From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Mar  1 19:22:18 2004
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (Mary Ann)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 19:22:18 -0000
Subject: What does this say about the locals?
Message-ID: <c202ha+7oau@eGroups.com>

**delurk**

I was in town (Weston-super-Mare, England) earlier today and noticed 
this sign on the glass door of one of the shops:

"This door is shut.  Please do not walk into it.  Thank you for your 
cooperation."

I can understand needing a sign or marker on the door for the 
visually impaired or downright stupid, but what amazes me is that 
the customers are *thanked* for not walking into the door.  Either 
the shop owner has a deliciously dry sense of humour or the locals 
are more inbred than I first realised.

Mary Ann, who only walks into things when she loses her glasses




From mphunt at sprintmail.com  Mon Mar  1 19:51:40 2004
From: mphunt at sprintmail.com (Tracy Hunt)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 19:51:40 -0000
Subject: What does this say about the locals?
In-Reply-To: <c202ha+7oau@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2048c+4vp9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Mary Ann" <macloudt at y...> 
wrote:
> **delurk**
> 
> I was in town (Weston-super-Mare, England) earlier today and 
noticed 
> this sign on the glass door of one of the shops:
> 
> "This door is shut.  Please do not walk into it.  Thank you for 
your 
> cooperation."
> 
> I can understand needing a sign or marker on the door for the 
> visually impaired or downright stupid, but what amazes me is that 
> the customers are *thanked* for not walking into the door.  Either 
> the shop owner has a deliciously dry sense of humour or the locals 
> are more inbred than I first realised.
> 
> Mary Ann, who only walks into things when she loses her glasses



Tcy offers:
Perhaps the shop owner is just tired of cleaning the face prints off 
the glass?  He's thanking them in advance for lightening his workload.

Tcy (who doesn't walk into things nearly as much as she trips over 
her own feet)




From bboy_mn at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  1 20:01:11 2004
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:01:11 -0000
Subject: JKR makes the list! ...and Harry too!
In-Reply-To: <000201c3fd53$f00fb520$18667144@Einstein>
Message-ID: <c204q7+3drr@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Iggy McSnurd"
<CoyotesChild at c...> wrote:
> 
> Iggy here:
> 
> An excerpt from Forbes financial magazine that you all might find
> interesting. -
> 
> This year, Forbes reports a record 587 billionaires, including 64
> newcomers hailing from 19 countries. Among them:
> 
> 
> In a fairy tale as fantastic as her popular "Harry Potter" series,
> former welfare mother J.K. Rowling makes her debut on the Forbes 
> list at 552.> 
> 
> Way to go, Jo!!!
> 
> Iggy McSnurd

bboy_mn:

If you have read the Movies group lately then you know that Dan
Radcliffe is listed as number FIVE in the list of UK's richest teens.

Here is a copy of my post from the Movie Group-
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

Some of you might not be aware that BBC Newsround posted a list of
Britian's richest teens. Dan Radcliffe came in at number 5 with ?10
million, that's about US$18.6 million at current exchange rates.

(Prince Harry (Henry) Windsor came in at #3 with ?28 million or US$52
million.)

(#15. Jamie Bell, 17, ?1.5 million (actor) US$2.8mil.)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/uk/newsid_3514000/3514011.stm

Unless Daniel Radcliffe has other sources of revenue, I think this
estimate of his wealth might be slightly exaggerated. Based on what
I've read, he got a couple hundred thousand for the first movie, and a
couple million for the second; not sure if that's dollars or Pounds.

It's possible that they are estimating his worth at the end of the HP
series, so they are including future revenue. Based on the movies, and
not knowing what he is getting for PoA and GoF, I'd say it's probably
closer to ?6 million (US$11 million), and of course, that does include
revenue for movies he hasn't been paid for. (Note: ?6 million includes
PoA and GoF.)

None the less, that's a lot of money for someone who is only 14.
Assuming his money isn't mismanaged, he is pretty much set for life.

No real point here, just passing this bit of trivia along.

bboy_mn







From kcawte at ntlworld.com  Tue Mar  2 05:46:15 2004
From: kcawte at ntlworld.com (Kathryn Cawte)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:46:15 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] What does this say about the locals?
References: <c202ha+7oau@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <003a01c40019$ad7cdbc0$bcde6251@kathryn>



> **delurk**
>
> I was in town (Weston-super-Mare, England) earlier today and noticed
> this sign on the glass door of one of the shops:
>
> "This door is shut.  Please do not walk into it.  Thank you for your
> cooperation."
>
> I can understand needing a sign or marker on the door for the
> visually impaired or downright stupid, but what amazes me is that
> the customers are *thanked* for not walking into the door.  Either
> the shop owner has a deliciously dry sense of humour or the locals
> are more inbred than I first realised.
>
> Mary Ann, who only walks into things when she loses her glasses
>
>

Perhaps he means "Thank you for not walking into my door, breaking it and
causing me to spend a lot of money replacing it while simultaneously having
to hire a lawyer to fight your claim that it's my fault you walked into it
in the first place."

I guess thank you for your cooperation is just easier to write :)

K





From paulag5777 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  1 23:11:46 2004
From: paulag5777 at yahoo.com (Paula Gaon)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:11:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What's the atmosphere like at fan conventions
Message-ID: <20040301231146.35986.qmail@web40018.mail.yahoo.com>

1March04
 
Hi Folks,
 
I asked a question along these lines the other day and nobody responded, so will try again.  What's the atmosphere like at conventions these days?  I've lived on the other side of the world from the US and Canada for many years and haven't been to a con for many years.  I remember the few I went to in the States were pretty *serious* affairs.  People moved around in a very orderly fashion from event, to event, to marketplace without much *esprit de corps*.  Has the web changed all this?  Many of us already have a sort of *report* with each other thanks to High Tech, so was just wondering if the seriousness is still there.  What was Nimbus like?
 
Come on somebody--a little attention, please.
 
~Paula Gaon



Please visit

Beautiful and Fun Things: 

See the Magical Creatures at:

http://www.cafeshops.com/bft/254718

    "...Weeping may endure for a night, but joy comes in the morning."









---------------------------------
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Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From heidilist at tandys.org  Mon Mar  1 23:42:04 2004
From: heidilist at tandys.org (heiditandy)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 23:42:04 -0000
Subject: What's the atmosphere like at fan conventions
In-Reply-To: <20040301231146.35986.qmail@web40018.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c20hoc+gfk9@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Paula Gaon <paulag5777 at y...> 
wrote:
>  
> I asked a question along these lines the other day and nobody 
responded, so will try again.  

Paula, are you very sure that the Dark Lord Yahoomort didn't eat 
your post? I just did a quicksearch using the Occasionally Pathetic 
Yahoo Search Engine and only saw one post from you on Saturday, and 
nothing else since November. Just a thought...

> What's the atmosphere like at conventions these days?  I've lived 
on the other side of the world from the US and Canada for many years 
and haven't been to a con for many years.  I remember the few I went 
to in the States were pretty *serious* affairs.  People moved around 
in a very orderly fashion from event, to event, to marketplace 
without much *esprit de corps*.  Has the web changed all this?  Many 
of us already have a sort of *report* with each other thanks to High 
Tech, so was just wondering if the seriousness is still there.  What 
was Nimbus like?<

Well, Nimbus wasn't a fancon, technically and in practice. While 
there were certain "fan" elements, like the movie and the 
exhibitors' room, we had a lot of academics among the presenters and 
attendees, and we didn't have anyone from the above-the-title side 
of the film in attendence. 

If you want to read a lot of semicontemporaneous accounts from 
Nimbus, look here: 
http://www.livejournal.com/community/hporlando/6895.html - and I am 
sure I could find some LJ postings about the various autograph-
events in Milton Keynes that have taken place in the UK, which are 
much closer to the fancon setup, in terms of movie showings & 
autograph sessions. 


Heidi
Follow me to FictionAlle.org - fanfics of all shapes, sizes & SHIPs
Art + Book Discussion + Writing Tutorials, too!




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Tue Mar  2 01:36:54 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 01:36:54 -0000
Subject: What's the atmosphere like at fan conventions
In-Reply-To: <c20hoc+gfk9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c20ofm+s586@eGroups.com>

Paula:

> > What's the atmosphere like at conventions these days?  I've 
lived 
> on the other side of the world from the US and Canada for many 
years 
> and haven't been to a con for many years.  I remember the few I 
went 
> to in the States were pretty *serious* affairs.  People moved 
around 
> in a very orderly fashion from event, to event, to marketplace 
> without much *esprit de corps*.  Has the web changed all this?  
Many 
> of us already have a sort of *report* with each other thanks to 
High 
> Tech, so was just wondering if the seriousness is still there.  
What 
> was Nimbus like?

Heidi:

> Well, Nimbus wasn't a fancon, technically and in practice. While 
> there were certain "fan" elements, like the movie and the 
> exhibitors' room, we had a lot of academics among the presenters 
and 
> attendees, and we didn't have anyone from the above-the-title side 
> of the film in attendence. 

LOL!  

I did get the impression that people did enjoy it, though ;-)

David, always willing to mix with people from the wrong side of the 
title




From coriolan at worldnet.att.net  Wed Mar  3 02:59:35 2004
From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 02:59:35 -0000
Subject: Gollum Takes the Gold
Message-ID: <c23hmn+mc7t@eGroups.com>

Here's a cute cartoon celebrating LOTR's Oscar victory

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD%
2FMGArticle%2FRTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031774006142&path=%
21editorials%21cartoons&s=1045855934997

The URL is likely too preposterously long to register as an effective 
link, but just copy it and paste it into your "address".

    - CMC




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Mar  3 08:16:55 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 08:16:55 -0000
Subject: Gollum Takes the Gold
In-Reply-To: <c23hmn+mc7t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2449n+pk0f@eGroups.com>

Caius Marcius wrote:

> Here's a cute cartoon celebrating LOTR's Oscar victory
> 
> http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD%
> 2FMGArticle%2FRTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031774006142&path=%
> 21editorials%21cartoons&s=1045855934997
> 
> The URL is likely too preposterously long to register as an 
effective 
> link, but just copy it and paste it into your "address".

Or try http://tinyurl.com/34twu

David




From marcelocordova2004 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  3 04:44:25 2004
From: marcelocordova2004 at yahoo.com (marcelocordova2004)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 04:44:25 -0000
Subject: Urgent email opinions request from journalist in Chile (about Potter adult fans)
Message-ID: <c23nr9+disd@eGroups.com>

Hi:

My name is Marcelo Cordova and Im a journalist from La Tercera
newspaper in Chile, South America (www.tercera.cl). I work in the
Trends section and I send this message because Im writing an article
for this friday (march 5th) about the phenomenon of adult fans of
the Harry Potter saga. This because the last book was just released
here and is already sold out!. Many people who bought it were grownups
and we would like to get some comments about this trend around the
globe.

If any of you have some time could answer these questions? You can
post your opinions directly here or send them to
marcelocordova2004 at yahoo.com. Please put your name (or a nick if you
want), age, occupation and country. Many thanks in advance:

1. In an article published by The Orlando Sentinel about Nimbus
2003, it says that individuals on that event were "college professors
and college students, advertising copywriters and unemployed computer
consultants, substitute teachers and wanna-be teachers. They've come
from California and New York, Australia and England. Above all else,
they are Harry Potter fans. And they are adults". First of all:
Could you tell me how did you get fascinated by the saga of this small
kid? And how could you explain that many adults feel fascinated by a
book with a kid as a protagonist? From that point of view: Do you
agree with miss Rowling when she says that "it is my sense of humour
in the books, not what I think children will find funny, and I suppose
that would explain some of the appeal to adults"?

2. From that point of view: Which are the elements of the books that
you feel as most appealing to you? Stories, characters? Do you think
that this is a good read for any adult? You think no one should feel
ashamed of reading these "child" books?

3. Bloomsbury spokeswoman Lucy Chapman said in an article from BBC
that she "thinks that adults can find another level in the Potter
books". She said that people can read "into the mythology that runs
through the novels, they pick up on more, such as the Latin school
mottos." Do you think that is a key for success between adults? From
that same point of view: It is possible to think, like mister Joel
Rickett - news editor of the Bookseller website- says, that the "Harry
Potter phenomenon also coincided with a time when it became
fashionable for adults to indulge in children's activities, such as
computer games"?.

4. Mister Rickett also says that the aura surrounding the author as
a factor in Harry Potter's appeal to an adult audience. "The books are
the product of one person which gives them an air of authenticity.
The romantic image of a single mother writing stories in a caf? is
appealing.", he says. What do you think about that?

5. "Families were going into bookshops and buying up multiple copies
on the first day of sale. Adults could not wait for the paperback
grown-up version to come out," said a Bloomsbury spokesperson. Have
you gone to midnight sales and waited for the books like hundreds of
kids? Do you remember any story or anecdote about those events or
about being an adult fan of Potter? Have you gone with your family
to buy the books?

6. In the Order of Phoenix Harry is much more mature than in the
first one. How do you react on this progressive growing process? You
think this could make him loose some appeal?

Thank you very much for your cooperation and sorry if I used some of
your time with these questions.

Marcelo Cordova
La Tercera (www.tercera.cl)
Phone: 56-2-5507664
Fax: 56-2-5507999





From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Wed Mar  3 11:10:21 2004
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 22:10:21 +1100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Urgent email opinions request from journalist in Chile (about Potter adult fans)
In-Reply-To: <c23nr9+disd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <404657CD.27700.10B78B4@localhost>

On 3 Mar 2004 at 4:44, marcelocordova2004 wrote:

> Hi:
> 
> My name is Marcelo Cordova and Im a journalist from La Tercera
> newspaper in Chile, South America (www.tercera.cl). I work in the
> Trends section and I send this message because Im writing an article
> for this friday (march 5th) about the phenomenon of adult fans of
> the Harry Potter saga. This because the last book was just released
> here and is already sold out!. Many people who bought it were grownups
> and we would like to get some comments about this trend around the
> globe.
> 
> If any of you have some time could answer these questions? You can
> post your opinions directly here or send them to
> marcelocordova2004 at yahoo.com. Please put your name (or a nick if you
> want), age, occupation and country. Many thanks in advance:
> 
> 1. In an article published by The Orlando Sentinel about Nimbus
> 2003, it says that individuals on that event were "college professors
> and college students, advertising copywriters and unemployed computer
> consultants, substitute teachers and wanna-be teachers. They've come
> from California and New York, Australia and England. Above all else,
> they are Harry Potter fans. And they are adults". First of all:
> Could you tell me how did you get fascinated by the saga of this small
> kid? And how could you explain that many adults feel fascinated by a
> book with a kid as a protagonist? From that point of view: Do you
> agree with miss Rowling when she says that "it is my sense of humour
> in the books, not what I think children will find funny, and I suppose
> that would explain some of the appeal to adults"?

Shaun Hately, 29, Student Teacher, Australia.

Answering this question... I do voluntary work with gifted children 
- and when I first encountered the Harry Potter being discussed, it 
was specifically within the gifted community - I think the books 
caught on there a little earlier than they caught on in the general 
population. The book was being described as being of far higher 
quality than most children's fiction, and having a clearly gifted 
major character (Hermione). Gifted children also commonly have an 
experience of not fitting in with those around them, because they 
are not like other kids and often find great joy when they discover 
others like them - so Harry's story resonated with these children 
as well.

I read the first book basically to see what people were talking 
about - and immediately, as a former gifted child myself, I found 
myself being sucked in in the same way things had been described to 
me. I could really relate to Harry - my own childhood experiences 
of never quite fitting in, and then finally finding a school where 
I did fit in, and could be happy, really resonated. Hermione was 
great as well - seeing a bright child in a book who was a fully 
developed character, not just a caricature of the smart child - 
that impressed as well.

The books were also more subtle than most children's books I've 
read. I do read children's books. I do watch children's TV and 
movies. It fascinates and interests me - and these books were more 
detailed, and required more intelligence than many children's 
books. Kids had to understand quite sophisticated concepts - 
history and mythology as well - to get everything out of the books. 
But could still enjoy them even if they didn't have that knowledge 
yet - in which case it could encourage them to learn more.

The books also didn't pull punches and treat children as 
unsophisticated people who needed a happy ending. There is moral 
ambiguity in the books. And there is evil. Too many kids books 
sugar coat the world - or go too far the other way and make it too 
bleak. J.K. Rowlings acknowledges things like evil, pain, 
suffering, and death - but there is always hope as well.
> 
> 2. From that point of view: Which are the elements of the books that
> you feel as most appealing to you? Stories, characters? Do you think
> that this is a good read for any adult? You think no one should feel
> ashamed of reading these "child" books?

Definitely not.

The Harry Potter books aren't great literature in my opinion - but 
they are certainly good enough to earn adult respect. These aren't 
really childrens books in my opinion. They are novels with children 
as protagonists, and which children can read. But first and 
foremost, they are novels.
 
> 3. Bloomsbury spokeswoman Lucy Chapman said in an article from BBC
> that she "thinks that adults can find another level in the Potter
> books". She said that people can read "into the mythology that runs
> through the novels, they pick up on more, such as the Latin school
> mottos." Do you think that is a key for success between adults? From
> that same point of view: It is possible to think, like mister Joel
> Rickett - news editor of the Bookseller website- says, that the "Harry
> Potter phenomenon also coincided with a time when it became
> fashionable for adults to indulge in children's activities, such as
> computer games"?.

I think Chapman is right - although I think many children pick up 
on many of these levels as well. There is a lot of subtext, the 
books can be read simply as stories, but there is so much more 
there.

As for Rickett - he might be right. I've always indulged in 
children's activities as an adult - in many cases, more than I did 
as a child. I'm not sure if it's more fashionable or not.
 
> 4. Mister Rickett also says that the aura surrounding the author as
> a factor in Harry Potter's appeal to an adult audience. "The books are
> the product of one person which gives them an air of authenticity.
> The romantic image of a single mother writing stories in a caf? is
> appealing.", he says. What do you think about that?

It is appealing, yes... it's a success story and that does have an 
appeal. But I don't know how major it is. I started reading these 
books before I had a clue who J.K. Rowling was.

> 5. "Families were going into bookshops and buying up multiple copies
> on the first day of sale. Adults could not wait for the paperback
> grown-up version to come out," said a Bloomsbury spokesperson. Have
> you gone to midnight sales and waited for the books like hundreds of
> kids? Do you remember any story or anecdote about those events or
> about being an adult fan of Potter? Have you gone with your family
> to buy the books?

Well, here in Australia, we haven't really had the midnight sale 
phenomena - Order of the Phoenix went on sale here at 9am - and I 
was in a queue of several hundred people who'd preordered. I don't 
think I would have done it at midnight personally though. Previous 
books were released here some time after their UK release.

I do remember with Goblet of Fire, it wound up being released here 
a couple of days before it was meant to be - I believe the local 
bookshops set their own date for that one, agreeing to a 
simultaneous release based on when they expected the books to be 
available - as it was, the books became available a few days early 
and the bookshops all agreed to release.

So I came out of work and suddenly saw Goblet of Fire in a shop 
window as I headed to my train - two or three days before I 
expected it to be available. This was a small science fiction 
bookshop, I thought it might have released by mistake. I had enough 
cash on me to buy two copies - I intended to give one to a friend 
who I knew was also hanging out for it.

I got on the train and started reading. After I was about ten pages 
into it - two stations from my starting point, I could hear or feel 
a presence opposite me. I looked up and there was a boy of about 10 
or 11, sitting with his mother and he was STARING at the book 
cover. Eyes wide, mouth open - he knew the release date wasn't for 
a couple of days either. I think he'd nudged his mother, and that's 
what had attracted my attention.

She asked me where I had got the book and I told her the name of 
the bookshop. He wanted her to get off the train and go back and 
get a copy - mum seemed to be not totally in favour of this idea - 
the kid wanted it though.

I reached into my briefcase and pulled out the second copy and gave 
it to him. His mother insisted on paying for it - but I would have 
given it to him anyway. He was just so eager - and cute. I mean - 
mouth hanging open, eyes as wide as soup plates...
 
> 6. In the Order of Phoenix Harry is much more mature than in the
> first one. How do you react on this progressive growing process? You
> think this could make him loose some appeal?

Maybe to some kids - personally I think it's realistic, although 
personally I didn't like the new Harry at first - he needed a 
serious attitude adjustment. I'm in favour of him growing.


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From sophierom at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  3 13:44:43 2004
From: sophierom at yahoo.com (sophierom)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:44:43 -0000
Subject: Urgent email opinions request from journalist in Chile (about Potter adult fans)
In-Reply-To: <c23nr9+disd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c24ngb+80tv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "marcelocordova2004" 
<marcelocordova2004 at y...> wrote:
> Hi:
> 
> My name is Marcelo Cordova and Im a journalist from La Tercera
> newspaper in Chile, South America (www.tercera.cl). I work in the
> Trends section and I send this message because Im writing an 
article
> for this friday (march 5th) about the phenomenon of adult fans of
> the Harry Potter saga. This because the last book was just released
> here and is already sold out!. Many people who bought it were 
grownups
> and we would like to get some comments about this trend around the
> globe.
> 
> If any of you have some time could answer these questions? You can
> post your opinions directly here or send them to
> marcelocordova2004 at y... Please put your name (or a nick if you
> want), age, occupation and country. Many thanks in advance:

Hi, I'm Sophie, a 26 year old Ph.D. candidate from the U.S.  

> 1. In an article published by The Orlando Sentinel about Nimbus
> 2003, it says that individuals on that event were "college 
professors
> and college students, advertising copywriters and unemployed 
computer
> consultants, substitute teachers and wanna-be teachers. They've 
come
> from California and New York, Australia and England. Above all 
else,
> they are Harry Potter fans. And they are adults". First of all:
> Could you tell me how did you get fascinated by the saga of this 
small
> kid? And how could you explain that many adults feel fascinated by 
a
> book with a kid as a protagonist? From that point of view: Do you
> agree with miss Rowling when she says that "it is my sense of 
humour
> in the books, not what I think children will find funny, and I 
suppose
> that would explain some of the appeal to adults"?

While I certainly think Rowling's sense of humor helps connect 
adults to these stories, I think it has more to do with the fact 
that this is a story about growing up, and that's something we can 
all relate to, no matter how old we are.  So, I see this series less 
as a series for children as a series about growing up, and I think 
that can appeal to just about anyone.  If Harry stayed 11 throughout 
all the books, I would doubtless be less attracted to the series.   


> 2. From that point of view: Which are the elements of the books 
that
> you feel as most appealing to you? Stories, characters? Do you 
think
> that this is a good read for any adult? You think no one should 
feel
> ashamed of reading these "child" books?

I addressed most of this question above. And no, I don't feel anyone 
should be ashamed of reading these books.  Although not the greatest 
literature out there, these books do make me think: about moral 
choices, as well as about the relationship between adults and 
children.  And they're simply fun.  Why it's okay for adults to go 
watch what i would consider "childish movies" (crude comedies, for 
example) but not read books with children as the main characters 
I'll never figure out.  It's thought-provoking entertainment. 



> 3. Bloomsbury spokeswoman Lucy Chapman said in an article from BBC
> that she "thinks that adults can find another level in the Potter
> books". She said that people can read "into the mythology that runs
> through the novels, they pick up on more, such as the Latin school
> mottos." Do you think that is a key for success between adults? 
From
> that same point of view: It is possible to think, like mister Joel
> Rickett - news editor of the Bookseller website- says, that 
the "Harry
> Potter phenomenon also coincided with a time when it became
> fashionable for adults to indulge in children's activities, such as
> computer games"?.

I think both Rickett and Chapman have valid points. I think in 
general that my friends and I (people in our 20s) have fewer hang 
ups about experiencing things outside the categories in which we're 
supposed to fit.  As a young female adult, marketing people think 
I'm supposed to be doing certain things: in my early 20s, I 
was "supposed to be" drinking and partying, buying lots of cute 
clothing; now that I'm in my late 20s, I'm supposed to be settling 
down soon and starting a family.  But I don't fit into those 
marketing categories.  I don't think I like the idea of marketing 
people telling me what I should do and what I should like.  


> 4. Mister Rickett also says that the aura surrounding the author as
> a factor in Harry Potter's appeal to an adult audience. "The books 
are
> the product of one person which gives them an air of authenticity.
> The romantic image of a single mother writing stories in a caf? is
> appealing.", he says. What do you think about that?

I didn't even know this when I started reading the books.  I don't 
think this had much of an impact on me.

> 5. "Families were going into bookshops and buying up multiple 
copies
> on the first day of sale. Adults could not wait for the paperback
> grown-up version to come out," said a Bloomsbury spokesperson. Have
> you gone to midnight sales and waited for the books like hundreds 
of
> kids? Do you remember any story or anecdote about those events or
> about being an adult fan of Potter? Have you gone with your family
> to buy the books?

My husband was actually the first person I knew who started reading 
the books, and initially, I did poke fun at him for reading kids' 
books.  But he convinced me to read the first book, and I was 
enchanted.  There was something quite appealing about the idea of 
discovering a new world; it reminded me of reading C.S. Lewis's 
Narnia series as a child.  I think that's another appeal of the 
Harry Potter series: it coincides with a growing appreciation for 
fanatsy fiction.  But these things alone wouldn't have kept me 
reading the books.  I really did want to find out how Harry would 
grow up, how he would face the problems of being a teenager and a 
young adult.


> 6. In the Order of Phoenix Harry is much more mature than in the
> first one. How do you react on this progressive growing process? 
You
> think this could make him loose some appeal?

Again, I think this is the best part of the series. In each book, 
Harry and his friends are slightly different people. That makes for 
interesting reading, and I can easily relate to the way that a 
person changes as he or she grows older (and continues to change, 
even after childhood).  
> 
> Thank you very much for your cooperation and sorry if I used some 
of
> your time with these questions.
> 
Hey, we like to talk about this stuff. THat's why we're here!

Best,
Sophierom





From marcelocordova2004 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  3 13:17:04 2004
From: marcelocordova2004 at yahoo.com (marcelo cordoba)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 05:17:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Urgent email opinions request from journalist in Chile (about Potter adult fans)
In-Reply-To: <404657CD.27700.10B78B4@localhost>
Message-ID: <20040303131704.8851.qmail@web21411.mail.yahoo.com>

Thank you very much for your help!...I will try to
send a link with the web version of the article or the
page in PDF format!..


--- Shaun Hately <drednort at alphalink.com.au> wrote:
> On 3 Mar 2004 at 4:44, marcelocordova2004 wrote:
> 
> > Hi:
> > 
> > My name is Marcelo Cordova and Im a journalist
> from La Tercera
> > newspaper in Chile, South America
> (www.tercera.cl). I work in the
> > Trends section and I send this message because Im
> writing an article
> > for this friday (march 5th) about the phenomenon
> of adult fans of
> > the Harry Potter saga. This because the last book
> was just released
> > here and is already sold out!. Many people who
> bought it were grownups
> > and we would like to get some comments about this
> trend around the
> > globe.
> > 
> > If any of you have some time could answer these
> questions? You can
> > post your opinions directly here or send them to
> > marcelocordova2004 at yahoo.com. Please put your name
> (or a nick if you
> > want), age, occupation and country. Many thanks in
> advance:
> > 
> > 1. In an article published by The Orlando Sentinel
> about Nimbus
> > 2003, it says that individuals on that event were
> "college professors
> > and college students, advertising copywriters and
> unemployed computer
> > consultants, substitute teachers and wanna-be
> teachers. They've come
> > from California and New York, Australia and
> England. Above all else,
> > they are Harry Potter fans. And they are adults".
> First of all:
> > Could you tell me how did you get fascinated by
> the saga of this small
> > kid? And how could you explain that many adults
> feel fascinated by a
> > book with a kid as a protagonist? From that point
> of view: Do you
> > agree with miss Rowling when she says that "it is
> my sense of humour
> > in the books, not what I think children will find
> funny, and I suppose
> > that would explain some of the appeal to adults"?
> 
> Shaun Hately, 29, Student Teacher, Australia.
> 
> Answering this question... I do voluntary work with
> gifted children 
> - and when I first encountered the Harry Potter
> being discussed, it 
> was specifically within the gifted community - I
> think the books 
> caught on there a little earlier than they caught on
> in the general 
> population. The book was being described as being of
> far higher 
> quality than most children's fiction, and having a
> clearly gifted 
> major character (Hermione). Gifted children also
> commonly have an 
> experience of not fitting in with those around them,
> because they 
> are not like other kids and often find great joy
> when they discover 
> others like them - so Harry's story resonated with
> these children 
> as well.
> 
> I read the first book basically to see what people
> were talking 
> about - and immediately, as a former gifted child
> myself, I found 
> myself being sucked in in the same way things had
> been described to 
> me. I could really relate to Harry - my own
> childhood experiences 
> of never quite fitting in, and then finally finding
> a school where 
> I did fit in, and could be happy, really resonated.
> Hermione was 
> great as well - seeing a bright child in a book who
> was a fully 
> developed character, not just a caricature of the
> smart child - 
> that impressed as well.
> 
> The books were also more subtle than most children's
> books I've 
> read. I do read children's books. I do watch
> children's TV and 
> movies. It fascinates and interests me - and these
> books were more 
> detailed, and required more intelligence than many
> children's 
> books. Kids had to understand quite sophisticated
> concepts - 
> history and mythology as well - to get everything
> out of the books. 
> But could still enjoy them even if they didn't have
> that knowledge 
> yet - in which case it could encourage them to learn
> more.
> 
> The books also didn't pull punches and treat
> children as 
> unsophisticated people who needed a happy ending.
> There is moral 
> ambiguity in the books. And there is evil. Too many
> kids books 
> sugar coat the world - or go too far the other way
> and make it too 
> bleak. J.K. Rowlings acknowledges things like evil,
> pain, 
> suffering, and death - but there is always hope as
> well.
> > 
> > 2. From that point of view: Which are the elements
> of the books that
> > you feel as most appealing to you? Stories,
> characters? Do you think
> > that this is a good read for any adult? You think
> no one should feel
> > ashamed of reading these "child" books?
> 
> Definitely not.
> 
> The Harry Potter books aren't great literature in my
> opinion - but 
> they are certainly good enough to earn adult
> respect. These aren't 
> really childrens books in my opinion. They are
> novels with children 
> as protagonists, and which children can read. But
> first and 
> foremost, they are novels.
>  
> > 3. Bloomsbury spokeswoman Lucy Chapman said in an
> article from BBC
> > that she "thinks that adults can find another
> level in the Potter
> > books". She said that people can read "into the
> mythology that runs
> > through the novels, they pick up on more, such as
> the Latin school
> > mottos." Do you think that is a key for success
> between adults? From
> > that same point of view: It is possible to think,
> like mister Joel
> > Rickett - news editor of the Bookseller website-
> says, that the "Harry
> > Potter phenomenon also coincided with a time when
> it became
> > fashionable for adults to indulge in children's
> activities, such as
> > computer games"?.
> 
> I think Chapman is right - although I think many
> children pick up 
> on many of these levels as well. There is a lot of
> subtext, the 
> books can be read simply as stories, but there is so
> much more 
> there.
> 
> As for Rickett - he might be right. I've always
> indulged in 
> children's activities as an adult - in many cases,
> more than I did 
> as a child. I'm not sure if it's more fashionable or
> not.
>  
> > 4. Mister Rickett also says that the aura
> surrounding the author as
> > a factor in Harry Potter's appeal to an adult
> audience. "The books are
> > the product of one person which gives them an air
> of authenticity.
> > The romantic image of a single mother writing
> stories in a caf is
> > appealing.", he says. What do you think about
> that?
> 
> It is appealing, yes... it's a success story and
> that does have an 
> appeal. But I don't know how major it is. I started
> reading these 
> books before I had a clue who J.K. Rowling was.
> 
> > 5. "Families were going into bookshops and buying
> up multiple copies
> > on the first day of sale. Adults could not wait
> for the paperback
> > grown-up version to come out," said a Bloomsbury
> spokesperson. 
=== message truncated ===


__________________________________
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http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/




From erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  3 16:12:41 2004
From: erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com (Phyllis)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:12:41 -0000
Subject: Convention Alley Guest Speakers
Message-ID: <c2505p+992g@eGroups.com>

The Convention Alley Planning Committee is pleased to announce Steve
Vander Ark and Dr. Judith Robertson as guest speakers for the 2004
Convention Alley conference.

Steve Vander Ark will provide the keynote address at Saturday's
birthday banquet, as well as serve as Master of Ceremonies throughout
the event. Steve is the creator and editor of the Harry Potter
Lexicon website, a comprehensive reference tool on the Potterverse
extensively used by both fans and scholars. Steve is from Grand
Rapids, Michigan (U.S.A.), where he works as a K-8 library media
specialist. He is also a freelance writer and columnist, as well as
the resident director for the Caledonia Community Players.

Dr. Judith Robertson will speak at the Sunday luncheon. Dr.
Robertson is an Associate Professor at the University of Ottawa
(Ontario, Canada), and was recently awarded the Faculty of Education
Prize for Excellence in Teaching. She has published a best-selling
book entitled "Teaching About Genocide and Intolerance," and has
written over twenty articles and chapters that have appeared in peer-
refereed sites in children's literature, English education,
curriculum theory and teacher education.

Convention Alley will be held at the University of Ottawa from July
30 ? August 1, 2004. In addition to presentations by guest speakers,
the conference will feature programming sessions presented by fans
from both the academic and the non-academic worlds, directed
discussion groups and informal opportunities for participants to get
to know one another and to enjoy the city of Ottawa. A highlight of
the convention will be a dinner for all participants to celebrate
Harry's birthday on July 31st.

For more information or to register, please visit:
http://www.conventionalley.org/ .

~Phyllis Morris
for the 2004 Convention Alley Planning Committee





From annemehr at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  3 17:20:58 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:20:58 -0000
Subject: Urgent email opinions request from journalist in Chile (about Potter adult f
In-Reply-To: <c23nr9+disd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2545q+q9c8@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "marcelocordova2004"
<marcelocordova2004 at y...> wrote:
> Hi:
> 
> My name is Marcelo Cordova and Im a journalist from La Tercera
> newspaper in Chile, South America (www.tercera.cl). I work in the
> Trends section and I send this message because Im writing an article
> for this friday (march 5th) about the phenomenon of adult fans of
> the Harry Potter saga. This because the last book was just released
> here and is already sold out!. Many people who bought it were grownups
> and we would like to get some comments about this trend around the
> globe.
> 
> If any of you have some time could answer these questions? You can
> post your opinions directly here or send them to
> marcelocordova2004 at y... Please put your name (or a nick if you
> want), age, occupation and country. Many thanks in advance:

Anne, age 43, at-home Mom, USA.
> 
> 1. In an article published by The Orlando Sentinel about Nimbus
> 2003, it says that individuals on that event were "college professors
> and college students, advertising copywriters and unemployed computer
> consultants, substitute teachers and wanna-be teachers. They've come
> from California and New York, Australia and England. Above all else,
> they are Harry Potter fans. And they are adults". First of all:
> Could you tell me how did you get fascinated by the saga of this small
> kid? And how could you explain that many adults feel fascinated by a
> book with a kid as a protagonist? From that point of view: Do you
> agree with miss Rowling when she says that "it is my sense of humour
> in the books, not what I think children will find funny, and I suppose
> that would explain some of the appeal to adults"?

I am in the habit of sometimes picking up a book my kids are reading,
so I picked up HP and the Sorcerer's Stone.  I was fascinated right
away.  I remember what it was like to be a kid, so I easily identified
with Harry; I don't know why an adult wouldn't like to read about a
child protagonist as long as the characterisation was believable. 
Even though Harry does not always act the way I would have acted, I
still find his actions believable for him.

I do like Rowling's sense of humor.  There are plenty of things that
both children and adults can find funny.  There are also plenty of
jokes in the book that I "got" and my kids missed completely.
 
> 
> 2. From that point of view: Which are the elements of the books that
> you feel as most appealing to you? Stories, characters? Do you think
> that this is a good read for any adult? You think no one should feel
> ashamed of reading these "child" books?

There is so much that appeals to me: story, characters, and themes.  I
also love how the Wizarding World is portrayed as being *just* out of
our range of vision.  The imagination put into all the names tickles
me, too.

I do think this is a good read for any adult as long as it's to their
taste.  There's nothing that *everybody* is going to like, after all.
 No, I don't think adults should feel ashamed of reading these books,
as if they are wasting their time on them.  I personally get more than
mere entertainment from them, and I also find that I get more out of
them than my children do (ages 9, 11, and 13).

> 
> 3. Bloomsbury spokeswoman Lucy Chapman said in an article from BBC
> that she "thinks that adults can find another level in the Potter
> books". She said that people can read "into the mythology that runs
> through the novels, they pick up on more, such as the Latin school
> mottos." Do you think that is a key for success between adults? From
> that same point of view: It is possible to think, like mister Joel
> Rickett - news editor of the Bookseller website- says, that the "Harry
> Potter phenomenon also coincided with a time when it became
> fashionable for adults to indulge in children's activities, such as
> computer games"?.

I agree with Lucy Chapman.  I would take it farther than what's quoted
here, though, and extend it to adults also picking up on more of the
themes and character relationships, etc.  As for Rickett, I don't
know.  Didn't Bloomsbury put out "adult" covers because adults were
hiding their HP books?  So that sounds like a contradiction.

> 
> 4. Mister Rickett also says that the aura surrounding the author as
> a factor in Harry Potter's appeal to an adult audience. "The books are
> the product of one person which gives them an air of authenticity.
> The romantic image of a single mother writing stories in a caf? is
> appealing.", he says. What do you think about that?

I had read the first four books before I ever knew about Rowling's
relatively short stint in poverty.  Actually, I think I'd read two of
them before I even knew she was a woman.  I have to think that a lot
of adults began reading them because they picked up their kids' books,
or their kids told them to, or heard the word of mouth about how good
they were.  Apparently, many adults got curious after taking their
kids to a Harry Potter movie.  Then once they'd read a bit, many of
the adults were "hooked."  I can't imagine the "writing in a cafe"
thing has much to do with it.

> 
> 5. "Families were going into bookshops and buying up multiple copies
> on the first day of sale. Adults could not wait for the paperback
> grown-up version to come out," said a Bloomsbury spokesperson. Have
> you gone to midnight sales and waited for the books like hundreds of
> kids? Do you remember any story or anecdote about those events or
> about being an adult fan of Potter? Have you gone with your family
> to buy the books?

I went to the midnight release of Order of the Phoenix, just for fun,
because I'd never done anything like that before.  I had all my kids
with me.  I don't know whether I'll do it again or not -- if my kids
want me to, I'll take them.  Otherwise, I'll probably have them
delivered from Amazon on release day.

I do know other adult fans of Harry in my neighborhood, but though
they like to read the books, they don't discuss them much.  I get all
my HP discussion on the internet.  So, sorry, no interesting anecdotes!

> 
> 6. In the Order of Phoenix Harry is much more mature than in the
> first one. How do you react on this progressive growing process? You
> think this could make him loose some appeal?

This is one of my very favorite things about the series.  As Harry
grows, his point of view matures, and things become richer and more
complicated.  For instance, I love watching how the balance of power
changes between Harry and the Dursleys.  At first, Harry is completely
under their collective thumb.   Gradually, as Harry matures, and with
the help of the wizards who care for him, he gains more and more of
the power.  Once Harry has his birthday in the beginning of the
seventh book he will be "of age" and all the power will lie with him
-- I can hardly wait!  And this is just one tiny aspect of Harry's growth.

I think Harry's maturation gains him more appeal than it loses.  It is
true that a young child who starts with the first several books may
have to grow up a bit before being able to really understand the later
ones.  I don't see that as a problem at all -- that child will just
have something good to read when he's older.

Actually, I don't care how much "appeal" (as in popularity) the Harry
Potter books have, just as long as they are good books.  So far, I
have to say that they are *very* good books.

> 
> Thank you very much for your cooperation and sorry if I used some of
> your time with these questions.

It was a pleasure!  Good luck with your article!  Now I'm going to go
read the other responses...

Anne
> 
> Marcelo Cordova
> La Tercera (www.tercera.cl)
> Phone: 56-2-5507664
> Fax: 56-2-5507999




From coolbeans3131 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  3 19:18:10 2004
From: coolbeans3131 at yahoo.com (coolbeans3131)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 19:18:10 -0000
Subject: Ask JK
Message-ID: <c25b1i+pm1v@eGroups.com>

http://www.nwemail.co.uk/viewarticle.asp?id=78054

"The question Victoria High pupils will be posing to millionaire Ms 
Rowling is: "Do you realise Harry & co sit on their broomsticks 
backwards and that you can't balance like that?""

What a freakin waste of a question!  Is there any hope the other 9 
won't suck too?

Joj 




From bboy_mn at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  3 21:19:44 2004
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:19:44 -0000
Subject: Ask JK -Backward Brooms .... say what?
In-Reply-To: <c25b1i+pm1v@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c25i5g+csnu@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "coolbeans3131"
<coolbeans3131 at y...> wrote:
> http://www.nwemail.co.uk/viewarticle.asp?id=78054
> 
> "The question Victoria High pupils will be posing to millionaire Ms 
> Rowling is: "Do you realise Harry & co sit on their broomsticks 
> backwards and that you can't balance like that?""
> 
> What a freakin waste of a question!  Is there any hope the other 9 
> won't suck too?
> 
> Joj

bboy_mn:

Well, they can ask any question they want, but I have to ask, what the
sam-hill does that question even mean? 

Who's to say they sit on the broomsticks backwards? By what standard
is that determined? I've never in my life seen a witch on a broom that
didn't fit my mental image of how Harry & Co ride their brooms. And,
given that we have nothing but mental images to go by, how do they
know which way Harry faces on his broom. And finally, how would the
direction you face affect your balance in any way? Facing the handle
or facing the sweep, I really don't see the difference.

I whole heartedly agree, what a waste of a question. 

I can't prove it, but I suspect this is a question pushed by a teacher
more than by the students. 

Let's remember too, that these are UK students and that the UK version
of the books don't have any illustrations in them. 

Just a few sad thoughts.

bboy_mn





From starling823 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  3 21:20:43 2004
From: starling823 at yahoo.com (Sternel)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:20:43 -0000
Subject: Urgent email opinions request from journalist in Chile (about Potter adult fans)
In-Reply-To: <c23nr9+disd@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c25i7b+og05@eGroups.com>

> 1. In an article published by The Orlando Sentinel about Nimbus
> 2003, it says that individuals on that event were "college 
professors
> and college students, advertising copywriters and unemployed 
computer
> consultants, substitute teachers and wanna-be teachers. They've come
> from California and New York, Australia and England. Above all else,
> they are Harry Potter fans. And they are adults". First of all:
> Could you tell me how did you get fascinated by the saga of this 
small
> kid? And how could you explain that many adults feel fascinated by a
> book with a kid as a protagonist? From that point of view: Do you
> agree with miss Rowling when she says that "it is my sense of humour
> in the books, not what I think children will find funny, and I 
suppose
> that would explain some of the appeal to adults"?

I first read Harry Potter after a boyfriend recommended them to me, 
and I fell in love with them instantly. I really can't explain why 
they enraptured me so much.  I think despite the protagonist being a 
child, all the characters are well-depicted -- adults as well as 
children, all seen through Harry's eyes. I think what we are reacting 
to is this story of someone trying to make sense of the world around 
him; that's something we all have experienced, and we all understand.
 I agree with Rowling's statement; there is a definate sense of humor 
running throughout these books that make reading them enjoyable.  If 
not for that tongue-in-cheek quality, people wouldn't want to return 
to them.  


> 
> 2. From that point of view: Which are the elements of the books that
> you feel as most appealing to you? Stories, characters? Do you think
> that this is a good read for any adult? You think no one should feel
> ashamed of reading these "child" books?

The characters are what keeps me reading; they are multilayered and 
rich, and we discover new things about them in every book.  JKR's 
characterizations are one of the strongest aspects of Harry Potter.  
I don't think one should be ashamed of reading a 'child's' book as an 
adult -- if it's good enough for you as a child, what should that 
change as an adult?  A good story is a good story, and if it's 
written on a level children can understand but with depth that adults 
can appreciate, it allows a wider audience to appreciate it, both 
seperately and together. 


> 3. Bloomsbury spokeswoman Lucy Chapman said in an article from BBC
> that she "thinks that adults can find another level in the Potter
> books". She said that people can read "into the mythology that runs
> through the novels, they pick up on more, such as the Latin school
> mottos." Do you think that is a key for success between adults? From
> that same point of view: It is possible to think, like mister Joel
> Rickett - news editor of the Bookseller website- says, that 
the "Harry
> Potter phenomenon also coincided with a time when it became
> fashionable for adults to indulge in children's activities, such as
> computer games"?.

The word games and puns, the references to history, the mythological 
background are all terrific aspects and has actually increased my 
education -- my Latin has gotten more use since I stopped studying it 
in school, I have begun to pursue mythology outside of the Greco 
Roman myths I learned as a child, and have learned a great deal of 
comparative religion as I read about the responses of various 
organized religions to the series.  

> 
> 4. Mister Rickett also says that the aura surrounding the author as
> a factor in Harry Potter's appeal to an adult audience. "The books 
are
> the product of one person which gives them an air of authenticity.
> The romantic image of a single mother writing stories in a caf? is
> appealing.", he says. What do you think about that?

I knew nothing about Rowling when I first read the books.  I did not 
learn of her background until after I had sought out the first three 
volumes, so that statement isn't valid at all in my case.

> 
> 5. "Families were going into bookshops and buying up multiple copies
> on the first day of sale. Adults could not wait for the paperback
> grown-up version to come out," said a Bloomsbury spokesperson. Have
> you gone to midnight sales and waited for the books like hundreds of
> kids? Do you remember any story or anecdote about those events or
> about being an adult fan of Potter? Have you gone with your family
> to buy the books?

I waited with friends on line at the Toys'R'Us in Times Square for 
the release of Order of the Phoenix.  We were able to hear Jim Dale, 
the narrator of the audiobooks, do a reading and had our books by 
12:30 am.  We went in costumes, and had a great time -- it made that 
last bit of waiting enjoyable rather than a chore.  I hope we're able 
to repeat the experience for the next book.

> 
> 6. In the Order of Phoenix Harry is much more mature than in the
> first one. How do you react on this progressive growing process? You
> think this could make him loose some appeal?

I'm very glad JKR is writing him this way.  Part of what I love about 
her characterization of Harry is the realistic nature of it.  If she 
hadn't matured Harry that realism would be lost and the story would 
ring false to me.  

Sternel (Abigail) age 23
Long Island, New York.





From heidilist at tandys.org  Wed Mar  3 21:37:21 2004
From: heidilist at tandys.org (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:37:21 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Ask JK -Backward Brooms .... say what?
In-Reply-To: <c25i5g+csnu@eGroups.com>
References: <c25i5g+csnu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1078349845.2FEA6FC2@r5.dngr.org>


> <coolbeans3131 at y...> wrote:
>>  http://www.nwemail.co.uk/viewarticle.asp?id=78054
>>
>>  "The question Victoria High pupils will be posing to millionaire Ms
>>  Rowling is: "Do you realise Harry & co sit on their broomsticks
>>  backwards and that you can't balance like that?""
>>
>>  What a freakin waste of a question!  Is there any hope the other 9
>>  won't suck too?
>>

It's especially stupid as there's a diagram in qtta showing the 
cushioning charm on a broom, which I think explains the balance issue. 
And I assume the backwards thing relates to that witch who got some 
publicity a few years back saying they were riding them backwards.

WhatEVER. Sigh.

Heidi

>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin 
> Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from 
> posts to which you're replying!
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>



From macloudt at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar  3 22:06:08 2004
From: macloudt at yahoo.co.uk (Mary Ann)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 22:06:08 -0000
Subject: Ask JK -Backward Brooms .... say what?
In-Reply-To: <1078349845.2FEA6FC2@r5.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <c25ksg+rg5h@eGroups.com>

Heidi wrote:

> > <coolbeans3131 at y...> wrote:
> >>  http://www.nwemail.co.uk/viewarticle.asp?id=78054
> >>
> >>  "The question Victoria High pupils will be posing to 
millionaire Ms
> >>  Rowling is: "Do you realise Harry & co sit on their broomsticks
> >>  backwards and that you can't balance like that?""
> >>
> >>  What a freakin waste of a question!  Is there any hope the 
other 9
> >>  won't suck too?

> It's especially stupid as there's a diagram in qtta showing the 
> cushioning charm on a broom, which I think explains the balance 
issue. 
> And I assume the backwards thing relates to that witch who got 
some 
> publicity a few years back saying they were riding them backwards.
> 
> WhatEVER. Sigh.

Ah, so I *do* remember a witch saying just such a thing. <vbg>  I 
can remember watching a program which mentioned this fact and had an 
interview with probably the same witch Heidi mentioned, and it also 
showed a carving on the side of a very old church pew (of all 
places) of a witch riding her broomstick bristles-forward.

That being said, it's *fantasy*, for crying out loud!  If someone is 
all wound up about the folk in the Wizarding World riding their 
brooms in an unaerodynamical fashion then perhaps it's time for that 
person to have a brandy and a lie-down.

Mary Ann
(who could do with a brandy and a lie-down herself, albeit for 
different reasons)




From bboy_mn at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  3 23:04:13 2004
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:04:13 -0000
Subject: Eerie's Witch's Brew
Message-ID: <c25o9d+2ns0@eGroups.com>

Found this on the internet when I was researching mixed drinks.
Thought someone might be able to use it.

http://www.webtender.com/db/drink/3099

Ingredients:

    * 4 cups Cranberry juice cocktail
    * 1 cup chopped & candied Ginger
    * 3 Orange
    * 12 oz frozen Apple juice concentrate
    * 6 oz frozen Limeade concentrate
    * 2 cups seedless Grapes
    * 4 cups Water
    * 1/2 gal Ginger ale 

Mixing instructions:

In a 1 to 2 quart pan, bring 1 cup of cranberry juice and candied
ginger to a boil over high heat. Boil, uncovered, about 2 minutes, set
aside. With a vegetable peeler, pare peel (colored part only) from
oranges: cut peel into thin 2 in long worms: or use an Oriental
shredder to make long shreds. Add orange peel to cranberry mixture.
Cover and chill at least 4 hours or as long as overnight. Juice
oranges: put juice in a 6 to 8 quart pan or heavy bowl. Stir in
cranberry-ginger mixture, the 3 cups cranberry juice, apple
concentrate, limeade, grapes and water. If made ahead, cover and chill
up to 2 hours. Add ginger ale and about a 1 pound piece of dry ice (DO
NOT put small pieces in punch or cups): ice should smolder at least 30
minutes. Ladle into cups. Add any remaining ice when bubbling ceases.
Creator/contributor's comments:

A SERIOUS CAUTION: never touch dry ice: use tongs to handle.

Just a thought.

bboy_mn





From bboy_mn at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  3 23:09:14 2004
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:09:14 -0000
Subject: Found Another One - Warm Witch's Blood
Message-ID: <c25oiq+9ts7@eGroups.com>

Should have waited, 10 seconds after I posted the previous recipe, I
found another one. Note; these are real.

http://www.webtender.com/db/drink/3100

Warm Witch's Blood
Ingredients:

    * 4 cups Apple-cranberry juice
    * 2 cups Orange juice
    * 1 tsp whole Cloves
    * 1 stick Cinnamon
    * 3-4 Allspice berries
    * 1-2 tblsp Sugar to taste 

Mixing instructions:

Bring to a boil in a saucepan and reduce heat to simmer. Simmer gently
for 15 minutes, stirring and muttering appropriate incantations. Serve
in ghoulish glasses, garnish with an orange slice if desired.
Creator/contributor's comments:

Make sure it is not tooooo hot when you serve it to the kiddies.

bboy_mn




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Mar  3 23:20:27 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:20:27 -0000
Subject: Eerie's Witch's Brew
In-Reply-To: <c25o9d+2ns0@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c25p7s+8j55@eGroups.com>

Steve wrote:

> Add ginger ale and about a 1 pound piece of dry ice (DO
> NOT put small pieces in punch or cups): ice should smolder at 
least 30
> minutes. Ladle into cups. Add any remaining ice when bubbling 
ceases.
> Creator/contributor's comments:
> 
> A SERIOUS CAUTION: never touch dry ice: use tongs to handle.

Dry ice?  I'm notorious for just not seeing things in front of my 
face, but I didn't think one could just buy dry ice in shops.  How 
do you get it?  How do you keep it?

David




From jenP_97 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  4 04:27:33 2004
From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 04:27:33 -0000
Subject: Eerie's Witch's Brew
In-Reply-To: <c25p7s+8j55@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c26b7l+qo3d@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "davewitley"
<dfrankiswork at n...> wrote:
> Steve wrote:
> 
> > Add ginger ale and about a 1 pound piece of dry ice (DO
> > NOT put small pieces in punch or cups): ice should smolder at 
> least 30
> > minutes. Ladle into cups. Add any remaining ice when bubbling 
> ceases.
> > Creator/contributor's comments:
> > 
> > A SERIOUS CAUTION: never touch dry ice: use tongs to handle.
> 
> Dry ice?  I'm notorious for just not seeing things in front of my 
> face, but I didn't think one could just buy dry ice in shops.  How 
> do you get it?  How do you keep it?
> 
> David

Well, I'm not sure how it works in the UK, but personally, I have a
large supermarket in my area that will sell me dry ice.  All I do is
go in the day I want to use it, buy a 5lb chunk, they put it in a few
paper bags for me (since it doesn't "melt", it "sublimes" - per my
husband the chemistry teacher), and I drive it home.  If you don't use
it right away, it'll get a little smaller, but it'll probably last you
a long time, depending on how big your chunk is.

So... maybe call a few markets/delis/fish markets and ask if they'll
sell you some?

-Jen




From stanleys at sbcglobal.net  Thu Mar  4 05:16:07 2004
From: stanleys at sbcglobal.net (suehpfan)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 05:16:07 -0000
Subject: Ask JK -Backward Brooms .... say what?
In-Reply-To: <c25ksg+rg5h@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c26e2n+22n2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Mary Ann" <macloudt at y...> 
wrote:
> Heidi wrote:
> 
> > > <coolbeans3131 at y...> wrote:
> > >>  http://www.nwemail.co.uk/viewarticle.asp?id=78054
> > >>
> > >>  "The question Victoria High pupils will be posing to 
> millionaire Ms
> > >>  Rowling is: "Do you realise Harry & co sit on their 
broomsticks
> > >>  backwards and that you can't balance like that?""
> > >>
> > >>  What a freakin waste of a question!  Is there any hope the 
> other 9
> > >>  won't suck too?
> 
> > It's especially stupid as there's a diagram in qtta showing the 
> > cushioning charm on a broom, which I think explains the balance 
> issue. 
> > And I assume the backwards thing relates to that witch who got 
> some 
> > publicity a few years back saying they were riding them backwards.
> > 
> > WhatEVER. Sigh.
> 
> Ah, so I *do* remember a witch saying just such a thing. <vbg>  I 
> can remember watching a program which mentioned this fact and had 
an 
> interview with probably the same witch Heidi mentioned, and it also 
> showed a carving on the side of a very old church pew (of all 
> places) of a witch riding her broomstick bristles-forward.
> 
> That being said, it's *fantasy*, for crying out loud!  If someone 
is 
> all wound up about the folk in the Wizarding World riding their 
> brooms in an unaerodynamical fashion then perhaps it's time for 
that 
> person to have a brandy and a lie-down.
> 
> Mary Ann
> (who could do with a brandy and a lie-down herself, albeit for 
> different reasons)

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one completely disgusted with this 
question.  It seems almost belittling to me, could they possibly be 
wasting the question on purpose?

Sue, who realizes it has been way too long since she was in high 
school to judge.




From erinellii at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  4 09:19:04 2004
From: erinellii at yahoo.com (Erin)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:19:04 -0000
Subject: Almost Chat time!!!! Those questions.
Message-ID: <c26sa8+1kg4@eGroups.com>

Well, here it is,  the World Book Day Online festival. Less than one 
hour until the chat starts.  And in case anyone else is bopping 
around the internet waiting for the start like I am, here is that 
list of questions I promised so long ago, terribly sorry about the 
lateness.

Here is the address for the festival:

http://www.worldbookdayfestival.com/2004/index.html

Apparently all you have to do is click on the picture of Rowling when 
it's time.



**Lupin**

In PoA, Lupin had a bag with Professor R. J. Lupin stamped on it in 
peeling letters.  Where was he a professor before Hogwarts and what 
does his middle initial stand for? 

Where does Lupin live at the end of GoF when Dumbledore tells Sirius 
to "lie low at Lupin's"?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**The Weasleys**

How old are Mr. and Mrs. Weasley?

How old are Bill and Charlie?

Any chance that Arthur Weasley was a victim of the Imperius curse 
during You-Know-Who's first rise to power?

Ron got his leg broken in PoA.  Which leg was it, and does he have a 
scar there now?

How exactly did Scabbers attach himself to young Percy? 

What color are Ron's eyes?

How come Arthur hasn't learned more about Muggles and their lives 
after working in a muggle department for so long?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**Harry's past**

Do the colour of Harry's eyes matter specifically, or is it just the 
fact that Lily and Harry have the "same eyes" that matters?

Where is Godric's Hollow located?

What house (or houses) were James, Sirius, Lupin, and Peter in?

Any chance that Petunia was a squib or that her and Lily's parents,  
Mr. and Mrs. Evans, were squibs?

Does Harry still need to study Occlumency, or is Voldemort now
permanently banished from his mind?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**Dumbledore**

Does Dumbledore actually *like* Cockroach Clusters? 

How did Dumbledore know what made Voldemort stop possessing Harry?

We know you can't apparate into or out of Hogwarts, but we've seen 
Dumbledore send people into and out of his office by portkey and 
arrive by Floo powder himself. Is that a lapse in security or can 
only the headmaster do that?

When Dumbledore conjures the sleeping bags in PoA, has he summoned 
them *from* somewhere, or actually created them?

If Dumbledore thought that Sirius was the Potter's secret keeper, how 
come he was not surprised when Hagrid told him he saw Sirius and 
borrowed his bike? 

- Are we ever going to know about Dumbledore's life before Harry's 
events? If he's about 150 years, there's a lot of story...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**How the WW Works**

Do "evanesco" and "scourgify" make things cease to exist or just go 
somewhere else?

Are the Pensieve's memories totally objective like a video camera?

How do children from Wizarding families learn reading and writing and 
math before they get to Hogwarts?

Why do some people make a loud "crack" when they disapparate, and 
other people make only small "pop"s?

If no one can apparate or disapparate inside Hogwarts, what is it 
that Dobby and Fawkes do when they disappear?

Could Arabella Figg, as a squib, actually see the dementors as she 
said at Harry's hearing, or not?

The Put-Outer is used at the Dursleys' and at Grimmauld Place.  Does 
it confer some sort of magical protection besides the cover of 
darkness for these important hideouts?

We've seen in OoP that portkeys do work inside Hogwarts.  So how come 
Crouch Jr. had to get Harry into the Triwizard Tournament and wait 
for the third task before sending Harry to Voldemort?  Couldn't he 
just have turned anything in the castle into a  Portkey at any time?

Are long fingers a sign of magical power?

What do you call the non-magical offspring of a mixed, Muggle/Magic 
couple? Would they be Muggles or Squibs?


Messenger owls and Thestrals seem impressively fast. Do they travel 
by magic? And if so, how exactly does that magic work?


What is the top speed of the fastest broom?

Why are portkeys so tightly controlled by the Ministry and are they 
dangerous if done improperly?

Are there limits to how far a wizard can be transported by 
apparating, the Floo network, or portkeys? If so, what are the limits?

Why in the world are Hags (who eat children) allowed anywhere near 
Hogwarts, let alone into the town pubs when the students have a 
Hogsmeade Weekend?

What is the difference between a wizard and a warlock?

How are unicorn horns harvested for use in potions-making?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**Other people**

Blaise Zabini: boy or girl?

Will we ever find out who Florence was that the pensieve memory of 
Bertha Jorkins mentioned in the 4th book, or who she was kissing?

Will Mark Evans (the ten-year-old Dudley beat up at the beginning of 
OoP) show up in the next books at all?

Is Andromeda Tonks still alive?

Did Stan Shunpike (from the knight bus) go to Hogwarts?

Who is the Slytherin boy who saw the thestrals?

Whatever happened to Karkaroff? 

Will Harry ever meet Professor Dumbledore's brother, Aberforth?

Will there ever be a "good Slytherin"?

When Hagrid was expelled and became the gamekeeper at Hogwarts, was 
he the gamekeeper immediately at age 13?  Or was he apprenticed to 
the former gamekeeper, Ogg, for a while?  And if so, how long?

Was Minerva McGonagall at school with Tom Riddle?

Did Tom Riddle ever date, or was he too busy learning the Dark Arts?

Why did Voldemort personally kill Dorcas Meadows?

What house was Moaning Myrtle in when she was alive?

I was sad about Sirius, but overall not too impressed with You-Know-
Who in Order of the Phoenix.  Is he going to get scarier in the next 
two books?  (please, please!)

Who is Arabella Figg related to in the wizarding world?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**Other stuff**

Fans have found ways to anagram many of the names currently in Harry 
Potter.  Are there any more names in the series that are intentional 
anagrams of anything beyond the example seen in Chamber of Secrets?

In GoF, did Fudge say "I've heard of a curse scar acting as an alarm 
bell before," as per the British version, or should it have 
been, "I've never heard of a curse scar acting as an alarm bell 
before," as in the American edition?

What's up with all the socks?

Why all the bad teeth?  At last count, Snape, Sirius, and Karkaroff 
all had yellow teeth, and now Hagrid's gotten some teeth knocked out 
by Grawp. Has the wizarding world never heard of dentists?

In CoS, Nearly Headless Nick is celebrating his 500th death day.  But 
in Philosopher's Stone, he tells Harry he hasn't eaten in "nearly 
four hundred years".  Is this a mistake or could he somehow eat for 
one hundred years after he died?

Was it your intention for fans to be able to work out a timeline of 
the series like the one on the DVD of Chamber of Secrets, or did you 
think of the series as more timeless when you began it?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**Snape**

Will Harry, Ron, and Hermione ever meet (or have they already met) a 
vampire?

Are the Snapes an old wizarding family like the Blacks and Malfoys?

Are Professor Snape's parents still alive?  
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



So, there it is.  Cut and paste, do your own thing.  Here's hoping 
some of us get on!

Erin




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu Mar  4 09:36:46 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:36:46 -0000
Subject: Almost Chat time!!!! Those questions.
In-Reply-To: <c26sa8+1kg4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c26tbe+p6l3@eGroups.com>

Erin wrote:
> Well, here it is,  the World Book Day Online festival. Less than 
one 
> hour until the chat starts.  And in case anyone else is bopping 
> around the internet waiting for the start like I am, here is that 
> list of questions I promised so long ago, terribly sorry about the 
> lateness.
> 

Well, I'm at a customer site and can't chat, but, Good luck everybody!

David,

who has visions of JKR's minders standing over the kids in the 
Victoria high school and rejecting questions until a suitably anodyne 
one comes up, and then forwarding it to JKR as the kid's 'choice'.




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu Mar  4 11:35:08 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:35:08 -0000
Subject: World Book Day Chat: - script?
In-Reply-To: <c26sa8+1kg4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2749c+kuir@eGroups.com>

Erin wrote:

> Here is the address for the festival:
> 
> http://www.worldbookdayfestival.com/2004/index.html
> 
> Apparently all you have to do is click on the picture of Rowling 
when 
> it's time.

It's not clear to me if they will now provide a script.

Did anyone manage to log the chat, or was that not possible?  And if 
so, would it be possible to upload it, or is that a breach of 
copyright?

David




From heidilist at tandys.org  Thu Mar  4 11:50:36 2004
From: heidilist at tandys.org (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 06:50:36 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] World Book Day Chat: - script?
In-Reply-To: <c2749c+kuir@eGroups.com>
References: <c2749c+kuir@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1078401038.952C8A2@r31.dngr.org>

We'll have it on tlc in the next 10 minutes.
On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 6:36am, davewitley wrote:
> Erin wrote:
>
>>  Here is the address for the festival:
>>
>>  http://www.worldbookdayfestival.com/2004/index.html
>>
>>  Apparently all you have to do is click on the picture of Rowling
> when
>>  it's time.
>
> It's not clear to me if they will now provide a script.
>
> Did anyone manage to log the chat, or was that not possible?  And if
> so, would it be possible to upload it, or is that a breach of
> copyright?
>
> David
>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin 
> Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from 
> posts to which you're replying!
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>



From erinellii at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  4 11:50:36 2004
From: erinellii at yahoo.com (Erin)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:50:36 -0000
Subject: World Book Day Chat: - script?
In-Reply-To: <c2749c+kuir@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2756c+fa5s@eGroups.com>


It's on the leaky cauldron.  Does anyone remember my dream?  My 
friend who was in it actually got to talk to JKR and asked a question 
about the movie.  The meaning is clear.

Erin

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "davewitley" 
<dfrankiswork at n...> wrote:
> Erin wrote:
> 
> > Here is the address for the festival:
> > 
> > http://www.worldbookdayfestival.com/2004/index.html
> > 
> > Apparently all you have to do is click on the picture of Rowling 
> when 
> > it's time.
> 
> It's not clear to me if they will now provide a script.
> 
> Did anyone manage to log the chat, or was that not possible?  And 
if 
> so, would it be possible to upload it, or is that a breach of 
> copyright?
> 
> David




From heidilist at tandys.org  Thu Mar  4 12:07:07 2004
From: heidilist at tandys.org (heiditandy)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:07:07 -0000
Subject: Just sharing - thoughts on the transcript
Message-ID: <c2765b+kthu@eGroups.com>

<<Megan: Is there a link between Snape and vampires? 
JK Rowling replies -> Erm... I don't think so >>

Erm. : watches smiles rise and grins crash on both sides of the 
argument

<<Do you realise Harry & co sit on their broomsticks backwards? You 
can't balance like that? 
JK Rowling replies -> lol You clearly haven't read 'Quidditch 
Through the Ages', or you'd know about the cushioning charm! Buy it 
at once, it's for charity! >>

I swear! I didn't know she was going to say that! Um. Is she lurking 
here?

ANd lastly, as I'm sure a few of you expected me to glom onto this -
I feel that anything she says about *future* stuff should be taken 
with a grain of salt, including but not limited to the following 
which is CLEARLY A RED HERRING:

Chibimono: Do you have any future plans in particular for Draco
Malfoy?

JK Rowling replies -> I've got plans for all my characters.
Actually, this is a really good place to answer a question about
Draco and Hermione, which a certain Ms. Radcliffe is desperate to
have answered. Will they end up together in book six/seven? NO! The
trouble is, of course, that girls fancy Tom Felton, but Draco is NOT
Tom Felton!


(notice she didn't say anything about GETTING together, just ENDING 
UP together, and she said in BOOK SIX/SEVEN, which clearly does not
incorporate the world AFTER BOOK SEVEN.

RIGHT?)





From mike at aberforthsgoat.net  Thu Mar  4 12:21:49 2004
From: mike at aberforthsgoat.net (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:21:49 +0100
Subject: World Book Day Chat: so who sent the 15,000 Questions?
In-Reply-To: <c2756c+fa5s@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <209B8A03E1FFCC40A577E6FF0DF2524501055C@80-218-4-189.dclient.hispeed.ch>

Hi guys!

Had fun firing questions into the ether during the chat, even though I
assumed (correctly) they didn't have a snowball's chance. But 16,000
questions sure is an awful lot ...

Im Baaaaaa(ck)!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) 
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, 
so that may not have been bravery...."
 




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu Mar  4 12:39:54 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:39:54 -0000
Subject: World Book Day Chat: - script?
In-Reply-To: <1078401038.952C8A2@r31.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <c2782q+97ps@eGroups.com>

Heidi Tandy <heidilist at t...> wrote:
> We'll have it on tlc in the next 10 minutes.

*Strikes forehead* D'Oh!  Of course you have!  One day I'll learn to 
check automatically.

I feel it's time to dust off my old theory that Voldemort is (or was) 
protected by a mother-love charm from his own mother, ('mark him as 
his equal') and that Dumbeldore's gleam is because mixing that with 
Harry's protection messes it up.

David




From coolbeans3131 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  4 13:00:50 2004
From: coolbeans3131 at yahoo.com (coolbeans3131)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 13:00:50 -0000
Subject: World Book Day Chat: so who sent the 15,000 Questions?
In-Reply-To: <209B8A03E1FFCC40A577E6FF0DF2524501055C@80-218-4-189.dclient.hispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <c279a2+ec9t@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Aberforth's Goat" 
<mike at a...> wrote:
> Hi guys!
> 
> Had fun firing questions into the ether during the chat, even 
though I
> assumed (correctly) they didn't have a snowball's chance. But 16,000
> questions sure is an awful lot ...


Well, I submited about 15 questions, and she actually answered one!  
I can't believe it!

"Coolbeans3131: Would you like to see the same actors portray the 
trio in all 7 movies?
JK Rowling replies -> Yes, I would. I really like all three of them."

WooHoo, although I do think most of my other questions were better.  
It was my only movie question.  I would feel really guilty, but she 
answered so many questions!  We'll have stuff to talk about for weeks!

Joj(aka coolbeans3131) who hopes no one wants to kill her for asking 
such a dumb question.  It was late here!




From eloiseherisson at aol.com  Thu Mar  4 13:16:49 2004
From: eloiseherisson at aol.com (eloise_herisson)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 13:16:49 -0000
Subject: World Book Day Chat: so who sent the 15,000 Questions?
In-Reply-To: <209B8A03E1FFCC40A577E6FF0DF2524501055C@80-218-4-189.dclient.hispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <c27a81+bdpb@eGroups.com>

Mike:
> Hi guys!
> 
> Had fun firing questions into the ether during the chat, even 
though I
> assumed (correctly) they didn't have a snowball's chance. But 16,000
> questions sure is an awful lot ...

It is! One of mine was asked, (although I was having problems getting 
into the chat and Ali actually submitted it - I guess that if I'd 
submitted it myself it would have disappeared into the ether with the 
rest). I was amazed that it came up, but not by the non-commital 
response. I only wish one of others that she might have been willing 
to answer had been picked.

I did notice, though, that there seemed to be more than one person 
who had more than one question answered (no fair!) and was a little 
frustrated by some of the questions that were either dead certs not 
to be answered (ahem, like mine, but that's a different cauldron of 
fish) or were already answered in canon.

>Im Baaaaaa(ck)!

Maaaavellous! 

~Eloise




From naama_gat at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  4 14:23:44 2004
From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naamagatus)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:23:44 -0000
Subject: Just sharing - thoughts on the transcript
In-Reply-To: <c2765b+kthu@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c27e5g+j672@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "heiditandy" <heidilist at t...> 
wrote:
<snip> 
> ANd lastly, as I'm sure a few of you expected me to glom onto this -
> I feel that anything she says about *future* stuff should be taken 
> with a grain of salt, including but not limited to the following 
> which is CLEARLY A RED HERRING:
> 
> Chibimono: Do you have any future plans in particular for Draco
> Malfoy?
> 
> JK Rowling replies -> I've got plans for all my characters.
> Actually, this is a really good place to answer a question about
> Draco and Hermione, which a certain Ms. Radcliffe is desperate to
> have answered. Will they end up together in book six/seven? NO! The
> trouble is, of course, that girls fancy Tom Felton, but Draco is NOT
> Tom Felton!
> 
> 
> (notice she didn't say anything about GETTING together, just ENDING 
> UP together, and she said in BOOK SIX/SEVEN, which clearly does not
> incorporate the world AFTER BOOK SEVEN.
> 
> RIGHT?)


Wrong! Book seven will include an epilogue of the protagonists' 
future lives. SO - if Draco & Hermione won't end up together in book 
seven, they will NEVER end up together (YAY!!!). And regarding 
the "getting together"/"ending up" thing <shakes head in pity> -  I 
feel, Heidi, you are in need of a support group. Maybe you could ask 
SAD DENIAL to devote some sessions to this issue? <veg>

Naama, gloating




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu Mar  4 14:38:27 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:38:27 -0000
Subject: World Book Day Chat: so who sent the 15,000 Questions?
In-Reply-To: <c279a2+ec9t@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c27f13+52ro@eGroups.com>

Joj wrote:

> "Coolbeans3131: Would you like to see the same actors portray the 
> trio in all 7 movies?
> JK Rowling replies -> Yes, I would. I really like all three of 
them."
> 
> WooHoo, although I do think most of my other questions were 
better.  
> It was my only movie question.  I would feel really guilty, but she 
> answered so many questions!  We'll have stuff to talk about for 
weeks!
> 
> Joj(aka coolbeans3131) who hopes no one wants to kill her for 
asking 
> such a dumb question.  It was late here!

No, it lends support to my belief that there is some kind of 
filtering system to try to ensure that only dumb questions got 
through.  I think that WB, Scholastic & the rest tend to assume that 
anything slightly out of the ordinary from the fan community is a 
dark plot to take money that is rightfully theirs (the idea that 
creative fan activity might *expand* the market and so benefit them 
too is too wacky for a corporate suit to understand) and look for 
ways to suppress it.  Ask any conference organiser.  Remember, we 
have been discussing chat tactics here and in other places such as 
the comments sections on The Leaky Cauldron.

That said, I thought the general standard of questions wasn't bad and 
JKR a lot more forthcoming than I'd feared.  I felt quite a few 
questions reflected the sort of discussions we'd been having.

David




From bumbledor at charter.net  Thu Mar  4 15:30:33 2004
From: bumbledor at charter.net (Bumbledor)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:30:33 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Almost Chat time!!!! What ZONE?!
References: <c26sa8+1kg4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <013201c401fd$a3248610$6501a8c0@mac>

Ya know, seeing how we are now a world wide commuinity, I do wish they
would put what time zone they are in.. I mean 10-11 am, is that EST, PST,
GMT, or what exactly time are they using?




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Erin" <erinellii at yahoo.com>
To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 4:19 AM
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Almost Chat time!!!! Those questions.


> Well, here it is,  the World Book Day Online festival. Less than one
> hour until the chat starts.  And in case anyone else is bopping
> around the internet waiting for the start like I am, here is that
> list of questions I promised so long ago, terribly sorry about the
> lateness.
>
> Here is the address for the festival:
>
> http://www.worldbookdayfestival.com/2004/index.html
>
> Apparently all you have to do is click on the picture of Rowling when
> it's time.
>
>
>
> **Lupin**
>
> In PoA, Lupin had a bag with Professor R. J. Lupin stamped on it in
> peeling letters.  Where was he a professor before Hogwarts and what
> does his middle initial stand for?
>
> Where does Lupin live at the end of GoF when Dumbledore tells Sirius
> to "lie low at Lupin's"?
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> **The Weasleys**
>
> How old are Mr. and Mrs. Weasley?
>
> How old are Bill and Charlie?
>
> Any chance that Arthur Weasley was a victim of the Imperius curse
> during You-Know-Who's first rise to power?
>
> Ron got his leg broken in PoA.  Which leg was it, and does he have a
> scar there now?
>
> How exactly did Scabbers attach himself to young Percy?
>
> What color are Ron's eyes?
>
> How come Arthur hasn't learned more about Muggles and their lives
> after working in a muggle department for so long?
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> **Harry's past**
>
> Do the colour of Harry's eyes matter specifically, or is it just the
> fact that Lily and Harry have the "same eyes" that matters?
>
> Where is Godric's Hollow located?
>
> What house (or houses) were James, Sirius, Lupin, and Peter in?
>
> Any chance that Petunia was a squib or that her and Lily's parents,
> Mr. and Mrs. Evans, were squibs?
>
> Does Harry still need to study Occlumency, or is Voldemort now
> permanently banished from his mind?
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> **Dumbledore**
>
> Does Dumbledore actually *like* Cockroach Clusters?
>
> How did Dumbledore know what made Voldemort stop possessing Harry?
>
> We know you can't apparate into or out of Hogwarts, but we've seen
> Dumbledore send people into and out of his office by portkey and
> arrive by Floo powder himself. Is that a lapse in security or can
> only the headmaster do that?
>
> When Dumbledore conjures the sleeping bags in PoA, has he summoned
> them *from* somewhere, or actually created them?
>
> If Dumbledore thought that Sirius was the Potter's secret keeper, how
> come he was not surprised when Hagrid told him he saw Sirius and
> borrowed his bike?
>
> - Are we ever going to know about Dumbledore's life before Harry's
> events? If he's about 150 years, there's a lot of story...
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> **How the WW Works**
>
> Do "evanesco" and "scourgify" make things cease to exist or just go
> somewhere else?
>
> Are the Pensieve's memories totally objective like a video camera?
>
> How do children from Wizarding families learn reading and writing and
> math before they get to Hogwarts?
>
> Why do some people make a loud "crack" when they disapparate, and
> other people make only small "pop"s?
>
> If no one can apparate or disapparate inside Hogwarts, what is it
> that Dobby and Fawkes do when they disappear?
>
> Could Arabella Figg, as a squib, actually see the dementors as she
> said at Harry's hearing, or not?
>
> The Put-Outer is used at the Dursleys' and at Grimmauld Place.  Does
> it confer some sort of magical protection besides the cover of
> darkness for these important hideouts?
>
> We've seen in OoP that portkeys do work inside Hogwarts.  So how come
> Crouch Jr. had to get Harry into the Triwizard Tournament and wait
> for the third task before sending Harry to Voldemort?  Couldn't he
> just have turned anything in the castle into a  Portkey at any time?
>
> Are long fingers a sign of magical power?
>
> What do you call the non-magical offspring of a mixed, Muggle/Magic
> couple? Would they be Muggles or Squibs?
>
>
> Messenger owls and Thestrals seem impressively fast. Do they travel
> by magic? And if so, how exactly does that magic work?
>
>
> What is the top speed of the fastest broom?
>
> Why are portkeys so tightly controlled by the Ministry and are they
> dangerous if done improperly?
>
> Are there limits to how far a wizard can be transported by
> apparating, the Floo network, or portkeys? If so, what are the limits?
>
> Why in the world are Hags (who eat children) allowed anywhere near
> Hogwarts, let alone into the town pubs when the students have a
> Hogsmeade Weekend?
>
> What is the difference between a wizard and a warlock?
>
> How are unicorn horns harvested for use in potions-making?
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> **Other people**
>
> Blaise Zabini: boy or girl?
>
> Will we ever find out who Florence was that the pensieve memory of
> Bertha Jorkins mentioned in the 4th book, or who she was kissing?
>
> Will Mark Evans (the ten-year-old Dudley beat up at the beginning of
> OoP) show up in the next books at all?
>
> Is Andromeda Tonks still alive?
>
> Did Stan Shunpike (from the knight bus) go to Hogwarts?
>
> Who is the Slytherin boy who saw the thestrals?
>
> Whatever happened to Karkaroff?
>
> Will Harry ever meet Professor Dumbledore's brother, Aberforth?
>
> Will there ever be a "good Slytherin"?
>
> When Hagrid was expelled and became the gamekeeper at Hogwarts, was
> he the gamekeeper immediately at age 13?  Or was he apprenticed to
> the former gamekeeper, Ogg, for a while?  And if so, how long?
>
> Was Minerva McGonagall at school with Tom Riddle?
>
> Did Tom Riddle ever date, or was he too busy learning the Dark Arts?
>
> Why did Voldemort personally kill Dorcas Meadows?
>
> What house was Moaning Myrtle in when she was alive?
>
> I was sad about Sirius, but overall not too impressed with You-Know-
> Who in Order of the Phoenix.  Is he going to get scarier in the next
> two books?  (please, please!)
>
> Who is Arabella Figg related to in the wizarding world?
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> **Other stuff**
>
> Fans have found ways to anagram many of the names currently in Harry
> Potter.  Are there any more names in the series that are intentional
> anagrams of anything beyond the example seen in Chamber of Secrets?
>
> In GoF, did Fudge say "I've heard of a curse scar acting as an alarm
> bell before," as per the British version, or should it have
> been, "I've never heard of a curse scar acting as an alarm bell
> before," as in the American edition?
>
> What's up with all the socks?
>
> Why all the bad teeth?  At last count, Snape, Sirius, and Karkaroff
> all had yellow teeth, and now Hagrid's gotten some teeth knocked out
> by Grawp. Has the wizarding world never heard of dentists?
>
> In CoS, Nearly Headless Nick is celebrating his 500th death day.  But
> in Philosopher's Stone, he tells Harry he hasn't eaten in "nearly
> four hundred years".  Is this a mistake or could he somehow eat for
> one hundred years after he died?
>
> Was it your intention for fans to be able to work out a timeline of
> the series like the one on the DVD of Chamber of Secrets, or did you
> think of the series as more timeless when you began it?
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> **Snape**
>
> Will Harry, Ron, and Hermione ever meet (or have they already met) a
> vampire?
>
> Are the Snapes an old wizarding family like the Blacks and Malfoys?
>
> Are Professor Snape's parents still alive?
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
> So, there it is.  Cut and paste, do your own thing.  Here's hoping
> some of us get on!
>
> Erin
>
>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from
posts to which you're replying!
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>




From heidilist at tandys.org  Thu Mar  4 16:16:37 2004
From: heidilist at tandys.org (heiditandy)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:16:37 -0000
Subject: Just sharing - thoughts on the transcript
In-Reply-To: <c27e5g+j672@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c27kp5+fud1@eGroups.com>


> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "heiditandy" 
<heidilist at t...> 
> wrote:
> <snip> 
> > ANd lastly, as I'm sure a few of you expected me to glom onto 
this -
> > I feel that anything she says about *future* stuff should be 
taken 
> > with a grain of salt, including but not limited to the following 
> > which is CLEARLY A RED HERRING:
> > 
> > Chibimono: Do you have any future plans in particular for Draco
> > Malfoy?
> > 
> > JK Rowling replies -> I've got plans for all my characters.
> > Actually, this is a really good place to answer a question about
> > Draco and Hermione, which a certain Ms. Radcliffe is desperate to
> > have answered. Will they end up together in book six/seven? NO! 
The
> > trouble is, of course, that girls fancy Tom Felton, but Draco is 
NOT
> > Tom Felton!
> > 
> > 
> > (notice she didn't say anything about GETTING together, just 
ENDING 
> > UP together, and she said in BOOK SIX/SEVEN, which clearly does 
not
> > incorporate the world AFTER BOOK SEVEN.
> > 
> > RIGHT?)

Naama replied:  
> Wrong! Book seven will include an epilogue of the protagonists' 
> future lives. 

Are you ever so very sure of that, still, now that she also said, in 
response to "Are you going to write books about Harry after 
school?" "Probably not, but I'll never say never because every time 
I do I immediately break the vow!"


Heidi




From eloiseherisson at aol.com  Thu Mar  4 16:34:02 2004
From: eloiseherisson at aol.com (eloiseherisson at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:34:02 EST
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Almost Chat time!!!! What ZONE?!
Message-ID: <54.242f40d0.2d78b47a@aol.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Bumbledor"  wrote:
> Ya know, seeing how we are now a world wide commuinity, I do wish they
> would put what time zone they are in.. I mean 10-11 am, is that EST, PST,
> GMT, or what exactly time are they using?
> 


Being a nation which encompasses only one time zone, we aren't wont to state 
which time zone we are referring to as routinely as happens in the US. Given 
that it is fairly obviously a British site, I'm sure the designers saw it as 
given that it was GMT, unlike an American website, where there is scope for more 
ambiguity.

~Eloise


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From katydid3500 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  4 17:10:06 2004
From: katydid3500 at yahoo.com (Kathryn Wolber)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:10:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: World Book Day Chat: so who sent the 15,000 Questions?
In-Reply-To: <c27f13+52ro@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040304171006.47288.qmail@web40510.mail.yahoo.com>



> Joj wrote:
> 
> > "Coolbeans3131: Would you like to see the same
> actors portray the 
> > trio in all 7 movies?
> > JK Rowling replies -> Yes, I would. I really like
> all three of 
> them."
> > 
> > WooHoo, although I do think most of my other
> questions were 
> better.  
> > It was my only movie question.  I would feel
> really guilty, but she 
> > answered so many questions!  We'll have stuff to
> talk about for 
> weeks!
> > 
> > Joj(aka coolbeans3131) who hopes no one wants to
> kill her for 
> asking 
> > such a dumb question.  It was late here!

Don't feel bad, it's a valid question even if it's not
deeply intertwined with canon. It's nice to know that
JKR likes the kids in the movies cause if she didn't
I'd have trouble liking the movies so much:) The
person I do want to find, though JKR made an
interesting response to it, is whoever asked if Ron
will ever get on the Quidditch team. When I read that
I was like "HELLO???? Did you read book 5??" Oh well,
what's done is done. What does everyone think about
the Charlie and Bill age issue being fought about over
at The Leaky Cauldron??

Katie, who is thrilled to have something so wonderful
to wake up to this morning:)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com



From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu Mar  4 17:43:57 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 17:43:57 -0000
Subject: Just sharing - thoughts on the transcript
In-Reply-To: <c27kp5+fud1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c27pst+t7k1@eGroups.com>

> > > Chibimono: Do you have any future plans in particular for Draco
> > > Malfoy?
> > > 
> > > JK Rowling replies -> I've got plans for all my characters.
> > > Actually, this is a really good place to answer a question about
> > > Draco and Hermione, which a certain Ms. Radcliffe is desperate 
to
> > > have answered. Will they end up together in book six/seven? NO! 
> The
> > > trouble is, of course, that girls fancy Tom Felton, but Draco 
is 
> NOT
> > > Tom Felton!

Heidi, springing eternal:

> > > (notice she didn't say anything about GETTING together, just 
> ENDING 
> > > UP together, and she said in BOOK SIX/SEVEN, which clearly does 
> not
> > > incorporate the world AFTER BOOK SEVEN.
> > > 
> > > RIGHT?)
 
Naama replied:  
> > Wrong! Book seven will include an epilogue of the protagonists' 
> > future lives. 

Heidi:
> 
> Are you ever so very sure of that, still, now that she also said, 
in 
> response to "Are you going to write books about Harry after 
> school?" "Probably not, but I'll never say never because every time 
> I do I immediately break the vow!"

I feel you are missing the context here.  JKR wasn't asked about D/H 
and she went out of her way to rule it out, and in that context I 
feel 'ending up' is more forceful than 'getting'.  In effect, she was 
swamped with 16,000 questions, she answered 150, and she *still* made 
room to help her friend Ms Radcliffe (anyone know the reference here -
 anything to do with Dan?) get over her sad delusion.

The second quote shows she does indeed have a post-Hogwarts vision of 
some sort, which gives a meaning to the notion of 'ending up' which 
would otherwise be absent.

However, Heidi, I feel bound to point out that if you want to see 
Books 8, 9, 10... you should keep writing H/D: it might be the very 
irritant that will cause JKR to write new books as rebuttals!

David, poking his tongue at the fandom since 2001




From joym999 at aol.com  Thu Mar  4 18:07:33 2004
From: joym999 at aol.com (joywitch_m_curmudgeon)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:07:33 -0000
Subject: Just sharing - thoughts on the transcript
In-Reply-To: <c27pst+t7k1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c27r95+r66n@eGroups.com>

Yeh, well, I'm with Heidi, in spirit, anyway, since I think a 
Hermione/Draco ship is out of the question.  But I admire Heidi's 
willingness to persevere despite evidence to the contrary, because I 
don't care what JKR says, Snape *IS* too a vampire.

--Joywitch, who is glad to see the goat galloping around




From becca_price at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  4 18:27:34 2004
From: becca_price at yahoo.com (becca_price)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:27:34 -0000
Subject: Citing Rowling
Message-ID: <c27sem+10ot9@eGroups.com>

I want to make a reference to the Potterverse in a paper I'm writing:
specifically, I'm describing clinical depression as how I imagine it
feels to run into a dementor. I need to cite the reference. I
currently say "Harry Potter, dementors, and all other references to
that universe were developed by J. K. Rowling" - do I need to say "and
are the property of Scholastic Books"? do I give copyright and a date?
if so, should the date be the first book or the most recent one? is
"dementor" one of the words that have been specifically copyrighted or
trademarked? 

thanks,
 
Becca 






From fakeplastikcynic at hotmail.com  Thu Mar  4 20:36:48 2004
From: fakeplastikcynic at hotmail.com (Lady Martha)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:36:48 -0000
Subject: Citing Rowling
In-Reply-To: <c27sem+10ot9@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c28410+cdn5@eGroups.com>

Becca:

> I want to make a reference to the Potterverse in a paper I'm 
writing:
> specifically, I'm describing clinical depression as how I imagine it
> feels to run into a dementor. I need to cite the reference. I
> currently say "Harry Potter, dementors, and all other references to
> that universe were developed by J. K. Rowling" - do I need to 
say "and
> are the property of Scholastic Books"? do I give copyright and a 
date?
> if so, should the date be the first book or the most recent one? is
> "dementor" one of the words that have been specifically copyrighted 
or
> trademarked? 

Martha:

Hi Becca. As far as I know, there is no need to refer to Scholastic - 
or even to state the reference so formally. As a general rule, as 
long as you provide the author's name so you can't be accused of 
plagiarism, you'll be OK.

I don't know which system of referencing you use, but I use the APA 
(American Psychological Association) version. In this, you need to 
mention the author and date in the text itself, then provide a full 
reference at the end, like this:

In the text of the paper (an example):

... The symptoms of depression are blah, blah and blah. These are 
also the symptoms encountered when one encounters a "dementor" 
(Rowling, 2003). Or, alternatively, "as described by J K Rowling in 
her Harry Potter series" - since it's not an academic paper you're 
referring to. 

In your bibliography:

Rowling, J K, 2003. _Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix._ 
London: Bloomsbury.

This is the format I've always used when referring to novels in 
literature essays, although you should probably check with your 
teacher/whoever for the appropriate format. It also depends on what 
the subject is.

Of course, I'm assuming you're not writing this to be published. If 
you are, it's might be worth sticking in a quick "Harry Potter is a 
trademark of Warner Bros" or something. However, bear in mind that as 
long as your work won't reach the public, it's highly unlikely you'll 
be sued. :-)

Anyway, I hope you can pull something useful out of all that waffle.

Cheers

Martha




From dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  4 23:33:15 2004
From: dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com (dudemom_2000)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 23:33:15 -0000
Subject: Almost Chat time!!!! What ZONE?!
In-Reply-To: <54.242f40d0.2d78b47a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <c28ebr+msjm@eGroups.com>

It is probably Greenwich Mean Time which is measured at the 
Greenwich Meridian Line at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich!
For more information see:

http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/home.htm

Hope this helps. 

Dudemom_2000

*****\(@@)/*****

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, eloiseherisson at a... wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Bumbledor"  wrote:
> > Ya know, seeing how we are now a world wide commuinity, I do 
wish they
> > would put what time zone they are in.. I mean 10-11 am, is that 
EST, PST,
> > GMT, or what exactly time are they using?
> > 
> 
> 
> Being a nation which encompasses only one time zone, we aren't 
wont to state 
> which time zone we are referring to as routinely as happens in the 
US. Given 
> that it is fairly obviously a British site, I'm sure the designers 
saw it as 
> given that it was GMT, unlike an American website, where there is 
scope for more 
> ambiguity.
> 
> ~Eloise
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  5 00:33:09 2004
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 00:33:09 -0000
Subject: Just sharing - thoughts on the transcript
In-Reply-To: <c27r95+r66n@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c28hs5+6231@eGroups.com>

Joywitch wrote:

> I 
> don't care what JKR says, Snape *IS* too a vampire.

Take heart.  If Heidi can wring H/D out of that emphatic denial, 
I'm sure she can stitch you a vampire cloak for Snape out of thin 
air.  

*I* would like to gloat about her clear statement that Ginny has a 
personality.  I think it was abundantly obvious in OoP even to 
those who couldn't see it before then, but given that some 
people will not abandon their conviction that Ginny has the 
personality of a wet dishcloth, it's particularly satisfying to have 
JKR point out the same evidence we Ginny-defenders have been 
pointing out for years, e.g. that Ron says *back in CoS* that she 
normally "never shuts up."
 
> --Joywitch, who is glad to see the goat galloping around

Amy, ditto

and who also wonders if JKR just makes up things like "the J is 
for John" and "the P is for Patricia" on the spot, or actually has 
this kind of trivia already recorded in the famed notebooks




From becca_price at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  4 23:18:27 2004
From: becca_price at yahoo.com (becca_price)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 23:18:27 -0000
Subject: Citing Rowling
In-Reply-To: <c28410+cdn5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c28dg3+o4jj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lady Martha" 
> Of course, I'm assuming you're not writing this to be published. If 
> you are, it's might be worth sticking in a quick "Harry Potter is a 
> trademark of Warner Bros" or something. However, bear in mind that as 
> long as your work won't reach the public, it's highly unlikely you'll 
> be sued. :-)

thanks, Martha.

I have no idea whether my article will be published or not, but it's
always nice to leave contingencies open <g>. So, I've added the line 
you suggest - can't hurt.

-becca





From marcelocordova2004 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  4 21:24:26 2004
From: marcelocordova2004 at yahoo.com (marcelo cordoba)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:24:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Urgent email opinions request from journalist in Chile (about Potter adult fans)
In-Reply-To: <c24ngb+80tv@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040304212426.13701.qmail@web21412.mail.yahoo.com>

Many thanks for your help!

--- sophierom <sophierom at yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com,
> "marcelocordova2004" 
> <marcelocordova2004 at y...> wrote:
> > Hi:
> > 
> > My name is Marcelo Cordova and Im a journalist
> from La Tercera
> > newspaper in Chile, South America
> (www.tercera.cl). I work in the
> > Trends section and I send this message because Im
> writing an 
> article
> > for this friday (march 5th) about the phenomenon
> of adult fans of
> > the Harry Potter saga. This because the last book
> was just released
> > here and is already sold out!. Many people who
> bought it were 
> grownups
> > and we would like to get some comments about this
> trend around the
> > globe.
> > 
> > If any of you have some time could answer these
> questions? You can
> > post your opinions directly here or send them to
> > marcelocordova2004 at y... Please put your name (or a
> nick if you
> > want), age, occupation and country. Many thanks in
> advance:
> 
> Hi, I'm Sophie, a 26 year old Ph.D. candidate from
> the U.S.  
> 
> > 1. In an article published by The Orlando Sentinel
> about Nimbus
> > 2003, it says that individuals on that event were
> "college 
> professors
> > and college students, advertising copywriters and
> unemployed 
> computer
> > consultants, substitute teachers and wanna-be
> teachers. They've 
> come
> > from California and New York, Australia and
> England. Above all 
> else,
> > they are Harry Potter fans. And they are adults".
> First of all:
> > Could you tell me how did you get fascinated by
> the saga of this 
> small
> > kid? And how could you explain that many adults
> feel fascinated by 
> a
> > book with a kid as a protagonist? From that point
> of view: Do you
> > agree with miss Rowling when she says that "it is
> my sense of 
> humour
> > in the books, not what I think children will find
> funny, and I 
> suppose
> > that would explain some of the appeal to adults"?
> 
> While I certainly think Rowling's sense of humor
> helps connect 
> adults to these stories, I think it has more to do
> with the fact 
> that this is a story about growing up, and that's
> something we can 
> all relate to, no matter how old we are.  So, I see
> this series less 
> as a series for children as a series about growing
> up, and I think 
> that can appeal to just about anyone.  If Harry
> stayed 11 throughout 
> all the books, I would doubtless be less attracted
> to the series.   
> 
> 
> > 2. From that point of view: Which are the elements
> of the books 
> that
> > you feel as most appealing to you? Stories,
> characters? Do you 
> think
> > that this is a good read for any adult? You think
> no one should 
> feel
> > ashamed of reading these "child" books?
> 
> I addressed most of this question above. And no, I
> don't feel anyone 
> should be ashamed of reading these books.  Although
> not the greatest 
> literature out there, these books do make me think:
> about moral 
> choices, as well as about the relationship between
> adults and 
> children.  And they're simply fun.  Why it's okay
> for adults to go 
> watch what i would consider "childish movies" (crude
> comedies, for 
> example) but not read books with children as the
> main characters 
> I'll never figure out.  It's thought-provoking
> entertainment. 
> 
> 
> 
> > 3. Bloomsbury spokeswoman Lucy Chapman said in an
> article from BBC
> > that she "thinks that adults can find another
> level in the Potter
> > books". She said that people can read "into the
> mythology that runs
> > through the novels, they pick up on more, such as
> the Latin school
> > mottos." Do you think that is a key for success
> between adults? 
> From
> > that same point of view: It is possible to think,
> like mister Joel
> > Rickett - news editor of the Bookseller website-
> says, that 
> the "Harry
> > Potter phenomenon also coincided with a time when
> it became
> > fashionable for adults to indulge in children's
> activities, such as
> > computer games"?.
> 
> I think both Rickett and Chapman have valid points.
> I think in 
> general that my friends and I (people in our 20s)
> have fewer hang 
> ups about experiencing things outside the categories
> in which we're 
> supposed to fit.  As a young female adult, marketing
> people think 
> I'm supposed to be doing certain things: in my early
> 20s, I 
> was "supposed to be" drinking and partying, buying
> lots of cute 
> clothing; now that I'm in my late 20s, I'm supposed
> to be settling 
> down soon and starting a family.  But I don't fit
> into those 
> marketing categories.  I don't think I like the idea
> of marketing 
> people telling me what I should do and what I should
> like.  
> 
> 
> > 4. Mister Rickett also says that the aura
> surrounding the author as
> > a factor in Harry Potter's appeal to an adult
> audience. "The books 
> are
> > the product of one person which gives them an air
> of authenticity.
> > The romantic image of a single mother writing
> stories in a caf is
> > appealing.", he says. What do you think about
> that?
> 
> I didn't even know this when I started reading the
> books.  I don't 
> think this had much of an impact on me.
> 
> > 5. "Families were going into bookshops and buying
> up multiple 
> copies
> > on the first day of sale. Adults could not wait
> for the paperback
> > grown-up version to come out," said a Bloomsbury
> spokesperson. Have
> > you gone to midnight sales and waited for the
> books like hundreds 
> of
> > kids? Do you remember any story or anecdote about
> those events or
> > about being an adult fan of Potter? Have you gone
> with your family
> > to buy the books?
> 
> My husband was actually the first person I knew who
> started reading 
> the books, and initially, I did poke fun at him for
> reading kids' 
> books.  But he convinced me to read the first book,
> and I was 
> enchanted.  There was something quite appealing
> about the idea of 
> discovering a new world; it reminded me of reading
> C.S. Lewis's 
> Narnia series as a child.  I think that's another
> appeal of the 
> Harry Potter series: it coincides with a growing
> appreciation 
=== message truncated ===


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From marcelocordova2004 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  4 21:19:41 2004
From: marcelocordova2004 at yahoo.com (marcelo cordoba)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:19:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Urgent email opinions request from journalist in Chile (about Potter adult fans)
In-Reply-To: <c25i7b+og05@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040304211941.83420.qmail@web21401.mail.yahoo.com>

Many thanks for your help!

--- Sternel <starling823 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 1. In an article published by The Orlando Sentinel
> about Nimbus
> > 2003, it says that individuals on that event were
> "college 
> professors
> > and college students, advertising copywriters and
> unemployed 
> computer
> > consultants, substitute teachers and wanna-be
> teachers. They've come
> > from California and New York, Australia and
> England. Above all else,
> > they are Harry Potter fans. And they are adults".
> First of all:
> > Could you tell me how did you get fascinated by
> the saga of this 
> small
> > kid? And how could you explain that many adults
> feel fascinated by a
> > book with a kid as a protagonist? From that point
> of view: Do you
> > agree with miss Rowling when she says that "it is
> my sense of humour
> > in the books, not what I think children will find
> funny, and I 
> suppose
> > that would explain some of the appeal to adults"?
> 
> I first read Harry Potter after a boyfriend
> recommended them to me, 
> and I fell in love with them instantly. I really
> can't explain why 
> they enraptured me so much.  I think despite the
> protagonist being a 
> child, all the characters are well-depicted --
> adults as well as 
> children, all seen through Harry's eyes. I think
> what we are reacting 
> to is this story of someone trying to make sense of
> the world around 
> him; that's something we all have experienced, and
> we all understand.
>  I agree with Rowling's statement; there is a
> definate sense of humor 
> running throughout these books that make reading
> them enjoyable.  If 
> not for that tongue-in-cheek quality, people
> wouldn't want to return 
> to them.  
> 
> 
> > 
> > 2. From that point of view: Which are the elements
> of the books that
> > you feel as most appealing to you? Stories,
> characters? Do you think
> > that this is a good read for any adult? You think
> no one should feel
> > ashamed of reading these "child" books?
> 
> The characters are what keeps me reading; they are
> multilayered and 
> rich, and we discover new things about them in every
> book.  JKR's 
> characterizations are one of the strongest aspects
> of Harry Potter.  
> I don't think one should be ashamed of reading a
> 'child's' book as an 
> adult -- if it's good enough for you as a child,
> what should that 
> change as an adult?  A good story is a good story,
> and if it's 
> written on a level children can understand but with
> depth that adults 
> can appreciate, it allows a wider audience to
> appreciate it, both 
> seperately and together. 
> 
> 
> > 3. Bloomsbury spokeswoman Lucy Chapman said in an
> article from BBC
> > that she "thinks that adults can find another
> level in the Potter
> > books". She said that people can read "into the
> mythology that runs
> > through the novels, they pick up on more, such as
> the Latin school
> > mottos." Do you think that is a key for success
> between adults? From
> > that same point of view: It is possible to think,
> like mister Joel
> > Rickett - news editor of the Bookseller website-
> says, that 
> the "Harry
> > Potter phenomenon also coincided with a time when
> it became
> > fashionable for adults to indulge in children's
> activities, such as
> > computer games"?.
> 
> The word games and puns, the references to history,
> the mythological 
> background are all terrific aspects and has actually
> increased my 
> education -- my Latin has gotten more use since I
> stopped studying it 
> in school, I have begun to pursue mythology outside
> of the Greco 
> Roman myths I learned as a child, and have learned a
> great deal of 
> comparative religion as I read about the responses
> of various 
> organized religions to the series.  
> 
> > 
> > 4. Mister Rickett also says that the aura
> surrounding the author as
> > a factor in Harry Potter's appeal to an adult
> audience. "The books 
> are
> > the product of one person which gives them an air
> of authenticity.
> > The romantic image of a single mother writing
> stories in a caf is
> > appealing.", he says. What do you think about
> that?
> 
> I knew nothing about Rowling when I first read the
> books.  I did not 
> learn of her background until after I had sought out
> the first three 
> volumes, so that statement isn't valid at all in my
> case.
> 
> > 
> > 5. "Families were going into bookshops and buying
> up multiple copies
> > on the first day of sale. Adults could not wait
> for the paperback
> > grown-up version to come out," said a Bloomsbury
> spokesperson. Have
> > you gone to midnight sales and waited for the
> books like hundreds of
> > kids? Do you remember any story or anecdote about
> those events or
> > about being an adult fan of Potter? Have you gone
> with your family
> > to buy the books?
> 
> I waited with friends on line at the Toys'R'Us in
> Times Square for 
> the release of Order of the Phoenix.  We were able
> to hear Jim Dale, 
> the narrator of the audiobooks, do a reading and had
> our books by 
> 12:30 am.  We went in costumes, and had a great time
> -- it made that 
> last bit of waiting enjoyable rather than a chore. 
> I hope we're able 
> to repeat the experience for the next book.
> 
> > 
> > 6. In the Order of Phoenix Harry is much more
> mature than in the
> > first one. How do you react on this progressive
> growing process? You
> > think this could make him loose some appeal?
> 
> I'm very glad JKR is writing him this way.  Part of
> what I love about 
> her characterization of Harry is the realistic
> nature of it.  If she 
> hadn't matured Harry that realism would be lost and
> the story would 
> ring false to me.  
> 
> Sternel (Abigail) age 23
> Long Island, New York.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> 
>
________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
> 
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the
> group's Admin Files!
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
> 
> Please use accurate subject headings and snip
> unnecessary material from posts to which you're
> replying!
> 
=== message truncated ===


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From marcelocordova2004 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  4 21:23:31 2004
From: marcelocordova2004 at yahoo.com (marcelo cordoba)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:23:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Urgent email opinions request from journalist in Chile (about Potter adult f
In-Reply-To: <c2545q+q9c8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040304212331.87521.qmail@web21408.mail.yahoo.com>

Many thanks for your help!


--- annemehr <annemehr at yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com,
> "marcelocordova2004"
> <marcelocordova2004 at y...> wrote:
> > Hi:
> > 
> > My name is Marcelo Cordova and Im a journalist
> from La Tercera
> > newspaper in Chile, South America
> (www.tercera.cl). I work in the
> > Trends section and I send this message because Im
> writing an article
> > for this friday (march 5th) about the phenomenon
> of adult fans of
> > the Harry Potter saga. This because the last book
> was just released
> > here and is already sold out!. Many people who
> bought it were grownups
> > and we would like to get some comments about this
> trend around the
> > globe.
> > 
> > If any of you have some time could answer these
> questions? You can
> > post your opinions directly here or send them to
> > marcelocordova2004 at y... Please put your name (or a
> nick if you
> > want), age, occupation and country. Many thanks in
> advance:
> 
> Anne, age 43, at-home Mom, USA.
> > 
> > 1. In an article published by The Orlando Sentinel
> about Nimbus
> > 2003, it says that individuals on that event were
> "college professors
> > and college students, advertising copywriters and
> unemployed computer
> > consultants, substitute teachers and wanna-be
> teachers. They've come
> > from California and New York, Australia and
> England. Above all else,
> > they are Harry Potter fans. And they are adults".
> First of all:
> > Could you tell me how did you get fascinated by
> the saga of this small
> > kid? And how could you explain that many adults
> feel fascinated by a
> > book with a kid as a protagonist? From that point
> of view: Do you
> > agree with miss Rowling when she says that "it is
> my sense of humour
> > in the books, not what I think children will find
> funny, and I suppose
> > that would explain some of the appeal to adults"?
> 
> I am in the habit of sometimes picking up a book my
> kids are reading,
> so I picked up HP and the Sorcerer's Stone.  I was
> fascinated right
> away.  I remember what it was like to be a kid, so I
> easily identified
> with Harry; I don't know why an adult wouldn't like
> to read about a
> child protagonist as long as the characterisation
> was believable. 
> Even though Harry does not always act the way I
> would have acted, I
> still find his actions believable for him.
> 
> I do like Rowling's sense of humor.  There are
> plenty of things that
> both children and adults can find funny.  There are
> also plenty of
> jokes in the book that I "got" and my kids missed
> completely.
>  
> > 
> > 2. From that point of view: Which are the elements
> of the books that
> > you feel as most appealing to you? Stories,
> characters? Do you think
> > that this is a good read for any adult? You think
> no one should feel
> > ashamed of reading these "child" books?
> 
> There is so much that appeals to me: story,
> characters, and themes.  I
> also love how the Wizarding World is portrayed as
> being *just* out of
> our range of vision.  The imagination put into all
> the names tickles
> me, too.
> 
> I do think this is a good read for any adult as long
> as it's to their
> taste.  There's nothing that *everybody* is going to
> like, after all.
>  No, I don't think adults should feel ashamed of
> reading these books,
> as if they are wasting their time on them.  I
> personally get more than
> mere entertainment from them, and I also find that I
> get more out of
> them than my children do (ages 9, 11, and 13).
> 
> > 
> > 3. Bloomsbury spokeswoman Lucy Chapman said in an
> article from BBC
> > that she "thinks that adults can find another
> level in the Potter
> > books". She said that people can read "into the
> mythology that runs
> > through the novels, they pick up on more, such as
> the Latin school
> > mottos." Do you think that is a key for success
> between adults? From
> > that same point of view: It is possible to think,
> like mister Joel
> > Rickett - news editor of the Bookseller website-
> says, that the "Harry
> > Potter phenomenon also coincided with a time when
> it became
> > fashionable for adults to indulge in children's
> activities, such as
> > computer games"?.
> 
> I agree with Lucy Chapman.  I would take it farther
> than what's quoted
> here, though, and extend it to adults also picking
> up on more of the
> themes and character relationships, etc.  As for
> Rickett, I don't
> know.  Didn't Bloomsbury put out "adult" covers
> because adults were
> hiding their HP books?  So that sounds like a
> contradiction.
> 
> > 
> > 4. Mister Rickett also says that the aura
> surrounding the author as
> > a factor in Harry Potter's appeal to an adult
> audience. "The books are
> > the product of one person which gives them an air
> of authenticity.
> > The romantic image of a single mother writing
> stories in a caf is
> > appealing.", he says. What do you think about
> that?
> 
> I had read the first four books before I ever knew
> about Rowling's
> relatively short stint in poverty.  Actually, I
> think I'd read two of
> them before I even knew she was a woman.  I have to
> think that a lot
> of adults began reading them because they picked up
> their kids' books,
> or their kids told them to, or heard the word of
> mouth about how good
> they were.  Apparently, many adults got curious
> after taking their
> kids to a Harry Potter movie.  Then once they'd read
> a bit, many of
> the adults were "hooked."  I can't imagine the
> "writing in a cafe"
> thing has much to do with it.
> 
> > 
> > 5. "Families were going into bookshops and buying
> up multiple copies
> > on the first day of sale. Adults could not wait
> for the paperback
> > grown-up version to come out," said a Bloomsbury
> spokesperson. Have
> > you gone to midnight sales and waited for the
> books like hundreds of
> > kids? Do you remember any story or anecdote about
> those events or
> > about being an adult fan of Potter? Have you gone
> with your family
> > to buy the books?
> 
> I went to the midnight release of Order of the
> Phoenix, just for fun,
> because I'd never done anything like that before.  I
> had all my kids
> with me.  I don't know whether I'll do it again or
> not -- if my kids
> want me to, I'll take them.  Otherwise, I'll
> probably have them
> delivered from Amazon on release day.
> 
> I do know other adult fans of Harry in my
> neighborhood, but though
> they like to read the books, they don't discuss them
> much.  I get all
> my HP discussion on the internet.  So, sorry, no
> interesting anecdotes!
> 
> > 
> > 6. In the Order of Phoenix Harry is much more
> mature 
=== message truncated ===


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From bboy_mn at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  5 22:18:43 2004
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 22:18:43 -0000
Subject: Way OT: Formating in messages.
Message-ID: <c2auc3+2pdk@eGroups.com>






From bboy_mn at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  5 22:25:07 2004
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 22:25:07 -0000
Subject: Way OT: Formating in messages.
Message-ID: <c2auo3+31lr@eGroups.com>

Does anyone know if Yahoo has change it's policy about text formating
in posted messages?

I have been to another Yahoo HP site, and many of the messages there
use different fonts, and have bold and colored text. In one case it
appeared that someone was even able to add a graphic to their post.
Normally, or at least in the past, all HTML formating was either
stripped from posts or completely ignored.

I don't recall any Yahoo policy announcement regarding this, but it
seems to be happening in the one groups, which I will add, is a
relatively new group.

Just as a test, I'm going to try and insert some formating into my
message.

<I>[I]Italics[/I]</I>

<B>[B]BOLD[/B]</B>

If it works, it sure could come in handy for emphasizing point in a
post, or making a greater distinction between various people being quoted.


Just checking.

bboy_mn





From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Fri Mar  5 22:33:14 2004
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 09:33:14 +1100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Way OT: Formating in messages.
In-Reply-To: <c2auo3+31lr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <40499ADA.5013.506D17@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2004 at 22:25, Steve wrote:

> If it works, it sure could come in handy for emphasizing point in a
> post, or making a greater distinction between various people being quoted.

Seriously, the use of html in e-mails is a really bad idea on any 
e-mail list because virtually every type of e-mail program used 
handles html formatting in a different way - so when you use it, it 
will often only appear the way you intend it to on systems which 
use exactly the same e-mail program and the same settings you use.

HTML should only be used in e-mails if you are sending the message 
to someone you know can handle such e-mails. Some e-mail programs 
simply cannot handle html, many many handle html badly.

Now, Yahoogroups *does* allow html formatting on lists if the list 
administrators want it - it's allowed it for years now - most 
admins turn it off, because it really is a very bad idea on any 
large group - but there hasn't been any change in policy, it's 
always been up to the list administrators.

At some stage in the future, when e-mail protocols are rewritten, 
it's probably that some rich text option will be written into those 
protocols and at that point, most e-mail programs may start 
handling things in the same way, and this might become practical - 
but it probably won't be html as it is pretty wasteful of 
bandwidth.




Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From siskiou at msn.com  Fri Mar  5 22:34:10 2004
From: siskiou at msn.com (Susanne)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:34:10 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Way OT: Formating in messages.
In-Reply-To: <c2auo3+31lr@eGroups.com>
References: <c2auo3+31lr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <34343627.20040305143410@msn.com>



Hi,

Friday, March 5, 2004, 2:25:07 PM, bboy_mn at yahoo.com wrote:

> Normally, or at least in the past, all HTML formating was either
> stripped from posts or completely ignored.


Doesn't it depend on the group, or what you chose as an
option, when you joined the group?

I have all my groups set to use no html, but could have
opted for the html version.

Then it depends, what the poster chooses.

-- 
Best regards,
 Susanne                           mailto:siskiou at msn.com





From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Sat Mar  6 00:13:17 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 00:13:17 -0000
Subject: Just sharing - thoughts on the transcript
In-Reply-To: <c28hs5+6231@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2b52t+plf6@eGroups.com>

Amy:

> *I* would like to gloat about her clear statement that Ginny has a 
> personality.  I think it was abundantly obvious in OoP even to 
> those who couldn't see it before then, but given that some 
> people will not abandon their conviction that Ginny has the 
> personality of a wet dishcloth, it's particularly satisfying to 
have 
> JKR point out the same evidence we Ginny-defenders have been 
> pointing out for years, e.g. that Ron says *back in CoS* that she 
> normally "never shuts up."

Not to mention those who claim that Ginny *had* the personality of a 
wet dishcloth until OOP, and then suddenly changed, and therefore 
must be a badly-written character.

> and who also wonders if JKR just makes up things like "the J is 
> for John" and "the P is for Patricia" on the spot, or actually has 
> this kind of trivia already recorded in the famed notebooks

Yes, I wonder that, too, though unless Jessica catches a touch of 
the Christopher Tolkiens, it seems we'll never know

David




From IAmLordCassandra at aol.com  Sat Mar  6 06:55:55 2004
From: IAmLordCassandra at aol.com (IAmLordCassandra at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 01:55:55 EST
Subject: Looking for a Link. HELP.
Message-ID: <9e.4fe2377.2d7acffb@aol.com>

A while back there was an art contest here that included a webpage with 
contestants' art work.  I lost it and can't seem to find it in the archives.  I 
think yahoo! is being evil and only searching chunks of messages at a time 
instead of the whole archive and it is driving me nuts.  Please help. 

~Cassie~ 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From erinellii at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  6 20:39:55 2004
From: erinellii at yahoo.com (Erin)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 20:39:55 -0000
Subject: Looking for a Link. HELP.
In-Reply-To: <9e.4fe2377.2d7acffb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <c2dcur+f9at@eGroups.com>

Cassie wrote:
> A while back there was an art contest here that included a webpage 
with 
> contestants' art work.  I lost it and can't seem to find it in the 
archives.  I 
> think yahoo! is being evil and only searching chunks of messages at 
a time 
> instead of the whole archive and it is driving me nuts.  Please 
help. 


Erin:

I don't know the message, but that *is* how the search works.  It 
starts with the most recent group of 500 or so and works backwards. 
You just have to keep pressing "Next" and it will search the next 
batch of messages.  Takes a few minutes, but it always works for me 
provided that I have entered the correct keywords.  Good luck.

Erin 





From naama_gat at hotmail.com  Sat Mar  6 22:09:04 2004
From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naamagatus)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 22:09:04 -0000
Subject: Information request - totaly, totaly OT
Message-ID: <c2di60+6m89@eGroups.com>


Hi,

I aplogise for taking space for this purely personal request, but I've spent the last two 
hours scouring the net for a clear definition. So, I thought - there are so many clever 
people here (only the best butter, you notice!), someone must know, and maybe they won't 
mind helping. 

SO - what the ... is an 'action system'?! It pops up in a lot of contexts, mainly I think 
in programming? But I need a general definition, since it's a term I ran against regarding 
Talcott Parsons (sociologist).  

Any help will be much appreciated!

Naama






From constancevigilance at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  7 17:46:48 2004
From: constancevigilance at yahoo.com (constancevigilance)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 17:46:48 -0000
Subject: Update on Haggridd
Message-ID: <c2fn68+e5gm@eGroups.com>

Our filking listmember, Haggridd (John Kusalavage) experienced a fall 
over two weeks ago and has been in the hospital ever since. He hasn't 
been well enough to go online much since that event, but is now able 
to receive phone calls. Anyone who wants to call and wish him well 
should contact me off list.

Constance Vigilance




From puju02 at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Mar  7 12:30:46 2004
From: puju02 at yahoo.co.uk (puju02)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 12:30:46 -0000
Subject: More book ideas for comic relief?
Message-ID: <c2f4lm+446g@eGroups.com>

Puja:
> The Hisory of Magic by Bathilda Bagshot is a book often mentioned 
in 
> all the HP series. Has JKR ever considered writing that as a book 
fr 
> background reading- like fantastic beasts and quidditch through the 
> ages that she has written for comic relief...we could get a lot of 
of 
> nagging questions answered in that about "life in the wizarding 
> world..before Harry was born"






From dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  7 21:36:44 2004
From: dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com (dudemom_2000)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 21:36:44 -0000
Subject: More book ideas for comic relief?
In-Reply-To: <c2f4lm+446g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2g4lc+9ebi@eGroups.com>

An excerpt from Hogwarts a History would be nice. I imagine a whole 
book would be impossible but maybe the intro and a few chapters 
could be published at a time.

Dudemom_2000

*****\(@@)/*****


--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "puju02" <puju02 at y...> wrote:
> Puja:
> > The Hisory of Magic by Bathilda Bagshot is a book often 
mentioned 
> in 
> > all the HP series. Has JKR ever considered writing that as a 
book 
> fr 
> > background reading- like fantastic beasts and quidditch through 
the 
> > ages that she has written for comic relief...we could get a lot 
of 
> of 
> > nagging questions answered in that about "life in the wizarding 
> > world..before Harry was born"




From coriolan at worldnet.att.net  Mon Mar  8 03:28:58 2004
From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 03:28:58 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter Filks: Goat-Page Winner
Message-ID: <c2gp9q+5s5t@eGroups.com>

Thanks to everyone who submitted entries in the Name That Goat-Page! 
contest. I decided to go with Amy Z's suggestion, Abe's Babes. You 
can now view this singular collection - graced with a new Red 
Scharlach illustration - at:

http://home.att.net/~coriolan/places/tincanalley.htm

(Since several people said they liked Tin Can Alley, and the "alley" 
motif is very Rowling-esque, I used it in the URL)

I also have on line my first HP fanfic musical, A Vast LEPHT-Wing 
Conspiracy, featuring Lord Voldemort, the Goblet of Fire, off-key 
dementors, the ever-so-evil! TBAYers, and tap-dancing Death Eaters. 
It's all done to Marvin Hammlisch's A Chorus Line.

http://home.att.net/~coriolan/musical/LEPHT-Wing.htm

   - CMC

HARRY POTTER FILKS 
http://home.att.net/~coriolan/hpfilks.htm 







From mphunt at sprintmail.com  Mon Mar  8 13:38:35 2004
From: mphunt at sprintmail.com (Tracy Hunt)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 13:38:35 -0000
Subject: More book ideas for comic relief?
In-Reply-To: <c2g4lc+9ebi@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2ht0r+tvbm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "dudemom_2000" 
<dudemom_2000 at y...> wrote:
> An excerpt from Hogwarts a History would be nice. I imagine a 
whole 
> book would be impossible but maybe the intro and a few chapters 
> could be published at a time.
> 
> Dudemom_2000
> 
> *****\(@@)/*****

Tcy:

Now don't get me wrong....I'm all for charity and I think JKR did a 
great thing for fans and Comic Relief with FBAWTFT and QTTA.  I also 
would love to see some more of these type of books by her - but if - 
and let me stress the IF - it doesn't delay book 6!  I know - call 
me a selfish s.o.b. ...go ahead...but I want the next book, darnit!




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Mon Mar  8 16:45:58 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 16:45:58 -0000
Subject: More book ideas for comic relief?
In-Reply-To: <c2f4lm+446g@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2i806+dcdr@eGroups.com>

> Puja:
> > The Hisory of Magic by Bathilda Bagshot is a book often 
mentioned 
> in 
> > all the HP series. Has JKR ever considered writing that as a 
book 
> fr 
> > background reading- like fantastic beasts and quidditch through 
the 
> > ages that she has written for comic relief...we could get a lot 
of 
> of 
> > nagging questions answered in that about "life in the wizarding 
> > world..before Harry was born"

Well, *the* book for inside info and innumerable red herrings would 
be Prefects Who Gained Power, the book Percy was reading in COS.  
Foreword by L Malfoy.

There are other possibilities, though, which would probably give us 
neither knowledge nor truth.  For example, Magical Me by Gilderoy 
Lockhart, or one of his many other works.

Or how about Stubby Boardman, The Pop-up Book?*  Or The Quibbler: A 
Half-Century of Fearless Investigative Reporting.

David

*Note: pop-up action accessible by magic only.




From kate.p.watson at lmco.com  Mon Mar  8 21:27:36 2004
From: kate.p.watson at lmco.com (kp0027)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 21:27:36 -0000
Subject: Nicolas Flamel in The Da Vinci Code
Message-ID: <c2iog8+372u@eGroups.com>

I've been a lurker here on the HPfGU list for a little while, but this
weekend I came across a coincidence that (to my knowledge) no one 
has pointed out on this board.  I was reading Dan Brown's The Da Vinci
Code (TDVC) when a familiar name appeared.  In TDVC, Brown lists 
the names of the Grand Masters of an acient secret society called the
Priory of Sion.  The essential purpose of this society was/is to 
guard the location of the holy grail, and in the preface of the 
book, Dan Brown states that what he writes about the society has been
researched and backed up.  Nicolas Flamel is listed as one of their 
Grand Masters.  We know that Nicolas Flamel was a real person.  I 
wonder if it was common knowledge that he was tied to this 
religious group?  Has anyone else out there read TDVC and noticed 
this cross reference?  Anyone have any thoughts about it?






From cristina_angelo at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  9 01:09:23 2004
From: cristina_angelo at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Cristina_Rebelo_=C2ngelo?=)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 02:09:23 +0100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Nicolas Flamel in The Da Vinci Code
In-Reply-To: <c2iog8+372u@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA0V0yEVLY906TVPQaP+YzycKAAAAQAAAA59zQnnYsV02ZsRCd67TG/AEAAAAA@yahoo.com>

From: kp0027 

I've been a lurker here on the HPfGU list for a little while, but this
weekend I came across a coincidence that (to my knowledge) no one 
has pointed out on this board.  I was reading Dan Brown's The Da Vinci
Code (TDVC) when a familiar name appeared.  In TDVC, Brown lists 
the names of the Grand Masters of an acient secret society called the
Priory of Sion.  The essential purpose of this society was/is to 
guard the location of the holy grail, and in the preface of the 
book, Dan Brown states that what he writes about the society has been
researched and backed up.  Nicolas Flamel is listed as one of their 
Grand Masters.  We know that Nicolas Flamel was a real person.  I 
wonder if it was common knowledge that he was tied to this 
religious group?  Has anyone else out there read TDVC and noticed 
this cross reference?  Anyone have any thoughts about it?

[Cristina Angelo] Sorry, didn't know where to snip without cutting out the
sense... 
 
I for one didn't know it, am still considering whether I will have time to
read TDVC. But Flamel was real (or should it be "is"?...), and searching for
immortality sounds like a good idea to know whoever is protecting the Holy
Graal is reliable... the nobody does the job as good as ourselves sort of
thing... 
 
(got me thinking about Indana Jones, where immortality was reached from
drinking from the Holy Graal itself, but with the itch of having to say put
in the cave... which Indy didn't do, renouncing immortality, I believe
because of love for his father... ah, love... recurrent...)
 
Interesting, though...Dumbeldore says Flamel decided to go on to that next
great adventure, and that the stone was destroyed. But what if... Dumbledore
himself... okay, he is a well organized mind... you know... well, mixing
Spielberg and Rowling doesn't work very well, and I'm not even sure what the
Holy Graal means (for me, it's one thing Jesus held, which is grand in
itself, but it's not like I believe it has magical powers greater than God
Who is right beside me in every thing I do), is it immortality, love... but
what if we mixed all this together and said: *that's* what's in that room in
the MoM? And Dumbledore, being a well organized mind and not wanting to
stick around too long, had it from Flamel and put it there?
 
Naaah. Too much mixing.
 
Anyway, just my thoughts :)




 
 
***
Cristina Rebelo ?ngelo
HYPERLINK "http://www.cangelo.novelcity.com/"www.cangelo.novelcity.com  /
ICQ 106255886 / Yahoo Messenger cristina_angelo / Fax (USA) 001-425-920-0285
HPGCv1 a31 e++ x+ -- z+++ A27 Rhp HPa S+++ Mo HaP++ HG++ RW++ AD++ RH+++ VK&
NhN& SB& DM--- O++ F sfD
 
Any attached file not mentioned in the body of the message may be a virus;
if present, delete it for the sake of your computer, and inform the sender.
Thank you.

"Quand on n'a que l'amour/ Pour tracer un chemin/ Et forcer le destin/ A
chaque carrefour
Quand on n'a que l'amour/ Pour parler aux canons/ Et rien qu'une chanson/
Pour coinvancre un tambour
Alors sans avoir rien/ Que la force d'aimer/ Nous aurons dans nos mains/
Amis le monde entier"
J.Brel 1956 
 
 


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.614 / Virus Database: 393 - Release Date: 05/03/2004
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From neonsister at ameritech.net  Tue Mar  9 02:42:58 2004
From: neonsister at ameritech.net (neonsister at ameritech.net)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 02:42:58 -0000
Subject: Nicolas Flamel in The Da Vinci Code
In-Reply-To: <c2iog8+372u@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2javi+sc7n@eGroups.com>

I just finished reading "The DaVinci Code" last week, and noticed Mr. 
Flamel's name mentioned, too.  

btw, if you got to www.danbrown.com there are some FAQ's and lots of 
photos of the settings and works of art mentioned in the book. 

Tracy




From dradamsapple at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  9 04:59:56 2004
From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 04:59:56 -0000
Subject: phone tones; totally OT at the moment
Message-ID: <c2jj0c+g59o@eGroups.com>

*Anna steps out from her invisibility cloak.  She really should get 
it washed as she's been wearing it for awhile.  Does anyone know how 
to clean an invisibility cloak?*


Ahem!!
Anyway,  I've been doing a lot of lurking lately and just wanted to 
ask if someone remembers that awhile back it was mentioned that we 
could download HP themes onto a cellphone.  I just got a new one 
(Samsung SGH-x427, digital) and would love to have an HP tone on it.  

Could someone point me to where I could do this?  I'm also pretty 
techno-stupid and would appreciate some guidance if I can't figure it 
out from the manual.

Thanks muchly.

Anna . . . 




From dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 10 01:13:58 2004
From: dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com (dudemom_2000)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 01:13:58 -0000
Subject: phone tones; totally OT at the moment
In-Reply-To: <c2jj0c+g59o@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2lq4m+dsik@eGroups.com>

I got a really great HP one from:

http://www.3gupload.com/

They have a nominal fee and you can download as much as you want. 
When my phone rings with the HP theme, everyone says, "I know that 
song!"  

Dudemom_2000

*****\(@@)/*****



--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "dradamsapple" 
<dradamsapple at y...> wrote:
> *Anna steps out from her invisibility cloak.  She really should 
get 
> it washed as she's been wearing it for awhile.  Does anyone know 
how 
> to clean an invisibility cloak?*
> 
> 
> Ahem!!
> Anyway,  I've been doing a lot of lurking lately and just wanted 
to 
> ask if someone remembers that awhile back it was mentioned that we 
> could download HP themes onto a cellphone.  I just got a new one 
> (Samsung SGH-x427, digital) and would love to have an HP tone on 
it.  
> 
> Could someone point me to where I could do this?  I'm also pretty 
> techno-stupid and would appreciate some guidance if I can't figure 
it 
> out from the manual.
> 
> Thanks muchly.
> 
> Anna . . .




From bumbledor at charter.net  Wed Mar 10 01:22:13 2004
From: bumbledor at charter.net (Bumbledor)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:22:13 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: phone tones; totally OT at the moment
References: <c2lq4m+dsik@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <001301c4063e$1e55b950$6401a8c0@mac>

yeah.. I have a few downloaded to my PC.. and I can upload them to my phone
via a speical program and phone cable.
If anyone needs good MIDI phone ringers, HP, I have 2.. Hogwarts theme and
GreatHall themes. Can upload them to the files section.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dudemom_2000" <dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com>
To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 8:13 PM
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: phone tones; totally OT at the moment


> I got a really great HP one from:
>
> http://www.3gupload.com/
>
> They have a nominal fee and you can download as much as you want.
> When my phone rings with the HP theme, everyone says, "I know that
> song!"
>
> Dudemom_2000
>
> *****\(@@)/*****
>
>
>
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "dradamsapple"
> <dradamsapple at y...> wrote:
> > *Anna steps out from her invisibility cloak.  She really should
> get
> > it washed as she's been wearing it for awhile.  Does anyone know
> how
> > to clean an invisibility cloak?*
> >
> >
> > Ahem!!
> > Anyway,  I've been doing a lot of lurking lately and just wanted
> to
> > ask if someone remembers that awhile back it was mentioned that we
> > could download HP themes onto a cellphone.  I just got a new one
> > (Samsung SGH-x427, digital) and would love to have an HP tone on
> it.
> >
> > Could someone point me to where I could do this?  I'm also pretty
> > techno-stupid and would appreciate some guidance if I can't figure
> it
> > out from the manual.
> >
> > Thanks muchly.
> >
> > Anna . . .
>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from
posts to which you're replying!
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>




From jillily3g at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 10 03:37:42 2004
From: jillily3g at yahoo.com (Beth)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 03:37:42 -0000
Subject: OT: Concert Etiquette
Message-ID: <c2m2i6+783k@eGroups.com>

In another stellar example of arts appreciation in our city, there 
was a choir festival tonight starring 4th and 5th graders (9-11 year 
olds) from local schools. Despite a printed insert outlining proper 
concert etiquette that was pointed out by the fine arts coordinator 
before the start of the concert, the auditorium buzzed with constant 
conversation and occasional cell phone use. I tried to ignore the 
murmuring and snickering behind me, but during an intermission 
before the guest choir (/during/ whose performance most of the 
audience left or found various reasons to wander the aisles), while 
the family talked themselves into convincing (to them) reasons to 
leave, I finally turned to them and asked, "So, the next Bears' game 
at your house?"

"No," the father answered, "my son's the fan."

"Oh," I shrugged, "I just thought it would be the perfect place for 
my family's next pointless conversation."

After a moment of stunned silence, the mother said, "I think she's 
being rude."

Yes, I was, and I wish I were more ashamed of it, but I'm not, so 
I'm asking: Is this common where you live? How do you/would you have 
handle(d) it?

Beth, who's Invisibility Cloak is not only dirty, but frayed!





From bumbledor at charter.net  Wed Mar 10 04:33:47 2004
From: bumbledor at charter.net (Bumbledor)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:33:47 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] OT: Concert Etiquette
References: <c2m2i6+783k@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <003801c40658$e13852b0$6401a8c0@mac>


No, Beth.. its quite common..
Sad state of affairs in this country, when even public manners have hit an
all time low.
I stood in line at a matinee movie last week and listend to 4 17 year olds
cuss their head off, one using the F word at least 8 times in 30 seconds.
Felt ashamed of his parents.
In my day any adult would have been free to put that boy in his proper
place. .But now, try it and you get thrown in jail.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Beth" <jillily3g at yahoo.com>


> In another stellar example of arts appreciation in our city, there
> was a choir festival tonight starring 4th and 5th graders (9-11 year
> olds) from local schools. Despite a printed insert outlining proper
> concert etiquette that was pointed out by the fine arts coordinator
> before the start of the concert, the auditorium buzzed with constant
> conversation and occasional cell phone use. I tried to ignore the
> murmuring and snickering behind me, but during an intermission
> before the guest choir (/during/ whose performance most of the
> audience left or found various reasons to wander the aisles), while
> the family talked themselves into convincing (to them) reasons to
> leave, I finally turned to them and asked, "So, the next Bears' game
> at your house?"
>
> "No," the father answered, "my son's the fan."
>
> "Oh," I shrugged, "I just thought it would be the perfect place for
> my family's next pointless conversation."
>
> After a moment of stunned silence, the mother said, "I think she's
> being rude."
>
> Yes, I was, and I wish I were more ashamed of it, but I'm not, so
> I'm asking: Is this common where you live? How do you/would you have
> handle(d) it?
>




From dradamsapple at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 10 05:48:10 2004
From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:48:10 -0000
Subject: phone tones; totally OT at the moment
In-Reply-To: <001301c4063e$1e55b950$6401a8c0@mac>
Message-ID: <c2ma6q+mrg4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Bumbledor" <bumbledor at c...> 
wrote:
> yeah.. I have a few downloaded to my PC.. and I can upload them to 
my phone
> via a speical program and phone cable.
> If anyone needs good MIDI phone ringers, HP, I have 2.. Hogwarts 
theme and
> GreatHall themes. Can upload them to the files section.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "dudemom_2000" <dudemom_2000 at y...>
> To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 8:13 PM
> Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: phone tones; totally OT at the moment
> 
> 
> > I got a really great HP one from:
> >
> > http://www.3gupload.com/
> >
> > They have a nominal fee and you can download as much as you want.
> > When my phone rings with the HP theme, everyone says, "I know that
> > song!"
> >
> > Dudemom_2000
> >
> > *****\(@@)/*****
> >
> >
> >


Thanks!  I'll probably give it a go sometime next week.  I'll let you 
know how I make out!  :)

Anna . . .




From mphunt at sprintmail.com  Wed Mar 10 14:09:12 2004
From: mphunt at sprintmail.com (Tracy Hunt)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:09:12 -0000
Subject: OT: Concert Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <c2m2i6+783k@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2n7i8+sqav@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Beth" <jillily3g at y...> wrote:
> In another stellar example of arts appreciation in our city, there 
> was a choir festival tonight starring 4th and 5th graders (9-11 
year 
> olds) from local schools. Despite a printed insert outlining proper 
> concert etiquette that was pointed out by the fine arts coordinator 
> before the start of the concert, the auditorium buzzed with 
constant 
> conversation and occasional cell phone use. I tried to ignore the 
> murmuring and snickering behind me, but during an intermission 
> before the guest choir (/during/ whose performance most of the 
> audience left or found various reasons to wander the aisles), while 
> the family talked themselves into convincing (to them) reasons to 
> leave, I finally turned to them and asked, "So, the next Bears' 
game 
> at your house?"
> 
> "No," the father answered, "my son's the fan."
> 
> "Oh," I shrugged, "I just thought it would be the perfect place for 
> my family's next pointless conversation."
> 
> After a moment of stunned silence, the mother said, "I think she's 
> being rude."
> 
> Yes, I was, and I wish I were more ashamed of it, but I'm not, so 
> I'm asking: Is this common where you live? How do you/would you 
have 
> handle(d) it?
> 
> Beth, who's Invisibility Cloak is not only dirty, but frayed!

Tcy:
You should know that I'm staring at my soapbox and fighting the urge 
to jump onto it and begin preaching to the choir.  

Sadly, you have just experienced something all too common everywhere 
in the States.  I can't speak for it's prevalence elsewhere, but it's 
all over the country, here.

I'll stay off the soapbox this time, but know that you are not alone 
in your disgust at this general lack of respect.

Tcy, who was never able to procure an Invisibility Cloak and so must 
lurk behind bushes, trees, large rocks and the like.




From puju02 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar 10 14:31:14 2004
From: puju02 at yahoo.co.uk (puju02)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:31:14 -0000
Subject: More book ideas for comic relief?
In-Reply-To: <c2ht0r+tvbm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2n8ri+eel8@eGroups.com>

> 
> Tcy:
I know - call me a selfish s.o.b. ...go ahead...but I want the next 
book, darnit!

Puja:
Ok, Tracy, you're selfish :-) LOL! But seriously, even I would not 
want any tiny comic reliefs as substitutes for the 6th book. Getting 
desperate for it. These books maybe could be after the 7 books, when 
she's killed harry (as she darly hints) and the fams still beg for 
more...





From puju02 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar 10 14:33:58 2004
From: puju02 at yahoo.co.uk (puju02)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:33:58 -0000
Subject: More book ideas for comic relief?
In-Reply-To: <c2i806+dcdr@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2n90m+lg5m@eGroups.com>

David wrote: There are other possibilities, though, which would 
probably give us 
> neither knowledge nor truth.  For example, Magical Me by Gilderoy 
> Lockhart, or one of his many other works.
> 
Puja: 
LOL! that would certainly be "comic" relief, David...a book written 
by Lockhart! I didn't think of that but it sure is an amusing thought.





From carolynwhite2 at aol.com  Wed Mar 10 16:46:58 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at aol.com (a_reader2003)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:46:58 -0000
Subject: Yahoo!Mort ..worst ever example
Message-ID: <c2ngq2+km3s@eGroups.com>

Just want to share my frustration with you all !

I posted a reply to the 'Something Small' thread - post 92553. I 
glanced at it today to see if anyone had replied to me, and joy, they 
had..lots and lots of replies.. 

Alas, when I looked at the titles, they were all replies to another 
thread entirely, 'Dudley's development'. Somehow, Yahoo had linked 
the two together, despite them being on different subjects with no 
overlap in content at all.

Carolyn
Going off to write her own reply to herself to see which thread it 
lands up in






From lhuntley at fandm.edu  Wed Mar 10 22:13:30 2004
From: lhuntley at fandm.edu (Laura Ingalls Huntley)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:13:30 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] OT: Concert Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <003801c40658$e13852b0$6401a8c0@mac>
Message-ID: <29782F33-72E0-11D8-BC58-000A95E29F3E@fandm.edu>

Bumbledor:
> No, Beth.. its quite common..
> Sad state of affairs in this country, when even public manners have 
> hit an
> all time low.
> I stood in line at a matinee movie last week and listend to 4 17 year 
> olds
> cuss their head off, one using the F word at least 8 times in 30 
> seconds.
> Felt ashamed of his parents.
> In my day any adult would have been free to put that boy in his proper
> place. .But now, try it and you get thrown in jail.

I hardly think you would get thrown in jail for telling a 17 year old 
to watch his mouth.  In fact, I can think of very little that would get 
you in trouble with anyone (aside from physical violence, that is). 
Surely you weren't talking about *smacking* the kid, were you?  'Cause, 
gee, *that's* just the epitome of civility, isn't it?

I think you should take a good, long look at the faults of your own 
generation before you run about condemning this one.  I seriously doubt 
that teens in "your day" didn't ever make mistakes or disappoint their 
parents or say/do rebellious things.  I'm sure you were *just* the 
model student/child, but you know what? Me too.  So you don't get to be 
the individual while you essentialize me and my peers.

You want to talk about the sad state of affairs in this country?  What 
about an older generation that's fighting equal rights for homosexual 
people tooth and claw?

What about a time when racism and sexism were still written into our 
laws?  What about the society in which only middle and upper class 
white boys had access to decent educations and jobs?  What about the 
culture that thought it was perfectly okay to call homosexuality a 
"disease"?

Laura (who thinks her generation is doing pretty okay in the grand 
scheme of things, thankyouverymuch.)

P.S. I hate talking in the theater too, in case anyone was wondering.  
^_~




From kkearney at students.miami.edu  Wed Mar 10 22:32:56 2004
From: kkearney at students.miami.edu (corinthum)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:32:56 -0000
Subject: OT: Concert Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <003801c40658$e13852b0$6401a8c0@mac>
Message-ID: <c2o52o+na21@eGroups.com>

Bumbldor wrote:

> No, Beth.. its quite common..
> Sad state of affairs in this country, when even public manners have 
hit an
> all time low.
> I stood in line at a matinee movie last week and listend to 4 17 
year olds
> cuss their head off, one using the F word at least 8 times in 30 
seconds.
> Felt ashamed of his parents.
> In my day any adult would have been free to put that boy in his 
proper
> place. .But now, try it and you get thrown in jail.


I don't find teens nearly so aggravating as adults.  Teens have the 
excuses of puberty, trying to fit in, etc.  Adults should know better.

I remember attemding one of my younger brothers' band concerts a few 
years ago, which was held before an HSA (private school PTA) 
meeting.  I was shocked at the number of adults who seemed to think 
that since they didn't have a child performing they could feel free 
to converse, without even attempting to keep their voices down.  
Extremely rude.  You'd think parents would have a little more respect 
for children (and I say this from the point of view of someone who 
doesn't really like kids  :) ).

-Corinth




From bumbledor at charter.net  Wed Mar 10 23:42:45 2004
From: bumbledor at charter.net (Bumbledor)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:42:45 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] OT: Concert Etiquette
References: <29782F33-72E0-11D8-BC58-000A95E29F3E@fandm.edu>
Message-ID: <003301c406f9$637b60f0$6401a8c0@mac>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Laura Ingalls Huntley" <lhuntley at fandm.edu>
To: <HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:13 PM
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] OT: Concert Etiquette


> Bumbledor:
> > No, Beth.. its quite common..
> > Sad state of affairs in this country, when even public manners have
> > hit an
> > all time low.
> > I stood in line at a matinee movie last week and listend to 4 17 year
> > olds
> > cuss their head off, one using the F word at least 8 times in 30
> > seconds.
> > Felt ashamed of his parents.
> > In my day any adult would have been free to put that boy in his proper
> > place. .But now, try it and you get thrown in jail.
>
> I hardly think you would get thrown in jail for telling a 17 year old
> to watch his mouth.  In fact, I can think of very little that would get
> you in trouble with anyone (aside from physical violence, that is).
> Surely you weren't talking about *smacking* the kid, were you?  'Cause,
> gee, *that's* just the epitome of civility, isn't it?

Bumbledor writes:
 When I said, "put in their place" I meant giving them a hand full of soap,
or the back of a hand. Thats what we got for swearing in public.

> I think you should take a good, long look at the faults of your own
> generation before you run about condemning this one.  I seriously doubt
> that teens in "your day" didn't ever make mistakes or disappoint their
> parents or say/do rebellious things.  I'm sure you were *just* the
> model student/child, but you know what? Me too.  So you don't get to be
> the individual while you essentialize me and my peers.

Bumbledore writes: Ohh, hit a nerve there, didn't I?


> You want to talk about the sad state of affairs in this country?  What
> about an older generation that's fighting equal rights for homosexual
> people tooth and claw?
Bumbledore writes:  I as a pagan Druid, believe some people are born
Homosexual. Others learn the behavior. I believe they have the same rights
as anyone else, and left alone, they can enjoy those rights. What bothers me
is when they demand rights above and beyond the avrage citizens.
But this is not a political email group, this is Harry Potter. So I will
drop this part of the conversation.

> What about a time when racism and sexism were still written into our
> laws?  What about the society in which only middle and upper class
> white boys had access to decent educations and jobs?  What about the
> culture that thought it was perfectly okay to call homosexuality a
> "disease"?
>
> Laura (who thinks her generation is doing pretty okay in the grand
> scheme of things, thankyouverymuch.)

Bumbledore writes:
And I wonder what generation you are talking about?  Gen X, or the one after
that?


>
> P.S. I hate talking in the theater too, in case anyone was wondering.
>




From silverthorne.dragon at verizon.net  Thu Mar 11 00:11:01 2004
From: silverthorne.dragon at verizon.net (Silverthorne)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:11:01 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] OT: Concert Etiquette
References: <29782F33-72E0-11D8-BC58-000A95E29F3E@fandm.edu>
Message-ID: <002201c406fd$5694c760$05030f04@dslverizon.net>

{Laura}
I hardly think you would get thrown in jail for telling a 17 year old
to watch his mouth.  In fact, I can think of very little that would get
you in trouble with anyone (aside from physical violence, that is).


{Silverthorne}
All it takes nowadays is for a child to swear that it was 'abused' for an
adult to end up on the 'wrong' side of the law. Even parents can be
penalized legally for giving their child a quick smack on the butt in public
if someone else sees it, and decides that they're witnessing 'child abuse'.
Hell, you can even be the 'wrong' (read: Wiccan for a friend of mine),
religion...and if the other locals around you decide 'that just ain't
right', at the very least they can call Child Services on you and have your
child(ren) removed from your home until an investigation is complete.

Not to mention the trouble you can get into with the parents for even
'daring' to look at thier child cross-eyed, no matter how obnoxious said
child is being. Having worked retail, picking up after kids whose parents do
not say so much as 'boo' to the 'adorable little tyke' that just pulled down
say, half a towel display and strewn it all over the place, believe
me--there's been times I've wanted to take matters into my own hands--both
with child AND careless parent. However, I can actually be taken in for
harassmen for it, thanks to how the newer laws are written...

{Laura}
Surely you weren't talking about *smacking* the kid, were you?  'Cause,
gee, *that's* just the epitome of civility, isn't it?


{Silverthorne}
You know, sometimes, people NEED a good smack to set them straight--talking
just doesn't do it, and if you let them go on about thier business it only
gets worse. I doubt that's what Bumbledore was getting at here though--as
stated above, it's more likely frustration at knowing that chances are
ANYTHING s/he had tried would have resulted in more of an upheaval--the
usual problem with trying to deal with 'other people' and thier 'rights' as
they see them today.

{Laura}

I think you should take a good, long look at the faults of your own
generation before you run about condemning this one.  I seriously doubt
that teens in "your day" didn't ever make mistakes or disappoint their
parents or say/do rebellious things.  I'm sure you were *just* the
model student/child, but you know what? Me too.  So you don't get to be
the individual while you essentialize me and my peers.


{Silverthorne}

*sigh* You know, this accusation has been leveled between generations for
centuries. My question is this--if you are NOT one of the kids who would
have dreamed of being so rude, why are you getting so upset from an
observation that does not apply to you? Really, getting upset at the 'older
folks' won't solve anything...and actaully only gives fuel to add to the
fire...

As for the point being made, I have to agree that the standards in the world
for how people should treat each other is sadly deteriorating. MOst peopel
in the yougner generations really have no use for 'old fashioned' and 'out
of date' rituals and polite ways of dealing with people--No formal "Hello,
Mr./Mrs/Ms Jones, no gentleman holding doors for woman (and doing otehr
things that, quite frankly, did more than just 'put a woman in her
place'---such gestrues were actaully a wsign of respect for woman--a respect
in the way of "I respect you enough to take the time to take care of you),
even something so simple as 'what fork to use first' on a set table. We've
losta ll that...and the rituals that went with it, baout the time I was in
highschool.

NOw we have people who are independant, but rarely think of others unless it
directly affects them and thier immedaite surroundings. No one has patience
for anything, because, by god, they should be allowed to have it all RIGHT
NOW. NO one else has the right to say anything 'negative' to anyone else,
even if that 'negative' thing is actaully correct, because, Oh My GOD!
You;ve just been put down. And, one of the most immediate results of this
is...for example...."young kids who chatter on incessantly during live
performances, interrupting everything around them  because, hey, what's the
big deal, I;m just talking, right?"

Granted, there are 'kids' (AND adults) whoi do this every generation...but
it';s becoming more and more common place as we get furtehr and further form
the old societal rituals that used to govern such behaivior. Way back then,
you did that, you could EXPECT someone to come down on you (and rightfully
so). Now-adays, someone 'dares' to put you in your place, and you cna sue
them for harassment. Don't laugh--it's been done.


{Laura}
 You want to talk about the sad state of affairs in this country?  What
about an older generation that's fighting equal rights for homosexual
people tooth and claw?

What about a time when racism and sexism were still written into our
laws?  What about the society in which only middle and upper class
white boys had access to decent educations and jobs?  What about the
culture that thought it was perfectly okay to call homosexuality a
"disease"?


{Silverthorne}

Okay, first point on Homosexuality--that is more of an over all social
problem--it is effected, not so much by generational age (Although in older
generations, gays had thier own, hidden society that rarely saw the light of
day in order to protect their 'members' from the harsh laws and reaction
abcks then), but by RELIGIOUS ideas. It has been 'out of vogue'  since the
days of Sodom and Gamorra in the bible, and since Rome turned Christian in
reality. This is not a recent event...in fact, the 'awareness' for gay
rights started in the late 1800's or so, and became 'visible' sometime
during the 60's, if I remember correctly. It;s been a social AND religiousd
taboo for sop long, using it as an example for the 'sins' of the older
genrations is unfair. Not to mention, I hear justa s many 'kids' bemoaning
(and condemning) homosexuality, marriages for them, the mere fact that they
are 'In sight' as much as any older generation. That has not changed...it
probably won't for some time to come, simply because 'social norm' is STILL
very firmly entrenched in monogamous, heterosexual relationships.

Secondly, you're discounting that my generation, and my father's (I doubt
there's many people on this list older than my dad, who was born in 1945),
were the generations that started climbing out of racism, homo-hate and "the
Glass Ceiling". Thise laws are being written out--slowly but surely--but
we're the ones who started it, not the current crop of 10-25 year olds.

As for the homosexual 'disease'--sorry, but you cannot condemn a genration
who did not understand about genetics, DNA, predispositon, brain shape, and
the gene code that makes you tend towards a specific sexual orientation. All
of these bits of information are only a decade or so old at best, and some
have not even been conclusively proven yet. You might as well get mad at the
Greeks for not knowing about all the planets in the sky, or any number of
folk loric healers throughout the ages who based thier cures on superstation
because they did not have scientific fact to go on. Hell, we're only NOW
coming to grips with the idea that life can and DOES exist on some other
plaanet than ours--and doesn't that just blow the centuries old,
'mainstream' ideas of our place in the universe VIA the various holy texts
(you know, where this is the 'only' world, created by God...and we are the
only intelligent beings, made in his image, the chosen ones etc)...?


{Laura}
 (who thinks her generation is doing pretty okay in the grand scheme of
things, thankyouverymuch.)

{Silverthorne}

Yes, you are, as a whole, doing well...for the most part...but you're stull
missing a lot of things that should have never been forgotten or shoved to
the wayside, including the ability to debate something like this discussion
without getting pissed off about it and taking it personally...^^

{Laura}

P.S. I hate talking in the theater too, in case anyone was wondering.

{Silverthorne}

Most polite people, broiught up with some idea of ettiquite do...including
myself. ^^.





From flitwicksman at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 11 01:08:05 2004
From: flitwicksman at yahoo.com (Brian)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 01:08:05 -0000
Subject: OT: Concert Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <29782F33-72E0-11D8-BC58-000A95E29F3E@fandm.edu>
Message-ID: <c2oe5l+e0v6@eGroups.com>



  I seem to remember a lot of my generation doing the "Woodstock 
chant" (I'm of "That 70's Show" generation): 

  "Gimme an F!"

  "Gimme a U!
  
  ..."

  It's always something yet we've managed to survive so far;-).

  Brian:-)



--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Laura Ingalls Huntley 
<lhuntley at f...> wrote:
> Bumbledor:
> > No, Beth.. its quite common..
> > Sad state of affairs in this country, when even public manners 
have 
> > hit an
> > all time low.
> > I stood in line at a matinee movie last week and listend to 4 17 
year 
> > olds
> > cuss their head off, one using the F word at least 8 times in 30 
> > seconds.
> > Felt ashamed of his parents.
> > In my day any adult would have been free to put that boy in his 
proper
> > place. .But now, try it and you get thrown in jail.
> 
> I hardly think you would get thrown in jail for telling a 17 year 
old 
> to watch his mouth.  In fact, I can think of very little that would 
get 
> you in trouble with anyone (aside from physical violence, that is). 
> Surely you weren't talking about *smacking* the kid, were 
you?  'Cause, 
> gee, *that's* just the epitome of civility, isn't it?
> 
> I think you should take a good, long look at the faults of your own 
> generation before you run about condemning this one.  I seriously 
doubt 
> that teens in "your day" didn't ever make mistakes or disappoint 
their 
> parents or say/do rebellious things.  I'm sure you were *just* the 
> model student/child, but you know what? Me too.  So you don't get 
to be 
> the individual while you essentialize me and my peers.
> 
> You want to talk about the sad state of affairs in this country?  
What 
> about an older generation that's fighting equal rights for 
homosexual 
> people tooth and claw?
> 
> What about a time when racism and sexism were still written into 
our 
> laws?  What about the society in which only middle and upper class 
> white boys had access to decent educations and jobs?  What about 
the 
> culture that thought it was perfectly okay to call homosexuality a 
> "disease"?
> 
> Laura (who thinks her generation is doing pretty okay in the grand 
> scheme of things, thankyouverymuch.)
> 
> P.S. I hate talking in the theater too, in case anyone was 
wondering.  
> ^_~




From silverthorne.dragon at verizon.net  Thu Mar 11 01:33:35 2004
From: silverthorne.dragon at verizon.net (Silverthorne)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:33:35 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: OT: Concert Etiquette
References: <c2oe5l+e0v6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <003101c40708$df4cc660$05030f04@dslverizon.net>

{Brian}

  I seem to remember a lot of my generation doing the "Woodstock
chant" (I'm of "That 70's Show" generation):

  "Gimme an F!"

  "Gimme a U!

  ..."

  It's always something yet we've managed to survive so far


{Silverthorne}

*chuckles* I remember that one, sort of....I was born in July, 1969....I
never could figure out what 'generation' that supposedly made me... I think
it was the first 'messed up' generation...lol....:P





From lhuntley at fandm.edu  Thu Mar 11 02:12:12 2004
From: lhuntley at fandm.edu (Laura Ingalls Huntley)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:12:12 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] OT: Concert Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <003301c406f9$637b60f0$6401a8c0@mac>
Message-ID: <824DD7A4-7301-11D8-BC58-000A95E29F3E@fandm.edu>


>> Bumbledor:
>>> No, Beth.. its quite common..
>>> Sad state of affairs in this country, when even public manners have
>>> hit an
>>> all time low.
>>> I stood in line at a matinee movie last week and listend to 4 17 year
>>> olds
>>> cuss their head off, one using the F word at least 8 times in 30
>>> seconds.
>>> Felt ashamed of his parents.
>>> In my day any adult would have been free to put that boy in his 
>>> proper
>>> place. .But now, try it and you get thrown in jail.

Laura (me):
>> I hardly think you would get thrown in jail for telling a 17 year old
>> to watch his mouth.  In fact, I can think of very little that would 
>> get
>> you in trouble with anyone (aside from physical violence, that is).
>> Surely you weren't talking about *smacking* the kid, were you?  
>> 'Cause,
>> gee, *that's* just the epitome of civility, isn't it?

Bumbledor:
>  When I said, "put in their place" I meant giving them a hand full of 
> soap,
> or the back of a hand. Thats what we got for swearing in public.
>

And I happen to think that's wrong, backwards, and (almost) barbaric.  
Funny how culture changes, isn't it?

Laura:
>> I think you should take a good, long look at the faults of your own
>> generation before you run about condemning this one.  I seriously 
>> doubt
>> that teens in "your day" didn't ever make mistakes or disappoint their
>> parents or say/do rebellious things.  I'm sure you were *just* the
>> model student/child, but you know what? Me too.  So you don't get to 
>> be
>> the individual while you essentialize me and my peers.
>
> Bumbledore writes: Ohh, hit a nerve there, didn't I?
>

Oh, yes you did -- and if you're looking for me to be ashamed of it, 
you're going to be disappointed, I'm afraid.  What you said was 
insulting, so I got insulted.  It's really a very logical series of 
events.

Laura (me):
>> You want to talk about the sad state of affairs in this country?  What
>> about an older generation that's fighting equal rights for homosexual
>> people tooth and claw?

> Bumbledore writes:  I as a pagan Druid, believe some people are born
> Homosexual. Others learn the behavior. I believe they have the same 
> rights
> as anyone else, and left alone, they can enjoy those rights. What 
> bothers me
> is when they demand rights above and beyond the avrage citizens.
> But this is not a political email group, this is Harry Potter. So I 
> will
> drop this part of the conversation.

This is exactly what I was talking about when I said that if you're 
going to make blanket statements about "the state of affairs in this 
country" and implicitly blame them on the cussing, disrespectful youth, 
*you* don't get to be an individual.  The fact is, the older generation 
is less "open" to homosexuality.  There are *reasons* for this 
(religion is one), I know.  I'm not trying to use that fact to condemn 
the older people as Bad and Evil.  But if you're going to accept that 
there are good "excuses" (if you will) for homophobia among the older 
population, then you will also have to accept that there are good 
excuses for (what you find to be) appalling behavior in teenagers.


>> Laura (who thinks her generation is doing pretty okay in the grand
>> scheme of things, thankyouverymuch.)
>
> Bumbledore writes:
> And I wonder what generation you are talking about?  Gen X, or the one 
> after
> that?

Well, I'm nineteen now, so I'm not really sure I fit into the Gen X 
category, but I wasn't really trying to speak for a particular, defined 
generation anyway.  I suppose if I wanted to get melodramatic about it, 
I could say I was speaking for *all* the generations that ever got 
slandered by the previous generations -- which is every generation 
*ever*, so . . .

. . . I was going to make a joke, but now I can't remember what it was. 
Hrm.

Laura (who just had creme brulee at Gibraltar, which left her with this 
lovely, dreamy feeling of World Peace.)




From lhuntley at fandm.edu  Thu Mar 11 04:14:25 2004
From: lhuntley at fandm.edu (Laura Ingalls Huntley)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:14:25 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] OT: Concert Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <002201c406fd$5694c760$05030f04@dslverizon.net>
Message-ID: <95627BFE-7312-11D8-BC58-000A95E29F3E@fandm.edu>


> {Silverthorne}
> All it takes nowadays is for a child to swear that it was 'abused' for 
> an
> adult to end up on the 'wrong' side of the law. Even parents can be
> penalized legally for giving their child a quick smack on the butt in 
> public
> if someone else sees it, and decides that they're witnessing 'child 
> abuse'.

Actually, what you've said is sort of an urban myth, much like the idea 
that men are *always* getting wrongly accused (and convicted) of rape 
by women who are just looking for revenge or attention or 
what-have-you.  I know several people who work in therapy and child 
services and they say it is almost *impossible* to convict an adult of 
child abuse.

The popular opinion that you've cited comes from (I think) the high 
publicity of a couple of really ridiculous cases (and no, I'm not 
trying to deny that there *aren't* any).  By and large, however, the 
law is in the favor of adults.

> Hell, you can even be the 'wrong' (read: Wiccan for a friend of mine),
> religion...and if the other locals around you decide 'that just ain't
> right', at the very least they can call Child Services on you and have 
> your
> child(ren) removed from your home until an investigation is complete.

Again, maybe it's just because I live in Downeast Maine (admittedly, 
we're all kind of stuck about ten or twenty years in the past), but 
from I've been told, it's really quite impossible to take kids away 
from their parents (at least in a permanent sense) -- even if they're 
convicted drug dealers and the like.

> {Laura}
> Surely you weren't talking about *smacking* the kid, were you?  'Cause,
> gee, *that's* just the epitome of civility, isn't it?
>
> {Silverthorne}
> You know, sometimes, people NEED a good smack to set them 
> straight--talking
> just doesn't do it, and if you let them go on about thier business it 
> only
> gets worse. I doubt that's what Bumbledore was getting at here 
> though--as
> stated above, it's more likely frustration at knowing that chances are
> ANYTHING s/he had tried would have resulted in more of an upheaval--the
> usual problem with trying to deal with 'other people' and thier 
> 'rights' as
> they see them today.

Yeah, but they don't need it from stranger.  I know there are really 
careless and irresponsible parents out there, but you really shouldn't 
touch other people's kids -- whether they "deserve" it or not, they not 
*yours*.

That said, in my experience, if Bumbledor had turned around and told 
the offending teens to watch their language (or even said something 
much stronger), NO ONE would have batted an eyelash.  No one.  Whether 
the teens would have listened to him/her would have depended on whether 
they were actually nice people (who were just conforming to the social 
norms in their highschool) or if they actually didn't care if they were 
bothering other people.

I didn't really hang out with the "bad" boys at my first high school 
(the ones that chewed tobacco, drank a lot of beer, swore constantly, 
and had no grasp of grammar).  However, I was friendly with them, and 
most of them were genuinely nice kids who were never given a chance or 
damn thing to hope or strive for.  I'm sure there are plenty of these 
kids in any generation you look at.


> {Laura}
> I think you should take a good, long look at the faults of your own
> generation before you run about condemning this one.  I seriously doubt
> that teens in "your day" didn't ever make mistakes or disappoint their
> parents or say/do rebellious things.  I'm sure you were *just* the
> model student/child, but you know what? Me too.  So you don't get to be
> the individual while you essentialize me and my peers.


> {Silverthorne}
> *sigh* You know, this accusation has been leveled between generations 
> for
> centuries.

If you're saying that different generations have always been unable to 
understand each other, that's a nice summary of my point.  ^_~

> My question is this--if you are NOT one of the kids who would
> have dreamed of being so rude, why are you getting so upset from an
> observation that does not apply to you? Really, getting upset at the 
> 'older
> folks' won't solve anything...and actaully only gives fuel to add to 
> the
> fire...

I'm getting so upset because I felt that Bumbledor *wasn't* just 
talking about that one kid in line at the Matinee.  He/she was talking 
about an entire culture of people he/she condemns because he/she 
doesn't understand.  By saying "in my day . . . etc. etc." he implied 
that there was something inherently wrong with the way my generation 
conducts itself today and that *his* generation's way was better.

Which I think you can probably agree with me is a completely subjective 
and unfair assumption.  I mean, who's to say *which* standard of 
etiquette is correct?  The one today, or the one from the 1970's, or 
the one from the 1950's?  What about the one from the 1820's?  Which 
culture are we talking about here?  American?  German?  Egyptian?

Just because Bumbledor can't *recognize* or understand a certain 
generation's way of expressing things like respect doesn't mean that 
they don't exist.


> As for the point being made, I have to agree that the standards in the 
> world
> for how people should treat each other is sadly deteriorating. MOst 
> peopel
> in the yougner generations really have no use for 'old fashioned' and 
> 'out
> of date' rituals and polite ways of dealing with people--No formal 
> "Hello,
> Mr./Mrs/Ms Jones, no gentleman holding doors for woman (and doing otehr
> things that, quite frankly, did more than just 'put a woman in her
> place'---such gestrues were actaully a wsign of respect for woman--a 
> respect
> in the way of "I respect you enough to take the time to take care of 
> you),
> even something so simple as 'what fork to use first' on a set table. 
> We've
> losta ll that...and the rituals that went with it, baout the time I 
> was in
> highschool.

You're right.  The idea that knowing which fork to use has anything to 
do with how you treat other people is frankly ridiculous to me.  That's 
not a matter of generation, it's a matter of class.  When you've never 
been to a restaurant with more than one fork, it's pretty hard to pick 
up that kind of information.

This is just a personal theory, but I think part of the problem is that 
the middle/upper class is getting much more exposure to people 
different than them than they did, say, 50 years ago.  Perhaps it's a 
function of our society growing in "awareness" for different 
classes/races/etc. or maybe it's because of things like satellite TV 
and the internet.  I *know* there were people out there in the 1950's 
(for example) that swore constantly.  I just don't think they were seen 
so much in the mainstream (or perhaps it's just that the older 
generations have a bit of a selective memory -- nostalgia is a v. 
strong phenomenon).  Honestly, I don't think things have changed so 
much between the values my mother and grandmother grew up with and the 
ones I was taught.  However, when I compare myself to the way the boys 
who dropped out in eighth grade acted, *that's* where I see the 
difference.

We have new rituals now, you know, and they work.  They mean something 
important to *us*, just like the old rituals mean something to you.

As for the holding doors thing -- I'm sort of spilt on this issue.  
First of all, I think it is Just Plain Manners to hold the door for 
*anyone* (regardless of age or sex) if you happen to get there first.  
Similarly, I firmly believe that the holder should be *thanked* for his 
or her services.  However, this idea that men must hold doors for women 
and that it *means* something special troubles me.  In your own words, 
it says, "I respect you enough to take the time to take care of you," 
which is all very well and nice on the surface, sure.  But what is it 
*really* saying?  That women need to be taken care of?  That men 
*shouldn't* be taken care of?  If a woman holds a door for a man is she 
emasculating him?  Is she crossing gender lines?  Is she wrong? I'm 
sure this sounds like femi-nazi spiel to you, but I'm seriously not 
trying to be radical, just logical.


> NOw we have people who are independant, but rarely think of others 
> unless it
> directly affects them and thier immedaite surroundings. No one has 
> patience
> for anything, because, by god, they should be allowed to have it all 
> RIGHT
> NOW.

Actually, I think Americans have been criticized for this "I must HAVE" 
attitude for *several* generations now.  Manifest Destiny, anyone?

> NO one else has the right to say anything 'negative' to anyone else,
> even if that 'negative' thing is actaully correct, because, Oh My GOD!
> You;ve just been put down.

See, when I compare this comment to the previous one, I think there's a 
contradiction.  I may be misinterpreting you, but it looks like your 
criticizing people for not thinking of others *and* thinking too much 
of others.  Again, I just think that perhaps many members of the older 
generation just can't understand the younger population's way of 
treating each other fairly.  When *I* look at the situation, I feel 
like we're actually *getting* somewhere in terms of respecting *all* 
people.  We're not just mouthing the words, we're making headway in the 
way the average person *thinks*.  Sure, we're nowhere close to the end 
yet, and in the interim we have the annoying and ubiquitous concept of 
"PC", but I feel as if people of non-mainstream 
culture/race/orientation have much more public voice and acceptance 
than they did just ten or twenty years ago.

> Granted, there are 'kids' (AND adults) whoi do this every 
> generation...but
> it';s becoming more and more common place as we get furtehr and 
> further form
> the old societal rituals that used to govern such behaivior. Way back 
> then,
> you did that, you could EXPECT someone to come down on you (and 
> rightfully
> so). Now-adays, someone 'dares' to put you in your place, and you cna 
> sue
> them for harassment. Don't laugh--it's been done.

It's been done, sure, and it got a lot of press.  But that not the way 
the world really works.  That's like trying to take the woman who sued 
McDonald's for giving her hot coffee as an example of the assertion 
that the common person is out to screw the big corporations and 
*succeeding*.


> {Laura}
>  You want to talk about the sad state of affairs in this country?  What
> about an older generation that's fighting equal rights for homosexual
> people tooth and claw?
>
> What about a time when racism and sexism were still written into our
> laws?  What about the society in which only middle and upper class
> white boys had access to decent educations and jobs?  What about the
> culture that thought it was perfectly okay to call homosexuality a
> "disease"?
>
> {Silverthorne}
>
> Okay, first point on Homosexuality--that is more of an over all social
> problem--it is effected, not so much by generational age (Although in 
> older
> generations, gays had thier own, hidden society that rarely saw the 
> light of
> day in order to protect their 'members' from the harsh laws and 
> reaction
> abcks then), but by RELIGIOUS ideas. It has been 'out of vogue'  since 
> the
> days of Sodom and Gamorra in the bible, and since Rome turned 
> Christian in
> reality. This is not a recent event...in fact, the 'awareness' for gay
> rights started in the late 1800's or so, and became 'visible' sometime
> during the 60's, if I remember correctly. It;s been a social AND 
> religiousd
> taboo for sop long, using it as an example for the 'sins' of the older
> genrations is unfair.

Well, that was kind of my point.  It *is* pretty unfair to judge the 
older generations by today's standards.  Likewise, it's also pretty 
unfair to judge the younger generations by the older generation's 
standards.

> Not to mention, I hear justa s many 'kids' bemoaning
> (and condemning) homosexuality, marriages for them, the mere fact that 
> they
> are 'In sight' as much as any older generation. That has not 
> changed...it
> probably won't for some time to come, simply because 'social norm' is 
> STILL
> very firmly entrenched in monogamous, heterosexual relationships.

That's true, but I disagree that most kids are as *set* against 
homosexuality as you make them out to be.  Kids in high school are 
likely to be mouthing their parent's views or talking out of fear of 
the unknown -- that is, they may not have been exposed to many 
homosexual people, they haven't formed opinions of their own, they are 
trying to explicitly conform to the "social norm" you spoke of.  
However, more and more you see that (esp. among high school girls) gay 
men are getting *way* more positive attention than ever before.  If we 
want to bring up personal examples, at my second high school 
homosexuality and bisexuality (among both boys and girls) was almost 
*trendy*.  Once you start looking at the average college student, you 
don't see a lot that will say anything strong against gay men and women 
-- in fact, most are pretty vehemently pro-gay rights (but that's 
college kids for you -- ever the activists, we are ^_~).

> Secondly, you're discounting that my generation, and my father's (I 
> doubt
> there's many people on this list older than my dad, who was born in 
> 1945),
> were the generations that started climbing out of racism, homo-hate 
> and "the
> Glass Ceiling". Thise laws are being written out--slowly but 
> surely--but
> we're the ones who started it, not the current crop of 10-25 year olds.

As I explained before, I wasn't trying to discount that.  I know that 
the progress we see today is built upon the progress made by the 
generations that came before.  For example, my grandmother (who is v. 
open-minded for her age) believes that all races should be considered 
equal in the law.  On the other hand, she disapproves of interracial 
marriage and has a *very* difficult time with homosexuality (I think 
she *knows*, deep down, that she shouldn't be against it, but the 
values she grew up with are too deeply ingrained in her).  In 
comparison, my mother is pretty much as open-minded about race as 
anyone else and she supports gay rights, but if I were to tell her I 
was bisexual, she'd be very upset.

My point was, the values and customs of one generation may seem alien 
and *wrong* to another generation (whether that generation is older 
*or* younger), but really *neither* group of people or their way of 
life is *necessarily* wrong or bad.

> As for the homosexual 'disease'--sorry, but you cannot condemn a 
> genration
> who did not understand about genetics, DNA, predispositon, brain 
> shape, and
> the gene code that makes you tend towards a specific sexual 
> orientation.

Well, they could have viewed it as a legitimate life choice (although, 
I know why, socially, they couldn't).  That wasn't my point at all.

> All of these bits of information are only a decade or so old at best, 
> and some
> have not even been conclusively proven yet. You might as well get mad 
> at the
> Greeks for not knowing about all the planets in the sky <SNIP>

But could you blame them for persecuting those who came up with new 
scientific discoveries that didn't fit the accepted view of the 
universe? (I'm not saying you can, mind you, it's just a question.)

I think a more apt (although more extreme) example would be whether one 
could blame Aristotle for writing hundreds of "scientific truths" about 
women (e.g. they are "deformed" men) that were used as a tool for 
oppressing them for centuries.  Turns out, I do blame him.  I suppose 
that's a very irrational, emotional response, but I just can't help it. 
  I think the man was a bastard.

Er . . . just to avoid confusion, the above was not meant to be a 
parallel for my feelings for any of the generations we've been 
discussing -- I just got sort of side-tracked by one of my favorite 
rants.  Sorry.

> Hell, we're only NOW
> coming to grips with the idea that life can and DOES exist on some 
> other
> plaanet than ours--and doesn't that just blow the centuries old,
> 'mainstream' ideas of our place in the universe VIA the various holy 
> texts
> (you know, where this is the 'only' world, created by God...and we are 
> the
> only intelligent beings, made in his image, the chosen ones etc)...?

Woah, really?  They've found life somewhere else?  The last I heard, 
they'd *thought* they'd found life, but it turned out that their 
samples were contaminated.

> {Laura}
>  (who thinks her generation is doing pretty okay in the grand scheme of
> things, thankyouverymuch.)
>
> {Silverthorne}
> Yes, you are, as a whole, doing well...for the most part...but you're 
> stull
> missing a lot of things that should have never been forgotten or 
> shoved to
> the wayside, including the ability to debate something like this 
> discussion
> without getting pissed off about it and taking it personally...^^

Oh, no.  That's just me, honest.

Actually, despite the fact that I use it quite often myself, I think 
the argument that people in debates shouldn't "take things personally" 
is really kind of ridiculous and pretty much always a cop-out.  I mean, 
under what circumstances does it usually get used?  When one party says 
something that is implicitly insulting to another, and then that other 
party gets insulted.  Well, (to use an outdated expression from another 
maligned generation) DUH.  But then the first party can come back with 
the ever popular "don't take it personally", which is sort of insulting 
in and of itself, as it implies a lack of emotional control on the 
second party's part.  Thus, the second party feels compelled to 
retaliate, and then . . .

You see where I'm going with this, yes?  One big ridiculous chain 
reaction.  For instance, my first reaction to your comment was to 
insult you right back.  In fact, I probably would have, except I'm 
terribly at toeing the line between *openly* insulting and implicitly 
snide, and therefore I would have got Howlered for my troubles.

Who says young people have no sense of consequences? ^_~

As it is, I trust that you were being facetious when you drew a 
connection between my generation and my tendency to get excited in an 
argument.  As I understand it, vehemency is sort of a trait that *most* 
young people share -- and we were all young once, weren't we?  Of 
course, on the other side of the spectrum, my generation has got plenty 
of people telling us we're too apathetic.  Can't win for losing, can we?

Laura




From kcawte at ntlworld.com  Thu Mar 11 12:32:47 2004
From: kcawte at ntlworld.com (Kathryn Cawte)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 04:32:47 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] OT: Concert Etiquette
References: <95627BFE-7312-11D8-BC58-000A95E29F3E@fandm.edu>
Message-ID: <001701c40764$f6b9c3f0$bcde6251@kathryn>

Laura
> Actually, what you've said is sort of an urban myth, much like the idea
> that men are *always* getting wrongly accused (and convicted) of rape
> by women who are just looking for revenge or attention or
> what-have-you.  I know several people who work in therapy and child
> services and they say it is almost *impossible* to convict an adult of
> child abuse.
>

K

Well I don't know what it's like in the States but in the UK it's not all
that difficult to have your kids taken away and fostered (or worse
adopted) - the standard of proof is much lower than in an actual criminal
case and if the court actually admits it's made a mistake? Well then of
course the children's welfare is paramount - which means that if they've
been living with a foster family for a long time or were very young when
they were taken away then you won't get them back - and if they've been
adopted then it's impossible to get them back, as myriad families are now
finding out in the UK. Any cases where controversial medical evidence is the
only evidence is now being reconsidered (except where the children have been
adopted) - in some cases the evidence went something like this 'we admit we
don't know how the child was harmed/died, therefore we're going to assume it
was child abuse unless someone can prover otherwise' .... I know that's
somewhat different from smacking a child but since the standard of proof is
the main problem it does illustrate the point quite well.

Fortunately smacking is legal in the UK so it's more difficult to lose the
children over reasonable chastisement

It is however *bloody* difficult to get anyone convicted of rape as a recent
set of figures giving the percentage of reported cases prosecuted (very low)
and the percentage of those leading to a conviction (also incredibly low)
showed.


Laura

> That said, in my experience, if Bumbledor had turned around and told
> the offending teens to watch their language (or even said something
> much stronger), NO ONE would have batted an eyelash.  No one.  Whether
> the teens would have listened to him/her would have depended on whether
> they were actually nice people (who were just conforming to the social
> norms in their highschool) or if they actually didn't care if they were
> bothering other people.
>

K

In mine he/she would have been verbally abused by the teens and possibly
their parents (assuming the parents were with them which is probably
unlikely)

K





From bumbledor at charter.net  Thu Mar 11 04:35:03 2004
From: bumbledor at charter.net (Bumbledor)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:35:03 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] OT: Concert Etiquette
References: <95627BFE-7312-11D8-BC58-000A95E29F3E@fandm.edu>
Message-ID: <003001c40722$39336ad0$6401a8c0@mac>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Laura Ingalls Huntley" <lhuntley at fandm.edu>


>
> > {Silverthorne}
> > All it takes nowadays is for a child to swear that it was 'abused' for
> > an
> > adult to end up on the 'wrong' side of the law. Even parents can be
> > penalized legally for giving their child a quick smack on the butt in
> > public
> > if someone else sees it, and decides that they're witnessing 'child
> > abuse'.
>
> Actually, what you've said is sort of an urban myth,

Myth my blooming arse! I saw a parent give a child a good swat in D&W store
and within 8 mins, cops were there intergating her and berating her.  And I
told the cops the kid was lucky he wasn't mine, cause it would have been 2
swats!

>  I know several people who work in therapy and child
> services and they say it is almost *impossible* to convict an adult of
> child abuse.

What State/County?  Maybe you are right - convicting of child abuse, but
long before that, around here, the state comes in and kidnaps the kids from
their parents, on mere ASSUMPTION that something may be going wrong. Ive
seen it happen too often.


>
> Again, maybe it's just because I live in Downeast Maine (admittedly,
> we're all kind of stuck about ten or twenty years in the past),
Ah, that explains why you seem to be comming from lala-land.
Nothing at all like the big cities of Detroit, L.A., Chicago, or NYC.

>but
> from I've been told,

What you have been told, and what is REALITY are two different things.
And the problem here, is that you have NO idea what reality is for those who
live in the bigger cities. Swat a kid there, and they can and sometimes do,
get taken
away right then and there.






From jillily3g at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 11 04:36:31 2004
From: jillily3g at yahoo.com (Beth)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 04:36:31 -0000
Subject: R-E-S-P-E-C-T [Was: Re: OT: Concert Etiquette]
In-Reply-To: <c2m2i6+783k@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2oqcf+bmld@eGroups.com>

Ummm... perhaps I should apologize for posting a vent that started 
such a heated conversation? 

I would like to point out that it was an entire rude /family/ that 
sat behind me last night, making snide comments that "wouldn't 
disturb anyone. We were talking quietly." I have been appalled at 
the behavior of adults, who use such concerts as a venue to catch up 
with their friends while their children sing their hearts out on 
stage.

As far as the vulgar language is concerned, it does seem that 
younger people are freer with shocking language--in any generation. 
Isn't that a joke in _The Music Man_? That girl who keeps 
exclaiming "Ye gods!" (or is it Egad!? It's been a while since I've 
seen it.) Interestingly, within the last decade a law regarding 
cursing still on the state of Michigan's books was challenged by a 
man who was charged with using obscenities in front of women and 
children (among other things. I think the police were really annoyed 
with the guy!). I guess it fell by the wayside along with the 
spitting on the sidewalk prohibitions.

I'm not thrilled when a group of teenagers laces their conversation 
with obscenities within earshot of my children, but if I never 
wanted them to hear them, I'd have to keep their father from ever 
doing home repair jobs. I'm not thrilled to have the older group of 
sewing ladies at my church make a comment about "I just wonder how 
their children will look" regarding so-called "mixed marriages", so 
I just firmly say, "Beautiful" and look for opportunities to teach 
her a better way of thinking. I know I could have used last night's 
fiasco as a teaching moment and not lost my top, but fortunately, my 
family wasn't around (my daughter was singing and the others were 
elsewhere) when I had a weak moment.

My main concern, and I think it was expressed by many regarding 
different issues, is how do we show respect toward one another? I 
didn't particularly enjoy the "guest choir" that so many walked out 
on last night, but it would have been rude to leave, especially 
since they made a one hour trip to perform for us, gratis. I may not 
agree with the points-of-view of each person here, but I appreciate 
the opportunity for us to discuss them (or lurk and read them as is 
often my way) and I hope we can do it in an attitude of mutual 
respect. 

Beth, who always wanted to get a conversation started and is now 
reminded "be careful what you wish for"




From jillily3g at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 11 05:38:35 2004
From: jillily3g at yahoo.com (Beth)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:38:35 -0000
Subject: G.R.-centric [Was: Re: OT: Concert Etiquette]
In-Reply-To: <003001c40722$39336ad0$6401a8c0@mac>
Message-ID: <c2ou0r+8e77@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Bumbledor" <bumbledor at c...> 
wrote:

> > > {Silverthorne}
> > > All it takes nowadays is for a child to swear that it 
was 'abused' for an adult to end up on the 'wrong' side of the law. 
Even parents can be penalized legally for giving their child a quick 
smack on the butt inpublic if someone else sees it, and decides that 
they're witnessing 'childabuse'.

Laura:
> > Actually, what you've said is sort of an urban myth,

Bumbledor: 
> Myth my blooming arse! I saw a parent give a child a good swat in 
D&W store and within 8 mins, cops were there intergating her and 
berating her.  And I told the cops the kid was lucky he wasn't mine, 
cause it would have been 2 swats!

[snip]
Laura:
> > Again, maybe it's just because I live in Downeast Maine 
(admittedly,
> > we're all kind of stuck about ten or twenty years in the past),
Bumbledor:
> Ah, that explains why you seem to be comming from lala-land.
> Nothing at all like the big cities of Detroit, L.A., Chicago, or 
NYC.
> 
Laura:
> >but
> > from I've been told,

Bumbledor: 
> What you have been told, and what is REALITY are two different 
things. And the problem here, is that you have NO idea what reality 
is for those who live in the bigger cities. Swat a kid there, and 
they can and sometimes do, get taken away right then and there.

Beth: Just curious as you continue to get heated and use ALL CAPS 
(you do realize you are shouting, don't you?): Are you claiming that 
D&W is located in large city? Because from my experience, and I'll 
bet I'm one of the few on this board who would recognize that 
obscure store name, West Michigan has one largish city with a 
multitude of suburbs. It may think it's big, but it still has fewer 
than 200,000 people. And having moved away from the area, I've since 
been told by a woman who used to work in legal aid there that the 
area _had_ one of the highest incest rates in the country. Perhaps 
there is a reason authorities are removing children quickly these 
days?




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Thu Mar 11 15:12:24 2004
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:12:24 -0000
Subject: St. Mungo's reference
Message-ID: <c2pvko+v2g4@eGroups.com>

I came across these lines in the old Walter Scott tale "The Two 
Drovers"
----
"Robin Oig is no the man to leave any of them without tying St. 
Mungo's knot on their tails, and that will put to her speed the best 
witch that ever flew over Dimayet upon a broomstick."

It may not be indifferent for the reader to know that the Highland 
cattle are peculiarly liable to be *taken*, or infected, by spells
and  witchcraft; which judicious people guard against by knitting 
knots of peculiar complexity on the tuft of hair which terminates 
the animal's tail.
----

In the same story Scott also quotes an old ballad, Duke Upon 
Duke
----
Were ever two such loving friends--
How could they disagree?
----
Which sounds a bit like the Sorting Hat's song in OOP. Duke 
upon Duke is a comic mock heroic ballad, but Two Drovers is a 
tragic tale of vengeance and murder. Which makes me wonder, 
what did happen to old Salazar? Did Godric do him in?

Pippin




From coriolan at worldnet.att.net  Thu Mar 11 17:13:50 2004
From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:13:50 -0000
Subject: Nicolas Flamel in The Da Vinci Code
In-Reply-To: <c2iog8+372u@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2q6oe+s5vf@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "kp0027" <kate.p.watson at l...> 
wrote:
> I've been a lurker here on the HPfGU list for a little while, but 
this
> weekend I came across a coincidence that (to my knowledge) no one 
> has pointed out on this board.  I was reading Dan Brown's The Da 
Vinci
> Code (TDVC) when a familiar name appeared.  In TDVC, Brown lists 
> the names of the Grand Masters of an acient secret society called 
the
> Priory of Sion.  The essential purpose of this society was/is to 
> guard the location of the holy grail, and in the preface of the 
> book, Dan Brown states that what he writes about the society has 
been
> researched and backed up. 

The Priory of Sion appears to be another one of those Conspiracy 
Theories that spring from the same types who rail on about Masons or 
the Trilateral Commission. 

http://www.alchemylab.com/flameltestament.htm

This excellent online biography on Flamel fails to mention the Priory:

http://www.alchemylab.com/flamel.htm#Nicholas%20Flamel's%20Journey

  - CMC (whatever you do, don't get me started on what Brown says 
about Constantine)









From coriolan at worldnet.att.net  Thu Mar 11 17:18:56 2004
From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:18:56 -0000
Subject: Nicolas Flamel in The Da Vinci Code
In-Reply-To: <c2q6oe+s5vf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2q720+r0l4@eGroups.com>

Oops - wrong link on the Priory of Sion - this is the right story:
 
http://www.alpheus.org/html/articles/esoteric_history/richardson1.html

   - CMC 




From paulag5777 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 11 17:38:03 2004
From: paulag5777 at yahoo.com (Paula Gaon)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:38:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What's the atmosphere like at fan conventions
Message-ID: <20040311173803.77389.qmail@web40010.mail.yahoo.com>

11March04
 
Heidi wrote:
 
Heidi:

"Well, Nimbus wasn't a fancon, technically and in practice. While
 there were certain "fan" elements,..." 


David wrote:
"I did get the impression that people did enjoy it, though..."
 
Paula now:
Thanks Heidi and David for answering.  Sorry that it's taken me so long to post again--enthralled in earning a living. 
 
Really hoping to somehow be able to swing it,
~Paula Gaon
 
 



Please visit

Beautiful and Fun Things: 

See the Magical Creatures at:

http://www.cafeshops.com/bft/254718

    "...Weeping may endure for a night, but joy comes in the morning."









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From spin01 at aol.com  Thu Mar 11 21:27:58 2004
From: spin01 at aol.com (spinelli372003)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:27:58 -0000
Subject: the Green Flame
Message-ID: <c2qlku+f78r@eGroups.com>

Hi all,  First time writing on this board although I do write on one 
of the others.  Wanted to ask if anyone had heard anything about the 
6th book being called "The Green Flame and being released in June.  
My daughter found a website that was saying it was a title that was 
being considered and that the book would be out in June.  I am 
imagining 2005 but she is hoping for this one lol.  Any info would be 
appreciated.  Thanks
Sherry





From silmariel at telefonica.net  Fri Mar 12 00:26:00 2004
From: silmariel at telefonica.net (silmariel)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 01:26:00 +0100
Subject: Can you help me?
Message-ID: <200403120126.00056.silmariel@telefonica.net>


You know I usually lurk here more than write, but, well, since the attack this 
morning in Madrid I've not been able to smile to say the least. I don't want 
to enter in details, it's not that I've suffered a personal loss, but I'm 
quite shocked, having half of my family living there.

Will you please send me a link to favourite fanfiction, essays, humor hp 
links? Something to cheer me up? I don't want to low the cheerful tone of 
this list, so please write to me off list if you consider it adequate.

Than you,

Silmariel




From rrsryan at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 12 04:10:42 2004
From: rrsryan at yahoo.com (rrsryan)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 04:10:42 -0000
Subject: the Green Flame
In-Reply-To: <c2qlku+f78r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2rd82+329h@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "spinelli372003" 
<spin01 at a...> wrote:
> Hi all,  First time writing on this board although I do write on 
one 
> of the others.  Wanted to ask if anyone had heard anything about 
the 
> 6th book being called "The Green Flame and being released in June.  
> My daughter found a website that was saying it was a title that was 
> being considered and that the book would be out in June.  I am 
> imagining 2005 but she is hoping for this one lol.  Any info would 
be 
> appreciated.  Thanks
> Sherry

ryan:
On a recent interview that particular question was asked and she 
made no remarks. Except that the book was at the publishers. I have 
know idea how long it takes a book to be finalized though.





From katydid3500 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 12 15:31:37 2004
From: katydid3500 at yahoo.com (Kathryn Wolber)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:31:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: the Green Flame
In-Reply-To: <c2rd82+329h@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040312153137.72009.qmail@web40506.mail.yahoo.com>


--- rrsryan <rrsryan at yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com,
> "spinelli372003" 
> <spin01 at a...> wrote:
> > Hi all,  First time writing on this board although
> I do write on 
> one 
> > of the others.  Wanted to ask if anyone had heard
> anything about 
> the 
> > 6th book being called "The Green Flame and being
> released in June.  
> > My daughter found a website that was saying it was
> a title that was 
> > being considered and that the book would be out in
> June.  I am 
> > imagining 2005 but she is hoping for this one lol.
>  Any info would 
> be 
> > appreciated.  Thanks
> > Sherry
> 
> ryan:
> On a recent interview that particular question was
> asked and she 
> made no remarks. Except that the book was at the
> publishers. I have 
> know idea how long it takes a book to be finalized
> though.
> 
When did she say that? In the webchat she said that
she's enjoying writing it and that the release date is
up to the publishers. But that doesn't mean the
publisher's have it.  I believe she just means that
she doens't make the ultimate decision about when it's
released. Since she seems to be Scholastic and
Bloomsbury's main money maker, I'm sure she has some
say...but they're companies and they make business
decisions that have nothing to do with when we want
the book to come out. So that's all I think she meant.

As for the Green Flame Torch, that name's been
floating around for quite a while and Warner Bros has
it copywritten but I think it's been pretty much
decided that it's not going to be a book title. I
believe (I could be wrong) that JKR said at some point
that no one else knows the titles of the future books.
So don't count on knowing until Scholastic and
Bloomsbury make the announcement.
Also, don't remember where, but I read somewhere about
Green Flame Torch possibly being a working title for
Goblet of Fire, but who knows. Anyway, sorry to
disappoint you, but unless they're planning on
surprising us with the 6th book...don't expect it by
the end of the summer.

~Katie

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From kempermentor at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 12 18:13:07 2004
From: kempermentor at yahoo.com (kemper mentor)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:13:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A youth and the HP books
In-Reply-To: <20040312153137.72009.qmail@web40506.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040312181307.3666.qmail@web41605.mail.yahoo.com>


Last fall I finally got a youth to read year one.  This has taken nearly four years.  It's not that he can't read; it's that he is an intellectual snob.  It took him a month, with school, to finish the series.  

When I first met this youth, he had the biggest authority problem and referred to the female of our species as "b__ch."  I fostered and mentored this youth.  Within a year or so, his definition and use of the word changed which isn't to say that the word was dropped from his lexicon.  The authority problem took longer to shift.  He was once against all authority but now is against oppressive authority.  He is my favorite activist.  

It has been nearly 9 years since we entered each others lives.  He turns 22 today.

I work directly in partnership with at-risk youth.  13 years in this field, interacting with several west coast states, in rural and metropolitan cities.  Never has there been any where that Family Services (or whatever it is called from state to state) or the Police just go and pick up youth who were recently smacked in a store.  I'm a mandatory reporter (if a youth reports any kind of abuse [except emotional], I am to file a report with family services).  If anything, police and family services are   s  l  o  w   to act.

-Kemper

Who finds displeasure when the audience claps through movements, or when they don't turn off a cell phone, or worse when they answer it.  

Who recommends that people get involved with youth instead of bitch about them.  

Who encourages eligible youth to vote.  

Who enjoys Potter over and over again.



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From alshainofthenorth at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Mar 13 00:12:07 2004
From: alshainofthenorth at yahoo.co.uk (alshainofthenorth)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 00:12:07 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter and the Freedom of Religion -- longish
Message-ID: <c2tjkn+g9ps@eGroups.com>

Hello all,
(I never thought I'd try to start a discussion about HP and 
Christianity, but sometimes even the best of us must eat our words. 
Non-believer and recovered fundamentalist, for the record.)
 
Visitors of The Leaky Cauldron website have probably read about the 
Swedish private school where the principal prohibited the HP books, 
stating that they were incompatible with Christian values (not such a 
big deal considering that the same thing happens regularly in the US 
Bible belt, but it's the first time it's happened in the higly 
secularised Scandinavian countries.)
 
The evening paper Expressen picked up on this in an article:
http://www.expressen.se/index.jsp?a=113266 (translated at TLC)

Next day there was another story with comments from a child 
psychologist, a lawyer from the central school administration and a 
Lutheran bishop:
http://www.expressen.se/index.jsp?a=113473

Translation of the relevant parts:
Child psychologist: "I find it difficult to believe that children 
take what's written in the books as reality. Prohibition is the wrong 
way to go."
Lawyer: "A private school like this has to live up to the same 
criteria of comprehensiveness and objectivity as a municipal school. 
The value base as well as the goals should be the same.... I can 
imagine that there are Potter books in the municipal school, and then 
they should be allowed in the private school as well." 
Bishop: "Prohibiting the Potter books is over-reaction. It seems 
strange."

And the NEXT day, Expressen bought HP books for all the pupils in the 
school. http://www.expressen.se/index.jsp?a=114329
Two twelve-year-olds were interviewed, stating that the prohibition 
was ridiculous and that it was odd that HP was prohibited and not 
e.g. Lord of the Rings. The chairperson of the foundation, which runs 
the school, thought children get nightmares from the books and 
stressed again that Christianity and sorcery are incompatible.

And that was just the background. The main reason why I'm posting at 
all comes here: Considering that freedom to exercise your religion is 
one of the basic rights in a democratic society, does anyone think 
that Expressen went too far in making an issue of this? I do -- sure 
I think that it's a stupid idea to throw the HP books out of school 
libraries, but starting witch hunts and blowing things out of their 
proportions is pretty stupid too. At some point it seems to cross 
over into pointing fingers (and Swedish media are extremely sensitive 
at this time, because of the murder of a pastor's wife in a sectarian 
Pentecostal congregation barely a month ago. The family's nanny and 
the pastor are main suspects, and the media has been digging for all 
it's worth. Jumping onto the Christian-bashing bandwagon seems to be 
the fashionable thing right now.) 

Does it say explicitly somewhere that it's a basic human right to 
have Potter books in your school library? A principal is within his 
or her rights to make even stupid decisions concerning the running of 
their school (I'm sure that everyone has stories to tell about 
principals making bad decisions). At least one of the arguments was 
sound: Some children get nightmares from reading Harry Potter; and 
she did make this decision in good faith. 

If anyone's interested in a discussion along these lines, I hope we 
can keep our arguments civil and to the point. Discussions about 
politics or religion touch deep nerves.  





From lhuntley at fandm.edu  Sat Mar 13 00:54:30 2004
From: lhuntley at fandm.edu (Laura Ingalls Huntley)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:54:30 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Harry Potter and the Freedom of Religion -- longish
In-Reply-To: <c2tjkn+g9ps@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <FC5A0215-7488-11D8-BC58-000A95E29F3E@fandm.edu>

alshainofthenorth:
<SNIP>
> And that was just the background. The main reason why I'm posting at
> all comes here: Considering that freedom to exercise your religion is
> one of the basic rights in a democratic society, does anyone think
> that Expressen went too far in making an issue of this?
<SNIP>

Considering  that freedom to exercise your religion is one of the basic 
rights in a democratic society, I think the Expressen has a very good 
point.

The administration in this case are clearly allowing their own 
religious beliefs affect the lives of their students, which is (IMO) 
clearly the student's parent's job. ^_~

Granted, we are talking about a private school, so (presumably) the 
parents have *chosen* to send their kids there, and institution is not 
receiving government funding for their religious discrimination. So, 
technically, I see your point.  However, ethically, I'm with the 
Expressen.

> Does it say explicitly somewhere that it's a basic human right to
> have Potter books in your school library? A principal is within his
> or her rights to make even stupid decisions concerning the running of
> their school (I'm sure that everyone has stories to tell about
> principals making bad decisions). At least one of the arguments was
> sound: Some children get nightmares from reading Harry Potter;

Well, plenty of children get nightmares from a lot of really random 
things.  Anyway, is this a boarding school?  If not, I don't see how 
what gives children nightmares is any of the principal's business.

> and she did make this decision in good faith.

Maybe.  She could have made it to get publicity.  Or, she could have 
made it because she *personally* disliked the books and was in a 
position to deny them to people in her power.  We really can't know.

Laura




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 13 01:44:06 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 01:44:06 -0000
Subject: Harry Potter and the Freedom of Religion -- longish
In-Reply-To: <c2tjkn+g9ps@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2tp16+sviv@eGroups.com>

Okay, I'll bite.  Naturally, I buy HP for *my* children and read them
to them as requested (even though they're perfectly capable of reading
HP to themselves and do so).  But --

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "alshainofthenorth"
<alshainofthenorth at y...> wrote:

<snip>
> Next day there was another story with comments from a child 
> psychologist, a lawyer from the central school administration and a 
> Lutheran bishop:
> http://www.expressen.se/index.jsp?a=113473
> 
> Translation of the relevant parts:
<snip>
> Lawyer: "A private school like this has to live up to the same 
> criteria of comprehensiveness and objectivity as a municipal school. 
> The value base as well as the goals should be the same.... I can 
> imagine that there are Potter books in the municipal school, and then 
> they should be allowed in the private school as well." 
<snip>

Okay, *this* statement is worse than the original banning of the
books.  Surely one of the main points of a private religious school is
that the "value base" of the municipal school is not *quite* what the
parents had in mind?

<snip>
> And that was just the background. The main reason why I'm posting at 
> all comes here: Considering that freedom to exercise your religion is 
> one of the basic rights in a democratic society, does anyone think 
> that Expressen went too far in making an issue of this?
<snip>

> Does it say explicitly somewhere that it's a basic human right to 
> have Potter books in your school library? A principal is within his 
> or her rights to make even stupid decisions concerning the running of 
> their school (I'm sure that everyone has stories to tell about 
> principals making bad decisions).

You are probably right.  It is a stupid decision that probably won't
hurt anyone.  I'm sure any of those children who wants to read HP will
be able to do so, even if the newspaper hadn't bought them copies. 
Actually, of all the books missing from that library, either because
the principal doesn't agree with them or because they can't afford to
buy every book, the HP ones will be the easiest for the children to
get elsewhere.

> At least one of the arguments was 
> sound: Some children get nightmares from reading Harry Potter; and 
> she did make this decision in good faith.

Actually, I don't think she made the decision in good faith, if the
original Leaky Cauldron linked article was accurate, because she's
quoted as saying she hadn't actually read any of the books, she'd only
thumbed through some of the pages.  And I used to have nightmares
about the drain in the bathroom sink (honest!), but I've never heard
of an HP book giving anyone nightmares.

I guess what I think is it's all right for a principal to try to have
appropriate books in the school library, especially if it's a
specialised school (such as a religious one) which is supposed to be
based on certain values.  The parents are of course always free to
broaden their own children's reading horizons.  However, I think this
particular principal did not make a very thoughtful decision at all.

Annemehr
a Catholic with children in a Catholic school
 





From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Sat Mar 13 04:50:33 2004
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:50:33 +1100
Subject: Jaw on floor in stunned silence
In-Reply-To: <c2tp16+sviv@eGroups.com>
References: <c2tjkn+g9ps@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <40532DC9.11304.497EE60@localhost>

*stunned*

*still stunned*

http://www.potterpuppetpals.com/index.html

*stunned. Cat getting concerned.*

*still stunned. Cat loses interest.*


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From dradamsapple at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 13 05:10:04 2004
From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:10:04 -0000
Subject: Jaw on floor in stunned silence
In-Reply-To: <40532DC9.11304.497EE60@localhost>
Message-ID: <c2u53c+3q80@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun Hately" 
<drednort at a...> wrote:
> *stunned*
> 
> *still stunned*
> 
> http://www.potterpuppetpals.com/index.html
> 
> *stunned. Cat getting concerned.*
> 
> *still stunned. Cat loses interest.*
> 
> 

 
Yes, Shaun, this is quite amusing, isn't it?

Uh, that look on your face IS amusement, isn't it???

Anna  . . .(who loves the group hug ;] )




From katydid3500 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 13 05:13:54 2004
From: katydid3500 at yahoo.com (Kathryn Wolber)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:13:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Jaw on floor in stunned silence
In-Reply-To: <c2u53c+3q80@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040313051354.77158.qmail@web40514.mail.yahoo.com>


--- dradamsapple <dradamsapple at yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun
> Hately" 
> <drednort at a...> wrote:
> > *stunned*
> > 
> > *still stunned*
> > 
> > http://www.potterpuppetpals.com/index.html
> > 
> > *stunned. Cat getting concerned.*
> > 
> > *still stunned. Cat loses interest.*
> > 
> > 
> 
>  
> Yes, Shaun, this is quite amusing, isn't it?
> 
> Uh, that look on your face IS amusement, isn't it???
> 
> Anna  . . .(who loves the group hug ;] )

That puppet show totally cracks me up! If I weren't a
poor college student I'd definitely buy the shirt that
has Ron and goes "Bother!". I particularly enjoy in
the Voldemort one when the kids go running away and
then Ron runs up to Voldy and yells "Bother!" and then
runs away again. Teehee:)

~Katie, who should be working on a take home midterm
but would much rather play on the internet;)

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From puju02 at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Mar 13 05:54:30 2004
From: puju02 at yahoo.co.uk (puju02)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:54:30 -0000
Subject: The Chance for NEW CANON- more questions
In-Reply-To: <c0e7pn+9rmt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2u7mm+2ive@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "entropymail" 
<entropymail at y...> wrote:
regarding Lily's protection
> of Harry and Harry's scar.  Was the scar actually a result of
> Voldemort's AK curse, or was it something else? Was it a result of
> Lily's protection charm? 
> 
Puja:
JKR did say in the online chat that the shape of the scar isn't the 
only thing special about it. But reading PS, I should say that the 
scar was a result of Lily's protection. Coz rememeber that no one 
survives the AK curse. That means there is a power greater than that 
curse. That would be Lily's protection. So the scar would be mainly 
the result of the protection Lily gave.
JKR also hitned in the chat that we may well hear more news about teh 
scar in thye forthcoming books. (she does guard her plots!) Remember 
the romour that the last word in book 7 is 'scar' :-)




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 13 21:49:34 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:49:34 -0000
Subject: Jaw on floor in stunned silence
In-Reply-To: <20040313051354.77158.qmail@web40514.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c2vvle+ip3r@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Kathryn Wolber
<katydid3500 at y...> wrote:
> 
> --- dradamsapple <dradamsapple at y...> wrote:
> > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun
> > Hately" 
> > <drednort at a...> wrote:
> > > *stunned*
> > > 
> > > *still stunned*
> > > 
> > > http://www.potterpuppetpals.com/index.html
> > > 
> > > *stunned. Cat getting concerned.*
> > > 
> > > *still stunned. Cat loses interest.*
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> >  
> > Yes, Shaun, this is quite amusing, isn't it?
> > 
> > Uh, that look on your face IS amusement, isn't it???
> > 
> > Anna  . . .(who loves the group hug ;] )
> 
> That puppet show totally cracks me up! If I weren't a
> poor college student I'd definitely buy the shirt that
> has Ron and goes "Bother!". I particularly enjoy in
> the Voldemort one when the kids go running away and
> then Ron runs up to Voldy and yells "Bother!" and then
> runs away again. Teehee:)
> 
> ~Katie, who should be working on a take home midterm
> but would much rather play on the internet;)

Oh, that's a shame!  College students *should* have shirts like that!
 Do you have a birthday coming up or anything?

I especially like how Snape is obviously being played by a Squidward
puppet in a wig and gown.  XD

Annemehr





From katydid3500 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 13 22:14:10 2004
From: katydid3500 at yahoo.com (Kathryn Wolber)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:14:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Jaw on floor in stunned silence
In-Reply-To: <c2vvle+ip3r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040313221410.6994.qmail@web40503.mail.yahoo.com>


--- annemehr <annemehr at yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Kathryn
> Wolber
> <katydid3500 at y...> wrote:
> > 
> > --- dradamsapple <dradamsapple at y...> wrote:
> > > --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun
> > > Hately" 
> > > <drednort at a...> wrote:
> > > > *stunned*
> > > > 
> > > > *still stunned*
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.potterpuppetpals.com/index.html
> > > > 
> > > > *stunned. Cat getting concerned.*
> > > > 
> > > > *still stunned. Cat loses interest.*
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > >  
> > > Yes, Shaun, this is quite amusing, isn't it?
> > > 
> > > Uh, that look on your face IS amusement, isn't
> it???
> > > 
> > > Anna  . . .(who loves the group hug ;] )
> > 
> > That puppet show totally cracks me up! If I
> weren't a
> > poor college student I'd definitely buy the shirt
> that
> > has Ron and goes "Bother!". I particularly enjoy
> in
> > the Voldemort one when the kids go running away
> and
> > then Ron runs up to Voldy and yells "Bother!" and
> then
> > runs away again. Teehee:)
> > 
> > ~Katie, who should be working on a take home
> midterm
> > but would much rather play on the internet;)
> 
> Oh, that's a shame!  College students *should* have
> shirts like that!
>  Do you have a birthday coming up or anything?
> 
> I especially like how Snape is obviously being
> played by a Squidward
> puppet in a wig and gown.  XD
> 
> Annemehr

Nope, no birthday until July...maybe it can be a tax
return gift to myself. But actually speaking of
T-shirts, has anyone else seen the HP shirts Hot Topic
has? Cause I just remembered that the "Bother" shirt
is not at the top of my list of Harry shirts to buy.
Here's the link to the Hot Topic shirts for anyone who
hasn't seen them. http://tinyurl.com/36xhg

~Katie, who thinkgs it would be funny to wear a shirt
that says "MUGGLE"




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com



From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Sat Mar 13 22:18:30 2004
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 09:18:30 +1100
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Jaw on floor in stunned silence
In-Reply-To: <c2u53c+3q80@eGroups.com>
References: <40532DC9.11304.497EE60@localhost>
Message-ID: <40542366.2968.53D98E@localhost>

On 13 Mar 2004 at 5:10, dradamsapple wrote:

> Yes, Shaun, this is quite amusing, isn't it?
> 
> Uh, that look on your face IS amusement, isn't it???

Oh, yes, it is.

A few things have also become clear.

Like last week, when I was in a school for teaching practice, why a 
group of 11 year olds suddenly started buffeting me saying 'Bother, 
Bother, Bother...'

I guess I'm more Snapish than I thought.

I kind of regret poisoning them all now (-8



Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 13 22:24:05 2004
From: dudemom_2000 at yahoo.com (dudemom_2000)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:24:05 -0000
Subject: Jaw on floor in stunned silence
In-Reply-To: <20040313221410.6994.qmail@web40503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c301m5+pob2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Kathryn Wolber 
<katydid3500 at y...> wrote:
> 
>Big Snip> 
> > > ~Katie, who should be working on a take home
> > midterm
> > > but would much rather play on the internet;)
> > 
> > Oh, that's a shame!  College students *should* have
> > shirts like that!
> >  Do you have a birthday coming up or anything?
> > 
> > I especially like how Snape is obviously being
> > played by a Squidward
> > puppet in a wig and gown.  XD
> > 
> > Annemehr
> 
> Nope, no birthday until July...maybe it can be a tax
> return gift to myself. But actually speaking of
> T-shirts, has anyone else seen the HP shirts Hot Topic
> has? Cause I just remembered that the "Bother" shirt
> is not at the top of my list of Harry shirts to buy.
> Here's the link to the Hot Topic shirts for anyone who
> hasn't seen them. http://tinyurl.com/36xhg
> 
> ~Katie, who thinkgs it would be funny to wear a shirt
> that says "MUGGLE"
> 
*****\(@@)/*****

I ordered the Muggle, Seeker and Sirius Black one (I already have 
the wanted poster one) and just got them yesterday. Too bad they 
didn't come Thursday so I could wear the Muggle one to Friday dress 
down day! They are just great and I hope to collect them all! They 
are very nicely done - good quality and official ones too - they 
have the Harry Potter WB logo on the tags.

Dudemom_2000

*****\(@@)/*****






From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Sun Mar 14 00:48:01 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:48:01 -0000
Subject: Jaw on floor in stunned silence
In-Reply-To: <c2vvle+ip3r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c30a41+bqf5@eGroups.com>

Annemehr wrote:

> I especially like how Snape is obviously being played by a 
Squidward
> puppet in a wig and gown.  XD

I liked the cartoons too, but I have a question: what is a Squidward 
puppet?

David




From silverthorne.dragon at verizon.net  Sun Mar 14 00:56:00 2004
From: silverthorne.dragon at verizon.net (Silverthorne)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:56:00 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Jaw on floor in stunned silence
References: <20040313221410.6994.qmail@web40503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000401c4095f$1fe28ae0$05030f04@dslverizon.net>

Okay...I'm scarred for life.

In a good way...

I think...


*Goes to share this *evil* link with her friends...^^;*

Thanks for the laugh!

Silverthorne


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From jillily3g at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 14 01:00:15 2004
From: jillily3g at yahoo.com (Beth)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 01:00:15 -0000
Subject: Squidward [Was: Re: Jaw on floor in stunned silence]
In-Reply-To: <c30a41+bqf5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c30aqv+a054@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "davewitley" 
<dfrankiswork at n...> wrote:
> Annemehr wrote:
> 
> > I especially like how Snape is obviously being played by a 
> Squidward
> > puppet in a wig and gown.  XD
> 
> I liked the cartoons too, but I have a question: what is a 
Squidward 
> puppet?
> 
> David

The only Squidward I've heard of is from the cartoon "SpongeBob 
Square Pants" - a show my kids (and husband) love and one more 
reason I'm glad we no longer have cable. 

Beth




From mkeller01 at alltel.net  Sun Mar 14 01:24:18 2004
From: mkeller01 at alltel.net (jksunflower2002)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 01:24:18 -0000
Subject: Jaw on floor in stunned silence
In-Reply-To: <40532DC9.11304.497EE60@localhost>
Message-ID: <c30c82+3egc@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun Hately" 
<drednort at a...> wrote:
> *stunned*
> 
> *still stunned*
> 
> http://www.potterpuppetpals.com/index.html
> 
> *stunned. Cat getting concerned.*
> 
> *still stunned. Cat loses interest.*


I know the feeling:

http://www.eviltrailmix.com/snapesexy.swf 

There just aren't words......


Toad (I feel unclean)






From neonsister at ameritech.net  Sun Mar 14 03:19:17 2004
From: neonsister at ameritech.net (neonsister at ameritech.net)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 03:19:17 -0000
Subject: Jaw on floor in stunned silence
In-Reply-To: <c2vvle+ip3r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c30ivl+glgc@eGroups.com>

Ooh, this is fun!  And t-shirts are available! :-)

I'm not a supporter of the Vampire!Snape theory, but he kind of 
resembles one in these puppet shows. Hmmmm...

Tracy




From CoyotesChild at charter.net  Sun Mar 14 04:44:48 2004
From: CoyotesChild at charter.net (Iggy McSnurd)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:44:48 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: Jaw on floor in stunned silence
In-Reply-To: <c30a41+bqf5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000001c4097f$17e16300$6501a8c0@Einstein>

> 
> Annemehr wrote:
> 
> > I especially like how Snape is obviously being played by a
> Squidward
> > puppet in a wig and gown.  XD
> 
> I liked the cartoons too, but I have a question: what is a Squidward
> puppet?
> 
> David
> 

Iggy here:

Squidward id Spongebob Squarepants's next door neighbor.  He always
sounds a bit moody and depressed... and has a big nose.

Iggy McSnurd

"Oh boy!  It's NAKED TIME!!!"


 





From dradamsapple at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 14 06:20:53 2004
From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 06:20:53 -0000
Subject: Jaw on floor in stunned silence;AGAIN
In-Reply-To: <c30c82+3egc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c30tk5+t57f@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "jksunflower2002" 
<mkeller01 at a...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun Hately" 
> <drednort at a...> wrote:
> > *stunned*
> > 
> > *still stunned*
> > 
> > http://www.potterpuppetpals.com/index.html
> > 
> > *stunned. Cat getting concerned.*
> > 
> > *still stunned. Cat loses interest.*
> 
> 
> I know the feeling:
> 
> http://www.eviltrailmix.com/snapesexy.swf 
> 
> There just aren't words......
> 
> 
> Toad (I feel unclean)


*oh. *my. *G-d.

Anna . . .




From mphunt at sprintmail.com  Sun Mar 14 14:02:40 2004
From: mphunt at sprintmail.com (Tracy Hunt)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:02:40 -0000
Subject: SexySnape was: Re: Jaw on floor in stunned silence
In-Reply-To: <c30c82+3egc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c31om0+vne2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "jksunflower2002" 
<mkeller01 at a...> wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun Hately" 
> <drednort at a...> wrote:
> > *stunned*
> > 
> > *still stunned*
> > 
> > http://www.potterpuppetpals.com/index.html
> > 
> > *stunned. Cat getting concerned.*
> > 
> > *still stunned. Cat loses interest.*
> 
> 
> I know the feeling:
> 
> http://www.eviltrailmix.com/snapesexy.swf 
> 
> There just aren't words......
> 
> 
> Toad (I feel unclean)

Tcy:

BWAAaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!! I love it!!!!!!  You've made my day!  My 
youngest daughter just had a sleepover (1 5 year old and 2 6 year 
olds for 26 hours!)...I needed that link sooooooo badly.  Thank you.






From Malady579 at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 14 18:26:45 2004
From: Malady579 at hotmail.com (Melody)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:26:45 -0000
Subject: SexySnape   was: Jaw on floor
In-Reply-To: <c31om0+vne2@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c32855+8b31@eGroups.com>

First link given:
>http://www.potterpuppetpals.com/index.html

I had seen these puppets in someone's live journal icon, but had no
idea there was a cartoon on them.  That was *adorable.*  "What the? 
hey, quit that."  Hehehehe.  I wish there was a way I could save it to
my hard drive.  Anyone know a way or is it now illegal too?


And the second link of a HP fan with too much free time:
> http://www.eviltrailmix.com/snapesexy.swf 

Hehe.  You just have to love the pairing of fandom and the internet. 
Makes the world a brighter, friendlier place.  There is just hope for
humanity when they create things like this.  

Take a noble, stately performance of Snape and turn what few movements
he makes into a techno dancing, cat walk pouting character that still
seems somewhat strangly in character.  ;)


Melody





From risako at nexusanime.com  Mon Mar 15 02:13:12 2004
From: risako at nexusanime.com (Melissa McCarthy)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:13:12 -0400
Subject: Saving Flash animations to hard drive WAS: SexySnape
References: <c32855+8b31@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <016201c40a33$11e1d840$234fd718@LAPTOP>

Melody:
> I had seen these puppets in someone's live journal icon, but had no
> idea there was a cartoon on them.  That was *adorable.*  "What the?
> hey, quit that."  Hehehehe.  I wish there was a way I could save it to
> my hard drive.  Anyone know a way or is it now illegal too?

I'm not overly certain about the legality of it, but there is a way to save
it!  Go to http://www.unhsolutions.net/ and download the Flash Saving
Plugin.  You'll see it listed in the little blue bar on the left.  I also
recommend getting the SWF Opener, because it's an easy way to watch the
Flash thingies that you've saved.  And I also-also recommend the IE Privacy
Keeper, which is completely irrelevant to the question but is a really nifty
program.

Melissa, who has added the Ron-Bother T-shirt to her list of Christmas
presents to beg for


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.594 / Virus Database: 377 - Release Date: 24/02/2004




From cristina_angelo at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 15 11:44:15 2004
From: cristina_angelo at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Cristina_Rebelo_=C2ngelo?=)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:44:15 +0100
Subject: 3 minutes
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA0V0yEVLY906TVPQaP+YzycKAAAAQAAAAEripJAqdrkOte6PoHIpbrQEAAAAA@yahoo.com>

Sorry to be so OT.
 
Europe has just observed three minutes silence for the victims of last
Thursday's bombings in Madrid.
 
Every first Wednesday of the month, french air strike sirens go on at noon
and then at half past, in memory of World War II, a "we do not forget" sign.
Today is Monday. At 12H02 they wailed again. I can not tell how it made me
feel...
 
Portuguese, living in Paris, a very good friend having left Madrid recently,
away from my family and friends, I'm living this with a weird international
feeling. I'm 31 years old. When I was born, my country was at war, a distant
african war of which we seldom really talk about. Then there was a threat of
civil war of which we never talk about. A terrorist organization we have
more or less forgotten about. Portugal is quite peaceful. I have no memories
of terror, of fear, even if my parents do. I was in the streets for the
freedom of East Timor, five years ago, what we said was portuguese territory
- but half a world away. I can not remember what I did not live, I can not
promise to forget what I did not live. 
 
But I can promise not to forget being in the streets clothed in white for
East Timor. I can promise not to forget these sirens for Madrid. I don't
know whether you've heard them. If you didn't, I can tell you they made a
mark...
 
 
 
***
Cristina Rebelo ?ngelo
 
Any attached file not mentioned in the body of the message may be a virus;
if present, delete it for the sake of your computer, and inform the sender.
Thank you.

"Quand on n'a que l'amour/ Pour tracer un chemin/ Et forcer le destin/ A
chaque carrefour
Quand on n'a que l'amour/ Pour parler aux canons/ Et rien qu'une chanson/
Pour coinvancre un tambour
Alors sans avoir rien/ Que la force d'aimer/ Nous aurons dans nos mains/
Amis le monde entier"
J.Brel 1956 
 
 
 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From olivierfouquet2000 at yahoo.fr  Mon Mar 15 12:38:13 2004
From: olivierfouquet2000 at yahoo.fr (olivierfouquet2000)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:38:13 -0000
Subject: 3 minutes
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA0V0yEVLY906TVPQaP+YzycKAAAAQAAAAEripJAqdrkOte6PoHIpbrQEAAAAA@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c3483l+65ds@eGroups.com>

> Europe has just observed three minutes silence for the victims of last
> Thursday's bombings in Madrid.
>  
> Every first Wednesday of the month, french air strike sirens go on at noo=
n
> and then at half past, in memory of World War II, a "we do not forget" si=
gn.
> Today is Monday. At 12H02 they wailed again. I can not tell how it made m=
e
> feel...
>  
> But I can promise not to forget being in the streets clothed in white for=

> East Timor. I can promise not to forget these sirens for Madrid. I don't
> know whether you've heard them. If you didn't, I can tell you they made a=

> mark...
>  
>  
>  
> ***
> Cristina Rebelo ?ngelo

Now Olivier:

I've heard them. I live right next to a siren so it really shocked me at fi=
rst because I actually 
thought it could be a real fire going. Then, I understood it was for Madrid=
 so I listened 
intently and waited. This morning, I also received a mail from a close span=
ish friend whose 
cousin would have been in one of the train had she not been sick on thursda=
y.
Take care,
Olivier





From CoyotesChild at charter.net  Tue Mar 16 18:06:49 2004
From: CoyotesChild at charter.net (Iggy McSnurd)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:06:49 -0600
Subject: Books 6 & 7?
Message-ID: <000001c40b81$77dac810$6501a8c0@Einstein>

Anyone else hear about these being distributed over the Internet?

Harry Potter #6 - Harry Potter and the Ring of the Ancients  
Harry Potter #6 - Harry Potter and the Time of Good Intentions

Harry Potter #7 - Harry Potter and the Triangle Prophecy


These are apparently being listed as completed books 6 and 7...  (I may
try to get my hands on them and read them just out of curiosity...)


Iggy McSnurd







From heidilist at tandys.org  Tue Mar 16 18:31:31 2004
From: heidilist at tandys.org (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:31:31 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Books 6 & 7?
In-Reply-To: <000001c40b81$77dac810$6501a8c0@Einstein>
References: <000001c40b81$77dac810$6501a8c0@Einstein>
Message-ID: <1079461894.31031D0D@r5.dngr.org>

Not sure what the first one is, but ToGI and Triangle are fanfics by 
Barb Purdom, and they're hosted on schnoogle, along with about nine 
thousand other novelish fanfics. Barb has never plugged her fics as 
*the* book 6 or  7 - they're summarized as 'sixth year' and 'seventh 
year' fics, and don't mesh up with the end of book 5 anyway.

Heidi
Admin for fictionalley
Http://www.fictionalley.org
On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 1:08pm, Iggy McSnurd wrote:
> Anyone else hear about these being distributed over the Internet?
>
> Harry Potter #6 - Harry Potter and the Ring of the Ancients
> Harry Potter #6 - Harry Potter and the Time of Good Intentions
>
> Harry Potter #7 - Harry Potter and the Triangle Prophecy
>
>
> These are apparently being listed as completed books 6 and 7...  (I may
> try to get my hands on them and read them just out of curiosity...)
>
>
> Iggy McSnurd
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin 
> Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from 
> posts to which you're replying!
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>



From annemehr at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 16 19:48:36 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:48:36 -0000
Subject: Books 6 & 7?
In-Reply-To: <1079461894.31031D0D@r5.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <c37lmk+lkls@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Heidi Tandy <heidilist at t...>
wrote:
> Not sure what the first one is, but ToGI and Triangle are fanfics by 
> Barb Purdom, and they're hosted on schnoogle, along with about nine 
> thousand other novelish fanfics. Barb has never plugged her fics as 
> *the* book 6 or  7 - they're summarized as 'sixth year' and 'seventh 
> year' fics, and don't mesh up with the end of book 5 anyway.
> 
> Heidi
> Admin for fictionalley
> Http://www.fictionalley.org

I thought those second two sounded familiar (and I don't read fanfic
at all -- yet).

Isn't this the same Barb who had her "HP and the Psychic Serpent"
taken and distributed as HP and the OoP shortly before the real one
was released?  So her work was being spread over the internet without
any credit to her as the author.  >:(

I'll be believing something's from book 6 when I see it in a
Bloomsbury/Scholastic press release or holding the actual book in my
hot little hands!

Annemehr






From kaustin at danvilletelco.net  Tue Mar 16 20:09:39 2004
From: kaustin at danvilletelco.net (Kevin Austin)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:09:39 -0000
Subject: Books 6 & 7?
In-Reply-To: <c37lmk+lkls@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c37mu3+nuie@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Heidi Tandy 
<heidilist at t...>
> wrote:
> > Not sure what the first one is, but ToGI and Triangle are 
fanfics by 
> > Barb Purdom, and they're hosted on schnoogle, along with about 
nine 
> > thousand other novelish fanfics. Barb has never plugged her fics 
as 
> > *the* book 6 or  7 - they're summarized as 'sixth year' 
and 'seventh 
> > year' fics, and don't mesh up with the end of book 5 anyway.
> > 
> > Heidi
> > Admin for fictionalley
> > Http://www.fictionalley.org
> 
> I thought those second two sounded familiar (and I don't read 
fanfic
> at all -- yet).
> 
> Isn't this the same Barb who had her "HP and the Psychic Serpent"
> taken and distributed as HP and the OoP shortly before the real one
> was released?  So her work was being spread over the internet 
without
> any credit to her as the author.  >:(
> 
> I'll be believing something's from book 6 when I see it in a
> Bloomsbury/Scholastic press release or holding the actual book in 
my
> hot little hands!
> 
> Annemehr

Be warned.  Barb's stories have a lot of sex.  They are well written 
but  several characters act completely different than in canon.  I 
can't see anyone mistaking any of the Psychic Serpent trilogy for 
JKR's work.

klaustininia




From saitaina at frontiernet.net  Tue Mar 16 21:54:06 2004
From: saitaina at frontiernet.net (Saitaina)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:54:06 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Books 6 & 7?
References: <000001c40b81$77dac810$6501a8c0@Einstein> <1079461894.31031D0D@r5.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <003f01c40ba1$343d76a0$01fea8c0@domain.invalid>

The Ring of the Ancients is also a fanfiction
I have come across, can't remember the author
or plot (never actually read it, just
remember the title).

Saitaina




From s_ings at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 17 13:29:42 2004
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:29:42 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Happy Birthday, Laila! (belated)
Message-ID: <20040317132942.26793.qmail@web41107.mail.yahoo.com>

*dusts off the box of decorations and rummages through
it to find just the right things*

Oh, hang on a sec...

*comes back with the all-important birthday cake*

Okay, now we're set.

Yesterday's birthday honouree was Laila. Belated
birthday owls can be sent care of this list or
directly to: golden_faile at yahoo.com

I hope your day was filled with fun and magic. 

Happy Birthday, Laila!

With apologies for the lateness of the greeting,

Sheryll the Birthday Elf

=====
http://www.conventionalley.org/


______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From s_ings at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 17 13:32:20 2004
From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:32:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Happy Birthday, Jana!
Message-ID: <20040317133220.7601.qmail@web41103.mail.yahoo.com>

*surveys the already decorated room and adds just a
few more touches*

I think we might need more food for the growing crowd.
If anything looks like it needs replenishing, there's
plenty more.

Today's birthday honouree is Jana. Birthday owls can
be sent care of this list or directly to:
george_weasleys_girlfriend at playful.com

I hope the day brings everything you wished for.

Happy Birthday, Jana!

Sheryll the Birthday Elf

=====
http://www.conventionalley.org/


______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From stevejjen at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 17 16:43:13 2004
From: stevejjen at earthlink.net (Jen Reese)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:43:13 -0000
Subject: SexySnape   was: Jaw on floor
In-Reply-To: <c32855+8b31@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c39v71+nvt9@eGroups.com>

> And the second link of a HP fan with too much free time:
> > http://www.eviltrailmix.com/snapesexy.swf 
> 
> Hehe.  You just have to love the pairing of fandom and the 
internet. 
> Makes the world a brighter, friendlier place.  There is just hope 
for
> humanity when they create things like this.  
> 
> Take a noble, stately performance of Snape and turn what few 
movements
> he makes into a techno dancing, cat walk pouting character that 
still
> seems somewhat strangly in character.  ;)


This link is too funny! It cheers me up immensely for some reason--
wonder if Alan Rickman has seen it? Someone needs to send him 
fanmail with the link; it would probably make his day :).

Jen




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Wed Mar 17 19:34:11 2004
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 17 Mar 2004 19:34:11 -0000
Subject: Reminder - Weekly Chat 
Message-ID: <1079552051.2279.2987.m2@yahoogroups.com>


We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Weekly Chat 

Date: Sunday, March 14, 2004 
Time: 11:00AM - 7:00PM CST (GMT-06:00) 

Hi everyone! 

Don't forget, chat happens today, 11 am Pacific, 2 pm Eastern, 7
pm UK time. *Chat times are not changing for Daylight
Saving/Summer Time.*  Chat generally goes on for about 5 hours,
but can last as long as people want it to last.

Go into any Yahoo chat room and type /join HP:1 
For further info, see the Humongous BigFile, section 3.3.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/hbfile.html#33

Hope to see you there! 

 





From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Mar 17 23:18:28 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:18:28 -0000
Subject: Reminder - Weekly Chat
In-Reply-To: <1079552051.2279.2987.m2@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3amc4+qnbn@eGroups.com>

HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com wrote:
> 
> We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.
> 
> Weekly Chat 
> 
> Date: Sunday, March 14, 2004 
> Time: 11:00AM - 7:00PM CST (GMT-06:00) 
> 
> Hi everyone! 
> 
> Don't forget, chat happens today, 11 am Pacific, 2 pm Eastern, 7
> pm UK time.

OK, I'll just grab the Time Turner, and be on my way.

:D




From golden_faile at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 17 23:46:32 2004
From: golden_faile at yahoo.com (golden_faile)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:46:32 -0000
Subject: Happy Birthday, Laila! (belated)
In-Reply-To: <20040317132942.26793.qmail@web41107.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c3ao0o+323n@eGroups.com>

Thank You!!!


--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Sheryll Townsend 
<s_ings at y...> wrote:
> *dusts off the box of decorations and rummages through
> it to find just the right things*
> 
> Oh, hang on a sec...
> 
> *comes back with the all-important birthday cake*
> 
> Okay, now we're set.
> 
> Yesterday's birthday honouree was Laila. Belated
> birthday owls can be sent care of this list or
> directly to: golden_faile at y...
> 
> I hope your day was filled with fun and magic. 
> 
> Happy Birthday, Laila!
> 
> With apologies for the lateness of the greeting,
> 
> Sheryll the Birthday Elf
> 
> =====
> http://www.conventionalley.org/
> 
> 
> 
______________________________________________________________________
 
> Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca




From mphunt at sprintmail.com  Fri Mar 19 14:10:32 2004
From: mphunt at sprintmail.com (Tracy Hunt)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:10:32 -0000
Subject: limericks, anyone?
Message-ID: <c3ev0o+3kar@eGroups.com>

OTC has been shamefully quiet lately...so here's my lame attempt to 
remedy that.  Please feel free to criticize or contribute as you see 
fit.


There was a young Keeper named Ron
Of his playing, we're not very fond
The Slytherins all sing
that Weasley's our King
But he'll have the last word on that song


There once was a teacher named Snape
Hooked nose, greasy hair and black cape
His panties are gray
(as we all saw one day)
>From this memory he'll never escape


Tcy




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri Mar 19 14:48:31 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:48:31 -0000
Subject: limericks, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <c3ev0o+3kar@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3f17v+258q@eGroups.com>

Tracy wrote:
> OTC has been shamefully quiet lately...so here's my lame attempt 
to 
> remedy that. 

There was a young lady called Tcy,
Who made up her songs on the fly.
The thing about Tcy,
Is rhyming's not easy,
But I'm having a jolly good try

:D




From sydenmill at msn.com  Fri Mar 19 14:47:36 2004
From: sydenmill at msn.com (bohcoo)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:47:36 -0000
Subject: limericks, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <c3ev0o+3kar@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3f168+8bjo@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Tracy Hunt" <mphunt at s...> 
wrote:
> OTC has been shamefully quiet lately...so here's my lame attempt to 
> remedy that.  Please feel free to criticize or contribute as you 
see 
> fit.
> 
> 
> There was a young Keeper named Ron
> Of his playing, we're not very fond
> The Slytherins all sing
> that Weasley's our King
> But he'll have the last word on that song
> 
> 
> There once was a teacher named Snape
> Hooked nose, greasy hair and black cape
> His panties are gray
> (as we all saw one day)
> From this memory he'll never escape
> 
> 
> Tcy

Bohcoo replies:

Hey T, nice to see you haven't gotten spring fever yet! Of course, 
spring hasn't arrived quite yet where you are, has it?

What a wonderful idea!. Limericks! And you came up with CLEAN ones, 
too! Unfortunately, however, I can't come up with one to share back.

Boy, I don't know what it is -- I am here every day, reading 
everyone's posts -- but can't come up with a post of my own for the 
life of me. Everything I write sounds like my brain is floating in 
that tank in the Department of Mysteries (thrown in here for, well, 
you know...)

Thanks for being our engine for awhile!

Grins,
Bohcoo 




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Fri Mar 19 15:08:29 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:08:29 -0000
Subject: limericks, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <c3ev0o+3kar@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3f2dd+fgln@eGroups.com>

Another

Albus went out for a tinkle
Regretting that he was still single
But all that he got
Was an old chamber pot
"Oh, it must be the way that I twinkle!"

D




From Ali at zymurgy.org  Fri Mar 19 16:21:35 2004
From: Ali at zymurgy.org (Ali)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:21:35 -0000
Subject: limericks, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <c3f17v+258q@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3f6mf+h1pv@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "davewitley" wrote:
> 
> There was a young lady called Tcy,
> Who made up her songs on the fly.
> The thing about Tcy,
> Is rhyming's not easy,
> But I'm having a jolly good try

Boo hiss! In response to that, here is a rather poor one:

There once was a Potter-fan named Dave,
Who wanted to go to a rave,
In his haste he forgot,
To get off at the stop,
And ended up in Joy's cave. 

Ali




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Fri Mar 19 17:06:51 2004
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:06:51 -0000
Subject: limericks, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <c3ev0o+3kar@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3f9bb+kdr1@eGroups.com>

There once was a Y!Group called Chatter
Whose members got fatter and fatter
They got very stout
Cause they never went out
But spent all day typing  up  patter.

Pippin




From constancevigilance at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 19 18:24:43 2004
From: constancevigilance at yahoo.com (constancevigilance)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:24:43 -0000
Subject: limericks, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <c3ev0o+3kar@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3fdtb+bofr@eGroups.com>

A filkster in Indy named Caius
Had a definite classical bias
The filks that he's writ
Have some taste and some wit
But the multisyllabics defy us.


CV




From constancevigilance at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 19 18:53:52 2004
From: constancevigilance at yahoo.com (constancevigilance)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:53:52 -0000
Subject: limericks, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <c3ev0o+3kar@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3ffk0+f8p1@eGroups.com>

Posting seen at the Wizard Unemployment Office:


There's a vacancy here at Hogwarts
To teach The Defence of Dark Arts
The bene's aren't great
But we're careful of late
And we always return body parts.

(Inquire Headmaster, Hogwarts)


CV, having too much fun. But is stopping now. Honest.




From mphunt at sprintmail.com  Fri Mar 19 18:55:24 2004
From: mphunt at sprintmail.com (Tracy Hunt)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:55:24 -0000
Subject: limericks, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <c3ev0o+3kar@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3ffms+jenc@eGroups.com>

There was a fine poster named Pippin
Who taught us all ESE!Lupin
Good arguments made
Some have been swayed
But Remus is good - so I'm hopin'

(yeah, yeah...go ahead and groan)

Tcy




From cwood at tattersallpub.com  Fri Mar 19 20:40:08 2004
From: cwood at tattersallpub.com (mstattersall)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:40:08 -0000
Subject: limericks, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <c3ev0o+3kar@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3flr8+fmqc@eGroups.com>

> OTC has been shamefully quiet lately...so here's my lame attempt to 
> remedy that.  
> Tcy

Here's mine (no offense intended, Igster):

An unabashed pagan named Iggy
Says "Most holidays are no biggie.
But the spring equinox
Is the season that rocks--
That's when all of us pagans get jiggy."

MsTattersall




From dradamsapple at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 20 00:27:04 2004
From: dradamsapple at yahoo.com (dradamsapple)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 00:27:04 -0000
Subject: limericks, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <c3f9bb+kdr1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3g34o+63be@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> 
wrote:
> There once was a Y!Group called Chatter
> Whose members got fatter and fatter
> They got very stout
> Cause they never went out
> But spent all day typing  up  patter.
> 
> Pippin

Ooo!  
this is getting me out of my cupboard . . .

I actually posted one on my lj recently; it was my contribution to HP 
fanfic (since, I can't write or draw)


There once was a witch named Hermione,
Who slipped and fell on her hiney,
When dear Harry came by,
And on his broom they did fly,
As poor Ron looked on and said "Blimey"!


And pippin, love yours; it describes me to a 'T' lately!


Anna . . . (ok, the cupboard calls again)




From hphgrwlca at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 20 02:09:25 2004
From: hphgrwlca at yahoo.com (Christine Acker)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:09:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: fanfic recs, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <1079732891.464.75947.m12@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040320020925.39876.qmail@web13005.mail.yahoo.com>

Okay, I haven't posted in a while, but since things
are getting so dead, I was wondering if anyone had any
fanfic recommendations.  I've read Cassandra Claire's
Draco series, Lori's Paradigm of Uncertainty series,
After the End, and the Potion Master's Apprentice. 
I'm in a fanfic rut and I need some good stuff! 
Help!!

Once I believed HP was dumb
The thought of it made my mind numb
Them I started to read
Now I'm an HP steed
And I even hooked up my mum!!

There once was a lass called Joanne
Who one day took a pen in her hand
She started to write
Continued all night
Created best wizard in the land!

Ok, I know those are really bad, but I was bored while
doing the dishes....

Christine


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com



From saitaina at frontiernet.net  Sat Mar 20 02:16:39 2004
From: saitaina at frontiernet.net (Saitaina)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:16:39 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] fanfic recs, anyone?
References: <20040320020925.39876.qmail@web13005.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001001c40e21$621e9ea0$01fea8c0@domain.invalid>

Christine wrote:

<I was wondering if anyone had any
fanfic recommendations. >

It's rather hard to give recs when one
doesn't know what you're looking for...but
the best bet would be to search on FA
(fictionalley.org).  They have many ways to
find fics including their Nifflers which are
fic recomenders.

I myself am starting a recommended fic list
in my LJ (link at bottom, the list is on Dec
4th 2003) but as I'm a slash writer/reader I
tend to recomend fics that focus on that,
though there are a few generals there.

I hope you find some intresting works.  And
remember to try some of the lesser known
writers, I've found some incredible gems by
people who really don't get the credit they
deserve.

Saitaina
****
Relying on the government to protect your
privacy is like asking a peeping tom to
install your window blinds.-- John Perry
Barlow

http://www.livejournal.com/users/saitaina

"No, one day I'm going to look back on all
this and plow face-first into a tree because
I was looking the wrong bloody way. And I'll
still be having a better day than I am
today."




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 20 03:15:37 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 03:15:37 -0000
Subject: limericks, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <c3ev0o+3kar@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3gd0p+shng@eGroups.com>

Just the right idea for the weekend!

Here are two from me:


To see the Headmaster one day,
Harry knew no more passwords to say,
And all he could muster
Was "Cock-a-roach Cluster" --
The gargoyle jumped out of the way!



Of Molly dear Arthur was fond;
Once married he wielded his wand:
Bill, Charlie, and Percy,
Fred, George, Ron and Ginny --
The charming results of the bond!


Annemehr





From jeopardy18 at attbi.com  Sat Mar 20 04:43:15 2004
From: jeopardy18 at attbi.com (seanmulligan2000)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 04:43:15 -0000
Subject: fanfic recs, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <20040320020925.39876.qmail@web13005.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c3gi53+ial0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Christine Acker 
<hphgrwlca at y...> wrote:
> Okay, I haven't posted in a while, but since things
> are getting so dead, I was wondering if anyone had any
> fanfic recommendations.  I've read Cassandra Claire's
> Draco series, Lori's Paradigm of Uncertainty series,
> After the End, and the Potion Master's Apprentice. 
> I'm in a fanfic rut and I need some good stuff! 
> Help!!
> 
> Once I believed HP was dumb
> The thought of it made my mind numb
> Them I started to read
> Now I'm an HP steed
> And I even hooked up my mum!!
> 
> There once was a lass called Joanne
> Who one day took a pen in her hand
> She started to write
> Continued all night
> Created best wizard in the land!
> 
> Ok, I know those are really bad, but I was bored while
> doing the dishes....
> 
> Christine
> 
> You should read the Slyterin Rising series by J.L. Matthews, and 
the Pscychic Serpent series by Barb.  Both of these fanfics are 
available on the Schnoogle section of Fiction Alley and Fanfiction.net
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
> http://mail.yahoo.com




From kking0731 at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 20 05:11:08 2004
From: kking0731 at hotmail.com (Kathy King)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 00:11:08 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: limericks, anyone?
Message-ID: <Sea2-F5BXezZ7SApFZE00007753@hotmail.com>

A modest example of the latest limerick:

Theres no doubt what you say is quite humorous
But what Harry has got is bituminous
If they dont cut it out
It will grow more than Sprout
And LV will become quite in-fame-ious




Kathy

_________________________________________________________________
Get tax tips, tools and access to IRS forms  all in one place at MSN Money! 
http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/home.asp




From pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk  Sat Mar 20 09:23:55 2004
From: pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk (bluesqueak)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:23:55 -0000
Subject: The new Doctor Who...
Message-ID: <c3h2jb+dok7@eGroups.com>

... has just been announced on the BBC as Christopher Eccleston 

See http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001172/
for his (excellent) tv and film credentials.

Looks like the new series is finally going to happen!


Pip




From heidilist at tandys.org  Sat Mar 20 09:30:27 2004
From: heidilist at tandys.org (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 04:30:27 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] fanfic recs, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <001001c40e21$621e9ea0$01fea8c0@domain.invalid>
References: <20040320020925.39876.qmail@web13005.mail.yahoo.com> <001001c40e21$621e9ea0$01fea8c0@domain.invalid>
Message-ID: <1079775040.AAF95E6@r5.dngr.org>


Christine wrote:
>
> <I was wondering if anyone had any
> fanfic recommendations. >
>
My rec of the year is Copperbadge's Stealing Harry - 
http://www.u.arizona.edu/~foora/sam/stealingharry.htm - it's an 
alt-universe about what would've happened if Lucius (bent on revenge) 
had found Peter before Sirius did, and everything that happens after. 
It's focused, at this point, on sirius & Remus and 8-9 year old Harry, 
and is absolutely wonderful.

Also, last fall I was asked to do an article on fanfiction for Movie 
Magic Magazine, and if you're in the US or Canada you should be able to 
find a copy on newsstands now. TLC and FictionAlley will host the full 
list in about 6 weeks or so (I can't put it up before that per my 
editor's request) but you can find a smattering of the list in my 
livejournal (heidi8.livejournal.com) if you scroll back about two 
weeks.


Heidi



From alshainofthenorth at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Mar 20 10:13:13 2004
From: alshainofthenorth at yahoo.co.uk (alshainofthenorth)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:13:13 -0000
Subject: fanfic recs, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <1079775040.AAF95E6@r5.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <c3h5fp+lun8@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Heidi Tandy <heidilist at t...> 
wrote:
> 
> My rec of the year is Copperbadge's Stealing Harry - 
> http://www.u.arizona.edu/~foora/sam/stealingharry.htm - it's an 
> alt-universe about what would've happened if Lucius (bent on 
revenge) 
> had found Peter before Sirius did, and everything that happens 
after. 
> It's focused, at this point, on sirius & Remus and 8-9 year old 
Harry, 
> and is absolutely wonderful.
> Heidi

Seconded! Eight-and-a-half year old Harry is delightful to read. 
Favourite quote:

"Are you from Narnia?" Harry asked, awed.
"No, Harry. I'm from Yorkshire," Remus grinned.

I think we need put a small slash warning on it, however. Some people 
get upset if characters aren't portrayed as 100 % heterosexual.

Speaking of AUs, Robin's "Promises Unbroken" (complete) and its 
sequel "Promises Remembered" (in progress) are worth reading as well, 
as is her fifth-year fic "Death Before Dishonour". All can be found 
at the Sugar Quill archives. Definite must especially for Siriophiles.

My recs, in a nutshell.
Alshain




From mkeller01 at alltel.net  Sat Mar 20 12:54:59 2004
From: mkeller01 at alltel.net (jksunflower2002)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:54:59 -0000
Subject: fanfic recs, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <20040320020925.39876.qmail@web13005.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c3hev3+hoij@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Christine Acker 
<hphgrwlca at y...> wrote:
> Okay, I haven't posted in a while, but since things
> are getting so dead, I was wondering if anyone had any
> fanfic recommendations. 
 >Christine


A few....

http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=1337659
Gabriel4 (AU-I highly recommend all of her work)


http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=389478
Marz1 (AU--a wonderful blend of humor and angst)

Toad

 




From neonsister at ameritech.net  Sat Mar 20 17:59:28 2004
From: neonsister at ameritech.net (neonsister at ameritech.net)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:59:28 -0000
Subject: limericks, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <Sea2-F5BXezZ7SApFZE00007753@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <c3i0q0+23k6@eGroups.com>

*Tracy arrives late to the limerick party*

There once was a wizard named Black
He succumbed to Bellatrix's attack
He fell through the veil
Dead as a doornail
But some readers think he'll be back!


There once was a ghost named Nick
He floats through the hallways so quick
But watch out for his head
it hangs by a thread
and the sight of it might make you sick!

:-)




From chopsfold at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Mar 21 11:05:27 2004
From: chopsfold at yahoo.co.uk (chopsfold)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 11:05:27 -0000
Subject: The new Doctor Who...
In-Reply-To: <c3h2jb+dok7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3jstn+78q0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "bluesqueak" <pipdowns at e...> 
wrote:
> ... has just been announced on the BBC as Christopher Eccleston 
> 
> See http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001172/
> for his (excellent) tv and film credentials.
> 
> Looks like the new series is finally going to happen!
> 
> 
> Pip

He's an inspired choice IMHO, although he's always been how I see 
Lupin.

Chopsfold




From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Mar 21 16:02:21 2004
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 21 Mar 2004 16:02:21 -0000
Subject: Reminder - Weekly Chat 
Message-ID: <1079884941.189.28113.m20@yahoogroups.com>


We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Weekly Chat 

Date: Sunday, March 21, 2004 
Time: 11:00AM - 7:00PM CST (GMT-06:00) 

Hi everyone! 

Don't forget, chat happens today, 11 am Pacific, 2 pm Eastern, 7
pm UK time. *Chat times are not changing for Daylight
Saving/Summer Time.*  Chat generally goes on for about 5 hours,
but can last as long as people want it to last.

Go into any Yahoo chat room and type /join HP:1 
For further info, see the Humongous BigFile, section 3.3.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/hbfile.html#33

Hope to see you there! 

 





From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Mon Mar 22 22:36:16 2004
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (drednort at alphalink.com.au)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:36:16 +1000
Subject: Lecture in Melbourne
In-Reply-To: <20040322201802.JCXH11989.out004.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net>
References: <20040322201802.JCXH11989.out004.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <20040322223454.M16592@alphalink.com.au>

http://tinyurl.com/2orkl

Unfortunately even though I'm a student at the University, I've found out
about this too late to attend! I have a commitment tonight I can't postpone.





From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 23 00:18:48 2004
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:18:48 -0000
Subject: limericks, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <c3ffk0+f8p1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3nvp8+bo11@eGroups.com>

Constance Vigilance wrote:

> Posting seen at the Wizard Unemployment Office:
> 
> 
> There's a vacancy here at Hogwarts
> To teach The Defence of Dark Arts
> The bene's aren't great
> But we're careful of late
> And we always return body parts.
> 
> (Inquire Headmaster, Hogwarts)
> 
> 
> CV, having too much fun. But is stopping now. Honest.

Brava!

A grizzled old wizard named Mad-Eye
Thought he'd answer that plaintive want-ad cry
But the post that he got
Wasn't quite what he'd sought;
It was "Victim of Volume Four's Bad Guy."

Amy Z




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 23 00:26:08 2004
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:26:08 -0000
Subject: limericks, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <c3ev0o+3kar@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3o070+boov@eGroups.com>

Tcy wrote:

> There once was a teacher named Snape
> Hooked nose, greasy hair and black cape
> His panties are gray
> (as we all saw one day)
> From this memory he'll never escape

A curmudgeonly witch on this Chat
Said Snape nightly turned into a bat.
When the author demurred,
Joy boldly averred,
"I'm right, Rowling's wrong, and that's that."*

Amy Z

*See Message 21729




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 23 00:36:59 2004
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:36:59 -0000
Subject: limericks, anyone?  AHHHHHHHH I cant stop help me save me
In-Reply-To: <c3o070+boov@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3o0rb+tu6m@eGroups.com>

A Pottering mama named Heidi
Thought JKR's plots were too tidy.
To ward off that danger
She hoped that Ms. Granger
One day would become Draco's bridey.

Amy Z




From kcawte at ntlworld.com  Tue Mar 23 15:57:58 2004
From: kcawte at ntlworld.com (Kathryn Cawte)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:57:58 -0800
Subject: Adult copies
Message-ID: <000a01c410ef$a0adcf30$bcde6251@kathryn>

According to BBC Business Bloomsbury have announced they will be publishing adult hard cover copies of the HP books this summer - for those of you who think the somewhat bright and gaudy kids versions don't fit your bookcases. I *almost* wish I didn't already own all 5 in other versions because I know the paperback versions are rather stylish.

K
"The Loudest Noise Comes From The Electric Minerva."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 23 10:42:15 2004
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:42:15 -0000
Subject: OT: Concert Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <002201c406fd$5694c760$05030f04@dslverizon.net>
Message-ID: <c3p4a7+g109@eGroups.com>

Silverthorne wrote:

> All it takes nowadays is for a child to swear that it was 'abused' 
for an
> adult to end up on the 'wrong' side of the law. 

"It"?

Amy Z




From silverthorne.dragon at verizon.net  Tue Mar 23 12:55:30 2004
From: silverthorne.dragon at verizon.net (Silverthorne)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 6:55:30 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: OT: Concert Etiquette
Message-ID: <20040323125530.IWIK1634.out006.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net>

Silverthorne wrote:

> All it takes nowadays is for a child to swear that it was 'abused' 
for an
> adult to end up on the 'wrong' side of the law. 

"It"?

Amy Z

{Silverthorne}

*Groans*

Yikes, you're not going to go all 'politically correct' on me here, are you? *Winks good naturedly*

The use of "it' was to simplify the subject (said subject being a child or children), instead of havivg to type out 'He or She' constantly (Since forgetting to type in both genders ALSO tends to get peoples hairs up nowadays).

Anyway, thought this subject was gone. I let it drop since really, its a bit sore for all involved. And to be fair, everyone had their own take on the whole thing, so all we would do is squabble over it for months to come and still not solve a thing. Let's not revive it again, okay? Especially over a poorly used pronoun on my behalf.

**Tired of defending self/differing viewpoints when there's no point to it**

Anne/Silverthorne


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 23 15:37:05 2004
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:37:05 -0000
Subject: OT: Concert Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20040323125530.IWIK1634.out006.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <c3plj1+7565@eGroups.com>

Silverthorne wrote:

>>> Anyway, thought this subject was gone. I let it drop since 
really, its a bit sore for all involved. And to be fair, everyone 
had their own take on the whole thing, so all we would do is 
squabble over it for months to come and still not solve a thing. 
Let's not revive it again, okay? <<<

Sorry--2 weeks is not a long interval for me nowadays, but I realize 
things move fast on this list.  If the thread is tiresome to you, I 
can stand to drop it.

Amy Z




From silverthorne.dragon at verizon.net  Tue Mar 23 18:23:58 2004
From: silverthorne.dragon at verizon.net (Silverthorne)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:23:58 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: OT: Concert Etiquette
Message-ID: <20040323182358.TKRX18566.out011.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net>


Not so much tiresome as sort of pointless. I came to that conclusion when I realized that my next answer to Laura was bergoning on 50k and I was only 3/4 of the way through it in my effort to answer each question and point. And then I realized most of it was simply my attempt at 'justifying' my own values (which was what Laura was doing as well)...

Then came the realization that since we are both pretty set in our opinions, all it would do is set off a string of posts where we (and anyone else who joined in) tried to prove why our own point was the correct one, leaving little allowance for why the other person may have a point.

Surprisingly, this all started because of a generalization that someone took exception to and applied to thier own morals and values...and, if you sit to think about it, we all were more or less in the same camp, but we all had specific details we were getting stuck on, and thus the 'fight' started. Although it;s nice to be heard, sometimes it's wiser to leave it alone, if not for your own sake, than for everyone else who has to 'listen' to it.

If anyone really wants to hear my stance on the questions Laura posed, I'll be happy to answer privately, but I'm long past trying to 'prove my point' on the subject here...let's just say I feel it won't really do much more than start an argumentive round that we all don't need to be subject to...^^

Cheers and Hugs
Anne/Silverthorne


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From sophiamcl at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 23 22:23:19 2004
From: sophiamcl at hotmail.com (sophiamcl)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:23:19 -0000
Subject: limericks, anyone?  AHHHHHHHH I cant stop help me save me
In-Reply-To: <c3o0rb+tu6m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3qdcn+bhjq@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Amy Z" <lupinesque at y...> 
wrote:
> A Pottering mama named Heidi
> Thought JKR's plots were too tidy.
> To ward off that danger
> She hoped that Ms. Granger
> One day would become Draco's bridey.
> 
> Amy Z

A middle-aged bat back in Sweden
thought Amy Z's lim'ricks were Eden
She said: Please don't stop,
limerick till you drop!
It surely beats sweepin' and weedin'

(ok that was really lame, but I couldn't find a decent rhyme and I 
haven't got all night... :-)

Lurk, lurk
Sophia





From sophiamcl at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 23 22:32:22 2004
From: sophiamcl at hotmail.com (sophiamcl)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:32:22 -0000
Subject: limericks, anyone?  AHHHHHHHH I cant stop help me save me
In-Reply-To: <c3o0rb+tu6m@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3qdtm+31on@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Amy Z" <lupinesque at y...> 
wrote:
> A Pottering mama named Heidi
> Thought JKR's plots were too tidy.
> To ward off that danger
> She hoped that Ms. Granger
> One day would become Draco's bridey.
> 
> Amy Z

Oh, and another thing Amy--I don't wish to alarm you, but are you 
quite sure you haven't been reading "Sonnets of a Sorcerer"? :-)

Sophia




From lupinesque at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 24 16:13:51 2004
From: lupinesque at yahoo.com (Amy Z)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:13:51 -0000
Subject: the point of argument
In-Reply-To: <20040323182358.TKRX18566.out011.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <c3sc3v+gshc@eGroups.com>

Silverthorne wrote:

>Although it;s nice to be heard, sometimes it's wiser to leave it 
>alone, if not for your own sake, than for everyone else who has 
>to 'listen' to it.

I have two thoughts on that.

One, no one has to listen to it; the beauty of a list is that you 
can read the threads you like, & skip the ones that make you groan.  
That is why the administrators of this list tend to use a light hand 
and declare as few topics as possible off-limits.  The medium is not 
sound, where it is hard to ignore a conversation, but sight, where 
it is easy.

Two, I was finding it edifying.

Three--three thoughts!  I have THREE thoughts!--yes, I agree with 
you, sometimes it's wiser to leave it alone & each participant has 
to be free to walk away when it's no longer fruitful for them.

Four, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.

Um, where was I?  Oh yeah.  I guess I have a lot of faith in 
people's ability to change their minds; I frequently change my mind 
as a result of other people's explanations of their stances (not 
about the war, though <grins at Amanda> [sorry for the in-joke . . . 
believe me, if you don't like conflict, you don't *want* to know 
about my & Amanda's political discussions]).  I especially like 
discussions where people are giving and taking, acknowledging each 
other's points, sharing the evolution of their ideas: in short, 
learning from each other.

The reason I found it edifying is that although I agree almost 
entirely with Laura, I was also aware as I read that I had just 
written at some length (in another context) about how things *have* 
eroded in some of the ways you described.  I wasn't specifically 
writing about manners, but I do think manners are in decline--heaven 
knows there are plenty of 60-somethings who don't seem to know the 
polite way to answer a telephone, but on the whole their manners are 
noticeably more considerate than their grandchildren's.  On the 
other hand, I wholeheartedly agree that a generation that is less 
racist, less sexist, more accepting of gays-lesbians-bisexuals-
transgendered folk, and more concerned about the environment than 
the generation before indicates that, far from the good old days 
being good, some things about the human personality have improved 
vastly since then.  I'm a hell of a lot more likely to have my civil 
rights respected if Laura's generation writes the legislation.  

IOW, I have mixed feelings.  Sitting in on a discussion where I have 
agreement with more than one person is particularly interesting--it 
stimulates all sorts of questions in myself about whether I'm 
holding contradictory opinions.

Just my 2+ Knuts,
Amy Z




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Wed Mar 24 17:04:32 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:04:32 -0000
Subject: the point of argument
In-Reply-To: <c3sc3v+gshc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3sf30+qq23@eGroups.com>

Amy Z wrote:

> Um, where was I?  Oh yeah.  I guess I have a lot of faith in 
> people's ability to change their minds; I frequently change my 
mind 
> as a result of other people's explanations of their stances 

Like Amy I didn't have time to participate first time round.

The thing that puzzed me (and frequently does in arguments of this 
type) is that many of the subjects that seem to generate the most 
heat seem seem to  be empirical matters that could be settled with 
recourse to official statistics and the like.  Don't the relevant 
authorities *publish* statistics on the incidence of people being 
arrested for child abuse, the proportion of succesful convictions, 
the regional variations in such data, and so on?  Such statistics 
don't necessarily resolve the issues (is an increase due to crimes 
formerly missed now being cleared up or is it over-zealous 
officialdom?) but they do help to define more clearly where the 
argument, if any, really is.

IMO, properly marshalled information trumps any amount of my-friend-
was-in-a-mall-and-saw-the-police-stand-by-and-hold-the-coats-of-a-
gang-of-youths-while-they-beat-up-an-old-man anecdotes.

In the same way, I don't think it's beyond the wit of most HPFGU 
members to set out in a dispassionate way the issues that bear on a 
political decision such as that to invade a foreign country, 
delineate the areas of uncertainty that would need resolving (and in 
practice might require the resources of government to resolve), and 
then assess whether in fact the public decision-making process did 
address the relevant issues and uncertainties.  It's not rocket 
science (unless the decision is whether to send a mission to Mars), 
though it perhaps does take more time than most of us would really 
like to spend.

To me, it's Hermione and Lavender's rabbit all over again.

David




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 24 18:16:48 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:16:48 -0000
Subject: the point of argument
In-Reply-To: <c3sc3v+gshc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3sjag+ttg7@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Amy Z" <lupinesque at y...> wrote:
> Silverthorne wrote:
> 
> >Although it;s nice to be heard, sometimes it's wiser to leave it 
> >alone, if not for your own sake, than for everyone else who has 
> >to 'listen' to it.

Amy Z:
> I have two thoughts on that.
> 
> One, no one has to listen to it; the beauty of a list is that you 
> can read the threads you like, & skip the ones that make you groan.  
> That is why the administrators of this list tend to use a light hand 
> and declare as few topics as possible off-limits.  The medium is not 
> sound, where it is hard to ignore a conversation, but sight, where 
> it is easy.
> 
> Two, I was finding it edifying.
> 
> Three--three thoughts!  I have THREE thoughts!--yes, I agree with 
> you, sometimes it's wiser to leave it alone & each participant has 
> to be free to walk away when it's no longer fruitful for them.

Annemehr:
I'd like to second the three thoughts, and stress the point that, if
someone has had enough of a certain discussion, people should
understand that it does not mean their ideas are any less valid.

Where else but here can we even have these discussions?  In my
experience there are very few places online that keep things as civil
and polite as we do.  Without certain topics having been explored
here, I would have missed so much.  For instance, in my "real life"
(for lack of a better term), almost everyone I know is Christian. 
Back when I was in college, almost everyone I knew was Christian,
Jewish, or atheist.  People are so much more diverse here.  In "RL," I
am not aware of knowing any gay people personally, but here there are
people of all orientations who are willing to talk about it if the
subject arises.  Also, I was educated in the '70s and early '80s, and
it's interesting to talk to people who've gone to school at different
times.

We have a good thing going here, and I hope we can enjoy it without
making anyone squirm.

Come to think of it, here's another point: we develop our
communication skills here.  How often have we had disagreements, only
to find we've sometimes been talking past each other?  So we go back
and forth for a while, find a lot of common ground, and agree to
disagree about what's left?  That has to be good practice!

Annemehr






From stevejjen at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 24 19:04:28 2004
From: stevejjen at earthlink.net (Jen Reese)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:04:28 -0000
Subject: the point of argument
In-Reply-To: <c3sjag+ttg7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3sm3s+s6bb@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
wrote:
> Come to think of it, here's another point: we develop our
> communication skills here.  How often have we had disagreements, 
only
> to find we've sometimes been talking past each other?  So we go 
back
> and forth for a while, find a lot of common ground, and agree to
> disagree about what's left?  That has to be good practice!
> 


Jen: Well said! I consider myself a much better writer than a 
verbalizer, especially when the discussion is highly polarized 
and/or very emotional. Being on this list, reading a different 
viewpoint (without being able to interrupt the person <g>) has made 
me a better communicator in RL. It's so hard in the middle of a 
verbal argument to stop, take a deep breath, and really HEAR what 
someone is saying, and occasionally I haven't been able to do that 
on here, either! But for the most part, I can make myself step back, 
read and re-read what a poster is saying before responding.

Jen, who unlike David, thinks statistics and facts often serve to 
make an argument even murkier :).




From mphunt at sprintmail.com  Wed Mar 24 20:55:47 2004
From: mphunt at sprintmail.com (Tracy Hunt)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 20:55:47 -0000
Subject: the point of argument
In-Reply-To: <c3sc3v+gshc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3sskj+oe6d@eGroups.com>

As one often accused of having a twisted sense of humor I'm probably 
the only one to come up with this particular thought on this thread - 
but here goes:

The subject line of this thread caused Monty Python's Argument Clinic 
to leap to mind - and now I can't get it out of my head!  


"Shut your festering gob, you twit.  Your type really makes me puke.  
You vacuous, coffee nosed, malodorous pervert!"

"Um...I was here for Argument?"

"Oh...You want the next door down - this is Abuse."


Tcy
sorry for digressing - I just can't contain it sometimes




From silverthorne.dragon at verizon.net  Wed Mar 24 22:04:03 2004
From: silverthorne.dragon at verizon.net (Silverthorne)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:04:03 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: the point of argument
References: <c3sskj+oe6d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c411eb$eb51a640$05030f04@dslverizon.net>

{Tracy}

As one often accused of having a twisted sense of humor I'm probably 
the only one to come up with this particular thought on this thread - 
but here goes:

{Anne}

LOL! 
Anyway, I can see both points--those who were all for continuing, and those who thought that it wasn't something worth continuing. As I said before, for me personally, it was preferable to let it drop, simply because I wasn't really looking for an argument in the first place--I was simply defending someone else who had a few views I agreed with. Silly me for forgetting this was a discussion board, which meant 'anything I said could be used against me in a Board of Talkers'...lol. 

Seriously, though, once I took a good look at the responce I had for Laura, I realized that it had far less to do with fact then with opinion...and we all have those, and have the right to them, right? And since I was more interested in things like reading the Limericks, reading the various HP discussions, and writing posts on the RPG and writer's boards I belong to elsewhere in Yahoo-land, I decided it wasn't really worth it. ^^ I realize that may leave a few bad (and false) opinions about where I stand on things, but overall, it just didn't take precedence over things I enjoyed doing far more. That, and I'm sure Laura appreciated the break too...

*************************************

Anne/Silverthorne
Silverthorne.Dragon at verizon.net (Nights and Weekends)
Anne-TMC-RCVG.Campbell at tenetheath.com (6am-3pm American Central, Mon-Fri.)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From lhuntley at fandm.edu  Wed Mar 24 22:38:34 2004
From: lhuntley at fandm.edu (Laura Ingalls Huntley)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:38:34 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: the point of argument
In-Reply-To: <c3sf30+qq23@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <FBC458AC-7DE3-11D8-94CF-000A95E29F3E@fandm.edu>

Like Silverthorne, I eventually just lost interest in the Manners 
Debate the first time around -- I got about halfway through a response 
to the last post on the topic, realized I was just repeating myself 
again, and decided to let it go in favor of finishing my Linear Algebra 
homework (which was a first, lemme tell you).

However, I'm glad to see this new thread rise from the decaying remains 
of that discussion.  Debating the nature of Debating is one of my 
favorite things (for all that I'm a complete amateur at it). ^_^

David Witley:
> The thing that puzzed me (and frequently does in arguments of this
> type) is that many of the subjects that seem to generate the most
> heat seem seem to  be empirical matters that could be settled with
> recourse to official statistics and the like.

Oh, dear.  I can see why one might think this, but the truth is that 
so-called "empirical" statistics are dirty rotten liars.  After doing a 
few term papers on well-studied issues like abortion and the death 
penalty, I've come to realize the horrible truth: people can make 
statistics "say" just about any darn thing they'd like (even in cases 
where they're honestly *trying* to be impartial).

Even a body of hard, replicable data from controlled *scientific* 
experiments isn't really trustworthy -- as human beings we are 
incredibly subjective, and that colors everything we touch, no matter 
how hard we try for objectivity.

You are right that statistical evidence is in some respects superior to 
anecdotal evidence (and certainly more trusted by our society), 
*provided* that everyone involved realizes its limitations and biases.  
Personally, however, I'm very cynical towards statistics in general -- 
esp. any I might have found online -- and therefore didn't bother to 
get any.

When I'm not just arguing for the sake of arguing (it's a bad habit, 
sorry), my preferred type of evidence is the Expert Opinion of someone 
I have a reason to trust, although the problem with this is that other 
people may not have any reason to also trust the people that I cite.  
For instance, I know quite a few adults that work in psychology, 
therapy, and/or child services, plus several that are foster parents.  
These people all tell me that it is nearly impossible to convict (or 
even bring to trial) an adult on charges of child abuse and that 
children in foster homes are often sent back to mothers addicted to 
drugs and abusive boyfriends.  This information is enough to satisfy 
*me* that I'm right, however I can see why others might dismiss it 
entirely -- technically, I could be *gasp*  making it all up.

However, an impartial Expert Opinion (that everyone will accept or even 
*should* accept) is nearly impossible to find on the public internet, 
and I was not about to do any *real*, heavy-duty research to prove my 
point to some guy on OTC.

> Don't the relevant authorities *publish* statistics on the incidence 
> of people being
> arrested for child abuse, the proportion of succesful convictions,
> the regional variations in such data, and so on?

Who are the relevant authorities, though?  I haven't studied this 
particular topic, but in the case of the death penalty, I know both 
pro- and anti- sites use the same *government* statistics to prove 
whether or not the death penalty has a deterrent effect (and, 
obviously, they get different answers).

And it's pretty useless to try to interpret raw government statistics 
(which have inherent biases anyway) on your own, unless you're an 
actual expert on the subject.

> Such statistics
> don't necessarily resolve the issues (is an increase due to crimes
> formerly missed now being cleared up or is it over-zealous
> officialdom?) but they do help to define more clearly where the
> argument, if any, really is.

I'm not really sure what you mean by "where the argument is", exactly.  
Could you clarify that?  Also, you really can't dismiss the issue you 
mentioned parenthetically, or the fact that certain laws and guidelines 
for removing children/pressing charges have changed between time 
periods, or that our society's definition of humane treatment of other 
human beings has also changed . . . I could list these problems 
forever, believe me.

The fact is that there are too many things that factor into a statistic 
like how many people are charged with child abuse per year, and these 
factors range from everything from economical issues to sociological 
ones. Trying to compare such a statistic from the 90's to one in, say, 
the 50's is very complicated at best and completely useless at worst.  
IMO, it would be as informative as comparing apples and oranges and 
trying to prove, empirically, that one tastes better than the other.

> IMO, properly marshalled information trumps any amount of my-friend-
> was-in-a-mall-and-saw-the-police-stand-by-and-hold-the-coats-of-a-
> gang-of-youths-while-they-beat-up-an-old-man anecdotes.

Well, yes -- but "properly marshaled information" is hard to come by 
and doesn't always mean the same thing to everyone who looks at it.

> In the same way, I don't think it's beyond the wit of most HPFGU
> members to set out in a dispassionate way the issues that bear on a
> political decision such as that to invade a foreign country,
> delineate the areas of uncertainty that would need resolving (and in
> practice might require the resources of government to resolve), and
> then assess whether in fact the public decision-making process did
> address the relevant issues and uncertainties.  It's not rocket
> science (unless the decision is whether to send a mission to Mars),
> though it perhaps does take more time than most of us would really
> like to spend.

Amen to that last bit, although I would argue that all the information 
needed to make a decision like invading another country is not (and 
will likely never be) available to the public -- and even if it were, 
such a decision is ultimately a judgment call, complete with moral 
issues and trade-offs.  Personally, I know hardly anything about the 
Iraq situation (although, in general, I am against war) and am always 
amazed at the number of people who will cheerfully make very strong 
opinions about the matter based on even less knowledge than *I* have.  
I suppose this is inevitable, really, and I certainly can't say that 
I've never formed an ill-informed opinion before, but . . . surely, 
people realize that the decision to attack another country is a far 
more complicated matter than "War is wrong!" or "Death to Saddam!" ?

Laura (who apologizes if this post is difficult to read -- there are 
bound to be mistakes in wording, as there wasn't enough time to proof 
it properly.)




From dicentra at xmission.com  Thu Mar 25 02:30:19 2004
From: dicentra at xmission.com (Dicentra spectabilis)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 02:30:19 -0000
Subject: The Multiplicity of Planets
In-Reply-To: <002201c406fd$5694c760$05030f04@dslverizon.net>
Message-ID: <c3tg7r+udaj@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Silverthorne"
<silverthorne.dragon at v...> wrote:

> Hell, we're only NOW coming to grips with the idea that life can and 
> DOES exist on some other planet than ours--and doesn't that just
> blow the centuries old, 'mainstream' ideas of our place in the 
> universe VIA the various holy texts (you know, where this is the 
> 'only' world, created by God...and we are the only intelligent
> beings, made in his image, the chosen ones etc)...?

I don't remember reading that particular doctrine in the Bible.  (Is
it in the Koran?)  The concept of the uniqueness of Earth is something
that got added at some point during Christianity's long history.  Or
maybe it was present in Judaism prior to the Christian era.  Sheez, I
don't know...  (If I were in the mood, I might try to track down the
era in which it was introduced.)

My own religious tradition (the same as Sci-Fi writer Orson Scott
Card) holds that God has numerous planets, all in different stages of
development and all of them ultimately populated by his offspring, and
that creating and populating planets is What God Does All Day.

Which means, at least to me, that the idea of life on other planets
doesn't challenge the Bible at all -- just a particular doctrine that
was inferred from it.

I don't know for sure, but this doctrine might derive from a peculiar
notion we humans hold: rarity = value.  Sand is common, so it's almost
devoid of monetary value, but pink diamonds are rare, so we pay big
bank for them.  It's a purely market-driven value system.  

I would contend, on the other hand, that from the universe's point of
view (assuming it has one :D), valuable or needed things exist in
abundance, and less-valuable things are rare, because they aren't
needed as much.  

It always boggles my mind when people say that they contemplate the
universe on a starry night and feel insignificant.  Why insignificant?
   I usually get totally psyched on occasions like that, because I
sense that I'm a part of a really cool system of existence, most of
which I don't comprehend but am eager to learn about.

And then there's the vertigo that comes from sitting in a campground
in Canyonlands Natl. Park and noticing that without the light and air
pollution of the city, the stars are just as clear at the horizon as
at the top of the sky, which reminds you that the earth is an orb
that's just hanging there in the sky -- naked and unashamed -- with no
fishing line holding it in place.

--Dicentra, who screams "terraform! terraform!" each time news of
water comes from Mars




From mckosvc at bmts.com  Thu Mar 25 03:16:27 2004
From: mckosvc at bmts.com (ovc88guelph)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 03:16:27 -0000
Subject: the point of argument
In-Reply-To: <FBC458AC-7DE3-11D8-94CF-000A95E29F3E@fandm.edu>
Message-ID: <c3tiub+pr24@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, Laura Ingalls Huntley 
<lhuntley at f...> wrote:
 
> David Witley:
> > The thing that puzzed me (and frequently does in arguments of 
this
> > type) is that many of the subjects that seem to generate the most
> > heat seem seem to  be empirical matters that could be settled 
with
> > recourse to official statistics and the like.
> 
Laura wrote 
> Even a body of hard, replicable data from controlled *scientific* 
> experiments isn't really trustworthy -- as human beings we are 
> incredibly subjective, and that colors everything we touch, no 
matter 
> how hard we try for objectivity.
> 
> You are right that statistical evidence is in some respects 
superior to 
> anecdotal evidence (and certainly more trusted by our society), 
> *provided* that everyone involved realizes its limitations and 
biases.  
> Personally, however, I'm very cynical towards statistics in 
general -- 

..., my preferred type of evidence is the Expert Opinion of someone 
> I have a reason to trust, although the problem with this is that 
other 
> people may not have any reason to also trust the people that I 
cite.  

> 
> However, an impartial Expert Opinion (that everyone will accept or 
even 
> *should* accept) is nearly impossible to find on the public 
internet, 

(David again)> 
> > IMO, properly marshalled information trumps any amount of my-
friend-
> > was-in-a-mall-and-saw-the-police-stand-by-and-hold-the-coats-of-
a-
> > gang-of-youths-while-they-beat-up-an-old-man anecdotes.

(Back to Laura) 
> Well, yes -- but "properly marshaled information" is hard to come 
by 
> and doesn't always mean the same thing to everyone who looks at it.
> 


Now me,
    First, let me apologize to Laura and David for liberally 
snipping amongst their comments. Please don't take offense to having 
your comments taken out of context. It's just that this conversation 
illustrates something interesting to me about how people gather 
information. I wonder what it is that makes new information 
believable. I think this is an incredible dilemma in our society and 
it worries me. 
     Here is what I see to be the problem. We are presented with 
information in two basic ways, either as "fact or statistic or 
scientific study" or "anecdote or personal experience". (I will not 
lump "expert testimony" in to a category, because it could fall into 
either!) Scientific information makes people very skeptical, because 
as Laura pointed out, statistics can be manipulated. But 
unfortunately, I see a tendency to "throw the baby out with the bath 
water", meaning that people distrust all scientific data as flawed. 
We do not know how to discern how truthful scientific information is 
because it is presented in a complex way. On the other hand, 
anecdotal information seems very trustworthy because we can 
understand the way in which the information is presented to us. Yet 
what is the value of the experience of one or even a few individuals 
in the greater scheme of things? Anecdotes from well intentioned 
individuals may be right, wrong, or meaningless; anecdotes from 
people with an agenda (eg a product to sell) are quite likely 
biased. Unfortunately, the same can be said of scientific data. So 
where does that leave us? Laura has suggested "impartial Expert 
Opinion", but this again leaves me wondering how "impartial" 
or "expert" that opinion is. I notice on the news (when I bother to 
watch nightly newscasts) that "expert" testimony simply means 
presenting two people of opposing views, not necessarily presenting 
evidence of the two points of view! This has been brought home to me 
on occasions where I am very well versed on a news topic and then am 
forced to listen to a supposed "expert" whom I know to be an 
ignoramus with a microphone. 
    Personally, I tend to give more weight to scientific evidence. 
Over time, I think that science winnows out the flawed information. 
I don't know how as a society we can solve this dilemma, though. 

MMcK.   




From pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk  Thu Mar 25 10:27:17 2004
From: pipdowns at etchells0.demon.co.uk (bluesqueak)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:27:17 -0000
Subject: OT: Concert Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <002201c406fd$5694c760$05030f04@dslverizon.net>
Message-ID: <c3uc65+6tvc@eGroups.com>

 Silverthorne writes:


> Hell, we're only NOW coming to grips with the idea that life can  
> and DOES exist on some other
> planet than ours--and doesn't that just blow the centuries old,
> 'mainstream' ideas of our place in the universe VIA the various 
> holy texts(you know, where this is the 'only' world, created by 
> God...and we are the only intelligent beings, made in his image, 
the chosen ones etc)...?

Pip!Squeak:

Dicey's already pointed out that this notion doesn't fit with the 
bible. It doesn't even fit with mainstream Christianity up to about 
maybe the eighteenth or nineteenth century. Sorry.

The idea that 'man' was the pinnacle of creation (and I use 'man' 
deliberately) is against the medieval Christian notion of the 
universe. In that view of the universe, God created Angels *first*, 
and they were superior to human beings. Some angels fell through 
disobedience, and they became devils. Humans were most certainly 
*not* the only intelligent beings in creation. 

They weren't even the superior beings: humans rank between the 
Angels and the Devils; not a bad description of the human condition 
really. The Earth was created solely for the use of human beings - 
but frankly, it wasn't that great a place (the Fall, you know 
[grin]). 

Dante took a Fourteenth Century tour of the planets - he imagined 
them as part of heaven, full of angels and the souls of the dead. 
But he knew that they were places other than Earth. [He also knew 
perfectly well that the world was round, to destroy another myth 
about 'wot we thought back then'.]

'We are the only intelligent life in the entire universe' is more a 
scientific, post Renaissance view, 'man is the pinnacle of creation' 
derives more from people misusing Darwin's ideas about evolution. 
Neither is a particularly Christian idea. Even the biblical idea of 
God choosing us often has the distinct flavour of a Royal Marine 
sergeant staring in disbelief at the latest batch of recruits. 

*This* is what I have to work with? God chose *you*? 

:-)




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Thu Mar 25 12:33:16 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:33:16 -0000
Subject: Angels, humans and rank (was OT: Concert Etiquette)
In-Reply-To: <c3uc65+6tvc@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3ujic+8veh@eGroups.com>

Pip wrote (speaking in the context of Christianity):

> Humans were most certainly 
> *not* the only intelligent beings in creation. 
> 
> They weren't even the superior beings: humans rank between the 
> Angels and the Devils; not a bad description of the human 
condition 
> really. The Earth was created solely for the use of human beings - 
> but frankly, it wasn't that great a place (the Fall, you know 
> [grin]). 

This caught my eye, and it has a distinct advantage as a topic for 
debate as our conclusions can't be verified by recourse to official 
statistics ;-)

I think there are different conceptions of 'rank' here.  Since 
devils (or demons, thrones, principalities, powers etc) are fallen 
angels, they have the same status as angels in terms of creation.  
In terms of delegated authority from God, both angels and devils are 
temporarily ranked above humans.  However, for devils this is 
definitely temporary, and for angels it may be too: the book of 
Hebrews implies that Jesus (as son of God) was temporarily made 
subject to angelic government (ie he lived on earth), so that he 
could lead humans, who are in the same condition, back to his own, 
superior, condition: 'bringing many sons to glory', understood both 
now and at the time to include women.

I think that the idea of man as 'pinnacle' does have a basis in the 
Bible, as the incarnation was apparently a unique event *as far as 
our planet is concerned*.

None of this, I think, has any bearing on the biblical view of 
whether other worlds can be or are inhabited by intelligent, or 
morally capable, beings.  (By Bible I mean the Hebrew/Aramaic canon 
of 39 books plus the 27 books of the New Testament.)

David




From silverthorne.dragon at verizon.net  Thu Mar 25 13:24:15 2004
From: silverthorne.dragon at verizon.net (Silverthorne)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 7:24:15 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: OT: Concert Etiquette
Message-ID: <20040325132415.TAVN1464.out001.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net>

{Pipsqueak}

'We are the only intelligent life in the entire universe' is more a 
scientific, post Renaissance view, 'man is the pinnacle of creation' 
derives more from people misusing Darwin's ideas about evolution. 
Neither is a particularly Christian idea. Even the biblical idea of 
God choosing us often has the distinct flavour of a Royal Marine 
sergeant staring in disbelief at the latest batch of recruits. 

*This* is what I have to work with? God chose *you*? 


{Silverthorne}

**Laughs at that quote**

Ah, glad to know then that from the time I left the Catholic church in 1983, and Christianity totally in 1989 (Which is where *I* learned that many monotheists believe the obviously misinformed idea that 'we are God's Only Children'), that that opionion has changed in the Christian mainstream at the least. ^^ And here I thought it was just the 'evolved' monotheists such as my Prophesy Student (and believer in The End) Lifemate who had gotten over that sticking point.

Again, sorry for the generalization (that does seem to be what gets everyone in trouble, doesn't it?), but I've spent more time arguing things like "well, what about the people who have never heard of Christianty--you mean to tell me *they* go to hell too? even if they died before they ever had the chance to see The Book?". I got tired of that after awhile. Finally walked away from talking to people from my 'mother religion' because of it.

Despite statistics, education, and so forth (All of which you brought to the table, Squeak, thank you, and I really *do* mean that.), my *personal* experience has been that a great many people (mislead by thier spiritual leaders and the interpretations they make of the words in the Bible), do indeed beleive that "We Are the Only Ones'--which leads to discussions on who is 'worthy' to be in heaven, whether or not there's intelligent life (or even just life at all) on some other planet somewhere, and so forth, and usually, the answer I get it "That's a nice theory, but God said..."

Now whether or not the "thinking" religious community agrees is another story, but then I look at it this way--if you were one of the ones being falsely led around by the religious nose, you wouldn't be here reading Harry Potter in the first place, right? (After all, at least in American, there was a short, but loud outcry that HP was 'teaching children witchcraft' and should be banned...O.O).

I think the problem with the whole discussion (and thus one of the reasons I dropped it) was because both Laura and I were speaking from our own personal experiences--not from statistics, not from 'fact' or study (neither one of us reached further than our 'friends' and 'contacts'--all of whom, we would both have to admit if we were being honest, are still limited by thier living area and personal experiences as well). And although 'cold hard figures' may (or may not) carry the burdeon of proof, what it all boiled down to is that we were having a 'personal' argument as opposed to a 'factual' one.

Now, I suppose you guys can pick apart what I had to say until the cows come home (or evolution teaches them to fly, or God instantly makes a flying cow himself...^^;), but at this point, it seems more like nitpicking to see if I'll respond. Let it drop for now, please, until another subject comes up where it's *worth* discussing all of this--at this point, it seems more like you're picking at the bones just to pick.

Tnanks
Silverthorne


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 25 13:43:05 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:43:05 -0000
Subject: Angels, humans and rank (was OT: Concert Etiquette)
In-Reply-To: <c3ujic+8veh@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3unl9+m8a0@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "davewitley"
<dfrankiswork at n...> wrote:

> I think that the idea of man as 'pinnacle' does have a basis in the 
> Bible, as the incarnation was apparently a unique event *as far as 
> our planet is concerned*.

Annemehr:
I think even that may be saying too much, if I'm not way off base
here.  What I mean is, the Bible has a very limited purpose as far as
I can tell.  It exists to explain "here is what went wrong with the
human race, here is what God is doing about it, here is what you can
do to cooperate, oh, and here is a tiny hint about what it might be
like in heaven if you do (and a few more hints about if you don't)." 
Any hint about man ending up higher than angels I hesitate to take
literally since I'm not at all sure we know enough to understand what
that's supposed to mean, and anyway the idea of "rank" doesn't seem to
mesh well with my (pitiful, I'm sure) idea of "heaven."  Other planets
and their inhabitants, and what God may or may not have had to do for
them doesn't come into it at all.

There's not even anything in the bible about our relationship to the
animals on our own planet, really, let alone how many other worlds
there are with beings on them.  There are even quite a few moral
questions not really dealt with but left for us to work out on our own
on the basis of love of God and neighbor.
> 
> None of this, I think, has any bearing on the biblical view of 
> whether other worlds can be or are inhabited by intelligent, or 
> morally capable, beings.  (By Bible I mean the Hebrew/Aramaic canon 
> of 39 books plus the 27 books of the New Testament.)
> 
> David

And I'm agreeing with you, as well as rambling on a bit with my own
personal ideas -- even though I'm sure some people are going to be
rolling their eyes at the latter... oh, well, that's all right.  I
just think there's going to be so much more to "everything" that we've
never dreamed of, that we'll find out about once this little matter of
evil is dealt with...

Annemehr




From stevejjen at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 25 16:52:04 2004
From: stevejjen at earthlink.net (Jen Reese)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:52:04 -0000
Subject: Leaky Cauldron Access
Message-ID: <c3v2nk+9rj3@eGroups.com>

When I tried to open the Leaky Cauldron link this morning, I got a 
security alert and it wouldn't open without my verifying 
some "certificate". 

What is this? Is it just my firewall, Zone Alarm? This hasn't 
happened before, esp. to links I access all the time. 

Jen, hoping a computer expert will come to the rescue!




From heidit at netbox.com  Thu Mar 25 16:54:53 2004
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:54:53 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Leaky Cauldron Access
In-Reply-To: <c3v2nk+9rj3@eGroups.com>
References: <c3v2nk+9rj3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1080233698.1B6656C@s29.dngr.org>

We are having bandwith issues. You can find us today at 
http://www.livejournal.com/~leaky_inc instead.


On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:53am, Jen Reese wrote:
> Real-To:  "Jen Reese" <stevejjen at earthlink.net>
>
> When I tried to open the Leaky Cauldron link this morning, I got a
> security alert and it wouldn't open without my verifying
> some "certificate".
>
> What is this? Is it just my firewall, Zone Alarm? This hasn't
> happened before, esp. to links I access all the time.
>
> Jen, hoping a computer expert will come to the rescue!
>
>
>
> ________HPFGU______Hexquarters______Announcement_______________
>
> Before posting to any HPFGU list, you MUST read the group's Admin 
> Files!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%20Files/
>
> Please use accurate subject headings and snip unnecessary material from 
> posts to which you're replying!
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>



From bboy_mn at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 25 23:20:12 2004
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:20:12 -0000
Subject: Leaky Cauldron Access
In-Reply-To: <c3v2nk+9rj3@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3vpfc+4pn4@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Jen Reese" <stevejjen at e...>
wrote:
> When I tried to open the Leaky Cauldron link this morning, I got a 
> security alert and it wouldn't open without my verifying 
> some "certificate". 
> 
> What is this? Is it just my firewall, Zone Alarm? This hasn't 
> happened before, esp. to links I access all the time. 
> 
> Jen, hoping a computer expert will come to the rescue!

bboy_mn:

I don't think the Certificate request was a problem. There are several
Security Certificates on your computer, and they are there for your
safety. I've yet to hear of any of these being misused. For example,
I've never heard of a virus getting into a computer via a security
certificate.

The major moderator and issuer of certificates is Verisign. These
certificates are related to encoding/encripting data that is
transferred between you and certain websites. It is also used to
authenticate both parties to make sure someone isn't pretending to be
you or pretending to be a certain website. (Overly generalized
explanation to be sure)

I think the certificate request came up because you were re-directed
to the HOST website rather than to the Leaky Cauldron website. The
HOST saw you as a new user who was trying to access the administration
tools for the Leaky Cauldron, and wanted to create a new certificate
to assure safe communication between you and the administration sight.

Since you will virtually never have anything to do with the
administration of the Leaky Cauldron, it doesn't matter whether you
accepted or rejected the certificate.

Steve/bboy_mn




From bboy_mn at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 25 23:57:32 2004
From: bboy_mn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:57:32 -0000
Subject: Free Computer Experts to the Rescue
Message-ID: <c3vrlc+t2tu@eGroups.com>

Occassionally, we all have computer problems, and need some help, well
I have two excellent websites that I go to for my answers even though
I worked as a computer tech-support professional. 

Here you have access to experts from around the world and to every
aspect of computing. AND, the very best part is, it is FREE FREE FREE.

Virtual DR-
- Operating systems, and software questions.

http://discussions.virtualdr.com/index.php?s=

Hardware Central-
- Answers to a full range of hardware questions

http://discussions.hardwarecentral.com/

Combining these two sites, I have posted answers to about 1,500
questions over the years.

The search facilities are good, and there is a good chance your
question has already been asked.

You can search and read without joining, but if you want to post, you
have to join. However, this is a non-commerial site, and they will NOT
misuse the personal information you give them, and they will NOT flood
you with email. All discussions are moderated.

To see the information you must provide to become a member, here is a
link to my Virtual Dr. profile-

http://discussions.virtualdr.com/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=4637

These are both EXCELLENT sites for tech support and computer
discussion, everything is free, and you have access to volunteer
experts from around the world.

I HIGHLY recommend it.

Steve/bboy_mn





From confusedandpronetowander at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 25 16:39:24 2004
From: confusedandpronetowander at hotmail.com (BelleDameSansMerci)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:39:24 -0000
Subject: the point of argument- scientific v anecdotal
In-Reply-To: <c3tiub+pr24@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3v1vs+go19@eGroups.com>

<<<Scientific information makes people very skeptical, because
as Laura pointed out, statistics can be manipulated. But
unfortunately, I see a tendency to "throw the baby out with the bath
water", meaning that people distrust all scientific data as flawed.
We do not know how to discern how truthful scientific information is
because it is presented in a complex way. On the other hand,
anecdotal information seems very trustworthy because we can
understand the way in which the information is presented to us. Yet
what is the value of the experience of one or even a few individuals
in the greater scheme of things? Anecdotes from well intentioned
individuals may be right, wrong, or meaningless; anecdotes from
people with an agenda (eg a product to sell) are quite likely
biased. Unfortunately, the same can be said of scientific data. So
where does that leave us? >>>

This is a really interesting dilemma. I'm getting ready to start my 
Masters degree in criminology, and the one thing that my undergrad 
has taught me is that you have to be careful with both scientific and 
anecdotal evidence, as everyone has an agenda, a political view, or a 
moral position that inevitably ends up tainting their perspective or 
opinion, no matter how much of an 'expert' they are in a given field.

The collection of 'scientific' data is rarely done by an impartial 
party. For instance, when the government collects data on its 
agencies and programs, it has vested interest in how the result read. 
There are so many spins put on the collected information, not to 
mention the discrepancy in what samples are used and from what areas, 
that I have a hard time seeing it as credible information. In terms 
of the data collected from other organizations, they usually also 
have vested interest what their results say- they don't want to show 
they their programs or organization is failing (and if they do, it is 
usually an appeal for more funding). My main problem when doing 
research this year has been finding that a great deal of studies on 
various criminal justice initiatives are actually undertaken by its 
creators- or its competitors. I have at times run into two articles 
examining the exact same data, one of which says something along the 
lines of "This program has been shown effective with HALF of the 
participants, which is a monumental discovery".....and then you 
inevitably get "This program HAS ONLY been show effective in 50% of 
the participants, so obviously it is not good enough".

In terms of expert opinion- experts are not immune to such things as 
political agenda or moral point of view.  For instance, my professors 
are considered experts in their fields....however I find that where 
they fit morally and politically definitely affects how they dispense 
and interpret information. Those that are more on the political 
right, and have a fixed view of morality, will not necessarily 
embrace or take seriously information that is not compatible with 
this point of view (ex- they tend to dismiss arguments about the 
ineffectiveness of prisons, no matter how sound the information is). 
On the other hand, those on the political left with very different 
views of morality do the exact same thing with the arguments made by 
the right. Whenever there is "expert testimony" in court, the other 
side always brings forth another "expert" in the field, who 
inevitably has a different point of view. You just can't win.

I personally tend to go with my own experiences and interpretations 
on things...if I'm dealing with statistics, I will try to interpret 
the raw data myself. If I'm using expert opinion, I'll try to find 
the arguments by another expert that discounts this, and see which 
argument I find stronger. However, at the moment, the source of data 
I find the most credible are the opinions and observations of those 
laymen who are actually in the middle of the situation. For instance, 
instead of going to what the data says about why women commit crime, 
or to the 'experts' in the field, I prefer to go to the women 
themselves and hear about their own experiences, in their own words, 
about their lives and what lead them to this point.

So......that is my long-winded opinion about expert v scientific 
evidence. Sorry for wasting a couple minutes of your time!

While I'm here, I may as well comment on the whole "how easy is it to 
get a child removed from the home" thing. I live in Ontario Canada, 
where this falls under Childrens Aid, and I work in the forensics 
ward of a psychiatric facility. I can tell you right now, from what I 
have experienced, and from what I have heard from a few friends who 
work in CAS (hahaha- once again- anecdotal- take it or leave it), 
it's not as hard as one may think to have a child removed from the 
home here in Ontario. 

Usually, if a complaint is made they are taken from the home that day 
in order to asses them and the situation. If there are grounds and 
the complaint has been found to be valid, they are either removed 
from the home for a period of time while the parent(s) get treatment, 
processed by the justice system, etc., or are returned to the home, 
but under supervision and conditions. Often, if the complaint is 
relatively minor, the latter is usually the best option for all 
parties involved, as it causes the least trauma to the children. 
However, if there is even the HINT that anything sexually 
inappropriate is involved, the kid(s) is out of there immediately, 
whether the accusation was real or not. 

~Cheers All~

Amber 





From stevejjen at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 26 01:39:12 2004
From: stevejjen at earthlink.net (Jen Reese)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 01:39:12 -0000
Subject: Leaky Cauldron Access
In-Reply-To: <c3vpfc+4pn4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c401k0+8tk2@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboy_mn at y...> wrote:
> 
> I don't think the Certificate request was a problem. There are 
several
> Security Certificates on your computer, and they are there for your
> safety. I've yet to hear of any of these being misused. For 
example,
> I've never heard of a virus getting into a computer via a security
> certificate.
<snipping of explanation>


Thank you, Steve, for this explanation and the links you provided 
for *FREE* computer help. I always know if I ask a question on 
Chatter, someone will know the answer.

Jen, much wiser since she joined HPFGU




From dfrankiswork at netscape.net  Sat Mar 27 01:28:35 2004
From: dfrankiswork at netscape.net (davewitley)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 01:28:35 -0000
Subject: OMG
Message-ID: <c42lc3+lbf4@eGroups.com>

http://www.livejournal.com/community/parryhotter/570467.html

Words fail me.

David




From silverthorne.dragon at verizon.net  Sat Mar 27 01:36:51 2004
From: silverthorne.dragon at verizon.net (Silverthorne)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:36:51 -0600
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] OMG
References: <c42lc3+lbf4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <000301c4139b$fb57a420$05030f04@dslverizon.net>

http://www.livejournal.com/community/parryhotter/570467.html

Words fail me.

David

*************************************************

Ooooookaaaaayyyyyyy....

You know, Alan Rickman making Snape easier on the audience's eyes is one
thing...but those pictures....are just....um.. they're just....just....

Oh god....

Someone please help...I think my brain is going into lock-up mode **resists
urge to dive for sketch books in an attempt to adjust anime style in order
to more accurately draw the HP characters....O.O**

Anne





From siskiou at msn.com  Sat Mar 27 01:58:09 2004
From: siskiou at msn.com (Susanne)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:58:09 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] OMG
In-Reply-To: <c42lc3+lbf4@eGroups.com>
References: <c42lc3+lbf4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1941084091.20040326175809@msn.com>



Hi,

Friday, March 26, 2004, 5:28:35 PM, dfrankiswork at netscape.net wrote:

> http://www.livejournal.com/community/parryhotter/570467.html

> Words fail me.

Thanks for posting this!

My daughter and I are laughing ourselves silly! :)

-- 
Best regards,
 Susanne                           mailto:siskiou at msn.com





From fakeplastikcynic at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 27 13:56:43 2004
From: fakeplastikcynic at hotmail.com (Lady Martha)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 13:56:43 -0000
Subject: OMG
In-Reply-To: <c42lc3+lbf4@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c4416r+g43b@eGroups.com>

David:

 http://www.livejournal.com/community/parryhotter/570467.html
> 
> Words fail me.


Martha:

This is the funniest thing I have seen in a long time - thank you!

My favourites are Sirius in disco-dancing-cave-dweller mode, and Mad-
Eye Moody as played by Jim Carrey (??) in "The Mask", not forgetting 
that wonderful Hammer Horror-style Voldemort and Lilly [sic] Potter.

Still giggling like a schoolgirl,

Martha




From eloiseherisson at aol.com  Sat Mar 27 15:47:06 2004
From: eloiseherisson at aol.com (eloiseherisson at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 10:47:06 EST
Subject: The Multiplicity of Planets
Message-ID: <1ec.1c61c4e3.2d96fbfa@aol.com>

Silverthorne:
> > Hell, we're only NOW coming to grips with the idea that life can and 
> > DOES exist on some other planet than ours--and doesn't that just
> > blow the centuries old, 'mainstream' ideas of our place in the 
> > universe VIA the various holy texts (you know, where this is the 
> > 'only' world, created by God...and we are the only intelligent
> > beings, made in his image, the chosen ones etc)...?

Dicentra: 
> I don't remember reading that particular doctrine in the Bible.  (Is
> it in the Koran?)  The concept of the uniqueness of Earth is something
> that got added at some point during Christianity's long history.  Or
> maybe it was present in Judaism prior to the Christian era.  Sheez, I
> don't know...  (If I were in the mood, I might try to track down the
> era in which it was introduced.)

Eloise:
I guess it's kind of implied in the creation narrative(s). God made the earth 
and the sun, moon and stars are just there to service it with light, warmth 
and some pretty, twinkly decoration. It was certainly there, at least in the 
sense of exalting the earth's part in creation, in the church's refusal to 
accept the idea of a heliocentric solar system.

Dicentra:  
> My own religious tradition (the same as Sci-Fi writer Orson Scott
> Card) holds that God has numerous planets, all in different stages of
> development and all of them ultimately populated by his offspring, and
> that creating and populating planets is What God Does All Day.

Eloise:
I doubt there's a standard Anglican viewpoint on this. ;-)

Dicentra: 
> Which means, at least to me, that the idea of life on other planets
> doesn't challenge the Bible at all -- just a particular doctrine that
> was inferred from it.

Eloise:
No, it doesn't to me. The idea that we could be totally alone in this vast 
universe, that we could be the only beings that a caring creator, if such there 
be, is concerned with just seems inconceivable. 

Dicentra:  
> I don't know for sure, but this doctrine might derive from a peculiar
> notion we humans hold: rarity = value.  Sand is common, so it's almost
> devoid of monetary value, but pink diamonds are rare, so we pay big
> bank for them.  It's a purely market-driven value system.  

Eloise:
It could well do. Or simply from that inner need that most humans have to 
feel special, I guess.

Dicentra: 
> I would contend, on the other hand, that from the universe's point of
> view (assuming it has one :D), valuable or needed things exist in
> abundance, and less-valuable things are rare, because they aren't
> needed as much.  > 
> It always boggles my mind when people say that they contemplate the
> universe on a starry night and feel insignificant.  Why insignificant?

Eloise:
Aah.
Well, it's kind of being put into a minor version of the Total Perspective 
Vortex, isn't it?

I get it. It's not that it's feeling insignificant in the sense of "I'm so 
worthless, what's the point?" as insignificant in the

3???When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the 
stars, which thou hast ordained;
4???What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou 
visitest him?
5???For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned 
him with glory and honour.
6???Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast 
put all things under his feet:
7???All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;


I think it's insignificant in the 'I'm so small compared to all this 
vastness' way.
It's kind of humbling, realising that I'm a tiny sentient speck on a speck of 
dust in a unverse of infinite size.

Dicentra: 
>    I usually get totally psyched on occasions like that, because I
> sense that I'm a part of a really cool system of existence, most of
> which I don't comprehend but am eager to learn about.

Eloise:
I'm just amazed that I exist at all. ;-) and even more so that I'm actually 
*aware* of existing.

Dicentra:   
> And then there's the vertigo that comes from sitting in a campground
> in Canyonlands Natl. Park and noticing that without the light and air
> pollution of the city, the stars are just as clear at the horizon as
> at the top of the sky, which reminds you that the earth is an orb
> that's just hanging there in the sky -- naked and unashamed -- with no
> fishing line holding it in place.

Eloise:
Aah. You're lucky. I don't think there are many places in the UK where you 
can actually *see* the stars in all their glory these days. I've been very 
struck by it in recent weeks. We've had some nights that have been exceptionally 
clear; that's been evident by the steadiness and clarity of the stars that were 
visible, but only a fraction of them *were* visible with our light skies. I 
find it incredibly frustrating and a matter of great sadness that my own 
children cannot see the heavens as I did when I was their age. I don't remember the 
last time I actually saw the Milky Way and I don't even live in a proper town.

> --Dicentra, who screams "terraform! terraform!" each time news of
> water comes from Mars

Why? Are you thinkng of emigrating?

~Eloise


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From neonsister at ameritech.net  Sat Mar 27 19:35:43 2004
From: neonsister at ameritech.net (neonsister at ameritech.net)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:35:43 -0000
Subject: OMG
In-Reply-To: <c4416r+g43b@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c44l2f+jqjm@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Lady Martha" 
<fakeplastikcynic at h...> wrote:
" My favourites are Sirius in disco-dancing-cave-dweller mode"...

lol!  I thought he sort of resembled John the Baptist in the 
wilderness, but your description is great!

Tracy




From siskiou at msn.com  Sat Mar 27 19:47:27 2004
From: siskiou at msn.com (Susanne)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:47:27 -0800
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Re: OMG
In-Reply-To: <c44l2f+jqjm@eGroups.com>
References: <c4416r+g43b@eGroups.com> <c44l2f+jqjm@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <551459040.20040327114727@msn.com>



Hi,

Saturday, March 27, 2004, 11:35:43 AM, neonsister at ameritech.net wrote:

> <fakeplastikcynic at h...> wrote:
> " My favourites are Sirius in
> disco-dancing-cave-dweller mode"...

> lol!  I thought he sort of resembled John the Baptist in the
> wilderness, but your description is great!

My twelve year old daughter, who is just reading "The Clan
of the Cave Bear", thought Sirius would have fit in well
with the Clan :)

-- 
Best regards,
 Susanne                           mailto:siskiou at msn.com





From erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 27 23:23:34 2004
From: erisedstraeh2002 at yahoo.com (Phyllis)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 23:23:34 -0000
Subject: Extension of Convention Alley Early Registration
Message-ID: <c452dm+3oiq@eGroups.com>

The Convention Alley Planning Committee is pleased to announce the
extension of early registration from March 30, 2004 to April 30,
2004. Registering on or before April 30, 2004 costs $200.00
Canadian, while registering on or after May 1, 2004 costs $250.00
Canadian.

Please note that the cost figures are listed in Canadian dollars.
While the conversion is subject to change depending on the value of
the Canadian dollar, $200 Canadian currently equals approximately
$151 in American dollars (for registrations before May 1, 2004), and
$250 Canadian currently equals approximately $189 in American dollars
(for registrations between May 1, 2004 and July 1, 2004).

The registration fee provides admission to all of the daytime
programming sessions, light refreshments at Friday's meet and greet,
breakfast and lunch on Saturday and Sunday (with guest speaker Judith
Robertson at Sunday's luncheon), Saturday evening's birthday banquet
(with keynote speaker Steve Vander Ark), admission to the Prisoner of
Azkaban movie on Saturday evening and admission to such areas as the
vendor marketplace and games room. In addition, the registration fee
covers the cost of producing the conference proceedings (a
compliation of the papers presented at the conference), a copy of
which will be provided to each participant on Friday.

Convention Alley will be held at the University of Ottawa from
Friday, July 30 through Sunday, August 1, 2004. For more
information, or to register, please visit:
http://www.conventionalley.org/.

~Phyllis Morris
for the 2004 Convention Alley Planning Committee




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Sun Mar 28 10:45:40 2004
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 20:45:40 +1000
Subject: Help with convention game
In-Reply-To: <c452dm+3oiq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <40673974.30676.1591B53@localhost>

As some people know for the last two years, I've designed and run 
Harry Potter games (Harry Potter and the Deadly Choice, Harry 
Potter and the Crown of the Warrior Queen) at the Easter RPG 
Convention, Conquest in Melbourne.

Well, in less than two weeks I'm doing so again. This time it's 
"Harry Potter and the Heir of Ravenclaw."

Anyway, I'm working on the game, and there's a few things that 
would be rather handy if I could find them. They're not critical - 
but they could be useful. I've no idea if they are available.

The characters in the game are going to be Ravenclaw students - and 
it would be marvellous for their character sheets if I could find 
*images* of Ravenclaw students. I know there's a lot of fan art 
around - and I thought maybe people here might be able to refer to 
sites where people have drawn more minor characters - I realise 
it's possible nobody has, and I am working out plans to deal with 
that - but I thought I'd ask.

By the same token - does anyone know of sites with significant 
numbers of movie images - I may be able to use those. More 
difficult in terms of Copyright, but possible.

Anyone got any links?

I should make it quite clear that I don't steal images. If I do 
find anything I can use, I am going to ask permission of the 
artists before using it - and if they don't want them used it won't 
be used.

But I'd like to get images if I can.


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From heidit at netbox.com  Sun Mar 28 11:07:55 2004
From: heidit at netbox.com (Heidi Tandy)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 06:07:55 -0500
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Help with convention game
In-Reply-To: <40673974.30676.1591B53@localhost>
References: <40673974.30676.1591B53@localhost>
Message-ID: <1080472080.2BADEBF3@r5.dngr.org>


On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 5:46am, Shaun Hately wrote that he's loking for 
large concentrations of fanart and movie images.

Artisticalley.org has thousands of pieces of fanart of random students 
in both the STUDENTS and the Witches or Wizards categories (they're 
listed right on the front page). Michael, Anthony, Marietta, Cho, Padma, 
etc, have all been drawn by fanartists and placed on AA.

Also, the-leaky-cauldron.org has a bunch of movie images and we're 
working to expand the gallery even now, so I can also ask behind the 
scenes if you need more than is up...


Heidi (not officially for fictionalley.org or Leaky, Inc. ;)



From HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com  Sun Mar 28 16:02:23 2004
From: HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com (HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 28 Mar 2004 16:02:23 -0000
Subject: Reminder - Weekly Chat 
Message-ID: <1080489743.127.70400.m7@yahoogroups.com>


We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Weekly Chat 

Date: Sunday, March 28, 2004 
Time: 11:00AM CST (GMT-06:00) 

Hi everyone! 

Don't forget, chat happens today, 11 am Pacific, 2 pm Eastern, 7
pm UK time. Chat times do not change for Daylight Saving/Summer
Time.  Chat generally goes on for about 5 hours, but can last as
long as people want it to last.

Go into any Yahoo chat room and type:  /join HP:1 

Hope to see you there! 

 





From entropymail at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 28 16:32:35 2004
From: entropymail at yahoo.com (entropymail)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:32:35 -0000
Subject: Fabula Rasa Fanfics?
Message-ID: <c46un3+id9d@eGroups.com>

Hi there! I was wondering if anyone has seen anything new from Fabula
Rasa lately? I was really enjoying her fanfics (the best, if you don't
mind slash), but I haven't seen anything new in the longest.  Anyone
know if she's still writing?  Thanks,

:: Entropy ::




From vicky07035 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 28 21:01:51 2004
From: vicky07035 at yahoo.com (vicky07035)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 21:01:51 -0000
Subject: A question??
Message-ID: <c47efv+100hc@eGroups.com>

Will there be another one later in the year. I will be away on those 
dates. Maybe one next year?
Thanks 
vicky




From dancingtai at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 28 23:45:59 2004
From: dancingtai at earthlink.net (Karen)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 23:45:59 -0000
Subject: Roleplayer Database
Message-ID: <c47o3n+palb@eGroups.com>

Hi everyone, 
Posting to announce the Roleplay Classifieds. It's a database that 
easily lets you search and find someone you think you'd actually like 
to roleplay with. 

It's divided into fandom categories as well as original. You can go 
through a list which states the category (slash, het, friendship, 
etc.) and pairings the RP-er is interested in. The lists contain 
roleplayer links that lead to a more detailed profile including the 
roleplayers' preferences in their own words. 

Anyone can reply to the posts, however, if you want to submit an ad 
you need to register. (it only asks for username, email and 
password). 

Hope you're interested and if you are, come advertise. =) 

Link to Roleplay classifieds: http://www.sweetcandy.us/rp/

Link to the guideline: http://www.sweetcandy.us/rp/guideline.html 

Karen




From drednort at alphalink.com.au  Mon Mar 29 07:13:37 2004
From: drednort at alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:13:37 +1000
Subject: [HPFGU-OTChatter] Help with convention game
In-Reply-To: <1080472080.2BADEBF3@r5.dngr.org>
References: <40673974.30676.1591B53@localhost>
Message-ID: <40685941.14665.3263FD@localhost>

On 28 Mar 2004 at 6:07, Heidi Tandy wrote:

> 
> On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 5:46am, Shaun Hately wrote that he's loking for 
> large concentrations of fanart and movie images.
> 
> Artisticalley.org has thousands of pieces of fanart of random students 
> in both the STUDENTS and the Witches or Wizards categories (they're 
> listed right on the front page). Michael, Anthony, Marietta, Cho, Padma, 
> etc, have all been drawn by fanartists and placed on AA.

Thank-you Heidi - Artisticalley is pretty much exactly what I was 
looking for!


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From tadicot at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 29 11:03:02 2004
From: tadicot at hotmail.com (tadi cot)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:03:02 +0000
Subject: Conference with HP content
Message-ID: <BAY2-F69aQp2yYbxrPE000253a4@hotmail.com>

Landscapes with Angels

Fantasy, Childrens Literature and the Spiritual Role of the Imagination

A conference of the G.K. Chesterton Institute for Faith & Culture and Seton 
Hall University

Oxford, 12 to 15 August 2004

Accommodation available in Christ Church   Lectures to be held in the Newman 
Room of the Catholic Chaplaincy

http://www.secondspring.co.uk/fantasy/conference.htm

Full delagate or day rates available.

I've heard a rumour that John Granger (author of The Hidden Key to Harry 
Potter) was going to be a speaker here, but they couldn't raise the money 
for his fare.  Those in the UK - would you have gone along if he had been?  
I certainly would. I think they might have got their money back in bookings!

Tadi

_________________________________________________________________
Find a cheaper internet access deal - choose one to suit you. 
http://www.msn.co.uk/internetaccess




From Ali at zymurgy.org  Mon Mar 29 16:31:53 2004
From: Ali at zymurgy.org (Ali)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:31:53 -0000
Subject: Magic is coming Home! Announcing Accio UK 2005
Message-ID: <c49j1p+h7lg@eGroups.com>

We are pleased to announce that our first conference will take place 
over the weekend of 29-31st July 2005 at Reading University, UK. 
Places are limited by the size of the venue, so early registration 
will be encouraged.

Accio 2005 will be a friendly event, bringing together adult Harry 
Potter fans to discuss all aspects of J.K. Rowling's Harry Potter 
books, in what we believe to be the first such conference in the UK. 
Planned events include presentations, panels, speeches, games, 
Quidditch, a banquet, and informal discussions into the small hours!

Those wishing to attend Accio 2005 should apply for full membership.

As well as attendance at the conference, full membership gives 
voting rights over the next committee and conference location. Fans 
who will be unable to attend the conference, but wish to be 
involved, should join as supporting members. Supporting membership 
gives access to a programme of events and a post conference write-
up, as well as voting rights. Membership fees will be non-refundable.

Further details, including key dates and fees, will be posted 
shortly. Meanwhile, if you are interested in volunteering for the 
conference please register at the Accio 2005 volunteer Yahoo Group: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hpukcon-volunteers.

Ali Hewison
Accio chair




From sophiamcl at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 29 21:26:25 2004
From: sophiamcl at hotmail.com (sophiamcl)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:26:25 -0000
Subject: Announcing Accio UK 2005/Lurking
In-Reply-To: <c49j1p+h7lg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c4a4a1+6bnk@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Ali" <Ali at z...> wrote:
> We are pleased to announce that our first conference will take 
place 
> over the weekend of 29-31st July 2005 at Reading University, UK. 
> Places are limited by the size of the venue, so early registration 
> will be encouraged.

Yaaaaahaaaaaahaaaaaaayyyyy! Thankyou! Only today I was pondering the 
probability of my being able to scrape together the funds for a trip 
to Salem next year, and it doesn't look so good, being a poor student 
and all, living in Sweden too...But Reading? That'll be a breeze! 
I'll be able to get to that one for sure! Whoooohoooo!

Now, I'm a lurker on this list, and not a very active lurker either. 
I'm usually over at the movie-list. Every once in a blue moon I get 
the urge to butt in, but with appearences so few and far between, 
should I reintroduce myself? Many of you probably post regularly here 
and know each other to an extent. Does it annoy you when lurkers show 
up unannounced and "anonymously" join the conversation?

Sophia (who just got her own computer!!!whooohooo! more chance of 
joining in now...)




From Ali at zymurgy.org  Mon Mar 29 21:30:09 2004
From: Ali at zymurgy.org (Ali)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:30:09 -0000
Subject: Magic is coming Home! Announcing Accio UK 2005
In-Reply-To: <c49j1p+h7lg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c4a4h2+rbum@eGroups.com>

I wrote:-

<<<Meanwhile, if you are interested in volunteering for the 
 conference please register at the Accio 2005 volunteer Yahoo Group: 

 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hpukcon-volunteers.>>>

Unfortunately, my fullstop crept into the url, the address should 
have been:


 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hpukcon-volunteers

My apologies.

Ali,

Going off to slam her ears in the oven door






From pulpficlet at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 29 18:32:10 2004
From: pulpficlet at yahoo.com (pulpficlet)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:32:10 -0000
Subject: Magic is coming Home! Announcing Accio UK 2005
In-Reply-To: <c49j1p+h7lg@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c49q3a+g4ah@eGroups.com>

I coudln't get the link to work.  Am I doing it wrong?

Paula
--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "Ali" <Ali at z...> wrote:
> We are pleased to announce that our first conference will take 
place 
> over the weekend of 29-31st July 2005 at Reading University, UK. 
> Places are limited by the size of the venue, so early registration 
> will be encouraged.
> 
> Accio 2005 will be a friendly event, bringing together adult Harry 
> Potter fans to discuss all aspects of J.K. Rowling's Harry Potter 
> books, in what we believe to be the first such conference in the 
UK. 
> Planned events include presentations, panels, speeches, games, 
> Quidditch, a banquet, and informal discussions into the small hours!
> 
> Those wishing to attend Accio 2005 should apply for full membership.
> 
> As well as attendance at the conference, full membership gives 
> voting rights over the next committee and conference location. Fans 
> who will be unable to attend the conference, but wish to be 
> involved, should join as supporting members. Supporting membership 
> gives access to a programme of events and a post conference write-
> up, as well as voting rights. Membership fees will be non-
refundable.
> 
> Further details, including key dates and fees, will be posted 
> shortly. Meanwhile, if you are interested in volunteering for the 
> conference please register at the Accio 2005 volunteer Yahoo Group: 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hpukcon-volunteers.
> 
> Ali Hewison
> Accio chair





From annemehr at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 30 03:12:37 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 03:12:37 -0000
Subject: Announcing Accio UK 2005/Lurking
In-Reply-To: <c4a4a1+6bnk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c4aoj5+99qn@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "sophiamcl" <sophiamcl at h...>
wrote:

> Yaaaaahaaaaaahaaaaaaayyyyy! Thankyou! Only today I was pondering the 
> probability of my being able to scrape together the funds for a trip 
> to Salem next year, and it doesn't look so good, being a poor student 
> and all, living in Sweden too...But Reading? That'll be a breeze! 
> I'll be able to get to that one for sure! Whoooohoooo!

Annemehr:
<<shares in the joy>>  That's great!  I know how you feel, because the
Salem one will be quite doable for me and my daughter!

Sophia: 
> Now, I'm a lurker on this list, and not a very active lurker either. 
> I'm usually over at the movie-list. Every once in a blue moon I get 
> the urge to butt in, but with appearences so few and far between, 
> should I reintroduce myself? Many of you probably post regularly here 
> and know each other to an extent. Does it annoy you when lurkers show 
> up unannounced and "anonymously" join the conversation?

Annemehr:
Of course it's not annoying!  That's what we came here for, to "talk"
to people!  :-)
> 
> Sophia (who just got her own computer!!!whooohooo! more chance of 
> joining in now...)

Annemehr
who will be looking forward to it then -- eventually, we can compare
our trips...





From joym999 at aol.com  Wed Mar 31 03:58:20 2004
From: joym999 at aol.com (joywitch_m_curmudgeon)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 03:58:20 -0000
Subject: Fun with Google
Message-ID: <c4dfks+8ah1@eGroups.com>

Ok, here's the background:  The Washington Post, my local daily 
newspaper (of which I am very fond), has a section called "Style" 
which contains movie, tv, and theatre listings and reviews, and also 
all sorts of off-beat, odd, and usually sarcastic articles.  And, 
they have a weekly contest.  This week's contest is to take a short 
English quotation, plug it into any one of the 5 languages in 
Google's translator, then take the resulting quote and translate it 
from that language back into English.  The aim is to find an 
interestingly-mutated quote.

So, I took the quote:

"Mr. and Mrs. Dursley, of number four, Privet Drive, were proud to 
say that they were perfectly normal, thank you very much."

and translated it into each of the 5 languages, and then translated 
it back, and here's what I got:

******************************************

English-Spanish-English
Mr. and Mrs. Dursley, of number four, impulsion of Privet, were proud 
to say that they were perfectly normal, thank for much to him.

English-French-English
Mr. and Mrs. Dursley, of the number four, ordering of Privet, were 
proud to say that they were perfectly normal, thank you very much.

English-Italian-English
Sig. and sig.ra the Dursley, of number four, drive of Privet, was 
fairs to say that they were perfectly normal, them ringraziano a lot.

English-Portuguese-English
Mr. and Mrs. Dursley, of number four, movement of Privet, were proud 
to say that he was perfectly normal, thank it very very.

English-German-English
Gentleman and Mrs Dursley, of No. four, drive Privet, were to be said 
proud, that they were perfectly normal, thank you very much.

*******************

My favorite is the Italian.  I suspect that the Italian translation 
program was written by Chico Marx.

Anyway, it's a lot of fun.  If you want to watch Google mangle your 
favorite quotation, just go to www.google.com, and choose "language 
tools."

--Joywitch




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 31 05:43:57 2004
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 05:43:57 -0000
Subject: Fun with Google
In-Reply-To: <c4dfks+8ah1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c4dlqt+3tht@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "joywitch_m_curmudgeon"
<joym999 at a...> wrote:
<big old snip> 
> Anyway, it's a lot of fun.  If you want to watch Google mangle your 
> favorite quotation, just go to www.google.com, and choose "language 
> tools."
> 
> --Joywitch

Thanks for the idea!  I played with "It is our choices, Harry, that
show us what we truly are, far more than our abilities."

English-German-English:
It is our elections, Harry, which show, what we is real, far more than
our abilities.

English-Spanish-English:
It is our options, Harry, that demonstrates far which we are truth,
more than our capacities.

English-French-English:
These is the choices, Harry, which show what are really us, much more
than our capacities.

English-French-German-English:
It is our choice, Harry, which shows, what us is real, very much more
than our capacities.

English-Italian-English:
It is our choices, Harry, than they show to us that what to align we
are, much more of our abilities.

English-Portugese-English:
It is our choices, Harry, who in shows them more what we are truily,
distant of the one than our abilities.

I was surprised that the English-French-German-English one was
definitely not the most garbled!

*************************************************************

Okay, now for something a little more tricky...

Mr. Moony presents his compliments to Professor Snape, and begs him to
keep his abnormally large nose out of other people's business.  Mr.
Prongs agrees with Mr. Moony, and would like to add that Professor
Snape is an ugly git.  Mr. Padfoot would like to register his
astonishment that an idiot like that ever became a professor.  Mr.
Wormtail bids Professor Snape good day, and advises him to wash his
hair, the slimeball.

'Cause of course, you know I couldn't pick just one!  ;-)

E-G-E:
Mr. Moony represents its radix complements professor Snape and asks
him to out hold its unnormal large nose from business of the people. 
Mr. ProngsIST in agreement with Mr. Moony and would like to add that
professor Snape an ugly is git.  Mr. Padfoot would like to be
astonishment register that an idiot like, who became at all a
professor.  Mr. Wormtail offers good day of professor Snape and
guesses/advises him, its hair, to wash slimeball.

E-S-E:
Mr. Moony presents/displays his praises to professor Snape, and he
requests to him to that he abnormally keeps its great nose outside the
business from people.  Mr. Prongs agrees with Mr. Moony, and wanted to
add that professor Snape is git ugly.  Mr. Padfoot wanted to place his
astonishment that an idiot has taste that professor always did.  Mr.
Wormtail the weather of professor Snape is a supply good, and it
advises to wash it the hair, slimeball.

E-F-E:
Mr. Moony presents his compliments at professor Snape, and requests it
to keep its abnormally large nose out of the businesses of others. 
Mr. Prongs agrees with Mr. Moony, and would like to add that professor
Snape is an ugly git.  Mr. Padfoot would like to express his
astonishment that an idiot like who ever became a professor.  Mr.
Wormtail offers the good day of professor Snape, and advises it to
wash the hair, the slimeball.

E-I-E:
The sig.  Moony introduces its compliments to professor the Snape and
the elemosina to abnormally maintain to its great nose from the
commerce of people.  The sig.  Prongs is of agreement with the sig. 
Moony and would want to add that professor the Snape is a git ugly. 
The sig.  Padfoot would want to record its astonishment that a idiot
it appreciate that has never become a university professor.  The sig.
 Wormtail makes an offer the good day of professor the Snape and it
recommends it to wash its hats, the slimeball.

E-P-E:
Mr. Moony presents its compliments to Snape professor, and begs to
keep it its nose abnormally great rejection of the business of the
person.  Mr. Prongs agrees to Mr. Moony, and would like to add that
Snape professor is one git ugly.  Mr. Padfoot would like to registar
its astonishment that one idiot likes that a professor always
changedded itself.  Mr. Wormtail offers the good day of Snape
professor, and recommends to wash it its hair, slimeball.

I particularly like the E-S-E observation of Mr. Prongs that ol'
Snapey is "git ugly." 

Annemehr
too sleepy to write any more





From udderpd at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar 31 08:09:15 2004
From: udderpd at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?udder=5Fpen=5Fdragon?=)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:09:15 +0100 (BST)
Subject: What has happened to PumpkinPie?
In-Reply-To: <c4dfks+8ah1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20040331080915.43954.qmail@web25109.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>


Has anybody any idea what has happened to pumpkinpie.org it seems to have disappeared somewhere?

Bye  Rincewind

There is no known cure for stupidity


		
---------------------------------
 WIN FREE WORLDWIDE FLIGHTS - nominate a cafe in the Yahoo! Mail Internet Cafe Awards

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From abigailnus at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 31 11:33:57 2004
From: abigailnus at yahoo.com (abigailnus)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:33:57 -0000
Subject: Fun with Google
In-Reply-To: <c4dfks+8ah1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c4eab5+l6rl@eGroups.com>

We had this very assignment last week in Introductin to Natural 
Language Processing.  Somehow, it just never occurred to me to use 
something from Harry Potter.  I picked this rather odd sentence from 
William Gibson's Pattern Recognition, which I was reading at the 
time (highly recommended, by the way):

"He took a duck in the face at two hundred and fifty knots."

(Referring to an airline pilot who collided with a duck during 
takeoff.)

I only did English-French-English, and got:

"It took a duck in the face to two hundred and fifty nodes."

Not very exciting.  I guess I should have gone the Harry Potter 
route.

Abigail




From alshainofthenorth at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar 31 13:56:01 2004
From: alshainofthenorth at yahoo.co.uk (alshainofthenorth)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:56:01 -0000
Subject: Fabula Rasa Fanfics?
In-Reply-To: <c46un3+id9d@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c4eilh+iaue@eGroups.com>

--- In HPFGU-OTChatter at yahoogroups.com, "entropymail" 
<entropymail at y...> wrote:
> Hi there! I was wondering if anyone has seen anything new from 
Fabula
> Rasa lately? I was really enjoying her fanfics (the best, if you 
don't
> mind slash), but I haven't seen anything new in the longest.  Anyone
> know if she's still writing?  Thanks,
> 
> :: Entropy ::

Oh, if I only knew myself. Dolo Delectare was the last I read. As it 
is, I re-read Repechage, Misericorde and Rat's Alley and try to get 
my own Severus/Sirius plotline to get in shape before JKR goes and 
polishes off Severus as well.

So, Entropy, can I ask about your favourite Fabula Rasa fic?

Alshain

   




From mphunt at sprintmail.com  Wed Mar 31 14:03:57 2004
From: mphunt at sprintmail.com (Tracy Hunt)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:03:57 -0000
Subject: Fun with Google
In-Reply-To: <c4dfks+8ah1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c4ej4d+uth3@eGroups.com>

Because I can rarely pass on a good diversion, I tried one of my 
favorites from GoF:

"I'm not putting them on," said old Archie in indignation.  "I like a 
healthy breeze 'round my privates, thanks."

and got:

English - German - English:
I'm emergency putting them on, said old archie in indignation.  I 
like A healthy breeze ' round my private, thanks.

English - French - English:
I do not put them above, the aforementioned old archie in 
indignation.  I like a healthy breeze ' around my privates, thank you.

English - Spanish - English:
"I am not putting them ignited," old archie said in the 
indignation.  "I have taste of a breeze heals ' around my privates, 
thanks."

English - Portuguese - English:
"I am not putting them on," said old archie in indignation.  "I taste 
of a healthful breeze ' in return of mine privates, gratefulness."

English - Italian - English:
"I am not putting them over," old archie said in the indignation.  "I 
appreciate one healthy breeze ' around to mine privates, thankses."


Tcy (giggling at these - but still laughing at "git ugly")




From entropymail at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 31 16:17:18 2004
From: entropymail at yahoo.com (entropymail)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:17:18 -0000
Subject: Fabula Rasa Fanfics?
In-Reply-To: <c4eilh+iaue@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c4eque+lc0r@eGroups.com>


> Oh, if I only knew myself. Dolo Delectare was the last I read. As it 
> is, I re-read Repechage, Misericorde and Rat's Alley and try to get 
> my own Severus/Sirius plotline to get in shape before JKR goes and 
> polishes off Severus as well.
> 
> So, Entropy, can I ask about your favourite Fabula Rasa fic?
> 
> Alshain

Gosh... they're all good! I guess my favorite is "Rat's Alley", but
the one I most recently read is "Stone Cold Sober".  Really long but
really wonderful.  

My all-time favorite fic, though, is "Death Eaters at the Malfoy
Estate". It's by Grindylowe, not by Fabula Rasa, and very different in
style.  It's become a classic.  Very dark, very very funny.

:: Entropy ::




From coriolan at worldnet.att.net  Wed Mar 31 17:33:37 2004
From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:33:37 -0000
Subject: Fun with Google
In-Reply-To: <c4dfks+8ah1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <c4evdh+he3g@eGroups.com>

OK, I'll bite: here's Snape's great speech from Book, which shows 
that he has obviously elaborated beer the glory, as he teaches his 
short dunderheads.

"As there is little foolish wand-waving here, many of you will hardly 
believe this is magic. I don't expect you will really understand the 
beauty of the softly simmering cauldron with its shimmering fumes, 
the delicate power of liquids that creep through human veins, 
bewitching the mind, ensnaring the senses.... I can teach you how to 
bottle fame, brew glory, even stopper death -- if you aren't as big a 
bunch of dunderheads as I usually have to teach."

    - English

Since it wind-wavelike it moves little stupid here gives many of you 
hardly believe that this is magic.  I do not expect that you really 
creep the beauty softly simmering of the large boiler with its 
shimmering steams, which understand sensitive energy of the liquids 
those by human veins and the understanding bewitching and intercept 
the directions....,  I can teach to you that like one brews fame, you 
fame, even stopper death fills up -- if you not a bundle dunderheads 
are so large, as I to normally inform must.

-	German/English


Then there is absurd varita-shaking little here, many of you will 
think hardly that this is magician.  I do not hope that you really 
smoothly understand the beauty of the boiler simmering with your 
smoke shimmering, the delicate energy of the liquids that crawls 
through the human veins, bewitching the mind, entrampando the 
senses....  I can teach to him that how to bottle fame, elaborates 
beer the glory, even death of the cork -- if you are not so great a 
handful of dunderheads as I must teach generally.

-	Spanish/English

Because there is rod-to undulate not very idiotic here, good number 
among you to hardly believe that it is magic.  I do not envisage that 
you will gently include/understand really the beauty of the cauldron 
simmering with its vapor shimmering, the significant power of the 
liquids which crawls by the human veins, bewitching the spirit, 
catching the directions....  I then to teach you that how to put the 
fame out of bottle, brew glory, even the death of block -- if you are 
not as tall a group of dunderheads as I usually must teach.

     - French/English


Poich? is little foolish wand-ondeggiamento here, many of you as soon 
as they will believe that this is magical.  I do not preview that 
really you softly understand the beauty of the cauldron simmering 
with the relati to you vapors shimmering, the fragile feeding of the 
liquids that crawl through the human veins, bewitching the mind, 
catching the senses....  I can teach to you that like bottling the 
reputation, ferments the glory, even died of the stopper -- if you 
are not large a bunch of dunderheads as I must usually teach.

      - Italian/English 


Because it has wand-to wave foolish little here, many of you will 
believe badly that this is magical.  I do not wait that you simmering 
with its emanations will really understand the beauty of cauldron 
soft shimmering, the delicate power of the liquids that human beings 
track down through the veins, bewitching the mind, enleando the 
directions....  I can teach to it that as bottle the fame, brew 
glory, exactly death of the stopper -- you a group of dunderheads 
will not be so great as I generally have that to teach.

     - Portuguese/English


I'm impressed that the word "dunderheads" survived every attempt to 
translate it away ? ah, insults, the universal language
.