[HPFGU-OTChatter] Info for FF moderators and writers. (sort of Humour)

[Sherry Gomes]

I, for one, really appreciate all the hard work of the admin team at Fiction
Alley.  Yesterday, I was reading a fic, that had a fairly good plot, but the
grammar was so bad, it distracted me from the story.  The author used
repeated instances of incorrect words.  Things like, "has" when it should
have been "have", or "came" when it should have been "come".  And of course,
the repeated use of the word "form" when the author meant "from", which is a
really easy mistake to do.  I am a fast typist, and sometimes, I transpose
letters, form and from being a good example.  I always read over my writing
to try to find such things.

I also use screen reading software to operate a computer.  I can't express
how difficult it can be to have to listen to a poorly spelled or punctuated
email message or fan fic, since that's the topic.  Without the proper
punctuation, the voice can just drone on and on, with no pauses, and the
content can be hard to understand.  My personal biggest gripe is the use of
an apostrophe instead of quotes in dialog.  I can adjust my screen reader's
punctuation settings, so it doesn't say every period, coma, quote or
question mark.  It will pause, or give a questing inflection instead of
naming the punctuation.  However, unless I turn it off completely, it does
say apostrophe, when that symbol is used instead of a quote.  For example,
here is written out, the way my screen reader might say a line of dialog
that uses apostrophes, instead of quotes.  This is what I will hear.

apostrophe, Hi.   how are you? apostrophe she said, apostrophe how was your
summer? apostrophe

I usually won't even read a story that does that because the constant
apostrophe drives me right out of my mind.  I don't know if this is part of
the posting guidelines, or if there is a legitimate reason for the use of an
apostrophe instead of a quotation mark.

anyway, I just wanted to chime in about grammar, because in some ways, I
think the internet age has caused a lot of people to grow lax on the issue.
It's becoming a big problem in business.

Oh, another personal dislike--though I don't see this in fics, more often in
email--is the use of .. or ... between phrases, instead of using sentence
structure and periods.  Again, and example of how the screen reader might
read this stuff would be:

I went shopping today dot dot dot I bought some books dot dot dot I also met
my friends for lunch dot dot dot and then we all went to a movie dot dot dot
it was a fun day dot dot dot

Try reading that aloud.  (shudders and wrenches hair out by the roots!)

Ok, ok.  I'll shut up now!  However, I know that I definitely appreciate the
well written and well plotted stories.  I can't enjoy one without the other.
In fact, in my own personal writing, a friend of mine, who is almost as
particular as I am, checks everything I'm writing for publication to try to
catch the things I miss.  

Keep up the good work, Heidi, and all the admins!

Sherry



-----Original Message-----
From: Heidi [mailto:heidi at heidi8.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 9:33 AM
To: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Info for FF moderators and writers. (sort of
Humour)



On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 10:58:19 +0000 (GMT), udder_pen_dragon
<udderpd at yahoo.co.uk> pasted in a poem that's been passed around
online for years regarding the faliability of spell checkers, and
commented,


> This I now dedicate to all Fiction Alley Moderators who believe that a
comma is more important than the story or the meaning of words.
> 


And, as I'm one of the FA admins, I'm not really sure how to take
that, so I'm asking all of you what your thoughts on stories are.

Is the meaning of the words more important than the punctuation of
those words, or can they be equally important? In other words, if you
read the following, would you think it was good or sloppy:

The hottest day of the summer, so, far was drawing to a close... And a
drowsy silence lay over the large square houses of Private Drive the
only person - left outside - was a teenage boy who was lying, flat on
his back, in a flowerbed outside number four."


What about:
Dumbeldoor lowered his hands and surveyed Harry through his half-moon
glasses. "It is time" He said "For me to tell you what I should have
told you five years ago Harry please sit down I am going to tell you
everything."

The prose in those sentences is word for word from OOTP, but I've
mucked up the punctuation and proper names in ways that we often see
on fics submitted to FictionAlley. As it happens, on FA, we have two
zones of rules for grammar & spelling - one set of unforgivables, and
one set of ordinary writing errors. The unforgivables include the
spelling of names of main characters (as defined by the Lexicon), the
improper use of apostrophes  and the punctuation of quotations, which
does incorporate comma usage.  Two or more inclusions of any
unforgivable means a fic will be sent back to the author for editing,
accompanied by a list of places on FA where one can go to learn about
things like quotation punctuation
(http://www.fictionalley.org/fictionalleypark/forums/showthread.php?s=&threa
did=34469
.

The ordinary writing errors include misspelling ordinary words,
obviously incorrect punctuation usage, using numerals instead of
spelling out numbers ("16" instead of "sixteen", for example) - stuff
like that. As we say on the site, "Clearly, sentence fragments, using
hyphens or commas instead of semicolons, or italicizing thoughts are
all things which are acceptable if done consistently and for stylistic
purposes. JKR's done it; why shouldn't fanfic writers?"

So you might ask, why do we do this? 

There's a few reasons:
A. When a story has sloppy or obviously incorrect grammar, it makes it
less enjoyable to read for many, many people. Let's look at a fic of
mine by way of example - which reads better? Version one or version
two?

ONE:

"Wheres the location of Potters secret hideout?" The inquisitor asked
in a voice that made even Ministry enforcers tremble. His wand, was at
the ready; and the word crucheo was forming in his throat.

"#4 Prevet Drive. Would you like me to take you there," The captive
replied in a voice filled with light and sincerity.

The inquisitor's wand dropped to the floor, and he moved away from the
script without even thinking: "Take me? What sort of game are you
playing Grifendoor? Shouldnt you be braver when faced with a cunning
death eater like me?"

TWO:

"Where is the location of Potter's secret hideout?" the inquisitor
asked in a voice that made even Ministry enforcers tremble. His wand
was at the ready and the word Cruicio was forming in his throat.

"Number Four Privet Drive. Would you like me to take you there?" the
captive replied in a voice filled with light and sincerity.

The inquisitor's wand dropped to the floor, and he moved away from the
script without even thinking. "Take me? What sort of game are you
playing, Gryffindor? Shouldn't you be braver when faced with a cunning
Death Eater like me?"

***

The words are identical; the commas and punctuation are different, as
is some of the spelling. And it makes a difference in the readability
of the fics. Now, we wouldn't send a fic back to the author if the
only issue with it was the colon before the quotation in the last para
in the first example. And we wouldn't even send it back if that error,
and a misspelling of Privet Drive were present. But an accumulation of
errors, especially easy-to-learn-and-fix ones like those regarding
quotation punctuation and major-character-name-spelling, does cause us
to send a fic back for editing. And, of course, no matter how many
times it's submitted, once it's bereft of unforgivables and reasonably
okay on the other fronts, we do upload it.

B. We're a 501(c)(3) educational entity, so it is important to us, as
regards our IRS status, to provide means for people to learn and
improve their writing. That is one of the pillars of our existence,
and if we uploaded fics without concern for their reasonable adherence
to grammar and spelling standards, we would be shirking this
fundamendal purpose of our existence. But because we recognize that
everyone has different preferences in terms of what they enjoy
reading, in terms of genre, style, plot, etc., we fics that cover a
wide range of characterisations, plot, and even canon adherence (if
you label it AU, we don't care what degree of "canon error" it
contains - we'll upload it). It's a fundamental balance that seems to
work for most people, and it's a contrast to other archives which look
for certain characterisations and sometimes even plots in the fics
they upload.

We do recognize that it's frustrating to have your fic sent back for
editing - and we've learned over the years that regardless of
someone's level of education, it's possible, and in fact likely, that
they've never learned how to punctuate dialogue - so we have tutorials
to explain it
(http://www.fictionalley.org/fictionalleypark/forums/showthread.php?s=&threa
did=34469),
and we even have a team who beta read snips of stories
(http://www.fictionalley.org/fictionalleypark/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&for
umid=151)
to explain how to use "fiction writing" grammar in fanfics.

In other words, in processing fics, we don't look to the plot or
characterisation in the story itself - too many people submit one
chapter at a time, from a longer fic, so we don't have the context to
look to anyway, and asking people to wait until a fic is done before
submitting it has been deemed an unfair burden on both readers and
writers. And we don't look to the inherent meaning of the individual
words, although we do send fics back if they have a number of
homophones & homonyms. We look for some basics of structure and
grammar, and we think that those basics are things every writer should
aspire to understanding.

So, thoughts? 

Heidi, explaining but not technically on behalf of FA



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