Who's Cedric? Your boyfriend? (was Re: Site Needed for Humorous Fic)

[heiditandy]

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "MsTattersall" <cwood at t...> 
wrote:
> >> udder pd wrote:
> > > I can fully understand her not wanting to use Fiction Alley 
they 
> > seem to have no regard for JKR's wishes and are filling their 
site 
> > with slash and student teacher pairings.
> >
> > Heidi Tandy replied: 
> > How do *you* know what JKR's wishes are in terms of fanfic? 
>  
> MsTattersall here:
> I think the point of this inquiry was less an indictment of 
> FictionAlley or an attempt to second-guess JKR than a request for 
an 
> alternative forum.

Oh, I certainly think the *inquiry* was. The follow-up post, on the 
other hand, can't be read as anything but a slam on, or, to use your 
phrase, an indictment of FictionAlley. 

> It does seem that FA leans heavily toward slash, 
> and that is certainly FA's right, privilege, and direction if that 
is 
> the preference of FA's marketplace. 

First of all, FA has no "marketplace". We host what is submitted to 
us, as long as said submission meets the criteria listed here: 
http://www.fictionalley.org/submit.html - we don't look at a fic's 
theme, and despite some lies that have been told about FA elsewhere, 
we do not look to a fic's ship (it used to be common for people to 
lie and say that FA wouldn't host R/Hr or H/G fics, fyi). 

Second, have you figured out how many fics on FA are slash, as 
versus romance-free or "het"? Because if you have - if anyone has - 
man, do we need their database or programming skills! 

We actually have no idea how many fics of any particular genre FA 
hosts. We have no database system in place to track such things. But 
a quick glance at the Cruisin' portiong of the "Sorting" section of 
FA, which is a forum where people can post links to fics, indicates 
that the thread that's post often posted to is Draco/Hermione, 
followed by Harry/Draco, then, in descending order, Harry/Hermione, 
Draco/Ginny, Ron/Hermione, Harry/Ginny, Remus/Sirius, Snape/Hermione 
and Lily/James. 

In other words, out of the nine most oft-posted-to fic list threads, 
two are slash and one is intergenerationl; none are both. I left off 
the tenth most popular, for this separate sentence - it's Tom/Ginny, 
with about 100 fics listed, and some people deem it intergeneration 
as he's about 50 years older, while other think it's not, as he was 
in stasis all these years. I think it's a call based on the specific 
story, really, but to each their own. 

>I can also understand why some 
> writers and readers would prefer a fiction venue where the 'ships 
> are "traditional" and seem to be more in keeping with the spirit 
of 
> HP canon. 

But, as you can see from the list above, or even a glance at today's 
Blog, FictionAlley certainly hosts "traditional" ships too! I mean, 
if someone is so homophobic that they won't let their fics be on a 
site that allows slash, too, where are they to go? Mugglenet? They 
can't go to Sugarquill, they can't go to Checkmated, they certainly 
won't go to Skyehawke, which hosts NC17 fics, too. I think the 
problem with being prejudiced and judgmental in this fandom is, 
there just are so many places where prejudice and judgmental 
behaviours are frowned upon that there's a limited scope for those 
who prefer things otherwise. 

I just took a glance at the summaries of all the fics FA has 
uploaded in the past few days 
(http://www.schnoogle.com/blog/index.shtml) and my, are they 
diverse! Look at just a few of the selections: 

Travel back in time with Roseline Kehst, the newest member of the 
Order of the Phoenix, back to her days in Hogwarts. Watch her 
relationship with Sirius as it unravels, with humour, passion, 
friendship, trust, companionship and, in later days, love.  (PG13)

A heart wrenching fic about how tragic events in life can change a 
person. Hermione Granger suffers abuse at the hands of Lucius 
Malfoy. Draco Malfoy gets caught in the middle. Severus Snape 
struggles to save the Hermione he once knew and unwittingly falls in 
love with her. (R)

Remus's memories of Sirius, from when they first discovered he was a 
werewolf to present time. SB/RL slash. (R)

In Harry's sixth year, he must learn to accept the cards fate has 
dealt him. With unexpected new abilities, a new crush, and a 
mysterious Veil, this might be one of Harry's most eventful years at 
Hogwarts! (PG13)

Harry is back at Hogwarts, but everything is going wrong. What's 
really happening, and why are Ron and Hermione being so different? 
Why are they crying? H/Hr, Hr/R. (PG13)

She was a bastard daughter, a child that Lucius Malfoy never wanted, 
never admitted to having. She didn't fit into his plans and she 
wasn't important, she wasn't a part of his life - until she decided 
to end it. (PG-13)

Harry finds himself locked in a crowded common room in nothing but 
his boxers! Ginny is there and isn't slightly embarrassed. (PG13)

Molly Weasley is writing her thirtieth anniversary letter to Arthur, 
but is sidetracked by childhood memories. (PG)

When the young Severus Snape is caught with a secret, experimental 
potion, he is obliged to make a deal with James Potter that he will 
later come to regret... (PG)

Five young Ravenclaws deal with an unexpected danger, learning that 
evil and darkness come in many forms, some more perilous than 
others. But when those who must combat this darkness aren't from the 
house of lions, where will they find the courage and strength to 
fight? And how can one of these Ravenclaws, the son of a great 
wizard, find his own identity and his own destiny? (PG13)

***********************************

You want traditional pairings and stuff that reads like canon? You 
won't find it in a fic about five young Ravenclaws. But if Harry's 
in his boxers in front of Ginny, is that really so different from 
being caught starkers by Moaning Myrtle? And while you seem to think 
that JKR has never 

> hinted at relationships between 
> professors, or between professors and students...

She has made side references to relationships between professors - 
Dumbledore's comment about Pomfrey's comment about his earmuffs, the 
little kiss Hagrid gives McGonnagal, the whole Hagrid/Maxime thing - 
aren't those relationships between professors? 

And Myrtle is a good fifty years older than Harry, hasn't been in 
stasis like Riddle, and is still *oggling* him and Cedric in GoF. 
Yes, she hasn't grown up, and no, there is no actual touching, but 
it's sneakily and cleverly referred to in the book. And while there 
may not be any "on the page" gay characters yet, I think Dudley's 
obnoxious question to Harry about Cedric ("Who's Cedric? Your 
boyfriend?") lets the reader know that as Dudley's being homophobic 
or at least snarking about the possibility of Harry being gay, then 
it's not a good/nice/smart thing to do. 


> Those who 
> write fanfic that follows the example she has set, and prefer not 
to 
> commingle it with fic that deviates so drastically from it, cannot 
be 
> faulted if they would like to choose another place to share it 
than 
> FA. They have a choice, also.

Yes, people have a choice to support censorship of thoughts and 
ideas. People can refuse to look at what the author herself has said 
about intergenerational "love stories" and presume that JKR thinks 
that all writings about such things are Bad Bad Bad. But if they 
want their fics hosted on sites that only host things that are 100% 
in keeping with canon, they ought to start their own archives, 
because they won't find such an attitude at any of the reasonably-
sized archives in this fandom. 


> No, they're not horrible, but in those examples you are talking 
about 
> relationships between adults. If it's a Snape/Harry or even Mme. 
> Hooch/Ron, we are looking at relationships between adults and 
minors, 
> which in most of the U.S. is illegal, even if it is completely 
> consensual. It certainly is not illegal to write fanfics about it, 
> but again, it may be the preference of some writers to choose not 
to, 
> and also to choose not to associate their work with those who do. 

Luckily, JKR doesn't feel the same way. People are certainly 
entitled to archive their fics anywhere they like, but they should 
justify their own personal decision by claiming that JKR wishes that 
people not write fanfic that contains gay characters, or that JKR 
wishes that people not write about intergenerational romances, or 
imply that JKR believes that intergenerational romances are 
inherently Bad Bad Bad. 

Furthermore, while the age of consent for gay relationships was 18 
in the UK until the late 90s (ie after the series is expected to be 
over) the age of consent in many states in the US and all throughout 
the UK to consent to heterosexual sex is a bit younger than that. 
Yes, of course, it is *wrong* for a teacher to seduce a student, but 
there's a number of fics on FA that deal with the "wrongness" issue, 
and others that try to explain it (from today's list, 
http://www.astronomytower.org/authors/chrmisha/OTWT01.html is one 
such example) and there's a pretty large number that find 22 year 
old Hermione falling in love with 38 year old Remus Lupin or Severus 
Snape - so, in those cases, the student is a former student, and is 
now an adult. 

Then again, I had a conversation once with someone who said that she 
didn't think a certain site would ever archive a Bill Weasley/Remus 
Lupin fic set during book 5 - not because it was slash, but because 
it was intergenerational. As this was before JKR's infamous Maths 
Issue this spring, I was under the impression, as were hundreds of 
others, that they were perhaps six years apart, and Bill had been a 
first year in Lupin's last. Who's right in this calculation> 
 
> Nobody's suggesting that anything anybody wants to post to FA 
should 
> be suppressed. FictionAlley seems to be a perfect example of 
freedom 
> of expression and it should be encouraged. But please don't make 
the 
> mistake of thinking that if somebody doesn't care for what you're 
> offering and wants to "do business" elsewhere, that is in any way 
> censorship or suppression of your forum. 

I wasn't trying to make the claim that it was such censorship or 
suppression, and I am sorry that it came off that way. 

However, I continue to be astonished that people who are fans of a 
book about tolerance - where it's commonplace to see interracial 
romances that would have been deemed shocking thirty - or even 
twenty - years ago, can demonstrate intolerance to the degree that 
they are shocked SHOCKED! that there may be gay witches and wizards. 
That in a world where the life expectancy seems to be over 100 
years, there wouldn't be intergenerational romances. That people 
should be allowed to write about bad things, and things they don't 
agree with - JKR does, so why shouldn't her fans? 

As JKR said in 2000 (http://www.the-leaky-
cauldron.org/quickquotes/articles/2000/1000-cbc-
rogers.htm), "Sometimes I get asked 'What would be your recipe for a 
happier life?' And I've always said 'A bit more tolerance from all 
of us.'" 

Heidi