[HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Festive Note - Nativity Plays

[Shaun Hately]

On 23 Nov 2003 at 17:37, melclaros wrote:
 
> Let's put it this way: You won't see a LEGAL one. What some nutcases 
> slip under the radar until the ACLU finds out is a whole 'nother 
> topic--one that would fit under previous discussions on things like 
> book banning and burning.

I find this topic moderately fascinating.

I'm Australian, and like Americans, Australians are guaranteed freedom of religion 
and the separation of Church and State in our Constitution. As a matter of fact, 
those who wrote our Constitution used the US Constitution as a model on this 
issue:

US Constitution (First Amendment):
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or 
prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Australian Constitution (Section 116):
"The Commonwealth shall not make any law for establishing any religion, or for 
imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any 
religion, and no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or 
public trust under the Commonwealth."

Reasonably similar language (Australia's was written by dozens and dozens of 
lawyers so naturally it takes a lot longer to say anything).

But the interpretations over the years have been fairly different.

American legal interpretations on 'freedom of religion' and the separation of 
church and state have seemed to me at times, to have gone too far. That's a 
personal opinion, of little value as I'm not a US citizen. But to me, any legal 
decision that bans Nativity plays (for example) moves into the realm of 'prohibiting 
the free exercise' of religion.

Here in Australia, the basic interpretation of freedom of religion, and the 
separation of church and state means that the government is forced to treat 
religious practices, or religious groups in *precisely* the same fashion as non 
religious practices, and non-religious groups in the same circumstances. Religion 
may not be afforded any privileges - but it can't be discriminated against either.

Nativity plays aren't that common in state run schools anymore - because most 
schools have diverse populations and have respect for that diversity. But it's not a 
compulsion - it is common courtesy.

The thing is... our courts have taken a less stringent approach on this - and the 
end result seems to be that we have far *less* involvement of religion in politics 
than the US does. We don't have a large and powerful religious right in Australia 
(we have Fred Niles, but he's generally regarded as a joke). Religion is *not* a 
factor in political decisions - the Churches do express views on 'social justice' 
issues at times - our Federal Treasurer's (a man who has a quite reasonable 
chance of being the country's next Prime Minister) brother is a religious minister 
who is quite willing to criticise government policy and gets attention when he does 
so. But religion really doesn't impact on our political system in the way it seems to 
in the US. 

Sometimes I wonder if the US is shooting itself in the foot on this issue.


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia