's 
message that it can be good, harmless, or plain old fun.  For some, 
the powers exhibited by Harry and Co. are problematic because 
supernatural powers are good only when they come from God or are 
practiced in his name, i.e. by Christian prophets.  For some, such 
things as the apparent toleration of lying, the portrayal of many 
adults as weaker/more foolish/more evil than children, and 
Dumbledore's view of death as "the next great adventure" clash with 
their world view.

For some, lines like "there is no good or evil; there is only 
power..." express a view that is abhorrent to their morality and so 
they don't want people to read them.  Some of these seem unaware that 
those words are put in the mouth of one of the most evil characters 
and thus it's quite clear that JKR shares their morality on this 
point; others just don't think evil sentiments should *ever* be 
voiced in a book, however large the flashing neon signs saying "THIS 
IS EVIL!" may be.  

The web is full of examples.  Here are a few I've read:

www.crossroad.to/text/articles/ Harry&Witchcraft.htm 

www.facingthechallenge.org/potter.htm

http://www.academon.com/lib/paper/9305.html  (an abstract--it's on 
a "buy this term paper" site, so I would hope it will not be of use 
to anyone with any kind of moral integrity)

www.surfinthespirit.com/entertainment/ harry-potter.shtml 

http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/hpmain.html  

Whether you think they've offered "proof" or not is something for you 
to determine.  IMO, many of them have adequate proof that HP violates 
their views.  I think their *views* are inadequately supported by 
proof, but I think they are quite right:  HP promotes, or makes light 
of, opinions that they despise.

Did I understand you correctly?

One aside.  Someone's disapproval of a book should not be elided with 
the banning or burning of it.  There are lots of people who think HP 
has an evil message and they don't want their children to read it, 
but they have no intention of interfering with anyone else's right to 
read it (e.g. by banning it or getting it off library shelves), nor 
do they burn copies.  They just decline to read it or to allow their 
children to; one may judge that the former is narrowminded and the 
latter is bad parenting, but neither by any stretch can be 
called "banning."

ART THAT'S WAY OUT OF WHACK WITH ONE'S MORAL VIEWS

To my shame, I have not read Lolita, but I love the movie (the first 
one!  No offense to Jeremy Irons intended, but why would anyone 
bother to remake a movie starring James Mason?).  I think my dh, who 
has taught the book and loves it, would say that among other things, 
Nabokov is trying to look at the life of someone whose obsession puts 
him on or outside the margins of society.  And I think that conveying 
the inner life of someone who is so marginal that most of us find him 
incomprehensible is a very noble purpose of art.  However, thinking 
of a book I couldn't finish (Tournier's The Ogre, about a child-
murderer), I agree with Dumbledad that I sometimes have to stop 
because as much as I want to know what makes a child-murderer tick, I 
get ill reading about it.

I think it's important to recognize that one can find great wisdom in 
a work of art even if it portrays evil, and even if it portrays evil 
in a non-judgmental way.  Whenever this argument comes up I think of 
Frank Capra, who had to fight Hollywood censors to allow It's a 
Wonderful Life to end without Mr. Potter <g> getting punished.  The 
Hayes rules were that bad guys cannot get away with it.  I find the 
Hayes attitude offensive to *my* world view, which says that bad guys 
often do get away with it and tying up every loose end neatly denies 
the persistence of evil.

ANOTHER RELIGIOUS VIEW

I just learned that there will be a program on using HP to teach 
religious values at my upcoming church conference.  I'm not sure 
whether the vehicle is a worship service or a religious education 
curriculum, but it looks interesting.  And it just goes to show that 
some of us find HP not in tension with the morality we wish to teach 
children, but particularly suited to it.  But you knew that already.

http://www.uua.org/ga/all.html  and search for "Harry"

Amy Z




From editor at texas.net  Sat May 31 14:03:21 2003
From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Geist)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 09:03:21 -0500
Subject: Harry *Disapprovers*, was Harry Haters
Message-ID: <003f01c3277d$65a34520$c104a6d8@texas.net>

I haven't been following this thread in detail; I've only caught a few of
the posts. I have two things to say.

1. To Ripleywriter:

Here is the URL of the best analysis of the anti-HP reaction that I have
read. It looks at how HP, Lord of the Rings, and Narnia all treat magic, how
they are similar and how they differ, and the implications of those
differences being the basis of the different degrees of acceptance of those
works: "A Christian Reading of Spells and the Supernatural in the Works of
J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis, and in J. K. Rowling's Harry Potter Books."

http://members.tripod.com/Snyder_AMDG/SDG.html

2. RE: bboy's post:

Most of us disagree with those who find in HP either something to fear or
something to lead one's soul astray. However, his language was a bit, um,
un-circumspect. And not everyone who disapproves of HP is out there stoking
book-fires. Some of them just quietly disapprove, which is their loss but
nothing I can argue with.

Some of those reactions *are* informed ones, they *have* read the books;
many of them are not informed reactions, but based only on hearsay and
emotion. Still, in most cases the decision's been made and neither cajolery,
explication, evidence, *or* abuse will shift the opinion in most cases. And
so I do not bother unless attacked. And an inquiry is not an attack.

When you get into belief systems, you pretty much have to stop asking them
to make sense. Most of our list attitude towards the HP-haters is based on
the fact that their attitude doesn't make sense. It has always amused me
that we *expect* it to; faith by definition makes logical leaps. Any faith
system has the stuff you can't explain and must take on belief. So
addressing a faith-based reaction with logic is a flawed approach to begin
with.

Ergo, they will not understand us, and we will not understand them. And
that's pretty much it. Vilifying their attitude won't help much. The fact of
the matter is, as the Rock Man says in The Point--"You see what you want to
see, and you hear what you want to hear. Dig?"

~Amanda, showing her age
---------------------------
Those who cannot hear the music, think the dancers daft.




From pennylin at swbell.net  Sat May 31 14:10:44 2003
From: pennylin at swbell.net (pennylin)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 09:10:44 -0500
Subject: Harry Haters
Message-ID: <01ab01c3277e$6d8f5b60$4f5ffea9@cq5hs01>

Hi --

Melly wrote:

<<<<<<<< The rest of the people missed my point. I've been spinning myself
in circles
trying to think of a way to make my point and my question clear, but alas, I
fear I'll only create more trouble for myself by having peopel misinterpret
it
again, or maybe I wasn't clear enough, don't know, don't care. Just drop the
whole thing, ok?>>>>>>>>>>>

Well, speaking as someone who took some reasonable amount of time to compose
my response to you, I'm not finding the above to be very pleasant.  I'm not
going to do your work *for* you, but I certainly gave you a number of
sources where you could pursue researching the precise objections of some
Christians to the HP series.  If you didn't phrase your question properly,
the courteous response would have been "thanks to all who replied to my
question; I appreciate your thoughts."  Everyone who responded was courteous
and friendly and offered up suggestions for further research.  I wish you
had responded in kind.

Penny





From simon.hp at virgin.net  Sat May 31 14:40:46 2003
From: simon.hp at virgin.net (Simon Branford)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 14:40:46 -0000
Subject: Oldbies and why "United"?
In-Reply-To: <bba6rq+dvs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <bbaete+1089d@eGroups.com>

Amy:
> Cindy:
> > Heh.  It's funny how it seems that others have been around a lot 
> > longer than you, even when they haven't.  For instance, it feels 
> > to me like David and Amy Z have been around since the flood, but 
> > I think they only have a few months on me.  
> 
> Exactly.  When referred to as an oldbie, I have a tendency to look 
> around in surprise, see Rita behind me, and think, "oh, they must 
> be talking about *her*."  

I usually think of Paul, Jen (P) and Penny when the term oldbies is 
used. Like Amy I tend to look at others if anyone refers to me as an 
oldbie.


> It works the other way too.  I think of David (subscribed, what, 
> April '01?) as a young'un, because I'd been around for 4 months at 
> that point <snip>

I often refer to Heidi as a newbie. I signed up in April/May 2000 and 
Heidi a couple of months later (just before the release of GoF). Even 
so I can remember her first posting to the list.



Rita:
> Why are association football (soccer) teams (clubs) named so-and-so 
> United?

I have no idea. Not the most useful answer I have ever given!


Simon
(who is wandering through for the party)




From tahewitt at yahoo.com  Sat May 31 17:04:10 2003
From: tahewitt at yahoo.com (Tyler Hewitt)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 10:04:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Traveling to London
In-Reply-To: <1054366869.391.66171.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030531170410.94986.qmail@web14202.mail.yahoo.com>

Michelle wrote:

My family and I will be in London from June 3-11. We
are 
planning on hitting the usual tourist hot spots
(Tower/Bridge, misc Museums, London Eye, etc.). There
are so many fabulous things to see there, any
suggestions?

ME:
Firstly, thants to everyone who responded to a similar
post I made about a week ago. I've recieved a lot of
interesting suggestions, and some nice photos as well.

I'll be going to London late June-early July myself,
with a side trip to Edinburgh. One thing I've found
that sounds really interesting,and would be good for a
family is Pollock's Toy Museum
http://www.pollocksweb.co.uk/
It's all antique toys, etc. Has anyone from this list
been there? Is it worth going?

Tyler

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From hp at plum.cream.org  Sat May 31 20:09:59 2003
From: hp at plum.cream.org (GulPlum)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 21:09:59 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] why "United"?
In-Reply-To: <bba0s2+5ni8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20030531204059.00981a50@plum.cream.org>

At 11:41 31/05/03 , Catlady \(Rita Prince Winston\) wrote:
>Why are association football (soccer) teams (clubs) named so-and-so
>United?

It's quite obvious, if you think about it.

At the beginning of the 20th century, the establishment of professional 
clubs called for the merging of several smaller amateur clubs (most of 
which were connected in one way or another with large employers) to create 
the teams and infrastructure. Hence the popularity of "united" teams. Most 
of these took the name of the geographical catchment area in order to 
transfer the existing sense of "belonging" from one of a common employer to 
a common place.

My favourite name of all British football teams is Sheffield Wednesday. The 
origin is, of course, that before they turned professional, they only ever 
had time to play on Wednesdays. ;-)

Which reminds me... There is a UK newspaper, especially designed for 
"commuter" readers called Metro (several large cities have local editions, 
all funded by advertising and hence "free" to the end user - 
http://www.metro.co.uk) runs something called "Think Tank" each day, which 
consists of three quick quizzes, riddles or puzzles.

Last Monday's edition included the following:
"Which one of these is the odd one out: Bristol, Blackburn, Doncaster, 
Raith, Tranmere, Wycombe?"

Answer below.

Tuesday's edition, BTW, included the following, to which I will NOT provide 
the answer, and not even all the clues:

"This premier British school is based in Scotland and trains its pupils 
from the ages of 11 to 18 in various vocational subjects. The school's 
crest bears a badger, lion, serpent and eagle in quarters on a gules 
background. What is the school's name?" (the clue I've not provided is the 
school's motto)

:-)

(Answer to first puzzle: Wycombe. The football team is called Wycombe 
Wanderers. All the others are [Town Name] Rovers.)

--
GulPlum AKA Richard, who is NOT a football fan and really should make time 
to catch up with the main list...



From catlady at wicca.net  Sat May 31 23:10:25 2003
From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 23:10:25 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday/Area Codes/why "United"
Message-ID: <bbbcp1+ivr9@eGroups.com>

Rylly Elf wrote:

<< Today's birthday honouree is Simon. >>

Awright Dr Branford! Happy Birthday, Simon the oldbie.

Amy Z wrote:

<< I've often wondered why we don't assign all cell phones in an area 
a "cell phone" area code, fax machines a "fax" area code, etc. >>

When that is suggested, public objections include that some people 
have one phone # and switch it between regular, fax, and PC by 
plugging the fax or PC in when they want to use it.

The other objection to ANY kind of overlay (whether the overlaid area 
code is for faxes or for new-after-a-date-certain service) is that it 
would require people to use an area code when calling a number in the 
same area, or even same building. In general, I think the easier 
solution is to make it allowed (or even required) to punch all ten 
digits for every call even within the same area code, and then people 
wouldn't have to find out what area code they were calling from in 
order to know whether they must punch the area code or it is 
forbidden to punch the area code.

But I have noticed that the 310 area code (in which I live and 
sometimes shop but don't work) retains the old-fashioned custom of 
businesses (like doctors) put only seven digits on their ads and 
their business cards. That certainly helps me understand why 
Downtown/Hollywood/Valley publications seem to share a world-view 
that the Westside thinks of itself as some kind of moated island, an 
enclave separated from the rest of the city and county.

GulPlum wrote:

<< At the beginning of the 20th century, the establishment of         
professional clubs called for the merging of several smaller amateur 
clubs (most of which were connected in one way or another with large 
employers) to create the teams and infrastructure. Hence the 
popularity of "united" teams. Most of these took the name of the 
geographical catchment area in order to transfer the existing sense 
of "belonging" from one of a common employer to a common place. >>

I suspected as much, but I couldn't find any proof on the Web 
(admittedly I am not as good a Web searcher as Lee) and I hesitated 
to say that the USA side "DC United" 's name is wrong based on mere 
suspicion.




From Ripleywriter at aol.com  Sat May 31 23:57:27 2003
From: Ripleywriter at aol.com (Ripleywriter at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 19:57:27 EDT
Subject: Oy. Let's hope this ends it...
Message-ID: <b7.327192d9.2c0a9b67@aol.com>

This is in reply to the whole "Harry Haters" thing. 

So, I went and reread my original post and looked at it with the thought of 
how it could be misinterpreted. That post went through a lot of editing before 
I sent it, and I can now see why people misunderstood me, yet I can also see 
why some people actually did understand me. 

I just want the subject dropped, and if my last post requesting just that was 
discourteous, well, it wasn't meant to be. I've looked at things from your 
perspective, now look at things from mine: I thought my original request was, 
and in some cases it was, clear. But to some it was not and it was my error for 
not using a sledgehammer. 

Wouldn't I have to be learning deficient to ask the list an easy question 
like why religious people (or any others) have a problem with Harry Potter? I 
know about all the books, I did quote a review of one, after all. And I've read 
tons of articles, all saying or repeating the same things. I wasn't looking for 
books or accusations or passages from the HP books or comparisons to the 
bible, or so on and so on. That's not *proof* for goodness sake. That's words. 
Easy to disagree with, easy to have a different opinion of, words.

Facts, proof is a seemingly sensible young girl throwing away her bible and 
refusing to go to church with her family anymore because she wants to be a 
witch and practice magic just like in Harry Potter. That's a direct cause of 
reading the books. That gives all those Harry Haters a basis for their beliefs, 
factual proof to back them up. That young girl would not have done that if she 
had not read the HP books. And because she did, there will be negative 
consequences. 

What I was trying to say in my original post is that all these Harry Haters 
talk and talk about what reading Harry might and could do to children. I wanted 
someone to show me what it actually *has* done. 

Btw, I never said all people who don't want their children reading Harry want 
the books banned. I said 'some' in my original post and I'm quite correct 
with saying that. I actually agree with and heartily commend the responsible 
parents who only wish to inform other parents of the dangers they believe Harry 
Potter might present to their children. Whether or not I agree with them is not 
important. 

If I was unclear before, and if I have been unclear now, I meant what I said. 
I don't know. I can't know what everyone will make of my words. And I don't 
care anymore! I just want to drop it. I know what I need to know: you'd have to 
dig with a very large, supercharged shovel to find a shred of proof. I 
certainly haven't found it, and I don't think I will. 

Melly
P.S. I wasn't trying to be rude, before or now, and if I came off as rude 
then you're looking for me to be rude and that's your own fault.