[HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: School Daze; Was Summer Birthdays

[Shaun Hately]

On 14 Oct 2003 at 23:02, msbeadsley wrote:

> Shaun wrote:
> <snip>
> 
> > It may seem paradoxical - but I felt *safe* for the first time in 
> > over a year in that class, that day.  They didn't actually use it 
> anywhere near as much as this talk lead me to believe, I might add. 
> <snip>
> > (waiting to be told he's a barbarian (-8 )
> 
> Not a barbarian. A barbarian would have been dealing out his *own* 
> corporal punishment ala Dudley. You are actually quite civilized, as 
> far as I can tell. ;-)

Heh - I might have tried that if I'd thought I'd have had a hope at all of winning - 
but I was attacked by groups of over 100 kids at a time. Fighting back in any form 
just didn't work.

Only once at the school from hell, did I take any action to defend myself - 
grabbing the hair of a boy who was crushing me against a wall with his motorised 
wheelchair in clear view of a teacher who did nothing - except come after me with 
a detention for defending myself. I'm not sure if that bully was worthy of protection 
because he was in a wheelchair (which he used to great effect as a weapon), or if 
it was the fact that his mother was a Cabinet Minister, that gave him special 
privileges.
 
> I went to somewhat dangerous schools for several years (muggings, 
> fights, knifings). And there was *lots* of corporal punishment 
> administered in my school in, oh, say, seventh through ninth grades; 
> it made no appreciable difference. In tenth grade I transferred to a 
> school which used almost no corporal punishment and which had few 
> discipline problems. The difference was structure; expectations were 
> expressed very clearly and everyone knew the consequences of stepping 
> out of line. Any infractions were dealt with immediately and without 
> discussion (parent conferences, detention, suspension, expulsion). I 
> don't think the difference is corporal punishment. It's consistent 
> discipline, whatever form it takes. (I prefer the version which does 
> *not* involve giving anyone other than a parent the choice to strike 
> a child, but that's just me. Hitting is clear and unambivalent and 
> quick; and it's relatively easy. But other methods do not reinforce 
> acceptance of violence.)

I don't think corporal punishment reinforces acceptance of violence. I never have. 
I think kids are easily intelligent enough to understand the difference between 
corporal punishment and violence in general, and understand that the latter is not 
acceptable, even in environments where the former is - and there's studies to 
back that up.

But I certainly agree that corporal punishment isn't the only answer to disciplinary 
problems - I know there are schools that do an excellent job with other methods. I 
just happen to think that it's better than nothing at all - and here at least, when it 
was taking out of state schools, there wasn't any concerted effort to replace it with 
other methods.

I certainly don't think it should be used a lot - the main reason it worked at the 
school I attended is because it was part of a large arsenal of approaches to 
discipline - not all of which were punitive at all. They used what seemed 
appropriate in every individual situation. But they didn't rule any method out.

I would have liked a system where the bullies who went after me were subjected 
to corporal punishment, but where I was totally immune to the possiblity (-8

Unfortunately, it didn't seem to work that way. They had this strange idea that 
everybody should be subjected to the same sanctions...


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia