From the main list: The roots of "Avada Kedavra"

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106573

From:  "kizor0" <ryokas at hotmail.com> 
Date:  Fri Jul 16, 2004  8:46 pm 
Subject:  Roots of 'Avada Kevadra' (Was: Vanquishing Voldemort)

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "aggiepaddy" <aggie at r...> wrote:
> On a side line, does anyone else think that 'Avada Kedavra' is
> JKR's 'version' of Abracadabra? It's sounds remarkably like it to me
> and I find that quite an eerie thought!!!

I've come across this before. My freaky memory supplies that 'Avada
Kedavra' is actually the root of the modern 'Abrakadabra'. The phrase
is in Arabic, Aramecian or some other language in that general
direction, and a strict translation would be 'let the thing be
destroyed'. Its use was not as obvious as one'd think; someone else
will likely be able to fill in the details better.

- Kizor 




106604

From:  Erica Sadun <erica at mindspring.com> 
Date:  Fri Jul 16, 2004  9:15 pm 
Subject:  Re: [HPforGrownups] Roots of 'Avada Kevadra' (Was:
Vanquishing Voldemort)

 
At 7:46 PM +0000 7/16/04, kizor0 wrote:

>My freaky memory supplies that 'Avada
>Kedavra' is actually the root of the modern 'Abrakadabra'. The phrase
>is in Arabic, Aramecian or some other language in that general
>direction, and a strict translation would be 'let the thing be
>destroyed'. Its use was not as obvious as one'd think; someone else
>will likely be able to fill in the details better.

<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=abracadabra+aramaic>
offers any number of meanings and interpretations, from the
Aramaic (avada kedavra, meaning "may the thing be destroyed"),
to Hebrew and beyond

-- Erica 



106613

From:  "nkafkafi" <nkafkafi at yahoo.com> 
Date:  Sat Jul 17, 2004  2:49 am 
Subject:  Re: Roots of 'Avada Kevadra' (Was: Vanquishing Voldemort)

 
> Erica wrote:
> <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-
1&q=abracadabra+aramaic>
> offers any number of meanings and interpretations, from the
> Aramaic (avada kedavra, meaning "may the thing be destroyed"),
> to Hebrew and beyond


Neri:
I don't know Aramaic, but I do know Hebrew, which is very similar. In
many cases (as in "Avada Kedavra") you just add the suffix "a" to the
Hebrew word, and you get the corresponding Aramaic word.

Based on my Hebrew I believe the common interpretation of Avada
Kedavra as "let the thing be destroyed" is wrong. We have:

"Avada" (Hebrew: "Avad") means "lost", frequently in the sense
of "died" or "destroyed".

"Ke" (same as in Hebrew) is a prefix meaning "by", or "as".

"Davra" (Hebrew: "Davar") usually indeed means "thing", but also
means "word", "saying" and in the bible "command", especially when
used with the prefix "Ke". For example, whenever a king of Israel is
properly religious, it is written in the bible that he did "KeDvar
Adonai" (literally: "as commanded by God").

So if we use the meaning Davra="a thing" we in fact get the
combination:
Avada Ke-Davra = "destroyed as a thing" which is meaningless.

But if we go with Davra="command" we get:
Avada Ke-Davra = "die as commanded" which is IMO the correct meaning.

Abra Kadabra is much more difficult to interpret. Kadabra could mean
the same as Kedavra (B and V are both denoted by the same letter
Beith). However, it is also possible that this combination has no
meaning at all and was only meant to sound like something in Aramaic,
as "hocus pocus" was meant to sound Latin, but (to my knowledge) has
no meaning.

Neri